Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning. Breakfast Club Morning.
Speaker 2: Everybody's DJ n V Jess hilarious, Chelamine the guy. We
Speaker 2: are the Breakfast Club. You got a special guests in
Speaker 2: the building. That's right, the good brother Michael Eric Dison.
Speaker 3: Welcome back, brother, Hey, it's good to be here. The
Speaker 3: new digs they looked great.
Speaker 1: Wow, man, sal how come no pictures of dicing on
Speaker 1: the walls headline the same thing you got the crispy here.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 1: I had to get it faded up before I came here, man,
Speaker 1: you know, I had to hang with y'all. I had
Speaker 1: to get right. Man.
Speaker 4: Now you in town for the National Action Network Summit. Yeah,
Speaker 4: something the good brother, Reverend Shoping had been doing for years.
Speaker 3: But what exactly is that.
Speaker 1: Well, it's a convention, an annual gathering for his organization,
Speaker 1: National Action Network, and it's a remarkable gathering of all
Speaker 1: kinds of folks.
Speaker 3: I was at the gala last night.
Speaker 1: He's honoring everybody from Whoopi Goldberg uh, to Caroline Wanga,
Speaker 1: the CEO of Essence UH to to you know, the
Speaker 1: the young lady Alexis Magil who runs the Planned Parenthood.
Speaker 1: So it's an awards banquet, but the entire gathering, you
Speaker 1: might see Vice President Harris, you might see President Biden,
Speaker 1: you might see Charlamagne the God rolling through their DJ
Speaker 1: envy And it's an incredible gathering to talk about politics, culture,
Speaker 1: religion and what we do as a society to respond
Speaker 1: to the need for justice. And I'm actually a keynote
Speaker 1: for the Minister's luncheon on Friday to try to talk
Speaker 1: about social justice and the necessity of the church connecting
Speaker 1: to the social justice arena.
Speaker 3: Okay, well it is a big election. Yeah, it is
Speaker 3: a big election. Bro man. How you feel is Biden?
Speaker 3: How you feel about Truma? The rematch? American does not
Speaker 3: wanting It's true, but it's what we got.
Speaker 1: You know. I want the Lakers to be every year
Speaker 1: in the finals, because I was raised as a Lakers fan.
Speaker 3: But that ain't who's plan.
Speaker 1: You know. It's probably gonna be the Nuggets and maybe
Speaker 1: the Celtics, So you gotta choose one of them. And
Speaker 1: the thing is is that, yes, we think we want
Speaker 1: better choices because we want better choices. We think that
Speaker 1: better people should run because we think better people should run.
Speaker 1: But these are the people running. I happen to believe
Speaker 1: that there is not even a question for black people
Speaker 1: of who to choose. I mean, Joe Biden has been
Speaker 1: far above anything that President or ex President Trumps provided.
Speaker 1: I saw him in the What was it talking about jobs,
Speaker 1: bro I mean, the unemployment rate of Black America now
Speaker 1: is about five point six.
Speaker 3: When Biden came into office, it was nine point three.
Speaker 1: He's talking about money and checks, and I see Sexy
Speaker 1: Read and other rappers talking about he gave us a check.
Speaker 1: First of all, please study your politics and ya civics.
Speaker 1: That's the Congress that allotted that money. Plus is yodo.
Speaker 1: And if you're going to count that way, then count
Speaker 1: what Biden did for relieving the burden of people paying
Speaker 1: back their student loans, and on and on and on
Speaker 1: when we look at every metric, not only putting a
Speaker 1: black woman in the Vice president office, not only putting
Speaker 1: a black woman on the Supreme Court, but doing programs
Speaker 1: that lift all boats, that address African American people specifically
Speaker 1: in some instances, but more broadly issues that are concerning us,
Speaker 1: whether it's about discrimination and housing, whether it's about not
Speaker 1: only student loans, but every effort of education, kicking kids
Speaker 1: out of school early and on and on and on.
Speaker 1: It ain't no question for me. Donald Trump is a
Speaker 1: vortex of bigotry. He is the leader of the big autocracy,
Speaker 1: the rule reign and tyranny of forces that are antithetical
Speaker 1: to our best interests, not only as black people, but
Speaker 1: as a nation. And when we look at every indication
Speaker 1: of where we are as a nation, this is a
Speaker 1: guy who's still standing by people who supported January sixth,
Speaker 1: the insurrectionist. He's trying to make them American patriots, but
Speaker 1: demonizing Black Lives matter, demonizing.
Speaker 3: People who protest for the right and ability to live.
Speaker 1: In this nation without the unjust encumbrances imposed on us
Speaker 1: by white supremacy. So I don't understand what black people
Speaker 1: see in Donald Trump's swag. I mean, come on, this
Speaker 1: borrowswag at best, it's referred swag at best. I mean
Speaker 1: Barack Obama had swag coming down Air Force run. It
Speaker 1: might as well been, you know, fifty cent planning in
Speaker 1: the background. I don't know what you heard about me,
Speaker 1: but the reight can't get a dollar out of me. Right,
Speaker 1: he had swag, but he had a tan suiting people
Speaker 1: went crazy. Now, Donald Trump the face of neo fascism,
Speaker 1: the face of an authoritarian government that is already indicated
Speaker 1: if he gets back in office what he's going to do.
Speaker 1: There ain't no choice for us and black people. We
Speaker 1: got to wake up. These are the things we have
Speaker 1: to attend to. And look, you saw the article I
Speaker 1: think in the New York Times yesterday that said recently
Speaker 1: that said that Donald Trump and the Republican Party are
Speaker 1: supporting third party interest because those detract from and take
Speaker 1: votes away from Joe Biden.
Speaker 3: So we know in a tight race, every vote counts.
Speaker 1: Tell r RFK Jr.
Speaker 3: In particular.
Speaker 1: And I think that again, this is not time for
Speaker 1: this extended journey of narcissism, this escapade of self deification. Bro,
Speaker 1: these are serious issues at stake, and Black folk got
Speaker 1: to get out there and vote.
Speaker 4: I don't disagree with anything that you said, but I
Speaker 4: think that we don't take the time sometimes to take
Speaker 4: a step back and see why people do gravitate towards,
Speaker 4: you know, somebody like Trump, Because I keep telling folks
Speaker 4: over and over, you know, people will forget what you did,
Speaker 4: they'll forget what you said, but they won't forget how.
Speaker 3: You made them feel.
Speaker 4: In twenty people felt they got the stimulus checks, they
Speaker 4: got the PPP loans, so they felt like it was
Speaker 4: more money in their pocket. Now, what I tell folks is,
Speaker 4: let's think about how we got there. We got there
Speaker 4: because of Donald Trump's mishandling of COVID. So do you
Speaker 4: want to see millions of people die thanks in order
Speaker 4: for you to get that check in your pocket?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 4: And I think the other problem is the Democrats just
Speaker 4: do a terrible job messaging. And I think sometimes we
Speaker 4: helped them with terrible messaging because we spend so much
Speaker 4: time talking about how bad Donald Trump is, knowing you
Speaker 4: ain't gonna change none of those people in mind who's
Speaker 4: supporting Trump. You don't talk about the good that the
Speaker 4: Biden Harris administration is doing enough.
Speaker 1: I think amen, I mean absolutely right. And they could
Speaker 1: do a better job of evangelizing their own evolution, their
Speaker 1: own viewpoints, and what they've done for black people and others.
Speaker 1: But you you know, you damned if you do, then
Speaker 1: you damned if you don't. Look on your show, Joe
Speaker 1: Biden made a joke. He was like, if you don't
Speaker 1: vote for me, you ain't black.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I don't know that was a joke. Well,
Speaker 3: here's my point.
Speaker 1: We say we want a white person who understands us
Speaker 1: and con vibe with us, right, Bill Clinton playing the saxophone,
Speaker 1: but more importantly understanding the limits, the interests, the ideals
Speaker 1: of Black America. That was an inside joke, Joe Biden saying,
Speaker 1: if you don't vote for me, that's a bit of swag,
Speaker 1: if you will, by saying, by promoting the fact that
Speaker 1: he understood the inside language and discourse of Black America.
Speaker 1: That was not laying laying claims to the fact that,
Speaker 1: of course, if you are authentically black, then I am
Speaker 1: the only choice for you.
Speaker 3: That was a bit of swag. And then we're tripping.
Speaker 1: We don't want it.
Speaker 3: Say if you go for Trump, you voting get your
Speaker 3: own interest. I mean, he ain't lying. I don't detect
Speaker 3: no lives. So I'm saying, if he's got that, we
Speaker 3: don't mind it.
Speaker 1: If you know, you know some rapper who's white doing it,
Speaker 1: you know, if it's Eminem and you know doctor Draken
Speaker 1: Sentim said he's the coldest brother on the microphone and
Speaker 1: what he does and blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: So we don't mind that kind of swag.
Speaker 1: But if a guy who understands us who's had Look
Speaker 1: look complicated histories.
Speaker 3: You know, people are constantly pointing, well, look at Joe
Speaker 3: Biden in the nineteen nineties, bro, what have you done
Speaker 3: for me?
Speaker 1: Lately?
Speaker 3: People evolve and grow, they change.
Speaker 1: Now Joe Biden is still saying the stuff he said
Speaker 1: back then about you know, not wanting his kids to
Speaker 1: be involved in a racial jungle or you.
Speaker 3: Know, against busting.
Speaker 1: Well find me a white person that really wasn't against
Speaker 1: busting at that particular point, even in enlightened white liberals.
Speaker 3: Now, my point is not to say that he is perfect.
