WEBVTT - Live Show (with Patti LuPone & Amber Ruffin) 0:00:01.560 --> 0:00:02.600 I'm Hillary Clinton. 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:07.080 Welcome to a very special episode of You and Me Both. 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:09.959 You know, just about a week ago, I had the 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:14.880 pleasure of taping our first ever live show in front 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:18.560 of a standing room only audience at Symphony Space in 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:23.000 New York City. Joining me was my very special guest, 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:27.840 Patty Lapone, with some help from one of my favorite comedians, 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:32.440 Amber Ruffin, who served as our MC. So buckle up 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:37.159 and enjoy the show. First you'll hear from Amber Ruffin. 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:43.880 It is my pleasure to introduce a bona fide Broadway legend, 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:48.120 the three time Tony Award winning actress singer Patty Lapone 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:52.720 and former Secretary of State and podcast host Hillary Rodham Clinton. 0:00:54.080 --> 0:01:04.080 Whoa, whoa, this is so excited everybody. I want to 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:09.080 thank my friend and one of the most genuinely funny 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:14.880 and wonderful human beings, Amber Ruffin for being with us, 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:18.640 and Amber will be back out later. But I have 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:20.880 to tell you this is like a dream come true 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:25.600 for me. Number one, we are doing the very first 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:34.080 live version of my podcast, You and Me Both, and 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:38.200 I could not think of a better person to do 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:48.240 that with than the one and only Patty LuPone. So 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:53.320 Patty welcome to this sold out audience here at Symphony Space. 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:58.360 And when I was thinking, you heard Amber talking about 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:01.960 how when Chelsea and I did uh gutsy and we 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:06.400 interviewed a lot of gutsy women who embodies gutsy more 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:13.200 than Patty and her spunk, her heart, her talent. 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:16.720 I mean, it is just an amazing combination. 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:20.840 So I'm going to dive right in and I actually 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:26.440 read your autobiography. You certainly have a lot of experience 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:32.080 on stages literally all over. You know, I'm happy to 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:36.400 be here interviewing you, but honestly, it's always been my 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:37.359 dream to sing. 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:40.120 Really yes, well, then. 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:42.680 You should sing tonight. I an'll have to sing. You 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:46.720 should sing tonight. You should sing tonight. Oh no, Hilary, 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:47.800 you should say Now, I. 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:50.760 Had to make the confession because it would end the 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:54.560 show early, and so we can't do that. But later 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:57.720 you're gonna have the real treat of hearing her saying. 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:01.360 You know. 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:06.400 I looked at the pictures in your wonderful autobiography I 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:10.840 read about your life, and I'm so pleased that the 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:19.160 sag after an actors strike has finished so that you 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:21.839 could actually talk about a lot of the things You've done. 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:25.000 It's perfect. Last Frand Dresser. That's all I've got to say. 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:30.000 God bless Frand Dresser. So let's start at the very beginning. 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:34.280 You were born on Long Island, Northport. 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:34.320 Right, Northport. 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:38.200 Yeah, So tell us a little bit about your family, 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:41.320 because it turns out that you had a kind of 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:43.800 pool of talent inside your own family. 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:47.160 Well, my mother and my father were not at all 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:49.760 in show business. In fact, my father expected us all 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:52.320 to be teachers, and my mother was just a Long 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:57.720 Island housewife. I'm of Italian descent, and when my parents 0:03:57.720 --> 0:03:59.560 were growing up, there was a great deal of prejudice. 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:03.400 My grandparents wanted their kids, both sides, the Patties and 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:08.320 the Loupons, to be American. My name is made up 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:10.960 of my parents' last name. My dad's LuPone, my mother's 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:14.559 a Patsy, so they wanted their kids to be American. 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:18.480 So my mother really showed business was the farthest thing 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:21.839 from her mind for her kids. But she was the 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:24.440 one that actually started it by enrolling me in a 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:26.520 dance class. And my brother Bobby saw me in a 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:28.960 huli skirt and fell in love with the hula skirt, 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:31.960 and he started dancing. That's the truth. 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:35.760 Well, but in fact, didn't you form a group later? 