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Speaker 1: Oh hey, I didn't tell anybody I was gonna do

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Speaker 1: last time I would I say, oh hey, dude, Hey man,

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Speaker 1: what's up? It's me? What's up? Hey, what's up? Man?

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Speaker 1: It's th h C. Right Phil, I hope, I hope.

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Speaker 1: We're not gonna We're gonna use this. Okay, that's my

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Speaker 1: new intro, sup dude, It's th C Episode eight five

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Speaker 1: in the House. Yikes. Episode eighty five includes Phil being hungover.

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Speaker 1: That's a it's a he went out last night and

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Speaker 1: he's just not as. He's not so sharp right now? Hey,

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Speaker 1: good plug, Yeah, not so sharp. But anyways. Eighty five

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Speaker 1: includes the great and powerful Sam Soholt of the public

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Speaker 1: Land Van and Uh. It also includes the great and

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Speaker 1: probably even more powerful as you'll find uh Clay Nukele

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Speaker 1: from Bear Hunting Magazine and many other things. And we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about bear baiting with Clay, with Sam, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about his stamp at four projects. We've got

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Speaker 1: the contest and name fils Mustache, which is awesome. And

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Speaker 1: then we got a couple of emails from you folks

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Speaker 1: that rode into the hunt collective. Are you looking forward

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Speaker 1: to the name your mustache? Contest. Phil, you know, I

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Speaker 1: actually am you. Actually, it's been cathartic from exciting to

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Speaker 1: you yell at people on Mike about how real they

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Speaker 1: are very upset. Uh, it's so Sam's here. Sam, We're

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Speaker 1: going on a rifle hunt for Elk here like tomorrow. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we are indeed tomorrow leaving tomorrow. Okay, Episode eighty five

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Speaker 1: coming right at you, let's go. I guess I grew

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Speaker 1: up on an older road, a pedal to the meadows.

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Speaker 1: I always did what I've told until I found out

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Speaker 1: that my brand new closed a game second hand from

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Speaker 1: the rich kids next door. And I grew up fast.

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Speaker 1: I guess I grew up. I mean, they have a

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Speaker 1: thousand things inside of my head I wish I ain't saying,

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Speaker 1: and now I just wanted to real bad dreams of

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Speaker 1: being in like I'm coming a part of the scenes.

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Speaker 1: But thank you, Jack Daniel, Hey, everybody. Episode eighty five continues.

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Speaker 1: I'm here with Sam, Soholt. It's good to be here.

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Speaker 1: It hasn't been that long. Hasn't really been that long

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Speaker 1: now we're here, not so long ago. Yeah, I can't

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Speaker 1: remember what we talked about. I can't remember any we did.

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Speaker 1: The top fives. Oh yeah, TC Top fives. That was fun. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I wish you would have published all the answers because

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Speaker 1: I feel like I did well. You did well. No, no, yeah, actually,

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Speaker 1: let's we could go back to that and say that

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Speaker 1: last time Sam was on he he's I think swept

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Speaker 1: the T A C Top fives, gave the best answers

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Speaker 1: in every single one, and and it just happened to

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Speaker 1: Phil got honorable mention on everyone as well. Wow, thanks Ben. Well.

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Speaker 1: The thing is he didn't give people the option to

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Speaker 1: vote for my any of my top five. Oh that

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Speaker 1: was my bad. But you got honorable mention yet, which

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Speaker 1: it's that's like a participation trophy. I am a millennial.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, man, you did all right. But now it's uh,

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Speaker 1: we're into we're almost in the November, and like we

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Speaker 1: just said, we're getting ready to go try killing Elk

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Speaker 1: with a riffle. Yes. Yeah, it's uh, it's crazy how

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Speaker 1: fast this fall has gone. It seems like all I've

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Speaker 1: been doing is driving around but which which isn't, which

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Speaker 1: isn't far from the truth. Nobody would be surprised to

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Speaker 1: hear that. All Yeah, No, I mean I bought a

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Speaker 1: van and in September and I've already put over five

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Speaker 1: thousand miles on it, so speaking, which, I need to

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Speaker 1: get the oil changed in the van before we leave

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Speaker 1: in the sun. Are we hunting out of the van? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the van will be in base camp alright, got a

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Speaker 1: t P in the van, and yeah it'll be good.

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Speaker 1: All right, we got a van and the TP were

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Speaker 1: probably gonna be cold. Yep, they'll be elk everywhere. Probably

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Speaker 1: gonna be lots of that. We were talking about last

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Speaker 1: night briefly, Uh, grizzly bears. Yeah, but I just had

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Speaker 1: a good conversation with Jared Fraser of two Percent, and

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Speaker 1: he's been in that area before, and uh, he was

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Speaker 1: saying the latest he had ever seen grizzly bears in

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Speaker 1: that country is in early October. So with the cold

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Speaker 1: weather and the snow and everything, we might they be gone. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they might be gone. We'll just you know, run smacked

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Speaker 1: dab into a whole pack of a whole pack like

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Speaker 1: these guys, right into a pack of grizzly I understand

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Speaker 1: bears no traveling packs. But yeah, yeah, you never know,

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Speaker 1: you never know this country. They might Phil's hungover, Hey, Phil, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what's up? You went out last night. Yeah, there was

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Speaker 1: an on X event. We were all so that's that

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Speaker 1: was only my first stop the night. Uh, and so yeah,

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Speaker 1: I went to one more establishment. Your mouth is dry

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Speaker 1: right now. Probably I've been drinking a lot of water.

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Speaker 1: You got a headache, drading? You got a headache, have

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Speaker 1: a headache. You're feeling It's not been a while since

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Speaker 1: I felt this way, and I don't like it. All

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Speaker 1: the synapses are firing quite. I left it like seven

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Speaker 1: o'clock and went and put my children to bed, my

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Speaker 1: child to bed and read them book and saying it

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Speaker 1: a song. You were out running the town like a vagrant. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I too have children. Are you sure you don't need

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Speaker 1: a beer? Oh? Yeah, we're drinking. We're drinking. What's this?

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Speaker 1: I was trying to not make any eye contact with

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Speaker 1: the beer and just pretend that it's not in the

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Speaker 1: room right now. But thanks for bringing it up. My

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Speaker 1: beer onto the mic. Um, Yeah, it's only eleven and

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Speaker 1: twelve in the a M. Yeah, it's five o'clock. It's

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Speaker 1: five o'clock somewhere, so we're in Europe. Um, speaking of that,

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Speaker 1: we got a nice whiskey and ethics. Uh, segment coming

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Speaker 1: up or we didn't drink whiskey because it was nine

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Speaker 1: in the morning, but the whiskey was here. And we

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Speaker 1: also made one uh it' said we have the little

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Speaker 1: pairs with on our meat eat or straight bourbon whiskey.

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Speaker 1: We made one that says has says pairs with bear

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Speaker 1: bait in honor of our baiting conversation. So that's coming

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Speaker 1: up with Clay Nucombe. But before we get there were

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Speaker 1: a lot same We got a lot of important stuff.

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Speaker 1: You won't have been a part of a lot of this,

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Speaker 1: but we got a lot of important stuff to cover

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Speaker 1: before we get to your this project that you you've

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Speaker 1: embarked on. First one, I got I print out some

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Speaker 1: paper again. Remember last time I print out paper fill?

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Speaker 1: I like to make the sound yep, sounds official shufflinging

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Speaker 1: with papers. Anyway, this is um the name Fills Mustache contest.

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Speaker 1: And the winner of this contest is going to get

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Speaker 1: a THHD hat. I didn't know that. You didn't know.

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Speaker 1: I just made it up. People that wrote in didn't

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Speaker 1: know what they were going to get, but now they do.

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Speaker 1: Uh And so Sam, you're gonna help us select the winner. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I love this. The first one name of Phil's mustache.

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Speaker 1: Remember Phil's mustache. It's getting better. But when we recorded

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Speaker 1: the plea for mustache names, it was not great. It

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Speaker 1: was just like a dust upper lip dusting. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: it's filled in, but it's still you know, it's blonde.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't look I can't wear a mustache. What are you

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Speaker 1: thinking about it? Sam? It's coming in good, yeah, a

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Speaker 1: little just from like we're talking about that last week. No,

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Speaker 1: I did that in college. We grew every Yeah, every

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Speaker 1: year we would grow conference mustaches for our indoor track

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Speaker 1: and field conference meet. And I grew a horrendous mustache

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Speaker 1: and never it didn't grow in the middle, had like

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Speaker 1: a nice like like a super good gap. And then

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Speaker 1: so yeah, we would do uh, just for men to

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Speaker 1: darken them up a little bit. Maybe we can get

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Speaker 1: them as a sponsor. It's so good. No one can

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Speaker 1: tell Phil. It's just from men Jail, just from still

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Speaker 1: got it. Hey, if anybody listen, it works at just

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Speaker 1: from men Jael. We love you to sponsor this ongoing

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Speaker 1: saying about fool most that I'd like to get. I

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Speaker 1: think we should do touch of gray though, yea in

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Speaker 1: the middle, Yeah, makes it look distinguished like I'm into that,

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Speaker 1: all right. Well, we have five choices here, all right,

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Speaker 1: And and I took this around the Mediator offices and

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Speaker 1: they got a lot of votes and got some comments

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Speaker 1: from our colleagues. But we're gonna make the decision here. Okay, ready, Phil,

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Speaker 1: I'm ready. Let's hear. First one comes from Brian Nelson,

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Speaker 1: just shuffling the papers around. Uh it's the ghost of

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Speaker 1: Stash Past. The Ghost of Stash Past from Brian Nelson,

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Speaker 1: Thanks for writing. Then in Brian Greg Morris wrote in

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Speaker 1: Furry Terminator. Also he said Gary that was his like

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Speaker 1: second one, So he was either one of those two wins.

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Speaker 1: He wins. I gave him too because Gary was It

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Speaker 1: was funny. Bade me laugh like Gary because it kind

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Speaker 1: of looks like Gary. It could be a Gary. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I think of Gary. I think of that mustache. Uh.

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Speaker 1: This is from a person I said unknown because it

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Speaker 1: was just their email and their email is weird. But

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Speaker 1: this person wrote in seven seven am Shadow. Okay, that's

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Speaker 1: pretty good one. Yeah, creative. Ryan Hutley wrote in Skimpy

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Speaker 1: mcweek Stash a buddy, and Brian Gottfried wrote in Pecker Duster,

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Speaker 1: And I threw that in there just as an homage

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Speaker 1: to everyone who wrote in with offensive mustache names. So

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Speaker 1: I threw pecker Duster in there just let you know

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Speaker 1: that I've read your womb rooms and your other terrible names,

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Speaker 1: and but I won't include him here. No, I'm withholding

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Speaker 1: those from the contest. Any dusting my my I do

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Speaker 1: is is not exclusive. I you know, I spread it

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Speaker 1: and I spread around your equal opportunity, duster bombs or peggers.

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Speaker 1: We have devolved. How much further do you think this

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Speaker 1: podcast can actually devolved? Because it turns into like we

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Speaker 1: have like a ridiculous conversation, then we get into some serious,

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Speaker 1: like very deep conversation. See, I don't think yeah this,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure since you have graciously invited me on the

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Speaker 1: show every week, it is not he doesn't want to

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Speaker 1: be he's getting it's not the same show. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you pitched to like the higher powers to like get

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Speaker 1: this podcast off like made. And so I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'll have this guy, he's never hunted before. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: know anything about it, but he's got I'm gonna have

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Speaker 1: mustache naming contests and you know the like top five lists. Well,

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Speaker 1: I I choose Gary choose, but that like that comes

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Speaker 1: that stems from a long line of liking to name

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Speaker 1: things like random human names instead, you know, especially when

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Speaker 1: it comes to like deer my James, my my my

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Speaker 1: wife named our cat Kevin, so we have a cat

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Speaker 1: named Kevin. They also have a dog named Mango. Mango.

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Speaker 1: I like it, Thank you, Sam, I like it, Sames

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Speaker 1: what they're saying that because I like the mustache and like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I like everything. Hey, we should have Sam

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Speaker 1: on more often. Sam's on your side. If I was

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Speaker 1: feeling yesterday Philly, you were just a little bit dejected

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Speaker 1: about your like what's going on? You were like, you're

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Speaker 1: turning heel on me, You're just like it becoming a

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Speaker 1: little upset about No, not at all. No, I just

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Speaker 1: felt like maybe a vibe that you were just like,

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Speaker 1: you're not You're not happy. No, I love I love

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Speaker 1: doing this show every week. Okay, that was listen. I

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Speaker 1: don't have the energy to not sound sarcastic. All right, Well, God,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, is it is it? I I don't

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Speaker 1: think the ghost of Stash past I don't. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think it's sure, it's fine, it's worthy of being in

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Speaker 1: the list. But it's not going to get there. Seven

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Speaker 1: am shadow is in the sense one it's a good one,

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Speaker 1: but it's just like not it doesn't make me laugh. No,

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Speaker 1: and if if it were more realistic, it would actually

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Speaker 1: be like it would be the five clack shadow. But

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Speaker 1: but just that the next day or even a day later,

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Speaker 1: it's actually worse than they think it is. Yeah, that's true.

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Speaker 1: Uh Peckard Duster, we're going to write that off. So

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Speaker 1: it's it's really furry terminator or also Gary and Skimpy mcweeks. Listen,

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Speaker 1: I like, I can't be mad today. I like Skimpy mcweeks.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty good. What kind of reminds me? Was it?

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Speaker 1: Noah that they had a naming contest for their boat,

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Speaker 1: like the Big Ocean. That's what botey mcboat face. For

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Speaker 1: that reason, it actually won that reason. Phil, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: ask you to put some like sound effects in here,

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Speaker 1: like drum roll, So please put a drum roll in

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Speaker 1: wait for that. Skimpy mcweek stash is the winner. Ryan Hutley, congrats,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna get a hat and all the affection that hungover? Phil?

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Speaker 1: Can I hate that we're talking about my hangover? It's

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Speaker 1: gonna be released into the world, you know, because I

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Speaker 1: feel like I meant listen, I'm at work, I'm doing

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Speaker 1: my job. I'm a responsible But also I feel like

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Speaker 1: there's shame that comes along with the shame. I feel shame.

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Speaker 1: Don't feel shame, Phil, don't feel shame at all. I

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Speaker 1: think there's other things for be shameful about. This isn't

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Speaker 1: one of them. The mustaches. Yeah, that'd be one that

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Speaker 1: definitely be one. Alright, moving on, we've covered that. It's

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Speaker 1: give me a Greek stash. I hope, I hope she

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Speaker 1: stays around for for a while. Don't shave it off.

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Speaker 1: See about that. Don't shave it off after Halloween? Keep

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Speaker 1: it okay, we'll see keep it. You're like a young

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Speaker 1: Tom Selleck. I don't like having it, and I don't

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Speaker 1: like it's It's long enough now the point where I'm

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Speaker 1: very aware of it. How about this, I'm making Sam

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Speaker 1: see if you like this, I'll make a deal with you, Phil. Yes,

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Speaker 1: if you keep the mustache, we'll do a segment well

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Speaker 1: on the show that you can choose what we talk

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Speaker 1: about and we'll call it Dr Phil m And you

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Speaker 1: can do you can say whatever you want. You can

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Speaker 1: have listeners, right, Yeah, this is your time. I make

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Speaker 1: a deal with you. Do you accept my proposal? Tentatively?

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Speaker 1: I really don't like this mustache. I don't even know

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Speaker 1: if it's worth my own segment on the show, but

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Speaker 1: I'll think about it. You don't turn down. I've never

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Speaker 1: offered something like that before. I'd say it'll grow on you.

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Speaker 1: But it's a terrible, terrible dad joke. Yeah, where's Remy

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Speaker 1: when we need them? Remy? Honestly, honestly, Um, sorry, uh, Sam,

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Speaker 1: we gotta turn this thing around. You're doing something really cool.

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Speaker 1: And We've been talking about this for a while now,

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Speaker 1: and I've been telling you how f and awesome it

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Speaker 1: is for for some weeks here. Can you just explain

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Speaker 1: to us what's going on. Yeah, So, uh, it's called

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Speaker 1: the Stamp It Forward Project, and it uh, it's stemmed

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Speaker 1: from way back really being growing up being like die

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Speaker 1: hard waterfowl hunter. Um. And then you know, after transitioning

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Speaker 1: into big game hunting and learning more about conservation and

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Speaker 1: what people can do to give back, you start to

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Speaker 1: learn about all of these conservation tools that are already

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Speaker 1: in place, and one of the simplest, most effective conservation

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Speaker 1: tools that exists is the federal duck Stamp program. And

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Speaker 1: the cool thing about it is you don't have to

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Speaker 1: have a hunting license, you don't have to have a

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Speaker 1: hunter safety card, you don't have to be a member

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Speaker 1: of any like conservation organization. Uh, you don't have to

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Speaker 1: even think about hunting like it. You can literally either

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Speaker 1: go to a sporting good store or post office or

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Speaker 1: hop online and you can buy a stamp and buy law.

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Speaker 1: Of the money from every stamp goes back to purchasing

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Speaker 1: more wetland habitat or conservation easements. Basically, it all gets

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Speaker 1: pumped back into creating more habitat and wildlife. And this

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Speaker 1: is whether the US Fishing and Wildlife Service says on

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Speaker 1: their website, they say, of the purchase price goes directly

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Speaker 1: to help acquire and protect wetland habits at and purchase

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Speaker 1: conservation easements for the National Wildlife Refuge System. Wetland acquired,

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Speaker 1: wetlands acquired with duck stamp dollars help purify water, aid

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Speaker 1: and flood control, all reduced soil erosion and sedimentation, and

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Speaker 1: enhanced out recreation opportunities. Pretty damn simple. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and above and beyond just helping migratory bird species. It

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Speaker 1: helps like I think the I watched the whole documentary

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Speaker 1: on it and hows seven species overall, and just you know,

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Speaker 1: what's good for birds is also good for that million

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Speaker 1: dollar duck. Yeah. Yeah. And so we're not gonna we're

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Speaker 1: not doing on this podcast, but we have um someone

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Speaker 1: from the US Facial Life Service. We're gonna get on

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Speaker 1: later in December to talk about the history of the

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Speaker 1: duck stamp. Will probably have you back go on to

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Speaker 1: kind of recap where you're where your project is. But

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Speaker 1: let's get into exactly what's going on. So the project

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Speaker 1: has evolved um really over the like almost the last year.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of when I started thinking about it and

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Speaker 1: it started. My original thought was, how do we just

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Speaker 1: you know, use quote unquote influencers in the industry to

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Speaker 1: just encourage people to go out and buy a duck

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Speaker 1: stamp and start talking about how cool this conservation to

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Speaker 1: will is. And it seemed like you might lose Um.

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Speaker 1: It didn't seem like it would be powerful enough to

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Speaker 1: like really push people over the top to go do it.

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Speaker 1: And so instead it evolved into how do we collectively

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Speaker 1: purchased as many stamps as possible, and then it would

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Speaker 1: just be me would be the one going and doing

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Speaker 1: all of the purchasing of the stamps, and so we

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Speaker 1: can keep a complete tally of how many we buy,

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Speaker 1: how much money is raised for conservation, and so on

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Speaker 1: October seven, UM, I have made the first post about it.

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Speaker 1: And what I did is through our company, Public Land Teas,

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Speaker 1: we have a five dollars from every item we sell

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Speaker 1: goes directly back to conservation, So we have a donation fund.

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Speaker 1: And I took cash out of the donation fund and

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Speaker 1: I drove around to post offices and different locations and

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Speaker 1: purchased a hundred duck stamps, so basically donated directly to conservation.

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Speaker 1: And then after I bought that hundred, I put together

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Speaker 1: a post in a video encouraging people to send me

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Speaker 1: money directly as a just a straight donation, as a

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Speaker 1: way to pay it forward or stamp it forward for

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Speaker 1: your fellow sportsmen and women. And with all of the

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Speaker 1: money that I receive, I go out and buy additional

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Speaker 1: Duck stamps. So the amount of people that jumped on

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Speaker 1: board on this is unbelievable. Let me let me just

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Speaker 1: say this, And I was telling you this the other

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Speaker 1: day in a world where we as marketers, like if

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Speaker 1: I'm being honest, like we when you're when you see

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Speaker 1: a contest, when you see someone like hey, come hunt

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Speaker 1: with me, or hey, that is because somebody wants something

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Speaker 1: from you. You You gotta give your email, you gotta give

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Speaker 1: you information. They're gonna use that information to market to

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Speaker 1: you later. That's how it works. You didn't already know that,

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Speaker 1: now you do in a world where like just to

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Speaker 1: get someone's email, they're being trained to like want something,

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Speaker 1: you know, when a truck when do you see this

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Speaker 1: in a hunting world all the time, a day in

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Speaker 1: and day out, everybody has these extravagant things to give you. Right,

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Speaker 1: nothing is free in this world. So when when you're

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Speaker 1: able to do you'll you'll give folks the number in

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Speaker 1: a minute, when you're able to do what you're doing

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Speaker 1: with no incentive, like the very little incentive over and

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Speaker 1: then to pay forward this this incredible conservation idea and

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Speaker 1: the function of what the duck stamp is, it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's amazing to me. It's amazing. Yeah, And I I

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Speaker 1: was honestly blown away with with how like how readily

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Speaker 1: people jumped on board with the whole concept, and so, uh,

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Speaker 1: we did the initial hundred, and then through the course

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Speaker 1: of the last I guess two and a half weeks

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Speaker 1: that it's been running um simply from straight donations. We've

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Speaker 1: raised enough to buy an additional almost three hundred stamps

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Speaker 1: from people just sending me money directly. And then I

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Speaker 1: have four companies so far that have jumped on board

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Speaker 1: to match my initial hundred stamp investment. Would you say

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Speaker 1: it was Vortex, Vortex, Gerber, Savage Arms, and boss Shot

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Speaker 1: Shells just jumped on yesterday. Thank you to those folks.

