1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:04,480 Speaker 1: Army training exercise lasting for two months across seven states 2 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: called jade Helm fifteen is underway. 3 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 2: So what is jade Helm fifteen. It's realistic military training 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 2: taking place simultaneously in seven states from southern California to Texas. 5 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:21,240 Speaker 2: Over eight weeks, the nation's elite special forces will practice 6 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:26,119 Speaker 2: unconventional warfare. Now to a Texas sized conspiracy theory that 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 2: an upcoming Pentagon training exercise is actually part of a 8 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 2: plan to impose martial. 9 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: Law, I do not trust the government that is in 10 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: power right now. 11 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 3: Conspiracy theorists went crazy, fearing the entire thing was actually 12 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 3: a guys to impose martial law, take guns and rights away. 13 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: I'm John Ceipher and I'm Jerry O'Shea. I served in 14 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: the CIA's Clandestine Service for twenty eight years, living undercover 15 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: all around the world. 16 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 3: And in my thirty three years with the CIA, I 17 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 3: served in Africa, Asia, Europe, and the Middle East. 18 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: And we don't usually look at it this way. We 19 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: created conspiracies. 20 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 3: In our operations. We got people to believe things that 21 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:07,320 Speaker 3: weren't true. 22 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: Now we're investigating the conspiracy theories we see in the 23 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: news almost every day. 24 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 3: Will break them down for you. To determine whether they 25 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 3: could be real or whether we're being manipulated. 26 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to Mission implausible. 27 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 4: John was saying, you have a story about a congressman. 28 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: The one thing I can say is that all CIA 29 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: people who worked overseas have lots of stories about lots 30 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:31,479 Speaker 1: of congressman senators. But this is a good one. 31 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 3: A congressman shows up. It's in a big European country, 32 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 3: and director's CIA gets a call from him and he's 33 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 3: really angry and he's like, how come you guys aren't 34 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 3: briefing me, and like, we don't even know he was 35 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 3: in country. So it turns out he was in another 36 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 3: city and his wife had to go for some sort 37 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 3: of medical procedure that he couldn't get in the US 38 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 3: experimental thing. I don't know. So in any case, this 39 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 3: guy had figured out that if he did a certain 40 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 3: amount of time every day, let's say a one hour, 41 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 3: if he was brief for one hour, he could write 42 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 3: off the whole trip and have the taxpayer pay for it, 43 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 3: because then it was official. And so he scheduled a 44 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 3: series of briefings on everything from soybeans to green energy 45 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 3: to everything, and eventually he gets around to well, I 46 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 3: need an intelligence brief because he wants to get at 47 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 3: least sixty minutes in. So he complains to the director 48 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 3: that how come I'm not getting an intelligence brief. We 49 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 3: didn't know he's there. So I jump on an airplane. 50 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 3: I fly off to this other city. I see him, 51 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 3: and just before we go into the bubble, right this 52 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 3: secure area where they tell the story, we're shaking hands, 53 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 3: he's talking. It's me and another agency guy, and we 54 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 3: walk into the bubble. We close the door and I 55 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 3: turn around and I'm about to like say, well, you know, sorry, sir. 56 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 3: I came down to his kirt because I could. He 57 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 3: sticks his finger under my nose and says, who the 58 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 3: fuck do you think you are? Nobody voted for you? 59 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,679 Speaker 3: How dare you? And this is a guy who regularly 60 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 3: talked about easting government money, fraud and abuse, and this 61 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 3: guy's committing fraud and abuse right. He's only there so 62 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 3: he gets a free hotel and free flight and free 63 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 3: food while he's there. And so I sit him down. 64 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 3: We talk about the terrorism stuff, and I'm twenty minutes 65 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 3: into my one hour briefing and I won't name the country, 66 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 3: but he says, so is there any Nazi architecture around 67 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 3: here that I could go look at at, Like, yeah, 68 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 3: there is, so I told him, like some places he 69 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 3: could go to visit Nazi architecture, you know, from Albert 70 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 3: Spear in the in this particular city, and he like 71 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 3: throws me out after like thirty minutes. 72 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: I've had lots of briefing with congressman and centers were 73 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: clearly that they were there to shop or they were there, yeah, 74 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: for some other reason, and they came for their briefing. 75 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: They're not the slightest bit interested. Sometimes they even know 76 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: what country they're in. I don't want to suggest that 77 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: for all of them, because sometimes some centers and congressmen 78 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: coming in they're very engaged. 