1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Alson media. 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 2: Either snow nor rain, nor heat nor darkness can stop 3 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,159 Speaker 2: the Persian Courier Service. Welcome to dick it Out and 4 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 2: here a podcast about PUSSTAL Services, who reasked the question 5 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 2: can the American capitalist class finally stop the American Post Office? 6 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 2: I'm your host, Mia Long and with me to talk 7 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 2: about what is going on with the post Office, what's 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 2: going on with the post office unions, and yeah, how 9 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 2: things are going downhill for the noble people who carry 10 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 2: your mail. Is Tommy Espinoza, who's a union steward for 11 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 2: the National Association of Letter Carriers. Tommy, welcome to the show. 12 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so 13 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 3: much for giving us the mail care dollars, the male 14 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 3: carriers a platform to stand on. 15 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm really I'm really happy to you and I'm 16 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 2: really happy to get to talk to you about this. 17 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 2: So I think the place we should start is with 18 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 2: a bunch of very very weird stuff in how labor 19 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 2: law works. So okay, for like most people in the 20 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:08,839 Speaker 2: United States, you have a fatally protected right to strike 21 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 2: if you have a union. That is not true for 22 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 2: federal employees. That is especially not true for members of 23 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 2: the post Office and that is a real issue because 24 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 2: the government has decided that, like, yeah, I know, all 25 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 2: these people who do vital service are not allowed to 26 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 2: go on strike and it absolutely sucks. Yeah. So I 27 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 2: think this gets into sort of where I want to start, 28 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 2: which is with the sort of history of the National 29 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 2: Association Letters Carriers, a union that is not allowed to strike, 30 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 2: and how sort of weird that is. So Yeah, I 31 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:46,759 Speaker 2: was wondering if you could talk a bit about sort 32 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 2: of the origins of the union and what effect that 33 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 2: has had on how organizing works or it doesn't work. 34 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, the right to strike has been a rather divisive topic. 35 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 3: I'm sure you're familiar with unions and just generally people 36 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 3: on our side of our side of politics to be 37 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 3: infighting a lot. I shouldn't come to a surprise. So 38 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 3: in nineteen sixty nine, just over fifty years ago, the 39 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 3: salary for postal workers was under two dollars an hour. 40 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 3: People were working months straight with no days off, and 41 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 3: those were close to twelve hour days, and so these 42 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 3: postal workers at the time qualified for welfare and decided 43 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy to go on strike despite it being illegal. 44 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 3: This conversation is not new it was illegal then, it's 45 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 3: illegal now. And I do want to be crystal clear here. 46 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 3: I am not advocating for a strike that would also 47 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 3: be against the law, and we don't advocate for anything 48 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 3: that's against the law. What I do want to advocate 49 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 3: for is the right to strike, because being quasi federal, 50 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 3: there's a lot of limitations in what the NLC and 51 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 3: the general postal unions are able to do. In total, 52 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 3: there are nine bargaining agreements and seven unions within the 53 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 3: Post Office, some of which are the manager's unions, so 54 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 3: take that as it is. Yet, on top of not 55 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 3: being able to strike, none of our money that we 56 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 3: collect as uniondes can be used for lobbying purposes, so 57 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 3: they can't support a single candidate or any of the 58 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 3: parties involved. We have a separate fund for that with 59 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 3: the NLC, called the Letter Carrier's Political Fund, to try 60 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 3: and circumvent the restrictions that are put on there. And 61 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 3: as a result of that, it's like we're fighting with 62 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 3: our hands tied behind our back. We are unable to 63 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 3: organize effectively. Our union leadership seems to be afraid of 64 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 3: protests and picketing for fear that it'll be misconstrued or 65 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 3: labeled as a strike, and they're I think generally afraid 66 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 3: of public opinion. 67 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a debilitating set of conditions because you've effectively 68 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 2: taken away sort of the two major tools that you know, 69 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: I mean unions of basically across all political strikes US. Right, 70 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 2: You've taken away the ability to strike. You've taken away 71 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 2: the ability to use your due's money to influence elections. 72 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 2: So this immediately means you've taken away the tool that 73 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 2: sort of militant unions use, which is strikes, and you've 74 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 2: taken away the tools that more conservative unions use, which 75 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 2: is buying attempting to buy politicians. And then also your 76 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 2: leadership is like, we can't strike, I mean, we can't 77 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 2: protest because someone might think it's a strike, the public 78 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 2: might commanditusen. It's like that that doesn't seem I don't 79 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 2: it really seems like it's like it's not only have 80 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 2: you tied both hands behind your back, you've like tied 81 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 2: them behind your back to your legs. You're now rolling 82 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 2: around on the ground. 