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Speaker 1: M h. Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcast about

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Speaker 1: the business of media and entertainment. I'm Shirley Halprint, Executive

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Speaker 1: editor of Music, and for this episode, we're bringing you

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Speaker 1: a panel discussion that I moderated at the Milken Institute

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Speaker 1: Global Conference on May fourth. The session was called Drop

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Speaker 1: the Mic the Business of Music. For this talk, which

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Speaker 1: took place at the Beverly Hilton Hotel, I was joined

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Speaker 1: by a group of incredibly knowledgeable music industry professionals, Mark Samino,

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Speaker 1: Chief Operating Officer of Universal Music Publishing Group, Cherise Clark Sores,

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Speaker 1: Founder and CEO of Harbor View Equity Partners, Harvey Mason Jr.

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Speaker 1: CEO of The Recording Academy and a noted producer and songwriter,

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Speaker 1: and Scott Pescucci, Chief executive Officer of Concord. On the agenda,

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Speaker 1: the booming business of catalog sales, which has seen the

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Speaker 1: likes of Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, and Paul Simon cash

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Speaker 1: out for pay days in the hundreds of millions of

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Speaker 1: dollars and multiples of more than twenty times current market value. Indeed,

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Speaker 1: in investors spent five point three billion dollars on acquisitions

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Speaker 1: of recorded music, catalogs, publishing rights, and other royalties. According

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Speaker 1: to media research, that's up one percent from a year prior.

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Speaker 1: In on this panel, we look at what's driving Wall

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Speaker 1: streets interest in songs and assets. Will these deals pay

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Speaker 1: off for the institutional investors backing them, how does the

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Speaker 1: growth of music streaming services impact overall song consumption? And

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Speaker 1: the dollars were more likely scents that trickled down to

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Speaker 1: musicians and songwriters. We also talk about the archaic laws

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Speaker 1: that govern music copyrights and royalties, and we look ahead

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Speaker 1: to the future and asked well the popularity of n

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Speaker 1: f t s among music enthusiasts offer a new way

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Speaker 1: for fans to directly support their favorite artists. This Here's

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Speaker 1: Milkan Institute Global Conference brought together some one hundred twenty

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Speaker 1: sessions under the theme celebrating the Power of Connection. On

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Speaker 1: the morning of our panel, we shared a speaker room

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Speaker 1: with the likes of Goldie Hawn, Deepak Chopra, Gwyneth Paltrow,

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Speaker 1: and Don Cheetle as they tackled topics on finding calm

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Speaker 1: and building a meaningful life. I encourage you to head

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Speaker 1: over to Milken Institute dot org and click on Global

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Speaker 1: Conference for an archive of all the talks that took

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Speaker 1: place over four days in May, join us after the

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Speaker 1: break for the ins and outs of music catalog sales

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Speaker 1: as explained by the experts. Welcome back to strictly business.

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Speaker 1: Here's our conversation from the Milking Institute's Global Conference. And

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Speaker 1: because there are multiple voices in this recording, they'll be

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Speaker 1: hearing the speakers in this order. Harvey Mason Jr. Charise Clark, Sorez,

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Speaker 1: Scott Pascucci, and Mark some Mean. I want to just

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Speaker 1: start out with a little introductory thought. It was about

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Speaker 1: fifty seven years ago when Bob Dylan famously enraged folk

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Speaker 1: music purists by going electric. What might those people say

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Speaker 1: today when they learned that he sold his song catalog

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Speaker 1: to multinational conglomerate for nearly four hundred million dollars. In

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Speaker 1: the past few years, the value of these assets has

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Speaker 1: really soared to previously unimagined heights, with publishing in particular

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Speaker 1: seeing multiples well over twenty times their current market value.

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Speaker 1: In just to give you some context, investors spent five

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Speaker 1: point three billion dollars on acquisitions of recorded music catalogs, publishing,

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Speaker 1: and other royalties that's according to media research, and that's

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Speaker 1: up a hundred and eight percent from So let's talk

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Speaker 1: about catalogs and catalog acquisitions because it's a very hot topic.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'll just sort of throw this out to

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Speaker 1: the panel. Is music a sexy investment? Again, Well, I

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Speaker 1: can say it's always been a sexy investment. But I'm

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Speaker 1: a music person, so I'm on the creative side, So

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Speaker 1: I would leave it to some of the investors to

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Speaker 1: talk about the investment. But I can tell you that

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Speaker 1: music has never been more relevant, never been more important culturally.

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Speaker 1: It's moving what's happening in our society. It's integral to

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Speaker 1: every part of entertainment, film, TV, gaming, virtual So to me,

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Speaker 1: music is the sexiest thing there is. Sure, I'd say

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Speaker 1: music is always, to Harvey's point, been sexy. It's the

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Speaker 1: center of culture. Actually, if you really think about what

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Speaker 1: actually moves culture, what's a head of culture, it's music.

