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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Notorious school shooter Ethan Crumley opens fire, gunning down four

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Speaker 2: other students, riddling seven others with bullets. His parents gaslight

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Speaker 2: the courtroom in their bid to dodge prison. Good evening,

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Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 3: You say you wouldn't do anything different, Well, that really

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Speaker 3: says and what type of parents you are, because there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of things I would do different, But the

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Speaker 3: one thing I would have wanted to be different was

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Speaker 3: to take that bullet that day so she could continue

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Speaker 3: to live the life she deserved.

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Speaker 2: You are hearing victim's mom, Nicole Busella, speaking out in

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Speaker 2: court this as the parents a notorious school shooter Ethan

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Speaker 2: Cromley tries their bed to dodge prison. Now, as you know,

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Speaker 2: they ignored one warning sign after the next. As a

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Speaker 2: matter of fact, the day of the shooting, claiming the

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Speaker 2: lives of four high school students, gunning down seven others.

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Speaker 2: They're actually at the school that day because somebody has

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Speaker 2: found their son's notes claiming help me, I see blood,

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Speaker 2: pictures of where he has drawn guns. They gave him

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Speaker 2: a gun, knowing that he was having homicidal ideation in

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Speaker 2: the courtroom, the victim's parents boiling over with rage as

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Speaker 2: they try to make sense of the parents claiming they

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Speaker 2: had nothing to do with it. With me an all

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Speaker 2: star panel to make sense of what we know right now,

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Speaker 2: And first I want to go out to Lauren Conlin,

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Speaker 2: who's been on the story from the very beginning, investigative

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Speaker 2: journalists and host of the Outlawyer podcast. What happened in court?

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Speaker 4: Lauren Nancy, this was absolutely disgraceful. I was completely disgusted by.

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Speaker 5: Jennifer and James Crumbly. What I saw was.

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Speaker 4: These two banding together against their son, completely distancing themselves

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Speaker 4: from their son, placing all of the blame on him,

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Speaker 4: nothing on themselves. And it goes back to what Madison's

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Speaker 4: mother said, you are not a good parent. Any parent

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Speaker 4: would take the blame for their child, they would have

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Speaker 4: some accountability. So this behavior was absolutely disgusting. James Crumbly,

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Speaker 4: I mean when he tried to say something, Oh, yeah,

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Speaker 4: we're gonna get to the truth, It's like, don't you dare,

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Speaker 4: don't you dare right now say that you want the truth?

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Speaker 5: Okay? I mean it was sick to me.

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Speaker 4: I'm sick to my stomach even speaking about it.

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Speaker 5: This is a landmark moment in court.

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Speaker 2: Let me go to HI file lawyer Jarrett Farentino, former

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Speaker 2: homicide prosecutor Jarrettfarentino dot com.

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Speaker 5: Jarrett, thank you so much for being with us, Jarrett.

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Speaker 2: Never in the history of the US or anywhere else,

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Speaker 2: based on my research, have parents been held liable for

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Speaker 2: what their child did a criminal act.

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Speaker 5: A criminal act, I don't.

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Speaker 2: Mean you give your child a car at age eighteen,

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Speaker 2: at age seventeen and they go crash into somebody and

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Speaker 2: cause damage.

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Speaker 5: All right, you can be sued, all right, civilly, But

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Speaker 5: this is a criminal case. This has never happened before.

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Speaker 6: You're correct, Nancy, and this is the case. These parents

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Speaker 6: set the table for this incident. They ignored Ethan's christ

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Speaker 6: for help, which is why the judge should ignore the

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Speaker 6: christ for help from Jennifer and James in asking for

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Speaker 6: leniency in their sentence. The cocktail of actions and inactions here.

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Speaker 6: Without their failures, you would not have had this shooting.

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Speaker 6: They gave James the gun, they allowed him access to

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Speaker 6: that firearm. They ignored his mental health issues, they ignored

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Speaker 6: his journal writings. All of that together, Nancy's you know

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Speaker 6: rise to recklessness and a criminal negligence where death is

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Speaker 6: a foreseeable result. And that's exactly why this case can

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Speaker 6: stand as a shining example that a failure of parents

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Speaker 6: to ignore those kinds of warning signs can result in

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Speaker 6: criminal liability.

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Speaker 5: What exactly happened, Take a listen.

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Speaker 7: Honestly, Judge, I.

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Speaker 8: Don't have the words to describe how horrific that was.

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Speaker 8: That happened on November the thirtieth. It depicted just before

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Speaker 8: twelve fifty one pm, this defendant entering a bathroom with

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Speaker 8: a back beat.

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Speaker 5: A minute or two later, he acted at the same.

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Speaker 8: Bathroom and not the back bet, but with a gun

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Speaker 8: in hand at that point and deliberately walked down the hallway,

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Speaker 8: eating the firearm at students and firing right outside the

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Speaker 8: bathroom he'd began firing, Judge, after children started running away

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Speaker 8: from the defendant, he continued down the hallway again at

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Speaker 8: a deliberate and methodical case, planking and em inside classrooms

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Speaker 8: and had students who hadn't had the opportunity to escape.