83 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 3: Right, And to talk about what happens when we pushed 84 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 3: past all of these barriers and just do it Anyways, 85 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 3: you know, in March nineteen seventy, two hundred and ten 86 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 3: thousand postal workers defied law, defied the general leadership of 87 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 3: the time. And it all started in New York where 88 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 3: people clocked in and at nine o'clock they just walked out. Soon, 89 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 3: let's see, it was Cleveland, Chicago, Los Angeles. The nation 90 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 3: joined very shortly after. Once it broke the news that 91 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 3: they were calling for a national strike. Nixon called in 92 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 3: the National Guard to try and deliver mail, and the 93 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 3: National Guard had no idea what they were doing. There's 94 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 3: an amazing video that I'll try and send you afterwards. 95 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 3: It's just the National Guard at our cases where we 96 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 3: sort the mail. An interviewer is asking him, do you 97 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 3: think that you're doing a good job. It's just like, no, 98 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 3: it's just some kid, you know. And don't get me wrong, 99 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 3: I'm just some guy. But you need the training, you 100 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 3: need to know what you're doing. And it's not something 101 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 3: that anyone can pick up in a day, but it's 102 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 3: a job that anyone can do. But yeah, for the 103 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 3: first time, the mail had stopped, and that won us 104 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 3: collective bargaining binding arbitration, which is a process that I 105 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,359 Speaker 3: think most people within unions know what they mean, but 106 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 3: to explain it, arbitration is what happens when our parties 107 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 3: cannot agree on a settlement for a grievance and eventually 108 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 3: we call in a third party, an arbitrator to decide 109 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 3: for us, and those are generally lawyers. On top of 110 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 3: binding arbitration, it gave us a new pay scale and 111 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 3: set in motion. I think over it's got to be 112 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 3: hundreds of raises between the colas and the new pay table. 113 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 3: It used to be twenty one years for you to 114 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 3: reach the top pay scale, which is absolutely ridiculous, and 115 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 3: I think it's eight. Yeah. So the Post Office was 116 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 3: forced to reorganize, and so is the union. This is 117 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 3: where the American Postal Workers Union was born. And from 118 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 3: this strike we were able to settle on the National Agreement. 119 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 3: So there's the National Agreement, which is our binding contract. 120 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 3: There's the JCAM, which is the Joint Contract Administration Manual, 121 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 3: which is what the Post Office and the union use 122 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 3: as the interpretation of the contract. That way we are 123 00:07:55,640 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 3: not arguing and spending time about the contract could mean 124 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 3: we can just focus on whether or not someone broke 125 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 3: our agreement. So after this one would imagine that a 126 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 3: quasi federal institution would honor the contract that was created, 127 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 3: argain in good faith and treat their employees. Isn't that right? 128 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know it's spoken like someone who has never 129 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 2: watched the Federal co action. 130 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:32,719 Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely not. Before we get into issues that we 131 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 3: face today, I do want to say that one of 132 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 3: the main goals of our contract negotiations, or of this 133 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 3: episode really is to create public knowledge of how our 134 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:50,719 Speaker 3: contract is not being adhered to. If there was one 135 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 3: main goal that I'd have in mind, is just to 136 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 3: have the Post Office honor what they signed and agreed 137 00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 3: to do. Yeah. 138 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 2: And this is something that that it's a part of 139 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 2: being in a union that doesn't get talked about very much, 140 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 2: which is that the contract doesn't mean anything unless the 141 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 2: union enforces it. Because the moment the contract happens, the 142 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 2: bosses will attempt to not abide by it. And this 143 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 2: is what a lot of union militancy back in the 144 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 2: sort of heyday of militancy was. I mean, like, you know, 145 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 2: if you look at like how the UAW worked in 146 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 2: like the sixties, right, they'd have a guy with a 147 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 2: whistle standing on the line, and if someone did a 148 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 2: contract violation. He would blow the whistle and everyone would 149 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 2: just sit down and you'd immediately have a strike, right, 150 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 2: and it wor you know, and like that level of miltancy. 151 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 2: You don't need to get like be at that level 152 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 2: to enforce a contract, but you have to actually be 153 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 2: willing to do stuff and to fight management over it. 154 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 2: And if you're not willing to do that, your contract 155 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 2: is effectively meaningless. And that's a real issue with a 156 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 2: lot of unions. 