1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,399 Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one 4 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 5 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 6 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 7 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you 8 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. Welcome to It could Happen 9 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: Here the show where I had to change the introduction 10 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:32,959 Speaker 1: because Sophie said it would confuse people. So now we're 11 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: just doing the boring thing and saying the actual name 12 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: of the show, which is it could Happen Here. Um. 13 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 1: It's a show about the fact that the society is 14 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: kind of falling apart or changing, depending on your perspective 15 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: of things, and people need to prepare for what's coming, 16 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: which is a world of greater instability and economic collapse 17 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: and rising authoritarianism and increasing fights in order to reverse 18 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: and stymy all of those terrible things. UM. And you know, 19 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: one of the things I've seen in some early feedback 20 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: from um other stuff I've done on other shows, and 21 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: also from earlier episodes of this is people who will 22 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: go like, Hey, everything you're saying about mutual aid is rad, 23 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: but I live in X town in whatever state, and 24 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: there's there's nothing here. There's not not an organized left. 25 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: I don't I don't know of any mutual aid groups. Um, 26 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: how can I get involved? Or like, how could I 27 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 1: start my own organization and try to get people involved? 28 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: And then the another thing we get asked a lot 29 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: is like, Hey, what you're saying about building resiliency and 30 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: preparing for difficult times, gardening and whatnot sounds great, But 31 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: I'm poor as ship and I live in a tiny 32 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: apartment um or whatever. I I have no resources or 33 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: no room. Um, even if you're not none of enough money, 34 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: like I'm in the middle of some horribly dense city. 35 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: So this week we're gonna be talking around those subjects 36 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: in a number of different ways. And to kind of 37 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: kick us off, I've got, of course, Garrison with me. 38 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: Woke come up at nine in the morning. How are 39 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: you doing, Garrison ungodly early? Yeah, it's it's it's hideous, 40 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: it's hideous. Um. And then Margaret Killjoy, who's up at 41 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 1: a much more reasonable hour because time zones are a 42 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: wild ass thing. Margaret, How do you? How do we? 43 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: How do we introduce you? You're an author, you're a 44 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: writer of fiction. You host a podcast called Live Like 45 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: the World Is Dying, right, and you've had me on 46 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: and you talk about a lot of the same things 47 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: we talked about, and it could happen here. We're actually 48 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: shamelessly stealing your your your podcast in order to make 49 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: it corporate and sold out. How are you doing, Margaret, 50 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: I'm excited to be part of the corporate, sold out podcast, um, 51 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: and and actually very glad that you all do a 52 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 1: wider audience thing. But um, I think that is a 53 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: decent way to introduce me. I do a lot of 54 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: different things, and I've been doing also, like organizing and 55 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: trying to seek radical political change for about twenty years. Yes, 56 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: degrees of success. Actually mostly not to any success, because 57 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: we actually still live in maybe a worse society than 58 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: we were in two years ago. Yeah. I tell people 59 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: that I dropped out of college to ride freight trains 60 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: and overthrow the government, and I wasn't good at either 61 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: of those things. I mean, you have all your limbs, 62 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,519 Speaker 1: that's true. I do have all of my limbs. Yeah, 63 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: and you're not in prison, um, which is really all 64 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: anyone can ask of the universe. Um. So, you have 65 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: started a number of organizations in your career as an 66 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: activist in kind of that hat. And I guess let's 67 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: start with like, yes, somebody who lives in a place, 68 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: there's no kind of really really organized left. There's probably 69 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: not in a lot of these places much of even 70 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: like a democratic party. There's certainly not mutual aid efforts. UM. 71 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: And I do think that there's a well, well, mutual 72 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: aid as a concept is is pretty firmly rooted an anarchism. 73 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: There's mutual aid kind of organizations that are are not 74 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: particularly leftist or at least people doing stuff like that. 75 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: Like I think a good recent example will be the 76 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: Occasion Navy, who did a lot of rescues after the 77 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: most recent set of hurricanes, where certainly not a left 78 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: or an anarchist organization, but a lot of what they're 79 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 1: doing is um is a community aiding itself. UM So, 80 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 1: I don't know where where do we where? Where do 81 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 1: you want to start here? Well, I guess I mean 82 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: specifically in disaster times, you don't necessarily work with the 83 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: people that you would assume that you're expecting to work with. 84 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: And you know, one of the one of the stories 85 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: that really sticks with me is like a friend of 86 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: mine who's this, you know, um train riding anarchist with 87 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: covered in tattoos and and all of that. And during 88 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 1: flood relief in eastern North Carolina was like flying into 89 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: storms and small planes with libertarians because the people who 90 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: are willing to fly small planes into storms and own 91 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: planes tend to be the more libertarian side of things. 92 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 1: And so here's anarchists and libertarians working together to get 93 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: people what they need. And one of the things that 94 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 1: I try, because this is one of the biggest questions 95 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: I think that the left faces, and you know, people 96 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: trying to make the world better faces, is how do 97 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: we get people involved? And also how do people get 98 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: involved if no one's helping them get involved? And um, 99 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: I don't have all the answers about it, but it's 100 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: something that I I think about obsessively some a lot. 101 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: And one of the things that I really try and 102 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 1: focus on with people as people say, well, I want 103 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 1: to be prepared, and you talk about community being a 104 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: very important part of apparedness, but I don't feel like 105 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: I have a community, because we live in a very 106 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 1: isolated society. And one of the main things I try 107 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: and remind people though, is that in the same way 108 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: that property relations break down, like someone's like, oh, I 109 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 1: don't have any stuff, and if the apocalypse comes, what 110 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: will I do? And like, well, the kind of the 111 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: answer is that like, once property relations break down, there's 112 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff and it's very people. There will 113 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:54,119 Speaker 1: be much stuff around, Like warehouses exist full of stuff 114 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: and yeah, Amazon warehouses are going to become like fun boxes. Yeah, exactly, 115 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: slash fortified outposts alleged yea. And community is the same way, 116 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: not that you would go raid community, but instead that 117 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: um some people. Yeah, that's true. And but you can 118 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: you can create community in times of crisis in a 119 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,679 Speaker 1: way that's actually harder to do when the existing social 120 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: order exists. And and the the thing I always say 121 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: uses my my dumb example of this about how people 122 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 1: come together during times of crisis is you know, when 123 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: I'm waiting for the bus and you know, some city 124 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: or something, and no one talks to each other if 125 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: you don't know each other until the bus is like 126 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 1: five minutes late, and then everyone is comparing notes about 127 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: where they think they saw the bus last and everyone's 128 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: friends and sharing snacks and things. You know. So in 129 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: some ways, I'm like, be optimistic if you don't already 130 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: no community. Yeah, And I think there's also things you 131 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 1: can do that don't necessarily cost a lot of money 132 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: to both kind of build resiliency and kind of community connections. Now, 133 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: one of those things I've had a lot of friends 134 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: in difference at ease work for there. There will be 135 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: different farming co ops, right, and generally the arrangement is 136 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 1: you volunteer some sort of time helping them with you know, 137 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: there's a lot of ship work on farms, and in 138 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: return you generally get some amount of produce or whatever. 139 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: But really what you're getting is practical experience growing food, 140 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: and you're meeting the kind of people who are interested 141 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: in growing their own food, and you know, those kind 142 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: of connections can be really helpful when things get worse. 143 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: And so I think it doesn't necessarily it doesn't have 144 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: to cost much to to try building community now, or 145 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: to at least try putting yourself in some of the 146 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: spaces where the kind of people you might want to 147 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: be in, the kind of people you you might want 148 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: to know when things get worse might be Yeah, and 149 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: there's a lot of, um, there's a lot of like opportunities. 150 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: The world kind of wants you to volunteer, you know, 151 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: there's all of these things that if you reach out 152 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: to people and you're like, hey, I don't have any connections, 153 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: but I'm interested olunteering, there are types of organizations that 154 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: do interesting things that are open to that. You know, 155 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: I kind of maybe it's terrible, but whenever my friends, 156 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,559 Speaker 1: especially my friends were in their twenties or something who 157 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: we don't really feel kind of lost and without direction 158 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: for a while, I'm like, go sit in a tree, 159 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: like go join direct action environmentalist groups that are desperate 160 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: for people to come live their lives in this like 161 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:29,239 Speaker 1: self sustaining community. That is incredibly traumatic and hard to do. 162 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: And I don't necessarily recommend this to everybody, but you know, 163 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: it's a thing that you can do, is that you 164 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:38,079 Speaker 1: can go participate in in different movements, some of which 165 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: do want strangers, you know, some of which don't write. Um, 166 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: you can't show up to everything and be like why 167 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: aren't you including me? You're a bunch of assholes. Yeah, 168 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: And um, I don't know. So when when it comes 169 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: to actually like trying to start something, um like like 170 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: like going out and accepting, Okay, there's not maybe I can't. 171 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: I can't leave my family behind and go to a 172 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: tree set. But I would like to, you know, start 173 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:11,199 Speaker 1: a community engaging in something direct Maybe that's not illegal 174 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: direct action, maybe it is. It's none of my business. Um, 175 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,959 Speaker 1: how do you recommend people just kind of start organizations? 176 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: Find people avoid pitfalls? Like you know, if you've got 177 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: to make your own mutual aid group because there's not 178 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:26,839 Speaker 1: one in your town and you you wanna. I mean, 179 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: people have expressed a desire to understand how to do that. 180 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 1: So I'm you know, I've never I'm not an organizer. 181 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: I'm barely a journalist. I am curious for your thoughts 182 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: on that. Well, okay, so as my own caveat is, 183 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: I'm no longer an organizer. I spent much of my 184 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: twenties being part of organizations, and then I finally, um 185 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: realize that I can just kind of do whatever I 186 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: want and then figure out how to plug that into 187 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: other people's things. But I will say the the main 188 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: way I've heard this expressed and I believe in, is 189 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: that we should do if you want to start getting involved, 190 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: is you think about what you're good at and where 191 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: you think about what you want to be good at, 192 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: and then you think about the problems that you're facing, 193 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: and then you think about how to apply what you're 194 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: good at to the problems that you're facing. So if 195 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: you're sitting there and you're like, well, I'm a I'm 196 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: a really good illustrator, right, I'm not. I'm a terrible illustrator. 197 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: But let's say you're a good illustrator, and then you 198 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: you could basically reach out to organizations that maybe you 199 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 1: aren't even close and be like, hey, I'm an illustrator. 200 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: Is there anything I can do for you? All? Um? 201 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: But if what you want to do is start an 202 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: organization locally, it's okay to start small and build up. 203 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,079 Speaker 1: It's okay to you know, it's kind of a if 204 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: you build it, they will come kind of thing in general, 205 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: like if you start, if you figure out what you 206 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: need to do, you know, we want to distribute supplies, right, 207 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: then you just do it like you just. Um, even 208 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: if you start by yourself or ideally you kind of 209 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: start with yourself and a couple of friends that you 210 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: drag into it, and then you see what gets inertia 211 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: like rather than like forcing, rather than starting off, don't 212 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: start off by writing your by laws. Um, you know, 213 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: maybe start with an idea of like if you have 214 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,559 Speaker 1: a cool name that you want to use, like sometimes 215 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: that's great to start with, like a hook, and like 216 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: starting a band or something. You know you'd start with 217 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: like the thing that brings everyone together, which is sometimes 218 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: a clever name, but but mostly you just start by 219 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 1: doing it. And um, you know. One of the one 220 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,079 Speaker 1: of the ways that's longest standing that people can get 221 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 1: involved with locally or start locally, and there's a lot 222 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: of resources about how to do it is is Food 223 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: Not Bombs. Food Not Bombs is a a mutual aid 224 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: project that's existed and I wish I knew off the 225 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: top of my head since when I want to say, 226 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: the late seventies, but I really couldn't tell you. And 227 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: it's just food. It's just organizing food to give to 228 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: people in public. And it's actually wild how illegal it 229 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: is in some places, Like people get arrested for Food 230 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: No Bombs all the time in Florida in a couple 231 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: of other places. But yeah, we talked about them in 232 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: the first part of the season, because there have been 233 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: a couple of point. I don't think nationally the FBI 234 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: is talked about them as a terror threat, but like 235 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: in the Austin Field office, and I think one or 236 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 1: two other places they've been like discussed as a terrorist 237 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: threat for handing out food. I've had like helicopters flying 238 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: overhead and like riots around the corner and stuffed for 239 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: for handing out food with food ut bombs. Yeah, it's uh, 240 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 1: they missed the second half of the name. I guess, 241 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. I think maybe if 242 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: we were to create bombs, not food, we we might 243 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: not get as much police attention. But that's just a 244 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: seery Yeah, well what everyone says that we need food 245 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: and no one says this. No one would ever say this, 246 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: no one would ever believe this. But we need food 247 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:28,719 Speaker 1: and bombs. You food and bombs, yea, bombs for some 248 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: food for others. We don't judge. We provide explosives and 249 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: we provide food. Yeah, okay, So if you can, I 250 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: think if you can, you start by working, You figure 251 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: out what you're good at. You find a group of 252 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,079 Speaker 1: people that are interested in accomplishing the same thing who 253 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: maybe have similar skill sets or different skill sets, and 254 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: you figure out what you can do, and you start 255 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: doing it, and you organize calling people and being like, hey, 256 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: well you donate to us, or getting all your friends 257 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: together to give you stuff to to redistribute or whatever, right, 258 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: putting out calls on social media for things to redistribute. 259 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: You know, most structures start grassroots, and most of the 260 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: time they kind of tend to do best when they're 261 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: grassroots instead of becoming a little more codified. So, if possible, 262 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: do that. But if you're just you, um, sometimes tying 263 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: into existing organizations is a thing worth doing. And if 264 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: there's nothing locally, you can look at things a little 265 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: further away, or you can look at things that are 266 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: on maybe on a national level. But there's a lot 267 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: of dangers in joining existing organizations and structures, and I guess, 268 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: I guess I would say there's like three types of danger, 269 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: and one is that you talked about all the time. 270 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: And thanks for bringing into the leftist vocabulary the word grifter. 271 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:42,439 Speaker 1: I never heard anyone use the word grifter until your podcast. 272 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: It's the most important word in the American English for sure. 273 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: We live in a fucking grifter Republic. It's incredible and 274 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: we always have this isn't new, Yeah, but we need 275 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: more words because we also need the word for people 276 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: who are looking for useful idiots. And there's a lot 277 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 1: of social movie mints and not to be like I 278 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: I support the Left. I think that what we're attempting 279 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:05,959 Speaker 1: to do is very worthwhile, and I like us more 280 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: than the other side by a fair amount. But there's 281 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,079 Speaker 1: a lot of things that there's a lot of problems 282 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: with the Left, and one of them is that people 283 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: are looking either to just have you as a body 284 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: with no decision making power and no autonomy, which doesn't 285 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: actually build a better world because you're just stop being 286 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: a cog in their machine and become a cog in 287 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: our machine. Right. And then there's also people who are 288 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: kind of um looking for useful idiots canon fodder, like 289 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: people to hang around while they while they do stuff, 290 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: or you know, and I don't want to go to 291 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: hard bodies to stand out in front of cop shops sometimes, yeah, 292 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: and even like you know, even like movements that I 293 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: really care about that might do a lot of like 294 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: non violence of this obedience, although I don't I'm not 295 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: particularly I'm not passed this personally, but you know, it's 296 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: a very useful strategy non violence of these obedience. But 297 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: sometimes they're like, oh, you're young and new, lock your 298 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: self to this thing, get arrested. And I would definitely 299 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: say to people, don't get arrested on purpose at your 300 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: first actions, like, don't be anyone else's cannon fodder until 301 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: you feel like you are part of the decision making 302 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: and part of like like you really matter and like 303 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: then then don't um do dangerous things for other people's projects, 304 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: like the ship that states do that's so messed up 305 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: is is turn human bodies into resources that then get 306 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: sacrificed for unclear ends. Um, And unless you feel like 307 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: you have some sort of like there are times we're 308 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: being arrested is necessary and helpful, but unless unless you 309 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: feel you fully understand not just why you're doing it, 310 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: but also that like you you you're not being told 311 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: to do it, you have autonomy and like, I'm going 312 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: to do this thing that I know will end in 313 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: my arrest because I like, I don't know. That's probably 314 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: like I think most people in that position know this, 315 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: but I definitely have encountered some uncomfortable situations in the past, 316 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: I'm sure similar to once you Have, where it did 317 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: seem like people were kind of being pushed to take 318 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: that risk for reasons they didn't fully understand or in 319 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: a situation they didn't fully grock you know, yeah, which 320 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: which gets at one of the things that when I 321 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: talk about how I think this is the biggest problem, 322 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: not not the cannon fodder issue, but the getting people 323 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: involved is the biggest issue I think we currently face 324 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: because there's so many people who want to be involved 325 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: right now, because the world is even worse than usual 326 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 1: and um and it's hitting groups of people who haven't 327 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: been hit by before. And people are often also looking 328 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: for a sense of community. And there's a thing that 329 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: people we don't talk about enough when people are getting involved. 330 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: There's two different reasons people get involved, and both are 331 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: entirely valid, and one is to fix things and another 332 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: is to find to break of the isolation that they 333 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: live in in their daily lives. Um and we need 334 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:06,400 Speaker 1: to be aware of that when we talk about how 335 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: to onboard people, and we need to be aware about that. 336 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 1: If you are getting involved, you should think about your 337 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: own desires. Are you looking for community and if so, 338 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: you can find it within radical action, right. Um. But 339 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: if you are doing that, then you especially need to 340 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: be on guard against peer pressure because it's a really 341 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: easy way to feel like you're involved with things is 342 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: to go hang out with people who are all doing 343 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:35,479 Speaker 1: a really scary thing. And and that's beautiful. And I 344 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: absolutely did that when I when I first got involved 345 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 1: in anarchism, I I and politics in general. I I 346 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: joined in head first, and you know, spend a night 347 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:47,919 Speaker 1: in jail within the first couple of months, and I 348 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: don't have any particular regrets about that. And I found 349 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 1: community in a way that I had never had in 350 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: my life because of how isolated our society is. But 351 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: that's not the only reason to to go do these 352 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: and that is I mean, I think a lot of 353 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 1: people experienced that last year during the George Floyd protests. 354 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: It's the kind of I mean, it's the thing we've 355 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: talked about on in the first season. If it could 356 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: happen here that times like that this war does this too, 357 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: can actually provide meaning that that people have lacked. And 358 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:21,160 Speaker 1: a lot of it is that community that like community 359 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: of sufferers, the trauma bonding um that feels like the 360 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: most important thing, even because maybe it is the most 361 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: important thing you've ever done. I think in a lot 362 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: of cases it is. Um. But that's also mind altering 363 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: and it um. It can lead to situations that are 364 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: not entirely dissimilar to cults. UM. I'm not saying that 365 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: they are cults, because cults are number one. With cult 366 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: there's generally going to be like a leader and a 367 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: in such but like, there are things that happened that 368 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: that draw people into cults that are just human things, 369 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: their aspects in some cases, as I've said before, of 370 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,159 Speaker 1: like a good party, um. But there are cults like 371 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: aspects to the kind of groups that form in these 372 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: traumatic situations that can lead people to start making really 373 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: poor decisions. UM. And and so you have to really 374 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:10,719 Speaker 1: you always have to be kind of analyzing not just 375 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: what you're doing, but what's going on in your own head, 376 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: in the head of the heads of the people around you. UM. 377 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,360 Speaker 1: That's that's just always important. But I think particularly when 378 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: you're when you're trying to do something new and different 379 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, bigger than anything you've done before. 