1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:24,396 Speaker 1: Pushkin. When people find out I teach a class about happiness, 2 00:00:24,676 --> 00:00:27,316 Speaker 1: they usually ask for the Cliffdnes version, what are my 3 00:00:27,356 --> 00:00:30,716 Speaker 1: top ten tips or top five? Some people even go 4 00:00:30,756 --> 00:00:33,396 Speaker 1: straight to the point, what's one thing I can change 5 00:00:33,476 --> 00:00:36,196 Speaker 1: in order to be happier? When my Yale students ask 6 00:00:36,236 --> 00:00:40,436 Speaker 1: me this, my answer is always the same. Get some sleep. 7 00:00:41,396 --> 00:00:43,196 Speaker 1: Having a solid eight hours of shut eye is the 8 00:00:43,236 --> 00:00:46,396 Speaker 1: foundation on which all the other happiness habits rest. If 9 00:00:46,396 --> 00:00:49,156 Speaker 1: you're exhausted, you aren't going to make progress on any 10 00:00:49,196 --> 00:00:52,436 Speaker 1: of the topics we tackle in this podcast. So that's 11 00:00:52,436 --> 00:00:56,316 Speaker 1: the simple answer. Happiness requires sleep. The problem is that 12 00:00:56,396 --> 00:00:59,956 Speaker 1: getting the right amount isn't always easy for me. There's 13 00:00:59,956 --> 00:01:02,996 Speaker 1: always that one last email to send before bed, just 14 00:01:03,156 --> 00:01:05,796 Speaker 1: to get it off my plate, But then another arrives, 15 00:01:05,876 --> 00:01:09,236 Speaker 1: and another, and before I know it, hours have passed 16 00:01:09,316 --> 00:01:11,396 Speaker 1: and the stresses of the day have just crept under 17 00:01:11,396 --> 00:01:14,596 Speaker 1: the covers with me. In the final episode of our 18 00:01:14,676 --> 00:01:17,356 Speaker 1: New Year mini season, I'm going to talk about sleep 19 00:01:17,356 --> 00:01:20,196 Speaker 1: with one of my favorite experts on the subject. She's 20 00:01:20,236 --> 00:01:23,516 Speaker 1: not a scientist, but she's experienced firsthand what it's like 21 00:01:23,636 --> 00:01:26,316 Speaker 1: to live on the edge of exhaustion. In her book 22 00:01:26,316 --> 00:01:29,516 Speaker 1: The Sleep Revolution, She explores how we got ourselves into 23 00:01:29,516 --> 00:01:31,596 Speaker 1: this sleepless mess and what we can do to get 24 00:01:31,636 --> 00:01:33,876 Speaker 1: out of it. I was so excited to chat with 25 00:01:33,876 --> 00:01:36,596 Speaker 1: her about these sleep solutions that I decided to host 26 00:01:36,636 --> 00:01:39,116 Speaker 1: our chat in front of a live studio audience at 27 00:01:39,116 --> 00:01:41,996 Speaker 1: the wings Soho Space in New York. Who is the 28 00:01:42,036 --> 00:01:45,556 Speaker 1: Sleep Girl. She is best selling author, calumnist, and founding 29 00:01:45,596 --> 00:01:49,836 Speaker 1: CEO of the well being giant Thrive Global, Arianna Puffing Dood. 30 00:01:50,436 --> 00:01:53,116 Speaker 1: So join me and Arianna in this finale episode of 31 00:01:53,276 --> 00:02:04,236 Speaker 1: The Happiness Lab twenty twenty. So. I wanted to start 32 00:02:04,276 --> 00:02:07,396 Speaker 1: at the beginning with your story, Arianna, because you learned 33 00:02:07,396 --> 00:02:10,356 Speaker 1: about the power of sleep firsthand and with a pretty 34 00:02:10,356 --> 00:02:12,236 Speaker 1: scary wakeup call. So I want to set the stage. 35 00:02:12,236 --> 00:02:13,836 Speaker 1: So tell me what your life was like before that 36 00:02:13,876 --> 00:02:17,436 Speaker 1: big wake up call. My life before my wake up call, 37 00:02:17,596 --> 00:02:21,316 Speaker 1: which happened in two thousand and seven in the spring 38 00:02:21,356 --> 00:02:25,676 Speaker 1: of two thousand and seven, was filled with sleep deprivation. 39 00:02:26,876 --> 00:02:30,916 Speaker 1: I was a divorced mother of two teenage daughters and 40 00:02:31,076 --> 00:02:36,076 Speaker 1: had founded The Huffington Post two years earlier, and I 41 00:02:36,116 --> 00:02:40,156 Speaker 1: had bought into the collective delusion that in order to 42 00:02:40,236 --> 00:02:44,876 Speaker 1: be super mom and super founder, I just had to 43 00:02:44,916 --> 00:02:47,196 Speaker 1: burn out, and that was just the price you pay 44 00:02:47,236 --> 00:02:51,196 Speaker 1: for success. But worse than that, if you had asked 45 00:02:51,196 --> 00:02:54,196 Speaker 1: me that morning, how are your ian, I would have 46 00:02:54,236 --> 00:02:58,156 Speaker 1: said fine. And that's one of the saddest things, because 47 00:02:58,596 --> 00:03:02,516 Speaker 1: I had forgotten what it really is to be fine 48 00:03:03,356 --> 00:03:07,836 Speaker 1: and what it is to be really recharged and fully 49 00:03:08,556 --> 00:03:12,836 Speaker 1: engaged in your life. So I'd actually returned from doing 50 00:03:12,956 --> 00:03:18,316 Speaker 1: him an early morning show on CNN and went to 51 00:03:18,356 --> 00:03:21,636 Speaker 1: get a sweater because I was feeling cold and I 52 00:03:21,676 --> 00:03:24,396 Speaker 1: felt like collapsed. I hit my head on my desk, 53 00:03:24,596 --> 00:03:28,036 Speaker 1: broke my check bone. When you suddenly collapse, they don't 54 00:03:28,036 --> 00:03:31,196 Speaker 1: know what's wrong with you. So you go from echo 55 00:03:31,276 --> 00:03:36,596 Speaker 1: cardiogram to test for brain tumors, etc. Etc. And you know, 56 00:03:36,796 --> 00:03:40,276 Speaker 1: doctor's waiting rooms are a great place to reflect on 57 00:03:40,356 --> 00:03:44,276 Speaker 1: your life. And at the end of it, you know, 58 00:03:44,396 --> 00:03:47,436 Speaker 1: literally after all these tests, I have this amazing kind 59 00:03:47,436 --> 00:03:50,916 Speaker 1: of philosophical doctor who said to me, I have all 60 00:03:50,956 --> 00:03:58,636 Speaker 1: the results, and what you have is civilizations disease burnout. 