1
00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,720
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

2
00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,320
Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

3
00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:08,600
Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

4
00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,719
Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

5
00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:13,400
Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give.

6
00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,239
Speaker 3: You, guys, the best independent coverage that is possible.

7
00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:18,279
Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

8
00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,840
Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

9
00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:32,640
Speaker 2: let's get to the show.

10
00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:40,000
Speaker 3: Good morning, everybody, Happy Thursday. We have an amazing show

11
00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:40,680
Speaker 3: for everybody today.

12
00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:42,400
Speaker 1: What do we have, Crystal, Indeed, we do lots to

13
00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:44,159
Speaker 1: get to you this morning. We have the latest fallout

14
00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,040
Speaker 1: over that alleged strike on the Kremlin. Will tell you

15
00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:48,879
Speaker 1: what we know about all of that. We also have

16
00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,840
Speaker 1: another bank that may be teetering on the brink of failure.

17
00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,800
Speaker 1: This comes as the Fed hikes interest rate rates yet

18
00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,600
Speaker 1: again and we face down the dead ceiling deadlines. So

19
00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:59,800
Speaker 1: there's a lot going on in terms of the economy.

20
00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,920
Speaker 1: We have new details about exactly who Jeffrey Epstein was

21
00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,360
Speaker 1: hanging out with and how often. Larry Summers I have

22
00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,640
Speaker 1: some questions for you, and a new effort by our

23
00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,280
Speaker 1: friends over at Media matters to paint wanting debates as

24
00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,880
Speaker 1: being right wing. You're gonna love this one. You're gonna

25
00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,120
Speaker 1: love this one. Also excited to talk to you be

26
00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,160
Speaker 1: Ben Smith in the show. He has a new book

27
00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,679
Speaker 1: out and he's talking about you know, he was with BuzzFeed.

28
00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:26,600
Speaker 1: BuzzFeed obviously has gone under. He was part of that

29
00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,560
Speaker 1: whole twenty tens media build up. Very insightful guy. He's

30
00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:31,640
Speaker 1: got his own new media company now, so I want

31
00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,040
Speaker 1: to hear from him about the failures there, lessons learned,

32
00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:36,800
Speaker 1: how we can keep from you know, any cautionary tales

33
00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:37,840
Speaker 1: that we should learn from there.

34
00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:38,360
Speaker 3: That's right.

35
00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:40,200
Speaker 2: Before we get to that, I want to say, once

36
00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,600
Speaker 2: again just thank you to everybody who's been signing up

37
00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,400
Speaker 2: for the premium subscription, who's been helping us out, building

38
00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:47,280
Speaker 2: out the new studio, paying for the new lives. We've

39
00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,160
Speaker 2: just got some exciting news, some big technological developments that

40
00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,120
Speaker 2: we'll be able to debut to all of you, and

41
00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:53,760
Speaker 2: it does just mean the world to all of us.

42
00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,800
Speaker 2: And once again, Monthly members, we love you, We love

43
00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,000
Speaker 2: the Yearly, we love the Lifetime, We love anybody who

44
00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,320
Speaker 2: is willing to help us out currently at this time,

45
00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,040
Speaker 2: so if you are able at Breakingpoints dot com and

46
00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:05,600
Speaker 2: for those who are asking, as I've said before, we

47
00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,440
Speaker 2: do have a donation button which is there on the website.

48
00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:10,000
Speaker 3: We appreciate it very much and I.

49
00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,120
Speaker 2: Just want people to understand too, you know, the studio,

50
00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:13,760
Speaker 2: it's not like this is the end all be all.

51
00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:15,640
Speaker 2: This is just you know, one more step in the

52
00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,720
Speaker 2: phase that we go to. Everything that we're doing is

53
00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,160
Speaker 2: about building things up for the twenty twenty four election cycle,

54
00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,360
Speaker 2: to be able to expand coverage, to be able to

55
00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,400
Speaker 2: expand partnerships, you know, report so much of the things

56
00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,280
Speaker 2: that we can do. So we're starting with the studio,

57
00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:31,680
Speaker 2: but don't worry, you know, everything will continue to scale.

58
00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,000
Speaker 2: We're a startup company and we build everything by blocks,

59
00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,359
Speaker 2: not like some of these other idiot media companies, which

60
00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,880
Speaker 2: we will be talking to Ben Smith about. Yes, yeah, indeed,

61
00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,000
Speaker 2: all right, let's start off with Ukraine. So obviously Emily

62
00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,520
Speaker 2: and Ryan did a great job yesterday of talking about

63
00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:48,639
Speaker 2: what was going on in the alleged attack on the Kremlin,

64
00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,040
Speaker 2: potentially an assassination attempt, that's what the Russians are claiming

65
00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,720
Speaker 2: by the Ukrainian intelligence services on Vladimir Putin's life. Well,

66
00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:01,560
Speaker 2: in terms of what we know about both reaction by

67
00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,600
Speaker 2: the Russians and then the initial denials by the Ukrainians,

68
00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,560
Speaker 2: here's what we have so far. President Zelenski of Ukraine

69
00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,320
Speaker 2: was actually in Finland when the attack happened, and he

70
00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,679
Speaker 2: addressed the allegation on camera in English.

71
00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:14,760
Speaker 3: Here's what he had to say.

72
00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:24,760
Speaker 4: We don't attack Putchin or Moscow. We find on our territory,

73
00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:29,920
Speaker 4: we're defending our religious insidd we don't have you know,

74
00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,960
Speaker 4: enough weapon for these That's why we don't use.

75
00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,600
Speaker 3: It anywhere for us. That is the deficit.

76
00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:42,040
Speaker 4: We con'tpand it and we didn't attack Putin.

77
00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,760
Speaker 5: We leave it to tribunal.

78
00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,720
Speaker 2: Just gonna say, I would say it begs belief just

79
00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,040
Speaker 2: because and we'll get into this in a little bit

80
00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,160
Speaker 2: about the way that they are specifically phrasing their denials.

81
00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,760
Speaker 2: But I think it's also just worth for anybody who's

82
00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:02,800
Speaker 2: just joining us and hasn't seen the video. This is

83
00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,960
Speaker 2: some crazy video in downtown Moscow. Let's go and put

84
00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,320
Speaker 2: this up there on the screen. I mean, what we

85
00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,160
Speaker 2: are watching here is this. You know, this is the

86
00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,119
Speaker 2: heart of power inside of Russia. And you can see

87
00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,960
Speaker 2: a drone very clearly coming and striking the flag which

88
00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,440
Speaker 2: is on top of the domed building there. And actually

89
00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,080
Speaker 2: whenever there's some zoomed out photos and video of this crystal,

90
00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,039
Speaker 2: you literally watched the drone fly pass the Kremlin, the

91
00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,960
Speaker 2: entire seat of power and all legitimacy of authority in Russia,

92
00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,320
Speaker 2: before exploding on top of the flag. The Russians claimed

93
00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,600
Speaker 2: that anti aircraft was used to blow up other drones

94
00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:41,200
Speaker 2: that were in the area. There's again, the circumstances around

95
00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,120
Speaker 2: all of this are unclear. I want to go back

96
00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,280
Speaker 2: to though, the initial denial, the denial now by the

97
00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,200
Speaker 2: Ukrainian regime. Let's go and put this up there on

98
00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,679
Speaker 2: the screen. And this was a screenshot that was flagged

99
00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,760
Speaker 2: by our producer. Following the news, the actual chief of

100
00:04:55,760 --> 00:05:00,200
Speaker 2: staff to President Selenski actually posted three fire emojis on

101
00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,400
Speaker 2: his telegram channel without any commentary, but then deleted the

102
00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,240
Speaker 2: post shortly afterwards.

103
00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,000
Speaker 1: The post is almost more of a deleting the post is.

104
00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,159
Speaker 3: A little bit of a tell, I would say.

105
00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,960
Speaker 2: And the other reason that I think it's so important

106
00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,520
Speaker 2: to think about all of this is that if you

107
00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,479
Speaker 2: read the detailed response, not just by Zelenski, but by

108
00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,000
Speaker 2: the Chief form Policy Advisor to Ukraine, who actually put

109
00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:28,120
Speaker 2: out a tweet in English, he said something which calls

110
00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,919
Speaker 2: calls into question the entirety of the statement. He said, Crystal,

111
00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:38,000
Speaker 2: we have never used drones or perpetrated any attack on

112
00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,520
Speaker 2: Russian soil. That's why even pro Russian or pro Ukrainian

113
00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,520
Speaker 2: accounts who I follow, people like Michael Weiss and others,

114
00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:48,520
Speaker 2: are saying this is ridiculous.

115
00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,160
Speaker 3: They're like, the idea that the Ukrainian.

116
00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:55,360
Speaker 2: Intelligence services have not carried out both assassination campaigns and

117
00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:59,440
Speaker 2: even air like attacks on Russian soil is ludicrous.

118
00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:00,520
Speaker 3: You know Whychris.

119
00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,160
Speaker 2: We even know from the leaked set of Pentagon documents

120
00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,480
Speaker 2: that they not only have done so, but want to

121
00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,560
Speaker 2: do so with long range weapons. So there's a lot

122
00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,960
Speaker 2: if you parse the language. You know, Zelenski funnily enough

123
00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:14,039
Speaker 2: is saying, oh, well, we don't.

124
00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,080
Speaker 3: Have the weapons. First of all, you have the weapons. Second,

125
00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,120
Speaker 3: you actually want more so you can do even more

126
00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:18,440
Speaker 3: of this.

127
00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,479
Speaker 2: And third, the idea that the Ukrainian intelligence services have

128
00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,839
Speaker 2: not carried out multiple attacks on Russian soil throughout the

129
00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,560
Speaker 2: course of this war is just a lie. Absolutely on

130
00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,040
Speaker 2: its face, even the most pro Ukrainian accounts will tell

131
00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:32,560
Speaker 2: you that. Now does any of this mean that they

132
00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:36,400
Speaker 2: are directly responsible? Who knows a genuine who knows moment?

133
00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,760
Speaker 2: Is it technically possible the Russians could have carried out

134
00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:40,680
Speaker 2: a false flag?

135
00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,160
Speaker 3: Maybe? I mean, let's think about it a little bit.

136
00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:45,720
Speaker 3: But first though, I.

137
00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,160
Speaker 2: Think we should note that the people who are the

138
00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,400
Speaker 2: most pro Ukraine here in Washington all want to call

139
00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:53,800
Speaker 2: it a first flag, because I think by saying that,

140
00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,720
Speaker 2: they are explicitly acknowledging this is a dangerous escalation. One

141
00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,640
Speaker 2: of those is the former CIA director Leon Peta, Here's

142
00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:02,280
Speaker 2: what he had to say, and.

143
00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,120
Speaker 3: Former CA Director of President under President Obama Lee Panetta.

144
00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,160
Speaker 3: Secretary of Panetta sources.

145
00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,800
Speaker 5: TELCNN that US officials had no warning that an attack

146
00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:12,280
Speaker 5: like this was coming, and that.

147
00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,720
Speaker 3: The Ukrainians assure them privately they had nothing to do

148
00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:15,120
Speaker 3: with it.

149
00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:23,640
Speaker 6: What's your take, Jake, This really does smell like a

150
00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:27,720
Speaker 6: false flag operation on the part of the Russians, a diversion,

151
00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:28,640
Speaker 6: if you will.

152
00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,680
Speaker 3: So, false flag. They said, it's a diversion.

153
00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,640
Speaker 2: I mean, again, look, anything is possible, but I think

154
00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:38,560
Speaker 2: we should consider a couple of things I'm curious what

155
00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:39,120
Speaker 2: you think, Crystal.

156
00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:39,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

157
00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,440
Speaker 2: Number one is this, It's humiliating to have a drone.

158
00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,480
Speaker 2: It's like the Chinese balloon thing. But for the Russians,

159
00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:48,960
Speaker 2: you have a nation that you are at war with

160
00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,040
Speaker 2: that is able to penetrate your most innermost defenses and

161
00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,920
Speaker 2: strike at the seat of power in Mosk.

162
00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:56,000
Speaker 3: I mean that's humiliate.

163
00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,600
Speaker 2: That would be like if somebody, you know, blew up

164
00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,520
Speaker 2: the statue on top of the Capitol building. That's insane, right,

165
00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,840
Speaker 2: think about the what that response would look like and

166
00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,280
Speaker 2: the questions it would call to the actual like command

167
00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:10,720
Speaker 2: and control of the Russian regime.

168
00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:11,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

169
00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,960
Speaker 2: Second, you know, okay, everyone's saying it's a false flag

170
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,400
Speaker 2: and all that, but we also, again, as I've laid out,

171
00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,120
Speaker 2: Ukrainian intelligence services have long both wanted the weapons to

172
00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,040
Speaker 2: carry out attacks like this, have you know, justified this

173
00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,160
Speaker 2: and also are you know, we're obviously gleeful as we

174
00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,800
Speaker 2: initially showed you in that So I just think much

175
00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,959
Speaker 2: of the false flag discourse is centered around the fact

176
00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,400
Speaker 2: that the true here's the basic truth. Whatever you think

177
00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,800
Speaker 2: this is definitely ratcheting things up a notch well.

178
00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,239
Speaker 1: And whatever you think, it's definitely in the realm of possibility.

179
00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,960
Speaker 1: I mean, even the biggest Ukraine stands who want to

180
00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,439
Speaker 1: believe Panetta that, oh, that has all the hallmarks of

181
00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,800
Speaker 1: Russian disinformation and a false flag in the infamous words

182
00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,480
Speaker 1: where it used to dismiss the Hunter Biden laptop story.

183
00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:56,320
Speaker 1: Even if you want to believe that, you have to

184
00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,000
Speaker 1: acknowledge the Ukrainians have done some crazy crap already, and

185
00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,959
Speaker 1: they've done it on Russians, and you also have to acknowledge, Yeah,

186
00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,199
Speaker 1: the Russians are liars. So are the Ukrainians. I mean,

187
00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,640
Speaker 1: we know this and look he to battle heat a war.

188
00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,080
Speaker 1: I get it. Okay, maybe you can make some excuses

189
00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,079
Speaker 1: for them, but you cannot rely on the word of Zelenski,

190
00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,720
Speaker 1: whether or not anyone in the Ukrainian State, Ukrainian Rotary

191
00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,200
Speaker 1: Club or whatever had to do with this attack. I

192
00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,559
Speaker 1: think your point about you know, it's hard to imagine

193
00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,439
Speaker 1: that this would be the type of false flag that

194
00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,800
Speaker 1: they would want to stage, given that also throughout this

195
00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:33,280
Speaker 1: war it's really been putin has really attempted to sort

196
00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,440
Speaker 1: of protect the population from the fallout of the war

197
00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,440
Speaker 1: and not make it feel like this is on their soil.

198
00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,240
Speaker 1: And this is coming for them directly in order to

199
00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,000
Speaker 1: try to maintain support for the war efforts. So you know,

200
00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,320
Speaker 1: it flies in the face of that as well. But

201
00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:49,880
Speaker 1: just think about it. I mean, we had we know

202
00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,400
Speaker 1: two very very likely that Ukrainians were involved in two

203
00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:59,920
Speaker 1: separate assassinations on Russian soil with pro Russian war bloggers. Effectively,

204
00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,360
Speaker 1: we know that they were very likely involved in the

205
00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,720
Speaker 1: Crimean Bridge. We still don't really know exactly what happened

206
00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,520
Speaker 1: with Nordstream. They may have been involved and may have

207
00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:10,840
Speaker 1: been us on our own, etc. But it's not crazy

208
00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:12,480
Speaker 1: to think that they were involved in blowing that up

209
00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,920
Speaker 1: as well. We know from the leaked documents that they

210
00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:19,240
Speaker 1: were very interested in obtaining long range missiles from US

211
00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,440
Speaker 1: so that they could strike further onto Russian soil. So

212
00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,400
Speaker 1: to act like, oh, there's no way this could be them,

213
00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,520
Speaker 1: I think that that is incredibly, incredibly naive. I think

214
00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,559
Speaker 1: it is wilfully blind, and it frankly irritates me that

215
00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,120
Speaker 1: the media is not more clear about these things because

216
00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,480
Speaker 1: you have so much of the population that they just

217
00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:40,680
Speaker 1: see Zelenski as a hero and they just dismiss it

218
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,560
Speaker 1: out of hand. There's no way possible that he could

219
00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,360
Speaker 1: have done this. Think about the incentive that they have

220
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,960
Speaker 1: here too, which is something that we have always flagged

221
00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,800
Speaker 1: as a real danger. It is in the Ukrainian's interest

222
00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,400
Speaker 1: to have an escalation that would draw us directly into

223
00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,040
Speaker 1: the conflict. So when we look at something like this

224
00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:03,560
Speaker 1: and we're like, this is insane. You're trying to potentially

225
00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:08,720
Speaker 1: assassinate the leader of a nuclear arm superpower, Like, what

226
00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,920
Speaker 1: in the world are you up to? But their calculus

227
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,480
Speaker 1: is very different. Their interests are not, in this way

228
00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,520
Speaker 1: actually aligned with us. They would like to see some

229
00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,679
Speaker 1: sort of escalation that forces our hand and draws us

230
00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,720
Speaker 1: directly into this war because frankly, that is the only

231
00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,480
Speaker 1: way that they would outright win. So that has always

232
00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,040
Speaker 1: been there. But I just really want to urge people

233
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,920
Speaker 1: to think about how much fire we are playing with here,

234
00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,920
Speaker 1: because even if you submit, there was like a one

235
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,120
Speaker 1: percent chance that this was the Ukrainians. You have to

236
00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,719
Speaker 1: these are our partners and allies. They did not warn us,

237
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:46,840
Speaker 1: probably in advance that they were going to do this.

238
00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,400
Speaker 1: We have no control over them, and we also know

239
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,520
Speaker 1: from the late documents them from a lot of other reporting,

240
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,640
Speaker 1: we have less insight in some ways into what the

241
00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,280
Speaker 1: Ukrainians are up to. Because we don't have these deep

242
00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,520
Speaker 1: intelligence networks that we've been working on for decades with

243
00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:01,640
Speaker 1: regard to your Ukrainians, and they don't let us in

244
00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,240
Speaker 1: on what they're up to. We have less insight into

245
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:08,240
Speaker 1: their operations in some ways than the Russians. So we

246
00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,040
Speaker 1: are playing with fire. This is an insane situation, and

247
00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,400
Speaker 1: it just reminds me again, whatever we can do to

248
00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:19,400
Speaker 1: get this conflict to an end is incredibly critical.

249
00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:21,640
Speaker 3: This is the issue. You know, the NAFO people who

250
00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:22,680
Speaker 3: are out there are all.

251
00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,840
Speaker 2: Like, well, the Moscow has tried to assassinate Zelensky, who's

252
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,800
Speaker 2: defending Moscow? Okay, right, if the Ukraine listen, here's my

253
00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,560
Speaker 2: general take on the matter. People dismiss any concern of

254
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:37,440
Speaker 2: ours as some sort of condemnation on Ukraine. Now here's

255
00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,440
Speaker 2: the deal. If Ukraine wants to put itself in a

256
00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,000
Speaker 2: position to risk its annihilation.

257
00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:44,200
Speaker 3: They are free to do that.

258
00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:48,360
Speaker 2: But then it should said risk happen, They should bear

259
00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,040
Speaker 2: one hundred percent of the risk and of the possibility

260
00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:56,160
Speaker 2: without any of the escalation coming back on us. And

261
00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,960
Speaker 2: that's part of why I'm so annoyed by the discourse

262
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,880
Speaker 2: around this, he's saying that Ukraine is quote unquote not

263
00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,439
Speaker 2: justified or doesn't have the right to retaliate. You can

264
00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:06,640
Speaker 2: do whatever you want, but whatever you want, you should

265
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,960
Speaker 2: keep us out of it. And that's the problem, which

266
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,719
Speaker 2: is that they don't seem to understand we are tied.

267
00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:12,040
Speaker 3: At the hip.

268
00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,800
Speaker 2: Not my choice, I can tell you that, but by

269
00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,439
Speaker 2: the choice though of the President of the United States,

270
00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,280
Speaker 2: of NATO and the entire Western Alliance seems to have

271
00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,760
Speaker 2: lost their minds, and they seem to think that, you know,

272
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,680
Speaker 2: we are going to rise and fall with whatever.

273
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:26,200
Speaker 3: Happens to Ukraine.

