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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions. Welcome back to it

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Speaker 2: could happen here, a podcast about it happening here, it

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Speaker 2: in this case being an incredibly political shooting, and the

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Speaker 2: thing that's happening Garrison and I wading through a river

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Speaker 2: of disinformation and fever dreams to try and pull out

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Speaker 2: some degree of truth. And what is a very truth

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Speaker 2: light environment right now? Garrison, how are you doing?

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Speaker 3: Truth fluid? Certainly truth fluid.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a better way to phrase it.

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Speaker 3: I have a growing headache that I think grows larger

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Speaker 3: by the second.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, will not cease.

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Speaker 3: I guess you should first discuss how the shooter has

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Speaker 3: been identified and arrested. Yes, we are recording this Friday

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Speaker 3: evening for context.

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Speaker 2: Yes, early evening there will be more information on the

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Speaker 2: shooter and on the shooting. By the time you listen

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Speaker 2: to this, we may include an update at the end,

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Speaker 2: but we will be talking about stuff that is timeless,

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Speaker 2: as in things that we know are false or true

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Speaker 2: at the moment, and just generally our ethics on when

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Speaker 2: do we feel confident saying a shooting or other kind

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Speaker 2: of attack was left wing or right wing or something else,

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Speaker 2: like when do we feel confident in making those judgments

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Speaker 2: and why? Because those are really relevant topics and a

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Speaker 2: lot of people just kind of go with what seems

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Speaker 2: right based on the flow of info there hearing, which

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Speaker 2: is how disinformation spreads. So the last time we would

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Speaker 2: have talked about this would be the ed episode that

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Speaker 2: came out. What was that Friday, Yeah, Thursday night, Friday morning,

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Speaker 2: And basically right after we covered that early in the

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Speaker 2: morning on Friday, President Trump was doing a media appearance

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Speaker 2: on Fox News and he was the person who announced

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Speaker 2: that they had a suspect in custody. Who were pretty

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Speaker 2: sure was it Obviously, since the FBI had given the

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Speaker 2: wrong accused the wrong person at least twice of doing this,

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Speaker 2: people weren't sure if that meant anything. But it did

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Speaker 2: come out very soon after that that a young man

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Speaker 2: had essentially confessed to his father, who negotiated him turning

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Speaker 2: himself into the authorities. This young man is Tyler Robinson.

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Speaker 2: He was born and raised in Utah. I think, as

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Speaker 2: far as we know, I woke up in the middle

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Speaker 2: of the night, right as his name came out. I

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Speaker 2: don't know why. It was weird, and so I just

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Speaker 2: immediately started looking at the social media for his family,

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Speaker 2: because I was able to find his mom and his

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Speaker 2: dad's Facebook.

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Speaker 3: The Lord works in mysterious ways.

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Speaker 2: So I can tell you, and this is something you'll

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Speaker 2: find in the reporting. He came from a pretty normal

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Speaker 2: Utah family, politically conservative. That's based on articles I've seen,

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Speaker 2: we interviewing people who know the family, and just based

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Speaker 2: on publicly available information.

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Speaker 3: Grunt style T shirt wearing father right.

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Speaker 2: He dressed as Donald Trump. It's seemingly in a positive

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Speaker 2: fashion for Halloween one year. His family were pretty a

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Speaker 2: very normal Utah family. I found posts where they took

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Speaker 2: pictures of them camping with their RVs, going out hunting.

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Speaker 2: He was hunting from a young age. He had access

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Speaker 2: to firearms from a young age, including assault style weapons

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Speaker 2: from a young age. Again, very common for Utah, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: his family hunted and fished, and he seems to have

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Speaker 2: been a very normal kid in that regard. Kind of

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Speaker 2: the thing that I found when I was doing my

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Speaker 2: first dive into this that I thought was worthwhile, and

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Speaker 2: the one thing that I really pulled out of that

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Speaker 2: to share with people was in twenty eighteen, he dressed

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Speaker 2: as a meme for Halloween, and the specific meme was

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Speaker 2: this meme that is not inherently political, but is one

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Speaker 2: that this group of far right people who follow a

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Speaker 2: guy named Nick Fuint has called the groupers like, which

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean that he was signaling to that, because again,

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Speaker 2: like all of this stuff, it's not just the gropers

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Speaker 2: who like this squatting slav guy meme. That's what he

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Speaker 2: dressed as. If you've seen this meme of like the

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Speaker 2: squatting Slavic guy in a tracksuit with a cigarette and

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Speaker 2: a beer, he dressed like that for Halloween. There's a

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Speaker 2: groper version of that squatting slav guy.

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Speaker 3: Well, no, there's a Pepe version.

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Speaker 2: You're right, You're right, I need to be precise. There's

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Speaker 2: a Pepe version, and it is a meme that you

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Speaker 2: can find shared in groper spaces, which again does not

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Speaker 2: mean it's a groper meme, and I've seen that mistakenly

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Speaker 2: and really tried to push back on This does not

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Speaker 2: mean he definitely was, but it doesn't mean that he was.

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Speaker 2: He was a very online kid, and he traveled in

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Speaker 2: spaces where he would have had access and would have

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Speaker 2: been aware of grouper's and that would have been one

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Speaker 2: chunk of the online fever swamps that he would have

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Speaker 2: been connected to and he would have had access to.

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Speaker 2: We don't yet know at the time we're recording this

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Speaker 2: what he believed or what his motivation was. The rething

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Speaker 2: I thought was relevant to publisher this is that, like, okay,

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Speaker 2: we are dealing with an extremely online weirdo.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: And immediately after that it came out exactly what was

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Speaker 2: carved onto the bullets that he had shot. And this

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Speaker 2: was relevant in part because yesterday, the first day of

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Speaker 2: news that we had about the bullets, the immediate claim

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Speaker 2: that was leaked to Stephen Crowder through a source of

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Speaker 2: his in the ATF was that transgender symbols had been

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Speaker 2: carved onto the bullets. That was not accurate. If you

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Speaker 2: want some levity from this whole scene, listening to the sheriff,

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Speaker 2: Oh God giving the press conference, read the things he

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Speaker 2: carved onto these bullets.

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Speaker 3: We should just include some of those clips here.

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Speaker 2: We'll put it in here.

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Speaker 4: Inscriptions on a fired casing read notices bulge's capital owo,

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Speaker 4: what's this question mark. Inscriptions on the three unfired casings

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Speaker 4: read hey fascist, exclamation point, catch exclamation point, up arrow symbol,

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Speaker 4: right arrow and symbol, and three down arrow symbols. A

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Speaker 4: second unfired casing red, oh belichow, belichow, belichow chow chow.

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Speaker 4: And a third on fired casing red. If you read this,

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Speaker 4: you are gay, lmao.

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Speaker 2: Just absolutely outstanding stuff. I mean, hearing a law enforcement

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Speaker 2: officer say that is beautiful. It reminds me of having

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Speaker 2: to explain bitcoin to all of the elderly detectives in

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Speaker 2: West LA when I got a death threat against me.

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Speaker 2: But this is like extremely online gamer nonsense, gay right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, average white male over the online gamer at this point,

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Speaker 3: that's what it looks like. It could have developed in

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Speaker 3: a far right direction, could be developed in a far

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Speaker 3: left direction. Could be an ironic centrist. It could be

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Speaker 3: any number of things. There's no single clear indication.

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Speaker 2: Could be someone who doesn't map easily onto any of

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Speaker 2: these traditional political compasses, Like, we don't know at this point.

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Speaker 2: And what's kind of important that and the reason what

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Speaker 2: I thought was really important to get out to people

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Speaker 2: is that there will always be terrorist attacks from a

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Speaker 2: wh It's never even if you want it to just

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Speaker 2: be right wingers. It's never just right wingers who do

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Speaker 2: domestic terrorism. That's never been the case, and it never

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Speaker 2: will be the case. And one of the things that

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Speaker 2: we're seeing and we will increasingly see, is that even

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Speaker 2: while there will be varying political motivations behind different attacks,

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Speaker 2: the language that people who are carrying out attacks like

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Speaker 2: this use is all kind of coming to a point together. Right,

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Speaker 2: They all have more in common with the way they message.

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Speaker 2: The christ Church shooter and this kid both found the

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Speaker 2: need to put memes onto the weapons they were using.

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Speaker 3: Inscribe the internet exactly onto tools of killing, mechanisms of death.

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Speaker 2: But literally inscribing the Internet onto tools of death. That

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Speaker 2: is a thing both of them did. Yeah, maybe for

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Speaker 2: wildly different reasons. Maybe this guy was coming from a

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Speaker 2: left wing perspective, right, we just don't know.

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Speaker 3: But this is where it's all coalescing around.

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Speaker 2: And I think that is really important to note, right,

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Speaker 2: the way that that happens. Now again, we wanted to

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Speaker 2: talk about the thing that we can definitely say is disinformation.

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Speaker 2: And one of the first counters to the whole transgender

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Speaker 2: symbols carved onto bullets that came out was people putting

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Speaker 2: up pictures of there's a Turkish manufacturer called Turan and

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Speaker 2: they make bullets and their logo on the back of

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Speaker 2: a bullet. If you're not a gun person, every bullet

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Speaker 2: has the logo of the manufacturer and the name of

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Speaker 2: the caliber stamped onto the back, right, I mean, just

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Speaker 2: for basic safety reasons, right, or nearly every bullet twenty

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Speaker 2: two is a little too small. But like if you've

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Speaker 2: got like a round a nine millimeter or around a

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Speaker 2: five five six or around a thirty at six, which

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Speaker 2: was the caliber he used, apparently on the back of it,

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Speaker 2: you'll see the name of the manufacturer and then the

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Speaker 2: caliber stamped in there, right, and so on. The back

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Speaker 2: of Turan bullets is stamped tr in. And so people

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Speaker 2: started posting online this must be why they thought what

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Speaker 2: they thought was transgender, that like they saw a Turan

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Speaker 2: bullet and assumed it was trans and We know that

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Speaker 2: wasn't the case because this was a thirty out six

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Speaker 2: and Taran does not make thirty out six ammunition. We

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Speaker 2: also know this was the case because they have now

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Speaker 2: come out and said what was written on the bullet

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Speaker 2: and what was mistaken for transgender air routs and the

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Speaker 2: thing that was mistaken for transgender arrows was a reference

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Speaker 2: to the video game hell Divers.

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Speaker 3: A fucking hell Divers meme. Yes again, very gamer online kid.

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Speaker 3: Side note, it's not completely clear which bullet casing was

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Speaker 3: attributed to transgender ideology. It could be an interpretation of

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Speaker 3: the arrows, or it could be the notices bulge oh

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Speaker 3: woe casing and on that note, notices bulge oh Woe

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Speaker 3: is not a groper meme. It's a meme making fun

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Speaker 3: of furry sex role playing, which predates the existence of

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Speaker 3: gropers by years, and as a meme has since been

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Speaker 3: reclaimed by furries and trans shit posters online or trans

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Speaker 3: only fans creators, or just trans people in general on

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Speaker 3: the Internet, many of which are also furries. But now

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Speaker 3: we have various types of opposing or overlapping groups of

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Speaker 3: people who use this meme online. It's not a right

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Speaker 3: wing meme just making fun of furries. It is also

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Speaker 3: a meme used by people on the left and furries

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Speaker 3: on the left, and probably furries on the right too,

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Speaker 3: and non furries. It's just a general internet meme. It's

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Speaker 3: a Reddit tiar joke. Now, I will say the hell

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Speaker 3: Diver's meme also gives us kind of our not a

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Speaker 3: clear look, but a look at a possible political motivation. Now,

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Speaker 3: it could be ironic in use, it could be just

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Speaker 3: referential in use. But the full hell Diver's referenced bullet

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Speaker 3: reads hey fascist catch, followed by the hell Diver's dpad

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Speaker 3: input for the five hundred kilogram bomb right, which is

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Speaker 3: the arrows.

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Speaker 2: That's the down arrows.

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Speaker 3: I think up arrow side arrow, down down down arrow,

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Speaker 3: which some ADS agent or someone initially thought could have

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Speaker 3: been a reference to the transgender symbol or the three

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Speaker 3: arrows symbol. Coupled with the hey fascist section of that reference.

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Speaker 3: The hell Diver's video game does used fascist as a term,

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Speaker 3: but this also could be a more general political reference,

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Speaker 3: either ironic or sincere. By referring to Charlie Kirk as

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Speaker 3: a fascist. We do not know the actual and intentionality

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Speaker 3: behind this reference. Yet One thing that's possibly tied it

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Speaker 3: to anti fascism is that another bullet reads bella Chow,

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Speaker 3: bella Chow, Chow Chow, misspelling bella Chow, which is a

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Speaker 3: popular anti fascist anthem, though the song has more recently

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Speaker 3: also been used by groipers and fans of Hearts of

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Speaker 3: Iron four, a diverse political budge. One could say we

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Speaker 3: have talked about bella Chow on this show before. In fact,

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Speaker 3: we've used bella Chow on multiple cool Zone media shows.

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Speaker 3: It was originally an Italian anti fascist song that has

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Speaker 3: since been adopted by anarchists and anti fascists all around

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Speaker 3: the globe. I've heard Bellachow get played on loudspeakers countless

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Speaker 3: times at anti fascist events on the West Coast as

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Speaker 3: well as anarchist events on the East Coast. Though the

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Speaker 3: song has since gained a whole other life through pop

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Speaker 3: culture popularization, with EDM and like dubstep style remixes going viral.

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Speaker 3: Most normi's probably first heard it on the Netflix show

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Speaker 3: Money Heist and has been adopted into gamer culture via

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Speaker 3: its use in Far Cry six and Hearts of Iron four. Again.

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Speaker 2: Could be an anti fascist reference, could be video game shit,

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Speaker 2: could be graper shit. There's just not enough to say

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Speaker 2: at this point.

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Speaker 3: Or it could be could be a centrist, a political

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Speaker 3: hodgepodge of that has resulted in this nihilistic outburst of violence,

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Speaker 3: similar to some of these like TCC school shootings. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: we don't know, but there's currently a lot of people

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Speaker 3: on the right who thinks it's an ANTIFA super soldier leftist,

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Speaker 3: a lot of people on the left who think this

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Speaker 3: is a Nick Fuentes piled groper. And either of those

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Speaker 3: could be true, but neither could be true. It could

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Speaker 3: be a much weirder third. We don't have direct evidence

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Speaker 3: to support a full reading of either of those things yet.

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Speaker 2: And this is when I have seen people get kind

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Speaker 2: of heated about being corrected on particularly the bullet thing.

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Speaker 2: And I think the reason why is that it seems

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Speaker 2: it seems like such a smoking gotcha. Of course they'd

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Speaker 2: be this stupid you really want it to be true.

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Speaker 2: And it's when you feel like that about a case

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Speaker 2: like this, about an attack like this, that like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I really want this to be true. It would be

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Speaker 2: really satisfying if this was the thing that had happened.

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Speaker 2: That you need to be most hesitant to embrace that,

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Speaker 2: right I think that's that's what I'd say.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, if it's too good to be true or it

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Speaker 3: feels too convenient, you should introspect greatly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Robert and Garrison will be right back. But first

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Speaker 2: here's some ads and we're back.

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Speaker 3: There's been other things that is kind of influencing this

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Speaker 3: political uncertainty. A reporter for the Young Turks only the

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Speaker 3: most reparatable news outlet, has claimed on Twitter on Friday afternoon. Quote,

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Speaker 3: according to Utah officials and police interviews with his family,

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Speaker 3: Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough.

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Speaker 3: Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes. G O piers are now

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Speaker 3: scrubbing ex posts about DEM's faster than doj eRASS Trump's

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Speaker 3: name from in Epstein files. Unquote. Yeah, this claim from

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Speaker 3: David Schuster the report of the Young Turks unsubstantiated. Yes,

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Speaker 3: but it's being spread as as exact fact, and it

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Speaker 3: seems like this claim is most likely misquoting and editorializing

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Speaker 3: from a statement a family member gave to police, which

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Speaker 3: has been described by the governor as a family member

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Speaker 3: and the shooter discussing Charlie Kirk's upcoming visit to UVU campus.

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Speaker 3: They talked about why they didn't like him and viewpoints

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Speaker 3: he held. The family member also stated Kirk was full

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Speaker 3: of hate and spreading hate unquote, So that has been

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Speaker 3: altered and shifted and interpreted in a lot of different

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Speaker 3: ways to say that the shooter stated Kirk was full

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Speaker 3: of hate and spreading hate, even though that's not what

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Speaker 3: this interview segment necessarily means. Just that quote unquote, they

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Speaker 3: meaning the family member and the shooter didn't like Kirk,

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Speaker 3: And that's really all you can extrapolate from that piece

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Speaker 3: of this police statement. But it's been spreading editorialized to

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Speaker 3: me in a wild collection of different things. Yeah, including

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Speaker 3: by people on the right who are interpreting this statement

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Speaker 3: as evidence that the shooter has said that Kirk was

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Speaker 3: spreading hate, even though that's not actually clear from this

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Speaker 3: interview either. No, it says the family member stated Charlie

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Speaker 3: Kirk was full of hate and spreading hate, not the shooter.

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Speaker 2: And likewise, one of the things I'm seeing spread a

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Speaker 2: lot is a claimed voter registration for Robinson.

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Speaker 3: A Tyler Robinson in Utah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, again, there's a lot of them, a.

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Speaker 3: Lot of Tyler Robinsonson in Utah.

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Speaker 2: The one that is spreading the most, has a voter

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Speaker 2: registration date of one to one two thousand and one,

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Speaker 2: which he just simply couldn't have. Now that said, people

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Speaker 2: pointed out that Utah's voter registration shit is bad, and

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Speaker 2: this does seem like a placeholder that someone put in.

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Speaker 2: But also the county's not right because he didn't live

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Speaker 2: in Lehigh, Utah, and that's where this is listed for.

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying this guy definitely wasn't. He may have

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Speaker 2: been a registered Republican, but it looks like we don't

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Speaker 2: have the information to say that yet. Likewise, there's an

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Speaker 2: article that was published recently in The Guardian where they

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Speaker 2: talked to someone who was a friend of his in

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Speaker 2: high school who said that he was like the only

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Speaker 2: leftist in a family of Republicans and was angry about it.

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Speaker 3: The exact quote was that Robinson was quote pretty left

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Speaker 3: on everything, the only member of his family that was

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Speaker 3: really leftist. The rest of his family was very hard

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Speaker 3: Republican yep. And that Robinson would quote always just be

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Speaker 3: renting and arguing about them.

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Speaker 2: And it does look CNN is saying that they have

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Speaker 2: found Tyler Robbinson's actual voter registration data, and CNN says

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Speaker 2: he's registered as unaffiliated with a political party and is

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Speaker 2: listed as an active, which means he has not voted

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Speaker 2: in either of the two last general elections. Sure, so again,

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Speaker 2: there's just nothing clear we can.

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Speaker 3: Say, right, Yeah, it's hard to take both this young

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Speaker 3: Turks reporter and a high school friend from four years ago.

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Speaker 3: Not great sources for someone's current political outlook, absolutely not

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Speaker 3: and contradictory. So it's really really unclear. Also, this is

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Speaker 3: just one friend. You would want more than one source

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Speaker 3: to substantiate this claim. And perhaps by Sunday night, when

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Speaker 3: this airs, there will will be more information. Quick update

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Speaker 3: on this. Literally minutes after Robert and I recorded, the

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Speaker 3: Guardian retracted those quotes from the shooter's alleged high school estimate,

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Speaker 3: which described the shooter as a leftist. The source contacted

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Speaker 3: the Guardian again and said that they could not accurately

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Speaker 3: remember the details of their relationship in high school. So

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Speaker 3: the Guardian has pulled those quotes. But certainly right now,

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Speaker 3: the way people have latched on to narratives to satisfy

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Speaker 3: the current emotional turmoil that people are in because of

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Speaker 3: the hyper reality around this shooting and the possible consequences

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Speaker 3: it could mean for the fate of this whole country.

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Speaker 3: I understand why people are quick to really hook their

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Speaker 3: version of reality onto these claims. Yes, but currently there

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Speaker 3: is no clear version of reality.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I just want to caution people if you

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Speaker 2: care about knowing reality yourself. And there's two different questions here, right,

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Speaker 2: what is useful, what is valuable, what like protects people?

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Speaker 2: And then what gets us closer to the truth. Right.

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Speaker 2: Part of why as soon as I found that photo

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Speaker 2: of him dressed as a meme for Halloween and recognize

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Speaker 2: the implications of it, I put it up there is

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Speaker 2: because I thought it was relevant that it said something

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Speaker 2: about his background, but also it got discussion and just

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Speaker 2: people bringing up how complicated this guy's background. Is it

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Speaker 2: a positive thing? Which was a got discussion away from

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Speaker 2: absolutely baseless allegations that this was a transgender terrorist attack

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Speaker 2: and all sorts, all the kind of shit that had

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Speaker 2: been spreading on the right, right, and that was valuable. However,

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Speaker 2: I've been really careful about not saying this guy is

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Speaker 2: a groy Berth, even though that sure would be convenient,

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Speaker 2: because again, at the time we're recording this. There's just

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Speaker 2: not that evidence. Every new fact that comes out about

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Speaker 2: this guy right now is wavering in this gray area

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Speaker 2: where you know, like I one of the other things

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Speaker 2: when I posted correcting the voter registration card, somebody posted like, okay,

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Speaker 2: but he donated to Trump's campaign. No, he did.

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Speaker 5: Not.

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Speaker 2: A different guy with his name donated to Donald Trump,

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Speaker 2: the Tyler Robinson, who is currently in custody for shooting

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Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk, has no record of federal election donations, per CNN. Right,

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Speaker 2: these are very convincing when you see them just sort

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Speaker 2: of sliding across your feed, and if you're not checking

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Speaker 2: up on every new thing you see, it feels like, obviously,

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Speaker 2: this guy's a right winger. Obviously he's a groper. I've

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Speaker 2: seen so many pieces of evidence when you actually haven't

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Speaker 2: seen any evidence at.

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Speaker 3: All, and even those two things can get compleated. Right,

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Speaker 3: Saying he's a groper is different than saying a right winger.

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Speaker 3: Right Like a groper is a very specific branch of

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Speaker 3: alt right slash far right community slash ideology revolving around

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Speaker 3: the America First streamer Nick Fuentes and a collection of

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Speaker 3: memes associated with this movement, which have historically beef with

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Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk for not being sufficiently to the right as

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Speaker 3: some more openly white premisest neo Nazis have been. This

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Speaker 3: beef between Fuentes and Kirk was largely dissolved after Kirk

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Speaker 3: started adopting more and more far I believes, and adopted

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Speaker 3: the great Replacement theory, which settled down the quote unquote

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Speaker 3: Groper war, which many people are assuming that this shooting

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Speaker 3: is a part of, with some groper Nick Fuentes fan

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Speaker 3: killing Charlie Kirk, possibly as a legitimate part of the

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Speaker 3: quote unquote Graper war, but also maybe just has like

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Speaker 3: an ironic mimetic act. So when you say Graper, that

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Speaker 3: should refer to a very specific thing, not necessarily just

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Speaker 3: this guy used right wing memes or these memes aren't

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Speaker 3: even right wing, but.

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Speaker 2: Like, no, it could be, but they're not inherently This.

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Speaker 3: Man could be, but they're not inherently nor are they

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Speaker 3: really the main use of this saying Haha, if you

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Speaker 3: read this, you are gay, could just be an average

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Speaker 3: overly online male right or on the internet. A lot

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Speaker 3: of people talk like that. A lot of gay people

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Speaker 3: talk like that. A lot of fashions people talk about

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Speaker 3: that is.

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Speaker 2: This homophobia or a twenty year old Right, it could

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Speaker 2: be either or Yeah, And we don't need to just

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Speaker 2: jump to one specific thing to build a singular narrative

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Speaker 2: when a fluid situation is still rapidly unfolding.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Not if again, you want to feel like and you

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Speaker 2: want to really be better than the other side, who

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Speaker 2: don't give a shit about the truth, who just care

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Speaker 2: about what's convenient and how many people they can get

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Speaker 2: to believe a convenient fact. Right, If you don't want

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Speaker 2: to be that kind of person, if you think that's bad,

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Speaker 2: and I do, and you do, and we all do

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Speaker 2: here at cool Zone, then you do kind of it

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Speaker 2: to yourself to care about stuff like this, even if

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Speaker 2: it's less convenient. By the way, if you're not an investigator,

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Speaker 2: you don't have to be delving into all this. It's

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Speaker 2: enough to just know the fact that I saw something

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Speaker 2: that looked like evidence this guy donated to a campaign.

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Speaker 2: Do I know that that's him? Do I absolutely know

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Speaker 2: that's him? Because it's possible multiple people have the same

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Speaker 2: name and some of them may have made a donation

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Speaker 2: or not. Right, don't just pash your eyes over stuff

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Speaker 2: like this and be like, all right, I've done all

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Speaker 2: I need to do, but do purchase from these advertisers

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Speaker 2: and we're back.

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Speaker 3: One other aspects that people's reaction to the shooting is demonstrating,

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Speaker 3: and we've seen this with other major events, major political events,

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Speaker 3: violent political events, past few years, is how this shows

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Speaker 3: a new fracturing of reality, because what eventually gets proven

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Speaker 3: about the shooter will probably be insignificant to the narratives

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Speaker 3: that people have already latched onto and have baked into

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Speaker 3: reality so far. And this conceptual splitting of reality is

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Speaker 3: going to fall squarely along some partisan in political lines.

435
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 3: Right conservatives will have a conception of the shooting which

436
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 3: differs heavily from the conception of the shooting held by

437
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 3: people on the left. Many people on the left are

438
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 3: going to believe that this shooter was a groper forever,

439
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 3: no matter what comes out in the next few weeks

440
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 3: to months, they will have in their version of reality

441
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 3: the idea that this guy was a groper. Similarly, people

442
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,640
Speaker 3: on the right are going to believe, to the fullest

443
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 3: and truest except of their hearts, that this guy was Antifa.

444
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 3: The actual reality is going to matter very little compared

445
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,640
Speaker 3: to these two beliefs, and the killing of Charlie Kirk

446
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:06,479
Speaker 3: has mimetic potential for several large, discreete and overlapping online groups.

447
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,199
Speaker 3: Many different online communities or groups could have encouraged or

448
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 3: influenced this killing. Anti fascists certainly could have Leftists, the

449
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 3: Groper right could have the four Chan right could have

450
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 3: terror Graham could have Yeah. All different and possibly overlapping

451
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:29,360
Speaker 3: communities in cell culture, Yeah, irony, poisoned centrists, j ragg, nihilists, accelerationists.

452
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 2: A normal garden variety Trumpist Republican who got angry over

453
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 2: Epstein stuff could have done this. There's no evidence of that.

454
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 2: I'm not saying, but I'm just saying, like there we

455
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 2: literally like it could be so many things at this point.

456
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,199
Speaker 3: And as satisfying as it is to just collapse this

457
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,439
Speaker 3: guy down to Antifa or Graper, it's very likely it

458
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,360
Speaker 3: could just be of third, weirder option, be the weirder option, right,

459
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 3: especially if you look at the nihilist trend of violence

460
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 3: that we've covered on this show, from TCC with ties

461
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 3: to other extremist groups, the multiple school shootings that have

462
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 3: used nostalgia and online references and references to previous shootings.

463
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 3: This could also line up with that framework. As Robert said,

464
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,199
Speaker 3: the inscription of memes onto tools of death is a

465
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 3: commonality across many of these gruesome acts of violence, from

466
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 3: christ Church to the Minneapolis school shooting just a month

467
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 3: ago to this assassination in September. Yeah.

468
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 2: Now, I think it is worth talking about how gropers

469
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 2: and how Nick Quintees himself has responded to this, because

470
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 2: that is telling, right totally, whether or not this guy

471
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 2: is a grower. A lot of gropers have publicly speculated

472
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 2: that he is their guy.

473
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 3: Or people on four Chan have speculated that he is

474
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 3: a graper, not your average four Chan user necessarily he's

475
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 3: a groper. I think this distinction is also important.

476
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 2: That is valid.

477
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 3: Yes, but yeah, you have seen a lot of people

478
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 3: on the right suspected this guy could be a groper. Certainly,

479
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 3: some gropers have themselves as well as four Chan users.

480
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 3: And Nick Fuintes does see a little bit nervous, but

481
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 3: he could be nervous for a lot of reasons.

482
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 2: But he put out a video.

483
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 3: I watched the entire Nick Fuentez stream last night.

484
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 2: Oh good, thank god, he was.

485
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 3: Acting a little bizarre, talking very philosophical, almost as if

486
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 3: he was like doing ketamine beforehand. Like he was talking

487
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 3: about how the structure of society, and like a spiritual

488
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 3: structure as well, will influence society to cause events to

489
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 3: happen which kind of stress test and demonstrate the direction

490
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 3: of society going. And he basically talked about the assassination

491
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 3: as one of these events of society unfolding itself to

492
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 3: determine what path is going to get taken. Our thing

493
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 3: is going to get more violent and more divisive, or

494
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 3: will this event alter reality's course in a more positive direction.

495
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 3: It was very interesting. He was talking about how he

496
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 3: feels some responsibility for the arc that this country has

497
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 3: gone on, how he's made a lot of mistakes when

498
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 3: he's younger. You could interpret this as trying to pick

499
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 3: up new supporters and try to fill in the Charlie

500
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 3: Kirk sized hole in the American right, but it's unclear.

501
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 3: He was talking quite emotionally about what the past few

502
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 3: years of his life have been.

503
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 2: And again making that comment that I want all of

504
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 2: my fans to stand down, etc. It's noteworthy of where Fuintes'

505
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 2: head is right yeah, and of the media environment. He

506
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 2: must exist in terms of like personally what comes to him.

507
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 2: And I'm very curious if I could, if I could

508
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 2: somehow know everything Nick Fuintees has been texted and been

509
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 2: texting over the last seventy two hours. God, that would

510
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 2: be fascinating.

511
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 3: He said. The people on the left were telling him

512
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 3: it's his responsibility to try to turn things down, and

513
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 3: he was kind of upset about that. And during the stream,

514
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 3: Fuintes was not discussing the shooter as if the shooter

515
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 3: was a groper, or even suspecting the shooter was a groper.

516
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 3: Nick telling his audience or whoever listening, to put down

517
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 3: your arms and not jump to quick emotional violence was

518
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 3: in reference to retaliatory violence against the left for their

519
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 3: killing of Charlie Kirk. That was the way Tuentes was

520
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 3: talking about the shooting through the course of this hour

521
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 3: long stream. It did not seem to me that he

522
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 3: was trying to cover his bases in case the shooter

523
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 3: was a groper. That wasn't how he was discussing it.

524
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 3: He certainly laid a lot of blame on the left,

525
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 3: and he seemed very scared about the direction of the country.

526
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 3: Someone showed up with a weapon to his house less

527
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,479
Speaker 3: than a year ago, and I think some of his

528
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 3: fear is absolutely genuine. It's not just trying to cover

529
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 3: his ass in case this guy turns out to be

530
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 3: a groper.

531
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 2: No, he's in danger because of the things he did.

532
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 2: He invited the danger into his life by being Nick Quintes,

533
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 2: but he is in danger.

534
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, it was. It was a very

535
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 3: odd stream. I tuned into nck Quentez every once in

536
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 3: a while just to keep track of what he was doing.

537
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 2: Like a healthy person.

538
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 3: It's my job. I know.

539
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 2: I woke up at four am to stock a murderer's

540
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 2: family on Facebook. Gearson.

541
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 3: So it was in the first fifteen minutes of the

542
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 3: stream where Nick discussed these more theoretical elements, how spiritual

543
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 3: or societal forces kind of use people as puppets, not

544
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 3: in a like fully NPC way, but as an evolutionary

545
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 3: method of charting the path of society. Nick then wents

546
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 3: to go on to discuss Charlie Kirk, how he's beefed

547
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 3: with Charlie in the past, how they've disagreed on nearly everything,

548
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 3: but goes on to say some nice things about Charlie

549
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 3: for the first time and then calls for everyone to

550
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 3: lay down their arms and now is not the time

551
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 3: to jump to quick action, We should reflect, et cetera,

552
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 3: et cetera. But in those first fifteen minutes, he talks

553
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 3: about like what this shooting means for American culture. And

554
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 3: I've been watching some of his other recent streams where

555
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 3: he's kind of been going after some of his fans

556
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 3: for just being completely like brain dead, just repeating racist

557
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 3: tropes with no real thought, just talking about Hitler in

558
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 3: this memified way, and it feels like he's sort of

559
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 3: reflecting on both what he's done with his life ever

560
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 3: since he's been a teenager and the world that he

561
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 3: has helped bring into being. He talks about never having

562
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 3: much of a actual sincere or participation in politics, how

563
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 3: it's always been so bombastic and mimetic, and it appears

564
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 3: as if he's kind of stuck doing this bit forever,

565
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 3: like he decided that this is what his life was

566
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 3: going to be as a teenager, and now he's in

567
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 3: his mid twenties, and from these other recent streams, it

568
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 3: feels like he's kind of fed up with how his

569
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 3: audience is just appearing completely mindless, very Larpee, endlessly repeating

570
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 3: Hitler references reflectionive racism, and how he's trapped himself in

571
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,719
Speaker 3: this political game. And a quote he said is that

572
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 3: this is not a game. This is life and death.

573
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 3: And as we've just seen, like this is literally life

574
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 3: and death. This is not just online memes anymore. We

575
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 3: can't treat politics as an online meme game anymore because

576
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 3: these real life characters are getting killed. They framed a

577
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 3: lot of this in very spiritual warfare language, like they

578
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 3: killed Charlie for being Christian or talking about Jesus though

579
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 3: stressing to his listeners like Jesus not actually pick up

580
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 3: arms and fight. Yeah, and people should calm down and

581
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 3: reflect because how the country handles this event will be

582
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 3: heavily deterministic, yes, in what the country looks like going forwards.

583
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 3: And that's what he was expressing.

584
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And I think that that's that's a really

585
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 2: important point for people to get across that, like there's

586
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 2: there's the immediate battle in front of us, right, which

587
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 2: is why it's so tempting sometimes to take the easy

588
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 2: Oh that's this guy was one of theirs. That that

589
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 2: means we don't have to keep thinking about it, or

590
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 2: it means that we can kind of just like move

591
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 2: forward with this as another right wing attack. And there's

592
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 2: a degree to which you know, it's good just for

593
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 2: the right's narrative machine to get upset by the fact

594
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 2: that even if it turns out this guy at left

595
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 2: wing motivation, he's weirder and more confusing than they want

596
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 2: him to be, and he's not you know, the transgender

597
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 2: terrorists they were hoping he would.

598
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 3: Be certainly not trans right to give.

599
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 2: Them permission to do all the fucked up shit they

600
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 2: wanted to do. You know, if they need permission, I mean,

601
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 2: they seem to feel like they need an excuse.

602
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 3: I do think, hey, Trump creates permission. Some of his

603
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 3: followers might appreciate permission.

604
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 6: I guess.

605
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

606
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 2: One thing that is undeniable is there was an extreme

607
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 2: desire from a lot of these guys for this to

608
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 2: be tied in with their ongoing attacks on trans people

609
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 2: in the left totally right, and so I understand even

610
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 2: the argument that, like anything that disrupts their narrative train, there,

611
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 2: even if it winds up not being accurate, there's a

612
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 2: value in it. I do understand that argument, But on

613
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 2: a larger thing if we just care about terrorism and

614
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 2: like why people get radicalized to do things and how

615
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 2: and understanding these phenomenons.

616
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 3: Like actually understanding how our country is unfolding.

617
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 2: Right, that influenced all of our lives, right, And usually

618
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 2: usually what happens is not a single guy getting shot

619
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 2: for a specific reason, usually a bunch of people who

620
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 2: had nothing to do with the grievances expressed getting shot.

621
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 3: Right.

622
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 2: That's usually when somebody decides to pick up a gun

623
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 2: and go into public because the inner they they got radicalized.

624
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 2: Usually a bunch of random, innocent people die, which is

625
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,719
Speaker 2: again why it's just really important to try to understand

626
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 2: the underlying dynamics, even in a specific case like this,

627
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 2: and why I actually do care about the truth here,

628
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 2: even though that that's not as convenient maybe as we'd

629
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,719
Speaker 2: like it to be. I don't know what else? What

630
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 2: else do we want to talk about here?

631
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 3: No, I mean, like, I think this event will be

632
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 3: extremely important. Yeah, something that that fwene has talked about

633
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 3: is how even if you've never met Kirk, you, whether

634
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 3: you hate Kirk or whether you love Kirk, Kirk has

635
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 3: been a parasocial force in probably everyone who's listening to this. Yeah,

636
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 3: their lives for years, and watching him bleed out gruesomely

637
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,719
Speaker 3: is massively affecting. I think the reason why people are

638
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 3: reacting to this so much more strongly than the murder

639
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 3: of a state senator and her husband is that we

640
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 3: did not have a personal relationship with that state senator,

641
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 3: nor was there a video of them gruesomely bleeding out.

642
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 3: And people's emotions affect how they understand reality, and the

643
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk murder has been emotionally affecting for a lot

644
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 3: of people, both positively and negatively. And it was very graphic,

645
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,439
Speaker 3: and it's spread around like watching someone who you know,

646
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 3: whether personally or parasocially, die on video through the medium

647
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 3: in which they gained their fame, is going to be

648
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 3: a very large, to use a really bad pun, a

649
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 3: turning point for the USA. And I think that's part

650
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 3: of why everyone's so volatile around this issue, because I

651
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,760
Speaker 3: think everyone realizes how important this moment will be. Despite

652
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 3: the deaths of Palestinian children vastly, vastly outnumbered the deaths

653
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 3: of one conservative commentator.

654
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, like logically we could all say

655
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 2: that that's wrong and fucked up, but like you just

656
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 2: you know, that's how people work, right, how people work.

657
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,359
Speaker 2: We all know that's how people work. I'm not saying

658
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 2: that's okay, I just you know.

659
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 3: No, but it's it's it's the way, it's the way

660
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 3: things work.

661
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't know, like because again we again

662
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,320
Speaker 2: still cannot say at this point that there was just

663
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,760
Speaker 2: a Vanity Fair article came out that's kind of repeating

664
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:25,720
Speaker 2: some of the Groper stuff. But I looked in my

665
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 2: post is their source on that? So they don't have

666
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:29,280
Speaker 2: anything new on the Groper front.

667
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,359
Speaker 3: So no, they're just thinking that the squatting slav meme

668
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 3: is evidence, yeah, tied to the Pepe version of the meme,

669
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 3: which is then linked to Groyper, which is a specific

670
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 3: type of pepe, not the skinny pepe. Yeah.

671
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 2: I'm so tired, Robert, I'm really tired. I don't know

672
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 2: if this guy liked Nick Flintes. I will say he

673
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 2: probably had an opinion about Nick Flintes. He was aware

674
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:53,479
Speaker 2: of them, the dude right, like he was that level

675
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 2: of online for sure.

676
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, which twenty two year old gamer mail doesn't.

677
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 3: And that's the thing, right exactly.

678
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 2: Again, It's like I was talking about when before we

679
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 2: knew who it was when we just had the video,

680
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 2: because I did accurately anticipate that it was someone who

681
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 2: learned how to shoot through hunting with a bolt action rifle.

682
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 2: That's just what the shot looked like to me when

683
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 2: I saw it, Yeah, which wound up being accurate. And

684
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 2: there were a lot of people who were like questioning

685
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 2: that on the grounds of like, well, though, this had

686
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 2: to be like a trained sniper or something like that,

687
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 2: and it's like.

688
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 3: This looks like a professional hit to me, Robert, or no,

689
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 3: a massad agent either.

690
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 2: Or yeah, like no, Literally, all we knew is that

691
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 2: it was somebody who was able to like competent with

692
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 2: a firearm.

693
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 3: That's all you could say.

694
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 2: And probably it was not a semi automatic because people

695
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 2: in stressful situations, if they can usually keep shooting right.

696
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 3: They would have hired more than one shot.

697
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 2: And was like, yeah, yeah, that's all that's all we

698
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 2: could say, which narrowed it down to everyone in Utah,

699
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 2: Like like that's when I try to emphasize this that

700
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,720
Speaker 2: like what I can say from this is that anyone

701
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 2: in Utah could have shot Charlie Kirk at that point,

702
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 2: and sure enough, it turned out being almost.

703
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 3: Like average twenty two year old Utonian.

704
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 7: Yeah, you.

705
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 2: Positive, normal Utah kid, that's what this guy looks like

706
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 2: so far.

707
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and yeah, there's a lot of like semi racist

708
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 3: or semi misogynist gamers out there. They're not necessarily gropers, right,

709
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 3: And we don't even know how racist this guy was.

710
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 3: There's no indication one way or another. He certainly had

711
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 3: an awareness of online culture. But everyone who makes a

712
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 3: hell Diver's two reference is going to have a pretty

713
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 3: large awareness of online culture. And that does not indicate

714
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 3: what his quote unquote beliefs are, just an awareness and

715
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,280
Speaker 3: an existence within that culture.

716
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:37,280
Speaker 7: Yep.

717
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 2: Well, I can't think of anything else to say at

718
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 2: the moment about this. It's unclear to me the degree

719
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 2: to which this has shifted the national discourse on it.

720
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 2: I have seen it looks like the way in which

721
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 2: the conservatives are talking about this guy in the shooting,

722
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 2: it looks like they have changed sae, at least some

723
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 2: of them, because it's less clear at least the number

724
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 2: of people right we're seeing.

725
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:02,280
Speaker 3: The groper counter narrative has introduced doubt, which will influence

726
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 3: some conservatives understanding of the shooting. Others will keep keep

727
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 3: hitting that that, that, and that leftist Antifa line. I

728
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 3: have seen certain people claim that the Groper narrative is

729
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 3: even changing the way Trump talks about the shooting because

730
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 3: Trump is not referencing Charlie Kirk as much or is

731
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 3: avoiding questions about how he's feeling in regards to to

732
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 3: Kirk's death. Yea, Trump has never cared about Charlie Kirk. Okay,

733
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,919
Speaker 3: Vance certainly has. He's like closer to like Vance's orbit.

734
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 3: But Donald Trump doesn't give a single fuck about Charlie Kirk.

735
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 3: Absolutely not this little, this little puny man, Like, no,

736
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 3: Trump does not care. It makes sense that one asked

737
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 3: how Trump feels about about about Charlie Kirk's and and

738
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 3: and if he's feeling okay, He's like, yeah, I feel fine.

739
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 3: What I'm really excited about is that we're constructing the

740
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 3: new White House ball right. Yeah, Like that's not indication

741
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 3: that Trump's been told that this guy's actually a rightist

742
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 3: and now has to not talk about how the left

743
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 3: is ruining the country. Now, it's that Trump does not

744
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 3: care about target Tark that much. And it's been a

745
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 3: few days, so yeah, he's gonna move on.

746
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's you know, if you're wanting to game

747
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 2: theory this out of the ethics of just muddying the

748
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 2: waters to disrupt their momentum, Well, there's an argument to

749
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 2: be made there.

750
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 3: I can see the utility in that. Yeah, My utility is,

751
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 3: I would say, at the very least equal to that, right,

752
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 3: And that's having an accurate understanding. I want to know

753
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 3: what happens to the world to predict future trends and

754
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 3: like understand the trajectory of political violence in the United States.

755
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 3: And that's what my interest in stressing evidentiary standards for

756
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 3: understanding the motivations behind this attack and the online communities

757
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:45,399
Speaker 3: and cultures that this attack has emerged from.

758
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 2: Right, And I would say, if you're looking in your

759
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,280
Speaker 2: own life, how can I tell which side of things

760
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 2: I'm on? Just imagine everything was reversed in the case

761
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 2: where like you think, this is really clear evidence that

762
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 2: this person was motivated by whoever you hate the most,

763
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 2: and that whatever ideology you hate is why they did it.

764
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 2: If it were the opposite and this same level of

765
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 2: evidence was being used to accuse someone who was on

766
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,839
Speaker 2: your side of things, would you consider the evidence presented enough, right,

767
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 2: And That's where what I'm looking at is, I have

768
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 2: not seen enough evidence to buy into either side fully yet.

769
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 2: I can make a case in my head that he's

770
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 2: a groper, and there's some pieces of evidence that fit

771
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 2: with that. And I can make a case in my

772
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 2: head that he's a guy who hates Charlie Kirk, and

773
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 2: there's quotes from some interviews that would back that up,

774
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 2: but neither of them is a solid at the moment

775
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 2: that we're recording. This is a solid hypothesis to me.

776
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 3: Or just a vaguely right wing board gamer right or

777
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 3: just a right wing word who has zoomer angst and

778
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 3: it manifested this way as many other people have manifested

779
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 3: there are zoomer anks through an act of political violence. Yeah,

780
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,439
Speaker 3: like groper, a very specific term means a specific thing.

781
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 3: It doesn't just mean a gen z conservative.

782
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 2: Yep, No, it does not. And I think that's where

783
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 2: we're going to have to and leave you for the day.

784
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,839
Speaker 2: We may have appenned an update to this, depending on

785
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 2: what else is out. I do think that most of

786
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 2: what we're talking about is pretty even though there will

787
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 2: be more information at the time you listen to it,

788
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 2: pretty timeless. In terms of how you should think about

789
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 2: shit like this.

790
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 3: How you react to whatever the next assassination is going

791
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 3: to be, because this is an increasing trend in American politics.

792
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 2: Look, if you care, and if your stance, if your

793
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 2: principled stance with all the evidence is I don't care.

794
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 2: All that matters is defeating the right. So all I

795
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 2: care about is what's convenient in terms of disrupting their narratives,

796
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 2: Then go on and live your life. But that's not

797
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 2: the way we're going to do things here. When we

798
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 2: look at these tacks, we are going to try to

799
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 2: figure out what happened, even if it's inconvenient, and it

800
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:43,879
Speaker 2: may be, you know, we don't know what this guy yet.

801
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 3: Touch some fucking grass before you touch grass, I'm recording

802
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:52,399
Speaker 3: one more update Sunday morning. Yesterday, right wing out let's

803
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 3: and then Axios and now even more mainstream out let's

804
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 3: started reporting that the shooter, Tyler Robinson, had a transgender

805
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 3: room mate, and that investigators believe the two had some

806
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 3: sort of romantic relationship. Some information from law enforcement officials

807
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,720
Speaker 3: about this investigation has been shown to be dubious at best,

808
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 3: but it is true that the shooter had a roommate

809
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 3: who does appear to be transgender. The roommate's TikTok can

810
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 3: be traced to a Reddit account where they post about

811
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 3: being trans and post on r slash trans r slash

812
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 3: trans Diy, as well as r slash four Tran, and

813
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 3: also posts on our slash Green Text and r slash

814
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 3: four Chan. Also active in a variety of video games subreddits,

815
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 3: magic the Gathering Memes subreddits, r slash Distressing Memes, r

816
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 3: slash Reddit Moment, r slash Unpopular Opinion, r slash Lord

817
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:54,280
Speaker 3: of the Rings Memes, r slash Prehistoric Memes, r slash

818
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 3: dank Meme, r slash nothing Ever Happens. Also post on

819
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 3: our slash by Irl, r slash Anarcho Capitalism, r slash

820
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 3: Jordan Peterson, as well as the four Chan themed subreddits.

821
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 3: I should also note that scrolling these subredits is not

822
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:19,439
Speaker 3: necessarily indicative of someone's political orientation. I myself scroll many

823
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 3: of these subredits, as do largely a political friends of

824
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 3: mine who check out these subreddits regularly just for shits

825
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 3: and giggles. This is politics as meme subredits like Political

826
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:38,240
Speaker 3: Compass and TPUSA are popular political subredits with explicitly comedic purpose,

827
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 3: including making fun of Charlie Kirk in a memified fashion.

828
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 3: And I don't know if the roommate visited those two

829
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 3: specific subreddits, but I'm just using them as an example.

830
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 3: Utah Governor Spencer Cox says that the roommate did not

831
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,879
Speaker 3: have any knowledge of Tyler Robinson's planned attack and has

832
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 3: been incredibly cooperative throughout the course of the investigation. Sources

833
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 3: have told Axios that investigators initially wanted information about the

834
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 3: roommates gender identity to not be publicly reported. The right

835
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 3: is certainly eager to make any sort of transgender connection

836
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 3: to this shooting. The New York Post has referred to

837
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 3: this shooting as another shooting by trans people and their advocates.

838
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 3: The actual motivation of the shooter is still currently unknown.

839
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 3: Governor Cox has described his ideology as leftist, while also

840
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 3: noting quote there was a lot of gaming going on.

841
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 3: Friends have confirmed that there was that deep dark internet

842
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 3: Reddit culture and other dark places of the Internet where

843
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 3: this person was going deep. You saw that on the casings.

844
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 3: I didn't have any idea what those inscriptions meant, but

845
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 3: they are certainly the memification that is happening in our society.

846
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 3: Today unquote, that's pretty much all we know so far.

847
00:44:55,160 --> 00:45:27,240
Speaker 8: Now go touch some grass.

848
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 9: Here. The last time that you and I spoke was

849
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:20,240
Speaker 9: about twelve hours after Trump announced the takeover of DC's

850
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 9: police force. It had really just happened, so I didn't

851
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 9: really have a ton of clarity about how things were

852
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 9: going to be taking shape and what resistance or pushback

853
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 9: would look like. Now today that we're speaking Friday, September twelfth,

854
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 9: it's been a little over about thirty days since all

855
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 9: of this went down, and I feel like we're due

856
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 9: for an update from my hometown, the District of Columbia.

857
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 3: What do you say? Absolutely, we're at the deadline. So

858
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:50,760
Speaker 3: now Trump can no longer do anything. The city's back. God,

859
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:54,839
Speaker 3: I wish you're free once again. Oh my God, from

860
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 3: your lips to God's ears. So I did want to

861
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 3: set the stage a little bit up top. You know,

862
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 3: I'm a journalist, but I am also an advocate for

863
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 3: DC statehood first and foremost. I feel like I need

864
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:09,359
Speaker 3: to make sure something is super clear, which is that

865
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 3: how entwined all of this.

866
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 10: Is to DC's lack of statehood.

867
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:16,839
Speaker 9: After the last time that you and I spoke, there

868
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 9: a listener said, oh, why is she making this whole

869
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,800
Speaker 9: thing about statehood? How would DC being a state change anything?

870
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 9: How would two more democratic senators change anything? Why are

871
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 9: you making it about that? And I thought, oop, I

872
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 9: did not do a good enough job of making clear

873
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 9: why the takeover in DC could happen at all, and

874
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 9: the ways that DC's lack of statehood is at the

875
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 9: heart of that issue. This is just sort of the

876
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 9: soup that I swim in all day, every day, So

877
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 9: I forget. That's not true for everybody. For some of you,

878
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 9: this might be a refresher, and you might know this already,

879
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 9: But the reason why Trump started all of this in

880
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 9: DC is because DC is not a state. You know,

881
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 9: as president, Trump has a lot more authority over DC

882
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 9: than he has over any other place in the country.

883
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,359
Speaker 9: While Trump talking about sending the National Guard into other

884
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 9: cities is awful.

885
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 3: He wants to do it to Chicago's so bad, so bad,

886
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 3: but he doesn't have the ability to. And he's really

887
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 3: upset about that, so much so that he's probably going

888
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 3: to cancel a degree of the plans for National Guard

889
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 3: diploma to Chicago instead going to cooperate with Louisiana because

890
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 3: the governor is okay with working with Trump on that

891
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 3: in Louisiana.

892
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 9: Yes, exactly exactly did you see this is like a

893
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 9: non secorder. But the tweet that he put out, like

894
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 9: the AI generated tweet that's they're gonna find out why

895
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 9: we call it's the Department of War. Then it was like, oh,

896
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 9: we were just just kidding and just.

897
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 10: Yes, delete that tweet now the most just that was

898
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 10: just a.

899
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 3: Joke, which is into like downplay, like the amount of

900
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 3: federal resources currently in Chicago. ICE in DHS have been

901
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 3: very busy in Chicago, and I believe Friday morning, the

902
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,280
Speaker 3: day that we recorded this, ICE killed somebody in Chicago

903
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 3: during an enforcement action. So this isn't to say, you know,

904
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 3: Chicago's freed from Trump's federal force. His ICE is still

905
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 3: operating in Chicago as they have been, but at least

906
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 3: the National Guard deployment like mass military style occupation is

907
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 3: unlikely in the near future.

908
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 9: Yes, that is great context, and I think it also

909
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 9: illustrates why what's happening in DC is so unique and

910
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,839
Speaker 9: could not happen anywhere else in the country. So while

911
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 9: Trump is talking about wanting to send the National Guard

912
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 9: to other cities, he does not have the broad authority

913
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 9: to take over local police forces in those cities the

914
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 9: way that he did in DC. And even if he did,

915
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 9: let's say, exercise what authority he could have over local

916
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 9: police and other cities, say like in an emergency situation,

917
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 9: it still wouldn't be the attempt to take over the

918
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 9: police force like we saw in DC. Like when this

919
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:48,320
Speaker 9: first happened, Pam Bondi was literally trying to replace DC's

920
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 9: chief of police briefly successfully until DC's Attorney General, Brian

921
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 9: Schwab sued. Right, And so yeah, Trump does not have

922
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 9: the authority to oust local leaders and other cities and states.

923
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 9: Even if sent the National Guard to Memphis, Memphis still

924
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 9: has a mayor, Tennessee has a governor, there's senators, this

925
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 9: congressional representation. Because DC is not a state, Trump working

926
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 9: with Congress could take over our city, elset, our mayor,

927
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 9: and our city council. He has been talking about doing

928
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 9: that as recently as this morning. I want to play

929
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,240
Speaker 9: a quick clip. He does lie in this clip because

930
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 9: technically he doesn't have the authority. It has to go

931
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,800
Speaker 9: through Congress. But you know, I don't see our Congress

932
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 9: really standing up to whatever Trump wants anytime soon, and

933
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 9: so if Congress were to provoke DC's home rule, then

934
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,319
Speaker 9: Trump would be able to appoint whoever he wanted to

935
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 9: run d C. So I want to play a clip

936
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 9: of him talking about this, weirdly in Oppressor about that

937
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 9: Charlie Kirk murder. Here's what he had to say.

