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Speaker 1: Last, Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Every Wednesday, we recap our old shows and

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Speaker 2: we give you a new commentary and updates and insights.

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Speaker 1: Today we're recapping episodes seventy eight, which we named the

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Speaker 1: freshest recording.

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Speaker 2: It really is. This episode came out on July twentieth,

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Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, so.

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Speaker 3: Let's get into it.

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Speaker 1: Let's listen to the intro of episode seventy eight, the

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Speaker 1: Beeping connect.

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Speaker 2: Should I go tell us beeping to stop? You don't

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Speaker 2: hear there's no beeping, Georgia, And we've started and breakdown

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Speaker 2: and Georgia, here's beeping.

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Speaker 3: Do you hear that sound of a baby crying? This

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Speaker 3: is not an ad for a new beeper, for a

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Speaker 3: new brain. We're bringing back beeper deepers. Are you a

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Speaker 3: doctor or a drug dealer? Or do you play one

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Speaker 3: on TV?

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Speaker 2: Then you need a deeper?

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Speaker 3: Or are you having an.

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Speaker 1: Affair and you need it? Wait for your an affair

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Speaker 1: person to contact you?

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Speaker 3: What was the affair?

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Speaker 2: What was the thing of like some kind of a

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Speaker 2: four to one one but for hookups? No?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was like I didn't do I guess I

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Speaker 3: didn't hook up when I had a beeper. Oh I

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Speaker 3: did all of the sume.

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Speaker 2: No, when I was an emergency room intern. No, never,

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Speaker 2: of course not. You're serious. I'm super blackout drunk at

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Speaker 2: a bar. And then I hold up my beeper.

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Speaker 3: Guys, I've got to go. My sugar daddy's.

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Speaker 1: Calling one of my uh hey, welcome of my favorite

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Speaker 1: Welcome murdered.

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Speaker 2: That's George hart Star, that's Karen Kilgara. We're here to

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Speaker 2: read to you and tell to you true crime stories

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Speaker 2: from all around the nation and world and more, and

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Speaker 2: then some, and then more and then after that half

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Speaker 2: a teaspoon more. It's the morning we've ever arted in

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Speaker 2: the morning.

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Speaker 3: This is so weird.

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Speaker 2: I had to stay at work late last night. Everybody

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Speaker 2: got to adjust to my needs. So we were supposed

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Speaker 2: to record last night. I called and said, I'm still

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Speaker 2: at work. Then, Georgia, you've actually been into this idea

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Speaker 2: for I feel like, yeah, very morning positive about right.

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Speaker 1: Just feels fun and fresh and like different, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean. Like recording in a different place. It

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Speaker 1: feels like a field trip without going anywhere.

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Speaker 2: Yees.

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Speaker 3: School is new again for us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and now I can really learn and it lets

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Speaker 1: me drink whiskey in the morning finally.

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Speaker 3: Because I can't do this podcast without whiskey.

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Speaker 2: That's not true, that's not true. But let me just

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Speaker 2: I just need to put this out here. If you

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Speaker 2: or any of your friends are drinking whiskey in the morning,

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Speaker 2: that was the end stage for me, right before I

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Speaker 2: was hospitalized. I know you're joking.

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Speaker 3: What I meant that I was legitimately here in the clear.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I always like can I no if it's not

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Speaker 1: on a weekend and it's not brunch. Although this is like, well,

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Speaker 1: what's weird is that this is going to come out

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Speaker 1: later today, So everyone listening on Thursday, this is this morning?

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Speaker 3: Are you fucking beato? Oh yeah? Same day?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, same first time, same day. This is the freshest

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Speaker 2: recording we've got. Got your fault. I was out of.

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Speaker 1: Town on Tuesday and Monday, so we couldn't record like

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Speaker 1: we usually do.

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Speaker 2: Oh thank you, that's Georgia. It's a lot to me.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't put it.

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Speaker 3: On you at all, because, yeah, that's very nice of

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Speaker 3: you to mention.

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Speaker 2: I didn't even realize that. Georgie's how was that trip?

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Speaker 2: By the way, to tell the people what you were doing.

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Speaker 1: I fucking had this crazy experience Oxygen uh had They

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Speaker 1: were gonna have us instead, it was just me available, and.

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Speaker 2: I was like, fuck yeah, hell yeah, Oxygen is turning

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Speaker 2: on a true crime network.

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Speaker 3: This is not a plug. They didn't pay me to

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Speaker 3: do this or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: She's just trying to tell her story. I really had

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Speaker 1: an incredible time there. So they have this like special called.

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Speaker 3: The Jury Speaks. The Jury thank you, You're welcome, mother,

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Speaker 3: really early and I've only had bullet coffee. You've only

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Speaker 3: had two shots of whiskey. Yeah, so far. So the

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Speaker 3: Jury Speaks.

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Speaker 1: And so I did this panel for press where I

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Speaker 1: interviewed four of the jury members who were on these

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Speaker 1: like high profile cases where they were really fucking controversial

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Speaker 1: and like kind of ruined these jurors lives for a

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Speaker 1: while because instead of blaming the justice system that, let

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Speaker 1: you know, George ZIMMERMANO, they blamed the juries for voting

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Speaker 1: the way that they were told to vote, which is

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Speaker 1: if you have reasonable doubt, and then asked the question

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Speaker 1: like if you with everything you know now, would you

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Speaker 1: vote differently? And these people were so they were just

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Speaker 1: normal people who were very affected by these trials by

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Speaker 1: what happened to them afterwards. How could you not be

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Speaker 1: This one woman who was on the George Zimmerman trial

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Speaker 1: was just such a She just was so emotionally raw

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Speaker 1: and wonderful and I.

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Speaker 2: Really really she really to me, it sounds like it's

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Speaker 2: gonna be a good show. I would love to watch that.

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Speaker 2: I watched it. It's I you know, you're like, I'm

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Speaker 2: so sick of the O. J. Simpson trial. I've seen

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Speaker 2: every fucking thing about it. Well, this is from the

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Speaker 2: jury's perspective.

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Speaker 1: It's all interesting, usually never seen anything of and they

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Speaker 1: explain why they voted the way they voted, which everyone's like,

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Speaker 1: you fucking fuck you.

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Speaker 3: You know, so Michael Jackson case, it's really cool. I

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Speaker 3: feel like people were.

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Speaker 2: Fuck you in the nineties and now, especially because of

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Speaker 2: those two things that came out recently, everyone's like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I get it. I'm starting to get it as like

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Speaker 2: a white American, I'm starting to understand what all the

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Speaker 2: things I didn't know I never opened my eyes to

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Speaker 2: before were about. Yeah, and how unfair it is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it was insane, really interesting. So that's what

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Speaker 3: I was.

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Speaker 2: That's great and it was fun my bet. Yeah, did

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Speaker 2: you get your hair? Did?

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Speaker 3: I got my nails and toasted?

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Speaker 2: But like, what about were you in that makeup chair?

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Speaker 2: I'm saying that's my favorite and anything.

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Speaker 3: No for this, it wasn't.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't recorded, unfortunately, because I the first time I'm

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Speaker 1: life headed the panel.

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Speaker 3: It was like a live panel. It was a.

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Speaker 1: Panel four press, and so there was like fifty sixty

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Speaker 1: people in the room that were a press and I

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Speaker 1: was like, so when you got sequestered and asking and

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Speaker 1: then the person who made the show is Nancy Glass,

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Speaker 1: who remember was the Inside Edition blonde woman.

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Speaker 3: Nancy Glass. Yeah, she's a.

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Speaker 1: Fucking badass and she was on the panel and she's

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Speaker 1: just been She's one Emmy's she's just an incredible broadcaster.

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Speaker 1: So it's so weird to be sitting there interviewing her

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, you should be. She was incredible, and

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Speaker 1: so she made it. It's just it's great, that's so cool. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have a really good time.

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Speaker 3: Does that mean she picked you to be the person?

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I don't think so. But she pretended to.

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Speaker 1: Know who I am and I was honored.

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Speaker 3: I took a photo with her.

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Speaker 2: It was just really creating.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she's just this long time true crime investigative journalist,

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Speaker 1: journalist toast and I was just I was honored to

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Speaker 1: be there.

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Speaker 3: Awesome, first class, first class on the way there. Oh shit,

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Speaker 3: on my dime, I didn't they didn't.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it? How about you? Who me? Oh?

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Speaker 2: I'm just sitting in an office for eleven hours a

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Speaker 2: day talking about what fictional characters may or may not

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Speaker 2: do in their lives and why and if it could

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Speaker 2: be symbolic or.

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Speaker 3: Any meaningful in any way to other people.

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Speaker 2: And it's just conversation after conversation, and by the time

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Speaker 2: I leave, I don't want to speak and look at

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Speaker 2: anybody else. I've eaten so much Trader Joe's snack food. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I have it really rough, but first class, first class

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Speaker 2: all the way. Baby. The one thing I did want

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Speaker 2: to mention we've gotten tons of tweets about is the

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Speaker 2: fact that they id'd a an unknown victim of John

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Speaker 2: Wayne Gacy totally. Cook County Sheriff just made this announcement,

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Speaker 2: and of course we got one thousand tweets about it,

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Speaker 2: which I love. The funniest thing is now all the

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Speaker 2: tweets are did you already get this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, or I know you already saw this, but just

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Speaker 1: in case, it was just sweet.

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Speaker 2: Thank you mommy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So just really quick if you haven't read any of

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Speaker 2: the articles, which you probably and.

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Speaker 3: They came out today, so I'm glad we're recording today.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh So they said, so there's eight I unidentified victims,

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Speaker 2: and at the time when they found these bodies, it

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Speaker 2: was nineteen seventy six.

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Speaker 3: Uh no, sorry, it was nineteen seventy eight that they

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Speaker 3: found the bodies.

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Speaker 2: I believe, right.

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Speaker 3: I don't have the seventy eight or seventy nine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but so eight were unidentified and they couldn't do

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Speaker 2: anything about it because they didn't they of course obviously

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Speaker 2: didn't have the forensics that we have today, and they

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Speaker 2: kept jawbone I know. But they so that if people

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Speaker 2: came forward with dental records so creepy. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So back then, like it was, dental wasn't a thing

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Speaker 1: that it is today, which is like you take your

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Speaker 1: kids immediately, So not everyone had dental records back then.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right, And that's so this I nified victim,

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Speaker 2: Jimmy Hockinson. He was sixteen years old when he was

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Speaker 2: murdered by John Wayne Gacy baby and his mother actually

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Speaker 2: went to Chicago in nineteen seventy nine to try to

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Speaker 2: find out if her missing son was one of the victims,

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Speaker 2: but because she didn't have dental records, they couldn't tell

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Speaker 2: her anything. They they had no way of knowing anything.

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Speaker 2: But they have continued to test these these the you know, remains, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the remains that they have. And the cool thing is,

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Speaker 2: so it's thirty nine years later and Hawkinson's nephew sees

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Speaker 2: that they're still testing remains, so he encourages his I

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Speaker 2: believe it was his aunt and his father to go

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Speaker 2: give the DNA so they could test it.

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Speaker 1: And immediately fucking murdering of if he's just like, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to track my uncle down.

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Speaker 2: Wouldn't you be so fascinated if you had a missing

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Speaker 2: uncle who suspect was suspected to have been at sixteen?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you and I would be.

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Speaker 1: I think most people listening would be like, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to track this down, but some people would be like,

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Speaker 1: this is too hard for my family that they don't

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Speaker 1: want to talk about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's And it's also when it's just a missing child,

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Speaker 2: that's just like that's I mean, it's so sad. They

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Speaker 2: just no answer.

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Speaker 1: You almost do you want an answer, because then it's

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Speaker 1: like it's it's a period on the sentence that like

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Speaker 1: maybe he'll walk through the door someday or maybe you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm really wanting to know that it's over and that

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Speaker 1: this monster John Wayne Gacy is the reason, and like

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Speaker 1: his mom let him move to Chicago to like start

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Speaker 1: a new life. And then they said, right that he

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Speaker 1: called her on the August fifth. I just read of

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Speaker 1: this morning, yeah, when he got there, when he got there,

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Speaker 1: and they think maybe the same day he got capturing, right.

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Speaker 2: Uh, well that was all I read was that was

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Speaker 2: the last she ever heard of him, so it was

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Speaker 2: like very soon after. I love the way that he

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Speaker 2: really underlined the fact that his family loved him, His

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Speaker 2: family had been searching for him. This was not you know,

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Speaker 2: it's that thing they always do, not always do, but

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Speaker 2: sometimes do the story with victims, which is the hits,

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Speaker 2: you know, the hitchhiker who didn't care about their life,

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Speaker 2: the runaway who it doesn't matter what happened to them anyway,

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Speaker 2: the sex worker who I mean, who really cares? This

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Speaker 2: is just another victim where it's like he really was underlining,

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Speaker 2: this is a family who missed their child, their sixteen

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Speaker 2: year old boy for thirty nine years. Yeah, I hope

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Speaker 2: I didn't sound like when I said that they didn't

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Speaker 2: want to know that.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if that's true or not, but no,

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Speaker 3: you're just saying that's a possibility some people probably.

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Speaker 2: Then the grief then you have to like, then that's

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Speaker 2: a whole new grieving problem, and.

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Speaker 1: You've learned how to compartmentalize this. Anyways, I don't know

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Speaker 1: who knows. I've never lost someone like that, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: who know. I'm just speculating. Yeah, that's how this show is.

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Speaker 1: This podcast is speculation. It's speculation.

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Speaker 2: I like to lie out what was the quote or

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Speaker 2: the like saying you call it or someone.

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Speaker 1: Called it, but the vague postulating, that's vague postulates something

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Speaker 1: like serious vague postulating.

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Speaker 2: Yeah that's what I'm.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're just talking to a seer, vague postulator something.

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Speaker 1: Well that's fucked up, and I'm glad. And then the

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Speaker 1: creepiest part to me was that they could tell when

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Speaker 1: it happened based on this like stacking of the body.

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Speaker 2: Oh right, like what number victim he was?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, could you hold on one second.

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Speaker 1: There's somebody either trying to break in or clean, probably clean,

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Speaker 1: But why would they or the kittens doing something.

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Speaker 3: Which I don't think she is sounds like cleaning.

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Speaker 1: Why, I don't think they do that ever, No, look

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Speaker 1: at that, discuss why would you?

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Speaker 3: But how do you get up there?

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Speaker 2: Maybe maybe there's something going up the side of the building.

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Speaker 1: All right, we'll keep this in because someone's trying to

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Speaker 1: break into my fucking house right now.

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Speaker 3: Okay, they left, they gave up. It was a humming

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Speaker 3: bird crashed into the window.

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Speaker 2: Then heavy birds trying to kill me.

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Speaker 3: That's where my brain goes to immediately.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, So they stacked the bodies and that's he

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Speaker 1: stacked them by like when he got them, you just

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Speaker 1: like buried them on top of each other so they

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Speaker 1: could be like he died at this time or this year,

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Speaker 1: because we know the body underneath him went away like

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Speaker 1: to disappeared on this day and one on top of

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Speaker 1: him disappeared on this day.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, theyking it's not creepy, but it's the visual

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Speaker 3: is that makes me so.