61 00:03:59,636 --> 00:04:01,996 Speaker 1: And he said, I'm sorry to tell you that there 62 00:04:02,076 --> 00:04:05,516 Speaker 1: is nothing the medical profession can do for you. You 63 00:04:05,636 --> 00:04:07,836 Speaker 1: have to change the way you live, which was very 64 00:04:07,916 --> 00:04:13,356 Speaker 1: profound because a lot of doctors still think there is 65 00:04:13,396 --> 00:04:18,356 Speaker 1: a drug for every problem, or you can't sleep, or 66 00:04:18,436 --> 00:04:21,716 Speaker 1: just a cambion. No, No, the problem is not that, 67 00:04:21,956 --> 00:04:24,996 Speaker 1: The problem is that I don't prioritize it. So he 68 00:04:25,076 --> 00:04:29,476 Speaker 1: actually took the time and had the wisdom to go deeper. 69 00:04:29,996 --> 00:04:33,716 Speaker 1: Looking back, it was kind of a total gift. It 70 00:04:33,876 --> 00:04:38,756 Speaker 1: stopped me. It got me reflecting on my life, on 71 00:04:38,916 --> 00:04:41,396 Speaker 1: what I was doing, and because I'm a bit of 72 00:04:41,436 --> 00:04:46,036 Speaker 1: a research nerd, it also got me looking at the 73 00:04:46,076 --> 00:04:49,796 Speaker 1: fact that all around the world, hundreds of millions of 74 00:04:49,876 --> 00:04:53,836 Speaker 1: people were burned out, that this was not an individual problem, 75 00:04:54,276 --> 00:04:57,196 Speaker 1: it was a collective problem. So talk about some of 76 00:04:57,476 --> 00:05:01,076 Speaker 1: the broad changes you made, and then specifically about sleep. Well, 77 00:05:02,476 --> 00:05:07,396 Speaker 1: the first change I made, being always the editor, was 78 00:05:07,436 --> 00:05:11,476 Speaker 1: to bring all this topic into the Huffington Post. So 79 00:05:11,596 --> 00:05:16,676 Speaker 1: suddenly the Hvingdon Post, which was a political site, started 80 00:05:16,916 --> 00:05:24,436 Speaker 1: covering sleep and we launched a dedicated sleep section in 81 00:05:24,436 --> 00:05:28,036 Speaker 1: two thousand and seven. And I remember a conversation at 82 00:05:28,076 --> 00:05:31,156 Speaker 1: the Huffington Post board with a lot of complaints from 83 00:05:31,156 --> 00:05:34,956 Speaker 1: board members saying that they thought this was not serious, 84 00:05:35,076 --> 00:05:38,756 Speaker 1: it was a trivial topic and why was the Havingdon 85 00:05:38,836 --> 00:05:41,556 Speaker 1: Post covering it? It turned out to be actually the 86 00:05:41,596 --> 00:05:43,916 Speaker 1: best thing that would have happened to the Huvington Post, 87 00:05:43,996 --> 00:05:48,196 Speaker 1: because by the time I left in twenty sixteen, we 88 00:05:48,996 --> 00:05:53,036 Speaker 1: had over sixty percent of our traffic coming from non 89 00:05:53,116 --> 00:05:58,756 Speaker 1: political issues. In my personal life, I really began to 90 00:05:58,836 --> 00:06:03,236 Speaker 1: prioritize sleep. We have been treating sleep or something negotiable, 91 00:06:03,956 --> 00:06:10,116 Speaker 1: something optional, or worse, something that really dedicates that ambitious 92 00:06:10,196 --> 00:06:13,836 Speaker 1: people didn't really have to give in too. You know, 93 00:06:13,956 --> 00:06:17,276 Speaker 1: of course, we have all these sayings in our culture, right, 94 00:06:17,356 --> 00:06:21,516 Speaker 1: I'll sleep when I'm dead. John bon Java used to 95 00:06:21,556 --> 00:06:24,116 Speaker 1: live in my apartment building here in Saho, and I 96 00:06:24,116 --> 00:06:26,116 Speaker 1: said to him one day, I would love you to 97 00:06:26,156 --> 00:06:29,516 Speaker 1: redo this song, change the words to say I'll sleep 98 00:06:29,516 --> 00:06:34,636 Speaker 1: when I'm tired. The other thing, of course, that science 99 00:06:34,716 --> 00:06:36,796 Speaker 1: makes very clear is that you will be dead a 100 00:06:36,796 --> 00:06:41,436 Speaker 1: lot faster. I remember going to dinner with a guy 101 00:06:41,556 --> 00:06:45,596 Speaker 1: recently who bragged that he had only gotten for our 102 00:06:45,676 --> 00:06:50,156 Speaker 1: sleep the night before, and I remember thinking, but not saying, 103 00:06:50,836 --> 00:06:53,076 Speaker 1: you know what, if you had gotten five, this dinner 104 00:06:53,076 --> 00:06:58,716 Speaker 1: would have been a lot more interesting. But I think 105 00:06:58,756 --> 00:07:00,876 Speaker 1: the problem with this, I mean, the scary thing about 106 00:07:00,916 --> 00:07:04,116 Speaker 1: this culture is that people believe it's a badge of honor. 