Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast, the questions ask if movies have.
Speaker 2: Women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
Speaker 2: or do they have individualism?
Speaker 1: It's the patriarchy, Zephyn. Best start changing with the Bechdel Cast.
Speaker 3: Jamie, I'm breaking up with you and giving you back
Speaker 3: the dildo you gave me.
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't care, or do I? Or do I?
Speaker 1: I think you do? Well, wait till you see me
Speaker 1: hanging out with Chekhov's co worker, battle show the hair model. Yes,
Speaker 1: Chekhov's hair model famously Welcome, Welcome to the Bechdel Cast,
Speaker 1: perfect intro, no.
Speaker 3: Notes, Yes, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: My name is Jamie Loftus.
Speaker 3: My name is Caitlin Derante. This is the Bechdel Cast,
Speaker 3: our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens,
Speaker 3: using the Bechdel Test as a jump off point. And
Speaker 3: it's actually the origins of which are particularly relevant to
Speaker 3: today's movie. Today's movie is Appropriate Behavior twenty fourteen, written
Speaker 3: and directed by Desiree Acavon. But Jamie tell us what
Speaker 3: the Bechdel test is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess we should do a full definition today
Speaker 1: because it is very relevant. The Bechel test is a
Speaker 1: media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, friend of
Speaker 1: the show Our Best Friend, I Wonder if she remembers us.
Speaker 1: The test is originally not intended to be a famous
Speaker 1: media metric. It was written as a one off joke
Speaker 1: in Alison Bechdel's iconic comics collection dis To Watch Out
Speaker 1: For in the nineteen eighties. The specific context of the
Speaker 1: original joke was that two women never spoke to each
Speaker 1: other in a movie, and the context of it was
Speaker 1: because Alison Bechdel and her friends wanted to see queer
Speaker 1: romance between women and non binary people in movies and
Speaker 1: there wasn't any that's very relevant to what we're talking
Speaker 1: about today. Eventually, on a longer timeline, it was sort
Speaker 1: of transformed into a more generic media metric. The version
Speaker 1: of the test we use requires that two characters of
Speaker 1: marginalized gender with names speak to each other about something
Speaker 1: other than a man for more than two meaningful lines
Speaker 1: of dialogue. And we're not going to have an issue
Speaker 1: with that today, don't you worry. I think that the
Speaker 1: backtales actually will not be coming up very much from
Speaker 1: here on out, but it is interacting with the origin
Speaker 1: in a kind of fun way, right, because the idea.
Speaker 3: Was that the characters indus to watch out for would
Speaker 3: if they saw two women speaking to each other in
Speaker 3: a movie about something other than a man. The characters
Speaker 3: could sort of like ship those two women together a
Speaker 3: tigh in their imaginations.
Speaker 1: The time where it's like women spoke to each other,
Speaker 1: they have to be in love, like if. We also
Speaker 1: shout out to the co creator because it often called
Speaker 1: the Bechdel Wallace Test. Liz Wallace co created the test
Speaker 1: with Alison Bechdel, and we learned on during our interview
Speaker 1: with Alison Bechdel that they met at a karate claus
Speaker 1: and didn't keep in touch. So I'm curious if Liz
Speaker 1: Wallace is even aware of this legacy.
Speaker 3: We should try to reach out to her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we had to start going to karate classes. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I hear.
Speaker 3: That's a great way to meet her. Indeed, so we're
Speaker 3: talking about appropriate behavior and we have a wonderful returning
Speaker 3: guest with us today. She is a podcast producer, comedian
Speaker 3: and you remember her from our episode on Blue Crush. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's Melody Kmalie.
Speaker 2: What's up, Salem? Aloha?
Speaker 3: D rude.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me back. That's Farsie too.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I last time I was here, you
Speaker 4: had just come off your recording with Alison Bechdel. Yeah,
Speaker 4: that's right, and you guys were riding high from that.
Speaker 4: I think she remembers you, and if anything, maybe just
Speaker 4: for like the Google alerts, the crossover in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she has Google alerts on. She probably hates to
Speaker 1: see us coming. Well, welcome back.
Speaker 4: Thank you for having me really pick the most relevant
Speaker 4: film possible as a bisexual Iranian American.
Speaker 2: I'm really excited to dive in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, tell us about your relationship with this.
Speaker 4: This too much of a relationship with this movie I did.
Speaker 4: I used to host a co host a podcast called
Speaker 4: Diking Out. We had desiree achumon on the podcast and
Speaker 4: it was like the peak of Quarantine and it was
Speaker 4: like just as like a lot of protests were breaking out.
Speaker 4: It was just like a very tense, weird time with
Speaker 4: the pandemic. And we asked her because we were fans
Speaker 4: of her, and she kind of was like, why do
Speaker 4: you like, I'm not promoting anything right now this Like
Speaker 4: I'm not in the middle of any project. I'm kind
Speaker 4: of sitting in my apartment just like everyone else. I'm like, perf,
Speaker 4: let's get intimate, and we tried to make it comfortable
Speaker 4: with her, and we all just ended up drinking in
Speaker 4: our little quarantines together. On the podcast, I am horrified
Speaker 4: thinking about it. I haven't listened back to it ever.
Speaker 4: It's out there, but we do bond over just all
Speaker 4: the parallels we had, because not only are we bisexually
Speaker 4: running Americans with immigrant parents, but we also, like in
Speaker 4: her show The Bisexual, I think thought we were lesbian
Speaker 4: first and then got like hetero curious and explored that.
Speaker 4: So just so many and more parallels come up in
Speaker 4: that conversation. It's like a weird version of myself, like
Speaker 4: a successful version of myself.
Speaker 2: I've been watching from a foreign admiring. I love her work.
Speaker 4: She directs a lot of like awesome film and TV episodes,
Speaker 4: a lot of Hacks episodes.
Speaker 2: You'll see her name Papa. But I just thinks she's
Speaker 2: so cool. Yeah, and yeah, that's the relationship.
Speaker 3: Nice. So did you see this movie when it first
Speaker 3: came out? Oh?
Speaker 4: Sorry, yeah, I remember at the time everyone was talking
Speaker 4: about this, like Persian Lena Dunham was what I was
Speaker 4: seeing online.
Speaker 1: Oh Ver twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, like.
Speaker 4: This had just come out like some film festival. It
Speaker 4: won Best Screenplay Word at some festival. Is very interested
Speaker 4: in it because there's representation now and it's so easy
Speaker 4: to connect and I was able to just interview her
Speaker 4: as a big fan of it. But back then it
Speaker 4: was like there was so much still like shrouded in mystery,
Speaker 4: like are there other voices like mine out there? And
Speaker 4: I was just so excited to find out she existed
Speaker 4: and bought it on iTunes or something and watched.
Speaker 2: It on my little MacBook. I loved it.
Speaker 4: I loved Lena Dunham at the time, and I think
Speaker 4: I was just obsessively like searching for stuff on her
Speaker 4: around Postgirls era.
Speaker 1: And then I think that this movie also got desiree
Speaker 1: akavan apart on Girls, because I guess, yeah, yeah, she
Speaker 1: had like a small arc.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she was one of the writers that it was
Speaker 4: like her corporate job or something I remember in Girls.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I had to go back and like rewatch a few
Speaker 1: scenes on YouTube, but I was like, yes, that is her.
Speaker 1: And I think it's because Lena Dunham saw this movie
Speaker 1: and was like, oh, we have the same vibe.
Speaker 4: Definitely, Yeah, how do we what do we call that vibe?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: It feels very I'm excited to dig into it because
Speaker 1: it feels very like specifically, this was a I don't know,
Speaker 1: I feel like the simplest is like difficult protagonist or
Speaker 1: like women actually not being perfect on screen and acting
Speaker 1: messy in a way that like, I don't know, if
Speaker 1: I put my twenty fourteen brain in, people like could
Speaker 1: not tolerate it, Like it was interesting looking back at
Speaker 1: like some of the reviews of this movie, and also
Speaker 1: because it felt so in conversation with girls and Lena
Speaker 1: Dunnam's new book came out, so everyone is sort of
Speaker 1: talking about it. It's just like the way that these
Speaker 1: these characters are very prevalent and also received in a
Speaker 1: weird way. I don't know, it was interesting to like
Speaker 1: go back there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I kept trying to put myself in the mindset
Speaker 4: because at the time it was like whoa pioneer alert, Like, yeah,
Speaker 4: they are unlikable, They're fucking up big time.
Speaker 3: Well, I think part of it is that there were
Speaker 3: like horny, sexually liberated women and people don't like that,
Speaker 3: and they like use humor to deflect, and people don't
Speaker 3: like it when women are funny.
Speaker 1: I was also thinking because it's like, at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, even though like sharing is a mess,
Speaker 1: like you do love her, but there I think that
Speaker 1: people also have like a real issue with watching a
Speaker 1: character who is a woman act kind of selfishly. I
Speaker 1: think that people still, like to this day, really struggle
Speaker 1: with a woman not acting in some like self sacrificing way.
Speaker 1: And yeah, in a way that I mean, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know. It's like, if we're going into the whole
Speaker 1: like girls thing, why do people hate characters like Sharien
Speaker 1: and Hand of Horror Bath but they love Don Draper.
Speaker 1: That whole sort of line of discussion of like men
Speaker 1: acting selfishly is iconic and amazing and women acting selfishly
Speaker 1: like inspires at the time a million like cruel takedowns
Speaker 1: in essay form, because that was what twenty fourteen was about.
Speaker 4: I just remember self absorbed, self absorbed, like everywhere.
Speaker 2: That term, and it was like or in an agency.
