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Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning. Breakfast Club Morning.

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Speaker 2: Everybody's DJ n V Jess hilarious, Chelamine the guy. We

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Speaker 2: are the Breakfast Club. You got a special guests in

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Speaker 2: the building. That's right, the good brother Michael Eric Dison.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back, brother, Hey, it's good to be here. The

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Speaker 3: new digs they looked great.

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Speaker 1: Wow, man, sal how come no pictures of dicing on

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Speaker 1: the walls headline the same thing you got the crispy here.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 1: I had to get it faded up before I came here, man,

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Speaker 1: you know, I had to hang with y'all. I had

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Speaker 1: to get right. Man.

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Speaker 4: Now you in town for the National Action Network Summit. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: something the good brother, Reverend Shoping had been doing for years.

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Speaker 3: But what exactly is that.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's a convention, an annual gathering for his organization,

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Speaker 1: National Action Network, and it's a remarkable gathering of all

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Speaker 1: kinds of folks.

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Speaker 3: I was at the gala last night.

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Speaker 1: He's honoring everybody from Whoopi Goldberg uh, to Caroline Wanga,

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Speaker 1: the CEO of Essence UH to to you know, the

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Speaker 1: the young lady Alexis Magil who runs the Planned Parenthood.

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Speaker 1: So it's an awards banquet, but the entire gathering, you

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Speaker 1: might see Vice President Harris, you might see President Biden,

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Speaker 1: you might see Charlamagne the God rolling through their DJ

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Speaker 1: envy And it's an incredible gathering to talk about politics, culture,

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Speaker 1: religion and what we do as a society to respond

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Speaker 1: to the need for justice. And I'm actually a keynote

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Speaker 1: for the Minister's luncheon on Friday to try to talk

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Speaker 1: about social justice and the necessity of the church connecting

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Speaker 1: to the social justice arena.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well it is a big election. Yeah, it is

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Speaker 3: a big election. Bro man. How you feel is Biden?

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Speaker 3: How you feel about Truma? The rematch? American does not

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Speaker 3: wanting It's true, but it's what we got.

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Speaker 1: You know. I want the Lakers to be every year

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Speaker 1: in the finals, because I was raised as a Lakers fan.

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Speaker 3: But that ain't who's plan.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's probably gonna be the Nuggets and maybe

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Speaker 1: the Celtics, So you gotta choose one of them. And

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Speaker 1: the thing is is that, yes, we think we want

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Speaker 1: better choices because we want better choices. We think that

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Speaker 1: better people should run because we think better people should run.

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Speaker 1: But these are the people running. I happen to believe

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Speaker 1: that there is not even a question for black people

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Speaker 1: of who to choose. I mean, Joe Biden has been

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Speaker 1: far above anything that President or ex President Trumps provided.

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Speaker 1: I saw him in the What was it talking about jobs,

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Speaker 1: bro I mean, the unemployment rate of Black America now

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Speaker 1: is about five point six.

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Speaker 3: When Biden came into office, it was nine point three.

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Speaker 1: He's talking about money and checks, and I see Sexy

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Speaker 1: Read and other rappers talking about he gave us a check.

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Speaker 1: First of all, please study your politics and ya civics.

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Speaker 1: That's the Congress that allotted that money. Plus is yodo.

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Speaker 1: And if you're going to count that way, then count

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Speaker 1: what Biden did for relieving the burden of people paying

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Speaker 1: back their student loans, and on and on and on

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Speaker 1: when we look at every metric, not only putting a

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Speaker 1: black woman in the Vice president office, not only putting

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Speaker 1: a black woman on the Supreme Court, but doing programs

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Speaker 1: that lift all boats, that address African American people specifically

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Speaker 1: in some instances, but more broadly issues that are concerning us,

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Speaker 1: whether it's about discrimination and housing, whether it's about not

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Speaker 1: only student loans, but every effort of education, kicking kids

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Speaker 1: out of school early and on and on and on.

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Speaker 1: It ain't no question for me. Donald Trump is a

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Speaker 1: vortex of bigotry. He is the leader of the big autocracy,

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Speaker 1: the rule reign and tyranny of forces that are antithetical

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Speaker 1: to our best interests, not only as black people, but

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Speaker 1: as a nation. And when we look at every indication

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Speaker 1: of where we are as a nation, this is a

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Speaker 1: guy who's still standing by people who supported January sixth,

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Speaker 1: the insurrectionist. He's trying to make them American patriots, but

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Speaker 1: demonizing Black Lives matter, demonizing.

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Speaker 3: People who protest for the right and ability to live.

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Speaker 1: In this nation without the unjust encumbrances imposed on us

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Speaker 1: by white supremacy. So I don't understand what black people

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Speaker 1: see in Donald Trump's swag. I mean, come on, this

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Speaker 1: borrowswag at best, it's referred swag at best. I mean

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Speaker 1: Barack Obama had swag coming down Air Force run. It

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Speaker 1: might as well been, you know, fifty cent planning in

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Speaker 1: the background. I don't know what you heard about me,

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Speaker 1: but the reight can't get a dollar out of me. Right,

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Speaker 1: he had swag, but he had a tan suiting people

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Speaker 1: went crazy. Now, Donald Trump the face of neo fascism,

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Speaker 1: the face of an authoritarian government that is already indicated

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Speaker 1: if he gets back in office what he's going to do.

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Speaker 1: There ain't no choice for us and black people. We

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Speaker 1: got to wake up. These are the things we have

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Speaker 1: to attend to. And look, you saw the article I

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Speaker 1: think in the New York Times yesterday that said recently

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Speaker 1: that said that Donald Trump and the Republican Party are

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Speaker 1: supporting third party interest because those detract from and take

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Speaker 1: votes away from Joe Biden.

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Speaker 3: So we know in a tight race, every vote counts.

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Speaker 1: Tell r RFK Jr.

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Speaker 3: In particular.

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Speaker 1: And I think that again, this is not time for

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Speaker 1: this extended journey of narcissism, this escapade of self deification. Bro,

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Speaker 1: these are serious issues at stake, and Black folk got

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Speaker 1: to get out there and vote.

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Speaker 4: I don't disagree with anything that you said, but I

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Speaker 4: think that we don't take the time sometimes to take

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Speaker 4: a step back and see why people do gravitate towards,

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Speaker 4: you know, somebody like Trump, Because I keep telling folks

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Speaker 4: over and over, you know, people will forget what you did,

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Speaker 4: they'll forget what you said, but they won't forget how.

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Speaker 3: You made them feel.

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Speaker 4: In twenty people felt they got the stimulus checks, they

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Speaker 4: got the PPP loans, so they felt like it was

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Speaker 4: more money in their pocket. Now, what I tell folks is,

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Speaker 4: let's think about how we got there. We got there

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Speaker 4: because of Donald Trump's mishandling of COVID. So do you

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Speaker 4: want to see millions of people die thanks in order

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Speaker 4: for you to get that check in your pocket?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 4: And I think the other problem is the Democrats just

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Speaker 4: do a terrible job messaging. And I think sometimes we

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Speaker 4: helped them with terrible messaging because we spend so much

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Speaker 4: time talking about how bad Donald Trump is, knowing you

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Speaker 4: ain't gonna change none of those people in mind who's

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Speaker 4: supporting Trump. You don't talk about the good that the

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Speaker 4: Biden Harris administration is doing enough.

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Speaker 1: I think amen, I mean absolutely right. And they could

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Speaker 1: do a better job of evangelizing their own evolution, their

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Speaker 1: own viewpoints, and what they've done for black people and others.

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Speaker 1: But you you know, you damned if you do, then

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Speaker 1: you damned if you don't. Look on your show, Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden made a joke. He was like, if you don't

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Speaker 1: vote for me, you ain't black.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, I don't know that was a joke. Well,

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Speaker 3: here's my point.

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Speaker 1: We say we want a white person who understands us

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Speaker 1: and con vibe with us, right, Bill Clinton playing the saxophone,

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Speaker 1: but more importantly understanding the limits, the interests, the ideals

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Speaker 1: of Black America. That was an inside joke, Joe Biden saying,

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Speaker 1: if you don't vote for me, that's a bit of swag,

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Speaker 1: if you will, by saying, by promoting the fact that

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Speaker 1: he understood the inside language and discourse of Black America.

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Speaker 1: That was not laying laying claims to the fact that,

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Speaker 1: of course, if you are authentically black, then I am

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Speaker 1: the only choice for you.

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Speaker 3: That was a bit of swag. And then we're tripping.

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Speaker 1: We don't want it.

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Speaker 3: Say if you go for Trump, you voting get your

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Speaker 3: own interest. I mean, he ain't lying. I don't detect

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Speaker 3: no lives. So I'm saying, if he's got that, we

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Speaker 3: don't mind it.

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Speaker 1: If you know, you know some rapper who's white doing it,

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Speaker 1: you know, if it's Eminem and you know doctor Draken

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Speaker 1: Sentim said he's the coldest brother on the microphone and

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Speaker 1: what he does and blah blah blah.

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Speaker 3: So we don't mind that kind of swag.

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Speaker 1: But if a guy who understands us who's had Look

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Speaker 1: look complicated histories.

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Speaker 3: You know, people are constantly pointing, well, look at Joe

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Speaker 3: Biden in the nineteen nineties, bro, what have you done

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Speaker 3: for me?

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Speaker 1: Lately?

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Speaker 3: People evolve and grow, they change.

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Speaker 1: Now Joe Biden is still saying the stuff he said

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Speaker 1: back then about you know, not wanting his kids to

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Speaker 1: be involved in a racial jungle or you.

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Speaker 3: Know, against busting.

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Speaker 1: Well find me a white person that really wasn't against

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Speaker 1: busting at that particular point, even in enlightened white liberals.

