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Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. When we grieve, it's

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Speaker 1: not about simply placing our head in our hands and crying.

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Speaker 1: It's not about crying out to the heavens why did

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Speaker 1: this happen? There's so many elements to grief that look,

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Speaker 1: I could take a couple of hours in my own

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Speaker 1: way of talking about it, but I do know this.

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Speaker 1: We as humans are tactile. And what I mean is

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Speaker 1: that in order to confirm something in our minds, particularly

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Speaker 1: when it comes to death, there is this indwelling part

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Speaker 1: of us that wants to confirm it. We want to

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Speaker 1: know that that person that we love is in fact deceased,

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Speaker 1: and very basic level, the only way that we can

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Speaker 1: confirm that is if we touch them. They don't respond

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Speaker 1: when we touch them. They are cold, and if you've

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Speaker 1: never touched the dead, there's no other kind of cold

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Speaker 1: like the cold of the dead. That's why they use

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Speaker 1: terms in literature like the icy fingers of death. It's

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Speaker 1: something different, but it is confirmatory for us. And I

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Speaker 1: cannot imagine how hard it must be when you are

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Speaker 1: a parent and you lose a child that you are

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Speaker 1: not allowed to hold. Today, we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: a case just like this. We're family, We're prevented from cradling.

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Speaker 1: They're sweet deceased angel. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this

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Speaker 1: is body bags, Dave some stuff that we talk about

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Speaker 1: on body bags. It's easy for me to get caught

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Speaker 1: up in the science. That's always been a way as

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Speaker 1: a death investigator. I've protected myself and I've written about

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Speaker 1: this before. I wrote about it in my memoir. If

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Speaker 1: I could surround myself with the science that all of

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Speaker 1: the horror that I bore witness to, it somehow shielded me.

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Speaker 1: It shielded my mind and my soul. But every now

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Speaker 1: and then there's a case that comes across our desk

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Speaker 1: that really makes you question the world that we live in.

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Speaker 1: And today is a case such as this, and the

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Speaker 1: subject of this case his name was Isaiah, and it

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Speaker 1: is absolutely heartbreaking what we have found out.

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Speaker 2: A young couple, Jessica Ross and Trevion Isaiah Taylor. They

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Speaker 2: are the expecting parents. The pregnancy goes like normal full term.

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Speaker 2: I wonder how much their ages played into the doctors

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Speaker 2: and nursing staff paying attention to them. But here's what happened.

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Speaker 2: The baby's parents Jessica Ross and Trevion Isaiah Taylor are

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Speaker 2: twenty and twenty one years old. She's carried the baby

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Speaker 2: full term. They go in as delivery time. She's in

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Speaker 2: full labor at eight forty that night, she's in full labor.

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Speaker 2: At eight forty that night, problems start happening. It was

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Speaker 2: a regular vaginal delivery and the shoulders got stuck. They

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Speaker 2: had a fetal heartbeat monitor and the monitor showed by

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Speaker 2: nine twenty six, the heart rate showed abnormal and it

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Speaker 2: began to decrease from nine twenty six on the whole

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Speaker 2: time mom is pushing, the baby is stuck. Now there's

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Speaker 2: a term for baby's shoulders being stuck, but in this

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Speaker 2: particular case, the doctor chose a different path than what

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Speaker 2: is recommended.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing that this condition, and it's not like

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Speaker 1: this doesn't happen all right, it happens regularly. It's called

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Speaker 1: shouldered dystotia. And essentially what that means is that once

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Speaker 1: the child has begun to crown and has the head

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Speaker 1: has begun to move down the birth canal, the width

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Speaker 1: of the shoulders cannot be accommodated by the birth canal,

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Speaker 1: and so it's a real struggle, particularly in this point.

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Speaker 1: And this is a critical moment in TOM And there's

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Speaker 1: a procedure that many of our female listeners will be

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Speaker 1: familiar with that involves delivery, and it's called an episiotomy.

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Speaker 1: An episiotomy is when the delivery doctor, the obgyn, actually

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Speaker 1: makes a small incision and it's inferior to the birth

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Speaker 1: canal and this provides for wider opening. This is commonly done.