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Speaker 1: Music leads a lot of the ways that we are

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Speaker 1: going to show up in the world. It tells us

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Speaker 1: where we're gonna go. So music has always been a

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Speaker 1: key part of the ecosystem. But as a investment opportunity,

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Speaker 1: you know, we believe the content is clean. We do

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Speaker 1: believe that it is the tip of the spear that

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Speaker 1: it drives value for lots of different distribution platforms, and

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Speaker 1: they've looked different over time, UM, and they'll continue to

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Speaker 1: look different over time. And music, UM, film, television, all

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Speaker 1: these things will be center to that conversation. And if

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Speaker 1: it's center to the conversation and it's sent her to

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Speaker 1: driving a lot of economic value, it will always be

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Speaker 1: an attractive that's a class in our perspective. And if

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Speaker 1: I could just chime in, part of making music an

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Speaker 1: attractive investment opportunity, I think is determined on how we

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Speaker 1: continue to push for the rights of creators and the

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Speaker 1: value of the intellectual property attached to music and being

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Speaker 1: able to monetize the art is very important not only

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Speaker 1: for us as creators and for all of our members

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Speaker 1: of the Recording Academy, but for someone investing in music

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Speaker 1: making sure that music is valuable and continues to withhold

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Speaker 1: withhold its value long term. So that's something that we're

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Speaker 1: really really intent on continuing to concentrate on. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you all, I think everybody appears on the same page

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Speaker 1: of that we have to make sure creators and owners

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Speaker 1: of intellectual property being fairly compensated. I think you know

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Speaker 1: and puts it in your question, is the very current

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Speaker 1: focus on catalogs and catalog acquisition. Right, It's not is

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Speaker 1: music sexy? Music is sexy, artist sexy. But what is

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Speaker 1: new is the focus of Wall Street on buying catalogs,

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Speaker 1: valuing them, talking about it. And I think what gets

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Speaker 1: lost in the last couple of years of frenetic activity

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Speaker 1: is that for the companies in the music industry, we

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Speaker 1: have been buying and building catalogs for decades. So it's

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Speaker 1: really Wall Streets focus on the on the business and

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Speaker 1: the opportunity that's new. And on the one hand, it's

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Speaker 1: nice that Wall Street has taken the time to learn

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Speaker 1: our business and to figure out what the attractiveness of

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Speaker 1: our catalogs are because they are extraordinary. But at the

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Speaker 1: same time, it has created a level of frenetic frothiness,

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Speaker 1: which is I think also implicit in your question, what

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Speaker 1: are the motivations of the sellers, of the artists and

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Speaker 1: of the buyers. Look, I think there's a natural lifespan

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Speaker 1: of these artists, and you know, they reach a certain

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Speaker 1: age where they want to make sure that their legacy

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Speaker 1: is being preserved in the away and that they can

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Speaker 1: do a transaction where they know that well after they're here,

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Speaker 1: these songs are going to be treated in the way

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Speaker 1: that they would want them to be treated if they

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Speaker 1: were still around. And I think finding the right partners

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Speaker 1: very important. There's, you know, obviously the financial reasons. There's

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Speaker 1: great opportunities for people to sell and enjoy the fruits

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Speaker 1: of their labor late in life. There's a state planning,

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Speaker 1: there's tax treatments that are favorable. I think all of

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Speaker 1: those things backed are in. I think it depends on

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Speaker 1: who the person is that's selling, you know, particularly on

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Speaker 1: the deals that we've done. What's been great about it

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Speaker 1: is that we felt like it's not necessarily bidding war

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Speaker 1: type situations. It's these people have wanted to be with us,

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Speaker 1: and we take that responsibility very seriously. I think, arking

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Speaker 1: off what Mark said is everybody in the panel knows

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Speaker 1: there is a lot of increased liquidity in music catalogs

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Speaker 1: now right there are buyers are more buying and selling,

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Speaker 1: but they are not as liquid as you know. If

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Speaker 1: I die tomorrow, resolving my estate is a fairly straightforward process.

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Speaker 1: If you have an enormous music catalog. When you pass,

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Speaker 1: you are leaving your children, your heir's a bundle of

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Speaker 1: responsibilities that they may not want and they may not

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Speaker 1: be prepared for. And it's not even if you have

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Speaker 1: you know, counterparties like labels and publishers who are doing

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Speaker 1: the work. The five percent of the work is a

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Speaker 1: lot and requires experience, and not every family wants that responsibility.

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Speaker 1: So in a period where multiples are high, I think

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Speaker 1: that a lot of artists like Dylan and others are

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Speaker 1: looking at their legacy and saying, my legacy is a

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Speaker 1: creative legacy. My legacy is also a financial legacy, and

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Speaker 1: it's a business, and it has a team of people

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Speaker 1: that run that business. And when we're not here anymore,

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Speaker 1: who's going to run it? Or does it make more

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Speaker 1: sense for me to reduce it to more fungible assets

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Speaker 1: so that my heirs can enjoy that without taking on

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Speaker 1: the responsibility that I chose to take on as an

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Speaker 1: artist sixty years ago. I would also add that obviously

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Speaker 1: there's a stake planning. There are folks who are thinking

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Speaker 1: about legacy, which I do agree with everything that Scott

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Speaker 1: and Mike said, but you also are seeing younger artists

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Speaker 1: participate in the marketplace as well, and hard to speak

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Speaker 1: for all of them at all, but you know, I

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Speaker 1: always give the example that I worked at a major

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Speaker 1: financial institution for years and decades, and every year I

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Speaker 1: got some cash and I got some stock, but it

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Speaker 1: was all tied to this one financial institution, and so

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Speaker 1: if anything happened to the financial institution, that would harm

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Speaker 1: my personal wealth. So you're starting to see a lot

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Speaker 1: of artists across generations have sophisticated council who tell them

