WEBVTT - Don Was 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:21.956 Pushkin. Dear friend of the show, Don Was has had 0:00:21.996 --> 0:00:25.636 a remarkable career, moving between different corners of the music world. 0:00:25.796 --> 0:00:28.316 In the nineteen eighties, he fronted the Eclectic band Was 0:00:29.316 --> 0:00:33.396 mixing funk, rock and pop in unexpected ways. As a producer, 0:00:33.396 --> 0:00:35.516 who's helped shape landmark albums for artists like the b 0:00:35.636 --> 0:00:38.316 fifty two's and Bonnie Raid, her album Luck of the Draw, 0:00:38.356 --> 0:00:40.756 which she produced, featured the hit something to Talk About 0:00:40.796 --> 0:00:43.996 and marked a major turning point in her career. Over 0:00:44.036 --> 0:00:45.796 the years, he's worked with Bob Dylan and become a 0:00:45.836 --> 0:00:48.996 regular producer for the Rolling Stones. For the past decade, 0:00:49.156 --> 0:00:52.356 don has led Blue Note Records as its president, bringing 0:00:52.396 --> 0:00:55.476 new energy to the story jazz label, and he's also 0:00:55.556 --> 0:00:58.556 just released his own album, Groove in the Face of Adversity, 0:00:58.796 --> 0:01:01.236 a tribute to Detroit and the music that came out 0:01:01.276 --> 0:01:04.356 of the city where he grew up. On today's episode, 0:01:04.436 --> 0:01:06.996 I talked to Don Was about his wide ranging career 0:01:07.196 --> 0:01:09.756 and why his new album is his first onunder his name. 0:01:10.756 --> 0:01:13.156 He also talks about how working with musical heroes like 0:01:13.196 --> 0:01:16.036 Willie Nelson, Leonard Cohen, and Brian Wilson in the nineties 0:01:16.116 --> 0:01:19.956 initially shut down his own creative ambitions and reflects on 0:01:19.956 --> 0:01:21.876 his time at Blue Note, and I was experienced as 0:01:21.916 --> 0:01:24.476 a toying artist himself. Now allows him to relate to 0:01:24.516 --> 0:01:30.556 the label's roster in a completely different way. This is 0:01:30.636 --> 0:01:40.636 broken record, real musicians, real conversations. Here's my conversation with 0:01:40.836 --> 0:01:45.676 Don was, Well, you have a new record out, like 0:01:45.756 --> 0:01:47.916 the first, your first record in a long time. 0:01:47.956 --> 0:01:49.676 It's the first record I ever put my name on 0:01:49.836 --> 0:01:52.476 as an artist. Even it was not was I was 0:01:52.756 --> 0:01:53.876 hiding behind the band. 0:01:56.356 --> 0:01:57.396 Why now? 0:01:57.916 --> 0:02:00.076 I don't know why? You know why not? It's a 0:02:00.156 --> 0:02:02.756 series of I wish I could tell you there was 0:02:02.756 --> 0:02:05.516 a master plan to it, but it was a series 0:02:05.556 --> 0:02:08.636 of random events. Terrence Blanchard's a good buddy of mine, 0:02:08.676 --> 0:02:12.716 and he was curating a series at the for the 0:02:12.716 --> 0:02:16.516 Detroit Symphony Orchestra. It's called the Paradise Valley Jazz, Paradise 0:02:16.596 --> 0:02:20.036 Valley being the black area of the city where all 0:02:20.076 --> 0:02:24.876 the great music happened before urban renewal. And so he 0:02:24.876 --> 0:02:26.996 asked if I wanted to play a night. He asked 0:02:26.996 --> 0:02:29.796 me two years before the show, and I said, yeah, sure, 0:02:31.396 --> 0:02:35.116 six months before. Jesus, I don't have a band. I 0:02:35.116 --> 0:02:37.716 don't have songs? What am I going to do? So 0:02:37.756 --> 0:02:41.196 I started thinking back to what I tell artists in 0:02:41.236 --> 0:02:46.196 the similar situation, but I suggest to them, which really 0:02:46.236 --> 0:02:48.756 stems from an experience I had in the early nineties 0:02:48.876 --> 0:02:52.356 where in very rapid succession I got to work with 0:02:52.436 --> 0:02:57.796 my greatest heroes Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen, Brian Wilson, Willie Nelson, 0:02:57.916 --> 0:03:03.596 Chris Christofferson, and Macon Keith. And a byproduct