Speaker 4: He's not.
Speaker 1: The point is, though, what has he become? What is
Speaker 1: he evolved to rock him said, it's not where you're from,
Speaker 1: is where you're at?
Speaker 3: What is he doing now?
Speaker 1: What is his interest in our progress? And what do
Speaker 1: we get from supporting that particular figure Donald Trump? Again,
Speaker 1: your point is right, Let's figure out why.
Speaker 3: People are attracted him. It ain't it ain't great.
Speaker 1: I mean, we could be attracted him because rappers who
Speaker 1: put Donald Trump on understood that Donald Trump was like them,
Speaker 1: swag a lot of bravado. But we see he ain't
Speaker 1: got the He lying like most rappers, you know, about
Speaker 1: what they got. When Jay Z said, well, hey hey, homeboy, playboy,
Speaker 1: where's those those diamonds? That's not what you said. Where's
Speaker 1: the hummer? That's not what you said you had. So
Speaker 1: we know a lot of rappers lie, that's what they do.
Speaker 1: So Donald Trump was attractive because he was a liar.
Speaker 1: He was full of mendacity. Here's a guy we're talking about,
Speaker 1: Joe Biden back in the day. You and your daddy
Speaker 1: are racist in terms of the what buildings you owned
Speaker 1: and not wanting black people to be there.
Speaker 3: So if we gonna do it, let's go to for tap.
Speaker 1: But my point is that, yes, at this point, don't
Speaker 1: we we understand enough of why black people might be
Speaker 1: attracted him some black men. Let's go there, some black
Speaker 1: men because of the swag of patriarchy, a man in charge.
Speaker 1: He's talking about grabbing stuff.
Speaker 3: This is vicious.
Speaker 1: Repudiation of an enlightened sense of masculinity. You ain't got
Speaker 1: to do that in order to be a man. So
Speaker 1: everything that Donald Trump represents that is attracted to us
Speaker 1: ain't great. So let's get a do away with the
Speaker 1: kind of patriarchy, the misogyny, the sexism that royal so
Speaker 1: much of our community in ways that are destructive, whether
Speaker 1: we see it in the church or the temple of
Speaker 1: the synagogue and so on, or whether we see it
Speaker 1: in schools. So the point is, yes, let's examine why
Speaker 1: black people may be attracted or others. And we ain't
Speaker 1: gonna change their minds, but we can change enough minds
Speaker 1: within our own community to say, don't vote against your
Speaker 1: own best interests.
Speaker 3: And in that case, I think there's little choice about
Speaker 3: who we should vote for on that day.
Speaker 4: Well, you say the black conservatives who say our best
Speaker 4: interests are conservative.
Speaker 1: Rue, That's why so few of them, they numbers speak
Speaker 1: for themselves, right, Black conservatives are quite interesting. You know,
Speaker 1: you had a wonderful interview here with Canda's owns.
Speaker 3: She ain't you know what's interesting to me.
Speaker 1: Candi's owners ain't apologized for what she said about George Floyd.
Speaker 1: She made an entire documentary, but you know, besmirching this
Speaker 1: man's attitude posthumously, no apology for that.
Speaker 3: If that's how you feel, why should she apologize.
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, because she shouldn't have. She should
Speaker 1: apologize because she's wrong.
Speaker 3: Number one.
Speaker 1: Number two, she can feel that way, and that's your
Speaker 1: point about feeling. Let me connect these two black people
Speaker 1: what we feel as opposed to what we do. Sometimes
Speaker 1: you don't feel like loving your partner, you don't feel
Speaker 1: like loving your wife or your husband or the person
Speaker 1: you wit, but you do it out of what a
Speaker 1: sense of duty and obligation. Those are not bad words.
Speaker 1: So just because she felt that way, the facts show
Speaker 1: that's not true. The stuff she tried to make up
Speaker 1: has been empirically disproved. At the same time, here's a
Speaker 1: man lying on the ground begging for his life that
Speaker 1: millions of black people can identify with, and she's trying
Speaker 1: to turn it into some conspiration see of black you know,
Speaker 1: refusal to be responsible. You know her and Jason Whitlock.
Speaker 1: These are people who are destructive for our community. And
Speaker 1: Candace Owns gets a break because white folk got rid
Speaker 1: of her, The right wing got tired of her on
Speaker 1: the issue of Israel versus Palestine when she had a
Speaker 1: fleeting moment of revelation. And now she's accepted and embraced.
Speaker 1: If that's what black conservativism is her or Jason Whitlock
Speaker 1: or Clarence Thomas, who has been a singular source of
Speaker 1: destruction for our people. The black conservatives ain't that much
Speaker 1: to recommend for their particular viewpoint.
Speaker 3: This is what I think we're missing, And I'm not
Speaker 3: defending any of these people.
Speaker 4: What I think with somebody like a canvas owns, I
Speaker 4: don't think black people, certain black people didn't.
Speaker 3: Realize she already had a large audience Black.
Speaker 4: She had a movement called Blexit, and that was six
Speaker 4: seven years ago when she was trying to get people,
Speaker 4: black people in particular, to get off the Democratic plantation
Speaker 4: and seek other things, whether it was being a conservative,
Speaker 4: being an independent, whatever it is. So I think now
Speaker 4: when people say this thing about, oh, it's black people
Speaker 4: embracing her, it's like, nah, she already had an audience.
Speaker 1: When we say black people are really talking about new
Speaker 1: black people who we wasn't embracing her before, the black
Speaker 1: people who weren't. Look, of course they are conservative black
Speaker 1: people in this country. The average Black person, without respect
Speaker 1: to politics, is culturally and religiously and morally conservative. They
Speaker 1: believe in tank commandments. Yeah, they might want to support
Speaker 1: a woman's right to have abortion, bodily autonomy, but for real,
Speaker 1: for real, when they go to church, they're concerned about
Speaker 1: the fact that you might be a bored in a baby, right,
Speaker 1: So you can have a particular religious viewpoint about an
Speaker 1: issue and have a political and understanding the political consequence
Speaker 1: of that viewpoint. That's why black people have been radically
Speaker 1: dissimilar to white evangelicals and the politicization of white evangelicals
Speaker 1: who have used their religion to try to make this
Speaker 1: a Christian nation. Martin Luther King Junior used his Christianity
Speaker 1: to make this as nation. And that's a big difference.
Speaker 1: When I see people praying in certain legislatures and praising
Speaker 1: to God, I'm an atheist to that, God said I
Speaker 1: only I'm tired of your incense. I'm tired of the bs.
Speaker 1: So I'm saying God, if God is an atheist to that,
Speaker 1: I ain't gonna believe in it either. So back to
Speaker 1: the point of Candace Owns, Yeah, there are some black
Speaker 1: people who follow her.
Speaker 3: This. Look the great beloved.
Speaker 1: May Angelo, a dear friend of mine whom I loved,
Speaker 1: who I think was right in ninety nine point nine
Speaker 1: percent of time. I think she was wrong about supporting
Speaker 1: Clarence Thomas. Give him a chance. Let's see what he'll
Speaker 1: do when he gets in there. And then he got
Speaker 1: there and he his Rex shop every since. So there
Speaker 1: are always gonna be Black people who are gonna give
Speaker 1: ear to certain conservative values, viewpoints and visions. The point is,
Speaker 1: what are the political consequences of what she's arguing. And
Speaker 1: I'm saying, at the end of the day, most the
Speaker 1: masses of black people are not co signing the kinds
Speaker 1: of viewpoints that black conservatives are putting forward. And Candace
Speaker 1: Owns in particular may have Look, she's bright, she's intelligence,
Speaker 1: she's articulate, she can be funny, she has a decided viewpoint,
Speaker 1: and I think she should be able to say that,
Speaker 1: and we should be able to say, what you are
Speaker 1: doing is counterproductive to the interests of African American people.
Speaker 1: The masses of black people can't co sign that because
Speaker 1: of the masses of black people. Don't see reflected in
Speaker 1: your vision of standing with Kanye West and saying white
Speaker 1: lives matter. I'm saying, at what point.
Speaker 3: Within those same black people stand with Kanye West still
Speaker 3: that they do, but not a bunch of them, not
Speaker 3: a whole bunch of them.
Speaker 1: Not When I'm saying, the masses of black people love
Speaker 1: Kanye for what he did, his music, what he represented,
Speaker 1: there's no question about that. The first five six albums incredible,
Speaker 1: and some of the music sinci It is incredible. We
Speaker 1: also have an understanding about him because of mental illness,
Speaker 1: and we know that mental health and mental illness are
Speaker 1: things he struggled with in public. So yes, we're gonna
Speaker 1: grant him some kind of recognition and we're gonna stand
Speaker 1: up for what he did when he stood up for
Speaker 1: us when he said George Bush doesn't care for black people.
Speaker 1: So there were moments in Kanye's evolution where he made
Speaker 1: significant political interventions in the name of a kind of
Speaker 1: understanding of that blackness. Viscerally, he didn't have a sophisticated
Speaker 1: political expression, but.
Speaker 3: He said stuff that we could vibe with. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I got to help Trump in the White House. You
Speaker 3: also hope trumping White House that you momy a superman.
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, bro, I mean at that level,
Speaker 1: are we going to ascribe that to an issue of
Speaker 1: mental health or we're going to say that's your choice
Speaker 1: and what you did. Sammy Davis Junior went to the
Speaker 1: White House with Richard Nixon, right, but it was a
Speaker 1: different consequence. He was raising money for black people and
Speaker 1: standing behind us and by us. So I think that, Look,
Speaker 1: Candace Owns and Kanye West.
