Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, brocome back to the Bob Westset's podcast. My
Speaker 1: guest today is the Rascal himself, Felix Cavalier. Felix, great
Speaker 1: to have you here. That's great to see you. Great
Speaker 1: to see it's been a while. Just before we started,
Speaker 1: we're talking about the pronunciation of your last name. Yes,
Speaker 1: and you know many Anglo people will say Cavalier, You
Speaker 1: say Cavaliery. You were talking about the italianate version. You
Speaker 1: were talking about John Sebastan getting you in trouble. Tell
Speaker 1: us a little bit more there. Well, what I was
Speaker 1: saying is John Sebastian. You know, his real name is
Speaker 1: is Italian. His last name is Puis and he speaks fluent,
Speaker 1: fluent Italian. So we did a TV show back called
Speaker 1: Deja View, and he announced me the correct way CAVALIERTI, well,
Speaker 1: I have enough trouble. I lived down in Nashville. You
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Nashville. They stop at calv they
Speaker 1: don't even try the rest. I feel like calv It's
Speaker 1: it's not that hard. So you know, as I say,
Speaker 1: I'm proud of my heritage as most of us are,
Speaker 1: and should know. Yeah, most people, some people change their name.
Speaker 1: I never wanted to change my name. So why does
Speaker 1: the New York boy end up living in Nashville? Came
Speaker 1: down here on work, came down here many years ago,
Speaker 1: and uh, the first thing that happened is I started
Speaker 1: to see musicians that I knew. Stepping Wolf, Bobby Gaudio
Speaker 1: came down here later. I mean, it was amazing. Two
Speaker 1: of Bruce Springsteen's guys were here, one of no longer
Speaker 1: with us, Danny, you know. But uh, I said, what's
Speaker 1: going on down here? And they said, well, you know, man,
Speaker 1: this is the place, this is where you want to
Speaker 1: be for writing and for music. And I said, you're kidding.
Speaker 1: He said, no, this is true. That's why we're all here. Well,
Speaker 1: it is music city and there's no doubt about it. Okay,
Speaker 1: So when did you first come down and how long
Speaker 1: have you lived there permanently? I got here eighty eight
Speaker 1: on a permanent basis. When I first came down, I
Speaker 1: was on what they called the Caravan of Stars Dick
Speaker 1: Clark tour in nineteen sixty seven six, and I remember
Speaker 1: working here in the daytime and it was the hottest
Speaker 1: place I've ever been in my life because we worked
Speaker 1: in the afternoon. Never dreamt that I would be I'd
Speaker 1: be living here. But it's an interesting place for especially
Speaker 1: for musicians and also for bachelorette's. We are the bachelorette
Speaker 1: capital of the USA. Yeah, you know, I read about it.
Speaker 1: Why is that? Why is that? Because these people down
Speaker 1: here had an idea. They built a two million square
Speaker 1: foot convention center, and they they attracted, you know, the
Speaker 1: people that they wanted to come in. The convention here
Speaker 1: is the companies, the corporations, and one of them that
Speaker 1: they were interested was the bachelorettes. So they're here and
Speaker 1: I think the word is oi oi what vay? Oh
Speaker 1: my god, it's it's crazy. I mean, you know, they
Speaker 1: come down here just like you know, you can imagine
Speaker 1: at a at a bachelor party what happens, only they
Speaker 1: do this on the street in the open. They have
Speaker 1: these little these little carts that go around where they
Speaker 1: get loaded during the afternoon and clogged the streets up.
Speaker 1: And it's very interesting. Okay, So you came there in
Speaker 1: eight right, I certainly remember in the sixties and seventies
Speaker 1: when the South was perceived as red deck and Republican.
Speaker 1: Since you've been there, what is the change you've seen
Speaker 1: in you know, thirty odd years. You know. The interesting
Speaker 1: thing is this, I mean, obviously it's still a red state. However,
Speaker 1: their their their patches, like for example, the city of
Speaker 1: Nashville where so many of us have moved in that
Speaker 1: it's kind of like purple now, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not read anymore. So of course they're gonna change
Speaker 1: that instantly. I mean, they're gonna redistrict and they're gonna
Speaker 1: But I mean it's interesting because in the city of
Speaker 1: uh Nashville, you know, they have a Democrat, they had
Speaker 1: a Democratic administration. But in the rest of the state, no.
Speaker 1: But I mean, like I say, it's just really interesting
Speaker 1: because we're living down south. I'm living out south. So
Speaker 1: you go back, you're talking about the Dick Clark caravan
Speaker 1: and stars. Who else was on that tour and what
Speaker 1: was that like? Well, I'll tell you Paul Revere and
Speaker 1: the Raiders, my dear friend b J. B J. Thomas. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know it was. It was so much fun. I mean,
Speaker 1: those days are so different from now, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: uh we we uh we uh. Instead of being on
Speaker 1: the bus where everyone else is, we rented one of
Speaker 1: those RVs, you know, and we just you know, toured,
Speaker 1: and so when the bus went to the show, we said,
Speaker 1: we'll be right with you. You know, we take a
Speaker 1: little detour and go down and see some of the sites,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean I met my first wife on
Speaker 1: that tour. I mean it was just you know, we
Speaker 1: went to towns and cities that I never had heard of,
Speaker 1: you know, in my life, you know, and you know,
Speaker 1: in Kentucky and in Georgia and in Alabama, and you know,
Speaker 1: we cemented a relationship down here with the the audience
Speaker 1: because you know how they love soul music, R and
Speaker 1: B and basically you know, we were a white R
Speaker 1: and B band, so we we've always had a good
Speaker 1: connection with the South. Okay, So who else was on
Speaker 1: that tour and where were you? Were you the headliner
Speaker 1: or was somebody else the headliner? No, I I don't
Speaker 1: know headliner. I just know, you know, we we were
Speaker 1: coming up. We were you know, we had just had
Speaker 1: a couple of records hit, you know, and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: and you know, b J was there, Paul Revere was there,
Speaker 1: you know, and Mark Lindsay was there. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: of course with them. Uh and and I don't remember
Speaker 1: any of the other ones, But boy, I tell you
Speaker 1: it was it was a lot of fun. So how
Speaker 1: did you meet your wife? Your first wife? Well, it's
Speaker 1: it's just one of those things where somebody good looking
Speaker 1: comes to the show and you know, you hook up.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's that's very simple when you're when you're
Speaker 1: young and you know, ready to rock and roll. You know,
Speaker 1: it was really really, it was really great. Well let's
Speaker 1: start with the first question, because now they're smartphone cameras
Speaker 1: and it's change going on the road completely. Oh yes,
Speaker 1: But for decades before that, young men went on the road,
Speaker 1: did a lot of drugs, screwed a lot women. What
Speaker 1: was your experience because you were at the beginning of Oh,
Speaker 1: you know, I always remember Eddie Murphy when he started
Speaker 1: talking about like, you know, in his day he could
Speaker 1: do with these things without you know, exploding. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you remember that bit he did. It was
Speaker 1: very it was wide open in those days, you know,
Speaker 1: the the uh summer of love so to speak, that
Speaker 1: we talked about. I mean I mentioned that all the time.
Speaker 1: It was really very very open in terms of you know,
Speaker 1: like relationships with women of course, and with you know,
Speaker 1: like of course, the drug situation. But it was all
Speaker 1: kind of like in the beginning, it was very innocent,
Speaker 1: you know, And and so I mean seriously, I mean
Speaker 1: I remember working in California. When we first went to California,
Speaker 1: we worked at the uh the Whiskey a go Go,
Speaker 1: and there was a little place probably still there called
Speaker 1: a Tropicana Motel, which is all we could have. Actually, no,
Speaker 1: they tore it down with Duke's Coffee, you know, Yes,
Speaker 1: legendary place, but they finally tore it down. And you know,
Speaker 1: the point I was trying to make is that in evening,
Speaker 1: when the sun goes down, there would be a knock
Speaker 1: on the door and there would be sometimes this lovely
Speaker 1: lady coming over and saying, can I stay here? I
Speaker 1: got no place to stay? And you know, like you're
Speaker 1: saying to yourself, am I dreaming? You know, so I
Speaker 1: must be dreaming. But nowadays you wouldn't even open the door,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, you know, it would be well,
Speaker 1: let's see what do you want with me? Harm what
Speaker 1: do you what are you thinking here? Oh my god?
Speaker 1: It was so different, you know, and you know it
Speaker 1: less legendary. You know, when they did the Ultamont you know,
Speaker 1: when the drugs started to become more serious and more
Speaker 1: more deadly, more dangerous. Then of course, the the the
Speaker 1: the the kind of naivete just kind of disappear. You know,
Speaker 1: it went away, and you know it stayed away, so
Speaker 1: you let the girl in, of course I did. Let's
Speaker 1: also talk about drugs, because at first you were innocent.
Speaker 1: What was your career in shall we say illegal drugs? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting that you know a lot of
Speaker 1: us uh emulate people that we admire, you know, and
Speaker 1: with all due respect people that I admire, we're doing drugs. Uh.
Speaker 1: For example, Ray Charles. Uh So I was in the
Speaker 1: impression that, you know, wow, if if you want to
Speaker 1: be Ray Charles, you gotta you gotta do some things,
Speaker 1: you know. And uh, what started off as an innocent
Speaker 1: kind of like interest, you know, got to a point
Speaker 1: where it might be dangerous. And and then, uh, as
Speaker 1: I say, and you know in my book, I joined
Speaker 1: the Joey D and the Starlighters and Joey D's band.
Speaker 1: They were a lot older than I was. I mean,
Speaker 1: they were obviously more mature and more into the so
Speaker 1: when they started you know, getting me involved with let
Speaker 1: sat marijuana, I couldn't find my feet, I couldn't tie
Speaker 1: my shoes with it was I mean, it was like
Speaker 1: a different thing, you know. Uh, it was strong, and
Speaker 1: you know, in those days, people were really really careful
Speaker 1: about even leaving a little seed around, you know, because
Speaker 1: it was so illegal. You know. Now you go to
Speaker 1: the store and you buy it. But fortunately, you know,
Speaker 1: I got off that ship when I met my guru,
Speaker 1: when I met my Swamy, Sacha dan Nanda, I realized, uh,
Speaker 1: this is not gonna work. And you know, it's really
Speaker 1: interesting because you go through I'm sure a lot of
Speaker 1: the people know how the transition between can I go
Speaker 1: on stage straight and be good? You're doing right? You can,
Speaker 1: but you don't know that because you have these crutches,
Speaker 1: you know. So it was it interesting. You know, it
Speaker 1: was a learning experience for me, and I'm sure for
Speaker 1: a lot of people. Did you do anything more significant
Speaker 1: than marijuana and hash, cocaine, heroin? Well, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: in those days, uh, you know, we would go to
Speaker 1: for example, of San Francisco and some of these people say, hey, man,
Speaker 1: I just made this. You want to try it now?
Speaker 1: I'm high for three days. So but you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: we I really did because I don't know if people
Speaker 1: understand the experimenting stage that a lot of us in
Speaker 1: the sixties were, you know, we were fearless. Most most
Speaker 1: young people are feelers, you know, and uh, we just
Speaker 1: wanted to explore the universe, you know, explore the cosmic
Speaker 1: kind of like air up there. And you know I
Speaker 1: wouldn't do it again, I mean honestly, but uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I wasn't afraid, so I tried it, tried things, you know,
Speaker 1: nothing really I never got I never liked being sad
Speaker 1: or down, so I never did any of those things. Okay,
Speaker 1: So then the question becomes writing, were drugs beneficial, irrelevant, inspirational?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I really don't know. I
Speaker 1: think that you know, as I say, when when you
Speaker 1: try to do things without any kind of like stimulus,
Speaker 1: you know, like I g Allan Poe, I mean, you
Speaker 1: know the classic you know what he did, you know,
Speaker 1: probably was cocaine. If I'm not mistaken to write, it's
Speaker 1: not necessary to do that. The whole thing, you know, basically,
Speaker 1: when when people create is they get into a places
Speaker 1: it's sort of like a meditative state. It's sort of
Speaker 1: like a dream like state, which if you can induce
Speaker 1: without you know, external you know, or internal stimulus, you
Speaker 1: can do the same thing. But a lot of people
Speaker 1: that can't stop, you know, the so called monkey mind,
Speaker 1: you know, so they need something to chill, you know,
Speaker 1: something to get to that place. Fortunately, I've always been
Speaker 1: able to get to that place because as a young boy, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I was studying classical piano, and I had
Speaker 1: you know, a piano in my home, and and and
Speaker 1: and and I used to just go there and sit
Speaker 1: and I could escape into this place that I'm talking
Speaker 1: about what creativity exists. You know, it's right here, just
Speaker 1: before you go to sleep. There's a kind of a
Speaker 1: place you kind of float around a little bit. If
Speaker 1: you can get there. You can get there by meditation. Uh.
Speaker 1: It's really interesting because I remember as a little boy,
Speaker 1: you know, I always have a thing now because you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes we have to of these shows in the round.
Speaker 1: I never liked anybody behind me while I'm in my
Speaker 1: trance because my dad rest his soul, you know, he
Speaker 1: was a very conservative guy who was a dentist, you know,
Speaker 1: and he would not realize that I wasn't another planet
Speaker 1: when I was playing the piano, and he would go,
Speaker 1: are you ready to eat? Oh my goodness, you know hello?
Speaker 1: You know? Uh no, so uh, you know, as I say,
Speaker 1: I don't really think you need drugs to do anything. Okay,
Speaker 1: you have a new book, Memoir of a Rascal. What's
Speaker 1: the backstory? Why a book? Now? Okay? Two thousand thirteen
Speaker 1: Steve van Z and matterface of the last time I
Speaker 1: saw he was in those uh wanted us to do
Speaker 1: a kind of like a Broadway show. So he took
Speaker 1: a title of one of our albums, once upon a Dream,
Speaker 1: and we we embarked on this whatever you want to
Speaker 1: call it, magical mystery tour. And uh. During this process,
Speaker 1: there was a number of press conferences. Okay, so the
Speaker 1: four of us were sitting at you know, and just
Speaker 1: you know, they depressed, would ask questions, and I noticed
Speaker 1: everyone had a different answer for the same question. And
Speaker 1: I started to say, wait a second, do you think
Speaker 1: really that the Pearl Harbor happened? Or was it somebody
Speaker 1: that just was there that said it? You know, I
Speaker 1: mean you say, wait a second, I was there. That's
Speaker 1: not what I remember. Maybe I should write a book
Speaker 1: and just kind of like say my story that that's
Speaker 1: how it started. Okay, But the other thing in the book,
Speaker 1: you give a lot of credit to your new manager Obie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so tell us about him in your relationship. Okay, So
Speaker 1: here here's the situation. Was my we call him Abby
Speaker 1: Abby Abbi Steinman. He's in his fifties. So here's the
Speaker 1: here's here's the rub. And if he was only born
Speaker 1: when we were rascals, if he was only born, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't have to tell you normal and everything I read.
Speaker 1: I read your stuff all the time. It's the music business.
Speaker 1: It's not the music music. Most of us are musicians,
Speaker 1: were not businessmen. If you have that link to the
Speaker 1: business world, you've got a really good chance of having
Speaker 1: a career that's successful. If you don't have that, it's
Speaker 1: very very difficult to especially in today's modern world where marketing,
Speaker 1: you know, you take a person like goth Brooks. I mean,
Speaker 1: he was a marketing major. Look what he did. I mean,
Speaker 1: what can you say? I mean, you can't you mean,
Speaker 1: that's brilliant. We never really had that type of acumen
Speaker 1: in in the business department, in our in our management.
Speaker 1: With all due respect to Sid Bernstein and and and
Speaker 1: his ilk uh, they weren't you know, like, um, they
Speaker 1: weren't aware of what we needed to do the the
Speaker 1: the UH in those days. They were these columnists like
Speaker 1: Walter Winchell and just some of these the people that had,
Speaker 1: you know, in the New York Post and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Ed Sullivan was one of those people. That's how you
Speaker 1: got your advertisement. You know. This is pre MTV, this
Speaker 1: is prehistoric, you know. So Abbie came in with all
Speaker 1: the new UH ideas, you know, just as as as
Speaker 1: an idea, you know, like for example, we do a concert,
Speaker 1: you know, we do a live show, I go out
Speaker 1: with Felix, Cavaleries, Rascals, Um, I advertise my own shows.
