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Speaker 1: Hey, folks, it is Saturday, August first, and we now

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Speaker 1: know the full text of the ransom notes that were

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Speaker 1: sent asking for millions of dollars in exchange for Nancy

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Speaker 1: Guthrie's return, And with that, welcome to this episode of

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Speaker 1: Amy and Tjes. This is a pretty significant update to

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Speaker 1: this investigation, to this case. It's not the clue that's

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Speaker 1: leading to her but robes. They're by releasing this, they're

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Speaker 1: hoping it will yes.

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Speaker 2: And it makes sense because when we go through these

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Speaker 2: ransom notes, the words they use, the phrases they use,

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Speaker 2: how they spell things, all of that matters. People might

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Speaker 2: recognize a pattern someone that they know, someone that they love,

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Speaker 2: who speaks like that, who uses phrases like that. So

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Speaker 2: it makes sense because if you've got this image that

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Speaker 2: we have from that surveillance or that door cam that

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Speaker 2: they were able to find a few days after her disappearance,

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Speaker 2: if you pair that with this language, maybe it'll spark

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Speaker 2: some sort of recognition in someone.

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Speaker 1: Why not do it before? Now?

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Speaker 2: I know, I'm surprised, actually, given these the uniqueness of

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Speaker 2: these ransom notes, I'm so surprised they wouldn't have released

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Speaker 2: these within a few weeks if not even a few days, maybe.

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Speaker 1: They thought they still had a chance and this would

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Speaker 1: harm the investigation. But again, like you said that in

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Speaker 1: the following weeks, Okay, it's now six months. This weekend

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Speaker 1: is the six month anniversary of Nancy Guthrie, the last

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Speaker 1: time she was seen, the last time she was believed

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Speaker 1: to be alive. And yes, this is the six month

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Speaker 1: anniversary of her being taken. So we want to share

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Speaker 1: and Robes the other part of this as we share

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Speaker 1: these two notes now in the text of them, of

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Speaker 1: the other thing is I guess they're sharing these because

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Speaker 1: they believe there's a decent amount of credibility to them.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and I thought when we they actually kind of

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Speaker 2: they didn't have proof of life, but they had proof

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Speaker 2: that they were in her bedroom, and that made it

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Speaker 2: seem as if as if, yes, this is in fact

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Speaker 2: the kidnapper. Also of note, so she was last seen

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Speaker 2: January thirty first, but so she was reported missing February first.

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Speaker 2: By February second, they had a ransom note. That was

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Speaker 2: significant to me too to know that within and that

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Speaker 2: would make sense within the first twenty four hours they

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Speaker 2: had a demand for money, and that.

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Speaker 1: Was that maybe Robes that detail lends more to credibility

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Speaker 1: than anything, because at that point, on February second, we

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Speaker 1: were still getting caught up. It was it was not

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Speaker 1: the national and international phenomenon of a story that it

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Speaker 1: was yet, so robes if some random person, this was

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Speaker 1: not a random person who sees headlines and tried to

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Speaker 1: take advantage. This lends itself to somebody that was ready exactly.

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Speaker 2: And I would also say that, yeah, before it was

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Speaker 2: a big deal and before anyone knew she was kidnapped. Remember,

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Speaker 2: people were thinking when it was first reported that Nancy

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Speaker 2: Guthrie was missing, it has to be the son in law,

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Speaker 2: it has to be her sister, it has to be

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Speaker 2: the folks who saw.

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Speaker 3: Her last, who were taking care of her. They owned

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Speaker 3: her money.

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Speaker 1: But they also said she might have wandered off. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people thought.

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Speaker 3: That, So people weren't immediately.

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Speaker 2: In fact, I don't think many people were actually considering

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Speaker 2: some random kidnapping that would have been statistically speaking, one

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Speaker 2: of the least likely scenarios. So it wasn't until that ringcam,

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Speaker 2: that doorkam video was made to light that was the

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Speaker 2: first time people actually got behind and actually believed that

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Speaker 2: there was a kidnapper, so yet to have a ransom

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Speaker 2: note the next day absolutely.