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Speaker 1: to think about diversifying their wealth and think about planning

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Speaker 1: outside of just only indexing to the core business that

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Speaker 1: they live in and work in and breathe in every

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Speaker 1: single day. Um So, I think there's a lot of motivations,

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Speaker 1: and the liquidity that's come into the marketplace is really

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Speaker 1: in some instances even empowered creators. Like one of the

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Speaker 1: artist catalogs that I've purchased in the past was a

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Speaker 1: really young artist, but it allowed her to be a

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Speaker 1: little bit more empowered about how she thought about the

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Speaker 1: next phase of her career without feeling rushed into doing

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Speaker 1: something that she wasn't necessarily ready for. So I do

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Speaker 1: think there are a number of different reasons for artists

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Speaker 1: and creators across the spectrum to really be thinking about

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Speaker 1: engaging in the marketplace. I also think I have to

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Speaker 1: say that this generation of executives in the music business

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Speaker 1: might be a little different than you know, maybe thirty

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Speaker 1: or forty years ago, where I think it was very

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Speaker 1: business oriented back then, and now, you know, you have

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Speaker 1: people that grew up worshiping music that are that are

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Speaker 1: running the music companies now. And with respect to Bob Dylan,

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Speaker 1: I mean that is a heavy response stability. I don't

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Speaker 1: know that people forty years ago would have looked at

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Speaker 1: it that way. It would have been a much more

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Speaker 1: business oriented approach. Look, clearly, we run a business and

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Speaker 1: that's a focal point for us in making sure that

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Speaker 1: the music is monetized properly. But there's just an awe

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Speaker 1: of taking a catalog on like that that I don't

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Speaker 1: know would have existed, you know, thirty or forty years ago. Look,

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Speaker 1: I like to think Universal is the best at it,

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Speaker 1: and I know we are, but I don't think that

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Speaker 1: that ethos is necessarily unique to us, right I think that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know Scott very well, I know how

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Speaker 1: enamored he is with with music in general, and and

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Speaker 1: I think the same goes for all the people that

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Speaker 1: are active in this space. And I think converse to

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Speaker 1: the business approach from the labels that Mike's talking about,

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Speaker 1: I speak as a creator. When you start writing music

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Speaker 1: or creating this art, you're not thinking about the business.

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Speaker 1: You're thinking about what can I make that's cool, What

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Speaker 1: can I make that comes from my heart? What can

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Speaker 1: I create that makes people relate to what I'm saying

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Speaker 1: or lands with people. And you do that early in

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Speaker 1: your career until you reach a certain point and then

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Speaker 1: it clicks over to what you started speaking about, which

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Speaker 1: is like, Oh, I might have the opportunity to create

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Speaker 1: some agency for me going forward in my career. I

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Speaker 1: have an asset here which you're not thinking about when

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Speaker 1: you're making it. You're just making it because you love it.

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Speaker 1: You love the music, you love the process, and you

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Speaker 1: love sharing your feelings and your thoughts. And then it

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Speaker 1: comes to time and you're like, oh, they're paying a

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Speaker 1: twenty multiple multiple. This is a different opportunity. So, yes,

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Speaker 1: a state planning, yes, worrying about your legacy, but a

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Speaker 1: lot of it is coming down to finally clicking into

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Speaker 1: the opportunity that's available to you and having the chance

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Speaker 1: to really change your life and to make a difference

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Speaker 1: in how you want to proceed. Many people sign deals

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Speaker 1: earlier in their careers that give them some some financial resources,

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Speaker 1: but there are somewhat limiting and when you get to

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Speaker 1: the point where you've created an asset and can have

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Speaker 1: a liquidity event, it can change your life. That's making

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Speaker 1: a lot of creators think right now. I mean, music

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Speaker 1: is one of the most complicated and archaic sort of

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Speaker 1: financial models that there can be. Literally, it is guided

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Speaker 1: by laws that were made many decades ago and have

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Speaker 1: still yet to catch up. I wonder if one of

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Speaker 1: you guys, because I know I've done this a lot

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Speaker 1: of times, having to explain the difference between master recording rights, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, that word master is probably going to

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Speaker 1: be not used anymore, but just for the sake of

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Speaker 1: this battle, explain somebody the difference between master rights and publishing.

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Speaker 1: All right, I'll go first. That's a no win question,

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Speaker 1: by the way, you know, an hour from now. I alright, So,

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Speaker 1: master recording is the recording that you hear when you

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Speaker 1: listen to the radio or you have your headphones on

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Speaker 1: you're hearing the physical manifestation of a song. The song

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Speaker 1: is a bunch of lyrics and notes on a piece

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Speaker 1: of paper. So one way to think of it is,

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Speaker 1: hey Jude was written by Lennon and McCartney. They wrote it,

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Speaker 1: somebody trend thcribed it onto a piece of paper, and

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Speaker 1: that's the song. It doesn't you don't actually have to

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Speaker 1: be able to hear it for it to be a song.

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Speaker 1: It's a song existing on a piece of paper. There

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Speaker 1: have been what do you think seven covers of pay Jude?