79 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 3: Well most of them, I think are really well clued died. 80 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: So today we're going to talk about a conspiracy that 81 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: has the name jade Helm, about folks in Texas believing 82 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: that the federal government in the US Army and US 83 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: military might be involved in trying to essentially overthrow the 84 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: state government in Texas. And in fact, John Stewart did 85 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: a segment on this jade Helm military exercise while it 86 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: was happening. 87 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 2: Well, the military says, it's just training soldiers for the 88 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 2: realities of war. Critics say the army is preparing for 89 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 2: modern day martial law. 90 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 5: Some are calling it a Texas takeover. 91 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 6: You know who's calling it a Texas takeover? 92 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 4: Lone star lunatics. 93 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 6: There's no Texas takeover. The United States government already control 94 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 6: since like the eighteen forties, it's not like this is 95 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 6: being taken seriously by anyone who holds actual power. 96 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 7: On Tuesday, Governor Greg Abbott ordered the Texas State Guard 97 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 7: to monitor military personnel movements and training exercise schedules. 98 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 6: Oh dear lord, yet in other ways to Texas funds 99 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 6: that could have been spent on actual threats like your 100 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 6: infamous Chainsaw massacres. 101 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 3: And not only is the US military going to invade 102 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 3: Texas and parts of the Southwest, they're going to also 103 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 3: go around and collect everybody's guns. They were going to 104 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 3: create huge concentration camps. Yeah, basically all conspiratorial hell was 105 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 3: going to break loose. 106 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: I don't think there's a list of who has guns. 107 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,679 Speaker 1: I think that's actually a law in the United States 108 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 1: and certainly in Texas. So right, like go to everyone's. 109 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 8: House, Although in Texas isn't the list just everyone in Texas. 110 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 3: No, not just people, but like the friggin governor of 111 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 3: Texas and the Texas State legislature was buying into this. 112 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: Apparently there was a town hall meeting and bass drop 113 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: in which they shouted down an army colonel. They just 114 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: refused to believe anything he said. Here's a clip of that. 115 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 9: Well, Jaye Helm is simply just a challenging eight week 116 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 9: training exercise for unconventional warfare, and it's an exercise that 117 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 9: will be conducted throughout Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and Newahaw. 118 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 9: Jade Helm is United States Special Operations Command. It's a 119 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 9: sponsored exercise to improve Special Operations Forces unconventional warfare capability 120 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 9: as part of the national security strategy. 121 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 10: Right are the people's overwhelming opposition to this? Ours a 122 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 10: law program with the Commissioner's Court considered reversing their invitation 123 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 10: to these guys, and would. 124 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 2: The court be offended? 125 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: I told the colonel that I didn't believe. 126 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:27,239 Speaker 10: In the single word that he just said. 127 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 3: Thank you for your question. 128 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 9: This institution right here has been around for over two 129 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 9: hundred and forty years. I've transitioned in this uniform, various 130 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 9: shades of it under five presidents, all of it peacefully. 131 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 9: You may have issues with the federal government, you may 132 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 9: have issues with the administration, so be it okay. But 133 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 9: this institution right here has been with you for over 134 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 9: two hundred and forty year period. 135 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 3: So let's get into it with Dan the Moth from 136 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 3: the Washington Post. You are a distinguished journalist from the 137 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 3: Washington Post. You've reported from over thirty countries. You spent 138 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 3: a lot of time in one of my favorite places, Afghanistan, 139 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 3: embedded with the Marines. And I see you've also won 140 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 3: a Pulitzer as part of the team that did January sixth. 141 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 11: Yeah, I'm going on about closing on sixteen years of 142 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 11: covering the US military. I've been at the Post since 143 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 11: twenty fourteen, so I guess I'm going on almost ten there. 144 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: So Dan, can you just give us a quick overview 145 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: about the Jade Helm exercise and the conspiracy that came 146 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: out of that exercise. 147 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 11: It was a joint special operations exercise that would have 148 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 11: included forces for multiple services, was run by Army Special 149 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 11: Operations Command, twelve hundred people spread out of earned the 150 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 11: span of six seven eight states. So you're not talking 151 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 11: about an invasion force. Here, you're talking about a relatively 152 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 11: small force that gets spun around into preparation for martial law, 153 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 11: and this idea the President Obama was trying to take 154 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 11: over Texas or not leave the office. 