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Speaker 5: This continued on for four.

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Speaker 8: Approxicly five minutes. The defendant went to another bathroom as

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Speaker 8: Depi's riot, he set the firearm down and he surrendered.

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Speaker 5: There were so many warning signs.

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Speaker 2: And isn't it true to Lauren Conlin that that very

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Speaker 2: day when the parents are summoned to the school because

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Speaker 2: the principals worried about Ethan Crumley's homicidal ideations, his desire

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Speaker 2: to gun people down, drawing blood, writing the words blood everywhere, Help.

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Speaker 5: Me, I want to shoot people.

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Speaker 2: And he brings a gun to school, a gun that

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Speaker 2: they gave him.

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Speaker 5: Crazy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that very day. Isn't it true that mom, who

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Speaker 2: is a lover rat, that's a nice way you putting it,

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Speaker 2: was caught up in a sex affair with somebody else

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Speaker 2: and she was trying to arrange a meeting a tryst.

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Speaker 9: Yes.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, So they were called into the school fair being

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Speaker 4: shown these drawings of guns and blood and Ethan's writing saying,

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Speaker 4: my life is useless, the thoughts won't stop, Please help me,

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Speaker 4: and the school essentially said you need to take him

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Speaker 4: out of here and get him help. And now it

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Speaker 4: was said Jennifer was having this affair. All she cared

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Speaker 4: about was this affair, her boyfriend and her horses. And

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Speaker 4: meanwhile Ethan is exhibiting this absolutely terribly terrible behavior. He's

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Speaker 4: crying out for help. I mean, it was said Jennifer

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Speaker 4: Crumbley was a huge drinker. There was eighteen bottles of

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Speaker 4: whiskey or something like that purchased, even had a bottle

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Speaker 4: of that whiskey in his bedroom. Now that is not okay.

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Speaker 4: This is a fifteen year old boy. And additionally, he

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Speaker 4: had called her on occasion texted her saying I'm seeing demons.

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Speaker 4: Clothes are being strewn around the house. Can you please

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Speaker 4: come home? She doesn't respond, she's with her boyfriend. He

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Speaker 4: texts again, can you please at least respond to me?

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Speaker 4: So yeah, leading up to this and the day of,

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Speaker 4: it's just unacceptable. And I want to add one more thing.

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Speaker 4: Jennifer Crumbley in the courtroom did not even stand her

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Speaker 4: butt up and face the parents who lost their children.

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Speaker 2: You know, another thing happened in court, and I want

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Speaker 2: to analyze the actual words.

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Speaker 5: Now, this is as the four.

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Speaker 2: Dad, students, parents and families are there to see the sentencing,

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Speaker 2: and families of the seven other students that were gunned

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Speaker 2: down but managed to survive, they're all in there, okay,

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Speaker 2: And this is what the dad said, I'm sorry for

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Speaker 2: your law as a result of what my son did.

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Speaker 2: I cannot express how much I wish I had known

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Speaker 2: what was going on with him or what was going

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Speaker 2: to happen. But I absolutely would have done a lot

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Speaker 2: of things differently. Now the mom, on the other hand,

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Speaker 2: says this could be any parent up here in my shoes.

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Speaker 2: She says she would not have done anything differently. So

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Speaker 2: you see both of them refusing to acknowledge any responsibility.

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Speaker 2: Mommy was in such a hurry to get out of

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Speaker 2: that principal's office and go hop in the site with

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Speaker 2: some lover, some married lover.

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Speaker 5: I think you was. I don't care. I don't care

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Speaker 5: who's sleeping with who.

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Speaker 2: I care about the school shooting and these victims' families.

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Speaker 5: And they're in court hearing what is supposed to be

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Speaker 5: an elocution.

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Speaker 2: That means when the defendant, who has under no duty

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Speaker 2: to speak in a court of law or the Fifth

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Speaker 2: Amendment right to remain silent, decides to get up an

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Speaker 2: elocute fancy word for speak all right, with no cross examination,

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Speaker 2: So things say whatever they want to.

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Speaker 5: Man, I would like to take.

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Speaker 2: A bite out of their ear in and chew them up,

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Speaker 2: because in court they.

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Speaker 5: Say, we're not perfect. But yeah, you say that again.

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Speaker 2: I mean when you hear what led up to this,

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Speaker 2: taking their son to a shooting range, letting him practice

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Speaker 2: with all of his homicidal desires, knowing about.

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Speaker 5: It, ignoring it.

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Speaker 2: Listen, I'm not saying it as well as the victim's

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Speaker 2: family said it. And just imagine you know you can't

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Speaker 2: Ferytina will agree with this.

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Speaker 5: You can't ask.

