WEBVTT - Mike Schur - Pt. 2 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:04.600 Hi, I'm Glory Adam, host of Well Read Black Girl. 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:09.600 Each week, we journeyed together through the cultural moment where art, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.720 culture and literature collide and pay homage to the women 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:17.800 whose books we grew up reading. It's the literary kickback 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:20.919 you never knew you needed. Listen to a Well Read 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:24.640 Black Girl on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:29.880 or wherever you get your podcasts. Check out the new podcast, 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:32.560 I Am Kobe. Do you want to understand how Kobe 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:36.199 Bryant achieved his unequal determination? How did he come to 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:40.159 his incredible passion to win? In I Am Kobe, we 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:43.519 reveal intimate, never before heard tapes of Kobe when he 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:46.120 was a teenager, just as he was starting to glimpse 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:49.120 his own greatness. It's about the making of an icon. 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:52.879 We weave together these tapes with Kobe's high school coaches, 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:56.120 his friends, and the figures who knew him in his youth. 0:00:56.560 --> 0:00:59.040 All episodes are out now so you can binge the 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:01.880 whole thing. Listen to I Am Kobe on the I 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:09.280 Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, and wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:12.280 I'm Hillary Clinton and I'm so excited to be back 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:15.720 with a third season. Of you and me both. When 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:18.720 I started this podcast, we were going through some tough 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:22.320 times and let's face it, we still are. And here's 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:25.600 what I know. We cannot get through this alone. So 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:29.240 please join me for more conversations with people who will 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:32.280 make you think, make you laugh, and help us find 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:35.640 a path forward. This season, I'll be talking about the 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:39.840 state of our democracy with experts and with people organizing 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:44.639 on the ground. We'll draw inspiration from some amazing people 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:49.560 like Olympic star Alison Felix and Grammy Award winner Brandy Carlisle. 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:53.600 And we'll get into the hard stuff with writer Cheryl 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:57.800 Strait and my dear friend and colleague, Huma Aberdeen. So 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:00.200 join us listen to you and me both on the 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:03.640 I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:21.160 your podcasts. My name is Michael Shore. I was a 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:25.840 writer for the first four point two seasons and a 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:39.000 producer on The Office. Hi, everybody, Welcome to a new day, 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:43.800 And a new day brings a new episode of The 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:48.720 Office Deep Dive with me your host Brian baum Gartner. Now, 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:51.280 I'm thrilled to tell you that today I am bringing 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:55.440 back the incredible Mike Sure for Part two. Of our conversation. 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:58.320 This is going to be a good one to remind you, 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:01.720 Mike was one of our original writers and producers on 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:04.880 the Office. He went on to co create Parks and 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.959 Wreck with Greg Daniels, as well as some other huge 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:13.519 TV shows of our time like Brooklyn nine, The Good Place, 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:16.480 just to name a few. Now, as I mentioned in 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:19.280 the last episode, which you should definitely check out if 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:22.440 you haven't already, Mike as a writer, as a producer, 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:26.520 as an artist, he's had some insane achievements, and we're 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:30.600 gonna get into some of those. But more importantly, you're 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.080 going to get to hear about the one thing that 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:38.760 he always hated that he described as a quote waking nightmare. 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:46.480 That's right, his role as Mos Shrewd. Now, I was, Oh, 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:49.240 you have no idea how happy I was to find 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:52.800 out that my suspicions were correct that Mike had to 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:56.160 play Mos as kind of a cruel joke in the 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:59.480 writer's room, a writer's room joke because they found it 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:02.520 funny to make him do all of the stupid stuff 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:04.800 that he had to do. And boy, he had to 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:08.760 do some really stupid stuff. But I'm glad he did, 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:13.120 and I'm glad he is back joining us today because 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:16.680 Mike is a force in the world of TV, and 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:19.559 more than that, he was a huge and important part 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:23.880 of the Office family. So please join me in welcoming 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:27.400 the man who helped create so many of the iconic 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:36.799 TV personalities we know and love. Mike. Sure, Bubble and Squeak. 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:44.000 I love it Bubble and Squeak, Bubble and Squeaker Cookie 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:58.159 at every month lift over from the natty bore. You 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:01.600 and I. You may forgotten this, but you and I 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:06.360 share an Emmy. We do we do yes for the webisodes. 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:11.160 For the webisodes. Yes, um, did you ever get yours? 