Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the
Speaker 1: Studio on iHeart Radio. My name's Jordan runt Hog, but
Speaker 1: enough about me. My guest today is a Canadian rock god,
Speaker 1: and that's just the top of his lengthy CV, which
Speaker 1: also includes burgeoning tech titan, one time criminology student, husband
Speaker 1: and father of three. He's responsible for post grunge staples
Speaker 1: like Star Seed, Superman's Dead, One Man Army, and of
Speaker 1: course the Immortal Clumsy. Now he and his group are
Speaker 1: readying a sequel to their seminal concept album two Thousands.
Speaker 1: Spiritual Machines do out later this year. Spiritual Machines two
Speaker 1: picks up or the prior installment left off, predicting the
Speaker 1: direction of our world with a little help from the
Speaker 1: futurist author and thinker Ray Kurtzwild. The LP doesn't have
Speaker 1: a release date yet, the fans got a taste with
Speaker 1: a new lead single, Stop Making Stupid People Famous in
Speaker 1: case the title was in a tip off. It's a
Speaker 1: socially conscious song with a sense of humor about itself.
Speaker 1: The debut track also debuts a new sound for the band,
Speaker 1: an electro dance, funk fusionist assisted by Dave Siddek of
Speaker 1: TV on the Radio and a guest feature from Nadia
Speaker 1: Pussy Riot. Prior to the pandemic, my guest did some
Speaker 1: excellent lockdown training by holding up on a small remote
Speaker 1: island off the coast of Canada with his wife, the
Speaker 1: singer songwriter Chantelle cravy Azak. Together, they wrote songs for
Speaker 1: a new partnership calling the duo Moon Versus Sun. They
Speaker 1: filmed the sometimes tense sessions for the wrong and revealing
Speaker 1: documentary I'm Going to Break Your Heart, sort of like
Speaker 1: the Beatles Let It Be film, but the combination of
Speaker 1: their musical and marital partnership makes it even more intimate.
Speaker 1: I'm so happy to welcome the lead singer of our
Speaker 1: lady piece. Rain. Need to so much to ask you about,
Speaker 1: But first off, I want to start with a new album,
Speaker 1: Spiritual Machines too. It's a sequel, of course, your album
Speaker 1: Spiritual Machines from almost exactly twenty years ago. What led
Speaker 1: you to revisit it? Was it the politically charged mood
Speaker 1: of the last couple of years, or was it just
Speaker 1: the more of the shock that it was twenty years
Speaker 1: ago and was to make a good, good time to
Speaker 1: revisit those thoughts. Yeah. Well he said it was based
Speaker 1: on ray Spiritual Shemes book, which is like this incredible,
Speaker 1: you know, really highly touted futurist. He made tons of
Speaker 1: predictions in that book, and it just felt like, twenty
Speaker 1: years later, let's take a look and see what he
Speaker 1: got wrong, what he got right? And Uh, anyone that
Speaker 1: knows Ray, who I think works at Google right now,
Speaker 1: he doesn't get a lot wrong. I'll just give that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I saw on a press release he said
Speaker 1: something like eight seven percent of his predictions were we're
Speaker 1: we're correct something like that. It's true. And and the
Speaker 1: thing is he actually he didn't get he really didn't
Speaker 1: get anything wrong, the stuff that whatever. That is just
Speaker 1: more like he's such a perfectionist, right, it's all about timing.
Speaker 1: So he says that he got like autonomous cars wrong,
Speaker 1: but it was really because he's only a few years off,
Speaker 1: so he doesn't didn't really get anything wrong. What is
Speaker 1: it like working with him? I mean, how involved was
Speaker 1: he in the process of his new record? I mean
Speaker 1: he's kind of like the Muse just in terms of
Speaker 1: and I have to say, like with the with the
Speaker 1: with the new songs, stopped making stupid people famous. And
Speaker 1: even the tone of the record British Machines One was
Speaker 1: kind dark, and I think even Ray's book was talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, the diston future that that humanity might have.