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:38.600 Yes, we did, because we had we had first it 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.880 was Miss Marguerite Dance Studio. Then it was Donald and 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:44.880 Rosalie Grant Dance Studio. Then it was the Andrea and 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:48.760 Bonnie and their friend Betty Dance Studio and Andre and Bonnie. 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:51.960 Andre was it was French. It was so kind of 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.080 exotic and wonderful, and he's a French accent, and he 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:57.960 put my brothers and I did an adagio waltz. My 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:00.760 brother Bobby and I did a tango. We actually competed 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:05.960 at Jones's speech. We won third prize. I still have 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:11.880 the trophy. So it was sort of even though my 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:14.839 mother never she actually was famous as saying to my 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.640 brother and I, it upsets me that you flip from 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:22.400 job to job. Yuh mau. Yeah, that's the way it goes. 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:25.520 But because she had no clue about about show business. 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:28.320 But she was the one that introduced us, and Bobby 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:33.159 and I both found our place. Yeah, it was a calling. 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:37.000 But you know, I actually love that story because it's 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:39.800 a story of a certain time and a certain place 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:45.239 and going from those dance studios and those other opportunities. 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:49.880 And I love the story that stories you. 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:55.040 Tell about your rather unusual audition for Juilliard. I mean, 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:58.440 here is this young girl, you were still a young girl, 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.560 and let it be said you hated school except for music. 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:05.520 Right, No, it's not in hate school. I was lucky 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:08.720 to go to a high school, an elementary, a junior high, 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:11.440 and a high school where music was an integral part 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:15.040 of our education as important as English, math and science. 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:19.000 We all studied and we also with the third grade 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:21.360 was marched into the Ocean Avenue Elementary School. There were 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:25.080 two posters on the wall band instruments orchestra instruments, and 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:28.720 our music teachers said pick an instrument, and we learned 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:31.200 started to learn how to read music in the third 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:34.000 grade and we carry that all the way through high school. 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:39.440 So kudos to the Northport school system for instilling music 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:44.599 into our lives. It breaks my heart that there isn't music. 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:46.599 It breaks my heart in school. 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:49.280 And you know, when you think about it, because that 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:53.080 used to be the norm, you would have, you know, music, 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:57.560 you might even have music appreciation because I can remember 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:00.719 in third grade we had a music teacher who would 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:03.560 come in and she would introduce us to things we would. 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:04.200 Never have known about. 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:08.040 I remember having her tell us about Aida and playing 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:09.120 from the score. 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:10.720 I'm in third grade. What do I know? 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:13.560 I know nothing about opera, nothing at all. 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:16.760 But now so many kids don't have that opportunity. 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:20.720 So it's really important to, you know, remind everybody that 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:23.280 it used to be much more common, and it gave 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.800 so many kids a chance to find themselves, find their 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:28.760 talents or enhance what they need. 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:31.280 And the arts are the soul of a nation. 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:32.040 Amen. 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:34.440 Well, you've done your part to try to, you know, 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:38.120 deliver a lot to a lot of happy people. And 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:40.640 I want to go back to this audition at Juilliard 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:43.120 because here you are in high school and you do 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:48.400 have support from some teachers and some other adults in 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:49.000 your life. 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:50.920 And what did you decide to do? 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:53.360 I knew what I was going to do. I actually 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:55.560 I wanted to be a rock and roller because I 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:58.360 grew up in the age of rock and roll. But 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:00.920 whenever I opened my mouths to sing a rock and 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:03.840 roll so I sounded like ethel Mermons, so that wasn't 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:09.040 going to work. But still I'm a closet rocker, so 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:11.480 I knew that my I knew at a very young age. 