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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: its affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we talk

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. It's Thursday, June twelfth. It's

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Speaker 2: actually our last show of the week. We'll be back

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Speaker 2: here on Sunday, Don't forget, and we have a stacked

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Speaker 2: night of headlines. Closing arguments are set to begin for

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Speaker 2: the retrial of Karen Reid that could kick in as

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Speaker 2: soon as tomorrow. Also, we have a very special guest,

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Speaker 2: Matthew Russell Lee is here. He's been reporting from the

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Speaker 2: Diddy trial in the courtroom, so he's going to give

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Speaker 2: us all of the details. Plus, a verdict was reached

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Speaker 2: in the Doomsday Mom trial. What is happening there? The

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Speaker 2: jury decided in record time. And also another mistrial for

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Speaker 2: Harvey Weinstein. What is next for him? I'm Stephanie and

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Speaker 2: I head u KT Studios where we make true crime

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Speaker 2: podcasts and documentaries and I get to do that every

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Speaker 2: day with Courtney Armstrong, producer and host and body move

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Speaker 2: In crime analyst and host and look, the world has

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Speaker 2: gone nuts, but we are grateful to be here today

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Speaker 2: and I hope you all are safe and happy, and

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Speaker 2: we want you to come in and join the conversation.

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Speaker 2: So please call us at eight eight eight three one Crime,

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Speaker 2: or you could always call us on our socials at

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Speaker 2: True Crime Tonight's show on TikTok and Instagram, or at

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Speaker 2: True Crime Tonight on Facebook. So, Karen Reid, there's a mistrial.

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Speaker 2: What do you think is going to happen in the

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Speaker 2: coming days? I mean, we really are at a place

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Speaker 2: now where the jury is not in the building today,

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Speaker 2: so they got a break, and the judge has made

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Speaker 2: the decision that we are moving on and closing arguments

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Speaker 2: will begin each side. We'll have about seventy five minutes

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Speaker 2: and after that, Karen Reid's fate is in everybody's hands.

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Speaker 2: If you haven't been following this case, as a reminder,

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Speaker 2: Karen Reid has been on trial, her retrial, so her

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Speaker 2: second trial in the death of her boyfriend John O'Keefe.

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Speaker 2: He was hit allegedly by her car. That's what she's

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Speaker 2: been charged with. And there seemed to be really mixed

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Speaker 2: feelings around all of it, and it's a really divisive case.

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Speaker 2: So Courtney, you know, what, do you think what's going

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Speaker 2: to happen next?

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Speaker 3: Man, it's gonna be interesting. Judge Cononi originally said at

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Speaker 3: the beginning of the trial that if the attorneys presented

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Speaker 3: enough evidence on the defense side during trial, that they

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Speaker 3: could name Brian Higgins and Brian Albert as alternate suspects

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Speaker 3: in their closing arguments.

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Speaker 2: Which is pretty major.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, so that was up to the defense to

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Speaker 3: again present enough but she ruled today that indeed the

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Speaker 3: defense did not present enough evidence to do that, so

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Speaker 3: jurors will not hear the alternative suspect theory in closing statements.

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Speaker 3: I feel like that's a big blow to defense pulpability.

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Speaker 3: The level of like the bar is so much higher

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Speaker 3: to like openly accuse somebody else in open court, Like

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Speaker 3: you can't. You can't just do that, right, Like, that's

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Speaker 3: what I hate to do this, but that's what they're

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Speaker 3: trying to do with Brian Coberger in this alternate suspect.

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Speaker 2: Right, the level of the bar is high, to the

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Speaker 2: bar is high because it changes everything, Right, It's like

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Speaker 2: it's not me, it's him, you know. It seems like

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Speaker 2: it's right out of a movie, you know. I guess

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Speaker 2: my larger question would be, if there are alternate suspects,

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Speaker 2: is that something that could be a next step. Should

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Speaker 2: she get a hung jury or I mean.

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Speaker 4: If she gets acquitted, the commonwealth is really going to

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Speaker 4: be stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either

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Speaker 4: they're going to have to admit that they made a

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Speaker 4: mistake and even trying Karen read to begin with, because

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Speaker 4: it was really this person right, which is unlikely for

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Speaker 4: them to do right right, It's very unlikely for them

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Speaker 4: to admit that, or they retry her again. Well, if

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Speaker 4: she gets acquitted, they're not going to be able to

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Speaker 4: do that. But if there's a hung jury and a

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Speaker 4: mistrial is the result, then they're going to be really

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Speaker 4: stuck with a hard decision.

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Speaker 2: Or she is found guilt, you know, or the the

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Speaker 2: lawyers today had a conference about sentencing, right, So that's

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Speaker 2: a big piece of this. Can you imagine how stressed

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Speaker 2: she might be at this exact moment. You know, she

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Speaker 2: looked like a pretty cool cucumber leaving the courthouse yesterday.

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Speaker 2: She seemed pretty confident, said she was a little you know,

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Speaker 2: nervous and a little anxious, but that you know, she

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Speaker 2: felt as though she was defended well and maybe even

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Speaker 2: more so than the first trial. Can we just discuss

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Speaker 2: who was there so the alternate suspects. I feel like

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Speaker 2: this gets thrown around quite a bit, and it would

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Speaker 2: be helpful, kind of to talk through the backstory because

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Speaker 2: it's really it's also two other Canton police you know, authorities,

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Speaker 2: if you will, And I think that's the hardest part

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Speaker 2: of this. If there has been a cover up within

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Speaker 2: law enforcement, you know what a bummer because you know, listen,

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Speaker 2: if she gets off, whether she did it or not,

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Speaker 2: right regardless, if she gets off, it will be because

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Speaker 2: the work was so messy by law enforcement. And sometimes

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Speaker 2: the cover up is worse than the crime. Maybe they

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Speaker 2: had nothing to do with it, but they really wanted

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Speaker 2: to hammer it home for her and that ended up maybe,

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Speaker 2: you know, changing her fate altogether. You're looking very surprised

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Speaker 2: by this. Are you still feeling like guilty or not guilty?

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Speaker 2: I listen, I think she's guilty. I think she's guilty.

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Speaker 2: I think she actually hit him with her car, is

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Speaker 2: she I think so?

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Speaker 4: I technically think she's guilty, right, but I do I

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Speaker 4: do agree that the investigation was shoddy and that there

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Speaker 4: could be an acquittal coming.

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Speaker 2: I don't. I don't. I would not be surprised.

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Speaker 4: I don't. I don't really see a guilty verdict. If

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Speaker 4: there is one, I'll be like great, because I think

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Speaker 4: she's guilty. However, it's also scary that they were able

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Speaker 4: to convict her based on the presentation.

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Speaker 3: Well, I yeah, I feel like there has been enough

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Speaker 3: reasonable doubt. Yeah, I do too, and that that is

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Speaker 3: the standard. And I think this is interesting. So even

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Speaker 3: though you know, the defense can't say that there's an

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Speaker 3: alternate suspect, the judge did rule that the defense is

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Speaker 3: allowed to argue in their closing arguments tomorrow that police

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Speaker 3: were aware that Brian Higgins could have been a suspect

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Speaker 3: in O'Keefe's death, but did not act on the information.

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Speaker 2: So on the information, they didn't even search the house.

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Speaker 2: You know, I feel as though this was one of

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Speaker 2: those situations that there was a lot of law enforcement

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Speaker 2: there that should have handled this with care, and frankly,

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Speaker 2: they didn't. You know, even though it was their buddy,

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Speaker 2: this is the guy that they were hanging out with

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Speaker 2: all night that they love. That's not up for question

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Speaker 2: whether they're pinning it on her or not. Can you

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Speaker 2: imagine if you're not an affluent person who had the

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Speaker 2: resources to put a good legal team together to unfold

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Speaker 2: some of this, what does the regular joe do if

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Speaker 2: they're being well?

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Speaker 4: Was that Karen wasn't Karen Reid's defense money raised? Wasn't

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Speaker 4: it crowdsourced? It didn't come from like family, generational wealth

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Speaker 4: or anything?

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Speaker 5: Did it?

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Speaker 6: Or did it?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 2: No? I mean she's a working class you know, she's

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Speaker 2: a scholar of sorts too. You know she was working

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Speaker 2: as a professor. But you know, remember she's been on

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Speaker 2: trial for well over a year now. If you're looking

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Speaker 2: the time, how does she go to work? She can't.

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Speaker 2: There's nobody's earning a living. We forget that if family

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Speaker 2: members want to go and support their loved one in court,

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Speaker 2: they can't go to work that day, true, right, they

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Speaker 2: don't get paid. It's a real drag financially on your resources.

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Speaker 2: And the legal fees must be ginormous.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: I mean even in the Brian Coburger case, that's the

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Speaker 3: one where he's accused of murdering for University of Idaho students,

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Speaker 3: you know their families are raising money through go fundme

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Speaker 3: so they can just be at the trial.

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Speaker 2: The victims family's right.

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Speaker 4: The victims Brian Coburger is of course being defended by

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Speaker 4: Anne Taylor, public defender, so it's not costing the Coburger

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Speaker 4: family any money. But you know, if they want to

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Speaker 4: come to the trial, they're going to have to. And

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Speaker 4: I listen, I can't imagine that they're going to be

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Speaker 4: able to raise money. Eh maybe, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, you never know. Honestly, it's a way for people

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Speaker 2: to support what they believe in, right, and I think

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Speaker 2: that's everybody's right. But yeah, to your point, you know,

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Speaker 2: she has raised money, no question, But you know, I

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Speaker 2: have to imagine she's waiting on a book deal. Do

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Speaker 2: you think if she had shown more emotion in court?

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Speaker 2: You know, listen, this was her boyfriend. You know, they

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Speaker 2: met in high school. They go way back. You know,

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Speaker 2: they seemed very affectionate with one another. Lots of reports

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Speaker 2: say they had a very toxic relationship. Others say the opposite.

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Speaker 2: You know, we've seen surveillance footage in the night of

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Speaker 2: and you know, John o'keef seemed rather loving with her.