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Speaker 3: Now, my point is not to say that he is perfect.

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Speaker 4: He's not.

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Speaker 1: The point is, though, what has he become? What is

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Speaker 1: he evolved to rock him said, it's not where you're from,

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Speaker 1: is where you're at?

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Speaker 3: What is he doing now?

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Speaker 1: What is his interest in our progress? And what do

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Speaker 1: we get from supporting that particular figure Donald Trump? Again,

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Speaker 1: your point is right, Let's figure out why.

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Speaker 3: People are attracted him. It ain't it ain't great.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we could be attracted him because rappers who

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Speaker 1: put Donald Trump on understood that Donald Trump was like them,

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Speaker 1: swag a lot of bravado. But we see he ain't

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Speaker 1: got the He lying like most rappers, you know, about

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Speaker 1: what they got. When Jay Z said, well, hey hey, homeboy, playboy,

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Speaker 1: where's those those diamonds? That's not what you said. Where's

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Speaker 1: the hummer? That's not what you said you had. So

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Speaker 1: we know a lot of rappers lie, that's what they do.

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Speaker 1: So Donald Trump was attractive because he was a liar.

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Speaker 1: He was full of mendacity. Here's a guy we're talking about,

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden back in the day. You and your daddy

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Speaker 1: are racist in terms of the what buildings you owned

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Speaker 1: and not wanting black people to be there.

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Speaker 3: So if we gonna do it, let's go to for tap.

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Speaker 1: But my point is that, yes, at this point, don't

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Speaker 1: we we understand enough of why black people might be

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Speaker 1: attracted him some black men. Let's go there, some black

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Speaker 1: men because of the swag of patriarchy, a man in charge.

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Speaker 1: He's talking about grabbing stuff.

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Speaker 3: This is vicious.

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Speaker 1: Repudiation of an enlightened sense of masculinity. You ain't got

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Speaker 1: to do that in order to be a man. So

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Speaker 1: everything that Donald Trump represents that is attracted to us

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Speaker 1: ain't great. So let's get a do away with the

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Speaker 1: kind of patriarchy, the misogyny, the sexism that royal so

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Speaker 1: much of our community in ways that are destructive, whether

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Speaker 1: we see it in the church or the temple of

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Speaker 1: the synagogue and so on, or whether we see it

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Speaker 1: in schools. So the point is, yes, let's examine why

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Speaker 1: black people may be attracted or others. And we ain't

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Speaker 1: gonna change their minds, but we can change enough minds

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Speaker 1: within our own community to say, don't vote against your

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Speaker 1: own best interests.

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Speaker 3: And in that case, I think there's little choice about

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Speaker 3: who we should vote for on that day.

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Speaker 4: Well, you say the black conservatives who say our best

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Speaker 4: interests are conservative.

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Speaker 1: Rue, That's why so few of them, they numbers speak

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Speaker 1: for themselves, right, Black conservatives are quite interesting. You know,

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Speaker 1: you had a wonderful interview here with Canda's owns.

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Speaker 3: She ain't you know what's interesting to me.

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Speaker 1: Candi's owners ain't apologized for what she said about George Floyd.

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Speaker 1: She made an entire documentary, but you know, besmirching this

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Speaker 1: man's attitude posthumously, no apology for that.

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Speaker 3: If that's how you feel, why should she apologize.

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Speaker 1: Well, first of all, because she shouldn't have. She should

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Speaker 1: apologize because she's wrong.

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Speaker 3: Number one.

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Speaker 1: Number two, she can feel that way, and that's your

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Speaker 1: point about feeling. Let me connect these two black people

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Speaker 1: what we feel as opposed to what we do. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: you don't feel like loving your partner, you don't feel

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Speaker 1: like loving your wife or your husband or the person

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Speaker 1: you wit, but you do it out of what a

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Speaker 1: sense of duty and obligation. Those are not bad words.

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Speaker 1: So just because she felt that way, the facts show

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Speaker 1: that's not true. The stuff she tried to make up

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Speaker 1: has been empirically disproved. At the same time, here's a

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Speaker 1: man lying on the ground begging for his life that

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Speaker 1: millions of black people can identify with, and she's trying

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Speaker 1: to turn it into some conspiration see of black you know,

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Speaker 1: refusal to be responsible. You know her and Jason Whitlock.

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Speaker 1: These are people who are destructive for our community. And

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Speaker 1: Candace Owns gets a break because white folk got rid

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Speaker 1: of her, The right wing got tired of her on

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Speaker 1: the issue of Israel versus Palestine when she had a

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Speaker 1: fleeting moment of revelation. And now she's accepted and embraced.

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Speaker 1: If that's what black conservativism is her or Jason Whitlock

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Speaker 1: or Clarence Thomas, who has been a singular source of

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Speaker 1: destruction for our people. The black conservatives ain't that much

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Speaker 1: to recommend for their particular viewpoint.

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Speaker 3: This is what I think we're missing, And I'm not

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Speaker 3: defending any of these people.

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Speaker 4: What I think with somebody like a canvas owns, I

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Speaker 4: don't think black people, certain black people didn't.

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Speaker 3: Realize she already had a large audience Black.

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Speaker 4: She had a movement called Blexit, and that was six

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Speaker 4: seven years ago when she was trying to get people,

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Speaker 4: black people in particular, to get off the Democratic plantation

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Speaker 4: and seek other things, whether it was being a conservative,

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Speaker 4: being an independent, whatever it is. So I think now

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Speaker 4: when people say this thing about, oh, it's black people

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Speaker 4: embracing her, it's like, nah, she already had an audience.

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Speaker 1: When we say black people are really talking about new

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Speaker 1: black people who we wasn't embracing her before, the black

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Speaker 1: people who weren't. Look, of course they are conservative black

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Speaker 1: people in this country. The average Black person, without respect

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Speaker 1: to politics, is culturally and religiously and morally conservative. They

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Speaker 1: believe in tank commandments. Yeah, they might want to support

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Speaker 1: a woman's right to have abortion, bodily autonomy, but for real,

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Speaker 1: for real, when they go to church, they're concerned about

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Speaker 1: the fact that you might be a bored in a baby, right,

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Speaker 1: So you can have a particular religious viewpoint about an

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Speaker 1: issue and have a political and understanding the political consequence

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Speaker 1: of that viewpoint. That's why black people have been radically

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Speaker 1: dissimilar to white evangelicals and the politicization of white evangelicals

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Speaker 1: who have used their religion to try to make this

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Speaker 1: a Christian nation. Martin Luther King Junior used his Christianity

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Speaker 1: to make this as nation. And that's a big difference.

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Speaker 1: When I see people praying in certain legislatures and praising

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Speaker 1: to God, I'm an atheist to that, God said I

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Speaker 1: only I'm tired of your incense. I'm tired of the bs.

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Speaker 1: So I'm saying God, if God is an atheist to that,

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Speaker 1: I ain't gonna believe in it either. So back to

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Speaker 1: the point of Candace Owns, Yeah, there are some black

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Speaker 1: people who follow her.

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Speaker 3: This. Look the great beloved.

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Speaker 1: May Angelo, a dear friend of mine whom I loved,

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Speaker 1: who I think was right in ninety nine point nine

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Speaker 1: percent of time. I think she was wrong about supporting

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Speaker 1: Clarence Thomas. Give him a chance. Let's see what he'll

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Speaker 1: do when he gets in there. And then he got

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Speaker 1: there and he his Rex shop every since. So there

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Speaker 1: are always gonna be Black people who are gonna give

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Speaker 1: ear to certain conservative values, viewpoints and visions. The point is,

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Speaker 1: what are the political consequences of what she's arguing. And

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, at the end of the day, most the

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Speaker 1: masses of black people are not co signing the kinds

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Speaker 1: of viewpoints that black conservatives are putting forward. And Candace

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Speaker 1: Owns in particular may have Look, she's bright, she's intelligence,

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Speaker 1: she's articulate, she can be funny, she has a decided viewpoint,

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Speaker 1: and I think she should be able to say that,

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Speaker 1: and we should be able to say, what you are

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Speaker 1: doing is counterproductive to the interests of African American people.

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Speaker 1: The masses of black people can't co sign that because

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Speaker 1: of the masses of black people. Don't see reflected in

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Speaker 1: your vision of standing with Kanye West and saying white

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Speaker 1: lives matter. I'm saying, at what point.

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Speaker 3: Within those same black people stand with Kanye West still

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Speaker 3: that they do, but not a bunch of them, not

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Speaker 3: a whole bunch of them.

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Speaker 1: Not When I'm saying, the masses of black people love

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Speaker 1: Kanye for what he did, his music, what he represented,

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Speaker 1: there's no question about that. The first five six albums incredible,

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Speaker 1: and some of the music sinci It is incredible. We

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Speaker 1: also have an understanding about him because of mental illness,

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Speaker 1: and we know that mental health and mental illness are

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Speaker 1: things he struggled with in public. So yes, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: grant him some kind of recognition and we're gonna stand

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Speaker 1: up for what he did when he stood up for

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Speaker 1: us when he said George Bush doesn't care for black people.

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Speaker 1: So there were moments in Kanye's evolution where he made

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Speaker 1: significant political interventions in the name of a kind of

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Speaker 1: understanding of that blackness. Viscerally, he didn't have a sophisticated

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Speaker 1: political expression, but.

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Speaker 3: He said stuff that we could vibe with. So yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I got to help Trump in the White House. You

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Speaker 3: also hope trumping White House that you momy a superman.

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Speaker 1: I mean, come on, bro, I mean at that level,

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Speaker 1: are we going to ascribe that to an issue of

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Speaker 1: mental health or we're going to say that's your choice

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Speaker 1: and what you did. Sammy Davis Junior went to the

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Speaker 1: White House with Richard Nixon, right, but it was a

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Speaker 1: different consequence. He was raising money for black people and

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Speaker 1: standing behind us and by us. So I think that, Look,

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Speaker 1: Candace Owns and Kanye West.