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Speaker 1: Maybe a hundred thousand covers. Each of those recordings of

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Speaker 1: Hey Jude is a master recording. It's a recording of

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Speaker 1: that song. And the important thing to know is that

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Speaker 1: every time that song is played or otherwise exploited, Lennon McCartney,

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Speaker 1: the people that own that publishing, they get a slice

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Speaker 1: of the economics every single version, all a hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: versions that song, something flows to them. But depending upon

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Speaker 1: which version of the recording is being exploited, it's one

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Speaker 1: of the other hundred thousand artists or people who's getting

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Speaker 1: a piece of the master recording part of the economics.

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Speaker 1: That makes sense to get two sets of economics publishing

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Speaker 1: is unitary. Recordings is on admitted how many versions of

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Speaker 1: a song can be recorded. Harvey as An as the

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Speaker 1: artist on this panel, the songwriter. I mentioned some of

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Speaker 1: your credits to Michael Jackson, Jennifer Hudson, Whitney Houston, Elton

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Speaker 1: John Have you considered selling your publishing, Like, can you

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Speaker 1: take us through what kind of mental deliberations you might think?

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Speaker 1: Would you? Yeah? Maybe a little embarrassing because I have

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Speaker 1: gone through the back and forth about it, and I

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Speaker 1: know we've all been discussing the ratios and the payoffs

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Speaker 1: that are available, but I have been hesitant to sell

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Speaker 1: mind just because of personal belief that I like to

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Speaker 1: hold on to what I've created to this point. Probably

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Speaker 1: not the smartest decision in the world financially, but I'm

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Speaker 1: very proud of what I've created. I'm proud of my songs,

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Speaker 1: and I like to keep him for now. So I've

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Speaker 1: gone back and forth and That's where I've landed so far. Okay, sorry.

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Speaker 1: As a firm, we are we are very intent that

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Speaker 1: we do not solicit artists or creators to purchase their

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Speaker 1: music if they are actively looking to sell. We are

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Speaker 1: excited to compete, but we are not here to push

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Speaker 1: people to do things before they're ready. And because we

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Speaker 1: are a firm dedicated to the entertainment, media and sports

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Speaker 1: segment R at large, we are along duration players. We

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Speaker 1: are not tourists. We intend to hope. I'm hopefully building

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Speaker 1: a firm that with stands a test of time, lives past.

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Speaker 1: My legacy will be here in ten years when you're ready.

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Speaker 1: We'll be here next month if you're ready. So we

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Speaker 1: really respect the decisions of the creative ecosystem as to

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Speaker 1: when it makes sense for them. Well, and that's important

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Speaker 1: to say. I that was just my personal belief. I

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Speaker 1: have no qualms with people who feel like it's time

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Speaker 1: to sell their catalogs, and I think it's great in

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Speaker 1: many instances. So that's just where I am so far.

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Speaker 1: See we'll see next week. Well, there's also unrealistic expectations

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Speaker 1: from some artists and songwriters because they hear these insane numbers. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: they're like, where's my four million allegedly unconfirmed cerise. You

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Speaker 1: and I've talked about this this sort of like I

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Speaker 1: don't want to say unrealistic expectation, but how did you

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Speaker 1: describe it? There are two pieces to the equation. There's

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Speaker 1: obviously the imprint of what the art is and how

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Speaker 1: important it is culturally, who it's important too and why.

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Speaker 1: And then there's obviously for people who have stakeholders. We

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Speaker 1: all have stakeholders sitting here at this at this table,

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Speaker 1: we have shareholders in some instances, either public or private UM,

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Speaker 1: and so a big part of what we are, what

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Speaker 1: we're supposed to do, is also deliver a return to

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Speaker 1: our shareholders. And a lot of times, you know, we

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Speaker 1: hear all these big numbers. We hear twining, we hear

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Speaker 1: twenty five, we hear thirty times. And that's not always

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Speaker 1: the case on everything. All things are not created equal,

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Speaker 1: not because it isn't um just as valuable from a

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Speaker 1: imprint on culture perspective. But there is a lot of

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Speaker 1: factors that go into how you size a purchase price,

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Speaker 1: inclusive of age and sive of you know, quality of

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Speaker 1: earning streams, inclusive of diversification. So there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: things that go into it. And sometimes, you know, especially

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Speaker 1: in conversations like this, it's super easy because the science

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Speaker 1: is boring. I am a science geek. I grew up

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Speaker 1: in the financial markets, but I did play the piano

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Speaker 1: for fifteen years, um. But so the science is boring,

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Speaker 1: it takes too long to discuss. So that's what we're

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Speaker 1: all shorthanded and talk about, right, But the truth of

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Speaker 1: the matter is there's a lot more that goes into it.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes what's unfortunate for seller expectations is that that's

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Speaker 1: all they hear, and so they don't hear the nuance

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Speaker 1: that goes into the conversation. But that being said, we

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Speaker 1: really try to focus on having a very agnostic view

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Speaker 1: as it relates to genre, as it relates to type

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Speaker 1: of music that we're buying. We really try to focus

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Speaker 1: on looking using the science to drive decision making, and

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Speaker 1: I think what that's allowed us to do is actually

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Speaker 1: see things that other people don't necessarily see. Like we

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Speaker 1: sort of have this saying internally that the world is round,

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Speaker 1: it's not flat, which means it's not only the things

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Speaker 1: that you see in the four corners of your universe,

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Speaker 1: but it's really about the fact that there's a whole

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Speaker 1: global x experience and sometimes the music that I love

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Speaker 1: is not the music that you love, is not the

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Speaker 1: music that you love, But that's perfectly fine, and that

