WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 200

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<v Speaker 1>Also media.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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<v Speaker 2>you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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<v Speaker 2>of the week that just happened is here in one

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<v Speaker 2>convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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<v Speaker 2>listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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<v Speaker 2>you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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<v Speaker 2>there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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<v Speaker 2>you can make your own decisions. Welcome back to it

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<v Speaker 2>could happen here, a podcast about it happening here, it

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<v Speaker 2>in this case being an incredibly political shooting, and the

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<v Speaker 2>thing that's happening Garrison and I wading through a river

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<v Speaker 2>of disinformation and fever dreams to try and pull out

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<v Speaker 2>some degree of truth. And what is a very truth

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<v Speaker 2>light environment right now? Garrison, how are you doing?

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<v Speaker 3>Truth fluid? Certainly truth fluid.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a better way to phrase it.

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<v Speaker 3>I have a growing headache that I think grows larger

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<v Speaker 3>by the second.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, will not cease.

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<v Speaker 3>I guess you should first discuss how the shooter has

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<v Speaker 3>been identified and arrested. Yes, we are recording this Friday

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<v Speaker 3>evening for context.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, early evening there will be more information on the

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<v Speaker 2>shooter and on the shooting. By the time you listen

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<v Speaker 2>to this, we may include an update at the end,

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<v Speaker 2>but we will be talking about stuff that is timeless,

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<v Speaker 2>as in things that we know are false or true

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<v Speaker 2>at the moment, and just generally our ethics on when

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<v Speaker 2>do we feel confident saying a shooting or other kind

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<v Speaker 2>of attack was left wing or right wing or something else,

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<v Speaker 2>like when do we feel confident in making those judgments

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<v Speaker 2>and why? Because those are really relevant topics and a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people just kind of go with what seems

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<v Speaker 2>right based on the flow of info there hearing, which

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<v Speaker 2>is how disinformation spreads. So the last time we would

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<v Speaker 2>have talked about this would be the ed episode that

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<v Speaker 2>came out. What was that Friday, Yeah, Thursday night, Friday morning,

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<v Speaker 2>And basically right after we covered that early in the

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<v Speaker 2>morning on Friday, President Trump was doing a media appearance

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<v Speaker 2>on Fox News and he was the person who announced

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<v Speaker 2>that they had a suspect in custody. Who were pretty

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<v Speaker 2>sure was it Obviously, since the FBI had given the

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<v Speaker 2>wrong accused the wrong person at least twice of doing this,

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<v Speaker 2>people weren't sure if that meant anything. But it did

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<v Speaker 2>come out very soon after that that a young man

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<v Speaker 2>had essentially confessed to his father, who negotiated him turning

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<v Speaker 2>himself into the authorities. This young man is Tyler Robinson.

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<v Speaker 2>He was born and raised in Utah. I think, as

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<v Speaker 2>far as we know, I woke up in the middle

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<v Speaker 2>of the night, right as his name came out. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know why. It was weird, and so I just

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<v Speaker 2>immediately started looking at the social media for his family,

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<v Speaker 2>because I was able to find his mom and his

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<v Speaker 2>dad's Facebook.

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<v Speaker 3>The Lord works in mysterious ways.

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<v Speaker 2>So I can tell you, and this is something you'll

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<v Speaker 2>find in the reporting. He came from a pretty normal

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<v Speaker 2>Utah family, politically conservative. That's based on articles I've seen,

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<v Speaker 2>we interviewing people who know the family, and just based

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<v Speaker 2>on publicly available information.

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<v Speaker 3>Grunt style T shirt wearing father right.

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<v Speaker 2>He dressed as Donald Trump. It's seemingly in a positive

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<v Speaker 2>fashion for Halloween one year. His family were pretty a

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<v Speaker 2>very normal Utah family. I found posts where they took

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<v Speaker 2>pictures of them camping with their RVs, going out hunting.

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<v Speaker 2>He was hunting from a young age. He had access

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<v Speaker 2>to firearms from a young age, including assault style weapons

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<v Speaker 2>from a young age. Again, very common for Utah, and yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>his family hunted and fished, and he seems to have

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<v Speaker 2>been a very normal kid in that regard. Kind of

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<v Speaker 2>the thing that I found when I was doing my

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<v Speaker 2>first dive into this that I thought was worthwhile, and

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<v Speaker 2>the one thing that I really pulled out of that

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<v Speaker 2>to share with people was in twenty eighteen, he dressed

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<v Speaker 2>as a meme for Halloween, and the specific meme was

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<v Speaker 2>this meme that is not inherently political, but is one

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<v Speaker 2>that this group of far right people who follow a

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<v Speaker 2>guy named Nick Fuint has called the groupers like, which

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't mean that he was signaling to that, because again,

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<v Speaker 2>like all of this stuff, it's not just the gropers

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<v Speaker 2>who like this squatting slav guy meme. That's what he

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<v Speaker 2>dressed as. If you've seen this meme of like the

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<v Speaker 2>squatting Slavic guy in a tracksuit with a cigarette and

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<v Speaker 2>a beer, he dressed like that for Halloween. There's a

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<v Speaker 2>groper version of that squatting slav guy.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, no, there's a Pepe version.

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<v Speaker 2>You're right, You're right, I need to be precise. There's

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<v Speaker 2>a Pepe version, and it is a meme that you

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<v Speaker 2>can find shared in groper spaces, which again does not

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<v Speaker 2>mean it's a groper meme, and I've seen that mistakenly

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<v Speaker 2>and really tried to push back on This does not

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<v Speaker 2>mean he definitely was, but it doesn't mean that he was.

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<v Speaker 2>He was a very online kid, and he traveled in

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<v Speaker 2>spaces where he would have had access and would have

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<v Speaker 2>been aware of grouper's and that would have been one

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<v Speaker 2>chunk of the online fever swamps that he would have

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<v Speaker 2>been connected to and he would have had access to.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't yet know at the time we're recording this

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<v Speaker 2>what he believed or what his motivation was. The rething

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<v Speaker 2>I thought was relevant to publisher this is that, like, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>we are dealing with an extremely online weirdo.

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<v Speaker 3>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>And immediately after that it came out exactly what was

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<v Speaker 2>carved onto the bullets that he had shot. And this

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<v Speaker 2>was relevant in part because yesterday, the first day of

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<v Speaker 2>news that we had about the bullets, the immediate claim

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<v Speaker 2>that was leaked to Stephen Crowder through a source of

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<v Speaker 2>his in the ATF was that transgender symbols had been

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<v Speaker 2>carved onto the bullets. That was not accurate. If you

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<v Speaker 2>want some levity from this whole scene, listening to the sheriff,

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<v Speaker 2>Oh God giving the press conference, read the things he

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<v Speaker 2>carved onto these bullets.

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<v Speaker 3>We should just include some of those clips here.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll put it in here.

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<v Speaker 4>Inscriptions on a fired casing read notices bulge's capital owo,

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<v Speaker 4>what's this question mark. Inscriptions on the three unfired casings

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<v Speaker 4>read hey fascist, exclamation point, catch exclamation point, up arrow symbol,

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<v Speaker 4>right arrow and symbol, and three down arrow symbols. A

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<v Speaker 4>second unfired casing red, oh belichow, belichow, belichow chow chow.

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<v Speaker 4>And a third on fired casing red. If you read this,

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<v Speaker 4>you are gay, lmao.

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<v Speaker 2>Just absolutely outstanding stuff. I mean, hearing a law enforcement

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<v Speaker 2>officer say that is beautiful. It reminds me of having

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<v Speaker 2>to explain bitcoin to all of the elderly detectives in

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<v Speaker 2>West LA when I got a death threat against me.

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<v Speaker 2>But this is like extremely online gamer nonsense, gay right.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, average white male over the online gamer at this point,

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<v Speaker 3>that's what it looks like. It could have developed in

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<v Speaker 3>a far right direction, could be developed in a far

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<v Speaker 3>left direction. Could be an ironic centrist. It could be

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<v Speaker 3>any number of things. There's no single clear indication.

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<v Speaker 2>Could be someone who doesn't map easily onto any of

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<v Speaker 2>these traditional political compasses, Like, we don't know at this point.

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<v Speaker 2>And what's kind of important that and the reason what

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<v Speaker 2>I thought was really important to get out to people

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<v Speaker 2>is that there will always be terrorist attacks from a

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<v Speaker 2>wh It's never even if you want it to just

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<v Speaker 2>be right wingers. It's never just right wingers who do

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<v Speaker 2>domestic terrorism. That's never been the case, and it never

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<v Speaker 2>will be the case. And one of the things that

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<v Speaker 2>we're seeing and we will increasingly see, is that even

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<v Speaker 2>while there will be varying political motivations behind different attacks,

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<v Speaker 2>the language that people who are carrying out attacks like

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<v Speaker 2>this use is all kind of coming to a point together. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>They all have more in common with the way they message.

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<v Speaker 2>The christ Church shooter and this kid both found the

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<v Speaker 2>need to put memes onto the weapons they were using.

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<v Speaker 3>Inscribe the internet exactly onto tools of killing, mechanisms of death.

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<v Speaker 2>But literally inscribing the Internet onto tools of death. That

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<v Speaker 2>is a thing both of them did. Yeah, maybe for

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<v Speaker 2>wildly different reasons. Maybe this guy was coming from a

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<v Speaker 2>left wing perspective, right, we just don't know.

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<v Speaker 3>But this is where it's all coalescing around.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think that is really important to note, right,

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<v Speaker 2>the way that that happens. Now again, we wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>talk about the thing that we can definitely say is disinformation.

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<v Speaker 2>And one of the first counters to the whole transgender

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<v Speaker 2>symbols carved onto bullets that came out was people putting

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<v Speaker 2>up pictures of there's a Turkish manufacturer called Turan and

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<v Speaker 2>they make bullets and their logo on the back of

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<v Speaker 2>a bullet. If you're not a gun person, every bullet

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<v Speaker 2>has the logo of the manufacturer and the name of

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<v Speaker 2>the caliber stamped onto the back, right, I mean, just

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<v Speaker 2>for basic safety reasons, right, or nearly every bullet twenty

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<v Speaker 2>two is a little too small. But like if you've

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<v Speaker 2>got like a round a nine millimeter or around a

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<v Speaker 2>five five six or around a thirty at six, which

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<v Speaker 2>was the caliber he used, apparently on the back of it,

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<v Speaker 2>you'll see the name of the manufacturer and then the

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<v Speaker 2>caliber stamped in there, right, and so on. The back

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<v Speaker 2>of Turan bullets is stamped tr in. And so people

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<v Speaker 2>started posting online this must be why they thought what

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<v Speaker 2>they thought was transgender, that like they saw a Turan

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<v Speaker 2>bullet and assumed it was trans and We know that

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't the case because this was a thirty out six

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<v Speaker 2>and Taran does not make thirty out six ammunition. We

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<v Speaker 2>also know this was the case because they have now

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<v Speaker 2>come out and said what was written on the bullet

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<v Speaker 2>and what was mistaken for transgender air routs and the

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<v Speaker 2>thing that was mistaken for transgender arrows was a reference

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<v Speaker 2>to the video game hell Divers.

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<v Speaker 3>A fucking hell Divers meme. Yes again, very gamer online kid.

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<v Speaker 3>Side note, it's not completely clear which bullet casing was

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<v Speaker 3>attributed to transgender ideology. It could be an interpretation of

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<v Speaker 3>the arrows, or it could be the notices bulge oh

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<v Speaker 3>woe casing and on that note, notices bulge oh Woe

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<v Speaker 3>is not a groper meme. It's a meme making fun

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<v Speaker 3>of furry sex role playing, which predates the existence of

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<v Speaker 3>gropers by years, and as a meme has since been

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<v Speaker 3>reclaimed by furries and trans shit posters online or trans

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<v Speaker 3>only fans creators, or just trans people in general on

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<v Speaker 3>the Internet, many of which are also furries. But now

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<v Speaker 3>we have various types of opposing or overlapping groups of

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<v Speaker 3>people who use this meme online. It's not a right

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<v Speaker 3>wing meme just making fun of furries. It is also

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<v Speaker 3>a meme used by people on the left and furries

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<v Speaker 3>on the left, and probably furries on the right too,

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<v Speaker 3>and non furries. It's just a general internet meme. It's

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<v Speaker 3>a Reddit tiar joke. Now, I will say the hell

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<v Speaker 3>Diver's meme also gives us kind of our not a

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<v Speaker 3>clear look, but a look at a possible political motivation. Now,

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<v Speaker 3>it could be ironic in use, it could be just

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<v Speaker 3>referential in use. But the full hell Diver's referenced bullet

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<v Speaker 3>reads hey fascist catch, followed by the hell Diver's dpad

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<v Speaker 3>input for the five hundred kilogram bomb right, which is

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<v Speaker 3>the arrows.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the down arrows.

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<v Speaker 3>I think up arrow side arrow, down down down arrow,

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<v Speaker 3>which some ADS agent or someone initially thought could have

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<v Speaker 3>been a reference to the transgender symbol or the three

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<v Speaker 3>arrows symbol. Coupled with the hey fascist section of that reference.

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<v Speaker 3>The hell Diver's video game does used fascist as a term,

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<v Speaker 3>but this also could be a more general political reference,

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<v Speaker 3>either ironic or sincere. By referring to Charlie Kirk as

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<v Speaker 3>a fascist. We do not know the actual and intentionality

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<v Speaker 3>behind this reference. Yet One thing that's possibly tied it

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<v Speaker 3>to anti fascism is that another bullet reads bella Chow,

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<v Speaker 3>bella Chow, Chow Chow, misspelling bella Chow, which is a

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<v Speaker 3>popular anti fascist anthem, though the song has more recently

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<v Speaker 3>also been used by groipers and fans of Hearts of

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<v Speaker 3>Iron four, a diverse political budge. One could say we

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<v Speaker 3>have talked about bella Chow on this show before. In fact,

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<v Speaker 3>we've used bella Chow on multiple cool Zone media shows.

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<v Speaker 3>It was originally an Italian anti fascist song that has

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<v Speaker 3>since been adopted by anarchists and anti fascists all around

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<v Speaker 3>the globe. I've heard Bellachow get played on loudspeakers countless

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<v Speaker 3>times at anti fascist events on the West Coast as

0:11:56.960 --> 0:12:00.800
<v Speaker 3>well as anarchist events on the East Coast. Though the

0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:03.360
<v Speaker 3>song has since gained a whole other life through pop

0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:09.760
<v Speaker 3>culture popularization, with EDM and like dubstep style remixes going viral.

0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:13.560
<v Speaker 3>Most normi's probably first heard it on the Netflix show

0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:17.360
<v Speaker 3>Money Heist and has been adopted into gamer culture via

0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:21.559
<v Speaker 3>its use in Far Cry six and Hearts of Iron four. Again.

0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:25.040
<v Speaker 2>Could be an anti fascist reference, could be video game shit,

0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:29.200
<v Speaker 2>could be graper shit. There's just not enough to say

0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:30.360
<v Speaker 2>at this point.

0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:35.280
<v Speaker 3>Or it could be could be a centrist, a political

0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:40.280
<v Speaker 3>hodgepodge of that has resulted in this nihilistic outburst of violence,

0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:43.880
<v Speaker 3>similar to some of these like TCC school shootings. Yeah,

0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:46.120
<v Speaker 3>we don't know, but there's currently a lot of people

0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:48.880
<v Speaker 3>on the right who thinks it's an ANTIFA super soldier leftist,

0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:51.280
<v Speaker 3>a lot of people on the left who think this

0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:55.360
<v Speaker 3>is a Nick Fuentes piled groper. And either of those

0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:58.560
<v Speaker 3>could be true, but neither could be true. It could

0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:02.959
<v Speaker 3>be a much weirder third. We don't have direct evidence

0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:05.560
<v Speaker 3>to support a full reading of either of those things yet.

0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:08.800
<v Speaker 2>And this is when I have seen people get kind

0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:12.040
<v Speaker 2>of heated about being corrected on particularly the bullet thing.

0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:15.760
<v Speaker 2>And I think the reason why is that it seems

0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:18.600
<v Speaker 2>it seems like such a smoking gotcha. Of course they'd

0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.400
<v Speaker 2>be this stupid you really want it to be true.

0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:24.079
<v Speaker 2>And it's when you feel like that about a case

0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:26.920
<v Speaker 2>like this, about an attack like this, that like, oh,

0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:29.640
<v Speaker 2>I really want this to be true. It would be

0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.520
<v Speaker 2>really satisfying if this was the thing that had happened.

0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:36.720
<v Speaker 2>That you need to be most hesitant to embrace that,

0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:40.520
<v Speaker 2>right I think that's that's what I'd say.

0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:43.160
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, if it's too good to be true or it

0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:46.199
<v Speaker 3>feels too convenient, you should introspect greatly.

0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:49.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Robert and Garrison will be right back. But first

0:13:49.559 --> 0:14:02.360
<v Speaker 2>here's some ads and we're back.

0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:05.640
<v Speaker 3>There's been other things that is kind of influencing this

0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:10.960
<v Speaker 3>political uncertainty. A reporter for the Young Turks only the

0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:17.439
<v Speaker 3>most reparatable news outlet, has claimed on Twitter on Friday afternoon. Quote,

0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.120
<v Speaker 3>according to Utah officials and police interviews with his family,

0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:24.880
<v Speaker 3>Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough.

0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:29.120
<v Speaker 3>Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes. G O piers are now

0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:33.080
<v Speaker 3>scrubbing ex posts about DEM's faster than doj eRASS Trump's

0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:38.760
<v Speaker 3>name from in Epstein files. Unquote. Yeah, this claim from

0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:42.440
<v Speaker 3>David Schuster the report of the Young Turks unsubstantiated. Yes,

0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:46.120
<v Speaker 3>but it's being spread as as exact fact, and it

0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:50.560
<v Speaker 3>seems like this claim is most likely misquoting and editorializing

0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:54.080
<v Speaker 3>from a statement a family member gave to police, which

0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:57.360
<v Speaker 3>has been described by the governor as a family member

0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:03.040
<v Speaker 3>and the shooter discussing Charlie Kirk's upcoming visit to UVU campus.

0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:07.040
<v Speaker 3>They talked about why they didn't like him and viewpoints

0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:10.360
<v Speaker 3>he held. The family member also stated Kirk was full

0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:14.400
<v Speaker 3>of hate and spreading hate unquote, So that has been

0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:17.920
<v Speaker 3>altered and shifted and interpreted in a lot of different

0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:21.240
<v Speaker 3>ways to say that the shooter stated Kirk was full

0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:23.040
<v Speaker 3>of hate and spreading hate, even though that's not what

0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:28.440
<v Speaker 3>this interview segment necessarily means. Just that quote unquote, they

0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:32.760
<v Speaker 3>meaning the family member and the shooter didn't like Kirk,

0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:35.920
<v Speaker 3>And that's really all you can extrapolate from that piece

0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:39.960
<v Speaker 3>of this police statement. But it's been spreading editorialized to

0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:44.240
<v Speaker 3>me in a wild collection of different things. Yeah, including

0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.600
<v Speaker 3>by people on the right who are interpreting this statement

0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:49.520
<v Speaker 3>as evidence that the shooter has said that Kirk was

0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:52.440
<v Speaker 3>spreading hate, even though that's not actually clear from this

0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:56.560
<v Speaker 3>interview either. No, it says the family member stated Charlie

0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.760
<v Speaker 3>Kirk was full of hate and spreading hate, not the shooter.

0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.720
<v Speaker 2>And likewise, one of the things I'm seeing spread a

0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:07.120
<v Speaker 2>lot is a claimed voter registration for Robinson.

0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:08.720
<v Speaker 3>A Tyler Robinson in Utah.

0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:10.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, again, there's a lot of them, a.

0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:12.960
<v Speaker 3>Lot of Tyler Robinsonson in Utah.

0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.880
<v Speaker 2>The one that is spreading the most, has a voter

0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.400
<v Speaker 2>registration date of one to one two thousand and one,

0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:19.800
<v Speaker 2>which he just simply couldn't have. Now that said, people

0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:22.280
<v Speaker 2>pointed out that Utah's voter registration shit is bad, and

0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:24.280
<v Speaker 2>this does seem like a placeholder that someone put in.

0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:27.080
<v Speaker 2>But also the county's not right because he didn't live

0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:29.800
<v Speaker 2>in Lehigh, Utah, and that's where this is listed for.

0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:32.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm not saying this guy definitely wasn't. He may have

0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:34.880
<v Speaker 2>been a registered Republican, but it looks like we don't

0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:38.600
<v Speaker 2>have the information to say that yet. Likewise, there's an

0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:42.200
<v Speaker 2>article that was published recently in The Guardian where they

0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:43.640
<v Speaker 2>talked to someone who was a friend of his in

0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:45.160
<v Speaker 2>high school who said that he was like the only

0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:47.960
<v Speaker 2>leftist in a family of Republicans and was angry about it.

0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:52.240
<v Speaker 3>The exact quote was that Robinson was quote pretty left

0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:55.200
<v Speaker 3>on everything, the only member of his family that was

0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:58.160
<v Speaker 3>really leftist. The rest of his family was very hard

0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:01.800
<v Speaker 3>Republican yep. And that Robinson would quote always just be

0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.320
<v Speaker 3>renting and arguing about them.

0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:08.399
<v Speaker 2>And it does look CNN is saying that they have

0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:14.480
<v Speaker 2>found Tyler Robbinson's actual voter registration data, and CNN says

0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:17.240
<v Speaker 2>he's registered as unaffiliated with a political party and is

0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:19.399
<v Speaker 2>listed as an active, which means he has not voted

0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.480
<v Speaker 2>in either of the two last general elections. Sure, so again,

0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:24.919
<v Speaker 2>there's just nothing clear we can.

0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:28.520
<v Speaker 3>Say, right, Yeah, it's hard to take both this young

0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:32.760
<v Speaker 3>Turks reporter and a high school friend from four years ago.

0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:37.080
<v Speaker 3>Not great sources for someone's current political outlook, absolutely not

0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:41.040
<v Speaker 3>and contradictory. So it's really really unclear. Also, this is

0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:43.879
<v Speaker 3>just one friend. You would want more than one source

0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:46.879
<v Speaker 3>to substantiate this claim. And perhaps by Sunday night, when

0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:50.080
<v Speaker 3>this airs, there will will be more information. Quick update

0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:54.560
<v Speaker 3>on this. Literally minutes after Robert and I recorded, the

0:17:54.600 --> 0:18:00.439
<v Speaker 3>Guardian retracted those quotes from the shooter's alleged high school estimate,

0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:05.520
<v Speaker 3>which described the shooter as a leftist. The source contacted

0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:08.760
<v Speaker 3>the Guardian again and said that they could not accurately

0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:12.520
<v Speaker 3>remember the details of their relationship in high school. So

0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:16.320
<v Speaker 3>the Guardian has pulled those quotes. But certainly right now,

0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:20.359
<v Speaker 3>the way people have latched on to narratives to satisfy

0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:23.600
<v Speaker 3>the current emotional turmoil that people are in because of

0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:26.800
<v Speaker 3>the hyper reality around this shooting and the possible consequences

0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:29.920
<v Speaker 3>it could mean for the fate of this whole country.

0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.880
<v Speaker 3>I understand why people are quick to really hook their

0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:37.440
<v Speaker 3>version of reality onto these claims. Yes, but currently there

0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:39.360
<v Speaker 3>is no clear version of reality.

0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:42.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I just want to caution people if you

0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:46.239
<v Speaker 2>care about knowing reality yourself. And there's two different questions here, right,

0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:49.280
<v Speaker 2>what is useful, what is valuable, what like protects people?

0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:51.440
<v Speaker 2>And then what gets us closer to the truth. Right.

0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:54.479
<v Speaker 2>Part of why as soon as I found that photo

0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:58.080
<v Speaker 2>of him dressed as a meme for Halloween and recognize

0:18:58.119 --> 0:18:59.720
<v Speaker 2>the implications of it, I put it up there is

0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:01.800
<v Speaker 2>because I thought it was relevant that it said something

0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:06.679
<v Speaker 2>about his background, but also it got discussion and just

0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:09.359
<v Speaker 2>people bringing up how complicated this guy's background. Is it

0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:11.560
<v Speaker 2>a positive thing? Which was a got discussion away from

0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:16.639
<v Speaker 2>absolutely baseless allegations that this was a transgender terrorist attack

0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:17.960
<v Speaker 2>and all sorts, all the kind of shit that had

0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:20.520
<v Speaker 2>been spreading on the right, right, and that was valuable. However,

0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:22.760
<v Speaker 2>I've been really careful about not saying this guy is

0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:25.600
<v Speaker 2>a groy Berth, even though that sure would be convenient,

0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:27.760
<v Speaker 2>because again, at the time we're recording this. There's just

0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:30.560
<v Speaker 2>not that evidence. Every new fact that comes out about

0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:35.400
<v Speaker 2>this guy right now is wavering in this gray area

0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:39.240
<v Speaker 2>where you know, like I one of the other things

0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:44.040
<v Speaker 2>when I posted correcting the voter registration card, somebody posted like, okay,

0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:46.440
<v Speaker 2>but he donated to Trump's campaign. No, he did.

0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:46.560
<v Speaker 5>Not.

0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:49.159
<v Speaker 2>A different guy with his name donated to Donald Trump,

0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:52.119
<v Speaker 2>the Tyler Robinson, who is currently in custody for shooting

0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:56.280
<v Speaker 2>Charlie Kirk, has no record of federal election donations, per CNN. Right,

0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:58.960
<v Speaker 2>these are very convincing when you see them just sort

0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:02.280
<v Speaker 2>of sliding across your feed, and if you're not checking

0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:06.480
<v Speaker 2>up on every new thing you see, it feels like, obviously,

0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:08.680
<v Speaker 2>this guy's a right winger. Obviously he's a groper. I've

0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:11.000
<v Speaker 2>seen so many pieces of evidence when you actually haven't

0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:11.840
<v Speaker 2>seen any evidence at.

0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:14.200
<v Speaker 3>All, and even those two things can get compleated. Right,

0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:17.679
<v Speaker 3>Saying he's a groper is different than saying a right winger.

0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:21.600
<v Speaker 3>Right Like a groper is a very specific branch of

0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:27.080
<v Speaker 3>alt right slash far right community slash ideology revolving around

0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:30.639
<v Speaker 3>the America First streamer Nick Fuentes and a collection of

0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:34.399
<v Speaker 3>memes associated with this movement, which have historically beef with

0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:37.360
<v Speaker 3>Charlie Kirk for not being sufficiently to the right as

0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:40.639
<v Speaker 3>some more openly white premisest neo Nazis have been. This

0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:44.840
<v Speaker 3>beef between Fuentes and Kirk was largely dissolved after Kirk

0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:47.560
<v Speaker 3>started adopting more and more far I believes, and adopted

0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:51.040
<v Speaker 3>the great Replacement theory, which settled down the quote unquote

0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:53.680
<v Speaker 3>Groper war, which many people are assuming that this shooting

0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:56.280
<v Speaker 3>is a part of, with some groper Nick Fuentes fan

0:20:56.760 --> 0:21:00.200
<v Speaker 3>killing Charlie Kirk, possibly as a legitimate part of the

0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:03.119
<v Speaker 3>quote unquote Graper war, but also maybe just has like

0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.879
<v Speaker 3>an ironic mimetic act. So when you say Graper, that

0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:09.760
<v Speaker 3>should refer to a very specific thing, not necessarily just

0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:13.160
<v Speaker 3>this guy used right wing memes or these memes aren't

0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:13.880
<v Speaker 3>even right wing, but.

0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:17.360
<v Speaker 2>Like, no, it could be, but they're not inherently This.

0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:20.959
<v Speaker 3>Man could be, but they're not inherently nor are they

0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:23.960
<v Speaker 3>really the main use of this saying Haha, if you

0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:27.600
<v Speaker 3>read this, you are gay, could just be an average

0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:30.959
<v Speaker 3>overly online male right or on the internet. A lot

0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:32.600
<v Speaker 3>of people talk like that. A lot of gay people

0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:34.640
<v Speaker 3>talk like that. A lot of fashions people talk about

0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:35.040
<v Speaker 3>that is.

0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:39.320
<v Speaker 2>This homophobia or a twenty year old Right, it could

0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:42.080
<v Speaker 2>be either or Yeah, And we don't need to just

0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:46.360
<v Speaker 2>jump to one specific thing to build a singular narrative

0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:49.320
<v Speaker 2>when a fluid situation is still rapidly unfolding.

0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:49.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:52.679
<v Speaker 2>Not if again, you want to feel like and you

0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:56.320
<v Speaker 2>want to really be better than the other side, who

0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:58.120
<v Speaker 2>don't give a shit about the truth, who just care

0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:00.480
<v Speaker 2>about what's convenient and how many people they can get

0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:04.359
<v Speaker 2>to believe a convenient fact. Right, If you don't want

0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:07.280
<v Speaker 2>to be that kind of person, if you think that's bad,

0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:09.840
<v Speaker 2>and I do, and you do, and we all do

0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:12.760
<v Speaker 2>here at cool Zone, then you do kind of it

0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:15.560
<v Speaker 2>to yourself to care about stuff like this, even if

0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:20.040
<v Speaker 2>it's less convenient. By the way, if you're not an investigator,

0:22:20.040 --> 0:22:22.560
<v Speaker 2>you don't have to be delving into all this. It's

0:22:22.640 --> 0:22:25.000
<v Speaker 2>enough to just know the fact that I saw something

0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:27.760
<v Speaker 2>that looked like evidence this guy donated to a campaign.

0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:29.720
<v Speaker 2>Do I know that that's him? Do I absolutely know

0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:32.240
<v Speaker 2>that's him? Because it's possible multiple people have the same

0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:34.000
<v Speaker 2>name and some of them may have made a donation

0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:38.879
<v Speaker 2>or not. Right, don't just pash your eyes over stuff

0:22:38.920 --> 0:22:41.040
<v Speaker 2>like this and be like, all right, I've done all

0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:45.160
<v Speaker 2>I need to do, but do purchase from these advertisers

0:22:55.520 --> 0:22:56.399
<v Speaker 2>and we're back.

0:22:57.440 --> 0:23:00.600
<v Speaker 3>One other aspects that people's reaction to the shooting is demonstrating,

0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:04.040
<v Speaker 3>and we've seen this with other major events, major political events,

0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:07.600
<v Speaker 3>violent political events, past few years, is how this shows

0:23:07.640 --> 0:23:11.240
<v Speaker 3>a new fracturing of reality, because what eventually gets proven

0:23:11.280 --> 0:23:14.080
<v Speaker 3>about the shooter will probably be insignificant to the narratives

0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:16.520
<v Speaker 3>that people have already latched onto and have baked into

0:23:16.560 --> 0:23:21.800
<v Speaker 3>reality so far. And this conceptual splitting of reality is

0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:25.679
<v Speaker 3>going to fall squarely along some partisan in political lines.

0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:29.200
<v Speaker 3>Right conservatives will have a conception of the shooting which

0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:32.840
<v Speaker 3>differs heavily from the conception of the shooting held by

0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:35.119
<v Speaker 3>people on the left. Many people on the left are

0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:37.840
<v Speaker 3>going to believe that this shooter was a groper forever,

0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:40.240
<v Speaker 3>no matter what comes out in the next few weeks

0:23:40.240 --> 0:23:43.520
<v Speaker 3>to months, they will have in their version of reality

0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:45.879
<v Speaker 3>the idea that this guy was a groper. Similarly, people

0:23:45.880 --> 0:23:48.640
<v Speaker 3>on the right are going to believe, to the fullest

0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:53.400
<v Speaker 3>and truest except of their hearts, that this guy was Antifa.

0:23:54.359 --> 0:23:57.240
<v Speaker 3>The actual reality is going to matter very little compared

0:23:57.280 --> 0:24:00.640
<v Speaker 3>to these two beliefs, and the killing of Charlie Kirk

0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:06.479
<v Speaker 3>has mimetic potential for several large, discreete and overlapping online groups.

0:24:06.480 --> 0:24:10.199
<v Speaker 3>Many different online communities or groups could have encouraged or

0:24:10.240 --> 0:24:15.240
<v Speaker 3>influenced this killing. Anti fascists certainly could have Leftists, the

0:24:15.320 --> 0:24:18.159
<v Speaker 3>Groper right could have the four Chan right could have

0:24:18.359 --> 0:24:22.240
<v Speaker 3>terror Graham could have Yeah. All different and possibly overlapping

0:24:22.240 --> 0:24:29.360
<v Speaker 3>communities in cell culture, Yeah, irony, poisoned centrists, j ragg, nihilists, accelerationists.

0:24:28.480 --> 0:24:32.160
<v Speaker 2>A normal garden variety Trumpist Republican who got angry over

0:24:32.200 --> 0:24:34.480
<v Speaker 2>Epstein stuff could have done this. There's no evidence of that.

0:24:34.520 --> 0:24:36.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm not saying, but I'm just saying, like there we

0:24:36.119 --> 0:24:39.520
<v Speaker 2>literally like it could be so many things at this point.

0:24:39.600 --> 0:24:42.199
<v Speaker 3>And as satisfying as it is to just collapse this

0:24:42.280 --> 0:24:46.439
<v Speaker 3>guy down to Antifa or Graper, it's very likely it

0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:50.360
<v Speaker 3>could just be of third, weirder option, be the weirder option, right,

0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:53.760
<v Speaker 3>especially if you look at the nihilist trend of violence

0:24:53.800 --> 0:24:57.679
<v Speaker 3>that we've covered on this show, from TCC with ties

0:24:57.760 --> 0:25:01.760
<v Speaker 3>to other extremist groups, the multiple school shootings that have

0:25:01.920 --> 0:25:07.200
<v Speaker 3>used nostalgia and online references and references to previous shootings.

0:25:07.600 --> 0:25:11.760
<v Speaker 3>This could also line up with that framework. As Robert said,

0:25:11.920 --> 0:25:16.199
<v Speaker 3>the inscription of memes onto tools of death is a

0:25:16.280 --> 0:25:19.760
<v Speaker 3>commonality across many of these gruesome acts of violence, from

0:25:19.880 --> 0:25:22.680
<v Speaker 3>christ Church to the Minneapolis school shooting just a month

0:25:22.680 --> 0:25:26.800
<v Speaker 3>ago to this assassination in September. Yeah.

0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:30.639
<v Speaker 2>Now, I think it is worth talking about how gropers

0:25:30.680 --> 0:25:33.280
<v Speaker 2>and how Nick Quintees himself has responded to this, because

0:25:33.280 --> 0:25:36.440
<v Speaker 2>that is telling, right totally, whether or not this guy

0:25:36.480 --> 0:25:40.560
<v Speaker 2>is a grower. A lot of gropers have publicly speculated

0:25:40.600 --> 0:25:41.640
<v Speaker 2>that he is their guy.

0:25:41.720 --> 0:25:44.040
<v Speaker 3>Or people on four Chan have speculated that he is

0:25:44.080 --> 0:25:47.120
<v Speaker 3>a graper, not your average four Chan user necessarily he's

0:25:47.119 --> 0:25:50.000
<v Speaker 3>a groper. I think this distinction is also important.

0:25:49.720 --> 0:25:50.320
<v Speaker 2>That is valid.

0:25:50.480 --> 0:25:52.320
<v Speaker 3>Yes, but yeah, you have seen a lot of people

0:25:52.359 --> 0:25:55.240
<v Speaker 3>on the right suspected this guy could be a groper. Certainly,

0:25:55.280 --> 0:25:58.560
<v Speaker 3>some gropers have themselves as well as four Chan users.

0:25:58.840 --> 0:26:01.520
<v Speaker 3>And Nick Fuintes does see a little bit nervous, but

0:26:01.600 --> 0:26:03.320
<v Speaker 3>he could be nervous for a lot of reasons.

0:26:03.359 --> 0:26:04.480
<v Speaker 2>But he put out a video.

0:26:04.800 --> 0:26:07.400
<v Speaker 3>I watched the entire Nick Fuentez stream last night.

0:26:07.520 --> 0:26:09.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh good, thank god, he was.

0:26:10.080 --> 0:26:14.359
<v Speaker 3>Acting a little bizarre, talking very philosophical, almost as if

0:26:14.400 --> 0:26:18.720
<v Speaker 3>he was like doing ketamine beforehand. Like he was talking

0:26:18.720 --> 0:26:22.520
<v Speaker 3>about how the structure of society, and like a spiritual

0:26:22.640 --> 0:26:26.000
<v Speaker 3>structure as well, will influence society to cause events to

0:26:26.040 --> 0:26:30.000
<v Speaker 3>happen which kind of stress test and demonstrate the direction

0:26:30.040 --> 0:26:33.120
<v Speaker 3>of society going. And he basically talked about the assassination

0:26:33.240 --> 0:26:37.080
<v Speaker 3>as one of these events of society unfolding itself to

0:26:37.240 --> 0:26:40.159
<v Speaker 3>determine what path is going to get taken. Our thing

0:26:40.280 --> 0:26:43.520
<v Speaker 3>is going to get more violent and more divisive, or

0:26:43.560 --> 0:26:47.360
<v Speaker 3>will this event alter reality's course in a more positive direction.

0:26:47.680 --> 0:26:50.560
<v Speaker 3>It was very interesting. He was talking about how he

0:26:50.760 --> 0:26:54.800
<v Speaker 3>feels some responsibility for the arc that this country has

0:26:55.200 --> 0:26:57.560
<v Speaker 3>gone on, how he's made a lot of mistakes when

0:26:57.560 --> 0:27:00.720
<v Speaker 3>he's younger. You could interpret this as trying to pick

0:27:00.840 --> 0:27:03.520
<v Speaker 3>up new supporters and try to fill in the Charlie

0:27:03.600 --> 0:27:08.119
<v Speaker 3>Kirk sized hole in the American right, but it's unclear.

0:27:08.160 --> 0:27:11.480
<v Speaker 3>He was talking quite emotionally about what the past few

0:27:11.560 --> 0:27:13.720
<v Speaker 3>years of his life have been.

0:27:13.960 --> 0:27:16.399
<v Speaker 2>And again making that comment that I want all of

0:27:16.440 --> 0:27:21.240
<v Speaker 2>my fans to stand down, etc. It's noteworthy of where Fuintes'

0:27:21.359 --> 0:27:24.639
<v Speaker 2>head is right yeah, and of the media environment. He

0:27:24.720 --> 0:27:27.520
<v Speaker 2>must exist in terms of like personally what comes to him.

0:27:27.520 --> 0:27:30.480
<v Speaker 2>And I'm very curious if I could, if I could

0:27:30.520 --> 0:27:35.280
<v Speaker 2>somehow know everything Nick Fuintees has been texted and been

0:27:35.359 --> 0:27:37.880
<v Speaker 2>texting over the last seventy two hours. God, that would

0:27:37.880 --> 0:27:38.560
<v Speaker 2>be fascinating.

0:27:39.480 --> 0:27:41.080
<v Speaker 3>He said. The people on the left were telling him

0:27:41.080 --> 0:27:43.280
<v Speaker 3>it's his responsibility to try to turn things down, and

0:27:43.320 --> 0:27:46.000
<v Speaker 3>he was kind of upset about that. And during the stream,

0:27:46.160 --> 0:27:50.080
<v Speaker 3>Fuintes was not discussing the shooter as if the shooter

0:27:50.200 --> 0:27:53.400
<v Speaker 3>was a groper, or even suspecting the shooter was a groper.

0:27:53.960 --> 0:27:56.960
<v Speaker 3>Nick telling his audience or whoever listening, to put down

0:27:57.000 --> 0:28:01.520
<v Speaker 3>your arms and not jump to quick emotional violence was

0:28:01.600 --> 0:28:05.960
<v Speaker 3>in reference to retaliatory violence against the left for their

0:28:06.119 --> 0:28:10.000
<v Speaker 3>killing of Charlie Kirk. That was the way Tuentes was

0:28:10.080 --> 0:28:13.399
<v Speaker 3>talking about the shooting through the course of this hour

0:28:13.520 --> 0:28:16.600
<v Speaker 3>long stream. It did not seem to me that he

0:28:16.680 --> 0:28:19.119
<v Speaker 3>was trying to cover his bases in case the shooter

0:28:19.280 --> 0:28:21.800
<v Speaker 3>was a groper. That wasn't how he was discussing it.

0:28:22.160 --> 0:28:25.040
<v Speaker 3>He certainly laid a lot of blame on the left,

0:28:25.400 --> 0:28:28.680
<v Speaker 3>and he seemed very scared about the direction of the country.

0:28:28.760 --> 0:28:31.639
<v Speaker 3>Someone showed up with a weapon to his house less

0:28:31.680 --> 0:28:34.479
<v Speaker 3>than a year ago, and I think some of his

0:28:34.520 --> 0:28:36.960
<v Speaker 3>fear is absolutely genuine. It's not just trying to cover

0:28:37.040 --> 0:28:39.520
<v Speaker 3>his ass in case this guy turns out to be

0:28:39.560 --> 0:28:40.080
<v Speaker 3>a groper.

0:28:40.280 --> 0:28:43.160
<v Speaker 2>No, he's in danger because of the things he did.

0:28:43.240 --> 0:28:46.480
<v Speaker 2>He invited the danger into his life by being Nick Quintes,

0:28:46.520 --> 0:28:47.440
<v Speaker 2>but he is in danger.

0:28:47.520 --> 0:28:51.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, it was. It was a very

0:28:51.720 --> 0:28:53.960
<v Speaker 3>odd stream. I tuned into nck Quentez every once in

0:28:54.000 --> 0:28:55.480
<v Speaker 3>a while just to keep track of what he was doing.

0:28:55.520 --> 0:28:56.440
<v Speaker 2>Like a healthy person.

0:28:57.160 --> 0:29:02.040
<v Speaker 3>It's my job. I know.

0:29:02.080 --> 0:29:05.000
<v Speaker 2>I woke up at four am to stock a murderer's

0:29:05.120 --> 0:29:07.000
<v Speaker 2>family on Facebook. Gearson.

0:29:09.120 --> 0:29:11.840
<v Speaker 3>So it was in the first fifteen minutes of the

0:29:11.880 --> 0:29:16.440
<v Speaker 3>stream where Nick discussed these more theoretical elements, how spiritual

0:29:16.560 --> 0:29:20.240
<v Speaker 3>or societal forces kind of use people as puppets, not

0:29:20.320 --> 0:29:24.280
<v Speaker 3>in a like fully NPC way, but as an evolutionary

0:29:24.280 --> 0:29:27.440
<v Speaker 3>method of charting the path of society. Nick then wents

0:29:27.520 --> 0:29:30.320
<v Speaker 3>to go on to discuss Charlie Kirk, how he's beefed

0:29:30.360 --> 0:29:34.240
<v Speaker 3>with Charlie in the past, how they've disagreed on nearly everything,

0:29:34.600 --> 0:29:37.520
<v Speaker 3>but goes on to say some nice things about Charlie

0:29:37.520 --> 0:29:40.280
<v Speaker 3>for the first time and then calls for everyone to

0:29:40.400 --> 0:29:42.120
<v Speaker 3>lay down their arms and now is not the time

0:29:42.120 --> 0:29:44.720
<v Speaker 3>to jump to quick action, We should reflect, et cetera,

0:29:44.800 --> 0:29:48.120
<v Speaker 3>et cetera. But in those first fifteen minutes, he talks

0:29:48.120 --> 0:29:51.840
<v Speaker 3>about like what this shooting means for American culture. And

0:29:51.840 --> 0:29:54.440
<v Speaker 3>I've been watching some of his other recent streams where

0:29:54.680 --> 0:29:57.520
<v Speaker 3>he's kind of been going after some of his fans

0:29:57.560 --> 0:30:01.560
<v Speaker 3>for just being completely like brain dead, just repeating racist

0:30:01.600 --> 0:30:04.760
<v Speaker 3>tropes with no real thought, just talking about Hitler in

0:30:04.760 --> 0:30:08.520
<v Speaker 3>this memified way, and it feels like he's sort of

0:30:08.560 --> 0:30:11.560
<v Speaker 3>reflecting on both what he's done with his life ever

0:30:11.600 --> 0:30:14.840
<v Speaker 3>since he's been a teenager and the world that he

0:30:14.880 --> 0:30:18.640
<v Speaker 3>has helped bring into being. He talks about never having

0:30:18.720 --> 0:30:22.000
<v Speaker 3>much of a actual sincere or participation in politics, how

0:30:22.000 --> 0:30:26.240
<v Speaker 3>it's always been so bombastic and mimetic, and it appears

0:30:26.240 --> 0:30:29.320
<v Speaker 3>as if he's kind of stuck doing this bit forever,

0:30:29.960 --> 0:30:32.120
<v Speaker 3>like he decided that this is what his life was

0:30:32.160 --> 0:30:34.440
<v Speaker 3>going to be as a teenager, and now he's in

0:30:34.480 --> 0:30:37.960
<v Speaker 3>his mid twenties, and from these other recent streams, it

0:30:38.040 --> 0:30:39.880
<v Speaker 3>feels like he's kind of fed up with how his

0:30:39.960 --> 0:30:44.160
<v Speaker 3>audience is just appearing completely mindless, very Larpee, endlessly repeating

0:30:44.240 --> 0:30:47.720
<v Speaker 3>Hitler references reflectionive racism, and how he's trapped himself in

0:30:47.840 --> 0:30:50.719
<v Speaker 3>this political game. And a quote he said is that

0:30:51.240 --> 0:30:54.320
<v Speaker 3>this is not a game. This is life and death.

0:30:55.080 --> 0:30:57.640
<v Speaker 3>And as we've just seen, like this is literally life

0:30:57.640 --> 0:31:01.040
<v Speaker 3>and death. This is not just online memes anymore. We

0:31:01.080 --> 0:31:05.360
<v Speaker 3>can't treat politics as an online meme game anymore because

0:31:05.680 --> 0:31:09.120
<v Speaker 3>these real life characters are getting killed. They framed a

0:31:09.160 --> 0:31:12.800
<v Speaker 3>lot of this in very spiritual warfare language, like they

0:31:13.000 --> 0:31:17.240
<v Speaker 3>killed Charlie for being Christian or talking about Jesus though

0:31:17.320 --> 0:31:20.560
<v Speaker 3>stressing to his listeners like Jesus not actually pick up

0:31:20.640 --> 0:31:24.120
<v Speaker 3>arms and fight. Yeah, and people should calm down and

0:31:24.200 --> 0:31:28.360
<v Speaker 3>reflect because how the country handles this event will be

0:31:28.360 --> 0:31:32.960
<v Speaker 3>heavily deterministic, yes, in what the country looks like going forwards.

0:31:33.000 --> 0:31:34.920
<v Speaker 3>And that's what he was expressing.

0:31:34.720 --> 0:31:38.800
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, And I think that that's that's a really

0:31:38.840 --> 0:31:43.560
<v Speaker 2>important point for people to get across that, like there's

0:31:43.800 --> 0:31:46.440
<v Speaker 2>there's the immediate battle in front of us, right, which

0:31:46.440 --> 0:31:49.680
<v Speaker 2>is why it's so tempting sometimes to take the easy

0:31:49.760 --> 0:31:51.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's this guy was one of theirs. That that

0:31:51.800 --> 0:31:53.440
<v Speaker 2>means we don't have to keep thinking about it, or

0:31:53.440 --> 0:31:54.840
<v Speaker 2>it means that we can kind of just like move

0:31:54.880 --> 0:31:57.360
<v Speaker 2>forward with this as another right wing attack. And there's

0:31:57.360 --> 0:31:59.840
<v Speaker 2>a degree to which you know, it's good just for

0:32:00.080 --> 0:32:03.040
<v Speaker 2>the right's narrative machine to get upset by the fact

0:32:03.040 --> 0:32:04.680
<v Speaker 2>that even if it turns out this guy at left

0:32:04.720 --> 0:32:07.760
<v Speaker 2>wing motivation, he's weirder and more confusing than they want

0:32:07.840 --> 0:32:10.280
<v Speaker 2>him to be, and he's not you know, the transgender

0:32:10.360 --> 0:32:11.840
<v Speaker 2>terrorists they were hoping he would.

0:32:11.680 --> 0:32:13.840
<v Speaker 3>Be certainly not trans right to give.

0:32:13.720 --> 0:32:15.440
<v Speaker 2>Them permission to do all the fucked up shit they

0:32:15.480 --> 0:32:18.280
<v Speaker 2>wanted to do. You know, if they need permission, I mean,

0:32:18.920 --> 0:32:21.320
<v Speaker 2>they seem to feel like they need an excuse.

0:32:21.440 --> 0:32:24.240
<v Speaker 3>I do think, hey, Trump creates permission. Some of his

0:32:24.360 --> 0:32:26.320
<v Speaker 3>followers might appreciate permission.

0:32:26.440 --> 0:32:26.840
<v Speaker 6>I guess.

0:32:26.960 --> 0:32:27.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:32:27.360 --> 0:32:29.880
<v Speaker 2>One thing that is undeniable is there was an extreme

0:32:30.000 --> 0:32:32.080
<v Speaker 2>desire from a lot of these guys for this to

0:32:32.160 --> 0:32:34.840
<v Speaker 2>be tied in with their ongoing attacks on trans people

0:32:34.840 --> 0:32:37.880
<v Speaker 2>in the left totally right, and so I understand even

0:32:38.000 --> 0:32:41.440
<v Speaker 2>the argument that, like anything that disrupts their narrative train, there,

0:32:41.520 --> 0:32:43.280
<v Speaker 2>even if it winds up not being accurate, there's a

0:32:43.320 --> 0:32:46.320
<v Speaker 2>value in it. I do understand that argument, But on

0:32:46.440 --> 0:32:50.640
<v Speaker 2>a larger thing if we just care about terrorism and

0:32:50.720 --> 0:32:53.680
<v Speaker 2>like why people get radicalized to do things and how

0:32:54.080 --> 0:32:56.400
<v Speaker 2>and understanding these phenomenons.

0:32:55.800 --> 0:32:59.360
<v Speaker 3>Like actually understanding how our country is unfolding.

0:32:58.960 --> 0:33:02.600
<v Speaker 2>Right, that influenced all of our lives, right, And usually

0:33:03.160 --> 0:33:06.760
<v Speaker 2>usually what happens is not a single guy getting shot

0:33:06.880 --> 0:33:09.440
<v Speaker 2>for a specific reason, usually a bunch of people who

0:33:09.440 --> 0:33:12.520
<v Speaker 2>had nothing to do with the grievances expressed getting shot.

0:33:12.760 --> 0:33:12.960
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:33:13.280 --> 0:33:15.720
<v Speaker 2>That's usually when somebody decides to pick up a gun

0:33:15.720 --> 0:33:19.600
<v Speaker 2>and go into public because the inner they they got radicalized.

0:33:20.200 --> 0:33:22.680
<v Speaker 2>Usually a bunch of random, innocent people die, which is

0:33:22.720 --> 0:33:24.719
<v Speaker 2>again why it's just really important to try to understand

0:33:24.760 --> 0:33:27.960
<v Speaker 2>the underlying dynamics, even in a specific case like this,

0:33:28.880 --> 0:33:31.040
<v Speaker 2>and why I actually do care about the truth here,

0:33:31.080 --> 0:33:34.880
<v Speaker 2>even though that that's not as convenient maybe as we'd

0:33:34.920 --> 0:33:37.719
<v Speaker 2>like it to be. I don't know what else? What

0:33:37.720 --> 0:33:39.160
<v Speaker 2>else do we want to talk about here?

0:33:39.320 --> 0:33:42.080
<v Speaker 3>No, I mean, like, I think this event will be

0:33:42.200 --> 0:33:45.640
<v Speaker 3>extremely important. Yeah, something that that fwene has talked about

0:33:45.680 --> 0:33:48.600
<v Speaker 3>is how even if you've never met Kirk, you, whether

0:33:48.640 --> 0:33:51.560
<v Speaker 3>you hate Kirk or whether you love Kirk, Kirk has

0:33:51.600 --> 0:33:57.080
<v Speaker 3>been a parasocial force in probably everyone who's listening to this. Yeah,

0:33:57.360 --> 0:34:03.560
<v Speaker 3>their lives for years, and watching him bleed out gruesomely

0:34:04.360 --> 0:34:07.719
<v Speaker 3>is massively affecting. I think the reason why people are

0:34:08.040 --> 0:34:10.360
<v Speaker 3>reacting to this so much more strongly than the murder

0:34:10.400 --> 0:34:13.840
<v Speaker 3>of a state senator and her husband is that we

0:34:13.920 --> 0:34:16.160
<v Speaker 3>did not have a personal relationship with that state senator,

0:34:16.200 --> 0:34:19.160
<v Speaker 3>nor was there a video of them gruesomely bleeding out.

0:34:19.680 --> 0:34:23.520
<v Speaker 3>And people's emotions affect how they understand reality, and the

0:34:23.719 --> 0:34:26.719
<v Speaker 3>Charlie Kirk murder has been emotionally affecting for a lot

0:34:26.760 --> 0:34:30.200
<v Speaker 3>of people, both positively and negatively. And it was very graphic,

0:34:30.480 --> 0:34:33.439
<v Speaker 3>and it's spread around like watching someone who you know,

0:34:33.480 --> 0:34:38.120
<v Speaker 3>whether personally or parasocially, die on video through the medium

0:34:38.120 --> 0:34:40.600
<v Speaker 3>in which they gained their fame, is going to be

0:34:40.640 --> 0:34:44.000
<v Speaker 3>a very large, to use a really bad pun, a

0:34:44.239 --> 0:34:48.040
<v Speaker 3>turning point for the USA. And I think that's part

0:34:48.040 --> 0:34:50.880
<v Speaker 3>of why everyone's so volatile around this issue, because I

0:34:50.880 --> 0:34:54.760
<v Speaker 3>think everyone realizes how important this moment will be. Despite

0:34:55.040 --> 0:34:59.160
<v Speaker 3>the deaths of Palestinian children vastly, vastly outnumbered the deaths

0:34:59.160 --> 0:35:00.640
<v Speaker 3>of one conservative commentator.

0:35:01.520 --> 0:35:04.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you know, like logically we could all say

0:35:04.719 --> 0:35:06.920
<v Speaker 2>that that's wrong and fucked up, but like you just

0:35:07.000 --> 0:35:09.359
<v Speaker 2>you know, that's how people work, right, how people work.

0:35:09.440 --> 0:35:11.359
<v Speaker 2>We all know that's how people work. I'm not saying

0:35:11.360 --> 0:35:12.560
<v Speaker 2>that's okay, I just you know.

0:35:12.680 --> 0:35:14.839
<v Speaker 3>No, but it's it's it's the way, it's the way

0:35:14.880 --> 0:35:15.359
<v Speaker 3>things work.

0:35:15.440 --> 0:35:19.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I don't know, like because again we again

0:35:19.320 --> 0:35:21.320
<v Speaker 2>still cannot say at this point that there was just

0:35:21.360 --> 0:35:23.760
<v Speaker 2>a Vanity Fair article came out that's kind of repeating

0:35:23.760 --> 0:35:25.720
<v Speaker 2>some of the Groper stuff. But I looked in my

0:35:25.920 --> 0:35:27.799
<v Speaker 2>post is their source on that? So they don't have

0:35:27.800 --> 0:35:29.280
<v Speaker 2>anything new on the Groper front.

0:35:29.360 --> 0:35:33.359
<v Speaker 3>So no, they're just thinking that the squatting slav meme

0:35:33.640 --> 0:35:37.160
<v Speaker 3>is evidence, yeah, tied to the Pepe version of the meme,

0:35:37.840 --> 0:35:41.160
<v Speaker 3>which is then linked to Groyper, which is a specific

0:35:41.200 --> 0:35:43.279
<v Speaker 3>type of pepe, not the skinny pepe. Yeah.

0:35:44.080 --> 0:35:47.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm so tired, Robert, I'm really tired. I don't know

0:35:47.520 --> 0:35:49.480
<v Speaker 2>if this guy liked Nick Flintes. I will say he

0:35:49.520 --> 0:35:51.680
<v Speaker 2>probably had an opinion about Nick Flintes. He was aware

0:35:51.680 --> 0:35:53.479
<v Speaker 2>of them, the dude right, like he was that level

0:35:53.480 --> 0:35:54.440
<v Speaker 2>of online for sure.

0:35:54.719 --> 0:35:57.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, which twenty two year old gamer mail doesn't.

0:35:58.080 --> 0:36:00.200
<v Speaker 3>And that's the thing, right exactly.

0:36:00.280 --> 0:36:02.680
<v Speaker 2>Again, It's like I was talking about when before we

0:36:02.760 --> 0:36:04.640
<v Speaker 2>knew who it was when we just had the video,

0:36:05.000 --> 0:36:08.000
<v Speaker 2>because I did accurately anticipate that it was someone who

0:36:08.280 --> 0:36:10.520
<v Speaker 2>learned how to shoot through hunting with a bolt action rifle.

0:36:10.520 --> 0:36:12.160
<v Speaker 2>That's just what the shot looked like to me when

0:36:12.160 --> 0:36:15.160
<v Speaker 2>I saw it, Yeah, which wound up being accurate. And

0:36:15.200 --> 0:36:17.400
<v Speaker 2>there were a lot of people who were like questioning

0:36:17.440 --> 0:36:20.719
<v Speaker 2>that on the grounds of like, well, though, this had

0:36:20.719 --> 0:36:23.080
<v Speaker 2>to be like a trained sniper or something like that,

0:36:23.160 --> 0:36:23.600
<v Speaker 2>and it's like.

0:36:23.560 --> 0:36:25.960
<v Speaker 3>This looks like a professional hit to me, Robert, or no,

0:36:26.120 --> 0:36:27.799
<v Speaker 3>a massad agent either.

0:36:27.680 --> 0:36:30.560
<v Speaker 2>Or yeah, like no, Literally, all we knew is that

0:36:30.600 --> 0:36:33.759
<v Speaker 2>it was somebody who was able to like competent with

0:36:33.840 --> 0:36:34.400
<v Speaker 2>a firearm.

0:36:34.560 --> 0:36:35.759
<v Speaker 3>That's all you could say.

0:36:35.880 --> 0:36:38.800
<v Speaker 2>And probably it was not a semi automatic because people

0:36:39.080 --> 0:36:42.560
<v Speaker 2>in stressful situations, if they can usually keep shooting right.

0:36:42.440 --> 0:36:43.719
<v Speaker 3>They would have hired more than one shot.

0:36:43.719 --> 0:36:45.200
<v Speaker 2>And was like, yeah, yeah, that's all that's all we

0:36:45.239 --> 0:36:47.520
<v Speaker 2>could say, which narrowed it down to everyone in Utah,

0:36:47.880 --> 0:36:50.520
<v Speaker 2>Like like that's when I try to emphasize this that

0:36:50.560 --> 0:36:52.720
<v Speaker 2>like what I can say from this is that anyone

0:36:52.760 --> 0:36:55.080
<v Speaker 2>in Utah could have shot Charlie Kirk at that point,

0:36:55.600 --> 0:36:58.080
<v Speaker 2>and sure enough, it turned out being almost.

0:36:57.600 --> 0:36:59.880
<v Speaker 3>Like average twenty two year old Utonian.

0:37:00.200 --> 0:37:00.520
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, you.

0:37:02.239 --> 0:37:05.040
<v Speaker 2>Positive, normal Utah kid, that's what this guy looks like

0:37:05.120 --> 0:37:05.440
<v Speaker 2>so far.

0:37:05.560 --> 0:37:09.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and yeah, there's a lot of like semi racist

0:37:09.520 --> 0:37:13.359
<v Speaker 3>or semi misogynist gamers out there. They're not necessarily gropers, right,

0:37:13.840 --> 0:37:16.480
<v Speaker 3>And we don't even know how racist this guy was.

0:37:16.600 --> 0:37:19.600
<v Speaker 3>There's no indication one way or another. He certainly had

0:37:19.640 --> 0:37:23.680
<v Speaker 3>an awareness of online culture. But everyone who makes a

0:37:23.719 --> 0:37:27.120
<v Speaker 3>hell Diver's two reference is going to have a pretty

0:37:27.200 --> 0:37:29.840
<v Speaker 3>large awareness of online culture. And that does not indicate

0:37:30.440 --> 0:37:34.040
<v Speaker 3>what his quote unquote beliefs are, just an awareness and

0:37:34.160 --> 0:37:36.280
<v Speaker 3>an existence within that culture.

