WEBVTT - RZA Talks Wu-Tang and Creativity In Quarantine 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:13.360 Pushkin. When Rizza put the nine members of the Wu 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:16.080 Tang clan together, he didn't just form a rap group, 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:20.279 he created a universe. Their debut album entered the Wu 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:23.759 Tang Thirty six Chambers was released in nineteen ninety three, 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:25.560 at the peak of what many considered to be the 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:28.480 Golden Age of hip hop. It was so packed with 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:31.040 the classic releases that, if you can believe it, Snoop's 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:35.000 Doggie Style Tribes, Midnight Marauders, and Woo's thirty six Chambers 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:38.720 all came out in the same month, But Wu Tang 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:42.400 was different. Sonically. Rizza produced dark and gritty beats by 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:45.599 manipulating old soul samples and splicing together sound bites from 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:48.839 Kung fu films, and lyrically, all nine members had a 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:53.479 unique style that was untouchable. Rizza spent three decades as 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:56.360 one of hip hop's elite producers and has gone on 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:59.520 to become an actor, director, and film composer, working with 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:02.760 people like went In, Tarantino, Bill Murray, and Denzel Washington. 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:05.639 Rick Rubin caught up with the Rizzar recently on Zoom. 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:09.800 Riz says his creativity is peaking. In Quarantine, he reminisces 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:12.000 with Rick about running around Staten Island with od B 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:14.200 as a kid. He also talks about the time he 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:20.959 almost left everything behind to move to Wootang Mountain in China. 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:24.880 This is broken record liner notes for the Digital Age. 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:34.000 I'm justin Richmond. Here's Rick, Rubin and Rizza. What's been 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:37.080 going on, man, man yo. I've been sitting in my 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:41.840 house doing doing zooms. It's been good because for me, 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:46.200 I have the Rivers Room going for season two of 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:51.040 Amernic Ossaga, So a lot of workers getting done. Ironically, 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:54.840 like people are still working in and we're actually all 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:59.440 schedule because the best of orders, we're all confusion. There's 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:03.680 certainly distractions from the outside world. So it's a good 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:07.160 time to get work done. I gotta agree, especially the 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:10.680 kind of work that we do, creative work. Uh, it's 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:14.359 like it's been for me. My creativity is it's it's 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:16.280 peaking in a way, right, you know what I mean. 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:18.680 Like it's like I've been in the gym and I've 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:21.480 got creative muscles I need to use and they ever 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:25.000 ready to use. I've been playing with the MPC. I mean, 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:28.200 I think I mean a fifteen beat doing the quarantine 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.239 so far, incredible. That's a yeah, that's a nice amount. 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:33.720 And I'm usually that usually take a year to get 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:35.000 that minute, you know what I mean from the way 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.679 I've been working in the film, but be at home 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:41.520 every day. You know what it is, right, the hours 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:46.400 we used for commuting, it's gone, right, yeah, so those 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:48.560 hours now come back to me and I get to 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:51.160 play when it played playing those hours. How how has 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:54.720 your relationship to making beats change from when you were 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:59.120 starting to now? Wow, Um, the relationship changed in the 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:01.840 sense of before I think I made Beast for the 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:06.600 purpose of a purpose, you know what I mean, A 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:09.600 purpose of it's going to be a record, a purpose 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.600 of maybe I'm gonna get some money, for a purpose 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:16.080 of being the best. I mean, I definitely wanted to 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:18.400 be the best producer or the best hip hop producer 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:22.000 in the world that had the summer I'm feeling. And 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:23.680 now when I make it, I just make it as 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:29.960 an expression of of almost like just entertaining myself, you 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:32.520 know what I mean. There's no goal, there's no purpose 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.160 for it. It's just like I'm just doing it, like 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:38.000 just if if I was playing the video game. That's 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:40.600 if I was playing my piano my beat machine becomes 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:43.680 that fun moment for me to go down DJ a 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:45.640 little bit of my old dal on my DJ set, 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:48.200 take a couple of samples, you know what I mean, 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:51.360 find some new sim sounds. It's just it's just that's 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:53.920 my day. I'm entertained by that. You think if you 0:03:53.920 --> 0:04:00.480 could zoom out and look over your work from earlier 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:04.360 when it was goal oriented to now, you think that 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:08.600 the goal oriented part of your old work is what 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:11.920 drove it or was it just one of the aspects. 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:18.559 To be honest, the majority of my critically acclaimed work 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.840 that you know, like thirty six Shameless, those beasts were 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:27.039 made with no I could say no goal in the 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:30.880 sense of or can I say, what's no economic goal? 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:34.039 A lot of those beats was made because I was 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:36.000 in my house, I had my beat machine, and I'm 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.800 making beats. It's fun, you know, I mean, blame the 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:46.360 pain that was made having fun. Maybe after I had 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:49.440 a flood, you know that lost a lot of my 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:53.240 tracks away, like in nineteen right before this whole, right 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:56.200 before the big solo U Tank solo albums, right, so 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:59.680 maybe ninety four then. But I had made record deals 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:04.159 with people, right, so I had to turn out a 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:07.159 lot of work. And I sat in that basement for years, 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:10.600 turning out a lot of work, meeting deadlines, and I 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.720 succeeded at that, and it still wasn't a lot of money. 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:16.279 But I think when the money got involved, I think, 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:18.479 at one point, and I'm not sorry to say this 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:22.400 now a day, at one point, you know, maybe I 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:24.560 was getting a hundred one hundred plus a track right 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:28.880 and around that range, I'm not even making music unless 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:31.240 you call me with that money, you know what I mean. 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:36.479 So the money became the dictator of my creativity, you 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:38.200 know what I mean. So what I could say for 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:41.560 nowaday and it could be from the blessings of being 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:43.800 able to do to express myself in film or the 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:47.800 blessing to express myself in other mediums, that when I 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:52.200 make music, I'm making music purely for the expressing themselves, 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:57.760 purely for my own entertainment. And maybe maybe it's the 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:00.359 best stuff I ever made. Maybe it's not, but it 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:04.479 sounds like from what you're describing your earliest and and 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:08.080 maybe some say I think your most important work to 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:15.600 breakthrough works were made without without that pressure from the outside. Yeah. 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:20.320 I had a conversation with my woutang brothers about about 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:23.800 a similar conversation, not as on the nose is this, 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:28.600 but it was was talking about making an album right 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:31.440 this is before we did our last album was called 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:36.640 it Better Tomorrow. And you know I had to actually negotiate, 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:39.040 you know, our neighbor brothers to get him to come 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:41.039 and do the album undue and this much when do 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:42.880 wanted that much? And I haven't go through it was 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:45.520 a self funded album. In the beginning meeting, you know, 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:47.720 I think I had I'll take a million hours and 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:49.720 invested in myself, you know what I mean, into my 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:52.320 clu So I broke everybody off hunt ads for dcs 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:55.200 there or whatever. But I tried to bring it to 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:59.920 that conversation, like yo, it's another course money to make 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:04.800 music in the old days, the songs like take the 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:08.839 song method that that song came about because he came 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:12.640 to my house on a Friday night with the week Okay, 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:15.400 I had an eight track recorder in my house, had 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:17.320 a micah, had just made a beat because I was 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:19.880 making beats all day. He showed up. He had a 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:23.560 couple of comic books, two bags of weed, and some blunts. 