WEBVTT - FTX's Potential Robinhood Deal and SCOTUS 0:00:02.279 --> 0:00:05.640 From the heart of where innovation, money and power collive 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:10.920 in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 0:00:11.000 --> 0:00:26.680 Emily Chang. I'm Emily Chang in San Francisco and this 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:29.200 is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up in the next hour to 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:31.720 trading players could be looking at tie the knot. With 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:35.440 the markets in free fall, ft X is exploring an 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:39.440 acquisition of robin Hood. According to Bloomberg sources, robin Hood 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:43.760 is down some seventy five since it went public last year. 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:46.760 We'll tell you where the talk stand and we'll also 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:49.760 bring your exclusive interview with coin Flex CEO Mark Lamb 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:53.600 about why they froze all withdrawals and what they're doing 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:57.160 to fix it. Plus, tech companies may be willing to 0:00:57.200 --> 0:00:59.920 cover travel fees for employees looking to get an aboord, 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:02.800 But what about protecting your data? We'll talk to a 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:06.119 civil rights attorney about the power tech company's have over 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:10.199 your digital rights. In a post row era and Para 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.280 Nos's Sunny Baldwani his fate in the hands of a 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:16.679 jury at the same courthouse where his ex girlfriend, Elizabeth 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:19.920 Bones was found guilty of defrauding Investors will get the 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:23.800 latest on where the trial stands. More on that bloomberg 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:26.400 scoop news of f t X and Sam Bankman Freed's 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:30.640 interest in acquiring robin Hood. We learned just last month 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:33.800 that Bankman Freed owns a seven point six percent stake 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:37.480 in robin Hood through another holding company. As this news 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:42.600 was breaking, he tweeted backstopping customer assets should always be primary, 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:46.440 everything else is secondary. For more, I'm joined by Bloombergs. 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:49.000 Annie Massa, who covers robin Hood has been working this 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:51.400 story for us. What's the latest, Annie? What do we know? 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:54.360 What's the status of this? So the service is that 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:59.080 f t X has talked internally about potentially reaching out 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:02.120 seeing if they could buy I robin Hood, and we've 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.600 seen robin Hood has been pretty distressed in the months 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:09.560 since its I p O last year, and it's led 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:12.399 a lot of people to wonder if robin Hood might 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:16.000 pursue a deal. Now, they haven't advanced as far as 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:19.440 uh as having formal M and A talks, but this 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.800 is something FTX is exploring, especially after that stake that 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:27.840 Sam Bankmn Freed took. As you mentioned, so fd X 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:30.720 saying in a statement, we're excited about robin Hood's business 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:34.000 prospects and potential ways we could partner with them. That 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:38.080 being said, no active M and A conversations with robin Hood. 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:40.240 Do we know how robin Hood and its co founders 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:44.480 feel about this? They're the company declines to come in 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:47.080 for our story. It's true that this is in the 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:51.440 earlier stages right now, but and it's complicated by the 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:54.240 fact that robin Hood's co founders lad tin Of and 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:59.519 Beij Jubat have super majority voting uh they control over 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:03.440 fifty percent of voting power at robin Hood, so that 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:07.359 would complicate any deal. However, you're still in a position 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:10.320 where there there have been a lot of questions about 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:12.960 what robin Hood might do, whether it might come under 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:15.680 enough pressure to look at a deal, and if FTX 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.440 were to come forward with something, um they might have 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:20.840 to take a look. Why would it feel like this 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:24.080 makes sense? Obviously, we know robin hood stock has plummeted, 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:27.600 They've had to do some layoffs. There are still an 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:30.760 incredibly popular trading app. When you ask, you know, a 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:35.400 typical retail investor, UM that said, you know that they've 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:38.160 been working trying to push harder into the crypto market. 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:40.640 That's f T x is bread and butter. You know, 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:43.440 talk to us about you know, the reasoning behind a 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:45.760 tie up other than the fact that sam Bank been 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:49.920 freed is interested. That's right. So first year have sam 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:52.240 Bank been freed with his stake that he already has 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:54.760 your holding company in robin Hood. But there are other 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:59.200 overlaps between the companies too. Robin Hood really benefited from 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:01.760 the huge boom and retail trading that we saw during 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:05.560 the pandemic. You can trade equities options crypto all on 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:08.640 robin Hood and f t X is a crypto exchange, 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:11.800 but it's also shown interest in getting into the equities 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.280 world as well. So there is a fair amount of 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:17.960 overlap between the very retail heavy world of crypto f 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:21.920 t X really embodies and the crypto stock trading options 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:26.760 trading for younger investors, newer investors that robin Hood represents. 