1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Frye. 3 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 2: And I'm Tracy V. Wilson. 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 1: So I was traveling with some friends recently, and while 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: some of us were chatting one evening, one of them 6 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 1: mentioned that they really liked the eponymous foods episodes and 7 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: they were like, it has been a minute since you 8 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: did one, and I was like, okay, So here we 9 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: are today. We're going to talk about sandwiches. So get 10 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: ready to maybe get hungry, depending on what your feelings 11 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 1: are right on what you like any of these sandwiches. 12 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: We're covering three sandwiches. The first is one I do 13 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: not like, the second sandwich I love, and the third 14 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: is my favorite sandwich of all time. It goes in 15 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: the Holly Fry Sandwich Hall of Fame as the best one. 16 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: So we're starting with Sloppy Joe's. Those are very popular 17 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: in the United States for some reason, which probably reveals 18 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: my feeling about Sloppy Joe's. We share an opinion on 19 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: Sloppy joe We could talk about it Friday. There are 20 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: contested origin stories about this dish being invented here in 21 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: the US, but one version places its origin outside the 22 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 1: United States. This is a sandwich that, as its name suggests, 23 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: is messy by nature. It typically features ground beef mixed 24 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: with some kind of a tomato sauce, and then that 25 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: mix is usually served on a hamburger bun. And there 26 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 1: are lots of variations and way to improvise with this. 27 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 2: Seasons can change up the. 28 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 1: Flavor a lot, and some folks like to add things 29 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: like onion or other minced vegetables. And three different places 30 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: claim the sloppy joe as their own. There's Sioux City, Iowa, 31 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: Key West, Florida, and Havana, Cuba. There's also a New 32 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: Jersey honorable mention that we will talk about. Yeah, that's 33 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: not incidentally the order we're going to talk about them in. 34 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: But it makes sense that the sloppy Joe pops up 35 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 1: in the United States in cooking in the nineteen thirties 36 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: because this was a time when money was very tight. 37 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: As a consequence, expensive ingredients like meat had to be stretched. 38 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: So meat loaf had been around since the late eighteen hundreds, 39 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: but the need to find ways to make protein sources 40 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 1: go farther in the nineteen thirties during the depression, led 41 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: both restaurateurs and home cooks to get a little bit 42 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: creative with ingredients mixed into meat to fillip hungry stomachs. 43 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 1: This also harkens back to our episode on Augusta Scofie, 44 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: who similarly found ways to stretch available ingredients in the 45 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: field when he was an army cook and then when 46 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 1: he was a chef during World War One and had 47 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: to figure out how to run his luxury kitchen at 48 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 1: the Savway Hotel in London without things like butter. We're 49 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: going to start with the non US origin story for 50 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: the Sloppy Joe, though, because it informs one of the 51 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: other this starts not with a man named Joe, but 52 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: rather Jose. Jose abili Otero was born in Spain in 53 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds. He moved to Cuba in nineteen oh four 54 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: and started working as a bartender in Havana. He worked 55 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: there for three years and then moved to New Orleans, Louisiana, 56 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:20,679 Speaker 1: once again found. 57 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 2: Work at a bar. 58 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: Right around nineteen thirteen, he moved south again to Miami, Florida, 59 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: worked in a variety of establishments until nineteen eighteen, and 60 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,239 Speaker 1: then back to Cuba. After working for a bar and 61 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: cafe in Havana called the Greasy Spoon for a few months, 62 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: Jose decided he would rather work for himself than someone else, 63 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: so he bought a grocery store that also had a 64 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: cafe and bar. That's a pretty standard setup, and according 65 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: to Jose's accounts, when one of his friends from the 66 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: US came to visit him in his new establishment, that 67 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: friend said, quote, why Joe, this place is certainly sloppy. 68 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: Look at the filthy water running from under the counter. 