Speaker 1: Now we never even dreamt of that, Neil Is, because
Speaker 1: the promoter would do that. Well, that doesn't happen anymore.
Speaker 1: So we kind of, you know, we we we we
Speaker 1: buy ads, or we do podcasts, or we do radio
Speaker 1: interviews to bring people to fill the seats because if
Speaker 1: you fill the seats, you go back and if you
Speaker 1: don't next you know, it's so different today. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just amazing, you know. Okay, So the book is
Speaker 1: very good because it's not about nuts and bolts. It's
Speaker 1: more about the experience. But in the experience. Not everybody
Speaker 1: looks good. Were you anxious about writing some of that stuff?
Speaker 1: Did you contact people and say, hey, I'm gonna write this.
Speaker 1: What do you think? Well, I think the word is yes,
Speaker 1: we were. I was very anxious. I've had an unfortunately,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot, a lot of disappointment with my
Speaker 1: old band members. That's the nicest word that I can
Speaker 1: think of, uh, in terms of the way they have
Speaker 1: behaved after you know, the group broke up. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean it's just sad, you know, really when you
Speaker 1: go backwards. So I was obviously very very careful not
Speaker 1: to say anything that would ruffle feathers of people who
Speaker 1: you know, I really loved. I mean, I just disappointed
Speaker 1: in their actions. But we were brothers, you know, so
Speaker 1: to speak. And you know, I'm wondering if if it's
Speaker 1: Mr Putin's ego that's destroying this this planet, you know,
Speaker 1: because it's certainly leaves though, well that's what destroyed us
Speaker 1: the same thing, you know. So I have to be
Speaker 1: very careful of that because you know, the lawyers are
Speaker 1: making a lot of money these days. Okay, So did
Speaker 1: you have a pre existing relationship with Steven Van ZANDT
Speaker 1: or did he just track you down and say I
Speaker 1: have an idea? Yes and no. I mean basically I
Speaker 1: was in touch with Steve. You know, my my drummer,
Speaker 1: Dino Dannelli, was part of his uh his Disciples of Soul.
Speaker 1: I think I did a couple of sessions for his albums,
Speaker 1: so I kind of knew of him and about him,
Speaker 1: you know, and uh, you know, the the real uh
Speaker 1: kind of link came when we were brought into the
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame,
Speaker 1: and you know, basically for those that don't know that story,
Speaker 1: you know, the Hall of Fame how it works is
Speaker 1: there's a nominating committee, uh that if you're not on
Speaker 1: the in the nominations, obviously there's no way you can
Speaker 1: get in. I mean we all, we meaning the inductees,
Speaker 1: we vote for the you know, the next year's uh
Speaker 1: uh induction inductions, but we don't nominate. So the people
Speaker 1: who nominate are really really important. Steve was one of
Speaker 1: those people that put our name in front of the
Speaker 1: panel all the time. There were a few others too,
Speaker 1: and I'm proud to mention them. I mean, Phil phil
Speaker 1: Spector was a big help to us. Frankie Valley, big
Speaker 1: help to us, Dion Demucci, big help to us. A
Speaker 1: lot of people really put our names on the committee.
Speaker 1: So when Steve did basically, um, this is the interesting
Speaker 1: part is that he wanted to do the introduction, the
Speaker 1: induction ceremony. And I don't know if you saw that,
Speaker 1: but it was classic. It was classic and and and
Speaker 1: as you know, uh, that's how he got the part
Speaker 1: in the sopranos. He was contacted because it was really brilliant.
Speaker 1: And he told me later he said, I had another
Speaker 1: hair flower, but I was embarrassed to do it. It
Speaker 1: was really good. So did it end up being the
Speaker 1: stage show Once upon a Dream? God, I'm losing track
Speaker 1: of time. But many years later, turnround to thirteen, around
Speaker 1: to twelve. I mean, it's really very interesting here. You
Speaker 1: know how God works, you know, because it's so it's
Speaker 1: just I got a call from one of my daughters,
Speaker 1: you know, the rest her soul. She says, Dad, don't
Speaker 1: get excited. I got a little lump in my breast.
Speaker 1: I said, oh my goodness, what can you say? Not
Speaker 1: even not even the next hour, maybe the next three hours.
Speaker 1: I get a call from Steve van zand out of
Speaker 1: the Blue, Bruce and I do this Kristen Carr Cancer
Speaker 1: Research concert every year. Would you be interested in reuniting
Speaker 1: the rascals to do that? What could I say? I mean,
Speaker 1: I hadn't seen these guys since with the Hall of Fame,
Speaker 1: which is this is like, you know, not not not
Speaker 1: quite ten but whatever, it was more than that years.
Speaker 1: I said, yes, you know, and and so we went
Speaker 1: to um, uh what's his name's club down there? Uh,
Speaker 1: I can't remember, down down down in uh uh Alec
Speaker 1: Bowen's place, I guess you know, No, not Alec, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: Scorry was it was Robert de Niro's place, excuse me?
Speaker 1: And uh we did a concert down there. We did
Speaker 1: a show down there. It was five thousand dollars a
Speaker 1: ticket was all for cancer. And obviously I met a
Speaker 1: lot of doctors and a lot of people who could
Speaker 1: help my kid, kept my daughter, you know. So that
Speaker 1: was the beginning. And then, as fate would have it,
Speaker 1: you know, everybody said, hey, you guys want to do
Speaker 1: this again, you want to do something, And now I
Speaker 1: knew I was in trouble. You know, now I knew
Speaker 1: It's kind of like, you know, if you get a divorce,
Speaker 1: you know, and somebody says, hey, would you would you
Speaker 1: like to go back with your ex? And I said,
Speaker 1: not really, Well why don't you try? You guys were
Speaker 1: so good together? Said yeah, okay, but you see the scar.
Speaker 1: Oh anyway, So that's how it happened. And and then
Speaker 1: the rest was kind of like a snowball going down
Speaker 1: the hill, you know, because yeah, you guys were good.
Speaker 1: You know, we were good. That was good. Why don't
Speaker 1: we and we started they started talking, bringing up ideas,
Speaker 1: And that's that's when life really comes becomes complicated, because
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I understand why people. I mean,
Speaker 1: I remember my my manager the old day, said Bernstein
Speaker 1: used to get in trouble, Old Tom trying to reunite
Speaker 1: the Beatles. I want to put the Beatles together. We
Speaker 1: don't want to be together. We don't want to be together.
Speaker 1: But there's a there's a desire for people to see
Speaker 1: the people that they loved up on stage again, you know.
Speaker 1: And and so that's how it happened. It kind of
Speaker 1: like snowballed. Well, how did it become a Broadway show?
Speaker 1: A whole production is opposed to just a concert? I think,
Speaker 1: you know, Steve had an idea besides just doing a
Speaker 1: uh a show like a so called you know, concert,
Speaker 1: to include a kind of another dimension in terms of lights. Uh.
Speaker 1: And because he had this this gentleman who Mark Brittman,
Speaker 1: who who did this phenomenal lighter. He did the Empire State.
Speaker 1: He's doing the Empire State building as we speak. So
Speaker 1: he had done uh lights for Bruce and I think
Speaker 1: he did YouTube or somebody he did, uh maybe Pink Floyd.
Speaker 1: He was good, really good. So that was the ideas
Speaker 1: to make the whole theater into like a light universe,
Speaker 1: you know. And then he wanted to do a video,
Speaker 1: and the video was was was to be a story.
Speaker 1: So I think in his mind in the beginning he
Speaker 1: had always this this concept to do a Broadway show
Speaker 1: or a show you know, I mean Jersey Boys. Certainly,
Speaker 1: you know, it was quite effective it or so I
Speaker 1: think that was it was in his mind. And and
Speaker 1: basically what happened is we sat down and uh. He
Speaker 1: had originally written a story and I said, you know, Alison,
Speaker 1: when the land has already been done, there's none of
Speaker 1: this story that's real, so you know, let me tell
Speaker 1: you what happened. And he did that with each of us.
Speaker 1: And I think what happened is he put together like
Speaker 1: a script, you know, and and that's how that happened.
Speaker 1: What was your viewpoint on that? In in addition, it
Speaker 1: started off at New York, then went on the road,
Speaker 1: and he was funding it and it wasn't profitable. You know,
Speaker 1: I really can only go by the critics, you know,
Speaker 1: what they said of it. You know, my view of
Speaker 1: it is um is entirely different. You know, sometimes when
Speaker 1: you go on stage, you know, we we have sometimes
Speaker 1: you know, we have to two places where sound is
Speaker 1: is exuded from. You know, one is the the audience.
Speaker 1: They they hear what we're projecting. But we also here
Speaker 1: in our own monitors, like these headphones, what we sound
Speaker 1: like on stage. And you know, you come to realize
Speaker 1: that unless you're in the Bruce, you know, bruiser, you
Speaker 1: two category Billy Joel category, you may not hear on
Speaker 1: stage what you'd like to hear. However, you're not playing
Speaker 1: for yourself. You're playing for the audience. So my views
Speaker 1: of what's good and what's not good they're a little
Speaker 1: you know, they're a little little biased because I I
Speaker 1: did not like the structures. See I I like to
Speaker 1: be a free free agent. You I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: like being tied down to where you got thirty seconds
Speaker 1: and then the commercial starts, or you know, fifteen seconds
Speaker 1: and then you know, the drums come in. I don't
Speaker 1: like that. I like more of a jazz you know. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, for example, when I first was learning music, uh,
Speaker 1: my mom arrested. So she wanted me to be a
Speaker 1: classical pianist. So I would sit down with it with
Speaker 1: the piano, and I'd sit down with the mu is
Speaker 1: it and I play, and the teacher had a ruler.
Speaker 1: In those days, you know, this is when you could
Speaker 1: beat up your clients, you know, your students, and man,
Speaker 1: what are you doing? She says, well, that's not how
Speaker 1: it's written. Oh, in other words, like I can't do that.
Speaker 1: In other words, you can't put the left hand down
Speaker 1: before the right hand because it makes it that Oh
Speaker 1: you can't do that. It makes an eco. It sounds cood.
Speaker 1: He can't do it. That's not how he wanted it.
Speaker 1: That's the way I felt. I felt very restricted because
Speaker 1: it was you know, it was all timed. You know.
Speaker 1: I when when when I get an idea, you know,
Speaker 1: I'd like to you know do it? You know, and
Speaker 1: I think the audience, you know, everybody says to us
Speaker 1: all the time, Hey, how can you do those songs
Speaker 1: over and over and over and over and over and over?
Speaker 1: Where I can do them over and over because I'm
Speaker 1: creating as I'm doing them, We're making new things happen.
Speaker 1: Maybe they're very nuanced and very small, but they're there. Well,
Speaker 1: I knew I felt very restricted. So how did it end?
Speaker 1: And in the book you talk about trying to put
Speaker 1: it together without all the production, and that doesn't come together.
Speaker 1: So tie those stories. Yeah, exactly. Well it ended when
Speaker 1: we got a like a kind of like an email.
Speaker 1: I used to be a telegram, remember, but it said
Speaker 1: guess what the show is over? And it says it
Speaker 1: was on my birthday as a matter of fact, you know,
Speaker 1: it was a November twenty nine, and all of a
Speaker 1: sudden it's done. Uh. You know, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: reasons why things don't make money. Um, none of them.
Speaker 1: Were the rascals falled? That's the nicest way I can
Speaker 1: say that. Okay, And why couldn't you reunite the being well,
Speaker 1: the bands were united. Why couldn't you convince everybody to
Speaker 1: go out just as the rascal. Well, you know that
Speaker 1: that's really the interesting thing, you know, because uh, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: there's a chapter in the book where one of one
Speaker 1: of my dear friends who I grew up with, said,
Speaker 1: with the stupidest rock and roll band in the world.
Speaker 1: You know, most people who don't have a lot of
Speaker 1: money and somebody offers them a lot of money, they
Speaker 1: go and try to get a lot of money, you know,
Speaker 1: like you know the stories about you know, the Eagles,
Speaker 1: you know, and you know how they you know, however,
Speaker 1: and keeps them together, you know, and and they're making zillions.
Speaker 1: You know, my guys don't think like that. As a
Speaker 1: matter of fact, my guys don't think so. I couldn't
Speaker 1: do it. I could not reunite or reconvene because you know,
Speaker 1: the Stones do they get along? Who cares? They play
Speaker 1: great together and they go home. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I could not do that. I could not get these
Speaker 1: guys to say, hey, look, you know, the clocks ticking.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, we are not going to
Speaker 1: be able to do this much longer. And now, unfortunately
Speaker 1: that that is definitely the case. There's a lot of illness.
Speaker 1: Why don't we do it and just do it and
Speaker 1: you know, satisfying. Not only are fans which you know,
Speaker 1: they're begging us to do this, but you know, let's
Speaker 1: just put a closure on, you know, let's let's let's
Speaker 1: get Oh and by the way, let's make a little money.
Speaker 1: Is there's nothing, there's no friend of mine wrote a
Speaker 1: song called It's not the money, It's the money. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: famous music pieces expression. So you know, I mean, it
Speaker 1: is something wrong with that. I couldn't do it. So
Speaker 1: you know, I tried, and a lot of other people
Speaker 1: have tried, a lot of people, famous people, you know,
Speaker 1: Shelley Finkel, Jim Coplick, you know, uh, you know, important promoters,
Speaker 1: powerful people, Abby Obvi Steinman. Uh. You know, you just
Speaker 1: can't explain it. Okay, you're talking as if you're the
Speaker 1: driving force and leader of the band. When the band
Speaker 1: broke to the general public, Eddie was the front man,
Speaker 1: but he didn't sing all the songs. In addition, then
Speaker 1: you started composing songs, and as time evolved, you had
Speaker 1: an equal, if not more dominant face. But my question
Speaker 1: is more simplistic. Were you always the leader of the
Speaker 1: band and driving force or did that evolve over time? Yes,
Speaker 1: simple as that I started the band. I was the
Speaker 1: only one that had trying putation to take the equipment.
Speaker 1: I was the only one who kept the books. I
Speaker 1: was the only one that paid the bills. Yes, I
Speaker 1: had the idea. I wanted it to happen. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's so interesting because how is a communist? And I
Speaker 1: didn't realize that communism only works in heaven. It doesn't
Speaker 1: work on earth, you know. I I just you know,
Speaker 1: I said, man, I just want to get a bunch
Speaker 1: of guys that really sing and play well together. Man,
Speaker 1: and they you know, they're really talented. Man, Let's go
Speaker 1: out and conquer the world. That's why I always wanted brothers.
Speaker 1: I never had a brother. You know, if I had
Speaker 1: a b G family, forget about it. We take over
Speaker 1: the planet. So, you know, I I just put them
Speaker 1: together like that. And and and I and I and
Speaker 1: I had a vision. I had a sound vision, you know,
Speaker 1: and and uh, you know, it really was a wake
Speaker 1: up call to me to see, you know, other people
Speaker 1: and how they you know, I mean, for example, you know,
Speaker 1: when you would do interviews in the old is and
Speaker 1: they would ask each of us you know, the teen magazine.
Speaker 1: What what did you want to be when you, you you know,
Speaker 1: grew up. Did you have any plans? And I was
Speaker 1: shocked to hear the plans that these guys, because in
Speaker 1: many cases they had no plans, you know, say, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: so ambition, desire, you know, well, you know I had.
Speaker 1: I had the desire and the ambition, and and thank lord,
Speaker 1: I had the talent. So I I wanted it to happen.
Speaker 1: But I never really cared, you know about whether you know,
Speaker 1: I'm in the front of the band. I'm taking care
Speaker 1: of the music back here. Man, I'm I'm fine, I'm
Speaker 1: doing great, you know. But Eddie kind of fizzled out,
Speaker 1: you know, he didn't. He didn't. He didn't look at
Speaker 1: it like that. He he um. And he just kind
Speaker 1: of felt like, wow, I want to go home. I said, well,
Speaker 1: what do you mean? What what do you mean you
Speaker 1: want to go home? I don't really want to go
Speaker 1: on the road too much. What you have more fun
Speaker 1: than all of us put together. You know. He was
Speaker 1: the wildest man in the world, you know at that time.
Speaker 1: I mean, the road managers would come up to me
Speaker 1: at the other and I say, please send someone out
Speaker 1: after the show with him. I've got to get some rest,
Speaker 1: you know. And here he wanted to go home. He
Speaker 1: just wanted to be around his his folks all the time.