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Speaker 1: This is not something that is rare. It's not something

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Speaker 1: that hey, we need to call in a super duper

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Speaker 1: specialist to have this done, assuming at this point, because

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Speaker 1: we don't know more than this at this time, that

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Speaker 1: an episiotomy was performed in order to accommodate because they

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Speaker 1: were present the baby was presenting with dystocia, and they

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Speaker 1: were having no success whatsoever. And it was only that

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Speaker 1: last moment where I think that the doctor began to

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Speaker 1: panic because man, she's a pl and a tremendous amount

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Speaker 1: of pressure here to the head to try to deliver

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Speaker 1: the baby.

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Speaker 2: The amount of pressure and manipulation, head, neck, bones, broken, skull,

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Speaker 2: things were broken on this baby that should never have

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Speaker 2: been touched like this.

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Speaker 1: And suction, Yeah, and suction is common. It's and for

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Speaker 1: those that haven't seen it, there is a large suction cup,

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Speaker 1: if you will, that is applied to the top of

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Speaker 1: the head and this aids in the delivery as the

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Speaker 1: baby's being pulled forward. And this is a very gentle

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Speaker 1: procedure that's taking place, and delivery seems quite violent, but

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Speaker 1: it's going to happen. It's natural. And these professionals that

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Speaker 1: are guiding the mother through this process, you're coaching her

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Speaker 1: to push. She's been coached to push, and this is

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Speaker 1: done over and over and man This labor went on

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Speaker 1: for some time.

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Speaker 2: She was pushing at eight forty and even though the

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Speaker 2: abnervbal feedtl heartbe started showing in nine twenty six, she

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Speaker 2: continued to push. The doctor continued using traction and suction

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Speaker 2: on the baby, using manual manipulation to try to pull

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Speaker 2: the baby out. It wasn't until eleven forty nine that

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Speaker 2: they did an emergency C section and the baby's body

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Speaker 2: was delivered at twelve eleven am, but the baby's head

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Speaker 2: had to be delivered vaginally. The baby was decapitated. Now,

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Speaker 2: was the baby decapitated by the doctor or is there

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Speaker 2: another explanation for how a baby could die and be

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Speaker 2: beheaded inside the womb in uterow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's something that would be examined in a

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Speaker 1: post delivery, postpartum state. Because if you have, and I've

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Speaker 1: worked over the course of my career, I've worked a

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Speaker 1: lot of stillbirths. It all depends on the jurisdiction that

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Speaker 1: you're in as to whether or not they're going to

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Speaker 1: be reported to the corner of the medical examiner.

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Speaker 2: Okay, now you mentioned stillbirth. That's something a lot of

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Speaker 2: us are familiar with. As shocking as it is, I

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Speaker 2: don't know how you possibly explain it. But is there

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Speaker 2: a difference between what we're talking about here where we

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Speaker 2: have a baby, how is the baby going to look

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Speaker 2: and that is delivered this way versus a still birth?

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Speaker 1: Well, with stillbirths, there is many times, not every time,

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Speaker 1: please don't misinterpret this, but many times there will be

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Speaker 1: an awareness on the part of the practitioners and certainly

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Speaker 1: family members that the child has died in utero, which

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Speaker 1: means within the mother's body. And it's a very sad

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Speaker 1: event that occurs, and mother is still going to deliver,

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Speaker 1: and many times they deliver vaginally, but other times they

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Speaker 1: deliver these babies by sea section, and so what happens

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Speaker 1: is is that when you have a still birth, the

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Speaker 1: big question from a scientific standpoint that has to be

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Speaker 1: asked is why did this precious little one die? And

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Speaker 1: you have to have that answer because we're talking about

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Speaker 1: a mom and daddy that are twenty one and twenty

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Speaker 1: This is at the beginning of their lives essentially, and

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Speaker 1: you know that potentially they won't have a their children.