Speaker 3: Bless them.
Speaker 1: They can do what they want, they can believe what
Speaker 1: they want. But we have a right and an obligation
Speaker 1: to say but that is not productive for us. And
Speaker 1: just because you may can doe from that, or some
Speaker 1: black people follow you, the masses of black people enough
Speaker 1: following you, because the masses of black people don't desern
Speaker 1: in your belief system, a structure of reliable confidence invested
Speaker 1: in this political order. For you to represent us, you
Speaker 1: ain't representing what we believe. When you believe in things
Speaker 1: you don't understand, then you suffer superstition. Ain't the way
Speaker 1: the great Stevie Wonder said. And some of that conservative
Speaker 1: stuff is kind of political superstition premised upon empirical facts.
Speaker 1: It's not based upon what we know to be the case.
Speaker 1: It's an idealized expression of where we are. So when
Speaker 1: the conservatives latch on, you shouldn't be the color of
Speaker 1: your skin, It should be the count of your character.
Speaker 1: That was a dream that a man articulated, that was
Speaker 1: not a reality. So again, for Candace Owns to get
Speaker 1: a pass, and this is what I mean by pass,
Speaker 1: not that they weren't already black people following her, but
Speaker 1: for our sympathies of those who didn't necessarily sign on
Speaker 1: to what she believed to now be sympathetic to her
Speaker 1: because she's gotten mistreated by white folks.
Speaker 3: That's what we've been telling you. Sympathetic the hurdle. You
Speaker 3: don't think anybody's being sympathetic to Candasons.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there are a lot of people sympathetic to
Speaker 1: Candassones as a black woman. Stand up for her the
Speaker 1: same way I was talking about Maya Angelo with Clarence Thomas,
Speaker 1: and he's a black man.
Speaker 3: Don't jump on him. Let's be concerned. Uh you know,
Speaker 3: it could be.
Speaker 4: It could be because they agree on the God's issue.
Speaker 4: That's probably I can do that. Yeah, yeah, okay, okay.
Speaker 1: So my point is, again for black concernservatives who articulate
Speaker 1: their ideas and beliefs, that's fine, but most of them
Speaker 1: don't have rooting, In fact, don't have rooting in a
Speaker 1: political order that has respected the integrity of our being,
Speaker 1: that has respected us, that has appreciated us. Some of
Speaker 1: the same white conservatives that they joined with now celebrating
Speaker 1: Martin L. King Junior couldn't stand him when he was alive,
Speaker 1: called him Martin Luther. Kuhm saw him as the worst
Speaker 1: scourge on the American democracy, a blemish to the record
Speaker 1: of the American Constitution of Declaration of Independence. Not embrazen
Speaker 1: then why because they think they can use them. These
Speaker 1: are the same people who stand against the very politics
Speaker 1: that we're invested in, and when black folk do it,
Speaker 1: there's an especial assault and insult to us, because y'all
Speaker 1: been there long enough. Clarience, Thomas is a dark skinned
Speaker 1: black man. I'm sure some of his animals toward black
Speaker 1: people has to do with being mistreated by black people
Speaker 1: because he.
Speaker 3: Was such a dark sand black man.
Speaker 1: My daddy was from all Benny, Georgia, a blue black man,
Speaker 1: So as a light skinned Negro, I saw that growing up,
Speaker 1: and I saw how people treat him and mistreated him. Me,
Speaker 1: being a curly haired used to wear glasses till I
Speaker 1: got my eyes fixed the other day on the cataracts,
Speaker 1: so I can see you now, huh yeah, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I got well, it's like LASiS, but I had cataracts,
Speaker 1: so they removed the cataracts. It was lasers and surgery, man,
Speaker 1: So now I can see I ain't got no glass
Speaker 1: and I can see a handsome all I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: the two are not contradicted. I happened to be allergic. However,
Speaker 1: let me be honest that I can't smoke weed, and
Speaker 1: I found out by well anyway. So the point is,
Speaker 1: the point is ultimately at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: then when we think about who we are as a
Speaker 1: people and what kind of ideas we put forth and
Speaker 1: who we are, I'm just saying, the black conservatives have
Speaker 1: not stood up for it. So Clarence Thomas probably has
Speaker 1: animus toward people because they mistreated him as a dark
Speaker 1: sanded black man. But what he's done since has more
Speaker 1: than paid us back, the furious indifference to the being
Speaker 1: of black people deciding what folks even when conservative white
Speaker 1: folks are how you going too far, Clarence Thomas said,
Speaker 1: you ain't gone far enough. We have authenticated these people
Speaker 1: to a certain degree by not speaking out vociferously against them.
Speaker 1: And I'm saying again with Candice Owns, she might feel
Speaker 1: that George Floyd represented a certain threat, but when it
Speaker 1: comes down to facts versus fiction, it ain't even true.
Speaker 3: And we got to hold people accountable for that.
Speaker 4: I guess for me, I feel like somebody like Clarence Thomas, Yeah,
Speaker 4: I can understand holding him accountable, somebody like Candace Ows
Speaker 4: and it could just be me. It's just like she's
Speaker 4: not an elected official. She's the person with a platform
Speaker 4: on YouTube the podcast. Sure, like, how much are we
Speaker 4: supposed to argue about something like that, especially when we
Speaker 4: already know the truth. The troop is right there in
Speaker 4: your face, the cops who killed George Floyd dre in prison.
Speaker 4: You know, we saw George Floyd get killed, the coroners
Speaker 4: that he got choked out, and that's what this cause
Speaker 4: of death.
Speaker 3: Watching it run and argue with somebody.
Speaker 1: Well, because the thing is is that her viewpoints until
Speaker 1: her I guess she had a blexit from Ben Shapiro,
Speaker 1: so maybe she had a bensis. The point is that
Speaker 1: that influences white other white people, other white conservatives. You
Speaker 1: ideas that filter into legislatures where in Tennessee where I live,
Speaker 1: they kick out to the two young justins and a
Speaker 1: white woman, where it makes a difference in terms of
Speaker 1: shutting up discourse and dialogue about beliefs that they don't
Speaker 1: cherish about closing down conversations about who owns, guns and
Speaker 1: the nut. So the influence of that platform has far
Speaker 1: reaching consequence in ways that we can determine. In some
Speaker 1: ways we may not be immediately able to determine, but
Speaker 1: that have an effect on white folk who think about
Speaker 1: these issues of race and who feel justified because they
Speaker 1: can point to a black face to say, Oh, my god,
Speaker 1: this is what Jason Whitlock believes. This is what Candice
Speaker 1: Owns believes, this is what Glenn Lowry believes. So the
Speaker 1: justification for certain self hating moments of African American politics, ideology,
Speaker 1: and interests is enough to say to us, we got
Speaker 1: to speak up and out against this, because there's a
Speaker 1: relationship between that kind of stuff and the belief that
Speaker 1: Trump represents a certain kind of virtue and value. If
Speaker 1: you hear enough black people or enough times of a
Speaker 1: conservative articulate black person suggesting that this is not a problem,
Speaker 1: it does have consequence, and those little inter you know,
Speaker 1: those are where the little space.
Speaker 3: It's not the most black people who think, oh, that's bullshit.
Speaker 1: We know that, it's enough black people who may not
Speaker 1: understand what the differences are ideologically and politically between what
Speaker 1: they articulate and what the interests of African American people
Speaker 1: are to make a difference.
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people are.
Speaker 2: I agree with with a lot of what you said,
Speaker 2: but I think a lot of people are tied of
Speaker 2: I call it the daddy's law in my house.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: The daddy's law in my house is I said it,
Speaker 2: and you do what I say, don't ask me no questions.
Speaker 2: I feel like that's a lot with Democrats.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: We see things sometimes when we ask a question and
Speaker 2: be like, oh, you're going against us.
Speaker 3: I'm not going against you. I'm asking a question. Right.
Speaker 2: We talked about Body, Right, when you talk about body
Speaker 2: and people thought he had amnesia just watching the things
Speaker 2: that he do. And then when you ask about it,
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, you're going against him, You're given you,
Speaker 2: given you given the Republicans. No, I'm just asking because
Speaker 2: I might not want that.
Speaker 4: Democrats any critique, any critique, critique, automatically making where the
Speaker 4: money goes with this, that.
Speaker 3: And the other.
Speaker 2: If I ask a question or question anybody like anybody like,
Speaker 2: I can question you, you can question me. Doesn't necessarily
Speaker 2: mean we enemies, doesn't mean.
Speaker 3: I'm going against you, but were just having a real conversation.
Speaker 2: And I think that's what bothers a lot of black
Speaker 2: Americans when it comes to Democrats.
Speaker 1: I get that, I mean, but if you think that's
Speaker 1: the problem with Democrats, what in the hell do you
Speaker 1: think that's in regard to Republicans who at least with Democrats,
Speaker 1: you have.
Speaker 3: An argument to be made.
Speaker 1: And by the way, I agree with all that in
Speaker 1: the sense that we should be able to criticize. I
Speaker 1: wrote an entire book as this Generation, as a whole
Speaker 1: book on Barack Obama. And even though I distinguished myself
Speaker 1: from them in terms of how far at least Wes
Speaker 1: was able to go, I think Tavis had a bit
Speaker 1: more decor.
Speaker 3: But but the decorum, I'm sorry, But the point.
Speaker 1: Is this is that, yes, you know, I was out
Speaker 1: there taking strays, uh, because I believe a certain thing
Speaker 1: and I wanted to hold people accountable. Still love them. See,
Speaker 1: I believe in the six inning theory of baseball. As
Speaker 1: you know, this is baseball season, and the sixth inning,
Speaker 1: if it stars raining, whoever is the head is gonna win. Right.