157 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 3: Which just kind of circles back to one of the 158 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 3: big issues that we face is that if we were to 159 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 3: do that, that would be a willing for delay of mail, 160 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 3: and we could be charged for it just for trying 161 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 3: to enforce the contract. 162 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: Yep. 163 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. Which the thing I think is really interesting, just 164 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 2: to circle back to the nineteen seventy strike, is that 165 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 2: so the strike was illegal, right, Nixon brings in the 166 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 2: army and the National Guard to break it, and the 167 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 2: strike still wins. And not only does it, you know, 168 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 2: I mean you could argue whether it achieved total victory, 169 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 2: but not a single person who walked off the line 170 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,559 Speaker 2: got arrested, even though all of them technically committed a crime. 171 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 2: And that's something that like you know, I think, okay, 172 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 2: the enforcements of laws depends on sort of depends on 173 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 2: a set of relative balance of forces and whether people 174 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 2: care about enforcing the law, which is how like for example, 175 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 2: like if you pirate like seven movies and you get 176 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 2: you get three copyright strike, you go to prison. But 177 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 2: you know, like the sam Altman or whatever like AI 178 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 2: company can literally steal everything on the entire Internet and 179 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 2: get money for it, and no one will love to 180 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 2: prosecute him, right, And so so you know, whether or 181 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 2: not something is illegal is to a large extent or 182 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 2: the difference between something being illegal and you going to 183 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 2: prison for it largely has to do with the balance 184 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 2: of forces involved. And that's something that you should keep 185 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 2: in mind when and this is this is the thing, 186 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 2: this is the thing that that cuts the other way 187 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 2: a lot too write like a lot like employers just 188 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 2: do illegal actions literally all the time, and it doesn't 189 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 2: matter because the state doesn't care. 190 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, By and large, labor laws in America are set 191 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:56,959 Speaker 3: up in favor of the businesses of the employers. If 192 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 3: you're familiar with workers comp or any of the systems 193 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 3: involved in the Federal Employees Compensation Act, it's not enforced. 194 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 3: We have cases that are pending arbitration where someone's been 195 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 3: run over by a worker has been run over by 196 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:23,199 Speaker 3: a postal vehicle while they were working. The post Office 197 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 3: effectively takes them off of payroll to increase the damage 198 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 3: done to the individual. Eventually, the Department of Labor says, yes, 199 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 3: we will pay this individual, and the post Office is 200 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 3: liable to pay them. But now they are off the rolls, 201 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 3: which means there's a greater period of time before this 202 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 3: individual gets their money. And there's a certain form that 203 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 3: within the post Office the managers need to fill out. 204 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 3: I believe it's an eighty one thirty or you know. 205 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 3: All these forms have some numbers associated with them that 206 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 3: they just refuse to fill out. And there's no recourse, 207 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 3: there's no cheez path for us to take to make 208 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 3: them hurry or make them get this individual the money 209 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 3: that they're owed. And some people this doesn't ruin their 210 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 3: lives and they've already paid off their house or whatever. 211 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 3: But I imagine for many many working Americans that's that's their 212 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 3: livelihood immediately down the drain. 213 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, unfortunately, we need to go to ads for a 214 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 2: little bit because unfortunately my boss's boss's boss's livelihood depends 215 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 2: on these ads. Buying technically does too, but like Lord knows, 216 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 2: I don't see that money. So ads, we are back, 217 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 2: And yeah, I guess that leads into the next place 218 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 2: you want to go to, which is talking about what 219 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 2: are the specific grievances today that y'all are dealing with 220 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 2: and the union is not dealing with. 221 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 3: Right So, in terms of grievances within the union and 222 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 3: our negotiation, a lot of it does have to do 223 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 3: with the aforementioned workers' compensation. Employees are just simply not 224 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 3: getting paid. I think the biggest problem with the union 225 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 3: and the grievance procedure today is that management has figured 226 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 3: out this really effective strategy. If they don't settle on 227 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 3: the lower levels and it gets pushed up to arbitration, 228 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 3: then we have a massive backlog of cases appending arbitration, 229 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 3: which could be scheduled years out. I think if you 230 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 3: do the math for our current rate of handling these 231 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 3: cases and how many cases we have, it'll take around 232 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 