1 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 2 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 3 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 4 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford, 5 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 6 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 7 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope 8 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it 9 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship 10 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so 11 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: much for joining me for session tun ninety four of 12 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: the Therapy for That Girl's Podcast. We'll get right into 13 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:14,479 Speaker 1: our conversation after a word from our sponsors. In recent 14 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: news cycles, there have been a handful of videos trending 15 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: that participate in anti fat rhetoric. These pieces of media 16 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 1: work to diminish the fat acceptance movement, utilizing scare tactics 17 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 1: like shame and ridicule under the guise of tough love 18 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 1: in actuality. These methods of behavior are rooted in fat 19 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: phobia and highlight how much body shaming has been indoctrinated 20 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: into all of us to discuss anti fat bias more 21 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: at length. Today, I'm joined by author, advocate, and yoga 22 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: teacher Jessamine Stanley. As a fat black film navigating the 23 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: predominantly white, able bodied, since gendered world of yoga. Jessaman 24 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: has been her career breaking down barriers in the wellness 25 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: industry and showing that all bodies are worthy. A two 26 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: time author of Everybody to Yoga and Yoke My Yoga 27 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: of Self Acceptance, Gentleman is a living testimony of what 28 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: happens when you make space for yourself and others to 29 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: be seen, heard, and understood. In our conversation, we discuss 30 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: the importance of reclaiming the word fat, the yoga industrial complex, 31 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 1: the power of listening to the teacher that lives inside 32 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: all of us, and how practicing self care and self 33 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: acceptance is an act of service to the community around you. 34 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please 35 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: share with us on social media using the hashtag TBG 36 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: in session or join us over in the sister circles 37 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: To talk more in depth about the episode. You can 38 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 1: join us at community dot therapy for Black Girls dot Com. 39 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: Here's our conversation. Well, I am very excited justentmine. So 40 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 1: thank you for joining us today, Thank you for having me. 41 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 1: I'm really honored to be here with you. Dr George, truly, 42 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you so much. So I want to 43 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,399 Speaker 1: start my hearing from you that there's been so much 44 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: conversation around the word fat, and a lot of your 45 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: work is really about reclaiming the word fat. So can 46 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: you tell us about that. I think that so much 47 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: of what keeps us feeling marginalized and feeling small but 48 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: then ourselves comes from not owning the language that is 49 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: used to hurt us. And I think, especially when it 50 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: comes for me, for the word fat, it feels really 51 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: important because as a fat person, to own that word 52 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: fat means to let go of the ways that society 53 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: has defined the word fat, which don't actually have anything 54 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: to do with what it means to be fat. A 55 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: lot of the like silent definition of that word, it's 56 00:03:55,560 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: ideas like stupid or ugly or bad had fundamentally not good, 57 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: I think, is the way that we are taught to 58 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: believe that fat should be considered. And I definitely have 59 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: bought into this so much in my life and have 60 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: felt like that is the worst thing that I could 61 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: be called to be called fat? And I see it 62 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: all the time, children, adults. So many people afraid to 63 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: use that word and to own it. But when you 64 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 1: own it and you say, yes, I'm fat, what does 65 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: fat actually mean? Fat means large? Okay, I'm large. That 66 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that I'm not worth while. It doesn't mean 67 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: that I don't deserve to exist. So if i'm if 68 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,239 Speaker 1: it's okay to be fat, Let's suppose that it's okay 69 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: to be fat, then what can I do? Now? Where 70 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: can my life take me? What can I own in 71 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: my own being? How am I allowed to see myself 72 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: when I accept all of who I am? And So 73 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: I think that reclamation of the word fat and not curvy, 74 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: not big body, not plus size, really owning fact. You're 75 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: not just decolonizing yourself, but you're making space for society 76 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 1: to change as well, for us to look at each 77 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: other differently, yes, but also for fat phobic standards and 78 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: practices to be reevaluated, and for us to live together 79 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: in more harmony. And ultimately, I think that it's for 80 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: healing on a collective scale. M I completely agree with you. 81 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: You know, just when when I think about like the 82 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: people in this space doing this work, like you come 83 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: to the top of mind. I feel like you are 84 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: one of the pioneers in this space, and I wonder 85 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: if you'd be comfortable with sharing, you know, just kind 86 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: of like how you even got into this work, and 87 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: like what kinds of things have helped you to really 88 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: kind of reclaim that that word for yourself and for 89 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 1: the community. You know. One of the things that has 90 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: helped me is knowing that I am not I feel 91 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: like I am one of the young bloods on this trail. 