380 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: Do you have any specific advice for like kind of 381 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:37,360 Speaker 1: avoiding the cults of personality that sometimes form in new organizations. Yeah, 382 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 1: so you have both informal and formal structures can both 383 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,159 Speaker 1: cause problems with cult of personality. There are these brilliant 384 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:45,959 Speaker 1: essays that I haven't read like twenty years that come 385 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,360 Speaker 1: from the feminist movement, and one of them is called 386 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: the Tyranny of structural Lessness. And as best as I remember, 387 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: these are very short essays. As best I remember, the 388 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 1: Tyranny of structurallessness says, if you don't have a formal 389 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 1: structure in your organization, you're going to have this informal 390 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: leader who basically tells everyone to do and that's a 391 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 1: problem and and it's a very important piece, and I 392 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: believe it comes from a Marxist feminist perspective, but I'm 393 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 1: not certain. And then there was an anarchist feminist response 394 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: around the same time, maybe I'm not sure, called the 395 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: Tyranny of tyranny that was like, yes, that's true. And 396 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: also when you have a formal structure and put someone 397 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: in charge there in charge, and that has other problems too. 398 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: And I think that it's just we we have to 399 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: be aware of both of these things. That, um, you 400 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 1: know the fact that most movements are very decentralized in 401 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: grassroots as as huge advantages, right, but it does have 402 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: problems of causing informal cults of personality. Um. Podcasting is 403 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,679 Speaker 1: a big part of this problem. Um. And actually, I 404 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 1: really appreciate that you're not an organizer like frankly, And 405 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: it's part of why I'm not an organizer on some 406 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: level is because when people read the books that someone 407 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 1: writes or listen to someone's voice all the time, it 408 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:02,439 Speaker 1: is very influential, right, And being aware of that and 409 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: therefore not exerting that power is a very good thing. Um. 410 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: And but there's okay, so the other thing, like when 411 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: I worry about like people getting involved with like don't 412 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: get peer pressured into stuff when you first join. There's 413 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: also this thing that is needs to be talked about 414 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 1: and maybe I'll have talked about this some previously, but entrapment. 415 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: Entrapment is a huge problem, and specifically the FEDS tend 416 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: to look for young idealist activists who can be peer 417 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: pressured into actions that they may or may not have 418 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 1: otherwise ideologically agreed with, like hey, let's go blow up 419 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:44,160 Speaker 1: a bridge or let's go blow up a damn and 420 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: and this doesn't just happen to the left. It happens 421 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: m oh, yeah, it's all around. Yeah for sure. Like 422 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: there's that case of the guys who are trying to 423 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: kidnap the governor of was it Michigan. A lot of 424 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: that was informants who were there's a lot there's You 425 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: can debate heavily whether or not it was entrapment. Obviously, 426 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: what we we might consider entrapment morally often isn't entrapment 427 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: legally because the FBI does know where the lines are legally, 428 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean it isn't morally entrapment, right, And 429 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: they do that a lot, and they usually succeed um, well, 430 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: they may not usually succeeded, though they usually succeeded the case, 431 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:30,199 Speaker 1: and entrapment defenses are hard to succeed with. And so really, 432 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: just like an thinking about it, I think developing your 433 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: own moral compass and sticking to it is one of 434 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: the single most important things that a new activist can 435 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: can do. And not to be afraid of radical action 436 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: necessarily like militant action, but but be wary of it. 437 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 1: Um But then again, I mean in terms of like 438 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: being wary of what the other thing to avoid doing 439 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,160 Speaker 1: is like accusing each other like fed jacketing, like being like, oh, 440 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: well that person is doing the same thing a FED 441 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: might do, like wink wink. You know. Um, it's a 442 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 1: really complicated an annoying game to play, and if you're 443 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: just getting involved, you're gonna have to learn how to 444 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 1: get it play this game of not fed jacketing and 445 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 1: also not um falling into stuff. And it's annoying because 446 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: you probably have to kind of learn some of the stuff, 447 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: even if all you want to do is give away blankets. 448 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 1: You know, if you want to tie what you're doing 449 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: to a larger ideological structure, then it's going to come 450 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: up that you need to be aware of how repression 451 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 1: applies to that larger ideological structure. Yeah, like all this 452 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:44,360 Speaker 1: is very useful specifically if you're trying to find something 453 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: kind of pre existing um or you know, looking you know, 454 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: or you know, starting something in the bigger city where 455 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 1: you have like connections can be made to other existing organizations. 456 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: And I'm trying to think, you know, there's a lot 457 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: of people who live in more like rural areas. It's 458 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: not much like a liberal or like, you know, especially 459 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: left is kind of slubculture. How would how would you 460 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: recommend people who live in those kind of scenarios try 461 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: to start building this community. Woudn't say like they only 462 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: have like a few friends? Um, what what steps do 463 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: you think people can take if they have more, you know, 464 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 1: a secluded set up? So it is harder. And I 465 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,360 Speaker 1: live in a red area close to a blue area, right, 466 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: And I do most of my organizing and as much 467 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: as I do organizing within the the nearby small hippie city, 468 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 1: even though theoretically the thing that I care the most 469 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: about is connections to my immediate neighbors. Right. Um, that 470 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: is harder, And it is harder for a lot of 471 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: different reasons, especially if you have cultural differences between you 472 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: and the people that you're around. Right, Like I'm a 473 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 1: trans woman and I've live around a lot of like 474 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: farms and stuff, right And and previously this wasn't a 475 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: problem before Trump, This what kind just wasn't a problem 476 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 1: after Trump. Now, all of a sudden, the fact that 477 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: I'm trans as like an attack against people in a 478 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: way that it never used to be. And and so 479 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: now they all have an opinion about the fact that 480 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: we're an address. But still at the end of the day, 481 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,719 Speaker 1: I would say that most of the people that I'm 482 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 1: around are actually totally chill. Like there's a vocal minority 483 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: of really horrid people, right, um. But even the people 484 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: who might be and might have even like voted for 485 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: Trump or whatever, um, are not necessarily, at least along 486 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 1: my own identity lines. Also white are not necessarily going 487 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: to give me ship. And you know, I can go 488 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 1: talk to them in address and they might be sort 489 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 1: of confused, and they might not be. But if you 490 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,719 Speaker 1: have more culturally in common with the people around you, 491 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: then there is a lot of room that you can 492 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: start working on from there. And this actually ties into 493 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: something that I think applies to people across the board, 494 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: which is we have this especially new activists, but also 495 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: including people who've been in it for a long time. 496 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: And this like real arrogance about the fact that we're 497 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: like right, And when you want to change the world, 498 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: you need a certain amount of arrogance, need a certain 499 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 1: amount of like I mean, I literally believe we need 500 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,439 Speaker 1: to not have a government or capitalism, and these are 501 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,360 Speaker 1: very major changes to our existing structure, just a huge 502 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,400 Speaker 1: amount of arrogance to that. Although not having a government 503 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: is slightly less of a major change now than it 504 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: was a couple of years ago. It's true, and also 505 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: like something like sometimes, actually it's funny. I used that 506 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: it more in common with these neighbors, but then all 507 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: the libertarians went, goddamn authoritarian. That bummed the funk out 508 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: of me. Yeah, there's there's some good ones still. There's 509 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: like again, there's the there's the there's the taking your 510 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: private plane and do a disaster area libertarians and God 511 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: bless him totally, And you know, they're like, they just 512 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: don't want them. You know. It's like my dad is 513 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: sort of on the libertarian side of things and keeps 514 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: twenty dollar bills and the visor of his truck to 515 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: give to people flying signs, and he just doesn't want 516 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: the government redistributing his money. He doesn't mind redistributing his money. Yeah, 517 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: And I'm like, all right, I don't have any real 518 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: objection to that. He's also no longer anyway. If you 519 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 1: come at people with this attitude of like I'm right 520 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 1: and you're wrong, the kind of people that you can 521 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: get to join your side by saying I'm right and 522 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 1: you're wrong are not the people you want. You want 523 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: people who challenge authority, including the authority of people who 524 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:19,160 Speaker 1: claim there should be authority, and and so just actually 525 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: listening to people and like hearing people out and um, 526 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: when possible, avoiding drawing lines between people is one of 527 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: the main ways to connect with people across either cultural 528 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: divides or especially political divides. And this this can't always happen, right, 529 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: Like I walk down the street and address and someone 530 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: like called me a bad word, Like I'm not going 531 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: to be like, I understand why you think to call 532 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: me that, And I understand how like me dressed this 533 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 1: way kind of challenges your sense of masculinity that you've 534 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 1: been brought up into is the only way that you 535 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: can hold yourself strong in a very hard world. No, 536 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: I don't do that. I um scream funck you and 537 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: chase them. Um, I would ever chase anyone with a knife. 538 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 1: I think that's not legal, So I wouldn't do that, 539 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: but um, you know that might work. And you know, 540 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 1: like fun those people, I don't care what they have 541 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: to say. No, of course not. And it when I 542 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: think one of the things that I don't know twitter 543 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: brain has done is that like when you when you 544 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: talk about reaching out and talking to people who you know, 545 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: don't agree with you, aren't aren't on your side ideologically, 546 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: there's folks who will kind of assume, like, oh, so 547 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: you're saying I should like try to be friendly with 548 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: people who would have murder me. Like, No, I'm not 549 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 1: saying that. I'm not saying that, like, as a transperson 550 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: or black person, you should go talk to um, a 551 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: militant anti LGBT activist or a fucking klansman or something. 552 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: I'm saying that, like, that's not within the broad I'm 553 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: saying what you need to recognize. But what I think 554 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: is important to recognize, especially if you're when we talk 555 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: about like post you know, collapse or whatever, is that 556 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: within broad political tendency. So I'm not talking about like 557 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: fascist or whatever, but I'm talking about like liberal, role conservative, progressive, 558 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: very broad political tendencies. You have roughly the same percentage 559 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: of people who are ship. So in an anarchist group, 560 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: the amount of people who are shitty is going to 561 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: be similar to the amount of the general population that 562 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: are shitty. It's the same with every political tendency. But 563 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: the corollary to that is, again within broad tendencies, you'll 564 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: find roughly the same amount of people who are basically 565 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: rad and maybe yeah, there's some they have their brain 566 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,719 Speaker 1: got poisoned with dis info and they believe some stupid 567 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: shit and they vote like an asshole. But you know, 568 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: they'll stop their car if they see someone in an accident, 569 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: and they keep a fucking medical kit in their bag, 570 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: and you know there that it's the it's the it's 571 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: the ship that you know. I talk a lot about this, 572 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: the stabbing on the Portland Max train. Well, the two 573 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: people who who died confronting that asshole. Um, we're a 574 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: republican retired veteran and a far left social justice activist 575 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: and they both you know, put their bodies on the lines. 576 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: I think that like when we talk about like being 577 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: willing to kind of talk with people who are who 578 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: are not on the same ideological boat as you, that's 579 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: that's what I mean. Not you should make nice with 580 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: the people who want to exterminate you, like suck those people. Yeah, 581 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: because the thing you're looking for, the thing I'm looking 582 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 1: for is the Republican who's going to, hopefully, instead of 583 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: dying to saw alongside me, successfully defeat the you know, 584 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: actual far right person. But yeah, yeah, totally and and 585 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: I think that that actually is part of the It's 586 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: not always the answer for every person who's isolated, right, 587 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,959 Speaker 1: everyone who's socially isolated, but it is part of it. 588 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: If you're trying to organize with people where you say 589 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: you're the only leftist or the only anarchist in your area, 590 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: then maybe you don't start. And this is actually funny. 591 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: I'm very into being very public about my political ideology 592 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: so that people know what bias is UM coming into 593 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: things with. But but maybe you don't start your rural 594 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 1: Mutuo aid project calling it the Rural Mutuo Aid Project, 595 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: or maybe you do, and maybe you you just start 596 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: doing it and you find people who are willing to 597 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: have the same goals and means as you, and and 598 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: I think you can do alongside of that, you can 599 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 1: also just be really public about what you believe. I mean, 600 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: you know, um again, as an anarchist, I end up 601 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: working with like church groups and things that I don't 602 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: necessarily agree with on a lot of a lot of things. 603 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: But they're not mad when I'm like, oh, I'm an anarchist, 604 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: They're just like, huh, okay, I'm a church person or 605 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: what you know, and like Okay, I'm not. I don't 606 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: expect different of them, and they don't expect different of me. 607 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: And we we know what we have in common and 608 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 1: what we don't to a certain degree, and then we 609 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: work on what we have in common and so airing 610 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: and so this is both true if you're within the 611 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: movement and you're hoping to try and solve this problem 612 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: for other people. But I also think it's going to 613 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: be true for people who are trying to build things 614 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: in areas where they don't have, where they don't feel 615 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: like the part of something larger is airing on the 616 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: side of inclusion versus exclusion and not And like you're 617 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: talking about, it's about airing on the side of not 618 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: always include everyone, not always committing to a hard and 619 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: fast rules out. Yeah, totally. Yeah, be be open to 620 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: the fact that people can surprise you in ways that 621 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: aren't terrifying. Yeah. Also, because you get terrified enough by 622 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: enough like people who you think are on your side 623 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: that you're like, oh, yeah, I'm sad you all don'to 624 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: the the ad pivots in this show, because you can 625 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: do it. We can do it, we can yea, we 626 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 1: can cut it in During one of the long awkward pauses. 627 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: Go for it, and we'll keep all this up to 628 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: it in, but we'll actually cut the actual so you'll 629 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: hear it. It's like Finnigan's Wake. You're going to hear 630 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,719 Speaker 1: it out of order, okay, And I hopefully you all 631 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: be able to figure out the second half of it, 632 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: but the first. The first half is anyone who claims 633 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: to have all the answers is selling you something. Oh 634 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: uh huh yeah, oh oh you know who else is 635 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: selling you something? Is that the ads go listen to 636 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: the Guico Geico or or Jesus. We've had some bad 637 00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 1: ones lately. Um, there's that s os Cuba show that 638 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: sounds we're rough. Uh. There was that one that was 639 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: just like God. It was just like this is the 640 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: concept of we are sponsored by God. I think I've 641 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: gotten like Walmart and McDonald's on your show before. Remember 642 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: it's the people's food. Oh yeah, organized actually try to 643 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: organize around the Walmart. That could be very so. Anyway, 644 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: here's ads. If someone is trying to start something new 645 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: inside one of these more secluded areas and like they 646 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: have decided like yeah, I'm willing to do something. I'm 647 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: willing to actually just like start it. How how would 648 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: you recommend they try to figure out what some of 649 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: the like biggest needs of the community are that they 650 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: can actually tackle, Like how how does someone find out 651 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: what to do with their mutual aid because they can 652 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: like commit like, yeah, I can do something around supply, 653 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: something around this, you know, whatever we like. How does 654 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: one try to actually gauge what is trying to tackle? 655 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: I guess it depends on whether you feel like you're 656 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,719 Speaker 1: totally Like if in my head, if I'm totally inside 657 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: a nun Assie community, but an area, right, I probably 658 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: kind of know because I'm also experiencing whatever the thing is. 659 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: But if I'm if I'm a little bit detached from it, 660 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 1: then I do need to like do kind of you know. 661 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: The sort of traditional method is I think it's called 662 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 1: listening projects. I've never actually personally done a listening project. 663 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: I've been around many people who do. Where you basically 664 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,399 Speaker 1: like sometimes you go door to door and you're like, hey, 665 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,319 Speaker 1: what's up, Like what do you need? Like what's going on? 666 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: You know? Um, But like say, for example, in the 667 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 1: area that I live, there is a a rural organizing. 668 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 1: It's not the actual rural organizing project, which is a 669 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: specific structure. But there is a rural mutual aid group 670 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: in the largely red area that I live in that's 671 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: run by by leftists and they, I think that largely 672 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 1: they did a lot of like firewood delivery, for example, 673 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,280 Speaker 1: because a lot of the areas around here are heated 674 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 1: by woodstove. And you have a lot of poverty in 675 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 1: rural areas. And of course poverty looks very different in 676 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: rural areas versus urban areas. And you know, one of 677 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 1: the advantages of being rural poor. There's many disadvantages, like 678 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,759 Speaker 1: lack of access to certain types of services, right, Um, 679 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 1: But one of the sometimes advantages of rural poverty, as 680 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,839 Speaker 1: I understand it, I'm not specifically an expert, um, is 681 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: do you have space? Right? You just don't have stuff 682 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,760 Speaker 1: for money, and so you can have stuff if people 683 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 1: give you stuff, so you can like story your firewood 684 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 1: and so. And then also because it's this very specific 685 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 1: tangible thing, people can get really excited about, like, oh, 686 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 1: I can chop firewood, or maybe even I can't chop 687 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 1: firewood because my legs busted because I work in the 688 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: paper mill or whatever, but I can. But I got 689 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: a trailer on my truck, you know, um, and I 690 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,439 Speaker 1: can haul that. And people get really excited when there's 691 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,799 Speaker 1: like things that they specifically are good at, especially things 692 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:53,760 Speaker 1: that I kind of have alienated them from other people 693 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: that they're that they're good at, that they can then 694 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,919 Speaker 1: participate in. And so, which isn't totally answer your question, 695 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 1: but I would say if anyone specifically is in a 696 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,399 Speaker 1: rural situation is looking to start a mutual a group, 697 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: look at the Rural Organizing Project. Yes, I don't believe 698 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: that they specifically do rural mutual aid organizing, but they 699 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,879 Speaker 1: talk a lot about what it means to be an 700 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,319 Speaker 1: organizer within areas that are largely controlled by the far right, 701 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 1: but are not. It's not like the people are all 702 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,279 Speaker 1: far right, they're just controlled by the far right, you know. Yeah, 703 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: the people actually there, once you talk to them, might 704 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 1: actually be a lot more reasonable than like the media 705 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,399 Speaker 1: influencers who are part of this you know, same thing. Yeah, 706 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: and it is. It is one of those things. This 707 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 1: is a topic we're drifting too. But it's when we 708 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,799 Speaker 1: drift to regularly on this show, we're like, when I 709 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 1: talk with conservatives, it's it's not uncommon that I can 710 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: without especially if I don't start by mentioning anarchy, I 711 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,319 Speaker 1: can get them to agree to a lot of the 712 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,919 Speaker 1: things I believe, which is like, yeah, maybe people don't 713 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: need to be governed. Maybe that doesn't work out good. 714 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: Maybe uh, politicians are corrupt and should have less power, 715 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: And like that doesn't mean that you're gonna you're gonna 716 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 1: get them on the barricades with you. Um, because any 717 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 1: productive kind of relationship starts from like a base of 718 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: shared interests and it's not a useless endeavor to engage 719 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: in kind of trying to subtly. You know, if you 720 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: if you feel out people around you who are ideologically 721 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 1: not particularly similar to you, but also decent people, Um, 722 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 1: you can kind of try and work in some some 723 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,400 Speaker 1: something you've not not just some common ground, but you 724 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,760 Speaker 1: can try and get them to see that they agree 725 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 1: with you one more than they think, um, and that 726 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 1: that has an effect of changing the way people think 727 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: about the world. It really does. Yeah, and you but 728 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 1: you also have to go into it open to yes, 729 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 1: maybe maybe it's not going to change your opinion about 730 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: the way the economy should be structured or the way 731 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 1: that sure works, right, but you know, you definitely have 732 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: to go into it with a I can now understand 733 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 1: why you drive a big pickup truck that burns a 734 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,239 Speaker 1: lot of gas or whatever whatever thing. You might be 735 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 1: coming into it thinking yeah, or at least it might 736 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,320 Speaker 1: help you understand why they believe or do certain things 737 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:19,240 Speaker 1: outside of you know, Dave Reuben broke their brain because 738 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,720 Speaker 1: they got on YouTube at the wrong time. I don't know, Margaret, 739 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:24,439 Speaker 1: did you have anything else you wanted to really get into. 740 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 1: I guess to. One of the other questions that you 741 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,440 Speaker 1: all brought up was about preparedness, like maybe kind of 742 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: almost in the inverse situation where let's say that you 743 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 1: live in a small apartment and you want to be 744 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: prepared and in which case maybe you have better access 745 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:40,919 Speaker 1: to community. Maybe you don't write a lot of people 746 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 1: who live in the city are just as isolated socially 747 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 1: as people elsewhere, But at least you kind of have, 748 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 1: like there's a little bit more easy access to ways 749 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,759 Speaker 1: to break out of certain types of isolation if you 750 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: put work into it, because there's more likely to be 751 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 1: groups around that are that are public that you can 752 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:01,279 Speaker 1: go interface with. Um. But in terms of like actual preparedness, 753 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,359 Speaker 1: you have the inverse problem, right of if you live 754 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,919 Speaker 1: rural you might have room to store beans and rice, 755 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,320 Speaker 1: and if you live in the city you might not write. Um, 756 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 1: but I I will say it's the other thing that 757 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,359 Speaker 1: I find people The two things that people talk to 758 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 1: me about I think you all run into also is 759 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 1: that people are either I don't have any community or 760 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 1: I don't have any money in space. Yeah. And so 761 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,120 Speaker 