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Speaker 3: Bless them.

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Speaker 1: They can do what they want, they can believe what

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Speaker 1: they want. But we have a right and an obligation

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Speaker 1: to say but that is not productive for us. And

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Speaker 1: just because you may can doe from that, or some

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Speaker 1: black people follow you, the masses of black people enough

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Speaker 1: following you, because the masses of black people don't desern

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Speaker 1: in your belief system, a structure of reliable confidence invested

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Speaker 1: in this political order. For you to represent us, you

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Speaker 1: ain't representing what we believe. When you believe in things

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Speaker 1: you don't understand, then you suffer superstition. Ain't the way

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Speaker 1: the great Stevie Wonder said. And some of that conservative

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Speaker 1: stuff is kind of political superstition premised upon empirical facts.

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Speaker 1: It's not based upon what we know to be the case.

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Speaker 1: It's an idealized expression of where we are. So when

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Speaker 1: the conservatives latch on, you shouldn't be the color of

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Speaker 1: your skin, It should be the count of your character.

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Speaker 1: That was a dream that a man articulated, that was

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Speaker 1: not a reality. So again, for Candace Owns to get

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Speaker 1: a pass, and this is what I mean by pass,

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Speaker 1: not that they weren't already black people following her, but

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Speaker 1: for our sympathies of those who didn't necessarily sign on

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Speaker 1: to what she believed to now be sympathetic to her

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Speaker 1: because she's gotten mistreated by white folks.

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Speaker 3: That's what we've been telling you. Sympathetic the hurdle. You

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Speaker 3: don't think anybody's being sympathetic to Candasons.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there are a lot of people sympathetic to

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Speaker 1: Candassones as a black woman. Stand up for her the

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Speaker 1: same way I was talking about Maya Angelo with Clarence Thomas,

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Speaker 1: and he's a black man.

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Speaker 3: Don't jump on him. Let's be concerned. Uh you know,

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Speaker 3: it could be.

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Speaker 4: It could be because they agree on the God's issue.

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Speaker 4: That's probably I can do that. Yeah, yeah, okay, okay.

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Speaker 1: So my point is, again for black concernservatives who articulate

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Speaker 1: their ideas and beliefs, that's fine, but most of them

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Speaker 1: don't have rooting, In fact, don't have rooting in a

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Speaker 1: political order that has respected the integrity of our being,

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Speaker 1: that has respected us, that has appreciated us. Some of

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Speaker 1: the same white conservatives that they joined with now celebrating

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Speaker 1: Martin L. King Junior couldn't stand him when he was alive,

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Speaker 1: called him Martin Luther. Kuhm saw him as the worst

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Speaker 1: scourge on the American democracy, a blemish to the record

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Speaker 1: of the American Constitution of Declaration of Independence. Not embrazen

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Speaker 1: then why because they think they can use them. These

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Speaker 1: are the same people who stand against the very politics

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Speaker 1: that we're invested in, and when black folk do it,

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Speaker 1: there's an especial assault and insult to us, because y'all

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Speaker 1: been there long enough. Clarience, Thomas is a dark skinned

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Speaker 1: black man. I'm sure some of his animals toward black

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Speaker 1: people has to do with being mistreated by black people

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Speaker 1: because he.

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Speaker 3: Was such a dark sand black man.

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Speaker 1: My daddy was from all Benny, Georgia, a blue black man,

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Speaker 1: So as a light skinned Negro, I saw that growing up,

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Speaker 1: and I saw how people treat him and mistreated him. Me,

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Speaker 1: being a curly haired used to wear glasses till I

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Speaker 1: got my eyes fixed the other day on the cataracts,

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Speaker 1: so I can see you now, huh yeah, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I got well, it's like LASiS, but I had cataracts,

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Speaker 1: so they removed the cataracts. It was lasers and surgery, man,

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Speaker 1: So now I can see I ain't got no glass

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Speaker 1: and I can see a handsome all I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: the two are not contradicted. I happened to be allergic. However,

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Speaker 1: let me be honest that I can't smoke weed, and

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Speaker 1: I found out by well anyway. So the point is,

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Speaker 1: the point is ultimately at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: then when we think about who we are as a

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Speaker 1: people and what kind of ideas we put forth and

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Speaker 1: who we are, I'm just saying, the black conservatives have

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Speaker 1: not stood up for it. So Clarence Thomas probably has

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Speaker 1: animus toward people because they mistreated him as a dark

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Speaker 1: sanded black man. But what he's done since has more

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Speaker 1: than paid us back, the furious indifference to the being

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Speaker 1: of black people deciding what folks even when conservative white

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Speaker 1: folks are how you going too far, Clarence Thomas said,

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Speaker 1: you ain't gone far enough. We have authenticated these people

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Speaker 1: to a certain degree by not speaking out vociferously against them.

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Speaker 1: And I'm saying again with Candice Owns, she might feel

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Speaker 1: that George Floyd represented a certain threat, but when it

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Speaker 1: comes down to facts versus fiction, it ain't even true.

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Speaker 3: And we got to hold people accountable for that.

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Speaker 4: I guess for me, I feel like somebody like Clarence Thomas, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I can understand holding him accountable, somebody like Candace Ows

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Speaker 4: and it could just be me. It's just like she's

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Speaker 4: not an elected official. She's the person with a platform

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Speaker 4: on YouTube the podcast. Sure, like, how much are we

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Speaker 4: supposed to argue about something like that, especially when we

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Speaker 4: already know the truth. The troop is right there in

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Speaker 4: your face, the cops who killed George Floyd dre in prison.

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Speaker 4: You know, we saw George Floyd get killed, the coroners

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Speaker 4: that he got choked out, and that's what this cause

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Speaker 4: of death.

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Speaker 3: Watching it run and argue with somebody.

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Speaker 1: Well, because the thing is is that her viewpoints until

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Speaker 1: her I guess she had a blexit from Ben Shapiro,

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Speaker 1: so maybe she had a bensis. The point is that

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Speaker 1: that influences white other white people, other white conservatives. You

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Speaker 1: ideas that filter into legislatures where in Tennessee where I live,

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Speaker 1: they kick out to the two young justins and a

434
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,960
Speaker 1: white woman, where it makes a difference in terms of

435
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,680
Speaker 1: shutting up discourse and dialogue about beliefs that they don't

436
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 1: cherish about closing down conversations about who owns, guns and

437
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:22,600
Speaker 1: the nut. So the influence of that platform has far

438
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,920
Speaker 1: reaching consequence in ways that we can determine. In some

439
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,280
Speaker 1: ways we may not be immediately able to determine, but

440
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,320
Speaker 1: that have an effect on white folk who think about

441
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,480
Speaker 1: these issues of race and who feel justified because they

442
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:38,800
Speaker 1: can point to a black face to say, Oh, my god,

443
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,919
Speaker 1: this is what Jason Whitlock believes. This is what Candice

444
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,320
Speaker 1: Owns believes, this is what Glenn Lowry believes. So the

445
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:51,320
Speaker 1: justification for certain self hating moments of African American politics, ideology,

446
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,960
Speaker 1: and interests is enough to say to us, we got

447
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,760
Speaker 1: to speak up and out against this, because there's a

448
00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,879
Speaker 1: relationship between that kind of stuff and the belief that

449
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 1: Trump represents a certain kind of virtue and value. If

450
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,480
Speaker 1: you hear enough black people or enough times of a

451
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 1: conservative articulate black person suggesting that this is not a problem,

452
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 1: it does have consequence, and those little inter you know,

453
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 1: those are where the little space.

454
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,520
Speaker 3: It's not the most black people who think, oh, that's bullshit.

455
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,080
Speaker 1: We know that, it's enough black people who may not

456
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 1: understand what the differences are ideologically and politically between what

457
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,680
Speaker 1: they articulate and what the interests of African American people

458
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 1: are to make a difference.

459
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people are.

460
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:31,680
Speaker 2: I agree with with a lot of what you said,

461
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 2: but I think a lot of people are tied of

462
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:34,640
Speaker 2: I call it the daddy's law in my house.

463
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 3: Right.

464
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 2: The daddy's law in my house is I said it,

465
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:38,879
Speaker 2: and you do what I say, don't ask me no questions.

466
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 2: I feel like that's a lot with Democrats.

467
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:41,439
Speaker 3: Right.

468
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 2: We see things sometimes when we ask a question and

469
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 2: be like, oh, you're going against us.

470
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 3: I'm not going against you. I'm asking a question. Right.

471
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:49,800
Speaker 2: We talked about Body, Right, when you talk about body

472
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 2: and people thought he had amnesia just watching the things

473
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:53,639
Speaker 2: that he do. And then when you ask about it,

474
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,000
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, you're going against him, You're given you,

475
00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 2: given you given the Republicans. No, I'm just asking because

476
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:02,680
Speaker 2: I might not want that.

477
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 4: Democrats any critique, any critique, critique, automatically making where the

478
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:09,359
Speaker 4: money goes with this, that.

479
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 3: And the other.

480
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,359
Speaker 2: If I ask a question or question anybody like anybody like,

481
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,120
Speaker 2: I can question you, you can question me. Doesn't necessarily

482
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:16,640
Speaker 2: mean we enemies, doesn't mean.

483
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,880
Speaker 3: I'm going against you, but were just having a real conversation.

484
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 2: And I think that's what bothers a lot of black

485
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:22,400
Speaker 2: Americans when it comes to Democrats.

486
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,360
Speaker 1: I get that, I mean, but if you think that's

487
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 1: the problem with Democrats, what in the hell do you

488
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:30,440
Speaker 1: think that's in regard to Republicans who at least with Democrats,

489
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:30,679
Speaker 1: you have.