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Speaker 2: A jury under the law to put themselves in the

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Speaker 2: shoes of the victim. Okay, you can't do that, but

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Speaker 2: this there was no jury here. This is in front

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Speaker 2: of the judge at sentencing. Can you imagine these parents,

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Speaker 2: their children are at school, like I My children at

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Speaker 2: school every day, they never miss school, and I think

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Speaker 2: everything's okay, right for these parents to get that call

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Speaker 2: there's a school shooting and your child is dead.

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Speaker 5: Listen to this victim's mom.

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Speaker 3: You say you wouldn't do anything different, Well, that really

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Speaker 3: says and what type of parents you are, because there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of things I would do different, But the

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Speaker 3: one thing would I would have wanted to be different

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Speaker 3: was to take that bullet that day so she could

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Speaker 3: continue to live the life she deserved.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 5: I've got to go out to our shrink. I need

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Speaker 5: a shrink right now.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Sherry Schwartz, forensic psychologist and author of Criminal Behavior,

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Speaker 2: where law and psychology intersect. Doctor Sherry, thank you for

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Speaker 2: being with us. Did you hear what Miss Bussila said?

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Speaker 2: She said, quote you, and she's talking to the mom.

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Speaker 2: You say you wouldn't do anything different. Well, that really

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Speaker 2: tells me what kind of parents you are, because there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of things I would do differently, but the

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Speaker 2: one thing I would have wanted to be different was

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Speaker 2: to take that bullet that day so my daughter could

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Speaker 2: continue to live.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I'm just.

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Speaker 2: Thinking of these parents, and you know, I thought I

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Speaker 2: knew all about grief, Doctor Sherry. My fiance was murdered

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Speaker 2: shortly before our wedding, But now that I've got the twins,

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Speaker 2: I didn't know what grief was. Can you imagine a

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Speaker 2: mother up there and all she can do now for

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Speaker 2: her daughter is give this plea in court for a

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Speaker 2: maximum sentence. Can you just even imagine being in her shoes?

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Speaker 10: I cannot imagine it. And to hear her speak and

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Speaker 10: talk about how she would literally change places with her daughter.

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Speaker 10: This is what not only what we expect of parents,

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Speaker 10: but something biological that happens, something that says, I'm going

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Speaker 10: to take all of the bad things that i can

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Speaker 10: remove from my child's life so that they don't have

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Speaker 10: to feel pain. Because as a parent, I know what

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Speaker 10: it is to feel pain, and you don't want your

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Speaker 10: children to suffer. But the Crumleys don't suffer from that disease. Clearly,

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Speaker 10: they had so many opportunities to help their son and

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Speaker 10: to remove his pain and to do things that they

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Speaker 10: could do to help him to become better, to become

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Speaker 10: well adjusted, and every chance that they had, they turned

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Speaker 10: their back.

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Speaker 2: Doctorsari, I want to be very clear, Ethan Crumley was

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Speaker 2: not deemed to be legally insane in our jurisprudence in

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Speaker 2: the US, which we brought over from Great Britain. There

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Speaker 2: is the old MacNaughton test. That's what it's called the

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Speaker 2: old MacNaughton test. Very simply put, do did you know

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Speaker 2: right from wrong at the time of the incident. I

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Speaker 2: don't mean you're crazy, insanity defense you cooked up once

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Speaker 2: you're arrested. I mean at the time of the offense.

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Speaker 2: That's the insanity test, the litmus test. He hid his actions.

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Speaker 2: He hid the gun, he went in the bathroom undercover,

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Speaker 2: hid armed himself, came out and shot everyone very methodically.

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Speaker 5: He knew exactly what he was doing. He was not insane.

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Speaker 2: So when we say help him, it's help him not

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Speaker 2: bring a gun to school and shoot it up. And

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Speaker 2: as far as what the appearents knew, I want you

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Speaker 2: to listen to the nine to one one call that

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Speaker 2: mister Crombley made as soon as he heard there had

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Speaker 2: been a shooting. Oh yeah, he knew what was going down.

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Speaker 5: Listen, Okay, I'm not really sure.

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Speaker 9: I'm at my house. There's a MAPPI shooter detuion going

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Speaker 9: on in my school. My son goes doing a pool,

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Speaker 9: I have a missing doune at my house. An officer

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Speaker 9: don my house. Can your movie character? I had a

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Speaker 9: living arn and my son.

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Speaker 11: At the school and me.

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Speaker 9: Had to go meet her there this morning because of

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Speaker 9: the show being that he worked on a paper. And

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Speaker 9: then I st do again and I told a whole

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Speaker 9: bunch of times shore and sure I wanted to be

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Speaker 9: the go on and shooter and then out I.

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Speaker 1: Don't know.

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Speaker 2: You are in a landmark ruling, a landmark verdict Crumbley's

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Speaker 2: parents are going to jail.

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Speaker 5: Don't cry too much.

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Speaker 2: Their sentence was uh uh, five to fifteen something like

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Speaker 2: that on involuntary manslaughter. They will most likely grid out

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Speaker 2: at about three, three, maybe four years behind bars max.

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Speaker 2: For four dead students, seven others gunned down in the

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Speaker 2: hallways of the high school.

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Speaker 5: What I mean when I say grid out to you?