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:29.680 He had jestment is doing his his uh pharmaceutical work, 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.960 and he came. He came forward some downtime. He rolled 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:35.600 it up, we let it up, we smoked it. I 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:37.520 picked the beat on a fuck the mic and he 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:40.720 did the song. In fact, the electricity went out. We 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:44.120 had to plug into my aunt's electricity downstairs and we 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:48.280 recorded it right. And that's because that's what we wanted 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:51.160 to do. And a lot of the woofs wool in 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:53.520 the early days is that you will come to my 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:57.160 trip and come hang out and make a song. You 0:07:57.280 --> 0:07:59.320 wanted to do it. So I'll try to be mind 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:01.440 the brothers that yo. We used to make music because 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:03.160 that's what we wanted to do. You came to my house. 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:05.880 I didn't actually to come. I didn't pay you to come. 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:08.760 It's that's what's the place. You came to let loose 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:10.680 your verse, to hang out, smoke a blind, plays some 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:13.840 video games, watching food flick you know what I name. 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:18.360 Make some music, you know. So a lot of ours 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:20.200 early stuff, a lot of songs. Even you listened to 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:24.400 the ODB first album, it's just the first album, the 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:30.200 thirty six Chambers. A lot of that is like remakes 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:32.600 of what we did as kids, like we had the 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:36.640 foundation listen Liquid Spards, that same routine and Liquid Spards 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:39.480 when the MCS came, you know that we made that 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:44.160 probably when we was fifteen years old with a pause 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:46.480 tape you know what I name. And then when we 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:48.800 got an album Deil, I'm like, yo, let's bring back 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:51.200 that a whole routine we used to play and we 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:53.960 did it and it became when it became How old 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:56.240 were you guys when you made the first album? Um 0:08:56.720 --> 0:09:00.360 first album? Officially, I was twenty one. As far as 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:02.840 the first just well just Just's album. You want to 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:07.960 count that nineteen when he made Worse Margenius. Yeah, so 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:12.520 not bad, no incredible, But you guys had already been 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:17.960 percolating for five or six years. Yeah, yeah, running around 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:22.800 New York trying. You know, they're trying. You know, I 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:24.680 got a question for you. I got used with this 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:30.960 of course. So rock the Bells, Yeah right, you program 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:36.720 the drums on that one. And and then how about 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:40.320 Jack the Rapper, Jack the Ripper with the seven or 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:43.880 seven cow bells? I can't remember because I can't remember 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:45.280 is that was that on the first album or the 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:46.760 second album. If it was on the second album, I 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:49.520 didn't produce it. It It wasn't even on an album. It 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:53.040 was like like a B side single that I think 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:56.000 you guys had dropped back at back. Honestly, can't remember. 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:58.800 I'd have to listen back, I'd have to listen. But 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:00.440 let me talk about Rock the Bells one moment if 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:03.559 you don't mind, no, not at all. So Rock the 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:08.719 Bells one of the hardest beasts to hit the streets, okay, 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:16.400 and really a pioneering production for hip hop. And then 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:19.360 The bell Man. Now that my producer, I could have 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:23.479 imagine that that hit was a good tar hit, basically 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:29.480 elpo with Jay It's all that's a right, yes, and 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:34.440 it changes hip hop, it evolves it to be totally honest. 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:36.920 And I'm only bringing this up to give me some 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:42.840 points on this right because I remember being very egotistic 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:46.679 about hip hop myself, Like you know, it took me. 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:48.560 It took me, like I had to go to France 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.320 and after the album called water Court, in the rest 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:53.000 of the year two thousand and I had to travel 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:55.760 around all these different countries and do music right, and 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:58.199 I'm seeing rappers everywhere, and I realized hip hop as 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:03.320 a world wide but it did have his roots in America. Right. 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:08.240 But at one point people said hip hop was black music. 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:12.240 Wait a minute, and I said in an interview, wait 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.719 a minute, and I was said, I'm glad that I 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:19.600 was why I said, Rick Rubin may rock the bounce. Okay, 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:23.959 that's in the early phasis of hip hop. So I'm 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:25.680 not gonna say that as the black and white music. 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:28.680 Because Charlie Chase and and and the and the and 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:32.559 the Fielders four, he had Tito in the group. We 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:36.839 got Rick Rubin producing the early drums on L L. 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:43.120 Cuge probably run DMC. Okay. Point I'm making is that 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:46.120 you got the Latin brother, you got the white brother, 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:49.480 you got the black brother or naked hip hop. So 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:52.280 when I so when I was going through you know, 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.280 going through that to the to these countries, you know, 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:57.160 they was like, yeah, black, you know block, I know, 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:00.800 hold on hip hop. We can't say it's an American right. 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:03.560 We should say American before we said it, because actually 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:10.079 it's been pioneers from every aspect of our culture. Hip 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:14.240 hop is actually a melting pot of our culture. It's true. 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:16.240 But maybe that I will say in the early days, 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:18.760 I always felt like the only white person in the 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:22.640 room for a long time. Right. Look, you know what, 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.240 in the early days, even in my hood, there's only 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:27.400 one white dude that lived in the project. But that 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.760 was I'm mad. You know, if you got dog chocolate, 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:33.520 you put a muspoonful of milk in it, it breaks 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:34.760 it down a little bit, you know what I mean. 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:37.200 So point on the point being made is that hip 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:41.840 hop is was one of the first, not one of 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:44.839 the first, but definitely part of the American culture that 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:48.520 is emerging of different people from walks of life, you 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:52.520 know what I mean. Now, Now, the Asian influence may 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:56.960 have not been identified or identifiable or in it, and 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:59.280 it came in but it but it was in it 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.000 in a even my sterious way. If you go back 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:04.840 and talk to Grand Master Flash and talk to some 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:07.920 of these guys, you realize that some of their names, 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:11.120 some of their vibes did come from Come to Movies. Right. 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:15.080 You go back and you talk to some of the breakdances, 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.400 you'll see that they picked up a couple of moves 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.600 from some of the forty seconds three Come to Movies, Right. 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:23.240 But it still it didn't but it wasn't identifiable. Then 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:26.320 woul Tang comes and we put it right into music. Basically, 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:32.200 hip hop is that culture that allowed the entire spectrum 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:36.839 of American culture to exist creatively and caban and then 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:41.320 eventually become the culture of the world. What was the 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:45.160 what was the hip hop scene that you grew up in? Like, 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:49.439 what were you seeing around? For me? The first time 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:54.000 I heard hip hop was on stat Nolan nineteen seventy six. 0:13:55.280 --> 0:14:00.839 It was a DJA named DJ Jones. The other guy 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:05.520 named was Quincy. These these are unknown DJs who who 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.559 who unknown to the rest of the world and uh 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:12.680 and then an MC named MC punch And they would 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:16.840 bring that system out between the building two forty and 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:20.280 two sixty park Hill, there was a parking lot there. 