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Speaker 3: Lends credibility to its authenticity.

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Speaker 1: No, the other thing in credibility they came out. They

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Speaker 1: had to tell us pretty quickly, Robes, she can't walk

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Speaker 1: fifty feet without help, and that didn't lend itself to

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Speaker 1: her just getting up and walking out of that home

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Speaker 1: and wandering off somewhere. But this is the first note.

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Speaker 1: Now this was on February second, is when they at

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Speaker 1: police say they received this. Also of notes, there seemed

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Speaker 1: to be at least word of several notes that were

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Speaker 1: flying around. I believe a couple of TV stations said

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Speaker 1: they got them. TMZ said they got several, and we're

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Speaker 1: going back and forth with someone. But these two that

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Speaker 1: they believe are credible ropes came from the same and

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Speaker 1: were sent to the same TV station out there in Tucson, Kold.

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Speaker 1: This was the note authority say they got on February second.

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Speaker 2: Hello Savannah, we have your mother Nancy. She is safe

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Speaker 2: but scared. She will be held for ransom and once

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Speaker 2: payment is received, she will be released unharmed. We will

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Speaker 2: be holding her for a maximum of seven days. You

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Speaker 2: will need to send bitcoin to the amount of four

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Speaker 2: million US dollars before five pm on Thursday the fifth.

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Speaker 2: If payment is not received, the ransom will be increased

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Speaker 2: to six million US dollars, which will need to be

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Speaker 2: paid by five pm on Monday the ninth. Once payment

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Speaker 2: is received to the bitcoin addressed below, she will be

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Speaker 2: released within twelve hours of deposit to a safe drop

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Speaker 2: off location back in Tucson. If payment is not received

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Speaker 2: by the last deadline on Monday the ninth at five pm,

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Speaker 2: she will be killed. Your mother is aware of this,

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Speaker 2: and her life is in your hands. It is in

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Speaker 2: the best interest of everyone to have this completed as

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Speaker 2: soon as possible. You will not be able to contact

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Speaker 2: me from here on out. There will be no negotiation.

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Speaker 2: Do not play games. Law enforcement will not be able

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Speaker 2: to help you. She had a white smart watch on

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Speaker 2: the floor of the foot of her bed, and the

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Speaker 2: white floodlight in the backyard was destroyed.

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Speaker 1: I don't bros, that's confirmation. How could they not take

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Speaker 1: that as confirmation?

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Speaker 2: Then there's no one else who knew that at that point.

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Speaker 2: We didn't know the floodlights were destroyed by February second,

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Speaker 2: and we certainly wouldn't have known that there was a

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Speaker 2: white smart watch on the floor at the foot of

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Speaker 2: her bed.

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Speaker 1: Know how to go about like, how would authorities are

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Speaker 1: you supposed to go about that? I'm just remembering the

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Speaker 1: early days of this investigation, Robes, the very early days

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Speaker 1: where the information that was being put out did not

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Speaker 1: seem to lend itself to this type of urgency. And

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Speaker 1: I guess that was them trying to play the right

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Speaker 1: game with the kidnappers. For Rose hearing this, now, what

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Speaker 1: in God's name you remember the back and forth and

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Speaker 1: he did this press conference and not going to do

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Speaker 1: this when it seemed just a mess. This lends itself

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Speaker 1: to seriousness. We need to shut this down and figure

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Speaker 1: this out. What are they doing back and forth in

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Speaker 1: public robes. I'm confused because this seems to have told

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Speaker 1: them for sure she is taken. It is urgent, we

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Speaker 1: are working. We'll get back to you when we can roose.

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Speaker 1: Her life was on the line that day. What do

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Speaker 1: we do? Were they really trying to know, you're not

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Speaker 1: supposed to pay ransom? But were they really trying to

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Speaker 1: solve this crime and track this person down and didn't

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Speaker 1: take this?

