1 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to America. It's not great. Here's a podcast, all right, 2 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: this is this is it could happen here the podcast 3 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: Welcome it is if you're an international listener and you're 4 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: not American. That was really get the fuck off of 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: our podcast, just like left people all like, are you 6 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: going to do one for every other country? I think 7 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: they're being rude for barging in the internet is clearly 8 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: American soil. I would pay good money for a wackos things. 9 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: But with Robert saying all the all the countries of 10 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: the world, well, you know what you need to do 11 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: in order to be able to pay good money for 12 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: something Garrison, you need to you need to. You need 13 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 1: to get money by by working well to be born rich. 14 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: But if you're not born rich, you have to work. 15 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,639 Speaker 1: And a lot of people are saying what if we did, 16 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: what if we didn't? And now they have a subreddit 17 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: And that's what we're talking about to day anti work. 18 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: Uh not just the subreddit, but that's why we're talking 19 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: about it today because the anti work subreddit has grown hugely, 20 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: um and it's got like a milli it's or it's 21 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: it's like doubled. It's been around for years. It's more 22 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 1: than doubled. It's it's almost. It's almost. Yeah, it's it's 23 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: it's well, I'll have the numbers for later. Yeah yeah, okay, great. 24 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: UM So, Garrison, why don't you kick us off? Now 25 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: that I've let everyone know what to expect, will stop 26 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,199 Speaker 1: working UM in solidarity with the anti work movement. Thanks 27 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: Robert UM, You're welcome. So yeah, the past few months, 28 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: if you're anything like us, um and and if you're 29 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: online in the same ways that we are, you've you've 30 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: probably seen like a flurry of posts and screenshots depicting 31 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: text conversations between like an employee and their boss. Typically, 32 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: the boss like asks them to come in when they 33 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: said they were going to have to be have to 34 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: have having to have time off or something. The employee objects, 35 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: the boston gets mad and makes threats and demands the 36 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: employee be a better team player or some bullshit like that. 37 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: Um and and then like the employee said something like 38 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: well you know what, actually I quit, good luck filling 39 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,079 Speaker 1: the shift now buy and then the boss like pleads 40 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: that the now former employee comes back and offers like 41 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: concessions and end of screenshots. So pretty soon this type 42 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: of like screenshotted text conversation became like a meme format 43 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: with with people joking and obviously like staging fake ones 44 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: as well. Uh, you know, similar to the scene I 45 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: just described. But but but by all accounts, this trend 46 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: started incredibly like sincerely with with genuine text conversations showcasing 47 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: like worker abuse um and and uh you know, bosses 48 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: being unreasonable and cruel um and some people putting their 49 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: jobs just to stand up for themselves and um, all 50 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: the stuff is kind of tied up in the worker 51 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 1: shortage kind of miss the great resignation as a as 52 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: a loud yes yeah people of people resigning. And then 53 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: you know a lot of like big companies complaining about 54 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: worker shortages um and and central to this like text 55 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:04,959 Speaker 1: conversation online kind of meme trend thing and and employee 56 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: resignations is a subredit called anti work. So the antiwork 57 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: subredit has has been a growing place specifically the past year. Um. 58 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 1: Their motto is unemployment for all, not just for the rich. Uh. 59 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: It's a it's a good good it is it is 60 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,519 Speaker 1: a solid it's a solid botto of their their their 61 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,959 Speaker 1: own like a description is uh a subredit for those 62 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: who want to end work, are curious about ending work, 63 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: want to get the most out of a work free life, 64 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: want more information on anti work ideas, and want personal 65 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: help with their own jobs slash work related struggles. So 66 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: back in back in February, um it only the subord 67 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: it's been around, But back in February it had like 68 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: two hundred and thirty five thousand UM subs, and now 69 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: it has over one point one million UM It's grown. 70 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: Most of that growth has been in the past two months. 71 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: Uh it's it has kind of kind of exploded in popularity. 72 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: Um and actually it got it got so big, and 73 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: there's so many posts on it that they have to 74 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: they have they have now they have to like restrict 75 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: text message conversation screenshots to only being allowed to be 76 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: posted like on one day a week, just because of 77 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 1: the intense influx of of these posts, you know, some 78 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: of them genuine, others maybe not so much. Um And 79 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: And even though the suburn it may not be the 80 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: biggest in terms of like subscribers, um it's it has 81 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: more like daily posts than something like the Wall Street 82 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: bets suburb it has, so even though it doesn't have 83 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,919 Speaker 1: as many subscribers, the amount of actual like posting on 84 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: it is is higher than a lot of other suburates 85 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: as well, So it is it is growing in popularity, 86 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: like in in in multiple ways. It feels a little 87 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,679 Speaker 1: bit right now like the social media equivalent of at 88 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: of a sort of Dama lea. It's like Wall Street 89 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: bets made a not insignificant uh splash earlier this year. 90 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 1: It was it was quite a thing for the national 91 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 1: economy for a little while there. Um and Anti Work 92 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 1: hasn't had that moment, but I kind of feel like 93 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: it might be getting close to critical mass, Like something, 94 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: something might come out of this um which I think 95 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: would be rad For for the record, I think would 96 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: be rad absolutely, And you know, it may not be 97 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: one big thing, but it could be a lot of 98 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: smaller things, right. You know, sometimes it's harder to see 99 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: bigger change when you're like having more anarchist adjacent ideas 100 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: and and and the and the anti works that when 101 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: it does does try to keep itself being a radical 102 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: suborb and does trying to fight off neoliberal sentiments and stuff, 103 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: And there have been there have been some complaints. I've 104 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: seen a people being like, ah, the liberals have gotten 105 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: in and and people are talking about like, well, I 106 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: just really want a life that's like I'm not stressed 107 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: all the time, and I have enough money for for 108 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: bills and stuff. Like people have been talking about like, oh, 109 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: this job, Like I I left my old job and 110 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: I got into a better situation. That's good. And there's 111 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: complaints about that. And I think it is important to 112 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: like push against de radicalizing the sub credit. But I 113 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: don't think it's bad that you're getting a lot of 114 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: liberals in there who are not turned off by the 115 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: name anti work um, and I think that's I think 116 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: it's positive that that they're even if they're you know, 117 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 1: they're not coming at it from kind of a revolutionary perspective. 