Speaker 1: Very interesting story, I mean, if I may, just you know,
Speaker 1: when the Buddy Holly tragedy happened, you know, and and
Speaker 1: all those people, Uh, that was the same plane that
Speaker 1: um Joey d and the Starlight is not I don't know.
Speaker 1: It was a week or two before we're on, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So his brother David Eddi's brother David,
Speaker 1: that was it. Fear of flying, you know, we don't
Speaker 1: want to get on airplanes. Oh well, that's fun. How
Speaker 1: are we going to do Hawaii? If you know what,
Speaker 1: the ocean ane'll take us two months to get No,
Speaker 1: I think so all of these things came into you know,
Speaker 1: the music part of our lives and the creative part
Speaker 1: of our lives was only you know that It wasn't
Speaker 1: like their individual personalities. But I didn't know anything about
Speaker 1: these guys. We weren't didn't grow up together as thing
Speaker 1: like that, you know. So when you see you know,
Speaker 1: people's uh, you know, life stories totally different from mine,
Speaker 1: you know, totally different. And I think that's that's the
Speaker 1: that's the problem. What did it have happened with three
Speaker 1: completely different guys? You know, I don't think so. I
Speaker 1: think there's a special thing about groups. I always felt
Speaker 1: that way, And you know, when we did the Broadway
Speaker 1: Show it was perfect example for some reason. You know,
Speaker 1: I use the word God who used whatever word you want,
Speaker 1: puts together certain individuals that have a special sympathico together,
Speaker 1: a special magic together. Because during that that that time,
Speaker 1: when we did that Broadway show, it started off pretty
Speaker 1: rough because a lot of the uh like Dino for example,
Speaker 1: really hadn't been playing. You know, his chops were all
Speaker 1: they were not they're out there. Eddie hadn't been singing,
Speaker 1: so there was no But after a while the magic
Speaker 1: came in. So and answer you to your question, I
Speaker 1: don't think it would happen with other people. You've never know.
Speaker 1: Once the band broke up the early seventies, in two
Speaker 1: you reunite and do this thing with Steve van Zan.
Speaker 1: How much contact did you have with the other members
Speaker 1: across from the litigation table. Yeah, it was not a
Speaker 1: pleasant experience. Yeah, No, we really didn't have much contact.
Speaker 1: I tried to uh reinvent the the writing team, myself
Speaker 1: and Eddie many times over the years because I said
Speaker 1: that we don't have to work, we don't have to
Speaker 1: go on the road, we don't have to even sing,
Speaker 1: but we can certainly, right, why don't we do that?
Speaker 1: You know? And I really was unable to do that
Speaker 1: as well, you know, so we just separated. We did
Speaker 1: a tour in night without Eddie. We did uh, we
Speaker 1: did that wonderful Atlantic reunion, uh was it forty year anniversary,
Speaker 1: which was just oh man, that was so much fun.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I mean, here you are with all
Speaker 1: these these groups you know, that are in one place
Speaker 1: at one time. That that was a lot of and
Speaker 1: and he didn't do that either, So he didn't do it,
Speaker 1: you know, And so we didn't really have much contact
Speaker 1: when we got to the Hall of Fame evening. It
Speaker 1: was unfortunate that that wasn't a real pleasant experience either,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean it should have been, you know,
Speaker 1: but um, that's just so much, you know, it's just
Speaker 1: really difficult to discuss. You talk about the litigation. What
Speaker 1: was all the litigation about? Wow? Well, you know, um, well,
Speaker 1: right now, I mean the name, the name, the name,
Speaker 1: the situation, you know. I was on the impression when
Speaker 1: you leave a band and you you don't want to
Speaker 1: use the name, that somebody else should be able to
Speaker 1: use the name. But I guess people don't think like that,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, A lot of things that there's a
Speaker 1: lot of just misunderstandings, you know that, you know, without
Speaker 1: going into detail, because I purposely left that out of
Speaker 1: the book because who cares, you know, I mean, well,
Speaker 1: what's the problem. You know, I noticed some people like
Speaker 1: for example, you know, uh, like for example Mr Putin,
Speaker 1: I think he has an idea that these countries that
Speaker 1: have become free and independent really belong to the Soviet
Speaker 1: Union that was dissolved. He's wrong. But try to tell
Speaker 1: somebody that, and then that somebody goes to an attorney
Speaker 1: and talk to the attorney into saying, well, how about
Speaker 1: if we see if this is viable? You know, and
Speaker 1: in England, you know, if you if you, if you
Speaker 1: sue and and it doesn't doesn't happen, you pay, you know,
Speaker 1: you pay the the the what you're looking for, plus
Speaker 1: the legal fees. But in America, bring it on, man,
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. We got your coverage. Just pay
Speaker 1: to pay the lawyers and you know it's just it's sad.
Speaker 1: You know, they call them frivolous suits. So there you go. Okay.
Speaker 1: One statement that really sticks out in your book is
Speaker 1: that you sold the publishing. Yeah, was it like Creden's
Speaker 1: Clearwater Revival where you sold a hundred percent we're just
Speaker 1: the ownership share and retained the raider's share. What was
Speaker 1: going on there, Well, we retained the right to share,
Speaker 1: but you know, the the tragedy was you know, and
Speaker 1: again in nineteen seventy approached me too. Uh Eddie Brigotti
Speaker 1: decided to abandon ship. Actually the nineteen seventy we were
Speaker 1: free agents. We had five years with the Atlantic and uh,
Speaker 1: I say this in the book as well that uh
Speaker 1: Atlantic didn't want to resign the rascals. They wanted to
Speaker 1: resign me, but they didn't want the rascals were a
Speaker 1: little bit too uh out of control in terms of
Speaker 1: uh you know, like direction and you know, like continuity,
Speaker 1: and you know, the output was was not there because
Speaker 1: you know, people weren't weren't doing their jobs. So we
Speaker 1: went to Columbia and it was a major step because
Speaker 1: you know, Clive Davis was over there and uh, you
Speaker 1: know Colombia and I digress, but I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: Columbia was always an international label, whereas Atlantic in the
Speaker 1: early days was not. You know, in Atlantic, we had
Speaker 1: a different record company in every in every country of
Speaker 1: the world, and it was you know, you got you
Speaker 1: got twenty people stealing from you said one, you know.
Speaker 1: But I mean the interesting thing is that when Zeppelin
Speaker 1: came along, you know, uh, at that time, Atlantic merged
Speaker 1: with Warner Brothers. So now there was one label. So
Speaker 1: when you put out a Warner Brothers or an Atlantic product,
Speaker 1: it became internationally. Thus single or the album we didn't
Speaker 1: have that, you know, we had, and so basically we
Speaker 1: were just a little bit before the international you know.
Speaker 1: I mean the platinum records were just starting. You know,
Speaker 1: Cream I think had the first platinum album, and you know, uh,
Speaker 1: so you know, it was a major, major difference, you know.
Speaker 1: So um, you know, as I say, you know, you
Speaker 1: just try to continue. But what happened at that time
Speaker 1: when Eddie decided to leave, is that the you know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like it's the same as a divorce,
Speaker 1: it's the same as a corporation just dissolving. You know,
Speaker 1: Now that the legal issues come up where you've got
Speaker 1: to divide, you know, divide everything, and this is yours,
Speaker 1: this is your microphone, you know, all that kind of
Speaker 1: stuff to stock well for some reason. And again, you know,
Speaker 1: this is where it gets a little, a little little gray,
Speaker 1: because you know, I was still you know, as in
Speaker 1: my late twenties, you know, and I hadn't really developed
Speaker 1: much negativity to the world. You know, I was kind
Speaker 1: of like, you know, still in la la land as
Speaker 1: far as like, man, this is the coolest thing. I
Speaker 1: enjoyed myself so much. I mean, I don't care how
Speaker 1: many arguments we had. That was having a band and
Speaker 1: being successful and being on the road. It was really fun.
Speaker 1: But it was really a dream come true. And you
Speaker 1: like my music? Oh you want to hear? Are you
Speaker 1: kidding me? What more could I possibly ask? Oh? Oh
Speaker 1: the sun isn't shining every day? Oh, but that didn't
Speaker 1: hit me. So when people within our group of advisors
Speaker 1: came up with an idea to sell a power ishing,
Speaker 1: it was also met with Brigotti wanted to cash in,
Speaker 1: you know, all his chips and just wash his hands
Speaker 1: and the whole thing. Terrible decision. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 1: there was a gentleman. But I don't even West Farrell,
Speaker 1: who is no longer with us. West Farrell had a
Speaker 1: an artist that wanted to record our song, one of
Speaker 1: our songs. How can I be sure? David Cassidy, you know,
Speaker 1: who was a major Rascal fan by the way, and anyway,
Speaker 1: that that predicated the sale. And it was a total mistake,
Speaker 1: you know, and and and and it was so sad
Speaker 1: because the only the only people who did not want
Speaker 1: it to happen. We're not invited to the meeting, to
Speaker 1: the transaction. And you know, as a young man, you know,
Speaker 1: especially being you know Italian Salli. Man, you because the
Speaker 1: hell with these guys, Dad with it, take it go.
Speaker 1: You don't realize what are you saying? Man? You know
Speaker 1: what I mean? This is a bad move, especially when
Speaker 1: you see the people now who are you know, really
Speaker 1: cashing in their chips on the publishing because we always
Speaker 1: were told that the publishing was the manna of our industry,
Speaker 1: the songs. That's that's really where it's at, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean asked Mr McCartney. You know, I mean he
Speaker 1: when he gets a record deal, he doesn't take money,
Speaker 1: he doesn't want need money. He takes publishing. You know,
Speaker 1: he owns all of the songs that you hear when
Speaker 1: you go to a football game. He owns the whole halftime.
Speaker 1: You know, he owns frank music. You know, very very
Speaker 1: very very smart, because that used to be and I
Speaker 1: hope it still is. Where the where the real money was.
Speaker 1: You know, So that was a bad mistake on our part. Okay,
Speaker 1: but you reteen, your writer's share. Has that writer's share
Speaker 1: been enough to keep you in good financial state over
Speaker 1: the decades? Well to a degree, yes, But I mean
Speaker 1: I had to put you know, four young people through
Speaker 1: college and one through grad school, so you know, I
Speaker 1: need a little supplement there once in a while, you know.
Speaker 1: And but yeah, I've got no complaint. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I I've had good advice my whole life. You know,
Speaker 1: as I say, you know, I came from a so
Speaker 1: called middle class family, so I had a kind of
Speaker 1: a high bar to achieve to you know, try to
Speaker 1: get to where my my family was and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: And you know, I really have no complaints. I mean,
Speaker 1: you make good decisions, you make bad decisions, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean that to me was a tragic decision because
Speaker 1: you know, it just just was a mistake. What about
Speaker 1: record royalties? They were historically low when you started, Atlantic
Speaker 1: was not famous for paying. What's your experience, Uh, well,
Speaker 1: you know, we we really don't know. Uh you know
Speaker 1: the answer to that, because we'll never know. You know,
Speaker 1: in those days, they had a different way. They used
Speaker 1: the vinyl you know, and basically they had this uh
Speaker 1: sort of accounting mechanism where let's say, um, you print
Speaker 1: up uh fifteen thousands promotion at copies. Well, you can't
Speaker 1: get paid on those. Those are promotional, So that promotional
Speaker 1: part of the equation. It's very interesting how that fluctuated.
Speaker 1: You don't want to fluctuated that way. But yeah, we
Speaker 1: sold to Oh no, no, no, but those were promotional.
Speaker 1: Oh I see, Okay, I got you. We'll never know.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're we're we're able to do audits every
Speaker 1: five years, and you know, the tragedy of the situation,
Speaker 1: they can't even agree on doing an audit. So it's
Speaker 1: just bye bye, we'll see your money. Are they still
Speaker 1: calculating your royalties at the low sixties rate? Pretty much? Sure.
Speaker 1: We never really renegotiated. We should have. And so is
Speaker 1: there any money there? Oh yeah, I mean there's something.
Speaker 1: You know, obviously there's there's something there. It's it depends
Speaker 1: on your lifestyle, of course, you know, but there's still
Speaker 1: money there, you know. Fortunately, you know, we still have
Speaker 1: audience out there, and and and and and you know,
Speaker 1: there's so many variables to now. You know, when the
Speaker 1: radio stations started to kind of de emphasize sixties and seventies,
Speaker 1: and now you know, as as the demographic changes, you know,
Speaker 1: they get up more towards you like they Well, okay,
Speaker 1: now we don't have that that that advertisement, which is
Speaker 1: really all the radio play is. It's an advertisement, you know. Uh, well,
Speaker 1: I go on the road, you know, and uh you
Speaker 1: know that's what to a degree is an advertisement. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. We do podcasts and you know,
Speaker 1: things like this keep our music alive because if you
Speaker 1: can't hear it, you know, a lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of these people were not even born, you know. I
Speaker 1: mean I I say that in my show when I
Speaker 1: do my closing storm, which is good love, and I say, hey,
Speaker 1: we'd like you to sing along. But here's the rules.
Speaker 1: If you weren't born, you don't have to see it. Okay,
Speaker 1: you're going out on the road with Nikki Dolan's how
Speaker 1: did that come together? I think that came as more
Speaker 1: of like an agency management managerial decision, you know, like, uh,
Speaker 1: you look for pairings, you know, people that get along,
Speaker 1: and I think our music's you know, kind of they
Speaker 1: they invoked this kind of real happiness, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, because you know, there's not not a really
Speaker 1: a lot of like, you know, bad stuff in those songs,
Speaker 1: as far as like, you know, we've had enough of
Speaker 1: COVID and we've had enough of of of of you know, heartbreak,
Speaker 1: and we certainly lose losing and have lost a lot
Speaker 1: of people. I think a happy tour, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: much like you know my eternal friends do. It's not
Speaker 1: a bad idea, and I think the music would go together.
Speaker 1: He's a good guy. I've known him and the other
Speaker 1: fellows for years, and uh it's heart keeping a straight
Speaker 1: face around him because he's really funny. You know, I
Speaker 1: only know him a little bit, but I just could
Speaker 1: never get over the fact that he was in circus
Speaker 1: board and then suddenly she would say, you know a monkey,
Speaker 1: that same guy. But uh, let's go back to the beginning.
Speaker 1: So you grew up in ALM, what was pelam like that. Oh,
Speaker 1: it is a beautiful suburb. I used to say, look,
Speaker 1: you know, I've got over here. I got mom very
Speaker 1: I got near a show over there, young because I
Speaker 1: can get beat up within five miles, but right here,
Speaker 1: I'm safe. You know. It was a great town with
Speaker 1: a great, great education system. My parents moved there although
Speaker 1: they couldn't afford it, because they wanted us really to
Speaker 1: have an excellent education and that that worked. And your
Speaker 1: parents were they born in America, born in the Old Country,
Speaker 1: You were born in that They was second second generations, yes, okay.
Speaker 1: And your father was a dentist and your mother what
Speaker 1: did she do? Pharmacists? Pharmacists, So they were both working
Speaker 1: outside the home. Well, you know he was when she
Speaker 1: started having us. You know, I think she stopped. But
Speaker 1: I mean, my my mom's family, you know, very very
Speaker 1: interesting family as far as like they're kind of uh,
Speaker 1: you know, they were all doctors and you know, really
Speaker 1: really kind of important people in the medical field. You know,
Speaker 1: they were quite a family. And my dad's family me,
Speaker 1: my dad came up uh from you know, uh family
Speaker 1: that basically were His father was a barber. You know.