Speaker 1: But I guess twenty years later, which is kind of cool,
Speaker 1: is that it's definitely more upbeat. And the record that
Speaker 1: we made we made it with Dave Siddek, whom you know,
Speaker 1: he's from TV on the radio, just an incredible producer
Speaker 1: like Matt Genius kind of musician and with his kind
Speaker 1: of influenced and what we're going for like this, this
Speaker 1: record has some has hips, like it's a little bit
Speaker 1: more dancy. It's it's kind of an anti rock record,
Speaker 1: but it has a lot of guitars just presented in
Speaker 1: a different kind of way. And the cool thing about
Speaker 1: raised new predictions. I think he gives five or six
Speaker 1: on the album. This thing is like technology is gonna
Speaker 1: actually really help it and help everything we think that's happening,
Speaker 1: even like a little war like that, there's there there's
Speaker 1: ways that technology is gonna exponentially help this with like
Speaker 1: shortages of food poverty. He sees like a you guy
Speaker 1: coming in, So I was kind of surprised, like going
Speaker 1: through all the culture and he's like, yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: this is this is not as did we make it
Speaker 1: out to be, which is great. You know, we have
Speaker 1: a future. So I was gonna say, whenever I hear
Speaker 1: maybe it just says more about me than it does
Speaker 1: about other people. But whenever I hear that there's a
Speaker 1: project set in the future, I always assume it's going
Speaker 1: to be this dystopian hell escape nightmare. And as he said,
Speaker 1: I mean, this record is not like that. It's positive,
Speaker 1: paints this really upbeat view of the future, and he
Speaker 1: touches on things like universal basic income or you know
Speaker 1: AI and like you said, combating the climate crisis, which
Speaker 1: is great, and and you mentioned also, I mean this
Speaker 1: upbeat sense really does come through, at least on the
Speaker 1: lead single it has it's almost to me it almost
Speaker 1: sounded like Scissors Sisters meets Talking Heads or something like that,
Speaker 1: or like a little bit of Gang of forurth thrown
Speaker 1: into something. But what what was it like working with
Speaker 1: with with Dave on this? But how did he how
Speaker 1: did he change the vibe of the sessions? The thing
Speaker 1: with Dave Siddik is he and he'll I think he'll
Speaker 1: admit this. He is a slave to his speaker, so
Speaker 1: he'll tell you whatever he's working on, whatever he produces,
Speaker 1: whatever he is kind of you know, whether he's programming
Speaker 1: beats or whatever he's doing. At the end of the day,
Speaker 1: he just sits in front of the speakers, like, gu
Speaker 1: I am right here. He closes his eyes and if
Speaker 1: what's coming out moves him, then it's like, let' it's
Speaker 1: go and you and he hits a green light and
Speaker 1: let's work on it. If it's not, it's a total failure,
Speaker 1: and he kind of throws things away. So I love
Speaker 1: the idea because COVID was tough because we weren't actually
Speaker 1: working together. But he would just send tracks and I
Speaker 1: would literally sit here, you know, link up, download whatever
Speaker 1: he sense me. And I gotta say, like ninety nine
Speaker 1: percent of the time I was just like it was
Speaker 1: kind of like that Max lf. My hair would fly
Speaker 1: back and I was just like, oh my god, I
Speaker 1: can't wait to sing this. And so he's just got
Speaker 1: that thing, you know, like he he just has a
Speaker 1: sense of taking whatever we gave him as a demo
Speaker 1: or just an acoustic track or a piano vocal building
Speaker 1: something where you just like, oh my god, this feels
Speaker 1: so fresh and new, although it still has like a
Speaker 1: sense of us it was perfect. We've never made this
Speaker 1: sort of reinvention on a record like we have on
Speaker 1: this one. I mean it sounds incredible. I mean fresh
Speaker 1: is the perfect word for it. Getting back to the
Speaker 1: message of the song, stop making stupid people famous. I
Speaker 1: mean that really says it all. Tell me about the
Speaker 1: genesis of that track, you know, I think everyone has
Speaker 1: that person or a collection of people that they could
Speaker 1: fit in there in terms of why am I giving
Speaker 1: bandwidth to this person? Why why are they famous? You know? Um,
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, I think the
Speaker 1: cool thing is it's more tongue in cheek. Like I
Speaker 1: think five or ten years ago me with this song
Speaker 1: it would have been a little probably too earnest and
Speaker 1: just not come off right. But with with the way
Speaker 1: the track is, like, your references are amazing. I love
Speaker 1: all those all three of those banks so Ganga, four
Speaker 1: Scissor Sisters, definitely talking heads. It's like and Burne had
Speaker 1: a great way of doing that right and his music
Speaker 1: growth like, hey, it's heavy, but let's not be so heavy.
Speaker 1: And the way to do that is, give it a
Speaker 1: great rhythm, make it slightly dancy, and it kind of
Speaker 1: takes a piss out of it a way. So I
Speaker 1: love the fact that it's saying that, but it's not.
Speaker 1: It's not supposed to be heavy. I love that there's
Speaker 1: a sense of humor in it. And I think that's
Speaker 1: some of my favorite David Byrne stuff where he's the
Speaker 1: alien anthropologist. You know, he's taking like why are we
Speaker 1: doing this? Like why are we all collective we indulging
Speaker 1: in whatever insane thing we as humans are doing at
Speaker 1: that moment, you know, I mean it, and it kind
Speaker 1: of highlights the absurdity of existence at that moment. And
Speaker 1: that's that's what I love about the message of this
Speaker 1: song for sure. And you know, my well, right before
Speaker 1: COVID saw David Byrne here in l I with that
Speaker 1: that crazy tour he just finished. It was inspiring and
Speaker 1: it definitely you have those profound moments in your life
Speaker 1: as an artist where you see someone You're like, whoa,
Speaker 1: that was just next level. So I'm not saying we're
Speaker 1: able to like grab that, but definitely that stuck with me.