118 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: But hey, it's okay to quit my job if if 119 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: the conditions are shipped and try to find a place 120 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: where I'm treated better. If that's their in road to 121 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: this kind of thought, I still think that's pretty pretty awesome. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, 122 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: because I mean it's not realistic for every single person. 123 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: Well and actually it is realistic for every single person 124 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: to quit their job, but it's it's not realistic for 125 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 1: only a few people to write and sometimes if if 126 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: not if if everyone's not going to do it, like 127 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: literally everyone. Then he knows some people can't can't afford 128 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: to quit their job um right now because they have 129 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: like kids, defeat or whatever um for themselves or you know, 130 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: there's a lot there's a lot of reasons, which I'll 131 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: kind of talk a little bit more about later. So 132 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: and so the term anti work just does not does 133 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: not come from the subredit um. And anti work has 134 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: been like a post left term for a while now, 135 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: and it kind of kind of applies to a broad 136 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: spectrum of like anarchist adjacent kind of thought around, Hey, 137 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: if we're gonna if we're gonna question like capitalism, uh 138 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: and the state, we should probably also question just the 139 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: idea of work itself and how it functions, and how 140 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: the state kind of works only possible with the state, 141 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: and and it's that specific line line of thinking. UM. 142 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: A few examples of like of like you know, seminal 143 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: anti work books UM is. One of them is Bob 144 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: Black's The Abolition of Work. UM. Crime Think has a 145 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: really good book just called work, which is another another 146 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: one that gets referenced a lot even even in the 147 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: subredit And also Bullshit Jobs by David Graber and uh 148 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: Bullshit Jobs was also kind of partially inspired by Blacks 149 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: the abolition of work. Um, all of those are are 150 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: great resources and uh specifically like bullshit Jobs is great 151 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: in like a like a for a modern outlook on this, 152 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: like Bob Black's book was written, was written a while ago, 153 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: and the Bullshit Jobs is definitely very timely and even 154 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: even even crimes things. Work book also also addresses stuff 155 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: or even though it wasn't not written within the past. 156 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: I think it is maybe slightly older than than a decade, 157 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: but I think that they are updating it with more 158 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: information about like the gig economy and stuff like that. Yeah, 159 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:36,319 Speaker 1: and it's it's not as it's characterized as as anti 160 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: work is often characterised by critics. It's not saying like 161 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: nobody should have to do anything in a way, it's 162 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 1: not Actually we'll talk about Diogenes later. Um, but it's 163 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,959 Speaker 1: not everyone should just like lay around and do nothing. 164 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: It's people shouldn't have to do the thing that we 165 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: call work, which is destroy your body or your mind 166 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: or both. Uh, most of your waking hours, most of 167 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: your life. The hope that you'll get ten years as 168 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: an old person to not do that, and and and 169 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: and a little bit that that that's bad. That's a 170 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: bad way to be a person, like a bad way 171 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: to have to be And it's not bad to do that, 172 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: it's it's bad that you have to do that. Yeah, yeah, 173 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: and I mean and and there is a there is 174 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: a little bit of it that is about finding time 175 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: to chill out, which which was just going to apply 176 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: a lot of you know, a lot of the ways 177 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: if you have to keep a job, you know, the 178 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: different ways you can you can go about that job 179 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: that does that makes it so doesn't like kill you. 180 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: One of my favorite ways to think about anti work 181 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: is just like anti capitalism put into actual practice. So 182 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: it's sort of you know, just debating online about anti 183 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 1: capitalism as some you know, future things like no, like 184 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: what can you do to actually you know, make capitalism 185 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: less important part of how you live your life every day, 186 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: which means you know, not obsessing over careers and all 187 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: these kind of other things. So I think I think, 188 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: first of all, it might be useful to kind of 189 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: think about, like what do we actually mean by work 190 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: because works kind of a works like a it's it 191 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: has a lot of definitions to be depending on what's 192 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: like you depend depending on like what you mean by it, right, 193 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: Is it just like wage labor? Is it just forced labor? Um? 194 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: You know, is cooking for yourself or your family considered work? 195 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: But not always? But you know, like at times when 196 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: I when when I when I'm like relaxed, I quite 197 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: enjoy cooking for friends and family. But but certainly, but 198 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:19,959 Speaker 1: certainly it can feel like work sometimes, especially if you 199 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: especially if you just got home from like a work shift, 200 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: so in a way, like work creates more work. Um, 201 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: And it's it's not it's it's it kind of it's 202 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: doesn't It isn't just it isn't just about like wage 203 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: labor or something. It can kind of apply to a 204 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: lot of ways about how you live your life. You know, 205 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: there's a lot of looking laying down wood chips or sod. 206 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: If that's like your job, every day can be like 207 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: a miserable, backbreaking process. If you actually have a huge 208 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: yard or like own a little bit of land and 209 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,359 Speaker 1: you're making your own garden, that can be an intensely 210 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: like the best part of your week. It can be 211 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: a great Yeah, yeah, it's it's not. The problem is 212 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: not the individual tasks necessary early, it's what work is 213 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: as a as a a platonic kind of concept in 214 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: our society. Yeah, not and and again one of the things, 215 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 1: and I think this is one of the things speaking 216 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: of you talked about David Graber earlier, who's a an 217 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: anarchist anthropologist and widely seen to be like one of 218 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: the most brilliant anthropologists of his generation. He did. He 219 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: recently deceased, but a book that he wrote before he 220 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: died with another uh and another fellow, came out recently 221 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: called The Dawn of Everything that talks a lot about 222 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: how Yeah, these ideas, that kind of capitalism has a 223 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: vested interest in you believing that the world was always 224 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 1: hard in the way that it's hard, by which I 225 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: mean like, in order to get basic necessities you have 226 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: to make somebody else rich um or find some grift 227 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: of your own. And as opposed to like, yeah, life 228 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: is always hard, but life wasn't didn't always involve labor 229 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: the way we think about it. Labor has not been 230 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: a constant in human civilization. In fact, most of humans 231 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: realization people have not done a thing that we would 232 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: recognize as labor. And I think also even if you 233 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: go towards things that like look more like labor to us, right, 234 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: Like I don't know, like look look like if you 235 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: look at like feudal levies, right, you're a peasant. You 236 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 1: have to give some amount of grain to your lord. 237 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: But like, okay, we work way longer than medieval peasants did. 238 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: And not only do we work longer is something Greaper 239 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: and David Beno talk about in that book, is like, yeah, 240 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: like not only do we work much longer, Like the 241 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: amount that we work would have been considered absolutely, like 242 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,839 Speaker 1: even even a feudal lord would look at that much 243 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: work and go no, like this is this is this 244 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,319 Speaker 1: is like and you know, and I think there's there's 245 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: another great hasn't. As another point um he wrote a 246 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: piece called Turning Modes of Production inside Out where he 247 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: has this argument that like, okay, so if if you 248 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: take you know, if you take like Plato, right, you're 249 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 1: like you take any of the Greek philosophers, even the 250 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: conservative ones, and you show them this the thing, the 251 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: thing that we do every day. Right, you know, you 252 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: have your you're completely under the command of another person 253 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: for like at least a third probably more of your day. Yeah, 254 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: I monitor you and Garrison's bathroom breaks. I look at 255 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: your texts with family and friends. Um, it's it's really situation. Yeah, 256 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: it's an incredibly strict surveillance state. From Robert Evans. Yeah yeah, 257 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: this is like like you know, if you show a 258 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: Greek person that this is like this is the apocalypse 259 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: to them, this is this is the worst thing that 260 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,599 Speaker 1: could possibly happen. It's every single person in society has 261 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: like essentially been reduced to a slave, and you know 262 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: that's bad and it doesn't have to be like it's 263 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: not that they've been because I want to push back 264 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: on that terminology because it can go to some uncomfortable places. 265 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: It's not that they are treated as a slave. It's 266 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: that in the hours in which they are expected to labor, 267 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: there's a societal expectation that they act as the property 268 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: of whoever owns the business or manages them. Right. The 269 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 1: idea of like if it if it like that, that 270 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,439 Speaker 1: attitude from like like working in a kitchen or or 271 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 1: working at a fast food restaurant, like if you lean, 272 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: if you're if you can lean, you can clean, Like 273 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,839 Speaker 1: that attitude is saying you do not have any autonomy 274 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: when you are at work, you are the property of 275 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: the of the employer while you are at work. Um, 276 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, and I think and I think, you know, 277 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: but I think the specific thing with Greece is that, like, 278 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: you know, you the only way you could do that 279 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: to someone in Greece is if you owned them. Yeah, 280 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: Like you know, I'm like, the grease has wage labor, right, 281 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: but the only people who like it has wage labor, 282 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: but it has wage labor for slaves. And that's like 283 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: it right, like this, you know, and this is this 284 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: is not like obviously not to say that, like you know, 285 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: we're like having a job is the same thing as slavery, 286 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: But it's just to say that, like the kinds of 287 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: things that we think of as normal, like are things 288 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: that like the people who you know that the people 289 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: who run the system and the people who you know 290 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: get cited all the time justify stuff would have looked 291 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: at as like the worst thing that could possibly have 292 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: happened to a society. Yeah, like daily life for a 293 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: very substantial chunk of of the American workforce is that 294 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: would be a nightmare to large percentages of the human 295 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: population prior to the modern period. Like it's it's and 296 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: and if you think about it that way, like one 297 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: of the things Graab does a good job of going 298 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: into UM is like the way in which uh and 299 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: this is also something that comes up in in in 300 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: Tribe by younger, the way in which, like, during the 301 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: early period of colonization of North America, UM, it was 302 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: very common for you know, Europeans to leave the cities 303 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: and in towns being established behind um and and join 304 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: up with indigenals, with the tribes. The reverse never happened, 305 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: like like not willingly, not without kidnapping being a part 306 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: of it. UM. And it's because like their attitude was, 307 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: they were looking at the lives these people were living 308 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: in these cities and like, well, why would you agree 309 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: to do that? And Um, this is turning anyway, Garrison, 310 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: you should you should take us back on the rails. 