938
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 11: Well, the mayor's asked us to say, you know, we

939
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 11: have a Democrat mayor. He was asked us today, and

940
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 11: DC's a little bit different because I could federalize it

941
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 11: if I want. You know, DC's a little bit different.

942
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 11: So we have a lot of a lot.

943
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 7: We have actually more.

944
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 11: Power in DC because it's you know, I can change

945
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:02,879
Speaker 11: the mayor if I want, I can do whatever I want.

946
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 3: I haven't had to.

947
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 11: We've had a great relationship with the mayor. We've had

948
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 11: a great relationship. Everybody's happy, and the mayor was not

949
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,839
Speaker 11: in favor of it at first. We forced and then

950
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 11: she saw the results and everyone's going up the thank

951
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 11: you her.

952
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 7: We have no crime anymore.

953
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 9: Ugh, Okay, I gotta stop it because I can't even

954
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 9: I can't even listen to him bloviate on that.

955
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 10: But again he's kind of lying here.

956
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 9: But there is a reality where Trump single handedly is

957
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 9: in control of DC. So it would have to take

958
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 9: Congress overturning DC's home rule. But I don't think that

959
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 9: would be terribly difficult for him to achieve. And if

960
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 9: that does happen, he is right that he could appoint

961
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 9: whoever he wanted to be in control of DC. And

962
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 9: so the GOP has already introduced legislation that would revoke

963
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:52,839
Speaker 9: DC's home rule entirely, something that Trump says that he

964
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 9: wants to do. To be super clear, this would mean

965
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 9: that all of the little things that you rely on

966
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 9: and probably take for granted about your day to day

967
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 9: local life, your social services, your trash pickup, how your

968
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 9: streets are run, your public transport, Trump would be in

969
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 9: charge of literally all of that. For me, it's important

970
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 9: to me that people understand how bad of a situation

971
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 9: that would be.

972
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, that would be unprecedented.

973
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 10: So just to put a pin in that.

974
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 9: Even though Trump is talking about setting the National Guard

975
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 9: to other cities, DC's lack of statehood really makes what's

976
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:29,879
Speaker 9: happening here unlike any other place in the country, DC

977
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 9: is uniquely vulnerable. In addition to all of the racial

978
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 9: equity and democracy implications for statehood. The reality is everyday

979
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 9: lives of more than a half a million people who

980
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 9: live here like me are made more vulnerable by DC's

981
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 9: lack of statehood. So when I am on my statehood soapbox,

982
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 9: that is why, because the lack of statehood in DC

983
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,280
Speaker 9: just makes us very vulnerable to having somebody like Trump

984
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 9: really exercise an unprecedented amount of control that we will

985
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 9: not see anywhere else in the United States. So just

986
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 9: wanted to make that clear. Okay, So now I have

987
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 9: some updates about the situation. As you said, Garrison, the

988
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 9: crime emergency in DC, which sort of kicked all of

989
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 9: this off, has come to an end.

990
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 10: Free that's over. Mission accomplished.

991
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 9: We did its accomplished, so it lasted thirty days and

992
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,839
Speaker 9: it's come to an end. However, there is no guarantee

993
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 9: that Trump couldn't just declare another one. The optics of

994
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 9: that would be a little weird because he's been talking,

995
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 9: as we just heard in that clip, he's been talking

996
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,439
Speaker 9: about how crime is down to zero in DC except

997
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 9: for domestic violence, which everybody knows isn't really a crime, right, Like,

998
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,399
Speaker 9: he made it very clear that he feels like crime

999
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 9: has gone to zero, so will be pretty weird to

1000
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:45,879
Speaker 9: then institute another crime emergency in DC.

1001
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 3: He kind of got what he wanted to with the

1002
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 3: mayor agreeing to cooperate with him.

1003
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 10: Someone m hmmm exactly.

1004
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 9: So to be super clear, even with the crime emergency

1005
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:59,239
Speaker 9: in DC, ending that in no way means an end

1006
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 9: to things like the National Guard in our streets or

1007
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 9: checkpoints which have just been horrifying, and the surge that

1008
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 9: we're seeing in federal law enforcement, because those are two

1009
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 9: distinct things. And in the last few weeks of this,

1010
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 9: what's really become just abundantly clear is that this whole

1011
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 9: thing was about immigration. Even after all the talk of

1012
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 9: crime and DC, it became very clear that this is

1013
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:26,240
Speaker 9: less about crime and more about enforcing Trump's immigration agenda.

1014
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 9: As you sort of alluded to early on, before she

1015
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 9: really changed her tune about Tukes into the takeover, our

1016
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 9: mayor Muriel Bowser held a press conference where she said, well,

1017
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,840
Speaker 9: if Trump's goal was to deport migrants and bring an ice,

1018
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:41,880
Speaker 9: you know, he didn't have to take over MPD to

1019
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 9: do that. He should have just outright said that's what

1020
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:45,959
Speaker 9: he wanted to do, instead of making it this whole

1021
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 9: thing about crime. Don't ask her to repeat that sentiment now,

1022
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 9: because I don't think that she would. She's really really

1023
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 9: changed her tune, which we'll talk about.

1024
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 10: In a moment.

1025
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:56,760
Speaker 9: And so one of the things that makes it complicated

1026
00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 9: is that when you're talking about immigration detention versus other

1027
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 9: kinds of arrests, it just becomes a lot harder to

1028
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:06,800
Speaker 9: have transparency into what's going on. But the Associated Press

1029
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 9: reported that dated from the federal operation, analyzed by the

1030
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 9: AP shows that more than forty percent of the arrests

1031
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:16,360
Speaker 9: made over the month long operation were related to immigration.

1032
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 9: They spoke to Austin Rose, a managing attorney for the

1033
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:22,360
Speaker 9: AMICA Center for Immigrant Rights, who said the federal takeover

1034
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:25,319
Speaker 9: has been a cover to do federal immigration enforcement. It

1035
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 9: became pretty clear early on that this was a major

1036
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 9: campaign of immigration enforcement, and that's just it's really hard

1037
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 9: to deny that this was just another increasing plank of

1038
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 9: the president's agenda on immigration.

1039
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think you can certainly look at the

1040
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 3: anti crime narratives getting a lot of traction on the

1041
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 3: right with that pretty gruesome murder in North Carolina last

1042
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 3: week as well, and like, absolutely the crime angle is

1043
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 3: part of the rhetorical strategy Trump is using. And yeah,

1044
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 3: a right wing populast president doing a crime crackdown. Oh,

1045
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 3: this is unheard of, This is unprecedented. No, like, of

1046
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 3: course they're going to use that angle. But yeah, the

1047
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:01,880
Speaker 3: under discussed element of this is how much this has

1048
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 3: just been a cover to do a rapid increase in

1049
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:08,839
Speaker 3: the number of immigration actions around DC. Will like you said,

1050
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 3: that was like forty percent, so still another sixty percent

1051
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:15,239
Speaker 3: of arrests is just affecting the other DC residents, and

1052
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 3: a lot of that is tying to this national crime

1053
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 3: wave narratives that these people are also pushing. I think

1054
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 3: these things work together. They're not necessarily like oppositional analyzes

1055
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:28,759
Speaker 3: of what's going on. But the immigration angle has been

1056
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 3: very underdiscussed in the DC occupation.

1057
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 9: I agree it's hard to discuss because I think we

1058
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:39,320
Speaker 9: have to really have some honest conversations. It is true

1059
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:43,760
Speaker 9: that DC experienced a surge in violent crime in twenty

1060
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 9: twenty three. That surge thankfully went down, But I think

1061
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 9: that crime is just one of those issues where people

1062
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 9: who other rise are invested in telling nuanced, thoughtful stories

1063
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 9: about complex issues. I see a lot of that nuance

1064
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 9: and thoughtfulness go right out out the window when we're

1065
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 9: talking about crime. And I think that we really let

1066
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 9: the right dominate the conversation about crime in our cities

1067
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 9: and in some ways hijack that conversation. And I do

1068
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 9: think that dynamic is part and parcel to how we

1069
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 9: got here. Now, I have a b in my bonnet

1070
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 9: about some of the sloppy journalism, like local journalism, people

1071
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:24,760
Speaker 9: who really should know better about crime.

1072
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 10: You know, we had a wave.

1073
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 9: Of businesses shut and they would say, oh, we're shutting

1074
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:31,880
Speaker 9: because of crime, and it's like, yeah, look you actually

1075
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:33,760
Speaker 9: look and you're thinking, oh, well, this is a cash

1076
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 9: less business.

1077
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 10: What kind of crime were you experiencing?

1078
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:39,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no way. Using crime as this excuse in

1079
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 3: post COVID economic decline has been extremely convenient for a

1080
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 3: lot of corporations. And yeah, I guess like the degree

1081
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 3: to which we've seeded territory on that same way, you know,

1082
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 3: we see a territory on like the border and immigration,

1083
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:58,760
Speaker 3: but specifically sitting territory on discussion of crime allowed operating

1084
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 3: space for Trump to deploy this narrative, which then was

1085
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 3: used to hurt a lot of.

1086
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:09,320
Speaker 9: Immigrants exactly, and in DC, we saw much tighter coordination

1087
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 9: with immigration officials with our local police force, especially at

1088
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 9: checkpoints where police would work with ICE even if someone

1089
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 9: was not otherwise detained or in custody. I did an

1090
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 9: interview with the Washington Posts Tayu Armis, who covers immigrant

1091
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 9: communities here in DC, and he told me that this

1092
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 9: whole thing was essentially an attack on the policies that

1093
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 9: make a city like DC what is commonly thought of

1094
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 9: as a sanctuary city. I don't love the phrase sanctuary city,

1095
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 9: but you know what I mean, you know laws that

1096
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 9: do not require police departments to coordinate with immigration officials.

1097
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 9: Really that it was an attack.

1098
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 3: On those Yeah, totally.

1099
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, and I think that it's important that

1100
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 9: we call that out for what it is. And this

1101
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 9: is difficult for me personally, but not get lost in

1102
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 9: debating what Trump is laying out about crime, because when

1103
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 9: you understand that it's not really about crime, then you

1104
00:57:57,880 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 9: don't have to do that debating, right, And it's like, well,

1105
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 9: the it's not really about crime, so let's not waste

1106
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 9: time debating what we both can plainly see this is

1107
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 9: not really about.

1108
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because DC is just faking all crime stats anyway,

1109
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 3: right bridget.

1110
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 10: Oh gosh, don't even get me started, gare.

1111
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 9: And so, something that Tayu told me in our interview

1112
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 9: that I found very troubling is that, again, when someone

1113
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 9: is detained because of a suspected immigration related issue, we

1114
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 9: just have a lot less information and transparency than if

1115
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 9: they were being arrested for another kind of crime. He

1116
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 9: described it as a black box that is difficult to penetrate,

1117
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 9: which is obviously heightened when you have masked agents pulling

1118
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 9: people out of cars at checkpoints and doing things like

1119
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 9: literally hitting delivery drivers with vehicles right like, it becomes

1120
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 9: very difficult to really even understand what's going on, and

1121
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 9: that's by design.

1122
00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 3: It's hard to find them in the system because these

1123
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 3: people often aren't even charged with their crime. Remaining in

1124
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 3: the country past. The expression of a visa isn't a

1125
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 3: crime exactly. So though these people are brained as quote

1126
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 3: unquote criminal migrants, that that often is factually incorrect, if

1127
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:15,840
Speaker 3: factually incorrect even matters anymore, which it increasingly does not,

1128
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 3: it seems.

1129
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 9: Yeah, And I mean, as you said, we know that

1130
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:21,640
Speaker 9: immigrant communities are not committing more crime than the rest

1131
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 9: of the population, and.

1132
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 3: So estimates would show less actually exactly because they don't

1133
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 3: want to get deported.

1134
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 9: And you know, again, I feel myself getting pulled back

1135
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 9: into Trump's he he gets me go like circling the

1136
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 9: drain with this, where it's like, well, if you really

1137
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 9: cared about crime, you would want immigrant communities to feel

1138
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:39,919
Speaker 9: comfortable talking to believes with the understanding that they weren't

1139
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 9: going to be deported if they reported a crime, or

1140
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 9: if they witnessed a crime, or if they saw crime.

1141
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:44,280
Speaker 10: But again, it's.

1142
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 9: Not really about crime, so I don't have to I

1143
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 9: don't have to get myself pulled into.

1144
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:50,439
Speaker 3: That, no, because it's entirely racialized. That's like the big

1145
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 3: common denominator here, even with the anti crime narrative and

1146
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 3: the immigration stuff, is that it's all racialized violence.

1147
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 9: Yes, And I mean, I'm glad that you brought that up,

1148
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 9: just as a personal I live in Columbia Heights, which

1149
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:06,520
Speaker 9: is a heavily black and brown neighborhood, a very thriving

1150
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 9: Latino population, and it really just has been awful.

1151
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 10: Right.

1152
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 9: I live on a very busy street that runs right

1153
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 9: through the city, and like checkpoints on either side of

1154
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 9: my street, and I was listening to. I think it

1155
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 9: was a Kara Swisher podcast, and she also lives in DC,

1156
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:26,680
Speaker 9: and she was saying, oh, well, I haven't really noticed

1157
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 9: any big changes, and I'm thinking.

1158
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 3: Kara, Yeah, yeah, I bet, I bet you aren't noticing

1159
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 3: many changes.

1160
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 10: Yeah, I bet you haven't noticed any changes. And yeah.

1161
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:37,680
Speaker 10: I mean I've lived in DC most of my whole life.

1162
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 9: I've never seen checkpoints where people are physically dragged out

1163
01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 9: of cars and in this way. So I mean, if

1164
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 9: you don't live in a neighborhood like this, you might

1165
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 9: be able to get away with saying, oh, I haven't

1166
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 9: seen any big changes, or nothing's really changed, or maybe

1167
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 9: I just see the National Guard when I leave my house.

1168
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:59,240
Speaker 9: But in neighborhoods like mine, the change is very real,

1169
01:00:59,280 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 9: I'll put it that way.

1170
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 10: So you brought up.

1171
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 9: The mayor, which I did want to briefly touch on.

1172
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 9: I have been called out on this very podcast for

1173
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 9: being too sympathetic to our mayor, which is actually funny

1174
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 9: to me because on my other podcast, all we do

1175
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:15,160
Speaker 9: is call her out. But the point that I have

1176
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 9: tried to make, and I think this is the nature

1177
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 9: of that critique, is that I do think it is

1178
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 9: important that people understand that our lack of statehood in

1179
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 9: DC does put our mayor in a position where her

1180
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:29,240
Speaker 9: authority is just realistically a lot more limited than other

1181
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 9: elected officials. But even in that situation with realistically limited authority,

1182
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 9: her play here has been cozying up to Trump. And

1183
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 9: that is one hundred percent a choice. Yeah, that is

1184
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 9: not something that other elected officials in DC have done.

1185
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:47,320
Speaker 9: That is one hundred percent a choice.

1186
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:50,600
Speaker 3: And it's a choice in an attempt in some ways

1187
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:54,040
Speaker 3: to diffuse the situation to not have Trump escalate, to

1188
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:59,000
Speaker 3: not go into a even more like legally uncharted territory,

1189
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 3: right to accelerate the conflict. And I think a lot

1190
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:06,240
Speaker 3: of people who are critiquing this move actually would be

1191
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:09,520
Speaker 3: very interested in this point, in accelerating this conflict, seeing

1192
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 3: what Trump will actually do stress tests even more of

1193
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 3: our democracy, and a lot of people are interested in

1194
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:19,840
Speaker 3: watching the results of that happen. And I can see

1195
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 3: how someone like Bowser doesn't want to do that, but

1196
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:25,600
Speaker 3: that opens her up for a lot of critique. And

1197
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 3: I'm interested in what you said about like other city officials,

1198
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:30,760
Speaker 3: That's not something I've heard as much about, is her

1199
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 3: kind of cooperating with Trump compared to the stance of

1200
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 3: other city officials.

1201
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:40,440
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, look at DC's Attorney General Brian Schwab,

1202
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:43,440
Speaker 9: who has been out here suing the Trump administration somewhat

1203
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 9: successfully and has been a much more obvious fighter for DC. Right, So, like,

1204
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:51,560
Speaker 9: he is certainly not playing nice. He's like, Oh, we're

1205
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:53,680
Speaker 9: gonna fight this in the courts. If you want to

1206
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:55,240
Speaker 9: try to take over our city, we will see you

1207
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:58,320
Speaker 9: in court. I'm so curious what the conversations are like

1208
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 9: between Bowser and Schwab, But it just reveals to me

1209
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:04,600
Speaker 9: that capitulating and cozying up. I'm not gonna say it's

1210
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 9: not a strategy, but it's certainly a choice. And to

1211
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 9: your point earlier, there are definitely people who say, hey,

1212
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:14,640
Speaker 9: she's playing nice with Trump. D C still has home rule,

1213
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:18,640
Speaker 9: DC still has a mayor, and the crime emergency has ended.

1214
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:21,479
Speaker 9: Those are all good things, And being a resident of DC,

1215
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:24,640
Speaker 9: I will happily say I don't want to see how

1216
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 9: far Trump will go on this. I want this to end.

1217
01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:30,880
Speaker 9: I want you know, I'm not someone who was like, yeah, like,

1218
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:32,360
Speaker 9: let the chips fall.

1219
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 3: Where they may.

1220
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 9: I want my trash picked up, I want my you know,

1221
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:38,040
Speaker 9: my neighbors' kids to be able to go to school.

1222
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 9: All of that, I'm not that's understandable. Yeah, yeah, it's

1223
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 9: the complex thing. I do think that, you know, early

1224
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 9: on in this, Bowser was talking about how crime in

1225
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 9: DC was down, and then Trump said on social media, oh,

1226
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:57,440
Speaker 9: Bowser better get her story straight on the crime numbers

1227
01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:00,480
Speaker 9: or things are gonna get worse. And days later she

1228
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:02,440
Speaker 9: was taking in a very different tune. She did a

1229
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 9: press conference where she thanked the federal government. She did

1230
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 9: stop short of thanking Trump specifically, but thanking the federal

1231
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:10,360
Speaker 9: government for helping DC.

1232
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:11,360
Speaker 10: With the crime issue.

1233
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 9: And I guess to somebody who's been following Bowser for

1234
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:16,960
Speaker 9: as long as I have, it wasn't terribly surprising in

1235
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 9: an episode I did of it could happen here. I

1236
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:22,920
Speaker 9: think back in January we talked about how her stance

1237
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:26,000
Speaker 9: with Trump this time around was like concession after concession

1238
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:28,280
Speaker 9: after concession, So it wasn't surprising.

1239
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 3: This falls in line with that, I guess.

1240
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 9: Correct, And I do think that people need to understand

1241
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:37,479
Speaker 9: that in a lot of ways Bowser and I don't

1242
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 9: mean this in the way that it's going to sound,

1243
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 9: but like I do think that there is alignment between

1244
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 9: Bowser and Trump on a lot of issues, crime potentially

1245
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 9: being one of them. Right, when we were talking about

1246
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:53,720
Speaker 9: how Trump wanted Bowser to dismantle encampments in DC, it

1247
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 9: wasn't like Bowser as some friend to the homeless.

1248
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:56,960
Speaker 3: No no, no, no.

1249
01:04:57,320 --> 01:04:58,120
Speaker 10: Yeah, like the.

1250
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 9: Specific encampment in question already had plans to demolish, just

1251
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:04,400
Speaker 9: later on on a slower timeline.

1252
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:08,600
Speaker 3: There is a class alignment among people in the political

1253
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:09,800
Speaker 3: quote unquote elite.

1254
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:10,120
Speaker 12: Right.

1255
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:14,480
Speaker 3: You can look at Gavin Newsom's extreme anti homeless policies

1256
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:18,200
Speaker 3: and compare that to Trump's extreme anti homeless policies, and yeah,

1257
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 3: they have class alignment on that issue, even if Gavin

1258
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 3: might be against Trump on some other issues, though he

1259
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:28,040
Speaker 3: has his own fair share of concessions to Trump.

1260
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:30,120
Speaker 10: Oh you said it, friend.

1261
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 3: Also, I like that I'm on a first name basis

1262
01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:32,960
Speaker 3: with Gavin.

1263
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 10: I know, gab.

1264
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 3: Podcaster solidarity and as we've seen the past week, podcaster

1265
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:39,840
Speaker 3: solidarity most important thing.

1266
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:43,920
Speaker 9: Ooh yes, oh yes, Also, fellow, iHeart podcaster.

1267
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:48,440
Speaker 3: I believe for Gavin. Yeah, yeah, I hope he joins

1268
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 3: the union.

1269
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 13: Yeah.

1270
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 10: Same.

1271
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:52,720
Speaker 9: And I guess I should say to your point about

1272
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:56,400
Speaker 9: the complexities about you know, the way that Bowser, our

1273
01:05:56,480 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 9: mayor is playing this. It's true that it's good that

1274
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:03,840
Speaker 9: the crime emergency has ended, that DC still has home rule,

1275
01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:05,480
Speaker 9: we still have a mayor, we saw the city council

1276
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:08,080
Speaker 9: as of today. And even if you will say, like,

1277
01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:11,000
Speaker 9: well that's you know, the mayor CosIng up with Trump,

1278
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:13,200
Speaker 9: like you have that to thank that's why that's happening.

1279
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 9: Our mayor is really making no friends with other black

1280
01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:20,040
Speaker 9: mayors in cities like Chicago and Baltimore.

1281
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 6: I have to assume.

1282
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:23,720
Speaker 9: Yeah, when she does press conferences where she talks about

1283
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:25,840
Speaker 9: how having federal troops in DC has been good for

1284
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:28,160
Speaker 9: the city, how crime has gone down, when you have

1285
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:30,479
Speaker 9: these other cities that are currently trying to fend off

1286
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 9: federal takeovers from Trump. So even if her CosIng up

1287
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 9: with Trump has led to d C specifically being able

1288
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:39,800
Speaker 9: to enjoy home rule for another day, at what cost

1289
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:42,440
Speaker 9: if it enables Trump's actions in other cities.

1290
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:45,040
Speaker 3: You know, me putting on my skull mask as I

1291
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:50,560
Speaker 3: bring out my chess spoarding the accelerationist collapse of DC

1292
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:53,120
Speaker 3: and how that affects a larger political situation in the

1293
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:57,000
Speaker 3: United States. Yes, how much how much of DC am

1294
01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:59,600
Speaker 3: I willing to sacrifice to see how far Trump will go.

1295
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:01,640
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's tough.

1296
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 9: It's complicated because obviously, as a DC resident, I want

1297
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:09,520
Speaker 9: to have a safe and peaceful existence for myself here

1298
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:11,920
Speaker 9: in DC. But it's not happening in a vacuum, and

1299
01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:13,320
Speaker 9: so I also have to think about, you know, the

1300
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 9: national implications for other cities.

1301
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:18,919
Speaker 10: And you know, I don't envy our mayor.

1302
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 3: I guess I don't envy many mayors. Oh.

1303
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:24,960
Speaker 9: I am firmly believe if you want to become the

1304
01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 9: mayor of a city like DC, Baltimore, Chicago, something has

1305
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:28,320
Speaker 9: to be wrong with you.

1306
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:32,080
Speaker 3: And Bridget Todd has come out against Zorn Mamdani officially

1307
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:33,920
Speaker 3: could happen here podcast?

1308
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:38,920
Speaker 9: No, no, no, I'm just saying I mean, yeah, I'll say it.

1309
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:40,760
Speaker 3: Who wants a job like that though? It sounds like

1310
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:41,520
Speaker 3: a nightmare. Yeah.

1311
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:43,880
Speaker 9: I and a friend who was like vying to be

1312
01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:46,840
Speaker 9: the head of comms for the Baltimore Police Department, and

1313
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:49,040
Speaker 9: I was like, wow, you are a massacre.

1314
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 3: That's even weirder, that's even weirder.

1315
01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:52,560
Speaker 10: Yeah, that's like the I.

1316
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:58,760
Speaker 9: Can't imagine to never know peace and not get into heaven.

1317
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:02,280
Speaker 10: Listening and thinking, oh, why she's talking shit about me?

1318
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:07,000
Speaker 9: And so it is complicated, and I do think it's

1319
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 9: important as important as much as I want DC to

1320
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:13,160
Speaker 9: be a safe place where I can walk outside and

1321
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:15,640
Speaker 9: not see people getting dragged out of cars and federal

1322
01:08:15,720 --> 01:08:17,640
Speaker 9: checkpoints and all of that, we do need to think

1323
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:20,439
Speaker 9: about the larger picture here. And people that I've talked

1324
01:08:20,479 --> 01:08:23,720
Speaker 9: to with regards to the mayor, they tell me that, oh,

1325
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:27,519
Speaker 9: it seems like she is just not interested in the

1326
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:30,680
Speaker 9: like the polling of these decisions, because the conversations that

1327
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:33,160
Speaker 9: I am having, people are not happy with her. In

1328
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:35,320
Speaker 9: the spaces I am in. The conversation is like, how

1329
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 9: do we recall this mayor? Like, even though we might

1330
01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 9: have these sort of things that you consider victories, DC

1331
01:08:41,320 --> 01:08:43,599
Speaker 9: enjoying home rule, still having a mayor, a city council,

1332
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 9: all of that, people are really really really not happy

1333
01:08:47,520 --> 01:09:01,439
Speaker 9: with our mayor. Yeah, so looking head at what's coming

1334
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:05,040
Speaker 9: up next. Even though the crime emergency is ending, this

1335
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:08,000
Speaker 9: whole thing is very far from over. The fight for

1336
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:11,000
Speaker 9: the self determination of DC is far from over in

1337
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:13,559
Speaker 9: ways that have in a lot of ways nothing to

1338
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 9: do with Trump. There are thirteen bills in the House

1339
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:21,360
Speaker 9: aimed at directly taking action at DC. Many of them

1340
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 9: are direct assaults on DC's home rules. There are provisions

1341
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:28,360
Speaker 9: that would make it easier for Congress to overturn DC

1342
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:31,080
Speaker 9: home rule. There are provisions that lower the age of

1343
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:33,040
Speaker 9: when you can be tried as an adult for crimes

1344
01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:35,599
Speaker 9: from sixteen to fourteen. There is a provision that would

1345
01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 9: give Congress longer time to review DC's laws. Right now,

1346
01:09:39,439 --> 01:09:41,519
Speaker 9: it's thirty days. They would change it to sixty days.

1347
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:44,320
Speaker 9: All of DC's laws have to go through Congress. It

1348
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:47,000
Speaker 9: is a nightmare, Like it is a whole thing. The

1349
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:50,160
Speaker 9: biggest of these bills in the House right now is

1350
01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:54,519
Speaker 9: of course, wanting to overturn DC's ability for district residents

1351
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 9: to elect our own attorney general instead of having an

1352
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:01,439
Speaker 9: attorney general appointed by Trump. If that bill were to

1353
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:04,519
Speaker 9: become law, it would mean that our current attorney general,

1354
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:07,400
Speaker 9: the person who I would argue, has sort of emerged

1355
01:10:07,479 --> 01:10:10,040
Speaker 9: as the If there was a single person that you

1356
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:11,400
Speaker 9: could look at and be like, oh, this person is

1357
01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:15,679
Speaker 9: trying to fight for DC's home rule and authority, Brian Schwab,

1358
01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:18,519
Speaker 9: he would be fired immediately and Trump would be able

1359
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:21,160
Speaker 9: to replace him with whoever he chose, not somebody that

1360
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:25,040
Speaker 9: district residents elected or voted for or campaigned for, just

1361
01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:28,720
Speaker 9: whoever Trump wanted, and that term would run concurrent with

1362
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:30,240
Speaker 9: the president of the United States.

1363
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:33,840
Speaker 10: So obviously, you know, some of these pieces.

1364
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:38,160
Speaker 9: Are not overturning home rule entirely, but they are clearly

1365
01:10:38,479 --> 01:10:41,679
Speaker 9: attacks on DC's ability to govern itself and the self

1366
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:43,479
Speaker 9: determination of folks here in the district.

1367
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:45,800
Speaker 3: Are you going to discuss what's going to happen with

1368
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:47,920
Speaker 3: the Safe and Beautiful Task Force? Oh no, but I

1369
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:53,240
Speaker 3: can has passed the expiration of the order, Bowser's establishment

1370
01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:56,800
Speaker 3: of the task force to continue federal cooperation. Yes, I

1371
01:10:56,800 --> 01:10:59,799
Speaker 3: guess it's like one of the most immediate, like continuing

1372
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 3: aspects of this story. And it's like unclear how much

1373
01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:07,360
Speaker 3: this heightened fedral presence will last past the expiration of

1374
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:07,800
Speaker 3: the order.

1375
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:08,800
Speaker 10: So in a.

1376
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:12,120
Speaker 9: Press conference, I have to say, Bowser was pretty tight

1377
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:15,960
Speaker 9: lipped when asked directly about all of that, and so

1378
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:18,200
Speaker 9: a lot of it sounds like wade and see, like

1379
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 9: she really did not give clear answers, and so yeah,

1380
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:23,639
Speaker 9: I walked away from that presser being just disconfused, as

1381
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:26,599
Speaker 9: you probably are, just disconfused as listeners are. I do

1382
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:30,360
Speaker 9: think in part that speaks to the unprecedented nature of

1383
01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:32,800
Speaker 9: the way that Trump is dealing with DC right now.

1384
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:35,679
Speaker 9: Of like they might genuinely not know, but the fact

1385
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:37,920
Speaker 9: that the way that she has been so tight lipped.

1386
01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:39,880
Speaker 9: I hate giving this answer, but I think it's a

1387
01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:43,679
Speaker 9: wad and see kind of situation. Yeah, fair, Hi, this

1388
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:46,800
Speaker 9: is Future Bridget coming in on Monday night to say

1389
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:49,320
Speaker 9: that we actually got more clarity on the question of

1390
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:52,360
Speaker 9: whether or not police in DC would continue working with

1391
01:11:52,439 --> 01:11:57,599
Speaker 9: federal immigration officials after DC's crime emergency ended. DC's Mayor

1392
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:00,760
Speaker 9: Muriel Bowser was still being pretty tight lipped about this

1393
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:02,799
Speaker 9: when Gary and I were speaking about it on Friday,

1394
01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 9: but on Monday, September fifteenth, it was reported that Bowser

1395
01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:10,599
Speaker 9: had announced that d C's Police Department MPD would no

1396
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:14,519
Speaker 9: longer be assisting immigration officials with immigration enforcement the way

1397
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:18,320
Speaker 9: they had been during the crime emergency. Bowser said immigration

1398
01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:21,200
Speaker 9: enforcement is not what MPD does, and with the end

1399
01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:25,000
Speaker 9: of the emergency, it won't be what MPD does. Trump

1400
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:28,679
Speaker 9: did not like this, and on Monday, Trump renewed threats

1401
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:32,640
Speaker 9: to federalize DC's police again if the Department does not

1402
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:37,240
Speaker 9: cooperate with ICE, saying, quote under pressure from the radical

1403
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:41,200
Speaker 9: left Democrats, Mayor Muriel Bowser, who has presided over this violent,

1404
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:44,760
Speaker 9: criminal takeover of our capital for years, has informed the

1405
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:48,160
Speaker 9: federal government that the Metropolitan Police Department will no longer

1406
01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:52,520
Speaker 9: cooperate with ICE in removing and relocating dangerous illegal aliens.

1407
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 9: If I allowed this to happen, all Caps crime would

1408
01:12:56,280 --> 01:12:59,839
Speaker 9: come roaring back to the people and businesses of Washington

1409
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:01,880
Speaker 9: d All caps.

1410
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:02,360
Speaker 3: Don't worry.

1411
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:05,200
Speaker 10: I am with you and won't allow this to happen.

1412
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 9: I'll call a national emergency and federalize if necessary.

1413
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:11,200
Speaker 10: Three exclamation points.

1414
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:14,280
Speaker 9: And so I guess one of the big questions that

1415
01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:16,479
Speaker 9: I've been wrestling with is what does all of this

1416
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:20,160
Speaker 9: mean for the future of DC. There was a time

1417
01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:25,120
Speaker 9: where it felt like lawmakers had DC's back, but it's

1418
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 9: really become clear that the days of DC being able

1419
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:31,559
Speaker 9: to count on the Senate and Congress are over. I

1420
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 9: did an interview with a long time journalist here in DC,

1421
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:37,960
Speaker 9: Marxy Graves, and he reminded me that DC has really

1422
01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:42,519
Speaker 9: been the most reliable jurisdiction in the country there is

1423
01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:45,639
Speaker 9: for Democrats. There's no other place that has given more

1424
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:49,479
Speaker 9: electoral votes for president to Democrats every single election.

1425
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:51,759
Speaker 3: It's extremely consistent extreme.

1426
01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:53,720
Speaker 10: I mean, have you seen that map where it's the

1427
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:55,520
Speaker 10: election for.

1428
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:58,840
Speaker 9: Reagan and it's a whole big splotch of red and

1429
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:03,200
Speaker 9: only I think Minnesota and DC are the only splotch

1430
01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:08,120
Speaker 9: of blue. Like nobody backs Democrats like DC backs Democrats

1431
01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:11,920
Speaker 9: every single time. California can't say that, Massachusetts can't say that.

1432
01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:16,200
Speaker 9: And in return, the party has essentially abandoned us. They

1433
01:14:16,280 --> 01:14:21,479
Speaker 9: circulated messaging nationally telling Democrats to tread carefully about how

1434
01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:23,680
Speaker 9: to talk about what is clearly an attempt at a

1435
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:27,680
Speaker 9: fascist takeover of our city. DC has given Democrats this

1436
01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:31,080
Speaker 9: unwavering support since we had the ability to vote in

1437
01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:33,559
Speaker 9: presidential elections, which it hasn't been that long since, only

1438
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:36,479
Speaker 9: since the sixties, but still right like, and this is

1439
01:14:36,479 --> 01:14:39,639
Speaker 9: how they do us. And we have known for years

1440
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:42,920
Speaker 9: that Republicans like Mike Lee and others have had their

1441
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:46,759
Speaker 9: eye on DC. They want to overturn DC rules, overturn

1442
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:49,720
Speaker 9: DC laws, even things that have nothing to do with

1443
01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:51,759
Speaker 9: crime and public safety, things like abortion.

1444
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:54,439
Speaker 10: It is so clearly about control.

1445
01:14:54,479 --> 01:14:58,160
Speaker 9: They have been eyeing control of DC for many many many,

1446
01:14:58,200 --> 01:15:01,479
Speaker 9: many years, and now we have this big, wide, open,

1447
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:03,639
Speaker 9: breezy window allowing them to do that.

1448
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:07,960
Speaker 3: Is DC spiritually Midwestern? Because like it's sorry, that's an

1449
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:08,880
Speaker 3: insane question.

1450
01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:13,080
Speaker 10: Tell me more about what you mean by.

1451
01:15:12,920 --> 01:15:15,479
Speaker 3: This, because like, in some ways, you know, it is

1452
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:18,320
Speaker 3: like a coastal, elite place and it's like the you know,

1453
01:15:18,479 --> 01:15:22,439
Speaker 3: the heart of political power. But DC to be always

1454
01:15:22,479 --> 01:15:25,439
Speaker 3: has kind of had Midwest vibes. I don't I don't

1455
01:15:25,479 --> 01:15:28,120
Speaker 3: know how to express it any other way. Maybe to

1456
01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:30,000
Speaker 3: because so many people from the Midwest move to d

1457
01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:32,320
Speaker 3: C to do politics work. But I'm sure people from

1458
01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:34,479
Speaker 3: all over move to DC to do politics work. But

1459
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:37,679
Speaker 3: like DC and like Minneapolis feel like very similar cities

1460
01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:38,519
Speaker 3: to me in some ways.

1461
01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:39,599
Speaker 10: I have said this before.

1462
01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:40,840
Speaker 3: See that's what I'm saying.

1463
01:15:40,920 --> 01:15:41,680
Speaker 10: Yeah, I have.

1464
01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:44,360
Speaker 9: Said this before, Like I think there is something to

1465
01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:46,960
Speaker 9: this where And in that interview I did with Mark C.

1466
01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:48,400
Speaker 10: Graves, he kind of he kind of gets at it

1467
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:48,840
Speaker 10: a little bit.

1468
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:51,640
Speaker 9: But I do think that DC is the kind of

1469
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:53,960
Speaker 9: place where you can just sort of take for granted

1470
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:58,559
Speaker 9: that I will always live in this sort of progressive city.

1471
01:15:58,640 --> 01:15:59,920
Speaker 10: I will always sort of live in this.

1472
01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:03,200
Speaker 9: Like I think it's easy to take things like home

1473
01:16:03,320 --> 01:16:05,720
Speaker 9: rule in DC, for granted, And I think DC the

1474
01:16:05,800 --> 01:16:07,760
Speaker 9: nature of DC is a little bit weird that, as

1475
01:16:07,800 --> 01:16:10,840
Speaker 9: you kind of alluded to, it's a very transient city.

1476
01:16:11,360 --> 01:16:14,240
Speaker 9: And so there are people living in DC who have

1477
01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:17,240
Speaker 9: only known one Mayor Bowser because she's been mayor for

1478
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:18,000
Speaker 9: like ten years.

1479
01:16:18,120 --> 01:16:18,280
Speaker 5: Right.

1480
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:21,880
Speaker 9: They don't know Mayor Gray, they don't know Mayor Fenti,

1481
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:25,880
Speaker 9: they don't know how kind of tenuous a lot of

1482
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:29,080
Speaker 9: what holds DC together actually is. And it can be

1483
01:16:29,200 --> 01:16:31,960
Speaker 9: really easy when you're living in a city the historically

1484
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:37,240
Speaker 9: has enjoyed low unemployment, has been pretty moneyed, is pretty progressive.

1485
01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:39,960
Speaker 9: The kinds of fights that we were having in DC

1486
01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:43,240
Speaker 9: before all this started, they seem so quaint now, bike

1487
01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 9: lanes tipped minimum wage, like all of these you know,

1488
01:16:46,439 --> 01:16:48,640
Speaker 9: it is it is sort of like Minneapolis in a

1489
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:49,080
Speaker 9: kind of way.

1490
01:16:49,080 --> 01:16:50,040
Speaker 10: You're not You're not wrong.

1491
01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:53,160
Speaker 3: Well, I'm glad, I'm glad my vibes meter is still

1492
01:16:53,680 --> 01:16:54,720
Speaker 3: accurately attute.

1493
01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:59,439
Speaker 9: Yes, And I did want to spend a little bit

1494
01:16:59,479 --> 01:17:01,920
Speaker 9: of time talking about to protests and pushback that we've

1495
01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:05,240
Speaker 9: seen because DC has not taken this quietly. There was

1496
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:07,960
Speaker 9: a massive protest in March that I will say, I'm

1497
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:09,519
Speaker 9: a little sad that it didn't get.

1498
01:17:09,360 --> 01:17:10,679
Speaker 10: More national coverage.

1499
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:13,280
Speaker 9: Weirdly, it got a lot of international coverage, but not

1500
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:16,160
Speaker 9: a ton of national coverage, which is sort of part

1501
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:21,080
Speaker 9: and parcel for DC. So many national outlets only think

1502
01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:24,200
Speaker 9: about DC when it comes to federal implications, and when

1503
01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:26,400
Speaker 9: it comes to what's happening locally in our streets and

1504
01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:29,040
Speaker 9: at Malcolm X Park and all of that, they're like DC,

1505
01:17:29,200 --> 01:17:32,400
Speaker 9: who we don't know her? So like that protest was

1506
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:36,320
Speaker 9: quite moving. We also have local groups like Harriet's Wildest

1507
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:39,800
Speaker 9: Dreams and Free DC who are great resources. Free DC

1508
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:42,920
Speaker 9: a lot of their work has been at the community level,

1509
01:17:43,280 --> 01:17:46,560
Speaker 9: leading things like cop watching trainings, like training residents to

1510
01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:50,799
Speaker 9: film enforcement stops, which when you consider what Kayu Armis

1511
01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:53,639
Speaker 9: told me from the Washington Post about how these immigration

1512
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:57,400
Speaker 9: detensions and arrests are often just a black box. We've

1513
01:17:57,400 --> 01:18:01,000
Speaker 9: seen video where a resident is being detail by immigration

1514
01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:04,000
Speaker 9: officials and they are speaking to the person recording like

1515
01:18:04,040 --> 01:18:06,760
Speaker 9: please record this, please record this, you know, And so

1516
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:09,959
Speaker 9: I do think like things like that are super important

1517
01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:13,320
Speaker 9: when you're dealing with, you know, this black box dynamic

1518
01:18:13,400 --> 01:18:15,439
Speaker 9: of immigration detensions and arrests.

1519
01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:20,280
Speaker 10: We also have things like educating residents on their legal rights.

1520
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:22,559
Speaker 10: And this is like a weird saying in DC.

1521
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:26,200
Speaker 9: DC has a ton of parks, actually more parks than

1522
01:18:26,200 --> 01:18:29,439
Speaker 9: any other part of the country. We're consistently voted the

1523
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:33,040
Speaker 9: number one city in the country for parks, and so

1524
01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:37,080
Speaker 9: because DC is just a wonky place, sometimes you don't

1525
01:18:37,120 --> 01:18:40,600
Speaker 9: know if you're on federal versus city property. So you

1526
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:42,839
Speaker 9: can find yourself in a park that's just a tiny

1527
01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:47,000
Speaker 9: little triangle of grass. Oh no, you're actually on federal property.

1528
01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:49,320
Speaker 9: So if you get arrested there, you're actually in a

1529
01:18:49,360 --> 01:18:52,160
Speaker 9: federal jurisdiction, even though you're miles from the White House

1530
01:18:52,200 --> 01:18:53,519
Speaker 9: and you thought like, oh, I'm just hanging on in

1531
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:56,960
Speaker 9: a public park. So we have seen local activist groups

1532
01:18:57,000 --> 01:19:00,800
Speaker 9: and organized in groups really try to educate folks on

1533
01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:03,120
Speaker 9: their rights and some of those distinctions of like, hey,

1534
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:05,599
Speaker 9: if you commit a crime here, you're technically on federal

1535
01:19:05,640 --> 01:19:08,000
Speaker 9: property and you should understand that. And I wanted to

1536
01:19:08,439 --> 01:19:11,280
Speaker 9: mention this because I do think it's easier to think

1537
01:19:11,280 --> 01:19:15,680
Speaker 9: of resistance as this big, loud, visible thing happening in

1538
01:19:15,720 --> 01:19:19,120
Speaker 9: the streets and as moving and powerful as that big

1539
01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:21,920
Speaker 9: protest was so far. I think a lot of the

1540
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:25,600
Speaker 9: powerful resistance has been community oriented.

1541
01:19:25,720 --> 01:19:25,920
Speaker 7: Right.

1542
01:19:26,280 --> 01:19:30,200
Speaker 9: It's not as exciting as you know, being out on

1543
01:19:30,240 --> 01:19:32,959
Speaker 9: the streets necessarily, but it is no less important.

1544
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:37,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, The non flashy stuff often goes under recognized.

1545
01:19:37,479 --> 01:19:40,280
Speaker 9: Yeah. And I will also say that folks might know

1546
01:19:40,360 --> 01:19:43,560
Speaker 9: DC has its own style of music called go go,

1547
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:48,000
Speaker 9: which is sort of a fitty local artistic expression of

1548
01:19:48,280 --> 01:19:51,080
Speaker 9: music here. And I've even seen groups like Harriots and

1549
01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:54,960
Speaker 9: Wildest Dreams trying to organize joyful go go jams in

1550
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:59,439
Speaker 9: public spaces just to remind folks that joy is also

1551
01:19:59,439 --> 01:20:01,320
Speaker 9: part of brasils, Just so that the only thing that

1552
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:04,400
Speaker 9: we're talking about is not defending our cities and being

1553
01:20:04,479 --> 01:20:06,720
Speaker 9: on the defense, but also reconnecting to the things that

1554
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:11,439
Speaker 9: make our cities joyful and exciting and and and lovely

1555
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:14,400
Speaker 9: places to be. And I think it has been important

1556
01:20:14,479 --> 01:20:18,120
Speaker 9: to me, when you're sick to death of reporting about

1557
01:20:18,479 --> 01:20:21,519
Speaker 9: all of this, also getting to remember that.

1558
01:20:22,080 --> 01:20:22,960
Speaker 10: Joy is part of it.

1559
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:24,960
Speaker 9: That's like why we're doing this, so that we can

1560
01:20:25,200 --> 01:20:26,920
Speaker 9: experience joy in our cities.

1561
01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:32,160
Speaker 3: Yes, I agree, we will allow a little bit of joy,

1562
01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:35,719
Speaker 3: I suppose in this stace. Yeah, semi joyful time.

1563
01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:37,360
Speaker 10: Yeah, a tiny bit.

1564
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:39,439
Speaker 9: I will speaking of joy I wanted to end on

1565
01:20:39,439 --> 01:20:43,519
Speaker 9: one last teeny tiny little tidbit about resistance, which is

1566
01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:45,559
Speaker 9: that when I when we were talking last time, Gare,

1567
01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:48,639
Speaker 9: I told you I think this was like the day

1568
01:20:48,920 --> 01:20:51,639
Speaker 9: that the takeover was announced, there was that guy who

1569
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:56,160
Speaker 9: threw a sandwich at the Yes, yes, well they popped

1570
01:20:56,160 --> 01:21:00,519
Speaker 9: this dude on felony charges, but DC's grand jury failed

1571
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:02,760
Speaker 9: to indict, and now he's down to a misdemeanor, so

1572
01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:04,680
Speaker 9: he pled not guilty I think, just a couple of

1573
01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:06,480
Speaker 9: days ago to just a misdemeanor.

1574
01:21:06,520 --> 01:21:10,519
Speaker 10: So yeah, I mean grand jury's they used to say.

1575
01:21:10,360 --> 01:21:12,200
Speaker 9: Like, oh, you could get a grand jury ton byte

1576
01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:15,320
Speaker 9: a ham sandwich, I guess not if it's thrown at

1577
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:17,400
Speaker 9: a federal office, or you can't not in DC.

1578
01:21:18,439 --> 01:21:20,880
Speaker 3: It's just like the only good piece of grand jury

1579
01:21:20,920 --> 01:21:23,439
Speaker 3: news I have kind of ever heard in my life.

1580
01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:26,160
Speaker 3: Whenever I hear news of it a grand jury, it's

1581
01:21:26,160 --> 01:21:29,400
Speaker 3: always like terrible, like, oh no, that sounds awful. Yeah,

1582
01:21:29,400 --> 01:21:33,280
Speaker 3: this is uh the first, the first based grand jury

1583
01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:34,160
Speaker 3: I've ever seen.

1584
01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:36,000
Speaker 10: Yes, yes, I.

1585
01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:38,160
Speaker 9: Mean if you're listening in if you're listening in DC

1586
01:21:38,200 --> 01:21:39,519
Speaker 9: and you're on a grand jury, you know what to

1587
01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:39,880
Speaker 9: do well?

1588
01:21:39,920 --> 01:21:44,160
Speaker 10: Does Souths put it that way? But yeah, that's all

1589
01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:45,240
Speaker 10: I have really.

1590
01:21:45,400 --> 01:21:47,240
Speaker 9: I would just say, you know, if you happen to

1591
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:49,520
Speaker 9: be listening in a place that is not the district,

1592
01:21:50,080 --> 01:21:53,200
Speaker 9: we really need your voice. You know, when stuff happens,

1593
01:21:53,240 --> 01:21:55,960
Speaker 9: there's not really anybody I can call. We have a

1594
01:21:56,040 --> 01:21:58,240
Speaker 9: congressional representative, Eleanor Holmes Norton.

1595
01:21:58,800 --> 01:21:58,960
Speaker 7: Uh.

1596
01:22:00,160 --> 01:22:02,920
Speaker 10: She has been a.

1597
01:22:01,880 --> 01:22:07,320
Speaker 9: Lifelong fighter for d C and d c's self determination

1598
01:22:07,439 --> 01:22:11,080
Speaker 9: and civil rights. She is also i think the second

1599
01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:15,559
Speaker 9: oldest person in Congress, And I'll just say it's showing

1600
01:22:16,120 --> 01:22:18,840
Speaker 9: I think, you know, we don't really have a lot

1601
01:22:18,840 --> 01:22:22,720
Speaker 9: of people who are fighting for us and being a

1602
01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:26,280
Speaker 9: voice for us. And so yeah, stay checked in to

1603
01:22:26,439 --> 01:22:30,559
Speaker 9: d C. Even if Trump moves to you know, deploy

1604
01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:33,599
Speaker 9: national guards in other places, other kinds of takeovers. What's

1605
01:22:33,600 --> 01:22:35,960
Speaker 9: happening in DC is unique. It cannot happen in any

1606
01:22:36,040 --> 01:22:39,680
Speaker 9: other place in the country. And we're so often overlooked

1607
01:22:39,680 --> 01:22:44,480
Speaker 9: and ignored. And so if there are bills moving through Congress,

1608
01:22:44,720 --> 01:22:48,200
Speaker 9: call your Congress people and please advocate for the self

1609
01:22:48,200 --> 01:22:51,519
Speaker 9: determination of DC residents because we have no one to

1610
01:22:51,840 --> 01:22:54,439
Speaker 9: advocate for on our behalf, so please be our voice.

1611
01:22:54,640 --> 01:22:58,200
Speaker 3: Thank you for talking about DC once again. Bridget. Where

1612
01:22:58,240 --> 01:23:00,879
Speaker 3: can people find you online and your other shows?

1613
01:23:01,240 --> 01:23:04,519
Speaker 9: You can check me out on my podcast. There are

1614
01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:07,400
Speaker 9: no girls on the internet. On iHeartRadio, a co host

1615
01:23:07,400 --> 01:23:10,679
Speaker 9: a podcast called Citycast DC about local happenings and politics

1616
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:12,599
Speaker 9: and news and DC. You can check that out. I'm

1617
01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:15,479
Speaker 9: on Instagram at Bridget Marie DC. I'm on TikTok at

1618
01:23:15,479 --> 01:23:17,720
Speaker 9: Bridget Marie DC, and I'm on YouTube. There are no

1619
01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:18,920
Speaker 9: girls on the internet.

1620
01:23:19,040 --> 01:23:22,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, Okay, cool, I'm glad we figured that out,

1621
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:22,599
Speaker 3: all right.

1622
01:23:22,600 --> 01:23:24,920
Speaker 9: No, I just YouTube is is like a sesspool. I'm

1623
01:23:24,960 --> 01:23:26,200
Speaker 9: bringing my best out there.

1624
01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:43,280
Speaker 14: So true?

1625
01:23:44,560 --> 01:23:45,000
Speaker 3: What up?

1626
01:23:45,120 --> 01:23:47,639
Speaker 15: It could happen here? It's your favorite cousin prop. Y'all

1627
01:23:47,680 --> 01:23:49,519
Speaker 15: already know what it is. I'm about to black this

1628
01:23:49,680 --> 01:23:55,840
Speaker 15: mug up because y'all don't be blacking it up enough anyway.

1629
01:23:57,080 --> 01:24:01,519
Speaker 15: All over our country there's this sort of nar around crime,

1630
01:24:01,640 --> 01:24:05,840
Speaker 15: which is verifiably false. We also understand that a lot

1631
01:24:05,840 --> 01:24:09,280
Speaker 15: of times the feeling of crime and safety is a

1632
01:24:09,280 --> 01:24:11,120
Speaker 15: lot of times it's a vibe like it's kind of

1633
01:24:11,120 --> 01:24:13,200
Speaker 15: how it feels. You could tell me the crime rates

1634
01:24:13,200 --> 01:24:16,080
Speaker 15: is down across America, but in my city, if I

1635
01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:19,040
Speaker 15: still feel like you know I'm saying not safe or safe,

1636
01:24:19,080 --> 01:24:21,880
Speaker 15: you know your perception of that. Anyway, what I'm trying

1637
01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:28,200
Speaker 15: to make is there are truly verifiable, data driven ways

1638
01:24:28,520 --> 01:24:31,759
Speaker 15: to actually create safety and reduce harm in a city,

1639
01:24:32,400 --> 01:24:36,400
Speaker 15: and a lot of that is around trust and services.

1640
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:38,920
Speaker 15: So what I decided to do, y'all is to bring

1641
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:43,000
Speaker 15: y'all who I lovingly called the nipsey hustle of Saint Louis,

1642
01:24:44,120 --> 01:24:46,439
Speaker 15: Ladies and gentleman. Can I introduce you to the homeboy

1643
01:24:46,479 --> 01:24:49,600
Speaker 15: thistle with the red shirt on? Well, look, man, you

1644
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:50,800
Speaker 15: already flamed up.

1645
01:24:51,160 --> 01:24:55,160
Speaker 3: I wasn't going to bring up the flame of it all.

1646
01:24:56,479 --> 01:25:00,000
Speaker 7: I'm like, gotta throw the red shirt off of problem.

1647
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:01,479
Speaker 7: Oh man, happy to.

1648
01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:04,120
Speaker 3: Be here, Man, We happy to have you.

1649
01:25:04,160 --> 01:25:04,280
Speaker 8: Bro.

1650
01:25:04,360 --> 01:25:05,920
Speaker 15: That was the one that's funny because that's the one

1651
01:25:06,080 --> 01:25:07,559
Speaker 15: asterisk next to your name with me?

1652
01:25:08,200 --> 01:25:09,639
Speaker 7: Is all that red you beware?

1653
01:25:10,760 --> 01:25:11,280
Speaker 3: Hey man?

1654
01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:14,840
Speaker 15: He'd be like, Yeah, I know, you gotta be who

1655
01:25:14,840 --> 01:25:18,439
Speaker 15: you're I would not respect you were you to not

1656
01:25:18,600 --> 01:25:19,719
Speaker 15: be flying your whoop.

1657
01:25:19,840 --> 01:25:20,479
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.

1658
01:25:20,960 --> 01:25:23,719
Speaker 7: So I appreciate retired.

1659
01:25:24,280 --> 01:25:26,479
Speaker 3: He said, Look, that's what I love it. We're gonna

1660
01:25:26,479 --> 01:25:28,320
Speaker 3: get into it. So we're gonna get into it. So

1661
01:25:29,240 --> 01:25:32,400
Speaker 3: this is like I said, the nipsey Elsa was Saint Louis.

1662
01:25:32,479 --> 01:25:35,439
Speaker 15: When we first met, I had no idea people out

1663
01:25:35,479 --> 01:25:37,599
Speaker 15: there really actually said yes.