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:13.920 First of all, I remember when I was sixteen saying, 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.880 my career is in Europe, and of course it hasn't been. 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:21.400 But I've always felt more European than American, and I 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:23.560 always wanted my career to be I wanted to sing 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:25.800 in Europe, and I knew what I was going to do. 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:27.520 I knew that I wouldn't end up on the Broadway 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:29.960 musical stage. I just knew that. So it's not that 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:31.760 I hated school. It's just that I knew where my 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:35.960 focus was. And when my junior high school guidance counselor 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.520 asked me what I wanted to major in in high school, 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:41.560 I said music. He said, you can't. Why did you 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:44.800 ask me then? And ultimately what I did do was 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:47.640 skip every other class and just went to the music classes. 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:49.960 I don't know how I graduated. They wanted me out, 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:53.160 so that's how I got out, and then Julliard, and 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:55.360 then my mother wanted me to go to a college, 0:08:55.400 --> 0:09:01.040 and I went n and I moved to New York City, 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:04.920 found one hundred dollars a month, five floor walk up 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:07.440 railroad flat on East nineteenth and Second Avenue, and got 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:12.920 a job at the Ginza at waitress, and I auditioned 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:16.360 for Broadway musicals. My brother Bobby was attending the dance 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:19.520 division of Juilliard. He said they were starting a drama division, 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:21.679 and I only auditioned for my mother and my brother. 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:23.760 I did not want to go to college, and my 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:27.200 audition was I didn't even care. I picked the most 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.520 obvious classical speech, the most obvious contemporary speech. I went 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:32.880 at the time, we were hippie, so I was in 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:36.679 a granny dress with granny shoes and granny glasses. And 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:40.520 when I did my it was Kate's epulogue from Taming 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:43.200 of the Shrew five fi on that threatening on Kim Brown, 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:52.079 dark knot scornful glances at thy lord, thy Master. When 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:54.400 I finished the speech, John Hausman came to the foot 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:56.079 of the stage and said, I don't think that's what 0:09:56.280 --> 0:10:02.360 Shakespeare had in mind. And I frankly couldn't care less. 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:06.080 So I did that, and I did Dolly Levi's money 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:09.880 speech from the Matchmaker, and then there was a lot 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:12.040 of silence out there, and of course I couldn't see them. 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:15.640 Then somebody shouted out an improv, which is I got 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:18.360 a rejection letter from the drama division of the Juilliard School. 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:21.720 So I went over to opened up a mailbox, pulled 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:23.640 out the letter, opened it up, read it, throw it 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:24.360 over my shoulder. 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:25.360 That's what got me in. 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:27.599 That's what got me in. 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:31.320 And didn't you say John Houseman? Did you say John Houseman? 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:36.320 Yeah? Okay, mister Housman, mister Houseman to me, yeah? 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:40.480 For people, who was John Houseman? Because not everybody remembers well. 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:44.280 John Housman was a very powerful producer in the Mercury Theater. 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:50.319 He worked with Orson Wells. He was a frightening man 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:55.560 when I met him, and he was the co artistic 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.720 director of the initial drama division of the Juilliard School. 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:00.720 The Julliard School used to the Julliard School of Music, 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:03.440 but in order for them to move down to Lincoln Center, 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:05.679 they had to become a complete performing arts swing, so 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:08.280 they had to add a drama division. And Peter Mennon, 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.240 who was the president of the Juilliard School of Music, 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:15.280 was not happy that we would now have actors in 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:20.400 the building, and John Housman and Peter Manon did not 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:25.360 get along at all. But John was also frightening to me. 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:29.439 I mean, he was a very imposing man, and he 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:33.760 it was difficult, It was scary to be in that school. 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:35.880 It was a brutal education. 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:39.319 And one of the people who you were in that 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:42.840 school with was someone who I think became your boyfriend 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:45.240 for a number of years, right, Kevin Klein. 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:49.280 Yes, yeah, he was my boyfriend. 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:55.120 And that's all we'll. 