69 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: And from then on he was known as Sloppy Joe. 70 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: He seemed to embrace the idea of being known for 71 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: having a messy business, so much so that he renamed 72 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: the place Sloppy Joe's. In case you, like me, are 73 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: wondering where that gross water was coming from, it was 74 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: melting ice. Jose served a variety of seafood items in 75 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: his grocery. He had fresh seafood set out on ice, 76 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: and as that seafood ice melted, it slushed to the 77 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: floor and made kind of a mess. In nineteen thirty two, 78 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: the Havana Sloppy Joe's Bar released a cocktails manual so 79 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: that people could make the drinks from their cocktail menu 80 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 1: at home, and in that manual there is a brief 81 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: biography of Jose Abielioterro, who is shown in a photograph 82 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: portrait at the front of the book with the nickname 83 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: Sloppy Joe written under it. In the years of operation 84 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: of Sloppy Joe's, Jose added a lot of touches to 85 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: the place, including famously a sixty foot long bar. Early 86 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: in the Sloppy Joe establishment's history there was a sand 87 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: which called a Sloppy Joe on the menu, and this 88 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 1: was apparently a carry around version of either roba vieha 89 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: or piccadillo. Rope a vieha is made with shredded meats, tomato, sauce, 90 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: and various spices. Usually this is something you would eat 91 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: with a fork, but Jose put it on bread. Piccadillo 92 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: is a similar dish made with a ground beef, although 93 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: it often has a lot of other ingredients, but if 94 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: you put it on bread or a bun, does kind 95 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 1: of sound like the Sloppy Joe sandwich. And a lot 96 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: of people from the US started visiting Havana during prohibition 97 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: so they could get a drink and enjoy the climate, 98 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: and there were often celebrities lined up along that sixty 99 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: foot bar. One famous figure who loved Sloppy Joe's Bar 100 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 1: and sandwich was Ernest Hemingway, so much so that he 101 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: figured into the Key West version of the sandwich origin story. 102 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: When Hemingway was in Key West he lived there for 103 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: I think a dozen years, he convinced another bar, the 104 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: Silver Slipper, to rename itself Sloppy Joe's and put the 105 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: sandwich on the menu. The Silver Slipper was owned by 106 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: a man named Joe Russell, so the name Sloppy Joe 107 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: kind of fit again for someone who is cool with 108 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 1: being called sloppy, and he went for the idea. Joe 109 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: Russell had also been to Havana with Hemingway on a 110 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: number of trips, so it wasn't as though the author 111 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,359 Speaker 1: had to explain to Joe Russell who Sloppy Joe was 112 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: or what a Sloppy Joe's Sandwich was. Russell seems to 113 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: have pretty readily understood the appeal of both of these things, 114 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: and that informed his decision to change his establishment's name. 115 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: The Key West Sloppy Joe's did not really claim to 116 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: have invented the sandwich exactly. It still acknowledged the Cuban origins, 117 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: but it did claim to have perfected it, inventing the 118 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: American version. You can find out for yourself if you're 119 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: ever in the area, because it is still open and 120 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: the sloppy Joe sandwich is still on the menu, so 121 00:06:58,000 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: you can decide if you think that's perfect or not. 122 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 1: The third contender for the invention of the sloppy Joe 123 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: is a diner cook named Joe. This is the version 124 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: that's associated with Sioux City, Iowa, at the Old Tavern Inn. 125 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: This version has roots in another Midwest sandwich called the 126 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: loose meat sandwich. And this is kind of like a 127 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: burger in that it's made with ground beef or chopped meat, 128 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: but it's not formed into a patty. 129 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 2: And the cook named Joe. None of the Sioux. 130 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: City stories that Holly found included a last name, added tomato, sauce, 131 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: and some spices, and in what sometimes gets called a 132 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: tavern sandwich. Joe's creation became very popular with locals and 133 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: its reputation spread. Yeah, there are still places that will 134 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: call a sloppy Joe a tavern sandwich. 135 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 2: In the Midwest. 136 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: So the location that we're going to offer as an 137 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: honorable mention in this is town Hall Deli in Maplewood, 138 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: New Jersey. Apparently in the nineteen thirties, the mayor of 139 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: Maplewood visited the Havana Sloppy Joe's and had the sandwich 140 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: there and then asked the owner of the town Hall 141 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: Deli to make it based on his description. That version, 142 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: according to the Townhall Deli website, featured quote coleslaw ham 143 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: cow tongue, Swiss cheese with lots of dressing, and was 144 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: served on thin rye bread. That doesn't really sound very 145 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: much like a Sloppy Joe or Ropa vieha or piccadillo. 