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:13.640 I don't think I have an actual trophy for it? Now, 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:21.520 Well I did, I do partly or all because we 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:25.839 were invited to the ceremony and we accepted them and 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:28.440 it came home with me. Great, Yeah, so I have 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:33.719 it it. Look it's great. Actually, it's really rebisodes was 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:36.760 really fun. I have nothing but fund memories of that 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:39.960 little crazy day that we spent around you and Paul 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:43.039 wrote them. And it was longer than a day. It 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:46.960 was three days, three days. It was ten episodes over 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:50.680 three days. That was like before everyone did webisodes all 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:54.560 the time. And these little extra things like that was 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.839 a really fun like side project that we just sort 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:01.760 of threw together. They're really funny too, they are, Yes, 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:04.520 And I think Randall's idea was we were able to 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:08.000 do some things there that we, well, we couldn't necessarily 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:11.440 do without the full camera crew. I think, yes, it was. 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:15.400 The premise was it was like a holiday or something 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:18.000 because we didn't have everyone to be in the background. 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:20.560 So yeah, that was right. It was. We had a 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:23.040 lot of backstory for why it was the way it was, 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:29.480 but um, the accounts significant because, um, I have an 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:33.680 Emmy congratulated, an actual Emmy, but you also want an Emmy. 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:36.960 But we were never paid for it, and it led 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:42.279 to the writers strike. I've watched a video of you 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:45.240 yesterday from when we were on strike. When you were 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:49.000 on strike, Yeah, you guys produced a video and you 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:50.960 said a number of things in the video. Okay, I 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:52.640 don't remember any of them, but I saw it and 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:54.640 I was like, oh my god. And then we were 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:57.120 joking that you guys were coming up with bits as 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:59.960 you were walking the picket line and making the video. 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:05.440 Kind of funny anyway, Um, but you said in part 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:08.240 that you're watching this on the internet, a thing that 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.800 pays us zero dollars. They were put on NBC dot 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:16.080 com and they sold ads and we won a Daytime 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:20.120 Emmy and didn't make any money. The writer strike was 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:22.960 a really big deal. I don't know, just talk to 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:26.480 me about that time and what you remember of Greg 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:29.760 saying no, we're not going to produce material for free. 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:33.880 There It was a very inspiring moment for me personally 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:37.280 because the central issue at the time, this is two 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:39.640 thousand and seven. The central issue at the time was 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:44.320 jurisdiction over the internet because Netflix hadn't started making original 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:46.960 shows yet, but people felt like they were going in 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:50.400 that direction, and NBC and every every network had a 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:54.120 website and they were starting to like stream in primitive fashion, 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:57.440 the stream things on the over the Internet. And suddenly 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:59.120 was like, well, if this is the future. It didn't 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:01.520 take a genius to think like, well, this is the future. Like, 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:04.760 who cares whether you it's a television screen you hang 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:07.200 on your wall or sit on a platform, or whether 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:11.120 it's your computer screen. This is how people are consuming 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:13.240 the work we do and we ought to get paid 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:16.920 for them. So so those episodes were like a big 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:19.520 part of that because I they were shot with the 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:23.320 union labor and no one got paid. So that was 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:25.840 like the you know, it wasn't like because of those 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:28.480 episodes that the writers could want one strike. Those we 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:30.240 episodes were an example of the kind of thing that 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:31.760 we were trying. We were saying like, if this is 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:34.360 the way things are going, we gotta do something about this, right. 