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Speaker 2: Jarrett Farentino, for instance, if you get a theft by

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Speaker 2: shoplifting conviction and your sentence to fifteen years behind bars maximum, okay,

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Speaker 2: what does that mean?

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Speaker 5: Nothing?

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Speaker 2: Because partner parole and the GRID system treats a theft

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Speaker 2: by shoplifting much more leniently than it would, say, an

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Speaker 2: aggravated assault or an involuntary manslaughter. Involuntary is treated more

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Speaker 2: leniently than an aggravated battery or murder. So on involuntary manslaughter,

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Speaker 2: even though you get a sentence of ten to fifteen,

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Speaker 2: you're probably going to grid out by pardoner parole at

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Speaker 2: three or four years.

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Speaker 5: That's the hardest truth. I don't like it, but that's

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Speaker 5: the truth.

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Speaker 6: And Nancy, look the end result of their actions. Our

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Speaker 6: children are dead, and I've had cases like this, and

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Speaker 6: the sentences are shockingly low. But we're stuck with our

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Speaker 6: hands are tied.

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Speaker 12: With the law, and with the law calls for, and

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Speaker 12: the sentencing guidelines call for looking at all of the

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Speaker 12: intentional acts and the negligent acts that the Crumbley's committed here.

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Speaker 6: This is woefully below what they should serve. But again,

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Speaker 6: this is the first case of its kind. They didn't

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Speaker 6: get away with what they did, and we have to

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Speaker 6: focus on Ethan got life. He's the killer here. But

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Speaker 6: they're being held accountable for their behavior, although it's just

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Speaker 6: not going to be enough. You're right, they will likely

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Speaker 6: grid out at them.

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Speaker 2: I mean, can we just get real for one moment, Farantino,

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Speaker 2: and let's go to Tom Smith, former NYPD detective, co

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Speaker 2: host of the gold Shields podcast and you can find

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Speaker 2: him at the goldshieldshow dot com. Tom, can we just

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Speaker 2: speak candidly, no sugar coating, no air brushing the truth.

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Speaker 2: The parents were part of this. I consider them co conspirators.

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Speaker 2: They know their son is having homicidal idiation. That's a

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Speaker 2: fancy talk for he's considering shooting things up. He wants

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Speaker 2: to kill people homicide. They know that, they don't they

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Speaker 2: have to. They claim they're going to hire a deep.

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Speaker 5: Cleaner because they won't clean his room or make him

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Speaker 5: clean the room.

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Speaker 2: This kid's teeth, his mouth is full of cavities underneath braces.

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Speaker 5: They're letting his mouth rot.

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Speaker 2: They're letting him draw all these homicidal drawings.

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Speaker 5: They're doing nothing. And what do they do.

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Speaker 2: They gift him with a sig, a sig sour nine,

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Speaker 2: and they take him to practice shooting.

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Speaker 5: I mean, listen, my son, John David, he's a sharp shooter.

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Speaker 5: How do I know that?

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Speaker 2: Because he learned it in scouts in a controlled environment.

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Speaker 2: He doesn't have access to a gun to take it

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Speaker 2: to school.

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Speaker 5: They train this kid to.

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Speaker 2: Shoot down a target with a person as a target.

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Speaker 2: They know he's dreaming, and I may not just at night,

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Speaker 2: but during the day he's planning and fantasizing about killing people.

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Speaker 2: They call the parents to the schools, they take him home.

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Speaker 2: Now they don't, and he shoots up the school. Have

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Speaker 2: you ever seen anything like it? You know, like in

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Speaker 2: other cases, the parents claim to have no knowledge. Hey,

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Speaker 2: we didn't know what was going on. We didn't know

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Speaker 2: our kid was making a bomb in the garage.

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Speaker 5: Here they knew exactly what was going on.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, what they did was they empowered them. You know,

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Speaker 11: they knew everything that was going on. They accepted it

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Speaker 11: and didn't what they weren't parents, they were They blew

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Speaker 11: it off and figured it'll work itself out. And they

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Speaker 11: empowered him by giving him a gun and showing him

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Speaker 11: how to use it. He had the targets hanging in

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Speaker 11: his bedroom. I mean, there's only so much you can

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Speaker 11: look over. Listen, no parent wants to accept the fact

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Speaker 11: that their child may have a mental health issue. But

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Speaker 11: when it comes to this, there has to be consequences

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Speaker 11: to your non actions with a situation like this, especially

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Speaker 11: a school shooting causing a depth of four individuals and

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Speaker 11: you know seven other shot.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Tom, I got a question for you. There is

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Speaker 2: a method. It takes about ten seconds to do it.

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Speaker 2: You're supposed to, of course, have your guns under lock

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Speaker 2: and key in your home, but there is also a method.

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Speaker 5: In addition to that.

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Speaker 2: You can do a cable lock where you just wrap

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Speaker 2: cable cord. You know, when you go to Best Buy

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Speaker 2: or something like that and they have their expensive electronics

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Speaker 2: clamp down with a cable cord.