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:23.040 They would plug up and they would do their jams. 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:28.080 How many people would come, maybe, you know, eighty ninety 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:30.480 even if one hundred people the whole because it's park Hill, 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:32.800 so everybody from all the kids, from all the builders 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:34.800 would come. I shouldn't be out there. I got my 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:37.480 ass well from being out there because I'm I'm seven 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:43.520 eight years old, mesmerize, hypnotized by the music and what 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:50.840 he was playing was apache that deep, that vibe, it 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.120 it was whatever that song made me want to get 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:57.480 on the floor and roll around, you see. And the 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:00.440 first thing I did was I tried to len how 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:02.880 to do it wasn't even called breakdance and was called 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:06.400 freak style or freaking freaking off through the freestyle, you 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:08.960 know what I mean. And so that was my first thing. 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:11.560 But then when the rapper was like dip dip dive 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.400 so socialized to clean out to ears, then you open 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:17.240 your eyes right that that was probably a rap that 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:19.560 he probably got from someone else. Who knows, right, because 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:24.280 somebody rappers said it, but it hit me and my 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:27.200 cousin just a couple of years older than me. He's 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:29.800 the one that took me to the block party. He 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.520 was already writing lymics at that time, you know what 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:34.240 I mean, Because I was living down South for a 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:36.400 few years. So I just got back from down South, 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:38.320 so imagine it. I'm coming back from down South for 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:41.360 seven years old, going on eight. I hear this music. 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:47.000 I'm mesmerized. How how popular was the music at that time? 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:50.600 Would you say everyone your age liked it or no? 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:53.640 I won't. I don't know if everyone my age liked it, 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:56.440 but I think no more than a hundred and fifty 0:15:56.440 --> 0:16:00.320 people knew how to do it, you know what I mean. Unity, 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:03.800 It was a small still a very small community, small community. 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:06.720 Just A told me he got it from he learned 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:09.360 it from the Bronx, from sound View Projects. He had 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:12.360 a cousin up the sound View Projects. He would go 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.320 to their house and people will bring out sound systems 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:17.400 there and they would do it. That's where it hit him. 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.240 So so my style really could be traced back to 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.200 the Bronx, from the just you know what I mean, 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:27.640 he boarded the stat now. Um, and then of course 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:29.600 you know, by the age of nine, I started writing lyrics. 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:32.880 But in hip hop is still new. It's never been 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:36.160 on the radio yet, you know what I mean. Um, 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:41.800 I don't think even w BLI, HBI whatever, HBI, w 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:46.840 HPI hasn't hasn't hit it yet. Remember mister Magic, don't 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:50.360 mister Magic. No Supreme Team. Yeah, but you're still talking 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:55.280 seventy eight, seventy nine. That sugar Hill Game comes in 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.840 seventy nine. But anyway, it wasn't a lot of people 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:04.800 doing it, answer your question, and it was mostly DJ's 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:09.280 catching a break beat. The samplers wasn't happening. I remember 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:13.199 the first time I heard a sampler. I mean, you know, 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:15.800 of course Molly in the early days, but that's like 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:19.159 Marley's one eighty eighty five. Now, yeah, he comes in 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:21.920 and when ye, when ye rock the bells for us. 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:24.520 I don't know. I'm not good with dates, but but 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:26.480 I know, I do know that when we made those 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:28.840 first records, there was not a sampler yet. We didn't 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:31.760 yet happen exactly, no sampler exactly. So that's the point 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:34.399 I'll make. No samplers. So it's just the break beat, 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:40.080 the DJ cutting it in. Maybe you had a four track, right, yeah, 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:43.480 and so it was primitive. But I do remember hearing 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:46.600 Flash ran Master Flats had a song called Flashes on 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:50.640 the beat box, like An and Me and Dirty went 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:54.520 the fourteen Street because fourteen Street had all the electronics stores, 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.719 remember that, of course, and we tried to go and 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:00.520 find what the heck was a bat box, and we 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.159 end up getting was one of those rhythm boxes that 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:07.639 they use in church her rhythms. Yeah, and we now, 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:09.760 I don't know if that's the Is that what the 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:12.520 Flash is talking about? No, I don't know. I don't 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:16.199 think I think so, but maybe maybe, Well that's the 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:18.639 first thing I've ever had. Those were like like rhythm 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:21.320 like rhythm king. It's like it just has like a 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:24.359 bunch of buttons to pick the style of beat. You 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:27.000 don't you don't program a beat. You don't program it. 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:30.240 It has pre program beat and you can just control 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:33.080 the tempo, control the tempo. But if you press two 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.600 of them together, yeah, it will do something awkward absolutely 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:41.680 well if you keep holding the phil In button. Yeah. Yeah. 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:44.080 So that was the first That was my first way 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:46.560 of trying to produce. I had two time tables and 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:50.640 one of those beat rhythm boxes. And then one day 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:55.320 there's a guy on stand allan named uh silly phil Right. 0:18:56.160 --> 0:19:00.280 He comes outside with a six h six drum machine. Now, 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:03.359 I mean that changed the game. But we thought that 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:06.760 was the masterpiece, right, But then Doctor Rock or the 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:12.280 fours MDS or foursomcsmember remember DJ Doctor Rocke. So Doctor 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:15.919 Rock he comes out with a seven h seven. So 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:18.119 this is nineteen Now I'm going I might I might 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:20.280 be in nineteen eighty two. Now I'm in eighty two, 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.159 nineteen eighty two, eighty three, the seven h seven is 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:27.760 on the block. Doctor Rock has it, and he invites me, 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.400 Justiz and odb Over to do a demo. I'm fourteen 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:37.160 years old, yeah at most, and we recorded a demo 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:40.040 and we just felt like we was headed. We was 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:42.040 gonna be on top of the world. And this is 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:45.520 before the fourso mds had dear Tommy Boy deal. They 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:48.400 they gonna get a Tommy Boy deal for another year maybe. 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:51.280 So anyway, point being made is that the seven h 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:55.040 seven was like the machine that has And then I 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:58.560 had a DJ on Stanton Island named Scotty Rock right 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:00.760 not to because not to be complete with Scott mo Rock, 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:04.600 but his name was Scotty Rock and he came. He 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:08.200 brought the nine O nine. He had a pair of s, 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:10.159 he had a pair of twelve running techniques and a 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:12.720 nine on nine drum machine. And I stayed at his 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:16.960 house every day after school making beats and making demos 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:19.760 with him and another guy named b Dub. And we 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:22.679 had another guy from my high school named DJ Skain 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:28.520 who also had to had a dope echo machine had 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:30.320 to He's the one that he asked. He's the one 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:33.520 that had the Yamaha Forts track, you know what I mean. 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:36.159 And I borrowed it. I bawed this and balled that 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:38.199 and balld that wanning over my house, and I just 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:42.080 started making neighborhood albums. Me and ODB would make albums 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:44.520 and put him out in the hood. But that's that's 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:47.480 my earliest memories, memories of hip ho hop. You know, 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:50.720 going back from eight to fourteen. I have to ask 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:56.360 you what was ODB like as a kid? Wow? Beautiful, funny, crazy? 