Speaker 1: The good thing is that he was a Wall Street barber,
Speaker 1: so when he got a tip was a real good one,
Speaker 1: you know. So, you know, it was really interesting because
Speaker 1: of the fact that, you know, there was a certain
Speaker 1: intellect you know, around the house that I always appreciated,
Speaker 1: you know, and uh uh when I went out into
Speaker 1: the real world and I realized it's a little different
Speaker 1: out here, you know. So I really had an excellent childhood. Okay,
Speaker 1: so you said you have no brothers, sister, sisters. A sister, yeah, older, younger,
Speaker 1: she's young as you can't sing. How did you end
Speaker 1: up starting at the piano? Oh? My mom? Yeah, for
Speaker 1: some reason, you know a lot of people give their
Speaker 1: kids piano lessons, you know, and for some reason, she saw,
Speaker 1: you know, a talent there, you know, and and so
Speaker 1: she enrolled me in in this pretty serious school for
Speaker 1: a five year old, you know, three lessons a week
Speaker 1: for eight years, and I got an education. I got
Speaker 1: a musical education. The the the you know, the principle
Speaker 1: was to be a classical pianist, you know, And and
Speaker 1: I did, I mean I tried. I went, you know,
Speaker 1: I did what was told. I went to Carnegie, holding
Speaker 1: my auditions and things like that, and it was just
Speaker 1: it was such a different planet that was just so interesting,
Speaker 1: you know. And and but I learned music. Okay, did
Speaker 1: you like music? I loved it? Absolutely? And did you
Speaker 1: want to practice? Because you moved back in those days
Speaker 1: of piano lessons? Getting the kids to practice was the
Speaker 1: hardest part. That's in the book. Also, my mom, she
Speaker 1: used to you know, we had you know, in the
Speaker 1: street and in the in the back where we used
Speaker 1: to play ball, we had you know, home plate was
Speaker 1: the sewer head, you know. You know, so she would
Speaker 1: come park the car there time for class. Mom, you're
Speaker 1: on the home plate, time for class. You know. That's
Speaker 1: the thing. You know. We're very lenient with our kids,
Speaker 1: you know. And that's a mistake because if she had
Speaker 1: been lenient with me, I would never I would have
Speaker 1: never learned. I wanted to go out and play Man.
Speaker 1: You know, we didn't do video games. We went out
Speaker 1: there and played man. And were you a popular kid?
Speaker 1: Good student? What kind of kids were you? You know,
Speaker 1: you're not popular until you start playing music, you know,
Speaker 1: because I was real little. You know, my friends are
Speaker 1: all these giants, you know, and like you know, they're
Speaker 1: going out for the football team. And I couldn't make
Speaker 1: the weight. You had to be hunting twenty five, you know,
Speaker 1: So what can I do? Started playing music? Oh wow,
Speaker 1: look at that a girl. It's different. It's really interesting.
Speaker 1: And how did you end up learning to play the Oregon? Ah? Well,
Speaker 1: a friend of mine said, there's a club up in
Speaker 1: New Rochelle Black Club. There's a trio in there. You
Speaker 1: want to go? So we got one problem. Man, We're
Speaker 1: not sixteen. We're not even able to walk into freaking
Speaker 1: Don't worry. I got that covered, you know, we got that.
Speaker 1: And I went in and I saw this organ trio,
Speaker 1: the Mighty Cravers, an Oregon playing bass, singing, playing leads,
Speaker 1: a sacks, and a drum, and I said, oh my god,
Speaker 1: what is that. That's a Hammond organ. Well that's when
Speaker 1: the Magical Mystery Tour Number one started. I'm in organ.
Speaker 1: How am I going to get a Let me check
Speaker 1: this out. Well, I lived in Westchester, but you know
Speaker 1: where they saw him, New York, Macy's. So I get
Speaker 1: on a train and I go down there, and I'll
Speaker 1: never forget it as long as I live. Mr Silverstein
Speaker 1: is in charge of the music department at Macy's. He says, sure, son,
Speaker 1: go right, in there. That's where the Hammonds are. I
Speaker 1: have this in the book also, But it was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I opened the doors and here are these big machines.
Speaker 1: You know, what do I do? You can't just sit
Speaker 1: down and turn it on because it's not that easy.
Speaker 1: There's a whole situation with a Hammond. There's two switches.
Speaker 1: But he let me be in there, you know, and
Speaker 1: I felt this thing and then I found out it's
Speaker 1: three thousand dollars. I said, oh, Ben, I got a problem. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: thank you sir. Onward, but that started it. So how
Speaker 1: did you often we get it? Or well, I gotta
Speaker 1: I got a smaller one when I went to college,
Speaker 1: you know, when I when I went to college, I
Speaker 1: I kind of you know, we would play pianos with
Speaker 1: microphones sticking in the other side that they be amplified
Speaker 1: and you can keep up with the guitars, you know.
Speaker 1: But I I got a small album hamm and I
Speaker 1: think it was called an L L something. Excuse my phone.
Speaker 1: That's somebody that doesn't know I'm an important guy anyway. Okay,
Speaker 1: But as someone who went to all the rock shows
Speaker 1: in the sixties, we used to look at the Oregon
Speaker 1: and say that's a heavy thing to slipt around. Chiropractice
Speaker 1: loved me, that's for sure, you know. I you know
Speaker 1: my patience, and I know I'm sorry about that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was not made for the row, you know, which
Speaker 1: is so interesting because you know, Hammond really uh, I
Speaker 1: think the fellow was like a Thomas Edison type who
Speaker 1: created that instrument. You know, he did a lot of
Speaker 1: different inventions. This was one and I don't think he
Speaker 1: really ever realized what he had created in terms of
Speaker 1: musical virtuoso instrument. You know, I really don't think they knew,
Speaker 1: you know. And uh, you know, there's a great stories there.
Speaker 1: I don't know if anybody's interested, but you know that
Speaker 1: there's a there's a marriage between the Hammond organ and
Speaker 1: the Leslie speaker. You know the Leslie speakers, that box
Speaker 1: that spins around, you know and distributes the sound of
Speaker 1: the top and the bottom throughout the church or room
Speaker 1: or wherever you happen to be. Well, Hammond didn't create
Speaker 1: the speaker. This other company named Leslie did, and Hammond
Speaker 1: Company did not want that Leslie speaker anywhere near their organ. However,
Speaker 1: the speaker that they had was kind of like a
Speaker 1: Fender guitar hump. It did not it wasn't it didn't.
Speaker 1: It wasn't good. So it took them years to realize
Speaker 1: we must coexist. You know, he had no idea they
Speaker 1: had made this monstrosity of a phenomenal, you know, like instrument,
Speaker 1: which it still is. Okay, how hard was it to learn?
Speaker 1: You know, piano is pretty simple. It's got the keys
Speaker 1: and it's got the strings. But there's so many things,
Speaker 1: including bass, pedals, etcetera. On an Oregon. How long did
Speaker 1: it take you to come up to speed? How long
Speaker 1: did it take you to ride a bike? Same thing,
Speaker 1: same thing, same thing? You know. I mean you gotta
Speaker 1: do that. Oh okay, I go oh, I get it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean you know, when people want to do something,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, they do it and and and and
Speaker 1: I I heard you know this, Jimmy Smith's gentleman. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, I said bad. Yeah. Most of the people
Speaker 1: that come from you know, my years way back when
Speaker 1: you know, like the Kinks and you know all these guys,
Speaker 1: you know, the they love what they do, man, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I I see Rod Argent, these guys many
Speaker 1: they don't have to go on the road Ringo is
Speaker 1: the best example. I mean, what he needs, he needs
Speaker 1: to go, he needs to go work. They love it
Speaker 1: and if you love it, it's easy. Don't stand that point.
Speaker 1: You know, you were a king in an era with gods.
Speaker 1: Did you know all those people? Sure we have business.
Speaker 1: We had, you know, fifteen people in those days nowadays,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, it was a small business. You know.
Speaker 1: First of all, look, there really wasn't a big paycheck
Speaker 1: at the end of those years for most are artists,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean they didn't make any money, you know,
Speaker 1: until you know, like we started getting to beatle Land
Speaker 1: and to Zeppe Land and to cream Land and they're
Speaker 1: rolling stone Land. So you had to be a little
Speaker 1: bit insane to do this, you know. And second of all, um,
Speaker 1: you know, there wasn't that many people doing it, and
Speaker 1: and those of us that we're doing it, you know
Speaker 1: before right before our time, when Murray the k and
Speaker 1: of course Alan Freed and and they used to have
Speaker 1: these shows. They had like ten fifteen acts on the show,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean we would Wick of Bo Diddley Man,
Speaker 1: we would have Paddi LaBelle. I mean they would be
Speaker 1: on the same stage. You can't like nowadays, because you're
Speaker 1: two thousand dollars to go to that show. But it
Speaker 1: was different, you know, and Chuck Berry would be there,
Speaker 1: and you know, it was just a lot more about music,
Speaker 1: and you know, they couldn't choge. It was like three
Speaker 1: dollars went five dollars to get in. Yeah, let's let's
Speaker 1: go back to that era. You're obviously a little older
Speaker 1: than I am, but I certainly remember everybody had a
Speaker 1: transistor radio by time I came along. Elvis was kind
Speaker 1: of in the rear view mirror in the army. But
Speaker 1: we had the Beach Boys, we had Frankie Valley, and
Speaker 1: we had a lot of people who were derided, like
Speaker 1: Fabian and Bobby right absolutely. Then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: the Beatles come and the whole thing blows up. But
Speaker 1: what I find interesting is the people who followed in
Speaker 1: their wake, certainly a media. They've been in the business,
Speaker 1: they've been playing music before. So my question to you
Speaker 1: is what inspired you, what turned you on? What was
Speaker 1: it like before the Beatles? Well, Elvis of course was there.
Speaker 1: You know, Elvis was there again. You know this is
Speaker 1: all in that book, you know, But I was in school,
Speaker 1: you know, I was a Junior H what he called
Speaker 1: Junior High. And this you know the alphabet ties you
Speaker 1: see A V C A L C A L was
Speaker 1: right in front of me. John become one of my
Speaker 1: dear friends. We we just were joining up because you know,
Speaker 1: basically we were all different elementary schools that that had
Speaker 1: come to Junior High. Sis, Hey, you like rock and roll.
Speaker 1: I had no idea what he was talking about. I
Speaker 1: I had never heard the word. We were classically kind
Speaker 1: of like you know, a religion. You know, I don't
Speaker 1: want you to go into those other denominations. You stay
Speaker 1: right here now. I couldn't listen, but I said yes
Speaker 1: because I didn't want to be like, know where this
Speaker 1: guy come from. But I went home, turn on this
Speaker 1: little green box web Corp. Whatever it was, and I
Speaker 1: heard this guy Alan Freed, and I heard this guy
Speaker 1: Ray Charles and Jerry Lee Lewis, and I said, oh
Speaker 1: my god, this facts don't want He's playing the piano.
Speaker 1: That's what I play. Oh wow. And it just starts
Speaker 1: you off and you say, like, you know, I think
Speaker 1: I think I could do this, you know, let me
Speaker 1: try it. You know, Well, this whole world opened up,
Speaker 1: you know, to all of us not just I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, beatles have the same story coming from the
Speaker 1: English point of view, from the radio, from pirate radio
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff. It just it just
Speaker 1: it's just like, well, that's what I do. I play
Speaker 1: that instrument, but I don't play it like that. Let
Speaker 1: me see if I can do it. That's how it starts.
Speaker 1: At what point did the dream of making this a
Speaker 1: career come to you? Well, you know, it really never
Speaker 1: came to me. And you know, basically, I I you know,
Speaker 1: I get a chance to speak at a lot of
Speaker 1: you know, I used to speak at Berkeley College of
Speaker 1: Music when I lived on the East Coast, and you know,
Speaker 1: I tell the young people, I said, look, you know,
Speaker 1: you have no idea what's going to happen? You really don't,
Speaker 1: you know, And and and you know, I tell my story,
Speaker 1: which is what we're talking about here. I was supposed
Speaker 1: to be pre I was pre med. I mean, I
Speaker 1: was going you know, the way of my my my family,
Speaker 1: you know. But I had a band up there, you know,
Speaker 1: I had a group called the Escorts and lou Reed
Speaker 1: went to the school at the same time. You know,
Speaker 1: in Syracuse is a very very I mean it was
Speaker 1: so much fun. I mean, I'm I'm I mean I
Speaker 1: used to play for all the athletes. I used to
Speaker 1: play for the you know, the homecoming. We had a
Speaker 1: good team and those days it was more of a
Speaker 1: football school. But I played for all the parties. I said,
Speaker 1: you know what, this is really fun. And then another guy,
Speaker 1: another gentleman from our band we had, you know, fraternities,
Speaker 1: we had to zbt you know, and his father, uh
Speaker 1: had big connections up in the Catsco Mountains. Usaid, want
Speaker 1: to want to go to the Castle Mountains first summer? Yeah?
Speaker 1: When on? I never went back. I had so much
Speaker 1: I mean, I was just I loved it, you know,
Speaker 1: and here I am, and you know, it's all in
Speaker 1: the in the book, so to speak. But I had
Speaker 1: no idea that I was going to be a musician.
Speaker 1: I had absolutely no idea until you know it. Just
Speaker 1: to tell us some I hooked it up with Joey
Speaker 1: D and the Starlighters. Yeah, well again, you know, like
Speaker 1: what happened is every every weekend when a headliner would
Speaker 1: come in, you know, and um that headliner in this
Speaker 1: case was Joey D and the star Lighters. And that's
Speaker 1: when my life really really changed because up until then
Speaker 1: I had not that much contact with New Jersey. Itights,
Speaker 1: you know, and when I met the New Jersey it's,
Speaker 1: oh my god, oh my god. I I was introduced
Speaker 1: to another planet, you know, and it's it's something that
Speaker 1: you know, like I'll never forget, you know that. The
Speaker 1: first thing that I remember is this gentleman by the
Speaker 1: name of David Brigatti who was remember coming into the
Speaker 1: dressing room and looking at my nose and he says,
Speaker 1: are you Jewish? I said what he said? When I
Speaker 1: saw that, I didn't know, you know, I said, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is going to be something they saw me I
Speaker 1: was doing. Uh. I had to play for the lounges,
Speaker 1: and I had to play for the you know. I
Speaker 1: played for the for the for the for the hotel
Speaker 1: was the Rollie up there, and uh. They went to
Speaker 1: Europe right after that, and their organist had just recently
Speaker 1: gotten married and didn't want to stay. He wanted to
Speaker 1: go home. So they called me and they said, would
Speaker 1: you like to join us in Germany? And uh, I
Speaker 1: know how to tell My father said, Dad, I got this.
Speaker 1: You know, maybe I shouldn't go back to the university.
Speaker 1: What do you think so and I went and I
Speaker 1: went over there, and you know, I went into this
Speaker 1: club that they were and there was this group opening
Speaker 1: up for for Joey and everybody screaming and hollering and yelling.
Speaker 1: And I said, the Beatles. The what yeah, Wow, what's
Speaker 1: going on here? Wow? Man, Beetles are huge over here.
Speaker 1: This is before they came to the United States, So
Speaker 1: what is this? And you know, long hair kids were going.
Speaker 1: I mean, they were just hysterical. I mean, this was
Speaker 1: for real. This was not you know, stage don't I
Speaker 1: do it at the Super Bowl? And they put the
Speaker 1: fans up near the stage so they looked like they're
Speaker 1: having fun. But these these people were gone. And then
Speaker 1: I started listening to the music, you know, and I said, phoo,
Speaker 1: what I could hear? They're a singing group. You know,
Speaker 1: they're really not musicians. You know, you couldn't tell the
Speaker 1: geniuses that were on that stage quite yet. You couldn't
Speaker 1: even hear them. And and and and and and I
Speaker 1: listened to the music and I remember vividly the m
Speaker 1: when they did American music. They are right, you know,
Speaker 1: they have a very different way of syncopation, their rhythm structure,
Speaker 1: their rhythm is more. It's it's not as syncopated. It
Speaker 1: doesn't have like the ends and the sixteenth notes and stuff.
Speaker 1: But when they did their music, when they did I
Speaker 1: want to hold your hand, loved me do it's just
Speaker 1: how do your ears just went? What is that? Wow? Man,
Speaker 1: that's pretty dawned cool. You know, little did we know?
Speaker 1: Little did I know that I was going to do this.
Speaker 1: Little did I know that the rest of the world
Speaker 1: was going to find out what I had just heard
Speaker 1: not too long after that, and in America with its
Speaker 1: solid So that's when I kind of made this decision.
Speaker 1: I said, you know what, I could do this. There's
Speaker 1: nothing that these guys are doing. Little did I know
Speaker 1: they were total composition geniuses. You know, we didn't know
Speaker 1: that I could do this. Let's go youth man, there's
Speaker 1: nothing like it. How long did you with Joey? What
Speaker 1: was the inspiration for leaving? And then what you do? Well?
Speaker 1: You know I came back with joe and you know
Speaker 1: that was quite an organization. Man. Let me tell you,
Speaker 1: almost work back to school, you know, because it was
Speaker 1: so you know, it wasn't like you know, you you
Speaker 1: look and there weren't a very sophisticated type of organization.