0:37:37.000 --> 0:37:37.280
<v Speaker 7>Yep.

0:37:37.800 --> 0:37:41.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, I can't think of anything else to say at

0:37:41.440 --> 0:37:44.440
<v Speaker 2>the moment about this. It's unclear to me the degree

0:37:44.440 --> 0:37:48.000
<v Speaker 2>to which this has shifted the national discourse on it.

0:37:48.080 --> 0:37:50.440
<v Speaker 2>I have seen it looks like the way in which

0:37:50.480 --> 0:37:52.520
<v Speaker 2>the conservatives are talking about this guy in the shooting,

0:37:52.600 --> 0:37:54.400
<v Speaker 2>it looks like they have changed sae, at least some

0:37:54.480 --> 0:37:56.799
<v Speaker 2>of them, because it's less clear at least the number

0:37:56.840 --> 0:37:58.440
<v Speaker 2>of people right we're seeing.

0:37:58.400 --> 0:38:02.280
<v Speaker 3>The groper counter narrative has introduced doubt, which will influence

0:38:02.360 --> 0:38:06.319
<v Speaker 3>some conservatives understanding of the shooting. Others will keep keep

0:38:06.400 --> 0:38:10.440
<v Speaker 3>hitting that that, that, and that leftist Antifa line. I

0:38:10.480 --> 0:38:14.759
<v Speaker 3>have seen certain people claim that the Groper narrative is

0:38:14.760 --> 0:38:17.520
<v Speaker 3>even changing the way Trump talks about the shooting because

0:38:17.520 --> 0:38:20.360
<v Speaker 3>Trump is not referencing Charlie Kirk as much or is

0:38:20.400 --> 0:38:23.160
<v Speaker 3>avoiding questions about how he's feeling in regards to to

0:38:23.239 --> 0:38:27.080
<v Speaker 3>Kirk's death. Yea, Trump has never cared about Charlie Kirk. Okay,

0:38:27.800 --> 0:38:30.919
<v Speaker 3>Vance certainly has. He's like closer to like Vance's orbit.

0:38:31.000 --> 0:38:34.960
<v Speaker 3>But Donald Trump doesn't give a single fuck about Charlie Kirk.

0:38:35.160 --> 0:38:39.120
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely not this little, this little puny man, Like, no,

0:38:39.560 --> 0:38:42.480
<v Speaker 3>Trump does not care. It makes sense that one asked

0:38:42.560 --> 0:38:45.560
<v Speaker 3>how Trump feels about about about Charlie Kirk's and and

0:38:45.560 --> 0:38:48.200
<v Speaker 3>and if he's feeling okay, He's like, yeah, I feel fine.

0:38:48.200 --> 0:38:49.960
<v Speaker 3>What I'm really excited about is that we're constructing the

0:38:50.000 --> 0:38:54.840
<v Speaker 3>new White House ball right. Yeah, Like that's not indication

0:38:55.040 --> 0:38:58.640
<v Speaker 3>that Trump's been told that this guy's actually a rightist

0:38:58.800 --> 0:39:01.719
<v Speaker 3>and now has to not talk about how the left

0:39:01.760 --> 0:39:04.759
<v Speaker 3>is ruining the country. Now, it's that Trump does not

0:39:04.840 --> 0:39:06.200
<v Speaker 3>care about target Tark that much. And it's been a

0:39:06.239 --> 0:39:07.799
<v Speaker 3>few days, so yeah, he's gonna move on.

0:39:08.320 --> 0:39:11.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And that's you know, if you're wanting to game

0:39:11.520 --> 0:39:14.279
<v Speaker 2>theory this out of the ethics of just muddying the

0:39:14.320 --> 0:39:18.400
<v Speaker 2>waters to disrupt their momentum, Well, there's an argument to

0:39:18.400 --> 0:39:19.000
<v Speaker 2>be made there.

0:39:19.400 --> 0:39:23.480
<v Speaker 3>I can see the utility in that. Yeah, My utility is,

0:39:23.960 --> 0:39:26.000
<v Speaker 3>I would say, at the very least equal to that, right,

0:39:26.040 --> 0:39:27.880
<v Speaker 3>And that's having an accurate understanding. I want to know

0:39:27.920 --> 0:39:30.799
<v Speaker 3>what happens to the world to predict future trends and

0:39:30.840 --> 0:39:34.000
<v Speaker 3>like understand the trajectory of political violence in the United States.

0:39:34.320 --> 0:39:38.880
<v Speaker 3>And that's what my interest in stressing evidentiary standards for

0:39:39.000 --> 0:39:43.320
<v Speaker 3>understanding the motivations behind this attack and the online communities

0:39:43.320 --> 0:39:45.399
<v Speaker 3>and cultures that this attack has emerged from.

0:39:45.920 --> 0:39:48.440
<v Speaker 2>Right, And I would say, if you're looking in your

0:39:48.440 --> 0:39:51.280
<v Speaker 2>own life, how can I tell which side of things

0:39:51.320 --> 0:39:55.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm on? Just imagine everything was reversed in the case

0:39:55.600 --> 0:39:57.960
<v Speaker 2>where like you think, this is really clear evidence that

0:39:58.040 --> 0:40:01.320
<v Speaker 2>this person was motivated by whoever you hate the most,

0:40:01.400 --> 0:40:03.719
<v Speaker 2>and that whatever ideology you hate is why they did it.

0:40:04.400 --> 0:40:07.200
<v Speaker 2>If it were the opposite and this same level of

0:40:07.239 --> 0:40:10.000
<v Speaker 2>evidence was being used to accuse someone who was on

0:40:10.080 --> 0:40:13.839
<v Speaker 2>your side of things, would you consider the evidence presented enough, right,

0:40:14.440 --> 0:40:16.560
<v Speaker 2>And That's where what I'm looking at is, I have

0:40:16.680 --> 0:40:20.560
<v Speaker 2>not seen enough evidence to buy into either side fully yet.

0:40:20.600 --> 0:40:23.680
<v Speaker 2>I can make a case in my head that he's

0:40:23.719 --> 0:40:26.960
<v Speaker 2>a groper, and there's some pieces of evidence that fit

0:40:27.040 --> 0:40:28.480
<v Speaker 2>with that. And I can make a case in my

0:40:28.480 --> 0:40:30.200
<v Speaker 2>head that he's a guy who hates Charlie Kirk, and

0:40:30.239 --> 0:40:33.040
<v Speaker 2>there's quotes from some interviews that would back that up,

0:40:33.200 --> 0:40:36.600
<v Speaker 2>but neither of them is a solid at the moment

0:40:36.600 --> 0:40:39.120
<v Speaker 2>that we're recording. This is a solid hypothesis to me.

0:40:39.480 --> 0:40:42.160
<v Speaker 3>Or just a vaguely right wing board gamer right or

0:40:42.200 --> 0:40:45.080
<v Speaker 3>just a right wing word who has zoomer angst and

0:40:45.120 --> 0:40:47.680
<v Speaker 3>it manifested this way as many other people have manifested

0:40:47.680 --> 0:40:50.759
<v Speaker 3>there are zoomer anks through an act of political violence. Yeah,

0:40:50.880 --> 0:40:53.439
<v Speaker 3>like groper, a very specific term means a specific thing.

0:40:53.680 --> 0:40:56.319
<v Speaker 3>It doesn't just mean a gen z conservative.

0:40:56.719 --> 0:40:59.480
<v Speaker 2>Yep, No, it does not. And I think that's where

0:40:59.480 --> 0:41:01.239
<v Speaker 2>we're going to have to and leave you for the day.

0:41:01.360 --> 0:41:03.839
<v Speaker 2>We may have appenned an update to this, depending on

0:41:03.840 --> 0:41:06.520
<v Speaker 2>what else is out. I do think that most of

0:41:06.560 --> 0:41:08.680
<v Speaker 2>what we're talking about is pretty even though there will

0:41:08.680 --> 0:41:10.279
<v Speaker 2>be more information at the time you listen to it,

0:41:10.320 --> 0:41:13.120
<v Speaker 2>pretty timeless. In terms of how you should think about

0:41:13.280 --> 0:41:14.040
<v Speaker 2>shit like this.

0:41:14.600 --> 0:41:16.719
<v Speaker 3>How you react to whatever the next assassination is going

0:41:16.760 --> 0:41:19.759
<v Speaker 3>to be, because this is an increasing trend in American politics.

0:41:20.040 --> 0:41:22.480
<v Speaker 2>Look, if you care, and if your stance, if your

0:41:22.480 --> 0:41:25.839
<v Speaker 2>principled stance with all the evidence is I don't care.

0:41:26.400 --> 0:41:28.840
<v Speaker 2>All that matters is defeating the right. So all I

0:41:28.920 --> 0:41:32.560
<v Speaker 2>care about is what's convenient in terms of disrupting their narratives,

0:41:33.040 --> 0:41:35.080
<v Speaker 2>Then go on and live your life. But that's not

0:41:35.200 --> 0:41:37.759
<v Speaker 2>the way we're going to do things here. When we

0:41:37.800 --> 0:41:39.279
<v Speaker 2>look at these tacks, we are going to try to

0:41:39.320 --> 0:41:41.960
<v Speaker 2>figure out what happened, even if it's inconvenient, and it

0:41:41.960 --> 0:41:43.879
<v Speaker 2>may be, you know, we don't know what this guy yet.

0:41:44.200 --> 0:41:48.680
<v Speaker 3>Touch some fucking grass before you touch grass, I'm recording

0:41:48.719 --> 0:41:52.399
<v Speaker 3>one more update Sunday morning. Yesterday, right wing out let's

0:41:52.440 --> 0:41:55.320
<v Speaker 3>and then Axios and now even more mainstream out let's

0:41:55.520 --> 0:41:59.640
<v Speaker 3>started reporting that the shooter, Tyler Robinson, had a transgender

0:41:59.800 --> 0:42:04.200
<v Speaker 3>room mate, and that investigators believe the two had some

0:42:04.239 --> 0:42:09.080
<v Speaker 3>sort of romantic relationship. Some information from law enforcement officials

0:42:09.080 --> 0:42:12.720
<v Speaker 3>about this investigation has been shown to be dubious at best,

0:42:12.880 --> 0:42:16.040
<v Speaker 3>but it is true that the shooter had a roommate

0:42:16.080 --> 0:42:20.120
<v Speaker 3>who does appear to be transgender. The roommate's TikTok can

0:42:20.160 --> 0:42:23.120
<v Speaker 3>be traced to a Reddit account where they post about

0:42:23.160 --> 0:42:26.600
<v Speaker 3>being trans and post on r slash trans r slash

0:42:26.680 --> 0:42:31.799
<v Speaker 3>trans Diy, as well as r slash four Tran, and

0:42:31.840 --> 0:42:34.440
<v Speaker 3>also posts on our slash Green Text and r slash

0:42:34.480 --> 0:42:38.600
<v Speaker 3>four Chan. Also active in a variety of video games subreddits,

0:42:38.840 --> 0:42:44.840
<v Speaker 3>magic the Gathering Memes subreddits, r slash Distressing Memes, r

0:42:44.920 --> 0:42:49.719
<v Speaker 3>slash Reddit Moment, r slash Unpopular Opinion, r slash Lord

0:42:49.760 --> 0:42:54.280
<v Speaker 3>of the Rings Memes, r slash Prehistoric Memes, r slash

0:42:54.400 --> 0:42:59.680
<v Speaker 3>dank Meme, r slash nothing Ever Happens. Also post on

0:42:59.800 --> 0:43:05.200
<v Speaker 3>our slash by Irl, r slash Anarcho Capitalism, r slash

0:43:05.400 --> 0:43:09.799
<v Speaker 3>Jordan Peterson, as well as the four Chan themed subreddits.

0:43:10.440 --> 0:43:13.560
<v Speaker 3>I should also note that scrolling these subredits is not

0:43:13.640 --> 0:43:19.439
<v Speaker 3>necessarily indicative of someone's political orientation. I myself scroll many

0:43:19.520 --> 0:43:23.200
<v Speaker 3>of these subredits, as do largely a political friends of

0:43:23.239 --> 0:43:27.320
<v Speaker 3>mine who check out these subreddits regularly just for shits

0:43:27.320 --> 0:43:31.920
<v Speaker 3>and giggles. This is politics as meme subredits like Political

0:43:31.960 --> 0:43:38.240
<v Speaker 3>Compass and TPUSA are popular political subredits with explicitly comedic purpose,

0:43:38.600 --> 0:43:42.560
<v Speaker 3>including making fun of Charlie Kirk in a memified fashion.

0:43:42.880 --> 0:43:45.200
<v Speaker 3>And I don't know if the roommate visited those two

0:43:45.200 --> 0:43:48.000
<v Speaker 3>specific subreddits, but I'm just using them as an example.

0:43:48.640 --> 0:43:51.120
<v Speaker 3>Utah Governor Spencer Cox says that the roommate did not

0:43:51.160 --> 0:43:54.879
<v Speaker 3>have any knowledge of Tyler Robinson's planned attack and has

0:43:54.920 --> 0:43:59.040
<v Speaker 3>been incredibly cooperative throughout the course of the investigation. Sources

0:43:59.080 --> 0:44:03.120
<v Speaker 3>have told Axios that investigators initially wanted information about the

0:44:03.200 --> 0:44:07.080
<v Speaker 3>roommates gender identity to not be publicly reported. The right

0:44:07.200 --> 0:44:10.320
<v Speaker 3>is certainly eager to make any sort of transgender connection

0:44:10.600 --> 0:44:13.520
<v Speaker 3>to this shooting. The New York Post has referred to

0:44:13.520 --> 0:44:17.600
<v Speaker 3>this shooting as another shooting by trans people and their advocates.

0:44:18.360 --> 0:44:23.120
<v Speaker 3>The actual motivation of the shooter is still currently unknown.

0:44:23.840 --> 0:44:28.520
<v Speaker 3>Governor Cox has described his ideology as leftist, while also

0:44:28.640 --> 0:44:31.279
<v Speaker 3>noting quote there was a lot of gaming going on.

0:44:31.600 --> 0:44:35.400
<v Speaker 3>Friends have confirmed that there was that deep dark internet

0:44:35.680 --> 0:44:39.319
<v Speaker 3>Reddit culture and other dark places of the Internet where

0:44:39.360 --> 0:44:42.799
<v Speaker 3>this person was going deep. You saw that on the casings.

0:44:43.360 --> 0:44:46.680
<v Speaker 3>I didn't have any idea what those inscriptions meant, but

0:44:46.880 --> 0:44:50.360
<v Speaker 3>they are certainly the memification that is happening in our society.

0:44:50.400 --> 0:44:54.080
<v Speaker 3>Today unquote, that's pretty much all we know so far.

0:44:55.160 --> 0:45:27.240
<v Speaker 8>Now go touch some grass.

0:45:14.200 --> 0:45:16.560
<v Speaker 9>Here. The last time that you and I spoke was

0:45:16.600 --> 0:45:20.240
<v Speaker 9>about twelve hours after Trump announced the takeover of DC's

0:45:20.280 --> 0:45:24.680
<v Speaker 9>police force. It had really just happened, so I didn't

0:45:24.719 --> 0:45:26.920
<v Speaker 9>really have a ton of clarity about how things were

0:45:26.920 --> 0:45:30.000
<v Speaker 9>going to be taking shape and what resistance or pushback

0:45:30.040 --> 0:45:33.920
<v Speaker 9>would look like. Now today that we're speaking Friday, September twelfth,

0:45:34.000 --> 0:45:36.640
<v Speaker 9>it's been a little over about thirty days since all

0:45:36.680 --> 0:45:38.560
<v Speaker 9>of this went down, and I feel like we're due

0:45:38.640 --> 0:45:42.200
<v Speaker 9>for an update from my hometown, the District of Columbia.

0:45:42.280 --> 0:45:44.799
<v Speaker 3>What do you say? Absolutely, we're at the deadline. So

0:45:44.840 --> 0:45:50.760
<v Speaker 3>now Trump can no longer do anything. The city's back. God,

0:45:50.840 --> 0:45:54.839
<v Speaker 3>I wish you're free once again. Oh my God, from

0:45:54.920 --> 0:45:58.680
<v Speaker 3>your lips to God's ears. So I did want to

0:45:58.760 --> 0:46:01.239
<v Speaker 3>set the stage a little bit up top. You know,

0:46:01.400 --> 0:46:03.799
<v Speaker 3>I'm a journalist, but I am also an advocate for

0:46:03.880 --> 0:46:07.160
<v Speaker 3>DC statehood first and foremost. I feel like I need

0:46:07.200 --> 0:46:09.359
<v Speaker 3>to make sure something is super clear, which is that

0:46:10.000 --> 0:46:12.360
<v Speaker 3>how entwined all of this.

0:46:12.440 --> 0:46:14.520
<v Speaker 10>Is to DC's lack of statehood.

0:46:14.840 --> 0:46:16.839
<v Speaker 9>After the last time that you and I spoke, there

0:46:17.400 --> 0:46:19.640
<v Speaker 9>a listener said, oh, why is she making this whole

0:46:19.640 --> 0:46:22.800
<v Speaker 9>thing about statehood? How would DC being a state change anything?

0:46:23.200 --> 0:46:25.839
<v Speaker 9>How would two more democratic senators change anything? Why are

0:46:25.880 --> 0:46:28.120
<v Speaker 9>you making it about that? And I thought, oop, I

0:46:28.360 --> 0:46:30.800
<v Speaker 9>did not do a good enough job of making clear

0:46:31.440 --> 0:46:34.680
<v Speaker 9>why the takeover in DC could happen at all, and

0:46:34.760 --> 0:46:37.080
<v Speaker 9>the ways that DC's lack of statehood is at the

0:46:37.120 --> 0:46:39.840
<v Speaker 9>heart of that issue. This is just sort of the

0:46:39.960 --> 0:46:42.120
<v Speaker 9>soup that I swim in all day, every day, So

0:46:42.160 --> 0:46:44.719
<v Speaker 9>I forget. That's not true for everybody. For some of you,

0:46:45.000 --> 0:46:47.360
<v Speaker 9>this might be a refresher, and you might know this already,

0:46:47.600 --> 0:46:50.360
<v Speaker 9>But the reason why Trump started all of this in

0:46:50.440 --> 0:46:53.480
<v Speaker 9>DC is because DC is not a state. You know,

0:46:53.640 --> 0:46:56.719
<v Speaker 9>as president, Trump has a lot more authority over DC

0:46:56.880 --> 0:47:00.000
<v Speaker 9>than he has over any other place in the country.

0:47:00.000 --> 0:47:03.359
<v Speaker 9>While Trump talking about sending the National Guard into other

0:47:03.440 --> 0:47:04.640
<v Speaker 9>cities is awful.

0:47:04.840 --> 0:47:07.360
<v Speaker 3>He wants to do it to Chicago's so bad, so bad,

0:47:07.719 --> 0:47:11.120
<v Speaker 3>but he doesn't have the ability to. And he's really

0:47:11.200 --> 0:47:13.000
<v Speaker 3>upset about that, so much so that he's probably going

0:47:13.080 --> 0:47:16.120
<v Speaker 3>to cancel a degree of the plans for National Guard

0:47:16.120 --> 0:47:19.360
<v Speaker 3>diploma to Chicago instead going to cooperate with Louisiana because

0:47:19.360 --> 0:47:22.560
<v Speaker 3>the governor is okay with working with Trump on that

0:47:22.640 --> 0:47:24.320
<v Speaker 3>in Louisiana.

0:47:23.719 --> 0:47:27.400
<v Speaker 9>Yes, exactly exactly did you see this is like a

0:47:27.440 --> 0:47:29.560
<v Speaker 9>non secorder. But the tweet that he put out, like

0:47:29.640 --> 0:47:32.520
<v Speaker 9>the AI generated tweet that's they're gonna find out why

0:47:32.560 --> 0:47:34.640
<v Speaker 9>we call it's the Department of War. Then it was like, oh,

0:47:34.680 --> 0:47:36.960
<v Speaker 9>we were just just kidding and just.

0:47:36.600 --> 0:47:39.239
<v Speaker 10>Yes, delete that tweet now the most just that was

0:47:39.239 --> 0:47:39.440
<v Speaker 10>just a.

0:47:39.480 --> 0:47:41.880
<v Speaker 3>Joke, which is into like downplay, like the amount of

0:47:41.880 --> 0:47:45.279
<v Speaker 3>federal resources currently in Chicago. ICE in DHS have been

0:47:45.360 --> 0:47:49.719
<v Speaker 3>very busy in Chicago, and I believe Friday morning, the

0:47:49.840 --> 0:47:53.280
<v Speaker 3>day that we recorded this, ICE killed somebody in Chicago

0:47:53.440 --> 0:47:57.359
<v Speaker 3>during an enforcement action. So this isn't to say, you know,

0:47:57.560 --> 0:48:01.440
<v Speaker 3>Chicago's freed from Trump's federal force. His ICE is still

0:48:01.520 --> 0:48:03.920
<v Speaker 3>operating in Chicago as they have been, but at least

0:48:03.920 --> 0:48:08.400
<v Speaker 3>the National Guard deployment like mass military style occupation is

0:48:08.760 --> 0:48:10.120
<v Speaker 3>unlikely in the near future.

0:48:10.400 --> 0:48:13.120
<v Speaker 9>Yes, that is great context, and I think it also

0:48:13.280 --> 0:48:17.319
<v Speaker 9>illustrates why what's happening in DC is so unique and

0:48:17.840 --> 0:48:20.839
<v Speaker 9>could not happen anywhere else in the country. So while

0:48:20.840 --> 0:48:23.319
<v Speaker 9>Trump is talking about wanting to send the National Guard

0:48:23.320 --> 0:48:27.000
<v Speaker 9>to other cities, he does not have the broad authority

0:48:27.040 --> 0:48:30.279
<v Speaker 9>to take over local police forces in those cities the

0:48:30.280 --> 0:48:32.719
<v Speaker 9>way that he did in DC. And even if he did,

0:48:32.840 --> 0:48:36.160
<v Speaker 9>let's say, exercise what authority he could have over local

0:48:36.200 --> 0:48:38.600
<v Speaker 9>police and other cities, say like in an emergency situation,

0:48:39.000 --> 0:48:42.400
<v Speaker 9>it still wouldn't be the attempt to take over the

0:48:42.440 --> 0:48:44.880
<v Speaker 9>police force like we saw in DC. Like when this

0:48:44.880 --> 0:48:48.320
<v Speaker 9>first happened, Pam Bondi was literally trying to replace DC's

0:48:48.360 --> 0:48:52.040
<v Speaker 9>chief of police briefly successfully until DC's Attorney General, Brian

0:48:52.040 --> 0:48:55.160
<v Speaker 9>Schwab sued. Right, And so yeah, Trump does not have

0:48:55.239 --> 0:48:59.120
<v Speaker 9>the authority to oust local leaders and other cities and states.

0:48:59.480 --> 0:49:02.799
<v Speaker 9>Even if sent the National Guard to Memphis, Memphis still

0:49:02.800 --> 0:49:05.320
<v Speaker 9>has a mayor, Tennessee has a governor, there's senators, this

0:49:05.440 --> 0:49:09.880
<v Speaker 9>congressional representation. Because DC is not a state, Trump working

0:49:09.920 --> 0:49:13.080
<v Speaker 9>with Congress could take over our city, elset, our mayor,

0:49:13.120 --> 0:49:15.680
<v Speaker 9>and our city council. He has been talking about doing

0:49:15.680 --> 0:49:18.520
<v Speaker 9>that as recently as this morning. I want to play

0:49:18.520 --> 0:49:21.240
<v Speaker 9>a quick clip. He does lie in this clip because

0:49:21.680 --> 0:49:24.440
<v Speaker 9>technically he doesn't have the authority. It has to go

0:49:24.480 --> 0:49:27.800
<v Speaker 9>through Congress. But you know, I don't see our Congress

0:49:27.840 --> 0:49:30.640
<v Speaker 9>really standing up to whatever Trump wants anytime soon, and

0:49:30.680 --> 0:49:34.200
<v Speaker 9>so if Congress were to provoke DC's home rule, then

0:49:34.520 --> 0:49:37.319
<v Speaker 9>Trump would be able to appoint whoever he wanted to

0:49:37.560 --> 0:49:39.680
<v Speaker 9>run d C. So I want to play a clip

0:49:39.680 --> 0:49:43.040
<v Speaker 9>of him talking about this, weirdly in Oppressor about that

0:49:43.239 --> 0:49:46.160
<v Speaker 9>Charlie Kirk murder. Here's what he had to say.

0:49:46.520 --> 0:49:48.360
<v Speaker 11>Well, the mayor's asked us to say, you know, we

0:49:48.440 --> 0:49:51.160
<v Speaker 11>have a Democrat mayor. He was asked us today, and

0:49:51.280 --> 0:49:53.640
<v Speaker 11>DC's a little bit different because I could federalize it

0:49:53.680 --> 0:49:55.560
<v Speaker 11>if I want. You know, DC's a little bit different.

0:49:55.600 --> 0:49:56.799
<v Speaker 11>So we have a lot of a lot.

0:49:56.960 --> 0:49:58.520
<v Speaker 7>We have actually more.

0:49:58.320 --> 0:50:01.040
<v Speaker 11>Power in DC because it's you know, I can change

0:50:01.040 --> 0:50:02.879
<v Speaker 11>the mayor if I want, I can do whatever I want.

0:50:02.920 --> 0:50:03.560
<v Speaker 3>I haven't had to.

0:50:03.840 --> 0:50:06.120
<v Speaker 11>We've had a great relationship with the mayor. We've had

0:50:06.120 --> 0:50:09.680
<v Speaker 11>a great relationship. Everybody's happy, and the mayor was not

0:50:09.800 --> 0:50:12.839
<v Speaker 11>in favor of it at first. We forced and then

0:50:12.880 --> 0:50:15.600
<v Speaker 11>she saw the results and everyone's going up the thank

0:50:15.640 --> 0:50:15.920
<v Speaker 11>you her.

0:50:16.160 --> 0:50:17.400
<v Speaker 7>We have no crime anymore.

0:50:17.800 --> 0:50:19.719
<v Speaker 9>Ugh, Okay, I gotta stop it because I can't even

0:50:20.120 --> 0:50:23.080
<v Speaker 9>I can't even listen to him bloviate on that.

0:50:23.160 --> 0:50:25.200
<v Speaker 10>But again he's kind of lying here.

0:50:25.280 --> 0:50:29.920
<v Speaker 9>But there is a reality where Trump single handedly is

0:50:29.960 --> 0:50:33.160
<v Speaker 9>in control of DC. So it would have to take

0:50:33.239 --> 0:50:36.279
<v Speaker 9>Congress overturning DC's home rule. But I don't think that

0:50:36.320 --> 0:50:38.840
<v Speaker 9>would be terribly difficult for him to achieve. And if

0:50:38.880 --> 0:50:42.040
<v Speaker 9>that does happen, he is right that he could appoint

0:50:42.040 --> 0:50:45.400
<v Speaker 9>whoever he wanted to be in control of DC. And

0:50:45.440 --> 0:50:49.400
<v Speaker 9>so the GOP has already introduced legislation that would revoke

0:50:49.680 --> 0:50:52.839
<v Speaker 9>DC's home rule entirely, something that Trump says that he

0:50:52.880 --> 0:50:55.239
<v Speaker 9>wants to do. To be super clear, this would mean

0:50:55.239 --> 0:50:58.440
<v Speaker 9>that all of the little things that you rely on

0:50:58.560 --> 0:51:01.040
<v Speaker 9>and probably take for granted about your day to day

0:51:01.040 --> 0:51:05.080
<v Speaker 9>local life, your social services, your trash pickup, how your

0:51:05.120 --> 0:51:08.000
<v Speaker 9>streets are run, your public transport, Trump would be in

0:51:08.080 --> 0:51:11.680
<v Speaker 9>charge of literally all of that. For me, it's important

0:51:11.719 --> 0:51:14.520
<v Speaker 9>to me that people understand how bad of a situation

0:51:14.640 --> 0:51:15.080
<v Speaker 9>that would be.

0:51:15.480 --> 0:51:17.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that would be unprecedented.

0:51:18.000 --> 0:51:19.600
<v Speaker 10>So just to put a pin in that.

0:51:20.040 --> 0:51:22.600
<v Speaker 9>Even though Trump is talking about setting the National Guard

0:51:22.600 --> 0:51:26.200
<v Speaker 9>to other cities, DC's lack of statehood really makes what's

0:51:26.239 --> 0:51:29.879
<v Speaker 9>happening here unlike any other place in the country, DC

0:51:30.040 --> 0:51:33.600
<v Speaker 9>is uniquely vulnerable. In addition to all of the racial

0:51:33.640 --> 0:51:37.520
<v Speaker 9>equity and democracy implications for statehood. The reality is everyday

0:51:37.520 --> 0:51:39.160
<v Speaker 9>lives of more than a half a million people who

0:51:39.200 --> 0:51:42.400
<v Speaker 9>live here like me are made more vulnerable by DC's

0:51:42.440 --> 0:51:45.759
<v Speaker 9>lack of statehood. So when I am on my statehood soapbox,

0:51:46.280 --> 0:51:49.319
<v Speaker 9>that is why, because the lack of statehood in DC

0:51:49.480 --> 0:51:52.280
<v Speaker 9>just makes us very vulnerable to having somebody like Trump

0:51:52.560 --> 0:51:56.680
<v Speaker 9>really exercise an unprecedented amount of control that we will

0:51:56.719 --> 0:51:59.520
<v Speaker 9>not see anywhere else in the United States. So just

0:51:59.560 --> 0:52:03.319
<v Speaker 9>wanted to make that clear. Okay, So now I have

0:52:03.640 --> 0:52:08.200
<v Speaker 9>some updates about the situation. As you said, Garrison, the

0:52:08.600 --> 0:52:11.799
<v Speaker 9>crime emergency in DC, which sort of kicked all of

0:52:11.840 --> 0:52:13.719
<v Speaker 9>this off, has come to an end.

0:52:14.239 --> 0:52:17.400
<v Speaker 10>Free that's over. Mission accomplished.

0:52:17.440 --> 0:52:20.560
<v Speaker 9>We did its accomplished, so it lasted thirty days and

0:52:20.600 --> 0:52:23.839
<v Speaker 9>it's come to an end. However, there is no guarantee

0:52:23.880 --> 0:52:27.279
<v Speaker 9>that Trump couldn't just declare another one. The optics of

0:52:27.280 --> 0:52:29.960
<v Speaker 9>that would be a little weird because he's been talking,

0:52:30.000 --> 0:52:31.520
<v Speaker 9>as we just heard in that clip, he's been talking

0:52:31.600 --> 0:52:34.439
<v Speaker 9>about how crime is down to zero in DC except

0:52:34.480 --> 0:52:37.480
<v Speaker 9>for domestic violence, which everybody knows isn't really a crime, right, Like,

0:52:37.760 --> 0:52:40.399
<v Speaker 9>he made it very clear that he feels like crime

0:52:40.440 --> 0:52:42.440
<v Speaker 9>has gone to zero, so will be pretty weird to

0:52:42.480 --> 0:52:45.879
<v Speaker 9>then institute another crime emergency in DC.

0:52:46.320 --> 0:52:48.400
<v Speaker 3>He kind of got what he wanted to with the

0:52:48.480 --> 0:52:50.560
<v Speaker 3>mayor agreeing to cooperate with him.

0:52:50.600 --> 0:52:52.759
<v Speaker 10>Someone m hmmm exactly.

0:52:53.160 --> 0:52:56.279
<v Speaker 9>So to be super clear, even with the crime emergency

0:52:56.280 --> 0:52:59.239
<v Speaker 9>in DC, ending that in no way means an end

0:52:59.280 --> 0:53:01.759
<v Speaker 9>to things like the National Guard in our streets or

0:53:01.960 --> 0:53:05.160
<v Speaker 9>checkpoints which have just been horrifying, and the surge that

0:53:05.160 --> 0:53:07.640
<v Speaker 9>we're seeing in federal law enforcement, because those are two

0:53:07.640 --> 0:53:11.759
<v Speaker 9>distinct things. And in the last few weeks of this,

0:53:12.120 --> 0:53:15.680
<v Speaker 9>what's really become just abundantly clear is that this whole

0:53:15.719 --> 0:53:19.120
<v Speaker 9>thing was about immigration. Even after all the talk of

0:53:19.200 --> 0:53:21.920
<v Speaker 9>crime and DC, it became very clear that this is

0:53:21.960 --> 0:53:26.240
<v Speaker 9>less about crime and more about enforcing Trump's immigration agenda.

0:53:26.320 --> 0:53:29.120
<v Speaker 9>As you sort of alluded to early on, before she

0:53:29.280 --> 0:53:33.560
<v Speaker 9>really changed her tune about Tukes into the takeover, our

0:53:33.680 --> 0:53:37.000
<v Speaker 9>mayor Muriel Bowser held a press conference where she said, well,

0:53:37.000 --> 0:53:39.840
<v Speaker 9>if Trump's goal was to deport migrants and bring an ice,

0:53:39.920 --> 0:53:41.880
<v Speaker 9>you know, he didn't have to take over MPD to

0:53:41.920 --> 0:53:44.239
<v Speaker 9>do that. He should have just outright said that's what

0:53:44.280 --> 0:53:45.959
<v Speaker 9>he wanted to do, instead of making it this whole

0:53:46.000 --> 0:53:48.640
<v Speaker 9>thing about crime. Don't ask her to repeat that sentiment now,

0:53:48.719 --> 0:53:50.920
<v Speaker 9>because I don't think that she would. She's really really

0:53:51.000 --> 0:53:52.600
<v Speaker 9>changed her tune, which we'll talk about.

0:53:52.400 --> 0:53:52.880
<v Speaker 10>In a moment.

0:53:53.320 --> 0:53:56.760
<v Speaker 9>And so one of the things that makes it complicated

0:53:56.960 --> 0:54:01.120
<v Speaker 9>is that when you're talking about immigration detention versus other

0:54:01.200 --> 0:54:04.040
<v Speaker 9>kinds of arrests, it just becomes a lot harder to

0:54:04.080 --> 0:54:06.800
<v Speaker 9>have transparency into what's going on. But the Associated Press

0:54:06.800 --> 0:54:10.160
<v Speaker 9>reported that dated from the federal operation, analyzed by the

0:54:10.160 --> 0:54:13.000
<v Speaker 9>AP shows that more than forty percent of the arrests

0:54:13.080 --> 0:54:16.360
<v Speaker 9>made over the month long operation were related to immigration.

0:54:16.880 --> 0:54:19.080
<v Speaker 9>They spoke to Austin Rose, a managing attorney for the

0:54:19.120 --> 0:54:22.360
<v Speaker 9>AMICA Center for Immigrant Rights, who said the federal takeover

0:54:22.440 --> 0:54:25.319
<v Speaker 9>has been a cover to do federal immigration enforcement. It

0:54:25.320 --> 0:54:27.560
<v Speaker 9>became pretty clear early on that this was a major

0:54:27.640 --> 0:54:31.200
<v Speaker 9>campaign of immigration enforcement, and that's just it's really hard

0:54:31.200 --> 0:54:34.480
<v Speaker 9>to deny that this was just another increasing plank of

0:54:34.520 --> 0:54:36.120
<v Speaker 9>the president's agenda on immigration.

0:54:36.880 --> 0:54:39.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and I think you can certainly look at the

0:54:39.600 --> 0:54:42.160
<v Speaker 3>anti crime narratives getting a lot of traction on the

0:54:42.239 --> 0:54:45.319
<v Speaker 3>right with that pretty gruesome murder in North Carolina last

0:54:45.360 --> 0:54:48.480
<v Speaker 3>week as well, and like, absolutely the crime angle is

0:54:48.560 --> 0:54:51.560
<v Speaker 3>part of the rhetorical strategy Trump is using. And yeah,

0:54:52.040 --> 0:54:54.759
<v Speaker 3>a right wing populast president doing a crime crackdown. Oh,

0:54:54.920 --> 0:54:57.160
<v Speaker 3>this is unheard of, This is unprecedented. No, like, of

0:54:57.320 --> 0:54:59.840
<v Speaker 3>course they're going to use that angle. But yeah, the

0:55:00.040 --> 0:55:01.880
<v Speaker 3>under discussed element of this is how much this has

0:55:01.920 --> 0:55:05.120
<v Speaker 3>just been a cover to do a rapid increase in

0:55:05.120 --> 0:55:08.839
<v Speaker 3>the number of immigration actions around DC. Will like you said,

0:55:08.840 --> 0:55:11.560
<v Speaker 3>that was like forty percent, so still another sixty percent

0:55:11.600 --> 0:55:15.239
<v Speaker 3>of arrests is just affecting the other DC residents, and

0:55:15.840 --> 0:55:17.520
<v Speaker 3>a lot of that is tying to this national crime

0:55:17.560 --> 0:55:21.040
<v Speaker 3>wave narratives that these people are also pushing. I think

0:55:21.040 --> 0:55:25.680
<v Speaker 3>these things work together. They're not necessarily like oppositional analyzes

0:55:25.800 --> 0:55:28.759
<v Speaker 3>of what's going on. But the immigration angle has been

0:55:28.880 --> 0:55:31.560
<v Speaker 3>very underdiscussed in the DC occupation.

0:55:32.000 --> 0:55:35.520
<v Speaker 9>I agree it's hard to discuss because I think we

0:55:35.680 --> 0:55:39.320
<v Speaker 9>have to really have some honest conversations. It is true

0:55:39.480 --> 0:55:43.760
<v Speaker 9>that DC experienced a surge in violent crime in twenty

0:55:43.800 --> 0:55:47.200
<v Speaker 9>twenty three. That surge thankfully went down, But I think

0:55:47.280 --> 0:55:50.440
<v Speaker 9>that crime is just one of those issues where people

0:55:50.440 --> 0:55:55.400
<v Speaker 9>who other rise are invested in telling nuanced, thoughtful stories

0:55:55.440 --> 0:55:58.680
<v Speaker 9>about complex issues. I see a lot of that nuance

0:55:58.800 --> 0:56:01.080
<v Speaker 9>and thoughtfulness go right out out the window when we're

0:56:01.200 --> 0:56:05.920
<v Speaker 9>talking about crime. And I think that we really let

0:56:06.400 --> 0:56:10.160
<v Speaker 9>the right dominate the conversation about crime in our cities

0:56:10.200 --> 0:56:13.520
<v Speaker 9>and in some ways hijack that conversation. And I do

0:56:13.719 --> 0:56:16.400
<v Speaker 9>think that dynamic is part and parcel to how we

0:56:16.480 --> 0:56:19.120
<v Speaker 9>got here. Now, I have a b in my bonnet

0:56:19.160 --> 0:56:22.640
<v Speaker 9>about some of the sloppy journalism, like local journalism, people

0:56:22.640 --> 0:56:24.760
<v Speaker 9>who really should know better about crime.

0:56:25.160 --> 0:56:27.360
<v Speaker 10>You know, we had a wave.

0:56:27.200 --> 0:56:29.480
<v Speaker 9>Of businesses shut and they would say, oh, we're shutting

0:56:29.520 --> 0:56:31.880
<v Speaker 9>because of crime, and it's like, yeah, look you actually

0:56:31.880 --> 0:56:33.760
<v Speaker 9>look and you're thinking, oh, well, this is a cash

0:56:33.800 --> 0:56:34.600
<v Speaker 9>less business.

0:56:34.680 --> 0:56:36.680
<v Speaker 10>What kind of crime were you experiencing?

0:56:37.120 --> 0:56:39.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there's no way. Using crime as this excuse in

0:56:40.120 --> 0:56:44.120
<v Speaker 3>post COVID economic decline has been extremely convenient for a

0:56:44.160 --> 0:56:47.160
<v Speaker 3>lot of corporations. And yeah, I guess like the degree

0:56:47.160 --> 0:56:51.040
<v Speaker 3>to which we've seeded territory on that same way, you know,

0:56:51.040 --> 0:56:52.920
<v Speaker 3>we see a territory on like the border and immigration,

0:56:53.040 --> 0:56:58.760
<v Speaker 3>but specifically sitting territory on discussion of crime allowed operating

0:56:58.800 --> 0:57:02.520
<v Speaker 3>space for Trump to deploy this narrative, which then was

0:57:02.600 --> 0:57:04.160
<v Speaker 3>used to hurt a lot of.

0:57:04.280 --> 0:57:09.320
<v Speaker 9>Immigrants exactly, and in DC, we saw much tighter coordination

0:57:09.440 --> 0:57:12.520
<v Speaker 9>with immigration officials with our local police force, especially at

0:57:12.600 --> 0:57:16.320
<v Speaker 9>checkpoints where police would work with ICE even if someone

0:57:16.440 --> 0:57:19.280
<v Speaker 9>was not otherwise detained or in custody. I did an

0:57:19.280 --> 0:57:22.280
<v Speaker 9>interview with the Washington Posts Tayu Armis, who covers immigrant

0:57:22.280 --> 0:57:25.120
<v Speaker 9>communities here in DC, and he told me that this

0:57:25.240 --> 0:57:28.040
<v Speaker 9>whole thing was essentially an attack on the policies that

0:57:28.080 --> 0:57:30.680
<v Speaker 9>make a city like DC what is commonly thought of

0:57:30.720 --> 0:57:33.760
<v Speaker 9>as a sanctuary city. I don't love the phrase sanctuary city,

0:57:33.800 --> 0:57:36.520
<v Speaker 9>but you know what I mean, you know laws that

0:57:36.720 --> 0:57:40.440
<v Speaker 9>do not require police departments to coordinate with immigration officials.

0:57:41.120 --> 0:57:43.320
<v Speaker 9>Really that it was an attack.

0:57:43.040 --> 0:57:44.280
<v Speaker 3>On those Yeah, totally.

0:57:44.440 --> 0:57:46.480
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, I mean, and I think that it's important that

0:57:46.520 --> 0:57:48.600
<v Speaker 9>we call that out for what it is. And this

0:57:48.680 --> 0:57:51.160
<v Speaker 9>is difficult for me personally, but not get lost in

0:57:51.560 --> 0:57:55.280
<v Speaker 9>debating what Trump is laying out about crime, because when

0:57:55.320 --> 0:57:57.840
<v Speaker 9>you understand that it's not really about crime, then you

0:57:57.880 --> 0:57:59.840
<v Speaker 9>don't have to do that debating, right, And it's like, well,

0:57:59.880 --> 0:58:01.800
<v Speaker 9>the it's not really about crime, so let's not waste

0:58:01.840 --> 0:58:04.360
<v Speaker 9>time debating what we both can plainly see this is

0:58:04.400 --> 0:58:05.320
<v Speaker 9>not really about.

0:58:05.280 --> 0:58:08.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, because DC is just faking all crime stats anyway,

0:58:08.520 --> 0:58:09.480
<v Speaker 3>right bridget.

0:58:09.200 --> 0:58:11.400
<v Speaker 10>Oh gosh, don't even get me started, gare.

0:58:23.760 --> 0:58:26.640
<v Speaker 9>And so, something that Tayu told me in our interview

0:58:26.640 --> 0:58:29.440
<v Speaker 9>that I found very troubling is that, again, when someone

0:58:29.520 --> 0:58:32.800
<v Speaker 9>is detained because of a suspected immigration related issue, we

0:58:32.920 --> 0:58:35.720
<v Speaker 9>just have a lot less information and transparency than if

0:58:35.720 --> 0:58:38.440
<v Speaker 9>they were being arrested for another kind of crime. He

0:58:38.520 --> 0:58:41.840
<v Speaker 9>described it as a black box that is difficult to penetrate,

0:58:41.960 --> 0:58:45.280
<v Speaker 9>which is obviously heightened when you have masked agents pulling

0:58:45.320 --> 0:58:48.000
<v Speaker 9>people out of cars at checkpoints and doing things like

0:58:48.080 --> 0:58:52.680
<v Speaker 9>literally hitting delivery drivers with vehicles right like, it becomes

0:58:52.880 --> 0:58:56.040
<v Speaker 9>very difficult to really even understand what's going on, and

0:58:56.080 --> 0:58:56.800
<v Speaker 9>that's by design.

0:58:57.080 --> 0:58:58.640
<v Speaker 3>It's hard to find them in the system because these

0:58:58.640 --> 0:59:01.320
<v Speaker 3>people often aren't even charged with their crime. Remaining in

0:59:01.360 --> 0:59:03.960
<v Speaker 3>the country past. The expression of a visa isn't a

0:59:04.040 --> 0:59:07.480
<v Speaker 3>crime exactly. So though these people are brained as quote

0:59:07.560 --> 0:59:12.200
<v Speaker 3>unquote criminal migrants, that that often is factually incorrect, if

0:59:12.240 --> 0:59:15.840
<v Speaker 3>factually incorrect even matters anymore, which it increasingly does not,

0:59:16.040 --> 0:59:16.520
<v Speaker 3>it seems.

0:59:16.680 --> 0:59:19.040
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, And I mean, as you said, we know that

0:59:19.080 --> 0:59:21.640
<v Speaker 9>immigrant communities are not committing more crime than the rest

0:59:21.640 --> 0:59:22.600
<v Speaker 9>of the population, and.

0:59:22.560 --> 0:59:26.200
<v Speaker 3>So estimates would show less actually exactly because they don't

0:59:26.200 --> 0:59:27.040
<v Speaker 3>want to get deported.

0:59:27.240 --> 0:59:30.240
<v Speaker 9>And you know, again, I feel myself getting pulled back

0:59:30.280 --> 0:59:33.080
<v Speaker 9>into Trump's he he gets me go like circling the

0:59:33.160 --> 0:59:34.840
<v Speaker 9>drain with this, where it's like, well, if you really

0:59:34.840 --> 0:59:37.400
<v Speaker 9>cared about crime, you would want immigrant communities to feel

0:59:37.400 --> 0:59:39.919
<v Speaker 9>comfortable talking to believes with the understanding that they weren't

0:59:39.920 --> 0:59:41.560
<v Speaker 9>going to be deported if they reported a crime, or

0:59:41.560 --> 0:59:43.160
<v Speaker 9>if they witnessed a crime, or if they saw crime.

0:59:43.320 --> 0:59:44.280
<v Speaker 10>But again, it's.

0:59:44.080 --> 0:59:45.720
<v Speaker 9>Not really about crime, so I don't have to I

0:59:45.760 --> 0:59:47.240
<v Speaker 9>don't have to get myself pulled into.

0:59:47.120 --> 0:59:50.439
<v Speaker 3>That, no, because it's entirely racialized. That's like the big

0:59:50.480 --> 0:59:53.240
<v Speaker 3>common denominator here, even with the anti crime narrative and

0:59:53.320 --> 0:59:56.360
<v Speaker 3>the immigration stuff, is that it's all racialized violence.

0:59:56.640 --> 0:59:59.320
<v Speaker 9>Yes, And I mean, I'm glad that you brought that up,

0:59:59.360 --> 1:00:02.280
<v Speaker 9>just as a personal I live in Columbia Heights, which

1:00:02.360 --> 1:00:06.520
<v Speaker 9>is a heavily black and brown neighborhood, a very thriving

1:00:06.600 --> 1:00:10.720
<v Speaker 9>Latino population, and it really just has been awful.

1:00:11.000 --> 1:00:11.200
<v Speaker 10>Right.

1:00:11.240 --> 1:00:14.400
<v Speaker 9>I live on a very busy street that runs right

1:00:14.440 --> 1:00:18.560
<v Speaker 9>through the city, and like checkpoints on either side of

1:00:18.600 --> 1:00:20.760
<v Speaker 9>my street, and I was listening to. I think it

1:00:20.840 --> 1:00:23.680
<v Speaker 9>was a Kara Swisher podcast, and she also lives in DC,

1:00:24.000 --> 1:00:26.680
<v Speaker 9>and she was saying, oh, well, I haven't really noticed

1:00:26.720 --> 1:00:28.840
<v Speaker 9>any big changes, and I'm thinking.

1:00:29.080 --> 1:00:32.000
<v Speaker 3>Kara, Yeah, yeah, I bet, I bet you aren't noticing

1:00:32.040 --> 1:00:32.760
<v Speaker 3>many changes.

1:00:32.960 --> 1:00:35.840
<v Speaker 10>Yeah, I bet you haven't noticed any changes. And yeah.

1:00:35.880 --> 1:00:37.680
<v Speaker 10>I mean I've lived in DC most of my whole life.

1:00:37.720 --> 1:00:41.720
<v Speaker 9>I've never seen checkpoints where people are physically dragged out

1:00:41.720 --> 1:00:45.280
<v Speaker 9>of cars and in this way. So I mean, if

1:00:45.320 --> 1:00:49.080
<v Speaker 9>you don't live in a neighborhood like this, you might

1:00:49.360 --> 1:00:50.960
<v Speaker 9>be able to get away with saying, oh, I haven't

1:00:51.040 --> 1:00:53.400
<v Speaker 9>seen any big changes, or nothing's really changed, or maybe

1:00:53.400 --> 1:00:55.880
<v Speaker 9>I just see the National Guard when I leave my house.

1:00:56.040 --> 1:00:59.240
<v Speaker 9>But in neighborhoods like mine, the change is very real,

1:00:59.280 --> 1:00:59.960
<v Speaker 9>I'll put it that way.

1:01:00.560 --> 1:01:02.000
<v Speaker 10>So you brought up.

1:01:01.920 --> 1:01:04.960
<v Speaker 9>The mayor, which I did want to briefly touch on.

1:01:05.560 --> 1:01:07.760
<v Speaker 9>I have been called out on this very podcast for

1:01:07.880 --> 1:01:10.680
<v Speaker 9>being too sympathetic to our mayor, which is actually funny

1:01:10.720 --> 1:01:13.080
<v Speaker 9>to me because on my other podcast, all we do

1:01:13.160 --> 1:01:15.160
<v Speaker 9>is call her out. But the point that I have

1:01:15.520 --> 1:01:18.240
<v Speaker 9>tried to make, and I think this is the nature

1:01:18.240 --> 1:01:21.640
<v Speaker 9>of that critique, is that I do think it is

1:01:21.680 --> 1:01:24.280
<v Speaker 9>important that people understand that our lack of statehood in

1:01:24.360 --> 1:01:26.920
<v Speaker 9>DC does put our mayor in a position where her

1:01:26.920 --> 1:01:29.240
<v Speaker 9>authority is just realistically a lot more limited than other

1:01:29.280 --> 1:01:35.960
<v Speaker 9>elected officials. But even in that situation with realistically limited authority,

1:01:36.360 --> 1:01:39.080
<v Speaker 9>her play here has been cozying up to Trump. And

1:01:39.120 --> 1:01:41.280
<v Speaker 9>that is one hundred percent a choice. Yeah, that is

1:01:41.320 --> 1:01:44.480
<v Speaker 9>not something that other elected officials in DC have done.

1:01:44.760 --> 1:01:47.320
<v Speaker 9>That is one hundred percent a choice.

1:01:47.320 --> 1:01:50.600
<v Speaker 3>And it's a choice in an attempt in some ways

1:01:50.680 --> 1:01:54.040
<v Speaker 3>to diffuse the situation to not have Trump escalate, to

1:01:54.040 --> 1:01:59.000
<v Speaker 3>not go into a even more like legally uncharted territory,

1:01:59.080 --> 1:02:01.880
<v Speaker 3>right to accelerate the conflict. And I think a lot

1:02:01.920 --> 1:02:06.240
<v Speaker 3>of people who are critiquing this move actually would be

1:02:06.320 --> 1:02:09.520
<v Speaker 3>very interested in this point, in accelerating this conflict, seeing

1:02:09.520 --> 1:02:13.320
<v Speaker 3>what Trump will actually do stress tests even more of

1:02:13.320 --> 1:02:16.760
<v Speaker 3>our democracy, and a lot of people are interested in

1:02:17.160 --> 1:02:19.840
<v Speaker 3>watching the results of that happen. And I can see

1:02:19.920 --> 1:02:22.880
<v Speaker 3>how someone like Bowser doesn't want to do that, but

1:02:22.960 --> 1:02:25.600
<v Speaker 3>that opens her up for a lot of critique. And

1:02:25.880 --> 1:02:28.320
<v Speaker 3>I'm interested in what you said about like other city officials,

1:02:28.160 --> 1:02:30.760
<v Speaker 3>That's not something I've heard as much about, is her

1:02:31.280 --> 1:02:35.040
<v Speaker 3>kind of cooperating with Trump compared to the stance of

1:02:35.320 --> 1:02:36.680
<v Speaker 3>other city officials.

1:02:37.160 --> 1:02:40.440
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, I mean, look at DC's Attorney General Brian Schwab,

1:02:40.480 --> 1:02:43.440
<v Speaker 9>who has been out here suing the Trump administration somewhat

1:02:43.480 --> 1:02:49.080
<v Speaker 9>successfully and has been a much more obvious fighter for DC. Right, So, like,

1:02:49.440 --> 1:02:51.560
<v Speaker 9>he is certainly not playing nice. He's like, Oh, we're

1:02:51.600 --> 1:02:53.680
<v Speaker 9>gonna fight this in the courts. If you want to

1:02:53.720 --> 1:02:55.240
<v Speaker 9>try to take over our city, we will see you

1:02:55.280 --> 1:02:58.320
<v Speaker 9>in court. I'm so curious what the conversations are like

1:02:58.360 --> 1:03:01.160
<v Speaker 9>between Bowser and Schwab, But it just reveals to me

1:03:01.240 --> 1:03:04.600
<v Speaker 9>that capitulating and cozying up. I'm not gonna say it's

1:03:04.680 --> 1:03:07.520
<v Speaker 9>not a strategy, but it's certainly a choice. And to

1:03:07.560 --> 1:03:10.840
<v Speaker 9>your point earlier, there are definitely people who say, hey,

1:03:10.880 --> 1:03:14.640
<v Speaker 9>she's playing nice with Trump. D C still has home rule,

1:03:14.840 --> 1:03:18.640
<v Speaker 9>DC still has a mayor, and the crime emergency has ended.

1:03:18.640 --> 1:03:21.479
<v Speaker 9>Those are all good things, And being a resident of DC,

1:03:22.040 --> 1:03:24.640
<v Speaker 9>I will happily say I don't want to see how

1:03:24.680 --> 1:03:27.320
<v Speaker 9>far Trump will go on this. I want this to end.

1:03:27.360 --> 1:03:30.880
<v Speaker 9>I want you know, I'm not someone who was like, yeah, like,

1:03:31.400 --> 1:03:32.360
<v Speaker 9>let the chips fall.

1:03:32.200 --> 1:03:32.840
<v Speaker 3>Where they may.

1:03:33.280 --> 1:03:35.960
<v Speaker 9>I want my trash picked up, I want my you know,

1:03:36.040 --> 1:03:38.040
<v Speaker 9>my neighbors' kids to be able to go to school.

1:03:38.040 --> 1:03:41.280
<v Speaker 9>All of that, I'm not that's understandable. Yeah, yeah, it's

1:03:41.320 --> 1:03:45.680
<v Speaker 9>the complex thing. I do think that, you know, early

1:03:45.760 --> 1:03:50.280
<v Speaker 9>on in this, Bowser was talking about how crime in

1:03:50.400 --> 1:03:54.200
<v Speaker 9>DC was down, and then Trump said on social media, oh,

1:03:54.280 --> 1:03:57.440
<v Speaker 9>Bowser better get her story straight on the crime numbers

1:03:57.520 --> 1:04:00.480
<v Speaker 9>or things are gonna get worse. And days later she

1:04:00.640 --> 1:04:02.440
<v Speaker 9>was taking in a very different tune. She did a

1:04:02.480 --> 1:04:05.200
<v Speaker 9>press conference where she thanked the federal government. She did

1:04:05.200 --> 1:04:08.880
<v Speaker 9>stop short of thanking Trump specifically, but thanking the federal

1:04:08.960 --> 1:04:10.360
<v Speaker 9>government for helping DC.

1:04:10.320 --> 1:04:11.360
<v Speaker 10>With the crime issue.

1:04:11.480 --> 1:04:13.480
<v Speaker 9>And I guess to somebody who's been following Bowser for

1:04:13.520 --> 1:04:16.960
<v Speaker 9>as long as I have, it wasn't terribly surprising in

1:04:17.000 --> 1:04:19.400
<v Speaker 9>an episode I did of it could happen here. I

1:04:19.400 --> 1:04:22.920
<v Speaker 9>think back in January we talked about how her stance

1:04:23.000 --> 1:04:26.000
<v Speaker 9>with Trump this time around was like concession after concession

1:04:26.000 --> 1:04:28.280
<v Speaker 9>after concession, So it wasn't surprising.

1:04:28.640 --> 1:04:30.800
<v Speaker 3>This falls in line with that, I guess.

1:04:30.400 --> 1:04:33.880
<v Speaker 9>Correct, And I do think that people need to understand

1:04:33.920 --> 1:04:37.479
<v Speaker 9>that in a lot of ways Bowser and I don't

1:04:37.520 --> 1:04:39.280
<v Speaker 9>mean this in the way that it's going to sound,

1:04:39.280 --> 1:04:42.960
<v Speaker 9>but like I do think that there is alignment between

1:04:43.040 --> 1:04:45.760
<v Speaker 9>Bowser and Trump on a lot of issues, crime potentially

1:04:45.800 --> 1:04:47.640
<v Speaker 9>being one of them. Right, when we were talking about

1:04:47.640 --> 1:04:53.720
<v Speaker 9>how Trump wanted Bowser to dismantle encampments in DC, it

1:04:53.840 --> 1:04:56.040
<v Speaker 9>wasn't like Bowser as some friend to the homeless.

1:04:56.040 --> 1:04:56.960
<v Speaker 3>No no, no, no.

1:04:57.320 --> 1:04:58.120
<v Speaker 10>Yeah, like the.

1:04:58.160 --> 1:05:02.080
<v Speaker 9>Specific encampment in question already had plans to demolish, just

1:05:02.160 --> 1:05:04.400
<v Speaker 9>later on on a slower timeline.

1:05:04.840 --> 1:05:08.600
<v Speaker 3>There is a class alignment among people in the political

1:05:08.720 --> 1:05:09.800
<v Speaker 3>quote unquote elite.

1:05:09.960 --> 1:05:10.120
<v Speaker 12>Right.

1:05:10.200 --> 1:05:14.480
<v Speaker 3>You can look at Gavin Newsom's extreme anti homeless policies

1:05:15.040 --> 1:05:18.200
<v Speaker 3>and compare that to Trump's extreme anti homeless policies, and yeah,

1:05:18.240 --> 1:05:21.280
<v Speaker 3>they have class alignment on that issue, even if Gavin

1:05:21.400 --> 1:05:24.600
<v Speaker 3>might be against Trump on some other issues, though he

1:05:25.080 --> 1:05:28.040
<v Speaker 3>has his own fair share of concessions to Trump.

1:05:28.520 --> 1:05:30.120
<v Speaker 10>Oh you said it, friend.

1:05:30.520 --> 1:05:32.480
<v Speaker 3>Also, I like that I'm on a first name basis

1:05:32.520 --> 1:05:32.960
<v Speaker 3>with Gavin.

1:05:33.080 --> 1:05:34.160
<v Speaker 10>I know, gab.

1:05:35.520 --> 1:05:38.280
<v Speaker 3>Podcaster solidarity and as we've seen the past week, podcaster

1:05:38.360 --> 1:05:39.840
<v Speaker 3>solidarity most important thing.

1:05:39.960 --> 1:05:43.920
<v Speaker 9>Ooh yes, oh yes, Also, fellow, iHeart podcaster.

1:05:44.040 --> 1:05:48.440
<v Speaker 3>I believe for Gavin. Yeah, yeah, I hope he joins

1:05:48.480 --> 1:05:48.920
<v Speaker 3>the union.

1:05:49.400 --> 1:05:49.600
<v Speaker 13>Yeah.

1:05:49.720 --> 1:05:50.000
<v Speaker 10>Same.