274
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,400
Speaker 2: And if that's the case, then then of course, as

275
00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,600
Speaker 2: you said, Ukraine is of their fate, and what happens

276
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:33,760
Speaker 2: to them is now directly tied to us, and so

277
00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:35,880
Speaker 2: we should have some say in the matter.

278
00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,240
Speaker 1: When you're dealing with nuke's, what's going on here is

279
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,520
Speaker 1: tied to everyone on the planet, right, I mean, even

280
00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,240
Speaker 1: if we weren't so directly involved and basically a proxy

281
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,840
Speaker 1: you know, fighters alongside of the Ukrainians, with by the way,

282
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,440
Speaker 1: some limited number of boots on the ground and providing

283
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,520
Speaker 1: a lot of intelligence to help them with their targeting

284
00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,520
Speaker 1: and all of those, and of course the money and

285
00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:58,760
Speaker 1: the weapons and all that we have sent over there.

286
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,800
Speaker 1: Even if that wasn't the case, every single person on

287
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:03,640
Speaker 1: the planet should be concerned about what's going on here.

288
00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:03,959
Speaker 3: Sure.

289
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,360
Speaker 2: And then also this is another important thing. And by

290
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,160
Speaker 2: the way, this is coming from Bellincat, which is definitely

291
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,960
Speaker 2: one of the more of a pro Ukrainian group. I

292
00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:13,679
Speaker 2: think it'd be fair to say, put us up there

293
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,640
Speaker 2: on the screen. They are acknowledging that there are apparent

294
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:21,480
Speaker 2: Russian Ukrainian attacks within Russia and Russian controlled territory over

295
00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:23,960
Speaker 2: the last four days, all using drones. There was a

296
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,120
Speaker 2: drone attack on a huge fuel storage facility in Crimea.

297
00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,560
Speaker 2: There was a drone attack on an oil depot near.

298
00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:30,440
Speaker 3: The Kirch Bridge.

299
00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,720
Speaker 2: There was a two major train derailments in a region

300
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,600
Speaker 2: inside of this territory. And there also now is the

301
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,920
Speaker 2: drone attack at the Kremlin. Lots of people kept saying, oh, well,

302
00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,360
Speaker 2: this is an isolated incident. No, it was part of

303
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:46,760
Speaker 2: a concerted Ukrainian drone campaign against targets inside of Russia.

304
00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:48,800
Speaker 2: Now once again they can do what they would like,

305
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:50,920
Speaker 2: but if they get retaliated against and they get a

306
00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,480
Speaker 2: city wiped out or something like that. Well, then that's

307
00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,920
Speaker 2: on them, because that's what war looks like. And then

308
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,640
Speaker 2: the idea that we should get drawn into it even more,

309
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,280
Speaker 2: which is what a lot of people hear and Washington want,

310
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,640
Speaker 2: I think is very problematic. I just you know, for me,

311
00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:08,080
Speaker 2: the fact that so many people want to call it

312
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,520
Speaker 2: a false flag is the tell in and of itself,

313
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,320
Speaker 2: because they have to because by doing that they can

314
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,960
Speaker 2: push responsibility off the Ukrainians because if we all acknowledge

315
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,680
Speaker 2: it is look, let's just say it's probably almost certainly

316
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,160
Speaker 2: it was the Ukrainian regime, Well, then they have to

317
00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,520
Speaker 2: acknowledge them that they've done something incredibly risky.

318
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,280
Speaker 1: I also want you to think about, you know, with

319
00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,880
Speaker 1: Panetta there on with Jake Tapper, Now, if you ever

320
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,080
Speaker 1: had anyone with a critical view as we do, or

321
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,840
Speaker 1: a skeptical view as we do, go on and say,

322
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,080
Speaker 1: you know, this really looks like a Ukrainian attack. Oh,

323
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,400
Speaker 1: they be up at arms. There's no way you could

324
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:44,760
Speaker 1: just say that without tap or jumping in impress, which

325
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:46,840
Speaker 1: you know what he should, right, but you got to

326
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,000
Speaker 1: do it on the other side too, And Panetta is

327
00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,080
Speaker 1: just allowed to float this with no backing, no evidence,

328
00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,400
Speaker 1: no nothing, just because he wants it to be true,

329
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:59,480
Speaker 1: and no pushback. For the media, this becomes the accepted narrative. Also,

330
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,880
Speaker 1: to linger on that tweet that we put up earlier

331
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:07,760
Speaker 1: showing the various drone attacks in and around Russia from Ukrainians,

332
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,840
Speaker 1: that also really undermines Zelensky's claim that we don't even

333
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:12,320
Speaker 1: have the weapons.

334
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:13,200
Speaker 3: Toe That's what I'm saying.

335
00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,960
Speaker 1: So, if your statement of denial really doesn't hold up

336
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,240
Speaker 1: to scrutiny, that should cause people to have a lot

337
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,920
Speaker 1: of question marks about what else you're presenting here and

338
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,880
Speaker 1: whether it is in fact accurate or not. Again, let

339
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,080
Speaker 1: me just say, if you are more inclined than we

340
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,720
Speaker 1: are to believe Zelensky's denials and believe this was a

341
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,880
Speaker 1: potential false flag, please acknowledge there is at least a

342
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,360
Speaker 1: chance that this was the Ukrainians, and if there's even

343
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,240
Speaker 1: a chance that they are freelancing and engaging this type

344
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:43,680
Speaker 1: of incredibly reckless actions, that should change your whole way

345
00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:44,720
Speaker 1: that you're thinking about this war.

346
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:45,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

347
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,200
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Let's go to the next part here about Yeah,

348
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,520
Speaker 2: how are the Russians taking this? Turns out not? Well,

349
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,600
Speaker 2: let's go and put this up there on the screen.

350
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:57,280
Speaker 2: Dmitriy Medvedev, the former president of Russia, says, after the

351
00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:59,480
Speaker 2: attack on the Kremlin, there is a need to now

352
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,840
Speaker 2: quote physically eliminate Zelensky. He says, after today's terrorist attack,

353
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,840
Speaker 2: there are no options left other than the physical elimination

354
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,280
Speaker 2: of Zelensky and his clique. He is not even needed

355
00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,840
Speaker 2: to sign the Act of Unconditional Capitulation. Hitler, as you know,

356
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:14,800
Speaker 2: did not sign it either. There will always be some

357
00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,760
Speaker 2: kind of changer like this, Hits President. Admiral Donuts, wrote

358
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:20,639
Speaker 2: Medvedev in his telegram channel.

359
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,040
Speaker 3: And by the way, Medvedev, remember.

360
00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:27,040
Speaker 2: Was supposed to be the reasonable one whenever Putin was out. Now, look,

361
00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:29,400
Speaker 2: he's basically lost it in terms of his rhetoric now

362
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,960
Speaker 2: for quite some time. But really his designs and his

363
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,560
Speaker 2: rhetoric and all that are aimed not just at Zelenski,

364
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,560
Speaker 2: they're really aimed at us. Just to show you what

365
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,000
Speaker 2: the temperature is inside of the Moscow elite, let's go

366
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,399
Speaker 2: to the next one. Here up on the screen, the

367
00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,520
Speaker 2: speaker of the Duma, you know, basically the Russian Congress,

368
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,600
Speaker 2: says that Russia should use quote weapons to destroy the

369
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:55,000
Speaker 2: KEIV regime. As Samuel Romani here says, aside from nuke's

370
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,000
Speaker 2: what are said weapons exactly right? Which is you know

371
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,640
Speaker 2: what exactly is on the table? Well, now, listen, nuclear

372
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,880
Speaker 2: saber rattling has long been part of the Russian rhetorical campaign.

373
00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:08,919
Speaker 2: Obviously they can credibly back it up because they have

374
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,639
Speaker 2: more nukes than everybody else on the planet. But you

375
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,600
Speaker 2: should also pair it with some recent news which was

376
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,639
Speaker 2: passed off as some sort of secondary thing, but is

377
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:18,520
Speaker 2: pretty alarming.

378
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,040
Speaker 3: Let's put this up there on the screen.

379
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:25,359
Speaker 2: The Federal National National Security and Nuclear National Security Administration

380
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,440
Speaker 2: here in the US is now setting up an advanced

381
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:35,240
Speaker 2: network across Ukraine with radiation sensors to detect a nuclear

382
00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:40,040
Speaker 2: blast that could verify an attacker's identity. Again, this is

383
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,199
Speaker 2: US tax pay dollars in a US agency that is

384
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,680
Speaker 2: now wiring up Ukraine with the same sensors and unit

385
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:52,320
Speaker 2: of atomic experts that are monitoring all of this equipment,

386
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,640
Speaker 2: with the same radiation sensors that we have here at home.

387
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:57,320
Speaker 3: Now, we don't know all.

388
00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:01,480
Speaker 2: Their allies that have said sensors and have the same network,

389
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:05,000
Speaker 2: but I do think at the very least it seems

390
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:08,520
Speaker 2: important to say, you don't do this unless you think

391
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,840
Speaker 2: that the chance is greater than one percent. And as

392
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,800
Speaker 2: all policy makers have always made around nuclear policy, the

393
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 2: policy of one percent, because the risk is so catastrophic

394
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,200
Speaker 2: that you have to take it and treat it almost

395
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,720
Speaker 2: as if it's on the table as fifty to fifty.

396
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that's right. And this is in

397
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:31,399
Speaker 1: direct contrast. We've been receiving assurances in the media and

398
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,040
Speaker 1: from administration officials for a while now of like, oh,

399
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:35,760
Speaker 1: we don't think that's going to happen. We don't think

400
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,119
Speaker 1: there's going to be any nuclear deployment. There was some

401
00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,000
Speaker 1: increased concern a while ago, but we really don't think

402
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,720
Speaker 1: Putin's going to go in that direction. I think this

403
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,840
Speaker 1: action speaks louder than those words, is what I would say. Clearly,

404
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,119
Speaker 1: they do think that there is some level of significant

405
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,480
Speaker 1: risk that Putin does introduce nukes into this conflict. I

406
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,919
Speaker 1: don't have to tell you how terrifying that potential scenario is.

407
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,320
Speaker 1: They also talk in this article about how they feel

408
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:08,280
Speaker 1: fear a potential reactor threat scenario. They have a nuclear

409
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,440
Speaker 1: power expert who says that Russia, if it suffered a

410
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,679
Speaker 1: humiliating defeat and withdrew from Ukraine might retaliate by firing

411
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,160
Speaker 1: on a reactor it's spent fuel storage areas in order

412
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,600
Speaker 1: to release high radioactivity into the environment. That's one of

413
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:23,479
Speaker 1: the biggest dangers. This doctor Lyman his name said, if

414
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,520
Speaker 1: they wanted to render as much of the countryside as

415
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:29,480
Speaker 1: they could uninhabitable, those reactors might become targets. So that's

416
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:34,240
Speaker 1: another potential threat that they're monitoring here as well. It's

417
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 1: also interesting the way they talked about this agency outfit

418
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,680
Speaker 1: group within the Energy Department that they describe as a

419
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:46,720
Speaker 1: shadowy unit of atomic experts that apparently they didn't even

420
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 1: want to acknowledge the existence of until very recently. So anyway,

421
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:50,960
Speaker 1: there's that too.

422
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, great, And by the way, what's opening on top

423
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,679
Speaker 2: of all of that after the attack put this up

424
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,640
Speaker 2: there on the screen. The US is sending a Ukraine

425
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 2: three hundred million dollars more in additional military aid, including

426
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 2: an enormous amount of artillery rounds, howitzers, air to ground

427
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 2: rockets ammunition as the launch of the Spring offensive against

428
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,920
Speaker 2: the Russian forces approaches. The new package also includes hydro

429
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 2: seventy rockets unguided rockets that are fired from an aircraft.

430
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 2: It includes an undisclosed number of rockets for high mars, mortars,

431
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:27,360
Speaker 2: howitz surrounds, missiles, anti tank rifles. The weapons all will

432
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,480
Speaker 2: be pulled from existing Pentagon stocks so that it can

433
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 2: go quickly to the front line in case you're wondering

434
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 2: where it's all coming from, which is our own stocks

435
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,719
Speaker 2: of military resources, of which we are going to probably

436
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,359
Speaker 2: take a decade to have to replace. I encourage everybody

437
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 2: to go read. You know, might probably do a monologue

438
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 2: on this soon. The level of how much this is exposed,

439
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:50,199
Speaker 2: how hollow and useless are defense industrial complex is. For

440
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 2: all of the talk of the military industrial complex, I

441
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 2: always try and emphasize this point.

442
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:54,679
Speaker 3: They're not even good at what they do.

443
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 2: We have like one plant that produces weapons waste, and

444
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 2: then we just had a.

445
00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 1: Fighting amount of money.

446
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you're like, what are we paying for?

447
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 2: You know, we pay the size of the GDP of

448
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 2: small African nations on a yearly basis, and we don't

449
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,200
Speaker 2: even have enough weapons to send to a measly country

450
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 2: like Ukraine, let alone, you know, defend the United States

451
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 2: of America. That's a whole other subject for another time.

452
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:15,880
Speaker 2: The point is, though, is that it is a zero

453
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,639
Speaker 2: sum game and we are not. Basically, we don't have

454
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 2: a resources that we necessarily could need. And I think

455
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 2: also at this point we should all acknowledge the coming

456
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,400
Speaker 2: Ukrainian Spring offensive. It's happening at some point. We don't

457
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:31,400
Speaker 2: know when it could happen.

458
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 3: Literally today, it could have already begun, you know, with

459
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 3: the drone campaign.

460
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 2: It could happen in a week. America doesn't even know.

461
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,360
Speaker 2: Our own intelligence services don't know this. Zelenski doesn't want

462
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 2: to tell us apparently, and I guess in some way

463
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 2: you can sympathize he's like, well, you know, we didn't

464
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 2: even know about these League documents, Like why should we

465
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 2: tell you anything?

466
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 1: Is it is gonna end up in the press now,

467
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 1: I don't blame him us, yeah, right right. I mean,

468
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,439
Speaker 1: we have a lot of strategic leverage here that we

469
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 1: could be using if it was important to us to

470
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 1: know what the hell they were up to. But you know,

471
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 1: apparently it's not that important to our our leaders and

472
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 1: the peace you're pointing out saga with regards to the

473
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 1: military industrial complex. This is why actually some of the

474
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,639
Speaker 1: voices of restraint have come from the Pentagon. I mean,

475
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 1: think about General Bully, because they're very aware of what

476
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 1: this does to our own readiness and preparedness. The last

477
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 1: thing I want to say with regard to the Russian

478
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 1: response here is listen, if Putin was killed, died, sassinated, whatever,

479
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 1: It's not like we would be shedding tears here. However,

480
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 1: I think we have a realistic, realistic understanding, and no

481
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 1: one needs to confuse themselves about the fact that it's

482
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,199
Speaker 1: not going to be doves that come to power in

483
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: the wake of that death. The ascendant voices within Russia

484
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 1: are harder line, if anything, then Putin. They are more

485
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: pro war, they are more aggressive, more brutal. And I

486
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 1: know you may think that that's not possible, but believe me,

487
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: it is. So don't think that if Putin was gone

488
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 1: or taken out, that this would be an improvement in

489
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 1: the city situation. It could actually make things much worse.

490
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 1: And you know, as we've said before, the biggest risk

491
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: in terms of nuclear usage deployment is if Russia is

492
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 1: truly desperate, truly backed into a corner. And I think

493
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 1: that this incident, whether you think it's you know, most

494
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 1: likely that it was the Ukrainians or only possible that

495
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 1: it was the Ukrainians. It should really bring home to

496
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 1: you the grave risks that are a tendant to continuing

497
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 1: this conflict and allowing it to go on as we have.

498
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we just read that thing about Medvedev,

499
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 2: like that's the moderate guy you know inside of Russia

500
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 2: or the do must be these are established politicians who

501
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,199
Speaker 2: are the real alternatives to putin people. Always I've heard,

502
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 2: always heard that with the Chinese Communist Party too. They're like,

503
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 2: who knows what the hell would come next? You have

504
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 2: no idea like that level of authoritarianism could could actually,

505
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 2: you know, look like child's play compared to what some

506
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,679
Speaker 2: facets within the party or the military or whatever do desire.

507
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 2: Not everybody's like us, you know, and our system. That's

508
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 2: a lesson that I think a lot of people should remember.

509
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 2: Let's go ahead to the next one with the economy.

510
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we've got kind of a lightning round of

511
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,439
Speaker 1: big economic news that is all coming together this week

512
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: that should similarly make you pretty nervous. So we told

513
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 1: you earlier this week on Monday, we have the second

514
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: largest bank failure in history, and now it looks like

515
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 1: We've got yet another bank, this would be the fourth

516
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: one in just a few months that is teetering on

517
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: the brink. Let's put this up on the screen from CNBC.

518
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: We're talking about pac West here. This is a report

519
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: from yesterday. Their shares fell more than fifty percent after

520
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 1: hours on a report that the bank is considering quote

521
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: strategic options. That means again it is teetering on the brink.

522
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: I'll read you a little bit of this report. The

523
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 1: regional bank is assubsing options, including a possible sale, bringing

524
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 1: in advisors to evaluate longer term plans for the business,

525
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 1: according to one person familiar with the matter. They later

526
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: confirmed they were still in discussions with momultiple potential investors

527
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: and partners of the company will continue to evaluate all

528
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: options to maximize shareholder value and the all regional bank

529
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 1: shares have basically been hit hard recently after the collapse

530
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 1: of Silicon Valley Bank, and PacWest has not been immune

531
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 1: to that. Just to give you a sense of the

532
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: size of this, this is an LA based bank that

533
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 1: has a roughly seven hundred and fifty million dollar market cap,

534
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 1: so it's no small potatoes and it's down by seventy

535
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: two percent this year through Wednesday, so has just been battered. Now.

536
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 1: I will tell you this morning, what they're saying, the

537
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: folks at pack West is that core deposits have actually

538
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: increased since March. According to them, in the wake of

539
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,880
Speaker 1: the Silicon Valley bank collapse, because that's been a major

540
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: issue for some of these regional banks is depositors have

541
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 1: fled to the big boys like JP Morgan Chase, But

542
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 1: they say that hasn't been the case for them. They

543
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: did confirm their inn talks with several potential investors seeking

544
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: a call markets after a sixty percent stock route. That

545
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: made it the new focal point of concern over the

546
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: health of US regional lenders. So earlier in the week,

547
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: the message that was coming out from IRO was like this,

548
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: these are just one off situations. There's no contagion. I

549
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 1: think this shows you that there is a lot more

550
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: fragility throughout the sector. Then maybe they want to admit.

551
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, they are really not telling us, you know, the

552
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 2: full thing of what's going on. I actually read with

553
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 2: interest tweet by Bill Ackman, the billionaire investor. I mean, look,

554
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 2: he's talking about the financial system, so maybe's talking about

555
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 2: something that he was talking about and I actually.

556
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 3: Thought it was worth reading.

557
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 2: He says that the regional banking system is at risk

558
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 2: SVB depositors. Bad weekend woke up uninsured depositors everywhere. The

559
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 2: rapid rising rates impaired assets and drained deposits, zeroing out

560
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 2: shareholders and bondholders massively increases bank's cost of capital. The

561
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 2: FDIC's failure to update and expand insurance regime is hammering

562
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 2: more nails in the coffin. First Republic Bank would not

563
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 2: have failed if the FDIC had temporary guaranteed deposits with

564
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 2: a new guarantee regime was created. Instead, we are watching

565
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 2: Domino's fall as great systemic and economic costs. Banking is

566
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 2: all a confidence game. At this rate, no regional bank

567
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 2: can survive bad news or bad data, as a stock

568
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:14,199
Speaker 2: price plunge will inevitably follow. Ensured and unsure deposits are

569
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 2: withdrawn and quote pursuing strategic alternatives just means an FDI

570
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 2: shutdown over the coming weekend. There is no incentive to

571
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 2: bid until Sunday.

572
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 3: After the failure. So look he's talking there.

573
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 2: You know he wants a better insurance regime, which I

574
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 2: do think probably should be on the table just one

575
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 2: that doesn't, you know, come at the cost of increasing

576
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 2: our fees. But I thought it was actually well said

577
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 2: in terms of how the game is structured around how

578
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 2: these weaker regional banks you're dead in the water now

579
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 2: at this point.

580
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 3: You know, all it really.

581
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 2: Takes is because confidence is so shaken at this point

582
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 2: for these regionals. It only takes one piece of bad

583
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 2: news that you might have been able to weather in

584
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 2: the past, and you can just collapse.