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Speaker 1: They might not con see this now I've lost a child,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to see yourself having another child. But with

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Speaker 1: in the case of a stillbirth, for instance, you want

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Speaker 1: to do a post mortem examination on the baby's remains

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Speaker 1: in a stillbirth because maybe there are some indicators developmental indicators,

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Speaker 1: you know, relative to the growth or the development that

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Speaker 1: has gone on as a child has developed in the womb.

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Speaker 1: So you have to examine that in a controlled environment

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Speaker 1: in the morgue, and generally the hospital pathologists will do

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Speaker 1: that and it's kind of a standard standard thing for

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Speaker 1: silburth's to be autopsy now in a case like this,

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Speaker 1: because if I remember, they had a heartbeat, so this

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Speaker 1: is not something that they would have had prior knowledge of,

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Speaker 1: Like it's not like they would come to them and say, listen,

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Speaker 1: we're sorry to inform you, but in this examination prior

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Speaker 1: to birth, we were not detecting a heartbeat. This is

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Speaker 1: very common for and I still remember to this day.

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Speaker 1: You're at the doctor's all and every time that you

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Speaker 1: have a sonogram done, it's such an exciting event because

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Speaker 1: you can hear the baby's heartbeat and it lets you

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Speaker 1: know that this precious little life is about to enter

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Speaker 1: into your life. And so there's no indicator here that

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Speaker 1: this child was dead in utero. So that brings us

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Speaker 1: to potential conclusion here that the events surrounding the death

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Speaker 1: are direct result of this pressure that was applied to

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Speaker 1: the child during delivery. And that's a horrible thing to consider. Here.

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Speaker 1: You have mama that's in this it's a precious time,

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Speaker 1: but she's very vulnerable. She's trying everything that she can

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Speaker 1: do to deliver this baby. She's being directed to deliver

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Speaker 1: the baby, she's being told to push, and this has

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Speaker 1: gone on for a protracted period of time. And sometime

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Speaker 1: into this you've already got this abnormality that's occurring with

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Speaker 1: the fetal heartbeat, and you know something is wrong, but

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Speaker 1: yet you persist in this, and I think sometimes judgments

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Speaker 1: get clouded, but there has to be a switch that

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Speaker 1: is flipped at some point in time where you understand

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Speaker 1: that the more force that is utilized, you're going to

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Speaker 1: do damage to a child. And listen, you've mentioned for

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Speaker 1: the forceps. There are any number of stories out there

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Speaker 1: where babies have been blinded. You have misshapen heads, that

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Speaker 1: sort of thing, and sometimes the skull. And this is

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Speaker 1: what makes it very this particular case so fascinating in

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Speaker 1: one sense, is that they're talking about the fracturing of bones.

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Speaker 1: And do you realize how much force has to be

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Speaker 1: applied to fracture a baby's bone Because the bones themselves,

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Speaker 1: both in the skull, there's not this fusion that has

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Speaker 1: necessarily this. They don't have these ossified bones like we

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Speaker 1: do as adults. They're very malleable. This fracturing has taken

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Speaker 1: place there and also in the neck, so that means

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Speaker 1: that tension is being applied, and it's being applied to

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Speaker 1: the degree that there has been. Unfortunately, a separation in

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Speaker 1: this particular case led to a decapitation. David, I have

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Speaker 1: a distinct memory of being present when my first child

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Speaker 1: was born in this precious child that's there, and suddenly

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Speaker 1: it dawns on you. You look around the room and you

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Speaker 1: you want somebody to tell you what's the next step.

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Speaker 1: At this point, what do I do? I don't want

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Speaker 1: to do harm my big clumsy self, you know, and

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking, what do I do? You know, what do

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Speaker 1: I do to guarantee that this child is going to

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Speaker 1: continue to survive outside the womb?

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Speaker 2: Well, I read this and saw that at eight forty

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Speaker 2: she was pushing, and nine twenty six, the fetal heartbeat

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Speaker 2: is going crazy. By eleven forty nine, they finally take

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Speaker 2: the baby back for a C section, but it's already over.