92 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: I feel like I am living in a legacy of 93 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: so many people, and that acceptance is something that has 94 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 1: been championed for a long time in many different ways, 95 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 1: and I think that we're coming to a place where 96 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: where we can start to see the long reaching effects 97 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 1: and impact. Because when I first started sharing my yoga 98 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 1: practice on social media, this was getting on ten years ago. Now. 99 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,799 Speaker 1: I started doing that because I really did not see 100 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: a lot of people who looked like me practicing yoga 101 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 1: in general, not just online. And in the time since then, 102 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: I have seen such tremendous change, not just in the 103 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: number of people who are living their best lives, it's 104 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: not even about yoga, really, it's people just being inspired 105 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: to do their thing and be happy, but also just 106 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 1: a general conversation about it. It has become a much 107 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: more mainstream topic, and I think that if you look 108 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: at advertising and compare it to ten years ago, it 109 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: is significantly more diverse and accessible overall. And I think 110 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: that can be tied to fat acceptance into specifically to 111 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: the waves of activism on the internet. But I do 112 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: think that there is a lot of whitewashing is the 113 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: first phrase that comes to mind for me. But I 114 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: think there's still plenty of work for us to do, 115 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: and I think that it always starts on the individual level. 116 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: And I think that what I'm noticing more now is 117 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: people wanting to jump on the bandwagon. And that's great, awesome, 118 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: But when you jump on the bandwagon, know that that 119 00:07:55,840 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: ride starts within your heart and really accepting the fat 120 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: phobia that lives within you. Mm hmmm. So just when 121 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: I wonder if you can talk a little bit about, 122 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: you know, some of the ways we may be kind 123 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: of practicing or thinking in fat phobic ways that we 124 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: may not even be aware of. Goodness, thank you so 125 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: much for asking. I think that is something that it's 126 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: hard to notice, right Like, I feel like it's really 127 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: hard to see the ways that we are harmful to ourselves, 128 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: the things that we say to ourselves. And I think 129 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: that what was really helpful for me was starting a 130 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 1: practice in which I had to look at myself. And 131 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: that is something that you know, frankly, was really challenging 132 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: for me. There are whole years of my life where 133 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: I don't have any pictures of myself, like barely any 134 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: because I thought that I didn't deserve to be photographed. 135 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: And it doesn't mean sharing the photos with anybody, it 136 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: doesn't mean you don't mean anything, but just looking at yourself. 137 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: And I do think it's different than looking in the mirror. 138 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: I think that when you take an image of yourself 139 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: and you look at it, and the first thing that 140 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: happens for me is that I start talking cash it 141 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:16,079 Speaker 1: about myself. I'm like, look at my chins, look in 142 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: my arms, all my belly, all these things that are 143 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: running in a tape in my head every time that 144 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: I look at my reflection, but I can't see it 145 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: until I pause. And so you take that moment to pause, 146 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: and then you say, is that really how I few 147 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: Do I really feel like there's something wrong with my chins? 148 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: Is there really something wrong with my belly? So that's 149 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: always been the first step for me recently everything in 150 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: that it's really cool to also in that place right 151 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: down those ideas and to really like engage with them 152 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: and see it written down and see like in my 153 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: own penmanship, is that true to me? Does that really 154 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: matter to me? Because I think that sometimes we're like 155 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: not having that actual conversation with ourselves about like how 156 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: it feels. And I want to give a more specific 157 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: example because this is something that happens to me literally 158 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: every day. But I noticed it pretty early on in 159 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: my yoga practice especially. I would like exercise really hard, 160 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: and then I would want to go eat, and I 161 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: just want to eat like everything, and so I I 162 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: would like go the whole food top aer and like 163 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: pup my food on my plate, and I'd just be 164 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,199 Speaker 1: like thinking, judging myself, judging the things that I was 165 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: going to eat. And it wasn't until I literally stopped 166 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: and said, Wow, is that something that I really think 167 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: or is that something that I think I should think? 