585
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, right, that's right. And the reason why

586
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: this bank in particular is vulnerable is because of where

587
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: it's located and what its client basis, so similar depositor

588
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: base as we saw with First Republic, as we saw

589
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: with Silicon Valley Bank, And so that's why investors and

590
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: others are looking at this one going, h are you

591
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: all going to be okay? This does not look particularly good.

592
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: So I think the FDIC point is really important. We

593
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: covered earlier in the week how they just put out

594
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: a report of their recommendations of how to change the

595
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: deposit insurance system. I think that's important. I think it's

596
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: important we deal with that quickly so that at the

597
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: very least there is some certainty because That's one of

598
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: the things that was so unnerving after the response to

599
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley Bank is we were, you know, reporters were

600
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,239
Speaker 1: asking questions of Janet Yellen and others like, okay, so

601
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: does this mean that effectively all deposits are insured in

602
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: the entire system, and like what does that mean in

603
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: terms of who's backstopping that? And how's that going to

604
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: all work out? And they really hedged, you know, she

605
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: gave a different answer than Jerome Pale gave. It seemed

606
00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: like they were not on the same page. What's the web?

607
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: So if anything, whatever the ultimate regime is going to be,

608
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: they need to figure it out. They need to make

609
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: it really clear. And too, by the way, they got

610
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: to stick to it as well. You can't have it

611
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: then be Lucy goosey and all right, we're going to

612
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: take it on a case by case basis, because then

613
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: you end up with, you know, you end up with

614
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: a lot of moral hazard. You end up with some

615
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: people being treated, usually you know, wealthy depositors being treated

616
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: in a way that is kind of unfair. So anyway,

617
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: that's incredibly important. The other piece of this that Acman

618
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: is very obvious to a lot of folks. Is part

619
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: of what has pushed these banks off the cliff has

620
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: been the FEDS program of aggressive interest rate hikes. And

621
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: let's put this next piece up on the screen. They

622
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: have decided they are going to continue in that direction.

623
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: They just increased rates another quarter point. But they did

624
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: signal a potential end to the hikes. I think it

625
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: is a major question mark where things go from here,

626
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: whether they continue the interest rate hikes or whether they

627
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: press pause. Powell made it very clear they have no

628
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: intention of cutting rates at this point. This was a

629
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: widely expected decision. Nevertheless, this pushes the FED funds rate

630
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: to the highest level since August of two thousand and seven.

631
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: So it gives you a sense of how extraordinary this

632
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: path of interest rate hikes has been. Just to give

633
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: you a little bit of the Fed speak here of

634
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: how they altered this particular statement versus the last one

635
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: that is making people feel like, okay, this might be

636
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: the end of the rate hikes at least for a while.

637
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: They omitted a sentence that was present in their March

638
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: comments saying that quote, the Committee anticipates that some additional

639
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: policy firming may be appropriate for the Fed to achieve

640
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: its two percent inflation goal, So they took that line out.

641
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: People took that as all of these statements, just so

642
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: you know, are really carefully worded and parsed, etc. So

643
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: they were taking that removal of that statement as significant

644
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: in an indicator that perhaps this might be the last

645
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: rate hike. This decision to hike rates by a quarter

646
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: point was unanimous, which is also really noteworthy. The post

647
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: meaning statement also noted that tighter credit conditions for households

648
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: and businesses are likely to weigh on economic activity, hiring,

649
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: and inflation. Now, they did have something similar to that

650
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: language in the March statement as well, but basically you

651
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: could look at this as them saying, you know, we

652
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: don't potentially we don't need to hike rates anymore because

653
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: we already have this gigantic weight on the economy that

654
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: is probably going to pull inflation down. And you know,

655
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: they have been warning as well, even the fed's own

656
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: economists have been warning that we are likely to see

657
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: some sort of a recession due to these rate hikes

658
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: and the banking issues that have resulted.

659
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 3: It's really important.

660
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 2: Let's go and put this next one up there on

661
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 2: the screen too, just to hammer home, like why it

662
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 2: all matters for you, which is this massively increases all

663
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 2: of the interest rates on credit cards. Currently, the credit

664
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 2: card interest rate average is twenty percent as of April

665
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 2: twenty six. That is up from sixteen percent just March

666
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 2: of last year. Car Loans currently are at one of

667
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 2: the highest levels in modern history. The average interest right

668
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 2: now on a car loan is seven percent in March.

669
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 2: It's at least one point from just six months earlier,

670
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 2: and obviously a lot more than where things were just

671
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago. Student loan rates obviously variable

672
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 2: student loan rates, it's killing a lot of people. Currently,

673
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 2: borrows with a federal undergraduate loan dispersed after July one

674
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 2: are now paying five percent interests.

675
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 3: A year earlier it was at three point seven.

676
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 2: Obviously, every even one point on that is thousands of

677
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 2: dollars on the average balance for people. And then mortgage

678
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 2: is one where it really is just murdering people. So

679
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 2: actually I'm looking at a graph from Politico that just

680
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 2: came out this morning. The average monthly mortgage payment for

681
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 2: a typical US home has grown fifty percent since January

682
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 2: thirty first, twenty twenty two. Currently, as it stands, home

683
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 2: with a five percent down payment at a thirty fixed

684
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 2: year rate is at two two hundred and thirty seven dollars.

685
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 2: In January of twenty twenty two, it was fifteen hundred bucks.

686
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 2: So I mean that's a ton of money. That's what

687
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 2: twenty four thousand dollars extra per year with the vast

688
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 2: majority of it going to interest. So you're not even

689
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 2: touching your principle now personally only with the you know,

690
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 2: five percent down is pretty risky, you know, just in

691
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:16,760
Speaker 2: general terms.

692
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 3: Of putting stuff down.

693
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 2: But we got to be real about where things are

694
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 2: with our current financial picture for most Americans, and you're

695
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 2: just getting the rawest deal because the real estate market

696
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 2: has basically gone flat. It hasn't gone down right like

697
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,720
Speaker 2: some places. It's gone down, but instead of growing thirteen

698
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 2: percent or whatever year over year, it just hasn't grown

699
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 2: by any percent. But that doesn't mean that the price

700
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 2: isn't still crazy out of reach, and you have a

701
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 2: fifty percent increase in your overall mortgage payment, like you're

702
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 2: paying a ton more money for basically the same house. Yeah,

703
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 2: and the crash that everybody wanted it just didn't happen.

704
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 2: And the reason it didn't happen is because basic supply

705
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 2: and demand, we just don't have enough housing for most

706
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 2: For people who want to buy a house air go,

707
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: the price is sky high.

708
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, And one rates are high. That means that there's

709
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: a dis incentive also to build additional housing stock, which

710
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 1: is so I mean, especially in a nation that has

711
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 1: as much debt as we do. The fact credit card

712
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: interest rates are up, new car loan rates are up,

713
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: student loan debt rates are up, I mean, mortgage rates

714
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: obviously up. All of these pieces really adds up to

715
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: an affordability crisis across America. And then you add to

716
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: that the fact that inflation has slowed somewhat but is

717
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: still a significant problem. I also just want to underscore

718
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,240
Speaker 1: something that I talked about my monologue earlier this week,

719
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,760
Speaker 1: which is that the commercial real estate market is something

720
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: we really have to keep our eyes on in terms

721
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: of bank and economic stability because you have a few

722
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 1: things coming together. Number One, people are not working in

723
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: the office the way that they used to, not anywhere

724
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: close and it's not going back. So anybody who is

725
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: in or around a metro area, we certainly see it

726
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: here in DC. These downtowns are totally different, and there's

727
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:00,760
Speaker 1: been a lot of ideas, Okay, we should this office

728
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: space to residential space to deal with the housing issue.

729
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: It's not that simple. It's hard to convert them. There's

730
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: zoning issues, there's all kinds of challenges there, so it's

731
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: not easy to do that. Meanwhile, half of the multi

732
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: trillion dollar market, half of that debt comes due in

733
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,280
Speaker 1: just the next two years. And guess what it's banks

734
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 1: like pac West. I don't know specifically what their balance

735
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: sheet is, so I'm not speaking specifically to them, but

736
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 1: that type of regional, mid sized bank, they're the ones

737
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: that overwhelmingly hold this type of debt. And just as

738
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: your mortgage rate, you know, if you're going to try

739
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: to buy a house, is going up, their rates in

740
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: the commercial real estate market are also have also gone

741
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: up significantly, while the value of those properties is getting

742
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 1: crushed because there just isn't the demand for office space

743
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 1: that there used to be. So I think that is

744
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,439
Speaker 1: a huge cloud looming over the market, something Charlie Mungro

745
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 1: is worrying about that I really want to keep our

746
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: eyes on, and that is obviously tied into what the

747
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: FED decides to do here as well. Now there's another

748
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: piece here that I want to point to. We're supposed

749
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: to get the sort of big jobs report that everybody

750
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: really pays close attention to on Friday, so we'll keep

751
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: our eyes out for that. In the meantime, we got

752
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: the ADP Jobs Report. Let's put this up on the

753
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: screen from CNBC. That report showed that private payroll surge

754
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: by two hundred and ninety sixty thousand in April. Now

755
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 1: that's a lot higher than expected. I do want to

756
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: warn frequently, especially in recent months, for whatever reason, after

757
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: the fact, these estimates have got consistently revised down, so

758
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: it may not be as good as it looks. But

759
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: the reason this is significant is on the one hand,

760
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: you're like, okay, well, that's great. If you know more

761
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 1: people are getting hired and there's this huge job growth,

762
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,280
Speaker 1: that's great for workers. You know, creates a tight labor market,

763
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 1: makes it so that they can be choosier, they can

764
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: demand higher wages, et cetera, et cetera. But the thing

765
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 1: that cuts against that is, as the Fed is in

766
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: this place where they have a giant question mark about

767
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: what they're going to do next, things like this they

768
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 1: look at as like, oh, well, we got to keep

769
00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:59,919
Speaker 1: hiking rates and trying to crush the economy because clearly

770
00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: we haven't crushed workers enough, so it sort of cuts

771
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: in both directions.

772
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, the economy thing is just really difficult because you know,

773
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 2: even if you look at the unemployment rate, the unemployment

774
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,720
Speaker 2: rate is basically fake because we have more job openings

775
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:12,359
Speaker 2: than we have actual people who.

776
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 3: Are in the job market.

777
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 2: And that's part of the problem, which is that we

778
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 2: have what seven to ten million prime age males who

779
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 2: are just like literally not working. That's a societal problem,

780
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 2: that's not an economic problem, and it's.

781
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 3: One of those where you have no idea how to

782
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 3: fix it. The vast majority of these.

783
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 2: People are either playing video games on drugs, who are

784
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 2: basically dropped out of society and are not they don't

785
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,359
Speaker 2: have no interest in participating in civic life or economic life.

786
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 2: And again, like you can't just I don't know, can't

787
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 2: You can't interest rate cut or hike your.

788
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 3: Way out of that.

789
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,879
Speaker 2: That's a way bigger hole of government societal approach. I've

790
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 2: been thinking about it a lot too, just because I

791
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 2: think we keep trying to solve things with these blunt

792
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 2: instruments when actually we have much more downstream factors, which

793
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,760
Speaker 2: you know, material realize in crazy things like housing prices

794
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 2: and all this other stuff.

795
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: Although remember we looked at that report that said most

796
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 1: of the decrease in labor market participation was actually people

797
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: who were going from like working full time plus to

798
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 1: scaling back their hours, So it wasn't as much people

799
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: who were pulling out of the workforce all together. It

800
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 1: was more people who had had a reassessment during COVID

801
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: and were like, you know what, my whole life is

802
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 1: not my job.

803
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 3: So that's definitely part of it.

804
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 2: I'm talking about people who literally don't participate in the

805
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 2: labor force at all.

806
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 3: So this is a reduction in the labor force participation rate.

807
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 2: But I'm saying like even in terms of the people

808
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 2: who count to the rate specifically, they don't because they're

809
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 2: not even seeking work. And yeah, I mean, look, that's

810
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 2: a whole other thing that we've probably done quite a

811
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:41,359
Speaker 2: bit of work on. But I do think it is

812
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 2: something we always have to think about whenever it comes

813
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 2: to the way that we look at these statistics and

814
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 2: the White House is like, oh, we have a three

815
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 2: percent on employment rates, Like it doesn't even touch what

816
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:50,839
Speaker 2: is really going.

817
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: It's always that's always a misliking statistic. There's a lot

818
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 1: more going on there. The last piece about this Job's

819
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 1: report that I think it's important to note is something

820
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 1: else that we've been trying to highlight, which is how

821
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: the economy is doing. It's very uneven. It's very strange

822
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: because obviously, I mean the tech sector, advertising rates, any media,

823
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: these industries are getting crushed. And in fact, if you

824
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 1: look within these this Job's report, you have leisure and

825
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 1: hospitality doing great gain of one hundred and fifty four thousand,

826
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: Education and health services sixty nine thousand ad Construction actually

827
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: fifty three thousand jobs added. Other sectors posting solid increases

828
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 1: were natural resources and mining, trade, transportation utilities. But there

829
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 1: were a couple sectors that are actually losing jobs right now.

830
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: One is the financial sector because of these deposit runs

831
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 1: and bank failures, et cetera. Et cetera, lost twenty eight

832
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 1: thousand jobs for the month. Manufacturing also took a hit

833
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: that's really noteworthy, down thirty eight thousand jobs, and it

834
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: has been in contraction for the past six months. This

835
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: in spite of the fact that the Biden administration has

836
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: made some efforts to try to reshore and certainly, you

837
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 1: know Biden would like to see manufacturing growth, So the

838
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 1: fact that that sector continues to shed jobs, I think

839
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: is worth noting. All right, let's get to this piece

840
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 1: about what the hell is going to happen with the

841
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: debt ceiling. Just to remind you, we are rapidly approaching

842
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 1: the deadline. It's looking like early June when we would

843
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: no longer be able to engage in what they call

844
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: extraordinary measures to keep from defaulting on any of our

845
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: congressionally approved obligations. So Democrats are trying to figure out

846
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,359
Speaker 1: what their plan is. Biden had long been saying we're

847
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 1: not going to negotiate. We want to clean debt, sealing, increase,

848
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: that's that. But after McCarthy was able to get the

849
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 1: Republican House caucus to coal us around a package that

850
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: they were able to narrowly pass through the House, Biden blinked.

851
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,760
Speaker 1: He did decide to meet with congressional leaders, including McCarthy

852
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 1: and McConnell. So here's another piece of what Democrats are

853
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 1: trying to float to deal with this whole situation. Put

854
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,720
Speaker 1: this up on the screen. The headline here is Democrats

855
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 1: unveiled plan to bypass McCarthy ondebt ceiling increase. I think

856
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 1: that's a little bit misleading of a headline, just because

857
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: I don't think this has actually going to work, and

858
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 1: they make it sound like it could. But the idea

859
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: here is a discharge petition through the House that would

860
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 1: force a vote on a clean debt sealing increase. In

861
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: order to successfully use a discharge petition, you have to

862
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: get a majority of members to say yes to bringing

863
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 1: a vote to the floor. That means they would need

864
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 1: a few Republicans to go along with them, and that

865
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: seems at this point very unlikely, they say. Minority Leader

866
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: Hakeem Jeffries and a Dear Colleague letter on Tuesday wrote,

867
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: the Democrats play to file that discharge petition, which, if

868
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 1: signed by two hundred and eighteen House members, would force

869
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 1: a vote on a clean debt ceiling increase. So far, Republicans,

870
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: even they interviewed some of the more sort of like

871
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 1: moderate ones, they're all saying no. It would require signatures

872
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: of five House Republicans to force a vote. Don Bacon,

873
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 1: who's one of those moderates, told Axios Leader Jeffries refuses

874
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: to negotiate that's not how it works in a divided government.

875
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: We have to govern, which means we must find some agreement.

876
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 1: We must negotiate. Another moderate Republican, speaking on the condition

877
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 1: of anonymity, told Axios, I don't support a discharge petition.

878
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: Biden has been doing a horrible job of outreach to moderates.

879
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: They won't get that through, said another House Republican. So

880
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 1: you know, this is an attempt by Democrats to put

881
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 1: some pressure on McCarthy and show that they have some

882
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: sort of a path to a clean debt ceiling increase.

883
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: But it looks to me unlikely to work.

884
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 2: It's unlikely, But it's one of those where it's like

885
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 2: a pull the rip chord situation, like a reserve shoe,

886
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 2: where at the very last moment, if five people were

887
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 2: willing to sign on, they could just sign on to

888
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 2: it, it would discharge.

889
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 3: It come to the floor, they can amendment, they could

890
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 3: pass it.

891
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 2: Then it would be a question then of whether the

892
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 2: Senate would be So I don't think it is in

893
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:46,879
Speaker 2: any way something that's going to happen immediately, but it's

894
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 2: I wouldn't even call it a Plan B, it'd call

895
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 2: it like Plan E. Yeah, you know for the very

896
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 2: very last days of what it.

897
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,800
Speaker 1: Might well, it's like if there was some like major

898
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 1: economic fallout exactly, and the moderates started getting freaked out,

899
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,879
Speaker 1: because these are they do in the Republican Caucus. Now

900
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 1: you know, they have a number of members. We always

901
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: point to the New York Congressional delegation, that one in

902
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: seats where Joe Biden also won. They feel a lot

903
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 1: of pressure in terms of the reelect and they do

904
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,919
Speaker 1: not want to be saddled with responsibility for some sort

905
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 1: of calamitous debt sealing situation. So you could see if

906
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 1: there was some major repercussions or for those that are

907
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: you know, particularly tied in with Wall Street, if there

908
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,439
Speaker 1: starts to be major market repercussions and their Wall Street

909
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: donors start freaking out, then you might see potentially five

910
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 1: Republicans being like, all right, let me get on board

911
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: with this discharge petition. There is another way though, potentially.

912
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: I mean we've talked before about minting the coin and

913
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 1: some of the other workarounds. There's a New York Times

914
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,439
Speaker 1: report that Biden aids are actually debating whether the debt

915
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: ceiling is constitutional. So this is interesting. Yeah, so let

916
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 1: me tell you. This is based on the fourteenth Amendment

917
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 1: clause which states that quote, the validity of the public

918
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts

919
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 1: incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in

920
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. There are

921
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: some legal analysts, not like weird kooks, with some serious

922
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 1: people who look at this and are like, that means

923
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: that basically the debt sealing is not constitutional. And when

924
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: you have these two conflicting instructions coming from Congress, one

925
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 1: of them is, hey, spend this money and it's obligated

926
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 1: and we've created, you know, these debts and obligations, and

927
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: the other one is, don't do what you need to

928
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 1: do to make sure to pay these things that we

929
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 1: told you to pay that you know, the fourteenth Amendment

930
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 1: basically comes in and says you got to honor the

931
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 1: obligations that you've made. So they say, in terms of

932
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 1: how this would go, what the economic fallout would be, quote,

933
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 1: they say, there's a broad consensus on both sides that

934
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 1: the move risks roiling financial markets. It's likely to cause

935
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: a surge in short term borrowing costs because investors would

936
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: demand a premium to buy debt that could be invalidated

937
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: by a court. Moody's analytics anonymist Mark Zandi modeled a situation.

938
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,439
Speaker 1: What he believes would happen is there would be short

939
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: term economic damage as people freaked out and this worked

940
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: its way through the court system, but there would be

941
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: long term gains if the Court's upheld that constitutional interpretation,

942
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 1: because you would then remove the threat of future brinksmanship

943
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 1: over the limit. Quote. The extraordinary uncertainty created by the

944
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 1: constitutional crisis leads to a selloff in financial markets until

945
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court rules, but the economy avoids a recession

946
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,879
Speaker 1: and quickly rebound. So do I think it is likely

947
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: that this direction is going to be pursued where the

948
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: White House just decides the stet ceiling is unconstitutional, we

949
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 1: are not going to abide by it, and you know

950
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: it works its way through the court system. Do I

951
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 1: think they even take that approach? No, I think it's

952
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 1: unlikely because Biden's such an institutionalist. Jeff Stine had done

953
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 1: previous reporting about, you know, discussions behind the scenes, and

954
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: they had sort of dismissed out of hand all of

955
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: the potential workarounds, but at least somebody in the administration

956
00:46:58,280 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: is considering this option.