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Speaker 1: allows us to see and engage with creators that some

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Speaker 1: people here may never have even heard of, but also

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Speaker 1: allows us to engage with all the names that we've

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Speaker 1: all heard of. So tying all that together means that

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Speaker 1: everything is not all the same. We put all that

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Speaker 1: together to come up with a point of view and

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Speaker 1: what we think is the right point of view to

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Speaker 1: pay for something, and we try to treat it with

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Speaker 1: the respect that it deserves. And on the artist side,

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Speaker 1: you know, they have to be sparked with their money. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's that's a whole other Yeah. Absolutely, And

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Speaker 1: I think look to be honest too. And I think

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Speaker 1: everybody here on on this panel that's in the process

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Speaker 1: of buying believe in this philosophy as well. But we

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Speaker 1: really try to be people of our word. Like, if

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Speaker 1: I can pay you a hundred dollars, he's a hundred dollars.

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Speaker 1: If I can't, I can't. If someone else is promising

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Speaker 1: to pay you a hundred and twenty dollars but then

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Speaker 1: they meg later until you they only got that's just

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Speaker 1: not a thing that we do. So I think sellers

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Speaker 1: also need to just be cognizant of engaging with firms

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Speaker 1: and people who are really people of the world. Last

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Speaker 1: question on this and then we'll move on. So here

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Speaker 1: are some of the artists that have sold interests in

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Speaker 1: their their catalogs. Bruce Springsteen, Neil Young, Paul Simon, members

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Speaker 1: of Fleetwood Mac Sensing a trend here, like the radio dial,

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Speaker 1: there is only so much classic rock? Is that genre

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Speaker 1: sort of waited more heavily? And will that signify any

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Speaker 1: kind of slow down or fizzling of this robust market. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this seems like I'll go first and then these guys

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Speaker 1: can pick up part my answer. I think that you know,

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Speaker 1: when we talk about genres and we talk about multiples,

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Speaker 1: we are we are definitely using very simplistic shorthand. It's

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Speaker 1: the way you talk about it in a conversation. The

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Speaker 1: process is really about analyzing the composition of the revenues

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Speaker 1: that are in a catalog. The composition of the revenues

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Speaker 1: means where's the money coming from. Is it coming just

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Speaker 1: from streaming? Is it also coming from terrestrial radio? Is

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Speaker 1: it mostly coming from the US? Is it also coming

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Speaker 1: from foreign If you look at genres of music for

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Speaker 1: the past fifty years, classic rock checks a lot of boxes.

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Speaker 1: It's not that classic rock inherently commands a better multiple.

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Speaker 1: It's more that when you look at what is checking

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Speaker 1: the most boxes and what has a good worldwide footprint,

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Speaker 1: you can justify paying hot numbers for a lot of

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Speaker 1: classic rock. But at the same time, when you look

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Speaker 1: at a catalog, one of the most key factors is

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Speaker 1: how old is it right? Is it seasoned? Are you

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Speaker 1: looking at something that just dropped twenty four months ago,

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Speaker 1: in which case you don't know where you are on

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Speaker 1: the curve you can you can't figure out what number

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Speaker 1: to put into your model. But there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: music that's come out in the last thirty years that

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Speaker 1: is not classic rock, and a lot of it is

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Speaker 1: has trial well outside the US, a lot of it

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Speaker 1: checks a lot of boxes, and those genres those artists

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Speaker 1: will trade do trade at the same kind of multiples.

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Speaker 1: To go back to the simplistic way of looking at

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Speaker 1: it as classic rock, but part of it is just

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Speaker 1: a is just a process of what are the older

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Speaker 1: dominant artists that are getting to an age where they

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Speaker 1: are open to the idea of selling. But that process

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Speaker 1: changes and continues for the next fifty years, and there

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Speaker 1: will be different artists. Right thirty years from now, someone

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Speaker 1: will pay a Springsteen multiple for Drake because that is

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Speaker 1: today's pop music. That is that is our worldwide music.

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Speaker 1: Now we need to take the quick break, but we'll

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Speaker 1: be back with more from speakers, Marks Amino, Charie Clark,

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Speaker 1: store Is, Harvey Mason Jr. And Stop Pascucci and we're

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Speaker 1: back with more from the Milky Institute's Global Conference. You know,

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Speaker 1: music is an industry that is oftentimes at odds with itself.

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Speaker 1: And I would say at the top of this evidence

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Speaker 1: heap is the relationship between DSPs which Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon,

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Speaker 1: Title and the major music companies. Spotify, for instance, label

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Speaker 1: groups owned or own not an insignificant equity share, and

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Speaker 1: if you look at the stock price, it's down six

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Speaker 1: since the start of We saw what happened with Netflix

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Speaker 1: recently when they're subscriber growth slowed. Do you think, and Mark,

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Speaker 1: this is probably a question that I would love to

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Speaker 1: hear your answer to that this relationship that was symbiotic

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Speaker 1: has almost become like more antagonistic. And I say this

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Speaker 1: because when it comes to songwriters, they are paid the

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Speaker 1: smallest amount. When it comes to royalties, the labels make

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Speaker 1: the vast majority, already eighty something percent um because they

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Speaker 1: are the master rights holders and the songwriters get about

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Speaker 1: which is divided between the publisher and the writer, and

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Speaker 1: then of course there are splits on the song. So

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Speaker 1: you're talking about like fractions of assent for a song

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Speaker 1: that wouldn't exist without the songwriters. So as you who

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Speaker 1: worked like UMPG and represents songwriters and then UMG the

430
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: biggest company music company in the world, Like, how do

431
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 1: you juggle these things? Look, I don't think that the

432
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 1: relationship is antagonistic, right um I think it might. Need

433
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: you know, it's slightly off in terms of the calibration

434
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 1: because I think the people that work at the DSPs

435
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 1: are also music lovers and they recognize the value of songwriters.