Speaker 1: It was so incredible watching the band in the way
Speaker 1: to perform that it was art right, So we're hopefully
Speaker 1: you're trying to bring some of that into it. And
Speaker 1: I love that you had Nadia from from Pussy Ride
Speaker 1: in there and it really gave it such a punch.
Speaker 1: I mean, talk about somebody who became, you know, famous
Speaker 1: for the right reasons. Can you tell me more about
Speaker 1: how she got involved with you because you you go
Speaker 1: back to well south By right when you were launching
Speaker 1: the record mob ab Oh my god, you know your
Speaker 1: stuff dude. Um. Yeah, so you know, I love tech.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like a real side hows ondly forever
Speaker 1: And yeah, we had this basically a crowd source anyone
Speaker 1: that has that citizen app that scares you, you you know,
Speaker 1: a man walking down with the machete with some of
Speaker 1: the notifications you get. But we kind of built that
Speaker 1: app about five years ago. It was crowdsourcing, you know,
Speaker 1: if you're at a at a protest or saw riot
Speaker 1: happening or a crime that we kind of built this app. Anyway,
Speaker 1: we launched in the South Plain and we felt like, okay,
Speaker 1: we gotta do a launch party. And uh, in terms
Speaker 1: of who fit that was a musician that had that
Speaker 1: kind of gravitas as a as an artist and like
Speaker 1: social activist blah blah blah, not yet. So she came
Speaker 1: and she just she dj the said and hung out
Speaker 1: and was part of the launch. And then when it
Speaker 1: came for the song as well, it was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we need some equity. Be really great to have a
Speaker 1: female singing on this song. Who's that artist social justice?
Speaker 1: And there's a few, but with the relationship with Nadia
Speaker 1: and actually Dave worked with her a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: so day was like, oh, yeah, sure, let's call her
Speaker 1: and she heard the song and two days later was done. So,
Speaker 1: you know, really honored to have her on it. And
Speaker 1: she's a badass. It's such a great track. The video
Speaker 1: is so cool too, because I love that it gives
Speaker 1: a spotlight to activists that late people might not often know.
Speaker 1: I mean people like Sophia Mathr and em and Gousti
Speaker 1: and I mean so many wonderful people. Can you tell
Speaker 1: me more about how some of those uh folks wound
Speaker 1: up in the in the video? Yeah, we just you know,
Speaker 1: we just kept tried to kept like pushing forward with
Speaker 1: this isn't you know. What you hear in the title
Speaker 1: is almost like clickbait, and so the depth in the
Speaker 1: in the song comes from, you know, adding people like
Speaker 1: that show. Even the dancers in the video like incredible,
Speaker 1: you know, unheralded kind of dances around l A and
Speaker 1: then some of these Future Famous, which is a campaign
Speaker 1: we've actually started and are hoping just to you know,
Speaker 1: have this thing be an annual thing. We just met
Speaker 1: some incredible people. And I just literally talked to Alyssa
Speaker 1: Carson a couple of days ago, who was nineteen years old.
Speaker 1: She's basically had to dedicate the next eight years of
Speaker 1: her life. She'll be the one of the first um
Speaker 1: young females to go to Mars. So I nineteen, she's
Speaker 1: already said I'm doing it, and like he's literally living
Speaker 1: in Houston at NASSA for the next eight years getting
Speaker 1: And so when you hear a story it's like that,
Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, that's who deserves a platform. And then
Speaker 1: you know, you have someone like Sophia who's a you know,
Speaker 1: just a great kind of climatologists, and there's just so
Speaker 1: many great people out there that, like you said, deserve
Speaker 1: the platform gives you hope. I mean, like you said earlier, hey,
Speaker 1: we have a future right, and then you know what,
Speaker 1: It's a great point, Jordan, because I feel like all
Speaker 1: this stuff is like intersecting where it's like, yeah that
Speaker 1: there is there is so much more hope than when
Speaker 1: you turn on the TV and everything seems dealing in gloom.
Speaker 1: It's like if you just listen to Array You and
Speaker 1: you follow these young people, it's like, man, we're in
Speaker 1: good vans. Last year, obviously you weren't able to go
Speaker 1: out and do anniversary concerts for for the first Spiritual Machines,
Speaker 1: but you released a remastered recording and also acoustic live
Speaker 1: versions of some of the tracks. What was it like
Speaker 1: for you revisiting those songs? You know? I mean I
Speaker 1: always love asking musicians. You know, they always say that
Speaker 1: every character in your dream is always you, you know,
Speaker 1: Is that that way with lyrics? You you kind of
Speaker 1: revisiting those songs that do you learn something about yourself? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think because we're in the middle of making Spiritual
Speaker 1: Machines too, with with with Dave Siddik, being able to
Speaker 1: go back dissect especially when you when you break down
Speaker 1: a song that you said acoustically like you obviously the
Speaker 1: lyric becomes incredibly important. Then you know, melodic notes over chords,
Speaker 1: because you're not you don't have all this other stuff
Speaker 1: to rely on in terms of like sonically, um so
Speaker 1: you get to like the core of the song, which
Speaker 1: is usually how these songs were born. So it was
Speaker 1: I think it was a great exercise for me to
Speaker 1: understand where I was lyrically then how we are writing
Speaker 1: compared to like the difference that Spiritual Machines Too was
Speaker 1: was starting to take. And I think it was very drastic.
