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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, thanks for listening to Breaking Points with Crystal

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Speaker 1: and Sager. We're going to be totally upfront with you.

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Speaker 1: hour early before everyone else. You get to hear our

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Speaker 1: the show notes. Enjoy the show, guys, Good morning, everybody,

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Speaker 1: Happy Monday. We have an amazing show for everybody today

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Speaker 1: when we have Crystal. Indeed, we do lots of big

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Speaker 1: stories to get to We've been following the aftermath of

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Speaker 1: that horrible rash of tornadoes in western Kentucky and across

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Speaker 1: five different states, causing more than one hundred lives likely

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Speaker 1: to be lost. We'll give you all the latest. There

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Speaker 1: some very very eyebrow raising comments from the CEO of Visor. Surprise, Surprise.

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Speaker 1: We'll detail that big movement in the world of labor,

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Speaker 1: Starbucks workers forming the first ever US union of a

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Speaker 1: Starbucks shop that is up in Buffalo, something we've been

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Speaker 1: following closely. We've got those details. We also have on

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Speaker 1: the negative side, Kellogg's is planning to hire replacement workers

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Speaker 1: for their workforce which has been out on strike. Biden

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Speaker 1: has issued a supportive statement of the workers, So we'll

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Speaker 1: tell you what's going on there. Also, big moves over

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Speaker 1: at Fox News along time host Chris Wallace, News is out.

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Speaker 1: He is going over to CNN's Cringe new streaming service

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Speaker 1: out with a bank I guess, along with Pacy Hunts.

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Speaker 1: I got to get into that. Also, you guys probably

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Speaker 1: know UK Court has ruled in favor of the US

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Speaker 1: extra dniting Julian assance. Here, we have Julian's brother in

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Speaker 1: the program today to talk to us about his personal health.

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Speaker 1: What this means in terms of the legal fights and

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Speaker 1: of course the broader implications for free speech and censorship.

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Speaker 1: Big inflation numbers too that we want to start with.

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Speaker 1: But before we get to that, some big news regarding

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Speaker 1: Stephen Donziger. Yes, actually good news here, so you guys

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Speaker 1: probably know myself. Brianna Joy Gray, Katie Halper, Marian Williamson.

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Speaker 1: We did a live stream last week Wednesday night to

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Speaker 1: try to call attention to the fact that Stephen was

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Speaker 1: wrongfully imprisoned for the crime of helping people in Ecuador

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Speaker 1: to try to seek justice against Chevron. Chevron of course

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Speaker 1: retaliating against him finding favorable judges throwing him in prison

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Speaker 1: for a misdemeanor contempt charge, which is insane. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this doesn't happen even if you and I personally think

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Speaker 1: the charges are bogus. But even if you accept the charges,

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Speaker 1: the fact that he would serve two years of home

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Speaker 1: confinement and then six months in a federal prison because

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Speaker 1: of this was totally insane. So the day after our

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Speaker 1: live stream, prison officials released him back to home confinement.

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Speaker 1: He is not free, still in home confinement, but it

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Speaker 1: is a lot better than being than sitting in a

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Speaker 1: federal person. So really excited. This week, we'll try to

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Speaker 1: get Stephen on so we can hear from him directly.

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Speaker 1: But big development there, and we have a tweet. Let's

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Speaker 1: put that up there on the screen of Stephen actually

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Speaker 1: at home, says Danbury. Prison officials released me. Have to

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Speaker 1: serve the rest of my sentence, an extra one hundred

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Speaker 1: and thirty six days. Huge step forward in our campaign,

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Speaker 1: but the battle for freedoman to hold Chevron accountable continues.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, Chrystal, do you have any insight into

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Speaker 1: why he was released? Not really exactly, but just was No.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even know this was a thing that you

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Speaker 1: can go to prison and they're like, yeah, you're good. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we decided yeah. Well, he had said he was the

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Speaker 1: only person in the entire prison who was serving for

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Speaker 1: a misdemeanor. Well yeah, of course, right, everybody else, you

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Speaker 1: know had been convicted of a felony. I know that,

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Speaker 1: you know. I think that the prison guards and officials

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Speaker 1: they were uncomfortable with him being there from the start

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Speaker 1: because his case was such an outlier in terms of

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Speaker 1: the general prison population. Beyond that, I really don't know

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Speaker 1: exactly what happened, which is why I'm anxious. You know,

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Speaker 1: we'll try to talk to him soon and find out

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Speaker 1: what was happening behind the scenes. Also, by the way,

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Speaker 1: you know, part of what we were trying to do

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Speaker 1: with the live stream was not just to put pressure

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Speaker 1: on and raise awareness about what was going on since

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Speaker 1: he was in prison and couldn't speak for himself, but

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Speaker 1: also to help him raise funds for his legal defense fund,

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Speaker 1: which is not only about his insanely high legal fees,

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Speaker 1: which were you know, an intentional tactic of Chevron to

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Speaker 1: try to bleed him dry, but also Chevron has not

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Speaker 1: paid a single dollar of restitution to the people of

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Speaker 1: Ecuador whose community they poisoned, decimated kids born with birth defects,

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Speaker 1: massive amounts of cancer, people have died because of what

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Speaker 1: they did down there. I mean, that's those facts are

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Speaker 1: not even in dispute. They haven't paid a dollar of restitution,

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Speaker 1: and Stephen fully intends to continue to pursue that fight

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Speaker 1: against them. So the Breaking Points community contributed one thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars to his legal defense fund, which you can go

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Speaker 1: to free Doonziger dot com if you want to support him.

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Speaker 1: But that was the other piece of what we're trying

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Speaker 1: to do, because this is an important step forward, but

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Speaker 1: obviously major, major battles still remain. Yeah, we have links

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Speaker 1: down there in the description for everybody. Okay, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about inflation and it's not good. Let's say that at

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Speaker 1: the very top, we hit a forty year high with

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Speaker 1: the new release of the data. Let's put this up

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Speaker 1: there on the screen, Heather Long actually detailing where exactly

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Speaker 1: all that inflation is coming from at a six point

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Speaker 1: eight percentage rate of mind month over month, Where are

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Speaker 1: the biggest annual increases. Gas is up fifty eight percent

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Speaker 1: year over year, Rental car market thirty seven, used car

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Speaker 1: thirty one, hotels twenty six, steak twenty five, that's the

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Speaker 1: one which gas, steak, bacon, pork. Those are the ones

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Speaker 1: where you're probably going to feel it the most. Furniture

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Speaker 1: twelve percent, Fish is up eleven, new car at eleven, chicken,

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Speaker 1: bikes and eggs all in the nines and the eights,

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Speaker 1: Coffee at seven point five, and rent at three point

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Speaker 1: five percent. Now, rent, despite only being three point five percent,

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Speaker 1: and I am saying, you know, only in relation to

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Speaker 1: everything else, is one of the biggest drags on the

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Speaker 1: economy right now. Three point five percent increase on one

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Speaker 1: of the major household expenditures is going to hit people

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Speaker 1: much much harder, even necessarily than thirty seven percent increase

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Speaker 1: in the price of a used car or something like that.

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Speaker 1: And of course gas is also the same one. Lines

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Speaker 1: are pretty long at the costco. I can attest to

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Speaker 1: that for sure. Now what's interesting and sad even more

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Speaker 1: is that we've been talking here about wages, and we've

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Speaker 1: been talking about how you know, at least we are

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Speaker 1: seeing at the blue collar level, with the great resignation

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Speaker 1: and the increase in wages for all blue collar workers

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Speaker 1: on average, their ability in order to quit and go

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Speaker 1: get a higher one in the aggregate. Let's put this

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Speaker 1: on the screen. Wages are increasing at a rapid pace

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Speaker 1: in the US, but they are still not keeping pace

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Speaker 1: with consumer price inflation, so the US real average earnings

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Speaker 1: are still deeply negative, you can see in that chart there.

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Speaker 1: So you know, these two things, Crystal, are just the

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Speaker 1: story of the entire economy right now. I don't think

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Speaker 1: there's another way to say it. And just look, I

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Speaker 1: think there's a lot of once again scare mongering around

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Speaker 1: deficit spending and more whenever it comes to inflation. But

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Speaker 1: I would be remiss if I didn't say what we've

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Speaker 1: been repeating from the very beginning. This is not just

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Speaker 1: an American phenomenon. There is global inflation. So if you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: the US shouldn't have have done that stimulus bill, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, China's got double digit inflation. The entire OECD

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Speaker 1: actually has very high inflation. Let's put this up there

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Speaker 1: on the screen, global infation rates. Apparently Japan is doing well.

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Speaker 1: You know, they've always had some you know, monetary chicanery

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Speaker 1: going on there. But the United States compares with Spain, Germany,

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Speaker 1: South Africa, New Zealand, Canada, India, for the Philippines, UK, Italy,

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Speaker 1: South Korea, Finland, Singapore, Australia, all of those companies have

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Speaker 1: all countries have over three percent inflation. And you can

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Speaker 1: see also Russia, Brazil, Turkey, Argentina, Venezuela, I mean Venezuela

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Speaker 1: and Argentina long standing inflation problems there. But we are

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Speaker 1: very much, yes, on the leading edge. But it is

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Speaker 1: entirely a global phenomenon. It's largely because of shipping, because

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Speaker 1: of a massive global supply disruption, but also we talked

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Speaker 1: about each particular case has a very strange amalgam of inputs, right,

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Speaker 1: So like steak, it's like, well, we had a problem

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Speaker 1: with the meat packing plant, so then we had a

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Speaker 1: bunch of cows that were slaughtered. And also there was

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Speaker 1: a drought, and that makes it so there's less cattle.

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Speaker 1: And that combines with the fact that people are saying

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Speaker 1: at home and they're cooking more. So the demand for

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Speaker 1: stakes and for grilling is up at an all time high.

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Speaker 1: You put all those things together, you have a twenty

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Speaker 1: five percent increase. Same with coffee. There was a drought

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Speaker 1: down in Brazil. Well, Brazil supplies like forty percent or

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Speaker 1: whatever of our coffee market seven point five percent, so

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Speaker 1: across the board, that's kind of what we see. But look,

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Speaker 1: there's no denying this is destroying the Biden presidency. I

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Speaker 1: mean absolutely destroying the Biden presidency, destroying in many ways

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Speaker 1: the case, the public case for the build back Better plan.

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Speaker 1: It's giving Joe manchion a not an excuse necessarily, but

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Speaker 1: he's very much trying to push it as far as

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Speaker 1: he can in the future. And this is the number

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Speaker 1: one issue on most Americans' minds right now. Yeah, No,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly right. I mean these inflation numbers, it's the

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Speaker 1: highest in nearly forty years. So and as you as

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Speaker 1: you accurately demonstrated with that list that the areas where

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Speaker 1: prices have increased the most, these aren't things you can

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Speaker 1: easily cut back on food, gas, utilities. So it's no

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Speaker 1: wonder that and I think we have a tweet we

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Speaker 1: can show up here. Inflation is the number one issue

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Speaker 1: on Americans minds. There you can see the top three

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Speaker 1: issues in the CNBC pol not good for Democrats Inflation, immigration,

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Speaker 1: and crime. Midterms are going to look great, guys. But

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Speaker 1: I just don't think that as much as a lot

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Speaker 1: of what the liberal press wants to do, they either

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Speaker 1: want to ignore that this is going on. There's now

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Speaker 1: a new effort to say, like to point to other

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Speaker 1: numbers that show actually the economy is great, and that

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Speaker 1: is possible because there is such a mixed bag here

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Speaker 1: in terms of wages. But if your wage gains are

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Speaker 1: entirely offset by inflation, that's a real issue that if

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Speaker 1: you're not speaking to and really trying to address, people

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Speaker 1: are just going to feel like you're not in touch

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Speaker 1: with what's actually going on in their lives. As to

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Speaker 1: the causes. I mean, we've tried to track some of these.

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Speaker 1: You've done a great job of tracking down some of

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Speaker 1: the specific examples. There's apparently a similar spike in inflation

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Speaker 1: after World War Two because of a similar kind of

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Speaker 1: you know, mismatch. You had people coming home. You had

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Speaker 1: suddenly rationing was over, so people had a pent up demand.

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Speaker 1: They were, you know, flooding into stores to buy goods

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Speaker 1: and services. But you didn't have the workforce totally back

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Speaker 1: from wartime footing, so you had a similar sort of

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Speaker 1: supply chain and labor force disruption that led to a

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Speaker 1: similar spike in prices. A lot of economists are drawing

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Speaker 1: parallels here, but I also think, you know, when you

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Speaker 1: look at that list of countries and which ones have

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Speaker 1: the highest level of inflation, the fact that we're towards

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Speaker 1: the higher end of that list. I do think we

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Speaker 1: can point to some COVID policies, but not in the

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Speaker 1: way that people on the right of the spectrum pointed out.

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Speaker 1: The problem is not that we spent money. Part of

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Speaker 1: the problem is that our policies didn't keep people attached

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Speaker 1: to their jobs. Now, in the long run, for workers,

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Speaker 1: that may end up being a good thing, even though

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Speaker 1: it cost a lot of pain that I do not

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Speaker 1: want to undersell that or understate it whatsoever. But what

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Speaker 1: we see right now is workers shifting around to find

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Speaker 1: employment that's going to be more stable, that's going to

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Speaker 1: put their health and well being at lower risk. Some

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Speaker 1: workers took advantage and skilled up so that they could,

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Speaker 1: you go to a different career, perhaps a longer term,

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Speaker 1: more stable career. You see people shifting out of retail,

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Speaker 1: shifting out of healthcare, shifting out of hospitality or at large. Again,

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Speaker 1: those may not be bad things, and that's putting a

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Speaker 1: lot of upward pressure on wages in those fields, but

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Speaker 1: it also did create a lot more disruption here than

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Speaker 1: other places. Some of the answers here are simple. I

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Speaker 1: was reading another articles from Labor Notes about one of

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Speaker 1: the problems is that there aren't enough truckers, railroad workers,

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Speaker 1: or warehouse workers. The reason for that is not that

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Speaker 1: people are unwilling to do those jobs. The problem is

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Speaker 1: that the pay has been low and that it's been

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Speaker 1: you know, long hours. People I've been treated while we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about the tornadoes and Amazon warehouse workers

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Speaker 1: and what that has looked like. So a lot of

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Speaker 1: the answer here is, you know, better representation of workforce

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Speaker 1: among unions, higher wages, more predictable schedules. Those things will

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Speaker 1: iron themselves out over time, but it is going to

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Speaker 1: take some time to get there, and obviously we are

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Speaker 1: not yet there. No, absolutely. The other reason why we're

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Speaker 1: at the top of the spectrum is we consume stuff

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Speaker 1: better than everybody else. We are the world's largest consumer economy.