Speaker 4: I don't know, Yeah, that's so funny. I'm rewatching mad
Speaker 4: Men right now. Oh yeah, that is the perfect comparison.
Speaker 1: I mean, this show absolutely rocks, but you're just like,
Speaker 1: uh yeah, yeah, we didn't. To this day, some would
Speaker 1: say we have not gotten the chance to be selfish assholes.
Speaker 3: It's almost like there are double standards for men women.
Speaker 1: Now explore that.
Speaker 3: Wait, we should talk about that on the show. Wait okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: for the first time. Finally, after all these years, Jamie,
Speaker 3: what is your relationship slash history with this movie?
Speaker 1: I had not seen this movie, but I do consider myself,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna try this. A Desiree aka Van Desiree
Speaker 1: aka fan.
Speaker 3: Whoa, let's try.
Speaker 1: To create a community name. But I mean, I think
Speaker 1: she's so cool. Yeah, I've been wanting to see this
Speaker 1: for a long time. I saw her I think second movie,
Speaker 1: The Miseducation of Cameron Post, which is about Chloe Grace
Speaker 1: Morett's getting sent to a gay conversion camp that I
Speaker 1: thought was really good. And I'd seen her show The Bisexual,
Speaker 1: But for some reason, I just hadn't seen this and
Speaker 1: her I don't know. I admire her a lot. I
Speaker 1: want to, first of all, Melody, I want to find
Speaker 1: that podcast episode. I want to hear more interviews with her,
Speaker 1: because it's so cool that she has been able to
Speaker 1: create such a cool career for herself, and I just
Speaker 1: think it's really cool and this movie in particular, I
Speaker 1: was pleasantly surprised by so much about it and also
Speaker 1: that it was like kind of challenging me to turn
Speaker 1: on this character, and I was like, I will not.
Speaker 1: I will not turn on my good friend read even
Speaker 1: if she well, we'll talk about when she gets up
Speaker 1: to But I just loved this queer woman being messy.
Speaker 1: It's great, It's perfect. So yeah, it was. It was
Speaker 1: a really fun first watch. Yeah, Caitlyn, what about you?
Speaker 3: I had not seen this movie before, nor did I
Speaker 3: know about it. I didn't know about it until Melody.
Speaker 3: You and I were talking about potential movies for you
Speaker 3: to come on and cover, and you sent me I
Speaker 3: don't remember if you sent me a trailer for this
Speaker 3: or if you just mentioned it. But then I watched
Speaker 3: the trailer and I was like, oh my gosh, this
Speaker 3: seems like so much fun. I would love to I
Speaker 3: was like, even if we don't cover this movie, I'll
Speaker 3: just watch it anyway because it seems like such a
Speaker 3: fun movie.
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like people given like how I don't know,
Speaker 1: people should be talking about this movie more.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, I think it's not very well known, and I.
Speaker 4: Was surprised that you weren't aware of it when I
Speaker 4: emailed you the title, like I assumed you were.
Speaker 2: And then more people I talk about it too haven't
Speaker 2: seen it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the goodness. If you're a listener and have not
Speaker 1: yet seen the movie, it is very easy to stream.
Speaker 1: It is streaming for free in many places, so if
Speaker 1: you haven't it, get your shit together.
Speaker 3: It's accessible. So yeah, watched it for the first time
Speaker 3: to prep for this. I really enjoyed it. I also
Speaker 3: love that it's only an hour and twenty one minutes long.
Speaker 3: Please more movies like this. But yeah, I thought it
Speaker 3: was fun. I'm excited to talk about it. Yeah, soll
Speaker 3: we take a quick break and then we'll get into
Speaker 3: the recap. Let's do it, okay. Here is the story
Speaker 3: of Appropriate Behavior. We meet Sharene, played by Desiree Akovan,
Speaker 3: who is also the writer and director of the film.
Speaker 3: We meet her as she's packing up some of her
Speaker 3: things after a breakup from her now ex girlfriend Maxine
Speaker 3: played by Rebecca Henderson, including a strap on that Scharene
Speaker 3: had gifted her when they were still together, but Maxine
Speaker 3: makes Scharene take it back that makes it seem like
Speaker 3: it's gonna be a huge plot point. It's not.
Speaker 1: It's just sort of Dilda for the sake of dildo.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yah, yeah yeah yeah, And that's beautiful.
Speaker 3: There is a scene later on where Scharene finally because
Speaker 3: right after this she throws it away, but then immediately
Speaker 3: takes it back out of the trash, and then later
Speaker 3: on she throws it away for good, perhaps signaling that
Speaker 3: she's she's moving on from the breakup. But I'm getting
Speaker 3: ahead of myself. So then Scharene meets up with her
Speaker 3: friend Crystal to start trying to process the breakup because
Speaker 3: Scharene really wants to get back together with Maxine, though
Speaker 3: there is mention of their sex life sputtering out pretty quickly,
Speaker 3: like soon after they got together. And then we flash
Speaker 3: back to Charene and Maxine trying to do some sexy
Speaker 3: role playing, but Maxine isn't really into it. She says
Speaker 3: she's too vanilla. We'll get a bunch of flashbacks about
Speaker 3: their relationship over the course of this movie. Yes, back
Speaker 3: to the present, Sharene visits her family. We meet her
Speaker 3: mom and dad and urologist brother Ali played.
Speaker 1: Mister Hattie himself.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, Oh my god, played by Arian Moyed, who
Speaker 3: I recognize from Succession is the main thing I know
Speaker 3: him from.
Speaker 2: Yes, love him.
Speaker 1: Oh he's such a little bitch in Succession. I guess
Speaker 1: he is also such a little bitch in this movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's really good at that, I guess.
Speaker 3: Yeah. We also meet his girlfriend Ley, and Scharene and
Speaker 3: her brother Ali have a pretty contentious relationship. They're always
Speaker 3: making jabs at each other and judging each other for
Speaker 3: their life choices, and Scharene's also judging Lei Lee. Yeah,
Speaker 3: she makes a few jabs at their jobs. They're both doctors,
Speaker 3: but she's just like, you're losers, and then Allie retorts
Speaker 3: by saying that Sharene is wasting her master's degree in journalism.
Speaker 1: I loved this sibling specific of like masking disdain for
Speaker 1: your sibling with concern and being like, I'm really worried
Speaker 1: about her. She's such a fucking loser and it's great.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah. The subtext is she's making me look bad by
Speaker 3: being related to.
Speaker 1: Me, and also at the same time, like it feels
Speaker 1: like they're both kind of asking, like tacitly asking their
Speaker 1: parents to be like.
Speaker 3: Please say I'm your favorite.
Speaker 1: I'm the good kid, right, I'm the.
Speaker 4: Kid's very Persian, very sibling universal dynamic. But it's something
Speaker 4: so Persian about the masked concern and being like, I
Speaker 4: am the one that you trust, I am the golden child.
Speaker 4: But crazy of her to do it when she's working
Speaker 4: against a doctor as a as an artist a type,
Speaker 4: because that is a very real dynamic in Persian families.
Speaker 4: I am the artist loser and constantly being compared to siblings, cousins,
Speaker 4: et cetera, who went the doctor lawyer Persian route.
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, because Charene she was a journalist slash writer,
Speaker 3: and then she's pivoting. She wants to pivot careers, and
Speaker 3: we're about to get to what she kind of pivots
Speaker 3: to because she interviews for a job with this guy
Speaker 3: named Ken.
Speaker 1: Pete Horne Jump scare Yeah, yes it's played by Scott
Speaker 1: as did It of thirty Rock fame, for a job
Speaker 1: that is teaching an after school filmmaking class to teens
Speaker 1: or what Scharene thinks will be teens.
Speaker 3: He offers her the job, so that's her new job. Now. Meanwhile,
Speaker 3: Charene is scheming ways to bump into Maxine including trying
Speaker 3: to work the same shift as Maxine at the local
Speaker 3: food co op.
Speaker 1: She tries, she tries to sleep her way to the
Speaker 1: top of the co op, which is a very funny scene.
Speaker 3: I kind of wish that scene went on a little
Speaker 3: longer because you don't really get the reaction of the
Speaker 3: co op lady. But she's like Sharene's like unbuttoning her
Speaker 3: blouse being like, just let me work the shifts I want.
Speaker 4: I was assuming it was the Park Slope food co Op.
Speaker 4: There's an episode of Broad City where Abby and Alana
Speaker 4: are switching roles because like Abby can't work her shift
Speaker 4: at that co op and like she had they train
Speaker 4: each other in each other's mannerisms and like switch rolls
Speaker 4: for the day so she can work the ship for
Speaker 4: her I don't know, anyway, is the way they portray
Speaker 4: that same character in Broad City. It was like a
Speaker 4: very similar portrayal of this like no nonsense, like kind
Speaker 4: of butch like what do you want from me manager
Speaker 4: of the Park Slope co Op? And I'm like, what
Speaker 4: is going on there? I want to a nice trope.
Speaker 1: I do like something seemingly innocuous being run like the
Speaker 1: Navy that will usually work for me as a trope.
Speaker 3: Okay, So then Scharene's parents and brother help her move
Speaker 3: into a new apartment in Brooklyn, and it's starting to
Speaker 3: become clear that perhaps they do not know about Sharen's
Speaker 3: relationship with Maxine, or perhaps even that Charene likes women.
Speaker 1: And I was kind of taken off guard that her
Speaker 1: brother also didn't seem to know, because every I mean,
Speaker 1: it's like everyone, it's like, where's your boyfriend, where's your boyfriend?
Speaker 1: Where's your boyfriend. It's like, oh, her brother also doesn't know,
Speaker 1: so they're not close.