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:55.599 Hear about that. 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:59.440 Ladies and gentlemen, moving right along. 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:05.000 So you get out of Juilliard, but you're still part 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.599 of a almost a kind of acting company, right, And 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:15.040 you performed nearly anywhere, anytime anybody asked, and it was 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:19.280 apparently an amazing, full immersion experience for you. 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:23.240 It was you know, acting as a craft, and a 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:30.040 craft takes training, and we were given the golden opportunity 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:35.040 to hone our craft. We learned what we could at Juilliard, 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:38.160 and Juilliard was our class was sort of the guinea 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:42.280 pigs of the entire acting experience. What they wanted was 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:45.000 to break the psyche down of an American actor and 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:48.760 form the Juilliard actor that could be a classical actor, 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:53.719 a contemporary actor, act in every particular styles, restoration, Jacko Beean, 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:58.720 Elizabethan modern, and be able to work with Russian directors, 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:04.520 French directors, American directors. So in school we were inundated 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:07.480 with technique, not so much acting classes, but a lot 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:11.040 of technique. When John put us on display on our 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:13.440 third year, mal Guso, who was a critic, second string 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:15.800 critic for the New York Times, said, keep this company together, 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.559 don't break them up, which was John's q. To keep 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:21.240 this company together. So when we graduated from Juilliard, he 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.800 handed us an equity card and a seat on a 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:27.480 dominical bus and we toured the shows that we had 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:31.679 been performing in our third and fourth years with sets 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:34.960 that weren't built to tour. That was the first problem, 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:39.199 and we had been trained to do three shows and 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.800 on the fourth the performance fell apart. We didn't know 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:48.400 how to maintain and so we got lessons that no 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.959 actors get any more, which is a pity because we 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:56.360 were armed to the teeth with technique, so that when 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:58.760 somebody says something to me, I don't go no, I 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:02.760 can't do that. At a fear, I say, yeah, I 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:05.439 can do that because I want to. Whether I know 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:08.040 how to do it or not, I have the technique 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:11.440 to figure it out. And if I fail, that's okay. 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:14.319 That was the other thing that techniques allows. The technique 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:17.480 allows you to fail because you know, you can figure 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:18.040 something out. 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.760 I think that's incredible for people to hear, because it's 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:25.440 not just about acting, it's about life. Yeah, and you know, 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:33.240 being equipped, you know, having skills putting yourself in new situations, 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:39.720 oftentimes difficult ones. You're constantly learning, You're constantly honing who 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.480 you are, and for that, you were honing who you 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:48.880 became as an actor. And I read with just almost 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:52.840 open mouthed wonder at how you all were willing to 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:55.960 do anything, take on any challenge, you know, just to 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:58.600 fulfill that craft of being an actor. 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:01.640 I think it has to be a passion. That's it, 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:06.320 you know. I have tremendous problems with the younger performers 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:11.880 today that say I can't basically or it's too hard. 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:14.320 You have to love it and you have to want 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:17.560 to be challenged in anything. I'm not just talking about theater. 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:20.040 You have to want to be challenged in order to 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:24.240 grow because you love what you're doing and you want 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:26.600 to learn. That's the other thing you want to learn. 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:28.480 And I have to I have to say in many 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:31.320 of these cases, I think maybe that the younger generation 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:36.200 is fearful, and fear is a crippler. And if you 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:39.960 don't admit your fear, embrace your fear, then you will 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:43.240 put up blocks. I can't do that. I won't do that. 