1664
01:25:38,040 --> 01:25:40,360
Speaker 3: I thought that was a joke. I thought y'all was

1665
01:25:40,439 --> 01:25:41,120
Speaker 3: doing too much.

1666
01:25:41,160 --> 01:25:42,600
Speaker 15: And then I met this and he was like, oh,

1667
01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:44,160
Speaker 15: it's over there right thor her. I was like, wait,

1668
01:25:44,280 --> 01:25:45,120
Speaker 15: y'all really say.

1669
01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:47,120
Speaker 7: That, no joke at all, that's really y'all.

1670
01:25:47,960 --> 01:25:50,680
Speaker 5: That's really how we talked. We really talk. And the

1671
01:25:50,760 --> 01:25:53,879
Speaker 5: crazy thing is I slowed down talking.

1672
01:25:54,240 --> 01:25:54,800
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.

1673
01:25:54,880 --> 01:25:58,439
Speaker 5: Sometimes it'd be like here in there. But if I

1674
01:25:58,680 --> 01:26:00,400
Speaker 5: get to go away and be like her, I heard

1675
01:26:01,479 --> 01:26:02,280
Speaker 5: heard yo.

1676
01:26:02,320 --> 01:26:02,840
Speaker 3: Yup, yup?

1677
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:05,120
Speaker 7: Call switch? All right? Perfect.

1678
01:26:05,240 --> 01:26:07,920
Speaker 15: So first of all, let's tell them what you do now,

1679
01:26:08,120 --> 01:26:10,599
Speaker 15: so kind of give them the brief introduction who you are,

1680
01:26:10,680 --> 01:26:13,280
Speaker 15: what you're doing, and then we'll go to the origin story.

1681
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:16,840
Speaker 5: So, like you said, my name this Travis Tyler. That's

1682
01:26:16,840 --> 01:26:22,439
Speaker 5: what my mama named me from Saint Louis, Missouri. And man,

1683
01:26:22,560 --> 01:26:24,920
Speaker 5: I'll be trying to figure out what am I sometimes

1684
01:26:26,160 --> 01:26:29,280
Speaker 5: like for real, even when I was doing music, I

1685
01:26:29,360 --> 01:26:31,200
Speaker 5: never felt like I was a rapper.

1686
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:34,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, I felt like I was an artist, you know.

1687
01:26:34,439 --> 01:26:36,559
Speaker 5: And I still feel like I'm an artist in the

1688
01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:40,360
Speaker 5: sense of the word now because I create things, yeah,

1689
01:26:40,600 --> 01:26:44,360
Speaker 5: from inspiration, you know, alchemy, I create from the mind.

1690
01:26:44,479 --> 01:26:45,200
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah.

1691
01:26:45,400 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 5: But I'm not what you would consider an activist. I'm

1692
01:26:49,120 --> 01:26:53,799
Speaker 5: not a politician, but like I'm always in the middle

1693
01:26:53,840 --> 01:26:57,479
Speaker 5: of something that's happening. Yeah, And that's how I've always been.

1694
01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:02,840
Speaker 5: And I have a passion for the youth of urban community,

1695
01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:06,320
Speaker 5: especially black youth. I have a passion for black men,

1696
01:27:06,600 --> 01:27:10,519
Speaker 5: especially black men that are either trying to escape the

1697
01:27:10,560 --> 01:27:14,320
Speaker 5: reality of street life or black men that are being

1698
01:27:14,360 --> 01:27:18,360
Speaker 5: re entered into society from prison. I have a passion

1699
01:27:18,439 --> 01:27:22,120
Speaker 5: for the rebuilding of the black community. So my whole life,

1700
01:27:22,120 --> 01:27:24,920
Speaker 5: that's pretty much been my thing, no matter what space

1701
01:27:24,960 --> 01:27:27,880
Speaker 5: I've landed in, it's always been my thing when it

1702
01:27:27,920 --> 01:27:28,760
Speaker 5: comes to community.

1703
01:27:29,040 --> 01:27:32,320
Speaker 7: And so that's it, man, Like I'm wearing.

1704
01:27:32,439 --> 01:27:36,680
Speaker 5: The shirt is actually like one hundred from my mentoring program,

1705
01:27:36,920 --> 01:27:41,559
Speaker 5: my mentor inner city youth ages teen to seventeen, not

1706
01:27:41,760 --> 01:27:44,360
Speaker 5: just setting up some of the mentor them, but creating

1707
01:27:44,360 --> 01:27:50,200
Speaker 5: the rights of passage, creating a pathway intentional pathway. I

1708
01:27:50,240 --> 01:27:52,280
Speaker 5: think a lot of time with inner city youth, well,

1709
01:27:52,320 --> 01:27:54,080
Speaker 5: I ain't even gonna say inner city youth, especially with

1710
01:27:54,120 --> 01:27:57,960
Speaker 5: fatherless yes young men, whether wherever they're in the world,

1711
01:27:58,560 --> 01:28:02,000
Speaker 5: whether it's the suburban nameghborhood or the inner city or

1712
01:28:02,240 --> 01:28:07,760
Speaker 5: rural or third world country. With fatherless young men, they

1713
01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:13,920
Speaker 5: tend to lack, some of us, a passage way of oh,

1714
01:28:14,040 --> 01:28:16,320
Speaker 5: this is who you can become, this is what you

1715
01:28:16,439 --> 01:28:19,360
Speaker 5: need to do to become it, because there's no one

1716
01:28:19,560 --> 01:28:21,800
Speaker 5: to really guide them. So with our mentor program, that's

1717
01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:24,720
Speaker 5: my goal, not just the mentor young men and send

1718
01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:27,280
Speaker 5: them home and try to keep them out of trouble,

1719
01:28:27,479 --> 01:28:30,120
Speaker 5: but help them identify who they are and who they

1720
01:28:30,120 --> 01:28:32,559
Speaker 5: were born to be and help them get to that place.

1721
01:28:32,960 --> 01:28:36,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you still got that group home joint, right.

1722
01:28:36,439 --> 01:28:38,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, so the group home. It's funny we're going to

1723
01:28:38,680 --> 01:28:42,559
Speaker 5: interview now. I just stepped down from their Friday Okay.

1724
01:28:42,600 --> 01:28:44,280
Speaker 5: But it was a good thing. It wasn't a negative.

1725
01:28:44,360 --> 01:28:47,040
Speaker 5: So I ran it for like a year and a half,

1726
01:28:47,840 --> 01:28:52,480
Speaker 5: helped rebuild the program, brought it up to the modern age, staffed,

1727
01:28:52,840 --> 01:28:55,839
Speaker 5: creating new things for the boys. Learned a lot myself

1728
01:28:55,880 --> 01:28:59,559
Speaker 5: in the process and now I'm going full throttle into

1729
01:28:59,680 --> 01:29:03,640
Speaker 5: shape out my Flight one hundred program. Yeah, because the

1730
01:29:03,840 --> 01:29:06,439
Speaker 5: end goal, like one of my end goals is to

1731
01:29:06,840 --> 01:29:10,200
Speaker 5: build a school. Yeah, Flight one hundred Academy all boys,

1732
01:29:10,560 --> 01:29:13,439
Speaker 5: keep the same voys from kindergarten to twelfth grade. Wow,

1733
01:29:13,840 --> 01:29:14,719
Speaker 5: that's my mission.

1734
01:29:15,120 --> 01:29:15,599
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1735
01:29:15,960 --> 01:29:20,640
Speaker 15: What I truly enjoyed about what you're doing is at

1736
01:29:20,720 --> 01:29:22,920
Speaker 15: least with the group form and the mentoring thing is

1737
01:29:23,200 --> 01:29:26,240
Speaker 15: the trust factor in the sense that you know, when

1738
01:29:26,280 --> 01:29:29,160
Speaker 15: you get involved, especially in the juvenile system, like they

1739
01:29:29,200 --> 01:29:32,400
Speaker 15: tell you that your record sealed, they say.

1740
01:29:32,240 --> 01:29:35,720
Speaker 3: That, Yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying, But like

1741
01:29:36,360 --> 01:29:38,320
Speaker 3: in practice, it's not the thing.

1742
01:29:38,479 --> 01:29:42,520
Speaker 15: So like I think oftentimes if there's a step between

1743
01:29:43,320 --> 01:29:46,479
Speaker 15: getting into juvie or into central, you know what I'm saying,

1744
01:29:46,479 --> 01:29:48,680
Speaker 15: if there's an in between step, if somebody could come

1745
01:29:48,720 --> 01:29:50,719
Speaker 15: in the middle of that and stay look, let little

1746
01:29:50,720 --> 01:29:52,840
Speaker 15: homie stay with us, you know what I'm saying. Or

1747
01:29:53,400 --> 01:29:56,000
Speaker 15: you know, let's say you caught a case and then

1748
01:29:56,320 --> 01:29:59,080
Speaker 15: every once in a while, like obviously both of us

1749
01:29:59,080 --> 01:30:01,040
Speaker 15: can say this from like per and experience, every once

1750
01:30:01,080 --> 01:30:04,200
Speaker 15: in a while you might score a judge on a

1751
01:30:04,200 --> 01:30:06,479
Speaker 15: good day, you know, you score a judge on a

1752
01:30:06,479 --> 01:30:08,479
Speaker 15: good day and they say, I'll tell you what I

1753
01:30:08,520 --> 01:30:10,720
Speaker 15: heard of this program over on the other side of town.

1754
01:30:10,800 --> 01:30:13,320
Speaker 15: You could either do this, you have said, or you

1755
01:30:13,360 --> 01:30:15,400
Speaker 15: could go to Camp Rocket, you know out here, that's.

1756
01:30:15,240 --> 01:30:15,880
Speaker 3: What it was like.

1757
01:30:15,920 --> 01:30:17,720
Speaker 15: You can go to Rocky or you can go to

1758
01:30:17,760 --> 01:30:21,040
Speaker 15: this program, and like ten out of ten, I'm gonna

1759
01:30:21,080 --> 01:30:24,600
Speaker 15: be like, let's go to this program. But yeah, sometimes

1760
01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:28,479
Speaker 15: that program be just as bad, you know what I'm saying.

1761
01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:32,000
Speaker 15: But if it's ran by somebody who has been through

1762
01:30:32,040 --> 01:30:35,240
Speaker 15: the system, who understands it and knows that, like, here

1763
01:30:35,360 --> 01:30:37,840
Speaker 15: are the traps, Here's are the ways for which I

1764
01:30:37,920 --> 01:30:40,519
Speaker 15: know I was taking advantage of I was abused, And

1765
01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:41,720
Speaker 15: this is what we're not gonna do here.

1766
01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:44,280
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. The goal is for you

1767
01:30:44,320 --> 01:30:45,360
Speaker 3: to never come back to this.

1768
01:30:45,720 --> 01:30:46,840
Speaker 7: You make a valid point.

1769
01:30:47,120 --> 01:30:49,160
Speaker 5: One of the reasons I believe God allowed me to

1770
01:30:49,160 --> 01:30:51,800
Speaker 5: go back into the space with the group home was

1771
01:30:51,960 --> 01:30:56,720
Speaker 5: bro Honestly, you will be surprised how I'm trying to

1772
01:30:56,760 --> 01:30:59,280
Speaker 5: word this in a good way, but I don't think it.

1773
01:30:59,280 --> 01:31:02,240
Speaker 16: Is one you say however you want, you will be

1774
01:31:02,360 --> 01:31:09,839
Speaker 16: surprised how messed up the foster curs system is yeah, yeah,

1775
01:31:10,040 --> 01:31:10,759
Speaker 16: a lot of these.

1776
01:31:10,680 --> 01:31:12,400
Speaker 7: Kids get pulled out of their homes.

1777
01:31:13,280 --> 01:31:15,439
Speaker 5: So the group home that I was at mostly all

1778
01:31:15,439 --> 01:31:18,280
Speaker 5: of our boys they came from environments where they have

1779
01:31:18,360 --> 01:31:21,519
Speaker 5: been taken from their parents, and so I was run

1780
01:31:21,560 --> 01:31:22,960
Speaker 5: of the transition to living group home.

1781
01:31:23,080 --> 01:31:26,040
Speaker 7: So my objective, my daily task.

1782
01:31:25,960 --> 01:31:27,800
Speaker 5: Was to teach a group of young men how to

1783
01:31:27,920 --> 01:31:30,840
Speaker 5: transition into manhood, how to go out.

1784
01:31:30,720 --> 01:31:33,080
Speaker 3: On their own, pay their bills, live on their own.

1785
01:31:33,160 --> 01:31:33,479
Speaker 3: All this.

1786
01:31:34,160 --> 01:31:35,599
Speaker 7: You'll be surprised though.

1787
01:31:36,200 --> 01:31:39,000
Speaker 5: These kids get pulled from their homes and their parents

1788
01:31:39,800 --> 01:31:42,280
Speaker 5: and they're saying to them, oh, we're going to send

1789
01:31:42,280 --> 01:31:46,559
Speaker 5: you somewhere better, better, yeah, yeah, yeah, and the places

1790
01:31:46,600 --> 01:31:49,920
Speaker 5: that they send them to do more harm to them

1791
01:31:49,960 --> 01:31:50,559
Speaker 5: than their home.

1792
01:31:51,240 --> 01:31:54,040
Speaker 7: Like they're sitting in there with people that are worse than.

1793
01:31:53,960 --> 01:31:57,320
Speaker 5: Their parents and one day don't have a voice to

1794
01:31:57,360 --> 01:31:58,200
Speaker 5: advocate for them.

1795
01:31:58,360 --> 01:32:00,960
Speaker 7: So here I am right now. It's crazy.

1796
01:32:01,000 --> 01:32:02,760
Speaker 5: A few months back, I was like, I'm gonna talk

1797
01:32:02,760 --> 01:32:04,599
Speaker 5: about this at every chance I get, which is crazy.

1798
01:32:05,160 --> 01:32:08,840
Speaker 5: They don't have nobody to advocate for them, because I'm

1799
01:32:08,840 --> 01:32:10,400
Speaker 5: sure there are people that have been through the foster

1800
01:32:10,439 --> 01:32:13,160
Speaker 5: care system, but for some reason, people see that stigma.

1801
01:32:13,200 --> 01:32:15,640
Speaker 5: They're probably celebrities that have been through foster curve, but

1802
01:32:15,680 --> 01:32:18,240
Speaker 5: they see it as a stigma, like, oh, they didn't

1803
01:32:18,240 --> 01:32:20,000
Speaker 5: want to talk about that part all my parent gave

1804
01:32:20,040 --> 01:32:21,640
Speaker 5: me up. I don't know who my parent is. I

1805
01:32:21,720 --> 01:32:24,160
Speaker 5: was in you know, whatever the case is. They don't

1806
01:32:24,200 --> 01:32:27,640
Speaker 5: have nobody to advocate. Yeah, these kids, a lot of

1807
01:32:27,680 --> 01:32:32,160
Speaker 5: these kids are treated so poorly in these places that

1808
01:32:32,840 --> 01:32:36,320
Speaker 5: the loss should step in. People tend to not understand

1809
01:32:36,320 --> 01:32:37,639
Speaker 5: why they act the way they act.

1810
01:32:38,400 --> 01:32:39,120
Speaker 7: But you got to.

1811
01:32:39,080 --> 01:32:42,640
Speaker 5: Think, ultimately, you are walking into a child's hole and

1812
01:32:42,680 --> 01:32:43,800
Speaker 5: you're kidnapping them.

1813
01:32:43,960 --> 01:32:45,000
Speaker 7: That's what you're doing. Really.

1814
01:32:45,160 --> 01:32:48,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, So if I come to your house at

1815
01:32:48,240 --> 01:32:51,400
Speaker 5: eight nine o'clock at night. When I was fourteen, me,

1816
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:55,880
Speaker 5: my cousins, my brother, a bunch of my siblings were

1817
01:32:55,880 --> 01:33:01,000
Speaker 5: taken from my mom and my aunt right from across

1818
01:33:01,040 --> 01:33:05,120
Speaker 5: the street because I was over my friend's house. Holye

1819
01:33:05,200 --> 01:33:09,240
Speaker 5: swooped up. Social workers swooped up. It's nighttime. You go

1820
01:33:09,400 --> 01:33:13,320
Speaker 5: into somebody's house, you take their child. They don't know

1821
01:33:13,400 --> 01:33:17,000
Speaker 5: where you're taking their child to. The child doesn't know

1822
01:33:17,040 --> 01:33:20,760
Speaker 5: where they're going, and then they get to the residential

1823
01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:23,320
Speaker 5: or the group home and they acting a fool, and

1824
01:33:23,360 --> 01:33:26,519
Speaker 5: you got a bunch of unqualified, untrained staff members there.

1825
01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:28,400
Speaker 5: They don't know how to deal with them neither. That's

1826
01:33:28,479 --> 01:33:30,840
Speaker 5: just looking for a job. And when they get there,

1827
01:33:31,080 --> 01:33:33,639
Speaker 5: they talking about why they acting like this. Come on, man,

1828
01:33:33,760 --> 01:33:35,760
Speaker 5: if somebody just came to your house and took you

1829
01:33:35,840 --> 01:33:38,080
Speaker 5: from your parent, you would be acting the same way.

1830
01:33:38,120 --> 01:33:40,200
Speaker 5: And if you weren't, you saw it. Basically, let's just

1831
01:33:40,240 --> 01:33:42,360
Speaker 5: be rial. Yeah, yeah, you just saw. You're gonna sit

1832
01:33:42,400 --> 01:33:45,320
Speaker 5: there and fall like these kids. They acting out because

1833
01:33:45,640 --> 01:33:49,400
Speaker 5: they've been abducted basically in their mind, and even.

1834
01:33:49,200 --> 01:33:50,599
Speaker 3: Pat way beyond that point.

1835
01:33:51,160 --> 01:33:54,560
Speaker 5: I know most people have seen if you hadn't the

1836
01:33:54,960 --> 01:33:58,519
Speaker 5: movie Don't Sit where they talk about the Shackling family

1837
01:33:58,560 --> 01:34:01,080
Speaker 5: and how they basically met dough fans out of the

1838
01:34:01,080 --> 01:34:04,439
Speaker 5: whole West Virginia with oxy coote you know oxy code

1839
01:34:04,439 --> 01:34:06,160
Speaker 5: ain't how do you want to pronounce it? And they

1840
01:34:06,240 --> 01:34:09,760
Speaker 5: showing the movie how these doctors were getting these kickbacks

1841
01:34:10,160 --> 01:34:14,960
Speaker 5: for introducing the drugs to the patients in West Virginia.

1842
01:34:15,040 --> 01:34:17,280
Speaker 7: Bro, who better to prack.

1843
01:34:17,040 --> 01:34:21,160
Speaker 3: Them on with drugs than children?

1844
01:34:21,840 --> 01:34:25,080
Speaker 7: We ain't got no parents that nobody cares them out.

1845
01:34:25,400 --> 01:34:28,400
Speaker 17: Yeah, bro, they take these kids and they put them

1846
01:34:28,400 --> 01:34:33,360
Speaker 17: into the system three four, five years old, and they

1847
01:34:33,479 --> 01:34:37,040
Speaker 17: start doping them from day one man.

1848
01:34:36,840 --> 01:34:40,479
Speaker 5: Five dose dough over and over and over. Switch them out,

1849
01:34:40,479 --> 01:34:42,120
Speaker 5: put them on something else. Well, let me see how

1850
01:34:42,160 --> 01:34:44,200
Speaker 5: they don't work. Switch them out, put them on something else.

1851
01:34:44,360 --> 01:34:46,639
Speaker 5: By the time they got to me at eighteen years old,

1852
01:34:46,720 --> 01:34:51,320
Speaker 5: they like bro frime, yeah, fried, and then you got

1853
01:34:51,479 --> 01:34:54,200
Speaker 5: you got case workers. They don't care about the kids.

1854
01:34:54,200 --> 01:34:56,160
Speaker 5: They don't call, they don't come see them, they don't

1855
01:34:56,160 --> 01:34:58,080
Speaker 5: pick them up, they don't do none of these things.

1856
01:34:58,400 --> 01:35:00,120
Speaker 7: And the kids sitting there feeling like they don't got

1857
01:35:00,120 --> 01:35:00,880
Speaker 7: nobody in nowhere.

1858
01:35:01,160 --> 01:35:03,760
Speaker 5: So my main space that I function in right now,

1859
01:35:03,840 --> 01:35:06,519
Speaker 5: especially for them, is to be an advocate. Every chance

1860
01:35:06,560 --> 01:35:08,759
Speaker 5: that I get, I'm gonna talk about it so people

1861
01:35:08,760 --> 01:35:11,000
Speaker 5: could put eyes on it. But also that's one of

1862
01:35:11,080 --> 01:35:13,280
Speaker 5: the reasons that I'm building the things that I'm building,

1863
01:35:13,680 --> 01:35:16,639
Speaker 5: so that we can have a space where it's like now,

1864
01:35:16,680 --> 01:35:18,240
Speaker 5: you don't have to go to because there are a

1865
01:35:18,280 --> 01:35:20,800
Speaker 5: lot of people I already have the good ideas they have.

1866
01:35:21,040 --> 01:35:24,600
Speaker 5: There are some good programs. Yeah, like there are good programs.

1867
01:35:24,920 --> 01:35:27,880
Speaker 5: Program that I was at it's been around four hundred

1868
01:35:27,880 --> 01:35:30,880
Speaker 5: and sixty eight years. It's a decent program So there

1869
01:35:31,320 --> 01:35:33,320
Speaker 5: are good programs that are out here, but the whole

1870
01:35:33,320 --> 01:35:35,760
Speaker 5: system as a hall, it needs an overhall. So when

1871
01:35:35,800 --> 01:35:37,800
Speaker 5: I had an opportunity to peep behind the veil, I

1872
01:35:37,880 --> 01:35:39,880
Speaker 5: was like, you know, you know me, I go and

1873
01:35:39,960 --> 01:35:40,599
Speaker 5: get the talking.

1874
01:35:41,320 --> 01:35:44,200
Speaker 15: Yeah, I think obviously you talking that talk. But like

1875
01:35:44,439 --> 01:35:47,240
Speaker 15: one of the things that you know, in the humanitarian

1876
01:35:47,320 --> 01:35:49,840
Speaker 15: space that I like I serve in, they have a

1877
01:35:49,880 --> 01:35:53,000
Speaker 15: saying that says peace works at the speed of trust,

1878
01:35:53,439 --> 01:35:56,080
Speaker 15: you know. So like, even with all these good programs

1879
01:35:56,120 --> 01:36:10,360
Speaker 15: in different places, it's like, if these kids don't trust you, Yeah,

1880
01:36:10,400 --> 01:36:13,559
Speaker 15: you brought up being removed from your family's house when

1881
01:36:13,600 --> 01:36:15,800
Speaker 15: you was real young. I love to talk a little

1882
01:36:15,800 --> 01:36:18,760
Speaker 15: bit about about the origin story because obviously you wasn't

1883
01:36:18,800 --> 01:36:21,040
Speaker 15: always talking like this, you know what I'm saying, Yeah,

1884
01:36:21,760 --> 01:36:25,360
Speaker 15: And I think that that legitimacy, you know, or that

1885
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:28,360
Speaker 15: realness that I'm sure no matter how doped up or

1886
01:36:28,360 --> 01:36:30,840
Speaker 15: how painful them kids are like they can look behind

1887
01:36:30,880 --> 01:36:31,600
Speaker 15: your eyes.

1888
01:36:31,360 --> 01:36:33,040
Speaker 3: And say, okay, but he knows.

1889
01:36:33,600 --> 01:36:35,479
Speaker 15: Yeah, So give me a little bit of that, get

1890
01:36:35,479 --> 01:36:38,240
Speaker 15: a little bit of the retired whooping all that.

1891
01:36:38,720 --> 01:36:42,919
Speaker 5: Oh it's funny. I got this video on my page

1892
01:36:43,360 --> 01:36:46,080
Speaker 5: that I posted. I started off saying, ain't nobody coming

1893
01:36:46,080 --> 01:36:48,280
Speaker 5: to save you? Yeah, And at the end of it,

1894
01:36:48,360 --> 01:36:50,639
Speaker 5: I go through this story about being in the group

1895
01:36:50,720 --> 01:36:53,559
Speaker 5: home and all of that, and I say, have y'all

1896
01:36:53,600 --> 01:36:56,040
Speaker 5: ever seen the Marvel movies where they like, it's your

1897
01:36:56,080 --> 01:36:56,960
Speaker 5: origin story.

1898
01:36:57,200 --> 01:36:59,360
Speaker 3: I'm like, that's my origin story. Yeah.

1899
01:36:59,560 --> 01:37:02,200
Speaker 5: So for me, that part of the group home was

1900
01:37:02,240 --> 01:37:07,360
Speaker 5: significant in my life, real, real significant. So before I

1901
01:37:07,400 --> 01:37:09,880
Speaker 5: went to the group home, I was already outside, like

1902
01:37:10,880 --> 01:37:12,760
Speaker 5: there are a lot of things that I've experienced in

1903
01:37:12,760 --> 01:37:15,400
Speaker 5: this world that when I look back, I just be like, Man,

1904
01:37:15,439 --> 01:37:15,960
Speaker 5: that's crazy.

1905
01:37:16,000 --> 01:37:16,120
Speaker 3: Bro.

1906
01:37:16,120 --> 01:37:18,639
Speaker 5: When I was fourteen years old, me and my girlfriend

1907
01:37:18,640 --> 01:37:19,360
Speaker 5: were living together.

1908
01:37:19,520 --> 01:37:19,920
Speaker 7: Crazy.

1909
01:37:20,040 --> 01:37:25,679
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I slept in the beg fourteen every night.

1910
01:37:25,800 --> 01:37:31,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, with my girlfriend at fourteen, Like we basically lived together,

1911
01:37:31,720 --> 01:37:33,200
Speaker 5: me and her in a room, her mom in the

1912
01:37:33,200 --> 01:37:37,400
Speaker 5: next room. And so I was because of my mom's issues,

1913
01:37:37,640 --> 01:37:42,200
Speaker 5: like I've been at this point, I've been my sole provider,

1914
01:37:42,479 --> 01:37:45,439
Speaker 5: you know, minus a short period of time her and

1915
01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:47,640
Speaker 5: her Whether it's like I went to live with my

1916
01:37:47,720 --> 01:37:50,799
Speaker 5: daddy and he sent me back off with my grandma

1917
01:37:50,960 --> 01:37:53,559
Speaker 5: for a short period time. My grandfather, all of those

1918
01:37:53,560 --> 01:37:55,479
Speaker 5: were short periods of time. But since I was like twelve,

1919
01:37:55,560 --> 01:37:57,840
Speaker 5: I've been taking care of myself. So I was outside early,

1920
01:37:58,439 --> 01:38:02,480
Speaker 5: like hustling making money so I can professional myself. Yeah, fourteen,

1921
01:38:02,760 --> 01:38:05,720
Speaker 5: Like I said, I was living with my girlfriend. We

1922
01:38:05,720 --> 01:38:08,160
Speaker 5: were sleeping in the same bed. When I went to

1923
01:38:08,640 --> 01:38:13,160
Speaker 5: the group home, my mom, the caseworker and the police

1924
01:38:13,320 --> 01:38:16,640
Speaker 5: came and got me from her house and put me

1925
01:38:16,680 --> 01:38:19,439
Speaker 5: in a car. Drove me two hours out of Saint

1926
01:38:19,520 --> 01:38:22,599
Speaker 5: Louis to a wrench little house out in the woods.

1927
01:38:22,720 --> 01:38:26,240
Speaker 7: Yeah, town full of white people, Like I was a

1928
01:38:26,280 --> 01:38:26,960
Speaker 7: hoodie kid.

1929
01:38:27,160 --> 01:38:29,519
Speaker 5: Like when they got me, true story, I had on

1930
01:38:29,640 --> 01:38:32,960
Speaker 5: Dickey overalls like the zip of the brown boy, yeah,

1931
01:38:33,080 --> 01:38:35,599
Speaker 5: and some boots like a bey Yeah.

1932
01:38:35,600 --> 01:38:38,240
Speaker 15: The Saint Louis like I don't know, like the influence

1933
01:38:38,280 --> 01:38:42,080
Speaker 15: of like West Coast culture, and it was very big

1934
01:38:42,160 --> 01:38:43,920
Speaker 15: out there. So when he was like, yo, I'm zipped

1935
01:38:44,000 --> 01:38:46,160
Speaker 15: up and the beanie and the dickies, it's like you

1936
01:38:46,200 --> 01:38:47,960
Speaker 15: would think you was in South Central Yeah.

1937
01:38:48,200 --> 01:38:51,160
Speaker 5: Yeah. So I had on a beie, the zip up

1938
01:38:51,200 --> 01:38:54,720
Speaker 5: Dickey boy like yeah boot. So they took me out

1939
01:38:54,760 --> 01:38:57,080
Speaker 5: to the woods and man, I got there and when

1940
01:38:57,080 --> 01:38:59,360
Speaker 5: I got there, it was the first time in my life,

1941
01:38:59,400 --> 01:39:03,240
Speaker 5: I think I feel that level of desperation and hopelessness

1942
01:39:04,160 --> 01:39:05,880
Speaker 5: because I was supposed to stay there until I was

1943
01:39:05,920 --> 01:39:09,160
Speaker 5: eighteen or twenty one. Those were their words based off

1944
01:39:09,240 --> 01:39:11,880
Speaker 5: my behavior. I'm fourteen, so I'm in my head like

1945
01:39:11,920 --> 01:39:15,240
Speaker 5: I'm frona beer six years Like. So I'm meeting all

1946
01:39:15,280 --> 01:39:17,479
Speaker 5: these kids. They like, I'm been here since I was

1947
01:39:18,120 --> 01:39:20,280
Speaker 5: this age, and I've been in the system since I

1948
01:39:20,400 --> 01:39:22,680
Speaker 5: was this and they moved me here and they so

1949
01:39:22,760 --> 01:39:26,080
Speaker 5: I'm hearing all these different stories from different people.

1950
01:39:26,080 --> 01:39:28,360
Speaker 7: And I'm just like, dang, it's crazy, you know.

1951
01:39:29,000 --> 01:39:32,040
Speaker 5: And then one day, it was right after Christmas, I'm

1952
01:39:32,040 --> 01:39:35,040
Speaker 5: sitting in her hindsight, I got a different perspective of it. Now.

1953
01:39:35,040 --> 01:39:37,559
Speaker 7: It's this kid I never forget him. His name was Roger.

1954
01:39:38,600 --> 01:39:40,600
Speaker 5: When I first met him the very first day that

1955
01:39:40,640 --> 01:39:42,720
Speaker 5: I came, he sat down beside me and he said, Man,

1956
01:39:42,880 --> 01:39:45,120
Speaker 5: if my granddaddy was hurt, he wouldn't want me talking

1957
01:39:45,160 --> 01:39:46,599
Speaker 5: to you. And I was like why, He said, because

1958
01:39:46,600 --> 01:39:49,160
Speaker 5: he didn't like black people. So I turned right to

1959
01:39:49,240 --> 01:39:50,960
Speaker 5: him and said, why did you feel the need to

1960
01:39:51,000 --> 01:39:51,439
Speaker 5: tell me that?

1961
01:39:51,680 --> 01:39:51,840
Speaker 8: Right?

1962
01:39:51,880 --> 01:39:53,120
Speaker 7: Why you tell me that? Yeah?

1963
01:39:53,200 --> 01:39:55,000
Speaker 5: Like I was like, you could have kept that to yourself.

1964
01:39:55,000 --> 01:39:57,280
Speaker 5: He like I don't got nothing against black people. I'm

1965
01:39:57,320 --> 01:39:59,599
Speaker 5: just saying my grandfather don't like black people. So I'm

1966
01:39:59,640 --> 01:40:00,760
Speaker 5: like whatever, I'm okay, cool.

1967
01:40:00,840 --> 01:40:01,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1968
01:40:01,640 --> 01:40:05,559
Speaker 5: It's like right after Christmas, Christmas Day, I was sitting

1969
01:40:05,600 --> 01:40:08,400
Speaker 5: in the group home. Nobody called, Like, I was watching

1970
01:40:08,439 --> 01:40:11,040
Speaker 5: all the other kids. They getting gifts, they opening their

1971
01:40:11,160 --> 01:40:14,519
Speaker 5: presents and yeah, depending on their program, some of them

1972
01:40:14,560 --> 01:40:17,000
Speaker 5: they get to go home. Like so I'm sitting there,

1973
01:40:17,000 --> 01:40:19,320
Speaker 5: ain't nobody called me on, got no gifts, I don't

1974
01:40:19,320 --> 01:40:21,800
Speaker 5: got nothing, and I'm just sitting in the chart like

1975
01:40:22,439 --> 01:40:24,200
Speaker 5: just pissed all day basically.

1976
01:40:24,280 --> 01:40:27,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, and uh, one of my workers came in later

1977
01:40:27,080 --> 01:40:27,479
Speaker 7: that day.

1978
01:40:27,720 --> 01:40:28,280
Speaker 3: I seen her.

1979
01:40:28,520 --> 01:40:30,640
Speaker 7: She was talking to the lady. The other lady was

1980
01:40:30,640 --> 01:40:31,240
Speaker 7: about to get off.

1981
01:40:31,280 --> 01:40:33,200
Speaker 5: They was behind me and I heard her talk and

1982
01:40:33,320 --> 01:40:35,280
Speaker 5: she said, he just sitting there all day. She was

1983
01:40:35,320 --> 01:40:37,880
Speaker 5: like yeah, she like, did anybody call them or anything?

1984
01:40:37,960 --> 01:40:40,519
Speaker 5: She was like no, She's like nobody. So I'm and

1985
01:40:40,560 --> 01:40:43,920
Speaker 5: it's crazy now that I've been back in that space

1986
01:40:44,040 --> 01:40:48,880
Speaker 5: more than once. Yeah, I've experienced that with kids, seeing

1987
01:40:48,920 --> 01:40:51,519
Speaker 5: them nothing and I know what to do, like I

1988
01:40:51,560 --> 01:40:53,760
Speaker 5: got you know what I'm saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, And.

1989
01:40:53,720 --> 01:40:54,559
Speaker 7: So I'm sitting there.

1990
01:40:54,600 --> 01:40:56,360
Speaker 5: At that point, she like, nah, he's just sitting there

1991
01:40:56,360 --> 01:40:59,240
Speaker 5: all day, and so she went came out. She's like, hell,

1992
01:40:59,439 --> 01:41:02,439
Speaker 5: what you doing. This lady played a significant role in

1993
01:41:02,479 --> 01:41:04,800
Speaker 5: my life. I wish I could remember her name.

1994
01:41:04,880 --> 01:41:05,800
Speaker 3: Bro Like.

1995
01:41:06,240 --> 01:41:08,400
Speaker 5: So she was like, what you're doing. I'm like nothing.

1996
01:41:08,920 --> 01:41:10,320
Speaker 5: She was like, you want to go to the store.

1997
01:41:10,439 --> 01:41:12,960
Speaker 5: I'm like to do what She like her, I got

1998
01:41:12,960 --> 01:41:17,439
Speaker 5: something for you. So the state gave each kid one

1999
01:41:17,520 --> 01:41:19,280
Speaker 5: hundred dollars Walmart gift card.

2000
01:41:19,360 --> 01:41:19,559
Speaker 13: Wow.

2001
01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:22,360
Speaker 7: So she like, you got a gift card the Walmart

2002
01:41:22,360 --> 01:41:23,000
Speaker 7: for one hundred dollars.

2003
01:41:23,040 --> 01:41:23,160
Speaker 3: Bore.

2004
01:41:23,160 --> 01:41:24,960
Speaker 5: I had never been to Walmart before. I ain't know

2005
01:41:25,000 --> 01:41:27,559
Speaker 5: what Walmart was. So I'm like, all right, man, let's go.

2006
01:41:27,840 --> 01:41:29,519
Speaker 5: We go to Walmart. I'm walking around.

2007
01:41:29,960 --> 01:41:31,480
Speaker 7: He ain't never been to Walmart.

2008
01:41:31,600 --> 01:41:34,880
Speaker 5: I had never been to Walmart. Broke walking around. I'm

2009
01:41:34,960 --> 01:41:39,160
Speaker 5: looking around the store. I got this hundred full Guess

2010
01:41:39,160 --> 01:41:39,719
Speaker 5: what I buy?

2011
01:41:39,960 --> 01:41:40,479
Speaker 3: No lie?

2012
01:41:40,640 --> 01:41:43,120
Speaker 7: True story. White t shirt is some Dickies.

2013
01:41:43,280 --> 01:41:46,880
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, yes, white t shirt is some Dikies out

2014
01:41:46,880 --> 01:41:48,200
Speaker 5: of Walmoart in the country.

2015
01:41:48,240 --> 01:41:49,160
Speaker 3: You're I love it.

2016
01:41:49,200 --> 01:41:53,200
Speaker 7: So I grabbed these dickeys, white tea. Go back to

2017
01:41:53,240 --> 01:41:53,920
Speaker 7: the group home.

2018
01:41:54,479 --> 01:41:57,040
Speaker 5: I'm still mad because ain't nobody called me, Nobody came

2019
01:41:57,080 --> 01:41:59,080
Speaker 5: to see me, you know, none of that. And so

2020
01:41:59,240 --> 01:42:03,000
Speaker 5: the next few days, man, me and dude we always

2021
01:42:03,080 --> 01:42:04,840
Speaker 5: ended up in the living room at the same time.

2022
01:42:05,000 --> 01:42:07,040
Speaker 5: And I'm I'm I'm mad.

2023
01:42:07,320 --> 01:42:09,120
Speaker 7: Yeah. So fourteen.

2024
01:42:09,280 --> 01:42:11,360
Speaker 5: You gotta think when I was fourteen, bro, I was

2025
01:42:11,400 --> 01:42:16,599
Speaker 5: like probably six six foot six one. Yeah, like one

2026
01:42:16,680 --> 01:42:19,080
Speaker 5: hundred and eighty two hundred pounds when I was fourteen.

2027
01:42:19,320 --> 01:42:19,559
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2028
01:42:19,680 --> 01:42:21,759
Speaker 5: And so while I'm married, they had some little weights.

2029
01:42:21,800 --> 01:42:23,479
Speaker 5: I had started lifting weights every thing.

2030
01:42:23,640 --> 01:42:25,240
Speaker 7: Oh man, I'm programming.

2031
01:42:25,360 --> 01:42:27,759
Speaker 3: I'm a big old kid. Yeah.

2032
01:42:27,800 --> 01:42:29,880
Speaker 5: So dude gets to talking crazy to me. We sit

2033
01:42:29,920 --> 01:42:32,960
Speaker 5: in the living room. He like, man, what you doing, boy?

2034
01:42:33,160 --> 01:42:35,479
Speaker 5: So my conversation goes back to the first time.

2035
01:42:35,640 --> 01:42:37,440
Speaker 3: Like god he racist?

2036
01:42:37,640 --> 01:42:39,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, now I know, now I know.

2037
01:42:39,479 --> 01:42:41,519
Speaker 3: I'm like what you mean? Boy? He like, you heard me?

2038
01:42:41,560 --> 01:42:41,800
Speaker 8: Boy?

2039
01:42:41,880 --> 01:42:45,479
Speaker 7: I'm like boys in kid or boy as in racist.

2040
01:42:45,520 --> 01:42:46,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2041
01:42:46,200 --> 01:42:48,439
Speaker 7: He like, boy, you heard me. Now we're fighting.

2042
01:42:48,640 --> 01:42:50,720
Speaker 5: I said, hey, bro, I'm gonna tell you this one

2043
01:42:50,720 --> 01:42:53,200
Speaker 5: more time. Don't call me a boy again.

2044
01:42:53,479 --> 01:42:53,679
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2045
01:42:53,800 --> 01:42:54,760
Speaker 7: He said, what you gonna do?

2046
01:42:54,840 --> 01:42:56,240
Speaker 3: Boy? Lit that fool up?

2047
01:42:56,320 --> 01:42:57,040
Speaker 7: Yup, yup?

2048
01:42:57,080 --> 01:42:57,880
Speaker 3: I'm talking about right now?

2049
01:42:58,080 --> 01:43:01,760
Speaker 5: They style locked in big night night.

2050
01:43:01,880 --> 01:43:02,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2051
01:43:04,600 --> 01:43:07,519
Speaker 5: So by the time they come in, I got him

2052
01:43:07,600 --> 01:43:10,599
Speaker 5: by the back of the neck. Yeah, and I'm rubbing

2053
01:43:10,600 --> 01:43:13,080
Speaker 5: his face across the carpet. Yeah, I'm like, what you

2054
01:43:13,080 --> 01:43:15,120
Speaker 5: call me again? He stayed in saying, you know, he's like, boy,

2055
01:43:15,200 --> 01:43:19,840
Speaker 5: you hurt. So now hindsight though, when I look back,

2056
01:43:19,920 --> 01:43:23,800
Speaker 5: I had to think and say, yeah, dangn me and

2057
01:43:23,840 --> 01:43:27,200
Speaker 5: him was sitting there at the same time. I thought

2058
01:43:27,240 --> 01:43:29,360
Speaker 5: back and said, oh, he ain't had no visitors on

2059
01:43:29,479 --> 01:43:32,640
Speaker 5: Christmas steeven. Yeah, oh he man like me. He just

2060
01:43:32,680 --> 01:43:33,320
Speaker 5: as hurt as you.

2061
01:43:33,520 --> 01:43:34,120
Speaker 3: He was hurt.

2062
01:43:34,200 --> 01:43:35,439
Speaker 7: He ain't even know how the process.

2063
01:43:35,600 --> 01:43:38,600
Speaker 15: You the craziest storyteller ever, like, cause I'm like, you

2064
01:43:38,760 --> 01:43:40,519
Speaker 15: can get to the point, and I.

2065
01:43:40,479 --> 01:43:43,080
Speaker 3: See it right there now. I know like he ain't

2066
01:43:43,080 --> 01:43:45,360
Speaker 3: know how the process. So I rushed him up forever.

2067
01:43:45,720 --> 01:43:47,519
Speaker 5: So when the people come in and they see me,

2068
01:43:47,840 --> 01:43:50,400
Speaker 5: you know, they like, grab me up cause I'm.

2069
01:43:50,400 --> 01:43:52,639
Speaker 7: Six foot yeah yeah, yeah, it's on your.

2070
01:43:52,520 --> 01:43:55,800
Speaker 3: Kid from the city. Yeah, you know, everybody record and

2071
01:43:55,880 --> 01:43:57,760
Speaker 3: story they're coming here, so they know like he a

2072
01:43:57,880 --> 01:43:59,439
Speaker 3: gang man, but he did he did.

2073
01:43:59,600 --> 01:44:02,639
Speaker 5: Yeah, so I'm no bressing. They snatched me up, throw

2074
01:44:02,720 --> 01:44:04,920
Speaker 5: me in the room. They took me in this room

2075
01:44:04,960 --> 01:44:08,080
Speaker 5: called an isolation room. This room is like an eight mychin.

2076
01:44:08,720 --> 01:44:10,000
Speaker 5: All the walls were metal.

2077
01:44:10,240 --> 01:44:10,439
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2078
01:44:10,840 --> 01:44:13,639
Speaker 5: The door was like this stick wood with a little

2079
01:44:13,680 --> 01:44:16,439
Speaker 5: bitty wondering the thing on it. No way out unless

2080
01:44:16,439 --> 01:44:18,880
Speaker 5: they let you out in carpet on the floor.

2081
01:44:19,120 --> 01:44:19,240
Speaker 3: Bro.

2082
01:44:19,360 --> 01:44:21,960
Speaker 7: When they shut that door, I just lost it.

2083
01:44:22,080 --> 01:44:22,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2084
01:44:22,800 --> 01:44:26,280
Speaker 5: My brain said, you finna died in her, Ain't no

2085
01:44:26,320 --> 01:44:29,280
Speaker 5: way out. Yeah, And I got to kick in the door.

2086
01:44:29,439 --> 01:44:32,080
Speaker 5: I got to yelling, and I'm talking about Bro. I

2087
01:44:32,240 --> 01:44:34,960
Speaker 5: just was wilding in that. But they just they paid

2088
01:44:34,960 --> 01:44:36,759
Speaker 5: me no mind. They didn't even come to the door.

2089
01:44:36,880 --> 01:44:38,960
Speaker 3: It don't make no difference until you calm down.

2090
01:44:39,240 --> 01:44:40,320
Speaker 7: They like, he can't get out.

2091
01:44:41,120 --> 01:44:43,560
Speaker 5: And so this girl that I knew to her, she

2092
01:44:43,800 --> 01:44:46,000
Speaker 5: came and sat down by the bottom of the door

2093
01:44:46,280 --> 01:44:48,599
Speaker 5: and talked under the thing, and she was like, hey,

2094
01:44:49,000 --> 01:44:50,880
Speaker 5: you gotta come around down. She's like, come down here.

2095
01:44:51,040 --> 01:44:53,120
Speaker 5: So I laid down on the floor. I'm breathing through

2096
01:44:53,160 --> 01:44:56,400
Speaker 5: the crack like I'm breathing under the door. She like,

2097
01:44:56,479 --> 01:44:58,960
Speaker 5: you gotta calm down, Like they never gonna let you

2098
01:44:59,000 --> 01:44:59,320
Speaker 5: out of her.

2099
01:44:59,320 --> 01:44:59,880
Speaker 7: They scurried.

2100
01:45:00,080 --> 01:45:02,280
Speaker 5: She like, I'm out here, like you gotta. So I'm

2101
01:45:02,320 --> 01:45:05,200
Speaker 5: just laying there regulating, and I go to sleep. Wow,

2102
01:45:05,840 --> 01:45:07,519
Speaker 5: and I wake up in the middle of the night.

2103
01:45:07,800 --> 01:45:09,400
Speaker 5: I knocked on the door. They let me out to

2104
01:45:09,479 --> 01:45:11,320
Speaker 5: use the bath on the dude like it was a

2105
01:45:11,360 --> 01:45:13,800
Speaker 5: big white dude used to be overnight. He was like,

2106
01:45:13,960 --> 01:45:15,519
Speaker 5: if I let you out or you're gonna get the trip.

2107
01:45:15,520 --> 01:45:16,760
Speaker 5: And I said, nah, man, I just got to use

2108
01:45:16,800 --> 01:45:19,360
Speaker 5: the bathroom. I already didn used it there once. I'm like,

2109
01:45:19,439 --> 01:45:20,599
Speaker 5: I just want to go to the tarlet.

2110
01:45:20,720 --> 01:45:21,439
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah yeah.

2111
01:45:21,600 --> 01:45:23,479
Speaker 5: So he's like, all right, come on, he let me out.

2112
01:45:23,600 --> 01:45:25,519
Speaker 5: I went back in and he locked the door. When

2113
01:45:25,520 --> 01:45:27,959
Speaker 5: I went back in there, bro, I said to myself,

2114
01:45:28,000 --> 01:45:31,400
Speaker 5: this was my one of my origins. I said to myself,

2115
01:45:31,439 --> 01:45:33,719
Speaker 5: I said, when they let me out of her fourteen

2116
01:45:33,800 --> 01:45:34,519
Speaker 5: years old, I.

2117
01:45:34,479 --> 01:45:37,920
Speaker 3: Said, I'm gonna be different. Yeah, I'm be in control.

2118
01:45:38,160 --> 01:45:39,240
Speaker 7: I'm gonna show the world.

2119
01:45:39,080 --> 01:45:39,519
Speaker 3: Who I am.

2120
01:45:40,080 --> 01:45:42,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, when they let me out, I played the game

2121
01:45:42,920 --> 01:45:45,759
Speaker 5: after that every since. And so I went to another

2122
01:45:45,800 --> 01:45:47,840
Speaker 5: group home. I stayed there. I was supposed to be

2123
01:45:47,840 --> 01:45:50,040
Speaker 5: there for a while. And I got to that group

2124
01:45:50,080 --> 01:45:51,800
Speaker 5: home and I asked the people. I said, how do

2125
01:45:51,920 --> 01:45:54,320
Speaker 5: the program work? As soon as I got there, Yeah,

2126
01:45:54,400 --> 01:45:56,439
Speaker 5: they said, well, if you do this and then you

2127
01:45:56,479 --> 01:45:58,160
Speaker 5: go to level this, and you go to this level,

2128
01:45:58,240 --> 01:45:59,559
Speaker 5: you go to that level. I said, how long do

2129
01:45:59,640 --> 01:46:02,040
Speaker 5: it take that? They said probably like ninety days. I said,

2130
01:46:02,080 --> 01:46:03,200
Speaker 5: I'm gonna do it. Are sixty?

2131
01:46:03,320 --> 01:46:03,720
Speaker 3: I love it?

2132
01:46:03,760 --> 01:46:06,760
Speaker 7: They said okay and shown up sixty days later. Bro

2133
01:46:06,960 --> 01:46:08,400
Speaker 7: leics than sixty I was done.

2134
01:46:08,720 --> 01:46:09,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2135
01:46:09,120 --> 01:46:12,120
Speaker 5: They called my mama. My case had been dropped because

2136
01:46:12,120 --> 01:46:13,680
Speaker 5: my mama was doing what she's supposed to.

2137
01:46:13,640 --> 01:46:16,000
Speaker 7: Do, and they like, you can go home.

2138
01:46:16,439 --> 01:46:18,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, So now I go home two days before I'm

2139
01:46:18,880 --> 01:46:21,000
Speaker 5: turning fifteen. I get back home, though my mama was

2140
01:46:21,000 --> 01:46:23,639
Speaker 5: on the same mission. And I've been outside ever since.

2141
01:46:23,880 --> 01:46:26,559
Speaker 5: Beautiful man, and I think one thing I feel another

2142
01:46:26,560 --> 01:46:28,800
Speaker 5: to just shape me into who I am.

2143
01:46:29,000 --> 01:46:29,719
Speaker 3: But the hero.

2144
01:46:30,000 --> 01:46:33,880
Speaker 15: Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say that that authenticity of

2145
01:46:34,040 --> 01:46:37,400
Speaker 15: like even having the a wherewithal to know that, like

2146
01:46:37,800 --> 01:46:40,519
Speaker 15: you know, at the end of the day, love Homie was.

2147
01:46:40,520 --> 01:46:43,479
Speaker 3: Scared, right, Yeah, he was hurt too, Like he was

2148
01:46:43,520 --> 01:46:44,000
Speaker 3: just hurting.

2149
01:46:44,360 --> 01:46:46,280
Speaker 15: So when you have that sort of like level of

2150
01:46:46,320 --> 01:46:50,160
Speaker 15: empathy and you know when you were outside, like the

2151
01:46:50,200 --> 01:46:53,000
Speaker 15: reasons for which you were outside, you know what I'm saying,

2152
01:46:53,400 --> 01:46:57,160
Speaker 15: and having those connections, it's so clear to me how

2153
01:46:57,200 --> 01:47:00,479
Speaker 15: that fuels the direction you're in, and it rus to

2154
01:47:00,560 --> 01:47:04,519
Speaker 15: me the cornerstone premise of my whole movement here, which

2155
01:47:04,560 --> 01:47:06,799
Speaker 15: is like, yo, if you understand the hood, you understand politics.

2156
01:47:06,960 --> 01:47:08,920
Speaker 15: You walked in there and said, what's the game? What's

2157
01:47:08,960 --> 01:47:11,679
Speaker 15: the play? Okay, what's the play? How does this work?

2158
01:47:12,040 --> 01:47:12,080
Speaker 5: This?

2159
01:47:12,280 --> 01:47:12,599
Speaker 3: Okay?

2160
01:47:12,600 --> 01:47:13,840
Speaker 15: Now, know how to work it. Here's a way to

2161
01:47:13,840 --> 01:47:15,519
Speaker 15: make it better. I know how it, I know how

2162
01:47:15,560 --> 01:47:17,400
Speaker 15: I felt in it. So if somebody else has to

2163
01:47:17,400 --> 01:47:20,120
Speaker 15: be in there just the way it needs to be done,

2164
01:47:20,200 --> 01:47:23,519
Speaker 15: because I know I would have succeeded had this this

2165
01:47:23,560 --> 01:47:25,599
Speaker 15: and this happened. So let me let me let me

2166
01:47:25,600 --> 01:47:28,840
Speaker 15: push you forward to now and then to more like

2167
01:47:29,360 --> 01:47:32,640
Speaker 15: sort of the bigger like national conversation now, so like

2168
01:47:32,680 --> 01:47:36,920
Speaker 15: the national conversation all of us we lived through, you know,

2169
01:47:37,040 --> 01:47:38,400
Speaker 15: in the time that you were there, and the time

2170
01:47:38,479 --> 01:47:41,679
Speaker 15: was going on in La too, like this this hyper

2171
01:47:41,760 --> 01:47:46,080
Speaker 15: policing where you know, for us probably saying for y'all,

2172
01:47:46,080 --> 01:47:47,760
Speaker 15: the cops were just another gang to us, you know

2173
01:47:47,800 --> 01:47:51,400
Speaker 15: what I'm saying, Like y'all just as violent, as bad

2174
01:47:51,720 --> 01:47:54,320
Speaker 15: and as dangerous as everybody else in these streets.

2175
01:47:54,360 --> 01:47:55,800
Speaker 3: Like you ain't make no difference to us.

2176
01:47:56,600 --> 01:48:00,240
Speaker 15: And sure, yeah, like in the same way that you know,

2177
01:48:00,400 --> 01:48:05,240
Speaker 15: if you were having a rodent infestation at your house,

2178
01:48:05,600 --> 01:48:09,559
Speaker 15: I mean sure you could bomb the house, right, and yes,

2179
01:48:09,640 --> 01:48:12,280
Speaker 15: the rodents are gone. You're see what I'm saying, But

2180
01:48:12,360 --> 01:48:14,000
Speaker 15: you've killed everything, you know.

2181
01:48:13,960 --> 01:48:14,479
Speaker 3: What I'm saying.

