WEBVTT - Felix Cavaliere 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:13.000 Welcome, Welcome, brocome back to the Bob Westset's podcast. My 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:18.040 guest today is the Rascal himself, Felix Cavalier. Felix, great 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:19.919 to have you here. That's great to see you. Great 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:21.960 to see it's been a while. Just before we started, 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:24.759 we're talking about the pronunciation of your last name. Yes, 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:28.440 and you know many Anglo people will say Cavalier, You 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:31.800 say Cavaliery. You were talking about the italianate version. You 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:34.559 were talking about John Sebastan getting you in trouble. Tell 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:36.080 us a little bit more there. Well, what I was 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:39.040 saying is John Sebastian. You know, his real name is 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:43.920 is Italian. His last name is Puis and he speaks fluent, 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:47.880 fluent Italian. So we did a TV show back called 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:53.280 Deja View, and he announced me the correct way CAVALIERTI, well, 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:55.600 I have enough trouble. I lived down in Nashville. You 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.560 know what I mean. Nashville. They stop at calv they 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:01.640 don't even try the rest. I feel like calv It's 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:04.320 it's not that hard. So you know, as I say, 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:06.479 I'm proud of my heritage as most of us are, 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:09.280 and should know. Yeah, most people, some people change their name. 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:11.720 I never wanted to change my name. So why does 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:14.160 the New York boy end up living in Nashville? Came 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:17.240 down here on work, came down here many years ago, 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:20.160 and uh, the first thing that happened is I started 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:25.080 to see musicians that I knew. Stepping Wolf, Bobby Gaudio 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:28.240 came down here later. I mean, it was amazing. Two 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:30.760 of Bruce Springsteen's guys were here, one of no longer 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:33.199 with us, Danny, you know. But uh, I said, what's 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:34.920 going on down here? And they said, well, you know, man, 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:37.000 this is the place, this is where you want to 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:40.640 be for writing and for music. And I said, you're kidding. 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:43.160 He said, no, this is true. That's why we're all here. Well, 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:46.319 it is music city and there's no doubt about it. Okay, 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:48.280 So when did you first come down and how long 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:50.720 have you lived there permanently? I got here eighty eight 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:54.240 on a permanent basis. When I first came down, I 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:57.040 was on what they called the Caravan of Stars Dick 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:03.960 Clark tour in nineteen sixty seven six, and I remember 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:07.040 working here in the daytime and it was the hottest 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:09.120 place I've ever been in my life because we worked 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:12.200 in the afternoon. Never dreamt that I would be I'd 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:16.400 be living here. But it's an interesting place for especially 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:20.080 for musicians and also for bachelorette's. We are the bachelorette 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:23.320 capital of the USA. Yeah, you know, I read about it. 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:26.040 Why is that? Why is that? Because these people down 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:29.000 here had an idea. They built a two million square 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:34.360 foot convention center, and they they attracted, you know, the 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:36.399 people that they wanted to come in. The convention here 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:40.120 is the companies, the corporations, and one of them that 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:44.480 they were interested was the bachelorettes. So they're here and 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:47.480 I think the word is oi oi what vay? Oh 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:51.560 my god, it's it's crazy. I mean, you know, they 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:54.520 come down here just like you know, you can imagine 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:57.200 at a at a bachelor party what happens, only they 0:02:57.240 --> 0:02:59.640 do this on the street in the open. They have 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.480 these little these little carts that go around where they 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:05.160 get loaded during the afternoon and clogged the streets up. 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:08.000 And it's very interesting. Okay, So you came there in 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:11.440 eight right, I certainly remember in the sixties and seventies 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:15.560 when the South was perceived as red deck and Republican. 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:20.079 Since you've been there, what is the change you've seen 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:23.639 in you know, thirty odd years. You know. The interesting 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:28.080 thing is this, I mean, obviously it's still a red state. However, 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:31.040 their their their patches, like for example, the city of 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:35.120 Nashville where so many of us have moved in that 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:37.840 it's kind of like purple now, you know what I mean, 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:40.600 it's not read anymore. So of course they're gonna change 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:43.080 that instantly. I mean, they're gonna redistrict and they're gonna 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:46.560 But I mean it's interesting because in the city of 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:50.000 uh Nashville, you know, they have a Democrat, they had 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:54.800 a Democratic administration. But in the rest of the state, no. 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.600 But I mean, like I say, it's just really interesting 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:00.800 because we're living down south. I'm living out south. So 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:02.920 you go back, you're talking about the Dick Clark caravan 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:04.840 and stars. Who else was on that tour and what 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:06.840 was that like? Well, I'll tell you Paul Revere and 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:12.520 the Raiders, my dear friend b J. B J. Thomas. Uh, 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:15.800 you know it was. It was so much fun. I mean, 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:18.279 those days are so different from now, you know, I mean, 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:22.640 uh we we uh we uh. Instead of being on 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:25.720 the bus where everyone else is, we rented one of 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:28.880 those RVs, you know, and we just you know, toured, 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:31.240 and so when the bus went to the show, we said, 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:32.919 we'll be right with you. You know, we take a 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:35.159 little detour and go down and see some of the sites, 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.200 you know. I mean I met my first wife on 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:40.640 that tour. I mean it was just you know, we 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:43.440 went to towns and cities that I never had heard of, 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:46.479 you know, in my life, you know, and you know, 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:50.600 in Kentucky and in Georgia and in Alabama, and you know, 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:56.120 we cemented a relationship down here with the the audience 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:59.479 because you know how they love soul music, R and 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.360 B and basically you know, we were a white R 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:06.360 and B band, so we we've always had a good 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:10.280 connection with the South. Okay, So who else was on 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:12.360 that tour and where were you? Were you the headliner 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:14.640 or was somebody else the headliner? No, I I don't 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:16.680 know headliner. I just know, you know, we we were 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:18.520 coming up. We were you know, we had just had 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:20.920 a couple of records hit, you know, and stuff like that, 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:23.920 and you know, b J was there, Paul Revere was there, 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:27.080 you know, and Mark Lindsay was there. Uh, you know, 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:30.360 of course with them. Uh and and I don't remember 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:32.039 any of the other ones, But boy, I tell you 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:33.560 it was it was a lot of fun. So how 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:35.880 did you meet your wife? Your first wife? Well, it's 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:38.279 it's just one of those things where somebody good looking 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:40.120 comes to the show and you know, you hook up. 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:42.800 I mean, it's that's very simple when you're when you're 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:45.120 young and you know, ready to rock and roll. You know, 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:47.840 it was really really, it was really great. Well let's 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:51.000 start with the first question, because now they're smartphone cameras 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:53.320 and it's change going on the road completely. Oh yes, 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.880 But for decades before that, young men went on the road, 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:01.039 did a lot of drugs, screwed a lot women. What 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:03.880 was your experience because you were at the beginning of Oh, 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.920 you know, I always remember Eddie Murphy when he started 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:09.400 talking about like, you know, in his day he could 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:11.720 do with these things without you know, exploding. I don't 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:14.599 know if you remember that bit he did. It was 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:16.680 very it was wide open in those days, you know, 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:19.880 the the uh summer of love so to speak, that 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:22.279 we talked about. I mean I mentioned that all the time. 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:27.240 It was really very very open in terms of you know, 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:29.960 like relationships with women of course, and with you know, 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:33.080 like of course, the drug situation. But it was all 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:35.800 kind of like in the beginning, it was very innocent, 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:39.440 you know, And and so I mean seriously, I mean 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:43.640 I remember working in California. When we first went to California, 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:46.080 we worked at the uh the Whiskey a go Go, 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:48.880 and there was a little place probably still there called 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:51.720 a Tropicana Motel, which is all we could have. Actually, no, 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:54.880 they tore it down with Duke's Coffee, you know, Yes, 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:57.840 legendary place, but they finally tore it down. And you know, 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:00.560 the point I was trying to make is that in evening, 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:03.760 when the sun goes down, there would be a knock 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:05.920 on the door and there would be sometimes this lovely 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:08.960 lady coming over and saying, can I stay here? I 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:11.280 got no place to stay? And you know, like you're 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:14.560 saying to yourself, am I dreaming? You know, so I 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:19.640 must be dreaming. But nowadays you wouldn't even open the door, 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:23.120 you know, I mean, you know, it would be well, 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:26.040 let's see what do you want with me? Harm what 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:27.800 do you what are you thinking here? Oh my god? 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:30.080 It was so different, you know, and you know it 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:33.680 less legendary. You know, when they did the Ultamont you know, 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:36.280 when the drugs started to become more serious and more 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:40.880 more deadly, more dangerous. Then of course, the the the 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:44.040 the the kind of naivete just kind of disappear. You know, 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:47.000 it went away, and you know it stayed away, so 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:50.760 you let the girl in, of course I did. Let's 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:54.880 also talk about drugs, because at first you were innocent. 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:59.680 What was your career in shall we say illegal drugs? Well, 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:01.320 you know, it's interesting that you know a lot of 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:04.960 us uh emulate people that we admire, you know, and 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:09.240 with all due respect people that I admire, we're doing drugs. Uh. 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:12.040 For example, Ray Charles. Uh So I was in the 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:14.640 impression that, you know, wow, if if you want to 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:16.760 be Ray Charles, you gotta you gotta do some things, 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:20.400 you know. And uh, what started off as an innocent 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:23.880 kind of like interest, you know, got to a point 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:27.160 where it might be dangerous. And and then, uh, as 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:29.760 I say, and you know in my book, I joined 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:33.520 the Joey D and the Starlighters and Joey D's band. 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:35.360 They were a lot older than I was. I mean, 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.319 they were obviously more mature and more into the so 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.320 when they started you know, getting me involved with let 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:45.439 sat marijuana, I couldn't find my feet, I couldn't tie 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:47.360 my shoes with it was I mean, it was like 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:51.040 a different thing, you know. Uh, it was strong, and 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:54.400 you know, in those days, people were really really careful 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:58.040 about even leaving a little seed around, you know, because 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:00.360 it was so illegal. You know. Now you go to 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:04.600 the store and you buy it. But fortunately, you know, 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:09.280 I got off that ship when I met my guru, 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:14.080 when I met my Swamy, Sacha dan Nanda, I realized, uh, 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:17.760 this is not gonna work. And you know, it's really 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:20.560 interesting because you go through I'm sure a lot of 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:23.080 the people know how the transition between can I go 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:26.920 on stage straight and be good? You're doing right? You can, 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:29.040 but you don't know that because you have these crutches, 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:31.280 you know. So it was it interesting. You know, it 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:34.360 was a learning experience for me, and I'm sure for 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:38.240 a lot of people. Did you do anything more significant 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:42.520 than marijuana and hash, cocaine, heroin? Well, you know, uh, 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:44.840 in those days, uh, you know, we would go to 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:48.880 for example, of San Francisco and some of these people say, hey, man, 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:52.200 I just made this. You want to try it now? 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:58.160 I'm high for three days. So but you know, yeah, 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.439 we I really did because I don't know if people 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:05.640 understand the experimenting stage that a lot of us in 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:08.280 the sixties were, you know, we were fearless. Most most 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.640 young people are feelers, you know, and uh, we just 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:14.840 wanted to explore the universe, you know, explore the cosmic 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:18.280 kind of like air up there. And you know I 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:22.560 wouldn't do it again, I mean honestly, but uh, you know, 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.040 I wasn't afraid, so I tried it, tried things, you know, 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:28.160 nothing really I never got I never liked being sad 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:31.400 or down, so I never did any of those things. Okay, 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:37.160 So then the question becomes writing, were drugs beneficial, irrelevant, inspirational? 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:39.760 I don't know. I mean, I really don't know. I 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:41.840 think that you know, as I say, when when you 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:45.559 try to do things without any kind of like stimulus, 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:47.240 you know, like I g Allan Poe, I mean, you 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:50.240 know the classic you know what he did, you know, 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.000 probably was cocaine. If I'm not mistaken to write, it's 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:56.079 not necessary to do that. The whole thing, you know, basically, 0:10:56.080 --> 0:11:00.480 when when people create is they get into a places 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:02.760 it's sort of like a meditative state. It's sort of 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:06.040 like a dream like state, which if you can induce 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:10.200 without you know, external you know, or internal stimulus, you 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:12.679 can do the same thing. But a lot of people 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:15.120 that can't stop, you know, the so called monkey mind, 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:17.720 you know, so they need something to chill, you know, 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:21.520 something to get to that place. Fortunately, I've always been 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:25.560 able to get to that place because as a young boy, Um, 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:30.280 you know, I was studying classical piano, and I had 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:32.960 you know, a piano in my home, and and and 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.080 and and I used to just go there and sit 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:39.280 and I could escape into this place that I'm talking 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:43.040 about what creativity exists. You know, it's right here, just 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:44.720 before you go to sleep. There's a kind of a 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:47.520 place you kind of float around a little bit. If 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:51.640 you can get there. You can get there by meditation. Uh. 