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Speaker 1: We have people who were locked in their houses for

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Speaker 1: a year, didn't spend any money this Christmas season. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's not just a return to baseline. It's up by

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Speaker 1: like thirty forty percent in terms of online retail. You

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Speaker 1: couple that with a shipping crisis boom, it's going to

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Speaker 1: obviously cause a problem as well. And the other problem

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Speaker 1: is I don't think anybody is just being honest here

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Speaker 1: about what's happening. Part of the problem is that the

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Speaker 1: people who want to blame this all on deficits are

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Speaker 1: turning a complete blind eye to the fact that companies

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Speaker 1: miraculously have record profit margins right now, showing that they're

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Speaker 1: taking advantage. The White House is actually out with a

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Speaker 1: decent analysis. Let's put it up there on the screen

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Speaker 1: showing dominant meat processing companies are taking advantage of market powers,

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Speaker 1: raise prices and grow profit margins. Why is their message

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Speaker 1: drowned out? Well, because they're a clown show that also

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Speaker 1: want to say that this is the best economy the

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Speaker 1: world has ever seen, or they want to be like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it's all the meat processors. Listen, it is a

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Speaker 1: confluence of events. I've gone back and I started reading

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Speaker 1: some history and some real analyzes of the nineteen seventies

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Speaker 1: inflation crisis, and it was actually the exact same thing

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Speaker 1: people at the time were trying to blame. Look, it

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Speaker 1: was Vietnam, it was the return, you know, the disruption

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Speaker 1: of the global economic order, plus Opek, plus a whole

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Speaker 1: host of other policies on top of Volker coming in

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Speaker 1: to the FED. You can't, you know, in the aggregate,

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Speaker 1: you can't answer just one answer. So like this is

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Speaker 1: why we had inflation. It's the same today. It's the

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Speaker 1: very same thing. And the problem is that people are

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Speaker 1: being you know, real dogmatic in their view this is

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Speaker 1: the cause or that is the cause. Every single category

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Speaker 1: has multiple different explanations, but the end result is the same.

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Speaker 1: There's no denying it. The stuff is way more expensive

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Speaker 1: for a lot of people, and a lot of people

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Speaker 1: are pissed off. I think they should be pissed off.

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Speaker 1: You know, we were talking about the wages. That's that's great.

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Speaker 1: You know, at the end of the day, I'm always

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Speaker 1: going to be happy when a worker against thirteen to

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Speaker 1: fifteen dollars. But look, try to buy a house at

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Speaker 1: fifteen dollars an hour. It's just not going to happen. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like the very top line stuff structurally is actually gotten

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Speaker 1: worse in many ways. Housing prices sky high. Try getting

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Speaker 1: alan from the bank right now. You know, if you

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Speaker 1: look at all the real benefits in the current economy,

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Speaker 1: it goes to the top one percent. Assets are, you know,

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Speaker 1: sky high. I think the Dow Jones is an all

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Speaker 1: time high. Ever, same with the stock market most people. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, thirteen fifteen. We're not going to erase that.

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Speaker 1: But the overall problems in the economy are times fifty

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Speaker 1: in terms of where they were in twenty nineteen. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I want to read a little bit from the Biden

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Speaker 1: response that we had up there, which is pointing on

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Speaker 1: this is something that Stoller has really beat the drum

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Speaker 1: on for a long time, even before we had this

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Speaker 1: inflation spike, which is that four conglomerates control somewhere between

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Speaker 1: fifty five and eighty five percent of the market for pork, beef,

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Speaker 1: and poultry. Those are three product categories that have seen

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Speaker 1: large spikes and inflation. You see protein is up significantly

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Speaker 1: in that chart that we showed you. And meanwhile, these middlemen,

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Speaker 1: they're using the specter of inflation to effectively jack up prices.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is price gouging. And it's not just

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Speaker 1: in this area that you're seeing it. You see lots

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Speaker 1: of corporations Fortune five hundred corporations. They got the highest

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Speaker 1: profit margins they've ever had. So it's not that their

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Speaker 1: inputs are so much more expensive, or if they are,

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Speaker 1: they're going way above and beyond what the increase in

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Speaker 1: the cost of those inputs would justify. Here's some of

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Speaker 1: the facts there. They say, according to these companies, these

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Speaker 1: four large meat packing conglomerates, their latest quarterly earnings, their

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Speaker 1: gross profits have collectively increased by more than one hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty percent since before the pandemic. Their net income

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Speaker 1: has searched by five hundred percent. They've also recently announced

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Speaker 1: over a billion dollars in new dividends and stock buybacks,

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Speaker 1: on top of the more than three billion dollars that

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Speaker 1: they paid out to shareholders since the pandemic began. So

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Speaker 1: already some of the inputs more expensive because of drought

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Speaker 1: and climate change and things that you've been tracking, surgeon,

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Speaker 1: the cost of horn which feeds the animals. Okay, and

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Speaker 1: then they on top of that layer an extra profit

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Speaker 1: margin because they can use the excuse of inflation to

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Speaker 1: do that, and they have monopoly power. There's very little

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Speaker 1: competition in this marketplace when you have just four large

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Speaker 1: conglomerates effectively controlling the entire thing. Is that the entire explanation. No,

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Speaker 1: but it is a significant cause. And politically, yeah, the

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Speaker 1: Biden ped that they put on a statement, big deal,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, no one even paid attention to it.

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Speaker 1: They should wage war. They should welcome the hatred of

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Speaker 1: these corporations. They should go to war with these companies

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Speaker 1: that are jacking up prices unnecessarily making life so difficult,

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Speaker 1: difficult for Americans. And you know, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: power in the presidential bully pulpit. We saw Trump occasionally

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Speaker 1: every once in a while, every once in a while

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Speaker 1: would demonstrate that you can shame these companies sometimes into

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Speaker 1: doing a little bit better than what they're doing. And

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Speaker 1: again from you know, I think it would work. But

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Speaker 1: also politically, it would give Americans an understanding of what's

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Speaker 1: going on, a sense that the Biden administration actually cared

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Speaker 1: about it and we're fighting for them and we're in

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Speaker 1: touch with what they're now routinely telling polsters is the

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Speaker 1: biggest issue in there. No, I think you're right, But

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Speaker 1: the problem is Biden has no credibility with the American

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Speaker 1: people right now. He has zero trust, and I mean

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Speaker 1: in a way like why should they they? He promised

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Speaker 1: something would go back to normal. Now, Look, you're putting

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Speaker 1: out blog posts. That's great. You're also the president. You know,

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Speaker 1: you could do a lot more if you want to.

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Speaker 1: Until you do, put up or shut up, because increasingly

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Speaker 1: you're just losing as much ground as you possibly. It's

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Speaker 1: like a contest to see how unpopular he could be.

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Speaker 1: It's honestly pathetic, it really is to see how quickly

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Speaker 1: that their administration devolved into a total and complete disaster.

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Speaker 1: And I really think they have nobody but themselves blamed.

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Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Agree, all right, Okay, guys, we've been

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Speaker 1: tracking this deadly system of storms that went across the

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Speaker 1: Midwest and the South. They're hitting Kentucky particularly hard, an

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Speaker 1: area of western Kentucky that I've visited, lots of wonderful

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Speaker 1: people there. These are very deeply rooted communities, and the

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Speaker 1: loss there is just you can't wrap your head around it.

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Speaker 1: You guys probably know this deadly tornado outbreak, it went

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Speaker 1: across five states, has left at least over one hundred

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Speaker 1: people dead. We've had casualties in every state impacted by

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Speaker 1: the storm. Six people in Illinois, four in Tennessee, to

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Speaker 1: in Arkansas, two in Missouri. But the bulk of the

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Speaker 1: devastating losses have come in that region of western Kentucky.

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Speaker 1: We have a little bit of video that we can

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Speaker 1: show you of what at least one of the tornadoes

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Speaker 1: looked like. Let's go ahead and put that up. This one.

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Speaker 1: This was a Kentucky resident who caught this imaging. You

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Speaker 1: can see the lightning terrifying and because they came at night,

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Speaker 1: of course, I mean, you couldn't see what was happening

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Speaker 1: before these tornadoes were right on top of people. Kentucky

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Speaker 1: Governor Andy Wassheer estimates more than one hundred could be

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Speaker 1: dead after those horrific storms. Let's go ahead and put

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Speaker 1: the next VEO up there on the screen. So this

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Speaker 1: is Mayfield, Kentucky again, a deeply rooted community, one where

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Speaker 1: you know people, everybody knows each other, people have been

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Speaker 1: there for generations, called Mayfield, Kentucky home and it is

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Speaker 1: just absolutely decimated. Lives lost. The bulk of the lives

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Speaker 1: lost appear to have been from a candle factory here

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Speaker 1: in Mayfield downtown, destroyed. Churches that have been there for

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Speaker 1: years and years, where people have you know, celebrated and

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Speaker 1: mourned and experienced significant milestones, those are all absolutely destroyed.

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Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and throw that tear sheet up on

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Speaker 1: the screen from the Washington Post about that candle factory

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Speaker 1: which was in Mayfield. Forty were rescued from this candle

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Speaker 1: factory which collapsed in the tornado, and forty are feared

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Speaker 1: dead roughly, so tremendous loss of life here. This was

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Speaker 1: a significant employment center for the community. And in addition

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Speaker 1: to this candle factory, you also had an Amazon distribution

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Speaker 1: center that partially collapsed, killing six people there. So the

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Speaker 1: people who were most at risk at this were the

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Speaker 1: workers who were you toiling through the night, you know,

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Speaker 1: with Christmas orders coming in and peak retail system. One

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Speaker 1: of the things that came to light here as well

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Speaker 1: is the fact that at this Amazon warehouse they had

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Speaker 1: banned workers and this is apparently standard policy that had

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Speaker 1: been pushed aside during COVID but has now been re implemented.

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Speaker 1: They banned workers from having phones with them. So what

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Speaker 1: does that mean when you have tornadoes, fast moving tornadoes

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Speaker 1: barreling down on you, and everybody else in your community

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Speaker 1: is getting repeated alerts and can track where the systems

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Speaker 1: are and understand the implications for themselves and their family

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Speaker 1: and their loved ones. Whatever. The Amazon workers were totally

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Speaker 1: in the dark. This piece from Blueberg quotes a worker

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Speaker 1: who says, I don't trust them being Amazon with my safety.

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Speaker 1: To be quite frank, if there's severe weather on the way,

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Speaker 1: I think I should be able to make my own

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Speaker 1: decision about safety. A lot of people have pointed out

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Speaker 1: this isn't the first time that Amazon workers have been

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Speaker 1: exposed to dangerous weather conditions. They were expected to report

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Speaker 1: to work during deadly flooding from Ida, when there was

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Speaker 1: that horrific heat wave in the Pacific Northwest. They were

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Speaker 1: still expected to come to work. They handed out cooling

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Speaker 1: scarves and still some workers, I mean the heat was insane, intense,

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Speaker 1: and still some workers had to leave and seek care

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Speaker 1: because of those extreme temperatures. So just absolute devastation there

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Speaker 1: a couple things on. Very unusual to have this kind

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Speaker 1: of tornado outbreak in December normally. So what causes tornadoes

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Speaker 1: is that that change in extreme change in temperatures, right,

430
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: it's like a pressure thing. Normally you see that in

431
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 1: the spring. And so most tornado reports you're talking about March, April, May,

432
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 1: December is actually typically the lowest month in terms of

433
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 1: reported tornadoes. This swath of the country where these tornadoes

434
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 1: struck also is not exactly where the traditional tornado alley

435
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,679
Speaker 1: is concerned. And so what a lot of scientists are

436
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 1: saying here is that climate change here's to be number

437
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: one making tornadoes stronger and more frequent, but number two

438
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 1: actually shifting where tornado alley is and putting it squarely

439
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 1: along this corridor that has higher levels of population contributing

440
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,199
Speaker 1: to higher levels of death and destruction. So that's what

441
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: we know at this point. And again the images are

442
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 1: absolutely devastating. Our heart's break for those who have lost

443
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 1: loved ones and those who've lost their homes, their lives,

444
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 1: their history, their memories in these communities, were really thinking

445
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 1: about all of you. No, absolutely. I think one thing

446
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 1: we really do have to highlight is worker safety. I mean,

447
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 1: something that they're pointing out is that because Amazon uses

448
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: so many independent contractors, they didn't even know a lot

449
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: of the people who were inside of the warehouse. So

450
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:46,919
Speaker 1: of the one hundred and ninety people who worked at

451
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: the Edwardsville delivery center, only seven were full time Amazon employees,

452
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 1: and part of the issue is that contractors lets the

453
00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 1: company avoid liability for accidents in other risks. Officials said

454
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: the fact that so many of the workers were temporary

455
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: made it difficult to account for those who could be

456
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: missing in the wake of the tornado, complicating initial rescue efforts,

457
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 1: and an Amazon spokesman said that they had eleven minutes

458
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 1: warning because there was a tornado effect a tornado warning

459
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: at eight oh six, but the Amazon roof collapse came

460
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: at eight twenty seven, so the facility had one tornado shelter,

461
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: but some employees said that they were literally hiding in

462
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: the bathrooms that they were, you know, terrified. The building

463
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: across the street actually ended up collapsing. And look, I

464
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 1: mean a lot of what it points to is that

465
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: the company, through its cavalier use in the way that

466
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: it treats its people, makes it so that in an

467
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 1: event of a disaster, they have no idea who's even

468
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: side of the building. They had no clue only according

469
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 1: to the reporters, you said, only seven people that worked

470
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: there at this distribution center were even Amazon employees. So

471
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: when authorities were saying, okay, well who was on site?

472
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 1: Who could be missing? They have no idea. I don't know,

473
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: no idea who may be alive or dead or missing

474
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: or injured, no clue. And it does expose the over reliance.

475
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 1: I mean, they're just exploiting these loopholes to label people who,

476
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 1: for all intents and purposes, are their employees. You see

477
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 1: this with Uber and Lyft and all these other companies

478
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: that do the same thing. Their driver workforce, which is

479
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: what was predominantly at this delivery center, is largely quote

480
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 1: unquote independent contractors, even though again for all intents and purposes,

481
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: they work for Amazon. It's all the way to try

482
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,880
Speaker 1: to skirt responsibility and you can see the devastating consequences

483
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 1: in a situation like this. Yeah, and Jeff Bezos was

484
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: very late in actually order to say anything celebrating launch

485
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 1: at Blue Origin and then eventually tweeted out his support,

486
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: being like, we're horrified by the tragedy and all of that.

487
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 1: Second richest man in the world two hundred and eleven

488
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 1: billion dollars. I'm always just struck at how much they

489
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: just don't care. In many of these cases, it's like,

490
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: these people literally built your company, you know, they pad

491
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: your net worth and all that. The least you could

492
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: probably do is use one of your fancy planes or

493
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: rockets and like go down there and do something about it,

494
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 1: or you know, pay for whatever in order to take

495
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: care of these people. Shelter something bucket for it. Yeah,

496
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: I mean nothing. It would cost the absolutely nothing, but

497
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: you know they don't. I don't care. We're celebrating his launch.