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Speaker 5: I mean you can pick it up and look at it,

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Speaker 5: but you can't take it with you.

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Speaker 2: There is a gunlock, a gun security lot, and it's

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Speaker 2: a cable cord that you can't cut through, and it

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Speaker 2: takes literally ten seconds, ten seconds to secure the guns.

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Speaker 2: It's making my head blow up thinking about you know

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Speaker 2: what we haven't done, Tom. We have not named the victims.

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Speaker 2: We've talked a lot about the Crumleys, but the most

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Speaker 2: important thing here are these victims. Think about it. Listen

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Speaker 2: to their ages. Justin Shilling and Madison Baldwin. That's you

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Speaker 2: were hearing earlier, Nicole speaking her daughter both just seventeen,

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Speaker 2: Tate Meyer sixteen, the age of my twins, fourteen year old.

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Speaker 5: Hannah Saint Juliana.

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Speaker 2: Six other students shot at school and one teacher shot.

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Speaker 2: When their families get to speak, they talk about how

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Speaker 2: the shitting does still haunt them. I don't know how

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Speaker 2: you ever get over a losing your child, but b

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Speaker 2: having them murdered.

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Speaker 8: Two.

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Speaker 5: Doctor Kendall Crowns joining.

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Speaker 2: Us special guest chief, a medical examiner Terrant County that's

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Speaker 2: Fort Worth, no lack of business there, and special lecturer

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Speaker 2: at University Texas Christian University Medical School. Doctor Kendall Crowns

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Speaker 2: about how many if you had to estimate autopsies have you.

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Speaker 13: Performed Probably close to like between eight nine thousand somewhere

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Speaker 13: in there.

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Speaker 5: Wow. Have you ever.

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Speaker 2: Been in a position where you have four young teen children,

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Speaker 2: one as young as fourteen just turned fourteen by the way,

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Speaker 2: come in from autopsy.

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Speaker 5: Yes, when you see that happen.

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Speaker 2: Is it different for you performing autopsies on children, especially

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Speaker 2: homicide victims.

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Speaker 13: Well, with children, it's always difficult because you know the

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Speaker 13: potential of life being extinguished, etc. But it's still sad

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Speaker 13: to me any individual that's part of a homicide, be

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Speaker 13: it a be a newborn or one hundred years old,

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Speaker 13: I still think it's unfortunate that their life was ended

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Speaker 13: without their consent basically, so it is harder when it's

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Speaker 13: a child. But still to me, all homicides are unfortunate situations.

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Speaker 2: Not are crowns. I'm trying to think about what these

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Speaker 2: children went through. They're at school, having a normal day,

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Speaker 2: and all of a sudden they hear gunshots ring out.

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Speaker 2: They probably didn't know what it was at first, because

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Speaker 2: our minds tricks on us. We don't want to believe

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Speaker 2: there's somebody's shooting a gun down the hall at school.

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Speaker 2: But having been shot and falling to the ground in

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Speaker 2: the hallway and vaguely seeing being aware of people running by,

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Speaker 2: nobody's helping you. What would their last recollections have been

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Speaker 2: like as they bled out?

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Speaker 5: Could they focus on anything?

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Speaker 13: Well, you know, you've been shot, so you're in pain,

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Speaker 13: and then you're bleeding, so you're going to go into shock. Eventually,

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Speaker 13: there'd be fear and panic in not really knowing what's

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Speaker 13: going on again, whatever's hit as well. If your legs

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Speaker 13: are hit and you're not being able to walk, your

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Speaker 13: spinal cords compromised and you're paralyzed, all that can play

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Speaker 13: into it and create more fear and more panic. And

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Speaker 13: as you're bleeding out and slowly going unconscious, all you're

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Speaker 13: seeing is there's no hope.

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Speaker 2: Now Here's another issue the judge had to deal with

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Speaker 2: at sentencing. When they realize what their son has done,

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Speaker 2: what do they do?

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Speaker 5: Do they go to the school.

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Speaker 2: Do they go to the parents of the victims and

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Speaker 2: beg for forgiveness and try to console them?

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Speaker 5: Oh? No, oh no, they go on the run.

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Speaker 7: Listen to Oakland shoot the kid as the two parents

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Speaker 7: that are on a run right now and had you

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Speaker 7: know Oakland Telly said, call if you see anything. And

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Speaker 7: I just wanted to go park my car and switch

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Speaker 7: it around at my office. And at my office and

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Speaker 7: there was the Kia and I looked like their car.

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Speaker 7: And I walked around and checked did lie edits their car?

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Speaker 7: And the woman is here connect to the car. Shee

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Speaker 7: is aware sitting next to her car in the parking lot.

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Speaker 2: So the two of them go on the run while

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Speaker 2: their son is being charged with four murders and seven

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Speaker 2: aggravated assaul joining.

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Speaker 5: Me in all star panel.