Speaker 1: Like I said, this is actually like a total reinvention
Speaker 1: for the band. But um, I think it was a thing.
Speaker 1: Was amazing to do that just the exercise of understanding, hey,
Speaker 1: that was then was twenty years ago. The world was
Speaker 1: a different place. We were different musicians, our sound was different,
Speaker 1: and the fact that it's evolved so much kind of
Speaker 1: made sense and it almost validated. It's like, yeah, we
Speaker 1: should be We shouldn't just be trying to copy just
Speaker 1: because it's a follow up to a concept record. We
Speaker 1: shouldn't be trying to copy any part of it. Really
Speaker 1: it should You would hope something evolves over twenty years, right,
Speaker 1: And speaking of evolution, I mean the way the delivery
Speaker 1: mechanism is evolving too. I know that you're releasing one
Speaker 1: of the singles through uh n f T through your
Speaker 1: the app Saying, which is a Seattle based tech company
Speaker 1: that that you've recently become involved with. As you mentioned earlier,
Speaker 1: you've been involved with with tech for a long time now,
Speaker 1: and it seems like a common thread in all that
Speaker 1: you do in the technological sphere is about really championing
Speaker 1: independent creators. How can n f T s benefit musicians. Well,
Speaker 1: I'll start by saying this, because I know there's been
Speaker 1: a lot of stigma around n f T s and
Speaker 1: the fact that you know, the Stevioakes and Blouse are
Speaker 1: making these big bags of money and it feels like
Speaker 1: it's for the one percent again, But I think that's
Speaker 1: like such early days of this blockchain technology, which really
Speaker 1: what it does it allows us to talk to our
Speaker 1: fans directly and build these communities without any gatekeepers, which
Speaker 1: if you just put that on paper as an artist,
Speaker 1: you're like, damn, that's what I love to do. Of course,
Speaker 1: I'd love to maybe not have to sign a record
Speaker 1: deal and maybe not have to have a publisher, where
Speaker 1: if I can get my stuff to our fans direct
Speaker 1: and there's some sort of exchange there I can actually
Speaker 1: survive as an artist. And so if you think of
Speaker 1: it like that, I would propose that if you're an artist,
Speaker 1: not embracing this and figuring out how n f t
Speaker 1: s and blockchain can help the artist community is like
Speaker 1: the biggest crime um for artists because this paradigm show
Speaker 1: back to where artists have control of their their their
Speaker 1: art again in the way they monetize it distributed and
Speaker 1: build their communities is what we've all been waiting for.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like if you know, everyone bitches about
Speaker 1: like the rates of Spotify and now you don't make
Speaker 1: money from that anymore and we don't sell c d s,
Speaker 1: it's like great, so that day's done. Man, Like this
Speaker 1: is new and technology has ability to help us against
Speaker 1: So it's if it's because you know, you feel like
Speaker 1: blockchain and bitcoin and n f t s like are
Speaker 1: harmful to the environment, then fine platforms that don't harm
Speaker 1: that are carbon neutral. Sing the one that I'm involved
Speaker 1: with is carbon neutral. There is an answer to every
Speaker 1: every excuse can an artist can make, So there's really
Speaker 1: no excuse for an artist not to embrace it. You
Speaker 1: just gotta figure how it works for you. But you've
Speaker 1: got to look at the long term n f t
Speaker 1: S and what all p will do with this record.
Speaker 1: We'll probably actually not not just one song, Jordan, We're
Speaker 1: gonna release the whole album as n f T S
Speaker 1: and you so as a fan, you're able to get
Speaker 1: that and buy it first before it gets on the
Speaker 1: Spotify as an Apple, and you'll get a ton of
Speaker 1: other like really cool stuff, like I mean, exclusive artwork
Speaker 1: for for each song. You'll you'll get like commentary on
Speaker 1: the songs. Who knows, we're still figuring out by it's
Speaker 1: gonna be way more interactive and if I was a
Speaker 1: fan of a band and they were doing this, I'd
Speaker 1: be like, depe, I can't wait to participate. Oh totally.
Speaker 1: I mean I just as a music fan, just watching
Speaker 1: the whole stream platform system evolve over the last decade.