Speaker 3: It doesn't seem like it.
Speaker 1: Ye.
Speaker 3: We cut to Scharene at her new teaching job, and
Speaker 3: again she thought she would be teaching teenagers, but it
Speaker 3: turns out to be like five year olds and they're
Speaker 3: all boys, and they're all very unruly and chaotic, and
Speaker 3: she's in way over her head and she's trying to
Speaker 3: teach them filmmaking and like frame rates and stuff like that,
Speaker 3: and they're just like causing havoc. They're just like poop, poop, yeah, poop.
Speaker 3: Then we flash back to Sharin and Maxine meeting for
Speaker 3: the first time at a New Year's Eve party. They
Speaker 3: bond over both being haters and just hating a lot
Speaker 3: of things, and then they start making out within minutes
Speaker 3: of meeting. Sometime later, Sharene invites Maxine to a Persian
Speaker 3: New Year party, and it is confirmed here that Sharen's
Speaker 3: family does not know that she's bisexual. She mentions that
Speaker 3: gay people are stoned to death in Iran, where her
Speaker 3: entire family comes from, so she is reluctant to come
Speaker 3: out to her family.
Speaker 1: I'm backtrack really quick too. I think that the scene
Speaker 1: where Scharene first meets Maxine, their meet cute is so
Speaker 1: well written because you can tell you're like, oh, I
Speaker 1: can see why this is appealing, and this relationship is
Speaker 1: so clearly doomed from a moment, right. I've never seen
Speaker 1: that dynamic written quite so like real in a way
Speaker 1: that you're like, oh, these two are bad for each other.
Speaker 1: They're like, wow, your toxic and negative too. You're like, no,
Speaker 1: God's no, it's.
Speaker 3: Never gonna work out.
Speaker 2: That was well done.
Speaker 3: Yeah. But they get together nonetheless, and Maxine goes with
Speaker 3: Scharene to this Persian New Your's party and meets her family,
Speaker 3: but Maxine has to pretend to just be Scharene's platonic
Speaker 3: friend and not her girlfriend. Back in the present, Scharene
Speaker 3: is on okay Cupid looking for a post breakup distraction
Speaker 3: slash rebound. She meets a man, and this man cracked
Speaker 3: me up because he's like, I'm a stand up comedian
Speaker 3: slash folk musician. He's like, comedy shouldn't be mean, it
Speaker 3: should be nice. She's like ray, which I agree with,
Speaker 3: but he was so goofy I agree with.
Speaker 4: Like now, but in twenty fourteen, it was like stand
Speaker 4: up was having a boom, Like it was just like, yeah, comedy,
Speaker 4: I don't know. It's like there was a jadedness that
Speaker 4: he was like speaking to that I didn't think was
Speaker 4: there at the time in the comedy scene.
Speaker 3: Well, I was wondering. I was like, when was the
Speaker 3: height of like roast shows because I wonder if it
Speaker 3: was like round then they were.
Speaker 2: Encroaching on that time mid.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, because it's like also twenty fourteen would have
Speaker 1: been like peek Louis c k oh, jeez as woll
Speaker 1: true not to sorry to invoke Yeah, normally safe space,
Speaker 1: but that was who because I was also like, yeah,
Speaker 1: where was comedy at You're like, it's kind of a
Speaker 1: weird weird place. Yeah, you sure was. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Anyway, so she goes on this date with this guy.
Speaker 3: They hook up, but it's nothing special, especially compared to
Speaker 3: the flashback where Charene and Maxine are being super intimate,
Speaker 3: they're getting stoned together.
Speaker 1: They're being transphobic together.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll talk about we'll get to that.
Speaker 1: That was the thing that kept taking me out of
Speaker 1: it where because it keeps happening it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, several times. It's also in this scene when they're
Speaker 3: stone together, the Maxine tells a story that's ablest.
Speaker 2: So it's not perfect, but yeah, scene is not perfect, No.
Speaker 1: And it's it's tricky because it's one of those things
Speaker 1: where it's like you have to again, like you have
Speaker 1: to try to put yourself in your brain ten years ago,
Speaker 1: which is a weird amount of time to regress to
Speaker 1: and be like, is this meant to be making a
Speaker 1: point about how this character is unlikable or is this
Speaker 1: just how people felt comfortable talking at the time. And
Speaker 1: I think it's the last one.
Speaker 3: I agree.
Speaker 4: Yeah, from today's brain, it's like, well, Maxine needs to
Speaker 4: go on a gender journey, like Vaccine has some things to.
Speaker 1: Explore internalized issues.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yes, yeah, And then they also talk about
Speaker 3: how Maxine hates sex and the city, and then they
Speaker 3: talk about Lord of the Rings. So speaking to the
Speaker 3: Bechdel Test, they're talking about lots of stuff they're living.
Speaker 3: And then after all of this they share that they
Speaker 3: are falling in love with each other. We cut to
Speaker 3: Charene showing up at a meeting for a queer advocacy
Speaker 3: group that Maxine is at because Scharene's like again trying
Speaker 3: to bump into Maxine and she is not pleased to
Speaker 3: see Charene. So Scharene tries to make Maxine jealous by
Speaker 3: asking the leader of the group, this woman named Sasha,
Speaker 3: out for a drink.
Speaker 1: This scene, I'm excited to talk about it is there's
Speaker 1: so much going on in this scene.
Speaker 3: Oh the man in the background.
Speaker 1: There's a very serious issue being discussed, this rape, which
Speaker 1: is like but like that's that's a real thing, And like,
Speaker 1: I just thought that scene was so fascinating because she's
Speaker 1: just being he's being an absolute menace. Meanwhile, there's like
Speaker 1: a very i would imagine at the time and still
Speaker 1: underdiscussed issue around how queer people are demonized by the law,
Speaker 1: and you're just like there's so much happening here, right,
Speaker 1: It was wild, wild, and I feel like his story
Speaker 1: is there to play as a joke within the scene.
Speaker 1: I don't know, or at least that's how I kind
Speaker 1: of felt about it.
Speaker 3: But I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know, i'd be curious. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: think I ended up kind of giving this scene the
Speaker 1: benefit of the doubt, and it's just like an incredibly
Speaker 1: it felt messy in a way that was intentional to me,
Speaker 1: but I guess, if pressed, I couldn't tell you exactly
Speaker 1: what the intent was, So I don't know.
Speaker 4: I thought it was to like bring out just how
Speaker 4: much of a menace and like selfish person she was being.
Speaker 3: To because she's like blowing past yes man, telling this
Speaker 3: story really traumatic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was This was the scene where I was like,
Speaker 1: oh that, Like I did appreciate how hard in some sequences,
Speaker 1: desra Acaman seems to want to challenge you to turn
Speaker 1: on Charene because this scene, I think is as close
Speaker 1: as I got to being like fucking egg grow up girl.
Speaker 3: Yeah yes, Because so she asks Sasha out for a drink.
Speaker 3: Sasha agrees because she's put on the spot, but their
Speaker 3: little date is quite awkward, and Sasha politely declines when
Speaker 3: Scharene invites her back to Sharene's place. Meanwhile, Scharene is
Speaker 3: strong ruggling at work trying to teach these rambunctious five
Speaker 3: year old boys how to make a movie, and she
Speaker 3: meets her colleague, this woman named Tibet, who is teaching
Speaker 3: the advanced filmmaking class. All the students there are girls,
Speaker 3: and they are way better behaved and more artistically inclined
Speaker 3: than all of Sharene's students. We flash back to Charene's
Speaker 3: parents visiting her and Maxine at their shared one bedroom
Speaker 3: apartment and her dad, Sharine's dad, is like, why is
Speaker 3: there only one bed if the two of you live here?
Speaker 3: And Sharen is like, it's European and trendy and also
Speaker 3: it saves us a lot of money and their parents
Speaker 3: maybe believe it. I'm not sure, but Maxine is not
Speaker 3: happy about this. Charene not being out to her parents
Speaker 3: and them not knowing about her relationship with Maxine is
Speaker 3: really weighing on Maxine.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Back in the present, Sharene meets a couple at a
Speaker 3: bar who are looking for a third and so Sharene
Speaker 3: goes home with them. And they start having a threesome,
Speaker 3: but Sharene gets in her head and the mood kind
Speaker 3: of dies, and Sharene leaves well.
Speaker 1: And also the guy this motherfucker. Yeah, I hated him.
Speaker 1: The guy has an aura of menace and sinister, yes,
Speaker 1: very sinister. One of the many interesting little episodic moments,
Speaker 1: because these characters do not return, and you're just like, wonder,
Speaker 1: hope she's okay. Hope she's okay with her menacing husband
Speaker 1: wherever she is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, yeah, I hope she's able to. I forget
Speaker 3: their names. Marie I think is her name, Yeah, the
Speaker 3: woman in that couple. Yeah, hopefully Marie escapes. Yeah. But
Speaker 3: then we flash back to Charene and Maxine going to
Speaker 3: a party. I think it's like a Pride party.
Speaker 1: Wearing some of the most twenty twelve twenty thirteen yes fits. Anyways,
Speaker 1: I was like PTSD by the long tanks. You're like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, no, I won't go back.
Speaker 3: So at this party, there's like one straight guy who
Speaker 3: lost a bet to his sister or something like that,
Speaker 3: and there's another bout of anti transness here. But Maxine
Speaker 3: meets this guy and she's drunk and they start making
Speaker 3: out and Sharene walks in and sees them, so she
Speaker 3: gets very upset and Maxine begs for forgiveness, but it's
Speaker 3: it's all very messy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, using I think a very diabolical tactic, which is
Speaker 1: the phrase you have to forgive me.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, now no, you don't have to forgive anyone. No. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Cut back to the present, Charene and her friend Crystal
Speaker 3: go shopping for underwear. Because Charene barely has any sense,
Speaker 3: Maxine cut up most of hers, and then we flash
Speaker 3: back to the scene where Charene and Maxine break up,
Speaker 3: followed by Maxine cutting up all of Charene's underwear. Then
Speaker 3: we it seems like we kind of flash forward in
Speaker 3: time because now Charene is dating a man named John Francis.