168 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: Am I thinking about the person who's standing across from me? 169 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: Wondering if they're looking at my food and wondering if 170 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: what I should be eating. Maybe I've inspired them to 171 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: get macaroni and cheese. Why do I even know? Why? 172 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: Am I projecting my ideas? But it takes that stopping 173 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: and just actually asking the question. So I do think 174 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,080 Speaker 1: that having a practice where like you literally have to 175 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: look at yourself is really helpful, but just as a 176 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: general practice that can be used in other parts of 177 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 1: your life too. I think more common is when you're 178 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 1: sharing space with loved ones or with friends partners. It's 179 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: always with family members and friends that it's the hardest 180 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: to like really look at the ways that we're shaming ourselves. 181 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: Let's say you get dressed in an outfit and you're like, 182 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: I love this outfit. I'm feeling so good, and then 183 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:32,199 Speaker 1: you go around your friends or your family, and then 184 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you don't love your outfit anymore, 185 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: and now you're not good enough and why do I 186 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: even think that I should wear this? And before you 187 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: go down the spiral to just say wow, is this 188 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: really how I feel? Or is this how I think 189 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: that someone else is feeling? So that as the first 190 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: step I think is crucial. But then I think what 191 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: happens as a byproduct of that is looking critically at 192 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: the people who are around you and what what do 193 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: they make you feel? I think that we don't always 194 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 1: notice the impact that our loved ones really have on us, 195 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: and that if you are spending time with people who 196 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,599 Speaker 1: they themselves are fat phobic or hate themselves, really fundamentally, 197 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: that's what they're offering to you as well, and maybe 198 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: offering it with sincerity and love and deep authenticity, but 199 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:29,319 Speaker 1: that energy is palpable, and it's just important to to 200 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: note the fielding, not even saying that like you shouldn't 201 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: spend time with your mother, your siblings, or your lovers, 202 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: your domestic partners, your spouse, your friends, just acknowledging that 203 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: you are separate from them and that how you feel 204 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: is most important. That feels like the way to me 205 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: to really start to notice the body shaming loop that 206 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: lives inside of all of us. And I think there's 207 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: a thing where it's like it's only for some people, 208 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: are like this is a fat people issue. No, this 209 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,559 Speaker 1: is everybody m you know. Recently, you know, it feels 210 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: like there have been at least a handful of videos 211 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: that talk about the whole fat acceptance moving right and 212 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 1: people kind of being comfortable with their bodies with wherever 213 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: they are, and talking about how that promotes not great 214 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 1: health or or releading people down the wrong path. And 215 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: so what do you feel like people are missing in 216 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: this argument? I think that what people are missing is 217 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: that if you start from a place of self love 218 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 1: and self acceptance, you are able to go much further 219 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: than if you start from a place of shame and hatred. 220 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 1: And a lot of rhetoric around health is about shaming 221 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: and trying to shame people into changing their bodies and 222 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: caring about their health. But scare tactics here, and it's 223 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: just not effective for long term change. It doesn't make 224 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: people healthier, it doesn't make big change. And I do 225 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: think that we as a society need to have a 226 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: deeper conversation around health and I don't believe that shame 227 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: and hatred is the way to get there. Yeah, I 228 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:03,319 Speaker 1: completely agree with you. I think you know a lot 229 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 1: of people who jump on this tough love bandwagon, but 230 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,079 Speaker 1: it's not super effective. Like you mentioned, it doesn't need 231 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:13,559 Speaker 1: to long lasting changes. Yeah, it's I mean, I do 232 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: think that there is there's so much that we need 233 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: to discuss about access to information, about access to healthy food, 234 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: about trauma, about longstanding systemic problems in our society. But 235 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: I think that the short argument of fat is bad, 236 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: You're bad if you're fat, it just doesn't make change. 