Speaker 1: If you go six innings, whoever's the head gonna win.
Speaker 1: So I think we got to go six innings. That
Speaker 1: means we got to stay on the same team, have
Speaker 1: the message of productive engagement politically for our people, what
Speaker 1: helps us, what hurts us, unidentifying enemies, friends and opponents,
Speaker 1: and then after six innings you got some stuff to
Speaker 1: spread around. So when you make a critical comment like that,
Speaker 1: don't be naive. I'm just being objective and neutral. I'm
Speaker 1: answered raising a question. You ain't just being objective and neutral,
Speaker 1: even if you intend to be the consequence of your
Speaker 1: talk is not your intent may be to be neutral,
Speaker 1: the consequence is it reinforces a certain narrative or belief.
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean you can't be critical because I was critical,
Speaker 1: but I put it in context. I specified how much
Speaker 1: love I had for Obama. I specified what I thought
Speaker 1: he was doing right, talked about the interests he held.
Speaker 1: I talked about how white supremacy ganged up on him.
Speaker 1: But I also said he had three bites at the apple.
Speaker 1: He ain't chose no black woman to be on the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court. He had many opportunities where he spoke up
Speaker 1: and out against black people. I think that his comments
Speaker 1: about and especially his spouse in regard to Jeremia Wright,
Speaker 1: were wholly gratuitous and destructive. After the fact. So I
Speaker 1: got criticisms, but I got to understand the degree to
Speaker 1: which they play into a narrative that either supports my
Speaker 1: beliefs or undercuts them. So there's no kind of objective.
Speaker 1: This our comedian point of objectivity. I stand outside the
Speaker 1: flow of human history. No, bro, you down here with
Speaker 1: West Montgomery on the ground, as y'all probably too young,
Speaker 1: remember West Montgomery, the great jazz guitarist, down here on
Speaker 1: the ground. We're down here on the ground. So it's
Speaker 1: not that we can't be critical, But I'm saying, what's
Speaker 1: your critique of a political order where Republicans don't even
Speaker 1: give a damn about who you are? At least what
Speaker 1: Democrats you can push them? At least with democrats. Minute
Speaker 1: you said you claimed you were part of, and then you.
Speaker 3: Fill into blanks. So what are you doing? You're failing us.
Speaker 1: That kind of critique is is quite necessary and powerful,
Speaker 1: and when we do it, however, is extremely powerful as well,
Speaker 1: and we have to be strategic about.
Speaker 3: It to do it. It's all right.
Speaker 1: Time in the election is a damn good time.
Speaker 3: Here's my point.
Speaker 1: It's four years in between. Where is the critique It's
Speaker 1: been happening I mean, look, look, there's no question Biden
Speaker 1: can say, hey, calm down with some of that, because
Speaker 1: you've been consistent in the critique. But I'm saying we
Speaker 1: got to be strategic about what we're saying, and when
Speaker 1: we're saying that, I'm not saying, surrender your capacity as
Speaker 1: a free thinking person. But what kills me, what cracks
Speaker 1: me up? When I hear canvas ons and and Kanye,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about getting off the Democratic plantation?
Speaker 3: What damn plantation do you.
Speaker 1: Think you're on?
Speaker 3: When you are with Ben Shapiro.
Speaker 1: When you were with Donald Trump, you owned the biggest
Speaker 1: plantation at all, the mental one, the one that is
Speaker 1: exercising your mind, and the ventriloquism of white supremacy, black
Speaker 1: mouth moving, white ideas flowing out of you. So please
Speaker 1: tell me when you disparage and legitimately criticize so called
Speaker 1: plantations politics of the Democrats, What damn plantation are.
Speaker 3: You speaking for? What master's voice are you amplifying when
Speaker 3: you say that?
Speaker 4: I agree with you wholeheartedly, And I also say I
Speaker 4: feel like black people in particular, we shouldn't be beholden
Speaker 4: to any party. I don't think these fanatics over Democrats
Speaker 4: are insane to me. These fanatics over conservatives are insane
Speaker 4: to me. We should always be looking at who and
Speaker 4: what serves our best interests. I don't even think we
Speaker 4: should be talking about voting for individuals.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about the.
Speaker 4: Ideas and the ideas that that individual is putting on
Speaker 4: the table. But I think that'll get you, father, But
Speaker 4: let me in a conversation with you.
Speaker 3: Let me ask you this. Here's the point. Why are
Speaker 3: black people stupid? I don't think so. No, not are
Speaker 3: they dumb?
Speaker 1: I don't think so. So why is it that black
Speaker 1: people are voting for the Democrats. It's not because they're
Speaker 1: on a damn plantation. Because at least the Democrats they
Speaker 1: serve limitis, They serve our best interests.
Speaker 3: So you know the old saying, no permanent party, just
Speaker 3: permanent interests.
Speaker 1: I get that. But our interests have been tied up
Speaker 1: with people who at least are willing to listen to us.
Speaker 1: Tell me what interests of African American people accept a
Speaker 1: few black rappers that Donald Trump got out of jail.
Speaker 1: What black person can point to him and say these
Speaker 1: This man articulates the interests of my community, embraces us
Speaker 1: as a people understands our plight. In predicament, he's talking
Speaker 1: about shitthold countries, many of whom, many of which are
Speaker 1: countries of color black people in them. This is a
Speaker 1: dude consistently talking about hurting and harming Black people, using
Speaker 1: the police power of the state to circumscribe.
Speaker 3: Us and to undermine us.
Speaker 1: So I'm saying, even by your litmus tests, the Republicans
Speaker 1: ain't gotten nothing for us. This ain't old school Republicans.
Speaker 1: Back in when Nelson Rockefeller was a Republican, my god,
Speaker 1: or William Cohen was a Republican, a liberal Republican. That's
Speaker 1: unheard of at this point. So there are some people
Speaker 1: who are certainly in the history in the history books,
Speaker 1: who are Republicans, who are down with us. That's that's
Speaker 1: why black people were a Republican. When I hear Republicans,
Speaker 1: we are the Party of Lincoln, Brodad was a long
Speaker 1: time ago. That was a long long time ago when
Speaker 1: the Republican Party was concerned about our interests and the
Speaker 1: Democratic Party represented as part of the Dixiecrats and others
Speaker 1: who were a Southern base against the best interests of
Speaker 1: black people.
Speaker 3: I'm saying, even by your litmus tests.
Speaker 1: Why are we wen talking about what Republicans done because
Speaker 1: they don't give a damn And let me just say this,
Speaker 1: when you look at the fact that in these state legislatures,
Speaker 1: thirty eight out of fifty of them are run by
Speaker 1: Republicans and they don't give a good gosh darn.
Speaker 3: About black people.
Speaker 1: They're voting against us, They're creating rules and restrictions against us.
Speaker 1: The voting has been made far more difficult. Even conservative
Speaker 1: courts say you are going too far. You've redrawn the maps.
Speaker 1: They don't respect the integrity of black voting. The Voting
Speaker 1: Rights Act, which has been gutted but still powerful enough
Speaker 1: to provide an umbrella for us, is being assaulted and
Speaker 1: attacked every day. Why would we even vote for anybody
Speaker 1: who's part of that party?
Speaker 3: And everything you're saying is absolutely correct.
Speaker 4: But what I want us to start doing is just
Speaker 4: look at the things that these people are doing that
Speaker 4: is getting people's attention. You dismissed something, right, you said that,
Speaker 4: you said that he let out three black rappers. It's
Speaker 4: not even about the black rappers. It's about the first
Speaker 4: step back. Whenever somebody can just point to something and
Speaker 4: say that is a tangible thing that person did that
Speaker 4: I actually saw for myself, right, that helped somebody in
Speaker 4: my community. They'll gravitate towards that.
Speaker 1: OK. I get that, But but Eric Holder really reduced
Speaker 1: the disparity between powder cocaine and crack cocaine, which you
Speaker 1: know disproportionately assaulted us when you.
Speaker 3: See it and market it well though, Okay.
Speaker 1: What do you want the commercial? The product?
Speaker 3: The commercial? Okay, it's a campaign, I understand, Look.
Speaker 1: But I'm saying the product is more precious than the commercial,
Speaker 1: although we do need the commercial the campaign to articulate
Speaker 1: what it's done.
Speaker 4: If I'm on further the body right now, everybody that
Speaker 4: I gave student loans, that really to right.
Speaker 3: And commercials running over little bit within It's a bunk
Speaker 3: with these people.
Speaker 4: Brother saying, hey, I got three hundred thousand dollars taking
Speaker 4: off my student loan deb now I'm able to open
Speaker 4: a business.
Speaker 3: I would just have them constantly.
Speaker 1: Against none of that, as they say, I'm not against
Speaker 1: any of that. But at the same time, we are
Speaker 1: sophisticated enough as the people to understand who in our
Speaker 1: corner who ain't and who can talk about it and
Speaker 1: who can't some things Joe Biden like say, for instance,
Speaker 1: I heard some critiques in the State of the Union.
Speaker 1: He didn't mention about DEI. That's because he understands that
Speaker 1: is such a flashpoint right now on the political trajectory
Speaker 1: that for him to endorse that only creates opportunities for
Speaker 1: people to assault it. Not that we don't want it,
Speaker 1: not that we don't need it, not that we're not
Speaker 1: practicing it. We just look. I just saw recently where
Speaker 1: it was finally put into order that the Small Business
Speaker 1: Administration can't even have loans for African American people, got
Speaker 1: to open it up for white folks and others. I'm saying,
Speaker 1: this is the terrain on which we exist. Let's not
Speaker 1: pretend we don't know. We got to wink, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I got you. You ain't got to say everything you know,
Speaker 1: and you ain't got to say everything you doing.