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Speaker 2: The baby is born body only by C section. Vaginally,

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Speaker 2: she delivers a head. But the nurses and doctor involved

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Speaker 2: in this birth, Joe, they actually prevented the mother and

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Speaker 2: father from knowing what was going on. I don't know

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Speaker 2: how they did it, but I do know how crazy

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Speaker 2: it is in a room when you've got a lot

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Speaker 2: of confusion. Of course, you've got a sea section going on.

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Speaker 2: The dad's not going to be in there for that,

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Speaker 2: it's just going to be the mother. She's surrounded with

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Speaker 2: nurses and a doctor, so I could see how they

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Speaker 2: would do this in such a way that mom and

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Speaker 2: dad do not see the baby, they don't know what

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Speaker 2: has happened. You and I know more about what happened

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Speaker 2: to that baby being beheaded than they did at the time,

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Speaker 2: and this is their baby. Nobody told them. I was

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Speaker 2: asking you about this because I was trying to understand

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Speaker 2: what was going on, and You've brought up a term

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Speaker 2: called maceration or macerated, and I was googling it when

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Speaker 2: you were telling me what it was because I don't

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Speaker 2: understand what we're actually physically dealing with.

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Speaker 1: That's the incredible part, and we have to step back

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Speaker 1: just for a second. Maceration can occur in any number

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Speaker 1: of different events, but when you're talking about with a

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Speaker 1: mother that delivers a child, particularly stillborn child that is macerated,

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Speaker 1: there will be it's almost like it's evidence of decomposition

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Speaker 1: in utero, and so it's almost confirmatory that the child

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Speaker 1: is dead. And maceration is also used sometimes by some

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Speaker 1: physicians to describe severe trauma where something is essentially broken down.

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Speaker 1: You'll hear them use the term a macerated liver sometimes

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Speaker 1: or a macerated kidney, and it's kind of a broadly

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Speaker 1: used term many times, particularly in forensic pathology. But that's

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Speaker 1: why it's so important. I think that once this occurs,

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Speaker 1: an event like this, you need more answers than simply

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Speaker 1: a hospital staff that tells you your baby didn't make it,

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Speaker 1: or whatever the case might be. And it's something that

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Speaker 1: really trusts me. And you know me well enough, Dave,

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Speaker 1: that what I'm about to say, it takes a lot

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Speaker 1: to make my skin crawl, but this information about the

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Speaker 1: presentation of the child's remains, this really does make my

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Speaker 1: skin crawl. And remember what I told you earlier about

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Speaker 1: that tactile thing that if you're a mama, you want

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Speaker 1: to touch your baby. You want to look at your baby.

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Speaker 1: You want to see the fingers and the toes. You

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Speaker 1: want to rub that little tommy. You want to pat

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Speaker 1: the head, kiss the forehead, all those things. From what

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Speaker 1: I'm understanding, that wasn't allowed here.

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Speaker 2: The shocking truth, Joe, is that this young couple was

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Speaker 2: lied to, and that's why there's a lawsuit. You mentioned touching.

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Speaker 2: You know, they do a thing now when a mother

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Speaker 2: gives birth, and it's called skin on skin time. It's

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Speaker 2: a bonding time for the mother and the baby to

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Speaker 2: just the two of them, skin on skin, and it's

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Speaker 2: a very sweet thing. And that's all this family wanted.

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Speaker 2: You were talking about that, I'm just thinking what they

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Speaker 2: were denied. But not only were they denied. They went

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Speaker 2: to the hospital expecting to have a baby, and they

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Speaker 2: came home with a not even a body. They actually

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Speaker 2: were lied to. And then when they said I've got

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Speaker 2: to see my baby, I know my baby's dead. I've

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Speaker 2: got to see my baby. Then staff they wrapped the

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Speaker 2: baby up in such a way with using blankets and whatnot,

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Speaker 2: so that the mother and father of this baby, baby Isaiah,

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Speaker 2: did not know that it had been decapitated. They did

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Speaker 2: not know that. Nobody at the hospital told them the

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Speaker 2: condition of their baby, Joe and the medical profession. Would

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Speaker 2: that not set off every alarm bel there is within

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Speaker 2: the hospital? This has just happened. A baby was decapitated.