237 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: More from my conversation with Desmine after the break, you know, 238 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: just on something that I think about a lot, and 239 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: you kind of brought it to mind when you said, 240 00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: you know, we don't want to talk about curvy and 241 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: body positive and all of that stuff. And I often 242 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: wonder do you think that in the black community we 243 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: have struggled with fat acceptance in the same ways, because 244 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about just you know, the women in our 245 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: families like typically are larger right until to me, it 246 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: doesn't feel like historically there was a concern around fat acceptance, 247 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: although it feels like there is now. I'm wondering if 248 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: you can help me tease out my thoughts here. Oh goodness, 249 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: I am so grateful to be on therapy for black 250 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: girls so that we can really talk about this because 251 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: so I grew up in the South. My mother's fat, 252 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: my aunts are fat, my grandmother was fat. Everybody it's 253 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: just a part of our lives. I don't remember anybody 254 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: using the word fat, but I definitely know that I 255 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: understood them to be beautiful. They, though I know now, 256 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: did not see themselves as beautiful in the way that 257 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: I just assumed that they were, you know. And I 258 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: think that what really what has happened is that we 259 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: are all so susceptible to patriarchal, white supremacist beauty standards, 260 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: and that those have seeped in. And I think that 261 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: especially in the age of social media, wherein those standards 262 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: I think are often heralded even more than they ever 263 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: have been. I think that's why it's a topic of 264 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: conversation now in the black community. I mean, to your point, like, 265 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: what it means to be a strong, powerful Black person 266 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: has never not meant being large. It has always that's 267 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: always by a piece of the puzzle. So I think 268 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: it's the impact of white supremacy. And I also think 269 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: that the body acceptance movement and fat acceptance have really 270 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: been on the backs of black women truly, and black 271 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:05,360 Speaker 1: creators especially. And also I would say black sex workers specifically, 272 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,959 Speaker 1: thank you for then helping me tease that out a 273 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: little bit. So you know, I do want to spend 274 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: some time talking about these incredible books that you have written. 275 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: So your first book was Everybody Yoga, So I'd love 276 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: you to tell us a little bit about that for 277 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: people who maybe haven't checked it out, and to talk about, 278 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: you know, how your own yoga practice then led to 279 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: you giving us this offering of the book. I wrote 280 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: Everybody Yoga because I had so many people reaching out 281 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: to me asking how do I start practicing yoga? What 282 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: match should I get? Where should I go? I was like, 283 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: why are you asking me? There's literally so many resources 284 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: about yoga, and like I was like, you should just 285 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 1: type in how do I start practicing yoga? And then 286 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: I realized that if you do that, there is so 287 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: much conflicting information. It's confusing. Should people who are not 288 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: South Asian even be practicing yoga? What are the lines here? 289 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,360 Speaker 1: And so I wrote Everybody Yoga so that anyone who 290 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: has that question of like how do I start practicing 291 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: yoga can just open up that book literally get it 292 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 1: anywhere the books are sold. You can go from the 293 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: first page to practicing down and facing dog by the 294 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,199 Speaker 1: end like it will. It lays out the practice in 295 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: such a way where it's accessible to anyone who needs 296 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 1: yoga in their life. Something I think that gets in 297 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: the way of starting a yoga practice is feeling like 298 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: I don't have the right tools, or I'm not flexible enough, 299 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 1: or how do I make space and time for this 300 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: in my life? And I really found my yoga practice 301 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:40,880 Speaker 1: through trauma. My yoga practice really intensified after my aunt 302 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,640 Speaker 1: passed away. And I think that a lot of times 303 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: people think that you have to if you're really into yoga, 304 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 1: maybe you're like really flexible, like a gymnast or something, 305 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: and you like have all of this excess energy. And 306 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 1: I find that if you're really into yoga, something that 307 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: happened where you're like trying to work it out and 308 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: figure out what happened. So I think that the for me, 309 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: the biggest thing to really intensify it was leaning into 310 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,719 Speaker 1: my pain and letting that lead the way. And I 311 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: started practicing yoga at home because I could not afford 312 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: to practice yoga in studios. And that's something that I think. 