107 00:07:04,156 --> 00:07:05,796 Speaker 1: I mean, one of the problems with sleep is that 108 00:07:05,796 --> 00:07:07,756 Speaker 1: we're not getting it, but another is that we believe 109 00:07:07,796 --> 00:07:10,076 Speaker 1: it's okay, not in yet it And just to kind 110 00:07:10,116 --> 00:07:11,196 Speaker 1: of get a sense of that, I just want to 111 00:07:11,236 --> 00:07:13,756 Speaker 1: see the sleep crisis that we might be dealing within 112 00:07:13,836 --> 00:07:16,596 Speaker 1: this room. So how many of you would say that 113 00:07:16,676 --> 00:07:19,596 Speaker 1: you're not experiencing any form of sleep crisis, Like, in 114 00:07:19,636 --> 00:07:22,796 Speaker 1: the last two months, you've never felt tired. Oh, it's 115 00:07:22,796 --> 00:07:24,796 Speaker 1: pretty good, awesome, all right? So how many of you 116 00:07:24,796 --> 00:07:28,156 Speaker 1: would say that in the last two months you've occasionally 117 00:07:28,156 --> 00:07:32,476 Speaker 1: felt tired? Right? And how many of you are feeling 118 00:07:32,516 --> 00:07:40,196 Speaker 1: like you self report being tired a lot. That's say, 119 00:07:40,396 --> 00:07:43,156 Speaker 1: you're in the right place. Yeah, we're preaching to a 120 00:07:43,236 --> 00:07:45,476 Speaker 1: choir a little bit, but we definitely got more clapping 121 00:07:45,476 --> 00:07:48,196 Speaker 1: on the kind of crisis type. So, I mean, talk 122 00:07:48,236 --> 00:07:50,516 Speaker 1: to me about the level of this crisis, Like, how 123 00:07:50,596 --> 00:07:54,036 Speaker 1: bad is this right now? There is a scientific consensus 124 00:07:54,836 --> 00:07:58,836 Speaker 1: that unless you have a genetic mutation, and about one 125 00:07:58,876 --> 00:08:02,876 Speaker 1: and a half percent of the population does, the vast 126 00:08:03,156 --> 00:08:09,116 Speaker 1: majority of us need seven to nine hours to become 127 00:08:09,116 --> 00:08:12,996 Speaker 1: completely recharged. Where you are in the seven to nine 128 00:08:13,076 --> 00:08:18,396 Speaker 1: hour spectrum is individual. I'm an eate our girl, and 129 00:08:18,756 --> 00:08:22,756 Speaker 1: ninety five percent of the time I get it because 130 00:08:22,796 --> 00:08:26,956 Speaker 1: I prioritize it. You may be a seven hour girl 131 00:08:27,076 --> 00:08:30,396 Speaker 1: or boy, or a nine hour, but we're somewhere there 132 00:08:30,636 --> 00:08:35,196 Speaker 1: if you're going to be fully recharged. The consequences of 133 00:08:35,276 --> 00:08:40,476 Speaker 1: not getting enough sleep are so huge and monumental, you know, 134 00:08:40,556 --> 00:08:45,036 Speaker 1: starting with our health, a greater likelihood of diabetes, of 135 00:08:45,196 --> 00:08:50,476 Speaker 1: heart disease, of high stress levels of Alzheimer's. I mean 136 00:08:50,556 --> 00:08:55,836 Speaker 1: that is like the latest amazing data on the connection 137 00:08:55,956 --> 00:09:00,996 Speaker 1: between cognitive decline and sleep deprivation. It doesn't make any 138 00:09:01,196 --> 00:09:05,556 Speaker 1: rational sense not to prioritize sleep. What's amazing is it's 139 00:09:05,596 --> 00:09:08,516 Speaker 1: not just our physical health. In your book, you talk 140 00:09:08,556 --> 00:09:10,996 Speaker 1: a lot about the mental health problems that come from 141 00:09:11,036 --> 00:09:14,116 Speaker 1: not sleeping. Well, absolutely, and you know, there's such a 142 00:09:14,116 --> 00:09:20,236 Speaker 1: clear connection between sleep deprivation and depression and anxiety, which 143 00:09:20,316 --> 00:09:24,076 Speaker 1: is why I'm so excited about the movement to start 144 00:09:24,116 --> 00:09:30,516 Speaker 1: school later, which is absolutely essential. Kids go to school 145 00:09:30,556 --> 00:09:35,636 Speaker 1: exhausted that don't pay attention, they're classified as add they're 146 00:09:35,636 --> 00:09:42,196 Speaker 1: put on medication, and it's that vicious cycle which is 147 00:09:42,676 --> 00:09:48,196 Speaker 1: completely unnecessary if kids show up at school completely recharged. 148 00:09:48,476 --> 00:09:51,196 Speaker 1: So where do you think this mistaken notion comes from, Like, 149 00:09:51,236 --> 00:09:53,956 Speaker 1: how did we get so off track with this? I 150 00:09:53,996 --> 00:09:58,116 Speaker 1: trace it back to the Industrial Revolution because it was 151 00:09:58,236 --> 00:10:03,836 Speaker 1: during the Industrial Revolution when we started revering machines. And 152 00:10:03,956 --> 00:10:07,756 Speaker 1: of course the goal with the machine is to minimize downtime. 