1:05:50.800 --> 1:05:52.720
<v Speaker 9>And I guess I should say to your point about

1:05:52.720 --> 1:05:56.400
<v Speaker 9>the complexities about you know, the way that Bowser, our

1:05:56.480 --> 1:06:00.760
<v Speaker 9>mayor is playing this. It's true that it's good that

1:06:00.880 --> 1:06:03.840
<v Speaker 9>the crime emergency has ended, that DC still has home rule,

1:06:03.840 --> 1:06:05.480
<v Speaker 9>we still have a mayor, we saw the city council

1:06:05.520 --> 1:06:08.080
<v Speaker 9>as of today. And even if you will say, like,

1:06:08.120 --> 1:06:11.000
<v Speaker 9>well that's you know, the mayor CosIng up with Trump,

1:06:11.040 --> 1:06:13.200
<v Speaker 9>like you have that to thank that's why that's happening.

1:06:13.840 --> 1:06:17.600
<v Speaker 9>Our mayor is really making no friends with other black

1:06:17.640 --> 1:06:20.040
<v Speaker 9>mayors in cities like Chicago and Baltimore.

1:06:20.040 --> 1:06:20.680
<v Speaker 6>I have to assume.

1:06:20.800 --> 1:06:23.720
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, when she does press conferences where she talks about

1:06:23.720 --> 1:06:25.840
<v Speaker 9>how having federal troops in DC has been good for

1:06:25.880 --> 1:06:28.160
<v Speaker 9>the city, how crime has gone down, when you have

1:06:28.200 --> 1:06:30.479
<v Speaker 9>these other cities that are currently trying to fend off

1:06:30.640 --> 1:06:34.000
<v Speaker 9>federal takeovers from Trump. So even if her CosIng up

1:06:34.040 --> 1:06:36.360
<v Speaker 9>with Trump has led to d C specifically being able

1:06:36.400 --> 1:06:39.800
<v Speaker 9>to enjoy home rule for another day, at what cost

1:06:39.920 --> 1:06:42.440
<v Speaker 9>if it enables Trump's actions in other cities.

1:06:42.480 --> 1:06:45.040
<v Speaker 3>You know, me putting on my skull mask as I

1:06:45.240 --> 1:06:50.560
<v Speaker 3>bring out my chess spoarding the accelerationist collapse of DC

1:06:50.680 --> 1:06:53.120
<v Speaker 3>and how that affects a larger political situation in the

1:06:53.200 --> 1:06:57.000
<v Speaker 3>United States. Yes, how much how much of DC am

1:06:57.000 --> 1:06:59.600
<v Speaker 3>I willing to sacrifice to see how far Trump will go.

1:07:00.400 --> 1:07:01.640
<v Speaker 10>Yeah, it's tough.

1:07:01.640 --> 1:07:05.360
<v Speaker 9>It's complicated because obviously, as a DC resident, I want

1:07:05.800 --> 1:07:09.520
<v Speaker 9>to have a safe and peaceful existence for myself here

1:07:09.520 --> 1:07:11.920
<v Speaker 9>in DC. But it's not happening in a vacuum, and

1:07:11.960 --> 1:07:13.320
<v Speaker 9>so I also have to think about, you know, the

1:07:13.400 --> 1:07:15.200
<v Speaker 9>national implications for other cities.

1:07:15.600 --> 1:07:18.919
<v Speaker 10>And you know, I don't envy our mayor.

1:07:19.000 --> 1:07:21.760
<v Speaker 3>I guess I don't envy many mayors. Oh.

1:07:21.920 --> 1:07:24.960
<v Speaker 9>I am firmly believe if you want to become the

1:07:25.000 --> 1:07:27.680
<v Speaker 9>mayor of a city like DC, Baltimore, Chicago, something has

1:07:27.720 --> 1:07:28.320
<v Speaker 9>to be wrong with you.

1:07:28.440 --> 1:07:32.080
<v Speaker 3>And Bridget Todd has come out against Zorn Mamdani officially

1:07:32.600 --> 1:07:33.920
<v Speaker 3>could happen here podcast?

1:07:33.920 --> 1:07:38.920
<v Speaker 9>No, no, no, I'm just saying I mean, yeah, I'll say it.

1:07:39.000 --> 1:07:40.760
<v Speaker 3>Who wants a job like that though? It sounds like

1:07:40.760 --> 1:07:41.520
<v Speaker 3>a nightmare. Yeah.

1:07:41.560 --> 1:07:43.880
<v Speaker 9>I and a friend who was like vying to be

1:07:44.120 --> 1:07:46.840
<v Speaker 9>the head of comms for the Baltimore Police Department, and

1:07:46.880 --> 1:07:49.040
<v Speaker 9>I was like, wow, you are a massacre.

1:07:49.080 --> 1:07:51.000
<v Speaker 3>That's even weirder, that's even weirder.

1:07:51.200 --> 1:07:52.560
<v Speaker 10>Yeah, that's like the I.

1:07:52.800 --> 1:07:58.760
<v Speaker 9>Can't imagine to never know peace and not get into heaven.

1:08:00.200 --> 1:08:02.280
<v Speaker 10>Listening and thinking, oh, why she's talking shit about me?

1:08:02.680 --> 1:08:07.000
<v Speaker 9>And so it is complicated, and I do think it's

1:08:07.040 --> 1:08:10.080
<v Speaker 9>important as important as much as I want DC to

1:08:10.200 --> 1:08:13.160
<v Speaker 9>be a safe place where I can walk outside and

1:08:13.200 --> 1:08:15.640
<v Speaker 9>not see people getting dragged out of cars and federal

1:08:15.720 --> 1:08:17.640
<v Speaker 9>checkpoints and all of that, we do need to think

1:08:17.680 --> 1:08:20.439
<v Speaker 9>about the larger picture here. And people that I've talked

1:08:20.479 --> 1:08:23.720
<v Speaker 9>to with regards to the mayor, they tell me that, oh,

1:08:23.800 --> 1:08:27.519
<v Speaker 9>it seems like she is just not interested in the

1:08:27.720 --> 1:08:30.680
<v Speaker 9>like the polling of these decisions, because the conversations that

1:08:30.720 --> 1:08:33.160
<v Speaker 9>I am having, people are not happy with her. In

1:08:33.200 --> 1:08:35.320
<v Speaker 9>the spaces I am in. The conversation is like, how

1:08:35.360 --> 1:08:38.160
<v Speaker 9>do we recall this mayor? Like, even though we might

1:08:38.200 --> 1:08:41.000
<v Speaker 9>have these sort of things that you consider victories, DC

1:08:41.320 --> 1:08:43.599
<v Speaker 9>enjoying home rule, still having a mayor, a city council,

1:08:43.640 --> 1:08:47.519
<v Speaker 9>all of that, people are really really really not happy

1:08:47.520 --> 1:09:01.439
<v Speaker 9>with our mayor. Yeah, so looking head at what's coming

1:09:01.560 --> 1:09:05.040
<v Speaker 9>up next. Even though the crime emergency is ending, this

1:09:05.120 --> 1:09:08.000
<v Speaker 9>whole thing is very far from over. The fight for

1:09:08.080 --> 1:09:11.000
<v Speaker 9>the self determination of DC is far from over in

1:09:11.080 --> 1:09:13.559
<v Speaker 9>ways that have in a lot of ways nothing to

1:09:13.640 --> 1:09:17.080
<v Speaker 9>do with Trump. There are thirteen bills in the House

1:09:17.200 --> 1:09:21.360
<v Speaker 9>aimed at directly taking action at DC. Many of them

1:09:21.439 --> 1:09:25.519
<v Speaker 9>are direct assaults on DC's home rules. There are provisions

1:09:25.560 --> 1:09:28.360
<v Speaker 9>that would make it easier for Congress to overturn DC

1:09:28.520 --> 1:09:31.080
<v Speaker 9>home rule. There are provisions that lower the age of

1:09:31.080 --> 1:09:33.040
<v Speaker 9>when you can be tried as an adult for crimes

1:09:33.080 --> 1:09:35.599
<v Speaker 9>from sixteen to fourteen. There is a provision that would

1:09:35.600 --> 1:09:39.360
<v Speaker 9>give Congress longer time to review DC's laws. Right now,

1:09:39.439 --> 1:09:41.519
<v Speaker 9>it's thirty days. They would change it to sixty days.

1:09:41.720 --> 1:09:44.320
<v Speaker 9>All of DC's laws have to go through Congress. It

1:09:44.360 --> 1:09:47.000
<v Speaker 9>is a nightmare, Like it is a whole thing. The

1:09:47.080 --> 1:09:50.160
<v Speaker 9>biggest of these bills in the House right now is

1:09:50.200 --> 1:09:54.519
<v Speaker 9>of course, wanting to overturn DC's ability for district residents

1:09:54.560 --> 1:09:57.880
<v Speaker 9>to elect our own attorney general instead of having an

1:09:57.920 --> 1:10:01.439
<v Speaker 9>attorney general appointed by Trump. If that bill were to

1:10:01.479 --> 1:10:04.519
<v Speaker 9>become law, it would mean that our current attorney general,

1:10:04.520 --> 1:10:07.400
<v Speaker 9>the person who I would argue, has sort of emerged

1:10:07.479 --> 1:10:10.040
<v Speaker 9>as the If there was a single person that you

1:10:10.040 --> 1:10:11.400
<v Speaker 9>could look at and be like, oh, this person is

1:10:12.360 --> 1:10:15.679
<v Speaker 9>trying to fight for DC's home rule and authority, Brian Schwab,

1:10:16.120 --> 1:10:18.519
<v Speaker 9>he would be fired immediately and Trump would be able

1:10:18.520 --> 1:10:21.160
<v Speaker 9>to replace him with whoever he chose, not somebody that

1:10:21.200 --> 1:10:25.040
<v Speaker 9>district residents elected or voted for or campaigned for, just

1:10:25.160 --> 1:10:28.720
<v Speaker 9>whoever Trump wanted, and that term would run concurrent with

1:10:28.840 --> 1:10:30.240
<v Speaker 9>the president of the United States.

1:10:30.280 --> 1:10:33.840
<v Speaker 10>So obviously, you know, some of these pieces.

1:10:33.439 --> 1:10:38.160
<v Speaker 9>Are not overturning home rule entirely, but they are clearly

1:10:38.479 --> 1:10:41.679
<v Speaker 9>attacks on DC's ability to govern itself and the self

1:10:41.720 --> 1:10:43.479
<v Speaker 9>determination of folks here in the district.

1:10:43.800 --> 1:10:45.800
<v Speaker 3>Are you going to discuss what's going to happen with

1:10:45.840 --> 1:10:47.920
<v Speaker 3>the Safe and Beautiful Task Force? Oh no, but I

1:10:48.000 --> 1:10:53.240
<v Speaker 3>can has passed the expiration of the order, Bowser's establishment

1:10:53.280 --> 1:10:56.800
<v Speaker 3>of the task force to continue federal cooperation. Yes, I

1:10:56.800 --> 1:10:59.799
<v Speaker 3>guess it's like one of the most immediate, like continuing

1:11:00.040 --> 1:11:03.400
<v Speaker 3>aspects of this story. And it's like unclear how much

1:11:03.479 --> 1:11:07.360
<v Speaker 3>this heightened fedral presence will last past the expiration of

1:11:07.400 --> 1:11:07.800
<v Speaker 3>the order.

1:11:08.080 --> 1:11:08.800
<v Speaker 10>So in a.

1:11:08.760 --> 1:11:12.120
<v Speaker 9>Press conference, I have to say, Bowser was pretty tight

1:11:12.240 --> 1:11:15.960
<v Speaker 9>lipped when asked directly about all of that, and so

1:11:16.320 --> 1:11:18.200
<v Speaker 9>a lot of it sounds like wade and see, like

1:11:18.240 --> 1:11:21.000
<v Speaker 9>she really did not give clear answers, and so yeah,

1:11:21.040 --> 1:11:23.639
<v Speaker 9>I walked away from that presser being just disconfused, as

1:11:23.680 --> 1:11:26.599
<v Speaker 9>you probably are, just disconfused as listeners are. I do

1:11:26.680 --> 1:11:30.360
<v Speaker 9>think in part that speaks to the unprecedented nature of

1:11:30.600 --> 1:11:32.800
<v Speaker 9>the way that Trump is dealing with DC right now.

1:11:32.840 --> 1:11:35.679
<v Speaker 9>Of like they might genuinely not know, but the fact

1:11:35.680 --> 1:11:37.920
<v Speaker 9>that the way that she has been so tight lipped.

1:11:38.240 --> 1:11:39.880
<v Speaker 9>I hate giving this answer, but I think it's a

1:11:39.920 --> 1:11:43.679
<v Speaker 9>wad and see kind of situation. Yeah, fair, Hi, this

1:11:43.720 --> 1:11:46.800
<v Speaker 9>is Future Bridget coming in on Monday night to say

1:11:46.800 --> 1:11:49.320
<v Speaker 9>that we actually got more clarity on the question of

1:11:49.360 --> 1:11:52.360
<v Speaker 9>whether or not police in DC would continue working with

1:11:52.439 --> 1:11:57.599
<v Speaker 9>federal immigration officials after DC's crime emergency ended. DC's Mayor

1:11:57.720 --> 1:12:00.760
<v Speaker 9>Muriel Bowser was still being pretty tight lipped about this

1:12:00.800 --> 1:12:02.799
<v Speaker 9>when Gary and I were speaking about it on Friday,

1:12:03.040 --> 1:12:07.160
<v Speaker 9>but on Monday, September fifteenth, it was reported that Bowser

1:12:07.200 --> 1:12:10.599
<v Speaker 9>had announced that d C's Police Department MPD would no

1:12:10.680 --> 1:12:14.519
<v Speaker 9>longer be assisting immigration officials with immigration enforcement the way

1:12:14.520 --> 1:12:18.320
<v Speaker 9>they had been during the crime emergency. Bowser said immigration

1:12:18.479 --> 1:12:21.200
<v Speaker 9>enforcement is not what MPD does, and with the end

1:12:21.240 --> 1:12:25.000
<v Speaker 9>of the emergency, it won't be what MPD does. Trump

1:12:25.320 --> 1:12:28.679
<v Speaker 9>did not like this, and on Monday, Trump renewed threats

1:12:28.680 --> 1:12:32.640
<v Speaker 9>to federalize DC's police again if the Department does not

1:12:32.760 --> 1:12:37.240
<v Speaker 9>cooperate with ICE, saying, quote under pressure from the radical

1:12:37.320 --> 1:12:41.200
<v Speaker 9>left Democrats, Mayor Muriel Bowser, who has presided over this violent,

1:12:41.320 --> 1:12:44.760
<v Speaker 9>criminal takeover of our capital for years, has informed the

1:12:44.760 --> 1:12:48.160
<v Speaker 9>federal government that the Metropolitan Police Department will no longer

1:12:48.200 --> 1:12:52.520
<v Speaker 9>cooperate with ICE in removing and relocating dangerous illegal aliens.

1:12:52.920 --> 1:12:56.280
<v Speaker 9>If I allowed this to happen, all Caps crime would

1:12:56.280 --> 1:12:59.839
<v Speaker 9>come roaring back to the people and businesses of Washington

1:13:00.080 --> 1:13:01.880
<v Speaker 9>d All caps.

1:13:01.680 --> 1:13:02.360
<v Speaker 3>Don't worry.

1:13:02.560 --> 1:13:05.200
<v Speaker 10>I am with you and won't allow this to happen.

1:13:05.520 --> 1:13:08.960
<v Speaker 9>I'll call a national emergency and federalize if necessary.

1:13:09.200 --> 1:13:11.200
<v Speaker 10>Three exclamation points.

1:13:12.120 --> 1:13:14.280
<v Speaker 9>And so I guess one of the big questions that

1:13:14.280 --> 1:13:16.479
<v Speaker 9>I've been wrestling with is what does all of this

1:13:16.600 --> 1:13:20.160
<v Speaker 9>mean for the future of DC. There was a time

1:13:20.479 --> 1:13:25.120
<v Speaker 9>where it felt like lawmakers had DC's back, but it's

1:13:25.160 --> 1:13:28.040
<v Speaker 9>really become clear that the days of DC being able

1:13:28.040 --> 1:13:31.559
<v Speaker 9>to count on the Senate and Congress are over. I

1:13:31.560 --> 1:13:33.960
<v Speaker 9>did an interview with a long time journalist here in DC,

1:13:34.120 --> 1:13:37.960
<v Speaker 9>Marxy Graves, and he reminded me that DC has really

1:13:38.000 --> 1:13:42.519
<v Speaker 9>been the most reliable jurisdiction in the country there is

1:13:42.520 --> 1:13:45.639
<v Speaker 9>for Democrats. There's no other place that has given more

1:13:45.720 --> 1:13:49.479
<v Speaker 9>electoral votes for president to Democrats every single election.

1:13:49.720 --> 1:13:51.759
<v Speaker 3>It's extremely consistent extreme.

1:13:51.920 --> 1:13:53.720
<v Speaker 10>I mean, have you seen that map where it's the

1:13:54.120 --> 1:13:55.520
<v Speaker 10>election for.

1:13:55.720 --> 1:13:58.840
<v Speaker 9>Reagan and it's a whole big splotch of red and

1:13:59.000 --> 1:14:03.200
<v Speaker 9>only I think Minnesota and DC are the only splotch

1:14:03.240 --> 1:14:08.120
<v Speaker 9>of blue. Like nobody backs Democrats like DC backs Democrats

1:14:08.160 --> 1:14:11.920
<v Speaker 9>every single time. California can't say that, Massachusetts can't say that.

1:14:12.280 --> 1:14:16.200
<v Speaker 9>And in return, the party has essentially abandoned us. They

1:14:16.280 --> 1:14:21.479
<v Speaker 9>circulated messaging nationally telling Democrats to tread carefully about how

1:14:21.520 --> 1:14:23.680
<v Speaker 9>to talk about what is clearly an attempt at a

1:14:23.720 --> 1:14:27.680
<v Speaker 9>fascist takeover of our city. DC has given Democrats this

1:14:28.080 --> 1:14:31.080
<v Speaker 9>unwavering support since we had the ability to vote in

1:14:31.120 --> 1:14:33.559
<v Speaker 9>presidential elections, which it hasn't been that long since, only

1:14:33.600 --> 1:14:36.479
<v Speaker 9>since the sixties, but still right like, and this is

1:14:36.479 --> 1:14:39.639
<v Speaker 9>how they do us. And we have known for years

1:14:39.680 --> 1:14:42.920
<v Speaker 9>that Republicans like Mike Lee and others have had their

1:14:43.000 --> 1:14:46.759
<v Speaker 9>eye on DC. They want to overturn DC rules, overturn

1:14:46.880 --> 1:14:49.720
<v Speaker 9>DC laws, even things that have nothing to do with

1:14:49.840 --> 1:14:51.759
<v Speaker 9>crime and public safety, things like abortion.

1:14:52.120 --> 1:14:54.439
<v Speaker 10>It is so clearly about control.

1:14:54.479 --> 1:14:58.160
<v Speaker 9>They have been eyeing control of DC for many many many,

1:14:58.200 --> 1:15:01.479
<v Speaker 9>many years, and now we have this big, wide, open,

1:15:01.520 --> 1:15:03.639
<v Speaker 9>breezy window allowing them to do that.

1:15:04.080 --> 1:15:07.960
<v Speaker 3>Is DC spiritually Midwestern? Because like it's sorry, that's an

1:15:07.960 --> 1:15:08.880
<v Speaker 3>insane question.

1:15:11.120 --> 1:15:13.080
<v Speaker 10>Tell me more about what you mean by.

1:15:12.920 --> 1:15:15.479
<v Speaker 3>This, because like, in some ways, you know, it is

1:15:15.520 --> 1:15:18.320
<v Speaker 3>like a coastal, elite place and it's like the you know,

1:15:18.479 --> 1:15:22.439
<v Speaker 3>the heart of political power. But DC to be always

1:15:22.479 --> 1:15:25.439
<v Speaker 3>has kind of had Midwest vibes. I don't I don't

1:15:25.479 --> 1:15:28.120
<v Speaker 3>know how to express it any other way. Maybe to

1:15:28.120 --> 1:15:30.000
<v Speaker 3>because so many people from the Midwest move to d

1:15:30.120 --> 1:15:32.320
<v Speaker 3>C to do politics work. But I'm sure people from

1:15:32.320 --> 1:15:34.479
<v Speaker 3>all over move to DC to do politics work. But

1:15:34.640 --> 1:15:37.679
<v Speaker 3>like DC and like Minneapolis feel like very similar cities

1:15:37.720 --> 1:15:38.519
<v Speaker 3>to me in some ways.

1:15:38.600 --> 1:15:39.599
<v Speaker 10>I have said this before.

1:15:39.640 --> 1:15:40.840
<v Speaker 3>See that's what I'm saying.

1:15:40.920 --> 1:15:41.680
<v Speaker 10>Yeah, I have.

1:15:41.640 --> 1:15:44.360
<v Speaker 9>Said this before, Like I think there is something to

1:15:44.520 --> 1:15:46.960
<v Speaker 9>this where And in that interview I did with Mark C.

1:15:47.080 --> 1:15:48.400
<v Speaker 10>Graves, he kind of he kind of gets at it

1:15:48.400 --> 1:15:48.840
<v Speaker 10>a little bit.

1:15:48.880 --> 1:15:51.640
<v Speaker 9>But I do think that DC is the kind of

1:15:51.640 --> 1:15:53.960
<v Speaker 9>place where you can just sort of take for granted

1:15:54.600 --> 1:15:58.559
<v Speaker 9>that I will always live in this sort of progressive city.

1:15:58.640 --> 1:15:59.920
<v Speaker 10>I will always sort of live in this.

1:16:00.200 --> 1:16:03.200
<v Speaker 9>Like I think it's easy to take things like home

1:16:03.320 --> 1:16:05.720
<v Speaker 9>rule in DC, for granted, And I think DC the

1:16:05.800 --> 1:16:07.760
<v Speaker 9>nature of DC is a little bit weird that, as

1:16:07.800 --> 1:16:10.840
<v Speaker 9>you kind of alluded to, it's a very transient city.

1:16:11.360 --> 1:16:14.240
<v Speaker 9>And so there are people living in DC who have

1:16:14.320 --> 1:16:17.240
<v Speaker 9>only known one Mayor Bowser because she's been mayor for

1:16:17.280 --> 1:16:18.000
<v Speaker 9>like ten years.

1:16:18.120 --> 1:16:18.280
<v Speaker 5>Right.

1:16:18.640 --> 1:16:21.880
<v Speaker 9>They don't know Mayor Gray, they don't know Mayor Fenti,

1:16:22.000 --> 1:16:25.880
<v Speaker 9>they don't know how kind of tenuous a lot of

1:16:25.920 --> 1:16:29.080
<v Speaker 9>what holds DC together actually is. And it can be

1:16:29.200 --> 1:16:31.960
<v Speaker 9>really easy when you're living in a city the historically

1:16:32.520 --> 1:16:37.240
<v Speaker 9>has enjoyed low unemployment, has been pretty moneyed, is pretty progressive.

1:16:37.560 --> 1:16:39.960
<v Speaker 9>The kinds of fights that we were having in DC

1:16:40.120 --> 1:16:43.240
<v Speaker 9>before all this started, they seem so quaint now, bike

1:16:43.360 --> 1:16:46.360
<v Speaker 9>lanes tipped minimum wage, like all of these you know,

1:16:46.439 --> 1:16:48.640
<v Speaker 9>it is it is sort of like Minneapolis in a

1:16:48.720 --> 1:16:49.080
<v Speaker 9>kind of way.

1:16:49.080 --> 1:16:50.040
<v Speaker 10>You're not You're not wrong.

1:16:50.520 --> 1:16:53.160
<v Speaker 3>Well, I'm glad, I'm glad my vibes meter is still

1:16:53.680 --> 1:16:54.720
<v Speaker 3>accurately attute.

1:16:56.280 --> 1:16:59.439
<v Speaker 9>Yes, And I did want to spend a little bit

1:16:59.479 --> 1:17:01.920
<v Speaker 9>of time talking about to protests and pushback that we've

1:17:01.960 --> 1:17:05.240
<v Speaker 9>seen because DC has not taken this quietly. There was

1:17:05.280 --> 1:17:07.960
<v Speaker 9>a massive protest in March that I will say, I'm

1:17:08.000 --> 1:17:09.519
<v Speaker 9>a little sad that it didn't get.

1:17:09.360 --> 1:17:10.679
<v Speaker 10>More national coverage.

1:17:10.720 --> 1:17:13.280
<v Speaker 9>Weirdly, it got a lot of international coverage, but not

1:17:13.360 --> 1:17:16.160
<v Speaker 9>a ton of national coverage, which is sort of part

1:17:16.200 --> 1:17:21.080
<v Speaker 9>and parcel for DC. So many national outlets only think

1:17:21.120 --> 1:17:24.200
<v Speaker 9>about DC when it comes to federal implications, and when

1:17:24.200 --> 1:17:26.400
<v Speaker 9>it comes to what's happening locally in our streets and

1:17:26.400 --> 1:17:29.040
<v Speaker 9>at Malcolm X Park and all of that, they're like DC,

1:17:29.200 --> 1:17:32.400
<v Speaker 9>who we don't know her? So like that protest was

1:17:32.640 --> 1:17:36.320
<v Speaker 9>quite moving. We also have local groups like Harriet's Wildest

1:17:36.400 --> 1:17:39.800
<v Speaker 9>Dreams and Free DC who are great resources. Free DC

1:17:40.520 --> 1:17:42.920
<v Speaker 9>a lot of their work has been at the community level,

1:17:43.280 --> 1:17:46.560
<v Speaker 9>leading things like cop watching trainings, like training residents to

1:17:46.640 --> 1:17:50.799
<v Speaker 9>film enforcement stops, which when you consider what Kayu Armis

1:17:50.800 --> 1:17:53.639
<v Speaker 9>told me from the Washington Post about how these immigration

1:17:54.000 --> 1:17:57.400
<v Speaker 9>detensions and arrests are often just a black box. We've

1:17:57.400 --> 1:18:01.000
<v Speaker 9>seen video where a resident is being detail by immigration

1:18:01.040 --> 1:18:04.000
<v Speaker 9>officials and they are speaking to the person recording like

1:18:04.040 --> 1:18:06.760
<v Speaker 9>please record this, please record this, you know, And so

1:18:06.800 --> 1:18:09.959
<v Speaker 9>I do think like things like that are super important

1:18:09.960 --> 1:18:13.320
<v Speaker 9>when you're dealing with, you know, this black box dynamic

1:18:13.400 --> 1:18:15.439
<v Speaker 9>of immigration detensions and arrests.

1:18:15.960 --> 1:18:20.280
<v Speaker 10>We also have things like educating residents on their legal rights.

1:18:20.560 --> 1:18:22.559
<v Speaker 10>And this is like a weird saying in DC.

1:18:22.800 --> 1:18:26.200
<v Speaker 9>DC has a ton of parks, actually more parks than

1:18:26.200 --> 1:18:29.439
<v Speaker 9>any other part of the country. We're consistently voted the

1:18:29.520 --> 1:18:33.040
<v Speaker 9>number one city in the country for parks, and so

1:18:33.280 --> 1:18:37.080
<v Speaker 9>because DC is just a wonky place, sometimes you don't

1:18:37.120 --> 1:18:40.600
<v Speaker 9>know if you're on federal versus city property. So you

1:18:40.600 --> 1:18:42.839
<v Speaker 9>can find yourself in a park that's just a tiny

1:18:42.960 --> 1:18:47.000
<v Speaker 9>little triangle of grass. Oh no, you're actually on federal property.

1:18:47.080 --> 1:18:49.320
<v Speaker 9>So if you get arrested there, you're actually in a

1:18:49.360 --> 1:18:52.160
<v Speaker 9>federal jurisdiction, even though you're miles from the White House

1:18:52.200 --> 1:18:53.519
<v Speaker 9>and you thought like, oh, I'm just hanging on in

1:18:53.520 --> 1:18:56.960
<v Speaker 9>a public park. So we have seen local activist groups

1:18:57.000 --> 1:19:00.800
<v Speaker 9>and organized in groups really try to educate folks on

1:19:00.920 --> 1:19:03.120
<v Speaker 9>their rights and some of those distinctions of like, hey,

1:19:03.120 --> 1:19:05.599
<v Speaker 9>if you commit a crime here, you're technically on federal

1:19:05.640 --> 1:19:08.000
<v Speaker 9>property and you should understand that. And I wanted to

1:19:08.439 --> 1:19:11.280
<v Speaker 9>mention this because I do think it's easier to think

1:19:11.280 --> 1:19:15.680
<v Speaker 9>of resistance as this big, loud, visible thing happening in

1:19:15.720 --> 1:19:19.120
<v Speaker 9>the streets and as moving and powerful as that big

1:19:19.160 --> 1:19:21.920
<v Speaker 9>protest was so far. I think a lot of the

1:19:22.320 --> 1:19:25.600
<v Speaker 9>powerful resistance has been community oriented.

1:19:25.720 --> 1:19:25.920
<v Speaker 7>Right.

1:19:26.280 --> 1:19:30.200
<v Speaker 9>It's not as exciting as you know, being out on

1:19:30.240 --> 1:19:32.959
<v Speaker 9>the streets necessarily, but it is no less important.

1:19:33.520 --> 1:19:37.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, The non flashy stuff often goes under recognized.

1:19:37.479 --> 1:19:40.280
<v Speaker 9>Yeah. And I will also say that folks might know

1:19:40.360 --> 1:19:43.560
<v Speaker 9>DC has its own style of music called go go,

1:19:43.760 --> 1:19:48.000
<v Speaker 9>which is sort of a fitty local artistic expression of

1:19:48.280 --> 1:19:51.080
<v Speaker 9>music here. And I've even seen groups like Harriots and

1:19:51.080 --> 1:19:54.960
<v Speaker 9>Wildest Dreams trying to organize joyful go go jams in

1:19:55.000 --> 1:19:59.439
<v Speaker 9>public spaces just to remind folks that joy is also

1:19:59.439 --> 1:20:01.320
<v Speaker 9>part of brasils, Just so that the only thing that

1:20:01.360 --> 1:20:04.400
<v Speaker 9>we're talking about is not defending our cities and being

1:20:04.479 --> 1:20:06.720
<v Speaker 9>on the defense, but also reconnecting to the things that

1:20:06.760 --> 1:20:11.439
<v Speaker 9>make our cities joyful and exciting and and and lovely

1:20:11.520 --> 1:20:14.400
<v Speaker 9>places to be. And I think it has been important

1:20:14.479 --> 1:20:18.120
<v Speaker 9>to me, when you're sick to death of reporting about

1:20:18.479 --> 1:20:21.519
<v Speaker 9>all of this, also getting to remember that.

1:20:22.080 --> 1:20:22.960
<v Speaker 10>Joy is part of it.

1:20:23.000 --> 1:20:24.960
<v Speaker 9>That's like why we're doing this, so that we can

1:20:25.200 --> 1:20:26.920
<v Speaker 9>experience joy in our cities.

1:20:27.439 --> 1:20:32.160
<v Speaker 3>Yes, I agree, we will allow a little bit of joy,

1:20:32.240 --> 1:20:35.719
<v Speaker 3>I suppose in this stace. Yeah, semi joyful time.

1:20:36.400 --> 1:20:37.360
<v Speaker 10>Yeah, a tiny bit.

1:20:37.600 --> 1:20:39.439
<v Speaker 9>I will speaking of joy I wanted to end on

1:20:39.439 --> 1:20:43.519
<v Speaker 9>one last teeny tiny little tidbit about resistance, which is

1:20:43.520 --> 1:20:45.559
<v Speaker 9>that when I when we were talking last time, Gare,

1:20:46.000 --> 1:20:48.639
<v Speaker 9>I told you I think this was like the day

1:20:48.920 --> 1:20:51.639
<v Speaker 9>that the takeover was announced, there was that guy who

1:20:51.720 --> 1:20:56.160
<v Speaker 9>threw a sandwich at the Yes, yes, well they popped

1:20:56.160 --> 1:21:00.519
<v Speaker 9>this dude on felony charges, but DC's grand jury failed

1:21:00.520 --> 1:21:02.760
<v Speaker 9>to indict, and now he's down to a misdemeanor, so

1:21:02.960 --> 1:21:04.680
<v Speaker 9>he pled not guilty I think, just a couple of

1:21:04.760 --> 1:21:06.480
<v Speaker 9>days ago to just a misdemeanor.

1:21:06.520 --> 1:21:10.519
<v Speaker 10>So yeah, I mean grand jury's they used to say.

1:21:10.360 --> 1:21:12.200
<v Speaker 9>Like, oh, you could get a grand jury ton byte

1:21:12.240 --> 1:21:15.320
<v Speaker 9>a ham sandwich, I guess not if it's thrown at

1:21:15.360 --> 1:21:17.400
<v Speaker 9>a federal office, or you can't not in DC.

1:21:18.439 --> 1:21:20.880
<v Speaker 3>It's just like the only good piece of grand jury

1:21:20.920 --> 1:21:23.439
<v Speaker 3>news I have kind of ever heard in my life.

1:21:24.360 --> 1:21:26.160
<v Speaker 3>Whenever I hear news of it a grand jury, it's

1:21:26.160 --> 1:21:29.400
<v Speaker 3>always like terrible, like, oh no, that sounds awful. Yeah,

1:21:29.400 --> 1:21:33.280
<v Speaker 3>this is uh the first, the first based grand jury

1:21:33.360 --> 1:21:34.160
<v Speaker 3>I've ever seen.

1:21:34.920 --> 1:21:36.000
<v Speaker 10>Yes, yes, I.

1:21:35.920 --> 1:21:38.160
<v Speaker 9>Mean if you're listening in if you're listening in DC

1:21:38.200 --> 1:21:39.519
<v Speaker 9>and you're on a grand jury, you know what to

1:21:39.560 --> 1:21:39.880
<v Speaker 9>do well?

1:21:39.920 --> 1:21:44.160
<v Speaker 10>Does Souths put it that way? But yeah, that's all

1:21:44.240 --> 1:21:45.240
<v Speaker 10>I have really.

1:21:45.400 --> 1:21:47.240
<v Speaker 9>I would just say, you know, if you happen to

1:21:47.280 --> 1:21:49.520
<v Speaker 9>be listening in a place that is not the district,

1:21:50.080 --> 1:21:53.200
<v Speaker 9>we really need your voice. You know, when stuff happens,

1:21:53.240 --> 1:21:55.960
<v Speaker 9>there's not really anybody I can call. We have a

1:21:56.040 --> 1:21:58.240
<v Speaker 9>congressional representative, Eleanor Holmes Norton.

1:21:58.800 --> 1:21:58.960
<v Speaker 7>Uh.

1:22:00.160 --> 1:22:02.920
<v Speaker 10>She has been a.

1:22:01.880 --> 1:22:07.320
<v Speaker 9>Lifelong fighter for d C and d c's self determination

1:22:07.439 --> 1:22:11.080
<v Speaker 9>and civil rights. She is also i think the second

1:22:11.160 --> 1:22:15.559
<v Speaker 9>oldest person in Congress, And I'll just say it's showing

1:22:16.120 --> 1:22:18.840
<v Speaker 9>I think, you know, we don't really have a lot

1:22:18.840 --> 1:22:22.720
<v Speaker 9>of people who are fighting for us and being a

1:22:22.800 --> 1:22:26.280
<v Speaker 9>voice for us. And so yeah, stay checked in to

1:22:26.439 --> 1:22:30.559
<v Speaker 9>d C. Even if Trump moves to you know, deploy

1:22:30.680 --> 1:22:33.599
<v Speaker 9>national guards in other places, other kinds of takeovers. What's

1:22:33.600 --> 1:22:35.960
<v Speaker 9>happening in DC is unique. It cannot happen in any

1:22:36.040 --> 1:22:39.680
<v Speaker 9>other place in the country. And we're so often overlooked

1:22:39.680 --> 1:22:44.480
<v Speaker 9>and ignored. And so if there are bills moving through Congress,

1:22:44.720 --> 1:22:48.200
<v Speaker 9>call your Congress people and please advocate for the self

1:22:48.200 --> 1:22:51.519
<v Speaker 9>determination of DC residents because we have no one to

1:22:51.840 --> 1:22:54.439
<v Speaker 9>advocate for on our behalf, so please be our voice.

1:22:54.640 --> 1:22:58.200
<v Speaker 3>Thank you for talking about DC once again. Bridget. Where

1:22:58.240 --> 1:23:00.879
<v Speaker 3>can people find you online and your other shows?

1:23:01.240 --> 1:23:04.519
<v Speaker 9>You can check me out on my podcast. There are

1:23:04.560 --> 1:23:07.400
<v Speaker 9>no girls on the internet. On iHeartRadio, a co host

1:23:07.400 --> 1:23:10.679
<v Speaker 9>a podcast called Citycast DC about local happenings and politics

1:23:10.680 --> 1:23:12.599
<v Speaker 9>and news and DC. You can check that out. I'm

1:23:12.640 --> 1:23:15.479
<v Speaker 9>on Instagram at Bridget Marie DC. I'm on TikTok at

1:23:15.479 --> 1:23:17.720
<v Speaker 9>Bridget Marie DC, and I'm on YouTube. There are no

1:23:17.840 --> 1:23:18.920
<v Speaker 9>girls on the internet.

1:23:19.040 --> 1:23:22.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's right, Okay, cool, I'm glad we figured that out,

1:23:22.320 --> 1:23:22.599
<v Speaker 3>all right.

1:23:22.600 --> 1:23:24.920
<v Speaker 9>No, I just YouTube is is like a sesspool. I'm

1:23:24.960 --> 1:23:26.200
<v Speaker 9>bringing my best out there.

1:23:26.280 --> 1:23:43.280
<v Speaker 14>So true?

1:23:44.560 --> 1:23:45.000
<v Speaker 3>What up?

1:23:45.120 --> 1:23:47.639
<v Speaker 15>It could happen here? It's your favorite cousin prop. Y'all

1:23:47.680 --> 1:23:49.519
<v Speaker 15>already know what it is. I'm about to black this

1:23:49.680 --> 1:23:55.840
<v Speaker 15>mug up because y'all don't be blacking it up enough anyway.

1:23:57.080 --> 1:24:01.519
<v Speaker 15>All over our country there's this sort of nar around crime,

1:24:01.640 --> 1:24:05.840
<v Speaker 15>which is verifiably false. We also understand that a lot

1:24:05.840 --> 1:24:09.280
<v Speaker 15>of times the feeling of crime and safety is a

1:24:09.280 --> 1:24:11.120
<v Speaker 15>lot of times it's a vibe like it's kind of

1:24:11.120 --> 1:24:13.200
<v Speaker 15>how it feels. You could tell me the crime rates

1:24:13.200 --> 1:24:16.080
<v Speaker 15>is down across America, but in my city, if I

1:24:16.080 --> 1:24:19.040
<v Speaker 15>still feel like you know I'm saying not safe or safe,

1:24:19.080 --> 1:24:21.880
<v Speaker 15>you know your perception of that. Anyway, what I'm trying

1:24:21.920 --> 1:24:28.200
<v Speaker 15>to make is there are truly verifiable, data driven ways

1:24:28.520 --> 1:24:31.759
<v Speaker 15>to actually create safety and reduce harm in a city,

1:24:32.400 --> 1:24:36.400
<v Speaker 15>and a lot of that is around trust and services.

1:24:36.600 --> 1:24:38.920
<v Speaker 15>So what I decided to do, y'all is to bring

1:24:39.000 --> 1:24:43.000
<v Speaker 15>y'all who I lovingly called the nipsey hustle of Saint Louis,

1:24:44.120 --> 1:24:46.439
<v Speaker 15>Ladies and gentleman. Can I introduce you to the homeboy

1:24:46.479 --> 1:24:49.600
<v Speaker 15>thistle with the red shirt on? Well, look, man, you

1:24:49.720 --> 1:24:50.800
<v Speaker 15>already flamed up.

1:24:51.160 --> 1:24:55.160
<v Speaker 3>I wasn't going to bring up the flame of it all.

1:24:56.479 --> 1:25:00.000
<v Speaker 7>I'm like, gotta throw the red shirt off of problem.

1:25:00.120 --> 1:25:01.479
<v Speaker 7>Oh man, happy to.

1:25:01.479 --> 1:25:04.120
<v Speaker 3>Be here, Man, We happy to have you.

1:25:04.160 --> 1:25:04.280
<v Speaker 8>Bro.

1:25:04.360 --> 1:25:05.920
<v Speaker 15>That was the one that's funny because that's the one

1:25:06.080 --> 1:25:07.559
<v Speaker 15>asterisk next to your name with me?

1:25:08.200 --> 1:25:09.639
<v Speaker 7>Is all that red you beware?

1:25:10.760 --> 1:25:11.280
<v Speaker 3>Hey man?

1:25:11.760 --> 1:25:14.840
<v Speaker 15>He'd be like, Yeah, I know, you gotta be who

1:25:14.840 --> 1:25:18.439
<v Speaker 15>you're I would not respect you were you to not

1:25:18.600 --> 1:25:19.719
<v Speaker 15>be flying your whoop.

1:25:19.840 --> 1:25:20.479
<v Speaker 3>You know what I'm saying.

1:25:20.960 --> 1:25:23.719
<v Speaker 7>So I appreciate retired.

1:25:24.280 --> 1:25:26.479
<v Speaker 3>He said, Look, that's what I love it. We're gonna

1:25:26.479 --> 1:25:28.320
<v Speaker 3>get into it. So we're gonna get into it. So

1:25:29.240 --> 1:25:32.400
<v Speaker 3>this is like I said, the nipsey Elsa was Saint Louis.

1:25:32.479 --> 1:25:35.439
<v Speaker 15>When we first met, I had no idea people out

1:25:35.479 --> 1:25:37.599
<v Speaker 15>there really actually said yes.

1:25:38.040 --> 1:25:40.360
<v Speaker 3>I thought that was a joke. I thought y'all was

1:25:40.439 --> 1:25:41.120
<v Speaker 3>doing too much.

1:25:41.160 --> 1:25:42.600
<v Speaker 15>And then I met this and he was like, oh,

1:25:42.640 --> 1:25:44.160
<v Speaker 15>it's over there right thor her. I was like, wait,

1:25:44.280 --> 1:25:45.120
<v Speaker 15>y'all really say.

1:25:44.960 --> 1:25:47.120
<v Speaker 7>That, no joke at all, that's really y'all.

1:25:47.960 --> 1:25:50.680
<v Speaker 5>That's really how we talked. We really talk. And the

1:25:50.760 --> 1:25:53.879
<v Speaker 5>crazy thing is I slowed down talking.

1:25:54.240 --> 1:25:54.800
<v Speaker 3>You know what I'm saying.

1:25:54.880 --> 1:25:58.439
<v Speaker 5>Sometimes it'd be like here in there. But if I

1:25:58.680 --> 1:26:00.400
<v Speaker 5>get to go away and be like her, I heard

1:26:01.479 --> 1:26:02.280
<v Speaker 5>heard yo.

1:26:02.320 --> 1:26:02.840
<v Speaker 3>Yup, yup?

1:26:03.000 --> 1:26:05.120
<v Speaker 7>Call switch? All right? Perfect.

1:26:05.240 --> 1:26:07.920
<v Speaker 15>So first of all, let's tell them what you do now,

1:26:08.120 --> 1:26:10.599
<v Speaker 15>so kind of give them the brief introduction who you are,

1:26:10.680 --> 1:26:13.280
<v Speaker 15>what you're doing, and then we'll go to the origin story.

1:26:13.960 --> 1:26:16.840
<v Speaker 5>So, like you said, my name this Travis Tyler. That's

1:26:16.840 --> 1:26:22.439
<v Speaker 5>what my mama named me from Saint Louis, Missouri. And man,

1:26:22.560 --> 1:26:24.920
<v Speaker 5>I'll be trying to figure out what am I sometimes

1:26:26.160 --> 1:26:29.280
<v Speaker 5>like for real, even when I was doing music, I

1:26:29.360 --> 1:26:31.200
<v Speaker 5>never felt like I was a rapper.

1:26:31.520 --> 1:26:34.280
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, I felt like I was an artist, you know.

1:26:34.439 --> 1:26:36.559
<v Speaker 5>And I still feel like I'm an artist in the

1:26:36.600 --> 1:26:40.360
<v Speaker 5>sense of the word now because I create things, yeah,

1:26:40.600 --> 1:26:44.360
<v Speaker 5>from inspiration, you know, alchemy, I create from the mind.

1:26:44.479 --> 1:26:45.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, yeah.

1:26:45.400 --> 1:26:49.120
<v Speaker 5>But I'm not what you would consider an activist. I'm

1:26:49.120 --> 1:26:53.799
<v Speaker 5>not a politician, but like I'm always in the middle

1:26:53.840 --> 1:26:57.479
<v Speaker 5>of something that's happening. Yeah, And that's how I've always been.

1:26:57.600 --> 1:27:02.840
<v Speaker 5>And I have a passion for the youth of urban community,

1:27:03.000 --> 1:27:06.320
<v Speaker 5>especially black youth. I have a passion for black men,

1:27:06.600 --> 1:27:10.519
<v Speaker 5>especially black men that are either trying to escape the

1:27:10.560 --> 1:27:14.320
<v Speaker 5>reality of street life or black men that are being

1:27:14.360 --> 1:27:18.360
<v Speaker 5>re entered into society from prison. I have a passion

1:27:18.439 --> 1:27:22.120
<v Speaker 5>for the rebuilding of the black community. So my whole life,

1:27:22.120 --> 1:27:24.920
<v Speaker 5>that's pretty much been my thing, no matter what space

1:27:24.960 --> 1:27:27.880
<v Speaker 5>I've landed in, it's always been my thing when it

1:27:27.920 --> 1:27:28.760
<v Speaker 5>comes to community.

1:27:29.040 --> 1:27:32.320
<v Speaker 7>And so that's it, man, Like I'm wearing.

1:27:32.439 --> 1:27:36.680
<v Speaker 5>The shirt is actually like one hundred from my mentoring program,

1:27:36.920 --> 1:27:41.559
<v Speaker 5>my mentor inner city youth ages teen to seventeen, not

1:27:41.760 --> 1:27:44.360
<v Speaker 5>just setting up some of the mentor them, but creating

1:27:44.360 --> 1:27:50.200
<v Speaker 5>the rights of passage, creating a pathway intentional pathway. I

1:27:50.240 --> 1:27:52.280
<v Speaker 5>think a lot of time with inner city youth, well,

1:27:52.320 --> 1:27:54.080
<v Speaker 5>I ain't even gonna say inner city youth, especially with

1:27:54.120 --> 1:27:57.960
<v Speaker 5>fatherless yes young men, whether wherever they're in the world,

1:27:58.560 --> 1:28:02.000
<v Speaker 5>whether it's the suburban nameghborhood or the inner city or

1:28:02.240 --> 1:28:07.760
<v Speaker 5>rural or third world country. With fatherless young men, they

1:28:08.640 --> 1:28:13.920
<v Speaker 5>tend to lack, some of us, a passage way of oh,

1:28:14.040 --> 1:28:16.320
<v Speaker 5>this is who you can become, this is what you

1:28:16.439 --> 1:28:19.360
<v Speaker 5>need to do to become it, because there's no one

1:28:19.560 --> 1:28:21.800
<v Speaker 5>to really guide them. So with our mentor program, that's

1:28:21.800 --> 1:28:24.720
<v Speaker 5>my goal, not just the mentor young men and send

1:28:24.800 --> 1:28:27.280
<v Speaker 5>them home and try to keep them out of trouble,

1:28:27.479 --> 1:28:30.120
<v Speaker 5>but help them identify who they are and who they

1:28:30.120 --> 1:28:32.559
<v Speaker 5>were born to be and help them get to that place.

1:28:32.960 --> 1:28:36.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and you still got that group home joint, right.

1:28:36.439 --> 1:28:38.600
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, so the group home. It's funny we're going to

1:28:38.680 --> 1:28:42.559
<v Speaker 5>interview now. I just stepped down from their Friday Okay.

1:28:42.600 --> 1:28:44.280
<v Speaker 5>But it was a good thing. It wasn't a negative.

1:28:44.360 --> 1:28:47.040
<v Speaker 5>So I ran it for like a year and a half,

1:28:47.840 --> 1:28:52.480
<v Speaker 5>helped rebuild the program, brought it up to the modern age, staffed,

1:28:52.840 --> 1:28:55.839
<v Speaker 5>creating new things for the boys. Learned a lot myself

1:28:55.880 --> 1:28:59.559
<v Speaker 5>in the process and now I'm going full throttle into

1:28:59.680 --> 1:29:03.640
<v Speaker 5>shape out my Flight one hundred program. Yeah, because the

1:29:03.840 --> 1:29:06.439
<v Speaker 5>end goal, like one of my end goals is to

1:29:06.840 --> 1:29:10.200
<v Speaker 5>build a school. Yeah, Flight one hundred Academy all boys,

1:29:10.560 --> 1:29:13.439
<v Speaker 5>keep the same voys from kindergarten to twelfth grade. Wow,

1:29:13.840 --> 1:29:14.719
<v Speaker 5>that's my mission.

1:29:15.120 --> 1:29:15.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:29:15.960 --> 1:29:20.640
<v Speaker 15>What I truly enjoyed about what you're doing is at

1:29:20.720 --> 1:29:22.920
<v Speaker 15>least with the group form and the mentoring thing is

1:29:23.200 --> 1:29:26.240
<v Speaker 15>the trust factor in the sense that you know, when

1:29:26.280 --> 1:29:29.160
<v Speaker 15>you get involved, especially in the juvenile system, like they

1:29:29.200 --> 1:29:32.400
<v Speaker 15>tell you that your record sealed, they say.

1:29:32.240 --> 1:29:35.720
<v Speaker 3>That, Yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying, But like

1:29:36.360 --> 1:29:38.320
<v Speaker 3>in practice, it's not the thing.

1:29:38.479 --> 1:29:42.520
<v Speaker 15>So like I think oftentimes if there's a step between

1:29:43.320 --> 1:29:46.479
<v Speaker 15>getting into juvie or into central, you know what I'm saying,

1:29:46.479 --> 1:29:48.680
<v Speaker 15>if there's an in between step, if somebody could come

1:29:48.720 --> 1:29:50.719
<v Speaker 15>in the middle of that and stay look, let little

1:29:50.720 --> 1:29:52.840
<v Speaker 15>homie stay with us, you know what I'm saying. Or

1:29:53.400 --> 1:29:56.000
<v Speaker 15>you know, let's say you caught a case and then

1:29:56.320 --> 1:29:59.080
<v Speaker 15>every once in a while, like obviously both of us

1:29:59.080 --> 1:30:01.040
<v Speaker 15>can say this from like per and experience, every once

1:30:01.080 --> 1:30:04.200
<v Speaker 15>in a while you might score a judge on a

1:30:04.200 --> 1:30:06.479
<v Speaker 15>good day, you know, you score a judge on a

1:30:06.479 --> 1:30:08.479
<v Speaker 15>good day and they say, I'll tell you what I

1:30:08.520 --> 1:30:10.720
<v Speaker 15>heard of this program over on the other side of town.

1:30:10.800 --> 1:30:13.320
<v Speaker 15>You could either do this, you have said, or you

1:30:13.360 --> 1:30:15.400
<v Speaker 15>could go to Camp Rocket, you know out here, that's.

1:30:15.240 --> 1:30:15.880
<v Speaker 3>What it was like.

1:30:15.920 --> 1:30:17.720
<v Speaker 15>You can go to Rocky or you can go to

1:30:17.760 --> 1:30:21.040
<v Speaker 15>this program, and like ten out of ten, I'm gonna

1:30:21.080 --> 1:30:24.600
<v Speaker 15>be like, let's go to this program. But yeah, sometimes

1:30:24.920 --> 1:30:28.479
<v Speaker 15>that program be just as bad, you know what I'm saying.

1:30:28.960 --> 1:30:32.000
<v Speaker 15>But if it's ran by somebody who has been through

1:30:32.040 --> 1:30:35.240
<v Speaker 15>the system, who understands it and knows that, like, here

1:30:35.360 --> 1:30:37.840
<v Speaker 15>are the traps, Here's are the ways for which I

1:30:37.920 --> 1:30:40.519
<v Speaker 15>know I was taking advantage of I was abused, And

1:30:40.560 --> 1:30:41.720
<v Speaker 15>this is what we're not gonna do here.

1:30:42.120 --> 1:30:44.280
<v Speaker 3>You know what I'm saying. The goal is for you

1:30:44.320 --> 1:30:45.360
<v Speaker 3>to never come back to this.

1:30:45.720 --> 1:30:46.840
<v Speaker 7>You make a valid point.

1:30:47.120 --> 1:30:49.160
<v Speaker 5>One of the reasons I believe God allowed me to

1:30:49.160 --> 1:30:51.800
<v Speaker 5>go back into the space with the group home was

1:30:51.960 --> 1:30:56.720
<v Speaker 5>bro Honestly, you will be surprised how I'm trying to

1:30:56.760 --> 1:30:59.280
<v Speaker 5>word this in a good way, but I don't think it.

1:30:59.280 --> 1:31:02.240
<v Speaker 16>Is one you say however you want, you will be

1:31:02.360 --> 1:31:09.839
<v Speaker 16>surprised how messed up the foster curs system is yeah, yeah,

1:31:10.040 --> 1:31:10.759
<v Speaker 16>a lot of these.

1:31:10.680 --> 1:31:12.400
<v Speaker 7>Kids get pulled out of their homes.

1:31:13.280 --> 1:31:15.439
<v Speaker 5>So the group home that I was at mostly all

1:31:15.439 --> 1:31:18.280
<v Speaker 5>of our boys they came from environments where they have

1:31:18.360 --> 1:31:21.519
<v Speaker 5>been taken from their parents, and so I was run

1:31:21.560 --> 1:31:22.960
<v Speaker 5>of the transition to living group home.

1:31:23.080 --> 1:31:26.040
<v Speaker 7>So my objective, my daily task.

1:31:25.960 --> 1:31:27.800
<v Speaker 5>Was to teach a group of young men how to

1:31:27.920 --> 1:31:30.840
<v Speaker 5>transition into manhood, how to go out.

1:31:30.720 --> 1:31:33.080
<v Speaker 3>On their own, pay their bills, live on their own.

1:31:33.160 --> 1:31:33.479
<v Speaker 3>All this.

1:31:34.160 --> 1:31:35.599
<v Speaker 7>You'll be surprised though.

1:31:36.200 --> 1:31:39.000
<v Speaker 5>These kids get pulled from their homes and their parents

1:31:39.800 --> 1:31:42.280
<v Speaker 5>and they're saying to them, oh, we're going to send

1:31:42.280 --> 1:31:46.559
<v Speaker 5>you somewhere better, better, yeah, yeah, yeah, and the places

1:31:46.600 --> 1:31:49.920
<v Speaker 5>that they send them to do more harm to them

1:31:49.960 --> 1:31:50.559
<v Speaker 5>than their home.

1:31:51.240 --> 1:31:54.040
<v Speaker 7>Like they're sitting in there with people that are worse than.

1:31:53.960 --> 1:31:57.320
<v Speaker 5>Their parents and one day don't have a voice to

1:31:57.360 --> 1:31:58.200
<v Speaker 5>advocate for them.

1:31:58.360 --> 1:32:00.960
<v Speaker 7>So here I am right now. It's crazy.

1:32:01.000 --> 1:32:02.760
<v Speaker 5>A few months back, I was like, I'm gonna talk

1:32:02.760 --> 1:32:04.599
<v Speaker 5>about this at every chance I get, which is crazy.

1:32:05.160 --> 1:32:08.840
<v Speaker 5>They don't have nobody to advocate for them, because I'm

1:32:08.840 --> 1:32:10.400
<v Speaker 5>sure there are people that have been through the foster

1:32:10.439 --> 1:32:13.160
<v Speaker 5>care system, but for some reason, people see that stigma.

1:32:13.200 --> 1:32:15.640
<v Speaker 5>They're probably celebrities that have been through foster curve, but

1:32:15.680 --> 1:32:18.240
<v Speaker 5>they see it as a stigma, like, oh, they didn't

1:32:18.240 --> 1:32:20.000
<v Speaker 5>want to talk about that part all my parent gave

1:32:20.040 --> 1:32:21.640
<v Speaker 5>me up. I don't know who my parent is. I

1:32:21.720 --> 1:32:24.160
<v Speaker 5>was in you know, whatever the case is. They don't

1:32:24.200 --> 1:32:27.640
<v Speaker 5>have nobody to advocate. Yeah, these kids, a lot of

1:32:27.680 --> 1:32:32.160
<v Speaker 5>these kids are treated so poorly in these places that

1:32:32.840 --> 1:32:36.320
<v Speaker 5>the loss should step in. People tend to not understand

1:32:36.320 --> 1:32:37.639
<v Speaker 5>why they act the way they act.

1:32:38.400 --> 1:32:39.120
<v Speaker 7>But you got to.

1:32:39.080 --> 1:32:42.640
<v Speaker 5>Think, ultimately, you are walking into a child's hole and

1:32:42.680 --> 1:32:43.800
<v Speaker 5>you're kidnapping them.

1:32:43.960 --> 1:32:45.000
<v Speaker 7>That's what you're doing. Really.

1:32:45.160 --> 1:32:48.160
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, Yeah, So if I come to your house at

1:32:48.240 --> 1:32:51.400
<v Speaker 5>eight nine o'clock at night. When I was fourteen, me,

1:32:52.000 --> 1:32:55.880
<v Speaker 5>my cousins, my brother, a bunch of my siblings were

1:32:55.880 --> 1:33:01.000
<v Speaker 5>taken from my mom and my aunt right from across

1:33:01.040 --> 1:33:05.120
<v Speaker 5>the street because I was over my friend's house. Holye

1:33:05.200 --> 1:33:09.240
<v Speaker 5>swooped up. Social workers swooped up. It's nighttime. You go

1:33:09.400 --> 1:33:13.320
<v Speaker 5>into somebody's house, you take their child. They don't know

1:33:13.400 --> 1:33:17.000
<v Speaker 5>where you're taking their child to. The child doesn't know

1:33:17.040 --> 1:33:20.760
<v Speaker 5>where they're going, and then they get to the residential

1:33:20.840 --> 1:33:23.320
<v Speaker 5>or the group home and they acting a fool, and

1:33:23.360 --> 1:33:26.519
<v Speaker 5>you got a bunch of unqualified, untrained staff members there.

1:33:26.560 --> 1:33:28.400
<v Speaker 5>They don't know how to deal with them neither. That's

1:33:28.479 --> 1:33:30.840
<v Speaker 5>just looking for a job. And when they get there,

1:33:31.080 --> 1:33:33.639
<v Speaker 5>they talking about why they acting like this. Come on, man,

1:33:33.760 --> 1:33:35.760
<v Speaker 5>if somebody just came to your house and took you

1:33:35.840 --> 1:33:38.080
<v Speaker 5>from your parent, you would be acting the same way.

1:33:38.120 --> 1:33:40.200
<v Speaker 5>And if you weren't, you saw it. Basically, let's just

1:33:40.240 --> 1:33:42.360
<v Speaker 5>be rial. Yeah, yeah, you just saw. You're gonna sit

1:33:42.400 --> 1:33:45.320
<v Speaker 5>there and fall like these kids. They acting out because

1:33:45.640 --> 1:33:49.400
<v Speaker 5>they've been abducted basically in their mind, and even.

1:33:49.200 --> 1:33:50.599
<v Speaker 3>Pat way beyond that point.

1:33:51.160 --> 1:33:54.560
<v Speaker 5>I know most people have seen if you hadn't the

1:33:54.960 --> 1:33:58.519
<v Speaker 5>movie Don't Sit where they talk about the Shackling family

1:33:58.560 --> 1:34:01.080
<v Speaker 5>and how they basically met dough fans out of the

1:34:01.080 --> 1:34:04.439
<v Speaker 5>whole West Virginia with oxy coote you know oxy code

1:34:04.439 --> 1:34:06.160
<v Speaker 5>ain't how do you want to pronounce it? And they

1:34:06.240 --> 1:34:09.760
<v Speaker 5>showing the movie how these doctors were getting these kickbacks

1:34:10.160 --> 1:34:14.960
<v Speaker 5>for introducing the drugs to the patients in West Virginia.