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Speaker 2: Guess I guess they're told not to pay right. I

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Speaker 2: mean that is the isn't that always the mode of operation?

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Speaker 2: That you should not pay in four million dollars in

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Speaker 2: bitcoin that you'll never get back in the hopes that

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Speaker 2: this person's telling the truth.

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Speaker 3: What would you do, man.

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Speaker 1: Robes, I don't know. You would listen to investigators. You

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Speaker 1: would listen to what the FBI is telling you they

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Speaker 1: think you should do. Robes, that's an impossible position because

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Speaker 1: as a family, first of all, you're saying, do we

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Speaker 1: have it, we can pay it, let's do this. That's

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Speaker 1: what your first instinct is, Robes. They know the condition

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Speaker 1: of their mom. She can't be under this stress for

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Speaker 1: how many days.

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Speaker 3: They told us that she did.

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Speaker 2: If she did not have her heart medication within twenty

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Speaker 2: four hours, she would likely die.

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Speaker 3: That is what they told us. That was the urgency.

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Speaker 2: And so yes, you get this letter the next day

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Speaker 2: and you don't act on it. And you know, by

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Speaker 2: not acting on it, if this thing is real, that

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Speaker 2: your mom may die like that is, as you put,

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Speaker 2: an impossible situation.

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Speaker 1: So kold TV got another note four days later, on

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Speaker 1: February the sixth, So February, why don't remember this? February

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Speaker 1: first was a Sunday.

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Speaker 3: February sixth is my birthday, so I know it was

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Speaker 3: a Friday.

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Speaker 1: This is the Friday, so this is all happening in

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Speaker 1: the same week. She's taken on a Sunday, first note

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Speaker 1: on a Monday, and then the next note, the follow

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Speaker 1: up to the same TV station. Ropes came on February sixth.

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Speaker 2: And this one is dark. It says Guthrie family. We

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Speaker 2: did not fully grasp the seriousness of her physical condition.

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Speaker 2: We never intended to hurt her. That was not our intention.

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Speaker 2: She perished shortly after she was taken. We believe it

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Speaker 2: was heart related. She is buried in nature.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: Nothing you could have done could have changed the outcome.

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Speaker 2: We want your family to know this and hope you

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Speaker 2: all can find peace. We are truly sorry. Wow, what

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Speaker 2: the what the hell? This sounds like a kind person

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Speaker 2: who is sending flowers, and that makes sense when we

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Speaker 2: hear Savannah and her siblings put out these. It seemed

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Speaker 2: at the time, while they were cryptic messages speaking to

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Speaker 2: this person directly.

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Speaker 3: Now it all makes sense.

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Speaker 2: They were trying to say, we know you're a good person,

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Speaker 2: we know you didn't mean for this to happen. They're

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Speaker 2: trying to appeal to that kinder side that was displayed

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Speaker 2: in this second note.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember that line we received your message and

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Speaker 1: we understand.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 1: I remember her saying that very early on. All of

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Speaker 1: us were like, what the actual hell does that mean? Ope,

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Speaker 1: she got this message on February sixth. We're just seeing

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Speaker 1: it now. Wow, this is so and I the tone

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Speaker 1: is really striking, Robes. And we have no intention of

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Speaker 1: hurting her, and we already said we threatened to kill

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Speaker 1: her that those two things didn't really fly. But this

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Speaker 1: Robes is written, uh, sincerely, eloquently, professionally, politely.

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Speaker 3: She perished shortly after she was taken.

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Speaker 2: People don't talk like speaks like that, right, Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: don't even know if they chat, GPT did or something.

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Speaker 2: But it does feel a little robotic, but also kind

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Speaker 2: and sincere at the same time. So that's why I

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Speaker 2: was thinking, maybe this is AI generated, Like what do

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Speaker 2: I say to a family who I stole or I

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Speaker 2: kidnapped their mom and she died by accident.