Speaker 1: So I met Frankie Valley. You know, frank Frankie Valley
Speaker 1: was the first kind of person that I met that
Speaker 1: really had his act together in those days, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. He wasn't just out there to party
Speaker 1: and to have fun, and you know, he he was
Speaker 1: out there to succeed. And I saw that. Oh wow, yeah,
Speaker 1: m hm, with all due respect, yeah, they had some
Speaker 1: smart people out here. I get it, you know, because
Speaker 1: Frankie was there before Joey, you know. And and and
Speaker 1: frank has always been like a you know, an older brother.
Speaker 1: You know. He always tells me to cut your hair,
Speaker 1: and you know, we're a tie, and you know, that's
Speaker 1: that's that's that's that's the way he treats me as
Speaker 1: as a you know, as as a nephew or something,
Speaker 1: you know. So, you know, I just stay with Joey
Speaker 1: for a while, and then I took another job, which
Speaker 1: was out in Las Vegas, and then I got drafted.
Speaker 1: And you know that that's the real difference between then
Speaker 1: and now, you know, did you have to remember those days?
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't believe you can never forget him.
Speaker 1: You can never forget him. That's also in the book.
Speaker 1: And I tried to be as nice as I could
Speaker 1: about it because but until until I was you know,
Speaker 1: relieved of my duty, you know, as a mercenary. You know,
Speaker 1: I that was the point of starting a group when
Speaker 1: when I left school, uh, you know, basically I went
Speaker 1: on into the real world. Um uh, you know, reality
Speaker 1: sits in. I mean, you know, like, wow, it's nice
Speaker 1: you have a hotel job, you get paid to eat
Speaker 1: and sleep, you know, but when you go out into
Speaker 1: the world and you're trying to make a living as
Speaker 1: a musician, it's a whole different thing. Why start a
Speaker 1: band until why why do anything until I get this
Speaker 1: draft out of the way, you know what, all due respect,
Speaker 1: in the early days, they were very very very uh
Speaker 1: you know they were They was a little bit more
Speaker 1: careful who they brought in. You know, they didn't want me.
Speaker 1: They said, hey, if there's a nuke war, we'll call you.
Speaker 1: Other than that, you know, you can go okay, So
Speaker 1: you're free of that obligation. Is it then that you
Speaker 1: start to put together the Rascals? Absolutely? Absolutely? How did
Speaker 1: you do that? Well? Basically, you know, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: God works as strange ways. You know, it puts people
Speaker 1: in your life, you know basically that you know, like
Speaker 1: belong there, you know what I mean. There's like this well,
Speaker 1: I was working in the Joey's Club because I went
Speaker 1: back there after, you know, after a while, because I,
Speaker 1: you know, needed to make a living at the time.
Speaker 1: And they had a drummer that they had a band
Speaker 1: there that it's called the Starlighters. And this time was Eddie,
Speaker 1: not his brother Eddie. And and this guy, just this
Speaker 1: young man from Rochester, New York, Gene Cornish, came in
Speaker 1: from Rochester, New York. You know, he would try to
Speaker 1: make it in the in the business. He had a
Speaker 1: group up in Rochester called the Unbeatables. Interesting, you know,
Speaker 1: and and then he came to New York and he
Speaker 1: and he hit the wall, you know, the wall of
Speaker 1: what are you kidding? This is this is a whole
Speaker 1: different world. Man from Rochester, New York. He started on
Speaker 1: this stall Adder band, uh, the the the uh myself
Speaker 1: Eddie Geen. We had an interesting drummer. We had a
Speaker 1: young young drummer from Brooklyn at the time. And then
Speaker 1: and as I say, you know, when I when I
Speaker 1: kind of kind of start putting my plans together, I
Speaker 1: asked him. I said, look, why don't we do our
Speaker 1: own thing? What do you mean, why don't we try
Speaker 1: and make it in the music business. Interestingly enough that
Speaker 1: the the the drummer didn't want to go. He got
Speaker 1: another offer from a group that was kind of like
Speaker 1: steady work, which I understand. You know, you got you
Speaker 1: gotta work. You know, this is all speculative, still is
Speaker 1: always will be. And h then again, you know, the
Speaker 1: hand of faith. I had this woman that said to me, well,
Speaker 1: I know a better drummer, and I and and and
Speaker 1: I say, you know you're a banker. You know what,
Speaker 1: what do you know? You know? She took me to
Speaker 1: see this, this this gentleman by the name of Dino Dannelly.
Speaker 1: I saw him through a window at the Metropole. I
Speaker 1: saw him do two songs and I said, oh my god,
Speaker 1: do you know a guitar player? No, I didn't mean
Speaker 1: so anyway, I just I couldn't believe this guy. You know,
Speaker 1: he was like, you know, he was not only playing
Speaker 1: the drums, well, he was doing a show because his
Speaker 1: life was part of like the Louie Bellson Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: Buddy Rich Uh, you know people who were Lionel Hampton.
Speaker 1: These were people. Basically, they were the leaders of their band.
Speaker 1: In the back of the band as as a drummer,
Speaker 1: they put on a show besides being in perfect time
Speaker 1: and doing I couldn't believe it. So I know I
Speaker 1: had the ingredients. Let's go try it. Okay, what were
Speaker 1: the next steps? How do you get from there to
Speaker 1: the Hampton's Well, basically, uh, you know, we we we
Speaker 1: rehearsed at my my father's home. We went down in
Speaker 1: the basement area we had, and we went out to
Speaker 1: the to the world to get jobs. And we got
Speaker 1: a few jobs. A matter of fact, I just did
Speaker 1: a show down in Florida with one of the uh uh,
Speaker 1: the sons of the first place that we worked. The
Speaker 1: first place we worked was in Garfield, New Jersey, at
Speaker 1: the Churchoo Club. And this gentleman came to see me.
Speaker 1: He's like eighty three now, you know, and and uh
Speaker 1: he hired us. He hired me at that time, and uh,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, one day, this gentleman comes in
Speaker 1: from this uh famous club in New York City called
Speaker 1: on Dean's. Now it wasn't I'm not sure if it
Speaker 1: was on Dean's. I think it was better been on
Speaker 1: Dean's and his name was Romi Aguieri and he said,
Speaker 1: I've got an idea. Can I speak to you? And
Speaker 1: you know, I said, yeah, can you sat down? He said,
Speaker 1: I want to open a club in the Hampton's for
Speaker 1: the summer. We'd like you to be the band. Now.
Speaker 1: I grew up not too far from the Hamptons, and
Speaker 1: I realized what was going on going on over that
Speaker 1: part of Long Island. That's where everybody who has anything
Speaker 1: I would like to be this summer. We're gonna be fine.
Speaker 1: Let's take it. Just to be clear, how long after
Speaker 1: you formed the band? Does this happen? Six months or
Speaker 1: not even six month? We had a deal in six months,
Speaker 1: just like two months. We were good, man, We had
Speaker 1: a good band. I mean these guys, you know, See
Speaker 1: the thing is like most bands have one guy, you know,
Speaker 1: and that guy is like, you know, he's the head
Speaker 1: Headhunt show. You know. I have four guys that either
Speaker 1: we're leaders or their own band. Let't me tell you. Wait,
Speaker 1: where do you want to look? These guys were good, man,
Speaker 1: you know, they were really good, you know. And and
Speaker 1: and so when you looked on the stage, you know,
Speaker 1: like you said, wow, chick. I mean Johnston Basch justs
Speaker 1: got the best story about that. You have to ask
Speaker 1: him about that. He I think he he says it
Speaker 1: all the time. When when the Love is poom Full
Speaker 1: first came to see the Rascals, they said, boy, we
Speaker 1: better get to work man, these guys. He did, man,
Speaker 1: you know, because we were kind of like rivals in
Speaker 1: those days. He was the downtown and we were the uptown.
Speaker 1: You know, and I love him. He's one of the
Speaker 1: nicest human beings I've ever met. But you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: it didn't take long because we were good. You know,
Speaker 1: we were good, and we attracted you know, crowds. We
Speaker 1: had a lot of help. The The interesting thing about
Speaker 1: us is that our hometowns, you know, in my case
Speaker 1: Pelham and in Eddie's case, Garfield, they supported us. You know,
Speaker 1: these people would come out to the shows and say, hey, man,
Speaker 1: you know, I got I got a great idea. How
Speaker 1: about if I do this? You know, we had just
Speaker 1: one one guy, one kid whose father you know, when
Speaker 1: we would work in the early clubs, you know those
Speaker 1: big floodlights they put up when you have the you know,
Speaker 1: the bazaars and league lights. He put them on in
Speaker 1: front of the place. And when day I asked him,
Speaker 1: I said, Billy, who's it was? Paying stuff? He put
Speaker 1: on his father's credit card. You know. But we had
Speaker 1: people like really supporting the troop. They really wanted to. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when I got an idea, let's let's let's let's put
Speaker 1: posters up on all the stops signs, oh yeah, that
Speaker 1: the cops are gonna love that. You know, there was
Speaker 1: a there was a this is gonna happen, you know,
Speaker 1: which is why, you know, I get so sad when
Speaker 1: I when I talk about and speak about the you know,
Speaker 1: so called present tense of of the fact that nobody
Speaker 1: we had a phenomenal base, our team. But then we
Speaker 1: just were just great people, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: There were people, the families, and you know, it was
Speaker 1: it was kind of like, you know, a collaboration of
Speaker 1: of of a few towns in America. You know, let's
Speaker 1: let's make this happen, you know, and and so uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't long at all. Was the dream
Speaker 1: to make a living playing live? Or was the dream
Speaker 1: to get a record deal? Who knows? I mean, seriously,
Speaker 1: I mean, as I say, you know, there's this Jean
Speaker 1: d viv or whatever you wanna all about playing music
Speaker 1: that you know, like, you know, a lot of us have.
Speaker 1: You know, some people are able to do it. Some
Speaker 1: people have to do it after they've you know, completed
Speaker 1: their their their their retire retire re fund. But I
Speaker 1: was able to do it, So I never really had
Speaker 1: I can never really say I had any kind of
Speaker 1: you know, I just knew I had to do this
Speaker 1: music after a while, you know, I could feel it
Speaker 1: coming through me. I gotta do this, It has to
Speaker 1: be done, has to be and let me, let me,
Speaker 1: let me get the Catharsis of this. Let me do this.
Speaker 1: I love. So how did you you're playing in the Hamptons,
Speaker 1: how did you end up getting a record deal? Well? Here,
Speaker 1: here's here's where. You know, we got Betty Davis coming,
Speaker 1: we got all these big you know, record record people
Speaker 1: coming in and you know, Phil Specter's coming, and well
Speaker 1: what happened basically is is a gentleman by the name
Speaker 1: of Walter Hyman, who was a textile uh, very very
Speaker 1: very wealthy man sauce and he said called up his buddy,
Speaker 1: said Bernstein, who was in the business. Sid came up
Speaker 1: and they decided to form a management company and manage us. Well.
Speaker 1: From that point, now we entered into the real world
Speaker 1: of like you know, marketing and so called you know,
Speaker 1: put the name in the in the New York Post
Speaker 1: and all those magazines and newspapers. Rather and uh, the
Speaker 1: record company started to come out. So when when when
Speaker 1: Sid and Walter came on. First of all, they doubled
Speaker 1: our salary. We're getting peanuts, you know. And he said,
Speaker 1: you know, I guess what's bringing these people. And it's
Speaker 1: not the ship, it's these guys. And so you know,
Speaker 1: everything changed. I was running the band at that time
Speaker 1: out of a book, you know, This Business of Music,
Speaker 1: which is a classic for anybody who wants anything to
Speaker 1: do with contracts or and and I don't know what
Speaker 1: to do, you know, basically, but when he came in,
Speaker 1: when Sid and Walter came in, that, uh, the owners
Speaker 1: now became okay, let's get him a record deal. You
Speaker 1: talk about it being a different era in the floors
Speaker 1: of Sid relative to other people. What was good about
Speaker 1: Sid and what did Walter rad other than the connection. Well,
Speaker 1: at that time, Walter was the business uh man, you know, Sid,
Speaker 1: Sid and Bernstein, you know who also has a book
Speaker 1: that's uh. He was like the last of the kind
Speaker 1: of Mike Todd type of individuals, you know. He he
Speaker 1: he had a vision of what could be. You know,
Speaker 1: like for example, when Bobby Fisher was in the Chess
Speaker 1: World with Boris Spassky, I think people would like to
Speaker 1: see this, So he brought it to the United States.
Speaker 1: So the Beatles brought it to the United States. You know,
Speaker 1: he saw actually karate and taekwondo brought it to Madisons
Speaker 1: Gregg Garden. He was a visionary in that capacity and
Speaker 1: that he could see this is happening, This is happening,
Speaker 1: this is happening. He still got to pay the bills.
Speaker 1: He's still got you still got to feed the dog,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. That's where he wasn't see
Speaker 1: he was. He was a visionary. You know, you take
Speaker 1: a risk. You know. One of the Sid Bernstein story,
Speaker 1: he's remember the Newport Jazz Festival and then they had
Speaker 1: those riots. You know, I guess I could tell the
Speaker 1: story when when they had the riots, the next year
Speaker 1: was canceled. So Sid says, no, no, we got to
Speaker 1: resurrect this. He went out and borrowed money to make
Speaker 1: that thing happen the next year, knowing he should have
Speaker 1: full well he was going to lose a lot of money.
Speaker 1: But that was sid He was that kind of man.
Speaker 1: He had. He had a different kind of outlook on
Speaker 1: on on the world that was from a very very
Speaker 1: sincere Uh probably wanted to please, you know, he wanted
Speaker 1: to entertain, you know, and and and and that was
Speaker 1: just said eight kids later. I have to ask, because
Speaker 1: of the legendary stories of Colonel Tom Parker, do you
Speaker 1: remember what their percentage was? Uh? Well, it changed because
Speaker 1: of the fact that he was he was a company.
Speaker 1: Prior to that, I don't remember, but it wasn't It
Speaker 1: wasn't obscene at at all. Though we were fairly treated.
Speaker 1: I always felt we were okay. So how do you
Speaker 1: end up in Atlantic Records? Certain people came through the door.
Speaker 1: I wanted to sign us up. For example, Mr Spector
Speaker 1: came in and uh, you know, I had to really
Speaker 1: I loved his music. I mean, you know what he did,
Speaker 1: you know, just you know, we just lost our dear
Speaker 1: friend ire Ronnie. You know. But I had to say,
Speaker 1: I say, look, guys, I don't want to go with
Speaker 1: Phil Specter. I don't want to be phil specter ized,
Speaker 1: what do you mean, man? I said, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I want to produce ourselves. Don't you understand they like
Speaker 1: what they hear these people. Let's do it ourselves. I
Speaker 1: know I can do this. You know when I when
Speaker 1: I was growing up, I heard this record called Money
Speaker 1: by Barrett Strong. I think it was produced by Barry Gordy.
Speaker 1: What does that mean produced? Oh you mean you put
Speaker 1: it together. I could do that. I could do anything.
Speaker 1: So I wanted to be a producer. I I just
Speaker 1: didn't want to go in there and have somebody tell me,
Speaker 1: you know what you should sound like. There's no no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: This is what I want to sound like. You like it,
Speaker 1: don't you? It's good in it. I'll tell you what, man,
Speaker 1: Let me do it. Atlantic was the only company that
Speaker 1: would allow us to do it. However, in the book,
Speaker 1: you testify ad infinite him about the greatness and power
Speaker 1: of the reef Martin. Well he asked the Beatles about
Speaker 1: George Martin. You know again, you know there's a definite
Speaker 1: divine nature to our world, whether we like it or not.
Speaker 1: You know, and when things fall into your place and
Speaker 1: you go like, okay, this guy is really good. I
Speaker 1: mean when when when I knew who Tom Doubt was
Speaker 1: when he was in the Rule with us, because you know,
Speaker 1: I saw his name on all the albums and all
Speaker 1: the singles that I bought my whole life. You know,
Speaker 1: the Drifters, the Coasters, you know, the Ravens, the you know,
Speaker 1: Clim mcpe town down town, down town down I knew him,
Speaker 1: but our reef Martin I didn't know. But it's kind
Speaker 1: of like, you know, when you have when you have like,
Speaker 1: for example, say animals, you know, like say, for example, horses,
Speaker 1: you know, and they put them all together and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, this one dude gets this horse
Speaker 1: gets up over Then you go like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: that's a hell of a horse over there. Bro. This
Speaker 1: guy was just I'm sorry. You know, I cried like
Speaker 1: a baby when he passed. He was something. And you're
Speaker 1: working with him, you know, so what can you say?