146 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: Town Hall Deli still exists. It has a variety of 147 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: what they call Sloppy Jo's on the menu, although to 148 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: me they all sounded more like sliced meat deli sandwiches 149 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: than a sauteed ground meat cooked with a tomato sauce. 150 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: So which of these stories is the real one? Maybe 151 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: all of them. It's completely possible that different people had 152 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: a similar idea around the same time, And there's also 153 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: a secondary aspect of the Sloppy Joe story and that's 154 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: the idea of canned sauce and convenience foods. For a 155 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,319 Speaker 1: lot of home cooks in the post World War two 156 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,599 Speaker 1: United States, products like Sloppy Jo sauce offered a shortcut 157 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: to making tomato sauce from scratch, while also being malleable 158 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: enough to doctor up into a more unique recipe. ConAgra 159 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: Foods and Hunts introduced the Manwich canned Sloppy Jo sauce 160 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty nine. It's pretty easy to find write 161 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: ups of papers in the nineteen seventies about how home 162 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 1: cooks might use sloppy Jo sauce. One from the Sacramento 163 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: Bee that ran on December sixteenth, nineteen seventy reads and 164 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: our apologies here to Italian listeners quote. A passport is 165 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: not needed to bring a profusion of Italian inspired foods 166 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 1: to your family table. A ready assistant is the new 167 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: canned Sloppy Jo pizza, sauce and beef, which lends itself 168 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: easily to spooning on burger buns, topping spaghetti, or making 169 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: a fast version of lasagna. The write up goes on 170 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: to share a recipe called Presto Lasagna was made with 171 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: sloppy jo sauce and cottage cheese. I have feelings schools 172 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: have often included Sloppy Joe's in cafeterias for the reason 173 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier. It's cost effective and it enables kitchens 174 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: to serve more meals with less meat. I also read 175 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: one note where someone had interviewed someone who was in 176 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: charge of decisions, such as, you know what gets served 177 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: in a school cafeteria, and she was like, we also 178 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: sneak vegetables in there, and the kids don't know, which 179 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,559 Speaker 1: I think a lot of parents do as well, So 180 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: perhaps the nostalgia of meals like this eton as a 181 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 1: kid has contributed to the survival of the. 182 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:38,839 Speaker 2: Sloppy Joe over the decades. 183 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,959 Speaker 1: The Havana Slappy Joe's Bar closed in the nineteen sixties 184 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: during the Castro regime, but in two thousand and seven 185 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: the Office of the Historian of Havana started a restoration 186 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: of this fabled watering hole as part of a larger 187 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: effort to restore Havana's old city, and after six years 188 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: of work, it reopened in twenty thirteen. 189 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 2: Now you can visit if you are in. 190 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: Cuba, and I will talk about it on the behind 191 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: the scenes because I have some quizzical dog question marks 192 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: about reviews of it. We are coming up on National 193 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 1: Sloppy Joe Day. If you're in the US, it's March eighteen, 194 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: So if you love them, go ahead and start making 195 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: your plans. In the meantime, we're gonna pause for a 196 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: sponsor break, and when we're back, we will talk about 197 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: a sandwich with a Kentucky origin story. If you have 198 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 1: never had a sandwich called a hot brown, you are 199 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,079 Speaker 1: in for a rich savor retreat. It's an open faced 200 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:43,439 Speaker 1: sandwich that's piled with roast turkey, bacon, pimentos or tomatoes, 201 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: and mornaise sauce. Mornaise sauce is our good friend beschamel, 202 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 1: but with Parmesan, romano or greere cheese added to it, 203 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: or sometimes combinations of those cheeses. Occasionally you might find 204 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: other cheeses blended in, depending on who makes it. And 205 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: once that sauce has spread a across the top of 206 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: the sandwich, the whole thing is broiled so the cheese 207 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: gets bubbly, and then it served. 