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Speaker 2: Sad for these kids. The visual of that is what

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Speaker 2: like sparked right my what the hell is going on

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Speaker 2: in this actual world?

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Speaker 3: That's exactly it. Yeah, with the bearing of the bodies,

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Speaker 3: it was the diet drawing.

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Speaker 2: A diagram of where the bodies were buried in the house.

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Speaker 2: And to me, to my child's mind, I thought he'd

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Speaker 2: buried them in the wall. Yes, it didn't make sense

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Speaker 2: to me that it was underneath. So I was just

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Speaker 2: like because I knew my parents were telling me so, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because my parents would always be like, we'll tell you later,

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Speaker 2: we'll tell you when your mother, which nothing makes you

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Speaker 2: want to know more. I mean, then they tell you

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Speaker 2: that for real. And so that was one of the ones. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: it's it makes me happy that they're still working the

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Speaker 2: way they are. Yeah, for this that there's something about

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Speaker 2: that that's very heartening to me.

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Speaker 3: Can we go back to you never gave me an answer.

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Speaker 1: What time drinking whiskey means you're about to Karen out

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Speaker 1: and have to go to the hospitals?

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Speaker 3: Call it Karen, sorry, Stephen, take that out.

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Speaker 2: No, you don't have to. You know what it is.

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Speaker 3: It's not time of day.

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Speaker 2: It's that you think you need it why and and

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Speaker 2: you think it's okay when it's not a choice, because

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Speaker 2: it moves to a point where it's not a choice anymore,

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Speaker 2: especially when you're at that point. I was only drinking

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Speaker 2: whiskey only so my friends. Would we'd meet at a bar,

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Speaker 2: people would get around of beers. I would have a

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Speaker 2: shot of Jamison's. I would be done before everybody. Of

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Speaker 2: course mine was smaller, and then I would.

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Speaker 3: Keep on having shots of whiskey until I.

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Speaker 2: Was trying to kick the bouncer and the shins for

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Speaker 2: no reason.

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Speaker 1: Party Central, Party, Karen Party times anyway, All right, eleven o'clock, we're.

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Speaker 3: Around eleven fifteen if at that point.

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Speaker 2: I remember taking a bottle of Jameson's off the top

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Speaker 2: of my refrigerator the second I woke up in the morning,

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Speaker 2: like it was coffee, and as I drank it, like

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Speaker 2: just took a twig of it, thinking this is very bad.

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Speaker 2: Oh you knew then, yeah, but you were like, well,

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Speaker 2: i'll stop soon, I'll stop doing this, but today is

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Speaker 2: not that. No. I knew, no, you know what it was.

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Speaker 3: I knew it was bad, and I knew I should stop,

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Speaker 3: but I also.

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Speaker 2: Knew I could not stop. I knew how scary it

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Speaker 2: was horrible. I'm sorry, I thank you congratulations because you

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Speaker 2: fucking did it, and you did.

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Speaker 3: It well, and you did you did I'm so impressed

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Speaker 3: that you did that.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: As someone who drinks, I mean.

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Speaker 2: Look, I highly recommend seizures. They're very they are upsetting,

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Speaker 2: they're mysterious.

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Speaker 3: I tried one at like twelve, gave me a shot

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Speaker 3: at twelve.

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Speaker 2: Was it for me?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 2: I mean they're not for everybody.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I really had a seizure at twelve for what

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Speaker 1: my brother except my brother and I both had one

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Speaker 1: seizure like around that age and then never again.

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Speaker 3: It might have been your brain growth spurt, because kids.

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Speaker 2: Have them when they're seven, They have them when they're babies,

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Speaker 2: if they have fevers. Sometimes yeah, sometimes when you're seven,

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Speaker 2: sometimes when you're fourteen. Every seven years, when your brain

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Speaker 2: grows and like hormone release.

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Speaker 1: And I had been working, like playing soccer all day,

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Speaker 1: probably was to hydrate it, and I had it. And

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Speaker 1: this isn't interesting. I had it in my sleep, which

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Speaker 1: isn't supposed to actually be a seizure. No, that's when

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Speaker 1: I have all mine. Oh right, that's right, they are seizure.

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Speaker 1: Did I tell you I was sharing? This is how

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Speaker 1: young I was sharing a bunk bed with my sister.

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Speaker 1: I started shaking. Thank god we shared a run of

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Speaker 1: the time. She ran into my mom's room and said

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Speaker 1: we were really into the Simpsons at the time, and

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Speaker 1: she said.

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Speaker 2: Mom, George is having a cow.

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Speaker 3: I was probably younger.

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Speaker 2: I was probably like, what the fuck?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, oh Jesus, and I missed my whole ride in

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Speaker 3: the ambulance.

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Speaker 2: I'm so pupped about this because you're out. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: not that great. It's kind of weird. Okay, it's not

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Speaker 2: like fun like you think.

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Speaker 1: Stephen Ray Morris keeps giving us presents. We know we

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Speaker 1: get him nothing.

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Speaker 3: You just pulled that out of the end vope, A

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Speaker 3: little bit of nicey VHS. You see VHS.

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Speaker 1: This must have cost Stephens an invoice.

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Speaker 2: Here you go, it's your story.

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Speaker 3: Here you go.

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Speaker 2: Appreciate everyone that those in the dark Joseph Wambaugh's echoes

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00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:28,639
Speaker 2: in the darkness, everybody. This is the story.

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Speaker 3: Fucking video cassette.

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Speaker 2: He tracked down. It's Peter Coyotie, Robert log Yes, doctor

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00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:39,879
Speaker 2: Channing telling the story of William Bradfield Patches. He called him.

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00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:45,200
Speaker 3: Doctor Principal Smith, Principal, what was his name?

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Speaker 1: Principle the principal and then patches missing children with the

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Speaker 1: fucking little statue in the forest Stephen Guy A.

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Speaker 3: Plus, it's such a cool VHS like it's it's such

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00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:01,800
Speaker 3: a VHS that I remember from my childhood.

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00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:03,359
Speaker 2: I mean it's in perfect condition.

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Speaker 3: Somebody really held onto that type.

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Speaker 2: Somebody really, somebody.

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00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:09,120
Speaker 3: Dusted their VHS shelf every day.

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Speaker 1: Well, what makes me sound is like what happened to

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Speaker 1: them that they we were able to get this if

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00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,679
Speaker 1: they saved it that long, either they died and their parents,

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Speaker 1: for their.

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Speaker 3: Kids siblings, were like, sell it on eBay, sell all

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Speaker 3: of dad's VHS's. Oh can I go fucking dark all

397
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Speaker 3: the time?

398
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Speaker 2: I ever go puss.

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Speaker 3: Because now let's do the therapy. Now they are four

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00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:31,680
Speaker 3: other choices holding our hand up with five fingers.

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00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:33,920
Speaker 2: Every time you think of something that's upsetting that you

402
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:38,960
Speaker 2: think is the truth, somebody's something's working on the side

403
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:39,440
Speaker 2: of your house.

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00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:44,280
Speaker 1: Okay, that sounded like a weird fart. Didn't know it

405
00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:49,960
Speaker 1: sounded like a noise maker. Okay, so you hold up.

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00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,320
Speaker 1: Okay everyone, this is the rule of six.

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00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,560
Speaker 3: Rule of five. Okay, no, the rule of six. Sorry, okay.

408
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,399
Speaker 2: So number one is the negative thought so you're like,

409
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Speaker 2: someone died, and that's why we have someone died reason.

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00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,200
Speaker 3: I have a view, yeah, which I kind of enjoy

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00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,359
Speaker 3: posture loving courtly. Well, worst case you always explore the

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00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 3: worst case.

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00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,600
Speaker 1: So then the five is like, maybe they had a

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00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,280
Speaker 1: wonderful life with wonderful family. Maybe they're not actually dead,

415
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,920
Speaker 1: and maybe they were happy to let this move on

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00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,480
Speaker 1: to someone else. Stephen tell us the background of you

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Speaker 1: buying this. Did someone send it.

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00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:20,680
Speaker 3: To you or was like, well, no, I just found

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Speaker 3: it on eBay, but the the.

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Speaker 4: Person sent a letter.

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Speaker 3: Oh my good Han, so they're still alive.

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00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,280
Speaker 4: And it says, dear customer, please know I upgraded in

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00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,360
Speaker 4: bold at my cost your VHS ordered a first class

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00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,720
Speaker 4: mail because I consider you a first class customer.

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00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,240
Speaker 3: Congratulations, media mail I.

426
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,840
Speaker 4: Consider too slow. I also mailed it in a padded

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Speaker 4: mailer with free delivery confirmation. I hope you have earned

428
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:46,960
Speaker 4: I hope I've earned your five star feedback you have,

429
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,280
Speaker 4: and yes, if not, please message me on how to improve.

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Speaker 4: Thanking you Karen with.

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Speaker 1: An I yes, Karen, Karen, great job, Karen, I'm speaking

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00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,560
Speaker 1: of great job, and this isn't a present that's not

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Speaker 1: from me. And then I want to read the letter

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00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:03,960
Speaker 1: because it is this from a murdering Now the letter

435
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,200
Speaker 1: made me cry. Nice, but it's really self serving because

436
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,320
Speaker 1: it's because of something I said on the car.

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00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 2: Sure is that?

438
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:10,440
Speaker 4: Okay?

439
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 3: I feel like that's that's this is podcast?

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00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,840
Speaker 1: Okay, So da da da da, Karen, George Stevens Sisters,

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00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,399
Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan sending you a thing, but I

442
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:21,720
Speaker 1: never expected you, but I wanted to share with you

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00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 1: a very personal way in which your approach to the

444
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:25,520
Speaker 1: podcast inspired and motivated me.

445
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:26,640
Speaker 3: Can I just say one thing.

446
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 2: What if you're going to read a letter that's like

447
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:30,440
Speaker 2: slightly self congratulator.

448
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,399
Speaker 3: You can't skip through the beginning of their part, but

449
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,119
Speaker 3: it's long. Da you love me?

450
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:38,639
Speaker 2: Okay, well I'll read it.

451
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,480
Speaker 3: No no, no, no, okay, well I was gonna read

452
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,400
Speaker 3: the rest, so it does look long.

453
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,800
Speaker 1: Actually, in an early episode, Georgia was making a T

454
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,080
Speaker 1: shirt corner update. Karen mentioned how impressed she was say

455
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,640
Speaker 1: this is so dick by George's tenacity and follow through

456
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 1: and actually making the shirts a reality. And because remember

457
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 1: I was like, you don't have to be perfect, just

458
00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,919
Speaker 1: fucking do things, yes, which is my motto, And that's right.

459
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:02,920
Speaker 1: Georgia went to express how she just doesn't let the

460
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,200
Speaker 1: fear of messing up or not being perfect told her back.

461
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 1: She continued to explain the theory that people who make

462
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,240
Speaker 1: a quality work often don't even start, much less finish

463
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 1: making things because they're so hung up on being on

464
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:13,280
Speaker 1: perfection I fear of failing.

465
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,040
Speaker 3: It was a light bulb moment. This described me.

466
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,119
Speaker 1: I went to school for design, currently work in the

467
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 1: design industry, yet have been terrified of creating personal passion

468
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,560
Speaker 1: projects for fear that they wouldn't turn out quote perfect.

469
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 1: Gumption and willingness to start t shirts on this podcast

470
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,639
Speaker 1: despite things not always being perfect, No shit, it's so

471
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 1: encouraging to me with the mindset of fuck perfection.

472
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,360
Speaker 3: I successfully created a little bit of jewelry.

473
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 1: For you guys and all the other Murderinos out there

474
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 1: who want one. Inside the tiny envelopes, I'm passing them

475
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 1: to you and Steven, you get one too, even though

476
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 1: it's weird.

477
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:46,720
Speaker 3: You will find.

478
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 1: Fourteen, a solid fourteen care at gold Murderino script necklaces.

479
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 3: My first four into making jewelry.

480
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 1: I drew the script, figured out how to three D

481
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,960
Speaker 1: print said script for a mold, so a casting Place

482
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 1: made prototypes then lovingly put each one together by hand.

483
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,120
Speaker 1: They were all designed and made in New York City.

484
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 1: You guys get the first three because you.

485
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,200
Speaker 2: Inspired the whole thing. And I want to say thank you.

486
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:08,479
Speaker 2: I have Last Dailor so much.

487
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 1: I'm really proud I made them. Thank you all for

488
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,679
Speaker 1: pursuing what you love and for being authentic and hilarious.

489
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 1: Ty and my sisters, and I wish you all the

490
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 1: best happiness and success. Stephanie of the Sisters, Gambles and Sisters,

491
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 1: you can get it. It's Etsy, the Sisters, Gamble, g A, M, B,

492
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 1: L E P S.

493
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 3: Stephen.

494
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're into necklaces, but I know

495
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 1: you could rocket alongside the stash.

496
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 2: Hell yeah yeah, oh yeah, Stephen, you you will look

497
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 2: so nineteen seventy five.

498
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 3: Oh because it's gold. I mean, I have chest hair, live, love, laugh, listen.

499
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 3: Shave your chest hair into a mustache. Yeah, do it beautiful.

500
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 3: That's really lovely. And that makes me really happy because

501
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 3: that's so true.

502
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, just fucking do what you want to do.

503
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 3: You'll improve later.

504
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 1: It made me really, it made me really tear up

505
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 1: and proud of us. Yeah, just because I have us.

506
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 1: We we uh we said fuck it, yeah did it.

507
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 2: It's funny those ideas that seemed kind of simple for me.

508
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 2: They're like just Ted Talks that I've watched. It's like,

509
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 2: if you go onto the Brene Brown Vulnerability Ted Talk,

510
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 2: watch that, and then there's gonna be a bunch of

511
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:14,399
Speaker 2: other ones that are like perfection ruining shit, ruining creativity, this,

512
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 2: that and the other thing. You can like there's a

513
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,119
Speaker 2: whole philosophy of life that you can discover. I love that.

514
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that made me so thank you, Stephanie.

515
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 2: Thanks.

516
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: We got to Let's see my aunt turned actually turned

517
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,199
Speaker 1: Richard Speck into the police. Maybe we can save these

518
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 1: for hometowns I worked with Tricia Melee. Oh wait, that

519
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 1: person's aunt turned.

520
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 2: Wonder if it's the girl that went to high school

521
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 2: with him, that saw him in the Town and Country Center.

522
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 2: That weird fucking moan Sacramento.

523
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: Richard Speck was the one who killed all the nurses

524
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 1: in the Oh shit, I'm thinking Richard Chase.

525
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 2: Oh is that right? Richard Chase was a creepy Sacramento

526
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 2: Chase was the Sacramento the vampire. And you're that's Richard's Beck.