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Speaker 2: You know, it didn't seem like they were in some

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Speaker 2: real big fight. Or something like that. Of course, you

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Speaker 2: never know what goes on behind closed doors, But do

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Speaker 2: you think if she was a little bit more, if

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Speaker 2: she weep, wept more often, or she was crying on

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Speaker 2: the stand because she missed her boyfriend. I feel like

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Speaker 2: the lack of that has really turned people off. And listen,

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Speaker 2: you got to be genuine and authentic in the moment,

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Speaker 2: but that thick skin or rough exterior has also been

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Speaker 2: so divisive.

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Speaker 3: I think it was exacerbated by people who already found

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Speaker 3: her to be repugnant and who found her to be,

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Speaker 3: you know, guilty before the trial or during the trial.

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Speaker 3: So I think it's kind of one of those things

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Speaker 3: that's supports whatever your belief is, whereas if you're at

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Speaker 3: free Karen read as many people are with their signs,

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Speaker 3: then it's seen as stoic. So but actually we should

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Speaker 3: talk a little bit about Karen Reid because as a person,

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Speaker 3: I don't feel like that gets talked about much. She's

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Speaker 3: born and raised in Massachusetts, and her dad was an

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Speaker 3: accounting professor at Bentley University and pretty normal.

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Speaker 2: There as well. Yeah, yeah, and she.

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Speaker 3: Has a master's from Bentley as well, and was a

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Speaker 3: financial analyst at fidelity investments. As you had mentioned, Stephanie

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Speaker 3: also just on a personal level in terms of things

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Speaker 3: she has been through that some people really relate to

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Speaker 3: and sympathize with. She has crone disease and in a

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Speaker 3: year and a half had to undergo ten surgeries to

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Speaker 3: treat it.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you have to have some serious staminas

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Speaker 2: to hold up even during a trial of this level

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Speaker 2: for as long as she has, you know, right or wrong, guilty,

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Speaker 2: not guilty anybody who hasn't been that system for so long.

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Speaker 4: She's also out, like she's not in jail, like a

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Speaker 4: lot of people are, right that don't have the opportunity

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Speaker 4: that she does.

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Speaker 2: That's fair, That's such a good point. I guess that's

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Speaker 2: why this case kind of gets under all of our

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Speaker 2: skins so much, right, because we're watching this play out

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Speaker 2: and then you think, my god, what happened to me?

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Speaker 2: I'd be a dead man, wouldn't be able to afford

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Speaker 2: to get out, of course, and that would be the

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Speaker 2: case for most people. So all the while agreed, Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Wow for a billion crowdsourced right, So I mean she really,

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Speaker 4: I mean, let's face it, Turtle Boy is one of

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Speaker 4: the main reasons she's even able to defend herself at all.

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Speaker 4: I think he started ringing the alarm bells for her

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Speaker 4: and started crowdfunding for her, you know, and Boy, for.

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Speaker 2: Those who don't know who that is is, you know,

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Speaker 2: it has an online presence and really started following this

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Speaker 2: case very early on in the process before it has

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Speaker 2: caught all this attention, and really his belief has really

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Speaker 2: cracked open this whole case. And again, even that's kind

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Speaker 2: of divisive because other people say, like, Turtle Boy, get

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Speaker 2: in your lane. You're not a cop, you're not an investigator,

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Speaker 2: you're not a detective, and you're actually riling everybody up

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Speaker 2: and getting in the way of justice.

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Speaker 4: And not only that, but he was actually indicted for

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Speaker 4: wasn't he indicted for witness intimidation of some of the

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Speaker 4: witnesses involved in this case? Correct, so's he's become part

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Speaker 4: of the case, right, instead of just kind of reporting

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Speaker 4: on it, he's now part of it, which is interesting.

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Speaker 4: But my point in bringing him up wasn't to disparate

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Speaker 4: him or anything like that. It was more of like

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Speaker 4: Karen reach tould be very grateful to Turtle Boy for,

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Speaker 4: you know, ringing the alarm bells about this case and

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Speaker 4: having all this money now at her disposal, and you know,

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Speaker 4: again she's not sitting in jail like Brian Coberger is right,

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Speaker 4: that's true.

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Speaker 2: She's out well buying Voxa at Costco Fair. But she

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Speaker 2: is also not accused of mass murdering. No, she's with

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Speaker 2: a knife in the middle of the night and is

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Speaker 2: like not it whether he is or isn't guilty, it

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Speaker 2: is a different crime but equally horrible, and our hearts

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Speaker 2: are with you know, John O'Keefe's family.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we're going to continue to follow this because listen,

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Speaker 4: we're getting a little heated here. Join the conversation, let

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Speaker 4: us know what's going on. Call us an eight eight

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Speaker 4: eight thirty one crime or use the talkbacks on the

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Speaker 4: iHeartRadio app. Coming up, we're going to be joined by

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Speaker 4: Matthew Russell Lee. He's a journalist who's been reporting from

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Speaker 4: inside the courtroom at the deity trial. We cannot wait

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Speaker 4: to talk to him. We are so excited. And later,

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Speaker 4: a verdict was reached today in Lolori Valo dab Bell trial.

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Speaker 2: What was it? We're going to talk about it. Keep

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Speaker 2: it here true time tonight, Courtney, Let's discuss did he

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Speaker 2: did he all the things?

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Speaker 6: All the things? All right?

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Speaker 7: Did he did?

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Speaker 2: Did he? Yes?

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Speaker 6: He did? Yes, he did.

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Speaker 3: So Finally, after six days, victim who's going by Jane,

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Speaker 3: she finally wrapped her testimony today and it's been really emotional.

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Speaker 3: She has been on the stand and she has been

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Speaker 3: very critical excuse me, yeah, very critical in helping prove

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Speaker 3: the federal sex trafficking and the racketeering charges against the

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Speaker 3: former music mogul. So even though it was long and emotional,

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Speaker 3: hopefully it did some really good movement for the prosecution.

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Speaker 3: For anyone unfamiliar, Puff Daddy has been alleged to for

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Speaker 3: twenty years, from twenty four to twenty twenty four, to

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Speaker 3: be involved in a criminal enterprise involving kidnapping, arson, bribery,

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Speaker 3: and sex trafficking. He's facing life in prison, but has

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Speaker 3: pled guilty. Who has pled not guilty? Guilty, not guilty

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Speaker 3: to all the charges. And right now we are joined

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Speaker 3: by a very special guest. We're so excited to speak

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Speaker 3: with Matthew Russell lee Back. Since twenty eighteen, Matthew has

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Speaker 3: report in person on cases in the US District Court

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Speaker 3: for the Southern District of New York and that's on

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Speaker 3: innercitypress dot com. His work can also be found in threads, vlogs, books,

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Speaker 3: and podcasts. He has had a front row seat to

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Speaker 3: all things Diddy and Matthew. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 3: joining us, Hi.

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Speaker 5: Matthew, Sure sure, thanks a lot.

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Speaker 7: I'm glad to be here. I was just listening to

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Speaker 7: her for its introductions. True, it's true, but of course

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Speaker 7: there's more to it. But well, I'll wait to tell you.

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Speaker 7: It was a long six days with James.

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Speaker 2: We cannot wait to hear you know, it's funny. Can

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Speaker 2: I just jump in first? First of all, we're so

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Speaker 2: happy you're here because, you know, talking about it, reporting

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Speaker 2: about it, unpacking it is one thing, but being in

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Speaker 2: the beehive in the courtroom is a whole other set

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Speaker 2: of circumstances. And I can only imagine tension filled the

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Speaker 2: Jane Doe testimony that's been going on for the last days.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty harrowing stuff. Am I losing my mind that

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Speaker 2: I'm almost feeling a little desensitized to some of it?

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Speaker 2: You know, when we first heard about a freak off

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Speaker 2: and what that meant, then it was my brain exploded.

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Speaker 2: And now I feel like, are we all getting a

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Speaker 2: little desensitized to it because it's gone on for so long.

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Speaker 2: Or is that an advantage point and we're really emotionally

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Speaker 2: attaching ourselves to the witnesses.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean I think that that. I think personally,

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Speaker 7: I think that that Cassie was much was a stronger

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Speaker 7: witness or less a clearer witness for the for the

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Speaker 7: jury having just I mean, I don't know if it

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Speaker 7: comes off a side I think I mean, and it's different.

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Speaker 7: It's absolutely terrible. What happened to Jane is also a pseudonym, right,

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Speaker 7: so it's not a real mine.

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Speaker 5: So it began.

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Speaker 7: The first thing to be said is that there's been

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Speaker 7: this strange split between what can be reported and what

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Speaker 7: other people, let's say, outside of the courtroom, particularly like

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Speaker 7: the hip hop press, like people know who she is.

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Speaker 7: I'm pretty sure I know who she is. I totally

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Speaker 7: respect the idea of, like, you know, victims using a pseudonym.

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Speaker 7: It does become difficult when and I covered the like

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Speaker 7: not the Glenne Maxwell trial as well, and there there

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Speaker 7: were manyvictims, most of them are not very well known people,

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Speaker 7: and so it made it was much simpler to just

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Speaker 7: say victim one, victim two, victim three.

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Speaker 5: Here they introduced Jane.

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Speaker 7: I mean, but the direct examination said, you know, what

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Speaker 7: did you say to Diddy when you first met him

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Speaker 7: in Miami? And she said, I've dated a close friend

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Speaker 7: of yours and the father of my child is a

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Speaker 7: major rival of yours. Well, obviously this set the hip

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Speaker 7: hop world, and even today there was testimony about another

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Speaker 7: quote wrap icon that was having his own freak off,

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Speaker 7: a separate freak off, a totally different in a parallel world,

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Speaker 7: but very similar in fact, with the same male entertainer

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Speaker 7: as they're calling them in Las Vegas that she went to.