498
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 1: In terms of the presidential response, Biden is planning to

499
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 1: visit once that would be useful, wanting to give time

500
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: for search and recovery efforts to continue again. Andy Basheer,

501
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 1: who's the governor of Kentucky, has said he fully expects

502
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: the death count to continue to go up and to

503
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,360
Speaker 1: rise over a hundred, because just the level of destruction

504
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 1: is so complete in some of these areas that you know,

505
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: it's it's just wild. And all the people I know

506
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: who live in that area are safe, but they have

507
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: told me about you know, the church where they got

508
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: wetting married is decimated, the downtown that they grew up in,

509
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: their their family store, their family homes, all of those things.

510
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: So such a hard thing as a community to be able.

511
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: You don't even know where to get to rebuild when

512
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: everything has just been completely obliterated. So we'll continue to

513
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 1: track it and certainly thinking about all of you guys

514
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: out there in western Kentucky and all the other states

515
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: that were affected. Absolutely let's move on COVID. I want

516
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 1: to try and give you guys just complete an update

517
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: as possible here on Omicron. We were looking at some

518
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: of the data. It's a bit squirrely, so we did

519
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: see a drop in cases in South Africa, but there's

520
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 1: also over the weekend there's also a report around data

521
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: processing there in terms of how amicron is working in

522
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: that country. Britain had its very first known death, the

523
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: first global death actually of omicron, which you know, if anything,

524
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: that's actually a plus the first one. And we've known

525
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: about the virus or the new variant for almost two weeks.

526
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: But it is leading to a lot of questions around boosters,

527
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: around how we deal with this as society, given the

528
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: fact that from what we currently know, yes, omicron is

529
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: much more likely to lead to a breakthrough case whenever

530
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: you're vaccinated. I'm talking specifically about two doses of the

531
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: normal vaccine, but the case you know seemed to be

532
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:18,239
Speaker 1: generally so far milder and less severe in terms of

533
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: how they manifest. Some patients take that with a grain

534
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: of salt. In the United States, we're much more obese

535
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: and old than a lot of the general population you know,

536
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: in the world worldwide, and so if it would be

537
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: worse anywhere, it would probably be here. Still hasn't manifested yet,

538
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: We don't know yet. Again, though, it's leading to a

539
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: huge discussion around booster shots, because let's put this on

540
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: the screen. The Pfizer CEO has now come out and

541
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: said that a fourth vaccine, a fourth vaccine shot may

542
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: eventually be needed. That want to be clear in about

543
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: how they're saying it and describing it now. He says, quote,

544
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: I think we will need the fourth dose, pointing to

545
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: the previous timeline of twelve months, but he says, quote

546
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: with a we need to wait and see because we

547
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,239
Speaker 1: have very little information. We may need it faster. And

548
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: I think once again that this is playing into crystal

549
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: the fact that there is not enough critical discussion around

550
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: these boosters and the obvious profit incentive that the Pfizer

551
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: CEO has to say, oh, yeah, yeah, we're going to

552
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: need a fourth shot. I mean, it was not very

553
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: long ago that you were considered a conspiracy theorist to

554
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: say that, you know, what, are you going to get

555
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: your fourth job or your fifth jab or something, and

556
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: people were like, you're crazy. All he needs to well,

557
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: I mean you have the CEO of a company already

558
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: saying and Israel already authorizing that shot. Some people, I

559
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: know you've gotten a booster shot. Others have as well.

560
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,959
Speaker 1: The data out there at a very small study out

561
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: of Israel showing that it seems to hold up. So

562
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: you don't take that into account in terms of making

563
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: your own decisions. But it just comes down to at

564
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: what point is this going to become government policy? Because

565
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: we've seen also the vaccine mandate out of New York City.

566
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: We're all private employees there and all five borrows are

567
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: going to be required to be vaccinated. We don't know

568
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: yet if new mayor Adams is going to put that

569
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: policy actually into effect, but for right now it's on

570
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: the books and it seems to be the case. Will

571
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: they try to change the new standard of fully vaccinated

572
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: to three or four shots? I mean that could impact

573
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: the way that if you're going to dine in this

574
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: state of California, in New York, perhaps even air travel,

575
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: not necessarily to get on the plane, but to get

576
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: off the plane. In Europe, South America and elsewhere where

577
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: they require vaccination. I just think that you know, feeding

578
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: into this a look, sure it probably contributes to vaccine hesitancy,

579
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: but it just leads to the point of like, when

580
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: is enough? What is the level? I mean, which it's okay,

581
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: I'm not even like going to say full stop that

582
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: there won't be a time when it's needed and when

583
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: it's important and when we should encourage, you know, people

584
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: to go out and get another shot. But their own

585
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: data that they just released shows that a third dose

586
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: led to similar levels of antibodies against omicron as two

587
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: doses had against the original virus, which led to strong protection.

588
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: So of course they get out ahead of their skis

589
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: because they see like in the cartoons where their eyes

590
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: become dollar signs, like that's them right now, and like

591
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: literally them and maderna same thing coming out and making

592
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: similar like, ah, this is the CNBC dude was like, oh,

593
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: this is like an annuity for you. This is great,

594
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: and people can get a shot every year, and you

595
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: can see the stock price is soaring. I mean, it's

596
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: just absolutely grotesque. We shouldn't be listening to what people

597
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: with a direct financial interest in additional shots. Their opinion

598
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: to me is worse than irrelevant. Yeah, show me the data,

599
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: show me the independent studies, not the industry funded ones,

600
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: and let's make an intelligent decision from there, because you're

601
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: right when you know, it's very easy to conflate the

602
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: financial incentive they have to you know, let's have a

603
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: third shot, let's have a four, let's have a fish out,

604
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: let's have a new formulation that people have to get

605
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: every year. It's very easy to use that clear financial

606
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: incentive they have to then fuel conspiracy theories about the vaccines,

607
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: which are not true, right, So that's the issue here.

608
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: You know. I actually listened to Brianna had a podcast

609
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: where she had Dave Wiglan to talk about sort of

610
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: the politics of COVID and that sort of stuff, and

611
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: she had doctor Abdulah Sayad on who we had on

612
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: the show recently as well, and he was saying the

613
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,959
Speaker 1: line he wanted to draw was you should separate out,

614
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: separate out their sort of business incentives from the science

615
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: that these drug companies do, and saying like, you can

616
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: trust the science, but you can't trust the business incentives.

617
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: And I wish it were that clean and simple, yeah,

618
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 1: because when you look at I mean, we've they've been

619
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 1: caught a couple times by the FDA trying to juice

620
00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: their numbers. Johnson and Johnson vaccine, their booster shot. They

621
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: you know, used some techniques that the FDA found sort

622
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: of suspect to show a higher response than what actually

623
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 1: was there. The MRK pill is a perfect example. Or

624
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: you can think back to things like you know, the

625
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 1: opoid crisis, which part a key part of how that

626
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 1: was fueled was because the maker of oxy was able

627
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 1: for regulatory capture to get this line inserted into their

628
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: disclosure that said, it's believed to be non habit forming.

629
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: Anyone looking at that would think that was based on

630
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: science because it's government approved language on you know, on medication,

631
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: but in reality, there was no good science to back

632
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 1: that up. So this just gets to the core principle

633
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: that when you have financial incentives at the center of

634
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,760
Speaker 1: your healthcare system, it just at least to terrible results.

635
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 1: And the reality is that two shots. Yes, there are

636
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: a lot of breakthrough infections, actually fairly significant amount of

637
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: breakthrough infections, especially over time that level of immunity does wane,

638
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: but they continue to be very effective protecting against severe

639
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: hospitalization and death. If you are someone who is at

640
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: higher risk, especially if you're elderly, it seems like a

641
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: booster shot makes a lot of sense if you're anybody

642
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: else and you just don't want to get COVID and

643
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: you want to be you know, forward thinking about helping

644
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: to stop the spread so that you don't have more

645
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: of these variants germinating, than it makes sense for you

646
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 1: to get the booster shot as well. But I don't

647
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 1: know why we're listening to these people who have a

648
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: direct financial incentive in pushing things in a certain direction.

649
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: I completely agree. And you know, this is the problem

650
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 1: is there's no real rational discussion. And I honestly have

651
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,359
Speaker 1: lost so much faith in the CDC and in the

652
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: FDA in the discussion around all of this, because there's

653
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: no consideration of natural immunity whenever they discuss the need

654
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: for a booster or not. I can only speak from

655
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 1: an I mean, this is the only data we have

656
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: in terms of people I know who've had COVID and

657
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,280
Speaker 1: who did get the booster shot did have a severe reaction.

658
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that they got you know, whatever mildcard

659
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: ititist or whatever, but there are a sick like four

660
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: or five days. I mean, that's a long time. And

661
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 1: the question was is like do they even need it

662
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: in the first place in terms of warding off omicron

663
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: or more. And in terms of the data that we have,

664
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: at least in the countries that do recognize natural community,

665
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: it is quite robust, especially if you combine it with

666
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 1: vaccine immunity. Of course, you know, it's nice in my

667
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 1: case because that's what I have. But what it comes

668
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: down to is that whenever we're pushing things both financially

669
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,439
Speaker 1: and then seemingly ideologically, it just leads to a total

670
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: lack of trust and faith within the system. And it's

671
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 1: like you said, look, you know, this all continues to

672
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 1: embrace a general COVID zero mindset, which is that boosters

673
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: and all that is probably going to stay for the

674
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: immunal compromise and the elderly, and especially if you're obese,

675
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: like if you are, you know, if you're by BMI

676
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: or whatever is obese, you have comorbidities, diabetes, immunal compromise,

677
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,760
Speaker 1: all those things, probably you probably should get a booster

678
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: every year in order to make sure because those variants

679
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:58,760
Speaker 1: are just going to keep on coming. COVID is always

680
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 1: going to be circulating and will always be a way

681
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: higher risk to you than it is to the general population.

682
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 1: For the general population, if you have two doses of

683
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,439
Speaker 1: the vaccine even now currently you know, six seven, eight

684
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: months or whatever out, yes, your ability in order to

685
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: prevent breakthrough infection, it's diminished quite significantly. We don't actually

686
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 1: know what the number is on that. And if you

687
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: haven't had COVID yet, yeah, you know, maybe if you

688
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: really don't want to get a booster, all of that

689
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be much of a problem. If you

690
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: had some mix of the natural immunity national community with

691
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: the shot or vice versa and all of that, then

692
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: it's a little bit up in the air. And it

693
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: also also depends on your general physical health, on your

694
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: condition and all of that. The lack of the nuance

695
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,320
Speaker 1: in the policy, and that's where you know, I'm really scared,

696
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: is where this all comes into play. Because we were

697
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 1: talking hopefully we'll cover it, you know, in the future

698
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: on the show. We still have a situation where kids

699
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: are reading outside like the in the cold, you know,

700
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: I mean, this is totally nuts, and it's like you

701
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:56,800
Speaker 1: see this mentality of COVID zero and completely unscientific measures

702
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: that get embraced in public het policy and pushed for

703
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 1: who knows how long. I mean, it's been twenty one months,

704
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: okay since COVID has come. I mean it's been a

705
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: long time. And there ain't that much none necessarily of

706
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: a change in the way that this is manifesting itself.

707
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: And the declient of trust in our institutions and especially

708
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: combining here with the people who have major profit centers

709
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: of pushes forever, it's very detrimental to public health. Look,

710
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 1: it's not an accident, that we have a for profit

711
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: healthcare system here that a lot of people are disconnected

712
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: from and feel, you know, that they can't trust, oftentimes

713
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: for good reason, and that we have higher rates of

714
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,760
Speaker 1: vaccine hesitancy here than other developed countries. Yeah, those two things,

715
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: I mean, there's direct correlation there. And as you see,

716
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 1: like you know, people who are more skeptical of government,

717
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 1: who have oftentimes good reasons both in their own lives

718
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: and historically to be skeptical of the healthcare system have

719
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 1: been the most resistant. So again that that profit motive

720
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,879
Speaker 1: at the center of our healthcare system, whether it's hospitals

721
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 1: or pharmaceutical companies or health insurers, it destroys trust and

722
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 1: it leads to worse public health outcomes overall, which we

723
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: can see not just with vaccine hesitancy but with our

724
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: public health data at large. I mean, that's part of

725
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: why we are less healthy and have more chronic conditions

726
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: and more obesity and all of those things. So again,

727
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: I really don't care to hear from the Pfizer CEO

728
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: about how many shots we may need and when I'm

729
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 1: going to wait to see some data that was not

730
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: not provided for by Pfizer or just I mean at

731
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: this point it actually goes against the Pfiser data and

732
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 1: it's just like the CEO wish casting even more millions

733
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: for himself. So there you go, big moves in terms

734
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: of labor. This is exciting, all right. So in the

735
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 1: same day that Donziger was released to home confinement from prison,

736
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 1: Starbucks got their first US union at a store in Buffalo.

737
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,720
Speaker 1: It was a big day for those sorts of things.

738
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 1: So in a first Starbucks workers agree to a union

739
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: in Buffalo, New York. Now we've been covering the stories,

740
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: so you guys probably know some of the details here.

741
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 1: But there were three Starbucks stores that voted, and the

742
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: tallies came out on Thursday, and so in this particular one,

743
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: the Elmwood Avenue location, they voted nineteen to eight in

744
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: favor of a union. A second store rejected the union

745
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 1: in a vote of twelve to eight, but the union

746
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 1: said it might challenge that result because it was not

747
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: confident all the eligible votes have been counted, and the

748
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: results of a third store could not be determined because

749
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 1: both sides challenged seven separate votes. My understanding is that

750
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 1: third store it looked like they voted to unionize, but

751
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: that now is being challenged again by both sides. In addition,

752
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:48,760
Speaker 1: there are three other stores in Buffalo and a store

753
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: in Mesa, Arizona, that have filed petitions with the Labor

754
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 1: Board for their own union elections, seemingly inspired by this

755
00:40:55,960 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: movement in Buffalo. And what's interesting, so this is the

756
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:07,280
Speaker 1: first US store to unionize for Starbucks. They threw everything

757
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 1: literally they could add this effort to try to stop

758
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: these workers from voting to unionize. They part of their

759
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 1: effort was to peel to the NLRB and try to

760
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 1: get all of the workers in Buffalo who worked at

761
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: any Starbucks to participate in the election. The NLRB said

762
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 1: no to That's why it's important to have good people

763
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,240
Speaker 1: on the NLARB, the National Labor Relations Board. They also

764
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 1: tried to postpone the election. This is an important tactic,

765
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: especially in the service industry where turnover is very high.