Speaker 1: It's been scary because I talked to so many musicians
Speaker 1: because say, this isn't sustainable. You know, I'm worried about
Speaker 1: the generation musicians under me, how they're gonna actually survive
Speaker 1: and do this. And it's really frightening to think of,
Speaker 1: you know, how can people actually make a living doing
Speaker 1: this and continuing to create our involve and it makes
Speaker 1: me feel better. I mean again, it gets back to
Speaker 1: what you said earlier. We have a future thinking about
Speaker 1: these young artists in ways that they are able to
Speaker 1: monetize and survive, if you know, if touring doesn't completely
Speaker 1: cover it. Yeah, man, I mean, I know the art
Speaker 1: world was on it first, right because they just they
Speaker 1: live in that digital space and they and I know
Speaker 1: young artists that you know have like seven thousand Instagram followers,
Speaker 1: so they're not famous, Like they're not these huge people
Speaker 1: that can just demand that people come by the or
Speaker 1: are for some they're making a great living now with
Speaker 1: n f T. So it just shows you like, let
Speaker 1: them lead. But if we're not like right on their tails,
Speaker 1: where the suckers? Man? Really hopeful. I wanted to ask
Speaker 1: you prior to to work or maybe concurrently with your
Speaker 1: work on the new album. You wrapped the project with
Speaker 1: your wife, this extremely just intensely personal, really rather harrowing
Speaker 1: musical project Moon Versus Son, where the two of you
Speaker 1: went to this remote island off the coast of Canada
Speaker 1: and wrote an album while being filmed for this documentary.
Speaker 1: I'm Gonna break your heart did that experience being sort
Speaker 1: of that open and vulnerable push you into something like
Speaker 1: a spiritual machines too, Which is not to say it's
Speaker 1: not personal, but it's giving you a narrative to shield
Speaker 1: yourself a little bit, whereas with Moon versus Son you're
Speaker 1: pretty exposed and out there. Did that somehow impact this
Speaker 1: new album? I think so. I think that's a pretty
Speaker 1: cool point, to be honest. No one's brought that up before.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, making that album kind of like just letting
Speaker 1: it hanging out. I think at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: what my wife and I showed was really like process
Speaker 1: and like we're partners, we're parents. Were like, you know,
Speaker 1: obviously we're lovers and and have been together forever. So
Speaker 1: it's like all that stuff coming together and then trying
Speaker 1: to write music together. It was really intense. You can
Speaker 1: never have just shown oh wow, they're they're way off,
Speaker 1: like four thousand miles away from their home in l
Speaker 1: A on this little French island in the middle winter,
Speaker 1: and they were just able to write these great songs.
Speaker 1: There was a reason those songs happened, and a lot
Speaker 1: of it usually was like a fight that we had
Speaker 1: to come out of. But through that like stress and
Speaker 1: that torment, this song is born, and so it just
Speaker 1: would have been authentic or inauthentic to not have that stuff,
Speaker 1: and so we just showed it all. Like some of
Speaker 1: it's I know it feels a little uncomfortable probably for
Speaker 1: viewers to watch, but I don't think it's anything crazy.
Speaker 1: No one gets pushed off the island, no one breaks
Speaker 1: the door slams the window like it's it's kind of
Speaker 1: tame if you really look back on it, but showing
Speaker 1: the process is cool. And then I think with Spiritual Machines,
Speaker 1: it was just for me. It was doing things that
Speaker 1: I've never done before. And that record was Shantell and
Speaker 1: the doc I'm Gonna Break Your Heart I've never done.
Speaker 1: I've never exposed myself like you said like that before.
Speaker 1: And then in terms of when we talked about, hey
Speaker 1: we get to work with Dave Sitek on this, this
Speaker 1: is amazing, What a great opportunity. We can't just kind
Speaker 1: of like take baby steps. We gotta make We actually
Speaker 1: have to reinvent ourselves. And so because I went through
Speaker 1: that as an artist, I was just like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: we should, we should go as far as we can
Speaker 1: to where it feels uncomfortable, kind of like that film
Speaker 1: and that album feel Uncomfortable with I'm going to Break
Speaker 1: Your Heart on my wife. I just wrapped a big
Speaker 1: project on on David Bowie and there's that great quote
Speaker 1: he says, I paraphrase and something like the best art
Speaker 1: comes from when you're uncomfortable uncomfortable situations. Did you find
Speaker 1: that to be the case? I live by that quote,
Speaker 1: you know, I quoted that. Yeah, if you were look
Speaker 1: back through the interviews, especially with my wife and I
Speaker 1: have the project we have, you know, releasing, and I
Speaker 1: always quote that because I think it is like I
Speaker 1: didn't really understand it growing up, you know, in the
Speaker 1: first ten years of being an artist, but more and
Speaker 1: more calm to understand, like what is really uncomfortable and
Speaker 1: and it and it it has to be to where
Speaker 1: you almost you know, not feel embarrassed, but you uncomfortable
Speaker 1: as a weird word, because it's you have to get
Speaker 1: to that level where it's like almost terrifying and for
Speaker 1: the for the outside person, it just feels uncomfortable for
Speaker 1: an artist, almost feel terrifying. What was it like for
Speaker 1: you because you began writing together and you've been been together.