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:28.919 So you can see a tie up of the two 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:32.800 making sense, all right, bloom Brigs. Animasa will continue to 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:44.279 stay tuned to your reporting. Thank you. Some of the 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:46.920 biggest companies in the world, many of them in tech, 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:49.800 have quickly put into action plans to help employees who 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:53.240 may need access to abortion care following the Supreme Courts 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:58.760 ruling overturning Rowe versus Wade. Companies like Apple, Uber, Lift, Meta, Amazon, 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:01.719 and dozens more have an ou still cover travel expenses 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:05.440 for employees and states where the medical procedure is or 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:08.760 will be banned for more. Now, I'm joined by Bloomberg 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:11.760 Sarah Fryer. So Sarah explained to us what's happening in 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:16.080 the fine print here and what these companies are saying. Well, 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:17.880 a lot of the companies are saying that they will 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:22.040 include abortion among the health care procedures, that they will 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:26.520 will reimburse travel for UM. So often that is, you know, 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:31.160 if it's if it's something that you that you need, UM, 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:33.200 they will find a way to fly you to a 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:36.720 state where that's possible. The problem is, UM, they're not 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:39.600 saying anything about another big question that we have here 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:44.080 at Bloomberg, which is not just about employees, but about 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:46.800 their investments in these states, but about the data that 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:49.320 they collect UM. There's a lot of concern right now 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:53.880 that that companies will collect data just through their uses, 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:58.320 through their searches, through their messaging, through UM, their interactions 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:03.440 online about whether they're playing abortions, and that prosecutors in 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:06.480 these states where abortion is illegal might try to subpoena 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:09.159 the companies to get it. And so far, we haven't 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:11.800 seen a lot of companies stand up and say they 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:15.640 won't provide that data or that they'll protect user privacy. 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:21.040 And it's a tricky situation for them because UM historically 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:25.320 their rule has been whenever there is UM something illegal 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:29.000 or something requested by law enforcement, they could apply UM. 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:30.960 But in this case, where they have a subject that 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:33.919 a lot of employees feel very passionately about, most of 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:36.560 the us UM is on the side that, you know, 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:39.000 people should be able to have this health care procedure. 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:42.320 I don't know how they're going to react when when 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:45.400 prosecutors started asking for that data, and Sarah, I know 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:47.840 that you and your team are trying to get some 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.039 answers from these companies about how they're going to handle 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:55.200 these bigger questions. What are we hearing so far? Well, 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:57.600 I think I think that what we might see is 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:00.120 some companies standing up and saying, no, we're not going 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.680 to do that. UM this data, this user data, will 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:06.880 fight in court over not providing it to the government 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.920 and potentially endangering someone, whereas other companies will say, listen, 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:14.000 this is the law, and we operate by the law 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:17.800 of the land wherever we wherever we are, UM, you know, 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:21.400 putting our product, we have to do that, and so 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:24.920 they'll just they'll just comply, and UM it could set 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:27.160 up a lot of problems for a lot of people 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:30.040 who use these services. UM. It's it's very different than 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:35.080 fifty years ago, UM pre row. Whereas now we have 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:40.040 this entire economy around knowing exactly what people intend to 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:43.320 do based on their online behavior. And I think that 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:45.600 the next few years we're going to see a lot 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:51.680 of pain and question around what responsibility companies have to 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:55.400 their users versus what responsibility ability they have to the 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.440 law in the area where they operate. All right, huge 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:03.040 