3: fifteen years to get through the. 233 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 2: Long christ not assuming there's no new ones. 234 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's like you know when you go to 235 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 3: a restaurant and there's that little stanchion out there that 236 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 3: says it's a five hour wait from this point. That's 237 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 3: the point that we're at. Anything beyond today, we'll be 238 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 3: further along Jesus Christ. And so I think that is 239 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 3: just a major problem for us. Clearly. Yeah, management is 240 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 3: not complying with any of this, and it makes us 241 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 3: so that our employees have to wait. Something I do 242 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 3: want to talk about that's outside of the grievance procedure 243 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 3: if we can, is just what's going on with the 244 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 3: post Office and the Postmaster General. Yeah, all right, So 245 00:15:57,720 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 3: I want to go at this from the customer perspective first. 246 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 3: I think that's the best way to relate to people. 247 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 3: I think by and large, people are losing faith in 248 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 3: the post Office. Either you have no idea what's going on, 249 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 3: or you don't care. And that's fine, I'd say. Before 250 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 3: I joined, I didn't think of them at all. You know, 251 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 3: they're just the guy that shows up at my house 252 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 3: every morning. A lot of people seem to think that 253 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 3: the post Office is going out of business, and our 254 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 3: customers are facing increasingly long lines, misdelivered or lost mail, 255 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 3: and an increase in postage for a service that is 256 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 3: getting worse. People are paying more for worse service, and 257 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 3: it's easy to point out those issues from the outside 258 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 3: and be rightfully upset at them. I do feel like 259 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 3: we're doing a disservice to our customers, and I'm not 260 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 3: really not trying to attack them when I say that 261 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 3: they're uninformed or clueless to the inner workings of the 262 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 3: Post Office. I do directly want to attack Congress and 263 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 3: say that, yeah, when they posted, they had pushed forward 264 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 3: a bill called the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act in 265 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 3: two thousand and six, which required the Post Office to 266 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 3: prefund one hundred percent of its retiree health benefits and 267 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 3: liabilities seventy five years into the future. What so, overnight, 268 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 3: the Post Office was handed a five point five billion 269 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 3: dollar burden. And that's where the whole I don't know 270 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,119 Speaker 3: if you remember, I certainly wasn't conscious of it at 271 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 3: the time, to save our post office stickers that were 272 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,719 Speaker 3: being sold and trying to fund the post Office, and 273 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 3: really that's where the rhetoric of the Post Office is 274 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 3: going under comes from. The Other thing I want to 275 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 3: point out is that we are quasi federal. We actually 276 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 3: accept nothing from tax payer monies. It says it's a service, 277 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 3: but really the post officees ran as a business. We 278 00:17:55,400 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 3: don't even get subsidized because they don't need to. My 279 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 3: local union president loves to remind us that the post 280 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 3: Office is a business that has a revenue of seventy 281 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 3: eight point two billion dollars, and he'll want me to 282 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 3: stress that the point two is extremely important because point 283 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 3: two of a billion is twenty million. They are not 284 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 3: in jeopardy. We are not going out of business. And 285 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 3: the Postmaster General, Louis de Joy, he's the second highest 286 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 3: paid public servant in America, just underneath the President of 287 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 3: the United States. 288 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 2: He's played Ward and Clarence Thomas. 289 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah, I think it was like three hundred and 290 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 3: eighty thousand a year or something like that. The Joy 291 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 3: was appointed by Donald Trump. I'm assuming this is kind 292 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 3: of a baseless assumption, So forgive me. I'm not doing 293 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 3: my research here, but I'm assuming that they're buddies because 294 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:54,479 Speaker 3: d Joy has no idea. 295 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't she the guy that Trump brought in, 296 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 2: like specifically to destroy the post Office as part of 297 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 2: the campaign to steal the election. 298 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's been a lot about the Joy defrauding 299 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 3: the election process. I wasn't part of the post office 300 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 3: to see the inner workings of it, so it's kind 301 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 3: of hard for me to say if it was hearsay 302 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 3: or not, but I believe it because de Joy has 303 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 3: no idea how to run a post office. He's never 304 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 3: been involved with this kind of business. He is, in 305 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 3: the same way that Trump is a businessman, a horrible businessman, 306 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 3: and his Delivering for America plan could really be redefined 307 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 3: as consolidation efforts for a business. So what they're doing 308 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 3: is they're consolidating infrastructure and the workforce, which means closing 309 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 3: post offices in order to save money and shoving three 310 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 3: installations into one building. That's why the lines are getting longer. 