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:55.280 It's really interesting because I remember as a little boy, 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:59.160 you know, I always have a thing now because you know, 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.240 sometimes we have to of these shows in the round. 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:04.480 I never liked anybody behind me while I'm in my 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:08.960 trance because my dad rest his soul, you know, he 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.400 was a very conservative guy who was a dentist, you know, 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:13.840 and he would not realize that I wasn't another planet 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:15.959 when I was playing the piano, and he would go, 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:20.000 are you ready to eat? Oh my goodness, you know hello? 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:24.839 You know? Uh no, so uh, you know, as I say, 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.520 I don't really think you need drugs to do anything. Okay, 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:30.440 you have a new book, Memoir of a Rascal. What's 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.800 the backstory? Why a book? Now? Okay? Two thousand thirteen 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.320 Steve van Z and matterface of the last time I 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:38.760 saw he was in those uh wanted us to do 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:42.840 a kind of like a Broadway show. So he took 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:47.240 a title of one of our albums, once upon a Dream, 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:50.880 and we we embarked on this whatever you want to 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:55.400 call it, magical mystery tour. And uh. During this process, 0:12:55.440 --> 0:13:00.800 there was a number of press conferences. Okay, so the 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:03.600 four of us were sitting at you know, and just 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.600 you know, they depressed, would ask questions, and I noticed 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:11.280 everyone had a different answer for the same question. And 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:15.520 I started to say, wait a second, do you think 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:18.280 really that the Pearl Harbor happened? Or was it somebody 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:20.000 that just was there that said it? You know, I 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:23.240 mean you say, wait a second, I was there. That's 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:26.240 not what I remember. Maybe I should write a book 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:31.080 and just kind of like say my story that that's 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.959 how it started. Okay, But the other thing in the book, 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.920 you give a lot of credit to your new manager Obie. Yeah, 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:41.920 so tell us about him in your relationship. Okay, So 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.640 here here's the situation. Was my we call him Abby 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:49.280 Abby Abbi Steinman. He's in his fifties. So here's the 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:52.800 here's here's the rub. And if he was only born 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:57.280 when we were rascals, if he was only born, you know, 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:01.079 I don't have to tell you normal and everything I read. 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:05.280 I read your stuff all the time. It's the music business. 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:09.599 It's not the music music. Most of us are musicians, 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:13.120 were not businessmen. If you have that link to the 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:16.520 business world, you've got a really good chance of having 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:21.080 a career that's successful. If you don't have that, it's 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:25.240 very very difficult to especially in today's modern world where marketing, 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:28.400 you know, you take a person like goth Brooks. I mean, 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.360 he was a marketing major. Look what he did. I mean, 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:35.040 what can you say? I mean, you can't you mean, 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:39.680 that's brilliant. We never really had that type of acumen 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:43.960 in in the business department, in our in our management. 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:46.600 With all due respect to Sid Bernstein and and and 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:51.080 his ilk uh, they weren't you know, like, um, they 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:54.240 weren't aware of what we needed to do the the 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:58.000 the UH in those days. They were these columnists like 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:00.840 Walter Winchell and just some of these the people that had, 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:03.200 you know, in the New York Post and stuff like that. 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:05.760 Ed Sullivan was one of those people. That's how you 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:08.720 got your advertisement. You know. This is pre MTV, this 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.400 is prehistoric, you know. So Abbie came in with all 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:16.400 the new UH ideas, you know, just as as as 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:19.480 an idea, you know, like for example, we do a concert, 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:21.760 you know, we do a live show, I go out 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:26.880 with Felix, Cavaleries, Rascals, Um, I advertise my own shows. 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:31.640 Now we never even dreamt of that, Neil Is, because 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:34.440 the promoter would do that. Well, that doesn't happen anymore. 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:37.600 So we kind of, you know, we we we we 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:40.880 buy ads, or we do podcasts, or we do radio 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:44.640 interviews to bring people to fill the seats because if 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:47.840 you fill the seats, you go back and if you 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:51.520 don't next you know, it's so different today. I mean, 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:55.360 it's just amazing, you know. Okay, So the book is 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:59.640 very good because it's not about nuts and bolts. It's 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:04.680 more about the experience. But in the experience. Not everybody 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:08.720 looks good. Were you anxious about writing some of that stuff? 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:11.760 Did you contact people and say, hey, I'm gonna write this. 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:15.120 What do you think? Well, I think the word is yes, 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:18.680 we were. I was very anxious. I've had an unfortunately, 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:22.680 you know, a lot, a lot of disappointment with my 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:25.560 old band members. That's the nicest word that I can 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:28.040 think of, uh, in terms of the way they have 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:33.000 behaved after you know, the group broke up. Um, you know, 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:35.920 I mean it's just sad, you know, really when you 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:39.760 go backwards. So I was obviously very very careful not 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:43.120 to say anything that would ruffle feathers of people who 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:46.840 you know, I really loved. I mean, I just disappointed 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:49.480 in their actions. But we were brothers, you know, so 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:54.560 to speak. And you know, I'm wondering if if it's 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:58.680 Mr Putin's ego that's destroying this this planet, you know, 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:02.400 because it's certainly leaves though, well that's what destroyed us 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:03.960 the same thing, you know. So I have to be 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:07.000 very careful of that because you know, the lawyers are 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:10.680 making a lot of money these days. Okay, So did 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:14.159 you have a pre existing relationship with Steven Van ZANDT 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:16.000 or did he just track you down and say I 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.679 have an idea? Yes and no. I mean basically I 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.439 was in touch with Steve. You know, my my drummer, 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:26.040 Dino Dannelli, was part of his uh his Disciples of Soul. 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:29.000 I think I did a couple of sessions for his albums, 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:31.280 so I kind of knew of him and about him, 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:34.439 you know, and uh, you know, the the real uh 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:40.439 kind of link came when we were brought into the 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:42.200 Hall of Fame, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:45.760 and you know, basically for those that don't know that story, 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:48.439 you know, the Hall of Fame how it works is 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:53.399 there's a nominating committee, uh that if you're not on 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:56.520 the in the nominations, obviously there's no way you can 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.560 get in. I mean we all, we meaning the inductees, 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:02.600 we vote for the you know, the next year's uh 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:08.200 uh induction inductions, but we don't nominate. So the people 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:11.560 who nominate are really really important. Steve was one of 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:15.040 those people that put our name in front of the 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:18.080 panel all the time. There were a few others too, 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.640 and I'm proud to mention them. I mean, Phil phil 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:24.000 Spector was a big help to us. Frankie Valley, big 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:27.159 help to us, Dion Demucci, big help to us. A 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:30.480 lot of people really put our names on the committee. 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:35.000 So when Steve did basically, um, this is the interesting 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:37.760 part is that he wanted to do the introduction, the 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:41.000 induction ceremony. And I don't know if you saw that, 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:45.280 but it was classic. It was classic and and and 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.320 as you know, uh, that's how he got the part 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:53.040 in the sopranos. He was contacted because it was really brilliant. 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:54.960 And he told me later he said, I had another 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:58.480 hair flower, but I was embarrassed to do it. It 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.240 was really good. So did it end up being the 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.280 stage show Once upon a Dream? God, I'm losing track 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:07.080 of time. But many years later, turnround to thirteen, around 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:11.240 to twelve. I mean, it's really very interesting here. You 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:13.560 know how God works, you know, because it's so it's 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:16.800 just I got a call from one of my daughters, 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:20.359 you know, the rest her soul. She says, Dad, don't 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:23.840 get excited. I got a little lump in my breast. 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:28.760 I said, oh my goodness, what can you say? Not 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:32.880 even not even the next hour, maybe the next three hours. 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:35.920 I get a call from Steve van zand out of 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:40.840 the Blue, Bruce and I do this Kristen Carr Cancer 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:45.840 Research concert every year. Would you be interested in reuniting 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:51.680 the rascals to do that? What could I say? I mean, 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:55.359 I hadn't seen these guys since with the Hall of Fame, 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:57.879 which is this is like, you know, not not not 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:01.320 quite ten but whatever, it was more than that years. 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:06.120 I said, yes, you know, and and so we went 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:12.720 to um, uh what's his name's club down there? Uh, 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:16.160 I can't remember, down down down in uh uh Alec 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:18.879 Bowen's place, I guess you know, No, not Alec, I'm sorry, 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:21.679 Scorry was it was Robert de Niro's place, excuse me? 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:24.879 And uh we did a concert down there. We did 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:27.320 a show down there. It was five thousand dollars a 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:29.719 ticket was all for cancer. And obviously I met a 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:31.640 lot of doctors and a lot of people who could 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:34.879 help my kid, kept my daughter, you know. So that 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:38.439 was the beginning. And then, as fate would have it, 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:42.560 you know, everybody said, hey, you guys want to do 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:44.840 this again, you want to do something, And now I 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:48.000 knew I was in trouble. You know, now I knew 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:51.560 It's kind of like, you know, if you get a divorce, 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:53.520 you know, and somebody says, hey, would you would you 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:55.359 like to go back with your ex? And I said, 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:58.960 not really, Well why don't you try? You guys were 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:01.800 so good together? Said yeah, okay, but you see the scar. 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:05.960 Oh anyway, So that's how it happened. And and then 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:08.920 the rest was kind of like a snowball going down 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:11.680 the hill, you know, because yeah, you guys were good. 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:15.120 You know, we were good. That was good. Why don't 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:18.040 we and we started they started talking, bringing up ideas, 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:22.639 And that's that's when life really comes becomes complicated, because 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:25.720 you know, I mean, I understand why people. I mean, 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:28.880 I remember my my manager the old day, said Bernstein 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:31.080 used to get in trouble, Old Tom trying to reunite 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:33.320 the Beatles. I want to put the Beatles together. We 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:36.080 don't want to be together. We don't want to be together. 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:38.840 But there's a there's a desire for people to see 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:42.680 the people that they loved up on stage again, you know. 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:44.760 And and so that's how it happened. It kind of 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:55.920 like snowballed. Well, how did it become a Broadway show? 0:21:55.960 --> 0:21:59.160 A whole production is opposed to just a concert? I think, 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:03.359 you know, Steve had an idea besides just doing a 0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:07.480 uh a show like a so called you know, concert, 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:14.360 to include a kind of another dimension in terms of lights. Uh. 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:18.000 And because he had this this gentleman who Mark Brittman, 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:21.960 who who did this phenomenal lighter. He did the Empire State. 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:24.960 He's doing the Empire State building as we speak. So 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:28.600 he had done uh lights for Bruce and I think 0:22:28.640 --> 0:22:32.120 he did YouTube or somebody he did, uh maybe Pink Floyd. 0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:34.400 He was good, really good. So that was the ideas 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:38.600 to make the whole theater into like a light universe, 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:43.240 you know. And then he wanted to do a video, 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:47.000 and the video was was was to be a story. 0:22:47.760 --> 0:22:50.280 So I think in his mind in the beginning he 0:22:50.359 --> 0:22:54.240 had always this this concept to do a Broadway show 0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:57.960 or a show you know, I mean Jersey Boys. Certainly, 0:22:58.320 --> 0:23:01.639 you know, it was quite effective it or so I 0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:03.679 think that was it was in his mind. And and 0:23:03.760 --> 0:23:09.080 basically what happened is we sat down and uh. He 0:23:09.119 --> 0:23:13.640 had originally written a story and I said, you know, Alison, 0:23:13.680 --> 0:23:15.439 when the land has already been done, there's none of 0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:18.720 this story that's real, so you know, let me tell 0:23:18.760 --> 0:23:22.080 you what happened. And he did that with each of us. 0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:24.480 And I think what happened is he put together like 0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:28.040 a script, you know, and and that's how that happened. 0:23:28.240 --> 0:23:31.040 What was your viewpoint on that? In in addition, it 0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:33.320 started off at New York, then went on the road, 0:23:33.800 --> 0:23:36.679 and he was funding it and it wasn't profitable. You know, 0:23:37.440 --> 0:23:41.720 I really can only go by the critics, you know, 0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:45.000 what they said of it. You know, my view of 0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:49.200 it is um is entirely different. You know, sometimes when 0:23:49.200 --> 0:23:52.760 you go on stage, you know, we we have sometimes 0:23:52.800 --> 0:23:56.200 you know, we have to two places where sound is 0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:59.160 is exuded from. You know, one is the the audience. 0:23:59.200 --> 0:24:02.480 They they hear what we're projecting. But we also here 0:24:02.520 --> 0:24:06.120 in our own monitors, like these headphones, what we sound 0:24:06.200 --> 0:24:09.400 like on stage. And you know, you come to realize 0:24:09.400 --> 0:24:12.000 that unless you're in the Bruce, you know, bruiser, you 0:24:12.160 --> 0:24:15.679 two category Billy Joel category, you may not hear on 0:24:15.840 --> 0:24:20.840 stage what you'd like to hear. However, you're not playing 0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:23.840 for yourself. You're playing for the audience. So my views 0:24:24.320 --> 0:24:26.880 of what's good and what's not good they're a little 0:24:27.000 --> 0:24:30.240 you know, they're a little little biased because I I 0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:34.399 did not like the structures. See I I like to 0:24:34.440 --> 0:24:37.920 be a free free agent. You I mean, I don't 0:24:37.920 --> 0:24:40.119 like being tied down to where you got thirty seconds 0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:42.600 and then the commercial starts, or you know, fifteen seconds 0:24:42.600 --> 0:24:44.480 and then you know, the drums come in. I don't 0:24:44.480 --> 0:24:49.360 like that. I like more of a jazz you know. Um. 0:24:49.400 --> 0:24:52.720 You know, for example, when I first was learning music, uh, 0:24:53.080 --> 0:24:55.000 my mom arrested. So she wanted me to be a 0:24:55.000 --> 0:24:58.239 classical pianist. So I would sit down with it with 0:24:58.320 --> 0:25:00.080 the piano, and I'd sit down with the mu is 0:25:00.119 --> 0:25:02.520 it and I play, and the teacher had a ruler. 