big questions that have yet to be answered. Bloomberg's Sarah Fiar, 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:05.800 editor for our Tech Team, Thank you, Sarah. Now, while 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:08.920 tech companies might be offering their employees navigating a new 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:13.280 important abortion landscape help, there are concerns, and Sarah said 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:16.160 about the information these companies have on their users and 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:18.280 how it could be used against them if they try 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:22.840 to access an abortion. Digital rights experts warned that search trees, 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:26.600 location data app usage could all be fair game for 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:28.840 more on this. I'm joined by Cynthia Conti Cook. She's 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:31.640 a civil rights attorney and currently at Tech fellow at 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:36.280 the Ford Foundations Gender, Racial and Ethnic Justice Team. So, Cynthia, 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:39.880 we're in some very uncharted territory here. Walk us through 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:44.640 this post row era and the heightened risk of surveillance. 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:49.559 Thank you. Yes, we are not going back in time. 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:54.400 We are going fast forward into uncertainty. And what we 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:59.560 have already seen happen with digital evidence used against people 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:02.720 who were pregnant and we're charged with conduct related to 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:07.560 the termination of their pregnancies, is that that information was 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:12.960 text messages, it was email receipts, it was search histories 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:16.520 and websites visited. That's the information that already has been 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:20.160 used in cases we've already examined coming in front of 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:24.560 courts across the country. How do you expect companies to 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:28.360 handle this information? I mean, I wonder is there going 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:31.120 to be some sort of shadow economy or even a 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:38.360 shadow society created as a result. Absolutely, people will be 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:42.559 pushed into shadow economies and pushed into places where they 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:47.400 are experiencing a lot more vulnerability as a result of 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:52.520 this decision. So the tech companies have here to to 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.920 to do something about it, to take a stand one 0:09:55.960 --> 0:10:01.200 way or another. Tech companies could engage in a few 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:05.280 different ways. They could, for example, collect less data in 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:08.760 addition to I've heard a few tech companies speak to 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:12.120 location data recently, but location data so far has not 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:15.319 been used in criminal court against pregnant people. However, their 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:20.440 search histories have, their website tract have. The other things 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:23.920 that tech companies can do is become very prepared to 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:26.720 go into court and actually pushed back against the requests 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:29.800 that they get from law enforcement to share information about 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:33.400 what what websites people are looking at and what information 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.440 they're searching for. So you're talking about the biggest and 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:39.000 most powerful companies in the world. So, for example, Senators 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:41.640 Around Widen and Elizabeth Warren wrote a letter to the 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:46.120 fc FTC asking them to investigate Apple and Google's role 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:50.080 in all of this. What responsibility do you think these 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:55.480 companies have. The companies provide a very important service that 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:58.960 allows people to access information about their healthcare. This is 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:01.400 very simply a public health issue much more than it 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:06.480 is a technology issue, and the technology companies need to 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:10.360 understand that the information they collect and store and the 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.640 law enforcement agencies that they provide it to will in 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:16.559 turn use it to criminalize the people that they are 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:19.160 relying on to be their users and to be the 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:24.040 people who will purchase information and of commit to their advertisers. 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:28.000 It's part of the ecosystem. And if they are disregarding 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:31.720 the rights and welfare of the people that they are 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:35.199 serving through the technologies that they provide, those people are 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:39.400 going to be less and less able to participate. Now, 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.360 there are these big companies, you know, that's one thing, 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:45.200 but there's also a host of startups offering you know, 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:48.719 women and family health care UM and I wonder what 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:52.120 you think the role is of those companies, less powerful, 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:56.320 obviously less well resourced, you know, being put in a 0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:00.160 in a very difficult position where you know, in any 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:03.480 afford to states this is all just totally fine, and 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:08.640 in the rest of the country it's not. First, smaller startups, 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:14.040 I would say that they first should be they should 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:18.240 find out from the places that are already existing and 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:21.120 have been serving the abortion access movement what the needs 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:25.240 are for the UH questions that they're asking and for 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:29.800 the types of services that they are considering making available. First, 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:33.560 the people that are going to be using the service 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:36.720 should be involved in designing it. Now, what do you 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:40.480 think about the role of these quote unquote crisis pregnancy firms. 