Speaker 3: Maxine is dating a new person as well, and it
Speaker 3: seems like they've kind of agreed to meet up with
Speaker 3: each other and meet each other's partners and try to
Speaker 3: be friends. So they meet up at a dance club.
Speaker 3: It turns out that Maxine's new girlfriend is Tibet, Sharene's
Speaker 3: teacher colleague who we've met before Nor and Charene and
Speaker 3: Maxine start arguing and insulting each other and each other's partners,
Speaker 3: and then Charene storms off, but then she and Maxine
Speaker 3: have a tender moment in the bathroom. Then there is
Speaker 3: a screening of the short films that Charene in Tibet's
Speaker 3: students have made. Charene is humiliated by the film that
Speaker 3: her students have made because it's all about farts.
Speaker 1: I thought, I thought it was beautiful.
Speaker 2: And it was the non advanced class.
Speaker 4: They screened the advance to the girls and then it's like, oh,
Speaker 4: come on, yeah, beginner, I loved it.
Speaker 1: It's so cute.
Speaker 3: Anyways, and then Charene I don't know if she's worried
Speaker 3: about getting fired or what, but her boss Ken is like, no,
Speaker 3: farts are funny, and Scharene is like, yeah, farts are funny.
Speaker 1: So that's kind of the moral of the movie. Just kidding.
Speaker 1: It's kind of a random thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the thematic undercurrent. Also, I was thinking, I
Speaker 3: was like, how is Charene able to afford New York
Speaker 3: City rent when her job is a part time after
Speaker 3: school film teacher.
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, movie Magic Baby, the Rich Parents.
Speaker 4: There is a line where I forget what she says
Speaker 4: to her mom about needing to move into a new
Speaker 4: apartment and not saying why it was lesbian breakup, but
Speaker 4: she was like, we could have helped you. I think, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: my god, I assumed it was a bankrolled Brooklyn.
Speaker 3: Life probably yes, Okay. So then we cut to a
Speaker 3: party with Sharene's family. I think it's maybe another Persian
Speaker 3: New Year's party, yes, and Charene comes out as by
Speaker 3: to her brother. His reaction, we'll talk about it, because
Speaker 3: he handles a very poorly and then discourages her from
Speaker 3: coming out to their parents. But she's like, no, I
Speaker 3: have to start being honest about who I am.
Speaker 1: He's like, could you delay until after my wedding? I'm
Speaker 1: like this, motherfucker.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So later that night, Sharene comes out to her
Speaker 3: mom and tells her that she was in love with
Speaker 3: Maxine and in a relationship with her, but her mom
Speaker 3: completely dismisses it. She's in full denial and she just says, no,
Speaker 3: you are not gay, and then she like gets up
Speaker 3: and leaves. Despite this, it seems like Scharene's spirits are
Speaker 3: higher than usual. She tells her friend Crystal that she
Speaker 3: plans to talk to her mom about it again soon.
Speaker 3: Then she sees Maxine on the subway platform and they
Speaker 3: wave at each other and we get the impression that
Speaker 3: no matter what happens, Charene is gonna be okay.
Speaker 1: The end, it was very girl who is going to
Speaker 1: be okay? Shot at the end it was do you
Speaker 1: know that meme?
Speaker 3: Oh no, I don't.
Speaker 1: Oh it is, I'll send it to you. But it's
Speaker 1: making fun of sort of these ending shots of girl
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn who's looking around nodding, being like, you know what,
Speaker 1: Everything's gonna be okay for me, Like, because that is
Speaker 1: iconically how a million movies end. I love it.
Speaker 3: I feel like it's similar vibes to the trope of
Speaker 3: a teen girl going underwater in a swimming pool and
Speaker 3: having a like coming of age moment where she's just like, Wow,
Speaker 3: everything's different.
Speaker 1: Now. This is the twenty something meter version of that
Speaker 1: girl who is going to be okay. Wait, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: center to you.
Speaker 3: But let's take a quick break and then we'll come
Speaker 3: back to discuss. And we're back Melody. Is there any
Speaker 3: place you would like to start Guest's choice?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 4: I mean, obviously a lot going on with a run
Speaker 4: right now and Persian identity, especially in the diaspora, and
Speaker 4: I've been thinking about it a lot, rewatching a lot
Speaker 4: of different movies, reading books, and I do really appreciate
Speaker 4: the use of the Persian New Year and like no
Speaker 4: Ruse and then that jumping over the fire that we
Speaker 4: see in the beginning when she's struggling and then at
Speaker 4: the end when she's feeling empowered to come out to
Speaker 4: her family.
Speaker 2: There's so much.
Speaker 4: Going on there in those scenes. For it's called Chaharshambasuri,
Speaker 4: she explains in the movie, it's the Wednesday before No
Speaker 4: Ruz where there's like a little fire festival. You jump
Speaker 4: over fire to like cleanse yourself of what is no
Speaker 4: longer serving you in the past year and jump towards
Speaker 4: what will like enrich you, strengthen you.
Speaker 2: Embolden you, empower you in the upcoming year.
Speaker 4: And they didn't do it in the movie, but when
Speaker 4: you jump over the fires, you say something that translates
Speaker 4: to like my yellowness to you, your redness to me,
Speaker 4: and the yellow and red is like from the fire.
Speaker 4: Yellowness represents like sickness and what's not serving like the
Speaker 4: bad and redness is the strength to go after the
Speaker 4: all the newness and betterness in the new year.
Speaker 3: So you're releasing the yellowness and embracing the redness.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so love that that was included.
Speaker 4: That's a very important like tenant of Persian culture. No
Speaker 4: rus specific that it's like a fourteen day holiday, And
Speaker 4: there was just so much going on in those scenes
Speaker 4: with the Persians.
Speaker 2: It wasn't like a movie about coming out to me.
Speaker 4: It was about like, it's not like I'm going to
Speaker 4: tell my Persian parents, it's my whole Persian family knows,
Speaker 4: and everyone's avoiding it and pretending it's not there, which
Speaker 4: is in Persian culture just such a thing. There's a
Speaker 4: lot of just not addressing certain topics out of like
Speaker 4: politeness or like she says in the movie, Persians communicate
Speaker 4: through gossip. Like things aren't like addressed head on ever
Speaker 4: and are just danced around. So I just like felt
Speaker 4: a lot of that coming out of those scenes. And yeah,
Speaker 4: it was like a movie about like code switching.
Speaker 2: Essentially to me. So you really see a lot.
Speaker 4: Of that in those scenes, specifically when she's there with Maxine,
Speaker 4: going from her like Brooklyn like western vibe to her
Speaker 4: cousins and that insecurity you feel because it's so much
Speaker 4: comparison in Persian families, Like it's a lot of competition
Speaker 4: at least with those are I didn't really grow up
Speaker 4: in that like that there's a more affluent Persian dynamic
Speaker 4: that I think Desiree was raised in a different tax bracket,
Speaker 4: but it's.
Speaker 2: Still there to varying degrees.
Speaker 4: So I'd love the cultural ritual brought in, like all
Speaker 4: the themes she was struggling with, like throughout the movie
Speaker 4: in the greater like Brooklyn bubble and just like yeah,
Speaker 4: never being never fitting in but being like am I
Speaker 4: do they not want me? Or do they not want
Speaker 4: like do they need a different version of me?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean obviously so relatable. It's hard to
Speaker 4: be like impartial about it. Yep, yep, yep, perfectly nailed it, yep. Yeah,
Speaker 4: obviously I'm like, yeah, I love the Persian parts because
Speaker 4: right now I'm just like desperate for any positive Persian
Speaker 4: representation right now.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. Yeah, it does not exist very much in
Speaker 3: Western film. Yeah, it was. It was great.
Speaker 1: I was curious, I because I thought that the ending, Like,
Speaker 1: I mean, there are a lot of things about this
Speaker 1: movie that I was like, just like I didn't see
Speaker 1: coming because you know, you get used to the beats
Speaker 1: of a coming of age movie and this movie subverts
Speaker 1: a lot of those And at the end, I liked
Speaker 1: the kind of nuance presented by the end of the
Speaker 1: movie where it's so devastating to watch, you know, Sharene
Speaker 1: come out to her mom and have her mom just unable,
Speaker 1: like unwilling, well unwilling to receive that information, and I
Speaker 1: was like, how is she going to process this? And
Speaker 1: that seed at the end where she's like, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: try again in another month or so, or like presenting
Speaker 1: this as something that is like inherently unfair to her,
Speaker 1: but something that I know plenty of people who have
Speaker 1: had to go through that of like, this is going
Speaker 1: to be a process because I want a relationship with
Speaker 1: my family, and like that kind of exact shade of
Speaker 1: gray I don't think I'd ever seen in a movie
Speaker 1: before and not having it presented as like a failure
Speaker 1: but just like, you know, something unfair to Scharene because
Speaker 1: she has to deal with all of the internalized and
Speaker 1: externalized homophobia that her family and the world has. But
Speaker 1: also she's she loves her family and she wants them
Speaker 1: in her life and she wants to keep trying.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, because we get the sense that Maxine perhaps
Speaker 3: even one of the reasons they break up is because
Speaker 3: Sharene has not yet come out to her family, And
Speaker 3: then we learn that Maxine seems like when she came
Speaker 3: out to her family, she was completely ostracized, and so
Speaker 3: you would think maybe that Maxine would be a little
Speaker 3: bit more understanding then of like not wanting to come
Speaker 3: out to your family for fear of being disowned.