490
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 3: An argument to be made.

491
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 1: And by the way, I agree with all that in

492
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 1: the sense that we should be able to criticize. I

493
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 1: wrote an entire book as this Generation, as a whole

494
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 1: book on Barack Obama. And even though I distinguished myself

495
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 1: from them in terms of how far at least Wes

496
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,679
Speaker 1: was able to go, I think Tavis had a bit

497
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 1: more decor.

498
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 3: But but the decorum, I'm sorry, But the point.

499
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: Is this is that, yes, you know, I was out

500
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,679
Speaker 1: there taking strays, uh, because I believe a certain thing

501
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 1: and I wanted to hold people accountable. Still love them. See,

502
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 1: I believe in the six inning theory of baseball. As

503
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,640
Speaker 1: you know, this is baseball season, and the sixth inning,

504
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 1: if it stars raining, whoever is the head is gonna win. Right.

505
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 1: If you go six innings, whoever's the head gonna win.

506
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 1: So I think we got to go six innings. That

507
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 1: means we got to stay on the same team, have

508
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 1: the message of productive engagement politically for our people, what

509
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:28,160
Speaker 1: helps us, what hurts us, unidentifying enemies, friends and opponents,

510
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,200
Speaker 1: and then after six innings you got some stuff to

511
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 1: spread around. So when you make a critical comment like that,

512
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: don't be naive. I'm just being objective and neutral. I'm

513
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 1: answered raising a question. You ain't just being objective and neutral,

514
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 1: even if you intend to be the consequence of your

515
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 1: talk is not your intent may be to be neutral,

516
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 1: the consequence is it reinforces a certain narrative or belief.

517
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean you can't be critical because I was critical,

518
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: but I put it in context. I specified how much

519
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 1: love I had for Obama. I specified what I thought

520
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 1: he was doing right, talked about the interests he held.

521
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: I talked about how white supremacy ganged up on him.

522
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: But I also said he had three bites at the apple.

523
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 1: He ain't chose no black woman to be on the

524
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 1: Supreme Court. He had many opportunities where he spoke up

525
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: and out against black people. I think that his comments

526
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 1: about and especially his spouse in regard to Jeremia Wright,

527
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 1: were wholly gratuitous and destructive. After the fact. So I

528
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 1: got criticisms, but I got to understand the degree to

529
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: which they play into a narrative that either supports my

530
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,439
Speaker 1: beliefs or undercuts them. So there's no kind of objective.

531
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 1: This our comedian point of objectivity. I stand outside the

532
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 1: flow of human history. No, bro, you down here with

533
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 1: West Montgomery on the ground, as y'all probably too young,

534
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: remember West Montgomery, the great jazz guitarist, down here on

535
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: the ground. We're down here on the ground. So it's

536
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 1: not that we can't be critical, But I'm saying, what's

537
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 1: your critique of a political order where Republicans don't even

538
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 1: give a damn about who you are? At least what

539
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: Democrats you can push them? At least with democrats. Minute

540
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: you said you claimed you were part of, and then you.

541
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 3: Fill into blanks. So what are you doing? You're failing us.

542
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 1: That kind of critique is is quite necessary and powerful,

543
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 1: and when we do it, however, is extremely powerful as well,

544
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 1: and we have to be strategic about.

545
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 3: It to do it. It's all right.

546
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 1: Time in the election is a damn good time.

547
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 3: Here's my point.

548
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,120
Speaker 1: It's four years in between. Where is the critique It's

549
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: been happening I mean, look, look, there's no question Biden

550
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: can say, hey, calm down with some of that, because

551
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: you've been consistent in the critique. But I'm saying we

552
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: got to be strategic about what we're saying, and when

553
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 1: we're saying that, I'm not saying, surrender your capacity as

554
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 1: a free thinking person. But what kills me, what cracks

555
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: me up? When I hear canvas ons and and Kanye,

556
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 1: I'm talking about getting off the Democratic plantation?

557
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 3: What damn plantation do you.

558
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: Think you're on?

559
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 3: When you are with Ben Shapiro.

560
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: When you were with Donald Trump, you owned the biggest

561
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 1: plantation at all, the mental one, the one that is

562
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: exercising your mind, and the ventriloquism of white supremacy, black

563
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 1: mouth moving, white ideas flowing out of you. So please

564
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: tell me when you disparage and legitimately criticize so called

565
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: plantations politics of the Democrats, What damn plantation are.

566
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 3: You speaking for? What master's voice are you amplifying when

567
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 3: you say that?

568
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 4: I agree with you wholeheartedly, And I also say I

569
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 4: feel like black people in particular, we shouldn't be beholden

570
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 4: to any party. I don't think these fanatics over Democrats

571
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,919
Speaker 4: are insane to me. These fanatics over conservatives are insane

572
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 4: to me. We should always be looking at who and

573
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 4: what serves our best interests. I don't even think we

574
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 4: should be talking about voting for individuals.

575
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 3: Let's talk about the.

576
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 4: Ideas and the ideas that that individual is putting on

577
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 4: the table. But I think that'll get you, father, But

578
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 4: let me in a conversation with you.

579
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 3: Let me ask you this. Here's the point. Why are

580
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 3: black people stupid? I don't think so. No, not are

581
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 3: they dumb?

582
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 1: I don't think so. So why is it that black

583
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: people are voting for the Democrats. It's not because they're

584
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 1: on a damn plantation. Because at least the Democrats they

585
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: serve limitis, They serve our best interests.

586
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 3: So you know the old saying, no permanent party, just

587
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 3: permanent interests.

588
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 1: I get that. But our interests have been tied up

589
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: with people who at least are willing to listen to us.

590
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: Tell me what interests of African American people accept a

591
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: few black rappers that Donald Trump got out of jail.

592
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: What black person can point to him and say these

593
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: This man articulates the interests of my community, embraces us

594
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 1: as a people understands our plight. In predicament, he's talking

595
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 1: about shitthold countries, many of whom, many of which are

596
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: countries of color black people in them. This is a

597
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 1: dude consistently talking about hurting and harming Black people, using

598
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: the police power of the state to circumscribe.

599
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:39,239
Speaker 3: Us and to undermine us.

600
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 1: So I'm saying, even by your litmus tests, the Republicans

601
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 1: ain't gotten nothing for us. This ain't old school Republicans.

602
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,640
Speaker 1: Back in when Nelson Rockefeller was a Republican, my god,

603
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 1: or William Cohen was a Republican, a liberal Republican. That's

604
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: unheard of at this point. So there are some people

605
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: who are certainly in the history in the history books,

606
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: who are Republicans, who are down with us. That's that's

607
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: why black people were a Republican. When I hear Republicans,

608
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: we are the Party of Lincoln, Brodad was a long

609
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 1: time ago. That was a long long time ago when

610
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: the Republican Party was concerned about our interests and the

611
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: Democratic Party represented as part of the Dixiecrats and others

612
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: who were a Southern base against the best interests of

613
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 1: black people.

614
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 3: I'm saying, even by your litmus tests.

615
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 1: Why are we wen talking about what Republicans done because

616
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 1: they don't give a damn And let me just say this,

617
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: when you look at the fact that in these state legislatures,

618
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 1: thirty eight out of fifty of them are run by

619
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: Republicans and they don't give a good gosh darn.

620
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 3: About black people.

621
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: They're voting against us, They're creating rules and restrictions against us.

622
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: The voting has been made far more difficult. Even conservative

623
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: courts say you are going too far. You've redrawn the maps.

624
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: They don't respect the integrity of black voting. The Voting

625
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: Rights Act, which has been gutted but still powerful enough

626
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: to provide an umbrella for us, is being assaulted and

627
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: attacked every day. Why would we even vote for anybody

628
00:28:58,920 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: who's part of that party?

629
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 3: And everything you're saying is absolutely correct.

630
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 4: But what I want us to start doing is just

631
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 4: look at the things that these people are doing that

632
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 4: is getting people's attention. You dismissed something, right, you said that,

633
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 4: you said that he let out three black rappers. It's

634
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 4: not even about the black rappers. It's about the first

635
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 4: step back. Whenever somebody can just point to something and

636
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 4: say that is a tangible thing that person did that

637
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 4: I actually saw for myself, right, that helped somebody in

638
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 4: my community. They'll gravitate towards that.

639
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: OK. I get that, But but Eric Holder really reduced

640
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: the disparity between powder cocaine and crack cocaine, which you

641
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: know disproportionately assaulted us when you.

642
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 3: See it and market it well though, Okay.

643
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: What do you want the commercial? The product?

644
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 3: The commercial? Okay, it's a campaign, I understand, Look.

645
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: But I'm saying the product is more precious than the commercial,

646
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: although we do need the commercial the campaign to articulate

647
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 1: what it's done.

648
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 4: If I'm on further the body right now, everybody that

649
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 4: I gave student loans, that really to right.

650
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 3: And commercials running over little bit within It's a bunk

651
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 3: with these people.

652
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 4: Brother saying, hey, I got three hundred thousand dollars taking

653
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 4: off my student loan deb now I'm able to open

654
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 4: a business.

655
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 3: I would just have them constantly.

656
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: Against none of that, as they say, I'm not against

657
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: any of that. But at the same time, we are

658
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: sophisticated enough as the people to understand who in our

659
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: corner who ain't and who can talk about it and

660
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: who can't some things Joe Biden like say, for instance,

661
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: I heard some critiques in the State of the Union.