527
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, we should this is Georgia, Karen, Stephen, MEI, and Elvis,

528
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,399
Speaker 1: but we should also give a shout out to the

529
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: person who made you that cross stitch of the dogs.

530
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 2: Oh that's right.

531
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: And I want to say right now that Elvis is

532
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 1: at the doctor's because we have a new kitten named

533
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 1: Dottie and she got Elvis sick. And I love this

534
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 1: new kitten very much, but if she kills Elvis, I'm

535
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: going to fucking lose my How old is Elvis, Georgia,

536
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,400
Speaker 1: He's about to be thirteen, He's gonna be okay, okay.

537
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,680
Speaker 1: I hope my subject line grabbed your attention. You guys

538
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: are the best and make my hour long Chicago commute

539
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: so much more bearable. I've gotten countless friends and family

540
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 1: members hooked into listening by telling them the Mary Vincent.

541
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 3: And Sarah Brady stories. But anyway, onto my aunt story.

542
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 1: My aunt is Kathy O'Connor, and she was a nurse

543
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: at Cook County Hospital in nineteen sixty six. She always

544
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 1: talked about this case when I was younger, but I

545
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,640
Speaker 1: never realized how much of a connection she actually had.

546
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: I started reading the book The Crime of the Century,

547
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: which is about the Richard Speck murders and he killed

548
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: what a bunch of nurses in that nurse He went

549
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 1: into the nurses like and yeah, and one woman survived

550
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: by hiding. And in the chapter where they talk about

551
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: him trying to kill himself and then getting admitted to

552
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: the hospital, I see my aunt's name. Once I saw

553
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 1: her name, I immediately went to talk to her and

554
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 1: she told me the real scoop. She was the nurse

555
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: that treated him when he came to the.

556
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 3: Er that night.

557
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 1: In every report you're going to see, it says that

558
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: Leroy Smith was the one who saw his tattoo and

559
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 1: alerted the police. But after talking with my aunt this week,

560
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,880
Speaker 1: it was actually her that notified that noticed the tattoo

561
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: on is just from a picture in the newspaper. She

562
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 1: then told Leroy and he alerted the police.

563
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 2: Oh match, yep.

564
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: And since this was nineteen sixty six and my aunt

565
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: is a woman, she didn't get any of the credit

566
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 1: down with the patriarchy.

567
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 2: Am I right now?

568
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 3: You guys know the real story.

569
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: All in all, it's fine because Speck was captured and

570
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 1: was sentenced to life in prison, but it's still a

571
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: pretty crazy story and connection.

572
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 3: Thank you.

573
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 1: Guys for this amazing podcast. It's honestly made me more just.

574
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 1: I'm just like congratulating myself this whole time. It's honestly

575
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: made me more aware as a person when I'm out alone.

576
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 1: Next time you guys are in Chicago, hit me up

577
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: and we can do a ghost tour. Or you can

578
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: talk to my badass aunt much love, say sexy, don't

579
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 1: get murdered Mary Kay. Everyone in Chicago wants to give

580
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: us a ghost tour.

581
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 2: I love it. It must be a thing. Well because

582
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 2: they have H's holmes. They have so many mobs, like

583
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 2: the Mob's all that out there and stuff.

584
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 3: Okay, well listen, we're going to read some others that

585
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 3: we got.

586
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: That's that. The Hometown Murder episodes or the minisotes basically

587
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: are for those of you don't listen. So yeah, clearly, yeah, we.

588
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 3: Have to do We have so much ketchup, you man,

589
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 3: but I don't I feel like we don't have time. Yeah,

590
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 3: because we.

591
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 2: We Also, I think maybe we should do we should

592
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 2: do it next week too. We have to talk about

593
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 2: the r Kelly sex cults pecatively. It's crazy because I

594
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,640
Speaker 2: read the buzz the BuzzFeed article this morning it's so much,

595
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 2: there's so much detail, like it'll take us.

596
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 3: Let's talk about it next week.

597
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 2: Okay.

598
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 3: I have like a list of things I've been meaning

599
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 3: to talk about, but that one.

600
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 2: Is especially interesting because what really freaked me out is

601
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 2: R Kelly is touring.

602
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 3: He is even though he was so he was acquitted.

603
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 2: For fourteen counts of child porn. He married when she

604
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 2: was fourteen and he was like twenty something thirty, And

605
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 2: then there was a song called age is Just a Number, Yeah,

606
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 2: which is like, no, that's not true. But also when

607
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 2: you start reading these accounts and the way he's keeping

608
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 2: and controlling these women, it's unbelievable. And he's just and

609
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 2: he's like on fallon and he's like, you know, why

610
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 2: are they being in someone's funny video or whatever? But

611
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 2: I'm still okay with these people.

612
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: Chris Brown, I want to I know it's dated, but

613
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: I want to call that motherfucker out. Why does he

614
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: still have a career after beating the shit at a

615
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: rianma Rihanna.

616
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 2: It's because when you make people money, the people who

617
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,479
Speaker 2: get paid because of being making that money figure out

618
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 2: a way to make it okay. And that's what so

619
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 2: much of show business is and because people haven't had

620
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 2: a voice before, and what a lot of Like there

621
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 2: was a reporter at a really tragic quote that was like,

622
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 2: this story proves that young black women do not matter

623
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 2: to people in this country, which is really true. And

624
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 2: it's a thing that you know, we come up against

625
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 2: all the time when you're in talking about true crime.

626
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 2: This issue of the race of the victim and how

627
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 2: that story gets treated is a huge problem. And we're

628
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 2: learning as we go, but it is it's nothing that

629
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 2: we you know, like we're just doing our best, but

630
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 2: it is a it's a problem on this level. It's

631
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 2: a problem obviously in the regular media. It's how we

632
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 2: the story gets presented, where you go, well, this thing happened,

633
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 2: but it's okay, and the room goes great, it's okay.

634
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't you don't question your immediate thinking, your

635
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: immediate snap judgment, which I think is what we need

636
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: to start paying attention to, like what's my snap judgment

637
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: and then questioning that, yes, because that's my internal bias. Yeah,

638
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: that's why you're not ignorant, is you think for yourself

639
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: and try to keep on thinking and not shut down,

640
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: not fight, not fucking absorb or what is it called

641
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: take on whatever is being fucking screamed at you.

642
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, just like swallow whatever the story on CNN is

643
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 2: or whatever, but like actually try to whatever. We're all

644
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 2: doing our best.

645
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 3: Should we get to the murder?

646
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think we should. Okay, there's now a Twitter

647
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 2: account that keeps track of who went first, and I

648
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 2: swear to God it the first time I saw it.

649
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 3: Meme laugh Did you make it?

650
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 2: Stephen?

651
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 4: No?

652
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: Seems like I'm busy with so much of your other

653
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: bullshit that you guys make me do.

654
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 3: And I did use it to look up my God.

655
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 2: Nice.

656
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 3: Well we're hiring them instead of you, now, Oh that's cruel.

657
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 2: Who is it me? Yes? Okay, I go first and

658
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 2: we're back. And we talked about r Kelly for way

659
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 2: too long.

660
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 3: Never again, God, please can we not just know?

661
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: But what's interesting, though, is that there are new gay

662
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: SY victims that have been identified since this recording. Since

663
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, using modern DNA and forensic genealogy, additional GAYCY

664
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: victims have been identified, most notably Body five, confirmed in

665
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one as Francis Wayne Alexander and as twenty

666
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: twenty five five gaycy victims remain unidentified, with investigators urging

667
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: relatives nation why to submit DNA samples for comparison. You

668
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: can't submit DNA if there's nothing to compare it to, right,

669
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: So that's so important.

670
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 2: Right, There's always progress to be made. It's like as

671
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 2: the technology grows, people are like, Okay, now we know this,

672
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 2: Now go back and check that. Do we have something

673
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 2: in a filed you know, it's like the yogurt chop murders.

674
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: It's so funny that this is twenty seventeen, which we

675
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: hadn't even heard of genetic genealogy yet. Yeah, like it

676
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: hadn't started.

677
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 2: That are like everyone's hand was on the door knob.

678
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember.

679
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: They were just doing the thing where they would be like,

680
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: this is what the person may have looked like. That's

681
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: like genome typing. Oh and all they could do is

682
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: be like, this is a blonde guy, and it might

683
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: have looked like this based on his DNA. And now

684
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: it's like, this is the fucking guy.

685
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 3: This is the guy.

686
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 2: I love that.

687
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, should we just get into it your story?

688
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: Let's do it all right, here's Karen's story about Ellen Holbert.

689
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 2: So as we all know when I'm working and I'm

690
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 2: in the mix and in the mix, and I have

691
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 2: don't have a ton of time to do my homework.

692
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 2: What do I do? I like to retell you my

693
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 2: favorite I Survived episode. That's great, Okay.

694
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 3: Good, thank god?

695
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: No, can we stop for a minute, Karen, I'm gonna

696
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: need you go outside take notes.

697
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 2: See it.

698
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 3: Here's what's amazing to me.

699
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 2: So this one I remembered and we've actually talked about

700
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 2: it very lightly before, but it's one of my favorites.

701
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 2: And when I went to rewatch it so I could

702
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 2: just basic, I'm all the information is from this this

703
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 2: woman who's it's her story. I'm taking it directly from

704
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 2: the ICE Survived episode. This is basically like, if you're driving,

705
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 2: I'm telling you when I survived. So you don't have

706
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 2: to watch it, because it's exactly what I'm what. Everything

707
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 2: I'm talking about I got from the show. I tried

708
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 2: to watch it actually recently and it's hard. Yeah, it's hard,

709
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: and it's fucked up. Yeah yeah, so I haven't watched

710
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 2: a lot of these times. What I love about it

711
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 2: is it electrifies me with people sitting there telling this

712
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 2: thing that we only talk about third fifth hands, you know,

713
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 2: so far away, so distant, because.

714
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: We experience, we don't have the explanation of the victim

715
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: because they're dead in most cases.

716
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and these are people who got through it and

717
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 2: turned around and were like, this happened to me. It's

718
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 2: not my fault.

719
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 3: I got through it.

720
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 2: I'm not you know, I'm like, here's what I did

721
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 2: after and it's amazing. And they're eighty percent women. It's

722
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 2: and the women who are on it, I would say

723
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 2: eighty percent were raped in some way and left for

724
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,959
Speaker 2: dead in some way. Then there's just some man who

725
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 2: was like, well I took my tractor out.

726
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: Well there was one really, the one I watched, the

727
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: only episode I watched. There was a guy who was

728
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: in Haiti after Yes, and there was an earthquake and

729
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: he was trapped in the hotel elevator that fell upon

730
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: him for like eighty something hours.

731
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was incredible.

732
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, but otherwise, you know, he was there to fucking

733
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: help people, So it's not like he was like I

734
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: hiked into the forest and look.

735
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 2: Their survivor stories are important too, but it's it's interesting

736
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 2: to watch. If you're interested, watch it because you'll see

737
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 2: the difference of somebody that's like he held a knife

738
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 2: to my throat.

739
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: It's like they should make two shows and one of

740
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: them is these stories of getting lost and you know,

741
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: be on your boat or whatever and in earthquakes, and

742
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: the other should be it's like kind of paying tribute

743
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: to women who have been men who have been attacked

744
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: and right, yeah.

745
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 3: Okay, well, I mean they can do what they want. Yeah,

746
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 3: as long as they keep doing it.

747
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 2: So I have raised things to rely upon, not to

748
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 2: talk down, like yeah, look, hey, listen. Okay, So this

749
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 2: is what's amazing about this is it's season two.

750
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 3: Episode ten of I Survived.

751
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 2: It's the same episode as our friend Sarah Brady who

752
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 2: was pregnant nine who got attacked by the fake pregnant girls.

753
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 2: This is the best episode you've ever seen, the best episode,

754
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 2: my favorite my favorite girl. Well, this woman is on

755
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 2: the same episode as her. That's insane. I was thrilled.

756
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 2: It was like a star siding for me.

757
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 3: Okay, So this is this is Ellen Halbert's story.

758
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 2: Okay, okay. This takes place outside of Austin, Texas, in

759
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 2: an affluent area, I guess in the hills in nineteen

760
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 2: eighty six. September of nineteen eighty six. So Ellen Halbert

761
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 2: is in her forties, she's a wife and mother. She's

762
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 2: having a run of them mill morning. She's reading the paper,

763
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 2: she's drinking her coffee in peace and quiet. Her husband

764
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 2: is out for the day golfing, and her son is

765
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 2: at school all day, so you know, she eventually decides

766
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 2: to go upstairs and take a shower to get ready

767
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 2: for her day. She goes, she takes a shower, and

768
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 2: when she gets out of the shower, she grabs a

769
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 2: towel wraps it around her. She's walking over to the

770
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 2: closet to get a robe when she notices something in

771
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 2: the corner. Oh no, no, no, And what's in the

772
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:16,720
Speaker 2: corner is a five foot eleven man standing holding, she says,

773
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 2: the largest knife she's ever seen up above his head,

774
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 2: dressed like a ninja.

775
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,280
Speaker 3: Looking you fucking.

776
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 2: Like you'd be like this.

777
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:28,919
Speaker 3: My brain isn't working, she said.

778
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 2: She laughed out loud because she couldn't figure out it.

779
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,760
Speaker 2: She said she thought it was a joke. Couldn't figure

780
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 2: out what was happening.

781
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 3: I have chills right now.

782
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 2: Yes, it's like seeing a ghost, yes, but like and

783
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 2: also it's that thing where you know, sometimes I get

784
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:48,839
Speaker 2: I have like those weird floaters in my eyes where

785
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 2: everyone I'm like, is that a cat.

786
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 3: Having a seizure?

787
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 2: Karen, cat seizure, which is like some weird thing passes

788
00:35:58,160 --> 00:35:58,959
Speaker 2: in your eyeline around.

789
00:35:59,080 --> 00:35:59,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely.

790
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 2: You don't turn your head and expect to see a

791
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 2: huge cat standing there or what I mean.

792
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 3: But that's a little body. Yeah, you expect to see like, oh, weird,

793
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 3: I might have.

794
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 2: She didn't expect anything. She didn't even see anything out

795
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 2: of the corner eyes. She's just getting out of the shower,

796
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:15,320
Speaker 2: regular day.

797
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 1: Okay, horrifying. Every one is gasping in their cars right now.

798
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 2: Also, his in this ninja outfit, if you're not familiar,

799
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 2: every part of his body was covered. It was black pants,

800
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 2: black shirt, head wrap. He's also wearing gloves, so it's

801
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 2: just eyes and a knife. Basically in the corner of

802
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 2: her bathroom. Okay, he screams, get on the floor and

803
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 2: comes at her and they start to as she says

804
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 2: in the episode tussle, which is the cutest and also

805
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 2: reminds me of the movie Out of Sight j Low

806
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 2: and George Club.

807
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 3: That's scene in the bathroom. Those guys.

808
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 2: Anyhow. Uh So he pushes her into the bedroom and

809
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 2: he back hands her and knocks her onto the ground.