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Speaker 1: She is buried in nature, now, Roes.

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Speaker 2: And who says that, like, really, truly, no one. I

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Speaker 2: don't know anyone who talks like that or writes like that.

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Speaker 2: It's so strange it is.

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Speaker 1: I didn't think about the AI option. Maybe this was,

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Speaker 1: but I just people don't talk like this, and certainly not.

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Speaker 1: I don't know kidnappers, no offense to kidnappers out there,

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Speaker 1: but you.

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Speaker 3: Were worried about it ending kidnappers? Right now?

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Speaker 1: What they also do? I can't imagine someone who was

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Speaker 1: that guy at the front door that we've seen on

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Speaker 1: ren cam saying yes, she perished. I never intended to

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Speaker 1: hurt her.

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Speaker 2: We didn't fully grasp the seriousness of her physical condition.

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Speaker 3: What no one speaks like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we didn't know how bad off she was, right

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Speaker 1: you you taught? Yeah, so this one, what do you

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Speaker 1: do with that? But yes, it's why they keep making

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Speaker 1: an appeal rose to someone's better angels, because they believe

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Speaker 1: they have them, Because it appears they have even displayed

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Speaker 1: it to some degree.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and I think that is why they The reward

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Speaker 2: for one point two million dollars is out there for

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Speaker 2: information about her whereabouts, not about the person who kidnapped her,

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Speaker 2: not about convicting the person who kidnapped her. But it's

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Speaker 2: just to find where she is, to not know, to

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Speaker 2: know that your mom's somewhere out in a field in

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Speaker 2: a desert, and it's just there's something about that. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they want to bring her home, they want to have

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Speaker 2: a funeral, they want to have a place to go

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Speaker 2: pay their respects to and just think that she's just

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Speaker 2: been left somewhere out in nature.

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Speaker 1: She'll be found, you know these things. Just people stumble

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Speaker 1: upon stuff all the time. Where is it just she'll

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Speaker 1: be found. Just don't know when, and don't know if

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Speaker 1: this person is ever going to come forward and give

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Speaker 1: that information, but they do. They again, I dismiss it

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Speaker 1: now robes like the sincerity or whatever I hear in there?

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Speaker 1: It does? Is it ai'ed? You have me thinking that

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Speaker 1: now it sounded.

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Speaker 2: It sounds robotic yet sincere, which to me would equal ai.

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Speaker 3: But what do I know?

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Speaker 1: Well, why why we just talked? It's been six months

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Speaker 1: this weekend to the day since she was taken, So

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Speaker 1: why they decide to put it out now? Stay here,

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Speaker 1: we'll let you hear from the PEMA Count of Sheriff.

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Speaker 1: They put out a press release explaining why they think

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Speaker 1: this is so important. Also, there was another Nancy Guthrie

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Speaker 1: investigation headline this week, another demand for money, this one

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Speaker 1: coming from the guy who was wrongly arrested. Stay here

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Speaker 1: all right? We continue here on Amy and TJ two

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Speaker 1: ransom notes. The text of those ransom notes for Nancy

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Speaker 1: Guthrie has been released, the Sheriff's office, releasing them now

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Speaker 1: here on the six month anniversary of her being taken roads.

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Speaker 1: I guess they are still trying to keep up interest

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Speaker 1: in this case by releasing the stuff. And they want

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Speaker 1: folks to possibly recognize something and how the person was writing.

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Speaker 1: Did the person write that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I know, now you're like, what it is?

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Speaker 2: Chat GPT And they did it on purpose so that

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Speaker 2: someone could not figure out their quote. Distinctive patterns of

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Speaker 2: word choice, syntax, and phraseology that reflect the writer's unique

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Speaker 2: linguistic style. That's what they are hoping will happen. But

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Speaker 2: if it is a computer generated letter, then there's no

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Speaker 2: way they're going to be Isn't that crazy?