1:34:15.040 --> 1:34:17.280
<v Speaker 7>Bro, who better to prack.

1:34:17.040 --> 1:34:21.160
<v Speaker 3>Them on with drugs than children?

1:34:21.840 --> 1:34:25.080
<v Speaker 7>We ain't got no parents that nobody cares them out.

1:34:25.400 --> 1:34:28.400
<v Speaker 17>Yeah, bro, they take these kids and they put them

1:34:28.400 --> 1:34:33.360
<v Speaker 17>into the system three four, five years old, and they

1:34:33.479 --> 1:34:37.040
<v Speaker 17>start doping them from day one man.

1:34:36.840 --> 1:34:40.479
<v Speaker 5>Five dose dough over and over and over. Switch them out,

1:34:40.479 --> 1:34:42.120
<v Speaker 5>put them on something else. Well, let me see how

1:34:42.160 --> 1:34:44.200
<v Speaker 5>they don't work. Switch them out, put them on something else.

1:34:44.360 --> 1:34:46.639
<v Speaker 5>By the time they got to me at eighteen years old,

1:34:46.720 --> 1:34:51.320
<v Speaker 5>they like bro frime, yeah, fried, and then you got

1:34:51.479 --> 1:34:54.200
<v Speaker 5>you got case workers. They don't care about the kids.

1:34:54.200 --> 1:34:56.160
<v Speaker 5>They don't call, they don't come see them, they don't

1:34:56.160 --> 1:34:58.080
<v Speaker 5>pick them up, they don't do none of these things.

1:34:58.400 --> 1:35:00.120
<v Speaker 7>And the kids sitting there feeling like they don't got

1:35:00.120 --> 1:35:00.880
<v Speaker 7>nobody in nowhere.

1:35:01.160 --> 1:35:03.760
<v Speaker 5>So my main space that I function in right now,

1:35:03.840 --> 1:35:06.519
<v Speaker 5>especially for them, is to be an advocate. Every chance

1:35:06.560 --> 1:35:08.759
<v Speaker 5>that I get, I'm gonna talk about it so people

1:35:08.760 --> 1:35:11.000
<v Speaker 5>could put eyes on it. But also that's one of

1:35:11.080 --> 1:35:13.280
<v Speaker 5>the reasons that I'm building the things that I'm building,

1:35:13.680 --> 1:35:16.639
<v Speaker 5>so that we can have a space where it's like now,

1:35:16.680 --> 1:35:18.240
<v Speaker 5>you don't have to go to because there are a

1:35:18.280 --> 1:35:20.800
<v Speaker 5>lot of people I already have the good ideas they have.

1:35:21.040 --> 1:35:24.600
<v Speaker 5>There are some good programs. Yeah, like there are good programs.

1:35:24.920 --> 1:35:27.880
<v Speaker 5>Program that I was at it's been around four hundred

1:35:27.880 --> 1:35:30.880
<v Speaker 5>and sixty eight years. It's a decent program So there

1:35:31.320 --> 1:35:33.320
<v Speaker 5>are good programs that are out here, but the whole

1:35:33.320 --> 1:35:35.760
<v Speaker 5>system as a hall, it needs an overhall. So when

1:35:35.800 --> 1:35:37.800
<v Speaker 5>I had an opportunity to peep behind the veil, I

1:35:37.880 --> 1:35:39.880
<v Speaker 5>was like, you know, you know me, I go and

1:35:39.960 --> 1:35:40.599
<v Speaker 5>get the talking.

1:35:41.320 --> 1:35:44.200
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, I think obviously you talking that talk. But like

1:35:44.439 --> 1:35:47.240
<v Speaker 15>one of the things that you know, in the humanitarian

1:35:47.320 --> 1:35:49.840
<v Speaker 15>space that I like I serve in, they have a

1:35:49.880 --> 1:35:53.000
<v Speaker 15>saying that says peace works at the speed of trust,

1:35:53.439 --> 1:35:56.080
<v Speaker 15>you know. So like, even with all these good programs

1:35:56.120 --> 1:36:10.360
<v Speaker 15>in different places, it's like, if these kids don't trust you, Yeah,

1:36:10.400 --> 1:36:13.559
<v Speaker 15>you brought up being removed from your family's house when

1:36:13.600 --> 1:36:15.800
<v Speaker 15>you was real young. I love to talk a little

1:36:15.800 --> 1:36:18.760
<v Speaker 15>bit about about the origin story because obviously you wasn't

1:36:18.800 --> 1:36:21.040
<v Speaker 15>always talking like this, you know what I'm saying, Yeah,

1:36:21.760 --> 1:36:25.360
<v Speaker 15>And I think that that legitimacy, you know, or that

1:36:25.520 --> 1:36:28.360
<v Speaker 15>realness that I'm sure no matter how doped up or

1:36:28.360 --> 1:36:30.840
<v Speaker 15>how painful them kids are like they can look behind

1:36:30.880 --> 1:36:31.600
<v Speaker 15>your eyes.

1:36:31.360 --> 1:36:33.040
<v Speaker 3>And say, okay, but he knows.

1:36:33.600 --> 1:36:35.479
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, So give me a little bit of that, get

1:36:35.479 --> 1:36:38.240
<v Speaker 15>a little bit of the retired whooping all that.

1:36:38.720 --> 1:36:42.919
<v Speaker 5>Oh it's funny. I got this video on my page

1:36:43.360 --> 1:36:46.080
<v Speaker 5>that I posted. I started off saying, ain't nobody coming

1:36:46.080 --> 1:36:48.280
<v Speaker 5>to save you? Yeah, And at the end of it,

1:36:48.360 --> 1:36:50.639
<v Speaker 5>I go through this story about being in the group

1:36:50.720 --> 1:36:53.559
<v Speaker 5>home and all of that, and I say, have y'all

1:36:53.600 --> 1:36:56.040
<v Speaker 5>ever seen the Marvel movies where they like, it's your

1:36:56.080 --> 1:36:56.960
<v Speaker 5>origin story.

1:36:57.200 --> 1:36:59.360
<v Speaker 3>I'm like, that's my origin story. Yeah.

1:36:59.560 --> 1:37:02.200
<v Speaker 5>So for me, that part of the group home was

1:37:02.240 --> 1:37:07.360
<v Speaker 5>significant in my life, real, real significant. So before I

1:37:07.400 --> 1:37:09.880
<v Speaker 5>went to the group home, I was already outside, like

1:37:10.880 --> 1:37:12.760
<v Speaker 5>there are a lot of things that I've experienced in

1:37:12.760 --> 1:37:15.400
<v Speaker 5>this world that when I look back, I just be like, Man,

1:37:15.439 --> 1:37:15.960
<v Speaker 5>that's crazy.

1:37:16.000 --> 1:37:16.120
<v Speaker 3>Bro.

1:37:16.120 --> 1:37:18.639
<v Speaker 5>When I was fourteen years old, me and my girlfriend

1:37:18.640 --> 1:37:19.360
<v Speaker 5>were living together.

1:37:19.520 --> 1:37:19.920
<v Speaker 7>Crazy.

1:37:20.040 --> 1:37:25.679
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. No, I slept in the beg fourteen every night.

1:37:25.800 --> 1:37:31.200
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, with my girlfriend at fourteen, Like we basically lived together,

1:37:31.720 --> 1:37:33.200
<v Speaker 5>me and her in a room, her mom in the

1:37:33.200 --> 1:37:37.400
<v Speaker 5>next room. And so I was because of my mom's issues,

1:37:37.640 --> 1:37:42.200
<v Speaker 5>like I've been at this point, I've been my sole provider,

1:37:42.479 --> 1:37:45.439
<v Speaker 5>you know, minus a short period of time her and

1:37:45.520 --> 1:37:47.640
<v Speaker 5>her Whether it's like I went to live with my

1:37:47.720 --> 1:37:50.799
<v Speaker 5>daddy and he sent me back off with my grandma

1:37:50.960 --> 1:37:53.559
<v Speaker 5>for a short period time. My grandfather, all of those

1:37:53.560 --> 1:37:55.479
<v Speaker 5>were short periods of time. But since I was like twelve,

1:37:55.560 --> 1:37:57.840
<v Speaker 5>I've been taking care of myself. So I was outside early,

1:37:58.439 --> 1:38:02.480
<v Speaker 5>like hustling making money so I can professional myself. Yeah, fourteen,

1:38:02.760 --> 1:38:05.720
<v Speaker 5>Like I said, I was living with my girlfriend. We

1:38:05.720 --> 1:38:08.160
<v Speaker 5>were sleeping in the same bed. When I went to

1:38:08.640 --> 1:38:13.160
<v Speaker 5>the group home, my mom, the caseworker and the police

1:38:13.320 --> 1:38:16.640
<v Speaker 5>came and got me from her house and put me

1:38:16.680 --> 1:38:19.439
<v Speaker 5>in a car. Drove me two hours out of Saint

1:38:19.520 --> 1:38:22.599
<v Speaker 5>Louis to a wrench little house out in the woods.

1:38:22.720 --> 1:38:26.240
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, town full of white people, Like I was a

1:38:26.280 --> 1:38:26.960
<v Speaker 7>hoodie kid.

1:38:27.160 --> 1:38:29.519
<v Speaker 5>Like when they got me, true story, I had on

1:38:29.640 --> 1:38:32.960
<v Speaker 5>Dickey overalls like the zip of the brown boy, yeah,

1:38:33.080 --> 1:38:35.599
<v Speaker 5>and some boots like a bey Yeah.

1:38:35.600 --> 1:38:38.240
<v Speaker 15>The Saint Louis like I don't know, like the influence

1:38:38.280 --> 1:38:42.080
<v Speaker 15>of like West Coast culture, and it was very big

1:38:42.160 --> 1:38:43.920
<v Speaker 15>out there. So when he was like, yo, I'm zipped

1:38:44.000 --> 1:38:46.160
<v Speaker 15>up and the beanie and the dickies, it's like you

1:38:46.200 --> 1:38:47.960
<v Speaker 15>would think you was in South Central Yeah.

1:38:48.200 --> 1:38:51.160
<v Speaker 5>Yeah. So I had on a beie, the zip up

1:38:51.200 --> 1:38:54.720
<v Speaker 5>Dickey boy like yeah boot. So they took me out

1:38:54.760 --> 1:38:57.080
<v Speaker 5>to the woods and man, I got there and when

1:38:57.080 --> 1:38:59.360
<v Speaker 5>I got there, it was the first time in my life,

1:38:59.400 --> 1:39:03.240
<v Speaker 5>I think I feel that level of desperation and hopelessness

1:39:04.160 --> 1:39:05.880
<v Speaker 5>because I was supposed to stay there until I was

1:39:05.920 --> 1:39:09.160
<v Speaker 5>eighteen or twenty one. Those were their words based off

1:39:09.240 --> 1:39:11.880
<v Speaker 5>my behavior. I'm fourteen, so I'm in my head like

1:39:11.920 --> 1:39:15.240
<v Speaker 5>I'm frona beer six years Like. So I'm meeting all

1:39:15.280 --> 1:39:17.479
<v Speaker 5>these kids. They like, I'm been here since I was

1:39:18.120 --> 1:39:20.280
<v Speaker 5>this age, and I've been in the system since I

1:39:20.400 --> 1:39:22.680
<v Speaker 5>was this and they moved me here and they so

1:39:22.760 --> 1:39:26.080
<v Speaker 5>I'm hearing all these different stories from different people.

1:39:26.080 --> 1:39:28.360
<v Speaker 7>And I'm just like, dang, it's crazy, you know.

1:39:29.000 --> 1:39:32.040
<v Speaker 5>And then one day, it was right after Christmas, I'm

1:39:32.040 --> 1:39:35.040
<v Speaker 5>sitting in her hindsight, I got a different perspective of it. Now.

1:39:35.040 --> 1:39:37.559
<v Speaker 7>It's this kid I never forget him. His name was Roger.

1:39:38.600 --> 1:39:40.600
<v Speaker 5>When I first met him the very first day that

1:39:40.640 --> 1:39:42.720
<v Speaker 5>I came, he sat down beside me and he said, Man,

1:39:42.880 --> 1:39:45.120
<v Speaker 5>if my granddaddy was hurt, he wouldn't want me talking

1:39:45.160 --> 1:39:46.599
<v Speaker 5>to you. And I was like why, He said, because

1:39:46.600 --> 1:39:49.160
<v Speaker 5>he didn't like black people. So I turned right to

1:39:49.240 --> 1:39:50.960
<v Speaker 5>him and said, why did you feel the need to

1:39:51.000 --> 1:39:51.439
<v Speaker 5>tell me that?

1:39:51.680 --> 1:39:51.840
<v Speaker 8>Right?

1:39:51.880 --> 1:39:53.120
<v Speaker 7>Why you tell me that? Yeah?

1:39:53.200 --> 1:39:55.000
<v Speaker 5>Like I was like, you could have kept that to yourself.

1:39:55.000 --> 1:39:57.280
<v Speaker 5>He like I don't got nothing against black people. I'm

1:39:57.320 --> 1:39:59.599
<v Speaker 5>just saying my grandfather don't like black people. So I'm

1:39:59.640 --> 1:40:00.760
<v Speaker 5>like whatever, I'm okay, cool.

1:40:00.840 --> 1:40:01.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:40:01.640 --> 1:40:05.559
<v Speaker 5>It's like right after Christmas, Christmas Day, I was sitting

1:40:05.600 --> 1:40:08.400
<v Speaker 5>in the group home. Nobody called, Like, I was watching

1:40:08.439 --> 1:40:11.040
<v Speaker 5>all the other kids. They getting gifts, they opening their

1:40:11.160 --> 1:40:14.519
<v Speaker 5>presents and yeah, depending on their program, some of them

1:40:14.560 --> 1:40:17.000
<v Speaker 5>they get to go home. Like so I'm sitting there,

1:40:17.000 --> 1:40:19.320
<v Speaker 5>ain't nobody called me on, got no gifts, I don't

1:40:19.320 --> 1:40:21.800
<v Speaker 5>got nothing, and I'm just sitting in the chart like

1:40:22.439 --> 1:40:24.200
<v Speaker 5>just pissed all day basically.

1:40:24.280 --> 1:40:27.040
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, and uh, one of my workers came in later

1:40:27.080 --> 1:40:27.479
<v Speaker 7>that day.

1:40:27.720 --> 1:40:28.280
<v Speaker 3>I seen her.

1:40:28.520 --> 1:40:30.640
<v Speaker 7>She was talking to the lady. The other lady was

1:40:30.640 --> 1:40:31.240
<v Speaker 7>about to get off.

1:40:31.280 --> 1:40:33.200
<v Speaker 5>They was behind me and I heard her talk and

1:40:33.320 --> 1:40:35.280
<v Speaker 5>she said, he just sitting there all day. She was

1:40:35.320 --> 1:40:37.880
<v Speaker 5>like yeah, she like, did anybody call them or anything?

1:40:37.960 --> 1:40:40.519
<v Speaker 5>She was like no, She's like nobody. So I'm and

1:40:40.560 --> 1:40:43.920
<v Speaker 5>it's crazy now that I've been back in that space

1:40:44.040 --> 1:40:48.880
<v Speaker 5>more than once. Yeah, I've experienced that with kids, seeing

1:40:48.920 --> 1:40:51.519
<v Speaker 5>them nothing and I know what to do, like I

1:40:51.560 --> 1:40:53.760
<v Speaker 5>got you know what I'm saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, And.

1:40:53.720 --> 1:40:54.559
<v Speaker 7>So I'm sitting there.

1:40:54.600 --> 1:40:56.360
<v Speaker 5>At that point, she like, nah, he's just sitting there

1:40:56.360 --> 1:40:59.240
<v Speaker 5>all day, and so she went came out. She's like, hell,

1:40:59.439 --> 1:41:02.439
<v Speaker 5>what you doing. This lady played a significant role in

1:41:02.479 --> 1:41:04.800
<v Speaker 5>my life. I wish I could remember her name.

1:41:04.880 --> 1:41:05.800
<v Speaker 3>Bro Like.

1:41:06.240 --> 1:41:08.400
<v Speaker 5>So she was like, what you're doing. I'm like nothing.

1:41:08.920 --> 1:41:10.320
<v Speaker 5>She was like, you want to go to the store.

1:41:10.439 --> 1:41:12.960
<v Speaker 5>I'm like to do what She like her, I got

1:41:12.960 --> 1:41:17.439
<v Speaker 5>something for you. So the state gave each kid one

1:41:17.520 --> 1:41:19.280
<v Speaker 5>hundred dollars Walmart gift card.

1:41:19.360 --> 1:41:19.559
<v Speaker 13>Wow.

1:41:20.400 --> 1:41:22.360
<v Speaker 7>So she like, you got a gift card the Walmart

1:41:22.360 --> 1:41:23.000
<v Speaker 7>for one hundred dollars.

1:41:23.040 --> 1:41:23.160
<v Speaker 3>Bore.

1:41:23.160 --> 1:41:24.960
<v Speaker 5>I had never been to Walmart before. I ain't know

1:41:25.000 --> 1:41:27.559
<v Speaker 5>what Walmart was. So I'm like, all right, man, let's go.

1:41:27.840 --> 1:41:29.519
<v Speaker 5>We go to Walmart. I'm walking around.

1:41:29.960 --> 1:41:31.480
<v Speaker 7>He ain't never been to Walmart.

1:41:31.600 --> 1:41:34.880
<v Speaker 5>I had never been to Walmart. Broke walking around. I'm

1:41:34.960 --> 1:41:39.160
<v Speaker 5>looking around the store. I got this hundred full Guess

1:41:39.160 --> 1:41:39.719
<v Speaker 5>what I buy?

1:41:39.960 --> 1:41:40.479
<v Speaker 3>No lie?

1:41:40.640 --> 1:41:43.120
<v Speaker 7>True story. White t shirt is some Dickies.

1:41:43.280 --> 1:41:46.880
<v Speaker 5>Yes, yes, yes, white t shirt is some Dikies out

1:41:46.880 --> 1:41:48.200
<v Speaker 5>of Walmoart in the country.

1:41:48.240 --> 1:41:49.160
<v Speaker 3>You're I love it.

1:41:49.200 --> 1:41:53.200
<v Speaker 7>So I grabbed these dickeys, white tea. Go back to

1:41:53.240 --> 1:41:53.920
<v Speaker 7>the group home.

1:41:54.479 --> 1:41:57.040
<v Speaker 5>I'm still mad because ain't nobody called me, Nobody came

1:41:57.080 --> 1:41:59.080
<v Speaker 5>to see me, you know, none of that. And so

1:41:59.240 --> 1:42:03.000
<v Speaker 5>the next few days, man, me and dude we always

1:42:03.080 --> 1:42:04.840
<v Speaker 5>ended up in the living room at the same time.

1:42:05.000 --> 1:42:07.040
<v Speaker 5>And I'm I'm I'm mad.

1:42:07.320 --> 1:42:09.120
<v Speaker 7>Yeah. So fourteen.

1:42:09.280 --> 1:42:11.360
<v Speaker 5>You gotta think when I was fourteen, bro, I was

1:42:11.400 --> 1:42:16.599
<v Speaker 5>like probably six six foot six one. Yeah, like one

1:42:16.680 --> 1:42:19.080
<v Speaker 5>hundred and eighty two hundred pounds when I was fourteen.

1:42:19.320 --> 1:42:19.559
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:42:19.680 --> 1:42:21.759
<v Speaker 5>And so while I'm married, they had some little weights.

1:42:21.800 --> 1:42:23.479
<v Speaker 5>I had started lifting weights every thing.

1:42:23.640 --> 1:42:25.240
<v Speaker 7>Oh man, I'm programming.

1:42:25.360 --> 1:42:27.759
<v Speaker 3>I'm a big old kid. Yeah.

1:42:27.800 --> 1:42:29.880
<v Speaker 5>So dude gets to talking crazy to me. We sit

1:42:29.920 --> 1:42:32.960
<v Speaker 5>in the living room. He like, man, what you doing, boy?

1:42:33.160 --> 1:42:35.479
<v Speaker 5>So my conversation goes back to the first time.

1:42:35.640 --> 1:42:37.440
<v Speaker 3>Like god he racist?

1:42:37.640 --> 1:42:39.400
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, yeah, now I know, now I know.

1:42:39.479 --> 1:42:41.519
<v Speaker 3>I'm like what you mean? Boy? He like, you heard me?

1:42:41.560 --> 1:42:41.800
<v Speaker 8>Boy?

1:42:41.880 --> 1:42:45.479
<v Speaker 7>I'm like boys in kid or boy as in racist.

1:42:45.520 --> 1:42:46.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:42:46.200 --> 1:42:48.439
<v Speaker 7>He like, boy, you heard me. Now we're fighting.

1:42:48.640 --> 1:42:50.720
<v Speaker 5>I said, hey, bro, I'm gonna tell you this one

1:42:50.720 --> 1:42:53.200
<v Speaker 5>more time. Don't call me a boy again.

1:42:53.479 --> 1:42:53.679
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:42:53.800 --> 1:42:54.760
<v Speaker 7>He said, what you gonna do?

1:42:54.840 --> 1:42:56.240
<v Speaker 3>Boy? Lit that fool up?

1:42:56.320 --> 1:42:57.040
<v Speaker 7>Yup, yup?

1:42:57.080 --> 1:42:57.880
<v Speaker 3>I'm talking about right now?

1:42:58.080 --> 1:43:01.760
<v Speaker 5>They style locked in big night night.

1:43:01.880 --> 1:43:02.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:43:04.600 --> 1:43:07.519
<v Speaker 5>So by the time they come in, I got him

1:43:07.600 --> 1:43:10.599
<v Speaker 5>by the back of the neck. Yeah, and I'm rubbing

1:43:10.600 --> 1:43:13.080
<v Speaker 5>his face across the carpet. Yeah, I'm like, what you

1:43:13.080 --> 1:43:15.120
<v Speaker 5>call me again? He stayed in saying, you know, he's like, boy,

1:43:15.200 --> 1:43:19.840
<v Speaker 5>you hurt. So now hindsight though, when I look back,

1:43:19.920 --> 1:43:23.800
<v Speaker 5>I had to think and say, yeah, dangn me and

1:43:23.840 --> 1:43:27.200
<v Speaker 5>him was sitting there at the same time. I thought

1:43:27.240 --> 1:43:29.360
<v Speaker 5>back and said, oh, he ain't had no visitors on

1:43:29.479 --> 1:43:32.640
<v Speaker 5>Christmas steeven. Yeah, oh he man like me. He just

1:43:32.680 --> 1:43:33.320
<v Speaker 5>as hurt as you.

1:43:33.520 --> 1:43:34.120
<v Speaker 3>He was hurt.

1:43:34.200 --> 1:43:35.439
<v Speaker 7>He ain't even know how the process.

1:43:35.600 --> 1:43:38.600
<v Speaker 15>You the craziest storyteller ever, like, cause I'm like, you

1:43:38.760 --> 1:43:40.519
<v Speaker 15>can get to the point, and I.

1:43:40.479 --> 1:43:43.080
<v Speaker 3>See it right there now. I know like he ain't

1:43:43.080 --> 1:43:45.360
<v Speaker 3>know how the process. So I rushed him up forever.

1:43:45.720 --> 1:43:47.519
<v Speaker 5>So when the people come in and they see me,

1:43:47.840 --> 1:43:50.400
<v Speaker 5>you know, they like, grab me up cause I'm.

1:43:50.400 --> 1:43:52.639
<v Speaker 7>Six foot yeah yeah, yeah, it's on your.

1:43:52.520 --> 1:43:55.800
<v Speaker 3>Kid from the city. Yeah, you know, everybody record and

1:43:55.880 --> 1:43:57.760
<v Speaker 3>story they're coming here, so they know like he a

1:43:57.880 --> 1:43:59.439
<v Speaker 3>gang man, but he did he did.

1:43:59.600 --> 1:44:02.639
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, so I'm no bressing. They snatched me up, throw

1:44:02.720 --> 1:44:04.920
<v Speaker 5>me in the room. They took me in this room

1:44:04.960 --> 1:44:08.080
<v Speaker 5>called an isolation room. This room is like an eight mychin.

1:44:08.720 --> 1:44:10.000
<v Speaker 5>All the walls were metal.

1:44:10.240 --> 1:44:10.439
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:44:10.840 --> 1:44:13.639
<v Speaker 5>The door was like this stick wood with a little

1:44:13.680 --> 1:44:16.439
<v Speaker 5>bitty wondering the thing on it. No way out unless

1:44:16.439 --> 1:44:18.880
<v Speaker 5>they let you out in carpet on the floor.

1:44:19.120 --> 1:44:19.240
<v Speaker 3>Bro.

1:44:19.360 --> 1:44:21.960
<v Speaker 7>When they shut that door, I just lost it.

1:44:22.080 --> 1:44:22.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:44:22.800 --> 1:44:26.280
<v Speaker 5>My brain said, you finna died in her, Ain't no

1:44:26.320 --> 1:44:29.280
<v Speaker 5>way out. Yeah, And I got to kick in the door.

1:44:29.439 --> 1:44:32.080
<v Speaker 5>I got to yelling, and I'm talking about Bro. I

1:44:32.240 --> 1:44:34.960
<v Speaker 5>just was wilding in that. But they just they paid

1:44:34.960 --> 1:44:36.759
<v Speaker 5>me no mind. They didn't even come to the door.

1:44:36.880 --> 1:44:38.960
<v Speaker 3>It don't make no difference until you calm down.

1:44:39.240 --> 1:44:40.320
<v Speaker 7>They like, he can't get out.

1:44:41.120 --> 1:44:43.560
<v Speaker 5>And so this girl that I knew to her, she

1:44:43.800 --> 1:44:46.000
<v Speaker 5>came and sat down by the bottom of the door

1:44:46.280 --> 1:44:48.599
<v Speaker 5>and talked under the thing, and she was like, hey,

1:44:49.000 --> 1:44:50.880
<v Speaker 5>you gotta come around down. She's like, come down here.

1:44:51.040 --> 1:44:53.120
<v Speaker 5>So I laid down on the floor. I'm breathing through

1:44:53.160 --> 1:44:56.400
<v Speaker 5>the crack like I'm breathing under the door. She like,

1:44:56.479 --> 1:44:58.960
<v Speaker 5>you gotta calm down, Like they never gonna let you

1:44:59.000 --> 1:44:59.320
<v Speaker 5>out of her.

1:44:59.320 --> 1:44:59.880
<v Speaker 7>They scurried.

1:45:00.080 --> 1:45:02.280
<v Speaker 5>She like, I'm out here, like you gotta. So I'm

1:45:02.320 --> 1:45:05.200
<v Speaker 5>just laying there regulating, and I go to sleep. Wow,

1:45:05.840 --> 1:45:07.519
<v Speaker 5>and I wake up in the middle of the night.

1:45:07.800 --> 1:45:09.400
<v Speaker 5>I knocked on the door. They let me out to

1:45:09.479 --> 1:45:11.320
<v Speaker 5>use the bath on the dude like it was a

1:45:11.360 --> 1:45:13.800
<v Speaker 5>big white dude used to be overnight. He was like,

1:45:13.960 --> 1:45:15.519
<v Speaker 5>if I let you out or you're gonna get the trip.

1:45:15.520 --> 1:45:16.760
<v Speaker 5>And I said, nah, man, I just got to use

1:45:16.800 --> 1:45:19.360
<v Speaker 5>the bathroom. I already didn used it there once. I'm like,

1:45:19.439 --> 1:45:20.599
<v Speaker 5>I just want to go to the tarlet.

1:45:20.720 --> 1:45:21.439
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah yeah.

1:45:21.600 --> 1:45:23.479
<v Speaker 5>So he's like, all right, come on, he let me out.

1:45:23.600 --> 1:45:25.519
<v Speaker 5>I went back in and he locked the door. When

1:45:25.520 --> 1:45:27.959
<v Speaker 5>I went back in there, bro, I said to myself,

1:45:28.000 --> 1:45:31.400
<v Speaker 5>this was my one of my origins. I said to myself,

1:45:31.439 --> 1:45:33.719
<v Speaker 5>I said, when they let me out of her fourteen

1:45:33.800 --> 1:45:34.519
<v Speaker 5>years old, I.

1:45:34.479 --> 1:45:37.920
<v Speaker 3>Said, I'm gonna be different. Yeah, I'm be in control.

1:45:38.160 --> 1:45:39.240
<v Speaker 7>I'm gonna show the world.

1:45:39.080 --> 1:45:39.519
<v Speaker 3>Who I am.

1:45:40.080 --> 1:45:42.920
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, when they let me out, I played the game

1:45:42.920 --> 1:45:45.759
<v Speaker 5>after that every since. And so I went to another

1:45:45.800 --> 1:45:47.840
<v Speaker 5>group home. I stayed there. I was supposed to be

1:45:47.840 --> 1:45:50.040
<v Speaker 5>there for a while. And I got to that group

1:45:50.080 --> 1:45:51.800
<v Speaker 5>home and I asked the people. I said, how do

1:45:51.920 --> 1:45:54.320
<v Speaker 5>the program work? As soon as I got there, Yeah,

1:45:54.400 --> 1:45:56.439
<v Speaker 5>they said, well, if you do this and then you

1:45:56.479 --> 1:45:58.160
<v Speaker 5>go to level this, and you go to this level,

1:45:58.240 --> 1:45:59.559
<v Speaker 5>you go to that level. I said, how long do

1:45:59.640 --> 1:46:02.040
<v Speaker 5>it take that? They said probably like ninety days. I said,

1:46:02.080 --> 1:46:03.200
<v Speaker 5>I'm gonna do it. Are sixty?

1:46:03.320 --> 1:46:03.720
<v Speaker 3>I love it?

1:46:03.760 --> 1:46:06.760
<v Speaker 7>They said okay and shown up sixty days later. Bro

1:46:06.960 --> 1:46:08.400
<v Speaker 7>leics than sixty I was done.

1:46:08.720 --> 1:46:09.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:46:09.120 --> 1:46:12.120
<v Speaker 5>They called my mama. My case had been dropped because

1:46:12.120 --> 1:46:13.680
<v Speaker 5>my mama was doing what she's supposed to.

1:46:13.640 --> 1:46:16.000
<v Speaker 7>Do, and they like, you can go home.

1:46:16.439 --> 1:46:18.880
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, So now I go home two days before I'm

1:46:18.880 --> 1:46:21.000
<v Speaker 5>turning fifteen. I get back home, though my mama was

1:46:21.000 --> 1:46:23.639
<v Speaker 5>on the same mission. And I've been outside ever since.

1:46:23.880 --> 1:46:26.559
<v Speaker 5>Beautiful man, and I think one thing I feel another

1:46:26.560 --> 1:46:28.800
<v Speaker 5>to just shape me into who I am.

1:46:29.000 --> 1:46:29.719
<v Speaker 3>But the hero.

1:46:30.000 --> 1:46:33.880
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say that that authenticity of

1:46:34.040 --> 1:46:37.400
<v Speaker 15>like even having the a wherewithal to know that, like

1:46:37.800 --> 1:46:40.519
<v Speaker 15>you know, at the end of the day, love Homie was.

1:46:40.520 --> 1:46:43.479
<v Speaker 3>Scared, right, Yeah, he was hurt too, Like he was

1:46:43.520 --> 1:46:44.000
<v Speaker 3>just hurting.

1:46:44.360 --> 1:46:46.280
<v Speaker 15>So when you have that sort of like level of

1:46:46.320 --> 1:46:50.160
<v Speaker 15>empathy and you know when you were outside, like the

1:46:50.200 --> 1:46:53.000
<v Speaker 15>reasons for which you were outside, you know what I'm saying,

1:46:53.400 --> 1:46:57.160
<v Speaker 15>and having those connections, it's so clear to me how

1:46:57.200 --> 1:47:00.479
<v Speaker 15>that fuels the direction you're in, and it rus to

1:47:00.560 --> 1:47:04.519
<v Speaker 15>me the cornerstone premise of my whole movement here, which

1:47:04.560 --> 1:47:06.799
<v Speaker 15>is like, yo, if you understand the hood, you understand politics.

1:47:06.960 --> 1:47:08.920
<v Speaker 15>You walked in there and said, what's the game? What's

1:47:08.960 --> 1:47:11.679
<v Speaker 15>the play? Okay, what's the play? How does this work?

1:47:12.040 --> 1:47:12.080
<v Speaker 5>This?

1:47:12.280 --> 1:47:12.599
<v Speaker 3>Okay?

1:47:12.600 --> 1:47:13.840
<v Speaker 15>Now, know how to work it. Here's a way to

1:47:13.840 --> 1:47:15.519
<v Speaker 15>make it better. I know how it, I know how

1:47:15.560 --> 1:47:17.400
<v Speaker 15>I felt in it. So if somebody else has to

1:47:17.400 --> 1:47:20.120
<v Speaker 15>be in there just the way it needs to be done,

1:47:20.200 --> 1:47:23.519
<v Speaker 15>because I know I would have succeeded had this this

1:47:23.560 --> 1:47:25.599
<v Speaker 15>and this happened. So let me let me let me

1:47:25.600 --> 1:47:28.840
<v Speaker 15>push you forward to now and then to more like

1:47:29.360 --> 1:47:32.640
<v Speaker 15>sort of the bigger like national conversation now, so like

1:47:32.680 --> 1:47:36.920
<v Speaker 15>the national conversation all of us we lived through, you know,

1:47:37.040 --> 1:47:38.400
<v Speaker 15>in the time that you were there, and the time

1:47:38.479 --> 1:47:41.679
<v Speaker 15>was going on in La too, like this this hyper

1:47:41.760 --> 1:47:46.080
<v Speaker 15>policing where you know, for us probably saying for y'all,

1:47:46.080 --> 1:47:47.760
<v Speaker 15>the cops were just another gang to us, you know

1:47:47.800 --> 1:47:51.400
<v Speaker 15>what I'm saying, Like y'all just as violent, as bad

1:47:51.720 --> 1:47:54.320
<v Speaker 15>and as dangerous as everybody else in these streets.

1:47:54.360 --> 1:47:55.800
<v Speaker 3>Like you ain't make no difference to us.

1:47:56.600 --> 1:48:00.240
<v Speaker 15>And sure, yeah, like in the same way that you know,

1:48:00.400 --> 1:48:05.240
<v Speaker 15>if you were having a rodent infestation at your house,

1:48:05.600 --> 1:48:09.559
<v Speaker 15>I mean sure you could bomb the house, right, and yes,

1:48:09.640 --> 1:48:12.280
<v Speaker 15>the rodents are gone. You're see what I'm saying, But

1:48:12.360 --> 1:48:14.000
<v Speaker 15>you've killed everything, you know.

1:48:13.960 --> 1:48:14.479
<v Speaker 3>What I'm saying.

1:48:14.520 --> 1:48:16.519
<v Speaker 15>But then you get to say, like you know, as

1:48:16.520 --> 1:48:18.559
<v Speaker 15>a metaphor, it's like, oh, look, we were tough on crime,

1:48:18.600 --> 1:48:21.040
<v Speaker 15>we ended crime, you know what I'm saying. It's like, well, yeah,

1:48:21.080 --> 1:48:22.920
<v Speaker 15>but that's what you locked us all up. Like it

1:48:22.960 --> 1:48:26.679
<v Speaker 15>didn't This didn't really help us. But you know, we're

1:48:26.720 --> 1:48:30.840
<v Speaker 15>seeing sort of across the country despite all of these

1:48:30.880 --> 1:48:34.280
<v Speaker 15>efforts and proof that like the streets are different, and

1:48:34.320 --> 1:48:38.559
<v Speaker 15>it's not because of any invading forts. It's because of

1:48:38.920 --> 1:48:42.000
<v Speaker 15>people like you, people like JB and OKC that are

1:48:42.040 --> 1:48:46.200
<v Speaker 15>like truly from the city, who really care and move

1:48:46.240 --> 1:48:48.200
<v Speaker 15>at the speed of trust, like I said, moving at

1:48:48.200 --> 1:48:50.200
<v Speaker 15>the speed of trust and like and are saying, Look,

1:48:50.520 --> 1:48:52.920
<v Speaker 15>it's one kid at a time, it's one program at

1:48:52.920 --> 1:48:55.840
<v Speaker 15>a time, it's one advocate at a time that like

1:48:55.920 --> 1:49:01.360
<v Speaker 15>says incremental slow door knock build true us one kid,

1:49:01.560 --> 1:49:03.200
<v Speaker 15>you know what I'm saying. That's like it's not fun.

1:49:03.280 --> 1:49:07.120
<v Speaker 15>It's not a movie. It ain't sexy. It ain't sexy. Bro,

1:49:07.200 --> 1:49:11.360
<v Speaker 15>you gotta be outside. You know, I'm gonna breeze through.

1:49:11.439 --> 1:49:14.439
<v Speaker 15>When you caught one to the leg. But like, even

1:49:14.479 --> 1:49:17.120
<v Speaker 15>in the process of doing the good you were doing,

1:49:17.160 --> 1:49:19.040
<v Speaker 15>there was a moment where like I knew of like

1:49:19.080 --> 1:49:22.040
<v Speaker 15>you're like you were in neighborhoods, like you know, doing

1:49:22.640 --> 1:49:25.080
<v Speaker 15>backpack drives and back to school things, you know what

1:49:25.080 --> 1:49:25.479
<v Speaker 15>I'm saying.

1:49:25.520 --> 1:49:28.839
<v Speaker 3>But these are like in these are in active areas.

1:49:29.080 --> 1:49:33.320
<v Speaker 15>Like you know, everybody can just walk in to this

1:49:33.560 --> 1:49:36.400
<v Speaker 15>park and be like I'm gonna do a fundraiser.

1:49:36.439 --> 1:49:39.879
<v Speaker 3>It's like, like, no, we rob it, all of you,

1:49:39.880 --> 1:49:42.519
<v Speaker 3>you know what I'm saying. So like, after years of.

1:49:42.439 --> 1:49:45.439
<v Speaker 15>Doing this, you know, one little Waiian didn't know who

1:49:45.439 --> 1:49:47.719
<v Speaker 15>he was dealing with, you know what I'm saying, caught

1:49:47.720 --> 1:49:49.320
<v Speaker 15>you slipping, you know what I'm saying. You had to

1:49:49.360 --> 1:49:53.400
<v Speaker 15>rebuild and I've seen even health journey from that moment

1:49:53.760 --> 1:49:57.320
<v Speaker 15>sort of change to bring you into the position you're

1:49:57.400 --> 1:50:00.880
<v Speaker 15>in sort of now, which is like, obviously it's somebody

1:50:00.920 --> 1:50:13.760
<v Speaker 15>we could deeply admire. Can you talk a little bit

1:50:13.800 --> 1:50:18.799
<v Speaker 15>about obviously without getting personal, without sharing anybody's like personal information.

1:50:18.880 --> 1:50:21.280
<v Speaker 15>But some of the sort of like things that you've

1:50:21.320 --> 1:50:23.439
<v Speaker 15>seen with some of the young homies who've been able

1:50:23.439 --> 1:50:25.840
<v Speaker 15>to maybe like calm some stuff down, you know what

1:50:25.880 --> 1:50:28.800
<v Speaker 15>I'm saying, like maybe actually like this working, you know

1:50:28.800 --> 1:50:29.200
<v Speaker 15>what I mean?

1:50:29.680 --> 1:50:34.840
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, yeah, so I think you nailed it as a whole.

1:50:35.200 --> 1:50:38.920
<v Speaker 5>It takes a person that people trust to bring a

1:50:39.000 --> 1:50:43.880
<v Speaker 5>level of com So even when I got shot, when

1:50:43.920 --> 1:50:47.240
<v Speaker 5>I got shot, or I had dudes in my inbox where.

1:50:47.120 --> 1:50:49.840
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, yeah that be outside ready to slide?

1:50:49.880 --> 1:50:52.920
<v Speaker 3>Oh, ready to they ready to slide? Yeah, Yeah, that's like, hey,

1:50:53.040 --> 1:50:54.720
<v Speaker 3>who got you? You know it? Let's go.

1:50:54.800 --> 1:50:57.320
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, And I'm like, nah, I'm cool. Yeah yeah, yeah,

1:50:57.360 --> 1:50:57.559
<v Speaker 7>you know.

1:50:57.800 --> 1:51:01.040
<v Speaker 5>And so sometimes when things like that, I think people

1:51:01.120 --> 1:51:04.519
<v Speaker 5>take things into their own hands. Yeah, that you don't

1:51:04.560 --> 1:51:08.240
<v Speaker 5>know nothing about. And so after that, they were like,

1:51:08.280 --> 1:51:10.680
<v Speaker 5>do you want to do this news interview? I was

1:51:10.720 --> 1:51:13.839
<v Speaker 5>still broke up. I couldn't get out the bed. I'm like, yeah,

1:51:14.080 --> 1:51:17.040
<v Speaker 5>you know, but my reason for doing the news interview

1:51:17.200 --> 1:51:21.240
<v Speaker 5>was so people could hear my heart. Yeah, and you

1:51:21.520 --> 1:51:26.800
<v Speaker 5>have a thistle in every neighborhood around America.

1:51:26.920 --> 1:51:27.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:51:27.560 --> 1:51:29.040
<v Speaker 7>So here's the thing about police.

1:51:29.120 --> 1:51:32.680
<v Speaker 5>Police are reactive Yeah, when by the time police on

1:51:32.880 --> 1:51:36.479
<v Speaker 5>a word of things, a crime has happened. Yeah, the

1:51:36.560 --> 1:51:40.400
<v Speaker 5>murder has already taken place, the shooting has already happened,

1:51:40.680 --> 1:51:45.120
<v Speaker 5>the robbery has already happened. The person that's stopping the

1:51:45.240 --> 1:51:49.720
<v Speaker 5>crime is miscathy that live on the block. Yes, that's say,

1:51:49.800 --> 1:51:52.400
<v Speaker 5>hey can murder. Yeah, where are you going? I could

1:51:52.400 --> 1:51:55.639
<v Speaker 5>tell you frustrate. We had this lady in our neighborhood

1:51:55.640 --> 1:51:58.759
<v Speaker 5>and name was miss a Miss Alexander. How many times

1:51:58.800 --> 1:52:01.600
<v Speaker 5>as a kid I be walking past her house on

1:52:01.720 --> 1:52:04.960
<v Speaker 5>my way to do something stupid. Yeah, and she'll say,

1:52:05.240 --> 1:52:07.680
<v Speaker 5>come murder yep, and you go sit there on the

1:52:07.720 --> 1:52:09.759
<v Speaker 5>porch with her and talk for like fifteen minutes.

1:52:09.840 --> 1:52:13.160
<v Speaker 7>Respect is you have to respect her? Yeah, and you done.

1:52:13.520 --> 1:52:16.040
<v Speaker 7>Or the dude that used to be in the street.

1:52:16.080 --> 1:52:18.000
<v Speaker 7>It's a dude her in Saint Louis.

1:52:18.439 --> 1:52:23.320
<v Speaker 5>I don't really know him, like personally personally, but his saying,

1:52:23.439 --> 1:52:26.040
<v Speaker 5>uh he goes by the name Yo Bangda uh huh.

1:52:26.120 --> 1:52:30.120
<v Speaker 3>You know what I'm saying. Yeah, x street dude. Everybody

1:52:30.200 --> 1:52:30.760
<v Speaker 3>love him.

1:52:30.960 --> 1:52:36.800
<v Speaker 5>You're me yeah, yeah, bro be outside like politicket, Yeah,

1:52:36.920 --> 1:52:41.280
<v Speaker 5>running programs, you know, doing stuff like that. So those

1:52:41.360 --> 1:52:44.559
<v Speaker 5>are the people that calls change in every community. Let

1:52:44.640 --> 1:52:46.639
<v Speaker 5>me tell you a place while we're on this subject,

1:52:46.640 --> 1:52:50.760
<v Speaker 5>where I think we fail it, especially with organizations. Organizations

1:52:50.760 --> 1:52:54.719
<v Speaker 5>that typically come into our neighborhood. They come for agenda, yeah,

1:52:54.760 --> 1:52:58.439
<v Speaker 5>and politics, And what they don't understand is what you're saying,

1:52:58.640 --> 1:53:00.960
<v Speaker 5>if you understand the hood, you want to staying politics.

1:53:01.439 --> 1:53:03.519
<v Speaker 5>So when they pull up on us in the hood

1:53:03.680 --> 1:53:06.519
<v Speaker 5>and they got this big organization with all this money

1:53:06.720 --> 1:53:08.560
<v Speaker 5>and they're like, this is what we want to do. No,

1:53:09.200 --> 1:53:12.080
<v Speaker 5>you're telling me that because you're trying to build an

1:53:12.200 --> 1:53:15.040
<v Speaker 5>army of people to fight for your calls. And what

1:53:15.080 --> 1:53:18.000
<v Speaker 5>they do is they come into our spaces and they

1:53:18.040 --> 1:53:20.160
<v Speaker 5>don't empower those people right there.

1:53:21.000 --> 1:53:22.840
<v Speaker 3>I've said this to people one hundred times.

1:53:22.840 --> 1:53:25.040
<v Speaker 7>If you really really really want to see.

1:53:24.880 --> 1:53:27.720
<v Speaker 5>Impact and see change, you need to go to the

1:53:27.800 --> 1:53:30.760
<v Speaker 5>community and see the people that are already leading it.

1:53:30.880 --> 1:53:33.000
<v Speaker 7>There you go the people that you're talking about.

1:53:33.280 --> 1:53:35.439
<v Speaker 5>The reason I'm able to go into park in that

1:53:35.520 --> 1:53:39.479
<v Speaker 5>neighborhood is because I'm a leader over there.

1:53:39.680 --> 1:53:44.040
<v Speaker 3>At one point, I was one of the leaders actively. Yeah.

1:53:44.160 --> 1:53:47.840
<v Speaker 5>So people don't know me, they respect me, they understand

1:53:47.880 --> 1:53:51.320
<v Speaker 5>my journey and my transition, and that rapport is what

1:53:51.520 --> 1:53:52.439
<v Speaker 5>get the work done.

1:53:52.640 --> 1:53:55.520
<v Speaker 7>Police a reactor. Bro By the said, the police come somebody.

1:53:55.280 --> 1:53:56.639
<v Speaker 3>Dead, It's already done. Yeah.

1:53:56.720 --> 1:54:00.640
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's people like me on the phone when Brok like, man, bro,

1:54:00.680 --> 1:54:01.439
<v Speaker 5>I'm about the snap.

1:54:01.520 --> 1:54:03.680
<v Speaker 3>It's like, nah, bro, where you at? Like you know

1:54:03.840 --> 1:54:04.439
<v Speaker 3>what we're doing?

1:54:04.800 --> 1:54:07.800
<v Speaker 5>And so I think those people need to be empowered more.

1:54:08.280 --> 1:54:12.040
<v Speaker 5>For any organization that's listening or that possibly here, it is.

1:54:12.439 --> 1:54:14.400
<v Speaker 5>We don't need you to come out our community and

1:54:14.439 --> 1:54:16.800
<v Speaker 5>build a hub. We don't need you to put an

1:54:16.840 --> 1:54:19.559
<v Speaker 5>office there. And I'm just gonna be candidate and bring

1:54:19.600 --> 1:54:21.000
<v Speaker 5>a whole lot of white people.

1:54:21.120 --> 1:54:23.679
<v Speaker 7>Facts and gentrify a program.

1:54:23.800 --> 1:54:24.639
<v Speaker 3>We don't need that.

1:54:25.040 --> 1:54:29.960
<v Speaker 5>What is needed is if you have resources, you have money,

1:54:30.000 --> 1:54:33.919
<v Speaker 5>you have things you could bring structure, you could bring system,

1:54:34.200 --> 1:54:37.760
<v Speaker 5>but bring it to empower the person that's already in

1:54:37.800 --> 1:54:40.160
<v Speaker 5>that space. It's gonna take you thirty years to get

1:54:40.160 --> 1:54:41.360
<v Speaker 5>to kind of respect that person.

1:54:41.400 --> 1:54:43.000
<v Speaker 3>Get over there already, Jims.

1:54:43.400 --> 1:54:46.200
<v Speaker 5>And you know why they can't be fully involved because

1:54:46.200 --> 1:54:48.000
<v Speaker 5>they still got to work, They still gotta do thing.

1:54:48.280 --> 1:54:50.840
<v Speaker 7>You still yes, you still yes, man.

1:54:50.960 --> 1:54:54.360
<v Speaker 5>So if you want to really empower the community, take

1:54:54.480 --> 1:54:58.200
<v Speaker 5>that forty fifty sixty seventy thousand, one hundred thousand that

1:54:58.280 --> 1:55:01.920
<v Speaker 5>you're about to run on this campaign against whoever else

1:55:01.960 --> 1:55:04.440
<v Speaker 5>you don't like. Yeah, and take some of that money,

1:55:04.640 --> 1:55:07.120
<v Speaker 5>take about seventy five k that and give it to

1:55:07.480 --> 1:55:08.760
<v Speaker 5>somebody like Yo Bang.

1:55:08.680 --> 1:55:11.320
<v Speaker 15>Yo bang a missad. Yeah, but it was Alex Carrasco.

1:55:11.480 --> 1:55:11.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:55:12.040 --> 1:55:14.040
<v Speaker 7>Get the people like that, yup.

1:55:14.200 --> 1:55:16.080
<v Speaker 15>Because we lived in the Mexican hoods. You know, he

1:55:16.160 --> 1:55:18.360
<v Speaker 15>had his to despoon thos Like we already knew. He

1:55:18.480 --> 1:55:20.440
<v Speaker 15>was like, what what the people like that? Give it

1:55:20.480 --> 1:55:22.400
<v Speaker 15>to him? You know what I'm saying, he'd looked that man.

1:55:22.440 --> 1:55:26.919
<v Speaker 15>Took me camping for the first time with with Alex Carrasco.

1:55:27.200 --> 1:55:29.440
<v Speaker 7>You know what I'm saying, Like, believe it or not,

1:55:29.640 --> 1:55:30.480
<v Speaker 7>believe it or not.

1:55:30.880 --> 1:55:34.320
<v Speaker 5>Part of the reason that you turned out the way

1:55:34.360 --> 1:55:36.520
<v Speaker 5>you did is because of siege that people like him

1:55:36.560 --> 1:55:39.400
<v Speaker 5>playing it. Yep, no facts, It was the difference between

1:55:39.440 --> 1:55:40.600
<v Speaker 5>you and the other dudes on the.

1:55:40.520 --> 1:55:41.360
<v Speaker 7>Block that didn't go.

1:55:41.480 --> 1:55:46.240
<v Speaker 5>That's exactly like exposure, bro, is she what you're exposed

1:55:46.280 --> 1:55:48.120
<v Speaker 5>to right now? One of my missions I'm working on

1:55:48.160 --> 1:55:49.720
<v Speaker 5>over the next couple of years, Well, I'm gonna take

1:55:49.720 --> 1:55:50.640
<v Speaker 5>a group of kids from the.

1:55:50.560 --> 1:55:52.840
<v Speaker 3>Hood to Africa. They have to see it, bro, that's

1:55:52.880 --> 1:55:53.720
<v Speaker 3>one of my missions.

1:55:53.760 --> 1:55:56.280
<v Speaker 5>They have to Yes, Yeah, I'm gonna take a bunch

1:55:56.280 --> 1:55:58.400
<v Speaker 5>of kids from the hood to Africa, like so they

1:55:58.400 --> 1:56:00.560
<v Speaker 5>can get over there and see what it really look like.

1:56:00.840 --> 1:56:03.600
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, but also just taking them other places.

1:56:03.280 --> 1:56:05.680
<v Speaker 3>They could also go to, like Denver, Like.

1:56:07.160 --> 1:56:09.840
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I took a group of kids to Kaa a

1:56:09.880 --> 1:56:13.080
<v Speaker 5>few years back, like in the city kids, Yeah, and.

1:56:13.120 --> 1:56:14.880
<v Speaker 3>They were blown away. Yeah.

1:56:15.080 --> 1:56:17.520
<v Speaker 5>Like like you said, going camping, you get to see

1:56:18.360 --> 1:56:19.640
<v Speaker 5>water and boats.

1:56:19.840 --> 1:56:21.960
<v Speaker 15>When I used to teach, I taught in the city

1:56:21.960 --> 1:56:24.320
<v Speaker 15>called Pomona. It's in the Inland Empire. It's kids from

1:56:24.440 --> 1:56:27.080
<v Speaker 15>La I've never seen the beach, Like you've never seen

1:56:27.080 --> 1:56:29.160
<v Speaker 15>the ocean and you're from Los Angeles, you know what

1:56:29.160 --> 1:56:34.080
<v Speaker 15>I'm saying. So like, yeah, that exposure changes everything. Have

1:56:34.200 --> 1:56:37.120
<v Speaker 15>you set up some sort of like fundraising things so

1:56:37.160 --> 1:56:38.960
<v Speaker 15>we can see if we could get our listeners to

1:56:39.040 --> 1:56:40.760
<v Speaker 15>maybe like fund this Africa drip.

1:56:40.880 --> 1:56:42.840
<v Speaker 7>So if you go to my page, just like one

1:56:42.920 --> 1:56:44.240
<v Speaker 7>hundred foundation dot or.

1:56:44.480 --> 1:56:46.000
<v Speaker 3>Like one hundred foundation dot org.

1:56:46.040 --> 1:56:49.240
<v Speaker 5>Okay, yeah, it's a donation tab, it'll go to the

1:56:49.800 --> 1:56:50.280
<v Speaker 5>give but.

1:56:50.280 --> 1:56:53.560
<v Speaker 15>A page, Okay, we will link to that. Yes, see

1:56:53.640 --> 1:56:56.360
<v Speaker 15>that's all I needed. Yeah, listen, bro, I want to

1:56:56.400 --> 1:56:57.400
<v Speaker 15>thank you for your time.

1:56:57.480 --> 1:56:57.680
<v Speaker 8>Man.

1:56:58.160 --> 1:57:00.240
<v Speaker 15>Some of y'all know, like I've known this man for

1:57:00.280 --> 1:57:03.800
<v Speaker 15>a long time. We've we've ran ran into many A

1:57:03.920 --> 1:57:06.440
<v Speaker 15>cities and many A shows.

1:57:06.040 --> 1:57:09.280
<v Speaker 3>And always appreciated you too.

1:57:09.600 --> 1:57:11.640
<v Speaker 15>Yes, sirry Man, I think there was a little bit

1:57:11.640 --> 1:57:14.760
<v Speaker 15>of like we've been sitting in green rooms that both

1:57:14.800 --> 1:57:18.240
<v Speaker 15>of us know good and well that we just why

1:57:18.240 --> 1:57:20.640
<v Speaker 15>are we here, Like we have no reason to be

1:57:20.720 --> 1:57:24.120
<v Speaker 15>in this room, but we are. It just has very

1:57:24.160 --> 1:57:26.920
<v Speaker 15>much a very much like a real recognized real with

1:57:27.040 --> 1:57:29.040
<v Speaker 15>somebody like this man. And like you said, Bro, like

1:57:29.120 --> 1:57:32.240
<v Speaker 15>there's thistles in every city man, and I appreciate the

1:57:32.280 --> 1:57:34.520
<v Speaker 15>fact that, like, and that's part of what makes you

1:57:34.560 --> 1:57:37.240
<v Speaker 15>what you are, is that, like it's the things that

1:57:37.360 --> 1:57:42.080
<v Speaker 15>happen that when there's no cameras on that for us

1:57:42.120 --> 1:57:44.600
<v Speaker 15>that we're mostly proud of. It's not the stuff that

1:57:44.760 --> 1:57:47.440
<v Speaker 15>like everybody sees, it's what's happened, like you said, it's

1:57:47.480 --> 1:57:51.400
<v Speaker 15>when it's the phone calls you have to have, you know,

1:57:51.480 --> 1:57:53.120
<v Speaker 15>the meetings you have to set up, you know what

1:57:53.120 --> 1:57:56.480
<v Speaker 15>I'm saying, And like the like those things are are

1:57:56.760 --> 1:57:59.000
<v Speaker 15>are the things that really keep a city safe.

1:57:59.400 --> 1:58:01.520
<v Speaker 5>I want to say before we go, we talked about

1:58:01.520 --> 1:58:05.240
<v Speaker 5>something before you start recording. Yeah, and I want to

1:58:05.280 --> 1:58:09.040
<v Speaker 5>point it out because I think it's important too. We

1:58:09.040 --> 1:58:15.120
<v Speaker 5>were talking about how resources prevent violence. Yeah, so everybody

1:58:15.200 --> 1:58:19.560
<v Speaker 5>know where there's no hope, there's violence, there is desperate right. Yes,

1:58:19.680 --> 1:58:24.080
<v Speaker 5>So right now in Saint Louis, we have been informed

1:58:24.840 --> 1:58:27.920
<v Speaker 5>that the senator who's a Republican centater.

1:58:28.720 --> 1:58:30.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he's linked.

1:58:30.080 --> 1:58:34.000
<v Speaker 7>Up with pjt Okay, okay, and there you are.

1:58:34.360 --> 1:58:38.120
<v Speaker 5>They're building an FBI base here and they're bringing in

1:58:38.200 --> 1:58:41.840
<v Speaker 5>more FBI agents to divert violence.

1:58:42.400 --> 1:58:43.320
<v Speaker 3>Right. Yeah.

1:58:43.800 --> 1:58:48.280
<v Speaker 5>One again, law enforcement is a reaction to crime. They

1:58:48.320 --> 1:58:52.280
<v Speaker 5>don't prevent it. Yeah, here's the reality that everybody that

1:58:52.440 --> 1:58:55.160
<v Speaker 5>has a brain to think should be aware of. I

1:58:55.200 --> 1:58:58.080
<v Speaker 5>don't care how many FBI you bring, how many police

1:58:58.120 --> 1:59:03.560
<v Speaker 5>you hire. There are not enough law enforcement to govern

1:59:04.040 --> 1:59:04.520
<v Speaker 5>the earth.

1:59:04.600 --> 1:59:06.480
<v Speaker 7>Yes, yes, period, there's too many of them.

1:59:06.600 --> 1:59:09.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there's not there's too many of us. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

1:59:09.480 --> 1:59:11.240
<v Speaker 3>you can't govern the earth.

1:59:11.560 --> 1:59:14.280
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, like that's that's that's a no go.

1:59:14.640 --> 1:59:15.320
<v Speaker 3>Right. Yeah.

1:59:15.480 --> 1:59:18.520
<v Speaker 5>Most cases, when I see people make these arguments about this,

1:59:19.120 --> 1:59:21.080
<v Speaker 5>I'm a person I like to use facts.

1:59:21.120 --> 1:59:23.640
<v Speaker 3>I get straight to the facts, like we get the points.

1:59:23.880 --> 1:59:27.200
<v Speaker 5>So in Saint Lewis, right, from twenty twenty to twenty

1:59:27.560 --> 1:59:32.360
<v Speaker 5>twenty four, the murder rate in Saint Louis has dropped

1:59:32.960 --> 1:59:35.080
<v Speaker 5>by one hundred and thirteen.

1:59:35.480 --> 1:59:39.160
<v Speaker 15>Come on, man, yeah, one hundred and thirteen, bro, that's

1:59:39.200 --> 1:59:40.080
<v Speaker 15>a lot of lives.

1:59:40.280 --> 1:59:40.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:59:40.480 --> 1:59:44.640
<v Speaker 5>So in twenty twenty, the number of homicides at Saint

1:59:44.720 --> 1:59:48.600
<v Speaker 5>Louis was two hundred and sixty three. The number in

1:59:48.680 --> 1:59:52.000
<v Speaker 5>twenty twenty four were one hundred and fifty. See, there

1:59:52.080 --> 1:59:55.280
<v Speaker 5>are certain things that I'm not gonna say they are

1:59:55.400 --> 1:59:59.000
<v Speaker 5>the exclusive reason. But there are certain things that I

1:59:59.040 --> 2:00:02.240
<v Speaker 5>know have contribute today. And it's not law enforcement because

2:00:02.480 --> 2:00:04.400
<v Speaker 5>our police force is short right now.