2182
01:48:14,520 --> 01:48:16,519
Speaker 15: But then you get to say, like you know, as

2183
01:48:16,520 --> 01:48:18,559
Speaker 15: a metaphor, it's like, oh, look, we were tough on crime,

2184
01:48:18,600 --> 01:48:21,040
Speaker 15: we ended crime, you know what I'm saying. It's like, well, yeah,

2185
01:48:21,080 --> 01:48:22,920
Speaker 15: but that's what you locked us all up. Like it

2186
01:48:22,960 --> 01:48:26,679
Speaker 15: didn't This didn't really help us. But you know, we're

2187
01:48:26,720 --> 01:48:30,840
Speaker 15: seeing sort of across the country despite all of these

2188
01:48:30,880 --> 01:48:34,280
Speaker 15: efforts and proof that like the streets are different, and

2189
01:48:34,320 --> 01:48:38,559
Speaker 15: it's not because of any invading forts. It's because of

2190
01:48:38,920 --> 01:48:42,000
Speaker 15: people like you, people like JB and OKC that are

2191
01:48:42,040 --> 01:48:46,200
Speaker 15: like truly from the city, who really care and move

2192
01:48:46,240 --> 01:48:48,200
Speaker 15: at the speed of trust, like I said, moving at

2193
01:48:48,200 --> 01:48:50,200
Speaker 15: the speed of trust and like and are saying, Look,

2194
01:48:50,520 --> 01:48:52,920
Speaker 15: it's one kid at a time, it's one program at

2195
01:48:52,920 --> 01:48:55,840
Speaker 15: a time, it's one advocate at a time that like

2196
01:48:55,920 --> 01:49:01,360
Speaker 15: says incremental slow door knock build true us one kid,

2197
01:49:01,560 --> 01:49:03,200
Speaker 15: you know what I'm saying. That's like it's not fun.

2198
01:49:03,280 --> 01:49:07,120
Speaker 15: It's not a movie. It ain't sexy. It ain't sexy. Bro,

2199
01:49:07,200 --> 01:49:11,360
Speaker 15: you gotta be outside. You know, I'm gonna breeze through.

2200
01:49:11,439 --> 01:49:14,439
Speaker 15: When you caught one to the leg. But like, even

2201
01:49:14,479 --> 01:49:17,120
Speaker 15: in the process of doing the good you were doing,

2202
01:49:17,160 --> 01:49:19,040
Speaker 15: there was a moment where like I knew of like

2203
01:49:19,080 --> 01:49:22,040
Speaker 15: you're like you were in neighborhoods, like you know, doing

2204
01:49:22,640 --> 01:49:25,080
Speaker 15: backpack drives and back to school things, you know what

2205
01:49:25,080 --> 01:49:25,479
Speaker 15: I'm saying.

2206
01:49:25,520 --> 01:49:28,839
Speaker 3: But these are like in these are in active areas.

2207
01:49:29,080 --> 01:49:33,320
Speaker 15: Like you know, everybody can just walk in to this

2208
01:49:33,560 --> 01:49:36,400
Speaker 15: park and be like I'm gonna do a fundraiser.

2209
01:49:36,439 --> 01:49:39,879
Speaker 3: It's like, like, no, we rob it, all of you,

2210
01:49:39,880 --> 01:49:42,519
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. So like, after years of.

2211
01:49:42,439 --> 01:49:45,439
Speaker 15: Doing this, you know, one little Waiian didn't know who

2212
01:49:45,439 --> 01:49:47,719
Speaker 15: he was dealing with, you know what I'm saying, caught

2213
01:49:47,720 --> 01:49:49,320
Speaker 15: you slipping, you know what I'm saying. You had to

2214
01:49:49,360 --> 01:49:53,400
Speaker 15: rebuild and I've seen even health journey from that moment

2215
01:49:53,760 --> 01:49:57,320
Speaker 15: sort of change to bring you into the position you're

2216
01:49:57,400 --> 01:50:00,880
Speaker 15: in sort of now, which is like, obviously it's somebody

2217
01:50:00,920 --> 01:50:13,760
Speaker 15: we could deeply admire. Can you talk a little bit

2218
01:50:13,800 --> 01:50:18,799
Speaker 15: about obviously without getting personal, without sharing anybody's like personal information.

2219
01:50:18,880 --> 01:50:21,280
Speaker 15: But some of the sort of like things that you've

2220
01:50:21,320 --> 01:50:23,439
Speaker 15: seen with some of the young homies who've been able

2221
01:50:23,439 --> 01:50:25,840
Speaker 15: to maybe like calm some stuff down, you know what

2222
01:50:25,880 --> 01:50:28,800
Speaker 15: I'm saying, like maybe actually like this working, you know

2223
01:50:28,800 --> 01:50:29,200
Speaker 15: what I mean?

2224
01:50:29,680 --> 01:50:34,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, so I think you nailed it as a whole.

2225
01:50:35,200 --> 01:50:38,920
Speaker 5: It takes a person that people trust to bring a

2226
01:50:39,000 --> 01:50:43,880
Speaker 5: level of com So even when I got shot, when

2227
01:50:43,920 --> 01:50:47,240
Speaker 5: I got shot, or I had dudes in my inbox where.

2228
01:50:47,120 --> 01:50:49,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah that be outside ready to slide?

2229
01:50:49,880 --> 01:50:52,920
Speaker 3: Oh, ready to they ready to slide? Yeah, Yeah, that's like, hey,

2230
01:50:53,040 --> 01:50:54,720
Speaker 3: who got you? You know it? Let's go.

2231
01:50:54,800 --> 01:50:57,320
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I'm like, nah, I'm cool. Yeah yeah, yeah,

2232
01:50:57,360 --> 01:50:57,559
Speaker 7: you know.

2233
01:50:57,800 --> 01:51:01,040
Speaker 5: And so sometimes when things like that, I think people

2234
01:51:01,120 --> 01:51:04,519
Speaker 5: take things into their own hands. Yeah, that you don't

2235
01:51:04,560 --> 01:51:08,240
Speaker 5: know nothing about. And so after that, they were like,

2236
01:51:08,280 --> 01:51:10,680
Speaker 5: do you want to do this news interview? I was

2237
01:51:10,720 --> 01:51:13,839
Speaker 5: still broke up. I couldn't get out the bed. I'm like, yeah,

2238
01:51:14,080 --> 01:51:17,040
Speaker 5: you know, but my reason for doing the news interview

2239
01:51:17,200 --> 01:51:21,240
Speaker 5: was so people could hear my heart. Yeah, and you

2240
01:51:21,520 --> 01:51:26,800
Speaker 5: have a thistle in every neighborhood around America.

2241
01:51:26,920 --> 01:51:27,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2242
01:51:27,560 --> 01:51:29,040
Speaker 7: So here's the thing about police.

2243
01:51:29,120 --> 01:51:32,680
Speaker 5: Police are reactive Yeah, when by the time police on

2244
01:51:32,880 --> 01:51:36,479
Speaker 5: a word of things, a crime has happened. Yeah, the

2245
01:51:36,560 --> 01:51:40,400
Speaker 5: murder has already taken place, the shooting has already happened,

2246
01:51:40,680 --> 01:51:45,120
Speaker 5: the robbery has already happened. The person that's stopping the

2247
01:51:45,240 --> 01:51:49,720
Speaker 5: crime is miscathy that live on the block. Yes, that's say,

2248
01:51:49,800 --> 01:51:52,400
Speaker 5: hey can murder. Yeah, where are you going? I could

2249
01:51:52,400 --> 01:51:55,639
Speaker 5: tell you frustrate. We had this lady in our neighborhood

2250
01:51:55,640 --> 01:51:58,759
Speaker 5: and name was miss a Miss Alexander. How many times

2251
01:51:58,800 --> 01:52:01,600
Speaker 5: as a kid I be walking past her house on

2252
01:52:01,720 --> 01:52:04,960
Speaker 5: my way to do something stupid. Yeah, and she'll say,

2253
01:52:05,240 --> 01:52:07,680
Speaker 5: come murder yep, and you go sit there on the

2254
01:52:07,720 --> 01:52:09,759
Speaker 5: porch with her and talk for like fifteen minutes.

2255
01:52:09,840 --> 01:52:13,160
Speaker 7: Respect is you have to respect her? Yeah, and you done.

2256
01:52:13,520 --> 01:52:16,040
Speaker 7: Or the dude that used to be in the street.

2257
01:52:16,080 --> 01:52:18,000
Speaker 7: It's a dude her in Saint Louis.

2258
01:52:18,439 --> 01:52:23,320
Speaker 5: I don't really know him, like personally personally, but his saying,

2259
01:52:23,439 --> 01:52:26,040
Speaker 5: uh he goes by the name Yo Bangda uh huh.

2260
01:52:26,120 --> 01:52:30,120
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. Yeah, x street dude. Everybody

2261
01:52:30,200 --> 01:52:30,760
Speaker 3: love him.

2262
01:52:30,960 --> 01:52:36,800
Speaker 5: You're me yeah, yeah, bro be outside like politicket, Yeah,

2263
01:52:36,920 --> 01:52:41,280
Speaker 5: running programs, you know, doing stuff like that. So those

2264
01:52:41,360 --> 01:52:44,559
Speaker 5: are the people that calls change in every community. Let

2265
01:52:44,640 --> 01:52:46,639
Speaker 5: me tell you a place while we're on this subject,

2266
01:52:46,640 --> 01:52:50,760
Speaker 5: where I think we fail it, especially with organizations. Organizations

2267
01:52:50,760 --> 01:52:54,719
Speaker 5: that typically come into our neighborhood. They come for agenda, yeah,

2268
01:52:54,760 --> 01:52:58,439
Speaker 5: and politics, And what they don't understand is what you're saying,

2269
01:52:58,640 --> 01:53:00,960
Speaker 5: if you understand the hood, you want to staying politics.

2270
01:53:01,439 --> 01:53:03,519
Speaker 5: So when they pull up on us in the hood

2271
01:53:03,680 --> 01:53:06,519
Speaker 5: and they got this big organization with all this money

2272
01:53:06,720 --> 01:53:08,560
Speaker 5: and they're like, this is what we want to do. No,

2273
01:53:09,200 --> 01:53:12,080
Speaker 5: you're telling me that because you're trying to build an

2274
01:53:12,200 --> 01:53:15,040
Speaker 5: army of people to fight for your calls. And what

2275
01:53:15,080 --> 01:53:18,000
Speaker 5: they do is they come into our spaces and they

2276
01:53:18,040 --> 01:53:20,160
Speaker 5: don't empower those people right there.

2277
01:53:21,000 --> 01:53:22,840
Speaker 3: I've said this to people one hundred times.

2278
01:53:22,840 --> 01:53:25,040
Speaker 7: If you really really really want to see.

2279
01:53:24,880 --> 01:53:27,720
Speaker 5: Impact and see change, you need to go to the

2280
01:53:27,800 --> 01:53:30,760
Speaker 5: community and see the people that are already leading it.

2281
01:53:30,880 --> 01:53:33,000
Speaker 7: There you go the people that you're talking about.

2282
01:53:33,280 --> 01:53:35,439
Speaker 5: The reason I'm able to go into park in that

2283
01:53:35,520 --> 01:53:39,479
Speaker 5: neighborhood is because I'm a leader over there.

2284
01:53:39,680 --> 01:53:44,040
Speaker 3: At one point, I was one of the leaders actively. Yeah.

2285
01:53:44,160 --> 01:53:47,840
Speaker 5: So people don't know me, they respect me, they understand

2286
01:53:47,880 --> 01:53:51,320
Speaker 5: my journey and my transition, and that rapport is what

2287
01:53:51,520 --> 01:53:52,439
Speaker 5: get the work done.

2288
01:53:52,640 --> 01:53:55,520
Speaker 7: Police a reactor. Bro By the said, the police come somebody.

2289
01:53:55,280 --> 01:53:56,639
Speaker 3: Dead, It's already done. Yeah.

2290
01:53:56,720 --> 01:54:00,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's people like me on the phone when Brok like, man, bro,

2291
01:54:00,680 --> 01:54:01,439
Speaker 5: I'm about the snap.

2292
01:54:01,520 --> 01:54:03,680
Speaker 3: It's like, nah, bro, where you at? Like you know

2293
01:54:03,840 --> 01:54:04,439
Speaker 3: what we're doing?

2294
01:54:04,800 --> 01:54:07,800
Speaker 5: And so I think those people need to be empowered more.

2295
01:54:08,280 --> 01:54:12,040
Speaker 5: For any organization that's listening or that possibly here, it is.

2296
01:54:12,439 --> 01:54:14,400
Speaker 5: We don't need you to come out our community and

2297
01:54:14,439 --> 01:54:16,800
Speaker 5: build a hub. We don't need you to put an

2298
01:54:16,840 --> 01:54:19,559
Speaker 5: office there. And I'm just gonna be candidate and bring

2299
01:54:19,600 --> 01:54:21,000
Speaker 5: a whole lot of white people.

2300
01:54:21,120 --> 01:54:23,679
Speaker 7: Facts and gentrify a program.

2301
01:54:23,800 --> 01:54:24,639
Speaker 3: We don't need that.

2302
01:54:25,040 --> 01:54:29,960
Speaker 5: What is needed is if you have resources, you have money,

2303
01:54:30,000 --> 01:54:33,919
Speaker 5: you have things you could bring structure, you could bring system,

2304
01:54:34,200 --> 01:54:37,760
Speaker 5: but bring it to empower the person that's already in

2305
01:54:37,800 --> 01:54:40,160
Speaker 5: that space. It's gonna take you thirty years to get

2306
01:54:40,160 --> 01:54:41,360
Speaker 5: to kind of respect that person.

2307
01:54:41,400 --> 01:54:43,000
Speaker 3: Get over there already, Jims.

2308
01:54:43,400 --> 01:54:46,200
Speaker 5: And you know why they can't be fully involved because

2309
01:54:46,200 --> 01:54:48,000
Speaker 5: they still got to work, They still gotta do thing.

2310
01:54:48,280 --> 01:54:50,840
Speaker 7: You still yes, you still yes, man.

2311
01:54:50,960 --> 01:54:54,360
Speaker 5: So if you want to really empower the community, take

2312
01:54:54,480 --> 01:54:58,200
Speaker 5: that forty fifty sixty seventy thousand, one hundred thousand that

2313
01:54:58,280 --> 01:55:01,920
Speaker 5: you're about to run on this campaign against whoever else

2314
01:55:01,960 --> 01:55:04,440
Speaker 5: you don't like. Yeah, and take some of that money,

2315
01:55:04,640 --> 01:55:07,120
Speaker 5: take about seventy five k that and give it to

2316
01:55:07,480 --> 01:55:08,760
Speaker 5: somebody like Yo Bang.

2317
01:55:08,680 --> 01:55:11,320
Speaker 15: Yo bang a missad. Yeah, but it was Alex Carrasco.

2318
01:55:11,480 --> 01:55:11,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2319
01:55:12,040 --> 01:55:14,040
Speaker 7: Get the people like that, yup.

2320
01:55:14,200 --> 01:55:16,080
Speaker 15: Because we lived in the Mexican hoods. You know, he

2321
01:55:16,160 --> 01:55:18,360
Speaker 15: had his to despoon thos Like we already knew. He

2322
01:55:18,480 --> 01:55:20,440
Speaker 15: was like, what what the people like that? Give it

2323
01:55:20,480 --> 01:55:22,400
Speaker 15: to him? You know what I'm saying, he'd looked that man.

2324
01:55:22,440 --> 01:55:26,919
Speaker 15: Took me camping for the first time with with Alex Carrasco.

2325
01:55:27,200 --> 01:55:29,440
Speaker 7: You know what I'm saying, Like, believe it or not,

2326
01:55:29,640 --> 01:55:30,480
Speaker 7: believe it or not.

2327
01:55:30,880 --> 01:55:34,320
Speaker 5: Part of the reason that you turned out the way

2328
01:55:34,360 --> 01:55:36,520
Speaker 5: you did is because of siege that people like him

2329
01:55:36,560 --> 01:55:39,400
Speaker 5: playing it. Yep, no facts, It was the difference between

2330
01:55:39,440 --> 01:55:40,600
Speaker 5: you and the other dudes on the.

2331
01:55:40,520 --> 01:55:41,360
Speaker 7: Block that didn't go.

2332
01:55:41,480 --> 01:55:46,240
Speaker 5: That's exactly like exposure, bro, is she what you're exposed

2333
01:55:46,280 --> 01:55:48,120
Speaker 5: to right now? One of my missions I'm working on

2334
01:55:48,160 --> 01:55:49,720
Speaker 5: over the next couple of years, Well, I'm gonna take

2335
01:55:49,720 --> 01:55:50,640
Speaker 5: a group of kids from the.

2336
01:55:50,560 --> 01:55:52,840
Speaker 3: Hood to Africa. They have to see it, bro, that's

2337
01:55:52,880 --> 01:55:53,720
Speaker 3: one of my missions.

2338
01:55:53,760 --> 01:55:56,280
Speaker 5: They have to Yes, Yeah, I'm gonna take a bunch

2339
01:55:56,280 --> 01:55:58,400
Speaker 5: of kids from the hood to Africa, like so they

2340
01:55:58,400 --> 01:56:00,560
Speaker 5: can get over there and see what it really look like.

2341
01:56:00,840 --> 01:56:03,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, but also just taking them other places.

2342
01:56:03,280 --> 01:56:05,680
Speaker 3: They could also go to, like Denver, Like.

2343
01:56:07,160 --> 01:56:09,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, I took a group of kids to Kaa a

2344
01:56:09,880 --> 01:56:13,080
Speaker 5: few years back, like in the city kids, Yeah, and.

2345
01:56:13,120 --> 01:56:14,880
Speaker 3: They were blown away. Yeah.

2346
01:56:15,080 --> 01:56:17,520
Speaker 5: Like like you said, going camping, you get to see

2347
01:56:18,360 --> 01:56:19,640
Speaker 5: water and boats.

2348
01:56:19,840 --> 01:56:21,960
Speaker 15: When I used to teach, I taught in the city

2349
01:56:21,960 --> 01:56:24,320
Speaker 15: called Pomona. It's in the Inland Empire. It's kids from

2350
01:56:24,440 --> 01:56:27,080
Speaker 15: La I've never seen the beach, Like you've never seen

2351
01:56:27,080 --> 01:56:29,160
Speaker 15: the ocean and you're from Los Angeles, you know what

2352
01:56:29,160 --> 01:56:34,080
Speaker 15: I'm saying. So like, yeah, that exposure changes everything. Have

2353
01:56:34,200 --> 01:56:37,120
Speaker 15: you set up some sort of like fundraising things so

2354
01:56:37,160 --> 01:56:38,960
Speaker 15: we can see if we could get our listeners to

2355
01:56:39,040 --> 01:56:40,760
Speaker 15: maybe like fund this Africa drip.

2356
01:56:40,880 --> 01:56:42,840
Speaker 7: So if you go to my page, just like one

2357
01:56:42,920 --> 01:56:44,240
Speaker 7: hundred foundation dot or.

2358
01:56:44,480 --> 01:56:46,000
Speaker 3: Like one hundred foundation dot org.

2359
01:56:46,040 --> 01:56:49,240
Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, it's a donation tab, it'll go to the

2360
01:56:49,800 --> 01:56:50,280
Speaker 5: give but.

2361
01:56:50,280 --> 01:56:53,560
Speaker 15: A page, Okay, we will link to that. Yes, see

2362
01:56:53,640 --> 01:56:56,360
Speaker 15: that's all I needed. Yeah, listen, bro, I want to

2363
01:56:56,400 --> 01:56:57,400
Speaker 15: thank you for your time.

2364
01:56:57,480 --> 01:56:57,680
Speaker 8: Man.

2365
01:56:58,160 --> 01:57:00,240
Speaker 15: Some of y'all know, like I've known this man for

2366
01:57:00,280 --> 01:57:03,800
Speaker 15: a long time. We've we've ran ran into many A

2367
01:57:03,920 --> 01:57:06,440
Speaker 15: cities and many A shows.

2368
01:57:06,040 --> 01:57:09,280
Speaker 3: And always appreciated you too.

2369
01:57:09,600 --> 01:57:11,640
Speaker 15: Yes, sirry Man, I think there was a little bit

2370
01:57:11,640 --> 01:57:14,760
Speaker 15: of like we've been sitting in green rooms that both

2371
01:57:14,800 --> 01:57:18,240
Speaker 15: of us know good and well that we just why

2372
01:57:18,240 --> 01:57:20,640
Speaker 15: are we here, Like we have no reason to be

2373
01:57:20,720 --> 01:57:24,120
Speaker 15: in this room, but we are. It just has very

2374
01:57:24,160 --> 01:57:26,920
Speaker 15: much a very much like a real recognized real with

2375
01:57:27,040 --> 01:57:29,040
Speaker 15: somebody like this man. And like you said, Bro, like

2376
01:57:29,120 --> 01:57:32,240
Speaker 15: there's thistles in every city man, and I appreciate the

2377
01:57:32,280 --> 01:57:34,520
Speaker 15: fact that, like, and that's part of what makes you

2378
01:57:34,560 --> 01:57:37,240
Speaker 15: what you are, is that, like it's the things that

2379
01:57:37,360 --> 01:57:42,080
Speaker 15: happen that when there's no cameras on that for us

2380
01:57:42,120 --> 01:57:44,600
Speaker 15: that we're mostly proud of. It's not the stuff that

2381
01:57:44,760 --> 01:57:47,440
Speaker 15: like everybody sees, it's what's happened, like you said, it's

2382
01:57:47,480 --> 01:57:51,400
Speaker 15: when it's the phone calls you have to have, you know,

2383
01:57:51,480 --> 01:57:53,120
Speaker 15: the meetings you have to set up, you know what

2384
01:57:53,120 --> 01:57:56,480
Speaker 15: I'm saying, And like the like those things are are

2385
01:57:56,760 --> 01:57:59,000
Speaker 15: are the things that really keep a city safe.

2386
01:57:59,400 --> 01:58:01,520
Speaker 5: I want to say before we go, we talked about

2387
01:58:01,520 --> 01:58:05,240
Speaker 5: something before you start recording. Yeah, and I want to

2388
01:58:05,280 --> 01:58:09,040
Speaker 5: point it out because I think it's important too. We

2389
01:58:09,040 --> 01:58:15,120
Speaker 5: were talking about how resources prevent violence. Yeah, so everybody

2390
01:58:15,200 --> 01:58:19,560
Speaker 5: know where there's no hope, there's violence, there is desperate right. Yes,

2391
01:58:19,680 --> 01:58:24,080
Speaker 5: So right now in Saint Louis, we have been informed

2392
01:58:24,840 --> 01:58:27,920
Speaker 5: that the senator who's a Republican centater.

2393
01:58:28,720 --> 01:58:30,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's linked.

2394
01:58:30,080 --> 01:58:34,000
Speaker 7: Up with pjt Okay, okay, and there you are.

2395
01:58:34,360 --> 01:58:38,120
Speaker 5: They're building an FBI base here and they're bringing in

2396
01:58:38,200 --> 01:58:41,840
Speaker 5: more FBI agents to divert violence.

2397
01:58:42,400 --> 01:58:43,320
Speaker 3: Right. Yeah.

2398
01:58:43,800 --> 01:58:48,280
Speaker 5: One again, law enforcement is a reaction to crime. They

2399
01:58:48,320 --> 01:58:52,280
Speaker 5: don't prevent it. Yeah, here's the reality that everybody that

2400
01:58:52,440 --> 01:58:55,160
Speaker 5: has a brain to think should be aware of. I

2401
01:58:55,200 --> 01:58:58,080
Speaker 5: don't care how many FBI you bring, how many police

2402
01:58:58,120 --> 01:59:03,560
Speaker 5: you hire. There are not enough law enforcement to govern

2403
01:59:04,040 --> 01:59:04,520
Speaker 5: the earth.

2404
01:59:04,600 --> 01:59:06,480
Speaker 7: Yes, yes, period, there's too many of them.

2405
01:59:06,600 --> 01:59:09,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's not there's too many of us. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

2406
01:59:09,480 --> 01:59:11,240
Speaker 3: you can't govern the earth.

2407
01:59:11,560 --> 01:59:14,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, like that's that's that's a no go.

2408
01:59:14,640 --> 01:59:15,320
Speaker 3: Right. Yeah.

2409
01:59:15,480 --> 01:59:18,520
Speaker 5: Most cases, when I see people make these arguments about this,

2410
01:59:19,120 --> 01:59:21,080
Speaker 5: I'm a person I like to use facts.

2411
01:59:21,120 --> 01:59:23,640
Speaker 3: I get straight to the facts, like we get the points.

2412
01:59:23,880 --> 01:59:27,200
Speaker 5: So in Saint Lewis, right, from twenty twenty to twenty

2413
01:59:27,560 --> 01:59:32,360
Speaker 5: twenty four, the murder rate in Saint Louis has dropped

2414
01:59:32,960 --> 01:59:35,080
Speaker 5: by one hundred and thirteen.

2415
01:59:35,480 --> 01:59:39,160
Speaker 15: Come on, man, yeah, one hundred and thirteen, bro, that's

2416
01:59:39,200 --> 01:59:40,080
Speaker 15: a lot of lives.

2417
01:59:40,280 --> 01:59:40,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2418
01:59:40,480 --> 01:59:44,640
Speaker 5: So in twenty twenty, the number of homicides at Saint

2419
01:59:44,720 --> 01:59:48,600
Speaker 5: Louis was two hundred and sixty three. The number in

2420
01:59:48,680 --> 01:59:52,000
Speaker 5: twenty twenty four were one hundred and fifty. See, there

2421
01:59:52,080 --> 01:59:55,280
Speaker 5: are certain things that I'm not gonna say they are

2422
01:59:55,400 --> 01:59:59,000
Speaker 5: the exclusive reason. But there are certain things that I

2423
01:59:59,040 --> 02:00:02,240
Speaker 5: know have contribute today. And it's not law enforcement because

2424
02:00:02,480 --> 02:00:04,400
Speaker 5: our police force is short right now.

2425
02:00:04,400 --> 02:00:06,160
Speaker 3: They gone, they don't do too much and nothing.

2426
02:00:06,280 --> 02:00:08,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, there are a few things I know they have

2427
02:00:08,240 --> 02:00:13,480
Speaker 5: contributed to that. The magic thing is resources, yeah, and compassion.

2428
02:00:13,920 --> 02:00:16,320
Speaker 7: But they are few. Through a certain few things that

2429
02:00:16,360 --> 02:00:17,200
Speaker 7: I want to shout out.

2430
02:00:17,240 --> 02:00:21,240
Speaker 5: One of them is an organization called FCCY Freedom Center

2431
02:00:21,400 --> 02:00:24,800
Speaker 5: Saint Louis. My hoomie Mike Milton. The other one is

2432
02:00:24,840 --> 02:00:29,120
Speaker 5: Action Saint Louis. The other one is Missus Saint Louis.

2433
02:00:29,360 --> 02:00:33,720
Speaker 5: The other one is we Power Saint Louis. We power STL.

2434
02:00:33,880 --> 02:00:40,440
Speaker 5: They fund early childhood development. Word like crucially important for

2435
02:00:40,560 --> 02:00:45,200
Speaker 5: our community. Wow, you got mcc action Saint Louis, missus,

2436
02:00:45,280 --> 02:00:48,840
Speaker 5: Saint Louis Black Men, Bill, We power STL.

2437
02:00:49,240 --> 02:00:51,480
Speaker 3: Just to name a few people like your bangor.

2438
02:00:52,000 --> 02:00:58,480
Speaker 5: These are the people that have been actively in the community.

2439
02:00:58,200 --> 02:01:02,879
Speaker 7: For the past four years. A past mayor to Charlotte Jones.

2440
02:01:03,440 --> 02:01:06,400
Speaker 5: She probably got a lot of things wrong in people asked,

2441
02:01:06,760 --> 02:01:10,920
Speaker 5: but she was directing certain things and empowering people in

2442
02:01:10,960 --> 02:01:11,640
Speaker 5: a certain way.

2443
02:01:12,280 --> 02:01:15,800
Speaker 7: These organizations have thrived.

2444
02:01:15,320 --> 02:01:18,760
Speaker 5: Over the past four years and as a result, you

2445
02:01:18,960 --> 02:01:23,480
Speaker 5: see the number of homicides in the city. D Chris, So,

2446
02:01:23,520 --> 02:01:25,720
Speaker 5: why do we need to bring more FBI agents?

2447
02:01:25,720 --> 02:01:27,120
Speaker 3: What is that for? Show?

2448
02:01:27,760 --> 02:01:30,800
Speaker 5: Shouldn't we be throwing more money into these organizations if

2449
02:01:30,840 --> 02:01:34,440
Speaker 5: they are out here the turn trying they got the

2450
02:01:34,560 --> 02:01:41,600
Speaker 5: FCC has data, Yeah, they have data of reconciliation. I'm

2451
02:01:41,600 --> 02:01:46,160
Speaker 5: talking about my boy, Mike Milton. He's stepping into roles.

2452
02:01:46,400 --> 02:01:49,320
Speaker 5: With one case in particular, a young man was driving

2453
02:01:49,360 --> 02:01:50,640
Speaker 5: in the car with another young man.

2454
02:01:50,760 --> 02:01:51,440
Speaker 7: He was drunk.

2455
02:01:51,440 --> 02:01:52,520
Speaker 3: The young man died.

2456
02:01:53,080 --> 02:01:55,080
Speaker 7: He reconciled him with the mother.

2457
02:01:55,240 --> 02:01:58,360
Speaker 5: The mother in return went to the judge and was like,

2458
02:01:58,400 --> 02:02:00,520
Speaker 5: he don't need to go to jail here either, gonna treatment.

2459
02:02:00,840 --> 02:02:05,120
Speaker 3: Wow, Like why is he going to prison? Wow? Damn man.

2460
02:02:05,240 --> 02:02:08,400
Speaker 5: And then when they get when they get rid of justice, yeah,

2461
02:02:08,800 --> 02:02:11,839
Speaker 5: with sort of justice. When they get released from prison,

2462
02:02:11,960 --> 02:02:15,160
Speaker 5: they go to SCC and they spend time with them

2463
02:02:15,440 --> 02:02:16,880
Speaker 5: and they learn.

2464
02:02:17,240 --> 02:02:21,800
Speaker 3: The storative justice. They take accountability. Wow. Wow.

2465
02:02:22,160 --> 02:02:26,560
Speaker 5: So if we go if we need anything in Saint Louis,

2466
02:02:26,720 --> 02:02:32,440
Speaker 5: in DC, in Chicago, if we need anything in these cities,

2467
02:02:32,480 --> 02:02:36,240
Speaker 5: what we need or people to be realistic about what's

2468
02:02:36,280 --> 02:02:39,280
Speaker 5: happening and if you want to do something, say some

2469
02:02:39,320 --> 02:02:41,040
Speaker 5: of the funds you're gonna use to have more law

2470
02:02:41,120 --> 02:02:45,000
Speaker 5: enforcement into these places where you know people are already

2471
02:02:45,040 --> 02:02:46,720
Speaker 5: doing things. Because let me tell you something else, it's

2472
02:02:46,760 --> 02:02:49,760
Speaker 5: twenty twenty six almost, it's twenty twenty five. Ain't nobody

2473
02:02:49,840 --> 02:02:51,680
Speaker 5: scared of the police like they used to be. This

2474
02:02:51,720 --> 02:02:53,240
Speaker 5: ain't nineteen sixty.

2475
02:02:52,880 --> 02:02:53,720
Speaker 3: Two, bro, sir.

2476
02:02:53,760 --> 02:02:56,040
Speaker 5: Don't nobody's seen the police and be like, oh my gosh,

2477
02:02:56,080 --> 02:02:59,440
Speaker 5: you'll go to police these grown men just like another

2478
02:02:59,480 --> 02:02:59,960
Speaker 5: grown man.

2479
02:03:00,440 --> 02:03:03,200
Speaker 7: Ain't nobody scared of police no more? That ain't a

2480
02:03:03,200 --> 02:03:05,920
Speaker 7: thing lead like the rest of us. That's not a thing. Yeah,

2481
02:03:05,920 --> 02:03:09,400
Speaker 7: you belied like the rest of us. Mumble with the police. Bro,

2482
02:03:09,560 --> 02:03:12,640
Speaker 7: they dangerous right now, straight spirt up. That's what I'm

2483
02:03:12,640 --> 02:03:13,160
Speaker 7: trying to say.

2484
02:03:14,320 --> 02:03:16,960
Speaker 15: Look, we can talk about this right because that's the

2485
02:03:16,960 --> 02:03:18,320
Speaker 15: way we are with these ice agents.

2486
02:03:18,320 --> 02:03:19,480
Speaker 3: It's like, you think I'm scared.

2487
02:03:19,320 --> 02:03:21,280
Speaker 7: Of you, bro, You think I'm scared.

2488
02:03:21,000 --> 02:03:21,520
Speaker 3: Of you homie.

2489
02:03:21,680 --> 02:03:25,480
Speaker 15: Yeah, anyway, thank you this, Thank you for it, for

2490
02:03:25,640 --> 02:03:28,280
Speaker 15: like bringing it back to the data and shining the

2491
02:03:28,360 --> 02:03:31,240
Speaker 15: light on like people actually doing the work. You can

2492
02:03:31,240 --> 02:03:34,400
Speaker 15: follow you on Instagram. It's I am thiszle.

2493
02:03:34,080 --> 02:03:37,120
Speaker 5: Right, it's th hi is l this yeah, th h

2494
02:03:37,200 --> 02:03:40,000
Speaker 5: I s l fl like one hundred foundation dot org

2495
02:03:41,160 --> 02:03:43,120
Speaker 5: is the website social media.

2496
02:03:43,160 --> 02:03:44,520
Speaker 3: You've been found all that stuff there.

2497
02:03:44,680 --> 02:03:47,560
Speaker 15: You'll find all that all right, It can happen here.

2498
02:03:47,680 --> 02:03:49,680
Speaker 15: Cool zone media. We appreciate y'all.

2499
02:03:50,200 --> 02:03:51,000
Speaker 7: Appreciate you.

2500
02:03:51,040 --> 02:03:51,160
Speaker 5: Bro.

2501
02:03:51,720 --> 02:04:11,320
Speaker 3: Yes, sir, I'm not Robert Evans. I'm not going to

2502
02:04:11,360 --> 02:04:14,720
Speaker 3: start this episode with a horrible noise. Welcome to it

2503
02:04:14,760 --> 02:04:18,400
Speaker 3: could happen to hear a show about things falling apart

2504
02:04:19,400 --> 02:04:23,400
Speaker 3: with me today, Mio Wong, James Stout, I'm Garrison Davis.

2505
02:04:23,680 --> 02:04:27,840
Speaker 18: We have never as a society been this Year's of

2506
02:04:27,920 --> 02:04:32,280
Speaker 18: Lead paint as we are now, Oh my god.

2507
02:04:33,920 --> 02:04:34,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's not great.

2508
02:04:35,240 --> 02:04:38,080
Speaker 3: Speaking of things falling apart, the lead paint in my

2509
02:04:38,160 --> 02:04:41,360
Speaker 3: room is crumbling. It's probably great things to my brain, wonderful,

2510
02:04:41,400 --> 02:04:45,040
Speaker 3: love this, love this, so okay. Most a lot of

2511
02:04:45,040 --> 02:04:47,440
Speaker 3: this episode is going to be about the Charlie Kirk

2512
02:04:47,920 --> 02:04:50,960
Speaker 3: assassination and everyone's reaction to it, and everyone's sort of

2513
02:04:50,960 --> 02:04:54,400
Speaker 3: losing their minds. But I think that the place that

2514
02:04:54,440 --> 02:04:57,800
Speaker 3: we want to start is with a little bit about

2515
02:04:57,840 --> 02:04:59,720
Speaker 3: the concept of the years of Lead Paint, which is

2516
02:04:59,720 --> 02:05:03,080
Speaker 3: develop by friend of the show, Vicky Osterwall to explain

2517
02:05:03,160 --> 02:05:05,480
Speaker 3: something I feel like almost everyone's forgotten about, which was

2518
02:05:05,560 --> 02:05:07,800
Speaker 3: right after Trump got elected, there was that car bomb

2519
02:05:07,840 --> 02:05:10,760
Speaker 3: outside of a Trump hotel that was like a tesla

2520
02:05:10,840 --> 02:05:12,400
Speaker 3: that was a right winger who was trying to get

2521
02:05:12,400 --> 02:05:14,680
Speaker 3: everyone to like do the purge.

2522
02:05:16,480 --> 02:05:20,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, the cyber trek, former Green Beret guy.

2523
02:05:21,560 --> 02:05:22,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2524
02:05:22,360 --> 02:05:26,280
Speaker 18: And this is the kind of thing that you would

2525
02:05:26,320 --> 02:05:28,320
Speaker 18: have seen during the original Years of Lead.

2526
02:05:28,440 --> 02:05:28,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2527
02:05:29,320 --> 02:05:31,760
Speaker 18: So for people who don't know what the original Years

2528
02:05:31,760 --> 02:05:33,960
Speaker 18: of Lead was, because this is becoming a thing that

2529
02:05:34,000 --> 02:05:36,360
Speaker 18: people are using to understand what's going on now. And

2530
02:05:36,440 --> 02:05:39,160
Speaker 18: I think there are problems with that that we'll get to.

2531
02:05:40,200 --> 02:05:44,080
Speaker 18: But the original years of lead are this period from

2532
02:05:44,280 --> 02:05:46,320
Speaker 18: I mean that there's you know, you can you can

2533
02:05:46,320 --> 02:05:49,880
Speaker 18: start in a couple different places, but like roughly sort

2534
02:05:49,920 --> 02:05:52,640
Speaker 18: of like the sixties or the eighties, like early mid

2535
02:05:52,680 --> 02:05:58,200
Speaker 18: eighties in Italy that are this period of really really

2536
02:05:58,240 --> 02:06:01,040
Speaker 18: intensifies in the seventies. It's really really intense period of

2537
02:06:01,080 --> 02:06:06,400
Speaker 18: political violence in Italy. It is largely a right wing

2538
02:06:06,440 --> 02:06:11,440
Speaker 18: reaction to this massive series of uprisings in Italy. I mean,

2539
02:06:12,240 --> 02:06:16,080
Speaker 18: the whole the whole sixties in Italy are a time

2540
02:06:16,160 --> 02:06:19,560
Speaker 18: of incredible sort of turmoil and left wing uprising. There's

2541
02:06:20,440 --> 02:06:22,760
Speaker 18: I mean, I think there's first factory occupations are like

2542
02:06:22,800 --> 02:06:25,760
Speaker 18: sixty five, but there's the fact there's the massive factory

2543
02:06:25,800 --> 02:06:28,160
Speaker 18: occupations in nineteen sixty eight, which are sort of a

2544
02:06:28,200 --> 02:06:32,200
Speaker 18: global phenomena. But then also the next year there is

2545
02:06:32,240 --> 02:06:35,280
Speaker 18: an evance called and this is literally the term for it,

2546
02:06:35,320 --> 02:06:38,000
Speaker 18: the Hot Autumn of sixty nine, which.

2547
02:06:38,480 --> 02:06:41,440
Speaker 3: I'm not even gonna really a.

2548
02:06:41,080 --> 02:06:44,800
Speaker 18: Nice great yeah, which which was this massive like a

2549
02:06:44,880 --> 02:06:48,959
Speaker 18: second series of like you know, workers taking over factories

2550
02:06:48,960 --> 02:06:52,240
Speaker 18: and starting like factory councils, and like there are so

2551
02:06:52,320 --> 02:06:55,480
Speaker 18: many communist factions that, like the communist faction that's doing

2552
02:06:55,560 --> 02:06:57,920
Speaker 18: this stuff, they have mutated to a point where they're

2553
02:06:57,920 --> 02:07:01,360
Speaker 18: almost effectively anarchists. This is what's called the autonomists. And

2554
02:07:01,400 --> 02:07:03,720
Speaker 18: this becomes like a major influence on like American anarchism

2555
02:07:03,840 --> 02:07:06,920
Speaker 18: later and in response to the fact that these people

2556
02:07:07,400 --> 02:07:12,000
Speaker 18: very nearly on multiple occasions, like very nearly take Italy,

2557
02:07:12,720 --> 02:07:17,440
Speaker 18: a combination of rut wing fascist groups and organizations inside

2558
02:07:17,480 --> 02:07:21,280
Speaker 18: of and sort of parallel to the Italian government developed

2559
02:07:21,280 --> 02:07:24,560
Speaker 18: this thing called the strategy of tension, which and I

2560
02:07:24,560 --> 02:07:27,400
Speaker 18: think this will to some extent sound familiar in terms

2561
02:07:27,440 --> 02:07:31,280
Speaker 18: of what's happening right now, which is this strategy of

2562
02:07:31,680 --> 02:07:36,880
Speaker 18: using terrorist attacks and using political violence to show this

2563
02:07:37,160 --> 02:07:40,200
Speaker 18: like fear and panic and chaos that would cause people

2564
02:07:40,200 --> 02:07:42,480
Speaker 18: to turn to the state for safety and cause people

2565
02:07:42,520 --> 02:07:45,080
Speaker 18: to turn specifically to like a stronger, like more fascist

2566
02:07:45,080 --> 02:07:46,800
Speaker 18: and then eventually just a straight up fascist state that

2567
02:07:46,840 --> 02:07:50,000
Speaker 18: would permanently destroy the left and you know, like restore

2568
02:07:50,080 --> 02:07:52,000
Speaker 18: the power of the Nazis, et cetera, et cetera. Well,

2569
02:07:52,080 --> 02:07:55,040
Speaker 18: I mean not Muslin, these people Italian fascists, the og

2570
02:07:55,320 --> 02:07:58,960
Speaker 18: fascists well, and also neo fascists too, because they're these

2571
02:07:59,000 --> 02:08:00,920
Speaker 18: people are very weird Italians.

2572
02:08:01,680 --> 02:08:04,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, these people are Italians. Yeah, Yeah, many such cases.

2573
02:08:04,920 --> 02:08:06,800
Speaker 18: One of the big opening things is that the Piazza

2574
02:08:06,840 --> 02:08:09,640
Speaker 18: Fontana bombing, which is this massive bombing that kills nineteen

2575
02:08:09,640 --> 02:08:13,200
Speaker 18: people Injures, an unbelievable number of people, and it is

2576
02:08:13,280 --> 02:08:17,440
Speaker 18: immediately blamed on anarchists. There's an anarchist named Giuseppe Pinelli

2577
02:08:17,640 --> 02:08:21,360
Speaker 18: who he's among like eighty anarchists who arrested almost immediately,

2578
02:08:21,440 --> 02:08:24,720
Speaker 18: he like somehow falls out of a four story window

2579
02:08:24,800 --> 02:08:27,360
Speaker 18: of a police building while he was being interrogated.

2580
02:08:27,480 --> 02:08:28,600
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2581
02:08:28,680 --> 02:08:31,280
Speaker 3: The Italian state, which will go on to admit a

2582
02:08:31,320 --> 02:08:33,160
Speaker 3: lot of the shit that it did, maintains to this

2583
02:08:33,280 --> 02:08:34,880
Speaker 3: day that he just got tired and fell out the

2584
02:08:34,880 --> 02:08:38,520
Speaker 3: window himself. I'm gonna let you.

2585
02:08:38,440 --> 02:08:39,480
Speaker 6: Try your archductions.

2586
02:08:39,840 --> 02:08:41,840
Speaker 3: I think this guy died. I mean a lot of

2587
02:08:41,920 --> 02:08:43,280
Speaker 3: a lot of anarchists are lazy.

2588
02:08:43,360 --> 02:08:43,920
Speaker 6: I can see, I.

2589
02:08:43,960 --> 02:08:46,000
Speaker 3: Can see that happening. Yeah.

2590
02:08:46,040 --> 02:08:49,160
Speaker 6: There is a good a play that I took part

2591
02:08:49,160 --> 02:08:52,240
Speaker 6: in during high school called Accidental Death of an Anarchist

2592
02:08:52,280 --> 02:08:55,360
Speaker 6: by Dario Foe, Yeah, which you can enjoy.

2593
02:08:55,520 --> 02:09:00,880
Speaker 3: This is the most like James backstory moment seen before.

2594
02:09:01,440 --> 02:09:06,480
Speaker 3: This is wild. Yeah, whoa someone someone update the icy

2595
02:09:06,760 --> 02:09:12,600
Speaker 3: HH wiki page. James backstory. This is great.

2596
02:09:13,400 --> 02:09:15,080
Speaker 6: Yeah my theater era.

2597
02:09:15,360 --> 02:09:16,400
Speaker 3: Who did you play?

2598
02:09:16,640 --> 02:09:19,960
Speaker 6: I can't remember? It was tragic twenty years ago.

2599
02:09:20,200 --> 02:09:21,720
Speaker 3: You should you should have remembered.

2600
02:09:22,000 --> 02:09:24,240
Speaker 6: Oh, I know. It was very fun. We had a

2601
02:09:24,280 --> 02:09:27,320
Speaker 6: good soundtrack. It was very enjoyable for me and my friends,

2602
02:09:27,480 --> 02:09:29,920
Speaker 6: and I'm sure all eight people who watched it also

2603
02:09:29,960 --> 02:09:30,920
Speaker 6: had a wonderful time.

2604
02:09:34,320 --> 02:09:36,760
Speaker 18: So in less fun times, So this bombing was actually

2605
02:09:36,800 --> 02:09:39,280
Speaker 18: carried out by a group called Ordine Nouvo, which is

2606
02:09:39,680 --> 02:09:42,640
Speaker 18: it's literally new order. Fascist groups only have four names.

2607
02:09:43,960 --> 02:09:46,560
Speaker 18: And this is a group that was aided by a

2608
02:09:46,600 --> 02:09:50,560
Speaker 18: combination of Italian intelligence and this thing called Gladio, which

2609
02:09:50,640 --> 02:09:54,640
Speaker 18: was this American netwill sort of stayed behind networking case

2610
02:09:54,680 --> 02:09:57,760
Speaker 18: of Soviet invasion that had all of these weapons cashes

2611
02:09:57,760 --> 02:10:00,200
Speaker 18: placed around the country that's eventually sort of repurposed into

2612
02:10:00,200 --> 02:10:03,280
Speaker 18: these fascist terror cells. And they do a lot of these, right,

2613
02:10:03,320 --> 02:10:06,280
Speaker 18: They do a lot of bombings and they and they

2614
02:10:06,320 --> 02:10:08,960
Speaker 18: mostly blame the left for them. Probably the most famous

2615
02:10:09,000 --> 02:10:11,280
Speaker 18: one is the Bologna train bombing, which killed like eighty

2616
02:10:11,320 --> 02:10:14,080
Speaker 18: people injured a huge number of other people, was done

2617
02:10:14,080 --> 02:10:17,320
Speaker 18: by a kind of like like another fascist group. Right,

2618
02:10:17,960 --> 02:10:20,480
Speaker 18: this is also a period where like there is real

2619
02:10:20,560 --> 02:10:23,520
Speaker 18: left wing violence. Right, the left is doing like like well,

2620
02:10:23,520 --> 02:10:25,760
Speaker 18: one of the things they kidnap bosses and have like

2621
02:10:26,000 --> 02:10:28,800
Speaker 18: show trials of bosses all the time. They love doing

2622
02:10:28,840 --> 02:10:31,200
Speaker 18: this factory bosses.

2623
02:10:31,360 --> 02:10:36,240
Speaker 3: Just like in The Dark Knight Rises by Marxist historian

2624
02:10:36,320 --> 02:10:39,000
Speaker 3: Christopher Nolan. God.

2625
02:10:39,920 --> 02:10:41,360
Speaker 18: I see, I thought you were gonna say, just like

2626
02:10:41,360 --> 02:10:42,200
Speaker 18: cancel culture, but.

2627
02:10:43,400 --> 02:10:46,720
Speaker 3: Just like just like what the right's doing right now

2628
02:10:46,760 --> 02:10:50,160
Speaker 3: for anyone who posts about Charlie Kirk, you know.

2629
02:10:50,240 --> 02:10:52,720
Speaker 18: But but there was also stuff like, for example, Lota Continua,

2630
02:10:52,840 --> 02:10:57,200
Speaker 18: which is a leftist group of staggering complexity, I like

2631
02:10:57,680 --> 02:11:02,440
Speaker 18: killed the police officer who was interrogating Guiseppe Pinelli. So

2632
02:11:02,640 --> 02:11:05,240
Speaker 18: you know, like there are left wing assassinations. A group

2633
02:11:05,280 --> 02:11:08,560
Speaker 18: called the Red Brigades kidnaps the former Prime Minister of Italy,

2634
02:11:08,600 --> 02:11:11,720
Speaker 18: Aldo Moro. See every other episode where I've yelled about this.

2635
02:11:12,680 --> 02:11:14,520
Speaker 18: They had been heavily infiltrated and were sort of being

2636
02:11:14,520 --> 02:11:17,600
Speaker 18: manipulated by a number of intelligence organizations that if I

2637
02:11:17,600 --> 02:11:19,200
Speaker 18: started listening to them right now, you would think I

2638
02:11:19,240 --> 02:11:23,480
Speaker 18: was insane. Yeah, But the important thing about this period, right,

2639
02:11:23,520 --> 02:11:26,840
Speaker 18: and this eventually works, it does destroy the left. But

2640
02:11:27,440 --> 02:11:30,280
Speaker 18: the important thing about the structure of this in the

2641
02:11:30,320 --> 02:11:34,640
Speaker 18: actual years of lead is that these are concrete groups, right.

2642
02:11:34,680 --> 02:11:37,240
Speaker 18: They are shifting, they are flowing, people move between.

2643
02:11:37,000 --> 02:11:41,040
Speaker 3: Them, but actual organized factions any a legitimate armed struggle,

2644
02:11:41,120 --> 02:11:41,440
Speaker 3: I mean.

2645
02:11:41,320 --> 02:11:44,480
Speaker 6: The Red Brigades are literally organized in a military fashion, right,

2646
02:11:44,760 --> 02:11:47,000
Speaker 6: with like units and command structure.

2647
02:11:47,440 --> 02:11:49,040
Speaker 18: But this is also true of like, this is also

2648
02:11:49,040 --> 02:11:52,640
Speaker 18: true of the fascists, right, yeah, and it's also true

2649
02:11:52,760 --> 02:11:56,480
Speaker 18: of group I mean, you know, like obviously like autonomia

2650
02:11:56,560 --> 02:12:00,879
Speaker 18: and the sort of like anarchistic communist factions are looser,

2651
02:12:00,920 --> 02:12:03,400
Speaker 18: but like they're still they still are like organized, and

2652
02:12:03,400 --> 02:12:05,680
Speaker 18: they're rooted in a whole bunch of different kinds of struggles.

2653
02:12:06,120 --> 02:12:11,280
Speaker 18: And the strategy of tension is being deliberately managed by

2654
02:12:11,760 --> 02:12:15,240
Speaker 18: by Italian intelligence and by American intelligence, and by a

2655
02:12:15,280 --> 02:12:19,160
Speaker 18: bunch of other sort of like state groups. And this

2656
02:12:19,360 --> 02:12:22,040
Speaker 18: is not at all what we're dealing with right now,

2657
02:12:22,160 --> 02:12:27,120
Speaker 18: not even close yet. The Charlie Kirk assassination is neither

2658
02:12:27,320 --> 02:12:30,200
Speaker 18: a guy who was part of like some Marxist group,

2659
02:12:30,560 --> 02:12:33,800
Speaker 18: nor was it a guy who's like a CIA agent

2660
02:12:34,080 --> 02:12:34,920
Speaker 18: or something.

2661
02:12:34,720 --> 02:12:37,240
Speaker 6: Right, like just a guy it's a guy who got.

2662
02:12:38,200 --> 02:12:40,440
Speaker 3: Reddit gamer and discord political violence.

2663
02:12:40,840 --> 02:12:43,400
Speaker 18: Yeah, these are these are these these are decentralized acts

2664
02:12:43,400 --> 02:12:46,560
Speaker 18: being fueled by sort of radicalization. But they're not like

2665
02:12:46,720 --> 02:12:48,560
Speaker 18: active intelligence operations.

2666
02:12:48,840 --> 02:12:50,880
Speaker 3: I mean some of them aren't even fueled by radical

2667
02:12:50,960 --> 02:12:53,360
Speaker 3: Like even even the word radicalization here is sometimes in

2668
02:12:53,400 --> 02:12:57,440
Speaker 3: miss This one in particular is like not that really

2669
02:12:57,920 --> 02:13:00,320
Speaker 3: a degree. It seems like a degree of like personal

2670
02:13:00,800 --> 02:13:04,840
Speaker 3: motivation based on his relationship with his roommate as well

2671
02:13:04,840 --> 02:13:09,760
Speaker 3: as this general like gen Z sort of nihilism that

2672
02:13:09,840 --> 02:13:13,400
Speaker 3: allows you to do a pretty wild act like this,

2673
02:13:13,920 --> 02:13:15,960
Speaker 3: I think specifically in this case, you know, it's like

2674
02:13:16,400 --> 02:13:21,360
Speaker 3: existential violence manifesting an incredibly political action from someone who

2675
02:13:21,360 --> 02:13:25,320
Speaker 3: otherwise isn't like overtly political. This guy's not a leftist.

2676
02:13:26,000 --> 02:13:28,320
Speaker 3: It's definitely not a groper, as I've been trying to

2677
02:13:28,440 --> 02:13:32,560
Speaker 3: argue for days now. Yeah, but I mean what he

2678
02:13:32,640 --> 02:13:35,360
Speaker 3: did certainly is is political, even though he's not you know,

2679
02:13:35,480 --> 02:13:39,040
Speaker 3: card carrying, you know, communist or you know, an anti imperialist,

2680
02:13:39,240 --> 02:13:42,280
Speaker 3: like the guy who assassinated the to Israel embassy staffers

2681
02:13:42,360 --> 02:13:44,600
Speaker 3: was right, which is kind of the only arguably like

2682
02:13:44,760 --> 02:13:48,800
Speaker 3: left wing assassin we've like seen in the past, I

2683
02:13:48,840 --> 02:13:51,800
Speaker 3: don't know, ten years in the United States, is the

2684
02:13:51,960 --> 02:13:55,160
Speaker 3: guy who killed the two Israeli embassy staffers. Yeah, every

2685
02:13:55,160 --> 02:13:58,920
Speaker 3: other assassin or attended assassin would not accurately be described

2686
02:13:58,960 --> 02:14:03,120
Speaker 3: as like left wing in orientation, including someone like Luigi Mangioni,

2687
02:14:03,440 --> 02:14:09,360
Speaker 3: who are very much not basically a teapot gray tribe libertarian. Yeah.