Speaker 1: But I also felt like with Maxine, and this is
Speaker 1: like again just gets it a lot of how like
Speaker 1: realistically messy and frustrating these characters can be. It almost
Speaker 1: felt like Maxine was doing the old school thing of like, well,
Speaker 1: I suffered, so you have to suffer, Yeah, in the
Speaker 1: way that like, I don't know, I feel like generationally
Speaker 1: that happens a lot of like, well, I was in
Speaker 1: crippling debt, so therefore I want you to be in
Speaker 1: crippling debt. And you're like, well, that wouldn't you want
Speaker 1: better for someone that you love? But I do feel
Speaker 1: like Maxine has a lot of you know, like stuff
Speaker 1: that she has yet to work through, and I think
Speaker 1: like had a hard time dealing with Charene, I mean
Speaker 1: understandably having a difficult time with having to pretend she
Speaker 1: Sharine's roommate. I know how painful that was event, especially
Speaker 1: where she's like, I'm too old for this shit is
Speaker 1: sort of the vibe I was getting. But yeah, that
Speaker 1: like she wasn't able to show Scharene the like empathy
Speaker 1: she deserved because she was still so wounded from what
Speaker 1: it happened to her.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and also, I mean again that was perhaps part
Speaker 3: of why they broke up, but also part of why
Speaker 3: they broke up is just that they weren't very compatible.
Speaker 3: Not all, Oh, there's no fixing.
Speaker 2: That, Jamie.
Speaker 4: You said there was a scene that you're like, oh,
Speaker 4: I can't wait to get into that, and I was
Speaker 4: trying to remember, oh what it was.
Speaker 1: That was the scene where Charene is stalking Maxine at
Speaker 1: the queer women meetup group. Oh yes, yeah, So I mean,
Speaker 1: if we want to go to that scene, that scene,
Speaker 1: I feel like, really boils down a lot of what
Speaker 1: makes us movies so specific is that Charene is being
Speaker 1: an absolute menace to society in this. So she's, first
Speaker 1: of all, you know, it's it's stalking when women do
Speaker 1: it too, she is stalking Maxine and being a weird creep.
Speaker 1: Maxine is upset, is like, get the hell out of here.
Speaker 1: And then Charen ends up, you know, trying to whatever
Speaker 1: dominate the situation by asking out the leader of the
Speaker 1: group to humiliate Maxine, which ends up humiliating Scharen on
Speaker 1: a longer timeline, which is very this movie. But in
Speaker 1: the background of that scene, there is a character, a
Speaker 1: gay man, talking about how and it's very specific the
Speaker 1: way he's talking about it too, that he has been
Speaker 1: labeled by law as a sex offender for decades because
Speaker 1: of a relationship that he had with a boy who
Speaker 1: was two years younger than him when he was I
Speaker 1: think it was like eighteen sixteen was the dynamic presented,
Speaker 1: and that the result of that is that he's been
Speaker 1: labeled as a sex offender for his entire adult life,
Speaker 1: which is genuinely something that happened and happens and specifically
Speaker 1: targets queer communities in order to make it. I mean,
Speaker 1: think of all of the ways in which your life
Speaker 1: is affected if you have to identify as a sex offender.
Speaker 1: It's harder to get a job, it's harder to get
Speaker 1: how housing is hard like it's it makes life impossible
Speaker 1: in all of these ways that if you are a
Speaker 1: sex offender, you know that there that's a very complicated discussion,
Speaker 1: but clearly like this character was targeted for being queer
Speaker 1: by the law and it has like ruined his life,
Speaker 1: and for some reason he wants to talk about it
Speaker 1: in a women's group, which is like, oh yeah, also
Speaker 1: because that's part of why he's like there, because he's
Speaker 1: talking about something he's very upset with, and I think,
Speaker 1: what's happening in the background. I watched this scene like
Speaker 1: four times because I was like, what's happening? I think
Speaker 1: that the woman leading the group is like totally valid
Speaker 1: this is a women's group, and he's like, well wait
Speaker 1: a second, Like it seems like he just really wants
Speaker 1: to be.
Speaker 2: Heard, but he's pleading.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's such a like really intense scene to be
Speaker 1: happening in the background of like kind of rom com
Speaker 1: hijinks in the foreground. It's rild.
Speaker 3: That's why I was like, what is the intention here?
Speaker 3: I could not get a handle on it. I thought
Speaker 3: it was just a like not gender specific, just a
Speaker 3: like a more general queer advocacy group, but that there's
Speaker 3: a different woman there who's like, I thought we were
Speaker 3: going to be talking about women's issues, so I also
Speaker 3: didn't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe I misunderstood I guess my interpre I thought that
Speaker 1: that line indicated that it was a women's group and
Speaker 1: that they're like, your issue is valid, but that's like
Speaker 1: not really what we're here to talk about. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just thought that scene was like fascinating. I don't
Speaker 1: really understand why it's there, but I think it was
Speaker 1: really interesting that it was.
Speaker 4: Yeah, when it starts, I'm like, oh, is this going
Speaker 4: to be about like identity performance?
Speaker 1: And right?
Speaker 4: I assumed, Like I remember, like my first time seeing it,
Speaker 4: I think I went into it being like, oh, this
Speaker 4: is going to be about how she's not queer enough
Speaker 4: for the gay group and not like or too queer
Speaker 4: for her family and like those differences. But watching it
Speaker 4: around this time, I no longer know.
Speaker 2: I don't but I love it.
Speaker 3: I don't know what to make of it. Okay, and
Speaker 3: sorry to invoke another horrible thing, but there's this kind
Speaker 3: of a similar scene in the forty year Old Virgin Okay, where.
Speaker 1: I love that you apologize for bringing up the forty
Speaker 1: year old.
Speaker 3: It is it's it's traumatic. There's a scene where Steve
Speaker 3: Carrell's character takes Catherine Keener's daughter to a group for
Speaker 3: I think like teens and their parents who want to
Speaker 3: talk about like sex and birth control, and it's something
Speaker 3: like that, and the folk is the two of them,
Speaker 3: Steve Carell and the daughter, but then there's like other
Speaker 3: people in the background. And maybe I'm just kind of
Speaker 3: conditioned to think that the other people in a scene
Speaker 3: like this in a comedy movie, whatever they're saying is
Speaker 3: is gonna be comedy or it's gonna be played as
Speaker 3: a joke because the other characters in that scene are
Speaker 3: talking about whatever, whatever's happening. I don't remember the specifics,
Speaker 3: but it's like it's all it's pretty much played as
Speaker 3: a joke. So that's why I was like, well, is
Speaker 3: this scene inappropriate behavior also intended to be a joke
Speaker 3: because the juxtaposition between the two things that are happening,
Speaker 3: like the disparity and the tone.
Speaker 1: Is so severe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just like, what is going on? Yeah, I
Speaker 3: don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's like and it kind of like it feels very
Speaker 1: kind of in conversation with girls in that way to
Speaker 1: me where like I feel like it's just it is
Speaker 1: like such a weird dissonance. I don't know why it's there.
Speaker 1: It's kind of interesting that it is. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I guess like I didn't view that, and I maybe
Speaker 1: I'm I don't know why I feel this way. I
Speaker 1: didn't view that seemed to be antagonistic towards the man pleading,
Speaker 1: but I just felt like tonally it was weird. There
Speaker 1: were other moments where the movie did feel antagonistic in
Speaker 1: a way that cross lines for me, which mainly, as
Speaker 1: we have already alluded to, is the like casual transphobia
Speaker 1: that comes up a weird amount of times that I'm
Speaker 1: you know, I want to believe if you know, if
Speaker 1: she was making this movie now, would not be there.
Speaker 2: But I don't think so.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was an Obama era, like this girl doesn't
Speaker 4: care about being politically correct. Yeah, I like that kind
Speaker 4: of vibe.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out what to compare it to.
Speaker 4: I keep going to the ironic racism in thirty Rock,
Speaker 4: but I don't I.
Speaker 1: Mean, I think that that's a good comp And then
Speaker 1: I'm also thinking, like if this is like the Louis C.
Speaker 1: K peak era, like it kind of feels in step
Speaker 1: with that of like I'm not afraid to say it,
Speaker 1: like when it's like, well maybe you should be a
Speaker 1: fruit hate speech.
Speaker 3: Wrong. Yeah, I mean I feel like this was also
Speaker 3: a time in history, and thankfully it's not quite like
Speaker 3: this anymore, but where even within the queer community, CIS
Speaker 3: queer people, they just had antagonism toward trans people ka
Speaker 3: And so I don't know if it's if we're seeing
Speaker 3: kind of traces of that here, but yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 3: don't even know if we want to go into the
Speaker 3: specifics of what happens, because I clocked three different instances
Speaker 3: of anti trans sentiments.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't even really want to repeat it
Speaker 1: because it's like, it's not plot rele anything that's said.
Speaker 1: It's just like casual turfiness, usually from Maxine, which made
Speaker 1: melody that made me, Yeah, I was like, what is
Speaker 1: this hyperfixation, Maxine? What's going on? I don't know, but yeah,
Speaker 1: Maxine confirmed turf right.
Speaker 3: But also perhaps closeted non binary person question Mark. We
Speaker 3: we don't know we should ask her.
Speaker 4: Except yeah, wa DMA, we didn't touch on this when
Speaker 4: we talked to her.