1: if you don't have any money in space, I mean, 762 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:28,719 Speaker 1: I mean in some ways, it's like, well, maybe your 763 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,360 Speaker 1: focus isn't like stockpiling stuff. Stockpiling and stuff is like 764 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:37,080 Speaker 1: the single most overrated part of individual or community preparedness. Um. 765 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 1: I mean I do it, but you know it's because 766 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: I M my brain works that way. Um. But also 767 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,800 Speaker 1: the level of like stuff that you might be looking 768 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 1: for might be a lot less than like, like you know, 769 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,759 Speaker 1: it's like prepper media is filled with like here's how 770 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:58,319 Speaker 1: to build a bunk or under your pool, and I'm like, what, Yeah, 771 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: there's there's so many levels mean, somebody other things that 772 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 1: you should be doing before you go to that stitch. Yeah. Yeah, 773 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:07,279 Speaker 1: I mean, like, don't get me wrong, if I had 774 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,239 Speaker 1: a pool, I'd be stoked. And if I had absolutely, 775 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 1: I'd be even more stoked. I'd be so happy. Yeah. 776 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,160 Speaker 1: But but you know what it's like, it's the first 777 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,719 Speaker 1: five gallon bucket of like dried food you store is 778 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,839 Speaker 1: far and away more important than the tent, right, and like, 779 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:29,600 Speaker 1: so just having a five gallon jerry can ful of 780 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,279 Speaker 1: water so that you're like, you know, what, if the 781 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 1: water turns off or we have a boil advisory, which 782 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:38,719 Speaker 1: happens all the time, I'm good for a couple of days, right, 783 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 1: Because most of the time people think about preparedness as like, 784 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,200 Speaker 1: I'm preparing for the end times, and usually what it 785 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,800 Speaker 1: is is the end times are real slow and chunky 786 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:51,279 Speaker 1: and crumbles, that's the word. Um. And so you're just 787 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 1: really looking to like smooth out interruptions, and a lot 788 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 1: of that can be done very cheaply and honestly, when 789 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,759 Speaker 1: when you start storing your fifth five gallon jerry can 790 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,279 Speaker 1: of water, you're not storying it for you anymore. You're 791 00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,760 Speaker 1: storying it for your neighbor. Yea, yeah, And that's good, 792 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,279 Speaker 1: but not exactly not the first step, you know. Yeah, 793 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,040 Speaker 1: it's it's better to prepare for if you have like 794 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,480 Speaker 1: a week's worth of power outages or a week's worth 795 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,000 Speaker 1: of the water not working right, And those are more 796 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,400 Speaker 1: incremental steps because we're not just gonna drop off and 797 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,479 Speaker 1: have no water forever starting in a month, right, Probably not, 798 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:25,120 Speaker 1: but we mean very like there's gonna be there's enough 799 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,040 Speaker 1: remaining systems that that they want to fix it. You know, 800 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 1: it's more likely that some some disasters gonna happen that 801 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,400 Speaker 1: we're gonna have, you know, a week worth of stuff gone, 802 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,600 Speaker 1: you know, and that's the thing that's actually more more 803 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 1: reasonable to prep for. Yeah, that makes sense. Um, well, Margaret, 804 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,520 Speaker 1: where can Where can the good people and hopefully not 805 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,000 Speaker 1: the bad people, but statistically some of them will suck 806 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: find you? Um, the good people can find me on 807 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:57,560 Speaker 1: I have a podcast called Like the World Is Dying, 808 00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 1: which they can listen to you on if they would like, 809 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,560 Speaker 1: and it's about individual community preparedness. I also am on 810 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,719 Speaker 1: Twitter way too much, at Magpie kill Joy, Instagram, at 811 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 1: Margaret Killjoy, my websites Birds before the Storm dot net 812 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,680 Speaker 1: or Margaret Killjoy dot com and that has like a 813 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 1: list of all the books that I have out And 814 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,839 Speaker 1: I have a new book, an old book being reissued 815 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,239 Speaker 1: that is coming out in November from a k Press. 816 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,319 Speaker 1: The book is called A Country of Ghosts and it's 817 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 1: an anarchist utopian book because I was sick of people 818 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 1: being like but how would an anarchist society work? And 819 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, I wrote a book, 820 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: damn straight. Um. It also has a plot, so it's 821 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:41,879 Speaker 1: not fancy kind of bougie with yours. If you write 822 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:46,720 Speaker 1: a plot, you get the wall. Plots allowed only post 823 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,160 Speaker 1: structural literature. Well, okay, so this has actually happened to 824 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:57,840 Speaker 1: anarchist fiction writers before Buds of Mara was this anarchist 825 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:02,680 Speaker 1: fiction writer. Um oh, I can't remember where from I'm 826 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,280 Speaker 1: gonna this is terribly embarrassing. But he moved to England 827 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:11,719 Speaker 1: from a colonized African country. Uma, what did Rhodesia become? 828 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,839 Speaker 1: This is the most embarrassing. So it became a Zimbabwe right, Okay? Yeah, yeah, 829 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,880 Speaker 1: so he was from there and then everyone and he 830 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,719 Speaker 1: moved to London until he realized that they're a bunch 831 00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 1: of racists and he would like breaksh it at awards 832 00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,759 Speaker 1: ceremonies and then go back home. But he was a 833 00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:28,760 Speaker 1: squatter for a while in the eighties, but he wasn't 834 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 1: writing in the proper post colonial like Marxist realist tradition, 835 00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,520 Speaker 1: because instead he was writing postmodern fiction, which is stuck, 836 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 1: get it and terrible. So he just like was like, 837 00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:44,440 Speaker 1: I don't care, and so he's great. That is that 838 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:50,400 Speaker 1: is anyway, I love to see it. Um, that's the episode. 839 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:59,160 Speaker 1: That's the episode go out and right, postmodern destruc jump 840 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,279 Speaker 1: on a train. But that too, Yeah, probably also a 841 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,279 Speaker 1: bad idea. I talked to somebody who lost their legs 842 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:21,840 Speaker 1: doing that once. Anyway, episodes over welcome this is it 843 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:26,080 Speaker 1: could happen here daily. Uh. This week we are focusing 844 00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,319 Speaker 1: on different ways to actually start doing things. You know, 845 00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,560 Speaker 1: we've talked a lot about ideas, and we like you know, 846 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:36,399 Speaker 1: made some broad recommendations um and you know, had people 847 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,959 Speaker 1: on to give specific insights and you know, different things. 848 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,600 Speaker 1: But we're trying to focus this week and then you 849 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:44,879 Speaker 1: know more in the future. Is like, if you're brand 850 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,080 Speaker 1: new to this sort of thing, how to actually start 851 00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,080 Speaker 1: doing stuff. And one of the things we talked about 852 00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,080 Speaker 1: a lot is a lot of almost everyone we've interviewed 853 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,520 Speaker 1: has mentioned us at some point that trying to get 854 00:44:55,520 --> 00:45:00,279 Speaker 1: more active in the things you're consuming and the things 855 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 1: that you're eating. And one of the ways to do 856 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:06,400 Speaker 1: that is by just literally growing your own food. I 857 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,960 Speaker 1: went when I was growing up, I mean my grandparents operate, 858 00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:12,400 Speaker 1: I mean like they stop right like like like like 859 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,080 Speaker 1: a large, large farm. Now they operate kind of like 860 00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:18,120 Speaker 1: a farm that just like feeds them. So whenever I'm 861 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,000 Speaker 1: at my grandparents in Canada, usually we you know, we 862 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:22,840 Speaker 1: just eat all the food they grow, whether that be 863 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,200 Speaker 1: like produce. Um. They also do like their own hunting, 864 00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,240 Speaker 1: They make their own sausage, like you know, they preserve meats. 865 00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,160 Speaker 1: So like, I kind of grew up around this type 866 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:36,719 Speaker 1: of thing because just how self reliant some of my 867 00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,799 Speaker 1: family is. But not everyone may have this kind of background, 868 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:41,879 Speaker 1: and so you know, this idea of growing your own 869 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,799 Speaker 1: food can feel maybe a little bit daunting. Um. And 870 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,560 Speaker 1: to help us talk about food and then eventually soil 871 00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:52,479 Speaker 1: and other kind of things, I have invited a guest 872 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:57,000 Speaker 1: on from another kind of podcast in this that operates 873 00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,600 Speaker 1: in the same rough, rough framework, I would say, probably 874 00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 1: are how to how to kind of slowly improve improve 875 00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:07,480 Speaker 1: the world? Um uh do I won't explain who you 876 00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,840 Speaker 1: are and what's your what your what your project is? Sure? 877 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,040 Speaker 1: So my name is Andy. I'm the post of The 878 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:18,360 Speaker 1: Poor Pole's Almanac. We're a podcast that's focused on thinking 879 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,560 Speaker 1: about after collapse, how do we things like climate change 880 00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,560 Speaker 1: and collapse impact things like food systems, and what can 881 00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:30,720 Speaker 1: we do today to prepare for what's coming in the future. Yeah, 882 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,239 Speaker 1: I feel like it's not not a coincidence that all 883 00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:39,400 Speaker 1: of these different kind of projects are getting more popular 884 00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,640 Speaker 1: around the same time, because we're looking at the world 885 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:45,120 Speaker 1: and being like, huh, this doesn't seem very sustainable, so 886 00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,839 Speaker 1: we better we better start figuring out what to do 887 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:52,640 Speaker 1: with all these systems kind of slowly, you know, start 888 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,439 Speaker 1: losing parts. I want to talk about kind of food today. 889 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,160 Speaker 1: I want to want to maybe branch off into like 890 00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:02,160 Speaker 1: a few different directions. Branch that's a plant plant plant 891 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:06,960 Speaker 1: pun um, what a branch off in a few different directions, 892 00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:08,759 Speaker 1: both like you know, what do you do if you 893 00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:10,759 Speaker 1: have like your own house and yard, or maybe you're 894 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,080 Speaker 1: like more ruled you have lots of space, and then 895 00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:15,319 Speaker 1: also kind of the inverse of like let's say you 896 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,280 Speaker 1: lived in, like I don know, a cramped city apartment. 897 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,640 Speaker 1: Different things that you can do. Let's probably start with 898 00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:21,839 Speaker 1: like the rule just to like give a you know, 899 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,200 Speaker 1: a more like base background. You know, you have more 900 00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:27,399 Speaker 1: of like a standard set up for what you're able 901 00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:31,320 Speaker 1: to do. If someone's never grown anything before, they've never 902 00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:33,680 Speaker 1: like maybe they've had like one house plant, but like 903 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:36,480 Speaker 1: they've never grown anything. What what do you think is 904 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,480 Speaker 1: the best first like preparation steps before you actually you know, 905 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,080 Speaker 1: go and start buying seeds and stuff. Sure, so when 906 00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:46,719 Speaker 1: it comes to growing food, it's really not that complicated. 907 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,520 Speaker 1: Chances are if you have a front yard we're talking 908 00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,880 Speaker 1: about someplace that's pretty rural, assuming that climate is in 909 00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,839 Speaker 1: someplace super dry, you're generally going to be thinking about 910 00:47:55,880 --> 00:48:00,520 Speaker 1: growing food someplace where grass probably already grows. So if 911 00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:02,719 Speaker 1: grass is already grown there, you know things can grow there. 912 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,960 Speaker 1: And really that's that's as simple as it can be. 913 00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,040 Speaker 1: It can be more complicated. We can start talking about 914 00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:13,080 Speaker 1: things like soil pH and nutrients and all of these 915 00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,560 Speaker 1: other things, but really, when it comes down to it, 916 00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:17,120 Speaker 1: if you put a seed in the ground and the 917 00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,080 Speaker 1: temperature is not too warm or cold, and it gets 918 00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,600 Speaker 1: rained but not too much rain, the plant's going to grow. 919 00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:26,840 Speaker 1: And if you've got some say a couple of acres, 920 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:28,759 Speaker 1: and you want to cut out a little section of 921 00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,760 Speaker 1: it to grow some food. Uh that that's as simple 922 00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,880 Speaker 1: as it really can be. And you can go to 923 00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,120 Speaker 1: whatever store and buy seats. So like that, that's a 924 00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:41,080 Speaker 1: good place to start. And obviously depending on where you live, 925 00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,319 Speaker 1: you want to think about things like lead in the 926 00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,400 Speaker 1: in the soil if you live someplace near an old house, 927 00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,400 Speaker 1: or maybe if you're near some place where there was manufacturing. 928 00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:51,680 Speaker 1: And one of the things to keep in mind is 929 00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,560 Speaker 1: that a lot of older settlements, even if there isn't 930 00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:57,960 Speaker 1: a factory there now, it's very possible there was a 931 00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:02,080 Speaker 1: factory years ago it's been demoed and you never even 932 00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:04,359 Speaker 1: knew was there. So it's really important if you do 933 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,719 Speaker 1: live in someplace that has that manufacturing background or an 934 00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:10,120 Speaker 1: old house to really check for things like lead in 935 00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:14,120 Speaker 1: the soil because that can be really dangerous. And there's yeah, 936 00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:18,880 Speaker 1: a very accessible like soil testing kits available that stares 937 00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:21,880 Speaker 1: on online. Okay, yeah, it's like I think fifteen dollars. 938 00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,839 Speaker 1: You can have soil sample taken and you can find 939 00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:28,160 Speaker 1: out everything that's in it, just like the pH and 940 00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,759 Speaker 1: you know if it's too acidic and things like that. 941 00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,719 Speaker 1: So yeah, you you figure out you want to you 942 00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:36,040 Speaker 1: want to start growing stuff you have you have some space, 943 00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:37,920 Speaker 1: whether it be like a front yard or maybe like 944 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,480 Speaker 1: even like an open field if you're lucky, Um, what 945 00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,040 Speaker 1: kind of what kind of stuff do you think? You know? 946 00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:46,840 Speaker 1: Should I just jump in and buy any kind of 947 00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,440 Speaker 1: seed that looks fun, or should I like start with 948 00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,040 Speaker 1: specific things. I don't know. It's like if I really 949 00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:53,960 Speaker 1: like potatoes, or just go to potatoes, if I really 950 00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,600 Speaker 1: like cauliflowers, just to cauliflower. What's kind of the if 951 00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:59,759 Speaker 1: I'm brand new, what's the different things that would be 952 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:03,759 Speaker 1: wor first drawing out? So generally speaking, you really want 953 00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:07,560 Speaker 1: to think about what your climate is and I think 954 00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:09,480 Speaker 1: that's one of the things that gets missed a lot 955 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:10,840 Speaker 1: of times as you want to grow things. So like 956 00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,399 Speaker 1: I live in New England, growing say, watermelon is really 957 00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,000 Speaker 1: a challenge in a lot of ways because you have 958 00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:19,360 Speaker 1: to think about the length of my season versus the 959 00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,359 Speaker 1: length it takes for a watermelon to be a full 960 00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,640 Speaker 1: sized fruit for you to eat. So depending on where 961 00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:27,120 Speaker 1: you live, the one thing you need to keep in 962 00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,200 Speaker 1: mind is what that length of your season is. Now, 963 00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:32,520 Speaker 1: to get back to the main subject that the podcast 964 00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:36,440 Speaker 1: talking about, things like climate change and collapse. That season 965 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,680 Speaker 1: is changing rapidly. Right now. We're adding days, so the 966 00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:43,480 Speaker 1: seasons are getting longer, but also we're having weird cold 967 00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:47,279 Speaker 1: snaps later and later into spring, so what might have 968 00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:51,120 Speaker 1: been a traditional season no longer really applies anymore. So 969 00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,440 Speaker 1: if you're thinking about this is your first year, you 970 00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:55,880 Speaker 1: don't want to grow anything that might be right at 971 00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,360 Speaker 1: the cusp of um being in your season, Or you 972 00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,680 Speaker 1: don't want to are plant inside and then have to 973 00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:03,800 Speaker 1: move it outside and you have to know whether or 974 00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:05,479 Speaker 1: not it has a tap root and all these other 975 00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:07,720 Speaker 1: things to make sure that you don't damage the plant. 976 00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:10,880 Speaker 1: Then you definitely want to grow something with a shorter season, 977 00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:17,560 Speaker 1: things like um. Cold weather plants, lettuces, broccolis, cauliflowers, things 978 00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:20,640 Speaker 1: like that will generally do pretty good in short seasons, 979 00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,760 Speaker 1: but they don't really do well in really warm climates. 980 00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,319 Speaker 1: So if you're in say Florida, it's gonna be really 981 00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,520 Speaker 1: difficult UM. But that that's kind of how you want 982 00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:32,839 Speaker 1: to start thinking about those processes. Learning what the cold 983 00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:36,200 Speaker 1: season plants are, what the warm season plants are, where 984 00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:38,520 Speaker 1: you fit in in terms of the zone that you 985 00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,440 Speaker 1: live within, and again starting to think about Okay, the 986 00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:43,760 Speaker 1: last couple of years, when did we get the last frost? 987 00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,960 Speaker 1: Because it's not what it might say ten years ago 988 00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:50,200 Speaker 1: is your average last frost, Those days are pretty much gone. 989 00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,279 Speaker 1: I know here in Portland we're currently growing a lot 990 00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:56,359 Speaker 1: of potatoes and that's been that's been kind of our 991 00:51:56,520 --> 00:52:00,399 Speaker 1: our our big haul. Also, tomatoes did very good this year, 992 00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:04,600 Speaker 1: particularly because of our big heat domes they got we 993 00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:06,920 Speaker 1: got the tomatoes did so much better than what they 994 00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:10,000 Speaker 1: what they usually do. We've like canned so many tomatoes 995 00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:13,080 Speaker 1: just because we just we have so many more than 996 00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,920 Speaker 1: what we're used to that I do find that interesting, 997 00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:20,320 Speaker 1: being like, you know, climate change obviously being generally a 998 00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:23,640 Speaker 1: net bad, but you know, in some cases for growing 999 00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,480 Speaker 1: it's gonna make certain crops easier to grow, but you know, 1000 00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:28,759 Speaker 1: other crops will be harder to grow. It's something I 1001 00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,200 Speaker 1: wanted to talk more about in the first five heavily 1002 00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,239 Speaker 1: scripted It could happen here season two episodes. It's like, 1003 00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:37,920 Speaker 1: particularly how different growing regions are going to shift up 1004 00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:39,960 Speaker 1: and how like you know, Canada for instance, is going 1005 00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:43,839 Speaker 1: to have a lot more agriculture in the next years 1006 00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,560 Speaker 1: just because so many, so many climates are slowly inching upwards. 1007 00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:49,359 Speaker 1: But you know, even in places like Georgia and other 1008 00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,560 Speaker 1: places where different if we know specific plants are growing, 1009 00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:54,759 Speaker 1: all that stuff is gonna be changing. Obviously, this is 1010 00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:59,920 Speaker 1: affecting coffee and how we're getting less and less it's 1011 00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,640 Speaker 1: based and land that's actually able to grow coffee because 1012 00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,680 Speaker 1: basically plants, you know, growers have to move their plants 1013 00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:07,560 Speaker 1: up a mountain every year in order to make the 1014 00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:09,840 Speaker 1: coffee actually work, which is why it's gonna We're just 1015 00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,680 Speaker 1: gonna run up the space. Um So, yeah, that is 1016 00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:17,279 Speaker 1: obviously the more negative sides of things California lack of 1017 00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:21,000 Speaker 1: rainwater and just and just lack of rain. Yeah absolutely, rain, 1018 00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:24,160 Speaker 1: yeah absolutely, And that brings up a really important point 1019 00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,040 Speaker 1: that you know, you're talking about moving the coffee trees 1020 00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:30,279 Speaker 1: further and further up a mountain as the areas that 1021 00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:35,600 Speaker 1: are considered prime agricultural areas moves north for us, you 1022 00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:38,960 Speaker 1: have to think about the infrastructural challenges that brings. So 1023 00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:41,080 Speaker 1: it's not just you're going to grow the crops in 1024 00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,320 Speaker 1: one place, but the infrastructure, the trains, all these different 1025 00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:47,680 Speaker 1: things don't exist in the places where you'll be able 1026 00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:51,160 Speaker 1: to grow those foods. So speaking of something you know 1027 00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:53,960 Speaker 1: around that rough kind of idea is like, if someone's 1028 00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,680 Speaker 1: never never done this before, they're out to go get stuff, 1029 00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:01,239 Speaker 1: where would you where would someone like that fine seeds? Um, 1030 00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:03,080 Speaker 1: Let's say that they don't let's say they don't use 1031 00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:06,359 Speaker 1: the internet's tons um whereabouts where you think they'll go 1032 00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:08,719 Speaker 1: and get cauliflower seeds or carrot seeds if they if 1033 00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,399 Speaker 1: they want to start doing this stuff. Yeah, So there's 1034 00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,680 Speaker 1: a bunch of different growers that offer seeds. And one 1035 00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:17,040 Speaker 1: of the things to keep in mind with annuals is 1036 00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:19,160 Speaker 1: that it does make sense if you can to buy 1037 00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:22,880 Speaker 1: them locally, because what within a couple of generations, plants 1038 00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:27,400 Speaker 1: will start evolving towards local conditions. It's it's really beneficial, 1039 00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,040 Speaker 1: especially with like I said, with climate change, to start 1040 00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:33,320 Speaker 1: thinking about how can we integrate our food systems into 1041 00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:36,920 Speaker 1: the ecological conditions where we live, and that ecology includes 1042 00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:40,560 Speaker 1: the climate. So we have to continuously more thoughtfully start 1043 00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,400 Speaker 1: thinking about these things and how we grow food and 1044 00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,719 Speaker 1: where those foods come from in order to really be 1045 00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,560 Speaker 1: able to deal with and mitigate the effects of climate change. 1046 00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:52,040 Speaker 1: So a great resources Johnny's seed they do a lot 1047 00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:55,880 Speaker 1: of really good work and there they have good quality stuff. 1048 00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:58,759 Speaker 1: And there's a bunch of seed companies out there that 1049 00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,919 Speaker 1: have done some really problem matic stuff that I won't 1050 00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:05,160 Speaker 1: go into or talk about, but they're these guys, as 1051 00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:07,680 Speaker 1: far as I'm aware, are pretty good. So I would 1052 00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:12,440 Speaker 1: definitely recommend them. Awesome. Yeah, their website is just Johnny 1053 00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:14,960 Speaker 1: Seeds dot com. Just for everyone who's looking that up 1054 00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:17,880 Speaker 1: at it's Johnny with a Y. Good for Johnny with 1055 00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:24,200 Speaker 1: a Y. Great. All right, Let's now, let's say someone 1056 00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:27,960 Speaker 1: lives in a downtown apartment in a metropolitan area. They 1057 00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:31,280 Speaker 1: don't have immediate access to you know, tons of dirt 1058 00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:34,759 Speaker 1: or you know, grass, but they want to start kind 1059 00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:37,759 Speaker 1: of growing some stuff. If if you were in that position, 1060 00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,399 Speaker 1: what would you start doing? And to that, I want 1061 00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:43,440 Speaker 1: to to part that that would be somebody with a 1062 00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:45,600 Speaker 1: balcony where they have access to like even like a 1063 00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:49,280 Speaker 1: little pattio area or those and then without yeah, sure, 1064 00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:51,879 Speaker 1: So there's a bunch of different things you can do. 1065 00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:55,680 Speaker 1: Starting with if you have a balcony, you can start 1066 00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:59,280 Speaker 1: thinking about getting pots, filling them up with soil, amending 1067 00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:02,360 Speaker 1: that soil is needed as you add plants, and again 1068 00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:05,440 Speaker 1: the general rule is to think about how big a 1069 00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:07,839 Speaker 1: plant gets, and how big a plant gets is how 1070 00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:09,839 Speaker 1: big its root system is going to get. I mean, 1071 00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:12,600 Speaker 1: that's not accurate by any means, but it's just a 1072 00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,080 Speaker 1: good rule of thumb to think about as you're doing 1073 00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:18,239 Speaker 1: something like this, and you know, if you have a 1074 00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:20,520 Speaker 1: tiny pot, then something that gets big is not going 1075 00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:22,880 Speaker 1: to work. Might be better for a lettuce or whatever. 1076 00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:25,239 Speaker 1: And there's a bunch of different places you can look 1077 00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:28,240 Speaker 1: online for how to grow things on balconies and things 1078 00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:31,120 Speaker 1: like that. You can also, and this is really dependent 1079 00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:34,359 Speaker 1: on money, is start thinking about out things like grow lights, 1080 00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:37,200 Speaker 1: which really are not that complicated once you start learning 1081 00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:40,560 Speaker 1: a bit about them, hydroponics, which comes with their own 1082 00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,239 Speaker 1: challenges because at the end of the day, while it's 1083 00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:44,880 Speaker 1: nice to be able to grow food in your house, 1084 00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:49,279 Speaker 1: you're still relying on extractive processes. So you know your 1085 00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:53,000 Speaker 1: nutrients are coming from fossil fuel essentially, So that's just 1086 00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:55,640 Speaker 1: something to be aware of. It's probably still better than 1087 00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:58,719 Speaker 1: the alternative of buying food on the shelf, but it 1088 00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:01,120 Speaker 1: is something to be aware of in that process that 1089 00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:05,520 Speaker 1: it's not really a sustainable quote unquote practice, got it? 1090 00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:08,799 Speaker 1: And what are some of the go twos for a 1091 00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:11,480 Speaker 1: balcony garden that you would recommend for people that are 1092 00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:15,279 Speaker 1: just starting out. Definitely, those leafy greens are a good 1093 00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:18,520 Speaker 1: place to start. They grow small, they have smaller roots systems. 