153 00:10:08,236 --> 00:10:13,796 Speaker 1: I met someone here from Salesforce and proudly proclaims that 154 00:10:13,876 --> 00:10:17,756 Speaker 1: I have ninety nine point nine nine nine percent up time. 155 00:10:18,476 --> 00:10:24,476 Speaker 1: That is fantastic for software, but for the human operating system, 156 00:10:24,756 --> 00:10:29,276 Speaker 1: downtime is not a bug, it's a feature. And you know, 157 00:10:29,316 --> 00:10:32,436 Speaker 1: if you go back to mythst of creation, you know, 158 00:10:32,516 --> 00:10:39,276 Speaker 1: every myth of creation has God or Goddess creating the 159 00:10:39,516 --> 00:10:43,316 Speaker 1: universe in six days and then taking the seventh day off. 160 00:10:45,036 --> 00:10:50,156 Speaker 1: You know, clearly God is omniscient, omnipotant, omnipresent. She didn't 161 00:10:50,156 --> 00:10:54,276 Speaker 1: need to talk the day off. She was sending us 162 00:10:54,316 --> 00:10:59,356 Speaker 1: a message we are now just beginning to listen. It's 163 00:10:59,396 --> 00:11:04,996 Speaker 1: the time off from our worldly pursuits, because there's something 164 00:11:05,036 --> 00:11:11,596 Speaker 1: about surrendering to sleep in a sense every night, recognizing 165 00:11:11,636 --> 00:11:14,196 Speaker 1: the mystery of life that we don't have answers to. 166 00:11:15,476 --> 00:11:20,316 Speaker 1: Of course, we have huge traditions of prophetic dreams, but 167 00:11:20,516 --> 00:11:24,636 Speaker 1: also dreams that simply work out through whatever it is 168 00:11:24,676 --> 00:11:27,716 Speaker 1: that's unresolved from the day. So it's kind of a 169 00:11:27,876 --> 00:11:31,996 Speaker 1: magical time, and when we acknowledge it that way, it's 170 00:11:32,036 --> 00:11:35,076 Speaker 1: easy to surrender to it. But kind of thinking of 171 00:11:35,116 --> 00:11:37,996 Speaker 1: ourselves like machines, we end up missing that magical time 172 00:11:38,076 --> 00:11:40,476 Speaker 1: or not prioritizing it. I think the other key is 173 00:11:40,516 --> 00:11:43,396 Speaker 1: just to you know, if you really believe the statistic. 174 00:11:43,396 --> 00:11:45,356 Speaker 1: I mean, the one that's most compelling for my college 175 00:11:45,356 --> 00:11:47,196 Speaker 1: students is this idea that you know, if you've been 176 00:11:47,276 --> 00:11:49,796 Speaker 1: up for seventeen hours, you basically have a blood alcohol 177 00:11:49,876 --> 00:11:52,436 Speaker 1: level that you shouldn't be driving, and like you wouldn't 178 00:11:52,436 --> 00:11:54,436 Speaker 1: go to work like that, you wouldn't take care of 179 00:11:54,476 --> 00:11:56,756 Speaker 1: your kids like that. Well, of course, you remember the 180 00:11:56,796 --> 00:12:04,316 Speaker 1: tragic incident of a brilliant student after graduation whose boyfriend 181 00:12:05,076 --> 00:12:09,596 Speaker 1: fell asleep behind the wheel and she died. There are 182 00:12:09,636 --> 00:12:12,636 Speaker 1: many tragedies like that. I mean, that became a big 183 00:12:12,676 --> 00:12:15,316 Speaker 1: story because she was brilliant. She had written a book 184 00:12:15,356 --> 00:12:19,636 Speaker 1: which was published posthumously. But there are a lot of 185 00:12:19,796 --> 00:12:25,756 Speaker 1: traffic incidents based on slip deprivation, a lot of injuries 186 00:12:26,196 --> 00:12:31,876 Speaker 1: because of slip deprivation, and then also an enormous lack 187 00:12:31,956 --> 00:12:35,556 Speaker 1: of compassion and empathy in the way we interact with 188 00:12:35,596 --> 00:12:38,796 Speaker 1: people based on slip deprivation. Basically, just think of it 189 00:12:38,876 --> 00:12:42,316 Speaker 1: that way. Look at yourself and you will recognize what 190 00:12:42,436 --> 00:12:46,756 Speaker 1: I'm saying. When I'm sleep deprived, I'm the worst version 191 00:12:46,836 --> 00:12:52,036 Speaker 1: of myself. I'm less empathetic, I'm less compassionate, I'm less creative, 192 00:12:52,196 --> 00:12:55,516 Speaker 1: I'm more reactive. In fact, I was giving a speech 193 00:12:55,556 --> 00:12:59,316 Speaker 1: at a Facebook conference and I told the engineers that 194 00:12:59,476 --> 00:13:03,156 Speaker 1: that I want them to create a feature that would 195 00:13:03,156 --> 00:13:08,116 Speaker 1: allow me to unfriend myself during those days because I 196 00:13:08,116 --> 00:13:10,036 Speaker 1: don't really want to be around me, but I have 197 00:13:10,076 --> 00:13:15,596 Speaker 1: no choice. And this is so real. It affects absolutely 198 00:13:15,676 --> 00:13:19,196 Speaker 1: every aspect of how we show up. And I find 199 00:13:20,676 --> 00:13:23,156 Speaker 1: the more you kind of look at life and reflect 200 00:13:23,196 --> 00:13:26,876 Speaker 1: on life, the more important joy becomes. So I'm not 201 00:13:27,036 --> 00:13:30,836 Speaker 1: a stage where I don't measure my life by how 202 00:13:30,876 --> 00:13:34,116 Speaker 1: effective I am. I mean, I know I can be effective. 