of that 0:03:04.556 --> 0:03:07.396 was that it gave me writer's block. For about five years, 0:03:07.636 --> 0:03:09.436 I just every time I sat down at the piano, 0:03:09.476 --> 0:03:11.636 I'd go for ten seconds and think, well, what is 0:03:11.676 --> 0:03:14.276 the point of me doing this? When Brian Wilson is 0:03:14.316 --> 0:03:16.516 down the street and let's just let's just take him 0:03:16.596 --> 0:03:18.996 the lyric. Right about five years into it, I was 0:03:19.036 --> 0:03:21.836 in a studio with Willy Nelson, again lamenting the fact 0:03:21.956 --> 0:03:25.356 that I could never be Willie Nelson, and then boom, 0:03:25.476 --> 0:03:28.436 a voice went off and said, but Willie Nelson can 0:03:28.476 --> 0:03:31.116 never be you. He didn't drop acid and go see 0:03:31.116 --> 0:03:34.836 the MC five of the Grandy Ballroom, George Clinton and 0:03:34.876 --> 0:03:38.356 the Parliaments, didn't play a sock hop at his ninth 0:03:38.396 --> 0:03:42.556 grade school dance in in the gym, which that did happen. 0:03:44.156 --> 0:03:47.156 The Parliament still there. They were out promoting I just 0:03:47.196 --> 0:03:51.796 want to testify. And in those days, a legal form 0:03:51.796 --> 0:03:55.796 of paola was the DJ at the big Top forty 0:03:55.836 --> 0:04:00.236 stations would get paid to MC a school dance and 0:04:00.236 --> 0:04:01.996 if you wanted to get played on a show, you'd 0:04:01.996 --> 0:04:04.476 go and play for free and lip sync your record. 0:04:05.076 --> 0:04:07.316 So he was he was bringing a show to the school, 0:04:07.356 --> 0:04:09.116 but he was keeping all the bread. And that's why 0:04:09.196 --> 0:04:10.196 you got your record play. 0:04:10.236 --> 0:04:11.636 And the original version of that song. 0:04:11.796 --> 0:04:14.796 Yeah, yeah, they were. It was a five piece vocal 0:04:15.076 --> 0:04:20.036 group like the Temptations, but they were they were dressed 0:04:20.076 --> 0:04:24.436 like hippies, not in tuxedos. And it was it was 0:04:24.556 --> 0:04:29.036 synchronous with Hendrix. It wasn't before him, but you know, 0:04:29.476 --> 0:04:32.636 you had to have that that that movement, that that 0:04:33.156 --> 0:04:38.396 kind of fashion to dress that way. So synchronous. Uh, 0:04:38.676 --> 0:04:41.156 there's something in the zeitgeist of R and B and 0:04:41.196 --> 0:04:44.716 blues that created Hendrix and George Clinton and plus George 0:04:44.716 --> 0:04:48.156 Clinton was going to see the m C five in Detroit. 0:04:48.356 --> 0:04:51.076 He was going to see the Stooges in Detroit, and 0:04:51.716 --> 0:04:55.316 he understood that probably wud be good to incorporate that 0:04:55.356 --> 0:04:58.516 which is how Funkadelic comes about as more of a 0:04:58.636 --> 0:05:01.196 rock and roll band or anything. But but then he 0:05:01.316 --> 0:05:05.876 was just it's like a hippie doop group. It's so. 0:05:07.396 --> 0:05:10.436 It's amazing, but you but to your point, yes, to 0:05:10.476 --> 0:05:13.316 my point, yeah, yeah, I. 0:05:13.196 --> 0:05:17.276 Thought he didn't eat. That's not his background. So usually 0:05:17.316 --> 0:05:19.796 in the music business, the thing that makes you different 0:05:19.956 --> 0:05:23.196 from everybody else is considered a marketing lightmare. You know, 0:05:23.716 --> 0:05:26.116 how do we market this? It's not just like everything 0:05:26.116 --> 0:05:29.676 else that's out there. But I've come to view it 0:05:29.716 --> 0:05:32.556 as your superpower. It's really the only chance you have 0:05:32.796 --> 0:05:36.116 is to be different from everybody else and approach the 0:05:36.956 --> 0:05:40.556 whole sensibility of your music and all the theme of 0:05:40.596 --> 0:05:44.876 it from a unique perspective. Otherwise, what are you? What 0:05:44.996 --> 0:05:47.756 have you got? You just copy and other people. So 0:05:48.116 --> 0:05:53.476 when so, I've always encouraged artists I was