313 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: There are a lot of barriers to entrgue for yoga practice, 314 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 1: often or perceived barriers to intrigue, but really what everybody 315 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: yoga offers is the idea that you don't need to 316 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: go out to a studio. You can definitely practice online classes, 317 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: you can do it every want. But if you solidify 318 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: a home practice and start to listen to the teacher 319 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: that lives inside of you, then you can carry that 320 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 1: practice through every part of your life, through every moment, 321 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: every of every down, and it will allow you to 322 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: come home to the fact that life is changed, that 323 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: there's always change, and that it's okay for that change 324 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: to data. And So your newest book, Yoke is my 325 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 1: yoga of self acceptance. So I would love for you 326 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: the first start by talking with us about the title. 327 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: Why that title? What is Yoke? So I realized way 328 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 1: after the book came out that Yoka sounds like woke yoga, 329 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: like running those ideas together, and like I had never 330 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:26,400 Speaker 1: even considered that. It's like I started writing Yoke really 331 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 1: while I was writing Everybody Yoga, because I realized that 332 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: in Everybody Yoga, I really wasn't talking about all of 333 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: what yoga is. I was talking about like how to 334 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: get into yoga postures, but really the meat and potatoes 335 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: of the yoga practice happens within yourself after you are 336 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 1: practicing whatever postures are going to practice, and for me, 337 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: that has meant engaging with the hard edges of my identity. 338 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: I think of it as the yoga of everyday life, 339 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: but the yoga that lives at the intersection of our identities, 340 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: the cross sections and yoke, it's like my I've thought 341 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: of it is like my ratchet. Millennial American translation of 342 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: the word yoga, yoga literally means to to yoke. It 343 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: means to draw together, to bring together union. And so 344 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: I always think of yoga, especially the yoga of everyday life, 345 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: is being yoking. That you're just bringing together things that 346 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: do not make sense. And it's like, how are these 347 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: things supposed to go together? How does capitalism and teaching 348 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 1: yoga go together? That don't seem like that matches, but 349 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: it needs to. So we need to yok What does 350 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,160 Speaker 1: it mean to sledg shame yourself? That is a hard edge, 351 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 1: that is a cross section? What does that mean? What 352 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 1: does it mean to practice yoga? As an American? This 353 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: is let's bring these things together. So yoga is all 354 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: about bringing together the parts of yourself that cause conflict, 355 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: that caused grief, that make it hard to accept yourself. 356 00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: But ultimately we yoke to find acceptance, to find the union, 357 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: to find harmony, and so truly the purpose of the 358 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: book is to bring you to a place of self 359 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: acceptance where it's okay to be messy and it's okay 360 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: to have made a mistake. So you touched on this 361 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 1: a little bit just now, but I would love to 362 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 1: hear because in the book you talk a lot about 363 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: the American yoga complex. So can you break that down 364 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 1: for us a little bit more? Oh my goodness, the 365 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 1: yoga industrial complex. I just think of it as this 366 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 1: machine that is really about capitalism. It is about commerce, 367 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: and that's a lot of what America is. It's built 368 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: on white supremacy and that shows up in the American 369 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: yoga experience so much and in the yoga industrial complex. 370 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,640 Speaker 1: And then that has become the standard by which we 371 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: judge a yoga practice is what does it look like? 372 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 1: What clothes are you wearing, what retreat did you go on, 373 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 1: what studio do you practice at? And that really has 374 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: nothing to do with the yoking, the bringing together of 375 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: the hard parts, the acceptance of identity. And there's so 376 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: much to be learned when we take a step back 377 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 1: from the yoga industrial complex and just lean into the practice. 378 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 1: Mainly that we have an opportunity. Again, I'm always thinking about, like, 379 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 1: how can we be using our individual experiences towards the 380 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: greater good? That the practice of self care and self 381 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: acceptance is really an active service to others, And so 382 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: much of what our collective yoga practice offers the world 383 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 1: is healing. Self acceptance on a global scale is an 384 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 1: opportunity for us to all transform. It's an opportunity for 385 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: us to move as a society from an obsession with fear. 386 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: Right now, we're in a moment of deep fear and panic, 387 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: everyone worried constantly, and for us to start to move 388 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: into a place where compassion and love are our motivators. 389 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: That requires this individual practice of acceptance. And so the 390 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 1: yoking and the yoga industrial complex, I think all roads 391 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: lead to the same place. And so while I am 392 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: very critical of the yoga industrial complex, very critical of 393 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: the American yoga practice, I think that ultimately it does 394 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: lead us forward, and does lead us even in the 395 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 1: four bowls, even in the hypocrisy, often, even in the xenophobia, 396 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: often that there is an opportunity for us to hear 397 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: each other better and to be more present in this moment. 