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Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is independent investigative journalist Walter Kurt. So

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Speaker 1: nice to have you on, Walter.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on, Carol.

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Speaker 1: So, how did you become an independent investigative journalist? What

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Speaker 1: was the path to this?

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Speaker 2: Not the normal path, I would say that, you know,

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Speaker 2: I was actually a mechanic for ten years.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, it was really not the normal path.

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Speaker 2: Definitely not well. I grew up in DC. I grew

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Speaker 2: up in the political world and determined I hate it.

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Speaker 2: It's terrible. All these people suck. It's all these people

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Speaker 2: are all terrible. I hate all of them. So I

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Speaker 2: decided to move away from it. And I thought I

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Speaker 2: would be able to get away with that. And now

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Speaker 2: it didn't work out like that. You know. It took

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Speaker 2: about ten years before life caught up to me. And

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Speaker 2: then COVID happened, and then the world started falling apart

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Speaker 2: in my eyes, and I was like, Okay, I don't

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Speaker 2: have a choice. I got to do something. So I

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Speaker 2: started my own substack in that and it just grew

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Speaker 2: and grew and grew and grew and took off.

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Speaker 1: Wow, you only started during COVID, Like, I feel like

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Speaker 1: I've been reading you and listening to for far longer

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Speaker 1: than that. It's really only been that long.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's funny that you say that, Carol, because I

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Speaker 2: followed your account for a long time and read all

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Speaker 2: your work for a long time. So it's interesting to

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Speaker 2: me that you say that, because to me, I started

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Speaker 2: You wouldn't believe this, but last year, in November of

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Speaker 2: last year, I think I had two thousand followers on

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Speaker 2: x Wow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah quick growth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well it was. It was a hell of

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Speaker 2: a rock So definitely definitely quick growth.

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Speaker 1: So what was your biggest breaking story, like what propelled

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Speaker 1: you to that kind of growth?

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Speaker 2: Well, I had a couple of things go viral during

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Speaker 2: the dough stuff, but the biggest thing was definitely when

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Speaker 2: I got swatted. So I got swatted with the group,

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Speaker 2: but there was about fifteen other journalists all got swatted

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Speaker 2: at the same time. And ever since then, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's just been rocket ship AFTERWYD Yeah, so it's just

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Speaker 2: been NonStop.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any who did that or what the

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Speaker 1: motivation was. I mean, I know what the motive, larger

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Speaker 1: motivation was, but why did they pick you?

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Speaker 2: Like, why me. That's a good question, because I think

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Speaker 2: at the time I had a thing. I think I

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Speaker 2: had about thirty thousand followers or forty thousand followers. I

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Speaker 2: have no idea, you know. My only thought was it

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Speaker 2: was something to do with what I was writing about

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Speaker 2: at the time. I was talking a lot about Ukraine. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and some there were some government contracts that was going through.

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Speaker 2: I actually got a cease and desist around the same

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Speaker 2: time period. But you know, I don't know if it

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Speaker 2: was right, if it was all the same thing or not.

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Speaker 2: I mean, someone wanted everyone to stop doing the dose stuff.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you that much interesting obvious.

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Speaker 1: Okay. I guess that makes a lot of sense that

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Speaker 1: it was the doge thing that might have led to that.

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Speaker 1: But you never know, right, people become obsessed with you,

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Speaker 1: or they become obsessed with what you're working on, even

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Speaker 1: when it's not super big. I can think of instances

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Speaker 1: like I think my career really blew up during COVID,

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Speaker 1: But before that, I had a column in the New

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Speaker 1: York Post for years. But I would have like obsessive

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Speaker 1: people get really into what I was writing about, even

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Speaker 1: though I also didn't have that many followers and I wasn't, like, right, no,

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Speaker 1: famous by any estimation. So you really don't ever know

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Speaker 1: any regrets about leaving your mechanic job and going into

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Speaker 1: this crazy thing we do.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, at first, it was something that I

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Speaker 2: wasn't sure if it was something I wanted to do.

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Speaker 2: You know, me, I was supposed to be essentially a

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Speaker 2: DC circuit lawyer, is what wh family wanted me to be.