2688
02:14:10,160 --> 02:14:10,400
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2689
02:14:10,600 --> 02:14:12,960
Speaker 18: And it's also worth noting that like from the state end,

2690
02:14:13,040 --> 02:14:15,720
Speaker 18: these like this is not something that was like deliberately

2691
02:14:15,760 --> 02:14:17,800
Speaker 18: unleashed by the state, except in the sense of like,

2692
02:14:18,080 --> 02:14:19,040
Speaker 18: well some.

2693
02:14:18,960 --> 02:14:22,720
Speaker 3: People would argue otherwise, Yeah, but wrong right there.

2694
02:14:23,080 --> 02:14:25,760
Speaker 18: If that's the issue, you know, like like if like

2695
02:14:25,840 --> 02:14:28,080
Speaker 18: the last time we saw something that you could argue

2696
02:14:28,120 --> 02:14:31,160
Speaker 18: even sort of look like that is like there is

2697
02:14:31,280 --> 02:14:33,880
Speaker 18: genuinely something kind of suspicious about the way that a

2698
02:14:33,880 --> 02:14:36,240
Speaker 18: whole bunch of the most famous Black Lives Matter activists

2699
02:14:36,280 --> 02:14:38,680
Speaker 18: who weren't the ones in the NGO suddenly turned up dead.

2700
02:14:39,040 --> 02:14:42,520
Speaker 18: That's the closest thing, right, And that's not even a

2701
02:14:42,720 --> 02:14:45,080
Speaker 18: like we know they did this, that's a like and

2702
02:14:45,080 --> 02:14:47,360
Speaker 18: that was and that was over a decade ago, yeah, right,

2703
02:14:47,360 --> 02:14:48,680
Speaker 18: that this is this is a long time ago, and

2704
02:14:48,720 --> 02:14:51,160
Speaker 18: you know, and and I would argue it's important in

2705
02:14:51,200 --> 02:14:53,680
Speaker 18: that it's part of the same series of uprisings that

2706
02:14:53,800 --> 02:14:56,280
Speaker 18: like all of this fascist stuff is a response to right,

2707
02:14:56,680 --> 02:14:59,200
Speaker 18: it's a response to Ferguson, it's response to twenty twenty.

2708
02:14:59,720 --> 02:15:03,080
Speaker 18: But that structure, which is the structure that a lot

2709
02:15:03,080 --> 02:15:05,560
Speaker 18: of people are using to analyze this of just purely

2710
02:15:05,600 --> 02:15:10,280
Speaker 18: in American years of lead doesn't really work because we're

2711
02:15:10,280 --> 02:15:15,680
Speaker 18: dealing with something way weirder, yeah, and way less concrete.

2712
02:15:15,280 --> 02:15:19,040
Speaker 3: Which is why we're calling it something else, the years

2713
02:15:19,040 --> 02:15:22,960
Speaker 3: of lead paint, because these people are just like because

2714
02:15:23,000 --> 02:15:26,840
Speaker 3: it is not the result of this large scale like

2715
02:15:27,000 --> 02:15:32,360
Speaker 3: deep state orchestration, nor these legitimate organized fashions. Everyone is

2716
02:15:32,400 --> 02:15:35,040
Speaker 3: simply brain rotted. Yeah. Yeah.

2717
02:15:35,640 --> 02:15:38,760
Speaker 6: To contrast, right in the twentieth century that the prevailing

2718
02:15:38,880 --> 02:15:43,080
Speaker 6: concept of how the left would change the world was

2719
02:15:43,120 --> 02:15:46,200
Speaker 6: through the violent capture of state institutions or in the

2720
02:15:46,240 --> 02:15:49,760
Speaker 6: case of the anarchists, I guess less. So that you know,

2721
02:15:49,840 --> 02:15:52,840
Speaker 6: if we look at like this communist ideal of revolution.

2722
02:15:52,440 --> 02:15:54,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, how's that anarchist revolution going, buddy?

2723
02:15:55,760 --> 02:15:58,680
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, these guys are thirty years after the

2724
02:15:58,720 --> 02:16:03,200
Speaker 6: Spanish Revolution, rights some of them have seen anarchists hold

2725
02:16:03,240 --> 02:16:06,280
Speaker 6: whole cities and hold off the country's army. It's not

2726
02:16:06,360 --> 02:16:10,160
Speaker 6: out of the out of the realm of possibility for them.

2727
02:16:10,320 --> 02:16:13,280
Speaker 6: That concept of revolution, I mean, it does exist. It

2728
02:16:13,320 --> 02:16:16,160
Speaker 6: exists with people with like anime Twitter avatars still, but

2729
02:16:16,400 --> 02:16:19,440
Speaker 6: like for the most part, that concept of revolution is

2730
02:16:19,480 --> 02:16:23,360
Speaker 6: not that relevant in twenty first century leftist political organizing

2731
02:16:23,640 --> 02:16:27,080
Speaker 6: and so like it cannot be the same because the

2732
02:16:27,200 --> 02:16:30,400
Speaker 6: nature of the thing that that's the struggle, it's not

2733
02:16:30,440 --> 02:16:31,280
Speaker 6: the same on the left.

2734
02:16:31,640 --> 02:16:34,720
Speaker 3: There isn't even illegitimate left in the United States, like

2735
02:16:35,080 --> 02:16:36,440
Speaker 3: in any meaningful sense.

2736
02:16:36,840 --> 02:16:40,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean that there exists, Like I guess it's

2737
02:16:40,200 --> 02:16:42,120
Speaker 6: like I don't want to call it incoherent, but like

2738
02:16:42,200 --> 02:16:45,800
Speaker 6: a lot of the left exists. The people going hardest

2739
02:16:45,800 --> 02:16:47,720
Speaker 6: on the left are going hardest on the internet. I guess,

2740
02:16:47,720 --> 02:16:49,680
Speaker 6: this is what I want to say. And like, this

2741
02:16:49,800 --> 02:16:52,400
Speaker 6: is nothing like post sixty eight Italy.

2742
02:16:52,879 --> 02:16:55,440
Speaker 3: We've seen a nice, nice like resurgence, stuff like union

2743
02:16:55,520 --> 02:16:59,400
Speaker 3: organizing and that's like the most realistic manifestation of the left.

2744
02:16:59,200 --> 02:17:01,960
Speaker 6: But mutual aid organizing.

2745
02:17:02,040 --> 02:17:04,520
Speaker 18: And I will also say we did have this band

2746
02:17:04,520 --> 02:17:07,080
Speaker 18: from twenty eleven to twenty twenty was like a really

2747
02:17:07,160 --> 02:17:12,560
Speaker 18: massive period of like really large scale street movement in

2748
02:17:12,600 --> 02:17:18,600
Speaker 18: a way that really terrified these people, Like twenty fourteen

2749
02:17:18,680 --> 02:17:24,480
Speaker 18: petificlarly Ferguson and twenty twenty like really truly rattled the

2750
02:17:24,520 --> 02:17:29,560
Speaker 18: psychology of all of the people who who are like

2751
02:17:29,640 --> 02:17:33,200
Speaker 18: currently running this country in that it demonstrated that like,

2752
02:17:34,000 --> 02:17:35,279
Speaker 18: oh damn, there could.

2753
02:17:35,080 --> 02:17:35,720
Speaker 10: Be a world.

2754
02:17:35,879 --> 02:17:39,959
Speaker 18: We're like, we're not automatically the superior race and we're

2755
02:17:40,000 --> 02:17:43,680
Speaker 18: not like treated like that because it's betting bullshit and

2756
02:17:43,680 --> 02:17:47,680
Speaker 18: people were willing to fight for that. But also like, yeah, no,

2757
02:17:47,760 --> 02:17:49,879
Speaker 18: like we don't have the kind of like organization or

2758
02:17:49,879 --> 02:17:51,880
Speaker 18: logistical capacity that like any of these things had, and

2759
02:17:51,920 --> 02:17:55,840
Speaker 18: it's not clear to me that you like, you won't

2760
02:17:56,400 --> 02:17:58,680
Speaker 18: get things that look like that anymore.

2761
02:17:59,040 --> 02:18:02,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, as much much is like the right wing YouTube

2762
02:18:02,160 --> 02:18:05,600
Speaker 6: podcast Sphear wants to make it the case. First of all,

2763
02:18:05,879 --> 02:18:08,880
Speaker 6: there is not like an organized revolutionary left in the US,

2764
02:18:09,000 --> 02:18:12,119
Speaker 6: not as not a serious one. And secondly, like the

2765
02:18:12,240 --> 02:18:17,560
Speaker 6: organized revolutionary left that existed in twentieth century relied on

2766
02:18:17,720 --> 02:18:21,959
Speaker 6: a network that was international and that sometimes and not

2767
02:18:22,080 --> 02:18:26,439
Speaker 6: always had its roots in Soviet I guess foreign policy

2768
02:18:26,680 --> 02:18:28,520
Speaker 6: right that also does not like as much as a

2769
02:18:28,600 --> 02:18:31,080
Speaker 6: YouTube world wished to be the case. China is not

2770
02:18:32,160 --> 02:18:35,360
Speaker 6: sending people little yellow hard hats to go out in

2771
02:18:35,400 --> 02:18:37,840
Speaker 6: Portland and get mad at the Feds being there. That

2772
02:18:38,120 --> 02:18:41,600
Speaker 6: is not the case. Here's an advert for hard hats,

2773
02:18:41,760 --> 02:18:44,120
Speaker 6: which you have to buy in your own because China

2774
02:18:44,280 --> 02:18:45,280
Speaker 6: is not sending them to you.

2775
02:18:55,959 --> 02:19:02,280
Speaker 3: We're back talking lead paint, King of lead paint, and

2776
02:19:02,360 --> 02:19:05,600
Speaker 3: in some ways the conspiratorial elements of the years of lead.

2777
02:19:06,120 --> 02:19:09,800
Speaker 3: There is no shortage of conspiratorial thought permeating across the

2778
02:19:09,959 --> 02:19:13,400
Speaker 3: entire spectrum of American politics in ways that I've never

2779
02:19:13,440 --> 02:19:17,000
Speaker 3: really seen at this scale before, which isn't saying much

2780
02:19:17,040 --> 02:19:20,000
Speaker 3: because you know, I'm not, however, old James Is, but

2781
02:19:20,160 --> 02:19:28,240
Speaker 3: I have been Gris who fuck me, but I have

2782
02:19:28,440 --> 02:19:35,560
Speaker 3: been monitor industream was politics was a decent section of time,

2783
02:19:37,160 --> 02:19:40,560
Speaker 3: mainly the past like seven years, the past like five

2784
02:19:40,640 --> 02:19:41,240
Speaker 3: or so years.

2785
02:19:41,240 --> 02:19:44,240
Speaker 6: Professionally, We're gonna have to watch another video because of

2786
02:19:44,280 --> 02:19:46,840
Speaker 6: this whole second of the scarison. I have you known.

2787
02:19:46,840 --> 02:19:49,920
Speaker 3: I'm actually multiple months later for my workplace harassment training.

2788
02:19:51,120 --> 02:19:54,119
Speaker 6: I can see why, My god.

2789
02:19:54,360 --> 02:19:58,080
Speaker 3: But it's it's it's it's pretty bad. Just the the

2790
02:19:58,520 --> 02:20:01,280
Speaker 3: total rejection of reality in the separation of truth and

2791
02:20:01,360 --> 02:20:05,199
Speaker 3: reality as coherent concepts. And we've seen this and some

2792
02:20:05,280 --> 02:20:09,600
Speaker 3: of people's responses across the political spectrum to the release

2793
02:20:09,800 --> 02:20:14,160
Speaker 3: of alleged text messages between the alleged shooter of Charlie

2794
02:20:14,200 --> 02:20:17,800
Speaker 3: Kirk and their roommate, which was released in the indictment

2795
02:20:17,920 --> 02:20:21,480
Speaker 3: that dropped on Monday, which shows the a lled shooter

2796
02:20:21,560 --> 02:20:24,920
Speaker 3: explaining to their roommate what they did and like how

2797
02:20:24,959 --> 02:20:28,800
Speaker 3: they did it and in part why we'll talk more

2798
02:20:28,840 --> 02:20:31,600
Speaker 3: about this in Executive Disorder. These actual messages and like

2799
02:20:31,640 --> 02:20:34,960
Speaker 3: what they contain, but people's reaction to them, both on

2800
02:20:35,000 --> 02:20:39,840
Speaker 3: the left and right, have been pretty wild. Matt Walsh

2801
02:20:40,040 --> 02:20:44,880
Speaker 3: is arguing that these messages were scripted between the roommate

2802
02:20:44,959 --> 02:20:50,080
Speaker 3: and the shooter as a way to absolve the transgender roommate,

2803
02:20:50,600 --> 02:20:54,119
Speaker 3: referring to this strategy as being influenced by Breaking Bad.

2804
02:20:55,920 --> 02:21:01,080
Speaker 3: What a Breaking Bad is a television show, an American

2805
02:21:01,080 --> 02:21:04,480
Speaker 3: television show released around two thousand and eight. I'm not

2806
02:21:04,520 --> 02:21:05,760
Speaker 3: going to explain Breaking Bad.

2807
02:21:06,000 --> 02:21:07,040
Speaker 6: Garretson do you remember that?

2808
02:21:09,560 --> 02:21:13,160
Speaker 3: Oh my god, you were like Matt Walsh's. Matt Walsh

2809
02:21:13,240 --> 02:21:15,680
Speaker 3: is comparing this to to something that Walter White did

2810
02:21:15,800 --> 02:21:19,000
Speaker 3: during during Breaking Bad, saying that this feels like a

2811
02:21:19,000 --> 02:21:21,840
Speaker 3: strategy that these two people cooked up by watching too

2812
02:21:21,879 --> 02:21:24,080
Speaker 3: much TV, which in fact just shows that it is

2813
02:21:24,080 --> 02:21:26,720
Speaker 3: Matt Walsh who watches too much TV, by the fact

2814
02:21:26,720 --> 02:21:28,959
Speaker 3: that this is the first thing he thinks of. But

2815
02:21:29,240 --> 02:21:33,160
Speaker 3: it's not just Walsh. Communists, anti imperialists, people on the

2816
02:21:33,240 --> 02:21:36,920
Speaker 3: left are spreading a completely unfounded assertion that this text

2817
02:21:36,959 --> 02:21:40,480
Speaker 3: exchange between the roommate and the alleged shooter was quote

2818
02:21:40,560 --> 02:21:44,600
Speaker 3: unquote obviously written by an FBI agent. Posts like this

2819
02:21:44,760 --> 02:21:49,240
Speaker 3: are receiving tens of thousands of likes cross platforms. Yeah,

2820
02:21:49,480 --> 02:21:52,720
Speaker 3: it's such a misunderstanding of how state craft works and

2821
02:21:52,760 --> 02:21:57,000
Speaker 3: how like the legal system works that people communists really

2822
02:21:57,040 --> 02:22:00,400
Speaker 3: think that this state of Utah could could orchest straight

2823
02:22:00,920 --> 02:22:07,880
Speaker 3: and convincingly, convincingly orchestrate completely faked text exchanges Like that's

2824
02:22:07,920 --> 02:22:11,560
Speaker 3: just simply not how our legal system works. And you

2825
02:22:11,640 --> 02:22:15,640
Speaker 3: have people like Hassan spreading this sort of stuff. Yeah.

2826
02:22:15,720 --> 02:22:18,440
Speaker 3: Quote half of the right thinks the messages are fake

2827
02:22:18,520 --> 02:22:21,720
Speaker 3: because it doesn't implicate the transperson. The other half thinks

2828
02:22:21,760 --> 02:22:23,840
Speaker 3: the shooter is a patsy because it was Israel that

2829
02:22:23,920 --> 02:22:26,440
Speaker 3: killed Charlie Kirk. I will say the text messages are

2830
02:22:26,440 --> 02:22:31,760
Speaker 3: too perfectly plugging holes for the investigators. Unnatural, Like come on,

2831
02:22:32,480 --> 02:22:37,600
Speaker 3: come on, come on, guys. This is like I don't

2832
02:22:37,600 --> 02:22:40,160
Speaker 3: even know what to like argue with, Like there's no

2833
02:22:40,240 --> 02:22:43,480
Speaker 3: way to argue against people who believe in this in

2834
02:22:43,520 --> 02:22:44,720
Speaker 3: any kind of real way.

2835
02:22:45,040 --> 02:22:48,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, right, Like, how do you someone who has rejected facts? Like,

2836
02:22:48,320 --> 02:22:49,720
Speaker 6: how do you bring them back?

2837
02:22:50,280 --> 02:22:52,440
Speaker 3: They have to argue in court that the led shooter

2838
02:22:52,480 --> 02:22:55,160
Speaker 3: actually did the shooting, right, That's what they're trying to establish. Yeah,

2839
02:22:55,200 --> 02:22:58,480
Speaker 3: this is the evidence that will be agreed upon as

2840
02:22:58,600 --> 02:23:02,039
Speaker 3: as evidence. To introduce the text messages in court, the

2841
02:23:02,120 --> 02:23:05,600
Speaker 3: DA will have to prove their authenticity through chain of

2842
02:23:05,640 --> 02:23:08,800
Speaker 3: custody and metadata. The reason why they were released now

2843
02:23:08,879 --> 02:23:11,959
Speaker 3: is because they were included in the indictment laying out

2844
02:23:11,959 --> 02:23:16,760
Speaker 3: the charges against Tyler Robinson. Robinson might use some odd words,

2845
02:23:16,959 --> 02:23:19,680
Speaker 3: but he was raised Mormon and all this just tracks

2846
02:23:19,760 --> 02:23:23,119
Speaker 3: at a face level to me. He's explaining his actions

2847
02:23:23,120 --> 02:23:25,800
Speaker 3: to the person that he loves and instructs them to

2848
02:23:25,920 --> 02:23:28,240
Speaker 3: delete the messages. He doesn't think that these are going

2849
02:23:28,320 --> 02:23:30,400
Speaker 3: to come back to hurt him. And this isn't just

2850
02:23:30,480 --> 02:23:33,640
Speaker 3: Betel's FBI saying this, This is the work of local

2851
02:23:33,640 --> 02:23:36,560
Speaker 3: police and State of Utah police in the State of

2852
02:23:36,680 --> 02:23:39,280
Speaker 3: Utah court, and this rejection of evidence, not what the

2853
02:23:39,280 --> 02:23:43,039
Speaker 3: evidence argues, just the base evidence itself. Follows a week

2854
02:23:43,120 --> 02:23:47,600
Speaker 3: of debate regarding this shooter's political orientation, which me and

2855
02:23:47,680 --> 02:23:51,360
Speaker 3: Robert already discussed in an episode earlier this week. And

2856
02:23:51,400 --> 02:23:55,520
Speaker 3: I understand people's intensity around this issue, especially framing it

2857
02:23:55,560 --> 02:23:58,480
Speaker 3: in this years of led concept right of the right

2858
02:23:58,640 --> 02:24:02,080
Speaker 3: using this to major crackdown on trans people and on

2859
02:24:02,160 --> 02:24:05,320
Speaker 3: the left, which yeah, they're going to try to do.

2860
02:24:05,920 --> 02:24:08,360
Speaker 3: But trying to argue at this point that he's a

2861
02:24:08,400 --> 02:24:12,160
Speaker 3: groyper is just so faulty, and trying to argue that

2862
02:24:12,400 --> 02:24:17,240
Speaker 3: these text messages are faked somehow, similarly, is just so

2863
02:24:17,360 --> 02:24:21,000
Speaker 3: faulty and is so detached from how this situation actually

2864
02:24:21,040 --> 02:24:24,520
Speaker 3: happened and how it fits in to the current dynamic

2865
02:24:24,600 --> 02:24:27,800
Speaker 3: of political violence in the United States. On that topic,

2866
02:24:28,040 --> 02:24:31,039
Speaker 3: a few days ago, Fox News is the Five was

2867
02:24:31,080 --> 02:24:34,680
Speaker 3: debating if they needed more information to definitively say that

2868
02:24:34,720 --> 02:24:39,000
Speaker 3: the shooter was on quote unquote the left. Greg Gutfield

2869
02:24:39,320 --> 02:24:42,280
Speaker 3: went on about how high profile liberal and left wing

2870
02:24:42,320 --> 02:24:46,959
Speaker 3: figures aren't being assassinated by people on the right and

2871
02:24:47,080 --> 02:24:50,640
Speaker 3: wrote off the murder of Minnesota House Speaker Melissa Hartman

2872
02:24:50,760 --> 02:24:51,640
Speaker 3: and her husband.

2873
02:24:51,920 --> 02:24:55,440
Speaker 19: We don't need more information, really, yes, we don't need it.

2874
02:24:55,680 --> 02:24:59,440
Speaker 19: What is interesting here is why is only this happening

2875
02:24:59,480 --> 02:25:00,680
Speaker 19: on the left and not the right.

2876
02:25:00,920 --> 02:25:02,200
Speaker 3: That's all we need to know about that.

2877
02:25:02,240 --> 02:25:05,879
Speaker 18: There was absolutely no cos you want to.

2878
02:25:05,840 --> 02:25:08,920
Speaker 19: Talk about Meliss Horseman. Did you know her name before

2879
02:25:08,959 --> 02:25:11,440
Speaker 19: it happened? None of us did. None of us were

2880
02:25:11,480 --> 02:25:14,720
Speaker 19: spending every single day talking about missus Hortman. I never

2881
02:25:14,760 --> 02:25:16,800
Speaker 19: heard of her until after she died. The matter, And

2882
02:25:18,280 --> 02:25:20,200
Speaker 19: don't play that bullshit with me.

2883
02:25:20,560 --> 02:25:21,640
Speaker 7: You know what I'm talking.

2884
02:25:21,760 --> 02:25:25,560
Speaker 19: What I'm saying is there was no demonization amplification about

2885
02:25:25,560 --> 02:25:28,680
Speaker 19: that woman before she died. It was a specific crime

2886
02:25:28,720 --> 02:25:30,119
Speaker 19: against her by somebody.

2887
02:25:29,840 --> 02:25:31,160
Speaker 3: Who knew her, the same thing.

2888
02:25:31,480 --> 02:25:33,280
Speaker 19: You can bring up, Joshua Piro, but then you will

2889
02:25:33,280 --> 02:25:35,280
Speaker 19: not bring up, for example, that that was a pro

2890
02:25:35,560 --> 02:25:36,680
Speaker 19: Palestine person.

2891
02:25:37,040 --> 02:25:39,080
Speaker 7: So don't use your what about this.

2892
02:25:39,320 --> 02:25:40,039
Speaker 3: The fact, the.

2893
02:25:40,040 --> 02:25:44,360
Speaker 19: Fact of the matter is the both sides argument not

2894
02:25:44,480 --> 02:25:45,360
Speaker 19: only doesn't fly.

2895
02:25:46,200 --> 02:25:48,680
Speaker 3: We don't care. We don't care.

2896
02:25:48,520 --> 02:25:52,400
Speaker 19: About your both sides argument that shit is dead. For

2897
02:25:52,480 --> 02:25:55,039
Speaker 19: one thing, there is no cognitive dissonance on our.

2898
02:25:54,959 --> 02:25:56,640
Speaker 2: Side on your side.

2899
02:25:56,840 --> 02:26:01,280
Speaker 19: Your beliefs do not match reality, so you're coming up

2900
02:26:01,280 --> 02:26:05,400
Speaker 19: with these rationalizations like what about this or what about that.

2901
02:26:05,720 --> 02:26:09,280
Speaker 19: We're not doing that because we saw it happen. We

2902
02:26:09,400 --> 02:26:14,160
Speaker 19: saw a young bright man assassinated, and we.

2903
02:26:14,160 --> 02:26:16,000
Speaker 3: Know who did it. So if you look at like

2904
02:26:16,080 --> 02:26:19,320
Speaker 3: left wing violence or violence targeting right wing figures, even

2905
02:26:19,360 --> 02:26:21,360
Speaker 3: just like the past two years, right, there's the two

2906
02:26:21,400 --> 02:26:25,480
Speaker 3: attempted Trump assassinations, which the right frames as left wing violence.

2907
02:26:25,560 --> 02:26:29,120
Speaker 3: Though the first Trump shooter did not have left wing politics.

2908
02:26:29,200 --> 02:26:32,280
Speaker 3: They had more of the psychological profile of a school

2909
02:26:32,360 --> 02:26:35,720
Speaker 3: shooter who was looking to do something to get into

2910
02:26:35,920 --> 02:26:39,640
Speaker 3: history books and came from a conservative upbringing. This person

2911
02:26:39,680 --> 02:26:41,880
Speaker 3: was on a leftist right. But this is still targeting

2912
02:26:41,959 --> 02:26:45,240
Speaker 3: a right wing figure, so it's framed in this same conversation.

2913
02:26:45,879 --> 02:26:49,560
Speaker 3: The United Healthcare assassination similarly right, this wasn't a left

2914
02:26:49,560 --> 02:26:53,200
Speaker 3: wing person who did this, but targeting a CEO on

2915
02:26:53,320 --> 02:26:56,800
Speaker 3: a healthcare topic associates it with the left or with

2916
02:26:56,840 --> 02:27:01,000
Speaker 3: progressive stances around healthcare. There's the arson against Jo Shapiro's home.

2917
02:27:01,480 --> 02:27:03,640
Speaker 3: The guy who did this had a mixture of like

2918
02:27:03,640 --> 02:27:08,360
Speaker 3: a pro Trump background but with pro Palestine motivations. The

2919
02:27:08,400 --> 02:27:11,480
Speaker 3: most clear example would be the murder of two Israeli

2920
02:27:11,480 --> 02:27:15,039
Speaker 3: Empacy staffers, and now the assassination of Charlie Kirk.

2921
02:27:15,240 --> 02:27:17,480
Speaker 6: With the healthcare stuff, like we should probably point out

2922
02:27:17,520 --> 02:27:21,200
Speaker 6: the Trump also ran on like medicine is too expensive, right,

2923
02:27:21,760 --> 02:27:23,520
Speaker 6: it would cost too much to get the pills you

2924
02:27:23,560 --> 02:27:25,640
Speaker 6: need to stay alive. Like that has been a cornerstone

2925
02:27:25,680 --> 02:27:27,400
Speaker 6: of his platform too. It can be framed as like

2926
02:27:27,400 --> 02:27:31,120
Speaker 6: a populist sentiment of populist stance, yeah, yeah, not necessarily

2927
02:27:31,160 --> 02:27:32,040
Speaker 6: a leftist one.

2928
02:27:32,080 --> 02:27:36,280
Speaker 3: So that's the political background that these people on the

2929
02:27:36,320 --> 02:27:38,400
Speaker 3: right are like coming from right, Like that's how they

2930
02:27:38,840 --> 02:27:41,720
Speaker 3: see see this that that's like this spike and left

2931
02:27:41,800 --> 02:27:45,200
Speaker 3: being violence that they're seeing refers to this collection of acts.

2932
02:27:45,680 --> 02:27:45,880
Speaker 7: Now.

2933
02:27:46,000 --> 02:27:49,600
Speaker 3: For Media has reported that a few days after Charliekirk's assassination,

2934
02:27:49,800 --> 02:27:53,240
Speaker 3: the Department of Justice removed from their website a National

2935
02:27:53,280 --> 02:27:57,320
Speaker 3: Institute of Justice research study showing a white supremacist and

2936
02:27:57,440 --> 02:28:01,600
Speaker 3: far right violence far outweighs any other type of terrorism

2937
02:28:01,720 --> 02:28:05,520
Speaker 3: or domestic violent extremism. Quote. Since nineteen ninety, far right

2938
02:28:05,520 --> 02:28:09,000
Speaker 3: extremists have committed far more ideologically motivated homicides than far

2939
02:28:09,080 --> 02:28:13,560
Speaker 3: left or radical Islamist extremists, including two hundred and twenty

2940
02:28:13,840 --> 02:28:18,480
Speaker 3: seven events that took more than five hundred and twenty lives.

2941
02:28:18,680 --> 02:28:21,840
Speaker 3: In the same period, far left extremists committed forty two

2942
02:28:21,920 --> 02:28:26,200
Speaker 3: ideologically motivated attacks that took seventy eight lives. So this

2943
02:28:26,280 --> 02:28:30,240
Speaker 3: study has been scrubbed from the website to follow in

2944
02:28:30,280 --> 02:28:33,920
Speaker 3: line with Trump and the right's general talking points about

2945
02:28:33,920 --> 02:28:37,600
Speaker 3: this spike in left wing violence. I think in part,

2946
02:28:38,200 --> 02:28:43,560
Speaker 3: the right would view explicit white supremacist, neo Nazi linked

2947
02:28:43,640 --> 02:28:47,280
Speaker 3: violence as like separate from like, you know, conservative even

2948
02:28:47,320 --> 02:28:50,520
Speaker 3: some like far right violence. They don't understand the linkage

2949
02:28:50,800 --> 02:28:54,560
Speaker 3: from you know, explicit white supremacist mass shootings and you know,

2950
02:28:54,600 --> 02:28:56,880
Speaker 3: make America great again. Right, That's something that they would

2951
02:28:57,120 --> 02:28:59,800
Speaker 3: like reject as a legitimate coupling.

2952
02:29:00,080 --> 02:29:02,600
Speaker 6: In Congress today, cash Betel that claimed to have no

2953
02:29:02,640 --> 02:29:05,200
Speaker 6: idea who did, then Rufe was for example, correct and

2954
02:29:05,440 --> 02:29:07,160
Speaker 6: like what he was about a.

2955
02:29:07,080 --> 02:29:09,160
Speaker 3: Lot of them just aren't aware of this stuff. And

2956
02:29:09,200 --> 02:29:12,040
Speaker 3: it's not just this National Institute Justice study. These findings

2957
02:29:12,080 --> 02:29:16,199
Speaker 3: are incredibly consistent across multiple studies. The notably not left

2958
02:29:16,240 --> 02:29:21,360
Speaker 3: wing Cato Institute found very similar results in their analysis

2959
02:29:21,440 --> 02:29:24,880
Speaker 3: of six hundred and twenty politically motivated murders since nineteen

2960
02:29:24,920 --> 02:29:28,880
Speaker 3: seventy five, excluding nine to eleven, most political violence comes

2961
02:29:28,920 --> 02:29:31,440
Speaker 3: from the right. They counted three hundred and ninety one

2962
02:29:31,520 --> 02:29:34,959
Speaker 3: murders from the right and sixty five from the left.

2963
02:29:35,720 --> 02:29:37,640
Speaker 3: Can link that below to get a better look at

2964
02:29:37,680 --> 02:29:39,920
Speaker 3: their actual methodology and what they count as right wing

2965
02:29:40,000 --> 02:29:43,480
Speaker 3: what they count as left wing violence. Yeah, but these

2966
02:29:43,640 --> 02:29:46,520
Speaker 3: stats simply don't matter to the right. In a lot

2967
02:29:46,520 --> 02:29:50,040
Speaker 3: of cases, many average rightis will just reject these results altogether,

2968
02:29:50,080 --> 02:29:52,720
Speaker 3: say that the study is faked or had faulty methodology.

2969
02:29:53,000 --> 02:29:55,280
Speaker 3: But others might frame it as even if this data

2970
02:29:55,360 --> 02:29:59,520
Speaker 3: is true, it doesn't match the current trend of escalating

2971
02:29:59,680 --> 02:30:04,120
Speaker 3: left wing violence, specifically targeted left wing violence, not just

2972
02:30:04,360 --> 02:30:07,720
Speaker 3: mass shootings. Here's another clip from Fox's The Five.

2973
02:30:08,000 --> 02:30:11,160
Speaker 19: I understand why people are saying what about.

2974
02:30:10,840 --> 02:30:11,680
Speaker 3: This and what about this?

2975
02:30:11,879 --> 02:30:14,640
Speaker 19: Because if you have to face the underlying fact to this,

2976
02:30:15,400 --> 02:30:17,760
Speaker 19: your life is going to fall apart, because you're going

2977
02:30:17,840 --> 02:30:21,040
Speaker 19: to realize you're not the good guys. If you sat

2978
02:30:21,120 --> 02:30:24,280
Speaker 19: around and you defended the mutilation of children, you're not

2979
02:30:24,400 --> 02:30:27,560
Speaker 19: the good guys. If you sat six hundred seven hundred

2980
02:30:27,600 --> 02:30:31,880
Speaker 19: cases of harassment against Republicans and you said, but what

2981
02:30:31,920 --> 02:30:32,320
Speaker 19: about this?

2982
02:30:32,360 --> 02:30:32,800
Speaker 3: What about this?

2983
02:30:32,879 --> 02:30:35,200
Speaker 19: And then you see this murder after calling somebody a

2984
02:30:35,240 --> 02:30:38,960
Speaker 19: fashion you fascist, you realize maybe I'm not the good guy.

2985
02:30:39,160 --> 02:30:41,480
Speaker 19: That is a hell of a realization to deal with.

2986
02:30:41,680 --> 02:30:44,000
Speaker 3: So therefore, therefore you.

2987
02:30:44,080 --> 02:30:48,959
Speaker 19: Have to grasp at rationalizations. You don't have to do that, Jessica.

2988
02:30:49,400 --> 02:30:51,520
Speaker 3: They do. I don't believe you're part of that group.

2989
02:30:51,600 --> 02:30:53,000
Speaker 3: But why the hell do.

2990
02:30:53,000 --> 02:30:55,320
Speaker 19: You have to mimic an echo that crap?

2991
02:30:55,400 --> 02:30:59,200
Speaker 3: To us? He was a patsy. That guy was a patsy.

2992
02:30:59,360 --> 02:31:03,120
Speaker 19: He was under the hypnot expel of a direct to

2993
02:31:03,200 --> 02:31:07,200
Speaker 19: consumer nihilism, the trans cult. And you know that if

2994
02:31:07,240 --> 02:31:10,720
Speaker 19: you can decide that biology is false, you can agree

2995
02:31:11,040 --> 02:31:14,800
Speaker 19: that that murder is okay and that humanity is expendable.

2996
02:31:15,000 --> 02:31:20,560
Speaker 19: How you cannot see that alone and see that for

2997
02:31:20,680 --> 02:31:23,640
Speaker 19: what the evil it is without having to attach all

2998
02:31:23,680 --> 02:31:25,520
Speaker 19: of these other things is beyond me.

2999
02:31:26,360 --> 02:31:30,160
Speaker 6: His explicit claim that we should just like flag is

3000
02:31:30,200 --> 02:31:33,600
Speaker 6: that it's not. He's not necessarily talking about leftists as

3001
02:31:33,640 --> 02:31:36,800
Speaker 6: a whole. He's specifically talking about people who accept the

3002
02:31:36,840 --> 02:31:40,840
Speaker 6: trans people are people being and like that the existence

3003
02:31:40,879 --> 02:31:44,280
Speaker 6: of trans people leads to this nihilism. I guess, well, yeah.

3004
02:31:44,280 --> 02:31:46,560
Speaker 3: I mean they see the existent trans people as like

3005
02:31:46,760 --> 02:31:49,680
Speaker 3: a result of this nihilist culture, right, Yeah, Well, he.

3006
02:31:49,640 --> 02:31:51,840
Speaker 6: Seemed to put the cause all hour the other way though,

3007
02:31:51,959 --> 02:31:55,360
Speaker 6: in that he seemed to suggest that the nihilism comes

3008
02:31:55,400 --> 02:31:56,680
Speaker 6: from accepting trans people.

3009
02:31:56,840 --> 02:32:00,960
Speaker 3: I guess I don't fully agree that that's how he's

3010
02:32:00,959 --> 02:32:03,720
Speaker 3: saying it. I think they view it as it's both

3011
02:32:03,800 --> 02:32:06,480
Speaker 3: causal but also a symptom. I think they play it

3012
02:32:06,560 --> 02:32:10,480
Speaker 3: kind of both ways and showing how it's it's more

3013
02:32:10,560 --> 02:32:14,240
Speaker 3: so just like the result of this like breakdown in

3014
02:32:14,760 --> 02:32:18,600
Speaker 3: like a moral fabric, right, which is then breaking down

3015
02:32:19,800 --> 02:32:21,480
Speaker 3: like notion of reality, which is right, like, you know,

3016
02:32:21,720 --> 02:32:23,840
Speaker 3: transness is such an existential threat to the right wing

3017
02:32:24,600 --> 02:32:28,879
Speaker 3: worldviewing like many senses. But that's another topic. I do

3018
02:32:28,920 --> 02:32:33,560
Speaker 3: find it interesting how quick these people are just completely

3019
02:32:33,600 --> 02:32:36,959
Speaker 3: discount right wing mass shootings, right. And I think one

3020
02:32:37,040 --> 02:32:39,560
Speaker 3: key difference in talking about, you know, left wing violence

3021
02:32:39,680 --> 02:32:41,680
Speaker 3: is right ring violence, it seems, and almost all their

3022
02:32:41,680 --> 02:32:46,360
Speaker 3: examples here they're talking about assassinations targeted against specific people.

3023
02:32:47,520 --> 02:32:51,720
Speaker 3: Most right wing violence in these like statistics from like

3024
02:32:51,800 --> 02:32:55,439
Speaker 3: CATO and the National Institute of Justice, are are mass shootings,

3025
02:32:55,640 --> 02:32:58,120
Speaker 3: right that the number of individual people might not be

3026
02:32:58,200 --> 02:33:00,640
Speaker 3: that different, but the kill count or right wing and

3027
02:33:00,680 --> 02:33:04,400
Speaker 3: specifically like white supremacist attacks are so much higher. I

3028
02:33:04,440 --> 02:33:08,160
Speaker 3: don't think it's the actual numbers that matter to these people,

3029
02:33:08,480 --> 02:33:12,760
Speaker 3: it's their proximity to being the recipient of such violence

3030
02:33:12,800 --> 02:33:16,439
Speaker 3: that really freaks them out. For these commentators, the likelihood

3031
02:33:16,480 --> 02:33:19,360
Speaker 3: of them being in a black church when a white

3032
02:33:19,360 --> 02:33:23,440
Speaker 3: supremacist mass shooting happens is slimton'on right, Like, that's never

3033
02:33:23,440 --> 02:33:26,240
Speaker 3: gonna happen to these people, But being the victim of

3034
02:33:26,640 --> 02:33:30,800
Speaker 3: targeted violence against a high profile figure is to them,

3035
02:33:30,840 --> 02:33:33,800
Speaker 3: it seems like an increasing possibility, and that really freaks

3036
02:33:33,800 --> 02:33:37,600
Speaker 3: them out. Like obviously this type of attack directly affects

3037
02:33:37,640 --> 02:33:39,600
Speaker 3: their political class in a way that a far right

3038
02:33:39,600 --> 02:33:42,360
Speaker 3: mass shooting does not. I think that is influencing the

3039
02:33:42,360 --> 02:33:44,600
Speaker 3: way that they're talking about this, you know, quote unquote

3040
02:33:44,600 --> 02:33:47,520
Speaker 3: spike in left wing violence. We're gonna go on an

3041
02:33:47,520 --> 02:33:50,519
Speaker 3: ad break and then return to talk about Jed Vance's

3042
02:33:50,959 --> 02:33:54,520
Speaker 3: temporary takeover of the Charlie Kirk Show and how his

3043
02:33:54,600 --> 02:34:08,640
Speaker 3: rhetoric is affecting this general debate on political violence. Okay,

3044
02:34:08,680 --> 02:34:14,320
Speaker 3: we are back on Monday, September fifteenth, Vice President j.

3045
02:34:14,560 --> 02:34:18,039
Speaker 3: D Vance hosted The Charlie Kirk Show from his office

3046
02:34:18,120 --> 02:34:21,920
Speaker 3: in the White House Complex, the Vice President sitting down

3047
02:34:22,000 --> 02:34:25,680
Speaker 3: hosting a private citizens radio talk show. The show's intro

3048
02:34:25,879 --> 02:34:29,680
Speaker 3: has clips from Charlie's studio with signs that read big

3049
02:34:29,720 --> 02:34:34,080
Speaker 3: Gov socks warning does not play well with liberals. To

3050
02:34:34,160 --> 02:34:36,640
Speaker 3: introduce the show, Jade Vance says that, quote, we have

3051
02:34:36,760 --> 02:34:40,040
Speaker 3: to talk about this incredibly destructive moment of left wing

3052
02:34:40,080 --> 02:34:43,320
Speaker 3: extremism that has grown up over the last few years.

3053
02:34:43,320 --> 02:34:45,400
Speaker 3: We're going to talk about how to dismantle that and

3054
02:34:45,440 --> 02:34:49,360
Speaker 3: how to bring real unity unquote. His first guest was

3055
02:34:49,520 --> 02:34:52,360
Speaker 3: Stephen Miller. Ben said he wanted to talk to Miller

3056
02:34:52,400 --> 02:34:55,360
Speaker 3: about quote all the ways we're trying to figure out

3057
02:34:55,480 --> 02:34:57,680
Speaker 3: how to prevent this festering violence that you can see

3058
02:34:57,680 --> 02:35:01,160
Speaker 3: from the far left becoming even more and more mainstream.

3059
02:35:01,440 --> 02:35:03,119
Speaker 7: You have the crazies on the far left.

3060
02:35:03,160 --> 02:35:05,840
Speaker 13: You are saying, Oh, Stephen Miller and jd Vance, they're

3061
02:35:05,879 --> 02:35:08,520
Speaker 13: going to go after constitutionally protected speech, and we're going

3062
02:35:08,560 --> 02:35:13,720
Speaker 13: to go after the NGO network that fomens, facilitates, and

3063
02:35:13,840 --> 02:35:18,280
Speaker 13: engages in violence that's not okay. Violence is not okay

3064
02:35:18,320 --> 02:35:20,160
Speaker 13: in our system, and we want to make it less

3065
02:35:20,240 --> 02:35:21,240
Speaker 13: likely that that happens.

3066
02:35:21,560 --> 02:35:24,080
Speaker 7: Walk me through at a high level, like what you.

3067
02:35:24,040 --> 02:35:26,720
Speaker 13: And I have been working on, what the whole administration

3068
02:35:26,760 --> 02:35:28,959
Speaker 13: has been working on to try to make sure that

3069
02:35:29,040 --> 02:35:31,480
Speaker 13: we don't reward and promote this craziness.

3070
02:35:31,879 --> 02:35:34,040
Speaker 12: Yes, so it's an excellent question. I've said this before,

3071
02:35:35,200 --> 02:35:39,080
Speaker 12: but there's repeating. The last message that Charlie sent me

3072
02:35:40,280 --> 02:35:42,720
Speaker 12: was I think it was just the day before we

3073
02:35:42,800 --> 02:35:45,480
Speaker 12: lost him, which is that we need to have an

3074
02:35:45,560 --> 02:35:48,400
Speaker 12: organized strategy to go after the lefting organizations that are

3075
02:35:48,400 --> 02:35:53,520
Speaker 12: promoting violence in this country. And I will write those

3076
02:35:53,560 --> 02:35:55,199
Speaker 12: words onto my heart and I will carry them.

3077
02:35:55,080 --> 02:35:58,920
Speaker 3: Out the NGO network. Yep.

3078
02:35:59,320 --> 02:36:03,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, this has been a thing with them for a while.

3079
02:36:03,480 --> 02:36:06,400
Speaker 3: Yes, there was supposed to be a series of executive

3080
02:36:06,480 --> 02:36:10,840
Speaker 3: orders that were drafted earlier this year, specifically targeting Democrat

3081
02:36:10,879 --> 02:36:15,160
Speaker 3: funding platforms like Act Blue and environmental NGOs, that it

3082
02:36:15,200 --> 02:36:18,080
Speaker 3: was reported that Trump was about to sign, and then

3083
02:36:18,240 --> 02:36:22,320
Speaker 3: they kind of disappeared. This was around like April to May,

3084
02:36:22,920 --> 02:36:25,280
Speaker 3: and this has been something that they obviously have been

3085
02:36:25,320 --> 02:36:29,040
Speaker 3: wanting to do but for one reason or another haven't

3086
02:36:29,080 --> 02:36:33,360
Speaker 3: followed through on yet. But now are talking about this

3087
02:36:33,480 --> 02:36:38,240
Speaker 3: as an impending policy that the Trump administration is going

3088
02:36:38,320 --> 02:36:39,320
Speaker 3: to enact.

3089
02:36:39,560 --> 02:36:42,119
Speaker 6: I think some of their fascination with NGOs comes from

3090
02:36:42,120 --> 02:36:47,160
Speaker 6: the Trump administration's first term, when NGOs were very successful

3091
02:36:47,160 --> 02:36:50,760
Speaker 6: in bringing suits that delayed or prevented some of the

3092
02:36:50,800 --> 02:36:55,480
Speaker 6: policies that the mill of faction of the Trump administration

3093
02:36:56,040 --> 02:36:57,400
Speaker 6: would have liked to implement.

3094
02:36:57,840 --> 02:36:59,600
Speaker 18: Yeah, and then I think the other angle of this

3095
02:36:59,720 --> 02:37:02,240
Speaker 18: is just pueriety, Semitism, mango with that. Partly when they're

3096
02:37:02,280 --> 02:37:05,199
Speaker 18: saying NGOs, they mean NGOs, and partly when they're saying

3097
02:37:05,360 --> 02:37:06,520
Speaker 18: NGOs they mean Jews.

3098
02:37:07,480 --> 02:37:09,080
Speaker 3: And it's great.

3099
02:37:09,360 --> 02:37:14,879
Speaker 6: It's very often this specific focus is on he s

3100
02:37:15,000 --> 02:37:19,039
Speaker 6: right highest Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society. Who I mean, we

3101
02:37:19,080 --> 02:37:20,920
Speaker 6: see this in the Tree of Life shooting for instance

3102
02:37:20,920 --> 02:37:22,640
Speaker 6: in twenty eighteen. Right, this has been with us for

3103
02:37:22,680 --> 02:37:23,640
Speaker 6: some time on the right.

3104
02:37:24,400 --> 02:37:27,720
Speaker 3: I'm going to play another clip where they outline more

3105
02:37:27,800 --> 02:37:30,800
Speaker 3: strategies for clamping down on left wing violence.

3106
02:37:31,360 --> 02:37:33,880
Speaker 12: And we are going to channel all of the anger

3107
02:37:34,000 --> 02:37:39,240
Speaker 12: that we have over the organized campaign that led to

3108
02:37:39,280 --> 02:37:42,800
Speaker 12: this assassination to uproot and dismantle these terrorist networks.

3109
02:37:42,800 --> 02:37:44,320
Speaker 7: So let me explain a bit what that means. So

3110
02:37:46,080 --> 02:37:49,519
Speaker 7: thirty seconds, it'll be quick Stephen the organized.

3111
02:37:49,160 --> 02:37:53,360
Speaker 12: Docs and campaigns, the organized riots, the organized street violence,

3112
02:37:53,400 --> 02:37:58,359
Speaker 12: the organized campaigns of dehumanization, vilification, posting people's addresses, Combining

3113
02:37:58,360 --> 02:38:01,400
Speaker 12: that with messaging, this design trying to trigger inside violence,

3114
02:38:01,440 --> 02:38:04,640
Speaker 12: and the actual organized cells that carry out and facilitate

3115
02:38:04,680 --> 02:38:05,120
Speaker 12: the violence.

3116
02:38:05,120 --> 02:38:07,199
Speaker 3: It is a vast domestic terror movement.

3117
02:38:07,640 --> 02:38:09,720
Speaker 12: But with the Goddess my witness, we are going to

3118
02:38:09,840 --> 02:38:12,320
Speaker 12: use every resource we have at the Department of Justice,

3119
02:38:12,320 --> 02:38:16,359
Speaker 12: Homeland Security, and throughout this government to identify, disrupt, dismantle,

3120
02:38:16,400 --> 02:38:19,039
Speaker 12: and destroy these networks and make America safe again for

3121
02:38:19,040 --> 02:38:21,080
Speaker 12: the American people. It will happen, and we will do

3122
02:38:21,160 --> 02:38:22,040
Speaker 12: it in Charlie's name.

3123
02:38:22,480 --> 02:38:26,280
Speaker 3: So in their discussion of taking down this big doxing network,

3124
02:38:26,320 --> 02:38:32,879
Speaker 3: they also inadvertently and ironically describe the doxing campaign that

3125
02:38:32,920 --> 02:38:35,880
Speaker 3: the right is currently doing at a far larger scale

3126
02:38:36,240 --> 02:38:38,880
Speaker 3: and with way more institutional backing than any antif for

3127
02:38:39,040 --> 02:38:42,840
Speaker 3: left being, doxing has looked like targeting people making posts

3128
02:38:42,840 --> 02:38:46,400
Speaker 3: in support of Charlie Kirk's assassination or people making jokes

3129
02:38:46,440 --> 02:38:49,560
Speaker 3: about Charlie Kirk in the wake of his assassination, with

3130
02:38:49,680 --> 02:38:53,720
Speaker 3: a doxing website listing thousands of quote unquote Charlie's murderers,

3131
02:38:54,280 --> 02:38:57,160
Speaker 3: which are actually just people who have made posts about

3132
02:38:57,200 --> 02:39:00,120
Speaker 3: the death of Charlie Kirk. This is building off the

3133
02:39:00,200 --> 02:39:04,920
Speaker 3: Canary Mission strategy used against pro Palestinian activists, which has

3134
02:39:04,959 --> 02:39:08,440
Speaker 3: been adopted by the State Department for Immigration Enforcement and

3135
02:39:08,560 --> 02:39:13,640
Speaker 3: judging visa applications. This is the actual, like organized state backed,

3136
02:39:13,680 --> 02:39:18,160
Speaker 3: institutionally backed doxing campaign that exists right now in this country.

3137
02:39:18,360 --> 02:39:22,520
Speaker 3: It's not your average torch Antifa chapter doing this at scale. Now,

3138
02:39:22,520 --> 02:39:25,560
Speaker 3: it's the right with the mechanism of state encouraging them,

3139
02:39:25,720 --> 02:39:29,440
Speaker 3: backing them, and tons of money being funneled into an

3140
02:39:29,520 --> 02:39:34,920
Speaker 3: organized operation to actually impact state policy on who gets

3141
02:39:34,920 --> 02:39:38,600
Speaker 3: allowed in the country. On that note, Mark Rubio has

3142
02:39:38,640 --> 02:39:43,000
Speaker 3: talked about denying visa applications for people who celebrate the

3143
02:39:43,040 --> 02:39:44,360
Speaker 3: death of Charlie Kirk.

3144
02:39:44,560 --> 02:39:46,600
Speaker 20: We are not in the business of inviting people to

3145
02:39:46,680 --> 02:39:49,880
Speaker 20: visit our country who are going to be involved in

3146
02:39:50,000 --> 02:39:54,600
Speaker 20: negative and destructive behavior. Okay, so why should if I

3147
02:39:54,680 --> 02:39:57,040
Speaker 20: invite someone? If we invite someone to visit the United

3148
02:39:57,080 --> 02:39:59,959
Speaker 20: States of America as a student, as a tourist, has whatever,

3149
02:40:00,680 --> 02:40:03,080
Speaker 20: then they have a different The standard they should be

3150
02:40:03,080 --> 02:40:05,680
Speaker 20: held to is very high. We shouldn't be bringing people

3151
02:40:05,680 --> 02:40:07,720
Speaker 20: into this country. We should not be giving visas to

3152
02:40:07,760 --> 02:40:09,640
Speaker 20: people who are going to come to the United States

3153
02:40:09,680 --> 02:40:13,280
Speaker 20: and do things like celebrate the murder, the execution, the

3154
02:40:13,320 --> 02:40:16,240
Speaker 20: assassination of a political figure. We should not, And if

3155
02:40:16,240 --> 02:40:18,879
Speaker 20: they're already here, we should be revoking their visa.

3156
02:40:19,000 --> 02:40:21,080
Speaker 3: So now there's an organized campaign to not only try

3157
02:40:21,120 --> 02:40:23,600
Speaker 3: to deport and revoke visas or deny visas to people

3158
02:40:23,680 --> 02:40:26,840
Speaker 3: quote unquote celebrating the death of Charlie Kirk, but also

3159
02:40:26,959 --> 02:40:31,120
Speaker 3: get citizens here fired from their jobs and disrupt their life.

3160
02:40:31,280 --> 02:40:34,440
Speaker 3: Just two years ago, Elon Musk tweeted, quote, if you

3161
02:40:34,520 --> 02:40:38,000
Speaker 3: were unfairly treated by your employer due to posting or

3162
02:40:38,160 --> 02:40:41,840
Speaker 3: liking something on this platform Twitter, we will fund your

3163
02:40:41,920 --> 02:40:48,080
Speaker 3: legal bill, no limit. Please let us know unquote. What's

3164
02:40:48,200 --> 02:40:50,440
Speaker 3: different about the right's use of these tactics is the

3165
02:40:50,520 --> 02:40:53,360
Speaker 3: merger of like the right wing non government organization like

3166
02:40:53,400 --> 02:40:57,680
Speaker 3: Activist Apparatus with the ruling conservative government. Like the Dems

3167
02:40:57,680 --> 02:41:00,440
Speaker 3: in the left have never done this before. There's never

3168
02:41:00,440 --> 02:41:03,240
Speaker 3: been this coordination between the actual democratic establishment and like

3169
02:41:03,280 --> 02:41:08,120
Speaker 3: the far left. That's never happened, Like Palestine crackdowns started

3170
02:41:08,240 --> 02:41:12,640
Speaker 3: under Biden. Biden's DOJ prosecuted many twenty twenty George Floyd

3171
02:41:13,040 --> 02:41:16,920
Speaker 3: uprising cases. Federal assistance in the domestic terrorists investigation into

3172
02:41:16,920 --> 02:41:21,320
Speaker 3: Cop City started under Biden. As for quote unquote organized

3173
02:41:21,400 --> 02:41:24,920
Speaker 3: riots and street violence. Right wing street violence has been

3174
02:41:25,040 --> 02:41:29,160
Speaker 3: encouraged and coordinated with Trump and the Trump administration stand

3175
02:41:29,200 --> 02:41:31,920
Speaker 3: back and stand by to stop the steal protests leading

3176
02:41:31,959 --> 02:41:35,360
Speaker 3: to January sixth, which Trump played a large part in

3177
02:41:35,480 --> 02:41:38,800
Speaker 3: making happen, and then Trump pardoned all the participants.

3178
02:41:39,520 --> 02:41:41,959
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's it's pretty clear.