1094 00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:22,120 Speaker 1: Most times, things like lettuces don't need a ton of 1095 00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:25,240 Speaker 1: sun to grow super well. As long as they get 1096 00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:27,440 Speaker 1: a decent amount, they'll be fine. They're not like a 1097 00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:30,920 Speaker 1: tomato that's gonna like be desperately looking for that that 1098 00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:35,080 Speaker 1: sun and that energy. So those smaller greens are generally 1099 00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:39,200 Speaker 1: a better option. Great. Yeah, I was able to grow 1100 00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,240 Speaker 1: kale and like a pot this of this winter and 1101 00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,600 Speaker 1: it was great. Yeah, Kale is a great one here 1102 00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:47,919 Speaker 1: in New England. It's really nice because you can grow 1103 00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:50,280 Speaker 1: it under glass during the winter, so even if you 1104 00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:52,880 Speaker 1: get a cold spell, it will stay just warm enough 1105 00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:57,200 Speaker 1: to make it pretty much throughout the winter. All right, Now, 1106 00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:00,360 Speaker 1: I have no balcony. I only have, you know, two 1107 00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,200 Speaker 1: small windows, you know I have. I have like a 1108 00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:04,919 Speaker 1: counter and stuff, you know, I can like can set 1109 00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:09,080 Speaker 1: up stuff, but I do not have tons of outdoor access. 1110 00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:12,200 Speaker 1: But I I would like to stop buying dil every 1111 00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:13,960 Speaker 1: time I go to the store, because I use it 1112 00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:16,959 Speaker 1: in my homemade ranch dressing. Now can I just buy 1113 00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:20,360 Speaker 1: those like pre pre podded stuff and just water them 1114 00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:22,360 Speaker 1: or kind of like if if if I want to 1115 00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:24,280 Speaker 1: get more in depth, what are they? You know, some 1116 00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:28,200 Speaker 1: things that are beyond that, but not you know, making this, 1117 00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:31,919 Speaker 1: you know, making this giant set up. So you could 1118 00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:38,240 Speaker 1: be creative and do something that's less than eagle. And 1119 00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:42,440 Speaker 1: there's this practice known as guerrilla gardening. I was I 1120 00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:45,960 Speaker 1: was gonna mention girly grillly gardening soon. Yeah. Sure, So 1121 00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:48,720 Speaker 1: this is like something that works really well, and there's 1122 00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:50,720 Speaker 1: a bunch of different ways you can do it, and 1123 00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:53,760 Speaker 1: it really depends on your local conditions and what can 1124 00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:55,720 Speaker 1: grow out in the wild and needs a lot of 1125 00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:59,360 Speaker 1: maintenance and what doesn't. And I don't know the Pacific 1126 00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:02,160 Speaker 1: Northwest a well, but it is warm enough that I 1127 00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:04,080 Speaker 1: think theyll would probably do fine, and it is wet 1128 00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:06,760 Speaker 1: enough that bill would probably do fine. So you could 1129 00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:09,680 Speaker 1: just go anywhere where there's green space that nobody checks 1130 00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:12,919 Speaker 1: things and just drop some plants in. You could start 1131 00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:15,280 Speaker 1: seedlings in your house and bring them where you want 1132 00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:17,720 Speaker 1: to harvest it later, and it's on your walk to 1133 00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,920 Speaker 1: work or where you get coffee or whatever. Drop it 1134 00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:23,240 Speaker 1: in the ground, make sure the roots are you know, 1135 00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:25,920 Speaker 1: not bound up, and make sure it's got a nice 1136 00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:27,720 Speaker 1: watered wrench right when you put it in the ground 1137 00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:31,200 Speaker 1: so it starts adjusting. And that's you know, that's that's 1138 00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:34,320 Speaker 1: the first step in something as simple as gerla agriculture. 1139 00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:37,160 Speaker 1: One of the first things that we tried to do 1140 00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:40,400 Speaker 1: when I got kind of started in you know, the 1141 00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:44,240 Speaker 1: you know Portland's kind of more lefty seed was you know, 1142 00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:48,960 Speaker 1: ideas for you know, building a community garden somewhere. And yeah, 1143 00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:52,240 Speaker 1: because there is just a lot of dirt, especially like 1144 00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:55,560 Speaker 1: Portland's specifically lucky just because we just have so much 1145 00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:58,560 Speaker 1: green space. Uh, there's a lot of places to to 1146 00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:02,480 Speaker 1: start grill gardening. Just start doing our own little community garden. 1147 01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:08,400 Speaker 1: Do you do you have any alleged experience in guerrilla gardening. Yes, 1148 01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:12,440 Speaker 1: So if you're on Instagram, I post a bit about 1149 01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:15,360 Speaker 1: some of the guerrilla gardening stuff that I do. UM. 1150 01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:20,560 Speaker 1: I generally focus on guerrilla gardening, not necessarily for my 1151 01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:24,960 Speaker 1: own consumption, but more for ecological mitigation for damage from 1152 01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:28,320 Speaker 1: um clear cutting and things like that. So I go 1153 01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:30,200 Speaker 1: out and try to plant things that are native to 1154 01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:32,919 Speaker 1: regions and try to bring them back a little bit. 1155 01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:35,920 Speaker 1: So that's one of the challenges that we see here 1156 01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:39,000 Speaker 1: on the East Coast is not only are our cities 1157 01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:42,000 Speaker 1: not really designed with green space and mind and for 1158 01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:44,880 Speaker 1: community gardens, I almost never recommend them just because in 1159 01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:48,480 Speaker 1: places like Boston they're hard to get into and a 1160 01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:50,320 Speaker 1: lot of major cities like you can be on wait 1161 01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:54,480 Speaker 1: lists for years, So that's not really a short term 1162 01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:56,800 Speaker 1: solution or a solution for a lot of people that 1163 01:00:56,840 --> 01:01:00,320 Speaker 1: are rather transient where you might move communities every three 1164 01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:04,360 Speaker 1: or four or five years. Um. So like guerrilla gardening 1165 01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:07,280 Speaker 1: works really great for those folks because you can do 1166 01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:09,840 Speaker 1: it when you want and how you want. Nothing says 1167 01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:14,760 Speaker 1: community like a waitlist, right No. Like, in terms of 1168 01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:17,000 Speaker 1: community gardens, I think you know, there's been a lot 1169 01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:19,400 Speaker 1: of people asking about how they get involved in mutual 1170 01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:21,560 Speaker 1: aiden stuff, especially if they don't have like friends or 1171 01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:24,720 Speaker 1: like they don't have many friends or connections to activism. 1172 01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:27,360 Speaker 1: I think one of the best ways to start anything 1173 01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:29,480 Speaker 1: like that is just all you need is like yourself 1174 01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:31,400 Speaker 1: and maybe one or two other people that you know 1175 01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:34,120 Speaker 1: to just start a community garden somewhere. And that's a 1176 01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:38,640 Speaker 1: very very nice on ramp into like community organizing. Absolutely 1177 01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:41,760 Speaker 1: back in Portland when I used to live in the Southwest, 1178 01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:45,480 Speaker 1: there was there's just whole like community plots that are 1179 01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:49,800 Speaker 1: like you know, more like official but still pretty like decentralized. 1180 01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:52,040 Speaker 1: That you could just basically go up to one of 1181 01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:54,360 Speaker 1: the bank at plots and just start planting food in 1182 01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:57,280 Speaker 1: this community setting, and like once a month all of 1183 01:01:57,320 --> 01:01:59,600 Speaker 1: the different gardeners would like get together and talk about 1184 01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,240 Speaker 1: what their going and stuff, and they you know, could 1185 01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:06,280 Speaker 1: trade produce. Be like I'm growing I'm growing pumpkins, You're 1186 01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:08,880 Speaker 1: growing butternut squash. I want one of your squash. I 1187 01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:10,920 Speaker 1: want one of your pumpkins. Right, you can like that 1188 01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:13,560 Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Um or if you know, if you 1189 01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:15,960 Speaker 1: end up having with having like a larger hole, you 1190 01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:18,520 Speaker 1: can just give it out to random people. It turns 1191 01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:22,680 Speaker 1: out people might like receiving fresh produce. That could be 1192 01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:25,440 Speaker 1: another way of making friends and making connections. If you're 1193 01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:27,680 Speaker 1: kind of isolated in the city and you only have 1194 01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:31,120 Speaker 1: one or two other people, you can't start start a 1195 01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:35,040 Speaker 1: new community garden somewhere in the city just like scope 1196 01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:39,040 Speaker 1: out of spot, start growing and then and to speak 1197 01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:40,880 Speaker 1: to that you know, One of the things is that 1198 01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:43,360 Speaker 1: if you act like your official and you're supposed to 1199 01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:45,040 Speaker 1: be there and you know you're supposed to be there, 1200 01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:47,880 Speaker 1: people generally don't really question you, especially when it comes 1201 01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:51,440 Speaker 1: to plants. Like if I go to like a median 1202 01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:53,760 Speaker 1: and go plant some trees, Like as long as I 1203 01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:56,640 Speaker 1: act like I know what I'm doing and like don't 1204 01:02:56,640 --> 01:02:58,919 Speaker 1: look like I'm trying to be sneaky, no one ever 1205 01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,439 Speaker 1: questions me. And that's the key thing, is to really 1206 01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:03,840 Speaker 1: make it clear that like, you know you're supposed to 1207 01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:07,600 Speaker 1: be there when whenever I eventually I'll put together an 1208 01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:10,360 Speaker 1: episode on like urban stealth and stuff. And there's nothing 1209 01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:14,120 Speaker 1: more powerful than like a hive is vest just an 1210 01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:18,160 Speaker 1: incredibly powerful tool for making people glaze over you and 1211 01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:21,040 Speaker 1: think you're a professional. It's a music or in this case, 1212 01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:23,160 Speaker 1: like when I'm doing what I do, you know, I'll 1213 01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:26,920 Speaker 1: borrow someone's old beat up pickup truck and throw a 1214 01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:29,040 Speaker 1: couple of big trees in the back, and like you 1215 01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:30,400 Speaker 1: see that pulled over on the side of the road 1216 01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:32,760 Speaker 1: with its hazard lights on, Nobody's going to question that. 1217 01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:34,800 Speaker 1: It's like a town or a city, and if somebody 1218 01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:36,760 Speaker 1: from the town shows up as I'm from the DPW 1219 01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:42,760 Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah, there's it's incredibly incredibly useful. Um and yeah, 1220 01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:44,680 Speaker 1: but like getting to know you know, if you're like 1221 01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:46,320 Speaker 1: I don't know where to find a local you know, 1222 01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:48,280 Speaker 1: I don't know how to like where I would pick 1223 01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:51,120 Speaker 1: a local community garden spot, be like you should like 1224 01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:53,400 Speaker 1: get to know your local area. It's in another great 1225 01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:56,280 Speaker 1: way of figuring out how to start doing any mutulate 1226 01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:58,360 Speaker 1: or anything. It's like, you need to know where you 1227 01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:01,120 Speaker 1: live and like, what's what's around you? Who others who 1228 01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:03,200 Speaker 1: you know? Maybe in your search to find the community 1229 01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:05,880 Speaker 1: garden you might find one that already exists. If you're 1230 01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:08,440 Speaker 1: unfamiliar with your you know, with if you're in a 1231 01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:11,080 Speaker 1: metropolitan area or if you're more out in the middle 1232 01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,640 Speaker 1: of nowhere, you may not know what's around you. And 1233 01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:16,320 Speaker 1: I mean looking out to see what's actually in the 1234 01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:18,880 Speaker 1: community is one of the first big steps to have 1235 01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:22,200 Speaker 1: any kind of and that plays out also in ecology. 1236 01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:24,760 Speaker 1: So you know, if you're in a city, most cities 1237 01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:29,120 Speaker 1: have public forest parks, whatever it might be. And part 1238 01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:31,800 Speaker 1: of not knowing what's around you, or knowing rather what's 1239 01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:34,640 Speaker 1: around you is starting to identify the plants that are 1240 01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:37,720 Speaker 1: already around you. And while there's been a lot of 1241 01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:41,320 Speaker 1: action in terms of thinking about things like foraging, UM, 1242 01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:44,479 Speaker 1: there's there's a ton of opportunity for us to start 1243 01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:47,120 Speaker 1: looking at foods that we don't traditionally think of foods 1244 01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:52,880 Speaker 1: but produce a ton of calories. So something like oaks. 1245 01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:55,800 Speaker 1: Oaks are across the United States. I don't think there's 1246 01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:58,840 Speaker 1: any state without oak trees and acorns can be a 1247 01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:01,240 Speaker 1: huge part of anyone's die if they're willing to take 1248 01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:03,280 Speaker 1: the time and more and about them. And that's not 1249 01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:06,160 Speaker 1: something that's radical or anything. It's something that's been done 1250 01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:09,760 Speaker 1: for thousands of years. It's just in in our lifetime, 1251 01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:13,520 Speaker 1: in our parents lifetime, that that knowledge and that experience 1252 01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:16,920 Speaker 1: has been mostly lost. But it's not something that's weird 1253 01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:21,919 Speaker 1: or unaccessible or any of those types of things. Absolutely, UM, 1254 01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:24,880 Speaker 1: I think this is actually a decent cutting off point 1255 01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:28,320 Speaker 1: for this episode and then the next in in in 1256 01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:30,480 Speaker 1: the In the next episode in the feed here we 1257 01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:35,080 Speaker 1: will focus more on ecology UM books, more on soil, 1258 01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:37,080 Speaker 1: and maybe get into like permaculture and some other kind 1259 01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:39,520 Speaker 1: of stuff because I would love to learn more about 1260 01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:43,800 Speaker 1: you know, specific soil stuff and you know different, you 1261 01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:46,960 Speaker 1: know more insight to our current like growing situation overall 1262 01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:49,240 Speaker 1: as like a country and how you know stuff is changing. 1263 01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:52,600 Speaker 1: But um, would you like to plug anything really to 1264 01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:55,200 Speaker 1: you or any other like resources on this topic before 1265 01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:59,040 Speaker 1: we head out? Absolutely so we are a podcast. Go 1266 01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:02,880 Speaker 1: check us out prols dot com or Spotify. Wherever you're 1267 01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:05,200 Speaker 1: listening to this podcast, you can go check out some 1268 01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:07,920 Speaker 1: of our work. We're also on Instagram and Facebook like 1269 01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:12,840 Speaker 1: everyone else, and you can go follow us over there. Fantastic. Um. 1270 01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:14,440 Speaker 1: If you want to keep up to date on stuff 1271 01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,160 Speaker 1: for this show, you can follow cool Zone cool Zone 1272 01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:20,360 Speaker 1: Media and Happen Here pod on Twitter and Instagram and 1273 01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:22,640 Speaker 1: you can catch more It could happen here daily in 1274 01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:46,800 Speaker 1: this feed. Uh, see you tomorrow. Bye, It's soil tom Hello, 1275 01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:51,240 Speaker 1: welcome to it could happen here. We're talking about we're 1276 01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:55,720 Speaker 1: talking about dirt today, big big, big dirt fans here. 1277 01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:59,640 Speaker 1: We love, we love dirt, we love soil. Um And 1278 01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:03,000 Speaker 1: to help us talk about soil, dirt, ecology, growing for 1279 01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:07,960 Speaker 1: forging all of this kind of stuff, we have Andy 1280 01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:11,760 Speaker 1: from the Poor Pearl's Almanac podcast about you know what 1281 01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:15,280 Speaker 1: to do after you know stuff kind of crumbles away 1282 01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:18,200 Speaker 1: slowly kind of kind of like kind of like our podcast. Um, 1283 01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:22,480 Speaker 1: and we're not like our soil hopefully. Well I got 1284 01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:25,520 Speaker 1: some bad news for you there. Some of us are 1285 01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:28,200 Speaker 1: not great at cultivating soil, which is what we are 1286 01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:31,200 Speaker 1: talking about today is how to avoid getting a lot 1287 01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:33,680 Speaker 1: of void, Like, how can we help help against our 1288 01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:38,760 Speaker 1: soil just blowing away? Um? Yeah, that is that is 1289 01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:40,840 Speaker 1: That is our discussion. I I wrapped up like a 1290 01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:46,320 Speaker 1: week of research on California specific climate and drought and 1291 01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:48,920 Speaker 1: what all the farmers are doing. Um, and a lot 1292 01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:51,320 Speaker 1: of their soil is blowing away and so far their 1293 01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:53,600 Speaker 1: solution to that is just spray more water on it, 1294 01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:57,680 Speaker 1: which the problem is there's not tons of water. Um, 1295 01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:02,080 Speaker 1: so let's talk about dirt. Let's talk about soil. I 1296 01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:05,680 Speaker 1: will hand it over to the residents. Soy boy, the 1297 01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:09,240 Speaker 1: soil expert here, because I don't know what I'm talking 1298 01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:12,440 Speaker 1: about with dirt. My puns are getting famous, I know 1299 01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:15,280 Speaker 1: I have. That was that was just that I was 1300 01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:17,880 Speaker 1: just ripping, ripping off of a title of one of 1301 01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:22,040 Speaker 1: his episodes. So that's not original. Blame him for the pond. Sorry, 1302 01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:26,839 Speaker 1: I do that a lot. So in terms of building soil. 1303 01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:31,840 Speaker 1: There's it's really a basic idea of how to do it, 1304 01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:35,479 Speaker 1: and it generally comes down to understanding what a soil 1305 01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:38,840 Speaker 1: needs and how to let the soil build through rest 1306 01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:42,720 Speaker 1: and generally speaking, when we plant our annual crops, what 1307 01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:45,000 Speaker 1: happens is you put your tomato plants in the ground, 1308 01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:48,559 Speaker 1: whatever it might be. You've got a great harvest, you 1309 01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:51,080 Speaker 1: you know, let them die, clear them out, and then 1310 01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:54,040 Speaker 1: the next year maybe you throw some more compost on it, 1311 01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:56,479 Speaker 1: or maybe you're like, I just don't want time, I 1312 01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:58,280 Speaker 1: won't do it, and you'll grow and you might have 1313 01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:00,880 Speaker 1: a pretty decent crop again. Then usually by like the 1314 01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:02,880 Speaker 1: third year, you start to notice that your plants just 1315 01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:05,600 Speaker 1: aren't doing as well, like all the nutrients and the 1316 01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:07,920 Speaker 1: minerals have started to get taken out of the soil. 1317 01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:11,880 Speaker 1: So you can either continuously add new material to it, 1318 01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:15,720 Speaker 1: which comes from somewhere doesn't seem very sustainable. Yeah, it's 1319 01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:19,320 Speaker 1: absolutely not sustainable. And the alternative is to think about 1320 01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:21,639 Speaker 1: how can I build up that soil without doing that, 1321 01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:23,880 Speaker 1: And there's a couple of different ways we can do that. 1322 01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:29,160 Speaker 1: The soil can get built from things like cover crops, 1323 01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:32,759 Speaker 1: so we can add cover crops. Generally things like nitrogen 1324 01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:37,439 Speaker 1: fixing plants, clovers, hairy vetch, and a number of others 1325 01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:40,320 Speaker 1: that we can use to help fix nitrogen into the soil. 1326 01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:43,479 Speaker 1: Or we can add other things to add biomass. So 1327 01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:46,800 Speaker 1: certain grasses and things like that can be planted and 1328 01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:49,640 Speaker 1: they'll mine deep into the soil to pull up nutrients 1329 01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:52,080 Speaker 1: when they die off, or you can cut them down 1330 01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:55,240 Speaker 1: they start breaking down, they return those nutrients back, but 1331 01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:57,559 Speaker 1: they're on the top soil now, So that's another way 1332 01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:01,040 Speaker 1: we can do it. Alternatively, we're talking about a little 1333 01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:04,280 Speaker 1: bit more land. You can take advantage of using animals 1334 01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:10,520 Speaker 1: so chickens, rabbits, cheap cows, whatever it might be, reintroduce 1335 01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:14,120 Speaker 1: nutrients back into the soil through things like rotational grazing. 1336 01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:16,960 Speaker 1: And there's a you know that, that's a whole other 1337 01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:20,280 Speaker 1: subject of you know, how different methods are better or 1338 01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:23,760 Speaker 1: worse for fixing nitrogen and all the other nutrients back 1339 01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:26,720 Speaker 1: into the soil, and um we can talk about it. 1340 01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:28,280 Speaker 1: I don't know if you want to spend an hour 1341 01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:31,680 Speaker 1: talking about it. I assume that that definitely depends on 1342 01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:35,120 Speaker 1: the scale of your operation. I would assume absolutely, and 1343 01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:38,479 Speaker 1: you can do that on a smaller scale, not necessarily cows, 1344 01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:42,479 Speaker 1: but like chickens can. Chickens can be run through chicken tractors, 1345 01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:44,960 Speaker 1: which can be as small as you know, three ft 1346 01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:48,200 Speaker 1: by six ft. And we're making Yeah, we were making 1347 01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:53,720 Speaker 1: some fertilizer a few months ago and basically we braked up, 1348 01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:56,960 Speaker 1: well I did. I watched as people did this because 1349 01:10:57,000 --> 01:11:01,040 Speaker 1: I was lazy. I watched people as rake up tons 1350 01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:05,160 Speaker 1: of sheep shit um because there we have there's a 1351 01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:08,320 Speaker 1: little sheep set up, and they were just raking up 1352 01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:10,920 Speaker 1: all the ship and putting into a pile of dirt. 1353 01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:14,640 Speaker 1: And now it's been like a it's been like a 1354 01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:17,480 Speaker 1: month or two, and we should have some okay fertilizer 1355 01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:20,439 Speaker 1: by now, which we can you know, use however we 1356 01:11:20,479 --> 01:11:25,559 Speaker 1: see fit. But chickens, chickens, chickens as well, not not 1357 01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:29,360 Speaker 1: everyone probably has sheep or access to sheep um, but 1358 01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:32,720 Speaker 1: chickens are surprisingly easy to get. Yeah, and depending on 1359 01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:35,400 Speaker 1: the city or in uh you can live in pretty 1360 01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:38,320 Speaker 1: dense places and still legally have chickens. You might have 1361 01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:40,280 Speaker 1: to get comfortable with the idea of slaughtering a rooster, 1362 01:11:40,439 --> 01:11:43,519 Speaker 1: but other than that, you know, there's it's funny because 1363 01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:45,519 Speaker 1: what you'll see is like in the early spring, everyone 1364 01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:49,559 Speaker 1: gets chickens, and then by like July u on on 1365 01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:55,920 Speaker 1: Craigslist or Facebook or Instagram, everyone's like, free rooster to 1366 01:11:56,000 --> 01:12:01,360 Speaker 1: good home because they can't slaughter themselves. Uh. Yeah, I've 1367 01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:03,840 Speaker 1: had I've had to watch a few roosters get the 1368 01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:08,400 Speaker 1: get the old old acts. There was there was this 1369 01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:11,680 Speaker 1: one rooster that would always wake up as we were 1370 01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:13,360 Speaker 1: all going to bed. We would have like we have 1371 01:12:13,439 --> 01:12:16,000 Speaker 1: like a movie night, um, and we're like going to 1372 01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:17,920 Speaker 1: bed at four am, and that's when the rooster starts. 1373 01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:21,120 Speaker 1: We're like no, we're trying to sleep, and we're like, 1374 01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:25,519 Speaker 1: we need to kill that rooster. It's time. It's time. 1375 01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:27,960 Speaker 1: One bad day to be like I cannot listen to 1376 01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:32,880 Speaker 1: that sound again. At least at least it went to 1377 01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:37,040 Speaker 1: some good use. Yeah, anyway, back to dirt. Yeah, let's 1378 01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:40,840 Speaker 1: see where we keep talking about reintroducing stuff via you know, 1379 01:12:41,080 --> 01:12:44,240 Speaker 1: chemical means I mean, or or just using animals and stuff, 1380 01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:48,000 Speaker 1: or or rotating plants. Yeah. So there's a bunch of 1381 01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:50,240 Speaker 1: different ways you can do it, and obviously it's all 1382 01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:54,479 Speaker 1: defined by what your site needs. You know. The way 1383 01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:56,360 Speaker 1: we're talking at this point has been mostly about like 1384 01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:58,600 Speaker 1: you already have a garden and that soil needs to 1385 01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:01,760 Speaker 1: be amended to improve it. But if you're working with, 1386 01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:04,639 Speaker 1: say a site that has almost no top soil. So 1387 01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:08,320 Speaker 1: for example, a friend of mine out in California lives 1388 01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:12,040 Speaker 1: near a highway and they scraped all the top soil 1389 01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:15,559 Speaker 1: around the highway to build up the highway. So now 1390 01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:18,960 Speaker 1: there's no top soil, it's just garbage. So how do 1391 01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:20,920 Speaker 1: you build that soil up? And there's a bunch of 1392 01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:23,519 Speaker 1: different ways we can do that, whether it's through taking 1393 01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:27,840 Speaker 1: advantage of free resources like um mulch. Like if you 1394 01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:29,880 Speaker 1: see a tree getting cut down and they chip it 1395 01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:32,200 Speaker 1: all up, those guys have to pay to get rid 1396 01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:34,320 Speaker 1: of it most of the time, or they get paid 1397 01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:36,880 Speaker 1: just enough to cover their gas. So if you see 1398 01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:38,080 Speaker 1: it down the street and say, hey, you want to 1399 01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:40,719 Speaker 1: drop it off in my house, they'll happily do it. Yeah. 1400 01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:43,400 Speaker 1: We we just found out there is this business in 1401 01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:47,000 Speaker 1: Portland that you can email them to do a chip 1402 01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:49,080 Speaker 1: drop where they take all of their mulch and wood 1403 01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:51,760 Speaker 1: chips and drop them off in your driveway and it's 1404 01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:54,240 Speaker 1: completely free. You you you you don't need to pay 1405 01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:56,479 Speaker 1: for it. You can just schedule them to drop it 1406 01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:59,280 Speaker 1: off anywhere. And a short aside, we also found out 1407 01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:02,320 Speaker 1: that they don't quire address verification, so you can do 1408 01:14:02,360 --> 01:14:05,439 Speaker 1: this as a prank. Um, you can find out where 1409 01:14:05,479 --> 01:14:08,400 Speaker 1: the mayor lives, um or where I don't know a 1410 01:14:08,479 --> 01:14:12,320 Speaker 1: particularly bad person lives. Let's say he wears armor and 1411 01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:16,120 Speaker 1: he brutalizes people and threatens them with guns while having 1412 01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:18,320 Speaker 1: a badge. You can find out if you know where 1413 01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:20,240 Speaker 1: he lives, you can just deliver tons of wood chips 1414 01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:23,000 Speaker 1: right right on this driveway. Um. And and they have 1415 01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:25,720 Speaker 1: a rule on their website is once a delivery has 1416 01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:28,200 Speaker 1: been initiated, it's like once the truck leaves you know, 1417 01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:31,679 Speaker 1: their office, it cannot be stopped. There's no way, there's 1418 01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:34,800 Speaker 1: no way preventing it. And they don't contact the house beforehand, 1419 01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:38,320 Speaker 1: no way preventing it. Just a random, random wood chip 1420 01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:42,080 Speaker 1: drop anywhere in any driveway. It's a magical system. But 1421 01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:43,880 Speaker 1: you can also just use this for you know, getting 1422 01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:46,600 Speaker 1: wood chips to help grow things. Yeah, and well, just 1423 01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:49,280 Speaker 1: such an underrated medium. It's like really good for like 1424 01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:52,519 Speaker 1: water retention and helping soil not dry out too fast. 1425 01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:56,240 Speaker 1: It's it's not just like aesthetically nice looking and accessible. 1426 01:14:56,360 --> 01:14:59,080 Speaker 1: It's also like really good for the plants. So I'll 1427 01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:01,559 Speaker 1: add to caveats to that, And the first is that 1428 01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:04,599 Speaker 1: it's really important to know what species you're dealing with 1429 01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:08,120 Speaker 1: that are the wood chips, because certain species have chemicals 1430 01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:12,360 Speaker 1: on them that will reduce growth or stop it completely. 