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Speaker 1: That is again like, this is not this isn't who's

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Speaker 1: sponsored by who or what company? I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: if you give to this movement, you're just given a

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Speaker 1: conservation and I don't give a ship. If you're sponsored

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Speaker 1: or not, or you're involved or not. It is is

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Speaker 1: a it's an act that is altruistic. Yeah, so we

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Speaker 1: at this point we are close to uh having I

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Speaker 1: mean I've purchased four hundreds so far, and then the

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Speaker 1: other four hundred will come as soon as that money

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Speaker 1: hits the bank. So yeah, up to almost eight hundred stamps. Man,

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Speaker 1: and listen if you're listening to this and you have

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Speaker 1: bucks give it to Sam, Like for a lot of reasons. Right,

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Speaker 1: you could go out and buy your own stamp and

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Speaker 1: give it to your neighbor. It doesn't really matter. But

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Speaker 1: what really matters is the idea that we we're true

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Speaker 1: to our word as hunters when we stand on top

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Speaker 1: of conservation, like it's a platform. Well, if it's going

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Speaker 1: to be a platform, we're gonna stand on top of

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Speaker 1: it and we're gonna use it as a reason why

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Speaker 1: we do what we do. We could give to something

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Speaker 1: a little bit bigger than just twenty dollars, And that's

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Speaker 1: what I think this is. It's bigger than just twenty

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Speaker 1: five bucks. It's bigger than just giving a stamp to

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Speaker 1: someone else. It's it's like a it's an understanding of

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Speaker 1: that we can share this with other people. And thank

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Speaker 1: god the federal government has has basically an act of

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Speaker 1: attacks to allow us to kind of express what we believe.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's what you're doing. Yeah, and you know,

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Speaker 1: like the only people that are required to purchase federal

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Speaker 1: duck stamp every year are people that waterfowl hunt. So obviously,

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00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,679
Speaker 1: growing up, every year I had bought a waterfowl stamp,

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Speaker 1: and uh, but again it's something that every single person

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Speaker 1: can do whatever, you know, regardless of you hunt or not.

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Speaker 1: And I was reading some other stuff from the Fish

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Speaker 1: Wide Serves. The federal duck stamp is also a free

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Speaker 1: past to any national wildlife refuge that charges an entry fee.

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Speaker 1: So that's a big thing that I didn't really ever

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Speaker 1: realize that's a hunter, you just kind of it's a

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00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 1: transaction of writing, right. Um. All duck stamp proceeds are

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Speaker 1: used to can or habitat for for birds and other wildlife.

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Speaker 1: So burgers, nature photographers out there, enthusiasts can buy stamps

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00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 1: to go towards these things. But if you're a hunter,

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Speaker 1: as we always tell it as hunters, you're buying this

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Speaker 1: stamp and it's going to other things. It's helping habitat

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Speaker 1: across the board. Sure it helps migratory birds and ducks

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Speaker 1: that we hunt and geese that we hunt, but by god,

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Speaker 1: it helps everyone, right, you know. And not to mention

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Speaker 1: there's really cool stories about um, like the artists behind

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Speaker 1: the duck stamp and the history of the duck stamp,

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00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,640
Speaker 1: and like I said, in the future podcast will cover those,

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Speaker 1: But like the idea of this, it's the best conservation

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Speaker 1: program going. Well, thank you, I think so. Yeah, no,

404
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Speaker 1: I would agree, I think so. And if you're not listening,

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Speaker 1: if you're not a wildlife biologist, and you're not out

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Speaker 1: there working on conservation projects, and you want to call

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00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 1: yourself a conservationist, there's other ways to be one. And

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00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 1: that's what Same is doing. Like he's promoting the idea

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Speaker 1: of conservation, the transactional idea of it, but also the

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Speaker 1: in gender passion for donating to the cause. And the

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Speaker 1: federal duck stamp is one of the like with a

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Speaker 1: few taxes that is unanimously raised whenever they need it. Right,

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Speaker 1: nobody's voting against the raising of the duck stamp tax.

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Speaker 1: The folks that are being taxed, in fact, would probably

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Speaker 1: all say give it a raise, we don't care. Bucks

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Speaker 1: is fine. So then, on top of all the money

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Speaker 1: we've raised, just to simply purchase stamps as a way

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Speaker 1: to generate even more for conservation. Um, we are currently

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Speaker 1: I don't know when this podcast will come out, but

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Speaker 1: we'll still have stamps available. We are currently giving away

421
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 1: a duck stamp with every single item purchased at public

422
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,719
Speaker 1: Land tees dot Com. So through that we've generated another

423
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:44,919
Speaker 1: chunk of money that we're gonna be able to donate

424
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: directly back to conservation. Yeah. Man, go buy a T shirt.

425
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 1: You can wear the T shirt, give that duck stamp

426
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 1: to someone, but don't just give it to him. Tell

427
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: them about what we're talking about right now. Educate somebody else,

428
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 1: give it, you know, give it to anybody who wants,

429
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 1: some stranger on the street. Just educate. I've been telling Sam.

430
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, just take them and like go places and

431
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 1: given to people and explain what this is. Because what

432
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 1: this is is is an example of what we talked

433
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: about with our model of conservation the last you know,

434
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,239
Speaker 1: since ninety six, all these things that have built up

435
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 1: over time that have been positive for wildlife conservation, and

436
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 1: we will be donating a good chunk of them, uh,

437
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 1: two different organizations for first time hunters or whatever it

438
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: might be, just to kind of pay it forward that way. Yeah,

439
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: I mean, and in the in the idea of pay

440
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,159
Speaker 1: it forward, Like if it was me, I'd wear the

441
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: T shirt, I put the stamp in my wallet, and

442
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 1: when someone came up to me and questioned me about hunting,

443
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: I would take that stamp out. I would hand it

444
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 1: to them and I would explain to them what's going on,

445
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 1: and like, that's what this could be if we allow

446
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: it to be right. You know, these things aren't just

447
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 1: passes to any national wilife refuge. They're like a little

448
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: piece of history that you can hand over and be like, hey,

449
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: look here's what's up. Exactly tell these people that. And

450
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 1: that's why you know, if you're listening to this, just

451
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: go you just go to your your Instagram page, go

452
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: to my Instagram page. It's all on there. I mean,

453
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,719
Speaker 1: I could tell him exactly how to send me money directly.

454
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 1: If so, if you'd like to donate directly, you can

455
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: either send me money either at PayPal, which is just

456
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 1: public land Teas at gmail dot com, or my Venmo account,

457
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 1: which is just at Sam Sulhol. So you're Venmo and

458
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: a guy money, right, You're just gonna give him and

459
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 1: he's gonna go buy stamps and he's gonna spread the word, right,

460
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,640
Speaker 1: So um, feel for you to spread it yourself, my god.

461
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: But but um, if you let Sam do it for you, man,

462
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: there's a lot of benefits as you'll just that we

463
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 1: can all that will all see through this, and I've

464
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: always thought that, you know, when I watched Million Dollar

465
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 1: Duck for the first time, I was just struck by

466
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 1: how much I didn't know about this thing that I

467
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 1: always I gotta get my stamp right, and there's so

468
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 1: much I didn't know. Similar with somewhere with the Endanger

469
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 1: Species Act, Similar with Piven Robertson, Similar with all like

470
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 1: the Lacy Acts. Somewhere with all of these legislations that

471
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: have kind of mark the way that we do are

472
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: what we love. Understand more about them, and you'll be

473
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: empowered to spread the word. Exactly what do you think

474
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: about that? Phil Amen? I like hungever, Phil, It's a

475
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 1: simpler answer. It doesn't know, it doesn't know, so how

476
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: much like what do you do you have? How much

477
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 1: have you raised us far? So? Uh? Last night actually

478
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 1: we cracked d raised so far so um, which is

479
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 1: roughly seven sixty stamps. But I think I had another

480
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,239
Speaker 1: hundred fifty bucks roll in this morning on VENMO. So

481
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: it just keeps kind of filing and people as more

482
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,439
Speaker 1: people share it, it just continues to grow. Do you

483
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 1: have any plans to like do some I'm telling you, like,

484
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 1: do some events, do some things where you just hand

485
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 1: out duck stamps forever shows up. Yeah, I don't have

486
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: any plans for that right now, but I definitely want

487
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: to do some things like that, and whether it be

488
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: this year that I do that, But this Stamp It

489
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: Forward project is not going to stop this fall, like

490
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: I have much larger plans for Yeah, I mean we have, uh,

491
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: Susanne fellows or were scheduled. Of course, Susanne fellows here

492
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 1: later this year, and she's works for the US Fish

493
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: and Wildlife Service and she uh we talked to her

494
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,360
Speaker 1: briefly care in our podcast. Per talked to her briefly

495
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 1: in her passion about the duck stamp was like coming

496
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: through the phone. So I look forward to traveling to

497
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: d C and talk to her. So we'll have you

498
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 1: back on the bann or Susanne. I'm sorry, Susanne on

499
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: to talk about it and we'll see where you are.

500
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: But if you're listen to this, like you said, I've

501
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,120
Speaker 1: already kind of said my piece about this. But there's

502
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 1: there's like an example that Sam is setting for everybody

503
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: that is important, Like there isn't we all talk about

504
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: conservation and it is that is kind of a ground

505
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 1: swell within our world. We also all talk about public lands.

506
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: We all talk about these concepts, you know that that

507
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: are important to us. But here is a guy sitting

508
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: across from me that is doing something about it. And

509
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 1: it's it's it's not that you have to go pick

510
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: up trash on public land. You could just like raise

511
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: people's awareness for these important constructs of our our system.

512
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: And Sam has done that with the public land bus

513
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: and now the public Land van and now stamp it Forward.

514
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: It's like, if if our world needed marketing, this is

515
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: the kind of marketing that it needs and the kind

516
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 1: of activism, in my opinion, that it needs. So thank you, Sam, Well,

517
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 1: thank you, So go and do it. Go give s.

518
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: If you don't want to give Sam twenty five, go

519
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: buy a duck Stammages. Tell somebody what it means and

520
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 1: what it is and why it's important and why No

521
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: other country that I'm aware of has a system like that. Yeah,

522
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: I guess I haven't done the research, but neither, but

523
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say it. I think I think Canada

524
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: does have a federal state whatever. That's not America, but

525
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: you know, they fall under the North American model of

526
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: conservation so it makes sense. Listen to the federal stamp

527
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: image of this year's as a wood duck, right, wood

528
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: duck in the foreground and then a decoy in the background.

529
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 1: A guy named Scott Storm Painted did the painting, and uh,

530
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: he was kind enough to actually send me a selfie

531
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: video of him basically talking about the duck stamp and

532
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: the importance of the duck stamp that I was able

533
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: to post on my on my Instagram story. So, and

534
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: here's another thing. When you do something like what Sam's doing,

535
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: you don't know what it's going to actually do in

536
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: the end, Like you're not sure what it's going to

537
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: bring to you. Like, when you do something good like this,

538
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: it brings all these weird ancillary things that you just

539
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: didn't expect, all these connections with people and companies and things. Um.

540
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: And so follow this man's example and go do something,

541
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: do something impactful. Um. Even if you have a small

542
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,959
Speaker 1: file and it doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter. So

543
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: it's important. Right, that's right, Phil, Let's give you a

544
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: big week stays all right, that's it. Every we were

545
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: good on that, Sam, We're good on that. We're gonna

546
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: go elkhint, You're gonna come back later and you're gonna

547
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: tell us I'm one. I want six figures out of

548
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: the Son of a Bitch. I wanted to be a

549
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars in the bank by the time you

550
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: come back in in late December. It would be amazing,

551
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: that amazing. Help pass this forward. Go go to Sam's

552
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: Instagram page and find out more than stamp it forward.

553
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 1: Do it anyway. There's a lot of good things that

554
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: we need to talk about. But before we get to

555
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: Clay nucom in our conversational bear rating, we need to

556
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: get to the third installment of work Sharps not So

557
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: Sharp Moments. Phil play the jingle sharp not so Sharp

558
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: poement so you don't have to. Okay, we got a

559
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: good not so sharp moment this time, Phil, and it's

560
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: from a female listener. Her name is Kaylee Howard. That's good. Yeah,

561
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: that's good. That's good. That's good. Before we get to Kayley, though,

562
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: real quick honorable mention, Michael pop Posey wrote in a

563
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: poem and I figured I'd read it. It's not Phil,

564
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: and I decide it is not good enough to be

565
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: a not so Sharp moment winner, but I should read

566
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: it anyway. Yeah, we we appreciate the creativity. It's a

567
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: winner in our hearts, but it's not in our minds.

568
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: So here we go. Here we go, covered in camel

569
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: with fresh Joe and my mug. The boats starts to sink.

570
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 1: We forgot the plug. Half hour later, at the cold

571
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: break of dawn, ducks came in. But my safety is on.

572
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: Fix all of this and go take a p I

573
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: forgot to pull the waiters all the weight to my knee.

574
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: Frustrated and cold, I head back to the truck. A

575
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: bad day of hunting is still fun as fuck. Bravo

576
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: the end. Bravo rhyming the word truck with the word

577
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 1: funk litted on a greeting card. That's always always good. Now,

578
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: thank you Michael for writing in. If you guys wanna

579
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: try to match his poetic genius there, please do. I

580
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: like reading reading poems, I like rhymes. I'm a simple man,

581
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: So right him in. But honorable mention goes to Michael Posey.

582
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: But now, Kaylee Howard, the winner of a brand new work,

583
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: sharp Field, Sharpener, And here's the beginning of the story.

584
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: She says, Listen, boys, I know that subjects in this

585
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: story might be a little uncomfortable for your main audience.

586
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: But I am a female outdoorsman, and by golly, there

587
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: isn't enough literature or coverage of female hunters. But I

588
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: follow the media your company with a passion because you

589
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: all try your very very best to include women of

590
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: all backgrounds and professions, and for that, I think and

591
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: congratulate you all. That being said, in a roundabout way,

592
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: I feel obligated to share this story so your female

593
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: followers can laugh themselves into rib cramps. I'm excited. I

594
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: have not heard this all right, enjoy it my not

595
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: your sharp moment, and try not and try to think

596
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: how funny this would be even this happened to your wives.

597
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: For the men out there, I grew up on a

598
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: farm and ranch in the Panhandle of Texas. Imagine a

599
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: girl with no siblings and a father who likes to hunt.

600
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: Think of a girl whose favorite pastime was to get

601
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: out of sports practice, drive home, grab her youth addition

602
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: twent engage Minnelli and see what she could get into. Well.

603
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: This particular story starts on a Wednesday, September one, to

604
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: be exact, Texas is opening day of dove season, the

605
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: first bird season of the year. I was about it,

606
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: enthralled as a girl can get. Because my dad ran cattle,

607
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: we naturally had barbedier fences all over the ranch. I

608
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: had noticed that the dove naturally, that the dove on

609
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: the ranch naturally congregated on the fence where this seed

610
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: milo was I was going to It was gonna be

611
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: easy pickings. I played volleyball at the time, so when

612
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: my coach left out practice, I didn't even change my clothes.

613
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: I e volleyball spandex of sports brawl and a workout

614
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: tank top. I ran home, grabbed my cowboy boots, a

615
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: box of shells, and my shotgun. The field was only

616
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: a quarter of a mile from the house, so I

617
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: decided to just walk it. Now, Phil, can you picture

618
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: what we're doing here. We're walking through a field. We

619
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: got spandex on on the way to a fence. On

620
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: the way to a fence, you see where this might

621
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: be going shooting fish in a barrel barbedire fence. So

622
00:33:54,560 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: you're scratch that. I sprinted to the fence line. Earlier

623
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: that day, I had a morning workout consisted of of

624
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: my max of squats and dead lips. So, needless to say,

625
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: my legs were worn out. To start with a little

626
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: humble brag, I like it. When I got to the

627
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: fence line, I thought to myself, I'm an athlete. I'm

628
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: just gonna climb that fence without sending my gun down

629
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: or holding onto a post. Yeah. M well, that was

630
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: all fine until I fell while swinging my second leg

631
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 1: over and my legs strength gave out. I had tried

632
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: to jump and the wire had slipped out from under

633
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: my boot. I lifted my gun above my head and

634
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 1: spun in mid air to save the shotgun from the

635
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 1: barbed wire below my chest head made contact with the wires.

636
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: I spun. No, you all know how Stephen Rinella loves

637
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: a good nipple ripping story? Was that where this is going?

638
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: When I landed, I was on my back on the ground.

639
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: I inspected my shotgun into my relief, didn't have a

640
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: scratch on it. Then I realized just tied warm liquid

641
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 1: running down my stomach. I looked down and saw that

642
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: the barbed wire had caught me and sliced into my

643
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 1: tank top brawl and smack dab through the middle of

644
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: my boob. My cut was about a half a centimeter deep,

645
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: running about three inches long I fainted. It hit the

646
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: ground like a ton of bricks. When I came to

647
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: my senses, I laid on the ground and cried like

648
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: a wounded animal for god knows how long. A teenage

649
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,720
Speaker 1: girl is quite sensitive as subjects such as these. After

650
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 1: what was probably an unacceptable amount of time, I slowly

651
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,240
Speaker 1: made my way back to the house. In my haste

652
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: to get to the field, I left my cell phone

653
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: and couldn't contact anyone to come and save me. When

654
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: I got back to the house, I found my mother

655
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 1: cooking dinner, and mid sentence, she broke off with a

656
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: scream of terror. That was fast, Kaylee, did you already

657
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 1: run out of Oh? That sounds written. I will never

658
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: forget that scream. She called my dad and explained basically

659
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 1: that I was going to be un it for marriage

660
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: and and that she was taking me to the only

661
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: hospital in the county. I begged her to take me

662
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 1: anywhere besides the medical facility that I knew everyone where

663
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: I knew everyone, but she insisted that I had lost

664
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: blood and there was no time to waste. When we

665
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,720
Speaker 1: arrived in the air in my hometown, I was draped

666
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 1: in a towel and stood horrified as my mother explained

667
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 1: the predicament to the receptionist, nurses and the doctrine called

668
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: that night, which, to my sheer delight, just so happened

669
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 1: to be my best friend's dad. He he had me

670
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: take off my ripped clothing, he cleaned the wound, and

671
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: stitched my poor maimed breast back together. I don't think

672
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: I will ever be as embarrassed again in my entire life.

673
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 1: The next day I had to explain to my coach

674
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: while I couldn't practice. Slowly, ever so slowly, the story

675
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 1: of little girl Hunter who defiled her body spread around

676
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: my town. At any m I had a teacher asked

677
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 1: if I was in too much pain, I need to

678
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: go home. I had the ass of my school asked

679
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 1: if I was going to enter the rifle competition in

680
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: the Paraplegic Olympics. It was a joyous day. Let's fast

681
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 1: forward to tonight, when my now husband and I decided

682
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,959
Speaker 1: to get frisky for the first time. Phil, all right,

683
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,320
Speaker 1: you've into it. Yeah, this is the whole reason I

684
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: came onto this podcasts for stories like these. You know

685
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: this is getting all right, let's let's get hot. I

686
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: was terrified for him to see the carnage that was

687
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 1: under my clothes with careful inspection and grace in his voice.

688
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,399
Speaker 1: He said, I will call that one scarface. M hmm.

689
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: That's when I read better than skimpemic weeks week boob. Sorry,

690
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: that's when I knew I would marry that man. I've

691
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: never hand a dove again, and I don't think I

692
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 1: ever will. But my shotgun is still in mint condition.

693
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: That's what matters. The end. Great job play the jingle

694
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: not so sharp moment? You don't do, boy, Phil, it's

695
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 1: not good? Whoa You know? The funny thing about these

696
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: work sharp not so sharp moments is that most of

697
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 1: them are actually turned out to be I have some

698
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: sharp elements. Yeah, this one did. Yes, it did a

699
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,800
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of interesting visuals throughout that tale.

700
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: So thank you, Kayley. Work Sharp is probably gonna send

701
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: to you a brand new work sharp field sharpener, So

702
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: enjoy that and keep sending in You're not so sharp moments.

703
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: This one is so far my favorite. It's gonna be

704
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: hard to top it, but th HC at the mediaor

705
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 1: dot com you send your own, you can top Kaylee

706
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: could win. All right, here we go. We got Clay

707
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: nucom and we're gonna talk about bears and baiting. You know,

708
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: we didn't really drink much whiskey, but we'll call it

709
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: whiskey and ethics because I like the name, right, Phil,

710
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 1: and do what I want. It's good. You know, you

711
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: could have it was nine am. It was you could

712
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 1: have had, you could have imbibed, and I had a

713
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 1: little beer like yeah, I call yeah, yeah, but I

714
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: had responsible Yes, it was responsible bear baiting, baiting in general.

715
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 1: With a pretty interesting fellow, Clay knwcom coming up right now. Enjoy.

716
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 1: I guess I grew up on an all the road Clay. Hello, Ben,

717
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: you were just telling me that you every time recently,

718
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,359
Speaker 1: every time that you have I had a thought about bears,

719
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: you wrote it down on your phone. That's right, And

720
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: I'm looking at that list right now. So long. That's

721
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 1: a that's a long list, man. Yeah, no, just as

722
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 1: we as we were going to talk about the topic

723
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: at hand. Yes, just the last ten days or so,

724
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:54,760
Speaker 1: I've been formalizing some thoughts like that. It's all things

725
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: that are not new to me. But sometimes when you

726
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: write it down as a writer, when you write something

727
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: it it formulates itself and comes sharper and more clear.

728
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 1: It's the best way to codify something I find and

729
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: the things that I know the most about and actually

730
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 1: learned and can repeat our thing articles I've written, you know,

731
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: because you spend all this time craft in these words

732
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: and then you remember them and so oft Oftentimes somebody's like,

733
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: we'll tell me about this, I'll know the most about

734
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: a subject. You go, well, let me get my phone,

735
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: let me get part I'll read you my article. Well

736
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 1: that we're gonna talk about bears for sure, because you know,

737
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 1: you listen to some we were just talking about you

738
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: listen to the Barry Gilbert episode, so you know that

739
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: this is You're probably gonna threaten to leave pretty soon.

740
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 1: I don't have anything to slam. Yeah, what, Well, we

741
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 1: can give you a book if you want to throw

742
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: it at me about halfway through. But we're also I

743
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: want to talk about baiting. I think that's a there's

744
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: a larger topic in baiting, but I think baiting in

745
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:53,240
Speaker 1: in general A lot of times in many many states

746
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: baiting is illegal for for white tails and other other animals. Um,

747
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: but bear baiting has a culture going back to nineteenth

748
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,359
Speaker 1: century UM, And so I think that's the best. If

749
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,439
Speaker 1: you're gonna talk about the ethical connotations of baiting, it's

750
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: it would be it's proper to do it around bears,

751
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,399
Speaker 1: just for the many reasons that if you're gonna pick,

752
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 1: just like we did a whiskey ethics on gripping grans,

753
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: you're gonna pick kind of the most topical and maybe

754
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,359
Speaker 1: controversial piece of the puzzle when it comes to these uh,

755
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: these issues. And so that's why I think bear baiting

756
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: kind of lands in a good in a good spot

757
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 1: in that regardless it's a it's it definitely would be.

758
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 1: It's the it's the easiest thing to misunderstand really in hunting. Yeah,

759
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: it really is. You know, I was doing a little

760
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 1: bit of my own research yesterday looking at this now,

761
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: and if you go to bear baiting on Wikipedia, which

762
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 1: if you google bearbaiting, that's the first thing that comes up.