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Speaker 7: And this mad made Ditty or Sean Combs very jealous

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Speaker 7: and in fact led to the violent incident with which

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Speaker 7: both the direct and the cross ended. But the thing

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Speaker 7: is that I guess it's because I sort of straddled

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Speaker 7: to I cover. Also, you know music trials here, crypto trials.

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Speaker 5: And so people.

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Speaker 7: You know, I think many people in the world of

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Speaker 7: hip hop know who both of these individuals are, but

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Speaker 7: we who are here are not supposed to report it.

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Speaker 7: And again I respect that, but it does when the

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Speaker 7: tension in the courtroom is not just between the witnesses

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Speaker 7: and Shawn Combe there's a tension of I report live

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Speaker 7: like I'm tweeting it out, I'm putting it on as

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Speaker 7: you said, threads a blue sky X. And so when

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Speaker 7: something is reported in court, I feel like it's been

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Speaker 7: admitted into evidence right now can be reported. But there

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Speaker 7: was one instance here where the defense made a mistake

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Speaker 7: where Mia was another of the of the anonymous witness

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Speaker 7: victims that had worked just as an employee and had

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Speaker 7: been actually just not so much a freak off, just

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Speaker 7: straight up raped and assaulted by Shron Combs. According to

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Speaker 7: her testimony, there was a big fight about whether they

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Speaker 7: could show a video she'd.

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Speaker 5: Recorded wishing Comb's a happy birthday.

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Speaker 7: It was a very gushing video, and I think the

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Speaker 7: defense thought it would show that she wasn't as traumatized

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Speaker 7: as she said she was on the stand. But after

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Speaker 7: all this back and forth, we didn't really get to

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Speaker 7: see the arguments. They showed the video with her face

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Speaker 7: on it.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 7: So it seemed to me in the courtroom that you

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Speaker 7: now that that the cat is out of the bag,

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Speaker 7: you're no longer trying to blur her face. But as

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Speaker 7: it turned out, that was a mistake, you see.

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Speaker 6: What I mean.

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Speaker 5: So you're having to sort of check yourself.

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Speaker 7: I'm sorry to go on. I just wanted to know,

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Speaker 7: like the tension is, the tension is is. I'm not

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Speaker 7: I'm not crying. It's very fun to report on. But

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Speaker 7: it's a unique case, and I think it's I've even

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Speaker 7: covered other cases with anonymous victims, but this is the

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Speaker 7: only one I've covered where it's kind of it's an

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Speaker 7: open secret who the person is, and so you have

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Speaker 7: a kind of I would say it creates almost a

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Speaker 7: credibility bit gap throughout the media that's here because we

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Speaker 7: want to respect the order, and also the judges made

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Speaker 7: it clear he could throw you out of the courtroom

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Speaker 7: if you violate his order.

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Speaker 2: Well, you don't want to. You don't want to get

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Speaker 2: thrown out, right, Yeah?

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Speaker 7: Absolutely, I mean and not just self servingly. I mean you, yeah,

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Speaker 7: I'm reporting it. I don't want to actually personally. I

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Speaker 7: sort of pushed back against that because I think I

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Speaker 7: don't I think that that does chill reporting the defense

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Speaker 7: in this case, which you know, obviously they have a

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Speaker 7: very hard hand to play, you know, and they're getting

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Speaker 7: well paid. He has about ten lawyers and he's brought

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Speaker 7: in he has you know, some very well known SDNY

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Speaker 7: Southern District lawyers, and he brought in two lawyers from

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Speaker 7: Atlanta fresh from a seeming victory and a hip hop

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Speaker 7: case there called the Young Young Thug Thug trial there.

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Speaker 7: So they're sort of like up and coming defense lawyers.

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Speaker 7: And he has this enormous team, but you know, it's

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Speaker 7: still that he's fighting the government. They're putting on witnesses,

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Speaker 7: they can offer immunity to people to testify, and they have,

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Speaker 7: they said, which they have absolut absolutely one hundred percent.

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Speaker 7: I think that the several of them were subpoenaed and

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Speaker 7: had to be you know, take the Fifth Amendment outside

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Speaker 7: the presence of the jury. Jane herself testified to the

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Speaker 7: grand jury, so she was given immunity, you know, some

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Speaker 7: time ago. Wow, I'm going to I don't want to

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Speaker 7: get too much into the procedural. That's that part I

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Speaker 7: find interesting. I cover enough trials that this trial is

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Speaker 7: unique not only in the sort of gruesomeness of the

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Speaker 7: freak off testimony, but also in this sort of strange

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Speaker 7: anonymity of something that's that can't really be anonymous that

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Speaker 7: I guess it can.

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Speaker 5: And I'm not sure what.

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Speaker 2: The people I know it, And if you don't know

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Speaker 2: who we're talking about, you just got to google it,

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Speaker 2: and you know, and I don't want to perpetuate it.

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Speaker 4: We are so lucky to be talking to Matthew Russell

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Speaker 4: Lee who's been reporting on and attending the Diddy trial,

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Speaker 4: and we want to hear from you. Give us a

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Speaker 4: call at eight eight eight thirty one crime or hit

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Speaker 4: us up on the talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app. And

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Speaker 4: speaking of we have a caller right now, caller right, CJ.

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Speaker 6: Are you there?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm rid here, Hi, CJ.

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Speaker 2: Good, how are you well?

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Speaker 8: First of all, I just wanted to let Matthew know

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Speaker 8: that I have almost respect for his reporting. I follow

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Speaker 8: him on X and everything and everything that he's doing

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Speaker 8: from inside the courtroom, and I know that there's already,

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Speaker 8: you know, tension going on that he spoke about. But

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Speaker 8: I was wondering if there was any update on the

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Speaker 8: judge putting things into the docket and whether or not, Matthew,

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Speaker 8: are you considering possibly putting in another motion to make

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Speaker 8: sure that this is what's happening, because it seems from

435
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,760
Speaker 8: your latest tweets it seems like there's still stuff that

436
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 8: the judge is not putting into the docket. Can you

437
00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 8: give us more information on it?

438
00:20:58,960 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 2: Great question?

439
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,880
Speaker 5: Oh, thanks to your right, that's right down my alley.

440
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:03,680
Speaker 7: Or I mean I did early in the first week

441
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 7: of the case because nothing you know. Normally in covering

442
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,159
Speaker 7: a trial here, you know, lawyers will often put in

443
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,439
Speaker 7: letters overnight and so you'll know what's going to be

444
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 7: addressed the next day in open court here, I think

445
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 7: and I think it's because of the two anonymous witness victims.

446
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:22,080
Speaker 7: Both sides have felt comfortable just emailing the judge and

447
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,160
Speaker 7: not the public can't really see what the arguments are today.

448
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,159
Speaker 7: They had a big argument inside the roping room, so

449
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 7: we don't One of the one of the arguments has

450
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:30,920
Speaker 7: to do with the juror that the government is trying

451
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,200
Speaker 7: to exclude. And I have to say, as even being

452
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 7: here every single day, we don't know the grounds on

453
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 7: which they're trying to exclude them. And I'm not sure

454
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:39,680
Speaker 7: with that why that would make a lot of sense.

455
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,399
Speaker 7: I understand the principle that victims should be anonymous if

456
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,120
Speaker 7: they want. I think I think this is more it's

457
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 7: unless it's an issue that the that that the juror

458
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 7: after being impaneled on the jury it turns out was

459
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 7: a victim of sexual abuse, and is you know, worthy

460
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 7: of protection for that reason. If on the other hand,

461
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 7: as some here suspect, it's that the person didn't disclose

462
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,639
Speaker 7: that on social media. They support Diddy, for example, and

463
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,160
Speaker 7: there are Diddy supporters both in the front of the courthouse.

464
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 7: Some of them may or may not be paid. But

465
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 7: I get enough feedback over the transom from from doing

466
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,199
Speaker 7: these things on social media that there are a lot

467
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 7: of people want to call them ditty bots. But you know,

468
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,359
Speaker 7: it's like, what's It's a bit like what happened in

469
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:21,160
Speaker 7: the Johnny Johnny Depp amber. People see the case. I'm sorry,

470
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,880
Speaker 7: people see the case through the prism of their own,

471
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 7: you know, experience, And I think that's what's weird here

472
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 7: is because we're dealing with really what was presented in court.

473
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 7: I think, like in the abstract, I know that, like

474
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 7: I think, I think, you know, what, what did he

475
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 7: I don't know if anyone that wouldn't say the things

476
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 7: that Diddy has been shown to have done are terrible

477
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 7: and disgusting. The question becomes legally, are do they constitute racketeerings?

478
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 6: Right?

479
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 7: Right? You can be a terrible person without being a

480
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 7: mafia member. And in this case, they've used this law

481
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 7: that was meant to get at the mafia to try

482
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,200
Speaker 7: to say that his whole record company and Sean John

483
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 7: Clothing and Sarak Vodka that this was all kind of

484
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 7: a scheme to traffic women for having sex with mail

485
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,879
Speaker 7: entertainers to pleasure combs for whatever reason. And I'm pretty

486
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,440
Speaker 7: sure that that's not why the companies were created. I'm

487
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 7: pretty sure that they weren't used in some ways to

488
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 7: do that.

489
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:11,880
Speaker 5: But I'm also.

490
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,919
Speaker 7: Pretty sure that like most small business, it wasn't a

491
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 7: small business, but it was a totally like one man

492
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,439
Speaker 7: business owned by one man. There's a lot of blurring

493
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 7: between the personal. It's just to hear the personal is

494
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 7: totally nasty excuse, you know what I mean. But I

495
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 7: can imagine at least one jur of being a legal

496
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 7: stickler just to get I'm sorry to did not have

497
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 7: answered the question. I am definitely considered filing another letter

498
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,400
Speaker 7: because it's getting to be too much.

499
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 4: Well that thought, Matthew. We're going to be right back

500
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 4: with Matthew Russell Lee, who's been attending the did He

501
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 4: trial and updates on Travis Decker, a man, please say,

502
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,719
Speaker 4: killed his three young daughters. Stick around right here at

503
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 4: True Crime Tonight. We're still here with Matthew Russell Lee.

