WEBVTT - Antiwork Part 1: The Great Resignation 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:10.920 Welcome to America. It's not great. Here's a podcast, all right, 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:14.240 this is this is it could happen here the podcast 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:17.840 Welcome it is if you're an international listener and you're 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:20.560 not American. That was really get the fuck off of 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:24.160 our podcast, just like left people all like, are you 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:26.560 going to do one for every other country? I think 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:28.920 they're being rude for barging in the internet is clearly 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:33.199 American soil. I would pay good money for a wackos things. 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:35.640 But with Robert saying all the all the countries of 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:41.320 the world, well, you know what you need to do 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:43.000 in order to be able to pay good money for 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:45.640 something Garrison, you need to you need to. You need 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:49.519 to get money by by working well to be born rich. 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:52.120 But if you're not born rich, you have to work. 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:55.639 And a lot of people are saying what if we did, 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:58.600 what if we didn't? And now they have a subreddit 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:01.000 And that's what we're talking about to day anti work. 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:04.720 Uh not just the subreddit, but that's why we're talking 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:08.640 about it today because the anti work subreddit has grown hugely, 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:10.600 um and it's got like a milli it's or it's 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:13.120 it's like doubled. It's been around for years. It's more 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:17.399 than doubled. It's it's almost. It's almost. Yeah, it's it's 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.959 it's well, I'll have the numbers for later. Yeah yeah, okay, great. 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:23.240 UM So, Garrison, why don't you kick us off? Now 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:26.319 that I've let everyone know what to expect, will stop 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:30.199 working UM in solidarity with the anti work movement. Thanks 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:34.480 Robert UM, You're welcome. So yeah, the past few months, 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.000 if you're anything like us, um and and if you're 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:39.720 online in the same ways that we are, you've you've 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:43.760 probably seen like a flurry of posts and screenshots depicting 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:48.200 text conversations between like an employee and their boss. Typically, 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:50.480 the boss like asks them to come in when they 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:52.000 said they were going to have to be have to 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:55.360 have having to have time off or something. The employee objects, 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:57.960 the boston gets mad and makes threats and demands the 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:01.040 employee be a better team player or some bullshit like that. 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:04.280 Um and and then like the employee said something like 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:06.840 well you know what, actually I quit, good luck filling 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:10.079 the shift now buy and then the boss like pleads 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:12.600 that the now former employee comes back and offers like 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:16.120 concessions and end of screenshots. So pretty soon this type 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:20.520 of like screenshotted text conversation became like a meme format 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:23.720 with with people joking and obviously like staging fake ones 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:26.240 as well. Uh, you know, similar to the scene I 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:29.840 just described. But but but by all accounts, this trend 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:34.720 started incredibly like sincerely with with genuine text conversations showcasing 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:38.200 like worker abuse um and and uh you know, bosses 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:41.760 being unreasonable and cruel um and some people putting their 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:44.760 jobs just to stand up for themselves and um, all 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:46.600 the stuff is kind of tied up in the worker 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:50.080 shortage kind of miss the great resignation as a as 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:54.200 a loud yes yeah people of people resigning. And then 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:56.280 you know a lot of like big companies complaining about 0:02:56.280 --> 0:03:00.280 worker shortages um and and central to this like text 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:04.959 conversation online kind of meme trend thing and and employee 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:10.160 resignations is a subredit called anti work. So the antiwork 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:13.880 subredit has has been a growing place specifically the past year. Um. 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:18.959 Their motto is unemployment for all, not just for the rich. Uh. 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:21.600 It's a it's a good good it is it is 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:25.519 a solid it's a solid botto of their their their 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:28.959 own like a description is uh a subredit for those 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:31.360 who want to end work, are curious about ending work, 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:33.520 want to get the most out of a work free life, 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:36.920 want more information on anti work ideas, and want personal 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:40.440 help with their own jobs slash work related struggles. So 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:44.760 back in back in February, um it only the subord 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:48.360 it's been around, But back in February it had like 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:52.880 two hundred and thirty five thousand UM subs, and now 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:55.360 it has over one point one million UM It's grown. 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:58.360 Most of that growth has been in the past two months. 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:01.720 Uh it's it has kind of kind of exploded in popularity. 