3179
02:41:42,200 --> 02:41:45,120
Speaker 3: The mayor of Minneapolis taking a knee is not on

3180
02:41:45,160 --> 02:41:49,200
Speaker 3: the same level as Trump pardoning all the January sixth

3181
02:41:49,320 --> 02:41:54,160
Speaker 3: quote unquote insurrectionists. At the end of Vance's two hour

3182
02:41:54,320 --> 02:41:58,400
Speaker 3: long episode, he reiterated on the topic of doxing and

3183
02:41:58,640 --> 02:42:04,080
Speaker 3: harassment campaigns and political violence. Here's another clip.

3184
02:42:04,360 --> 02:42:07,560
Speaker 13: I wrote a story in The Nation magazine about my

3185
02:42:07,680 --> 02:42:10,920
Speaker 13: dear friend Charlie Kirk. Now The Nation is in a

3186
02:42:11,120 --> 02:42:15,640
Speaker 13: fringe blog. It's a well funded, well respected magazine whose

3187
02:42:15,680 --> 02:42:19,199
Speaker 13: publishing history goes back to the American Civil War.

3188
02:42:20,320 --> 02:42:21,879
Speaker 7: George Soros's Open.

3189
02:42:21,640 --> 02:42:26,080
Speaker 13: Society Foundation funds this magazine, as does the Ford Foundation

3190
02:42:26,640 --> 02:42:30,360
Speaker 13: and many other wealthy titans of the American progressive movement.

3191
02:42:31,360 --> 02:42:33,679
Speaker 7: The writer accuses Charlie.

3192
02:42:33,280 --> 02:42:37,240
Speaker 13: Of saying, and I quote, black women do not have

3193
02:42:37,400 --> 02:42:41,200
Speaker 13: brain processing power to be taken seriously. But if you

3194
02:42:41,280 --> 02:42:44,520
Speaker 13: go and watch the clip, the very clip she links to,

3195
02:42:44,680 --> 02:42:48,000
Speaker 13: you realize he never said anything like that. He never

3196
02:42:48,200 --> 02:42:52,480
Speaker 13: uttered those words. He made an argument against affirmative action

3197
02:42:52,760 --> 02:42:57,280
Speaker 13: as a policy, He criticized a specific Supreme Court justice

3198
02:42:57,400 --> 02:43:01,000
Speaker 13: as an individual. He never said anything about black women

3199
02:43:01,040 --> 02:43:04,080
Speaker 13: as a group. He made an argument for judging people

3200
02:43:04,320 --> 02:43:08,199
Speaker 13: of all races and backgrounds by their own individual merits.

3201
02:43:09,360 --> 02:43:12,920
Speaker 13: The very evidence she provides this hack of a writer

3202
02:43:13,080 --> 02:43:16,080
Speaker 13: shows that she lied about a dead man, and yet

3203
02:43:16,760 --> 02:43:20,960
Speaker 13: she wrote it, an esteemed magazine published it, it made

3204
02:43:20,959 --> 02:43:25,320
Speaker 13: it through the editors, and of course liberal billionaires rewarded

3205
02:43:25,959 --> 02:43:27,040
Speaker 13: that attack.

3206
02:43:28,160 --> 02:43:29,119
Speaker 7: Now, of course, even.

3207
02:43:28,920 --> 02:43:31,520
Speaker 13: If Charlie had uttered those words, it wouldn't mean that

3208
02:43:31,560 --> 02:43:35,959
Speaker 13: he deserved his fate. But consider the level of propaganda

3209
02:43:36,040 --> 02:43:40,200
Speaker 13: at work. Charlie was gunned down in broad daylight, and

3210
02:43:40,280 --> 02:43:44,200
Speaker 13: well funded institutions of the left lied about what he

3211
02:43:44,440 --> 02:43:49,800
Speaker 13: said so as to justify his murder. This is soulless

3212
02:43:50,240 --> 02:43:53,600
Speaker 13: and evil. But I was struck not just by the

3213
02:43:53,640 --> 02:43:57,000
Speaker 13: dishonesty of this smear, but by the glee over a

3214
02:43:57,040 --> 02:44:02,840
Speaker 13: young husband's and young father's death quote, she says he

3215
02:44:03,240 --> 02:44:10,320
Speaker 13: was an unrepentant racist, transphobe, homophobe, and misogynist. The Nation wrote,

3216
02:44:10,640 --> 02:44:13,959
Speaker 13: who often wrapped his bigotry in Bible verses.

3217
02:44:14,320 --> 02:44:16,520
Speaker 3: There's a lot to break down there.

3218
02:44:16,720 --> 02:44:17,000
Speaker 6: Yeah.

3219
02:44:17,240 --> 02:44:20,840
Speaker 3: First of all, the president of the Nation, not the

3220
02:44:21,000 --> 02:44:24,640
Speaker 3: country the magazine. The Nation magazine has stated that they,

3221
02:44:24,640 --> 02:44:28,120
Speaker 3: in fact, do not receive money from George Soros or

3222
02:44:28,200 --> 02:44:33,080
Speaker 3: the Open Society Foundation. Vance's gesturing two left wing billionaires

3223
02:44:33,400 --> 02:44:38,800
Speaker 3: carries three parentheses around that term. Second of all, let's

3224
02:44:38,800 --> 02:44:43,360
Speaker 3: play the actual clip of Charlie talking about brain processing power.

3225
02:44:44,000 --> 02:44:48,120
Speaker 21: Joy Reid and Michelle Obama and Shila Jackson Lee and

3226
02:44:48,200 --> 02:44:51,360
Speaker 21: Catangi Brown Jackson were affirmative action picks. We would have

3227
02:44:51,360 --> 02:44:56,000
Speaker 21: been called theis. But now they're coming out and they're

3228
02:44:56,080 --> 02:44:58,760
Speaker 21: saying it for us. They're coming out and they're saying,

3229
02:44:59,520 --> 02:45:03,680
Speaker 21: I'm only here because affirmative action. Yeah, we know, you

3230
02:45:03,760 --> 02:45:06,560
Speaker 21: do not have the brain processing power to otherwise be

3231
02:45:06,800 --> 02:45:10,280
Speaker 21: taken really seriously. You had to go steal a white

3232
02:45:10,280 --> 02:45:13,279
Speaker 21: person slot to go be taken somewhat seriously.

3233
02:45:14,160 --> 02:45:15,920
Speaker 3: So he just happens to be talking about three black

3234
02:45:15,920 --> 02:45:17,840
Speaker 3: women and state that they do not have the brain

3235
02:45:17,879 --> 02:45:20,000
Speaker 3: processing power to do their jobs and that they stole

3236
02:45:20,040 --> 02:45:22,520
Speaker 3: a white man's spot. Yet in the position they are

3237
02:45:22,560 --> 02:45:26,520
Speaker 3: in now. An opinion writer for The Washington Post was

3238
02:45:26,640 --> 02:45:29,760
Speaker 3: fired this week for sharing this quote on Twitter, which

3239
02:45:29,840 --> 02:45:32,520
Speaker 3: replaced the names of the three women's talking about with

3240
02:45:32,720 --> 02:45:33,760
Speaker 3: just black women.

3241
02:45:34,680 --> 02:45:37,120
Speaker 6: Did she share it like in between quotation monks if

3242
02:45:37,160 --> 02:45:38,240
Speaker 6: it was a direct quotation.

3243
02:45:38,959 --> 02:45:41,160
Speaker 3: She did share it as if it was a direct quotation.

3244
02:45:41,840 --> 02:45:46,080
Speaker 18: Okay, I see, so I'm going to read this from

3245
02:45:46,120 --> 02:45:48,800
Speaker 18: the email that they sent this writer firing her. This

3246
02:45:48,879 --> 02:45:53,160
Speaker 18: writer is a black woman. Among other requirements, the company

3247
02:45:53,160 --> 02:45:56,879
Speaker 18: wide social media policy mandates that all employees social media

3248
02:45:56,879 --> 02:46:00,280
Speaker 18: postings be respectful and prohibits postings that disparage people on

3249
02:46:00,280 --> 02:46:04,040
Speaker 18: their race, gender, or other protected characteristics. The policy also

3250
02:46:04,080 --> 02:46:06,800
Speaker 18: reminds employees that everything they post is reflective on the

3251
02:46:06,800 --> 02:46:09,720
Speaker 18: company and should not affect the integrity of the post journalism.

3252
02:46:10,120 --> 02:46:12,560
Speaker 18: You're posting some blue sky which identify you as a

3253
02:46:12,600 --> 02:46:16,120
Speaker 18: post columnist about white men in response to the killing

3254
02:46:16,120 --> 02:46:19,680
Speaker 18: of Charlie Kirk do not comply with our policy. For example,

3255
02:46:19,720 --> 02:46:23,240
Speaker 18: you posted refusing to tear my clothes and smear ashes

3256
02:46:23,240 --> 02:46:25,480
Speaker 18: on my face and performative morning for a white man

3257
02:46:25,520 --> 02:46:28,320
Speaker 18: that espoused violence is not the same thing as violence.

3258
02:46:28,400 --> 02:46:31,520
Speaker 18: And part of what keeps America violent is the insistence

3259
02:46:31,720 --> 02:46:35,680
Speaker 18: that people perform care, empty goodness and absolution for white

3260
02:46:35,720 --> 02:46:39,680
Speaker 18: men who espoused hatred and violence. So this is explicitly

3261
02:46:39,800 --> 02:46:42,880
Speaker 18: a they think that reverse racism is real, and that's

3262
02:46:42,920 --> 02:46:47,039
Speaker 18: saying that and talking about white people as a class

3263
02:46:47,680 --> 02:46:50,760
Speaker 18: of people in the US that are responsible for things

3264
02:46:50,879 --> 02:46:54,360
Speaker 18: is in fact racism. Is that is the argument that

3265
02:46:54,440 --> 02:46:57,880
Speaker 18: the Post, the Washington Post is making in the email

3266
02:46:57,920 --> 02:47:01,600
Speaker 18: where they fire her, which is like that River's racism shit,

3267
02:47:01,920 --> 02:47:05,879
Speaker 18: even like three years ago was like a pretty fringe

3268
02:47:05,959 --> 02:47:08,240
Speaker 18: right wing like like that was a not it was

3269
02:47:08,280 --> 02:47:12,440
Speaker 18: originally like a Nazi thing, right And this is now

3270
02:47:12,520 --> 02:47:15,960
Speaker 18: being used by like the Washington Post to fire their

3271
02:47:16,000 --> 02:47:21,200
Speaker 18: own writers for writing really incredibly reasonable things about Charlie Kirk.

3272
02:47:21,640 --> 02:47:26,119
Speaker 3: To close Charlie Kirk's episode and to close our episode,

3273
02:47:26,800 --> 02:47:30,320
Speaker 3: jd Vance talked about before we can have any national unity,

3274
02:47:30,440 --> 02:47:34,879
Speaker 3: we must, like Charlie, tell the truth. Unity.

3275
02:47:35,879 --> 02:47:40,800
Speaker 13: Real unity can be found only after climbing the mountain

3276
02:47:40,879 --> 02:47:44,520
Speaker 13: of truth. And there are difficult truths we must confront

3277
02:47:44,680 --> 02:47:49,600
Speaker 13: in our country. One truth is that twenty four percent

3278
02:47:50,080 --> 02:47:54,680
Speaker 13: of self described quote very liberals believe it is acceptable

3279
02:47:55,000 --> 02:47:57,840
Speaker 13: to be happy about the death of a political opponent,

3280
02:47:58,320 --> 02:48:02,480
Speaker 13: while only three percent of self described very conservatives agree.

3281
02:48:02,520 --> 02:48:07,160
Speaker 13: Three percent is too many, of course. Another truth is

3282
02:48:07,200 --> 02:48:11,320
Speaker 13: that twenty six percent of young liberals believe political violence

3283
02:48:11,440 --> 02:48:15,840
Speaker 13: is sometimes justified, and only seven percent of young conservatives

3284
02:48:15,840 --> 02:48:20,039
Speaker 13: say the same. Again, too high a number in a

3285
02:48:20,080 --> 02:48:22,080
Speaker 13: country of three hundred and thirty million people. You can,

3286
02:48:22,120 --> 02:48:25,440
Speaker 13: of course find one person of a given political persuasion

3287
02:48:25,640 --> 02:48:29,279
Speaker 13: justifying this or that, or almost anything, but the data

3288
02:48:30,280 --> 02:48:33,879
Speaker 13: is clear people on the left are much likelier to

3289
02:48:33,959 --> 02:48:36,760
Speaker 13: defend and celebrate political violence.

3290
02:48:36,840 --> 02:48:39,520
Speaker 7: This is not a both sides problem.

3291
02:48:39,560 --> 02:48:42,480
Speaker 13: If both sides have a problem, one side has a

3292
02:48:42,560 --> 02:48:46,359
Speaker 13: much bigger and malignant problem, and that is the truth.

3293
02:48:46,080 --> 02:48:47,480
Speaker 7: We must be told.

3294
02:48:48,800 --> 02:48:52,640
Speaker 3: So. These stats are from a recent you gov survey,

3295
02:48:52,840 --> 02:48:55,360
Speaker 3: where twenty four percent of very liberals to say it's

3296
02:48:55,360 --> 02:48:56,800
Speaker 3: okay to be happy with the murder of a political

3297
02:48:56,800 --> 02:48:59,600
Speaker 3: opponent and twenty six percent of young liberals to say

3298
02:48:59,640 --> 02:49:02,440
Speaker 3: some times political bolence is justified for two seven percent

3299
02:49:02,520 --> 02:49:06,800
Speaker 3: of young conservatives. This study also found that Democrats and

3300
02:49:06,840 --> 02:49:10,840
Speaker 3: Republicans are more likely to say that political violence is

3301
02:49:10,879 --> 02:49:15,320
Speaker 3: a big problem after attacks on members of their own party.

3302
02:49:16,040 --> 02:49:18,520
Speaker 3: Of course, this polling is going to be heavily influenced

3303
02:49:18,560 --> 02:49:21,200
Speaker 3: by whatever recent events just happened. That's going to change

3304
02:49:21,200 --> 02:49:26,280
Speaker 3: people's stated opinion on these questions. After the assassination of

3305
02:49:26,360 --> 02:49:29,160
Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk, sixty seven percent of Republicans said that political

3306
02:49:29,200 --> 02:49:32,200
Speaker 3: violence is a very big problem. Fifty eight percent of

3307
02:49:32,200 --> 02:49:35,760
Speaker 3: Democrats agreed. After the assassination of Melissa Hartman, fifty six

3308
02:49:35,800 --> 02:49:39,000
Speaker 3: percent of Democrats said it's a very big problem, only

3309
02:49:39,040 --> 02:49:43,279
Speaker 3: forty four percent of Republicans agreed. After the assassination attempt

3310
02:49:43,320 --> 02:49:46,320
Speaker 3: on Jos Shapiro, forty four percent of Democrats, thirty seven

3311
02:49:46,360 --> 02:49:47,760
Speaker 3: percent of Republicans.

3312
02:49:47,800 --> 02:49:50,920
Speaker 6: Wait, just Shapiro wasn't assassinated, right, they tried to ban

3313
02:49:51,000 --> 02:49:51,360
Speaker 6: his houseing.

3314
02:49:51,440 --> 02:49:53,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're counting that an attempted assassination.

3315
02:49:53,440 --> 02:49:53,840
Speaker 6: Oh, okay.

3316
02:49:53,959 --> 02:49:54,119
Speaker 4: See.

3317
02:49:54,240 --> 02:49:59,160
Speaker 3: After the attended assassination on Donald Trump, fifty one percent

3318
02:49:59,240 --> 02:50:01,680
Speaker 3: of Republicans said political balance is a very big problem

3319
02:50:02,120 --> 02:50:05,920
Speaker 3: forty six percent of democrats, And after the attacks on

3320
02:50:06,040 --> 02:50:09,160
Speaker 3: Paul Pelosi, fifty three percent of Democrats said political balance

3321
02:50:09,160 --> 02:50:12,080
Speaker 3: is a very big problem compared to thirty one percent

3322
02:50:12,280 --> 02:50:16,680
Speaker 3: of Republicans. These stats are very fluid and absolutely changed

3323
02:50:16,720 --> 02:50:19,879
Speaker 3: depending on whatever current events were current at the time,

3324
02:50:20,120 --> 02:50:22,840
Speaker 3: whatever just happened. We're going to talk about this more

3325
02:50:22,840 --> 02:50:25,240
Speaker 3: in a bit, but I think the way that we

3326
02:50:25,360 --> 02:50:30,120
Speaker 3: frame cheering on political violence also massively varies based on

3327
02:50:30,120 --> 02:50:33,879
Speaker 3: what you count as political violence. Is a police killing

3328
02:50:34,040 --> 02:50:37,320
Speaker 3: count as political violence? If so, that's going to majorly

3329
02:50:37,400 --> 02:50:41,640
Speaker 3: affect the way we think about this question. Here's Vance

3330
02:50:41,680 --> 02:50:46,560
Speaker 3: again talking about Trump's assassination and the pyramid that supports

3331
02:50:46,680 --> 02:50:47,680
Speaker 3: political violence.

3332
02:50:48,000 --> 02:50:51,199
Speaker 13: Now, any political movement, violent or not violent.

3333
02:50:50,959 --> 02:50:52,080
Speaker 7: Is a collection of forces.

3334
02:50:52,080 --> 02:50:56,439
Speaker 13: It's like a pyramid that stacks on top one support

3335
02:50:56,600 --> 02:50:59,879
Speaker 13: on top of the other. That Peermid's got a foundation

3336
02:51:00,240 --> 02:51:04,439
Speaker 13: of donors, of activists, of journalists, now social media influencers,

3337
02:51:04,480 --> 02:51:07,800
Speaker 13: and of course of politicians. Not every member of that

3338
02:51:07,879 --> 02:51:10,960
Speaker 13: pyramid would commit a murder. In fact, over ninety nine

3339
02:51:10,959 --> 02:51:14,359
Speaker 13: percent I'm sure would not. But by celebrating that murder,

3340
02:51:14,800 --> 02:51:19,400
Speaker 13: apologizing for it, and emphasizing not Charlie's innocence, but the

3341
02:51:19,400 --> 02:51:22,840
Speaker 13: fact that he said things some didn't like, even to

3342
02:51:22,840 --> 02:51:25,520
Speaker 13: the point of lying about what he actually said, many

3343
02:51:25,640 --> 02:51:29,039
Speaker 13: of these people are creating an environment where things like

3344
02:51:29,120 --> 02:51:31,240
Speaker 13: this are inevitably going to happen.

3345
02:51:31,640 --> 02:51:34,120
Speaker 3: Benson goes on to talk about how people yelled at

3346
02:51:34,200 --> 02:51:39,160
Speaker 3: him and his family when he visited Disneyland, and discusses

3347
02:51:39,560 --> 02:51:42,160
Speaker 3: how after Charlie's death, one of his friends and a

3348
02:51:42,200 --> 02:51:47,039
Speaker 3: senior White House staffer had left leaning operatives in his neighborhood,

3349
02:51:47,080 --> 02:51:49,360
Speaker 3: passing out leaflets telling people what he looked like and

3350
02:51:49,360 --> 02:51:52,560
Speaker 3: where he'd lived and quote, encouraging neighbors to harass him

3351
02:51:52,640 --> 02:51:55,360
Speaker 3: or God forbid to do worse. While he was mourning

3352
02:51:55,400 --> 02:51:57,440
Speaker 3: his dead friend, he and his wife had to worry

3353
02:51:57,480 --> 02:52:00,600
Speaker 3: about the political terrorists drawing a big target on his home.

3354
02:52:00,920 --> 02:52:04,320
Speaker 3: He shares with his own children. Are these people violent?

3355
02:52:04,440 --> 02:52:07,120
Speaker 3: I hope not? But are they guilty of encouraging violence?

3356
02:52:07,200 --> 02:52:09,560
Speaker 3: You damn well better believe it. We can thank God

3357
02:52:09,600 --> 02:52:12,360
Speaker 3: that most Democrats don't share these attitudes, and I do.

3358
02:52:12,720 --> 02:52:16,120
Speaker 3: While acknowledging that something has gone very wrong with a

3359
02:52:16,200 --> 02:52:20,279
Speaker 3: lunatic fringe, a minority, but a growing and powerful minority

3360
02:52:20,360 --> 02:52:24,600
Speaker 3: on the far left, Vansk goes on to state that

3361
02:52:24,680 --> 02:52:28,279
Speaker 3: he seeks no unity with the far left.

3362
02:52:29,040 --> 02:52:32,560
Speaker 13: There is no unity with people who scream at children

3363
02:52:32,640 --> 02:52:34,080
Speaker 13: over their parents' politics.

3364
02:52:34,320 --> 02:52:35,560
Speaker 7: There is no unity with.

3365
02:52:35,600 --> 02:52:38,680
Speaker 13: Someone who lies about what Charlie Kirk said in order

3366
02:52:38,720 --> 02:52:39,960
Speaker 13: to excuse his murder.

3367
02:52:40,360 --> 02:52:40,879
Speaker 7: There is no.

3368
02:52:41,000 --> 02:52:44,720
Speaker 13: Unity with someone who harasses an innocent family the day

3369
02:52:44,840 --> 02:52:47,840
Speaker 13: after the father of that family lost a dear friend.

3370
02:52:48,080 --> 02:52:51,480
Speaker 13: There is no unity with the people who celebrate Charlie

3371
02:52:51,520 --> 02:52:52,640
Speaker 13: Kirk's assassination.

3372
02:52:53,200 --> 02:52:56,199
Speaker 7: And there is no unity with the people who fund.

3373
02:52:56,040 --> 02:52:59,760
Speaker 13: These articles, who pay the salaries of these terrorist sympathizers,

3374
02:53:00,040 --> 02:53:03,720
Speaker 13: who argue that Charlie Kirk, a loving husband and father,

3375
02:53:04,280 --> 02:53:08,360
Speaker 13: deserved a shot to the neck because he spoke words

3376
02:53:08,840 --> 02:53:10,800
Speaker 13: with which they disagree.

3377
02:53:11,000 --> 02:53:13,720
Speaker 7: Did you know that the George Soros.

3378
02:53:13,360 --> 02:53:16,959
Speaker 13: Open Society Foundation and the Ford Foundation, the groups who

3379
02:53:17,000 --> 02:53:21,080
Speaker 13: funded that disgusting article justifying Charlie's death, Do you know

3380
02:53:21,080 --> 02:53:25,359
Speaker 13: they benefit from generous tax treatment. They are literally subsidized

3381
02:53:25,400 --> 02:53:29,039
Speaker 13: by you and me, the American taxpayer. And how do

3382
02:53:29,080 --> 02:53:32,520
Speaker 13: they reward us by setting fire to the house built

3383
02:53:32,640 --> 02:53:35,480
Speaker 13: by the American family over two hundred and fifty years.

3384
02:53:35,840 --> 02:53:41,680
Speaker 3: On September thirteenth, Fox and News Morning host Brian Kilmeade

3385
02:53:42,120 --> 02:53:48,520
Speaker 3: endorsed youthanizing homeless people with quote involuntary lethal injection or something,

3386
02:53:49,040 --> 02:53:50,599
Speaker 3: just kill them.

3387
02:53:50,200 --> 02:53:53,400
Speaker 5: Billions of dollars some mental health and the homeless population.

3388
02:53:53,680 --> 02:53:55,920
Speaker 3: A lot of them don't want to take the programs.

3389
02:53:56,040 --> 02:53:57,680
Speaker 3: A lot of them don't want to get the help

3390
02:53:57,680 --> 02:54:00,000
Speaker 3: that is necessary. You can't give him a choice.

3391
02:54:00,400 --> 02:54:02,280
Speaker 2: Either you take the resources that we're going to.

3392
02:54:02,320 --> 02:54:05,760
Speaker 3: Give you and or you decide that you got to

3393
02:54:05,760 --> 02:54:07,400
Speaker 3: be locked up in jail. That's the way it has

3394
02:54:07,400 --> 02:54:10,879
Speaker 3: to be now, or involuntary lethal injection or something. I

3395
02:54:10,920 --> 02:54:12,400
Speaker 3: just kill them, Kim Brian. Why did it have to

3396
02:54:12,400 --> 02:54:13,280
Speaker 3: get to this point right?

3397
02:54:13,480 --> 02:54:15,040
Speaker 11: I would say this, we're not voting for the right

3398
02:54:15,080 --> 02:54:16,480
Speaker 11: people in North Carolina.

3399
02:54:16,200 --> 02:54:20,200
Speaker 3: Wake up. Just kill them. Geez, the Fox News host

3400
02:54:20,560 --> 02:54:24,640
Speaker 3: advocating the killing of homeless people. And he didn't get

3401
02:54:24,680 --> 02:54:27,800
Speaker 3: fired from this. He apologized a few days later, but

3402
02:54:27,840 --> 02:54:31,280
Speaker 3: he's not getting fired from his job for this, openly

3403
02:54:31,400 --> 02:54:36,000
Speaker 3: advocating the death of homeless people. Yeah, murder.

3404
02:54:36,560 --> 02:54:38,400
Speaker 18: And I think it's worth noting whenever we're having a

3405
02:54:38,440 --> 02:54:42,080
Speaker 18: discussion about political violence that two days after Charlie Kirk.

3406
02:54:42,360 --> 02:54:46,680
Speaker 3: Was shot, Ice just killed a guy.

3407
02:54:46,560 --> 02:54:48,959
Speaker 18: In Chicago who was driving away from their attempt to

3408
02:54:48,959 --> 02:54:52,760
Speaker 18: detain him. He was driving away pretty slowly, and there's

3409
02:54:52,920 --> 02:54:55,440
Speaker 18: video of it. Now, they pulled out their guns and

3410
02:54:55,480 --> 02:54:59,320
Speaker 18: they killed him. And you know, all of these people

3411
02:55:00,040 --> 02:55:04,000
Speaker 18: who are the people who ordered ice into this city, right,

3412
02:55:04,080 --> 02:55:08,320
Speaker 18: who are directly responsible for the deaths of this man

3413
02:55:08,360 --> 02:55:11,720
Speaker 18: who was also a single father. Actually well, no, Kirk

3414
02:55:11,840 --> 02:55:15,760
Speaker 18: was not a single father, but this guy was and

3415
02:55:15,959 --> 02:55:17,760
Speaker 18: was just murdered in cold blood by Ice.

3416
02:55:18,360 --> 02:55:18,560
Speaker 3: Right.

3417
02:55:19,240 --> 02:55:22,120
Speaker 18: This is not considered political violence by sort of either

3418
02:55:22,160 --> 02:55:24,760
Speaker 18: liberals or conservatives, right, because they don't think the political

3419
02:55:24,800 --> 02:55:28,000
Speaker 18: violence can be done by the state. And this is

3420
02:55:28,040 --> 02:55:30,039
Speaker 18: also part of how you get to the situation now

3421
02:55:30,080 --> 02:55:32,000
Speaker 18: where you can be like, well, the states should just

3422
02:55:32,080 --> 02:55:36,040
Speaker 18: murder homeless people and that's not considered political violence because

3423
02:55:36,040 --> 02:55:37,720
Speaker 18: it's the state doing it, and because they don't think

3424
02:55:37,760 --> 02:55:38,760
Speaker 18: homeless people are people.

3425
02:55:39,360 --> 02:55:42,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean to broaden that statement slightly or take

3426
02:55:42,720 --> 02:55:44,320
Speaker 6: a different angle on it, right, Like there is a

3427
02:55:44,360 --> 02:55:47,480
Speaker 6: complete bipartisan consensus that we should kill hundreds of people

3428
02:55:47,480 --> 02:55:50,920
Speaker 6: a year acrossing our southern border because that supposedly serves

3429
02:55:50,959 --> 02:55:53,320
Speaker 6: as a deterrent from other people coming, which it doesn't,

3430
02:55:53,360 --> 02:55:56,199
Speaker 6: But that is not seen as political violence.

3431
02:55:56,520 --> 02:55:59,200
Speaker 18: Now, they just murdered three more people on a boat

3432
02:55:59,360 --> 02:56:01,600
Speaker 18: but leaving Venezuela a few days ago.

3433
02:56:02,120 --> 02:56:06,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, as Evan's ended the Charlie Kirk Show episode.

3434
02:56:07,400 --> 02:56:11,920
Speaker 3: He advocated that listeners find and call the employers of

3435
02:56:12,080 --> 02:56:15,760
Speaker 3: people celebrating Charlie Kirk's death to join a TEPA USA

3436
02:56:15,840 --> 02:56:18,279
Speaker 3: chapter or to run for office.

3437
02:56:18,400 --> 02:56:21,440
Speaker 13: But I promise you that we will explore every option

3438
02:56:21,640 --> 02:56:25,440
Speaker 13: to bring real unity to our country and stop those

3439
02:56:25,440 --> 02:56:28,240
Speaker 13: who would kill their fellow Americans because.

3440
02:56:27,920 --> 02:56:31,520
Speaker 7: They don't like what they say. But you have a

3441
02:56:31,600 --> 02:56:33,640
Speaker 7: role too. Civil society, Charlie.

3442
02:56:33,360 --> 02:56:37,520
Speaker 13: Understood this well, is not just something that flows from

3443
02:56:37,840 --> 02:56:43,560
Speaker 13: the government. It flows from each and every one of us.

3444
02:56:43,640 --> 02:56:47,320
Speaker 13: It flows from all of us. So when you see

3445
02:56:47,360 --> 02:56:51,080
Speaker 13: someone celebrating Charlie's murder, call them out in hell, call

3446
02:56:51,120 --> 02:56:54,280
Speaker 13: their employer. We don't believe in political violence, but we

3447
02:56:54,360 --> 02:56:57,680
Speaker 13: do believe in civility, and there is no civility in

3448
02:56:57,720 --> 02:56:59,959
Speaker 13: the celebration of political assassination.

3449
02:57:01,040 --> 02:57:03,480
Speaker 6: The idea of the fusion of the state with civil

3450
02:57:03,560 --> 02:57:07,080
Speaker 6: society is really notable there, like, that's not what civil

3451
02:57:07,120 --> 02:57:12,359
Speaker 6: society is, right. That is a concept that is inherently totalitarian,

3452
02:57:12,560 --> 02:57:15,600
Speaker 6: that civil society should flow downstream from the state and

3453
02:57:15,640 --> 02:57:16,160
Speaker 6: the movement.

3454
02:57:16,760 --> 02:57:19,560
Speaker 3: It's this fusion between the two that the right has

3455
02:57:19,800 --> 02:57:23,039
Speaker 3: deployed so successfully. Yeah, which has increased their ability to

3456
02:57:23,080 --> 02:57:23,920
Speaker 3: actually like rule.

3457
02:57:24,080 --> 02:57:26,760
Speaker 6: Yeah. I mean that's that's what fatism does, right, like that,

3458
02:57:26,760 --> 02:57:30,600
Speaker 6: that's yeah, Franco, that's Hitler, Like that is textbook.

3459
02:57:30,720 --> 02:57:32,400
Speaker 3: That's like the point of the brown Shirts.

3460
02:57:32,480 --> 02:57:34,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, or like the Women's movement in Spain, right to

3461
02:57:34,680 --> 02:57:37,280
Speaker 6: give a more civil society example, they're not like, they're

3462
02:57:37,320 --> 02:57:39,320
Speaker 6: not like a state police agency. There are a civil

3463
02:57:39,400 --> 02:57:44,480
Speaker 6: society organization explicitly run by the state for its agenda.

3464
02:57:45,120 --> 02:57:48,000
Speaker 3: So to return to the years of lead Paint idea

3465
02:57:48,040 --> 02:57:52,599
Speaker 3: that opened this episode, what I'm observing right now across

3466
02:57:52,800 --> 02:57:57,640
Speaker 3: the political ocean is this flattening of tactics. As I

3467
02:57:57,680 --> 02:57:59,680
Speaker 3: discussed on the show before in the Blue One episodes,

3468
02:57:59,840 --> 02:58:04,600
Speaker 3: the right trojan horst political conspiracism into acceptable political discourse,

3469
02:58:04,879 --> 02:58:07,560
Speaker 3: which the left is now embracing liberals and the left.

3470
02:58:07,600 --> 02:58:10,080
Speaker 3: And you can see this with people's reactions to the

3471
02:58:10,160 --> 02:58:14,440
Speaker 3: Charter assassination and theories about the alleged shooter. So the

3472
02:58:14,520 --> 02:58:18,480
Speaker 3: left is embracing conspiracy theories. Meanwhile the right is adopting

3473
02:58:18,520 --> 02:58:24,360
Speaker 3: and accelerating political cancel culture style docsing. The key difference

3474
02:58:24,400 --> 02:58:26,920
Speaker 3: here is on the right, these actions have state backing

3475
02:58:26,959 --> 02:58:32,119
Speaker 3: and coordination or serve to maintain state power. For example,

3476
02:58:32,440 --> 02:58:35,039
Speaker 3: there's types of political violence that get cheered on by

3477
02:58:35,040 --> 02:58:38,520
Speaker 3: the right, such as deportations and the cheering on of

3478
02:58:38,640 --> 02:58:43,520
Speaker 3: police after officer involved shootings. Back the blue keeps alignment

3479
02:58:43,600 --> 02:58:46,960
Speaker 3: with state power. Same thing with cheering on or encouraging

3480
02:58:47,320 --> 02:58:52,360
Speaker 3: violence against BLM protesters that supports the state structure and

3481
02:58:52,480 --> 02:58:56,160
Speaker 3: advocating or celebrating the deaths of protesters gets viewed very

3482
02:58:56,200 --> 02:58:59,360
Speaker 3: differently than the targeted assassinations that have happened in the

3483
02:58:59,400 --> 02:59:02,880
Speaker 3: past year here and now the past few days, Trump

3484
02:59:03,080 --> 02:59:08,360
Speaker 3: has discussed once again designating Antifa and other groups as

3485
02:59:08,480 --> 02:59:13,920
Speaker 3: domestic terror organizations and bringing RICO charges against Code Pink

3486
02:59:14,000 --> 02:59:16,720
Speaker 3: activists who screamed at him at a restaurant in DC

3487
02:59:16,920 --> 02:59:17,760
Speaker 3: a few weeks ago.

3488
02:59:18,480 --> 02:59:23,000
Speaker 9: Do you plan on designating Antifa finally a domestic terror organization?

3489
02:59:24,840 --> 02:59:27,600
Speaker 11: Well, it's something I would do, yeah, if I have

3490
02:59:27,680 --> 02:59:29,160
Speaker 11: support from the people back here.

3491
02:59:29,200 --> 02:59:30,760
Speaker 3: I think would start with PAM.

3492
02:59:30,520 --> 02:59:33,360
Speaker 11: I think, but I would if you give me, I

3493
02:59:33,400 --> 02:59:34,640
Speaker 11: would do that one hundred percent.

3494
02:59:34,720 --> 02:59:35,959
Speaker 3: And others also, by.

3495
02:59:35,800 --> 02:59:38,720
Speaker 11: The way, But Antifa is terrible.

3496
02:59:39,200 --> 02:59:42,280
Speaker 3: There are other groups, Yeah, there are other groups.

3497
02:59:42,320 --> 02:59:44,360
Speaker 5: We have some pretty radical groups and they got away

3498
02:59:44,400 --> 02:59:45,040
Speaker 5: with murder.

3499
02:59:45,440 --> 02:59:47,640
Speaker 7: And also I've been speaking to.

3500
02:59:47,560 --> 02:59:51,000
Speaker 11: The Attorney General about bringing RICO against some of the

3501
02:59:51,000 --> 02:59:53,080
Speaker 11: people that you've been reading about that have been putting

3502
02:59:53,120 --> 02:59:55,680
Speaker 11: up millions and millions of dollars for agitation.

3503
02:59:56,440 --> 02:59:58,520
Speaker 3: These aren't protests, these are crimes.

3504
02:59:58,520 --> 03:00:01,480
Speaker 11: What they're doing where they're throwing brit I said cars

3505
03:00:01,560 --> 03:00:04,039
Speaker 11: of the of ice and mortar patrol.

3506
03:00:04,080 --> 03:00:07,480
Speaker 18: And I want to close by. You know, we've seen

3507
03:00:07,480 --> 03:00:09,480
Speaker 18: the sort of repercautions that people have had, not even

3508
03:00:09,520 --> 03:00:13,120
Speaker 18: for like celebrating Charlie Kirk's death, but for like being like, wait,

3509
03:00:13,160 --> 03:00:16,080
Speaker 18: this guy fucking sucks, and this whole you know, this

3510
03:00:16,120 --> 03:00:19,440
Speaker 18: whole argument about civility. And I mean that, I mean

3511
03:00:19,480 --> 03:00:21,600
Speaker 18: the Vice President of the United States is making right.

3512
03:00:21,959 --> 03:00:25,760
Speaker 18: I want to read this quote from Matt Walsh as

3513
03:00:25,760 --> 03:00:30,039
Speaker 18: we're recording. This is this is from Tuesday, September sixteenth.

3514
03:00:30,080 --> 03:00:33,760
Speaker 18: This was left wing LGBT terrorism. There was never much doubt.

3515
03:00:34,360 --> 03:00:36,560
Speaker 18: Now there is none at all. All left wing terror

3516
03:00:36,600 --> 03:00:39,119
Speaker 18: networks must be crushed, All of the terrorists and their

3517
03:00:39,120 --> 03:00:42,160
Speaker 18: helpers and funders must be arrested, prosecuted, and put to death.

3518
03:00:43,000 --> 03:00:45,560
Speaker 18: So and there have been absolutely zero consequences for again

3519
03:00:45,600 --> 03:00:49,560
Speaker 18: Matt Walsh calling for this whole network of people that

3520
03:00:49,600 --> 03:00:54,760
Speaker 18: he imagines exists being executed. That's their endgame, right, It

3521
03:00:54,800 --> 03:00:56,800
Speaker 18: is to destroy the concept of free speech in order

3522
03:00:56,840 --> 03:00:59,560
Speaker 18: to preserve quote unquote free speech right, in order to

3523
03:00:59,560 --> 03:01:02,600
Speaker 18: sort of unquote and political violence. They want to carry out,

3524
03:01:02,959 --> 03:01:06,600
Speaker 18: you know, mass political killings of their opponents.

3525
03:01:05,959 --> 03:01:09,440
Speaker 3: Coordinated at a state level with state resources. Yeah. Yeah,

3526
03:01:09,480 --> 03:01:12,360
Speaker 3: And the state involvement makes it okay, That makes it

3527
03:01:12,560 --> 03:01:17,600
Speaker 3: a moral action, not the actions of some like unhinged terrorist. Yeah.

3528
03:01:17,680 --> 03:01:19,879
Speaker 18: And this is a really significant problem for the way

3529
03:01:19,879 --> 03:01:22,600
Speaker 18: that we think about political violence because this is something

3530
03:01:22,640 --> 03:01:25,400
Speaker 18: that's true for both liberals and conservatives that they think

3531
03:01:25,440 --> 03:01:27,760
Speaker 18: that the state is the appropriate arbiter for this kind

3532
03:01:27,760 --> 03:01:31,039
Speaker 18: of political violence, which is how Obama can do a

3533
03:01:31,120 --> 03:01:33,760
Speaker 18: drone strike on a sixteen year old American citizen and

3534
03:01:33,879 --> 03:01:37,760
Speaker 18: kill him in cold blood because Obama had political disagreements

3535
03:01:37,800 --> 03:01:41,840
Speaker 18: with his father, right, and how this is treated as

3536
03:01:41,840 --> 03:01:46,080
Speaker 18: something that's fine by a huge portion of liberals. And

3537
03:01:46,120 --> 03:01:47,959
Speaker 18: this is one of the things that's going to allow

3538
03:01:48,440 --> 03:01:50,600
Speaker 18: if these people are successful, and I don't know that

3539
03:01:50,640 --> 03:01:54,280
Speaker 18: they will be, but if they can be, that's going

3540
03:01:54,360 --> 03:01:54,680
Speaker 18: to be.

3541
03:01:54,720 --> 03:01:59,800
Speaker 3: Why, Well, that is how we at the show understand

3542
03:01:59,840 --> 03:02:03,279
Speaker 3: the years of lead Paint, or the current twenty twenty

3543
03:02:03,320 --> 03:02:09,560
Speaker 3: five September era of the years of lead Paint. There's

3544
03:02:09,760 --> 03:02:15,960
Speaker 3: phantoms everywhere, there's conspiracies everywhere and nowhere, and the specter

3545
03:02:16,080 --> 03:02:38,840
Speaker 3: of political violence is around every corner. This is it

3546
03:02:38,879 --> 03:02:42,640
Speaker 3: could happen here. Executive Disorder, our weekly newscast covering what's

3547
03:02:42,640 --> 03:02:44,760
Speaker 3: happening in the White House, the crumbling world, and what

3548
03:02:44,800 --> 03:02:47,320
Speaker 3: it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis. Today I'm joined

3549
03:02:47,520 --> 03:02:51,080
Speaker 3: by James Stout, Miya Wong, and Robert Evans. Yep. This episode,

3550
03:02:51,080 --> 03:02:56,280
Speaker 3: we're covering the week of September eleven to September eighteenth.

3551
03:02:56,080 --> 03:02:58,800
Speaker 6: Normally a week in history when very little happens.

3552
03:02:58,840 --> 03:03:01,240
Speaker 3: The most normal week of a American politics. Yeah.

3553
03:03:01,280 --> 03:03:06,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, Traditionally, nothing around the first third of September's days

3554
03:03:06,080 --> 03:03:08,080
Speaker 2: as ever mattered in American history.

3555
03:03:08,440 --> 03:03:11,360
Speaker 3: We should schedule our calendar just to block out this

3556
03:03:11,440 --> 03:03:14,000
Speaker 3: whole section of the year each time.

3557
03:03:14,280 --> 03:03:16,800
Speaker 2: I already have it written down in Mike calendar as

3558
03:03:16,920 --> 03:03:21,560
Speaker 2: the week to forget, so I just spend it drinking.

3559
03:03:22,160 --> 03:03:24,720
Speaker 3: Robert, do you want to introduce their first topic?

3560
03:03:25,200 --> 03:03:28,000
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, our first topic, as we talked about

3561
03:03:28,080 --> 03:03:31,480
Speaker 2: last week, is the fallout from the murder of Charlie Kirk,

3562
03:03:31,959 --> 03:03:36,480
Speaker 2: particularly its impact on free speech and the pretext it's

3563
03:03:36,520 --> 03:03:40,000
Speaker 2: being used for to justify a crackdown on the quote

3564
03:03:40,080 --> 03:03:45,200
Speaker 2: unquote left different NGOs and other organizations that are being

3565
03:03:45,280 --> 03:03:49,720
Speaker 2: accused of being part of a vast and let's say,

3566
03:03:50,040 --> 03:03:54,920
Speaker 2: unlikely conspiracy to commit terrorism that has nothing to do

3567
03:03:55,040 --> 03:03:59,800
Speaker 2: with what's actually been discovered about Tyler Robinson, Charlie Kirk's killer,

3568
03:04:00,200 --> 03:04:03,160
Speaker 2: but nonetheless it's being used that way, And kind of

3569
03:04:03,160 --> 03:04:04,840
Speaker 2: the first thing to probably talk about is what's come

3570
03:04:04,879 --> 03:04:08,959
Speaker 2: out about Tyler Robinson's motivations in the time since we

3571
03:04:09,040 --> 03:04:12,080
Speaker 2: recorded our last episode. Honestly, I was kind of surprised

3572
03:04:12,160 --> 03:04:16,000
Speaker 2: Gare when we recorded on Friday. I had expected us

3573
03:04:16,000 --> 03:04:19,879
Speaker 2: to need to do an update before Monday in order

3574
03:04:19,920 --> 03:04:24,600
Speaker 2: to catch up. Really, there wasn't much that it came out.

3575
03:04:24,879 --> 03:04:24,920
Speaker 21: No.

3576
03:04:25,160 --> 03:04:27,879
Speaker 3: I did a brief update confirming that he was living

3577
03:04:27,920 --> 03:04:30,400
Speaker 3: with a transperson, but that was really all we knew

3578
03:04:30,400 --> 03:04:33,440
Speaker 3: at the time that could be confirmed. That was pretty

3579
03:04:33,440 --> 03:04:37,080
Speaker 3: evergreen as we suspected it it might be, and I

3580
03:04:37,120 --> 03:04:42,400
Speaker 3: will say, frankly, the motive still remains not entirely clear,

3581
03:04:42,440 --> 03:04:45,800
Speaker 3: but we do have some more concrete details about his

3582
03:04:46,320 --> 03:04:50,320
Speaker 3: online background. Yeah, and a few others, like ancillary pieces,

3583
03:04:50,560 --> 03:04:53,960
Speaker 3: which is included in the charging document, as well as

3584
03:04:54,240 --> 03:04:56,600
Speaker 3: reporting on his discord logs.

3585
03:04:57,000 --> 03:05:00,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think we should talk first about the

3586
03:05:00,240 --> 03:05:03,080
Speaker 2: whole trans roommate thing of it all, because obviously, first off,

3587
03:05:04,000 --> 03:05:07,280
Speaker 2: this is one of the most massive reaches I've seen,

3588
03:05:07,440 --> 03:05:10,080
Speaker 2: Like they're always desperate to have a trans connection anytime

3589
03:05:10,120 --> 03:05:10,800
Speaker 2: there's a shooting.

3590
03:05:11,080 --> 03:05:13,879
Speaker 3: They were trying to establish this literally like seconds after

3591
03:05:13,920 --> 03:05:14,320
Speaker 3: it happened.

3592
03:05:14,680 --> 03:05:16,800
Speaker 2: And that's been the case with like the last year

3593
03:05:16,840 --> 03:05:19,200
Speaker 2: and a half or two worth of mass shootings. Yeah,

3594
03:05:19,280 --> 03:05:20,920
Speaker 2: or at least a sizable number of them.

3595
03:05:21,080 --> 03:05:23,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, that was a meme, right for why it's like

3596
03:05:23,240 --> 03:05:26,360
Speaker 6: a four Chan thing to suggest that any mass shooter

3597
03:05:26,520 --> 03:05:28,480
Speaker 6: was trans and now it's just become reality.

3598
03:05:28,879 --> 03:05:31,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, And in this case, the allegation started coming out

3599
03:05:31,560 --> 03:05:34,959
Speaker 2: from the police that his roommate was transgender. This was

3600
03:05:35,000 --> 03:05:38,000
Speaker 2: before the discord logs had leaked. So I want you

3601
03:05:38,040 --> 03:05:41,120
Speaker 2: to talk a little bit. Gare you found the Reddit

3602
03:05:41,480 --> 03:05:45,879
Speaker 2: profile of Tyler Robinson's roommate. Yeah, so first question is

3603
03:05:46,240 --> 03:05:48,120
Speaker 2: do we know if they actually were trans and do

3604
03:05:48,160 --> 03:05:49,520
Speaker 2: we know if they actually were in some sort of

3605
03:05:49,520 --> 03:05:52,080
Speaker 2: a relationship. What is the actual evidence that exists to

3606
03:05:52,120 --> 03:05:54,240
Speaker 2: suggest that based on what we have so far.

3607
03:05:54,920 --> 03:05:58,680
Speaker 3: They did post about their transition on multiple subreddits and

3608
03:05:58,959 --> 03:06:03,439
Speaker 3: public facing posts, and they referred to having a boyfriend

3609
03:06:03,520 --> 03:06:07,039
Speaker 3: BF that was helping them cope with the results of

3610
03:06:07,080 --> 03:06:10,080
Speaker 3: the twenty twenty four election. But that's really all we

3611
03:06:10,160 --> 03:06:14,000
Speaker 3: can tell from this at the time of public Reddit

3612
03:06:14,040 --> 03:06:18,720
Speaker 3: profile for the roommate of Tyler Robinson, who had again

3613
03:06:18,760 --> 03:06:22,400
Speaker 3: some sort of romantic relationship with the like nitty gritty

3614
03:06:22,440 --> 03:06:24,800
Speaker 3: you know, arc of their whole relationship is like not

3615
03:06:24,959 --> 03:06:28,480
Speaker 3: explicitly clear, but certainly a pad a romantic relationship.

3616
03:06:29,040 --> 03:06:32,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I want to make it clear, which should

3617
03:06:32,000 --> 03:06:34,640
Speaker 2: be obvious to anyone who has like a third of

3618
03:06:34,680 --> 03:06:37,400
Speaker 2: a brain cell to rub together against the inside of

3619
03:06:37,440 --> 03:06:41,440
Speaker 2: their skull. There's not any evidence that this roommate was

3620
03:06:41,480 --> 03:06:44,440
Speaker 2: tied in any way to the Tyler Robinson's crimes, and

3621
03:06:44,480 --> 03:06:46,119
Speaker 2: in fact, the exit evidence this.

3622
03:06:46,320 --> 03:06:49,040
Speaker 3: The state is arguing this that the roommate had no

3623
03:06:49,200 --> 03:06:52,039
Speaker 3: prior knowledge, yes, and has been fully cooperative. That the

3624
03:06:52,120 --> 03:06:53,279
Speaker 3: roommate is not involved.

3625
03:06:53,400 --> 03:06:56,920
Speaker 2: Not only is fully cooperative, but turned Tyler in.

3626
03:06:57,600 --> 03:07:01,200
Speaker 3: Like in part or produced evidence that was now used

3627
03:07:01,200 --> 03:07:05,600
Speaker 3: in the Charging documentary. Tyler turned himself in with his

3628
03:07:05,720 --> 03:07:10,440
Speaker 3: father like officially, but there was certainly conversations happening.

3629
03:07:10,800 --> 03:07:13,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's one of those things you can come

3630
03:07:13,040 --> 03:07:15,000
Speaker 2: down morally on that however you want. It's just a

3631
03:07:15,040 --> 03:07:17,920
Speaker 2: matter of there's absolutely no evidence. As people like Matt

3632
03:07:17,920 --> 03:07:21,600
Speaker 2: Walsherre saying that this is part of some grand LGBT conspiracy,

3633
03:07:22,040 --> 03:07:25,000
Speaker 2: their roommates seemed horrified to have been and you know,

3634
03:07:25,360 --> 03:07:30,000
Speaker 2: understandably terrified to have been potentially implicated in a massive act,

3635
03:07:30,240 --> 03:07:34,760
Speaker 2: like massively famous active murder, right, Like that's a scary

3636
03:07:34,840 --> 03:07:37,720
Speaker 2: thing to come to, like get a discord message realizing,

3637
03:07:37,760 --> 03:07:41,280
Speaker 2: oh fuck now I'm potentially implicated in this. So I

3638
03:07:41,320 --> 03:07:44,480
Speaker 2: do have some understanding for what a shocking moment that is,

3639
03:07:44,600 --> 03:07:47,360
Speaker 2: Like it's hard to imagine, yeah, dealing with that in

3640
03:07:47,400 --> 03:07:49,640
Speaker 2: any way, shape or form. That's just a wild thing

3641
03:07:49,720 --> 03:07:51,480
Speaker 2: to have happened in the middle of your fucking day,

3642
03:07:51,680 --> 03:07:53,920
Speaker 2: presumably while you're at work or some shit. This would

3643
03:07:53,920 --> 03:07:56,000
Speaker 2: have been around noon, so I'm guessing they were on

3644
03:07:56,160 --> 03:07:59,320
Speaker 2: the job when they got these messages. She's a horrible,

3645
03:07:59,360 --> 03:08:00,520
Speaker 2: horrible thing to deal with.

3646
03:08:00,840 --> 03:08:05,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's go over some of the text exchanges included

3647
03:08:05,640 --> 03:08:08,400
Speaker 3: in the charging document. It's technically not an indictment because

3648
03:08:08,400 --> 03:08:11,240
Speaker 3: they did not charge via grand jury. Yeah, it's a

3649
03:08:11,400 --> 03:08:14,440
Speaker 3: placeholder for that. Yeah, but it's referred to as like

3650
03:08:14,480 --> 03:08:18,720
Speaker 3: a charging information document that they included some text messages

3651
03:08:18,959 --> 03:08:21,440
Speaker 3: because it was the clearest evidence to lay out to

3652
03:08:21,600 --> 03:08:23,760
Speaker 3: charge them with the crime, though not the only evidence,

3653
03:08:23,800 --> 03:08:27,480
Speaker 3: as we will soon discuss. And these textlogs are core

3654
03:08:27,560 --> 03:08:31,280
Speaker 3: to like people like Walsh's current argument that the trans

3655
03:08:31,400 --> 03:08:34,400
Speaker 3: roommate must have actually been involved because they think that

3656
03:08:34,440 --> 03:08:36,760
Speaker 3: the messages that I'm going to read here we were

3657
03:08:36,800 --> 03:08:40,000
Speaker 3: like scripted between the roommate and the shooter specifically to

3658
03:08:40,080 --> 03:08:45,199
Speaker 3: exonerate the roommate, and that that's the conspiracy that people

3659
03:08:45,240 --> 03:08:48,360
Speaker 3: like Walsh are spreading. Let's go over this section of

3660
03:08:48,400 --> 03:08:52,480
Speaker 3: this document quote. The police interviewed Robinson's roommate, a biological

3661
03:08:52,520 --> 03:08:55,080
Speaker 3: male who was involved in a metal relationship with Robinson.

3662
03:08:55,080 --> 03:08:57,800
Speaker 3: The roommate told police that the roommate received messages from

3663
03:08:57,879 --> 03:09:02,480
Speaker 3: Robinson about the shooting and provide those messages to police.

3664
03:09:02,640 --> 03:09:04,600
Speaker 3: On September tenth, twenty twenty five, the roommate received a

3665
03:09:04,600 --> 03:09:07,520
Speaker 3: text message from Robinson which said, drop what you are doing,

3666
03:09:07,720 --> 03:09:10,880
Speaker 3: look under my keyboard. The roommate looked under the keyboard

3667
03:09:10,920 --> 03:09:13,519
Speaker 3: and found a note that stated I had the opportunity

3668
03:09:13,520 --> 03:09:16,199
Speaker 3: to take out Charlie Kirk and I'm going to take

3669
03:09:16,240 --> 03:09:21,400
Speaker 3: it unquote. Police found a photograph of this note. The

3670
03:09:21,480 --> 03:09:25,200
Speaker 3: following text exchange then took place. After reading the note,

3671
03:09:25,240 --> 03:09:30,800
Speaker 3: the roommate responded, what with many question marks? You're joking, right, Robinson?