Speaker 2: You're drunk.
Speaker 3: I mean, I feel like we're getting the things that
Speaker 3: are maybe not so great about the movie out of
Speaker 3: the way first, because there's a lot I do really
Speaker 3: like about this movie. I think there's a lot it's
Speaker 3: doing well and the interesting ways that it handles different things.
Speaker 3: I mean, I love a movie about a woman. It's
Speaker 3: not necessarily that she's exploring her queer sexuality or in
Speaker 3: the sense that she's not. She's like, am I queer?
Speaker 3: Like I have to figure this out? She's already figured
Speaker 3: it out for the most part, it seems, so now
Speaker 3: it's more about like figuring out what specifically she's into,
Speaker 3: because it seems like there's like kink things that she
Speaker 3: likes that she's trying to explore. You know, she has
Speaker 3: this threesome for the first time, she has sex with
Speaker 3: that stand up comedian slash folk artist, where she's like,
Speaker 3: that is.
Speaker 5: Kay, oh yeah, okay, that is okay okay, but humiliation no,
Speaker 5: but she tells him to be rough with her, so yeah.
Speaker 3: And then she's also grappling with how when if do
Speaker 3: I come out to my parents? And as we were
Speaker 3: talking about already a little bit, she describes it as
Speaker 3: a process and she's she says to like vaccine. She's
Speaker 3: just like, it's a process and I'm working on it.
Speaker 3: And Maxine doesn't like the timeline that Sharene is on
Speaker 3: and it culminates in the end of their relationship. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I just I like the different ways in which she's
Speaker 3: It also seems like she's trying to figure out because
Speaker 3: at least in the context of this and like the
Speaker 3: scope of this story, she seems to be gravitating more
Speaker 3: toward women than men, where like that threesome, for example,
Speaker 3: she's really into the woman and the guy. She's like,
Speaker 3: get away from the scenes where she's like trying to
Speaker 3: lightly kiss him, and you can just tell that she
Speaker 3: like she's like, oh, yeah, does this guy have to
Speaker 3: be here?
Speaker 1: And her flamer. His vibes are rancid.
Speaker 2: They really are scary.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, I just I love to see a
Speaker 3: sexually liberated, horny woman having a bunch of sex.
Speaker 4: Yeah, especially one from the Islamic Republic of e Run.
Speaker 4: I thought that was interesting, just her like hammering home
Speaker 4: the environment her parents are from. But then at the
Speaker 4: same time, I was curious because, like a lot of
Speaker 4: at least my parents are pretty progressive that's why they
Speaker 4: left Iran. And a lot of Iranians are Muslim for sure,
Speaker 4: but like reject Islamic law and this like kind of
Speaker 4: theocratic fascism.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I found that interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just felt like with her family and with
Speaker 4: the queer community with it was just like here I am,
Speaker 4: I'm too much and not enough at the same time,
Speaker 4: like I don't like, I'm trying to find where I
Speaker 4: am on this like spectrum of being in both communities.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and also like with regards to like by representation,
Speaker 1: which is like such a huge theme in Desira Akovan's work.
Speaker 1: Watched The Bisexual. Yes, it's so good. I think it was.
Speaker 1: It was only bb see for some reason. I don't
Speaker 1: know she gets into that, I.
Speaker 2: Will say on the episode, but behind this is on
Speaker 2: that interesting.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, well we gotta listen. Yeah, we'll let you
Speaker 1: know I've been.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll let you know how your podcast episode.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, wouldn't that be amazing if someone would
Speaker 1: just listen to your podcast for you, so you never
Speaker 1: need to hear your own voice.
Speaker 2: That's my dream, the worst.
Speaker 1: But but just like I think nails down in a
Speaker 1: way that is still unusual now so certainly would have
Speaker 1: been unusual in twenty fourteen. Like I love that Sharene.
Speaker 1: She is not confident in all ways, but she is
Speaker 1: she knows what her sexuality is. Anne is continuing to
Speaker 1: explore it at the beginning of the movie, where I
Speaker 1: feel like there's so many by narratives that I mean,
Speaker 1: either the worst of them are like gely coded right,
Speaker 1: They're like she doesn't know what she wants, and what
Speaker 1: she wants is bun afflex cock, like like a world
Speaker 1: that like cannot conceive of a confident by sexual or
Speaker 1: like I'm trying to think of an example here, but
Speaker 1: or like the whole movie is about navigating realizing you're by,
Speaker 1: and I just feel like it's rare to have someone
Speaker 1: who knows that they're by and is like a mess
Speaker 1: in all these other very human ways at the beginning
Speaker 1: of the movie and remains that way throughout, and that
Speaker 1: there's so many shades of pushback on her identity, specifically
Speaker 1: as by inside and outside of the queer community, where
Speaker 1: like her brother, even though it's like a brief exchange,
Speaker 1: clearly does not understand or like kind of rejects the
Speaker 1: label that she's presenting like he doesn't understand what being bias.
Speaker 1: He's like, okay, so are you gay or not? Sort
Speaker 1: of seemed like the energy he said.
Speaker 3: She says I'm bisexual, and he's like, so that's a thing.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 3: Is this like he didn't even know or he thought
Speaker 3: he heard about it and thought it was fake because
Speaker 3: that was also that's a widespread sentiment for a very
Speaker 3: long time that people who were by.
Speaker 1: Still act that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, and that
Speaker 1: it also comes from Maxine. I thought was interesting and
Speaker 1: telling too, where like when they're breaking up and you know,
Speaker 1: to some extent, I'm sure that Maxine is just saying
Speaker 1: it would say anything to hurt her in this moment,
Speaker 1: but says, oh, it was probably just a phase anyways,
Speaker 1: which is like one of the one of the classics.
Speaker 3: One of the classics. Her brother also calls her sexually confused. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like it's just it runs the gambit of is a
Speaker 3: gambit or gamut?
Speaker 1: I never think gamit.
Speaker 3: I don't know, Okay, we don't know. But anyway, he's
Speaker 3: saying a lot of shit that we've all heard yeah before,
Speaker 3: But I love that that doesn't discourage her from moving
Speaker 3: forward with attempting to come out to her parents or
Speaker 3: her mom at least.
Speaker 1: Yeah, none of it like makes her waiver in her identity,
Speaker 1: but it is like a source of constant frustration, which
Speaker 1: felt a very like real and I don't know, just
Speaker 1: in the way that you don't see a lot of
Speaker 1: marginalized people with marginalized identities just be like people. I
Speaker 1: appreciated that about Sharen in this where it's like, yes,
Speaker 1: she well, I mean she is. I guess she is
Speaker 1: kind of an iconic, messy bisexual, therefore playing into the
Speaker 1: troph for rev. But I didn't care. I didn't care.
Speaker 1: I'll say it me either. Another thing I wanted to
Speaker 1: talk about was Sharen's relationship with her body, and like
Speaker 1: Desiree akavon writing and performing nudity in the movie, I
Speaker 1: appreciate that that's happening on her terms as the writer, director,
Speaker 1: and actor in these scenes. I appreciate the representation of
Speaker 1: a slightly different body type than we typically see when
Speaker 1: we see a naked woman during a sex scene in
Speaker 1: a movie, because they usually look like victorious secret models. Obviously,
Speaker 1: Desiree Acovan is incredibly attractive, but you know she has
Speaker 1: small boobs. Her character is self conscious of them. There's
Speaker 1: that scene in the lingerie shop where she's like, I
Speaker 1: always thought I didn't really deserve to wear a bra
Speaker 1: because my boobs are smalls, like. So that was another
Speaker 1: thing where I was like, this scene is so weird
Speaker 1: and tonally dissonant, where I'm like, what is going on
Speaker 1: in this scene?
Speaker 2: I I was like, oh, so this is about capitalism.
Speaker 4: You just have up on her right manipulating her into
Speaker 4: buying a bra.
Speaker 1: I was like, I didn't feel it. I was like,
Speaker 1: because as a as a fellow small titty har that
Speaker 1: doesn't wear bras, I'm like, they're lying to you, chreamed,
Speaker 1: don't fall for you, don't need.
Speaker 3: A bra, do whatever you want. It does seem like
Speaker 3: it's the sales lady doing whatever she needs to do
Speaker 3: to make the sale. Yeah, yeah, Charene buying into it?
Speaker 3: Maybe because she's feeling especially vulnerable or something. And then
Speaker 3: her friend Crystal is in the background being like what
Speaker 3: the hell is going on? Like, Sharene, why are you
Speaker 3: falling for this?
Speaker 1: Sometimes you just need a beautiful woman to be nice
Speaker 1: to you when you're going through it, and you'll end
Speaker 1: up drop I've certainly dropped more money than I'm comfortable
Speaker 1: admitting for someone who was nice to me when I
Speaker 1: was having Yeah.
Speaker 3: It does the trick, it works. But yeah, all of
Speaker 3: this just felt very real and relatable as far as
Speaker 3: like existing with a female body in a world that's
Speaker 3: constantly trying to make you feel bad about your body,
Speaker 3: and her having to figure out how to feel sexy
Speaker 3: in her body and how to you know, own her
Speaker 3: sexiness and stuff like that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I liked her owning her sexuality. There's a transition
Speaker 4: I love in the movie where she is hooking up
Speaker 4: with the soft like the folk stand up and she
Speaker 4: goes to like scratch his back and he grabbed her hand.
Speaker 4: He is not into like the roughness she's been trying
Speaker 4: to get going, and it just transitions straight to like
Speaker 4: a clasped hand over her heads and it's like Maxine
Speaker 4: on top.
Speaker 3: And great match cut.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so good. But that certainty she had in her
Speaker 2: sexual I don't know.