155 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 3: But it also got wider than that, didn't it. I Mean, 156 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 3: we look at a lot of conspiracy theories on this podcast, 157 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 3: but this one particularly also got into serious political discussions 158 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 3: with the Texas State Legislature, the Texas governor saying he 159 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 3: was going to use the Texas State Militia to like 160 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 3: shadow or cover the US military to make sure they 161 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 3: didn't take over the country or take over Texas. You've 162 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 3: got people in Congress Louis Gohmer talking about this as 163 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 3: though it was serious. So what is your sense of 164 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 3: I'll say, people who should know better getting involved in 165 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 3: this and pandering or playing or believing it. 166 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 11: I think the discussion got broad enough where officials like 167 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 11: Governor Abbott chose the way in, and I think weighing 168 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 11: in would not have been a surprise. More the way 169 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 11: that he weighed in, raising eyebrows. 170 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 4: By directing the State Guard to monitor the operations. 171 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 12: Don't mess with Texas. Is Republican Governor Greg Gabbott's message 172 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 12: to the Pentagon. Abbott called out his state Guard to 173 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 12: keep an eye on US special operations sports is. The 174 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 12: governor says he wants to make sure Texans constitutional rights, 175 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 12: private property rights, and civil liberties will not be infringed 176 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 12: during an upcoming military war game called jade Helm fifteen. 177 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: You know, it's an American thing that's been long held 178 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: that there's this sort of fear of big government. But 179 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: in this case, it was some bad actors like Alex 180 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: Jones and others who pushed theories that this was a 181 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: psychological operation. It was to force citizens into internment camps, 182 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: to seize people's guns, to round up political dissidents. When 183 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: I think even other bad actors saw what was happening 184 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: in Texas and how this blew up into something really big. 185 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: Sort of the stupidity and damage that someone like Alex 186 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: Jones could create with these conspiracies. It seems to me 187 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: that in many ways it could have been a roadmap 188 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: for others like the Russians and foreign opportunities. This is 189 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: in twenty fift I think the Russians even created a 190 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: Facebook page. 191 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 8: Remember all those Facebook posts about jade Helm a few 192 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 8: years ago, it turns out some of them might have 193 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 8: been planted by Russia and. 194 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 4: The former ahead of the CIA things. 195 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 8: A Texas reaction may have been the green light for 196 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 8: Russia to wrap up campaigns in America. 197 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 13: That Russian bots in the American alt right media convinced 198 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 13: most many Texans was an Obama plan to round up 199 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 13: political dissidents. I'm figuring the Russians to saying we can 200 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 13: go big time. At that point, I think they made 201 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,439 Speaker 13: the decision we're going to play in the electoral process. 202 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: Let's take a break, we'll be right back. 203 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 3: And Rebecca So I did a simple back of the 204 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 3: envelope calculation. It's like fifteen different conspiracy theories that compete 205 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 3: and conflict. But one of the ones that seemed to 206 00:10:55,800 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 3: be really neuralgic was that foreign troops were being brought in, right, 207 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 3: And there were ten thousand Chinese troops working with the 208 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 3: American Special Forces hiding in abandoned Walmart And what they 209 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 3: intended to do was to start taking people's guns, right. 210 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 3: And I think Alex Jones said famously that HELM stood 211 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 3: for homeland eradication of local militias. And I did the calculation, 212 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 3: how many just in Texas. How many households are there? 213 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 3: There are eleven million. And if you've got ten thousand 214 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 3: Chinese troops and it takes you know, you've been with 215 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 3: the military lot. It takes five guys three hours to 216 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 3: clear a house looking for weapons. It would take thirty 217 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 3: years the Chinese troops that don't speak English, and the 218 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 3: US force is working somehow with these guys thirty years 219 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 3: to do this, and so on the face of it, 220 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 3: after like three minutes of thinking about it, this was 221 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 3: clearly ridiculous, and yet it had traction. 