2:00:04.400 --> 2:00:06.160
<v Speaker 3>They gone, they don't do too much and nothing.

2:00:06.280 --> 2:00:08.160
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, there are a few things I know they have

2:00:08.240 --> 2:00:13.480
<v Speaker 5>contributed to that. The magic thing is resources, yeah, and compassion.

2:00:13.920 --> 2:00:16.320
<v Speaker 7>But they are few. Through a certain few things that

2:00:16.360 --> 2:00:17.200
<v Speaker 7>I want to shout out.

2:00:17.240 --> 2:00:21.240
<v Speaker 5>One of them is an organization called FCCY Freedom Center

2:00:21.400 --> 2:00:24.800
<v Speaker 5>Saint Louis. My hoomie Mike Milton. The other one is

2:00:24.840 --> 2:00:29.120
<v Speaker 5>Action Saint Louis. The other one is Missus Saint Louis.

2:00:29.360 --> 2:00:33.720
<v Speaker 5>The other one is we Power Saint Louis. We power STL.

2:00:33.880 --> 2:00:40.440
<v Speaker 5>They fund early childhood development. Word like crucially important for

2:00:40.560 --> 2:00:45.200
<v Speaker 5>our community. Wow, you got mcc action Saint Louis, missus,

2:00:45.280 --> 2:00:48.840
<v Speaker 5>Saint Louis Black Men, Bill, We power STL.

2:00:49.240 --> 2:00:51.480
<v Speaker 3>Just to name a few people like your bangor.

2:00:52.000 --> 2:00:58.480
<v Speaker 5>These are the people that have been actively in the community.

2:00:58.200 --> 2:01:02.879
<v Speaker 7>For the past four years. A past mayor to Charlotte Jones.

2:01:03.440 --> 2:01:06.400
<v Speaker 5>She probably got a lot of things wrong in people asked,

2:01:06.760 --> 2:01:10.920
<v Speaker 5>but she was directing certain things and empowering people in

2:01:10.960 --> 2:01:11.640
<v Speaker 5>a certain way.

2:01:12.280 --> 2:01:15.800
<v Speaker 7>These organizations have thrived.

2:01:15.320 --> 2:01:18.760
<v Speaker 5>Over the past four years and as a result, you

2:01:18.960 --> 2:01:23.480
<v Speaker 5>see the number of homicides in the city. D Chris, So,

2:01:23.520 --> 2:01:25.720
<v Speaker 5>why do we need to bring more FBI agents?

2:01:25.720 --> 2:01:27.120
<v Speaker 3>What is that for? Show?

2:01:27.760 --> 2:01:30.800
<v Speaker 5>Shouldn't we be throwing more money into these organizations if

2:01:30.840 --> 2:01:34.440
<v Speaker 5>they are out here the turn trying they got the

2:01:34.560 --> 2:01:41.600
<v Speaker 5>FCC has data, Yeah, they have data of reconciliation. I'm

2:01:41.600 --> 2:01:46.160
<v Speaker 5>talking about my boy, Mike Milton. He's stepping into roles.

2:01:46.400 --> 2:01:49.320
<v Speaker 5>With one case in particular, a young man was driving

2:01:49.360 --> 2:01:50.640
<v Speaker 5>in the car with another young man.

2:01:50.760 --> 2:01:51.440
<v Speaker 7>He was drunk.

2:01:51.440 --> 2:01:52.520
<v Speaker 3>The young man died.

2:01:53.080 --> 2:01:55.080
<v Speaker 7>He reconciled him with the mother.

2:01:55.240 --> 2:01:58.360
<v Speaker 5>The mother in return went to the judge and was like,

2:01:58.400 --> 2:02:00.520
<v Speaker 5>he don't need to go to jail here either, gonna treatment.

2:02:00.840 --> 2:02:05.120
<v Speaker 3>Wow, Like why is he going to prison? Wow? Damn man.

2:02:05.240 --> 2:02:08.400
<v Speaker 5>And then when they get when they get rid of justice, yeah,

2:02:08.800 --> 2:02:11.839
<v Speaker 5>with sort of justice. When they get released from prison,

2:02:11.960 --> 2:02:15.160
<v Speaker 5>they go to SCC and they spend time with them

2:02:15.440 --> 2:02:16.880
<v Speaker 5>and they learn.

2:02:17.240 --> 2:02:21.800
<v Speaker 3>The storative justice. They take accountability. Wow. Wow.

2:02:22.160 --> 2:02:26.560
<v Speaker 5>So if we go if we need anything in Saint Louis,

2:02:26.720 --> 2:02:32.440
<v Speaker 5>in DC, in Chicago, if we need anything in these cities,

2:02:32.480 --> 2:02:36.240
<v Speaker 5>what we need or people to be realistic about what's

2:02:36.280 --> 2:02:39.280
<v Speaker 5>happening and if you want to do something, say some

2:02:39.320 --> 2:02:41.040
<v Speaker 5>of the funds you're gonna use to have more law

2:02:41.120 --> 2:02:45.000
<v Speaker 5>enforcement into these places where you know people are already

2:02:45.040 --> 2:02:46.720
<v Speaker 5>doing things. Because let me tell you something else, it's

2:02:46.760 --> 2:02:49.760
<v Speaker 5>twenty twenty six almost, it's twenty twenty five. Ain't nobody

2:02:49.840 --> 2:02:51.680
<v Speaker 5>scared of the police like they used to be. This

2:02:51.720 --> 2:02:53.240
<v Speaker 5>ain't nineteen sixty.

2:02:52.880 --> 2:02:53.720
<v Speaker 3>Two, bro, sir.

2:02:53.760 --> 2:02:56.040
<v Speaker 5>Don't nobody's seen the police and be like, oh my gosh,

2:02:56.080 --> 2:02:59.440
<v Speaker 5>you'll go to police these grown men just like another

2:02:59.480 --> 2:02:59.960
<v Speaker 5>grown man.

2:03:00.440 --> 2:03:03.200
<v Speaker 7>Ain't nobody scared of police no more? That ain't a

2:03:03.200 --> 2:03:05.920
<v Speaker 7>thing lead like the rest of us. That's not a thing. Yeah,

2:03:05.920 --> 2:03:09.400
<v Speaker 7>you belied like the rest of us. Mumble with the police. Bro,

2:03:09.560 --> 2:03:12.640
<v Speaker 7>they dangerous right now, straight spirt up. That's what I'm

2:03:12.640 --> 2:03:13.160
<v Speaker 7>trying to say.

2:03:14.320 --> 2:03:16.960
<v Speaker 15>Look, we can talk about this right because that's the

2:03:16.960 --> 2:03:18.320
<v Speaker 15>way we are with these ice agents.

2:03:18.320 --> 2:03:19.480
<v Speaker 3>It's like, you think I'm scared.

2:03:19.320 --> 2:03:21.280
<v Speaker 7>Of you, bro, You think I'm scared.

2:03:21.000 --> 2:03:21.520
<v Speaker 3>Of you homie.

2:03:21.680 --> 2:03:25.480
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, anyway, thank you this, Thank you for it, for

2:03:25.640 --> 2:03:28.280
<v Speaker 15>like bringing it back to the data and shining the

2:03:28.360 --> 2:03:31.240
<v Speaker 15>light on like people actually doing the work. You can

2:03:31.240 --> 2:03:34.400
<v Speaker 15>follow you on Instagram. It's I am thiszle.

2:03:34.080 --> 2:03:37.120
<v Speaker 5>Right, it's th hi is l this yeah, th h

2:03:37.200 --> 2:03:40.000
<v Speaker 5>I s l fl like one hundred foundation dot org

2:03:41.160 --> 2:03:43.120
<v Speaker 5>is the website social media.

2:03:43.160 --> 2:03:44.520
<v Speaker 3>You've been found all that stuff there.

2:03:44.680 --> 2:03:47.560
<v Speaker 15>You'll find all that all right, It can happen here.

2:03:47.680 --> 2:03:49.680
<v Speaker 15>Cool zone media. We appreciate y'all.

2:03:50.200 --> 2:03:51.000
<v Speaker 7>Appreciate you.

2:03:51.040 --> 2:03:51.160
<v Speaker 5>Bro.

2:03:51.720 --> 2:04:11.320
<v Speaker 3>Yes, sir, I'm not Robert Evans. I'm not going to

2:04:11.360 --> 2:04:14.720
<v Speaker 3>start this episode with a horrible noise. Welcome to it

2:04:14.760 --> 2:04:18.400
<v Speaker 3>could happen to hear a show about things falling apart

2:04:19.400 --> 2:04:23.400
<v Speaker 3>with me today, Mio Wong, James Stout, I'm Garrison Davis.

2:04:23.680 --> 2:04:27.840
<v Speaker 18>We have never as a society been this Year's of

2:04:27.920 --> 2:04:32.280
<v Speaker 18>Lead paint as we are now, Oh my god.

2:04:33.920 --> 2:04:34.960
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, it's not great.

2:04:35.240 --> 2:04:38.080
<v Speaker 3>Speaking of things falling apart, the lead paint in my

2:04:38.160 --> 2:04:41.360
<v Speaker 3>room is crumbling. It's probably great things to my brain, wonderful,

2:04:41.400 --> 2:04:45.040
<v Speaker 3>love this, love this, so okay. Most a lot of

2:04:45.040 --> 2:04:47.440
<v Speaker 3>this episode is going to be about the Charlie Kirk

2:04:47.920 --> 2:04:50.960
<v Speaker 3>assassination and everyone's reaction to it, and everyone's sort of

2:04:50.960 --> 2:04:54.400
<v Speaker 3>losing their minds. But I think that the place that

2:04:54.440 --> 2:04:57.800
<v Speaker 3>we want to start is with a little bit about

2:04:57.840 --> 2:04:59.720
<v Speaker 3>the concept of the years of Lead Paint, which is

2:04:59.720 --> 2:05:03.080
<v Speaker 3>develop by friend of the show, Vicky Osterwall to explain

2:05:03.160 --> 2:05:05.480
<v Speaker 3>something I feel like almost everyone's forgotten about, which was

2:05:05.560 --> 2:05:07.800
<v Speaker 3>right after Trump got elected, there was that car bomb

2:05:07.840 --> 2:05:10.760
<v Speaker 3>outside of a Trump hotel that was like a tesla

2:05:10.840 --> 2:05:12.400
<v Speaker 3>that was a right winger who was trying to get

2:05:12.400 --> 2:05:14.680
<v Speaker 3>everyone to like do the purge.

2:05:16.480 --> 2:05:20.680
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, the cyber trek, former Green Beret guy.

2:05:21.560 --> 2:05:22.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

2:05:22.360 --> 2:05:26.280
<v Speaker 18>And this is the kind of thing that you would

2:05:26.320 --> 2:05:28.320
<v Speaker 18>have seen during the original Years of Lead.

2:05:28.440 --> 2:05:28.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

2:05:29.320 --> 2:05:31.760
<v Speaker 18>So for people who don't know what the original Years

2:05:31.760 --> 2:05:33.960
<v Speaker 18>of Lead was, because this is becoming a thing that

2:05:34.000 --> 2:05:36.360
<v Speaker 18>people are using to understand what's going on now. And

2:05:36.440 --> 2:05:39.160
<v Speaker 18>I think there are problems with that that we'll get to.

2:05:40.200 --> 2:05:44.080
<v Speaker 18>But the original years of lead are this period from

2:05:44.280 --> 2:05:46.320
<v Speaker 18>I mean that there's you know, you can you can

2:05:46.320 --> 2:05:49.880
<v Speaker 18>start in a couple different places, but like roughly sort

2:05:49.920 --> 2:05:52.640
<v Speaker 18>of like the sixties or the eighties, like early mid

2:05:52.680 --> 2:05:58.200
<v Speaker 18>eighties in Italy that are this period of really really

2:05:58.240 --> 2:06:01.040
<v Speaker 18>intensifies in the seventies. It's really really intense period of

2:06:01.080 --> 2:06:06.400
<v Speaker 18>political violence in Italy. It is largely a right wing

2:06:06.440 --> 2:06:11.440
<v Speaker 18>reaction to this massive series of uprisings in Italy. I mean,

2:06:12.240 --> 2:06:16.080
<v Speaker 18>the whole the whole sixties in Italy are a time

2:06:16.160 --> 2:06:19.560
<v Speaker 18>of incredible sort of turmoil and left wing uprising. There's

2:06:20.440 --> 2:06:22.760
<v Speaker 18>I mean, I think there's first factory occupations are like

2:06:22.800 --> 2:06:25.760
<v Speaker 18>sixty five, but there's the fact there's the massive factory

2:06:25.800 --> 2:06:28.160
<v Speaker 18>occupations in nineteen sixty eight, which are sort of a

2:06:28.200 --> 2:06:32.200
<v Speaker 18>global phenomena. But then also the next year there is

2:06:32.240 --> 2:06:35.280
<v Speaker 18>an evance called and this is literally the term for it,

2:06:35.320 --> 2:06:38.000
<v Speaker 18>the Hot Autumn of sixty nine, which.

2:06:38.480 --> 2:06:41.440
<v Speaker 3>I'm not even gonna really a.

2:06:41.080 --> 2:06:44.800
<v Speaker 18>Nice great yeah, which which was this massive like a

2:06:44.880 --> 2:06:48.959
<v Speaker 18>second series of like you know, workers taking over factories

2:06:48.960 --> 2:06:52.240
<v Speaker 18>and starting like factory councils, and like there are so

2:06:52.320 --> 2:06:55.480
<v Speaker 18>many communist factions that, like the communist faction that's doing

2:06:55.560 --> 2:06:57.920
<v Speaker 18>this stuff, they have mutated to a point where they're

2:06:57.920 --> 2:07:01.360
<v Speaker 18>almost effectively anarchists. This is what's called the autonomists. And

2:07:01.400 --> 2:07:03.720
<v Speaker 18>this becomes like a major influence on like American anarchism

2:07:03.840 --> 2:07:06.920
<v Speaker 18>later and in response to the fact that these people

2:07:07.400 --> 2:07:12.000
<v Speaker 18>very nearly on multiple occasions, like very nearly take Italy,

2:07:12.720 --> 2:07:17.440
<v Speaker 18>a combination of rut wing fascist groups and organizations inside

2:07:17.480 --> 2:07:21.280
<v Speaker 18>of and sort of parallel to the Italian government developed

2:07:21.280 --> 2:07:24.560
<v Speaker 18>this thing called the strategy of tension, which and I

2:07:24.560 --> 2:07:27.400
<v Speaker 18>think this will to some extent sound familiar in terms

2:07:27.440 --> 2:07:31.280
<v Speaker 18>of what's happening right now, which is this strategy of

2:07:31.680 --> 2:07:36.880
<v Speaker 18>using terrorist attacks and using political violence to show this

2:07:37.160 --> 2:07:40.200
<v Speaker 18>like fear and panic and chaos that would cause people

2:07:40.200 --> 2:07:42.480
<v Speaker 18>to turn to the state for safety and cause people

2:07:42.520 --> 2:07:45.080
<v Speaker 18>to turn specifically to like a stronger, like more fascist

2:07:45.080 --> 2:07:46.800
<v Speaker 18>and then eventually just a straight up fascist state that

2:07:46.840 --> 2:07:50.000
<v Speaker 18>would permanently destroy the left and you know, like restore

2:07:50.080 --> 2:07:52.000
<v Speaker 18>the power of the Nazis, et cetera, et cetera. Well,

2:07:52.080 --> 2:07:55.040
<v Speaker 18>I mean not Muslin, these people Italian fascists, the og

2:07:55.320 --> 2:07:58.960
<v Speaker 18>fascists well, and also neo fascists too, because they're these

2:07:59.000 --> 2:08:00.920
<v Speaker 18>people are very weird Italians.

2:08:01.680 --> 2:08:04.680
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, these people are Italians. Yeah, Yeah, many such cases.

2:08:04.920 --> 2:08:06.800
<v Speaker 18>One of the big opening things is that the Piazza

2:08:06.840 --> 2:08:09.640
<v Speaker 18>Fontana bombing, which is this massive bombing that kills nineteen

2:08:09.640 --> 2:08:13.200
<v Speaker 18>people Injures, an unbelievable number of people, and it is

2:08:13.280 --> 2:08:17.440
<v Speaker 18>immediately blamed on anarchists. There's an anarchist named Giuseppe Pinelli

2:08:17.640 --> 2:08:21.360
<v Speaker 18>who he's among like eighty anarchists who arrested almost immediately,

2:08:21.440 --> 2:08:24.720
<v Speaker 18>he like somehow falls out of a four story window

2:08:24.800 --> 2:08:27.360
<v Speaker 18>of a police building while he was being interrogated.

2:08:27.480 --> 2:08:28.600
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

2:08:28.680 --> 2:08:31.280
<v Speaker 3>The Italian state, which will go on to admit a

2:08:31.320 --> 2:08:33.160
<v Speaker 3>lot of the shit that it did, maintains to this

2:08:33.280 --> 2:08:34.880
<v Speaker 3>day that he just got tired and fell out the

2:08:34.880 --> 2:08:38.520
<v Speaker 3>window himself. I'm gonna let you.

2:08:38.440 --> 2:08:39.480
<v Speaker 6>Try your archductions.

2:08:39.840 --> 2:08:41.840
<v Speaker 3>I think this guy died. I mean a lot of

2:08:41.920 --> 2:08:43.280
<v Speaker 3>a lot of anarchists are lazy.

2:08:43.360 --> 2:08:43.920
<v Speaker 6>I can see, I.

2:08:43.960 --> 2:08:46.000
<v Speaker 3>Can see that happening. Yeah.

2:08:46.040 --> 2:08:49.160
<v Speaker 6>There is a good a play that I took part

2:08:49.160 --> 2:08:52.240
<v Speaker 6>in during high school called Accidental Death of an Anarchist

2:08:52.280 --> 2:08:55.360
<v Speaker 6>by Dario Foe, Yeah, which you can enjoy.

2:08:55.520 --> 2:09:00.880
<v Speaker 3>This is the most like James backstory moment seen before.

2:09:01.440 --> 2:09:06.480
<v Speaker 3>This is wild. Yeah, whoa someone someone update the icy

2:09:06.760 --> 2:09:12.600
<v Speaker 3>HH wiki page. James backstory. This is great.

2:09:13.400 --> 2:09:15.080
<v Speaker 6>Yeah my theater era.

2:09:15.360 --> 2:09:16.400
<v Speaker 3>Who did you play?

2:09:16.640 --> 2:09:19.960
<v Speaker 6>I can't remember? It was tragic twenty years ago.

2:09:20.200 --> 2:09:21.720
<v Speaker 3>You should you should have remembered.

2:09:22.000 --> 2:09:24.240
<v Speaker 6>Oh, I know. It was very fun. We had a

2:09:24.280 --> 2:09:27.320
<v Speaker 6>good soundtrack. It was very enjoyable for me and my friends,

2:09:27.480 --> 2:09:29.920
<v Speaker 6>and I'm sure all eight people who watched it also

2:09:29.960 --> 2:09:30.920
<v Speaker 6>had a wonderful time.

2:09:34.320 --> 2:09:36.760
<v Speaker 18>So in less fun times, So this bombing was actually

2:09:36.800 --> 2:09:39.280
<v Speaker 18>carried out by a group called Ordine Nouvo, which is

2:09:39.680 --> 2:09:42.640
<v Speaker 18>it's literally new order. Fascist groups only have four names.

2:09:43.960 --> 2:09:46.560
<v Speaker 18>And this is a group that was aided by a

2:09:46.600 --> 2:09:50.560
<v Speaker 18>combination of Italian intelligence and this thing called Gladio, which

2:09:50.640 --> 2:09:54.640
<v Speaker 18>was this American netwill sort of stayed behind networking case

2:09:54.680 --> 2:09:57.760
<v Speaker 18>of Soviet invasion that had all of these weapons cashes

2:09:57.760 --> 2:10:00.200
<v Speaker 18>placed around the country that's eventually sort of repurposed into

2:10:00.200 --> 2:10:03.280
<v Speaker 18>these fascist terror cells. And they do a lot of these, right,

2:10:03.320 --> 2:10:06.280
<v Speaker 18>They do a lot of bombings and they and they

2:10:06.320 --> 2:10:08.960
<v Speaker 18>mostly blame the left for them. Probably the most famous

2:10:09.000 --> 2:10:11.280
<v Speaker 18>one is the Bologna train bombing, which killed like eighty

2:10:11.320 --> 2:10:14.080
<v Speaker 18>people injured a huge number of other people, was done

2:10:14.080 --> 2:10:17.320
<v Speaker 18>by a kind of like like another fascist group. Right,

2:10:17.960 --> 2:10:20.480
<v Speaker 18>this is also a period where like there is real

2:10:20.560 --> 2:10:23.520
<v Speaker 18>left wing violence. Right, the left is doing like like well,

2:10:23.520 --> 2:10:25.760
<v Speaker 18>one of the things they kidnap bosses and have like

2:10:26.000 --> 2:10:28.800
<v Speaker 18>show trials of bosses all the time. They love doing

2:10:28.840 --> 2:10:31.200
<v Speaker 18>this factory bosses.

2:10:31.360 --> 2:10:36.240
<v Speaker 3>Just like in The Dark Knight Rises by Marxist historian

2:10:36.320 --> 2:10:39.000
<v Speaker 3>Christopher Nolan. God.

2:10:39.920 --> 2:10:41.360
<v Speaker 18>I see, I thought you were gonna say, just like

2:10:41.360 --> 2:10:42.200
<v Speaker 18>cancel culture, but.

2:10:43.400 --> 2:10:46.720
<v Speaker 3>Just like just like what the right's doing right now

2:10:46.760 --> 2:10:50.160
<v Speaker 3>for anyone who posts about Charlie Kirk, you know.

2:10:50.240 --> 2:10:52.720
<v Speaker 18>But but there was also stuff like, for example, Lota Continua,

2:10:52.840 --> 2:10:57.200
<v Speaker 18>which is a leftist group of staggering complexity, I like

2:10:57.680 --> 2:11:02.440
<v Speaker 18>killed the police officer who was interrogating Guiseppe Pinelli. So

2:11:02.640 --> 2:11:05.240
<v Speaker 18>you know, like there are left wing assassinations. A group

2:11:05.280 --> 2:11:08.560
<v Speaker 18>called the Red Brigades kidnaps the former Prime Minister of Italy,

2:11:08.600 --> 2:11:11.720
<v Speaker 18>Aldo Moro. See every other episode where I've yelled about this.

2:11:12.680 --> 2:11:14.520
<v Speaker 18>They had been heavily infiltrated and were sort of being

2:11:14.520 --> 2:11:17.600
<v Speaker 18>manipulated by a number of intelligence organizations that if I

2:11:17.600 --> 2:11:19.200
<v Speaker 18>started listening to them right now, you would think I

2:11:19.240 --> 2:11:23.480
<v Speaker 18>was insane. Yeah, But the important thing about this period, right,

2:11:23.520 --> 2:11:26.840
<v Speaker 18>and this eventually works, it does destroy the left. But

2:11:27.440 --> 2:11:30.280
<v Speaker 18>the important thing about the structure of this in the

2:11:30.320 --> 2:11:34.640
<v Speaker 18>actual years of lead is that these are concrete groups, right.

2:11:34.680 --> 2:11:37.240
<v Speaker 18>They are shifting, they are flowing, people move between.

2:11:37.000 --> 2:11:41.040
<v Speaker 3>Them, but actual organized factions any a legitimate armed struggle,

2:11:41.120 --> 2:11:41.440
<v Speaker 3>I mean.

2:11:41.320 --> 2:11:44.480
<v Speaker 6>The Red Brigades are literally organized in a military fashion, right,

2:11:44.760 --> 2:11:47.000
<v Speaker 6>with like units and command structure.

2:11:47.440 --> 2:11:49.040
<v Speaker 18>But this is also true of like, this is also

2:11:49.040 --> 2:11:52.640
<v Speaker 18>true of the fascists, right, yeah, and it's also true

2:11:52.760 --> 2:11:56.480
<v Speaker 18>of group I mean, you know, like obviously like autonomia

2:11:56.560 --> 2:12:00.879
<v Speaker 18>and the sort of like anarchistic communist factions are looser,

2:12:00.920 --> 2:12:03.400
<v Speaker 18>but like they're still they still are like organized, and

2:12:03.400 --> 2:12:05.680
<v Speaker 18>they're rooted in a whole bunch of different kinds of struggles.

2:12:06.120 --> 2:12:11.280
<v Speaker 18>And the strategy of tension is being deliberately managed by

2:12:11.760 --> 2:12:15.240
<v Speaker 18>by Italian intelligence and by American intelligence, and by a

2:12:15.280 --> 2:12:19.160
<v Speaker 18>bunch of other sort of like state groups. And this

2:12:19.360 --> 2:12:22.040
<v Speaker 18>is not at all what we're dealing with right now,

2:12:22.160 --> 2:12:27.120
<v Speaker 18>not even close yet. The Charlie Kirk assassination is neither

2:12:27.320 --> 2:12:30.200
<v Speaker 18>a guy who was part of like some Marxist group,

2:12:30.560 --> 2:12:33.800
<v Speaker 18>nor was it a guy who's like a CIA agent

2:12:34.080 --> 2:12:34.920
<v Speaker 18>or something.

2:12:34.720 --> 2:12:37.240
<v Speaker 6>Right, like just a guy it's a guy who got.

2:12:38.200 --> 2:12:40.440
<v Speaker 3>Reddit gamer and discord political violence.

2:12:40.840 --> 2:12:43.400
<v Speaker 18>Yeah, these are these are these these are decentralized acts

2:12:43.400 --> 2:12:46.560
<v Speaker 18>being fueled by sort of radicalization. But they're not like

2:12:46.720 --> 2:12:48.560
<v Speaker 18>active intelligence operations.

2:12:48.840 --> 2:12:50.880
<v Speaker 3>I mean some of them aren't even fueled by radical

2:12:50.960 --> 2:12:53.360
<v Speaker 3>Like even even the word radicalization here is sometimes in

2:12:53.400 --> 2:12:57.440
<v Speaker 3>miss This one in particular is like not that really

2:12:57.920 --> 2:13:00.320
<v Speaker 3>a degree. It seems like a degree of like personal

2:13:00.800 --> 2:13:04.840
<v Speaker 3>motivation based on his relationship with his roommate as well

2:13:04.840 --> 2:13:09.760
<v Speaker 3>as this general like gen Z sort of nihilism that

2:13:09.840 --> 2:13:13.400
<v Speaker 3>allows you to do a pretty wild act like this,

2:13:13.920 --> 2:13:15.960
<v Speaker 3>I think specifically in this case, you know, it's like

2:13:16.400 --> 2:13:21.360
<v Speaker 3>existential violence manifesting an incredibly political action from someone who

2:13:21.360 --> 2:13:25.320
<v Speaker 3>otherwise isn't like overtly political. This guy's not a leftist.

2:13:26.000 --> 2:13:28.320
<v Speaker 3>It's definitely not a groper, as I've been trying to

2:13:28.440 --> 2:13:32.560
<v Speaker 3>argue for days now. Yeah, but I mean what he

2:13:32.640 --> 2:13:35.360
<v Speaker 3>did certainly is is political, even though he's not you know,

2:13:35.480 --> 2:13:39.040
<v Speaker 3>card carrying, you know, communist or you know, an anti imperialist,

2:13:39.240 --> 2:13:42.280
<v Speaker 3>like the guy who assassinated the to Israel embassy staffers

2:13:42.360 --> 2:13:44.600
<v Speaker 3>was right, which is kind of the only arguably like

2:13:44.760 --> 2:13:48.800
<v Speaker 3>left wing assassin we've like seen in the past, I

2:13:48.840 --> 2:13:51.800
<v Speaker 3>don't know, ten years in the United States, is the

2:13:51.960 --> 2:13:55.160
<v Speaker 3>guy who killed the two Israeli embassy staffers. Yeah, every

2:13:55.160 --> 2:13:58.920
<v Speaker 3>other assassin or attended assassin would not accurately be described

2:13:58.960 --> 2:14:03.120
<v Speaker 3>as like left wing in orientation, including someone like Luigi Mangioni,

2:14:03.440 --> 2:14:09.360
<v Speaker 3>who are very much not basically a teapot gray tribe libertarian. Yeah.

2:14:10.160 --> 2:14:10.400
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

2:14:10.600 --> 2:14:12.960
<v Speaker 18>And it's also worth noting that like from the state end,

2:14:13.040 --> 2:14:15.720
<v Speaker 18>these like this is not something that was like deliberately

2:14:15.760 --> 2:14:17.800
<v Speaker 18>unleashed by the state, except in the sense of like,

2:14:18.080 --> 2:14:19.040
<v Speaker 18>well some.

2:14:18.960 --> 2:14:22.720
<v Speaker 3>People would argue otherwise, Yeah, but wrong right there.

2:14:23.080 --> 2:14:25.760
<v Speaker 18>If that's the issue, you know, like like if like

2:14:25.840 --> 2:14:28.080
<v Speaker 18>the last time we saw something that you could argue

2:14:28.120 --> 2:14:31.160
<v Speaker 18>even sort of look like that is like there is

2:14:31.280 --> 2:14:33.880
<v Speaker 18>genuinely something kind of suspicious about the way that a

2:14:33.880 --> 2:14:36.240
<v Speaker 18>whole bunch of the most famous Black Lives Matter activists

2:14:36.280 --> 2:14:38.680
<v Speaker 18>who weren't the ones in the NGO suddenly turned up dead.

2:14:39.040 --> 2:14:42.520
<v Speaker 18>That's the closest thing, right, And that's not even a

2:14:42.720 --> 2:14:45.080
<v Speaker 18>like we know they did this, that's a like and

2:14:45.080 --> 2:14:47.360
<v Speaker 18>that was and that was over a decade ago, yeah, right,

2:14:47.360 --> 2:14:48.680
<v Speaker 18>that this is this is a long time ago, and

2:14:48.720 --> 2:14:51.160
<v Speaker 18>you know, and and I would argue it's important in

2:14:51.200 --> 2:14:53.680
<v Speaker 18>that it's part of the same series of uprisings that

2:14:53.800 --> 2:14:56.280
<v Speaker 18>like all of this fascist stuff is a response to right,

2:14:56.680 --> 2:14:59.200
<v Speaker 18>it's a response to Ferguson, it's response to twenty twenty.

2:14:59.720 --> 2:15:03.080
<v Speaker 18>But that structure, which is the structure that a lot

2:15:03.080 --> 2:15:05.560
<v Speaker 18>of people are using to analyze this of just purely

2:15:05.600 --> 2:15:10.280
<v Speaker 18>in American years of lead doesn't really work because we're

2:15:10.280 --> 2:15:15.680
<v Speaker 18>dealing with something way weirder, yeah, and way less concrete.

2:15:15.280 --> 2:15:19.040
<v Speaker 3>Which is why we're calling it something else, the years

2:15:19.040 --> 2:15:22.960
<v Speaker 3>of lead paint, because these people are just like because

2:15:23.000 --> 2:15:26.840
<v Speaker 3>it is not the result of this large scale like

2:15:27.000 --> 2:15:32.360
<v Speaker 3>deep state orchestration, nor these legitimate organized fashions. Everyone is

2:15:32.400 --> 2:15:35.040
<v Speaker 3>simply brain rotted. Yeah. Yeah.

2:15:35.640 --> 2:15:38.760
<v Speaker 6>To contrast, right in the twentieth century that the prevailing

2:15:38.880 --> 2:15:43.080
<v Speaker 6>concept of how the left would change the world was

2:15:43.120 --> 2:15:46.200
<v Speaker 6>through the violent capture of state institutions or in the

2:15:46.240 --> 2:15:49.760
<v Speaker 6>case of the anarchists, I guess less. So that you know,

2:15:49.840 --> 2:15:52.840
<v Speaker 6>if we look at like this communist ideal of revolution.

2:15:52.440 --> 2:15:54.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, how's that anarchist revolution going, buddy?

2:15:55.760 --> 2:15:58.680
<v Speaker 6>Well, I mean, these guys are thirty years after the

2:15:58.720 --> 2:16:03.200
<v Speaker 6>Spanish Revolution, rights some of them have seen anarchists hold

2:16:03.240 --> 2:16:06.280
<v Speaker 6>whole cities and hold off the country's army. It's not

2:16:06.360 --> 2:16:10.160
<v Speaker 6>out of the out of the realm of possibility for them.

2:16:10.320 --> 2:16:13.280
<v Speaker 6>That concept of revolution, I mean, it does exist. It

2:16:13.320 --> 2:16:16.160
<v Speaker 6>exists with people with like anime Twitter avatars still, but

2:16:16.400 --> 2:16:19.440
<v Speaker 6>like for the most part, that concept of revolution is

2:16:19.480 --> 2:16:23.360
<v Speaker 6>not that relevant in twenty first century leftist political organizing

2:16:23.640 --> 2:16:27.080
<v Speaker 6>and so like it cannot be the same because the

2:16:27.200 --> 2:16:30.400
<v Speaker 6>nature of the thing that that's the struggle, it's not

2:16:30.440 --> 2:16:31.280
<v Speaker 6>the same on the left.

2:16:31.640 --> 2:16:34.720
<v Speaker 3>There isn't even illegitimate left in the United States, like

2:16:35.080 --> 2:16:36.440
<v Speaker 3>in any meaningful sense.

2:16:36.840 --> 2:16:40.160
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I mean that there exists, Like I guess it's

2:16:40.200 --> 2:16:42.120
<v Speaker 6>like I don't want to call it incoherent, but like

2:16:42.200 --> 2:16:45.800
<v Speaker 6>a lot of the left exists. The people going hardest

2:16:45.800 --> 2:16:47.720
<v Speaker 6>on the left are going hardest on the internet. I guess,

2:16:47.720 --> 2:16:49.680
<v Speaker 6>this is what I want to say. And like, this

2:16:49.800 --> 2:16:52.400
<v Speaker 6>is nothing like post sixty eight Italy.

2:16:52.879 --> 2:16:55.440
<v Speaker 3>We've seen a nice, nice like resurgence, stuff like union

2:16:55.520 --> 2:16:59.400
<v Speaker 3>organizing and that's like the most realistic manifestation of the left.

2:16:59.200 --> 2:17:01.960
<v Speaker 6>But mutual aid organizing.

2:17:02.040 --> 2:17:04.520
<v Speaker 18>And I will also say we did have this band

2:17:04.520 --> 2:17:07.080
<v Speaker 18>from twenty eleven to twenty twenty was like a really

2:17:07.160 --> 2:17:12.560
<v Speaker 18>massive period of like really large scale street movement in

2:17:12.600 --> 2:17:18.600
<v Speaker 18>a way that really terrified these people, Like twenty fourteen

2:17:18.680 --> 2:17:24.480
<v Speaker 18>petificlarly Ferguson and twenty twenty like really truly rattled the

2:17:24.520 --> 2:17:29.560
<v Speaker 18>psychology of all of the people who who are like

2:17:29.640 --> 2:17:33.200
<v Speaker 18>currently running this country in that it demonstrated that like,

2:17:34.000 --> 2:17:35.279
<v Speaker 18>oh damn, there could.

2:17:35.080 --> 2:17:35.720
<v Speaker 10>Be a world.

2:17:35.879 --> 2:17:39.959
<v Speaker 18>We're like, we're not automatically the superior race and we're

2:17:40.000 --> 2:17:43.680
<v Speaker 18>not like treated like that because it's betting bullshit and

2:17:43.680 --> 2:17:47.680
<v Speaker 18>people were willing to fight for that. But also like, yeah, no,

2:17:47.760 --> 2:17:49.879
<v Speaker 18>like we don't have the kind of like organization or

2:17:49.879 --> 2:17:51.880
<v Speaker 18>logistical capacity that like any of these things had, and

2:17:51.920 --> 2:17:55.840
<v Speaker 18>it's not clear to me that you like, you won't

2:17:56.400 --> 2:17:58.680
<v Speaker 18>get things that look like that anymore.

2:17:59.040 --> 2:18:02.160
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, as much much is like the right wing YouTube

2:18:02.160 --> 2:18:05.600
<v Speaker 6>podcast Sphear wants to make it the case. First of all,

2:18:05.879 --> 2:18:08.880
<v Speaker 6>there is not like an organized revolutionary left in the US,

2:18:09.000 --> 2:18:12.119
<v Speaker 6>not as not a serious one. And secondly, like the

2:18:12.240 --> 2:18:17.560
<v Speaker 6>organized revolutionary left that existed in twentieth century relied on

2:18:17.720 --> 2:18:21.959
<v Speaker 6>a network that was international and that sometimes and not

2:18:22.080 --> 2:18:26.439
<v Speaker 6>always had its roots in Soviet I guess foreign policy

2:18:26.680 --> 2:18:28.520
<v Speaker 6>right that also does not like as much as a

2:18:28.600 --> 2:18:31.080
<v Speaker 6>YouTube world wished to be the case. China is not

2:18:32.160 --> 2:18:35.360
<v Speaker 6>sending people little yellow hard hats to go out in

2:18:35.400 --> 2:18:37.840
<v Speaker 6>Portland and get mad at the Feds being there. That

2:18:38.120 --> 2:18:41.600
<v Speaker 6>is not the case. Here's an advert for hard hats,

2:18:41.760 --> 2:18:44.120
<v Speaker 6>which you have to buy in your own because China

2:18:44.280 --> 2:18:45.280
<v Speaker 6>is not sending them to you.

2:18:55.959 --> 2:19:02.280
<v Speaker 3>We're back talking lead paint, King of lead paint, and

2:19:02.360 --> 2:19:05.600
<v Speaker 3>in some ways the conspiratorial elements of the years of lead.

2:19:06.120 --> 2:19:09.800
<v Speaker 3>There is no shortage of conspiratorial thought permeating across the

2:19:09.959 --> 2:19:13.400
<v Speaker 3>entire spectrum of American politics in ways that I've never

2:19:13.440 --> 2:19:17.000
<v Speaker 3>really seen at this scale before, which isn't saying much

2:19:17.040 --> 2:19:20.000
<v Speaker 3>because you know, I'm not, however, old James Is, but

2:19:20.160 --> 2:19:28.240
<v Speaker 3>I have been Gris who fuck me, but I have

2:19:28.440 --> 2:19:35.560
<v Speaker 3>been monitor industream was politics was a decent section of time,

2:19:37.160 --> 2:19:40.560
<v Speaker 3>mainly the past like seven years, the past like five

2:19:40.640 --> 2:19:41.240
<v Speaker 3>or so years.

2:19:41.240 --> 2:19:44.240
<v Speaker 6>Professionally, We're gonna have to watch another video because of

2:19:44.280 --> 2:19:46.840
<v Speaker 6>this whole second of the scarison. I have you known.

2:19:46.840 --> 2:19:49.920
<v Speaker 3>I'm actually multiple months later for my workplace harassment training.

2:19:51.120 --> 2:19:54.119
<v Speaker 6>I can see why, My god.

2:19:54.360 --> 2:19:58.080
<v Speaker 3>But it's it's it's it's pretty bad. Just the the

2:19:58.520 --> 2:20:01.280
<v Speaker 3>total rejection of reality in the separation of truth and

2:20:01.360 --> 2:20:05.199
<v Speaker 3>reality as coherent concepts. And we've seen this and some

2:20:05.280 --> 2:20:09.600
<v Speaker 3>of people's responses across the political spectrum to the release

2:20:09.800 --> 2:20:14.160
<v Speaker 3>of alleged text messages between the alleged shooter of Charlie

2:20:14.200 --> 2:20:17.800
<v Speaker 3>Kirk and their roommate, which was released in the indictment

2:20:17.920 --> 2:20:21.480
<v Speaker 3>that dropped on Monday, which shows the a lled shooter

2:20:21.560 --> 2:20:24.920
<v Speaker 3>explaining to their roommate what they did and like how

2:20:24.959 --> 2:20:28.800
<v Speaker 3>they did it and in part why we'll talk more

2:20:28.840 --> 2:20:31.600
<v Speaker 3>about this in Executive Disorder. These actual messages and like

2:20:31.640 --> 2:20:34.960
<v Speaker 3>what they contain, but people's reaction to them, both on

2:20:35.000 --> 2:20:39.840
<v Speaker 3>the left and right, have been pretty wild. Matt Walsh

2:20:40.040 --> 2:20:44.880
<v Speaker 3>is arguing that these messages were scripted between the roommate

2:20:44.959 --> 2:20:50.080
<v Speaker 3>and the shooter as a way to absolve the transgender roommate,

2:20:50.600 --> 2:20:54.119
<v Speaker 3>referring to this strategy as being influenced by Breaking Bad.

2:20:55.920 --> 2:21:01.080
<v Speaker 3>What a Breaking Bad is a television show, an American

2:21:01.080 --> 2:21:04.480
<v Speaker 3>television show released around two thousand and eight. I'm not

2:21:04.520 --> 2:21:05.760
<v Speaker 3>going to explain Breaking Bad.

2:21:06.000 --> 2:21:07.040
<v Speaker 6>Garretson do you remember that?

2:21:09.560 --> 2:21:13.160
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, you were like Matt Walsh's. Matt Walsh

2:21:13.240 --> 2:21:15.680
<v Speaker 3>is comparing this to to something that Walter White did

2:21:15.800 --> 2:21:19.000
<v Speaker 3>during during Breaking Bad, saying that this feels like a

2:21:19.000 --> 2:21:21.840
<v Speaker 3>strategy that these two people cooked up by watching too

2:21:21.879 --> 2:21:24.080
<v Speaker 3>much TV, which in fact just shows that it is

2:21:24.080 --> 2:21:26.720
<v Speaker 3>Matt Walsh who watches too much TV, by the fact

2:21:26.720 --> 2:21:28.959
<v Speaker 3>that this is the first thing he thinks of. But

2:21:29.240 --> 2:21:33.160
<v Speaker 3>it's not just Walsh. Communists, anti imperialists, people on the

2:21:33.240 --> 2:21:36.920
<v Speaker 3>left are spreading a completely unfounded assertion that this text

2:21:36.959 --> 2:21:40.480
<v Speaker 3>exchange between the roommate and the alleged shooter was quote

2:21:40.560 --> 2:21:44.600
<v Speaker 3>unquote obviously written by an FBI agent. Posts like this

2:21:44.760 --> 2:21:49.240
<v Speaker 3>are receiving tens of thousands of likes cross platforms. Yeah,

2:21:49.480 --> 2:21:52.720
<v Speaker 3>it's such a misunderstanding of how state craft works and

2:21:52.760 --> 2:21:57.000
<v Speaker 3>how like the legal system works that people communists really

2:21:57.040 --> 2:22:00.400
<v Speaker 3>think that this state of Utah could could orchest straight

2:22:00.920 --> 2:22:07.880
<v Speaker 3>and convincingly, convincingly orchestrate completely faked text exchanges Like that's

2:22:07.920 --> 2:22:11.560
<v Speaker 3>just simply not how our legal system works. And you

2:22:11.640 --> 2:22:15.640
<v Speaker 3>have people like Hassan spreading this sort of stuff. Yeah.

2:22:15.720 --> 2:22:18.440
<v Speaker 3>Quote half of the right thinks the messages are fake

2:22:18.520 --> 2:22:21.720
<v Speaker 3>because it doesn't implicate the transperson. The other half thinks

2:22:21.760 --> 2:22:23.840
<v Speaker 3>the shooter is a patsy because it was Israel that

2:22:23.920 --> 2:22:26.440
<v Speaker 3>killed Charlie Kirk. I will say the text messages are

2:22:26.440 --> 2:22:31.760
<v Speaker 3>too perfectly plugging holes for the investigators. Unnatural, Like come on,

2:22:32.480 --> 2:22:37.600
<v Speaker 3>come on, come on, guys. This is like I don't

2:22:37.600 --> 2:22:40.160
<v Speaker 3>even know what to like argue with, Like there's no

2:22:40.240 --> 2:22:43.480
<v Speaker 3>way to argue against people who believe in this in

2:22:43.520 --> 2:22:44.720
<v Speaker 3>any kind of real way.

2:22:45.040 --> 2:22:48.280
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, right, Like, how do you someone who has rejected facts? Like,

2:22:48.320 --> 2:22:49.720
<v Speaker 6>how do you bring them back?

2:22:50.280 --> 2:22:52.440
<v Speaker 3>They have to argue in court that the led shooter

2:22:52.480 --> 2:22:55.160
<v Speaker 3>actually did the shooting, right, That's what they're trying to establish. Yeah,

2:22:55.200 --> 2:22:58.480
<v Speaker 3>this is the evidence that will be agreed upon as

2:22:58.600 --> 2:23:02.039
<v Speaker 3>as evidence. To introduce the text messages in court, the

2:23:02.120 --> 2:23:05.600
<v Speaker 3>DA will have to prove their authenticity through chain of

2:23:05.640 --> 2:23:08.800
<v Speaker 3>custody and metadata. The reason why they were released now

2:23:08.879 --> 2:23:11.959
<v Speaker 3>is because they were included in the indictment laying out

2:23:11.959 --> 2:23:16.760
<v Speaker 3>the charges against Tyler Robinson. Robinson might use some odd words,

2:23:16.959 --> 2:23:19.680
<v Speaker 3>but he was raised Mormon and all this just tracks

2:23:19.760 --> 2:23:23.119
<v Speaker 3>at a face level to me. He's explaining his actions

2:23:23.120 --> 2:23:25.800
<v Speaker 3>to the person that he loves and instructs them to

2:23:25.920 --> 2:23:28.240
<v Speaker 3>delete the messages. He doesn't think that these are going

2:23:28.320 --> 2:23:30.400
<v Speaker 3>to come back to hurt him. And this isn't just

2:23:30.480 --> 2:23:33.640
<v Speaker 3>Betel's FBI saying this, This is the work of local

2:23:33.640 --> 2:23:36.560
<v Speaker 3>police and State of Utah police in the State of

2:23:36.680 --> 2:23:39.280
<v Speaker 3>Utah court, and this rejection of evidence, not what the

2:23:39.280 --> 2:23:43.039
<v Speaker 3>evidence argues, just the base evidence itself. Follows a week

2:23:43.120 --> 2:23:47.600
<v Speaker 3>of debate regarding this shooter's political orientation, which me and

2:23:47.680 --> 2:23:51.360
<v Speaker 3>Robert already discussed in an episode earlier this week. And

2:23:51.400 --> 2:23:55.520
<v Speaker 3>I understand people's intensity around this issue, especially framing it

2:23:55.560 --> 2:23:58.480
<v Speaker 3>in this years of led concept right of the right

2:23:58.640 --> 2:24:02.080
<v Speaker 3>using this to major crackdown on trans people and on

2:24:02.160 --> 2:24:05.320
<v Speaker 3>the left, which yeah, they're going to try to do.

2:24:05.920 --> 2:24:08.360
<v Speaker 3>But trying to argue at this point that he's a

2:24:08.400 --> 2:24:12.160
<v Speaker 3>groyper is just so faulty, and trying to argue that

2:24:12.400 --> 2:24:17.240
<v Speaker 3>these text messages are faked somehow, similarly, is just so

2:24:17.360 --> 2:24:21.000
<v Speaker 3>faulty and is so detached from how this situation actually

2:24:21.040 --> 2:24:24.520
<v Speaker 3>happened and how it fits in to the current dynamic

2:24:24.600 --> 2:24:27.800
<v Speaker 3>of political violence in the United States. On that topic,

2:24:28.040 --> 2:24:31.039
<v Speaker 3>a few days ago, Fox News is the Five was

2:24:31.080 --> 2:24:34.680
<v Speaker 3>debating if they needed more information to definitively say that

2:24:34.720 --> 2:24:39.000
<v Speaker 3>the shooter was on quote unquote the left. Greg Gutfield

2:24:39.320 --> 2:24:42.280
<v Speaker 3>went on about how high profile liberal and left wing

2:24:42.320 --> 2:24:46.959
<v Speaker 3>figures aren't being assassinated by people on the right and

2:24:47.080 --> 2:24:50.640
<v Speaker 3>wrote off the murder of Minnesota House Speaker Melissa Hartman

2:24:50.760 --> 2:24:51.640
<v Speaker 3>and her husband.

2:24:51.920 --> 2:24:55.440
<v Speaker 19>We don't need more information, really, yes, we don't need it.

2:24:55.680 --> 2:24:59.440
<v Speaker 19>What is interesting here is why is only this happening

2:24:59.480 --> 2:25:00.680
<v Speaker 19>on the left and not the right.

2:25:00.920 --> 2:25:02.200
<v Speaker 3>That's all we need to know about that.

2:25:02.240 --> 2:25:05.879
<v Speaker 18>There was absolutely no cos you want to.

2:25:05.840 --> 2:25:08.920
<v Speaker 19>Talk about Meliss Horseman. Did you know her name before

2:25:08.959 --> 2:25:11.440
<v Speaker 19>it happened? None of us did. None of us were

2:25:11.480 --> 2:25:14.720
<v Speaker 19>spending every single day talking about missus Hortman. I never

2:25:14.760 --> 2:25:16.800
<v Speaker 19>heard of her until after she died. The matter, And

2:25:18.280 --> 2:25:20.200
<v Speaker 19>don't play that bullshit with me.

2:25:20.560 --> 2:25:21.640
<v Speaker 7>You know what I'm talking.

2:25:21.760 --> 2:25:25.560
<v Speaker 19>What I'm saying is there was no demonization amplification about

2:25:25.560 --> 2:25:28.680
<v Speaker 19>that woman before she died. It was a specific crime

2:25:28.720 --> 2:25:30.119
<v Speaker 19>against her by somebody.

2:25:29.840 --> 2:25:31.160
<v Speaker 3>Who knew her, the same thing.

2:25:31.480 --> 2:25:33.280
<v Speaker 19>You can bring up, Joshua Piro, but then you will

2:25:33.280 --> 2:25:35.280
<v Speaker 19>not bring up, for example, that that was a pro

2:25:35.560 --> 2:25:36.680
<v Speaker 19>Palestine person.

2:25:37.040 --> 2:25:39.080
<v Speaker 7>So don't use your what about this.

2:25:39.320 --> 2:25:40.039
<v Speaker 3>The fact, the.

2:25:40.040 --> 2:25:44.360
<v Speaker 19>Fact of the matter is the both sides argument not

2:25:44.480 --> 2:25:45.360
<v Speaker 19>only doesn't fly.

2:25:46.200 --> 2:25:48.680
<v Speaker 3>We don't care. We don't care.

2:25:48.520 --> 2:25:52.400
<v Speaker 19>About your both sides argument that shit is dead. For

2:25:52.480 --> 2:25:55.039
<v Speaker 19>one thing, there is no cognitive dissonance on our.

2:25:54.959 --> 2:25:56.640
<v Speaker 2>Side on your side.

2:25:56.840 --> 2:26:01.280
<v Speaker 19>Your beliefs do not match reality, so you're coming up

2:26:01.280 --> 2:26:05.400
<v Speaker 19>with these rationalizations like what about this or what about that.

2:26:05.720 --> 2:26:09.280
<v Speaker 19>We're not doing that because we saw it happen. We

2:26:09.400 --> 2:26:14.160
<v Speaker 19>saw a young bright man assassinated, and we.

2:26:14.160 --> 2:26:16.000
<v Speaker 3>Know who did it. So if you look at like

2:26:16.080 --> 2:26:19.320
<v Speaker 3>left wing violence or violence targeting right wing figures, even

2:26:19.360 --> 2:26:21.360
<v Speaker 3>just like the past two years, right, there's the two

2:26:21.400 --> 2:26:25.480
<v Speaker 3>attempted Trump assassinations, which the right frames as left wing violence.

2:26:25.560 --> 2:26:29.120
<v Speaker 3>Though the first Trump shooter did not have left wing politics.

2:26:29.200 --> 2:26:32.280
<v Speaker 3>They had more of the psychological profile of a school

2:26:32.360 --> 2:26:35.720
<v Speaker 3>shooter who was looking to do something to get into

2:26:35.920 --> 2:26:39.640
<v Speaker 3>history books and came from a conservative upbringing. This person

2:26:39.680 --> 2:26:41.880
<v Speaker 3>was on a leftist right. But this is still targeting

2:26:41.959 --> 2:26:45.240
<v Speaker 3>a right wing figure, so it's framed in this same conversation.

2:26:45.879 --> 2:26:49.560
<v Speaker 3>The United Healthcare assassination similarly right, this wasn't a left

2:26:49.560 --> 2:26:53.200
<v Speaker 3>wing person who did this, but targeting a CEO on

2:26:53.320 --> 2:26:56.800
<v Speaker 3>a healthcare topic associates it with the left or with

2:26:56.840 --> 2:27:01.000
<v Speaker 3>progressive stances around healthcare. There's the arson against Jo Shapiro's home.

2:27:01.480 --> 2:27:03.640
<v Speaker 3>The guy who did this had a mixture of like

2:27:03.640 --> 2:27:08.360
<v Speaker 3>a pro Trump background but with pro Palestine motivations. The

2:27:08.400 --> 2:27:11.480
<v Speaker 3>most clear example would be the murder of two Israeli

2:27:11.480 --> 2:27:15.039
<v Speaker 3>Empacy staffers, and now the assassination of Charlie Kirk.

2:27:15.240 --> 2:27:17.480
<v Speaker 6>With the healthcare stuff, like we should probably point out

2:27:17.520 --> 2:27:21.200
<v Speaker 6>the Trump also ran on like medicine is too expensive, right,

2:27:21.760 --> 2:27:23.520
<v Speaker 6>it would cost too much to get the pills you

2:27:23.560 --> 2:27:25.640
<v Speaker 6>need to stay alive. Like that has been a cornerstone

2:27:25.680 --> 2:27:27.400
<v Speaker 6>of his platform too. It can be framed as like

2:27:27.400 --> 2:27:31.120
<v Speaker 6>a populist sentiment of populist stance, yeah, yeah, not necessarily

2:27:31.160 --> 2:27:32.040
<v Speaker 6>a leftist one.

2:27:32.080 --> 2:27:36.280
<v Speaker 3>So that's the political background that these people on the

2:27:36.320 --> 2:27:38.400
<v Speaker 3>right are like coming from right, Like that's how they

2:27:38.840 --> 2:27:41.720
<v Speaker 3>see see this that that's like this spike and left

2:27:41.800 --> 2:27:45.200
<v Speaker 3>being violence that they're seeing refers to this collection of acts.

2:27:45.680 --> 2:27:45.880
<v Speaker 7>Now.

2:27:46.000 --> 2:27:49.600
<v Speaker 3>For Media has reported that a few days after Charliekirk's assassination,

2:27:49.800 --> 2:27:53.240
<v Speaker 3>the Department of Justice removed from their website a National

2:27:53.280 --> 2:27:57.320
<v Speaker 3>Institute of Justice research study showing a white supremacist and

2:27:57.440 --> 2:28:01.600
<v Speaker 3>far right violence far outweighs any other type of terrorism

2:28:01.720 --> 2:28:05.520
<v Speaker 3>or domestic violent extremism. Quote. Since nineteen ninety, far right

2:28:05.520 --> 2:28:09.000
<v Speaker 3>extremists have committed far more ideologically motivated homicides than far

2:28:09.080 --> 2:28:13.560
<v Speaker 3>left or radical Islamist extremists, including two hundred and twenty

2:28:13.840 --> 2:28:18.480
<v Speaker 3>seven events that took more than five hundred and twenty lives.

2:28:18.680 --> 2:28:21.840
<v Speaker 3>In the same period, far left extremists committed forty two

2:28:21.920 --> 2:28:26.200
<v Speaker 3>ideologically motivated attacks that took seventy eight lives. So this

2:28:26.280 --> 2:28:30.240
<v Speaker 3>study has been scrubbed from the website to follow in

2:28:30.280 --> 2:28:33.920
<v Speaker 3>line with Trump and the right's general talking points about

2:28:33.920 --> 2:28:37.600
<v Speaker 3>this spike in left wing violence. I think in part,

2:28:38.200 --> 2:28:43.560
<v Speaker 3>the right would view explicit white supremacist, neo Nazi linked

2:28:43.640 --> 2:28:47.280
<v Speaker 3>violence as like separate from like, you know, conservative even

2:28:47.320 --> 2:28:50.520
<v Speaker 3>some like far right violence. They don't understand the linkage

2:28:50.800 --> 2:28:54.560
<v Speaker 3>from you know, explicit white supremacist mass shootings and you know,

2:28:54.600 --> 2:28:56.880
<v Speaker 3>make America great again. Right, That's something that they would

2:28:57.120 --> 2:28:59.800
<v Speaker 3>like reject as a legitimate coupling.

2:29:00.080 --> 2:29:02.600
<v Speaker 6>In Congress today, cash Betel that claimed to have no

2:29:02.640 --> 2:29:05.200
<v Speaker 6>idea who did, then Rufe was for example, correct and

2:29:05.440 --> 2:29:07.160
<v Speaker 6>like what he was about a.

2:29:07.080 --> 2:29:09.160
<v Speaker 3>Lot of them just aren't aware of this stuff. And

2:29:09.200 --> 2:29:12.040
<v Speaker 3>it's not just this National Institute Justice study. These findings

2:29:12.080 --> 2:29:16.199
<v Speaker 3>are incredibly consistent across multiple studies. The notably not left

2:29:16.240 --> 2:29:21.360
<v Speaker 3>wing Cato Institute found very similar results in their analysis

2:29:21.440 --> 2:29:24.880
<v Speaker 3>of six hundred and twenty politically motivated murders since nineteen

2:29:24.920 --> 2:29:28.880
<v Speaker 3>seventy five, excluding nine to eleven, most political violence comes

2:29:28.920 --> 2:29:31.440
<v Speaker 3>from the right. They counted three hundred and ninety one

2:29:31.520 --> 2:29:34.959
<v Speaker 3>murders from the right and sixty five from the left.

2:29:35.720 --> 2:29:37.640
<v Speaker 3>Can link that below to get a better look at

2:29:37.680 --> 2:29:39.920
<v Speaker 3>their actual methodology and what they count as right wing

2:29:40.000 --> 2:29:43.480
<v Speaker 3>what they count as left wing violence. Yeah, but these

2:29:43.640 --> 2:29:46.520
<v Speaker 3>stats simply don't matter to the right. In a lot

2:29:46.520 --> 2:29:50.040
<v Speaker 3>of cases, many average rightis will just reject these results altogether,

2:29:50.080 --> 2:29:52.720
<v Speaker 3>say that the study is faked or had faulty methodology.

2:29:53.000 --> 2:29:55.280
<v Speaker 3>But others might frame it as even if this data

2:29:55.360 --> 2:29:59.520
<v Speaker 3>is true, it doesn't match the current trend of escalating

2:29:59.680 --> 2:30:04.120
<v Speaker 3>left wing violence, specifically targeted left wing violence, not just

2:30:04.360 --> 2:30:07.720
<v Speaker 3>mass shootings. Here's another clip from Fox's The Five.

2:30:08.000 --> 2:30:11.160
<v Speaker 19>I understand why people are saying what about.

2:30:10.840 --> 2:30:11.680
<v Speaker 3>This and what about this?

2:30:11.879 --> 2:30:14.640
<v Speaker 19>Because if you have to face the underlying fact to this,

2:30:15.400 --> 2:30:17.760
<v Speaker 19>your life is going to fall apart, because you're going

2:30:17.840 --> 2:30:21.040
<v Speaker 19>to realize you're not the good guys. If you sat

2:30:21.120 --> 2:30:24.280
<v Speaker 19>around and you defended the mutilation of children, you're not

2:30:24.400 --> 2:30:27.560
<v Speaker 19>the good guys. If you sat six hundred seven hundred

2:30:27.600 --> 2:30:31.880
<v Speaker 19>cases of harassment against Republicans and you said, but what

2:30:31.920 --> 2:30:32.320
<v Speaker 19>about this?

2:30:32.360 --> 2:30:32.800
<v Speaker 3>What about this?

2:30:32.879 --> 2:30:35.200
<v Speaker 19>And then you see this murder after calling somebody a

2:30:35.240 --> 2:30:38.960
<v Speaker 19>fashion you fascist, you realize maybe I'm not the good guy.