957
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 2: So if anybody wants to know the history behind it,

958
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 2: it's kind of interesting. The reason why the re radical

959
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 2: reconstructionists in Congress added this to the fourteenth Amendment is

960
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 2: because they were afraid that former Confederate states when they

961
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 2: were readmitted, would gain political power and would repudiate previous

962
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 2: federal debts to guarantee instead Confederate debt incurred during the

963
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 2: war to back there. So basically they would repudiate like

964
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 2: Union debts in order to try and pay off Confederate debts.

965
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 2: So what they did is they added this in saying

966
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 2: that the clause would make sure that they would guarantee

967
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 2: all of the debts that were incurred by the United

968
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 2: States during the Civil War, the specifically the Union army,

969
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,280
Speaker 2: and it would also, in their view, hopefully discourage loans

970
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 2: to future insurrectionists in the event that somebody were to

971
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 2: try and guarantee debt, you know, to some official or

972
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 2: whatever who had not been what was a term, I forget,

973
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 2: reconciliated or whatever at the time, they had to like

974
00:47:59,400 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 2: swear an oath.

975
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:03,359
Speaker 1: That's where the bounties for services in suppressing insurrection? Are

976
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,439
Speaker 1: rebellion right? That language comes from.

977
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 2: Anyway, fun history lesson as it's kind of interesting, you know,

978
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:10,919
Speaker 2: just to think about how all that played out and

979
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 2: how it may now interact with the debt ceiling, and

980
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 2: the debt ceiling is interesting. I remember talking about this

981
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 2: in twenty eleven because on the one hand, you know,

982
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 2: you have the House of Representatives which is supposed to

983
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 2: appropriate on money, which they have done here technically, but

984
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 2: then the debt ceiling itself was not really even in

985
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 2: question up until the twenty tens with the Tea Party era.

986
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,439
Speaker 2: Then all of these legal interpretations. The big problem too,

987
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 2: though with this plan is you know, it does have

988
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 2: to survive the Supreme Court.

989
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:39,839
Speaker 3: Like you know, you can't just do whatever you want.

990
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 2: So even if you agree and you have some legal

991
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 2: authors or theories or whatever like, it would still get challenged,

992
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 2: no question, by the Speaker of the House.

993
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:48,760
Speaker 3: You would just sue the president.

994
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 2: And given that we have a conservative Supreme Court, I

995
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 2: don't really think this one is on the table. Of

996
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 2: all of the unilateral options. I think mint the coin

997
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 2: has the best choice. But as Jeff laid out in

998
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 2: his piece, that one is not again arantee either. Yeah,

999
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 2: in terms of the legalistic framework the Federal Reserve and

1000
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 2: their acceptance of the coin.

1001
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 3: The way the Congress and all that would have it.

1002
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:08,399
Speaker 3: The easiest way is.

1003
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 2: Just freaking past the debt ceiling, but that's probably not

1004
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:11,840
Speaker 2: going to happen.

1005
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I am in favor of them trying and

1006
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: all of these workarounds because I think this having every

1007
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:24,479
Speaker 1: few years like this manufactured, genuine crisis occur. I think

1008
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,479
Speaker 1: this is an insane way to run a country. And yeah,

1009
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 1: if you want to fight over what the spending should be, etc.

1010
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 1: You fight, you fight it when you're appropriating the money,

1011
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 1: not after you've already said we're going to pay X

1012
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:38,839
Speaker 1: and Y and z, and then you're not willing to

1013
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 1: lift the debt ceiling like this weird technicality that we

1014
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: have as like an accident of history that they have

1015
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 1: to go through with, and you're going to use that

1016
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,280
Speaker 1: to hold the entire country hostage. I think it's terrible.

1017
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 1: I think it's insane that we have this situation. So

1018
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 1: I am in favor of, even if there is some

1019
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 1: risk involved, trying to engage in one of these workarounds.

1020
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:01,720
Speaker 1: But I think you're right in terms of the Supreme Court. Unfortunately,

1021
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 1: if the makeup of the Court was different, perhaps there

1022
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: might be more appetite for pursuing one of these workarounds.

1023
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 1: But I also just am fundamentally skeptical that Biden would

1024
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 1: do anything that's outside of the norms and outside of

1025
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 1: the box because he's such institutionalists. So, yes, we will

1026
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: see how this all works out. Surely will So this

1027
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: is an interesting development. Of course, we have long been

1028
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 1: covering the fact that it is insanely corrupt that members

1029
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: of Congress can trade stock with regard to companies that

1030
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: are directly impacted by the actions that they are taking

1031
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 1: as members of Congress, by inside information that they are

1032
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,720
Speaker 1: receiving as members of Congress. There has been a big

1033
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:44,760
Speaker 1: nationwide swell of grassroots bipartisan support to do something about

1034
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 1: this obviously insane situation. The issue had kind of fallen

1035
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: off the table. Every once in a while one of

1036
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 1: the parties would pick it up, and Kevin McCarthy, who's

1037
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 1: running for speaker, was before they know Republicans even got

1038
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:58,760
Speaker 1: the majority, was like, oh yeah, we'll pass the stop

1039
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 1: trading ban when I'm Speak of the House. That we

1040
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 1: didn't hear anything about it. Nancy Pelosi did like a

1041
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 1: fake effort and inserted a poison pill to make sure

1042
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 1: it didn't pass. Well, we have a new effort and

1043
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:12,760
Speaker 1: it's being spearheaded by two very unlikely allies, Matt Gates

1044
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: and alexandri Acossio at Cortes among Also, they have like

1045
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:19,839
Speaker 1: you know, bipartisan like problem solvers, Caucus centrist type people

1046
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 1: who are involved in this effort as well. Gates was

1047
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 1: asked about his decision to work with AOC, someone he

1048
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 1: is very ideologically opposed to, and he had an interesting response.

1049
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 7: Take listen to us, AOC is wrong a lot. She'd

1050
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 7: probably say the same thing about me, But she's not corrupt,

1051
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 7: and I will work with anyone and everyone to ensure

1052
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 7: that Congress is not so compromised. We should disallow congressional

1053
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 7: stock trading for the same reason we don't allow the

1054
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 7: referee to bet on the game.

1055
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 3: And this is not a small amount of money.

1056
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:54,359
Speaker 7: Seven hundred and eighty eight million dollars worth of securities

1057
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 7: traded by members of Congress last year. About one in

1058
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 7: every four members of Congress is doing this. And it's

1059
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 7: not exactly like I'm elected with a bunch of Gordon

1060
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 7: Gecko's and Bobby Axelrod's take. Lois Frankel, who you just mentioned.

1061
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 7: She's been a lawmaker since I was five years old,

1062
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 7: and I'm supposed to believe that all of a sudden

1063
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 7: she's making moves like she's Warren Buffett.

1064
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're about to talk about Lois Frankle specifically

1065
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 1: what he's referring to A good point, you know. To

1066
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 1: be honest with you, I'm not surprised that Gates is

1067
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 1: willing to work with AOC. I'm a little surprised that

1068
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 1: AOC is willing to work with Gates. I mean, I'm

1069
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: glad to see it, but I am a little surprised

1070
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 1: by it.

1071
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 3: I'm shocked that she's willing to do it.

1072
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 2: But the details of the bill itself are actually quite good.

1073
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and put this up there on the

1074
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 2: screen around the actual bill to ban these lawmakers from

1075
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 2: owning stocks. What it would do is called the Bipartisan

1076
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 2: Restoring Faith and Government Act. It's also sponsored by Brian

1077
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 2: Fitzpatrick and Raja christian Worthy, who's another Democrat.

1078
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 3: And where they're coming.

1079
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:54,320
Speaker 2: To is one of the more stringent prohibitions on members

1080
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 2: spouses in any dependence from owning individual stocks making trades,

1081
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 2: requiring all members or covered family members who currently own

1082
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 2: any individual stocks to divest or place them in a

1083
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 2: completely qualified blind trust. Even I personally have issues with

1084
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,319
Speaker 2: the blind trust thing, but it's one of those where,

1085
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 2: you know, willing to compromise, we can get to an

1086
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 2: actual qualified one.

1087
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 3: It would be even as fake as some of those

1088
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 3: can be.

1089
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 1: It's going to be monumentally difficult to get a majority

1090
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 1: of members of Congress to agree to this because they are,

1091
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 1: many of them profiting royally off of the inside information

1092
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:30,919
Speaker 1: that they hold, and they are going to be loath

1093
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: to give up their ability to what was that crunchhaw said,

1094
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 1: better themselves, better themselves.

1095
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 3: Opportunity to better yourself.

1096
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 1: And to go that extra mile and do what I

1097
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: think should be done, which is they should all have

1098
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,360
Speaker 1: to divest they're holding completely in none of this qualified

1099
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:48,440
Speaker 1: blind trust thing. I think we have to live in

1100
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 1: the realm of political reality that that would be impossible

1101
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 1: to accomplish. That's unfortunate, but that is reality. So I

1102
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 1: think accepting some sort of compromise qualified blind trust situation

1103
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 1: here is the best we can possibly hope for. I

1104
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 1: would love to see, you know, once we get more

1105
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 1: details on the bill, i' love for someone who's the

1106
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 1: subject matter expert to look into because not all qualified

1107
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,320
Speaker 1: blind trusts are quick created equal. So what are the

1108
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 1: specifics of those provisions and how much teeth does it have?

1109
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 1: I think that's a really important point. But we also

1110
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 1: had some news this week that underscores why this is

1111
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 1: so important. As they were referring to in that Matt

1112
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 1: Gates segment, put this next peece up on the screen.

1113
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 1: A Democratic Congressman Lois Frankel. She sold First Republic stock

1114
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 1: before the takeover and the collapse and bought JP Morgan stock,

1115
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:37,879
Speaker 1: and of course JP Morgan Chase ends up being the

1116
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 1: massive beneficiary of this collapse because they get a sweetheart

1117
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 1: deal from the government to take over First Republic Bank.

1118
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:49,880
Speaker 1: So looks like a really intelligent, just insightful, prescient, eerily

1119
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:52,359
Speaker 1: prescient trade that Frankel was able to make.

1120
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 2: Your soccer, these guys are, I mean, there's just so

1121
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 2: shameless about their action, as you know, as Matt said,

1122
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 2: like the to somebody who has been in Congress for

1123
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:05,759
Speaker 2: literally decades, and what I always just come back to

1124
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 2: with all of them is how is not enough? Like,

1125
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,839
Speaker 2: why is it not enough to just sit with your

1126
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 2: personal finances? I just looked it up. She's worth two

1127
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 2: point five million dollars. That's plenty of money. If you

1128
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 2: want to make more money, you can leave Congress. But

1129
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 2: it's never enough for them. You know, she's literally been

1130
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 2: in the House of Representatives for decades. That's another question.

1131
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 2: How exactly you become a millionaire when you're a House

1132
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:32,840
Speaker 2: of Representative of And she's somebody who's long been on

1133
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 2: the list of trading in companies that have been influenced

1134
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 2: directly by their committees. You know, a household or what

1135
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 2: should be some sort of household name. But is such

1136
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 2: a common activity that we have to only call it

1137
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:47,839
Speaker 2: out in extraordinary times. That's why I think it's sick

1138
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 2: about it.

1139
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 1: When you see this one where you're like, come on, really, really, yeah,

1140
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:58,399
Speaker 1: I think it's always important to underscore when you look

1141
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 1: at the overall number, do you really believe that these

1142
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:05,279
Speaker 1: people are consistently beating the markets and doing better than

1143
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 1: you know, people whose job it is to make these

1144
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 1: sorts of trades. No, So, yeah, it is a disgraceful,

1145
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:17,359
Speaker 1: disgraceful situation. I hope that this bipartisan effort picks up substeem.

1146
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: I'm really glad to see it moving forward, and we

1147
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:21,360
Speaker 1: will certainly keep close track of it.

1148
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:24,320
Speaker 2: Yes, we certainly will. I hope that it goes somewhere.

1149
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 2: But you know, you never know whenever it comes to

1150
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 2: things like this. In fact, you do know, which is

1151
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:35,320
Speaker 2: unfortunately every single effort has been quashed.

1152
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:36,840
Speaker 3: Let's go ahead and move on to Epstein.

1153
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 2: We want to give everybody and update two separate things

1154
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 2: coming out, actually one yesterday and another one today. Let's

1155
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 2: go and put this up there on the screen. Jeffrey

1156
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 2: Epstein Documents, Part two. Quote Dinners with Larry Summers and

1157
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 2: movie screenings with Woody Allen. My personal favorite is mister Summers, who,

1158
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:55,320
Speaker 2: of course the former president of Harvard, former US Secretary

1159
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 2: of the Treasury, one of the most influential people in

1160
00:56:57,719 --> 00:56:58,880
Speaker 2: US economic.

1161
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:00,240
Speaker 3: History, probably in decades.

1162
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:03,239
Speaker 2: And it turns out not only was he hanging out

1163
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 2: with Jeffrey epstcene, he was even raising money from Jeffrey

1164
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,840
Speaker 2: Epstein well after he was a convicted sex offender. In

1165
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 2: one case, he says, quote, I need small scale philanthropy advice.

1166
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 2: My life will be better if I raise one million

1167
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 2: dollars for Lisa.

1168
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 3: Lisa, by the way, is his wife. Mostly it will

1169
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 3: go to.

1170
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 2: Make a PBS series and for teacher training ideas.

1171
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 3: And it's because he.

1172
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 2: Wanted to raise this one million for his wife's pet

1173
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 2: PBS poetry project. Now, who amongst us has not had

1174
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:38,120
Speaker 2: access to millions of dollars of our own personal wealth

1175
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 2: but felt the need to placate your do nothing wife's

1176
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 2: poetry PBS poetry idea by soliciting funds.

1177
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 3: From a billionaire.

1178
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:52,480
Speaker 2: It's just very from a pedophile billionaire or pedophile multimillionaire, whatever.

1179
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 3: It's just such a common situation for some.

1180
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 2: Very relatable my life will be better, Well, then spend

1181
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 2: your own one million living on a Caribbean island.

1182
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 3: You're living in Cape Cod all these other places. It's

1183
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 3: just totally ridiculous.

1184
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 2: But what comes across in the new Epstein documents is

1185
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 2: not just his relationship with Summers. It's the fact that

1186
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:18,920
Speaker 2: Summers felt so comfortable raising money from him after years

1187
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 2: of working with him throughout the Harvard Tenure reed Hoffman

1188
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 2: the billionaire venture Capitalists. He even visited Epstein's private island

1189
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 2: in the Caribbean.

1190
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 3: He was scheduled to stay over at his townhouse in

1191
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 3: twenty fourteen.

1192
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 2: Woody Allen, Now that one's a little bit less surprising,

1193
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 2: attended quote dozens of dinners with his wife. Yes, sur

1194
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 2: he did, at Epstein's mansion and invited him to film

1195
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:45,720
Speaker 2: screening ade Barack. We've talked about that a lot either

1196
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 2: former Israeli prime minister.

1197
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 1: But you know, maybe we knew this already and I forgot.

1198
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 1: He says he was introduced to Epstein by another former

1199
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 1: Prime Minister of Israel, Troman for US.

1200
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:01,480
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, you know you have and you also

1201
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 2: had on the list Leon Black, who was one of

1202
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 2: the richest men on all of Wall Street with a

1203
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 2: former founder of Apollo Global Management, scheduled quote more than

1204
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 2: one hundred meetings with Epstein from twenty thirteen to twenty seventeen.

1205
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 3: Don't forget it's already blew my mind.

1206
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 2: Well, it's already come out through tax records that Leon

1207
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 2: Black paid Epstein over one hundred million dollars quote for

1208
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 2: taxis sure that.

1209
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:26,920
Speaker 1: Must be some good tax.

1210
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:27,440
Speaker 3: Great tax adviies.

1211
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 2: Once again, it's so ridiculous on its face. You have

1212
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:33,200
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstin, who's not a qualified tax professional. You're worth

1213
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:35,360
Speaker 2: nine billion. When you have nine billion, you have the

1214
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 2: top tax people on the planet who are available to you,

1215
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 2: who are not convicted sex offenders.

1216
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 3: So you know, like it just begs belief.

1217
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:46,680
Speaker 2: There's a new report that came out just this morning,

1218
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 2: Crystal that I feel compelled to mention. In one day,

1219
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 2: September eighth, twenty fourteen, Jeffrey Epstein was scheduled to meet

1220
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 2: with Bill Gates, Thomas Pritzker, Leon Black, and Mortimer Zuckerman,

1221
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 2: four of the richest men in the entire country. That's

1222
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 2: just one day September eighth, twenty and fourteen, well after

1223
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 2: he had already been convicted as a sex offender. Literally,

1224
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 2: in the ten am hour, he was meeting with pritz

1225
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 2: Gren Gates. At the eleven thirty am hour, he was

1226
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 2: meeting with Black two pm, Mortimer Zuckerman three pm, the

1227
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 2: top lawyer at Goldman and the former White House Council

1228
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 2: Katheryn Rumler five pm Leon Botstein. I mean, every single

1229
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 2: one of the people who I'm just naming here are

1230
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 2: literally like titanically powerful and rich people, which is insane.

1231
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 3: Like, whenever you want.

1232
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 2: To think about it, all of it, by the way

1233
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 2: was actually scheduled to happen in and around either his

1234
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:48,640
Speaker 2: residence or like at the Four Seasons Hotel, And I

1235
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:52,360
Speaker 2: just think, like it's such a perfect view into how

1236
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 2: all of this intersects. The last person who he was

1237
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:59,000
Speaker 2: scheduled with was a quote philanthropic advisor to wealthy families,

1238
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 2: And I just can't get away from this, Like, when

1239
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 2: you're worth a hundred billion, like Bill Gates, why do

1240
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:08,200
Speaker 2: you need help raising money for anything? You have more

1241
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 2: money than God, Like you can fund anything.

1242
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 3: You want marriage out of pocket.

1243
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 2: That's my point though, that they are all of their

1244
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 2: excuses are bs. They don't need help raising money, They

1245
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:25,280
Speaker 2: need help with something else. And the question is what

1246
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 2: is that something else? And that's what I would like

1247
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:28,040
Speaker 2: to know well.

1248
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 1: And the other question is I mean, this is clearly

1249
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 1: not just him casually meeting this person or that person

1250
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 1: that hopped on. This was a very intentional, strategic pursuit

1251
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:42,520
Speaker 1: of people with wealth, power, fame, et cetera connections that

1252
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 1: he engaged in as his job. I mean, this was

1253
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 1: his job was to meet and understand all of the

1254
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 1: you know, deepest needs and desires and whims and and

1255
01:01:56,120 --> 01:02:00,160
Speaker 1: help solve the problems of whatever wealthy, powerful person he

1256
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 1: could get his books into, which apparently was.

1257
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:03,439
Speaker 3: A whole lot all of them.

1258
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 1: You know, just to go back to the Lean black one,

1259
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 1: more than one hundred meetings with Epstein from twenty thirteen

1260
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 1: to twenty seventeen. I don't know if I have one

1261
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 1: hundred meetings with my parents like that is. So that's

1262
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 1: like you're having like a weekly meeting for years. Yeah,

1263
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:22,440
Speaker 1: I mean, this is that blows my mind. And you

1264
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:25,440
Speaker 1: know he was pushed down of Apollo Global over whatever

1265
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 1: the hell was going on here. That one blew my mind.

1266
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:30,480
Speaker 1: There was also there was.

1267
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 3: Twenty five times a year. That's actually every other week. Yeah, yeah,

1268
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 3: you do the like you are.

1269
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 1: A busy, powerful person and you're making time for Jeffrey

1270
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:42,760
Speaker 1: Epstein every other week.

1271
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:46,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's pretty crazy. That is cool. Fifty two weeks and.

1272
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:49,800
Speaker 1: And you know we don't have the more than one hundred, right,

1273
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:52,840
Speaker 1: so you know, it's it's more than every other week.

1274
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:57,880
Speaker 1: So anyway, that is fun. Okay, So there's that. There's

1275
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 1: also a couple of anecdotes in this article that I

1276
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:06,280
Speaker 1: think are really worth going over. One they talk about

1277
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 1: this woman Ava Anderson Dubin a longtime friend and wife

1278
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:14,440
Speaker 1: of hedge fund billionaire Glenn Dubin, invited Epstein to charity

1279
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:18,480
Speaker 1: event to which he contributed in the summer of twenty fifteen.

1280
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 1: Epstein sent her a quote funny story about checking into

1281
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 1: a California hotel with a young woman. Quote from Epstein.