810
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 3: She gets up, he does it again.

811
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 2: She gets up again and sits on the edge of

812
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 2: the bed and because she's she says, she goes she's

813
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 2: basically naked except this towel. She pulls her knees up

814
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 2: to her chest to like try to get covered in

815
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,320
Speaker 2: as small as she can. And he walks over and

816
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 2: drags the knife across her feet, and he says, I

817
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 2: just want you to know that my knives are much

818
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 2: sharper than yours.

819
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: Oh my god, did he cut her feet or just

820
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,879
Speaker 1: kind of was like threatening her? It says, she said

821
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 1: drag across, so we don't know. So I would I

822
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 1: think she'd say cut.

823
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, anyway, you're right.

824
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 2: He tells her to look down and close her eyes

825
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 2: and not to look at him, and then she does it.

826
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 2: He takes his ninja mask off his face and wraps

827
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 2: it around her head as a blindfold, and then he says,

828
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 2: it's a shame you can't see. I'm half black and

829
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 2: half white, and I'm a very handsome man.

830
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 3: What a weird power move?

831
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. He starts asking her how much money

832
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 2: she has. She offers to drive him to the bank.

833
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 2: She says, she'll give you. She'll give him everything she

834
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 2: has in the bank. You know she's bargaining obviously. She says,

835
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 2: let me write you a check. I'll give you everything

836
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 2: I have. He says to her, you're gonna have a

837
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 2: bad accident, lady, Oh, thank god. Yeah. He holds the

838
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 2: knife to her throat. He binds her ankles and her

839
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 2: hands behind her back.

840
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,919
Speaker 1: And I just also say that if someone either lets

841
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: you see them when they're attacking you, or says to

842
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 1: you what they look like, then I would be like,

843
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 1: oh shit, I'm not getting away from this to identify him.

844
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, I think that's

845
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 2: very realistic here. So he starts to explain to her

846
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 2: what his deal is and basically says that he's been

847
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 2: hiding in her attic for two days. So he knows

848
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,439
Speaker 2: that the husband is golfing all day, and he knows

849
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 2: that the sun is gone all day. He knows no

850
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 2: one's coming for her, he knows he's not going to

851
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 2: get interrupted, and then he says, I'm going to rape you.

852
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 2: She begs for mercy as a Christian woman. He says,

853
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter what he does to her because no

854
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 2: one's ever going to catch him. So he says, get

855
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 2: back on the bed, and then he rapes her. And

856
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 2: when he's done, he goes and takes a shower and

857
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 2: he puts his ninja suit back on. So she now

858
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 2: is so scared that he's going to kill her, she

859
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 2: doesn't try to move, she doesn't try to escape. He

860
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 2: cuts her hands apart, he pulls off the blindfold. He

861
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 2: shows her a check that he's taken out of her

862
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 2: purse that he's written out to the amount of six

863
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 2: hundred dollars, and then he tells her to write his

864
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 2: name on the check, Troy Eugene Wiggley. He gave her

865
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 2: full full name to write on the check. What the fuck?

866
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 3: So she writes it.

867
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 2: Then he says to lay on the floor in the

868
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 2: bathroom in the fetal position, and she does it, and

869
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 2: she says she feels the right side of her head explode.

870
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 2: And what's happened is he's hit her in the head

871
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 2: with a hammer. Oh, no, hammer is always my nightmare.

872
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 2: It's so gross. Oh my god, her she feels her

873
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 2: head explode. Yeah, it's so descriptive and she doesn't know

874
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 2: what's going on obviously, Like that's the thing on that

875
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 2: show that freaks me out all the time. People get

876
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 2: shot in the head and they're sitting there telling their

877
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 2: story completely regular, like it was you or I and

878
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 2: they've been shot in the head, and when they describe it,

879
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 2: it's that thing where that because you don't know what happened.

880
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 2: It's like, all of a sudden, there was a weird

881
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 2: sound in my ear, like the way the personal experience,

882
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 2: that's why I'm obsessed with that show.

883
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 3: Yes, the personal experience of it.

884
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 1: I don't think I really understand, and that's probably what

885
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: the show is too. It's like I don't comprehend being

886
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: blindfolded and how specific scary that my speed, Like I

887
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: don't think about that part, you know, where it's like

888
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 1: you actually are not aware of anything in your life

889
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: going on and all you have are your thoughts, right,

890
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: you don't exactly experience it. I don't think about that,

891
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 1: you know, Like, yeah, that sounds I need to put

892
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 1: myself in that position and think about it.

893
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 2: Or you don't have to. Yeah, that's true, you don't

894
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 2: have to, Okay, I mean you don't know okay, all right,

895
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 2: I feel so obligated to put myself in these victims

896
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 2: shoes so I can.

897
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 3: Well, that's good.

898
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 2: I mean, it's about empathy, yeah, but it's just to me.

899
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 2: It's also just medically fascinating, like you would think if

900
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 2: somebody got hit, if you got hit in the head

901
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 2: of the hammer intentionally, you're not going to survive that. No,

902
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 2: and people do. People survive all kinds of shit. Yeah,

903
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 2: fucking crazy.

904
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 3: Okay.

905
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 2: So then he stabs her in the left breast. Oh no,

906
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 2: So then he hits her in the head again, stabs

907
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 2: her twice in the back of the neck. It's gonna

908
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 2: get worse, Okay, don't worry.

909
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 3: It gets worse.

910
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 2: Then he tries to I'll wait till you stop sipping

911
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 2: coffee because I'm gonna spit everywhere. He tries to stabber

912
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 2: in the skull, but the knife won't go in. I can't,

913
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 2: so he hammers the knife into her. All right, I

914
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 2: can't do this.

915
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: It's I also thinks that Vince is in the other

916
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: room listening to the song and he's horrified.

917
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 2: Vibe. There's no way he doesn't have the earbuds in.

918
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 1: That doesn't like true cross truth you're right, he's got

919
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: those headphones in.

920
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 2: But this is the thing about and I won't say

921
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 2: it again. This is the nineteenth time I've said it.

922
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 3: It's her telling the story. I know he's the one going.

923
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 2: Then he hammered the knife and do my skull. So

924
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 2: there's that part of it where it's a person who

925
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 2: went through this and came out.

926
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 3: The other side came out. Okay, oh Jesus.

927
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 2: Then one last thing.

928
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm here.

929
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 2: He tries to pull the knife out. It won't come out,

930
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 2: so he's shaking her head around. Your hand movement just now, Okay,

931
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 2: he's he's trying to get it out. He eventually puts

932
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 2: his foot on her head to pull the knife out.

933
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 2: She can.

934
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 3: She feels all this, but then she starts to go

935
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 3: out of consciousness.

936
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 1: Honestly, I'm kind of getting a little woozy right now, really,

937
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: like I'm sweating a little.

938
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's bad. It's a bad one.

939
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 3: Uh So she's going in and out of consciousness. She

940
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 3: doesn't know where he is.

941
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 2: She looks into the bedroom and he's standing there with it,

942
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,320
Speaker 2: and he doesn't have the ninja outfit on anymore, and

943
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 2: he screams put your head back down, so she stops moving.

944
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 2: She's like, and he comes and he pulls her wedding

945
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,439
Speaker 2: rings off. So she's like, oh, he's going to kill me. Yeah. Sure,

946
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 2: she's freezing cold, she's lost so much blood. But she

947
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 2: knows he's going to kill me, so she has to

948
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 2: do something. So uh, he walks away once he pulls

949
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 2: those rings off, he leaves, and she doesn't know where

950
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:57,879
Speaker 2: he is, but she decides she has to this whole

951
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 2: time she's been in the bathroom, Yeah, she's like, I

952
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 2: have to get out of here. So she pulls herself

953
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 2: along the ground out of the bathroom, through the bedroom

954
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 2: and pushes herself down a flight of stairs to get

955
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 2: downstairs to the phone. Oh my god. And she gets

956
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 2: to the phone. She what drove me insane when I

957
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 2: watched this for the first time? She called her parents. No,

958
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:20,800
Speaker 2: But I don't know if it's because it was nineteen

959
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,439
Speaker 2: eighty six, so maybe the nine one one system wasn't

960
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 2: in place. Yeah, maybe it was like so rule, or.

961
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 1: Maybe her brain just wasn't functioning rightly and the only

962
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 1: phone number that could come to her was her family's

963
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 1: like childhood home.

964
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 2: That would make perfect sense.

965
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 3: I remember mine still, but.

966
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 2: Oh, you get the area code too.

967
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 3: Shit, Well, whoever calls someone, No, don't call that, can

968
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:46,320
Speaker 3: you bleeve?

969
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 2: We're so proud to know our own I don't know

970
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 2: that we give out our social Security number.

971
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 3: Okay.

972
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 2: So basically she goes out of conscienceness for a little while.

973
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 2: The next time she remembers anything, she heard her father screaming.

974
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 2: He came in with the EMTs, so they all found

975
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 2: her kind of together. They load her up and she

976
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 2: hears two amts talking over her about how she's not

977
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 2: going to make it, and that's in her head. She's like,

978
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 2: I am too going to make it.

979
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 3: That's when she turned buck.

980
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, girl, it's so awesome, and she's just basically like,

981
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 2: this man is not going to take my life from me.

982
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:25,839
Speaker 3: It is not happening. That is amazing. So they get

983
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 3: her to the hospital.

984
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 2: She has so many stab wounds, she needs over six

985
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 2: hundred stitches. Oh my god, I think in the end

986
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 2: she ended up she he stabbed her over thirty times.

987
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 2: He was eighteen years old. Troy Wiggley was arrested at

988
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 2: the bank trying to cash the chest that he forced

989
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 2: her to write to him. He's convicted of aggravated robbery.

990
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:54,840
Speaker 2: He's sentenced to life in prison.

991
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 3: Oh thank god. Yeah.

992
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 2: I looked up his name, I looked up her I

993
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 2: looked up a bunch of stuff to try to find

994
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 2: out what that was about, because it sounds like one

995
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 2: of those things where if they didn't have evidence here

996
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 2: or there, they were just trying to get him on

997
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 2: something that stuck blah blah blah. But to me, it's

998
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 2: so insane. If she's been stabbed multiple times, yea, why

999
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 2: aggravated robbery is what he actually gets.

1000
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 1: Convicted on, right, because attempt at murder for some reason

1001
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 1: isn't treated it as murder.

1002
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 3: It's not murder, right, That's why it's not treated as murder.

1003
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 2: No, but that drives me crazy, I know, but it's not.

1004
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 2: I know.

1005
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 3: I know they have to be two different things.

1006
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 2: I know. I mean, they just do. But so she

1007
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 2: makes a full recovery, it takes her years of pain

1008
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 2: and hard work. She said she spent a lot of

1009
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 2: time in denial about what happened to her. She spent

1010
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 2: months crying. Obviously, who wouldn't. She had multiple surgeries for

1011
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 2: all of her wounds. She developed a lot of stress

1012
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 2: related illnesses that lasted for years because of the true

1013
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 2: her marriage crumbled, she was left without her job or money,

1014
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 2: but she was determined to come out on the other

1015
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 2: side stronger, what an amazing woman. So she realizes she

1016
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 2: has to get help, so she gets counseling and she

1017
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 2: joins a victim support grew amazing, and she decides that

1018
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 2: her first goal that she has to set goals for

1019
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 2: herself so she can recover, like she has to make

1020
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 2: it a step by step process.

1021
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 3: So her first goal is she's going to release.

1022
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 2: All the rage and anger that she has about what

1023
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 2: happened to her, because she.

1024
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 3: Realizes that's that's how she's going to get better for herself.

1025
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 2: And then she starts to speak out for victims rights

1026
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 2: and what needs to change in are what is what

1027
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 2: she calls our offender focused criminal justice system. In nineteen

1028
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 2: ninety one, she's appointed by then Governor Ann Richards to

1029
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 2: serve on the Texas Board of Criminal Justice and she

1030
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 2: did it for six years. It was an unpaid position,

1031
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 2: so while she was there, she started and it went

1032
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 2: from part time to full time, and she just started

1033
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:12,800
Speaker 2: doing all kinds of research on the Texas criminal justice system,

1034
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 2: on victims' rights, on rehabilitation for prisoners as opposed to

1035
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 2: just punitive you.

1036
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 3: Lock them up and throw away a key.

1037
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety six, both the Texas Corrections Association and

1038
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 2: the Texas Crime Victim Clearinghouse established awards in her name

1039
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 2: to recognize her work on behalf of crime victims because

1040
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 2: of her tireless advocacy for rehabilitation of offenders and her

1041
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 2: dedication to the victims rights. In nineteen ninety five, a

1042
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:45,839
Speaker 2: five hundred bed female substance abuse treatment unit was named

1043
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 2: after her. In nineteen ninety seven, she won the National

1044
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,800
Speaker 2: Crime Victim Service Award, the highest federal award for service

1045
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 2: to victims. In nineteen nine, she was named one of

1046
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:58,839
Speaker 2: Texas's Women of This Century Holy Shit. And in two

1047
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 2: thousand and one she was the media for a Court

1048
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 2: TV documentary called Meeting with a Killer, One Family's Journey,

1049
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 2: which was nominated for an Emmy in two thousand and two.

1050
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 3: How I why not watch that Court TV?

1051
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 2: Maybe it's just old, yeah, yeah. And Ellen Halbert is

1052
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 2: presently well, presently at the time of the article that

1053
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 2: I was reading, so it might not be right now,

1054
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 2: But she's the director of the Victim Witness Division at

1055
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 2: the District Attorney's office in Travis County, Texas.

1056
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,800
Speaker 3: What an amazing human being. Isn't that fucking nuts?

1057
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 2: That?

1058
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm trying to focus on that part instead of

1059
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 1: the other parts because I feel I think.

1060
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:39,839
Speaker 2: That's the point.

1061
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 1: I feel nauseous, like you a whole like, because it's

1062
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: so funny. How when it's a survivor, I feel like

1063
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,320
Speaker 1: we I think we're both in the mindset that like,

1064
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: don't get too disgusting and graphic when it's someone who's died,

1065
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 1: But when it's a survivor, you can explain everything that

1066
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 1: happened because they survived that.

1067
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 2: Well, and because it's her story, right, So it's the

1068
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 2: way she tells, right, and she wants tell it the

1069
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 2: way she did totally, totally, Yeah, that's how she wants

1070
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 2: it to be told. Yeah.

1071
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's insane and amazing and what a fucking

1072
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 1: inspiration and badass motherfucker.

1073
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 3: Yeah she's rare.

1074
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, Wow, that was incredible. Okay, we're back, Karen, Wow.

1075
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 1: Any updates.

1076
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,800
Speaker 2: The only update is that Troy Wigglely remains in prison.