Speaker 1: You know, I got an idea, Oh how about this?
Speaker 1: Oh I gotta what do you think about this? So
Speaker 1: I'm saying, did I die and did I die and
Speaker 1: go to heaven? I don't know? This is this is
Speaker 1: phenomenal working with this guy, just phenomenal you're saying, although
Speaker 1: with the reef giving you insight that you actually produced
Speaker 1: all these rascals. Oh we did, Oh absolutely. I mean
Speaker 1: I I don't want to take credit all by myself,
Speaker 1: but you know, I didn't go home until two or
Speaker 1: three in the morning, you know, while these guys were out,
Speaker 1: you know, no, no, I was there. I could tell
Speaker 1: you every dial, everything that they touched. Oh, you know,
Speaker 1: it's too much. I don't want that many highs on it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was there. I was interested for the first day.
Speaker 1: So we produced our own stuff. I mean I say
Speaker 1: we because that's what the contracts said, but I mean
Speaker 1: I was there every step of the way, enjoyed every
Speaker 1: moment of it. You know, in those days, we had
Speaker 1: the unfortunate transition between mono and stereo. You know, so
Speaker 1: if anybody knows what it takes to mix a record,
Speaker 1: you know, in those days we only had eight tracks,
Speaker 1: but still it's it's it's always tedious. We had to
Speaker 1: do it twice for each song. We had to do
Speaker 1: a mono and a stereo version. So yeah, I was
Speaker 1: there the whole time, and and and and you know,
Speaker 1: I don't think there's a seriously a note that went
Speaker 1: on any of our records that I wasn't totally aware of.
Speaker 1: So the first album doesn't have any originals at the time,
Speaker 1: did you have any originals? How do you decide on
Speaker 1: the songs that were included in the first round? Well,
Speaker 1: that was pretty much our set because in those days,
Speaker 1: the club clubs demanded covers. They didn't want to hear
Speaker 1: any of your you know, your your personal fieldings or thoughts.
Speaker 1: You know. They wanted you know, these people are coming
Speaker 1: in here. I want them to dance. I want them
Speaker 1: to drink. They're not gonna do that if they're listening
Speaker 1: to your music. I want them to rock and roll.
Speaker 1: You know, they the aesthetic. That's not what we're hiring,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So, uh, they demanded covers.
Speaker 1: So what I had to do basically is is we
Speaker 1: had a record store up in Nurshelle, New York. And
Speaker 1: you know, in those days, you could go in, put
Speaker 1: on a set of headphones, put the needle down on
Speaker 1: the turntable, and stay as long as you wanted, you know.
Speaker 1: And I heard these songs, and then there was a
Speaker 1: couple of radio stations in Euyork w w l R,
Speaker 1: and you know, uh, Jocko was on and you know
Speaker 1: R and B stations, and they play this songs. You know,
Speaker 1: they played this song, they played this song Mustang Sally,
Speaker 1: they played this song Temptations about to Get Me. Nobody
Speaker 1: ever heard those songs. They played this song good Loving
Speaker 1: unless you were in that neighborhood. Are we go to
Speaker 1: the record store, buy it and tell the proprietor this
Speaker 1: is a cover man. And I mean, I didn't make
Speaker 1: this up. See, that became our set. That's how we
Speaker 1: did our set. And and and it's interesting because the
Speaker 1: the accent that I bring to the table when we
Speaker 1: speak to the microphone, nobody thinks that come from Nashville, Tennessee.
Speaker 1: They know I'm not from here. You know why, Well,
Speaker 1: because whatever I do covered it that way. Well, when
Speaker 1: we did songs that we thought we were doing the
Speaker 1: English version, it was not. It was the sole version,
Speaker 1: you know, It's just the way it came out. You know.
Speaker 1: It just was very interesting. How you know, we we
Speaker 1: we we we made on music. And how did you
Speaker 1: find they ain't can eat it out my heart anymore?
Speaker 1: Well that was a different story now Atlantic. You know,
Speaker 1: I knew we didn't really we hadn't really shown them
Speaker 1: any songs that were written, because they signed us based
Speaker 1: on the nightclub back. They liked what they heard, and
Speaker 1: uh so when we were to the label, they they
Speaker 1: they went the normal route, which as you know from
Speaker 1: those days, was to go to publishers and uh you
Speaker 1: know they they Beatles at Dylan and you know, Spoonful
Speaker 1: Birds and those people, even Birds, they went, they went
Speaker 1: got songs from other people that hadn't really evolved yet
Speaker 1: where you were, you know, like on your own writing.
Speaker 1: You know, that's one of the many, many, many gifts
Speaker 1: that the Beatles and people like Dylan gave us that
Speaker 1: you know, like now now you could you know, express yourselves.
Speaker 1: Prior to that, they not too many people were interested
Speaker 1: in what you had to write at all, so there
Speaker 1: was really no reason to do it except for your
Speaker 1: creative you know kind of juices. So yeah, with those
Speaker 1: songs are part of our set. Did you cut Good
Speaker 1: Loving and say this is a hit or were you
Speaker 1: surprised when all of a sudden became a monster. While
Speaker 1: we were surprised when we came a monster, but we
Speaker 1: weren't surprised when it came a hit. You know. The difference,
Speaker 1: Uh a lot of times between then and now. Is that? Uh,
Speaker 1: you have an audience like in other words, if I
Speaker 1: play a song and I've got a hundred people, a
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty people, it's a record this session here, like,
Speaker 1: what do you think? Well, if they go you know,
Speaker 1: from the first time we played that song, people got
Speaker 1: up and danced, people got up and drank, people got happy,
Speaker 1: and you know to this day, so you know, this
Speaker 1: has got legs. This this could happen, you know, because
Speaker 1: you see what you know, You've got that instant reaction.
Speaker 1: It's like a comedian when he tells a joke. Don't
Speaker 1: use this in the show. You know. Okay, the record
Speaker 1: is a monster. You're all over the media. You have
Speaker 1: to make a second record. The second record is different
Speaker 1: because their originals, and the originals are better than the
Speaker 1: covers and there they How do you end up writing
Speaker 1: songs all of a sudden? Well, you know, and it's
Speaker 1: not all of a sudden. It's just that you know
Speaker 1: somebody up there likes me, you understand, so you know
Speaker 1: basically you know it when you when you when you
Speaker 1: open a door, you know, a smart thing to do
Speaker 1: is to go in and realize what where came from
Speaker 1: you know, so when that door opened up, you know,
Speaker 1: and we're a bunch of young, young, young guys. You
Speaker 1: know that I just had a multimillion whatever you want
Speaker 1: to call itself. He said, you know what, we're going
Speaker 1: to kind of tell you what we want to do now.
Speaker 1: This is what we want to do, big shots. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's be specific. I've been lonely too. Low is a
Speaker 1: monster that I've gotten into more in the twenty one
Speaker 1: century than the twentieth century. There's a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: from that era that's dated. Of course, this is not dated.
Speaker 1: How did you write such a good song so early
Speaker 1: in your writing career? Well, you know, uh, I mean
Speaker 1: there's reasons, you know behind the songs. You know, there's
Speaker 1: there's always reasons which I find, like, you know, the
Speaker 1: the audience is out there really like to hear. But
Speaker 1: you know, we we have in that case, amuse. You know,
Speaker 1: there was this young lady came into my life and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, I wrote all those songs about that
Speaker 1: relationship until we got to how can I be sure
Speaker 1: where I wasn't sure that I in the right move. Uh.
Speaker 1: You're inspired by by people, by events, you know, and
Speaker 1: and and so you know how you know, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't even know what to say except for you know,
Speaker 1: thank you. Okay, let's even go to the next record
Speaker 1: where you really, you know, become a monster. So are
Speaker 1: you saying that all these songs like a girl like you?
Speaker 1: And how can I be sure? And you Better Run
Speaker 1: and Grooving are all about this woman? No, your Better
Speaker 1: Run was about a different woman who drove me crazy.
Speaker 1: This was all yes, yes, yes, yes, positive, but you
Speaker 1: know what I say on my show, but sometimes things
Speaker 1: are not so beautiful, and that's your Better Run. And
Speaker 1: Pat Benattar of course, had the same same same. How
Speaker 1: did you become aware of that Pat Bennettar version when
Speaker 1: you first heard it? Or did they reach out before?
Speaker 1: I think they reach out before, because you know there
Speaker 1: there is a publishing license and all that and stuff
Speaker 1: that they have to do is so they content. I
Speaker 1: contacted our attorneys and people said and I said, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: oh wow, she's good. Let's let's do it. She is
Speaker 1: really good. She's very good, and she did a great
Speaker 1: job of her husband. They really did a good job. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: It was actually bigger than your version terms of succe. Well,
Speaker 1: what else is new? What else is new tell us
Speaker 1: more about grooving well grooving, you know, I mean, you
Speaker 1: know this is this is this is a thing of
Speaker 1: perfect example of what I was alluding to in the
Speaker 1: beginning about the different answers. You know, over the years,
Speaker 1: you you you kind of create your story because you know, uh,
Speaker 1: I mean, Johnson Bash has got some great stories. You know,
Speaker 1: I I can I divest for one one one minute
Speaker 1: with John. John goes on stage and says, when I
Speaker 1: was a boy, you know, my parents used to send
Speaker 1: me to camp and uh I got involved with these
Speaker 1: twins and he picks up his gutarigos, did you ever
Speaker 1: have to make up your mind? You know? Now did
Speaker 1: that really happen? I guess? So? New York is a
Speaker 1: bastion of Latin music, you know, Uh, Latin music was
Speaker 1: present when I was at the Royally Hotel that they
Speaker 1: used to come up and apply a sextet, all these
Speaker 1: Latin bands and that's kind of I heard it, man.
Speaker 1: And and not only that, but they were good bands,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean we we would go to a show,
Speaker 1: you know, basically after that and they would be a
Speaker 1: trio there or quartet. When you go to a Latin show,
Speaker 1: it's a freaking orchestra, man, and these guys are popping. Well.
Speaker 1: I had a lot of Latin friends in the community
Speaker 1: and and and you know, I just said, wow, you know,
Speaker 1: let's how about we try something like this, you know,
Speaker 1: how about we try something like this? And then there's
Speaker 1: a story as far as the lyric and that content,
Speaker 1: which you know, this is evolved over the years. I
Speaker 1: don't know that this is what actually happened, but I
Speaker 1: was working on Friday and Saturday nights. The only time
Speaker 1: I could be with my loved one was Sunday afternoon,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, there was no Friday and Saturday.
Speaker 1: And I've turned that into a whole stick on stage.
Speaker 1: You know, I say, you know how many women like that?
Speaker 1: And none, you know, blah blah blah blah. But anyway,
Speaker 1: it was an inspiration basically because that's the only time
Speaker 1: we had off, so to speak, was Sunday afternoon. You know,
Speaker 1: people go to the park and bring the conga's out
Speaker 1: and all that, you know, and that's grooving. Okay. I
Speaker 1: gotta ask, how did it end with that girl and
Speaker 1: where is she today? Well, unfortunately, you know, the the
Speaker 1: end of the story is never as good as the
Speaker 1: beginning in the middle right now, she married a friend
Speaker 1: of mine, and and that we did. We didn't marry,
Speaker 1: as I say, I thought I thought I had a
Speaker 1: I thought I was just enamored, you know. And and
Speaker 1: and that's that's why she was there, you know. And
Speaker 1: I really believe that there's a you know, uh, a
Speaker 1: famous musical erato that you know, I learned the word
Speaker 1: from my crossword puzzle days and adam use simple as that.
Speaker 1: This this was an inspiration, you know. And and Eddie,
Speaker 1: you know, and he was there. I mean Eddie, you know,
Speaker 1: he knew what I was talking about, and you know
Speaker 1: what we were talking about, and he did a great
Speaker 1: job of you know, putting that story together. You know,
Speaker 1: it was better that he, you know, wrote those things
Speaker 1: with me, because you know, I get a little bit
Speaker 1: too serious sometimes, you know what I'm saying. And he
Speaker 1: was kind of like a flowery you know, you know,
Speaker 1: paint this lovely picture on here. Well, would you sit
Speaker 1: down like they do in Nashville and say, we're making
Speaker 1: an album, we need songs. How did you actually write
Speaker 1: the song? No, that didn't happen, you know, that didn't happen.
Speaker 1: You know, as I say, you know, I I really
Speaker 1: my my work ethic was a lot different from Eddie's.
Speaker 1: So I would bring the song, you know, bring the
Speaker 1: songbury the title, and bring the you know, the music,
Speaker 1: the melody. You know. Basically, this is what this story
Speaker 1: is about. Can can can you help me out? Can
Speaker 1: you right over here? You know? And right and then
Speaker 1: you know, literally uh uh we get it together, you know,
Speaker 1: but we never we never really wrote together like that,
Speaker 1: you know, like the togetherness thing in the beginning when
Speaker 1: we were in the studio. Uh and and it was
Speaker 1: kind of like a new world, you know. We we
Speaker 1: we tried to basically collaborate and to you know, have
Speaker 1: everybody's input put in, you know, but it didn't work
Speaker 1: like that because you know, that's one of the difficult
Speaker 1: things about production inside of a group. You know, somebody
Speaker 1: has to make a decision to say the word no,
Speaker 1: you know, and and and and and that's tough when
Speaker 1: it's a so called equal member of the royalty situation,
Speaker 1: because no, I don't want to use that song. No,
Speaker 1: I don't think you should play it like that. Someone
Speaker 1: has to be that that that director, you know, and basically,
Speaker 1: you know, a reef personality was not like you know,
Speaker 1: he was a gentle guy, gentleman, you know, so you
Speaker 1: know it would come to me and some cases me
Speaker 1: and him, but I'd always blame it on him. I
Speaker 1: can't use that. I can't do that. But that's that's
Speaker 1: how it was. I mean, I would bring the seed
Speaker 1: in and you know, uh, he unfortunately did did his work.
Speaker 1: Ethic was was not the same. You know, he didn't
Speaker 1: he didn't really feel like you know, we had an
Speaker 1: instance one time where prior to Jesus Christ Superstar, uh,
Speaker 1: a fellow from the from the Broadway world said, you
Speaker 1: know what, we need a rock musical. Would you guys
Speaker 1: be interested in writing a rock musical? And I said,
Speaker 1: oh my god, are you kidding me? We'll be the first,
Speaker 1: whether we flop or not, the first, the first, you
Speaker 1: always remember the first. And you know, again I would
Speaker 1: get myself in trouble. Edie said, why we don't work
Speaker 1: hard enough? You're gonna you want to work harder. I said, don't, don't, don't, don't.
Speaker 1: Don't you understand you know the encyclopedias, they're gonna the first.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. See, so it was a different thing.
Speaker 1: Now in the book you say that after that album,
Speaker 1: rove an album, you end up in California. You go
Speaker 1: to Mexico, they start making a record without you. They
Speaker 1: put out the Greed Sid's album time Piece. Tell me
Speaker 1: what was really happening there? Yeah, what was really happening? Well,
Speaker 1: we were in San Diego and I had a fever.
Speaker 1: I wasn't feeling well. I had something going on in
Speaker 1: my body that shouldn't happened. And so um, my road
Speaker 1: manager and myself we decided, come on, let's take some
Speaker 1: time off. You know, I don't feel good, you know.
Speaker 1: And then right around that same period of time, I realized,
Speaker 1: You realize that I'm supporting a war effort here with
Speaker 1: my taxes. The hell with this, Let's get out of here. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I went to Mexico. We went to Acapulco. In those days,
Speaker 1: it was safe to go to Acapulco. You know, you
Speaker 1: could go in and go out and see what tonejo
Speaker 1: And uh, really, what happened up north? In the in
Speaker 1: the in the in the is that Sid? He made
Speaker 1: a mistake? You know. Sid goes, oh my god, what
Speaker 1: are we gonna do without Felix? So the other guy
Speaker 1: said her, up, what do you think we are chopped liver.
Speaker 1: I mean, what do you think, you know? And they revolted, see,
Speaker 1: and they called up a ref. Atlantic said, we're going
Speaker 1: in without him. So anyway, unfortunately, nothing happened in the student.