763
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: The line that describes it is this bear baiting is

764
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: a blood sport involving the worrying or tour mating in

765
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: in quotation marks baiting of bears, and may involve pitting

766
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:04,280
Speaker 1: a bear against another animal. That's what bear baiting wow

767
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:08,919
Speaker 1: refers to. Now, I think I don't even I can't

768
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 1: even understand. I don't even have a place to understand

769
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: what they're talking about. Yeah, and this is there's a

770
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: historical context to that. But still for the layman, bear

771
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: baiting in the modern sense is not the nineteenth century

772
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,760
Speaker 1: or even in this case, seventeenth century version of bear baiting.

773
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 1: So even in historical context, it's a little bit confused.

774
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,839
Speaker 1: It's a little bit confused. So can you just give

775
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: give folks your your history, I mean, what you do

776
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 1: now and you're a little bit of your history with

777
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: with bear hunting in particular. Well, so what I do

778
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 1: for a living then, as I published Bear Hunting magazine,

779
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: So Barony Magazine has been in print for twenty years

780
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 1: and I've I have run Bear Hunting Magazine for the

781
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: last seven years and so, but that didn't spend from

782
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 1: a place of uh, just a it's not just a vocation.

783
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,760
Speaker 1: I mean I have been bear hunting a long time

784
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 1: and a passionate about bear hunting and and it's a

785
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 1: massively misunderstood part of the hunting the hunting space, it

786
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 1: truly is. And uh, and I have some thoughts as

787
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: we as we go on, I don't want to dive

788
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 1: into the depth of my notes here right off the bat,

789
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 1: but give us your give us the notes. But you know,

790
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 1: I think in some ways hunters have have given in.

791
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 1: There's been like a shifting baseline for us to kind

792
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: of give in to some of the emotional propaganda surrounding hunting,

793
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 1: charismatic charismatic megafauna. You know these bears and uh and so, Yeah,

794
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: is that a good description benefits history? I mean, it

795
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: wasn't that great. Yeah, that's a good description. And I

796
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 1: think that you were on the Mediator podcast recently and

797
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: you did a really good job of kind of articulating

798
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: some of these perspectives. And and folks have listened to

799
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: this have heard me talk about fair chase and ethics

800
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: a lot, and I think it I think it bears

801
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: repeating that. You know, the Boode and Crockett has a

802
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: fair chase ethics statement on baiting, which they updated recently

803
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 1: um to be a little bit more accepting of the practice.

804
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: And it's one of the more when you think about it,

805
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 1: it's one, to me, the one of the more conflicting

806
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: issues within our space, because there are legitimate consequences of

807
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: the unnatural collection of animals, but there's also ethical like

808
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 1: advantages to collecting those animals so you can judge them

809
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 1: and be closer to them and more ethical. And so

810
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: when I describe this, I'm always much like other issues

811
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 1: or just kind of have to be flat honest. My

812
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 1: my opinion is always that I would say that it's

813
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: conflicting for me. When I think of my own personal ethics,

814
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: I think of baiting as a tool to be a

815
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: more ethical hunter. When I think of like the culture

816
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: and the way it's looked at, I think, I'm not

817
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 1: sure overall if this is something that we can carry

818
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 1: into the future. But that's I would just be honest

819
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: in saying that it's it's a confliction within me. You know.

820
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 1: Here's here's the baseline position that I start on when

821
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: we talk about baiting. Baiting is a management tool for

822
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: wildlife managers who have the best interests of wildlife, who

823
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: have the best entrances of bears, who want bear populations

824
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:33,240
Speaker 1: to thrive and coexist with massive human populations and massive

825
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 1: human intrusion in these places that were formerly wild bear habitat.

826
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 1: So baiting is a management tool for managers to be

827
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 1: able to extract like a surgeon extracting something out of

828
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: a human body. I mean they they there's a measured

829
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,399
Speaker 1: amount that these people need to take out. And then

830
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 1: in let's just say, eighty percent of North America spotting

831
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:04,399
Speaker 1: stock or or bear hunting without the use of any

832
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: hounds rebait just would not be able to achieve those

833
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 1: management goals. To me, that's the that's the biggest point

834
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: that people need to understand. So because I think people

835
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 1: tend to think that where baiting is legal, it's like

836
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 1: the game and fish agencies are just like, hey, let's

837
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: give these old fat guys an easy way to shoot

838
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: a bear. Yeah, that's not it at all. Like in Arkansas,

839
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: like I did a I Myron Means, the bear coordinator

840
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: for Arkansas, talk to him just a few weeks ago,

841
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: and um, you know, they made a decision in two

842
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:41,720
Speaker 1: thousand and one that the way they wanted to manage

843
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: bears in Arkansas was overbait and with the use of

844
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: bow hunters in the early season. That was a strategic

845
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 1: decision that they made. And so uh and and to

846
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 1: to to quantify or to qualify the statement about eight

847
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: percent of North America spotting stock hunting couldn't achieve those goals,

848
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 1: is that you much of North American continent is the

849
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: eastern decisious forest, in the boreal forest, which is thick,

850
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 1: thick vegetation um and so those places, I mean, if

851
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 1: you're going to harvest bears through hunting, then bait is

852
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 1: a is a very good way to do it. And

853
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 1: like in Arkansas, we can't bait on public land. We

854
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 1: can only bait on private land. So private land is

855
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 1: where bear conflict happens. That's where people are having trouble.

856
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 1: So they're like, hey, let's give these private landowners a

857
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:38,359
Speaker 1: way to manage these bears. And so that's the way

858
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: we roll now out here. You can in many places

859
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 1: you can you can bait on public land, and it's

860
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: kind of a different ordeal. So to me, that's the baseline.

861
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 1: Like if if anybody wants to have a conversation about

862
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 1: the ethics of bear hunting, to me, that's where it starts,

863
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,399
Speaker 1: is that this is a management tool. This is not

864
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 1: just a slob hunter's way to hunt. And and I've

865
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 1: never heard anybody that has actually baited bears themselves. I'm

866
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 1: not talking about going on an outfitted hunt, which I

867
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: got no problem with that and do it myself, but

868
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: I've never heard anybody that has baited bears themselves put

869
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 1: in the work, the strategy, understood it, studied it, ever

870
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 1: come away thinking, Man, that was easy. Man, that was

871
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 1: that was kind of just put the corner out, they

872
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: come walking right in. Yeah, it's it's much more in

873
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 1: depth than that, And especially if your own personal ethics

874
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 1: are at a level where you're you know, you're well,

875
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 1: I find ways to limit myself in uh, in other

876
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 1: ways when I hunt over bait. I really do. Yeah,

877
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: it's part of the reason I used traditional archery when

878
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 1: I hunt over bait. I was gonna say exactly that.

879
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 1: I mean, in my and and not this wouldn't be

880
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 1: for anybody. I could I shoot him with a gun

881
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: over bait, But for me that's why, I mean, it's

882
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,919
Speaker 1: kind of like a give and take. It's like, yeah,

883
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: and it's interesting to see like that. I was just

884
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: reading as you're talking a little bit of the position

885
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: that the Boone and Crocket came out with recently. That

886
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 1: was was an update of their fare Chase position, and

887
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 1: they said baiting can increase hunter success by helping them

888
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 1: to locate game, especially nocturnal species and game that inhabits

889
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:22,760
Speaker 1: a continuous, dense understory that makes successful harvest numbers difficult

890
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 1: to achieve. Baiting allows a hunter to be more selective,

891
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 1: as it permits them to conduct the closer inspection of

892
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:31,760
Speaker 1: an animal to determine its age and sex prior to harvest.

893
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,879
Speaker 1: This is particularly important when it is discouraged or legal

894
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 1: to take young animals or females with young of a

895
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: species such as black or grizzly bear, where the sex

896
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: and age is not as easily discernible as with other species.

897
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 1: It's a pretty cogent and well thought out way to

898
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 1: look at that. The advantage is here. And when we

899
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 1: look at this, there's sometimes, like you said, we get

900
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 1: in the trap of something doesn't feel right. You know,

901
00:49:58,080 --> 00:49:59,760
Speaker 1: if I would, if I was to play Devil's advocate,

902
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 1: I think lot of hunters would say, like, what doesn't

903
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 1: feel right? Yeah, well funck that like that. At the

904
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: end of the day, we have to be we very

905
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 1: much have to be pragmatic in the way we view

906
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 1: these things. It might not feel right for you, that's okay,

907
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 1: then don't do it. But as a practice of management,

908
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 1: as a tool for wildlife managers, is very hard to

909
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,760
Speaker 1: to look at the facts with baiting in certain situations

910
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 1: to say it's no good. I mean, it just isn't

911
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,359
Speaker 1: for me. Well, the other thing is that you are

912
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: what a big argument is people say that it's unnatural,

913
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:38,319
Speaker 1: like you're you're altering this animals habits, you're doing, You're

914
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: you're you're in putting some resource that's making him do

915
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: something different than he would do if you hadn't done it. Well,

916
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: I see that, but it's not entirely true. Because a

917
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:53,800
Speaker 1: black bear in Arkansas, he utilizes a wide oak ridge

918
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 1: the exact same way that he utilizes de bait site.

919
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:01,879
Speaker 1: He is designed to gather twelve months worth of groceries

920
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:05,440
Speaker 1: in eight months. He so, I mean, he is designed

921
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 1: to eat. He's got a huge gut, he's got a

922
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 1: huge mouth, he's got big tea. I mean, like everything

923
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 1: about him is designed to to input resource. And uh

924
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: so when you put out bait, you're you're capitalizing on

925
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:22,240
Speaker 1: something that he's already doing, which is utilizing the resource

926
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 1: until it's gone, you know. And so you know, and

927
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 1: Ronnella said that as well. You know, he talked about

928
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 1: you know, like if there's a whale on you know,

929
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,360
Speaker 1: washed up on the beach in Alaska and you shoot

930
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 1: a brown bear over that whale, you know, you know,

931
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 1: is that is that natural? You know, You're you're capitalizing

932
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 1: up on something that that bear is already doing. And uh,

933
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,800
Speaker 1: just a that's that's just a well, you know a

934
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of states, a lot of states

935
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 1: are against baiting. And I was reading about in the

936
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 1: Alabama's Wildlife thing and what they were kind of questions

937
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:58,839
Speaker 1: about baiting, and they said, well why do they not?

938
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 1: Why are they against baiting but not supplemental feeding. When

939
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:05,280
Speaker 1: I started reading this, I'm like, wow, Okay. Baiting significantly

940
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 1: elevates the chance of disease transmission in two ways compared

941
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: to deer feeding and food plots. And this is specifically

942
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,359
Speaker 1: for deering. Baiting causes deer to feed in a very

943
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 1: small area where they are and frequent and direct contact

944
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:20,359
Speaker 1: with each other. Even when deer do not feed nose

945
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,399
Speaker 1: to nose at bay piles or stations, Baiting causes them

946
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,479
Speaker 1: to feed in virtually the exact same place or deer

947
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:30,399
Speaker 1: have fed previously. Um. And then another thing I think

948
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 1: that matters that within the bear baiting or a question

949
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 1: for you is you see deer coming to to bear

950
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: bait sites very very rarely. I mean you'd get the

951
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 1: odd picture of a deer just passing through, but not

952
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: at all. I mean, you're not knowing any food there

953
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 1: that they're interested and you're you know, there's so much. Yeah,

954
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 1: maybe somebody would be baiting with corn or something that

955
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: deer might be interested in, but there's so much other

956
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 1: foreign smell there that I mean, I've never had a

957
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 1: deer walk up. And you know, talking about the conversation

958
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: between baiting and bear and baiting deer, I mean, there

959
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: could be some commonality if we were just talking about

960
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 1: the overarching topic of baiting, but really they're very different.

961
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, there are concerns now with congregating

962
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 1: deer um also habitat concerns with baiting deer year round

963
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 1: in them, you know, hammering down on the on the

964
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 1: native plant species that are most palatable to them. So

965
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you have a spot that you're

966
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:31,040
Speaker 1: baiting for ten years, and which people do for sure,

967
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 1: you know, like man, in two years, everywhere within a

968
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 1: quarter mile of that spot, all the good stuff is

969
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:41,360
Speaker 1: gonna the natural brows is gonna be depleted. The stuff

970
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: they don't want to eat is going to increase. You

971
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,319
Speaker 1: quit baiting, then all of a sudden, you've got this.

972
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 1: You know, you've got habitat that's not great for it.

973
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's other concerns and stuff that which

974
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 1: don't really play over inside a bear. Bear baiting is

975
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 1: typically a very short lived thing. Like in Arkansas we

976
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:00,879
Speaker 1: can bait for thirty days before season. Most people are

977
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 1: baiting for a very short time, you know. So it's

978
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 1: not like this animal is becoming dependent upon this or

979
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: it's changing them that dramatically. Yeah, And I think that's

980
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 1: a it's a good thing to think of. And and

981
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: a lot of state game departments will well. And while

982
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 1: the fans will talk about supplemental feeding, you know, for

983
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 1: an ungle, it like a deer versus and that supplemental

984
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: feeding could be a food plot. It could be somehow

985
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 1: you've changed the landscape to add more food for that animal. Right,

986
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 1: so you've mostly what they'll say is a food plot, right,

987
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 1: A food plot is in quote unquote in their in

988
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 1: their minds, supplemental feeding. I don't know that when we're

989
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:39,720
Speaker 1: managing wildlife, we can be so finite like supplemental feeding.

990
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 1: You're changing and both of these instances, whether you're putting

991
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,840
Speaker 1: out you know, grain or or syrup or doughnuts or

992
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 1: whatever for bears, or you're putting out a polycorn for deer,

993
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 1: or you're planning soybeans, or you're planning some sort of

994
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 1: seasonal food plot for deer. You're changing the landscape in

995
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,080
Speaker 1: such a way that is going to change every everything

996
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 1: that a deer does. Really, you're manipulating the landscape to

997
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:09,760
Speaker 1: manipulate the animal. And it would it be that baiting

998
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 1: them is just a lazier way to do it. Maybe

999
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 1: if if you're if you're switching it to deer, but

1000
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:21,839
Speaker 1: it it's certainly beyond the deer disease transmission argument. Things

1001
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:25,399
Speaker 1: just start to fall apart with baiting, especially with bears. Man,

1002
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 1: And so do you have you thought about like when

1003
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 1: you bring your kids up doing this, like you explain

1004
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:32,719
Speaker 1: this to them, how do you talk to them about? Man?

1005
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:36,880
Speaker 1: I talked very candidly and openly with my kids about

1006
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 1: why we bait because I kind of live in two

1007
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 1: different worlds because I love to bait bear. I mean,

1008
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 1: to me, it's it's the way to well let me

1009
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:49,839
Speaker 1: let me even back up. I'm gonna get to my kids.

1010
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 1: The When I was growing up, we hunted public land

1011
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 1: for white tails, and we were constantly looking for that

1012
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 1: hot spot, which for us was a wide oak acorn

1013
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 1: treat rain and acorns with deer coming into it. You

1014
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 1: use this this hot spot. I mean, you know, like

1015
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 1: five times when I was a kid, my dad would

1016
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 1: have I mean very rarely would we really find what

1017
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 1: we were looking for, and it was a hot spot.

1018
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 1: When we started baiting bear when I was younger, it

1019
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 1: was like, man, we're making our own hot spot, which

1020
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: you know, I mean plays into the ethics thing maybe,

1021
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 1: but that's why it became so exciting and fun. So

1022
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 1: I I love to bait bears because you are creating

1023
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 1: an opportunity. You are I'm I'm talking about how I

1024
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 1: live in two different worlds. I live in that world,

1025
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 1: but I also love and probably my favorite type of

1026
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 1: hunting is what I call slip hunting or spot and

1027
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 1: stock hunting. I mean, just bear hunting in national forests

1028
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 1: without the use of baitter hounds. I call it the

1029
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 1: sheep hunt of the South in Arkansas. It's the toughest

1030
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 1: hunt that I know of, for real, in terms of

1031
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 1: actual success. You turn a hundred hunters loose in Arkansas

1032
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:01,359
Speaker 1: and say, how many of you are gonna be able

1033
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 1: to kill a bear with a bow? Just go go

1034
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 1: hunt them. You know, very low odds of success versus

1035
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 1: really almost any hunt in North America. I mean, so

1036
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 1: it's a it's a tough hunt. I love that hunt.

1037
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 1: So my kids have grown up with this. You know,

1038
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 1: these two things that I do that I've been very

1039
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:26,720
Speaker 1: clear with them about one of my sons, my older son,

1040
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 1: he's he'll be fourteen. We made a decision four years

1041
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 1: ago when his siblings were killing bear over bait. I

1042
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 1: drew him aside and I said, tell you what, how

1043
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 1: about you not hunt over bait, and how about you

1044
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 1: set a goal that in the next eight years you'll

1045
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:48,200
Speaker 1: kill a bear in national forest just hunting with me

1046
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 1: like I do. And I mean, his eyes lit up

1047
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 1: and it was like he he got it because he

1048
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 1: knew that it was harder, it was more difficult, and

1049
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: in our family add more value to a hunt that

1050
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 1: is is like that. At the same time we celebrate

1051
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 1: hunting bear over bait. We just my daughter killed a big,

1052
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:15,919
Speaker 1: a very nice bear, uh just uh, three or four

1053
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 1: weeks ago after passing eleven bears that most grown men

1054
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,520
Speaker 1: would have shot. I mean, I'm telling you that she

1055
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 1: passed eleven bears over two years. And uh and and

1056
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 1: I limited, you know, she limited herself. I was like,

1057
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 1: if we're gonna hunt over bait, we're gonna we're gonna

1058
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 1: wait for the right bear, you know. And so they

1059
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 1: get it. They get these nuanced things that we do.

1060
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: And I don't know if that answers your question, but

1061
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 1: but they know it's not like we're just it does.

1062
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 1: It does. And I think it's that there's very important

1063
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:48,560
Speaker 1: respective in that because I've had a lot of hunters

1064
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 1: in here, a lot of people um with perspective that

1065
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:55,200
Speaker 1: are outside both our country and our model of conservation.

1066
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 1: You know, that can talk about in other cultures historically,

1067
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 1: and then you know European cultures and hunters are revered

1068
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 1: because of their selectivity. They're revered because they have to

1069
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 1: have knowledge of the outdoors. They have to have knowledge

1070
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 1: of the natural world. If the knowledge of the game

1071
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 1: that they're pursuing, if they don't have that knowledge, they

1072
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 1: couldn't accurately select the proper animal to remove. You know,

1073
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 1: it's the it's a natural resource, right, It's it's this

1074
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 1: is what we're doing. And so when you're talking about that,

1075
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 1: that brings true to me that your kids are learning

1076
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:30,480
Speaker 1: about the animal, They're learning about where it lives, what

1077
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 1: it does, how to be selective around the taking of one,

1078
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 1: is it a male or female? How old is it?

1079
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 1: Why does it have to be old as opposed to young?

1080
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 1: All those things I think are paramount to to what

1081
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:46,440
Speaker 1: hunting is at a core level of conservation, because you

1082
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 1: can't really be part of conservation if you're not understanding

1083
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,400
Speaker 1: the removal of you know, one animal or another. And

1084
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 1: so when you talk about that, it strikes to me

1085
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 1: very similar to We had a guy do shuns tona

1086
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 1: in here I've said there's probably a lot, but he

1087
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 1: talked about he grew up in Checklist Faki, and he

1088
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 1: talked about the hunter being so revered for their knowledge

1089
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 1: of the natural world and what could see the So

1090
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 1: the situation with my daughter, she's sixteen now, and she

1091
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 1: killed bear overbait when she was thirteen, and then we

1092
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 1: hunted two years in a very difficult location where we

1093
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,200
Speaker 1: had to pack in bait on our mules and do

1094
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff that was just difficult, and she

1095
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 1: saw more she had more. If I could use the

1096
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 1: word intimate interaction with bear, then most people will have

1097
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 1: in a lifetime. She really did. I mean we watched

1098
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 1: bears for eight hours a day. I mean, this place

1099
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 1: where we were hunting was it was, it was great.

1100
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 1: We we watched bear interactions, we watched sALS with cubs,

1101
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:55,040
Speaker 1: we saw older age class boars. And that experience that

1102
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 1: she had there over bait, it's something that you would

1103
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:03,280
Speaker 1: never have gotten in decades of hunting in the National forest.

1104
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 1: And so the experience that she got, and she was

1105
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 1: highly selective took an older age mail that she eventually took,

1106
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 1: you know, it was it was a win for conservation,

1107
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 1: it was a win for us. And the amount of

1108
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 1: you know, she had to exercise a lot of restraint

1109
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 1: inside of that, which is I think a good character discipline.

1110
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:28,800
Speaker 1: And uh. Likewise, my other son, who honestly I chose

1111
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:32,600
Speaker 1: him to give this proposition to him because I saw

1112
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 1: in him a real burning fire for what I perceived

1113
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 1: to be. You know, it's like, yeah, he's got he

1114
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:44,800
Speaker 1: doesn't need to be gratified too quick and um anyway,

1115
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:47,439
Speaker 1: he so he has not killed a bear, even though

1116
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 1: his both the siblings have and um, so you know,

1117
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:55,280
Speaker 1: there's there's different ways to regulate these things in terms

1118
01:01:55,360 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 1: of limiting yourself. Man, I started to realize that these

1119
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 1: things that that on it on their faces don't seem

1120
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:05,560
Speaker 1: you know, we're fair. We always use the term fair

1121
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 1: in terms of hunting. I don't. I'm growing to to

1122
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 1: not like using the term fair, especially fair chase. I

1123
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 1: feel like it just just doesn't quite have the right connotation.

1124
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 1: What I'm learning is all these things are kind of

1125
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:21,360
Speaker 1: in the hands of the particular hunter. Like baiting in

1126
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 1: your hands, hands of somebody who used thoughtful, ethical, knowledgeable

1127
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 1: about about where you're living and what you're doing. In

1128
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:33,720
Speaker 1: your hands, baiting is like a wonderful tool to not

1129
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:37,600
Speaker 1: only teach, but to manage populations and to better understand

1130
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 1: the animal that dies at the end of the day.

1131
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:44,200
Speaker 1: In the hands of a lazy asshole, baiting might be

1132
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:45,800
Speaker 1: just a way to dump a bunch of corn on

1133
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 1: the ground and shoot that bluck that you haven't been

1134
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 1: able to get after. So it's it's an interesting all

1135
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:53,919
Speaker 1: of these things, especially when it comes as a fair chase,

1136
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:56,440
Speaker 1: and you can see it in Buona Crocckett's recent position

1137
01:02:56,680 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 1: came out in August that I was just reading from.