208 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 2: As the name. 209 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: Indicates, hot, it is sometimes described as similar to Welsh 210 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: rare bit, although the main similarity is really just that 211 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: it's open faced and broiled, because there isn't a whole 212 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: lot of overlapping ingredients. Beyond that, the cheeses are different. 213 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: The hot Brown is named for the hotel where it 214 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: was invented, which was named for the businessman who built it. 215 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: That's James Graham Brown. Brown was born in eighteen eighty 216 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: one in Madison, Indiana. He attended public school, then went 217 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: to Hanover College and Purdue University. The Brown family moved 218 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: to Kentucky in nineteen oh three, and as a young man, 219 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: Brown went to work with his father in the lumber business. 220 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: Their eastern Kentucky operation grew over time, and at thirty seven, 221 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 1: Brown became the president of W. P. Brown and Sons 222 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: Lumber Company. Lumber was not the only business that Brown 223 00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:59,599 Speaker 1: worked in, and over the years he became one of 224 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 1: lieu of the Kentucky's most prominent businessmen, particularly through the 225 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: many construction projects named for him. In nineteen twenty three, 226 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: he built the Brown Hotel over the course of ten 227 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: months at a cost of four million dollars on the 228 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: corner of Fourth and Broadway. He was inspired in this 229 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: project by another Louisville hotel's success that was the Seal Box, 230 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: and Brown thought he could challenge the Sealbox dominance as 231 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: the luxury o hotel of downtown, and he was right. 232 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: The style of the Brown Hotel is Georgian revival. It 233 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: had sixteen floors and it opened on October twenty fifth, 234 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty three. British Prime Minister David Lloyd George was 235 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: the first person to sign the guest register. The Brown 236 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: Hotel quickly became the center of Louisville's social and cultural scene, 237 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: and Jay Graham Brown expanded his downtown presence by also 238 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: building a theater nearby. Eventually they also erected a medical 239 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: facility and an office building and a church. Since Brown 240 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: lived in the hotel, he'd essentially built everything that he 241 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: could need within walking distance. At night, in the hotel ballroom, 242 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: a band would play dinner dances from ten pm to 243 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: one am for the late night crowd, and often there 244 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: were more than one thousand people there on any givena evening. 245 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: This also is where the hot Brown was born. So 246 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: after the late night dancers had been entertained for a 247 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: couple of hours, the band would take a break, typically 248 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: right around midnight, and The hotel restaurants also stayed open late, 249 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: so the party crowd would saunter into those to order 250 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: a snack before the last set of the evening was played. 251 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: This was a very popular cycle of entertainment, and it 252 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: brought the hotel a lot of business in food sales 253 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: for a while. After a few years, the sameness of 254 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: the way the dance evenings that the Brown Hotel played 255 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: out left the city's nightlighte a little boared, so business 256 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: started to wane. 257 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 2: There were a couple of versions of how the hot Brown. 258 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: Sandwich was invented in this moment of lag in nineteen 259 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: twenty six and what led to its creation. One is 260 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: that there was concern about guests having grown tired of 261 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: the menu, so the need was seen for something new. 262 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: Another is that the executive chef, Fred Schmidt, was just 263 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: tired of sending out plates of club sandwiches and scrambled 264 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: eggs and ham to his late night diners and wanted 265 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: to make something new. Seems possible or even likely that 266 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: both of these were factors. 267 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 268 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: If you read accounts by people that were involved in 269 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: the whole thing, some of them put it one way 270 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: and some put it the other. 271 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 2: And I think probably both are the case. 272 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: The choices of ingredients for the sandwich were informed, according 273 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: to legend, by time of year. It was winter, which 274 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: meant that the hotel had turkey on hand because of 275 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: holiday celebrations. It's said that putting it on sandwiches was 276 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: kind of a novel idea, as the poultry was normally 277 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: reserved for more formal holiday meals. Rudy Suck, who managed 278 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: the Brown Hotel during the time the Hot Brown was invented, 279 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: told the story as a somewhat collaborative effort, noting that 280 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: he thought the initial plan sounded quote a little flat, 281 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: before Chef Schmidt said that he would put it under 282 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: the broiler to bubble the. 283 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 2: Cheese in the sauce. 