662
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: He didn't mention about DEI. That's because he understands that

663
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: is such a flashpoint right now on the political trajectory

664
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: that for him to endorse that only creates opportunities for

665
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: people to assault it. Not that we don't want it,

666
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: not that we don't need it, not that we're not

667
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: practicing it. We just look. I just saw recently where

668
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: it was finally put into order that the Small Business

669
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: Administration can't even have loans for African American people, got

670
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: to open it up for white folks and others. I'm saying,

671
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: this is the terrain on which we exist. Let's not

672
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: pretend we don't know. We got to wink, yeah, yeah,

673
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: I got you. You ain't got to say everything you know,

674
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: and you ain't got to say everything you doing.

675
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 3: You got to do it.

676
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: That's what I meant by the commercial versus the product.

677
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: Let's get the praxis, the practice, the political order together,

678
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: and then we can talk about what we say and

679
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: what we're not saying. And look, I am for critique,

680
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: I'm for pushing them. I'm for demanding that we do

681
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: the right thing. But I'm also for understanding we in

682
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: what April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November. That

683
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: ain't a whole bunch of time. So I'm saying there

684
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: some times when we come together to forge a kind

685
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: of unity, or at least provisional solidarity, where we operate

686
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: in our best interest, knowing that we got to do

687
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: the right thing. If Angela Davis, one of the most

688
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: radical and progressive voices in the history of America, especially

689
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: Black America, and Noam Chomsky, one of the most progressive

690
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: voices on the left ever, can both argue about supporting

691
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: Joe Biden, it that at least should give us pause

692
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: to all of the please mercenary interventions by narcissistic political

693
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: figures who want to have their day in the sunlight

694
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: as opposed to the best interest of black people in

695
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: this country.

696
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 4: I think Donald Trump is a fascist. I think he's

697
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 4: a threat to democracy. I don't think that, you know,

698
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 4: anybody who calls himself a patriots should want somebody in

699
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 4: the White House who wanted to suspend the Constitution to

700
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 4: overthrow the results of Absolutely yes, But with all of

701
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 4: that on the table, what do you say to people

702
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 4: who say, so what, Well.

703
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 3: I mean, like, I'm just saying I'm just as Like,

704
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 3: what do you say.

705
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: I hate to sound like the patriots on the right wing,

706
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: but going somewhere where you think that's the case, bro,

707
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: where you think it doesn't make a difference, where you

708
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: can experience fascism up close, where the rule of law

709
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: operates against you.

710
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 3: Oh, this country has no crime there.

711
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: That's because they gonna cut your arm off, bro, if

712
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: they catch you in the wrong place, and given not

713
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: breaking and entering inclinations, that would be very hard.

714
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 4: Now that's how you talk to people who are already

715
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 4: in hell, because that's when I say, so what I mean, Like,

716
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 4: there's people already living in hell in this country. So

717
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 4: when you tell them that, yo, he's the threat of democracy,

718
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 4: they were like, democracy ain't never worked for us, no.

719
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 3: Way, Yeah, but that's democracy ain't gonna get worse.

720
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, if they in hell, you got

721
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: to look at the conversation between Divies and Lazarus. Divies

722
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: was a rich man in hell and Lazarus ends up

723
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: going to heaven.

724
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 3: So I'm not saying there's a great reversal. But you

725
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 3: tell people who.

726
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: Are in hell?

727
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 3: Do you want to get it hotter?

728
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: I mean there are degrees right, the sixth circle of

729
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: hell if you read Dante. So the point is that

730
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: you tell people, yeah, you in hell. But if you

731
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: think you lonely, now wait.

732
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:34,959
Speaker 3: Until the night.

733
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: You have a Bobby Womack theology. You've got to have

734
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: a Bobby Womack theology. If you think it's bad, now

735
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: wait until the night.

736
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 3: Girl.

737
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: So black people got to understand that there are degrees

738
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: to this, right, and when we look at the degrees

739
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: to this, yes, it is tough.

740
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 3: Child poverty is still real.

741
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: The attack on black women's bodies is still real, the

742
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: dismissal of African American is still real. But it is.

743
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: If it's bad, Now, what in the hell do you

744
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: think is going to be when a fascist takes over,

745
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: When a guy who doesn't even who's not even interested

746
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: in your particular viewpoint or your suffering takes over. Yes,

747
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: he can go to a darn Chick fil a right

748
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: now and tell you that Joe Biden is the worst

749
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: president in the history. That's another lie he's telling. So

750
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: if we don't think that it makes a difference. And look,

751
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: it's hard for people who are suffering to hear that.

752
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: But our people have always suffered, They've always been in hell.

753
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: But they've always understood that if we use a certain

754
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 1: kind of particular perspective to get a certain way, if

755
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: we use a certain instrument to realize our ultimate ambitions.

756
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 1: As Howard Thurman, the Great Mystic said, refuse the temptation

757
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: to scale down your dreams to what you're experiencing right

758
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: now now. And enough Black people, And it wasn't rich

759
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 1: black people who believe that. It wasn't it wasn't people

760
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 1: who are wealthy who believe that. These are everyday people

761
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: on the plantation, These are everyday folk in the hood.

762
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 1: These are everyday people who are shared. They understood that

763
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: Hope had a message, and the message was beyond what

764
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: we can see and hear right now. There is something real.

765
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 1: That's why all these preachers spend Sunday mornings talking about God.

766
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: You step out on nothing and something is there. It's

767
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 1: not just magical kumbai ya, It's not abra kadabra. This

768
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 1: is about the heart of hope that animates most Black

769
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: activity in this country.

770
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 3: Afro pessimism is real.

771
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: I respect of Frank Wilderson, I respect the theorists of

772
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 1: Afro pessimism because they tell us the stark truth that

773
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: we need to grapple with. But there's been a tradition

774
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: of hope within black people that makes no sense, that

775
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 1: is not even justified. That is absurd, and Afro absurdism

776
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: is a key to our survival. So Howard Thurman said,

777
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: the wrong rows of cotton, the raw hide, e whip

778
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: of the overseer. But our slave fore parents imagine a

779
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: different future. And this is what I want to say

780
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 1: when black people, this is the words, Oh my God,

781
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: is her Your mama's and daddy's, your great gad great

782
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: grandmamas and great granddaddy's suffered far more than what we're

783
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: suffering now. And if they had the possibility of nurturing

784
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: hope in their breasts, we have the obligation to do

785
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:10,879
Speaker 1: the same.

786
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 3: If you can't do it for yourself, do it for

787
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 3: your kids.

788
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,760
Speaker 1: If you can't do it for your kids, remember Grandma

789
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: in them and how you are the manifestation of their

790
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: very hope. And to get caught in that Heller situation,

791
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 1: you think you in hell? Imagine going out and working

792
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: for seventeen hours a day. You think you in hell.

793
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 1: Imagine having no rights and her ability to assert what

794
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 1: your beliefs are. You think you in hell? What about

795
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: when you had no choice but to do what a

796
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 1: slave master told you when you were raped, that will,

797
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: without moral compunction or legal redress. That was hell. And

798
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: in the midst of that hell, those black people held

799
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: up and held out hope as our condition if they

800
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: could do it. I ain't trying to hear nothing from

801
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: people right now.

802
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 4: What do you think is fair or unfair in regards

803
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 4: to critique of personality? Like what is considered fair unfairl

804
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 4: Because I'm a person that believes you just can't say

805
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 4: what you want to say and expect everybody to agree.

806
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 4: Some people are going to like it, some people are

807
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:06,879
Speaker 4: not going to like it. And with social media math,

808
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:08,240
Speaker 4: people don't have an opinion about.

809
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 1: I mean, and look, critique is one thing that that

810
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: means I'm engaging you. I'm talking to you, but you

811
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: and I'm looking at what you said. I read what

812
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: you said, I put it in context, and then I

813
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: have a response. But that's different than you just assaulting me.

814
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: That's just different than you saying stuff that ain't even true,

815
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: making it up and here now we got deep fakes.

816
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 1: We're worried about AI. The only AI I did is

817
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: Alan Iverson. Other than that, bro, it's rough. So the

818
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,720
Speaker 1: thing is this, we got deep fakes, we got lies,

819
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,800
Speaker 1: we got mendacities. Look at the convergence of the technology

820
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:44,359
Speaker 1: and the techniques of fascism. The technology facilitates and it's

821
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 1: complicit with the spread of a certain kind of fascist

822
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,399
Speaker 1: reality because now we don't we're not sure it was real,

823
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: was not? And Black people should be the last people

824
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: taking allegations as convictions.

825
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 3: Lord, have mercy.

826
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: I mean, how can you just say something and then

827
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: convict somebody black people, of all people. I heard Dominique Martissau,

828
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: the great playwright say as bad and as jacked up

829
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,399
Speaker 1: as the criminal justice system is. I'll take that any

830
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: day over somebody just saying something about you, and then

831
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: that's taking his law. And that's across the board. That's

832
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 1: whether it blm me to whatever.

833
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 3: The point is.

834
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: An allegation alone cannot substantiate or produce evidence to make

835
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,879
Speaker 1: a claim worthwhile. But we see this on social media,

836
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 1: and let me tell you what I get. Look, people

837
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: jump on me sometimes. Look I try to be nice

838
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: to them. They say nasty stuff and I'm nice and

839
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: they're embarrassed.

840
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,439
Speaker 3: Some of them have no shame. I done wrote twenty

841
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 3: five books. You wrote twenty five words. Dog, it ain't e.

842
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 3: We're not the same, right, And.

843
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: That's not arrogant. That's I did the work. I actually studied,

844
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:51,399
Speaker 1: I thought about it, I reflect on it. That don't

845
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 1: mean I'm right because people who have thought about it

846
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,879
Speaker 1: and studied on it are disagreeing with me. So disagreement

847
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 1: is not the index of one lacking intelligence and one

848
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 1: possessing it. It means that we have the considered reflection

849
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: on a particular issue. And the Internet don't even create

850
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: the need for that, the desire for that. We think

851
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 1: we can go on and read something. That's the beauty.