1138
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 1: It's kind of like they're just they go back and forth,

1139
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 1: so you know, they talk about it. All of this

1140
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:06,440
Speaker 1: kind of depends on how you were raised and what

1141
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:09,320
Speaker 1: tradition in which you were raised, and how you view

1142
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 1: this this uh ridiculously variable thing that we do call

1143
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 1: it hunting. The other thing I was thinking of the

1144
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 1: last time we did uh an ethical conversational Whiskey ethics,

1145
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 1: we talked about gripping grins, and I said, I was

1146
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:25,760
Speaker 1: telling Steve right now that I and Miles Nulte that

1147
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:28,880
Speaker 1: I feel like, for me, I'm just gonna like take

1148
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:33,920
Speaker 1: gripping greens and put him aside, like not do them.

1149
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 1: I'm willing to give that up because I know that

1150
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 1: there's been instances where it's it's not been the greatest

1151
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:41,640
Speaker 1: for hunting. Now, I could probably say the same thing

1152
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 1: about baiting, and I could probably also say the same

1153
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:49,720
Speaker 1: thing about other ethical you know, hounds for example, I

1154
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 1: could say, oh, well, hounds people don't like it, so

1155
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 1: we're not gonna do it. Baiting people don't like it,

1156
01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:57,200
Speaker 1: so we're not gonna do it. Um And I see

1157
01:03:57,320 --> 01:03:59,640
Speaker 1: that whole sliding scale argument when it comes to those

1158
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 1: kind of limiting points of view, which mine was for

1159
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:07,160
Speaker 1: gripping kings. But when I look at this, I say, like,

1160
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:09,880
Speaker 1: we have to be able to separate all that stuff

1161
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:12,920
Speaker 1: and say like bear baiting in the hands of a

1162
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:16,960
Speaker 1: really good practitioner is a is a really good thing,

1163
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 1: you know, And that's that's just being pragmatic, you know.

1164
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 1: I think the I think the issue is even bigger

1165
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 1: than that, though, ben So, I think a lot of

1166
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:31,560
Speaker 1: people would just say, hey, why don't we just not bait?

1167
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of like, you know, you got

1168
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:36,880
Speaker 1: your family circle, and then there's those cousins that are

1169
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:40,080
Speaker 1: just like kind of a little bit on the outside

1170
01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:41,480
Speaker 1: of the circle, and it's like, how about we just

1171
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 1: not invite them to the party given us a bad name.

1172
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:48,440
Speaker 1: It's not that simple. It's it's really not that simple,

1173
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:54,200
Speaker 1: because only in the last fifty years has have humans

1174
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:59,560
Speaker 1: decided that using hounds was unethical. I was reading last night.

1175
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:04,160
Speaker 1: They believe the first dogs were domesticated fifteen thousand years ago,

1176
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:08,800
Speaker 1: pretty much one for the use of hunting and protection.

1177
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 1: And I mean, and dogs have even evolved to be

1178
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:16,440
Speaker 1: this animal that has the most emotional connection to humans

1179
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:20,240
Speaker 1: of any other animal because of you know, the dogs

1180
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:24,160
Speaker 1: that were connected to their master were more likely to

1181
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 1: be fed and more likely to be bread. And I

1182
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:30,200
Speaker 1: mean so like part of being a modern human is

1183
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:32,320
Speaker 1: to have a connection with a with a with a

1184
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:35,640
Speaker 1: dog really is. And and for people all of a

1185
01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:38,400
Speaker 1: sudden to say, hey, what you've been doing for the

1186
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:42,920
Speaker 1: last fifteen thousand years that has built mankind, you shouldn't

1187
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:45,720
Speaker 1: do that anymore because it's bad. It's really pretty bizarre

1188
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:48,600
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. And we can talk about hounds.

1189
01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:52,200
Speaker 1: I would, I would love to. And so there's this

1190
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:55,640
Speaker 1: shifting baseline, and I think there's there's a place where

1191
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:59,560
Speaker 1: hunters like I am all for what I see happening

1192
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 1: in the hunting community, where we're becoming better at pr

1193
01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:05,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm there. It's like we have to show

1194
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:10,600
Speaker 1: ourselves as as as thoughtful and as conservationist. But there's

1195
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 1: also this place where we can't be given into the

1196
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:17,960
Speaker 1: trends of modern society that does is not congruent with

1197
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:22,160
Speaker 1: who we are as humans. And so here Ben, this

1198
01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:24,480
Speaker 1: is this is Most of my notes on my phone

1199
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:28,480
Speaker 1: are about this phrase called guard the Gate, which to me,

1200
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 1: so bear hunting is easily the lowest rung on the

1201
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:35,480
Speaker 1: ladder for the anti hunting community or for the non

1202
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:38,200
Speaker 1: anti hunting community, the people that don't know anything that's

1203
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:42,680
Speaker 1: a oh, you're baiting bears, well that you know, they

1204
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 1: don't understand it. Bear hunting is is the lowest rung

1205
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 1: on the ladder. Bear hunting is the gate for the

1206
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:54,600
Speaker 1: anti hunting community to come into our space. So a

1207
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:57,160
Speaker 1: lot of people would say, well, let's just not do that. Well,

1208
01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 1: we know that the and to hunting strategy is incrementalism.

1209
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:06,960
Speaker 1: And if in twenty five years there is no place

1210
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 1: left debit bears in North America and they've outlawed hound hunting,

1211
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:17,200
Speaker 1: they will be after elk hunting with with calls. I mean,

1212
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 1: your kids will will be fighting against guys that say, man,

1213
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 1: they go out in the woods witholk calls. They use

1214
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 1: plastic these tubes and they blow and it sounds just

1215
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:30,960
Speaker 1: like an elk, and the elk come running and they

1216
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:35,200
Speaker 1: kill them barbarians, I mean, like and it's it's hard

1217
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:38,440
Speaker 1: to think like that, but it's true. And so that's

1218
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 1: why to me, for us as a hunting community to

1219
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 1: gather around something that's a little bit uncomfortable, but is

1220
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:49,439
Speaker 1: massively a part of our humanity that we can't give.

1221
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:52,560
Speaker 1: We can't be trendy about this, like, uh, you know,

1222
01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:55,840
Speaker 1: I've got I've got dark framed glasses, I'm wearing a

1223
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:58,360
Speaker 1: cool hat. We can't be trendy though about bear hunting.

1224
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 1: I mean, and I think think you're pent right, and

1225
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:03,680
Speaker 1: I think looking at the history of some of these

1226
01:08:03,680 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 1: things and like what they mean to our culture and

1227
01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 1: kind of like the way things are being peeled back.

1228
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:10,640
Speaker 1: That's where I come off. And Steve and I have

1229
01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:12,840
Speaker 1: talked about this even after we record that gripping your past.

1230
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, gripp and grins aren't an old like

1231
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 1: there there they go back to say, t yeah, they

1232
01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 1: it's this old practice that's been changed so much by

1233
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:29,640
Speaker 1: the modern like the modern technology of social media, that

1234
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:31,880
Speaker 1: it's been changed and moreph to a point where it's

1235
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:33,759
Speaker 1: not what it was and it never will be again.

1236
01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:37,679
Speaker 1: But bear baiting is not that Like bear baiting again,

1237
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 1: I'll go back to in the hands of of of

1238
01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:43,639
Speaker 1: of somebody that values it and uses as a tool

1239
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 1: is a good thing. Right, It's a good thing and

1240
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:49,439
Speaker 1: it can always be that. Right, But if you look

1241
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:52,599
Speaker 1: at the state of California. They are basically you hold

1242
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 1: them up as they're pretty analogous to what folks on

1243
01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:59,120
Speaker 1: the other side might want hunting to be. Eventually, don't

1244
01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:02,960
Speaker 1: hunt predators, can't trap them, they can't run hounds for him,

1245
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:05,680
Speaker 1: You can't bait for him, don't. I mean, they'll be

1246
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:09,040
Speaker 1: after bears before long. There, you effectively shut down bear

1247
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:13,559
Speaker 1: hunting in in most places if you eliminate baiting hounds.

1248
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:16,639
Speaker 1: There's there's really very few places where spotting stock hunting

1249
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:20,360
Speaker 1: can achieve management goals. So I mean, basically, by taking

1250
01:09:20,360 --> 01:09:24,160
Speaker 1: that out, you're taking the knees out of bear hunting. Um,

1251
01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:27,160
Speaker 1: You're just you're you're totally taking the knees out. And

1252
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:29,519
Speaker 1: I think I think these you know, I bring up

1253
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:33,479
Speaker 1: because I think these things are all analogous, they're all

1254
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:36,800
Speaker 1: the they're kind of all in the same thing. As

1255
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:38,960
Speaker 1: you say, guard the gate. You know, there's two ways

1256
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:41,040
Speaker 1: to guard the gate, right, There's one guard the gate

1257
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 1: to to say we're all we're gonna stand up for

1258
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:46,360
Speaker 1: the things we've always done right. And the other way

1259
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:48,519
Speaker 1: to guard the gate would be we're gonna change and

1260
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:52,080
Speaker 1: shift with the culture in appropriate ways. Right, We'll trim

1261
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:55,160
Speaker 1: the fat in our hunting culture. And that's what I think,

1262
01:09:55,479 --> 01:09:58,639
Speaker 1: That's what I'm trying to do is is let's why

1263
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:02,599
Speaker 1: don't we have this very a very strong narrative that's

1264
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:05,400
Speaker 1: on the lips of everybody. And what I see inside

1265
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:08,400
Speaker 1: of people is that even hardcore hunters that are in

1266
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:12,639
Speaker 1: our space and on our side are almost like shamed

1267
01:10:12,680 --> 01:10:15,439
Speaker 1: in some way to talk about you know, like hunting

1268
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:18,040
Speaker 1: a barrel overbait or using hounds. And I mean, especially

1269
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:21,520
Speaker 1: on social media, it's like there's this there's this underlying

1270
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:24,160
Speaker 1: thing like is this okay? And and that's where I

1271
01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:28,840
Speaker 1: feel like we're pandering to a false argument and false propaganda.

1272
01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:31,240
Speaker 1: You know, we're giving into it. And I'm not saying

1273
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:33,000
Speaker 1: we gotta put it in people's face. I'm really not.

1274
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 1: I mean, if you know me, you know that's not

1275
01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:39,280
Speaker 1: what I do. But I feel like the hunting world

1276
01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:43,240
Speaker 1: is giving into it. And I think the baseline is

1277
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:46,200
Speaker 1: shifting and we're moving. We're paralleling it in a lot

1278
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:49,240
Speaker 1: of ways. We're paralleling that shift, like, well, you know

1279
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:51,720
Speaker 1: what baitan bears is kind of you know, it is

1280
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:53,120
Speaker 1: kind of this, or it is kind of that, are

1281
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:55,160
Speaker 1: using hounds, it's kind of this or that, And that's

1282
01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:57,400
Speaker 1: why I like, hopefully there's many people that will listen

1283
01:10:57,400 --> 01:10:59,679
Speaker 1: to this can understand we had I had a Buddy

1284
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:04,360
Speaker 1: Semi article that he wrote recently about is social media

1285
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:09,640
Speaker 1: dividing hunters? Was like the hypothesis of this article, and

1286
01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:12,519
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, no, it's not dividing hunters. Hunters are

1287
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:14,479
Speaker 1: always divided, all is it. All is it doing is

1288
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 1: giving us access to the perspective of people that are

1289
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:20,840
Speaker 1: in different places in our country. Hunting in the South

1290
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:23,760
Speaker 1: was always divided from hunting in the West. Always the

1291
01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:27,559
Speaker 1: cultures are different than people are different, the perspectives are different.

1292
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:31,320
Speaker 1: Social media and this, this new way of connecting each

1293
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:36,120
Speaker 1: other is only amplifying our understanding of those perspectives. That's

1294
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:39,760
Speaker 1: all it's doing. It's not dividing us, right, And so

1295
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:42,360
Speaker 1: when you say when you're talking about kind of moving

1296
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:44,280
Speaker 1: with the baseline, I think it all depends where you are,

1297
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:48,760
Speaker 1: you know. For me, I've been part of this podcast

1298
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:51,160
Speaker 1: and just what I want to do better is understand

1299
01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:55,600
Speaker 1: different perspectives from different areas and be able to have

1300
01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:58,519
Speaker 1: a collective, right, have a collective of perspectives that informs

1301
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:01,479
Speaker 1: what I think rather than I live in Montana where

1302
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:03,080
Speaker 1: I grew up in Maryland, and this is how we

1303
01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:04,719
Speaker 1: do it, and this is the way that it's done,

1304
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:07,120
Speaker 1: and it's only done this way, and if someone else

1305
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:10,120
Speaker 1: does it differently, than they are wrong. That's kind of

1306
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:13,800
Speaker 1: what fair chase has become, rather than are be being

1307
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:15,960
Speaker 1: fair to the animal in a way that's respectful of

1308
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:19,720
Speaker 1: the resource and of the individual. And so when we

1309
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:22,320
Speaker 1: talk about that baseline, we we've really got to understand,

1310
01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:25,840
Speaker 1: like everybody's baseline is different from the beginning, even if

1311
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:28,600
Speaker 1: even if it's an intrinsic baseline, if you eliminate the

1312
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:33,400
Speaker 1: extrinsic cultural, shitty like urban baseline that we have to

1313
01:12:33,439 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 1: always battle against, so it's different, I think. So it's

1314
01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:38,080
Speaker 1: important for you to stay in here and say, in

1315
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:41,880
Speaker 1: in my family, in my community, in the woods where

1316
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:44,640
Speaker 1: I live, this is a thing that is good and

1317
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:49,800
Speaker 1: that is in and of itself, you know. Well, the

1318
01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:54,880
Speaker 1: the thing that that we are heralding is that the

1319
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:57,960
Speaker 1: hunting community, for the betterment of all hunting, for the

1320
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:01,599
Speaker 1: betterment of elk hunting, for the future sustainability of mule

1321
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:06,439
Speaker 1: deer hunting, hunters need to gather around and just just

1322
01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:10,040
Speaker 1: just support, I mean whatever that means to them, support

1323
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:13,800
Speaker 1: all legal methods of hunting in twenty nineteen, I mean,

1324
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:18,559
Speaker 1: really that that's we've got nothing left to give. I mean,

1325
01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 1: society has trimmed and chopped, and here we are in

1326
01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:25,280
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. In modern times. The North American mole of

1327
01:13:25,280 --> 01:13:29,799
Speaker 1: wildlife conservation has been the most successful animal husbandry event

1328
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 1: of humankind. It's working. Wild places are being saved. You know,

1329
01:13:34,240 --> 01:13:38,040
Speaker 1: there's a lot of bad stuff happening too, but for

1330
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:40,439
Speaker 1: the for the sake of that, And I think that's

1331
01:13:40,479 --> 01:13:42,639
Speaker 1: the that's the kind of the thing that I don't

1332
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:45,880
Speaker 1: think people see or understanding, and they wouldn't. But from

1333
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:49,320
Speaker 1: from over here, I'm saying, Hey, even if you're not

1334
01:13:49,360 --> 01:13:52,839
Speaker 1: a bear hunter, even if you don't like hound hunters,

1335
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:55,320
Speaker 1: you probably might know when you don't like well, guess

1336
01:13:55,320 --> 01:13:59,880
Speaker 1: what This world is bigger than your dislike of that thing.

1337
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:02,720
Speaker 1: Look at it from the macro perspective, just like we

1338
01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:04,840
Speaker 1: look at you know, yeah, you kill an individual animal,

1339
01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:09,840
Speaker 1: but your perspective is about the macro, the macro population. Well,

1340
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:14,439
Speaker 1: that's our thing, is that man rally around all legal

1341
01:14:14,479 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 1: methods of hunting in these days. I mean and I'm

1342
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:23,680
Speaker 1: specifically talking about baiting hounds, you know, because effectively if

1343
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:27,800
Speaker 1: they if they get those, then then everything is you know,

1344
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:30,679
Speaker 1: we've we've lost, we've lost, honey. I was thinking about

1345
01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:34,880
Speaker 1: just today we released this video about my daughter yesterday,

1346
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:43,240
Speaker 1: her killing in in Uh. The the thing that's you know,

1347
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:46,599
Speaker 1: if my daughter and her children and her children's children

1348
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:50,040
Speaker 1: would could in fifty years wake up in Arkansas and

1349
01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:52,680
Speaker 1: look at the mountains that I currently hunt and not

1350
01:14:52,880 --> 01:14:56,160
Speaker 1: be able to go hunt those mountains, I think really

1351
01:14:56,200 --> 01:15:01,160
Speaker 1: that would make them something very different from what I am. Like,

1352
01:15:01,240 --> 01:15:04,320
Speaker 1: it really would. I think that's the that's the the

1353
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:08,799
Speaker 1: fear that we have, that fear I have a fear.

1354
01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:11,479
Speaker 1: I think it would be. It's it's kind of you

1355
01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:16,439
Speaker 1: could compare it to in a strange sense, you can

1356
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:20,559
Speaker 1: compare it to if you took wolves and predators off

1357
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:25,160
Speaker 1: a landscape. What elk turned into right, changes them, It

1358
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:27,600
Speaker 1: changes them. They don't they're not elk anymore. You know.

1359
01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:30,439
Speaker 1: You can look at Yellowstone and they took wolves off

1360
01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:34,519
Speaker 1: of Yellowstone. They became something different. Right when they reintroduced wolves.

1361
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:37,800
Speaker 1: The wolves just killed them at nausea because the elk

1362
01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:42,479
Speaker 1: didn't anymore know what to do with that predation. And

1363
01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:44,240
Speaker 1: I think it's the same thing. We change in the

1364
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:46,320
Speaker 1: same ways if we eliminate these things. And so I

1365
01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:50,000
Speaker 1: think those cultural things are important. Um, but that's where

1366
01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:52,840
Speaker 1: all these all, that's where the conflict and the interesting

1367
01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:56,840
Speaker 1: like where where bear baiting becomes interesting or where hound

1368
01:15:56,880 --> 01:16:00,560
Speaker 1: hunting becomes interesting because and and we said this in

1369
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:03,439
Speaker 1: the last Whiskey and Ethics, like we we tend to

1370
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:04,880
Speaker 1: talk out of both sides of our mouth in a

1371
01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:06,640
Speaker 1: lot of ways. We want to say that we know

1372
01:16:07,800 --> 01:16:10,519
Speaker 1: without a doubt that people that don't hunt have to

1373
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:13,000
Speaker 1: understand it, and they have to accept it, because if

1374
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:14,559
Speaker 1: they don't, they're going to vote at the hell out

1375
01:16:14,600 --> 01:16:16,880
Speaker 1: they've done it. They've done it, or they'll vote in

1376
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:18,800
Speaker 1: politicians that are gonna get rid of it. Done in

1377
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 1: New Jersey, done in California, they've done it in British Columbia.

1378
01:16:22,080 --> 01:16:25,240
Speaker 1: Those are those are not like those are not singular

1379
01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:28,800
Speaker 1: instances that won't be repeated. That's not that they are

1380
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:32,400
Speaker 1: the beginning of kind of a cultural fission or a fissure,

1381
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:34,600
Speaker 1: I believe. But like, so you have those things, like

1382
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:37,680
Speaker 1: where do you have you need knowledge and acceptance from

1383
01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:39,160
Speaker 1: people that don't do what we do. But at the

1384
01:16:39,200 --> 01:16:42,439
Speaker 1: same time, if you're just gonna pander to that lack

1385
01:16:42,479 --> 01:16:45,400
Speaker 1: of knowledge and the limit and it's shaving off things

1386
01:16:45,400 --> 01:16:47,439
Speaker 1: that they don't agree with, eventually you'll get to where

1387
01:16:47,479 --> 01:16:51,040
Speaker 1: you where you explained earlier about like you're using plastic

1388
01:16:51,080 --> 01:16:54,200
Speaker 1: calls that's unfair. And so I think that's where these

1389
01:16:54,240 --> 01:16:58,240
Speaker 1: two things bashed together, Like we need to stand our

1390
01:16:58,360 --> 01:17:01,000
Speaker 1: ground on certain things things, but we also need to

1391
01:17:01,080 --> 01:17:04,760
Speaker 1: understand that there's a non hunting public that has to

1392
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:07,439
Speaker 1: get it somehow. So what the hell do we do?

1393
01:17:07,520 --> 01:17:09,840
Speaker 1: That's man. I think we've just got to keep telling

1394
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:14,519
Speaker 1: our story, Ben, And you know, people when people see

1395
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:19,559
Speaker 1: that we are just normal humans with families that love

1396
01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:24,200
Speaker 1: our kids, that we're we're just we're not barbarians, but

1397
01:17:24,240 --> 01:17:26,760
Speaker 1: we're actually good people that pay our taxes and our

1398
01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:31,320
Speaker 1: good citizens and our respectful humans, like they are much

1399
01:17:31,360 --> 01:17:33,400
Speaker 1: more endeared to our cause. Now, how do I mean?

1400
01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:35,599
Speaker 1: I think Meters are doing that through what they're doing.

1401
01:17:35,800 --> 01:17:37,880
Speaker 1: I mean, and and I'm talking about the the show

1402
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:40,120
Speaker 1: and different things. I mean, I think that's what we're

1403
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:43,760
Speaker 1: doing through you know, the videos that we're making, is

1404
01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:47,320
Speaker 1: that we're showing people that we're we're human. We're endearing

1405
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:50,080
Speaker 1: them to them, and we're endearing them just to us

1406
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:53,480
Speaker 1: as humans because I've never I've yet to meet anybody,

1407
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:56,080
Speaker 1: and I have a lot of interactions with non hunting

1408
01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:58,280
Speaker 1: people I live. We live out in the country, but

1409
01:17:58,479 --> 01:18:01,920
Speaker 1: we're in a very urbani is part of Arkansas, kind

1410
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:04,880
Speaker 1: of the most affluent part of Arkansas, northwest Arkansas, where

1411
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:06,760
Speaker 1: Walmart is and all this stuff, and so a lot

1412
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:09,519
Speaker 1: of people from all over the world. Just this week,

1413
01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:13,000
Speaker 1: my son has been in a betting battle with a

1414
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:16,400
Speaker 1: boy from overseas that goes to our school. And uh,

1415
01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:20,160
Speaker 1: he asked Bear. My son's name is Bear, He asked,

1416
01:18:20,160 --> 01:18:23,240
Speaker 1: Barry said, he said, why do y'all hunt? And Bear said, man,

1417
01:18:23,479 --> 01:18:27,400
Speaker 1: we hunt. We we we eat everything we're harvesting, we're taking.