436
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 1: They don't necessarily agree with where we think the songwriters

437
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 1: should be. We fight every day to make sure that

438
00:24:55,160 --> 00:25:00,080
Speaker 1: our songwriters are being properly compensated and fairly compensated it and

439
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: and it's not where we would like it to be.

440
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: But I don't think it's because did DSPs don't value

441
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: the songwriters. I think that there's a slight tension, like

442
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: I said in the calibration, but I'm optimistic, especially with

443
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: the work that the n m p A is doing,

444
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: and Harvey's organization is doing. The publishers are aggressively pushing

445
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 1: to make sure that songwriters are compensated. Is our guide

446
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: post in every single thing that we do. But I

447
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a doomsday scenario between us and

448
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: the DSPs. Okay, I'll say I just chip in as

449
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,479
Speaker 1: as as a creator who has seen my personal royalty

450
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: statement go from this to this. But with that being said,

451
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: I see this is a real partnership with the tech

452
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: companies and streaming companies because they've brought our music to

453
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: so many millions of people that might not have ever

454
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: been able to access that. They've made it more convenient,

455
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: more available. So I agree with Mark, it is not

456
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: a doomsday situation. It's there needs to be some accommodations

457
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: made and some changes made to the model. I think

458
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: they realized that, and we've been having great conversations. Not

459
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 1: to say that we have an answer on the horizon,

460
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 1: but I do think you know, as you said, there

461
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 1: their music lovers. The people were there at the platforms.

462
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 1: They love music, and every time I talk to me,

463
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 1: tell me about their favorite song and their favorite artists,

464
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 1: and they're they're trying to figure out their business model.

465
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: We're trying to figure out that the creator's business model.

466
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: I think coming together to find some some solution is

467
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 1: probably gonna hopefully come shortly with the aid of federal

468
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,479
Speaker 1: legislators and lawmakers who were constantly talking to so as

469
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 1: I spoke to Charis about that's going to be something

470
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: that we have to watch closely because that will affect

471
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 1: the value of these catalogs or these the value of

472
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: individual songs. It will also affect by the way, the

473
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: writers and creators that I'm finding that are carrying two

474
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: extra jobs when they're writing huge hit songs. I was

475
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 1: with a young woman in d C. Last week who

476
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 1: was nominated for a Grammy for a Song of the Year,

477
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: and she was still driving rideshare service job and also

478
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: working at a restaurant while having her song stream billions

479
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: of times and having been nominated for a Grammy. And

480
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: so when you see the inequity there, you start to

481
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 1: be a little bit concerned because for me, and I

482
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: think for all of us on the stage, we want

483
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: to see the best creators making music. We don't want

484
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 1: to lose a whole generation of songwriters or creators to

485
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 1: another job because they couldn't afford to pay their bills,

486
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 1: or they couldn't afford to eat, so they go get

487
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 1: a job, you know, on Wall Street or as a barista,

488
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: either one. And so for us, figuring that out is

489
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 1: very important and making sure that we allow people the

490
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: opportunity to monetize their And just one other stat that

491
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 1: I think is important to acknowledge. Everybody has a different number,

492
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: but the number that I hear there's seventy thousand songs

493
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: a day being put up on these platforms. And so

494
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 1: you think about the amount of content, how that has changed.

495
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: And you asked, was this a boom with consumption? And

496
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 1: I don't see it that way. I don't any But

497
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: do we think that the creativity is at an all

498
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: time high, the consumptions at an all time high, the enjoyment,

499
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: the effect on our lives and our culture has never

500
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: been higher, and I don't see that ever changing. Okay, well,

501
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: we'll see what happens with the copyright royalty board. Fingers crossed. Remember,

502
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: you know, subscription, it's still early days, right, We've been

503
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: living with it now for seven or eight years, and

504
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: it's booming, But at the same time, it's still early days.

505
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: And it takes time to get these things worked out

506
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 1: in a proper way. Yeah, and look, if you know

507
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: the television or the streaming TV industry, is any indication

508
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: people sign up for multiple services and pay a lot

509
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: of money to get the content that they want, the

510
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: entertainment that they want. So it's it's certainly there. We

511
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: might be sacrilegious to say this, but we also don't

512
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: know how long streaming is gonna last. Right, we had

513
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: the sets, we had CDs, we had violent streaming. Yeah,

514
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: well that's kind of why I was. I brought it

515
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: up because I've definitely read that there's the belief that

516
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: there's a finite market for people who want to pay

517
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: for subscriptions only because they can get it for free. Yeah,

518
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: but you know we're different than the spot services, right,

519
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: I mean there's a churn that exists at Netflix or Hulu,

520
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: which is mostly driven by the content that they have. Right,

521
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: there's a resounding yes to having an entire music catalog

522
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 1: on your phone. Right. There's nuanced differences between Amazon, Apple