203 00:13:34,236 --> 00:13:37,476 Speaker 1: It's like that's kind of table stakes, and I think 204 00:13:37,516 --> 00:13:41,556 Speaker 1: most people know they can be effective. The question is 205 00:13:41,636 --> 00:13:44,836 Speaker 1: can I also be joyful? Can I find joy in 206 00:13:44,956 --> 00:13:47,716 Speaker 1: what I'm doing? And that's part of what makes us 207 00:13:47,916 --> 00:13:51,116 Speaker 1: really love our work more and that's another thing that 208 00:13:51,156 --> 00:13:53,356 Speaker 1: they can flip side of all the downsides of sleep 209 00:13:53,356 --> 00:13:55,156 Speaker 1: are all the good sides of sleep that we forget 210 00:13:55,196 --> 00:13:57,436 Speaker 1: that it increases joy. You also talk in the book 211 00:13:57,436 --> 00:14:00,036 Speaker 1: about how getting enough sleep can be kind of like 212 00:14:00,076 --> 00:14:02,516 Speaker 1: a stress shield. It's sort of like a sort of 213 00:14:02,516 --> 00:14:08,356 Speaker 1: resilience performance enhancing drug. Absolutely, we know that the same 214 00:14:09,116 --> 00:14:11,556 Speaker 1: I think and happen to ten people, and they all 215 00:14:11,636 --> 00:14:16,236 Speaker 1: react differently. Someone may be completely overwhelmed and Brock and 216 00:14:16,316 --> 00:14:20,036 Speaker 1: Bite and others can just find creative ways to deal 217 00:14:20,076 --> 00:14:24,836 Speaker 1: with it, and if you're exhausted, it's less likely you'll 218 00:14:24,876 --> 00:14:27,596 Speaker 1: be able to do that. So it seems like sleep 219 00:14:27,676 --> 00:14:29,956 Speaker 1: really is a medical miracle. I hope everybody in the 220 00:14:29,956 --> 00:14:32,316 Speaker 1: audience here and everybody who's listening at home is convinced 221 00:14:32,316 --> 00:14:34,796 Speaker 1: of that. But the fact that sleep is a medical 222 00:14:35,036 --> 00:14:37,796 Speaker 1: miracle kind of raises this question about how can we 223 00:14:37,836 --> 00:14:39,876 Speaker 1: get more of it? And that is a question I'm 224 00:14:39,876 --> 00:14:42,316 Speaker 1: going to pose to Ariana. Once we return from a 225 00:14:42,396 --> 00:15:01,276 Speaker 1: quick break, the Happiness Lab will be right back. All right, 226 00:15:01,356 --> 00:15:04,196 Speaker 1: welcome back. So we've just heard the sleep deprivation basically 227 00:15:04,276 --> 00:15:06,996 Speaker 1: undermines pretty much everything we need to be happy. And 228 00:15:07,076 --> 00:15:09,396 Speaker 1: if you just want one more statistic to drive this home. 229 00:15:09,676 --> 00:15:12,076 Speaker 1: For every hour of sleep you lose. Your risk of 230 00:15:12,116 --> 00:15:15,956 Speaker 1: psychological distress goes up fourteen percent for every single hour. 231 00:15:16,556 --> 00:15:19,476 Speaker 1: So sleep is basically fantastic. We need to create more 232 00:15:19,476 --> 00:15:22,356 Speaker 1: of it. But then that raises this cultural tension, which 233 00:15:22,436 --> 00:15:25,996 Speaker 1: is even if I reflect for myself, I know the 234 00:15:26,036 --> 00:15:28,436 Speaker 1: science about this really well. I mean, I've read your book, 235 00:15:28,476 --> 00:15:30,236 Speaker 1: and you know, I teach you a course on this stuff. 236 00:15:30,636 --> 00:15:33,636 Speaker 1: But when I have to, you know, shut Netflix off 237 00:15:33,676 --> 00:15:36,516 Speaker 1: and go to bed, or put my phone away, or 238 00:15:36,596 --> 00:15:38,436 Speaker 1: really shut off for the night and put it far 239 00:15:38,476 --> 00:15:41,276 Speaker 1: away so I'm not tempted to check my email, I 240 00:15:41,316 --> 00:15:44,236 Speaker 1: honestly still struggle with that. Like, there just is this 241 00:15:44,316 --> 00:15:47,996 Speaker 1: tension between the benefits of sleep and this lifestyle where 242 00:15:47,996 --> 00:15:50,476 Speaker 1: we're always connected. And that was one of the reasons 243 00:15:50,516 --> 00:15:52,396 Speaker 1: I really wanted to talk to you, because you know, 244 00:15:52,476 --> 00:15:56,876 Speaker 1: you're a super successful businesswoman, but you've managed to solve 245 00:15:56,916 --> 00:15:59,476 Speaker 1: this tension, And so how have you been able to 246 00:15:59,476 --> 00:16:00,836 Speaker 1: fought this? I guess how did you come up with 247 00:16:00,836 --> 00:16:04,716 Speaker 1: the commitment to really fight this? The way to commit 248 00:16:04,796 --> 00:16:09,276 Speaker 1: to it is to break it down into microsteps and 249 00:16:09,396 --> 00:16:15,396 Speaker 1: pick your microsteps, stay with it and get an accountability body. 250 00:16:15,436 --> 00:16:20,076 Speaker 1: If you want, you can keep each other honest about 251 00:16:20,236 --> 00:16:25,476 Speaker 1: shutting off Netflix. Incidentally, Read Hastings, the CEO of Netflix, 252 00:16:26,116 --> 00:16:32,796 Speaker 1: said that the main competitor of Netflix is sleep, so 253 00:16:32,876 --> 00:16:36,076 Speaker 1: he knows exactly what's happening. And you know, the way 254 00:16:36,116 --> 00:16:41,636 Speaker 1: of course we are hooked is the one episode ends 255 00:16:41,796 --> 00:16:47,076 Speaker 1: and the other begins. So that's where a certain amount 256 00:16:47,116 --> 00:16:52,716 Speaker 1: of ruthlessness comes in about priorities when you begin to 257 00:16:52,756 --> 00:16:56,636 Speaker 1: see how much more you love your life when you're 258 00:16:56,676 --> 00:17:00,236 Speaker 1: not sleep deprived. And I speak as someone who spent 259 00:17:00,396 --> 00:17:04,156 Speaker 1: a large part of my life walking around like a zombie. 