1418
01:18:27,479 --> 01:18:29,320
Speaker 1: And he said, you don't eat the stuff. And Bear said,

1419
01:18:29,360 --> 01:18:32,519
Speaker 1: I bet you a dollar will have some type of

1420
01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:35,240
Speaker 1: wild game tonight. And he didn't know. And when he

1421
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:38,040
Speaker 1: came home, well, we were having bear chili. So he

1422
01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:40,400
Speaker 1: came back to school the next day won the bet

1423
01:18:40,439 --> 01:18:43,280
Speaker 1: with a boy and the boy said, I bet you

1424
01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:47,479
Speaker 1: two dollars you don't have meet again. Tonight and Bear said,

1425
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:51,720
Speaker 1: I bet you anyway, point being, the boy finally realized that,

1426
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:54,439
Speaker 1: I mean, Bear has been talking to him, and he like,

1427
01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:58,320
Speaker 1: he like understands that these people really are they're eating

1428
01:18:58,360 --> 01:19:00,800
Speaker 1: this stuff. It's healthy, it's this is a this is

1429
01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:03,240
Speaker 1: a this is a family culture. And I think that

1430
01:19:03,320 --> 01:19:05,120
Speaker 1: I think the kids getting He's a good kid. The

1431
01:19:05,160 --> 01:19:07,360
Speaker 1: other other kid, he's one of our family friends. But

1432
01:19:08,479 --> 01:19:10,559
Speaker 1: point me and I think we gotta tell our story. Ben, Yeah,

1433
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:12,360
Speaker 1: they'll tell it for us. I mean that's that's what

1434
01:19:12,439 --> 01:19:15,320
Speaker 1: I If we don't tell our story, they'll tell it

1435
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:17,120
Speaker 1: for us. Because I had a conflict, I said it

1436
01:19:17,160 --> 01:19:19,639
Speaker 1: to Ronella, had a conflict when I first started putting

1437
01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:22,519
Speaker 1: my bear hunts up on YouTube, and in five years ago,

1438
01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:25,960
Speaker 1: I probably wasn't as intentional as I am now. Um,

1439
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:29,880
Speaker 1: but you know, I had a video that went viral

1440
01:19:29,920 --> 01:19:32,280
Speaker 1: and got massive amounts of hate. I mean kind of

1441
01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:36,240
Speaker 1: changed my life in some ways, my perspective on people. Uh,

1442
01:19:36,760 --> 01:19:40,320
Speaker 1: And I was like should I put this up? I

1443
01:19:40,320 --> 01:19:43,439
Speaker 1: mean like I really wrestled with that a lot, talked

1444
01:19:43,439 --> 01:19:44,880
Speaker 1: to a lot of people like I mean, should I

1445
01:19:45,040 --> 01:19:48,680
Speaker 1: not put this on YouTube? And in my conclusion is

1446
01:19:48,680 --> 01:19:51,080
Speaker 1: is that you know, if I don't tell the story,

1447
01:19:51,160 --> 01:19:54,720
Speaker 1: somebody else will. And here Here's the other thing is

1448
01:19:54,720 --> 01:19:57,200
Speaker 1: that people need the words. I think what we do

1449
01:19:57,280 --> 01:20:01,400
Speaker 1: in in in in media as we give people the

1450
01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:04,799
Speaker 1: words to say. I mean we we we we craft

1451
01:20:05,320 --> 01:20:09,280
Speaker 1: mind frames and ideology that somebody can go yeah. I

1452
01:20:09,280 --> 01:20:12,559
Speaker 1: mean I say stuff that that I hear. You know,

1453
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:14,640
Speaker 1: you guys say here at meat eat, I mean you

1454
01:20:14,640 --> 01:20:20,120
Speaker 1: know that have helped me fine tune my narrative. Um.

1455
01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:23,120
Speaker 1: I also think that humans, the one thing that humans

1456
01:20:23,120 --> 01:20:25,760
Speaker 1: have always been able to do is to discern when

1457
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:30,839
Speaker 1: someone is authentic. And if you are a jack wagon,

1458
01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:36,160
Speaker 1: and you know you're a jackwagon, if you're playing tennis,

1459
01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:38,920
Speaker 1: you're given tennis a bad name by being a jackwagon.

1460
01:20:39,160 --> 01:20:41,800
Speaker 1: You're also given hunting a bad name by being a jackwagon.

1461
01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:46,280
Speaker 1: I think if we're passionate about something that that is

1462
01:20:46,680 --> 01:20:49,000
Speaker 1: has so much influence on our life, it ought to

1463
01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:52,519
Speaker 1: make us a better human because of hunting. I ought

1464
01:20:52,520 --> 01:20:55,480
Speaker 1: to be a better husband, a better father, a better businessman,

1465
01:20:55,560 --> 01:20:58,320
Speaker 1: ought to be more honest, ought to have more integrity.

1466
01:20:58,439 --> 01:21:01,639
Speaker 1: And it's like I rep present something that is bigger

1467
01:21:01,680 --> 01:21:04,960
Speaker 1: than me, and that's what I want people. I want

1468
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:07,439
Speaker 1: people to I mean, and and that's the truth. I

1469
01:21:07,479 --> 01:21:09,639
Speaker 1: think people ought to be able to see a hunter

1470
01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:11,639
Speaker 1: and just I think that's what it used to be.

1471
01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:15,400
Speaker 1: I think it's like, man, that guy is an honorable man.

1472
01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:19,200
Speaker 1: He he is. He's full of restraint, he's disciplined, he's

1473
01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:22,559
Speaker 1: physically disciplined. He's a craftsman. And his weapon, you know,

1474
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:25,080
Speaker 1: with the with the weapon that he chooses, he's skilled.

1475
01:21:25,600 --> 01:21:27,720
Speaker 1: He he knows how to butcher an animal. He's this

1476
01:21:27,800 --> 01:21:31,360
Speaker 1: is a renaissance man. I mean, it's like hunting used

1477
01:21:31,360 --> 01:21:34,320
Speaker 1: to be something much bigger. And and so I say

1478
01:21:34,360 --> 01:21:38,080
Speaker 1: that to say the way to save hunting is to

1479
01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:42,040
Speaker 1: become a better human. Yeah, everybody, just take a break

1480
01:21:42,040 --> 01:21:44,879
Speaker 1: and rewind and listen to that ship again. That was awesome.

1481
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:48,120
Speaker 1: And I can't say that you've changed how I think

1482
01:21:48,160 --> 01:21:50,040
Speaker 1: about things, But god damn if if you're not listening

1483
01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:53,760
Speaker 1: to what Clay just said and thinking harder about how

1484
01:21:53,840 --> 01:21:56,840
Speaker 1: you speak and what you think and what you're willing

1485
01:21:56,840 --> 01:21:58,680
Speaker 1: to tolerate and what you're not willing to tolerate, then

1486
01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:01,280
Speaker 1: you're full. Because I mean, they're are. There are many

1487
01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:05,679
Speaker 1: things that we do online as hunters that just don't

1488
01:22:05,680 --> 01:22:08,599
Speaker 1: that that take away from the words that you just said.

1489
01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:10,680
Speaker 1: You know that are not not the videos that you

1490
01:22:10,720 --> 01:22:13,519
Speaker 1: put up that calls controversy just by the mere fact

1491
01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:15,320
Speaker 1: that there might be a bear coming into a bait.

1492
01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:19,759
Speaker 1: But there there are things out there that just aren't

1493
01:22:20,400 --> 01:22:23,920
Speaker 1: what you just describe. You know that they aren't articulations

1494
01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:27,000
Speaker 1: of the love and respect and the feelings that we

1495
01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:30,080
Speaker 1: have for it. They just aren't, you know, And we

1496
01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:33,280
Speaker 1: can't let people. We have to let people like you speak,

1497
01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:36,000
Speaker 1: and we have to let people that have their perspectives.

1498
01:22:36,040 --> 01:22:37,920
Speaker 1: You know, there's there's plenty of hounds been out there

1499
01:22:37,960 --> 01:22:39,519
Speaker 1: that can come sit right next to you and talk

1500
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:41,600
Speaker 1: with as much passionate about hounds as you can do

1501
01:22:41,640 --> 01:22:44,160
Speaker 1: about bait. There just is, and those are the people

1502
01:22:44,160 --> 01:22:45,720
Speaker 1: as a hunting community that we need to hear from

1503
01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:48,160
Speaker 1: before we make our decisions about whether we want to

1504
01:22:48,200 --> 01:22:50,640
Speaker 1: personally do something or not, or whether we want to

1505
01:22:50,680 --> 01:22:52,880
Speaker 1: help promote that or not, or help people understand it

1506
01:22:53,000 --> 01:22:57,320
Speaker 1: or not. So well done on your you weren't even

1507
01:22:57,320 --> 01:23:01,640
Speaker 1: reading off your notes that Yeah, that wouldn't even then

1508
01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:07,120
Speaker 1: write write that down, Phil, write that down. I think

1509
01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:11,280
Speaker 1: going back to back to baiting for a quick moment

1510
01:23:11,920 --> 01:23:16,719
Speaker 1: there it is. It is, it has become inside the community,

1511
01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:19,519
Speaker 1: outside community, kind of the front lines of the things

1512
01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:22,080
Speaker 1: that we're arguing about, the things we don't agree on.

1513
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:25,280
Speaker 1: We can list those out. It's always around. It seems

1514
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:28,320
Speaker 1: to always be around predators for lots lots of reasons,

1515
01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:32,360
Speaker 1: um and it seems to be always around ethical issues. Now,

1516
01:23:33,400 --> 01:23:35,639
Speaker 1: when I've said this before in this podcast, I think

1517
01:23:35,640 --> 01:23:39,519
Speaker 1: a fair chase in my own mind now today, like

1518
01:23:39,640 --> 01:23:41,679
Speaker 1: I have to be in the moment that I decided

1519
01:23:41,720 --> 01:23:44,920
Speaker 1: to kill the animal, and it becomes about the animal.

1520
01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:48,120
Speaker 1: Maybe prior to that, it may be that, And this

1521
01:23:48,200 --> 01:23:50,360
Speaker 1: is evolving for me, I would be very honest about this.

1522
01:23:51,400 --> 01:23:54,200
Speaker 1: It maybe prior to the killing of the animal, it

1523
01:23:54,240 --> 01:23:56,040
Speaker 1: can be about me a little bit. It can be

1524
01:23:56,080 --> 01:23:58,559
Speaker 1: about adventure, it can be about learning, it can be

1525
01:23:58,640 --> 01:24:01,479
Speaker 1: about being with my family. But at the moment that

1526
01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:04,479
Speaker 1: I draw my bow or shoulder my rifle, I must

1527
01:24:04,479 --> 01:24:09,400
Speaker 1: now start thinking about the animal. But there's more than that.

1528
01:24:09,640 --> 01:24:13,439
Speaker 1: I gotta think about the animal even before I've done that,

1529
01:24:14,479 --> 01:24:16,120
Speaker 1: to make sure I'm in a situation where I could

1530
01:24:16,120 --> 01:24:18,800
Speaker 1: be ethical and killing. So how do you think about that?

1531
01:24:18,800 --> 01:24:22,280
Speaker 1: When do you start thinking about like in the in

1532
01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:25,160
Speaker 1: the hunting sense, in the conceptual hunting sense, when you

1533
01:24:25,200 --> 01:24:28,519
Speaker 1: start thinking about the animal, you know, that's a good

1534
01:24:28,600 --> 01:24:31,479
Speaker 1: question to me. To me, it's I don't see it

1535
01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:36,120
Speaker 1: probably is distinctly segmented. Like you're saying. I'm not saying

1536
01:24:36,160 --> 01:24:38,640
Speaker 1: I disagree with what you're saying. Just I see it

1537
01:24:38,640 --> 01:24:43,720
Speaker 1: as more of a total package of just let me

1538
01:24:43,880 --> 01:24:48,880
Speaker 1: let me clarify. Clarify. I think I'm talking about like

1539
01:24:48,920 --> 01:24:51,479
Speaker 1: what I have to do right, Like I have choices

1540
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:53,719
Speaker 1: up until the point, but there's no I have no

1541
01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:56,320
Speaker 1: choice other than too when I draw my bow, I

1542
01:24:56,320 --> 01:24:58,280
Speaker 1: gotta be thinking about if I send this arrow, is

1543
01:24:58,320 --> 01:25:01,000
Speaker 1: it going to hit its mark? What's the probability that's

1544
01:25:01,000 --> 01:25:03,160
Speaker 1: gonna hit its mark? If I send this bullet, what's

1545
01:25:03,160 --> 01:25:05,080
Speaker 1: the probability is going to hit its mark? Is that

1546
01:25:05,160 --> 01:25:07,839
Speaker 1: the right animal is at the right time? Is it ethical?

1547
01:25:08,200 --> 01:25:10,280
Speaker 1: I have no choice of than to do that at

1548
01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:13,400
Speaker 1: that point. Leading up to that point, there's there's choices

1549
01:25:13,439 --> 01:25:16,240
Speaker 1: you can make. But when when it's time to kill

1550
01:25:16,320 --> 01:25:18,960
Speaker 1: the animal, I have to be thinking about the animal

1551
01:25:19,560 --> 01:25:22,479
Speaker 1: that there's there's no I I give myself no choice.

1552
01:25:22,520 --> 01:25:24,000
Speaker 1: So when I draw my bow, if it's the biggest

1553
01:25:24,000 --> 01:25:25,960
Speaker 1: buck of my life. But he's standing at seventy yards.

1554
01:25:26,040 --> 01:25:28,479
Speaker 1: I have to tell myself this. I haven't always been

1555
01:25:28,479 --> 01:25:31,599
Speaker 1: this way, but nowadays I tell myself, like, is it right?

1556
01:25:32,360 --> 01:25:35,120
Speaker 1: Is it true? You know? So you know, I think

1557
01:25:35,240 --> 01:25:39,880
Speaker 1: I think fair chase and just functional kind of ground

1558
01:25:39,960 --> 01:25:43,960
Speaker 1: roots hunting meet someplace, and that I've had bad experiences

1559
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:47,519
Speaker 1: where I made bad decisions as a young hunter and

1560
01:25:47,680 --> 01:25:51,360
Speaker 1: wish that I hadn't made those decisions, and those instances

1561
01:25:51,439 --> 01:25:56,639
Speaker 1: branded me so strongly that I'm not I can't say

1562
01:25:56,640 --> 01:25:59,640
Speaker 1: I'm consciously thinking about fair chase and ethics. When I

1563
01:25:59,720 --> 01:26:02,360
Speaker 1: pass ass on a shot with my traditional bow at

1564
01:26:02,400 --> 01:26:05,760
Speaker 1: a bear at twenty eight yards, it's like it's like,

1565
01:26:06,200 --> 01:26:09,960
Speaker 1: you know, there's this seamless thing of it is ethics.

1566
01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:14,320
Speaker 1: That's the reason I've passed. But it's also the bad

1567
01:26:14,320 --> 01:26:17,920
Speaker 1: experiences I've had in the past that branded me. My dad.

1568
01:26:18,560 --> 01:26:21,840
Speaker 1: I always talking about my dad. My dad, seventy two man.

1569
01:26:22,160 --> 01:26:27,560
Speaker 1: He pounded pounded into me before it was cool. He

1570
01:26:27,280 --> 01:26:30,960
Speaker 1: He used the term slob hunters a lot, and he

1571
01:26:31,040 --> 01:26:34,519
Speaker 1: talked about guys talking about slinging air like there were

1572
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:36,640
Speaker 1: things that I could not say, like we'd go to

1573
01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:38,880
Speaker 1: the bow shop and we would walk out and he

1574
01:26:38,880 --> 01:26:42,080
Speaker 1: would say, don't ever say that you slung an air

1575
01:26:42,160 --> 01:26:45,599
Speaker 1: at an animal. Don't ever say that you stuck an animal,

1576
01:26:46,120 --> 01:26:47,920
Speaker 1: because you walk in there and guy says, I stuck

1577
01:26:47,960 --> 01:26:50,599
Speaker 1: one yesterday. It couldn't find, you know, like he like,

1578
01:26:50,720 --> 01:26:52,720
Speaker 1: I mean I'm talking like when I'm like eight, you know.

1579
01:26:53,240 --> 01:26:56,519
Speaker 1: And so I had this really strong sense of man,

1580
01:26:56,600 --> 01:26:59,280
Speaker 1: you better take a good shot. And and when I

1581
01:26:59,320 --> 01:27:02,160
Speaker 1: was young, the first day ever shot, we didn't recover

1582
01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:05,479
Speaker 1: and it was it was almost like, uh, actually hit

1583
01:27:05,520 --> 01:27:11,559
Speaker 1: the animal. R Wara's aiming said, circumstances we didn't find it. Um,

1584
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:15,080
Speaker 1: it was most kids probably would have quit hunting for

1585
01:27:15,160 --> 01:27:18,120
Speaker 1: what I went through trying to recover that animal. And

1586
01:27:18,160 --> 01:27:22,599
Speaker 1: the kind of my dad didn't discipline me, but he

1587
01:27:22,920 --> 01:27:25,639
Speaker 1: in his own way without intil you know, it's like

1588
01:27:26,040 --> 01:27:28,000
Speaker 1: it branded me deep. And I think that's what a

1589
01:27:28,040 --> 01:27:30,920
Speaker 1: lot of people are missing, is they don't have that

1590
01:27:31,280 --> 01:27:36,080
Speaker 1: deep respect. Um. You know it certainly that answers your question,

1591
01:27:36,160 --> 01:27:37,720
Speaker 1: does it does? And I think it certainly could be

1592
01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:39,680
Speaker 1: that if you start with that branding, all the all

1593
01:27:39,680 --> 01:27:41,800
Speaker 1: the other decisions you make are are are grounded in

1594
01:27:41,880 --> 01:27:44,599
Speaker 1: that idea. Right, So any any decision you make, whether

1595
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:47,160
Speaker 1: it's to be too bay to bear or two spot

1596
01:27:47,160 --> 01:27:50,920
Speaker 1: and stock one or two um, to pass a shot,

1597
01:27:50,960 --> 01:27:53,479
Speaker 1: to take a shot, they're all grounded in that idea

1598
01:27:54,040 --> 01:27:57,800
Speaker 1: of value. Like, so if you start with that idea

1599
01:27:57,800 --> 01:27:59,240
Speaker 1: of value, the rest of the stuff that you do

1600
01:28:00,240 --> 01:28:03,640
Speaker 1: is informed by that, and you general become a better hunter, right,

1601
01:28:03,640 --> 01:28:06,800
Speaker 1: because what you're talking about is is a hunter. And again,

1602
01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:09,200
Speaker 1: I've seen this, and I'll be flat honest, I've seen it,

1603
01:28:09,240 --> 01:28:11,000
Speaker 1: and I've seen it recently and I've been a part

1604
01:28:11,000 --> 01:28:12,400
Speaker 1: of it, and I've had to kind of like look

1605
01:28:12,439 --> 01:28:16,000
Speaker 1: around and go, what what am I doing? Uh? Antelope

1606
01:28:16,400 --> 01:28:20,559
Speaker 1: out west? People fling arrows at antalope shooting long dis

1607
01:28:20,920 --> 01:28:23,719
Speaker 1: long distances that they wouldn't do other places, Like they're

1608
01:28:23,720 --> 01:28:26,439
Speaker 1: they're just things we accepted hunters, and things I've accepted

1609
01:28:26,439 --> 01:28:28,879
Speaker 1: in the past. And I'm not I'm not like charging

1610
01:28:28,920 --> 01:28:31,000
Speaker 1: against anyone here. I'm saying that this is something I've

1611
01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:32,880
Speaker 1: been a part of and sometime I've had a you know,

1612
01:28:33,520 --> 01:28:38,479
Speaker 1: questions on my own activities. Um that that to me

1613
01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:41,599
Speaker 1: was like whoa, Okay, whoa, whoa what's going on here? Like?

1614
01:28:41,680 --> 01:28:43,720
Speaker 1: Why is this happening. Why am I accepting of this?

1615
01:28:43,800 --> 01:28:47,479
Speaker 1: What are we doing here? There's there really are different

1616
01:28:47,600 --> 01:28:50,639
Speaker 1: standards for different people. And I think ultimately fair chases

1617
01:28:50,680 --> 01:28:52,960
Speaker 1: inside of a man really, I mean, like if we

1618
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:57,680
Speaker 1: could say that because you know, you know your own capabilities,

1619
01:28:57,760 --> 01:29:00,240
Speaker 1: you know what you're stacked up against, you know how

1620
01:29:00,280 --> 01:29:03,080
Speaker 1: well you can shoot, you know your experience. I mean,

1621
01:29:03,160 --> 01:29:05,559
Speaker 1: and a new hunter shouldn't do the same thing as

1622
01:29:05,600 --> 01:29:07,479
Speaker 1: another guy. And that's where we get in trouble, I think,

1623
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:11,000
Speaker 1: is that there's some guys that legitimately can kill Elcott

1624
01:29:11,200 --> 01:29:13,960
Speaker 1: or kill an Loop at seventy yards with a compound bow.

1625
01:29:14,600 --> 01:29:16,080
Speaker 1: I mean, there are guys that can do that. There

1626
01:29:16,080 --> 01:29:18,640
Speaker 1: are guys that absolutely should not be doing that. And

1627
01:29:18,680 --> 01:29:20,920
Speaker 1: so that's where the fair chase, if we're just righting

1628
01:29:20,960 --> 01:29:24,920
Speaker 1: out the tenants of fair chase, you just can't. I mean.