producing to 0:05:53.516 --> 0:05:57.836 be extremely them, And so when it came time to 0:05:57.876 --> 0:06:00.236 put this band together, I thought, all right, well, what 0:06:00.356 --> 0:06:04.716 are you? I'm some yob from Detroit, right, So I 0:06:04.836 --> 0:06:08.236 called eight other musicians that I've known for a long 0:06:08.276 --> 0:06:10.996 time and I've played with, you know throughout the years 0:06:11.156 --> 0:06:13.796 who grew up listening to the same radio stations as 0:06:13.836 --> 0:06:17.076 me played in the same bars, all people from Detroit, 0:06:17.116 --> 0:06:19.556 all people who still live in Detroit, and I'm the 0:06:19.556 --> 0:06:22.956 only one who's a part time residence in Troia. And 0:06:22.996 --> 0:06:24.956 we got in a room together. This is just to 0:06:24.996 --> 0:06:28.316 see we could play together, to do this Terence Blanchard thing, 0:06:29.796 --> 0:06:33.276 And after about ten minutes, it was like, oh, hold 0:06:33.316 --> 0:06:35.916 on a second, man, this is this is something more 0:06:36.036 --> 0:06:40.276 than a bargain for where we really speak a common 0:06:40.836 --> 0:06:43.756 musical language, which is kind of the sound of Detroit, 0:06:44.076 --> 0:06:47.036 kind of growing up in Detroit. And it was clear 0:06:47.036 --> 0:06:49.676 from the first day that we should probably do more 0:06:49.756 --> 0:06:51.836 than the one show. So we booked a whole tour 0:06:52.116 --> 0:06:56.196 and turned it's not turned into five or six tours. 0:06:56.236 --> 0:06:59.396 And he'd been to Japan, went there and played a 0:06:59.436 --> 0:07:02.596 couple of months ago. We got six weeks coming up 0:07:02.636 --> 0:07:05.756 in January and February, and then we put on an 0:07:05.756 --> 0:07:09.836 album and it's it's now a thing. It's it's gone 0:07:09.836 --> 0:07:15.276 from being a one off to be in a nine 0:07:15.316 --> 0:07:18.236 piece band with an identity based on the characters and 0:07:18.316 --> 0:07:21.996 the band. If if one of them is sick, we 0:07:22.036 --> 0:07:24.476 can't call us ub anymore. Now it's just like, Wow, 0:07:25.236 --> 0:07:30.316 we just got to cancel because this is it's the 0:07:30.356 --> 0:07:33.716 sound of these nine people from Detroit playing together. 0:07:33.596 --> 0:07:35.796 And is the material on the is the material on 0:07:35.836 --> 0:07:37.476 the album? Is that stuff that you guys have been 0:07:37.476 --> 0:07:39.436 playing over the last few tours or. 0:07:39.716 --> 0:07:41.796 Yeah, we've been playing it. It really was kind of 0:07:41.956 --> 0:07:44.316 some of it was haphazard, like choose from the cameo 0:07:44.436 --> 0:07:45.316 song insane. 0:07:46.076 --> 0:07:48.636 Yeah, come on, that was a that was incredible. 0:07:48.796 --> 0:07:52.476 I was so surprised. Well, I was just it was 0:07:52.796 --> 0:07:55.956 that was actually that was recorded the first day we 0:07:56.036 --> 0:07:59.356 played it at the first rehearsal we had. We recorded. 0:07:59.596 --> 0:08:03.276 We rehearsed at a studio called rust Belt and Detroit. 0:08:03.156 --> 0:08:04.316 To go into make the album. 0:08:04.356 --> 0:08:06.956 You rehearse. This was just the first day we got 0:08:06.956 --> 0:08:09.076 together to play. There was just a room where a 0:08:09.276 --> 0:08:13.196 comfortable and thankfully Al Sutton, who owns the joint, he 0:08:13.396 --> 0:08:17.036 put up some mics and that version insane is from 0:08:17.636 --> 0:08:19.956 it's maybe the second time through it or something like that, 0:08:20.076 --> 0:08:22.956 and we just did it to see what kind of 0:08:22.956 --> 0:08:27.036 breadth we would have stylistically, how how far, how many 0:08:27.036 --> 0:08:30.916 directions can we move in and how how wide a 0:08:30.956 --> 0:08:34.636 path can we curve, you know, And so that was 0:08:34.676 --> 0:08:37.756 one end of the extreme and it just it just 0:08:37.756 --> 0:08:40.316 felt so natural to play that, and it felt like 0:08:41.316 --> 0:08:43.836 a lot like what the grooves from I was and 0:08:43.916 --> 0:08:46.156 I was, so, you know, it's the eighties. 