1077
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 2: He was denied parol last year. His next review is

1078
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:37,400
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty seven, And I mean this era of

1079
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 2: me just repeating I Survived episodes, although I kind of

1080
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 2: love it because for me, I think it turned a

1081
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 2: corner for me in terms of how much better it

1082
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 2: felt to tell a story like that, And I think

1083
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 2: that it's interesting, like it's like, so we'd been doing

1084
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 2: this for like a year or so, and suddenly it's

1085
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 2: kind of like I don't want to talk about those

1086
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 2: things anymore, those hard ones totally, and then realizing like, oh,

1087
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 2: I love this show and I can just retell like

1088
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 2: Ellen's story from I Survived. She tells it so beautifully obviously,

1089
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:11,800
Speaker 2: and it's her story, but to be able to basically

1090
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 2: be like and she lived and she fought, and she

1091
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 2: you know, then gave back to women as like such

1092
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 2: a satisfying kind of new version of storytelling.

1093
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 1: You needed some hope in your true crime rather than

1094
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,799
Speaker 1: just like the bleakness, like for example, the story I'm

1095
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 1: about to do that has stuck with me.

1096
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,800
Speaker 3: Will never think about Girl Scout Camp again.

1097
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 1: Saying about thinking about this story the same, it's just

1098
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 1: so heartbreaking.

1099
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 2: It's time to listen to Georgia tell the story of

1100
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 2: the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders.

1101
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,800
Speaker 3: Mine isn't so good, great, Mine is not so positive.

1102
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell you the name of it

1103
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: because you're gonna fuck oops, you're gonna know it pretty quickly.

1104
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 1: And Yeah, June twelfth, nineteen seventy seven, nearly one hundred

1105
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 1: and forty Girl Scouts arrived at Camp Scott.

1106
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 2: Here we go.

1107
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 1: Amazing the Oklahoma Girl Scout Murder. This is so fucking awful. Yeah,

1108
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of stuff I didn't know about it.

1109
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: I think I've kind of known the murder part, but

1110
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 1: didn't know what came after it. So they arrived at

1111
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 1: Camp Scott, a sprawling, heavily wooded property southeast of Locust

1112
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 1: Grove in northeast Oklahoma, and the Girl Scouts have been

1113
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 1: coming to this spot every summer for fifty years, three

1114
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 1: months before camp was supposed to start.

1115
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 2: What just is there that idea fifty years of historical

1116
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 2: nine to eleven year olds in the woods. Yeah, it

1117
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 2: just immediately made me go, like, there's somebody that knew

1118
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,879
Speaker 2: they came back every year. There's somebody that like knew

1119
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:57,959
Speaker 2: the knew they would be there.

1120
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: At that time. Yeah, And I went to Girl Scout

1121
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:04,399
Speaker 1: Camp in a situation incredible, like probably exactly was Sam

1122
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: set up as this story in this camp, so I

1123
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: can picture exactly what happened.

1124
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 2: Sorry, I just remembered when I was doing Remember when

1125
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 2: I did that casino gig with Julian McCullough. It was

1126
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 2: in Oklahoma. Oh yeah, the woman who who was the

1127
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 2: booker for that casino, which was the best gig. It

1128
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 2: was so much fun and I'm so sorry I can't

1129
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 2: remember your name off the top. I we'll get it.

1130
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 2: Eventually drove me by the street you turned down to

1131
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 2: get to this girl's scout, which is now close I believe. Yeah,

1132
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 2: well maybe they turned it into something else. But we

1133
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 2: drove all around where she was like, want me to

1134
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 2: show it to you? And I was like, yes, I do,

1135
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:47,320
Speaker 2: want you to show it to me. But we couldn't.

1136
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 2: It was like too far. She was like, it's basically

1137
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:52,840
Speaker 2: over there because it's the middle of you know, big flat.

1138
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 3: I think there's like a long walkway. I think that's

1139
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:56,359
Speaker 3: called Cookie Lane.

1140
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 1: Three months before camp was to start, I think there

1141
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 1: having like all the counselors come and learn what they're

1142
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 1: going to be doing. April nineteen sixty seven, a counselor

1143
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 1: at Camp Scott had found that her tent had been

1144
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: ransacked and her doughnuts were stolen, and in the donut

1145
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 1: box and the empty box was a note warning that

1146
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 1: three girls would be murdered at the camp in the future.

1147
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 2: No.

1148
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like I'd never heard that before. Yeah,

1149
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 1: everyone wrote it off as a prank until so June twelfth,

1150
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven, first official night of the two weeks

1151
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:36,279
Speaker 1: stay at Camp Scott. The night is a big thunderstorm,

1152
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 1: so they don't have their usual activities. Everyone kind of

1153
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 1: just hunkers down into their tents, so they had like

1154
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:45,400
Speaker 1: it was like the canvas tent material, but like a

1155
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 1: wood floor.

1156
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's actually when I went to camp, that's what

1157
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 3: the tests.

1158
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, they called habins right that.

1159
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:53,320
Speaker 1: When I went to Girls Hout Camp, it was like

1160
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,879
Speaker 1: that too, And you're like shitty cot bed and stuff, Yeah,

1161
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:01,919
Speaker 1: with your itchy fucking what's it called sleeping bag.

1162
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all very uncomfortable, Like it's fun at first

1163
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 2: and then you're like, my bed is way better.

1164
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and taking a shower you're only about thirty second

1165
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:10,839
Speaker 1: showers suck.

1166
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:11,919
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1167
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 3: There was probably a drought at.

1168
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,319
Speaker 1: The time, and so they timed the showers and they

1169
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 1: literally shut off thirty seconds. It must have been like

1170
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 1: forty five seconds or something, I guess. Still Jesus, They're like,

1171
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:24,759
Speaker 1: we're teaching you how to conserve water, but seking you

1172
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 1: how to be dirty. Yeah. I hated it, so they

1173
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 1: hung her down for the night. It has no lights

1174
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:36,320
Speaker 1: in any of the cabins. They just have flashlights. So

1175
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:40,879
Speaker 1: ten eight is known as Kiowa and in that tent

1176
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 1: usually it was four girls to attend, no counsel counselors

1177
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:48,319
Speaker 1: in any of the tents. The three friends are Lori

1178
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 1: Lee Farmer she's eight, Doris Denise Milner who's ten, and

1179
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 1: Michelle Gussey who's nine. They're all from Broken Arrow, Oklahoma,

1180
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 1: which is a suburb of Tulsa and Kiowa. Their cabin

1181
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 1: was located the furthest from the camp counselor's tense. It's

1182
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:11,279
Speaker 1: about eighty six yards away and it's partially obscured by

1183
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 1: the shower for the camp, so it was like the

1184
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:14,320
Speaker 1: most remote cabin.

1185
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 2: And eighty six yards is like almost a football field,

1186
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 2: is it. I didn't know football field is one hundred yards. Yeah,

1187
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:23,839
Speaker 2: so it's like that's so far away it might be feet.

1188
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 1: I heard it was one of those things where like

1189
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:27,839
Speaker 1: in different articles, I read different things.

1190
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 2: Oh okay, it might be yeah, yeah, that happens all

1191
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 2: the time where you're reading this exact same information. But

1192
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 2: that happens all the time where it's like, is this

1193
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 2: person's name Jerry or James.

1194
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 3: Right, but it just changes per or someone had read

1195
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 3: it is like this is wrong, but I.

1196
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:45,320
Speaker 2: Wouldn't be, you know, the way those things are like

1197
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 2: set up to make them more like in nature, And

1198
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 2: eighty six feet is still a long way off from

1199
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 2: me responsible not even old, but there's probably sixteen year

1200
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 2: old girls who are counselors.

1201
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 1: So it's and you can see like they have a

1202
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,799
Speaker 1: layout online to show exactly where it is and it's

1203
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: absolutely on its own.

1204
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 2: So okay.

1205
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:10,279
Speaker 1: So that night it said there's a book called in

1206
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 1: the Camps called the Camp's Got Murders by cs Kelly.

1207
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 1: He says that two counselors had been frightened by two

1208
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 1: men at the camp that night, and some campers said

1209
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 1: they saw a man in army boots behind a tent.

1210
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 1: This there's so much pre shit. At one point thirty

1211
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 1: in the morning, someone hears moaning out near Camp Kiowa.

1212
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 1: Everyone's in their tent. Carla, a camp counselor. She checks

1213
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 1: out the noise and described it as a low guttural moaning,

1214
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:43,240
Speaker 1: but it would stop whenever her flashlight came near. Also,

1215
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 1: around two am, the tent flap of Tent seven is opened.

1216
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 1: Three of the girls inside are sleeping, but the fourth

1217
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 1: girl stated that she noticed a beam of light moving

1218
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 1: around the interior from outside, with a silhouette of a

1219
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 1: large figure behind it, and then she says the figure

1220
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 1: mof moved off toward ten number eight, which is Kiowa.

1221
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:07,440
Speaker 2: Nora just came back from camp, your nine year old

1222
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:10,200
Speaker 2: niece ten ten year old niece. I mean, this is

1223
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:13,600
Speaker 2: this is this is rough. Can you imagine Okay, well, well,

1224
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 2: imagine getting this call of your sister getting this call.

1225
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:17,920
Speaker 2: Don't imagine it?

1226
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 3: But no, I imagine things like that all the time.

1227
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 2: I know it's so hard. That's like that isn't that

1228
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 2: just the standard thing of.

1229
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 3: Like, oh yeah, for a while, I told you that.

1230
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 3: For a while, I couldn't.

1231
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:28,600
Speaker 2: Stop doing it. I finally had to call my sister

1232
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 2: and I was like, I can't. I just can't stop

1233
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 2: imagining something.

1234
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 3: But my sister goes, oh yeah, I do that all

1235
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 3: the time.

1236
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:35,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do it all the time.

1237
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, okay, She's just like do that.

1238
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 2: That's how it is.

1239
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's when you love a child.

1240
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 2: That's what happened.

1241
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 3: That's what that's part of it. I get it, so

1242
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 3: all right.

1243
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 1: Moaning sounds are heard throughout the night throughout the camp,

1244
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 1: and at around three am, a girl in the Cherokee

1245
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: section across the woods heard a scream coming from the

1246
00:58:56,040 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 1: direction of Kiowa cabinet, and it says it was located

1247
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:04,640
Speaker 1: about two city blocks away and she heard moaning. A

1248
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 1: girl in another cabin also heard a scream, and the

1249
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 1: scream the cries, she said, sounded like mama, mama, someone

1250
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 1: yelling mama, mama. I know. The next morning, at six am,

1251
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 1: June thirteenth, the camp counselor's on her way to the

1252
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 1: showers and she stumbles upon a horrific scene at tent

1253
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 1: near Tent eight.

1254
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 3: How old, she's probably six. It's a camp counselor.

1255
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 2: Oh sorry, So.

1256
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 1: The night before, somewhere between two and four in the morning,

1257
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 1: someone had cut his way into the tent.

1258
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 2: Here. It gets horrible.

1259
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, he bludgeons and rapes Laurie and Michelle. They had

1260
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 1: been struck and killed in the tent while they were sleeping,

1261
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 1: and they had been bounding, and then they bound the

1262
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 1: person bound in gag Doris and took outside, raped and

1263
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 1: strangled her as well. So then the two girls who

1264
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 1: were in the tent are like stuffed into the bottom

1265
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 1: of their sleeping bags, and their sleeping bags are pulled

1266
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 1: to where Doris is on a path about one hundred

1267
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:18,640
Speaker 1: and fifty feet away from the tent, so all three

1268
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 1: girls are left together on like a trail. Ghusey and Farmer.

1269
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 1: Sleeping bags had blood their bodies that were inside. They

1270
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:29,760
Speaker 1: had bloody bed sheets that had been used. The killer

1271
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 1: tried to wipe down the blood that was on the

1272
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 1: floor of the cabin, which is so weird. And they

1273
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 1: also found a roll of black duct tape and a

1274
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:40,800
Speaker 1: flashlight the murderer had discarded.

1275
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:45,840
Speaker 3: So waking, like was his blood in that blood and

1276
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 3: that's why he was trying to clean it up?

1277
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 2: Who knows?

1278
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, there was bloody bed sheets. It seemed like

1279
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 1: after the attacks he tried to cover his tracks. Yeah,

1280
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 1: which almost seems like he was panicking. Well almost, then, hey,

1281
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:00,920
Speaker 1: don't we your flashlights?

1282
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1283
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 1: It sounds like he was panicking, maybe can't realize what

1284
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 1: he had done, tried to fix it, you know. Okay,

1285
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:16,320
Speaker 1: So four days later, so police come, they you know,

1286
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 1: they fucked. They clean up the scene, and four days later,

1287
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 1: you know, is this insane manhunt that starts like the

1288
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 1: biggest man hunt in Oklahoma history. Four days later, police

1289
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 1: find sunglasses belonging to a camp Scott counselor and a

1290
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:34,920
Speaker 1: boot print print that matched the one found at the

1291
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 1: scene of the crime in a cave near the camp.

1292
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:41,440
Speaker 1: So they find that, and they also find a message

1293
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: written on the wall in one of the caves that

1294
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 1: says the killer was here, Bye bye fools, and then

1295
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:52,560
Speaker 1: the date six seventeen seventy seven. They also find tape,

1296
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:56,720
Speaker 1: plastic bags, plastic from a garbage bag similar to that

1297
01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 1: raptor on the flashlight found next to the girls, and

1298
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:01,800
Speaker 1: a newspaper from the same addition as the piece discovered

1299
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 1: in the flashlight and left next to the girls. And

1300
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: they also find two photos. They find two photos of women.

1301
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:14,640
Speaker 1: The photos are determined to be from the wedding of

1302
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 1: a prison guard and they're traced back to a man

1303
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:21,920
Speaker 1: named Jean Leroy Hart who had been working at the

1304
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 1: photo lab in Granite Reformatory and had developed the photos

1305
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 1: of the wedding of the prison guard when he was

1306
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 1: serving time for kidnapping and first to gate degree rape

1307
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:36,640
Speaker 1: convictions in nineteen sixty six. So he had these photos

1308
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 1: of these women, for some reason, left them behind and

1309
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:41,400
Speaker 1: they were able to trace them back to him.

1310
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 2: Okay, but they So that means he developed these pictures

1311
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:48,480
Speaker 2: because it was his job at the prison. Yeah, but

1312
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:51,360
Speaker 2: those pictures were never given to the prison guard.

1313
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 1: Probably made make copies of them for himself. Maybe there

1314
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:55,920
Speaker 1: were two pretty women and he wanted to keep the

1315
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:56,840
Speaker 1: photos of women.

1316
01:02:57,240 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 2: But it's not The prison guard is in the clear.

1317
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 2: He was not the prison girl.

1318
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:04,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we'll talk about Jean Leroy Hart. He's a

1319
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 1: thirty four year old Cherokee Native American. He's five foot ten,

1320
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 1: weighs about two hundred pounds. He's pretty built. He's like

1321
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 1: a thick dude. He's got black hair, brown eyes. He's

1322
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 1: born and raised in Locust Grove, which is right next

1323
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 1: to the camp.

1324
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 3: He was a high school football star. He was supposed

1325
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 3: to he was bright and popular.