0:25:02.520 --> 0:25:04.080 In those days, you know, this is when you could 0:25:04.119 --> 0:25:08.560 beat up your clients, you know, your students, and man, 0:25:08.760 --> 0:25:10.320 what are you doing? She says, well, that's not how 0:25:10.359 --> 0:25:15.000 it's written. Oh, in other words, like I can't do that. 0:25:15.119 --> 0:25:16.840 In other words, you can't put the left hand down 0:25:16.880 --> 0:25:18.720 before the right hand because it makes it that Oh 0:25:18.760 --> 0:25:20.640 you can't do that. It makes an eco. It sounds cood. 0:25:20.680 --> 0:25:22.520 He can't do it. That's not how he wanted it. 0:25:23.240 --> 0:25:26.800 That's the way I felt. I felt very restricted because 0:25:26.840 --> 0:25:29.679 it was you know, it was all timed. You know. 0:25:29.920 --> 0:25:31.879 I when when when I get an idea, you know, 0:25:32.040 --> 0:25:34.840 I'd like to you know do it? You know, and 0:25:34.880 --> 0:25:37.800 I think the audience, you know, everybody says to us 0:25:37.800 --> 0:25:39.639 all the time, Hey, how can you do those songs 0:25:39.680 --> 0:25:41.400 over and over and over and over and over and over? 0:25:41.480 --> 0:25:43.639 Where I can do them over and over because I'm 0:25:43.760 --> 0:25:46.200 creating as I'm doing them, We're making new things happen. 0:25:46.240 --> 0:25:50.640 Maybe they're very nuanced and very small, but they're there. Well, 0:25:50.680 --> 0:25:53.600 I knew I felt very restricted. So how did it end? 0:25:53.840 --> 0:25:56.240 And in the book you talk about trying to put 0:25:56.280 --> 0:25:59.919 it together without all the production, and that doesn't come together. 0:26:00.080 --> 0:26:05.359 So tie those stories. Yeah, exactly. Well it ended when 0:26:05.359 --> 0:26:07.640 we got a like a kind of like an email. 0:26:07.680 --> 0:26:10.639 I used to be a telegram, remember, but it said 0:26:10.920 --> 0:26:14.280 guess what the show is over? And it says it 0:26:14.320 --> 0:26:16.080 was on my birthday as a matter of fact, you know, 0:26:16.080 --> 0:26:17.879 it was a November twenty nine, and all of a 0:26:17.920 --> 0:26:21.359 sudden it's done. Uh. You know, there's a lot of 0:26:21.440 --> 0:26:27.960 reasons why things don't make money. Um, none of them. 0:26:28.320 --> 0:26:32.120 Were the rascals falled? That's the nicest way I can 0:26:32.160 --> 0:26:35.280 say that. Okay, And why couldn't you reunite the being well, 0:26:35.280 --> 0:26:38.000 the bands were united. Why couldn't you convince everybody to 0:26:38.080 --> 0:26:40.800 go out just as the rascal. Well, you know that 0:26:40.960 --> 0:26:45.880 that's really the interesting thing, you know, because uh, you know, uh, 0:26:45.920 --> 0:26:47.800 there's a chapter in the book where one of one 0:26:47.840 --> 0:26:52.320 of my dear friends who I grew up with, said, 0:26:52.480 --> 0:26:54.879 with the stupidest rock and roll band in the world. 0:26:55.640 --> 0:26:57.639 You know, most people who don't have a lot of 0:26:57.680 --> 0:27:00.680 money and somebody offers them a lot of money, they 0:27:00.720 --> 0:27:03.560 go and try to get a lot of money, you know, 0:27:04.040 --> 0:27:07.320 like you know the stories about you know, the Eagles, 0:27:07.400 --> 0:27:09.320 you know, and you know how they you know, however, 0:27:09.440 --> 0:27:12.400 and keeps them together, you know, and and they're making zillions. 0:27:12.480 --> 0:27:15.200 You know, my guys don't think like that. As a 0:27:15.200 --> 0:27:19.080 matter of fact, my guys don't think so. I couldn't 0:27:19.080 --> 0:27:25.639 do it. I could not reunite or reconvene because you know, 0:27:25.760 --> 0:27:28.360 the Stones do they get along? Who cares? They play 0:27:28.440 --> 0:27:30.760 great together and they go home. You know what I'm saying. 0:27:30.760 --> 0:27:32.840 I could not do that. I could not get these 0:27:32.840 --> 0:27:36.960 guys to say, hey, look, you know, the clocks ticking. 0:27:37.080 --> 0:27:39.000 You know what I'm saying, we are not going to 0:27:39.080 --> 0:27:42.159 be able to do this much longer. And now, unfortunately 0:27:42.240 --> 0:27:44.600 that that is definitely the case. There's a lot of illness. 0:27:45.680 --> 0:27:47.359 Why don't we do it and just do it and 0:27:47.400 --> 0:27:50.600 you know, satisfying. Not only are fans which you know, 0:27:50.760 --> 0:27:54.080 they're begging us to do this, but you know, let's 0:27:54.119 --> 0:27:56.320 just put a closure on, you know, let's let's let's 0:27:56.320 --> 0:27:58.200 get Oh and by the way, let's make a little money. 0:27:58.280 --> 0:28:01.119 Is there's nothing, there's no friend of mine wrote a 0:28:01.160 --> 0:28:03.360 song called It's not the money, It's the money. Oh yeah, 0:28:03.440 --> 0:28:06.840 famous music pieces expression. So you know, I mean, it 0:28:07.200 --> 0:28:10.040 is something wrong with that. I couldn't do it. So 0:28:10.119 --> 0:28:11.720 you know, I tried, and a lot of other people 0:28:11.720 --> 0:28:14.760 have tried, a lot of people, famous people, you know, 0:28:14.840 --> 0:28:19.760 Shelley Finkel, Jim Coplick, you know, uh, you know, important promoters, 0:28:19.840 --> 0:28:25.080 powerful people, Abby Obvi Steinman. Uh. You know, you just 0:28:25.119 --> 0:28:28.280 can't explain it. Okay, you're talking as if you're the 0:28:28.400 --> 0:28:31.840 driving force and leader of the band. When the band 0:28:31.960 --> 0:28:35.760 broke to the general public, Eddie was the front man, 0:28:36.400 --> 0:28:39.440 but he didn't sing all the songs. In addition, then 0:28:39.440 --> 0:28:43.760 you started composing songs, and as time evolved, you had 0:28:43.760 --> 0:28:46.680 an equal, if not more dominant face. But my question 0:28:46.720 --> 0:28:50.240 is more simplistic. Were you always the leader of the 0:28:50.280 --> 0:28:54.120 band and driving force or did that evolve over time? Yes, 0:28:55.240 --> 0:28:58.440 simple as that I started the band. I was the 0:28:58.480 --> 0:29:01.840 only one that had trying putation to take the equipment. 0:29:02.440 --> 0:29:04.200 I was the only one who kept the books. I 0:29:04.280 --> 0:29:07.720 was the only one that paid the bills. Yes, I 0:29:07.760 --> 0:29:11.440 had the idea. I wanted it to happen. But you know, 0:29:11.560 --> 0:29:16.360 it's so interesting because how is a communist? And I 0:29:16.400 --> 0:29:21.760 didn't realize that communism only works in heaven. It doesn't 0:29:21.840 --> 0:29:24.640 work on earth, you know. I I just you know, 0:29:24.680 --> 0:29:27.320 I said, man, I just want to get a bunch 0:29:27.320 --> 0:29:30.200 of guys that really sing and play well together. Man, 0:29:30.200 --> 0:29:32.719 and they you know, they're really talented. Man, Let's go 0:29:32.760 --> 0:29:35.600 out and conquer the world. That's why I always wanted brothers. 0:29:35.600 --> 0:29:37.600 I never had a brother. You know, if I had 0:29:37.600 --> 0:29:41.000 a b G family, forget about it. We take over 0:29:41.000 --> 0:29:43.800 the planet. So, you know, I I just put them 0:29:43.800 --> 0:29:45.920 together like that. And and and I and I and 0:29:45.960 --> 0:29:48.239 I had a vision. I had a sound vision, you know, 0:29:48.360 --> 0:29:50.920 and and uh, you know, it really was a wake 0:29:51.000 --> 0:29:54.040 up call to me to see, you know, other people 0:29:54.120 --> 0:29:57.840 and how they you know, I mean, for example, you know, 0:29:58.160 --> 0:30:00.200 when you would do interviews in the old is and 0:30:00.200 --> 0:30:02.560 they would ask each of us you know, the teen magazine. 0:30:02.560 --> 0:30:04.280 What what did you want to be when you, you you know, 0:30:04.400 --> 0:30:06.680 grew up. Did you have any plans? And I was 0:30:06.760 --> 0:30:10.239 shocked to hear the plans that these guys, because in 0:30:10.280 --> 0:30:14.960 many cases they had no plans, you know, say, oh, okay, 0:30:15.040 --> 0:30:19.480 so ambition, desire, you know, well, you know I had. 0:30:19.560 --> 0:30:21.960 I had the desire and the ambition, and and thank lord, 0:30:22.000 --> 0:30:24.880 I had the talent. So I I wanted it to happen. 0:30:25.320 --> 0:30:29.239 But I never really cared, you know about whether you know, 0:30:29.720 --> 0:30:31.800 I'm in the front of the band. I'm taking care 0:30:31.840 --> 0:30:34.320 of the music back here. Man, I'm I'm fine, I'm 0:30:34.360 --> 0:30:38.960 doing great, you know. But Eddie kind of fizzled out, 0:30:39.080 --> 0:30:41.080 you know, he didn't. He didn't. He didn't look at 0:30:41.120 --> 0:30:44.520 it like that. He he um. And he just kind 0:30:44.520 --> 0:30:46.840 of felt like, wow, I want to go home. I said, well, 0:30:46.840 --> 0:30:48.440 what do you mean? What what do you mean you 0:30:48.480 --> 0:30:49.800 want to go home? I don't really want to go 0:30:49.840 --> 0:30:53.120 on the road too much. What you have more fun 0:30:53.160 --> 0:30:55.000 than all of us put together. You know. He was 0:30:55.040 --> 0:30:57.200 the wildest man in the world, you know at that time. 0:30:57.240 --> 0:30:59.240 I mean, the road managers would come up to me 0:30:59.240 --> 0:31:01.760 at the other and I say, please send someone out 0:31:01.800 --> 0:31:03.800 after the show with him. I've got to get some rest, 0:31:03.920 --> 0:31:06.000 you know. And here he wanted to go home. He 0:31:06.120 --> 0:31:08.920 just wanted to be around his his folks all the time. 0:31:09.720 --> 0:31:14.320 Very interesting story, I mean, if I may, just you know, 0:31:14.840 --> 0:31:18.120 when the Buddy Holly tragedy happened, you know, and and 0:31:18.160 --> 0:31:22.120 all those people, Uh, that was the same plane that 0:31:22.280 --> 0:31:25.120 um Joey d and the Starlight is not I don't know. 0:31:25.200 --> 0:31:28.760 It was a week or two before we're on, you 0:31:28.800 --> 0:31:33.680 know what I mean. So his brother David Eddi's brother David, 0:31:33.680 --> 0:31:35.680 that was it. Fear of flying, you know, we don't 0:31:35.680 --> 0:31:38.400 want to get on airplanes. Oh well, that's fun. How 0:31:38.400 --> 0:31:40.800 are we going to do Hawaii? If you know what, 0:31:41.240 --> 0:31:43.680 the ocean ane'll take us two months to get No, 0:31:44.120 --> 0:31:48.120 I think so all of these things came into you know, 0:31:48.360 --> 0:31:51.360 the music part of our lives and the creative part 0:31:51.360 --> 0:31:54.200 of our lives was only you know that It wasn't 0:31:54.240 --> 0:31:57.880 like their individual personalities. But I didn't know anything about 0:31:57.880 --> 0:32:00.160 these guys. We weren't didn't grow up together as thing 0:32:00.280 --> 0:32:02.760 like that, you know. So when you see you know, 0:32:02.880 --> 0:32:06.880 people's uh, you know, life stories totally different from mine, 0:32:07.120 --> 0:32:09.800 you know, totally different. And I think that's that's the 0:32:10.560 --> 0:32:12.960 that's the problem. What did it have happened with three 0:32:13.000 --> 0:32:15.640 completely different guys? You know, I don't think so. I 0:32:15.720 --> 0:32:18.880 think there's a special thing about groups. I always felt 0:32:18.920 --> 0:32:20.800 that way, And you know, when we did the Broadway 0:32:20.840 --> 0:32:24.440 Show it was perfect example for some reason. You know, 0:32:24.480 --> 0:32:26.880 I use the word God who used whatever word you want, 0:32:27.160 --> 0:32:31.120 puts together certain individuals that have a special sympathico together, 0:32:31.200 --> 0:32:34.560 a special magic together. Because during that that that time, 0:32:34.600 --> 0:32:36.760 when we did that Broadway show, it started off pretty 0:32:36.840 --> 0:32:40.440 rough because a lot of the uh like Dino for example, 0:32:40.880 --> 0:32:43.280 really hadn't been playing. You know, his chops were all 0:32:43.400 --> 0:32:45.640 they were not they're out there. Eddie hadn't been singing, 0:32:45.680 --> 0:32:49.440 so there was no But after a while the magic 0:32:50.560 --> 0:32:53.840 came in. So and answer you to your question, I 0:32:53.880 --> 0:32:56.400 don't think it would happen with other people. You've never know. 0:32:56.800 --> 0:33:00.000 Once the band broke up the early seventies, in two 0:33:00.120 --> 0:33:02.920 you reunite and do this thing with Steve van Zan. 0:33:04.600 --> 0:33:06.960 How much contact did you have with the other members 0:33:09.360 --> 0:33:16.520 across from the litigation table. Yeah, it was not a 0:33:16.560 --> 0:33:19.920 pleasant experience. Yeah, No, we really didn't have much contact. 0:33:19.960 --> 0:33:25.600 I tried to uh reinvent the the writing team, myself 0:33:25.640 --> 0:33:28.920 and Eddie many times over the years because I said 0:33:28.920 --> 0:33:30.240 that we don't have to work, we don't have to 0:33:30.240 --> 0:33:32.080 go on the road, we don't have to even sing, 0:33:32.200 --> 0:33:34.440 but we can certainly, right, why don't we do that? 0:33:34.800 --> 0:33:37.400 You know? And I really was unable to do that 0:33:37.480 --> 0:33:40.720 as well, you know, so we just separated. We did 0:33:40.720 --> 0:33:44.160 a tour in night without Eddie. We did uh, we 0:33:44.200 --> 0:33:49.080 did that wonderful Atlantic reunion, uh was it forty year anniversary, 0:33:49.600 --> 0:33:52.320 which was just oh man, that was so much fun. 0:33:52.360 --> 0:33:53.959 Oh my god. I mean, here you are with all 0:33:54.000 --> 0:33:57.719 these these groups you know, that are in one place 0:33:57.760 --> 0:34:00.240 at one time. That that was a lot of and 0:34:00.240 --> 0:34:02.360 and he didn't do that either, So he didn't do it, 0:34:02.480 --> 0:34:05.520 you know, And so we didn't really have much contact 0:34:05.520 --> 0:34:08.360 when we got to the Hall of Fame evening. It 0:34:08.480 --> 0:34:12.160 was unfortunate that that wasn't a real pleasant experience either, 0:34:12.239 --> 0:34:14.839 you know. I mean it should have been, you know, 0:34:15.360 --> 0:34:17.920 but um, that's just so much, you know, it's just 0:34:18.000 --> 0:34:21.600 really difficult to discuss. You talk about the litigation. What 0:34:21.640 --> 0:34:26.520 was all the litigation about? Wow? Well, you know, um, well, 0:34:26.640 --> 0:34:29.600 right now, I mean the name, the name, the name, 0:34:29.680 --> 0:34:31.640 the situation, you know. I was on the impression when 0:34:31.680 --> 0:34:33.560 you leave a band and you you don't want to 0:34:33.640 --> 0:34:35.440 use the name, that somebody else should be able to 0:34:35.480 --> 0:34:37.600 use the name. But I guess people don't think like that, 0:34:38.360 --> 0:34:40.880 you know, uh, A lot of things that there's a 0:34:40.880 --> 0:34:44.560 lot of just misunderstandings, you know that, you know, without 0:34:44.560 --> 0:34:47.040 going into detail, because I purposely left that out of 0:34:47.040 --> 0:34:50.160 the book because who cares, you know, I mean, well, 0:34:50.200 --> 0:34:52.560 what's the problem. You know, I noticed some people like 0:34:52.640 --> 0:34:56.400 for example, you know, uh, like for example Mr Putin, 0:34:56.520 --> 0:35:00.520 I think he has an idea that these countries that 0:35:00.640 --> 0:35:05.120 have become free and independent really belong to the Soviet 0:35:05.200 --> 0:35:09.399 Union that was dissolved. He's wrong. But try to tell 0:35:09.480 --> 0:35:12.480 somebody that, and then that somebody goes to an attorney 0:35:12.480 --> 0:35:15.000 and talk to the attorney into saying, well, how about 0:35:15.000 --> 0:35:20.000 if we see if this is viable? You know, and 0:35:20.080 --> 0:35:22.239 in England, you know, if you if you, if you 0:35:23.000 --> 0:35:26.560 sue and and it doesn't doesn't happen, you pay, you know, 0:35:26.600 --> 0:35:29.800 you pay the the the what you're looking for, plus 0:35:29.800 --> 0:35:32.759 the legal fees. But in America, bring it on, man, 0:35:32.800 --> 0:35:35.120 don't worry about it. We got your coverage. Just pay 0:35:35.200 --> 0:35:37.680 to pay the lawyers and you know it's just it's sad. 0:35:38.400 --> 0:35:43.360 You know, they call them frivolous suits. So there you go. Okay. 0:35:43.800 --> 0:35:47.560 One statement that really sticks out in your book is 0:35:47.600 --> 0:35:51.480 that you sold the publishing. Yeah, was it like Creden's 0:35:51.480 --> 0:35:55.239 Clearwater Revival where you sold a hundred percent we're just 0:35:55.320 --> 0:35:58.279 the ownership share and retained the raider's share. What was 0:35:58.320 --> 0:36:00.520 going on there, Well, we retained the right to share, 0:36:00.560 --> 0:36:03.239 but you know, the the tragedy was you know, and 0:36:03.280 --> 0:36:08.600 again in nineteen seventy approached me too. Uh Eddie Brigotti 0:36:08.719 --> 0:36:13.000 decided to abandon ship. Actually the nineteen seventy we were 0:36:13.080 --> 0:36:17.400 free agents. We had five years with the Atlantic and uh, 0:36:17.520 --> 0:36:19.440 I say this in the book as well that uh 0:36:20.280 --> 0:36:23.799 Atlantic didn't want to resign the rascals. They wanted to 0:36:23.800 --> 0:36:28.040 resign me, but they didn't want the rascals were a 0:36:28.080 --> 0:36:32.359 little bit too uh out of control in terms of 0:36:32.600 --> 0:36:35.719 uh you know, like direction and you know, like continuity, 0:36:36.040 --> 0:36:39.040 and you know, the output was was not there because 0:36:39.120 --> 0:36:43.319 you know, people weren't weren't doing their jobs. So we 0:36:43.360 --> 0:36:46.680 went to Columbia and it was a major step because 0:36:46.719 --> 0:36:49.319 you know, Clive Davis was over there and uh, you 0:36:49.360 --> 0:36:52.480 know Colombia and I digress, but I mean, you know, 0:36:52.760 --> 0:36:57.200 Columbia was always an international label, whereas Atlantic in the 0:36:57.239 --> 0:37:00.640 early days was not. You know, in Atlantic, we had 0:37:00.680 --> 0:37:03.239 a different record company in every in every country of 0:37:03.280 --> 0:37:06.239 the world, and it was you know, you got you 0:37:06.360 --> 0:37:09.160 got twenty people stealing from you said one, you know. 0:37:09.560 --> 0:37:12.600 But I mean the interesting thing is that when Zeppelin 0:37:12.680 --> 0:37:17.000 came along, you know, uh, at that time, Atlantic merged 0:37:17.080 --> 0:37:20.719 with Warner Brothers. So now there was one label. So 0:37:20.760 --> 0:37:23.920 when you put out a Warner Brothers or an Atlantic product, 0:37:24.000 --> 0:37:29.160 it became internationally. Thus single or the album we didn't 0:37:29.160 --> 0:37:32.200 have that, you know, we had, and so basically we 0:37:32.200 --> 0:37:35.120 were just a little bit before the international you know. 0:37:35.200 --> 0:37:38.360 I mean the platinum records were just starting. You know, 0:37:38.480 --> 0:37:42.360 Cream I think had the first platinum album, and you know, uh, 0:37:42.600 --> 0:37:45.680 so you know, it was a major, major difference, you know. 0:37:45.840 --> 0:37:49.400 So um, you know, as I say, you know, you 0:37:49.560 --> 0:37:52.120 just try to continue. But what happened at that time 0:37:52.760 --> 0:37:56.920 when Eddie decided to leave, is that the you know, 0:37:56.920 --> 0:37:59.080 it's kind of like it's the same as a divorce, 0:37:59.160 --> 0:38:01.719 it's the same as a corporation just dissolving. You know, 0:38:02.000 --> 0:38:05.200 Now that the legal issues come up where you've got 0:38:05.280 --> 0:38:08.400 to divide, you know, divide everything, and this is yours, 0:38:08.400 --> 0:38:11.239 this is your microphone, you know, all that kind of 0:38:11.239 --> 0:38:16.600 stuff to stock well for some reason. And again, you know, 0:38:16.680 --> 0:38:18.600 this is where it gets a little, a little little gray, 0:38:18.640 --> 0:38:20.560 because you know, I was still you know, as in 0:38:20.600 --> 0:38:23.880 my late twenties, you know, and I hadn't really developed 0:38:25.080 --> 0:38:27.680 much negativity to the world. You know, I was kind 0:38:27.680 --> 0:38:29.719 of like, you know, still in la la land as 0:38:29.719 --> 0:38:32.480 far as like, man, this is the coolest thing. I 0:38:32.600 --> 0:38:34.719 enjoyed myself so much. I mean, I don't care how 0:38:34.760 --> 0:38:37.680 many arguments we had. That was having a band and 0:38:37.760 --> 0:38:41.279 being successful and being on the road. It was really fun. 0:38:41.280 --> 0:38:42.920 But it was really a dream come true. And you 0:38:42.960 --> 0:38:44.920 like my music? Oh you want to hear? Are you 0:38:45.000 --> 0:38:47.680 kidding me? What more could I possibly ask? Oh? Oh 0:38:48.480 --> 0:38:50.960 the sun isn't shining every day? Oh, but that didn't 0:38:51.040 --> 0:38:57.160 hit me. So when people within our group of advisors 0:38:58.000 --> 0:39:00.319 came up with an idea to sell a power ishing, 0:39:01.920 --> 0:39:06.600 it was also met with Brigotti wanted to cash in, 0:39:06.800 --> 0:39:09.319 you know, all his chips and just wash his hands 0:39:09.360 --> 0:39:13.719 and the whole thing. Terrible decision. As a matter of fact, 0:39:13.719 --> 0:39:15.360 there was a gentleman. But I don't even West Farrell, 0:39:15.440 --> 0:39:17.840 who is no longer with us. West Farrell had a 0:39:18.320 --> 0:39:22.120 an artist that wanted to record our song, one of 0:39:22.120 --> 0:39:25.400 our songs. How can I be sure? David Cassidy, you know, 0:39:26.640 --> 0:39:29.760 who was a major Rascal fan by the way, and anyway, 0:39:29.800 --> 0:39:32.640 that that predicated the sale. And it was a total mistake, 0:39:32.680 --> 0:39:34.720 you know, and and and and it was so sad 0:39:34.760 --> 0:39:37.640 because the only the only people who did not want 0:39:37.640 --> 0:39:40.520 it to happen. We're not invited to the meeting, to 0:39:40.640 --> 0:39:46.719 the transaction. And you know, as a young man, you know, 0:39:47.760 --> 0:39:51.000 especially being you know Italian Salli. Man, you because the 0:39:51.040 --> 0:39:55.960 hell with these guys, Dad with it, take it go. 0:39:56.440 --> 0:39:58.680 You don't realize what are you saying? Man? You know 0:39:58.719 --> 0:40:00.799 what I mean? This is a bad move, especially when 0:40:00.800 --> 0:40:03.680 you see the people now who are you know, really 0:40:03.760 --> 0:40:05.960 cashing in their chips on the publishing because we always 0:40:06.000 --> 0:40:08.920 were told that the publishing was the manna of our industry, 0:40:08.960 --> 0:40:11.560 the songs. That's that's really where it's at, you know, 0:40:11.920 --> 0:40:14.480 I mean asked Mr McCartney. You know, I mean he 0:40:14.520 --> 0:40:16.720 when he gets a record deal, he doesn't take money, 0:40:16.760 --> 0:40:19.960 he doesn't want need money. He takes publishing. You know, 0:40:20.040 --> 0:40:22.040 he owns all of the songs that you hear when 0:40:22.040 --> 0:40:24.360 you go to a football game. He owns the whole halftime. 