766
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:41,439
Speaker 1: The NLRB also shot that idea down. But even beyond that,

767
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: I mean they brought in executives to these stores to

768
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: coerce and spy on employees. They flooded these stores with

769
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 1: new workers so that they'd have to, you know, bring

770
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: them into the process. Of organizing and educate them and

771
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:58,359
Speaker 1: get them on board as well. They actually closed one

772
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 1: store and turned it into a training location. I mean

773
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 1: they just did absolutely everything. Brought in Howard Schultz to

774
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,800
Speaker 1: do some big special anti union event that they closed

775
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 1: all the Starbucks stores, to invite there to have their

776
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: workers come and listen to him. They did these private

777
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 1: listening sessions. I mean, they really went all out to

778
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,760
Speaker 1: stop this result. And yet still we have at least

779
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: one store, the one Avenue location that voted pretty decisively

780
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: here to unionize. It's a huge deal, honestly, Sager. Oh

781
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,240
Speaker 1: it's massive. I mean, you know this is the first store.

782
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: They fought everything they possibly could in order to make

783
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: this happen. I mean, look, it is just one store,

784
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: but all it takes in many of these cases is

785
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 1: just a single one in order to spawn more people

786
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,280
Speaker 1: who want to try and do this store after store,

787
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: and that's why the company fought it with every single

788
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,760
Speaker 1: thing that they had. It really does remain to be seen.

789
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: It also could make it so that perhaps there are

790
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: less unionization efforts, but simply in order to ward them off,

791
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 1: they may have to raise crisis prices, sorry, wages all

792
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: across the board, they may have to listen to a

793
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 1: lot more of the way that the employees are talking,

794
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: and in terms of employees coming to them and with

795
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 1: their concerns, and you know, in terms of saying, oh, well,

796
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: we need better benefits here, we need in order to

797
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: have our hours in a certain way. So having all

798
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 1: this just is a big warning shot across the bout

799
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,360
Speaker 1: at Starbucks management. That's why they treated it so seriously.

800
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 1: And also this makes a big spotlight on potential anti

801
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 1: unionization efforts that they're going to try and continue. In

802
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 1: the past, everything they did actually didn't work In many ways,

803
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 1: it hardened people in terms of forming the union. So

804
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 1: if they try in the future to try and close

805
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 1: the stores down, bring in Howard Schultz, stack it with

806
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 1: all these fake employees in order to try and rig

807
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 1: the vote counts and more, you're still going to see

808
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: a lot of public awareness around what they tried and

809
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: how it ultimately failed. So it's a big, big deal,

810
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 1: a symbolic victory obviously, not you know, the total one.

811
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:54,439
Speaker 1: But I think this is the beginning of the war

812
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 1: more than anything. Yeah, and listen, Buffalo has a history

813
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 1: of union org and I and that labor history matters

814
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: a lot. Irami was saying to me, he doesn't think

815
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: it's an accident that you had India Walton doing as

816
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: well as she did in Buffalo and laying some of

817
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: the groundwork that those things, you know, they do build

818
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: on each other. So you see a little bit of

819
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 1: movement in Buffalo. But I would love to know how

820
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 1: much Starbucks fed to try to fight it. I mean

821
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,320
Speaker 1: it has to be millions to fly in all those executives,

822
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: to to rent the hotel, to have the big party.

823
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: I mean they were million They were willing to throw

824
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 1: so much money at shutting down even just this one

825
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 1: store unionizing. It shows you what a threat they think

826
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 1: it is. And I think that's really significant. And as

827
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 1: I mentioned, you already have following on the heels of this,

828
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 1: additional stores filing with the NLRB to have their own

829
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: union elections. So it could very well set off a

830
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: bit of a domino effect. And that's a big deal

831
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: because it's not just you know, Starbucks is an iconic brand.

832
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 1: Of course, organizing in the service sector like this is

833
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: so tremendously difficult. I mean it's you have high employee turnover,

834
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 1: the way that the laws are written right now. You know,

835
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: it's every single individual store has to unionize one by one,

836
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: and so it just makes it really extraordinarily difficult. But

837
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: I also want to highlight because our laws on unions

838
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 1: are so crappy and because the proact is, you know,

839
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: nowhere in sight. This is the beginning of the battle

840
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 1: for these workers, not the end, yes, exactly, because now

841
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: what can happen is Starbucks can stonewall them. First of all,

842
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: they can file all kinds of appeals. I'm sure they'll

843
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,959
Speaker 1: do that stuff, But they can stonewall them in terms

844
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: of getting a contract. They can pretend to negotiate in

845
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: good faith and just continue to push off and push

846
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 1: off and push off. Even in Canada, there was a

847
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 1: Starbucks in Victoria that voted to unionize in August of

848
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,879
Speaker 1: twenty twenty. It took a full year for them to

849
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: reach a collective bargaining agreement in I don't know the

850
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 1: numbers in Canada, and that is the norm. It is

851
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 1: a majority of new unions that a year later still

852
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: don't have a collective bargaining a contract with their employer.

853
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,320
Speaker 1: So this is the beginning of the fight. And because

854
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 1: we don't have those proact provisions in place, it means

855
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: that can continue indefinitely. What we need is a closet

856
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 1: in there that after a certain amount of time, it

857
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: goes to mandatatory arbitration, so that they're forced to agree

858
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: to some kind of contract, because as it is now,

859
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 1: they can just push it off forever. They are even

860
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: more aggressive tactics that companies have used. Dollar General had

861
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: a store that voted to unionize, and they fought it,

862
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 1: and they went through appeals process, and when it looked

863
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: like they were going to lose, what do they do?

864
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: They closed the store down. They closed the store. Now

865
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 1: that should be technically illegal if it's directly in response

866
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: to a union drive, but you know, they can just

867
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 1: come up with some fig leaf of an argument of

868
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,399
Speaker 1: why it wasn't about the union, it was about some

869
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:06,879
Speaker 1: other profitability concern or whatever, and they close the store

870
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 1: and that's that. So there's still a long way to

871
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:16,240
Speaker 1: go before this significant, really incredible, very exciting victory turns

872
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,800
Speaker 1: into real gains for these workers. But this is certainly

873
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 1: a big, big step forward, absolutely, And the next story

874
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:24,360
Speaker 1: that we wanted to bring in the labor movement actually

875
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: highlights how even when you have a union, the deck

876
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 1: is still stacked in favor of the employer. We've been

877
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 1: following the strike at Kellogg's. It fourteen hundred striking workers there. Kellogg's,

878
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: their big concern has been those workers big concern has

879
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 1: been the two tier wage and benefit structure, so something

880
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: we've seen repeated across a lot of the strikes that

881
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: we covered, including the John Dear strike, and so Kellex

882
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 1: had offered them a contract that the workers overwhelmingly voted

883
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 1: down that kept that two tier wage system, wage and

884
00:47:56,320 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 1: benefit system in place. And so Kellogg's has now announced

885
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: that they are going to replace all of those striking

886
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: workers permanently, again something that should be illegal but is not,

887
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 1: and it would be illegal if the pro Act were

888
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: to pass, but it's not. So after a bit of

889
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 1: time passed, Biden did decide to weigh in on this one,

890
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 1: which you know, I plod him for doing, but also

891
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:24,319
Speaker 1: there's a lot more he could do. Let's go ahead

892
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 1: and throw this up on the screen. Biden says he's

893
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 1: deeply troubled by Kellogg's move to permanently replace striking workers.

894
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: That's all well and good, but what are you going

895
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 1: to do about it? I mean, he's just he's completely

896
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: backed down on actually changing the law with regards to

897
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 1: the pro Act. He's sort of given up on that fight.

898
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 1: There are a lot of people who said, oh, this

899
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: is unprecedented for a president away in like this. It's

900
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 1: actually not. Jonah Ferman and others online pointed out that

901
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 1: in July ninety four, President Clinton said some very similar

902
00:48:55,680 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 1: stuff about Caterpillar Inc. And their striking auto workers, that

903
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 1: they should settle their bitter dispute, and that this is

904
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: poisonous to the labor movement. All that, and because he

905
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 1: also didn't actually do anything. Caterpillar just continued doing what

906
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 1: they wanted to do and it didn't end well for

907
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 1: the workers. I remember reading about that it was a big,

908
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: big moment actually and yeah, strikes and how it eventually

909
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:19,799
Speaker 1: all played out. Guess where Caterpillar makes all of its

910
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 1: stuff now they'll never guess. This is like you said, yeah,

911
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: it's good whenever you say stuff like deeply troubled. But

912
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:28,879
Speaker 1: I saw this. It's just like with Trump. Trump went

913
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 1: to the carrier plant. It was a huge thing. They

914
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 1: said they were going to stay, and then two years

915
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 1: later they ended up offshoring anyway, right or outsourcing the jobs.

916
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,399
Speaker 1: It was you know, Fox Con, it was the same thing.

917
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 1: There's so many of these different examples. These presidents they

918
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,320
Speaker 1: pay lip service. They're like, well, I'm on the side

919
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 1: of these guys, and then you know, a couple of

920
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 1: years later when it ends up happening. So Kellogg is

921
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 1: probably going to get away with this, which is the

922
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:53,319
Speaker 1: really pathetic and terrible part. Fourteen hundred workers right now

923
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 1: set to be replaced after they rejected the contract. They

924
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 1: think that they can weather the storm, and the sad

925
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,439
Speaker 1: part is is they probably can. Most people aren't paying

926
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: attention that I think. I remember whenever we were talking

927
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: to Kellogg worker, they had what record salesfit Their profits

928
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: are high, like very demand people during the exactly people

929
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 1: you know, packed on a little bit me in terms

930
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:19,800
Speaker 1: of the pandemic fifteen and part of that was cereal

931
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,319
Speaker 1: for many people. So they're doing okay. They think they

932
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 1: can get away with this. The president, Yeah he put

933
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 1: out a statement, but look, I used to work in

934
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,800
Speaker 1: White House Press Corps. President's put out like fifteen statements

935
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 1: a day. Yes, they probably will note this, but overall,

936
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 1: pr is it really going to make a difference. I

937
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 1: don't think so Crystal, Yeah, I mean he shows he's

938
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: not willing to actually do the things that would be

939
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 1: with him. Right exactly. It's powers we saw us for Trump.

940
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 1: You know, he talked, you talk a big game. Great.

941
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:46,320
Speaker 1: You know. Oh, Harley Davidson. I remember that one is Harley.

942
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 1: You can't do anything. Tweets about it. They didn't care.

943
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 1: You know why because if you don't force them to

944
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: do anything, they're just going to take the hit. And

945
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,359
Speaker 1: there's most of you will still probably buy Harley, which

946
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 1: is made in China. Yeah, that's just how it is.

947
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:59,359
Speaker 1: The big thing. The one thing workers do have going

948
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 1: for them doesn't have anything to do with Joe Biden,

949
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 1: has to do with the fact that it may be

950
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 1: difficult right now to replace fourteen hundred people across these plants,

951
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 1: especially without you know, lifting the wages and making the

952
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: deal more attractive. So we'll see the success that they

953
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 1: have filling in. And also listen, you're starting from scratch.

954
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,359
Speaker 1: I mean you're talking about a skilled workforce that knew

955
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 1: what they were doing, and now you're going to start

956
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:27,959
Speaker 1: from scratch with people who have never done this job,

957
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,359
Speaker 1: never done this work. Having to train everybody up. So

958
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 1: even if you find enough people like it takes time

959
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 1: to get this, get this all cranking. And we saw

960
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 1: what happened with John Deere when they tried to bring

961
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,360
Speaker 1: in a workforce that had no idea what they were doing,

962
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 1: and it was it was terrible for them and dangerous

963
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:49,720
Speaker 1: for the workers involved. So I think, you know, KELLYX

964
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: is likely to face some very similar challenges here trying

965
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 1: to just writ large replace fourteen hundred striking workers, you know,

966
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 1: starting from scratch. I think you're right. Okay, fun segment.

967
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 1: Chris Wallace shocked us all he's leaving Fox News. Here

968
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:07,439
Speaker 1: was his announcement yesterday at the end of the show.

969
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen. After eighteen years, this is my

970
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 1: final Fox News Sunday. It is the last time, and

971
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 1: I say this with real sadness, we will meet like this.

972
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 1: Eighteen years ago, the bosses here at Fox promised me

973
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 1: they would never interfere with a guest I booked or

974
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 1: a question I asked, and they kept that promise. I

975
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 1: have been free to report, to the best of my ability,

976
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 1: to cover the stories I think are important to hold

977
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:36,720
Speaker 1: our country's leaders to account. It's been a great ride.

978
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 1: We've covered five presidential elections, interviewed every president since George HW.

979
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 1: Bush traveled the world, sitting down with Francis Emmanuel Matcron

980
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 1: and Russia's Vladimir Putin. And I've gotten to spend Sunday

981
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,760
Speaker 1: mornings with you. It may sound corny, but I feel

982
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:59,359
Speaker 1: we've built a community here. There's a lot you can

983
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,360
Speaker 1: do on mornings. The fact you've chosen to spend this

984
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:07,280
Speaker 1: hour with us is something I cherish. But after eighteen years,

985
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: I have decided to leave Fox. I want to try

986
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 1: something new, to go beyond politics to all the things

987
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 1: I'm interested in. I'm ready for a new adventure, and

988
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 1: I hope you'll check it out. And so for the

989
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: last time, dear friends, that's it. He's out Crystal. Hours later,

990
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 1: it was announced that that new and exciting adventure is

991
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 1: going to be CNN streaming platform. So let's put that

992
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 1: statement up on the screen. Chris Wallace adjoining CNN to

993
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 1: anchor not on CNN but CNN Plus, the well they

994
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: call much anticipated streaming subscription service. I am thrilled to

995
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 1: join CNN Plus. After decades in broadcasts and cable news,

996
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 1: I'm excited to explore the world of streaming as I

997
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 1: embark on this adventure, I'm delighted, in honored to join

998
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 1: Jeff Zucker and his great team. I can't wait to

999
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 1: get started. Chris Wallace said, they said he'll be hosting

1000
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 1: an interview program for the streaming service. I don't even

1001
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 1: know what the hell to say about this, Crystal, I mean,

1002
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 1: this is what are you doing? This man is seventy

1003
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:09,839
Speaker 1: four years old. He was actually a master of the

1004
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:12,840
Speaker 1: cable medium. I'm not saying I like Chris Wallace or

1005
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:17,320
Speaker 1: I don't like cable news even period. But if cable

1006
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 1: has one purpose, it's interviewing high profile people live to millions.