311 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:56,199 Speaker 3: It also means that from dispatch the employees have to 312 00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 3: drive an extra mile or two into their working zone, 313 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 3: which of course means that we're going to go into overtime. 314 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 3: And this just throws a wrench in the mail handling process. 315 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 3: He has single handedly made the service a lot more reliable, 316 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:17,400 Speaker 3: and I do think that you're right. Irreliable, yeah, sorry, 317 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 3: more unreliable, And I do think that you're right. He 318 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 3: wants to destroy the post office, not only for the election, 319 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 3: but to the point where it makes more sense to 320 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 3: go private. Now is the time to point out that 321 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,919 Speaker 3: the Joy is a major shareholder in FedEx, which is 322 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 3: christ which is a subcontractor for the USPS, and he 323 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 3: has millions of dollars in equity involved. He's got skin 324 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 3: in the game. 325 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 2: Love open corruption so great. 326 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 3: And so on the local level, on what's going on 327 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 3: in my office, I actually have one of the better 328 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 3: offices that I've seen are heard about. I have been 329 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 3: sent to other offices, and I have experience firsthand the 330 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 3: bullying and harassment from management pushing us to go faster. 331 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 3: But even at one of the better offices, I work 332 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 3: sixty hour weeks. I don't have set days off. It's 333 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 3: not even a rotation. When I get home, I'm spent. 334 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 3: And my commute isn't that bad. I think I'm about 335 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 3: fifteen minutes each way. And I really can't imagine driving 336 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 3: two hours after an eleven hour shift just to eat 337 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 3: and come back and do it again. 338 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 2: I mean, that's just unsafe. 339 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 3: Like let's say, oh, yeah, it would be illegal, but 340 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 3: since it's in the contract, it's not illegal. Oh my god. 341 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,199 Speaker 3: So the sacrifice that you make when you're joining the 342 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:54,199 Speaker 3: post Office. Well, I guess I should explain. When you 343 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 3: join as a letter carrier, the first ninety days, they 344 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 3: can fire you for any reason, and you're something called 345 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 3: either a CCA or a PTF, and that means part 346 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 3: time flexible or a city carrier assistant. You are only 347 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:14,199 Speaker 3: guaranteed four hours for showing up for work. You're not 348 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 3: guaranteed to be scheduled. So if they don't like you, 349 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 3: they just will schedule schedule you once a week for 350 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 3: an unknown amount of time until you quit. And if 351 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 3: you're in a busy place, then that just means that 352 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 3: they're going to work you to death. So when you 353 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 3: join the workforce, immediately you lose time with your family. 354 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 3: You lose time with your loved ones and your friends. 355 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,880 Speaker 3: And I myself, am so fortunate that all my loved 356 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 3: ones have been beyond understanding. But every time I talk 357 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 3: about it, I get asked the same thing, why don't 358 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 3: you quit? And the truth is this job is awesome. 359 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 3: I love it, I want to work it. I just 360 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 3: want it to make sense and be livable, and I'm 361 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 3: not gonna give up just because we haven't reached the 362 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 3: point where it is. You know, if you walk away. 363 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 3: Now it doesn't get better. I'm sure someone would take 364 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 3: my place, but it helps to have people stick around. 365 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 2: That's actually a pretty commedy. I mean, this is one 366 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 2: of the amazons shredch right for from their warehouses. They 367 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 2: intentionally want to cycle through people because the more the 368 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 2: more new people you have continuously cycling through, the less 369 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,199 Speaker 2: organized and the less sort of like must knowledge, they 370 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 2: have less you have to pay them, et cetera, et cetera, 371 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 2: et cetera. And so if you can just cause high 372 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 2: turn off rates on purpose, that's that's the thing that 373 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,880 Speaker 2: a lot of these sort of business google like Nightmare 374 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 2: factory people love in their workforces and makes everyone else's 375 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 2: life just a living hell. But you know, they're still 376 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 2: getting paid. 377 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 3: Right, And so I try and hold that in mind. 378 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 3: When I've been overworked and I'm at the end of 379 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 3: one of my major shifts because I had to carry 380 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 3: part of another route because someone else called out, I 381 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 3: really have to stop and think to myself that this 382 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 3: other person who called out is just as exhausted as 383 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 3: I am is probably going to get a letter of 384 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 3: warning for calling out. That's another issue. They don't want 385 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 3: you to use your leave Jesus Christ. I'm going to 386 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 3: file an unfair labor practice because they've been doing that 387 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 3: a lot at my office. 