852
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: The beauty of digital media is that you can have

853
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 1: books or library books in your phone and you can

854
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: read twenty five books. I used to have to carry

855
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: them on the plane. Now you can put them in

856
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: your kindle and read them. That's beautiful. The problem is

857
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: when we when we had kind of the visceral interaction

858
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 1: with the paparide the text, we had to read it.

859
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: We went to the library because that's where the lies

860
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 1: are buried. We went there to dig them up, and

861
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 1: we look at the card catalog. That ain't the kind

862
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: of catalog you got when you got five hundred's numbers

863
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,399
Speaker 1: that night, and them cars were talking about we talking

864
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: about one't eighty seven point nine.

865
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 3: That wasn't a local radio station. That was where social

866
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 3: science was.

867
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 1: My point is there was something about earning that knowledge

868
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: and digging for that knowledge and feeling that you couldn't

869
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: just take it for granted.

870
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 3: And we have tremendous access now we know, we.

871
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 1: Have the possibility to know more than we've ever known before,

872
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 1: and we know less than we've ever known because we

873
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: don't have the same kind of curiosity because we think

874
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: now because we can and say something to somebody, I

875
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 1: like Charlemagne, the God, I can jack him up because

876
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: I have access to him now. Before you had to

877
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 1: go to this office write him a letter. He might

878
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: not He might not have written you back, Doc, Dear

879
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,800
Speaker 1: Doctor King, I disagree with the integration.

880
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah.

881
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: You don't have that kind of access. You didn't have

882
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 1: that kind of access then that you have now. So

883
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 1: it's as a marvel. But the problem is everybody got

884
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: an opinion. Everybody thinks it's equally valuable. And because you

885
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 1: can insult somebody. Do you think with the rhetorical capacity

886
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: I possess, I couldn't evisterate you. You don't think I

887
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: could do that too. You think that you're the only

888
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: one who possesses the ability to call a MF and

889
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: MF mother fo.

890
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 3: I grew up into hisze Rizi nizza briso.

891
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 1: I could get at you. I can cuss you out

892
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: more than you think I can. But the point is

893
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: I have restraints because I understand my power like a

894
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: like a like an old gun slinger. When you come

895
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,240
Speaker 1: to town, put your registerial guns. I got a bazooka

896
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 1: on my hip. I could eviscerate you. The point is,

897
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: can we have common sense and civility? I know a

898
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: lot people have said civility is a problematic because sometimes

899
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 1: you got to be disruptive. I get that, but I'm saying,

900
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: for the most part, when you shutting people down and

901
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: you don't want them to that's your yes, your go

902
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 1: shut up? You know, and you're talking, shut up? What

903
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: about when they shut you up? What about when you

904
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 1: can't talk?

905
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 3: That can't help us.

906
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: It's like an eye for an eye as doctor King said,

907
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: everybody be blind. So the point is, if we all

908
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: shutting each other out, we all hollering each other, we're

909
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: all protesting each other, can we ever speak? So I'm

910
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 1: for speaking and listening. I'm not for cancel culture. I'm

911
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: for engaging people. I'm for talking to other people, and

912
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 1: I'm for saying, yes, let's talk and.

913
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 4: We can be critical confrontational conversation, I mean conversation, obal conferenceation.

914
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: How about that? Criticism is not jumping on you, being

915
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,760
Speaker 1: nasty about you saying you know what, Dyson, I noticed

916
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:44,399
Speaker 1: you said X, Y, and Z, but you didn't say

917
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: this holding holding.

918
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 3: Me to account.

919
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 1: We should be able to do that. And I think

920
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 1: that's why I mentioned about a Manda sales or I

921
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: know you and I had a conversation about about the

922
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,320
Speaker 1: young Jonathan Owens and I posted yesterday and you know

923
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: or right right Simon Bio's husband, and people kept saying,

924
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 1: you ain't the whole conversation.

925
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 3: I listened to the whole conversation.

926
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,359
Speaker 1: In fact, there's worse than that, because at one point

927
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: he goes, look, she's the one who kind of you know,

928
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: match with me, and something he says, she keeps saying

929
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 1: she matched, but it was really her. I'm saying, bro,

930
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to dog Jonathan on us because that's look.

931
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 1: I've been mad three times, clearly to black women. So

932
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,359
Speaker 1: clearly I see on the end of people be saying

933
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: he got a white wife. I ain't mad if I

934
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 1: had a white wife. I walk in the room with

935
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: a white wife. I ain't had no white wife. I

936
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: wrote a book called Why I Love Black Women, so

937
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: I done married three of them. My point is, so

938
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,400
Speaker 1: I got look the vast reservoir of failure I can

939
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 1: share with you. I can talk to you about it.

940
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 1: I'm saying, let's just put the young man on game.

941
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 1: When you got a woman like that, This is the

942
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 1: point you made again about intent versus consequence. You intent

943
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 1: could have been funny, You inten could have been yeah, girl,

944
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 1: you were chasing me. Look at the consequence in the

945
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: world where black women are bitches and holes and skeezers

946
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: and slupts and dismissed and not recognized.

947
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 3: And not valued.

948
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,720
Speaker 1: So when you say that, the reason I juxtaposed Trevor Kelsey,

949
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,879
Speaker 1: who's far more famous than you, young man, who says

950
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,360
Speaker 1: I'm just lucky that I even got a chance to

951
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,320
Speaker 1: holler her because you know about sports and everything like that,

952
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: talking about Taylor Swift. I'm saying, the contradistinction is not

953
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: to demoralize this young man, is to put you on

954
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 1: game game, grown ass man energy in light, grown ass

955
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 1: man enlightenment. I'm sixty five years old, I'm officially grown,

956
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: and I'm saying to you, bro, lift your woman up strategically,

957
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: if not even substantively, understand that she is valuable to you.

958
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 1: If this woman is one of the most famous gymnasts

959
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: and arguably the greatest gymnasts in the history of gymnastic

960
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 1: exploitation and performance, ain't nobody doubting that, then at least

961
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 1: at this point, don't look like you're trying to to

962
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: besmirch her. And again, it was a joke. I get

963
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: people who defend it. I understand that. At the end

964
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,720
Speaker 1: of the day, though, uplift that woman, elevate that woman,

965
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 1: happy wife, happy life. And I'm sure he's having a

966
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: beautiful time, he's doing beautiful things.

967
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 3: I wasn't trying to jam him up. I'm trying to

968
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:56,839
Speaker 3: say to young people.

969
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: However, in a culture where women have been demonized, stigmatized,

970
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 1: and continue to be We got rappers talking about I

971
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 1: only want to deal with a light skinned woman. I

972
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 1: only you know, Kodak black er. You know, I don't

973
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: want to deal with this woman and so on and

974
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: so for and hurting her and looking at making the

975
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: stallion and siding with a guy who shot her in

976
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 1: the foot. I'm just saying, this is the world in

977
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 1: which black women live, and if we can't acknowledge that,

978
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: and put on top of that the ability to get

979
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 1: an abortion, you know who, that affects more than anybody us.

980
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: So I'm just asking for a little consideration and a

981
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 1: little knowledge dropping from an older man, That's all I'm.

982
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 4: Gonna I sent you another article with He is always

983
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 4: gushing over her, and he is always pointing to her,

984
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 4: but also to what if he was just telling.

985
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 3: This story she did? What if she did try to

986
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 3: holler him that's why they got together.

987
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: But she she argued with him on She argued with

988
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: him on say, she said, d ain't what happened. She said,

989
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 1: you had already liked me, and because you liked me,

990
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 1: then I therefore reached out.

991
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 3: I'm saying, and that, look, that's their business. I don't

992
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,879
Speaker 3: want to get into it. I thought the would joking,

993
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 3: but I just wondered why he wasn't.

994
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 1: Joking at that point when he said, nah, you keep

995
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: saying that I and even if he was. Look, my

996
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,320
Speaker 1: point is this, I'm not even trying to get in

997
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:02,800
Speaker 1: today thing. I'm trying to talk about the consequence of

998
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 1: what might mean that brought an issue in terms of

999
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 1: elevating black women. Black women get enough of? You ain't

1000
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: enough Black women get enough of. I don't care how

1001
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: much you got, you ain't whatever. And when he says I.

1002
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 3: Always think the man is the catch, bro. Now that's

1003
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 3: classic definition of patriarchy. Bro.

1004
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 1: I don't know what world you don't think when I

1005
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 1: always say the man is the catch, deconstruct that for me.

1006
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 3: What does that mean?

1007
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: Oh so you're dealing with Simon Bios, the most noteworthy

1008
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: gymnast in the history of America, but you still to catch.

1009
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,720
Speaker 1: Now people say, well, he should have that kind of confidence.

1010
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: I ain't mad at your confidence. I'm saying, what is

1011
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: it about us as men that we can't acknowledge our women.

1012
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:45,879
Speaker 1: We go to church, they already defering to us, ain't

1013
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: but five men in church, but they the deacon and

1014
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,240
Speaker 1: the pastor and the cleaner and everything and the trustee.

1015
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: Because women understand the fragile psychology of black men who

1016
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: have been emasculated in a white supremacist culture where another

1017
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,720
Speaker 1: patriarch is a threat to another patriarch, they then already

1018
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:00,320
Speaker 1: done that work. When I go out out here, and

1019
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: I'm sure you two, both of y'all, when you go

1020
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 1: out here and see black men's concerns being talked about,

1021
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 1: Susan Taylor is at the front of the line, right. Uh,

1022
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 1: black women are always speaking up for black men. I'm saying,

1023
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 1: can we return the favor and what I mean by

1024
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,320
Speaker 1: the broader society in a world where black women have

1025
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: been demonized, even the greatest of them have to be

1026
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,439
Speaker 1: told that no, the man you got is the catch

1027
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: because you're living in a world where black women may

1028
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: not have access to the greatest amount of black men

1029
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 1: because of prison and choices and so on and so forth.