222 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean, I think in this case there was 223 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 11: a thought that President Obama was not worthy and not 224 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 11: just not trustworthy on oh hey, what are we going 225 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,199 Speaker 11: to do with health care, but untrustworthy on whether or 226 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 11: not he's going to leave office, whether or not he's 227 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 11: a threat of democracy. And I think some of this 228 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 11: was underpin by Race. 229 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: Dane. 230 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 3: You've spent a lot of time embedded with the US military, 231 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 3: especially the Marines. And I spent a lot of time 232 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 3: in Afghanistan too, up in the North and Kunar Province 233 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 3: and Nuristan, and then in Massari Shreef, and I got 234 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,079 Speaker 3: to know a lot of Jasak guys So I want 235 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 3: to throw a thought experiment at chif. So you're a 236 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 3: Jasak guy and you're a very professional military and you're 237 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 3: in the United States and you're doing one of these things, 238 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 3: and senior officer comes to you and says, Okay, here's 239 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 3: your mission. We're going to sneak in ten thousand Chinese 240 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 3: military guys who you're training to fight your entire life. 241 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 3: We're going to stick him in a Walmart. And your 242 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:57,079 Speaker 3: job is to take these guys and attack your fellow citizens. 243 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 3: So the thought experiment is, how would a group of 244 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 3: Jaysak guys react to something like that? Beyond you're fucking 245 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 3: shitting me right, You're going to be taking weapons away 246 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 3: from Americans citizens and going after militias with these Chinese 247 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,199 Speaker 3: soldiers who you can't speak because nobody speaks a common language. 248 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 3: How would that work? 249 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 11: So then you take that and this isn't just the military. 250 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 11: This is Marine raiders, Navy seals, Army Green Beret soldiers, 251 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 11: and all of a sudden, they're now going to be 252 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 11: the ones that are undermining the American experience. There's a 253 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 11: disconnect there. I never understood how the same group of 254 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 11: people who would mostly hold this group of people up 255 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 11: as an American hero and as an ideal would now 256 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 11: also say, oh, they're totally going to push us on 257 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,199 Speaker 11: the train cars with shackles and send us off to wherever. 258 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 3: There's no way they would follow those illegal orders. And 259 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 3: yet people seem to now, people who were very pro 260 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 3: military before are now entertaining thought that their heroes are 261 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 3: actually bad guys and militias are good guys. 262 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 11: You know, I think as time has progressed, you go 263 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 11: through the Trump administration and him very vocally calling out 264 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 11: general officers in terms that we don't typically hear in 265 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 11: polite company that I think was a shock to the system. 266 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 11: So I think you play that out now forward and 267 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 11: even something like the more recent hold on military promotions 268 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 11: that Senator Tupperville has. You know, these are death jockey generals. 269 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 11: I'm for the military, I'm just not for these death 270 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 11: jockey generals. 271 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 3: So concurrent with Jade Helm in twenty fifteen, there was 272 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 3: also another watershed wherein then presidential candidate Donald Trump said 273 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 3: of John McCain that he was a loser for being 274 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 3: shot down over North Vietnam and being tortured and being 275 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 3: held by the North Vietnamese. 276 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 11: But Frank, Frank, let me get to it. He hit me. 277 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 8: He's not a war hero, war euro, he's a war 278 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 8: He's a war hero because he was captured. 279 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 4: I like people that weren't captured. 280 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: Okay. 281 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 4: I hate to tell. 282 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: You, do you a ward that here's a war hero 283 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: because he was capture. 284 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 3: Okay. Enormous respect for John McCain, a genuine war hero 285 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 3: who suffered the rest of his life. He couldn't raise 286 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 3: his arms over his head, that he could be vilified, 287 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 3: that his military record could be trashed and discarded by 288 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 3: somebody who avoided the draft, which was another harbinger for 289 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 3: a change in way certain part of the electorate is 290 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 3: looking at the military. There's two elements of this. One 291 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 3: is you have to basically dehumanize and demonize the US military, 292 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 3: and you know there's two point eight million people work 293 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 3: for the federal government that somehow they are evil. I 294 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 3: think this was something that former NSA and CIA director 295 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 3: Hayden has talked about, that the Russians using jade helm 296 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 3: and other things as a way not so much to 297 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 3: push one particular conspiracy, but to question the very fact 298 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 3: of truth. What is true that you can't believe the 299 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 3: Washington Post. Right. See, Dan, you don't sit around with 300 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 3: your colleagues to write lies, right, You're trying to come 301 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 3: up with the truth, and you don't always get it 302 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 3: exactly right. And same inside of the intelligence community were 303 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 3: made up of people who are flawed. But there is 304 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 3: objective truth out there that there's a chipping away at 305 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 3: the trust, the cement that keeps our democracy function because 306 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 3: in it's atalitarian government, Putin doesn't need people to trust him. 307 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 3: They don't. They just fear him. 308 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: One of the things that was basis to the Jade 309 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: Helm conspiracy is that this was the government coming to 310 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: seize your guns. And literally just in the years prior 311 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: to this, it was a Republican talking point that Obama's 312 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: going to take your guns. What if he gets elected, 313 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: He's going to take your guns and take your guns. 314 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: And he went through his whole first term and there 315 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: was nothing related to taking anybody's guns. And then in 316 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: the lead up to the second term, is he's going 317 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: to take your guns. He's going to take your guns. 318 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: Not thinking that, you know, the first time that didn't happen, 319 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: and people bought into it again, Oh yeah, my god, 320 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: they're going to take our guns. And of course they 321 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: never took anybody's guns, and then jade Helm happens, are 322 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: they're going to take our guns and nobody takes your guns. 323 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: You know, some of these things are so ingrained it 324 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: seems that there is almost no way to talk people 325 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: out of them, or to reason in a rational way 326 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: and say this hasn't happened, it's not likely to happen. 327 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 11: I guess I would say this. It seems to me 328 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 11: that there are certain purveyors, those who perpetuate these kinds 329 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 11: of theories. Certain people just want to see these because 330 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 11: they're entertained by them, but they pass them on. And 331 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 11: when you keep passing them on, it's like, well, he 332 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 11: passed it on, he must believe it, even if they 333 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 11: were just kind of like causing mayhem for the heck 334 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 11: of it. Yeah, And I also think it probably depends 335 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 11: issue by issue, conspiracy theory by conspiracy theory, one might 336 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 11: sound crazy to you, the next one doesn't. I was 337 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 11: on a college campus when the envision of a rock 338 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 11: capen on a liberal campus, and I remember the conspiracy 339 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 11: theories on the other side, because sure WMD was. That 340 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 11: discussion was very real, very pointed, and then it became okay, 341 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 11: So what was the real motivation. 342 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,679 Speaker 1: Take the oil? You know, there are military exercises all 343 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: the time in the United States, which begs the question 344 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: why this one? And I think the answer has to 345 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: do with your reporting, is that some exercise maps somehow 346 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: were leaked into the public. And it's funny for me 347 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: because having been in the CIA going through our training program, 348 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 1: we do the same thing. We put people into exercises 349 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: as they prepare to go overseas, and we create maps 350 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 1: of false places that you pretend you're recruiting citizens of 351 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: and all this type of thing. And so why did 352 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: this one become the conspiracy when the other fifty didn't. 353 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 11: This is a new thing with a weird name that 354 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,479 Speaker 11: kind of was immediately weird because of the maps that 355 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 11: leaked out. 356 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: The name is cool. Jadehill is a cool name. 357 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 11: Let's say this was a West Coast exercise with the 358 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 11: military landing in California, which was labeled hostile. Has a 359 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 11: whole different feel at that point. If they're landing in 360 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 11: some liberal community off the coast there, it's kind of 361 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 11: hard to say they're trying to take your guns if 362 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 11: it's in a place where guns are not all that 363 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 11: popular in the first place, All right, right, right. 364 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,239 Speaker 3: So Governor Abbitt famously said he's going to employ the 365 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 3: Texas National Guard to keep tabs on the US. 366 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 11: Yeah, okay, his guard, if he will, his guard. They 367 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 11: used the State Guard largely as liaisons, but I. 368 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 1: Would suspect that there was a liaison already set up 369 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: and the military does this. Yeah, you know, for Abbott 370 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: to say that he needed to do it was probably 371 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: giving some oxygen to the fire that didn't need to 372 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 1: be given. 373 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 3: And then I just got to go back one last 374 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 3: time to logistics. Bring it. So you've been to Afghanistan, 375 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 3: Hellman Province. Right. I don't know how many Marines were 376 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 3: out there, but when we went to the military bases 377 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 3: up in Kunar, a couple hundred guys. The logistics of 378 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,400 Speaker 3: like feeding them and watering them is like enormous. If 379 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 3: you've got ten thousand Chinese soldiers hidden in a walmart, 380 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 3: how are you feeding these guys? What do you do 381 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 3: with a poop? What do you do with linguistics? What 382 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 3: do you do when somebody like gets away and goes 383 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 3: off to a bar and gets drunk in understanding what 384 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,919 Speaker 3: it takes to move fifty guys and their gear and 385 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 3: equipment and keeping them safe. Moving thousands of Chinese is 386 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 3: just so beyond the pale. I would just wish that 387 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 3: people would use their critical thinking to sit down and say, 388 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 3: what does it take to move like a baseball team 389 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 3: across the county for a week to play? And then 390 00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 3: multiply that times ten thousand? 