0:40:24.760 --> 0:40:29.000 You know, he owns frank music. You know, very very 0:40:29.200 --> 0:40:31.799 very very smart, because that used to be and I 0:40:31.840 --> 0:40:34.200 hope it still is. Where the where the real money was. 0:40:34.320 --> 0:40:38.160 You know, So that was a bad mistake on our part. Okay, 0:40:38.200 --> 0:40:42.400 but you reteen, your writer's share. Has that writer's share 0:40:42.600 --> 0:40:46.879 been enough to keep you in good financial state over 0:40:46.920 --> 0:40:49.480 the decades? Well to a degree, yes, But I mean 0:40:49.600 --> 0:40:53.040 I had to put you know, four young people through 0:40:53.080 --> 0:40:56.600 college and one through grad school, so you know, I 0:40:56.640 --> 0:40:58.839 need a little supplement there once in a while, you know. 0:40:59.000 --> 0:41:01.640 And but yeah, I've got no complaint. I mean, you know, 0:41:01.719 --> 0:41:05.040 I I've had good advice my whole life. You know, 0:41:05.440 --> 0:41:08.000 as I say, you know, I came from a so 0:41:08.120 --> 0:41:10.480 called middle class family, so I had a kind of 0:41:10.520 --> 0:41:13.080 a high bar to achieve to you know, try to 0:41:13.120 --> 0:41:15.879 get to where my my family was and stuff like that. 0:41:15.960 --> 0:41:18.799 And you know, I really have no complaints. I mean, 0:41:18.880 --> 0:41:21.360 you make good decisions, you make bad decisions, you know. 0:41:21.400 --> 0:41:24.840 I mean that to me was a tragic decision because 0:41:25.160 --> 0:41:27.800 you know, it just just was a mistake. What about 0:41:27.920 --> 0:41:32.120 record royalties? They were historically low when you started, Atlantic 0:41:32.239 --> 0:41:37.959 was not famous for paying. What's your experience, Uh, well, 0:41:38.000 --> 0:41:41.839 you know, we we really don't know. Uh you know 0:41:42.000 --> 0:41:44.239 the answer to that, because we'll never know. You know, 0:41:44.239 --> 0:41:47.160 in those days, they had a different way. They used 0:41:47.160 --> 0:41:50.680 the vinyl you know, and basically they had this uh 0:41:50.880 --> 0:41:55.440 sort of accounting mechanism where let's say, um, you print 0:41:55.560 --> 0:42:01.640 up uh fifteen thousands promotion at copies. Well, you can't 0:42:01.640 --> 0:42:04.960 get paid on those. Those are promotional, So that promotional 0:42:05.040 --> 0:42:09.359 part of the equation. It's very interesting how that fluctuated. 0:42:09.360 --> 0:42:11.320 You don't want to fluctuated that way. But yeah, we 0:42:11.400 --> 0:42:13.800 sold to Oh no, no, no, but those were promotional. 0:42:13.920 --> 0:42:17.120 Oh I see, Okay, I got you. We'll never know. 0:42:17.239 --> 0:42:20.840 I mean, we're we're we're able to do audits every 0:42:20.920 --> 0:42:25.880 five years, and you know, the tragedy of the situation, 0:42:26.120 --> 0:42:29.799 they can't even agree on doing an audit. So it's 0:42:29.840 --> 0:42:35.240 just bye bye, we'll see your money. Are they still 0:42:35.360 --> 0:42:40.200 calculating your royalties at the low sixties rate? Pretty much? Sure. 0:42:40.239 --> 0:42:43.560 We never really renegotiated. We should have. And so is 0:42:43.600 --> 0:42:46.360 there any money there? Oh yeah, I mean there's something. 0:42:46.400 --> 0:42:49.320 You know, obviously there's there's something there. It's it depends 0:42:49.320 --> 0:42:52.200 on your lifestyle, of course, you know, but there's still 0:42:52.239 --> 0:42:55.239 money there, you know. Fortunately, you know, we still have 0:42:55.360 --> 0:42:58.480 audience out there, and and and and and you know, 0:42:58.520 --> 0:43:00.719 there's so many variables to now. You know, when the 0:43:00.840 --> 0:43:07.440 radio stations started to kind of de emphasize sixties and seventies, 0:43:07.719 --> 0:43:10.040 and now you know, as as the demographic changes, you know, 0:43:10.160 --> 0:43:12.200 they get up more towards you like they Well, okay, 0:43:12.239 --> 0:43:14.960 now we don't have that that that advertisement, which is 0:43:15.000 --> 0:43:20.200 really all the radio play is. It's an advertisement, you know. Uh, well, 0:43:20.280 --> 0:43:22.799 I go on the road, you know, and uh you 0:43:22.840 --> 0:43:26.560 know that's what to a degree is an advertisement. You 0:43:26.600 --> 0:43:28.520 know what I'm saying. We do podcasts and you know, 0:43:28.640 --> 0:43:31.040 things like this keep our music alive because if you 0:43:31.080 --> 0:43:33.040 can't hear it, you know, a lot of a lot 0:43:33.120 --> 0:43:36.040 of these people were not even born, you know. I 0:43:36.040 --> 0:43:37.880 mean I I say that in my show when I 0:43:37.920 --> 0:43:40.440 do my closing storm, which is good love, and I say, hey, 0:43:40.640 --> 0:43:42.479 we'd like you to sing along. But here's the rules. 0:43:42.520 --> 0:43:53.320 If you weren't born, you don't have to see it. Okay, 0:43:53.360 --> 0:43:55.600 you're going out on the road with Nikki Dolan's how 0:43:55.640 --> 0:43:58.319 did that come together? I think that came as more 0:43:58.360 --> 0:44:02.799 of like an agency management managerial decision, you know, like, uh, 0:44:02.960 --> 0:44:05.400 you look for pairings, you know, people that get along, 0:44:05.840 --> 0:44:09.560 and I think our music's you know, kind of they 0:44:10.160 --> 0:44:12.560 they invoked this kind of real happiness, you know what 0:44:12.600 --> 0:44:14.840 I mean, because you know, there's not not a really 0:44:14.880 --> 0:44:17.520 a lot of like, you know, bad stuff in those songs, 0:44:17.560 --> 0:44:19.840 as far as like, you know, we've had enough of 0:44:19.920 --> 0:44:23.719 COVID and we've had enough of of of of you know, heartbreak, 0:44:23.800 --> 0:44:26.839 and we certainly lose losing and have lost a lot 0:44:26.880 --> 0:44:31.040 of people. I think a happy tour, you know, uh, 0:44:31.520 --> 0:44:34.480 much like you know my eternal friends do. It's not 0:44:34.520 --> 0:44:37.480 a bad idea, and I think the music would go together. 0:44:37.640 --> 0:44:40.200 He's a good guy. I've known him and the other 0:44:40.280 --> 0:44:43.680 fellows for years, and uh it's heart keeping a straight 0:44:43.680 --> 0:44:45.920 face around him because he's really funny. You know, I 0:44:45.960 --> 0:44:47.640 only know him a little bit, but I just could 0:44:47.680 --> 0:44:49.840 never get over the fact that he was in circus 0:44:49.880 --> 0:44:53.360 board and then suddenly she would say, you know a monkey, 0:44:54.000 --> 0:44:57.880 that same guy. But uh, let's go back to the beginning. 0:44:58.400 --> 0:45:01.719 So you grew up in ALM, what was pelam like that. Oh, 0:45:01.760 --> 0:45:04.480 it is a beautiful suburb. I used to say, look, 0:45:04.520 --> 0:45:06.040 you know, I've got over here. I got mom very 0:45:06.120 --> 0:45:07.719 I got near a show over there, young because I 0:45:07.760 --> 0:45:10.080 can get beat up within five miles, but right here, 0:45:10.120 --> 0:45:12.719 I'm safe. You know. It was a great town with 0:45:12.760 --> 0:45:17.520 a great, great education system. My parents moved there although 0:45:17.560 --> 0:45:20.400 they couldn't afford it, because they wanted us really to 0:45:20.480 --> 0:45:23.439 have an excellent education and that that worked. And your 0:45:23.480 --> 0:45:26.320 parents were they born in America, born in the Old Country, 0:45:26.520 --> 0:45:29.840 You were born in that They was second second generations, yes, okay. 0:45:30.120 --> 0:45:34.080 And your father was a dentist and your mother what 0:45:34.160 --> 0:45:37.280 did she do? Pharmacists? Pharmacists, So they were both working 0:45:37.320 --> 0:45:40.840 outside the home. Well, you know he was when she 0:45:40.880 --> 0:45:43.120 started having us. You know, I think she stopped. But 0:45:43.120 --> 0:45:48.359 I mean, my my mom's family, you know, very very 0:45:48.440 --> 0:45:52.760 interesting family as far as like they're kind of uh, 0:45:52.840 --> 0:45:54.839 you know, they were all doctors and you know, really 0:45:54.920 --> 0:45:57.600 really kind of important people in the medical field. You know, 0:45:57.640 --> 0:46:00.080 they were quite a family. And my dad's family me, 0:46:00.200 --> 0:46:04.280 my dad came up uh from you know, uh family 0:46:04.320 --> 0:46:07.400 that basically were His father was a barber. You know. 0:46:07.800 --> 0:46:09.760 The good thing is that he was a Wall Street barber, 0:46:09.800 --> 0:46:11.719 so when he got a tip was a real good one, 0:46:11.920 --> 0:46:16.920 you know. So, you know, it was really interesting because 0:46:16.920 --> 0:46:19.080 of the fact that, you know, there was a certain 0:46:19.400 --> 0:46:22.960 intellect you know, around the house that I always appreciated, 0:46:23.000 --> 0:46:25.919 you know, and uh uh when I went out into 0:46:25.920 --> 0:46:29.920 the real world and I realized it's a little different 0:46:29.960 --> 0:46:34.719 out here, you know. So I really had an excellent childhood. Okay, 0:46:34.760 --> 0:46:38.920 so you said you have no brothers, sister, sisters. A sister, yeah, older, younger, 0:46:39.000 --> 0:46:42.920 she's young as you can't sing. How did you end 0:46:43.040 --> 0:46:46.600 up starting at the piano? Oh? My mom? Yeah, for 0:46:46.640 --> 0:46:48.239 some reason, you know a lot of people give their 0:46:48.280 --> 0:46:51.640 kids piano lessons, you know, and for some reason, she saw, 0:46:51.880 --> 0:46:55.600 you know, a talent there, you know, and and so 0:46:55.719 --> 0:46:58.400 she enrolled me in in this pretty serious school for 0:46:58.440 --> 0:47:00.839 a five year old, you know, three lessons a week 0:47:01.800 --> 0:47:04.759 for eight years, and I got an education. I got 0:47:04.800 --> 0:47:09.760 a musical education. The the the you know, the principle 0:47:09.880 --> 0:47:13.440 was to be a classical pianist, you know, And and 0:47:13.480 --> 0:47:15.200 I did, I mean I tried. I went, you know, 0:47:15.239 --> 0:47:17.400 I did what was told. I went to Carnegie, holding 0:47:17.480 --> 0:47:19.880 my auditions and things like that, and it was just 0:47:20.280 --> 0:47:23.000 it was such a different planet that was just so interesting, 0:47:23.080 --> 0:47:26.279 you know. And and but I learned music. Okay, did 0:47:26.280 --> 0:47:29.600 you like music? I loved it? Absolutely? And did you 0:47:29.760 --> 0:47:31.839 want to practice? Because you moved back in those days 0:47:31.840 --> 0:47:33.960 of piano lessons? Getting the kids to practice was the 0:47:33.960 --> 0:47:36.320 hardest part. That's in the book. Also, my mom, she 0:47:36.400 --> 0:47:38.640 used to you know, we had you know, in the 0:47:38.640 --> 0:47:40.680 street and in the in the back where we used 0:47:40.719 --> 0:47:43.480 to play ball, we had you know, home plate was 0:47:43.520 --> 0:47:46.280 the sewer head, you know. You know, so she would 0:47:46.280 --> 0:47:49.239 come park the car there time for class. Mom, you're 0:47:49.280 --> 0:47:53.439 on the home plate, time for class. You know. That's 0:47:53.480 --> 0:47:55.760 the thing. You know. We're very lenient with our kids, 0:47:55.960 --> 0:47:58.480 you know. And that's a mistake because if she had 0:47:58.520 --> 0:48:00.239 been lenient with me, I would never I would have 0:48:00.280 --> 0:48:02.319 never learned. I wanted to go out and play Man. 0:48:02.960 --> 0:48:04.759 You know, we didn't do video games. We went out 0:48:04.760 --> 0:48:07.480 there and played man. And were you a popular kid? 0:48:07.560 --> 0:48:09.799 Good student? What kind of kids were you? You know, 0:48:09.920 --> 0:48:12.080 you're not popular until you start playing music, you know, 0:48:12.120 --> 0:48:14.400 because I was real little. You know, my friends are 0:48:14.400 --> 0:48:16.239 all these giants, you know, and like you know, they're 0:48:16.239 --> 0:48:18.400 going out for the football team. And I couldn't make 0:48:18.440 --> 0:48:20.360 the weight. You had to be hunting twenty five, you know, 0:48:20.480 --> 0:48:23.400 So what can I do? Started playing music? Oh wow, 0:48:23.520 --> 0:48:28.280 look at that a girl. It's different. It's really interesting. 0:48:28.560 --> 0:48:32.719 And how did you end up learning to play the Oregon? Ah? Well, 0:48:32.840 --> 0:48:35.880 a friend of mine said, there's a club up in 0:48:35.920 --> 0:48:39.960 New Rochelle Black Club. There's a trio in there. You 0:48:39.960 --> 0:48:42.839 want to go? So we got one problem. Man, We're 0:48:42.840 --> 0:48:45.160 not sixteen. We're not even able to walk into freaking 0:48:45.280 --> 0:48:47.120 Don't worry. I got that covered, you know, we got that. 0:48:47.600 --> 0:48:49.840 And I went in and I saw this organ trio, 0:48:50.920 --> 0:48:59.360 the Mighty Cravers, an Oregon playing bass, singing, playing leads, 0:48:59.200 --> 0:49:03.640 a sacks, and a drum, and I said, oh my god, 0:49:04.800 --> 0:49:10.080 what is that. That's a Hammond organ. Well that's when 0:49:10.120 --> 0:49:14.560 the Magical Mystery Tour Number one started. I'm in organ. 0:49:15.800 --> 0:49:17.919 How am I going to get a Let me check 0:49:17.960 --> 0:49:20.279 this out. Well, I lived in Westchester, but you know 0:49:20.280 --> 0:49:25.080 where they saw him, New York, Macy's. So I get 0:49:25.120 --> 0:49:28.319 on a train and I go down there, and I'll 0:49:28.320 --> 0:49:32.080 never forget it as long as I live. Mr Silverstein 0:49:32.200 --> 0:49:37.000 is in charge of the music department at Macy's. He says, sure, son, 0:49:37.640 --> 0:49:42.200 go right, in there. That's where the Hammonds are. I 0:49:42.239 --> 0:49:44.680 have this in the book also, But it was like, Okay, 0:49:44.719 --> 0:49:47.880 I opened the doors and here are these big machines. 0:49:48.120 --> 0:49:52.839 You know, what do I do? You can't just sit 0:49:52.880 --> 0:49:54.880 down and turn it on because it's not that easy. 0:49:54.960 --> 0:49:57.920 There's a whole situation with a Hammond. There's two switches. 0:50:00.040 --> 0:50:02.920 But he let me be in there, you know, and 0:50:03.000 --> 0:50:05.120 I felt this thing and then I found out it's 0:50:05.160 --> 0:50:08.919 three thousand dollars. I said, oh, Ben, I got a problem. Okay, well, 0:50:09.080 --> 0:50:15.239 thank you sir. Onward, but that started it. So how 0:50:15.280 --> 0:50:17.279 did you often we get it? Or well, I gotta 0:50:17.360 --> 0:50:19.720 I got a smaller one when I went to college, 0:50:19.719 --> 0:50:22.640 you know, when I when I went to college, I 0:50:22.640 --> 0:50:24.799 I kind of you know, we would play pianos with 0:50:24.920 --> 0:50:27.600 microphones sticking in the other side that they be amplified 0:50:27.640 --> 0:50:29.440 and you can keep up with the guitars, you know. 0:50:29.920 --> 0:50:33.080 But I I got a small album hamm and I 0:50:33.080 --> 0:50:36.440 think it was called an L L something. Excuse my phone. 0:50:36.440 --> 0:50:43.240 That's somebody that doesn't know I'm an important guy anyway. Okay, 0:50:43.239 --> 0:50:45.400 But as someone who went to all the rock shows 0:50:45.440 --> 0:50:47.920 in the sixties, we used to look at the Oregon 0:50:47.960 --> 0:50:52.040 and say that's a heavy thing to slipt around. Chiropractice 0:50:52.080 --> 0:50:54.239 loved me, that's for sure, you know. I you know 0:50:54.640 --> 0:50:58.000 my patience, and I know I'm sorry about that. Yeah, 0:50:58.239 --> 0:51:00.439 it was not made for the row, you know, which 0:51:00.480 --> 0:51:05.000 is so interesting because you know, Hammond really uh, I 0:51:05.040 --> 0:51:08.359 think the fellow was like a Thomas Edison type who 0:51:08.480 --> 0:51:10.600 created that instrument. You know, he did a lot of 0:51:10.640 --> 0:51:14.080 different inventions. This was one and I don't think he 0:51:14.160 --> 0:51:17.000 really ever realized what he had created in terms of 0:51:18.120 --> 0:51:22.040 musical virtuoso instrument. You know, I really don't think they knew, 0:51:22.239 --> 0:51:25.040 you know. And uh, you know, there's a great stories there. 0:51:25.880 --> 0:51:27.759 I don't know if anybody's interested, but you know that 0:51:27.880 --> 0:51:30.160 there's a there's a marriage between the Hammond organ and 0:51:30.200 --> 0:51:33.720 the Leslie speaker. You know the Leslie speakers, that box 0:51:33.800 --> 0:51:38.279 that spins around, you know and distributes the sound of 0:51:38.360 --> 0:51:41.520 the top and the bottom throughout the church or room 0:51:41.680 --> 0:51:45.480 or wherever you happen to be. Well, Hammond didn't create 0:51:45.560 --> 0:51:51.480 the speaker. This other company named Leslie did, and Hammond 0:51:51.840 --> 0:51:58.480 Company did not want that Leslie speaker anywhere near their organ. However, 0:51:58.520 --> 0:52:00.600 the speaker that they had was kind of like a 0:52:00.680 --> 0:52:04.120 Fender guitar hump. It did not it wasn't it didn't. 0:52:04.120 --> 0:52:07.719 It wasn't good. So it took them years to realize 0:52:07.880 --> 0:52:11.680 we must coexist. You know, he had no idea they 0:52:11.680 --> 0:52:16.520 had made this monstrosity of a phenomenal, you know, like instrument, 0:52:17.000 --> 0:52:20.560 which it still is. Okay, how hard was it to learn? 0:52:21.360 --> 0:52:23.319 You know, piano is pretty simple. It's got the keys 0:52:23.320 --> 0:52:26.120 and it's got the strings. But there's so many things, 0:52:26.160 --> 0:52:29.160 including bass, pedals, etcetera. On an Oregon. How long did 0:52:29.160 --> 0:52:30.879 it take you to come up to speed? How long 0:52:30.880 --> 0:52:33.160 did it take you to ride a bike? Same thing, 0:52:35.400 --> 0:52:39.040 same thing, same thing? You know. I mean you gotta 0:52:39.080 --> 0:52:41.920 do that. Oh okay, I go oh, I get it. Yeah. 0:52:42.000 --> 0:52:44.640 I mean you know, when people want to do something, 0:52:44.719 --> 0:52:47.000 you know, uh, they do it and and and and 0:52:47.080 --> 0:52:50.160 I I heard you know this, Jimmy Smith's gentleman. Oh 0:52:50.200 --> 0:52:55.240 my god, I said bad. Yeah. Most of the people 0:52:55.320 --> 0:52:58.439 that come from you know, my years way back when 0:52:58.840 --> 0:53:01.280 you know, like the Kinks and you know all these guys, 0:53:01.320 --> 0:53:04.440 you know, the they love what they do, man, you know, 0:53:04.560 --> 0:53:06.760 I mean, I I see Rod Argent, these guys many 0:53:07.440 --> 0:53:09.000 they don't have to go on the road Ringo is 0:53:09.080 --> 0:53:11.239 the best example. I mean, what he needs, he needs 0:53:11.280 --> 0:53:14.319 to go, he needs to go work. They love it 0:53:14.600 --> 0:53:17.400 and if you love it, it's easy. Don't stand that point. 0:53:17.880 --> 0:53:20.880 You know, you were a king in an era with gods. 0:53:20.960 --> 0:53:23.680 Did you know all those people? Sure we have business. 0:53:23.680 --> 0:53:26.640 We had, you know, fifteen people in those days nowadays, 0:53:26.680 --> 0:53:31.359 you know, yeah, it was a small business. You know. 0:53:31.480 --> 0:53:34.840 First of all, look, there really wasn't a big paycheck 0:53:34.880 --> 0:53:37.680 at the end of those years for most are artists, 0:53:37.680 --> 0:53:40.359 you know, I mean they didn't make any money, you know, 0:53:40.800 --> 0:53:43.520 until you know, like we started getting to beatle Land 0:53:43.560 --> 0:53:46.200 and to Zeppe Land and to cream Land and they're 0:53:46.280 --> 0:53:48.279 rolling stone Land. So you had to be a little 0:53:48.280 --> 0:53:52.680 bit insane to do this, you know. And second of all, um, 0:53:52.719 --> 0:53:56.960 you know, there wasn't that many people doing it, and 0:53:56.960 --> 0:53:59.120 and those of us that we're doing it, you know 0:53:59.320 --> 0:54:02.399 before right before our time, when Murray the k and 0:54:02.480 --> 0:54:05.359 of course Alan Freed and and they used to have 0:54:05.400 --> 0:54:08.120 these shows. They had like ten fifteen acts on the show, 0:54:09.160 --> 0:54:11.480 you know, I mean we would Wick of Bo Diddley Man, 0:54:11.560 --> 0:54:13.719 we would have Paddi LaBelle. I mean they would be 0:54:13.760 --> 0:54:16.839 on the same stage. You can't like nowadays, because you're 0:54:16.840 --> 0:54:20.279 two thousand dollars to go to that show. But it 0:54:20.320 --> 0:54:22.800 was different, you know, and Chuck Berry would be there, 0:54:22.840 --> 0:54:27.000 and you know, it was just a lot more about music, 0:54:27.080 --> 0:54:29.399 and you know, they couldn't choge. It was like three 0:54:29.400 --> 0:54:32.279 dollars went five dollars to get in. Yeah, let's let's 0:54:32.320 --> 0:54:34.480 go back to that era. You're obviously a little older 0:54:34.480 --> 0:54:37.759 than I am, but I certainly remember everybody had a 0:54:37.760 --> 0:54:41.480 transistor radio by time I came along. Elvis was kind 0:54:41.480 --> 0:54:43.840 of in the rear view mirror in the army. But 0:54:44.160 --> 0:54:46.960 we had the Beach Boys, we had Frankie Valley, and 0:54:47.000 --> 0:54:49.080 we had a lot of people who were derided, like 0:54:49.200 --> 0:54:52.360 Fabian and Bobby right absolutely. Then all of a sudden, 0:54:52.360 --> 0:54:55.160 the Beatles come and the whole thing blows up. But 0:54:55.280 --> 0:54:57.920 what I find interesting is the people who followed in 0:54:57.960 --> 0:55:01.680 their wake, certainly a media. They've been in the business, 0:55:01.680 --> 0:55:05.440 they've been playing music before. So my question to you 0:55:05.719 --> 0:55:09.279 is what inspired you, what turned you on? What was 0:55:09.360 --> 0:55:12.680 it like before the Beatles? Well, Elvis of course was there. 0:55:12.719 --> 0:55:16.080 You know, Elvis was there again. You know this is 0:55:16.120 --> 0:55:19.920 all in that book, you know, But I was in school, 0:55:20.040 --> 0:55:22.399 you know, I was a Junior H what he called 0:55:22.440 --> 0:55:27.560 Junior High. And this you know the alphabet ties you 0:55:27.719 --> 0:55:29.800 see A V C A L C A L was 0:55:29.880 --> 0:55:32.880 right in front of me. John become one of my 0:55:32.960 --> 0:55:36.640 dear friends. We we just were joining up because you know, 0:55:36.719 --> 0:55:39.319 basically we were all different elementary schools that that had 0:55:39.360 --> 0:55:42.480 come to Junior High. Sis, Hey, you like rock and roll. 0:55:43.760 --> 0:55:46.279 I had no idea what he was talking about. I 0:55:46.280 --> 0:55:52.359 I had never heard the word. We were classically kind 0:55:52.360 --> 0:55:54.000 of like you know, a religion. You know, I don't 0:55:54.040 --> 0:55:56.120 want you to go into those other denominations. You stay 0:55:56.239 --> 0:55:58.680 right here now. I couldn't listen, but I said yes 0:55:58.719 --> 0:56:00.920 because I didn't want to be like, know where this 0:56:00.960 --> 0:56:03.799 guy come from. But I went home, turn on this 0:56:03.880 --> 0:56:08.120 little green box web Corp. Whatever it was, and I 0:56:08.160 --> 0:56:12.359 heard this guy Alan Freed, and I heard this guy 0:56:12.440 --> 0:56:17.600 Ray Charles and Jerry Lee Lewis, and I said, oh 0:56:17.680 --> 0:56:21.400 my god, this facts don't want He's playing the piano. 0:56:21.480 --> 0:56:24.920 That's what I play. Oh wow. And it just starts 0:56:24.960 --> 0:56:27.239 you off and you say, like, you know, I think 0:56:27.400 --> 0:56:29.840 I think I could do this, you know, let me 0:56:29.920 --> 0:56:32.799 try it. You know, Well, this whole world opened up, 0:56:33.320 --> 0:56:35.879 you know, to all of us not just I mean, 0:56:35.960 --> 0:56:37.920 you know, beatles have the same story coming from the 0:56:37.960 --> 0:56:40.880 English point of view, from the radio, from pirate radio 0:56:40.960 --> 0:56:43.560 and all that kind of stuff. It just it just 0:56:44.760 --> 0:56:46.719 it's just like, well, that's what I do. I play 0:56:46.760 --> 0:56:49.319 that instrument, but I don't play it like that. Let 0:56:49.320 --> 0:56:51.800 me see if I can do it. That's how it starts. 