388 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 389 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 3: As well. It reminds me a lot are issues of 390 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 3: your recent episode. I think it was you about the 391 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 3: nurses Union, the shift change episode. Their members are dealing 392 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 3: with a lot of the same things, where the unions 393 00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 3: are so big that they become detached from the me membership, 394 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 3: and we are finding out afterwards what our bargaining agreements are, 395 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 3: what our strategy was. Everything's after the contract has been signed, 396 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 3: and that's just not how unions were meant to be. 397 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 3: They're meant to be from the bottom up, by the workers, 398 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 3: for the workers. But it really does feel like it's 399 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 3: like national is its own entity. And so I guess 400 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 3: that would bring us to talking about the union and 401 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 3: the future of the union. 402 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's get into that. 403 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 3: So I got to be careful here because Brian renfro 404 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 3: he's our national leader of the union. He's been struggling 405 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 3: with problems in his personal life. And I don't feel 406 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 3: like I'm outsteeing him as its public knowledge, at least 407 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 3: within the Post Office. It's public knowledge he's dealing with 408 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 3: substance abuse with alcoholism, and that's something that hits very 409 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 3: close to home within my family, and I really don't 410 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 3: want to demonize that he's struggling, But what I do 411 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 3: want to say is when you're going through something like 412 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 3: that and you've accepted a position on the national level 413 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,439 Speaker 3: like this, you really need to either step down or 414 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 3: appoint someone to handle things in your place. As negotiations 415 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,879 Speaker 3: started over a year ago, he kind of went missing 416 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 3: and it was later revealed that he was an inpatient, 417 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 3: which is fine, get your help, but there was nothing left, 418 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 3: no notes left for us to strategize with, and our 419 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,959 Speaker 3: membership is just in the dark. And beyond that, the 420 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 3: leadership has gone missing. It's very dark times for the 421 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 3: NALC well. 422 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 2: And that's also just sort of like an organizational problem, 423 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 2: right If your organization is set up in such a 424 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 2: way that a small number of people being incapacitated means 425 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 2: total paralysis and no one has any idea what's going on, 426 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 2: that's just a bad way to run something, And especially 427 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 2: it's a terrible way to run a union because the 428 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 2: union's you know, power is supposed to be from from 429 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 2: its organization and from the collective power of a large, large, 430 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 2: organized group of people who can make decisions for themselves. 431 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 2: And if it's if that's not happening, and you get 432 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,640 Speaker 2: to the point where these decisions are being made by 433 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 2: a very small number of people who can just sort 434 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 2: of vanish like that's that for whatever. And you know, 435 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 2: literally whatever reason that is right, it could just be 436 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,880 Speaker 2: you get sick. It could just be like whatever happens, 437 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 2: that's just a terrible way to organize things. And I 438 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 2: guess it's also like I want to make take it 439 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 2: like like like a little tiny tangent to be like, 440 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 2: if you're doing any organizing project, your goal is to 441 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 2: organize yourself out of a job, like you're like I ideally, 442 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 2: if you were in an organization, it should be able 443 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 2: to function without you. There should Not having an indispensable 444 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 2: person is a fiasco. Don't do that. This is true 445 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,239 Speaker 2: of both like your tiny local mutual aid group, as 446 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 2: much as is true of your giant national union. So this, 447 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 2: this has been this has been mea talking about the 448 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 2: indispensable person don't have. 449 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, that's kind of the funny thing about joining 450 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 3: a union. From an anarchist perspective, it gets a little 451 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 3: funky how hierarchical they typically are, and the problems that 452 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 3: we know we are going to face when you have 453 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 3: a system that's built like a pyramid. Yeah, oh yeah. 454 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,239 Speaker 3: And so I was saying, we're in dark times, but 455 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 3: there's such a bright future that I can see for us. 456 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 3: Branch nine of the NAOC, and namely this individual Tyler Vasser, 457 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 3: who when I had originally posted on Reddit asking for attention, 458 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 3: he's the one that I thought would be great for 459 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 3: this inner view. His Branch nine has passed a resolution 460 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 3: to form an open bargaining strategy for contract negotiations, and 461 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 3: I hope this sweeps the nation. We're not allowed to strike, 462 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 3: as I've mentioned, and our leadership is so shy when 463 