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:37.280 So because the companies at the time, we're saying like, 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:39.640 you know, we don't have enough information. Let's just let's 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:42.080 just let's just wait three years from now, we'll have 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.560 more information and then we'll know what the future of 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:46.920 this is. And we were like, no, you're you're trying 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:50.480 to you're basically trying to grandfather in the internet as 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:54.440 like a thing that you don't pay for him. So, um, 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:58.319 we went on strike and it was a huge deal 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:01.760 and it was very scary. It was like unclear what 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:06.160 was going on. The communication wasn't sublime. And Greg was like, well, 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:08.480 we're gonna pick out our own show. And the reason 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:10.200 we're gonna pick out our own show is isn't a 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:13.360 show of solidarity. Isn't a saying like this is the 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:15.680 thing we care about the most in the world. And 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:17.640 we were in that little Chandler Studios out in the 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:19.760 middle of Van Eyes, and it was not on a 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:22.640 major studio lot, and so we all showed up to 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:24.440 work at six in the morning and we pick it 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:26.760 at our own show and we were in the middle 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:29.240 of season four. We were about to shoot the Dinner 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:31.480 Party episode, one of the most famous episodes of the 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:34.480 show of all time, the best read through I think 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:36.880 we ever had. You remember that read through? That read 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:40.800 there was was like it was like a rock concert. 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:43.880 And we had finished that script. That script is ready 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.160 to go, and that script could have been shot. The 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:48.319 actors could have just executed the script, and the directors 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:51.040 were on strike and the crew wasn't on strike. But 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:54.880 Steve Correll said, um, no, I'm not. This is the 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:58.440 way we make this show is collaborative, and there's writers 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:00.360 on the set and there's producers on the and we 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:02.760 change things and we work out new little moments and 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:05.120 pitched new jokes, and I don't think I'm gonna make 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:08.200 the show without the writers. And he didn't show up, 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:11.680 and so they shot a couple of scenes from the 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:14.959 episode that Michael Scott wasn't in, and then there was 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:18.400 nothing else to do. And the show shutdown, and that 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:21.079 was such a heroic thing. He just stayed home and 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:24.640 he got calls from a lot of lawyers and a 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:28.160 lot of studio executives, from really really powerful people saying 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:29.679 you have to do this, and he was like, no, 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:35.040 don't watch me. And Greg called him and he was 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:37.360 home and Greg was like, hey, I know that you've 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:39.120 been had a lot of pressure coming at you. Are 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:40.679 you okay? And he was like, yeah, I'm home, I'm 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:43.400 playing with my kids and was totally unfazed by it 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:46.200 and had the attitude of like, this is a collaborative effort, 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:49.200 this is a thing that we do together. We don't 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.400 do this, this isn't without writers on the set, we 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:54.120 don't make the same show. And I'm not going to 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:57.800 make that show fire me basically was what he was saying. 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:00.680 He called their bluff and the show shut down and 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:03.040 write it around strike for four months, and then they 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:04.959 gave up jurisdiction of the internet. We went back to 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:07.080 work and then we made the Dinner Party, which is amazing, 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.440 and it was truly the story of what he did 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:14.120 spread like wildfire. Um, he did not have to do that. 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:17.000 There were very few people who were in the position 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:20.160 that he was in, obviously as the star of a 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:25.080 very popular, successful, gigantic, monolithic hit show. But still he 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:27.040 didn't have to do that. He could, No one would 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:29.440 have been mad at him. He wasn't on the active 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:32.440 and I was, you know, I remember having a huge, 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:36.280 long conversation with my representations saying like, how can I 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.560 walk past them? How can I cross how can I 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:41.680 cross the line? And he said that that you know, 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:44.680 you have no choice. You have to show up, and 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:46.640 we knew that, and Ed, I remember, Ed, came out 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:48.480 and was like, hey, guys, and he hung out with us, 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:51.680 and I remember Ed going, I'm really sorry, but I 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:53.120 have and we're like, no, no, no, we get it. 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:55.280 Your union is not on strike here, like you're not. 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:57.520 We get it. It's fine. No one's bad at you. 0:11:57.640 --> 0:11:59.760 Like no one had any animosity towards any of the 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:02.719 acts because you were in breach of contract if you 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:05.120 didn't show up. Steve was in breach of contract. He 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:09.320 just said, I don't care fire me. And it's easier 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:11.439 for the star of the show to do that than 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:14.240 it is for anyone else. But um, the story spread 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:18.400 like wildfire, and Mindy wrote a sign in marker Um 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:21.079 hung it on his trailer that said like Steve Corral 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:23.440 American hero or something and took a picture of it, 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:26.319 and it spread very quickly around the town and it 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:29.360 was a real like wind beneath the wings of the 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:33.720 guild at the time. It's amazing. I mean he you 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:40.280 can't sort of overstate just what an amazing guy he is. 