1431 01:15:12,840 --> 01:15:15,680 Speaker 1: So like black walnuts are really well known and on 1432 01:15:15,720 --> 01:15:19,320 Speaker 1: the East Coast as having what's called juglone, And there's 1433 01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:22,360 Speaker 1: a bunch of different species that again are probably unique 1434 01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:24,240 Speaker 1: to where you live that you should just be aware of. 1435 01:15:24,920 --> 01:15:28,200 Speaker 1: And the second one is that mulch and wood chips 1436 01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:32,519 Speaker 1: are fantastic for your garden. However, the one drawback is 1437 01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:35,679 Speaker 1: that for the wood chips to break down, they actually 1438 01:15:35,800 --> 01:15:38,479 Speaker 1: utilize a lot of the nitrogen in the soil. So 1439 01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:40,280 Speaker 1: that's just so you may have a bit of a 1440 01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:42,880 Speaker 1: nitrogen problem or some kind of nitrogen fixing, so it 1441 01:15:42,920 --> 01:15:45,960 Speaker 1: would be more important to think about cover crops and 1442 01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:50,240 Speaker 1: either adding freshman compost or whatever it might be help 1443 01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:53,720 Speaker 1: offset some of that nitrogen absorption. So so it's not 1444 01:15:54,240 --> 01:15:56,600 Speaker 1: it's a great resource, it's just not perfect. You just 1445 01:15:56,640 --> 01:16:00,360 Speaker 1: have to be aware of the limitations of it. I 1446 01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:04,559 Speaker 1: would like to touch on why we're in a bit 1447 01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:06,840 Speaker 1: of a pickle, like what what what what have we 1448 01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:11,440 Speaker 1: done agriculturally to kind of make our soil so unfragile? 1449 01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:14,680 Speaker 1: Like what what did we do wrong? Um on? Like 1450 01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:17,960 Speaker 1: even on a larger scale, and how how might someone 1451 01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:20,599 Speaker 1: like me who just has a small set up, you know, 1452 01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:24,040 Speaker 1: not make the same mistakes in my own personal garden. Sure, 1453 01:16:24,120 --> 01:16:29,360 Speaker 1: so the beginning of the food system becoming what it 1454 01:16:29,439 --> 01:16:34,719 Speaker 1: is today really started with oil. Um access to things 1455 01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:38,880 Speaker 1: like petrochemicals allowed us to start rethinking about how we 1456 01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:44,160 Speaker 1: grew food and forgetting about traditional methods summarily, things like 1457 01:16:44,240 --> 01:16:47,080 Speaker 1: using the newer I mean, you think about it. You eat, 1458 01:16:47,120 --> 01:16:50,840 Speaker 1: all the nutrients go out the sewer and then they 1459 01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:54,559 Speaker 1: never go back into the soil. And we're constantly taking 1460 01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:57,360 Speaker 1: from the same soils year after year. And the only 1461 01:16:57,360 --> 01:16:59,920 Speaker 1: way we continue to produce is because we're dumping chem 1462 01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:03,160 Speaker 1: coals enforcing the soil, which is just a medium at 1463 01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:06,679 Speaker 1: this point. It's just dirt, it's not soil, and we're 1464 01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:08,960 Speaker 1: just making it grow food because we're adding the chemicals 1465 01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:12,280 Speaker 1: the plants need. But we've destroyed things like the bacterial community, 1466 01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:16,000 Speaker 1: the fungag community, all these different things that are so 1467 01:17:16,080 --> 01:17:19,439 Speaker 1: crucial for our food systems to be resilient in terms 1468 01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:23,280 Speaker 1: of how can we move forward. Building that soil is 1469 01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:25,960 Speaker 1: super important and understanding these cycles of where our food 1470 01:17:25,960 --> 01:17:29,920 Speaker 1: comes from. The biggest challenge really is that we're trying 1471 01:17:29,960 --> 01:17:36,519 Speaker 1: to create ethical food systems under an inethical economic model. Sure, so, 1472 01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:39,800 Speaker 1: like you'll see, like permaculture is like a really big 1473 01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:42,759 Speaker 1: thing today and for a lot of good reasons because 1474 01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:48,720 Speaker 1: it challenges that methodology. However, because of things like capitalism, 1475 01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:51,280 Speaker 1: we can't really have an honest conversation about the fact 1476 01:17:51,320 --> 01:17:53,559 Speaker 1: that a lot of people will tell you you can 1477 01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:57,000 Speaker 1: make money doing permaculture, and some people do, but it's 1478 01:17:57,080 --> 01:18:00,559 Speaker 1: not it's not really what people think. Like there's no 1479 01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:05,799 Speaker 1: way to ethically grow food and not have the problems 1480 01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:10,360 Speaker 1: of yeah, you're you're facing or competing with somebody that 1481 01:18:10,479 --> 01:18:13,680 Speaker 1: doesn't have any ethical guidelines or framework that you have 1482 01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:16,280 Speaker 1: to compete with. And I mean, there's plenty of things 1483 01:18:16,360 --> 01:18:18,800 Speaker 1: we can say that there are problems with permaculture, and 1484 01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:21,080 Speaker 1: if you want, we can talk about that further. But 1485 01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:25,360 Speaker 1: this is the primary reason why we can't really fundamentally 1486 01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:29,280 Speaker 1: rethink our food system until things either fall apart or 1487 01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:33,160 Speaker 1: capitalism no longer exists, or there are major subsidies for 1488 01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:37,240 Speaker 1: these alternatives, whatever it might be. Yeah, let's see, Like 1489 01:18:37,800 --> 01:18:41,200 Speaker 1: is even something like would you even say, just like 1490 01:18:41,360 --> 01:18:45,519 Speaker 1: someone buying pre made fertilizers should be avoided in that case, 1491 01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:47,679 Speaker 1: Like would you would you rather you know, someone trying 1492 01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:49,720 Speaker 1: to make it ourselves, and like what's cheaper you know, 1493 01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:52,439 Speaker 1: like it is just buying fertilizers or cheaper than I 1494 01:18:52,439 --> 01:18:54,519 Speaker 1: would actually make it yourself. There's another kind of problem 1495 01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:56,800 Speaker 1: with these types of things that it turns out, you know, 1496 01:18:56,840 --> 01:18:59,400 Speaker 1: the way to make things better might cost some people 1497 01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:01,680 Speaker 1: more money, you know than people who don't really have 1498 01:19:01,800 --> 01:19:03,800 Speaker 1: as many resources. You know, just like a regular person 1499 01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:06,000 Speaker 1: who's trying to do this, you know, they don't have 1500 01:19:06,040 --> 01:19:08,559 Speaker 1: as much money, and would would just buying pre made 1501 01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:12,360 Speaker 1: chemicals you know, easier and cheaper than doing work to 1502 01:19:12,439 --> 01:19:15,240 Speaker 1: kind of build it up more like quote unquote naturally, 1503 01:19:16,479 --> 01:19:20,880 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, I think under capitalism, anything that's efficient 1504 01:19:20,920 --> 01:19:24,439 Speaker 1: in terms of time and um taking advantage of things 1505 01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:29,439 Speaker 1: like scalability, which you know, mining nutrients is always going 1506 01:19:29,479 --> 01:19:31,439 Speaker 1: to be more efficient when you're doing it on a 1507 01:19:31,479 --> 01:19:35,400 Speaker 1: massive global scale, Like you really can't compete dollar for dollar. 1508 01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:38,600 Speaker 1: And that's at least with what I do with the 1509 01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:41,280 Speaker 1: poor pros almanac. We don't really focus on that and 1510 01:19:41,320 --> 01:19:43,960 Speaker 1: instead say this is how things should be, and how 1511 01:19:44,040 --> 01:19:46,439 Speaker 1: do we do that and when do we need to 1512 01:19:46,479 --> 01:19:49,400 Speaker 1: start doing that if we know that what exists today 1513 01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:53,759 Speaker 1: isn't sustainable and that ultimately this is gonna fall apart 1514 01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:58,760 Speaker 1: in some capacity. Yeah, you talked more about like trees specifically, 1515 01:19:58,840 --> 01:20:00,200 Speaker 1: and I would love to love to hear them more 1516 01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:03,160 Speaker 1: about that, you know, outside of just you know, making 1517 01:20:03,160 --> 01:20:06,639 Speaker 1: your own like edible garden, doing doing other kind of 1518 01:20:06,800 --> 01:20:11,800 Speaker 1: ecology related related work. Sure, so trees have you know, 1519 01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:15,000 Speaker 1: so many benefits outside of the fact that they can 1520 01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:18,439 Speaker 1: produce food. Um, we could look at things like how 1521 01:20:18,479 --> 01:20:22,680 Speaker 1: they can manage a landscape and reduce temperature extremes, the 1522 01:20:22,680 --> 01:20:27,799 Speaker 1: way they can maintain soil quality because of UM, reducing 1523 01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:30,599 Speaker 1: things like runoff from major storms, which are happening more 1524 01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:33,840 Speaker 1: and more frequently. YEA. Further, like I said, they do 1525 01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:37,120 Speaker 1: produce food, and they sometimes they produce food for us, 1526 01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:42,200 Speaker 1: sometimes they produce food for our livestock. UM. Additionally, there's 1527 01:20:42,320 --> 01:20:46,000 Speaker 1: a process called silver pasture, which is essentially when you 1528 01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:47,679 Speaker 1: think of a farm, you think of a cow walking 1529 01:20:47,680 --> 01:20:50,519 Speaker 1: around in a field. Instead that cows walking around and 1530 01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:55,559 Speaker 1: a managed forest, and the forest floor gets enough sunlight 1531 01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:58,000 Speaker 1: to grow grass, so you're getting the benefits of the 1532 01:20:58,040 --> 01:21:01,160 Speaker 1: grass as well as the trees, and you can either 1533 01:21:01,200 --> 01:21:03,920 Speaker 1: be using those trees for lumber or for food crops 1534 01:21:04,000 --> 01:21:06,080 Speaker 1: or whatever it might be, and you're getting the best 1535 01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:08,800 Speaker 1: of both worlds. And in a lot of ways, the 1536 01:21:08,840 --> 01:21:13,120 Speaker 1: civil pastor's system more accurately represents the way the landscape 1537 01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:16,240 Speaker 1: had been managed, especially here in the northeast and generally 1538 01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:19,840 Speaker 1: the East coast, by indigenous people. Um, you know, they 1539 01:21:19,840 --> 01:21:22,800 Speaker 1: weren't using cows. They were doing prescribed burns and things 1540 01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:25,920 Speaker 1: like that. But those environments are actually better for things 1541 01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:29,080 Speaker 1: like a deer, which like to like to exist on 1542 01:21:30,280 --> 01:21:32,960 Speaker 1: like the margins of forests where they're getting the best 1543 01:21:32,960 --> 01:21:35,120 Speaker 1: of both worlds. So that was how they managed a 1544 01:21:35,120 --> 01:21:41,040 Speaker 1: wild Essentially, they're wild grazing the native species. Yeah, we 1545 01:21:41,120 --> 01:21:44,320 Speaker 1: just I'm just trying to think there's like we we 1546 01:21:44,439 --> 01:21:46,400 Speaker 1: don't really have anything like that on a on a 1547 01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:50,280 Speaker 1: large scale anymore. We've we've just jumped right into like 1548 01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:53,920 Speaker 1: the the field and pasture thing. Yeah, I mean you 1549 01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:56,000 Speaker 1: think about it, it it makes sense that we haven't because 1550 01:21:56,040 --> 01:22:00,280 Speaker 1: of the fact that to do that requires individual reality. 1551 01:22:00,479 --> 01:22:02,800 Speaker 1: In terms of how we manage a landscape, you can't 1552 01:22:02,840 --> 01:22:06,479 Speaker 1: run a machine through sable pasture. You can't just make 1553 01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:08,920 Speaker 1: like a template and apply to every situation. Everything is 1554 01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:12,800 Speaker 1: much more unique based on their individual environment and ecosystem. Yeah, 1555 01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:15,320 Speaker 1: and then it becomes less efficient to manage in terms 1556 01:22:15,360 --> 01:22:18,800 Speaker 1: of how we manage things as a successional thing where 1557 01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:21,679 Speaker 1: we have you go through the field and you seat 1558 01:22:21,720 --> 01:22:23,920 Speaker 1: it with a giant machine, because you can do it 1559 01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:27,080 Speaker 1: faster that way, you can add whatever amendments you need 1560 01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:29,719 Speaker 1: more quickly when it's just a flat piece of land 1561 01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:32,080 Speaker 1: with nothing in the way, so on and so on. 1562 01:22:32,120 --> 01:22:34,439 Speaker 1: It's just it doesn't It goes right in the face 1563 01:22:34,479 --> 01:22:37,559 Speaker 1: of how we think of efficiency, despite the fact, through 1564 01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:41,479 Speaker 1: its diversity, it's more resilient to what's coming in terms 1565 01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:45,519 Speaker 1: of climate change, especially the logs run. Yeah. Yeah. In 1566 01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:47,799 Speaker 1: the last episode we talked a bit about grilling gardening. 1567 01:22:48,080 --> 01:22:50,760 Speaker 1: Can this like intersect with with this idea of like 1568 01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:53,560 Speaker 1: growing in the forest? Um is there? You know, I 1569 01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:58,080 Speaker 1: assume there's like a decent cross over there. Absolutely, So, 1570 01:22:58,479 --> 01:23:01,879 Speaker 1: generally speaking, lot of people that are into silvil pasture 1571 01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:04,880 Speaker 1: are also thinking about things like tree crops. And one 1572 01:23:04,880 --> 01:23:06,960 Speaker 1: of the things that I really focus on is thinking 1573 01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:10,599 Speaker 1: about foods that we don't traditionally think of as foods, 1574 01:23:10,640 --> 01:23:13,200 Speaker 1: or at least not as like staple crops. So like, 1575 01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:15,759 Speaker 1: while people might be familiar with kind of the odd 1576 01:23:15,760 --> 01:23:18,400 Speaker 1: fruits like per simmons, you might know what a persimmon is. 1577 01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:20,200 Speaker 1: You might have one or two, or maybe make per 1578 01:23:20,200 --> 01:23:24,640 Speaker 1: simmon bread. That's not usually a large part of anyone's diet, no, 1579 01:23:25,160 --> 01:23:27,479 Speaker 1: And that's like, that's the challenge that we really have 1580 01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:30,519 Speaker 1: is while people like to incorporate these types of things 1581 01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:33,679 Speaker 1: in permaculture into you know, how they think about their 1582 01:23:33,680 --> 01:23:37,479 Speaker 1: relationship with the environment, Like nobody's giving up their toast 1583 01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:39,160 Speaker 1: in the morning, and that's you know, a third of 1584 01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:41,280 Speaker 1: your diet or whatever it might be. And that's where 1585 01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:44,120 Speaker 1: we need to fundamentally shift how we think about food. 1586 01:23:45,080 --> 01:23:47,679 Speaker 1: So you're saying that we need to change in order 1587 01:23:47,680 --> 01:23:50,719 Speaker 1: to address these large systemic issues that have caused many problems. 1588 01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:54,360 Speaker 1: We need to change the way we extract resources from 1589 01:23:54,360 --> 01:23:58,479 Speaker 1: the earth and maybe reevaluate how much we do. So yeah, 1590 01:23:58,560 --> 01:24:00,640 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's it's no small feet, is 1591 01:24:00,680 --> 01:24:02,800 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. I know, I'm just saying, like, you know, 1592 01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:07,040 Speaker 1: that's the this specific thing around like food and diet 1593 01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:10,880 Speaker 1: is the same route problem we have with climate change 1594 01:24:11,080 --> 01:24:14,519 Speaker 1: on a larger scale of like just doing you know, 1595 01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:18,680 Speaker 1: progress for progress's sake without realizing that this is not 1596 01:24:18,880 --> 01:24:22,240 Speaker 1: a sustainable way to do things. And infinite growing and 1597 01:24:22,280 --> 01:24:26,160 Speaker 1: like infinite expansion maybe is a bad idea. Yeah, maybe 1598 01:24:26,160 --> 01:24:29,240 Speaker 1: it has some consequence. Who has some consequences? Who would 1599 01:24:29,240 --> 01:24:36,160 Speaker 1: have thought that infinite growth on a finite planet wasn't sustainable? Oops? Yeah. 1600 01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:38,880 Speaker 1: The point that I'm really trying to drive home is 1601 01:24:38,920 --> 01:24:42,200 Speaker 1: that we really need to rethink what food looks like 1602 01:24:42,720 --> 01:24:44,960 Speaker 1: and it has to be in a meaningful way that 1603 01:24:45,040 --> 01:24:48,040 Speaker 1: it can't just be those odds and ends, and that 1604 01:24:48,439 --> 01:24:50,840 Speaker 1: the thing I think people forget is that food is 1605 01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:53,839 Speaker 1: a huge component of our culture and our identity. Absolutely 1606 01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:57,120 Speaker 1: think about food and identity. The reason why our identity 1607 01:24:57,200 --> 01:24:59,920 Speaker 1: surrounded around food is because food is the byproduct of 1608 01:25:00,040 --> 01:25:02,720 Speaker 1: the environment that we live in, and it's you know, 1609 01:25:02,800 --> 01:25:05,200 Speaker 1: for it's been a couple of generations and we went 1610 01:25:05,240 --> 01:25:08,360 Speaker 1: from the reason why Italians e x y z s 1611 01:25:08,400 --> 01:25:11,759 Speaker 1: because that's what grows there. Two, I eat this because 1612 01:25:11,800 --> 01:25:14,639 Speaker 1: my family does, but I don't know why. And that's 1613 01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:17,640 Speaker 1: the way those things relate to one another has been 1614 01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:20,559 Speaker 1: completely lost, and we need to figure out how to 1615 01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:24,680 Speaker 1: do that again. Can you point to any examples of 1616 01:25:24,720 --> 01:25:27,120 Speaker 1: these things you're talking about of, like you know, of 1617 01:25:27,240 --> 01:25:29,880 Speaker 1: systems existing now or in the past that of kind 1618 01:25:29,880 --> 01:25:34,920 Speaker 1: of shown these methods of viewing food and viewing you know, 1619 01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:41,000 Speaker 1: growing and soil cultivation. So like any indigenous practice. And 1620 01:25:41,160 --> 01:25:43,960 Speaker 1: like we say indigenous, and we usually mean like North 1621 01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:47,160 Speaker 1: America or South America or Australia. But even if you 1622 01:25:47,200 --> 01:25:52,240 Speaker 1: look across Europe, you know, before capitalism kind of got 1623 01:25:52,240 --> 01:25:56,040 Speaker 1: its clause into the rest of Europe or all of Europe, like, 1624 01:25:56,080 --> 01:25:59,400 Speaker 1: there were plenty of indigenous practices and in some places 1625 01:25:59,680 --> 01:26:05,680 Speaker 1: they continue and the way that people lived um reflected 1626 01:26:05,760 --> 01:26:08,880 Speaker 1: the needs of their ecology and how people could relate 1627 01:26:08,880 --> 01:26:12,240 Speaker 1: to that ecology. The reason why Nordic countries have high 1628 01:26:12,280 --> 01:26:14,519 Speaker 1: amounts of meat in their diet is because of what 1629 01:26:14,600 --> 01:26:17,479 Speaker 1: grows there and what how they can utilize what grows 1630 01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:20,559 Speaker 1: there to feed themselves through animals and things like that. 1631 01:26:22,120 --> 01:26:24,840 Speaker 1: M Yeah, I mean that is that is generally what 1632 01:26:24,880 --> 01:26:28,919 Speaker 1: we hear is you know, look at the various indigenous 1633 01:26:28,920 --> 01:26:32,000 Speaker 1: methods of growing um and how they how they fed 1634 01:26:32,040 --> 01:26:34,320 Speaker 1: people in their media the area, and thinking like, how 1635 01:26:34,360 --> 01:26:36,920 Speaker 1: can we take those similar ideas and scale it up? 1636 01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:40,160 Speaker 1: Because I mean, they weren't growing food for seven billion people. 1637 01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:42,759 Speaker 1: But I know, like, we grow way too much food 1638 01:26:43,080 --> 01:26:45,880 Speaker 1: for what for many people, maybe not too much food, 1639 01:26:45,880 --> 01:26:48,679 Speaker 1: just we distribute it in a very unefficient way because 1640 01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:50,320 Speaker 1: we don't do it for what we need. We do 1641 01:26:50,360 --> 01:26:52,160 Speaker 1: it for profits, and like we we we throw away 1642 01:26:52,200 --> 01:26:55,680 Speaker 1: so much food that we grow, as you know, globally um. 1643 01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:58,040 Speaker 1: But I know when I think of these more like 1644 01:26:58,120 --> 01:27:01,400 Speaker 1: older methods of growing food, it's it's harder for me 1645 01:27:01,479 --> 01:27:04,759 Speaker 1: to picture that, you know, feeding an entire city, right, 1646 01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:07,240 Speaker 1: And I don't know what the solution is here. This 1647 01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:10,080 Speaker 1: isn't really the thing I focus on a lot. But 1648 01:27:10,280 --> 01:27:12,000 Speaker 1: is there a way to kind of scale up these 1649 01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:13,840 Speaker 1: like smaller skill things that you know, people can do 1650 01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:16,720 Speaker 1: in their own yards on any kind of mass level 1651 01:27:16,800 --> 01:27:18,519 Speaker 1: or is that just kind of rely back on this 1652 01:27:18,640 --> 01:27:21,160 Speaker 1: thing thing we've need to like re reevaluate how much 1653 01:27:21,200 --> 01:27:23,639 Speaker 1: we consume and how we consume it. So I think 1654 01:27:23,680 --> 01:27:25,280 Speaker 1: there's a little bit of both. I think we do 1655 01:27:25,360 --> 01:27:28,479 Speaker 1: need to reevaluate what we're consuming and the volume that 1656 01:27:28,520 --> 01:27:31,400 Speaker 1: we're consuming as well as um, you know, the the 1657 01:27:31,439 --> 01:27:35,599 Speaker 1: waste specifically in terms of those two things that we 1658 01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:37,559 Speaker 1: tend to lose a lot of food that otherwise is 1659 01:27:37,800 --> 01:27:42,000 Speaker 1: useful um. But also there is a lot of opportunity 1660 01:27:42,160 --> 01:27:46,080 Speaker 1: and wild places like maybe New York City, because of 1661 01:27:46,120 --> 01:27:49,320 Speaker 1: the development around the city, might not there might not 1662 01:27:49,360 --> 01:27:52,400 Speaker 1: be any way possible to grow food, like within the 1663 01:27:52,439 --> 01:27:57,240 Speaker 1: metropolitan or even the region. We know that, like, and 1664 01:27:57,320 --> 01:27:59,760 Speaker 1: this is something I probably should have checked before the 1665 01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:02,439 Speaker 1: at but it's something like there's four acres of arable 1666 01:28:02,520 --> 01:28:06,439 Speaker 1: land for every person on Earth, and four acres is 1667 01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:11,720 Speaker 1: like that's plenty. That's plenty. That's absolutely plenty. UM. But like, 1668 01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:15,320 Speaker 1: one of the things that's really important is to start 1669 01:28:15,320 --> 01:28:18,559 Speaker 1: thinking about how we can decentralize these systems in order 1670 01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:21,720 Speaker 1: to have those clusters of places where those things are 1671 01:28:22,080 --> 01:28:27,560 Speaker 1: more um capable of growing and handling the production that's necessary. 1672 01:28:27,640 --> 01:28:30,960 Speaker 1: And so maybe rethink about what what urbanization really should 1673 01:28:30,960 --> 01:28:32,920 Speaker 1: be and what it should look like. And you know, 1674 01:28:33,760 --> 01:28:36,479 Speaker 1: in the future, while things may seem like well, you 1675 01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:39,599 Speaker 1: can't ask people to leave New York City as climate 1676 01:28:39,680 --> 01:28:42,439 Speaker 1: change worsens in our food systems startt to fall apart, 1677 01:28:42,960 --> 01:28:45,160 Speaker 1: that might be a much easier conversation to have, while 1678 01:28:45,280 --> 01:28:48,000 Speaker 1: today that seems kind of radical. Yeah, and at the 1679 01:28:48,120 --> 01:28:50,479 Speaker 1: very least, maybe we should maybe we shouldn't make any 1680 01:28:50,520 --> 01:28:55,400 Speaker 1: more New York cities. Absolutely. Um, is there any like 1681 01:28:55,479 --> 01:28:58,400 Speaker 1: resources online that you can point to that talks more 1682 01:28:58,400 --> 01:29:00,759 Speaker 1: about these types of topics or like books, sally anything 1683 01:29:01,000 --> 01:29:03,479 Speaker 1: in this general was growing on the growing side of 1684 01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:05,519 Speaker 1: things and then like the more like ecology side of things. 1685 01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:08,559 Speaker 1: So Tom Wessels has this really great book called The 1686 01:29:08,600 --> 01:29:12,639 Speaker 1: Myth of Progress, which talks about complex system science and 1687 01:29:12,840 --> 01:29:17,080 Speaker 1: essentially what that is is decentralization and um, the benefits 1688 01:29:17,160 --> 01:29:21,160 Speaker 1: of having diversity within a community and in fact that 1689 01:29:21,200 --> 01:29:25,519 Speaker 1: any any power that's you know, centered in one specific 1690 01:29:25,560 --> 01:29:29,439 Speaker 1: place ends up having imbalances and has less resiliency, and 1691 01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:32,040 Speaker 1: that plays until it's focused around ecology. But I think 1692 01:29:32,080 --> 01:29:35,000 Speaker 1: it's really helpful, especially if you're an anarchist. I think 1693 01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:38,719 Speaker 1: you can through the lens. Yeah. Yeah, so that that's 1694 01:29:38,760 --> 01:29:42,519 Speaker 1: definitely one place to look in terms of like growing food. 1695 01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:45,120 Speaker 1: I don't know if there's really any books that really 1696 01:29:45,160 --> 01:29:49,120 Speaker 1: address it. From this perspective of climate change and decentralization. 1697 01:29:49,479 --> 01:29:53,200 Speaker 1: But there's plenty of work online about silver pasture and 1698 01:29:53,400 --> 01:29:55,639 Speaker 1: you know, food force, any of these types of things. 1699 01:29:55,760 --> 01:30:00,160 Speaker 1: YouTube has like a vast array of resources, And of 1700 01:30:00,160 --> 01:30:02,720 Speaker 1: course if you're interested in this kind of stuff, you 1701 01:30:02,760 --> 01:30:06,800 Speaker 1: can come check us out on our podcast or proslamanac we. Uh, 1702 01:30:06,880 --> 01:30:09,800 Speaker 1: the entire show is pretty much around this subject matter, 1703 01:30:09,880 --> 01:30:11,920 Speaker 1: so you want to learn more about it and check 1704 01:30:11,920 --> 01:30:16,559 Speaker 1: it out. Yeah, absolutely definitely, UM if this specific topic, 1705 01:30:16,640 --> 01:30:20,680 Speaker 1: you have a wonderful catalog of stuff discussing this, UM 1706 01:30:20,720 --> 01:30:22,920 Speaker 1: and I just want to thank you they and thank 1707 01:30:22,960 --> 01:30:24,640 Speaker 1: you so much for coming on this show to kind 1708 01:30:24,680 --> 01:30:27,880 Speaker 1: of talk about these topics. You know, me and Robert 1709 01:30:28,400 --> 01:30:30,280 Speaker 1: and you know Chris, we more of like a background 1710 01:30:30,320 --> 01:30:32,519 Speaker 1: and like history and that kind of thing. We are. 1711 01:30:32,840 --> 01:30:36,880 Speaker 1: We are not super avid plant people, like we're trying 1712 01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:39,519 Speaker 1: to start growing more stuff to our ourselves personally, but 1713 01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:42,400 Speaker 1: I'm definitely not educated to talk on this, and I'm 1714 01:30:42,520 --> 01:30:45,759 Speaker 1: very very happy that you were able to when you're 1715 01:30:45,760 --> 01:30:48,479 Speaker 1: generous with your time and knowledge. So thank you, Thank 1716 01:30:48,520 --> 01:30:52,640 Speaker 1: you so much. Yeah, definitely check out their show on 1717 01:30:52,800 --> 01:30:55,960 Speaker 1: you know, wherever you get your podcasts and You can 1718 01:30:56,000 --> 01:31:00,000 Speaker 1: follow this show Twitter, on Instagram at cool Zone Media 1719 01:31:00,040 --> 01:31:03,280 Speaker 1: you and happen here pod um any any any final 1720 01:31:03,439 --> 01:31:08,080 Speaker 1: final notes. Grow some food, Yeah, grow some food. Grows 1721 01:31:08,120 --> 01:31:11,559 Speaker 1: some food. That is what if I've asked that question 1722 01:31:11,640 --> 01:31:14,800 Speaker 1: a lot and that answer has come up many times. 1723 01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:36,480 Speaker 1: Just growth, grow food. Okay, grows food. What spicy pumpkins? 1724 01:31:38,439 --> 01:31:41,080 Speaker 1: It was it was clipping where it's not clipping. You 1725 01:31:41,160 --> 01:31:43,800 Speaker 1: just don't like me saying, what's spicy my pumpkins? But 1726 01:31:43,920 --> 01:31:46,320 Speaker 1: I said it and it can't be unsaid. It was clipping. 1727 01:31:46,479 --> 01:31:49,840 Speaker 1: This is it could happen Here a daily podcast about 1728 01:31:49,880 --> 01:31:52,960 Speaker 1: the end of some things and the beginning of other things. 1729 01:31:53,160 --> 01:31:55,920 Speaker 1: And right now it's an episode about the beginning of fall. 1730 01:31:55,960 --> 01:31:58,479 Speaker 1: Because it's officially fall and I'm drinking a pumpkin spice 1731 01:31:58,520 --> 01:32:01,800 Speaker 1: black coffee for you. It's also not officially fall yet. 1732 01:32:02,240 --> 01:32:04,320 Speaker 1: It may it may be officially fall by the time 1733 01:32:04,360 --> 01:32:07,160 Speaker 1: this podcast comes legally fall when I have my first 1734 01:32:07,200 --> 01:32:10,160 Speaker 1: pumpkin spice black coffee of the year and it's cool outside. 1735 01:32:10,400 --> 01:32:13,280 Speaker 1: That's because you're a monster. It's because I'm a happy 1736 01:32:13,320 --> 01:32:17,400 Speaker 1: man who is enjoying a fall beverage. On this episode today, 1737 01:32:17,520 --> 01:32:21,479 Speaker 1: we have, of course Garrison Garrison, Hello, Hi Garrison. Are 1738 01:32:21,520 --> 01:32:25,040 Speaker 1: you doing. I'm doing fine great. We also have my 1739 01:32:25,160 --> 01:32:28,600 Speaker 1: friends be in a lane b E lane. You you 1740 01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:31,280 Speaker 1: you were on the show recently to talk about terrorism 1741 01:32:31,320 --> 01:32:36,439 Speaker 1: a year ago. Ye, recently. Everything before yesterday is a 1742 01:32:36,560 --> 01:32:39,120 Speaker 1: year ago. And uh and now you're on to talk 1743 01:32:39,160 --> 01:32:46,639 Speaker 1: about surviving. Yeah. Yeah, like crafty surviving punk. Yeah. We 1744 01:32:46,680 --> 01:32:48,880 Speaker 1: we brought made it this far. You on because you 1745 01:32:48,920 --> 01:32:51,679 Speaker 1: were like two of the most useful skill filled people 1746 01:32:51,760 --> 01:32:55,800 Speaker 1: that I know. You're both wilderness survival instructors, primitive skill 1747 01:32:55,840 --> 01:32:59,040 Speaker 1: instructors for a while, and you have a small farm 1748 01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:01,280 Speaker 1: in a town that I won't name, and you do 1749 01:33:01,360 --> 01:33:03,800 Speaker 1: all sorts of cool ship like storing food and making 1750 01:33:03,960 --> 01:33:08,120 Speaker 1: arrows and other things that are alleged. And what I 1751 01:33:08,160 --> 01:33:09,960 Speaker 1: like about that is that, you know, we talk about 1752 01:33:09,960 --> 01:33:12,720 Speaker 1: like collapse and and things falling apart. There's this kind 1753 01:33:12,760 --> 01:33:16,160 Speaker 1: of like I don't know, almost like mimetic obsession with 1754 01:33:16,200 --> 01:33:17,600 Speaker 1: like I want to get out into the woods and 1755 01:33:17,640 --> 01:33:19,639 Speaker 1: away from the city, and that's the only way to survive, 1756 01:33:19,680 --> 01:33:22,240 Speaker 1: and like the reality of the situations, that's a terrible 1757 01:33:22,280 --> 01:33:24,599 Speaker 1: way to survive. It's awful. There's nobody in the wood. 1758 01:33:24,640 --> 01:33:28,519 Speaker 1: There's nobody in the woods and people and it's you know, 1759 01:33:28,600 --> 01:33:31,120 Speaker 1: there's there are there are a small chunk of the 1760 01:33:31,200 --> 01:33:34,599 Speaker 1: human race that is capable with with just themselves of 1761 01:33:34,640 --> 01:33:38,600 Speaker 1: like surviving in the middle of nowhere with nobody. But 1762 01:33:38,680 --> 01:33:41,599 Speaker 1: there's even among that population, there's a small fraction who 1763 01:33:41,640 --> 01:33:44,479 Speaker 1: are capable of doing that and not shooting themselves after 1764 01:33:44,520 --> 01:33:46,920 Speaker 1: a long enough period of time, and you wouldn't want 1765 01:33:46,920 --> 01:33:49,160 Speaker 1: to meet that person generally. Well, And I think the 1766 01:33:49,200 --> 01:33:51,519 Speaker 1: other the other thing about that is like the sort 1767 01:33:51,560 --> 01:33:57,559 Speaker 1: of fetishization of of you know, individualists survival skills is 1768 01:33:58,479 --> 01:34:01,639 Speaker 1: based on this idea that what people when people were 1769 01:34:01,680 --> 01:34:04,640 Speaker 1: like living off the land, that they were doing it 1770 01:34:04,840 --> 01:34:11,040 Speaker 1: by themselves alone. Community. There's very few people that survived 1771 01:34:11,120 --> 01:34:13,679 Speaker 1: alone for a long time, and even of the people 1772 01:34:13,680 --> 01:34:16,760 Speaker 1: that had the skills, like even she wandered out of 1773 01:34:16,800 --> 01:34:19,920 Speaker 1: the woods after I think eight years of being by 1774 01:34:20,000 --> 01:34:26,080 Speaker 1: himself and was finally like fuck it. He was the 1775 01:34:26,160 --> 01:34:31,040 Speaker 1: last of a indigenous group in California where everyone else 1776 01:34:31,040 --> 01:34:34,600 Speaker 1: in his tribe had been basically with been genocided and 1777 01:34:34,800 --> 01:34:39,599 Speaker 1: him and like the last like five people went off 1778 01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:42,559 Speaker 1: and hid for very good reason. Um And then after 1779 01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:45,479 Speaker 1: disease and stuff, then it was just him, and he 1780 01:34:45,560 --> 01:34:48,760 Speaker 1: spent I forget how many years by himself, and after 1781 01:34:48,840 --> 01:34:52,240 Speaker 1: a while he finally was like, fuck it, being by 1782 01:34:52,240 --> 01:34:53,800 Speaker 1: myself is not worth it, and he came out, and 1783 01:34:53,840 --> 01:34:56,599 Speaker 1: it was just after the turn of the century, and 1784 01:34:56,720 --> 01:35:00,000 Speaker 1: so he ended up being adopted by a bunch of 1785 01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:02,839 Speaker 1: anthropologists and spending the rest of his time in San Francisco. 1786 01:35:02,840 --> 01:35:04,960 Speaker 1: It's actually where we get most of a lot of 1787 01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:07,960 Speaker 1: like the anthropological knowledge of how to make arrows, because 1788 01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:10,800 Speaker 1: he was very much like, I'm the last of my group, 1789 01:35:11,000 --> 01:35:13,320 Speaker 1: so I will actually show people how to do flint 1790 01:35:13,400 --> 01:35:15,840 Speaker 1: napping and how I make arrows and how I hunt 1791 01:35:15,920 --> 01:35:19,240 Speaker 1: and yeah, and that's but I mean, and that's there's 1792 01:35:19,280 --> 01:35:21,479 Speaker 1: kind of the point there that like, with all of 1793 01:35:21,520 --> 01:35:23,800 Speaker 1: those skills, being one of that very small number of people, 1794 01:35:23,800 --> 01:35:26,040 Speaker 1: who could you drop that guy alone with nothing in 1795 01:35:26,080 --> 01:35:28,240 Speaker 1: the woods and he'll figure it out. He didn't want 1796 01:35:28,280 --> 01:35:33,439 Speaker 1: to do that because it's miserable. He in fact went 1797 01:35:33,720 --> 01:35:36,920 Speaker 1: into San Francisco and was like, well, white people wiped 1798 01:35:36,920 --> 01:35:42,760 Speaker 1: out my entire gonna make friends with these anthropologists that 1799 01:35:42,840 --> 01:35:45,840 Speaker 1: live with them and teach them what I know. Yeah, again, 1800 01:35:45,840 --> 01:35:47,360 Speaker 1: a lot of the folks who are kind of reaching 1801 01:35:47,360 --> 01:35:48,800 Speaker 1: out online being like, hey, I don't have a lot 1802 01:35:48,800 --> 01:35:50,439 Speaker 1: in the way of money. I'm never gonna be able 1803 01:35:50,439 --> 01:35:53,040 Speaker 1: to move to the woods and buy a farm or something. Well, 1804 01:35:53,080 --> 01:35:55,280 Speaker 1: you don't. You don't really need to, And like if 1805 01:35:55,320 --> 01:35:57,519 Speaker 1: shi it really does hit the fan. Where you live, 1806 01:35:57,560 --> 01:36:01,759 Speaker 1: there's probably parks, unless it's Detroit, UM, in which case 1807 01:36:02,320 --> 01:36:04,720 Speaker 1: there's abandoned Walmart's. Like you can make it work, like 1808 01:36:04,760 --> 01:36:07,479 Speaker 1: there's it's so So this is an episode about kind 1809 01:36:07,479 --> 01:36:10,120 Speaker 1: of the skills that you can acquire and build for 1810 01:36:10,200 --> 01:36:12,800 Speaker 1: not a lot of money, more or less wherever you 1811 01:36:12,880 --> 01:36:16,679 Speaker 1: live that will help you build resiliency UM, but also 1812 01:36:16,680 --> 01:36:19,200 Speaker 1: build resiliency is part of a community, as opposed to 1813 01:36:19,520 --> 01:36:21,760 Speaker 1: living in the woods with a knife, sleeping under mud. 1814 01:36:23,160 --> 01:36:25,639 Speaker 1: There's a great short story that you'll turned me onto 1815 01:36:25,680 --> 01:36:28,720 Speaker 1: by Cory Doctor in a book of short stories called Radicalized. 