260 00:17:04,516 --> 00:17:09,436 Speaker 1: I actually actively remember being in a board, mean eating 261 00:17:09,956 --> 00:17:12,716 Speaker 1: and singing in the back of the room, a long 262 00:17:12,876 --> 00:17:18,236 Speaker 1: table and thinking if I go and crawl under the table, 263 00:17:18,876 --> 00:17:22,556 Speaker 1: will anybody notice? You know, that's how exhaust I was. 264 00:17:22,636 --> 00:17:25,036 Speaker 1: And another way I knew and you would know if 265 00:17:25,036 --> 00:17:27,596 Speaker 1: you're exhausted is the minute I would be in a 266 00:17:27,756 --> 00:17:31,516 Speaker 1: darkened auditorium, a movie and an opera house whatever, I 267 00:17:31,516 --> 00:17:34,996 Speaker 1: would be asleep, like literally it would take like a second, 268 00:17:35,436 --> 00:17:37,916 Speaker 1: and that's not normal. So, Arianna, what are some of 269 00:17:37,916 --> 00:17:40,436 Speaker 1: the chips that you've used to improve your sleep over time? 270 00:17:41,196 --> 00:17:44,916 Speaker 1: One of the tools that I would love to sort 271 00:17:44,956 --> 00:17:49,396 Speaker 1: of share with everyone here is a transition to sleep. 272 00:17:50,116 --> 00:17:53,716 Speaker 1: Anybody here who is a parent knows that you have 273 00:17:53,836 --> 00:17:57,636 Speaker 1: a transition to sleep with your baby. You know you 274 00:17:58,116 --> 00:18:03,356 Speaker 1: sing it a lalla by give it a bath. My 275 00:18:03,516 --> 00:18:06,836 Speaker 1: transition to sleep is thirty minutes, but you know, start 276 00:18:06,876 --> 00:18:12,116 Speaker 1: with five. My transition is I always have a hot bath. 277 00:18:12,876 --> 00:18:16,556 Speaker 1: I love baths. If you don't like baths, have a 278 00:18:16,596 --> 00:18:21,516 Speaker 1: hot shower. The point is not cleanliness, it's a ritual. 279 00:18:21,916 --> 00:18:26,596 Speaker 1: It's almost like washing the day away, kind of imagining 280 00:18:26,836 --> 00:18:29,596 Speaker 1: the day being washed away with all the good and 281 00:18:29,676 --> 00:18:35,516 Speaker 1: the bad. And now you are getting ready for sleep, 282 00:18:35,716 --> 00:18:40,516 Speaker 1: the time to completely surrender and recharge. And then I 283 00:18:40,596 --> 00:18:46,076 Speaker 1: actually love to rekindle the romance with sleep. So I 284 00:18:46,196 --> 00:18:53,036 Speaker 1: love beautiful lingerie. If you don't like beautiful lingerie, you 285 00:18:53,076 --> 00:18:56,036 Speaker 1: can wear a T shirt or nothing. But if you 286 00:18:56,156 --> 00:18:58,636 Speaker 1: wear a T shirt, do not wear the same T 287 00:18:58,756 --> 00:19:00,676 Speaker 1: shirt that you're going to wear to the gym the 288 00:19:00,756 --> 00:19:04,836 Speaker 1: next day, because your body gets confusing messages are we 289 00:19:04,916 --> 00:19:07,516 Speaker 1: going to the gym or are we going to sleep? 290 00:19:09,676 --> 00:19:12,956 Speaker 1: So I have dedicated T shirts for sleep. Whatever it is, 291 00:19:13,036 --> 00:19:17,556 Speaker 1: dedicated sleep well. And then once I get into bed, 292 00:19:17,996 --> 00:19:24,116 Speaker 1: absolutely zero screens. I only read real books, and I 293 00:19:24,196 --> 00:19:27,516 Speaker 1: read books that have nothing to do with work. I 294 00:19:27,636 --> 00:19:33,396 Speaker 1: read novels, I read spiritual books, I read poetry, anything 295 00:19:33,476 --> 00:19:36,716 Speaker 1: that helps me disconnect for my day, and I end 296 00:19:36,836 --> 00:19:40,556 Speaker 1: my day with three things I'm grateful for. One of 297 00:19:40,556 --> 00:19:42,516 Speaker 1: my favorite tips that you give in your book, though, 298 00:19:42,756 --> 00:19:45,156 Speaker 1: and maybe the hardest tip I think for busy people, 299 00:19:45,436 --> 00:19:48,436 Speaker 1: is this idea that if you're experiencing sleep deprivation, that 300 00:19:48,556 --> 00:19:52,516 Speaker 1: might not be the only problem, Like your sleep deprivation 301 00:19:52,676 --> 00:19:55,476 Speaker 1: might be assigned that there are other issues that you're 302 00:19:55,556 --> 00:19:59,996 Speaker 1: not addressing. Absolutely. I mean it's like taking an inventory 303 00:20:00,116 --> 00:20:04,476 Speaker 1: of your day and seeing what can you cut, and 304 00:20:04,596 --> 00:20:08,236 Speaker 1: often it's things that are joyful and enjoyable, like watching 305 00:20:08,236 --> 00:20:11,636 Speaker 1: a show you like or having a dinner with friends. 306 00:20:12,516 --> 00:20:16,156 Speaker 1: It's like something has to give, and there are times 307 00:20:16,236 --> 00:20:19,276 Speaker 1: when you know what it will be nice to go 308 00:20:19,396 --> 00:20:21,436 Speaker 1: to dinner with friends, but I'm just going to have 309 00:20:21,476 --> 00:20:26,436 Speaker 1: a hot bath and catch up on my sleep. And 310 00:20:26,476 --> 00:20:32,676 Speaker 1: the more responsibilities you have a job, starting a business, children, 311 00:20:33,516 --> 00:20:39,516 Speaker 1: the more imperative it is to be pretty relentless about 312 00:20:39,756 --> 00:20:44,476 Speaker 1: what you are going to say no to. You cannot 313 00:20:44,516 --> 00:20:47,556 Speaker 1: say yes to sleep without saying no to other things, 314 00:20:48,676 --> 00:20:53,836 Speaker 1: and again, start small. You want to start with getting 315 00:20:53,916 --> 00:20:57,116 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes more, you know, don't say I'm going to 316 00:20:57,196 --> 00:21:01,596 Speaker 1: go to eight hours or seven hours. Just start very small. 