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Speaker 2: This mother gave birth to a headless body by C

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Speaker 2: section vaginally. Ahead I mean, isn't there going to be

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Speaker 2: an examination right now, right here, calling in experts. We've

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Speaker 2: got to know what happened.

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Speaker 1: You would think so. And I've heard a couple of

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Speaker 1: stories relative to this, and I'm sure that as the

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Speaker 1: lawsuit develops, will hear more. But one version has it

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Speaker 1: that mom and day daddy were allowed only to view

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Speaker 1: the child through glass. And then on top of that,

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Speaker 1: the lawsuit actually alleges that, and remember we're talking about

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Speaker 1: a twenty and twenty one year old mama and daddy,

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Speaker 1: they were directed to forego an autopsy and to have

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Speaker 1: the baby cremated.

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Speaker 2: Joe, it's even worse than forego the autopsy. They were

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Speaker 2: told to their face they wanted an autopsy. We want

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Speaker 2: to know what happened to our baby. And the hospital said, well,

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Speaker 2: you're not entitled to a free autopsy. You don't qualify

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Speaker 2: for that.

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Speaker 1: I'm not trying to dismiss the trauma of a miscarriage,

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Speaker 1: however you're talking about. And I've seen pictures of the

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Speaker 1: mama displaying her belly and smiling. It's the sweetest thing.

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Speaker 1: You've got a child that has gone to term, Dave,

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Speaker 1: and you have no explanation as to why they have died,

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Speaker 1: and they're telling you, no, you can't have an autopsy.

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Speaker 1: So let me go a step further with this in

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Speaker 1: my medical legal forensics mind. So, doctor, how are you

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Speaker 1: going to sign the certificate? What are you going to

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Speaker 1: put down as your fatal diagnosis. You know, when you

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Speaker 1: look at a death certificate, there's under a cause, there's

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Speaker 1: like three of them. You have the primary, and then

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Speaker 1: there's a secondary, and then there's the third below that,

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Speaker 1: and they'll list those and they're bulleted like that one, two, three,

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Speaker 1: and then of course you have the manner. The manner

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Speaker 1: is you know, one of the five and I can

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Speaker 1: tell you what it ain't. It ain't a natural death.

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Speaker 1: This is not a natural death. And one of the

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Speaker 1: things that's always fascinated me when working in the medical

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Speaker 1: legal community, when things happen at hospitals and they are

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Speaker 1: at the hand of staff at a hospital, it's like

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Speaker 1: there's this cushion that is created. And they use this term,

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Speaker 1: and some people may have heard it, that's called dig

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Speaker 1: This a medical misadventure, a medical misadventure describes it's kind

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Speaker 1: of a very soft thing to say, oh, it was

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Speaker 1: a misadventure that led to the death of a child,

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Speaker 1: or you will have these stories about where some physician

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Speaker 1: amputates the wrong limb. That's a medical misadventure. But you know,

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Speaker 1: in the case of a death, there are things that

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Speaker 1: occur while people are on the job and they bring

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Speaker 1: about the death of another human being. Now, I guess

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Speaker 1: you could call it an accident in the world of

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Speaker 1: medical legal death investigation, but you know what, a DA

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Speaker 1: would call it manslaughter. Here's the thing about general public

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Speaker 1: when it comes to death. They don't know anything. They

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Speaker 1: don't and they shouldn't. I don't want the general public

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Speaker 1: to know a lot. I'm not saying that in a

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Speaker 1: nefarious way. There's people like me that have to deal

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Speaker 1: with death day in and day out. If you're a

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Speaker 1: twenty one year old and a twenty year old mom

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Speaker 1: and daddy, you shouldn't be thinking about death. It should

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Speaker 1: be the color of the nursery, or do I have

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Speaker 1: the right car seat, or do I have enough diapers.

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Speaker 1: It's very frustrating, it truly is. And so when you're

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Speaker 1: in that position, you know who you're dependent upon. You're

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Speaker 1: dependent upon the medical staff to give you the correct advice.