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:02.040 Uh at this age to say, around the age of nine, 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:06.040 ten eleven, um he lived, he lives in Brownsville. Then 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:07.840 he is a movie se up. But I was going 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:10.359 to point out he was one of those kids that 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:15.240 we had this thing called cat agility. So cat agility 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:18.080 means you you got to jump from one balcony to another, 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:21.480 run up the walls and order. This is before popcor 0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:26.800 It is basically the foundation of popcorps. And old Dirty 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:29.879 was nice at it. Yo. Was it inspired by the 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:33.280 Kung Fu movies? It may have been. I just feel 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:36.960 like kids. It's like some kids that always started doing something, 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:39.679 you know, not kids. Uh can you jump from this 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:42.160 bank to this year, about this to this? And then 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:43.840 every day it got more and more and next thing 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:45.919 you know, it's five kids and we are running in 0:21:45.920 --> 0:21:48.080 the road and I was running with him. I wasn't 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:50.640 never as good as him. He was like a national. 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:52.879 He could run up the wall to do a flip. 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:55.600 So when Brave Dance it came out, he could do 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:57.480 the windmill. I had to set the poplock and I 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:02.359 cannot woke the floor. And you know, he got into 0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:06.280 hip hop first as a DJ, you know what I mean. 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:09.439 I kind of forced him to be an MC. You 0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:11.520 know what I mean, Like look like you know, I 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:13.880 was his younger cousin, but I had I was taller, 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:17.399 you know what I mean, And I had had had 0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:19.880 a little spirit, like a little pushy spirit. I think 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:22.720 that at that age I had got knowledge of myself 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:25.840 at eleven and a half, you know what I mean. 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:29.040 So you know, by the time I'm fourteen, I'm already 0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:31.440 you know, young Malcolm x mine, you know what I mean. 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:36.159 And and that energy kind of uh was pushy. How 0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:39.679 how do you decide to form? When I think of 0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:43.359 Wu Tang, For me, it's the first group of its kind. 0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:46.800 It doesn't feel like a continuation of a lineage. But 0:22:47.000 --> 0:22:49.800 for you who did you did you feel like it 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:52.639 was part of a lineage of groups that had come before. 0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:56.200 To be honest, it felt I mean, look, there's other groups. 0:22:56.200 --> 0:22:59.320 I gotta give respect to Cold Crush brothers, like I said, 0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:02.359 Fantastic Freaks or the Fantastic you know, the Fantastic Five, 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:07.520 the Furious Five, Treacherous three till there's four. I mean, 0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:10.080 I give all respects to those brothers. But I didn't 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:14.159 see Woutang clan as none of that. It's not it's 0:23:14.200 --> 0:23:18.720 it's nothing of those. It was more of a Kung 0:23:18.840 --> 0:23:22.680 Crue clan, you know what I mean. So there's there's 0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:25.400 certain movies that just really touched me when I was young. 0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:28.800 You know, there's a movie called The The Brave Archer. 0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:32.120 And in this movie The Brave Archer, there's a banker clan. 0:23:32.600 --> 0:23:35.680 There's hundreds of them, man, and and you know them, 0:23:35.960 --> 0:23:39.000 you know, or even Shallon, you know, the Shalon movies. 0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:41.080 Just like there was a movie where if every Shalon 0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:44.040 guy Shalon got burnt down and everybody had to flee 0:23:44.400 --> 0:23:47.280 and take their secret techniques and you're a new one. 0:23:47.280 --> 0:23:51.560 When they had certain hand signals that became like my psyche, 0:23:52.400 --> 0:23:55.359 you know what I mean, The Five Deadly Venoms, you 0:23:55.400 --> 0:23:58.520 know what I mean. The Ten Tigers of Quantan, in fact, 0:23:58.560 --> 0:24:02.040 the ten Tigers of Quanta um or Canton if you've 0:24:02.040 --> 0:24:08.359 fronounced it properly. It's probably the the movie that I 0:24:08.359 --> 0:24:11.800 could have modeled. Some of the Wou Tang members asked, 0:24:12.000 --> 0:24:14.640 you know what I mean? And there's another movie called 0:24:14.640 --> 0:24:18.840 The Eight Diagram Pole Fightless with eight brothers all fighting 0:24:18.920 --> 0:24:23.280 for the country, layalless. And those two movies could be 0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:28.920 the movies that inspired me to realize that we can 0:24:29.000 --> 0:24:31.720 move as a clan, you know what I mean, Not 0:24:31.880 --> 0:24:34.440 just five deli ventos, because five is a lot too. Yeah, 0:24:34.920 --> 0:24:36.879 you know what I mean, but the move as a clan. 0:24:37.520 --> 0:24:39.920 I would think that I kind of was inspired by 0:24:39.920 --> 0:24:43.320 the art of martial art films, the shivalry, the brotherhood, 0:24:43.800 --> 0:24:46.000 the one man would die for the other. How do 0:24:46.080 --> 0:24:48.560 you how do you get into martial arts films? My 0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:53.040 first movie I ever saw was Tom Sawyer Huckleberry Finn movie. 0:24:55.000 --> 0:25:00.399 My second movie it's Star Wars. My third movie is 0:25:00.440 --> 0:25:04.119 The Swarm In. My fourth movie is a double feature, 0:25:04.640 --> 0:25:07.760 which was a Bruce Lee movie called A Furia the Dragon, 0:25:07.880 --> 0:25:09.840 which was that's an edited movie of all his Cato 0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:14.440 things but together, and Black Samarai with Jim Kelly. Right, 0:25:15.000 --> 0:25:18.040 those are my first five movies, and if you look 0:25:18.080 --> 0:25:20.720 at me as if you look at what that means 0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:28.040 to me. The force is my spirituality, right, Lightsaber, the swarm, 0:25:28.400 --> 0:25:32.240 killer bees, who tank killer bees? Okay, the kung Fu 0:25:32.359 --> 0:25:35.040 movies is all of my blood, you know what I mean? 0:25:35.800 --> 0:25:39.520 And I think the writing of Mark Twain and the 0:25:39.640 --> 0:25:43.480 storytelling is all in my blood. I think those early 0:25:43.600 --> 0:25:47.240 movies really like imprinted it something on me. And plus 0:25:47.280 --> 0:25:48.760 the people who I was seeing him with. I was 0:25:48.800 --> 0:25:52.960 seeing with my uncle who was just you know, a 0:25:53.000 --> 0:25:55.600 father figure in my life. He's the one that that 0:25:55.640 --> 0:25:57.560 took the time to take me to see a movie, 0:25:57.800 --> 0:26:00.239 you know, and we're talking, you know, the the man 0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:02.119 who would take it to the movie and talked to 0:26:02.200 --> 0:26:04.880 you after the movie was over, which I now doing 0:26:04.920 --> 0:26:07.200 my children out. We don't we don't just watch a movie. 0:26:07.200 --> 0:26:09.240 We watch it after the movies, don't. We sit down 0:26:09.240 --> 0:26:11.720 and we spent fifteen to thirty minutes, maybe even an 0:26:11.760 --> 0:26:14.000 hour depending on the movie, and we talked about it. 0:26:14.600 --> 0:26:18.879 So those movies probably uh have the big inspiration, but 0:26:19.000 --> 0:26:22.600 the kung fu movie had the biggest And so then 0:26:22.640 --> 0:26:24.639 what my cousin Vince had took me down to forty 0:26:24.640 --> 0:26:30.240 seconds stry it was a kung Fu triple feature, so 0:26:30.359 --> 0:26:33.320 you can imagine for a dollar fifty and so that 0:26:33.400 --> 0:26:36.840 became my my my stimulation to the point that by 0:26:36.840 --> 0:26:39.159 the time I was a teenager, me and od B, 0:26:39.320 --> 0:26:42.680 we would play hooky and those students, you know, were 0:26:42.680 --> 0:26:45.920 those kids in the theaters would a joint cut in 0:26:46.000 --> 0:26:50.320 school watching movies. We'll be back with more from Rizza 0:26:50.359 --> 0:26:57.560 after a quick break. We're back with more from Rizzina. 0:26:58.280 --> 0:27:04.040 How much would you say, um, smoking influences your creativity. 0:27:04.920 --> 0:27:10.320 That's a great question. I there, um, and I gotta 0:27:10.359 --> 0:27:14.880 be honest, right, I started creating before I was smoking. 0:27:16.359 --> 0:27:19.960 I created a lot doing my smoking. I got to 0:27:20.000 --> 0:27:23.000 an argument with my little brother about five years ago. 0:27:25.000 --> 0:27:27.120 My little brother he's in a group called Killer Army, 0:27:27.200 --> 0:27:30.240 and you know, he's he's he's he's maybe eight years 0:27:30.320 --> 0:27:33.200 nine years younger than me. And so he's the guy 0:27:33.240 --> 0:27:37.480 that looked at me, learned from me, and continues and 0:27:37.560 --> 0:27:39.280 hip hop. You know, he wanted you know, he's he's 0:27:39.280 --> 0:27:43.040 he I'm like his big brother that he's copient. And 0:27:43.200 --> 0:27:45.960 the more I got into drugs and more he got 0:27:46.240 --> 0:27:50.040 drug I smoked it. He smoked it. Okay, whatever I did, 0:27:50.080 --> 0:27:54.600 he did. If I chewed it, he chewed it, and uh, 0:27:54.640 --> 0:27:57.280 I stopped about five years ago. I don't like I 0:27:57.320 --> 0:27:59.159 haven't you know, I don't even smoke weed right now, 0:28:00.040 --> 0:28:01.359 you know what I mean. I just chilled out like 0:28:01.400 --> 0:28:03.879 I'm good. Like if I smoked weed. Now it has 0:28:03.920 --> 0:28:07.280 to be a total celebration of something great. I gotta 0:28:07.320 --> 0:28:10.560 get the Grammy or the hostile, something really great for 0:28:10.600 --> 0:28:12.359 me to say, I'm want to celebrate with that, with 0:28:12.480 --> 0:28:15.600 that drug and nothing to guess that I smoked enough 0:28:15.600 --> 0:28:19.120 for two lifetimes. But the point I want to make 0:28:19.280 --> 0:28:22.200 is that he was like, yo, because I told him 0:28:22.200 --> 0:28:24.399 you should quit. You know, you just quite especially the 0:28:24.400 --> 0:28:26.680 hard drugs, you should quit them. And he was like, nah, 0:28:26.800 --> 0:28:30.960 many crazy, all the greats. Man made this ship of 0:28:31.080 --> 0:28:35.680 the drugs, Jimmy Hendricks, Jane Brown, Jannys jep He started 0:28:35.760 --> 0:28:39.640 naming motherfucker's the even you that's the Wait a minute, 0:28:39.680 --> 0:28:43.120 let me think about that. I said, Nah, I made 0:28:43.200 --> 0:28:46.120 thirty six chambers sober because remember I went on trial. 0:28:46.840 --> 0:28:49.800 I cook and get high and I just kept making 0:28:49.880 --> 0:28:54.720 music and doing things sober. I said, Actually, I made 0:28:54.760 --> 0:28:59.360 my company. Everything I did was the best. Met was 0:28:59.400 --> 0:29:02.440 the sober me. Right. He was like he didn't believe it. 0:29:02.480 --> 0:29:04.320 I said, yeah. Then I said, you know what, two nice. 0:29:04.680 --> 0:29:06.720 When I went to do my movie Man with the 0:29:06.800 --> 0:29:11.200 Eye insist, I sobered up. I had to be I 0:29:11.280 --> 0:29:13.800 wrote it. I went to China. No drugs in China anyway. 