1629
01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:29,280
Speaker 1: And and it goes back to, you know, goes back

1630
01:29:29,280 --> 01:29:31,000
Speaker 1: to even what I was talking about before, is that

1631
01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:35,080
Speaker 1: fair chase really is designed to be an internal position

1632
01:29:35,240 --> 01:29:38,160
Speaker 1: of personal ethics, that kind of trust is involved. It's

1633
01:29:38,200 --> 01:29:40,559
Speaker 1: kind of like I'm going hunting with you, I trust

1634
01:29:40,640 --> 01:29:44,320
Speaker 1: that you have fair chase inside of you. And I

1635
01:29:44,320 --> 01:29:47,200
Speaker 1: mean that it's kind of a you know, it's hard

1636
01:29:47,200 --> 01:29:50,040
Speaker 1: to gauge that, but it's but it's it's almost at

1637
01:29:50,080 --> 01:29:51,360
Speaker 1: odds and a lot of the ways that we are

1638
01:29:51,360 --> 01:29:54,880
Speaker 1: as humans, right because we want rules, yeah, and we yeah,

1639
01:29:54,920 --> 01:29:57,200
Speaker 1: we want someone to say like that, okay, it's not okay. Well,

1640
01:29:57,280 --> 01:30:01,040
Speaker 1: hunting is often you're often alone or you're often with

1641
01:30:01,040 --> 01:30:03,479
Speaker 1: with very few people, so there's not that's collective like

1642
01:30:03,560 --> 01:30:05,599
Speaker 1: I do. You're it's all of a sudden, You're like,

1643
01:30:06,160 --> 01:30:10,840
Speaker 1: it's you and your own personal choices set against death

1644
01:30:12,160 --> 01:30:14,240
Speaker 1: to you and the things that you decided to do

1645
01:30:14,280 --> 01:30:18,599
Speaker 1: in that moment, set against the maiming death some some

1646
01:30:19,160 --> 01:30:22,800
Speaker 1: life altering situation for that credit or that animal that's

1647
01:30:22,840 --> 01:30:26,720
Speaker 1: standing there. You know, So you're often left with just

1648
01:30:27,680 --> 01:30:31,080
Speaker 1: a personal decision because there's nobody else around. If you're

1649
01:30:31,080 --> 01:30:32,800
Speaker 1: sitting in a tree standing, a deer walks under and

1650
01:30:32,840 --> 01:30:35,479
Speaker 1: he's just he's at forty five yards, he's behind a tree,

1651
01:30:35,520 --> 01:30:37,040
Speaker 1: and all you can see is his guts and his

1652
01:30:37,080 --> 01:30:38,680
Speaker 1: liver and a little bit of his lungs. You're like,

1653
01:30:38,720 --> 01:30:40,600
Speaker 1: I gotta take the shot. He's a giant buck, and

1654
01:30:40,600 --> 01:30:42,240
Speaker 1: he shoot him in the guts and you never find

1655
01:30:42,320 --> 01:30:46,200
Speaker 1: him and he's eaten by coyotes. Like what was involved there?

1656
01:30:46,280 --> 01:30:48,320
Speaker 1: What was the emotion that you let drive it? Lust?

1657
01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:50,880
Speaker 1: Like what like when you're talking about I think we've

1658
01:30:50,920 --> 01:30:52,880
Speaker 1: just got to learn from that stuff, Like people have

1659
01:30:53,000 --> 01:30:55,320
Speaker 1: to be attentive enough. And that's what I was saying

1660
01:30:55,320 --> 01:30:58,720
Speaker 1: about my upbringing. It's like, man, I don't not take

1661
01:30:58,760 --> 01:31:00,880
Speaker 1: bad shots now because as I want to be more

1662
01:31:00,920 --> 01:31:04,439
Speaker 1: fair Chase, I don't take bad shots now because of

1663
01:31:04,479 --> 01:31:08,400
Speaker 1: the bad experiences that impacted me deeply over the years.

1664
01:31:08,520 --> 01:31:11,840
Speaker 1: So it's like again fair chases inside of a man. Yeah,

1665
01:31:11,840 --> 01:31:13,960
Speaker 1: you're in tune, like some people take those bad shots

1666
01:31:14,000 --> 01:31:17,160
Speaker 1: and slough them off and continue like you're in tune

1667
01:31:17,160 --> 01:31:19,040
Speaker 1: to like this is and me too, I've had so

1668
01:31:19,160 --> 01:31:22,040
Speaker 1: I had like nightmares about bad shots I've taken and

1669
01:31:22,120 --> 01:31:25,800
Speaker 1: dumb shit I've done, and and like it, this whole

1670
01:31:25,800 --> 01:31:28,840
Speaker 1: conversation becomes just the measure of of what who you are,

1671
01:31:28,960 --> 01:31:32,200
Speaker 1: how you can adapt and and I think that maybe

1672
01:31:32,200 --> 01:31:35,679
Speaker 1: flips back because we I was saying within the gripping

1673
01:31:35,720 --> 01:31:38,880
Speaker 1: grin conversation, like we do things different to try to

1674
01:31:38,960 --> 01:31:41,479
Speaker 1: solve for issues that we have not with our not

1675
01:31:41,520 --> 01:31:44,679
Speaker 1: with society, but within ourselves, right, we do. People have

1676
01:31:44,960 --> 01:31:49,320
Speaker 1: started doing the solemn gripping grin to solve an issue, right,

1677
01:31:49,840 --> 01:31:52,760
Speaker 1: And I think it's both, like I said earlier, intrinsic

1678
01:31:52,800 --> 01:31:57,200
Speaker 1: and extrinsic, that that issue is internal and external. Externally,

1679
01:31:57,240 --> 01:31:59,320
Speaker 1: people don't want to see you smiling and celebrate omver

1680
01:31:59,360 --> 01:32:02,360
Speaker 1: something that died internally you really maybe don't want to

1681
01:32:02,360 --> 01:32:05,960
Speaker 1: do that either. Like there there's a little bit of

1682
01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:08,120
Speaker 1: both happening at the same time. I'm kind of into

1683
01:32:08,160 --> 01:32:12,200
Speaker 1: the smile, but no direct contact with the camera. That's

1684
01:32:12,200 --> 01:32:14,719
Speaker 1: where I'm at right now. But like that, But I

1685
01:32:14,720 --> 01:32:18,840
Speaker 1: I would say that like with with with those kind

1686
01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:23,840
Speaker 1: of practices were changing them because we're we're changing, and

1687
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:27,120
Speaker 1: the world is changing, and all this all this stimuli

1688
01:32:27,160 --> 01:32:30,160
Speaker 1: and all these inputs are changing us as people have

1689
01:32:30,320 --> 01:32:33,040
Speaker 1: changed our hunting culture, and it's hard to recognize that.

1690
01:32:33,160 --> 01:32:36,160
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's hard to recognize who we were and who

1691
01:32:36,200 --> 01:32:39,400
Speaker 1: we are, who we're gonna be, And so all these

1692
01:32:39,439 --> 01:32:43,680
Speaker 1: ethical conversations become way more broad. Baiting becomes way more

1693
01:32:43,720 --> 01:32:46,880
Speaker 1: broad than just baiting, because it's not just the idea

1694
01:32:46,920 --> 01:32:49,680
Speaker 1: of putting out an unnatural food source for him to

1695
01:32:49,720 --> 01:32:52,439
Speaker 1: come in and eat. It's more about what you said earlier,

1696
01:32:52,479 --> 01:32:55,639
Speaker 1: and more about what we're talking about. You know, then

1697
01:32:55,680 --> 01:32:58,400
Speaker 1: I've got to two thoughts, and I want to say

1698
01:32:58,479 --> 01:33:00,640
Speaker 1: both of them so that I don't forget. I have

1699
01:33:00,680 --> 01:33:03,720
Speaker 1: a hard time, you know, my extensive notes here. Maybe

1700
01:33:03,720 --> 01:33:05,400
Speaker 1: I should start taking phil You think I should start

1701
01:33:05,400 --> 01:33:08,320
Speaker 1: taking notes so I know what I'm saying. I think

1702
01:33:08,320 --> 01:33:11,400
Speaker 1: I think it's more fun when you don't say I've

1703
01:33:11,439 --> 01:33:13,439
Speaker 1: got to I've got two thoughts I want to I

1704
01:33:13,479 --> 01:33:16,920
Speaker 1: want to talk about animal death. Number one and number

1705
01:33:16,920 --> 01:33:19,679
Speaker 1: two I want to talk about I want to talk

1706
01:33:19,760 --> 01:33:25,040
Speaker 1: about spotting stock hunting, which oftentimes is viewed as the

1707
01:33:25,120 --> 01:33:27,680
Speaker 1: most natural, kind of elite way to hunt. So can

1708
01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:31,360
Speaker 1: you help me remember those, Philip. Here's here's the thing

1709
01:33:31,360 --> 01:33:33,920
Speaker 1: on animal death that I think people don't understand. People

1710
01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:37,840
Speaker 1: see a bear, they see this majestic black bear, and

1711
01:33:37,880 --> 01:33:40,080
Speaker 1: they see a hunter kill that bear, and they think,

1712
01:33:40,360 --> 01:33:44,400
Speaker 1: how could you have killed that bear? Well, the truth

1713
01:33:44,520 --> 01:33:47,040
Speaker 1: is is that do you think that bear is gonna

1714
01:33:47,080 --> 01:33:52,400
Speaker 1: live forever? I mean the cycle any animal that you see.

1715
01:33:52,520 --> 01:33:55,479
Speaker 1: And I've never heard really anybody say this quite like this,

1716
01:33:55,560 --> 01:33:58,479
Speaker 1: but but it's true that majestic bull elk on the

1717
01:33:58,479 --> 01:34:04,240
Speaker 1: mountain bugling out there. Now he will die. There's my

1718
01:34:04,320 --> 01:34:10,080
Speaker 1: Pointinite he is going, he's he's gonna die. And nature

1719
01:34:10,520 --> 01:34:14,960
Speaker 1: nature is by essence quite cruel if you talk about

1720
01:34:15,240 --> 01:34:17,680
Speaker 1: human ethics, I mean, you know, like I had a

1721
01:34:17,720 --> 01:34:20,840
Speaker 1: guy the other day, I mean, the architecture of the

1722
01:34:20,840 --> 01:34:24,759
Speaker 1: world we live in involves death that brings back life.

1723
01:34:24,800 --> 01:34:27,200
Speaker 1: I mean, this thing is fueled by death. And so

1724
01:34:27,360 --> 01:34:30,840
Speaker 1: I think part of our the anti hunting sentiment and

1725
01:34:30,920 --> 01:34:33,360
Speaker 1: even sometimes what we give into a little bit even

1726
01:34:33,360 --> 01:34:35,920
Speaker 1: as hunters. And that's where I'm careful. I want to

1727
01:34:35,920 --> 01:34:41,760
Speaker 1: be massively, massively and authentically respectful of taking an animal's life.

1728
01:34:41,960 --> 01:34:45,240
Speaker 1: At the same time, I don't. I don't want to

1729
01:34:46,120 --> 01:34:49,519
Speaker 1: have a shifting baseline, you know, in that if I

1730
01:34:49,560 --> 01:34:52,160
Speaker 1: hadn't killed that bear, he would have died a very

1731
01:34:52,200 --> 01:34:56,839
Speaker 1: difficult death, much more difficult than a sharp blade between

1732
01:34:56,960 --> 01:34:59,599
Speaker 1: two lungs and him living eight seconds and just going

1733
01:34:59,640 --> 01:35:02,559
Speaker 1: to slip after crashing through a thicket. I mean, I'm

1734
01:35:02,560 --> 01:35:05,560
Speaker 1: just being honest. Like he he would have died from

1735
01:35:05,760 --> 01:35:09,519
Speaker 1: old age teeth, you know, couldn't chew up acorns and

1736
01:35:09,560 --> 01:35:12,080
Speaker 1: so died starvation. He probably died in the din in

1737
01:35:12,080 --> 01:35:14,320
Speaker 1: the winter. I mean like you really think about stuff

1738
01:35:14,360 --> 01:35:18,360
Speaker 1: like that. In in taking out an animal, it kind

1739
01:35:18,360 --> 01:35:20,599
Speaker 1: of puts it in perspective. And I think that's something

1740
01:35:20,640 --> 01:35:23,639
Speaker 1: that hunters we don't think about sometimes, is that every

1741
01:35:23,680 --> 01:35:28,160
Speaker 1: animal is gonna die and and and that's not a

1742
01:35:28,200 --> 01:35:31,360
Speaker 1: massively strong point, but that is something that I think

1743
01:35:32,520 --> 01:35:35,120
Speaker 1: something to remember. And like what you're talking about, I

1744
01:35:35,280 --> 01:35:38,720
Speaker 1: was thinking of, like what's natural death? Right? We talked

1745
01:35:38,760 --> 01:35:41,439
Speaker 1: about like a natural death. And if you think of

1746
01:35:41,479 --> 01:35:45,720
Speaker 1: like how nature is constituted unconstructed, death is violent. So

1747
01:35:45,760 --> 01:35:49,120
Speaker 1: a natural death. And many times if you're talking about

1748
01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:53,080
Speaker 1: just the word natural death, a natural death is predatory,

1749
01:35:53,080 --> 01:35:57,439
Speaker 1: it's violent. Nature has no problem with death. Nature is death,

1750
01:35:57,600 --> 01:36:00,559
Speaker 1: Nature is pain, nature is violence. All those things are

1751
01:36:00,680 --> 01:36:04,559
Speaker 1: together in this primordial soup that is the natural world.

1752
01:36:04,880 --> 01:36:06,880
Speaker 1: We have just removed ourselves from the violence and the

1753
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:10,280
Speaker 1: death and and and those the natural processes in which

1754
01:36:10,280 --> 01:36:13,559
Speaker 1: these things happen. So, Honey, is in some sense inserting

1755
01:36:13,600 --> 01:36:17,000
Speaker 1: yourself back into this into something that we've been in

1756
01:36:17,160 --> 01:36:21,000
Speaker 1: since forever. And we always relied upon being a part

1757
01:36:21,040 --> 01:36:25,240
Speaker 1: of this very violent circle, this very unnatural like this

1758
01:36:25,439 --> 01:36:29,599
Speaker 1: very natural like pain and suffering and all those things

1759
01:36:29,600 --> 01:36:31,840
Speaker 1: that are kind of just intrinsic in the in the

1760
01:36:31,880 --> 01:36:35,040
Speaker 1: world of nature, like that ship gets ripped apart. I

1761
01:36:35,120 --> 01:36:36,840
Speaker 1: was watching a video other day. That's why nature is

1762
01:36:36,880 --> 01:36:40,240
Speaker 1: metal as a thing, because because some there's some part

1763
01:36:40,240 --> 01:36:43,519
Speaker 1: of us that needs to remind ourselves that this ship

1764
01:36:44,000 --> 01:36:48,200
Speaker 1: is bad. Like it, nature will rip you apart and

1765
01:36:48,200 --> 01:36:50,960
Speaker 1: it doesn't care. That's what people don't understand. But I'm

1766
01:36:50,960 --> 01:36:53,920
Speaker 1: reading a book right now called Sapiens. That's a good book.

1767
01:36:53,960 --> 01:36:56,840
Speaker 1: Have you read it? Okay? The guy in the first

1768
01:36:56,960 --> 01:36:59,440
Speaker 1: first part of it, the guy was talking about, um,

1769
01:36:59,560 --> 01:37:02,040
Speaker 1: how almost brought it in today because I thought we

1770
01:37:02,120 --> 01:37:04,840
Speaker 1: might use it as a quote. But he talked about

1771
01:37:04,840 --> 01:37:10,040
Speaker 1: how basically we're these like we're hunters that are trapped

1772
01:37:10,080 --> 01:37:13,960
Speaker 1: inside of this civilized society, and there's so much of

1773
01:37:14,000 --> 01:37:19,240
Speaker 1: who we are, even from a biological standpoint that I mean,

1774
01:37:19,320 --> 01:37:21,880
Speaker 1: there's there's this conflict in us right now living in

1775
01:37:21,960 --> 01:37:27,720
Speaker 1: civilized society, but with this gazillion years of development that

1776
01:37:27,840 --> 01:37:30,000
Speaker 1: we were hunters, you know. I mean that's kind of

1777
01:37:30,000 --> 01:37:32,599
Speaker 1: a yeah. I mean, it's an interesting thought. We're different

1778
01:37:32,640 --> 01:37:34,080
Speaker 1: than we used to be, and we'll be different in

1779
01:37:34,120 --> 01:37:36,240
Speaker 1: the future. I mean, this gets deep, and maybe we

1780
01:37:36,240 --> 01:37:38,240
Speaker 1: should be like taking mushrooms to talk about this, but

1781
01:37:38,760 --> 01:37:41,680
Speaker 1: there's uh, there's a there's an idea that we will

1782
01:37:41,720 --> 01:37:44,439
Speaker 1: be in the future. Yeah, more Lacroix. We got a

1783
01:37:44,439 --> 01:37:46,680
Speaker 1: little we got the also put a picture up. We

1784
01:37:46,760 --> 01:37:49,680
Speaker 1: got the mediator straight bourbon whiskey. Here it was on

1785
01:37:49,720 --> 01:37:52,800
Speaker 1: the table. We were able to to write pairs with

1786
01:37:52,920 --> 01:37:55,680
Speaker 1: bear bait. I convinced our guys to did you know,

1787
01:37:56,640 --> 01:38:00,439
Speaker 1: are you serious? And we're gonna wow. So it does

1788
01:38:00,479 --> 01:38:04,960
Speaker 1: PA pairs of bear bait, right, Phil, I haven't tried

1789
01:38:05,000 --> 01:38:08,160
Speaker 1: bear bait, but I'm sure it's just like bear Bait's good,

1790
01:38:08,240 --> 01:38:11,920
Speaker 1: like this is doughnuts and ship down sometimes. But I

1791
01:38:11,960 --> 01:38:14,160
Speaker 1: think I guess to finish the point of like, we're

1792
01:38:14,200 --> 01:38:18,679
Speaker 1: not what we were, right, We're not We're we've only

1793
01:38:18,680 --> 01:38:20,639
Speaker 1: not been what we were for a very short, very

1794
01:38:21,200 --> 01:38:24,760
Speaker 1: very short period of time. We're not what we were,

1795
01:38:24,840 --> 01:38:27,519
Speaker 1: and we won't be what we are in the future. Right,

1796
01:38:27,520 --> 01:38:30,800
Speaker 1: we will evolve. Um. And there's often when I've talked

1797
01:38:30,800 --> 01:38:34,200
Speaker 1: to anti hunters and Animal Rights actis, they'll often bring

1798
01:38:34,280 --> 01:38:36,040
Speaker 1: up and I've thought about this a lot since I

1799
01:38:36,160 --> 01:38:39,960
Speaker 1: don't have these conversations, they'll often bring up things like, well,

1800
01:38:40,200 --> 01:38:42,519
Speaker 1: we can't just do it because we've always done it, right,

1801
01:38:42,640 --> 01:38:44,400
Speaker 1: if we if we always did it, because we've always

1802
01:38:44,439 --> 01:38:46,920
Speaker 1: done it, we'd have slaves, and we've had racism, and

1803
01:38:46,960 --> 01:38:50,080
Speaker 1: we've had all these things, and and I'd like, I

1804
01:38:50,120 --> 01:38:52,880
Speaker 1: can't just no one can disagree with that point that is,

1805
01:38:52,960 --> 01:38:57,759
Speaker 1: That point is is well made. I get it. But hunting,

1806
01:38:58,080 --> 01:39:02,120
Speaker 1: eating meat is who we are, Like, you have to

1807
01:39:02,160 --> 01:39:05,360
Speaker 1: separate it from like cultural changes, in societal changes that

1808
01:39:05,439 --> 01:39:07,400
Speaker 1: have happened in like blinks of an eye. This is

1809
01:39:07,479 --> 01:39:11,160
Speaker 1: millions of years of evolution. And you know, if you're

1810
01:39:11,200 --> 01:39:14,840
Speaker 1: believing in in that story, which I do, that that

1811
01:39:14,880 --> 01:39:17,320
Speaker 1: has brought us to this point. Now we were moving away.

1812
01:39:17,720 --> 01:39:20,479
Speaker 1: Every day we're moving further away from what we were.

1813
01:39:20,920 --> 01:39:23,639
Speaker 1: But it's a different story to say, like we can't

1814
01:39:24,000 --> 01:39:26,200
Speaker 1: we can't have slavery anymore because we know it's bad. Well,

1815
01:39:26,240 --> 01:39:29,280
Speaker 1: we can't have hunting because we know it's bad. Not

1816
01:39:29,360 --> 01:39:32,519
Speaker 1: in the same category, not in the span of time

1817
01:39:32,560 --> 01:39:34,040
Speaker 1: and the span of who we are. It's just not

1818
01:39:34,120 --> 01:39:38,280
Speaker 1: in the same category. Uh, in comparison, In comparison to hunting,

1819
01:39:38,280 --> 01:39:42,439
Speaker 1: slavery is but a blip on the timeline, a shitty, terrible,

1820
01:39:42,520 --> 01:39:45,960
Speaker 1: horrible mistake of a blip, but a blip nonetheless, and

1821
01:39:46,040 --> 01:39:51,040
Speaker 1: so our cultural revolution around hunting that started a hundred

1822
01:39:51,160 --> 01:39:56,240
Speaker 1: years ago or last even is a blip. Like, you know,

1823
01:39:56,360 --> 01:39:58,960
Speaker 1: we had this thing, we changed it, we fucked it up,

1824
01:39:59,000 --> 01:40:00,800
Speaker 1: and then we brought it back. Yeah, that's where we

1825
01:40:00,840 --> 01:40:04,680
Speaker 1: are today. And so I don't know where this all

1826
01:40:04,720 --> 01:40:09,599
Speaker 1: goes back to baiting. But okay, listen, I've added another

1827
01:40:09,680 --> 01:40:12,160
Speaker 1: thing to my list. So I've already done number one.

1828
01:40:12,360 --> 01:40:16,799
Speaker 1: Now I've got two and now three. Just thinking about

1829
01:40:17,160 --> 01:40:20,400
Speaker 1: why in twenty nineteen are we talking about baiting. Why

1830
01:40:20,439 --> 01:40:25,679
Speaker 1: are we talking about bears? Um, the whatever is happening

1831
01:40:25,760 --> 01:40:29,960
Speaker 1: ecologically in North America has been highly beneficial, specifically to

1832
01:40:30,040 --> 01:40:32,439
Speaker 1: black bears, and that's what we'll I'll say, that would

1833
01:40:32,439 --> 01:40:36,040
Speaker 1: be my statement. Highly black bear populations are thriving all

1834
01:40:36,080 --> 01:40:39,000
Speaker 1: across North America. It's unbelievable. There there is no place

1835
01:40:39,040 --> 01:40:44,439
Speaker 1: where they're like, man, they're really bad. So take that

1836
01:40:44,479 --> 01:40:47,760
Speaker 1: a step further back. The North American model of wildlife conservation,

1837
01:40:48,720 --> 01:40:52,080
Speaker 1: whatever it is and whatever it has done, it's got

1838
01:40:52,080 --> 01:40:54,200
Speaker 1: to be a part of this as well. And so

1839
01:40:54,560 --> 01:40:57,320
Speaker 1: all of a sudden there is a need on the

1840
01:40:57,360 --> 01:41:01,720
Speaker 1: planet for bear hunters more than ever there really is.