284 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: The mader D's initial reaction to a stack of turkey 285 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: on bread with a white sauce was that it needed 286 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: a little color. To add that splash of color, the 287 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: bacon and pimentoes were added, although over time the hotel's 288 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: version shifted away from pimentoes to tomatoes. The dish quickly 289 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: became popular. It's remained a staple of Louisville and the 290 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: Brown Hotel, with a few gaps that we will talk 291 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: about for a century. James Graham Brown died in nineteen 292 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: sixty nine, and his legacy is a little bit of 293 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: a mixed bag. He was documented as being very anti 294 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: union and pretty racist. He did, not, for example, want 295 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: Kentucky to segregate, and he publicly stated that if a 296 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: union were to form at his hotel, he would sell 297 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: the whole thing. He also, though, gave generously to charity, 298 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: and when he died with no next of kin, after 299 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: having lived for decades in a small suite at the hotel, 300 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: he left his one hundred million dollar estate to the 301 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 1: people of the city, having arranged for numerous charities and 302 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 1: public works projects to be funded long term from his fortune, 303 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: with the wording of his will indicating that the money 304 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: was to be used to promote the well being of 305 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: the citizens and bring recognition to both Louisville and the 306 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: rest of the state. His foundation is still in operation. 307 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: It uses funds to invest in a variety of organizations 308 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: to promote economic prosperity, education, and quality of life. After 309 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: Brown's death, the hotel that had become a foundation of 310 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,959 Speaker 1: the downtown scene of the city faltered. It ultimately closed 311 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy two and was sold to the Jefferson 312 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: County Public School System, which used it as an office 313 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: space for the Bard of Education until it was purchased, refurbished, 314 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: and reopened as a Hilton hotel in nineteen eighty four. 315 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: Then it passed to the Camberly Hotel Company. Today, it's 316 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 1: managed by the eighteen fifty nine Historic Hotels Group, and 317 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: it's on the National Register of Historic Places. The Brown 318 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: Hotel today will happily serve you a hot brown almost 319 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 1: anywhere on the premises. The hotel, restaurants and bar have 320 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: it on the menu. You can have one brought to 321 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: you via room service. If you don't eat meat, there 322 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: is a vegetarian version available. I think it uses mushrooms 323 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: as well as a smaller sized version of the original 324 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: for anybody who finds the rich dish too filling to 325 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: eat a full size order. The Brown Hotel says that 326 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: typically they sell about a thousand hot browns each week, 327 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 1: although during the Kentucky Derby it is usually more like 328 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: three hundred each day and sometimes even higher. The hotel 329 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: also shares its recipe for the original hot brown on 330 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: its website, revealing that the more NAIs sauce served there 331 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,400 Speaker 1: does not include greere, or at least it seems that way. 332 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: The actual mornaise sauce recipe used in the kitchen of 333 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: the brown remains a secret. The official recipe does also 334 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: call for the crust to be cut off of the toast. Incidentally, 335 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 1: there are other sandwiches that are very similar to the 336 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: Hot Brown, particularly a Saint Louis dish called a Prosperity sandwich. 337 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: The Prosperity is almost identical but adds ham. It's also 338 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: popped up in the nineteen twenties. Yeah, it's believed that 339 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: this is definitely a take on the Hot Brown. 340 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 2: Nobody thinks that Saint Louis invented it. 341 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 1: And also, as a coda here, we mentioned two sauces 342 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: in this discussion that also qualify as eponymous food. So 343 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: we'll give you very brief explainers for these. First off, Bechamel. 