1282
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 1: I went to park the car and the bellman said

1283
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 1: to this young woman, is that your father? He wrote

1284
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 1: in an email, referring to his female companion, who was

1285
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:38,640
Speaker 1: then in her twenties a little old for him. And

1286
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 1: this woman, this billionaire wife or whatever, wrote back Glenn.

1287
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:47,479
Speaker 1: Her husband laughed so hard. What a hilarious joke about

1288
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 1: how young the woman you're with, that they think that

1289
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 1: she's your daughter. So he clearly felt comfortable sharing some

1290
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 1: of his preferences with some of the circle. And there

1291
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:00,919
Speaker 1: was another piece in here where we talked to this guy,

1292
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:04,400
Speaker 1: Barnaby Marsh, who was an executive at a large charitable fund,

1293
01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 1: the John Templeton Foundation. He met with Epstein roughly two

1294
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:09,680
Speaker 1: dozen times off and for breakfast at the townhouse, according

1295
01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 1: to these documents, And he said, so many of these

1296
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:16,919
Speaker 1: billionaires knew him. Nobody ever said watch out for him.

1297
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:20,840
Speaker 1: He said, Epstein convene people, including Microsoft co founder Bill Gates,

1298
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:23,320
Speaker 1: to try to solve problems facing rich donors, such as

1299
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:26,280
Speaker 1: how to make large gifts. Epstein told mister marsh that

1300
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 1: Epstein was managing money for mister Gates. Gates denies that

1301
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 1: that is the case. But I thought that quote was

1302
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 1: incredibly revealing that he's like, yeah, everybody just accepted this guy.

1303
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:38,960
Speaker 1: All these billionaires knew him. He was part of the club,

1304
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 1: so no one asked any questions because he was in

1305
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:41,480
Speaker 1: the club.

1306
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:44,760
Speaker 2: I I just, frankly, don't believe it's that easy. Maybe

1307
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:47,440
Speaker 2: I'm wrong, and maybe I'm very naive. Like, as I

1308
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 2: come back to this, when you're worth billions and billions

1309
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:51,440
Speaker 2: of dollars, every single one of these people, you have

1310
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 2: enough money to quote unquote fund whatever you want completely

1311
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 2: out of your pocket. So why do you need this

1312
01:04:56,400 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 2: sketchy guys help doing this. Clearly something else is happening.

1313
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:04,280
Speaker 2: I don't know what that's something else is. I will

1314
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:06,720
Speaker 2: leave it to you to speculate. I am just saying,

1315
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 2: as you said, Crystal, you don't meet with somebody twenty

1316
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 2: five times twenty five times a year on average. That

1317
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 2: I have great friends who I don't see that often.

1318
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, close, so not even close?

1319
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:22,720
Speaker 3: Yes, ask yourself who you have met twenty five times?

1320
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:26,919
Speaker 2: It better be like somebody who is basically colleague, people, kid,

1321
01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:30,480
Speaker 2: your kid, your culosest closed and even then you know

1322
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:32,520
Speaker 2: the close ones, don't keep them that close.

1323
01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:35,760
Speaker 1: Whenever it comes to fans every other week, who do

1324
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:38,040
Speaker 1: you meet with every other week in your life?

1325
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:40,720
Speaker 2: And when you're worth nine billion dollars, you know, so

1326
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:44,240
Speaker 2: anyway you can take that for what you will.

1327
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 3: Also have good news.

1328
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 2: The private island that he had, let's go and put

1329
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 2: this up there on the screen, has been bought by

1330
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 2: another billionaire.

1331
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:55,120
Speaker 3: Stephen deck Off has agreed to purchase.

1332
01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:58,280
Speaker 2: The two islands for just a mere sixty million dollars.

1333
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 2: What exactly his plans are for the island, you know

1334
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 2: who knows, probably got a great deal on it because

1335
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:05,920
Speaker 2: nobody else wanted it.

1336
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:08,439
Speaker 1: They said that this was half of the initial list price.

1337
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 1: And apparently, you know, the rumor is or what was

1338
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:14,920
Speaker 1: reported out as he wants to build some sort of

1339
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:16,760
Speaker 1: a like resort.

1340
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:19,520
Speaker 2: Well, it already was an exclusive resort for a certain

1341
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:21,800
Speaker 2: other people with other proclivities.

1342
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:24,560
Speaker 1: Kind of kind of perfect that you know, another billionaire.

1343
01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 1: He sees a profit opportunity here, cour doesn't care about

1344
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 1: the history of it, going to go for the money

1345
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:30,520
Speaker 1: making opportunity.

1346
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:32,440
Speaker 3: All right, let's talk about the debates.

1347
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys are going to love this one. So now,

1348
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 1: apparently Cordion Media Matters wanting there to be debates is

1349
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:41,920
Speaker 1: actually right wing and is just a plot, you know,

1350
01:06:42,080 --> 01:06:44,360
Speaker 1: against whatever. Okay, put this up in the screen. Let

1351
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:46,440
Speaker 1: me read you a little bit of this. The headline

1352
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:50,000
Speaker 1: is right wing media are exploiting RFK Junior as a

1353
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 1: spoiler candidate against Joe Biden. They say, many conservative media

1354
01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 1: figures are celebrating longtime anti vaxxer RFK Junior's campaign as

1355
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:03,720
Speaker 1: a potential spoiler against President Joe Biden's reelection, using his

1356
01:07:03,880 --> 01:07:06,400
Speaker 1: entry into the primary to call for democratic debates. Oh

1357
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:09,600
Speaker 1: my god, can you imagine calling for debates that's horrifying,

1358
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:12,440
Speaker 1: which the usually aren't held, they say when a party

1359
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:15,360
Speaker 1: is running an incumbent. Now let me just pause and

1360
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:18,720
Speaker 1: that first sentence because everything about it irritates, I mean,

1361
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:23,640
Speaker 1: the framing of him as a potential spoiler. He's not

1362
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:26,560
Speaker 1: running against him as an independent right right, if this

1363
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:29,560
Speaker 1: was a like Jill Stein situation, who's running as you know,

1364
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 1: Green party or third party or whatever. I can see

1365
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:34,640
Speaker 1: the case right, I could see how they could frame

1366
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 1: him or as a spoiler candidate. Now, I still wouldn't

1367
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 1: accept that framing because I think democracy is good and

1368
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 1: I think it's better to have more choices than fewer choices.

1369
01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 1: But I could at least accept that there is an

1370
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:48,040
Speaker 1: alternative view and that this could be a damaging thing

1371
01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:51,919
Speaker 1: to Joe Biden's reelection prospects. He and Marian Williamson too.

1372
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 1: They're not running against Joe as third party candidates. They're

1373
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:58,360
Speaker 1: running against him in the primary. And all they want

1374
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:01,280
Speaker 1: is exactly what the demomocratic base once, which is for

1375
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:06,520
Speaker 1: people to be able to evaluate alternatives. Now, listen, I

1376
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:09,320
Speaker 1: have no doubt that Steve bann and the other people

1377
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:11,520
Speaker 1: that they quote here are they interested in sowing chaos

1378
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:13,680
Speaker 1: and the Democratic Party, no doubt about it. Are they

1379
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:16,200
Speaker 1: like good intention and just really want to see democracy

1380
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:18,320
Speaker 1: plan and of course they don't want to see that.

1381
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:23,080
Speaker 1: But to frame this as exclusively the interest and domain

1382
01:08:23,479 --> 01:08:28,280
Speaker 1: of you know, right wing like Steve bannonites is just incredible.

1383
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 1: It's not just misleading, it is an out and out lie,

1384
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:33,720
Speaker 1: and so let me show you how I know that

1385
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:36,280
Speaker 1: to be the case. There was just a poll that

1386
01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:38,599
Speaker 1: was done by Newsweek and they asked people to put

1387
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 1: this up on the screen. They asked, Joe Biden voters, Okay,

1388
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:45,439
Speaker 1: not all voters, just people who voted for Joe Biden

1389
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 1: last time around. Should the Democratic Party hold primary debates?

1390
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:54,720
Speaker 1: Guess what? Seventy nine percent of them said, obviously, like,

1391
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:57,600
Speaker 1: we actually believe in democracy and we would like to

1392
01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:01,360
Speaker 1: see some primary debates. Are those right wing people looking

1393
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:04,720
Speaker 1: for a Joe Biden spoiler to reelect Trump? Of course not.

1394
01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:09,080
Speaker 1: They just look at the reality of this very aged

1395
01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:12,120
Speaker 1: president and their deep concerns about the future of the

1396
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:14,960
Speaker 1: country and by the way, his ability to defeat Donald Trump,

1397
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:16,800
Speaker 1: and they're like, maybe we should at least have a

1398
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:19,320
Speaker 1: chance to evaluate our options. And the last thing I'll

1399
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:21,960
Speaker 1: say about the cigar, if I gets your reaction, is

1400
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:24,479
Speaker 1: part of the cope in that Media Matters article is

1401
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:26,800
Speaker 1: all about how well they didn't have. You know, they

1402
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 1: don't normally have debates in the primaries when there's an

1403
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:33,200
Speaker 1: incumbent president. First of all, oftentimes there isn't a significant challenge.

1404
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 1: And whatever you think about Mary and Williamson and RFK Junior.

1405
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:39,120
Speaker 1: They're already both pulling in double digits RKS at like

1406
01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:44,000
Speaker 1: twenty percent. Okay, these are significant challenges. They have nationwide followings.

1407
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:45,920
Speaker 1: People deserve to hear from them, and if you have

1408
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:48,400
Speaker 1: issues with them, then you shouldn't be worried about them

1409
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:50,640
Speaker 1: being up on a stage. Great they can be exposed

1410
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:52,760
Speaker 1: as the clowns that some people think that they are,

1411
01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:55,200
Speaker 1: or perhaps they will have interesting things to add to

1412
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:57,280
Speaker 1: the conversation that'll be relevant and by the way, might

1413
01:09:57,280 --> 01:09:59,280
Speaker 1: actually make Joe Biden a better candidate if he is

1414
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:02,080
Speaker 1: able to survive that process. I think it is an

1415
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:05,479
Speaker 1: insane argument to say that, oh, well, because we didn't

1416
01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:08,679
Speaker 1: really have democracy in the past, we shouldn't have democracy now.

1417
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:12,559
Speaker 1: Like that is a ridiculous absurd you know, fig leaf

1418
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:16,360
Speaker 1: to try to use to cover your anti democratic authoritarian tendencies.

1419
01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:19,280
Speaker 2: Here, once again, I always come back to nineteen eighty

1420
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:24,400
Speaker 2: President Jimmy Carter is weak, feckless, some would say, some

1421
01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:27,120
Speaker 2: would say about to get wiped out by Ronald Reagan.

1422
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 2: That was empirically true.

1423
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:30,679
Speaker 3: Senator Ted Kennedy decides to run against him.

1424
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:34,360
Speaker 2: They do have actual debates on the debate stage, they

1425
01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:37,240
Speaker 2: fight it out in a big primary and guess what, Crystal,

1426
01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:39,320
Speaker 2: he won only thirty seven percent of the vote.

1427
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:41,680
Speaker 3: You know Ted Kennedy did at that time. That's not

1428
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:42,400
Speaker 3: too far away.

1429
01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:45,200
Speaker 2: If you combine Mary Anne Williamson and Bobby Kennedy or

1430
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:48,880
Speaker 2: and yeah, what is he his nephew? I guess rfk

1431
01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:52,360
Speaker 2: Junior would be Ted Kennedy's nephew. So it wasn't that

1432
01:10:52,439 --> 01:10:55,400
Speaker 2: long ago that you had a competitive primary with the

1433
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:58,479
Speaker 2: debate where Kennedy only ended up winning thirty seven percent,

1434
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:00,200
Speaker 2: and that was only in a one off. So if

1435
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:02,800
Speaker 2: you have two candidates in the race or roughly around that,

1436
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:04,960
Speaker 2: then why shouldn't they be treated in the exact same

1437
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:08,120
Speaker 2: seriousness in way that we handled the nineteen eighty Democratic

1438
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:11,160
Speaker 2: presidential primary. It was totally reasonable, and by the way,

1439
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:13,200
Speaker 2: there's a lot of evidence to say Carter was probably

1440
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 2: better off for it because it made him sharp and

1441
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:17,519
Speaker 2: had to defend his record before he went into the

1442
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:20,600
Speaker 2: incumbency fight against Ronald Reagan. So it's not even like

1443
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:22,240
Speaker 2: it was all that bad, and it also shored up

1444
01:11:22,240 --> 01:11:24,679
Speaker 2: as his support because he definitively won the primary.

1445
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:26,280
Speaker 3: Again, he wasn't just handed the nomination.

1446
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:30,280
Speaker 1: The Republicans had a very spirited debate in twenty sixteen,

1447
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:33,280
Speaker 1: and guess what, it didn't hurt Donald Trump. He ends

1448
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:35,800
Speaker 1: up winning, and I think probably made him a better

1449
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 1: candidate for better or worse, because he went through that

1450
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:42,840
Speaker 1: democratic process. Barack Obaman, Hillary Clinton had a very spirited

1451
01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:45,840
Speaker 1: primary debate, and guess what, it really sharpened him and

1452
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 1: made him a much more effective candidate going in two

1453
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:54,320
Speaker 1: thousand and eight. So this notion that democracy will damage

1454
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:59,160
Speaker 1: the prospects of whoever emerges from the Democratic primary, I

1455
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:02,200
Speaker 1: think is ludicrous. I think it's ahistorical, and I think

1456
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:07,960
Speaker 1: it's just incredibly intentionally misleading. So we see the path

1457
01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:11,959
Speaker 1: they're on here. Number one, they just dismiss any potential challengers.

1458
01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:15,479
Speaker 1: These ones aren't serious. It's like according to who because actually,

1459
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:17,960
Speaker 1: if you're as American people, and this is with total

1460
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:22,160
Speaker 1: media blackout, total media's mirror campaigns, still, the Democratic primary

1461
01:12:22,200 --> 01:12:25,479
Speaker 1: base is like, we see something there to the tune

1462
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:28,960
Speaker 1: of double digit support. And I'd be very interested, by

1463
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:30,559
Speaker 1: the way, to see a pole out of New Hampshire

1464
01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:32,760
Speaker 1: specifically of these three candidates. I think you would see

1465
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:36,320
Speaker 1: a pretty interesting landscape. So they want to just dismiss

1466
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:38,479
Speaker 1: them as kooks and wacos. You have no choice because

1467
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:41,800
Speaker 1: you know, none of them are quote unquote serious. Any

1468
01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:44,960
Speaker 1: sort of plot to have a real democratic, small d

1469
01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:49,439
Speaker 1: democratic process is just a right wing scheme, spoiler scheme.

1470
01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:52,080
Speaker 1: And you know, bottom line, we just don't think that

1471
01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:54,880
Speaker 1: you should have a choice in the interest of saving democracy.

1472
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:56,880
Speaker 1: We should have no democracy effectively.

1473
01:12:57,120 --> 01:13:00,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's completely ridiculous. I support debait I

1474
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:02,960
Speaker 2: think debates are good. I'm doing my monologue today about

1475
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:06,040
Speaker 2: debates about presidential debates and how there are different ways

1476
01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:08,760
Speaker 2: that we can fix it. And yeah, I just come

1477
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:12,719
Speaker 2: back to the truth that at the times in American

1478
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:16,320
Speaker 2: history when we had the least amount of direct democracy.

1479
01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:19,840
Speaker 2: So I'm talking here about like when senators were appointed

1480
01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:22,760
Speaker 2: at one point by the state legislature, which is insane

1481
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:24,760
Speaker 2: in aspect, they were basically.

1482
01:13:24,360 --> 01:13:25,040
Speaker 3: Just bought off.

1483
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:28,080
Speaker 2: It's like whoever the richest guy was was the person

1484
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:31,880
Speaker 2: who would get himself appointed to the Senate. And it

1485
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:36,840
Speaker 2: was outrageously corrupt. And even in terms of the primary

1486
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:40,280
Speaker 2: system or the convention system, where you'd have like smoke

1487
01:13:40,320 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 2: filled back rooms in the pre primary age, which again

1488
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:47,080
Speaker 2: not that long ago really only created in the nineteen sixties.

1489
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:51,920
Speaker 2: Before that time, it was outrageously corrupt because you had

1490
01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:53,960
Speaker 2: the big business interest and all these other people just

1491
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:56,880
Speaker 2: pick who they decided to be was president. Now, look,

1492
01:13:56,920 --> 01:13:58,960
Speaker 2: I love FDR. I think he was a great president,

1493
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:03,080
Speaker 2: but think about this. They selected Harry Truman. They didn't

1494
01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:05,880
Speaker 2: even tell anybody that FDR was deathly ill whenever he's

1495
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:08,680
Speaker 2: running for his fourth term. And they effectively selected this

1496
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:13,000
Speaker 2: man for political purposes with no truth to the American

1497
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:15,880
Speaker 2: people that he very likely would become the next president

1498
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:18,920
Speaker 2: of the United States. That's crazy, like when you really

1499
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:20,760
Speaker 2: consider it. On the merrits, it worked out. I think

1500
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:22,800
Speaker 2: Truman was a good president, but it could have gone

1501
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:24,640
Speaker 2: the other way. It could have gone the Andrew Johnson way,

1502
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:25,880
Speaker 2: which he has well.

1503
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:29,360
Speaker 1: Also. I mean, here's the other thing. Joe Biden doesn't

1504
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:33,519
Speaker 1: do many press appearances, he doesn't give many interviews. So

1505
01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:36,640
Speaker 1: you have a Democratic base that continues to be very

1506
01:14:36,720 --> 01:14:39,280
Speaker 1: concerned with electability and really wants to make sure that

1507
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:41,240
Speaker 1: they can defeat you know, Donald Trump or if it's

1508
01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:43,120
Speaker 1: Rond De Santis or whoever it ends up being, but

1509
01:14:43,160 --> 01:14:46,240
Speaker 1: probably Donald Trump. They're very interested in that and they

1510
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:49,320
Speaker 1: deserve an opportunity to assess whether Joe Biden is still

1511
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:51,360
Speaker 1: that candidate, and I think that there are some real

1512
01:14:51,439 --> 01:14:55,320
Speaker 1: questions about that. And by the way, if Biden's own

1513
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:59,920
Speaker 1: team felt confident in his ability to you know, perry

1514
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:03,479
Speaker 1: and debate and articulate a vision, they would be approaching

1515
01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:06,240
Speaker 1: the campaign with a very different strategy. Right now, there

1516
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:09,280
Speaker 1: are no big campaign rallies planned. He launches with this

1517
01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:12,599
Speaker 1: low key video. Now he's really planning on just trying

1518
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:15,200
Speaker 1: to stay in the shadows and hope that Trump is

1519
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:16,960
Speaker 1: insane enough that people are like, all right, I guess

1520
01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:19,120
Speaker 1: we got to stick with Joe. And he's hoping that

1521
01:15:19,120 --> 01:15:21,880
Speaker 1: the media, like this person did for them, will just

1522
01:15:22,040 --> 01:15:24,200
Speaker 1: try to convince the whole Democratic base that you have

1523
01:15:24,280 --> 01:15:26,120
Speaker 1: no other options, so stuck it up and vote for

1524
01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:26,679
Speaker 1: Joe again.

1525
01:15:26,840 --> 01:15:32,400
Speaker 3: Very true, Chriscell, What are you taking a look at?

1526
01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:35,439
Speaker 1: There is a new shocking report out of Louisville, Kentucky.

1527
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:38,840
Speaker 1: So apparently the Department of Labor found that two ten

1528
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:43,000
Speaker 1: year olds were working unpaid shifts at a McDonald's restaurant.

1529
01:15:43,160 --> 01:15:45,960
Speaker 1: This is just as horrifying as it sounds. According to

1530
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:49,160
Speaker 1: CBS News, officials said The children were not paid yet

1531
01:15:49,160 --> 01:15:52,759
Speaker 1: sometimes worked as late as two am, and they quote

1532
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:56,280
Speaker 1: prepared and distributed food orders, cleaned the store, worked at

1533
01:15:56,280 --> 01:15:59,800
Speaker 1: the drive through window, and operated a register. Investigators learned

1534
01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:02,320
Speaker 1: that one of the two children was allowed to operate

1535
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:05,799
Speaker 1: a deep friar that is a prohibited task for workers

1536
01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:08,719
Speaker 1: under the age of sixteen. Now there's a good reason

1537
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:11,240
Speaker 1: kids under sixteen are barred for working the deep frier.