Speaker 3: You got to do it.
Speaker 1: That's what I meant by the commercial versus the product.
Speaker 1: Let's get the praxis, the practice, the political order together,
Speaker 1: and then we can talk about what we say and
Speaker 1: what we're not saying. And look, I am for critique,
Speaker 1: I'm for pushing them. I'm for demanding that we do
Speaker 1: the right thing. But I'm also for understanding we in
Speaker 1: what April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November. That
Speaker 1: ain't a whole bunch of time. So I'm saying there
Speaker 1: some times when we come together to forge a kind
Speaker 1: of unity, or at least provisional solidarity, where we operate
Speaker 1: in our best interest, knowing that we got to do
Speaker 1: the right thing. If Angela Davis, one of the most
Speaker 1: radical and progressive voices in the history of America, especially
Speaker 1: Black America, and Noam Chomsky, one of the most progressive
Speaker 1: voices on the left ever, can both argue about supporting
Speaker 1: Joe Biden, it that at least should give us pause
Speaker 1: to all of the please mercenary interventions by narcissistic political
Speaker 1: figures who want to have their day in the sunlight
Speaker 1: as opposed to the best interest of black people in
Speaker 1: this country.
Speaker 4: I think Donald Trump is a fascist. I think he's
Speaker 4: a threat to democracy. I don't think that, you know,
Speaker 4: anybody who calls himself a patriots should want somebody in
Speaker 4: the White House who wanted to suspend the Constitution to
Speaker 4: overthrow the results of Absolutely yes, But with all of
Speaker 4: that on the table, what do you say to people
Speaker 4: who say, so what, Well.
Speaker 3: I mean, like, I'm just saying I'm just as Like,
Speaker 3: what do you say.
Speaker 1: I hate to sound like the patriots on the right wing,
Speaker 1: but going somewhere where you think that's the case, bro,
Speaker 1: where you think it doesn't make a difference, where you
Speaker 1: can experience fascism up close, where the rule of law
Speaker 1: operates against you.
Speaker 3: Oh, this country has no crime there.
Speaker 1: That's because they gonna cut your arm off, bro, if
Speaker 1: they catch you in the wrong place, and given not
Speaker 1: breaking and entering inclinations, that would be very hard.
Speaker 4: Now that's how you talk to people who are already
Speaker 4: in hell, because that's when I say, so what I mean, Like,
Speaker 4: there's people already living in hell in this country. So
Speaker 4: when you tell them that, yo, he's the threat of democracy,
Speaker 4: they were like, democracy ain't never worked for us, no.
Speaker 3: Way, Yeah, but that's democracy ain't gonna get worse.
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, if they in hell, you got
Speaker 1: to look at the conversation between Divies and Lazarus. Divies
Speaker 1: was a rich man in hell and Lazarus ends up
Speaker 1: going to heaven.
Speaker 3: So I'm not saying there's a great reversal. But you
Speaker 3: tell people who.
Speaker 1: Are in hell?
Speaker 3: Do you want to get it hotter?
Speaker 1: I mean there are degrees right, the sixth circle of
Speaker 1: hell if you read Dante. So the point is that
Speaker 1: you tell people, yeah, you in hell. But if you
Speaker 1: think you lonely, now wait.
Speaker 3: Until the night.
Speaker 1: You have a Bobby Womack theology. You've got to have
Speaker 1: a Bobby Womack theology. If you think it's bad, now
Speaker 1: wait until the night.
Speaker 3: Girl.
Speaker 1: So black people got to understand that there are degrees
Speaker 1: to this, right, and when we look at the degrees
Speaker 1: to this, yes, it is tough.
Speaker 3: Child poverty is still real.
Speaker 1: The attack on black women's bodies is still real, the
Speaker 1: dismissal of African American is still real. But it is.
Speaker 1: If it's bad, Now, what in the hell do you
Speaker 1: think is going to be when a fascist takes over,
Speaker 1: When a guy who doesn't even who's not even interested
Speaker 1: in your particular viewpoint or your suffering takes over. Yes,
Speaker 1: he can go to a darn Chick fil a right
Speaker 1: now and tell you that Joe Biden is the worst
Speaker 1: president in the history. That's another lie he's telling. So
Speaker 1: if we don't think that it makes a difference. And look,
Speaker 1: it's hard for people who are suffering to hear that.
Speaker 1: But our people have always suffered, They've always been in hell.
Speaker 1: But they've always understood that if we use a certain
Speaker 1: kind of particular perspective to get a certain way, if
Speaker 1: we use a certain instrument to realize our ultimate ambitions.
Speaker 1: As Howard Thurman, the Great Mystic said, refuse the temptation
Speaker 1: to scale down your dreams to what you're experiencing right
Speaker 1: now now. And enough Black people, And it wasn't rich
Speaker 1: black people who believe that. It wasn't it wasn't people
Speaker 1: who are wealthy who believe that. These are everyday people
Speaker 1: on the plantation, These are everyday folk in the hood.
Speaker 1: These are everyday people who are shared. They understood that
Speaker 1: Hope had a message, and the message was beyond what
Speaker 1: we can see and hear right now. There is something real.
Speaker 1: That's why all these preachers spend Sunday mornings talking about God.
Speaker 1: You step out on nothing and something is there. It's
Speaker 1: not just magical kumbai ya, It's not abra kadabra. This
Speaker 1: is about the heart of hope that animates most Black
Speaker 1: activity in this country.
Speaker 3: Afro pessimism is real.
Speaker 1: I respect of Frank Wilderson, I respect the theorists of
Speaker 1: Afro pessimism because they tell us the stark truth that
Speaker 1: we need to grapple with. But there's been a tradition
Speaker 1: of hope within black people that makes no sense, that
Speaker 1: is not even justified. That is absurd, and Afro absurdism
Speaker 1: is a key to our survival. So Howard Thurman said,
Speaker 1: the wrong rows of cotton, the raw hide, e whip
Speaker 1: of the overseer. But our slave fore parents imagine a
Speaker 1: different future. And this is what I want to say
Speaker 1: when black people, this is the words, Oh my God,
Speaker 1: is her Your mama's and daddy's, your great gad great
Speaker 1: grandmamas and great granddaddy's suffered far more than what we're
Speaker 1: suffering now. And if they had the possibility of nurturing
Speaker 1: hope in their breasts, we have the obligation to do
Speaker 1: the same.
Speaker 3: If you can't do it for yourself, do it for
Speaker 3: your kids.
Speaker 1: If you can't do it for your kids, remember Grandma
Speaker 1: in them and how you are the manifestation of their
Speaker 1: very hope. And to get caught in that Heller situation,
Speaker 1: you think you in hell? Imagine going out and working
Speaker 1: for seventeen hours a day. You think you in hell.
Speaker 1: Imagine having no rights and her ability to assert what
Speaker 1: your beliefs are. You think you in hell? What about
Speaker 1: when you had no choice but to do what a
Speaker 1: slave master told you when you were raped, that will,
Speaker 1: without moral compunction or legal redress. That was hell. And
Speaker 1: in the midst of that hell, those black people held
Speaker 1: up and held out hope as our condition if they
Speaker 1: could do it. I ain't trying to hear nothing from
Speaker 1: people right now.
Speaker 4: What do you think is fair or unfair in regards
Speaker 4: to critique of personality? Like what is considered fair unfairl
Speaker 4: Because I'm a person that believes you just can't say
Speaker 4: what you want to say and expect everybody to agree.
Speaker 4: Some people are going to like it, some people are
Speaker 4: not going to like it. And with social media math,
Speaker 4: people don't have an opinion about.
Speaker 1: I mean, and look, critique is one thing that that
Speaker 1: means I'm engaging you. I'm talking to you, but you
Speaker 1: and I'm looking at what you said. I read what
Speaker 1: you said, I put it in context, and then I
Speaker 1: have a response. But that's different than you just assaulting me.
Speaker 1: That's just different than you saying stuff that ain't even true,
Speaker 1: making it up and here now we got deep fakes.
Speaker 1: We're worried about AI. The only AI I did is
Speaker 1: Alan Iverson. Other than that, bro, it's rough. So the
Speaker 1: thing is this, we got deep fakes, we got lies,
Speaker 1: we got mendacities. Look at the convergence of the technology
Speaker 1: and the techniques of fascism. The technology facilitates and it's
Speaker 1: complicit with the spread of a certain kind of fascist
Speaker 1: reality because now we don't we're not sure it was real,
Speaker 1: was not? And Black people should be the last people
Speaker 1: taking allegations as convictions.
Speaker 3: Lord, have mercy.
Speaker 1: I mean, how can you just say something and then
Speaker 1: convict somebody black people, of all people. I heard Dominique Martissau,
Speaker 1: the great playwright say as bad and as jacked up
Speaker 1: as the criminal justice system is. I'll take that any
Speaker 1: day over somebody just saying something about you, and then
Speaker 1: that's taking his law. And that's across the board. That's
Speaker 1: whether it blm me to whatever.
Speaker 3: The point is.
Speaker 1: An allegation alone cannot substantiate or produce evidence to make
Speaker 1: a claim worthwhile. But we see this on social media,
Speaker 1: and let me tell you what I get. Look, people
Speaker 1: jump on me sometimes. Look I try to be nice
Speaker 1: to them. They say nasty stuff and I'm nice and
Speaker 1: they're embarrassed.