344 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: It is named for Louis de Bechamel, Marquis de Montell, 345 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: who was the matra of the Duke d'Orleans in the 346 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: seventeenth century. He's believed to have had a hand in 347 00:19:55,880 --> 00:20:01,360 Speaker 1: its creation, or more specifically, altering and existing cream sauce recipe. 348 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: But that is argued by aficionados of Italian cooking history 349 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 1: because bechamel is the same thing as a Tuscan sauce 350 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: that preceded it, known as salsa koya, which is glue sauce. 351 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: The Italian origin story credits Catherine de Medici with bringing 352 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: the recipe to France. The other sauce we mentioned was Mournee, 353 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:25,440 Speaker 1: which uses bechamel as a base. Morne sauce has uncertainty 354 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: regarding its naming attribution. It's usually noted as having been 355 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: named after Philippe, the Duke de Mournai, but that has 356 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: been argued because he died in the sixteen hundreds, which 357 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: was long before Mornai sauce showed up in the early 358 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 1: nineteenth century, so it's possible that this was named for 359 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: someone else. There are a number of possible mornaise no 360 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,400 Speaker 1: evidence that they specifically inspired the sauce. Yeah, there are 361 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: definitely people where someone goes, hey, this is a Mornee 362 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: that was a fairly prominent person at the time this 363 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 1: sauce pops up, but there's never really a clear indicator 364 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: that they had any involvement in it. It is almost 365 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: time for my favorite sandwich segment, but first, we are 366 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: going to hear from some of the sponsors that keep 367 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: stuff you missed in history class going. All right, it's 368 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: time for a contentious one and the most delicious one. 369 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: The origin of this is either New York or Nebraska, 370 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: and either way, the ruben is made with corned beef, 371 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 1: souer kraut, Swiss cheese, and Thousand Island dressing on rye bread. 372 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: It's usually pressed or grilled. It is a poem of 373 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: sandwich perfection. In my book, I love this sandwich so 374 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,360 Speaker 1: much so. The first contender that we're going to talk 375 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: about as the origin is Ruben's Restaurant and Delicatessen in 376 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: New York, which was opened by a man named Arnold Ruben. 377 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: Arnold was of German Jewish ancestry. He was born in 378 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 1: Germany in eighteen eighty five. Teen thirties, the US Works 379 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: Progress Administration launched the Federal Writers Project, Folklore Project Life Histories, 380 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: and from nineteen thirty six to nineteen thirty nine they 381 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: collected stories for people about their lives. Arnold Ruben gave 382 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: his story on December eighteenth, nineteen thirty eight. Arnold Manoff 383 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 1: conducted the interview and also provided additional text that contextualizes 384 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:29,120 Speaker 1: who the interviewee is. Manoff's description of the restaurant reads 385 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 1: as follows quote. The restaurant can be briefly described as 386 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 1: an interior near Fifth Avenue designed to resemble the lounge 387 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: room of the Radio City Music Hall. Soft light, subdued lighting, 388 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: rich carpeting, and mister Ruben's stuffed fish mounted around the walls, 389 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,439 Speaker 1: a small bar near the checkroom, and a delicatess encounter 390 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: in the back. More detailed, this is the impression you 391 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: get of Rubens. You're walking up fifty eighth Street toward 392 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: Fifth Avenue. Suddenly the wall of ricktier left is ended, 393 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: and the periphery of your eye catches a huge pane 394 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: of glass curtained in cream folds and shrubberied formally. At 395 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: the bottom, a red blazing neon sprawls over the window. 396 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: Rubens typical. This is Rubens. Who is Ruben? That his 397 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: name should stand alone, without a word of explanation, without 398 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: even a first name, without a company or ink after it. Well, 399 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 1: all right, Ruben, twenty five feet long, five feet high, 400 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: on fifty eighth Street, right next to the Savoy Plaza, 401 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 1: the Sherry Netherland nearby Central Park, the Old Plaza Fifth 402 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: Avenue nearby Park Avenue a ritzy restaurant if you judge 403 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: by what you can't see from the outside. The form 404 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: that manaf filled out lists under Ruben's special skills and interests, 405 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: and this charmed me to pieces quote special skill at 406 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: concocting sandwiches, interested in fishing. The form also described our 407 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: as healthy and alive in the Broadway nervous tempo manner. 