391 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 11: Right? Can you even hold the neighborhood let alone? A 392 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 11: state let alone? Eight states, ten thousand, Chinese troops ten thousand, 393 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,400 Speaker 11: and any kind of troop maybe would a hold part 394 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 11: of the city maybe for. 395 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 3: A little while. 396 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 11: You're like just thinking about our own operations in you know, 397 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 11: various urban areas, like you need a whole lot of manpower. 398 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: I get a kick out of the fact that the 399 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: concern here was that the government was going to try 400 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: to take over Texas? Like has no one told them 401 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: that the government already has Texas? 402 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 5: Right, Let's take a breather and back in a moment, 403 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:40,120 Speaker 5: and we're back. 404 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 3: The conspiracy theory made a lot of predictions. None of 405 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 3: those came true. So how did they explain that? 406 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 11: One was? All the attention had prevented it? You know, 407 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,919 Speaker 11: the idea that this discussion had burst out into the 408 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 11: open and been exposed more or less taking credit for 409 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 11: the fact that it didn't happen. Another was that it 410 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 11: was never really supposed to be an effort in that 411 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 11: moment to perpetuate martial law. It was sort of a 412 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 11: more squishy, softer, smaller effort to do it someday in 413 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 11: the future, you know, rather than the big thing now. 414 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 11: It's preparing for the big thing two, five, ten years 415 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 11: down the road. 416 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 3: What would it take for the US military to take 417 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 3: over Texas or to actually do these things? 418 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 11: You know? The way these briefing slides read, it was 419 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 11: twelve hundred troops, give or take, and granted some number 420 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 11: of them would have been the elite, the best of 421 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 11: the best, but twelve hundred troops doesn't get you very 422 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 11: far in reality, no matter who they are. Think about 423 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 11: some of the American operations over the last ten, fifteen, 424 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 11: twenty years. I was embedded in a specific province in Afghanistan. 425 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 11: It's sort of the height of the surge there, or 426 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 11: twenty thousand marines in one province. So what are you 427 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 11: going to do with twelve hundred spread across eight states. 428 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 3: There's been a lot of spinoff conspiracy theories coming out 429 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 3: of jade Helm's what's your favorite flavor of jade Helm? 430 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 11: I think the one that caught me the coldest with 431 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 11: the idea that there were trains I think FEMA trained 432 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 11: FEMA somehow being a part of this with shackles on it, 433 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 11: and that you would just guide away American citizens who disagreed. 434 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 11: But just the idea that FEMA, the idea that they 435 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 11: would be pulled in and citizens would just be hurted away. 436 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 3: They could take those people and bring them some awful 437 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:24,400 Speaker 3: place like New Jersey. 438 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 1: Thank you very much for doing this and before you 439 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: continued reporting on this, and I think it's very important 440 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: for Americans to understand what the military and what has 441 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 1: become called the deep state, what they do, and so 442 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: thanks for the reporting you do on that. 443 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 8: All right, guys, it's hard to think of them any ways, 444 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 8: that this is a particularly absurd conspiracy. 445 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 4: But what stands out for you, well. 446 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 1: You know it hurts me sometimes. You know, was a 447 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: history major and a policize major and worked in the 448 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: government for years. So there's an assumption that the American 449 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: people understand how their system works, and how the military works, 450 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: and how our government functions. But you got to remind 451 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: yourself from time to time that people can be fooled 452 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:04,679 Speaker 1: by things, and it seems to be that that's the 453 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: case here. Like anybody who's been anywhere around national security 454 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: issueser or followed them in any way, would realize the 455 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: silliness of this. 456 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 3: As somebody who's never served in the military but served 457 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:19,360 Speaker 3: a lot with the military. I'm trying to imagine, you know, 458 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 3: a scenario whereby they bring in all the colonels, who 459 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 3: then later talk to the majors, who talk to lieutenants, 460 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 3: who talk to the actual troops, and they start the 461 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:32,640 Speaker 3: meeting by saying, Okay, we're going to invade the United States, 462 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 3: and they all look at each other and go like, 463 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 3: that's not a legal order. I'm from New Mexico. I'm 464 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 3: not going to invade my own country. So this is 465 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 3: not just silly, but it's also speaks almost dangerously to 466 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 3: what some people think. Our young men and women in 467 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 3: the US military would be willing to do. That they'd 468 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 3: follow orders. 