0:08:46.396 --> 0:08:49.076 That's what I was gonna. So the coolest thing about 0:08:49.076 --> 0:08:52.316 the record to me is it feels very different from 0:08:52.756 --> 0:08:55.316 Midnight Marterers, which is the first song on the album, 0:08:55.436 --> 0:09:00.116 to take to Insane. But what I loved was like 0:09:00.396 --> 0:09:03.476 if you listen to Insane, which is the last song 0:09:03.476 --> 0:09:13.836 on the album, and then you just rolled into something 0:09:13.876 --> 0:09:16.356 from the course was. 0:09:16.316 --> 0:09:20.156 Not was album very good? Yeah? Yeah, it's almost the 0:09:20.196 --> 0:09:20.596 same beat. 0:09:20.636 --> 0:09:22.396 Yeah, it was like this really cool book end for 0:09:23.036 --> 0:09:24.356 all you according music thus far. 0:09:24.636 --> 0:09:28.756 Yeah, no, it What was kind of cool was the 0:09:28.556 --> 0:09:31.756 the trombone player in the band, Vincent Chandler, who's the 0:09:31.836 --> 0:09:33.996 he's the head of the jazz studies program at Wayne 0:09:34.076 --> 0:09:36.316 State University. He was not in was that was a 0:09:36.316 --> 0:09:39.276 couple of guys Dave McMurray and Luis Resto are on 0:09:39.396 --> 0:09:41.556 that wreck that outcome the Freaks that you just played 0:09:41.556 --> 0:09:46.196 there but wasn't But he knew how we arranged horns, 0:09:46.316 --> 0:09:48.116 and he came up with the horn line for Insane. 0:09:48.156 --> 0:09:50.796 It was just like it was right out of there 0:09:50.996 --> 0:09:53.596 was not was songbook, so we thought, all right, well 0:09:53.636 --> 0:09:56.996 we can do this, and and then we worked on 0:09:57.036 --> 0:10:00.116 a Henry Threadgill song called I Can't Wait Till I 0:10:00.116 --> 0:10:04.516 Get Home. Kenny Barron wrote that Newbie and Lady song, 0:10:04.596 --> 0:10:08.356 He's just a flatief recorded yeah, and then this Midnight 0:10:08.396 --> 0:10:12.036 Marauners that they're all, yeah, there's a lot of breadth 0:10:12.076 --> 0:10:13.956 to it, but I think it's all tied together. It's 0:10:13.956 --> 0:10:16.996 clearly one band. Actually the record is half from live 0:10:17.356 --> 0:10:21.036 shows and half from studio, and some you're a little 0:10:21.076 --> 0:10:24.636 calmer in the studio. You don't have the audience giving 0:10:24.676 --> 0:10:27.236 you this energy, and so on three of the songs 0:10:27.316 --> 0:10:30.596 they were just better won't played them live, so we 0:10:30.716 --> 0:10:33.716 use that version. But three of them, like Midnight Marauders, 0:10:33.796 --> 0:10:36.356 is a good example where it's a hypnotic groove and 0:10:36.396 --> 0:10:38.836 you don't want to get too excited. So the calm 0:10:38.916 --> 0:10:42.076 the studio I think was beneficial. But we still set 0:10:42.156 --> 0:10:44.996 up the same way we set up to play live, 0:10:45.316 --> 0:10:48.076 and we didn't we didn't really overdub. Maybe some hand 0:10:48.076 --> 0:10:50.836 claps or you know, a couple of background vocals doubled 0:10:50.916 --> 0:10:55.356 up or something, but it was so live in the 0:10:55.396 --> 0:10:57.596 studio or live on record, it seemed to have some 0:10:57.876 --> 0:11:01.036 unity to it, and that's what this band sounds like. Yeah. 0:11:01.236 --> 0:11:03.156 It made me start to think too about the connection 0:11:03.276 --> 0:11:06.916 between jazz and funk a little bit too, because I 0:11:06.956 --> 0:11:08.876 mean listening to it and there's like a really strong 0:11:09.196 --> 0:11:12.116 second line feel to it. You know, I don't really 0:11:12.156 --> 0:11:15.556 ever thought it through, but to the degree that you 0:11:15.596 --> 0:11:18.956 know zig Aboo from from the Meters, you know, like 0:11:19.156 --> 0:11:22.036 probably grew up with