317 00:21:01,676 --> 00:21:06,116 Speaker 1: So you build that muscle, you begin to have more energy, 318 00:21:06,716 --> 00:21:09,236 Speaker 1: you begin to see the impact it has, and that 319 00:21:09,356 --> 00:21:13,116 Speaker 1: the impact it has, it becomes like a magnet. So 320 00:21:13,156 --> 00:21:15,876 Speaker 1: I work a lot with college students and many of them, 321 00:21:15,956 --> 00:21:18,276 Speaker 1: many of them will ask me, why can't I just 322 00:21:18,356 --> 00:21:21,516 Speaker 1: not sleep now so I can sleep later once I'm successful? 323 00:21:21,556 --> 00:21:23,156 Speaker 1: Like you, you know, what would you say to the 324 00:21:23,396 --> 00:21:25,516 Speaker 1: college student who wants to do the grind right now 325 00:21:25,756 --> 00:21:28,636 Speaker 1: and things they might prioritize sleep later. Well, thank you 326 00:21:28,676 --> 00:21:32,436 Speaker 1: so much for asking that question, because it is based 327 00:21:32,716 --> 00:21:40,716 Speaker 1: on a misconception about what leads to the greatest performance. So, 328 00:21:40,756 --> 00:21:44,396 Speaker 1: if you are an entrepreneur, you are building a business, 329 00:21:44,596 --> 00:21:47,956 Speaker 1: you want to show up the best version of yourself. 330 00:21:48,156 --> 00:21:52,516 Speaker 1: Your business depends on the quality of your decisions. It 331 00:21:52,556 --> 00:21:56,036 Speaker 1: doesn't depend on how many hours you are at your desk. 332 00:21:56,636 --> 00:22:02,436 Speaker 1: And more than three quarters of startups fail. And somebody 333 00:22:02,476 --> 00:22:07,036 Speaker 1: should do a study on the correlation between sleep deprived, 334 00:22:07,196 --> 00:22:11,476 Speaker 1: exhausted entrepreneurs and the decisions they make that lead to 335 00:22:11,516 --> 00:22:15,956 Speaker 1: the collapse of the companies. So there is no trade 336 00:22:16,036 --> 00:22:21,356 Speaker 1: off between sleep and prioritizing our well being and our performance. 337 00:22:21,436 --> 00:22:26,116 Speaker 1: On the contrary, the two things are completely interconnected. So 338 00:22:26,596 --> 00:22:29,596 Speaker 1: we need to take sleep and well being out of 339 00:22:29,596 --> 00:22:33,396 Speaker 1: the realm of nice to have later in life and 340 00:22:33,476 --> 00:22:39,276 Speaker 1: recognize its integral to succeeding right now. When Jeff Bezos 341 00:22:39,596 --> 00:22:43,836 Speaker 1: wrote on Thrive that he sleeps for eight hours because 342 00:22:43,836 --> 00:22:48,996 Speaker 1: it improves his decision making, it went crazy viral. I mean, 343 00:22:49,036 --> 00:22:53,436 Speaker 1: there are many more very successful people who get enough sleep, 344 00:22:54,036 --> 00:22:57,596 Speaker 1: and I know that because they confess to me. But 345 00:22:57,716 --> 00:23:00,516 Speaker 1: I remember when at a dinner Jeff Bezos said that 346 00:23:00,596 --> 00:23:02,516 Speaker 1: to me, and I said to him, you must write 347 00:23:02,556 --> 00:23:04,556 Speaker 1: about it. I think it will help so many people. 348 00:23:04,596 --> 00:23:07,276 Speaker 1: He said, I'm a private man, I don't write about it. 349 00:23:07,716 --> 00:23:12,876 Speaker 1: But I harassed him until he wrote about it, and 350 00:23:12,916 --> 00:23:16,236 Speaker 1: then he actually loved it because it has such an impact. 351 00:23:16,676 --> 00:23:19,996 Speaker 1: And that is what it's so interesting too, encouraging people 352 00:23:20,036 --> 00:23:25,316 Speaker 1: to come out as good sleepers. I mean, this is 353 00:23:25,316 --> 00:23:27,076 Speaker 1: the exciting thing. And kind of where I want to 354 00:23:27,196 --> 00:23:29,876 Speaker 1: end is this question of are you optimistic? I mean, 355 00:23:29,916 --> 00:23:32,436 Speaker 1: in your book you presented I think what shows that 356 00:23:32,516 --> 00:23:35,316 Speaker 1: there's a real crisis here. But I think since your book, 357 00:23:35,356 --> 00:23:37,636 Speaker 1: you have Jeff Bezos coming out as an eight hour 358 00:23:37,676 --> 00:23:40,556 Speaker 1: a day sleeper, and so many people in this room 359 00:23:40,596 --> 00:23:43,796 Speaker 1: who are excited to talk about sleep. Are you optimistic 360 00:23:43,836 --> 00:23:46,756 Speaker 1: that things are changing even though the culture isn't perfect. 361 00:23:48,276 --> 00:23:53,196 Speaker 1: I am extremely optimistic. I am optimistic for many reasons. 