3672
03:09:31,320 --> 03:09:34,240
Speaker 3: I am still okay, my love, but I am stuck

3673
03:09:34,280 --> 03:09:37,160
Speaker 3: in orm for a little while longer yet, shouldn't be

3674
03:09:37,280 --> 03:09:40,480
Speaker 3: long until I can come home. But I gotta grab

3675
03:09:40,600 --> 03:09:43,400
Speaker 3: my rifle still. To be honest, I'd hoped to keep

3676
03:09:43,440 --> 03:09:46,640
Speaker 3: this secret till I died of old age. I'm sorry

3677
03:09:46,640 --> 03:09:49,760
Speaker 3: to involve you, roommate. You weren't the one who did

3678
03:09:49,760 --> 03:09:55,320
Speaker 3: it right, many question marks, Robinson. I am sorry, roommate.

3679
03:09:55,879 --> 03:09:59,880
Speaker 3: I thought they caught the person Robinson. No, they grabbed

3680
03:10:00,120 --> 03:10:03,400
Speaker 3: some crazy old dude that interrogated someone in similar clothing.

3681
03:10:04,040 --> 03:10:06,320
Speaker 3: I had planned to grab my rifle from my drop

3682
03:10:06,320 --> 03:10:09,400
Speaker 3: point shortly after, but most of that side of town

3683
03:10:09,480 --> 03:10:12,320
Speaker 3: got locked down. It's quiet almost enough to get out.

3684
03:10:12,640 --> 03:10:17,360
Speaker 3: There's one vehicle lingering roommate, Why Robinson? Why did I

3685
03:10:17,400 --> 03:10:22,560
Speaker 3: do it? Roommate, Yeah, Robinson, I had enough of his hatred.

3686
03:10:22,800 --> 03:10:25,840
Speaker 3: Some hate can't be negotiated out. If I'm able to

3687
03:10:25,840 --> 03:10:28,480
Speaker 3: grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence.

3688
03:10:28,680 --> 03:10:31,160
Speaker 3: Going to attempt to retrieve it again. Hopefully they have

3689
03:10:31,200 --> 03:10:34,360
Speaker 3: moved on. I haven't seen anything about them finding it. Roommate,

3690
03:10:34,760 --> 03:10:37,520
Speaker 3: how long have you been planning this, Robinson? A bit

3691
03:10:37,560 --> 03:10:40,320
Speaker 3: over a week. I believe I can get close to it,

3692
03:10:40,360 --> 03:10:42,960
Speaker 3: but there's a squad car parked right by it. I

3693
03:10:42,959 --> 03:10:45,440
Speaker 3: think they already swept that spot. But I don't want

3694
03:10:45,440 --> 03:10:48,480
Speaker 3: to chance it, Robinson. I'm wishing i'd circle back and

3695
03:10:48,480 --> 03:10:50,480
Speaker 3: grabbed it as soon as I got to my vehicle.

3696
03:10:50,720 --> 03:10:52,600
Speaker 3: I'm worried what my old man would do if I

3697
03:10:52,640 --> 03:10:56,120
Speaker 3: didn't bring back Grandpa's rifle. I don't know if it

3698
03:10:56,160 --> 03:10:59,000
Speaker 3: had a serial number, but it wouldn't trace to me.

3699
03:10:59,480 --> 03:11:01,680
Speaker 3: I worry about Prince. I had to leave it in

3700
03:11:01,760 --> 03:11:04,959
Speaker 3: a bush where I changed outfits. I didn't have the

3701
03:11:05,000 --> 03:11:08,360
Speaker 3: ability or time to bring it with I might have

3702
03:11:08,480 --> 03:11:11,400
Speaker 3: to abandon it and hope they don't find Prince. How

3703
03:11:11,480 --> 03:11:13,879
Speaker 3: the fuck will I explain losing it to my old man.

3704
03:11:14,560 --> 03:11:17,400
Speaker 3: Only thing I left was the rifle wrapped in a towel.

3705
03:11:17,920 --> 03:11:20,800
Speaker 3: Remember how I was engraving bullets. The fucking messages are

3706
03:11:20,840 --> 03:11:24,120
Speaker 3: mostly a big meme. If I see notices bulje ooh

3707
03:11:24,160 --> 03:11:26,840
Speaker 3: wu on Fox News, I might have a stroke. Got

3708
03:11:26,920 --> 03:11:29,600
Speaker 3: it all right, I'm gonna have to leave it. That

3709
03:11:29,640 --> 03:11:33,199
Speaker 3: really fucking sucks. Judging from today, I'd say Grandpa's gun

3710
03:11:33,280 --> 03:11:36,920
Speaker 3: does just fine. IDK, I think that was a two

3711
03:11:36,959 --> 03:11:42,160
Speaker 3: thousand dollars scope. Robinson, Delete this exchange, Robinson. My dad

3712
03:11:42,200 --> 03:11:44,560
Speaker 3: wants photos of the rifle, he says. Grandpa wants to

3713
03:11:44,600 --> 03:11:47,120
Speaker 3: know who has what. The FEDS released a photo of

3714
03:11:47,160 --> 03:11:49,840
Speaker 3: the rifle and it is very unique. He's calling me

3715
03:11:50,080 --> 03:11:54,440
Speaker 3: r n not answering, Robinson. Since Trump got into office,

3716
03:11:54,480 --> 03:11:57,280
Speaker 3: my dad has been pretty diehard Mega. I'm going to

3717
03:11:57,320 --> 03:12:00,520
Speaker 3: turn myself in Willingly. One of my neighbors here is

3718
03:12:00,560 --> 03:12:03,560
Speaker 3: a deputy for the sheriff. You are all I worry about,

3719
03:12:03,760 --> 03:12:09,280
Speaker 3: love roommate. I'm much more worried about you, Robinson. Don't

3720
03:12:09,280 --> 03:12:11,640
Speaker 3: talk to the media. Please, don't take any interviews or

3721
03:12:11,680 --> 03:12:14,760
Speaker 3: make any comments. If police ask you questions, ask for

3722
03:12:14,800 --> 03:12:18,160
Speaker 3: a lawyer, and stay silent. That's the end of the exchange.

3723
03:12:18,400 --> 03:12:22,800
Speaker 6: Yep, it seems like this person fairly wisely stopped engaging

3724
03:12:22,959 --> 03:12:25,279
Speaker 6: with the Yeah.

3725
03:12:25,040 --> 03:12:28,720
Speaker 2: There's not a good response to give to that.

3726
03:12:29,280 --> 03:12:29,959
Speaker 6: No, that's not.

3727
03:12:30,320 --> 03:12:34,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, Discord Again, one of the one thing I would

3728
03:12:34,680 --> 03:12:37,880
Speaker 2: hope this would bust is this has to have been

3729
03:12:38,080 --> 03:12:42,080
Speaker 2: a professional hit man assassin of some sort, which is

3730
03:12:42,080 --> 03:12:45,039
Speaker 2: a job that I mean, it technically exists, Like there

3731
03:12:45,040 --> 03:12:47,560
Speaker 2: are guys who are for the fucking crypts of the Bloods,

3732
03:12:47,640 --> 03:12:49,600
Speaker 2: or you could call them professional hitmen, and that they

3733
03:12:49,680 --> 03:12:52,320
Speaker 2: kill people for money, but they're not like the people

3734
03:12:52,360 --> 03:12:55,200
Speaker 2: you see in movies, Like they're guys who will walk

3735
03:12:55,280 --> 03:12:57,440
Speaker 2: up with a thirty eight and gut shoot somebody and

3736
03:12:57,520 --> 03:13:00,280
Speaker 2: run the fuck off, Like they're not We're not talking

3737
03:13:00,360 --> 03:13:05,320
Speaker 2: about like smooth operators. Those people almost don't exist as

3738
03:13:05,360 --> 03:13:08,680
Speaker 2: a profession, and certainly not is a standard thing in

3739
03:13:08,720 --> 03:13:11,720
Speaker 2: the United States. And that that like the fact that

3740
03:13:11,800 --> 03:13:15,640
Speaker 2: he was having this kind of conversation on Discord.

3741
03:13:15,240 --> 03:13:16,880
Speaker 3: This is I believe, regular text.

3742
03:13:16,959 --> 03:13:18,240
Speaker 2: So these are regular regular text.

3743
03:13:18,280 --> 03:13:21,400
Speaker 6: This is straight up yeah sms, right, like yeah.

3744
03:13:21,160 --> 03:13:24,640
Speaker 2: He's messaging this shit through unencrypted lines and left a

3745
03:13:24,720 --> 03:13:28,080
Speaker 2: note under his keyboard and dropped the rifle in the woods,

3746
03:13:28,560 --> 03:13:30,880
Speaker 2: Like this is all about what you'd expect from a

3747
03:13:30,920 --> 03:13:34,280
Speaker 2: twenty two year old kid who's a reasonably good shot

3748
03:13:34,320 --> 03:13:37,440
Speaker 2: with a rifle and had no real other skills. Like

3749
03:13:37,840 --> 03:13:38,760
Speaker 2: it's what it looked like.

3750
03:13:38,879 --> 03:13:41,560
Speaker 6: Yes, this doesn't even seem like someone who spent a

3751
03:13:41,560 --> 03:13:45,600
Speaker 6: great deal of time planning, right, like learning about that.

3752
03:13:45,879 --> 03:13:47,680
Speaker 3: They said they've been planning about it for about a week.

3753
03:13:48,040 --> 03:13:51,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, this lines up with what they said, right, like Nick, Yeah,

3754
03:13:51,480 --> 03:13:54,760
Speaker 2: and they seem almost surprised. Yeah, I got this weird

3755
03:13:54,840 --> 03:13:58,520
Speaker 2: feeling reading it, Like Tyler almost is shocked that they

3756
03:13:58,560 --> 03:14:01,959
Speaker 2: did it, Like there's this sense of being pulled by history.

3757
03:14:02,440 --> 03:14:05,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's seemingly confused by his own actions in a sense.

3758
03:14:05,560 --> 03:14:07,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, like watching himself almost like.

3759
03:14:07,959 --> 03:14:11,720
Speaker 2: Yes, and like I I scrite like one of the things.

3760
03:14:11,720 --> 03:14:14,000
Speaker 2: It sounds like and this is a little unclear, but

3761
03:14:14,080 --> 03:14:16,280
Speaker 2: it sounds like in terms of those memes winding up.

3762
03:14:16,280 --> 03:14:19,480
Speaker 2: But he was doing that before, maybe even before he'd

3763
03:14:19,480 --> 03:14:22,360
Speaker 2: ever planned to shoot Kirk. That's just like a thing

3764
03:14:22,480 --> 03:14:24,760
Speaker 2: he did for shit for people.

3765
03:14:24,800 --> 03:14:26,879
Speaker 3: People have pointed to that as being like, oh, well,

3766
03:14:26,920 --> 03:14:29,440
Speaker 3: obviously the roommate knew something was up. If if the

3767
03:14:29,520 --> 03:14:33,119
Speaker 3: roommate was aware that that Robinson was carving bullets. That's

3768
03:14:33,240 --> 03:14:35,959
Speaker 3: first of all, that's not a crime. No, people just

3769
03:14:36,000 --> 03:14:38,880
Speaker 3: do weird shit sometimes, especially if someone goes to the

3770
03:14:39,000 --> 03:14:41,920
Speaker 3: range often maybe they're gonna fucking scribble on a bullet Like.

3771
03:14:41,920 --> 03:14:45,720
Speaker 3: That's not indication of anything that's legitimately concerning.

3772
03:14:45,720 --> 03:14:48,720
Speaker 2: Frankly, yeah, it's indication again that this guy was very

3773
03:14:48,760 --> 03:14:50,959
Speaker 2: online in the gamer right.

3774
03:14:50,560 --> 03:14:50,680
Speaker 5: Yea.

3775
03:14:51,520 --> 03:14:52,119
Speaker 2: But that's it.

3776
03:14:53,560 --> 03:14:57,400
Speaker 3: So it's not just people like Walsh who are casting

3777
03:14:57,480 --> 03:15:01,160
Speaker 3: doubt on the authenticity of these messages. Plenty of liberals

3778
03:15:01,160 --> 03:15:04,600
Speaker 3: and people on the left have taken to suspecting that

3779
03:15:04,640 --> 03:15:07,840
Speaker 3: these could have been written by an quote unquote FBI

3780
03:15:08,000 --> 03:15:13,080
Speaker 3: agent or law enforcement as fake evidence to frame the shooter.

3781
03:15:14,160 --> 03:15:18,920
Speaker 3: And people have pointed towards some weird verbiage like calling

3782
03:15:18,920 --> 03:15:23,760
Speaker 3: his dad his old man and referring to quote unquote

3783
03:15:23,800 --> 03:15:28,720
Speaker 3: like law enforcement type language like interrogate and Yeah, to me,

3784
03:15:29,480 --> 03:15:32,320
Speaker 3: this is not very confusing. He talks like this because

3785
03:15:32,400 --> 03:15:35,480
Speaker 3: he's raised Mormon and plays a lot of tactical video

3786
03:15:35,560 --> 03:15:39,879
Speaker 3: games thousands of hours I have. I have a Steam profile, huge,

3787
03:15:40,040 --> 03:15:43,080
Speaker 3: huge gamer, and he might talk a little odd because

3788
03:15:43,120 --> 03:15:45,240
Speaker 3: he just did a fucking crazy thing.

3789
03:15:45,560 --> 03:15:49,040
Speaker 2: I don't even think it's that odd. It's nice people

3790
03:15:49,240 --> 03:15:51,760
Speaker 2: call someone they're in love with, my love. That's a

3791
03:15:51,800 --> 03:15:53,279
Speaker 2: thing that happens in the world.

3792
03:15:53,400 --> 03:15:54,760
Speaker 7: Like that's not like a.

3793
03:15:54,840 --> 03:15:57,160
Speaker 3: Very normal What are we doing here?

3794
03:15:57,840 --> 03:16:02,040
Speaker 2: Why are we questioning this part of the Yeah?

3795
03:16:02,080 --> 03:16:04,200
Speaker 3: But and again like these texts were handed over to

3796
03:16:04,240 --> 03:16:09,040
Speaker 3: local police by Robinson's roommate. Why fake evidence that would

3797
03:16:09,080 --> 03:16:12,440
Speaker 3: jeopardize the case when the police already have a lot

3798
03:16:12,480 --> 03:16:17,320
Speaker 3: of other evidence, DNA ballistic evidence, the fun group discord

3799
03:16:17,360 --> 03:16:20,240
Speaker 3: chat where he also admitted to the crime right before

3800
03:16:20,280 --> 03:16:23,440
Speaker 3: he turned himself in. Like these tex slogs don't even

3801
03:16:23,480 --> 03:16:25,959
Speaker 3: like make him out to be a crazy leftist. He

3802
03:16:26,000 --> 03:16:29,879
Speaker 3: talks like very vaguely about Kirk, like spreading hatred. Yeah,

3803
03:16:29,959 --> 03:16:33,440
Speaker 3: he says nothing about politics. And again, as we'll talk

3804
03:16:33,440 --> 03:16:37,240
Speaker 3: about because there's some evidence here suggesting that both Tyler

3805
03:16:37,280 --> 03:16:42,120
Speaker 3: and their roommate, like their politics were mixed from what

3806
03:16:42,160 --> 03:16:44,800
Speaker 3: little we can glean about them, right or a very

3807
03:16:44,840 --> 03:16:46,760
Speaker 3: minor part of their lives in a sense like.

3808
03:16:46,760 --> 03:16:50,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not talking about redistribution of wealth, they're not

3809
03:16:50,040 --> 03:16:51,520
Speaker 2: talking about overthrowing the gun.

3810
03:16:51,640 --> 03:16:53,680
Speaker 3: Oh no, they're not talking about politics in that way.

3811
03:16:54,040 --> 03:16:56,119
Speaker 3: This seems more like personal to him.

3812
03:16:56,120 --> 03:16:58,680
Speaker 2: Yes, he's in love with a transperson and he didn't

3813
03:16:58,720 --> 03:17:00,320
Speaker 2: like what Charlie Kirk said about Tree.

3814
03:17:00,840 --> 03:17:03,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, And like, if the government's going to fake messages,

3815
03:17:04,080 --> 03:17:06,720
Speaker 3: why would they do so in a way that exonerates

3816
03:17:06,760 --> 03:17:09,800
Speaker 3: the trans roommate the real ideological target here.

3817
03:17:09,879 --> 03:17:12,320
Speaker 2: Especially, look at what the government is doing right now,

3818
03:17:12,400 --> 03:17:15,360
Speaker 2: right they're going after quote unquote Antifa, They're going after

3819
03:17:15,400 --> 03:17:18,320
Speaker 2: the Open Society Foundation, George Soros, all of these left

3820
03:17:18,360 --> 03:17:22,200
Speaker 2: wing NGOs. If they were faking this, would he not

3821
03:17:22,400 --> 03:17:26,280
Speaker 2: have referenced one of those organizations? Would there not be

3822
03:17:26,320 --> 03:17:29,520
Speaker 2: a fucking black and red flag somewhere right there?

3823
03:17:29,840 --> 03:17:32,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, Like it would be so easy. If you're going

3824
03:17:32,120 --> 03:17:34,720
Speaker 6: to implicate someone, you could implicate in text messages really easily.

3825
03:17:34,760 --> 03:17:37,879
Speaker 6: Like it's ridiculous to suggest that, yeah, the state did this.

3826
03:17:38,280 --> 03:17:40,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, why would you fake that?

3827
03:17:40,640 --> 03:17:42,160
Speaker 2: Why would you fake it that way?

3828
03:17:42,440 --> 03:17:46,320
Speaker 3: Baffling, incomprehensible. These texts are not load bearing to this case.

3829
03:17:47,520 --> 03:17:50,520
Speaker 3: There's plenty of other evidence. And this isn't the same

3830
03:17:50,640 --> 03:17:53,680
Speaker 3: thing as like cops planting evidence or like a district

3831
03:17:53,720 --> 03:17:57,320
Speaker 3: attorney making subjective claims about intent, Like you don't need

3832
03:17:57,360 --> 03:18:00,000
Speaker 3: to overestimate state intelligence here.

3833
03:18:00,120 --> 03:18:02,840
Speaker 2: No, we don't even need for what we have. There

3834
03:18:02,920 --> 03:18:05,800
Speaker 2: was no need for them to have done anything at all,

3835
03:18:05,920 --> 03:18:09,959
Speaker 2: because Robinson specifically notes that as soon as pictures of

3836
03:18:10,000 --> 03:18:12,960
Speaker 2: the rifle were posted online by police, his dad fucking

3837
03:18:13,000 --> 03:18:16,280
Speaker 2: calls family knew because it is a unique gun. It

3838
03:18:16,400 --> 03:18:22,040
Speaker 2: is an antique mouser that was sportized and rebarreled, presumably

3839
03:18:22,120 --> 03:18:25,960
Speaker 2: personally by his grandfather. Both his grandpa and his dad

3840
03:18:26,000 --> 03:18:29,200
Speaker 2: seemed to have recognized it immediately. There was no getting

3841
03:18:29,240 --> 03:18:31,080
Speaker 2: away with it once the rifle was found.

3842
03:18:31,480 --> 03:18:34,960
Speaker 3: This is totally different from like the MS thirteen tattoo thing,

3843
03:18:35,080 --> 03:18:40,240
Speaker 3: where the trumpetdministration argued for an interpretation of tattoos and

3844
03:18:40,400 --> 03:18:44,400
Speaker 3: then printed out a picture with like very clearly photoshopped

3845
03:18:44,480 --> 03:18:46,680
Speaker 3: letters to draw a parallel between what they think the

3846
03:18:46,720 --> 03:18:49,920
Speaker 3: tattoos meant and with their interpretation of it as letters

3847
03:18:49,920 --> 03:18:53,120
Speaker 3: and numbers, which trump in all of his genius, mistook

3848
03:18:53,240 --> 03:18:56,080
Speaker 3: for being actual tattoos. And then they just ran with

3849
03:18:56,160 --> 03:18:58,160
Speaker 3: it because no one has the capacity to tell the

3850
03:18:58,200 --> 03:19:02,400
Speaker 3: president you were wrong. This is completely different than faking

3851
03:19:02,800 --> 03:19:06,400
Speaker 3: all these text messages. There's metadata, there's cell phone records.

3852
03:19:06,920 --> 03:19:10,480
Speaker 3: It's probably still on the roommate's own phone, like physical

3853
03:19:10,600 --> 03:19:14,680
Speaker 3: a physical evidence, and like subjectively saying that you don't

3854
03:19:14,720 --> 03:19:17,400
Speaker 3: know any gen z that talks like this, that's not

3855
03:19:17,520 --> 03:19:21,080
Speaker 3: valid evidence. Twenty two year olds know how to use punctuation.

3856
03:19:21,959 --> 03:19:25,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, let me tell you of someone who crades hundreds

3857
03:19:25,080 --> 03:19:27,600
Speaker 6: of papers every year from people who are largely but

3858
03:19:27,680 --> 03:19:31,119
Speaker 6: not all, between eighteen and twenty five. Yeah, young people

3859
03:19:31,160 --> 03:19:33,680
Speaker 6: can use punctuation. This is not like some kind of

3860
03:19:33,800 --> 03:19:37,080
Speaker 6: forensic fucking literary analysis required.

3861
03:19:37,480 --> 03:19:42,119
Speaker 3: And the information obtained in these chat logs and through

3862
03:19:42,120 --> 03:19:45,119
Speaker 3: interviews with his parents match reporting by Ken Klippenstein, who

3863
03:19:45,160 --> 03:19:49,480
Speaker 3: got leaked messages from the shooter on discord, very very similar.

3864
03:19:49,640 --> 03:19:52,760
Speaker 3: Like lots of libs and people on the left are

3865
03:19:52,800 --> 03:19:54,959
Speaker 3: saying this is fake because they wanted the shooter to

3866
03:19:55,040 --> 03:19:58,879
Speaker 3: be conservative and they think that these texts damage the

3867
03:19:58,959 --> 03:20:00,720
Speaker 3: narrative that they have chosen. And I think that's why

3868
03:20:00,720 --> 03:20:03,360
Speaker 3: we're seeing people react so strongly to this. It's not

3869
03:20:03,400 --> 03:20:07,120
Speaker 3: about actually evaluating the evidence on like a base level, right,

3870
03:20:07,160 --> 03:20:09,680
Speaker 3: Like this guy grew up in a conservative Mormon family.

3871
03:20:09,840 --> 03:20:13,200
Speaker 3: His dad's pretty mega. Robinson figured out he was bisexual

3872
03:20:13,240 --> 03:20:14,760
Speaker 3: and started to move a little bit to the left

3873
03:20:14,800 --> 03:20:17,840
Speaker 3: on like gender and sexuality issues. And like and even

3874
03:20:17,879 --> 03:20:20,280
Speaker 3: like a lot of gen Z straight guys kind of

3875
03:20:20,280 --> 03:20:23,360
Speaker 3: have this political profile, right, they're like pro gun, but

3876
03:20:23,440 --> 03:20:25,880
Speaker 3: their life revolves around like gaming discord and read it

3877
03:20:25,959 --> 03:20:28,000
Speaker 3: more than like the political.

3878
03:20:27,760 --> 03:20:31,280
Speaker 2: And they're probably often pro capitalist. They're just not bigoted

3879
03:20:31,360 --> 03:20:35,080
Speaker 2: against queer people. Yeah, because that's not as common anymore.

3880
03:20:35,600 --> 03:20:38,440
Speaker 3: These aren't political partisans. Yeah, they're not even on our

3881
03:20:38,560 --> 03:20:42,520
Speaker 3: slash bread tube, Like, yeah, that's that's not what's happening.

3882
03:20:42,640 --> 03:20:46,720
Speaker 3: He played, he played furry sex games on Steam when

3883
03:20:46,720 --> 03:20:48,960
Speaker 3: he was younger. One of his Steam names was Donald

3884
03:20:49,000 --> 03:20:51,000
Speaker 3: Trump because yeah, he's twenty two years old. Trump was

3885
03:20:51,040 --> 03:20:52,760
Speaker 3: an Augurat when he was like thirteen or whatever, Like,

3886
03:20:52,840 --> 03:20:58,800
Speaker 3: oh god, yeah.

3887
03:20:54,320 --> 03:20:54,560
Speaker 7: It's.

3888
03:20:56,480 --> 03:20:58,360
Speaker 2: We fucked the kids up so bad.

3889
03:20:59,080 --> 03:21:01,520
Speaker 3: It's it's a large it's largely a political and like

3890
03:21:01,600 --> 03:21:06,840
Speaker 3: this what he did is is existential violence manifesting a

3891
03:21:06,840 --> 03:21:10,440
Speaker 3: political action from someone who isn't otherwise overtly political. Right,

3892
03:21:10,440 --> 03:21:14,000
Speaker 3: because shooting Charlie Kirk incredibly political action, even if that's

3893
03:21:14,040 --> 03:21:17,320
Speaker 3: not the way that that the shooter maybe conceived it.

3894
03:21:18,200 --> 03:21:21,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, like this person happens. It happened across a queer

3895
03:21:21,440 --> 03:21:24,040
Speaker 6: person who they are very fond of. Right, they have

3896
03:21:24,160 --> 03:21:27,120
Speaker 6: queer people in their lives. That is not indicative of

3897
03:21:27,160 --> 03:21:30,200
Speaker 6: any politics other than they have a queer person in

3898
03:21:30,200 --> 03:21:30,720
Speaker 6: their life.

3899
03:21:30,800 --> 03:21:33,840
Speaker 2: If this person stand the Soviet Union, we would fucking

3900
03:21:33,920 --> 03:21:34,680
Speaker 2: know about.

3901
03:21:34,440 --> 03:21:38,640
Speaker 3: It because they would be running with that.

3902
03:21:38,920 --> 03:21:41,600
Speaker 6: They'd have found a most into gud used a mosin

3903
03:21:41,680 --> 03:21:43,519
Speaker 6: for what. So they would have missed.

3904
03:21:46,040 --> 03:21:48,280
Speaker 2: A little bit of Moses slander for you today to

3905
03:21:48,320 --> 03:21:52,480
Speaker 2: break up the horrors. Yeah, speaking of crackdowns, crack down

3906
03:21:52,560 --> 03:21:54,439
Speaker 2: on your wallet by buying.

3907
03:21:54,160 --> 03:21:56,440
Speaker 3: These products and services.

3908
03:21:56,600 --> 03:21:57,959
Speaker 6: Beautiful, lovely.

3909
03:22:09,480 --> 03:22:10,240
Speaker 3: And we're back.

3910
03:22:11,840 --> 03:22:17,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, First Amendment crackdown. Massive rhetoric coming out of Stephen

3911
03:22:17,360 --> 03:22:21,360
Speaker 2: Miller and from Pam Bondi and basically every mouthpiece of

3912
03:22:21,360 --> 03:22:26,040
Speaker 2: the administration about going after the left, about dismantling particularly

3913
03:22:26,120 --> 03:22:29,600
Speaker 2: organizations like the Open Society Foundation, going after George Soros

3914
03:22:29,600 --> 03:22:34,720
Speaker 2: and his son. There's talk about prosecuting people criminally and

3915
03:22:34,800 --> 03:22:37,640
Speaker 2: using the death penalty even on folks who are quote

3916
03:22:37,680 --> 03:22:41,680
Speaker 2: unquote funding terrorism, a term which has been so broadly

3917
03:22:41,720 --> 03:22:45,800
Speaker 2: described by mouthpieces of the administration as to include potentially

3918
03:22:46,120 --> 03:22:47,160
Speaker 2: just about anybody.

3919
03:22:47,560 --> 03:22:53,160
Speaker 3: This could be like bail funds, environmental NGOs, legal support NGOs,

3920
03:22:53,200 --> 03:22:55,640
Speaker 3: like it's really unclear at the exact form that this

3921
03:22:55,720 --> 03:22:58,080
Speaker 3: is going to take. But this is stuff that the

3922
03:22:58,080 --> 03:23:00,840
Speaker 3: administration has pined of a doing for a while.

3923
03:23:01,320 --> 03:23:02,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's unclear.

3924
03:23:02,520 --> 03:23:02,680
Speaker 3: You know.

3925
03:23:02,720 --> 03:23:05,000
Speaker 2: It's one of the big pieces of news that's happened

3926
03:23:05,040 --> 03:23:07,520
Speaker 2: within twenty four hours of US recording this episode, which

3927
03:23:07,560 --> 03:23:11,760
Speaker 2: we recorded on Thursday the eighteenth, is that Trump has

3928
03:23:11,959 --> 03:23:16,560
Speaker 2: designated ANTIFAH a domestic terrorist organization. That he's said that

3929
03:23:16,640 --> 03:23:19,240
Speaker 2: what I'm saying is he said that, he said up

3930
03:23:20,920 --> 03:23:22,519
Speaker 2: words that he has said.

3931
03:23:22,480 --> 03:23:25,480
Speaker 3: Words that he has said before, including it in twenty twenty.

3932
03:23:25,760 --> 03:23:28,680
Speaker 2: For the letter of the law, for one thing, there's

3933
03:23:28,720 --> 03:23:30,920
Speaker 2: a wild difference between what you can do legally to

3934
03:23:31,040 --> 03:23:35,520
Speaker 2: an international foreign terrorist organization, yeah, and in domestic terrorist organization.

3935
03:23:35,720 --> 03:23:36,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3936
03:23:36,040 --> 03:23:40,039
Speaker 2: Because of the First Amendment, you can't just declare legally,

3937
03:23:40,440 --> 03:23:43,199
Speaker 2: in terms of what is written law, the president can't

3938
03:23:43,240 --> 03:23:45,160
Speaker 2: just declare a group of people to be a domestic

3939
03:23:45,240 --> 03:23:46,080
Speaker 2: terrorist organization.

3940
03:23:46,240 --> 03:23:47,920
Speaker 3: It's usually an enhancement charge.

3941
03:23:48,080 --> 03:23:50,720
Speaker 2: Yes, and then just go after people who have spoken

3942
03:23:50,800 --> 03:23:54,680
Speaker 2: out or donated money to legal charities that are randomly

3943
03:23:54,680 --> 03:23:57,080
Speaker 2: declared to be in support of that. That's not league,

3944
03:23:57,120 --> 03:24:00,000
Speaker 2: which doesn't mean it won't happened. Let me be really clear, Yeah, Yeah,

3945
03:24:00,120 --> 03:24:01,640
Speaker 2: but that's not what the law is about.

3946
03:24:01,760 --> 03:24:03,480
Speaker 3: And they've tried to do that in Atlanta was stop

3947
03:24:03,520 --> 03:24:05,960
Speaker 3: Crop City and the Lena Solidarity Fund and going after

3948
03:24:06,080 --> 03:24:08,920
Speaker 3: the Bail Fund and people who had donated money to

3949
03:24:09,040 --> 03:24:12,439
Speaker 3: like the Forest Defense Fund, and this Trump is similarly

3950
03:24:12,440 --> 03:24:15,240
Speaker 3: actually to Atlanta. Is also talked about using RICO charges

3951
03:24:15,280 --> 03:24:18,520
Speaker 3: to get people in trouble who are funding these quote

3952
03:24:18,560 --> 03:24:25,119
Speaker 3: unquote domestic terror organizations. And on yeah, September seventeenth, Trump Truth,

3953
03:24:25,959 --> 03:24:29,040
Speaker 3: I am pleased to inform our many USA patriots that

3954
03:24:29,080 --> 03:24:33,880
Speaker 3: I'm designating Antifa, a sick, dangerous radical left disaster, as

3955
03:24:33,959 --> 03:24:36,960
Speaker 3: a major terrorist organization. I will also be strongly recommending

3956
03:24:36,959 --> 03:24:40,240
Speaker 3: that those funding Antifa be thoroughly investigated in accordance with

3957
03:24:40,280 --> 03:24:42,840
Speaker 3: the highest legal standards and practices. Thank you for your

3958
03:24:42,879 --> 03:24:44,840
Speaker 3: attention to this matter.

3959
03:24:45,640 --> 03:24:47,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean for a use of word major, right,

3960
03:24:47,879 --> 03:24:52,080
Speaker 6: which doesn't that's like there's a domestic terrorism is a

3961
03:24:52,120 --> 03:24:56,000
Speaker 6: concept that's nebulus FTO, foreign terrorist organization is an extremely

3962
03:24:56,080 --> 03:25:00,480
Speaker 6: clear legal definition. He didn't use either of those. Yeah,

3963
03:25:00,480 --> 03:25:03,800
Speaker 6: this is a thing that like Ted Cruz, and I

3964
03:25:03,800 --> 03:25:05,800
Speaker 6: think he enjoyed it. I'm sure there are other people

3965
03:25:05,800 --> 03:25:08,520
Speaker 6: to vote, but Ted Cruz in before twenty twenty twenty nineteen,

3966
03:25:09,120 --> 03:25:12,400
Speaker 6: tried to introduce a resolution in the Senate condemning Antifa

3967
03:25:12,560 --> 03:25:14,200
Speaker 6: like this has been a thing.

3968
03:25:14,760 --> 03:25:17,880
Speaker 3: Marjor Taylor Green introduced legislation which went nowhere or talked

3969
03:25:17,879 --> 03:25:20,320
Speaker 3: about dilation. I don't even know if she actually introduced

3970
03:25:20,360 --> 03:25:24,039
Speaker 3: it like this year about designating Antifa terrorist organization. It's

3971
03:25:24,080 --> 03:25:25,879
Speaker 3: been it's been something like Andy, you know, has been

3972
03:25:25,920 --> 03:25:26,960
Speaker 3: advocating for for years.

3973
03:25:27,160 --> 03:25:29,680
Speaker 2: It's a really important point that they have attempted and

3974
03:25:29,879 --> 03:25:33,279
Speaker 2: failed to do this numerous times because the law doesn't

3975
03:25:33,400 --> 03:25:36,920
Speaker 2: let them. And this is something that if you have

3976
03:25:37,040 --> 03:25:41,360
Speaker 2: been in the riot reporting on public shootings business as

3977
03:25:41,400 --> 03:25:44,360
Speaker 2: long as I said christ one thing I can tell

3978
03:25:44,400 --> 03:25:46,720
Speaker 2: you is that in the wake of something like this,

3979
03:25:46,800 --> 03:25:48,240
Speaker 2: it was the same with christ Church and the immediate

3980
03:25:48,320 --> 03:25:51,160
Speaker 2: wake of christ Church, there was this really shocking moment

3981
03:25:51,160 --> 03:25:53,720
Speaker 2: where a bunch of conservative I talked to these people

3982
03:25:53,720 --> 03:25:57,560
Speaker 2: because I published the art the defining article on that shooting. Yeah,

3983
03:25:57,680 --> 03:26:00,360
Speaker 2: a shitload of conservative organizations came out and said, you

3984
03:26:00,400 --> 03:26:03,840
Speaker 2: know what, maybe we've been wrong about demonizing Muslim immigrants.

3985
03:26:03,920 --> 03:26:06,080
Speaker 2: Maybe like that was really fucked up and we should

3986
03:26:06,240 --> 03:26:09,360
Speaker 2: Like those people were talking about that people who you

3987
03:26:09,400 --> 03:26:12,400
Speaker 2: would not expect that now, they didn't keep talking that way.

3988
03:26:12,440 --> 03:26:14,800
Speaker 2: They got to work pretty quick. But what you have

3989
03:26:14,920 --> 03:26:18,840
Speaker 2: in a moment like this is there's a limited period

3990
03:26:18,840 --> 03:26:23,560
Speaker 2: of time where people's shock and horror and surprise at

3991
03:26:23,560 --> 03:26:29,760
Speaker 2: what has happened creates spaces of possibility for folks who

3992
03:26:29,840 --> 03:26:32,760
Speaker 2: have an agenda and who have a clear plan for

3993
03:26:32,800 --> 03:26:38,840
Speaker 2: what to push, to push the overton envelope in their direction. Right,

3994
03:26:39,400 --> 03:26:42,080
Speaker 2: this is not a period of time that lasts forever,

3995
03:26:42,640 --> 03:26:48,280
Speaker 2: and the folks who are largely orchestrating the conservative response

3996
03:26:48,360 --> 03:26:51,560
Speaker 2: to Charlie Kirk's murder are aware of this, and they

3997
03:26:51,560 --> 03:26:54,000
Speaker 2: are making the best use of this period of time

3998
03:26:54,040 --> 03:26:56,920
Speaker 2: that they can get. Now, that doesn't mean the fact

3999
03:26:56,959 --> 03:26:59,480
Speaker 2: that this is a limited period of time doesn't mean

4000
03:26:59,520 --> 03:27:02,440
Speaker 2: there aren't law term consequences, doesn't mean that they can't

4001
03:27:02,440 --> 03:27:06,240
Speaker 2: make significant progress on their plan to stifle free speech.

4002
03:27:06,320 --> 03:27:09,080
Speaker 2: Doesn't mean we're not in massive danger. Because we are

4003
03:27:09,120 --> 03:27:13,320
Speaker 2: in danger, folks. I'm not telling you we're not. I'm

4004
03:27:13,360 --> 03:27:17,720
Speaker 2: telling you these spaces of possibility don't last forever, in

4005
03:27:17,760 --> 03:27:20,520
Speaker 2: part because the public moves on, and in part because

4006
03:27:20,600 --> 03:27:23,600
Speaker 2: there is always a backlash to the backlash, and you're

4007
03:27:23,600 --> 03:27:24,760
Speaker 2: seeing pieces of that already.

4008
03:27:25,040 --> 03:27:26,160
Speaker 3: We are seeing pieces of that.

4009
03:27:26,600 --> 03:27:30,840
Speaker 2: Fucking Carl Rove, of all motherfucking people, wrote an article

4010
03:27:30,879 --> 03:27:35,760
Speaker 2: about how the administration is unfairly blaming liberals and leftists

4011
03:27:35,800 --> 03:27:39,040
Speaker 2: for the actions of an individual shooter. Tucker Carlson came

4012
03:27:39,080 --> 03:27:41,440
Speaker 2: out and made a statement that like, if the government

4013
03:27:41,520 --> 03:27:43,440
Speaker 2: is able to go after you for this, they'll come

4014
03:27:43,480 --> 03:27:46,000
Speaker 2: after conservatives at some point. He's not wrong about I

4015
03:27:46,040 --> 03:27:49,000
Speaker 2: don't credit him doing that because of a serious moral thing.

4016
03:27:49,040 --> 03:27:51,400
Speaker 2: I credited him to be a relatively intelligent guy who

4017
03:27:51,440 --> 03:27:53,160
Speaker 2: was like, no, no, no, if they're able to do

4018
03:27:53,240 --> 03:27:56,280
Speaker 2: this to you know whatever, milktoast liberals, eventually it will

4019
03:27:56,320 --> 03:27:57,520
Speaker 2: happen to me, right.

4020
03:27:58,080 --> 03:28:01,000
Speaker 3: And specifically, like Pam Bondi is Turner General made some

4021
03:28:01,040 --> 03:28:03,360
Speaker 3: statements a few days ago about them going after quote

4022
03:28:03,400 --> 03:28:07,040
Speaker 3: unquote hate speech, yeah, which spawned a whole bunch of

4023
03:28:07,080 --> 03:28:10,800
Speaker 3: conservative commentators Steven Krawdertucker Carlson, as well as Matt Walsh.

4024
03:28:10,840 --> 03:28:12,440
Speaker 3: And under no circumstances do you have to hand up

4025
03:28:12,440 --> 03:28:16,680
Speaker 3: to Matt Walsh. But this prompted them to be like, no, actually,

4026
03:28:16,840 --> 03:28:19,840
Speaker 3: we don't believe in hate speech as a legitimate legal category.

4027
03:28:19,879 --> 03:28:22,440
Speaker 3: There should be social consequences for people who celebrate the

4028
03:28:22,480 --> 03:28:24,560
Speaker 3: murder of an innocent man, but there should not be

4029
03:28:24,680 --> 03:28:27,359
Speaker 3: legal consequences for hate speech.

4030
03:28:27,879 --> 03:28:28,080
Speaker 6: Right.

4031
03:28:28,520 --> 03:28:31,200
Speaker 3: We're fine with the government helping us like dos you

4032
03:28:31,600 --> 03:28:34,680
Speaker 3: and get you fired from your job, but prosecuting hate

4033
03:28:34,680 --> 03:28:36,600
Speaker 3: speech as a category is something that we do not

4034
03:28:36,920 --> 03:28:39,760
Speaker 3: agree with, and neither did Charlie Kirk. So there's been

4035
03:28:39,760 --> 03:28:42,640
Speaker 3: like that small reaction, which then prompted Pambondi to be like, no,

4036
03:28:42,840 --> 03:28:44,520
Speaker 3: when I say hate speech, what I really mean is

4037
03:28:44,560 --> 03:28:47,839
Speaker 3: like threats and assignment of violence, and like, yeah, okay.

4038
03:28:47,360 --> 03:28:50,400
Speaker 6: Fighting words, I think is a legal term, right, Like

4039
03:28:50,440 --> 03:28:51,520
Speaker 6: incitements to violence.

4040
03:28:51,640 --> 03:28:54,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, there's some stuff that's always been

4041
03:28:55,000 --> 03:28:59,000
Speaker 2: illegal and never been punished. For example, when conservatives I've

4042
03:28:59,000 --> 03:29:01,560
Speaker 2: been dealing with this for years, threatened to kill and

4043
03:29:01,680 --> 03:29:04,440
Speaker 2: rape activists and show up outside of their houses and

4044
03:29:04,520 --> 03:29:06,560
Speaker 2: harass them. As a general rule, the police don't do

4045
03:29:06,600 --> 03:29:09,760
Speaker 2: anything if those activists are on the left, right, even

4046
03:29:09,800 --> 03:29:12,000
Speaker 2: though that crosses the boundary into fighting words. However, they

4047
03:29:12,000 --> 03:29:16,520
Speaker 2: have legally could they choose not to, right, But if

4048
03:29:16,640 --> 03:29:18,520
Speaker 2: someone is out there saying in the wake of the

4049
03:29:18,600 --> 03:29:22,520
Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk shooting, I want to incite people to kill

4050
03:29:22,520 --> 03:29:24,920
Speaker 2: this person. That is illegal. You're not allowed to say

4051
03:29:25,000 --> 03:29:28,120
Speaker 2: I want to incite people to murder this person.

4052
03:29:28,440 --> 03:29:29,240
Speaker 6: That is a crime.

4053
03:29:29,320 --> 03:29:32,400
Speaker 2: If you're posting and saying that you have broken the law,

4054
03:29:32,920 --> 03:29:35,120
Speaker 2: they won't go after a conservative for doing that, but

4055
03:29:35,160 --> 03:29:38,960
Speaker 2: they'll go after you, right like. That is how things work,

4056
03:29:39,200 --> 03:29:43,000
Speaker 2: you know. However, we have seen people who have been

4057
03:29:43,520 --> 03:29:47,120
Speaker 2: attacked for speech that absolutely is not crossing the line

4058
03:29:47,120 --> 03:29:47,959
Speaker 2: into fighting words.

4059
03:29:48,080 --> 03:29:48,280
Speaker 3: Right.

4060
03:29:48,680 --> 03:29:51,480
Speaker 2: One of the better examples for this happened at Texas Tech.

4061
03:29:51,520 --> 03:29:51,880
Speaker 3: It happened.

4062
03:29:52,720 --> 03:29:54,400
Speaker 2: You've had variants of this happened at a couple of

4063
03:29:54,720 --> 03:29:59,360
Speaker 2: colleges all around the country. They're specifically at Texas Tech,

4064
03:29:59,400 --> 03:30:02,400
Speaker 2: which is, you know, one of Texas's kind of premiere

4065
03:30:02,800 --> 03:30:05,720
Speaker 2: state schools. There was a video of an incident on

4066
03:30:05,760 --> 03:30:09,840
Speaker 2: the day that Charlie Kirk was killed where a student

4067
03:30:10,160 --> 03:30:13,880
Speaker 2: scene jumping up and down, yelling profanity at a vigil

4068
03:30:14,080 --> 03:30:16,560
Speaker 2: in a free speech zone outside of a student union

4069
03:30:16,600 --> 03:30:20,520
Speaker 2: building on the campus, saying y'all, Homie dead, making fun

4070
03:30:20,640 --> 03:30:23,200
Speaker 2: of people who were mourning Kirk's death. At one point,

4071
03:30:23,240 --> 03:30:27,280
Speaker 2: she touched a guy's hat. The video of her went viral.

4072
03:30:27,760 --> 03:30:31,160
Speaker 2: Governor Greg Abbott called for her to be arrested and expelled.

4073
03:30:31,320 --> 03:30:34,240
Speaker 2: She was expelled immediately. She was arrested and charged with

4074
03:30:34,280 --> 03:30:38,080
Speaker 2: assault shortly thereafter. Her family has not made a statement.

4075
03:30:38,200 --> 03:30:40,760
Speaker 2: Very wisely, there's really nothing they could say that would

4076
03:30:40,840 --> 03:30:44,360
Speaker 2: be great at this point. There has been some pushback

4077
03:30:44,560 --> 03:30:48,640
Speaker 2: from student organizations in the state because this is blatantly illegal.

4078
03:30:49,280 --> 03:30:52,720
Speaker 2: Calling what she did assault is nonsense. In my opinion

4079
03:30:52,800 --> 03:30:55,960
Speaker 2: from watching the video, she was at a free speech zone,

4080
03:30:56,840 --> 03:31:00,920
Speaker 2: laughing y'all homely dead when someone is killed is no words.

4081
03:31:01,360 --> 03:31:04,720
Speaker 2: That is not illegal. You are allowed to say stuff

4082
03:31:04,800 --> 03:31:07,600
Speaker 2: like that under the letter of the law. Does this

4083
03:31:07,720 --> 03:31:11,320
Speaker 2: mean this person won't get convicted of a crime. It's Texas,

4084
03:31:11,440 --> 03:31:12,560
Speaker 2: and she's a black woman.

4085
03:31:12,640 --> 03:31:13,120
Speaker 3: She might.

4086
03:31:13,720 --> 03:31:17,840
Speaker 2: And this is very chilling. This is deeply concerning. This

4087
03:31:17,959 --> 03:31:21,040
Speaker 2: is not the only case. There's a universe, smaller university

4088
03:31:21,040 --> 03:31:24,519
Speaker 2: outside of Austin where again a student was videotaped celebrating

4089
03:31:24,520 --> 03:31:27,920
Speaker 2: individual for Kirk's death. That person was expelled as well.

4090
03:31:28,000 --> 03:31:30,720
Speaker 2: There have been a number of teachers fired. Obviously, stuff

4091
03:31:30,760 --> 03:31:32,760
Speaker 2: like this has been happening all over the country, right

4092
03:31:33,200 --> 03:31:36,160
Speaker 2: and this is deeply worrying. And even if even if

4093
03:31:36,240 --> 03:31:38,680
Speaker 2: the space of possibility closes on these people faster than

4094
03:31:38,720 --> 03:31:43,800
Speaker 2: they're expecting. If the crackdown on the Open Society Foundation

4095
03:31:43,879 --> 03:31:46,360
Speaker 2: doesn't happen, if this Antifa stuff doesn't go any further

4096
03:31:46,400 --> 03:31:48,720
Speaker 2: than the last time they've talked about going after Antifa,

4097
03:31:49,120 --> 03:31:52,400
Speaker 2: stuff like this is going to continue to happen, and

4098
03:31:52,440 --> 03:31:55,560
Speaker 2: it will only accelerate over the next couple of years, right,

4099
03:31:55,879 --> 03:31:58,119
Speaker 2: and that is a massive problem.

4100
03:31:58,320 --> 03:32:02,160
Speaker 3: Part of this culture shift can be seen in what

4101
03:32:02,560 --> 03:32:05,880
Speaker 3: some people are probably not very smartly calling the biggest

4102
03:32:05,920 --> 03:32:08,200
Speaker 3: attack on free speech they've ever seen in their life,

4103
03:32:08,520 --> 03:32:13,160
Speaker 3: which is on Wednesday evening, ABC put Jimmy Kimmel's show

4104
03:32:13,320 --> 03:32:17,000
Speaker 3: on hold quote unquote, indefinitely, following pressure from the FCC

4105
03:32:17,200 --> 03:32:21,360
Speaker 3: and affiliate stations owned by Nextstar. Before ABC's announcement next

4106
03:32:21,400 --> 03:32:24,119
Speaker 3: our release to statement quote, next Star's owned and partner

4107
03:32:24,120 --> 03:32:27,560
Speaker 3: television stations affiliated with the NBC Television Network will preempt

4108
03:32:27,720 --> 03:32:30,879
Speaker 3: Jimmy Kimmel Live for the foreseeable future, beginning with Tonight's show.

4109
03:32:30,879 --> 03:32:32,920
Speaker 3: Next to our strongly object to the recent comments made

4110
03:32:32,959 --> 03:32:35,160
Speaker 3: by mister Kimmel concerning the killing and Charlie Kirk, and

4111
03:32:35,160 --> 03:32:37,880
Speaker 3: will replace the show with other programming in its ABC

4112
03:32:37,959 --> 03:32:42,680
Speaker 3: affiliated markets unquote. Sinclair Broadcasting also stated it would not

4113
03:32:42,720 --> 03:32:45,560
Speaker 3: air Kimmel's show and called on Kimmel to apologize to

4114
03:32:45,600 --> 03:32:48,280
Speaker 3: the Kirk family and donate to the Kirk Family as

4115
03:32:48,320 --> 03:32:55,039
Speaker 3: well as TPUSA. Earlier that Wednesday, FCC Chairman Brendan Carr

4116
03:32:55,160 --> 03:32:59,560
Speaker 3: advocated on the conservative podcaster Benny Johnson's show, quote, it's

4117
03:32:59,680 --> 03:33:02,119
Speaker 3: really sort of past time that a lot of these

4118
03:33:02,160 --> 03:33:05,680
Speaker 3: licensed broadcasters themselves push back on Comcast Disney and say

4119
03:33:05,879 --> 03:33:07,920
Speaker 3: we are not going to run Kimmel anymore until you

4120
03:33:07,959 --> 03:33:10,800
Speaker 3: straighten this out, and we, the licensed broadcaster, are running

4121
03:33:10,879 --> 03:33:14,480
Speaker 3: the possibility of fines or license revocation from the SEC

4122
03:33:14,480 --> 03:33:16,959
Speaker 3: if we continue to run content that ends up being

4123
03:33:17,240 --> 03:33:21,240
Speaker 3: a pattern of news distortion un quote. Carr then made

4124
03:33:21,879 --> 03:33:26,040
Speaker 3: vague threats towards like direct FCC involvement, quote, we can

4125
03:33:26,080 --> 03:33:28,720
Speaker 3: do this easy way or the hard way. These companies

4126
03:33:28,959 --> 03:33:31,760
Speaker 3: can find ways to change conduct and take action frankly

4127
03:33:32,280 --> 03:33:35,120
Speaker 3: on Kimmel, or there's going to be additional work for

4128
03:33:35,160 --> 03:33:38,720
Speaker 3: the FCC ahead on quote. The SEC controls broadcast licenses

4129
03:33:38,720 --> 03:33:41,720
Speaker 3: for local TV channels, and next Star is planning a

4130
03:33:41,800 --> 03:33:45,600
Speaker 3: merger with Tegna, which requires SEC approval, and this is

4131
03:33:45,640 --> 03:33:48,720
Speaker 3: obviously a coerced attack on free speech.

4132
03:33:48,879 --> 03:33:53,040
Speaker 2: And we've seen a lot of people shows and whatnot

4133
03:33:53,080 --> 03:33:56,560
Speaker 2: getting polled and people speaking out getting in trouble because

4134
03:33:56,600 --> 03:33:59,039
Speaker 2: they're companies. They're trying to do a merger. Right, that's

4135
03:33:59,080 --> 03:33:59,520
Speaker 2: not new.

4136
03:34:00,120 --> 03:34:02,760
Speaker 3: Yes, this has happened with ABC already. This happened with

4137
03:34:02,840 --> 03:34:06,680
Speaker 3: a CBS and paramount. I think some people, including people

4138
03:34:06,720 --> 03:34:09,959
Speaker 3: on the right, are misunderstanding some of the circumstances of

4139
03:34:10,040 --> 03:34:13,039
Speaker 3: the firing or the being put on hold, as well

4140
03:34:13,080 --> 03:34:16,039
Speaker 3: as what, like Kimmel said, kim wasn't joking about or

4141
03:34:16,080 --> 03:34:21,040
Speaker 3: celebrating Kirk's death. What he did do is possibly like

4142
03:34:21,200 --> 03:34:25,320
Speaker 3: falsely insinuate that the shooter was Mega when evidence at

4143
03:34:25,360 --> 03:34:28,640
Speaker 3: the time pointed otherwise. Kimill said, quote, we hit some

4144
03:34:28,680 --> 03:34:31,520
Speaker 3: new lows over the weekend with the Mega Gang desperately

4145
03:34:31,760 --> 03:34:34,360
Speaker 3: trying to characterize the kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as

4146
03:34:34,360 --> 03:34:37,400
Speaker 3: anything other than one of them and doing everything they

4147
03:34:37,400 --> 03:34:40,120
Speaker 3: can to score political points from it. Quote. He then

4148
03:34:40,160 --> 03:34:41,959
Speaker 3: went on to tell a joke about how Trump did

4149
03:34:42,000 --> 03:34:44,880
Speaker 3: not seem very sad in the wake of Charlie Kirk's death,

4150
03:34:45,280 --> 03:34:48,800
Speaker 3: comparing the death to a goldfish in Trump's mind, that

4151
03:34:48,879 --> 03:34:51,400
Speaker 3: was the way the joke was framed. Yeah, so that's

4152
03:34:51,440 --> 03:34:54,879
Speaker 3: what kim Oll actually said. You can interpret that either way,

4153
03:34:54,920 --> 03:34:58,760
Speaker 3: whether he's just saying that megas are desperately trying to

4154
03:34:58,920 --> 03:35:01,480
Speaker 3: make it look like he's not one of them and

4155
03:35:01,520 --> 03:35:04,199
Speaker 3: scoring political points, or you can interpret it as Kimmel

4156
03:35:04,480 --> 03:35:07,640
Speaker 3: kind of insinuating that the shooter probably is mega. I

4157
03:35:07,840 --> 03:35:10,879
Speaker 3: don't know Kimmel's mind. I'm not sure what he exactly

4158
03:35:10,920 --> 03:35:14,520
Speaker 3: meant by that, But The Rolling Stone reported that sources

4159
03:35:14,600 --> 03:35:17,720
Speaker 3: told them the quote. Senior executives at ABC, its owner,

4160
03:35:17,760 --> 03:35:21,080
Speaker 3: Disney and affiliates convened emergency meetings to figure out how

4161
03:35:21,120 --> 03:35:24,000
Speaker 3: to minimize the damage. Multiple execs felt Kimmel had not

4162
03:35:24,040 --> 03:35:27,000
Speaker 3: actually said anything over the line, but the threat of

4163
03:35:27,160 --> 03:35:30,760
Speaker 3: Trump administration retaliation loomed unquote.