0:56:51.880 --> 0:56:54.640 At what point did the dream of making this a 0:56:54.760 --> 0:56:58.120 career come to you? Well, you know, it really never 0:56:58.200 --> 0:57:01.719 came to me. And you know, basically, I I you know, 0:57:01.719 --> 0:57:03.480 I get a chance to speak at a lot of 0:57:03.840 --> 0:57:05.759 you know, I used to speak at Berkeley College of 0:57:05.880 --> 0:57:08.520 Music when I lived on the East Coast, and you know, 0:57:08.520 --> 0:57:10.400 I tell the young people, I said, look, you know, 0:57:10.920 --> 0:57:13.920 you have no idea what's going to happen? You really don't, 0:57:13.960 --> 0:57:17.600 you know, And and and you know, I tell my story, 0:57:17.640 --> 0:57:19.720 which is what we're talking about here. I was supposed 0:57:19.760 --> 0:57:21.640 to be pre I was pre med. I mean, I 0:57:21.680 --> 0:57:24.440 was going you know, the way of my my my family, 0:57:24.480 --> 0:57:27.280 you know. But I had a band up there, you know, 0:57:27.320 --> 0:57:29.840 I had a group called the Escorts and lou Reed 0:57:29.920 --> 0:57:31.520 went to the school at the same time. You know, 0:57:31.560 --> 0:57:34.240 in Syracuse is a very very I mean it was 0:57:34.360 --> 0:57:37.840 so much fun. I mean, I'm I'm I mean I 0:57:38.040 --> 0:57:39.760 used to play for all the athletes. I used to 0:57:39.800 --> 0:57:41.960 play for the you know, the homecoming. We had a 0:57:42.000 --> 0:57:43.640 good team and those days it was more of a 0:57:43.680 --> 0:57:46.760 football school. But I played for all the parties. I said, 0:57:47.080 --> 0:57:50.439 you know what, this is really fun. And then another guy, 0:57:50.560 --> 0:57:54.400 another gentleman from our band we had, you know, fraternities, 0:57:54.440 --> 0:57:57.000 we had to zbt you know, and his father, uh 0:57:57.320 --> 0:58:00.160 had big connections up in the Catsco Mountains. Usaid, want 0:58:00.160 --> 0:58:03.040 to want to go to the Castle Mountains first summer? Yeah? 0:58:03.320 --> 0:58:07.080 When on? I never went back. I had so much 0:58:07.320 --> 0:58:10.000 I mean, I was just I loved it, you know, 0:58:10.080 --> 0:58:12.720 and here I am, and you know, it's all in 0:58:12.760 --> 0:58:14.720 the in the book, so to speak. But I had 0:58:14.800 --> 0:58:17.120 no idea that I was going to be a musician. 0:58:17.160 --> 0:58:21.640 I had absolutely no idea until you know it. Just 0:58:21.720 --> 0:58:23.160 to tell us some I hooked it up with Joey 0:58:23.240 --> 0:58:25.320 D and the Starlighters. Yeah, well again, you know, like 0:58:25.640 --> 0:58:28.800 what happened is every every weekend when a headliner would 0:58:28.800 --> 0:58:32.160 come in, you know, and um that headliner in this 0:58:32.200 --> 0:58:35.120 case was Joey D and the star Lighters. And that's 0:58:35.160 --> 0:58:39.240 when my life really really changed because up until then 0:58:39.280 --> 0:58:42.520 I had not that much contact with New Jersey. Itights, 0:58:43.240 --> 0:58:45.800 you know, and when I met the New Jersey it's, 0:58:46.200 --> 0:58:50.200 oh my god, oh my god. I I was introduced 0:58:50.200 --> 0:58:55.440 to another planet, you know, and it's it's something that 0:58:55.520 --> 0:58:57.680 you know, like I'll never forget, you know that. The 0:58:57.760 --> 0:59:00.360 first thing that I remember is this gentleman by the 0:59:00.480 --> 0:59:03.040 name of David Brigatti who was remember coming into the 0:59:03.120 --> 0:59:04.760 dressing room and looking at my nose and he says, 0:59:05.160 --> 0:59:08.880 are you Jewish? I said what he said? When I 0:59:08.880 --> 0:59:11.880 saw that, I didn't know, you know, I said, Okay, 0:59:11.920 --> 0:59:15.560 this is going to be something they saw me I 0:59:15.600 --> 0:59:18.000 was doing. Uh. I had to play for the lounges, 0:59:18.040 --> 0:59:19.280 and I had to play for the you know. I 0:59:19.280 --> 0:59:21.360 played for the for the for the for the hotel 0:59:21.480 --> 0:59:25.120 was the Rollie up there, and uh. They went to 0:59:25.200 --> 0:59:30.120 Europe right after that, and their organist had just recently 0:59:30.120 --> 0:59:32.920 gotten married and didn't want to stay. He wanted to 0:59:32.920 --> 0:59:37.120 go home. So they called me and they said, would 0:59:37.160 --> 0:59:42.880 you like to join us in Germany? And uh, I 0:59:43.000 --> 0:59:45.560 know how to tell My father said, Dad, I got this. 0:59:45.720 --> 0:59:49.520 You know, maybe I shouldn't go back to the university. 0:59:49.560 --> 0:59:55.240 What do you think so and I went and I 0:59:55.600 --> 1:00:00.800 went over there, and you know, I went into this 1:00:00.920 --> 1:00:04.440 club that they were and there was this group opening 1:00:04.520 --> 1:00:09.520 up for for Joey and everybody screaming and hollering and yelling. 1:00:09.560 --> 1:00:16.640 And I said, the Beatles. The what yeah, Wow, what's 1:00:16.640 --> 1:00:19.160 going on here? Wow? Man, Beetles are huge over here. 1:00:19.320 --> 1:00:21.960 This is before they came to the United States, So 1:00:22.000 --> 1:00:26.560 what is this? And you know, long hair kids were going. 1:00:26.600 --> 1:00:29.360 I mean, they were just hysterical. I mean, this was 1:00:29.440 --> 1:00:31.520 for real. This was not you know, stage don't I 1:00:31.560 --> 1:00:33.200 do it at the Super Bowl? And they put the 1:00:33.360 --> 1:00:35.400 fans up near the stage so they looked like they're 1:00:35.400 --> 1:00:38.720 having fun. But these these people were gone. And then 1:00:38.840 --> 1:00:41.760 I started listening to the music, you know, and I said, phoo, 1:00:42.080 --> 1:00:46.760 what I could hear? They're a singing group. You know, 1:00:47.000 --> 1:00:51.400 they're really not musicians. You know, you couldn't tell the 1:00:51.480 --> 1:00:53.840 geniuses that were on that stage quite yet. You couldn't 1:00:53.840 --> 1:00:57.040 even hear them. And and and and and and I 1:00:57.200 --> 1:01:00.120 listened to the music and I remember vividly the m 1:01:01.080 --> 1:01:06.040 when they did American music. They are right, you know, 1:01:06.160 --> 1:01:09.240 they have a very different way of syncopation, their rhythm structure, 1:01:09.240 --> 1:01:12.240 their rhythm is more. It's it's not as syncopated. It 1:01:12.280 --> 1:01:15.680 doesn't have like the ends and the sixteenth notes and stuff. 1:01:16.000 --> 1:01:19.440 But when they did their music, when they did I 1:01:19.480 --> 1:01:21.800 want to hold your hand, loved me do it's just 1:01:21.880 --> 1:01:26.320 how do your ears just went? What is that? Wow? Man, 1:01:27.080 --> 1:01:30.120 that's pretty dawned cool. You know, little did we know? 1:01:30.280 --> 1:01:33.280 Little did I know that I was going to do this. 1:01:33.680 --> 1:01:35.320 Little did I know that the rest of the world 1:01:35.360 --> 1:01:37.360 was going to find out what I had just heard 1:01:37.400 --> 1:01:39.720 not too long after that, and in America with its 1:01:39.720 --> 1:01:42.480 solid So that's when I kind of made this decision. 1:01:42.520 --> 1:01:47.480 I said, you know what, I could do this. There's 1:01:47.520 --> 1:01:49.520 nothing that these guys are doing. Little did I know 1:01:49.560 --> 1:01:52.880 they were total composition geniuses. You know, we didn't know 1:01:52.920 --> 1:01:57.720 that I could do this. Let's go youth man, there's 1:01:57.800 --> 1:02:01.439 nothing like it. How long did you with Joey? What 1:02:01.480 --> 1:02:04.280 was the inspiration for leaving? And then what you do? Well? 1:02:04.720 --> 1:02:07.600 You know I came back with joe and you know 1:02:08.040 --> 1:02:10.200 that was quite an organization. Man. Let me tell you, 1:02:10.400 --> 1:02:13.080 almost work back to school, you know, because it was 1:02:13.160 --> 1:02:15.760 so you know, it wasn't like you know, you you 1:02:15.880 --> 1:02:19.800 look and there weren't a very sophisticated type of organization. 1:02:19.880 --> 1:02:22.760 So I met Frankie Valley. You know, frank Frankie Valley 1:02:22.840 --> 1:02:25.520 was the first kind of person that I met that 1:02:25.680 --> 1:02:28.000 really had his act together in those days, you know 1:02:28.040 --> 1:02:29.800 what I mean. He wasn't just out there to party 1:02:29.840 --> 1:02:32.280 and to have fun, and you know, he he was 1:02:32.320 --> 1:02:36.080 out there to succeed. And I saw that. Oh wow, yeah, 1:02:36.720 --> 1:02:39.680 m hm, with all due respect, yeah, they had some 1:02:39.680 --> 1:02:42.040 smart people out here. I get it, you know, because 1:02:42.080 --> 1:02:44.800 Frankie was there before Joey, you know. And and and 1:02:44.800 --> 1:02:47.760 frank has always been like a you know, an older brother. 1:02:47.800 --> 1:02:49.439 You know. He always tells me to cut your hair, 1:02:49.560 --> 1:02:51.280 and you know, we're a tie, and you know, that's 1:02:51.320 --> 1:02:53.600 that's that's that's that's the way he treats me as 1:02:53.680 --> 1:02:56.760 as a you know, as as a nephew or something, 1:02:56.800 --> 1:03:00.400 you know. So, you know, I just stay with Joey 1:03:00.440 --> 1:03:02.720 for a while, and then I took another job, which 1:03:02.760 --> 1:03:05.000 was out in Las Vegas, and then I got drafted. 1:03:05.080 --> 1:03:07.720 And you know that that's the real difference between then 1:03:07.760 --> 1:03:11.800 and now, you know, did you have to remember those days? 1:03:11.840 --> 1:03:13.960 I mean, I don't believe you can never forget him. 1:03:14.200 --> 1:03:16.320 You can never forget him. That's also in the book. 1:03:16.480 --> 1:03:19.080 And I tried to be as nice as I could 1:03:19.080 --> 1:03:21.760 about it because but until until I was you know, 1:03:21.880 --> 1:03:27.640 relieved of my duty, you know, as a mercenary. You know, 1:03:28.120 --> 1:03:29.880 I that was the point of starting a group when 1:03:29.920 --> 1:03:32.280 when I left school, uh, you know, basically I went 1:03:32.280 --> 1:03:37.600 on into the real world. Um uh, you know, reality 1:03:37.640 --> 1:03:39.200 sits in. I mean, you know, like, wow, it's nice 1:03:39.200 --> 1:03:40.960 you have a hotel job, you get paid to eat 1:03:41.000 --> 1:03:42.720 and sleep, you know, but when you go out into 1:03:42.800 --> 1:03:44.480 the world and you're trying to make a living as 1:03:44.480 --> 1:03:47.160 a musician, it's a whole different thing. Why start a 1:03:47.200 --> 1:03:49.520 band until why why do anything until I get this 1:03:49.600 --> 1:03:51.960 draft out of the way, you know what, all due respect, 1:03:52.000 --> 1:03:54.920 in the early days, they were very very very uh 1:03:55.000 --> 1:03:56.720 you know they were They was a little bit more 1:03:56.760 --> 1:03:59.720 careful who they brought in. You know, they didn't want me. 1:04:00.080 --> 1:04:01.960 They said, hey, if there's a nuke war, we'll call you. 1:04:02.000 --> 1:04:04.520 Other than that, you know, you can go okay, So 1:04:04.640 --> 1:04:07.760 you're free of that obligation. Is it then that you 1:04:07.800 --> 1:04:11.400 start to put together the Rascals? Absolutely? Absolutely? How did 1:04:11.400 --> 1:04:14.160 you do that? Well? Basically, you know, I mean, you know, 1:04:14.920 --> 1:04:17.120 God works as strange ways. You know, it puts people 1:04:17.120 --> 1:04:19.200 in your life, you know basically that you know, like 1:04:19.320 --> 1:04:21.800 belong there, you know what I mean. There's like this well, 1:04:21.840 --> 1:04:24.200 I was working in the Joey's Club because I went 1:04:24.240 --> 1:04:26.640 back there after, you know, after a while, because I, 1:04:26.880 --> 1:04:28.640 you know, needed to make a living at the time. 1:04:28.680 --> 1:04:31.480 And they had a drummer that they had a band 1:04:31.480 --> 1:04:34.200 there that it's called the Starlighters. And this time was Eddie, 1:04:34.280 --> 1:04:37.440 not his brother Eddie. And and this guy, just this 1:04:37.520 --> 1:04:40.360 young man from Rochester, New York, Gene Cornish, came in 1:04:40.440 --> 1:04:43.400 from Rochester, New York. You know, he would try to 1:04:43.440 --> 1:04:45.600 make it in the in the business. He had a 1:04:45.600 --> 1:04:49.000 group up in Rochester called the Unbeatables. Interesting, you know, 1:04:49.080 --> 1:04:50.840 and and then he came to New York and he 1:04:51.080 --> 1:04:53.440 and he hit the wall, you know, the wall of 1:04:54.040 --> 1:04:56.760 what are you kidding? This is this is a whole 1:04:56.800 --> 1:05:00.040 different world. Man from Rochester, New York. He started on 1:05:00.400 --> 1:05:04.760 this stall Adder band, uh, the the the uh myself 1:05:04.960 --> 1:05:07.560 Eddie Geen. We had an interesting drummer. We had a 1:05:07.600 --> 1:05:12.040 young young drummer from Brooklyn at the time. And then 1:05:12.080 --> 1:05:13.600 and as I say, you know, when I when I 1:05:13.760 --> 1:05:16.840 kind of kind of start putting my plans together, I 1:05:16.880 --> 1:05:19.400 asked him. I said, look, why don't we do our 1:05:19.440 --> 1:05:24.480 own thing? What do you mean, why don't we try 1:05:24.760 --> 1:05:27.760 and make it in the music business. Interestingly enough that 1:05:27.840 --> 1:05:31.520 the the the drummer didn't want to go. He got 1:05:31.560 --> 1:05:33.640 another offer from a group that was kind of like 1:05:34.080 --> 1:05:37.520 steady work, which I understand. You know, you got you 1:05:37.600 --> 1:05:39.960 gotta work. You know, this is all speculative, still is 1:05:40.000 --> 1:05:44.160 always will be. And h then again, you know, the 1:05:44.600 --> 1:05:48.880 hand of faith. I had this woman that said to me, well, 1:05:49.360 --> 1:05:52.160 I know a better drummer, and I and and and 1:05:52.240 --> 1:05:56.160 I say, you know you're a banker. You know what, 1:05:56.320 --> 1:05:58.640 what do you know? You know? She took me to 1:05:58.680 --> 1:06:01.640 see this, this this gentleman by the name of Dino Dannelly. 1:06:01.720 --> 1:06:05.320 I saw him through a window at the Metropole. I 1:06:05.320 --> 1:06:09.400 saw him do two songs and I said, oh my god, 1:06:10.640 --> 1:06:12.360 do you know a guitar player? No, I didn't mean 1:06:12.840 --> 1:06:16.080 so anyway, I just I couldn't believe this guy. You know, 1:06:16.240 --> 1:06:19.240 he was like, you know, he was not only playing 1:06:19.280 --> 1:06:23.000 the drums, well, he was doing a show because his 1:06:23.240 --> 1:06:28.120 life was part of like the Louie Bellson Uh, you know, 1:06:28.160 --> 1:06:32.560 Buddy Rich Uh, you know people who were Lionel Hampton. 1:06:32.720 --> 1:06:35.120 These were people. Basically, they were the leaders of their band. 1:06:35.160 --> 1:06:38.000 In the back of the band as as a drummer, 1:06:38.040 --> 1:06:41.520 they put on a show besides being in perfect time 1:06:41.520 --> 1:06:45.160 and doing I couldn't believe it. So I know I 1:06:45.200 --> 1:06:48.120 had the ingredients. Let's go try it. Okay, what were 1:06:48.160 --> 1:06:50.440 the next steps? How do you get from there to 1:06:50.480 --> 1:06:53.880 the Hampton's Well, basically, uh, you know, we we we 1:06:53.960 --> 1:06:57.360 rehearsed at my my father's home. We went down in 1:06:57.440 --> 1:07:00.160 the basement area we had, and we went out to 1:07:00.280 --> 1:07:03.760 the to the world to get jobs. And we got 1:07:03.800 --> 1:07:05.400 a few jobs. A matter of fact, I just did 1:07:05.400 --> 1:07:09.080 a show down in Florida with one of the uh uh, 1:07:09.760 --> 1:07:12.080 the sons of the first place that we worked. The 1:07:12.160 --> 1:07:14.560 first place we worked was in Garfield, New Jersey, at 1:07:14.560 --> 1:07:17.640 the Churchoo Club. And this gentleman came to see me. 1:07:17.760 --> 1:07:20.200 He's like eighty three now, you know, and and uh 1:07:20.480 --> 1:07:24.720 he hired us. He hired me at that time, and uh, 1:07:25.720 --> 1:07:28.040 all of a sudden, one day, this gentleman comes in 1:07:28.240 --> 1:07:31.400 from this uh famous club in New York City called 1:07:31.400 --> 1:07:35.280 on Dean's. Now it wasn't I'm not sure if it 1:07:35.320 --> 1:07:37.320 was on Dean's. I think it was better been on 1:07:37.360 --> 1:07:42.840 Dean's and his name was Romi Aguieri and he said, 1:07:43.200 --> 1:07:45.200 I've got an idea. Can I speak to you? And 1:07:45.240 --> 1:07:47.200 you know, I said, yeah, can you sat down? He said, 1:07:48.120 --> 1:07:50.240 I want to open a club in the Hampton's for 1:07:50.320 --> 1:07:55.320 the summer. We'd like you to be the band. Now. 1:07:55.400 --> 1:07:57.320 I grew up not too far from the Hamptons, and 1:07:57.360 --> 1:08:00.440 I realized what was going on going on over that 1:08:00.520 --> 1:08:05.920 part of Long Island. That's where everybody who has anything 1:08:06.640 --> 1:08:09.800 I would like to be this summer. We're gonna be fine. 1:08:10.400 --> 1:08:13.360 Let's take it. Just to be clear, how long after 1:08:13.360 --> 1:08:16.040 you formed the band? Does this happen? Six months or 1:08:16.120 --> 1:08:18.080 not even six month? We had a deal in six months, 1:08:18.080 --> 1:08:20.000 just like two months. We were good, man, We had 1:08:20.000 --> 1:08:23.320 a good band. I mean these guys, you know, See 1:08:23.360 --> 1:08:27.000 the thing is like most bands have one guy, you know, 1:08:27.520 --> 1:08:29.880 and that guy is like, you know, he's the head 1:08:30.080 --> 1:08:33.840 Headhunt show. You know. I have four guys that either 1:08:33.880 --> 1:08:37.599 we're leaders or their own band. Let't me tell you. Wait, 1:08:37.640 --> 1:08:39.599 where do you want to look? These guys were good, man, 1:08:39.880 --> 1:08:42.439 you know, they were really good, you know. And and 1:08:42.439 --> 1:08:44.200 and so when you looked on the stage, you know, 1:08:44.280 --> 1:08:46.680 like you said, wow, chick. I mean Johnston Basch justs 1:08:46.680 --> 1:08:48.840 got the best story about that. You have to ask 1:08:48.920 --> 1:08:51.280 him about that. He I think he he says it 1:08:51.320 --> 1:08:52.960 all the time. When when the Love is poom Full 1:08:53.000 --> 1:08:55.840 first came to see the Rascals, they said, boy, we 1:08:55.960 --> 1:08:59.160 better get to work man, these guys. He did, man, 1:08:59.600 --> 1:09:01.200 you know, because we were kind of like rivals in 1:09:01.240 --> 1:09:04.080 those days. He was the downtown and we were the uptown. 1:09:04.160 --> 1:09:06.200 You know, and I love him. He's one of the 1:09:06.280 --> 1:09:09.400 nicest human beings I've ever met. But you know, yeah, 1:09:09.560 --> 1:09:12.080 it didn't take long because we were good. You know, 1:09:12.160 --> 1:09:14.880 we were good, and we attracted you know, crowds. We 1:09:14.920 --> 1:09:17.759 had a lot of help. The The interesting thing about 1:09:17.880 --> 1:09:21.439 us is that our hometowns, you know, in my case 1:09:21.479 --> 1:09:25.519 Pelham and in Eddie's case, Garfield, they supported us. You know, 1:09:25.560 --> 1:09:27.720 these people would come out to the shows and say, hey, man, 1:09:27.760 --> 1:09:29.439 you know, I got I got a great idea. How 1:09:29.479 --> 1:09:31.240 about if I do this? You know, we had just 1:09:31.320 --> 1:09:35.639 one one guy, one kid whose father you know, when 1:09:35.640 --> 1:09:38.200 we would work in the early clubs, you know those 1:09:38.240 --> 1:09:41.040 big floodlights they put up when you have the you know, 1:09:41.160 --> 1:09:44.240 the bazaars and league lights. He put them on in 1:09:44.320 --> 1:09:46.840 front of the place. And when day I asked him, 1:09:46.840 --> 1:09:52.920 I said, Billy, who's it was? Paying stuff? He put 1:09:53.000 --> 1:09:56.120 on his father's credit card. You know. But we had 1:09:56.120 --> 1:10:00.000 people like really supporting the troop. They really wanted to. Yeah, 1:10:00.040 --> 1:10:02.000 when I got an idea, let's let's let's let's put 1:10:02.040 --> 1:10:04.400 posters up on all the stops signs, oh yeah, that 1:10:04.560 --> 1:10:07.320 the cops are gonna love that. You know, there was 1:10:07.360 --> 1:10:11.000 a there was a this is gonna happen, you know, 1:10:11.040 --> 1:10:13.000 which is why, you know, I get so sad when 1:10:13.040 --> 1:10:15.760 I when I talk about and speak about the you know, 1:10:15.800 --> 1:10:18.639 so called present tense of of the fact that nobody 1:10:18.880 --> 1:10:23.880 we had a phenomenal base, our team. But then we 1:10:24.040 --> 1:10:26.160 just were just great people, you know what I mean. 1:10:26.160 --> 1:10:28.519 There were people, the families, and you know, it was 1:10:28.640 --> 1:10:33.040 it was kind of like, you know, a collaboration of 1:10:33.040 --> 1:10:35.800 of of a few towns in America. You know, let's 1:10:35.880 --> 1:10:39.240 let's make this happen, you know, and and so uh, 1:10:39.280 --> 1:10:49.920 you know, it wasn't long at all. Was the dream 1:10:50.040 --> 1:10:53.000 to make a living playing live? Or was the dream 1:10:53.080 --> 1:10:55.879 to get a record deal? Who knows? I mean, seriously, 1:10:55.920 --> 1:10:58.800 I mean, as I say, you know, there's this Jean 1:10:58.920 --> 1:11:01.240 d viv or whatever you wanna all about playing music 1:11:01.320 --> 1:11:03.960 that you know, like, you know, a lot of us have. 1:11:04.600 --> 1:11:06.760 You know, some people are able to do it. Some 1:11:06.800 --> 1:11:09.320 people have to do it after they've you know, completed 1:11:09.360 --> 1:11:13.519 their their their their retire retire re fund. But I 1:11:13.600 --> 1:11:15.679 was able to do it, So I never really had 1:11:16.400 --> 1:11:18.240 I can never really say I had any kind of 1:11:18.320 --> 1:11:21.200 you know, I just knew I had to do this 1:11:21.320 --> 1:11:23.080 music after a while, you know, I could feel it 1:11:23.120 --> 1:11:24.960 coming through me. I gotta do this, It has to 1:11:25.000 --> 1:11:26.640 be done, has to be and let me, let me, 1:11:26.720 --> 1:11:29.479 let me get the Catharsis of this. Let me do this. 1:11:29.560 --> 1:11:32.439 I love. So how did you you're playing in the Hamptons, 1:11:32.479 --> 1:11:34.840 how did you end up getting a record deal? Well? Here, 1:11:34.920 --> 1:11:37.800 here's here's where. You know, we got Betty Davis coming, 1:11:37.840 --> 1:11:40.759 we got all these big you know, record record people 1:11:40.760 --> 1:11:43.479 coming in and you know, Phil Specter's coming, and well 1:11:43.520 --> 1:11:47.240 what happened basically is is a gentleman by the name 1:11:47.280 --> 1:11:51.760 of Walter Hyman, who was a textile uh, very very 1:11:51.840 --> 1:11:57.840 very wealthy man sauce and he said called up his buddy, 1:11:57.840 --> 1:12:02.680 said Bernstein, who was in the business. Sid came up 1:12:02.800 --> 1:12:06.639 and they decided to form a management company and manage us. Well. 1:12:06.680 --> 1:12:09.360 From that point, now we entered into the real world 1:12:09.720 --> 1:12:12.760 of like you know, marketing and so called you know, 1:12:12.800 --> 1:12:14.559 put the name in the in the New York Post 1:12:14.600 --> 1:12:19.120 and all those magazines and newspapers. Rather and uh, the 1:12:19.200 --> 1:12:22.840 record company started to come out. So when when when 1:12:22.880 --> 1:12:25.800 Sid and Walter came on. First of all, they doubled 1:12:25.800 --> 1:12:27.920 our salary. We're getting peanuts, you know. And he said, 1:12:27.960 --> 1:12:29.559 you know, I guess what's bringing these people. And it's 1:12:29.560 --> 1:12:32.200 not the ship, it's these guys. And so you know, 1:12:32.240 --> 1:12:34.920 everything changed. I was running the band at that time 1:12:34.920 --> 1:12:37.360 out of a book, you know, This Business of Music, 1:12:37.400 --> 1:12:40.600 which is a classic for anybody who wants anything to 1:12:40.640 --> 1:12:44.400 do with contracts or and and I don't know what 1:12:44.439 --> 1:12:46.320 to do, you know, basically, but when he came in, 1:12:46.360 --> 1:12:49.599 when Sid and Walter came in, that, uh, the owners 1:12:49.680 --> 1:12:51.880 now became okay, let's get him a record deal. You 1:12:51.920 --> 1:12:54.960 talk about it being a different era in the floors 1:12:55.040 --> 1:12:58.839 of Sid relative to other people. What was good about 1:12:58.960 --> 1:13:03.200 Sid and what did Walter rad other than the connection. Well, 1:13:03.400 --> 1:13:08.639 at that time, Walter was the business uh man, you know, Sid, 1:13:08.760 --> 1:13:11.679 Sid and Bernstein, you know who also has a book 1:13:11.720 --> 1:13:15.320 that's uh. He was like the last of the kind 1:13:15.320 --> 1:13:19.200 of Mike Todd type of individuals, you know. He he 1:13:19.200 --> 1:13:22.360 he had a vision of what could be. You know, 1:13:22.520 --> 1:13:25.120 like for example, when Bobby Fisher was in the Chess 1:13:25.479 --> 1:13:28.240 World with Boris Spassky, I think people would like to 1:13:28.280 --> 1:13:30.719 see this, So he brought it to the United States. 1:13:31.120 --> 1:13:34.559 So the Beatles brought it to the United States. You know, 1:13:34.640 --> 1:13:38.959 he saw actually karate and taekwondo brought it to Madisons 1:13:38.960 --> 1:13:43.000 Gregg Garden. He was a visionary in that capacity and 1:13:43.040 --> 1:13:46.479 that he could see this is happening, This is happening, 1:13:46.960 --> 1:13:49.840 this is happening. He still got to pay the bills. 