1030
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, bro, at the end of the day,

1031
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 1: a little love, try a little tenderness.

1032
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's All's.

1033
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:41,399
Speaker 4: Another example to me is like the relationship thing. Keep

1034
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 4: that away from the strangers on social media. Let that

1035
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 4: be an inside conversation y'all laugh and joke about amongst

1036
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:47,839
Speaker 4: each other's at dinner.

1037
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 3: As soon as you bring it to social media, stuff

1038
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 3: like this happened.

1039
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 1: But but I think it's helpful. They might not care.

1040
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 2: It might be their relationship, they had jokes, their problem

1041
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 2: with their situation had.

1042
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:58,439
Speaker 3: I think it's hard not to kill when everybody jokes.

1043
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 1: Jokes grow out of social situations, grow out of social value.

1044
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:05,760
Speaker 3: That's what they are, right, of course, because they reflect.

1045
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:07,879
Speaker 2: If I start a light on my relationship with my wife,

1046
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 2: people might think it's disrespectful, but it's me and my wife.

1047
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 3: We joke all the time. You know, you're a great example.

1048
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 4: And they put their book out and he said in

1049
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 4: his book that he had made his wife orgasm in

1050
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 4: a decade.

1051
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,720
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, but that's on him. He should have kept himselves.

1052
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: But that's on him. Women saying I didn't is a

1053
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: hero because most big I hear you. Because I couldn't

1054
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 1: do it for three years, I can do it for

1055
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: seven years. He's saying, I'm the one that's But he's.

1056
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 4: Still made something public that he didn't have to make public.

1057
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 2: But the reason I made it public is because of

1058
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 2: stories and conversations that I have with people when I

1059
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 2: do my podcast, and just see if you don't read it.

1060
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 4: Wasn't the fact that I didn't make a come is

1061
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 4: the fact that I couldn't.

1062
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 3: Make it come sexually orally. I was good money.

1063
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:52,240
Speaker 1: The problem was, and what I was trying to explain,

1064
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: he can run his mouth. He can run his mouth.

1065
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 1: Me and my wife and together since she was sixteen.

1066
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 2: And what I was saying is most men need to

1067
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 2: have conversation, especially with this some because when I looked

1068
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 2: at sex.

1069
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: I watched porn.

1070
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:04,839
Speaker 2: So I used to go in there like bang bang

1071
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 2: bang bang bang bang. It wasn't romantic, it wasn't physical.

1072
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 2: I was trying to be a porn star and it

1073
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 2: wasn't connecting. But once we figured that out, our relationship

1074
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 2: became better.

1075
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 3: To these days.

1076
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: What I'm saying, but wait a minute, but see the

1077
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,280
Speaker 1: difference is his was a moment of vulnerability.

1078
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 3: Correct, My man's moment was a moment of mach mo.

1079
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 3: Let's just be real.

1080
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 1: I mean, you can joke, but the joke is reflective

1081
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: of a temperament, an idea, a politic, an ideology. And

1082
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 1: I'm saying again that's their business. You're right, because I

1083
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 1: ain't want to put my business out there because there's

1084
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: plenty of failures and flaws for people to pick apart.

1085
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 3: My point is when I say game though, bruh.

1086
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:44,879
Speaker 1: Even if you believe that respect your woman, elevate your woman,

1087
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: understand that in a culture where she's already been demonized

1088
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: as a dark skinned black woman, that could be deeply

1089
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 1: and profoundly problematic as well.

1090
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 3: And it wasn't ten years. I wouldn't say that wasn't

1091
00:48:54,560 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 3: ten years. You started to Michaelaeric Dyson, how you do?

1092
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 3: It's just hilarious. How you doing?

1093
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 1: I'm good?

1094
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 3: I heard all the bank bank, bank, bank, bang, what's

1095
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 3: going on?

1096
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 4: What's going on? Let's let's talk about Beyonce Man and

1097
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 4: what she did with with with with Cowboy Carter?

1098
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 3: What do you? What do you? What does it significant?

1099
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 3: You jumping? Did you come in case you heard something

1100
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 3: that you wanted to say? No? I was like, what's

1101
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 3: going on?

1102
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 1: At first I heard the Cantons owns and Trump, Angela Davis.

1103
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 3: You're talking about your father, and then it was like

1104
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 3: a lot going on.

1105
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 1: Then I heard bank bank bank point.

1106
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 3: I'm like, what what's going on? Mister Marcus is in

1107
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:33,919
Speaker 3: the house.

1108
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, can still but.

1109
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 4: Look what's the significance of what she has just done

1110
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 4: with this cowboy carter out.

1111
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 3: It's incredible.

1112
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 1: First of all, she's reunited a constituency of country music

1113
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 1: that has been alienated, like rock music. Black people right,

1114
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 1: not only the banjo in the Caribbean and in North America.

1115
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: Hearkening back with an ear to Africa, right, because it

1116
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:02,280
Speaker 1: wasn't a same thing. It didn't come over here untranslated.

1117
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 1: We did stuff, We fiddled, no pun intended with it

1118
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 1: to make it what it is today. So black people

1119
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 1: have been in the country my daddy from the beginning.

1120
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,320
Speaker 1: My daddy was from George and mama from Alabama. We

1121
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,800
Speaker 1: listened to the country and Detroit I'm Proud to be

1122
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:21,320
Speaker 1: and Okie from Muscogee. We listening to people whose politics

1123
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: were diametrically opposed to ours. I love a lot of

1124
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: country people who, if they knew who I was, would

1125
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 1: find me reprehensible. So we understood the power of the music.

1126
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: Read Foley listening to this program, Hank Williams, Hey, good.

1127
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 3: Looking, what you got cooking? How's about cooking something up

1128
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 3: with me?

1129
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: Right? We listened to that. We listened to George Jones,

1130
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 1: he's stopped loving her today. Now we didn't see in

1131
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:49,359
Speaker 1: the song he stopped loving her because he was dead.

1132
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 1: But that was an interesting thing. Or Lee Greenwood who

1133
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: Donald Trump has made a bible based on his song,

1134
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 1: So you know, I find him quite reprehensible, but his

1135
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 1: music was powerful. He was talking about a woman who

1136
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:03,839
Speaker 1: cheated him. He said she had a ring on her finger,

1137
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 1: be time on her hands. Damn, come on, bright, I mean,

1138
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: come on, I mean or or the song. You know,

1139
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 1: if I had killed you when I met you, I

1140
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 1: would have been out jail by now. I mean.

1141
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 3: It's some great classics in there.

1142
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: What right, there's some there's some gangst the country.

1143
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 3: My point is, what what?

1144
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 1: What?

1145
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 3: What she did?

1146
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 1: What Beyonce did was reintroduced. Allow me to reintroduce myself.

1147
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:29,800
Speaker 1: Allow America to understand that country music, right, it's the

1148
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 1: white blues and blues might be.

1149
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 3: The black country.

1150
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 1: It's a similar aperture, it's a similar appetite, it's a

1151
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 1: similar perspective. And what she is introduced. She's from Houston.

1152
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:43,800
Speaker 1: What do you think she listened to Besides R and

1153
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 1: B or soul and rock music and so on, she

1154
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,360
Speaker 1: listened to country music to black folk music. And what

1155
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 1: she has done is introduce people to folks that they

1156
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: never even knew before. The black girls backing her up,

1157
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 1: Miss d you know, Britney Spencer, all of them. She

1158
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 1: introduced the Linda Martel, who was a great singer and songwriter.

1159
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 1: She introduces a black woman, She introduced her to him

1160
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 1: to her. Think about Ray Charles. Ray Charles made an

1161
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: album what Songs of a Country in Western? Right, sounds

1162
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 1: of country and Western I'm getting the title wrong. But

1163
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 1: the country establishment rejected him, and yet he gave a

1164
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 1: greater audience to country music than it had for a

1165
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 1: long time. Beyonce is doing the same thing, even th

1166
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 1: when some people might try to hate on her. The

1167
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 1: fact is she has made country cool as one of

1168
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 1: the artists things again, and she's made it viable, and

1169
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,320
Speaker 1: she's made it controversial in the most productive fashion. That

1170
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: is to say, she's forced people to consider what is country?

1171
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 1: How do we define it? Is it Reba McIntyre? Is

1172
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 1: it Dolly pardon? She flips Dolly pardon. No, I ain't

1173
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,839
Speaker 1: gonna say, hey, Joe Lean, you're taking my man. I'm

1174
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 1: saying I'm threatening you. You bet not touch him, so

1175
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 1: she adds her Beyonce moment. She says, this is not

1176
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 1: a country album. It's a Beyonce album, which means I

1177
00:52:56,120 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 1: am the impresario of my own musical taste. They can

1178
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 1: include country music and I can dip down in it,

1179
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:04,319
Speaker 1: show you I can do it, and then dip out

1180
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 1: and show you I can do other things. I think

1181
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: what she's done is extraordinary. It's powerful, it's instructive, and again,

1182
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 1: like she does with most of her music, it helps

1183
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 1: us understand a history, an archive, a tradition, a trajectory,

1184
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,359
Speaker 1: and the power of what she represents is far more

1185
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 1: than some sexy woman on the cover, even the cover

1186
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 1: with the American flag right the blue being obscured because

1187
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 1: of justice, as some have interpreted the blood flowing, her

1188
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 1: ability to be vulnerable at the same time to lay

1189
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 1: claim to what it means to be an American. She's courageous,

1190
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 1: she's powerful, and that album is dope.