1816 01:36:28,760 --> 01:36:30,280 Speaker 1: That was was it just called The Mask of the 1817 01:36:30,320 --> 01:36:33,280 Speaker 1: Red Death? I mean that's called The Master. Yeah. The 1818 01:36:33,280 --> 01:36:36,240 Speaker 1: original Mask of the Red Death is set obviously during UM. 1819 01:36:36,240 --> 01:36:38,599 Speaker 1: I'm sure everybody read it in high school, like right, 1820 01:36:38,640 --> 01:36:41,439 Speaker 1: It's is set during the Bubonic Plague with these rich 1821 01:36:41,479 --> 01:36:43,600 Speaker 1: people who like decided just hold up in party to 1822 01:36:43,720 --> 01:36:46,160 Speaker 1: escape the plague and they all die of the plague. 1823 01:36:46,720 --> 01:36:50,759 Speaker 1: And doctors is a bunch of like libertarians, survivalist crypto 1824 01:36:50,840 --> 01:36:54,000 Speaker 1: bros who build a fortress in the desert in order 1825 01:36:54,040 --> 01:36:56,599 Speaker 1: to survive the end of days. And it turns out 1826 01:36:56,640 --> 01:36:58,679 Speaker 1: that like a bunch of bad stuff happens, like there's 1827 01:36:58,760 --> 01:37:02,360 Speaker 1: disease and in civil conflict, but like people figure it out, 1828 01:37:02,360 --> 01:37:04,840 Speaker 1: and all of the crypto bros die shooting themselves to 1829 01:37:04,840 --> 01:37:10,240 Speaker 1: death because the water system. It's obvious from the start 1830 01:37:10,280 --> 01:37:13,200 Speaker 1: what's going and everybody who comes along to help them, 1831 01:37:13,360 --> 01:37:17,040 Speaker 1: they start shooting because you will just wait until you're dead, 1832 01:37:17,080 --> 01:37:19,880 Speaker 1: because you're shooting yourself because your water is bad. I 1833 01:37:19,880 --> 01:37:21,840 Speaker 1: think we all have, we all have elements of some 1834 01:37:21,880 --> 01:37:25,120 Speaker 1: libertarian tendencies in US, which you know, it's not bad 1835 01:37:25,160 --> 01:37:27,679 Speaker 1: to learn self reliance, and it's certainly not not even 1836 01:37:27,720 --> 01:37:30,440 Speaker 1: bad to want to like live outside of the city. 1837 01:37:30,800 --> 01:37:33,479 Speaker 1: But in a lot of ways, living in a living 1838 01:37:33,479 --> 01:37:36,680 Speaker 1: in an urban environment surrounded by a community, depending on 1839 01:37:36,680 --> 01:37:39,919 Speaker 1: the situation, can be even more resilient because like, yeah, 1840 01:37:39,960 --> 01:37:43,120 Speaker 1: an isolated farm instead there's benefits to but also it's 1841 01:37:43,120 --> 01:37:45,240 Speaker 1: really easy to surround and just shoot people who were 1842 01:37:45,439 --> 01:37:47,240 Speaker 1: living on their farm in the middle of nowhere. If 1843 01:37:47,320 --> 01:37:50,200 Speaker 1: ship really does hit the fani happening, it happens all 1844 01:37:50,240 --> 01:37:52,240 Speaker 1: the time. It happened in like Al Salvador and ship 1845 01:37:52,280 --> 01:37:54,519 Speaker 1: when they had their economic crash. So, I don't know, 1846 01:37:54,640 --> 01:37:55,840 Speaker 1: where do you want to Where do you guys want 1847 01:37:55,880 --> 01:37:58,360 Speaker 1: to start? Oh? I know you had a couple of 1848 01:37:58,400 --> 01:38:01,040 Speaker 1: different things that you want the want to talk about, 1849 01:38:01,080 --> 01:38:03,720 Speaker 1: Like preserving food is a big one, and then I 1850 01:38:03,760 --> 01:38:08,360 Speaker 1: mean making stuff and doing things is kind of they're 1851 01:38:08,400 --> 01:38:10,240 Speaker 1: sort of different. Where would you like to actually start 1852 01:38:10,280 --> 01:38:11,800 Speaker 1: with that? I think we can start with kind of 1853 01:38:11,840 --> 01:38:14,559 Speaker 1: the d I Y element, branching off of our original 1854 01:38:14,560 --> 01:38:17,599 Speaker 1: discussion on primitive skills, and then in like parts two, 1855 01:38:17,640 --> 01:38:19,840 Speaker 1: we can go more into like food and like sting 1856 01:38:19,880 --> 01:38:23,760 Speaker 1: like in like foraging, um and preservation and stuff. Cool. 1857 01:38:24,040 --> 01:38:28,519 Speaker 1: I mean, so d I why um? I guess now 1858 01:38:28,560 --> 01:38:32,840 Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff about, Like there's I don't know, 1859 01:38:32,880 --> 01:38:35,519 Speaker 1: there's all this stuff of like survival skills and all 1860 01:38:35,560 --> 01:38:38,400 Speaker 1: this stuff, and both of us kind of came into 1861 01:38:39,400 --> 01:38:41,160 Speaker 1: the idea of making stuff and doing things by being 1862 01:38:41,200 --> 01:38:45,080 Speaker 1: punks um. And it's kind of yeah, having no money, 1863 01:38:45,120 --> 01:38:48,720 Speaker 1: but also just their d I Y like do it 1864 01:38:48,720 --> 01:38:53,320 Speaker 1: Yourself was a very like kind of nineties punk thing 1865 01:38:53,360 --> 01:38:55,800 Speaker 1: that came into the mainstream. Like I actually was pulling 1866 01:38:55,800 --> 01:38:57,519 Speaker 1: out some of my old books, and I think it's 1867 01:38:57,560 --> 01:39:01,320 Speaker 1: funny to see the like progression because I have, you know, 1868 01:39:01,600 --> 01:39:04,679 Speaker 1: the really lovely like Food Not Lawns that goes into 1869 01:39:04,720 --> 01:39:09,040 Speaker 1: a whole pile of really fantastic things that came out 1870 01:39:09,400 --> 01:39:12,160 Speaker 1: that I don't know. The first Food Not Lawns house 1871 01:39:12,200 --> 01:39:15,439 Speaker 1: I saw at the Town as in was in like 1872 01:39:15,640 --> 01:39:18,240 Speaker 1: two thousand five or six, but this book came out 1873 01:39:18,240 --> 01:39:19,840 Speaker 1: in two thousand and six. But it was this entire 1874 01:39:19,920 --> 01:39:23,320 Speaker 1: movement of like making community and doing and like how 1875 01:39:23,360 --> 01:39:27,240 Speaker 1: to do stuff yourself on your front lawn. Yeah, and 1876 01:39:27,280 --> 01:39:30,880 Speaker 1: then I have from eleven the bus d i Y 1877 01:39:30,920 --> 01:39:33,559 Speaker 1: Guide to Life that includes everything from like how to 1878 01:39:33,600 --> 01:39:36,160 Speaker 1: do worm composting to how to make your own makeup 1879 01:39:36,320 --> 01:39:40,320 Speaker 1: and like finance the house. And that's that's like the magazine, right. Yes, 1880 01:39:40,720 --> 01:39:43,519 Speaker 1: So it's kind of interesting because it definitely like was 1881 01:39:43,560 --> 01:39:46,960 Speaker 1: the thing that I watched come into the mainstream. But 1882 01:39:47,680 --> 01:39:52,800 Speaker 1: you know, it started as a lot of punks trying 1883 01:39:52,800 --> 01:39:54,639 Speaker 1: to figure out how to do things because they had 1884 01:39:54,680 --> 01:39:58,800 Speaker 1: no money and but also different from a lot of 1885 01:39:58,840 --> 01:40:01,280 Speaker 1: you know, like woodworking or draft books that really are 1886 01:40:01,400 --> 01:40:04,719 Speaker 1: you know by these seven thousand dollars worth of tools 1887 01:40:04,800 --> 01:40:09,800 Speaker 1: and now you too can learn Yes. And there's also 1888 01:40:09,960 --> 01:40:13,280 Speaker 1: there's also an ethos behind it, right that, like before 1889 01:40:13,920 --> 01:40:16,360 Speaker 1: I was, I came at it first and foremost through 1890 01:40:16,400 --> 01:40:19,439 Speaker 1: being like a bike punk in the in the late 1891 01:40:19,560 --> 01:40:21,920 Speaker 1: nineties early two thousand's, being a bike punk, and the 1892 01:40:22,000 --> 01:40:25,800 Speaker 1: idea of like the d I y ethos was less 1893 01:40:25,840 --> 01:40:30,360 Speaker 1: about the grid is going to collapse and like everything 1894 01:40:30,439 --> 01:40:32,120 Speaker 1: is going to fall apart and you're going to need 1895 01:40:32,160 --> 01:40:34,320 Speaker 1: to survive by the skin of your teeth, and it 1896 01:40:34,439 --> 01:40:37,160 Speaker 1: was a lot more, you know, at the tail end 1897 01:40:37,200 --> 01:40:40,880 Speaker 1: of the nineties and like the sort of golden era 1898 01:40:41,000 --> 01:40:45,200 Speaker 1: of neoliberal capitalism and office space and that whole cultural moment, 1899 01:40:45,680 --> 01:40:49,920 Speaker 1: the idea that life was alienated and shitty and it 1900 01:40:50,080 --> 01:40:53,160 Speaker 1: felt better to know how to do things that you 1901 01:40:53,240 --> 01:40:56,120 Speaker 1: needed in your day to day life for yourself, using 1902 01:40:56,160 --> 01:40:59,320 Speaker 1: stuff you had made yourself or gotten from your community members. 1903 01:41:00,280 --> 01:41:03,000 Speaker 1: Yet resiliency is less about knowing you have a pile 1904 01:41:03,040 --> 01:41:05,040 Speaker 1: of dried food in the house and know more about 1905 01:41:05,160 --> 01:41:07,200 Speaker 1: looking at fresh food and knowing, I know how to 1906 01:41:07,240 --> 01:41:09,639 Speaker 1: make that last the winter yeah, And it's been interesting 1907 01:41:09,680 --> 01:41:11,880 Speaker 1: to see the way that like as that has gotten 1908 01:41:11,920 --> 01:41:17,840 Speaker 1: kind of mainstreamed into like, you know, the the what 1909 01:41:18,000 --> 01:41:21,120 Speaker 1: is it primitive. There's a bunch of different like primitive 1910 01:41:21,280 --> 01:41:23,920 Speaker 1: x y Z YouTube channels that get lots of shot 1911 01:41:24,000 --> 01:41:26,719 Speaker 1: wreck and ship, and as that all gets mainstreamed, there's 1912 01:41:26,760 --> 01:41:29,840 Speaker 1: this idea of like expertise that creeps back into it. 1913 01:41:30,240 --> 01:41:33,559 Speaker 1: And d I Y was like firmly committed to the 1914 01:41:33,600 --> 01:41:38,719 Speaker 1: idea that everybody could learn stuff and listening to somebody 1915 01:41:38,720 --> 01:41:40,920 Speaker 1: who said they were an expert was a trap. And 1916 01:41:40,920 --> 01:41:42,200 Speaker 1: a lot of that was coming out of like the 1917 01:41:42,240 --> 01:41:44,360 Speaker 1: seventies when there was all of the like you know, 1918 01:41:44,680 --> 01:41:48,439 Speaker 1: CULTI lifestyle ship that was like, hey, look we're gonna 1919 01:41:48,479 --> 01:41:51,120 Speaker 1: teach you how to change your life, and yeah, we're 1920 01:41:51,120 --> 01:41:53,560 Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna buy up all this land and Antelope, 1921 01:41:53,600 --> 01:41:57,439 Speaker 1: Oregon and and so d I Y was exactly not 1922 01:41:57,520 --> 01:42:00,120 Speaker 1: that it was like their's skills and you can and 1923 01:42:00,200 --> 01:42:03,120 Speaker 1: skills and the Internet doesn't really exist yet or not really, 1924 01:42:03,200 --> 01:42:05,000 Speaker 1: so you can read books about it and you can 1925 01:42:05,120 --> 01:42:07,800 Speaker 1: have skills fare because there wasn't Twitter. We also all 1926 01:42:07,840 --> 01:42:12,840 Speaker 1: had a lot more time on our hands. But there's 1927 01:42:12,880 --> 01:42:17,960 Speaker 1: also like expertise was something that was handy to have, 1928 01:42:18,160 --> 01:42:22,880 Speaker 1: you know, like if I needed to rebuild my wheel 1929 01:42:22,960 --> 01:42:26,080 Speaker 1: on my bike and respoke it, somebody who knew how 1930 01:42:26,080 --> 01:42:27,760 Speaker 1: to do it, And so it's good to have a 1931 01:42:27,800 --> 01:42:31,799 Speaker 1: couple of people who had really intense, deep knowledge of skills. 1932 01:42:32,240 --> 01:42:34,800 Speaker 1: But the idea that you would ask someone like I 1933 01:42:34,840 --> 01:42:37,320 Speaker 1: need to change my bike tire two because I popped 1934 01:42:37,320 --> 01:42:39,679 Speaker 1: it with everyone would have been kind of like really 1935 01:42:40,080 --> 01:42:43,040 Speaker 1: really like everyone should know how to do basic stuff 1936 01:42:43,080 --> 01:42:45,680 Speaker 1: and it's and it's okay. Like the whole you know, 1937 01:42:45,840 --> 01:42:50,400 Speaker 1: Jack of all Trades was is as a desirable goal, 1938 01:42:50,479 --> 01:42:53,960 Speaker 1: like it's okay to dabble in a million little things 1939 01:42:54,080 --> 01:42:56,559 Speaker 1: and be kind of mediocre, but have a sort of 1940 01:42:56,600 --> 01:42:59,800 Speaker 1: baseline understanding of a bunch of stuff. Now, you know, 1941 01:42:59,800 --> 01:43:02,240 Speaker 1: they places that I kind of think that we went 1942 01:43:02,280 --> 01:43:07,200 Speaker 1: too far. But also, you know, before the American Healthcare Act, 1943 01:43:08,080 --> 01:43:11,240 Speaker 1: we all definitely did a lot of at home medcare 1944 01:43:11,280 --> 01:43:14,160 Speaker 1: that we should not have. But there's also a lot 1945 01:43:14,200 --> 01:43:17,360 Speaker 1: of low stakes places that I think people have gotten 1946 01:43:17,400 --> 01:43:21,559 Speaker 1: away from just practicing and trying all sorts of crafty 1947 01:43:21,600 --> 01:43:24,000 Speaker 1: stuff as an ethos that is actually really good and 1948 01:43:24,040 --> 01:43:27,000 Speaker 1: there's no harm to learning things like you're not going 1949 01:43:27,080 --> 01:43:28,800 Speaker 1: to quote anything, and the only thing that's going to 1950 01:43:28,880 --> 01:43:31,280 Speaker 1: happen is you will have more skills and more to 1951 01:43:31,360 --> 01:43:35,480 Speaker 1: offer the people around you. There's this idea under capitalism 1952 01:43:35,479 --> 01:43:37,600 Speaker 1: that we should all specialize because that is like the 1953 01:43:37,640 --> 01:43:40,840 Speaker 1: most profit generating thing to do is just specialize anything 1954 01:43:40,880 --> 01:43:43,080 Speaker 1: that makes you the most money. But it's like, not 1955 01:43:43,160 --> 01:43:47,080 Speaker 1: only is it like not the best in a dangerous 1956 01:43:47,080 --> 01:43:49,439 Speaker 1: situation to only know how to do one thing that 1957 01:43:49,479 --> 01:43:51,519 Speaker 1: makes you money, but it's like it's not particularly good 1958 01:43:51,560 --> 01:43:55,519 Speaker 1: for your soul either. And there's also lots of different 1959 01:43:55,800 --> 01:44:01,719 Speaker 1: behavioral psychology, like group analysis of if you present people 1960 01:44:01,760 --> 01:44:06,360 Speaker 1: with a situation that they feel unprepared for and there's 1961 01:44:06,000 --> 01:44:08,640 Speaker 1: a person that they identify as an expert in a 1962 01:44:08,680 --> 01:44:11,639 Speaker 1: group who they can defer to pretty much every time, 1963 01:44:11,840 --> 01:44:14,360 Speaker 1: the group that's like, oh, we'll defer to this one 1964 01:44:14,439 --> 01:44:18,559 Speaker 1: expert because they know everything and we'll just do whatever 1965 01:44:18,600 --> 01:44:22,120 Speaker 1: they say ends up making worse decisions. Then if you 1966 01:44:22,160 --> 01:44:25,120 Speaker 1: have a group where everybody feels like, oh, well, I 1967 01:44:25,240 --> 01:44:28,240 Speaker 1: like I can at least get a handle on what's 1968 01:44:28,280 --> 01:44:30,439 Speaker 1: going on and we can all talk through it and 1969 01:44:30,479 --> 01:44:36,960 Speaker 1: like make make calls deferring to experts doesn't necessarily help 1970 01:44:37,040 --> 01:44:41,360 Speaker 1: you know that there's obviously cases we've mentioned medical care already, 1971 01:44:41,400 --> 01:44:45,800 Speaker 1: where like there's actually knowledge is very important. Skill sets 1972 01:44:45,840 --> 01:44:48,160 Speaker 1: are very important. But the idea that there's people who 1973 01:44:48,240 --> 01:44:52,160 Speaker 1: are just like, yeah, inherently more knowledgeable of things that 1974 01:44:52,240 --> 01:44:58,400 Speaker 1: you couldn't possibly understand. Is so where where do you 1975 01:44:58,439 --> 01:45:01,519 Speaker 1: recommend Like people's like, like like, you've got a bunch of 1976 01:45:01,520 --> 01:45:03,839 Speaker 1: books right now, and obviously, if you can afford books, 1977 01:45:03,880 --> 01:45:09,040 Speaker 1: that's a good call. A lot of these books on 1978 01:45:09,120 --> 01:45:11,679 Speaker 1: a preserving food and like growing stuff on your lawn, 1979 01:45:11,760 --> 01:45:14,320 Speaker 1: but even if you don't have a lawn, you can still, Like, 1980 01:45:14,360 --> 01:45:16,639 Speaker 1: there's certain like one thing that strikes me because we've 1981 01:45:16,640 --> 01:45:19,880 Speaker 1: been canning and pickling a bunch lately, is you know, 1982 01:45:20,080 --> 01:45:23,479 Speaker 1: different vegetables and fruits and whatnot are cheaper at different 1983 01:45:23,479 --> 01:45:25,320 Speaker 1: points in the year. And even if you live in 1984 01:45:25,360 --> 01:45:28,120 Speaker 1: an apartment in the inner city and will never have 1985 01:45:28,200 --> 01:45:30,960 Speaker 1: more than a garden box at best, you can buy 1986 01:45:31,000 --> 01:45:34,519 Speaker 1: food when it's cheap and preserve it um and not 1987 01:45:34,600 --> 01:45:36,800 Speaker 1: only save yourself a little bit of money, but you 1988 01:45:36,840 --> 01:45:41,600 Speaker 1: can like also, uh, you'll you'll understand every time you 1989 01:45:41,720 --> 01:45:44,360 Speaker 1: encounter preserved food and like a grocery store. You'll be 1990 01:45:44,360 --> 01:45:46,599 Speaker 1: looking at a thing that you know where it comes from. 1991 01:45:46,640 --> 01:45:49,240 Speaker 1: It's not just like a mystery jar of preserved food 1992 01:45:49,280 --> 01:45:53,400 Speaker 1: that was made by some process of science. So I 1993 01:45:53,439 --> 01:45:56,639 Speaker 1: don't know, I'm interested in, like where you guys someone 1994 01:45:56,720 --> 01:46:00,760 Speaker 1: coming in having only uh specialized and whatever it is 1995 01:46:00,800 --> 01:46:03,880 Speaker 1: allowed them to pay the rent? Where Where where's your 1996 01:46:03,880 --> 01:46:07,800 Speaker 1: where's your recommended start point? For people? UM, I think 1997 01:46:07,800 --> 01:46:12,640 Speaker 1: it's picking something that is low stakes that you enjoy. 1998 01:46:12,680 --> 01:46:17,200 Speaker 1: Like honestly, one of my friends, um, her entry into 1999 01:46:17,240 --> 01:46:20,559 Speaker 1: doing d I Y stuff was, you know, she had 2000 01:46:20,640 --> 01:46:22,280 Speaker 1: lots of makeup and everything, and she was like, I'm 2001 01:46:22,280 --> 01:46:24,599 Speaker 1: going to make body scrubs? How do I do that? 2002 01:46:24,760 --> 01:46:27,719 Speaker 1: And you know, looked up how to make body scrubs? 2003 01:46:27,720 --> 01:46:30,000 Speaker 1: How to make you know. A lot of it is, 2004 01:46:30,120 --> 01:46:34,479 Speaker 1: oh getting salt and grinding up rosemary that she found 2005 01:46:34,520 --> 01:46:37,040 Speaker 1: in someone's front yard and putting it together, you know, 2006 01:46:37,200 --> 01:46:41,439 Speaker 1: but just something simple that you enjoy, that you would 2007 01:46:41,840 --> 01:46:44,880 Speaker 1: love to be able to, you know, have a little 2008 01:46:44,920 --> 01:46:49,160 Speaker 1: bit more say over because it's most basic. A lot 2009 01:46:49,160 --> 01:46:50,599 Speaker 1: of the d I Y stuff is you can make 2010 01:46:50,640 --> 01:46:55,360 Speaker 1: something very specific to what you like. So for myself, 2011 01:46:55,360 --> 01:46:57,200 Speaker 1: actually one of the first things I ever started doing 2012 01:46:57,240 --> 01:47:00,360 Speaker 1: was in high school, just altering clothing. I had an 2013 01:47:00,360 --> 01:47:07,120 Speaker 1: old yeah, I had an old thirty dollar junk practice 2014 01:47:07,560 --> 01:47:11,240 Speaker 1: uh like kids sewing machine and just the cheapest one 2015 01:47:11,280 --> 01:47:17,040 Speaker 1: that Sears used to sell, and could definitely just take 2016 01:47:17,120 --> 01:47:20,519 Speaker 1: that and start putting scenes in an altar clothing. And 2017 01:47:20,680 --> 01:47:22,400 Speaker 1: like this shirt is now a T shirt, it was 2018 01:47:22,479 --> 01:47:25,880 Speaker 1: long sleep before. And that also ties in with you know, 2019 01:47:26,200 --> 01:47:28,439 Speaker 1: d I I just to sound like old punks for 2020 01:47:28,479 --> 01:47:30,760 Speaker 1: a minute. That d I I definitely also came out 2021 01:47:30,840 --> 01:47:33,439 Speaker 1: of things like the riot girl scene in a big way, 2022 01:47:33,560 --> 01:47:38,479 Speaker 1: and like the attention to like body awareness and like 2023 01:47:38,640 --> 01:47:43,160 Speaker 1: moving away from body negativity and the recognition that as 2024 01:47:43,160 --> 01:47:47,000 Speaker 1: a general rule, off the rack clothes are not and 2025 01:47:47,160 --> 01:47:52,519 Speaker 1: certainly twenty years ago were extra not actually designed to 2026 01:47:52,640 --> 01:47:55,519 Speaker 1: fit most people's bodies, and it was hard to find 2027 01:47:55,600 --> 01:47:58,599 Speaker 1: clothes that fit you right. And yeah, so like sewing 2028 01:47:58,720 --> 01:48:03,240 Speaker 1: was a big one. Bikes because we were broken, didn't 2029 01:48:03,280 --> 01:48:05,559 Speaker 1: have cars, so figuring out how to fix bikes and 2030 01:48:05,640 --> 01:48:08,920 Speaker 1: you know, everything that mechanically happens on a bike is 2031 01:48:09,040 --> 01:48:10,800 Speaker 1: right there and you can see it happen, and it 2032 01:48:10,840 --> 01:48:14,200 Speaker 1: maybe requires a screwdriver and then eventually maybe some other 2033 01:48:14,200 --> 01:48:16,840 Speaker 1: tools but there's lots of and there's three resources. A 2034 01:48:16,880 --> 01:48:19,160 Speaker 1: lot most cities I've spent any amount of time and 2035 01:48:19,200 --> 01:48:21,920 Speaker 1: you can find like you can find like a community 2036 01:48:21,920 --> 01:48:24,120 Speaker 1: bike shop where if you have to pay anything, it's 2037 01:48:24,200 --> 01:48:26,000 Speaker 1: very minimal, And a lot of cases are just sort 2038 01:48:26,000 --> 01:48:29,639 Speaker 1: of like show up and you know there's space to use. 2039 01:48:29,880 --> 01:48:33,920 Speaker 1: Yeah when um, Like I know in Santa Cruz there 2040 01:48:33,960 --> 01:48:36,200 Speaker 1: was the bike Church. In Portland there's the bike Farm 2041 01:48:36,400 --> 01:48:38,880 Speaker 1: and yeah, and Philly there was also a bike church 2042 01:48:38,920 --> 01:48:41,719 Speaker 1: because it turns out the basements of churches are are 2043 01:48:41,720 --> 01:48:43,559 Speaker 1: There were a couple of spots like that in Dallas 2044 01:48:43,640 --> 01:48:46,160 Speaker 1: and it's uh yeah. And I think it is like 2045 01:48:46,200 --> 01:48:49,000 Speaker 1: this mix of, like with the body scrub stuff, like 2046 01:48:49,040 --> 01:48:51,200 Speaker 1: what is something that appeals to you that you you're 2047 01:48:51,200 --> 01:48:53,240 Speaker 1: interested in? And also what is with the bike stuff, 2048 01:48:53,520 --> 01:48:56,640 Speaker 1: what is something that's like just doggedly practical, Like you 2049 01:48:56,680 --> 01:48:58,639 Speaker 1: get a bike, you need a bike to get around, 2050 01:48:58,640 --> 01:49:01,200 Speaker 1: you should probably know how to ship on it. I 2051 01:49:01,240 --> 01:49:03,280 Speaker 1: think the reason I say you should pick something that 2052 01:49:03,520 --> 01:49:09,360 Speaker 1: appeals to you especially is because a big thing with 2053 01:49:09,680 --> 01:49:12,080 Speaker 1: d I Y was that you're doing it yourself, and 2054 01:49:13,360 --> 01:49:15,679 Speaker 1: there are so many skills that are valuable to learn 2055 01:49:15,720 --> 01:49:18,879 Speaker 1: from other people. It is wonderful to craft in community, 2056 01:49:18,920 --> 01:49:21,599 Speaker 1: it is wonderful to work with other people in community. 2057 01:49:21,680 --> 01:49:25,040 Speaker 1: It's wonderful to teach skills and gain them. But also 2058 01:49:26,240 --> 01:49:30,840 Speaker 1: I've seen this growing idea with the as specialization for 2059 01:49:31,439 --> 01:49:35,320 Speaker 1: so many things, especially services comes in that people are 2060 01:49:35,320 --> 01:49:38,920 Speaker 1: always like, oh, wow, knitting, I've always wanted to learn. 2061 01:49:39,000 --> 01:49:40,559 Speaker 1: I need to take a class in that, or I 2062 01:49:40,600 --> 01:49:43,280 Speaker 1: need to And it's really important, I think, for people 2063 01:49:43,320 --> 01:49:47,920 Speaker 1: to realize that you can learn things. We are very 2064 01:49:47,960 --> 01:49:50,559 Speaker 1: good at learning things, and you don't necessarily need a 2065 01:49:50,600 --> 01:49:53,360 Speaker 1: teacher for more complex things you do. But starting with 2066 01:49:53,439 --> 01:49:57,120 Speaker 1: something that you really like and that you find really interesting, 2067 01:49:57,439 --> 01:50:00,559 Speaker 1: you've already thought about it. So when you start with 2068 01:50:00,600 --> 01:50:03,400 Speaker 1: you know, for my friends, starting with making bath salts 2069 01:50:03,400 --> 01:50:05,559 Speaker 1: and face masks and stuff, it was something she had 2070 01:50:05,560 --> 01:50:09,280 Speaker 1: already been thinking about quite a bit and thinking about stuff. 2071 01:50:09,280 --> 01:50:12,000 Speaker 1: So when she started looking at recipes to mix and 2072 01:50:12,040 --> 01:50:14,360 Speaker 1: looking on the internet and looking at ingredients, it was 2073 01:50:14,400 --> 01:50:18,120 Speaker 1: saying she already cared about. So it's easier to learn 2074 01:50:18,200 --> 01:50:20,600 Speaker 1: something that you are interested in, and it's easier to 2075 01:50:20,640 --> 01:50:24,439 Speaker 1: learn something that you want to do. But we are 2076 01:50:24,479 --> 01:50:29,120 Speaker 1: all capable of learning for ourselves, not every single thing, 2077 01:50:29,120 --> 01:50:31,960 Speaker 1: but especially just for craft projects. And so starting with 2078 01:50:32,000 --> 01:50:34,000 Speaker 1: that so that you can pick up a book, or 2079 01:50:34,080 --> 01:50:36,040 Speaker 1: you can read an article, or you can watch a 2080 01:50:36,080 --> 01:50:38,960 Speaker 1: YouTube video and you don't need to take some like 2081 01:50:39,720 --> 01:50:43,839 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty dollar a weekend class before you can. It's, 2082 01:50:43,880 --> 01:50:46,479 Speaker 1: you know, a big part of the resiliency building. Like 2083 01:50:46,520 --> 01:50:49,640 Speaker 1: something you may scoff like when you're thinking about survivalism 2084 01:50:50,400 --> 01:50:52,840 Speaker 1: and talking about like making bath scrubs, but a lot 2085 01:50:52,880 --> 01:50:56,160 Speaker 1: of the skills you would learn putting that together are 2086 01:50:56,280 --> 01:50:59,880 Speaker 1: useful in making like a salve or making like a soap, 2087 01:51:00,200 --> 01:51:02,840 Speaker 1: making soap things that you actually need. Like when I 2088 01:51:02,920 --> 01:51:05,160 Speaker 1: was traveling, I lived on the road, like out of 2089 01:51:05,160 --> 01:51:07,320 Speaker 1: a car and out of backpacks, off and on all 2090 01:51:07,320 --> 01:51:08,680 Speaker 1: over the world for years, and I would make my 2091 01:51:08,720 --> 01:51:10,840 Speaker 1: own medicated because we would get we would be get 2092 01:51:10,840 --> 01:51:13,360 Speaker 1: cuts and scrapes and rashes, and we were poor as 2093 01:51:13,360 --> 01:51:15,479 Speaker 1: ship and often there weren't doctors where we were. So 2094 01:51:15,560 --> 01:51:18,200 Speaker 1: I learned how to use things like plantain and comfrey 2095 01:51:18,240 --> 01:51:20,720 Speaker 1: and yarrow and like bees wax and stuff in order 2096 01:51:20,760 --> 01:51:23,960 Speaker 1: to to make medicated savs. And it it was something 2097 01:51:24,000 --> 01:51:26,200 Speaker 1: that interested me. But like there's also a lot of 2098 01:51:26,680 --> 01:51:29,760 Speaker 1: like there's there's a number of roots into learning that 2099 01:51:29,840 --> 01:51:31,320 Speaker 1: sort of thing. And if you're learning how to make 2100 01:51:31,360 --> 01:51:34,439 Speaker 1: again something as simple as like a face scrub, learning 2101 01:51:34,720 --> 01:51:37,559 Speaker 1: where to find that information for free learning some of 2102 01:51:37,560 --> 01:51:40,840 Speaker 1: like the basic techniques in order to do that. The 2103 01:51:41,720 --> 01:51:45,320 Speaker 1: learning how to learn is is applicable in a wider 2104 01:51:45,400 --> 01:51:48,680 Speaker 1: variety of skill sets, and it I think it's so 2105 01:51:48,720 --> 01:51:51,920 Speaker 1: important to focus on what are you what are you 2106 01:51:51,960 --> 01:51:54,160 Speaker 1: interested in first, as as opposed to just being like 2107 01:51:54,200 --> 01:51:55,920 Speaker 1: okay at first, Now I have to learn how to 2108 01:51:55,960 --> 01:51:58,599 Speaker 1: like splint a broken arm, because like the ship's gonna 2109 01:51:58,760 --> 01:52:00,880 Speaker 1: hit the fans, like well, to be focus on something 2110 01:52:00,880 --> 01:52:03,439 Speaker 1: that's more exciting to you first, and and and and 2111 01:52:03,479 --> 01:52:05,760 Speaker 1: build time in your life to learn things. That's an 2112 01:52:05,880 --> 01:52:08,479 Speaker 1: enjoyable process. One of the first things I did, like 2113 01:52:08,600 --> 01:52:11,519 Speaker 1: years ago, was I learned to sew, specifically to make 2114 01:52:11,560 --> 01:52:14,400 Speaker 1: a cause play because you know so, so I would 2115 01:52:14,439 --> 01:52:17,200 Speaker 1: just I would make me and my whole family different 2116 01:52:17,200 --> 01:52:19,280 Speaker 1: outfits for comic Con. So every year I would, I 2117 01:52:19,320 --> 01:52:21,720 Speaker 1: would sew us whole whole new things. But then not 2118 01:52:21,720 --> 01:52:23,400 Speaker 1: only taught me sewing, it taught me how to do 2119 01:52:23,479 --> 01:52:27,320 Speaker 1: like like vacuum forming to molding, how to use like 2120 01:52:27,360 --> 01:52:29,439 Speaker 1: a heat gun, how to use like all these other 2121 01:52:29,479 --> 01:52:32,599 Speaker 1: types of tools. Um, how do you like molding and casting? 2122 01:52:32,720 --> 01:52:35,840 Speaker 1: Like all of these types of things I learned just 2123 01:52:36,000 --> 01:52:38,280 Speaker 1: wanting to make silly costumes. But now they're like, you know, 2124 01:52:38,479 --> 01:52:40,280 Speaker 1: useful and a lot, a lot, a lot of other ways. 2125 01:52:40,680 --> 01:52:43,280 Speaker 1: And that can be that can be expensive at the 2126 01:52:43,360 --> 01:52:46,439 Speaker 1: high end when you're like vacuum forming and stuff your 2127 01:52:46,479 --> 01:52:49,599 Speaker 1: storm trooper armor. But the the cheapest side of that 2128 01:52:49,680 --> 01:52:52,400 Speaker 1: thing again, you can get a basic hand sewing kit 2129 01:52:52,479 --> 01:52:54,960 Speaker 1: for like five dollars from a Walmart. And there's also 2130 01:52:55,000 --> 01:52:59,240 Speaker 1: makers and there's maker spaces and like YouTube will do 2131 01:52:59,280 --> 01:53:01,000 Speaker 1: the teaching, you know, have to pay for a teacher. 2132 01:53:01,000 --> 01:53:03,479 Speaker 1: The Taliban learned how to fly helicopters. On YouTube, you 2133 01:53:03,520 --> 01:53:06,120 Speaker 1: can learn how to fix your pants. And then I 2134 01:53:06,160 --> 01:53:09,519 Speaker 1: think also you mentioned specialization before. It's come up a 2135 01:53:09,520 --> 01:53:12,479 Speaker 1: couple of times, um, and there is you know, the 2136 01:53:12,520 --> 01:53:16,400 Speaker 1: idea of specialization. The rationale behind specialization is, oh, well, 2137 01:53:16,400 --> 01:53:18,640 Speaker 1: you'll be better at it because that's what you do 2138 01:53:18,680 --> 01:53:22,240 Speaker 1: all the time. But that cuts both ways, because if 2139 01:53:22,280 --> 01:53:25,000 Speaker 1: you only do one thing all the time, then as 2140 01:53:25,280 --> 01:53:28,600 Speaker 1: you know, whatever the maximum threshold of your abilities is 2141 01:53:28,640 --> 01:53:32,240 Speaker 1: that's required of you that becomes your baseline, like whatever 2142 01:53:32,600 --> 01:53:34,439 Speaker 1: in your day to day life, whatever it is that 2143 01:53:34,479 --> 01:53:37,760 Speaker 1: you're being asked to do, that's what you feel capable of. 2144 01:53:38,120 --> 01:53:41,000 Speaker 1: And on the flip side, there's with with the d 2145 01:53:41,120 --> 01:53:44,280 Speaker 1: I I approach with like teaching yourself ship, learning interesting ship. 2146 01:53:44,880 --> 01:53:48,360 Speaker 1: It's also practical and important and useful to be like 2147 01:53:48,439 --> 01:53:50,120 Speaker 1: this is a thing that I'm gonna do on a 2148 01:53:50,160 --> 01:53:53,559 Speaker 1: regular basis, so I'll get better at it. But also 2149 01:53:53,640 --> 01:53:56,439 Speaker 1: it's not you know, there was you know, the whole 2150 01:53:56,479 --> 01:53:59,719 Speaker 1: idea of there's what you do and then there's your job, 2151 01:53:59,800 --> 01:54:02,400 Speaker 1: and that these need not be the same thing, because 2152 01:54:02,520 --> 01:54:05,759 Speaker 1: you want to be able to think, think through things 2153 01:54:06,000 --> 01:54:08,760 Speaker 1: in a way that's not the way you're supposed to 2154 01:54:08,760 --> 01:54:11,479 Speaker 1: process things to make your boss happy. That is not 2155 01:54:11,960 --> 01:54:13,800 Speaker 1: what you do when you clock. And you are more 2156 01:54:13,840 --> 01:54:16,920 Speaker 1: than your career, more than your career, and and and 2157 01:54:17,640 --> 01:54:21,519 Speaker 1: your skill set need not be purely extracted, as you know, 2158 01:54:21,680 --> 01:54:24,200 Speaker 1: not just like Okay, I have to go do the 2159 01:54:24,200 --> 01:54:26,280 Speaker 1: thing in order to make money, and then everything else 2160 01:54:26,400 --> 01:54:30,120 Speaker 1: is consumption, like you can you can transition like we're 2161 01:54:30,920 --> 01:54:33,240 Speaker 1: and this is not a societal level solution because we 2162 01:54:33,280 --> 01:54:35,000 Speaker 1: talk a lot about like, well, yeah, you're not gonna 2163 01:54:35,000 --> 01:54:37,720 Speaker 1: You're not gonna make small personal changes to fix climate change, 2164 01:54:38,120 --> 01:54:41,839 Speaker 1: but changing your own particular attitude on how you approach 2165 01:54:41,880 --> 01:54:44,520 Speaker 1: the world from one that is I I produce and 2166 01:54:44,560 --> 01:54:47,840 Speaker 1: that I consume to to when we're you're thinking more 2167 01:54:47,840 --> 01:54:49,680 Speaker 1: about resiliency and what do I know how to do 2168 01:54:49,720 --> 01:54:52,160 Speaker 1: and what can I learn how to do? UM is 2169 01:54:53,040 --> 01:54:58,000 Speaker 1: helpful in a variety of ways. On the note of 2170 01:54:58,120 --> 01:55:02,680 Speaker 1: you know, the transfer ability of skills and recognizing that 2171 01:55:02,760 --> 01:55:04,880 Speaker 1: you already do things on a day to day basis 2172 01:55:04,880 --> 01:55:08,760 Speaker 1: that requires specialized knowledge and require skill sets. UM. One 2173 01:55:08,760 --> 01:55:11,120 Speaker 1: of the things that I try and trot out at 2174 01:55:11,120 --> 01:55:13,840 Speaker 1: every possible opportunity. I worked with somebody in one of 2175 01:55:13,840 --> 01:55:18,560 Speaker 1: those volunteer bike shop spaces down New Orleans years ago, UM, 2176 01:55:18,640 --> 01:55:22,400 Speaker 1: and the whole purpose of that particular space was to 2177 01:55:22,600 --> 01:55:26,200 Speaker 1: make the skill set of bike repair more accessible to 2178 01:55:26,360 --> 01:55:30,080 Speaker 1: a population that relied on bikes to get places. And 2179 01:55:30,360 --> 01:55:33,160 Speaker 1: one of the folks I worked there with was like 2180 01:55:33,520 --> 01:55:36,960 Speaker 1: a very fami lady and was great because we would 2181 01:55:37,040 --> 01:55:39,120 Speaker 1: have young girls come into the shop and be like, 2182 01:55:39,160 --> 01:55:41,440 Speaker 1: my bike doesn't work. Somebody fixed my bike. My bike 2183 01:55:41,480 --> 01:55:43,040 Speaker 1: doesn't work. I don't know how to fix a bike, 2184 01:55:43,760 --> 01:55:45,280 Speaker 1: and she was the one who would just be like, 2185 01:55:46,560 --> 01:55:48,520 Speaker 1: your tires flat and they'd be like, yeah, I don't 2186 01:55:48,520 --> 01:55:50,160 Speaker 1: know how to fix it. Can you fix it? And 2187 01:55:50,200 --> 01:55:52,440 Speaker 1: she'd be like, well, you're wearing press on nails, right, 2188 01:55:53,200 --> 01:55:55,000 Speaker 1: and I'd be like yeah, like cool, how do you 2189 01:55:55,000 --> 01:55:56,680 Speaker 1: put on your press on nails? And they'd walked through 2190 01:55:56,680 --> 01:55:59,000 Speaker 1: the steps of like, well, you sand your nails and 2191 01:55:59,040 --> 01:56:01,080 Speaker 1: then you put the glue on your nails, and then 2192 01:56:01,160 --> 01:56:04,160 Speaker 1: you hold the press on nails on your fingernails for 2193 01:56:04,160 --> 01:56:06,240 Speaker 1: a little while and let them set, and then you're 2194 01:56:06,280 --> 01:56:08,120 Speaker 1: going to go. And she's like, great, you've just described 2195 01:56:08,160 --> 01:56:11,120 Speaker 1: exactly how you patch a bike inner tube. So now 2196 01:56:11,160 --> 01:56:12,880 Speaker 1: we just need to get the bike inner tube out, 2197 01:56:13,280 --> 01:56:15,360 Speaker 1: and here's the part that corresponds to your nail, and 2198 01:56:15,400 --> 01:56:17,760 Speaker 1: here's the part that corresponse like, here's the glue, and 2199 01:56:17,800 --> 01:56:20,280 Speaker 1: here's the you know, it's the same process. We just 2200 01:56:20,320 --> 01:56:21,800 Speaker 1: have to get the bike inner two out and then 2201 01:56:21,840 --> 01:56:23,320 Speaker 1: back in again. But you already know how to do 2202 01:56:23,360 --> 01:56:25,120 Speaker 1: the part where you make the bike could work again. 2203 01:56:25,880 --> 01:56:28,320 Speaker 1: And that does hit on another important like you know, 2204 01:56:28,400 --> 01:56:31,320 Speaker 1: apocalypse or whatever survival point where again all of our 2205 01:56:31,400 --> 01:56:34,160 Speaker 1: like fiction and movies focuses on like knowing how to 2206 01:56:34,240 --> 01:56:36,800 Speaker 1: use a gun, or like being a woodsman. One of 2207 01:56:36,880 --> 01:56:39,840 Speaker 1: the most useful skills, maybe the most useful skill you 2208 01:56:39,840 --> 01:56:42,240 Speaker 1: can have in any disaster situation, is being able to 2209 01:56:42,240 --> 01:56:45,960 Speaker 1: teach people, like like knowing how to understand figure out 2210 01:56:45,960 --> 01:56:48,200 Speaker 1: what people know, and how to get them the additional 2211 01:56:48,240 --> 01:56:52,200 Speaker 1: information they need in order to be more resilient and competent, 2212 01:56:52,280 --> 01:56:55,040 Speaker 1: because you're always better in a community of people who 2213 01:56:55,120 --> 01:56:58,800 Speaker 1: know to handle their ship than alone. And it builds 2214 01:56:58,800 --> 01:57:02,000 Speaker 1: on itself too. You know, we both come from different backgrounds, 2215 01:57:02,000 --> 01:57:04,919 Speaker 1: but as we've been together and with the different trainings 2216 01:57:04,960 --> 01:57:07,720 Speaker 1: that we've had in just life, the projects that we 2217 01:57:07,800 --> 01:57:10,960 Speaker 1: take on have become more and more complex. So you know, 2218 01:57:11,200 --> 01:57:15,720 Speaker 1: where I used to like to practice gardening and stuff 2219 01:57:15,840 --> 01:57:18,120 Speaker 1: and doing a little bit of woodworking and things, and 2220 01:57:18,160 --> 01:57:22,640 Speaker 1: now you know, we're doing various construction projects that we're 2221 01:57:22,680 --> 01:57:25,160 Speaker 1: kind of self taught, and we have some various home 2222 01:57:25,200 --> 01:57:27,920 Speaker 1: depot books on how to do them. But it's it 2223 01:57:27,960 --> 01:57:30,800 Speaker 1: doesn't feel nearly as intimidating because we've done steps to 2224 01:57:30,920 --> 01:57:33,600 Speaker 1: go to it, and because it's not an all or nothing, 2225 01:57:33,640 --> 01:57:35,200 Speaker 1: you don't have to suddenly be like I'm going to 2226 01:57:35,320 --> 01:57:38,240 Speaker 1: d I why my entire life. Like I definitely get 2227 01:57:38,280 --> 01:57:40,400 Speaker 1: that way sometimes where I'm like, I want to one 2228 01:57:40,480 --> 01:57:42,920 Speaker 1: day have everything in my house be made by someone 2229 01:57:43,320 --> 01:57:47,040 Speaker 1: that I know or myself, and it's really lovely to 2230 01:57:47,080 --> 01:57:49,680 Speaker 1: know crafts people or to you know, make do sit 2231 01:57:49,680 --> 01:57:51,320 Speaker 1: down at a pottery wheel and make your own bowls 2232 01:57:51,400 --> 01:57:54,880 Speaker 1: or whatever. But a lot of it is about practicing 2233 01:57:54,920 --> 01:57:57,840 Speaker 1: stuff when it's not an emergency so that when you 2234 01:57:57,920 --> 01:58:01,280 Speaker 1: later on have need or you have the ability, you 2235 01:58:01,320 --> 01:58:04,120 Speaker 1: have the time, like you can do a bunch of 2236 01:58:04,160 --> 01:58:09,920 Speaker 1: different things. So you know, we refloored the room that 2237 01:58:09,960 --> 01:58:14,240 Speaker 1: we're in right now the process, but we didn't get 2238 01:58:14,320 --> 01:58:16,800 Speaker 1: there from nothing. And we've both done lots of different 2239 01:58:16,840 --> 01:58:19,600 Speaker 1: construction and measuring and other things in little bits just 2240 01:58:19,760 --> 01:58:24,000 Speaker 1: for fun, for work, for other stuff beforehand. And a 2241 01:58:24,040 --> 01:58:26,400 Speaker 1: lot of these projects are things that are fun to 2242 01:58:26,480 --> 01:58:32,000 Speaker 1: do as a one off as a project. I've done, 2243 01:58:32,080 --> 01:58:35,080 Speaker 1: you know, embroidery with my kids just for fun, not 2244 01:58:35,200 --> 01:58:39,480 Speaker 1: because they need to suddenly embroider all of their clothing 2245 01:58:39,840 --> 01:58:42,680 Speaker 1: or they have to sew everything, but it's because it's 2246 01:58:42,680 --> 01:58:45,400 Speaker 1: a fun thing to do on a rainy day, or 2247 01:58:46,200 --> 01:58:50,040 Speaker 1: you know, try fixing a book, not because there's no 2248 01:58:50,120 --> 01:58:53,720 Speaker 1: ability to go on Amazon and order another book. But hey, look, 2249 01:58:53,760 --> 01:58:55,800 Speaker 1: I just we didn't add one thing to the landfill waste, 2250 01:58:55,840 --> 01:58:58,440 Speaker 1: and we don't have to fix all of the stuff 2251 01:58:58,440 --> 01:59:00,920 Speaker 1: we have. It's a one time prep but then later 2252 01:59:00,960 --> 01:59:03,760 Speaker 1: on when stuff's falling apart, or when we have supply 2253 01:59:03,840 --> 01:59:08,520 Speaker 1: chain issues, or when stuff's not there, it's handy to know, like, oh, 2254 01:59:08,600 --> 01:59:11,080 Speaker 1: you know what, Like we're having water rationing right now, 2255 01:59:11,200 --> 01:59:14,120 Speaker 1: because during the one of the droughts I grew up 2256 01:59:14,120 --> 01:59:16,440 Speaker 1: in California, we had water rationing and it was my 2257 01:59:16,480 --> 01:59:19,760 Speaker 1: mom hauled out of the basement my grandmother's old ringer 2258 01:59:19,840 --> 01:59:22,320 Speaker 1: machine and we were doing the laundry and that because 2259 01:59:22,440 --> 01:59:25,000 Speaker 1: it could conserved a hell of a lot of water 2260 01:59:25,080 --> 01:59:27,680 Speaker 1: and you could use the same water for load after load. 2261 01:59:28,400 --> 01:59:31,720 Speaker 1: It's good to just have those things just kind of 2262 01:59:31,720 --> 01:59:34,360 Speaker 1: on hand that you've tried, because when an emergency hits, 2263 01:59:34,680 --> 01:59:36,480 Speaker 1: you don't want to be trying to search the internet 2264 01:59:36,480 --> 01:59:38,800 Speaker 1: are looking for something because you've never done it before 2265 01:59:38,880 --> 01:59:42,960 Speaker 1: and now it's necessary. And it's it's again to the 2266 01:59:42,960 --> 01:59:47,000 Speaker 1: point of like how the how collapse really looks versus 2267 01:59:47,000 --> 01:59:49,760 Speaker 1: how it's often pictured. You're not trying to replicate when 2268 01:59:49,760 --> 01:59:51,760 Speaker 1: you're when you're doing your own laundry that way, you're 2269 01:59:51,760 --> 01:59:55,080 Speaker 1: not trying to replace civilization. You're patching a hole, like 2270 01:59:55,200 --> 01:59:57,640 Speaker 1: and and that's a lot of building resiliency is knowing 2271 01:59:57,640 --> 01:59:59,120 Speaker 1: that you have. It's like it's being able to fix 2272 01:59:59,160 --> 02:00:00,840 Speaker 1: a bike tire, it's pat ching a hole. And I 2273 02:00:00,920 --> 02:00:05,680 Speaker 1: do want to acknowledge that, like this is a little 2274 02:00:05,680 --> 02:00:09,800 Speaker 1: bit more outside of the dead center of mainstream in 2275 02:00:10,280 --> 02:00:13,640 Speaker 1: you know, the United States and some other like wealthy 2276 02:00:13,680 --> 02:00:18,879 Speaker 1: industrialized countries. And it's not like it has never stopped 2277 02:00:18,920 --> 02:00:21,840 Speaker 1: being the way most people in the world kind of. 2278 02:00:22,200 --> 02:00:25,320 Speaker 1: I have one story to tell from these people I 2279 02:00:25,440 --> 02:00:28,000 Speaker 1: was billeted with in Iraq. These these guys were like 2280 02:00:28,000 --> 02:00:30,960 Speaker 1: pulling people out of air strike craters every day, and 2281 02:00:31,000 --> 02:00:32,960 Speaker 1: we wanted to watch TV. One nine. We were in 2282 02:00:33,000 --> 02:00:35,600 Speaker 1: like a bombed out mosque that Isis had been using, 2283 02:00:35,720 --> 02:00:38,440 Speaker 1: and they had a refrigerator that worked in a TV 2284 02:00:38,560 --> 02:00:40,840 Speaker 1: that Isis had cut the chords with. And this guy 2285 02:00:41,040 --> 02:00:44,040 Speaker 1: just started pulling chords out of the fridge in about 2286 02:00:44,120 --> 02:00:46,760 Speaker 1: five minutes, had the TV working, had like hooked it, 2287 02:00:46,880 --> 02:00:49,000 Speaker 1: lashed everything together. It was like he wasn't a TV 2288 02:00:49,080 --> 02:00:51,880 Speaker 1: repairment or refridge. He just knew how electricity and ship 2289 02:00:51,880 --> 02:00:53,520 Speaker 1: worked and was able to figure out like, Okay, I 2290 02:00:53,520 --> 02:00:55,760 Speaker 1: can just put all this ship together, We're good to go. 2291 02:00:55,960 --> 02:00:57,960 Speaker 1: And and just also to loop back around to the 2292 02:00:58,000 --> 02:01:01,560 Speaker 1: whole like survival mentality a little bit. One of the 2293 02:01:01,680 --> 02:01:05,080 Speaker 1: things that like people that we've worked with, people who 2294 02:01:05,280 --> 02:01:11,120 Speaker 1: like have been in emergency situations that require, you know, 2295 02:01:11,280 --> 02:01:14,760 Speaker 1: complex skill sets and things of one of the big 2296 02:01:14,840 --> 02:01:18,960 Speaker 1: things is to have a role that you are competent 2297 02:01:19,120 --> 02:01:23,640 Speaker 1: in that you are ready to fulfill. So you don't 2298 02:01:23,680 --> 02:01:27,640 Speaker 1: have to figure out your first step. You can get moving. 