311 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: This is getting more but first time for products. You 312 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: know what has nothing to do with the fact that 313 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: human beings are forced to labor for basic necessities in 314 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: order to keep up a system that steals the freedom 315 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: of the many in order to provide impossible liberty to 316 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: the few. You know what isn't related to that. Sure, 317 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: the advertise industrial complex not has nothing to do with it, 318 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: totally unrelated. Why would you say that? Garrison? By the way, 319 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: did you know that McDonald's seg muffin is turning fifty 320 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: years old and it's giving the breakfast they're they're they're 321 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: they're selling it for its original price of sixty three 322 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: cents during breakfast hour six am to ten thirty am, 323 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: exclusively on the McDonald's app. I can't, I can't do 324 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: you guys? Do you guys want mcmuffins for sixty three cents? 325 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: That's the original price. I wonder what else the McDonald's 326 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: app is looking at on my phone? Any way, here's 327 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 1: some mats. Oh, we're back and we're talking about anti work. 328 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: We're talking about how works kind of bullshit for our jobs. 329 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: Um yeah, yeah, we sure are, We sure are. So 330 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: you know, like there is there there's a lot of 331 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 1: people who like enjoy stuff like gardening, fishing, carpentry, cooking, 332 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: and even like you know, just fighting this fighting computer 333 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: programming just for their own sake. Like a lot of 334 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,120 Speaker 1: the stuff that we like, quote unquote needs to need 335 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: for society to function. A lot a lot of those 336 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: things people like doing as hobbies in their spirits. For 337 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: for example, if you're a police officer, gunning down a 338 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 1: man in cold blood might be kind of like your 339 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: day job and like frustrating, and there's a lot of 340 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: ship you have to deal with. If you're a mass shooter, though, 341 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: you just love it. You know, you're just doing it. 342 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 1: It's not work, it's not I mean for a mash 343 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 1: that is that is exactly what the cow writtenhouse thing 344 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: is though like like like like like actually like literally 345 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: that that that is what that is. This is we 346 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: I mean, we're not going to get the verdict today. 347 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: It doesn't look like not today, which isn't but by 348 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,199 Speaker 1: the time this airs, it may already be done. Um. 349 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:18,880 Speaker 1: But anyway, like a lot of a lot of people 350 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: like doing those things without getting paid, and sometimes you know, 351 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,719 Speaker 1: often like costing themselves money. Right, A lot of these 352 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: hobbies are you know, are costly in their own in 353 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 1: their own right, um. And I think it's interesting to 354 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: you know, think, think of a society where you're well, 355 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 1: you're free to do those things when you feel like it, 356 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: and you don't need to drag yourself out of bed 357 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: at you know, early in the morning to work to 358 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: work a ten hour shift as like a cash register. 359 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: And it's not just even when you feel like it, 360 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:45,479 Speaker 1: because there will be things that you have to do, 361 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: even if I will discuss this letter get yeah, yeah yeah, 362 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: in any like yeah, but there is it's not work 363 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: if you're if you're going out and harvesting food that 364 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: feeds you in your community. That's not like work in 365 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: the sense that we talk about modern work. The amount 366 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: of extra energy we have by not having ten hour 367 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: horrible shifts that drain ourselves mentally and physically and more 368 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: in with you know, the amount of most of the 369 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: work that we people do, as shown in David Graper's 370 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: bull bullshit Jobs, is like not necessary. Like a lot 371 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 1: of like a lot of the work that we do 372 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: as a whole is not There's there's some squibbling about 373 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: because the book was based off of a study, like 374 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 1: a survey that kind of showed a lot of very 375 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 1: significant chunk of the workforce thinks their job is like 376 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: pointless and doesn't do anything, And there's been some criticisms 377 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: of that, but it is undoubted that a very significant 378 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: amount of total labor time spent is stuff that isn't 379 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: necessary for really like reason of like making people's lives better. 380 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: And another part of like anti work theories is looking 381 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: is looking at our society as it's built, you know, 382 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: because it is it is HyG to anarchism, and be 383 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,360 Speaker 1: like how much of this is actually necessary? Like how 384 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,239 Speaker 1: do we do we really need a mac rib? Like 385 00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: do we do? We? We do? What do you? What 386 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: do you Garrison? Do we do not need to macrib? 387 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: We do not? Did the company training? And they the 388 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,160 Speaker 1: company training says you can't attack someone for their religion, 389 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: and Garrison just attacked the McRib, So that actually is 390 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 1: you know, it is a religion for a lot of people. 391 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,880 Speaker 1: Did you see that there there? They they did sell 392 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: a macribb n FT a few weeks ago. Um and 393 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: tell me that ship that is so upsetting, thank god 394 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 1: damn it. Yeah yeah, just saying society with no money 395 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 1: would not have so gosh. You know, I think thinking 396 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 1: of like anti work as as the theory. You know, 397 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: it's about cutting down those those unnecessary things that fill 398 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: people's time. Um. And you know and for a more 399 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: you know, forward forward looking sense. It's it's a general 400 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: kind of like a like abolition of the producer and 401 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 1: consumer based society. Um. So you know, life is not 402 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: dedicated to the production and consumption of of goods and commodities. 