that second line. New Orleans was 0:11:22.316 --> 0:11:24.836 a big is a big ingredient funk, it seems to me. 0:11:25.356 --> 0:11:28.596 Yeah, well absolutely well Africa is right, so it's all 0:11:29.316 --> 0:11:34.836 you get regional derivations of it. Yeah, But I think 0:11:34.876 --> 0:11:37.236 that one of the things that makes you Detroit unique 0:11:37.316 --> 0:11:40.916 is that after World War Two, people from all over 0:11:40.956 --> 0:11:43.356 the world came there to work in the auto factories, 0:11:43.636 --> 0:11:46.676 and they brought their cultures with them. So we had 0:11:46.796 --> 0:11:49.836 everything when we were growing up, not just funk, not 0:11:49.876 --> 0:11:53.196 just New Orleans, but we had polka's, you know, you 0:11:53.236 --> 0:11:56.916 could hear every kind of music. You know. I think 0:11:56.956 --> 0:12:03.396 it's the the largest era of American community in the country, certainly, 0:12:03.996 --> 0:12:08.956 and so all that quarter tone stuff and which does 0:12:09.356 --> 0:12:11.956 up in our music too. And especially in the horn lines. 0:12:11.996 --> 0:12:14.236 I think we did a song called carrying Me Back 0:12:14.276 --> 0:12:16.516 to Morocco, which there wasn't I was song. We started 0:12:16.516 --> 0:12:19.476 playing it live and it's very much got that bende 0:12:20.156 --> 0:12:22.996 kind of sound. Also it set was I was up 0:12:23.076 --> 0:12:25.916 really well to be the backup band for Chevrahaled. We 0:12:26.236 --> 0:12:31.116 made some you know, Chevaled, he's a Algerian rye music singer, 0:12:32.196 --> 0:12:35.116 being chevs like being MC. It's a title means a 0:12:35.156 --> 0:12:37.076 young woman or something like that, and it's a style 0:12:37.116 --> 0:12:41.636 of music. I came out of Algeria and Morocco in 0:12:41.876 --> 0:12:45.916 late eighties early nineties, and I became a fan of 0:12:45.916 --> 0:12:48.476 it because they were sticking eight o eights and you know, 0:12:48.716 --> 0:12:51.276 they were putting some synthesizer things in there, but it 0:12:51.316 --> 0:12:56.756 was quartertone music and it's it's you know, if you 0:12:57.076 --> 0:13:01.356 took the lyrics apart, it's not really like two live crew. 0:13:01.436 --> 0:13:04.916 You know, it's pretty pretty old stuff. But it was 0:13:04.996 --> 0:13:09.916 quite controversial in the fundamentalist country, and they came after 0:13:09.956 --> 0:13:14.116 these guys and killed a lot of the musicians and 0:13:14.116 --> 0:13:18.396 now had to kind of flee to France. So Chevale 0:13:19.196 --> 0:13:24.876 was living in France and making really cool records. But 0:13:25.876 --> 0:13:31.276 he just he ran into tremendous racism there for being Algerian. Yeah, 0:13:31.876 --> 0:13:34.036 so they didn't really play him on the radio. In fact, 0:13:34.036 --> 0:13:39.076 they had laws about how much Arabic language content you 0:13:39.076 --> 0:13:41.636 could have on the French radio station. See it limited 0:13:41.636 --> 0:13:47.436 for like four hours a day. Yeah, it was crazy, man. 0:13:48.756 --> 0:13:53.076 So the Barkley Records in the late eighties put us 0:13:53.076 --> 0:13:55.156 together just because I was a fan, wasn't I was. 0:13:55.236 --> 0:13:59.076 We played in Paris and I met him and we 0:13:59.156 --> 0:14:02.116 clicked and I loved what he was doing. So he 0:14:02.156 --> 0:14:04.676 came to La and we cut with a couple of 0:14:04.716 --> 0:14:07.076 guys in his band and some of the guys from 0:14:07.236 --> 0:14:10.796 Was and I was wet song called d D That 0:14:10.876 --> 0:14:13.956 was one of the things we cut that started getting 0:14:13.996 --> 0:14:18.036 played in Ibiza one summer when in August when everyone's 0:14:18.076 --> 0:14:21.476 on holiday, when France closes down. So they came back. 0:14:21.516 --> 0:14:23.956 That was like the song of the of the of 0:14:23.996 --> 0:14:28.436 their vacation. So it became a really big record, and 0:14:28.476 --> 0:14:33.876 they had to repeal the law limiting Arabic language content. 