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:48.880 My character wouldn't let me do that. What the fuck? Sorry, 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:53.400 my character, you know what I'm saying. So, but and 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.240 I think that I think fear. I think we don't 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:58.760 acknowledge fear enough in our own lives or in our 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:01.240 whatever it is we do. And if if we David 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:04.240 Mammott said this, dare to live in the area where 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:08.440 you do not know what's going on. That's the area 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.560 you learn. That's the area where things start to pop, 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:14.120 things start to blossom. When you admit you are not 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:15.000 in control. 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:22.200 Then you learn you make yourself vulnerable and you kind 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:24.800 of take a leap of faith, almost, don't you. 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.080 We're taking a quick break. Stay with us. 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:42.480 Well, the first time I ever saw you on a 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:51.120 stage was in your breakthrough role in Avida. Okay, that 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:58.520 was back in nineteen seventy nine when you played Ava perone. Now, 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:02.040 you were cast over a lot of really big names, 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:03.680 famous names, people. 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:06.600 Who were vying for that role, but they picked you. 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:07.720 Why do you think they picked you? 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:14.080 I I don't know. Actually, I know that Joanna Merlin 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:18.959 got rest her soul was house casting director. Joanna had 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:22.440 seen us in the acting company, and she knew I 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:26.920 could act. She didn't know whether I could sing, and 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:32.600 so my auditions were primarily whether I could sing. And 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:37.360 I think that Hal would have preferred someone that was unknown. 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:40.639 Prince help Prince would have preferred someone that was unknown 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:44.800 to have the control that he needed for this particular piece. 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.920 I mean, I'm just speculating that if there was a 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.800 bigger name, there might have been ego clashes. I don't know. 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:54.480 It's a very difficult part. Mandy and I actually because 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.359 Mandy went to Juliet as well Patinkin. Mandy and I 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:00.639 were able to connect the dots in because it's only exposition, 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:02.000 and then she did this, and then she did that, 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:03.560 and then she did this, and then she did that 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:08.200 and then she died. You know, It's like, but it's exposition. 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:11.480 There's very little conflict. There's very little drama in that. 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:13.119 So Mandy and I were able to figure out how 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:15.639 to connect the dots and make it dramatic because we 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:19.520 had training as actors and the singing was the thing 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:20.480 that killed me. 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:21.080 And I. 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:25.080 Said it afterwards, and how I was very upset with 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:27.240 me for saying it. But it was a terrible experience 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:33.159 because I couldn't sing it, and it took such willpower. 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:37.520 I willed my voice every single night, and I couldn't fail. 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.720 I would not allow myself to fail. I would figure 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:45.280 this out. This is where I belonged on the Broadway 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:49.440 musical stage. This is a role you can play. You 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:51.680 just have to figure it out. 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:55.120 And when you're talking about how difficult it was, it's 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:59.480 because of the scoring. It's because of the saying, oh, 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:02.119 you have to hit. It's because of the breathing that 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:04.440 is so hard in between those notes. 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:07.199 Right, it sits, and I'm sure there's singers out there. 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.200 It sings in a sopranos passagio. And the passaggio is 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:12.480 if if there's a rubber band and you stretch the 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:15.840 rubber band, the weakest part of the rubber band is 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:19.640 the passaggio in a voice. It goes from chest to head. 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:21.920 It's just the weakest part. That's where all the money 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:24.399 notes were, right in the place where you hit it 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.639 wrong one night, it's going to affect your voice for 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:29.560 the rest of there's somebody in the audience now that 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:33.160 was in my castmatee in Ivita, and he can tell 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.399 you every story because one of my closest friends in Ivita, 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.920 Peter Marinos, who was my support backstage, who was my 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:44.520 support in life with Salma Stretta, because he saw what 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:47.680 I was going through and it was the singing. The 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.399 singing is so well. The first time I heard the 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:53.880 concept score with Julie Comington, David Essex and Colin Wilkinson, 