469 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 4: But when you do think of countries where they do. 470 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 8: I think of what Syriah's done against Yes, China, Russia, Syria, 471 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 8: Iraq under Saddam. Why are those armies able. 472 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 3: To what is propaganda that the troops are intoxrinated with fear, 473 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,640 Speaker 3: and maybe some of them believe it. But the other 474 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 3: thing too is we do know that Russian troops in 475 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 3: Ukraine that they've got the really professional troops behind the 476 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 3: new guys going in to be cannon fodder, and if 477 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,640 Speaker 3: anybody looks to retreat, they shoot them. So I think 478 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 3: that a lot of the troops are just simply afraid 479 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 3: not to carry out their orders. And that's not the 480 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 3: way it works in the United States. The worst that 481 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 3: can happen to you is you could be like court 482 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 3: martials and they send you out. 483 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: So I lived in Indonesia, which is like I don't know, 484 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: seven twenty thousand all islands essentially, and they have a 485 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: massive army and almost no navy, and you're like, there's 486 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: no borders with any other country, Like what's the point here? 487 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 8: But I guess like Indonesia is a good example of 488 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,679 Speaker 8: a place where you have an Iraq is as well 489 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 8: Syria to some degree, where people have more of a 490 00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 8: regional or ethnic group identity than a national identity. I mean, 491 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 8: I was there before the war, and you just felt 492 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 8: different in Aleppo than you did in Damascus. Damascus was 493 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 8: much more loyal to the regime, or at least playing 494 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 8: So you could imagine you just make sure to get 495 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,360 Speaker 8: troops from different places, which maybe could work here. Actually 496 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 8: I would believe a bunch of Texas guys coming to 497 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 8: New York and reaking havoc. But that's because I'm from 498 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 8: New York. 499 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 3: But it depends too on how you train your military. 500 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 3: You know, those militaries that we're mentioning here are all 501 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,400 Speaker 3: trained on internal descent. They make lousy armies fighting any 502 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,120 Speaker 3: place else, right, I mean, right from day one there 503 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 3: it's about the internal enemy, right, right, Right? Does El 504 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 3: sever to Guatemala have an army in Costa Rica? Doesn't, right, 505 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 3: because it's all about internal stuff. 506 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 8: So I did witness a micro version of something like this. 507 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 8: So in the run up to the Irock War in 508 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,719 Speaker 8: two thousand and three, one of the sensitive political issues, 509 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 8: you know, the US invasion was mostly coming up from 510 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 8: Kuwait in the south, and then a bit coming from the. 511 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 4: North from the Kurdish region. 512 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 8: But there was a lot of talk that maybe parts 513 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 8: of the US military, especially special ops, would come in 514 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 8: from Jordan across the western Iraqi Desert, and the official 515 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 8: story was absolutely not that's not happening, And in fact, 516 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 8: King Abdullah of Jordan said there are no US troops 517 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,120 Speaker 8: on the Jordan side of the border, and basically the 518 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 8: entire Jordan based Foreign press Corps, which included me at 519 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 8: the time, drove to the border just because that was 520 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 8: our stage in ground, because we were if the US 521 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 8: military wasn't going to invade the Western Desert, it was 522 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 8: our plan to invade the Western Desert. 523 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:32,679 Speaker 4: There were US. 524 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 8: Troops all over. We saw their helicopters, we saw them 525 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 8: in shops buying stuff. It was a very transparent fact 526 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 8: that there were US troops exactly on the border who 527 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 8: look like Special Forces guys. 528 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 1: I mean like they had tattoos and stuff. 529 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 8: Well actually no beards, so that actually is a sign 530 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 8: that maybe they weren't special ops. But that has always 531 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 8: stuck with me is like the level of secrecy. We 532 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 8: just say it's not true, and you will never find 533 00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 8: out unless you happen to go to a shop that 534 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 8: sells sodas and potato chips and then you'll see like 535 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 8: four guys standing around. 536 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 1: Politicians have learned that if you just say something, most 537 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: people don't have any other way to prove it's not true, 538 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: so they'll. 539 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 4: Lot they'll believe it. 540 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. 