398 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,160 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's I think it's something also that people 399 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 1: are afraid to talk about because of fear of being 400 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 1: wrong or getting the wrong answer, have being part of 401 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 1: the problem. But I think that there's no way to 402 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: be a part of the solution without accepting where you are. 403 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: Isn't that such a weird irony, Like people are so 404 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: afraid to talk about it because they don't want to 405 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: be a part of the problem, But then not talking 406 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: about it is actually the problems exactly right, literally, and 407 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: it's in so many things more. From my conversation with 408 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: Desmine after the break, he said, you've also been really 409 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 1: vocal about talking about your experiences as a fat firm 410 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 1: in the yoga community. Can you say a little bit 411 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: more about, you know, what that has been like and 412 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,199 Speaker 1: how you've kind of taken care of yourself and managed 413 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: to kind of keep going with everything that has happened. 414 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: You know what my experience as a fat film in 415 00:25:55,880 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: the predominantly white, able bodied sister under yoga world, what 416 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: it has taught me is that so many of us 417 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: are operating from a place of fear, and that to 418 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 1: see someone embody and live in a way that is 419 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: counter to what society has told us. Society has always 420 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: said that being fat certainly is just bad and you 421 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,360 Speaker 1: should not be doing that in general, but especially fat 422 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 1: in athletic environment. Yoga is often categorized as I think 423 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: of it as spirituality ultimately, but it's very often labeled 424 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 1: as fitness, and so within the fitness industry, there's a 425 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:44,880 Speaker 1: lot of hardline fat phobia. And when you add black 426 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 1: to fat, that means that there is like zero point 427 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: zero respect. There is the semblance of respect. It is tokenism, 428 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 1: it's fetichization, and that is something that I have experienced extensively, 429 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: and it's one of the things that has come along 430 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: with standing on this platform is that I have had 431 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: incredible opportunities to be a part of campaigns with so 432 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 1: many brands that have global reach, so that my physical 433 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: form has been on the side of buildings and billboards 434 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: in countries literally all over the world. And that has 435 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: really made me think a lot about what it means 436 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: to be fetishized and to be tokenized, to live as 437 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: a token, and what visibility means, and what accessibility means, 438 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,919 Speaker 1: and the opportunity for change that comes through that, and 439 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: the opportunity for other people to see themselves and to 440 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: feel recognized and important. And that is really my biggest 441 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 1: takeaway that what's most important is the collective and that 442 00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 1: if there's an opportunity for even one other person to 443 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,880 Speaker 1: feel less alone, than that is an opportunity worth taking. 444 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,360 Speaker 1: But I would say that in general, especially working with 445 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: my community, the Underbelly, it is a yoga community where 446 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 1: you can practice yoga with me all over the world 447 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: at any time of day online. Being in that space 448 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: as an entrepreneur and as a fat black film in 449 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 1: an industry where white centric beauty standards are the norm, 450 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: it really feels like a call to action. I think 451 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 1: about Danny lu Hammer, I think about Rosa Parks, I 452 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: think about my grandma. I think about the legacy. I 453 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: think about the importance of us standing up and being 454 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: ourselves and doing it, scared, doing it while not waiting 455 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: for solid ground to move forward, and knowing that there's 456 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: a brighter day ahead. Thank you for sharing it. So's 457 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: something else that you shared, and I was very excited 458 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: to see that she shared on your Instagram that you 459 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: had used our therapist directory to connect with the therapist. 