1007
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 1: That's it. Chris Wallace was actually pretty good at that. Yeah,

1008
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 1: the big interview, you know, the Fox News Sunday, the

1009
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 1: panel of his was always cringe. But what he was

1010
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 1: always pretty good at was having on some sort of

1011
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 1: politician and grilling. And part of the thing is that

1012
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 1: even here, whenever you have a politician and then the

1013
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:40,320
Speaker 1: fact that they know it's not live, it just doesn't

1014
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 1: have the same level of stakes. You know, you've worked

1015
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:44,880
Speaker 1: in live TV. I'm sure it's certainly something where when

1016
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 1: you have that level the veneer and everybody's watching. It's

1017
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 1: just a totally different thing. He was actually pretty good

1018
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:52,319
Speaker 1: at it. Now he's coming out and trying to hang

1019
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 1: out with us here in the streaming world. And I

1020
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:57,359
Speaker 1: got really bad news for CNN for Chris. I'm sure

1021
00:54:57,400 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 1: they threw, you know, gobs of money into him. Does

1022
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:04,759
Speaker 1: anybody want to actually watch a seventy something year old

1023
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 1: dude interview now what he's going to get are only

1024
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 1: b rate politicians? You don't care that much about his

1025
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:12,800
Speaker 1: streaming service? Do you actually want to pay and seek

1026
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 1: that out to watch and stream it? The answer is

1027
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,440
Speaker 1: probably know. I have no idea what he's doing. This

1028
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 1: is I can't imagine going out at CNN plus after

1029
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:25,320
Speaker 1: your dad was a legendary newsman and you anchored probably

1030
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 1: the most watched Sunday show in the whole country. It's

1031
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 1: a total joke. I don't know what to say. Yeah,

1032
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,720
Speaker 1: it's very interesting. I actually have a lot of thoughts

1033
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,920
Speaker 1: about this. I mean, number one, you know, he's the

1034
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 1: type at Fox News of anybody there. He had the

1035
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 1: most mainstream credit Billagy. Oh, yeah, for sure. People kind

1036
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 1: of put him in a category by himself. There's a

1037
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:48,840
Speaker 1: few others that you know, Brett Baer and some others

1038
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:52,319
Speaker 1: who get the news imprimenture. But he was really the

1039
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 1: one who had the most sort of mainstream cred And

1040
00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 1: yet you know, he he played his role at Fox News. Yeah,

1041
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 1: he did write a job. No, No, I don't mean

1042
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 1: that at cable news. I do think I agree with

1043
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:08,840
Speaker 1: you that you know, he was very willing to press

1044
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 1: politicians on both sides that ye, and because he had

1045
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 1: the platform of that Sunday show. You know, these are

1046
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:16,719
Speaker 1: some of the few places where politicians sort of feel

1047
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 1: like they have to go on. So even if you

1048
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 1: give them a tough interview, they still are likely to

1049
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 1: come back. And so he was good at that and

1050
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:26,840
Speaker 1: he was willing to do it. The thing with cable

1051
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 1: news is everyone is scripted into a role, right, and

1052
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 1: this is part of why you don't want to do

1053
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 1: cable news at home or not. I don't want to

1054
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 1: do cable news anymore, although I would say, you know,

1055
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 1: if there was a particular role where I felt like

1056
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 1: I could be useful, and further in conversation, I'm like,

1057
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:40,799
Speaker 1: I don't think either one of us rule down entirely. Oh,

1058
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:42,400
Speaker 1: if I cared a lot about something, I would do it.

1059
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: Of course, but you have to know going in what

1060
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 1: the part is that they want you to play. So,

1061
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 1: for example, as someone who's on the left who went

1062
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:54,800
Speaker 1: on Fox News a lot of times, I always knew

1063
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 1: that my job was either that what they wanted me

1064
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: to do was either to be like even Democrats are

1065
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:05,760
Speaker 1: critical of X, Y or Z thing on the Democratic side,

1066
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 1: or they want you to be like the you know,

1067
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 1: the paid heel, the idiot right to come on and

1068
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 1: either be like stupid or be hated or be you know,

1069
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 1: like just that person for the audience to serve as

1070
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 1: the villain. And for Chris Wallace, part of what his

1071
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 1: role at Fox News was to provide cover for the

1072
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 1: insanity that was happening in so many other parts of

1073
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 1: the network. So they point to Chris Wallace, and they

1074
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 1: point to Brettbaer, and they point to Martha McCallum and

1075
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 1: a few others say oh no, we have a serious

1076
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:43,240
Speaker 1: news operation. And so in a way, they're providing cover

1077
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 1: for some of the more you know, ridiculous and absurd

1078
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:52,960
Speaker 1: and inflammatory parts of the network. And even though I'm

1079
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 1: sure there are a lot of you know, sort of

1080
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 1: mainstream beltweit journalists here who think very highly of Chris Wallace,

1081
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 1: as the reality is you never like push back on

1082
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 1: that that direction of the network. He was fully part,

1083
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 1: fully part of all of that, even as he was

1084
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 1: willing to do a lot of things better and with

1085
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 1: more character in his own program than other corners of

1086
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 1: the network would do. So that's one piece of it.

1087
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 1: The other pieces that the CNN Plus piece, which is

1088
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 1: just like, I would love to know how much they're

1089
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 1: paying him. He's already a multimillionaire. That's what I don't

1090
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 1: get it. I mean, but the part of the whole

1091
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 1: strategy for the CNN Plus thing is such track like

1092
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 1: Casey Hunt and Chris willis, no one is going to

1093
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 1: watch these people. No one is going to pay to

1094
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 1: watch these people. Are you kidding me? Cable news has

1095
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 1: the audiences it does because you have you know, it's

1096
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 1: just it's on in the background. It's ambient background noise.

1097
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 1: Each of these all these anchors are replaceable and totally interchangeable,

1098
00:58:55,040 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 1: and there are very very few personalities who actually could

1099
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 1: draw people in on their own merits. It's not like

1100
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 1: a meritocracy out there on cable news. In fact, oftentimes

1101
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 1: they pick people who are sort of the most problem

1102
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 1: and the most boring not to upset the Apple cart

1103
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 1: so that their sponsors don't get upset. So to think

1104
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 1: you're going to be able to go out into a

1105
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 1: more sort of free market space where you have to

1106
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:28,120
Speaker 1: actually compete for viewer number one. That is not happening.

1107
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 1: It is not opposing, not happening at all. And you know,

1108
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:32,640
Speaker 1: I would say, you know what you describe that phenomenon,

1109
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 1: I think is at all three of these cable networks, right,

1110
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 1: you know, the reality is that CNN is Chris Cuomo,

1111
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 1: it is Brian Stelter, it is the most ridiculous, clownest parts.

1112
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 1: And yes they also have decent journalists. MSNBC is Rachel Maddow,

1113
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 1: it is Chris Haste, it is Russia Gate conspiracy for

1114
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 1: all of the great people that they may have covering,

1115
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 1: it's part of the most disgusting and difficult balance of

1116
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 1: all of these organizations. It is interesting, though, so apparently,

1117
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: and he's been leaking this obviously to the New York

1118
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 1: Times and all of them. He was very, very upset

1119
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 1: about that Tucker Carlson Patriot Purge documentary which we've talked

1120
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 1: here about, in which they specifically explore whether the FEDS

1121
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 1: were involved on January sixth. I do think it is

1122
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 1: telling that that also was the push point for him

1123
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 1: for the dispatch neo cons that we described previously. Apparently

1124
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 1: for Brett. Bayer also went to the head of the

1125
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 1: Fox News Network again, Chris is obviously theirs and what

1126
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:26,439
Speaker 1: the full story is, I don't know. Yeah, I sort

1127
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 1: of don't buy it because just knowing how these contract

1128
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:32,600
Speaker 1: talks go when your contract is going to be up

1129
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 1: as a prominent, you know, cable news host like Chris Wallace,

1130
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 1: is those conversations start a year before your contract act,

1131
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 1: so that you think it's like a convenient heel to

1132
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 1: be like, oh it was, Tucker, I think so. And

1133
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 1: here's the other thing. It is, like, look, I am

1134
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:52,200
Speaker 1: I haven't watched it. I'm sure there are things in

1135
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 1: there that are outlandish and ridiculous and all of those

1136
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 1: things right, just based on what I have seen about

1137
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 1: the documentary. But if that's your problem, like, I'd respect

1138
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 1: it so much more if you went out and said

1139
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 1: something about it, like go and own it and make

1140
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:08,640
Speaker 1: the case it's so cowardly. And this is kind of

1141
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 1: that's kind of the point I was making earlier is like,

1142
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 1: you know, he would make these little like sort of

1143
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 1: subtle digs at at different hosts coverage, or you know,

1144
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 1: would he would plan himself as sort of a figure

1145
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 1: apart from the rest of the muck in the mud

1146
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:27,280
Speaker 1: at Fox News. I just find that I just don't

1147
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 1: find that really honorable. If you have an issue with

1148
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 1: the direction of the coverage, especially now that you're leaving,

1149
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:38,920
Speaker 1: like say something, don't just leak it to Deadline or whoever,

1150
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 1: that that was the real thing you were to The

1151
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:44,240
Speaker 1: New York Times exactly that you were unhappy with. Come

1152
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:46,400
Speaker 1: out and make the case and let's talk about it.

1153
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:50,040
Speaker 1: So that's a part of this that I find, you know,

1154
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 1: even as he exits, he's really unwilling to say what

1155
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 1: he actually thinks about Fox News or cable news at large.

1156
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 1: The other thing that I was thinking about when I was,

1157
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,480
Speaker 1: you know, preparing to cover the stories. Obviously you have

1158
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 1: a lot of churn and turnover on cable news right now.

1159
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:11,080
Speaker 1: Cuomo was out, not because he wanted to be, but anyway,

1160
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:16,160
Speaker 1: he's out. But over at MSNBC, Brian Williams is leaving

1161
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 1: Rachel Maddow for her daily show. She'll stay at MSNBC,

1162
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 1: but it looks like her daily show is going to

1163
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 1: end in the spring. And I really think that even

1164
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 1: cable news hosts are sort of sick of cable news.

1165
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 1: I think that's part of what he's saying here, is like,

1166
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 1: I don't really want to do this game anymore. I'd

1167
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 1: like to interview some other people in a different format.

1168
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 1: And this is because having been a cable news host,

1169
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 1: I can tell you. I mean it is. It's soul sucking,

1170
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 1: and especially now when their ratings are such trash and

1171
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:49,640
Speaker 1: they can't even pretend like they're on top of the world.

1172
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 1: It's I think they find the format also like sort

1173
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 1: of brain deadening and stultifying and all that stuff. So

1174
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 1: that's part of why you see an number of people

1175
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 1: making the move to the exits. I think what always

1176
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:04,360
Speaker 1: made it work for them is that they were famous.

1177
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:06,600
Speaker 1: I mean, they were important, and the real reality of

1178
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 1: it was it's like, you know, in a disaster movie

1179
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:10,880
Speaker 1: or something, and then they would pay like CNN's John

1180
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 1: King to be in the movie and be like the

1181
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:15,720
Speaker 1: joker is taking over something. I mean, would they really

1182
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:18,560
Speaker 1: do that today? You know, I was watching a documentary

1183
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 1: I forget what it's called and they actually played a

1184
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:27,120
Speaker 1: clip of Tim Ferris on his podcast. Oh it was

1185
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:29,000
Speaker 1: The Alpinist, and it was about this guy. He was

1186
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:31,440
Speaker 1: a very young guy who ends up he died, but

1187
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:34,920
Speaker 1: he was a very skilled mountain climber and alpinists and

1188
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 1: free spirit anyway. But I remember watching that and being like, wow,

1189
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 1: they're not playing a clip from cable. They're playing a

1190
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:44,680
Speaker 1: clip from a podcast in which he talks about this guy.

1191
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 1: And I was like, that is like the flipping of power,

1192
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:52,200
Speaker 1: as in, they recognize that that is where the valuable

1193
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:55,440
Speaker 1: conversation and the cultural power is. And so for I

1194
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:58,200
Speaker 1: think for many of these people, it probably drives them

1195
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:00,400
Speaker 1: mad that a lot of the people are having them

1196
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 1: on in the background while they're listening to a Joe

1197
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 1: Rogan or their favorite comedy podcast or my favorite murderer

1198
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:08,520
Speaker 1: or what if Dak Shepherd whatever the hell he's doing,

1199
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 1: or breaking points, I mean, any of these things, and

1200
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 1: for them to lose that it's probably that was what.

1201
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 1: It wasn't just about the money, because let me tell you,

1202
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 1: these people are all miserable, and they all work terrible

1203
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 1: hours as well, so they're all like pretty crazy. So

1204
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:22,600
Speaker 1: that was what made it so worth it for them.

1205
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 1: And I think in Chris's mind, he's jumping into the

1206
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 1: streaming game where the real cultural relevance is. He just

1207
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:31,720
Speaker 1: doesn't realize, Dude, nobody's going to pay. They don't like

1208
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:35,720
Speaker 1: you pay for that. Deluded themselves into thinking that people

1209
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 1: actually care about like them as they have to say,

1210
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:41,440
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, I think you're right about this. This

1211
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:43,720
Speaker 1: is a point that Glenn makes a lot is there's

1212
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 1: a lot of jealousy of people who are independent, who

1213
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 1: are in the podcast field or have YouTube shows or whatever,

1214
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:53,360
Speaker 1: because they sort of feel like, at least the more

1215
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 1: honest and self aware of them feels like, well, I

1216
01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:59,560
Speaker 1: had to like sell out some of my principles to

1217
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:02,439
Speaker 1: be able to play the game here, and now you're

1218
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:05,840
Speaker 1: able to like make a living and do what you

1219
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 1: want and have total freedom and you actually get to

1220
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 1: say what you think about everything and choose which topics

1221
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 1: you're going to cover and have total control and not

1222
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:18,200
Speaker 1: be subject to this like you know, toxic top down

1223
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:21,640
Speaker 1: bureaucracy that exists at all of these networks. And so

1224
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:25,960
Speaker 1: I think people like Chris Wallace, potentially, Casey Hunt, potentially

1225
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:30,120
Speaker 1: they delude themselves into thinking like, oh, maybe I could

1226
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 1: have that too, but you've already sold out. Your credibility

1227
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 1: is too late. I'm sorry that that ship has sailed.

1228
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 1: But I do think that that does drive. Part of

1229
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 1: it is even they feel like they recognize. I mean,

1230
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:45,680
Speaker 1: I've talked to these you know, a number of these hosts.

1231
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 1: They recognize how crappy the medium is and how depressing

1232
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:50,920
Speaker 1: it is to do these like short segments where you

1233
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 1: can never actually dig into an issue and where you

1234
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 1: have very little control over what the topics are and

1235
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:58,200
Speaker 1: you've got to pretend like you really care about whatever

1236
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:00,360
Speaker 1: issue of the day or Trump outrage of the day

1237
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:03,160
Speaker 1: or whatever it is. When sometimes you do and sometimes

1238
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:06,320
Speaker 1: you really don't, it is soul sucking. And so when

1239
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 1: they look at people who have that like freedom and

1240
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 1: independence and are gaining and cultural relevance, Yeah, they feel jealous.