Speaker 1: I think several decades now, but you started writing together
Speaker 1: fairly recently. What is it like writing with a musical
Speaker 1: partner who's also your life partner? Mean, are you is
Speaker 1: it more of a conversation in lyrics than it would
Speaker 1: ordinarily be with with somebody else. Did you find yourself
Speaker 1: like almost having a dialogue as you were as you
Speaker 1: were writing these songs. Yeah, that's why I like that,
Speaker 1: because I think that's what we tried to do. Like
Speaker 1: She's written you know, Shute's written for I mean from
Speaker 1: like Drake to Kendrick Lamar and Gwen and all these
Speaker 1: huge artists, and we've written for artists together as well,
Speaker 1: but never something for us. So the thing was, I
Speaker 1: think we're a way and waiting waiting toward its like
Speaker 1: now are we gonna stay together? And we should do this?
Speaker 1: But like, where do we get to where Okay, we
Speaker 1: can just be really raw say ship that no one
Speaker 1: else would ever say, as even as a couple, because
Speaker 1: only because we've lived and have that luggage and and
Speaker 1: have all that stuff. So it was really about can
Speaker 1: we do all those things and and like you said,
Speaker 1: make it so it's like a conversation, and make it
Speaker 1: so it's it is like people feel like, wow, I
Speaker 1: just kind of like the documentary are we just sitting
Speaker 1: in a room with them and they're just talking through
Speaker 1: this stuff, and you know, I think we got pretty
Speaker 1: close to that. My wife's right here blugging me right now,
Speaker 1: can I help with that perk for the ladies to
Speaker 1: this is mine? This is my time? All right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean it really is that, like we have like
Speaker 1: this amazing you know, when you when you've worked with
Speaker 1: someone on so many different levels, you get a shorthand
Speaker 1: in the writing. And what I got to tell you
Speaker 1: what what I love about it is we right quickly
Speaker 1: now like songs are just kind of born and they're
Speaker 1: like what they come out of in like ten minutes
Speaker 1: is I don't know, it's pretty amazing, Like it's pretty
Speaker 1: It's incredible as an artist to feel like, wow, this
Speaker 1: is almost fully formed and now we just need to
Speaker 1: take a little bit extra time and it becomes this
Speaker 1: amazing stuff like that. We've written a bunch of times
Speaker 1: during COVID and I'm just like, holy, that is like
Speaker 1: one of my favorite songs I've ever been involved in.
Speaker 1: So this evolution of like what that documentary and that
Speaker 1: album I'm gonna break your heart for Sean telling me
Speaker 1: means it was like kind of the tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 1: But as soon as you do it, it's like, oh
Speaker 1: now this is easy. So I can't wait for the
Speaker 1: next stuff we we actually released. I was gonna ask
Speaker 1: what did it teach you about yourself, either as a
Speaker 1: musician or as a husband, after you know, two decades
Speaker 1: in of of of marriage. I think when did that
Speaker 1: that experience teach you? Most of all, Well, that Bowie
Speaker 1: quote is it it's like that that's where the best
Speaker 1: art is made. And our Lady piece has moments where
Speaker 1: I felt vulnerable and stuff. But with with I'm going
Speaker 1: to break your art with Seant tell, it's all like
Speaker 1: incredibly vulnerable. But that's why I think it's so special.
Speaker 1: So I think for everything we do now, and like
Speaker 1: you said, even with spiritual machines, I had to put
Speaker 1: myself where I was like, man, this is weird, Like
Speaker 1: this isn't what I do or I've never done this before.
Speaker 1: How do I insert myself here? And that was it you.
Speaker 1: I just have to like push through and and get
Speaker 1: over that terrifying feeling and all those butterflies, and even
Speaker 1: when you know we were talking earlier about you asked
Speaker 1: me about Dave Sick and what it was like working
Speaker 1: with them. I would get these tracks and if I
Speaker 1: were if I were not to be like courageous and say, yeah,
Speaker 1: of course I can sing in this part of me
Speaker 1: like probably would have been like, oh this is this
Speaker 1: is too progressive for our lady piece. I shouldn't do this.
Speaker 1: But it was like, forget it. This is what we're doing.
Speaker 1: I have to be a little bit scared and that's
Speaker 1: what makes it fun. Talked about how new songs are
Speaker 1: born now in a way that's been different than than
Speaker 1: it used to be for for you and Sean Tell,
Speaker 1: do you find that that that the best songs come faster,
Speaker 1: the ones that are almost sort of delivered from on high,
Speaker 1: fully formed, or or do you find it more fulfilling
Speaker 1: for the ones that you really you know, maybe six
Speaker 1: months a year, almost like a sculptor, getting every little
Speaker 1: bit right, Which is most fulfilling for you? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: probably have a d D. I love it when I
Speaker 1: feel like these things were just channeled through me and
Speaker 1: the and the first song that that started Chantalell and
Speaker 1: I Write any Other was a song called I love
Speaker 1: it when You make Me beg? And literally that was
Speaker 1: another one of those. It just it was two a m.