1:13:50.000 --> 1:13:52.719 He's still got you still got to feed the dog, 1:13:52.800 --> 1:13:55.479 you know what I'm saying. That's where he wasn't see 1:13:55.479 --> 1:13:57.880 he was. He was a visionary. You know, you take 1:13:57.880 --> 1:13:59.960 a risk. You know. One of the Sid Bernstein story, 1:14:00.040 --> 1:14:03.639 he's remember the Newport Jazz Festival and then they had 1:14:03.640 --> 1:14:07.400 those riots. You know, I guess I could tell the 1:14:07.560 --> 1:14:10.240 story when when they had the riots, the next year 1:14:10.360 --> 1:14:14.880 was canceled. So Sid says, no, no, we got to 1:14:14.920 --> 1:14:19.559 resurrect this. He went out and borrowed money to make 1:14:19.640 --> 1:14:24.200 that thing happen the next year, knowing he should have 1:14:24.479 --> 1:14:27.080 full well he was going to lose a lot of money. 1:14:27.640 --> 1:14:30.120 But that was sid He was that kind of man. 1:14:30.200 --> 1:14:33.120 He had. He had a different kind of outlook on 1:14:33.120 --> 1:14:36.040 on on the world that was from a very very 1:14:36.360 --> 1:14:39.960 sincere Uh probably wanted to please, you know, he wanted 1:14:39.960 --> 1:14:43.200 to entertain, you know, and and and and that was 1:14:43.280 --> 1:14:46.679 just said eight kids later. I have to ask, because 1:14:46.720 --> 1:14:49.880 of the legendary stories of Colonel Tom Parker, do you 1:14:49.920 --> 1:14:53.599 remember what their percentage was? Uh? Well, it changed because 1:14:53.640 --> 1:14:55.400 of the fact that he was he was a company. 1:14:55.439 --> 1:14:58.040 Prior to that, I don't remember, but it wasn't It 1:14:58.080 --> 1:15:00.839 wasn't obscene at at all. Though we were fairly treated. 1:15:00.880 --> 1:15:02.560 I always felt we were okay. So how do you 1:15:02.600 --> 1:15:05.080 end up in Atlantic Records? Certain people came through the door. 1:15:05.080 --> 1:15:08.439 I wanted to sign us up. For example, Mr Spector 1:15:08.600 --> 1:15:12.479 came in and uh, you know, I had to really 1:15:14.000 --> 1:15:17.719 I loved his music. I mean, you know what he did, 1:15:18.000 --> 1:15:21.479 you know, just you know, we just lost our dear 1:15:21.560 --> 1:15:24.360 friend ire Ronnie. You know. But I had to say, 1:15:24.400 --> 1:15:26.120 I say, look, guys, I don't want to go with 1:15:26.160 --> 1:15:28.679 Phil Specter. I don't want to be phil specter ized, 1:15:29.720 --> 1:15:31.439 what do you mean, man? I said, no, no, no, no, 1:15:31.680 --> 1:15:35.160 I want to produce ourselves. Don't you understand they like 1:15:35.360 --> 1:15:39.040 what they hear these people. Let's do it ourselves. I 1:15:39.120 --> 1:15:41.000 know I can do this. You know when I when 1:15:41.040 --> 1:15:44.880 I was growing up, I heard this record called Money 1:15:44.880 --> 1:15:49.200 by Barrett Strong. I think it was produced by Barry Gordy. 1:15:49.360 --> 1:15:52.519 What does that mean produced? Oh you mean you put 1:15:52.560 --> 1:15:56.200 it together. I could do that. I could do anything. 1:15:56.880 --> 1:15:58.880 So I wanted to be a producer. I I just 1:15:58.920 --> 1:16:00.560 didn't want to go in there and have somebody tell me, 1:16:00.600 --> 1:16:02.599 you know what you should sound like. There's no no, no, no, no. 1:16:03.160 --> 1:16:04.680 This is what I want to sound like. You like it, 1:16:04.720 --> 1:16:07.360 don't you? It's good in it. I'll tell you what, man, 1:16:08.040 --> 1:16:11.120 Let me do it. Atlantic was the only company that 1:16:11.120 --> 1:16:13.320 would allow us to do it. However, in the book, 1:16:13.360 --> 1:16:17.759 you testify ad infinite him about the greatness and power 1:16:17.800 --> 1:16:21.160 of the reef Martin. Well he asked the Beatles about 1:16:21.160 --> 1:16:26.799 George Martin. You know again, you know there's a definite 1:16:27.360 --> 1:16:30.240 divine nature to our world, whether we like it or not. 1:16:30.400 --> 1:16:34.760 You know, and when things fall into your place and 1:16:34.840 --> 1:16:40.200 you go like, okay, this guy is really good. I 1:16:40.240 --> 1:16:42.400 mean when when when I knew who Tom Doubt was 1:16:42.439 --> 1:16:44.160 when he was in the Rule with us, because you know, 1:16:44.200 --> 1:16:46.160 I saw his name on all the albums and all 1:16:46.200 --> 1:16:48.000 the singles that I bought my whole life. You know, 1:16:48.120 --> 1:16:51.360 the Drifters, the Coasters, you know, the Ravens, the you know, 1:16:51.800 --> 1:16:54.599 Clim mcpe town down town, down town down I knew him, 1:16:54.640 --> 1:16:57.280 but our reef Martin I didn't know. But it's kind 1:16:57.280 --> 1:17:00.439 of like, you know, when you have when you have like, 1:17:00.520 --> 1:17:04.160 for example, say animals, you know, like say, for example, horses, 1:17:04.200 --> 1:17:05.800 you know, and they put them all together and then 1:17:05.800 --> 1:17:07.800 all of a sudden, this one dude gets this horse 1:17:07.800 --> 1:17:10.160 gets up over Then you go like, oh my god, 1:17:10.200 --> 1:17:12.840 that's a hell of a horse over there. Bro. This 1:17:12.880 --> 1:17:15.920 guy was just I'm sorry. You know, I cried like 1:17:15.960 --> 1:17:21.200 a baby when he passed. He was something. And you're 1:17:21.200 --> 1:17:23.880 working with him, you know, so what can you say? 1:17:24.000 --> 1:17:25.960 You know, I got an idea, Oh how about this? 1:17:26.080 --> 1:17:28.200 Oh I gotta what do you think about this? So 1:17:28.520 --> 1:17:30.840 I'm saying, did I die and did I die and 1:17:30.840 --> 1:17:33.080 go to heaven? I don't know? This is this is 1:17:33.080 --> 1:17:36.799 phenomenal working with this guy, just phenomenal you're saying, although 1:17:36.840 --> 1:17:40.320 with the reef giving you insight that you actually produced 1:17:40.360 --> 1:17:43.880 all these rascals. Oh we did, Oh absolutely. I mean 1:17:43.920 --> 1:17:46.519 I I don't want to take credit all by myself, 1:17:46.560 --> 1:17:48.880 but you know, I didn't go home until two or 1:17:48.880 --> 1:17:50.760 three in the morning, you know, while these guys were out, 1:17:50.920 --> 1:17:53.120 you know, no, no, I was there. I could tell 1:17:53.160 --> 1:17:57.360 you every dial, everything that they touched. Oh, you know, 1:17:57.400 --> 1:17:59.639 it's too much. I don't want that many highs on it. Yeah, 1:17:59.680 --> 1:18:02.760 I was there. I was interested for the first day. 1:18:02.800 --> 1:18:04.720 So we produced our own stuff. I mean I say 1:18:04.720 --> 1:18:07.040 we because that's what the contracts said, but I mean 1:18:07.080 --> 1:18:10.160 I was there every step of the way, enjoyed every 1:18:10.200 --> 1:18:13.559 moment of it. You know, in those days, we had 1:18:13.880 --> 1:18:18.519 the unfortunate transition between mono and stereo. You know, so 1:18:18.560 --> 1:18:20.920 if anybody knows what it takes to mix a record, 1:18:21.080 --> 1:18:23.120 you know, in those days we only had eight tracks, 1:18:23.160 --> 1:18:26.720 but still it's it's it's always tedious. We had to 1:18:26.720 --> 1:18:28.400 do it twice for each song. We had to do 1:18:28.439 --> 1:18:32.280 a mono and a stereo version. So yeah, I was 1:18:32.320 --> 1:18:34.439 there the whole time, and and and and you know, 1:18:34.600 --> 1:18:38.000 I don't think there's a seriously a note that went 1:18:38.040 --> 1:18:40.240 on any of our records that I wasn't totally aware of. 1:18:40.520 --> 1:18:44.479 So the first album doesn't have any originals at the time, 1:18:44.600 --> 1:18:47.120 did you have any originals? How do you decide on 1:18:47.200 --> 1:18:49.680 the songs that were included in the first round? Well, 1:18:49.720 --> 1:18:52.920 that was pretty much our set because in those days, 1:18:52.960 --> 1:18:57.240 the club clubs demanded covers. They didn't want to hear 1:18:57.280 --> 1:19:01.559 any of your you know, your your personal fieldings or thoughts. 1:19:01.560 --> 1:19:03.960 You know. They wanted you know, these people are coming 1:19:04.000 --> 1:19:07.400 in here. I want them to dance. I want them 1:19:07.400 --> 1:19:10.360 to drink. They're not gonna do that if they're listening 1:19:10.400 --> 1:19:12.439 to your music. I want them to rock and roll. 1:19:12.880 --> 1:19:16.840 You know, they the aesthetic. That's not what we're hiring, 1:19:16.880 --> 1:19:20.080 you know what I mean. So, uh, they demanded covers. 1:19:21.200 --> 1:19:24.200 So what I had to do basically is is we 1:19:24.240 --> 1:19:27.519 had a record store up in Nurshelle, New York. And 1:19:27.520 --> 1:19:29.160 you know, in those days, you could go in, put 1:19:29.240 --> 1:19:31.840 on a set of headphones, put the needle down on 1:19:31.880 --> 1:19:34.920 the turntable, and stay as long as you wanted, you know. 1:19:36.040 --> 1:19:38.519 And I heard these songs, and then there was a 1:19:38.520 --> 1:19:41.120 couple of radio stations in Euyork w w l R, 1:19:41.320 --> 1:19:44.680 and you know, uh, Jocko was on and you know 1:19:44.920 --> 1:19:47.800 R and B stations, and they play this songs. You know, 1:19:48.120 --> 1:19:50.839 they played this song, they played this song Mustang Sally, 1:19:51.280 --> 1:19:55.160 they played this song Temptations about to Get Me. Nobody 1:19:55.200 --> 1:19:57.960 ever heard those songs. They played this song good Loving 1:19:58.560 --> 1:20:01.080 unless you were in that neighborhood. Are we go to 1:20:01.120 --> 1:20:05.880 the record store, buy it and tell the proprietor this 1:20:05.960 --> 1:20:08.599 is a cover man. And I mean, I didn't make 1:20:08.600 --> 1:20:11.840 this up. See, that became our set. That's how we 1:20:11.880 --> 1:20:16.600 did our set. And and and it's interesting because the 1:20:16.600 --> 1:20:19.920 the accent that I bring to the table when we 1:20:19.960 --> 1:20:23.639 speak to the microphone, nobody thinks that come from Nashville, Tennessee. 1:20:23.640 --> 1:20:27.559 They know I'm not from here. You know why, Well, 1:20:27.720 --> 1:20:31.040 because whatever I do covered it that way. Well, when 1:20:31.080 --> 1:20:32.920 we did songs that we thought we were doing the 1:20:32.960 --> 1:20:35.759 English version, it was not. It was the sole version, 1:20:36.040 --> 1:20:37.880 you know, It's just the way it came out. You know. 1:20:38.960 --> 1:20:42.080 It just was very interesting. How you know, we we 1:20:42.080 --> 1:20:44.479 we we we made on music. And how did you 1:20:44.520 --> 1:20:46.400 find they ain't can eat it out my heart anymore? 1:20:46.600 --> 1:20:48.760 Well that was a different story now Atlantic. You know, 1:20:48.800 --> 1:20:51.720 I knew we didn't really we hadn't really shown them 1:20:51.720 --> 1:20:55.000 any songs that were written, because they signed us based 1:20:55.000 --> 1:20:58.800 on the nightclub back. They liked what they heard, and 1:20:58.960 --> 1:21:01.479 uh so when we were to the label, they they 1:21:01.520 --> 1:21:04.559 they went the normal route, which as you know from 1:21:04.560 --> 1:21:07.439 those days, was to go to publishers and uh you 1:21:07.479 --> 1:21:10.960 know they they Beatles at Dylan and you know, Spoonful 1:21:11.080 --> 1:21:13.559 Birds and those people, even Birds, they went, they went 1:21:13.720 --> 1:21:16.800 got songs from other people that hadn't really evolved yet 1:21:16.800 --> 1:21:18.879 where you were, you know, like on your own writing. 1:21:19.320 --> 1:21:22.639 You know, that's one of the many, many, many gifts 1:21:22.680 --> 1:21:25.040 that the Beatles and people like Dylan gave us that 1:21:25.120 --> 1:21:27.919 you know, like now now you could you know, express yourselves. 1:21:27.920 --> 1:21:30.719 Prior to that, they not too many people were interested 1:21:30.760 --> 1:21:32.840 in what you had to write at all, so there 1:21:32.880 --> 1:21:35.200 was really no reason to do it except for your 1:21:35.240 --> 1:21:38.639 creative you know kind of juices. So yeah, with those 1:21:38.640 --> 1:21:41.240 songs are part of our set. Did you cut Good 1:21:41.320 --> 1:21:44.680 Loving and say this is a hit or were you 1:21:44.800 --> 1:21:47.479 surprised when all of a sudden became a monster. While 1:21:47.520 --> 1:21:49.720 we were surprised when we came a monster, but we 1:21:49.720 --> 1:21:52.559 weren't surprised when it came a hit. You know. The difference, 1:21:52.880 --> 1:21:56.839 Uh a lot of times between then and now. Is that? Uh, 1:21:56.960 --> 1:21:58.680 you have an audience like in other words, if I 1:21:58.720 --> 1:22:00.760 play a song and I've got a hundred people, a 1:22:00.840 --> 1:22:04.160 hundred and fifty people, it's a record this session here, like, 1:22:04.360 --> 1:22:07.200 what do you think? Well, if they go you know, 1:22:07.600 --> 1:22:11.040 from the first time we played that song, people got 1:22:11.080 --> 1:22:14.360 up and danced, people got up and drank, people got happy, 1:22:15.680 --> 1:22:18.720 and you know to this day, so you know, this 1:22:18.840 --> 1:22:21.799 has got legs. This this could happen, you know, because 1:22:22.080 --> 1:22:25.040 you see what you know, You've got that instant reaction. 1:22:25.200 --> 1:22:27.479 It's like a comedian when he tells a joke. Don't 1:22:27.560 --> 1:22:31.200 use this in the show. You know. Okay, the record 1:22:31.280 --> 1:22:34.760 is a monster. You're all over the media. You have 1:22:34.840 --> 1:22:37.719 to make a second record. The second record is different 1:22:37.840 --> 1:22:41.760 because their originals, and the originals are better than the 1:22:41.800 --> 1:22:45.240 covers and there they How do you end up writing 1:22:45.280 --> 1:22:47.439 songs all of a sudden? Well, you know, and it's 1:22:47.479 --> 1:22:49.000 not all of a sudden. It's just that you know 1:22:49.080 --> 1:22:51.680 somebody up there likes me, you understand, so you know 1:22:51.760 --> 1:22:54.479 basically you know it when you when you when you 1:22:54.560 --> 1:22:57.559 open a door, you know, a smart thing to do 1:22:57.600 --> 1:23:00.759 is to go in and realize what where came from 1:23:00.840 --> 1:23:03.080 you know, so when that door opened up, you know, 1:23:03.120 --> 1:23:05.680 and we're a bunch of young, young, young guys. You 1:23:05.720 --> 1:23:09.400 know that I just had a multimillion whatever you want 1:23:09.400 --> 1:23:11.200 to call itself. He said, you know what, we're going 1:23:11.240 --> 1:23:13.000 to kind of tell you what we want to do now. 1:23:13.200 --> 1:23:16.639 This is what we want to do, big shots. Okay, 1:23:16.800 --> 1:23:20.760 let's be specific. I've been lonely too. Low is a 1:23:20.800 --> 1:23:24.240 monster that I've gotten into more in the twenty one 1:23:24.400 --> 1:23:26.559 century than the twentieth century. There's a lot of stuff 1:23:26.560 --> 1:23:29.320 from that era that's dated. Of course, this is not dated. 1:23:29.439 --> 1:23:32.280 How did you write such a good song so early 1:23:32.360 --> 1:23:35.519 in your writing career? Well, you know, uh, I mean 1:23:35.560 --> 1:23:38.720 there's reasons, you know behind the songs. You know, there's 1:23:38.760 --> 1:23:41.080 there's always reasons which I find, like, you know, the 1:23:41.080 --> 1:23:43.080 the audience is out there really like to hear. But 1:23:43.320 --> 1:23:48.439 you know, we we have in that case, amuse. You know, 1:23:48.640 --> 1:23:52.120 there was this young lady came into my life and uh, 1:23:52.160 --> 1:23:55.320 you know, uh, I wrote all those songs about that 1:23:55.360 --> 1:23:58.000 relationship until we got to how can I be sure 1:23:58.000 --> 1:24:02.560 where I wasn't sure that I in the right move. Uh. 1:24:02.720 --> 1:24:06.679 You're inspired by by people, by events, you know, and 1:24:06.680 --> 1:24:11.680 and and so you know how you know, you know, 1:24:11.800 --> 1:24:13.760 I don't even know what to say except for you know, 1:24:14.920 --> 1:24:17.360 thank you. Okay, let's even go to the next record 1:24:17.400 --> 1:24:21.320 where you really, you know, become a monster. So are 1:24:21.400 --> 1:24:25.599 you saying that all these songs like a girl like you? 1:24:26.439 --> 1:24:29.240 And how can I be sure? And you Better Run 1:24:29.920 --> 1:24:32.559 and Grooving are all about this woman? No, your Better 1:24:32.600 --> 1:24:38.000 Run was about a different woman who drove me crazy. 1:24:38.040 --> 1:24:41.200 This was all yes, yes, yes, yes, positive, but you 1:24:41.240 --> 1:24:43.920 know what I say on my show, but sometimes things 1:24:43.920 --> 1:24:46.840 are not so beautiful, and that's your Better Run. And 1:24:46.880 --> 1:24:50.320 Pat Benattar of course, had the same same same. How 1:24:50.320 --> 1:24:52.840 did you become aware of that Pat Bennettar version when 1:24:53.080 --> 1:24:55.200 you first heard it? Or did they reach out before? 1:24:55.520 --> 1:24:57.760 I think they reach out before, because you know there 1:24:57.800 --> 1:25:00.439 there is a publishing license and all that and stuff 1:25:00.479 --> 1:25:01.960 that they have to do is so they content. I 1:25:02.200 --> 1:25:04.880 contacted our attorneys and people said and I said, yeah, man, 1:25:04.920 --> 1:25:07.120 oh wow, she's good. Let's let's do it. She is 1:25:07.200 --> 1:25:10.120 really good. She's very good, and she did a great 1:25:10.160 --> 1:25:13.240 job of her husband. They really did a good job. Absolutely. 1:25:13.520 --> 1:25:16.639 It was actually bigger than your version terms of succe. Well, 1:25:16.680 --> 1:25:21.040 what else is new? What else is new tell us 1:25:21.080 --> 1:25:23.559 more about grooving well grooving, you know, I mean, you 1:25:23.560 --> 1:25:26.400 know this is this is this is a thing of 1:25:26.600 --> 1:25:28.720 perfect example of what I was alluding to in the 1:25:28.760 --> 1:25:31.439 beginning about the different answers. You know, over the years, 1:25:31.479 --> 1:25:36.840 you you you kind of create your story because you know, uh, 1:25:36.880 --> 1:25:39.040 I mean, Johnson Bash has got some great stories. You know, 1:25:39.080 --> 1:25:42.679 I I can I divest for one one one minute 1:25:42.680 --> 1:25:45.559 with John. John goes on stage and says, when I 1:25:45.680 --> 1:25:48.679 was a boy, you know, my parents used to send 1:25:48.680 --> 1:25:53.400 me to camp and uh I got involved with these 1:25:53.439 --> 1:25:57.479 twins and he picks up his gutarigos, did you ever 1:25:57.640 --> 1:26:02.720 have to make up your mind? You know? Now did 1:26:02.720 --> 1:26:08.720 that really happen? I guess? So? New York is a 1:26:08.760 --> 1:26:13.439 bastion of Latin music, you know, Uh, Latin music was 1:26:13.479 --> 1:26:15.920 present when I was at the Royally Hotel that they 1:26:16.000 --> 1:26:18.599 used to come up and apply a sextet, all these 1:26:18.680 --> 1:26:22.120 Latin bands and that's kind of I heard it, man. 1:26:22.200 --> 1:26:24.920 And and not only that, but they were good bands, 1:26:25.520 --> 1:26:27.719 you know, I mean we we would go to a show, 1:26:27.800 --> 1:26:30.000 you know, basically after that and they would be a 1:26:30.000 --> 1:26:33.240 trio there or quartet. When you go to a Latin show, 1:26:33.680 --> 1:26:38.360 it's a freaking orchestra, man, and these guys are popping. Well. 1:26:38.560 --> 1:26:40.679 I had a lot of Latin friends in the community 1:26:40.680 --> 1:26:42.720 and and and you know, I just said, wow, you know, 1:26:42.800 --> 1:26:46.439 let's how about we try something like this, you know, 1:26:46.680 --> 1:26:48.840 how about we try something like this? And then there's 1:26:48.840 --> 1:26:51.360 a story as far as the lyric and that content, 1:26:51.439 --> 1:26:53.840 which you know, this is evolved over the years. I 1:26:53.880 --> 1:26:56.160 don't know that this is what actually happened, but I 1:26:56.240 --> 1:26:59.519 was working on Friday and Saturday nights. The only time 1:26:59.560 --> 1:27:03.000 I could be with my loved one was Sunday afternoon, 1:27:03.680 --> 1:27:05.519 you know, I mean, there was no Friday and Saturday. 1:27:05.520 --> 1:27:07.679 And I've turned that into a whole stick on stage. 1:27:07.680 --> 1:27:10.240 You know, I say, you know how many women like that? 1:27:10.280 --> 1:27:12.439 And none, you know, blah blah blah blah. But anyway, 1:27:13.040 --> 1:27:15.960 it was an inspiration basically because that's the only time 1:27:16.000 --> 1:27:19.200 we had off, so to speak, was Sunday afternoon. You know, 1:27:19.320 --> 1:27:21.679 people go to the park and bring the conga's out 1:27:21.680 --> 1:27:24.200 and all that, you know, and that's grooving. Okay. I 1:27:24.320 --> 1:27:26.760 gotta ask, how did it end with that girl and 1:27:26.760 --> 1:27:29.840 where is she today? Well, unfortunately, you know, the the 1:27:30.240 --> 1:27:31.600 end of the story is never as good as the 1:27:31.640 --> 1:27:34.000 beginning in the middle right now, she married a friend 1:27:34.040 --> 1:27:36.000 of mine, and and that we did. We didn't marry, 1:27:36.040 --> 1:27:37.559 as I say, I thought I thought I had a 1:27:38.040 --> 1:27:43.880 I thought I was just enamored, you know. And and 1:27:43.880 --> 1:27:46.320 and that's that's why she was there, you know. And 1:27:46.360 --> 1:27:49.560 I really believe that there's a you know, uh, a 1:27:49.680 --> 1:27:54.040 famous musical erato that you know, I learned the word 1:27:54.080 --> 1:27:58.280 from my crossword puzzle days and adam use simple as that. 1:27:58.360 --> 1:28:00.800 This this was an inspiration, you know. And and Eddie, 1:28:01.080 --> 1:28:02.840 you know, and he was there. I mean Eddie, you know, 1:28:02.880 --> 1:28:04.600 he knew what I was talking about, and you know 1:28:04.640 --> 1:28:06.240 what we were talking about, and he did a great 1:28:06.320 --> 1:28:09.320 job of you know, putting that story together. You know, 1:28:10.520 --> 1:28:13.040 it was better that he, you know, wrote those things 1:28:13.040 --> 1:28:14.880 with me, because you know, I get a little bit 1:28:14.920 --> 1:28:16.840 too serious sometimes, you know what I'm saying. And he 1:28:17.120 --> 1:28:19.120 was kind of like a flowery you know, you know, 1:28:19.439 --> 1:28:22.000 paint this lovely picture on here. Well, would you sit 1:28:22.080 --> 1:28:24.200 down like they do in Nashville and say, we're making 1:28:24.200 --> 1:28:26.840 an album, we need songs. How did you actually write 1:28:26.840 --> 1:28:30.200 the song? No, that didn't happen, you know, that didn't happen. 1:28:30.960 --> 1:28:33.400 You know, as I say, you know, I I really 1:28:33.479 --> 1:28:37.680 my my work ethic was a lot different from Eddie's. 1:28:37.960 --> 1:28:40.439 So I would bring the song, you know, bring the 1:28:40.520 --> 1:28:43.719 songbury the title, and bring the you know, the music, 1:28:43.800 --> 1:28:46.280 the melody. You know. Basically, this is what this story 1:28:46.320 --> 1:28:48.040 is about. Can can can you help me out? Can 1:28:48.120 --> 1:28:49.840 you right over here? You know? And right and then 1:28:49.880 --> 1:28:53.559 you know, literally uh uh we get it together, you know, 1:28:53.600 --> 1:28:56.000 but we never we never really wrote together like that, 1:28:56.040 --> 1:28:58.720 you know, like the togetherness thing in the beginning when 1:28:58.720 --> 1:29:01.120 we were in the studio. Uh and and it was 1:29:01.200 --> 1:29:03.040 kind of like a new world, you know. We we 1:29:03.040 --> 1:29:05.720 we tried to basically collaborate and to you know, have 1:29:05.800 --> 1:29:08.719 everybody's input put in, you know, but it didn't work 1:29:08.800 --> 1:29:12.120 like that because you know, that's one of the difficult 1:29:12.120 --> 1:29:15.799 things about production inside of a group. You know, somebody 1:29:15.840 --> 1:29:17.960 has to make a decision to say the word no, 1:29:18.920 --> 1:29:21.800 you know, and and and and and that's tough when 1:29:21.800 --> 1:29:25.680 it's a so called equal member of the royalty situation, 1:29:25.760 --> 1:29:28.200 because no, I don't want to use that song. No, 1:29:28.880 --> 1:29:31.240 I don't think you should play it like that. Someone 1:29:31.320 --> 1:29:35.640 has to be that that that director, you know, and basically, 1:29:35.760 --> 1:29:38.960 you know, a reef personality was not like you know, 1:29:39.000 --> 1:29:41.800 he was a gentle guy, gentleman, you know, so you 1:29:41.840 --> 1:29:44.600 know it would come to me and some cases me 1:29:44.680 --> 1:29:50.040 and him, but I'd always blame it on him. I 1:29:50.120 --> 1:29:52.680 can't use that. I can't do that. But that's that's 1:29:52.680 --> 1:29:54.439 how it was. I mean, I would bring the seed 1:29:54.479 --> 1:29:58.439 in and you know, uh, he unfortunately did did his work. 1:29:58.479 --> 1:30:00.400 Ethic was was not the same. You know, he didn't 1:30:00.400 --> 1:30:03.040 he didn't really feel like you know, we had an 1:30:03.080 --> 1:30:09.519 instance one time where prior to Jesus Christ Superstar, uh, 1:30:09.680 --> 1:30:12.600 a fellow from the from the Broadway world said, you 1:30:12.640 --> 1:30:14.920 know what, we need a rock musical. Would you guys 1:30:14.960 --> 1:30:17.439 be interested in writing a rock musical? And I said, 1:30:17.439 --> 1:30:20.400 oh my god, are you kidding me? We'll be the first, 1:30:20.400 --> 1:30:23.800 whether we flop or not, the first, the first, you 1:30:23.840 --> 1:30:27.920 always remember the first. And you know, again I would 1:30:27.920 --> 1:30:30.120 get myself in trouble. Edie said, why we don't work 1:30:30.120 --> 1:30:33.679 hard enough? You're gonna you want to work harder. I said, don't, don't, don't, don't. 1:30:33.680 --> 1:30:38.920 Don't you understand you know the encyclopedias, they're gonna the first. 