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:44.760 Bloomberg has reported that these firms, which are encouraging women 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:48.840 to not get abortion, are also scooping up data on 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:54.040 women who are seeking abortion. Yes, that's right, they are. 0:12:55.320 --> 0:13:00.920 The crisis pregnancy centers have been very delus really not 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:04.680 just through in person interviews collecting information about people, but 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:08.480 simply through existing as a website collecting information about people 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:12.440 that visit their websites in the same way. So, what's 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.840 your advice to women right now about protecting their digital 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:19.840 autonomy in this kind of messy middle where we are, 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:22.480 where a lot of this has yet to be decided 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:26.880 and this law was just overturned. In the same way 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:31.160 that we should not all be individually responsible for protecting 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:35.079 ourselves against COVID, we should all not be individually responsible 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:39.760 for securing all of our digital devices and having all 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:43.199 the knowledge of what types of information is collected about us. 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:46.040 But there are a few things that people can do. 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:50.439 Secure your devices, Do not share your devices voluntarily with 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:55.840 police officers, social workers, anyone at a hospital. Secure your communications. 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.880 Make sure that you're using encrypted communication, even very casual, 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:03.120 and that you have all of your contacts already imported 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:07.480 and secure your browsing, so use as your default browser 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.280 the types of browsers that are not going to track 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:14.480 you as you visit website to website. All right, Cynthia 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:19.760 Conte Cook, fascinating new landscape to explore. Ford Foundation, fellow 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:23.320 civil rights attorney, thank you well. A new poll suggests 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:26.600 that a majority of Americans disapprove of the U. S. 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:30.600 Supreme Court's decision to overturn the constitutional right to an abortion. 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:34.880 According to the CBS News survey, fifty opposed this ruling, 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:40.040 including six of women, while seventy percent of Republicans support 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:47.240 Supreme courts action of Democrats disapprove. Coming up with the 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:50.680 boyfriend of Farina's founder Elizabeth Holmes, will he face the 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:54.160 same fate? A joury is deliberating the future of Sunny 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:57.880 Baldwani right now, We're gonna have the latest on the case. Next, 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:09.360 this is Bloomberg. A jury is now deliberating in the 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:12.760 trial of Sonny ball Waming, the former second in command 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:16.560 at Sara No Nos and ex boyfriend to founder Elizabeth Holmes. 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.120 While Wanni's lawyers have done their best to try to 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:23.000 separate him from Holmes, who was found guilty of DEFRAUDI 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.160 investors back in January for more on the trial. I'm 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.160 joined by Bloomberg Stral Rosenblatt, who covered the Holmes trial 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:30.400 for US. And you were in the courtroom every day 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:32.480 for the trial of Elizabeth Holmes. You've been in there 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:35.960 for much of the trial of Sonny Ball Wanni. Have 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:41.560 lawyers been successful separating the two? You know, we're gonna 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:44.600 find out. I'm not sure. It's just gonna be interesting 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:49.920 to see what what jurors think. Uh. Elizabeth Holmes has 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:53.320 loomed large over this trial. I was in closing arguments 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:57.560 last week and on one day alone in in his 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:03.920 lawyers closing arguments, she was mentioned nineties six times. So 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.280 so they're they're trying what what Sonny's lawyers are trying 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:10.600 to do. I say that he too was defrauded by 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:14.120 Elizabeth Holmes, that that she tricked him to. That's what 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:17.800 they're trying to pull off. Um, I think that's going 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:22.920 to be unsuccessful. The jury was instructed to separate the two, 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:28.360 and so you wonder if it's actually gonna work. Yeah, 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.000 that's to me the kind of the real conundrum of 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:34.560 this trial and confusing for jurors because they got an instruction. 