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Speaker 2: But I want to go to Jarrett Fiorentino, high profile

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Speaker 2: lawyer joining a homicide prosecutor at Jarrettfarantino dot com. Jarrett,

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Speaker 2: you cannot have the judge, and most jurisdictions now charge

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Speaker 2: the jury, which is giving the jury the law by

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Speaker 2: which they are to determine the case outcome.

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Speaker 5: But the prosecutor can still argue it.

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Speaker 2: If they wish in closing arguments, which I of course would,

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Speaker 2: And that is flight. So, Jarrett Fiorentino, when you see

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Speaker 2: the police come up behind you on the interstate when

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Speaker 2: you're speeding, do you gun it and take off at

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Speaker 2: one hundred and ten mph? You might tap the brakes

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Speaker 2: a tiny bit, but you don't run because you're not

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Speaker 2: worried they're going to find a sawd off shotgun in

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Speaker 2: your trunk or a pound of pot. No flight is

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Speaker 2: in disha of guilt.

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Speaker 6: You're correct, Nancy. It's consciousness of guilt. First of all.

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Speaker 6: In this case, it's continued to abandonment of Ethan. Okay,

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Speaker 6: Ethan's in trouble, his parents take off. What also, the

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Speaker 6: jury could consider them taking off and fleeting shows they

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Speaker 6: knew they had culpability and responsibility in this case for

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Speaker 6: Ethan's actions. And there's an instruction that goes to the

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Speaker 6: jury as you know that they're allowed as jurors to

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Speaker 6: consider that flight in assessing whether the parents in this

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Speaker 6: case are guilty or innocent. So it's a powerful piece

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Speaker 6: of evidence in this case.

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Speaker 5: Well as a matter of fact.

440
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 2: Lauren Conlin an investigative journalist and host of The Outlaier Lauren.

441
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 2: After the parents went on the run, the judge was

442
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 2: so afraid they'd do it again, he put a one

443
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 2: million dollar bond on both of their heads. Describe for

444
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 2: people that don't already know about it, how the parents

445
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 2: took off. They left their son to fend for himself.

446
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 2: Behind bars. They never made contact with the victims' families. Nothing,

447
00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 2: and they.

448
00:27:58,480 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 5: Go on the run.

449
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 4: They went on the run, and allegedly Jennifer Crumbley sent

450
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 4: text messages to people saying we're on the run again.

451
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 4: That was one text, and then another text she sent

452
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 4: she said where fed? And she said the actual word.

453
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 4: So yeah, this is absolutely an admission of guilt here

454
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 4: and again it's leaving your son to deal with this

455
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 4: on his own. She also allegedly texts Ethan, don't do.

456
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 5: It, guys.

457
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 2: The gaslighting in the courtroom, the audacity of these parents

458
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 2: asking now for lenient treatment. I don't know if you

459
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 2: know this or not, but the mom actually asked to

460
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 2: serve her sentence living in someone's house, living at home.

461
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 2: But that said, what exactly did the dad ask the judge?

462
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 5: Listen?

463
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:56,719
Speaker 14: Ethan Crumbley's father, James, convicted of involuntary manslaughter, is asking

464
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 14: the judge for time served. Oakland County Prosecutor Marquis has

465
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 14: recommended ten to fifteen year jail sentences for both Jennifer

466
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 14: and her husband, James. Of James Crumbley, Keith said in

467
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 14: his sentencing memo, defendant's shameless lack of remorse and asking

468
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 14: for time served as an appropriate sentence is a slap

469
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 14: in the face to the severity of tragedy caused by

470
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 14: his gross negligence to the victims and their families. Keist

471
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 14: went on to say of James Crumbly, he has shown

472
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 14: a chilling lack of remorse for his culpability in this matter.

473
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 14: He has blamed everyone but himself and considers himself a martyr.

474
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.

475
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 2: You've got the parents behind bars awaiting trial, and they

476
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 2: go go ahead, f you record my call. You're afked

477
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 2: up woman. To the elect district attorney. Retribution is coming,

478
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 2: really retribution for you in court. But he actually was

479
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 2: threatening to go after the lady prosecutor.

480
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 5: You know that old phrase which.

481
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 2: I hate, Lauren Colin, I hate the apple doesn't fall

482
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 2: far from the tree.

483
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 5: Well, actually true in this case. What did he say?

484
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 4: Well, I also want to point out as well, Jennifer Crumbly,

485
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 4: what she stated was that she hated the prosecutor. She

486
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 4: actually said the prosecutor's name once, and she said the victims'

487
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 4: names once, I believe. And James Crumbley as well, he

488
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 4: said the victims' names just once they were so focused

489
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 4: on themselves and their hatred of the prosecution, it was

490
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,959
Speaker 4: incredibly offensive. And then going back to what you stated

491
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 4: about Jennifer Crumbley wanting to serve out her sentence in

492
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 4: her lawyer's guest house, I mean, her guest house is

493
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 4: ten miles away from Oxford from where this shooting took place.

494
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 4: Have you looked at girlfriend's outfits? I mean, I'm assuming

495
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 4: that guest house is nice. She wants to live a

496
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 4: cushy life serving out that sentence, And I am just disgusted.