1326
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:26,000
Speaker 1: One of his teachers said he just wasn't the kind

1327
01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:28,439
Speaker 1: of kid you would have thought would have turned out bad,

1328
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 1: but he was an immediate suspect at the time of

1329
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 1: the murders. He was on the run from police because

1330
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:38,920
Speaker 1: he had escaped jail. In nineteen seventy three, he was

1331
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:41,800
Speaker 1: twenty two when he was arrested and accused of abducting

1332
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:45,640
Speaker 1: two pregnant women from a Tulsa club, raping one of them,

1333
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 1: and he pleaded guilty and was sentenced to three concurrent

1334
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 1: ten year prison terms, which is ten years as we know.

1335
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 2: Three concurrent ten year terms is ten years ten years exactly,

1336
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:03,880
Speaker 2: which is absurd. He's paroled after for raping and kidnapping

1337
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 2: two pregnant women. He's paroled after twenty eight months. Hmmmm.

1338
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:12,640
Speaker 1: He's arrested again in nineteen sixty nine. This time he's

1339
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:16,240
Speaker 1: charged with four counts of first degree burglary, pleads not guilty,

1340
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:20,920
Speaker 1: he's found guilty and for this, this and his past crimes.

1341
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 1: Then he's finally sentenced to a maximum of three hundred

1342
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:26,880
Speaker 1: and five years in prison. Jesus, So you know that

1343
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:30,400
Speaker 1: judge probably was like a gas that he got out

1344
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:33,200
Speaker 1: so quickly for rape and kind of threw the book

1345
01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 1: at him, maybe guessing.

1346
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:37,120
Speaker 2: Maybe the only problem is that if he was set

1347
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:39,920
Speaker 2: up for the first one, then his I don't think

1348
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 2: that's the only problem. Well, I know you don't think

1349
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:41,959
Speaker 2: you would.

1350
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 3: Well, he pled guilty to that. I know lots of

1351
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 3: people I know, I know.

1352
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:49,919
Speaker 1: So he had grown up a half a mile north

1353
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:53,160
Speaker 1: of Camp Scott, and there were other suspects, including a

1354
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:54,960
Speaker 1: convicted rapist named Bill Stevens.

1355
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 3: The couple who knew A couple who knew Stephen.

1356
01:04:57,360 --> 01:04:59,480
Speaker 1: Said he borrowed a flashlight that matched the description of

1357
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 1: the one used left in the crime scene a few

1358
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:06,080
Speaker 1: days before the murder, and he showed up with what

1359
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 1: looked like blood on his boots. He told them he

1360
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 1: experienced car trouble in Locust Grove. He denied everything. He

1361
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 1: said he hadn't been in the area, and but a

1362
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:19,280
Speaker 1: scout at the camp testified that she had seen a

1363
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:23,440
Speaker 1: man who looked like him at the camp, but they

1364
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 1: still focused on Heart. The manhunt would go down as

1365
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 1: the largest in state history. Took an entire year to

1366
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:33,360
Speaker 1: catch him. He was just cave to cave, house to house.

1367
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 2: On the run.

1368
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 1: So they found him in April nineteen seventy eight. He'd

1369
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:43,360
Speaker 1: been hiding out in the area and each cave released.

1370
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:46,160
Speaker 1: Each cave had clues and evidence related to the girl

1371
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 1: Scout murders, so they know confirming to police that he

1372
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:53,480
Speaker 1: was their man. They also they found a mirror and

1373
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:56,680
Speaker 1: a toy pipe, which another counselor testified had been taking

1374
01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 1: from her tent. He went to trial for the murders

1375
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 1: and faced three counts of first degree murder. He was

1376
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 1: acquitted after just five hours of deliberation. So this whole

1377
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:09,520
Speaker 1: community of people, and so many people in the community

1378
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:13,000
Speaker 1: rallied behind him and thought it was a setup that

1379
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:16,200
Speaker 1: these the evidence had been planted, that he was a

1380
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:19,040
Speaker 1: good you know, a good kid. The of course Cherokee

1381
01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 1: Indians not of course, but they backed They didn't they

1382
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:24,920
Speaker 1: didn't come out as saying they thought he hadn't done it,

1383
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:27,080
Speaker 1: but they said they were giving him money for his

1384
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:33,400
Speaker 1: defense to support him because as an American and Native American,

1385
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:36,120
Speaker 1: they didn't think he would get a fair trial unless

1386
01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:40,640
Speaker 1: he had the money to represent himself, which obviously is true,

1387
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 1: but they said specifically, this isn't We're not saying we.

1388
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:45,960
Speaker 2: Think he's in a center guilty. They just wanted him

1389
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:50,880
Speaker 2: to have a fair trial, exactly right. So because probably

1390
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:55,440
Speaker 2: in that area. Right go to thing is if something happens,

1391
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:58,520
Speaker 2: why don't you go look on the reservation. Why don't

1392
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:00,760
Speaker 2: you go look at a Native America exactly.

1393
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:04,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, And all the other suspects that they had and

1394
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:07,280
Speaker 1: that are still around were white, so they just went out.

1395
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:10,440
Speaker 3: It seemed like they went after him. But he was acquitted.

1396
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:12,320
Speaker 3: Everyone in the courtroom.

1397
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:15,680
Speaker 1: Cheered, which if you read articles, the three families of

1398
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:20,760
Speaker 1: the three killed girls were just so devastated when people

1399
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 1: were cheering that he got off, of course, you know,

1400
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:27,600
Speaker 1: and the jurors ended up saying there were too many

1401
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:31,200
Speaker 1: loose ends, too many things didn't add up. One durer said,

1402
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:33,440
Speaker 1: none of us knew whether he did it or didn't.

1403
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:35,920
Speaker 1: We were shocked that they didn't have more evidence than

1404
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:40,680
Speaker 1: what they had, so they just couldn't convict him. But

1405
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 1: because of his previous jail break in his earlier crimes,

1406
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:45,720
Speaker 1: he was taken to prison to serve the remaining three

1407
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:49,280
Speaker 1: hundred years of his previous rape and burglary convictions.

1408
01:07:49,320 --> 01:07:50,600
Speaker 3: So he's taken in prison anyways.

1409
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:55,320
Speaker 1: Three weeks later, in nineteen seventy nine, at thirty five

1410
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:58,400
Speaker 1: years old, while jogging in the prison yard, he dies

1411
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:04,040
Speaker 1: of a heart attack. Uh, some people think he didn't

1412
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:08,919
Speaker 1: do it, or or that he didn't act alone. There's

1413
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:12,680
Speaker 1: physical evidence left behind the crime scene that was recovered

1414
01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:15,720
Speaker 1: during the autopsy that indicates that two offenders were involved

1415
01:08:15,720 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 1: in the crime, including two different knots being used to

1416
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 1: tie up the girls, which I think is obviously always

1417
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:22,640
Speaker 1: kind of a weird sign, right, and the girls were

1418
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:27,679
Speaker 1: separated and died in different manners. Evidence presented at Heart's

1419
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 1: trial that was used to rule him out included a

1420
01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:33,559
Speaker 1: footprint in the blood of the floor of the cabin

1421
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:35,760
Speaker 1: that is a size ten Heart's feet work closer to

1422
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:38,479
Speaker 1: eleven and a half. There's also a fingerprint on the

1423
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:41,040
Speaker 1: flashlight found at the scene that wasn't hearts, which I

1424
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:43,800
Speaker 1: don't think is that weird. You know, It's not like

1425
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:48,400
Speaker 1: one person would have held that flashlight period. You know,

1426
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:50,400
Speaker 1: there could have been a lot in life of the

1427
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:51,679
Speaker 1: flash right, yeah, exactly.

1428
01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:53,639
Speaker 2: Then.

1429
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:55,640
Speaker 1: A bunch of ds DNA tests have been done on

1430
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:58,519
Speaker 1: biological evidence from the crime scene since the murders. Throughout

1431
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:02,320
Speaker 1: the years, there's nothing conclusive that has come although in

1432
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine, so of five aspects of DNA tested

1433
01:09:07,560 --> 01:09:12,080
Speaker 1: from the scene, three matched some bodily fluids that were

1434
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:16,400
Speaker 1: taken from heart. Only one in seven thousand, seven hundred

1435
01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:20,240
Speaker 1: American Indians would match the samples of that fluid, but

1436
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:23,120
Speaker 1: because there were only three instead of five match that

1437
01:09:23,320 --> 01:09:27,639
Speaker 1: results were officially deemed inconclusive. But an analysis of sperm

1438
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:31,120
Speaker 1: samples showed that only points zero zero two percent of

1439
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:34,960
Speaker 1: the population met the characteristics contained in the evidence, and

1440
01:09:35,160 --> 01:09:36,200
Speaker 1: heart was included in this.

1441
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:36,840
Speaker 3: Wow.

1442
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:41,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's those numbers are way huger one in

1443
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 2: seventy seven thousand or whatever.

1444
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:46,320
Speaker 1: And if they had that technology in nineteen seventy nine,

1445
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:48,200
Speaker 1: maybe he would have been that would have been enough

1446
01:09:48,280 --> 01:09:50,200
Speaker 1: evidence for the jury. They kind of went on all

1447
01:09:50,280 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence because they had to because that's all they had, right,

1448
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:56,280
Speaker 1: which you know, it's almost like if they could have

1449
01:09:56,400 --> 01:09:58,519
Speaker 1: waited to have you know, a lot of times they'll

1450
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:01,360
Speaker 1: wait to have more evidence to bring him to trial.

1451
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:02,640
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1452
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:04,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you can't wait years.

1453
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:05,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, but he's in prison anyways.

1454
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:08,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the speedy trial, that's.

1455
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:10,920
Speaker 3: True, and the families wants justice.

1456
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't be like oh yeo across her fingers

1457
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:16,680
Speaker 2: that good science is coming. Also because back then I

1458
01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:19,160
Speaker 2: think they had no idea the kind of forensics that

1459
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:21,360
Speaker 2: we're going to eventually exist.

1460
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:23,920
Speaker 1: And sometimes they're like, like in the eighties, I feel

1461
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:26,680
Speaker 1: like they are finally like, well, this new technology is

1462
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:28,240
Speaker 1: coming out. A lot of times you hear on like

1463
01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:32,880
Speaker 1: forensic Files, let's wait until that technology has you know,

1464
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:35,479
Speaker 1: every every year, I feel like there's a new way

1465
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:39,200
Speaker 1: of testing some fluid or some stain that they weren't

1466
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:42,479
Speaker 1: able to do before to extract a different strain of DNA.

1467
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:44,040
Speaker 1: I don't know if I sound like I don't know

1468
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:48,720
Speaker 1: what I'm fucking talking about, but I mean, yeah, pretty standard, yeah,

1469
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:50,960
Speaker 1: not like science.

1470
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:52,960
Speaker 3: I think this is what we do.

1471
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:56,120
Speaker 2: We're just basically repeating what we watch on Forensic Files

1472
01:10:56,439 --> 01:10:58,960
Speaker 2: and other shows that tell us about DNA.

1473
01:10:58,880 --> 01:10:59,760
Speaker 3: Vague postulating.

1474
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:01,559
Speaker 1: And you know what's so interesting is in this trial

1475
01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:06,120
Speaker 1: they used things that are now discounted, like hair samples.

1476
01:11:06,160 --> 01:11:09,680
Speaker 1: They found a hair that they said matched him. There

1477
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:12,200
Speaker 1: was another thing that they found that they said matched

1478
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:16,160
Speaker 1: him that now wouldn't be admissible as a fiber probably fibers. Yeah,

1479
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:18,439
Speaker 1: that now would never be admissible in court. Yeah, so

1480
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's still kind of weird. Let's see members

1481
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:27,519
Speaker 1: of Heart's Native American family also accused the police of

1482
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:31,320
Speaker 1: going after Heart because he's a Native American. Many people

1483
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:34,639
Speaker 1: said that the sheriff of town was really vindictive because

1484
01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:37,880
Speaker 1: Heart had made him look bad for escaping twice. I

1485
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:39,880
Speaker 1: just fit and being on lamb so long. He was

1486
01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:42,559
Speaker 1: a lamb for four years. Yeah, which makes the sheriff

1487
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:44,599
Speaker 1: look really stupid. So he tries to throw the book

1488
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:44,880
Speaker 1: at him.

1489
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:45,160
Speaker 2: Wow.

1490
01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:48,599
Speaker 3: And a former prosecutor.

1491
01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:53,280
Speaker 1: Tried to turn the killing and Heart's arrests into a

1492
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:57,720
Speaker 1: position as a state Attenney attorney general and to write

1493
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:00,400
Speaker 1: a book about it, so for monetary gain as well.

1494
01:12:01,320 --> 01:12:04,600
Speaker 3: So that's kind of their proof that he was railroaded.

1495
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:08,519
Speaker 1: So after he died and thorities didn't pursue that many

1496
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:11,519
Speaker 1: other suspects after the killings of and I want to

1497
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:14,680
Speaker 1: say their names again because you know, they're kind of

1498
01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:18,360
Speaker 1: ignored her, So Laura Lee Farmer, Doris Denise Milner, and

1499
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:24,719
Speaker 1: Michelle Goossey. No other suspects were really pursued or arrested.

1500
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:28,840
Speaker 1: And then all the parents went on to do all this.

1501
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:32,439
Speaker 1: Of course victim's advocacy, they were all, you know, they

1502
01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:36,559
Speaker 1: all are interviewed and ended up being these incredible people

1503
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:42,240
Speaker 1: and doing good things afterwards. But when the sister of Laurie,

1504
01:12:43,400 --> 01:12:46,800
Speaker 1: when she went back to school after the murder her

1505
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:50,919
Speaker 1: sister two years after and after he had been acquitted,

1506
01:12:51,080 --> 01:12:53,240
Speaker 1: hardly been acquitted, she wrote a school and this is

1507
01:12:53,320 --> 01:12:56,040
Speaker 1: just so sad to me. She wrote a school paper

1508
01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:59,600
Speaker 1: and in it she said, one nation under God, inavisible,

1509
01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:02,720
Speaker 1: with liberty and justice for all, except.

1510
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:03,040
Speaker 3: For my family.

1511
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:05,080
Speaker 2: Oh no, I know.

1512
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:08,000
Speaker 1: And that's the story of the Oklahoma Girl Scout murder.

1513
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:13,640
Speaker 1: Ask isn't that sad? It's so sad these little girls.

1514
01:13:15,640 --> 01:13:18,040
Speaker 3: Also to me, it's just like that.

1515
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 2: Crime.

1516
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:24,160
Speaker 3: This is all I think about. Who knows what really happened.

1517
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:29,240
Speaker 2: Like the idea that someone hides in caves when they're

1518
01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:31,960
Speaker 2: on the lamb is the perfect way to set somebody up.

1519
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 3: To put shit in a cave.

1520
01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:35,760
Speaker 2: They'll find a cave. Why would you This is like

1521
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:37,840
Speaker 2: Jack the Ripper stuff. Why would you write on the wall.