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 3: it comes to activism or mobilization of the workforce. They 464 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 3: don't want to touch the topic. The closest thing we 465 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 3: have to it is a rally that is Enough is 466 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 3: Enough that's being held in Baltimore soon about the violence 467 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 3: that's being done to postal workers. We're being robbed and 468 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 3: we're being harassed. But even then, we're missing a large 469 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 3: chunk of the danger that is posed to postal workers 470 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 3: because yes, we're being robbed on the streets, but we're 471 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 3: also being bullied and harassed inside of our work places 472 00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 3: by management, by the people who are supposed to empower 473 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 3: us to do the job effectively, and so they don't 474 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 3: want to touch the topic of a strike, I think, 475 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 3: for fear of retaliation. But to me, pushing for the 476 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 3: right to strike is a I'm not sure how to 477 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 3: word this. It is such an important part of the 478 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:28,479 Speaker 3: nilc's identity, the postal strike of nineteen seventy that it 479 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 3: seems silly to ignore it today and pretend like it 480 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 3: didn't happen. So for the future, I think that activism 481 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 3: is our key to success. I think that the old 482 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 3: heads that lead our union come from a time where 483 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 3: unions were frowned upon, where activism was frowned upon. But 484 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 3: I think that public opinion will be largely in our favor, 485 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 3: and that public opinion can really put pressure on the 486 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 3: legislative branch on Kongs And if we are transparent about 487 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 3: our union, what we're asking for, the issues that we're facing, 488 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 3: I think that the public would be on our side. 489 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 3: If the people in America knew that management was falsifying 490 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 3: time records or training records and interfering with workers' comps 491 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 3: claim and back pay, or that they're not paying the 492 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 3: settlements that they've agreed to pay, that they're not scheduling 493 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 3: arbitration sessions big or small, that they would care, and 494 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 3: that they would join us in the streets. One major 495 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 3: thing that happened, I think it was last year in 496 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 3: the summer, we had a letter carrier. His name is 497 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 3: Eugene Gates, who died in the Texas heat Jesus because 498 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 3: management told him not to take as many breaks or 499 00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 3: he would face discipline. These pressures that we face when 500 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 3: when you're threatened that you will lose your job if 501 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 3: you don't listen to us, you will push yourself to 502 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 3: the point of exhaustion. And further, Yeah, I think that 503 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 3: the post office killed mister Gates. And yeah, there wasn't 504 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 3: as much outcry or or anger behind the movement. I 505 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 3: often find myself thinking that while I don't have the answers, 506 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 3: I do know that we need to care more. Yeah, 507 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 3: and it's hard to care when when you're exhausted. I 508 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 3: acknowledge that. 509 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I think there's two things about that. One. 510 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't and this is something I've gotten 511 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 2: to with a lot of the sort of interviews that 512 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 2: I've done on the show is that I think a 513 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 2: lot of very very basic jobs have labor conditions that 514 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 2: are unimaginably appalling that people just don't know about. And 515 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 2: I think people are very sympathetic too, once they actually 516 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 2: understand what's happening in the kind of just horror show 517 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 2: stuff that's happening in these workplaces. And the second thing 518 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 2: I think that's sort of important in terms of getting 519 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 2: people to you know, like trying trying to actually do 520 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 2: like mass mobilizations even just to get people to understand 521 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 2: what's going on, is that I think a lot of 522 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 2: people who are facing these kinds of conditions think that 523 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,959 Speaker 2: they're alone and think that it's just something that happens 524 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 2: to them, or they've been in them for so long 525 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 2: they think that it's sort of normal. And having a 526 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,959 Speaker 2: bunch of people go no, like A, this happens and 527 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 2: b it shouldn't happen is extraordinarily powerful because you know, 528 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 2: like that that feeling of isolation is is the thing 529 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 2: that all of that you know, you're that your bosses 530 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 2: depend on to make sure that you know you you 531 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 2: just keep going along with these conditions even though they 532 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 2: are just objectively horrific, and I think any strategy that's 533 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 2: not based on that is just not going to go anywhere. 534 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,439 Speaker 3: Right, And one of the strategies that I really want 535 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 3: to push forward as I grow within the union. And 536 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:15,360 Speaker 3: don't get me wrong, I want to stay as steward. 