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Speaker 2: I grew up in politics. So it's like, you know,

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Speaker 2: I just I despised it. But you know, now that

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Speaker 2: I'm back into it, it's like, you know, this is

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Speaker 2: just what I'm supposed to do. I can tell that

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Speaker 2: this is where I'm supposed to be at because things

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Speaker 2: just keep happening in that direction. I mean know, as

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Speaker 2: of now I'm full time into this. Now it's been

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Speaker 2: about a few months now me doing it like this,

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Speaker 2: but it's it's it's definitely been wild. Do I regret it?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I miss this simple life also that.

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Speaker 1: Much, this anonymity, you know, not getting.

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Speaker 2: Swatted, yeah, not getting swatted, not having you know, death

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Speaker 2: threats right like every single day. You know, those things

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Speaker 2: are not a great part of this world. But but

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Speaker 2: at the same time, it's just you know, I missed

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Speaker 2: the more or thing I missed is working in the

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Speaker 2: shop with the guys. I love doing, you know, I

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Speaker 2: was I was a good mechanic, I was master mechanics,

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Speaker 2: so I love doing that. So yeah, it was That's

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Speaker 2: what I definitely say i'd miss But at the same time,

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Speaker 2: it's just this is just NonStop, go go, go, go,

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Speaker 2: go now, so I just don't know, there's no there's

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Speaker 2: no real time to think about that for me.

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Speaker 1: I guess what's your favorite part about it?

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Speaker 2: Probably that aspect of it. You know, it's probably the constant.

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Speaker 2: No matter what I think I'm doing, I've always got

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Speaker 2: twenty five other things that I'm supposed to be doing.

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Speaker 2: It's never ending, which you know is to me. That's

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Speaker 2: just kind of how my attitude's always been. I'm always

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Speaker 2: someone that likes to work constantly anyway, So I kind

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Speaker 2: of like that.

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Speaker 1: What's your favorite kind of beat? Do you have something

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Speaker 1: specific you love to chase down?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I really like financial crimes and stuff like that, so,

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Speaker 2: you know, fraud stories or government corruption stories. The biggest

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Speaker 2: story I had this past year was the two the

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Speaker 2: two girls in Fairfax County, the abortion scandal. That was

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Speaker 2: the largest story I had last year. But that's just

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Speaker 2: that's another corruption scandal, and tell us about.

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Speaker 1: It, because I feel like Fairfax County could any number

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Speaker 1: of stories.

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Speaker 2: So in the middle of the summer around I think

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Speaker 2: it was late July and summer, there was a teacher

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Speaker 2: there that's got me a story said that there was

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Speaker 2: two young girls that were they the school facilitated getting

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Speaker 2: them abortions and didn't tell their parents about it. And

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Speaker 2: further remember this, Yeah, and the allegation further than that

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Speaker 2: was that that they had used school funding to pay

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Speaker 2: for it. Wow, And that's you know, they've got it

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Speaker 2: all written down and had a lot of sourcing behind it.

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Speaker 2: But you know, there was a state police investigation opened.

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Speaker 2: But I assume that now that spam Burger's in there,

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Speaker 2: that's not that's probably dead. That's that's my guess.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess that kind of thing should be bipartisan,

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Speaker 1: Like who wouldn't want to know the school is overstepping

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Speaker 1: in that way even if you are a liberal, right,

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Speaker 1: even if you're liberally your pro choice, if the school

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Speaker 1: is stepping in and taking your kid to get an abortion, like,

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Speaker 1: who could possibly support that?

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Speaker 2: That's what I do here. We are Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 2: to me, the biggest question I asked everybody. I mean,

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Speaker 2: these girls were not like these girls were fifteen sixteen

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Speaker 2: years old at when this happened. I said, do you

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Speaker 2: want I mean one of them most apparently when they

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Speaker 2: wanted to give their boor she she didn't go through

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Speaker 2: with it. One of them didn't, but she was in

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Speaker 2: like second trimester trimester, like five months pregnant. And I

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Speaker 2: was like, I said, that would have been anesthesia. You know,

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Speaker 2: that wouldn't have been as simple. Certain, So do you

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Speaker 2: want your your daughter on getting anesthesia on a surgical

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Speaker 2: table without you knowing about it? I mean, for any

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Speaker 2: reason exactly? That is what my thought was.

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Speaker 1: Do you think we're in an era where people are

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Speaker 1: taking financial crimes more seriously? Like it feels like that,

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Speaker 1: But it's always hard to tell if it's just in

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Speaker 1: our conservative world people are having their eyes open to

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Speaker 1: just how bad financial crimes have become, or if it's

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Speaker 1: kind of the normis have gotten the message too.