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:05.640 Um and actually it got it got so big, and 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:08.000 there's so many posts on it that they have to 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:09.840 they have they have now they have to like restrict 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:13.360 text message conversation screenshots to only being allowed to be 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:16.000 posted like on one day a week, just because of 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:19.160 the intense influx of of these posts, you know, some 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:23.240 of them genuine, others maybe not so much. Um And 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:25.520 And even though the suburn it may not be the 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:29.480 biggest in terms of like subscribers, um it's it has 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:33.520 more like daily posts than something like the Wall Street 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:36.440 bets suburb it has, so even though it doesn't have 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:39.919 as many subscribers, the amount of actual like posting on 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:42.240 it is is higher than a lot of other suburates 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:45.480 as well, So it is it is growing in popularity, 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:49.800 like in in in multiple ways. It feels a little 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:52.679 bit right now like the social media equivalent of at 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:54.520 of a sort of Dama lea. It's like Wall Street 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:59.440 bets made a not insignificant uh splash earlier this year. 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:01.919 It was it was quite a thing for the national 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:05.479 economy for a little while there. Um and Anti Work 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:07.839 hasn't had that moment, but I kind of feel like 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:10.279 it might be getting close to critical mass, Like something, 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.440 something might come out of this um which I think 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:16.040 would be rad For for the record, I think would 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:19.600 be rad absolutely, And you know, it may not be 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:22.360 one big thing, but it could be a lot of 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:26.039 smaller things, right. You know, sometimes it's harder to see 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:30.080 bigger change when you're like having more anarchist adjacent ideas 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:32.360 and and and the and the anti works that when 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:35.800 it does does try to keep itself being a radical 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:39.760 suborb and does trying to fight off neoliberal sentiments and stuff, 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:42.720 And there have been there have been some complaints. I've 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:44.839 seen a people being like, ah, the liberals have gotten 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:47.440 in and and people are talking about like, well, I 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:49.560 just really want a life that's like I'm not stressed 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:51.520 all the time, and I have enough money for for 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:53.920 bills and stuff. Like people have been talking about like, oh, 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:56.560 this job, Like I I left my old job and 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:58.640 I got into a better situation. That's good. And there's 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:02.000 complaints about that. And I think it is important to 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:05.400 like push against de radicalizing the sub credit. But I 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:07.920 don't think it's bad that you're getting a lot of 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:10.640 liberals in there who are not turned off by the 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:14.680 name anti work um, and I think that's I think 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:17.680 it's positive that that they're even if they're you know, 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:21.040 they're not coming at it from kind of a revolutionary perspective. 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:24.520 But hey, it's okay to quit my job if if 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:26.520 the conditions are shipped and try to find a place 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:28.839 where I'm treated better. If that's their in road to 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:34.240 this kind of thought, I still think that's pretty pretty awesome. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:38.000 because I mean it's not realistic for every single person. 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.120 Well and actually it is realistic for every single person 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:43.640 to quit their job, but it's it's not realistic for 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:46.840 only a few people to write and sometimes if if 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:48.320 not if if everyone's not going to do it, like 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:51.000 literally everyone. Then he knows some people can't can't afford 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:53.080 to quit their job um right now because they have 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:56.479 like kids, defeat or whatever um for themselves or you know, 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:58.800 there's a lot there's a lot of reasons, which I'll 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:00.960 kind of talk a little bit more about later. So 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:04.240 and so the term anti work just does not does 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:08.000 not come from the subredit um. And anti work has 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:10.480 been like a post left term for a while now, 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:14.200 and it kind of kind of applies to a broad 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:20.000 spectrum of like anarchist adjacent kind of thought around, Hey, 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:23.280 if we're gonna if we're gonna question like capitalism, uh 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:25.840 and the state, we should probably also question just the 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:28.320 idea of work itself and how it functions, and how 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:31.560 the state kind of works only possible with the state, 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:35.600 and and it's that specific line line of thinking. UM. 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.120 A few examples of like of like you know, seminal 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:44.080 anti work books UM is. One of them is Bob 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:48.160 Black's The Abolition of Work. UM. Crime Think has a 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:50.720 really good book just called work, which is another another 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:52.400 one that gets referenced a lot even even in the 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:56.680 subredit And also Bullshit Jobs by David Graber and uh 0:07:56.800 --> 0:08:00.520 Bullshit Jobs was also kind of partially inspired by Blacks 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:03.360 the abolition of work. Um, all of those are are 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:07.200 great resources and uh specifically like bullshit Jobs is great 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:10.040 in like a like a for a modern outlook on this, 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:12.720 like Bob Black's book was written, was written a while ago, 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:16.080 and the Bullshit Jobs is definitely very timely and even 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:19.880 even even crimes things. Work book also also addresses stuff 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.800 or even though it wasn't not written within the past. 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:26.080 I think it is maybe slightly older than than a decade, 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:28.320 but I think that they are updating it with more 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:31.040 information about like the gig economy and stuff like that. Yeah, 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:36.319 and it's it's not as it's characterized as as anti 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:38.600 work is often characterised by critics. It's not saying like 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:41.520 nobody should have to do anything in a way, it's 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:45.319 not Actually we'll talk about Diogenes later. Um, but it's 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:47.959 not everyone should just like lay around and do nothing. 