Speaker 3: Some of them have no shame. I done wrote twenty
Speaker 3: five books. You wrote twenty five words. Dog, it ain't e.
Speaker 3: We're not the same, right, And.
Speaker 1: That's not arrogant. That's I did the work. I actually studied,
Speaker 1: I thought about it, I reflect on it. That don't
Speaker 1: mean I'm right because people who have thought about it
Speaker 1: and studied on it are disagreeing with me. So disagreement
Speaker 1: is not the index of one lacking intelligence and one
Speaker 1: possessing it. It means that we have the considered reflection
Speaker 1: on a particular issue. And the Internet don't even create
Speaker 1: the need for that, the desire for that. We think
Speaker 1: we can go on and read something. That's the beauty.
Speaker 1: The beauty of digital media is that you can have
Speaker 1: books or library books in your phone and you can
Speaker 1: read twenty five books. I used to have to carry
Speaker 1: them on the plane. Now you can put them in
Speaker 1: your kindle and read them. That's beautiful. The problem is
Speaker 1: when we when we had kind of the visceral interaction
Speaker 1: with the paparide the text, we had to read it.
Speaker 1: We went to the library because that's where the lies
Speaker 1: are buried. We went there to dig them up, and
Speaker 1: we look at the card catalog. That ain't the kind
Speaker 1: of catalog you got when you got five hundred's numbers
Speaker 1: that night, and them cars were talking about we talking
Speaker 1: about one't eighty seven point nine.
Speaker 3: That wasn't a local radio station. That was where social
Speaker 3: science was.
Speaker 1: My point is there was something about earning that knowledge
Speaker 1: and digging for that knowledge and feeling that you couldn't
Speaker 1: just take it for granted.
Speaker 3: And we have tremendous access now we know, we.
Speaker 1: Have the possibility to know more than we've ever known before,
Speaker 1: and we know less than we've ever known because we
Speaker 1: don't have the same kind of curiosity because we think
Speaker 1: now because we can and say something to somebody, I
Speaker 1: like Charlemagne, the God, I can jack him up because
Speaker 1: I have access to him now. Before you had to
Speaker 1: go to this office write him a letter. He might
Speaker 1: not He might not have written you back, Doc, Dear
Speaker 1: Doctor King, I disagree with the integration.
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: You don't have that kind of access. You didn't have
Speaker 1: that kind of access then that you have now. So
Speaker 1: it's as a marvel. But the problem is everybody got
Speaker 1: an opinion. Everybody thinks it's equally valuable. And because you
Speaker 1: can insult somebody. Do you think with the rhetorical capacity
Speaker 1: I possess, I couldn't evisterate you. You don't think I
Speaker 1: could do that too. You think that you're the only
Speaker 1: one who possesses the ability to call a MF and
Speaker 1: MF mother fo.
Speaker 3: I grew up into hisze Rizi nizza briso.
Speaker 1: I could get at you. I can cuss you out
Speaker 1: more than you think I can. But the point is
Speaker 1: I have restraints because I understand my power like a
Speaker 1: like a like an old gun slinger. When you come
Speaker 1: to town, put your registerial guns. I got a bazooka
Speaker 1: on my hip. I could eviscerate you. The point is,
Speaker 1: can we have common sense and civility? I know a
Speaker 1: lot people have said civility is a problematic because sometimes
Speaker 1: you got to be disruptive. I get that, but I'm saying,
Speaker 1: for the most part, when you shutting people down and
Speaker 1: you don't want them to that's your yes, your go
Speaker 1: shut up? You know, and you're talking, shut up? What
Speaker 1: about when they shut you up? What about when you
Speaker 1: can't talk?
Speaker 3: That can't help us.
Speaker 1: It's like an eye for an eye as doctor King said,
Speaker 1: everybody be blind. So the point is, if we all
Speaker 1: shutting each other out, we all hollering each other, we're
Speaker 1: all protesting each other, can we ever speak? So I'm
Speaker 1: for speaking and listening. I'm not for cancel culture. I'm
Speaker 1: for engaging people. I'm for talking to other people, and
Speaker 1: I'm for saying, yes, let's talk and.
Speaker 4: We can be critical confrontational conversation, I mean conversation, obal conferenceation.
Speaker 1: How about that? Criticism is not jumping on you, being
Speaker 1: nasty about you saying you know what, Dyson, I noticed
Speaker 1: you said X, Y, and Z, but you didn't say
Speaker 1: this holding holding.
Speaker 3: Me to account.
Speaker 1: We should be able to do that. And I think
Speaker 1: that's why I mentioned about a Manda sales or I
Speaker 1: know you and I had a conversation about about the
Speaker 1: young Jonathan Owens and I posted yesterday and you know
Speaker 1: or right right Simon Bio's husband, and people kept saying,
Speaker 1: you ain't the whole conversation.
Speaker 3: I listened to the whole conversation.
Speaker 1: In fact, there's worse than that, because at one point
Speaker 1: he goes, look, she's the one who kind of you know,
Speaker 1: match with me, and something he says, she keeps saying
Speaker 1: she matched, but it was really her. I'm saying, bro,
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to dog Jonathan on us because that's look.
Speaker 1: I've been mad three times, clearly to black women. So
Speaker 1: clearly I see on the end of people be saying
Speaker 1: he got a white wife. I ain't mad if I
Speaker 1: had a white wife. I walk in the room with
Speaker 1: a white wife. I ain't had no white wife. I
Speaker 1: wrote a book called Why I Love Black Women, so
Speaker 1: I done married three of them. My point is, so
Speaker 1: I got look the vast reservoir of failure I can
Speaker 1: share with you. I can talk to you about it.
Speaker 1: I'm saying, let's just put the young man on game.
Speaker 1: When you got a woman like that, This is the
Speaker 1: point you made again about intent versus consequence. You intent
Speaker 1: could have been funny, You inten could have been yeah, girl,
Speaker 1: you were chasing me. Look at the consequence in the
Speaker 1: world where black women are bitches and holes and skeezers
Speaker 1: and slupts and dismissed and not recognized.
Speaker 3: And not valued.
Speaker 1: So when you say that, the reason I juxtaposed Trevor Kelsey,
Speaker 1: who's far more famous than you, young man, who says
Speaker 1: I'm just lucky that I even got a chance to
Speaker 1: holler her because you know about sports and everything like that,
Speaker 1: talking about Taylor Swift. I'm saying, the contradistinction is not
Speaker 1: to demoralize this young man, is to put you on
Speaker 1: game game, grown ass man energy in light, grown ass
Speaker 1: man enlightenment. I'm sixty five years old, I'm officially grown,
Speaker 1: and I'm saying to you, bro, lift your woman up strategically,
Speaker 1: if not even substantively, understand that she is valuable to you.
Speaker 1: If this woman is one of the most famous gymnasts
Speaker 1: and arguably the greatest gymnasts in the history of gymnastic
Speaker 1: exploitation and performance, ain't nobody doubting that, then at least
Speaker 1: at this point, don't look like you're trying to to
Speaker 1: besmirch her. And again, it was a joke. I get
Speaker 1: people who defend it. I understand that. At the end
Speaker 1: of the day, though, uplift that woman, elevate that woman,
Speaker 1: happy wife, happy life. And I'm sure he's having a
Speaker 1: beautiful time, he's doing beautiful things.
Speaker 3: I wasn't trying to jam him up. I'm trying to
Speaker 3: say to young people.
Speaker 1: However, in a culture where women have been demonized, stigmatized,
Speaker 1: and continue to be We got rappers talking about I
Speaker 1: only want to deal with a light skinned woman. I
Speaker 1: only you know, Kodak black er. You know, I don't
Speaker 1: want to deal with this woman and so on and
Speaker 1: so for and hurting her and looking at making the
Speaker 1: stallion and siding with a guy who shot her in
Speaker 1: the foot. I'm just saying, this is the world in
Speaker 1: which black women live, and if we can't acknowledge that,
Speaker 1: and put on top of that the ability to get
Speaker 1: an abortion, you know who, that affects more than anybody us.
Speaker 1: So I'm just asking for a little consideration and a
Speaker 1: little knowledge dropping from an older man, That's all I'm.
Speaker 4: Gonna I sent you another article with He is always
Speaker 4: gushing over her, and he is always pointing to her,
Speaker 4: but also to what if he was just telling.
Speaker 3: This story she did? What if she did try to
Speaker 3: holler him that's why they got together.
Speaker 1: But she she argued with him on She argued with
Speaker 1: him on say, she said, d ain't what happened. She said,
Speaker 1: you had already liked me, and because you liked me,
Speaker 1: then I therefore reached out.
Speaker 3: I'm saying, and that, look, that's their business. I don't
Speaker 3: want to get into it. I thought the would joking,
Speaker 3: but I just wondered why he wasn't.
Speaker 1: Joking at that point when he said, nah, you keep
Speaker 1: saying that I and even if he was. Look, my
Speaker 1: point is this, I'm not even trying to get in
Speaker 1: today thing. I'm trying to talk about the consequence of
Speaker 1: what might mean that brought an issue in terms of
Speaker 1: elevating black women. Black women get enough of? You ain't
Speaker 1: enough Black women get enough of. I don't care how
Speaker 1: much you got, you ain't whatever. And when he says I.
Speaker 3: Always think the man is the catch, bro. Now that's
Speaker 3: classic definition of patriarchy. Bro.
Speaker 1: I don't know what world you don't think when I
Speaker 1: always say the man is the catch, deconstruct that for me.
Speaker 3: What does that mean?
Speaker 1: Oh so you're dealing with Simon Bios, the most noteworthy
Speaker 1: gymnast in the history of America, but you still to catch.