460 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: So can you say a little bit about how therapy 461 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: has helped you both with self acceptance but also as 462 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: a part of your work, Like you're talking about being 463 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: visible and like all of this groundbreaking work that you're 464 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: doing that of course needs some support. So how has 465 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: therapy been useful to you in that way? I have 466 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: to tell you that this literally is why I was 467 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: so excited to come on the show, because Therapy for 468 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: Black Girls has been so influential in my life. Even 469 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: prior to using the service myself, I know that it 470 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: was a huge part of how my best friend was 471 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: able to find her therapist and her therapy practice is 472 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: why my therapy practice began. So just starting from that place, 473 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: I'm so grateful. What ended up happening is that I've 474 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: been to therapy a couple of times in the past, 475 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: not enjoyed it for a variety of reasons. But I 476 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: came to a place in my life last year where 477 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: I was really struggling to bring together the different pieces 478 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: of my life. It was right after Yoke came out 479 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: and I was going into a huge transition in my 480 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: life where I was scaling my businesses literally have this 481 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: book out, and then at the exact same time, my 482 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: partner I had been living with. I have two partners 483 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: on polyamorous and this is something that if you're interested 484 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: in polymory. I have a podcast called Dear Jessamine where 485 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: we talk about polyamory and what it means to be 486 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: in polyamorous relationship. But at that time, I was living 487 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: in a house with two of my partners, one of 488 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: whom I had been living with for almost ten years, 489 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: and we were deciding to separate, not to separate in partnership, 490 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: but to stop living together physically. And then on top 491 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: of that, me and my creative partner, we're moving into 492 00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: an RV to start living on the road, and all 493 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: of those things coinciding at the same week of the 494 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: book launch. My friend was like, you know therapy, have 495 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: you heard of it? I think you should try it. 496 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: So I started seeing a therapist and she was so, 497 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I do not know this past year how 498 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: I would have made it to this place had it 499 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: not been for that practice of just really required self reflection, 500 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: like just that's just what we're gonna do today. It's 501 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: for an hour and we're just gonna reflect. That as 502 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: a practice was very new to me because I had 503 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: not really valued I think the connection just with another 504 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: human being, of them receiving my truth and reflecting it 505 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: back to me. And I came to a place with 506 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: my therapist wherein so so my partner and I were 507 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 1: full time rving and we finally landed in northern California. 508 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: And when we got to Northern California and it became 509 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: clear that I was going to stay here for a while, 510 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: my therapist, who was based in my home state of 511 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: North Carolina, she suggested that I find a therapist in 512 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: the area closer to me. She recommended therapy for black girls. 513 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: Though I would say that it was gonna be it's 514 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: like my only I feel like y'all are if you're 515 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: black and FM it's I got it. That's this is 516 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: wheren't going I don't, but I love being able to filter, 517 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: especially like as a queer person, I'm very kinky as 518 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: a polyamorous person and polyamorous with longstanding relationships. It was 519 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: really important to me to find a therapist who was 520 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: comfortable with that. And what I found was that all 521 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: the different pieces of me could also be pulled into 522 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: that as well. That I could find a therapist who 523 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: speaks in astrology the way that I speak in astrology, 524 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: and who who respects to row and ancient practices, and 525 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: also who as a creator can help me through expressive 526 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: arts therapy really find the modalities to communicate my truth 527 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: so that I can do that self reflection. And I 528 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 1: think that as an entrepreneur who wears so many different hats, 529 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: that being able to just take a half off and 530 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: look at it all the way around that has been 531 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: really really helpful. What it has brought to my life 532 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: truly is beyond what I think words could easily express. 533 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: I love that. I'm so happy that you were able 534 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: to connect with that person, because that is what we 535 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 1: would love to hear, right people having these kinds of 536 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 1: transformative experiences because of therapist. I appreciate you shearing that. 537 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 1: I appreciate you. I am so grateful. Thank you. So 538 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: Who are some of the other fat voices and leaders 539 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: that have helped you to kind of paint the world 540 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: that you want to see? Man, there are so many 541 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: people out here doing this work right now, and I 542 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: am so grateful to be in community with all of them. 543 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: But I always feel like when I think about the 544 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: people who had it not been for them, I would 545 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: not have even been on this road, especially as a 546 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: yoga teacher and as a black woman. I think about 547 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: Diane Bondy and the work that she has done as 548 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 1: a yoga teacher that has been even before I started 549 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 1: practicing yoga. I remember seeing pictures of her and just 550 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: feeling so empowered and so