504
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 4: He wrote the book did he do It?

505
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 2: Us? Versus shan On Combs, And he's been reporting every

506
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 2: day from within the courthouse. And I've been following very

507
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 2: closely your work, and I agree with CJ our caller,

508
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 2: you've done a great job keeping us all informed and

509
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 2: kind of personalizing it because again we're seeing it from

510
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 2: a distance, it feels clinical, and I believe your reporting

511
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 2: really has humanized it. So, first and foremost, thank you

512
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 2: and thanks for hanging with us. More back to Puffy

513
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 2: in the Ditty trial, So I know CJ had a

514
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 2: very clear question about the dockets, et cetera. And you

515
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 2: know I had a quick question too for you, just

516
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 2: about being inside the courtroom. You know, Sean Dittycombs, his

517
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 2: family has been there right, his sons at one point,

518
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,360
Speaker 2: his twin daughters, his mother is really standing by him.

519
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 2: How is that scenario because I would have to assume

520
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,919
Speaker 2: as a family member, it's really brutal to have to

521
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,400
Speaker 2: watch these sex tapes and to hear some of.

522
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 5: These deals actually yeah, thankfully. I think they haven't. They haven't.

523
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 7: They've neither had to or been able to watch the

524
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 7: sex tape because the judge ordered that these tapes will

525
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,439
Speaker 7: only only be shown to the jury, and even for

526
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,159
Speaker 7: the lawyers to see them. There's a kind of a

527
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 7: screen over their screen, so that's sitting in the gallery.

528
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 7: You can't see them. I think that makes sense. Like

529
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 7: some people, I do a lot of filings to unseal things,

530
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,360
Speaker 7: but I decline to do a filing to unseal these

531
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 7: these sex tapes because they're pretty there's enough testimony about them,

532
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 7: you know, you can sort of figure what they are.

533
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 7: I think what people may not. This is a truly

534
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,880
Speaker 7: kind of twisted case in the sense that both with

535
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 7: Cassie and now with Jane, and probably with other women

536
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 7: that have declined to come forward and testify, what Combs

537
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 7: did is to is to kind of love bomb them,

538
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 7: as they say, bring them in so that they're and

539
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 7: then once they're kind of on the cook in the

540
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 7: case of Jane, also on the hook financially, I'd say

541
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 7: more so than Cassie, have them have sex with other

542
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 7: with with hired men that comes with himself pay for

543
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 7: Combs to watch. It's a very strange I think, you know,

544
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 7: kind of a fetish, but it's one that that's very

545
00:25:58,480 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 7: much as mo O. And he's been doing it for

546
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 7: a long time I have. I've yet to see if

547
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 7: there's going to be a defense case, you know, sort

548
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,880
Speaker 7: of not making him the victim as as to these

549
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 7: two women that he clearly abused.

550
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 5: But what is it? Why?

551
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,199
Speaker 7: Why is this something that he wanted to do, you know,

552
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 7: beyond the illegality of doing it personally, not to not

553
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 7: that's it and this is in that that did he

554
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 7: do it?

555
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 5: That you saw?

556
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 7: I've lived in New York a long time, so I

557
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,239
Speaker 7: kind of remember some of did he you know, coming up,

558
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 7: and he was a he was an authentic, you know, producer,

559
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 7: bad boy records. I believe that his father. I don't

560
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 7: think it's contested. His father was a drug dealer and

561
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 7: was killed and they had some hard times. I think

562
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 7: there's people that speculate that maybe he witnessed something as

563
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 7: a kid and trying to like, you know.

564
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 5: Recreate it.

565
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 7: It's difficult, the thing and I heard you ooh when

566
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 7: I first said it. Today it came out that this

567
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 7: may not be that unique a lifestyle among a certain

568
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 7: kind of elite rapper, because there's at least, according to James,

569
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,880
Speaker 7: there's at least one other iconic rapper with a wife

570
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 7: or girlfriend who wanted to watch such a performance as

571
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 7: they called it in Las Vegas. And I'm not saying

572
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 7: this to be Purian so much is to say. I

573
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 7: think at the beginning.

574
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 5: Of this trial, people thought this was going to be

575
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:06,360
Speaker 5: like Epstein.

576
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 7: They were going to be like all these names of

577
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 7: big people and politicians that went to the Hampton's and

578
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 7: they're terrible things they did. That probably happened, but it

579
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 7: didn't come out in this trial. But it did come

580
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 7: out today that at least one other like brand name.

581
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 5: Rapper is in this weird world.

582
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,199
Speaker 7: And the reason that we very casually James said that

583
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 7: she referred one of the male escorts to perform or

584
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 7: perform on or for it's unclear, this other couple. So

585
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 7: they used the same and they use the term in

586
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 7: the lifestyle. They said they're also in the lifestyle. I

587
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 7: guess it's a swinging lifestyle, but it's a it's different

588
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 7: even than what I could see a swinging lifestyle.

589
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's weird.

590
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 2: They're video taping it, right, So if you're taping it

591
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 2: and you're using that, you know, footage against this person,

592
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,360
Speaker 2: whether they love you or not, that's the crime, right,

593
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 2: Or if there's drugs involved that are being forced on people.

594
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 2: You know, you had said that so perfectly because there

595
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 2: was this idea that all of these celebrities, the biggest

596
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 2: names in the business. I won't even say them out loud,

597
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 2: but in your mind, think of the busiest names in

598
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 2: the business, and they're probably in this list that had

599
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 2: been gossiped about for a really long time. That doesn't

600
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,199
Speaker 2: seem to have happened quite quite yet. And that's what

601
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,239
Speaker 2: I get worried that we're getting a little desensitized. I mean,

602
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 2: look at cistory as old as times. Sometimes men fake

603
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 2: love for sex, right, right, and sometimes women may fake

604
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 2: sex for love. That is like this perfect storm at

605
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 2: the beginning, and next thing you know, you're a Jane

606
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 2: Do or Mia or any of these victims, and maybe

607
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 2: you're in way over your head or at the bare minimum,

608
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 2: you were into it and now you're not, and you

609
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 2: on out and you can't because, like you said, you're

610
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 2: financially dependent, and there's tape of it.

611
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 7: I mean, I think You're absolutely right. I feel you're

612
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 7: it is. You can you can sense how it's like

613
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 7: a very slippery slope, particularly with Cassie, and but also

614
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 7: with Jane's very slippery slope from like she kept saying

615
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 7: that she had this way of saying, you know, I

616
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 7: wanted to make my partner happy, and suddenly it turns

617
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 7: out your partner is like totally insane and you're doing

618
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 7: things that you would never have thought of doing. And

619
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 7: then I just the only thing I will say, and

620
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 7: it's not at all to try to try to try

621
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 7: Some of this filming wasn't in the first instance, I

622
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 7: think in order to extort and control the person because

623
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 7: they Jane testified that they would together watch these performances later,

624
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 7: and that she even said that she wanted she sometimes

625
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 7: liked that they had been filmed, and in fact gave

626
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 7: Sean Combs a mobile TV he could watch these tapes

627
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 7: on because she thought it would keep him from forcing

628
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 7: her to do it again. But if you could just

629
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 7: see it being done, been done in the past, this

630
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 7: came out. I mean, I'm not that's that's a true

631
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 7: line of testimony. And I think that the of course,

632
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 7: the defense picked up on that and tried to say, like,

633
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 7: it's not as abusive as you think. Why if you were,

634
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 7: if you were being abused, if you knew you were

635
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 7: being abused, why did you buy him at TV to

636
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 7: watch it on? And she did come up I'm not

637
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 7: saying come up with She had an answer, which was

638
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 7: to say he could just watch it. Maybe she wouldn't

639
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 7: make him do it so much, you know. And in fact,

640
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 7: she even said in the present tense, she said, I

641
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 7: loved him, and she's as even after she saw that

642
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 7: this now famous video of of Sean Combe's kicking Cassie

643
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 7: on the ground in a hotel in Los Angeles in

644
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 7: twenty sixteen, she was still trying.

645
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 5: To help him.

646
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 7: She was trying to help She was strategizing with him

647
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 7: how to explain that. Like before he did his apology

648
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 7: over Instagram, she viewed it and said, I think this

649
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 7: looks good. And then he changed it and it wasn't

650
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 7: as apologetic. But they still she continued to do after

651
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 7: seeing that, she continued to do these freak off events

652
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 7: or performances, or they call them hotel nights.

653
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 2: Hotel knights, the freak offs, right, and it reminds you too,

654
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 2: it is to your point, a very slippery slope that

655
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes people don't realize too. I think in

656
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,959
Speaker 2: these types of trauma bonds, right, whatever that is, you know,

657
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 2: you get so psychologically pulled in that you don't really

658
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 2: you don't really want to leave your captive. She seemed

659
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 2: like she truly loved him, and then she was crazy

660
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 2: jealous when she realized that she was doing what she

661
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 2: considered things that maybe were degrading at a certain point

662
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 2: when other women didn't have to do that and we're

663
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 2: able to go on vacation with him time.

664
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's exactly what they they they fastened, both sides

665
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 7: fastened on them because I think the defense one wants

666
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,719
Speaker 7: to portray her as jealous. And of course, and and

667
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 7: so they they she would say.

668
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 5: Why do your other girlfriends?

669
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 7: Because he was he was he was not even pretending

670
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 7: to be monogamous, which is totally fine. Again, there's a

671
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 7: big thing that I think is going to come in

672
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 7: the defense, the defense case and on appeal if he's convicted,

673
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 7: they're going to say, you know, as a sort of

674
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 7: first Amendment or sort of privacy issue, this is all

675
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 7: about a man's personal sex life. These were kinky, most

676
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 7: people may not like this. Most people think it's terrible.

677
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,959
Speaker 7: But what is the government doing in the bedroom. But

678
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 7: of course if you're actually, you know, criminally assaulting.

679
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 5: People, they will be in your bedroom, right, So that's.

680
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 7: Exactly the the The defense is very good.