4164
03:35:31,240 --> 03:35:35,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is again, this is chilling, absolutely chilling speech.

4165
03:35:35,680 --> 03:35:38,360
Speaker 2: The things he said, we're not in line with the

4166
03:35:38,360 --> 03:35:40,520
Speaker 2: best available evidence at the time that he said them.

4167
03:35:40,680 --> 03:35:43,920
Speaker 2: But they weren't hate speech, they were not incitement to violence.

4168
03:35:44,000 --> 03:35:46,720
Speaker 2: There was nothing a league know about them. And again,

4169
03:35:46,840 --> 03:35:51,120
Speaker 2: you had a fucking right wing figure on television urging

4170
03:35:51,160 --> 03:35:53,480
Speaker 2: for homeless people to be executed.

4171
03:35:54,160 --> 03:35:58,720
Speaker 3: The involuntary lethal ejection to solve the homeless crisis. Quote,

4172
03:35:58,959 --> 03:36:00,920
Speaker 3: just kill them. He's not getting fired.

4173
03:36:01,080 --> 03:36:03,680
Speaker 2: No, he had to make a half assed apology, but

4174
03:36:03,720 --> 03:36:04,200
Speaker 2: that's it.

4175
03:36:04,440 --> 03:36:06,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, Like he had to pretend to be sorry.

4176
03:36:06,440 --> 03:36:08,360
Speaker 18: If I had a nickel for every time someone on

4177
03:36:08,480 --> 03:36:12,480
Speaker 18: Fox News said that like any mass shooter at all

4178
03:36:12,640 --> 03:36:15,120
Speaker 18: was linked to a trans person, Like none of my

4179
03:36:15,240 --> 03:36:18,680
Speaker 18: trans friends would ever be homeless. Again, Like they say

4180
03:36:18,720 --> 03:36:21,760
Speaker 18: this shit all the time and nothing happens, even though

4181
03:36:21,760 --> 03:36:24,360
Speaker 18: it is I mean literally just it is straight up

4182
03:36:24,400 --> 03:36:28,359
Speaker 18: tofammatory yep. And they say that shit constantly and nothing happens.

4183
03:36:28,360 --> 03:36:33,920
Speaker 18: And this is just a really pure, i mean example

4184
03:36:34,040 --> 03:36:37,480
Speaker 18: of just the latant political suppression of speech. And also

4185
03:36:37,600 --> 03:36:40,480
Speaker 18: this sort of like we talked about this with the mergers,

4186
03:36:40,560 --> 03:36:44,400
Speaker 18: is the structural problem with the way that like the

4187
03:36:44,400 --> 03:36:46,879
Speaker 18: American quote unquote free press is supposed to be structured,

4188
03:36:46,879 --> 03:36:51,040
Speaker 18: which is that they're all for profit companies. And because

4189
03:36:51,040 --> 03:36:52,920
Speaker 18: of that, all you need to do is just buy

4190
03:36:53,000 --> 03:36:55,720
Speaker 18: out or threaten their profit enough and they'll just fall

4191
03:36:55,760 --> 03:36:58,400
Speaker 18: in line. And that's what we've been watching with news

4192
03:36:58,440 --> 03:37:00,880
Speaker 18: outlet after news outlet for news outlet like firing anyone

4193
03:37:00,879 --> 03:37:02,320
Speaker 18: who said anything being about Kirk.

4194
03:37:02,760 --> 03:37:06,959
Speaker 3: Yep, I think with that that concludes our Charlie Kirk

4195
03:37:07,240 --> 03:37:11,800
Speaker 3: assassination aftermath discussion for now. But there is in fact

4196
03:37:11,840 --> 03:37:16,920
Speaker 3: other news this week happening. James, do you have stuff? Yeah,

4197
03:37:17,000 --> 03:37:19,879
Speaker 3: un Fortunately, I'm like I'm embracing myself. I know that

4198
03:37:19,959 --> 03:37:21,720
Speaker 3: James's news is never that good either.

4199
03:37:22,000 --> 03:37:24,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, so it was good news these days.

4200
03:37:25,600 --> 03:37:29,760
Speaker 3: Really the passport thing was killed, right, the Mark Rubio.

4201
03:37:30,000 --> 03:37:32,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there is some good news. Actually, there

4202
03:37:32,400 --> 03:37:34,720
Speaker 2: was a Senate bill, a writer on a bill that

4203
03:37:34,760 --> 03:37:38,279
Speaker 2: was introduced that would have given Marco Rubio the power

4204
03:37:38,400 --> 03:37:43,039
Speaker 2: to revoke passports for citizens for effectively political speech and

4205
03:37:43,080 --> 03:37:46,240
Speaker 2: the guys of speech protecting you know, quote unquote terrorists.

4206
03:37:46,959 --> 03:37:50,800
Speaker 2: That failed, like that was pulled by the sponsor, which

4207
03:37:50,840 --> 03:37:53,680
Speaker 2: is good. There was a backlash to it, and again

4208
03:37:54,200 --> 03:38:01,280
Speaker 2: when there's backlashes, that's that's good. Yeah yeah, yeah.

4209
03:38:00,600 --> 03:38:02,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's it's it's so annoying to have

4210
03:38:02,720 --> 03:38:04,880
Speaker 3: to like we all know that like pointing out the

4211
03:38:04,959 --> 03:38:08,640
Speaker 3: hypocrisy doesn't work as like a real strategy, but like

4212
03:38:09,360 --> 03:38:12,359
Speaker 3: there's if there's a way besides that to like actually

4213
03:38:12,920 --> 03:38:16,320
Speaker 3: channel resistance to these authoritarian and like speech chilling measures.

4214
03:38:16,480 --> 03:38:19,520
Speaker 3: Besides just smugly going like haha, the Party of free

4215
03:38:19,560 --> 03:38:23,400
Speaker 3: speech strikes again, which I understand how that's emotionally compelling,

4216
03:38:23,720 --> 03:38:25,800
Speaker 3: but no one cares. It's not going to stop them

4217
03:38:25,800 --> 03:38:27,320
Speaker 3: from taking away your free speech.

4218
03:38:27,600 --> 03:38:27,680
Speaker 17: No.

4219
03:38:28,120 --> 03:38:32,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, speaking of free speech, here's some free ads.

4220
03:38:32,400 --> 03:38:46,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, we are back. I don't worry, folks. It is

4221
03:38:46,840 --> 03:38:50,560
Speaker 6: all downhill from here. I'm afraid because things have not

4222
03:38:50,720 --> 03:38:54,959
Speaker 6: been good outside of the coverage and repercussions to the

4223
03:38:55,000 --> 03:38:58,160
Speaker 6: Charlie Kirk shooting. And to start with, I want us

4224
03:38:58,200 --> 03:39:00,600
Speaker 6: to talk about Ghana. And this is one stories that

4225
03:39:00,680 --> 03:39:03,880
Speaker 6: unfortunately has been kind of eclipsed this week, but it

4226
03:39:03,879 --> 03:39:05,560
Speaker 6: shouldn't be, so we're going to talk about it. So

4227
03:39:05,600 --> 03:39:08,920
Speaker 6: the United States has begun using Ghana as a pass

4228
03:39:09,080 --> 03:39:12,760
Speaker 6: through to send people back to other countries in West Africa.

4229
03:39:13,400 --> 03:39:17,640
Speaker 6: In international law, when somebody has protection from being sent

4230
03:39:17,760 --> 03:39:21,320
Speaker 6: to a place and you send them back via another place,

4231
03:39:21,560 --> 03:39:23,240
Speaker 6: that's called chain refoulment.

4232
03:39:23,560 --> 03:39:23,720
Speaker 3: Right.

4233
03:39:23,879 --> 03:39:25,640
Speaker 6: One could probably also pronounce that it's a bit where

4234
03:39:25,680 --> 03:39:28,480
Speaker 6: a French word, but I have decided not to. In

4235
03:39:28,520 --> 03:39:31,080
Speaker 6: this instance, they're sending people to Ghana when their home

4236
03:39:31,120 --> 03:39:33,640
Speaker 6: countries has been deemed to be too dangerous by a

4237
03:39:33,760 --> 03:39:37,640
Speaker 6: United States court, or they are unable to send them

4238
03:39:37,680 --> 03:39:40,680
Speaker 6: back to that country for some other reason. Right, people

4239
03:39:40,720 --> 03:39:43,400
Speaker 6: in this part of the world don't need visas to travel,

4240
03:39:43,560 --> 03:39:47,560
Speaker 6: so they can send them to neighboring countries without requiring

4241
03:39:47,760 --> 03:39:50,560
Speaker 6: like that, the Ghana can just bust them back, right,

4242
03:39:50,680 --> 03:39:54,400
Speaker 6: it doesn't require a great deal of paperwork. So a

4243
03:39:54,560 --> 03:39:57,600
Speaker 6: court has ordered the United States that there was an

4244
03:39:57,600 --> 03:40:01,440
Speaker 6: attempt right to secure protection for these people via them

4245
03:40:01,440 --> 03:40:04,720
Speaker 6: into a temporary restraining order to prevent them either being

4246
03:40:04,760 --> 03:40:06,800
Speaker 6: sent away. Some of them were in Ghana at the

4247
03:40:06,840 --> 03:40:08,800
Speaker 6: time the case was filed, right, so to prevent them

4248
03:40:08,800 --> 03:40:12,040
Speaker 6: being sent from Ghana to places where they may face,

4249
03:40:12,120 --> 03:40:15,440
Speaker 6: as we're about to hear, torture, death, pretty much the

4250
03:40:15,480 --> 03:40:18,840
Speaker 6: worst ship that can happen to people. So the court

4251
03:40:18,879 --> 03:40:21,480
Speaker 6: did order the United States to produce a document which

4252
03:40:21,520 --> 03:40:24,600
Speaker 6: details the exact nature of its agreement with Ghana. At

4253
03:40:24,600 --> 03:40:27,680
Speaker 6: the time I'm writing, the United States has not produced that.

4254
03:40:28,320 --> 03:40:32,200
Speaker 6: Ghanan sources have repeatedly suggested that one exists. Right in

4255
03:40:32,360 --> 03:40:38,800
Speaker 6: Ghanaian government press conferences and internal Ghanan news reporting, the

4256
03:40:38,959 --> 03:40:44,560
Speaker 6: case was bought by both Gambia and Nigerian citizens. Right, So,

4257
03:40:44,600 --> 03:40:47,040
Speaker 6: people who don't want to be returned to those countries

4258
03:40:47,600 --> 03:40:51,560
Speaker 6: in their attempt to obtain a restraining order. In one instance,

4259
03:40:51,720 --> 03:40:54,880
Speaker 6: one of the people who bought the case fled after

4260
03:40:55,000 --> 03:40:58,039
Speaker 6: torture by the police and military and was explicitly told

4261
03:40:58,320 --> 03:41:00,840
Speaker 6: that if he came back they would kill him. And

4262
03:41:00,840 --> 03:41:03,039
Speaker 6: what the US is doing here is using Ghana as

4263
03:41:03,040 --> 03:41:04,720
Speaker 6: a pass through to send him back.

4264
03:41:04,800 --> 03:41:05,000
Speaker 13: Right.

4265
03:41:05,760 --> 03:41:08,440
Speaker 6: Yeah. Some of them also detailed in the case they're

4266
03:41:08,480 --> 03:41:11,400
Speaker 6: transport They said they were in straight jackets for sixteen

4267
03:41:11,520 --> 03:41:15,400
Speaker 6: hours on the flight the US. Right, the government, the

4268
03:41:15,440 --> 03:41:18,279
Speaker 6: United States government in this instance has once again claimed

4269
03:41:18,320 --> 03:41:20,560
Speaker 6: that these people are out of its hands and it

4270
03:41:20,640 --> 03:41:23,800
Speaker 6: has no way of stopping the government of Ghana from

4271
03:41:23,840 --> 03:41:25,400
Speaker 6: sending them back to these other countries.

4272
03:41:25,480 --> 03:41:25,600
Speaker 3: Right.

4273
03:41:25,640 --> 03:41:27,440
Speaker 6: This is an argument that is attempted to make in

4274
03:41:27,480 --> 03:41:30,600
Speaker 6: several other instances. And I do just want to flag that,

4275
03:41:30,720 --> 03:41:34,800
Speaker 6: like this, use of third party countries for deportation has

4276
03:41:35,120 --> 03:41:38,760
Speaker 6: much increased under the Trump administration, But it was the

4277
03:41:38,800 --> 03:41:44,360
Speaker 6: Biden administration who begun funding Panamanian deportations right way before

4278
03:41:44,360 --> 03:41:48,000
Speaker 6: Donald Trump was even elected, and I have documented that

4279
03:41:48,040 --> 03:41:52,120
Speaker 6: extensively in my series on the Darien Gap. The court

4280
03:41:52,200 --> 03:41:54,920
Speaker 6: determined in this case that it didn't have the jurisdiction

4281
03:41:55,600 --> 03:41:58,320
Speaker 6: to grant the plaintiff's relief right, so that means that

4282
03:41:58,320 --> 03:42:00,600
Speaker 6: they're not able to get a restraining order. One of

4283
03:42:00,640 --> 03:42:02,840
Speaker 6: the people had actually already been returned to the place

4284
03:42:02,879 --> 03:42:06,640
Speaker 6: where they had a convention against torture protection from and

4285
03:42:06,760 --> 03:42:08,920
Speaker 6: was in hiding at the time. At the court case right,

4286
03:42:09,320 --> 03:42:12,000
Speaker 6: the judge said that the government's actions were part of

4287
03:42:12,080 --> 03:42:15,879
Speaker 6: a quoting here pattern and widespread effort to evade the

4288
03:42:15,920 --> 03:42:21,160
Speaker 6: government's legal obligations by doing indirectly what it cannot do directly.

4289
03:42:21,520 --> 03:42:23,920
Speaker 6: We are recording this on the eighteenth of September. It's

4290
03:42:23,959 --> 03:42:28,160
Speaker 6: a Thursday, and about fifteen minutes ago, another United States

4291
03:42:28,160 --> 03:42:31,400
Speaker 6: flight just landed in Ghana, so this practice appears to

4292
03:42:31,400 --> 03:42:34,080
Speaker 6: be ongoing. Secondly, what I want to talk about is

4293
03:42:34,760 --> 03:42:40,840
Speaker 6: sadly another shooting, the killing of Silverio Viegas Gonzales in Chicago.

4294
03:42:41,120 --> 03:42:44,080
Speaker 6: Diegos Gonzales was a thirty eight year old father, a

4295
03:42:44,120 --> 03:42:48,880
Speaker 6: Mexican national, and he was shot by either one or

4296
03:42:48,920 --> 03:42:52,720
Speaker 6: two ICE agents while driving away from them. An ICE

4297
03:42:52,720 --> 03:42:54,960
Speaker 6: state mclaim that he drove towards them and ended up

4298
03:42:55,040 --> 03:42:59,039
Speaker 6: dragging an agent a significant distance. Surveillan's camera footage at

4299
03:42:59,040 --> 03:43:02,720
Speaker 6: the scene shows one agent talking to Vegas Gonzales in

4300
03:43:02,760 --> 03:43:06,680
Speaker 6: his vehicle. We then see the vehicle reverse away from

4301
03:43:06,720 --> 03:43:10,200
Speaker 6: them and then move around them to the left when

4302
03:43:10,240 --> 03:43:13,720
Speaker 6: it sees a gap in traffic. The ICE agents have

4303
03:43:13,840 --> 03:43:16,640
Speaker 6: placed their vehicle, which is an SUV, in front of

4304
03:43:16,680 --> 03:43:19,560
Speaker 6: his vehicle, sort of cramping it into the curve right,

4305
03:43:19,600 --> 03:43:22,440
Speaker 6: so he has to reverse backwards and then move forward

4306
03:43:22,480 --> 03:43:25,760
Speaker 6: and to the left in order to try and drive away,

4307
03:43:25,800 --> 03:43:28,000
Speaker 6: which is what he's trying to do. Right. We can

4308
03:43:28,000 --> 03:43:30,480
Speaker 6: only see one of the officers in the footage. We

4309
03:43:30,520 --> 03:43:33,360
Speaker 6: see the other officer later in other footage. The officer

4310
03:43:33,360 --> 03:43:35,280
Speaker 6: in the footage does not appear to be dragged, but

4311
03:43:35,360 --> 03:43:39,879
Speaker 6: he appears to draw his weapon in by standard footage,

4312
03:43:39,959 --> 03:43:42,680
Speaker 6: we then see two officers pull vee Gas Gonzales from

4313
03:43:42,680 --> 03:43:48,400
Speaker 6: the vehicle and they begin administering first aid. We're just

4314
03:43:48,440 --> 03:43:50,160
Speaker 6: rewatching the footage now and you can see the other

4315
03:43:50,240 --> 03:43:51,840
Speaker 6: agent on the other side of the vehicle.

4316
03:43:52,040 --> 03:43:55,360
Speaker 3: This sounds very similar to the time that ICE shot

4317
03:43:55,440 --> 03:43:57,959
Speaker 3: at the car driving away just a few weeks ago.

4318
03:43:58,160 --> 03:44:03,240
Speaker 6: Sure, and Sam Bernardino absolutely, yeah. Generally, I have no

4319
03:44:03,320 --> 03:44:06,360
Speaker 6: idea of what rules ICE are operating under. It's not

4320
03:44:06,480 --> 03:44:09,120
Speaker 6: considered best practice to open fire a vehicle that is

4321
03:44:09,160 --> 03:44:12,360
Speaker 6: moving away from you unless it's actively endangering no, someone

4322
03:44:12,400 --> 03:44:13,400
Speaker 6: else's life, right.

4323
03:44:13,360 --> 03:44:16,200
Speaker 2: In part because even if it's endangering someone else's life,

4324
03:44:16,800 --> 03:44:21,120
Speaker 2: a handgun will not stop a car. Yeah, maybe you

4325
03:44:21,240 --> 03:44:24,400
Speaker 2: hit the driver, but the odds are just as good,

4326
03:44:24,440 --> 03:44:27,080
Speaker 2: if not much better. Then it goes through a window

4327
03:44:27,120 --> 03:44:31,320
Speaker 2: and remains lethal going past the car and endangering people's lives.

4328
03:44:31,959 --> 03:44:34,760
Speaker 18: And also it's worth mentioning on the other side of

4329
03:44:34,760 --> 03:44:36,760
Speaker 18: the car from the officer who we see draw his

4330
03:44:36,840 --> 03:44:40,520
Speaker 18: gun is the other agent. Yes, yeah, so if you're

4331
03:44:40,520 --> 03:44:45,439
Speaker 18: shooting at the car, you're shooting at your other agent.

4332
03:44:46,520 --> 03:44:50,240
Speaker 2: Guns don't stop cars, generally, unless you're killing a fifty

4333
03:44:50,280 --> 03:44:54,879
Speaker 2: caliber anti materiel rifle. Guns don't stop cars. Yeah, like

4334
03:44:55,800 --> 03:44:58,640
Speaker 2: they do stop people, but they but they keep bullets

4335
03:44:58,720 --> 03:45:00,959
Speaker 2: keep going when they mess. It's just bad. It's a

4336
03:45:00,959 --> 03:45:04,240
Speaker 2: bad thing to do. It's irresponsible, it's normal cap shit.

4337
03:45:04,840 --> 03:45:09,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, So what we see is at least two shots fired,

4338
03:45:09,920 --> 03:45:12,760
Speaker 6: and then we begin to see that then they leave

4339
03:45:12,840 --> 03:45:16,960
Speaker 6: the screen of the surveillance camera, right, so we don't

4340
03:45:17,000 --> 03:45:21,920
Speaker 6: see exactly like we're unable to see. I guess where

4341
03:45:21,920 --> 03:45:25,879
Speaker 6: those bullets impact the bystander. Footy Sen shows his vehicle

4342
03:45:25,920 --> 03:45:30,480
Speaker 6: crashed into the undercarriage of a large lorry like a truck, right,

4343
03:45:30,600 --> 03:45:34,680
Speaker 6: and he's hit that vehicle in a way that could

4344
03:45:34,760 --> 03:45:38,280
Speaker 6: also have been fatal, right, like the way that he's

4345
03:45:38,640 --> 03:45:40,520
Speaker 6: he's hit that vehicle, like the engine block of the

4346
03:45:40,560 --> 03:45:42,640
Speaker 6: car goes underneath, So it would be the driver who

4347
03:45:42,640 --> 03:45:46,039
Speaker 6: would take the main impact because the because the trailer

4348
03:45:46,200 --> 03:45:47,760
Speaker 6: is higher off the ground.

4349
03:45:47,840 --> 03:45:48,000
Speaker 21: Right.

4350
03:45:48,640 --> 03:45:52,520
Speaker 6: Hopefully that's making sense to people. Totally, He's traveled about

4351
03:45:52,560 --> 03:45:55,920
Speaker 6: one hundred feet in this time period. Unraveled Press have

4352
03:45:55,959 --> 03:45:58,000
Speaker 6: a pretty good account of this, if cobbled together. I

4353
03:45:58,000 --> 03:46:00,080
Speaker 6: think most of the open source video and also the

4354
03:46:00,160 --> 03:46:04,280
Speaker 6: surveillance video. There don't appear in those videos to be

4355
03:46:04,440 --> 03:46:08,120
Speaker 6: any other agents present, And when we see the agents

4356
03:46:08,160 --> 03:46:11,520
Speaker 6: rendering aid, none of them appears to be in the

4357
03:46:11,600 --> 03:46:13,680
Speaker 6: state someone would be had they been dragged by a

4358
03:46:13,680 --> 03:46:17,600
Speaker 6: fast moving car. Also, again, like with reference to shooting

4359
03:46:17,640 --> 03:46:19,680
Speaker 6: at a moving vehicle, if the moving vehicle is dragging

4360
03:46:19,720 --> 03:46:23,040
Speaker 6: your colleague, you're shooting also at your colleague if you

4361
03:46:23,040 --> 03:46:26,840
Speaker 6: shoot at the vehicle. So unfortunately, none of this changes

4362
03:46:26,920 --> 03:46:29,480
Speaker 6: the fact that this guy is now dead. Right, the

4363
03:46:29,520 --> 03:46:32,920
Speaker 6: Mexican Consulate has confirmed his age. They said he was

4364
03:46:32,959 --> 03:46:35,640
Speaker 6: working as a cook as his profession and that he

4365
03:46:35,720 --> 03:46:38,600
Speaker 6: was from michual punt The Consulate has been in touch

4366
03:46:38,680 --> 03:46:43,440
Speaker 6: with his family. Generally, I'm not familiar with this instance

4367
03:46:43,440 --> 03:46:46,680
Speaker 6: and what will happen. Generally, the Mexican Consulate will help

4368
03:46:46,800 --> 03:46:50,439
Speaker 6: with returning the remains of Mexican nationals to their families

4369
03:46:50,440 --> 03:46:55,959
Speaker 6: in Mexico. That's most of what I have on his death.

4370
03:46:56,000 --> 03:46:58,959
Speaker 6: It seems to have moved like very quickly through the

4371
03:46:59,000 --> 03:47:02,400
Speaker 6: news cycle, which is unfortunate because obviously you have children

4372
03:47:02,440 --> 03:47:04,280
Speaker 6: who have lost a father here like this. This is

4373
03:47:04,320 --> 03:47:08,400
Speaker 6: a tragedy too. Yeah, no, this is tragic. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

4374
03:47:08,520 --> 03:47:11,000
Speaker 6: you know. And I am sitting here haunted by the

4375
03:47:11,040 --> 03:47:14,560
Speaker 6: fact that they killed this guy two days after the

4376
03:47:14,680 --> 03:47:16,920
Speaker 6: Charlie Kirk shooting. I think most of the people who

4377
03:47:16,959 --> 03:47:19,199
Speaker 6: are listening to the show right now don't know this happened.

4378
03:47:19,600 --> 03:47:22,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, these agents aren't going to get prosecuted in the

4379
03:47:22,240 --> 03:47:24,640
Speaker 3: court of law for this, the same way that absolutely

4380
03:47:24,680 --> 03:47:25,920
Speaker 3: the Charlie kirkissas as will.

4381
03:47:26,600 --> 03:47:30,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, generally, like local there have been some cases, but

4382
03:47:30,800 --> 03:47:34,400
Speaker 6: I'm not really aware of any filed against border patrol agents. Generally,

4383
03:47:34,680 --> 03:47:39,880
Speaker 6: DHS has an agency which investigates like use of force incidents, right,

4384
03:47:39,959 --> 03:47:43,920
Speaker 6: and it is I will say it is extremely There

4385
03:47:43,959 --> 03:47:46,400
Speaker 6: have been times when agents have been charged.

4386
03:47:48,360 --> 03:47:53,120
Speaker 3: They are rare Stephen Miller's DHS that seems very unlikely.

4387
03:47:53,360 --> 03:47:55,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, Like I'm aware of some charges, for instance in

4388
03:47:55,760 --> 03:47:59,360
Speaker 6: San Diego, for agents who have allowed drugs to cross

4389
03:47:59,400 --> 03:47:59,760
Speaker 6: the border.

4390
03:48:00,280 --> 03:48:03,480
Speaker 18: Sure, it is pretty rare. Yeah, So let's let's talk

4391
03:48:03,480 --> 03:48:07,199
Speaker 18: about what ICE's occupation of Chicago has been. Like, Yeah,

4392
03:48:07,480 --> 03:48:11,360
Speaker 18: I kind of want to start with something that's been

4393
03:48:11,440 --> 03:48:13,560
Speaker 18: very frustrating, which is a lot of the way that

4394
03:48:13,680 --> 03:48:18,520
Speaker 18: Chicago has been discussed in the wake of Trump, like

4395
03:48:19,040 --> 03:48:23,760
Speaker 18: not deploying the National Guard. There has been about oh,

4396
03:48:23,800 --> 03:48:25,840
Speaker 18: if you resist trumpet will like you know, you can

4397
03:48:25,879 --> 03:48:29,480
Speaker 18: defeat him, and like that's true. But also ICE and

4398
03:48:29,520 --> 03:48:32,960
Speaker 18: Border Patrol are on the ground in Chicago as we're

4399
03:48:32,959 --> 03:48:35,320
Speaker 18: listening to this right now, dragging people from their homes.

4400
03:48:36,440 --> 03:48:41,440
Speaker 18: The raids have gone to a significant extent the way

4401
03:48:41,480 --> 03:48:43,039
Speaker 18: that we expected them to.

4402
03:48:44,240 --> 03:48:45,160
Speaker 3: They have been.

4403
03:48:45,760 --> 03:48:50,879
Speaker 18: Largely very very fast lightning raids. A lot of them

4404
03:48:50,920 --> 03:48:53,440
Speaker 18: have been an outlying part of Chicago land, which has

4405
03:48:53,480 --> 03:48:56,200
Speaker 18: been making it difficult to both track them and determine

4406
03:48:56,240 --> 03:48:59,680
Speaker 18: numbers because a lot of these parts of these massive

4407
03:48:59,800 --> 03:49:02,640
Speaker 18: high suburby we're going to talk about one later called

4408
03:49:02,680 --> 03:49:04,720
Speaker 18: Elgin then has one hundred thousand people in it, but

4409
03:49:04,720 --> 03:49:07,760
Speaker 18: also doesn't have the kind of I mean they have

4410
03:49:07,840 --> 03:49:10,320
Speaker 18: like local journalists, but they don't have like the kind

4411
03:49:10,360 --> 03:49:14,000
Speaker 18: of press corps that they like the City of Chicago

4412
03:49:14,040 --> 03:49:17,280
Speaker 18: proper has, and so documentation isn't much harder, which is

4413
03:49:17,320 --> 03:49:20,680
Speaker 18: part of why they've been striking out there. It's largely

4414
03:49:20,720 --> 03:49:24,920
Speaker 18: been Ice, but Border patrol has shown up, and part

4415
03:49:24,960 --> 03:49:28,080
Speaker 18: of the Border patrol appearing has been that this has

4416
03:49:28,120 --> 03:49:31,960
Speaker 18: also been a giant PR blitz for Trump administration officials,

4417
03:49:32,280 --> 03:49:34,560
Speaker 18: as the people at Unraveled have pointed out, and we'll

4418
03:49:34,600 --> 03:49:37,080
Speaker 18: be talking to them more next week about what things

4419
03:49:37,080 --> 03:49:41,640
Speaker 18: have been like on the ground. A senior Border Patrol official,

4420
03:49:42,040 --> 03:49:45,760
Speaker 18: Gregory Bovino, has claimed to we don't actually have like

4421
03:49:45,800 --> 03:49:48,040
Speaker 18: photograph everyone's in there, but he was posting on X

4422
03:49:48,160 --> 03:49:51,560
Speaker 18: that he was he went to Franklin Park, which is

4423
03:49:51,760 --> 03:49:55,840
Speaker 18: where Ice shot that guy a couple of days after

4424
03:49:55,880 --> 03:50:00,400
Speaker 18: the shooting. Okay, he has been releasing an entire higher

4425
03:50:00,440 --> 03:50:03,640
Speaker 18: stream of TikTok and X posts to sort of like

4426
03:50:03,760 --> 03:50:06,160
Speaker 18: advertise his presence in the city and doing this whole

4427
03:50:06,240 --> 03:50:08,000
Speaker 18: we did this in La or doing this here now

4428
03:50:08,040 --> 03:50:10,280
Speaker 18: thing on GMC. You don't talk a little bit about

4429
03:50:10,280 --> 03:50:10,680
Speaker 18: who he.

4430
03:50:10,640 --> 03:50:15,120
Speaker 6: Is, Yeah, I do so. Baveno was, at least until recently,

4431
03:50:15,880 --> 03:50:17,720
Speaker 6: he's appeared to be, as you say, working in Chicago.

4432
03:50:17,840 --> 03:50:21,720
Speaker 6: Now his Twitter now reads Commander op at Large CA

4433
03:50:22,160 --> 03:50:24,520
Speaker 6: Gregory K. Bavino. He was a chief patrol agent in

4434
03:50:24,520 --> 03:50:27,720
Speaker 6: the El Centro sector when we saw Operation Return to

4435
03:50:27,800 --> 03:50:30,760
Speaker 6: Sender right. Operation Return December was December of twenty twenty four.

4436
03:50:30,840 --> 03:50:34,800
Speaker 6: That's happened under the Biden administration. This was the first

4437
03:50:34,840 --> 03:50:37,760
Speaker 6: of these border patrol roving stops way north of the border,

4438
03:50:37,800 --> 03:50:43,000
Speaker 6: right up in the central Valley, stopping people in home depots,

4439
03:50:43,120 --> 03:50:48,080
Speaker 6: stopping people who appeared to be Latino Latina Latine on

4440
03:50:48,120 --> 03:50:51,760
Speaker 6: the street. I would say that cal Matters has had

4441
03:50:51,760 --> 03:50:53,680
Speaker 6: a really good coverage of that, and I can link

4442
03:50:53,720 --> 03:50:56,760
Speaker 6: it in the show notes. We also saw the deployment

4443
03:50:56,760 --> 03:50:59,160
Speaker 6: of border patrol to La Right, that was the El

4444
03:50:59,280 --> 03:51:02,280
Speaker 6: Centre Sectl't familiar with El Centro east of San Diego

4445
03:51:02,320 --> 03:51:05,200
Speaker 6: along the border right, it's sort of most of the

4446
03:51:05,240 --> 03:51:07,800
Speaker 6: way to Arizona if your driving from San Diego. He

4447
03:51:08,080 --> 03:51:10,040
Speaker 6: is really, like I would say, a man of the

4448
03:51:10,080 --> 03:51:13,360
Speaker 6: moment in terms of Trump's Border patrol, right, Like, border

4449
03:51:13,400 --> 03:51:16,200
Speaker 6: patrol is an agency that's changed a lot over the years.

4450
03:51:16,560 --> 03:51:18,360
Speaker 6: There was a time with border patrol recruiter from the

4451
03:51:18,400 --> 03:51:21,080
Speaker 6: Peace Corps. Now it's not that time. One thing that

4452
03:51:21,120 --> 03:51:26,120
Speaker 6: Bavino has been very good at in the sense of

4453
03:51:26,160 --> 03:51:28,840
Speaker 6: like doing what the administration wants from a border patrol

4454
03:51:28,880 --> 03:51:30,640
Speaker 6: agent right now is his use of social media. My

4455
03:51:30,720 --> 03:51:33,200
Speaker 6: understanding is that they have a whole team dedicated to

4456
03:51:33,240 --> 03:51:35,440
Speaker 6: this in the El Centro sector, right that they have

4457
03:51:35,600 --> 03:51:39,320
Speaker 6: videographers and photographers and such to make social media for

4458
03:51:39,360 --> 03:51:42,760
Speaker 6: the border patrol. And Bavina really seems to have been

4459
03:51:43,720 --> 03:51:47,280
Speaker 6: stepping up in importance, like he has this sort of

4460
03:51:47,440 --> 03:51:49,840
Speaker 6: he also cuts a very distinctive figure with this kind

4461
03:51:49,880 --> 03:51:53,680
Speaker 6: of crop side haircut, Like you can find a picture

4462
03:51:53,680 --> 03:51:54,640
Speaker 6: of his haircut on and I don't know how to

4463
03:51:54,680 --> 03:51:58,400
Speaker 6: describe it. His twetter brick picture shows him holding an

4464
03:51:58,640 --> 03:52:02,640
Speaker 6: ar with a low power variable octic like he is

4465
03:52:02,760 --> 03:52:07,880
Speaker 6: this new like like tactical aggressive, very aggressive social media

4466
03:52:07,920 --> 03:52:12,040
Speaker 6: presence border patrol officer. Right, And we've seen El Centro

4467
03:52:12,160 --> 03:52:15,400
Speaker 6: Border Patrol station specifically be at the forefront of a

4468
03:52:15,520 --> 03:52:18,840
Speaker 6: lot of these operations. As I said, even going back

4469
03:52:18,880 --> 03:52:23,120
Speaker 6: to the Biden era, if you're wondering, border patrol sectors

4470
03:52:23,640 --> 03:52:25,880
Speaker 6: are not just around the cities that they're named for, right,

4471
03:52:26,080 --> 03:52:28,000
Speaker 6: They can go a long way north. So it's the

4472
03:52:28,040 --> 03:52:30,680
Speaker 6: San Diego sector, the El Centro sector. These are not

4473
03:52:30,760 --> 03:52:33,560
Speaker 6: necessarily defined by places that you would recognize as being

4474
03:52:33,640 --> 03:52:36,080
Speaker 6: close to San Diego or El Centro, which is why

4475
03:52:36,200 --> 03:52:38,120
Speaker 6: you would have seen them operating as far north as

4476
03:52:38,120 --> 03:52:41,560
Speaker 6: Los Angeles. I'm not as familiar with northern border sectors,

4477
03:52:41,720 --> 03:52:43,920
Speaker 6: haven't spent as much time there, but I would imagine

4478
03:52:43,920 --> 03:52:46,440
Speaker 6: that there is a border patrol sector that pertains to

4479
03:52:46,480 --> 03:52:50,040
Speaker 6: the area that Chicago is in. So perhaps Bavino is

4480
03:52:50,080 --> 03:52:52,400
Speaker 6: now doing some kind of operational command for these urban

4481
03:52:52,440 --> 03:52:55,480
Speaker 6: things rather than working in that sector. I'm not entirely sure,

4482
03:52:55,520 --> 03:52:57,280
Speaker 6: but that's who he is.

4483
03:52:57,600 --> 03:52:59,880
Speaker 18: Yeah, and he's been, you know, he's been making it

4484
03:53:00,240 --> 03:53:03,640
Speaker 18: enormous deal of showing up in Chicago, and this has

4485
03:53:03,640 --> 03:53:07,440
Speaker 18: been something that's increasingly This is part of what it

4486
03:53:07,480 --> 03:53:09,880
Speaker 18: means for ice and Border patrol to show up in

4487
03:53:09,880 --> 03:53:16,720
Speaker 18: the cities. You get these fucking just absolutely hideous pr ops.

4488
03:53:16,840 --> 03:53:22,440
Speaker 18: On Tuesday, Kursy Nome, last scene shooting a dog, joined

4489
03:53:22,440 --> 03:53:26,360
Speaker 18: a raid in Elgin, which is a pretty far flung

4490
03:53:27,160 --> 03:53:29,840
Speaker 18: suburb of Chicago with about one hundred thousand people in it,

4491
03:53:30,680 --> 03:53:35,560
Speaker 18: and she showed up to do basically a pr junket

4492
03:53:36,080 --> 03:53:38,720
Speaker 18: at this raid at five in the morning in Elgin,

4493
03:53:38,840 --> 03:53:42,920
Speaker 18: where ICE arrived with helicopters. They blew up someone's door

4494
03:53:43,680 --> 03:53:46,000
Speaker 18: and they grabbed a bunch of people, and then they

4495
03:53:46,040 --> 03:53:48,440
Speaker 18: were forced to release two of the seven people they

4496
03:53:48,480 --> 03:53:51,160
Speaker 18: grabbed because they immediately turned out to be US citizens.

4497
03:53:52,000 --> 03:53:56,920
Speaker 18: Kurst has denied that they detained them and said that,

4498
03:53:57,000 --> 03:54:01,960
Speaker 18: oh no, actually we just separate raided them for their protection.

4499
03:54:02,120 --> 03:54:05,360
Speaker 18: What we did the operation like that doesn't seem to

4500
03:54:05,360 --> 03:54:08,840
Speaker 18: be true from everything that we've heard from witnesses the scene.

4501
03:54:09,520 --> 03:54:14,200
Speaker 18: But yeah, this is you know, these are the way

4502
03:54:14,200 --> 03:54:16,440
Speaker 18: that these enforcement operations, the way that these raids have

4503
03:54:16,600 --> 03:54:19,480
Speaker 18: gone is that the beginning of a major operation cycle

4504
03:54:19,520 --> 03:54:22,280
Speaker 18: is turned into these press circuits for people like Chursy Nome.

4505
03:54:22,800 --> 03:54:25,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, GNOME's been on a few raids like this. Has

4506
03:54:25,360 --> 03:54:27,640
Speaker 6: been a consistent thing, right that these raids are a

4507
03:54:27,720 --> 03:54:30,560
Speaker 6: content creation exercise. As much as the law enforcement word.

4508
03:54:30,720 --> 03:54:33,480
Speaker 2: Yes, and it excuse to dress up all that good stuff.

4509
03:54:33,560 --> 03:54:35,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know it. It's this.

4510
03:54:35,400 --> 03:54:38,560
Speaker 18: It's just like reveling both in this, you know, in

4511
03:54:38,600 --> 03:54:41,800
Speaker 18: this sort of like like constructed like I'm holding an

4512
03:54:41,800 --> 03:54:44,040
Speaker 18: Air fifteen lookout tough I am image, and also just

4513
03:54:44,160 --> 03:54:47,160
Speaker 18: in the cruelty and the suffering in the same way

4514
03:54:47,200 --> 03:54:51,400
Speaker 18: that the Alligator Alcatraz stuff was. But it's worth noting

4515
03:54:51,480 --> 03:54:53,480
Speaker 18: that most of the raids have not looked like this.

4516
03:54:53,760 --> 03:54:55,760
Speaker 18: Like this, this was a raid where like, you know,

4517
03:54:55,880 --> 03:54:59,920
Speaker 18: people were woken up in this basically this random ste

4518
03:55:00,640 --> 03:55:02,800
Speaker 18: at five in the morning because they heard an explosion

4519
03:55:02,840 --> 03:55:05,080
Speaker 18: and ice had blocked off all of their streets and

4520
03:55:05,080 --> 03:55:08,120
Speaker 18: their armored vehicles and helicopters. Most of what they've been

4521
03:55:08,240 --> 03:55:12,040
Speaker 18: are not like that. They've been following the pattern established

4522
03:55:12,040 --> 03:55:15,520
Speaker 18: in LA of very very rapid raids to avoid rep

4523
03:55:15,560 --> 03:55:20,480
Speaker 18: response networks, targeting a combination of houses, job sites, and

4524
03:55:20,760 --> 03:55:24,840
Speaker 18: places like home depot. And you know, we talked about

4525
03:55:24,960 --> 03:55:27,560
Speaker 18: this beginning a couple of weeks ago. We talked about

4526
03:55:27,600 --> 03:55:31,320
Speaker 18: how these people are being deployed largely from this naval

4527
03:55:31,360 --> 03:55:34,520
Speaker 18: base that is hours out from the city, right and

4528
03:55:34,560 --> 03:55:36,840
Speaker 18: that's part of why these a lot of these raids,

4529
03:55:36,840 --> 03:55:39,000
Speaker 18: although they have been going to the South Side, which

4530
03:55:39,040 --> 03:55:42,240
Speaker 18: is significantly far away, but a lot of these raids

4531
03:55:42,280 --> 03:55:44,840
Speaker 18: have been in places like Elgin that are further north

4532
03:55:44,920 --> 03:55:48,600
Speaker 18: and are more outlined because they are closer to this

4533
03:55:48,760 --> 03:55:52,280
Speaker 18: naval base than the core of the city of Chicago,

4534
03:55:53,080 --> 03:55:55,720
Speaker 18: and it's easier to do there because there's less resistance.

4535
03:55:55,840 --> 03:55:57,760
Speaker 18: There's been a bunch of raids in Elgin.

4536
03:55:58,000 --> 03:55:58,640
Speaker 7: They took.

4537
03:56:00,080 --> 03:56:03,480
Speaker 18: Didn't from a community college. They've just been dragging people

4538
03:56:03,520 --> 03:56:06,880
Speaker 18: from their homes and workplaces. There was a very very

4539
03:56:07,440 --> 03:56:10,000
Speaker 18: well publicized raid in Naperville, which is another sort of

4540
03:56:10,160 --> 03:56:13,480
Speaker 18: outlying suburb, where they'd grabbed people who are like fixing

4541
03:56:13,520 --> 03:56:14,240
Speaker 18: someone's roof.

4542
03:56:14,600 --> 03:56:17,000
Speaker 6: Was that the one where people remained on the roof?

4543
03:56:17,280 --> 03:56:19,680
Speaker 6: Yeah some time? Yeah, okay, yeah.

4544
03:56:19,560 --> 03:56:24,160
Speaker 18: Yeah, really horrible seeing people are extremely pissed off. There's

4545
03:56:24,200 --> 03:56:26,440
Speaker 18: another story that I's gotten very very little coverage that

4546
03:56:26,560 --> 03:56:30,000
Speaker 18: was horrifying in Displans, which is the suburb just north

4547
03:56:30,040 --> 03:56:34,320
Speaker 18: of O'Hare, where ice agents and masks did a very

4548
03:56:34,400 --> 03:56:36,360
Speaker 18: very standard thing that they've been doing. You know, this

4549
03:56:36,440 --> 03:56:38,240
Speaker 18: is I mean a kind of standard ice tactic where

4550
03:56:38,960 --> 03:56:41,680
Speaker 18: they wait for people to get back into a truck,

4551
03:56:41,720 --> 03:56:44,400
Speaker 18: and then they block the truck off with their trucks

4552
03:56:44,440 --> 03:56:46,720
Speaker 18: to prevent it from leaving. Yeah, and I'm going to

4553
03:56:46,800 --> 03:56:49,600
Speaker 18: read a CBS report of what happened next because I

4554
03:56:49,600 --> 03:56:52,000
Speaker 18: think it's important to understand what it is actually like

4555
03:56:52,080 --> 03:56:55,960
Speaker 18: for these people. Edgar, who's one of the people who

4556
03:56:56,160 --> 03:56:59,440
Speaker 18: was in the car, said that when the agent originally

4557
03:56:59,440 --> 03:57:02,040
Speaker 18: came to the path passenger door, he tried holding the

4558
03:57:02,040 --> 03:57:05,240
Speaker 18: door closed, preventing him from opening it. He said at

4559
03:57:05,280 --> 03:57:08,280
Speaker 18: the time that he and his family had no idea

4560
03:57:08,320 --> 03:57:11,800
Speaker 18: who was at the vehicle, and everyone was scared. When

4561
03:57:11,800 --> 03:57:14,560
Speaker 18: the agent tried opening the door, Edgar said he was

4562
03:57:14,640 --> 03:57:17,600
Speaker 18: tased in the face. That's when he told everyone in

4563
03:57:17,600 --> 03:57:20,400
Speaker 18: the truck to run for their lives. Despite being a

4564
03:57:20,480 --> 03:57:24,080
Speaker 18: US citizen, they ran out of fear. So what's happening

4565
03:57:24,080 --> 03:57:27,920
Speaker 18: here is there's these two brothers and their dad who

4566
03:57:27,960 --> 03:57:32,120
Speaker 18: is undocumented. The two brothers were born in Chicago, and

4567
03:57:32,920 --> 03:57:36,120
Speaker 18: they block off this car. They show up in masks.

4568
03:57:36,320 --> 03:57:38,360
Speaker 18: The people in the car have absolutely no idea who

4569
03:57:38,360 --> 03:57:41,440
Speaker 18: they are, and when they try to not get their

4570
03:57:41,440 --> 03:57:44,160
Speaker 18: car broken into, they tase this guy who was an

4571
03:57:44,160 --> 03:57:46,920
Speaker 18: American citizen in the face. He has to go to

4572
03:57:46,960 --> 03:57:50,560
Speaker 18: the hospital because they tased him in the face, right, Yeah,

4573
03:57:51,040 --> 03:57:55,440
Speaker 18: And there are stories like this, this is a particularly

4574
03:57:55,480 --> 03:57:57,240
Speaker 18: bad one, but there are stories like the rest of

4575
03:57:57,280 --> 03:57:59,680
Speaker 18: the raids that we've been talking about every single day

4576
03:58:00,480 --> 03:58:04,160
Speaker 18: in Chicago that do not break containments at all. In

4577
03:58:04,200 --> 03:58:07,960
Speaker 18: a country that is literally entirely just talking about Charlie Kirk.

4578
03:58:08,440 --> 03:58:11,200
Speaker 18: There are people being dragged from their homes, there are

4579
03:58:11,200 --> 03:58:13,560
Speaker 18: people being dragged from their fucking places of work, They're

4580
03:58:13,600 --> 03:58:18,400
Speaker 18: being dragged from their schools. And this is just what

4581
03:58:18,600 --> 03:58:23,960
Speaker 18: the US is right now now, as fucking unbelievably bleak

4582
03:58:24,080 --> 03:58:28,200
Speaker 18: as this is right, and people are terrified, but they're

4583
03:58:28,200 --> 03:58:31,560
Speaker 18: also angry, and people are also organizing, and as we

4584
03:58:31,600 --> 03:58:34,080
Speaker 18: saw in LA, people are forming rapid response networks and

4585
03:58:34,080 --> 03:58:37,080
Speaker 18: they're showing up in places that I never would have thought.

4586
03:58:38,040 --> 03:58:40,600
Speaker 18: I mean, maybe there'd be NGO networks, but they're doing

4587
03:58:40,640 --> 03:58:44,080
Speaker 18: things in places I just wouldn't have thought possible. I

4588
03:58:44,080 --> 03:58:45,760
Speaker 18: want to close this by there was a report on

4589
03:58:45,800 --> 03:58:51,040
Speaker 18: Thursday by Sean Molkay, who's the news editor at The Reader,

4590
03:58:51,080 --> 03:58:54,760
Speaker 18: which is a good independent outlet in Chicago. So I

4591
03:58:55,000 --> 03:58:59,040
Speaker 18: tried the same tactic of blockading someone's truck and grabbing

4592
03:58:59,080 --> 03:59:04,120
Speaker 18: them in a summer called Wheaton, Illinois, and a bunch

4593
03:59:04,120 --> 03:59:06,400
Speaker 18: of people when they tried to do this smash and

4594
03:59:06,440 --> 03:59:09,080
Speaker 18: grab of this person's truck, a whole bunch of people

4595
03:59:09,120 --> 03:59:12,000
Speaker 18: showed up and confronted them and screamed at them and

4596
03:59:12,040 --> 03:59:14,440
Speaker 18: recorded them. And this caused the Ice people to take

4597
03:59:14,440 --> 03:59:17,320
Speaker 18: off and run away without attending the person. And this

4598
03:59:17,440 --> 03:59:19,720
Speaker 18: is a stunning development if you know anything about either

4599
03:59:19,800 --> 03:59:24,360
Speaker 18: Chicago Land or evangelicalism. Wheaton is the home of Wheaton College,

4600
03:59:24,800 --> 03:59:27,000
Speaker 18: which is like it's one of like the three big

4601
03:59:27,080 --> 03:59:31,000
Speaker 18: right wing like Christian universities alongside like Brigham Young and Liberty.

4602
03:59:31,040 --> 03:59:32,640
Speaker 3: This is wild.

4603
03:59:32,880 --> 03:59:35,680
Speaker 18: This was one of the home bases of power of

4604
03:59:35,720 --> 03:59:39,320
Speaker 18: the Bush era moral majority, right like Wheaton College is

4605
03:59:39,320 --> 03:59:42,320
Speaker 18: a school where dancing was illegal until two thousand and three,

4606
03:59:42,480 --> 03:59:45,120
Speaker 18: like they abandoned dancing for one hundred and forty three years.

4607
03:59:45,840 --> 03:59:48,880
Speaker 18: And if people in Wheaton are showing up to do

4608
03:59:48,960 --> 03:59:53,680
Speaker 18: direct actions against Ice, these people, they're cooked right, They

4609
03:59:53,720 --> 03:59:55,440
Speaker 18: will be able to do a significant amount of damage.

4610
03:59:55,440 --> 03:59:57,160
Speaker 18: They have been doing significant amount of damage. We've just

4611
03:59:57,200 --> 03:59:58,960
Speaker 18: been talking about the amount of damage they've been doing.

4612
03:59:59,320 --> 04:00:02,000
Speaker 18: But if this is what is happening in places that

4613
04:00:02,160 --> 04:00:07,320
Speaker 18: used to be moral majority strongholds right, places that produce

4614
04:00:07,400 --> 04:00:10,720
Speaker 18: some of the most famous like Christian right wingers, who

4615
04:00:10,800 --> 04:00:15,520
Speaker 18: shaped an entire half century of American politics. If people

4616
04:00:15,720 --> 04:00:18,840
Speaker 18: there are showing up and doing direct actions against eisen Winning,

4617
04:00:19,320 --> 04:00:24,120
Speaker 18: things are fucking changing. People are radicalizing very quickly. And

4618
04:00:24,560 --> 04:00:27,240
Speaker 18: despite everything that's been happening by all of the kirkstuff,

4619
04:00:27,280 --> 04:00:31,520
Speaker 18: Trump's pulling keeps getting worse and worse. And I think

4620
04:00:31,560 --> 04:00:34,520
Speaker 18: this is a good reminder that, like these people, part

4621
04:00:34,560 --> 04:00:36,520
Speaker 18: of the reason they're moving so fast and so hard

4622
04:00:36,560 --> 04:00:39,440
Speaker 18: right now is because they know they are staggeringly unpopular

4623
04:00:39,880 --> 04:00:42,920
Speaker 18: and they have to get their crack down and they

4624
04:00:42,920 --> 04:00:45,520
Speaker 18: have to build a political and legal power right now

4625
04:00:45,920 --> 04:00:49,480
Speaker 18: before it gets even worse for them, and they're terrified that,

4626
04:00:49,720 --> 04:00:53,640
Speaker 18: you know, if there are a thousand Wheatns, if enough

4627
04:00:53,640 --> 04:00:58,760
Speaker 18: people resist them, they don't have the capacity to stop them.

4628
04:00:58,920 --> 04:01:02,240
Speaker 18: Because everybody fucking hates these people and they hate what

4629
04:01:02,280 --> 04:01:06,440
Speaker 18: they're doing. Nobody actually likes, you know, shock troopers showing

4630
04:01:06,520 --> 04:01:08,640
Speaker 18: up in the neighborhoods and dragging the people they love

4631
04:01:08,680 --> 04:01:12,560
Speaker 18: away from them. And it's going to be a really,

4632
04:01:12,720 --> 04:01:16,680
Speaker 18: really long and hard battle but the fact that people

4633
04:01:16,720 --> 04:01:19,280
Speaker 18: are fighting in places where that would have been unimaginable

4634
04:01:19,320 --> 04:01:23,920
Speaker 18: even ten years ago is I think at least a

4635
04:01:23,920 --> 04:01:26,000
Speaker 18: small sign of hope in the darkness.

4636
04:01:27,080 --> 04:01:30,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's probably where we ought to end. Is

4637
04:01:30,480 --> 04:01:32,160
Speaker 2: a small sign of hope in the darkness.

4638
04:01:33,120 --> 04:01:35,080
Speaker 6: If you would like to contact us, you can do

4639
04:01:35,200 --> 04:01:39,200
Speaker 6: so by using a proton mail email address cool Zone

4640
04:01:39,240 --> 04:01:43,600
Speaker 6: Tips at proton dot me. It's encrypted if you use

4641
04:01:43,640 --> 04:01:45,320
Speaker 6: an encrypted email address to send.

4642
04:01:46,120 --> 04:01:47,360
Speaker 3: We reported the news.

4643
04:01:48,560 --> 04:01:49,560
Speaker 7: We reported the news.

4644
04:01:56,320 --> 04:01:59,480
Speaker 2: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

4645
04:01:59,560 --> 04:02:01,480
Speaker 2: from now until the heat death of the Universe.

4646
04:02:02,200 --> 04:02:04,720
Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

4647
04:02:04,880 --> 04:02:07,960
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

4648
04:02:08,040 --> 04:02:11,600
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4649
04:02:11,680 --> 04:02:13,679
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever.

4650
04:02:13,400 --> 04:02:14,720
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4651
04:02:15,000 --> 04:02:16,880
Speaker 1: You can now find sources for It Could Happen here,

4652
04:02:16,960 --> 04:02:19,920
Speaker 1: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.