Speaker 1: So Atlantic says, how about we doing greatest hits? Sounds
Speaker 1: like a good idea. I was coming back, I was
Speaker 1: doing right, you know. I was just you know, you know,
Speaker 1: just kind of like feeling my oats a little bit,
Speaker 1: that's all. How long were you in Mexico? I don't
Speaker 1: even know, three, not that long, you know, a couple
Speaker 1: of months probably, you know, we just you know, we
Speaker 1: just did we just kind of, you know, I remember
Speaker 1: it vividly. I mean, I had so much fun, you know,
Speaker 1: because we were trying to attempting Spanish. You know. So
Speaker 1: so I was little, I was not that healthy. It
Speaker 1: was a little well, and we go to the beach
Speaker 1: and I'd say to my road guy Andy, I said,
Speaker 1: so what happened down He says, well, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think I think I got a connection, but I'm
Speaker 1: not sure whether we're buying it from them or they're
Speaker 1: buying there from us. Okay, you mentioned earlier and also
Speaker 1: in the book there's a lot about the Swami. Yeah,
Speaker 1: expian upon that because most people don't know that well,
Speaker 1: you know, Uh, the the interesting thing in those days
Speaker 1: again we go back to the fact that the Beatles
Speaker 1: were this light that kept turning people onto different things.
Speaker 1: One of the things that we're turning us onto was
Speaker 1: was the yoga was the spiritual world. You know, I
Speaker 1: really didn't need to be turned onto the spiritual world
Speaker 1: because I came from a very spiritual family. I mean,
Speaker 1: my mom, you know, the rest our soul was was
Speaker 1: very very religious human being, and so it was always
Speaker 1: around us. Someone gave me a book, Uh, it was
Speaker 1: called Autobiography of a Yoga Yogi by this Paramahansa Yoganda
Speaker 1: and and and and when I read the book. When
Speaker 1: I started reading the book, it's the same thing as
Speaker 1: when I heard Alan Freed, It's the same things when
Speaker 1: I heard the organ player. I just got immersed in
Speaker 1: this world that in in those days and and this
Speaker 1: is not that long ago. I mean in terms, it
Speaker 1: was in the in the twentieth century, in in in
Speaker 1: India that a monk would go through in their lives.
Speaker 1: Their lives are totally different from ours. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: they have this thing called sanyas, which is a you know,
Speaker 1: you decide or you're decided by your cast or I
Speaker 1: don't know. In some cases, I'm sure it's not just
Speaker 1: cast that you should be a monkey, should be a priest.
Speaker 1: So what they do is they they give up everything.
Speaker 1: They give up their names, they give up their wealth,
Speaker 1: they give up anything that they may have. They're even
Speaker 1: not supposed to have a wife or anything like that.
Speaker 1: In the beginning, they're supposed to put out a yellow
Speaker 1: or orange robe and go out into the you know
Speaker 1: world with a bowl. And in those days, the the
Speaker 1: you know, the the people would see them, you know,
Speaker 1: person in a robe. They divide him in the house
Speaker 1: and they give him food, they give them rest, they
Speaker 1: give him and what what they would ask in return.
Speaker 1: It's called SATs on readings. At the end of the meal,
Speaker 1: I want to hear your wisdom. So you know, when
Speaker 1: somebody was you know, chibe, because I had nothing to say.
Speaker 1: But if somebody was real, you know, you're very fortunate
Speaker 1: because you brought a holy man into your house, and
Speaker 1: you know there's a blessing that goes with that, and
Speaker 1: there's certainly a lot of wisdom that goes, So I'm
Speaker 1: reading about this well and I I said, wow, look whoa hello,
Speaker 1: you know. And at the end of the book there's
Speaker 1: a sentence that says, if you want a teacher Guru,
Speaker 1: ask and you shall receive. And this is where the
Speaker 1: story gets really interested in again. This is in the book.
Speaker 1: This gentleman by the name is Steve Paul had this
Speaker 1: place in New York called the Scene. And the Scene
Speaker 1: was a place where um a lot of people when
Speaker 1: Jimmie Hendrix went there, and Tiny Tim was a major
Speaker 1: staple there, and jose Feliciano was. It was a really
Speaker 1: cool place, but it was small, and every once in
Speaker 1: a while Steve would, you know, run into some financial difficulties.
Speaker 1: He ended up managing the Winter's brothers, John and Edgar,
Speaker 1: you know, and uh he would call us up and say,
Speaker 1: come on, you guys, come down and do a free
Speaker 1: bon me man I need to you know. And of course,
Speaker 1: you know, Velvet Underground used to play there, you know. Uh,
Speaker 1: so he's doing this television show, you know, uh, pilot
Speaker 1: for w N E W. And he said, would you
Speaker 1: guys come down and you know, be part of the show.
Speaker 1: He called up, said, you know and of course, why not.
Speaker 1: I walk in the door, you know, and I got
Speaker 1: my entourage with me, big stars, whatever, and I see
Speaker 1: a guru sitting on the floor with a circle around him.
Speaker 1: I said, okay, sure that started it. I just said
Speaker 1: to my roadmance and said hold this, I will be
Speaker 1: right back. And I got online to meet him, and
Speaker 1: I met him, you know, and and it was a major, major,
Speaker 1: major experience, you know. And I have this again in
Speaker 1: the book because this is this is what I wanted
Speaker 1: to write about instead of the litigation and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: You know. So how extensive did you get into it
Speaker 1: and what did you ultimately learn from the Guru? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't get in too many things. Like
Speaker 1: when I see a pool, I don't I don't just
Speaker 1: put my foot in it. I'm one of these guys.
Speaker 1: I dive right in, you know what I mean. I'm there.
Speaker 1: I got very involved. I spent a good amount of
Speaker 1: my life. You know. The the interesting part is why
Speaker 1: you go there in the beginning, you know, UM. I
Speaker 1: had a number of reasons that UM brought me to him,
Speaker 1: you know. Uh be first of all, you know, I
Speaker 1: lost my mom, you know, when when I was thirteen
Speaker 1: I couldn't really figure that out, you know. And and
Speaker 1: you know, you go to the rabbi, go to the priest,
Speaker 1: you know something. Can anybody help me out of here? Man?
Speaker 1: You know, I need a little help. I needed somebody
Speaker 1: to how come this happened to a very spiritual lady.
Speaker 1: And I say as a joke, but my dad he
Speaker 1: went to church when it was reigning because it was
Speaker 1: what was dry inside, you know. So but I couldn't
Speaker 1: compute that, you know that. So I needed I needed
Speaker 1: some spiritual guidance, you know, some Can you tell me
Speaker 1: what this is all about? Man? Because I'm I'm you know,
Speaker 1: and and then you know you you you also you've
Speaker 1: got to be careful, you know, with with with with
Speaker 1: the drugs that are out there. You know, you could
Speaker 1: you could really lose your your brain, you know, and
Speaker 1: and and and all this is all around us of course,
Speaker 1: because I remember one time we went to California, we
Speaker 1: met the Smothers brothers. You know, we almost didn't return alive.
Speaker 1: You know, I mean these guys out in California that
Speaker 1: that's a whole different world of you know, funning games,
Speaker 1: you know, going out there, you know, and and and
Speaker 1: average white band. The drummer didn't even get back he
Speaker 1: did the first trip out there. He overdoes so I
Speaker 1: need I I said, no, I I wasn't brought up
Speaker 1: by this, you know what I mean? And then there's
Speaker 1: a third thing, you know, basically, which is you know
Speaker 1: again from my family. You know families, you know, they
Speaker 1: used to really influence their kids. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: They used to. Well they still do, but I mean
Speaker 1: in a positive way. My dad said, just I'll tell
Speaker 1: you why you want to be a musician. I'll tell
Speaker 1: you what. But you see in front of my office here,
Speaker 1: I got that sign I'm a doctor or a dentist
Speaker 1: until I resigned. You better keep having hit records, dude,
Speaker 1: because as soon as you stop, you gone, you out
Speaker 1: of here? And boy, was that right? You don't make
Speaker 1: a couple of hit record for a record company? Did
Speaker 1: I did? I do? I know? You? You You know, weren't
Speaker 1: you that? Uh? And you know when that comes and
Speaker 1: you said, like, oh my god, I mean this is right, man.
Speaker 1: You know what? You gotta keep doing this, don't you? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know you don't think about that when you're you know,
Speaker 1: when you first meet her, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: First meet her, you say like, wow, this is gonna
Speaker 1: be and then you said like wait a minute. Anyway,
Speaker 1: it was it was again, this is all in the book.
Speaker 1: I kind of had, like, you know, a rude awakening
Speaker 1: to the reality of the world. You know, people like
Speaker 1: Sam and Dave, people like that. At the label, you know,
Speaker 1: there's an a k come up and come here. Let
Speaker 1: me talk to you. Bro. Don't don't you understand me?
Speaker 1: You you you gotta stop smiling. Man, this ain't a
Speaker 1: game out here. I oh, we always not. Yeah, wake
Speaker 1: up and I woke up. Let's go a little bit
Speaker 1: deeper than the catalog. Tell us the story and people
Speaker 1: gotta be free. O. Well, this story, you know, is
Speaker 1: really because of Bobby Kennedy. You know, I was working, uh,
Speaker 1: we were working for his campaign. I was very very
Speaker 1: involved with you know, I really wanted to you know,
Speaker 1: we really wanted to change the world in our day.
Speaker 1: You know, we we really gave it our best shot.
Speaker 1: You know, we we wanted to bring people the exact
Speaker 1: opposite of where we are right now with this this
Speaker 1: horror that's going on both within the United States and
Speaker 1: within Europe and Russia. You know, we didn't want that
Speaker 1: we want to stop. Stop all this peace, love, joy, happiness,
Speaker 1: the Golden Rule. Come on, you know, the messiahy can
Speaker 1: come until we all have it together. So let let's
Speaker 1: get it together. You know what I'm saying. I mean,
Speaker 1: what what is it? We were really, really really into that.
Speaker 1: While I was seeing this young lady who was at
Speaker 1: the assassination of Bobby Kennedy. She was there in Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: and I was, I was, I had a short wave radio,
Speaker 1: was in Jamaica. I was taking a little hiatus and
Speaker 1: and and I heard this, and man, it just two
Speaker 1: wow Martin Luther King. Now this man, I've got to
Speaker 1: say something. I got to do something. And that's how
Speaker 1: people got to be free started. It started as a
Speaker 1: kind of like a you know, okay, funding games, funding games.
Speaker 1: I just want to say something, let's do this. And
Speaker 1: it came out of my hands. It came out, you know,
Speaker 1: and Atlantic said, no, no, you don't want to do this.
Speaker 1: He said, what do you what do you mean? There's
Speaker 1: nothing and there's a Golden Rule. It's just very s No, no,
Speaker 1: you don't want to get involved in anything. Wexler West
Speaker 1: just so oh my god. I mean, he he was
Speaker 1: something I don't know if you ever had a chance
Speaker 1: to meet him or re view him, but he was
Speaker 1: quite a man. I mean, those those those early record executives.
Speaker 1: There was something else and he would pop the nitro
Speaker 1: glycer in the middle of an augument. Shut up, listen
Speaker 1: to me. Wait, shut up, you know, because oh boy,
Speaker 1: great man, great, great people. So how do you convince
Speaker 1: him to put it out? We were in charge, man,
Speaker 1: We we had we had We had a phenomenal contract
Speaker 1: in terms of control. We were the producers. We were
Speaker 1: where the buck stopped, you know, and and they couldn't
Speaker 1: really overrule us as far as like contractually that's written.
Speaker 1: We had free studio time. Think of that. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: go in there and camp out, man, and make our product.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know it was it was. It was wonderland.
Speaker 1: It really was, and and and and and then and
Speaker 1: then of course you know, like, so we ruin it.
Speaker 1: That's a good idea, Yeah, let's ruin it. So ultimately
Speaker 1: the hits dry up. Now to what degree is that
Speaker 1: because you don't have amuse And what does it feel
Speaker 1: like when the hits dry up? Well, you know, it's
Speaker 1: scary to say the least, you know, because uh, you know,
Speaker 1: you turn around and say, well, how come you know
Speaker 1: we we won the pennant last year and you know
Speaker 1: we're we're in for the fifth place this year. There's
Speaker 1: there any reason that we can rectify, you know, and
Speaker 1: you try to rectify it, and there's a lot of reasons,
Speaker 1: you know, summer internal, summer external. You know, the the
Speaker 1: the owners of the record company has a lot to
Speaker 1: do with what type of priority they're going to give
Speaker 1: you a product. You know, Uh, we were the first
Speaker 1: wide act on Atlantic. We were the first band on Atlantic.
Speaker 1: We were the first challenge George, that's the wrong word,
Speaker 1: not challenging. First Uh, inclusive group that had anything to
Speaker 1: do with the British invasion. We were there first. Okay,
Speaker 1: now we got a wreatha Now okay, we got you know,
Speaker 1: fill in the blink. Now the priority goes to a
Speaker 1: different place. Not only that, but the internal strife that
Speaker 1: was happening, It did not preclude them saying we're gonna
Speaker 1: put you know, X million dollars into this group because
Speaker 1: they're really dysfunctional right now. They're they're not they're not
Speaker 1: really doing they're not not firing at all cylinders. So
Speaker 1: when they take that that. You know, that publicity promotional
Speaker 1: uh fund for on of a better word. You know,
Speaker 1: a lot of people don't know what used to happen.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it still happens. In the record companies,
Speaker 1: you have a meeting every Monday and they decide your fate.
Speaker 1: This record is stopping right now. We're not putting any
Speaker 1: more money in it. Well your records going, man, that's it,
Speaker 1: You're done. We don't know about that. You know, we think,
Speaker 1: you know, the audience likes this, so they buy it. No, No,
Speaker 1: that's that's very naive. That's not what's happening out there,
Speaker 1: you know, and you know, you know better than everybody
Speaker 1: what it's all about. Now. It's just it's a different world.
Speaker 1: And I have my own theories about that. Started after Woodstock,
Speaker 1: you know, when the corporations came in and said, ha,
Speaker 1: there's gold in them there hills. And then that did it,
Speaker 1: you know, that beautiful event changed. You know. Okay, well
Speaker 1: we'll create a group, why not. You know, we don't
Speaker 1: have to use God's word. We'll just do our own.
Speaker 1: We'll put our you know, famous guys together and get
Speaker 1: an all star team. Sometimes it doesn't work, but anyway.
Speaker 1: So you know, those are part of the transitions that most,
Speaker 1: you know, people in our industry have to face. You know,
Speaker 1: whether you're a fighter or whether you're entertainer or you're
Speaker 1: a musician, you know you're gonna hit a point where, okay,
Speaker 1: you know, the young guys they probably it's probably this
Speaker 1: their their world now, you know, they take it over.
Speaker 1: What should I do? Well, that's where your guru comes in,
Speaker 1: because when I first met him, I told him a
Speaker 1: similar story. All it was about, you know, like they're
Speaker 1: producing hit records in a row rather than you know,
Speaker 1: disappearing from the face of the earth. And and he
Speaker 1: said to me these words that you know, He said,
Speaker 1: how old are you? And I was in my twenties,
Speaker 1: early twenties pair least, you know. And he said, well,
Speaker 1: you found out about this way before most people who
Speaker 1: find out that. And I'm using my English instead of his,
Speaker 1: because he would never use my words. But the whole
Speaker 1: thing is a croc. I don't care if you're a
Speaker 1: lawyer or doctor, you know, you name it. You just
Speaker 1: found out earlier. I said, what do you mean? He said, well,
Speaker 1: that's the world the world. Come with me, come over here,
Speaker 1: joined this team. We don't experience that over here, okay.
Speaker 1: So I was ready for it when the ship started
Speaker 1: to sink, and when it went down, I was ready
Speaker 1: for it. So it was the decades ensued the swami
Speaker 1: helped you cope or did you say, hey, I I
Speaker 1: still have it, I want I got it, I want
Speaker 1: my chance, I want to have another hit. Well, you
Speaker 1: know that's you can ask some great questions, man, because
Speaker 1: you know, when you get involved with it with a guru,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, it's it's really a commitment on to
Speaker 1: two sides, his side and your side. He doesn't just
Speaker 1: say yeah, I sign them up, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: They take a commitment on that's very very very very
Speaker 1: very very deep. It's eternal. They're kind of responsible for
Speaker 1: your karma from that point on. That's a big statement.