497
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 4: And then Buck Muir, Tate's father also had expressed a

498
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 4: lot of frustration, not just with the Crumblies, but with

499
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 4: the sheriff's office himself, and James Crumbly took that as

500
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 4: an opportunity to say, yeah, hey, yeah, let's look at

501
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 4: the sheriff's office, let's look at the school, let's look

502
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 4: for the truth, anything to take the heat off them.

503
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 4: And I, just like you said, I cannot imagine being

504
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,719
Speaker 4: the parents of the victims and having to watch that

505
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 4: and see that no remorse whatsoever.

506
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 2: You know, when a prosecutor or law enforcement is threatened,

507
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 2: that in itself is a felony.

508
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 5: It's called a terroristic threat under the law.

509
00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 2: And I want to go to Tom Smith, former NYP

510
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 2: detective and co host of Goldshields podcast. I guess you

511
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 2: and Ferrutino will agree with me. I don't give a

512
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 2: flying fig if a defendant hates me.

513
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 5: In fact, I think I'd.

514
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 2: Be mad if they didn't, because when I get through

515
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 2: with them, I expect they will hate me.

516
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 5: Fine, hate me, so nobody cares.

517
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 2: But when it gets to the level of threats, that's

518
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 2: a whole another thing.

519
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 5: Toom Smith.

520
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 2: Now listen and a call made January three, twenty twenty four,

521
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 2: this just happened. James Crumley says, I am fed on

522
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 2: a rampage, Karen, and he's talking about the elected lady prosecutor. Yes,

523
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 2: Karen McDonald, your ass is going down and you better

524
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 2: being scared.

525
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 5: I'm very surprised they.

526
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 2: Didn't prosecute him on a terroristic threat. The only thing

527
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 2: that you miss one element of terroristic threat. It's got

528
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 2: to be communicated to the victim. And this was a

529
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 2: recorded jailhouse call, so it just this is a terroristic threat.

530
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 5: But my point is Tom, that this is their frame

531
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 5: of mind.

532
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 2: They're not going Oh, I can't eat, I can't sleep.

533
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 5: It's my fault.

534
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 2: These children are dead and our son, our son is

535
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 2: behind bars.

536
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't care what you do with me.

537
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 5: Go ahead and kill me. Now. My son is behind

538
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 5: bars and four children are dead. You know hear any

539
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 5: of that? Tom? Huh? No?

540
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 11: No, it's the worst example of being so out of

541
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 11: touch and unremorseful of something your son did and you

542
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 11: empowered him to do. I mean, it's disgraceful and disgusting

543
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 11: to listen to. And you know what, before I retired,

544
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 11: I was involved in a case that we actually stopped

545
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 11: the school shooting from happening six days before it happened.

546
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 11: And when I hear cases like this, it really gets

547
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 11: me because of the case I was involved in and

548
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 11: we stopped. But all throughout that time, it was always

549
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 11: what could happen, who the victims could.

550
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,359
Speaker 6: Be, and who the teachers could be affected by this?

551
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 11: And if I look back on the case, we always

552
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 11: thought that the mother had an inkling about what the

553
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,919
Speaker 11: son who we ended up arresting, was going through, and

554
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 11: if this case had happened before then I might be

555
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 11: entailed to charge her or at least talk to the

556
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 11: DA even back then about charging her if this case

557
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 11: had happened before our case. And it's just disgusting what happened.

558
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 2: You're hearing James Crony, the father's comments behind bars about

559
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 2: how he wants retribution against the prosecutor when.

560
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 5: His son is the one that shot at the school.

561
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 2: But I want you to hear the mom ain't a

562
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 2: lot better. Take a listen to this.

563
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 15: My son he had one bedroom and it got out

564
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 15: of control, and every time I go to plana, I

565
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 15: just shut the door. And I just didn't want to

566
00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 15: deal with it. So then I told him he could

567
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 15: just he is a guess badger room befil. I can

568
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 15: get his room deck cleaned. He's horrible brushing his teeth.

569
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 15: He used the waterpick we got him. He went brushed properly.

570
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 15: He would kind of still at cavities in his braces.

571
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 15: So we end up taking the wires out because one

572
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 15: time he had thirteen cavities under the braces.

573
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 2: Help me out here, doctor Sherry Schwartz, you're the shrink.

574
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 2: One time he had thirteen cavities under his braces. A

575
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 2: lot of people say, you know, why are you thinking

576
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 2: about that? That doesn't matter. It does matter, because it

577
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 2: shows me just how much they're not paying attention to

578
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 2: their son.

579
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 5: His teeth are rotting under the braces. So if you're

580
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 5: going to ignore that, are you going to ignore what he's.

581
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 2: Writing in his school notebook or what's in his school

582
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 2: locker or what he's got.

583
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 5: In his backpack. I mean to me, it's a huge

584
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 5: red flag.