1522
01:13:38,360 --> 01:13:40,840
Speaker 2: If you did this thing, you would cover all your

1523
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:43,000
Speaker 2: tracks and get the fuck out, Ye go writing on

1524
01:13:43,080 --> 01:13:43,400
Speaker 2: the wall?

1525
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:47,960
Speaker 3: Bye bye, motherfuckers. That's a date, putting the date a date?

1526
01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:51,840
Speaker 3: And like yeah, and so as you were taunting.

1527
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:54,160
Speaker 2: The police, unless you were taunting the police, or unless

1528
01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:57,120
Speaker 2: the police were trying to set somebody up to perfectly

1529
01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:00,320
Speaker 2: match what he'd already done in that kind of making

1530
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:02,479
Speaker 2: a murderer way, which is like, we don't like you,

1531
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:04,759
Speaker 2: we don't like your type. We're to take care of business.

1532
01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:06,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we've been trying to find you. We don't

1533
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:08,559
Speaker 1: have any more budget to put into this, but if

1534
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:12,840
Speaker 1: you're the child murderer and rapists, then we can put

1535
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:14,439
Speaker 1: all of our resources into finding you.

1536
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 2: It's the only problem I was just gonna say, the

1537
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:20,160
Speaker 2: only problem that I mean, obviously the thing that makes

1538
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:24,400
Speaker 2: me upset about that. Then if if that is what

1539
01:14:24,479 --> 01:14:27,599
Speaker 2: they're doing, if their agenda turns from finding the person

1540
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:31,120
Speaker 2: who did it into getting the person that has shamed

1541
01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:34,240
Speaker 2: them or whatever fucking problem there is, then we still

1542
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:37,320
Speaker 2: have a person who stabbed three nine year old girls

1543
01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:39,200
Speaker 2: with a fucking knife and raped them.

1544
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:41,559
Speaker 3: Walking around the world. Yep.

1545
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:43,400
Speaker 2: That's the problem to me. Yeah.

1546
01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:46,720
Speaker 1: So it's one of those cases where I don't know

1547
01:14:46,760 --> 01:14:49,519
Speaker 1: if he's guilty or not, but I could argue either way.

1548
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:52,439
Speaker 1: You know that the evidence was planted in the caves

1549
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:54,960
Speaker 1: or he was taunting them. You know it's I either

1550
01:14:55,080 --> 01:14:58,320
Speaker 1: one is plausible and then arguing like I hadn't thought

1551
01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 1: about what you said, which is, did he not commit

1552
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:05,240
Speaker 1: those rapes? If he committed those rapes, to me, it's

1553
01:15:05,400 --> 01:15:09,759
Speaker 1: obvious that he was also capable, you know, of this crime.

1554
01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:13,880
Speaker 1: And I also, I'm I'm leaning more towards him having

1555
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:19,799
Speaker 1: being more than one person who committed those crimes because

1556
01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:23,800
Speaker 1: of the ropes being different knots, because of yeah, them

1557
01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:29,760
Speaker 1: being separated and and being murdered in different ways. You know,

1558
01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:33,160
Speaker 1: two of the girls were immediately knocked unconscious and left

1559
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:36,599
Speaker 1: in the cabin and one wasn't you know, it's it's

1560
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:37,439
Speaker 1: it's weird.

1561
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:39,040
Speaker 2: It's all different like emos.

1562
01:15:39,240 --> 01:15:39,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1563
01:15:39,479 --> 01:15:39,679
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1564
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:46,240
Speaker 3: And they people argue that that how would how would

1565
01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:47,040
Speaker 3: one person.

1566
01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:48,640
Speaker 1: Be able to handle these three girls, which I think

1567
01:15:48,760 --> 01:15:51,880
Speaker 1: is a bullshit argument because two girls were unconscious, But

1568
01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:55,400
Speaker 1: not only that, we know that these predators can scare,

1569
01:15:56,439 --> 01:15:58,960
Speaker 1: especially small girls into obeying them.

1570
01:15:59,080 --> 01:16:02,519
Speaker 3: Or yes, Richard spec yeah it was eight I believe

1571
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:03,519
Speaker 3: off the top of my head.

1572
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:06,560
Speaker 2: And there's nurses, fully grown women who he got to

1573
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:09,519
Speaker 2: all stay in a room while he took them out

1574
01:16:09,680 --> 01:16:12,760
Speaker 2: one by one, raped and murdered them. And they can't

1575
01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:15,400
Speaker 2: like the woman who was hiding was just like you

1576
01:16:15,479 --> 01:16:17,840
Speaker 2: don't understand it was it was he had a gun

1577
01:16:18,120 --> 01:16:20,760
Speaker 2: and he kept being very soothing or whatever.

1578
01:16:20,840 --> 01:16:23,640
Speaker 3: So like that being able to control people when you

1579
01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:24,479
Speaker 3: are the attacker.

1580
01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:27,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, is I love when people argue that shit, we're

1581
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:30,000
Speaker 2: we're you fucking talking about We're not sitting Those people

1582
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:32,599
Speaker 2: weren't sitting on a couch drinking coffee casually.

1583
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:34,800
Speaker 1: They were They said, if you scream, we're going to

1584
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:36,920
Speaker 1: kill your family, yes, like, or we're going to as

1585
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:37,479
Speaker 1: simple as that.

1586
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:40,320
Speaker 3: We if you scream, all shoot your friend over here,

1587
01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:41,320
Speaker 3: that kind of stuff.

1588
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:45,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I hate that argument so that I think

1589
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:47,560
Speaker 1: you can't really but the other little things, like the

1590
01:16:47,720 --> 01:16:49,400
Speaker 1: different kinds of ropes, it's just.

1591
01:16:51,200 --> 01:16:53,200
Speaker 2: It just feels like if there's ever a murder that

1592
01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:58,800
Speaker 2: should have been solved, right, you know, three ten year

1593
01:16:58,840 --> 01:17:01,719
Speaker 2: old girls, a girl scout, they should have fucking figured

1594
01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:03,760
Speaker 2: out the best way to figure out who did that.

1595
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:06,439
Speaker 1: Well, I feel I know they're also doing more. They're

1596
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:09,760
Speaker 1: they're continuing the DNA testing so as it does get

1597
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:12,560
Speaker 1: more advanced, their true case is still open. Yeah, and

1598
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:16,559
Speaker 1: they are like sending different kinds of like the new

1599
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:19,439
Speaker 1: swabs they can actually test they're still doing that, so

1600
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:21,040
Speaker 1: there still might be an answer one day.

1601
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:23,000
Speaker 3: Don't you think it's possible?

1602
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:26,720
Speaker 2: Now? You know, I love to Devil's advocate and I

1603
01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:30,280
Speaker 2: love to go like, what is the thing that isn't

1604
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:32,680
Speaker 2: being thought of or something? Yeah? The idea that he's

1605
01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:36,000
Speaker 2: jogging in jail and dies of a heart attack at

1606
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:40,320
Speaker 2: age thirty five, yeah, is interesting to me. Now that

1607
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:43,160
Speaker 2: isn't possible. And there's some people that have congenital heart.

1608
01:17:43,040 --> 01:17:45,280
Speaker 1: Pross what they said. You know, he's got that runs

1609
01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:47,479
Speaker 1: in his family. He's just really out of shape. But

1610
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:49,360
Speaker 1: thirty five definitely then.

1611
01:17:49,240 --> 01:17:51,200
Speaker 2: And why is he jogging? Yeah? Oh he's gonna You're

1612
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:53,240
Speaker 2: gonna Now you're gonna get it all together once you're

1613
01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:56,479
Speaker 2: fucking in jail. Yeah, you know what, I got it.

1614
01:17:56,600 --> 01:17:58,160
Speaker 2: I'm gonna lose this last twenty pounds.

1615
01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:00,400
Speaker 1: That's definitely a good argument, And it's it's the thing

1616
01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:02,559
Speaker 1: of like, if that DNA does come back to him,

1617
01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:04,400
Speaker 1: which it kind of seems like it did in these

1618
01:18:04,439 --> 01:18:07,439
Speaker 1: other ways, people are going to say, well, it was planted,

1619
01:18:08,160 --> 01:18:10,679
Speaker 1: so any think unless it comes back as someone else

1620
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:14,400
Speaker 1: doing it, no one's ever gonna fully believe that he

1621
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:17,880
Speaker 1: and conclusively believe that he was the killer, right, you

1622
01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:18,360
Speaker 1: know what I mean?

1623
01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:20,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, but.

1624
01:18:22,040 --> 01:18:25,639
Speaker 1: Then hearing that he got acquitted is just so if

1625
01:18:25,680 --> 01:18:28,720
Speaker 1: you believe it was him, is so heartbreaking. And I

1626
01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:30,840
Speaker 1: think his family, the families all believed it was him.

1627
01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:32,920
Speaker 1: Of course they did girls, Yeah, they want.

1628
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:35,280
Speaker 2: To state it. But then but also it's that it

1629
01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:38,719
Speaker 2: makes me think of the Memphis the West Memphis three. Yeah,

1630
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:43,680
Speaker 2: when you have the perfect person who did it, you

1631
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:46,280
Speaker 2: want it to be over. Yeah, you want to be over.

1632
01:18:46,560 --> 01:18:49,120
Speaker 1: And you also want to show everyone that or you know,

1633
01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:52,200
Speaker 1: the police force and the FBI was there every you know,

1634
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:56,400
Speaker 1: that was a huge man hunt, uh for a year.

1635
01:18:56,880 --> 01:18:59,680
Speaker 1: You want to show that you have done your due

1636
01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:03,559
Speaker 1: diligeny and you caught the bad guy. Everyone can stop

1637
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:06,519
Speaker 1: being afraid because can you imagine you're for a year,

1638
01:19:07,040 --> 01:19:11,040
Speaker 1: this person who has no problem raping and sodomizing a

1639
01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:12,000
Speaker 1: fucking nine.

1640
01:19:11,840 --> 01:19:14,840
Speaker 2: Year old is on the loose. Yeah, in the neighborhood.

1641
01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:16,160
Speaker 2: Then I you know, you have to look at all

1642
01:19:16,160 --> 01:19:18,080
Speaker 2: the photos of the three girls or just these sweet

1643
01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:21,880
Speaker 2: baby angel like young sweethearts, and then I look at

1644
01:19:21,880 --> 01:19:24,120
Speaker 2: the photos of them with their siblings, and it's those

1645
01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:27,160
Speaker 2: poor you know, I feel so bad for the victim,

1646
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:28,280
Speaker 2: but the siblings too.

1647
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:30,080
Speaker 3: You know the rest of their lives must have been

1648
01:19:30,200 --> 01:19:32,480
Speaker 3: so horrifying.

1649
01:19:33,120 --> 01:19:36,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not something you ever get over, especially then

1650
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:38,519
Speaker 1: you go and have children and you see your own

1651
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:42,000
Speaker 1: nine year old daughter and you know, how can you

1652
01:19:42,080 --> 01:19:44,240
Speaker 1: imagine someone hurting that person?

1653
01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:46,160
Speaker 3: What a fucking monster?

1654
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:52,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, they've got to figure out a way, minority

1655
01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:57,519
Speaker 2: report style totally to figure out who these people are conclusively. Yeah.

1656
01:19:57,560 --> 01:20:00,160
Speaker 3: I feel like that's what I feel like.

1657
01:20:01,479 --> 01:20:06,320
Speaker 2: Instead of making for profit prisons, maybe people, it should

1658
01:20:06,320 --> 01:20:09,000
Speaker 2: be like, can we just actually focus on so that

1659
01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:12,080
Speaker 2: when these people exist in society, we figure out a

1660
01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:14,000
Speaker 2: way to find them and make sure they don't do

1661
01:20:14,080 --> 01:20:14,599
Speaker 2: this to people.

1662
01:20:14,760 --> 01:20:18,240
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, we brain scan them, and that brain scan

1663
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:22,280
Speaker 1: tells us what they're capable of, what they're lying about.

1664
01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:25,479
Speaker 1: Even if they're a sociopath, you can still see that,

1665
01:20:25,640 --> 01:20:29,760
Speaker 1: like what neurons fire when they're lying. Listen, if they

1666
01:20:29,960 --> 01:20:32,480
Speaker 1: have a memory of this crime.

1667
01:20:34,520 --> 01:20:37,479
Speaker 2: If their brains are see through their brains fish from

1668
01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:39,920
Speaker 2: way down deep in the deepest depths of the oce.

1669
01:20:40,040 --> 01:20:41,479
Speaker 3: What are their brains made of? Are they made of

1670
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:44,920
Speaker 3: goldfish crackers? Are they just a ton of tiny knives

1671
01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:45,240
Speaker 3: in there.

1672
01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:49,000
Speaker 1: If there are tiny knives and it's a tiny murderer,

1673
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:52,519
Speaker 1: is there a tiny murderer in the brain controlling it

1674
01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:54,080
Speaker 1: with controls?

1675
01:20:54,640 --> 01:20:57,080
Speaker 2: If there is, let's get rid of those people. Let's

1676
01:20:57,120 --> 01:21:01,040
Speaker 2: put them all on some kind of leper's island. This

1677
01:21:01,240 --> 01:21:05,200
Speaker 2: has been a serious waste of time. Thanks everybody.

1678
01:21:05,320 --> 01:21:09,800
Speaker 1: No one hasn't Maybe we'll change everything, will change nothing.

1679
01:21:10,360 --> 01:21:12,479
Speaker 3: No, there's lots of people working hard to change things.

1680
01:21:12,680 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 2: I think for sure. We hear from people all the

1681
01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:18,240
Speaker 2: time that are like, I'm going to fucking criminology school.

1682
01:21:18,880 --> 01:21:22,080
Speaker 3: I'm a victim's advocate, yeap all the time. Yeah, it's

1683
01:21:22,200 --> 01:21:23,600
Speaker 3: very cool, and I think like that.

1684
01:21:24,520 --> 01:21:28,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's that idea that instead of letting politics get

1685
01:21:28,240 --> 01:21:32,480
Speaker 2: in the way and money, let's catch child.

1686
01:21:32,320 --> 01:21:33,960
Speaker 3: Murderers, let's catch adult murderers.

1687
01:21:34,040 --> 01:21:38,200
Speaker 1: Let's like, let's catch child murderers before they child murder.

1688
01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:41,760
Speaker 1: But then we're getting into some real addictive right.

1689
01:21:41,920 --> 01:21:44,360
Speaker 2: Well, that is what my minority board is about, right,

1690
01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:48,320
Speaker 2: which is like, that's great graphics. What's the ethnicity about?

1691
01:21:48,439 --> 01:21:52,120
Speaker 2: And Tom Cruise at his best, Oh, for the fucking down. Hell,

1692
01:21:52,160 --> 01:21:54,920
Speaker 2: you guys who were younger, don't remember that Tom Cruise

1693
01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:55,679
Speaker 2: was a heart throw.