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:44.800 And person to work with, ya, I mean, the person 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:48.240 who's number one on the call sheet sets the tone 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:51.040 of the show. It he or she just does it's 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:54.520 people take their cues from that person. That person kind 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:56.760 of says like this is what's allowable behavior, and this 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:59.880 is what isn't allowable behavior in a in a number 0:12:59.920 --> 0:13:04.000 of different ways, actively and passively. And his presence at 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:06.480 the top of the call sheet, especially in that early going, 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:10.400 but his professionalism, his his dedication. He was never late 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:13.480 a day in his life. He knew all of his lines, 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:15.800 and when he didn't, he improvised something that was funnier 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:19.080 than what we had written. Um. I don't know if 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:22.920 you know this story, but there was a even on 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:28.120 successful shows. In fact, especially on successful shows, networks are 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:31.640 always trying to slash budgets, right, like it's when something's 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.200 making money, it's not like thank god, we're making money, 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:36.840 it's how do we make more money? And there was 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.199 a budget meeting with NBC and Greg. It must have 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:41.040 been after season four because Greg and I were developing 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:43.400 Parks and Wreck and he asked me to come to say, like, 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:45.040 you're gonna have to deal with this kind of crap 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:47.880 and you should see what it's like. And there was 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:50.679 a budget terry meeting and they were trying to slash 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:54.520 the budget, and one of the things on the table 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:58.160 was reducing the size of the cast because at that point, 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:01.120 how many series regulars were there, twenty two or something. 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:03.319 It was a lot by far, the largest cast of 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:06.320 any show on television. And Greg was like, I don't 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:08.920 think that's a good idea that people invest in these characters. 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:12.520 Everyone has a different favorite character and even a side character, 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.160 you know, a character like you know Jan or something 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:16.840 who was not even a series regular, Like if you 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:18.400 don't have her on the show in a certain number 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:21.240 of episodes, it doesn't feel like the same show. And 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:23.200 they were like, well, we have to find the money somewhere, 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.160 you know, and we're only making seven eighty million dollars 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:30.040 a year. On this thing. And so we went back 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:33.160 and we had a meeting with Steve and I can't 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:36.080 remember who was there, but Greg was like, okay, so 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:37.640 here's what happened in the meeting. And they want to 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:39.400 cut the budget in this and that, and they threw 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:41.760 out a number of options, one of which was reducing 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:47.160 the cast, and Steve went no, no, no, no, no, no, 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:49.720 like he said no like eight times in a row. 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:51.880 And Greg was like, well, that was my reaction to 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:54.320 and Steve just went no, it's not happening. That is 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:56.120 not happening. We with that is not going to happen. 0:14:56.280 --> 0:15:00.120 Like he just so completely shut it down and is 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:01.800 even he was like, this is the show. These are 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:03.320 the people on the show. This is how the show 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:05.240 will be until the end of the show. That's it. 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:10.320 That's it, and and there were executives in the room 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:12.840 and it was like that ended the discussion. It was 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.640 just over, like there was no It was a little 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:18.760 bit like sue me or fired me. It was like, 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:22.360 in so many words, he was saying, I won't do 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:24.720 the show if you do that, like I will walk away. 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:26.880 And it just shut it down and shut it down forever, 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:29.720 and no one ever ever came up again, never once, 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.680 So mazing. Yeah, he's just he's just such a mench 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:38.720 and and his like it wasn't angry, he wasn't pounding 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:40.440 his fist. He was just saying, no, that's not going 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:45.320 to happen, that nonstarter, move on, what's next. And that's 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.400 the way he is. He was. It was just this quiet, 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:52.960 firm leadership that he exhibited all the time in every direction. 