Speaker 1: Now people say, well, he should have that kind of confidence.
Speaker 1: I ain't mad at your confidence. I'm saying, what is
Speaker 1: it about us as men that we can't acknowledge our women.
Speaker 1: We go to church, they already defering to us, ain't
Speaker 1: but five men in church, but they the deacon and
Speaker 1: the pastor and the cleaner and everything and the trustee.
Speaker 1: Because women understand the fragile psychology of black men who
Speaker 1: have been emasculated in a white supremacist culture where another
Speaker 1: patriarch is a threat to another patriarch, they then already
Speaker 1: done that work. When I go out out here, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure you two, both of y'all, when you go
Speaker 1: out here and see black men's concerns being talked about,
Speaker 1: Susan Taylor is at the front of the line, right. Uh,
Speaker 1: black women are always speaking up for black men. I'm saying,
Speaker 1: can we return the favor and what I mean by
Speaker 1: the broader society in a world where black women have
Speaker 1: been demonized, even the greatest of them have to be
Speaker 1: told that no, the man you got is the catch
Speaker 1: because you're living in a world where black women may
Speaker 1: not have access to the greatest amount of black men
Speaker 1: because of prison and choices and so on and so forth.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, bro, at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: a little love, try a little tenderness.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's All's.
Speaker 4: Another example to me is like the relationship thing. Keep
Speaker 4: that away from the strangers on social media. Let that
Speaker 4: be an inside conversation y'all laugh and joke about amongst
Speaker 4: each other's at dinner.
Speaker 3: As soon as you bring it to social media, stuff
Speaker 3: like this happened.
Speaker 1: But but I think it's helpful. They might not care.
Speaker 2: It might be their relationship, they had jokes, their problem
Speaker 2: with their situation had.
Speaker 3: I think it's hard not to kill when everybody jokes.
Speaker 1: Jokes grow out of social situations, grow out of social value.
Speaker 3: That's what they are, right, of course, because they reflect.
Speaker 2: If I start a light on my relationship with my wife,
Speaker 2: people might think it's disrespectful, but it's me and my wife.
Speaker 3: We joke all the time. You know, you're a great example.
Speaker 4: And they put their book out and he said in
Speaker 4: his book that he had made his wife orgasm in
Speaker 4: a decade.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, but that's on him. He should have kept himselves.
Speaker 1: But that's on him. Women saying I didn't is a
Speaker 1: hero because most big I hear you. Because I couldn't
Speaker 1: do it for three years, I can do it for
Speaker 1: seven years. He's saying, I'm the one that's But he's.
Speaker 4: Still made something public that he didn't have to make public.
Speaker 2: But the reason I made it public is because of
Speaker 2: stories and conversations that I have with people when I
Speaker 2: do my podcast, and just see if you don't read it.
Speaker 4: Wasn't the fact that I didn't make a come is
Speaker 4: the fact that I couldn't.
Speaker 3: Make it come sexually orally. I was good money.
Speaker 1: The problem was, and what I was trying to explain,
Speaker 1: he can run his mouth. He can run his mouth.
Speaker 1: Me and my wife and together since she was sixteen.
Speaker 2: And what I was saying is most men need to
Speaker 2: have conversation, especially with this some because when I looked
Speaker 2: at sex.
Speaker 1: I watched porn.
Speaker 2: So I used to go in there like bang bang
Speaker 2: bang bang bang bang. It wasn't romantic, it wasn't physical.
Speaker 2: I was trying to be a porn star and it
Speaker 2: wasn't connecting. But once we figured that out, our relationship
Speaker 2: became better.
Speaker 3: To these days.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying, but wait a minute, but see the
Speaker 1: difference is his was a moment of vulnerability.
Speaker 3: Correct, My man's moment was a moment of mach mo.
Speaker 3: Let's just be real.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can joke, but the joke is reflective
Speaker 1: of a temperament, an idea, a politic, an ideology. And
Speaker 1: I'm saying again that's their business. You're right, because I
Speaker 1: ain't want to put my business out there because there's
Speaker 1: plenty of failures and flaws for people to pick apart.
Speaker 3: My point is when I say game though, bruh.
Speaker 1: Even if you believe that respect your woman, elevate your woman,
Speaker 1: understand that in a culture where she's already been demonized
Speaker 1: as a dark skinned black woman, that could be deeply
Speaker 1: and profoundly problematic as well.
Speaker 3: And it wasn't ten years. I wouldn't say that wasn't
Speaker 3: ten years. You started to Michaelaeric Dyson, how you do?
Speaker 3: It's just hilarious. How you doing?
Speaker 1: I'm good?
Speaker 3: I heard all the bank bank, bank, bank, bang, what's
Speaker 3: going on?
Speaker 4: What's going on? Let's let's talk about Beyonce Man and
Speaker 4: what she did with with with with Cowboy Carter?
Speaker 3: What do you? What do you? What does it significant?
Speaker 3: You jumping? Did you come in case you heard something
Speaker 3: that you wanted to say? No? I was like, what's
Speaker 3: going on?
Speaker 1: At first I heard the Cantons owns and Trump, Angela Davis.
Speaker 3: You're talking about your father, and then it was like
Speaker 3: a lot going on.
Speaker 1: Then I heard bank bank bank point.
Speaker 3: I'm like, what what's going on? Mister Marcus is in
Speaker 3: the house.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, can still but.
Speaker 4: Look what's the significance of what she has just done
Speaker 4: with this cowboy carter out.
Speaker 3: It's incredible.
Speaker 1: First of all, she's reunited a constituency of country music
Speaker 1: that has been alienated, like rock music. Black people right,
Speaker 1: not only the banjo in the Caribbean and in North America.
Speaker 1: Hearkening back with an ear to Africa, right, because it
Speaker 1: wasn't a same thing. It didn't come over here untranslated.
Speaker 1: We did stuff, We fiddled, no pun intended with it
Speaker 1: to make it what it is today. So black people
Speaker 1: have been in the country my daddy from the beginning.
Speaker 1: My daddy was from George and mama from Alabama. We
Speaker 1: listened to the country and Detroit I'm Proud to be
Speaker 1: and Okie from Muscogee. We listening to people whose politics
Speaker 1: were diametrically opposed to ours. I love a lot of
Speaker 1: country people who, if they knew who I was, would
Speaker 1: find me reprehensible. So we understood the power of the music.
Speaker 1: Read Foley listening to this program, Hank Williams, Hey, good.
Speaker 3: Looking, what you got cooking? How's about cooking something up
Speaker 3: with me?
Speaker 1: Right? We listened to that. We listened to George Jones,
Speaker 1: he's stopped loving her today. Now we didn't see in
Speaker 1: the song he stopped loving her because he was dead.
Speaker 1: But that was an interesting thing. Or Lee Greenwood who
Speaker 1: Donald Trump has made a bible based on his song,
Speaker 1: So you know, I find him quite reprehensible, but his
Speaker 1: music was powerful. He was talking about a woman who
Speaker 1: cheated him. He said she had a ring on her finger,
Speaker 1: be time on her hands. Damn, come on, bright, I mean,
Speaker 1: come on, I mean or or the song. You know,
Speaker 1: if I had killed you when I met you, I
Speaker 1: would have been out jail by now. I mean.
Speaker 3: It's some great classics in there.
Speaker 1: What right, there's some there's some gangst the country.
Speaker 3: My point is, what what?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 3: What she did?
Speaker 1: What Beyonce did was reintroduced. Allow me to reintroduce myself.
Speaker 1: Allow America to understand that country music, right, it's the
Speaker 1: white blues and blues might be.
Speaker 3: The black country.
Speaker 1: It's a similar aperture, it's a similar appetite, it's a
Speaker 1: similar perspective. And what she is introduced. She's from Houston.
Speaker 1: What do you think she listened to Besides R and
Speaker 1: B or soul and rock music and so on, she
Speaker 1: listened to country music to black folk music. And what
Speaker 1: she has done is introduce people to folks that they
Speaker 1: never even knew before. The black girls backing her up,
Speaker 1: Miss d you know, Britney Spencer, all of them. She
Speaker 1: introduced the Linda Martel, who was a great singer and songwriter.
Speaker 1: She introduces a black woman, She introduced her to him
Speaker 1: to her. Think about Ray Charles. Ray Charles made an
Speaker 1: album what Songs of a Country in Western? Right, sounds
Speaker 1: of country and Western I'm getting the title wrong. But
Speaker 1: the country establishment rejected him, and yet he gave a
Speaker 1: greater audience to country music than it had for a
Speaker 1: long time. Beyonce is doing the same thing, even th
Speaker 1: when some people might try to hate on her. The
Speaker 1: fact is she has made country cool as one of
Speaker 1: the artists things again, and she's made it viable, and
Speaker 1: she's made it controversial in the most productive fashion. That
Speaker 1: is to say, she's forced people to consider what is country?
Speaker 1: How do we define it? Is it Reba McIntyre? Is
Speaker 1: it Dolly pardon? She flips Dolly pardon. No, I ain't
Speaker 1: gonna say, hey, Joe Lean, you're taking my man. I'm
Speaker 1: saying I'm threatening you. You bet not touch him, so
Speaker 1: she adds her Beyonce moment. She says, this is not
Speaker 1: a country album. It's a Beyonce album, which means I
Speaker 1: am the impresario of my own musical taste. They can
Speaker 1: include country music and I can dip down in it,
Speaker 1: show you I can do it, and then dip out
Speaker 1: and show you I can do other things. I think
Speaker 1: what she's done is extraordinary. It's powerful, it's instructive, and again,
Speaker 1: like she does with most of her music, it helps
Speaker 1: us understand a history, an archive, a tradition, a trajectory,
Speaker 1: and the power of what she represents is far more
Speaker 1: than some sexy woman on the cover, even the cover
Speaker 1: with the American flag right the blue being obscured because
Speaker 1: of justice, as some have interpreted the blood flowing, her
Speaker 1: ability to be vulnerable at the same time to lay
Speaker 1: claim to what it means to be an American. She's courageous,
Speaker 1: she's powerful, and that album is dope.