Speaker 4: I was trying to figure out. I was like, does
Speaker 4: this mean like this relationship was very toxic? Did it
Speaker 4: help her like explore and own her sexuality? Like were
Speaker 4: we trying to see? Like I don't know if that
Speaker 4: was trying to be displayed at all.
Speaker 3: Her relationship with Maxine or her hook up with that guy.
Speaker 4: It felt like her relationship with Maxine, for as toxic
Speaker 4: as it was, did give her like this owning.
Speaker 2: I don't know she always had owned her sexuality.
Speaker 4: I don't know there was something there I could never
Speaker 4: I'm still trying to process and figure out. But and
Speaker 4: it was literally that cut that made me obsess over it.
Speaker 1: But interesting, Yeah, I guess it's like I wasn't really
Speaker 1: because Maxine, like she both has like really nice memories
Speaker 1: of sex with Maxine. It seems like the sex.
Speaker 2: Was really good.
Speaker 1: But then Maxine is also sort of like Vanilla pride,
Speaker 1: vanilla representation matters, So it's like there's still I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess I kept where I landed on. It was
Speaker 1: just like it's like a little bit of column A,
Speaker 1: a little bit of column B, because I feel like
Speaker 1: if this movie was more prescriptive too, like Maxine turfy
Speaker 1: as she is, you know, is being stalked by her
Speaker 1: ex girlfriend and I think is like pretty pretty could
Speaker 1: have been less chill about it. Yeah, So it's like
Speaker 1: there's just so much I don't know's It seems like
Speaker 1: these two are like willing to show each other grace
Speaker 1: and maybe that's it.
Speaker 4: Like I don't know enjoyed the sex scene though, good
Speaker 4: sexye good sex scene.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean obviously those two scenes are juxtaposed right
Speaker 3: next to each other, the hook up with the folk
Speaker 3: stand up and the way more intimate, hotter sex scene
Speaker 3: between Sharene and Maxine. My interpretation of it was that,
Speaker 3: and this is kind of obvious, but Sharene hooking up
Speaker 3: with this guy she barely knows. I think she met
Speaker 3: him earlier that day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was Brooklyn Boy eighty two, which I wrote
Speaker 1: down for some reason.
Speaker 3: I was just like, oh okay, I kind of miss
Speaker 3: okay Cupid. I know it's still around, but haven't been left.
Speaker 1: Who's there?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not sure, but she was doing this to
Speaker 3: fill a void. She longs for the intimacy she had
Speaker 3: with Maxine, who she loved, because like you see that
Speaker 3: scene after she had sex with that guy and they're
Speaker 3: lying in bed, She's like on her back, like wide awake,
Speaker 3: and then the man is just like passed out, kind
Speaker 3: of sprawled on top of her, and you can just
Speaker 3: kind of imagine what she's thinking, which is like get
Speaker 3: off me and please leave my apartment. That's what I
Speaker 3: would be thinking if it were me. Maybe I'm just projecting, but.
Speaker 1: No, that's definitely the vibe. Yeah, where she's like, please
Speaker 1: get out of here so I can fantasize about my
Speaker 1: ex right right.
Speaker 2: Right, first deepened the void.
Speaker 3: Yeah, to your point, Melody, I feel like, yeah, that
Speaker 3: she did. Probably she was able to kind of like
Speaker 3: open up sexually with Maxine, although you know, we don't
Speaker 3: know a lot of her history pre Maxine.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's like sex with intimacy and it's like, yeah's talking. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's that he solved it for me.
Speaker 2: I'm just not smart. That was that.
Speaker 1: That was a three person.
Speaker 3: Yeah, took all three got there.
Speaker 1: But even that is like so nuanced too, right, where
Speaker 1: it's like you found like sex with intimacy, but it's
Speaker 1: still not quite what you need. It's like that kind
Speaker 1: of I feel like I've had relationships like that where
Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, that relationship was ultimately not good, but
Speaker 1: there was one element of it that I experienced that
Speaker 1: I'd never had before and I want that moving forward
Speaker 1: or like that kind of deal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too, And it was sexual.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's I mean sometimes like not great people
Speaker 1: learn a new way to make you come and you're like, well,
Speaker 1: we have to sit with this.
Speaker 3: People contain multitudes.
Speaker 1: Turns out, evil people are often really good at sad.
Speaker 2: Yeah it's true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not always, but more often than you'd want.
Speaker 2: Or bad communicators.
Speaker 4: Verbal communicators tend to be good at sex communicate physically annoying.
Speaker 3: Well, what else does anyone have anything else they want
Speaker 3: to talk about?
Speaker 2: Love? The song at the end one of my favorites.
Speaker 2: There's a Persian song.
Speaker 4: Oh during the credits after she's gonna be okay moment
Speaker 4: I think she throws out is that she's gonna be
Speaker 4: okay moment before her throwing the dildo out.
Speaker 3: Oh, I thought it was after.
Speaker 1: I think it's the last shot, right, Maybe I'm misremembering.
Speaker 3: The last shot is her on the train being like
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be okay, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah regardless.
Speaker 4: There's a song at the end that is a popular
Speaker 4: Persian song this artist. It's called Golayach, which translates to
Speaker 4: like ice flower, like a frozen flower. It's got a
Speaker 4: lot of like poetic imagery. She chose the perfect song.
Speaker 4: It's just about like this, like melancholy nostalgia, and feeling
Speaker 4: like emotionally distant from something. And it's I highly recommend
Speaker 4: people I don't know listen to it and put the
Speaker 4: lyrics through a translator.
Speaker 2: It's like being stuck between worlds and it is.
Speaker 4: It's borne out of this like diasporic nostalgia. But it
Speaker 4: really it works really well. I don't know if it
Speaker 4: was intentional or not, but it works well. After all
Speaker 4: of this like emotionally guarded struggles between her two worlds,
Speaker 4: it does a good job of closing it out. Really
Speaker 4: good song. It's like a psych rock artist from the seventies.
Speaker 3: That kind of reminded me of this scene where she's
Speaker 3: talking with the scott As Dick character when they first
Speaker 3: meet and he's like, oh, Charene, where is that from?
Speaker 3: And he's like listing off different countries in.
Speaker 2: Seria, Argentasia.
Speaker 1: Well, I think, and then he also refers to like
Speaker 1: when she says she's Irani and he's like, so, how
Speaker 1: do you feel about I think? He's like all that,
Speaker 1: all that stuff.
Speaker 2: That's so real.
Speaker 3: Yeah, He's like, I just read this article about this
Speaker 3: hip hop the hip hop scene in Tehran. He's like,
Speaker 3: do you know about that? Are you into that, or
Speaker 3: like are you part of that scene? And she's like
Speaker 3: when I go to Iran, I'm just untangling jewelry, or
Speaker 3: like I'm watching Disney videos while my grandma untangles jewelry.
Speaker 4: I really loved the scott At scene with the yeah, wow, Iran,
Speaker 4: how do you feel about that?
Speaker 2: Because that is so real.
Speaker 4: In Iran post nineteen seventy nine revolution is so shrouded
Speaker 4: in mystery, like by design, like it is a heavily
Speaker 4: censored country. You have to out of the International Foreign
Speaker 4: Press Index, it's like rates, it's third to last out
Speaker 4: of all of the countries. The truth has to be
Speaker 4: smuggled out and there are real life and death repercussions
Speaker 4: just for like I have a cousin right now who
Speaker 4: every time he updates me on what's going on on
Speaker 4: the streets to Tehran and we know it's like a
Speaker 4: huge risk and we're like talking in code essentially on WhatsApp.
Speaker 4: There's checkpoints everywhere, they'll grab your phone and go through
Speaker 4: your deleted messages and photos. It is so just with
Speaker 4: what's happening now, especially like watching that scene back, like
Speaker 4: I it's very frustrating time to be an Irunnian and
Speaker 4: just like witnessing a lot of wrong just narratives and
Speaker 4: propaganda going around from the left and the right in
Speaker 4: the West.
Speaker 2: But that was like a good reminder that it was
Speaker 2: like what do you expect, Like that's what it is.
Speaker 4: It's such a mysterious place and there's so much like
Speaker 4: people get shocked.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, there's a rap scene they do wrap there.
Speaker 4: Like it's like, yeah, there are Western out like globalizations
Speaker 4: happened and reached them. Internet has you know, opened up
Speaker 4: little like peak holes into Iranian.
Speaker 2: Culture, and I don't know, I really appreciated that. I'm
Speaker 2: coming through a lot, and I really appreciated that.
Speaker 3: I mean, well, as of today, there's been an internet
Speaker 3: blackout for how many days now, Well it went.
Speaker 4: Up to the nineties, and every time there's conflict in
Speaker 4: that country, the government shuts down the internet so they
Speaker 4: can get away with the most horrific crimes against humanity.
Speaker 4: There was a massacre in early January January eighth and ninth, specifically,
Speaker 4: there were protests that just turned deadly. It went from
Speaker 4: pellet guns to like imported militias, proxy militias coming in
Speaker 4: to shoot and kill their own people or anyone dissent,
Speaker 4: and the internet went out for that and came back,
Speaker 4: but then once we went to war that night, they
Speaker 4: gave a warning. My cousin even told me it's like
Speaker 4: at midnight they said they're cutting it, and we thought
Speaker 4: it would just be another like week or a couple
Speaker 4: week period like they normally do. But yeah, it lasted
Speaker 4: months and.
Speaker 2: It's tough.