1:30:38.920 --> 1:30:41.800 It doesn't matter. See, so it was a different thing. 1:30:49.040 --> 1:30:51.839 Now in the book you say that after that album, 1:30:51.960 --> 1:30:55.479 rove an album, you end up in California. You go 1:30:55.600 --> 1:30:59.240 to Mexico, they start making a record without you. They 1:30:59.240 --> 1:31:01.840 put out the Greed Sid's album time Piece. Tell me 1:31:01.880 --> 1:31:05.720 what was really happening there? Yeah, what was really happening? Well, 1:31:06.000 --> 1:31:10.840 we were in San Diego and I had a fever. 1:31:10.960 --> 1:31:12.920 I wasn't feeling well. I had something going on in 1:31:12.960 --> 1:31:17.559 my body that shouldn't happened. And so um, my road 1:31:17.600 --> 1:31:19.800 manager and myself we decided, come on, let's take some 1:31:19.880 --> 1:31:22.800 time off. You know, I don't feel good, you know. 1:31:23.360 --> 1:31:27.040 And then right around that same period of time, I realized, 1:31:27.439 --> 1:31:30.120 You realize that I'm supporting a war effort here with 1:31:30.200 --> 1:31:35.639 my taxes. The hell with this, Let's get out of here. Yeah. 1:31:35.720 --> 1:31:39.800 I went to Mexico. We went to Acapulco. In those days, 1:31:39.800 --> 1:31:41.519 it was safe to go to Acapulco. You know, you 1:31:41.560 --> 1:31:43.479 could go in and go out and see what tonejo 1:31:44.560 --> 1:31:47.920 And uh, really, what happened up north? In the in 1:31:47.760 --> 1:31:51.599 the in the in the is that Sid? He made 1:31:51.600 --> 1:31:54.559 a mistake? You know. Sid goes, oh my god, what 1:31:54.600 --> 1:31:58.880 are we gonna do without Felix? So the other guy 1:31:58.920 --> 1:32:02.639 said her, up, what do you think we are chopped liver. 1:32:02.720 --> 1:32:07.719 I mean, what do you think, you know? And they revolted, see, 1:32:08.080 --> 1:32:11.000 and they called up a ref. Atlantic said, we're going 1:32:11.000 --> 1:32:18.120 in without him. So anyway, unfortunately, nothing happened in the student. 1:32:18.880 --> 1:32:22.519 So Atlantic says, how about we doing greatest hits? Sounds 1:32:22.560 --> 1:32:28.040 like a good idea. I was coming back, I was 1:32:28.080 --> 1:32:30.880 doing right, you know. I was just you know, you know, 1:32:31.040 --> 1:32:33.840 just kind of like feeling my oats a little bit, 1:32:33.840 --> 1:32:36.240 that's all. How long were you in Mexico? I don't 1:32:36.240 --> 1:32:39.439 even know, three, not that long, you know, a couple 1:32:39.439 --> 1:32:41.559 of months probably, you know, we just you know, we 1:32:41.640 --> 1:32:43.759 just did we just kind of, you know, I remember 1:32:43.800 --> 1:32:45.680 it vividly. I mean, I had so much fun, you know, 1:32:45.760 --> 1:32:48.760 because we were trying to attempting Spanish. You know. So 1:32:48.760 --> 1:32:50.519 so I was little, I was not that healthy. It 1:32:50.600 --> 1:32:51.960 was a little well, and we go to the beach 1:32:51.960 --> 1:32:54.120 and I'd say to my road guy Andy, I said, 1:32:54.320 --> 1:32:56.040 so what happened down He says, well, I don't know. 1:32:56.120 --> 1:32:57.840 I think I think I got a connection, but I'm 1:32:57.880 --> 1:32:59.760 not sure whether we're buying it from them or they're 1:32:59.760 --> 1:33:04.719 buying there from us. Okay, you mentioned earlier and also 1:33:04.760 --> 1:33:07.080 in the book there's a lot about the Swami. Yeah, 1:33:07.200 --> 1:33:09.800 expian upon that because most people don't know that well, 1:33:09.840 --> 1:33:12.559 you know, Uh, the the interesting thing in those days 1:33:12.920 --> 1:33:15.320 again we go back to the fact that the Beatles 1:33:15.360 --> 1:33:20.920 were this light that kept turning people onto different things. 1:33:21.240 --> 1:33:23.479 One of the things that we're turning us onto was 1:33:23.479 --> 1:33:26.439 was the yoga was the spiritual world. You know, I 1:33:26.479 --> 1:33:28.840 really didn't need to be turned onto the spiritual world 1:33:28.880 --> 1:33:31.320 because I came from a very spiritual family. I mean, 1:33:31.400 --> 1:33:33.439 my mom, you know, the rest our soul was was 1:33:33.720 --> 1:33:36.240 very very religious human being, and so it was always 1:33:36.240 --> 1:33:39.760 around us. Someone gave me a book, Uh, it was 1:33:39.840 --> 1:33:46.559 called Autobiography of a Yoga Yogi by this Paramahansa Yoganda 1:33:47.000 --> 1:33:49.000 and and and and when I read the book. When 1:33:49.000 --> 1:33:51.680 I started reading the book, it's the same thing as 1:33:51.680 --> 1:33:54.000 when I heard Alan Freed, It's the same things when 1:33:54.000 --> 1:33:58.000 I heard the organ player. I just got immersed in 1:33:58.080 --> 1:34:03.320 this world that in in those days and and this 1:34:03.400 --> 1:34:04.960 is not that long ago. I mean in terms, it 1:34:05.000 --> 1:34:07.280 was in the in the twentieth century, in in in 1:34:07.280 --> 1:34:11.599 India that a monk would go through in their lives. 1:34:11.640 --> 1:34:13.720 Their lives are totally different from ours. I mean, you know, 1:34:14.200 --> 1:34:17.240 they have this thing called sanyas, which is a you know, 1:34:17.400 --> 1:34:20.640 you decide or you're decided by your cast or I 1:34:20.640 --> 1:34:22.680 don't know. In some cases, I'm sure it's not just 1:34:22.840 --> 1:34:25.639 cast that you should be a monkey, should be a priest. 1:34:25.760 --> 1:34:29.040 So what they do is they they give up everything. 1:34:29.120 --> 1:34:31.559 They give up their names, they give up their wealth, 1:34:31.600 --> 1:34:33.639 they give up anything that they may have. They're even 1:34:33.680 --> 1:34:36.400 not supposed to have a wife or anything like that. 1:34:36.439 --> 1:34:39.599 In the beginning, they're supposed to put out a yellow 1:34:39.680 --> 1:34:42.840 or orange robe and go out into the you know 1:34:43.640 --> 1:34:49.639 world with a bowl. And in those days, the the 1:34:49.680 --> 1:34:52.360 you know, the the people would see them, you know, 1:34:53.000 --> 1:34:54.880 person in a robe. They divide him in the house 1:34:55.840 --> 1:34:58.599 and they give him food, they give them rest, they 1:34:58.640 --> 1:35:01.519 give him and what what they would ask in return. 1:35:01.880 --> 1:35:04.080 It's called SATs on readings. At the end of the meal, 1:35:04.560 --> 1:35:07.360 I want to hear your wisdom. So you know, when 1:35:07.360 --> 1:35:10.040 somebody was you know, chibe, because I had nothing to say. 1:35:10.120 --> 1:35:13.839 But if somebody was real, you know, you're very fortunate 1:35:13.840 --> 1:35:15.760 because you brought a holy man into your house, and 1:35:15.800 --> 1:35:17.439 you know there's a blessing that goes with that, and 1:35:17.479 --> 1:35:19.559 there's certainly a lot of wisdom that goes, So I'm 1:35:19.600 --> 1:35:23.200 reading about this well and I I said, wow, look whoa hello, 1:35:23.880 --> 1:35:27.200 you know. And at the end of the book there's 1:35:27.240 --> 1:35:30.839 a sentence that says, if you want a teacher Guru, 1:35:32.160 --> 1:35:35.680 ask and you shall receive. And this is where the 1:35:35.720 --> 1:35:38.320 story gets really interested in again. This is in the book. 1:35:39.520 --> 1:35:42.200 This gentleman by the name is Steve Paul had this 1:35:42.240 --> 1:35:45.240 place in New York called the Scene. And the Scene 1:35:45.320 --> 1:35:48.920 was a place where um a lot of people when 1:35:49.000 --> 1:35:52.400 Jimmie Hendrix went there, and Tiny Tim was a major 1:35:52.479 --> 1:35:55.519 staple there, and jose Feliciano was. It was a really 1:35:55.560 --> 1:35:58.960 cool place, but it was small, and every once in 1:35:59.000 --> 1:36:02.160 a while Steve would, you know, run into some financial difficulties. 1:36:02.200 --> 1:36:04.840 He ended up managing the Winter's brothers, John and Edgar, 1:36:05.200 --> 1:36:08.280 you know, and uh he would call us up and say, 1:36:08.280 --> 1:36:10.599 come on, you guys, come down and do a free 1:36:10.600 --> 1:36:13.000 bon me man I need to you know. And of course, 1:36:13.040 --> 1:36:17.000 you know, Velvet Underground used to play there, you know. Uh, 1:36:17.240 --> 1:36:22.160 so he's doing this television show, you know, uh, pilot 1:36:22.360 --> 1:36:24.720 for w N E W. And he said, would you 1:36:24.720 --> 1:36:26.519 guys come down and you know, be part of the show. 1:36:26.600 --> 1:36:29.040 He called up, said, you know and of course, why not. 1:36:30.640 --> 1:36:34.960 I walk in the door, you know, and I got 1:36:34.960 --> 1:36:39.240 my entourage with me, big stars, whatever, and I see 1:36:39.240 --> 1:36:44.160 a guru sitting on the floor with a circle around him. 1:36:44.320 --> 1:36:49.679 I said, okay, sure that started it. I just said 1:36:49.720 --> 1:36:52.280 to my roadmance and said hold this, I will be 1:36:52.400 --> 1:36:55.960 right back. And I got online to meet him, and 1:36:56.120 --> 1:36:59.479 I met him, you know, and and it was a major, major, 1:36:59.560 --> 1:37:01.880 major experience, you know. And I have this again in 1:37:01.920 --> 1:37:03.960 the book because this is this is what I wanted 1:37:03.960 --> 1:37:06.479 to write about instead of the litigation and all that stuff. 1:37:06.520 --> 1:37:09.280 You know. So how extensive did you get into it 1:37:09.320 --> 1:37:11.960 and what did you ultimately learn from the Guru? Well, 1:37:12.000 --> 1:37:13.680 you know, I don't get in too many things. Like 1:37:13.680 --> 1:37:15.360 when I see a pool, I don't I don't just 1:37:15.400 --> 1:37:17.479 put my foot in it. I'm one of these guys. 1:37:17.560 --> 1:37:19.679 I dive right in, you know what I mean. I'm there. 1:37:20.040 --> 1:37:22.640 I got very involved. I spent a good amount of 1:37:22.680 --> 1:37:26.360 my life. You know. The the interesting part is why 1:37:26.479 --> 1:37:29.080 you go there in the beginning, you know, UM. I 1:37:29.080 --> 1:37:33.920 had a number of reasons that UM brought me to him, 1:37:34.040 --> 1:37:36.320 you know. Uh be first of all, you know, I 1:37:36.360 --> 1:37:39.479 lost my mom, you know, when when I was thirteen 1:37:40.280 --> 1:37:43.320 I couldn't really figure that out, you know. And and 1:37:43.400 --> 1:37:46.360 you know, you go to the rabbi, go to the priest, 1:37:46.479 --> 1:37:49.639 you know something. Can anybody help me out of here? Man? 1:37:49.840 --> 1:37:52.439 You know, I need a little help. I needed somebody 1:37:52.479 --> 1:37:57.320 to how come this happened to a very spiritual lady. 1:37:57.479 --> 1:38:00.679 And I say as a joke, but my dad he 1:38:00.840 --> 1:38:02.640 went to church when it was reigning because it was 1:38:02.720 --> 1:38:07.960 what was dry inside, you know. So but I couldn't 1:38:07.960 --> 1:38:10.439 compute that, you know that. So I needed I needed 1:38:10.520 --> 1:38:14.280 some spiritual guidance, you know, some Can you tell me 1:38:14.320 --> 1:38:17.160 what this is all about? Man? Because I'm I'm you know, 1:38:18.200 --> 1:38:20.200 and and then you know you you you also you've 1:38:20.200 --> 1:38:22.479 got to be careful, you know, with with with with 1:38:22.560 --> 1:38:24.960 the drugs that are out there. You know, you could 1:38:24.960 --> 1:38:30.400 you could really lose your your brain, you know, and 1:38:30.400 --> 1:38:32.679 and and and all this is all around us of course, 1:38:32.760 --> 1:38:35.160 because I remember one time we went to California, we 1:38:35.200 --> 1:38:38.960 met the Smothers brothers. You know, we almost didn't return alive. 1:38:39.320 --> 1:38:41.800 You know, I mean these guys out in California that 1:38:41.800 --> 1:38:45.960 that's a whole different world of you know, funning games, 1:38:46.000 --> 1:38:47.760 you know, going out there, you know, and and and 1:38:48.040 --> 1:38:50.360 average white band. The drummer didn't even get back he 1:38:50.400 --> 1:38:53.760 did the first trip out there. He overdoes so I 1:38:53.800 --> 1:38:57.680 need I I said, no, I I wasn't brought up 1:38:57.720 --> 1:38:59.280 by this, you know what I mean? And then there's 1:38:59.320 --> 1:39:01.360 a third thing, you know, basically, which is you know 1:39:01.400 --> 1:39:03.920 again from my family. You know families, you know, they 1:39:04.000 --> 1:39:05.960 used to really influence their kids. You know what I mean. 1:39:06.000 --> 1:39:07.880 They used to. Well they still do, but I mean 1:39:07.920 --> 1:39:12.040 in a positive way. My dad said, just I'll tell 1:39:12.040 --> 1:39:13.400 you why you want to be a musician. I'll tell 1:39:13.439 --> 1:39:15.920 you what. But you see in front of my office here, 1:39:15.960 --> 1:39:19.360 I got that sign I'm a doctor or a dentist 1:39:19.439 --> 1:39:22.679 until I resigned. You better keep having hit records, dude, 1:39:23.600 --> 1:39:28.080 because as soon as you stop, you gone, you out 1:39:28.080 --> 1:39:30.519 of here? And boy, was that right? You don't make 1:39:30.560 --> 1:39:33.519 a couple of hit record for a record company? Did 1:39:33.560 --> 1:39:36.519 I did? I do? I know? You? You You know, weren't 1:39:36.520 --> 1:39:38.840 you that? Uh? And you know when that comes and 1:39:39.080 --> 1:39:41.200 you said, like, oh my god, I mean this is right, man. 1:39:41.200 --> 1:39:44.160 You know what? You gotta keep doing this, don't you? Oh? Yeah, 1:39:44.200 --> 1:39:46.160 you know you don't think about that when you're you know, 1:39:46.640 --> 1:39:48.760 when you first meet her, you know what I mean? 1:39:50.120 --> 1:39:51.880 First meet her, you say like, wow, this is gonna 1:39:51.920 --> 1:39:54.559 be and then you said like wait a minute. Anyway, 1:39:54.640 --> 1:39:57.040 it was it was again, this is all in the book. 1:39:57.080 --> 1:39:59.200 I kind of had, like, you know, a rude awakening 1:39:59.240 --> 1:40:01.280 to the reality of the world. You know, people like 1:40:01.320 --> 1:40:04.120 Sam and Dave, people like that. At the label, you know, 1:40:04.479 --> 1:40:06.280 there's an a k come up and come here. Let 1:40:06.280 --> 1:40:09.080 me talk to you. Bro. Don't don't you understand me? 1:40:09.160 --> 1:40:12.680 You you you gotta stop smiling. Man, this ain't a 1:40:12.760 --> 1:40:16.960 game out here. I oh, we always not. Yeah, wake 1:40:17.040 --> 1:40:20.559 up and I woke up. Let's go a little bit 1:40:20.640 --> 1:40:23.200 deeper than the catalog. Tell us the story and people 1:40:23.240 --> 1:40:25.040 gotta be free. O. Well, this story, you know, is 1:40:25.880 --> 1:40:30.120 really because of Bobby Kennedy. You know, I was working, uh, 1:40:30.360 --> 1:40:32.720 we were working for his campaign. I was very very 1:40:32.760 --> 1:40:36.200 involved with you know, I really wanted to you know, 1:40:36.600 --> 1:40:38.559 we really wanted to change the world in our day. 1:40:38.600 --> 1:40:40.639 You know, we we really gave it our best shot. 1:40:40.720 --> 1:40:44.120 You know, we we wanted to bring people the exact 1:40:44.120 --> 1:40:46.240 opposite of where we are right now with this this 1:40:46.400 --> 1:40:49.400 horror that's going on both within the United States and 1:40:49.560 --> 1:40:52.160 within Europe and Russia. You know, we didn't want that 1:40:52.200 --> 1:40:55.960 we want to stop. Stop all this peace, love, joy, happiness, 1:40:57.160 --> 1:41:00.200 the Golden Rule. Come on, you know, the messiahy can 1:41:00.240 --> 1:41:02.000 come until we all have it together. So let let's 1:41:02.040 --> 1:41:03.519 get it together. You know what I'm saying. I mean, 1:41:03.560 --> 1:41:06.800 what what is it? We were really, really really into that. 1:41:07.920 --> 1:41:11.800 While I was seeing this young lady who was at 1:41:11.800 --> 1:41:15.240 the assassination of Bobby Kennedy. She was there in Los Angeles, 1:41:15.479 --> 1:41:18.479 and I was, I was, I had a short wave radio, 1:41:18.600 --> 1:41:21.719 was in Jamaica. I was taking a little hiatus and 1:41:21.720 --> 1:41:24.200 and and I heard this, and man, it just two 1:41:25.920 --> 1:41:30.080 wow Martin Luther King. Now this man, I've got to 1:41:30.120 --> 1:41:34.320 say something. I got to do something. And that's how 1:41:34.640 --> 1:41:36.600 people got to be free started. It started as a 1:41:36.720 --> 1:41:41.080 kind of like a you know, okay, funding games, funding games. 1:41:41.840 --> 1:41:44.680 I just want to say something, let's do this. And 1:41:44.680 --> 1:41:46.599 it came out of my hands. It came out, you know, 1:41:47.520 --> 1:41:51.000 and Atlantic said, no, no, you don't want to do this. 1:41:51.600 --> 1:41:52.639 He said, what do you what do you mean? There's 1:41:52.680 --> 1:41:55.479 nothing and there's a Golden Rule. It's just very s No, no, 1:41:55.560 --> 1:41:58.599 you don't want to get involved in anything. Wexler West 1:41:58.640 --> 1:42:02.400 just so oh my god. I mean, he he was 1:42:02.439 --> 1:42:03.800 something I don't know if you ever had a chance 1:42:03.840 --> 1:42:06.160 to meet him or re view him, but he was 1:42:06.240 --> 1:42:09.000 quite a man. I mean, those those those early record executives. 1:42:09.040 --> 1:42:11.639 There was something else and he would pop the nitro 1:42:11.720 --> 1:42:13.760 glycer in the middle of an augument. Shut up, listen 1:42:13.760 --> 1:42:18.800 to me. Wait, shut up, you know, because oh boy, 1:42:20.320 --> 1:42:22.880 great man, great, great people. So how do you convince 1:42:22.960 --> 1:42:24.840 him to put it out? We were in charge, man, 1:42:24.920 --> 1:42:27.400 We we had we had We had a phenomenal contract 1:42:27.439 --> 1:42:31.679 in terms of control. We were the producers. We were 1:42:31.800 --> 1:42:34.799 where the buck stopped, you know, and and they couldn't 1:42:34.800 --> 1:42:38.360 really overrule us as far as like contractually that's written. 1:42:38.400 --> 1:42:41.720 We had free studio time. Think of that. Yeah, we 1:42:41.880 --> 1:42:44.439 go in there and camp out, man, and make our product. 1:42:44.920 --> 1:42:48.920 And uh, you know it was it was. It was wonderland. 1:42:48.920 --> 1:42:50.680 It really was, and and and and and then and 1:42:50.680 --> 1:42:53.240 then of course you know, like, so we ruin it. 1:42:53.280 --> 1:42:58.120 That's a good idea, Yeah, let's ruin it. So ultimately 1:42:58.160 --> 1:43:01.800 the hits dry up. Now to what degree is that 1:43:01.920 --> 1:43:05.960 because you don't have amuse And what does it feel 1:43:06.000 --> 1:43:08.840 like when the hits dry up? Well, you know, it's 1:43:08.880 --> 1:43:12.479 scary to say the least, you know, because uh, you know, 1:43:12.520 --> 1:43:14.320 you turn around and say, well, how come you know 1:43:14.400 --> 1:43:16.200 we we won the pennant last year and you know 1:43:16.280 --> 1:43:19.240 we're we're in for the fifth place this year. There's 1:43:19.280 --> 1:43:21.880 there any reason that we can rectify, you know, and 1:43:21.960 --> 1:43:24.599 you try to rectify it, and there's a lot of reasons, 1:43:25.040 --> 1:43:29.120 you know, summer internal, summer external. You know, the the 1:43:29.120 --> 1:43:31.280 the owners of the record company has a lot to 1:43:31.360 --> 1:43:34.720 do with what type of priority they're going to give 1:43:34.760 --> 1:43:38.679 you a product. You know, Uh, we were the first 1:43:38.680 --> 1:43:43.840 wide act on Atlantic. We were the first band on Atlantic. 1:43:44.439 --> 1:43:47.519 We were the first challenge George, that's the wrong word, 1:43:47.560 --> 1:43:53.160 not challenging. First Uh, inclusive group that had anything to 1:43:53.200 --> 1:43:57.519 do with the British invasion. We were there first. Okay, 1:43:57.640 --> 1:44:01.920 now we got a wreatha Now okay, we got you know, 1:44:02.640 --> 1:44:05.680 fill in the blink. Now the priority goes to a 1:44:05.720 --> 1:44:08.400 different place. Not only that, but the internal strife that 1:44:08.479 --> 1:44:12.360 was happening, It did not preclude them saying we're gonna 1:44:12.400 --> 1:44:15.240 put you know, X million dollars into this group because 1:44:15.240 --> 1:44:18.240 they're really dysfunctional right now. They're they're not they're not 1:44:18.320 --> 1:44:21.200 really doing they're not not firing at all cylinders. So 1:44:21.280 --> 1:44:26.480 when they take that that. You know, that publicity promotional 1:44:27.160 --> 1:44:29.280 uh fund for on of a better word. You know, 1:44:29.280 --> 1:44:31.120 a lot of people don't know what used to happen. 1:44:31.160 --> 1:44:33.000 I don't know if it still happens. In the record companies, 1:44:33.000 --> 1:44:35.840 you have a meeting every Monday and they decide your fate. 1:44:36.720 --> 1:44:39.240 This record is stopping right now. We're not putting any 1:44:39.240 --> 1:44:41.800 more money in it. Well your records going, man, that's it, 1:44:41.840 --> 1:44:44.519 You're done. We don't know about that. You know, we think, 1:44:45.200 --> 1:44:47.400 you know, the audience likes this, so they buy it. No, No, 1:44:47.840 --> 1:44:50.439 that's that's very naive. That's not what's happening out there, 1:44:50.680 --> 1:44:54.240 you know, and you know, you know better than everybody 1:44:54.240 --> 1:44:57.000 what it's all about. Now. It's just it's a different world. 1:44:57.600 --> 1:45:01.360 And I have my own theories about that. Started after Woodstock, 1:45:01.439 --> 1:45:04.120 you know, when the corporations came in and said, ha, 1:45:05.160 --> 1:45:07.840 there's gold in them there hills. And then that did it, 1:45:08.720 --> 1:45:12.439 you know, that beautiful event changed. You know. Okay, well 1:45:12.439 --> 1:45:14.160 we'll create a group, why not. You know, we don't 1:45:14.160 --> 1:45:16.040 have to use God's word. We'll just do our own. 1:45:16.080 --> 1:45:19.320 We'll put our you know, famous guys together and get 1:45:19.320 --> 1:45:22.519 an all star team. Sometimes it doesn't work, but anyway. 