1538
01:16:11,439 --> 01:16:14,160
Speaker 1: It's really dangerous. Just a year ago, a fifteen year

1539
01:16:14,160 --> 01:16:16,559
Speaker 1: old in Tennessee suffered hot oil burns while working the

1540
01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:19,720
Speaker 1: deep frier at a different McDonald's. Now, the owner of

1541
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:22,920
Speaker 1: this offending McDonald's, Bower LLC, claimed no awareness of the

1542
01:16:22,960 --> 01:16:24,800
Speaker 1: fact that ten year olds were working the register, manning

1543
01:16:24,800 --> 01:16:27,320
Speaker 1: the drive through, and operating the deep frier. Owner Sean

1544
01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:29,640
Speaker 1: Bauer told CBS News the kids were not approved to

1545
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:31,320
Speaker 1: be in that part of the restaurant and that they

1546
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:33,360
Speaker 1: were there at the direction of and in the presence

1547
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:36,479
Speaker 1: of their parents. But this is far from the first

1548
01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:39,479
Speaker 1: child labor law violation from mister Bauer's company. They were

1549
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:41,880
Speaker 1: hit with a forty thousand dollars assessment after the Department

1550
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:45,080
Speaker 1: of Labor found they had twenty four kids under sixteen

1551
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:48,439
Speaker 1: working longer than approved hours. Nor is this a problem

1552
01:16:48,439 --> 01:16:53,400
Speaker 1: confined to this one McDonald's franchisees. There are three McDonald's franchisees,

1553
01:16:53,560 --> 01:16:56,640
Speaker 1: which combined operates sixty two McDonald's that were found to

1554
01:16:56,680 --> 01:17:00,479
Speaker 1: have worked three hundred and five children longer than the

1555
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:04,679
Speaker 1: allowable hours. Now, this is part of a larger trend which,

1556
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:07,679
Speaker 1: through new laws and violations of existing laws, is working

1557
01:17:07,680 --> 01:17:10,560
Speaker 1: to roll back a century's worth of child labor protections.

1558
01:17:10,680 --> 01:17:13,800
Speaker 1: According to the Economic Policy Institute, the number of child

1559
01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:17,720
Speaker 1: labor law violations has skyrocketed over two hundred percent since

1560
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:20,759
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, and we have seen a thirty seven percent

1561
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:24,240
Speaker 1: increase just year over year. A recent investigation found kids

1562
01:17:24,280 --> 01:17:28,320
Speaker 1: aged thirteen to seventeen employed by a meat packing sanitation company.

1563
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:31,920
Speaker 1: These kids were forced to clean backsaws, brisket saws, and

1564
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:34,240
Speaker 1: head splitters at meat packing plants owned by some of

1565
01:17:34,280 --> 01:17:36,760
Speaker 1: the top names in big food in this country. New

1566
01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:39,519
Speaker 1: York Times recently published a heartbreaking report on the way

1567
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:42,439
Speaker 1: undocumented kids are being funneled into a nationwide network of

1568
01:17:42,479 --> 01:17:47,360
Speaker 1: effectively indentured servitude, exploited for low wages, backbreaking labor, and

1569
01:17:47,479 --> 01:17:50,920
Speaker 1: horrifying conditions, all because their youth and immigration status make

1570
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:55,320
Speaker 1: them easy prey. Just as disturbing is the successful industry

1571
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:58,679
Speaker 1: lobbying effort to make some of these harmful practices perfectly legal.

1572
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:01,720
Speaker 1: This year alone, eight bills have been pushed in six

1573
01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:05,439
Speaker 1: different states to roll back child labor restrictions. Arkansas made

1574
01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:07,840
Speaker 1: headlines when Governor Sarah could Be Sanders signed a law

1575
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:10,840
Speaker 1: repealing restrictions on fourteen and fifteen year olds as a

1576
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:14,960
Speaker 1: group of children appearing rather bereft looked on. We covered

1577
01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:18,679
Speaker 1: recently how Iowa has gone even further. A newly signed

1578
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:21,519
Speaker 1: law brings us straight back to dickens, with young teens

1579
01:18:21,520 --> 01:18:25,960
Speaker 1: working on assembly lines, in meat coolers, in construction, and

1580
01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:29,640
Speaker 1: in industrial laundries, and a circle back here to McDonald's

1581
01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:33,040
Speaker 1: illegally employing literal ten year olds. One of the main

1582
01:18:33,160 --> 01:18:37,000
Speaker 1: drivers behind these changes is the powerful National Restaurant Association,

1583
01:18:37,360 --> 01:18:41,240
Speaker 1: a giant lobby for big food interests including McDonald's. More

1584
01:18:41,240 --> 01:18:43,840
Speaker 1: perfect union basically got one of their lobbies to admit

1585
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:46,800
Speaker 1: that they wrote the draconian Iowa bill. The timing of

1586
01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:49,759
Speaker 1: this push to kids into meat lockers and handling deep friars,

1587
01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:52,360
Speaker 1: by the way, is no accident. For my entire life,

1588
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:55,000
Speaker 1: employers had the upper hand with workers in every single way.

1589
01:18:55,000 --> 01:18:57,040
Speaker 1: They could treat the most disposable, they could crush any

1590
01:18:57,040 --> 01:18:59,439
Speaker 1: fledgling union attempts, they could steal their wages, and they

1591
01:18:59,439 --> 01:19:01,720
Speaker 1: could pay them very little. Well, a lot of this

1592
01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:03,800
Speaker 1: is still going on, but now workers are trying to

1593
01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:08,000
Speaker 1: get immodicum of power back. Unemployment is low, labor market

1594
01:19:08,040 --> 01:19:11,120
Speaker 1: is tight. That gives individual workers more power on their own,

1595
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 1: since they can leave an abuse of low paying or

1596
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:15,920
Speaker 1: exploited of jobs with a higher level of confidence that

1597
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:18,479
Speaker 1: they will be able to find something else. In fact,

1598
01:19:18,560 --> 01:19:21,559
Speaker 1: even as inflation continues to buy there's some decently encouraging

1599
01:19:21,560 --> 01:19:24,760
Speaker 1: things happening for the lowest wage workers. Working paper from

1600
01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:27,800
Speaker 1: the National Bureau of Economic Research finds that wages are

1601
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:30,519
Speaker 1: rising quickest for the lowest paid workers. That this trend

1602
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:33,120
Speaker 1: has actually reduced inequality. That's a phrase I have not

1603
01:19:33,200 --> 01:19:35,880
Speaker 1: heard in my entire life. This trend has also shrunk

1604
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:39,200
Speaker 1: the college wage. Premium retailers like Target and Walmart have

1605
01:19:39,200 --> 01:19:41,240
Speaker 1: been forced to hike wages in order to retain or

1606
01:19:41,240 --> 01:19:43,519
Speaker 1: attract the workers that they need to staff their stores.

1607
01:19:43,720 --> 01:19:45,439
Speaker 1: And obviously they're not doing all of this out of

1608
01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:47,680
Speaker 1: the goodness of their hearts. But rather than have to

1609
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:51,519
Speaker 1: raise wages, big business would rather maintain their record breaking

1610
01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:55,000
Speaker 1: profit margins and just find cheaper and more vulnerable labor.

1611
01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:56,760
Speaker 1: And that, of course, is where the kids come in.

1612
01:19:56,920 --> 01:19:59,599
Speaker 1: Employers love child labor for the same reason today as

1613
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:01,880
Speaker 1: they did a hundred years ago. Kids are cheap, they

1614
01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:04,880
Speaker 1: can be more easily manipulated, and crucially, they're less likely

1615
01:20:04,920 --> 01:20:07,280
Speaker 1: to form a union. In fact, it was the labor

1616
01:20:07,320 --> 01:20:11,280
Speaker 1: movement which successfully pushed the first federal child labor protections.

1617
01:20:11,320 --> 01:20:14,240
Speaker 1: All the way back in the nineteen thirties, photographer Lewis

1618
01:20:14,280 --> 01:20:18,040
Speaker 1: Hine traveled the country documenting kids in dangerous and horrible

1619
01:20:18,040 --> 01:20:22,559
Speaker 1: working conditions. This shocked and horrified America. At the same time,

1620
01:20:22,680 --> 01:20:25,120
Speaker 1: activists made the case of the country that child labor

1621
01:20:25,200 --> 01:20:27,840
Speaker 1: was bad for everyone except big business because it also

1622
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:31,400
Speaker 1: depressed wages for adult workers. That was a compelling argument

1623
01:20:31,439 --> 01:20:33,120
Speaker 1: at the time, as the nation was struggling through the

1624
01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:36,960
Speaker 1: Great Depression. Organized labor made the success of this multi

1625
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:40,880
Speaker 1: pronged effort possible. Now, in our current moment, unions have

1626
01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:44,439
Speaker 1: been beaten back. Union density is at historic lows. However,

1627
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:47,880
Speaker 1: employers especially those in the service sector, feel the threat

1628
01:20:48,120 --> 01:20:52,080
Speaker 1: of potential unionization like they haven't in decades. Successful union

1629
01:20:52,160 --> 01:20:55,400
Speaker 1: drives at Starbucks, Rii, Chipotle, and elsewhere they have made

1630
01:20:55,400 --> 01:20:58,680
Speaker 1: fast food and retail a real target. The desire to

1631
01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:02,080
Speaker 1: avoid a union is another often overlooked reason that big

1632
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:04,959
Speaker 1: business prefers to rely on young teens for their workforce

1633
01:21:05,080 --> 01:21:08,280
Speaker 1: or even apparently ten year olds. Now, if there's one

1634
01:21:08,280 --> 01:21:10,360
Speaker 1: thing I've realized in the past few years, it's that

1635
01:21:10,520 --> 01:21:13,919
Speaker 1: bad old ideas they're never really dead. They're just dormant,

1636
01:21:14,120 --> 01:21:16,559
Speaker 1: waiting for a moment of opportunity to rear their ugly

1637
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:19,760
Speaker 1: heads again. Whether it's the post dobs whores, women being

1638
01:21:19,760 --> 01:21:22,000
Speaker 1: forced to bleed out in a parking lot until they're

1639
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:25,120
Speaker 1: near death before doctors will actually treat them, or new

1640
01:21:25,120 --> 01:21:28,479
Speaker 1: effort to trap spouses in unhappy or abusive marriages by

1641
01:21:28,560 --> 01:21:31,400
Speaker 1: rolling back no fault divorce laws, or kids being sent

1642
01:21:31,439 --> 01:21:34,559
Speaker 1: to clean head splitters in meat packing plants when they

1643
01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:36,960
Speaker 1: should be you know, doing homework and getting ready for

1644
01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:40,639
Speaker 1: school or just being kids. We must apparently remain ever

1645
01:21:40,920 --> 01:21:43,519
Speaker 1: vigilant to make sure that rights remain intact and that

1646
01:21:43,560 --> 01:21:46,000
Speaker 1: our fast food is not being served up by Happy

1647
01:21:46,040 --> 01:21:50,960
Speaker 1: Meal age children. These days, nothing is sacred. This story

1648
01:21:51,320 --> 01:21:54,200
Speaker 1: has sparked a national outcry just because of the tender

1649
01:21:54,240 --> 01:21:55,160
Speaker 1: age of these because.

1650
01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:55,800
Speaker 3: They're so young.

1651
01:21:57,400 --> 01:21:59,679
Speaker 2: And if you want to hear my reaction to crystals

1652
01:21:59,720 --> 01:22:06,240
Speaker 2: model become a premium subscriber today at breakingpoints dot com.

1653
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:07,760
Speaker 1: All right, sorry are we looking at well.

1654
01:22:07,880 --> 01:22:10,760
Speaker 2: In nineteen sixty four, Marsha McLuhan published a landmark book.

1655
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:14,160
Speaker 2: It was titled Understanding Media the Extensions of Man. In

1656
01:22:14,200 --> 01:22:16,639
Speaker 2: the book, McLuhan coined a popular phrase that you might

1657
01:22:16,640 --> 01:22:20,080
Speaker 2: have heard quote, the medium is the message. The theory

1658
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:22,840
Speaker 2: behind it is that focusing on the content produced in

1659
01:22:22,880 --> 01:22:25,680
Speaker 2: mass society is less important than a study of the

1660
01:22:25,760 --> 01:22:29,639
Speaker 2: medium producing the content, as in, don't look to critique

1661
01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:33,400
Speaker 2: a specific TV show, look to cable TV and the

1662
01:22:33,479 --> 01:22:36,639
Speaker 2: distribution itself. The medium is the message a very useful

1663
01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:39,360
Speaker 2: analytical tool. Another way to think about it is systems

1664
01:22:39,439 --> 01:22:43,600
Speaker 2: versus individual actors. Many neoliberals today speak about how politics

1665
01:22:43,680 --> 01:22:46,439
Speaker 2: is broken. What they really mean, though, is their party

1666
01:22:46,520 --> 01:22:48,400
Speaker 2: is good and the other party is bad.

1667
01:22:48,680 --> 01:22:50,200
Speaker 3: But when people like me say.

1668
01:22:50,040 --> 01:22:53,240
Speaker 2: Politics is broken, we're seeing the whole system, both parties.

1669
01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:55,879
Speaker 2: We're taking a step back. It's not about red and blue.

1670
01:22:56,000 --> 01:22:59,160
Speaker 2: We're talking about the construct itself. Why that is poisonous.

1671
01:22:59,479 --> 01:23:01,719
Speaker 2: That's the framework I'm using to look at our current

1672
01:23:01,800 --> 01:23:06,480
Speaker 2: presidential debates, events which both mean everything and are meaningless.

1673
01:23:06,760 --> 01:23:10,519
Speaker 2: We have reams of political science evidence that exists to

1674
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:14,559
Speaker 2: say presidential debates have almost no impact on the eventual

1675
01:23:14,600 --> 01:23:17,880
Speaker 2: outcome of an election anymore, there is decent evidence to

1676
01:23:17,880 --> 01:23:20,439
Speaker 2: say they are matter a lot in the context of

1677
01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:24,280
Speaker 2: primary debates intra party, where hyper committed voters want to

1678
01:23:24,280 --> 01:23:26,519
Speaker 2: see how candidates fare against each other and see if

1679
01:23:26,560 --> 01:23:28,720
Speaker 2: they could ever see them as president. Yet that's not

1680
01:23:28,760 --> 01:23:32,519
Speaker 2: the only reason to have debates, is it. Sometimes it's

1681
01:23:32,520 --> 01:23:35,960
Speaker 2: not just about whether it would change in election. Sometimes

1682
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:39,240
Speaker 2: it's the only forum that exists where candidates can get

1683
01:23:39,280 --> 01:23:42,960
Speaker 2: pressed directly about what they actually think, not just from

1684
01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:45,800
Speaker 2: their opponent, but also by the press. That's why I

1685
01:23:45,960 --> 01:23:48,679
Speaker 2: was heartened to see some news that the mainstream media

1686
01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:51,519
Speaker 2: is actually freaking out about right now, the Republican Party,

1687
01:23:51,560 --> 01:23:54,840
Speaker 2: and specifically Donald Trump's effort to ditch the Commission on

1688
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:59,360
Speaker 2: Presidential Debates. Top Republican officials on Trump's behest recently met

1689
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:01,880
Speaker 2: with the largest TV networks in the country to pose

1690
01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:04,559
Speaker 2: an interesting question to them, what would you do if

1691
01:24:04,600 --> 01:24:08,000
Speaker 2: the party ditched the Commission on Presidential Debates and sets

1692
01:24:08,080 --> 01:24:09,840
Speaker 2: up a new one outside.

1693
01:24:09,439 --> 01:24:10,639
Speaker 3: Of the existing system.

1694
01:24:10,960 --> 01:24:13,000
Speaker 2: The TV networks did not give an answer, but the

1695
01:24:13,080 --> 01:24:16,439
Speaker 2: leak is no coincidence. The Commission on Presidential Debates is

1696
01:24:16,479 --> 01:24:19,080
Speaker 2: a perfect example of how flawed and terrible our current

1697
01:24:19,120 --> 01:24:22,679
Speaker 2: system is and how much the dying establishment media maintains

1698
01:24:22,720 --> 01:24:26,280
Speaker 2: control on our discourse. For historical context, the Commission on

1699
01:24:26,280 --> 01:24:29,400
Speaker 2: Presidential Debates is not some hallowed institution. It was only

1700
01:24:29,400 --> 01:24:32,080
Speaker 2: created in nineteen eighty seven by the chairs of the

1701
01:24:32,120 --> 01:24:33,759
Speaker 2: Republican and Democratic parties.

1702
01:24:33,880 --> 01:24:34,760
Speaker 3: But well, a lot of.

1703
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:37,480
Speaker 2: People don't know is that the reason this was created

1704
01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:41,760
Speaker 2: was specifically to rig the system by both candidates. You

1705
01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:44,840
Speaker 2: see before the Commission on Presidential Debates, the League of

1706
01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:48,719
Speaker 2: Women Voters sponsored presidential debates from nineteen sixty to nineteen

1707
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:51,240
Speaker 2: eighty eight. By all accounts, the actually did a fantastic job.

1708
01:24:51,960 --> 01:24:53,599
Speaker 2: To this day, you can go back and you can

1709
01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:56,400
Speaker 2: watch debates from nineteen sixties to nineteen eighty eight, and

1710
01:24:56,439 --> 01:24:58,479
Speaker 2: you can see much more substance than any of the

1711
01:24:58,479 --> 01:24:59,559
Speaker 2: debates in the cable TV.

1712
01:25:00,200 --> 01:25:01,439
Speaker 3: The reason the League.

1713
01:25:01,240 --> 01:25:04,599
Speaker 2: Itself pulled out from the debates, is one that pertains

1714
01:25:04,600 --> 01:25:07,280
Speaker 2: to our subject. In nineteen eighty eight, the Ducaccus and

1715
01:25:07,360 --> 01:25:11,360
Speaker 2: Bush campaign negotiated a secret memorandum of understanding where the

1716
01:25:11,360 --> 01:25:15,080
Speaker 2: two campaigns met and hashed out terms of how the

1717
01:25:15,160 --> 01:25:18,439
Speaker 2: debate would go, including but not limited to the selection

1718
01:25:18,520 --> 01:25:22,120
Speaker 2: of questioners, the composition of the audience, hall, access for

1719
01:25:22,160 --> 01:25:24,960
Speaker 2: the press, and tons of other issues like that. The League,

1720
01:25:25,000 --> 01:25:27,519
Speaker 2: to its credit, said no, we're not doing that. We're

1721
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:29,479
Speaker 2: not going to give you any of that. Our debates

1722
01:25:29,479 --> 01:25:31,800
Speaker 2: are independent and we are up to us. So what

1723
01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:34,320
Speaker 2: do the campaigns do? They ditched the League and they

1724
01:25:34,360 --> 01:25:37,280
Speaker 2: created our current system. The Commission on Presidential Debates is

1725
01:25:37,320 --> 01:25:41,040
Speaker 2: sponsored by massive fortune five hundred companies, so called luminaries

1726
01:25:41,040 --> 01:25:45,000
Speaker 2: of society. These people together partner with establishment media journalists

1727
01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:48,160
Speaker 2: like Chris Wallace last time around for debate. For our

1728
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:51,719
Speaker 2: current debates from that point forward, they negotiate the awful

1729
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:53,880
Speaker 2: and staid format that we have all become used to,

1730
01:25:54,160 --> 01:25:56,280
Speaker 2: the so called head to head debate in round one,

1731
01:25:56,280 --> 01:25:58,160
Speaker 2: where the answers are fake and they're short, and all

1732
01:25:58,200 --> 01:26:02,000
Speaker 2: the rules are agreed to beforehand, then you learn absolutely nothing.

1733
01:26:02,200 --> 01:26:04,640
Speaker 2: The famous town Hall debate for the second one, that

1734
01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:07,719
Speaker 2: too is rigged, it's a TV event, and then finally

1735
01:26:07,760 --> 01:26:08,840
Speaker 2: the Foreign policy debate.

1736
01:26:08,960 --> 01:26:10,920
Speaker 3: They've become predictable.