1841
01:41:01,760 --> 01:41:04,800
Speaker 1: I mean, like because if these if these animals are

1842
01:41:04,800 --> 01:41:09,679
Speaker 1: not managed, if our culture doesn't a lot for hunters

1843
01:41:09,720 --> 01:41:12,639
Speaker 1: to be the management tool, then there's gonna be other

1844
01:41:12,760 --> 01:41:15,560
Speaker 1: measures to take out bears, because that's the that's the

1845
01:41:15,560 --> 01:41:18,719
Speaker 1: way it works. There's only so much habitat. Bears expand

1846
01:41:18,760 --> 01:41:21,240
Speaker 1: by ten percent per year in a normal population, and

1847
01:41:21,280 --> 01:41:24,280
Speaker 1: a lot of populations even more than that. And so

1848
01:41:24,280 --> 01:41:27,400
Speaker 1: I mean, bears are expanding their range. And Arkansas, Arkansas

1849
01:41:27,840 --> 01:41:31,400
Speaker 1: is an incredible picture of what's happening. There was a

1850
01:41:31,439 --> 01:41:34,160
Speaker 1: reintroduction into Arkansas in the nineteen fifties and sixties and

1851
01:41:34,160 --> 01:41:37,559
Speaker 1: two fifty four bears basically into a blank canvas that

1852
01:41:37,680 --> 01:41:41,639
Speaker 1: was once totally inhabited by bears. Today in our region

1853
01:41:42,040 --> 01:41:47,000
Speaker 1: there's estimates of around ten thousand bears between southern Missouri, Arkansas,

1854
01:41:47,120 --> 01:41:52,680
Speaker 1: Southeast Oklahoma, northern Louisiana, and western Mississippi. And it's like

1855
01:41:52,880 --> 01:41:55,000
Speaker 1: these bears from this one place to just and are

1856
01:41:55,040 --> 01:41:57,759
Speaker 1: going into places they hadn't been in a hundred years.

1857
01:41:58,080 --> 01:42:01,639
Speaker 1: So it's like, whatever's happening, it's good for black bear.

1858
01:42:01,920 --> 01:42:04,479
Speaker 1: We need bear hunters. Takes me into my third point,

1859
01:42:04,800 --> 01:42:09,920
Speaker 1: which is spotting stalk hunting, which, man, I it's kind

1860
01:42:09,920 --> 01:42:11,960
Speaker 1: of funny to me that I'm like the spokesman for

1861
01:42:12,040 --> 01:42:14,320
Speaker 1: baiting bears. You know, I told my wife, I was like,

1862
01:42:14,360 --> 01:42:16,040
Speaker 1: I never meant for it to be this way. I

1863
01:42:16,080 --> 01:42:17,599
Speaker 1: got a lot of that too, I tell my time,

1864
01:42:17,600 --> 01:42:20,240
Speaker 1: I never really meant to be that. Like I drank

1865
01:42:20,240 --> 01:42:25,320
Speaker 1: a white claw and then yeah, well I love spot

1866
01:42:25,439 --> 01:42:30,360
Speaker 1: stock hunting. I truly do. Spot Stock hunting is the

1867
01:42:30,439 --> 01:42:33,360
Speaker 1: least selective way to hunt bear. Like for some of

1868
01:42:33,360 --> 01:42:35,679
Speaker 1: these people that are just really wrestling with the ethics

1869
01:42:35,720 --> 01:42:38,960
Speaker 1: of bear hunting, the spotting stock hunting is by far

1870
01:42:39,120 --> 01:42:42,040
Speaker 1: the least selective way to hunt bear. When I spot

1871
01:42:42,080 --> 01:42:44,559
Speaker 1: in stock hunting, and my life is a perfect example

1872
01:42:44,600 --> 01:42:46,720
Speaker 1: of it. I'll sit over a bear bait then in

1873
01:42:46,840 --> 01:42:50,599
Speaker 1: Arkansas and will pass bears that most people would never pass.

1874
01:42:50,880 --> 01:42:56,479
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll pass incredible animals waiting for really what

1875
01:42:56,560 --> 01:42:59,760
Speaker 1: I'm after. That's my way to limit myself. Three weeks

1876
01:42:59,800 --> 01:43:03,880
Speaker 1: ago a national forest in Arkansas, I killed every ounce

1877
01:43:03,960 --> 01:43:07,000
Speaker 1: of an average bear and thought that I had just,

1878
01:43:08,120 --> 01:43:10,360
Speaker 1: I mean done the greatest feat of any hunter on

1879
01:43:10,360 --> 01:43:13,240
Speaker 1: the planet, and I was ecstatic. I would have never

1880
01:43:13,600 --> 01:43:16,760
Speaker 1: harvested that bear over bait um and and so it's

1881
01:43:16,800 --> 01:43:19,000
Speaker 1: and in some ways knocking my spot in stock hunt,

1882
01:43:19,479 --> 01:43:21,799
Speaker 1: you know. And so like when I was in Montana

1883
01:43:21,880 --> 01:43:23,840
Speaker 1: this spring, took my meals up to Montana and hunted.

1884
01:43:23,920 --> 01:43:27,160
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we saw six bears. The first one,

1885
01:43:27,240 --> 01:43:30,200
Speaker 1: you know, I missed two bears. But you know, I mean,

1886
01:43:30,280 --> 01:43:33,080
Speaker 1: like I wouldn't be in selective. It was after an

1887
01:43:33,080 --> 01:43:36,960
Speaker 1: adult bear. And so that's a really strong point, because people,

1888
01:43:37,320 --> 01:43:41,160
Speaker 1: that's incredibly strong point. Its incredible. It's the point I

1889
01:43:41,160 --> 01:43:43,679
Speaker 1: think that maybe Trump's all others here, and I think

1890
01:43:44,080 --> 01:43:46,840
Speaker 1: it's maybe articulated in my mind like this, if I

1891
01:43:46,920 --> 01:43:50,479
Speaker 1: post a picture, I don't, but if someone posts a

1892
01:43:50,479 --> 01:43:55,080
Speaker 1: picture this happened. Actually, this happened on First Light's social

1893
01:43:55,080 --> 01:43:57,720
Speaker 1: media recently, where they posted a picture of a guy

1894
01:43:57,800 --> 01:43:59,040
Speaker 1: group I'm gonna have a guy in a in a

1895
01:43:59,040 --> 01:44:01,880
Speaker 1: pretty small bear, and people wrecked him for it. They

1896
01:44:01,960 --> 01:44:04,160
Speaker 1: wrecked him for it. Now I'm pretty sure he was

1897
01:44:04,160 --> 01:44:06,200
Speaker 1: spotting in stalking from the photo. I don't know the

1898
01:44:06,200 --> 01:44:09,720
Speaker 1: guy Adah satn stalking, right, So people wrecked him for

1899
01:44:09,760 --> 01:44:12,519
Speaker 1: shooting a small bear. Here's what we're talking about. We're

1900
01:44:12,560 --> 01:44:15,320
Speaker 1: willing at one moment to wreck a guy for shooting

1901
01:44:15,360 --> 01:44:17,639
Speaker 1: a small bear at that same moment, I'm sure there's

1902
01:44:17,680 --> 01:44:19,760
Speaker 1: people in that same crowd that would wreck him for

1903
01:44:19,920 --> 01:44:23,320
Speaker 1: bit hunting over bait and being selected and being selective. Now,

1904
01:44:24,680 --> 01:44:26,880
Speaker 1: if we're gonna have and we're gonna be against something,

1905
01:44:27,520 --> 01:44:30,160
Speaker 1: we better damn we'll get our ship together and understand

1906
01:44:30,640 --> 01:44:32,920
Speaker 1: what it is that we're actually talking about. What are

1907
01:44:33,000 --> 01:44:36,080
Speaker 1: we talking about? Are we talking about trophy hunting? Are

1908
01:44:36,080 --> 01:44:37,920
Speaker 1: we talking about is a big, mature adult bear to

1909
01:44:38,000 --> 01:44:39,920
Speaker 1: the thing we're after? Well, if that's what we're after,

1910
01:44:41,040 --> 01:44:44,439
Speaker 1: I've seen we were hunting turkeys in in the National

1911
01:44:44,520 --> 01:44:47,160
Speaker 1: Forest in the Idaho this last year. There was bait

1912
01:44:47,240 --> 01:44:50,320
Speaker 1: sites out there that guys had set up. Um. I

1913
01:44:50,400 --> 01:44:52,439
Speaker 1: didn't look at those and be like, oh, what what

1914
01:44:52,479 --> 01:44:54,840
Speaker 1: are those assholes? I'm like, Oh, that's cool. The way

1915
01:44:54,840 --> 01:44:57,720
Speaker 1: I always say it as I say, who's the conservation hero? Yeah,

1916
01:44:57,800 --> 01:44:59,679
Speaker 1: I took a little bit of flak for this statement,

1917
01:45:00,160 --> 01:45:04,439
Speaker 1: but who's the conservation hero? The guy that kills? And

1918
01:45:04,720 --> 01:45:06,800
Speaker 1: it's kind of in relation to baiting and and even

1919
01:45:07,040 --> 01:45:10,040
Speaker 1: what I think you would call trophy hunting maybe, which

1920
01:45:10,479 --> 01:45:13,080
Speaker 1: that's another thing we've talked about um, But who's the

1921
01:45:13,120 --> 01:45:17,000
Speaker 1: conservation hero The guy that non selectively takes a juvenile

1922
01:45:17,120 --> 01:45:21,200
Speaker 1: or female uh in whatever type of hunt, or the

1923
01:45:21,320 --> 01:45:24,920
Speaker 1: guy that passes ten bears and takes an older age

1924
01:45:24,960 --> 01:45:27,320
Speaker 1: class mail. You know, the one thing that we that

1925
01:45:27,439 --> 01:45:30,559
Speaker 1: we do preach a lot is that older age class

1926
01:45:30,640 --> 01:45:33,920
Speaker 1: males most of the time and most management situations are

1927
01:45:34,000 --> 01:45:37,360
Speaker 1: the best animals that they're their target animal, They've contributed

1928
01:45:37,400 --> 01:45:40,800
Speaker 1: to the gene pool, they are their target animal. And

1929
01:45:40,920 --> 01:45:43,679
Speaker 1: so you know, like who's the conservation hero the spot

1930
01:45:43,760 --> 01:45:46,559
Speaker 1: and stalk guy me Clay Knucomb that went to Montana

1931
01:45:46,640 --> 01:45:50,400
Speaker 1: and killed an average bear, or the Clay Knucom that

1932
01:45:50,720 --> 01:45:54,880
Speaker 1: last year hunted in Oklahoma and killed afty pound bear

1933
01:45:54,960 --> 01:45:59,360
Speaker 1: over bait. Uh. I would not have shot anything less

1934
01:45:59,360 --> 01:46:01,400
Speaker 1: than that bear. I mean a lot of people would

1935
01:46:01,400 --> 01:46:03,200
Speaker 1: look at that and say you are trophy hunting sucker,

1936
01:46:03,360 --> 01:46:07,679
Speaker 1: And I'd say, well, who's the conservation hero? Me taking

1937
01:46:07,720 --> 01:46:10,240
Speaker 1: out that old bear has contributed to the gene pool,

1938
01:46:10,280 --> 01:46:12,439
Speaker 1: lived a happy, full life in a wild place in

1939
01:46:12,520 --> 01:46:17,240
Speaker 1: southeast Oklahoma. Or the guy that you know, yeah shot

1940
01:46:17,320 --> 01:46:19,200
Speaker 1: the first one that he saw, yeah, and the and

1941
01:46:19,280 --> 01:46:21,240
Speaker 1: that that just goes back to like what we're talking

1942
01:46:21,240 --> 01:46:25,000
Speaker 1: about before, about the pursuit and your personal feelings, your

1943
01:46:25,040 --> 01:46:27,880
Speaker 1: personal ethics, and the situational ethics, and wins it about

1944
01:46:27,880 --> 01:46:31,800
Speaker 1: the animal, wins it about I would say, and we'll

1945
01:46:31,840 --> 01:46:35,320
Speaker 1: start this by saying, we're gonna eliminate all the assholes

1946
01:46:35,360 --> 01:46:38,120
Speaker 1: from the conversation. Say like we're we're thinking of this

1947
01:46:38,439 --> 01:46:43,439
Speaker 1: conversation like a responsible practitioner, of of a hunting style

1948
01:46:44,120 --> 01:46:46,320
Speaker 1: that values the animal they're hunting. Just start with that.

1949
01:46:46,600 --> 01:46:48,880
Speaker 1: We'll start with that. Because if there's somebody's an asshole,

1950
01:46:48,880 --> 01:46:50,280
Speaker 1: they can do either one of these two things. They

1951
01:46:50,320 --> 01:46:52,439
Speaker 1: give tennis a bad name. They played tennis. So if

1952
01:46:52,479 --> 01:46:54,160
Speaker 1: somebody's an asshole, they could spot and stalk like one,

1953
01:46:54,240 --> 01:46:56,760
Speaker 1: and they could like one. But if you're if you're

1954
01:46:56,760 --> 01:46:58,800
Speaker 1: a valuable if you're value a hunter, I would say that.

1955
01:46:59,120 --> 01:47:01,360
Speaker 1: And I've been around my handah just for one bear season,

1956
01:47:02,280 --> 01:47:04,519
Speaker 1: and I would say that within within the community here,

1957
01:47:04,560 --> 01:47:07,760
Speaker 1: there's less there's there really is truly less of a

1958
01:47:08,160 --> 01:47:11,240
Speaker 1: of an idea that of being selected around spot and stalk.

1959
01:47:11,280 --> 01:47:13,880
Speaker 1: You're looking for a nice mature bear. But it's not

1960
01:47:14,080 --> 01:47:16,240
Speaker 1: like you're you're and you wanted to be a boar.

1961
01:47:16,320 --> 01:47:18,400
Speaker 1: You don't want to be a South cubs. But there

1962
01:47:18,520 --> 01:47:21,000
Speaker 1: isn't the same structure around that as when you're sitting

1963
01:47:21,040 --> 01:47:24,800
Speaker 1: over bait and you're looking at uh animals as you

1964
01:47:24,880 --> 01:47:27,360
Speaker 1: did in Oklahoma. There just isn't the same structure. It's

1965
01:47:27,360 --> 01:47:29,600
Speaker 1: a different structure. It's also just a different type of

1966
01:47:29,680 --> 01:47:33,160
Speaker 1: pursuit altogether. You're still looking for a big, mature boar.

1967
01:47:33,520 --> 01:47:36,439
Speaker 1: But I have bear hunted and made I've made mistakes

1968
01:47:36,520 --> 01:47:39,920
Speaker 1: myself around bears, spotting stalk and thinking well, that's a

1969
01:47:40,000 --> 01:47:41,920
Speaker 1: nice boar, and then he's happened to be standing by

1970
01:47:41,960 --> 01:47:45,400
Speaker 1: a weird looking thing a brush. And I guarantee there's

1971
01:47:45,600 --> 01:47:48,000
Speaker 1: you know, plenty of hunters that have pulled the trigger

1972
01:47:48,080 --> 01:47:49,519
Speaker 1: on a spot in stock hunt with a rifle and

1973
01:47:49,600 --> 01:47:52,479
Speaker 1: walked over and been very disappointed as to what they say.

1974
01:47:52,640 --> 01:47:57,200
Speaker 1: That argument, that statement is really just made to this

1975
01:47:57,439 --> 01:48:01,800
Speaker 1: idea which I think is pretty alive in that, you know,

1976
01:48:02,040 --> 01:48:05,519
Speaker 1: spotting stock hunting, it's kind of the elite, like the

1977
01:48:05,680 --> 01:48:08,160
Speaker 1: right way to hunt. I feel, and I may have

1978
01:48:08,280 --> 01:48:13,200
Speaker 1: a kind of a persecution mentality and happy with that.

1979
01:48:13,840 --> 01:48:16,800
Speaker 1: I have done bait baited hunting, I've done spot and

1980
01:48:16,840 --> 01:48:18,800
Speaker 1: stock hunting. I've done all that stuff as you have.

1981
01:48:20,160 --> 01:48:22,000
Speaker 1: There was a point in time where I thought, I'm

1982
01:48:22,040 --> 01:48:25,000
Speaker 1: not gonna bait hunever bait anymore personally. It just doesn't

1983
01:48:25,080 --> 01:48:28,439
Speaker 1: give me the value. And then I started to think of, Okay,

1984
01:48:28,479 --> 01:48:30,400
Speaker 1: why am I saying that? What What am I? What

1985
01:48:30,520 --> 01:48:33,800
Speaker 1: am I saying that for? And and then I was like, well,

1986
01:48:33,840 --> 01:48:38,120
Speaker 1: you know what, Maybe it's because when I travel, like

1987
01:48:38,400 --> 01:48:40,840
Speaker 1: a lot of times i'm bear hunting. Before I moved

1988
01:48:40,840 --> 01:48:43,120
Speaker 1: to Montana, I would have to travel to hunt, right.

1989
01:48:43,200 --> 01:48:45,719
Speaker 1: So when I travel to hunt, I want to see country.

1990
01:48:46,240 --> 01:48:49,000
Speaker 1: I want to see I want to see animals. I

1991
01:48:49,040 --> 01:48:50,240
Speaker 1: want to be out in it. I don't want to

1992
01:48:50,280 --> 01:48:53,720
Speaker 1: be sitting in a box blind looking at a barrel, right.

1993
01:48:54,200 --> 01:48:56,240
Speaker 1: And so I started then I started thinking, well, it's

1994
01:48:56,280 --> 01:49:00,400
Speaker 1: not baiting that I don't necessarily I'm not going, Yeah,

1995
01:49:00,800 --> 01:49:05,600
Speaker 1: it's it's it's a situation I was in the totality

1996
01:49:05,680 --> 01:49:07,920
Speaker 1: of the hunt. Yeah, And so what baiting provide doesn't

1997
01:49:07,920 --> 01:49:10,240
Speaker 1: provide the things I'm looking for. And that's where me

1998
01:49:10,360 --> 01:49:12,320
Speaker 1: talking about I kind of live in two different worlds,

1999
01:49:12,760 --> 01:49:15,880
Speaker 1: two totally different mind frames. When we're baiting bears and stuff.

2000
01:49:15,920 --> 01:49:18,640
Speaker 1: It's with the kids and it's it's like, I don't know,

2001
01:49:18,680 --> 01:49:22,160
Speaker 1: it's it's it's a totally different animal than when I

2002
01:49:22,320 --> 01:49:24,720
Speaker 1: go on a spot in stock hunt in Montana or

2003
01:49:24,760 --> 01:49:27,040
Speaker 1: in Arkansas. And and that's okay for me. Yeah, that

2004
01:49:27,120 --> 01:49:29,439
Speaker 1: can be thatmplex and that's that's to me. It's like

2005
01:49:29,520 --> 01:49:31,519
Speaker 1: when but when I moved to Montana. Now I'm like, wait,

2006
01:49:32,200 --> 01:49:33,920
Speaker 1: I have this. I can go out in my back

2007
01:49:34,000 --> 01:49:36,000
Speaker 1: door and hunt bears. I can do it right now.

2008
01:49:36,040 --> 01:49:37,680
Speaker 1: I gotta bear taking my pocket. I could walk out

2009
01:49:37,720 --> 01:49:40,080
Speaker 1: there and go try to find a bear that's getting

2010
01:49:40,080 --> 01:49:43,600
Speaker 1: ready for hibern nation and whackle um as long as

2011
01:49:43,600 --> 01:49:47,040
Speaker 1: he was black. Uh, I could do that. That's so

2012
01:49:47,160 --> 01:49:51,120
Speaker 1: that changes my whole view of bear. Now bear hunting

2013
01:49:51,200 --> 01:49:53,559
Speaker 1: is a local phenomenon for me. I don't have When

2014
01:49:53,600 --> 01:49:55,600
Speaker 1: I was living in Texas, I couldn't go on a

2015
01:49:55,680 --> 01:49:59,519
Speaker 1: black bear. And so it's it just changed that that

2016
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:01,439
Speaker 1: in and of itself changes the way that I see

2017
01:50:01,479 --> 01:50:04,280
Speaker 1: all these things. Right, and so the fact that you

2018
01:50:04,400 --> 01:50:06,439
Speaker 1: can it's legal for you to bait bears on private

2019
01:50:06,479 --> 01:50:08,640
Speaker 1: property where you live, you can go and do that.

2020
01:50:08,760 --> 01:50:11,720
Speaker 1: It changes the way you see other bear hunting. I'm sure.

2021
01:50:12,080 --> 01:50:14,519
Speaker 1: So I think I had to just realize that it wasn't.

2022
01:50:14,680 --> 01:50:17,519
Speaker 1: I wasn't so I wasn't so against baiting. It wasn't

2023
01:50:17,560 --> 01:50:19,519
Speaker 1: like sitting by a bait was the worst thing in

2024
01:50:19,560 --> 01:50:22,240
Speaker 1: the world. I enjoyed it a lot, a hunted bait

2025
01:50:23,160 --> 01:50:25,240
Speaker 1: with some guys up in Alberta, where we would be

2026
01:50:25,320 --> 01:50:27,360
Speaker 1: standing sitting there with a bow in my hand and

2027
01:50:27,439 --> 01:50:30,479
Speaker 1: there are fourteen black bears within fifty yards of me. What,

2028
01:50:30,680 --> 01:50:33,240
Speaker 1: let me ask you this, what other hunting experience would

2029
01:50:33,240 --> 01:50:37,240
Speaker 1: be anything remotely like that? It was? It was other world.

2030
01:50:37,240 --> 01:50:39,160
Speaker 1: I was sitting there with Cam Cam Hagnes, I'm sitting

2031
01:50:39,240 --> 01:50:42,559
Speaker 1: with Campaigns. He's an insane person. He he had already

2032
01:50:42,600 --> 01:50:44,560
Speaker 1: killed his bear. He was there with a knife and

2033
01:50:44,640 --> 01:50:46,800
Speaker 1: he was just like, bears are walking five yards from

2034
01:50:46,840 --> 01:50:48,320
Speaker 1: us and he's sitting there with a knife. I'm like,

2035
01:50:48,400 --> 01:50:52,560
Speaker 1: this guy's he's insane. I love him, but it's like that.

2036
01:50:52,760 --> 01:50:54,439
Speaker 1: That for me was it was a great experience. And

2037
01:50:54,640 --> 01:50:57,519
Speaker 1: every night we went out and sat in Alberta, we

2038
01:50:57,640 --> 01:51:00,240
Speaker 1: there was there were a bunch of bears. We got

2039
01:51:00,320 --> 01:51:02,479
Speaker 1: to watch them. I got to see how they acted.