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Speaker 2: Maybe. I mean, I think the I definitely think that

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Speaker 2: normal people are angry about especially when tax dollars. People

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Speaker 2: expect there to be financial.

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Speaker 1: Crimes they expect that.

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Speaker 2: But not they don't expect it to be so bad

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Speaker 2: that there's you know, a quality leering center. Let's just

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Speaker 2: put it down. I mean, that's the kind of things

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Speaker 2: they don't expect.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I think that's probably right. And something like

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Speaker 1: that really jars people a week and says to them like,

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Speaker 1: there's much worse going on that you don't even.

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Speaker 2: Know about exactly exactly. I mean, that's what that's what

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Speaker 2: my comment isn't mean these are the stupid ones? What

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Speaker 2: about the smart ones? That's what my thought is.

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Speaker 1: Right, if you weren't doing this, or if it hadn't

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Speaker 1: worked out, would plan be go be a mechanic again,

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Speaker 1: or did you have something else in mind?

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Speaker 2: No, I'd probably go back and just be a mechanic again.

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Speaker 2: I mean I still have you know, I've got more

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Speaker 2: tools than you can possibly imagine. I've got a toolbox

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Speaker 2: the size of my garage, So if I needed to.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the great thing about this is that if

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Speaker 2: this doesn't work out, I can always go do that.

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Speaker 2: You know, It's an easy fallback, and there will always

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Speaker 2: be work for those people. Because while AI takes over

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Speaker 2: the world, it's not going to be able to fix

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Speaker 2: your radiator in your car?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So what about that district court job?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: Not not thinking about it. So are your parents happy

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Speaker 1: with what you're doing or do they still dream of

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Speaker 1: you being a judge someday?

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Speaker 2: No? No, they they definitely like my path now. They

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Speaker 2: were okay with what I was doing before, but the

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Speaker 2: moment I stepped into this, they were like, finally he

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Speaker 2: finally he came back. And that's what I think their

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Speaker 2: comment really is.

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Speaker 1: So do you feel like you found your kind of purpose?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah, I definitely feel like that. I mean, to me,

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Speaker 2: what I was doing before, I was good at it.

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Speaker 2: But you know, there's there's always a little nagging feeling

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Speaker 2: that says that you're supposed to be doing something more,

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Speaker 2: especially if you are supposed to be doing something more

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Speaker 2: and you know it mm hmm. And that definitely happened

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Speaker 2: over the It was really the birth of my daughter

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Speaker 2: that pushed me in this direction, to be honest with you, So.

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Speaker 1: It brings me to a question I ask all of

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Speaker 1: my guests, what are you most proud of in your life?

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Speaker 2: Definitely my kids? Definitely my kids. My daughter is my

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Speaker 2: whole world. How old she is two and a half.

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Speaker 1: I thought, that's a good age.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So what is it.

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Speaker 1: What is it about having children that fills you with pride?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's the next generation is important, but watch them

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Speaker 2: grow is something amazing to me, you know. And it's

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Speaker 2: not been easy. I mean, the strange thing about all

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Speaker 2: this is that when I got into this world, the

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Speaker 2: family life that I had was much simpler and my

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Speaker 2: wife and she did not get along with what I've

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Speaker 2: been doing and since I got into this, but I

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Speaker 2: did this because I felt like I needed to make

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Speaker 2: a better world for my daughter. I was walking away

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Speaker 2: from it and she did not like what I'm doing.

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Speaker 2: So it's been difficult and getting around that and getting

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Speaker 2: through that, but you know, I mean, it even resulted

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Speaker 2: in enough separating. But at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: it's been rough. But at the same time, I would

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Speaker 2: never trade any of it because to me, the only

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Speaker 2: thing that matters is the future prospects. And I don't

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Speaker 2: want my daughter to grow up in a world that

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Speaker 2: is falling apart. I mean, I want her to grow

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Speaker 2: up in the same world that I grew up in.

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Speaker 2: And my thought is it seemed to me that if

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Speaker 2: I didn't do something to try and fix it that

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Speaker 2: it would.

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Speaker 1: Are you optimistic do you think that the future looks.

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Speaker 2: Brighter or absolutely no? I definitely think that. I don't

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Speaker 2: like the people that go full negative black pill. There's

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Speaker 2: no hope whatsoever, because the reality is that as long

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Speaker 2: as there's somebody doing something, and there's a number, there's

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Speaker 2: more people doing things now than I've ever seen before.