523
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,959
Speaker 1: and Spotify, but they're predominantly the same, and that you

524
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: can walk around an entire music catalog on your phone

525
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 1: and I don't see the same kind of churn that

526
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: exists on a Netflix or or Hulu. Well, let's talk

527
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: about the future of music and as a commodity n

528
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: f T S the metaverse web three. These are terms

529
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: that are being thrown around a lot these days. You've

530
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: said this, and I think it's kind of brilliant that

531
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: we're in the MySpace stage when it comes to music

532
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: in the metaverse. I think that's I think that's a

533
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: hunder penntry. But let me give credit where appropriate credit

534
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: to do. My dear friend Morgan D. Bruin, who started

535
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: who's the CEO and founder of Levity, is the one

536
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: that told me that. And I completely believe that we

537
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: know that it's coming. It's here, we're hearing it, we're

538
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: feeling it, but we don't know exactly what it's going

539
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: to look like. So we're still really early days on

540
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: what the monetization model is. How will we all engage?

541
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:23,959
Speaker 1: Are we all gonna walk around with headsets on our

542
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: heads for a long periodime? Are they we're gonna go

543
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: to work like that? Like these are questions that we're

544
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: all asking ourselves. Who's going to engage? Is the communities?

545
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: Is that communities around gaming is the communities around children.

546
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: So I think we're still very much so learning what

547
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: this new segment of technology is going to do, but

548
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: I do think it's coming. I do believe that n

549
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: f T S and or blockchain is a really engaged

550
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: in interesting way for creators to be have a better

551
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: seat at the table. I don't know if we have

552
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: the exact again monetization model that we all think it's

553
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: going to be the right way, But for example, literally

554
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: was just having this conversation with someone earlier today where

555
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: they were talking about how they've tried to participate into

556
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: in the nas n f T that was offered, and

557
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: it was like really exciting for them as a fan

558
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: to sponsor the content and to help to promote the

559
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: content in that way, even if they never necessarily made

560
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,479
Speaker 1: back a hundred cents on the dollar in terms of

561
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: what they invested in from the n f T, but

562
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: that engagement in that crowdsourcing from the community and in

563
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: partnership with some of your favorite artists, I think a

564
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: really interesting one. So I think we're still early days

565
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: and how we'll see all of this stuff come together,

566
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: but I do think that it's coming, and I think

567
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: to ignore it, I think is a long time early

568
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: days is a great way to put it, and I

569
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: do think it's going to continue to grow, but I

570
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: would say it's absolutely here. We're seeing the desire for music,

571
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: and we talked about earlier. Music's omnipresent, it's everywhere, It's

572
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: in all these platforms. At the Academy this year for

573
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: the first year, and just as a reminder, I've been

574
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: a CEO for about eighteen months under two years. And

575
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: one of the first things I did when I came

576
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 1: in and I said, how is music going to be

577
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: involved in all these new platforms and formats and how

578
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: and we make sure we're on the cutting edge of

579
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: that and make sure that we're looking out for the

580
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: music community, which is really our our mission and our

581
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: job and all of our creators and members. It was

582
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: announced this week the Spotify will be the first music

583
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: streaming brand to have a presence on roadblocks when it

584
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: launches Spotify Island, so it's described as an otherworldly digital

585
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: destination for audio where fans and artists from all over

586
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: the world can explore wonderland of sounds, quests and super

587
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: special merch collectibles. Is a big part of n F

588
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: t S Web three, the metaverse. Let's talk about that

589
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: a little bit. Actually, I want to throw in a

590
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: little stat too, So as much as we're talking about digital,

591
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: physical formats of music had such a huge it was

592
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: the fifteen consecutive year where vinyl sales grew to the

593
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: tune of or a billion dollars. So, for some context,

594
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: the last time the vinyl records exceeded a billion dollars

595
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: in sale is was a s So it is kind

596
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: of funny the way that the music industry works again,

597
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: just like one of these nonsensical things. Scott, from your

598
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: previous positions at Rhino and now a Concorde, you've really

599
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: probably witnessed the surge up close. Do you see a

600
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: connection between the popularity of vinyl and how n f

601
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: T s can be looked at as collectibles that someone

602
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: can actually afford to purchase. Yeah, I hadn't thought of

603
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: that before, been sure. I mean, vinal defines a different

604
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: relationship between the listener and the music. You listen to

605
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: music differently in vinyl, not because it sounds different, but

606
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: because you make the commitment to put something on and

607
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: listen to it from beginning down on one side and

608
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: then if you like it, you turn it over. You

609
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: do the same thing on the other side. It's a

610
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: very different relationship than what you do when you're on

611
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: Spotify or whatever, where you're very flitting. You can be

612
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: very impatient, you can change your mind, and you don't

613
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: own the music right and the way you think about

614
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: the music contextually is very different because you don't think

615
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: of it as being a third track that followed the

616
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: first and second track. It's just attract on Spotify, so

617
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,320
Speaker 1: certain people really like that more than they like streaming.

618
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: A lot of people like the two in tandem with

619
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: each other. But both limited edition merch n f T

620
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: s the way they're currently sitting in the market, and

621
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 1: I think they'll be bigger n f T ideas before

622
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: this is all over and probably have a pervasive effect

623
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 1: on the industry. But right now, to me, it's a

624
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:30,240
Speaker 1: limited product niche, similar to the limited edition merch, similar

625
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: to limit edition vinyl, and it's for the hardcore fans

626
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: that really really want to have something that not everybody

627
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 1: else has. Streaming services are ubiquitous and everybody has them,

628
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: so there's nothing special about your relationship with the artists.