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Speaker 1: What's the next step that we take. People think about

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Speaker 1: funeral homes. They rarely have ever think about autopsies. But

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Speaker 1: in this particular case, Dave, a post Mormon examination is

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Speaker 1: in fact required.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know that. I thought it was on the

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Speaker 2: parents to demand it.

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Speaker 1: Let's say, for instance, you have stillbirth. The corner or

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Speaker 1: the medical examiners are not going to do in most cases,

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Speaker 1: is not going to do an autopsy on stillbirth. They're

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Speaker 1: just not. They'll leave that to the hospital pathologists because

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Speaker 1: the hospital has been following the course of treatment. You're attending,

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Speaker 1: has been following your course of treatment, so they've got

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Speaker 1: everything on the ready. There there's no indication that nothing

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Speaker 1: nefarious has happened. However, let's just say it plainly, what's

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Speaker 1: the answer here, Well, this case should in fact have

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Speaker 1: been reported to the medical legal authorities, given the nature

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Speaker 1: of what is being stated in the lawsuit, that this

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Speaker 1: is actually what happened, that we had a heartbeat, and

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Speaker 1: now the child is decapitated and deceased, and so the

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Speaker 1: family is being told that, well, you don't qualify for

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Speaker 1: an autopsy, according to the lawsuit, And so they go

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Speaker 1: out and they raise money for it. They cobble together

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Speaker 1: whatever they can. Twenty five hundred bucks is generally, I've

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Speaker 1: seen them go all the way up to five thousand.

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Speaker 1: It all depends on how much has to be done

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Speaker 1: for what's referred to as a private autopsy. And there

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Speaker 1: are any number of pathologists out there that can do them.

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Speaker 1: Most of the time, you can find a hospital pathologist

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Speaker 1: that will do it. You pay them that money, that

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Speaker 1: will do the examination. They'll do all of the microscopic slides.

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Speaker 1: If it necessitates some kind of chemistries, they'll have those performed,

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Speaker 1: all of that sort of thing. But they have found

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Speaker 1: somebody to do this. And I'm not saying that they're relieved,

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Speaker 1: because I have no no way of putting myself in

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Speaker 1: these poor people's minds. But at least I can only

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Speaker 1: imagine at least they think that I'm going to have

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Speaker 1: somebody give me some answers as to what happens. Now.

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Speaker 1: I remember the last time that they see this baby,

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Speaker 1: the baby has been presented to them wrapped up with

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Speaker 1: its head appearing at least giving the appearance the head

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Speaker 1: is still attached to the body. If this case couldn't

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Speaker 1: be any worse, Dave, it actually gets worse. It truly does.

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Speaker 1: And I'm beside myself right now. Just please fill in

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Speaker 1: the blanks for me here and help our friends here

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Speaker 1: understand that are out here listening.

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Speaker 2: The hospital told Jessica Ross and Trevion Isaiah Taylor that

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Speaker 2: they did not qualify for a free autopsy, and they

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Speaker 2: encourage them to have the baby cremated. Now, Ross and

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Speaker 2: Taylor opted to have a funeral. Isaiah was then sent

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Speaker 2: to a funeral home. But remember, at this point, Ross

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Speaker 2: and Taylor had seen baby Isaiah through a window, and

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Speaker 2: when they saw him, his head had been placed on

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Speaker 2: his body and wrapped with a blanket in such a

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Speaker 2: way to disguise the fact that he had been beheaded.

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Speaker 2: So Ross and Taylor don't know their baby has been beheaded.

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Speaker 2: It was only after Willie A. Watkins's funeral home notified

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Speaker 2: Ross and Taylor that the baby had been decapitated by

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Speaker 2: the way. While the hospital did notify the Medical Examiner's

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Speaker 2: Office of baby Isaiah's death. The Medical Examiner's Office says

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Speaker 2: in a statement that they were not aware of the

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Speaker 2: circumstances surrounding the baby's death until they were notified by

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Speaker 2: Willie A. Watkins's funeral home. Now, with information from the

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Speaker 2: funeral home, Jessica Ross signs a contract with doctor Jackson

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Speaker 2: Gates to do an autopsy of baby Isaiah for twenty

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Speaker 2: five hundred dollars. This is a standard price for an

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Speaker 2: independent autopsy. What is not standard is what happened next.