Speaker 1: In the morning. We're in here. I picked up a guitar,
Speaker 1: she was sitting the piano, and we wrote this course
Speaker 1: for I Love It when You Make Me Beg. And
Speaker 1: it's kind of like orchestrated bump bump, bump bump, and
Speaker 1: it was just like, how did this happen? But it
Speaker 1: took like another ten minutes to finish, and that because
Speaker 1: of that, just that dynamic and the fact that it
Speaker 1: was quick, it was like, oh, we can do this easily,
Speaker 1: you know where if I think if if it would
Speaker 1: have been a struggle and like you said, you have
Speaker 1: to sculpting and take months or or weeks, I don't
Speaker 1: know if you would actually made out. There's something about
Speaker 1: catching that moment right there that is so beautiful. Somebody
Speaker 1: who's loved music his whole life and has never been
Speaker 1: able to write a song ever, that just sounds like
Speaker 1: sourcery to me. I mean the fact that it can
Speaker 1: come that quickly and that then it can just happen.
Speaker 1: I mean, where there was once nothing, now there is
Speaker 1: something that was literal magic. You're actually pulling a rabbit
Speaker 1: out of your hat. There's no trick. Yeah, but it
Speaker 1: probably it probably took fifteen years to get there, so
Speaker 1: a lot of wood shedding. First, How has the last
Speaker 1: year and a half been for you? I know, obviously
Speaker 1: it's been. I almost feel like the going to that
Speaker 1: island must have been good training for the last year.
Speaker 1: I should say, yeah, I mean it was because you know,
Speaker 1: we I think everyone was on their own island during COVID,
Speaker 1: and so I mean, look, I'm sitting in a studio.
Speaker 1: We unfortunately, you know, we haven't had the same hardships
Speaker 1: as some families, but I do know we have had
Speaker 1: close friends that that passed away from COVID, some engineer
Speaker 1: friends of ours and people in the industry. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that that was that was just tough, you know, But
Speaker 1: ultimately we're always looking for those silver linings. And um,
Speaker 1: you know, we have three young boys. My oldest started.
Speaker 1: It's weird, like we live in l A. It's all basketball.
Speaker 1: All my kids are ballers and that's all they care
Speaker 1: about it. And one of my kid plays on this
Speaker 1: incredible travel league, like literally the number one kind of
Speaker 1: team in the nation called Comto Magic and takes up
Speaker 1: a lot of his bandwidth. When that slowed down, he
Speaker 1: was able to go bands. Within that year and a half,
Speaker 1: he turned into this like incredible artist. Like literally you
Speaker 1: talk about like the way that generation consumes like Kendrick,
Speaker 1: like a playlist still have Frank Sinatra, Bowie Kendrick my god,
Speaker 1: from like James Blake to Daniel Caesar and for him,
Speaker 1: it just all comes out, but it sounds like him,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, whoa, what is this? So he's been
Speaker 1: able to really become an artist. And I I if
Speaker 1: I were to think, wow, if we didn't have COVID
Speaker 1: and he was just doing his thing and starting high
Speaker 1: school and playing basketball, dabbling a little bit of music,
Speaker 1: who knows, but he wouldn't have been where he is
Speaker 1: right now. And right now we're sitting on a you know,
Speaker 1: an EP that to me is my God, it's mind blowing,
Speaker 1: Like I listened to it and I'm just like, you
Speaker 1: gotta be kidding me this, Who is this kid? And
Speaker 1: so you know, you just you gotta, you know, you
Speaker 1: find ways. And I think at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: what Covid probably did was me everybody, no matter what
Speaker 1: you do, happen to your creativity a little bit more
Speaker 1: and reconnect with that. Even though if you felt like
Speaker 1: you were never creative in your life, I think it
Speaker 1: just forced you to try to be creative. Whether it
Speaker 1: was like how do I make money to pay rent?
Speaker 1: Or how do I like not just binge watch Netflix
Speaker 1: first seventeen months or or whatever. It's just like you
Speaker 1: were forced to somehow be creative again, which is kind
Speaker 1: of interesting. Yeah, that is I hesitate to use the
Speaker 1: phrase silver lining, but that is a really wonderful positive
Speaker 1: to come from the last year and a half. That
Speaker 1: is amazing. It's been really humbling the last ten years
Speaker 1: or so to to meet teenagers who have better taste
Speaker 1: in music at fourteen, fifteen, sixteen that I do now
Speaker 1: at age thirty four, because they just have access to it.