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.880 It's people shouldn't have to do the thing that we 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:55.040 call work, which is destroy your body or your mind 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:59.160 or both. Uh, most of your waking hours, most of 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:01.840 your life. The hope that you'll get ten years as 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:05.400 an old person to not do that, and and and 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:07.280 and a little bit that that that's bad. That's a 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:09.160 bad way to be a person, like a bad way 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:10.880 to have to be And it's not bad to do that, 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:14.000 it's it's bad that you have to do that. Yeah, yeah, 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:15.520 and I mean and and there is a there is 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:17.560 a little bit of it that is about finding time 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:21.120 to chill out, which which was just going to apply 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:22.400 a lot of you know, a lot of the ways 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:24.600 if you have to keep a job, you know, the 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:26.520 different ways you can you can go about that job 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:28.559 that does that makes it so doesn't like kill you. 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:30.920 One of my favorite ways to think about anti work 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:33.960 is just like anti capitalism put into actual practice. So 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:36.120 it's sort of you know, just debating online about anti 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:38.679 capitalism as some you know, future things like no, like 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:42.679 what can you do to actually you know, make capitalism 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:44.960 less important part of how you live your life every day, 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:47.920 which means you know, not obsessing over careers and all 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:49.880 these kind of other things. So I think I think, 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.360 first of all, it might be useful to kind of 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:54.400 think about, like what do we actually mean by work 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:57.040 because works kind of a works like a it's it 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:59.280 has a lot of definitions to be depending on what's 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:02.480 like you depend depending on like what you mean by it, right, 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:06.120 Is it just like wage labor? Is it just forced labor? Um? 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:09.040 You know, is cooking for yourself or your family considered work? 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:12.800 But not always? But you know, like at times when 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:14.720 I when when I when I'm like relaxed, I quite 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.440 enjoy cooking for friends and family. But but certainly, but 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:19.959 certainly it can feel like work sometimes, especially if you 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:22.480 especially if you just got home from like a work shift, 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:26.880 so in a way, like work creates more work. Um, 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:28.760 And it's it's not it's it's it kind of it's 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.800 doesn't It isn't just it isn't just about like wage 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:33.560 labor or something. It can kind of apply to a 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:36.920 lot of ways about how you live your life. You know, 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:40.960 there's a lot of looking laying down wood chips or sod. 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:43.360 If that's like your job, every day can be like 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:46.800 a miserable, backbreaking process. If you actually have a huge 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:48.560 yard or like own a little bit of land and 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:51.359 you're making your own garden, that can be an intensely 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:53.280 like the best part of your week. It can be 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:57.760 a great Yeah, yeah, it's it's not. The problem is 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:01.360 not the individual tasks necessary early, it's what work is 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:05.400 as a as a a platonic kind of concept in 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:08.640 our society. Yeah, not and and again one of the things, 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:10.320 and I think this is one of the things speaking 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:13.040 of you talked about David Graber earlier, who's a an 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:16.320 anarchist anthropologist and widely seen to be like one of 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:19.200 the most brilliant anthropologists of his generation. He did. He 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:22.800 recently deceased, but a book that he wrote before he 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:26.400 died with another uh and another fellow, came out recently 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:28.920 called The Dawn of Everything that talks a lot about 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:34.200 how Yeah, these ideas, that kind of capitalism has a 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:38.320 vested interest in you believing that the world was always 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:41.080 hard in the way that it's hard, by which I 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:44.000 mean like, in order to get basic necessities you have 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:47.760 to make somebody else rich um or find some grift 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:50.760 of your own. And as opposed to like, yeah, life 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:54.200 is always hard, but life wasn't didn't always involve labor 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:57.000 the way we think about it. Labor has not been 0:11:57.040 --> 0:11:59.920 a constant in human civilization. In fact, most of humans 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:02.600 realization people have not done a thing that we would 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:05.880 recognize as labor. And I think also even if you 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:08.840 go towards things that like look more like labor to us, right, 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:10.040 Like I don't know, like look look like if you 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.720 look at like feudal levies, right, you're a peasant. You 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:15.199 have to give some amount of grain to your lord. 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:19.480 But like, okay, we work way longer than medieval peasants did. 