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:58.320 this guy hates women. It was, it was, It was 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:01.520 so difficult, and Well gave me a tape with four 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:06.600 speeches from the Casa Rozata and the first two the 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:10.720 voice and this is the comparison. Is only the tone, 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:14.000 you guys, It's only the tone. You know, that pin 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:18.280 that that that Sarah Palin has and Marjorie Taylor Green 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:26.480 has that wason, she had that ping and so you 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:37.480 have to pu you have to imbue the music with 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:41.159 that quality in order to get across. He supports you, 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:43.320 for he loves you, understands you, is one of you, 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:47.800 you know, and those notes the d's, d's, e's, f's, 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:51.399 and g's, and you have to in order to convince 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:55.960 an audience. The death Camisado's an audience. Why she's such 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:58.720 a cult figure, you cannot sing it lyrically. And that 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:02.280 was the thing that was killing me, frankly. And what 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:05.639 happened and I got through New York, Mandy left and 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:08.640 I went, oh. And it was very difficult when Mandy 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:11.960 left because he was my rock. But when I left, 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:14.760 Tyler Gatchell, the general manager, came he said, why are 0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:16.879 you leaving? It said, because I've lost my sense of humor. 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:21.800 The role was so controversial. My applause used to dip 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:24.439 after Mandy's and I would go down going it's because 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:28.920 I'm so good in the part. Literally it would dip 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:32.360 out because they were so ambiguous on what they felt 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:35.480 about Ivita Parron. So I had lost my sense of humor. 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:37.639 I got to get out of here. Then the woman 0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:42.639 that played Ivita and Australia, and she was talking the 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:48.080 part it knocked every Evita out. It's such a brutal score. 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:50.160 So they called me and they said would you come down? 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:52.600 And I thought, well, I'm never going to get asked 0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:56.240 to sing in Australia again? Why not? And then I 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:59.040 said to my general manager Howard Haynes, Are you buying 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:02.560 my performance? I don't know where that came from, and 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:04.919 he said yes. And when I got to Australia, they 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:08.680 were doing everything on the opposite foot, and I went, 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:10.680 I'm not learning what you're doing. You're going to learn 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:16.320 what I'm doing. I didn't have that much time to 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:19.560 go back into a part and a part that scared 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:23.359 me to death, and now I'm in the part with 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:26.480 a brilliant company of just the most wonderful people in 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:30.080 the world, and there was no pressure to prove myself. 0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:33.760 I wasn't in New York, one of the cruelest environments 0:22:33.840 --> 0:22:36.880 if you were a performer. I wasn't in New York. 0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:41.800 I didn't have to deal with critics that were cruel. 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:44.440 David Mammmett said this as well, he doesn't care what 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:46.320 the critics say as long as he knows they love 0:22:46.400 --> 0:22:49.119 the theater. I'm not sure our critics have ever loved 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:49.640 the theater. 0:22:53.440 --> 0:22:57.119 Well, this was really revelatory to me because watching you 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:01.120 do this performance, which you know I have vivid memories 0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:04.800 of all those years ago, there was no sense at 0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:07.159 all how difficult it was. 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:07.679 I mean, you. 0:23:07.880 --> 0:23:11.320 Inhabited that role, your arms up in that big v 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:16.840 that you know, just was thrilling. I was not, frankly, 0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:19.600 you know, taken by the controversy over her, but I 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:22.200 know that there was a lot of controversy there. And 0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:25.600 so you won a Tony Award, how difficult it was, 0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:29.880 and you won a Tony Award and you entered Broadway 0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:34.440 history and you were literally on your way because people 0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:38.000 were just knocked out by your performance and you were too, 0:23:38.200 --> 0:23:40.080 but they gave you a Tony for it. 0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:44.440 But it's interesting because you know, there was a time 0:23:44.720 --> 0:23:51.240 in our Broadway legacy where leading ladies were celebrated and 0:23:51.359 --> 0:23:53.840 then leading men were celebrated, and I was in the 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:57.679 period where leading men were celebrated. Mikael Barishnikov and Gregory 0:23:57.760 --> 0:24:01.760 Hines and Mandy and David Agdenstein all went off to Hollywood. 0:24:03.600 --> 0:24:07.000 That did not happen for me. It was a controversial character. 0:24:07.520 --> 0:24:10.120