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Speaker 2: It's amazing to see. Really, I mean, everywhere I go,

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Speaker 2: I've got twenty five people that are all interested in

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Speaker 2: doing things, and that didn't happen before normally was I

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Speaker 2: mean for the first few years that I was doing this,

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Speaker 2: it was just me. I mean, there's no one else

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Speaker 2: helping me. There's no one else talking to you about it.

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Speaker 2: And it's not because I wasn't trying to get involved

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Speaker 2: with people, but it was mostly people that wanted to

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Speaker 2: talk about problems instead of actually do anything about it,

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Speaker 2: which is, you know that doesn't help you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think the next frontier is in

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Speaker 1: exposing fraud? Do you think you continue down the financial path?

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Speaker 2: Well? I think the real part about it to me,

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Speaker 2: which is I've got a big presentation I'm supposed to

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Speaker 2: do on a couple on the eleventh I'm supposed to

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Speaker 2: be in Florida to talk about this. The big thing

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Speaker 2: to me that everyone's kind of missing is that the

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Speaker 2: fraud seems to follow where these giant riots are, which

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Speaker 2: are some locations of all of the Torch network, which

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Speaker 2: is Antifa. So to me, I don't know what it is,

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Speaker 2: but something about it tells me that it's all related.

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Speaker 2: And I haven't been able to prove it yet, but

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Speaker 2: that's what I think. I think this story is going

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Speaker 2: to eventually end up in fraudulent networks are supplying the

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Speaker 2: activists that are riding in the streets, and it's all

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Speaker 2: paid for by the top, and that's what I.

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Speaker 1: Think so interesting. Yeah, even if, like let's say, giving

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Speaker 1: them the benefit of the doubt that it's not fraud,

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Speaker 1: which I totally think it is, don't get me wrong,

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Speaker 1: but like it seems like it's been a works program,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's been exposed over the last year, where

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Speaker 1: everybody's getting paid, everybody's collecting a chuck from the government,

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Speaker 1: and the fact that that's bigot has been somewhat turned off.

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Speaker 1: I think that also leads to people rioting in the

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Speaker 1: street and the encouragement of that kind of thing. Because

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Speaker 1: this money fountain has been essentially shown.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean, if you really look at the

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Speaker 2: numbers on it, and this is kind of shocking stuff

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Speaker 2: when you realize it is that ten percent of the workforce, right,

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Speaker 2: ten percent of the workforce works for NGOs. Now that's

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Speaker 2: a large number, twelve point million. It's a huge number,

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Speaker 2: but it gets a little bit more refined if you

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Speaker 2: go through it. So you know, you can't say that

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Speaker 2: all of those people are the people out in the sits.

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Speaker 2: That's not true, because a lot of them are, you know,

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Speaker 2: like hospitals and places like that that are considered nonprofit organizations.

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Speaker 2: But if you really refine the numbers down on the

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Speaker 2: bottom of it, there's still about a million to two

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Speaker 2: million people that work for activist specific inngos, right, I mean,

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Speaker 2: and that means you've got a million people and you

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Speaker 2: can take that number and they become force multipliers in

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Speaker 2: every city they're in. They can work with all their

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Speaker 2: little local NGOs and everything else is so everywhere they go.

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Speaker 2: So if they send twenty thousand people to city B,

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Speaker 2: and City B immediately starts doing huge protests everywhere. Well,

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Speaker 2: the twenty thousand people just helped it and they're all paid,

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Speaker 2: you know, one hundred and twenty thousand dollars a year.

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Speaker 1: How do you expose a network like that? It seems impossible.

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Speaker 2: Well, the deal is the network is already really exposed.

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Speaker 2: What you need to do, and this is something that

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Speaker 2: I've been telling everybody recently, is you know a lot

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Speaker 2: of the people on the political right, what they do

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Speaker 2: is they say, oh, it's all Soros cool. I mean,

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Speaker 2: like Ypie, everyone knows that. But that doesn't help you.

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Speaker 2: What you need is to prove what's happening on the ground,

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Speaker 2: which I think is starting to happen. It's starting to

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Speaker 2: happen now. The journalists are independent journalists are starting to

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Speaker 2: figure this out. And that's why they're all over the place.