2040
01:51:02,560 --> 01:51:04,599
Speaker 1: They get to learn about him. So look, there's there's

2041
01:51:04,600 --> 01:51:07,240
Speaker 1: a ton of value in that and I travel to

2042
01:51:07,320 --> 01:51:08,800
Speaker 1: go and do that. So there's a ton of value

2043
01:51:08,840 --> 01:51:11,840
Speaker 1: in that um And so I would just say, as

2044
01:51:11,880 --> 01:51:14,160
Speaker 1: people are thinking about this, think about kind of what

2045
01:51:14,800 --> 01:51:17,880
Speaker 1: what you're really after and whether baiting is just kind

2046
01:51:17,880 --> 01:51:21,680
Speaker 1: of like shifting your the hunting narrative for you on

2047
01:51:21,800 --> 01:51:25,200
Speaker 1: a particular hunt. And the thing is is people, not

2048
01:51:25,360 --> 01:51:27,960
Speaker 1: everybody has to hunt bear ever bait. And I think

2049
01:51:28,040 --> 01:51:31,880
Speaker 1: that's there's the complex human gymnastics that people have to do,

2050
01:51:32,439 --> 01:51:36,400
Speaker 1: which is a joke. But to think that you could

2051
01:51:36,439 --> 01:51:40,439
Speaker 1: support something that you may never do for the sake

2052
01:51:40,520 --> 01:51:43,639
Speaker 1: of something much bigger, But that man, that's the That's

2053
01:51:43,720 --> 01:51:47,160
Speaker 1: what we're saying, is that man, this is way bigger

2054
01:51:47,600 --> 01:51:49,479
Speaker 1: than just I don't want to hunt bear every baiter

2055
01:51:49,560 --> 01:51:52,960
Speaker 1: I do we need? And that's the unification point that

2056
01:51:53,160 --> 01:51:57,599
Speaker 1: can we talked about earlier, is that man, everybody needs

2057
01:51:57,680 --> 01:52:01,960
Speaker 1: to gather around all forms of legal hunting. I mean,

2058
01:52:02,400 --> 01:52:04,439
Speaker 1: and I really believe that. I mean, you know you

2059
01:52:04,560 --> 01:52:06,880
Speaker 1: can still well I won't go into that there. There's

2060
01:52:07,040 --> 01:52:11,520
Speaker 1: there's very few like archaic like hunting laws or regulations.

2061
01:52:11,840 --> 01:52:14,640
Speaker 1: None I have. I have none personally that I just

2062
01:52:14,680 --> 01:52:16,640
Speaker 1: look at and go like, man, they shouldn't be doing that.

2063
01:52:16,960 --> 01:52:20,559
Speaker 1: I mean maybe a hundred years ago. Yeah, I mean

2064
01:52:20,880 --> 01:52:26,479
Speaker 1: market hunting or you know what, I don't whatever. Just man,

2065
01:52:26,640 --> 01:52:31,000
Speaker 1: that's that's the that's the statement. And and don't give

2066
01:52:31,160 --> 01:52:35,040
Speaker 1: in to the propaganda, the emotional propaganda that a bear

2067
01:52:35,160 --> 01:52:38,680
Speaker 1: is any different than the deer. He is not. He

2068
01:52:39,160 --> 01:52:42,160
Speaker 1: you know, uh, he does not have the ability to reason.

2069
01:52:42,880 --> 01:52:45,360
Speaker 1: He does not have the ability to have his feelings

2070
01:52:45,439 --> 01:52:49,040
Speaker 1: hurt because he thinks that someone's baiting him into kill him.

2071
01:52:50,640 --> 01:52:54,799
Speaker 1: I read a book called evidence based Horsemanship. It actually

2072
01:52:54,880 --> 01:52:58,200
Speaker 1: helped me in my hunting. This whole thing of inside

2073
01:52:58,240 --> 01:53:01,639
Speaker 1: of training horses and mules and different things. People, people

2074
01:53:01,920 --> 01:53:07,519
Speaker 1: are massively uh, they assign human characteristics to animals big

2075
01:53:07,600 --> 01:53:09,960
Speaker 1: time inside of training, Like that horse likes me, That

2076
01:53:10,080 --> 01:53:12,640
Speaker 1: horse doesn't like me, That horse doesn't like it when

2077
01:53:12,680 --> 01:53:16,160
Speaker 1: I do this, that horse thinks this that in you know,

2078
01:53:16,479 --> 01:53:20,280
Speaker 1: like humans have this developed frontal lobe. Animals don't have

2079
01:53:20,560 --> 01:53:24,679
Speaker 1: a place in their mind too to have their feelings hurt.

2080
01:53:25,120 --> 01:53:27,439
Speaker 1: That that that may seem disconnected from what we're talking about,

2081
01:53:27,439 --> 01:53:29,639
Speaker 1: but I think from when you start talking about baiting bears,

2082
01:53:29,680 --> 01:53:32,000
Speaker 1: when we start talking about charismatic megafana, when you start

2083
01:53:32,040 --> 01:53:34,840
Speaker 1: talking about an animal that has been so uh, what's

2084
01:53:34,880 --> 01:53:40,120
Speaker 1: the word I'm looking for, anthromorph anthropomorphized that you start

2085
01:53:40,400 --> 01:53:44,360
Speaker 1: thinking that this animal is different than other things. He's not.

2086
01:53:44,720 --> 01:53:47,120
Speaker 1: And that's why the words that's why the word charismatic

2087
01:53:47,600 --> 01:53:52,240
Speaker 1: is more important there. Like animals, a lot of animals

2088
01:53:52,280 --> 01:53:57,200
Speaker 1: exhibit different forms of sentience, different forms of charisma, right,

2089
01:53:57,360 --> 01:53:59,920
Speaker 1: different forms. A lot of them treat their young different

2090
01:54:00,360 --> 01:54:03,559
Speaker 1: a lot of them treat their mates differently. I mean,

2091
01:54:03,680 --> 01:54:07,799
Speaker 1: there's a lot of examples of what we would discern

2092
01:54:07,920 --> 01:54:10,759
Speaker 1: is emotion in the animal world. But as you said,

2093
01:54:11,600 --> 01:54:14,600
Speaker 1: it's not. But even if there was, even if we

2094
01:54:14,800 --> 01:54:16,880
Speaker 1: like we could just say, oh, there definitely is, then

2095
01:54:17,000 --> 01:54:18,880
Speaker 1: the natural world doesn't give a fuck about it. It

2096
01:54:18,960 --> 01:54:22,240
Speaker 1: doesn't care. It just doesn't care. I mean, like, if

2097
01:54:22,280 --> 01:54:25,080
Speaker 1: that grizzly bear really loves it's two cubs, that's not

2098
01:54:25,120 --> 01:54:28,280
Speaker 1: going to stop the natural world from ripping them apart

2099
01:54:28,400 --> 01:54:30,680
Speaker 1: if it has to, right, It's not gonna stop some

2100
01:54:30,800 --> 01:54:33,280
Speaker 1: other predator or some male grizzly bearer from ripping those

2101
01:54:33,320 --> 01:54:35,720
Speaker 1: cubs apart to bring that south back into heat so

2102
01:54:35,840 --> 01:54:38,080
Speaker 1: he can get what he wants. It's a regard even

2103
01:54:38,200 --> 01:54:41,520
Speaker 1: if you know I think you're right. I think animals

2104
01:54:41,600 --> 01:54:45,240
Speaker 1: don't have the emotions. They do display characteristics of emotion,

2105
01:54:45,360 --> 01:54:47,000
Speaker 1: but I don't think they have the capability for the

2106
01:54:47,120 --> 01:54:49,800
Speaker 1: depth of emotion that we assigned to them. And so

2107
01:54:50,400 --> 01:54:53,600
Speaker 1: here we are left with this. Even if even if

2108
01:54:53,840 --> 01:54:56,600
Speaker 1: what I just said was flat wrong, and there are

2109
01:54:56,680 --> 01:55:00,080
Speaker 1: some there's you know, dolphins and other creators that have

2110
01:55:00,080 --> 01:55:04,280
Speaker 1: have more sentence than others, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

2111
01:55:04,960 --> 01:55:08,200
Speaker 1: Does killer well doesn't care if that dolphin uh likes

2112
01:55:08,240 --> 01:55:10,440
Speaker 1: you or hates you or it doesn't matter. And so

2113
01:55:11,440 --> 01:55:14,120
Speaker 1: we have the capacity to to reason all these things

2114
01:55:14,200 --> 01:55:17,280
Speaker 1: and understand them. But our capacity to reason doesn't, like

2115
01:55:17,400 --> 01:55:21,320
Speaker 1: you just said, change what's happening outside with these in

2116
01:55:21,400 --> 01:55:24,360
Speaker 1: the natural world. It just doesn't. In wild places, our

2117
01:55:24,440 --> 01:55:28,520
Speaker 1: reasoning doesn't change anything. And you know, inside of hunting,

2118
01:55:29,000 --> 01:55:33,400
Speaker 1: I mean, the baseline human architecture that has that has

2119
01:55:33,480 --> 01:55:38,200
Speaker 1: scripted the last thousands and thousands of years is that

2120
01:55:38,720 --> 01:55:42,640
Speaker 1: human life is different than animal life. I mean, like

2121
01:55:43,280 --> 01:55:46,880
Speaker 1: we've as hunters, we've got to say that, uh, you know,

2122
01:55:47,040 --> 01:55:51,640
Speaker 1: like the you know, every predator makes a decision that

2123
01:55:51,800 --> 01:55:54,040
Speaker 1: his life is actually more valuable than the life of

2124
01:55:54,040 --> 01:55:56,400
Speaker 1: the animal that he's taken. Yeah, well, let me let

2125
01:55:56,440 --> 01:55:58,400
Speaker 1: me ask you this because I think about this often.

2126
01:55:59,160 --> 01:56:01,560
Speaker 1: Maybe end with this be a good one, then with um,

2127
01:56:02,240 --> 01:56:05,360
Speaker 1: it's a chicken or the egg situation. Do we think

2128
01:56:05,480 --> 01:56:08,320
Speaker 1: this way because we're hunters? Or are we hunters because

2129
01:56:08,400 --> 01:56:12,600
Speaker 1: we think this way? Because very much of what I

2130
01:56:12,720 --> 01:56:15,320
Speaker 1: try to avoid my life is having this like set

2131
01:56:15,360 --> 01:56:18,240
Speaker 1: of ideologies and reasonings that are built by what like

2132
01:56:18,400 --> 01:56:20,840
Speaker 1: what I want the world to be. I love hunting.

2133
01:56:21,080 --> 01:56:23,320
Speaker 1: Do I think about animals this way because I love hunting?

2134
01:56:23,720 --> 01:56:27,680
Speaker 1: Or do or at the same time, do I hunt

2135
01:56:27,760 --> 01:56:30,080
Speaker 1: because I think about animals this way? And I think

2136
01:56:30,160 --> 01:56:32,040
Speaker 1: that's when you talk to animal rights folks, you start

2137
01:56:32,120 --> 01:56:34,640
Speaker 1: to have to answer that question for yourself. I think

2138
01:56:34,840 --> 01:56:38,080
Speaker 1: lots of animal rights folks don't look at that question.

2139
01:56:38,120 --> 01:56:40,920
Speaker 1: Do I think do I love animals because I or

2140
01:56:41,000 --> 01:56:43,080
Speaker 1: do I not hunt because I love animals? Or do

2141
01:56:43,200 --> 01:56:45,240
Speaker 1: I love animals because I don't kill them? And I

2142
01:56:45,360 --> 01:56:50,000
Speaker 1: think for most of my interaction with rights folks and

2143
01:56:50,000 --> 01:56:52,960
Speaker 1: anti hunters that have been very genuine, I find that

2144
01:56:53,200 --> 01:56:58,080
Speaker 1: they are applying their worldview to what they see, rather

2145
01:56:58,160 --> 01:57:00,640
Speaker 1: than building their worldview off of what is real. And

2146
01:57:00,800 --> 01:57:03,480
Speaker 1: so we want to ask ourselves the same thing. So yeah,

2147
01:57:04,520 --> 01:57:07,120
Speaker 1: well I think you said it. Well, So I mean,

2148
01:57:07,160 --> 01:57:09,600
Speaker 1: do you think like and that it's just a good

2149
01:57:09,640 --> 01:57:11,520
Speaker 1: way to kind of self actualize a little bit and

2150
01:57:11,680 --> 01:57:14,680
Speaker 1: be like, Am I saying all this because I want

2151
01:57:14,840 --> 01:57:17,920
Speaker 1: I like to bear like to to bait bears. Am

2152
01:57:17,960 --> 01:57:19,480
Speaker 1: I just trying to reason my way into some sh

2153
01:57:19,560 --> 01:57:22,560
Speaker 1: it I like? Or is it really what I say

2154
01:57:22,600 --> 01:57:24,640
Speaker 1: it is? You know, I don't know that I have

2155
01:57:24,760 --> 01:57:30,600
Speaker 1: a really good rebuttal to that other than that, and

2156
01:57:30,680 --> 01:57:32,920
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not charging you with that. Well no, no.

2157
01:57:33,720 --> 01:57:35,280
Speaker 1: I said this the other day as I listened to

2158
01:57:35,400 --> 01:57:39,200
Speaker 1: Your Your Your podcast with the other guy Berry very

2159
01:57:39,240 --> 01:57:42,160
Speaker 1: gay Gilbert. You know, some of the things he said.

2160
01:57:42,400 --> 01:57:45,800
Speaker 1: I think he had a point. And all I know

2161
01:57:46,280 --> 01:57:53,960
Speaker 1: is that the way that we view hunting and this

2162
01:57:54,360 --> 01:58:00,120
Speaker 1: the way that we navigate it is so legitimate that

2163
01:58:00,240 --> 01:58:03,320
Speaker 1: there's no way that it's wrong. It doesn't mean it's

2164
01:58:03,360 --> 01:58:05,640
Speaker 1: the only way. Like when I listened to Berry, like,

2165
01:58:06,400 --> 01:58:09,400
Speaker 1: I had this thought, like, I mean, maybe there's some

2166
01:58:10,280 --> 01:58:12,760
Speaker 1: there's a there's a there's a space for saying I'm

2167
01:58:12,800 --> 01:58:16,480
Speaker 1: not legitimizing everything at all. Any A lot of the stuff,

2168
01:58:16,640 --> 01:58:18,400
Speaker 1: A few things he said. I was like, well, that's

2169
01:58:18,440 --> 01:58:21,280
Speaker 1: his thought. I guess he has the right to think that. UM,

2170
01:58:22,040 --> 01:58:27,600
Speaker 1: good for you. But the we are our our way

2171
01:58:27,680 --> 01:58:32,440
Speaker 1: of doing things is it's legitimate, it makes sense, it's rational,

2172
01:58:32,600 --> 01:58:37,120
Speaker 1: it's congruent with our humanity, it's working, it's sustainable, it's

2173
01:58:37,280 --> 01:58:40,600
Speaker 1: uh yeah, So I mean I think I think it

2174
01:58:40,680 --> 01:58:43,800
Speaker 1: makes sense. Does everybody need debate bears? No? Does everybody

2175
01:58:43,840 --> 01:58:46,000
Speaker 1: need to hunt like me and you hunt? No? Probably not.

2176
01:58:46,240 --> 01:58:50,480
Speaker 1: They won't. UM, But I don't think we're building a

2177
01:58:50,600 --> 01:58:53,640
Speaker 1: narrative to just fit our lives. I think it's too

2178
01:58:53,720 --> 01:58:57,600
Speaker 1: it's too congruent with what's happened for the last fifteen

2179
01:58:57,640 --> 01:59:01,200
Speaker 1: thousand years. And I'm I I realize these things in

2180
01:59:01,280 --> 01:59:05,200
Speaker 1: my own life because I'm able to articulate to other

2181
01:59:05,240 --> 01:59:08,400
Speaker 1: people and make them understand them. And like, I have

2182
01:59:08,480 --> 01:59:10,520
Speaker 1: family members that don't hunt, if they want to, if

2183
01:59:10,520 --> 01:59:12,720
Speaker 1: they come and ask me questions, I can articulate what

2184
01:59:12,840 --> 01:59:15,440
Speaker 1: I'm talking about and they understand it almost immediately and

2185
01:59:15,560 --> 01:59:18,240
Speaker 1: get what I get. And so that's my proof. My

2186
01:59:18,320 --> 01:59:20,960
Speaker 1: proof is that I can explain this, and other people

2187
01:59:21,000 --> 01:59:22,760
Speaker 1: that don't hold my same value system is gonna be

2188
01:59:22,760 --> 01:59:25,360
Speaker 1: like I get what you're saying. So as long as

2189
01:59:25,360 --> 01:59:27,600
Speaker 1: I'm able to do that. The question I just pose

2190
01:59:27,680 --> 01:59:30,040
Speaker 1: is like an unanswerable question. You know, you're not really sure,

2191
01:59:30,720 --> 01:59:32,920
Speaker 1: like why you're doing what you're doing. A lot of times,

2192
01:59:32,960 --> 01:59:35,640
Speaker 1: like you said, like you we're always not. We we

2193
01:59:35,800 --> 01:59:38,320
Speaker 1: end up really connecting to something and then out understanding

2194
01:59:38,360 --> 01:59:40,200
Speaker 1: how far we carry it, you know, and how much

2195
01:59:40,240 --> 01:59:43,240
Speaker 1: we carry within ourselves. So that may be a little

2196
01:59:43,280 --> 01:59:47,400
Speaker 1: too deep for morning podcast, but I think it's it's

2197
01:59:47,400 --> 01:59:49,560
Speaker 1: worth it's worth asking because I've found it to be

2198
01:59:50,960 --> 01:59:53,320
Speaker 1: the biggest criticism and why I think the animal rights

2199
01:59:53,360 --> 01:59:57,440
Speaker 1: thing will just eventually shrivel up and die. Um, it's

2200
01:59:57,480 --> 02:00:00,680
Speaker 1: just because it's not unless the whole and less and

2201
02:00:00,800 --> 02:00:04,560
Speaker 1: I just don't think our entire society will will devolve

2202
02:00:04,720 --> 02:00:08,240
Speaker 1: into people that are applying what we think to the

2203
02:00:08,320 --> 02:00:11,920
Speaker 1: world rather than That's why our voice has to just

2204
02:00:12,000 --> 02:00:14,520
Speaker 1: get so much stronger. It really does, because in a

2205
02:00:14,600 --> 02:00:20,080
Speaker 1: world of chaos and craziness and in congruency with the

2206
02:00:20,240 --> 02:00:24,200
Speaker 1: architecture of this planet like we are, voice has to

2207
02:00:24,200 --> 02:00:28,560
Speaker 1: become strong. I mean, and uh, because it's just the

2208
02:00:29,080 --> 02:00:34,040
Speaker 1: most simple principle is that man, we've been hunting for

2209
02:00:34,120 --> 02:00:36,880
Speaker 1: a long time. We've got to gather meet for our families.

2210
02:00:37,360 --> 02:00:41,200
Speaker 1: It's ancient and honorable, it's sustainable. If there were no

2211
02:00:41,320 --> 02:00:43,520
Speaker 1: black bears, I would have no right to stand in

2212
02:00:43,680 --> 02:00:46,040
Speaker 1: here and say, let's bait him and kill him. None.

2213
02:00:46,760 --> 02:00:49,840
Speaker 1: But black bears just happened to be thriving right now,

2214
02:00:50,240 --> 02:00:53,160
Speaker 1: not in spite of hunting, but because of hunting, and

2215
02:00:53,320 --> 02:00:55,280
Speaker 1: baiting is a part of that. Baiting is a massive

2216
02:00:55,320 --> 02:01:04,280
Speaker 1: part of it. Beautiful, well said, thank you. I guess

2217
02:01:04,360 --> 02:01:08,080
Speaker 1: I grew up. That's it. That's all another episode of

2218
02:01:08,120 --> 02:01:11,800
Speaker 1: hunting Collectives in the books. Thanks to Sam Soholt. Stamp

2219
02:01:11,840 --> 02:01:16,000
Speaker 1: it forward. Go to Sam's instagram at same sohol venmo

2220
02:01:16,520 --> 02:01:20,480
Speaker 1: that's Sam Soholt, and and participate and stamp before it's

2221
02:01:20,520 --> 02:01:22,920
Speaker 1: twenty five. That's what it costs you, and it goes

2222
02:01:23,040 --> 02:01:25,880
Speaker 1: to a bigger cause than you probably realize. So go

2223
02:01:26,200 --> 02:01:30,400
Speaker 1: and do that right now. Also thanks to Clay Newcome

2224
02:01:31,440 --> 02:01:33,960
Speaker 1: go check out his YouTube page. Go check out Bear

2225
02:01:34,040 --> 02:01:37,160
Speaker 1: Hunting Magazine. Think about the concepts that we talked about

2226
02:01:38,120 --> 02:01:41,960
Speaker 1: on baiting. It's very important, um Fiel, that that kind

2227
02:01:41,960 --> 02:01:43,800
Speaker 1: of went. It went off of baiting for much of

2228
02:01:43,840 --> 02:01:45,960
Speaker 1: the conversation. Did it not a little bit, but I

2229
02:01:46,040 --> 02:01:50,040
Speaker 1: think to the benefit of the conversation. Conversation, so I'm

2230
02:01:50,040 --> 02:01:52,680
Speaker 1: not gonna it's a great podcast. I'm not gonna end

2231
02:01:52,720 --> 02:01:54,960
Speaker 1: with any other Please to you all. The only thing

2232
02:01:55,040 --> 02:01:58,160
Speaker 1: that I want to say is, UM, shoot me an email.

2233
02:01:58,600 --> 02:02:01,280
Speaker 1: TC demediate dot com should be a message whenever you

2234
02:02:01,400 --> 02:02:04,040
Speaker 1: send something to Sam. I just want to hear about it. Um.

2235
02:02:04,320 --> 02:02:06,000
Speaker 1: I want to know that you did it, and it's

2236
02:02:06,000 --> 02:02:08,000
Speaker 1: important to me that you do. So if you ever

2237
02:02:08,080 --> 02:02:10,520
Speaker 1: did anything I ever asked of you, do this one thing.

2238
02:02:11,040 --> 02:02:12,840
Speaker 1: All right, We'll see you next time when the hunty collected.

2239
02:02:13,080 --> 02:02:17,440
Speaker 1: Bye long. Because I can't go a week without doing

2240
02:02:17,800 --> 02:02:31,000
Speaker 1: run oh withoubsolute run, bringing out, run wrong, drinking in

2241
02:02:31,160 --> 02:02:47,880
Speaker 1: and don't sitting at the possible would start this row

2242
02:02:47,880 --> 02:02:52,440
Speaker 1: whole root, feling lagging, hold on out, barrosh shoes all down.

2243
02:02:52,520 --> 02:02:52,960
Speaker 1: That one