0:29:14.880 --> 0:29:19.240 I stayed there for nine months and I directed a film. 0:29:19.280 --> 0:29:22.040 I couldn't afford to be high, and I was able 0:29:22.080 --> 0:29:25.440 to operate all my creative abilities. So I'm only saying 0:29:25.440 --> 0:29:28.840 that I made a lot of music while Bobby digitals 0:29:28.920 --> 0:29:32.360 and all type of ship. Bro. But I honestly gotta say, 0:29:32.920 --> 0:29:35.640 and I can speak from the truth that my creative 0:29:35.720 --> 0:29:40.000 energy is not generated from drugs. It's it's a self 0:29:40.080 --> 0:29:44.080 generating desire to create. And like I said, I made 0:29:44.120 --> 0:29:49.240 fifteen beats so far on this quarantine. No drugs in 0:29:49.320 --> 0:29:51.720 my house, bro, tell me about what was it like 0:29:51.800 --> 0:29:54.400 living in China for nine months? Thanks for asking, But 0:29:54.400 --> 0:29:59.360 that was the first world I'm gonna say, lonely. And 0:29:59.400 --> 0:30:02.480 it's not a lot blocks over there, Bro, I sold 0:30:02.520 --> 0:30:05.680 like two blocks in nine months, you know what I mean. 0:30:05.880 --> 0:30:07.720 Let's say, let's say came over with me, you know 0:30:07.760 --> 0:30:09.680 what I mean, not a lot of us over there. 0:30:10.280 --> 0:30:13.120 I'll tell you how lonely. It was. Now we could 0:30:13.160 --> 0:30:15.800 say in America we got red system. All right. If 0:30:16.240 --> 0:30:19.080 you know, an average black guy dressed him in my 0:30:19.120 --> 0:30:21.440 hoodie stown and I don't know I made dressed. If 0:30:21.480 --> 0:30:24.440 I come across an average white guy, he might feel like, Yo, 0:30:24.680 --> 0:30:28.000 what this dude gonna do? Right, I'm in China, bro 0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:32.560 at an elevator, about to go to my room whatever, 0:30:32.680 --> 0:30:36.600 sitting there, and here comes a white guy, average white 0:30:36.600 --> 0:30:42.000 guy from the Midwest. He he hits the button. He 0:30:42.040 --> 0:30:45.520 looks at me. I look at him. How you knowing 0:30:45.520 --> 0:30:46.959 that my name is Bob? I think what's your name? 0:30:47.320 --> 0:30:53.160 We became immediate friends, Bro, because first of all, you 0:30:53.200 --> 0:30:57.400 don't even here in English, okay, and we talked about sports. 0:30:57.440 --> 0:30:58.880 He was out. That's what you're going out here. He's 0:30:58.880 --> 0:31:01.520 out my head with the fort the Fourth Corporation building 0:31:01.560 --> 0:31:03.760 a whole new plant. I'm there, I'm building a plant. 0:31:04.000 --> 0:31:06.360 It's what you're doing something. I'm making a movie. We 0:31:06.480 --> 0:31:09.680 became for him. So now, maybe in Arabica that wouldn't 0:31:09.680 --> 0:31:11.280 have happened. Even the gout in the elevator that got 0:31:11.280 --> 0:31:14.320 the offer, But it was so lonely that even they here, 0:31:14.400 --> 0:31:18.080 somebody speak your own language and understand the culture of 0:31:18.200 --> 0:31:21.520 what America because it's a different we have a unique 0:31:21.520 --> 0:31:25.280 coaching bro, good, bad or ugly, it's different, you know 0:31:25.320 --> 0:31:28.080 what I mean? And when I was over there, I 0:31:28.960 --> 0:31:33.280 recognized that I felt that describe a bit about that culture, 0:31:33.360 --> 0:31:35.880 like what are some of the differences for those of 0:31:35.920 --> 0:31:40.720 us who haven't been well on a on a micro 0:31:41.200 --> 0:31:44.040 on a I'm gonna macro first, on a macro level, 0:31:44.840 --> 0:31:49.479 it's almost like everything looks like it's like the building 0:31:49.560 --> 0:31:51.960 looks like the building is gonna be you walk in, 0:31:52.000 --> 0:31:54.280 the building's going to be the same, right, but it's 0:31:54.280 --> 0:31:56.280 not going to be the same because the coach it's 0:31:56.280 --> 0:32:00.280 a communist country. Bro, Okay, you did them a common zoon. 0:32:01.000 --> 0:32:04.800 That means that the freedom of speech, the freedom of 0:32:04.800 --> 0:32:07.160 what you want to say. It's not really like that 0:32:07.280 --> 0:32:10.560 you can't say it like I couldn't say they like 0:32:10.600 --> 0:32:14.120 they had to check my script and make sure that 0:32:14.240 --> 0:32:17.480 I was saying the right shiit yo. Now I respect that, 0:32:17.520 --> 0:32:20.960 I respect their culture. But if you want to know 0:32:21.040 --> 0:32:25.440 about censorship and and being controlled at the highest level, 0:32:26.080 --> 0:32:27.840 but that's what they do, you know what I mean? 0:32:28.520 --> 0:32:32.720 And it's law. Any of the things that were you 0:32:32.760 --> 0:32:35.040 were not allowed to do anything that you said or 0:32:35.080 --> 0:32:38.680 any themes in the movie that were questioned. I couldn't. 0:32:38.760 --> 0:32:43.120 I couldn't say Shalon in my movie because because Shalon 0:32:43.280 --> 0:32:48.960 is historically a place in China that's historically real, and 0:32:49.040 --> 0:32:53.920 so they didn't want me to dampen their culture by 0:32:54.200 --> 0:32:58.560 saying Shalon in my movie on a story that wasn't 0:32:59.280 --> 0:33:04.200 real to shout l now, I don't know why, because 0:33:04.240 --> 0:33:08.400 I don't see a hundred movies with different stories about Shallette, 0:33:08.760 --> 0:33:10.680 and I've been to China. Vary sounds. So I went 0:33:10.720 --> 0:33:13.480 on the pilgrimage to China as well. And when I 0:33:13.520 --> 0:33:15.920 went on that pilgrimage, it was one of the greatest 0:33:15.960 --> 0:33:19.560 sxpienities of my life because I went to Shalotte Temple, 0:33:19.640 --> 0:33:23.440 I went to Woutang Mountain and and the history of 0:33:23.440 --> 0:33:28.600 their culture, of what they preserved in their culture, it's 0:33:28.600 --> 0:33:31.240 a blessing for the entire world because they got history 0:33:32.280 --> 0:33:38.080 four thousand years still contained beautiful and when I went there, 0:33:39.600 --> 0:33:42.080 it's not commercialized. Well, when I went it wasn't commercialized 0:33:42.160 --> 0:33:45.360 yet Shalon became a little commotionalized based on a lot 0:33:45.360 --> 0:33:49.040 of movies and a lot of tourism Wu Tanging Mountains. 0:33:49.080 --> 0:33:51.400 It's hard to get to first of all, it's not 0:33:51.440 --> 0:33:54.320 as easy to get to a shallete. And when I 0:33:54.360 --> 0:33:58.560 went there, it was really interesting because they had a 0:33:58.600 --> 0:34:03.480 different type of serenity about them, you know. So Wu 0:34:03.560 --> 0:34:08.240 Tang malant is considered the birthplace of tai Chi Zingy 0:34:09.480 --> 0:34:17.560 and bah Wah of course, and the months there. Although 0:34:17.920 --> 0:34:23.480 they're not celibate, they don't practice selimancy, but they practiced 0:34:23.520 --> 0:34:28.840 internally before external right, and it shows in their demeanor 0:34:29.000 --> 0:34:35.080 because their smile starts from their belly and it comes 0:34:35.080 --> 0:34:37.239 out their face, you know what I mean. And it 0:34:37.400 --> 0:34:41.879 was big strong smiles, big strong energy. If I didn't 0:34:42.040 --> 0:34:45.319 have a family, and this is gonna sound funny because 0:34:45.320 --> 0:34:47.839 does only happened to me twice in my life. Now 0:34:47.960 --> 0:34:50.120 my Jenny is both let me. If I didn't have 0:34:50.120 --> 0:34:53.000 a family and children back home, I would never have left. 0:34:54.160 --> 0:34:57.680 I felt almost like Superman when felt when he left 0:34:57.719 --> 0:35:01.200 pripped on and landed on earth. That happened to me 0:35:01.640 --> 0:35:04.319 at the Ru Tang Mountain, and then it happened to 0:35:04.360 --> 0:35:07.920 me when I was when I visited Africa, when I 0:35:07.960 --> 0:35:09.719 went to visit ghost Face, he was in Africa and 0:35:09.760 --> 0:35:12.200 I had to go. I promise Monatico I would visit him, 0:35:12.239 --> 0:35:14.879 and so I visited him. Promise I had to keep. 0:35:16.040 --> 0:35:19.440 But something about the way the sun was hitting me, 0:35:20.600 --> 0:35:24.279 it felt like, wow, I understand what Superman feels like. 0:35:24.840 --> 0:35:28.560 So the Star Wars, the forcing Star Wars was your 0:35:28.600 --> 0:35:34.960 first introduction and spirituality basically from yah on the Baptist church. 0:35:35.239 --> 0:35:37.720 Ye tell me about that, like, tell me about all 0:35:37.719 --> 0:35:42.960 of your the roots of your spirituality from the beginning. Well, yeah, first, 0:35:42.960 --> 0:35:45.239 of course, a Baptist church. You know, I went to church. 0:35:45.360 --> 0:35:47.560 My mother said me to church. My uncle who took 0:35:47.600 --> 0:35:50.080 me to church. But my uncle who took me the church, 0:35:51.680 --> 0:35:53.320 the same one who took me to see Star Wars. 0:35:54.080 --> 0:35:56.440 The church was scary to me, you know what I mean, 0:35:56.440 --> 0:35:59.400 when people stopped falling out screaming the Holy Ghost and 0:35:59.440 --> 0:36:01.120 all that. Man, I ain't want to stand them parts 0:36:01.120 --> 0:36:04.960 of that. Was it a very musical service that you 0:36:04.960 --> 0:36:08.360 went to, Yeah, it with musical services, but somebody always 0:36:08.360 --> 0:36:11.359 caught the Holy Ghost, bro, And I'm like, how could 0:36:11.360 --> 0:36:13.200 the ghost be holy? You know what i mean? And 0:36:13.320 --> 0:36:15.000 I'm looking you know, I mean, you gotta think the 0:36:15.040 --> 0:36:18.000 Exorcist is out too. All right, So the Holy Ghost 0:36:18.040 --> 0:36:22.040 don't add up to me. But I didn't understand what 0:36:22.080 --> 0:36:25.160 that meant, and I didn't understand how they was displaying it. 0:36:25.239 --> 0:36:32.680 So that pushed me away. Star Wars attracting me. Okay, 0:36:32.800 --> 0:36:37.080 so that's my first like personal attraction. The church was 0:36:37.120 --> 0:36:42.600 forced on me. Yeah. Ten years later, of course, still 0:36:42.680 --> 0:36:45.719 church was being pushed on me until around the age 0:36:45.760 --> 0:36:50.840 of eleven eleven and a half, my cousin Schulza taught 0:36:50.880 --> 0:36:55.040 me about the mathematics and about Islam. And it was 0:36:55.120 --> 0:36:58.279 there that I began to study. In my studying the 0:36:58.360 --> 0:37:03.360 Islam and studying our lessons. Our lessons mentioned Buddhism and 0:37:03.520 --> 0:37:08.439 mentioned the Indians, and mentioned Jesus, you mentioned the plos 0:37:08.520 --> 0:37:12.080 of Muhammad, you know what I mean. And so it's 0:37:11.600 --> 0:37:14.080 just so. So it's then it being that it mentioned 0:37:14.080 --> 0:37:20.120 all those religions, I began to research those religions and understand, 0:37:20.800 --> 0:37:22.520 you know, because in our lessons and it's like in 0:37:22.560 --> 0:37:24.520 the lessons it mentions the Bible. There's a version of 0:37:25.200 --> 0:37:27.640 it from the Book of Ezekiel. If you read the 0:37:27.640 --> 0:37:31.160 Book of Ezekiel, what what a book? Okay, there's also 0:37:31.239 --> 0:37:33.960 a lesson from the from the Book of Matthew. What 0:37:34.120 --> 0:37:37.160 another beautiful book. But then it tells about then it's 0:37:37.160 --> 0:37:39.840 a lesson about Buddhism. It's like, wait a minute too. 0:37:40.080 --> 0:37:42.239 So I had to study that. But I got deeper 0:37:42.280 --> 0:37:46.480 into Buddhism and Taoism because when I've seen thirty six 0:37:46.520 --> 0:37:49.680 Chambers of Shall and there was a quote in the 0:37:49.760 --> 0:37:53.960 movie that just pierced my heart. And the quote was 0:37:54.600 --> 0:38:00.520 the five colors blond VII repeat, repeat that one more time. 0:38:01.320 --> 0:38:07.520 He said, the five colors blinds the eyes, the five 0:38:07.680 --> 0:38:17.520 tones deafens every year without wisdom, no game. That was 0:38:17.520 --> 0:38:20.600 in the movie that sent me right to Chinatown. Looked 0:38:20.600 --> 0:38:24.840 at for books and I found the couple, you know 0:38:24.880 --> 0:38:27.919 what I mean? Um and uh and And I've never 0:38:27.960 --> 0:38:32.520 turned away from that, always kept researching that um and 0:38:33.560 --> 0:38:36.279 that led to Taoism. How did how did Jessy get 0:38:36.280 --> 0:38:40.080 into the mathematics? Do you know? I think I think 0:38:40.440 --> 0:38:43.200 my cousin of life from Ou the Queens may have 0:38:43.480 --> 0:38:46.080 inspired him. And as the far as far as I know, 0:38:46.160 --> 0:38:48.360 far as the root of it, you know, so it 0:38:48.440 --> 0:38:51.919 started with life. That's what he took from this verbal 0:38:52.400 --> 0:38:55.279 from them telling me and then him telling me and 0:38:55.320 --> 0:38:57.799 what what what the reason why the mathematics was it 0:38:57.920 --> 0:39:00.759 through Nation of Islam at that point, do you think, yeah, 0:39:00.960 --> 0:39:03.040 because that was around at the time, Like that's what 0:39:03.160 --> 0:39:05.960 was hot in the neighborhood. You had to be the nation. 0:39:06.200 --> 0:39:09.560 Nation of Islam is a foundation. And then a man 0:39:09.640 --> 0:39:11.879 named Climates thirteen next Smith breaks away from the Nation 0:39:11.880 --> 0:39:14.959 of Islam and he starts teaching the right to the youth. 