1241
01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 1: They definitely do. I think it's a big part of it. Chris,

1242
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:17,680
Speaker 1: we wish you the best, but we'll probably never hear

1243
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:20,600
Speaker 1: about you ever. Sorry, man, I don't know what else.

1244
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:25,360
Speaker 1: Sometimes the truth hurts, all right, Sager, what do you

1245
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:28,000
Speaker 1: looking at it? Well? Some people ask is it hard

1246
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 1: to do this job and come up with a monologue

1247
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:33,040
Speaker 1: topic several times a week. Sometimes Yeah, But there's a

1248
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 1: bottomless well of stories about corruption that I'm always going

1249
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 1: to try to reach for and try to highlight for

1250
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 1: all of you. Today's is about Apple at the top.

1251
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:43,560
Speaker 1: I'm going to acknowledge the irony. I wrote this on

1252
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:45,960
Speaker 1: an Apple computer. I have an Apple Watch, I have

1253
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:49,280
Speaker 1: an iPhone. I'm a full blown Apple fanboy, have been

1254
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:51,400
Speaker 1: for years. But as I said when I was discussing

1255
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:54,520
Speaker 1: Elon Musk and his business dealings with China, nobody is

1256
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:58,120
Speaker 1: above scrutiny Apple supply and business reliance on China. It's

1257
01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:00,960
Speaker 1: a long source spot for the company. They're woke, but

1258
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:03,400
Speaker 1: when the topic of ue your genocide comes up, or

1259
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,360
Speaker 1: Hong Kong, they get real squirrely. And while we always

1260
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:09,640
Speaker 1: knew that the Chinese Communist Party had massive leverage over them,

1261
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 1: it's very rare that you get to see any of

1262
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:14,240
Speaker 1: this in writing, as in, how does it work? What's

1263
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:17,760
Speaker 1: the brass tacks? And thanks to some great journalism from

1264
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:21,440
Speaker 1: the information, we now actually have proof and it's stunning.

1265
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 1: Apple CEO Tim cook top levels of the CCP forged

1266
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:28,240
Speaker 1: a two hundred and seventy five billion with the b

1267
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:32,200
Speaker 1: dollar deal in twenty sixteen, where Apple promised it would

1268
01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:35,920
Speaker 1: do its part to develop China's economy and technological prowess

1269
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:39,640
Speaker 1: through investments, business deals, and worker training. The deal was

1270
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:42,680
Speaker 1: personally forged by Tim Cook, and it was made from

1271
01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 1: a position of weakness. See In twenty six sixteen, when

1272
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 1: smartphone sales were going down, Apple, which has both major

1273
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:53,520
Speaker 1: supply and demand reliance on China, started facing all kinds

1274
01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:57,800
Speaker 1: of uncomfortable questions from Chinese regulators. Those questions included and

1275
01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:01,880
Speaker 1: sparked panic inside of Coopertino because the CCP launched a

1276
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:05,800
Speaker 1: domestic propaganda campaign against Apple, which actually led to a

1277
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 1: plunge in the sale of the iPhone. So the information

1278
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:12,080
Speaker 1: reveals that over the course of that year, Cook forged

1279
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:16,360
Speaker 1: a memorandum of understanding with the Chinese government in which

1280
01:08:16,360 --> 01:08:19,360
Speaker 1: he would put a billion dollars into d D, which

1281
01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:22,920
Speaker 1: is a Chinese uber competitor. After that payoff, Cook was

1282
01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:26,800
Speaker 1: then invited to a secret CCP leadership compound where he

1283
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:30,600
Speaker 1: committed to aiding a dozen causes that China values domestically,

1284
01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 1: including helping their domestic manufacturers develop quote the most advanced

1285
01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:40,040
Speaker 1: manufacturing technologies and to support the training of domestic tech

1286
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:44,200
Speaker 1: talent inside of China. Now, Apple promised to quote use

1287
01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:47,920
Speaker 1: more components from Chinese suppliers in its devices, signed deals

1288
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:52,160
Speaker 1: with Chinese software firms, collaborate on technologies with Chinese universities,

1289
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:55,920
Speaker 1: and invest in Chinese tech companies. Aka, you pay off

1290
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:58,479
Speaker 1: whoever we tell you to pay off. That total deal

1291
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:02,360
Speaker 1: was two hundred and seven five billion of promise spending

1292
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:05,400
Speaker 1: by Apple inside China, and it remains in place right

1293
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 1: now to this day. It's still in place. So you

1294
01:09:07,560 --> 01:09:10,519
Speaker 1: could say, hey, that's business. But what's a common theme

1295
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:14,040
Speaker 1: in all these stories. This stuff isn't for free, even

1296
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:17,679
Speaker 1: in China. When you agree to pay them build their tech,

1297
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:22,160
Speaker 1: grow their supply chain, train their labor. As an American company,

1298
01:09:22,360 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 1: they still have you bent over and they know it.

1299
01:09:25,160 --> 01:09:27,799
Speaker 1: So they pushed further and they got cooked to agree

1300
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:31,720
Speaker 1: to quote strictly abide by Chinese laws and regulations. You

1301
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:34,320
Speaker 1: know what that means. At first, it starts really small.

1302
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:37,320
Speaker 1: For Apple. It started with Maps. I know who uses

1303
01:09:37,360 --> 01:09:40,400
Speaker 1: Apple Maps anyway, it's terrible. But in two tent and fifteen,

1304
01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:44,400
Speaker 1: China's State Bureau of Surveying and Mapping told Apple Maps

1305
01:09:44,479 --> 01:09:48,519
Speaker 1: they literally had to make disputed dau islands. I'm sorry

1306
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:52,719
Speaker 1: if I mispronounced that appear large even when users zoomed

1307
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 1: out from them. If they didn't. They said the Apple

1308
01:09:56,160 --> 01:09:58,160
Speaker 1: Watch was going to be a goner inside of China.

1309
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:00,559
Speaker 1: So they panicked and they did it, and to this

1310
01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 1: day right now, if you zoom out from those islands,

1311
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:07,240
Speaker 1: they appear larger than every other island, simply for CCP

1312
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:10,519
Speaker 1: propaganda purposes. It's like, you can't make this stuff up.

1313
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:12,920
Speaker 1: But as you all know, that's just how it starts.

1314
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:16,440
Speaker 1: China begins flexing its muscles here. Soon it begins inspecting

1315
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 1: Apple's offices in China, auditing Apple pay. The next thing,

1316
01:10:20,439 --> 01:10:23,600
Speaker 1: they say, hey, you know iCloud isn't secure enough for

1317
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:26,400
Speaker 1: our standards, so you need to hand over the encryption

1318
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:29,759
Speaker 1: key to the US and partner with a Chinese company

1319
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:32,960
Speaker 1: and giving us a backdoor to billions of people's data,

1320
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:36,599
Speaker 1: especially our own citizens. They then negotiated. They decided instead

1321
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:40,040
Speaker 1: to a partner with Chinese companies in Inner Mongolia, and

1322
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:43,519
Speaker 1: they had to build data centers inside a CCP territory.

1323
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:46,040
Speaker 1: They claim that Apple is the only one who has

1324
01:10:46,040 --> 01:10:48,679
Speaker 1: the encryption key. You're taking their word for it. There's

1325
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:51,559
Speaker 1: no verification. There are a million minute examples like that,

1326
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 1: and I encourage you all to actually go and read

1327
01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:55,840
Speaker 1: this piece. But the bottom line is this Apple has

1328
01:10:55,880 --> 01:10:59,080
Speaker 1: a brand that they don't bow to anyone. That privacy

1329
01:10:59,240 --> 01:11:01,360
Speaker 1: is the key. That they even stood up to our

1330
01:11:01,479 --> 01:11:05,000
Speaker 1: FBI by the way, to completely support that. But in China,

1331
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:07,680
Speaker 1: when it comes to real dollars, they bow just like

1332
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:12,240
Speaker 1: everybody else. They accommodate ridiculous demands like the maps requests

1333
01:11:12,280 --> 01:11:15,120
Speaker 1: they put up with, compromising their own customers data. They

1334
01:11:15,160 --> 01:11:18,320
Speaker 1: pledge billions to fake tech companies that serve as bribes

1335
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 1: to members of influence all over China, all to protect

1336
01:11:21,200 --> 01:11:24,160
Speaker 1: their bottom line. And it worked. That's always a thing.

1337
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:27,519
Speaker 1: It works well. Apple sales in China are record high

1338
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:29,840
Speaker 1: two hundred and seventy five billion they poured in. It's

1339
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:32,759
Speaker 1: a paltry sum compared to what they've earned. Right now,

1340
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:35,320
Speaker 1: Apple does business with companies that have even been proven

1341
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:38,439
Speaker 1: to use weager forced labor, and they don't care. Right now,

1342
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:41,559
Speaker 1: they're complying with Chinese data security laws, which require them

1343
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:43,799
Speaker 1: to store all their data in China and to facto

1344
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:46,960
Speaker 1: give government agents access to it anytime they want the

1345
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:50,200
Speaker 1: Chinese win, Apple wins. The only people really loser US,

1346
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:52,680
Speaker 1: one of our flagship tech companies is more beholden to

1347
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:54,719
Speaker 1: a foreign government than the place that it was born.

1348
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 1: And as I said when discussing Tesla, easiest way to

1349
01:11:58,280 --> 01:12:00,679
Speaker 1: solve this problem is to just simply make the choice.

1350
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:03,439
Speaker 1: For Apple and for Tim Cook, you either do business

1351
01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:05,639
Speaker 1: here by our norms or you can do it there

1352
01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:08,439
Speaker 1: by theirs. Do you choose what you want? Until then

1353
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:11,000
Speaker 1: Tim Cook should probably shut his mouth on whatever social

1354
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:13,519
Speaker 1: cause he's pretending to speak out here about. In the US.

1355
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:16,720
Speaker 1: He can either be an a moral rapacious capitalist or

1356
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:18,880
Speaker 1: he can be a social justice warrior. But you can't

1357
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:20,840
Speaker 1: do business the way that he has in China, and

1358
01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:23,719
Speaker 1: you can be both. I mean, Cristal. With always these things,

1359
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:25,880
Speaker 1: I found the huge degree of public interest because a

1360
01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:29,120
Speaker 1: lot of people just don't really know. And if you

1361
01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:32,000
Speaker 1: want to hear my reaction to Sager's monologue, become a

1362
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:37,640
Speaker 1: premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com. Crystal, what do

1363
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:39,800
Speaker 1: you taking a look at? Well, guys. A UK court

1364
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:43,680
Speaker 1: has now officially ruled that Julian Assange can be extradited

1365
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:46,719
Speaker 1: to the United States in order to face Espionage Act charges.

1366
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 1: Those were brought by the Trump Justice Department, and they

1367
01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:53,520
Speaker 1: have been continued under the Biden Justice Department. Now, originally

1368
01:12:53,720 --> 01:12:57,200
Speaker 1: a UK court had ruled against extraditing Assange, not because

1369
01:12:57,200 --> 01:13:00,439
Speaker 1: they objected to the outrageous charges against him, but because

1370
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:04,000
Speaker 1: they worried that the toxic combination of Julian's extreme mental

1371
01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:06,920
Speaker 1: anguish combined with the endemic cruelty of the American prison

1372
01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:11,479
Speaker 1: prison system created a grave suicide risk. On appeal, the

1373
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 1: US government under Joe Biden offered some fairly meaningless assurances

1374
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:18,400
Speaker 1: regarding Julian's health, and those reassured the court enough for

1375
01:13:18,439 --> 01:13:21,559
Speaker 1: them to rule that he could in fact be extradited. Now,

1376
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:24,479
Speaker 1: Julian does have a few additional legal options he can pursue.

1377
01:13:24,479 --> 01:13:26,840
Speaker 1: According to his fiance, they are planning to appeal to

1378
01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:29,720
Speaker 1: the British Supreme Court. If that fails or they are

1379
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:32,040
Speaker 1: unwilling to take up his case, he could seek a

1380
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:34,880
Speaker 1: stay of extradition from the European Court of Human Rights.

1381
01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:37,559
Speaker 1: And we're about to speak with Julian's brother Gabriel about

1382
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:39,920
Speaker 1: his health, the charges against him, and the broader implications

1383
01:13:39,960 --> 01:13:42,840
Speaker 1: for press freedom. But I wanted to take a look

1384
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:45,679
Speaker 1: at how the cowards in the American press are covering

1385
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:49,479
Speaker 1: all these developments. In particular, take a listen to how

1386
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:53,280
Speaker 1: all of this was reported on by MSNBC's Joe Scarborough

1387
01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:59,919
Speaker 1: Claire mccaskell. There is a lot of smoke surrounding Julian Assange.

1388
01:14:00,240 --> 01:14:03,360
Speaker 1: Of course, there were the charges in Sweden that were

1389
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:10,280
Speaker 1: subsequently dropped. There is the hacking and his vendetta against

1390
01:14:10,360 --> 01:14:17,240
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton. There's information that was released that showed military

1391
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:23,000
Speaker 1: malfeasance by the United States. But you know, it's so

1392
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:26,920
Speaker 1: interesting that it used to be the far left to

1393
01:14:27,080 --> 01:14:31,280
Speaker 1: oppose George W. Bush's wars in Afghanistan in Iraq, who

1394
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:34,679
Speaker 1: made this guy a hero under the guys of First Amendment,

1395
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:38,799
Speaker 1: And then when he started leaking information against Hillary Clinton,

1396
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:43,840
Speaker 1: it became the Trump right that suddenly held Julian aside. So,

1397
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:46,280
Speaker 1: but let's just look at the politics of this. As

1398
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:48,960
Speaker 1: a prosecutor, you're given this case, and you've got a

1399
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:55,240
Speaker 1: guy who's stolen thousands of documents, pages of highly classified

1400
01:14:55,520 --> 01:15:01,840
Speaker 1: national security documents, released them to the world, and in

1401
01:15:01,960 --> 01:15:07,120
Speaker 1: so doing put the lives of US troops, of people

1402
01:15:07,160 --> 01:15:11,640
Speaker 1: who were working with the United States allies, collaborators in

1403
01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:18,480
Speaker 1: war zones in the gravest of danger. Under any scenario

1404
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:21,920
Speaker 1: you take politics out of it, and this is an

1405
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:25,519
Speaker 1: open and shot case. This is not the Pentagon papers.

1406
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:29,880
Speaker 1: This wasn't Times editors rifling through documents figuring out what

1407
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:33,639
Speaker 1: could be released and what couldn't be released and explaining it.