2299 02:01:27,720 --> 02:01:30,320 Speaker 1: You can figure out your first step. So for example, 2300 02:01:30,840 --> 02:01:33,440 Speaker 1: in the you know, the supply chain issues that hit 2301 02:01:33,480 --> 02:01:38,040 Speaker 1: at the start of COVID and are recurring, um, the 2302 02:01:38,400 --> 02:01:42,680 Speaker 1: idea of like oh there's no way to like there's 2303 02:01:42,720 --> 02:01:47,280 Speaker 1: no laundry soap. Say okay, well we've got borax and 2304 02:01:47,360 --> 02:01:52,920 Speaker 1: these other making soda borax, right, we can we can 2305 02:01:52,960 --> 02:01:55,920 Speaker 1: make our own laundry detergent in a pinch and it'll 2306 02:01:55,960 --> 02:01:58,960 Speaker 1: work well enough. Cool. Don't have to have that be 2307 02:01:59,040 --> 02:02:01,600 Speaker 1: the thing that stresses us out and like adds to 2308 02:02:01,840 --> 02:02:05,280 Speaker 1: our like paralysis. Yeah, and get a huge part of 2309 02:02:05,280 --> 02:02:07,120 Speaker 1: it is even how you approach the problem it's not 2310 02:02:07,200 --> 02:02:09,720 Speaker 1: freaking out like, oh my god, there's no laundry soap, 2311 02:02:09,880 --> 02:02:11,440 Speaker 1: how am I going to clean and close? It's being like, oh, 2312 02:02:11,440 --> 02:02:15,040 Speaker 1: there's no laundry soap, I'm gonna go online because we 2313 02:02:15,080 --> 02:02:16,960 Speaker 1: still have that and try to figure out either other 2314 02:02:17,040 --> 02:02:19,320 Speaker 1: things that can make laundry soap that there are, And 2315 02:02:19,360 --> 02:02:22,960 Speaker 1: like it's it's accepting. Like you talk about like wanting 2316 02:02:23,000 --> 02:02:25,080 Speaker 1: to be competent in a role, you don't have to 2317 02:02:25,120 --> 02:02:26,920 Speaker 1: know what that is from the start, as long as 2318 02:02:26,960 --> 02:02:29,440 Speaker 1: like the starting point isn't I'm going to be the 2319 02:02:29,480 --> 02:02:31,480 Speaker 1: medic I'm going to be this, I'm gonna be the 2320 02:02:31,680 --> 02:02:34,000 Speaker 1: food or it's like no, I'm going to start learning 2321 02:02:34,000 --> 02:02:35,840 Speaker 1: how to do things I don't know how to do, 2322 02:02:36,440 --> 02:02:39,440 Speaker 1: and over a period of time, if I am dedicated 2323 02:02:39,480 --> 02:02:41,280 Speaker 1: that I will figure out the thing that I want 2324 02:02:41,280 --> 02:02:44,800 Speaker 1: to get most competent at. Yeah, because I mean, none 2325 02:02:44,840 --> 02:02:47,520 Speaker 1: of none of what we've been talking about in terms 2326 02:02:47,560 --> 02:02:51,400 Speaker 1: of the various crafts and projects that we've undertaken are 2327 02:02:51,440 --> 02:02:55,880 Speaker 1: things that are like our primary function in the world. 2328 02:02:56,160 --> 02:02:59,080 Speaker 1: It's just like, well, at some point it seemed like 2329 02:02:59,120 --> 02:03:01,520 Speaker 1: it was worth new, and so we did some of it, 2330 02:03:01,560 --> 02:03:04,320 Speaker 1: and then we kept doing it now, and there's always 2331 02:03:04,440 --> 02:03:09,320 Speaker 1: pretty good. Literally everything we've talked about. There's the you're 2332 02:03:09,360 --> 02:03:12,720 Speaker 1: a I don't know, bougie hipster version of like doing 2333 02:03:12,800 --> 02:03:15,000 Speaker 1: it expensively. Even with like woodworking, there could be a 2334 02:03:15,080 --> 02:03:17,440 Speaker 1: dirt cheap. I built a table for almost nothing when 2335 02:03:17,440 --> 02:03:19,480 Speaker 1: I was younger because it was like, well, I found 2336 02:03:19,480 --> 02:03:22,240 Speaker 1: this would that the city chopped down, and I bought 2337 02:03:22,280 --> 02:03:25,480 Speaker 1: sand paper and staying for fifteen dollars, and then I 2338 02:03:25,520 --> 02:03:28,280 Speaker 1: got like a fucking base for my Ikea and I 2339 02:03:28,320 --> 02:03:30,919 Speaker 1: had a functional table and I figured it out using YouTube. 2340 02:03:31,360 --> 02:03:33,600 Speaker 1: And it's you know, not as good a table as 2341 02:03:33,600 --> 02:03:35,800 Speaker 1: I could have made if I had ten or thousands 2342 02:03:35,840 --> 02:03:38,120 Speaker 1: of dollars in woodworking tools, but I had a table 2343 02:03:38,160 --> 02:03:41,440 Speaker 1: for years because of it um and it's it's accepting 2344 02:03:41,480 --> 02:03:44,640 Speaker 1: the because I think people do get freaked out. There's 2345 02:03:44,680 --> 02:03:47,600 Speaker 1: such an emphasis on like having the gear, getting the equipment, 2346 02:03:47,680 --> 02:03:53,920 Speaker 1: stockpiling things, and like really stockpiling competency is better because yeah, 2347 02:03:54,200 --> 02:03:56,720 Speaker 1: and I think the Amazon wish list ability to just 2348 02:03:56,760 --> 02:03:58,960 Speaker 1: be like, oh, I want this specific thing, I can 2349 02:03:59,080 --> 02:04:01,400 Speaker 1: in three seconds look it up online and find the 2350 02:04:01,400 --> 02:04:05,240 Speaker 1: exact thing that I want definitely pushes in the opposite 2351 02:04:05,280 --> 02:04:08,720 Speaker 1: direction and makes people a little less resilient in that 2352 02:04:08,760 --> 02:04:11,160 Speaker 1: capacity because there's less of that idea that you can 2353 02:04:11,160 --> 02:04:12,840 Speaker 1: just have stuff. And I would just say, if people 2354 02:04:12,880 --> 02:04:16,680 Speaker 1: want to get started with it, it's really pick something 2355 02:04:16,800 --> 02:04:23,640 Speaker 1: low stakes, pick something simple, because you build the abilities, 2356 02:04:23,960 --> 02:04:27,480 Speaker 1: you build the ability to learn. And um, I hadn't 2357 02:04:27,520 --> 02:04:30,720 Speaker 1: explained to me once. It's like a hangar. Every skill 2358 02:04:30,840 --> 02:04:33,879 Speaker 1: you get X as a hangar, and having really basic, 2359 02:04:34,040 --> 02:04:38,280 Speaker 1: simple things is actually super necessary because even even the 2360 02:04:38,400 --> 02:04:43,040 Speaker 1: like hardcore primitive skills. I have some amazing books that 2361 02:04:43,160 --> 02:04:47,440 Speaker 1: I bought when I was eighteen, and I remember I 2362 02:04:47,480 --> 02:04:49,120 Speaker 1: had them and I looked through and I read it 2363 02:04:49,160 --> 02:04:53,240 Speaker 1: and I was like, this is like reading magic. I 2364 02:04:53,360 --> 02:04:57,080 Speaker 1: understand absolutely none of it. And after a few years 2365 02:04:57,160 --> 02:05:01,360 Speaker 1: of doing things, not even necessarily a traditional skills, but 2366 02:05:01,440 --> 02:05:06,600 Speaker 1: just things, practicing stuff, picking stuff, there was so much 2367 02:05:06,680 --> 02:05:09,400 Speaker 1: more framework that I had that I looked through and 2368 02:05:09,440 --> 02:05:12,879 Speaker 1: suddenly there was stuff concepts that I could hang all 2369 02:05:12,920 --> 02:05:17,920 Speaker 1: of these incredible skills on. And we're like, oh, that 2370 02:05:18,040 --> 02:05:20,880 Speaker 1: never made sense to me. I understand it now because 2371 02:05:20,880 --> 02:05:24,160 Speaker 1: I've done simpler things and starting with thing that doesn't 2372 02:05:24,160 --> 02:05:28,320 Speaker 1: seem like overwhelming to learn something simple and something something 2373 02:05:28,360 --> 02:05:31,480 Speaker 1: most stakes something that if you utterly mess it up, 2374 02:05:31,880 --> 02:05:35,720 Speaker 1: if you have a what are the like like the 2375 02:05:35,840 --> 02:05:39,520 Speaker 1: regrets the like craft epic craft failed that it's okay, 2376 02:05:39,560 --> 02:05:42,680 Speaker 1: it's not a big deal because failing is part of learning. 2377 02:05:43,000 --> 02:05:45,520 Speaker 1: And so pick things that it's okay to fail at 2378 02:05:45,560 --> 02:05:48,520 Speaker 1: as your as your projects and and don't as many 2379 02:05:48,560 --> 02:05:51,000 Speaker 1: of us did in the late nineties and early two 2380 02:05:51,080 --> 02:05:54,280 Speaker 1: thousand's when we didn't have health insurance of any description, 2381 02:05:54,720 --> 02:05:57,680 Speaker 1: you know, experiment on ourselves and our friends with herbs 2382 02:05:57,800 --> 02:06:00,920 Speaker 1: because we didn't have healthcare access to dr avoid doing 2383 02:06:00,960 --> 02:06:05,280 Speaker 1: that is not low stakes. Yeah, I'm about to go 2384 02:06:05,360 --> 02:06:08,320 Speaker 1: do open surgery on my own infected wound now that 2385 02:06:08,360 --> 02:06:11,360 Speaker 1: you've told me this, and I'm really excited, really excited. 2386 02:06:11,760 --> 02:06:14,680 Speaker 1: I got I got an exact deal, I got some vodka. 2387 02:06:14,920 --> 02:06:18,560 Speaker 1: At least we're good to go. No, the key is 2388 02:06:18,720 --> 02:06:24,920 Speaker 1: really hot glue, same as surgical stitch. I have not 2389 02:06:26,640 --> 02:06:31,120 Speaker 1: because then it sterilizes the wound, really doesn't stick to anything. 2390 02:06:31,600 --> 02:06:33,280 Speaker 1: This is how I know you are not a crafter. 2391 02:06:33,520 --> 02:06:37,560 Speaker 1: Is hot glue does not anything. You just you squirt 2392 02:06:37,600 --> 02:06:38,960 Speaker 1: it in there, You get it in there real good, 2393 02:06:38,960 --> 02:06:41,520 Speaker 1: and then you cover it with with superglue. I do 2394 02:06:41,560 --> 02:06:43,840 Speaker 1: have a grandpa that has blue plug in the world. 2395 02:06:44,040 --> 02:06:46,560 Speaker 1: I would put superglue in first. I do have a 2396 02:06:46,560 --> 02:06:49,800 Speaker 1: grandpa that has used superglue so many times to glue 2397 02:06:49,840 --> 02:06:54,440 Speaker 1: his body back together. It is actually that's very funny. 2398 02:06:54,480 --> 02:06:58,960 Speaker 1: It's effective at that. Anyway, here's our medical advice. Yeah, 2399 02:06:59,440 --> 02:07:01,480 Speaker 1: don't do it of the things that were just said. 2400 02:07:01,720 --> 02:07:03,839 Speaker 1: But if you do want to learn how to do suitsus, 2401 02:07:03,920 --> 02:07:06,240 Speaker 1: you can find guides where people do it on Chicken, 2402 02:07:06,280 --> 02:07:07,640 Speaker 1: which is how if you're an e M T you 2403 02:07:07,720 --> 02:07:09,680 Speaker 1: learn how to do it. And it's that's a that 2404 02:07:09,800 --> 02:07:11,760 Speaker 1: is a skill you can build for very little money. 2405 02:07:11,760 --> 02:07:13,480 Speaker 1: That's useful and you don't have to start on your 2406 02:07:13,520 --> 02:07:16,960 Speaker 1: friends bodies. And I will put in a plug for like, 2407 02:07:17,280 --> 02:07:22,400 Speaker 1: wilderness first aid courses are not cheap and there are 2408 02:07:22,480 --> 02:07:25,080 Speaker 1: some real good ones out there, and as a as 2409 02:07:25,160 --> 02:07:28,640 Speaker 1: like a baseline that is a real handy and helps 2410 02:07:28,680 --> 02:07:32,000 Speaker 1: you think about things creatively because wilderness first aid unlike 2411 02:07:32,200 --> 02:07:34,560 Speaker 1: an ambulance driver. An ambulance driver is driving in a 2412 02:07:34,600 --> 02:07:37,080 Speaker 1: box with all the tools they need, and wilderness first 2413 02:07:37,080 --> 02:07:40,640 Speaker 1: aid the assumption is don't have a box. You don't 2414 02:07:40,640 --> 02:07:42,880 Speaker 1: have to and so you have to work it out 2415 02:07:43,040 --> 02:07:47,000 Speaker 1: probably you know, uh, some plantain or something or some 2416 02:07:47,160 --> 02:07:49,480 Speaker 1: the right fucking kind of sap. There's like ship you 2417 02:07:49,520 --> 02:07:53,120 Speaker 1: can use which we will not proceed to attempt to 2418 02:07:53,160 --> 02:07:57,160 Speaker 1: lift off here and provide medical advice. Don't go to 2419 02:07:57,240 --> 02:08:02,720 Speaker 1: a doctor, No use playing needles, make your own needle 2420 02:08:02,760 --> 02:08:06,800 Speaker 1: t do craft books, cure your COVID, find a bee 2421 02:08:06,880 --> 02:08:13,520 Speaker 1: hive and start sucking. And the other sources are any 2422 02:08:13,560 --> 02:08:18,320 Speaker 1: other sources have a great book called Making Stuff and 2423 02:08:18,360 --> 02:08:21,520 Speaker 1: Doing Things from way back in the day. Definitely recommend 2424 02:08:21,560 --> 02:08:24,920 Speaker 1: that one. Um country know how, like there's some a 2425 02:08:24,920 --> 02:08:29,520 Speaker 1: lot of old craft books actually, UM, the entire back 2426 02:08:29,640 --> 02:08:34,880 Speaker 1: collection of the Mother Earth magazine skills stuff like I 2427 02:08:34,960 --> 02:08:39,560 Speaker 1: have definitely made any setting magazine, not Emma Goldman's anarchists newspaper, 2428 02:08:39,640 --> 02:08:43,680 Speaker 1: but I've definitely made solar powered dehydrators out of cardboard 2429 02:08:43,720 --> 02:08:48,520 Speaker 1: boxes and saran rap from the from Mother Earth magazine stuff. 2430 02:08:48,560 --> 02:08:52,480 Speaker 1: And it's absolutely fantastic. The just old school guide books, UM, 2431 02:08:52,560 --> 02:08:54,600 Speaker 1: and but also anything that's listened as like d I 2432 02:08:54,720 --> 02:08:57,040 Speaker 1: Y guides that have stuff that you would like to 2433 02:08:57,120 --> 02:09:00,440 Speaker 1: make and like to do are great. The library is great. 2434 02:09:01,000 --> 02:09:05,080 Speaker 1: Use the library. Research librarians at the library are great 2435 02:09:05,200 --> 02:09:07,680 Speaker 1: and if you're like, I'm trying to learn how to 2436 02:09:07,760 --> 02:09:09,960 Speaker 1: do this thing? Can you help me find books on it? 2437 02:09:10,080 --> 02:09:13,520 Speaker 1: Research librarians at the library they have doctorates in how 2438 02:09:13,560 --> 02:09:15,640 Speaker 1: to help you do that, and that's they just sit 2439 02:09:15,720 --> 02:09:19,080 Speaker 1: at desks all day waiting for me. And what you'll 2440 02:09:19,120 --> 02:09:21,800 Speaker 1: learn from them about how to answer those questions for 2441 02:09:21,840 --> 02:09:25,520 Speaker 1: yourself is also useful in the long run. We'll go 2442 02:09:25,560 --> 02:09:30,120 Speaker 1: out and make a reflux. Still is that legal? Well, no, 2443 02:09:31,200 --> 02:09:33,440 Speaker 1: not in most places. But it's easy. You just need 2444 02:09:33,480 --> 02:09:35,840 Speaker 1: a box inside of a box and you pour old 2445 02:09:35,880 --> 02:09:38,400 Speaker 1: beer in the center box and that's like saran wrap 2446 02:09:38,400 --> 02:10:05,120 Speaker 1: on what's avoiding star evation? My autonomous neighborhood collectives? Uh? 2447 02:10:05,160 --> 02:10:08,680 Speaker 1: This is it could happen here a podcast about things 2448 02:10:08,720 --> 02:10:12,000 Speaker 1: not being as good as they are and trying to 2449 02:10:12,000 --> 02:10:15,440 Speaker 1: make them better. I'm Robert Evans my co host today 2450 02:10:15,960 --> 02:10:19,640 Speaker 1: as many days Garrison Davis Garrison say hello to the people, 2451 02:10:19,760 --> 02:10:22,080 Speaker 1: high people, Garrison. What are we? What are we? What 2452 02:10:22,120 --> 02:10:23,480 Speaker 1: do we? What do we? What do we? What do we? 2453 02:10:23,480 --> 02:10:24,680 Speaker 1: What do we do? What do we do? What are 2454 02:10:24,680 --> 02:10:35,440 Speaker 1: we doing today? Thank you? We are going to be 2455 02:10:35,720 --> 02:10:41,960 Speaker 1: having a discussion on um food and food preservation and 2456 02:10:42,120 --> 02:10:45,919 Speaker 1: finding do you mean like putting in the freezer. Well, 2457 02:10:45,960 --> 02:10:48,440 Speaker 1: what if the freezer is not working. The freezer is 2458 02:10:48,480 --> 02:10:52,720 Speaker 1: always working. This is America's never breaking. The power goes 2459 02:10:52,760 --> 02:10:58,480 Speaker 1: out for two weeks. Well, that's one of our guests 2460 02:10:58,480 --> 02:11:02,040 Speaker 1: for today. Uh my friends be in a Lane, um, 2461 02:11:02,080 --> 02:11:04,280 Speaker 1: who you've heard earlier this week and who We're going 2462 02:11:04,360 --> 02:11:07,600 Speaker 1: to talk about food storage and particularly again our focus 2463 02:11:07,640 --> 02:11:09,560 Speaker 1: this week is, like we keep getting a lot of 2464 02:11:09,560 --> 02:11:12,640 Speaker 1: people being like I have no money or very little 2465 02:11:12,640 --> 02:11:14,920 Speaker 1: money or very little space. I'm not gonna be able 2466 02:11:14,960 --> 02:11:18,520 Speaker 1: to grow things. How can I possibly, you know, gather food, 2467 02:11:18,720 --> 02:11:21,600 Speaker 1: store food, like build resiliency. I don't have any any 2468 02:11:21,680 --> 02:11:25,040 Speaker 1: kind of farmland. And the good news is, no matter 2469 02:11:25,040 --> 02:11:28,200 Speaker 1: where you live, things that are edible grow, and you 2470 02:11:28,240 --> 02:11:30,360 Speaker 1: can get those things and you can find ways to 2471 02:11:30,360 --> 02:11:32,080 Speaker 1: make them last longer than they would if you just 2472 02:11:32,160 --> 02:11:34,720 Speaker 1: kept them in a sack. And that's a pretty cool 2473 02:11:34,760 --> 02:11:36,160 Speaker 1: thing to do. So I'm going to hand it over 2474 02:11:36,200 --> 02:11:39,960 Speaker 1: to be in a Lane. I love that. Okay, I 2475 02:11:40,000 --> 02:11:42,560 Speaker 1: don't have much space, I don't have much money. Was 2476 02:11:42,680 --> 02:11:45,560 Speaker 1: kind of how I got into doing canning in the 2477 02:11:45,560 --> 02:11:50,920 Speaker 1: first place. For myself. I used to be very very poor. 2478 02:11:50,960 --> 02:11:53,280 Speaker 1: I was on food stamps. I had no money. I 2479 02:11:53,360 --> 02:11:56,920 Speaker 1: was a broke punk, and one of my friends was like, 2480 02:11:56,960 --> 02:12:00,120 Speaker 1: oh man, there's this farmer at the farmer's market it 2481 02:12:00,520 --> 02:12:03,160 Speaker 1: and if you help them clean up, they'll let you 2482 02:12:03,240 --> 02:12:06,800 Speaker 1: take away whatever leftover produce they have that they don't want, 2483 02:12:07,400 --> 02:12:09,520 Speaker 1: so you can just load up a bag with produce. 2484 02:12:09,560 --> 02:12:11,720 Speaker 1: All you gotta do is help them load the truck 2485 02:12:11,760 --> 02:12:15,440 Speaker 1: at the end of the day. So that's what I 2486 02:12:15,480 --> 02:12:20,920 Speaker 1: did every single Wednesday for the next five years, no 2487 02:12:20,960 --> 02:12:24,240 Speaker 1: matter what come, hell or high water. But with that 2488 02:12:24,240 --> 02:12:28,200 Speaker 1: that also came there's you started realizing that there's gluts 2489 02:12:28,200 --> 02:12:31,160 Speaker 1: and then lacks of things. Um much like you know, 2490 02:12:32,240 --> 02:12:36,120 Speaker 1: everything that's happening in society now, just in general. There 2491 02:12:36,200 --> 02:12:38,840 Speaker 1: was seasons when there was nothing but you were It 2492 02:12:38,880 --> 02:12:41,080 Speaker 1: was easy to at the end of a farmer's market 2493 02:12:41,160 --> 02:12:45,120 Speaker 1: day walk home with a fifty pound flat of tomatoes, 2494 02:12:46,480 --> 02:12:48,920 Speaker 1: and you know times of the year where it was 2495 02:12:49,000 --> 02:12:52,160 Speaker 1: nothing but cabbage and you might have wanted tomatoes a lot. 2496 02:12:52,200 --> 02:12:54,600 Speaker 1: And canning was great because it helped to equal out 2497 02:12:55,160 --> 02:12:57,720 Speaker 1: when I could get things without having to dive into 2498 02:12:57,840 --> 02:13:00,280 Speaker 1: the you know, sixty books a month, I got in 2499 02:13:00,320 --> 02:13:02,520 Speaker 1: food stamps and spend it at the farmer's market on 2500 02:13:02,600 --> 02:13:05,120 Speaker 1: that instead, I could use it to have a variety 2501 02:13:05,160 --> 02:13:08,640 Speaker 1: of vegetables or canned goods or other things in order 2502 02:13:08,680 --> 02:13:12,440 Speaker 1: to flavor my raman. Yeah. I first came at this 2503 02:13:12,560 --> 02:13:17,320 Speaker 1: kind of from working on farms, where similarly there are gluts. 2504 02:13:17,400 --> 02:13:21,040 Speaker 1: There are times of year where you literally cannot eat 2505 02:13:21,520 --> 02:13:25,240 Speaker 1: melons fast enough, and everybody who works on farms talked 2506 02:13:25,240 --> 02:13:27,720 Speaker 1: about getting the melon ships because you're eating as many 2507 02:13:27,760 --> 02:13:29,880 Speaker 1: melons as you possibly can, and it turns out that 2508 02:13:29,920 --> 02:13:34,520 Speaker 1: doesn't always agree with you. Um and uh. And then 2509 02:13:34,640 --> 02:13:38,040 Speaker 1: you know there's the time of year where well, if 2510 02:13:38,040 --> 02:13:41,880 Speaker 1: you want to eat some month old potatoes and some 2511 02:13:42,080 --> 02:13:46,240 Speaker 1: two month old squash and maybe some storage cabbage, great, 2512 02:13:46,360 --> 02:13:50,640 Speaker 1: and otherwise there's no produce to be had. So preserving 2513 02:13:50,680 --> 02:13:53,080 Speaker 1: food is well, there's a lot of different ways to 2514 02:13:53,120 --> 02:13:55,440 Speaker 1: do it, and it seems really intense a lot of 2515 02:13:55,440 --> 02:13:58,200 Speaker 1: the time because people talk about like batchuli is um, 2516 02:13:58,200 --> 02:14:00,320 Speaker 1: you're going to die of botulism if you have home 2517 02:14:00,400 --> 02:14:05,160 Speaker 1: canned food. And so first off, there's just to dispel 2518 02:14:05,480 --> 02:14:10,160 Speaker 1: a lot of myths about things, there's actually really really 2519 02:14:10,200 --> 02:14:14,320 Speaker 1: really low instances of bauchul is is um Um. I'm 2520 02:14:14,320 --> 02:14:16,839 Speaker 1: not going to say it doesn't happen, But there's actually 2521 02:14:17,240 --> 02:14:21,280 Speaker 1: very few cases of bauchuli is um per year, and 2522 02:14:21,360 --> 02:14:24,680 Speaker 1: a lot of them are from industrial canned goods. Don't 2523 02:14:24,720 --> 02:14:27,120 Speaker 1: eat a can if it's bowing out in the sides 2524 02:14:27,120 --> 02:14:31,200 Speaker 1: of the top, Throw the can, well bury the can, 2525 02:14:31,440 --> 02:14:33,920 Speaker 1: bury it in the woods far away. But then also 2526 02:14:33,960 --> 02:14:37,040 Speaker 1: beyond canning, there's a lot of different ways of food preservation. 2527 02:14:37,080 --> 02:14:39,720 Speaker 1: You know, you were joking about, like, but don't toss 2528 02:14:39,760 --> 02:14:41,760 Speaker 1: it in the freezer. I don't know. I toss a 2529 02:14:41,840 --> 02:14:45,200 Speaker 1: lot of things in the freezer. Shouldn't not a bad idea? Yeah, 2530 02:14:45,280 --> 02:14:48,760 Speaker 1: I mean, we got all sorts of animals from the 2531 02:14:48,800 --> 02:14:50,720 Speaker 1: farm in the freezer right now. We've got a lot 2532 02:14:50,720 --> 02:14:55,000 Speaker 1: of blueberries because a couple of squirrels. Yeah that was 2533 02:14:55,000 --> 02:14:58,960 Speaker 1: a random thing. Um, just just some squirrels on the 2534 02:14:59,000 --> 02:15:03,040 Speaker 1: side side squirl for squirrel for heat is, But yeah, 2535 02:15:03,200 --> 02:15:05,880 Speaker 1: they were. It's not that having a freezer is a 2536 02:15:05,960 --> 02:15:09,520 Speaker 1: bad idea. It's just that the freezer depends on you know, 2537 02:15:09,800 --> 02:15:13,800 Speaker 1: having power, or at least having a backup power source 2538 02:15:14,640 --> 02:15:20,280 Speaker 1: or a generator or or or um and in the 2539 02:15:20,400 --> 02:15:23,040 Speaker 1: case that you don't have access to those things or 2540 02:15:23,200 --> 02:15:26,160 Speaker 1: can't afford to get a whole extra freezer and that 2541 02:15:26,320 --> 02:15:30,320 Speaker 1: fills up a substantial part of or can't afford power 2542 02:15:30,360 --> 02:15:33,880 Speaker 1: the freezer. Um you know, we we definitely saw this 2543 02:15:33,920 --> 02:15:39,160 Speaker 1: past winter with the power outages that were caused by um, 2544 02:15:39,160 --> 02:15:43,640 Speaker 1: you know, in clement weather, and it suddenly became very 2545 02:15:43,720 --> 02:15:49,400 Speaker 1: hard to acquire dry ice because dry ice will keep 2546 02:15:49,440 --> 02:15:53,400 Speaker 1: stuff cold for longer. But everybody who's gone camping and 2547 02:15:53,480 --> 02:15:56,320 Speaker 1: use dry ice and they're cooler knows that. So as 2548 02:15:56,360 --> 02:15:59,440 Speaker 1: soon as there's an interruption in people's ability to refrigerate 2549 02:15:59,480 --> 02:16:03,120 Speaker 1: their food, the entire regional stock of dry ice is 2550 02:16:03,120 --> 02:16:06,400 Speaker 1: going to disappear. So what we're looking at more in 2551 02:16:06,480 --> 02:16:08,160 Speaker 1: what we're talking about today is a little bit more 2552 02:16:08,360 --> 02:16:11,840 Speaker 1: like the things that you don't need to keep anywhere, 2553 02:16:11,880 --> 02:16:16,360 Speaker 1: but like a cabinet that maybe doesn't get boiling hot, 2554 02:16:16,480 --> 02:16:19,440 Speaker 1: and if it's sort of a room temperature cabinet, you 2555 02:16:19,480 --> 02:16:23,120 Speaker 1: can store a lot of stuff. I've personally found the 2556 02:16:23,160 --> 02:16:25,960 Speaker 1: backs of closets, like, think about all of the areas 2557 02:16:25,960 --> 02:16:28,320 Speaker 1: that you don't clean that you're like, I just shove 2558 02:16:28,400 --> 02:16:30,760 Speaker 1: things back here and hope that they disappear because I 2559 02:16:30,760 --> 02:16:33,200 Speaker 1: don't actually care about them, or like the backs of 2560 02:16:33,240 --> 02:16:36,400 Speaker 1: broom closets. UM that actually for a long time was 2561 02:16:36,480 --> 02:16:38,520 Speaker 1: my place where I would store canned goods because you 2562 02:16:38,560 --> 02:16:42,000 Speaker 1: can just stack the palettes of jars, the flats of them. 2563 02:16:42,040 --> 02:16:46,080 Speaker 1: Because if you buy jars from this supermarket, UM buy 2564 02:16:46,160 --> 02:16:50,920 Speaker 1: mar canning stores anywhere Safe Way has them, Walmart has them, 2565 02:16:51,200 --> 02:16:54,400 Speaker 1: you can. They're not expensive. You can just they come 2566 02:16:54,400 --> 02:16:56,600 Speaker 1: in a little square flat and so after I would 2567 02:16:56,600 --> 02:16:58,280 Speaker 1: fill them, I just put them all back in there 2568 02:16:58,320 --> 02:17:00,840 Speaker 1: and then I could just stack those as a little 2569 02:17:00,879 --> 02:17:04,080 Speaker 1: tower and then you know, hand them out as gifts 2570 02:17:04,080 --> 02:17:06,800 Speaker 1: for the rest of the year, which was also definitely 2571 02:17:06,840 --> 02:17:09,080 Speaker 1: saying that you do when you have absolutely no money 2572 02:17:09,120 --> 02:17:10,960 Speaker 1: and people are like, oh, we're having a New Year's 2573 02:17:10,959 --> 02:17:13,040 Speaker 1: Eve party and you're like, I brought you jam, and 2574 02:17:13,040 --> 02:17:17,960 Speaker 1: they're like, oh, great, blueberry lovely. But it's nice as 2575 02:17:17,959 --> 02:17:22,280 Speaker 1: something to be you can give people beyond canning, because sometimes, 2576 02:17:22,400 --> 02:17:25,560 Speaker 1: like right now, it's incredibly hard to find the metal 2577 02:17:25,680 --> 02:17:28,960 Speaker 1: lids that go on canning jars or in some cases 2578 02:17:29,000 --> 02:17:33,360 Speaker 1: the jars. That's actually was recently looking for more jar 2579 02:17:33,520 --> 02:17:36,360 Speaker 1: lids and ended up buying flats of jars instead, because 2580 02:17:36,840 --> 02:17:40,560 Speaker 1: as four different stores told me, there's a supply chain 2581 02:17:40,640 --> 02:17:44,120 Speaker 1: disruption in getting jar lids. There's also a lot of 2582 02:17:44,120 --> 02:17:47,840 Speaker 1: ways that you can preserve stuff with drying. You can 2583 02:17:48,000 --> 02:17:51,840 Speaker 1: also do a lot with salt, vinegar and sugar preserving 2584 02:17:51,879 --> 02:17:56,080 Speaker 1: as well, so that you don't necessarily need the resealable 2585 02:17:56,200 --> 02:17:58,760 Speaker 1: jars or like new lids for that. So there's a 2586 02:17:58,800 --> 02:18:02,640 Speaker 1: bunch of different methods um lact of fermentation as well, 2587 02:18:02,760 --> 02:18:05,720 Speaker 1: like fermenting things. So what would you like to talk 2588 02:18:05,760 --> 02:18:08,360 Speaker 1: about first? Let's start with just like what is what 2589 02:18:08,480 --> 02:18:11,119 Speaker 1: is the actual process of canning beyond like just dumping 2590 02:18:11,120 --> 02:18:13,960 Speaker 1: stuff into a can and sealing it. Um. So there's 2591 02:18:14,440 --> 02:18:19,360 Speaker 1: canning by itself is ceiling jars with heat. So that was, 2592 02:18:21,680 --> 02:18:25,280 Speaker 1: oh God, really really came into its own around like 2593 02:18:25,320 --> 02:18:29,080 Speaker 1: World War two was like industrial canning. And the thing 2594 02:18:29,120 --> 02:18:34,360 Speaker 1: about it is even within canning, there's two different types. 2595 02:18:34,400 --> 02:18:37,160 Speaker 1: There's low heat and high heat canning. Low heat is 2596 02:18:37,200 --> 02:18:41,480 Speaker 1: actually just boiling water temperature, and high heat you actually 2597 02:18:41,480 --> 02:18:45,240 Speaker 1: need to go above the temperature of boiling water. So 2598 02:18:46,120 --> 02:18:49,080 Speaker 1: you can pressure can. Um, you need a pressure cooker. 2599 02:18:49,320 --> 02:18:53,240 Speaker 1: They terrify me. I don't pressure can because I haven't 2600 02:18:53,360 --> 02:18:56,960 Speaker 1: quite gotten over the images of when they explode and 2601 02:18:57,000 --> 02:18:59,440 Speaker 1: give people steam burns. I know plenty of people who 2602 02:18:59,520 --> 02:19:02,200 Speaker 1: do pressure can and it's great for them. You can 2603 02:19:02,240 --> 02:19:05,760 Speaker 1: pressure can at high heat anything. You can toss raw 2604 02:19:05,840 --> 02:19:08,160 Speaker 1: fish or raw meat in oil and jars or in 2605 02:19:08,200 --> 02:19:10,240 Speaker 1: water in jars, and you can pressure can it and 2606 02:19:10,280 --> 02:19:13,240 Speaker 1: it will cook and seal the jars and it is 2607 02:19:13,360 --> 02:19:18,040 Speaker 1: very safe. Low temperature canning is still relying on one 2608 02:19:18,040 --> 02:19:21,480 Speaker 1: of the other methods like salt, sugar, acid for the 2609 02:19:22,000 --> 02:19:25,120 Speaker 1: to keep down bacteria. So all it does, though is 2610 02:19:25,160 --> 02:19:27,080 Speaker 1: it makes the same so you can do this with 2611 02:19:27,200 --> 02:19:29,680 Speaker 1: or without canning. It just makes the jars keep a 2612 02:19:29,680 --> 02:19:33,680 Speaker 1: lot longer because it preserves them. So it's the process 2613 02:19:33,720 --> 02:19:36,360 Speaker 1: of you take a jar and then you either use 2614 02:19:36,520 --> 02:19:40,440 Speaker 1: a clean ring. If you're using those latching reusable jars 2615 02:19:40,440 --> 02:19:42,680 Speaker 1: with these nice rings on them that you can use 2616 02:19:42,720 --> 02:19:45,320 Speaker 1: over and over again, really handy when there are supply 2617 02:19:45,360 --> 02:19:47,760 Speaker 1: chain disruptions to know that you can reuse your jar 2618 02:19:47,840 --> 02:19:50,040 Speaker 1: and ring. We're talking about like the Mason jars that 2619 02:19:50,080 --> 02:19:53,440 Speaker 1: you you you would get in UH bars that are 2620 02:19:53,480 --> 02:19:55,680 Speaker 1: too expensive five years ago. They would pour your terrible 2621 02:19:55,720 --> 02:19:57,879 Speaker 1: I P A in them. Yeah, but you can use 2622 02:19:57,879 --> 02:20:00,400 Speaker 1: them for other things too. These are the well there's 2623 02:20:00,400 --> 02:20:03,840 Speaker 1: two there's the jars that have a lid that is 2624 02:20:03,840 --> 02:20:09,440 Speaker 1: attached and it lay and so those have a those 2625 02:20:09,440 --> 02:20:13,080 Speaker 1: have a rubber gas that you can and as long 2626 02:20:13,120 --> 02:20:15,200 Speaker 1: as you keep those oiled and clean, you can reuse 2627 02:20:15,240 --> 02:20:17,520 Speaker 1: those for years. They do eventually wear out, but they 2628 02:20:17,640 --> 02:20:22,120 Speaker 1: use a long time. Others is Mason or ball canning jars, 2629 02:20:22,600 --> 02:20:25,720 Speaker 1: and those actually have a two piece top. They have 2630 02:20:25,760 --> 02:20:28,120 Speaker 1: a middle ring that you just need to make sure 2631 02:20:28,160 --> 02:20:31,440 Speaker 1: it's not like horrifically dented or rusted through. It's reusable 2632 02:20:31,480 --> 02:20:33,600 Speaker 1: for a very long time. And then you have a lid, 2633 02:20:33,920 --> 02:20:36,840 Speaker 1: and the lid can only really they are recommended to 2634 02:20:36,840 --> 02:20:39,320 Speaker 1: only use once I've re used them, like twice used 2635 02:20:39,360 --> 02:20:41,840 Speaker 1: to can once you can like once it's canned and 2636 02:20:41,879 --> 02:20:43,400 Speaker 1: you you can take stuff out, put it back on. 2637 02:20:43,440 --> 02:20:45,640 Speaker 1: You don't have to like replace the lid every time 2638 02:20:45,680 --> 02:20:48,119 Speaker 1: you get some preserves out. Yeah, but the tiny piece 2639 02:20:48,160 --> 02:20:50,720 Speaker 1: of rubber that is what steals it is very thin, 2640 02:20:50,920 --> 02:20:56,000 Speaker 1: and so it's not very reusable for multiple can't batches 2641 02:20:56,040 --> 02:20:59,320 Speaker 1: of food and true to farm. You know, if you 2642 02:20:59,680 --> 02:21:07,119 Speaker 1: go looking around in you know, rummage sales, vintage stores, whatever, 2643 02:21:07,360 --> 02:21:11,320 Speaker 1: you will probably find either very cheap or very overpriced. 2644 02:21:11,400 --> 02:21:15,760 Speaker 1: Some of those old hinged jars and tons of Mason jars. 2645 02:21:15,800 --> 02:21:18,119 Speaker 1: And tons of Mason jars, you will often need to 2646 02:21:18,200 --> 02:21:22,640 Speaker 1: replace either the lids or the rubber gaskets in order 2647 02:21:22,680 --> 02:21:25,280 Speaker 1: to make them safe to star food in. But in 2648 02:21:25,320 --> 02:21:29,640 Speaker 1: either case, whether you're using the little the mason or 2649 02:21:29,680 --> 02:21:31,760 Speaker 1: ball jars that you'll find in lots of stores or 2650 02:21:31,840 --> 02:21:34,560 Speaker 1: the big latching ones, um, the jars are the more 2651 02:21:34,560 --> 02:21:38,960 Speaker 1: expensive spots things. The lids and the rubber rings are 2652 02:21:39,000 --> 02:21:42,560 Speaker 1: more inexpensive to replace. So if you can find them 2653 02:21:42,600 --> 02:21:46,040 Speaker 1: at Goodwill, if you can find them at Goodwill bins 2654 02:21:46,400 --> 02:21:50,120 Speaker 1: or all the places, it's great, you should always grab them. 2655 02:21:50,240 --> 02:21:55,640 Speaker 1: Jars are never a bad idea. So canning there's a 2656 02:21:55,680 --> 02:22:02,279 Speaker 1: million different ways to can. I do a lot of jam, jellies, pickles, 2657 02:22:02,320 --> 02:22:04,959 Speaker 1: and tomatoes, which are all things that are cammed that 2658 02:22:05,040 --> 02:22:08,760 Speaker 1: are preserved either with acid or sugar. In either case, um, 2659 02:22:08,879 --> 02:22:11,120 Speaker 1: James and jelly is being sugar and pickles and stuff 2660 02:22:11,160 --> 02:22:15,120 Speaker 1: being acid. Yes, those are my two favorites. They're very 2661 02:22:15,160 --> 02:22:18,439 Speaker 1: simple to learn, and then you can always expand recipes 2662 02:22:18,480 --> 02:22:22,240 Speaker 1: and everything else. Um. But with pickles and tomatoes and 2663 02:22:22,280 --> 02:22:26,640 Speaker 1: other things, having the PHB very acidic is what actually 2664 02:22:26,640 --> 02:22:30,000 Speaker 1: does the preservation of the food and keeps down fungus 2665 02:22:30,040 --> 02:22:33,640 Speaker 1: is molds, bacterias and stuff. And with jams and jellies, 2666 02:22:34,000 --> 02:22:38,080 Speaker 1: the natural acidity of the fruit mixed with a lot 2667 02:22:38,080 --> 02:22:42,760 Speaker 1: of sugar is what keeps the fruits from going bad 2668 02:22:42,840 --> 02:22:45,800 Speaker 1: or anything. And the great thing about canning fruit is that, 2669 02:22:45,840 --> 02:22:47,680 Speaker 1: like when you when you're thinking about what is the 2670 02:22:47,720 --> 02:22:50,879 Speaker 1: greatest number of free calories available to most people in 2671 02:22:50,920 --> 02:22:54,360 Speaker 1: a city during the seasons where fruit grows, it's often 2672 02:22:54,440 --> 02:22:56,960 Speaker 1: going to be fruit, and like you you'd be surprised. 2673 02:22:56,959 --> 02:22:58,520 Speaker 1: Like where you can do like Los Angeles where I 2674 02:22:58,560 --> 02:23:01,800 Speaker 1: used to live, there was much of the year, like 2675 02:23:01,840 --> 02:23:04,120 Speaker 1: seven eight months you could fill your arms with fruit 2676 02:23:04,160 --> 02:23:05,440 Speaker 1: if you knew where to go. And there's an app 2677 02:23:05,480 --> 02:23:08,440 Speaker 1: called Falling Fruit that you can use to find people 2678 02:23:08,480 --> 02:23:11,120 Speaker 1: mark like where different trees are a lot of Like 2679 02:23:11,160 --> 02:23:13,080 Speaker 1: you'll be surprised. Even if you think, like, well, there's 2680 02:23:13,080 --> 02:23:15,400 Speaker 1: no fruit in my area, try falling Fruit. You you 2681 02:23:15,440 --> 02:23:17,480 Speaker 1: may find that out. Actually there's a shipload of fruit. 