681
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 5: They have set up.

682
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 7: They've set that that if he's convicted, and I think

683
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 7: most people think given the batting average of the prosecutors

684
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 7: that that will happen. But if he's convicted, he'll definitely

685
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 7: be a doing that. But he'll be in jail while

686
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 7: he appeals because he's in jail now, unlike many of

687
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 7: the high profile defendants who are like chef Senator Bob Menendez,

688
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 7: it wasn't a violent crime, but he was not in

689
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 7: jail and various other you know defendants around here. But

690
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 7: Combs will probably not get out of jail pending appeals.

691
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 7: So the appeal is a little less attractive or at

692
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 7: least least less important than it would be if he

693
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:27,959
Speaker 7: stayed out of jail while doing right.

694
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 2: Exhausting. It must be an exhausting effort too. I've heard

695
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 2: that he's ill or sick or suffering from a flu

696
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 2: like that he felt really off this week. Has that

697
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 2: been your experience as well.

698
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, I think it's true. I mean I think

699
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 7: initially they there's a lot of complaints about the jail

700
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 7: where he's staying.

701
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 5: The MDC.

702
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 7: He's in a relatively better wing of it, But who

703
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 7: am I to say? Yeah, it definitely is grueling, and

704
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 7: to get to be there in court, to be produced

705
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 7: in court as he is at eight thirty in the morning, you're.

706
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 5: Taking a van.

707
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 7: You're being put on a van in Brooklyn at five am,

708
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 7: which means you're pretty much getting up at like four am.

709
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 7: And and the lawyers are saying that they need to

710
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 7: meet with him every night. They even stayed late in

711
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 7: the courthouse one night because you know, they want to

712
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 7: go over with him like the next witness. You know,

713
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 7: what do you know about them, because he obviously he's

714
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 7: the one who knows whatever they could use on cross

715
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 7: So it has.

716
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 5: Been a bit, it has.

717
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 7: I mean I thought you were going to I was

718
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 7: much less so. But even for the journalists covering it,

719
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 7: it's pretty grueling because you know every day they'd be

720
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 7: eight thirty to begin with the legal arguments, but you

721
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 7: never know when Today he let the jury go early,

722
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 7: and then he stayed for the judge, I mean for

723
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 7: you know, an extra hour and a half with with

724
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 7: legal arguments, and he told us we couldn't leave the courtroom.

725
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 7: I have to I'm not claiming this is a human

726
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 7: rights violation, but it was the jury. Yeah, I'm joking there,

727
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 7: but with the jury not not. I understand that you

728
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 7: shouldn't be able to leave the courtroom in front of

729
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 7: the jury and create a disruption. But the jury had left,

730
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 7: and maybe somebody was being too loud, but he was like,

731
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 7: if you didn't leave when the jury left, you have

732
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 7: to stay for this. And no one had any idea

733
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 7: how long the legal argument was going to go. There

734
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 7: was there there were audible groans when someone said just

735
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 7: one more issue, your honor, which normally you wouldn't have

736
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 7: because you could just leave. But this is for some reason,

737
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 7: I guess, because there's such a crush to get into

738
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 7: the courtroom. He figures there should be a crush to

739
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 7: get out of the courtroom, even if it really wouldn't, like,

740
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 7: you know, no juror would see people leaving and say,

741
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 7: you know, why are they leaving? Was this particularly newsworthy testimony?

742
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 5: Or you know what I mean?

743
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 3: We're obsessed with you with a capital O, and everyone

744
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 3: please please follow Matthew on x at Inner City Press

745
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 3: to get all the latest in the trial and his

746
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 3: book Did He Do It Us Versus Sean Combs.

747
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 6: It's available on Amazon.

748
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 2: And his work has been extraordinary. He's reporting there daily

749
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 2: from within the courtroom. I follow his work and it's

750
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 2: really insightful and you could also catch his many other

751
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 2: cases that he works on on the Innercitypress dot com.

752
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 2: That's the name of his website, Innercitypress dot com. And Matthew,

753
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 2: thank you for joining us and we are excited to

754
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 2: have you back very soon. So moving forward, Courtney, where

755
00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 2: do you want to begin.

756
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 3: Well, it's a it's a bitter sweet story, mainly bitter,

757
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 3: I have to say, but Maxwell Anderson was found guilty

758
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:11,320
Speaker 3: of dismembering Shade Robinson. But Shade's mother has started a

759
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 3: beautiful foundation. So to fill you in if you haven't

760
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 3: been following, a Milwaukee jury finally convicted the thirty four

761
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 3: year old bartender Anderson. He killed and he mutilated this

762
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 3: beautiful nineteen year old girl after they met on a

763
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:26,439
Speaker 3: first date.

764
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 6: Shawd.

765
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 3: That was hideous, you know, just senseless and her really grisome.

766
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 3: Her body parts were found throughout Milwaukee shortly after the

767
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 3: first date. Investigators really dug in. They identified Anderson as

768
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 3: the perpetrator through quite a lot of evidence.

769
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 6: There was surveillance footage, there was.

770
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 3: Digital data, DNA analysis, and witness testimony. So thankfully, Maxwell

771
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 3: was convicted on all counts, including first degree intentional murder.

772
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 3: His attorneys say he plans to appeal his conviction, and

773
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 3: I hope that he sits where he is for.

774
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 6: A long time and we don't see that.

775
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 3: The silver lining is Shadai's mother has started the Shadai's

776
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 3: Voice Foundation. It's a nonprofit organization. It is dedicated to

777
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 3: improving the lives of those in need and they strive

778
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 3: to create positive.

779
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 6: Change in the community.

780
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 3: It's through various initiatives and programs, So anyone who wants

781
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 3: to get involved please visit Shadai's Voice Foundation dot com.

782
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,839
Speaker 3: It's really worthy. And the fact that Sadi's mother has

783
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 3: the wherewithal.

784
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 2: Two, yeah, it's very instant. This woman and her so strong.

785
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 4: The worst day of her life, right, the worst thing

786
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 4: that can happen to a woman, right, losing their child,

787
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 4: and what does she do. She turns around and says,

788
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 4: I want to help others. I mean, I have the

789
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,359
Speaker 4: chills thinking about that kind of courage, you know, and

790
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 4: I just have to really respect that kind of that

791
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 4: kind of word too.

792
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 2: And I just I think it's all so why we

793
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 2: like even just being able to talk about some of

794
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 2: this stuff, because you speak with victims of family members

795
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 2: or family members of victims, I should say, and they

796
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 2: push on and I find that incredibly inspiring.

797
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:14,720
Speaker 4: And I feel like I would just be a bag

798
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 4: on the floor, you know, rolled up, and I see

799
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 4: these especially women, I mean, let's be real, and you know,

800
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 4: some men like Joe Patito amazing, incredible. You know, they

801
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 4: just do they just they take a tragedy and they

802
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,399
Speaker 4: rough it up into a diamond. And for me, it's

803
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 4: very inspiring and very hopeful, like, no matter what happens

804
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,280
Speaker 4: to you, no matter what happens, you can recover.

805
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,240
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, it's just very inspiring and you don't really

806
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 2: do it alone. So this is a safe space, So

807
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 2: join us, share your opinion, share your stories. We are

808
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 2: in no judgment zone eight eight eight to three one crime.

809
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 2: We're going to be right back a little bit more

810
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 2: on Karen Reid True Crime tonight, where we're talking true

811
00:37:53,800 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 2: crime all the time. Body, where should we start.

812
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 4: Let's start with Harvey Weinstein jury pandemonium. Yes, right, yes,

813
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,399
Speaker 4: I've never heard I've never heard of this before. I'm

814
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 4: sure it's happened, but I have never heard of this before.

815
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 4: When we were talking earlier in our meeting about this,

816
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 4: I was like, I'm gonna have to look this up.

817
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 2: And I did and I couldn't find another instance of this. Okay,

818
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 2: this is what happened.

819
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 4: A New York judge has declared a mistrial on the

820
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 4: third degree rape count in the Harvey Weinstein retrial. So,

821
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 4: just like Karen Reid, there's been there's a new trial

822
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 4: basically for Harvey Weinstein. Well, the reason that they declared

823
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 4: a mistrial is that the jury foreman refused to go

824
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,280
Speaker 4: back to deliberate about this count because.

825
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 2: They said it was so dangerous.

826
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 4: They said it was dangerous, like I'm I if you

827
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 4: have you if you don't know what's going on. He's

828
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 4: a former former movie model. He's accused of sexually assaulting

829
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 4: three women over a decade ago in New York City,

830
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 4: and in twenty two his conviction was basically overturned because

831
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 4: of a procedural area which is like always like a

832
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 4: horrifying thought, right that like pay for work filing or something,

833
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 4: you get something overturned. But that's what happened, and the

834
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 4: jury the this is the thing. The foreman cannot be

835
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,240
Speaker 4: replaced and that's why it's Astopher replaced.

836
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 2: So therefore it's a mistrial.

837
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 4: That is well, it can they can be replaced as

838
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 4: long as they are an I'm sorry, as long as

839
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 4: there is an alternative to back them up, right, But

840
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 4: they dismissed the alternatives.

841
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 2: What why would they do that? I don't know.

842
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 4: It's so interesting, it's crazy. So that that's what's going on.

843
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 4: So we're gonna see what's gonna happen. They the prosecution

844
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 4: has said that they are already ready to retry him

845
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 4: again for this count on the rape count. After you know,

846
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 4: there'll be a period of time for them to regroup

847
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 4: and they're gonna have to retry this. Wow, that's gonna

848
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:50,839
Speaker 4: that's gonna be happening, So stay tuned for that.

849
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 3: I gotta be honest. This sounds a lot less like

850
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 3: Twelve Angry Men and more like why.

851
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 4: I love that movie though it's a great It is

852
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 4: a great movie. If you want a great movie on

853
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 4: critical thinking. Uh right, No, seriously, like that is such

854
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 4: a great movie to watch for critical thinking skills.

855
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 2: It's fantastic.