0:14:34.676 --> 0:14:38.836 I think it probably they probably put it back, but 0:14:39.076 --> 0:14:41.596 for a minute we changed things and it was an 0:14:41.636 --> 0:14:44.796 Arabic language song that went to number one in France. 0:14:44.956 --> 0:14:49.836 And I didn't know it at the time, but turns 0:14:49.876 --> 0:14:52.756 out it kind of changed. It was the Sergeant Pepper 0:14:53.036 --> 0:14:57.796 of the genre. Everyone heard it and because it mixed 0:14:58.076 --> 0:15:03.116 American R and B and funk with the Algerian music. 0:15:03.476 --> 0:15:05.396 But for us it made perfect sense because we grew 0:15:05.476 --> 0:15:08.076 up hearing that music all the time in Detroit, so 0:15:08.156 --> 0:15:11.156 that that's just all those things seeped in and created 0:15:12.076 --> 0:15:12.916 a certain feel. 0:15:13.036 --> 0:15:14.916 I mean, you know that was was so cool for 0:15:14.956 --> 0:15:19.596 that reason, man, just the breadth of things you guys 0:15:19.596 --> 0:15:22.356 were able to just fit into, even you know, even 0:15:22.436 --> 0:15:29.676 doing the the the Richard pryor you know, like and 0:15:29.756 --> 0:15:31.036 it was not Jean Chandler but. 0:15:31.036 --> 0:15:39.636 Uh Uhlan wild. Yeah, like, yeah, that's wild that we 0:15:39.756 --> 0:15:42.276 got to make a music video with the two of them. 0:15:42.276 --> 0:15:45.876 It's crazy. And you guys are really the perfect, you 0:15:45.876 --> 0:15:47.836 know group for that, I would say, you know, because 0:15:47.916 --> 0:15:50.556 you guys are like just so so eclectic and just 0:15:50.796 --> 0:15:51.956 you know, you know. 0:15:51.916 --> 0:15:57.676 I think people's taste runs along those lines. Genres are 0:15:57.716 --> 0:16:02.316 good for organizing record stores. If you can find one, 0:16:03.676 --> 0:16:06.076 It's a great way to get to what you're looking for. 0:16:07.076 --> 0:16:11.276 It's like the Dewey decimal system in a library. But 0:16:11.716 --> 0:16:15.276 does anyone say, well, I'm only going to listen to 0:16:15.676 --> 0:16:18.276 I'm only going to read nine hundred series books, or 0:16:18.556 --> 0:16:21.076 more importantly, does an author say I just wrote a 0:16:21.116 --> 0:16:23.396 six hundred series book. I think I'll do a nine hundred. 0:16:24.156 --> 0:16:26.036 That's not how it works, man, and that's not how 0:16:26.116 --> 0:16:29.196 musicians play. You don't sit there and think, all right, 0:16:29.476 --> 0:16:31.876 I think I'll throw a bluest lick in in a 0:16:31.916 --> 0:16:33.916 couple of hours, and then after that, I'm going to 0:16:33.996 --> 0:16:37.036 do this country thing that's gonna blow people's minds. You 0:16:37.156 --> 0:16:39.436 never think that you're it's just well, if you do, 0:16:39.556 --> 0:16:43.356 you're doing Some people probably do and they're doing it wrong. 0:16:44.876 --> 0:16:47.236 Really you shouldn't. I don't recommend because I hear people. 0:16:47.316 --> 0:16:48.996 I'm not to hear people think I want to do 0:16:49.076 --> 0:16:53.116 a one hundred dpm song. Why are we talking this 0:16:53.196 --> 0:16:53.636 way about? 0:16:54.516 --> 0:16:56.596 And when do we start talking this way about it? 0:16:58.236 --> 0:17:01.276 But I just think you play what you feel, and 0:17:02.716 --> 0:17:07.756 your language is determined by what you've absorbed. So everyone 0:17:07.796 --> 0:17:14.396 in our band grew up drinking this really rich cultural jambalaya. 0:17:14.196 --> 0:17:17.756 Yeah yeah, and it's reflected and what we play. 0:17:17.716 --> 0:17:19.916 Did did it bug people out? When you left Detroit? 0:17:19.916 --> 0:17:22.156 They coming to La from Detroit. Was it was it 0:17:22.316 --> 0:17:24.996 where they you know, I mean the first you listened 0:17:25.036 --> 0:17:27.436 to the first hour, the first singles, and the first. 