1737
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:14,479
Speaker 2: Affairs where Americans learn nothing and again to reiterate this

1738
01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:18,120
Speaker 2: is by design. The entire reason for the Commission's existence

1739
01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:21,479
Speaker 2: is specifically because campaigns and major parties want as much

1740
01:26:21,479 --> 01:26:24,599
Speaker 2: control as possible, even they seem to have gotten carried away,

1741
01:26:24,600 --> 01:26:27,160
Speaker 2: though in fact, one of the reasons the Trump campaign

1742
01:26:27,200 --> 01:26:30,679
Speaker 2: doesn't trust the Commission is because during the scheduled second debate,

1743
01:26:30,880 --> 01:26:34,360
Speaker 2: the selected moderator was c SPAN Steve Scully. Trump ended

1744
01:26:34,439 --> 01:26:37,240
Speaker 2: up missing that debate because he contracted COVID. But there

1745
01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:40,160
Speaker 2: was one issue with Scully. He was actually an intern

1746
01:26:40,240 --> 01:26:43,080
Speaker 2: for Joe Biden in his college days. I mean, come on,

1747
01:26:43,200 --> 01:26:45,120
Speaker 2: there are a lot of liberal journalists in this country.

1748
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:47,080
Speaker 2: Can't you at least select one that didn't work for

1749
01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:50,360
Speaker 2: one of the guys on the stage. It's just absurd. Now,

1750
01:26:50,360 --> 01:26:51,960
Speaker 2: the only reason he didn't get more attention is because

1751
01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:54,679
Speaker 2: that debate never happened. But it does reveal how deep

1752
01:26:54,760 --> 01:26:58,360
Speaker 2: the rot inside the Commission has actually gone. It's time

1753
01:26:58,400 --> 01:27:00,720
Speaker 2: to just blow up the Commission on President Debate it's

1754
01:27:00,720 --> 01:27:03,360
Speaker 2: time to kick it back to an open system. Let

1755
01:27:03,479 --> 01:27:07,040
Speaker 2: chaos reign, because inside of chaos we might.

1756
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:09,280
Speaker 3: Actually accidentally get information.

1757
01:27:09,600 --> 01:27:12,799
Speaker 2: And let's basically anyone who should be able to bid

1758
01:27:12,960 --> 01:27:15,880
Speaker 2: for both of those candidates get a format, and let's

1759
01:27:15,960 --> 01:27:18,000
Speaker 2: change the rules, because I think all of us can

1760
01:27:18,040 --> 01:27:21,000
Speaker 2: agree that the current system is not working for us. Unfortunately,

1761
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:23,479
Speaker 2: though as I already said, this is less likely to happen.

1762
01:27:23,560 --> 01:27:25,920
Speaker 2: Biden's an institutionalist. He almost certainly is going to stick

1763
01:27:25,960 --> 01:27:27,760
Speaker 2: to the Commission because he likes so much control they're

1764
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:28,559
Speaker 2: willing to give him.

1765
01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:30,400
Speaker 3: But this is an opportunity.

1766
01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:33,280
Speaker 2: Nonetheless, if Trump pulls out, who knows what's going to

1767
01:27:33,320 --> 01:27:36,120
Speaker 2: happen next time around. And when it does, people like

1768
01:27:36,240 --> 01:27:38,360
Speaker 2: us and all of us will be waiting. And I

1769
01:27:38,360 --> 01:27:39,760
Speaker 2: think that's the fun part around this. I mean, the

1770
01:27:39,800 --> 01:27:42,240
Speaker 2: Commission on Presidential Debates is just complete bs.

1771
01:27:42,720 --> 01:27:45,680
Speaker 1: And if you want to hear my reaction to Sager's monologue,

1772
01:27:45,720 --> 01:27:51,560
Speaker 1: become a premium subscriber today at breakingpoints dot Com.

1773
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:53,040
Speaker 3: Joining us now is Ben Smith.

1774
01:27:53,040 --> 01:27:55,400
Speaker 2: He's the editor in chief of Semaphore and he's also

1775
01:27:55,439 --> 01:27:57,040
Speaker 2: the author of a great new book, Let's go and

1776
01:27:57,120 --> 01:28:01,120
Speaker 2: put it up there on the screen traffic, genius, rivalry

1777
01:28:01,120 --> 01:28:04,280
Speaker 2: and delusion in the billion dollar race to go viral

1778
01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:09,280
Speaker 2: Ben Very apt timing with this new book, given the

1779
01:28:09,280 --> 01:28:11,800
Speaker 2: current end of BuzzFeed News, of which you were once

1780
01:28:12,040 --> 01:28:14,880
Speaker 2: at the helm of the news that we might see

1781
01:28:14,880 --> 01:28:17,880
Speaker 2: a bankruptcy soon from Vice. Many of the titans of

1782
01:28:17,920 --> 01:28:21,720
Speaker 2: the twenty tens media era appear to be on their

1783
01:28:21,720 --> 01:28:24,479
Speaker 2: way out. It's something that you were literally involved in,

1784
01:28:24,520 --> 01:28:27,519
Speaker 2: and now you're writing about it in retrospect. First of all,

1785
01:28:27,600 --> 01:28:29,880
Speaker 2: why do you decide to write the book as kind

1786
01:28:29,880 --> 01:28:32,280
Speaker 2: of a look back on something as you start something new?

1787
01:28:32,600 --> 01:28:34,280
Speaker 2: And how does it relate to everything is going on

1788
01:28:34,400 --> 01:28:34,720
Speaker 2: right now?

1789
01:28:35,880 --> 01:28:38,720
Speaker 8: Yeah, and thank thanks for having me on and congratulations

1790
01:28:38,760 --> 01:28:39,280
Speaker 8: on the show.

1791
01:28:39,640 --> 01:28:39,920
Speaker 3: Thank yous.

1792
01:28:41,479 --> 01:28:44,360
Speaker 8: The you know I was when I was in After

1793
01:28:44,400 --> 01:28:46,720
Speaker 8: I left BuzzFeed in twenty nineteen, I went to The

1794
01:28:46,720 --> 01:28:49,639
Speaker 8: Times and was the media columnist for a couple of years,

1795
01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:53,639
Speaker 8: and I guess found myself feeling like it was, as

1796
01:28:53,640 --> 01:28:56,760
Speaker 8: you say, kind of the end of an era, but

1797
01:28:56,840 --> 01:29:00,240
Speaker 8: also then wondering kind of okay, what was that did

1798
01:29:00,240 --> 01:29:01,240
Speaker 8: we all just live through?

1799
01:29:01,640 --> 01:29:03,880
Speaker 5: You know, where where did it begin? And why?

1800
01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:06,519
Speaker 8: And I had, I think been on the margins of

1801
01:29:06,560 --> 01:29:08,360
Speaker 8: it as a young reporter in New York in the

1802
01:29:08,400 --> 01:29:10,240
Speaker 8: early aughts and kind of knew that there were these

1803
01:29:10,280 --> 01:29:13,280
Speaker 8: new things, these new blogs sites called Hoffington Posts, but

1804
01:29:13,320 --> 01:29:16,280
Speaker 8: I was off blogging about politics and New York politics

1805
01:29:16,320 --> 01:29:18,400
Speaker 8: sort of a different thing, and really stepped into the

1806
01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:21,200
Speaker 8: middle of it really twenty twelve when I joined BuzzFeed

1807
01:29:21,520 --> 01:29:24,400
Speaker 8: and heard all these stories about like the weird origins,

1808
01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:28,200
Speaker 8: and was fascinated by that and just thought, I don't know,

1809
01:29:28,240 --> 01:29:29,840
Speaker 8: partly because we all had a little bit extra time

1810
01:29:29,840 --> 01:29:33,160
Speaker 8: on our hands during the pandemic, that it would, yeah,

1811
01:29:33,200 --> 01:29:34,880
Speaker 8: that it would be interesting to go back and just

1812
01:29:34,880 --> 01:29:37,760
Speaker 8: try to understand where this all started and who where,

1813
01:29:37,960 --> 01:29:40,200
Speaker 8: you know, how we got to where we'd gotten to

1814
01:29:40,200 --> 01:29:40,840
Speaker 8: where we are now.

1815
01:29:41,120 --> 01:29:42,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, And what do you think are some of the

1816
01:29:42,760 --> 01:29:46,720
Speaker 1: qualities that defined the ascendant business models and kind of

1817
01:29:46,760 --> 01:29:50,000
Speaker 1: insos of these you know, what were truly media superstars

1818
01:29:50,040 --> 01:29:53,200
Speaker 1: at the time, BuzzFeed News, Vice News in particular, they

1819
01:29:53,280 --> 01:29:56,280
Speaker 1: had huge valuations. People were throwing money at them. This

1820
01:29:56,439 --> 01:29:58,320
Speaker 1: was thought, you know, this was the new big thing.

1821
01:29:58,920 --> 01:30:00,880
Speaker 1: What do you think were some of the com menalities there?

1822
01:30:01,600 --> 01:30:03,320
Speaker 8: Well, I think you sort of, you know, have to

1823
01:30:03,320 --> 01:30:05,479
Speaker 8: put your head back in what feels like this very

1824
01:30:05,520 --> 01:30:09,400
Speaker 8: far away moment of the early two thousands where you know,

1825
01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:13,519
Speaker 8: the mainstream media, the Conde Nasts and New York Times

1826
01:30:13,600 --> 01:30:15,519
Speaker 8: is in television networks really weren't on the Internet in

1827
01:30:15,520 --> 01:30:18,720
Speaker 8: any meaningful way, and if you were, like most of

1828
01:30:18,800 --> 01:30:21,160
Speaker 8: us on the internet, they weren't, you know, they felt

1829
01:30:21,200 --> 01:30:24,639
Speaker 8: totally disconnected, and they had actually also blown the biggest

1830
01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:27,800
Speaker 8: story of our careers, the Iraq War, in large part,

1831
01:30:27,840 --> 01:30:30,120
Speaker 8: and so there was a sense that I think people

1832
01:30:30,200 --> 01:30:33,679
Speaker 8: forget that they were, that people were ready for something

1833
01:30:33,720 --> 01:30:36,960
Speaker 8: really new and were suspicious of these institutions that was

1834
01:30:37,000 --> 01:30:40,919
Speaker 8: deserved and so the you know, yeah, these these places,

1835
01:30:40,920 --> 01:30:43,600
Speaker 8: in differing ways, were sort of waging an assault on

1836
01:30:43,640 --> 01:30:47,920
Speaker 8: the establishment and using these new tools to tell different

1837
01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:50,880
Speaker 8: stories different ways, sometimes very explicitly. I think Gawker really

1838
01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:52,720
Speaker 8: was like, We're going to rip the masks off these

1839
01:30:52,760 --> 01:30:54,920
Speaker 8: hypocrits and show them what they really are. That was

1840
01:30:54,920 --> 01:30:58,320
Speaker 8: sort of its mission, and at times in really delightful ways,

1841
01:30:58,360 --> 01:31:01,719
Speaker 8: like this site Jezebel, which actually it was women's blog

1842
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:04,400
Speaker 8: that they launched in seven and immediately did that and

1843
01:31:04,479 --> 01:31:06,400
Speaker 8: just these very kind of literal senses. They put out

1844
01:31:06,400 --> 01:31:10,439
Speaker 8: a bounty, a ten thousand dollars bounty for unretouched photographs.

1845
01:31:10,080 --> 01:31:12,240
Speaker 5: For one of these magazines, which at the time was

1846
01:31:12,280 --> 01:31:13,519
Speaker 5: like a really revelatory thing to do.

1847
01:31:13,560 --> 01:31:16,479
Speaker 8: And somebody in fact did like steal or take a

1848
01:31:16,479 --> 01:31:19,479
Speaker 8: photo of Faith Hill, the country singer that had where

1849
01:31:19,479 --> 01:31:21,960
Speaker 8: she still had her smile lines at her freckles, and

1850
01:31:22,040 --> 01:31:24,320
Speaker 8: brought it to them and they triumphantly posted it. But

1851
01:31:24,360 --> 01:31:27,400
Speaker 8: it really did, you know, put pressure in these magazines

1852
01:31:27,439 --> 01:31:29,320
Speaker 8: to represent women more like they were like, which is

1853
01:31:29,360 --> 01:31:32,400
Speaker 8: sort of a small metaphor for what they at their

1854
01:31:32,439 --> 01:31:33,840
Speaker 8: best I suppose we're trying to do.

1855
01:31:34,360 --> 01:31:36,280
Speaker 2: I read the Yeah, the New York Times piece that

1856
01:31:36,320 --> 01:31:39,080
Speaker 2: you published around Jezebel, and I thought it captured everything

1857
01:31:39,160 --> 01:31:42,519
Speaker 2: both about the blogging era but also about audience capture.

1858
01:31:42,560 --> 01:31:44,000
Speaker 2: That's something you and I had talked a little bit

1859
01:31:44,040 --> 01:31:47,760
Speaker 2: about before, Ben, just about how some of the very

1860
01:31:47,760 --> 01:31:50,679
Speaker 2: early signs of what was to come were all present

1861
01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:53,080
Speaker 2: within that. One of the things that I think were

1862
01:31:53,160 --> 01:31:55,680
Speaker 2: a lot of people got excited, both investors and I

1863
01:31:55,680 --> 01:31:57,880
Speaker 2: think people working in it was feeling that they were

1864
01:31:57,920 --> 01:32:00,320
Speaker 2: on the forefront of something new at the time.

1865
01:32:00,560 --> 01:32:02,599
Speaker 3: So in retrospect, how new.

1866
01:32:02,800 --> 01:32:05,240
Speaker 2: Was doing news on the Internet, and what are some

1867
01:32:05,280 --> 01:32:07,080
Speaker 2: of the lessons for you know, people like us, people

1868
01:32:07,120 --> 01:32:10,120
Speaker 2: like yourself that are still trying to actually build something new.

1869
01:32:11,360 --> 01:32:16,200
Speaker 8: So I do think digital media represented a big cultural shift.

1870
01:32:16,320 --> 01:32:18,080
Speaker 8: I mean I think that, you know, it's sort of

1871
01:32:18,120 --> 01:32:21,320
Speaker 8: for historians of the future to look back, but the

1872
01:32:21,400 --> 01:32:23,759
Speaker 8: extent to which you know, if you wanted to distribute

1873
01:32:23,760 --> 01:32:26,400
Speaker 8: information widely, you needed to control a printing press or

1874
01:32:26,439 --> 01:32:29,439
Speaker 8: a television tower or then a capable channel. I mean

1875
01:32:29,520 --> 01:32:31,679
Speaker 8: that was real, like that is how the world was organized,

1876
01:32:31,680 --> 01:32:35,599
Speaker 8: and that suddenly the gatekeepers couldn't really hold the gates,

1877
01:32:35,640 --> 01:32:37,599
Speaker 8: you know, for better and for worse. And I think

1878
01:32:37,800 --> 01:32:41,599
Speaker 8: that's all still being sorted out. Really did change society

1879
01:32:41,640 --> 01:32:44,760
Speaker 8: and politics and the media, and you know, and there

1880
01:32:44,760 --> 01:32:49,200
Speaker 8: were these huge opportunities, and you know, I think initially

1881
01:32:49,240 --> 01:32:50,840
Speaker 8: one of the things that's again so interesting to go

1882
01:32:50,920 --> 01:32:53,320
Speaker 8: back was that it was assumed that this was fundamentally

1883
01:32:53,360 --> 01:32:56,880
Speaker 8: kind of a progressive space. Facebook in particular was where

1884
01:32:56,920 --> 01:32:59,040
Speaker 8: college kids hung out, so obviously that was a place

1885
01:32:59,120 --> 01:33:01,720
Speaker 8: that would support Barrock Obama, and that these were all

1886
01:33:01,800 --> 01:33:04,719
Speaker 8: tools that would in some sense culminate in Barack Obama's

1887
01:33:04,720 --> 01:33:07,920
Speaker 8: election in two thousand and eight. And I think one

1888
01:33:07,960 --> 01:33:10,519
Speaker 8: of the big surprises for me in reporting it was

1889
01:33:10,560 --> 01:33:14,200
Speaker 8: how close your people, Saeger, the kind of populist right

1890
01:33:14,200 --> 01:33:17,639
Speaker 8: wingers were all along to that. You know, the guy

1891
01:33:17,640 --> 01:33:19,559
Speaker 8: who founded four Chan, which I'm not sure you want

1892
01:33:19,560 --> 01:33:22,559
Speaker 8: ownership of, but was working out of us for his offices.

1893
01:33:22,560 --> 01:33:26,840
Speaker 8: And Andrew Breichbart was a co founder of Huffington Post. Yeah,

1894
01:33:27,240 --> 01:33:29,680
Speaker 8: and Steve Bannon was hanging around there as well, and

1895
01:33:30,920 --> 01:33:35,000
Speaker 8: you sort of and I think in some ways it

1896
01:33:35,080 --> 01:33:39,600
Speaker 8: was best suited for a kind of anti establishment, unconstrained

1897
01:33:39,800 --> 01:33:42,479
Speaker 8: right wing politics that grew up in the twenty tens

1898
01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:45,599
Speaker 8: and used these tools to their fullest extent. In some sense,

1899
01:33:45,600 --> 01:33:48,280
Speaker 8: the election of Donald Trump is then the real culmination

1900
01:33:48,400 --> 01:33:48,880
Speaker 8: of all of it.

1901
01:33:49,360 --> 01:33:50,280
Speaker 3: No, I think that's true.

1902
01:33:50,400 --> 01:33:53,080
Speaker 1: So what do you see us bringing about the end

1903
01:33:53,200 --> 01:33:56,559
Speaker 1: of that era? And what media era do you think

1904
01:33:56,600 --> 01:33:58,880
Speaker 1: that we are living in or entering now?

1905
01:33:59,680 --> 01:34:00,000
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1906
01:34:00,040 --> 01:34:03,000
Speaker 8: I mean I wish I knew with total clarity, but

1907
01:34:03,320 --> 01:34:05,519
Speaker 8: I you know, I think ultimately it's always going to

1908
01:34:05,520 --> 01:34:07,520
Speaker 8: be I mean, these aren't machines.

1909
01:34:07,560 --> 01:34:09,320
Speaker 5: It's ultimately the consumers.

1910
01:34:09,360 --> 01:34:12,040
Speaker 8: People get sick of it, and I think the same

1911
01:34:12,040 --> 01:34:14,719
Speaker 8: way people were sick of the old media twenty and four.

1912
01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:18,080
Speaker 8: By twenty sixteen twenty seventeen, the notion that wow, you

1913
01:34:18,120 --> 01:34:20,120
Speaker 8: can just go on Facebook and like hear from everyone

1914
01:34:20,439 --> 01:34:24,040
Speaker 8: and you can get cat pictures and thoughtful articles and

1915
01:34:24,560 --> 01:34:27,960
Speaker 8: insane politics like all in one place no longer felt

1916
01:34:27,960 --> 01:34:31,400
Speaker 8: so fun and interesting and people, I think, I mean,

1917
01:34:31,439 --> 01:34:34,080
Speaker 8: I feel very disoriented looking at social media now, and

1918
01:34:34,320 --> 01:34:37,120
Speaker 8: it's not a great experience for telling you, like, hey,

1919
01:34:37,120 --> 01:34:39,200
Speaker 8: what is happening in the world actually, And so I

1920
01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:41,280
Speaker 8: think there has been this swing of the pendulum in

1921
01:34:41,360 --> 01:34:46,200
Speaker 8: reaction essentially toward you know, in particular kind of trusted institution,

1922
01:34:46,320 --> 01:34:49,200
Speaker 8: individual voices. I think it's people are, for whatever reason,

1923
01:34:49,520 --> 01:34:52,600
Speaker 8: across different areas a little less connected to brands and

1924
01:34:52,640 --> 01:34:55,880
Speaker 8: more to people. But I think that's, you know why

1925
01:34:55,960 --> 01:34:58,000
Speaker 8: the kind of stuff you guys do is very successful,

1926
01:34:58,120 --> 01:35:00,640
Speaker 8: one of the one of the many reasons co but

1927
01:35:01,960 --> 01:35:05,680
Speaker 8: looking for people who can help synthesize this flood of

1928
01:35:05,720 --> 01:35:09,120
Speaker 8: information and organize it and not just and I think

1929
01:35:09,160 --> 01:35:11,679
Speaker 8: you know, it's it's and and of course like that's

1930
01:35:11,720 --> 01:35:15,120
Speaker 8: our bad at Semaphore that that you know that people

1931
01:35:15,160 --> 01:35:18,120
Speaker 8: are looking for kind of human transparency and the journalism.

1932
01:35:18,200 --> 01:35:20,920
Speaker 8: For me to say here's what I found, here's my opinion.