Speaker 1: I grew up in a small town in in New
Speaker 1: England where you know, there's one record store and you'd
Speaker 1: be lucky if they had something, you know, slightly left
Speaker 1: the center. And how they just have to complete access
Speaker 1: to record a history of sound right there. And that's
Speaker 1: and the influences that they are able to synthesize at
Speaker 1: such a young age. It's so cool. I mean that
Speaker 1: that also gives me hope. Yeah. I was always worried
Speaker 1: with with you know, with Spotify and stuff and Apple
Speaker 1: watching kids because they don't even finish the song, like
Speaker 1: they listened to like in the first course and then
Speaker 1: it skipped through no one listened to albums. I was like, damn,
Speaker 1: how is this gonna work in terms of the new
Speaker 1: generation of artists. But I think what I saw with
Speaker 1: my kid, it's like, yeah, they they can put the
Speaker 1: best pieces of all these different artists in the playlist.
Speaker 1: So what they're getting is like literally like when you
Speaker 1: talk about like from Sinatra to Daniel Caesar to Kendrick
Speaker 1: to to Bowie to James Blake, it's like the best
Speaker 1: of the best and the best songs for them from
Speaker 1: those artists. Well, so they're starting at a level creatively
Speaker 1: where it's like he'll write a panel riff. I'm like,
Speaker 1: how did like did you steal that? Where did that
Speaker 1: come from? Do you know what I mean? I'm just
Speaker 1: like this is incredible, Like please tell me this is
Speaker 1: And he's like, if I swear dad, this mine, And
Speaker 1: so yeah, it's just it's it's pretty inspired. Like you said,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of hope for the next gen artists
Speaker 1: and those creatives, they just get it, you know, the
Speaker 1: dust to digital social media account and I think it's
Speaker 1: on Instagram and Facebook. I was lucky enough to have
Speaker 1: a jet with the guy who runs it, and he
Speaker 1: was saying, he has this theory that every thirty years
Speaker 1: there's a new genre that that supplants. The next you
Speaker 1: get jazz in the twenties and nineteen fifties, start to
Speaker 1: get rock and roll, and then around nineteen eighties start
Speaker 1: to get hip hop. And then he was saying, you know,
Speaker 1: I was thinking about what's the what's the new genre,
Speaker 1: and then it occurred to me, it's everything with a
Speaker 1: capital E. It's and that. And he says, right on
Speaker 1: the money, here's thirty years after, you know, nineteen eighty
Speaker 1: when hip hop started becoming mainstream with people like you know,
Speaker 1: Blondie or Grammars Flash or whatever. Uh, it was right there,
Speaker 1: right when Spotify came through, and it was it was
Speaker 1: an interesting, interesting way to think about it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: agree with that. Yeah, it's it's funny. I'm trying to actually,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to buy in, you know, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: make playlists now of tried and true, like I love
Speaker 1: to listen to albums all the way through and get lost.
Speaker 1: But you know, I go on these long drives and
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, okay, I'm gonna I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: pick a bunch of great artists and put it on shuffle.
Speaker 1: I'm like, damn, it's it's actually because you're you're you're
Speaker 1: getting you know, bounced around as a creative. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: I I just heard something that was you know, Nick Cave,
Speaker 1: really mellow and beautiful strings and as low, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of baritone. And then I'm listening to jor or
Speaker 1: you know, some other new artists and and it's just like,
Speaker 1: you know what, Okay, there's actually ways these things can
Speaker 1: intersect and filter together. And I don't know if I
Speaker 1: you were able to do that before as easy as
Speaker 1: you can now. It's just finding those connections. It's really fascinating.
Speaker 1: I mean, speaking of albums, is there a release date
Speaker 1: set for Spiritual Machines too? I know you're getting that
Speaker 1: question a lot. I'm sure we are, so definitely, it
Speaker 1: looks like end of October. We want to do this
Speaker 1: n f T thing in September so fans really get
Speaker 1: to feel what that's like and hopefully be a use
Speaker 1: case to be honest, I'm so deep in the n
Speaker 1: f T the world and I and you've heard me,
Speaker 1: like how passionate I am in terms of how I
Speaker 1: think this is the future for artists that I want
Speaker 1: to I want our lad Peace record to be an
Speaker 1: easy use case for other artists to be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I get it, Like that's easy. I'll release these packs
Speaker 1: with all this bonus content and at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, it makes I've never felt so creative because
Speaker 1: now I know that our album won't be just some
Speaker 1: thumbnail on on your phone, right, It's gonna they can
Speaker 1: live and breathe and bigger pieces of art and in
Speaker 1: different types of mediums and collectible stuff. So hopefully yeah,
Speaker 1: over the course of September, we can release the album
Speaker 1: as an f T S and then it comes out
Speaker 1: kind of worldwide on the DSPs in October. Well, September,
Speaker 1: we can't wait. Thank you so much for your time
Speaker 1: today and your music has been such a pleasure. I
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Georgian Man, what a great interview. You Uh,
Speaker 1: you scare me, you know so much, but I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed this episode of Inside the Studio,
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more episodes of
Speaker 1: Inside the Studio or other fantastic shows, check out the
Speaker 1: I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen
Speaker 1: to your favorite podcasts.