0:39:15.880 --> 0:39:18.400 I think what he did, if we could talk about that, 0:39:18.600 --> 0:39:21.560 is that usually if you're in a Nation of Islam, 0:39:21.600 --> 0:39:24.879 and I know, I can't someone speaking this by here. 0:39:25.360 --> 0:39:27.520 This is not personal experience. I haven't joined the Nation 0:39:27.520 --> 0:39:29.640 of Islam to notice. But for what I was told 0:39:30.080 --> 0:39:32.479 in the Nation of Islam, you have to go through 0:39:32.719 --> 0:39:35.640 like a period of time or a period of service 0:39:36.000 --> 0:39:41.359 before you're given one hundred or twenty lessons, right, and 0:39:41.400 --> 0:39:43.120 that it could take you five years to get that 0:39:43.400 --> 0:39:45.600 ten years either get all you know, whatever it takes. 0:39:46.719 --> 0:39:51.640 The father took those lessons and put them in the 0:39:51.719 --> 0:39:56.600 hands of the youth in one day. Okay, you could 0:39:56.640 --> 0:40:00.000 study at your own pace. I lunk the whole hundred 0:40:00.080 --> 0:40:03.080 twenty lessons in seven months. By the time I was twelve, 0:40:03.080 --> 0:40:09.239 I knew it. That's you know, there's grown men who 0:40:09.320 --> 0:40:14.160 didn't know it, you know what I mean. So the 0:40:14.160 --> 0:40:16.480 beauty of it, I think is that it just allowed 0:40:16.960 --> 0:40:19.160 it pushed me into deep study. But let me share 0:40:19.160 --> 0:40:23.560 something that the mathematics did, right. It had this lesson 0:40:24.239 --> 0:40:26.400 that I heard people talking about, like in the neighborhood, 0:40:26.400 --> 0:40:28.320 you got the twelve Jews, you got the twelve Jewels. 0:40:28.320 --> 0:40:31.120 Everybody would say this, right, And I'm like, what are 0:40:31.160 --> 0:40:33.760 they talking about? Twelve Jews? And I lived in Brooklyn 0:40:33.760 --> 0:40:35.759 Browns at the time, so twelve Jews. I thought they 0:40:35.800 --> 0:40:39.839 were saying the twelve Jews, like twelve Jews. Rights, that's 0:40:39.840 --> 0:40:42.160 what it sounds like, the twelve Jews. And at the 0:40:42.200 --> 0:40:45.840 same time, my mother had gave me a gift of 0:40:46.040 --> 0:40:50.359 Bible stories, right, So because I'm I'm gonna leven years 0:40:50.360 --> 0:40:57.520 old and I'm reading about Joe, Abraham, lot Uh, Samuel, 0:40:58.320 --> 0:41:02.640 David Solomon, I'm beating about all these great, great great men, right, 0:41:02.840 --> 0:41:05.960 and and these small Bible stories. I'm memolizing stuff. The 0:41:06.040 --> 0:41:08.480 one thing about me, Rick, I gott a good memory. 0:41:09.000 --> 0:41:11.680 So I'm memolizing this stuff. And then they say the 0:41:11.719 --> 0:41:15.240 twelve Jews. I'm thinking, like the twelve Sons of Jacob 0:41:15.320 --> 0:41:20.400 was twelve right, you know so, But it wasn't twelve jews, 0:41:20.719 --> 0:41:24.600 I mean, Jay Jay, it was duels, yes, and those 0:41:24.640 --> 0:41:38.920 twelve jewels was knowledge, wisdom, understanding, freedom, justice, equality, food, clothing, shelter, love, peace, happiness, 0:41:39.280 --> 0:41:43.520 beautiful and it said it. But man obtained that he's 0:41:43.600 --> 0:41:49.239 truly wealthy. And I went on a mission to obtain that, 0:41:50.320 --> 0:41:53.520 you know what I mean. And uh, I feel like 0:41:53.600 --> 0:41:55.279 I got it, you know what I mean. Because it's 0:41:55.280 --> 0:41:59.480 because at the end of the day, food, clothing, and shelter, 0:42:00.520 --> 0:42:02.880 as long as there's food on the table, clothed on 0:42:02.960 --> 0:42:05.640 your back, and some type of selling to you good yo, 0:42:06.400 --> 0:42:07.920 you know what I'm saying. I know I've been blessed, 0:42:08.440 --> 0:42:10.520 you know, to have a nice home, you know what 0:42:10.520 --> 0:42:14.560 I mean. But even when I was fourteen years old 0:42:15.120 --> 0:42:19.160 living in an apartment with nineteen people, because I had 0:42:19.239 --> 0:42:22.319 those twelve jewels in my heart, I was still good 0:42:22.719 --> 0:42:25.320 sleeping on the floor, you know, I mean, next to 0:42:25.680 --> 0:42:28.600 three other people. And then it never I'm never was unhappy, 0:42:29.640 --> 0:42:32.600 you know what I mean. So those things are are 0:42:33.400 --> 0:42:38.520 more valuable than some of these physical material things. Yeah, 0:42:38.520 --> 0:42:43.839 it's like the outer pleasures are much more temporary than 0:42:44.360 --> 0:42:48.280 the inner Wisdom. We'll be back with more Rix Conversation 0:42:48.360 --> 0:42:55.439 with Rizza after the break. We're back with the rest 0:42:55.480 --> 0:42:59.839 of Ricks Conversation with Rizza. So technically on the new 0:43:00.440 --> 0:43:02.600 beat your making, technically, how are you doing it? What 0:43:02.920 --> 0:43:06.799 equipment are you using? Oh? Um, I'm using MPC still 0:43:06.840 --> 0:43:09.520 as the as the as the brain of things. But 0:43:09.640 --> 0:43:11.719 I played with all the programs. You know, I may 0:43:11.880 --> 0:43:16.440 play with uh logic. I played with able t UM. 0:43:17.200 --> 0:43:20.040 I got a great keyboard that I'm I'm really loving 0:43:20.160 --> 0:43:22.600 right now called the wad Off. It's a great sim. 0:43:23.200 --> 0:43:27.359 I like doing the physical sims, you know what I mean. So, UM, 0:43:27.880 --> 0:43:31.160 I use the physical sims. I got my UH, I 0:43:31.280 --> 0:43:35.640 got the UM. The Artaria has a great sim as 0:43:35.680 --> 0:43:39.960 well called the group uh. And just really those two 0:43:40.040 --> 0:43:45.080 SEMs mixed with the MPC UH. And of course I've 0:43:45.080 --> 0:43:49.160 got my DJ set up, so yeah, you know, and 0:43:49.280 --> 0:43:52.040 through other toys I keep I keep toys, but the 0:43:52.160 --> 0:43:55.719 MPC is the brain right now. And what's your h 0:43:56.400 --> 0:43:58.880 Craig digging? How does how do you find how do 0:43:58.960 --> 0:44:06.600 you find sample and inspiration music? Well, well, I sampled 0:44:06.680 --> 0:44:11.640 maybe only thirty percent now, so like like I kind 0:44:11.680 --> 0:44:16.320 of like sample on weekends because I DJ, so I 0:44:16.360 --> 0:44:20.400 started playing the music DJ and oh wow. But fortunately 0:44:20.920 --> 0:44:25.200 I was able about ten years ago to transfer most 0:44:25.239 --> 0:44:29.640 of my library to digital. So you know, I think 0:44:29.680 --> 0:44:34.800 I got about I mean, I got friends of my 0:44:34.920 --> 0:44:41.000 personal transfer transferred library. I probably got about forty thousand songs. 0:44:42.040 --> 0:44:47.040 And then Shovo, my buddy seen Shago of course bass 0:44:47.080 --> 0:44:50.920 player system of a down exactly. He gave me for 0:44:51.000 --> 0:44:53.360 my birthday because when I started hanging up with Shavo, 0:44:53.840 --> 0:44:56.480 I was unfamiliar with heavy metal, when rock, I wasn't 0:44:56.520 --> 0:44:59.239 good at it. I knew a few, you know. He 0:44:59.400 --> 0:45:02.479 gave me a iPad for Christmas one year of thirty 0:45:02.560 --> 0:45:07.640 thousand songs that covered that genre, and I just download 0:45:07.680 --> 0:45:10.400 all that into my computer. So I'm sitting on, you know, 0:45:10.600 --> 0:45:13.200 hundreds of thousands of songs. It's already on my hard drives, 0:45:13.280 --> 0:45:16.239 and that's my digging technique. I just go through all 0:45:16.320 --> 0:45:19.680 the songs, you know what I mean. I still got 0:45:20.080 --> 0:45:22.880 about you know, I still got some a lot of 0:45:22.920 --> 0:45:26.000 boxes of vinyls. That's back East. And when I go 0:45:26.120 --> 0:45:30.120 back East, I normally dig through vinyl because I had 0:45:30.160 --> 0:45:33.359 the breastings of getting economics and getting able to travel 0:45:33.400 --> 0:45:36.280 around the wall. So I bore boxes of records almost 0:45:36.320 --> 0:45:38.800 every stop, you know what I mean. I got a 0:45:38.960 --> 0:45:47.839 box from Italy that's all seventies Italian rock soul. Yeah, 0:45:47.880 --> 0:45:50.560 because they cover all this ship with their bands. So 0:45:50.680 --> 0:45:54.040 the intro is different, the vibe is different, you know 0:45:54.040 --> 0:45:56.239 what I mean. So and every once in a while 0:45:56.239 --> 0:45:59.440 I'll dig through that stuff and find a loop, you 0:45:59.480 --> 0:46:02.319 know what I mean. But you know, hopefully it ain't 0:46:02.320 --> 0:46:03.960 got to clear them right, but I do clear. I 0:46:04.040 --> 0:46:09.319 clear my samples. Let a couple of questions and on you. Yeah, 0:46:09.719 --> 0:46:14.359 it was a drum machine. First drum machine was an 0:46:14.480 --> 0:46:16.960 eight O eight and it was not mine. It was 0:46:17.440 --> 0:46:20.719 I was going to NYU, living in the dorm. There 0:46:20.880 --> 0:46:23.279 was a kid named Eric who was in a band 0:46:23.440 --> 0:46:26.640 or like a new wave band called the Speedies who 0:46:26.760 --> 0:46:30.320 played at places like Danceteria or the you know Roxy, 0:46:30.440 --> 0:46:32.960 the maybe not the Roxy, the Rits like those kind 0:46:33.000 --> 0:46:37.480 of clubs, yeah, maybe mud Club if you remember that Downtown, 0:46:38.800 --> 0:46:43.480 but they played more like alternative music clubs and uh. 0:46:44.280 --> 0:46:46.279 And even though he was in a rock band, he 0:46:46.440 --> 0:46:49.400 had an eight oweight drum machine. Um and this was 0:46:49.960 --> 0:46:52.680 there had eight awaits had not really been used in 0:46:52.800 --> 0:46:56.359 hip hop yet, and there wasn't really so much hip hop. 0:46:57.480 --> 0:47:00.239 The culture existed, but there weren't so many records. There 0:47:00.280 --> 0:47:03.200 were were twelve inches, and the twelve inches that there 0:47:03.280 --> 0:47:06.400 were more often than I think, I'm trying to think 0:47:06.440 --> 0:47:12.520 there were any exceptions. It was almost always a band 0:47:12.640 --> 0:47:17.239 played track, because even though like if you went to 0:47:17.320 --> 0:47:20.960 a hip hop party, what you'd what you'd hear in 0:47:21.560 --> 0:47:24.480 at a hip hop party would be breakbeats and scratching 0:47:25.239 --> 0:47:27.960 and maybe a DJ using a drum machine. I mean 0:47:28.120 --> 0:47:30.279 maybe Grand Wizard Theodore was the first one I saw 0:47:30.360 --> 0:47:33.600 use a drum machine as part of his DJ set. 0:47:35.320 --> 0:47:42.080 The records were still being made like disco club records, 0:47:42.160 --> 0:47:44.120 but with guys rapping on them, you know, like all 0:47:44.160 --> 0:47:46.759 the sugar Hill. The sugar Hill records were not programmed, 0:47:46.800 --> 0:47:49.279 you know, they were played by a band, a house band. 0:47:50.680 --> 0:47:53.200 Even the Enjoy records were played by a house band. 0:47:54.160 --> 0:47:57.440 So I bought these records wanting it to sound like 0:47:57.600 --> 0:48:00.800 what I heard at the club, and never did. It 0:48:00.920 --> 0:48:04.560 always sounded like a band playing and a guy rapping. 0:48:05.120 --> 0:48:07.959 Where the thing that first excited me about the music 0:48:08.120 --> 0:48:12.160 was the djaying more even than the MC's you know, 0:48:12.200 --> 0:48:14.319 it's like I love the Treacherous Three and they were 0:48:14.360 --> 0:48:19.319 exciting as MC. Yeah, but when I got to see 0:48:20.239 --> 0:48:23.160 you know, Jazzy Jay cutting up breaks beat beat, you know, 0:48:23.280 --> 0:48:26.840 break records and Octopus records, if you remember yep, I 0:48:26.920 --> 0:48:31.120 got ye Octopus incredible. So that felt more like what 0:48:31.320 --> 0:48:34.640 hip hop was to me. And again I'd buy these 0:48:34.680 --> 0:48:36.719 records every week and none of them sounded like that. 0:48:37.480 --> 0:48:40.279 So when I so I decided to start making them 0:48:40.760 --> 0:48:44.719 not I never thought of it in any commercial way. 0:48:44.760 --> 0:48:47.000 I never knew that anybody would like it. I just 0:48:47.120 --> 0:48:49.120 tried to make a record that sounded like the club 0:48:49.200 --> 0:48:52.520 that I went too, almost like a documentarian, you know, 0:48:52.640 --> 0:48:55.120 like I just want to I want to hear this sound. 0:48:55.160 --> 0:48:58.279 I don't get to hear this sound and m and 0:48:58.360 --> 0:49:03.359 then it kind of spread from there. So now one 0:49:03.400 --> 0:49:06.000 of my trade I mean, of course all the bcs 0:49:06.200 --> 0:49:08.680 and then you produced all that and that's all that's 0:49:08.719 --> 0:49:11.120 it was the first album. Of course, that first time 0:49:11.120 --> 0:49:13.840 talking about the first album. First of all, I was 0:49:14.000 --> 0:49:19.000 so when y'all had the Horns, like that was the 0:49:19.239 --> 0:49:21.520 breakbeat was called the Horns, But what's the real name 0:49:21.560 --> 0:49:27.400 of it? Though I don't know. I was like me, 0:49:27.680 --> 0:49:30.160 me and old because see, we was also going to 0:49:30.280 --> 0:49:33.400 the going to those recket stores, buying all the octopus breaks, 0:49:33.680 --> 0:49:36.880 put them on our four tracks, making our demos right, 0:49:37.080 --> 0:49:39.600 no sampler, so you gotta cut it. We gotta cut 0:49:39.640 --> 0:49:41.600 it on the four track. Then the wrapper raps on 0:49:41.719 --> 0:49:44.800 top of the that right, and we was trying to 0:49:44.880 --> 0:49:48.080 get uh. But when y'all came with that, man, it 0:49:48.200 --> 0:49:51.120 was like it did it first? It was one song 0:49:51.320 --> 0:49:54.520 no no, because you know you were all dreaming were 0:49:54.840 --> 0:49:56.600 Once I heard a sugar Hill game on the radio. 