2682 02:23:17,480 --> 02:23:20,160 Speaker 1: And I just was not looking or as you often find, 2683 02:23:20,200 --> 02:23:22,200 Speaker 1: I didn't realize that was an edible plant. I assume 2684 02:23:22,280 --> 02:23:25,879 Speaker 1: those berries were. We're not food, and they can be 2685 02:23:26,080 --> 02:23:29,360 Speaker 1: and and that's a lot of like free you know 2686 02:23:29,400 --> 02:23:32,039 Speaker 1: when you especially when you're making preserves that's really colorically dense, 2687 02:23:32,640 --> 02:23:35,200 Speaker 1: and and that also ties in with in the sort 2688 02:23:35,240 --> 02:23:40,280 Speaker 1: of survival utility aspect of this, because like canning is fun, 2689 02:23:40,360 --> 02:23:43,280 Speaker 1: and harvesting fruit it's fun, and having stuff you made 2690 02:23:44,080 --> 02:23:48,000 Speaker 1: to steel pomegranates from rich people's houses do it, sure, absolutely, 2691 02:23:48,040 --> 02:23:50,360 Speaker 1: I mean, but part of part of the other thing 2692 02:23:50,440 --> 02:23:53,360 Speaker 1: to think about here is that like providing yourself with 2693 02:23:53,400 --> 02:23:58,480 Speaker 1: a reserve of different kinds of nutrition and different like 2694 02:23:58,520 --> 02:24:02,200 Speaker 1: there's you get an assortment of stuff so you know 2695 02:24:02,320 --> 02:24:05,720 Speaker 1: you aren't having to constantly buy it because honestly, the 2696 02:24:05,760 --> 02:24:08,840 Speaker 1: most expensive in terms of carbon output, the most expensive 2697 02:24:08,840 --> 02:24:14,279 Speaker 1: in terms of cost per calorie in grocery stores tends 2698 02:24:14,320 --> 02:24:16,520 Speaker 1: to come from the stuff that's you know, been shipped 2699 02:24:16,560 --> 02:24:19,240 Speaker 1: up from Argentina because it's not in season up here. 2700 02:24:19,600 --> 02:24:22,720 Speaker 1: While you're getting grapes in January, right and blueberries, you 2701 02:24:22,760 --> 02:24:25,520 Speaker 1: can actually watch them move all the way down the 2702 02:24:25,560 --> 02:24:28,680 Speaker 1: northern hemisphere over the course of the growing season until 2703 02:24:28,720 --> 02:24:30,920 Speaker 1: they're like growing them down in Chile right before they 2704 02:24:30,920 --> 02:24:33,480 Speaker 1: start being able to grow them again. So yeah, so 2705 02:24:33,600 --> 02:24:36,920 Speaker 1: just thinking about like the things that are available when 2706 02:24:36,920 --> 02:24:39,440 Speaker 1: they are available, um. And you'll see this all the time, 2707 02:24:39,520 --> 02:24:42,640 Speaker 1: like the good florage spots. When they're available, there will 2708 02:24:42,640 --> 02:24:47,320 Speaker 1: be crowds of people all they're all collecting stuff UM 2709 02:24:47,440 --> 02:24:51,400 Speaker 1: and getting to know some of the things that you 2710 02:24:51,520 --> 02:24:55,039 Speaker 1: like and that grow near you, and what time of 2711 02:24:55,200 --> 02:24:59,599 Speaker 1: year they come into season, and maybe forming some relationships 2712 02:24:59,640 --> 02:25:02,520 Speaker 1: with people and being like, hey, I noticed you have 2713 02:25:03,200 --> 02:25:06,240 Speaker 1: a chestnut tree in your backyard. Can I come and 2714 02:25:06,440 --> 02:25:10,920 Speaker 1: harvest chestnuts? Hey, you have this kind of oak? Can 2715 02:25:11,000 --> 02:25:13,160 Speaker 1: I come and get acorns from you? Because I want 2716 02:25:13,160 --> 02:25:16,200 Speaker 1: to do a leeching project. Hey, I was grabbing apples 2717 02:25:16,200 --> 02:25:18,760 Speaker 1: and I noticed that you're harvesting all these acorns. I 2718 02:25:18,800 --> 02:25:20,720 Speaker 1: didn't know that you could do anything with acorns. What 2719 02:25:20,800 --> 02:25:23,600 Speaker 1: is what are you doing with all those acorns? And 2720 02:25:23,680 --> 02:25:26,080 Speaker 1: one of the greatest things too, is that a good 2721 02:25:26,120 --> 02:25:29,440 Speaker 1: fruit tree makes a lot of fruit. So much so 2722 02:25:29,560 --> 02:25:32,920 Speaker 1: you know, we have a little plum that's near our house. 2723 02:25:33,120 --> 02:25:36,720 Speaker 1: It's a little plum tree and since this year we 2724 02:25:36,800 --> 02:25:38,959 Speaker 1: managed to get to it before the raccoon did that 2725 02:25:39,040 --> 02:25:43,240 Speaker 1: likes to clamber over the roof. We got about two 2726 02:25:43,640 --> 02:25:46,879 Speaker 1: and fifty pounds of plums off of the small fruit 2727 02:25:46,920 --> 02:25:49,240 Speaker 1: tree and it is not very big. It has a 2728 02:25:49,240 --> 02:25:53,640 Speaker 1: footprint of maybe about ten ft in diameter of the 2729 02:25:53,680 --> 02:25:56,520 Speaker 1: widest part of the tree. But it drops quite a 2730 02:25:56,560 --> 02:25:58,080 Speaker 1: bit of fruit, especially if we get to it before 2731 02:25:58,120 --> 02:26:00,120 Speaker 1: it all drops on the ground and our cars in 2732 02:26:00,160 --> 02:26:03,280 Speaker 1: the driveway and the walkway and the cat and the cat. 2733 02:26:03,520 --> 02:26:06,959 Speaker 1: But if we get to it, it's a lot. So honestly, 2734 02:26:06,959 --> 02:26:10,480 Speaker 1: I set aside about a fifty pound tub that was like, Okay, 2735 02:26:10,480 --> 02:26:12,800 Speaker 1: we're gonna make some jam. We're gonna dry some of these, 2736 02:26:12,800 --> 02:26:14,840 Speaker 1: we're going to do things with it, and the rest 2737 02:26:14,840 --> 02:26:16,960 Speaker 1: we're able to give to friends. We toss some of 2738 02:26:17,000 --> 02:26:18,840 Speaker 1: the free fridges, we toss some all. You know, we 2739 02:26:18,959 --> 02:26:22,120 Speaker 1: handed out because one good fruit tree makes a lot. 2740 02:26:22,160 --> 02:26:24,480 Speaker 1: So when you see fruit trees around town, when you 2741 02:26:24,520 --> 02:26:29,080 Speaker 1: walk under someone's cherry tree, it's okay to ask for 2742 02:26:29,200 --> 02:26:32,160 Speaker 1: fruit too, because I don't know anyone that uses every 2743 02:26:32,200 --> 02:26:34,360 Speaker 1: single piece of fruit off of any other fruit trees. 2744 02:26:35,000 --> 02:26:37,080 Speaker 1: And you know, one of the things that you will 2745 02:26:37,120 --> 02:26:41,320 Speaker 1: see is that um a lot of cities try to 2746 02:26:41,400 --> 02:26:47,680 Speaker 1: discourage people from planting fruit trees along roads very cisely 2747 02:26:47,760 --> 02:26:50,720 Speaker 1: because when they come into fruit, they produce so much 2748 02:26:50,760 --> 02:26:53,920 Speaker 1: fruit that it causes a problem. Also, it's a good 2749 02:26:53,920 --> 02:26:57,080 Speaker 1: way to form relationships in your neighborhood. You say like, hey, 2750 02:26:57,400 --> 02:27:00,120 Speaker 1: we have a whole bunch of plums, we have a 2751 02:27:00,160 --> 02:27:03,680 Speaker 1: ton of whatever is dropping all over your front yard. 2752 02:27:04,120 --> 02:27:07,880 Speaker 1: And then your neighbors may be like, oh, those weirdos 2753 02:27:07,879 --> 02:27:11,120 Speaker 1: who were collecting fruit that one time. This tree in 2754 02:27:11,200 --> 02:27:13,560 Speaker 1: my backyard that's about to drop all this stuff. I'll 2755 02:27:13,640 --> 02:27:15,600 Speaker 1: let them know and maybe they'll come so I don't 2756 02:27:15,600 --> 02:27:18,720 Speaker 1: have to clean it up afterwards. Yeah, which is again 2757 02:27:18,760 --> 02:27:20,800 Speaker 1: like people, we talk a lot about the importance of 2758 02:27:20,800 --> 02:27:23,879 Speaker 1: building like community resiliency and community self defense, and folks 2759 02:27:23,920 --> 02:27:25,760 Speaker 1: act like, well, how do I actually do that? Well, 2760 02:27:25,800 --> 02:27:27,879 Speaker 1: that's maybe that's a start for you. Maybe the start 2761 02:27:27,920 --> 02:27:29,360 Speaker 1: is like you get to know what do they have? 2762 02:27:29,440 --> 02:27:31,560 Speaker 1: What do I have? And then you start talking about like, well, 2763 02:27:31,600 --> 02:27:33,160 Speaker 1: I'm gonta can some stuff. Do you want to learn 2764 02:27:33,160 --> 02:27:34,680 Speaker 1: how to can? You're like, oh, well, I was going 2765 02:27:34,720 --> 02:27:36,040 Speaker 1: to dry at east do you want to learn it? Like, 2766 02:27:36,120 --> 02:27:37,680 Speaker 1: or do you want to borrow a dehydrator? And then 2767 02:27:37,680 --> 02:27:41,279 Speaker 1: you're making connections that are very practical and also social 2768 02:27:41,320 --> 02:27:44,959 Speaker 1: in your area. Also one plug, we've talked a little 2769 02:27:44,959 --> 02:27:49,440 Speaker 1: bit about the process of canning dehydrators are great and 2770 02:27:49,520 --> 02:27:53,640 Speaker 1: are pretty affordable, and they're not expensive, yeah, like I 2771 02:27:53,680 --> 02:27:56,480 Speaker 1: think you know, for sixty to eighty bucks, you can 2772 02:27:56,560 --> 02:27:59,640 Speaker 1: usually get a decent dehydrator. And if you don't have one, 2773 02:27:59,680 --> 02:28:02,120 Speaker 1: but you have an oven, if you put things on 2774 02:28:02,160 --> 02:28:05,160 Speaker 1: a baking rack very low heat, you can just put it. 2775 02:28:05,240 --> 02:28:07,840 Speaker 1: I would just turn my oven onto warm, and you 2776 02:28:07,920 --> 02:28:11,320 Speaker 1: can lay out things in your oven. I have a 2777 02:28:11,400 --> 02:28:14,040 Speaker 1: nicer oven now that won't let me do this, But 2778 02:28:14,080 --> 02:28:17,040 Speaker 1: when I used to live in my first junkie apartment, 2779 02:28:17,400 --> 02:28:21,520 Speaker 1: I would literally just stick a metal spoon, like a 2780 02:28:21,560 --> 02:28:23,480 Speaker 1: one of my big cooking spoons in the door of 2781 02:28:23,560 --> 02:28:25,480 Speaker 1: the ovens so that it would open, and that would 2782 02:28:25,560 --> 02:28:27,920 Speaker 1: just vent all of the steam of whatever I was 2783 02:28:28,040 --> 02:28:31,040 Speaker 1: drying in the oven. So and meanwhile, if you live 2784 02:28:31,080 --> 02:28:34,400 Speaker 1: in say a really dry climate or a climate where 2785 02:28:34,440 --> 02:28:37,000 Speaker 1: you have a really dry stretch of time when fruit 2786 02:28:37,120 --> 02:28:41,480 Speaker 1: is in season, and you have window screens and an 2787 02:28:41,520 --> 02:28:44,400 Speaker 1: area where you can make sure there's a steady breeze 2788 02:28:44,520 --> 02:28:48,480 Speaker 1: flowing across your your fruit, cut it thin, lay it 2789 02:28:48,480 --> 02:28:50,920 Speaker 1: out in the sun. And that's why there's so much 2790 02:28:51,040 --> 02:28:53,680 Speaker 1: sun dried X, Y and Z. That's really expensive. When 2791 02:28:53,720 --> 02:28:55,840 Speaker 1: you go to dram Joe's or whatever. And it's you know, 2792 02:28:55,959 --> 02:28:57,680 Speaker 1: it's not just a matter we shouldn't just say that 2793 02:28:57,720 --> 02:28:59,720 Speaker 1: like this is you have to forage for all this stuff, 2794 02:28:59,760 --> 02:29:01,760 Speaker 1: like it can be a matter of like, well, during 2795 02:29:01,800 --> 02:29:04,720 Speaker 1: these months, beef is is much cheaper, It's half as 2796 02:29:04,760 --> 02:29:06,920 Speaker 1: much as it will be later. I'm going to buy 2797 02:29:06,920 --> 02:29:09,840 Speaker 1: beef when it's cheap, and I'm going to make jerky now, 2798 02:29:09,959 --> 02:29:12,840 Speaker 1: and then I will have protein when I can't afford 2799 02:29:12,879 --> 02:29:16,039 Speaker 1: to purchase protein or as much protein later. In the air, 2800 02:29:16,200 --> 02:29:18,800 Speaker 1: speaking of jerky, I mean like one of the just 2801 02:29:18,879 --> 02:29:21,480 Speaker 1: in the vein of you know, building your own dehydrator 2802 02:29:21,520 --> 02:29:24,480 Speaker 1: or something. One other thing that h that that I've 2803 02:29:24,520 --> 02:29:26,880 Speaker 1: done is you can just get a you know, a 2804 02:29:26,920 --> 02:29:30,120 Speaker 1: decent box fan and some furnace filters and strap them 2805 02:29:30,120 --> 02:29:33,960 Speaker 1: all together and that can very successfully dry out jerky. 2806 02:29:34,080 --> 02:29:36,959 Speaker 1: Um so D dehydrators. There's a lot of different ways 2807 02:29:37,000 --> 02:29:43,720 Speaker 1: to Yeah, it is literally just kind of warm or 2808 02:29:43,800 --> 02:29:47,320 Speaker 1: less in some cases, and air that is moving, and 2809 02:29:47,360 --> 02:29:49,800 Speaker 1: it's it's like everything we've been talking about. There's the 2810 02:29:50,120 --> 02:29:53,080 Speaker 1: you can buy very expensive dehydrators if you want to, 2811 02:29:53,120 --> 02:29:56,320 Speaker 1: if you want to get a primo jerky making together, 2812 02:29:56,400 --> 02:29:59,120 Speaker 1: you can you can make that a real expensive thing, 2813 02:29:59,240 --> 02:30:02,080 Speaker 1: or you can do it for like trash, like with 2814 02:30:02,080 --> 02:30:04,920 Speaker 1: with discarded crap that you find around in people's like 2815 02:30:05,160 --> 02:30:07,560 Speaker 1: take piles. And I think also the other thing to 2816 02:30:07,560 --> 02:30:10,360 Speaker 1: think about we're talking about it's not all foraging, is 2817 02:30:10,440 --> 02:30:13,760 Speaker 1: to think about we've been talking about supply chain disruptions, 2818 02:30:13,920 --> 02:30:17,680 Speaker 1: but also one of the things in our current circumstances 2819 02:30:17,840 --> 02:30:22,760 Speaker 1: is the weird gluts and excesses and surpluses that are 2820 02:30:22,800 --> 02:30:26,640 Speaker 1: produced by our supply chains. And again, one of the 2821 02:30:26,640 --> 02:30:30,160 Speaker 1: big ways that I learned about food preservation was food 2822 02:30:30,160 --> 02:30:34,400 Speaker 1: not bombs and food preservation and also just food preparation 2823 02:30:34,680 --> 02:30:36,760 Speaker 1: was food not bombs way back in the day, like 2824 02:30:36,800 --> 02:30:40,320 Speaker 1: you need a special sound every time on specifically it 2825 02:30:40,360 --> 02:30:43,160 Speaker 1: could happen here someone mentions food not bombs. At this point, 2826 02:30:43,360 --> 02:30:46,160 Speaker 1: that was my entry back when I was just kind 2827 02:30:46,200 --> 02:30:50,520 Speaker 1: of a liberally journalist guy to like anarchist practice. Was 2828 02:30:50,600 --> 02:30:53,760 Speaker 1: like every protest I go to, there's these like krusty 2829 02:30:53,800 --> 02:30:57,800 Speaker 1: punks handing out sandwiches, um, and then they have neat stickers. 2830 02:30:58,120 --> 02:31:00,480 Speaker 1: I wonder what's going on here and well, and one 2831 02:31:00,520 --> 02:31:02,720 Speaker 1: of the important things about food not bombs is that 2832 02:31:02,760 --> 02:31:05,680 Speaker 1: food not bombs has sort of two different ways that 2833 02:31:05,720 --> 02:31:10,039 Speaker 1: you obtain food for food not bombs. One is you 2834 02:31:10,200 --> 02:31:16,520 Speaker 1: form relationships with first farmers, Yeah, people who are going 2835 02:31:16,600 --> 02:31:18,800 Speaker 1: to have a lot of food, a lot of supply 2836 02:31:18,920 --> 02:31:21,560 Speaker 1: coming in and there's stuff they're not going to be 2837 02:31:21,680 --> 02:31:26,000 Speaker 1: able to use, either because it's ugly or you know, 2838 02:31:26,080 --> 02:31:28,560 Speaker 1: it's carrots that look like dicks and they don't feel 2839 02:31:28,600 --> 02:31:30,800 Speaker 1: comfortable putting the carrots that look like dicks on the shop. 2840 02:31:34,160 --> 02:31:37,080 Speaker 1: Or Yeah, so you have your relationships with like local 2841 02:31:37,080 --> 02:31:40,520 Speaker 1: businesses and local suppliers who aren't going to be able 2842 02:31:40,560 --> 02:31:43,720 Speaker 1: to sell or use some of their stuff. And right 2843 02:31:43,840 --> 02:31:46,480 Speaker 1: day old bread, we are a bakery and we pride 2844 02:31:46,480 --> 02:31:48,600 Speaker 1: ourselves on fresh bread, so we're going to give our 2845 02:31:48,720 --> 02:31:51,280 Speaker 1: day olds and it makes us feel good as liberals 2846 02:31:51,320 --> 02:31:53,600 Speaker 1: to give it to food not bombs. And then on 2847 02:31:53,640 --> 02:31:58,240 Speaker 1: the flip side, there's the the fact that the supply 2848 02:31:58,400 --> 02:32:01,080 Speaker 1: chain is designed to produce these excesses, but then if 2849 02:32:01,080 --> 02:32:03,200 Speaker 1: it can't make money off of them, dispose of them. 2850 02:32:03,480 --> 02:32:05,640 Speaker 1: That's where you end up with you know, cop scarting, 2851 02:32:05,879 --> 02:32:10,000 Speaker 1: copscarding dumpsters for example, don't dumpster from the cops that 2852 02:32:10,320 --> 02:32:14,240 Speaker 1: the cop guarded dumpsters. Those are the other dumpsters go 2853 02:32:14,360 --> 02:32:18,160 Speaker 1: to other dumpsters. It's infuriating, it's very frustrating. I get 2854 02:32:18,160 --> 02:32:20,280 Speaker 1: the desire to yell at the cop. But there will 2855 02:32:20,320 --> 02:32:23,200 Speaker 1: you can find dumpsters that are started. If you are 2856 02:32:23,280 --> 02:32:28,000 Speaker 1: a store or restaurant, you're legally protected to let people 2857 02:32:28,040 --> 02:32:32,600 Speaker 1: go through your dumpster. Yeah, not to you. Yeah, during 2858 02:32:32,600 --> 02:32:36,199 Speaker 1: the Clinton administration, there's legislation that was passed that straight 2859 02:32:36,280 --> 02:32:39,320 Speaker 1: up said, like at a federal level, if you present 2860 02:32:39,360 --> 02:32:44,000 Speaker 1: I think the wording is seemingly wholesome and healthful food 2861 02:32:44,640 --> 02:32:48,280 Speaker 1: two people for free, even if it has PASTI expiration date, 2862 02:32:48,640 --> 02:32:52,400 Speaker 1: that you are legally protected because it's dumb to throw 2863 02:32:52,440 --> 02:32:54,920 Speaker 1: out food just because the thing that stamped on the 2864 02:32:54,959 --> 02:32:57,960 Speaker 1: package has expired. Now that does mean if you pick 2865 02:32:58,040 --> 02:33:00,800 Speaker 1: up some meat that's expired and the I could just puffy, 2866 02:33:01,120 --> 02:33:05,120 Speaker 1: don't eat that. And also there are also local ordinances 2867 02:33:05,120 --> 02:33:07,320 Speaker 1: and local laws that do restrict that more because there 2868 02:33:07,320 --> 02:33:09,640 Speaker 1: are places where people get arrested for handing out food 2869 02:33:09,680 --> 02:33:12,120 Speaker 1: to like you know, homeless people and whatnot. But you know, 2870 02:33:12,200 --> 02:33:15,280 Speaker 1: check your local laws before doing anything is radical and 2871 02:33:15,360 --> 02:33:17,560 Speaker 1: violent as giving out as giving out free food to 2872 02:33:17,560 --> 02:33:21,360 Speaker 1: poor people. Yeah, there are these gluts um and there 2873 02:33:21,360 --> 02:33:23,400 Speaker 1: are these points where the supply chain is going to 2874 02:33:23,840 --> 02:33:27,439 Speaker 1: dump huge amounts of stuff into the system. For example, 2875 02:33:27,720 --> 02:33:30,000 Speaker 1: right now, we just talked about how canning supplies are 2876 02:33:30,120 --> 02:33:32,240 Speaker 1: kind of in short supply right now, which is weird. 2877 02:33:32,840 --> 02:33:35,400 Speaker 1: I guarantee you that that means in a couple of 2878 02:33:35,440 --> 02:33:39,240 Speaker 1: months there's going to be tons of canning supplies everywhere. 2879 02:33:39,640 --> 02:33:43,000 Speaker 1: Or you know, when there were power outages in Portland, 2880 02:33:43,520 --> 02:33:45,640 Speaker 1: then there was a bunch of stuff, even stuff that 2881 02:33:45,680 --> 02:33:48,960 Speaker 1: doesn't need to be refrigerated, was getting thrown out if 2882 02:33:49,000 --> 02:33:52,800 Speaker 1: it was stored in the refrigerated section. Yeah, because stores 2883 02:33:52,879 --> 02:33:56,520 Speaker 1: have their specific protocols about like oh well if this 2884 02:33:56,640 --> 02:33:59,640 Speaker 1: is left, if this freezer is unplugged, we have to 2885 02:33:59,680 --> 02:34:01,920 Speaker 1: throw out everything in the freezer. Never mind that a 2886 02:34:01,920 --> 02:34:04,119 Speaker 1: bunch of stuff in the freezer straight up says right 2887 02:34:04,160 --> 02:34:07,359 Speaker 1: there on it does not require refrigeration or only refrigerate 2888 02:34:07,400 --> 02:34:11,040 Speaker 1: after opening, referat after opening. So think about like where 2889 02:34:11,080 --> 02:34:15,359 Speaker 1: are your local systems going to produce these huge bloods 2890 02:34:15,680 --> 02:34:18,520 Speaker 1: or maybe it's super cheap at certain times of year, 2891 02:34:18,600 --> 02:34:22,840 Speaker 1: you know, you maybe corn goes down to like fifteen 2892 02:34:23,000 --> 02:34:26,000 Speaker 1: cents an ear or five cents an ear at the 2893 02:34:26,120 --> 02:34:28,760 Speaker 1: end of at the at the end of August, right, 2894 02:34:29,000 --> 02:34:31,400 Speaker 1: so maybe you can get a whole ton of corn 2895 02:34:31,520 --> 02:34:35,400 Speaker 1: and then you can dry it. Like you know, when 2896 02:34:35,440 --> 02:34:37,720 Speaker 1: I was a kid, we lived in California, and we 2897 02:34:37,720 --> 02:34:39,520 Speaker 1: were not doing a ton of canning. I did not 2898 02:34:39,640 --> 02:34:42,920 Speaker 1: grow up canning. I didn't grow up preserving food. I 2899 02:34:42,920 --> 02:34:46,760 Speaker 1: didn't in that type of way. But one thing that 2900 02:34:47,040 --> 02:34:49,720 Speaker 1: my mom would do is when our little mire lemon 2901 02:34:49,760 --> 02:34:53,480 Speaker 1: tree was covered in lemons, she would just juice a 2902 02:34:53,520 --> 02:34:56,360 Speaker 1: whole pile of them and then poured into ice cube 2903 02:34:56,360 --> 02:34:59,360 Speaker 1: trays and then empty the ice cube trays into gallon bags, 2904 02:34:59,400 --> 02:35:01,520 Speaker 1: and then we had, you know, we would make lemonade 2905 02:35:01,560 --> 02:35:05,520 Speaker 1: all year round. And her recipe literally called for three 2906 02:35:06,000 --> 02:35:08,560 Speaker 1: lemon cubes to how much sugar and stuff as she 2907 02:35:08,600 --> 02:35:11,000 Speaker 1: had it measured out, and so she would just pop 2908 02:35:11,000 --> 02:35:13,000 Speaker 1: those in and that would just live in the refrigerator 2909 02:35:13,040 --> 02:35:16,840 Speaker 1: all year round. Was just constant lemonade. One other plug 2910 02:35:16,920 --> 02:35:19,840 Speaker 1: in terms of preserving stuff that I want to talk 2911 02:35:20,040 --> 02:35:22,520 Speaker 1: a little bit about, but with the disclaimer that I 2912 02:35:22,520 --> 02:35:25,720 Speaker 1: am by no means an expert um. One of the 2913 02:35:25,760 --> 02:35:29,240 Speaker 1: other things that you know, the punks of Yesteryear, with 2914 02:35:29,240 --> 02:35:31,920 Speaker 1: their food not bombs houses got really excited about was 2915 02:35:31,959 --> 02:35:35,360 Speaker 1: things like crowd and kombucha um and there are some 2916 02:35:35,440 --> 02:35:39,760 Speaker 1: really great resources out there, specifically um Wild Fermentation and 2917 02:35:39,879 --> 02:35:41,920 Speaker 1: the Art of Fermentation, which are both by a guy 2918 02:35:42,000 --> 02:35:47,400 Speaker 1: named Sander Cats on how to ferment food without you 2919 02:35:47,400 --> 02:35:53,440 Speaker 1: you know, you're using naturally occurring bacteria and fermentation as 2920 02:35:53,440 --> 02:35:56,800 Speaker 1: a means of preservation is possibly the oldest means of 2921 02:35:57,720 --> 02:36:01,760 Speaker 1: deliberate food storage that human beings have, and you can 2922 02:36:01,800 --> 02:36:06,000 Speaker 1: do it with a wide variety of things. And so again, 2923 02:36:06,120 --> 02:36:08,800 Speaker 1: if you're faced with one of those gluts where you 2924 02:36:08,879 --> 02:36:11,440 Speaker 1: have a ton of stuff and nowhere you can store 2925 02:36:11,440 --> 02:36:16,280 Speaker 1: it in your refrigerated storage areas, there's probably a way 2926 02:36:16,320 --> 02:36:18,480 Speaker 1: you can jam it, you can dry it, you can 2927 02:36:18,600 --> 02:36:21,920 Speaker 1: ferment it, you can you know, make vinegar out of it. 2928 02:36:22,400 --> 02:36:24,360 Speaker 1: And you can find guides for all of this for 2929 02:36:24,440 --> 02:36:26,879 Speaker 1: free online. Like all of this is accessible if you 2930 02:36:26,879 --> 02:36:28,800 Speaker 1: have a phone. There are people in people putting up 2931 02:36:28,920 --> 02:36:31,360 Speaker 1: videos on YouTube where you can watch them do it too. 2932 02:36:31,440 --> 02:36:33,480 Speaker 1: To make it. You do not have to purchase books 2933 02:36:33,520 --> 02:36:36,720 Speaker 1: in order to learn. There's also a lot of ways, 2934 02:36:36,760 --> 02:36:39,039 Speaker 1: you know, you can make cold storages in your backyard. 2935 02:36:39,120 --> 02:36:41,960 Speaker 1: You can definitely, like I have a lot of guides 2936 02:36:42,000 --> 02:36:44,880 Speaker 1: on how to make your own roots sellers than very 2937 02:36:44,920 --> 02:36:47,760 Speaker 1: small spaces and do things because as long as you're 2938 02:36:48,040 --> 02:36:50,880 Speaker 1: not having your food produce the thing that makes it 2939 02:36:50,920 --> 02:36:53,120 Speaker 1: that makes your food go bad. There's a lot of 2940 02:36:53,120 --> 02:36:56,520 Speaker 1: different ways that you can prevent food spoilage but that 2941 02:36:56,600 --> 02:37:00,280 Speaker 1: you can learn from. But honestly, crowd and caning are 2942 02:37:00,320 --> 02:37:02,879 Speaker 1: probably some of the quickest and easiest. And as a 2943 02:37:02,920 --> 02:37:07,000 Speaker 1: general rule, um, you know, similarly, if you don't have 2944 02:37:07,040 --> 02:37:09,480 Speaker 1: access to building a garden, you probably also don't have 2945 02:37:09,520 --> 02:37:12,879 Speaker 1: access to like digging a root seller. That being said, 2946 02:37:13,600 --> 02:37:17,640 Speaker 1: if you have a room or a space in your 2947 02:37:17,720 --> 02:37:21,800 Speaker 1: house where you can reliably keep it cool and dark 2948 02:37:22,080 --> 02:37:26,840 Speaker 1: like below, I don't know, seventy degrees dark. Yeah, like closets, 2949 02:37:26,920 --> 02:37:29,320 Speaker 1: there's probably a spot in your basement if you live 2950 02:37:29,320 --> 02:37:31,000 Speaker 1: in a house where you have a basement, or if 2951 02:37:31,000 --> 02:37:32,760 Speaker 1: you live in a basement, because if you live in 2952 02:37:32,720 --> 02:37:38,160 Speaker 1: a situation, um, it's pretty easy. And for that matter, 2953 02:37:38,320 --> 02:37:41,640 Speaker 1: when we talk about like roots sellers, there are totally 2954 02:37:41,680 --> 02:37:45,600 Speaker 1: some d I y schematics for literally digging a like 2955 02:37:46,360 --> 02:37:51,360 Speaker 1: three foot cube hole in your yard and sinking in 2956 02:37:51,560 --> 02:37:54,640 Speaker 1: something to line it, and then that's where you store stuff. 2957 02:37:54,720 --> 02:37:58,080 Speaker 1: Because if you dig down a few feet below ground. 2958 02:37:58,160 --> 02:38:01,960 Speaker 1: It stays fifty degrees your round. Yeah, and I get 2959 02:38:02,040 --> 02:38:04,440 Speaker 1: like when you hear again, we keep coming back to this. Like, 2960 02:38:04,480 --> 02:38:07,920 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people get overwhelmed or get 2961 02:38:08,040 --> 02:38:11,240 Speaker 1: very anxious when they think about trying to build resiliency 2962 02:38:11,280 --> 02:38:13,080 Speaker 1: because they live in a tiny apartment, they don't have 2963 02:38:13,160 --> 02:38:15,200 Speaker 1: much in the way of money. The important one of 2964 02:38:15,200 --> 02:38:17,119 Speaker 1: the most important things to understand that like a lot 2965 02:38:17,120 --> 02:38:20,040 Speaker 1: of people, no matter how poor you are, poorer than you, 2966 02:38:20,520 --> 02:38:23,280 Speaker 1: have been doing this kind of stuff for generations. Like 2967 02:38:23,320 --> 02:38:26,720 Speaker 1: it's why most of our grandparents survived the thirties. Yeah, 2968 02:38:26,879 --> 02:38:30,039 Speaker 1: And I think one thing that people have a misinterpretation 2969 02:38:30,040 --> 02:38:31,480 Speaker 1: of with canning and stuff is that they are going 2970 02:38:31,520 --> 02:38:33,520 Speaker 1: to put stuff up and they're gonna like put up 2971 02:38:33,560 --> 02:38:37,120 Speaker 1: their cans and their jars and then they will eventually 2972 02:38:37,240 --> 02:38:41,320 Speaker 1: build this. You know, I have food for twelve years 2973 02:38:41,480 --> 02:38:45,040 Speaker 1: buried here. Nothing has that great of a shelf life. 2974 02:38:45,080 --> 02:38:49,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I've definitely pulled out some jerim that was 2975 02:38:49,040 --> 02:38:52,560 Speaker 1: from definitely didn't do that this year that I had 2976 02:38:52,600 --> 02:38:54,520 Speaker 1: forgotten in the back of a cupboard and eating it 2977 02:38:54,560 --> 02:38:57,960 Speaker 1: and it's fine. It's fine, but usually a couple three years, 2978 02:38:58,320 --> 02:39:02,119 Speaker 1: couple but The idea of canning and preserving was not 2979 02:39:02,240 --> 02:39:06,240 Speaker 1: that you are saving food in case the sky falls 2980 02:39:06,280 --> 02:39:09,960 Speaker 1: in and everyone is doomed. The reason that people preserve 2981 02:39:10,000 --> 02:39:13,320 Speaker 1: food was to extend the bounty of a harvest season 2982 02:39:13,440 --> 02:39:17,320 Speaker 1: for a few additional weeks or months. And if you 2983 02:39:17,360 --> 02:39:20,080 Speaker 1: think about it that way, you're extending what you have 2984 02:39:20,640 --> 02:39:22,680 Speaker 1: two times when it would be more enjoyable to eat 2985 02:39:22,720 --> 02:39:25,240 Speaker 1: it when it feels special. No, I mean, it's like jam. 2986 02:39:25,320 --> 02:39:27,160 Speaker 1: A big part of the reason for jam is there's 2987 02:39:27,440 --> 02:39:30,360 Speaker 1: really important nutrients in fruit that maybe you can't get 2988 02:39:30,400 --> 02:39:32,200 Speaker 1: in the dead of winter, but you can if you 2989 02:39:32,200 --> 02:39:35,080 Speaker 1: have jam. Just to be a farm nerd for a minute, 2990 02:39:35,120 --> 02:39:37,360 Speaker 1: because Robert, I know that you are a huge fan 2991 02:39:37,400 --> 02:39:41,120 Speaker 1: of pumpkin spice. Oh. The reason that I had my 2992 02:39:41,160 --> 02:39:45,160 Speaker 1: first cup of the season today, amazing monster. The reason 2993 02:39:45,320 --> 02:39:51,320 Speaker 1: that pumpkins and cinnamon and apples and baking goods, baked 2994 02:39:51,320 --> 02:39:54,320 Speaker 1: goods with reasons in them, are all like a big 2995 02:39:54,360 --> 02:39:58,200 Speaker 1: deal and are all like apples are a fruit that 2996 02:39:58,280 --> 02:40:02,200 Speaker 1: if you put apples in say a barrel, there's the 2997 02:40:02,280 --> 02:40:05,760 Speaker 1: saying about one bad apple. Because if you make sure 2998 02:40:05,800 --> 02:40:07,920 Speaker 1: that an apple isn't rotting and you put it in 2999 02:40:07,959 --> 02:40:11,920 Speaker 1: a cool, dark space with decent ventilation, apples will keep 3000 02:40:12,000 --> 02:40:15,320 Speaker 1: for a very long time. Squash are a big deal. 3001 02:40:15,360 --> 02:40:18,240 Speaker 1: Pumpkins are a big deal around this time of year 3002 02:40:18,320 --> 02:40:22,440 Speaker 1: because buttercup squash, for example, and butter not squash are 3003 02:40:22,480 --> 02:40:26,840 Speaker 1: both storage squash. They taste better if they have been 3004 02:40:26,879 --> 02:40:30,640 Speaker 1: sitting in a dark storage area for like two months. 3005 02:40:31,200 --> 02:40:33,840 Speaker 1: Then they have metabolized more of their starches into sugars, 3006 02:40:33,840 --> 02:40:37,879 Speaker 1: and their tastier. A lot of a lot of like squash, root, vegetables, 3007 02:40:37,920 --> 02:40:39,960 Speaker 1: all of that sort of stuff that you associate with, 3008 02:40:40,400 --> 02:40:45,360 Speaker 1: you know, all harvest season is specifically storage crops, because 3009 02:40:45,840 --> 02:40:50,520 Speaker 1: I'm originally from New England. That's the time of year 3010 02:40:50,600 --> 02:40:53,360 Speaker 1: where you stop being able to get food out of 3011 02:40:53,400 --> 02:40:56,640 Speaker 1: the ground and everything freezes and dies, and then it 3012 02:40:56,720 --> 02:40:59,280 Speaker 1: doesn't start up again until April, and you need a 3013 02:40:59,320 --> 02:41:02,360 Speaker 1: way to like keep eating in the meantime. And also, though, 3014 02:41:02,520 --> 02:41:07,480 Speaker 1: let's just remember that a lot of preserved foods are 3015 02:41:07,560 --> 02:41:10,720 Speaker 1: also meat, not just because they are a substitutor because 3016 02:41:10,720 --> 02:41:13,720 Speaker 1: they're staying the harvest, but because in order to preserve 3017 02:41:13,720 --> 02:41:17,200 Speaker 1: the food and keep the nutrients you have to go 3018 02:41:17,240 --> 02:41:19,240 Speaker 1: through a process. You want to have the salt be 3019 02:41:19,400 --> 02:41:21,800 Speaker 1: too high or the acidity be too high, or the 3020 02:41:21,840 --> 02:41:24,440 Speaker 1: sugar content be too high, or the water content be 3021 02:41:24,520 --> 02:41:28,400 Speaker 1: too low to enable bacterial growth, and so that the 3022 02:41:28,400 --> 02:41:31,560 Speaker 1: fruits and vegetables and meats or whatever don't rock. But 3023 02:41:31,640 --> 02:41:34,000 Speaker 1: that means that you get so many awesome and different 3024 02:41:34,040 --> 02:41:37,320 Speaker 1: flavors that you would never you know, grapes, grapes are great. 3025 02:41:37,400 --> 02:41:41,320 Speaker 1: Whatever grapes preserved in wine vinegar. That sounds really cool. 3026 02:41:41,440 --> 02:41:43,279 Speaker 1: You can do that, and then you have a completely 3027 02:41:43,280 --> 02:41:46,200 Speaker 1: different thing that you normally don't eat, you know, dried 3028 02:41:46,720 --> 02:41:49,840 Speaker 1: dried figs, apple chips, like. You also get a whole 3029 02:41:49,920 --> 02:41:54,080 Speaker 1: new variety of foods that are not just extending in harvest, 3030 02:41:54,160 --> 02:41:56,760 Speaker 1: but are also other things to eat. You know, my 3031 02:41:57,080 --> 02:41:59,560 Speaker 1: kids are not going to toss a whole pile of 3032 02:41:59,600 --> 02:42:04,040 Speaker 1: fresh in their backpacks sometimes because it squishes at the 3033 02:42:04,040 --> 02:42:06,720 Speaker 1: bottom of their backpacks and I find it weeks later, 3034 02:42:06,800 --> 02:42:10,400 Speaker 1: and it's absolutely terrifying fortunate. On the other hand, a 3035 02:42:10,400 --> 02:42:14,000 Speaker 1: bunch of you know, dried dried prunes, plums and stuff 3036 02:42:14,000 --> 02:42:16,680 Speaker 1: from the garden that dried out. They'll take baggies of those, 3037 02:42:16,720 --> 02:42:19,160 Speaker 1: and if I find them a month later because they 3038 02:42:19,160 --> 02:42:21,640 Speaker 1: didn't eat them, it isn't the end of the world 3039 02:42:21,680 --> 02:42:26,480 Speaker 1: either and and again like there's a lot of fun stuff, 3040 02:42:26,520 --> 02:42:29,920 Speaker 1: Like you know, yeah, grapes by themselves are are fine. 3041 02:42:30,480 --> 02:42:33,160 Speaker 1: You can also turn grapes into stuff that will help 3042 02:42:33,200 --> 02:42:37,840 Speaker 1: you preserve other stuff. And raisins in baked goods. If 3043 02:42:37,840 --> 02:42:40,360 Speaker 1: you've ever had a loaf of raisin bread and a 3044 02:42:40,360 --> 02:42:45,480 Speaker 1: loaf of white bread in the same bread box, the 3045 02:42:45,560 --> 02:42:49,439 Speaker 1: white bread will mold first. Raisins are actually a preservative. 3046 02:42:49,440 --> 02:42:52,400 Speaker 1: It's why people started putting raisins in bread. Yeah, and 3047 02:42:52,440 --> 02:42:55,160 Speaker 1: I think we should we should close out, but I 3048 02:42:55,280 --> 02:42:57,640 Speaker 1: kind of wanted to do that by circling back to 3049 02:42:57,680 --> 02:43:00,320 Speaker 1: the overall topic of this week, which is like building resilia. See, 3050 02:43:00,320 --> 02:43:01,840 Speaker 1: when you don't have much in the way of money 3051 02:43:01,920 --> 02:43:04,160 Speaker 1: or resources. And one of the things that you may 3052 02:43:04,160 --> 02:43:06,320 Speaker 1: not think of his building resiliency is exactly what you 3053 02:43:06,360 --> 02:43:09,359 Speaker 1: were talking about being in in you aline paying attention 3054 02:43:09,360 --> 02:43:11,840 Speaker 1: to what is available, what time of the year, what 3055 02:43:12,000 --> 02:43:13,880 Speaker 1: is cheap, what time of the year, what is like 3056 02:43:13,920 --> 02:43:16,920 Speaker 1: when do the gluts happen, and when do the shortages happen? 3057 02:43:17,280 --> 02:43:19,520 Speaker 1: Because that doesn't actually cost any money. You don't even 3058 02:43:19,560 --> 02:43:21,880 Speaker 1: have to buy things, like you're already you're all always 3059 02:43:21,959 --> 02:43:23,800 Speaker 1: going to be going out to the store to get 3060 02:43:23,800 --> 02:43:27,279 Speaker 1: food occasionally. It's it's it's keeping an eye on understanding 3061 02:43:27,280 --> 02:43:30,440 Speaker 1: what is available growing naturally and what is available in 3062 02:43:30,520 --> 02:43:33,880 Speaker 1: the economy, because that connects you more to the environment 3063 02:43:33,920 --> 02:43:37,240 Speaker 1: you live in, to the climate as it changes um 3064 02:43:37,280 --> 02:43:39,960 Speaker 1: into your community, all of which make you more resilient, 3065 02:43:40,000 --> 02:43:41,520 Speaker 1: and none of which costs you a dime. It just 3066 02:43:41,560 --> 02:43:44,640 Speaker 1: costs you attention. Also just a plug for you know, 3067 02:43:44,720 --> 02:43:49,760 Speaker 1: people who have access to the ecosystems where this is relevant. 3068 02:43:50,120 --> 02:43:53,280 Speaker 1: Things like shellfish licenses are great. I'm not going to 3069 02:43:53,360 --> 02:43:57,360 Speaker 1: tell anyone that they should, you know, seek out sport 3070 02:43:57,480 --> 02:44:01,960 Speaker 1: fishing as a means of obtaining calories. On the other hand, 3071 02:44:02,280 --> 02:44:05,119 Speaker 1: in Oregon, at least for I think it's five five bucks, 3072 02:44:05,200 --> 02:44:07,320 Speaker 1: nine bucks. Oh, it's up to ten bucks now. But 3073 02:44:07,400 --> 02:44:10,560 Speaker 1: so for ten bucks get a shellfish license. You go 3074 02:44:10,640 --> 02:44:14,080 Speaker 1: down to a cove and you rape cockles for an hour, 3075 02:44:14,240 --> 02:44:17,879 Speaker 1: and then you have, you know, an enormous amount of 3076 02:44:18,000 --> 02:44:21,240 Speaker 1: food that you can do all of the preservation that 3077 02:44:21,280 --> 02:44:23,800 Speaker 1: we've talked about. You can also just make chowder and 3078 02:44:23,840 --> 02:44:26,840 Speaker 1: freeze it, you know whatever. But there's a lot of 3079 02:44:26,840 --> 02:44:32,440 Speaker 1: ways to to cheaply obtain calories from out in the world. Yeah, 3080 02:44:32,560 --> 02:44:36,800 Speaker 1: all right, well that's going to do it for us today. Um. 3081 02:44:37,200 --> 02:44:41,320 Speaker 1: Until next time, remember experiment on your friends with different 3082 02:44:41,360 --> 02:44:44,640 Speaker 1: medical care treatments. Don't do that. Although on the other hand, 3083 02:44:44,680 --> 02:44:47,480 Speaker 1: look up the if you are in the Pacific Northwest, 3084 02:44:47,640 --> 02:44:51,120 Speaker 1: there is the Portland Fruit Tree Project up here, which 3085 02:44:51,280 --> 02:44:55,200 Speaker 1: goes around and connects gleaners with fruit trees that need 3086 02:44:55,280 --> 02:44:58,320 Speaker 1: to be gleaned. Um, so people who have over abundant 3087 02:44:58,320 --> 02:45:00,520 Speaker 1: trees that they don't want all the stuff. That's a 3088 02:45:00,560 --> 02:45:03,400 Speaker 1: really great resource in other cities, I'm sure there's other things. 3089 02:45:03,480 --> 02:45:09,080 Speaker 1: And also the Falling Fruit Map, so you can go 3090 02:45:09,160 --> 02:45:12,199 Speaker 1: online and if there's not already one in your area. 3091 02:45:12,240 --> 02:45:14,440 Speaker 1: They also make it really easy to be able to 3092 02:45:14,560 --> 02:45:17,640 Speaker 1: chart and put in trees in your area. So if 3093 02:45:17,640 --> 02:45:20,200 Speaker 1: it's saying that you're excited about and you love identifying trees, 3094 02:45:20,480 --> 02:45:22,960 Speaker 1: you can go in and actually start charting your neighborhood. 3095 02:45:23,640 --> 02:45:28,080 Speaker 1: Also figure out how to identify, you know, five wild 3096 02:45:28,160 --> 02:45:30,560 Speaker 1: plants that grow in your area that you can eat, 3097 02:45:30,920 --> 02:45:35,000 Speaker 1: because it's always nice to have more variety and it's 3098 02:45:35,040 --> 02:45:36,840 Speaker 1: fun to be out on a walk and be like, 3099 02:45:36,879 --> 02:45:39,440 Speaker 1: oh cool, now I have a thing that I can 3100 02:45:39,480 --> 02:45:41,880 Speaker 1: toss in with dinner when I get back. Yeah, And 3101 02:45:41,920 --> 02:45:43,800 Speaker 1: we've talked about how there's like the poor version of 3102 02:45:43,800 --> 02:45:47,000 Speaker 1: the cheap version. There's also like the centrist version and 3103 02:45:47,040 --> 02:45:48,920 Speaker 1: the radical version of that. The centrist version is like, 3104 02:45:48,920 --> 02:45:50,480 Speaker 1: I just want to know, like what kind of edible 3105 02:45:50,480 --> 02:45:53,320 Speaker 1: fruits grow naturally in my area. The more radical version 3106 02:45:53,400 --> 02:45:56,000 Speaker 1: is I'm going to start guerrilla grows of edible foods 3107 02:45:56,080 --> 02:45:58,720 Speaker 1: on like available in my area. I'm gonna seed ball 3108 02:45:58,840 --> 02:46:01,600 Speaker 1: some ship. I'm gonna like very to get insurgent with 3109 02:46:01,680 --> 02:46:04,879 Speaker 1: my yeah, to prepare food. Yeah. Things that grow riz 3110 02:46:04,920 --> 02:46:08,680 Speaker 1: only take root real easy in the ecosystems they like 3111 02:46:08,800 --> 02:46:11,000 Speaker 1: and are real hard to get rid of once they 3112 02:46:11,000 --> 02:46:14,440 Speaker 1: get crime gardens. I'm not going to say people should 3113 02:46:14,520 --> 02:46:17,840 Speaker 1: tear out the random trees that cities plant and then replace. 3114 02:46:18,040 --> 02:46:22,840 Speaker 1: No one can say that, But it's possible to do 3115 02:46:23,400 --> 02:46:26,600 Speaker 1: trees didn't make food with trees that did make food 3116 02:46:26,720 --> 02:46:30,040 Speaker 1: in the same spot, probably nobody would notice except the 3117 02:46:30,040 --> 02:46:32,640 Speaker 1: people who got and there would be more free calories 3118 02:46:32,680 --> 02:46:35,320 Speaker 1: in your area. If you know the kind of things 3119 02:46:35,320 --> 02:46:37,360 Speaker 1: that have been happening in the last several years continue 3120 02:46:37,400 --> 02:46:51,320 Speaker 1: to happen, all right, that's the episode. That's the episode Hey, 3121 02:46:51,400 --> 02:46:54,520 Speaker 1: We'll be back Monday, with more episodes every week from 3122 02:46:54,520 --> 02:46:57,280 Speaker 1: now until the heat death of the universe. It Could 3123 02:46:57,320 --> 02:46:59,640 Speaker 1: Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For 3124 02:46:59,760 --> 02:47:02,480 Speaker 1: more podcast from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool 3125 02:47:02,560 --> 02:47:04,560 Speaker 1: zone media dot com, or check us out on the 3126 02:47:04,560 --> 02:47:07,280 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 3127 02:47:07,320 --> 02:47:10,240 Speaker 1: to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, 3128 02:47:10,320 --> 02:47:13,760 Speaker 1: updated monthly at cool zone media dot com slash sources. 3129 02:47:13,959 --> 02:47:14,800 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.