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:57.280 And he there was another time in two the big 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:00.560 future of TV was product placement that where money was 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:02.640 going to really be made, right, you were gonna Greg 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.640 used to to say, like the deal was you have 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:07.520 to take some medicine when you watch TV. In the 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:09.440 medicine as these ads, but then you get a yummy 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:11.120 treat and the treat is the show you like, right, 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:13.040 And product placement was they were going to try to 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:17.720 swirl the medicine into the into the and um Ben 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.320 was like a big proponent of it, and so was 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:22.080 it by the way everyone else, Like it was like 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:24.360 this is the future, Like the futures were going back 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:26.280 ironically to like the fifties, and it was like the 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:31.440 Lucky Strike comedy exactly, this is delicious. So we have 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:34.680 this big meeting, all hands on deck meeting. Um, we 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.320 had done the Staples thing, remember the Staples where you 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:38.960 had it. You you you bore the brunt of it because 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.200 you had to play with that shredder and and Staples 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:44.040 didn't send me a check. No, Well that was that 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:46.080 was that was partly. That was a big part of 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:49.080 Greg's objection to it was like, if Brian wants to 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:50.880 do a Staples ad, then he can go do a 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:53.640 Staples ad and they can pay him money. But Staples 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:57.320 is getting free Brian baum Gardner and free Rain Wilson 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.840 and free whoever. By like giving NB see money you need, 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:03.000 the show doesn't even really benefit. It's this kind of 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:06.840 complicated calculus, right. But we had this big meeting where 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:12.880 we were really being sold on product placement, and it 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:15.440 was it was getting away from us. It was being 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.000 put to us in a way where it was like 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:20.440 you're going to say yes to this. We're going to 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:22.680 keep telling you to do this until you say yes. 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:27.200 Talk talk talk talk talk talk. And then Craig went, Steve, 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:30.080 what do you think, which was a brilliant idea, and 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:34.040 Steve said, you know, I started in commercials and commercials 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:36.280 are great when you're a struggling actor and you need 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:39.600 money and stuff. But what happens in commercials is you 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:42.760 do a commercial for coke, and you know, you do 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:44.560 a take where you take a sip of coke and 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:48.359 you say mmmmm, coke tastes great, and then they go, okay, cut. 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.359 Can you rotate the can a little more like this 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:53.879 and hold it like this? Okay, good? Go again and 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:55.960 you go coke. I love coke. Coke takes right, and 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:57.639 they go great, but can you raise it up to 0:17:57.640 --> 0:17:59.720 your lips an inch higher when you take the sip? 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:01.720 Because you just do that over and over and over again. 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.359 And he said the idea that anyone would have that 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:08.240 kind of influencer control over our show and the way 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:12.280 we make our show, which is loose and fun and collaborative, 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:15.439 and the operators are diving for different things and the 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.439 actors get to try different things every time. I remember 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:21.320 him saying the idea that Rain would say something funny 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:22.960 and we wouldn't be able to use it because he 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.639 wasn't holding the coke can at the right angle. I 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.159 don't think that's a good idea. And there was a 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:31.280 pause and then it was like okay, well, let's we'll 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:34.000 pick up this discussion, you know, next week or something. 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:38.040 Never brought it up again. He just like he was 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:40.679 just the He was the guardian of the show. In 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:45.040 that way, he and Greg were just they had two 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:48.679 different versions of the job, but the onset world of 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:52.520 the show, Steve was the guardian protector of what we 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:54.919 did and how it was done and who did it 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:58.480 and no one messed them. It was just like he 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:02.760 was the final arbiter because he knew, he understood so 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:05.720 implicitly what made it great, and he wasn't interested in 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:17.520 letting anyone mess it up. 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Join me 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:13.919 and Jake Calpern, host of Pushkin's deep Cover podcast, on 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:17.640 March sixteenth for a digital conversation on true crime storytelling. 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:21.080 Get your tickets now at moment house dot com slash 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:23.960 d c l H that's m O M E and 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:30.159 t House dot com slash d c l H. Anybody 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:35.720 who is deemed to have power who thinks differently is 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:41.760 a threat and needs to be eliminated. 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