2:30:39.160 --> 2:30:41.480
<v Speaker 19>That is a hell of a realization to deal with.

2:30:41.680 --> 2:30:44.000
<v Speaker 3>So therefore, therefore you.

2:30:44.080 --> 2:30:48.959
<v Speaker 19>Have to grasp at rationalizations. You don't have to do that, Jessica.

2:30:49.400 --> 2:30:51.520
<v Speaker 3>They do. I don't believe you're part of that group.

2:30:51.600 --> 2:30:53.000
<v Speaker 3>But why the hell do.

2:30:53.000 --> 2:30:55.320
<v Speaker 19>You have to mimic an echo that crap?

2:30:55.400 --> 2:30:59.200
<v Speaker 3>To us? He was a patsy. That guy was a patsy.

2:30:59.360 --> 2:31:03.120
<v Speaker 19>He was under the hypnot expel of a direct to

2:31:03.200 --> 2:31:07.200
<v Speaker 19>consumer nihilism, the trans cult. And you know that if

2:31:07.240 --> 2:31:10.720
<v Speaker 19>you can decide that biology is false, you can agree

2:31:11.040 --> 2:31:14.800
<v Speaker 19>that that murder is okay and that humanity is expendable.

2:31:15.000 --> 2:31:20.560
<v Speaker 19>How you cannot see that alone and see that for

2:31:20.680 --> 2:31:23.640
<v Speaker 19>what the evil it is without having to attach all

2:31:23.680 --> 2:31:25.520
<v Speaker 19>of these other things is beyond me.

2:31:26.360 --> 2:31:30.160
<v Speaker 6>His explicit claim that we should just like flag is

2:31:30.200 --> 2:31:33.600
<v Speaker 6>that it's not. He's not necessarily talking about leftists as

2:31:33.640 --> 2:31:36.800
<v Speaker 6>a whole. He's specifically talking about people who accept the

2:31:36.840 --> 2:31:40.840
<v Speaker 6>trans people are people being and like that the existence

2:31:40.879 --> 2:31:44.280
<v Speaker 6>of trans people leads to this nihilism. I guess, well, yeah.

2:31:44.280 --> 2:31:46.560
<v Speaker 3>I mean they see the existent trans people as like

2:31:46.760 --> 2:31:49.680
<v Speaker 3>a result of this nihilist culture, right, Yeah, Well, he.

2:31:49.640 --> 2:31:51.840
<v Speaker 6>Seemed to put the cause all hour the other way though,

2:31:51.959 --> 2:31:55.360
<v Speaker 6>in that he seemed to suggest that the nihilism comes

2:31:55.400 --> 2:31:56.680
<v Speaker 6>from accepting trans people.

2:31:56.840 --> 2:32:00.960
<v Speaker 3>I guess I don't fully agree that that's how he's

2:32:00.959 --> 2:32:03.720
<v Speaker 3>saying it. I think they view it as it's both

2:32:03.800 --> 2:32:06.480
<v Speaker 3>causal but also a symptom. I think they play it

2:32:06.560 --> 2:32:10.480
<v Speaker 3>kind of both ways and showing how it's it's more

2:32:10.560 --> 2:32:14.240
<v Speaker 3>so just like the result of this like breakdown in

2:32:14.760 --> 2:32:18.600
<v Speaker 3>like a moral fabric, right, which is then breaking down

2:32:19.800 --> 2:32:21.480
<v Speaker 3>like notion of reality, which is right, like, you know,

2:32:21.720 --> 2:32:23.840
<v Speaker 3>transness is such an existential threat to the right wing

2:32:24.600 --> 2:32:28.879
<v Speaker 3>worldviewing like many senses. But that's another topic. I do

2:32:28.920 --> 2:32:33.560
<v Speaker 3>find it interesting how quick these people are just completely

2:32:33.600 --> 2:32:36.959
<v Speaker 3>discount right wing mass shootings, right. And I think one

2:32:37.040 --> 2:32:39.560
<v Speaker 3>key difference in talking about, you know, left wing violence

2:32:39.680 --> 2:32:41.680
<v Speaker 3>is right ring violence, it seems, and almost all their

2:32:41.680 --> 2:32:46.360
<v Speaker 3>examples here they're talking about assassinations targeted against specific people.

2:32:47.520 --> 2:32:51.720
<v Speaker 3>Most right wing violence in these like statistics from like

2:32:51.800 --> 2:32:55.439
<v Speaker 3>CATO and the National Institute of Justice, are are mass shootings,

2:32:55.640 --> 2:32:58.120
<v Speaker 3>right that the number of individual people might not be

2:32:58.200 --> 2:33:00.640
<v Speaker 3>that different, but the kill count or right wing and

2:33:00.680 --> 2:33:04.400
<v Speaker 3>specifically like white supremacist attacks are so much higher. I

2:33:04.440 --> 2:33:08.160
<v Speaker 3>don't think it's the actual numbers that matter to these people,

2:33:08.480 --> 2:33:12.760
<v Speaker 3>it's their proximity to being the recipient of such violence

2:33:12.800 --> 2:33:16.439
<v Speaker 3>that really freaks them out. For these commentators, the likelihood

2:33:16.480 --> 2:33:19.360
<v Speaker 3>of them being in a black church when a white

2:33:19.360 --> 2:33:23.440
<v Speaker 3>supremacist mass shooting happens is slimton'on right, Like, that's never

2:33:23.440 --> 2:33:26.240
<v Speaker 3>gonna happen to these people, But being the victim of

2:33:26.640 --> 2:33:30.800
<v Speaker 3>targeted violence against a high profile figure is to them,

2:33:30.840 --> 2:33:33.800
<v Speaker 3>it seems like an increasing possibility, and that really freaks

2:33:33.800 --> 2:33:37.600
<v Speaker 3>them out. Like obviously this type of attack directly affects

2:33:37.640 --> 2:33:39.600
<v Speaker 3>their political class in a way that a far right

2:33:39.600 --> 2:33:42.360
<v Speaker 3>mass shooting does not. I think that is influencing the

2:33:42.360 --> 2:33:44.600
<v Speaker 3>way that they're talking about this, you know, quote unquote

2:33:44.600 --> 2:33:47.520
<v Speaker 3>spike in left wing violence. We're gonna go on an

2:33:47.520 --> 2:33:50.519
<v Speaker 3>ad break and then return to talk about Jed Vance's

2:33:50.959 --> 2:33:54.520
<v Speaker 3>temporary takeover of the Charlie Kirk Show and how his

2:33:54.600 --> 2:34:08.640
<v Speaker 3>rhetoric is affecting this general debate on political violence. Okay,

2:34:08.680 --> 2:34:14.320
<v Speaker 3>we are back on Monday, September fifteenth, Vice President j.

2:34:14.560 --> 2:34:18.039
<v Speaker 3>D Vance hosted The Charlie Kirk Show from his office

2:34:18.120 --> 2:34:21.920
<v Speaker 3>in the White House Complex, the Vice President sitting down

2:34:22.000 --> 2:34:25.680
<v Speaker 3>hosting a private citizens radio talk show. The show's intro

2:34:25.879 --> 2:34:29.680
<v Speaker 3>has clips from Charlie's studio with signs that read big

2:34:29.720 --> 2:34:34.080
<v Speaker 3>Gov socks warning does not play well with liberals. To

2:34:34.160 --> 2:34:36.640
<v Speaker 3>introduce the show, Jade Vance says that, quote, we have

2:34:36.760 --> 2:34:40.040
<v Speaker 3>to talk about this incredibly destructive moment of left wing

2:34:40.080 --> 2:34:43.320
<v Speaker 3>extremism that has grown up over the last few years.

2:34:43.320 --> 2:34:45.400
<v Speaker 3>We're going to talk about how to dismantle that and

2:34:45.440 --> 2:34:49.360
<v Speaker 3>how to bring real unity unquote. His first guest was

2:34:49.520 --> 2:34:52.360
<v Speaker 3>Stephen Miller. Ben said he wanted to talk to Miller

2:34:52.400 --> 2:34:55.360
<v Speaker 3>about quote all the ways we're trying to figure out

2:34:55.480 --> 2:34:57.680
<v Speaker 3>how to prevent this festering violence that you can see

2:34:57.680 --> 2:35:01.160
<v Speaker 3>from the far left becoming even more and more mainstream.

2:35:01.440 --> 2:35:03.119
<v Speaker 7>You have the crazies on the far left.

2:35:03.160 --> 2:35:05.840
<v Speaker 13>You are saying, Oh, Stephen Miller and jd Vance, they're

2:35:05.879 --> 2:35:08.520
<v Speaker 13>going to go after constitutionally protected speech, and we're going

2:35:08.560 --> 2:35:13.720
<v Speaker 13>to go after the NGO network that fomens, facilitates, and

2:35:13.840 --> 2:35:18.280
<v Speaker 13>engages in violence that's not okay. Violence is not okay

2:35:18.320 --> 2:35:20.160
<v Speaker 13>in our system, and we want to make it less

2:35:20.240 --> 2:35:21.240
<v Speaker 13>likely that that happens.

2:35:21.560 --> 2:35:24.080
<v Speaker 7>Walk me through at a high level, like what you.

2:35:24.040 --> 2:35:26.720
<v Speaker 13>And I have been working on, what the whole administration

2:35:26.760 --> 2:35:28.959
<v Speaker 13>has been working on to try to make sure that

2:35:29.040 --> 2:35:31.480
<v Speaker 13>we don't reward and promote this craziness.

2:35:31.879 --> 2:35:34.040
<v Speaker 12>Yes, so it's an excellent question. I've said this before,

2:35:35.200 --> 2:35:39.080
<v Speaker 12>but there's repeating. The last message that Charlie sent me

2:35:40.280 --> 2:35:42.720
<v Speaker 12>was I think it was just the day before we

2:35:42.800 --> 2:35:45.480
<v Speaker 12>lost him, which is that we need to have an

2:35:45.560 --> 2:35:48.400
<v Speaker 12>organized strategy to go after the lefting organizations that are

2:35:48.400 --> 2:35:53.520
<v Speaker 12>promoting violence in this country. And I will write those

2:35:53.560 --> 2:35:55.199
<v Speaker 12>words onto my heart and I will carry them.

2:35:55.080 --> 2:35:58.920
<v Speaker 3>Out the NGO network. Yep.

2:35:59.320 --> 2:36:03.320
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, this has been a thing with them for a while.

2:36:03.480 --> 2:36:06.400
<v Speaker 3>Yes, there was supposed to be a series of executive

2:36:06.480 --> 2:36:10.840
<v Speaker 3>orders that were drafted earlier this year, specifically targeting Democrat

2:36:10.879 --> 2:36:15.160
<v Speaker 3>funding platforms like Act Blue and environmental NGOs, that it

2:36:15.200 --> 2:36:18.080
<v Speaker 3>was reported that Trump was about to sign, and then

2:36:18.240 --> 2:36:22.320
<v Speaker 3>they kind of disappeared. This was around like April to May,

2:36:22.920 --> 2:36:25.280
<v Speaker 3>and this has been something that they obviously have been

2:36:25.320 --> 2:36:29.040
<v Speaker 3>wanting to do but for one reason or another haven't

2:36:29.080 --> 2:36:33.360
<v Speaker 3>followed through on yet. But now are talking about this

2:36:33.480 --> 2:36:38.240
<v Speaker 3>as an impending policy that the Trump administration is going

2:36:38.320 --> 2:36:39.320
<v Speaker 3>to enact.

2:36:39.560 --> 2:36:42.119
<v Speaker 6>I think some of their fascination with NGOs comes from

2:36:42.120 --> 2:36:47.160
<v Speaker 6>the Trump administration's first term, when NGOs were very successful

2:36:47.160 --> 2:36:50.760
<v Speaker 6>in bringing suits that delayed or prevented some of the

2:36:50.800 --> 2:36:55.480
<v Speaker 6>policies that the mill of faction of the Trump administration

2:36:56.040 --> 2:36:57.400
<v Speaker 6>would have liked to implement.

2:36:57.840 --> 2:36:59.600
<v Speaker 18>Yeah, and then I think the other angle of this

2:36:59.720 --> 2:37:02.240
<v Speaker 18>is just pueriety, Semitism, mango with that. Partly when they're

2:37:02.280 --> 2:37:05.199
<v Speaker 18>saying NGOs, they mean NGOs, and partly when they're saying

2:37:05.360 --> 2:37:06.520
<v Speaker 18>NGOs they mean Jews.

2:37:07.480 --> 2:37:09.080
<v Speaker 3>And it's great.

2:37:09.360 --> 2:37:14.879
<v Speaker 6>It's very often this specific focus is on he s

2:37:15.000 --> 2:37:19.039
<v Speaker 6>right highest Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society. Who I mean, we

2:37:19.080 --> 2:37:20.920
<v Speaker 6>see this in the Tree of Life shooting for instance

2:37:20.920 --> 2:37:22.640
<v Speaker 6>in twenty eighteen. Right, this has been with us for

2:37:22.680 --> 2:37:23.640
<v Speaker 6>some time on the right.

2:37:24.400 --> 2:37:27.720
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to play another clip where they outline more

2:37:27.800 --> 2:37:30.800
<v Speaker 3>strategies for clamping down on left wing violence.

2:37:31.360 --> 2:37:33.880
<v Speaker 12>And we are going to channel all of the anger

2:37:34.000 --> 2:37:39.240
<v Speaker 12>that we have over the organized campaign that led to

2:37:39.280 --> 2:37:42.800
<v Speaker 12>this assassination to uproot and dismantle these terrorist networks.

2:37:42.800 --> 2:37:44.320
<v Speaker 7>So let me explain a bit what that means. So

2:37:46.080 --> 2:37:49.519
<v Speaker 7>thirty seconds, it'll be quick Stephen the organized.

2:37:49.160 --> 2:37:53.360
<v Speaker 12>Docs and campaigns, the organized riots, the organized street violence,

2:37:53.400 --> 2:37:58.359
<v Speaker 12>the organized campaigns of dehumanization, vilification, posting people's addresses, Combining

2:37:58.360 --> 2:38:01.400
<v Speaker 12>that with messaging, this design trying to trigger inside violence,

2:38:01.440 --> 2:38:04.640
<v Speaker 12>and the actual organized cells that carry out and facilitate

2:38:04.680 --> 2:38:05.120
<v Speaker 12>the violence.

2:38:05.120 --> 2:38:07.199
<v Speaker 3>It is a vast domestic terror movement.

2:38:07.640 --> 2:38:09.720
<v Speaker 12>But with the Goddess my witness, we are going to

2:38:09.840 --> 2:38:12.320
<v Speaker 12>use every resource we have at the Department of Justice,

2:38:12.320 --> 2:38:16.359
<v Speaker 12>Homeland Security, and throughout this government to identify, disrupt, dismantle,

2:38:16.400 --> 2:38:19.039
<v Speaker 12>and destroy these networks and make America safe again for

2:38:19.040 --> 2:38:21.080
<v Speaker 12>the American people. It will happen, and we will do

2:38:21.160 --> 2:38:22.040
<v Speaker 12>it in Charlie's name.

2:38:22.480 --> 2:38:26.280
<v Speaker 3>So in their discussion of taking down this big doxing network,

2:38:26.320 --> 2:38:32.879
<v Speaker 3>they also inadvertently and ironically describe the doxing campaign that

2:38:32.920 --> 2:38:35.880
<v Speaker 3>the right is currently doing at a far larger scale

2:38:36.240 --> 2:38:38.880
<v Speaker 3>and with way more institutional backing than any antif for

2:38:39.040 --> 2:38:42.840
<v Speaker 3>left being, doxing has looked like targeting people making posts

2:38:42.840 --> 2:38:46.400
<v Speaker 3>in support of Charlie Kirk's assassination or people making jokes

2:38:46.440 --> 2:38:49.560
<v Speaker 3>about Charlie Kirk in the wake of his assassination, with

2:38:49.680 --> 2:38:53.720
<v Speaker 3>a doxing website listing thousands of quote unquote Charlie's murderers,

2:38:54.280 --> 2:38:57.160
<v Speaker 3>which are actually just people who have made posts about

2:38:57.200 --> 2:39:00.120
<v Speaker 3>the death of Charlie Kirk. This is building off the

2:39:00.200 --> 2:39:04.920
<v Speaker 3>Canary Mission strategy used against pro Palestinian activists, which has

2:39:04.959 --> 2:39:08.440
<v Speaker 3>been adopted by the State Department for Immigration Enforcement and

2:39:08.560 --> 2:39:13.640
<v Speaker 3>judging visa applications. This is the actual, like organized state backed,

2:39:13.680 --> 2:39:18.160
<v Speaker 3>institutionally backed doxing campaign that exists right now in this country.

2:39:18.360 --> 2:39:22.520
<v Speaker 3>It's not your average torch Antifa chapter doing this at scale. Now,

2:39:22.520 --> 2:39:25.560
<v Speaker 3>it's the right with the mechanism of state encouraging them,

2:39:25.720 --> 2:39:29.440
<v Speaker 3>backing them, and tons of money being funneled into an

2:39:29.520 --> 2:39:34.920
<v Speaker 3>organized operation to actually impact state policy on who gets

2:39:34.920 --> 2:39:38.600
<v Speaker 3>allowed in the country. On that note, Mark Rubio has

2:39:38.640 --> 2:39:43.000
<v Speaker 3>talked about denying visa applications for people who celebrate the

2:39:43.040 --> 2:39:44.360
<v Speaker 3>death of Charlie Kirk.

2:39:44.560 --> 2:39:46.600
<v Speaker 20>We are not in the business of inviting people to

2:39:46.680 --> 2:39:49.880
<v Speaker 20>visit our country who are going to be involved in

2:39:50.000 --> 2:39:54.600
<v Speaker 20>negative and destructive behavior. Okay, so why should if I

2:39:54.680 --> 2:39:57.040
<v Speaker 20>invite someone? If we invite someone to visit the United

2:39:57.080 --> 2:39:59.959
<v Speaker 20>States of America as a student, as a tourist, has whatever,

2:40:00.680 --> 2:40:03.080
<v Speaker 20>then they have a different The standard they should be

2:40:03.080 --> 2:40:05.680
<v Speaker 20>held to is very high. We shouldn't be bringing people

2:40:05.680 --> 2:40:07.720
<v Speaker 20>into this country. We should not be giving visas to

2:40:07.760 --> 2:40:09.640
<v Speaker 20>people who are going to come to the United States

2:40:09.680 --> 2:40:13.280
<v Speaker 20>and do things like celebrate the murder, the execution, the

2:40:13.320 --> 2:40:16.240
<v Speaker 20>assassination of a political figure. We should not, And if

2:40:16.240 --> 2:40:18.879
<v Speaker 20>they're already here, we should be revoking their visa.

2:40:19.000 --> 2:40:21.080
<v Speaker 3>So now there's an organized campaign to not only try

2:40:21.120 --> 2:40:23.600
<v Speaker 3>to deport and revoke visas or deny visas to people

2:40:23.680 --> 2:40:26.840
<v Speaker 3>quote unquote celebrating the death of Charlie Kirk, but also

2:40:26.959 --> 2:40:31.120
<v Speaker 3>get citizens here fired from their jobs and disrupt their life.

2:40:31.280 --> 2:40:34.440
<v Speaker 3>Just two years ago, Elon Musk tweeted, quote, if you

2:40:34.520 --> 2:40:38.000
<v Speaker 3>were unfairly treated by your employer due to posting or

2:40:38.160 --> 2:40:41.840
<v Speaker 3>liking something on this platform Twitter, we will fund your

2:40:41.920 --> 2:40:48.080
<v Speaker 3>legal bill, no limit. Please let us know unquote. What's

2:40:48.200 --> 2:40:50.440
<v Speaker 3>different about the right's use of these tactics is the

2:40:50.520 --> 2:40:53.360
<v Speaker 3>merger of like the right wing non government organization like

2:40:53.400 --> 2:40:57.680
<v Speaker 3>Activist Apparatus with the ruling conservative government. Like the Dems

2:40:57.680 --> 2:41:00.440
<v Speaker 3>in the left have never done this before. There's never

2:41:00.440 --> 2:41:03.240
<v Speaker 3>been this coordination between the actual democratic establishment and like

2:41:03.280 --> 2:41:08.120
<v Speaker 3>the far left. That's never happened, Like Palestine crackdowns started

2:41:08.240 --> 2:41:12.640
<v Speaker 3>under Biden. Biden's DOJ prosecuted many twenty twenty George Floyd

2:41:13.040 --> 2:41:16.920
<v Speaker 3>uprising cases. Federal assistance in the domestic terrorists investigation into

2:41:16.920 --> 2:41:21.320
<v Speaker 3>Cop City started under Biden. As for quote unquote organized

2:41:21.400 --> 2:41:24.920
<v Speaker 3>riots and street violence. Right wing street violence has been

2:41:25.040 --> 2:41:29.160
<v Speaker 3>encouraged and coordinated with Trump and the Trump administration stand

2:41:29.200 --> 2:41:31.920
<v Speaker 3>back and stand by to stop the steal protests leading

2:41:31.959 --> 2:41:35.360
<v Speaker 3>to January sixth, which Trump played a large part in

2:41:35.480 --> 2:41:38.800
<v Speaker 3>making happen, and then Trump pardoned all the participants.

2:41:39.520 --> 2:41:41.959
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, it's it's pretty clear.

2:41:42.200 --> 2:41:45.120
<v Speaker 3>The mayor of Minneapolis taking a knee is not on

2:41:45.160 --> 2:41:49.200
<v Speaker 3>the same level as Trump pardoning all the January sixth

2:41:49.320 --> 2:41:54.160
<v Speaker 3>quote unquote insurrectionists. At the end of Vance's two hour

2:41:54.320 --> 2:41:58.400
<v Speaker 3>long episode, he reiterated on the topic of doxing and

2:41:58.640 --> 2:42:04.080
<v Speaker 3>harassment campaigns and political violence. Here's another clip.

2:42:04.360 --> 2:42:07.560
<v Speaker 13>I wrote a story in The Nation magazine about my

2:42:07.680 --> 2:42:10.920
<v Speaker 13>dear friend Charlie Kirk. Now The Nation is in a

2:42:11.120 --> 2:42:15.640
<v Speaker 13>fringe blog. It's a well funded, well respected magazine whose

2:42:15.680 --> 2:42:19.199
<v Speaker 13>publishing history goes back to the American Civil War.

2:42:20.320 --> 2:42:21.879
<v Speaker 7>George Soros's Open.

2:42:21.640 --> 2:42:26.080
<v Speaker 13>Society Foundation funds this magazine, as does the Ford Foundation

2:42:26.640 --> 2:42:30.360
<v Speaker 13>and many other wealthy titans of the American progressive movement.

2:42:31.360 --> 2:42:33.679
<v Speaker 7>The writer accuses Charlie.

2:42:33.280 --> 2:42:37.240
<v Speaker 13>Of saying, and I quote, black women do not have

2:42:37.400 --> 2:42:41.200
<v Speaker 13>brain processing power to be taken seriously. But if you

2:42:41.280 --> 2:42:44.520
<v Speaker 13>go and watch the clip, the very clip she links to,

2:42:44.680 --> 2:42:48.000
<v Speaker 13>you realize he never said anything like that. He never

2:42:48.200 --> 2:42:52.480
<v Speaker 13>uttered those words. He made an argument against affirmative action

2:42:52.760 --> 2:42:57.280
<v Speaker 13>as a policy, He criticized a specific Supreme Court justice

2:42:57.400 --> 2:43:01.000
<v Speaker 13>as an individual. He never said anything about black women

2:43:01.040 --> 2:43:04.080
<v Speaker 13>as a group. He made an argument for judging people

2:43:04.320 --> 2:43:08.199
<v Speaker 13>of all races and backgrounds by their own individual merits.

2:43:09.360 --> 2:43:12.920
<v Speaker 13>The very evidence she provides this hack of a writer

2:43:13.080 --> 2:43:16.080
<v Speaker 13>shows that she lied about a dead man, and yet

2:43:16.760 --> 2:43:20.960
<v Speaker 13>she wrote it, an esteemed magazine published it, it made

2:43:20.959 --> 2:43:25.320
<v Speaker 13>it through the editors, and of course liberal billionaires rewarded

2:43:25.959 --> 2:43:27.040
<v Speaker 13>that attack.

2:43:28.160 --> 2:43:29.119
<v Speaker 7>Now, of course, even.

2:43:28.920 --> 2:43:31.520
<v Speaker 13>If Charlie had uttered those words, it wouldn't mean that

2:43:31.560 --> 2:43:35.959
<v Speaker 13>he deserved his fate. But consider the level of propaganda

2:43:36.040 --> 2:43:40.200
<v Speaker 13>at work. Charlie was gunned down in broad daylight, and

2:43:40.280 --> 2:43:44.200
<v Speaker 13>well funded institutions of the left lied about what he

2:43:44.440 --> 2:43:49.800
<v Speaker 13>said so as to justify his murder. This is soulless

2:43:50.240 --> 2:43:53.600
<v Speaker 13>and evil. But I was struck not just by the

2:43:53.640 --> 2:43:57.000
<v Speaker 13>dishonesty of this smear, but by the glee over a

2:43:57.040 --> 2:44:02.840
<v Speaker 13>young husband's and young father's death quote, she says he

2:44:03.240 --> 2:44:10.320
<v Speaker 13>was an unrepentant racist, transphobe, homophobe, and misogynist. The Nation wrote,

2:44:10.640 --> 2:44:13.959
<v Speaker 13>who often wrapped his bigotry in Bible verses.

2:44:14.320 --> 2:44:16.520
<v Speaker 3>There's a lot to break down there.

2:44:16.720 --> 2:44:17.000
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

2:44:17.240 --> 2:44:20.840
<v Speaker 3>First of all, the president of the Nation, not the

2:44:21.000 --> 2:44:24.640
<v Speaker 3>country the magazine. The Nation magazine has stated that they,

2:44:24.640 --> 2:44:28.120
<v Speaker 3>in fact, do not receive money from George Soros or

2:44:28.200 --> 2:44:33.080
<v Speaker 3>the Open Society Foundation. Vance's gesturing two left wing billionaires

2:44:33.400 --> 2:44:38.800
<v Speaker 3>carries three parentheses around that term. Second of all, let's

2:44:38.800 --> 2:44:43.360
<v Speaker 3>play the actual clip of Charlie talking about brain processing power.

2:44:44.000 --> 2:44:48.120
<v Speaker 21>Joy Reid and Michelle Obama and Shila Jackson Lee and

2:44:48.200 --> 2:44:51.360
<v Speaker 21>Catangi Brown Jackson were affirmative action picks. We would have

2:44:51.360 --> 2:44:56.000
<v Speaker 21>been called theis. But now they're coming out and they're

2:44:56.080 --> 2:44:58.760
<v Speaker 21>saying it for us. They're coming out and they're saying,

2:44:59.520 --> 2:45:03.680
<v Speaker 21>I'm only here because affirmative action. Yeah, we know, you

2:45:03.760 --> 2:45:06.560
<v Speaker 21>do not have the brain processing power to otherwise be

2:45:06.800 --> 2:45:10.280
<v Speaker 21>taken really seriously. You had to go steal a white

2:45:10.280 --> 2:45:13.279
<v Speaker 21>person slot to go be taken somewhat seriously.

2:45:14.160 --> 2:45:15.920
<v Speaker 3>So he just happens to be talking about three black

2:45:15.920 --> 2:45:17.840
<v Speaker 3>women and state that they do not have the brain

2:45:17.879 --> 2:45:20.000
<v Speaker 3>processing power to do their jobs and that they stole

2:45:20.040 --> 2:45:22.520
<v Speaker 3>a white man's spot. Yet in the position they are

2:45:22.560 --> 2:45:26.520
<v Speaker 3>in now. An opinion writer for The Washington Post was

2:45:26.640 --> 2:45:29.760
<v Speaker 3>fired this week for sharing this quote on Twitter, which

2:45:29.840 --> 2:45:32.520
<v Speaker 3>replaced the names of the three women's talking about with

2:45:32.720 --> 2:45:33.760
<v Speaker 3>just black women.

2:45:34.680 --> 2:45:37.120
<v Speaker 6>Did she share it like in between quotation monks if

2:45:37.160 --> 2:45:38.240
<v Speaker 6>it was a direct quotation.

2:45:38.959 --> 2:45:41.160
<v Speaker 3>She did share it as if it was a direct quotation.

2:45:41.840 --> 2:45:46.080
<v Speaker 18>Okay, I see, so I'm going to read this from

2:45:46.120 --> 2:45:48.800
<v Speaker 18>the email that they sent this writer firing her. This

2:45:48.879 --> 2:45:53.160
<v Speaker 18>writer is a black woman. Among other requirements, the company

2:45:53.160 --> 2:45:56.879
<v Speaker 18>wide social media policy mandates that all employees social media

2:45:56.879 --> 2:46:00.280
<v Speaker 18>postings be respectful and prohibits postings that disparage people on

2:46:00.280 --> 2:46:04.040
<v Speaker 18>their race, gender, or other protected characteristics. The policy also

2:46:04.080 --> 2:46:06.800
<v Speaker 18>reminds employees that everything they post is reflective on the

2:46:06.800 --> 2:46:09.720
<v Speaker 18>company and should not affect the integrity of the post journalism.

2:46:10.120 --> 2:46:12.560
<v Speaker 18>You're posting some blue sky which identify you as a

2:46:12.600 --> 2:46:16.120
<v Speaker 18>post columnist about white men in response to the killing

2:46:16.120 --> 2:46:19.680
<v Speaker 18>of Charlie Kirk do not comply with our policy. For example,

2:46:19.720 --> 2:46:23.240
<v Speaker 18>you posted refusing to tear my clothes and smear ashes

2:46:23.240 --> 2:46:25.480
<v Speaker 18>on my face and performative morning for a white man

2:46:25.520 --> 2:46:28.320
<v Speaker 18>that espoused violence is not the same thing as violence.

2:46:28.400 --> 2:46:31.520
<v Speaker 18>And part of what keeps America violent is the insistence

2:46:31.720 --> 2:46:35.680
<v Speaker 18>that people perform care, empty goodness and absolution for white

2:46:35.720 --> 2:46:39.680
<v Speaker 18>men who espoused hatred and violence. So this is explicitly

2:46:39.800 --> 2:46:42.880
<v Speaker 18>a they think that reverse racism is real, and that's

2:46:42.920 --> 2:46:47.039
<v Speaker 18>saying that and talking about white people as a class

2:46:47.680 --> 2:46:50.760
<v Speaker 18>of people in the US that are responsible for things

2:46:50.879 --> 2:46:54.360
<v Speaker 18>is in fact racism. Is that is the argument that

2:46:54.440 --> 2:46:57.880
<v Speaker 18>the Post, the Washington Post is making in the email

2:46:57.920 --> 2:47:01.600
<v Speaker 18>where they fire her, which is like that River's racism shit,

2:47:01.920 --> 2:47:05.879
<v Speaker 18>even like three years ago was like a pretty fringe

2:47:05.959 --> 2:47:08.240
<v Speaker 18>right wing like like that was a not it was

2:47:08.280 --> 2:47:12.440
<v Speaker 18>originally like a Nazi thing, right And this is now

2:47:12.520 --> 2:47:15.960
<v Speaker 18>being used by like the Washington Post to fire their

2:47:16.000 --> 2:47:21.200
<v Speaker 18>own writers for writing really incredibly reasonable things about Charlie Kirk.

2:47:21.640 --> 2:47:26.119
<v Speaker 3>To close Charlie Kirk's episode and to close our episode,

2:47:26.800 --> 2:47:30.320
<v Speaker 3>jd Vance talked about before we can have any national unity,

2:47:30.440 --> 2:47:34.879
<v Speaker 3>we must, like Charlie, tell the truth. Unity.

2:47:35.879 --> 2:47:40.800
<v Speaker 13>Real unity can be found only after climbing the mountain

2:47:40.879 --> 2:47:44.520
<v Speaker 13>of truth. And there are difficult truths we must confront

2:47:44.680 --> 2:47:49.600
<v Speaker 13>in our country. One truth is that twenty four percent

2:47:50.080 --> 2:47:54.680
<v Speaker 13>of self described quote very liberals believe it is acceptable

2:47:55.000 --> 2:47:57.840
<v Speaker 13>to be happy about the death of a political opponent,

2:47:58.320 --> 2:48:02.480
<v Speaker 13>while only three percent of self described very conservatives agree.

2:48:02.520 --> 2:48:07.160
<v Speaker 13>Three percent is too many, of course. Another truth is

2:48:07.200 --> 2:48:11.320
<v Speaker 13>that twenty six percent of young liberals believe political violence

2:48:11.440 --> 2:48:15.840
<v Speaker 13>is sometimes justified, and only seven percent of young conservatives

2:48:15.840 --> 2:48:20.039
<v Speaker 13>say the same. Again, too high a number in a

2:48:20.080 --> 2:48:22.080
<v Speaker 13>country of three hundred and thirty million people. You can,

2:48:22.120 --> 2:48:25.440
<v Speaker 13>of course find one person of a given political persuasion

2:48:25.640 --> 2:48:29.279
<v Speaker 13>justifying this or that, or almost anything, but the data

2:48:30.280 --> 2:48:33.879
<v Speaker 13>is clear people on the left are much likelier to

2:48:33.959 --> 2:48:36.760
<v Speaker 13>defend and celebrate political violence.

2:48:36.840 --> 2:48:39.520
<v Speaker 7>This is not a both sides problem.

2:48:39.560 --> 2:48:42.480
<v Speaker 13>If both sides have a problem, one side has a

2:48:42.560 --> 2:48:46.359
<v Speaker 13>much bigger and malignant problem, and that is the truth.

2:48:46.080 --> 2:48:47.480
<v Speaker 7>We must be told.

2:48:48.800 --> 2:48:52.640
<v Speaker 3>So. These stats are from a recent you gov survey,

2:48:52.840 --> 2:48:55.360
<v Speaker 3>where twenty four percent of very liberals to say it's

2:48:55.360 --> 2:48:56.800
<v Speaker 3>okay to be happy with the murder of a political

2:48:56.800 --> 2:48:59.600
<v Speaker 3>opponent and twenty six percent of young liberals to say

2:48:59.640 --> 2:49:02.440
<v Speaker 3>some times political bolence is justified for two seven percent

2:49:02.520 --> 2:49:06.800
<v Speaker 3>of young conservatives. This study also found that Democrats and

2:49:06.840 --> 2:49:10.840
<v Speaker 3>Republicans are more likely to say that political violence is

2:49:10.879 --> 2:49:15.320
<v Speaker 3>a big problem after attacks on members of their own party.

2:49:16.040 --> 2:49:18.520
<v Speaker 3>Of course, this polling is going to be heavily influenced

2:49:18.560 --> 2:49:21.200
<v Speaker 3>by whatever recent events just happened. That's going to change

2:49:21.200 --> 2:49:26.280
<v Speaker 3>people's stated opinion on these questions. After the assassination of

2:49:26.360 --> 2:49:29.160
<v Speaker 3>Charlie Kirk, sixty seven percent of Republicans said that political

2:49:29.200 --> 2:49:32.200
<v Speaker 3>violence is a very big problem. Fifty eight percent of

2:49:32.200 --> 2:49:35.760
<v Speaker 3>Democrats agreed. After the assassination of Melissa Hartman, fifty six

2:49:35.800 --> 2:49:39.000
<v Speaker 3>percent of Democrats said it's a very big problem, only

2:49:39.040 --> 2:49:43.279
<v Speaker 3>forty four percent of Republicans agreed. After the assassination attempt

2:49:43.320 --> 2:49:46.320
<v Speaker 3>on Jos Shapiro, forty four percent of Democrats, thirty seven

2:49:46.360 --> 2:49:47.760
<v Speaker 3>percent of Republicans.

2:49:47.800 --> 2:49:50.920
<v Speaker 6>Wait, just Shapiro wasn't assassinated, right, they tried to ban

2:49:51.000 --> 2:49:51.360
<v Speaker 6>his houseing.

2:49:51.440 --> 2:49:53.279
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they're counting that an attempted assassination.

2:49:53.440 --> 2:49:53.840
<v Speaker 6>Oh, okay.

2:49:53.959 --> 2:49:54.119
<v Speaker 4>See.

2:49:54.240 --> 2:49:59.160
<v Speaker 3>After the attended assassination on Donald Trump, fifty one percent

2:49:59.240 --> 2:50:01.680
<v Speaker 3>of Republicans said political balance is a very big problem

2:50:02.120 --> 2:50:05.920
<v Speaker 3>forty six percent of democrats, And after the attacks on

2:50:06.040 --> 2:50:09.160
<v Speaker 3>Paul Pelosi, fifty three percent of Democrats said political balance

2:50:09.160 --> 2:50:12.080
<v Speaker 3>is a very big problem compared to thirty one percent

2:50:12.280 --> 2:50:16.680
<v Speaker 3>of Republicans. These stats are very fluid and absolutely changed

2:50:16.720 --> 2:50:19.879
<v Speaker 3>depending on whatever current events were current at the time,

2:50:20.120 --> 2:50:22.840
<v Speaker 3>whatever just happened. We're going to talk about this more

2:50:22.840 --> 2:50:25.240
<v Speaker 3>in a bit, but I think the way that we

2:50:25.360 --> 2:50:30.120
<v Speaker 3>frame cheering on political violence also massively varies based on

2:50:30.120 --> 2:50:33.879
<v Speaker 3>what you count as political violence. Is a police killing

2:50:34.040 --> 2:50:37.320
<v Speaker 3>count as political violence? If so, that's going to majorly

2:50:37.400 --> 2:50:41.640
<v Speaker 3>affect the way we think about this question. Here's Vance

2:50:41.680 --> 2:50:46.560
<v Speaker 3>again talking about Trump's assassination and the pyramid that supports

2:50:46.680 --> 2:50:47.680
<v Speaker 3>political violence.

2:50:48.000 --> 2:50:51.199
<v Speaker 13>Now, any political movement, violent or not violent.

2:50:50.959 --> 2:50:52.080
<v Speaker 7>Is a collection of forces.

2:50:52.080 --> 2:50:56.439
<v Speaker 13>It's like a pyramid that stacks on top one support

2:50:56.600 --> 2:50:59.879
<v Speaker 13>on top of the other. That Peermid's got a foundation

2:51:00.240 --> 2:51:04.439
<v Speaker 13>of donors, of activists, of journalists, now social media influencers,

2:51:04.480 --> 2:51:07.800
<v Speaker 13>and of course of politicians. Not every member of that

2:51:07.879 --> 2:51:10.960
<v Speaker 13>pyramid would commit a murder. In fact, over ninety nine

2:51:10.959 --> 2:51:14.359
<v Speaker 13>percent I'm sure would not. But by celebrating that murder,

2:51:14.800 --> 2:51:19.400
<v Speaker 13>apologizing for it, and emphasizing not Charlie's innocence, but the

2:51:19.400 --> 2:51:22.840
<v Speaker 13>fact that he said things some didn't like, even to

2:51:22.840 --> 2:51:25.520
<v Speaker 13>the point of lying about what he actually said, many

2:51:25.640 --> 2:51:29.039
<v Speaker 13>of these people are creating an environment where things like

2:51:29.120 --> 2:51:31.240
<v Speaker 13>this are inevitably going to happen.

2:51:31.640 --> 2:51:34.120
<v Speaker 3>Benson goes on to talk about how people yelled at

2:51:34.200 --> 2:51:39.160
<v Speaker 3>him and his family when he visited Disneyland, and discusses

2:51:39.560 --> 2:51:42.160
<v Speaker 3>how after Charlie's death, one of his friends and a

2:51:42.200 --> 2:51:47.039
<v Speaker 3>senior White House staffer had left leaning operatives in his neighborhood,

2:51:47.080 --> 2:51:49.360
<v Speaker 3>passing out leaflets telling people what he looked like and

2:51:49.360 --> 2:51:52.560
<v Speaker 3>where he'd lived and quote, encouraging neighbors to harass him

2:51:52.640 --> 2:51:55.360
<v Speaker 3>or God forbid to do worse. While he was mourning

2:51:55.400 --> 2:51:57.440
<v Speaker 3>his dead friend, he and his wife had to worry

2:51:57.480 --> 2:52:00.600
<v Speaker 3>about the political terrorists drawing a big target on his home.

2:52:00.920 --> 2:52:04.320
<v Speaker 3>He shares with his own children. Are these people violent?

2:52:04.440 --> 2:52:07.120
<v Speaker 3>I hope not? But are they guilty of encouraging violence?

2:52:07.200 --> 2:52:09.560
<v Speaker 3>You damn well better believe it. We can thank God

2:52:09.600 --> 2:52:12.360
<v Speaker 3>that most Democrats don't share these attitudes, and I do.

2:52:12.720 --> 2:52:16.120
<v Speaker 3>While acknowledging that something has gone very wrong with a

2:52:16.200 --> 2:52:20.279
<v Speaker 3>lunatic fringe, a minority, but a growing and powerful minority

2:52:20.360 --> 2:52:24.600
<v Speaker 3>on the far left, Vansk goes on to state that

2:52:24.680 --> 2:52:28.279
<v Speaker 3>he seeks no unity with the far left.

2:52:29.040 --> 2:52:32.560
<v Speaker 13>There is no unity with people who scream at children

2:52:32.640 --> 2:52:34.080
<v Speaker 13>over their parents' politics.

2:52:34.320 --> 2:52:35.560
<v Speaker 7>There is no unity with.

2:52:35.600 --> 2:52:38.680
<v Speaker 13>Someone who lies about what Charlie Kirk said in order

2:52:38.720 --> 2:52:39.960
<v Speaker 13>to excuse his murder.

2:52:40.360 --> 2:52:40.879
<v Speaker 7>There is no.

2:52:41.000 --> 2:52:44.720
<v Speaker 13>Unity with someone who harasses an innocent family the day

2:52:44.840 --> 2:52:47.840
<v Speaker 13>after the father of that family lost a dear friend.

2:52:48.080 --> 2:52:51.480
<v Speaker 13>There is no unity with the people who celebrate Charlie

2:52:51.520 --> 2:52:52.640
<v Speaker 13>Kirk's assassination.

2:52:53.200 --> 2:52:56.199
<v Speaker 7>And there is no unity with the people who fund.

2:52:56.040 --> 2:52:59.760
<v Speaker 13>These articles, who pay the salaries of these terrorist sympathizers,

2:53:00.040 --> 2:53:03.720
<v Speaker 13>who argue that Charlie Kirk, a loving husband and father,

2:53:04.280 --> 2:53:08.360
<v Speaker 13>deserved a shot to the neck because he spoke words

2:53:08.840 --> 2:53:10.800
<v Speaker 13>with which they disagree.

2:53:11.000 --> 2:53:13.720
<v Speaker 7>Did you know that the George Soros.

2:53:13.360 --> 2:53:16.959
<v Speaker 13>Open Society Foundation and the Ford Foundation, the groups who

2:53:17.000 --> 2:53:21.080
<v Speaker 13>funded that disgusting article justifying Charlie's death, Do you know

2:53:21.080 --> 2:53:25.359
<v Speaker 13>they benefit from generous tax treatment. They are literally subsidized

2:53:25.400 --> 2:53:29.039
<v Speaker 13>by you and me, the American taxpayer. And how do

2:53:29.080 --> 2:53:32.520
<v Speaker 13>they reward us by setting fire to the house built

2:53:32.640 --> 2:53:35.480
<v Speaker 13>by the American family over two hundred and fifty years.

2:53:35.840 --> 2:53:41.680
<v Speaker 3>On September thirteenth, Fox and News Morning host Brian Kilmeade

2:53:42.120 --> 2:53:48.520
<v Speaker 3>endorsed youthanizing homeless people with quote involuntary lethal injection or something,

2:53:49.040 --> 2:53:50.599
<v Speaker 3>just kill them.

2:53:50.200 --> 2:53:53.400
<v Speaker 5>Billions of dollars some mental health and the homeless population.

2:53:53.680 --> 2:53:55.920
<v Speaker 3>A lot of them don't want to take the programs.

2:53:56.040 --> 2:53:57.680
<v Speaker 3>A lot of them don't want to get the help

2:53:57.680 --> 2:54:00.000
<v Speaker 3>that is necessary. You can't give him a choice.

2:54:00.400 --> 2:54:02.280
<v Speaker 2>Either you take the resources that we're going to.

2:54:02.320 --> 2:54:05.760
<v Speaker 3>Give you and or you decide that you got to

2:54:05.760 --> 2:54:07.400
<v Speaker 3>be locked up in jail. That's the way it has

2:54:07.400 --> 2:54:10.879
<v Speaker 3>to be now, or involuntary lethal injection or something. I

2:54:10.920 --> 2:54:12.400
<v Speaker 3>just kill them, Kim Brian. Why did it have to

2:54:12.400 --> 2:54:13.280
<v Speaker 3>get to this point right?

2:54:13.480 --> 2:54:15.040
<v Speaker 11>I would say this, we're not voting for the right

2:54:15.080 --> 2:54:16.480
<v Speaker 11>people in North Carolina.

2:54:16.200 --> 2:54:20.200
<v Speaker 3>Wake up. Just kill them. Geez, the Fox News host

2:54:20.560 --> 2:54:24.640
<v Speaker 3>advocating the killing of homeless people. And he didn't get

2:54:24.680 --> 2:54:27.800
<v Speaker 3>fired from this. He apologized a few days later, but

2:54:27.840 --> 2:54:31.280
<v Speaker 3>he's not getting fired from his job for this, openly

2:54:31.400 --> 2:54:36.000
<v Speaker 3>advocating the death of homeless people. Yeah, murder.

2:54:36.560 --> 2:54:38.400
<v Speaker 18>And I think it's worth noting whenever we're having a

2:54:38.440 --> 2:54:42.080
<v Speaker 18>discussion about political violence that two days after Charlie Kirk.

2:54:42.360 --> 2:54:46.680
<v Speaker 3>Was shot, Ice just killed a guy.

2:54:46.560 --> 2:54:48.959
<v Speaker 18>In Chicago who was driving away from their attempt to

2:54:48.959 --> 2:54:52.760
<v Speaker 18>detain him. He was driving away pretty slowly, and there's

2:54:52.920 --> 2:54:55.440
<v Speaker 18>video of it. Now, they pulled out their guns and

2:54:55.480 --> 2:54:59.320
<v Speaker 18>they killed him. And you know, all of these people

2:55:00.040 --> 2:55:04.000
<v Speaker 18>who are the people who ordered ice into this city, right,

2:55:04.080 --> 2:55:08.320
<v Speaker 18>who are directly responsible for the deaths of this man

2:55:08.360 --> 2:55:11.720
<v Speaker 18>who was also a single father. Actually well, no, Kirk

2:55:11.840 --> 2:55:15.760
<v Speaker 18>was not a single father, but this guy was and

2:55:15.959 --> 2:55:17.760
<v Speaker 18>was just murdered in cold blood by Ice.

2:55:18.360 --> 2:55:18.560
<v Speaker 3>Right.

2:55:19.240 --> 2:55:22.120
<v Speaker 18>This is not considered political violence by sort of either

2:55:22.160 --> 2:55:24.760
<v Speaker 18>liberals or conservatives, right, because they don't think the political

2:55:24.800 --> 2:55:28.000
<v Speaker 18>violence can be done by the state. And this is

2:55:28.040 --> 2:55:30.039
<v Speaker 18>also part of how you get to the situation now

2:55:30.080 --> 2:55:32.000
<v Speaker 18>where you can be like, well, the states should just

2:55:32.080 --> 2:55:36.040
<v Speaker 18>murder homeless people and that's not considered political violence because

2:55:36.040 --> 2:55:37.720
<v Speaker 18>it's the state doing it, and because they don't think

2:55:37.760 --> 2:55:38.760
<v Speaker 18>homeless people are people.

2:55:39.360 --> 2:55:42.720
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I mean to broaden that statement slightly or take

2:55:42.720 --> 2:55:44.320
<v Speaker 6>a different angle on it, right, Like there is a

2:55:44.360 --> 2:55:47.480
<v Speaker 6>complete bipartisan consensus that we should kill hundreds of people

2:55:47.480 --> 2:55:50.920
<v Speaker 6>a year acrossing our southern border because that supposedly serves

2:55:50.959 --> 2:55:53.320
<v Speaker 6>as a deterrent from other people coming, which it doesn't,

2:55:53.360 --> 2:55:56.199
<v Speaker 6>But that is not seen as political violence.

2:55:56.520 --> 2:55:59.200
<v Speaker 18>Now, they just murdered three more people on a boat

2:55:59.360 --> 2:56:01.600
<v Speaker 18>but leaving Venezuela a few days ago.

2:56:02.120 --> 2:56:06.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, as Evan's ended the Charlie Kirk Show episode.

2:56:07.400 --> 2:56:11.920
<v Speaker 3>He advocated that listeners find and call the employers of

2:56:12.080 --> 2:56:15.760
<v Speaker 3>people celebrating Charlie Kirk's death to join a TEPA USA

2:56:15.840 --> 2:56:18.279
<v Speaker 3>chapter or to run for office.

2:56:18.400 --> 2:56:21.440
<v Speaker 13>But I promise you that we will explore every option

2:56:21.640 --> 2:56:25.440
<v Speaker 13>to bring real unity to our country and stop those

2:56:25.440 --> 2:56:28.240
<v Speaker 13>who would kill their fellow Americans because.

2:56:27.920 --> 2:56:31.520
<v Speaker 7>They don't like what they say. But you have a

2:56:31.600 --> 2:56:33.640
<v Speaker 7>role too. Civil society, Charlie.

2:56:33.360 --> 2:56:37.520
<v Speaker 13>Understood this well, is not just something that flows from

2:56:37.840 --> 2:56:43.560
<v Speaker 13>the government. It flows from each and every one of us.

2:56:43.640 --> 2:56:47.320
<v Speaker 13>It flows from all of us. So when you see

2:56:47.360 --> 2:56:51.080
<v Speaker 13>someone celebrating Charlie's murder, call them out in hell, call

2:56:51.120 --> 2:56:54.280
<v Speaker 13>their employer. We don't believe in political violence, but we

2:56:54.360 --> 2:56:57.680
<v Speaker 13>do believe in civility, and there is no civility in

2:56:57.720 --> 2:56:59.959
<v Speaker 13>the celebration of political assassination.

2:57:01.040 --> 2:57:03.480
<v Speaker 6>The idea of the fusion of the state with civil

2:57:03.560 --> 2:57:07.080
<v Speaker 6>society is really notable there, like, that's not what civil

2:57:07.120 --> 2:57:12.359
<v Speaker 6>society is, right. That is a concept that is inherently totalitarian,

2:57:12.560 --> 2:57:15.600
<v Speaker 6>that civil society should flow downstream from the state and

2:57:15.640 --> 2:57:16.160
<v Speaker 6>the movement.

2:57:16.760 --> 2:57:19.560
<v Speaker 3>It's this fusion between the two that the right has

2:57:19.800 --> 2:57:23.039
<v Speaker 3>deployed so successfully. Yeah, which has increased their ability to

2:57:23.080 --> 2:57:23.920
<v Speaker 3>actually like rule.

2:57:24.080 --> 2:57:26.760
<v Speaker 6>Yeah. I mean that's that's what fatism does, right, like that,

2:57:26.760 --> 2:57:30.600
<v Speaker 6>that's yeah, Franco, that's Hitler, Like that is textbook.

2:57:30.720 --> 2:57:32.400
<v Speaker 3>That's like the point of the brown Shirts.

2:57:32.480 --> 2:57:34.680
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, or like the Women's movement in Spain, right to

2:57:34.680 --> 2:57:37.280
<v Speaker 6>give a more civil society example, they're not like, they're

2:57:37.320 --> 2:57:39.320
<v Speaker 6>not like a state police agency. There are a civil

2:57:39.400 --> 2:57:44.480
<v Speaker 6>society organization explicitly run by the state for its agenda.

2:57:45.120 --> 2:57:48.000
<v Speaker 3>So to return to the years of lead Paint idea

2:57:48.040 --> 2:57:52.599
<v Speaker 3>that opened this episode, what I'm observing right now across

2:57:52.800 --> 2:57:57.640
<v Speaker 3>the political ocean is this flattening of tactics. As I

2:57:57.680 --> 2:57:59.680
<v Speaker 3>discussed on the show before in the Blue One episodes,

2:57:59.840 --> 2:58:04.600
<v Speaker 3>the right trojan horst political conspiracism into acceptable political discourse,

2:58:04.879 --> 2:58:07.560
<v Speaker 3>which the left is now embracing liberals and the left.

2:58:07.600 --> 2:58:10.080
<v Speaker 3>And you can see this with people's reactions to the

2:58:10.160 --> 2:58:14.440
<v Speaker 3>Charter assassination and theories about the alleged shooter. So the

2:58:14.520 --> 2:58:18.480
<v Speaker 3>left is embracing conspiracy theories. Meanwhile the right is adopting

2:58:18.520 --> 2:58:24.360
<v Speaker 3>and accelerating political cancel culture style docsing. The key difference

2:58:24.400 --> 2:58:26.920
<v Speaker 3>here is on the right, these actions have state backing

2:58:26.959 --> 2:58:32.119
<v Speaker 3>and coordination or serve to maintain state power. For example,

2:58:32.440 --> 2:58:35.039
<v Speaker 3>there's types of political violence that get cheered on by

2:58:35.040 --> 2:58:38.520
<v Speaker 3>the right, such as deportations and the cheering on of

2:58:38.640 --> 2:58:43.520
<v Speaker 3>police after officer involved shootings. Back the blue keeps alignment

2:58:43.600 --> 2:58:46.960
<v Speaker 3>with state power. Same thing with cheering on or encouraging

2:58:47.320 --> 2:58:52.360
<v Speaker 3>violence against BLM protesters that supports the state structure and

2:58:52.480 --> 2:58:56.160
<v Speaker 3>advocating or celebrating the deaths of protesters gets viewed very

2:58:56.200 --> 2:58:59.360
<v Speaker 3>differently than the targeted assassinations that have happened in the

2:58:59.400 --> 2:59:02.880
<v Speaker 3>past year here and now the past few days, Trump

2:59:03.080 --> 2:59:08.360
<v Speaker 3>has discussed once again designating Antifa and other groups as

2:59:08.480 --> 2:59:13.920
<v Speaker 3>domestic terror organizations and bringing RICO charges against Code Pink

2:59:14.000 --> 2:59:16.720
<v Speaker 3>activists who screamed at him at a restaurant in DC

2:59:16.920 --> 2:59:17.760
<v Speaker 3>a few weeks ago.

2:59:18.480 --> 2:59:23.000
<v Speaker 9>Do you plan on designating Antifa finally a domestic terror organization?

2:59:24.840 --> 2:59:27.600
<v Speaker 11>Well, it's something I would do, yeah, if I have

2:59:27.680 --> 2:59:29.160
<v Speaker 11>support from the people back here.

2:59:29.200 --> 2:59:30.760
<v Speaker 3>I think would start with PAM.

2:59:30.520 --> 2:59:33.360
<v Speaker 11>I think, but I would if you give me, I

2:59:33.400 --> 2:59:34.640
<v Speaker 11>would do that one hundred percent.

2:59:34.720 --> 2:59:35.959
<v Speaker 3>And others also, by.

2:59:35.800 --> 2:59:38.720
<v Speaker 11>The way, But Antifa is terrible.

2:59:39.200 --> 2:59:42.280
<v Speaker 3>There are other groups, Yeah, there are other groups.

2:59:42.320 --> 2:59:44.360
<v Speaker 5>We have some pretty radical groups and they got away

2:59:44.400 --> 2:59:45.040
<v Speaker 5>with murder.

2:59:45.440 --> 2:59:47.640
<v Speaker 7>And also I've been speaking to.

2:59:47.560 --> 2:59:51.000
<v Speaker 11>The Attorney General about bringing RICO against some of the

2:59:51.000 --> 2:59:53.080
<v Speaker 11>people that you've been reading about that have been putting

2:59:53.120 --> 2:59:55.680
<v Speaker 11>up millions and millions of dollars for agitation.

2:59:56.440 --> 2:59:58.520
<v Speaker 3>These aren't protests, these are crimes.

2:59:58.520 --> 3:00:01.480
<v Speaker 11>What they're doing where they're throwing brit I said cars

3:00:01.560 --> 3:00:04.039
<v Speaker 11>of the of ice and mortar patrol.

3:00:04.080 --> 3:00:07.480
<v Speaker 18>And I want to close by. You know, we've seen

3:00:07.480 --> 3:00:09.480
<v Speaker 18>the sort of repercautions that people have had, not even

3:00:09.520 --> 3:00:13.120
<v Speaker 18>for like celebrating Charlie Kirk's death, but for like being like, wait,

3:00:13.160 --> 3:00:16.080
<v Speaker 18>this guy fucking sucks, and this whole you know, this

3:00:16.120 --> 3:00:19.440
<v Speaker 18>whole argument about civility. And I mean that, I mean

3:00:19.480 --> 3:00:21.600
<v Speaker 18>the Vice President of the United States is making right.

3:00:21.959 --> 3:00:25.760
<v Speaker 18>I want to read this quote from Matt Walsh as

3:00:25.760 --> 3:00:30.039
<v Speaker 18>we're recording. This is this is from Tuesday, September sixteenth.

3:00:30.080 --> 3:00:33.760
<v Speaker 18>This was left wing LGBT terrorism. There was never much doubt.

3:00:34.360 --> 3:00:36.560
<v Speaker 18>Now there is none at all. All left wing terror

3:00:36.600 --> 3:00:39.119
<v Speaker 18>networks must be crushed, All of the terrorists and their

3:00:39.120 --> 3:00:42.160
<v Speaker 18>helpers and funders must be arrested, prosecuted, and put to death.

3:00:43.000 --> 3:00:45.560
<v Speaker 18>So and there have been absolutely zero consequences for again

3:00:45.600 --> 3:00:49.560
<v Speaker 18>Matt Walsh calling for this whole network of people that

3:00:49.600 --> 3:00:54.760
<v Speaker 18>he imagines exists being executed. That's their endgame, right, It

3:00:54.800 --> 3:00:56.800
<v Speaker 18>is to destroy the concept of free speech in order

3:00:56.840 --> 3:00:59.560
<v Speaker 18>to preserve quote unquote free speech right, in order to

3:00:59.560 --> 3:01:02.600
<v Speaker 18>sort of unquote and political violence. They want to carry out,

3:01:02.959 --> 3:01:06.600
<v Speaker 18>you know, mass political killings of their opponents.

3:01:05.959 --> 3:01:09.440
<v Speaker 3>Coordinated at a state level with state resources. Yeah. Yeah,

3:01:09.480 --> 3:01:12.360
<v Speaker 3>And the state involvement makes it okay, That makes it

3:01:12.560 --> 3:01:17.600
<v Speaker 3>a moral action, not the actions of some like unhinged terrorist. Yeah.

3:01:17.680 --> 3:01:19.879
<v Speaker 18>And this is a really significant problem for the way

3:01:19.879 --> 3:01:22.600
<v Speaker 18>that we think about political violence because this is something

3:01:22.640 --> 3:01:25.400
<v Speaker 18>that's true for both liberals and conservatives that they think

3:01:25.440 --> 3:01:27.760
<v Speaker 18>that the state is the appropriate arbiter for this kind

3:01:27.760 --> 3:01:31.039
<v Speaker 18>of political violence, which is how Obama can do a

3:01:31.120 --> 3:01:33.760
<v Speaker 18>drone strike on a sixteen year old American citizen and

3:01:33.879 --> 3:01:37.760
<v Speaker 18>kill him in cold blood because Obama had political disagreements

3:01:37.800 --> 3:01:41.840
<v Speaker 18>with his father, right, and how this is treated as

3:01:41.840 --> 3:01:46.080
<v Speaker 18>something that's fine by a huge portion of liberals. And

3:01:46.120 --> 3:01:47.959
<v Speaker 18>this is one of the things that's going to allow

3:01:48.440 --> 3:01:50.600
<v Speaker 18>if these people are successful, and I don't know that

3:01:50.640 --> 3:01:54.280
<v Speaker 18>they will be, but if they can be, that's going

3:01:54.360 --> 3:01:54.680
<v Speaker 18>to be.