1:45:22.920 --> 1:45:27.000 So you know, those are part of the transitions that most, 1:45:27.720 --> 1:45:31.519 you know, people in our industry have to face. You know, 1:45:31.600 --> 1:45:34.640 whether you're a fighter or whether you're entertainer or you're 1:45:34.680 --> 1:45:39.599 a musician, you know you're gonna hit a point where, okay, 1:45:39.640 --> 1:45:43.320 you know, the young guys they probably it's probably this 1:45:43.479 --> 1:45:46.160 their their world now, you know, they take it over. 1:45:46.200 --> 1:45:49.720 What should I do? Well, that's where your guru comes in, 1:45:51.080 --> 1:45:55.800 because when I first met him, I told him a 1:45:55.880 --> 1:45:58.439 similar story. All it was about, you know, like they're 1:45:58.479 --> 1:46:01.160 producing hit records in a row rather than you know, 1:46:01.280 --> 1:46:04.280 disappearing from the face of the earth. And and he 1:46:04.360 --> 1:46:06.920 said to me these words that you know, He said, 1:46:07.320 --> 1:46:08.960 how old are you? And I was in my twenties, 1:46:08.960 --> 1:46:12.920 early twenties pair least, you know. And he said, well, 1:46:12.960 --> 1:46:15.720 you found out about this way before most people who 1:46:15.800 --> 1:46:18.400 find out that. And I'm using my English instead of his, 1:46:18.439 --> 1:46:20.800 because he would never use my words. But the whole 1:46:20.800 --> 1:46:22.960 thing is a croc. I don't care if you're a 1:46:23.040 --> 1:46:25.840 lawyer or doctor, you know, you name it. You just 1:46:25.880 --> 1:46:29.040 found out earlier. I said, what do you mean? He said, well, 1:46:29.120 --> 1:46:33.439 that's the world the world. Come with me, come over here, 1:46:33.920 --> 1:46:39.240 joined this team. We don't experience that over here, okay. 1:46:39.280 --> 1:46:41.759 So I was ready for it when the ship started 1:46:41.760 --> 1:46:44.599 to sink, and when it went down, I was ready 1:46:44.640 --> 1:46:48.440 for it. So it was the decades ensued the swami 1:46:48.720 --> 1:46:51.920 helped you cope or did you say, hey, I I 1:46:52.080 --> 1:46:54.040 still have it, I want I got it, I want 1:46:54.080 --> 1:46:56.200 my chance, I want to have another hit. Well, you 1:46:56.200 --> 1:46:59.639 know that's you can ask some great questions, man, because 1:46:59.680 --> 1:47:02.000 you know, when you get involved with it with a guru, 1:47:02.200 --> 1:47:05.400 you know, uh, it's it's really a commitment on to 1:47:05.680 --> 1:47:08.439 two sides, his side and your side. He doesn't just 1:47:08.439 --> 1:47:10.880 say yeah, I sign them up, you know what I mean. 1:47:11.040 --> 1:47:14.800 They take a commitment on that's very very very very 1:47:15.240 --> 1:47:20.720 very very deep. It's eternal. They're kind of responsible for 1:47:20.800 --> 1:47:23.519 your karma from that point on. That's a big statement. 1:47:24.840 --> 1:47:30.320 And when we on the other side get involved with them, 1:47:30.479 --> 1:47:36.160 we go into a place that you really never leave 1:47:37.400 --> 1:47:43.240 because you know, I pray in Sanskrit and Hindu, I 1:47:43.240 --> 1:47:47.240 I know the language. You know, I my whole life. 1:47:47.720 --> 1:47:52.400 You know. His style is is to just purify my 1:47:52.400 --> 1:47:54.360 my mind and my body as much as I can, 1:47:55.120 --> 1:47:58.040 you know, and still be part of the world. You know, 1:47:58.160 --> 1:48:03.120 and and and so it's it's me. That's what he made. 1:48:03.640 --> 1:48:05.760 You know. There there's there's a theory. I don't know 1:48:05.760 --> 1:48:08.639 if it's correct in terms of numbers, but every twelve years, 1:48:08.680 --> 1:48:13.240 every cell in your body changes, it's reborn, it's regrown. 1:48:14.479 --> 1:48:16.880 The idea is to be with the Guru for twelve years, 1:48:16.920 --> 1:48:20.280 every cell of your body has been infected in with 1:48:20.439 --> 1:48:24.040 you know, his grace, whatever you want to call it. 1:48:24.320 --> 1:48:26.880 So your whole body is like I'm a yogi. I'm 1:48:26.880 --> 1:48:31.559 a yogi, you know, I mean, you know, it's really interesting. 1:48:31.840 --> 1:48:33.559 I mean I could go on for hours about it, 1:48:33.600 --> 1:48:36.320 but you know this is who I am. So you 1:48:36.360 --> 1:48:40.559 know he he prepared us, you know, like for example, 1:48:40.600 --> 1:48:42.920 like your physical body. You know, I'm close to eight, 1:48:43.880 --> 1:48:47.000 you know, and and I learned. You know what, Man, 1:48:47.040 --> 1:48:49.200 if you if you take care of your body and 1:48:49.240 --> 1:48:51.679 you take care of your mind, I can still sing, 1:48:53.120 --> 1:48:55.920 you know, I can still swim, man, I can still walk, 1:48:56.000 --> 1:48:59.320 I can still you know, thank you, Because that's what 1:48:59.360 --> 1:49:02.760 it's about. If do the exercises mentally physically, keep your 1:49:02.920 --> 1:49:07.040 you're gonna be okay. But if you don't, chances are 1:49:07.080 --> 1:49:08.880 you you know, the genetics are going to take over 1:49:08.960 --> 1:49:10.680 your d n A and your RNA and and you're 1:49:10.680 --> 1:49:13.360 you're gonna start hurting man and in later life. So 1:49:13.479 --> 1:49:18.000 you know, I owe a lot to that that education. Okay, 1:49:18.160 --> 1:49:21.559 going back to the mundane mundane from the ethereal, how 1:49:21.560 --> 1:49:27.839 did you hook up with Laura Nero? And he really like, well, okay, 1:49:27.960 --> 1:49:31.120 everybody's familiar with the name David Geffen. Of course, David 1:49:31.120 --> 1:49:35.360 Geffen introduced me to her. And what happened basically is, 1:49:35.560 --> 1:49:37.800 let's start from the beginning. How did you know David Geff? Well, 1:49:37.920 --> 1:49:40.559 David Giff, I knew you were gonna act that that's 1:49:40.560 --> 1:49:44.800 so cool. David Geffer was part of an agency called 1:49:44.840 --> 1:49:48.640 I think it was G A C. And you know, 1:49:50.160 --> 1:49:53.479 he invited he wanted to sign the Rascals to his agency. 1:49:53.520 --> 1:49:57.280 We were with a different agency with ABC, so he 1:49:58.040 --> 1:49:59.600 got to touch with me and he invited me to 1:49:59.680 --> 1:50:03.240 his this and that's when I realized that I was 1:50:03.320 --> 1:50:08.040 dealing with a business genius, because before I walked out 1:50:08.080 --> 1:50:11.680 of the room, he had me completely convinced that I 1:50:11.680 --> 1:50:15.160 should be we should be with his agency. And then 1:50:15.160 --> 1:50:21.920 he left a week later, so I realized, Wow, this 1:50:21.960 --> 1:50:25.080 guy just did you switch? I switched but he was gone. 1:50:25.400 --> 1:50:29.639 See he was so good. Obviously, you know, you don't 1:50:29.680 --> 1:50:33.200 get to that state, you know, in the world because 1:50:33.240 --> 1:50:37.080 you know somebody you know unless you inherit it. He's 1:50:37.160 --> 1:50:41.080 smart guy, man, really smart. But I mean I he said, 1:50:41.120 --> 1:50:44.160 how would you like to meet the most difficult person 1:50:44.240 --> 1:50:46.680 you've ever met? I said, wow, what do you mean? 1:50:46.680 --> 1:50:49.679 He says, well, I managed Laura Nero and she needs 1:50:49.680 --> 1:50:53.559 a producer. She really likes your music. Would you be interested? 1:50:54.720 --> 1:50:58.680 I love to produce? I said, of course, yes, a 1:50:58.720 --> 1:51:01.439 little did I know is gonna fall in love from 1:51:01.439 --> 1:51:04.719 my head to my toe with one of the most 1:51:04.840 --> 1:51:13.040 charming you know in eccentric talented human beings on earth? What? What? 1:51:13.040 --> 1:51:15.240 What a gift? That was? So? What was it like 1:51:15.280 --> 1:51:19.280 working with it? What was she like? She's a bronx girl, 1:51:19.960 --> 1:51:21.320 you know what I mean. I mean she would she 1:51:21.320 --> 1:51:24.040 would have you know, she would. She would dangle Daniel 1:51:24.120 --> 1:51:25.679 a cigarette out of her mouth and if she didn't 1:51:25.720 --> 1:51:29.560 like what you said, she'd hit you. She was fantastic, 1:51:30.240 --> 1:51:32.240 you know, I mean, I've said it so many times. 1:51:32.400 --> 1:51:35.759 I have never met a purer artist in my life. 1:51:36.439 --> 1:51:39.800 You know, she could care less about sales. She could 1:51:39.840 --> 1:51:44.720 care less about publicity. She wanted what she heard, what 1:51:44.840 --> 1:51:48.600 she envisioned. I hear it like this, I want to 1:51:48.640 --> 1:51:52.200 record it like this. And that's that's really the rub here. 1:51:52.280 --> 1:51:54.760 That's the interesting part of this is because you know, 1:51:54.840 --> 1:51:59.240 there's certain rules unwritten that you know, the radio stations 1:51:59.240 --> 1:52:01.280 are not going to play this song if you do this, 1:52:02.120 --> 1:52:05.720 don't stop and go, you know, especially in the A M. Days, 1:52:05.800 --> 1:52:10.160 and you know, don't change keys like that, don't don't 1:52:10.680 --> 1:52:15.080 go like this a mempic, you know. But she did 1:52:15.120 --> 1:52:17.960 all that, you know, and you know, Clive and the 1:52:18.000 --> 1:52:19.880 people at the labels say what are you doing? You 1:52:19.920 --> 1:52:23.840 can't do this, and and she just that's what I hear. 1:52:25.040 --> 1:52:29.360 So Fifth Dimension, Blood, Sweat and Tears, the Three Dog Night. 1:52:29.400 --> 1:52:32.200 They say, okay, we're gonna take out all that, and 1:52:32.240 --> 1:52:35.280 we got number one record, you know, and they did. 1:52:35.720 --> 1:52:37.760 They had number one after number one with her songs, 1:52:37.760 --> 1:52:41.400 because songs were brilliant, absolutely genius. So, you know, I 1:52:41.640 --> 1:52:43.519 really don't know what else he canna say. But I 1:52:43.600 --> 1:52:46.000 never met anybody like that. I never will meet anybody 1:52:46.040 --> 1:52:49.320 like that. Were you around when she split from Geffen? Yeah, 1:52:49.600 --> 1:52:52.639 what was that like? Well, you know, that's an interesting story. 1:52:52.720 --> 1:52:55.040 You know, you know, I mean, you have to be 1:52:55.080 --> 1:52:58.040 really careful when you talk about like this. These cult 1:52:58.120 --> 1:53:01.960 people like Laura and he In Monkeys, their audience is 1:53:02.240 --> 1:53:10.080 very sensitive, very sensitive. You can't say anything negative. But 1:53:10.160 --> 1:53:13.080 I just I'll preface it by saying like this, if 1:53:13.080 --> 1:53:15.559 somebody's gonna screw me and make me a millionaire at 1:53:15.600 --> 1:53:20.719 the same time, I may not be too angry. Okay, 1:53:20.760 --> 1:53:23.760 that puts a bowl on it. Yes, let's move back 1:53:23.800 --> 1:53:27.160 to you. So in the time you have left somewhere 1:53:27.160 --> 1:53:31.280 between a minute and twenty five years, anything you want 1:53:31.280 --> 1:53:33.240 to do, anything you need to do, anything you want 1:53:33.240 --> 1:53:38.400 to accomplish. Ah. Yeah, you know I recently, you know 1:53:38.720 --> 1:53:42.559 that a symphony with my music that I loved, you know, 1:53:42.720 --> 1:53:44.920 I mean that that was fun. And I'd like to 1:53:44.960 --> 1:53:47.240 crack into that a little more because I had these 1:53:47.240 --> 1:53:52.360 fantastic charts done, you know, and uh, you know Frankie Valley, 1:53:52.400 --> 1:53:53.960 you know he does them all the time, you know, 1:53:54.160 --> 1:53:55.760 And and and the night that I did and I 1:53:55.760 --> 1:53:58.160 did it. We have a fantastic symphony here in Nashville. 1:53:58.240 --> 1:54:00.160 You know, this is one of the best. You know, 1:54:00.200 --> 1:54:02.720 the musicians here really want to be here, you know 1:54:02.720 --> 1:54:04.519 what I mean, because they can also work during the 1:54:04.600 --> 1:54:07.000 day and do sessions stuff. They make good money here. 1:54:07.160 --> 1:54:10.559 I gotta fend Anyway, When I did that, Frankie texted 1:54:10.600 --> 1:54:14.400 me just before the show and he said, You're never 1:54:14.479 --> 1:54:16.880 gonna want to do anything else. Man, I'm paraphrasing, but 1:54:17.320 --> 1:54:20.320 this is it. You're gonna You're gonna freak. And it 1:54:20.400 --> 1:54:22.920 was just like, oh my god, you know, and all 1:54:22.960 --> 1:54:25.599 the emotions running through me. I mean, wow, you know, 1:54:26.560 --> 1:54:30.360 this is how I started, you know, with symphonic you know, 1:54:31.200 --> 1:54:35.800 desires or whatever. Wow, it was fun that that's the 1:54:35.800 --> 1:54:38.200 only world I really really would want to crack that 1:54:38.280 --> 1:54:40.120 I really haven't been able to crack into as much 1:54:40.160 --> 1:54:43.440 as i'd like to now. Frequently, when you know, when 1:54:43.520 --> 1:54:47.280 people age, they get a victory lap. Jeff Beck had 1:54:47.280 --> 1:54:50.400 a victory lab. Joni Mitchell now has an an ending 1:54:50.520 --> 1:54:53.440 victory lap. Noth of these people don't deserve it. Do 1:54:53.600 --> 1:54:57.200 you feel ripped off that you haven't quite gotten your 1:54:57.280 --> 1:55:01.920 victory lap? As an older statement, who's really made their 1:55:01.960 --> 1:55:05.520 impact upon the musical world, Well, the victory lap in 1:55:05.640 --> 1:55:08.600 terms of uh, you know, like, uh, there's a there's 1:55:08.600 --> 1:55:11.880 a lot of different uh you know, stairs to that 1:55:11.920 --> 1:55:14.000 you know, basically. One of them is of course financial, 1:55:14.320 --> 1:55:17.600 you know. Uh. A second of all is like you know, 1:55:17.720 --> 1:55:20.320 your name in the world or your your position in 1:55:20.360 --> 1:55:24.680 the world. Yeah, you know, but but not not not 1:55:24.760 --> 1:55:27.240 like that, you know, I mean, you know, the the 1:55:28.160 --> 1:55:30.760 interesting thing is that about Oh god, I'm trying to 1:55:30.760 --> 1:55:37.680 sink time now. Around two thousand and eighteen, uh pc, 1:55:37.880 --> 1:55:40.560 as they say, pre COVID, you know, right right right 1:55:40.600 --> 1:55:43.400 back when the world was open. I went to Hawaii, 1:55:43.720 --> 1:55:48.160 uh doing one of my fields Cavalery Rascal shows, and 1:55:48.320 --> 1:55:51.040 you know, it's interesting. And if I'm taking too long 1:55:51.080 --> 1:55:53.080 with these answers, please tell me, because oh no, no, 1:55:53.160 --> 1:55:55.880 this is what I want. Absolutely. Rule of wrestles were 1:55:56.000 --> 1:56:00.640 immense in Hawaii for a number of reasons. Uh. The 1:56:00.680 --> 1:56:03.080 simplest way to say is that is that we were 1:56:03.080 --> 1:56:04.880 the closest thing they could get to R and B 1:56:05.600 --> 1:56:08.720 for a lot of reasons. I don't know if people know, 1:56:09.080 --> 1:56:11.320 but you know, in Hawaii there's a lot of reasons, 1:56:11.800 --> 1:56:15.920 you know. Uh, we were the closest thing. So these 1:56:16.000 --> 1:56:18.600 DJs that were out there, and these people, Tom Moffatt 1:56:18.680 --> 1:56:21.120 was his name, and this gentleman named the Beard made 1:56:21.160 --> 1:56:25.920 us beatles. They adored us and I said, this is great. 1:56:26.160 --> 1:56:27.920 Let's help with the rest of the world. Let's just 1:56:27.960 --> 1:56:32.160 be famous here, you know, because this is this is nice. Well, 1:56:32.280 --> 1:56:36.560 one of the things that we did in those days is, uh, 1:56:36.720 --> 1:56:39.200 we were we were invited to go to the other islands, 1:56:39.200 --> 1:56:43.080 the Outer Islands. Now, the problem was that in the 1:56:43.080 --> 1:56:45.560 Outer Islands there were no stages, there were no theaters. 1:56:45.560 --> 1:56:48.160 I mean, these people were doing sugarcane and pineapple and 1:56:48.240 --> 1:56:51.760 just small little things. So okay, well we're the free concerts. 1:56:52.280 --> 1:56:54.640 We're gonna invite all all of the you know, the 1:56:54.640 --> 1:56:56.960 the Hawaiians that want to come and the people who 1:56:56.960 --> 1:56:59.880 lived there, and uh, we're gonna do it free in 1:57:00.240 --> 1:57:03.680 and just set us up in the park. Okay, now 1:57:03.720 --> 1:57:07.720 we turn the clock back, I mean forward what sixty 1:57:07.800 --> 1:57:13.560 years now, people who are now established elderly. Is one 1:57:13.600 --> 1:57:15.680 case as followed as a candy factory. It makes that 1:57:15.760 --> 1:57:19.040 famous macadamia candy. They come to the show and they said, 1:57:19.040 --> 1:57:25.440 when I was sixteen, I'll never forget you guys, and 1:57:25.520 --> 1:57:28.440 here you are. And I said, yeah, he says, let 1:57:28.480 --> 1:57:31.200 me ask you, is there any way you could bring 1:57:31.240 --> 1:57:36.080 the guys together one more time, one more time? And 1:57:36.120 --> 1:57:39.440 I said, you know what, at some point in life, 1:57:39.440 --> 1:57:41.600 you gotta start put the axe and the hatchet and 1:57:42.480 --> 1:57:44.400 arrows down. You gotta say, hey, you know what, man, 1:57:44.960 --> 1:57:48.040 why not? Why don't we do three or four shows? 1:57:48.080 --> 1:57:51.480 We do Los Angeles, we do New York, we do Chicago, 1:57:51.640 --> 1:57:56.000 and we do MAUI. Oh wow, And then we go home. 1:57:57.040 --> 1:58:00.480 You know what is it? Three to five shows? You know, 1:58:01.320 --> 1:58:05.240 say goodbye to our friends, say goodbye to our fans. 1:58:06.160 --> 1:58:09.640 So I go back home. I called up, you know, 1:58:10.160 --> 1:58:11.840 I call a Bobby, my manager. I said, what do 1:58:11.880 --> 1:58:15.480 you think? And he said, look, you know, I thought 1:58:15.520 --> 1:58:17.520 we weren't allowed to say that word around here? What 1:58:17.560 --> 1:58:23.240 word rascals? I said, yeah, well you're you're right here. 1:58:23.400 --> 1:58:26.240 We're not allowed to say that word around I understand, 1:58:26.600 --> 1:58:31.600 you know, but what do you think? He said, Look, 1:58:31.640 --> 1:58:33.840 I'll tell you what. Get on the phone, call the guys, 1:58:33.960 --> 1:58:42.600 see what happens. Well, I'm still in court because I 1:58:42.640 --> 1:58:45.320 called up Eddie. I said, Eddie, what what do you think? Man? 1:58:45.400 --> 1:58:47.440 I scared the hell out of him. You know, yeah, 1:58:47.440 --> 1:58:48.800 what do you want? Man? I said, well, you know, 1:58:49.800 --> 1:58:51.920 what do you think? Do three or four shows? Go 1:58:51.960 --> 1:58:53.760 out there and just you know, rock and roll or something, 1:58:53.800 --> 1:58:56.120 he says, well, I'm sorry, man, I I gotta commitment, 1:58:56.240 --> 1:58:58.120 you know, I gotta commitment with Steve Vans, and you 1:58:58.160 --> 1:59:00.400 know I can't do it. So you sure y see you. 1:59:02.120 --> 1:59:06.440 I remember I called you, and I called Jean Gene. Gene. 1:59:07.600 --> 1:59:09.640 He's ready to go. That's one thing I gotta say 1:59:09.640 --> 1:59:12.440 about Gene Cornish in those days. I mean, he's unfortunately 1:59:12.480 --> 1:59:15.480 not too well now. He wanted to work. He adored 1:59:15.760 --> 1:59:21.400 the stage. He made a pact with his mom when 1:59:21.400 --> 1:59:24.440 she took him to an early concert in Rochester. That's 1:59:24.480 --> 1:59:27.200 what I want to do. I want to be up there, man. 1:59:28.280 --> 1:59:30.840 And he really wants to be up there. He loves 1:59:30.960 --> 1:59:34.880 it's part of his That's that's that's Gene. He exists 1:59:34.960 --> 1:59:38.720 as no family, no wife, no kids. He's a musician 1:59:38.800 --> 1:59:40.480 and he wants to be on and and and and 1:59:40.480 --> 1:59:44.160 and Dino. You know again, you know I I just 1:59:44.240 --> 1:59:46.120 try to try to put him back into and it 1:59:46.160 --> 1:59:48.240 will come on. Let's go to work, man, let's let's 1:59:48.320 --> 1:59:51.240 let's why, let's let's do and And that was unfortunate, 1:59:52.280 --> 1:59:54.520 that was really unfortunate the way that that turned out, 1:59:54.560 --> 1:59:57.520 because it didn't turn out well. You know, Jane said, yes, 1:59:57.560 --> 2:00:00.760 everybody else said no, and so it's it didn't happen, 2:00:00.960 --> 2:00:03.920 you know, and and and you know, I'm really going, 2:00:04.200 --> 2:00:07.920 you know, very carefully through the uh tiptoeing through the 2:00:07.960 --> 2:00:10.800 tulips here because I had to be careful. But basically, 2:00:11.000 --> 2:00:13.040 you know what it is is, come on, man, we're 2:00:13.040 --> 2:00:15.640 almost eighty freaking years old. What the hell are we 2:00:15.680 --> 2:00:18.160 gonna do? Man, Let's just go out and have some 2:00:18.240 --> 2:00:20.840 fun and make some money. Oh God forbid, and make 2:00:20.920 --> 2:00:25.800 some money. Wow, she's wow. It's very disappointing. I mean, 2:00:25.840 --> 2:00:29.560 I'm so disappointed. But these guys that just you know, 2:00:30.280 --> 2:00:32.160 they don't realize what they have and what they mean 2:00:32.200 --> 2:00:36.640 to people, and how many people really adore the group. 2:00:37.160 --> 2:00:39.200 I love it. It's part of their it's part of 2:00:39.240 --> 2:00:41.960 their youth. Well, you've been able to survive both on 2:00:42.080 --> 2:00:46.640 royalties from songwriting and records that are have the other 2:00:46.680 --> 2:00:50.520 guys been able to survive all these years? Yes? And no? Yes, 2:00:50.600 --> 2:00:53.320 me and Eddie was a writer. The other two guys 2:00:53.480 --> 2:00:55.600 not really. You know, they had a tough time. But 2:00:55.920 --> 2:00:59.640 you know, you also have to pay attention, you know, 2:01:01.120 --> 2:01:03.280 more more than ever today. I mean, like I say, 2:01:03.360 --> 2:01:05.160 you know, when you get a check don't don't spend 2:01:05.200 --> 2:01:07.520 the whole check, you know what I mean when your 2:01:07.560 --> 2:01:11.800 advisors tell you, you you know, you can't afford that horse. Uh, 2:01:11.960 --> 2:01:15.000 you shouldn't get a rules. You know. If you do it, 2:01:15.080 --> 2:01:17.800 you know at the time, you're gonna be very happy, 2:01:17.880 --> 2:01:21.200 but not for long because tomorrow is right around the corner, 2:01:21.280 --> 2:01:23.879 you know. And so that's basically you gotta pay attention. 2:01:23.920 --> 2:01:28.160 You know, we ad advisors and you gotta listen to 2:01:28.160 --> 2:01:30.520 the advisors. So what are you most proud of at 2:01:30.600 --> 2:01:33.160 this point? Oh, just the fact that I'm still doing it, 2:01:33.200 --> 2:01:36.200 you know. And you know, I just you know, I 2:01:36.240 --> 2:01:38.880 get a chance to seriously be around people like you, 2:01:38.880 --> 2:01:40.640 you know, because I remember when we first met, you know, 2:01:40.680 --> 2:01:43.600 I did that. Yeah, I just really enjoy what I do, 2:01:43.680 --> 2:01:45.800 you know, and and and and it's like anything else. 2:01:45.840 --> 2:01:47.280 I mean, you do not try to tell my kids 2:01:47.280 --> 2:01:49.920 all the time. It's not all you know, flowers and 2:01:49.920 --> 2:01:51.320 all that. But you know, you gotta, you gotta, you 2:01:51.400 --> 2:01:54.120 gotta deal with it. But if you're doing something that 2:01:54.200 --> 2:01:57.400 you really love all your life, there's really not too 2:01:57.440 --> 2:01:59.760 much to complain about, you know, I mean, seriously, you 2:01:59.760 --> 2:02:03.800 could complained, but nobody listens. Well, one thing. None of 2:02:03.880 --> 2:02:06.160 us are gonna live forever, but these songs are gonna 2:02:06.200 --> 2:02:10.920 live forever, and that's a very cool thing. And certainly 2:02:11.080 --> 2:02:14.080 they live forever within me. So Felix taking thanks so 2:02:14.160 --> 2:02:16.160 much for taking the time to speak. Well, I knew 2:02:16.160 --> 2:02:18.360 it was gonna be fun man, and and and I 2:02:18.400 --> 2:02:21.400 really hope you realize how much I'm kind of a 2:02:21.440 --> 2:02:24.480 fan because I listened to you and I really enjoyed 2:02:24.640 --> 2:02:27.400 meeting you way back then and I did again today. 2:02:27.400 --> 2:02:29.080 Thank you so much. Well, as I say, I have 2:02:29.120 --> 2:02:32.560 a lot more questions. We'll have to do in person sometime, 2:02:32.680 --> 2:02:34.080 but you know, I don't want to burn out the 2:02:34.080 --> 2:02:38.160 audience completely, but thanks again. This was great. I enjoyed 2:02:38.200 --> 2:02:39.960 every moment of it, and thank you. And I just 2:02:40.000 --> 2:02:42.360 gotta say before it Abby gets mad at me, Felix 2:02:42.400 --> 2:02:46.960 Cavalry Music dot com. That's where the book is, okay, absolutely, 2:02:47.000 --> 2:02:50.600 And the book comes out one day launch twenty second okay. 2:02:50.720 --> 2:02:52.960 So people, especially in today's day, where you can buy 2:02:52.960 --> 2:02:56.480 it online or in your store, it's fully available. It's 2:02:56.480 --> 2:02:59.480 I'm the audience just have to make that effort. As 2:02:59.520 --> 2:03:03.720 I say, it's really a whole tale, not just for 2:03:03.880 --> 2:03:08.160 hardcore Rascal's fans, although everybody from our generation really was. 2:03:08.560 --> 2:03:11.920 So until next time. This is Bob left sex