Speaker 4: It's back now, but like you still have to purchase
Speaker 4: a VPN to get on a messaging app, and there's
Speaker 4: an economic disagn like I I don't care find me
Speaker 4: Islamic Republic. I've been like sending crypto over so that
Speaker 4: it can be like to bypass sanctions just to send
Speaker 4: money so that they can convert it and buy VPNs,
Speaker 4: just to let us know that they're okay and safe
Speaker 4: from bombings.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's still really bad.
Speaker 4: They're trying to introduce sort of like a North Korean
Speaker 4: model of internet right now, and I guess they were
Speaker 4: kind of far along on that process, but because of
Speaker 4: the war, like certain information centers or intelligence centers were bombed,
Speaker 4: but they're trying to make it North Korea levels of censorship,
Speaker 4: and hopefully that doesn't happen because it is such a
Speaker 4: beautiful culture.
Speaker 2: And the Iranian people, I don't know, they're the.
Speaker 4: Best, sweetest, most artistic, kind hospitable people in the world.
Speaker 2: And it's just crazy. People don't know that. And you
Speaker 2: get that from conversations like they got wrapped there.
Speaker 4: It's just like, yeah, people and they just want to
Speaker 4: live a normal life and listen to music, which is illegal.
Speaker 4: You can't listen to music in the street there. Women
Speaker 4: are not allowed to sit in public. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 4: they just.
Speaker 2: Want basic human rights.
Speaker 4: And I appreciate her for kind of like poking fun
Speaker 4: of that from a diaspora point of view, Like these
Speaker 4: conversations we have were just the most basic things about humanity.
Speaker 2: It's like, you, guys, they do that.
Speaker 1: They got that there, So that.
Speaker 2: Was well done.
Speaker 3: Yeah, is there anything else anyways? Is there anything else
Speaker 3: anyone wants to chat about?
Speaker 2: Just hope we get more from her me too.
Speaker 1: I was like that was something that I noted that.
Speaker 1: It's like she's still very much working. But every time,
Speaker 1: like we've talked about this so a lot this year.
Speaker 1: Almost every time we talk about women director and especially
Speaker 1: a woman of color, like getting that sustained career as
Speaker 1: a director is so elusive. We talked about that with
Speaker 1: Julie Dash when we did Daughters of the Dust earlier
Speaker 1: this year. Doesiret Acabun has directed one other movie, The
Speaker 1: Miseducation of Cameron Post, which we should cover at some point.
Speaker 1: It's really good, so good, And she also she wrote
Speaker 1: and directed that in twenty eighteen, and then she has
Speaker 1: I mean, she's been working consistently in TV, but I
Speaker 1: just would I just I would be completely shocked if
Speaker 1: there isn't a script that, like a project that has
Speaker 1: been in development for far too long, you know, because
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, TV directing is great financially and it
Speaker 1: could be like really enriching. But it's like she is
Speaker 1: an oh tour director, Like that is we should be
Speaker 1: seeing more from her. We also just talked about it
Speaker 1: with oh my gosh, Kayla, what is the movie we
Speaker 1: covered two seconds ago?
Speaker 3: Slums of Beverly Hills.
Speaker 1: Slums of Beverly Hills. Yes, like show where that director
Speaker 1: has spoken extensively on like how impossible, like it took it.
Speaker 1: It's like a decade between projects because who can say,
Speaker 1: who can say? But if you look at really like
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot a lot of women have
Speaker 1: really promising debuts, and then they are sort of relegated
Speaker 1: to less prominent areas that you just know would not
Speaker 1: be happening to a man in their position.
Speaker 4: So right, there's development in hell and that standard. But
Speaker 4: then for women it's like double that. It feels like,
Speaker 4: or women of color, it's.
Speaker 3: Like the seventh circle of Hell. Development Hell.
Speaker 1: Yes, right, it's just all gaslighting and ridiculousness. But she's
Speaker 1: so amazing and in a world with even the tiniest
Speaker 1: bit of justice in it, we will be seeing a
Speaker 1: lot more from her.
Speaker 3: Yes, well, I saw an interview with her. It was
Speaker 3: like a screening of this film followed by a Q
Speaker 3: and A with her that they did I think is
Speaker 3: like ten year anniversary, So it was a couple of
Speaker 3: years ago that this happened. She was not able to
Speaker 3: be there in person, so it was like a Q
Speaker 3: and A with her over zoom. But she talks about
Speaker 3: how she has two feature scripts that she's been working
Speaker 3: on developing, trying to get into production, so hopefully any
Speaker 3: any second now, we'll get one or both of them.
Speaker 4: That's the decade, the mandatory decade waiting period for a
Speaker 4: woman of color, So that's a time it's just.
Speaker 1: So it's so diabolical. I'm okay, I'm just gonna hold
Speaker 1: my tongue. I'm gonna hold my tongue now, or we'll
Speaker 1: be here all day.
Speaker 3: Well, the movie does pass the Bechdel test, as we
Speaker 3: eluded earlier, between many different characters, between Scharene and Maxine
Speaker 3: of course, Scharene and Crystal, Scharene and her mother, Scharene
Speaker 3: and Tibet Rena, Tibet Green, and the BRA sales person lots.
Speaker 3: I don't know if we know her name.
Speaker 1: But there's really not a lot of men of importance
Speaker 1: in this plot. I would say her brother is maybe
Speaker 1: the most narratively impactful. Man, this is true, and he's
Speaker 1: not in it very much.
Speaker 2: And her boss just being like stone parts.
Speaker 1: So oh also that his defining characteristics. He's like, I
Speaker 1: never know where my son is. You're like, all right, man.
Speaker 1: That's his last line where he's like, where's my son?
Speaker 2: Have you seen him? Oh? Man?
Speaker 3: Yeah? So it passes the Pecto test. But what about
Speaker 3: our nipple scale, where we rate the movie on a
Speaker 3: scale of zero to five nipples based on examining it
Speaker 3: through an intersectional feminist lens. I think I'll go four
Speaker 3: with this one. I am going to take off a
Speaker 3: full nipple for the anti trans sentiments and jokes that
Speaker 3: occur throughout the movie. But again, I would hazardou guess
Speaker 3: that had this movie come out ten years later or
Speaker 3: more recent projects of desires, that she would avoid that.
Speaker 3: So it does feel of the time. But even so,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna take a nipple off for that. But yeah,
Speaker 3: four nipples and I'm gonna give them all to Desiree
Speaker 3: and again, hope we see more of her work soon.
Speaker 1: A constantly I'm gonna go yeah, I'm like, I guess,
Speaker 1: I'm like between three point seven and five and four.
Speaker 1: This is this movie is like so distinct, Like it
Speaker 1: this movie I feel like only could have been made
Speaker 1: by this person in this year. Like it is both
Speaker 1: so specific to who Desiree Achabon is and it's so
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen in ways that are both really cool and transphobic.
Speaker 1: The transphobia I really had a hard time with, I think,
Speaker 1: just especially because it just kept kept on coming back.
Speaker 1: But I do, I do totally agree that like this
Speaker 1: is like not something that would appear today. That is
Speaker 1: the twenty fourteen sque thing about this movie. Besides some
Speaker 1: of the clothes. But but I really, I mean, I
Speaker 1: really loved this movie. This is like the fact that
Speaker 1: this is her debut is kind of nuts, and that
Speaker 1: she gives a really good performance in it. I just
Speaker 1: she's wearing so many hats. Everything about it works for me,
Speaker 1: except for the things that we've discussed. I'm going to
Speaker 1: go for. I'm gonna go for and I'm going to
Speaker 1: give them all to our good friend Desiree.
Speaker 3: Nice melody, how about you? How about you?
Speaker 4: I was thinking for Neon twenty fourteen style mesh covered nipples.
Speaker 1: Some of the outfits were trigged.
Speaker 2: I honestly had physical reactions.
Speaker 1: It's like my butt cheeks were so clenched during the
Speaker 1: the shirts were so Why were our shirts so love?
Speaker 1: What was going on?
Speaker 4: It's because like our pants were so tight that our
Speaker 4: junk was on display or like something, or the pants
Speaker 4: were so low.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was an evil time. Melody, Thank you so
Speaker 3: much for being here.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, guys, it's so much fun.
Speaker 3: Where can people follow you on social media? Plug anything
Speaker 3: you want to plug?
Speaker 4: Well, I'm on a therapist mandated break from Instagram because
Speaker 4: I've been crushing out in comments sections defending my people
Speaker 4: in the homeland. But I'm at Melody Kamali on all
Speaker 4: social media, and I'll be back in a sane way.
Speaker 4: But you know, really limiting that right now because of
Speaker 4: the propaganda. Yeah, really heavy right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm around Hit me up.
Speaker 3: And you can follow us on Instagram at Bechdel Cast,
Speaker 3: where we are not very active because I also can't
Speaker 3: stand social media, but where you can really follow us
Speaker 3: and support us is our Patreon aka Matreon, where you
Speaker 3: get two bonus episodes every single month, plus access to
Speaker 3: the back catalog of over two hundred bonus episodes, all
Speaker 3: for five dollars a month. What a damn good special.
Speaker 3: What a deal? What a deal?
Speaker 1: And with that?
Speaker 3: Should we I was gonna say, throw away the dil
Speaker 3: does I want to be over?
Speaker 1: Let's say three let's meet three girls and days who
Speaker 1: are going to be okay. I'm like, I'm looking around,
Speaker 1: I'm sipping my coffee, I'm nodding.
Speaker 3: We're on the train going to be okay.
Speaker 2: That's literally my train really view. Yeah, next time I'm
Speaker 2: on it. Yeah, later today I'll be.
Speaker 3: I'll be a okay, you'll be okay, going to be okay, beautiful.
Speaker 3: I love that for you. Okay bye by Like.
Speaker 1: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted and
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