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Speaker 2: Jessica Ross and Trevy and Isaiah Taylor were notified by

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Speaker 2: family member that doctor Gates posted an image of their

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Speaker 2: newborn's decapitated head on Instagram.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Gates claimed the pictures and video of the decapitated

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Speaker 2: baby were for educational purposes and the doctor Gates did

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Speaker 2: not name the baby in the pictures. Attorney Rodrick Edman,

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Speaker 2: who is a medical doctor as well as respected trial

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Speaker 2: lawyer and represents Ross and Taylor, he asked the question, quote,

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Speaker 2: what educational value is it to anybody to view a

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Speaker 2: picture of a decavitated baby? Unquote?

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Speaker 1: Now.

404
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Speaker 2: Gates took down the original post after getting a seasoned

405
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Speaker 2: desist letter, but two days later, two more videos from

406
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Speaker 2: the newborn's autopsy were published at gates Instagram page, and

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Speaker 2: that included the autopsy of the chest cavity of the

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Speaker 2: child and the cranial cavity of the child. His Instagram page,

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Speaker 2: by the way, has several posts from other autopsies that

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Speaker 2: he's conducted. Gates says that he does not disclose the

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Speaker 2: identity of the individuals he posts, but remember, he didn't

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Speaker 2: get permission from Ross and Taylor to post the pictures.

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Speaker 2: And video. Edmunds, their attorney, said, what community or country

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Speaker 2: do we live in where somebody can form the words

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Speaker 2: and say it's okay to post photos of a decavitated baby.

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Speaker 2: That's filling in the blanks.

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Speaker 1: Joel. You know, I've talked about how the dead, though

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Speaker 1: they're not regarded as persons any longer, the dead are

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Speaker 1: the most vulnerable among us because the dead, first off,

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Speaker 1: you can say anything about the dead you want to,

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Speaker 1: and because they can't defend themselves, and that's why there

422
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Speaker 1: are laws on the books about desecration of human remains,

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Speaker 1: abuses of human remains, and this fully qualifies as far

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Speaker 1: as I'm concerned, if we are to believe what has

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Speaker 1: been alleged in this suit and what the family has

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Speaker 1: put forward, because it is the type of thing that

427
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Speaker 1: would be saw off putting by people in the future

428
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Speaker 1: that if they're faced with the prospect of wanting to

429
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Speaker 1: have an autopsy performed on one of their loved ones,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh. You know, you sit there and you think, well,

431
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 1: is this what happens? Is this the example, the professional

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00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: example that's put forth because we are trusting you with

433
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 1: the most precious thing that we have and literally we

434
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 1: have nothing, that we've given everything at this point in time,

435
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: we want to know what happened. And I saw one

436
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: newspaper headline I think that stated putting salt in a wound,

437
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: which in the old days that was a foreign of torture.

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Speaker 1: And I can't It's hard for me to imagine. And

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00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 1: I've heard other stories over the years about things that

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00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,400
Speaker 1: have been done in More's horrible things, but in this

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Speaker 1: particular case, I cannot imagine under any circumstance why you

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00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 1: would want to do this. And plus who, who in

443
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: the hell are you educating? By the way, are you

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00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,239
Speaker 1: Are you at an institution of higher learning? Is that

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00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: what you're doing? Are you putting this out there just

446
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: from a salacious standpoint? I mean, I talk about death

447
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,199
Speaker 1: all the time, but I'm not one that's going to

448
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 1: be pushing out these horrific images of something like this

449
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: that is somebody's precious little one on display for the

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00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: whole world. And so I really question this. I think

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Speaker 1: that it will be interesting to see how of this develops.

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Speaker 1: But I got to say this, Dave, if there is

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Speaker 1: anybody within the sound of my voice that ever offers

454
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: up prayers, I think that this family in particular has

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Speaker 1: a great need. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is

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Speaker 1: Bodybacks