856
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 4: But you know what's kind of wild too, Another jury

857
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 4: member said, and I'm quoting, they all thought they were

858
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 4: involved in normal discourse and they don't understand why the

859
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 4: why the four person bowed out.

860
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,919
Speaker 2: It is a little bit of a controversial room. You're

861
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 2: supposed to be a little here.

862
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 4: You're supposed to be a little kated, and you're supposed

863
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 4: to argue your point, right, And apparently this jury foreman

864
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 4: felt threatened and he didn't. He refused to go back

865
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 4: to deliberate this specific count, the rape count. So anyway,

866
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 4: we're gonna we're gonna be reporting on this, you know,

867
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 4: moving forward, So stick around for that. And I also

868
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 4: have information about Travis Decker. Yes, so police have said

869
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 4: they believe they are closing in on Travis Decker. You know,

870
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 4: we've been hearing this for a couple of days now,

871
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,959
Speaker 4: right that they they think they spotted him on a tray.

872
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 4: There was a report from hikers that said they thought

873
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 4: they saw a well they did see a loan hiker

874
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 4: and that he looked ill equipped to be there. And

875
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 4: then they sent the helicopter out and you know, he

876
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 4: apparently ran from the helicopter off into the wilderness. The

877
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 4: Sheriff's office has turned over the search efforts to the

878
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,479
Speaker 4: US Marshals, which is fabulous because you know, the US

879
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 4: Marshals are just such a great organization and they do

880
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 4: a really good job at bringing people in. Well, the

881
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 4: Sheriff's office is going to be handling the investigation.

882
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 6: Now.

883
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 2: If you're not familiar with Travis.

884
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 4: Decker, Travis Decker is accused of killing his three young children.

885
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 4: He picked them up from their mom's house on a

886
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,479
Speaker 4: Friday night and he was supposed to return them home

887
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 4: that night. They never came home, and of course they

888
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 4: started looking for them. The girls were found at like

889
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 4: kind of like a remote camp site, and you know,

890
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 4: they had been murdered by somebody, and they're assuming it's Travisdecker.

891
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 2: His truck was there, his dog was there.

892
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 4: The dog is fine, the dog is at the Humane Society,

893
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 4: very friendly husky. But they found blood and they say

894
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 4: there's two sets of blood. Okay, the girls were not

895
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,839
Speaker 4: killed in a way in which there would be blood

896
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,240
Speaker 4: left behind. So when they tested these two samples of blood,

897
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,320
Speaker 4: one was male human male, and one was non human.

898
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 4: So I don't know what does that even mean.

899
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 3: That means, well, not for nothing, but if you're out

900
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 3: in the brush and the wilderness and the brambles, you know,

901
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 3: it could be obviously, like you said, it's not identified.

902
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 3: But if I don't know, if it's Travis's on his

903
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 3: own car, you known too.

904
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 2: He's been at large for a while now, and again

905
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 2: such a heinous crime, you know. The thought was that

906
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 2: he was googling how to escape to Canada paraphrasing, So

907
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 2: the fact that he was close to the border, that

908
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 2: all sort of tracks either he's already in Canada and

909
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 2: therefore will be harder to find, or he's a bit

910
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 2: of a survivalist too, He's trained to survive in the wilderness,

911
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 2: so him being out there displaced or otherwise, it's kind

912
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 2: of surprising that he hasn't been captured yet. It is

913
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:08,240
Speaker 2: kind of shocking, actually.

914
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 4: And I read some chatter, and I read some chadder

915
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 4: that they they think he's wearing flip flops, like why

916
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 4: would I be wearings? Like I said, the hiker said

917
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 4: he was ill equipped, so maybe that was like a

918
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 4: sign that he was ill equipped to be out there

919
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 4: and this rugged. If you look at this area of Washington,

920
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 4: it's it's, oh my gosh, it's so beautiful, but it's

921
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 4: very rural and very like forest, right like it's idyllic.

922
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 2: Especially this time of year, it's like right rush and

923
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 2: it's beautiful.

924
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 4: So beautiful, and you know, to be out there and surviving,

925
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 4: you would think you're going to need to be you know,

926
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 4: kind of you know, got some kind of equipment on

927
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 4: that protects you from those brambles and things like that

928
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 4: that are out there.

929
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 2: But they said he was ill equipped, so I'm assuming.

930
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 4: I'm definitely just assuming here allegedly allegedly allegedly he's wearing

931
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:54,280
Speaker 4: flip flops.

932
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 2: The dogs, Yeah, I'm sorry.

933
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 4: So after the helic after the helicopters were deployed and

934
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 4: they saw the who they think is Travis Decker, they

935
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 4: say he kind of ran off, and they deployed dogs

936
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 4: the federal government and the Sheriff's office who were still

937
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 4: who were at that time assisting in the search, and

938
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 4: the dogs tracked him to a highway. So they're pretty

939
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 4: convinced he is still around and not you know, laying

940
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 4: in a ditch somewhere and I really hope they find

941
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,800
Speaker 4: him because these little girls need some justice, and hopefully

942
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 4: he doesn't take the coward's way out, you.

943
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 3: Know, right right, yeah, So we should all hope for

944
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 3: his You know that all the people who are doing

945
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 3: the searching are able to find him. And if you

946
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 3: want to weigh in with your thoughts, give us a

947
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 3: call eight to eighty three to one crime or send

948
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 3: us a talkback message. When you're listening on the iHeartRadio app,

949
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 3: you just click on the microphone icon in the top

950
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 3: right corner. And speaking of we have a talkback right

951
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:53,320
Speaker 3: now about Karen Reid.

952
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 9: Hi, my name is Kelly from TikTok, Kelly Reid. I

953
00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 9: just want to know from body, what do you think

954
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 9: needs to have happened in closing arguments tomorrow to convince you?

955
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 9: Because I know that you think Karen Reid is guilty.

956
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 9: I want to know what can convince you home girl

957
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 9: didn't do it.

958
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 2: Great question, I'm delivering good. I'm going to throw it

959
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 2: to you body, what Kelly would actually need to see

960
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 2: in this courtroom in seventy five minutes or less. I

961
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 2: don't listen.

962
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 4: There's nothing that the closing arguments can do to convince me,

963
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 4: because you can't present new evidence of closing arguments. That's

964
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 4: my answer and I'm sticking to it. And Kelly, You're

965
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,359
Speaker 4: in a lot of trouble. Kelly, No, I mean, for real,

966
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 4: you can't present new evidence and closing arguments. So the

967
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 4: only thing the defense I think would be able to

968
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 4: do is to convince me is, you know, basically re

969
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 4: establish the credentials of the defense witnesses that basically countered

970
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 4: the prosecution expert who I believe, And I don't know

971
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 4: that they could do that. You know very well, listen,

972
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,800
Speaker 4: I look at you, look at the world, very simple,

973
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 4: you know, like usually the simplest explanation is normally the answer.

974
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 6: Sez h.

975
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, And the simplest answer is that she backed up

976
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 4: going twenty four miles an hour and his phone stopped

977
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 4: at the same time. And I don't think the people

978
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 4: inside the house knew that. You don't think that people

979
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 4: in the house knew that? And all of the Shenani games,

980
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 4: how did the people in the house snow? How did

981
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 4: the people in the house snow that Karen Reid backed

982
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 4: up going twenty four miles an hour at that time,

983
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 4: that his phone stopped moving.

984
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,399
Speaker 2: Well, okay, throw the phone out. Didn't even go out

985
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 2: of the house. Some people didn't even exit the house.

986
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,479
Speaker 2: Their buddy is dead at the bottom of the road,

987
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 2: and nobody came out of the house. And is it

988
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 2: possible that tomorrow in the courtroom suddenly there's a Brian,

989
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 2: any of the Brians. That's like it was me. I

990
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:52,800
Speaker 2: didn't I confess that would change things? Maybe, But yeah,

991
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 2: I hear you. I think it's a great question.

992
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 4: And what would change Let me let me flip it.

993
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 4: What would change your mind? Steph, I can answer that

994
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 4: inside that I my mind is made up. And by

995
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 4: the way, that maybe really clear about me too. I

996
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 4: genuinely just don't know.

997
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 2: And I just think it's such a mess that that

998
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 2: alone is an answer, unfortunately, and I hate it and

999
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 2: it makes me mad, and I feel like there's favor

1000
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 2: in this, and I just don't like when people get

1001
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 2: ganged up on. So whether it's a club or a group,

1002
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 2: whether it's cops or you know, martians, you know, it

1003
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. I feel like they got it was like

1004
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 2: a pack and that makes me scared because I don't

1005
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 2: think the justice system should really work that way. I agree,

1006
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 2: but I don't know. Just you know, another side to

1007
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 2: that would be, if they were trying to cover up

1008
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 2: a crime, how did they know how much time they

1009
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 2: had between when Karen left the scene and when she

1010
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 2: came back. That's a pretty big leap of faith, given

1011
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 2: that they didn't really leave the house. I mean, there

1012
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 2: seems to have been a lot of activity in those hours.

1013
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 2: But if they're trying to plant evidence in all of

1014
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 2: the above, how would they know she wasn't going to

1015
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 2: roll right back within twenty minutes? Right Like? How did

1016
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 2: they know she was not just down the street sleeping

1017
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 2: for a hot seame seconds. That's a little confusing to me.

1018
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 2: But then you just see the mile in miles in

1019
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:08,800
Speaker 2: miles of silliness that went down in that investigation and

1020
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:10,320
Speaker 2: arguing that.

1021
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,240
Speaker 4: That did not happen. I mean, listen, I am perfectly

1022
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 4: willing to admit that I don't know either. I think

1023
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,399
Speaker 4: she's guilty, right Like, I don't know, but I think

1024
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 4: she is right. If the state comes back or I'm sorry,

1025
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 4: if the jury comes back and they found her guilty,

1026
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,720
Speaker 4: I'll be like, okay, but I probably won't be happy

1027
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 4: about it because this investigation should have failed because it

1028
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 4: was just so terrible and honestly, the Commonwealth didn't really

1029
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 4: have a lot to work with in the how the

1030
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 4: investigation went with. I think they did a good job

1031
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:42,240
Speaker 4: with what they had, I agree, And what they had

1032
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 4: was a pile of you know, don jump.