grateful, because really, it's not 551 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 1: even about speaking, it's not about rhetoric, it's not about 552 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,760 Speaker 1: trying to tell anybody else what to do. It's literally 553 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: just being visible in your own body and doing your 554 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:35,800 Speaker 1: thing unapologetically. And she was so inspirational for me. Also 555 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: an I guess Jelly, who is the founder of Curvy Yoga. 556 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: I would not be doing any of this without her. 557 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,880 Speaker 1: But when I first started exploring that acceptance and that positivity, 558 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 1: I was drawn to the work of Marianne Kirby and 559 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 1: Leslie Kencel and they used to do this podcast back 560 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 1: in the day called two Whole Cakes and they have 561 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 1: a book called Two Whole Cakes. Also Us Baker, the 562 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: Militant Baker. She has written extensively about fat acceptance and 563 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 1: Virgil Tovar as well. There are so many people who 564 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: have like just written books that are their own experience. 565 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 1: It's not really about trying to create a system for 566 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: anyone else to follow. I think it's the power and 567 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,320 Speaker 1: the impact for me has been through the personal lives 568 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:30,799 Speaker 1: of people who have decided to stop feeling disempowered by 569 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 1: the world around them and who have recognized the power 570 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 1: that lives within them. And I don't know where I 571 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 1: would be or who I would be without them. It 572 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: sounds like some great people to look up, so it 573 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 1: will definitely be SHURELD include links to their resources in 574 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,880 Speaker 1: the our show notes. So as we prepare to close, Jasmine, 575 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,240 Speaker 1: I would love it if you could share some morning 576 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 1: mantras that you can share with our community that can 577 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: really help them to kind of practice in the morning 578 00:35:55,640 --> 00:36:00,320 Speaker 1: to take good care of themselves. Well. The first intra 579 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: that I think of is from a song by Cia 580 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: called The Church of What's Happening Now, and in it 581 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:12,759 Speaker 1: she says, throw away yesterday. Today is a brand new day. 582 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: And I think of that every day that you just restart, 583 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 1: it's not a big deal. And even in the middle 584 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: of the day, in that moment where it's like I 585 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 1: cannot go forward in that moment, saying throw away yesterday, 586 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 1: throw away that past moment. Just today is the day 587 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 1: and I often find myself saying I am enough, I 588 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: am enough, saying it as slowly as possible, ramping it 589 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,800 Speaker 1: up to say it faster, just over and over again 590 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: throughout the day, especially in those moments where there's a 591 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:59,239 Speaker 1: question of is this enough? Am I doing enough? To remember? 592 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 1: Always enough, whatever it is that I'm bringing to the table, 593 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,319 Speaker 1: it is enough. I am enough. Beautiful, Those feels like 594 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 1: great ones to put on our sticky notes in our 595 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 1: bathroom windows or the mirrors to remind ourselves. So, Jesmine, 596 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,239 Speaker 1: where can we stay connected with you and all the 597 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: incredible things that you are doing. What is your website 598 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 1: as well as any social media handles you'd like to share. 599 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 1: You can find me on social media at my name 600 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 1: is Jessamin and you can find me on Twitter at 601 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:33,759 Speaker 1: Jessamin's stand. But you can find my books, you can 602 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:38,360 Speaker 1: find my podcasts, you can find the Underbelly which is 603 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: also at the underbelly dot com and at the Underbelly 604 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 1: Yoga that you can find all the resources about me 605 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: at Jessamine Stanley dot com. Act Well, thank you so 606 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,359 Speaker 1: much for sharing with us today, Jessin, I really appreciate it. 607 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:58,319 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me, Dr Joy. I'm 608 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 1: so glad Jessamine was able to join us today to 609 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,760 Speaker 1: learn more about her and the incredible work that she's doing. 610 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 1: Be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for 611 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash session to and don't forget 612 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,239 Speaker 1: to text two of your girls right now and tell 613 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: them to check out the episode. If you're looking for 614 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,320 Speaker 1: a therapist in your area, check out our therapist directory 615 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,719 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And 616 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 1: if you want to continue digging into this topic or 617 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 1: just be in community with other sisters, come on over 618 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 1: and join us in The Sister Circle is our cozy 619 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,319 Speaker 1: corner of the Internet designed just for black women. You 620 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: can join us at community dot Therapy for Black Girls 621 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 1: dot com. This episode was produced by Freda Lucas and 622 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,880 Speaker 1: Elise Ellis and editing was done by Dennis and Bradford. 623 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,800 Speaker 1: Thank you' all so much for joining me again this week. 624 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 1: I look forward to continue in this conversation with you 625 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,879 Speaker 1: all real soon. Take it care