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Speaker 3: You have to consider that now these days, like.

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Speaker 2: That wouldn't even be a thought bubble for anyone even

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Speaker 2: five years ago.

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Speaker 1: Right, I don't know how to recognize that. You. I

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Speaker 1: look at that and go, what the actual hell? And

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Speaker 1: they said, who talks like that? And they said, oh,

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Speaker 1: maybe nobody talks like that?

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Speaker 2: Right, And If that's the case, this isn't gonna let

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Speaker 2: much insight now. The first one did seem human. The

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Speaker 2: first one did seem to be I didn't feel robotic,

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Speaker 2: the second one did. This is from the PMA County

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Speaker 2: Sheriff's Department. This was their press release. They said the

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Speaker 2: notes also provide valuable insight into the person's mindset, motives,

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Speaker 2: and the evolution of their tone over time. As with

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Speaker 2: the unidentified male depicted in the video, we believe these

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Speaker 2: distinctive linguistic characteristics may be recognizable to someone who knows

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Speaker 2: or has interacted with the notes writer. A friend, family member, coworker, classmate,

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Speaker 2: or acquaintance may recognize these patterns of expression and possess

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Speaker 2: information that could help identify by the individual responsible. In

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Speaker 2: some cases, there are times when people who may have

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Speaker 2: knowledge initially do not come forward. This may be due

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Speaker 2: to their close relationships with those who might be involved,

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Speaker 2: as well as concern for their own safety, reputation, or

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Speaker 2: standing in the community and amongst their friends. We recognize

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Speaker 2: relationships and loyalties change over time, as do people and

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Speaker 2: their perspectives. It's not too late to come forward.

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Speaker 1: Although those are good and that's true right.

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Speaker 3: I agree.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you've had a change of heart, is essentially what

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Speaker 1: he's saying. And it's been six months. Maybe they can

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Speaker 1: put something out again in ten months or every month anniversary,

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Speaker 1: however they want to do it. But that's a good

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Speaker 1: point and something good to point out ropes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Also, the other thing that I thought was interesting in

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Speaker 2: those notes in I just went back and checked in

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Speaker 2: both of them.

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Speaker 3: They kept saying we.

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Speaker 2: So I'm curious if that is truly the case where

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Speaker 2: it was multiple people, or if he just or I

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Speaker 2: say he, But I guess that's fair because that's who

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Speaker 2: we saw depicted in that camera on her porch. But

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Speaker 2: I wonder or he's just trying to throw investigators off.

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Speaker 2: But he did use we the entire time.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I never imagine how this could be a

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Speaker 1: one person operation. He walked out of that house with

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Speaker 1: her and put her in what and they got into

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Speaker 1: what and headed where with whom? Who knows?

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Speaker 3: That's true?

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Speaker 1: The thing that jumped out wrote that I heard the

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Speaker 1: sheriff suggest at least that he believed the person, whoever

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Speaker 1: it is local. Right, There's been some connections and talk

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Speaker 1: about Mexico never really panned out, but it was the

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Speaker 1: first note said, after we get paid, you have her

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Speaker 1: within twelve hours.

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Speaker 3: That's a good point.

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Speaker 1: Twelve hours is is close where is she was always

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Speaker 1: in the area, So now it's possible. The Tucson is

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Speaker 1: a what hour drive from the Mexican border, so sure

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Speaker 1: that's possible. A robes twelve hours is that's pretty local.

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Speaker 3: It has to be.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty local.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and you mentioned the other money grab or the

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Speaker 2: other person who is trying to demand money from this situation. No,

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Speaker 2: not a ransom note to, not a kidnapper, but the

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Speaker 2: man who was initially detained. Remember that delivery driver DoorDash

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Speaker 2: driver who was detained for a few hours. Yeah, he

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Speaker 2: wants to be paid millions of dollars because of that

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Speaker 2: traumatic experience.