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:36.960 I sent you the instructions up. I don't enough you're 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:41.640 able to show that, but asked yours to to not 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:46.440 consider any fact or aspect of Elizabeth Holmes's trial. And 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:50.080 that's you know, read very legally and very technically. You're 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:54.160 not supposed to consider the trial. That's okay, that's the instruction. 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:59.600 But she has permeated this entire affair and the trial. 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:02.240 And I said, she's been mentioned so many times that 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:06.000 it's impossible for them to to to I think, separate 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:07.720 the two of them out, and that's part of the 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:10.600 reason he's in so much trouble. What is your perception 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:15.840 after spending so much time in the courtroom, you know, 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:18.520 is it clear that one had more of a role 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:23.159 than another, or were they working in tandem? You know, 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:27.320 some of these lawyers have said that he joined much later. 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.840 She founded the company and he joined years later. Um, 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:33.640 that's another way that his lawyers have tried to say 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:36.480 this was her company and he kind of just got 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:40.560 duped or got pulled in. But the we've seen the 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:45.280 same texts and the same emails that were shown at 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:49.639 Elizabeth Holmes trial, showing how tight they were that even 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:52.359 he was the president of the company, she was CEO. 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:56.159 But even in that kind, in those titles, they just 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:59.919 held a very special place at the company, special roles. 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:03.399 They held onto information that only they could see or 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:07.560 they decided who could see what. So they were in tandem. 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:11.480 And that's that's that's what geors are going to see, 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:13.040 and that's what they're going to contemplate it. And does 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:16.480 he face the same potential sentence he does. I mean, 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:18.679 part of the reasons she hasn't been sentenced yet is 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:22.080 because the judge wants to figure out his role in 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:26.200 relationship to hers. They look to be so closely aligned 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:29.640 that I think they're both facing between eight and ten 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:33.800 years of prison. Interesting now, Elizabeth Holmes, the deliberations took 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:37.000 much longer than any of us expected. Do you think 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:39.919 that's going to happen here? Yeah, this trial is just 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.200 kind of it's just very different. It's been much quieter. 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:46.119 So you don't have the media showing up at two 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:48.840 am dressed like Elizabeth Holmes. You don't have that. You 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:52.040 don't have that the the courtrooms are actually very quiet 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:54.960 and almost empty. His family is sitting right behind him, 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:59.760 just packed together, even though there's space in the courtroom. Um, 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:02.879 I you know what they're seeing is it's really a 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.760 very different trial. I mean there's the same facts, but 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:08.320 there's not this kind of energy, not this kind of 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:11.639 pressure that I know. Jurors in the Homeless trial I 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:14.439 was speaking to them afterwards felt to to make a 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:17.880 decision and make the right decision. I think here they 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:20.720 could decide it kind of easier and without the pressure. 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:26.240 So interesting, not as long I'm expecting. Well, keep following. 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:36.480 Have you back when there is one? Thank you. This 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:39.720 is a moment that feels that it has been twelve 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:41.959 years in the making, and if you look at today's 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:46.399 technology companies, the very very large majority of will survive it. 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:50.280 The question is do they have a strategy to thrive afterwards. 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:52.240 The best time to start a company is where do 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:54.480 you notice such it? It's clear right now the market 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:57.080 is going to reward real companies to build real things 0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:59.240 and make real earnings. Now we are going into a 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:02.719 world where we're going to have to be more discerning. 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:06.760 I think that the place of opportunity today that We're 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:11.359 quite focused on continue to be uh is on cyber security. 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:15.040 I would say, you know, pick sectors that are essential businesses, 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:20.679 essential markets, government perhaps draw also think the future work 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:24.239 continues to be a place of great opportunity. A lot 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:27.120 of companies will will be absorbed in. Other companies will 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:32.280 just disappear um. But at the end, typically a situation 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:34.800 like this creates a lot of new growth. So there 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:38.639 are bright spots, but no question we're in for choppy times. 