0:17:27.196 --> 0:17:30.796 Album wasn't it was? Yeah, well we had We were 0:17:30.836 --> 0:17:34.996 a marketing nightmare. And they made no bones about telling 0:17:35.076 --> 0:17:39.436 us that. At one point they just couldn't figure out 0:17:39.716 --> 0:17:43.956 where we If we're white guys, it should be a 0:17:44.036 --> 0:17:46.116 rock and roll band, but this doesn't sound like rock 0:17:46.116 --> 0:17:53.556 and roll and the singers are black, So what band? 0:17:53.636 --> 0:17:55.916 What is this? How do we market this? Right? And 0:17:55.956 --> 0:17:58.716 they sent us to a big label, to the R 0:17:58.716 --> 0:18:01.036 and B department. That was the label we were on, 0:18:01.676 --> 0:18:04.636 and the head R and B took us, took David 0:18:04.636 --> 0:18:07.156 and I in his office and put on a Michael 0:18:07.236 --> 0:18:09.676 McDonald record, and he said, this is how people do 0:18:09.876 --> 0:18:16.836 R and B here. That was Warner Brothers hobbies. So 0:18:17.356 --> 0:18:19.636 we said, well, you know, I love Michael McDonald. I 0:18:19.716 --> 0:18:21.836 ended up producing Michael McDonald. He's one of my favorite 0:18:21.876 --> 0:18:24.316 singers on the world. But that's not what we're doing. 0:18:25.276 --> 0:18:29.436 And I was relieved when someone else came into the office. 0:18:29.476 --> 0:18:31.876 It was right around the time Prince had just delivered 0:18:31.876 --> 0:18:36.596 his Controversy album to them, and one of the promotion 0:18:36.676 --> 0:18:38.956 men came into this guy's office. What are we supposed 0:18:38.956 --> 0:18:42.196 to do with this shit? I thought, Okay, we're not 0:18:42.276 --> 0:18:44.996 alone here. There's something going on. And there was actually 0:18:45.756 --> 0:18:48.876 something going on in Detroit that fed the whole world. 0:18:48.916 --> 0:18:53.436 And we've talked about Electrifier and Mojo before electrifiering Mojo 0:18:53.676 --> 0:18:58.596 changed not just musical tastes in Detroit, but impacted the 0:18:58.636 --> 0:19:01.716 whole world. And the weird thing is that he did 0:19:01.716 --> 0:19:04.516 it mostly with Warner Brothers bands because there was a 0:19:04.556 --> 0:19:06.836 great promotion man in Detroit by the name of Ted 0:19:06.956 --> 0:19:10.556 Joseph who was taking Mojo these records. And Mojo understood 0:19:10.876 --> 0:19:14.876 listening to craft Work, listening to talking heads, listening to 0:19:15.196 --> 0:19:20.196 the B fifty two's he understood, and especially listening to Prince. 0:19:20.276 --> 0:19:23.556 He was Prince's first big advocate in the United States, 0:19:23.556 --> 0:19:27.676 I think, and he understood that this had broader appeal, 0:19:27.916 --> 0:19:32.236 that white kids and black kids would all like this 0:19:32.516 --> 0:19:35.396 as well as the Gap band, and he built this 0:19:35.556 --> 0:19:39.836 audience that no one had ever cultivated, and it became 0:19:40.116 --> 0:19:46.396 incredibly popular. You know, Africa bombarda, John Roby and Arthur Baker. 0:19:46.476 --> 0:19:49.396 They did Planet Rock, which is craft work with a 0:19:49.556 --> 0:19:52.716 rappin on top, and that comes from Mojo playing it. 0:19:53.396 --> 0:19:56.276 The word is that Tommy Silverman was in Detroit heard 0:19:56.276 --> 0:19:59.636 it and said, oh, man, do something on top of 0:19:59.676 --> 0:20:05.636 craft work. Really yeah, but he made that fashionable for 0:20:05.716 --> 0:20:08.516 black audiences. It made it cool to listen to this, 0:20:09.196 --> 0:20:11.756 turned them onto it. Yeah. I played the ship out 0:20:11.756 --> 0:20:16.796 of prints before anybody was. And then it started trickling 0:20:16.836 --> 0:20:19.676 back to Warner Brothers. They weren't saying, you know, what 0:20:19.716 --> 0:20:22.716 are we going to do with this shit? But it 0:20:22.756 --> 0:20:25.076 didn't help to be It didn't do you any favors 0:20:25.116 --> 