408 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: Arnold's statements and man Off talks about how he got 409 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: started as a peddler as a kid and eventually became 410 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: the father of the sandwich. He described the origin of 411 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: the sandwich quote, Well, I'll tell you about how I 412 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: got the sandwich idea. I owned a delicatessen on Broadway, 413 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:23,959 Speaker 1: and one day a dame walks in, one of the 414 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: theatrical dames, and she's down and out, I suppose, and 415 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,679 Speaker 1: she asked me for something to eat. Her name was 416 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,239 Speaker 1: Anna Silos. Well, I'm feeling sort of good, so I 417 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 1: figure I'll clown around for the dame. That's how it 418 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: all came about. I'm clouning for the dame. Well what 419 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: do I do? I take a holy bread that I 420 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: used to keep and grab the knife and you know, 421 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: clouding like, I cut it right through the bias. Then 422 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: I take some roast beef. I don't remember exactly what, 423 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: but anyway, I figure i'll put anything on. So I 424 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 1: take some meat and cheese and I slap it on. 425 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,439 Speaker 1: I put some spice and stuff, and I make her 426 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: up a sandwich. It was a foot high. Well, the 427 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: Dame just eats it, that's all. She must have been 428 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 1: plenty hungry. And when she gets through, she says, mister Ruben, 429 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: that's the best sandwich I ever tasted in my life. Well, 430 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,640 Speaker 1: the idea comes to me in a flash. I'll call 431 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 1: it the Anna Cilos Sandwich after the Dame. Then one 432 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: night she brings some friends up, you know, stage people 433 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: in a newspaper man and this guy he goes right 434 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: behind the counter and makes himself up a sandwich. And 435 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 1: then he tells me, why don't I call the sandwich 436 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,880 Speaker 1: after celebrities, like what happened with Anna Silos. Why don't 437 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 1: I call it the Ana Cilo Sandwich. Well, boys, in 438 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: a flash, I get the idea in a Silos, I'll 439 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: call it a Ruben special. And that's how it started. 440 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 1: Bless Tracy for reading that long quote I included for 441 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: a nineteen eighty five book called Craig Clayborns The New 442 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: York Times Food Encyclopedia. Arnold Ruben's daughter, Patricia B. Taylor 443 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: gave the following quote describing the sandwich's origin. It has 444 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: some subtle differences to your father's worship. It's us a 445 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: little shorter, she said. 446 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 2: Quote. 447 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 1: The year was nineteen fourteen. Late one evening, a leading 448 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: lady of actor Charlie Chaplin came into the restaurant and said, Ruben, 449 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: make me a sandwich. Make it a combination. I'm so 450 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,120 Speaker 1: hungry I could eat a brick. He took a loaf 451 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: of rye bread, cut two slices on the bias, and 452 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 1: stacked one piece with slice Virginia ham roast, turkey and 453 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: imported Swiss cheese, topped off with coleslaw and lots of 454 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: Ruben's special Russian dressing and the second slice of bread. 455 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 1: He served it to the lady, who said, Gee, Ruben, 456 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: this is the best sandwich I ever ate. You ought 457 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: to call it the Annette Seloast Special, to which he replied, like, 458 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: hell I will, I'll call it a Ruben Special, though 459 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: Arnold Reuben was very confident that he invented the Ruben sandwich. 460 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,959 Speaker 1: There's another contender which also has a good story, and 461 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:53,160 Speaker 1: that is Bernard Shimmel. This version is championed by Shemmel's granddaughter, 462 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Wheel, who first shared her family's story of the 463 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,400 Speaker 1: sandwich in the New York Times magazine. According to her, 464 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 1: her great her grandfather was a hotelier who opened hotels 465 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: along the railroad lines starting in Chicago and running west, 466 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: and her grandfather, Bernard, was also in the family business. 467 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,959 Speaker 1: In the nineteen twenties, Bernard often played poker with his 468 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: friends at the family's Blackstone Hotel in Omaha, Nebraska, and 469 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: one night one of the players wanted a sandwich. That 470 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 1: player was Ruben Koulakowski, and he asked for a sandwich 471 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: specifically with corned beef and sour kraut, though Shimmel dressed 472 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,120 Speaker 1: it up with Swiss cheese and dressing, which is arguably 473 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: what makes a Ruben Ruben. Sometimes, Ruben Koulakowski is given 474 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 1: credit for creating it, and that has also been complicated 475 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: over the years because Ruben's last name has sometimes been 476 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: shortened to k Kay in various retellings because the resulting sandwich, 477 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: though regardless, turned out so delicious Shimmel put it on 478 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: the menu at all of the family's hotels. 