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Speaker 2: I mean they're in Minneapolis, they're in California, they're you know,

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Speaker 2: they're in Texas. They're all over the place. Now, go

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Speaker 2: into looking for this stuff, because the big key is

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Speaker 2: going to be figuring out how do the people on

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Speaker 2: the ground get there. I mean they show up there,

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Speaker 2: they're there that we know that, we see them in

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Speaker 2: multiple cities. But how do they get paid? Someone pays them,

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Speaker 2: Someone pays them for something, And that's stuff that no

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Speaker 2: one knows yet. So I think the problem is we've

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Speaker 2: been trying to go from the top down and we

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Speaker 2: should be going from the bottom up and trying to

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Speaker 2: figure it out.

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Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be right

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Speaker 1: back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. How do people on

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Speaker 1: the right support independent investigative journalists like you?

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Speaker 2: The best way you can is if you find somebody

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Speaker 2: that you trust is to subscribe to them and help

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Speaker 2: them buy you know, you can also, I tell everybody

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Speaker 2: you can be in researcher. Send stuff. I mean I

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Speaker 2: get tons of stuff sent to me all the time.

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Speaker 2: Not all it's useful, but I try to read it anyway.

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Speaker 2: I mean I try to read every message that people

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Speaker 2: send me. Now it's nearly impossible, you know. I remember

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Speaker 2: hearing that Charlie Kirk read every email I ever got,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, wow, I don't know how on earth

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Speaker 2: he ever did that. I mean to me, you know,

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Speaker 2: I get fifty thousand DMS in a week and I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I don't. I try. I try to keep up with people,

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Speaker 2: but there's no way I can do it. But in

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Speaker 2: terms of supporting people like us, if you go to

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Speaker 2: go to our platforms, I mean, all of a sudden

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Speaker 2: are some form of independent platform that you can operate

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Speaker 2: on or subscribe on. I've got subscriptions on X, I've

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Speaker 2: got I've got the substack. The substack's best, and there's

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Speaker 2: even tip jars, I mean financial support. Doing this stuff

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Speaker 2: is dangerous, but more it's not just the dangerous part,

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Speaker 2: but if everyone forgets the travel aspect is probably the

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Speaker 2: most expensive, right, being able to move between city to

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Speaker 2: city to city. That's the expensive part. I don't have

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Speaker 2: the point where I need security or whatnot yet, but

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Speaker 2: you know, some of these guys do need security too.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you're well known, people like Nextsorder and

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Speaker 2: surely both of them, they probably have to have security

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Speaker 2: anywhere they go now, which is just you know, that's

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Speaker 2: the unfortunate thing, really, isn't it. When you finally make it,

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Speaker 2: what do you look forward to all of your earnings

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Speaker 2: that you would get, Yeah, you have to pay for security,

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Speaker 2: which is just terrible.

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Speaker 1: It's so wrong, and it doesn't It just doesn't happen

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Speaker 1: on the other side. In the same way as somebody

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Speaker 1: rises through the ranks of kind of reporting on the left,

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Speaker 1: they don't suddenly become targets for people on the right. No,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't happen that way.

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Speaker 2: No, I've never I've said this all the time on

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Speaker 2: my show. I've I don't think I have ever heard

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Speaker 2: of a riot at a left wing commentator's.

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Speaker 1: Speech, right or home or anything like that.

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Speaker 2: Seriously, I mean, like, I mean, just when's the last

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Speaker 2: time Jake Tapper had a riot outside of the stage, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that doesn't happen.

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Speaker 1: Happen. Do you think you have a book in.

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Speaker 2: You Yeah, at some point. You know, I wrote something

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Speaker 2: last year. I was trying to refine it down, but

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Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to run out of time. My

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Speaker 2: intention was to try and have it published before this summer.

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Speaker 2: It was going to be a you know, a handbook

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Speaker 2: type thing. Was going to be a short book that

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Speaker 2: was designed for ground activists, and it was going to

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Speaker 2: be there's the old Book, the Alenski Book, the Rules

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Speaker 2: for Radicals. It was going to be Rules for Radical Patriotism.

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Speaker 2: It was the name of the book, so.

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Speaker 1: You should definitely do that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was trying to get it done. I was

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Speaker 2: trying to get it to the point whereas ninety pages.