1408
01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:37,000
Speaker 1: This was a guy that got stolen documents and gave

1409
01:15:37,040 --> 01:15:41,840
Speaker 1: it to the world. The amount of propaganda and just

1410
01:15:42,160 --> 01:15:46,000
Speaker 1: sheer lies packed into those few minutes of commentary is

1411
01:15:46,120 --> 01:15:49,640
Speaker 1: as stunning as it is astonishing. Let me lay on

1412
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:52,400
Speaker 1: this master work of deception step by step. So step

1413
01:15:52,400 --> 01:15:56,320
Speaker 1: one paint Massage as a generally bad guy. It seems

1414
01:15:56,400 --> 01:15:59,360
Speaker 1: kind of perplexing that Scarborough starts his anti Assange screen

1415
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:03,280
Speaker 1: bring up something totally irrelevant to the conversation the rape

1416
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:07,519
Speaker 1: charges against Assage in Sweden, which were discredited and ultimately dropped,

1417
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:09,840
Speaker 1: But of course by raising them at the outset, he

1418
01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:11,559
Speaker 1: starts to paint a portrait of a person who is

1419
01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:14,800
Speaker 1: suspect in any number of ways. Same with the irrelevant

1420
01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:19,519
Speaker 1: and unsubstantiated assertion that Assange had a vendetta against Hillary Clinton,

1421
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:23,000
Speaker 1: which also feeds directly in two step two appeal to

1422
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:27,200
Speaker 1: the audience's partisan bias. Scarborough asserts that in the beginning,

1423
01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:30,639
Speaker 1: the far left supported Assage end quote made him a hero,

1424
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:33,600
Speaker 1: but now it's the Trump right who admires him. This

1425
01:16:33,720 --> 01:16:36,639
Speaker 1: is not remotely true. Most everyone on the actual left

1426
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 1: continues to support Assannge because the principle of First Amendment

1427
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:41,880
Speaker 1: protections did not end when the information released stop being

1428
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:45,559
Speaker 1: convenient for the Democratic Party. It is true that liberals

1429
01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:48,920
Speaker 1: have further soured on Assange because of the Hillary Clinton revelations,

1430
01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:52,160
Speaker 1: but many liberals already hated Assange from the beginning thanks

1431
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:54,880
Speaker 1: to their close ties to the military industrial complex the

1432
01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:59,000
Speaker 1: Obama administration. They didn't charge Assange, but they hated the guy.

1433
01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:02,599
Speaker 1: They launched a regime of aggressive surveillance against him. As

1434
01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:05,880
Speaker 1: for the Trump right supporting Assange, now, it was the

1435
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:09,479
Speaker 1: Trump Justice Department who decided to charge Assange and even

1436
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:12,960
Speaker 1: considered kidnapping him or murdering him. In fact, there has

1437
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:17,280
Speaker 1: been full elite bipartisan consensus about Assange from Obama through

1438
01:17:17,320 --> 01:17:19,839
Speaker 1: Trump and now to Biden. But more to the point,

1439
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:23,360
Speaker 1: what does it matter how our various political tribes feel

1440
01:17:23,439 --> 01:17:26,559
Speaker 1: about Julian Assange. The only thing that matters is how

1441
01:17:26,600 --> 01:17:29,519
Speaker 1: his case relates to freedom of the press, an issue

1442
01:17:29,520 --> 01:17:33,479
Speaker 1: which of course Scarborough scarcely even mentions here, which brings

1443
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:37,160
Speaker 1: us to step number three. Wildly lie about what Assange

1444
01:17:37,320 --> 01:17:42,360
Speaker 1: actually did. So. In reality, Julian Assange published materials from

1445
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:46,640
Speaker 1: whistleblower Chelsea Manning which exposed Bush era war crimes. But

1446
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:50,799
Speaker 1: in Scarborough's telling, Assanges quote a guy who's stolen thousands

1447
01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:54,799
Speaker 1: of documents pages of highly classified national security documents end quote,

1448
01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:58,480
Speaker 1: released them to the world. This is just false. Assange

1449
01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:02,160
Speaker 1: did not hack or steal anything. Even the US government,

1450
01:18:02,200 --> 01:18:04,719
Speaker 1: which has tried to invent every phony and dubious charge

1451
01:18:04,760 --> 01:18:08,360
Speaker 1: against Assage that they possibly could, even they are not

1452
01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:13,440
Speaker 1: arguing that as Songe directly stole the documents which were released. Instead,

1453
01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:16,760
Speaker 1: he did what journalists do all the time, which is

1454
01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:20,679
Speaker 1: to publish classified information given to him by a source.

1455
01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:24,160
Speaker 1: In that way, Yeah, this case is in fact very

1456
01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:29,000
Speaker 1: much like the Pentagon papers. Step four repeat Pentagon propaganda

1457
01:18:29,040 --> 01:18:31,719
Speaker 1: about how the release of those documents put service members

1458
01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:34,919
Speaker 1: at risk. Now, look, when the documents were first released,

1459
01:18:35,160 --> 01:18:37,240
Speaker 1: it was possible that some of what was put out

1460
01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:39,880
Speaker 1: there could have put our people at risk, But as

1461
01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:43,799
Speaker 1: Glenn Greenwald always points out, you know one hundred percent

1462
01:18:44,280 --> 01:18:46,960
Speaker 1: that if even one life was lost or even put

1463
01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:50,840
Speaker 1: a genuine risk thanks to these disclosures, the Pentagon and

1464
01:18:50,880 --> 01:18:54,480
Speaker 1: their disgusting apologists would have shouted it from the rooftops.

1465
01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:56,879
Speaker 1: We would know their names, we would know their stories,

1466
01:18:57,000 --> 01:19:00,760
Speaker 1: we would know exactly how WikiLeaks ultimately harm them. But

1467
01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:03,599
Speaker 1: over all these many years, they have not come up

1468
01:19:03,640 --> 01:19:08,080
Speaker 1: with a single solitary example. So, having thus laid out

1469
01:19:08,479 --> 01:19:12,599
Speaker 1: Joe's case of lies and disinformation, he then pronounces this

1470
01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:16,320
Speaker 1: an open and shutcase. And he's right. Anyone with a

1471
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:19,000
Speaker 1: basic sen of principles, looking at the actual facts of

1472
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:21,360
Speaker 1: the case, would also find this to be an open

1473
01:19:21,439 --> 01:19:25,880
Speaker 1: and shut case, just as the Obama administration reluctantly did.

1474
01:19:26,360 --> 01:19:31,680
Speaker 1: You cannot criminalize, as soannge without also criminalizing journalism and

1475
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:33,640
Speaker 1: the cherry. On top of all of this, which I

1476
01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:35,800
Speaker 1: couldn't even bring myself to show you lest you go

1477
01:19:35,840 --> 01:19:38,759
Speaker 1: into shock from exposure to too many terrible Morning Joe takes,

1478
01:19:39,320 --> 01:19:43,439
Speaker 1: was Claire mccaskell suggesting that the assault on Assange was

1479
01:19:43,439 --> 01:19:46,880
Speaker 1: about preserving the rule of law, when, of course, what

1480
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:50,080
Speaker 1: is actually happening here is a direct assault on the Constitution,

1481
01:19:50,320 --> 01:19:55,160
Speaker 1: authorized and whitewashed by a bipartisan chorus of elites. All

1482
01:19:55,280 --> 01:19:58,919
Speaker 1: of these people feigned great concern about the First Amendment

1483
01:19:59,160 --> 01:20:02,600
Speaker 1: about freedom of the US during the Trump administration, Scarborough

1484
01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:06,439
Speaker 1: himself suggested that Trump would quote arrest us tomorrow, raising

1485
01:20:06,439 --> 01:20:08,960
Speaker 1: the specter of journalists and publishers the New York Times

1486
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:12,920
Speaker 1: and Washington Post behind bars. Well, Trump did arrest a

1487
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:15,960
Speaker 1: publisher and in doing so paved the way to the

1488
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:20,639
Speaker 1: criminalization of journalism that Scarborough pretended to fear. And instead

1489
01:20:20,680 --> 01:20:23,400
Speaker 1: of standing up for the First Amendment, Scarborough and Claire

1490
01:20:23,479 --> 01:20:26,840
Speaker 1: mccaskell and a lot more besides, they are cheerleading this

1491
01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:31,839
Speaker 1: authoritarian attack with friends of democracy like these. Who needs enemies.

1492
01:20:32,280 --> 01:20:34,519
Speaker 1: There was so much going on in that clip that

1493
01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:36,599
Speaker 1: I couldn't even get to all of it. I love

1494
01:20:36,640 --> 01:20:39,640
Speaker 1: how he refers, and if you want to hear my

1495
01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:43,160
Speaker 1: reaction to Crystal's monologue, become a premium subscriber today at

1496
01:20:43,160 --> 01:20:48,920
Speaker 1: Breakingpoints dot Com. Joining us now for an update on

1497
01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:52,360
Speaker 1: Julian's case and also his health and the broader implications

1498
01:20:52,360 --> 01:20:55,080
Speaker 1: for press freedom is his brother, Gabriel Shipton. We're so

1499
01:20:55,120 --> 01:20:58,360
Speaker 1: grateful for your time today, Gabriel, thanks for having me.

1500
01:20:59,479 --> 01:21:01,719
Speaker 1: I want to get to the bigger picture about the case,

1501
01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:04,240
Speaker 1: but first I wanted to ask about your brother's health.

1502
01:21:04,280 --> 01:21:05,920
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and throw this tear sheet up on

1503
01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:10,880
Speaker 1: the screen. We understand he suffered a minor stroke while

1504
01:21:10,880 --> 01:21:14,639
Speaker 1: he was in prison on the day of that hearing.

1505
01:21:14,920 --> 01:21:20,320
Speaker 1: How is he doing right now? How is his health? Yes, well,

1506
01:21:21,080 --> 01:21:23,960
Speaker 1: so yeah, he's he's recovered from from the minor stroke

1507
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:27,640
Speaker 1: and he's now on medication. But I think this is

1508
01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:31,280
Speaker 1: just a you know, it's he will he you know,

1509
01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:33,880
Speaker 1: this is going to kill him, and and this is

1510
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:37,920
Speaker 1: just another sign of pressure, you know, the constant anxiety

1511
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:42,120
Speaker 1: that the pressure that's upon him is so great. You

1512
01:21:42,160 --> 01:21:46,599
Speaker 1: know that eventually he will crumble. But you know, at

1513
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:51,800
Speaker 1: the moment, you know, he's very focused and fighting, you know,

1514
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:58,240
Speaker 1: appealing this decision and eager to keep fighting. So, Gabriel,

1515
01:21:58,280 --> 01:22:00,759
Speaker 1: you were telling us before the segment it was always

1516
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:03,439
Speaker 1: going to go to the Supreme Court. I don't really

1517
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:06,800
Speaker 1: understand the British legal system. Could you explain it to

1518
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:10,559
Speaker 1: our viewers about what's next. It's not necessarily open and

1519
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:13,040
Speaker 1: shut in terms of an extradition to the United States

1520
01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:19,200
Speaker 1: yet is it well. So the extradition was approved by

1521
01:22:19,240 --> 01:22:23,080
Speaker 1: the High Court. It went back on an earlier decision

1522
01:22:23,120 --> 01:22:28,040
Speaker 1: by the Magistrate's court to reject the extradition. The extradition

1523
01:22:28,160 --> 01:22:31,479
Speaker 1: was approved based on US assurances that Julian would not

1524
01:22:31,720 --> 01:22:37,680
Speaker 1: be kept in Floria. I think it's it's anyway it's

1525
01:22:37,680 --> 01:22:41,080
Speaker 1: a maximum security prison in Colorado that he would not

1526
01:22:41,120 --> 01:22:44,800
Speaker 1: be held under SAMs. But these come with caveats so

1527
01:22:45,160 --> 01:22:49,400
Speaker 1: that at any time the Director of the CIA may

1528
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:53,720
Speaker 1: change Julian's situation in US prisons. He may be put

1529
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:57,080
Speaker 1: under sam's or what Daniel Hale is under at the moment,

1530
01:22:57,120 --> 01:23:01,360
Speaker 1: which is Communications Management Unit, which is similar to the

1531
01:23:01,400 --> 01:23:07,679
Speaker 1: ad X Florence, Colorado jail setup. What's one thing about

1532
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:11,200
Speaker 1: this decision, It was made one of the judges was

1533
01:23:11,240 --> 01:23:14,040
Speaker 1: the Chief Magistrate of England and Wales, so he's the

1534
01:23:14,120 --> 01:23:17,920
Speaker 1: highest judge in the UK, the highest ranking judge in

1535
01:23:17,920 --> 01:23:23,680
Speaker 1: the UK who's approved this extradition. So any any appeals

1536
01:23:23,720 --> 01:23:26,519
Speaker 1: now to the Supreme Court become very hard because they'll

1537
01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:30,360
Speaker 1: have to go against the decision of the highest judge

1538
01:23:30,360 --> 01:23:34,920
Speaker 1: in the land. So it's become very real that this

1539
01:23:35,040 --> 01:23:39,479
Speaker 1: case is coming to the US it can be dropped

1540
01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:42,720
Speaker 1: at any moment. The Biden administration has the opportunity to

1541
01:23:42,800 --> 01:23:46,920
Speaker 1: let this go at any moment, and that's what we're

1542
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:50,200
Speaker 1: calling for them to do. But yeah, I think now

1543
01:23:50,680 --> 01:23:53,719
Speaker 1: it's we can no longer rely on the British courts

1544
01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:58,000
Speaker 1: to stop this. They've approved the extradition. The fight has

1545
01:23:58,040 --> 01:24:00,840
Speaker 1: to be made here in the US to stop this,

1546
01:24:01,320 --> 01:24:05,840
Speaker 1: to stop this prosecution. And if the British Supreme Court

1547
01:24:06,479 --> 01:24:10,360
Speaker 1: takes up Julian's case, what will be the substance of

1548
01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:14,080
Speaker 1: the case that Julian's team will make there? I know,

1549
01:24:14,160 --> 01:24:18,760
Speaker 1: ultimately the extradition hearings turned around Julian's health and safety.

1550
01:24:19,240 --> 01:24:22,240
Speaker 1: Will that continue to be the thrust of the arguments

1551
01:24:22,280 --> 01:24:24,200
Speaker 1: that are made to the Supreme Court or will they

1552
01:24:24,320 --> 01:24:28,760
Speaker 1: also turn on the nature of the charges against him? No,

1553
01:24:28,880 --> 01:24:30,720
Speaker 1: I mean it's going to be it's going to be

1554
01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:34,799
Speaker 1: based on the assurances. So it'll be the very narrow

1555
01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:38,479
Speaker 1: grounds that they can appeal this decision to the Supreme Court,

1556
01:24:38,600 --> 01:24:44,040
Speaker 1: So none of the substantive you know, press freedom angles

1557
01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:46,559
Speaker 1: or any of that sort of stuff will come up.