479 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,479 Speaker 2: Now this has led to impassioned debate. 480 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: The Ruben is to some a quintessential New York sandwich, 481 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: and Arnold Ruben's family story is that he invented it 482 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 1: in nineteen fourteen. There's no supporting evidence for that. On 483 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: the other hand, there are print menus and newspaper mentions 484 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: of the Shemel origin, but the earliest one is from 485 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty four on a menu from the Blackstone. This 486 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: is later than the New York version is said to 487 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: have been created, but it's the oldest primary source specifically 488 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: naming the sandwich still. Even the Ruben family's earlier story 489 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,120 Speaker 1: describes as sandwich that has ham turkey and coleslaw on it, 490 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: which is not exactly the Ruben sandwich as it's known today. 491 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: Either way, it's the Shimmel Hotel group that won acclaim 492 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: for the sandwich in nineteen fifty six, because that year 493 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: it was entered into the National Sandwich Idea contest by 494 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: a chef from one of the Shimel hotels, and it 495 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: won and it got written up in a lot of papers, 496 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: and it got to push into the national spot light 497 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: and it has been popular ever since across the country 498 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: and in my tummy. I love these episodes because I 499 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: have a lot to. 500 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 2: Talk about these saints, but. 501 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: Also because I got to talk about my favorite sandwich. 502 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 2: Listen, We'll eat a rubin any day of the week, Okay. 503 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: And now I have listener mate, which is also another 504 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: one about one of my favorite episodes, which is Advent Calendars. 505 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: This is from our listener Amy, who writes, Hi, Holly 506 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: and Tracy, I know you said you wanted to hear 507 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: about all the Advent calendars. 508 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 2: That is correct. 509 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: This past year I got my kiddo one from the 510 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: Exit Game company. They generally make games that you do 511 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: all in one sitting, and they take a long time. 512 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: We both have a hard time getting through that. But 513 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: the Advent Calendar had one puzzle a day and all 514 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: were tied into a larger storyline. There are multiple options, 515 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: and she wants to get one every year now she's fourteen. 516 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: So for anyone with a teen it's a super fun 517 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: way to bond and make time to be together every day. 518 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: They're not easy either. You definitely need the teamwork. Here 519 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: is a photo of it. Also, I don't really have 520 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: a pet, but here are some gorgeous cardinals I saw 521 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: in Hawaii. I think they are called red crested cardinals. 522 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: Chow and thanks for a fabulous podcast, Amy. This is 523 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: such a cool idea and when I had never heard of. 524 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: I feel like for people who love puzzle solving, this 525 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: is a really, really great one. And I do like 526 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: the idea that you bake in some family time during 527 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: the holidays when it's busy and it's hard to stop 528 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: sometimes and take a moment. These cardinals are beautiful. 529 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 2: Listen. 530 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 1: I'm a crazy bird lady at this stage in my life. 531 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: I feed the birds and watch them on my deck 532 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,959 Speaker 1: for hours. So I am very happy for cardinal pictures. 533 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: And these are very beautiful. They don't look like the 534 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: ones that we would see in the continental US that 535 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: are solid red. They are kind of a gray and 536 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: black with white chests, and then their head is a 537 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: spectacle killer shade of red. They're very beautiful, So thank you. 538 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: I'll take wildlife pictures as much as i'll take a pet. 539 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: If you would like to share your stories of wildlife pets. 540 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: Games Admin calendars, sandwiches. I hope we get a lot 541 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: of things about people's favorite sandwiches. You could do that 542 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: at history podcast atiheartradio dot com. You can also find 543 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: us on social media as missed in History And if 544 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,479 Speaker 1: you have not yet subscribed to the podcast, that is 545 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: so easy to do. You can do it on the 546 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app or anywhere you listen to your favorite shows. 547 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. 548 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 549 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.