541 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 8: By the way, that was another moment where there was 542 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 8: a fairly transparent lie, which was when George W. Bush 543 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 8: sent a US aircraft carrier to help with tsunami relief 544 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 8: in Indonesia. A very important moment that no US troops 545 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 8: will spend the night on Indonesian soil because that would 546 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 8: would somehow turn it into a different thing. So they 547 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 8: were supposed to fly in every morning whatever they were doing, 548 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 8: bringing food and fixing bridges, and then fly out every night. 549 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 8: And I went to the airport and I was interviewing 550 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 8: a bunch of the Marines. The American Marines are like, yeah, 551 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:46,640 Speaker 8: we're spending the night. We're not going to like fly 552 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 8: back and forth. 553 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: And I mean, it wouldn't have mattered. And they know 554 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 1: we're not invading them, and they understand that we were helping. 555 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 1: That A chasers horrible and it was unbelievable. 556 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 8: I don't want it myself now be a conspiracy theorist, 557 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 8: But do you think that there is a you know, 558 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 8: posse comitatus, like if there was a true rebellion in 559 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 8: the US, like a true armed like Americans truly taking 560 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 8: up arms in a very serious way with real military might. 561 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 8: Are there plans in the Pentagon somewhere for how the 562 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 8: US military will deal with it? 563 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 4: Or is that going to just be police action? 564 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: It's a good question. I mean, we were in intelligence. 565 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 1: That issue is never anything as part of our you know. 566 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 4: You couldn't look domestically at all. 567 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: No, but and it's hard to imagine, but of course 568 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: we see it in our political discussion now talking about 569 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: the protesters. Would would a Trump adminstration call in the 570 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: National Guard? You know, at what point would you call 571 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: in the military. So these are issues that they're not 572 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: completely crazy. People are talking about them, but I don't 573 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: know anything about how that's planned. 574 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 3: But let's look at how far we've gotten. I mean, 575 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 3: Trump did, as a fact, talk to his military leaders 576 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 3: about calling out martial law on protesters back when he 577 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 3: was still president, and he mentioned to the generals, can't 578 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 3: you just shoot them in the leg, which is often 579 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,959 Speaker 3: a fatal wound. And the leadership basically thought he was nuts. 580 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 3: And they're saying so now, like you know, his secretaries 581 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 3: of Defense and the people around and who were doing 582 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 3: military stuff. So one of the problems may be that 583 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 3: civilians ordering it may not know what's legal and what 584 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 3: they're allowed to do. 585 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: I think the military people know what's legal not to do. 586 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: Were there politicians who come in from the outside understand. 587 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 3: No, that's exactly what I meant that Trump doesn't understand 588 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 3: or the people the civilians around understanding. I think the 589 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 3: US military understood perfectly well what they were allowed to 590 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 3: do and not to do. 591 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: And they're very well trained and they're very well led. 592 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 3: It's also part of their duties to disobey orders that 593 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 3: are unlawful. In that case, depending on the circumstances, a 594 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 3: lot of people not doing that. But on civil unrest, 595 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 3: the first thing was would be to call in the 596 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 3: National Guard. That would be the first. The US military 597 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 3: would be much much later. First they they'd have police 598 00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 3: and then the National Guard. And you know, the military. 599 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 3: When you bring in helicopters and tanks against guys with 600 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 3: clocks and shotguns, it's not going to be a very 601 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 3: fair fight. I'll bet you that there are not such 602 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 3: plans because even making them, should they ever leak, it 603 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 3: would be so difficult, so awkward. 604 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: Jade Helm might be a good example. They saw that 605 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: when they weren't even doing anything related to this concern. 606 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: People went off on it and thought that the US 607 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: right military was attacking civilians and taking their guns. So, yes, 608 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: I think they're going to be very very careful about 609 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: making these kind of quote unquote plans. 610 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 3: Because reporters, journalists like you, Adam, would love to get 611 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 3: a hold of those plans, right, well, or good journalists 612 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 3: more good, Yeah, good journalists would. 613 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 4: Oh, there's lots of good journalists. Yeah. 614 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 7: Mission Implausible is produced by Adam Davidson, Jerry O'sha, John Cipher, 615 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 7: and Jonathan Sterner. The associate producer is Chill Harner. This 616 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 7: has been a production of abominable Pictures, an honorable mention 617 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 7: for iHeart Podcasts.