1033
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:51,439
Speaker 3: Terribly gathered evidence. Also, officers who were not only with

1034
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 3: John o'keef that night and then suspiciously had to go

1035
00:48:56,840 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 3: down to the police station at one third in the morning.

1036
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 2: That's odd, Okay, God, it's very If there was a

1037
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 2: blizzard that night, I could drink crazy in the morning,

1038
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 2: you know, like they were boozy. Why is everybody wandering

1039
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 2: around in the blizzard? Why alcohol in your system? Why

1040
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 2: are they old cops? Yes, Like, what is going isn't

1041
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 2: that in and of itself illegal? Shouldn't they all be

1042
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 2: arrested just for dui charges, like anybody else who's driving

1043
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:28,240
Speaker 2: drunk in the middle of the night, putting lives in jeopardy.

1044
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,720
Speaker 2: This not this could have been avoided. Again, no judgment,

1045
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 2: I'm just just an observation. Oh I'm judging.

1046
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 3: Listen if you want, if you want to judge, give

1047
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 3: us a call eight A eight three one crime and

1048
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 3: we'd love to hear your thoughts on anything Harvey Weinstein,

1049
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 3: Karen Reid, Travis Decker, any of Tonight's stories.

1050
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 2: So we are talking about Lori Daybell. You'll remember Lori

1051
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:56,399
Speaker 2: day Bell Valo, that's her married name, the doomsday Mom,

1052
00:49:56,600 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 2: affectionately known as she has been accused of murdering her

1053
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:03,399
Speaker 2: two children, and she claims that she is innocent. She's

1054
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 2: also accused of killing her ex husband. She also claims

1055
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 2: she's innocent, and now she's been up for another trial

1056
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 2: where allegedly she conspired to murder her niece's ex husband.

1057
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 2: So that would give her a pretty decent body count. Oh,

1058
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:22,319
Speaker 2: not to mention her current husband now ex wife. You

1059
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 2: know she also died in her sleep by suspicious circumstances.

1060
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 2: A perfectly healthy woman who just went to bed healthy

1061
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 2: and woke up dead again. Lori Valo da Bell claims

1062
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,359
Speaker 2: that that had nothing to do with her what and

1063
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 2: we all know that she had very big apocalyptic thoughts.

1064
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 2: So body fill us in on the trial today.

1065
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 4: Well, for the third time in less than three years,

1066
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 4: Laurie Valodabell has been found guilty. That's a shocking and shocked.

1067
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 4: Oh but I'm shocked after listen, and here's the thing.

1068
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:58,319
Speaker 4: The jury only deliberated for half an hour.

1069
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like they walked out. She didn't even

1070
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,359
Speaker 2: have any She didn't even have any witnesses, right, she did,

1071
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 2: so the state rested it was her time to present

1072
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 2: her case. No witnesses. It's crazy.

1073
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 4: I mean, and I and listen, they didn't show her

1074
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 4: face when they were reading the verdict. I was watching

1075
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 4: live and I was kind of hoping I could see

1076
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 4: her face, but they just show like the back of

1077
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:20,760
Speaker 4: her head and no reaction. As far as I could tell,

1078
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 4: she absolutely knew it was coming, but she seemed kind

1079
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:25,720
Speaker 4: of listen.

1080
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:26,359
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1081
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 4: It seemed like she wants to get out of Arizona

1082
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 4: because she kept asking the judge, well, what you know,

1083
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 4: Idaho wants to pick me up?

1084
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 2: When can I get my sentencing?

1085
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 4: And he's like, in like thirty days, we could do

1086
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 4: it the ed of July, and she's like, can it

1087
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 4: not be sooner? She wants out of Arizona, And I

1088
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,879
Speaker 4: suspect it's because she doesn't want to be in jail, right,

1089
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 4: she probably wants her cell and in the prison's probably nicer.

1090
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:51,720
Speaker 2: I don't I'm only guessing it is not taken nicely

1091
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 2: in prisons of any kind, regardless of gender. If you

1092
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 2: have been accused of murdering your kids, oh and found

1093
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:02,800
Speaker 2: guilty of your beautiful children that were you know, found

1094
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 2: in a shallow grave and really mistreated. And she still

1095
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 2: sticks to her junkie story of whoops. She literally blames

1096
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 2: her sixteen year old daughter Tily, for murdering her younger

1097
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 2: brother JJ. He also was autistic. She blames her daughter

1098
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 2: for murdering her son out of like a fight or something.

1099
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:26,360
Speaker 2: She was angry, and then she took her own life

1100
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 2: because she felt so guilty. And this whole time, thank goodness,

1101
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 2: this doomsday mom. She has been protecting her daughter. What

1102
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 2: a saint. When you look at her, she to me

1103
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 2: looks like one of the most evil people. I say this,

1104
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 2: never agree. This is a rare thing for me to

1105
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 2: say that. She to me is one of the scariest

1106
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 2: of all of them, because she also has no shame

1107
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 2: in the game. She seems pretty smug. Whenever you see her.

1108
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:55,400
Speaker 4: She's absolutely smug, And she's like talking about like what

1109
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:58,959
Speaker 4: a moral character she is in part yeah, oh my god,

1110
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:00,240
Speaker 4: she's the good mom.

1111
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, and Angelata's and also how much. You know,

1112
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 3: Jesus loves everybody, but he loves me the most. That's

1113
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 3: something she says a lot, a lot.

1114
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 6: You know.

1115
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 3: It's not like I hang out and have coffee with her,

1116
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 3: but I have seen her in different clips and interviews

1117
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 3: and she has said it or well particularly did you

1118
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 3: guys see when she was on twenty twenty with Keith

1119
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 3: Morrison by any chance?

1120
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, almost offensive? Yeah, I found it. I was

1121
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 2: like yelling at the television. I thought he was so

1122
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 2: kind and gracious with her, and she, to me, was

1123
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:38,720
Speaker 2: the epitome of psychopath central.

1124
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 3: Oh, she just kept coming after him. Yeah, what do

1125
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 3: you think, Keith, You think that's your truth?

1126
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 6: Keith? Like she yeah, she's really a piece of work.

1127
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 4: Well and like you said, she's really smug, right, Like

1128
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:54,840
Speaker 4: she represented herself pro se like in my opinion, unless

1129
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 4: you're a lawyer, and like, who represents themselves like idiots do.

1130
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 6: Someone who wants to idiot we're smart?

1131
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:03,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, people who think they're smarter than all of it.

1132
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 2: And by the way, let's just go there for a second.

1133
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 2: If you're not familiar with the case. Lori Lori da

1134
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 2: bell Valo. Valo is her now married name. Well, Bell's day.

1135
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:16,800
Speaker 2: Bell is the day Belle is her husband, who's also

1136
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 2: behind bars and will be so forever. Her children were

1137
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:23,879
Speaker 2: found on his property and those two fell in love.

1138
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 2: And while they were gallivanting getting married, buying a wedding dress,

1139
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 2: getting her nails done, her kids were missing. The entire

1140
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:34,919
Speaker 2: country was looking for them, literally, the entire country. Yeah,

1141
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 2: we were all sickened at the notion that these two

1142
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 2: beautiful kids could still be missing and we have to

1143
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 2: find them. And then meanwhile, Mom is in Hawaii on

1144
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 2: like a vacation, basically sitting by the pool without a

1145
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 2: care in the world. She wasn't crying, she wasn't upset,

1146
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 2: and she was just, you know, in love with this guy,

1147
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:58,280
Speaker 2: Dave Bell, who claims to like have some big afterlife planned.

1148
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:00,959
Speaker 2: There was this big doomsday that was to happen, which

1149
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 2: never did. I wonder if at this point, if tonight

1150
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 2: now she got this sentence, is she sitting in jail nervous?

1151
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:11,759
Speaker 2: Is she sitting in jail sick? Is she sitting in

1152
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 2: jail realizing the doomsday never came? The man was a scam.

1153
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 2: You killed your kids because of some guy, and now

1154
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 2: all of it was a hoax. And you're the center

1155
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 2: stage joke. Welcome, Laurie Davell Valo, whatever the heck your

1156
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:29,400
Speaker 2: name is. I love it, think so, I think so

1157
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 2: I get so riled up.

1158
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 4: I'm like, I would love to think that that she

1159
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:36,400
Speaker 4: is having those revelations, and that's not a pun I

1160
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:38,360
Speaker 4: you know, I would. I would love to think that

1161
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 4: she's having those revelations. But at the same time, I

1162
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 4: don't think she is. I think she's still convinced. Yes,

1163
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 4: I think she's still very loyal to Chad, who, by

1164
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 4: the way, that's her current husband, who is an Idaho

1165
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 4: prison be for being convicted of crimes, but for example

1166
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:54,799
Speaker 4: killing his wife.

1167
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 2: Right.

1168
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 4: I just I just don't think that she is at

1169
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 4: all thinking that she was so at all.

1170
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 2: I think they absolutely believe it.

1171
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, Boddy, I think I don't think.

1172
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 3: I absolutely agree with you that she is sitting there

1173
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 3: righteous in her rightness. So no, Unfortunately, I don't think

1174
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 3: she could actually reach out for the feelings that you're

1175
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 3: talking about.

1176
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:17,840
Speaker 6: Stephanie. I don't think that.

1177
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:21,320
Speaker 3: She has don't access to be Yeah, Stephanie is sweating

1178
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 3: over Laurie day Bell as she should.

1179
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 6: Crazy.

1180
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 2: She literally makes me crazy, And I say that I

1181
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 2: don't get that riled up. So I don't know what

1182
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:30,919
Speaker 2: she gets under my skin. In a way I can't

1183
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 2: quite describe.

1184
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 3: She really does seem to lack. I don't even know

1185
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 3: what kind of chip it is, but there's some kind

1186
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 3: of almost human.