3:01:54.720 --> 3:01:59.800
<v Speaker 3>Why, Well, that is how we at the show understand

3:01:59.840 --> 3:02:03.279
<v Speaker 3>the years of lead Paint, or the current twenty twenty

3:02:03.320 --> 3:02:09.560
<v Speaker 3>five September era of the years of lead Paint. There's

3:02:09.760 --> 3:02:15.960
<v Speaker 3>phantoms everywhere, there's conspiracies everywhere and nowhere, and the specter

3:02:16.080 --> 3:02:38.840
<v Speaker 3>of political violence is around every corner. This is it

3:02:38.879 --> 3:02:42.640
<v Speaker 3>could happen here. Executive Disorder, our weekly newscast covering what's

3:02:42.640 --> 3:02:44.760
<v Speaker 3>happening in the White House, the crumbling world, and what

3:02:44.800 --> 3:02:47.320
<v Speaker 3>it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis. Today I'm joined

3:02:47.520 --> 3:02:51.080
<v Speaker 3>by James Stout, Miya Wong, and Robert Evans. Yep. This episode,

3:02:51.080 --> 3:02:56.280
<v Speaker 3>we're covering the week of September eleven to September eighteenth.

3:02:56.080 --> 3:02:58.800
<v Speaker 6>Normally a week in history when very little happens.

3:02:58.840 --> 3:03:01.240
<v Speaker 3>The most normal week of a American politics. Yeah.

3:03:01.280 --> 3:03:06.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Traditionally, nothing around the first third of September's days

3:03:06.080 --> 3:03:08.080
<v Speaker 2>as ever mattered in American history.

3:03:08.440 --> 3:03:11.360
<v Speaker 3>We should schedule our calendar just to block out this

3:03:11.440 --> 3:03:14.000
<v Speaker 3>whole section of the year each time.

3:03:14.280 --> 3:03:16.800
<v Speaker 2>I already have it written down in Mike calendar as

3:03:16.920 --> 3:03:21.560
<v Speaker 2>the week to forget, so I just spend it drinking.

3:03:22.160 --> 3:03:24.720
<v Speaker 3>Robert, do you want to introduce their first topic?

3:03:25.200 --> 3:03:28.000
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I mean, our first topic, as we talked about

3:03:28.080 --> 3:03:31.480
<v Speaker 2>last week, is the fallout from the murder of Charlie Kirk,

3:03:31.959 --> 3:03:36.480
<v Speaker 2>particularly its impact on free speech and the pretext it's

3:03:36.520 --> 3:03:40.000
<v Speaker 2>being used for to justify a crackdown on the quote

3:03:40.080 --> 3:03:45.200
<v Speaker 2>unquote left different NGOs and other organizations that are being

3:03:45.280 --> 3:03:49.720
<v Speaker 2>accused of being part of a vast and let's say,

3:03:50.040 --> 3:03:54.920
<v Speaker 2>unlikely conspiracy to commit terrorism that has nothing to do

3:03:55.040 --> 3:03:59.800
<v Speaker 2>with what's actually been discovered about Tyler Robinson, Charlie Kirk's killer,

3:04:00.200 --> 3:04:03.160
<v Speaker 2>but nonetheless it's being used that way, And kind of

3:04:03.160 --> 3:04:04.840
<v Speaker 2>the first thing to probably talk about is what's come

3:04:04.879 --> 3:04:08.959
<v Speaker 2>out about Tyler Robinson's motivations in the time since we

3:04:09.040 --> 3:04:12.080
<v Speaker 2>recorded our last episode. Honestly, I was kind of surprised

3:04:12.160 --> 3:04:16.000
<v Speaker 2>Gare when we recorded on Friday. I had expected us

3:04:16.000 --> 3:04:19.879
<v Speaker 2>to need to do an update before Monday in order

3:04:19.920 --> 3:04:24.600
<v Speaker 2>to catch up. Really, there wasn't much that it came out.

3:04:24.879 --> 3:04:24.920
<v Speaker 21>No.

3:04:25.160 --> 3:04:27.879
<v Speaker 3>I did a brief update confirming that he was living

3:04:27.920 --> 3:04:30.400
<v Speaker 3>with a transperson, but that was really all we knew

3:04:30.400 --> 3:04:33.440
<v Speaker 3>at the time that could be confirmed. That was pretty

3:04:33.440 --> 3:04:37.080
<v Speaker 3>evergreen as we suspected it it might be, and I

3:04:37.120 --> 3:04:42.400
<v Speaker 3>will say, frankly, the motive still remains not entirely clear,

3:04:42.440 --> 3:04:45.800
<v Speaker 3>but we do have some more concrete details about his

3:04:46.320 --> 3:04:50.320
<v Speaker 3>online background. Yeah, and a few others, like ancillary pieces,

3:04:50.560 --> 3:04:53.960
<v Speaker 3>which is included in the charging document, as well as

3:04:54.240 --> 3:04:56.600
<v Speaker 3>reporting on his discord logs.

3:04:57.000 --> 3:05:00.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So I think we should talk first about the

3:05:00.240 --> 3:05:03.080
<v Speaker 2>whole trans roommate thing of it all, because obviously, first off,

3:05:04.000 --> 3:05:07.280
<v Speaker 2>this is one of the most massive reaches I've seen,

3:05:07.440 --> 3:05:10.080
<v Speaker 2>Like they're always desperate to have a trans connection anytime

3:05:10.120 --> 3:05:10.800
<v Speaker 2>there's a shooting.

3:05:11.080 --> 3:05:13.879
<v Speaker 3>They were trying to establish this literally like seconds after

3:05:13.920 --> 3:05:14.320
<v Speaker 3>it happened.

3:05:14.680 --> 3:05:16.800
<v Speaker 2>And that's been the case with like the last year

3:05:16.840 --> 3:05:19.200
<v Speaker 2>and a half or two worth of mass shootings. Yeah,

3:05:19.280 --> 3:05:20.920
<v Speaker 2>or at least a sizable number of them.

3:05:21.080 --> 3:05:23.200
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, that was a meme, right for why it's like

3:05:23.240 --> 3:05:26.360
<v Speaker 6>a four Chan thing to suggest that any mass shooter

3:05:26.520 --> 3:05:28.480
<v Speaker 6>was trans and now it's just become reality.

3:05:28.879 --> 3:05:31.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And in this case, the allegation started coming out

3:05:31.560 --> 3:05:34.959
<v Speaker 2>from the police that his roommate was transgender. This was

3:05:35.000 --> 3:05:38.000
<v Speaker 2>before the discord logs had leaked. So I want you

3:05:38.040 --> 3:05:41.120
<v Speaker 2>to talk a little bit. Gare you found the Reddit

3:05:41.480 --> 3:05:45.879
<v Speaker 2>profile of Tyler Robinson's roommate. Yeah, so first question is

3:05:46.240 --> 3:05:48.120
<v Speaker 2>do we know if they actually were trans and do

3:05:48.160 --> 3:05:49.520
<v Speaker 2>we know if they actually were in some sort of

3:05:49.520 --> 3:05:52.080
<v Speaker 2>a relationship. What is the actual evidence that exists to

3:05:52.120 --> 3:05:54.240
<v Speaker 2>suggest that based on what we have so far.

3:05:54.920 --> 3:05:58.680
<v Speaker 3>They did post about their transition on multiple subreddits and

3:05:58.959 --> 3:06:03.439
<v Speaker 3>public facing posts, and they referred to having a boyfriend

3:06:03.520 --> 3:06:07.039
<v Speaker 3>BF that was helping them cope with the results of

3:06:07.080 --> 3:06:10.080
<v Speaker 3>the twenty twenty four election. But that's really all we

3:06:10.160 --> 3:06:14.000
<v Speaker 3>can tell from this at the time of public Reddit

3:06:14.040 --> 3:06:18.720
<v Speaker 3>profile for the roommate of Tyler Robinson, who had again

3:06:18.760 --> 3:06:22.400
<v Speaker 3>some sort of romantic relationship with the like nitty gritty

3:06:22.440 --> 3:06:24.800
<v Speaker 3>you know, arc of their whole relationship is like not

3:06:24.959 --> 3:06:28.480
<v Speaker 3>explicitly clear, but certainly a pad a romantic relationship.

3:06:29.040 --> 3:06:32.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I want to make it clear, which should

3:06:32.000 --> 3:06:34.640
<v Speaker 2>be obvious to anyone who has like a third of

3:06:34.680 --> 3:06:37.400
<v Speaker 2>a brain cell to rub together against the inside of

3:06:37.440 --> 3:06:41.440
<v Speaker 2>their skull. There's not any evidence that this roommate was

3:06:41.480 --> 3:06:44.440
<v Speaker 2>tied in any way to the Tyler Robinson's crimes, and

3:06:44.480 --> 3:06:46.119
<v Speaker 2>in fact, the exit evidence this.

3:06:46.320 --> 3:06:49.040
<v Speaker 3>The state is arguing this that the roommate had no

3:06:49.200 --> 3:06:52.039
<v Speaker 3>prior knowledge, yes, and has been fully cooperative. That the

3:06:52.120 --> 3:06:53.279
<v Speaker 3>roommate is not involved.

3:06:53.400 --> 3:06:56.920
<v Speaker 2>Not only is fully cooperative, but turned Tyler in.

3:06:57.600 --> 3:07:01.200
<v Speaker 3>Like in part or produced evidence that was now used

3:07:01.200 --> 3:07:05.600
<v Speaker 3>in the Charging documentary. Tyler turned himself in with his

3:07:05.720 --> 3:07:10.440
<v Speaker 3>father like officially, but there was certainly conversations happening.

3:07:10.800 --> 3:07:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And it's one of those things you can come

3:07:13.040 --> 3:07:15.000
<v Speaker 2>down morally on that however you want. It's just a

3:07:15.040 --> 3:07:17.920
<v Speaker 2>matter of there's absolutely no evidence. As people like Matt

3:07:17.920 --> 3:07:21.600
<v Speaker 2>Walsherre saying that this is part of some grand LGBT conspiracy,

3:07:22.040 --> 3:07:25.000
<v Speaker 2>their roommates seemed horrified to have been and you know,

3:07:25.360 --> 3:07:30.000
<v Speaker 2>understandably terrified to have been potentially implicated in a massive act,

3:07:30.240 --> 3:07:34.760
<v Speaker 2>like massively famous active murder, right, Like that's a scary

3:07:34.840 --> 3:07:37.720
<v Speaker 2>thing to come to, like get a discord message realizing,

3:07:37.760 --> 3:07:41.280
<v Speaker 2>oh fuck now I'm potentially implicated in this. So I

3:07:41.320 --> 3:07:44.480
<v Speaker 2>do have some understanding for what a shocking moment that is,

3:07:44.600 --> 3:07:47.360
<v Speaker 2>Like it's hard to imagine, yeah, dealing with that in

3:07:47.400 --> 3:07:49.640
<v Speaker 2>any way, shape or form. That's just a wild thing

3:07:49.720 --> 3:07:51.480
<v Speaker 2>to have happened in the middle of your fucking day,

3:07:51.680 --> 3:07:53.920
<v Speaker 2>presumably while you're at work or some shit. This would

3:07:53.920 --> 3:07:56.000
<v Speaker 2>have been around noon, so I'm guessing they were on

3:07:56.160 --> 3:07:59.320
<v Speaker 2>the job when they got these messages. She's a horrible,

3:07:59.360 --> 3:08:00.520
<v Speaker 2>horrible thing to deal with.

3:08:00.840 --> 3:08:05.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, let's go over some of the text exchanges included

3:08:05.640 --> 3:08:08.400
<v Speaker 3>in the charging document. It's technically not an indictment because

3:08:08.400 --> 3:08:11.240
<v Speaker 3>they did not charge via grand jury. Yeah, it's a

3:08:11.400 --> 3:08:14.440
<v Speaker 3>placeholder for that. Yeah, but it's referred to as like

3:08:14.480 --> 3:08:18.720
<v Speaker 3>a charging information document that they included some text messages

3:08:18.959 --> 3:08:21.440
<v Speaker 3>because it was the clearest evidence to lay out to

3:08:21.600 --> 3:08:23.760
<v Speaker 3>charge them with the crime, though not the only evidence,

3:08:23.800 --> 3:08:27.480
<v Speaker 3>as we will soon discuss. And these textlogs are core

3:08:27.560 --> 3:08:31.280
<v Speaker 3>to like people like Walsh's current argument that the trans

3:08:31.400 --> 3:08:34.400
<v Speaker 3>roommate must have actually been involved because they think that

3:08:34.440 --> 3:08:36.760
<v Speaker 3>the messages that I'm going to read here we were

3:08:36.800 --> 3:08:40.000
<v Speaker 3>like scripted between the roommate and the shooter specifically to

3:08:40.080 --> 3:08:45.199
<v Speaker 3>exonerate the roommate, and that that's the conspiracy that people

3:08:45.240 --> 3:08:48.360
<v Speaker 3>like Walsh are spreading. Let's go over this section of

3:08:48.400 --> 3:08:52.480
<v Speaker 3>this document quote. The police interviewed Robinson's roommate, a biological

3:08:52.520 --> 3:08:55.080
<v Speaker 3>male who was involved in a metal relationship with Robinson.

3:08:55.080 --> 3:08:57.800
<v Speaker 3>The roommate told police that the roommate received messages from

3:08:57.879 --> 3:09:02.480
<v Speaker 3>Robinson about the shooting and provide those messages to police.

3:09:02.640 --> 3:09:04.600
<v Speaker 3>On September tenth, twenty twenty five, the roommate received a

3:09:04.600 --> 3:09:07.520
<v Speaker 3>text message from Robinson which said, drop what you are doing,

3:09:07.720 --> 3:09:10.880
<v Speaker 3>look under my keyboard. The roommate looked under the keyboard

3:09:10.920 --> 3:09:13.519
<v Speaker 3>and found a note that stated I had the opportunity

3:09:13.520 --> 3:09:16.199
<v Speaker 3>to take out Charlie Kirk and I'm going to take

3:09:16.240 --> 3:09:21.400
<v Speaker 3>it unquote. Police found a photograph of this note. The

3:09:21.480 --> 3:09:25.200
<v Speaker 3>following text exchange then took place. After reading the note,

3:09:25.240 --> 3:09:30.800
<v Speaker 3>the roommate responded, what with many question marks? You're joking, right, Robinson?

3:09:31.320 --> 3:09:34.240
<v Speaker 3>I am still okay, my love, but I am stuck

3:09:34.280 --> 3:09:37.160
<v Speaker 3>in orm for a little while longer yet, shouldn't be

3:09:37.280 --> 3:09:40.480
<v Speaker 3>long until I can come home. But I gotta grab

3:09:40.600 --> 3:09:43.400
<v Speaker 3>my rifle still. To be honest, I'd hoped to keep

3:09:43.440 --> 3:09:46.640
<v Speaker 3>this secret till I died of old age. I'm sorry

3:09:46.640 --> 3:09:49.760
<v Speaker 3>to involve you, roommate. You weren't the one who did

3:09:49.760 --> 3:09:55.320
<v Speaker 3>it right, many question marks, Robinson. I am sorry, roommate.

3:09:55.879 --> 3:09:59.880
<v Speaker 3>I thought they caught the person Robinson. No, they grabbed

3:10:00.120 --> 3:10:03.400
<v Speaker 3>some crazy old dude that interrogated someone in similar clothing.

3:10:04.040 --> 3:10:06.320
<v Speaker 3>I had planned to grab my rifle from my drop

3:10:06.320 --> 3:10:09.400
<v Speaker 3>point shortly after, but most of that side of town

3:10:09.480 --> 3:10:12.320
<v Speaker 3>got locked down. It's quiet almost enough to get out.

3:10:12.640 --> 3:10:17.360
<v Speaker 3>There's one vehicle lingering roommate, Why Robinson? Why did I

3:10:17.400 --> 3:10:22.560
<v Speaker 3>do it? Roommate, Yeah, Robinson, I had enough of his hatred.

3:10:22.800 --> 3:10:25.840
<v Speaker 3>Some hate can't be negotiated out. If I'm able to

3:10:25.840 --> 3:10:28.480
<v Speaker 3>grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence.

3:10:28.680 --> 3:10:31.160
<v Speaker 3>Going to attempt to retrieve it again. Hopefully they have

3:10:31.200 --> 3:10:34.360
<v Speaker 3>moved on. I haven't seen anything about them finding it. Roommate,

3:10:34.760 --> 3:10:37.520
<v Speaker 3>how long have you been planning this, Robinson? A bit

3:10:37.560 --> 3:10:40.320
<v Speaker 3>over a week. I believe I can get close to it,

3:10:40.360 --> 3:10:42.960
<v Speaker 3>but there's a squad car parked right by it. I

3:10:42.959 --> 3:10:45.440
<v Speaker 3>think they already swept that spot. But I don't want

3:10:45.440 --> 3:10:48.480
<v Speaker 3>to chance it, Robinson. I'm wishing i'd circle back and

3:10:48.480 --> 3:10:50.480
<v Speaker 3>grabbed it as soon as I got to my vehicle.

3:10:50.720 --> 3:10:52.600
<v Speaker 3>I'm worried what my old man would do if I

3:10:52.640 --> 3:10:56.120
<v Speaker 3>didn't bring back Grandpa's rifle. I don't know if it

3:10:56.160 --> 3:10:59.000
<v Speaker 3>had a serial number, but it wouldn't trace to me.

3:10:59.480 --> 3:11:01.680
<v Speaker 3>I worry about Prince. I had to leave it in

3:11:01.760 --> 3:11:04.959
<v Speaker 3>a bush where I changed outfits. I didn't have the

3:11:05.000 --> 3:11:08.360
<v Speaker 3>ability or time to bring it with I might have

3:11:08.480 --> 3:11:11.400
<v Speaker 3>to abandon it and hope they don't find Prince. How

3:11:11.480 --> 3:11:13.879
<v Speaker 3>the fuck will I explain losing it to my old man.

3:11:14.560 --> 3:11:17.400
<v Speaker 3>Only thing I left was the rifle wrapped in a towel.

3:11:17.920 --> 3:11:20.800
<v Speaker 3>Remember how I was engraving bullets. The fucking messages are

3:11:20.840 --> 3:11:24.120
<v Speaker 3>mostly a big meme. If I see notices bulje ooh

3:11:24.160 --> 3:11:26.840
<v Speaker 3>wu on Fox News, I might have a stroke. Got

3:11:26.920 --> 3:11:29.600
<v Speaker 3>it all right, I'm gonna have to leave it. That

3:11:29.640 --> 3:11:33.199
<v Speaker 3>really fucking sucks. Judging from today, I'd say Grandpa's gun

3:11:33.280 --> 3:11:36.920
<v Speaker 3>does just fine. IDK, I think that was a two

3:11:36.959 --> 3:11:42.160
<v Speaker 3>thousand dollars scope. Robinson, Delete this exchange, Robinson. My dad

3:11:42.200 --> 3:11:44.560
<v Speaker 3>wants photos of the rifle, he says. Grandpa wants to

3:11:44.600 --> 3:11:47.120
<v Speaker 3>know who has what. The FEDS released a photo of

3:11:47.160 --> 3:11:49.840
<v Speaker 3>the rifle and it is very unique. He's calling me

3:11:50.080 --> 3:11:54.440
<v Speaker 3>r n not answering, Robinson. Since Trump got into office,

3:11:54.480 --> 3:11:57.280
<v Speaker 3>my dad has been pretty diehard Mega. I'm going to

3:11:57.320 --> 3:12:00.520
<v Speaker 3>turn myself in Willingly. One of my neighbors here is

3:12:00.560 --> 3:12:03.560
<v Speaker 3>a deputy for the sheriff. You are all I worry about,

3:12:03.760 --> 3:12:09.280
<v Speaker 3>love roommate. I'm much more worried about you, Robinson. Don't

3:12:09.280 --> 3:12:11.640
<v Speaker 3>talk to the media. Please, don't take any interviews or

3:12:11.680 --> 3:12:14.760
<v Speaker 3>make any comments. If police ask you questions, ask for

3:12:14.800 --> 3:12:18.160
<v Speaker 3>a lawyer, and stay silent. That's the end of the exchange.

3:12:18.400 --> 3:12:22.800
<v Speaker 6>Yep, it seems like this person fairly wisely stopped engaging

3:12:22.959 --> 3:12:25.279
<v Speaker 6>with the Yeah.

3:12:25.040 --> 3:12:28.720
<v Speaker 2>There's not a good response to give to that.

3:12:29.280 --> 3:12:29.959
<v Speaker 6>No, that's not.

3:12:30.320 --> 3:12:34.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Discord Again, one of the one thing I would

3:12:34.680 --> 3:12:37.880
<v Speaker 2>hope this would bust is this has to have been

3:12:38.080 --> 3:12:42.080
<v Speaker 2>a professional hit man assassin of some sort, which is

3:12:42.080 --> 3:12:45.039
<v Speaker 2>a job that I mean, it technically exists, Like there

3:12:45.040 --> 3:12:47.560
<v Speaker 2>are guys who are for the fucking crypts of the Bloods,

3:12:47.640 --> 3:12:49.600
<v Speaker 2>or you could call them professional hitmen, and that they

3:12:49.680 --> 3:12:52.320
<v Speaker 2>kill people for money, but they're not like the people

3:12:52.360 --> 3:12:55.200
<v Speaker 2>you see in movies, Like they're guys who will walk

3:12:55.280 --> 3:12:57.440
<v Speaker 2>up with a thirty eight and gut shoot somebody and

3:12:57.520 --> 3:13:00.280
<v Speaker 2>run the fuck off, Like they're not We're not talking

3:13:00.360 --> 3:13:05.320
<v Speaker 2>about like smooth operators. Those people almost don't exist as

3:13:05.360 --> 3:13:08.680
<v Speaker 2>a profession, and certainly not is a standard thing in

3:13:08.720 --> 3:13:11.720
<v Speaker 2>the United States. And that that like the fact that

3:13:11.800 --> 3:13:15.640
<v Speaker 2>he was having this kind of conversation on Discord.

3:13:15.240 --> 3:13:16.880
<v Speaker 3>This is I believe, regular text.

3:13:16.959 --> 3:13:18.240
<v Speaker 2>So these are regular regular text.

3:13:18.280 --> 3:13:21.400
<v Speaker 6>This is straight up yeah sms, right, like yeah.

3:13:21.160 --> 3:13:24.640
<v Speaker 2>He's messaging this shit through unencrypted lines and left a

3:13:24.720 --> 3:13:28.080
<v Speaker 2>note under his keyboard and dropped the rifle in the woods,

3:13:28.560 --> 3:13:30.880
<v Speaker 2>Like this is all about what you'd expect from a

3:13:30.920 --> 3:13:34.280
<v Speaker 2>twenty two year old kid who's a reasonably good shot

3:13:34.320 --> 3:13:37.440
<v Speaker 2>with a rifle and had no real other skills. Like

3:13:37.840 --> 3:13:38.760
<v Speaker 2>it's what it looked like.

3:13:38.879 --> 3:13:41.560
<v Speaker 6>Yes, this doesn't even seem like someone who spent a

3:13:41.560 --> 3:13:45.600
<v Speaker 6>great deal of time planning, right, like learning about that.

3:13:45.879 --> 3:13:47.680
<v Speaker 3>They said they've been planning about it for about a week.

3:13:48.040 --> 3:13:51.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this lines up with what they said, right, like Nick, Yeah,

3:13:51.480 --> 3:13:54.760
<v Speaker 2>and they seem almost surprised. Yeah, I got this weird

3:13:54.840 --> 3:13:58.520
<v Speaker 2>feeling reading it, Like Tyler almost is shocked that they

3:13:58.560 --> 3:14:01.959
<v Speaker 2>did it, Like there's this sense of being pulled by history.

3:14:02.440 --> 3:14:05.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's seemingly confused by his own actions in a sense.

3:14:05.560 --> 3:14:07.760
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, like watching himself almost like.

3:14:07.959 --> 3:14:11.720
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and like I I scrite like one of the things.

3:14:11.720 --> 3:14:14.000
<v Speaker 2>It sounds like and this is a little unclear, but

3:14:14.080 --> 3:14:16.280
<v Speaker 2>it sounds like in terms of those memes winding up.

3:14:16.280 --> 3:14:19.480
<v Speaker 2>But he was doing that before, maybe even before he'd

3:14:19.480 --> 3:14:22.360
<v Speaker 2>ever planned to shoot Kirk. That's just like a thing

3:14:22.480 --> 3:14:24.760
<v Speaker 2>he did for shit for people.

3:14:24.800 --> 3:14:26.879
<v Speaker 3>People have pointed to that as being like, oh, well,

3:14:26.920 --> 3:14:29.440
<v Speaker 3>obviously the roommate knew something was up. If if the

3:14:29.520 --> 3:14:33.119
<v Speaker 3>roommate was aware that that Robinson was carving bullets. That's

3:14:33.240 --> 3:14:35.959
<v Speaker 3>first of all, that's not a crime. No, people just

3:14:36.000 --> 3:14:38.880
<v Speaker 3>do weird shit sometimes, especially if someone goes to the

3:14:39.000 --> 3:14:41.920
<v Speaker 3>range often maybe they're gonna fucking scribble on a bullet Like.

3:14:41.920 --> 3:14:45.720
<v Speaker 3>That's not indication of anything that's legitimately concerning.

3:14:45.720 --> 3:14:48.720
<v Speaker 2>Frankly, yeah, it's indication again that this guy was very

3:14:48.760 --> 3:14:50.959
<v Speaker 2>online in the gamer right.

3:14:50.560 --> 3:14:50.680
<v Speaker 5>Yea.

3:14:51.520 --> 3:14:52.119
<v Speaker 2>But that's it.

3:14:53.560 --> 3:14:57.400
<v Speaker 3>So it's not just people like Walsh who are casting

3:14:57.480 --> 3:15:01.160
<v Speaker 3>doubt on the authenticity of these messages. Plenty of liberals

3:15:01.160 --> 3:15:04.600
<v Speaker 3>and people on the left have taken to suspecting that

3:15:04.640 --> 3:15:07.840
<v Speaker 3>these could have been written by an quote unquote FBI

3:15:08.000 --> 3:15:13.080
<v Speaker 3>agent or law enforcement as fake evidence to frame the shooter.

3:15:14.160 --> 3:15:18.920
<v Speaker 3>And people have pointed towards some weird verbiage like calling

3:15:18.920 --> 3:15:23.760
<v Speaker 3>his dad his old man and referring to quote unquote

3:15:23.800 --> 3:15:28.720
<v Speaker 3>like law enforcement type language like interrogate and Yeah, to me,

3:15:29.480 --> 3:15:32.320
<v Speaker 3>this is not very confusing. He talks like this because

3:15:32.400 --> 3:15:35.480
<v Speaker 3>he's raised Mormon and plays a lot of tactical video

3:15:35.560 --> 3:15:39.879
<v Speaker 3>games thousands of hours I have. I have a Steam profile, huge,

3:15:40.040 --> 3:15:43.080
<v Speaker 3>huge gamer, and he might talk a little odd because

3:15:43.120 --> 3:15:45.240
<v Speaker 3>he just did a fucking crazy thing.

3:15:45.560 --> 3:15:49.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't even think it's that odd. It's nice people

3:15:49.240 --> 3:15:51.760
<v Speaker 2>call someone they're in love with, my love. That's a

3:15:51.800 --> 3:15:53.279
<v Speaker 2>thing that happens in the world.

3:15:53.400 --> 3:15:54.760
<v Speaker 7>Like that's not like a.

3:15:54.840 --> 3:15:57.160
<v Speaker 3>Very normal What are we doing here?

3:15:57.840 --> 3:16:02.040
<v Speaker 2>Why are we questioning this part of the Yeah?

3:16:02.080 --> 3:16:04.200
<v Speaker 3>But and again like these texts were handed over to

3:16:04.240 --> 3:16:09.040
<v Speaker 3>local police by Robinson's roommate. Why fake evidence that would

3:16:09.080 --> 3:16:12.440
<v Speaker 3>jeopardize the case when the police already have a lot

3:16:12.480 --> 3:16:17.320
<v Speaker 3>of other evidence, DNA ballistic evidence, the fun group discord

3:16:17.360 --> 3:16:20.240
<v Speaker 3>chat where he also admitted to the crime right before

3:16:20.280 --> 3:16:23.440
<v Speaker 3>he turned himself in. Like these tex slogs don't even

3:16:23.480 --> 3:16:25.959
<v Speaker 3>like make him out to be a crazy leftist. He

3:16:26.000 --> 3:16:29.879
<v Speaker 3>talks like very vaguely about Kirk, like spreading hatred. Yeah,

3:16:29.959 --> 3:16:33.440
<v Speaker 3>he says nothing about politics. And again, as we'll talk

3:16:33.440 --> 3:16:37.240
<v Speaker 3>about because there's some evidence here suggesting that both Tyler

3:16:37.280 --> 3:16:42.120
<v Speaker 3>and their roommate, like their politics were mixed from what

3:16:42.160 --> 3:16:44.800
<v Speaker 3>little we can glean about them, right or a very

3:16:44.840 --> 3:16:46.760
<v Speaker 3>minor part of their lives in a sense like.

3:16:46.760 --> 3:16:50.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they're not talking about redistribution of wealth, they're not

3:16:50.040 --> 3:16:51.520
<v Speaker 2>talking about overthrowing the gun.

3:16:51.640 --> 3:16:53.680
<v Speaker 3>Oh no, they're not talking about politics in that way.

3:16:54.040 --> 3:16:56.119
<v Speaker 3>This seems more like personal to him.

3:16:56.120 --> 3:16:58.680
<v Speaker 2>Yes, he's in love with a transperson and he didn't

3:16:58.720 --> 3:17:00.320
<v Speaker 2>like what Charlie Kirk said about Tree.

3:17:00.840 --> 3:17:03.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And like, if the government's going to fake messages,

3:17:04.080 --> 3:17:06.720
<v Speaker 3>why would they do so in a way that exonerates

3:17:06.760 --> 3:17:09.800
<v Speaker 3>the trans roommate the real ideological target here.

3:17:09.879 --> 3:17:12.320
<v Speaker 2>Especially, look at what the government is doing right now,

3:17:12.400 --> 3:17:15.360
<v Speaker 2>right they're going after quote unquote Antifa, They're going after

3:17:15.400 --> 3:17:18.320
<v Speaker 2>the Open Society Foundation, George Soros, all of these left

3:17:18.360 --> 3:17:22.200
<v Speaker 2>wing NGOs. If they were faking this, would he not

3:17:22.400 --> 3:17:26.280
<v Speaker 2>have referenced one of those organizations? Would there not be

3:17:26.320 --> 3:17:29.520
<v Speaker 2>a fucking black and red flag somewhere right there?

3:17:29.840 --> 3:17:32.080
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, Like it would be so easy. If you're going

3:17:32.120 --> 3:17:34.720
<v Speaker 6>to implicate someone, you could implicate in text messages really easily.

3:17:34.760 --> 3:17:37.879
<v Speaker 6>Like it's ridiculous to suggest that, yeah, the state did this.

3:17:38.280 --> 3:17:40.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, why would you fake that?

3:17:40.640 --> 3:17:42.160
<v Speaker 2>Why would you fake it that way?

3:17:42.440 --> 3:17:46.320
<v Speaker 3>Baffling, incomprehensible. These texts are not load bearing to this case.

3:17:47.520 --> 3:17:50.520
<v Speaker 3>There's plenty of other evidence. And this isn't the same

3:17:50.640 --> 3:17:53.680
<v Speaker 3>thing as like cops planting evidence or like a district

3:17:53.720 --> 3:17:57.320
<v Speaker 3>attorney making subjective claims about intent, Like you don't need

3:17:57.360 --> 3:18:00.000
<v Speaker 3>to overestimate state intelligence here.

3:18:00.120 --> 3:18:02.840
<v Speaker 2>No, we don't even need for what we have. There

3:18:02.920 --> 3:18:05.800
<v Speaker 2>was no need for them to have done anything at all,

3:18:05.920 --> 3:18:09.959
<v Speaker 2>because Robinson specifically notes that as soon as pictures of

3:18:10.000 --> 3:18:12.960
<v Speaker 2>the rifle were posted online by police, his dad fucking

3:18:13.000 --> 3:18:16.280
<v Speaker 2>calls family knew because it is a unique gun. It

3:18:16.400 --> 3:18:22.040
<v Speaker 2>is an antique mouser that was sportized and rebarreled, presumably

3:18:22.120 --> 3:18:25.960
<v Speaker 2>personally by his grandfather. Both his grandpa and his dad

3:18:26.000 --> 3:18:29.200
<v Speaker 2>seemed to have recognized it immediately. There was no getting

3:18:29.240 --> 3:18:31.080
<v Speaker 2>away with it once the rifle was found.

3:18:31.480 --> 3:18:34.960
<v Speaker 3>This is totally different from like the MS thirteen tattoo thing,

3:18:35.080 --> 3:18:40.240
<v Speaker 3>where the trumpetdministration argued for an interpretation of tattoos and

3:18:40.400 --> 3:18:44.400
<v Speaker 3>then printed out a picture with like very clearly photoshopped

3:18:44.480 --> 3:18:46.680
<v Speaker 3>letters to draw a parallel between what they think the

3:18:46.720 --> 3:18:49.920
<v Speaker 3>tattoos meant and with their interpretation of it as letters

3:18:49.920 --> 3:18:53.120
<v Speaker 3>and numbers, which trump in all of his genius, mistook

3:18:53.240 --> 3:18:56.080
<v Speaker 3>for being actual tattoos. And then they just ran with

3:18:56.160 --> 3:18:58.160
<v Speaker 3>it because no one has the capacity to tell the

3:18:58.200 --> 3:19:02.400
<v Speaker 3>president you were wrong. This is completely different than faking

3:19:02.800 --> 3:19:06.400
<v Speaker 3>all these text messages. There's metadata, there's cell phone records.

3:19:06.920 --> 3:19:10.480
<v Speaker 3>It's probably still on the roommate's own phone, like physical

3:19:10.600 --> 3:19:14.680
<v Speaker 3>a physical evidence, and like subjectively saying that you don't

3:19:14.720 --> 3:19:17.400
<v Speaker 3>know any gen z that talks like this, that's not

3:19:17.520 --> 3:19:21.080
<v Speaker 3>valid evidence. Twenty two year olds know how to use punctuation.

3:19:21.959 --> 3:19:25.040
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, let me tell you of someone who crades hundreds

3:19:25.080 --> 3:19:27.600
<v Speaker 6>of papers every year from people who are largely but

3:19:27.680 --> 3:19:31.119
<v Speaker 6>not all, between eighteen and twenty five. Yeah, young people

3:19:31.160 --> 3:19:33.680
<v Speaker 6>can use punctuation. This is not like some kind of

3:19:33.800 --> 3:19:37.080
<v Speaker 6>forensic fucking literary analysis required.

3:19:37.480 --> 3:19:42.119
<v Speaker 3>And the information obtained in these chat logs and through

3:19:42.120 --> 3:19:45.119
<v Speaker 3>interviews with his parents match reporting by Ken Klippenstein, who

3:19:45.160 --> 3:19:49.480
<v Speaker 3>got leaked messages from the shooter on discord, very very similar.

3:19:49.640 --> 3:19:52.760
<v Speaker 3>Like lots of libs and people on the left are

3:19:52.800 --> 3:19:54.959
<v Speaker 3>saying this is fake because they wanted the shooter to

3:19:55.040 --> 3:19:58.879
<v Speaker 3>be conservative and they think that these texts damage the

3:19:58.959 --> 3:20:00.720
<v Speaker 3>narrative that they have chosen. And I think that's why

3:20:00.720 --> 3:20:03.360
<v Speaker 3>we're seeing people react so strongly to this. It's not

3:20:03.400 --> 3:20:07.120
<v Speaker 3>about actually evaluating the evidence on like a base level, right,

3:20:07.160 --> 3:20:09.680
<v Speaker 3>Like this guy grew up in a conservative Mormon family.

3:20:09.840 --> 3:20:13.200
<v Speaker 3>His dad's pretty mega. Robinson figured out he was bisexual

3:20:13.240 --> 3:20:14.760
<v Speaker 3>and started to move a little bit to the left

3:20:14.800 --> 3:20:17.840
<v Speaker 3>on like gender and sexuality issues. And like and even

3:20:17.879 --> 3:20:20.280
<v Speaker 3>like a lot of gen Z straight guys kind of

3:20:20.280 --> 3:20:23.360
<v Speaker 3>have this political profile, right, they're like pro gun, but

3:20:23.440 --> 3:20:25.880
<v Speaker 3>their life revolves around like gaming discord and read it

3:20:25.959 --> 3:20:28.000
<v Speaker 3>more than like the political.

3:20:27.760 --> 3:20:31.280
<v Speaker 2>And they're probably often pro capitalist. They're just not bigoted

3:20:31.360 --> 3:20:35.080
<v Speaker 2>against queer people. Yeah, because that's not as common anymore.

3:20:35.600 --> 3:20:38.440
<v Speaker 3>These aren't political partisans. Yeah, they're not even on our

3:20:38.560 --> 3:20:42.520
<v Speaker 3>slash bread tube, Like, yeah, that's that's not what's happening.

3:20:42.640 --> 3:20:46.720
<v Speaker 3>He played, he played furry sex games on Steam when

3:20:46.720 --> 3:20:48.960
<v Speaker 3>he was younger. One of his Steam names was Donald

3:20:49.000 --> 3:20:51.000
<v Speaker 3>Trump because yeah, he's twenty two years old. Trump was

3:20:51.040 --> 3:20:52.760
<v Speaker 3>an Augurat when he was like thirteen or whatever, Like,

3:20:52.840 --> 3:20:58.800
<v Speaker 3>oh god, yeah.

3:20:54.320 --> 3:20:54.560
<v Speaker 7>It's.

3:20:56.480 --> 3:20:58.360
<v Speaker 2>We fucked the kids up so bad.

3:20:59.080 --> 3:21:01.520
<v Speaker 3>It's it's a large it's largely a political and like

3:21:01.600 --> 3:21:06.840
<v Speaker 3>this what he did is is existential violence manifesting a

3:21:06.840 --> 3:21:10.440
<v Speaker 3>political action from someone who isn't otherwise overtly political. Right,

3:21:10.440 --> 3:21:14.000
<v Speaker 3>because shooting Charlie Kirk incredibly political action, even if that's

3:21:14.040 --> 3:21:17.320
<v Speaker 3>not the way that that the shooter maybe conceived it.

3:21:18.200 --> 3:21:21.440
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, like this person happens. It happened across a queer

3:21:21.440 --> 3:21:24.040
<v Speaker 6>person who they are very fond of. Right, they have

3:21:24.160 --> 3:21:27.120
<v Speaker 6>queer people in their lives. That is not indicative of

3:21:27.160 --> 3:21:30.200
<v Speaker 6>any politics other than they have a queer person in

3:21:30.200 --> 3:21:30.720
<v Speaker 6>their life.

3:21:30.800 --> 3:21:33.840
<v Speaker 2>If this person stand the Soviet Union, we would fucking

3:21:33.920 --> 3:21:34.680
<v Speaker 2>know about.

3:21:34.440 --> 3:21:38.640
<v Speaker 3>It because they would be running with that.

3:21:38.920 --> 3:21:41.600
<v Speaker 6>They'd have found a most into gud used a mosin

3:21:41.680 --> 3:21:43.519
<v Speaker 6>for what. So they would have missed.

3:21:46.040 --> 3:21:48.280
<v Speaker 2>A little bit of Moses slander for you today to

3:21:48.320 --> 3:21:52.480
<v Speaker 2>break up the horrors. Yeah, speaking of crackdowns, crack down

3:21:52.560 --> 3:21:54.439
<v Speaker 2>on your wallet by buying.

3:21:54.160 --> 3:21:56.440
<v Speaker 3>These products and services.

3:21:56.600 --> 3:21:57.959
<v Speaker 6>Beautiful, lovely.

3:22:09.480 --> 3:22:10.240
<v Speaker 3>And we're back.

3:22:11.840 --> 3:22:17.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, First Amendment crackdown. Massive rhetoric coming out of Stephen

3:22:17.360 --> 3:22:21.360
<v Speaker 2>Miller and from Pam Bondi and basically every mouthpiece of

3:22:21.360 --> 3:22:26.040
<v Speaker 2>the administration about going after the left, about dismantling particularly

3:22:26.120 --> 3:22:29.600
<v Speaker 2>organizations like the Open Society Foundation, going after George Soros

3:22:29.600 --> 3:22:34.720
<v Speaker 2>and his son. There's talk about prosecuting people criminally and

3:22:34.800 --> 3:22:37.640
<v Speaker 2>using the death penalty even on folks who are quote

3:22:37.680 --> 3:22:41.680
<v Speaker 2>unquote funding terrorism, a term which has been so broadly

3:22:41.720 --> 3:22:45.800
<v Speaker 2>described by mouthpieces of the administration as to include potentially

3:22:46.120 --> 3:22:47.160
<v Speaker 2>just about anybody.

3:22:47.560 --> 3:22:53.160
<v Speaker 3>This could be like bail funds, environmental NGOs, legal support NGOs,

3:22:53.200 --> 3:22:55.640
<v Speaker 3>like it's really unclear at the exact form that this

3:22:55.720 --> 3:22:58.080
<v Speaker 3>is going to take. But this is stuff that the

3:22:58.080 --> 3:23:00.840
<v Speaker 3>administration has pined of a doing for a while.

3:23:01.320 --> 3:23:02.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it's unclear.

3:23:02.520 --> 3:23:02.680
<v Speaker 3>You know.

3:23:02.720 --> 3:23:05.000
<v Speaker 2>It's one of the big pieces of news that's happened

3:23:05.040 --> 3:23:07.520
<v Speaker 2>within twenty four hours of US recording this episode, which

3:23:07.560 --> 3:23:11.760
<v Speaker 2>we recorded on Thursday the eighteenth, is that Trump has

3:23:11.959 --> 3:23:16.560
<v Speaker 2>designated ANTIFAH a domestic terrorist organization. That he's said that

3:23:16.640 --> 3:23:19.240
<v Speaker 2>what I'm saying is he said that, he said up

3:23:20.920 --> 3:23:22.519
<v Speaker 2>words that he has said.

3:23:22.480 --> 3:23:25.480
<v Speaker 3>Words that he has said before, including it in twenty twenty.

3:23:25.760 --> 3:23:28.680
<v Speaker 2>For the letter of the law, for one thing, there's

3:23:28.720 --> 3:23:30.920
<v Speaker 2>a wild difference between what you can do legally to

3:23:31.040 --> 3:23:35.520
<v Speaker 2>an international foreign terrorist organization, yeah, and in domestic terrorist organization.

3:23:35.720 --> 3:23:36.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

3:23:36.040 --> 3:23:40.039
<v Speaker 2>Because of the First Amendment, you can't just declare legally,

3:23:40.440 --> 3:23:43.199
<v Speaker 2>in terms of what is written law, the president can't

3:23:43.240 --> 3:23:45.160
<v Speaker 2>just declare a group of people to be a domestic

3:23:45.240 --> 3:23:46.080
<v Speaker 2>terrorist organization.

3:23:46.240 --> 3:23:47.920
<v Speaker 3>It's usually an enhancement charge.

3:23:48.080 --> 3:23:50.720
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and then just go after people who have spoken

3:23:50.800 --> 3:23:54.680
<v Speaker 2>out or donated money to legal charities that are randomly

3:23:54.680 --> 3:23:57.080
<v Speaker 2>declared to be in support of that. That's not league,

3:23:57.120 --> 3:24:00.000
<v Speaker 2>which doesn't mean it won't happened. Let me be really clear, Yeah, Yeah,

3:24:00.120 --> 3:24:01.640
<v Speaker 2>but that's not what the law is about.

3:24:01.760 --> 3:24:03.480
<v Speaker 3>And they've tried to do that in Atlanta was stop

3:24:03.520 --> 3:24:05.960
<v Speaker 3>Crop City and the Lena Solidarity Fund and going after

3:24:06.080 --> 3:24:08.920
<v Speaker 3>the Bail Fund and people who had donated money to

3:24:09.040 --> 3:24:12.439
<v Speaker 3>like the Forest Defense Fund, and this Trump is similarly

3:24:12.440 --> 3:24:15.240
<v Speaker 3>actually to Atlanta. Is also talked about using RICO charges

3:24:15.280 --> 3:24:18.520
<v Speaker 3>to get people in trouble who are funding these quote

3:24:18.560 --> 3:24:25.119
<v Speaker 3>unquote domestic terror organizations. And on yeah, September seventeenth, Trump Truth,

3:24:25.959 --> 3:24:29.040
<v Speaker 3>I am pleased to inform our many USA patriots that

3:24:29.080 --> 3:24:33.880
<v Speaker 3>I'm designating Antifa, a sick, dangerous radical left disaster, as

3:24:33.959 --> 3:24:36.960
<v Speaker 3>a major terrorist organization. I will also be strongly recommending

3:24:36.959 --> 3:24:40.240
<v Speaker 3>that those funding Antifa be thoroughly investigated in accordance with

3:24:40.280 --> 3:24:42.840
<v Speaker 3>the highest legal standards and practices. Thank you for your

3:24:42.879 --> 3:24:44.840
<v Speaker 3>attention to this matter.

3:24:45.640 --> 3:24:47.840
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I mean for a use of word major, right,

3:24:47.879 --> 3:24:52.080
<v Speaker 6>which doesn't that's like there's a domestic terrorism is a

3:24:52.120 --> 3:24:56.000
<v Speaker 6>concept that's nebulus FTO, foreign terrorist organization is an extremely

3:24:56.080 --> 3:25:00.480
<v Speaker 6>clear legal definition. He didn't use either of those. Yeah,

3:25:00.480 --> 3:25:03.800
<v Speaker 6>this is a thing that like Ted Cruz, and I

3:25:03.800 --> 3:25:05.800
<v Speaker 6>think he enjoyed it. I'm sure there are other people

3:25:05.800 --> 3:25:08.520
<v Speaker 6>to vote, but Ted Cruz in before twenty twenty twenty nineteen,

3:25:09.120 --> 3:25:12.400
<v Speaker 6>tried to introduce a resolution in the Senate condemning Antifa

3:25:12.560 --> 3:25:14.200
<v Speaker 6>like this has been a thing.

3:25:14.760 --> 3:25:17.880
<v Speaker 3>Marjor Taylor Green introduced legislation which went nowhere or talked

3:25:17.879 --> 3:25:20.320
<v Speaker 3>about dilation. I don't even know if she actually introduced

3:25:20.360 --> 3:25:24.039
<v Speaker 3>it like this year about designating Antifa terrorist organization. It's

3:25:24.080 --> 3:25:25.879
<v Speaker 3>been it's been something like Andy, you know, has been

3:25:25.920 --> 3:25:26.960
<v Speaker 3>advocating for for years.

3:25:27.160 --> 3:25:29.680
<v Speaker 2>It's a really important point that they have attempted and

3:25:29.879 --> 3:25:33.279
<v Speaker 2>failed to do this numerous times because the law doesn't

3:25:33.400 --> 3:25:36.920
<v Speaker 2>let them. And this is something that if you have

3:25:37.040 --> 3:25:41.360
<v Speaker 2>been in the riot reporting on public shootings business as

3:25:41.400 --> 3:25:44.360
<v Speaker 2>long as I said christ one thing I can tell

3:25:44.400 --> 3:25:46.720
<v Speaker 2>you is that in the wake of something like this,

3:25:46.800 --> 3:25:48.240
<v Speaker 2>it was the same with christ Church and the immediate

3:25:48.320 --> 3:25:51.160
<v Speaker 2>wake of christ Church, there was this really shocking moment

3:25:51.160 --> 3:25:53.720
<v Speaker 2>where a bunch of conservative I talked to these people

3:25:53.720 --> 3:25:57.560
<v Speaker 2>because I published the art the defining article on that shooting. Yeah,

3:25:57.680 --> 3:26:00.360
<v Speaker 2>a shitload of conservative organizations came out and said, you

3:26:00.400 --> 3:26:03.840
<v Speaker 2>know what, maybe we've been wrong about demonizing Muslim immigrants.

3:26:03.920 --> 3:26:06.080
<v Speaker 2>Maybe like that was really fucked up and we should

3:26:06.240 --> 3:26:09.360
<v Speaker 2>Like those people were talking about that people who you

3:26:09.400 --> 3:26:12.400
<v Speaker 2>would not expect that now, they didn't keep talking that way.

3:26:12.440 --> 3:26:14.800
<v Speaker 2>They got to work pretty quick. But what you have

3:26:14.920 --> 3:26:18.840
<v Speaker 2>in a moment like this is there's a limited period

3:26:18.840 --> 3:26:23.560
<v Speaker 2>of time where people's shock and horror and surprise at

3:26:23.560 --> 3:26:29.760
<v Speaker 2>what has happened creates spaces of possibility for folks who

3:26:29.840 --> 3:26:32.760
<v Speaker 2>have an agenda and who have a clear plan for

3:26:32.800 --> 3:26:38.840
<v Speaker 2>what to push, to push the overton envelope in their direction. Right,

3:26:39.400 --> 3:26:42.080
<v Speaker 2>this is not a period of time that lasts forever,

3:26:42.640 --> 3:26:48.280
<v Speaker 2>and the folks who are largely orchestrating the conservative response

3:26:48.360 --> 3:26:51.560
<v Speaker 2>to Charlie Kirk's murder are aware of this, and they

3:26:51.560 --> 3:26:54.000
<v Speaker 2>are making the best use of this period of time

3:26:54.040 --> 3:26:56.920
<v Speaker 2>that they can get. Now, that doesn't mean the fact

3:26:56.959 --> 3:26:59.480
<v Speaker 2>that this is a limited period of time doesn't mean

3:26:59.520 --> 3:27:02.440
<v Speaker 2>there aren't law term consequences, doesn't mean that they can't

3:27:02.440 --> 3:27:06.240
<v Speaker 2>make significant progress on their plan to stifle free speech.

3:27:06.320 --> 3:27:09.080
<v Speaker 2>Doesn't mean we're not in massive danger. Because we are

3:27:09.120 --> 3:27:13.320
<v Speaker 2>in danger, folks. I'm not telling you we're not. I'm

3:27:13.360 --> 3:27:17.720
<v Speaker 2>telling you these spaces of possibility don't last forever, in

3:27:17.760 --> 3:27:20.520
<v Speaker 2>part because the public moves on, and in part because

3:27:20.600 --> 3:27:23.600
<v Speaker 2>there is always a backlash to the backlash, and you're

3:27:23.600 --> 3:27:24.760
<v Speaker 2>seeing pieces of that already.

3:27:25.040 --> 3:27:26.160
<v Speaker 3>We are seeing pieces of that.

3:27:26.600 --> 3:27:30.840
<v Speaker 2>Fucking Carl Rove, of all motherfucking people, wrote an article

3:27:30.879 --> 3:27:35.760
<v Speaker 2>about how the administration is unfairly blaming liberals and leftists

3:27:35.800 --> 3:27:39.040
<v Speaker 2>for the actions of an individual shooter. Tucker Carlson came

3:27:39.080 --> 3:27:41.440
<v Speaker 2>out and made a statement that like, if the government

3:27:41.520 --> 3:27:43.440
<v Speaker 2>is able to go after you for this, they'll come

3:27:43.480 --> 3:27:46.000
<v Speaker 2>after conservatives at some point. He's not wrong about I

3:27:46.040 --> 3:27:49.000
<v Speaker 2>don't credit him doing that because of a serious moral thing.

3:27:49.040 --> 3:27:51.400
<v Speaker 2>I credited him to be a relatively intelligent guy who

3:27:51.440 --> 3:27:53.160
<v Speaker 2>was like, no, no, no, if they're able to do

3:27:53.240 --> 3:27:56.280
<v Speaker 2>this to you know whatever, milktoast liberals, eventually it will

3:27:56.320 --> 3:27:57.520
<v Speaker 2>happen to me, right.

3:27:58.080 --> 3:28:01.000
<v Speaker 3>And specifically, like Pam Bondi is Turner General made some

3:28:01.040 --> 3:28:03.360
<v Speaker 3>statements a few days ago about them going after quote

3:28:03.400 --> 3:28:07.040
<v Speaker 3>unquote hate speech, yeah, which spawned a whole bunch of

3:28:07.080 --> 3:28:10.800
<v Speaker 3>conservative commentators Steven Krawdertucker Carlson, as well as Matt Walsh.

3:28:10.840 --> 3:28:12.440
<v Speaker 3>And under no circumstances do you have to hand up

3:28:12.440 --> 3:28:16.680
<v Speaker 3>to Matt Walsh. But this prompted them to be like, no, actually,

3:28:16.840 --> 3:28:19.840
<v Speaker 3>we don't believe in hate speech as a legitimate legal category.

3:28:19.879 --> 3:28:22.440
<v Speaker 3>There should be social consequences for people who celebrate the

3:28:22.480 --> 3:28:24.560
<v Speaker 3>murder of an innocent man, but there should not be

3:28:24.680 --> 3:28:27.359
<v Speaker 3>legal consequences for hate speech.

3:28:27.879 --> 3:28:28.080
<v Speaker 6>Right.

3:28:28.520 --> 3:28:31.200
<v Speaker 3>We're fine with the government helping us like dos you

3:28:31.600 --> 3:28:34.680
<v Speaker 3>and get you fired from your job, but prosecuting hate

3:28:34.680 --> 3:28:36.600
<v Speaker 3>speech as a category is something that we do not

3:28:36.920 --> 3:28:39.760
<v Speaker 3>agree with, and neither did Charlie Kirk. So there's been

3:28:39.760 --> 3:28:42.640
<v Speaker 3>like that small reaction, which then prompted Pambondi to be like, no,

3:28:42.840 --> 3:28:44.520
<v Speaker 3>when I say hate speech, what I really mean is

3:28:44.560 --> 3:28:47.839
<v Speaker 3>like threats and assignment of violence, and like, yeah, okay.

3:28:47.360 --> 3:28:50.400
<v Speaker 6>Fighting words, I think is a legal term, right, Like

3:28:50.440 --> 3:28:51.520
<v Speaker 6>incitements to violence.

3:28:51.640 --> 3:28:54.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And you know, there's some stuff that's always been

3:28:55.000 --> 3:28:59.000
<v Speaker 2>illegal and never been punished. For example, when conservatives I've

3:28:59.000 --> 3:29:01.560
<v Speaker 2>been dealing with this for years, threatened to kill and

3:29:01.680 --> 3:29:04.440
<v Speaker 2>rape activists and show up outside of their houses and

3:29:04.520 --> 3:29:06.560
<v Speaker 2>harass them. As a general rule, the police don't do

3:29:06.600 --> 3:29:09.760
<v Speaker 2>anything if those activists are on the left, right, even

3:29:09.800 --> 3:29:12.000
<v Speaker 2>though that crosses the boundary into fighting words. However, they

3:29:12.000 --> 3:29:16.520
<v Speaker 2>have legally could they choose not to, right, But if

3:29:16.640 --> 3:29:18.520
<v Speaker 2>someone is out there saying in the wake of the

3:29:18.600 --> 3:29:22.520
<v Speaker 2>Charlie Kirk shooting, I want to incite people to kill

3:29:22.520 --> 3:29:24.920
<v Speaker 2>this person. That is illegal. You're not allowed to say

3:29:25.000 --> 3:29:28.120
<v Speaker 2>I want to incite people to murder this person.

3:29:28.440 --> 3:29:29.240
<v Speaker 6>That is a crime.

3:29:29.320 --> 3:29:32.400
<v Speaker 2>If you're posting and saying that you have broken the law,

3:29:32.920 --> 3:29:35.120
<v Speaker 2>they won't go after a conservative for doing that, but

3:29:35.160 --> 3:29:38.960
<v Speaker 2>they'll go after you, right like. That is how things work,

3:29:39.200 --> 3:29:43.000
<v Speaker 2>you know. However, we have seen people who have been

3:29:43.520 --> 3:29:47.120
<v Speaker 2>attacked for speech that absolutely is not crossing the line

3:29:47.120 --> 3:29:47.959
<v Speaker 2>into fighting words.

3:29:48.080 --> 3:29:48.280
<v Speaker 3>Right.

3:29:48.680 --> 3:29:51.480
<v Speaker 2>One of the better examples for this happened at Texas Tech.

3:29:51.520 --> 3:29:51.880
<v Speaker 3>It happened.

3:29:52.720 --> 3:29:54.400
<v Speaker 2>You've had variants of this happened at a couple of

3:29:54.720 --> 3:29:59.360
<v Speaker 2>colleges all around the country. They're specifically at Texas Tech,

3:29:59.400 --> 3:30:02.400
<v Speaker 2>which is, you know, one of Texas's kind of premiere

3:30:02.800 --> 3:30:05.720
<v Speaker 2>state schools. There was a video of an incident on

3:30:05.760 --> 3:30:09.840
<v Speaker 2>the day that Charlie Kirk was killed where a student

3:30:10.160 --> 3:30:13.880
<v Speaker 2>scene jumping up and down, yelling profanity at a vigil

3:30:14.080 --> 3:30:16.560
<v Speaker 2>in a free speech zone outside of a student union

3:30:16.600 --> 3:30:20.520
<v Speaker 2>building on the campus, saying y'all, Homie dead, making fun

3:30:20.640 --> 3:30:23.200
<v Speaker 2>of people who were mourning Kirk's death. At one point,

3:30:23.240 --> 3:30:27.280
<v Speaker 2>she touched a guy's hat. The video of her went viral.

3:30:27.760 --> 3:30:31.160
<v Speaker 2>Governor Greg Abbott called for her to be arrested and expelled.

3:30:31.320 --> 3:30:34.240
<v Speaker 2>She was expelled immediately. She was arrested and charged with

3:30:34.280 --> 3:30:38.080
<v Speaker 2>assault shortly thereafter. Her family has not made a statement.

3:30:38.200 --> 3:30:40.760
<v Speaker 2>Very wisely, there's really nothing they could say that would

3:30:40.840 --> 3:30:44.360
<v Speaker 2>be great at this point. There has been some pushback

3:30:44.560 --> 3:30:48.640
<v Speaker 2>from student organizations in the state because this is blatantly illegal.

3:30:49.280 --> 3:30:52.720
<v Speaker 2>Calling what she did assault is nonsense. In my opinion

3:30:52.800 --> 3:30:55.960
<v Speaker 2>from watching the video, she was at a free speech zone,

3:30:56.840 --> 3:31:00.920
<v Speaker 2>laughing y'all homely dead when someone is killed is no words.

3:31:01.360 --> 3:31:04.720
<v Speaker 2>That is not illegal. You are allowed to say stuff

3:31:04.800 --> 3:31:07.600
<v Speaker 2>like that under the letter of the law. Does this

3:31:07.720 --> 3:31:11.320
<v Speaker 2>mean this person won't get convicted of a crime. It's Texas,

3:31:11.440 --> 3:31:12.560
<v Speaker 2>and she's a black woman.

3:31:12.640 --> 3:31:13.120
<v Speaker 3>She might.

3:31:13.720 --> 3:31:17.840
<v Speaker 2>And this is very chilling. This is deeply concerning. This

3:31:17.959 --> 3:31:21.040
<v Speaker 2>is not the only case. There's a universe, smaller university

3:31:21.040 --> 3:31:24.519
<v Speaker 2>outside of Austin where again a student was videotaped celebrating

3:31:24.520 --> 3:31:27.920
<v Speaker 2>individual for Kirk's death. That person was expelled as well.

3:31:28.000 --> 3:31:30.720
<v Speaker 2>There have been a number of teachers fired. Obviously, stuff

3:31:30.760 --> 3:31:32.760
<v Speaker 2>like this has been happening all over the country, right

3:31:33.200 --> 3:31:36.160
<v Speaker 2>and this is deeply worrying. And even if even if

3:31:36.240 --> 3:31:38.680
<v Speaker 2>the space of possibility closes on these people faster than

3:31:38.720 --> 3:31:43.800
<v Speaker 2>they're expecting. If the crackdown on the Open Society Foundation

3:31:43.879 --> 3:31:46.360
<v Speaker 2>doesn't happen, if this Antifa stuff doesn't go any further

3:31:46.400 --> 3:31:48.720
<v Speaker 2>than the last time they've talked about going after Antifa,

3:31:49.120 --> 3:31:52.400
<v Speaker 2>stuff like this is going to continue to happen, and

3:31:52.440 --> 3:31:55.560
<v Speaker 2>it will only accelerate over the next couple of years, right,

3:31:55.879 --> 3:31:58.119
<v Speaker 2>and that is a massive problem.