629
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 1: If you listen to it I'm streaming, So yeah, I

630
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: think that's a fair comp Vinyl to n f T S.

631
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 1: It allows you to say, I love this artist so much,

632
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 1: I'm doing this and I'm doing that, and it's in

633
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: addition to simply listening to the music on your headphones.

634
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 1: And in a way, it's kind of like the fan

635
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 1: is able to invest in the musician's career in what

636
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: they're selling, which is definitely different from you. And you're

637
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 1: sending your money directly to that artist, and streaming, you're

638
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 1: paying a subscription that gets spread out amongst all the

639
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: artists on the platform. If you buy the record, the

640
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: majority of that money is going to the label of

641
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: the publian company and the artist directly. All right, well,

642
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to see if we have any questions from

643
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: the audience on our little lipen. Let's see, oh we have, Well,

644
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 1: we have questions. Would artist education benefit both sides of

645
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,800
Speaker 1: the business as these issues you've discussed continue to evolve,

646
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: I would say yes, Harvey. Are you guys making efforts

647
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: to educate artists about finances and planning big time? That's

648
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 1: we're heavily investing in that side of the academy because

649
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: we are an Academy, and a lot of it is

650
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: around education and making sure we are bringing awareness and

651
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 1: education to not just our members, the music community at large,

652
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 1: and we touched on it earlier. We believe the more

653
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 1: creators and artists are educated, healthy our ecosystem is, the

654
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: more we can do good business and we can be

655
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: in better partnership with everyone from publishers, the labels, to

656
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: streamers to investors. So yes, very important and something we're

657
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: very intent on making sure we work hard at. There's

658
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: a question here about the democratization of the music business.

659
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: As an artist that is not on the label, it's

660
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: incredibly difficult to get exposure. Label still control all the channels.

661
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: Oftentimes the cream does not in fact rise to the top.

662
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 1: How can the music industry help smaller artists make a

663
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: more viable living. I would say that record deals are

664
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: probably more in favor of the artists than they have

665
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 1: been in the past because artists have gotten smart too.

666
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,280
Speaker 1: You know, you can license my song, here's a completed album,

667
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: I want to retain my masters, And there's so much

668
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 1: buzz around some of these new artists that they're able

669
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: to really use that as leverage. But what would you say,

670
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,760
Speaker 1: just for the smaller artists. There's a lot of articles

671
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: out there about how you can't sustain life on the road,

672
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: you're not getting paid enough as a songwriter from streaming.

673
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: I think it's really hard to replicate having an army

674
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: of people around the world working for you. And I

675
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: think it's easy for Radiohead after twenty years to go

676
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: off and do it themselves, or will go to go

677
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 1: off and do it themselves. But on day one, I

678
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: think you can find a niche following and make a

679
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 1: living and have a career. But to get to that

680
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 1: highest level that every one of us on this panel

681
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 1: is familiar with, I think there's nothing more powerful than

682
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: have than knowing you have a hundred fifty to two

683
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,919
Speaker 1: hundred people around the world that are constantly out there

684
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: trying to get people exposed to your music. Yeah, and

685
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:50,280
Speaker 1: the sifting process that goes on, you know, the sifting

686
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: process by which writers and artists either do or don't

687
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: get the services of the large players behind them is

688
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: not inherently rational. It can be brutal, and it doesn't

689
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: necessarily lead to the best music. And that's just the

690
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: unfortunate reality of the business, as all of us know.

691
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: You know, we we've all had creative friends that we

692
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:15,399
Speaker 1: thought were incredibly talented that did not get shifted. They

693
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: didn't they didn't get there. And then occasionally you'll you'll

694
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: hear something and you think, really, I have that that

695
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: made it well. I don't know if there's anything new

696
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: in that, because that's been happening. But the difference now

697
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: is the coolest thing about the music is the opportunity.

698
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: Business is now open for anybody. You can make a

699
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: song in your bedroom on a laptop and have it

700
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: on the platforms in two days. Not saying you're going

701
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: to find an audience instantly and you don't need the

702
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 1: hundred and fifties hundred people to blow up, but to

703
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: make music and to be able to create what you're thinking,

704
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: what you're feeling in your head and heart, and to

705
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,399
Speaker 1: have it exposed the world as a new opportunity. We've

706
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 1: never had that. When I started, you had to go

707
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: and try and shop a deal and get somebody to believe,

708
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: and you spend a million dollars to put you in

709
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: the studio market. The music it is completely opened up

710
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: the creative opportunities for so many people, and for me,

711
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 1: I'm extremely thankful for that I'm extremely optimistic about what

712
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: that's going to result in for our industry and the

713
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: creativity that that generates. And I think it's just darn

714
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: fun to see all these different people making all this

715
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:19,919
Speaker 1: amazing art. Oh yeah, all right, guys, thanks so much

716
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: for joining us. Thank you guys, than fine, all right,

717
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: thanks for tuning into varieties strictly business. Please make sure

718
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,800
Speaker 1: you subscribe to the podcast to your future episodes featuring

719
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 1: conversations with media movers and shakers. Also leave a review

720
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts and let us know how we're doing