362 00:23:54,116 --> 00:24:00,116 Speaker 1: I'm optimistic, first of all, because for many years who 363 00:24:00,116 --> 00:24:06,276 Speaker 1: have really neglected this conversation, your cause was pretty instrumental 364 00:24:06,596 --> 00:24:11,756 Speaker 1: in bringing that conversation back to the mainstream. And I 365 00:24:11,796 --> 00:24:15,236 Speaker 1: feel like in any transition, you know, from the Dark 366 00:24:15,276 --> 00:24:21,196 Speaker 1: Ages to the Renaissance, you are going to have multiple 367 00:24:21,636 --> 00:24:24,756 Speaker 1: behaviors coexisting. So I'm sure you can have tons of 368 00:24:24,796 --> 00:24:29,876 Speaker 1: examples from executives who are still bragging about how little 369 00:24:29,916 --> 00:24:32,876 Speaker 1: sleep they got because they didn't get the memo. But 370 00:24:33,076 --> 00:24:37,476 Speaker 1: you know, it's changing, and I think now there is 371 00:24:37,516 --> 00:24:41,436 Speaker 1: a different listening. Like if you told your boss something 372 00:24:41,476 --> 00:24:45,236 Speaker 1: about sleep, it wouldn't be seen as something eliant because 373 00:24:45,836 --> 00:24:51,196 Speaker 1: the Wallstreet Journal very regularly cover sleep, and so does 374 00:24:51,196 --> 00:24:55,596 Speaker 1: the Harvard Business Review, and my kids didn't entire study 375 00:24:55,716 --> 00:24:58,356 Speaker 1: about the role of sleep in leadership, And when I 376 00:24:58,396 --> 00:25:02,076 Speaker 1: first read it, I honestly thought it was an onion headline, 377 00:25:03,236 --> 00:25:07,276 Speaker 1: you know, because it was like my Kinsey is actually 378 00:25:07,396 --> 00:25:12,596 Speaker 1: recommending our sleep for leaders. But that's a sign of 379 00:25:12,676 --> 00:25:17,636 Speaker 1: the times. But we can also learn from the animal kingdom. 380 00:25:17,636 --> 00:25:20,916 Speaker 1: I know you've studied animals also as well as human beings, 381 00:25:21,436 --> 00:25:25,916 Speaker 1: and my favorite sleep animal is the cheetah. The cheetah 382 00:25:25,916 --> 00:25:32,036 Speaker 1: sleeps for eighteen hours and then she can accelerate going 383 00:25:32,236 --> 00:25:36,396 Speaker 1: from zero to sixty miles in one minute. I don't 384 00:25:36,436 --> 00:25:40,316 Speaker 1: recommend sleeping for eighteen hours, but it's almost like a 385 00:25:40,356 --> 00:25:46,276 Speaker 1: metaphor that the fastest animal in existence sleeps for eighteen hours. 386 00:25:47,156 --> 00:25:51,476 Speaker 1: So you could say, like the most amazing, productive and 387 00:25:51,636 --> 00:25:56,436 Speaker 1: temperaneure or business leader is somebody who shows up fully recharged. 388 00:25:57,276 --> 00:26:01,076 Speaker 1: And that's why I'm optimistic, fantastic. Well, I think of 389 00:26:01,116 --> 00:26:04,156 Speaker 1: all the people who are starting this important conversation, I 390 00:26:04,196 --> 00:26:06,196 Speaker 1: have a lot of gratitude for you for doing it 391 00:26:06,316 --> 00:26:09,316 Speaker 1: so well and so eloquently, and so I want to 392 00:26:09,396 --> 00:26:11,796 Speaker 1: end with giving a huge thank you to Arianna for 393 00:26:11,836 --> 00:26:14,116 Speaker 1: all the amazing work she's doing and for sharing that 394 00:26:14,196 --> 00:26:16,716 Speaker 1: work with this audience and all the folks who are 395 00:26:16,716 --> 00:26:18,476 Speaker 1: listening on the podcast. Let's give a big round of 396 00:26:18,516 --> 00:26:32,516 Speaker 1: applause to Arianna. So, Happiness Lab listeners, I hope we've 397 00:26:32,516 --> 00:26:35,756 Speaker 1: convinced you to choose sleep, Cancel something you were planning 398 00:26:35,756 --> 00:26:38,876 Speaker 1: to do tonight, and devote that time to not being awake. 399 00:26:39,476 --> 00:26:42,636 Speaker 1: It'll pay back dividends. You'll be fresher to tackle the 400 00:26:42,716 --> 00:26:45,596 Speaker 1: tasks in your waking life tomorrow, and you'll be happier. 401 00:26:47,796 --> 00:26:50,156 Speaker 1: That's all for this New Year mini season. I hope 402 00:26:50,156 --> 00:26:52,836 Speaker 1: it's been a helpful start to your new decade. It 403 00:26:52,876 --> 00:26:54,396 Speaker 1: would be great if you could rate and review the 404 00:26:54,396 --> 00:26:56,996 Speaker 1: show and spread the word to anyone you know who 405 00:26:57,116 --> 00:26:59,596 Speaker 1: might like a few happiness tips. I'll be back with 406 00:26:59,636 --> 00:27:01,476 Speaker 1: a new season of The Happiness Lab at the end 407 00:27:01,516 --> 00:27:05,196 Speaker 1: of April. We have some great stories and fantastic guests, 408 00:27:05,236 --> 00:27:07,476 Speaker 1: as well as the latest science on how to be happier. 409 00:27:08,076 --> 00:27:25,996 Speaker 1: Until then, more can I say except sleep. The Happiness 410 00:27:26,036 --> 00:27:28,556 Speaker 1: Lab is co written and produced by Ryan Dilley. The 411 00:27:28,636 --> 00:27:31,756 Speaker 1: show was mastered by Evan Beola and our original music 412 00:27:31,876 --> 00:27:35,796 Speaker 1: was composed by Zachary Silver. Special thanks to Ben Davis, 413 00:27:35,996 --> 00:27:40,436 Speaker 1: Neil La Belle, Julia Barton, Carli Nigliori, Heather Faane, Maggie Taylor, 414 00:27:40,716 --> 00:27:44,156 Speaker 1: Maya Kanig, and Jacob Weisberg. The Happiness Lab is brought 415 00:27:44,156 --> 00:27:48,316 Speaker 1: to you by Pushkin Industries.