Speaker 1: And when we on the other side get involved with them,
Speaker 1: we go into a place that you really never leave
Speaker 1: because you know, I pray in Sanskrit and Hindu, I
Speaker 1: I know the language. You know, I my whole life.
Speaker 1: You know. His style is is to just purify my
Speaker 1: my mind and my body as much as I can,
Speaker 1: you know, and still be part of the world. You know,
Speaker 1: and and and so it's it's me. That's what he made.
Speaker 1: You know. There there's there's a theory. I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's correct in terms of numbers, but every twelve years,
Speaker 1: every cell in your body changes, it's reborn, it's regrown.
Speaker 1: The idea is to be with the Guru for twelve years,
Speaker 1: every cell of your body has been infected in with
Speaker 1: you know, his grace, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 1: So your whole body is like I'm a yogi. I'm
Speaker 1: a yogi, you know, I mean, you know, it's really interesting.
Speaker 1: I mean I could go on for hours about it,
Speaker 1: but you know this is who I am. So you
Speaker 1: know he he prepared us, you know, like for example,
Speaker 1: like your physical body. You know, I'm close to eight,
Speaker 1: you know, and and I learned. You know what, Man,
Speaker 1: if you if you take care of your body and
Speaker 1: you take care of your mind, I can still sing,
Speaker 1: you know, I can still swim, man, I can still walk,
Speaker 1: I can still you know, thank you, Because that's what
Speaker 1: it's about. If do the exercises mentally physically, keep your
Speaker 1: you're gonna be okay. But if you don't, chances are
Speaker 1: you you know, the genetics are going to take over
Speaker 1: your d n A and your RNA and and you're
Speaker 1: you're gonna start hurting man and in later life. So
Speaker 1: you know, I owe a lot to that that education. Okay,
Speaker 1: going back to the mundane mundane from the ethereal, how
Speaker 1: did you hook up with Laura Nero? And he really like, well, okay,
Speaker 1: everybody's familiar with the name David Geffen. Of course, David
Speaker 1: Geffen introduced me to her. And what happened basically is,
Speaker 1: let's start from the beginning. How did you know David Geff? Well,
Speaker 1: David Giff, I knew you were gonna act that that's
Speaker 1: so cool. David Geffer was part of an agency called
Speaker 1: I think it was G A C. And you know,
Speaker 1: he invited he wanted to sign the Rascals to his agency.
Speaker 1: We were with a different agency with ABC, so he
Speaker 1: got to touch with me and he invited me to
Speaker 1: his this and that's when I realized that I was
Speaker 1: dealing with a business genius, because before I walked out
Speaker 1: of the room, he had me completely convinced that I
Speaker 1: should be we should be with his agency. And then
Speaker 1: he left a week later, so I realized, Wow, this
Speaker 1: guy just did you switch? I switched but he was gone.
Speaker 1: See he was so good. Obviously, you know, you don't
Speaker 1: get to that state, you know, in the world because
Speaker 1: you know somebody you know unless you inherit it. He's
Speaker 1: smart guy, man, really smart. But I mean I he said,
Speaker 1: how would you like to meet the most difficult person
Speaker 1: you've ever met? I said, wow, what do you mean?
Speaker 1: He says, well, I managed Laura Nero and she needs
Speaker 1: a producer. She really likes your music. Would you be interested?
Speaker 1: I love to produce? I said, of course, yes, a
Speaker 1: little did I know is gonna fall in love from
Speaker 1: my head to my toe with one of the most
Speaker 1: charming you know in eccentric talented human beings on earth? What? What?
Speaker 1: What a gift? That was? So? What was it like
Speaker 1: working with it? What was she like? She's a bronx girl,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I mean she would she
Speaker 1: would have you know, she would. She would dangle Daniel
Speaker 1: a cigarette out of her mouth and if she didn't
Speaker 1: like what you said, she'd hit you. She was fantastic,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I've said it so many times.
Speaker 1: I have never met a purer artist in my life.
Speaker 1: You know, she could care less about sales. She could
Speaker 1: care less about publicity. She wanted what she heard, what
Speaker 1: she envisioned. I hear it like this, I want to
Speaker 1: record it like this. And that's that's really the rub here.
Speaker 1: That's the interesting part of this is because you know,
Speaker 1: there's certain rules unwritten that you know, the radio stations
Speaker 1: are not going to play this song if you do this,
Speaker 1: don't stop and go, you know, especially in the A M. Days,
Speaker 1: and you know, don't change keys like that, don't don't
Speaker 1: go like this a mempic, you know. But she did
Speaker 1: all that, you know, and you know, Clive and the
Speaker 1: people at the labels say what are you doing? You
Speaker 1: can't do this, and and she just that's what I hear.
Speaker 1: So Fifth Dimension, Blood, Sweat and Tears, the Three Dog Night.
Speaker 1: They say, okay, we're gonna take out all that, and
Speaker 1: we got number one record, you know, and they did.
Speaker 1: They had number one after number one with her songs,
Speaker 1: because songs were brilliant, absolutely genius. So, you know, I
Speaker 1: really don't know what else he canna say. But I
Speaker 1: never met anybody like that. I never will meet anybody
Speaker 1: like that. Were you around when she split from Geffen? Yeah,
Speaker 1: what was that like? Well, you know, that's an interesting story.
Speaker 1: You know, you know, I mean, you have to be
Speaker 1: really careful when you talk about like this. These cult
Speaker 1: people like Laura and he In Monkeys, their audience is
Speaker 1: very sensitive, very sensitive. You can't say anything negative. But
Speaker 1: I just I'll preface it by saying like this, if
Speaker 1: somebody's gonna screw me and make me a millionaire at
Speaker 1: the same time, I may not be too angry. Okay,
Speaker 1: that puts a bowl on it. Yes, let's move back
Speaker 1: to you. So in the time you have left somewhere
Speaker 1: between a minute and twenty five years, anything you want
Speaker 1: to do, anything you need to do, anything you want
Speaker 1: to accomplish. Ah. Yeah, you know I recently, you know
Speaker 1: that a symphony with my music that I loved, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean that that was fun. And I'd like to
Speaker 1: crack into that a little more because I had these
Speaker 1: fantastic charts done, you know, and uh, you know Frankie Valley,
Speaker 1: you know he does them all the time, you know,
Speaker 1: And and and the night that I did and I
Speaker 1: did it. We have a fantastic symphony here in Nashville.
Speaker 1: You know, this is one of the best. You know,
Speaker 1: the musicians here really want to be here, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, because they can also work during the
Speaker 1: day and do sessions stuff. They make good money here.
Speaker 1: I gotta fend Anyway, When I did that, Frankie texted
Speaker 1: me just before the show and he said, You're never
Speaker 1: gonna want to do anything else. Man, I'm paraphrasing, but
Speaker 1: this is it. You're gonna You're gonna freak. And it
Speaker 1: was just like, oh my god, you know, and all
Speaker 1: the emotions running through me. I mean, wow, you know,
Speaker 1: this is how I started, you know, with symphonic you know,
Speaker 1: desires or whatever. Wow, it was fun that that's the
Speaker 1: only world I really really would want to crack that
Speaker 1: I really haven't been able to crack into as much
Speaker 1: as i'd like to now. Frequently, when you know, when
Speaker 1: people age, they get a victory lap. Jeff Beck had
Speaker 1: a victory lab. Joni Mitchell now has an an ending
Speaker 1: victory lap. Noth of these people don't deserve it. Do
Speaker 1: you feel ripped off that you haven't quite gotten your
Speaker 1: victory lap? As an older statement, who's really made their
Speaker 1: impact upon the musical world, Well, the victory lap in
Speaker 1: terms of uh, you know, like, uh, there's a there's
Speaker 1: a lot of different uh you know, stairs to that
Speaker 1: you know, basically. One of them is of course financial,
Speaker 1: you know. Uh. A second of all is like you know,
Speaker 1: your name in the world or your your position in
Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, you know, but but not not not
Speaker 1: like that, you know, I mean, you know, the the
Speaker 1: interesting thing is that about Oh god, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: sink time now. Around two thousand and eighteen, uh pc,
Speaker 1: as they say, pre COVID, you know, right right right
Speaker 1: back when the world was open. I went to Hawaii,
Speaker 1: uh doing one of my fields Cavalery Rascal shows, and
Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting. And if I'm taking too long
Speaker 1: with these answers, please tell me, because oh no, no,
Speaker 1: this is what I want. Absolutely. Rule of wrestles were
Speaker 1: immense in Hawaii for a number of reasons. Uh. The
Speaker 1: simplest way to say is that is that we were
Speaker 1: the closest thing they could get to R and B
Speaker 1: for a lot of reasons. I don't know if people know,
Speaker 1: but you know, in Hawaii there's a lot of reasons,
Speaker 1: you know. Uh, we were the closest thing. So these
Speaker 1: DJs that were out there, and these people, Tom Moffatt
Speaker 1: was his name, and this gentleman named the Beard made
Speaker 1: us beatles. They adored us and I said, this is great.
Speaker 1: Let's help with the rest of the world. Let's just
Speaker 1: be famous here, you know, because this is this is nice. Well,
Speaker 1: one of the things that we did in those days is, uh,
Speaker 1: we were we were invited to go to the other islands,
Speaker 1: the Outer Islands. Now, the problem was that in the
Speaker 1: Outer Islands there were no stages, there were no theaters.
Speaker 1: I mean, these people were doing sugarcane and pineapple and
Speaker 1: just small little things. So okay, well we're the free concerts.
Speaker 1: We're gonna invite all all of the you know, the
Speaker 1: the Hawaiians that want to come and the people who
Speaker 1: lived there, and uh, we're gonna do it free in
Speaker 1: and just set us up in the park. Okay, now
Speaker 1: we turn the clock back, I mean forward what sixty
Speaker 1: years now, people who are now established elderly. Is one
Speaker 1: case as followed as a candy factory. It makes that
Speaker 1: famous macadamia candy. They come to the show and they said,
Speaker 1: when I was sixteen, I'll never forget you guys, and
Speaker 1: here you are. And I said, yeah, he says, let
Speaker 1: me ask you, is there any way you could bring
Speaker 1: the guys together one more time, one more time? And
Speaker 1: I said, you know what, at some point in life,
Speaker 1: you gotta start put the axe and the hatchet and
Speaker 1: arrows down. You gotta say, hey, you know what, man,
Speaker 1: why not? Why don't we do three or four shows?
Speaker 1: We do Los Angeles, we do New York, we do Chicago,
Speaker 1: and we do MAUI. Oh wow, And then we go home.
Speaker 1: You know what is it? Three to five shows? You know,
Speaker 1: say goodbye to our friends, say goodbye to our fans.
Speaker 1: So I go back home. I called up, you know,
Speaker 1: I call a Bobby, my manager. I said, what do
Speaker 1: you think? And he said, look, you know, I thought
Speaker 1: we weren't allowed to say that word around here? What
Speaker 1: word rascals? I said, yeah, well you're you're right here.
Speaker 1: We're not allowed to say that word around I understand,
Speaker 1: you know, but what do you think? He said, Look,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. Get on the phone, call the guys,
Speaker 1: see what happens. Well, I'm still in court because I
Speaker 1: called up Eddie. I said, Eddie, what what do you think? Man?
Speaker 1: I scared the hell out of him. You know, yeah,
Speaker 1: what do you want? Man? I said, well, you know,
Speaker 1: what do you think? Do three or four shows? Go
Speaker 1: out there and just you know, rock and roll or something,
Speaker 1: he says, well, I'm sorry, man, I I gotta commitment,
Speaker 1: you know, I gotta commitment with Steve Vans, and you
Speaker 1: know I can't do it. So you sure y see you.
Speaker 1: I remember I called you, and I called Jean Gene. Gene.
Speaker 1: He's ready to go. That's one thing I gotta say
Speaker 1: about Gene Cornish in those days. I mean, he's unfortunately
Speaker 1: not too well now. He wanted to work. He adored
Speaker 1: the stage. He made a pact with his mom when
Speaker 1: she took him to an early concert in Rochester. That's
Speaker 1: what I want to do. I want to be up there, man.
Speaker 1: And he really wants to be up there. He loves
Speaker 1: it's part of his That's that's that's Gene. He exists
Speaker 1: as no family, no wife, no kids. He's a musician
Speaker 1: and he wants to be on and and and and
Speaker 1: and Dino. You know again, you know I I just
Speaker 1: try to try to put him back into and it
Speaker 1: will come on. Let's go to work, man, let's let's
Speaker 1: let's why, let's let's do and And that was unfortunate,
Speaker 1: that was really unfortunate the way that that turned out,
Speaker 1: because it didn't turn out well. You know, Jane said, yes,
Speaker 1: everybody else said no, and so it's it didn't happen,
Speaker 1: you know, and and and you know, I'm really going,
Speaker 1: you know, very carefully through the uh tiptoeing through the
Speaker 1: tulips here because I had to be careful. But basically,
Speaker 1: you know what it is is, come on, man, we're
Speaker 1: almost eighty freaking years old. What the hell are we
Speaker 1: gonna do? Man, Let's just go out and have some
Speaker 1: fun and make some money. Oh God forbid, and make
Speaker 1: some money. Wow, she's wow. It's very disappointing. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm so disappointed. But these guys that just you know,
Speaker 1: they don't realize what they have and what they mean
Speaker 1: to people, and how many people really adore the group.
Speaker 1: I love it. It's part of their it's part of
Speaker 1: their youth. Well, you've been able to survive both on
Speaker 1: royalties from songwriting and records that are have the other
Speaker 1: guys been able to survive all these years? Yes? And no? Yes,
Speaker 1: me and Eddie was a writer. The other two guys
Speaker 1: not really. You know, they had a tough time. But
Speaker 1: you know, you also have to pay attention, you know,
Speaker 1: more more than ever today. I mean, like I say,
Speaker 1: you know, when you get a check don't don't spend
Speaker 1: the whole check, you know what I mean when your
Speaker 1: advisors tell you, you you know, you can't afford that horse. Uh,
Speaker 1: you shouldn't get a rules. You know. If you do it,
Speaker 1: you know at the time, you're gonna be very happy,
Speaker 1: but not for long because tomorrow is right around the corner,
Speaker 1: you know. And so that's basically you gotta pay attention.
Speaker 1: You know, we ad advisors and you gotta listen to
Speaker 1: the advisors. So what are you most proud of at
Speaker 1: this point? Oh, just the fact that I'm still doing it,
Speaker 1: you know. And you know, I just you know, I
Speaker 1: get a chance to seriously be around people like you,
Speaker 1: you know, because I remember when we first met, you know,
Speaker 1: I did that. Yeah, I just really enjoy what I do,
Speaker 1: you know, and and and and it's like anything else.
Speaker 1: I mean, you do not try to tell my kids
Speaker 1: all the time. It's not all you know, flowers and
Speaker 1: all that. But you know, you gotta, you gotta, you
Speaker 1: gotta deal with it. But if you're doing something that
Speaker 1: you really love all your life, there's really not too
Speaker 1: much to complain about, you know, I mean, seriously, you
Speaker 1: could complained, but nobody listens. Well, one thing. None of
Speaker 1: us are gonna live forever, but these songs are gonna
Speaker 1: live forever, and that's a very cool thing. And certainly
Speaker 1: they live forever within me. So Felix taking thanks so
Speaker 1: much for taking the time to speak. Well, I knew
Speaker 1: it was gonna be fun man, and and and I
Speaker 1: really hope you realize how much I'm kind of a
Speaker 1: fan because I listened to you and I really enjoyed
Speaker 1: meeting you way back then and I did again today.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Well, as I say, I have
Speaker 1: a lot more questions. We'll have to do in person sometime,
Speaker 1: but you know, I don't want to burn out the
Speaker 1: audience completely, but thanks again. This was great. I enjoyed
Speaker 1: every moment of it, and thank you. And I just
Speaker 1: gotta say before it Abby gets mad at me, Felix
Speaker 1: Cavalry Music dot com. That's where the book is, okay, absolutely,
Speaker 1: And the book comes out one day launch twenty second okay.
Speaker 1: So people, especially in today's day, where you can buy
Speaker 1: it online or in your store, it's fully available. It's
Speaker 1: I'm the audience just have to make that effort. As
Speaker 1: I say, it's really a whole tale, not just for
Speaker 1: hardcore Rascal's fans, although everybody from our generation really was.
Speaker 1: So until next time. This is Bob left sex