585
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 10: Absolutely, and they did ignore all of those things. But

586
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 10: what I hear when she's talking in that clip is

587
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 10: that she's blaming him. He didn't clean his room. And

588
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 10: so the solution is use the guest room instead of

589
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 10: trying to figure out what the issue is. And Ethan

590
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 10: told them repeatedly, I need help.

591
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 5: I'm not well.

592
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 10: I need help, and they ignored that too. Everything was

593
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 10: Ethan's fault, nothing is their fault. They bear no responsibility whatsoever.

594
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 10: And I don't expect parents to be mental health professionals.

595
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 5: Of course not.

596
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 10: But when you are seeing things like such a filthy,

597
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 10: dirty room that the child has to use a different

598
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 10: room and teeth decaying under the braces, when you provided

599
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 10: the water pick and the technology to keep it clean,

600
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 10: this is a signal that something is wrong. Even if

601
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 10: your child doesn't tell you something is wrong, and it

602
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 10: is incumbent upon you as a parent to take that

603
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 10: seriously and move mountains to do something about it.

604
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 2: This is a landmark decision, a landmark verdict.

605
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 5: A jury convicting notorious school shooter Ethan.

606
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 2: Crumley's parents for their part in the murders of four

607
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 2: high school students and the aggravated assault shootings of seven others.

608
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 5: At the school. What exactly did they do? What inflamed

609
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 5: the jury?

610
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 2: To Jarrett Farentino, if you had to sum up as

611
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 2: you finish your final closing statement to the jury, and

612
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 2: you want to leave them with five sentences, what would

613
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 2: you say, mister and missus Crumley did, And the theme.

614
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 6: Of that closing nancy would be their reckless disregard for Ethan.

615
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 6: They disregarded his physical needs, They disregarded his mental health,

616
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 6: they disregarded his hygiene. They armed him with a weapon,

617
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 6: They disregarded the statements that he made. All of those

618
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 6: negligent disregards guards set the table for these killings. They

619
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 6: gave him the bullets in their disregard for their son,

620
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,280
Speaker 6: they literally provided them with a firearm, and they failed

621
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 6: to protect those children. They failed to get him out

622
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 6: of that school building on that very day. Because they

623
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 6: were more concerned about getting back to work and addressing

624
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:24,760
Speaker 6: their own personal personal needs. They ignored this boy's christ

625
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 6: for help. That's why they're convicted, and that's why they

626
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 6: should spend every single day possible in jail.

627
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 2: Defiant to the end, insisting they had no part, no

628
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 2: responsibility at all and their son's school shooting with mass victims,

629
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 2: and that defiance, I believe, is what did them in.

630
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 2: Never once did they say I'm not the victim here

631
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,959
Speaker 2: throughout they consider themselves the victims and the mars as.

632
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 5: A matter of fact. Wait to you hear what the

633
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 5: mother actually said in court.

634
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 14: Listen and what prosecutors calling a slap in the face

635
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 14: of victims and their families. Jennifer Crumbley, the mother of

636
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 14: Michigan school shooter Ethan Crumbley, is trying to avoid going

637
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 14: behind bars after being convicted of involuntary manslaughter. Crumbly is

638
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 14: asking a judge to sentence her to house arrest in

639
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 14: the guesthouse of her attorney, a house prosecutors say is

640
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 14: an upgrade to the place Crumbly used to call home.

641
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 2: Amazing, amazing, and I want to quote what one of

642
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 2: the victim's fourteen year old Hannah's dad, her dad, Steve

643
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 2: Saint Juliana said, quote, not once did they say I

644
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 2: wish I would a lot the gun up or even

645
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 2: acknowledge they are not the victims. And this scenario, as

646
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 2: a matter of fact, going so far to discuss, to plant,

647
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 2: to fantasize about effing up the prosecutor, the judge exasperated

648
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 2: with the two of them, The victims fe families crying

649
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 2: in court. Is there any way for the parents to

650
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,760
Speaker 2: make a comeback? You heard joining us today doctor Kendall

651
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:16,919
Speaker 2: Crown's describing what the children went through if they did

652
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 2: not take a direct shot to the head.

653
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 5: And we're talking about.

654
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 2: Children as young as fourteen years old bleeding out on

655
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 2: the floor of the school hall their last moments. And

656
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 2: now the parents wonder did they call out for mommy,

657
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 2: did they wonder where I was? Did they ask Daddy

658
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 2: help me? That's going to ring in these parents' ears

659
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 2: for the rest of their lives. As Crumbley's mom as

660
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 2: to do her jail time in the guesthouse of her lawyer. Okay,

661
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 2: our prayers with the victims' families and to the Crumleys

662
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 2: wrought in hell. We stop now and remember American hero

663
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 2: Sergeant Michael Moran, just forty six. Sergeant Moran shot in

664
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:20,720
Speaker 2: the line of duty, leaving behind two grieving daughters, Catalina

665
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 2: and Novelynn. American Hero Sergeant Michael Moran. Thank you to

666
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 2: our guests, but especially to you for being with us

667
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 2: tonight and every night.

668
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 5: Nancy Gray signing off good night,