Speaker 4: We had Alex randelon and she said she said the
Speaker 4: same thing about Rachel. She actually said, Beyonce is Ray
Speaker 4: Charles's daughter, because she speaks about the first family of
Speaker 4: Black country music.
Speaker 3: She said, for the same.
Speaker 4: Reason you said Ray Charles bought a brand new audience
Speaker 4: to country music, made the audience bigger.
Speaker 3: Beyonce doing the same thing now she.
Speaker 1: Is, I mean, and even the black people like, why
Speaker 1: are we doing that a cowboy head? Why she's doing
Speaker 1: like a white folk that's you don't even understand. They
Speaker 1: didn't white and ize Joe imagination so deep. You don't
Speaker 1: understand what y'all gave to the to the art home.
Speaker 1: And when I think about my friend Dennis sa Cher
Speaker 1: and his lovely wife, uh, they are out here the cheres, uh,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: Doing serious work. He's a cowboy champion.
Speaker 1: She's an articulate spokeswoman, uh for not only cosmetics, but
Speaker 1: for country music. They started a radio you know. Uh
Speaker 1: uh not a radio, but a music group. They started
Speaker 1: their own record label. I mean, black people are doing
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. They're dead with Dick Bill Pickett.
Speaker 1: I study these people in the fifth grade. My teacher
Speaker 1: made us study them. There's a long tradition of black cowboys,
Speaker 1: of black country artists, of people who've been doing stuff,
Speaker 1: and yet we don't give them credit. And Beyonce has
Speaker 1: single handedly resurrected like she did would Act one when
Speaker 1: she delved into the history of dance right, you know,
Speaker 1: dance and house music, and to show the gay esthetic
Speaker 1: at the heart of that tradition, and now coming back
Speaker 1: with the country stuff and showing how we've been involved
Speaker 1: in it.
Speaker 3: Just the level of her genius is remarkable.
Speaker 4: I got one last question for you, because we talked
Speaker 4: about male vulnerability. You know, we saw J Cole recently
Speaker 4: apologize to Kendrick Lamar for some they was going back
Speaker 4: and forth on a record, right. I didn't have no
Speaker 4: problem with the apology. I feel like you know, if
Speaker 4: you if it didn't sit well when he said he
Speaker 4: didn't sit well with my spirit, I ain't got no nothing,
Speaker 4: just talk about it didn't.
Speaker 3: Say well with his spirit? What do you think?
Speaker 1: No, I saw you you were bringing about that give
Speaker 1: him the donkey other day out to people who don't
Speaker 1: understand it. What's interesting to me is how Kendrick Lamar
Speaker 1: has escaped all screw that. What's interesting to me is
Speaker 1: that he started this stuff right. Why is it that
Speaker 1: when both Drake and J Cole said with the Big Three,
Speaker 1: they're giving you love, bro, they saying you partly bigg No,
Speaker 1: it ain't no Big Three, it's Big me. Okay, I
Speaker 1: get it. That's the bravado of hip hop and so on.
Speaker 1: I think Kendrick Lamar in many ways is Pac as
Speaker 1: he was Drake and Ja Cole as Poc as he
Speaker 1: could have been. And that's the class right, the evolution
Speaker 1: of Tupac. Right, he dies at what twenty five years old?
Speaker 1: I mean what would he have been at fifty?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: The level of genius he already possessed. Tupac was one
Speaker 1: of the greatest intellectuals in the history of hip hop.
Speaker 1: Off Mike, he was cold on the mic, Somebody wake me,
Speaker 1: I'm dreaming, and started as a seed the semen swimming
Speaker 1: upstream planeted in the womb while screaming on the top
Speaker 1: was my pops, my mama, hollering, stopped from a single drop.
Speaker 3: This is what they got.
Speaker 1: Not to disrespect my people, but my papa was a loser,
Speaker 1: only planning that for Mama was the effort and abuser.
Speaker 1: And even as a seed, I could see his plan
Speaker 1: for me, stranded on welfare, another broken family.
Speaker 3: He was dope. He would have to do together. You
Speaker 3: know so many songs.
Speaker 1: We can do that.
Speaker 3: We can do that.
Speaker 1: But beyond that, his ability to explain, deconstruct and challenge politics.
Speaker 1: And that's why he's still relevant because he was so powerful.
Speaker 1: But he was also a Gemini, right or was he was? He? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he had a lot of going on in his
Speaker 1: mind and he was he was provocative, he was viola
Speaker 1: to I think he was out of control in many ways.
Speaker 1: And that's why I think Kendrick Lamar had him narrate
Speaker 1: right to Pimper Butterfly. Right, he's talking about Paca. I
Speaker 1: have a conversation with pop. One of the greatest acts
Speaker 1: of rhetorical appropriation in genius that is, uh, mister Kendrick
Speaker 1: Lamar's to Pimper Butterfly. But that's why he's He's attracted
Speaker 1: to that part of Tupac. I think j Cole and
Speaker 1: Drake are the more mature expression of a Pac who
Speaker 1: would see, you ain't got to kill everybody, you ain't
Speaker 1: got to dog everybody, You ain't got to be better
Speaker 1: than everybody. Even jay Z said when he's on that
Speaker 1: song with with you know Lil Wayne my heir, so
Speaker 1: here is my wife and I you know, come harder,
Speaker 1: come faster, Why else?
Speaker 3: Why bother?
Speaker 1: It's right. The mature people, the ones who are in
Speaker 1: control of that stuff. They ain't got a damn man,
Speaker 1: because I know who I am. But Kendrick seems to
Speaker 1: be obsessed, even though he's got a pulletzer, even though
Speaker 1: he's brilliant, even though he's a genius. Even though I
Speaker 1: do think Rolling Stone had it wrong though Jay z
Speaker 1: won Kendrick two nds three, Yes, bro, you ain't got
Speaker 1: enough work, right, and you've got great work. But the
Speaker 1: work of Nids, the work of j that's on a
Speaker 1: different order.
Speaker 3: So I'm saying Kendrick, it is too early.
Speaker 1: He's a genius, he's in He's one of the top
Speaker 1: rappers ever. But I say all that to say, look,
Speaker 1: I think Jake Cole was mature. He wasn't. It was
Speaker 1: half hearted anyway, It's not my heart's not in it,
Speaker 1: because he could have destroyed him further than more than
Speaker 1: that he could have. J Cole is a surgeon with
Speaker 1: those words, he's he's precise, He's surgical in his strikes.
Speaker 1: Drake is a monster, right, Jake can't even responded. Maybe
Speaker 1: he'll respond to the name, Maybe Jake Cole. I don't
Speaker 1: think j Cole will. Maybe it with metro booming and
Speaker 1: the future coming out again with their Deluxe. Maybe Kendrick has.
Speaker 3: More to say.
Speaker 1: I think you know, look, it was much sure to
Speaker 1: say I'm not gonna take this in a negative fashion.
Speaker 1: I don't even believe this guy because I love him
Speaker 1: and appreciate him. That should Shane Kendrick. I don't think
Speaker 1: it will. That should say to Kendrick, what am I
Speaker 1: doing wrong? That three men who are great two of
Speaker 1: them recognize me? But I have to be the only
Speaker 1: one in the sandlot to play with the toys because
Speaker 1: I'm the greatest. That's one way of talking about it.
Speaker 1: But there are other ways of talking about masculinity. There
Speaker 1: are other ways of talking about greatness. There are other
Speaker 1: ways of speaking. Because Drake said he was the coldest,
Speaker 1: j Cole said he was the coldest, and Kendrick said
Speaker 1: he is the coldest. But they didn't do it at
Speaker 1: the expense of you. They didn't name your name to
Speaker 1: try to suggest that you are not the bell, whether
Speaker 1: the benchmark or the standard by which hip hop should
Speaker 1: be judged. So I think it's a little bit more
Speaker 1: growing needs to be done by Kendrick Lamar to catch
Speaker 1: up with his rhetorical genius, his psychological disposition, because, as
Speaker 1: you said, well, when we look back, maybe four four
Speaker 1: four and mister bigness Morell big Stepper, I mean to me,
Speaker 1: Kingdom Come was a warm up for four four four
Speaker 1: that got rejected unfairly. The only beef I've ever had
Speaker 1: with jay Z is that put Kingdom Come higher on
Speaker 1: your list of your own albums because it was a
Speaker 1: mature effort. When we look at Drake's take care, when
Speaker 1: we look at Maybe Even, nothing was ever the same.
Speaker 1: I mean, j Cole, Drake and Kendrick have made ingenious
Speaker 1: music and we ain't got to choose one over the other.
Speaker 1: We can have personal preferences for sure, but I think
Speaker 1: Kendrick Lamar needs to be challenged a little.
Speaker 3: Bit to grow up. All right, Well, there you have it.
Speaker 3: Always a pleasure. I love Kendrick Lamar.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying, appreciate you for joining us, Thank you
Speaker 1: all for having me.
Speaker 3: It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning, wake that ass up
Speaker 3: in the morning. The Breakfast Club