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:22.040 And not only do we work longer is something Greaper 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:24.000 and David Beno talk about in that book, is like, yeah, 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:25.960 like not only do we work much longer, Like the 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:29.160 amount that we work would have been considered absolutely, like 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:31.839 even even a feudal lord would look at that much 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:34.880 work and go no, like this is this is this 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:37.319 is like and you know, and I think there's there's 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:40.760 another great hasn't. As another point um he wrote a 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:44.320 piece called Turning Modes of Production inside Out where he 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:46.360 has this argument that like, okay, so if if you 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:50.000 take you know, if you take like Plato, right, you're 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:51.439 like you take any of the Greek philosophers, even the 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:56.960 conservative ones, and you show them this the thing, the 0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:59.120 thing that we do every day. Right, you know, you 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:02.320 have your you're completely under the command of another person 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:06.800 for like at least a third probably more of your day. Yeah, 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:10.480 I monitor you and Garrison's bathroom breaks. I look at 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:15.840 your texts with family and friends. Um, it's it's really situation. Yeah, 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:19.920 it's an incredibly strict surveillance state. From Robert Evans. Yeah yeah, 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:21.520 this is like like you know, if you show a 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:24.800 Greek person that this is like this is the apocalypse 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:26.280 to them, this is this is the worst thing that 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:30.599 could possibly happen. It's every single person in society has 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:34.400 like essentially been reduced to a slave, and you know 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:39.200 that's bad and it doesn't have to be like it's 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:41.400 not that they've been because I want to push back 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:44.040 on that terminology because it can go to some uncomfortable places. 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:47.160 It's not that they are treated as a slave. It's 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:50.760 that in the hours in which they are expected to labor, 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:55.400 there's a societal expectation that they act as the property 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:58.200 of whoever owns the business or manages them. Right. The 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:00.720 idea of like if it if it like that, that 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:03.439 attitude from like like working in a kitchen or or 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:05.439 working at a fast food restaurant, like if you lean, 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:07.840 if you're if you can lean, you can clean, Like 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:11.839 that attitude is saying you do not have any autonomy 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.120 when you are at work, you are the property of 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:17.480 the of the employer while you are at work. Um, 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:19.360 I think, yeah, and I think and I think, you know, 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:21.320 but I think the specific thing with Greece is that, like, 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:23.120 you know, you the only way you could do that 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:25.720 to someone in Greece is if you owned them. Yeah, 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:27.840 Like you know, I'm like, the grease has wage labor, right, 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.400 but the only people who like it has wage labor, 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:32.880 but it has wage labor for slaves. And that's like 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:36.040 it right, like this, you know, and this is this 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:38.160 is not like obviously not to say that, like you know, 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:40.960 we're like having a job is the same thing as slavery, 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:44.120 But it's just to say that, like the kinds of 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:47.440 things that we think of as normal, like are things 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:50.200 that like the people who you know that the people 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:51.960 who run the system and the people who you know 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:55.480 get cited all the time justify stuff would have looked 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:57.760 at as like the worst thing that could possibly have 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:02.840 happened to a society. Yeah, like daily life for a 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.880 very substantial chunk of of the American workforce is that 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:11.080 would be a nightmare to large percentages of the human 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:17.720 population prior to the modern period. Like it's it's and 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:20.560 and if you think about it that way, like one 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:22.720 of the things Graab does a good job of going 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:27.440 into UM is like the way in which uh and 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:29.080 this is also something that comes up in in in 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:31.320 Tribe by younger, the way in which, like, during the 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:35.680 early period of colonization of North America, UM, it was 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:41.040 very common for you know, Europeans to leave the cities 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:44.680 and in towns being established behind um and and join 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:47.760 up with indigenals, with the tribes. The reverse never happened, 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:51.520 like like not willingly, not without kidnapping being a part 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:54.360 of it. UM. And it's because like their attitude was, 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:56.920 they were looking at the lives these people were living 0:15:56.920 --> 0:15:59.640 in these cities and like, well, why would you agree 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:04.200 to do that? And Um, this is turning anyway, Garrison, 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:06.360 you should you should take us back on the rails. 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:10.760 This is getting more but first time for products. You 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.680 know what has nothing to do with the fact that 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:18.720 human beings are forced to labor for basic necessities in 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:21.960 order to keep up a system that steals the freedom 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:25.080 of the many in order to provide impossible liberty to 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:27.920 the few. You know what isn't related to that. Sure, 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:33.200 the advertise industrial complex not has nothing to do with it, 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:37.000 totally unrelated. Why would you say that? Garrison? By the way, 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:39.480 did you know that McDonald's seg muffin is turning fifty 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:43.920 years old and it's giving the breakfast they're they're they're 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.200 they're selling it for its original price of sixty three 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:48.600 cents during breakfast hour six am to ten thirty am, 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:53.160 exclusively on the McDonald's app. I can't, I can't do 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:55.560 you guys? Do you guys want mcmuffins for sixty three cents? 