1558
01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:49,880
Speaker 1: It will be mostly on the you know, the assurances

1559
01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:53,000
Speaker 1: that were given by the US that they could keep

1560
01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:54,920
Speaker 1: Julian safe, which we know is not true. You know,

1561
01:24:55,560 --> 01:24:57,519
Speaker 1: you know, the most one of the most high profile

1562
01:24:57,560 --> 01:25:00,880
Speaker 1: prisoners in the UN prison system, jeffre Epstein, He couldn't

1563
01:25:00,880 --> 01:25:04,920
Speaker 1: be kept safe. So how can we rely on assurances

1564
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:09,160
Speaker 1: given by the US. They're not worth the paper they're

1565
01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:12,680
Speaker 1: printed on. Well, that's you know, certainly something obviously to

1566
01:25:12,680 --> 01:25:15,240
Speaker 1: be considered in a very good example, I mean, in

1567
01:25:15,360 --> 01:25:18,400
Speaker 1: terms of what we'll get actually litigated at the British

1568
01:25:18,439 --> 01:25:21,439
Speaker 1: Supreme Court, Gabriel, is it going to be the same

1569
01:25:22,360 --> 01:25:26,280
Speaker 1: consideration of actual conditions in the US prison system or

1570
01:25:26,320 --> 01:25:29,160
Speaker 1: will any of these substantive matters come to light or

1571
01:25:29,160 --> 01:25:33,160
Speaker 1: do they only matter here in the United States? Yeah,

1572
01:25:33,360 --> 01:25:36,080
Speaker 1: it only matters in the United States. They can't you know,

1573
01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:39,920
Speaker 1: they can't be fought in the Supreme Court. Even so,

1574
01:25:39,960 --> 01:25:42,680
Speaker 1: there is even the appeal might even be rejected. So

1575
01:25:43,439 --> 01:25:47,400
Speaker 1: Julian's appeal might be rejected to the Supreme Court, so

1576
01:25:47,720 --> 01:25:50,280
Speaker 1: it might not even make their make it there, and

1577
01:25:50,360 --> 01:25:54,160
Speaker 1: he might be extradited, you know, sooner than we think.

1578
01:25:54,960 --> 01:25:59,160
Speaker 1: But yes, none of those substantive press freedom grounds or

1579
01:25:59,200 --> 01:26:01,599
Speaker 1: those first amends grounds can be argued in the UK.

1580
01:26:01,760 --> 01:26:05,720
Speaker 1: I mean the UK that has no First Amendment. It's

1581
01:26:05,960 --> 01:26:12,799
Speaker 1: press freedom's terrible they've got It's not like us, right, yeah,

1582
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:14,600
Speaker 1: or at least how the US is supposed to be

1583
01:26:15,360 --> 01:26:19,639
Speaker 1: speak to those broader concerns. The Obama administration famously they

1584
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:21,800
Speaker 1: you know, they wanted to go after your brother, but

1585
01:26:21,800 --> 01:26:24,719
Speaker 1: they couldn't figure out a legal rationale that wouldn't also

1586
01:26:24,760 --> 01:26:27,800
Speaker 1: implicate the New York Times or The Guardian or any

1587
01:26:27,840 --> 01:26:32,680
Speaker 1: other number of mainstream publishing outlets they couldn't distinguish, so

1588
01:26:32,760 --> 01:26:35,600
Speaker 1: they had to let it go. They launched aggressive surveillance

1589
01:26:35,640 --> 01:26:38,200
Speaker 1: against Julian, but it was only under Trump that they

1590
01:26:38,280 --> 01:26:42,320
Speaker 1: decided to take this extra step to actually prosecute him,

1591
01:26:42,520 --> 01:26:48,160
Speaker 1: with major implications for journalists, for publishers, for the First Amendment.

1592
01:26:48,400 --> 01:26:50,719
Speaker 1: Could you just lay out the stakes for our audience,

1593
01:26:50,760 --> 01:26:53,240
Speaker 1: who I think have followed this fairly well, but lay

1594
01:26:53,240 --> 01:26:55,120
Speaker 1: out the stakes as if they haven't been following this

1595
01:26:55,240 --> 01:27:01,479
Speaker 1: along from the beginning. Well, so, since since nine eleven,

1596
01:27:01,600 --> 01:27:04,360
Speaker 1: the Espionage Act has been you know, comeing to use

1597
01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:08,760
Speaker 1: more and more. It's been used mostly against whistleblowers, to

1598
01:27:08,760 --> 01:27:15,920
Speaker 1: prosecute whistleblowers, you know, So, Daniel Hale, Thomas Drake people

1599
01:27:15,960 --> 01:27:18,479
Speaker 1: like that. But this is the first time that it's

1600
01:27:18,520 --> 01:27:22,240
Speaker 1: ever been used against a journalist and a publisher. So Julian,

1601
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:25,160
Speaker 1: you know, he's not a whistleblower. He didn't work for

1602
01:27:25,200 --> 01:27:28,320
Speaker 1: the for the for the government or anything like that.

1603
01:27:28,520 --> 01:27:30,880
Speaker 1: He's a publisher. And so this is the first time

1604
01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:34,599
Speaker 1: this espionage is broad Espionage Act has been used against

1605
01:27:34,600 --> 01:27:38,960
Speaker 1: a publisher, and it's precisely it's precisely been used for

1606
01:27:39,080 --> 01:27:43,080
Speaker 1: Julian to be made. An example of this is if

1607
01:27:43,120 --> 01:27:47,799
Speaker 1: you publish a secret information about about the US government,

1608
01:27:47,880 --> 01:27:52,160
Speaker 1: about the military industrial complex, this is what's going to

1609
01:27:52,200 --> 01:27:55,480
Speaker 1: happen to you. So everyone around the world can now see.

1610
01:27:56,160 --> 01:27:59,519
Speaker 1: You know, I think twice before you know they report

1611
01:27:59,560 --> 01:28:01,280
Speaker 1: on a lead. You know, well do I want to

1612
01:28:01,320 --> 01:28:04,479
Speaker 1: do this? Because I could end up you know, like

1613
01:28:04,600 --> 01:28:07,680
Speaker 1: Juliana sarge. And this has a flow on effect to

1614
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:10,880
Speaker 1: whistleblowers as well. If you're a whistleblow, if you're working,

1615
01:28:11,080 --> 01:28:14,040
Speaker 1: you know, in one of these organizations and you see

1616
01:28:14,040 --> 01:28:17,120
Speaker 1: something wrong and you think, well, I could report this

1617
01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:20,400
Speaker 1: to a reporter, but will they will they report it?

1618
01:28:20,439 --> 01:28:24,519
Speaker 1: Will will that reporter actually take my leak and publish it?

1619
01:28:24,960 --> 01:28:28,240
Speaker 1: Because at the moment if they do, they could end

1620
01:28:28,320 --> 01:28:31,960
Speaker 1: up in prison. So it's just this sort of compounding

1621
01:28:32,040 --> 01:28:38,160
Speaker 1: effect on transparency and you know government things, you know,

1622
01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:41,280
Speaker 1: transparency and government wrongdoing that we just don't know about.

1623
01:28:41,360 --> 01:28:44,439
Speaker 1: So the effects are already here, they're already with us.

1624
01:28:44,960 --> 01:28:46,760
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, you can see that in

1625
01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:49,280
Speaker 1: the amount of leakers that we've that have come out

1626
01:28:49,320 --> 01:28:52,439
Speaker 1: from from the security state in the last years. I don't,

1627
01:28:52,520 --> 01:28:56,559
Speaker 1: you know, I can't remember any. Yeah, that's a great point, Gabriel.

1628
01:28:56,640 --> 01:28:58,519
Speaker 1: I know there's a rally plan in New York City

1629
01:28:58,600 --> 01:29:02,479
Speaker 1: where you are today, outside the UK Consulate. We encourage

1630
01:29:02,520 --> 01:29:05,200
Speaker 1: people to attend there if they support Julian's cause and

1631
01:29:05,200 --> 01:29:08,360
Speaker 1: the cause of press freedom more generally, what else can

1632
01:29:08,400 --> 01:29:14,640
Speaker 1: people do to help support Julian impress freedom here? So

1633
01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:17,599
Speaker 1: I've been encouraging people to call their congress. People, call

1634
01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:20,559
Speaker 1: your representatives, you know, let them know that you care

1635
01:29:20,600 --> 01:29:24,240
Speaker 1: about your right to know, you care that you care

1636
01:29:24,280 --> 01:29:26,679
Speaker 1: about your rights to know what's done with your tax dollars,

1637
01:29:26,720 --> 01:29:32,560
Speaker 1: and as your elected representative, they should be representing your interests.

1638
01:29:32,920 --> 01:29:35,320
Speaker 1: So I've been asking people just to call their congress. People,

1639
01:29:35,400 --> 01:29:37,559
Speaker 1: call them every day, just keep calling them and telling

1640
01:29:37,600 --> 01:29:41,280
Speaker 1: them that you know, these threats to press freedom, you know,

1641
01:29:41,479 --> 01:29:47,200
Speaker 1: are not acceptable. Finally, Gabriel, when will we know whether

1642
01:29:47,280 --> 01:29:51,120
Speaker 1: the British Supreme Court is even going to hear Julian's case?

1643
01:29:51,120 --> 01:29:52,800
Speaker 1: What does the timeline look like from here to the

1644
01:29:52,800 --> 01:29:56,280
Speaker 1: best of your knowledge, So Julian has until the twenty

1645
01:29:56,280 --> 01:29:59,599
Speaker 1: fourth of December to submit his appeal or his lawyers

1646
01:29:59,600 --> 01:30:03,639
Speaker 1: will submit his appeal. Then I imagine, you know, it'll

1647
01:30:03,680 --> 01:30:06,400
Speaker 1: be six weeks or so before we know whether the

1648
01:30:06,439 --> 01:30:10,599
Speaker 1: appeal will be approved. And then, you know, I think

1649
01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:12,360
Speaker 1: in the coming year they'll have to set a date,

1650
01:30:12,400 --> 01:30:14,759
Speaker 1: so it could be another eight months before we see

1651
01:30:15,680 --> 01:30:18,519
Speaker 1: see an appeal here. And in that time, Julian will

1652
01:30:18,560 --> 01:30:22,000
Speaker 1: be in the maximum security prison at Belmarsh, where he

1653
01:30:22,080 --> 01:30:26,479
Speaker 1: is a remand prisoner. He's not convicted of anything. He

1654
01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:28,600
Speaker 1: is there at the request of the US d o J.

1655
01:30:29,439 --> 01:30:31,320
Speaker 1: The U s d o J has requested that he

1656
01:30:31,439 --> 01:30:34,800
Speaker 1: not be given bail, so that's where he is. He

1657
01:30:34,840 --> 01:30:38,599
Speaker 1: will be writing in prison until the Supreme Court decides

1658
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:41,640
Speaker 1: when they're going to hear this next year. Unbelievable, and

1659
01:30:41,640 --> 01:30:45,920
Speaker 1: the Biden administration could drop this at any time, Gabriel.

1660
01:30:45,960 --> 01:30:49,799
Speaker 1: We're super grateful for your time today and keep us updated.

1661
01:30:49,960 --> 01:30:54,120
Speaker 1: Thanks Gabriel, No, thank you both. Thank you, Yeah, pleasure absolutely,

1662
01:30:54,560 --> 01:30:57,000
Speaker 1: thank you guys so much for watching. We really appreciate it.

1663
01:30:57,000 --> 01:30:59,719
Speaker 1: We appreciate all the support for you guys out here.

1664
01:31:00,200 --> 01:31:02,519
Speaker 1: I have been reminded we have the ability to do

1665
01:31:02,640 --> 01:31:05,479
Speaker 1: gift subscriptions. We had a couple of people write in

1666
01:31:05,520 --> 01:31:07,960
Speaker 1: They're like, can I do a gift subscription for somebody? Yeah?

1667
01:31:07,960 --> 01:31:10,800
Speaker 1: I didn't know that either, been reminded. So here is

1668
01:31:10,880 --> 01:31:12,559
Speaker 1: my reminder to you if you would like to purchase

1669
01:31:12,560 --> 01:31:15,000
Speaker 1: for that. By the way, this was suggested by a

1670
01:31:15,040 --> 01:31:17,760
Speaker 1: lifetime member or whatever. If they want. If you want

1671
01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:19,320
Speaker 1: to send in the ability in order to do a

1672
01:31:19,320 --> 01:31:21,559
Speaker 1: tryal gift subscription, just send it in an email. We'll

1673
01:31:21,560 --> 01:31:23,720
Speaker 1: make sure that happens for you. For everybody else, if

1674
01:31:23,720 --> 01:31:26,479
Speaker 1: you could support us, it definitely means the absolute world.

1675
01:31:26,560 --> 01:31:29,160
Speaker 1: It helps our ability. We're building up the show as

1676
01:31:29,240 --> 01:31:31,200
Speaker 1: much as possible. And I got to be honest, Crystal,

1677
01:31:31,240 --> 01:31:32,920
Speaker 1: I think we're you know, I don't think either of

1678
01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:35,240
Speaker 1: us realize, you know, just six months in we'd be

1679
01:31:35,280 --> 01:31:37,240
Speaker 1: able to have the influence that we have. I mean,

1680
01:31:37,240 --> 01:31:40,360
Speaker 1: the Stephen Donziger thing seems to have looked. We can't speculate,

1681
01:31:40,400 --> 01:31:43,879
Speaker 1: but I do think that we drew significant amounts of attention.

1682
01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:46,400
Speaker 1: And then you did the live stream here at our set,

1683
01:31:46,479 --> 01:31:48,559
Speaker 1: and the next day the guy was released. I mean,

1684
01:31:48,600 --> 01:31:50,519
Speaker 1: same on on. There have been a lot of cases

1685
01:31:50,520 --> 01:31:52,680
Speaker 1: like this. I can't go into all the details, but

1686
01:31:52,720 --> 01:31:55,720
Speaker 1: I hear from people who are in power, not necessarily

1687
01:31:55,760 --> 01:31:58,200
Speaker 1: the Congress people themselves, but they're stabs who listen to

1688
01:31:58,280 --> 01:32:00,120
Speaker 1: our show and are like, this is I got this

1689
01:32:00,200 --> 01:32:03,559
Speaker 1: idea for this thing from you, and yeah, it's very edifying,

1690
01:32:03,640 --> 01:32:05,759
Speaker 1: and you guys support our work, our ability to continue

1691
01:32:05,760 --> 01:32:08,080
Speaker 1: to scale that up, especially heading into the midterms. So

1692
01:32:08,280 --> 01:32:10,160
Speaker 1: thank you for all of that. The premium link is

1693
01:32:10,160 --> 01:32:12,160
Speaker 1: down there in the description. Yep, love you guys, have

1694
01:32:12,200 --> 01:32:14,559
Speaker 1: a fantastic day, and we'll see you back here tomorrow. Tomorrow.