0:49:57.800 --> 0:50:00.800 That's why I was heaving. I would say. When I 0:50:00.920 --> 0:50:05.200 heard them on the radio, I knew that's where I was. 0:50:05.400 --> 0:50:09.000 I had to be one day. One day, that's what 0:50:09.160 --> 0:50:12.280 I'm gonna be. I knew it was possible run anyway, 0:50:13.160 --> 0:50:15.200 you know. So you produced all those ill joints and 0:50:15.239 --> 0:50:17.200 you took the great Beasts based it with the drummers, 0:50:17.200 --> 0:50:21.000 say but on together forever. That's your programming together forever. 0:50:21.120 --> 0:50:23.840 One DMC top for another. It was either me or 0:50:23.920 --> 0:50:26.080 jam Master Jay, and I can't remember because we would 0:50:26.120 --> 0:50:28.000 work together in the studio on all the records, and 0:50:28.480 --> 0:50:30.680 sometimes he would program the beat sometimes I would program 0:50:30.800 --> 0:50:32.680 to beat. It was not exclusive. But the coolest thing 0:50:32.760 --> 0:50:35.000 about that track was that that was all eight oh 0:50:35.120 --> 0:50:41.239 eight and getting the eight O wait first of all, 0:50:41.480 --> 0:50:43.879 always not It wasn't an easy machine in the program either. 0:50:44.440 --> 0:50:49.239 Awkward it wasn't easy, very awkward way of thinking getting one. 0:50:50.080 --> 0:50:53.480 There wasn't even a lot of them out there. I 0:50:53.520 --> 0:50:55.760 mean there was more seven H sevens than eight O eights, 0:50:55.920 --> 0:50:59.279 right yeah, nine O nine is more of those with 0:50:59.480 --> 0:51:01.719 eight O ways, was like, no, you don't have one, 0:51:01.719 --> 0:51:04.440 You're not getting one, and so I never I never 0:51:05.320 --> 0:51:07.720 on the eight O eight until after I was famous. 0:51:07.920 --> 0:51:10.520 It was it was considered a failed drum machine, you know. 0:51:10.640 --> 0:51:13.240 It was it was a flop of a drum machine 0:51:13.840 --> 0:51:17.240 when it came out right, because it didn't really sound 0:51:17.320 --> 0:51:19.040 like drum. The whole idea of the drum machine was 0:51:19.080 --> 0:51:22.759 supposed to sound as much like drums. So there was 0:51:22.800 --> 0:51:26.160 already like Lynn drums and the d X and DMX. 0:51:26.600 --> 0:51:29.160 We had. We had a d I think we had 0:51:29.200 --> 0:51:31.440 a d X also, and on a lot of like 0:51:31.560 --> 0:51:33.560 the Openheimer right yeah, and on a lot of the 0:51:33.640 --> 0:51:37.080 run DMC records, we would sync up the d X 0:51:37.360 --> 0:51:40.200 and the eight to eight together and just pick certain 0:51:40.320 --> 0:51:43.600 sounds from each and get them to play in sync. 0:51:44.239 --> 0:51:46.000 And then it made it sound like a new machine 0:51:46.040 --> 0:51:48.080 you hadn't heard before, because it wasn't just either one 0:51:48.080 --> 0:51:50.800 of those drum machines fol both. Yeah, I recognized that. 0:51:50.920 --> 0:51:53.320 And I think suck MCS is that the d X 0:51:54.719 --> 0:51:57.400 because I feel like Suck MCS was like an attempt 0:51:58.040 --> 0:52:04.600 like a DJ, a program of action yea, and Russell 0:52:05.000 --> 0:52:08.480 was Russell had that beat for action, and then he 0:52:08.600 --> 0:52:14.440 got Larry to program Sucker MCS based on action. Okay. 0:52:14.760 --> 0:52:17.279 I would always thought that as a moment, I'm a 0:52:17.360 --> 0:52:20.720 young deep so I'm I'm I'm that young DJ scratching 0:52:20.760 --> 0:52:23.200 it all day, trying, you know, few years or three 0:52:23.280 --> 0:52:26.879 years behind you guys, just dreaming, you know what I mean. Um, 0:52:27.440 --> 0:52:29.520 But the d X. I love how that one sounded. 0:52:29.600 --> 0:52:32.960 I think the shakers on that one did you agree? Absolutely? 0:52:33.040 --> 0:52:36.759 And it had that uh the swing function where you 0:52:36.800 --> 0:52:40.000 can get into which was really like the whole what 0:52:40.320 --> 0:52:44.360 ended up becoming New Jack swing. That machine was the 0:52:45.000 --> 0:52:49.520 was the first drum machine that could create the beat 0:52:49.640 --> 0:52:54.360 that skipped in that way, that particular way. Okay, let 0:52:54.400 --> 0:52:55.799 me get to it. Let me get a couple more 0:52:55.840 --> 0:52:59.160 in on you. So no, no, because come on, they do. 0:53:00.239 --> 0:53:03.520 We could do this forever. So you so you did 0:53:03.680 --> 0:53:05.600 when you did, I'm glad postpone, glad we got a 0:53:05.719 --> 0:53:08.960 chance to work together finally on a on a better tomorrow. 0:53:08.960 --> 0:53:10.360 I was like, man, I said, how can I be 0:53:10.440 --> 0:53:12.560 on the planet and not get his hands to work 0:53:12.560 --> 0:53:15.000 with Rick group? And that's not that's that's not that's 0:53:15.040 --> 0:53:18.839 not supposed to be because I really, I really appreciate 0:53:19.480 --> 0:53:21.279 what you did for hip hop, what you do for 0:53:21.360 --> 0:53:25.120 hip hop, what you do for music. And I watched you, right, 0:53:25.960 --> 0:53:29.000 I watched you as an example, right, and you did 0:53:29.120 --> 0:53:31.640 something that you know what you did. But I just 0:53:31.680 --> 0:53:36.160 want to say, my whome mouth, even after you help 0:53:36.280 --> 0:53:42.640 build Death Chin right, and can can be you know, well, 0:53:42.640 --> 0:53:44.360 I know you got people around you or whatever that 0:53:44.440 --> 0:53:49.680 helped out, but can be the spinhead who combine hippop 0:53:49.760 --> 0:53:53.319 and rock together. Bro Okay? Even with this good tar 0:53:53.480 --> 0:53:57.719 hit on rock the Bells to the Arrow Smep song 0:53:57.840 --> 0:54:01.680 said all this stuff that eventually became a movement to 0:54:01.800 --> 0:54:05.480 help spread this culture. Even after you separated from hip hop, 0:54:05.840 --> 0:54:09.320 you went to and made Death of Monitor right and 0:54:09.600 --> 0:54:16.120 then continue to push the culture. Like I just remember 0:54:16.400 --> 0:54:17.920 some of the records that was coming out on it. 0:54:18.040 --> 0:54:21.359 I was like, it's it's, it's, it's, it's, it's it's 0:54:21.440 --> 0:54:26.480 still has a hip hop vibe in it, even though 0:54:26.719 --> 0:54:29.560 the average critic didn't know what to write. No, they 0:54:29.600 --> 0:54:33.080 could write whatever, but no, it's it's still had those foundations. 0:54:33.640 --> 0:54:36.320 And that's because you are producing it. Yeah, right, and 0:54:36.480 --> 0:54:40.799 and and then you took it from there. And then 0:54:40.840 --> 0:54:44.560 we talked about Shavo. But you produced that first album 0:54:44.640 --> 0:54:47.880 for it. I produced all the System of the Down albums. O, 0:54:48.160 --> 0:54:51.719 come on bro, all right here? Like did you go 0:54:51.840 --> 0:54:54.880 to NYU to study music? Like? Who would you study here? No? 0:54:55.560 --> 0:54:58.800 I started as a philosophy major and then switched to 0:54:58.840 --> 0:55:00.840 film and television because all of my friends were in 0:55:00.880 --> 0:55:03.839 film and television. Just seemed like the classes were more fun, 0:55:04.000 --> 0:55:07.520 So I just switched watch. I'd rather watch movies than 0:55:07.880 --> 0:55:12.720 discuss philosophy at that point in time. Right, that's crazy 0:55:12.719 --> 0:55:16.360 because because you think about all the records you produced 0:55:16.880 --> 0:55:24.279 that you know, that's Grammy winning, ground ground breaking, Like 0:55:24.840 --> 0:55:27.120 if somebody go and of course you know, you know 0:55:27.160 --> 0:55:28.640 you people bring you up to the you know, say 0:55:28.680 --> 0:55:31.600 the Dixie Chicks or whatever whatever, Right, but if somebody 0:55:31.760 --> 0:55:35.480 was just say it's it's it's somebody like take fifty years, 0:55:35.520 --> 0:55:38.239 a hundred years, twenty years from now, somebody start off 0:55:39.000 --> 0:55:45.279 with one of your Dixy Chicks songs, right, how deep, 0:55:45.320 --> 0:55:48.239 big out a day or how would their constouness go, 0:55:48.960 --> 0:55:51.320 Wait a minute, this is the same guy who made 0:55:51.960 --> 0:55:56.000 rock the bells. They you know what I mean? They 0:55:56.680 --> 0:56:00.840 and hip hop? You know so certain the pop like myself, 0:56:00.920 --> 0:56:02.520 like you know, jay Z came to you for ninety 0:56:02.560 --> 0:56:05.160 nine problems. We understand that, but I think a lot 0:56:05.239 --> 0:56:10.759 of motherfuckers don't understand this subjectory in this role. You 0:56:11.120 --> 0:56:15.080 you you've traveled and you've paid. Because when I look 0:56:15.120 --> 0:56:17.600 at me, if did the album with Paul banks Um 0:56:18.719 --> 0:56:20.719 last year, A couple of years of other think too, 0:56:20.760 --> 0:56:22.960 we did in twenty sixteen, k My twenty seventeen. Yeah, 0:56:23.040 --> 0:56:26.719 but Court Banks and Stills. But it's still it's just 0:56:28.920 --> 0:56:32.360 on the road you carved already. You see me and 0:56:32.360 --> 0:56:35.560 the black remember me and the Black Teasers doing songs together? Right, 0:56:35.960 --> 0:56:37.480 We didn't release it, but I remember they took it. 0:56:37.560 --> 0:56:39.640 They they they took it. They say, people taking the 0:56:39.719 --> 0:56:42.440 rick and see what he thinks because they if you 0:56:42.480 --> 0:56:44.239 don't like it, it ain't working, you know what I mean. 0:56:45.400 --> 0:56:50.399 But the point being made is that you actually pioneered 0:56:51.840 --> 0:56:55.960 um this melding, you know what I mean. So I's 0:56:56.000 --> 0:56:59.360 gonna thank you for that, because as a composer, you know, 0:56:59.800 --> 0:57:03.359 I have to do that anyway. And I always felt 0:57:03.400 --> 0:57:06.600 like at one point and I don't At one point, 0:57:06.640 --> 0:57:08.880 I was strictly hip hop bro I got nauseous from 0:57:09.000 --> 0:57:13.600 R and B right, and I didn't understand where rock was, 0:57:13.920 --> 0:57:18.680 what rock was because I didn't equate great beasts with rock. 0:57:19.160 --> 0:57:22.560 But meanwhile, I'm cutting up hockey tonk woman, I'm cutting 0:57:22.600 --> 0:57:26.760 up saloon rocking in the pocket. Yeah, okay, I'm cutting 0:57:26.880 --> 0:57:31.440 up back in black ac DC. I'm cutting all that. 0:57:31.640 --> 0:57:34.320 Another one bites the dust. Now, I think another one 0:57:34.360 --> 0:57:37.120 bites the dust. He was inspired by the other. I 0:57:37.160 --> 0:57:38.920 think that was a verse. I think that might have 0:57:38.960 --> 0:57:43.440 been me verse inspiration on that one thing. Yeah, But regardless, 0:57:44.080 --> 0:57:46.680 I'm cutting up these these joints. I know what's when 0:57:46.720 --> 0:57:49.920 I'm cutting up that that we lost them this year, 0:57:50.120 --> 0:57:54.520 we lost them Rush Tom Sawyer. Nobody never really came 0:57:54.560 --> 0:57:57.200 over that track yet, There's never really been been a 0:57:57.240 --> 0:58:00.200 total hip hop song. Off of that, I did four 0:58:00.240 --> 0:58:03.240 of them, never released them because I thought that break 0:58:03.680 --> 0:58:09.120 Tom Sawyer your mama name. Yeah. I mean so meanwhile, 0:58:09.240 --> 0:58:12.360 I'm not knowing that rock is always part of it, 0:58:13.320 --> 0:58:15.400 you know what I mean? Um, A lot of our 0:58:15.520 --> 0:58:18.000 drums and break beats as coming from rock. We're not 0:58:18.080 --> 0:58:22.880 realizing it, um. But the man who I think did 0:58:23.080 --> 0:58:28.400 realize it, it's you, and I thank you, constantly added 0:58:28.440 --> 0:58:33.520 it to the music. Yo. I'll say that I rarely 0:58:33.720 --> 0:58:37.440 looked it at it by genre. It was more the 0:58:37.600 --> 0:58:40.240 feeling that it gave me, you know, Like I'll say, 0:58:40.960 --> 0:58:44.520 as a as a genre, I never really listened to 0:58:44.720 --> 0:58:47.040 R and B. I never really liked R and B. 0:58:47.640 --> 0:58:50.560 But I love James Brown and I love Barry White, 0:58:51.200 --> 0:58:55.920 you know so like. But as a as a style, 0:58:57.000 --> 0:58:59.440 it didn't speak to me. But the cases spoke to me. 0:58:59.680 --> 0:59:01.720 Samee and hip hop. I don't like all hip hop. 0:59:02.040 --> 0:59:04.160 I liked certain flavor. As a matter of fact, after 0:59:04.800 --> 0:59:07.240 leaving Deaf Jam and stopping doing hip hop for a while, 0:59:07.720 --> 0:59:10.680 I felt, I don't know if I don't know if 0:59:10.680 --> 0:59:13.200 we ever talked about this before, but like when when 0:59:13.240 --> 0:59:15.440 I started making hip hop, it was a very creative 0:59:15.520 --> 0:59:19.080 time in hip hop. Everyone who was doing it was 0:59:19.480 --> 0:59:22.040 finding their own way of doing it. And if you 0:59:22.160 --> 0:59:26.600 listen to the like the master mix shows on BLS 0:59:26.720 --> 0:59:30.720 or HBO or or Kiss at that time, during the 0:59:30.760 --> 0:59:36.320 Deaf Jam time, early the mix shows set, which was 0:59:36.360 --> 0:59:37.880 the only place you heard hip hop by the way, 0:59:37.880 --> 0:59:39.720 it wasn't on the regular station. It would only be 0:59:39.840 --> 0:59:42.720 on the mix show two Baby. So if you listen 0:59:42.720 --> 0:59:45.920 to the mix show, the records