1694
01:21:55,920 --> 01:22:00,000
Speaker 3: You don't remember, it was twenty ten, seven years old.

1695
01:22:00,080 --> 01:22:04,559
Speaker 3: He Oh my god, that's seven years ago. Seven years I.

1696
01:22:04,640 --> 01:22:12,559
Speaker 2: Know, I know, I mean, this time goes by. Okay,

1697
01:22:13,040 --> 01:22:15,160
Speaker 2: we're back. What are the updates for this story?

1698
01:22:15,320 --> 01:22:15,559
Speaker 3: Okay?

1699
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:18,719
Speaker 1: So, reporting from twenty twenty two says that DNA tests

1700
01:22:18,840 --> 01:22:23,120
Speaker 1: done by the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation strongly quote

1701
01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:26,680
Speaker 1: strongly point to Jean Leroy Hart as being involved in

1702
01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:29,680
Speaker 1: the murders. This has led some outlets to declare the

1703
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:33,320
Speaker 1: case solved, but this DNA evidence is ultimately described as.

1704
01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:35,720
Speaker 3: Inconclusive, which is so frustrating. Yeah.

1705
01:22:36,080 --> 01:22:37,880
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty two, just ahead at the forty fifth

1706
01:22:37,880 --> 01:22:41,519
Speaker 1: anniversary of the crime, Hulu and ABC News released a

1707
01:22:41,760 --> 01:22:45,160
Speaker 1: four part documentary series entitled Keeper of the Ashes the

1708
01:22:45,240 --> 01:22:48,880
Speaker 1: Oklahoma Girl Scout Murders. It's anchored by actress, singer, and

1709
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:53,439
Speaker 1: Oklahoma native Kristin Chenowith, who in nineteen seventy seven was

1710
01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:55,920
Speaker 1: a young girl Scout and planned to go on this

1711
01:22:56,120 --> 01:22:56,679
Speaker 1: camping trip.

1712
01:22:56,920 --> 01:22:57,479
Speaker 2: Oh, I didn't know.

1713
01:22:57,560 --> 01:22:58,400
Speaker 3: That isn't that wild?

1714
01:22:58,560 --> 01:22:58,720
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1715
01:22:58,760 --> 01:23:00,720
Speaker 3: She wound up getting sick and not being able to go.

1716
01:23:01,680 --> 01:23:02,760
Speaker 2: That's incredible.

1717
01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:05,240
Speaker 1: I know, I haven't seen it. I'm definitely gonna watch it.

1718
01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:07,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, me too. In twenty twenty three, Cherokee.

1719
01:23:07,360 --> 01:23:11,240
Speaker 1: Novelist Faith Phillips revealed that a former Mays County sheriff

1720
01:23:11,720 --> 01:23:15,000
Speaker 1: told her he'd obtained a confession in the case. It

1721
01:23:15,120 --> 01:23:18,599
Speaker 1: reportedly came from an incarcerated man named Buddy Bristol, who

1722
01:23:18,640 --> 01:23:20,680
Speaker 1: said he'd been at the campsite the night of the

1723
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:25,200
Speaker 1: murders with several other men, and Phillips, obstensibly quoting her

1724
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:29,160
Speaker 1: sheriff source, says that Bristol claimed, quote, one of the

1725
01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:32,120
Speaker 1: other men murdered the little girls, and the other men

1726
01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:35,719
Speaker 1: who he named are still living in the community today.

1727
01:23:36,160 --> 01:23:40,160
Speaker 2: Oh my god. I mean that's bombshell information. And like

1728
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:42,240
Speaker 2: how do they figure that out? I don't know.

1729
01:23:42,280 --> 01:23:45,400
Speaker 1: It's so different than what the possible DNA says, Like

1730
01:23:45,479 --> 01:23:47,760
Speaker 1: it's almost like makes it more convoluted when it's like

1731
01:23:48,200 --> 01:23:49,680
Speaker 1: it could be this, it could be that. It's like

1732
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:52,120
Speaker 1: what we want a definite answer and there's just nothing

1733
01:23:52,160 --> 01:23:52,479
Speaker 1: to give.

1734
01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:55,479
Speaker 2: It feels like if the and correct me if I'm wrong,

1735
01:23:55,560 --> 01:23:57,640
Speaker 2: But like the directive when you told that story was

1736
01:23:57,680 --> 01:24:01,479
Speaker 2: all about how Jean Hart was like it felt like

1737
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:03,960
Speaker 2: they were like, this is the guy the end. So

1738
01:24:04,920 --> 01:24:07,280
Speaker 2: that idea that like those same people who did that

1739
01:24:07,400 --> 01:24:08,880
Speaker 2: then are going to come back and be like, hey,

1740
01:24:08,920 --> 01:24:10,560
Speaker 2: look we found some d and I that proved it

1741
01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:13,120
Speaker 2: right totally. Where it's like, yes, we want to be

1742
01:24:13,160 --> 01:24:15,800
Speaker 2: able to trust that source, but that is the source

1743
01:24:15,880 --> 01:24:17,599
Speaker 2: that did it in the first place.

1744
01:24:17,680 --> 01:24:21,280
Speaker 1: And what is strongly pointing to the person and being

1745
01:24:21,360 --> 01:24:24,640
Speaker 1: inconclusive mean like those two things kind of don't go

1746
01:24:24,880 --> 01:24:25,880
Speaker 1: together in any way.

1747
01:24:26,120 --> 01:24:29,040
Speaker 2: It feels almost like they're floating the gossip of like

1748
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:30,640
Speaker 2: it's still him, but.

1749
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:33,479
Speaker 3: We just don't strongly meaning what. I want to know

1750
01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:34,000
Speaker 3: more about that.

1751
01:24:34,240 --> 01:24:36,599
Speaker 2: I mean, it'd be interesting to know that. Yeah, it's

1752
01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:39,280
Speaker 2: so frustrating and also that is just it truly is

1753
01:24:39,400 --> 01:24:45,439
Speaker 2: such a nightmare story, just heartbreaking. Well, let's wrap this

1754
01:24:45,600 --> 01:24:46,000
Speaker 2: show up.

1755
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:48,640
Speaker 3: Let's do it. I love that. This is when I

1756
01:24:48,720 --> 01:24:50,240
Speaker 3: got Dottie, my sweet Dotty.

1757
01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:53,040
Speaker 2: Oh it's like a Dottie's origin story. I know.

1758
01:24:53,320 --> 01:24:56,640
Speaker 1: Dotty's like five, and Fluffy is shit and loves her

1759
01:24:56,800 --> 01:25:00,680
Speaker 1: crunchies and catgrass and she's just the absolute sweetest cat

1760
01:25:00,720 --> 01:25:01,599
Speaker 1: I've ever met in my life.

1761
01:25:01,640 --> 01:25:05,360
Speaker 2: She's always had like that good kind of like classic

1762
01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:08,800
Speaker 2: cat personality. Yeah, she's like I'm not gonna I mean, look,

1763
01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:11,040
Speaker 2: you know I'm Mimi's number one. I know you are,

1764
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:13,840
Speaker 2: but Mimi's spicy, Mimi spicy, and Dottie is sweet.

1765
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:16,639
Speaker 1: Dottie is so sweet she like won't even smack cookie

1766
01:25:16,680 --> 01:25:18,400
Speaker 1: if he's trying to play with her, which he always

1767
01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:19,960
Speaker 1: tries to play with her, and she's like, I've never

1768
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:22,519
Speaker 1: played with you. This is not going to happen. But

1769
01:25:22,600 --> 01:25:23,280
Speaker 1: I won't hate you.

1770
01:25:23,560 --> 01:25:25,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I'll be patient, but I'm not doing it.

1771
01:25:26,040 --> 01:25:28,320
Speaker 2: Get away from you, please, that's our girl. Okay. So

1772
01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:30,880
Speaker 2: originally this episode was called the Freshest.

1773
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:31,679
Speaker 3: Recording, which I love.

1774
01:25:32,120 --> 01:25:34,360
Speaker 1: But if we were naming it today based on something

1775
01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:36,760
Speaker 1: we said in this episode, perhaps we would call it

1776
01:25:37,720 --> 01:25:38,680
Speaker 1: Morning Positive.

1777
01:25:40,840 --> 01:25:41,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1778
01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:43,760
Speaker 1: I am not morning Positive anymore. I don't know who

1779
01:25:43,880 --> 01:25:45,040
Speaker 1: this Georgia was, but.

1780
01:25:45,760 --> 01:25:47,840
Speaker 2: I mean it was almost like, could I be different? Now?

1781
01:25:47,960 --> 01:25:49,880
Speaker 2: It's like me every year in high school being like

1782
01:25:49,920 --> 01:25:52,080
Speaker 2: I'm going to be shy this year, It's like, sure,

1783
01:25:52,200 --> 01:25:54,240
Speaker 2: I'm going to like the morning.

1784
01:25:54,160 --> 01:25:56,400
Speaker 3: Right, I'm going to get stuff done like people do.

1785
01:25:56,720 --> 01:25:59,080
Speaker 2: Can you imagine if that's what we started doing? Whereas

1786
01:25:59,120 --> 01:26:02,160
Speaker 2: like Ring Ring ten no or I wonder if like

1787
01:26:02,760 --> 01:26:04,719
Speaker 2: if we got it at the beginning of the day before,

1788
01:26:04,920 --> 01:26:06,759
Speaker 2: like the day one arrived.

1789
01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:09,000
Speaker 1: I would love to do it earlier than we do

1790
01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:12,120
Speaker 1: now because it's so disarming to drive here and home

1791
01:26:12,240 --> 01:26:16,080
Speaker 1: in other people's rush hour actual jobs. So it'd be

1792
01:26:16,120 --> 01:26:17,479
Speaker 1: great if we could do it at like one thirty

1793
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:19,000
Speaker 1: or two. But that would never happen. We would just

1794
01:26:19,080 --> 01:26:21,120
Speaker 1: keep pushing it and pushing it, like yeah, it just

1795
01:26:21,320 --> 01:26:21,960
Speaker 1: it wouldn't happen.

1796
01:26:22,080 --> 01:26:25,120
Speaker 2: What if instead we get you a briefcase? Remember back,

1797
01:26:25,720 --> 01:26:27,720
Speaker 2: I have one? What? Well, should we do the thing

1798
01:26:27,760 --> 01:26:29,320
Speaker 2: we said we were going to do six months ago

1799
01:26:29,439 --> 01:26:32,000
Speaker 2: and get briefcases to bring or I get one too?

1800
01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:32,840
Speaker 3: Can you find one?

1801
01:26:32,960 --> 01:26:34,000
Speaker 2: Can we and we'll present?

1802
01:26:34,080 --> 01:26:36,280
Speaker 3: Okay, tell me when you have yours and I'll bring mine.

1803
01:26:36,439 --> 01:26:39,000
Speaker 2: Okay, great, Okay, sorry, back to the titling. We could

1804
01:26:39,000 --> 01:26:42,439
Speaker 2: also do the title sincere vague postulating, which is what

1805
01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:45,400
Speaker 2: George just talks about what we do on this podcast

1806
01:26:46,560 --> 01:26:51,000
Speaker 2: as she tries to remember a description of a show

1807
01:26:51,080 --> 01:26:54,679
Speaker 2: she likes. It's a really good synopsis of this show.

1808
01:26:54,600 --> 01:26:55,679
Speaker 3: I stand by, yeah.

1809
01:26:56,120 --> 01:26:59,200
Speaker 1: Or we could do our own phone numbers, because we're

1810
01:26:59,320 --> 01:27:01,639
Speaker 1: so proud to know our own childhood phone numbers.

1811
01:27:01,800 --> 01:27:03,720
Speaker 2: If you want to dial my childhood number. I can

1812
01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:05,519
Speaker 2: tell you what. I can tell you both of them

1813
01:27:05,640 --> 01:27:08,120
Speaker 2: right now. Does your dad still use it? No, because

1814
01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:10,120
Speaker 2: he's on his cell phone. There's no landline anymore.

1815
01:27:11,120 --> 01:27:13,280
Speaker 3: Let's keep it a secret. Okay, you got to keep

1816
01:27:13,320 --> 01:27:14,680
Speaker 3: some stuff to yourself in podcasting.

1817
01:27:15,000 --> 01:27:17,599
Speaker 2: I've laid it all on the field and then run

1818
01:27:17,720 --> 01:27:21,040
Speaker 2: into the sea. Okay. That's been this week's episode of rewind.

1819
01:27:21,120 --> 01:27:23,000
Speaker 3: We'll say goodbye from twenty seventeen.

1820
01:27:26,800 --> 01:27:29,280
Speaker 2: I gotta go to work. Okay, that's right, to work.

1821
01:27:29,360 --> 01:27:31,320
Speaker 2: Oh my god, how is it weird? This is coming

1822
01:27:31,400 --> 01:27:32,559
Speaker 2: out in two hours?

1823
01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:34,120
Speaker 3: Yes, Stephen, sorry for the delay.

1824
01:27:34,439 --> 01:27:36,600
Speaker 2: I'm sure we're gonna get I'm sure Steven's going to

1825
01:27:36,640 --> 01:27:38,840
Speaker 2: get and already has gotten lots of messages when we

1826
01:27:38,920 --> 01:27:40,439
Speaker 2: were texting yesterday about is that.

1827
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:42,640
Speaker 1: Okay if we do it in the morning and Steven's like, yoh,

1828
01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:44,120
Speaker 1: what it's going to be lay and people get upset,

1829
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:46,560
Speaker 1: you know, we should let them know, and then we

1830
01:27:47,240 --> 01:27:49,320
Speaker 1: and then I said, okay, just tell them it's your.

1831
01:27:49,240 --> 01:27:53,880
Speaker 3: Fault, Steven, David, tell him that you did it.

1832
01:27:54,080 --> 01:27:58,479
Speaker 2: Davin told me, Am Elvis can't be out on this one.

1833
01:27:59,320 --> 01:28:00,799
Speaker 3: I know where's the kitten?

1834
01:28:02,160 --> 01:28:03,439
Speaker 2: So you can hit it in the face.

1835
01:28:04,439 --> 01:28:05,360
Speaker 3: No, it's gonna where's that?

1836
01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:06,800
Speaker 2: I was gonna make her me out?

1837
01:28:06,840 --> 01:28:09,479
Speaker 3: Listen. I love her, fucking dottie. She's an angel.

1838
01:28:09,560 --> 01:28:12,760
Speaker 2: Baby Wance Elvi. This is home. Hold good thoughts in

1839
01:28:12,840 --> 01:28:16,519
Speaker 2: your mind and prayers for Elvis for his quick recovery.

1840
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:18,840
Speaker 2: She can come back and eat cookies and me out

1841
01:28:18,880 --> 01:28:22,760
Speaker 2: with us soon and until we see you again, stay

1842
01:28:22,840 --> 01:28:23,360
Speaker 2: sexy and.

1843
01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:24,719
Speaker 3: Don't get murdered.

1844
01:28:25,479 --> 01:28:25,799
Speaker 2: Bye.