403 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: So you know this this applies not not just a 404 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: capitalism but also to you know, like state socialism um, 405 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: where you know, work is still you know, a big 406 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,919 Speaker 1: part of state socialism UM. And I think you know 407 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: it's humans. It's it's it posits the future that humans 408 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 1: can be way, way, way more free when they you know, 409 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: can reclaim their time from jobs and employment, um, instead 410 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: of you know, spending a lot of their time doing 411 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: that and spending spending a lot of like not just time, 412 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: but also just like their energy. Right, because even if 413 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: you work, you know, eight hours a day, you still 414 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: have a majority of the day to yourself. But you're exhausted, 415 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 1: you can't do it, you can't do much, right, It's 416 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: it drains you of everything. So you know, the main 417 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 1: point one of the main points of like of the 418 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: Abolition of work essay by Bob Black is but like 419 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: there's no one should work because because work is as 420 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 1: defined as like as like as like a forced labor 421 00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 1: practice um. Is. You can kind of track this to 422 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: being the source of most of the misery in the 423 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: world from you know, in in individual people, um, who 424 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: are forced to do this. So like this is where 425 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of their pain comes from. 426 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 1: Um is this is this is this forced labor concept. UM. 427 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: I think I think a good a good way. You know, 428 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: there is you know the point that Robert brought up 429 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: earlier is like you know, what about the tasks that 430 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: aren't fun? You know what about what about the stuff 431 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: that isn't isn't maybe as as enjoyable. Um. You know, 432 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: there's this there's there's a list of list of things 433 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: that the standard responses. Who's going to clean up the poop? Right? 434 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: That's that's the thing. So you know I I kind 435 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: of I I kind of I kind of look at 436 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,719 Speaker 1: this as like the I kind of kind of look 437 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,159 Speaker 1: at this as like whenever I have to turn the compost, 438 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: which is not my favorite thing to do. I I 439 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:52,360 Speaker 1: don't look forward to having to turn over our massive, shitty, 440 00:22:52,640 --> 00:23:00,080 Speaker 1: rotting compost pile. Not not my favorite thing. Um. But no, 441 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,679 Speaker 1: but now like if there's if if there's like friends 442 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: around and we're playing music and we're all we have 443 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: like some like have I have have like an iced 444 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 1: tea or Dr Pepper, and we're like talking as we're 445 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: turning the compost. It's a lot more doable. You know. 446 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: It's there's there's it's it's it's one task that's going 447 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: to help all of us in the future. Um and 448 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: I'm not getting watched over by a boss to fill 449 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: a certain quote so I can pay my rent. Right, 450 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: It's it's this, it's this. It's this thing that helps 451 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: everybody and I and I do it because I want, 452 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: I want the goal of it to succeed. So there's 453 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:39,959 Speaker 1: there's there's gonna there's always gonna be tasks that are 454 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,919 Speaker 1: less pleasant than others. You know, what we can do is, 455 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 1: you know, imagine a world where the amount of work 456 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,919 Speaker 1: actually needed to be done is greatly reduced so that 457 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: the tasks that are necessary and some of them unpleasant, 458 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: can be spread out, um and among more people, because 459 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: less people will be wasting upwards of eight hours a day, 460 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 1: five days a week doing mostly pointless time filling work. 461 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: Because yeah, there's there's gonna be things that sucked, and 462 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: we'll be able to do those a lot better if 463 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: there's more people and we don't have to waste our 464 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: times doing stuff that is is honestly a lot more 465 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 1: bullshit than actually scooping bullshit. Wow, what a good joke. 466 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: Speaking it's time. It's time to scoop up some more ads. Wait, 467 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 1: really haven't we done too? No, we only only one. 468 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: All right, we went a while without doing one. Guys, 469 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: listen to the products because everyone loves a service. It's 470 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 1: not like the thing we're talking about is bad. It's 471 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: different than that. So it's fine. Yep, we're back and 472 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: we're still still talking about into work. Um, I I do. 473 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: This is something that the crime think work h points 474 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 1: out and you know it's a pretty it's pretty obvious 475 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 1: thing I've I've certainly thought of this before is that, 476 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 1: you know, we've been told that the like technological progress 477 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: will soon liberate humanity from the need to do work 478 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: or from you know, having to do work as much um. 479 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: And today we have the capabilities that you know, our 480 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 1: ancestors couldn't have even imagined for free, the amount of 481 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: work that we could get done. Um. But these predictions 482 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: still like aren't true. We're still working more than ever, 483 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: even though we have developed so much um technologically, we're 484 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,239 Speaker 1: still working more than ever. And if I think it's 485 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 1: silly to think that we'll we'll, we'll reach like a 486 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: magic threshold where somehow now we have less work to 487 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 1: do because we'll have like I don't know, like robots 488 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: being a server at Adam Adam McDonald's or whatever. Right 489 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: where there's still there, there's still is forcing people into 490 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 1: this thing because this is the only way that we 491 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: can live, right. This is we've we've built our whole 492 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,919 Speaker 1: society around getting work for money. So this is the 493 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: only the only thing that we can do. Yeah, David Creeper. 494 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 1: One of the things he's arguing in Bullshit Jobs is basically, 495 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: you know, okay, so so if if you have like 496 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: you have the Soviet economy, right, okay, so the Soviet 497 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,880 Speaker 1: economy has has the policy of of full employment. And 498 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: for a little bit they were like, okay, what if 499 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: we make everyone work less? And then they stopped and 500 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: then like everything went to ship, so you know, okay, 501 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: but if if if you can't make people work less 502 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: hours and everyone has to work, what do you do? 503 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: It was like, okay, well you pay a bunch of 504 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: people to like stand at a doorway, right now, we 505 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,679 Speaker 1: also do this And then one of the graps, like 506 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: the funniest points that he brings up is that the 507 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,159 Speaker 1: total number of bureaucrats in the x USSR like increased 508 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: dramatically after the sr fell, which is incredible, and you 509 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: know what what it points to is that like, yeah, 510 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,959 Speaker 1: you know, Grebar called this total bureaucratization, which is that 511 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: you know what, what we did, instead of like giving 512 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: ourselves more free time is created this just like endless, enormous, 513 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 1: incredibly violent bureaucracy that all of us have to spend 514 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,399 Speaker 1: all of our time, like dealing with bullshit from our 515 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,719 Speaker 1: insurance companies and like fighting with like the Comcast service 516 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: person and all of this just like you know, incredibly 517 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: violent to humanizing stuff that you know, it's it's it's 518 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,199 Speaker 1: a make work program, right, it's but it's a make 519 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: work program that just the work that it makes everyone 520 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 1: is making everyone's lives miserable. And we could just not 521 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: do this. Mh yeah, I mean we could. It's always 522 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: more complicated than that, right, because the thing that is 523 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 1: when we talk about anti work, I think that's on 524 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: the other side of this is like Okay, well, what 525 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 1: if you get a kid, how are you going to 526 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: feed that kid? Like what like yeah, how are you 527 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: going to keep him in a house? Like how not 528 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: even just if you have a kid. But like, yeah, 529 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: you people die in our society when they do not 530 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 1: have access to adequate resources. And the only way to 531 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,120 Speaker 1: have access to adequate resources is to be born rich 532 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: or to work. Those are your options. Yeah, this is 533 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: why without without robust mutual aid and a commitment by 534 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: a lot of people to try to make sure that 535 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: a lifestyle is sustained ball outside of you know, this system, 536 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 1: Like it's not impossible, but it's somewhere along the line 537 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: there has to be input. I mean, yeah, like we've 538 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 1: we've been talking about Yeah, we've been talking about antiwork 539 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: as like as kind of like a broad hopeful like 540 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: future goal in some other you know, post scarcity, well 541 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: not not post scarcity, but like it's post like a 542 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 1: post crumbling, post kind of collapse future. But I think, 543 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: you know, for us now, as you know, the Antiworks 544 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: is about people now, right, the Antiworks episode, It is 545 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: not about a future world. I think the anti work 546 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: now is like an alternative to the obsession with living 547 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: your life with the goal of a career. Yes, it's 548 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: about trend you know, it's it's like a project to 549 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: radically reframe the how we think of work. And leisure. Um, 550 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: it's like like like like a cognitive antidote to like 551 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: the that's like this culture of like hustle and hard 552 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: work which is like taken over our minds and and 553 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: and our time. So it's like for for those who 554 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: can't just resign from their jaw for whatever reason, whatever moment. 555 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: The anti work is about like thinking of this movement 556 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: as like the antithesis to the mainstream capitalist hustle culture. 557 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,479 Speaker 1: You know that that includes like slacking off more, finding 558 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: ways to waste time, possibly even finding ways to steal 559 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 1: or scam your boss. I I've I've read certain certain 560 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: alleged ways of doing this inside the Anti Work for days, 561 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: but where they got it from? But yeah, no, but 562 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: like you no, like there is you know, like ways 563 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: to like scam scam whatever corporation you work for. Right 564 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,719 Speaker 1: that that there's been examples shared in the anti right 565 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: in the Anti Works, I brut it. So you know, 566 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: it's about actually like finding, you know, making sure that 567 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: you hate your work because you should, and then figuring 568 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: out how to live your life with that in mind. 569 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: And I think what one of the really hard parts 570 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: about this is for people who like kind of like 571 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: their job people who are like you, who like either 572 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: like their job or think it's like kind of important 573 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: or like they're special to have it, right, it's like, oh, 574 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: you're like, I'm lucky to have such a good job, 575 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: because like, when you're stuck in that mindset, you can 576 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: often put in like a lot of extra unpaid labor 577 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: because you think it's important because you're like, oh, no, 578 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: this is worth doing because it's gonna have some like 579 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: benefits to the world. So you end up like putting 580 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: in actually more work that you you don't actually get 581 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: paid for, and like it's about trying to like kill 582 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: that instinct as well. So that's a whole, a whole 583 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: way to think about like working, because like we're gonna 584 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: be stuck. A lot of people are gonna started doing 585 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: it for for for a while. So how can you 586 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,479 Speaker 1: kind of reframe what we do on the job and 587 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: how kind of jobs live in our minds when we 588 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: are at home. And I think the best thing about 589 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: what you've said, in my opinion, is the idea that 590 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: like this is not the importance is not on whether 591 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: or not this this causes everyone to stop having to 592 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: work immediately, Like whether or not it leads to you know, 593 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: directly to Like, the measure of success of this movement 594 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: isn't that nobody ever has to work again. That's a 595 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: that's a long term goal. The measure of the success 596 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: of this movement is that people accept in mass that no, 597 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: the American dream as it's sold to people is not 598 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: a good thing too. It's not a thing. To aspire 599 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: to work is bullshit, and we should aspire to a 600 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: society that doesn't do it. It's getting back, honestly, like 601 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: it's getting back to some of the ship that people 602 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: were talking about in like when The Jetsons was on TV, 603 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: the idea that like, well, with labor saving devices, the 604 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: like a hard work week will be four hours and 605 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: like that's the way life will be for everybody, and 606 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: like um, and the it's the acceptance that like, no, 607 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: a better future involves me not having it. No one 608 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: having to spend forty hours a week of their limited 609 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: human life working at a fucking sonic or like listening 610 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: to some middle manager brate them for not answering phones 611 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: fast enough. Um, that doesn't exist for any human being 612 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: in a world that is achievable and better than the 613 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 1: one that we live in. Like convincing people of that 614 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: and getting that to be widely accepted. Is I think 615 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: what I think what is what I would consider the 616 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: terms of victory in in this particular struggle kind of 617 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: moving on from this side of things into like the 618 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: Great designation and the other kind of things that people 619 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: are doing. So um, in August alone, four point three 620 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: million Americans voluntarily left their jobs um and the rate 621 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: of people quitting increased to a a decent a decent 622 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: record high of like a two point nine percent, according 623 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics. So and this this, this, 624 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: this has been a growing trend. You can look at 625 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: like I think June was like a like a little 626 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 1: under four million. August was four point three. It's like 627 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: it was, you know, it's it's ramping. I I don't 628 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: know what if. I don't know if we have data 629 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: for September or October. Yet this was the most recent 630 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: one I could find. UM. So yeah, like it's stuff, 631 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: stuff is, stuff is going up. People are because because 632 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: people are like a big part of the antibo. It's like, yeah, 633 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 1: if your job sucks, you can quit it and probably 634 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: find another one that pays better. In decent time, especially 635 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: especially especially right now, Like right now, if your job 636 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: is really terrible, you have a decent chance of finding 637 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: a better one. Um. This wasn't the case like two 638 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: years ago. Um, it is the case that at this moment, 639 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: so a lot of the anti works SPB and it's like, yeah, 640 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: quit your job, like say funck you to your boss 641 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: and leave because if they're being shitty then they don't 642 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: deserve to have you. Um. So resigning has been been 643 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: a big part of this, and there has there has 644 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: been attempts at other kind of organized stuff and this 645 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: kind of falls into in my opinion, this kind of 646 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: falls into the same kind of traps as sole internet 647 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: organizing kind of always does. So the big thing that 648 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 1: they're organizing for is called Black Friday Blackout, which is 649 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: about kind of trying to get everyone to as many 650 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: people as possible to not work Black Friday, um and 651 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: not buy anything on Black Friday. Um So, like a 652 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: post from the subburnt here is like spread the word 653 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: call in sick if you're forced to work black on 654 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: Black Friday, spend time with your family instead, remain at 655 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: home and participate in your favorite activity on Friday November. 656 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: Talk to your family and friends about about your work 657 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: life struggles, pass up flyers, join our slash anti work. Um, 658 00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: so this is you know, I think this kind of 659 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: falls into the same like you know, general strike organized 660 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 1: online stuff that we talked about before. How kind of 661 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: like a lack of like real like in person solidarity 662 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: and like non internet you know, networking and organizing results 663 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 1: and stuff like this just you know, like proposed like 664 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,359 Speaker 1: one day strikes or actions that are ultimately kind of 665 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: non effectual, right, Like they can be like a good 666 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: symbol sometimes, but like you know, they're not. It's it's 667 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: it's not. It's not really gonna matter that much, even 668 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: even if it works. Well, what I think it'd be 669 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 1: cool if literally no store was open on Black Frida 670 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: because everyone quit. Yeah, that would be rad. But that's 671 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 1: that's not I don't that's not gonna really happen. Um, 672 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 1: it would be fun if it did, but like realistically, 673 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: it's it's not, it's not gonna happen. And there is 674 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: people on the sub who also point this out. There 675 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 1: there there there was there was a reply to this 676 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: post that was like, oh, look, another online call for 677 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 1: a general strike with no union support whatsoever. Don't worry y'all, 678 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: this one's this one is definitely gonna work. Um, So 679 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,800 Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, like there's a lot of people in 680 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: the sub also recognize that like without like actual like 681 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: organizing support um and in person stuff and you know, 682 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: networks to support people will on like you know, lengthy strikes. 683 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,360 Speaker 1: These types of things are kind of are mostly symbolic 684 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,320 Speaker 1: actions that will have you know, in the end, little 685 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: little impact. Um. They may make you feel powerful as 686 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: you're doing them, which is you know, which is good. 687 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 1: That is a lot of activism is actually just just 688 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 1: about you feeling powerful in that moment um. But you know, 689 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: as as an end goals, remember it's important to be 690 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,799 Speaker 1: remember to think like it's not it's that this isn't 691 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: you know, this isn't gonna reach whatever anti work utopia, 692 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 1: which I I know people people organizing it aren't thinking that, 693 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: but you know, it's it's it's important to keep this 694 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 1: within context of like the limits of even of of 695 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 1: online organizing. You know, so a lot a lot of 696 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,319 Speaker 1: people like recommend you know, focusing on organizing your own 697 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: workplace and community, um, discussing you know, discussing having discussions 698 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: with with unions kind of in in your area. Um, 699 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: and yeah, a part of part of, part of kind 700 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,840 Speaker 1: of the part of the reply to to this original 701 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,360 Speaker 1: like a black Friday blackout post that that someone that 702 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: someone wrote was was seriously though, I would love for 703 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,439 Speaker 1: an actual gent general strike to kick off. But these 704 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: online calls for general strikes, it's no union involvement, no demands, 705 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,720 Speaker 1: no supports for strikers of any kind, no nothing whatsoever 706 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 1: beyond social media hashtags, don't do anything. Focus on organizing 707 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: or workplace any community discussed with unions which might be 708 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,359 Speaker 1: sympathetic to what criteria, uh, what criteria they might need 709 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: from such a drastic action. There's a lot of unions 710 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 1: on strike right now, so if there ever was the 711 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 1: time to kick one off, it's now. Most general strikes 712 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 1: in the past started off with specific strikes that started 713 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: pulling in other union unions and solidarity than anything else. 714 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,759 Speaker 1: Focus on that and we might get somewhere. I think. 