didn't sound alike. They 0:59:46.000 --> 0:59:50.920 all sounded different. They were interesting, eclectic takes on what 0:59:51.120 --> 0:59:56.440 hip hop could be. And once the Deaf Jam records 0:59:56.520 --> 0:59:59.919 got very popular, I started listening to the mix show 1:00:00.240 --> 1:00:02.439 and they just started sounding like all our records, whether 1:00:02.520 --> 1:00:05.160 we made them or not, it just felt like it. 1:00:06.120 --> 1:00:09.560 And it felt like, well, this community, this community of 1:00:09.640 --> 1:00:13.760 people making interesting things, isn't doing that anymore. Now. They're 1:00:13.800 --> 1:00:16.800 just trying to follow the one that people liked. And 1:00:17.040 --> 1:00:19.960 that's it's boring. You know. It's like it's almost like 1:00:20.040 --> 1:00:24.040 a conversation, you know, like you you put out something 1:00:24.520 --> 1:00:27.400 and then somebody puts out something you know, maybe not 1:00:27.560 --> 1:00:31.200 inspired by, but like they got a glimpse into what 1:00:31.400 --> 1:00:33.960 was possible. Because it's something you made and then they 1:00:34.040 --> 1:00:38.320 made something completely different and just as interesting, and then 1:00:38.440 --> 1:00:40.560 that would excite you. Was like, oh wow, I never 1:00:40.600 --> 1:00:43.480 thought of it like that. That means that means we 1:00:43.560 --> 1:00:47.120 could go way over here now, right, So it's it's 1:00:47.160 --> 1:00:50.360 a it's like a So I died that part of it, 1:00:50.480 --> 1:00:52.920 died out, died out. So I kind of lost interest 1:00:53.000 --> 1:00:55.360 at that point, and that's when I started making more 1:00:55.440 --> 1:01:02.400 rock records. And then the two um, the two artists 1:01:02.840 --> 1:01:06.680 who got me excited about hip hop again, We're Nwa 1:01:07.280 --> 1:01:10.920 and Moutang. Those were the next lot that was where like, oh, 1:01:12.000 --> 1:01:14.560 somebody cares again, do you know what I mean? Like 1:01:14.680 --> 1:01:19.080 somebody's not just doing the same thing. Someone's their new 1:01:19.200 --> 1:01:24.200 voices and it's exciting. Thank you for that, bro, truth, 1:01:24.640 --> 1:01:27.120 thank you for being one of those people. Because I 1:01:27.240 --> 1:01:30.760 will say what I would say as a producer when 1:01:30.800 --> 1:01:35.080 I thought I was doing or I didn't, and I 1:01:35.200 --> 1:01:39.000 love my hip hop piers. I didn't want nobody to 1:01:39.080 --> 1:01:41.040 say that my record was nothing else for hip hop, 1:01:41.800 --> 1:01:43.920 you know what I mean? I think hip hop aft 1:01:43.920 --> 1:01:48.080 though while we started wanting to be something else, you 1:01:48.160 --> 1:01:50.600 know what I mean? Like you remember people like everybody 1:01:50.600 --> 1:01:52.880 who put a reggae record on their on the album, 1:01:53.120 --> 1:01:56.680 or r B record on the album, or you know, 1:01:56.960 --> 1:02:00.120 because once l May the love song, everybody got niggah. 1:02:00.200 --> 1:02:01.959 So you know, it started, like I said, people started 1:02:02.040 --> 1:02:05.720 cookie cutting. I was like, no category for me but 1:02:05.920 --> 1:02:08.600 hip hop. And I'm gonna give a fuck when nobody's doing. 1:02:09.120 --> 1:02:12.760 I don't care what they're doing. Like, you know, that's 1:02:12.880 --> 1:02:15.200 that's a that's a bold thing. And you and you 1:02:15.240 --> 1:02:17.520 know what I think. You look. I think, as I 1:02:17.800 --> 1:02:20.800 said to myself, you actually lose that. Somewhere down the line. 1:02:20.800 --> 1:02:23.800 I lost that, you know, I lost that, like I said, 1:02:23.800 --> 1:02:26.560 when they started sharing one hundred thousand and beat, you 1:02:26.680 --> 1:02:30.240 know what I mean. And it started being like, you know, 1:02:31.640 --> 1:02:33.240 I guess when the I guess I think when the 1:02:33.320 --> 1:02:35.880 radio graph control again, because the radio had lost control 1:02:35.960 --> 1:02:38.960 for a little while too. When they grabbed control again, 1:02:38.960 --> 1:02:40.520 it was like, you gotta make it for the radio. 1:02:40.600 --> 1:02:43.080 You gotta be on this station. You know, I didn't 1:02:43.080 --> 1:02:46.280 even know, Like I learned later on a high ninety 1:02:46.360 --> 1:02:50.439 seven turned to hip hop station that when they turned 1:02:50.440 --> 1:02:53.160 to hip hop station, it was based on the success 1:02:53.240 --> 1:02:57.400 of Wool. I learned that later. Wow, Yeah, there was 1:02:57.440 --> 1:03:00.960 a dance station, but the woof songs was getting so 1:03:01.080 --> 1:03:04.840 much requested that it helped change their format. Yeah, you 1:03:04.920 --> 1:03:07.560 know what I mean. And and then at a but 1:03:08.240 --> 1:03:10.080 by time we got to nineteen ninety seven, they stopped 1:03:10.120 --> 1:03:12.200 playing well we got to like a war with them. 1:03:12.720 --> 1:03:15.160 But it's like wow, And then we started trying to 1:03:15.240 --> 1:03:19.479 make something or I as a producer, uh rabe around 1:03:19.600 --> 1:03:21.400 nineteen ninety nine, I would say ninety seven, I still 1:03:21.440 --> 1:03:23.160 don't kid, But nineteen ninety nine I started thinking I 1:03:23.240 --> 1:03:25.640 want to make something so they could play it on 1:03:25.720 --> 1:03:30.600 the radio. And it never worked for me because that's 1:03:30.640 --> 1:03:32.520 not why. That's not why you made it in the 1:03:32.560 --> 1:03:35.000 first place. That's not why people like your music in 1:03:35.040 --> 1:03:38.600 the first place. It came from you led the radio. 1:03:39.600 --> 1:03:42.760 They didn't leave you. And but like I said, it's 1:03:42.800 --> 1:03:44.880 a point. I guess. I guess it's a part in 1:03:44.960 --> 1:03:47.040 the artist. I know it's a part in my life. 1:03:47.080 --> 1:03:51.360 That you began you have a doubt. Why you start 1:03:51.520 --> 1:03:55.400 thinking it's I think the world is called conformity. Yeah, 1:03:55.800 --> 1:03:59.000 you begin to conform to what you think is normal, 1:04:00.040 --> 1:04:03.440 and at the end of the day, do a lot 1:04:03.520 --> 1:04:07.400 of yourself or you acself a lot. And I think 1:04:07.480 --> 1:04:11.440 that happened to me, and I think I realized that, 1:04:11.480 --> 1:04:14.640 you know that I stually became creatively weak. If you're 1:04:14.720 --> 1:04:18.040 noticed that after the year two thousand and I had 1:04:18.040 --> 1:04:20.000 a personal thing in my life. You know, I lost 1:04:20.040 --> 1:04:24.080 my mother in the year two thousand, I stopped. I left. 1:04:24.320 --> 1:04:26.520 In two thousand and one, I left New York and 1:04:26.640 --> 1:04:31.320 came to Cally. Basically, I just became friends with Tarantin. 1:04:31.400 --> 1:04:38.200 Though I kind of understood. I just kind of understood 1:04:38.280 --> 1:04:41.240 music theory myself by studying books, and I was like, 1:04:41.280 --> 1:04:42.680 I want to be a composed I had to. I 1:04:42.760 --> 1:04:47.520 had composed postal, took some critical critical got critical success 1:04:47.520 --> 1:04:49.320 out of it. Now I was like, I want to 1:04:49.360 --> 1:04:51.720 do this, and I want to And I ended up 1:04:52.280 --> 1:04:55.680 just composing. From the year two thousand but to two 1:04:55.760 --> 1:04:58.560 thousand and five, all I did was composed movies. And 1:04:58.720 --> 1:05:01.400 then in two thousand and uh five, I guess I 1:05:01.520 --> 1:05:04.600 showed up in a movie and then they said they 1:05:04.720 --> 1:05:07.680 gave me they saw pick me in movies, right and 1:05:07.960 --> 1:05:09.560 uh and then I wanted to be a director, and 1:05:09.560 --> 1:05:11.920 I kind of studied that for like six years, and 1:05:12.040 --> 1:05:14.360 then I became a director. And that's now as a director, 1:05:14.360 --> 1:05:22.000 I would say all my creative energy became stimulated. It 1:05:22.280 --> 1:05:27.640 was my music, my aunt, my visual everything about creativity, 1:05:28.920 --> 1:05:33.200 my writing, it all would stimulate it. It's actually, to me, 1:05:33.920 --> 1:05:38.920 the highest form of creative expression. A director who was 1:05:38.960 --> 1:05:41.960 considered our tour, someone who who asked me writes it 1:05:43.560 --> 1:05:46.800 all that. So I became that right, and I'm glad 1:05:46.880 --> 1:05:49.400 that I did. I'm satisfied in the life that it 1:05:49.480 --> 1:05:53.200 brought me. Um. But it's but after a few years, 1:05:53.280 --> 1:05:55.560 it took me to about two thous took like I said, 1:05:55.600 --> 1:05:59.560 maybe five or six years ago. It's not that moment 1:05:59.600 --> 1:06:04.320 ago that I became creatively free again. Like I don't 1:06:04.360 --> 1:06:09.320 make music for no reason or nobody, but for what 1:06:09.680 --> 1:06:13.080 Rizzo is doing for Rita. But if I want to 1:06:13.120 --> 1:06:17.840 be controlled, I'll go and do a movie. You know 1:06:17.880 --> 1:06:21.200 what I mean. Because in a movie, the character, if 1:06:21.240 --> 1:06:23.920 he's dying, he's dying. Okay, that's what it says in 1:06:24.000 --> 1:06:28.960 the script. Okay. But musically there's no way to control 1:06:29.000 --> 1:06:31.480 me anymore. And I feel grateful that, and I think 1:06:31.480 --> 1:06:33.040 I'm gonna have a sell musically again. I don't know 1:06:33.080 --> 1:06:35.160 what that means far as for a commercial level, that 1:06:35.360 --> 1:06:38.960 it doesn't have to mean nothing. I'm satisfied with the 1:06:39.120 --> 1:06:42.320 idea that it's not an economical need for me to 1:06:42.400 --> 1:06:46.680 do it, and that economically I have found the way 1:06:47.360 --> 1:06:51.600 to to to express art and get economics for it, 1:06:51.680 --> 1:06:55.000 which is my filmmaking commits. Right. It's a great place. 1:06:55.200 --> 1:06:56.800 It's a great place to be. It's a great place 1:06:56.840 --> 1:07:00.520 to be where you can support yourself making art and 1:07:00.680 --> 1:07:04.320 then still be able to examine all of the different 1:07:04.480 --> 1:07:09.000 creative areas that are exciting to you, regardless of whether 1:07:09.040 --> 1:07:13.440 they're you know, whether they're for commercial purposes or not. Right, 1:07:14.040 --> 1:07:16.760 I agree, brother, exactly. How's your relationship with the other 1:07:16.840 --> 1:07:20.480 woo the rest of the woo? Always that peace, always 1:07:20.520 --> 1:07:22.400 that peace. Man. Yeah, well we are, we are, we 1:07:22.520 --> 1:07:27.600 are brotherhood. My best example, right is that I got 1:07:27.680 --> 1:07:31.320 a lawsuit you God issuing me, right, and it's this 1:07:31.760 --> 1:07:33.919 lawsuit been going off for about three years now, maybe 1:07:33.960 --> 1:07:37.400 the fourth year. And we was in Australia last year. 1:07:37.720 --> 1:07:40.280 They did a U tank tour in Australia, Sydney our 1:07:40.360 --> 1:07:44.920 house and he gets there and his credit card isn't working, 1:07:46.520 --> 1:07:49.120 and so I took my credit card to them in 1:07:49.200 --> 1:07:52.240 a suite take care of everything for him, and then 1:07:52.360 --> 1:07:56.000 he was just like only WO could do that, this 1:07:56.240 --> 1:08:00.680 niggasuing you. You're feeding them and lending them money. I said, 1:08:01.080 --> 1:08:04.840 in this business, I love his motherfucker. I love my 1:08:05.000 --> 1:08:08.200 brothers man, and we have that, you know, we we 1:08:08.320 --> 1:08:11.160 have that love for each other. And I think and 1:08:11.280 --> 1:08:14.280 I'm proud, I think our passed to be proud to 1:08:14.440 --> 1:08:17.760 see that this was a community. Wuchang wasn't just a 1:08:18.040 --> 1:08:19.560 you know, a bunch of guys like you know some 1:08:19.720 --> 1:08:21.599 of some a lot of these bands maybe two guys 1:08:21.640 --> 1:08:23.840 didn't know each other or whatever, you know, they put together. No, 1:08:23.960 --> 1:08:29.080 this is a group of men who at minimum twenty 1:08:29.120 --> 1:08:32.280 five thirty year relationships some mere Ray Kuan go back 1:08:32.320 --> 1:08:35.960 to the third grade. Bro. Amazing. Yeah, So that's a 1:08:36.040 --> 1:08:40.160 blessing and it's uh in that part of it permeates 1:08:40.200 --> 1:08:45.280 and seems to you know, trump anything else. Yeah, beautiful man, 1:08:45.920 --> 1:08:49.040 Thank you for talking, brother, Thank you for having me. Man. 1:08:49.640 --> 1:08:52.720 It's a blessing seeing you. Blessing to you, n bum bum, 1:08:52.880 --> 1:08:58.960 Thanks brother Taste. Thanks to Rizzard for catching up with Rick. 1:08:59.360 --> 1:09:01.519 You can hear all of our favorite Rizard produced songs 1:09:01.600 --> 1:09:04.439 by heading to Broken record podcast dot com and be 1:09:04.479 --> 1:09:06.240 sure to check out our YouTube channel. We can find 1:09:06.320 --> 1:09:09.439 some great bonus material from this innerview. You can subscribe 1:09:09.479 --> 1:09:12.640 to our YouTube channel at YouTube slash Broken Record Podcast. 1:09:13.439 --> 1:09:16.439 Broken Record is produced with help from Jason Gambronil Lobell, 1:09:16.760 --> 1:09:20.400 Leah Rose, and Martin Gonzalez for Pushkin Industries. Our theme 1:09:20.479 --> 1:09:23.559 music is by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond. Thanks for listening.