3:31:58.320 --> 3:32:02.160
<v Speaker 3>Part of this culture shift can be seen in what

3:32:02.560 --> 3:32:05.880
<v Speaker 3>some people are probably not very smartly calling the biggest

3:32:05.920 --> 3:32:08.200
<v Speaker 3>attack on free speech they've ever seen in their life,

3:32:08.520 --> 3:32:13.160
<v Speaker 3>which is on Wednesday evening, ABC put Jimmy Kimmel's show

3:32:13.320 --> 3:32:17.000
<v Speaker 3>on hold quote unquote, indefinitely, following pressure from the FCC

3:32:17.200 --> 3:32:21.360
<v Speaker 3>and affiliate stations owned by Nextstar. Before ABC's announcement next

3:32:21.400 --> 3:32:24.119
<v Speaker 3>our release to statement quote, next Star's owned and partner

3:32:24.120 --> 3:32:27.560
<v Speaker 3>television stations affiliated with the NBC Television Network will preempt

3:32:27.720 --> 3:32:30.879
<v Speaker 3>Jimmy Kimmel Live for the foreseeable future, beginning with Tonight's show.

3:32:30.879 --> 3:32:32.920
<v Speaker 3>Next to our strongly object to the recent comments made

3:32:32.959 --> 3:32:35.160
<v Speaker 3>by mister Kimmel concerning the killing and Charlie Kirk, and

3:32:35.160 --> 3:32:37.880
<v Speaker 3>will replace the show with other programming in its ABC

3:32:37.959 --> 3:32:42.680
<v Speaker 3>affiliated markets unquote. Sinclair Broadcasting also stated it would not

3:32:42.720 --> 3:32:45.560
<v Speaker 3>air Kimmel's show and called on Kimmel to apologize to

3:32:45.600 --> 3:32:48.280
<v Speaker 3>the Kirk family and donate to the Kirk Family as

3:32:48.320 --> 3:32:55.039
<v Speaker 3>well as TPUSA. Earlier that Wednesday, FCC Chairman Brendan Carr

3:32:55.160 --> 3:32:59.560
<v Speaker 3>advocated on the conservative podcaster Benny Johnson's show, quote, it's

3:32:59.680 --> 3:33:02.119
<v Speaker 3>really sort of past time that a lot of these

3:33:02.160 --> 3:33:05.680
<v Speaker 3>licensed broadcasters themselves push back on Comcast Disney and say

3:33:05.879 --> 3:33:07.920
<v Speaker 3>we are not going to run Kimmel anymore until you

3:33:07.959 --> 3:33:10.800
<v Speaker 3>straighten this out, and we, the licensed broadcaster, are running

3:33:10.879 --> 3:33:14.480
<v Speaker 3>the possibility of fines or license revocation from the SEC

3:33:14.480 --> 3:33:16.959
<v Speaker 3>if we continue to run content that ends up being

3:33:17.240 --> 3:33:21.240
<v Speaker 3>a pattern of news distortion un quote. Carr then made

3:33:21.879 --> 3:33:26.040
<v Speaker 3>vague threats towards like direct FCC involvement, quote, we can

3:33:26.080 --> 3:33:28.720
<v Speaker 3>do this easy way or the hard way. These companies

3:33:28.959 --> 3:33:31.760
<v Speaker 3>can find ways to change conduct and take action frankly

3:33:32.280 --> 3:33:35.120
<v Speaker 3>on Kimmel, or there's going to be additional work for

3:33:35.160 --> 3:33:38.720
<v Speaker 3>the FCC ahead on quote. The SEC controls broadcast licenses

3:33:38.720 --> 3:33:41.720
<v Speaker 3>for local TV channels, and next Star is planning a

3:33:41.800 --> 3:33:45.600
<v Speaker 3>merger with Tegna, which requires SEC approval, and this is

3:33:45.640 --> 3:33:48.720
<v Speaker 3>obviously a coerced attack on free speech.

3:33:48.879 --> 3:33:53.040
<v Speaker 2>And we've seen a lot of people shows and whatnot

3:33:53.080 --> 3:33:56.560
<v Speaker 2>getting polled and people speaking out getting in trouble because

3:33:56.600 --> 3:33:59.039
<v Speaker 2>they're companies. They're trying to do a merger. Right, that's

3:33:59.080 --> 3:33:59.520
<v Speaker 2>not new.

3:34:00.120 --> 3:34:02.760
<v Speaker 3>Yes, this has happened with ABC already. This happened with

3:34:02.840 --> 3:34:06.680
<v Speaker 3>a CBS and paramount. I think some people, including people

3:34:06.720 --> 3:34:09.959
<v Speaker 3>on the right, are misunderstanding some of the circumstances of

3:34:10.040 --> 3:34:13.039
<v Speaker 3>the firing or the being put on hold, as well

3:34:13.080 --> 3:34:16.039
<v Speaker 3>as what, like Kimmel said, kim wasn't joking about or

3:34:16.080 --> 3:34:21.040
<v Speaker 3>celebrating Kirk's death. What he did do is possibly like

3:34:21.200 --> 3:34:25.320
<v Speaker 3>falsely insinuate that the shooter was Mega when evidence at

3:34:25.360 --> 3:34:28.640
<v Speaker 3>the time pointed otherwise. Kimill said, quote, we hit some

3:34:28.680 --> 3:34:31.520
<v Speaker 3>new lows over the weekend with the Mega Gang desperately

3:34:31.760 --> 3:34:34.360
<v Speaker 3>trying to characterize the kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as

3:34:34.360 --> 3:34:37.400
<v Speaker 3>anything other than one of them and doing everything they

3:34:37.400 --> 3:34:40.120
<v Speaker 3>can to score political points from it. Quote. He then

3:34:40.160 --> 3:34:41.959
<v Speaker 3>went on to tell a joke about how Trump did

3:34:42.000 --> 3:34:44.880
<v Speaker 3>not seem very sad in the wake of Charlie Kirk's death,

3:34:45.280 --> 3:34:48.800
<v Speaker 3>comparing the death to a goldfish in Trump's mind, that

3:34:48.879 --> 3:34:51.400
<v Speaker 3>was the way the joke was framed. Yeah, so that's

3:34:51.440 --> 3:34:54.879
<v Speaker 3>what kim Oll actually said. You can interpret that either way,

3:34:54.920 --> 3:34:58.760
<v Speaker 3>whether he's just saying that megas are desperately trying to

3:34:58.920 --> 3:35:01.480
<v Speaker 3>make it look like he's not one of them and

3:35:01.520 --> 3:35:04.199
<v Speaker 3>scoring political points, or you can interpret it as Kimmel

3:35:04.480 --> 3:35:07.640
<v Speaker 3>kind of insinuating that the shooter probably is mega. I

3:35:07.840 --> 3:35:10.879
<v Speaker 3>don't know Kimmel's mind. I'm not sure what he exactly

3:35:10.920 --> 3:35:14.520
<v Speaker 3>meant by that, But The Rolling Stone reported that sources

3:35:14.600 --> 3:35:17.720
<v Speaker 3>told them the quote. Senior executives at ABC, its owner,

3:35:17.760 --> 3:35:21.080
<v Speaker 3>Disney and affiliates convened emergency meetings to figure out how

3:35:21.120 --> 3:35:24.000
<v Speaker 3>to minimize the damage. Multiple execs felt Kimmel had not

3:35:24.040 --> 3:35:27.000
<v Speaker 3>actually said anything over the line, but the threat of

3:35:27.160 --> 3:35:30.760
<v Speaker 3>Trump administration retaliation loomed unquote.

3:35:31.240 --> 3:35:35.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and this is again, this is chilling, absolutely chilling speech.

3:35:35.680 --> 3:35:38.360
<v Speaker 2>The things he said, we're not in line with the

3:35:38.360 --> 3:35:40.520
<v Speaker 2>best available evidence at the time that he said them.

3:35:40.680 --> 3:35:43.920
<v Speaker 2>But they weren't hate speech, they were not incitement to violence.

3:35:44.000 --> 3:35:46.720
<v Speaker 2>There was nothing a league know about them. And again,

3:35:46.840 --> 3:35:51.120
<v Speaker 2>you had a fucking right wing figure on television urging

3:35:51.160 --> 3:35:53.480
<v Speaker 2>for homeless people to be executed.

3:35:54.160 --> 3:35:58.720
<v Speaker 3>The involuntary lethal ejection to solve the homeless crisis. Quote,

3:35:58.959 --> 3:36:00.920
<v Speaker 3>just kill them. He's not getting fired.

3:36:01.080 --> 3:36:03.680
<v Speaker 2>No, he had to make a half assed apology, but

3:36:03.720 --> 3:36:04.200
<v Speaker 2>that's it.

3:36:04.440 --> 3:36:06.320
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, Like he had to pretend to be sorry.

3:36:06.440 --> 3:36:08.360
<v Speaker 18>If I had a nickel for every time someone on

3:36:08.480 --> 3:36:12.480
<v Speaker 18>Fox News said that like any mass shooter at all

3:36:12.640 --> 3:36:15.120
<v Speaker 18>was linked to a trans person, Like none of my

3:36:15.240 --> 3:36:18.680
<v Speaker 18>trans friends would ever be homeless. Again, Like they say

3:36:18.720 --> 3:36:21.760
<v Speaker 18>this shit all the time and nothing happens, even though

3:36:21.760 --> 3:36:24.360
<v Speaker 18>it is I mean literally just it is straight up

3:36:24.400 --> 3:36:28.359
<v Speaker 18>tofammatory yep. And they say that shit constantly and nothing happens.

3:36:28.360 --> 3:36:33.920
<v Speaker 18>And this is just a really pure, i mean example

3:36:34.040 --> 3:36:37.480
<v Speaker 18>of just the latant political suppression of speech. And also

3:36:37.600 --> 3:36:40.480
<v Speaker 18>this sort of like we talked about this with the mergers,

3:36:40.560 --> 3:36:44.400
<v Speaker 18>is the structural problem with the way that like the

3:36:44.400 --> 3:36:46.879
<v Speaker 18>American quote unquote free press is supposed to be structured,

3:36:46.879 --> 3:36:51.040
<v Speaker 18>which is that they're all for profit companies. And because

3:36:51.040 --> 3:36:52.920
<v Speaker 18>of that, all you need to do is just buy

3:36:53.000 --> 3:36:55.720
<v Speaker 18>out or threaten their profit enough and they'll just fall

3:36:55.760 --> 3:36:58.400
<v Speaker 18>in line. And that's what we've been watching with news

3:36:58.440 --> 3:37:00.880
<v Speaker 18>outlet after news outlet for news outlet like firing anyone

3:37:00.879 --> 3:37:02.320
<v Speaker 18>who said anything being about Kirk.

3:37:02.760 --> 3:37:06.959
<v Speaker 3>Yep, I think with that that concludes our Charlie Kirk

3:37:07.240 --> 3:37:11.800
<v Speaker 3>assassination aftermath discussion for now. But there is in fact

3:37:11.840 --> 3:37:16.920
<v Speaker 3>other news this week happening. James, do you have stuff? Yeah,

3:37:17.000 --> 3:37:19.879
<v Speaker 3>un Fortunately, I'm like I'm embracing myself. I know that

3:37:19.959 --> 3:37:21.720
<v Speaker 3>James's news is never that good either.

3:37:22.000 --> 3:37:24.680
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, so it was good news these days.

3:37:25.600 --> 3:37:29.760
<v Speaker 3>Really the passport thing was killed, right, the Mark Rubio.

3:37:30.000 --> 3:37:32.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, there is some good news. Actually, there

3:37:32.400 --> 3:37:34.720
<v Speaker 2>was a Senate bill, a writer on a bill that

3:37:34.760 --> 3:37:38.279
<v Speaker 2>was introduced that would have given Marco Rubio the power

3:37:38.400 --> 3:37:43.039
<v Speaker 2>to revoke passports for citizens for effectively political speech and

3:37:43.080 --> 3:37:46.240
<v Speaker 2>the guys of speech protecting you know, quote unquote terrorists.

3:37:46.959 --> 3:37:50.800
<v Speaker 2>That failed, like that was pulled by the sponsor, which

3:37:50.840 --> 3:37:53.680
<v Speaker 2>is good. There was a backlash to it, and again

3:37:54.200 --> 3:38:01.280
<v Speaker 2>when there's backlashes, that's that's good. Yeah yeah, yeah.

3:38:00.600 --> 3:38:02.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean it's it's it's so annoying to have

3:38:02.720 --> 3:38:04.880
<v Speaker 3>to like we all know that like pointing out the

3:38:04.959 --> 3:38:08.640
<v Speaker 3>hypocrisy doesn't work as like a real strategy, but like

3:38:09.360 --> 3:38:12.359
<v Speaker 3>there's if there's a way besides that to like actually

3:38:12.920 --> 3:38:16.320
<v Speaker 3>channel resistance to these authoritarian and like speech chilling measures.

3:38:16.480 --> 3:38:19.520
<v Speaker 3>Besides just smugly going like haha, the Party of free

3:38:19.560 --> 3:38:23.400
<v Speaker 3>speech strikes again, which I understand how that's emotionally compelling,

3:38:23.720 --> 3:38:25.800
<v Speaker 3>but no one cares. It's not going to stop them

3:38:25.800 --> 3:38:27.320
<v Speaker 3>from taking away your free speech.

3:38:27.600 --> 3:38:27.680
<v Speaker 17>No.

3:38:28.120 --> 3:38:32.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, speaking of free speech, here's some free ads.

3:38:32.400 --> 3:38:46.720
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, we are back. I don't worry, folks. It is

3:38:46.840 --> 3:38:50.560
<v Speaker 6>all downhill from here. I'm afraid because things have not

3:38:50.720 --> 3:38:54.959
<v Speaker 6>been good outside of the coverage and repercussions to the

3:38:55.000 --> 3:38:58.160
<v Speaker 6>Charlie Kirk shooting. And to start with, I want us

3:38:58.200 --> 3:39:00.600
<v Speaker 6>to talk about Ghana. And this is one stories that

3:39:00.680 --> 3:39:03.880
<v Speaker 6>unfortunately has been kind of eclipsed this week, but it

3:39:03.879 --> 3:39:05.560
<v Speaker 6>shouldn't be, so we're going to talk about it. So

3:39:05.600 --> 3:39:08.920
<v Speaker 6>the United States has begun using Ghana as a pass

3:39:09.080 --> 3:39:12.760
<v Speaker 6>through to send people back to other countries in West Africa.

3:39:13.400 --> 3:39:17.640
<v Speaker 6>In international law, when somebody has protection from being sent

3:39:17.760 --> 3:39:21.320
<v Speaker 6>to a place and you send them back via another place,

3:39:21.560 --> 3:39:23.240
<v Speaker 6>that's called chain refoulment.

3:39:23.560 --> 3:39:23.720
<v Speaker 3>Right.

3:39:23.879 --> 3:39:25.640
<v Speaker 6>One could probably also pronounce that it's a bit where

3:39:25.680 --> 3:39:28.480
<v Speaker 6>a French word, but I have decided not to. In

3:39:28.520 --> 3:39:31.080
<v Speaker 6>this instance, they're sending people to Ghana when their home

3:39:31.120 --> 3:39:33.640
<v Speaker 6>countries has been deemed to be too dangerous by a

3:39:33.760 --> 3:39:37.640
<v Speaker 6>United States court, or they are unable to send them

3:39:37.680 --> 3:39:40.680
<v Speaker 6>back to that country for some other reason. Right, people

3:39:40.720 --> 3:39:43.400
<v Speaker 6>in this part of the world don't need visas to travel,

3:39:43.560 --> 3:39:47.560
<v Speaker 6>so they can send them to neighboring countries without requiring

3:39:47.760 --> 3:39:50.560
<v Speaker 6>like that, the Ghana can just bust them back, right,

3:39:50.680 --> 3:39:54.400
<v Speaker 6>it doesn't require a great deal of paperwork. So a

3:39:54.560 --> 3:39:57.600
<v Speaker 6>court has ordered the United States that there was an

3:39:57.600 --> 3:40:01.440
<v Speaker 6>attempt right to secure protection for these people via them

3:40:01.440 --> 3:40:04.720
<v Speaker 6>into a temporary restraining order to prevent them either being

3:40:04.760 --> 3:40:06.800
<v Speaker 6>sent away. Some of them were in Ghana at the

3:40:06.840 --> 3:40:08.800
<v Speaker 6>time the case was filed, right, so to prevent them

3:40:08.800 --> 3:40:12.040
<v Speaker 6>being sent from Ghana to places where they may face,

3:40:12.120 --> 3:40:15.440
<v Speaker 6>as we're about to hear, torture, death, pretty much the

3:40:15.480 --> 3:40:18.840
<v Speaker 6>worst ship that can happen to people. So the court

3:40:18.879 --> 3:40:21.480
<v Speaker 6>did order the United States to produce a document which

3:40:21.520 --> 3:40:24.600
<v Speaker 6>details the exact nature of its agreement with Ghana. At

3:40:24.600 --> 3:40:27.680
<v Speaker 6>the time I'm writing, the United States has not produced that.

3:40:28.320 --> 3:40:32.200
<v Speaker 6>Ghanan sources have repeatedly suggested that one exists. Right in

3:40:32.360 --> 3:40:38.800
<v Speaker 6>Ghanaian government press conferences and internal Ghanan news reporting, the

3:40:38.959 --> 3:40:44.560
<v Speaker 6>case was bought by both Gambia and Nigerian citizens. Right, So,

3:40:44.600 --> 3:40:47.040
<v Speaker 6>people who don't want to be returned to those countries

3:40:47.600 --> 3:40:51.560
<v Speaker 6>in their attempt to obtain a restraining order. In one instance,

3:40:51.720 --> 3:40:54.880
<v Speaker 6>one of the people who bought the case fled after

3:40:55.000 --> 3:40:58.039
<v Speaker 6>torture by the police and military and was explicitly told

3:40:58.320 --> 3:41:00.840
<v Speaker 6>that if he came back they would kill him. And

3:41:00.840 --> 3:41:03.039
<v Speaker 6>what the US is doing here is using Ghana as

3:41:03.040 --> 3:41:04.720
<v Speaker 6>a pass through to send him back.

3:41:04.800 --> 3:41:05.000
<v Speaker 13>Right.

3:41:05.760 --> 3:41:08.440
<v Speaker 6>Yeah. Some of them also detailed in the case they're

3:41:08.480 --> 3:41:11.400
<v Speaker 6>transport They said they were in straight jackets for sixteen

3:41:11.520 --> 3:41:15.400
<v Speaker 6>hours on the flight the US. Right, the government, the

3:41:15.440 --> 3:41:18.279
<v Speaker 6>United States government in this instance has once again claimed

3:41:18.320 --> 3:41:20.560
<v Speaker 6>that these people are out of its hands and it

3:41:20.640 --> 3:41:23.800
<v Speaker 6>has no way of stopping the government of Ghana from

3:41:23.840 --> 3:41:25.400
<v Speaker 6>sending them back to these other countries.

3:41:25.480 --> 3:41:25.600
<v Speaker 3>Right.

3:41:25.640 --> 3:41:27.440
<v Speaker 6>This is an argument that is attempted to make in

3:41:27.480 --> 3:41:30.600
<v Speaker 6>several other instances. And I do just want to flag that,

3:41:30.720 --> 3:41:34.800
<v Speaker 6>like this, use of third party countries for deportation has

3:41:35.120 --> 3:41:38.760
<v Speaker 6>much increased under the Trump administration, But it was the

3:41:38.800 --> 3:41:44.360
<v Speaker 6>Biden administration who begun funding Panamanian deportations right way before

3:41:44.360 --> 3:41:48.000
<v Speaker 6>Donald Trump was even elected, and I have documented that

3:41:48.040 --> 3:41:52.120
<v Speaker 6>extensively in my series on the Darien Gap. The court

3:41:52.200 --> 3:41:54.920
<v Speaker 6>determined in this case that it didn't have the jurisdiction

3:41:55.600 --> 3:41:58.320
<v Speaker 6>to grant the plaintiff's relief right, so that means that

3:41:58.320 --> 3:42:00.600
<v Speaker 6>they're not able to get a restraining order. One of

3:42:00.640 --> 3:42:02.840
<v Speaker 6>the people had actually already been returned to the place

3:42:02.879 --> 3:42:06.640
<v Speaker 6>where they had a convention against torture protection from and

3:42:06.760 --> 3:42:08.920
<v Speaker 6>was in hiding at the time. At the court case right,

3:42:09.320 --> 3:42:12.000
<v Speaker 6>the judge said that the government's actions were part of

3:42:12.080 --> 3:42:15.879
<v Speaker 6>a quoting here pattern and widespread effort to evade the

3:42:15.920 --> 3:42:21.160
<v Speaker 6>government's legal obligations by doing indirectly what it cannot do directly.

3:42:21.520 --> 3:42:23.920
<v Speaker 6>We are recording this on the eighteenth of September. It's

3:42:23.959 --> 3:42:28.160
<v Speaker 6>a Thursday, and about fifteen minutes ago, another United States

3:42:28.160 --> 3:42:31.400
<v Speaker 6>flight just landed in Ghana, so this practice appears to

3:42:31.400 --> 3:42:34.080
<v Speaker 6>be ongoing. Secondly, what I want to talk about is

3:42:34.760 --> 3:42:40.840
<v Speaker 6>sadly another shooting, the killing of Silverio Viegas Gonzales in Chicago.

3:42:41.120 --> 3:42:44.080
<v Speaker 6>Diegos Gonzales was a thirty eight year old father, a

3:42:44.120 --> 3:42:48.880
<v Speaker 6>Mexican national, and he was shot by either one or

3:42:48.920 --> 3:42:52.720
<v Speaker 6>two ICE agents while driving away from them. An ICE

3:42:52.720 --> 3:42:54.960
<v Speaker 6>state mclaim that he drove towards them and ended up

3:42:55.040 --> 3:42:59.039
<v Speaker 6>dragging an agent a significant distance. Surveillan's camera footage at

3:42:59.040 --> 3:43:02.720
<v Speaker 6>the scene shows one agent talking to Vegas Gonzales in

3:43:02.760 --> 3:43:06.680
<v Speaker 6>his vehicle. We then see the vehicle reverse away from

3:43:06.720 --> 3:43:10.200
<v Speaker 6>them and then move around them to the left when

3:43:10.240 --> 3:43:13.720
<v Speaker 6>it sees a gap in traffic. The ICE agents have

3:43:13.840 --> 3:43:16.640
<v Speaker 6>placed their vehicle, which is an SUV, in front of

3:43:16.680 --> 3:43:19.560
<v Speaker 6>his vehicle, sort of cramping it into the curve right,

3:43:19.600 --> 3:43:22.440
<v Speaker 6>so he has to reverse backwards and then move forward

3:43:22.480 --> 3:43:25.760
<v Speaker 6>and to the left in order to try and drive away,

3:43:25.800 --> 3:43:28.000
<v Speaker 6>which is what he's trying to do. Right. We can

3:43:28.000 --> 3:43:30.480
<v Speaker 6>only see one of the officers in the footage. We

3:43:30.520 --> 3:43:33.360
<v Speaker 6>see the other officer later in other footage. The officer

3:43:33.360 --> 3:43:35.280
<v Speaker 6>in the footage does not appear to be dragged, but

3:43:35.360 --> 3:43:39.879
<v Speaker 6>he appears to draw his weapon in by standard footage,

3:43:39.959 --> 3:43:42.680
<v Speaker 6>we then see two officers pull vee Gas Gonzales from

3:43:42.680 --> 3:43:48.400
<v Speaker 6>the vehicle and they begin administering first aid. We're just

3:43:48.440 --> 3:43:50.160
<v Speaker 6>rewatching the footage now and you can see the other

3:43:50.240 --> 3:43:51.840
<v Speaker 6>agent on the other side of the vehicle.

3:43:52.040 --> 3:43:55.360
<v Speaker 3>This sounds very similar to the time that ICE shot

3:43:55.440 --> 3:43:57.959
<v Speaker 3>at the car driving away just a few weeks ago.

3:43:58.160 --> 3:44:03.240
<v Speaker 6>Sure, and Sam Bernardino absolutely, yeah. Generally, I have no

3:44:03.320 --> 3:44:06.360
<v Speaker 6>idea of what rules ICE are operating under. It's not

3:44:06.480 --> 3:44:09.120
<v Speaker 6>considered best practice to open fire a vehicle that is

3:44:09.160 --> 3:44:12.360
<v Speaker 6>moving away from you unless it's actively endangering no, someone

3:44:12.400 --> 3:44:13.400
<v Speaker 6>else's life, right.

3:44:13.360 --> 3:44:16.200
<v Speaker 2>In part because even if it's endangering someone else's life,

3:44:16.800 --> 3:44:21.120
<v Speaker 2>a handgun will not stop a car. Yeah, maybe you

3:44:21.240 --> 3:44:24.400
<v Speaker 2>hit the driver, but the odds are just as good,

3:44:24.440 --> 3:44:27.080
<v Speaker 2>if not much better. Then it goes through a window

3:44:27.120 --> 3:44:31.320
<v Speaker 2>and remains lethal going past the car and endangering people's lives.

3:44:31.959 --> 3:44:34.760
<v Speaker 18>And also it's worth mentioning on the other side of

3:44:34.760 --> 3:44:36.760
<v Speaker 18>the car from the officer who we see draw his

3:44:36.840 --> 3:44:40.520
<v Speaker 18>gun is the other agent. Yes, yeah, so if you're

3:44:40.520 --> 3:44:45.439
<v Speaker 18>shooting at the car, you're shooting at your other agent.

3:44:46.520 --> 3:44:50.240
<v Speaker 2>Guns don't stop cars, generally, unless you're killing a fifty

3:44:50.280 --> 3:44:54.879
<v Speaker 2>caliber anti materiel rifle. Guns don't stop cars. Yeah, like

3:44:55.800 --> 3:44:58.640
<v Speaker 2>they do stop people, but they but they keep bullets

3:44:58.720 --> 3:45:00.959
<v Speaker 2>keep going when they mess. It's just bad. It's a

3:45:00.959 --> 3:45:04.240
<v Speaker 2>bad thing to do. It's irresponsible, it's normal cap shit.

3:45:04.840 --> 3:45:09.320
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, So what we see is at least two shots fired,

3:45:09.920 --> 3:45:12.760
<v Speaker 6>and then we begin to see that then they leave

3:45:12.840 --> 3:45:16.960
<v Speaker 6>the screen of the surveillance camera, right, so we don't

3:45:17.000 --> 3:45:21.920
<v Speaker 6>see exactly like we're unable to see. I guess where

3:45:21.920 --> 3:45:25.879
<v Speaker 6>those bullets impact the bystander. Footy Sen shows his vehicle

3:45:25.920 --> 3:45:30.480
<v Speaker 6>crashed into the undercarriage of a large lorry like a truck, right,

3:45:30.600 --> 3:45:34.680
<v Speaker 6>and he's hit that vehicle in a way that could

3:45:34.760 --> 3:45:38.280
<v Speaker 6>also have been fatal, right, like the way that he's

3:45:38.640 --> 3:45:40.520
<v Speaker 6>he's hit that vehicle, like the engine block of the

3:45:40.560 --> 3:45:42.640
<v Speaker 6>car goes underneath, So it would be the driver who

3:45:42.640 --> 3:45:46.039
<v Speaker 6>would take the main impact because the because the trailer

3:45:46.200 --> 3:45:47.760
<v Speaker 6>is higher off the ground.

3:45:47.840 --> 3:45:48.000
<v Speaker 21>Right.

3:45:48.640 --> 3:45:52.520
<v Speaker 6>Hopefully that's making sense to people. Totally, He's traveled about

3:45:52.560 --> 3:45:55.920
<v Speaker 6>one hundred feet in this time period. Unraveled Press have

3:45:55.959 --> 3:45:58.000
<v Speaker 6>a pretty good account of this, if cobbled together. I

3:45:58.000 --> 3:46:00.080
<v Speaker 6>think most of the open source video and also the

3:46:00.160 --> 3:46:04.280
<v Speaker 6>surveillance video. There don't appear in those videos to be

3:46:04.440 --> 3:46:08.120
<v Speaker 6>any other agents present, And when we see the agents

3:46:08.160 --> 3:46:11.520
<v Speaker 6>rendering aid, none of them appears to be in the

3:46:11.600 --> 3:46:13.680
<v Speaker 6>state someone would be had they been dragged by a

3:46:13.680 --> 3:46:17.600
<v Speaker 6>fast moving car. Also, again, like with reference to shooting

3:46:17.640 --> 3:46:19.680
<v Speaker 6>at a moving vehicle, if the moving vehicle is dragging

3:46:19.720 --> 3:46:23.040
<v Speaker 6>your colleague, you're shooting also at your colleague if you

3:46:23.040 --> 3:46:26.840
<v Speaker 6>shoot at the vehicle. So unfortunately, none of this changes

3:46:26.920 --> 3:46:29.480
<v Speaker 6>the fact that this guy is now dead. Right, the

3:46:29.520 --> 3:46:32.920
<v Speaker 6>Mexican Consulate has confirmed his age. They said he was

3:46:32.959 --> 3:46:35.640
<v Speaker 6>working as a cook as his profession and that he

3:46:35.720 --> 3:46:38.600
<v Speaker 6>was from michual punt The Consulate has been in touch

3:46:38.680 --> 3:46:43.440
<v Speaker 6>with his family. Generally, I'm not familiar with this instance

3:46:43.440 --> 3:46:46.680
<v Speaker 6>and what will happen. Generally, the Mexican Consulate will help

3:46:46.800 --> 3:46:50.439
<v Speaker 6>with returning the remains of Mexican nationals to their families

3:46:50.440 --> 3:46:55.959
<v Speaker 6>in Mexico. That's most of what I have on his death.

3:46:56.000 --> 3:46:58.959
<v Speaker 6>It seems to have moved like very quickly through the

3:46:59.000 --> 3:47:02.400
<v Speaker 6>news cycle, which is unfortunate because obviously you have children

3:47:02.440 --> 3:47:04.280
<v Speaker 6>who have lost a father here like this. This is

3:47:04.320 --> 3:47:08.400
<v Speaker 6>a tragedy too. Yeah, no, this is tragic. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

3:47:08.520 --> 3:47:11.000
<v Speaker 6>you know. And I am sitting here haunted by the

3:47:11.040 --> 3:47:14.560
<v Speaker 6>fact that they killed this guy two days after the

3:47:14.680 --> 3:47:16.920
<v Speaker 6>Charlie Kirk shooting. I think most of the people who

3:47:16.959 --> 3:47:19.199
<v Speaker 6>are listening to the show right now don't know this happened.

3:47:19.600 --> 3:47:22.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, these agents aren't going to get prosecuted in the

3:47:22.240 --> 3:47:24.640
<v Speaker 3>court of law for this, the same way that absolutely

3:47:24.680 --> 3:47:25.920
<v Speaker 3>the Charlie kirkissas as will.

3:47:26.600 --> 3:47:30.760
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, generally, like local there have been some cases, but

3:47:30.800 --> 3:47:34.400
<v Speaker 6>I'm not really aware of any filed against border patrol agents. Generally,

3:47:34.680 --> 3:47:39.880
<v Speaker 6>DHS has an agency which investigates like use of force incidents, right,

3:47:39.959 --> 3:47:43.920
<v Speaker 6>and it is I will say it is extremely There

3:47:43.959 --> 3:47:46.400
<v Speaker 6>have been times when agents have been charged.

3:47:48.360 --> 3:47:53.120
<v Speaker 3>They are rare Stephen Miller's DHS that seems very unlikely.

3:47:53.360 --> 3:47:55.320
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, Like I'm aware of some charges, for instance in

3:47:55.760 --> 3:47:59.360
<v Speaker 6>San Diego, for agents who have allowed drugs to cross

3:47:59.400 --> 3:47:59.760
<v Speaker 6>the border.

3:48:00.280 --> 3:48:03.480
<v Speaker 18>Sure, it is pretty rare. Yeah, So let's let's talk

3:48:03.480 --> 3:48:07.199
<v Speaker 18>about what ICE's occupation of Chicago has been. Like, Yeah,

3:48:07.480 --> 3:48:11.360
<v Speaker 18>I kind of want to start with something that's been

3:48:11.440 --> 3:48:13.560
<v Speaker 18>very frustrating, which is a lot of the way that

3:48:13.680 --> 3:48:18.520
<v Speaker 18>Chicago has been discussed in the wake of Trump, like

3:48:19.040 --> 3:48:23.760
<v Speaker 18>not deploying the National Guard. There has been about oh,

3:48:23.800 --> 3:48:25.840
<v Speaker 18>if you resist trumpet will like you know, you can

3:48:25.879 --> 3:48:29.480
<v Speaker 18>defeat him, and like that's true. But also ICE and

3:48:29.520 --> 3:48:32.960
<v Speaker 18>Border Patrol are on the ground in Chicago as we're

3:48:32.959 --> 3:48:35.320
<v Speaker 18>listening to this right now, dragging people from their homes.

3:48:36.440 --> 3:48:41.440
<v Speaker 18>The raids have gone to a significant extent the way

3:48:41.480 --> 3:48:43.039
<v Speaker 18>that we expected them to.

3:48:44.240 --> 3:48:45.160
<v Speaker 3>They have been.

3:48:45.760 --> 3:48:50.879
<v Speaker 18>Largely very very fast lightning raids. A lot of them

3:48:50.920 --> 3:48:53.440
<v Speaker 18>have been an outlying part of Chicago land, which has

3:48:53.480 --> 3:48:56.200
<v Speaker 18>been making it difficult to both track them and determine

3:48:56.240 --> 3:48:59.680
<v Speaker 18>numbers because a lot of these parts of these massive

3:48:59.800 --> 3:49:02.640
<v Speaker 18>high suburby we're going to talk about one later called

3:49:02.680 --> 3:49:04.720
<v Speaker 18>Elgin then has one hundred thousand people in it, but

3:49:04.720 --> 3:49:07.760
<v Speaker 18>also doesn't have the kind of I mean they have

3:49:07.840 --> 3:49:10.320
<v Speaker 18>like local journalists, but they don't have like the kind

3:49:10.360 --> 3:49:14.000
<v Speaker 18>of press corps that they like the City of Chicago

3:49:14.040 --> 3:49:17.280
<v Speaker 18>proper has, and so documentation isn't much harder, which is

3:49:17.320 --> 3:49:20.680
<v Speaker 18>part of why they've been striking out there. It's largely

3:49:20.720 --> 3:49:24.920
<v Speaker 18>been Ice, but Border patrol has shown up, and part

3:49:24.960 --> 3:49:28.080
<v Speaker 18>of the Border patrol appearing has been that this has

3:49:28.120 --> 3:49:31.960
<v Speaker 18>also been a giant PR blitz for Trump administration officials,

3:49:32.280 --> 3:49:34.560
<v Speaker 18>as the people at Unraveled have pointed out, and we'll

3:49:34.600 --> 3:49:37.080
<v Speaker 18>be talking to them more next week about what things

3:49:37.080 --> 3:49:41.640
<v Speaker 18>have been like on the ground. A senior Border Patrol official,

3:49:42.040 --> 3:49:45.760
<v Speaker 18>Gregory Bovino, has claimed to we don't actually have like

3:49:45.800 --> 3:49:48.040
<v Speaker 18>photograph everyone's in there, but he was posting on X

3:49:48.160 --> 3:49:51.560
<v Speaker 18>that he was he went to Franklin Park, which is

3:49:51.760 --> 3:49:55.840
<v Speaker 18>where Ice shot that guy a couple of days after

3:49:55.880 --> 3:50:00.400
<v Speaker 18>the shooting. Okay, he has been releasing an entire higher

3:50:00.440 --> 3:50:03.640
<v Speaker 18>stream of TikTok and X posts to sort of like

3:50:03.760 --> 3:50:06.160
<v Speaker 18>advertise his presence in the city and doing this whole

3:50:06.240 --> 3:50:08.000
<v Speaker 18>we did this in La or doing this here now

3:50:08.040 --> 3:50:10.280
<v Speaker 18>thing on GMC. You don't talk a little bit about

3:50:10.280 --> 3:50:10.680
<v Speaker 18>who he.

3:50:10.640 --> 3:50:15.120
<v Speaker 6>Is, Yeah, I do so. Baveno was, at least until recently,

3:50:15.880 --> 3:50:17.720
<v Speaker 6>he's appeared to be, as you say, working in Chicago.

3:50:17.840 --> 3:50:21.720
<v Speaker 6>Now his Twitter now reads Commander op at Large CA

3:50:22.160 --> 3:50:24.520
<v Speaker 6>Gregory K. Bavino. He was a chief patrol agent in

3:50:24.520 --> 3:50:27.720
<v Speaker 6>the El Centro sector when we saw Operation Return to

3:50:27.800 --> 3:50:30.760
<v Speaker 6>Sender right. Operation Return December was December of twenty twenty four.

3:50:30.840 --> 3:50:34.800
<v Speaker 6>That's happened under the Biden administration. This was the first

3:50:34.840 --> 3:50:37.760
<v Speaker 6>of these border patrol roving stops way north of the border,

3:50:37.800 --> 3:50:43.000
<v Speaker 6>right up in the central Valley, stopping people in home depots,

3:50:43.120 --> 3:50:48.080
<v Speaker 6>stopping people who appeared to be Latino Latina Latine on

3:50:48.120 --> 3:50:51.760
<v Speaker 6>the street. I would say that cal Matters has had

3:50:51.760 --> 3:50:53.680
<v Speaker 6>a really good coverage of that, and I can link

3:50:53.720 --> 3:50:56.760
<v Speaker 6>it in the show notes. We also saw the deployment

3:50:56.760 --> 3:50:59.160
<v Speaker 6>of border patrol to La Right, that was the El

3:50:59.280 --> 3:51:02.280
<v Speaker 6>Centre Sectl't familiar with El Centro east of San Diego

3:51:02.320 --> 3:51:05.200
<v Speaker 6>along the border right, it's sort of most of the

3:51:05.240 --> 3:51:07.800
<v Speaker 6>way to Arizona if your driving from San Diego. He

3:51:08.080 --> 3:51:10.040
<v Speaker 6>is really, like I would say, a man of the

3:51:10.080 --> 3:51:13.360
<v Speaker 6>moment in terms of Trump's Border patrol, right, Like, border

3:51:13.400 --> 3:51:16.200
<v Speaker 6>patrol is an agency that's changed a lot over the years.

3:51:16.560 --> 3:51:18.360
<v Speaker 6>There was a time with border patrol recruiter from the

3:51:18.400 --> 3:51:21.080
<v Speaker 6>Peace Corps. Now it's not that time. One thing that

3:51:21.120 --> 3:51:26.120
<v Speaker 6>Bavino has been very good at in the sense of

3:51:26.160 --> 3:51:28.840
<v Speaker 6>like doing what the administration wants from a border patrol

3:51:28.880 --> 3:51:30.640
<v Speaker 6>agent right now is his use of social media. My

3:51:30.720 --> 3:51:33.200
<v Speaker 6>understanding is that they have a whole team dedicated to

3:51:33.240 --> 3:51:35.440
<v Speaker 6>this in the El Centro sector, right that they have

3:51:35.600 --> 3:51:39.320
<v Speaker 6>videographers and photographers and such to make social media for

3:51:39.360 --> 3:51:42.760
<v Speaker 6>the border patrol. And Bavina really seems to have been

3:51:43.720 --> 3:51:47.280
<v Speaker 6>stepping up in importance, like he has this sort of

3:51:47.440 --> 3:51:49.840
<v Speaker 6>he also cuts a very distinctive figure with this kind

3:51:49.880 --> 3:51:53.680
<v Speaker 6>of crop side haircut, Like you can find a picture

3:51:53.680 --> 3:51:54.640
<v Speaker 6>of his haircut on and I don't know how to

3:51:54.680 --> 3:51:58.400
<v Speaker 6>describe it. His twetter brick picture shows him holding an

3:51:58.640 --> 3:52:02.640
<v Speaker 6>ar with a low power variable octic like he is

3:52:02.760 --> 3:52:07.880
<v Speaker 6>this new like like tactical aggressive, very aggressive social media

3:52:07.920 --> 3:52:12.040
<v Speaker 6>presence border patrol officer. Right, And we've seen El Centro

3:52:12.160 --> 3:52:15.400
<v Speaker 6>Border Patrol station specifically be at the forefront of a

3:52:15.520 --> 3:52:18.840
<v Speaker 6>lot of these operations. As I said, even going back

3:52:18.880 --> 3:52:23.120
<v Speaker 6>to the Biden era, if you're wondering, border patrol sectors

3:52:23.640 --> 3:52:25.880
<v Speaker 6>are not just around the cities that they're named for, right,

3:52:26.080 --> 3:52:28.000
<v Speaker 6>They can go a long way north. So it's the

3:52:28.040 --> 3:52:30.680
<v Speaker 6>San Diego sector, the El Centro sector. These are not

3:52:30.760 --> 3:52:33.560
<v Speaker 6>necessarily defined by places that you would recognize as being

3:52:33.640 --> 3:52:36.080
<v Speaker 6>close to San Diego or El Centro, which is why

3:52:36.200 --> 3:52:38.120
<v Speaker 6>you would have seen them operating as far north as

3:52:38.120 --> 3:52:41.560
<v Speaker 6>Los Angeles. I'm not as familiar with northern border sectors,

3:52:41.720 --> 3:52:43.920
<v Speaker 6>haven't spent as much time there, but I would imagine

3:52:43.920 --> 3:52:46.440
<v Speaker 6>that there is a border patrol sector that pertains to

3:52:46.480 --> 3:52:50.040
<v Speaker 6>the area that Chicago is in. So perhaps Bavino is

3:52:50.080 --> 3:52:52.400
<v Speaker 6>now doing some kind of operational command for these urban

3:52:52.440 --> 3:52:55.480
<v Speaker 6>things rather than working in that sector. I'm not entirely sure,

3:52:55.520 --> 3:52:57.280
<v Speaker 6>but that's who he is.

3:52:57.600 --> 3:52:59.880
<v Speaker 18>Yeah, and he's been, you know, he's been making it

3:53:00.240 --> 3:53:03.640
<v Speaker 18>enormous deal of showing up in Chicago, and this has

3:53:03.640 --> 3:53:07.440
<v Speaker 18>been something that's increasingly This is part of what it

3:53:07.480 --> 3:53:09.880
<v Speaker 18>means for ice and Border patrol to show up in

3:53:09.880 --> 3:53:16.720
<v Speaker 18>the cities. You get these fucking just absolutely hideous pr ops.

3:53:16.840 --> 3:53:22.440
<v Speaker 18>On Tuesday, Kursy Nome, last scene shooting a dog, joined

3:53:22.440 --> 3:53:26.360
<v Speaker 18>a raid in Elgin, which is a pretty far flung

3:53:27.160 --> 3:53:29.840
<v Speaker 18>suburb of Chicago with about one hundred thousand people in it,

3:53:30.680 --> 3:53:35.560
<v Speaker 18>and she showed up to do basically a pr junket

3:53:36.080 --> 3:53:38.720
<v Speaker 18>at this raid at five in the morning in Elgin,

3:53:38.840 --> 3:53:42.920
<v Speaker 18>where ICE arrived with helicopters. They blew up someone's door

3:53:43.680 --> 3:53:46.000
<v Speaker 18>and they grabbed a bunch of people, and then they

3:53:46.040 --> 3:53:48.440
<v Speaker 18>were forced to release two of the seven people they

3:53:48.480 --> 3:53:51.160
<v Speaker 18>grabbed because they immediately turned out to be US citizens.

3:53:52.000 --> 3:53:56.920
<v Speaker 18>Kurst has denied that they detained them and said that,

3:53:57.000 --> 3:54:01.960
<v Speaker 18>oh no, actually we just separate raided them for their protection.

3:54:02.120 --> 3:54:05.360
<v Speaker 18>What we did the operation like that doesn't seem to

3:54:05.360 --> 3:54:08.840
<v Speaker 18>be true from everything that we've heard from witnesses the scene.

3:54:09.520 --> 3:54:14.200
<v Speaker 18>But yeah, this is you know, these are the way

3:54:14.200 --> 3:54:16.440
<v Speaker 18>that these enforcement operations, the way that these raids have

3:54:16.600 --> 3:54:19.480
<v Speaker 18>gone is that the beginning of a major operation cycle

3:54:19.520 --> 3:54:22.280
<v Speaker 18>is turned into these press circuits for people like Chursy Nome.

3:54:22.800 --> 3:54:25.320
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, GNOME's been on a few raids like this. Has

3:54:25.360 --> 3:54:27.640
<v Speaker 6>been a consistent thing, right that these raids are a

3:54:27.720 --> 3:54:30.560
<v Speaker 6>content creation exercise. As much as the law enforcement word.

3:54:30.720 --> 3:54:33.480
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and it excuse to dress up all that good stuff.

3:54:33.560 --> 3:54:35.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and you know it. It's this.

3:54:35.400 --> 3:54:38.560
<v Speaker 18>It's just like reveling both in this, you know, in

3:54:38.600 --> 3:54:41.800
<v Speaker 18>this sort of like like constructed like I'm holding an

3:54:41.800 --> 3:54:44.040
<v Speaker 18>Air fifteen lookout tough I am image, and also just

3:54:44.160 --> 3:54:47.160
<v Speaker 18>in the cruelty and the suffering in the same way

3:54:47.200 --> 3:54:51.400
<v Speaker 18>that the Alligator Alcatraz stuff was. But it's worth noting

3:54:51.480 --> 3:54:53.480
<v Speaker 18>that most of the raids have not looked like this.

3:54:53.760 --> 3:54:55.760
<v Speaker 18>Like this, this was a raid where like, you know,

3:54:55.880 --> 3:54:59.920
<v Speaker 18>people were woken up in this basically this random ste

3:55:00.640 --> 3:55:02.800
<v Speaker 18>at five in the morning because they heard an explosion

3:55:02.840 --> 3:55:05.080
<v Speaker 18>and ice had blocked off all of their streets and

3:55:05.080 --> 3:55:08.120
<v Speaker 18>their armored vehicles and helicopters. Most of what they've been

3:55:08.240 --> 3:55:12.040
<v Speaker 18>are not like that. They've been following the pattern established

3:55:12.040 --> 3:55:15.520
<v Speaker 18>in LA of very very rapid raids to avoid rep

3:55:15.560 --> 3:55:20.480
<v Speaker 18>response networks, targeting a combination of houses, job sites, and

3:55:20.760 --> 3:55:24.840
<v Speaker 18>places like home depot. And you know, we talked about

3:55:24.960 --> 3:55:27.560
<v Speaker 18>this beginning a couple of weeks ago. We talked about

3:55:27.600 --> 3:55:31.320
<v Speaker 18>how these people are being deployed largely from this naval

3:55:31.360 --> 3:55:34.520
<v Speaker 18>base that is hours out from the city, right and

3:55:34.560 --> 3:55:36.840
<v Speaker 18>that's part of why these a lot of these raids,

3:55:36.840 --> 3:55:39.000
<v Speaker 18>although they have been going to the South Side, which

3:55:39.040 --> 3:55:42.240
<v Speaker 18>is significantly far away, but a lot of these raids

3:55:42.280 --> 3:55:44.840
<v Speaker 18>have been in places like Elgin that are further north

3:55:44.920 --> 3:55:48.600
<v Speaker 18>and are more outlined because they are closer to this

3:55:48.760 --> 3:55:52.280
<v Speaker 18>naval base than the core of the city of Chicago,

3:55:53.080 --> 3:55:55.720
<v Speaker 18>and it's easier to do there because there's less resistance.

3:55:55.840 --> 3:55:57.760
<v Speaker 18>There's been a bunch of raids in Elgin.

3:55:58.000 --> 3:55:58.640
<v Speaker 7>They took.

3:56:00.080 --> 3:56:03.480
<v Speaker 18>Didn't from a community college. They've just been dragging people

3:56:03.520 --> 3:56:06.880
<v Speaker 18>from their homes and workplaces. There was a very very

3:56:07.440 --> 3:56:10.000
<v Speaker 18>well publicized raid in Naperville, which is another sort of

3:56:10.160 --> 3:56:13.480
<v Speaker 18>outlying suburb, where they'd grabbed people who are like fixing

3:56:13.520 --> 3:56:14.240
<v Speaker 18>someone's roof.

3:56:14.600 --> 3:56:17.000
<v Speaker 6>Was that the one where people remained on the roof?

3:56:17.280 --> 3:56:19.680
<v Speaker 6>Yeah some time? Yeah, okay, yeah.

3:56:19.560 --> 3:56:24.160
<v Speaker 18>Yeah, really horrible seeing people are extremely pissed off. There's

3:56:24.200 --> 3:56:26.440
<v Speaker 18>another story that I's gotten very very little coverage that

3:56:26.560 --> 3:56:30.000
<v Speaker 18>was horrifying in Displans, which is the suburb just north

3:56:30.040 --> 3:56:34.320
<v Speaker 18>of O'Hare, where ice agents and masks did a very

3:56:34.400 --> 3:56:36.360
<v Speaker 18>very standard thing that they've been doing. You know, this

3:56:36.440 --> 3:56:38.240
<v Speaker 18>is I mean a kind of standard ice tactic where

3:56:38.960 --> 3:56:41.680
<v Speaker 18>they wait for people to get back into a truck,

3:56:41.720 --> 3:56:44.400
<v Speaker 18>and then they block the truck off with their trucks

3:56:44.440 --> 3:56:46.720
<v Speaker 18>to prevent it from leaving. Yeah, and I'm going to

3:56:46.800 --> 3:56:49.600
<v Speaker 18>read a CBS report of what happened next because I

3:56:49.600 --> 3:56:52.000
<v Speaker 18>think it's important to understand what it is actually like

3:56:52.080 --> 3:56:55.960
<v Speaker 18>for these people. Edgar, who's one of the people who

3:56:56.160 --> 3:56:59.440
<v Speaker 18>was in the car, said that when the agent originally

3:56:59.440 --> 3:57:02.040
<v Speaker 18>came to the path passenger door, he tried holding the

3:57:02.040 --> 3:57:05.240
<v Speaker 18>door closed, preventing him from opening it. He said at

3:57:05.280 --> 3:57:08.280
<v Speaker 18>the time that he and his family had no idea

3:57:08.320 --> 3:57:11.800
<v Speaker 18>who was at the vehicle, and everyone was scared. When

3:57:11.800 --> 3:57:14.560
<v Speaker 18>the agent tried opening the door, Edgar said he was

3:57:14.640 --> 3:57:17.600
<v Speaker 18>tased in the face. That's when he told everyone in

3:57:17.600 --> 3:57:20.400
<v Speaker 18>the truck to run for their lives. Despite being a

3:57:20.480 --> 3:57:24.080
<v Speaker 18>US citizen, they ran out of fear. So what's happening

3:57:24.080 --> 3:57:27.920
<v Speaker 18>here is there's these two brothers and their dad who

3:57:27.960 --> 3:57:32.120
<v Speaker 18>is undocumented. The two brothers were born in Chicago, and

3:57:32.920 --> 3:57:36.120
<v Speaker 18>they block off this car. They show up in masks.

3:57:36.320 --> 3:57:38.360
<v Speaker 18>The people in the car have absolutely no idea who

3:57:38.360 --> 3:57:41.440
<v Speaker 18>they are, and when they try to not get their

3:57:41.440 --> 3:57:44.160
<v Speaker 18>car broken into, they tase this guy who was an

3:57:44.160 --> 3:57:46.920
<v Speaker 18>American citizen in the face. He has to go to

3:57:46.960 --> 3:57:50.560
<v Speaker 18>the hospital because they tased him in the face, right, Yeah,

3:57:51.040 --> 3:57:55.440
<v Speaker 18>And there are stories like this, this is a particularly

3:57:55.480 --> 3:57:57.240
<v Speaker 18>bad one, but there are stories like the rest of

3:57:57.280 --> 3:57:59.680
<v Speaker 18>the raids that we've been talking about every single day

3:58:00.480 --> 3:58:04.160
<v Speaker 18>in Chicago that do not break containments at all. In

3:58:04.200 --> 3:58:07.960
<v Speaker 18>a country that is literally entirely just talking about Charlie Kirk.

3:58:08.440 --> 3:58:11.200
<v Speaker 18>There are people being dragged from their homes, there are

3:58:11.200 --> 3:58:13.560
<v Speaker 18>people being dragged from their fucking places of work, They're

3:58:13.600 --> 3:58:18.400
<v Speaker 18>being dragged from their schools. And this is just what

3:58:18.600 --> 3:58:23.960
<v Speaker 18>the US is right now now, as fucking unbelievably bleak

3:58:24.080 --> 3:58:28.200
<v Speaker 18>as this is right, and people are terrified, but they're

3:58:28.200 --> 3:58:31.560
<v Speaker 18>also angry, and people are also organizing, and as we

3:58:31.600 --> 3:58:34.080
<v Speaker 18>saw in LA, people are forming rapid response networks and

3:58:34.080 --> 3:58:37.080
<v Speaker 18>they're showing up in places that I never would have thought.

3:58:38.040 --> 3:58:40.600
<v Speaker 18>I mean, maybe there'd be NGO networks, but they're doing

3:58:40.640 --> 3:58:44.080
<v Speaker 18>things in places I just wouldn't have thought possible. I

3:58:44.080 --> 3:58:45.760
<v Speaker 18>want to close this by there was a report on

3:58:45.800 --> 3:58:51.040
<v Speaker 18>Thursday by Sean Molkay, who's the news editor at The Reader,

3:58:51.080 --> 3:58:54.760
<v Speaker 18>which is a good independent outlet in Chicago. So I

3:58:55.000 --> 3:58:59.040
<v Speaker 18>tried the same tactic of blockading someone's truck and grabbing

3:58:59.080 --> 3:59:04.120
<v Speaker 18>them in a summer called Wheaton, Illinois, and a bunch

3:59:04.120 --> 3:59:06.400
<v Speaker 18>of people when they tried to do this smash and

3:59:06.440 --> 3:59:09.080
<v Speaker 18>grab of this person's truck, a whole bunch of people

3:59:09.120 --> 3:59:12.000
<v Speaker 18>showed up and confronted them and screamed at them and

3:59:12.040 --> 3:59:14.440
<v Speaker 18>recorded them. And this caused the Ice people to take

3:59:14.440 --> 3:59:17.320
<v Speaker 18>off and run away without attending the person. And this

3:59:17.440 --> 3:59:19.720
<v Speaker 18>is a stunning development if you know anything about either

3:59:19.800 --> 3:59:24.360
<v Speaker 18>Chicago Land or evangelicalism. Wheaton is the home of Wheaton College,

3:59:24.800 --> 3:59:27.000
<v Speaker 18>which is like it's one of like the three big

3:59:27.080 --> 3:59:31.000
<v Speaker 18>right wing like Christian universities alongside like Brigham Young and Liberty.

3:59:31.040 --> 3:59:32.640
<v Speaker 3>This is wild.

3:59:32.880 --> 3:59:35.680
<v Speaker 18>This was one of the home bases of power of

3:59:35.720 --> 3:59:39.320
<v Speaker 18>the Bush era moral majority, right like Wheaton College is

3:59:39.320 --> 3:59:42.320
<v Speaker 18>a school where dancing was illegal until two thousand and three,

3:59:42.480 --> 3:59:45.120
<v Speaker 18>like they abandoned dancing for one hundred and forty three years.

3:59:45.840 --> 3:59:48.880
<v Speaker 18>And if people in Wheaton are showing up to do

3:59:48.960 --> 3:59:53.680
<v Speaker 18>direct actions against Ice, these people, they're cooked right, They

3:59:53.720 --> 3:59:55.440
<v Speaker 18>will be able to do a significant amount of damage.

3:59:55.440 --> 3:59:57.160
<v Speaker 18>They have been doing significant amount of damage. We've just

3:59:57.200 --> 3:59:58.960
<v Speaker 18>been talking about the amount of damage they've been doing.

3:59:59.320 --> 4:00:02.000
<v Speaker 18>But if this is what is happening in places that

4:00:02.160 --> 4:00:07.320
<v Speaker 18>used to be moral majority strongholds right, places that produce

4:00:07.400 --> 4:00:10.720
<v Speaker 18>some of the most famous like Christian right wingers, who

4:00:10.800 --> 4:00:15.520
<v Speaker 18>shaped an entire half century of American politics. If people

4:00:15.720 --> 4:00:18.840
<v Speaker 18>there are showing up and doing direct actions against eisen Winning,

4:00:19.320 --> 4:00:24.120
<v Speaker 18>things are fucking changing. People are radicalizing very quickly. And

4:00:24.560 --> 4:00:27.240
<v Speaker 18>despite everything that's been happening by all of the kirkstuff,

4:00:27.280 --> 4:00:31.520
<v Speaker 18>Trump's pulling keeps getting worse and worse. And I think

4:00:31.560 --> 4:00:34.520
<v Speaker 18>this is a good reminder that, like these people, part

4:00:34.560 --> 4:00:36.520
<v Speaker 18>of the reason they're moving so fast and so hard

4:00:36.560 --> 4:00:39.440
<v Speaker 18>right now is because they know they are staggeringly unpopular

4:00:39.880 --> 4:00:42.920
<v Speaker 18>and they have to get their crack down and they

4:00:42.920 --> 4:00:45.520
<v Speaker 18>have to build a political and legal power right now

4:00:45.920 --> 4:00:49.480
<v Speaker 18>before it gets even worse for them, and they're terrified that,

4:00:49.720 --> 4:00:53.640
<v Speaker 18>you know, if there are a thousand Wheatns, if enough

4:00:53.640 --> 4:00:58.760
<v Speaker 18>people resist them, they don't have the capacity to stop them.

4:00:58.920 --> 4:01:02.240
<v Speaker 18>Because everybody fucking hates these people and they hate what

4:01:02.280 --> 4:01:06.440
<v Speaker 18>they're doing. Nobody actually likes, you know, shock troopers showing

4:01:06.520 --> 4:01:08.640
<v Speaker 18>up in the neighborhoods and dragging the people they love

4:01:08.680 --> 4:01:12.560
<v Speaker 18>away from them. And it's going to be a really,

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<v Speaker 18>really long and hard battle but the fact that people

4:01:16.720 --> 4:01:19.280
<v Speaker 18>are fighting in places where that would have been unimaginable

4:01:19.320 --> 4:01:23.920
<v Speaker 18>even ten years ago is I think at least a

4:01:23.920 --> 4:01:26.000
<v Speaker 18>small sign of hope in the darkness.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that's probably where we ought to end. Is

4:01:30.480 --> 4:01:32.160
<v Speaker 2>a small sign of hope in the darkness.

4:01:33.120 --> 4:01:35.080
<v Speaker 6>If you would like to contact us, you can do

4:01:35.200 --> 4:01:39.200
<v Speaker 6>so by using a proton mail email address cool Zone

4:01:39.240 --> 4:01:43.600
<v Speaker 6>Tips at proton dot me. It's encrypted if you use

4:01:43.640 --> 4:01:45.320
<v Speaker 6>an encrypted email address to send.

4:01:46.120 --> 4:01:47.360
<v Speaker 3>We reported the news.

4:01:48.560 --> 4:01:49.560
<v Speaker 7>We reported the news.

4:01:56.320 --> 4:01:59.480
<v Speaker 2>Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

4:01:59.560 --> 4:02:01.480
<v Speaker 2>from now until the heat death of the Universe.

4:02:02.200 --> 4:02:04.720
<v Speaker 1>It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

4:02:04.880 --> 4:02:07.960
<v Speaker 1>For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

4:02:08.040 --> 4:02:11.600
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<v Speaker 1>You can now find sources for It Could Happen here,

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<v Speaker 1>listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.