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:42.159 Welcome back to bloom More Technology and Emily Chin in 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:45.360 San Francisco. Snapshots there of the reactions we've gotten from 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:48.560 investors and CEOs right here on our show about their 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:51.480 outlook on the market downturn, what the next big thing 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:54.800 could be. This has data from CB Insights shows that 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:58.920 private capital back startups raised far fewer rounds of funding 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:01.560 in the last three months they did late last year 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:03.840 early this year. I want to stick with this now 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:06.399 and bringing Phil Haslett for more on it. He's a 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:09.760 founder in chief strategy officeer for equities and so first 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:11.960 of all, Phil, we hadge back on the show in March. 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:13.959 Where do you think we are right now in the 0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:18.440 cycle of this particular downturn, Yeah, I think we've continued 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:20.960 the trend since we last spoken March, which is that 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:23.840 you know, private valuations tend to lag a little bit 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:26.359 behind public ones, and we're just kind of starting to 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:29.120 see that reality set in through Q two as observed 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:32.160 through some of the CD Insights data. Something that we've 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:35.000 seen on our side is that maybe if companies were 0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:37.560 trading on the equities and platform in the secondaries, that 0:21:37.600 --> 0:21:41.120 maybe discount and Q one to the most recent funding ground. 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:43.440 We're seeing that to continue to go downwards towards maybe 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:46.000 the forty to six percent drop, which again is kind 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:48.080 of reflective what we're seeing in the public markets. So 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:50.560 I think we uh may be reaching the bottom here, 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:52.560 but we've we've certainly kind of continued the slide over 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:55.760 the past few months. Some venture capitalists are recommending not 0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:58.080 just one to two years of runway, but three to 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:00.440 four years of runway. I mean, can start ups really 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:04.040 handled that when their businesses are already getting a hit? Yeah, 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:06.200 it's an easy thing for a bunch of venture capitalists 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:08.840 to say. I think it's no company was really prepared 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:11.880 to have three to four years of cash um as 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:13.720 a startup, the same way that no company back in 0:22:13.760 --> 0:22:17.200 cobD was really prepared for an environment with zero revenue 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:19.720 for a period of time. So I think that's a 0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:22.119 bit unrealistic. I think what you will see is kind 0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:25.360 of a definite shift in atitude and how companies are 0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:28.000 sending money. In particular, UM, one of the things they 0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:31.080 can control, has already kind of observed by UM some 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:34.920 pretty significant headcount reductions. You know, we we've seen that that. 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:37.560 You know, compensation really is the majority of stend for 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:39.640 most of these technology companies, so will expect to see 0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:42.400 that continue. So let's talk to us. Uh So, talk 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:44.280 to us about these folks who are getting laid off. 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:47.160 A lot of people don't understand that employees who work 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:49.720 at startups. You know, half of the upside is the 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:52.560 equity in those startups, But you have to buy that 0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:56.520 equity in order to benefit from that upside, often before 0:22:56.720 --> 0:22:58.760 you know if the startup is going to be a 0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:01.920 success or not. So when you get laid off from 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:05.080 a company, you have a very short window oftentimes in 0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:08.520 order to buy that equity. Can you explain to us 0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:12.399 what these laid off employees are going through right now? Yeah? Absolutely, 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:14.560 it's you know, it's a tough time. You know, it 0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:16.919 starts off by getting laid off, which is obviously a 0:23:16.920 --> 0:23:20.520 big hit to someone's or financial future. UM. It's compounded 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:22.720 by the fact that most of these employees, as you mentioned, 0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:25.840 are issued you know, stock options, which basically give them 0:23:25.880 --> 0:23:28.880 the rights to purchase shares of the company they work for. UM. 0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:31.399 And that's usually a really big hook uh and and 0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:34.960 incentive for for these employees to have joined the companies. Unfortunately, 0:23:35.040 --> 0:23:36.800 most of the rules around this say that you have 0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:41.480 ninety days to basically buy those shares after you've left 0:23:41.480 --> 0:23:43.639 the company or even if you're terminated. So you can 0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:47.119 kind of imagine this really unfortunate scenario where hundreds or 0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:49.560 thousands of employees are getting laid off and are then 0:23:49.600 --> 0:23:51.879 given a really short window to decide if they should 0:23:52.560 --> 0:23:54.960 pay money out of pocket and incur a tax bill 0:23:55.040 --> 0:23:57.520