537 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 3: I think that educating our members and being part of 538 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 3: the workforce is my place in the union. But what 539 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 3: I want to push is for union solidarity. I want 540 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 3: the NLC to hire organizers, specifically organizers to try and 541 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 3: get the public mobilized and as well as the workforce, 542 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,759 Speaker 3: so that we can put pressure on Congress, so that 543 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 3: we can show our bargaining teams that we support them, 544 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 3: and so that we can have clearly defined bargaining terms. 545 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 3: And yeah, I think that having solidarity between unions and 546 00:34:55,040 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 3: reaching out to the other movements in a time where 547 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,720 Speaker 3: union support is higher than ever is such a clear 548 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 3: path that we are just ignoring for whatever reason, because 549 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 3: people are afraid to speak out against the Post Office. 550 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,400 Speaker 3: And so I'm really not sure what's going to happen 551 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 3: with our current contract, but I do know that the 552 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 3: fight never ends, and that while we stand on the 553 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 3: shoulders of giants, we have to pay respect to these 554 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,280 Speaker 3: giants by not giving up now. And I'm a relatively 555 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 3: new employee and steward, but I'm really walking in the 556 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 3: footsteps of some warriors. The branch president I mentioned, Ken Lurch, 557 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,439 Speaker 3: has given me so much support and education and has 558 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 3: done so much hard work over the years that I 559 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 3: don't have to reinvent that weel, none of us do. 560 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,320 Speaker 3: We just have to continue the struggle. 561 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's a great place to end. 562 00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:59,400 Speaker 2: Unless you have anything else that you want to make 563 00:35:59,440 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 2: sure we get to. 564 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,720 Speaker 3: No, nothing, nothing on this topic. 565 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, So how can how can people support you and 566 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 2: postal workers just in general? If there's specific place you 567 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 2: want them to go? 568 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 3: In general? There is on the na LC site, which 569 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 3: is just an AOC dot com, there is a section 570 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 3: where you put in your address and it it'll give 571 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 3: you the email addresses, the phone numbers for your representatives 572 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 3: so that you can make some noise. Again, we're amazingly 573 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 3: limited in what we can do, so there's not really 574 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 3: anything that you can donate to to help us, including 575 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,800 Speaker 3: the letter Carrier political fund. But yeah, just pay attention 576 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 3: to us. Maybe leave a bottle of water out in 577 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 3: your front door, says for the postal worker. You know, 578 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 3: there's nothing better that you can do than talking about it. 579 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,439 Speaker 3: Word of mouth is the best advertisement. 580 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, we will, we will. We will put that 581 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 2: in the show notes. I hope you all win, and 582 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 2: I don't. I don't think I've ever said this genuine 583 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:12,840 Speaker 2: ly in my life, but thank you for your service. 584 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 3: I appreciate that. Yeah. I never imagined myself to become 585 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 3: a federal employee, and it is just as bad as 586 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:27,359 Speaker 3: I imagined. Yeah, so I do want to shout out 587 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 3: Actually it's a little meta, I guess, but I do 588 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 3: want to shout out some important episodes of it could 589 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 3: happen here that hit me very closely. If I can. Yeah, yeah, 590 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 3: go for it, because a lot of the people listening 591 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,320 Speaker 3: will be postal workers that have been pointed in this direction. 592 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 3: Please look at the Mayan mar episodes, the Free Burmer, 593 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 3: the Burmese Revolution, and look at the work that me. 594 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 3: I believe you've done the same work as James with 595 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:05,480 Speaker 3: border kindness. Those are two topics that I think y'all 596 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 3: hit really well and that really touched me as a person. 597 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,319 Speaker 3: Sometimes I'll relisten to those episodes when I'm having a 598 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 3: hard day just to remind myself that it's all the same, 599 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 3: it's all the same fight. 600 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, it absolutely is, And I mean I think that's 601 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 2: that's sort of the beauty. I mean, it's both the 602 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 2: beauty and the horror of this world is that on 603 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 2: the one hand, all of us are being crushed by 604 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,520 Speaker 2: the same sets of forces. But on the other hand, 605 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,360 Speaker 2: it means that whatever fight that you're taking is also 606 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,399 Speaker 2: a part of the larger fight forget all of us free. 607 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, So just fight the burnout and stay in 608 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:46,959 Speaker 3: the fight. Yep. 609 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is be nicked up here, go make trouble 610 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 2: for people who suck. 611 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: It could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. 612 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,920 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 613 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 614 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,279 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 615 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,000 Speaker 1: find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at 616 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,280 Speaker 1: Coolzonmedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.