715 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: Is it's a decent Is a decent advice for the 716 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 1: people who are really dedicated onto this kind of like 717 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 1: general strike thing is Yeah? That is? That is? That 718 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: is um, pretty pretty good advice in in my opinion, 719 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 1: I want to see something kind of briefly just in 720 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: general about general strikes, because I think we've talked about 721 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 1: it a lot on here, but they're really really hard. 722 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 1: I mean, there there, there's there's an example, like and 723 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 1: like just to just to get a picture of like 724 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 1: how how actually hard it is to pull off. There 725 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,440 Speaker 1: was there was one in Sudan in in summer nineteen 726 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: and you know, I mean this is this is in 727 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 1: the middle of the revolution, right, the the Sudan is 728 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,399 Speaker 1: incredibly highly organized, as incredibly miility, and people have been 729 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: like you know, I mean, people like the like the 730 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 1: chance in the street is like you cannot kill us, 731 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 1: were already dead, like you know they and you know, 732 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: and and it's the whole revolution is being led by 733 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 1: the Student Professional Association, which is an association of like 734 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 1: seventeen trade unions. Right, so this this is a population 735 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: that is enormously better organized than like anything really that 736 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,759 Speaker 1: exists in the US. And you know, in in the 737 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: middle of the summer of the army opens fire and 738 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,320 Speaker 1: starts killing protesters, and so they call general strike and 739 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,400 Speaker 1: you know, the turnout is massive, right, they have millions, 740 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,320 Speaker 1: millions upon millions of people show up to the strike 741 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: and on day one, it's success, and then on day 742 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:03,400 Speaker 1: two of the strike, people start having to pull out, 743 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 1: especially people in the in formal sector, because even with 744 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,240 Speaker 1: the level of organization they have, they can't support everyone. 745 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,239 Speaker 1: And by about day three, most of the strike is 746 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: collapsed because even even with levels of organization they had, 747 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,359 Speaker 1: even with you know, the coordination, even with the fact 748 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 1: that they're in the middle of revolution, they just they 749 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 1: couldn't support particularly people in the informal sector. So this 750 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:27,160 Speaker 1: stuff is really really really hard, and yeah, it is 751 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 1: even it is definitely hard. Yeah, like even even highly organized, 752 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 1: highly motivated people who are you know, like literally willing 753 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 1: to fight to the death will lose. And that's that's 754 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,000 Speaker 1: something that you have to sort of keep in mind 755 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 1: when you're talking about this, because a lot of people 756 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,800 Speaker 1: are more focused on kind of their individual resignations, finding 757 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,799 Speaker 1: other ways of making money, and just slacking off at 758 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:50,960 Speaker 1: work in general, because those are a lot a lot 759 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 1: easier than trying to organize a general, a mass general 760 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:55,719 Speaker 1: strike right now. And I think one of the really 761 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,280 Speaker 1: optimistic things about this whole anti work thing, including including 762 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: the sub run, is that it has made some big 763 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,840 Speaker 1: executives kind of nervous um there was a fantastic article 764 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,359 Speaker 1: by Yahoo Finance. Now by fantastic, I mean funny for me. 765 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 1: You know, they did not think it was as funny. 766 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:17,280 Speaker 1: Um about they talked with like the Golden Sacks CEO 767 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 1: of and uh and they pointed to the anti work 768 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:27,319 Speaker 1: subredit of being what was the what was the phrase, um, 769 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:32,720 Speaker 1: a long run risk to to labor force participation? Good? 770 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,360 Speaker 1: This is see that that When I first read that 771 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: in the article, I just like flashed to my head 772 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 1: in my head to that scene from Starship Troopers where 773 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 1: Neil Patrick Harris puts his hand on the brain bug 774 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 1: it goes it's afraid. Yeah. Yeah, he said, uh, we 775 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 1: see some risk that workers were elected will elect to 776 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,359 Speaker 1: maintain out of the workforce for longer, provided they can 777 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 1: afford to do so. U of pretty pretty good stuff 778 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 1: and I think stuff and everything it's worth mentioning that 779 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,640 Speaker 1: hasn't been talked about very much? Is that? So this 780 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 1: is actually kind of working in some sense, Like the 781 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 1: last few months general, last few months particular have seen 782 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,759 Speaker 1: basically like the highest levels of wage increases that we've 783 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 1: seen in decades. So you know, like, yeah, we haven't 784 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,840 Speaker 1: overthrown capitalism yet, but like if you can keep quitting 785 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: your job, keep quitting your job at at your regular job, 786 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: work less, keep doing it, it's working. Yeah, this is 787 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 1: stuff I wish we need to in the future. I 788 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 1: would like us to be focusing more on stuff like that, 789 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:39,919 Speaker 1: like this that is legitimately, as you point out, Chris, 790 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,360 Speaker 1: there's a lot of reasons to be very optimistic about 791 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,560 Speaker 1: about some of the numbers that we're getting from what 792 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,719 Speaker 1: is happening to labor right now. Um, and it is 793 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 1: important as we all like right now we're all miserable 794 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 1: because we're sweating through the written house case, it is 795 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,279 Speaker 1: important to talk about stuff like that that like, yeah, 796 00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,879 Speaker 1: some ship people is doing is is hitting the home. 797 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,800 Speaker 1: Some motherfucker's have found the glowy vulnerable spot on the 798 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:08,919 Speaker 1: Boss Monster and it's it's yeah, it's just not working. Yeah. 799 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,239 Speaker 1: Like again, as we started the series with, like yeah, 800 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,360 Speaker 1: general Strike is is kind of the best available solution, 801 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,840 Speaker 1: um or a path to a solution that I can find. 802 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,759 Speaker 1: Um But anyway, uh what what what what what? What? 803 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,640 Speaker 1: I think I think that that does it for us today? 804 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 1: I know, Chris special special like sequel stuff happening. Uh 805 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:40,239 Speaker 1: so tune in tomorrow. For our and like like all 806 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,120 Speaker 1: of the best sequels, this one will be directed by 807 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:47,359 Speaker 1: James Cameron Um. So we're all very excited to bring 808 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,800 Speaker 1: our pal James onto the pod, to bring our pal 809 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,640 Speaker 1: James and the reanimated corpse of Stan Winston Um. It's 810 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:58,920 Speaker 1: going to be amazing, So check it out by everybody. 811 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,760 Speaker 1: It could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 812 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 813 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:09,799 Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com, or check us out on 814 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,400 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 815 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could 816 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,239 Speaker 1: Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone Media dot com 817 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 1: slash sources. Thanks for listening.