1191
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:41,800
Speaker 4: We had Alex randelon and she said she said the

1192
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 4: same thing about Rachel. She actually said, Beyonce is Ray

1193
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 4: Charles's daughter, because she speaks about the first family of

1194
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 4: Black country music.

1195
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 3: She said, for the same.

1196
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,240
Speaker 4: Reason you said Ray Charles bought a brand new audience

1197
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 4: to country music, made the audience bigger.

1198
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 3: Beyonce doing the same thing now she.

1199
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,319
Speaker 1: Is, I mean, and even the black people like, why

1200
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,359
Speaker 1: are we doing that a cowboy head? Why she's doing

1201
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 1: like a white folk that's you don't even understand. They

1202
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 1: didn't white and ize Joe imagination so deep. You don't

1203
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 1: understand what y'all gave to the to the art home.

1204
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 1: And when I think about my friend Dennis sa Cher

1205
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 1: and his lovely wife, uh, they are out here the cheres, uh,

1206
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:20,279
Speaker 1: you know.

1207
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,880
Speaker 3: Doing serious work. He's a cowboy champion.

1208
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: She's an articulate spokeswoman, uh for not only cosmetics, but

1209
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:31,879
Speaker 1: for country music. They started a radio you know. Uh

1210
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 1: uh not a radio, but a music group. They started

1211
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 1: their own record label. I mean, black people are doing

1212
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. They're dead with Dick Bill Pickett.

1213
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 1: I study these people in the fifth grade. My teacher

1214
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 1: made us study them. There's a long tradition of black cowboys,

1215
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: of black country artists, of people who've been doing stuff,

1216
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:52,839
Speaker 1: and yet we don't give them credit. And Beyonce has

1217
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 1: single handedly resurrected like she did would Act one when

1218
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 1: she delved into the history of dance right, you know,

1219
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 1: dance and house music, and to show the gay esthetic

1220
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,399
Speaker 1: at the heart of that tradition, and now coming back

1221
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:10,320
Speaker 1: with the country stuff and showing how we've been involved

1222
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 1: in it.

1223
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:13,360
Speaker 3: Just the level of her genius is remarkable.

1224
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 4: I got one last question for you, because we talked

1225
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:18,320
Speaker 4: about male vulnerability. You know, we saw J Cole recently

1226
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 4: apologize to Kendrick Lamar for some they was going back

1227
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 4: and forth on a record, right. I didn't have no

1228
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 4: problem with the apology. I feel like you know, if

1229
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 4: you if it didn't sit well when he said he

1230
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 4: didn't sit well with my spirit, I ain't got no nothing,

1231
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 4: just talk about it didn't.

1232
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 3: Say well with his spirit? What do you think?

1233
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 1: No, I saw you you were bringing about that give

1234
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:39,879
Speaker 1: him the donkey other day out to people who don't

1235
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 1: understand it. What's interesting to me is how Kendrick Lamar

1236
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,840
Speaker 1: has escaped all screw that. What's interesting to me is

1237
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 1: that he started this stuff right. Why is it that

1238
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: when both Drake and J Cole said with the Big Three,

1239
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 1: they're giving you love, bro, they saying you partly bigg No,

1240
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 1: it ain't no Big Three, it's Big me. Okay, I

1241
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:57,800
Speaker 1: get it. That's the bravado of hip hop and so on.

1242
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 1: I think Kendrick Lamar in many ways is Pac as

1243
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 1: he was Drake and Ja Cole as Poc as he

1244
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:10,320
Speaker 1: could have been. And that's the class right, the evolution

1245
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:13,839
Speaker 1: of Tupac. Right, he dies at what twenty five years old?

1246
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 1: I mean what would he have been at fifty?

1247
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 3: Right?

1248
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 1: The level of genius he already possessed. Tupac was one

1249
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 1: of the greatest intellectuals in the history of hip hop.

1250
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 1: Off Mike, he was cold on the mic, Somebody wake me,

1251
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:28,720
Speaker 1: I'm dreaming, and started as a seed the semen swimming

1252
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 1: upstream planeted in the womb while screaming on the top

1253
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 1: was my pops, my mama, hollering, stopped from a single drop.

1254
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 3: This is what they got.

1255
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:36,839
Speaker 1: Not to disrespect my people, but my papa was a loser,

1256
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 1: only planning that for Mama was the effort and abuser.

1257
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 1: And even as a seed, I could see his plan

1258
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 1: for me, stranded on welfare, another broken family.

1259
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 3: He was dope. He would have to do together. You

1260
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 3: know so many songs.

1261
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 1: We can do that.

1262
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:51,400
Speaker 3: We can do that.

1263
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: But beyond that, his ability to explain, deconstruct and challenge politics.

1264
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:02,800
Speaker 1: And that's why he's still relevant because he was so powerful.

1265
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 1: But he was also a Gemini, right or was he was? He? Yeah,

1266
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:10,320
Speaker 1: and he had a lot of going on in his

1267
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:13,479
Speaker 1: mind and he was he was provocative, he was viola

1268
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:15,840
Speaker 1: to I think he was out of control in many ways.

1269
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 1: And that's why I think Kendrick Lamar had him narrate

1270
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:22,880
Speaker 1: right to Pimper Butterfly. Right, he's talking about Paca. I

1271
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 1: have a conversation with pop. One of the greatest acts

1272
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 1: of rhetorical appropriation in genius that is, uh, mister Kendrick

1273
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 1: Lamar's to Pimper Butterfly. But that's why he's He's attracted

1274
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 1: to that part of Tupac. I think j Cole and

1275
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 1: Drake are the more mature expression of a Pac who

1276
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 1: would see, you ain't got to kill everybody, you ain't

1277
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 1: got to dog everybody, You ain't got to be better

1278
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 1: than everybody. Even jay Z said when he's on that

1279
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 1: song with with you know Lil Wayne my heir, so

1280
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 1: here is my wife and I you know, come harder,

1281
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 1: come faster, Why else?

1282
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 3: Why bother?

1283
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 1: It's right. The mature people, the ones who are in

1284
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 1: control of that stuff. They ain't got a damn man,

1285
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 1: because I know who I am. But Kendrick seems to

1286
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 1: be obsessed, even though he's got a pulletzer, even though

1287
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 1: he's brilliant, even though he's a genius. Even though I

1288
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 1: do think Rolling Stone had it wrong though Jay z

1289
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 1: won Kendrick two nds three, Yes, bro, you ain't got

1290
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 1: enough work, right, and you've got great work. But the

1291
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 1: work of Nids, the work of j that's on a

1292
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 1: different order.

1293
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 3: So I'm saying Kendrick, it is too early.

1294
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 1: He's a genius, he's in He's one of the top

1295
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 1: rappers ever. But I say all that to say, look,

1296
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 1: I think Jake Cole was mature. He wasn't. It was

1297
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 1: half hearted anyway, It's not my heart's not in it,

1298
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 1: because he could have destroyed him further than more than

1299
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 1: that he could have. J Cole is a surgeon with

1300
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 1: those words, he's he's precise, He's surgical in his strikes.

1301
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 1: Drake is a monster, right, Jake can't even responded. Maybe

1302
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 1: he'll respond to the name, Maybe Jake Cole. I don't

1303
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,640
Speaker 1: think j Cole will. Maybe it with metro booming and

1304
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:57,720
Speaker 1: the future coming out again with their Deluxe. Maybe Kendrick has.

1305
00:58:57,680 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 3: More to say.

1306
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 1: I think you know, look, it was much sure to

1307
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 1: say I'm not gonna take this in a negative fashion.

1308
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: I don't even believe this guy because I love him

1309
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:07,560
Speaker 1: and appreciate him. That should Shane Kendrick. I don't think

1310
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 1: it will. That should say to Kendrick, what am I

1311
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 1: doing wrong? That three men who are great two of

1312
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 1: them recognize me? But I have to be the only

1313
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 1: one in the sandlot to play with the toys because

1314
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 1: I'm the greatest. That's one way of talking about it.

1315
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 1: But there are other ways of talking about masculinity. There

1316
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 1: are other ways of talking about greatness. There are other

1317
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 1: ways of speaking. Because Drake said he was the coldest,

1318
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 1: j Cole said he was the coldest, and Kendrick said

1319
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 1: he is the coldest. But they didn't do it at

1320
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 1: the expense of you. They didn't name your name to

1321
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 1: try to suggest that you are not the bell, whether

1322
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:41,959
Speaker 1: the benchmark or the standard by which hip hop should

1323
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 1: be judged. So I think it's a little bit more

1324
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 1: growing needs to be done by Kendrick Lamar to catch

1325
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:50,920
Speaker 1: up with his rhetorical genius, his psychological disposition, because, as

1326
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 1: you said, well, when we look back, maybe four four

1327
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:58,960
Speaker 1: four and mister bigness Morell big Stepper, I mean to me,

1328
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 1: Kingdom Come was a warm up for four four four

1329
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 1: that got rejected unfairly. The only beef I've ever had

1330
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 1: with jay Z is that put Kingdom Come higher on

1331
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 1: your list of your own albums because it was a

1332
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 1: mature effort. When we look at Drake's take care, when

1333
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:16,080
Speaker 1: we look at Maybe Even, nothing was ever the same.

1334
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 1: I mean, j Cole, Drake and Kendrick have made ingenious

1335
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 1: music and we ain't got to choose one over the other.

1336
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 1: We can have personal preferences for sure, but I think

1337
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 1: Kendrick Lamar needs to be challenged a little.

1338
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 3: Bit to grow up. All right, Well, there you have it.

1339
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 3: Always a pleasure. I love Kendrick Lamar.

1340
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 1: What I'm saying, appreciate you for joining us, Thank you

1341
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 1: all for having me.

1342
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:40,720
Speaker 3: It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning, wake that ass up

1343
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:42,960
Speaker 3: in the morning. The Breakfast Club