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:58.080 That's the original price. I wonder what else the McDonald's 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.640 app is looking at on my phone? Any way, here's 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:16.240 some mats. Oh, we're back and we're talking about anti work. 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:19.240 We're talking about how works kind of bullshit for our jobs. 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:26.040 Um yeah, yeah, we sure are, We sure are. So 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:28.320 you know, like there is there there's a lot of 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:31.960 people who like enjoy stuff like gardening, fishing, carpentry, cooking, 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:34.520 and even like you know, just fighting this fighting computer 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.080 programming just for their own sake. Like a lot of 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:40.120 the stuff that we like, quote unquote needs to need 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.080 for society to function. A lot a lot of those 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:45.800 things people like doing as hobbies in their spirits. For 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.960 for example, if you're a police officer, gunning down a 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:50.919 man in cold blood might be kind of like your 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:53.159 day job and like frustrating, and there's a lot of 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:55.520 ship you have to deal with. If you're a mass shooter, though, 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:57.600 you just love it. You know, you're just doing it. 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:00.639 It's not work, it's not I mean for a mash 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:03.680 that is that is exactly what the cow writtenhouse thing 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:06.480 is though like like like like like actually like literally 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:09.720 that that that is what that is. This is we 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:11.240 I mean, we're not going to get the verdict today. 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.280 It doesn't look like not today, which isn't but by 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:17.199 the time this airs, it may already be done. Um. 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:18.880 But anyway, like a lot of a lot of people 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:21.560 like doing those things without getting paid, and sometimes you know, 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:24.719 often like costing themselves money. Right, A lot of these 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:27.600 hobbies are you know, are costly in their own in 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.439 their own right, um. And I think it's interesting to 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:33.000 you know, think, think of a society where you're well, 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:35.679 you're free to do those things when you feel like it, 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:37.600 and you don't need to drag yourself out of bed 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:39.399 at you know, early in the morning to work to 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:41.119 work a ten hour shift as like a cash register. 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:43.480 And it's not just even when you feel like it, 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:45.479 because there will be things that you have to do, 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:47.840 even if I will discuss this letter get yeah, yeah yeah, 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:51.560 in any like yeah, but there is it's not work 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.600 if you're if you're going out and harvesting food that 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:57.960 feeds you in your community. That's not like work in 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:00.480 the sense that we talk about modern work. The amount 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:02.840 of extra energy we have by not having ten hour 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:06.840 horrible shifts that drain ourselves mentally and physically and more 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:09.040 in with you know, the amount of most of the 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:12.320 work that we people do, as shown in David Graper's 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:15.440 bull bullshit Jobs, is like not necessary. Like a lot 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:17.399 of like a lot of the work that we do 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:21.760 as a whole is not There's there's some squibbling about 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:24.119 because the book was based off of a study, like 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:26.400 a survey that kind of showed a lot of very 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:28.879 significant chunk of the workforce thinks their job is like 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:32.320 pointless and doesn't do anything, And there's been some criticisms 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:34.720 of that, but it is undoubted that a very significant 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:37.760 amount of total labor time spent is stuff that isn't 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:43.720 necessary for really like reason of like making people's lives better. 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:46.440 And another part of like anti work theories is looking 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:48.560 is looking at our society as it's built, you know, 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:50.080 because it is it is HyG to anarchism, and be 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:53.360 like how much of this is actually necessary? Like how 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:56.239 do we do we really need a mac rib? Like 0:19:56.280 --> 0:20:00.560 do we do? We? We do? What do you? What 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:05.399 do you Garrison? Do we do not need to macrib? 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:13.359 We do not? Did the company training? And they the 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:16.160 company training says you can't attack someone for their religion, 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:19.879 and Garrison just attacked the McRib, So that actually is 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:21.680 you know, it is a religion for a lot of people. 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:24.880 Did you see that there there? They they did sell 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:27.560 a macribb n FT a few weeks ago. Um and 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:31.240 tell me that ship that is so upsetting, thank god 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:36.880 damn it. Yeah yeah, just saying society with no money 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:42.720 would not have so gosh. You know, I think thinking 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:44.879 of like anti work as as the theory. You know, 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:47.520 it's about cutting down those those unnecessary things that fill 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:51.720 people's time. Um. And you know and for a more 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:55.560 you know, forward forward looking sense. It's it's a general 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:57.960 kind of like a like abolition of the producer and 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:01.399