1933
01:35:20,960 --> 01:35:23,280
Speaker 8: But you know, there's room for someone reasonable to disagree

1934
01:35:23,320 --> 01:35:26,760
Speaker 8: with me and then also to do the service of

1935
01:35:27,240 --> 01:35:29,479
Speaker 8: trying to bring in voices from all over I mean,

1936
01:35:29,520 --> 01:35:32,280
Speaker 8: and not just feed you our own perspective.

1937
01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:34,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think it's very important for people

1938
01:35:34,520 --> 01:35:36,840
Speaker 2: to understand, which is that a certain point, like there's

1939
01:35:36,840 --> 01:35:40,000
Speaker 2: so much information out there that help making helping people

1940
01:35:40,080 --> 01:35:43,000
Speaker 2: make sense of all of it is actually you know,

1941
01:35:43,080 --> 01:35:45,240
Speaker 2: where a lot of the news business has gone. But

1942
01:35:45,360 --> 01:35:47,559
Speaker 2: something you always have emphasized and that we always keep

1943
01:35:47,560 --> 01:35:49,200
Speaker 2: in the back of our minds too, is, at the

1944
01:35:49,280 --> 01:35:51,839
Speaker 2: end the same time, though nothing does beat new information,

1945
01:35:51,960 --> 01:35:53,400
Speaker 2: nothing does beat scoop.

1946
01:35:53,520 --> 01:35:56,040
Speaker 3: So whenever you look at this fusion of like new and.

1947
01:35:56,040 --> 01:35:59,000
Speaker 2: Old journalism, what do you think like a happy medium

1948
01:35:59,040 --> 01:36:01,439
Speaker 2: looks like for the future media companies like yours, like

1949
01:36:01,479 --> 01:36:03,200
Speaker 2: ours and all the others wants to come.

1950
01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:05,120
Speaker 8: I mean, I think we're headed into a much more

1951
01:36:05,160 --> 01:36:08,080
Speaker 8: splintered universe where the thing is, like the crazy thing

1952
01:36:08,120 --> 01:36:10,519
Speaker 8: about the Facebook and Twitter era was there were just

1953
01:36:10,600 --> 01:36:13,519
Speaker 8: these two giant platforms that totally dominated the news business

1954
01:36:13,520 --> 01:36:16,479
Speaker 8: and everyone, every journalist in some sense or most of

1955
01:36:16,479 --> 01:36:19,000
Speaker 8: them were thinking about them, and not only people were

1956
01:36:19,000 --> 01:36:21,840
Speaker 8: also thinking about like, you know, making broadcast television shows.

1957
01:36:21,840 --> 01:36:24,880
Speaker 8: But those two platforms dominated. I don't think we're I

1958
01:36:24,880 --> 01:36:26,720
Speaker 8: don't think I really see that even now. I don't

1959
01:36:26,720 --> 01:36:28,960
Speaker 8: think those two platforms are as dominant anywhere near as

1960
01:36:29,000 --> 01:36:32,800
Speaker 8: they were. And so you're looking at a much more splintered,

1961
01:36:32,800 --> 01:36:36,400
Speaker 8: diverse landscape without sort of this is the single trick

1962
01:36:36,479 --> 01:36:38,000
Speaker 8: that will you know, succeed.

1963
01:36:38,479 --> 01:36:40,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, And what do you see as the sort of

1964
01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:44,760
Speaker 1: current state of Twitter in particular, which for so long

1965
01:36:44,840 --> 01:36:47,400
Speaker 1: has been such a you know, shaper of elite discourse

1966
01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:50,400
Speaker 1: in particular, and was at times, and we really leaned

1967
01:36:50,600 --> 01:36:53,280
Speaker 1: heavily and still do on Twitter to surface stories for

1968
01:36:53,360 --> 01:36:56,000
Speaker 1: our show. But I'm finding personally I rely on it

1969
01:36:56,080 --> 01:36:58,000
Speaker 1: less and less. It's just, you know, it's not like

1970
01:36:58,040 --> 01:37:01,120
Speaker 1: an ideological anti eline thing. I just find it less

1971
01:37:01,200 --> 01:37:04,240
Speaker 1: useful these days. Do you think that that is the case.

1972
01:37:04,360 --> 01:37:07,040
Speaker 1: Do you think that Twitter and other social media platforms

1973
01:37:07,040 --> 01:37:09,800
Speaker 1: are actually going to become less important in terms of

1974
01:37:09,840 --> 01:37:11,040
Speaker 1: the news media business.

1975
01:37:11,560 --> 01:37:13,920
Speaker 8: And they've obviously have become less important, And that's right,

1976
01:37:13,920 --> 01:37:16,320
Speaker 8: partly because it used to just do this very useful

1977
01:37:16,360 --> 01:37:18,040
Speaker 8: thing of when you wanted to know what was happening,

1978
01:37:18,080 --> 01:37:19,800
Speaker 8: you could look at Twitter and it would tell you

1979
01:37:19,960 --> 01:37:22,080
Speaker 8: here's what is happening in the world, right, And now

1980
01:37:22,080 --> 01:37:23,360
Speaker 8: you look at Twitter and you just know what is

1981
01:37:23,360 --> 01:37:25,599
Speaker 8: happening on Twitter, which I find riveting as a long

1982
01:37:25,640 --> 01:37:27,439
Speaker 8: time Twitter user, and it's fun and weird.

1983
01:37:27,880 --> 01:37:29,840
Speaker 5: But you know, but I have to go somewhere else

1984
01:37:29,840 --> 01:37:30,920
Speaker 5: if I want to know what the news is.

1985
01:37:32,240 --> 01:37:34,720
Speaker 8: And so I think, you know, I think Elon has

1986
01:37:34,720 --> 01:37:38,240
Speaker 8: made mistakes and has kind of has sent like an

1987
01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:41,200
Speaker 8: ideology about how the news media works that isn't really

1988
01:37:41,240 --> 01:37:45,519
Speaker 8: connected to reality, but also that it was probably doomed

1989
01:37:45,640 --> 01:37:48,760
Speaker 8: like that. These social platforms are fundamentally these social institutions

1990
01:37:48,760 --> 01:37:51,120
Speaker 8: that get cool and then that people get sick of

1991
01:37:51,200 --> 01:37:52,960
Speaker 8: and you're mostly there because your friends are there, and

1992
01:37:52,960 --> 01:37:54,599
Speaker 8: then they leave and you leave. And doesn't mean these

1993
01:37:54,800 --> 01:37:57,639
Speaker 8: doesn't mean that Twitter and Facebook won't exist in ten years, right.

1994
01:37:57,640 --> 01:37:59,240
Speaker 8: I mean, I think Reddit is a great example of

1995
01:37:59,280 --> 01:38:01,760
Speaker 8: a social platform that you know, is great and is

1996
01:38:01,760 --> 01:38:04,400
Speaker 8: incredibly powerful and fun and interesting and I go on

1997
01:38:04,600 --> 01:38:07,880
Speaker 8: many days of the week, but isn't culturally central, isn't

1998
01:38:07,920 --> 01:38:09,280
Speaker 8: central to news and politics.

1999
01:38:09,520 --> 01:38:12,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's all really smart I encourage everybody

2000
01:38:12,040 --> 01:38:13,320
Speaker 2: to go buy the book. We all the linked down

2001
01:38:13,360 --> 01:38:15,920
Speaker 2: in the description of this video. Ben really appreciate you joining.

2002
01:38:15,800 --> 01:38:17,400
Speaker 1: Us, sir. Thanks for your time. Ben, good to see you.

2003
01:38:17,800 --> 01:38:18,720
Speaker 5: Thank you for having me.

2004
01:38:18,760 --> 01:38:22,160
Speaker 2: Guys, absolutely all right, guys, thank you so much for watching.

2005
01:38:22,200 --> 01:38:24,720
Speaker 2: We really appreciate it. Thank you as always to all

2006
01:38:24,760 --> 01:38:29,280
Speaker 2: the monthly, yearly lifetime memory signing up. We love you all,

2007
01:38:29,439 --> 01:38:31,960
Speaker 2: every single person. You're all equal in the eyes of

2008
01:38:32,439 --> 01:38:35,559
Speaker 2: Breaking Points and the community, just because you are all

2009
01:38:35,640 --> 01:38:38,320
Speaker 2: contributing and helping us scale up. So much of the

2010
01:38:38,360 --> 01:38:40,639
Speaker 2: discussion that we all just talked about is a big

2011
01:38:40,680 --> 01:38:44,160
Speaker 2: reminder to me and on vindication honestly of our strategy.

2012
01:38:44,200 --> 01:38:46,599
Speaker 2: You know, we have not taken on one scrap of

2013
01:38:46,880 --> 01:38:52,560
Speaker 2: business debt here. Everything is financed through a cash flow process, exclusively,

2014
01:38:52,640 --> 01:38:56,120
Speaker 2: almost entirely by our premium subscribers. A lot of the

2015
01:38:56,160 --> 01:38:58,479
Speaker 2: buzzfeeds and all these people they raised billions of dollars.

2016
01:38:58,520 --> 01:39:00,880
Speaker 3: They had bosses who were not their own body.

2017
01:39:01,080 --> 01:39:03,240
Speaker 2: I don't know if anybody's taking notice of what's going

2018
01:39:03,280 --> 01:39:05,280
Speaker 2: on right now over at barstool.

2019
01:39:04,960 --> 01:39:07,400
Speaker 1: Where I saw something. What is going on?

2020
01:39:07,439 --> 01:39:09,120
Speaker 3: All right, let's spend some time, maybe we'll clip this out.

2021
01:39:09,160 --> 01:39:11,240
Speaker 2: Let's let's clip this out seper segment on this because

2022
01:39:11,240 --> 01:39:13,880
Speaker 2: this is actually a very vindicating I think for a

2023
01:39:13,920 --> 01:39:16,320
Speaker 2: lot of my theories and our theories around how to

2024
01:39:16,400 --> 01:39:19,120
Speaker 2: run him at the company. So Barstool had this guy

2025
01:39:19,160 --> 01:39:21,200
Speaker 2: who worked for them, and he was on the air

2026
01:39:21,520 --> 01:39:24,200
Speaker 2: and he was singing along to a rap song because

2027
01:39:24,200 --> 01:39:27,960
Speaker 2: he had the lyrics. He had the lyrics that were

2028
01:39:28,000 --> 01:39:29,880
Speaker 2: in front of him. One of the words that he

2029
01:39:30,000 --> 01:39:32,479
Speaker 2: rapped on the air was the N word. Okay, so

2030
01:39:32,520 --> 01:39:34,880
Speaker 2: he did that. He turned wide as a sheet. He

2031
01:39:34,920 --> 01:39:37,679
Speaker 2: clearly was deeply apologetic about it. He said, I shouldn't

2032
01:39:37,680 --> 01:39:41,960
Speaker 2: have done He's been very apologetic. Barstool then is owned

2033
01:39:42,200 --> 01:39:45,280
Speaker 2: or currently is owned by a larger company called pen

2034
01:39:45,400 --> 01:39:46,839
Speaker 2: Gaming and the gambling institution.

2035
01:39:47,560 --> 01:39:49,320
Speaker 3: Barstool did not want to fire him. They want to

2036
01:39:49,320 --> 01:39:50,200
Speaker 3: discipline him whatever.

2037
01:39:50,479 --> 01:39:53,479
Speaker 2: Pen Gaming, the top company came in over the top

2038
01:39:53,560 --> 01:39:57,320
Speaker 2: and overruled both the CEO of Barstool and Dave Portnoy

2039
01:39:57,520 --> 01:39:59,080
Speaker 2: and said, no, we're going to fire this guy.

2040
01:39:59,080 --> 01:40:01,439
Speaker 3: He's literally getting and as part of the talent.

2041
01:40:01,720 --> 01:40:03,880
Speaker 2: Now, whether you agree on whether you should be fired

2042
01:40:03,920 --> 01:40:05,960
Speaker 2: or I personally don't think you should be fired, Whether

2043
01:40:06,040 --> 01:40:08,000
Speaker 2: you agree or not. The fact is is that the

2044
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:10,120
Speaker 2: people who run the company didn't want to fire him,

2045
01:40:10,160 --> 01:40:12,719
Speaker 2: but because they sold the company, they don't have control

2046
01:40:12,840 --> 01:40:16,880
Speaker 2: over their own employees. And now there's this whole split

2047
01:40:17,040 --> 01:40:20,040
Speaker 2: in the barstool community. And it's very messy because you

2048
01:40:20,120 --> 01:40:23,320
Speaker 2: have Dave Portnoy openly saying I did not want to

2049
01:40:23,320 --> 01:40:26,719
Speaker 2: fire one of my own employees, and at the same time,

2050
01:40:26,960 --> 01:40:29,559
Speaker 2: you have people who work at Barstool who are like,

2051
01:40:29,640 --> 01:40:32,519
Speaker 2: I don't agree with this from my bosses. You have

2052
01:40:32,720 --> 01:40:35,479
Speaker 2: Barstool fans who are all like part of the cold

2053
01:40:35,600 --> 01:40:37,800
Speaker 2: not in my barstool moment. They're like, I ride or

2054
01:40:37,800 --> 01:40:40,760
Speaker 2: die for Barstool because I don't agree, you know, with

2055
01:40:40,880 --> 01:40:43,600
Speaker 2: so much of the mainstream culture. Now Portnoy is like,

2056
01:40:43,600 --> 01:40:46,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to stop selling the cancel Cancel culture.

2057
01:40:46,240 --> 01:40:46,519
Speaker 3: Sweatch.

2058
01:40:46,600 --> 01:40:50,400
Speaker 2: It's just a messy situation, and it's one of those where, yeah,

2059
01:40:50,439 --> 01:40:51,800
Speaker 2: you know, at the end of the day, and at

2060
01:40:51,880 --> 01:40:54,000
Speaker 2: least he was honest. People were like, you're a sellout.

2061
01:40:54,040 --> 01:40:56,559
Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, I sold it, sold for the cast.

2062
01:40:56,640 --> 01:40:59,400
Speaker 2: But that's a really cautionary tale.

2063
01:40:59,160 --> 01:41:03,200
Speaker 1: Where reminds me of the eight exactly. Yeah, because we

2064
01:41:03,240 --> 01:41:06,479
Speaker 1: talked about this before but as but Nate Silver said,

2065
01:41:06,520 --> 01:41:10,240
Speaker 1: as your client another twenty ten's personality. But Nate Silver

2066
01:41:10,360 --> 01:41:13,759
Speaker 1: out at his own baby five thirty eight. Why because

2067
01:41:13,800 --> 01:41:16,680
Speaker 1: he sold it's created me, that's his thing, like that

2068
01:41:16,720 --> 01:41:19,639
Speaker 1: real brand. Anyway, we will not do that.

2069
01:41:19,760 --> 01:41:22,800
Speaker 2: It's a caution just to show people like listen, you

2070
01:41:22,840 --> 01:41:25,559
Speaker 2: know you it's a deal with the devil in any respect. Sure,

2071
01:41:25,640 --> 01:41:28,880
Speaker 2: you know Portnoy it did certainly well. Many people there

2072
01:41:29,040 --> 01:41:32,000
Speaker 2: also did well. But the core of the brand was

2073
01:41:32,040 --> 01:41:37,880
Speaker 2: about dudes online shit posting, going against the culture. And

2074
01:41:38,040 --> 01:41:41,439
Speaker 2: it's like whenever you sell you know, even to and

2075
01:41:41,479 --> 01:41:43,639
Speaker 2: by the way, the claim is, since we're going.

2076
01:41:43,560 --> 01:41:45,160
Speaker 3: To do a segment on this and this is gonna

2077
01:41:45,160 --> 01:41:45,800
Speaker 3: be posted.

2078
01:41:45,720 --> 01:41:50,680
Speaker 2: The claim is that pen gaming would have faced regulatory

2079
01:41:50,760 --> 01:41:56,839
Speaker 2: pressure by gambling regulators. Come on that what look maybe

2080
01:41:57,080 --> 01:41:58,799
Speaker 2: no personally what bullshit?

2081
01:41:58,960 --> 01:42:01,360
Speaker 3: No, that's deplete bullshit.

2082
01:42:01,560 --> 01:42:06,840
Speaker 2: So you're one subsidiary employee company made a mistake and

2083
01:42:06,960 --> 01:42:10,040
Speaker 2: said something which look, you know, discipline whatever. Okay, but

2084
01:42:10,920 --> 01:42:13,760
Speaker 2: the idea that if he still remains with the employee

2085
01:42:13,760 --> 01:42:16,439
Speaker 2: of the company, that you were going to get lose

2086
01:42:16,479 --> 01:42:19,720
Speaker 2: your regulatory license, not just in one state, but like

2087
01:42:19,800 --> 01:42:21,120
Speaker 2: all states.

2088
01:42:21,439 --> 01:42:23,479
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't believe that for a second.

2089
01:42:23,520 --> 01:42:25,840
Speaker 1: That's that is nonsense. I mean, look, if you want

2090
01:42:25,880 --> 01:42:27,559
Speaker 1: to fire the guy they just fired, it goes. Don't

2091
01:42:27,640 --> 01:42:30,679
Speaker 1: use to what we were saying about Tucker Carlson, number

2092
01:42:30,720 --> 01:42:34,080
Speaker 1: one rated the news host when they're like, you're gonna

2093
01:42:34,080 --> 01:42:37,280
Speaker 1: wear a sweater, right, yeah, he wore the sweater.

2094
01:42:37,360 --> 01:42:37,920
Speaker 3: That's the point.

2095
01:42:38,000 --> 01:42:40,040
Speaker 1: That's it right there, That is it right there.

2096
01:42:40,160 --> 01:42:42,000
Speaker 2: That is why we ask people just so you know,

2097
01:42:42,120 --> 01:42:44,639
Speaker 2: for premium subscriptions because we're not.

2098
01:42:44,600 --> 01:42:45,479
Speaker 3: Going to be in this issue.

2099
01:42:45,520 --> 01:42:46,160
Speaker 1: We will not do that.

2100
01:42:46,360 --> 01:42:48,280
Speaker 3: You know, We're not going to be where.

2101
01:42:48,520 --> 01:42:51,599
Speaker 2: Somebody you will wear the sweater, yeah, or somebody's gonna

2102
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:54,240
Speaker 2: tell us what to wear, or somebody's gonna tell me. Listen,

2103
01:42:54,360 --> 01:42:56,640
Speaker 2: we fire somebody's because they deserve to get fired, not

2104
01:42:56,720 --> 01:42:58,559
Speaker 2: because somebody's going to tell me that they.

2105
01:42:58,680 --> 01:42:59,400
Speaker 3: Need to get fired.

2106
01:42:59,439 --> 01:43:02,639
Speaker 2: And that is where you look at that and they're

2107
01:43:02,680 --> 01:43:04,479
Speaker 2: real perils. So one of the things that we are

2108
01:43:04,479 --> 01:43:07,200
Speaker 2: committed to here is making it so that you are

2109
01:43:07,240 --> 01:43:09,599
Speaker 2: the people who help fund and support all of our

2110
01:43:09,640 --> 01:43:12,040
Speaker 2: work here. And we will if we have to scale slower,

2111
01:43:12,360 --> 01:43:15,640
Speaker 2: so be it, because ain't nothing in the world is worth.

2112
01:43:15,520 --> 01:43:18,480
Speaker 3: Somebody telling you how to run your own affairs.

2113
01:43:18,160 --> 01:43:21,600
Speaker 1: Keep the overhead low, build step by step like we

2114
01:43:21,680 --> 01:43:24,040
Speaker 1: have been, and rely on your support, which you guys

2115
01:43:24,080 --> 01:43:27,559
Speaker 1: have come through in amazing way. Programming Note I will

2116
01:43:27,600 --> 01:43:28,400
Speaker 1: be out next week.

2117
01:43:28,479 --> 01:43:30,519
Speaker 3: Yes that's right. Everybody's say congratulating married this.

2118
01:43:30,479 --> 01:43:33,200
Speaker 1: Weegain, So I'll be out for next week. But Ryan

2119
01:43:33,240 --> 01:43:35,160
Speaker 1: Graham will be in this chair and we'll do a

2120
01:43:35,160 --> 01:43:36,000
Speaker 1: fantastic jobs.

2121
01:43:36,160 --> 01:43:37,600
Speaker 3: We'll hold down the four for all of you, and

2122
01:43:37,640 --> 01:43:38,840
Speaker 3: we will see you all later