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Speaker 2: I wanted it to be small enough people could carry

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Speaker 2: it with them. That was the intention. But yeah, I

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Speaker 2: just getting the amount of things that I'm working on now,

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Speaker 2: it's impossible to keep up. So that'll be done eventually.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I'll get it done for twenty eight. That'll be

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Speaker 2: the hope.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really good idea. I think you should

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Speaker 1: absolutely do that. Give us a five year out prediction,

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Speaker 1: and it could be about anything at all.

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Speaker 2: Five year out prediction.

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Speaker 1: Anything, politics, music, whatever.

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Speaker 2: Politics is probably the only thing I think about enough

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Speaker 2: to be able to give some sort of five year prediction.

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Speaker 2: Five year prediction would be m'd say that we possibly

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Speaker 2: lose the House in twenty six, hold the Senate. Twenty

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Speaker 2: eight is actually going to probably be okay because the

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Speaker 2: Democrats still don't have a platform to run nationally on.

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Speaker 2: They may be able to flip independent districts, but I

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Speaker 2: don't know how they're going to be able to do

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Speaker 2: a national campaign especially, And this is just a theory,

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Speaker 2: so I can't truly make the allegation, but I'll say,

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Speaker 2: if we prove that there are politicians that exist out

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Speaker 2: here that accept large amounts of money from government sources,

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Speaker 2: essentially that you know, goes washed out one way, washed

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Speaker 2: back in the other way and we clean the voter

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Speaker 2: rolls up. I think twenty eight we win again. I

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Speaker 2: think Vance or Rubio, I don't necessarily believe that, you know,

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Speaker 2: Vance is going to just walk right into it. I

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Speaker 2: know he's popular currently, but I think personally that it

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Speaker 2: would be better if President Trump didn't step into the

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Speaker 2: primary at all and said, you two are the candidates.

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Speaker 2: The people pick who can do that, and that does

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Speaker 2: a few things. That proves who can build the best

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Speaker 2: actual coalition to win on a smaller scale before you

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Speaker 2: do it on the national scale. And I think that's

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Speaker 2: much more important. So I'm hoping that's what happens, and

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Speaker 2: then if we win in twenty eight again, then I

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Speaker 2: believe we actually might have a chance to fix a

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Speaker 2: lot of the problem that we have right now.

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Speaker 1: That would be definitely four more years would be very important.

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Speaker 1: I agree with you though. Primaries are not a bad thing,

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Speaker 1: and they kind of reiterate what the party stands for,

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Speaker 1: and they get a lot of the negative approaches that

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Speaker 1: the candidate's going to face in the general they're going

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Speaker 1: to get to see it in the primary. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you don't have a primary, you sometimes end up

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Speaker 1: with like a Kamala Harris candidate, and that's a real problem.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean it's more than that. The deal is

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Speaker 2: the primary is important for us for a number of reasons.

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Speaker 2: Because the primary we need a candidate that can stand

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Speaker 2: up to the screw because unlike the left, the left

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Speaker 2: they don't care who they run. It means nothing to them.

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Speaker 2: They can put a dead guy, they can put Kamala Harris,

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Speaker 2: they could run a goldfish. I mean they really could.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't matter to them who the candidate is. That's

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Speaker 2: irrelevant to them. They spin up the machine and then

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Speaker 2: it fires along all the way and that's just what

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Speaker 2: they do. But on the right, everyone likes to complain

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Speaker 2: about the candidate. But to me, not complaining about the candidate.

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Speaker 2: More important to that is the can the candidate actually

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Speaker 2: handle the pressure because the pressure is significantly and it's

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Speaker 2: much worse than it is on the.

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Speaker 1: Other side, so much worse. Yeah, it's not even comparable. Basically,

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Speaker 1: the Democrats don't get to try out their arguments and

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Speaker 1: they often are surprised to hear the argument from the

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Speaker 1: right when they get to the general because their primaries

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Speaker 1: are just so not like ours at all. Well, I

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Speaker 1: have loved this conversation, Walter. I've loved learning more about you.

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Speaker 1: Leave us here with your best tip for my listeners

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Speaker 1: on how they can improve their lives.

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Speaker 2: Best tip to improve your lives would be never give

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Speaker 2: up on a goal of yours. If it's worth doing,

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Speaker 2: you should pursue it no matter what.

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Speaker 1: I love that. Thank you so much. He is Walter Kirk.

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Speaker 1: Check out his amazing investigative work and support his journalism.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Walter, Thanks for having me on,

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Speaker 1: Carol