0:20:28.036 to be six months ahead of your time, you know. 0:20:28.596 --> 0:20:31.076 So we paid a price for it. They didn't know 0:20:31.116 --> 0:20:33.316 what to do with us. We had some dance hits, 0:20:34.356 --> 0:20:37.676 and then the next label said, look, we don't know 0:20:37.716 --> 0:20:41.476 how to market to either fire the black singers, hire 0:20:41.516 --> 0:20:43.356 some white guys and be a rock and roll band, 0:20:43.556 --> 0:20:45.676 or you guys stay out of the band and let 0:20:45.676 --> 0:20:48.756 the singers carry it and be a sole band. And 0:20:48.796 --> 0:20:50.996 we said, but that's not what we do. Man, I'm 0:20:51.036 --> 0:20:53.556 not going to but like a family, you know, we're friends. 0:20:53.956 --> 0:20:56.116 I'm not going to fire an. So they put us 0:20:56.116 --> 0:21:05.076 on suspension, and I thought it was like baseball. Yeah, 0:21:05.116 --> 0:21:07.956 they put us on suspension, and I thought you'd do 0:21:07.996 --> 0:21:09.796 your thirty days and you come back and they'll put 0:21:09.796 --> 0:21:12.996 the record out. No, it's indefinite. Man, We're on suspension 0:21:13.036 --> 0:21:14.396 for years. Is that what happened? 0:21:14.476 --> 0:21:15.836 Is that why there was no Yeah? 0:21:15.996 --> 0:21:19.436 Yeah, And now later I came to realize that what 0:21:19.476 --> 0:21:22.796 they were really saying was get someone to buy out 0:21:22.836 --> 0:21:26.476 your contract, you know, don't don't make us look like schmucks, 0:21:26.716 --> 0:21:30.956 you know. So, but it was it was a long, 0:21:31.036 --> 0:21:33.676 hard two and a half years where we couldn't do anything. 0:21:33.716 --> 0:21:37.076 We couldn't play, and we couldn't release a record. But 0:21:37.156 --> 0:21:40.196 that's how I became a producer. That's how, that's how 0:21:40.236 --> 0:21:44.636 it happened. Yeah, because it's actually a couple of guys. 0:21:44.676 --> 0:21:48.276 Gary Gersh was an A and R guy at EMI 0:21:48.396 --> 0:21:50.956 America Records, and he took a look at this thing. 0:21:50.996 --> 0:21:54.116 Everyone paid attention because I don't even think David Geffen 0:21:54.196 --> 0:21:56.076 knew we were on the label, you know, or was 0:21:56.116 --> 0:21:59.276 paying attention to what we were doing, or was even 0:21:59.756 --> 0:22:04.116 a part of saying putting us on suspension. But people 0:22:04.116 --> 0:22:06.476 paid attention to what David Geffen did, So why did 0:22:06.516 --> 0:22:08.716 he sign these guys and wait a minute, they're just 0:22:08.836 --> 0:22:11.516 right and produce, so they could do that for anybody. 0:22:11.836 --> 0:22:13.916 So Gary Gersh was the first guy to hire me 0:22:13.996 --> 0:22:17.956 to produce a record in the United States. Came to 0:22:18.036 --> 0:22:22.116 Detroit and Steve Jensen, who ended up managing the B 0:22:22.236 --> 0:22:24.956 fifty twos and a bunch of other bands, he was 0:22:24.996 --> 0:22:27.116 an agent at the time and he became our first 0:22:27.156 --> 0:22:31.156 agent because he understood. He came to Detroit to and 0:22:31.396 --> 0:22:34.036 figured that out. So in that period of time I 0:22:34.076 --> 0:22:35.436 started producing records. 0:22:36.076 --> 0:22:38.396 So what was your first job as a producer. 0:22:38.916 --> 0:22:41.316 Well, the first job is actually it was an English 0:22:41.396 --> 0:22:46.196 band called Floyd Joy that had we didn't have We 0:22:46.276 --> 0:22:49.676 had like regional hits in the UK. I don't even 0:22:49.676 --> 0:22:51.876 know if it was ended up being released in this country. 0:22:51.916 --> 0:22:56.996 They were signed to Virgin Records and they liked the 0:22:57.036 --> 0:22:59.556 first was and that was album. They were from Sheffield 0:22:59.596 --> 0:23:03.716 and there's a link between Sheffield and Detroit industrial cities, 0:23:03.876 --> 0:23:07.516 you know, and they related to it, and so they 0:23:07.676 --> 0:23:10.436