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Speaker 1: That was a big story. We're like, whoa, this is it.

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Speaker 1: They detained somebody, They got a guy, and then the

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Speaker 1: next thing we know, I don't even know if authorities

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Speaker 1: announced first or we saw this press conference. This guy

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Speaker 1: had on his front porch and his mama's inside yelling

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Speaker 1: at him, and he's on the front answering questions about

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Speaker 1: being detained and already being released.

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Speaker 2: But how long was he in He says he was

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Speaker 2: in police custody for seven to eight hours. And look,

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Speaker 2: police didn't name his name, they did not call him

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Speaker 2: a person of interest, they did not call him a suspect.

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Speaker 2: They said they were they were questioning. That's true someone,

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Speaker 2: and that was it. And look, obviously there were reporters everywhere,

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Speaker 2: and so when they saw police congregating at someone's home,

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Speaker 2: obviously there was piqued interest and there was there were

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Speaker 2: cameras around. But look, is it. Do you deserve millions

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Speaker 2: of dollars because police, yes, disrupted your life, brought you

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Speaker 2: into a holding area and interrogated you and then let

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Speaker 2: you go and did not charge you and did not

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Speaker 2: name you.

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Speaker 1: Rops. He's asking for two and a half million for.

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Speaker 3: His experience. I'm sure that's the imposition.

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Speaker 1: That's just okay, I just I'm trying to leave space.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about this the other day. I want to

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Speaker 1: leave space for what his experience was and how he

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Speaker 1: was treated and what he think he's deserved. But yes,

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Speaker 1: he said that their possible litigation is coming, but we

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Speaker 1: can avoid all that if y'all just pay him two

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Speaker 1: point five million.

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Speaker 3: Correct what his lawyer said.

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Speaker 2: And look, the other icky part about this is that

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Speaker 2: his mother, yes.

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Speaker 3: The homeowner, his relatives.

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Speaker 2: They were described does I don't know if it's mom

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Speaker 2: and brother or what the relations are, but they were

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Speaker 2: described as family members. But the woman who owns the

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Speaker 2: house and another male who lives there as well, are both.

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Speaker 2: He's seeking five hundred thousand because he says he was

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Speaker 2: handcuffed and under armed guard for hours. And then she

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Speaker 2: claims that her home there was damage to her home

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Speaker 2: in the raid, and she wants two hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars. So in total, the family wants three point

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Speaker 2: twenty five million dollars from Pima County for their seven

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Speaker 2: hour traumatic experience.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was traumatic as hell.

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Speaker 2: That is a that's expensive, that's a that's a hard

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Speaker 2: day's work.

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Speaker 1: God. But that is the update on this investigation obviously. Yeah, yeah, heart.

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Speaker 1: You can't imagine what that family continues to go through.

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Speaker 1: So that is the update for now. I don't they

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Speaker 1: didn't give us any anticipation robs of another one or

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Speaker 1: anything major. He keeps wanted to say that the case

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Speaker 1: isn't cold, but this is going to generate probably some

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Speaker 1: fresh leads.

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Speaker 2: And that's the hope that maybe someone will Maybe this

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Speaker 2: wasn't chat GPT. Maybe someone says, holy hell, that's exactly

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Speaker 2: how my weird ass cousin talks.

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Speaker 3: You never know.

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Speaker 2: So the hope is that this will come with some

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Speaker 2: fresh new leads. And there's that one piece of DNA

399
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Speaker 2: left that they still have to separate and hopefully test,

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Speaker 2: and that's kind of the last glimmer of hope when

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Speaker 2: it comes to forensic evidence. So we hope at least

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Speaker 2: one of those two things provides a new lead for

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Speaker 2: investigators and certainly for the Guthrie family. And with that everyone,

404
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,520
Speaker 2: we always appreciate you listening to us. I may need

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Speaker 2: robot alongside TJ.

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Speaker 3: Holmes. We'll talk to some