1187
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:45,359
Speaker 2: Yeah. And we've interviewed many of the people in her life,

1188
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:48,360
Speaker 2: her former sister in law that was the sister of

1189
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 2: her now deceased ex husband. We've interviewed people that you know,

1190
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 2: worked with her, that were her neighbors. Oh yeah, she

1191
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 2: was like the loveliest Yeah, yeah she was. So she was.

1192
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 4: There today in fact, act really quick, you don't mind.

1193
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:04,760
Speaker 2: So what this trial was about.

1194
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,800
Speaker 4: What she's been convicted of is conspiracy to commit murder

1195
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:13,520
Speaker 4: against her basically her ex nephew in law. Okay, so

1196
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 4: her niece was with this guy and somebody they were in.

1197
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 4: He went to the gym, he came home, pulled in

1198
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 4: and somebody shot at him from a jeep. Well, they

1199
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 4: thankfully were unsuccessful. Find they find out that it's you know,

1200
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 4: Laurie Dabell's brother in the car in the jeep, right,

1201
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 4: and that she had purchased like the phones to communicate

1202
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 4: with and had all the receipts for like the equipment

1203
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 4: and whatnot. So she is involved in this conspiracy to

1204
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 4: commit murder and she's been found guilty. Well after court,

1205
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 4: the victim who his life was attempted. His name is

1206
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 4: Brandon Bordeaux, and he said two thousand and seventy eight days,

1207
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 4: referencing the number of days since the shooting. Hatred, selfishness,

1208
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:58,919
Speaker 4: and greed almost led to the end of my life.

1209
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 4: Twelve strangers verified that Laurie must be held accountable. I

1210
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 4: did not enjoy sitting and giving someone who tried to

1211
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 4: kill me the chance to question me. But I owed

1212
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 4: it to Charles, to Tylee, to JJ and to Tammy

1213
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 4: to speak because I could.

1214
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's exactly right. They were out killing everybody.

1215
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 2: Those they were they really were.

1216
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 4: I mean, that's all the people that are responsible for

1217
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:27,320
Speaker 4: killing And by the way, Laurie Dabell's son Ryan was

1218
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 4: with him on the court steps, along with the woman

1219
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 4: you just spoke about, Kay Woodcock and k Woodcock again.

1220
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 4: She's the sister of Charles Valow, Laurie's now deceased husband,

1221
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 4: who she's also been you know who killed him too,

1222
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 4: who said we got the B the B word we

1223
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 4: got the bee again, and you know, hopefully this is

1224
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 4: the end, right, this is the end of the Laurie

1225
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 4: da Bell saga, hopefully nowfully and maybe there's something.

1226
00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 2: Maybe it's uncomfortable in general population. Oh sorry, you know,

1227
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 2: And again like these are things that I say that

1228
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 2: it's I it surprises me that somebody can be that

1229
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 2: beloved and such a great mom, which by all accounts

1230
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 2: she was considered really tremendous, and to have that be

1231
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 2: completely turned on her hands, to go from that to murder.

1232
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 4: Because she like, it's almost like she's she switched on

1233
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 4: an instant, right, And like Charles Valow and like the

1234
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 4: bodycam footage that we've seen him him was really concerned

1235
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 4: about her, like, my wife is going crazy.

1236
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, so went to authorities. Yeah, he went to the authorities.

1237
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 2: He was really concerned. Like this happened very quickly.

1238
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 3: That was so tragic to see her ex husband, her

1239
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 3: you know, murdered ex husband and just he was so desperate.

1240
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 3: She said, oh my god, she took everything. She took

1241
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 3: all my stuff and my cars, she took my dog,

1242
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 3: and then.

1243
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 6: She took his life.

1244
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 2: And then she took his life. And by the way,

1245
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 2: she had another son from a previous marriage that we interviewed.

1246
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 2: We were doing a project with Nancy Grace called Injustice

1247
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 2: with Nancy Grace, And you know, he's the nicest, the

1248
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 2: nicest now man, but you know, this young man, for

1249
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:07,919
Speaker 2: a long time, Laurie was his single mom, and then

1250
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:10,440
Speaker 2: she went on to have other children. So you know,

1251
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 2: he's very protective of her, and certainly at the time,

1252
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 2: this is many years ago, he you know, is very

1253
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 2: devoted to her. And it's just heartbreaking when you think

1254
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 2: of having to reconcile who your mother really is versus

1255
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 2: who you experienced her to be. And it's just the

1256
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:30,640
Speaker 2: pain in that moment must be unbearable. And you know,

1257
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:34,400
Speaker 2: again we wish them well and we hope that Laurie

1258
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 2: gets to her forever home.

1259
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 4: And I hope this is the start of some healing

1260
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 4: for the people who remain right exactly her son, Ryan

1261
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 4: and Kay of course, you know, and of course the victim, Brandon.

1262
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 4: You know, hopefully he can like finally get some closure

1263
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 4: with this horrible thing that happened. It's just terrible the

1264
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 4: way good by instruction they've done.

1265
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:58,320
Speaker 3: Moving on up next, we are diving back into the

1266
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 3: Karen Reid case. We have a couple of details you

1267
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 3: may not know about, and later we are turning the

1268
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:08,240
Speaker 3: mic over to you. Don't forget to call us eight

1269
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 3: eight eight thirty one crime. We're talking cheue crime all the.

1270
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 2: Time, Karen Reid, Listen, we cannot get enough of this

1271
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 2: case for some reason, and we just want to do

1272
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 2: a little bit of the players and kind of fill

1273
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:34,440
Speaker 2: you in on some of the backstories to the people

1274
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 2: who were there that night and sort of what that implies,

1275
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 2: because we've been throwing around a lot of names in

1276
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:43,280
Speaker 2: my opinion, So Karen Reid, if you don't know and

1277
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 2: haven't been following this, she's having her retrial right now.

1278
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 2: We're expecting closing arguments to begin tomorrow. She's now standing

1279
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:54,400
Speaker 2: trial for the second time of allegedly killing her boyfriend

1280
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,439
Speaker 2: John O'Keefe. It's being alleged that she backed into him

1281
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:00,400
Speaker 2: with her lexus, leaving him for dead in the middle

1282
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:03,120
Speaker 2: of a snowstorm after a heavy night of drinking with

1283
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 2: their buddies. Those buddies also happen to be cops atf agents.

1284
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 2: You know, they're all sort of in this department or

1285
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 2: law enforcement and really well trained and really well respected

1286
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 2: the owner of the home that this happened in front

1287
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:20,920
Speaker 2: of was having a bit of an after party, and

1288
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 2: this after party included all over their friends again that

1289
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 2: were cops. So you would have to assume that if

1290
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 2: a body is found at the bottom of the driveway,

1291
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:32,080
Speaker 2: that this would be a really well handled crime scene,

1292
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:34,800
Speaker 2: simply because they are so well trained. And it seems

1293
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 2: like that really went out the window. So now that

1294
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:40,480
Speaker 2: we're waiting for these closing arguments, the defense and the

1295
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 2: prosecution have about seventy five minutes each to really sum

1296
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 2: it up. And her life is in limbo. She could

1297
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:49,280
Speaker 2: go to prison for the rest of her life, or

1298
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 2: she gets to go home and start her life over.

1299
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 2: And for the others, you know, the people that were

1300
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:57,920
Speaker 2: there that night, there's been a lot of suspicious chatter

1301
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 2: about their involvement or of a potent cover up again allegedly,

1302
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 2: allegedly allegedly, And I think that's just kind of worth

1303
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:06,760
Speaker 2: unpacking because it gets a lot of play and I

1304
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:08,480
Speaker 2: want to make sure we're not glossing over it.

1305
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:09,120
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1306
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And then also just let's not forget at the

1307
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:16,440
Speaker 3: center of this is John O'Keefe, the victim.

1308
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:17,240
Speaker 2: Who everybody loved.

1309
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:21,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and so just so you can call him

1310
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 3: to mind, so we don't gloss over him.

1311
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 6: You know.

1312
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 3: Born and raised in Massachusetts. He got his undergrad from

1313
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 3: Northeastern such a great school, and his masters and criminal

1314
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:35,680
Speaker 3: justice from New mass Lowell. He joined the Boston Police

1315
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:38,280
Speaker 3: Department he was twenty nine. And then here's a little

1316
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:42,680
Speaker 3: bit about a family which impacted his life and his

1317
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 3: life with Karen as well. He has a younger brother, Paul,

1318
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 3: who's been very vocal. Yeah, very supportive, very supportive. And

1319
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 3: then he also had a younger sister, Kristen, who passed

1320
01:03:56,520 --> 01:03:59,280
Speaker 3: away sadly from a brain tumor. This is back in

1321
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:05,400
Speaker 3: twenty thirteen. Now, Kristen's husband, John sadly passed away from

1322
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 3: a heart attack in twenty fourteen, and at that time,

1323
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:13,520
Speaker 3: John O'Keefe adopted his sister and brother in law's two

1324
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:15,919
Speaker 3: young children. They were six and nine at the time.

1325
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:17,919
Speaker 2: He's a stand up guy.

1326
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 6: Stand up guy, goes.

1327
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 3: To all the school events, goes to all the sporting events.

1328
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 3: A wonderful adoptive parent, a wonderful parent. You know, if

1329
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 3: anyone out there is supporting your kids at school, you

1330
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:31,560
Speaker 3: know how hard that is. To go to all the

1331
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 3: sports games.

1332
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:33,680
Speaker 6: So there he is.

1333
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:37,280
Speaker 3: And he had enough support in the community that actually

1334
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:42,640
Speaker 3: a go fundme was launched after John's death for his

1335
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:46,200
Speaker 3: niece and nephew and there is over two hundred and

1336
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 3: ninety thousand dollars to support them. So these poor two

1337
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:52,000
Speaker 3: kids in the wake of all this, they now live

1338
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:54,960
Speaker 3: with their grandparents. They lost both their parents and then

1339
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 3: they lost their adopted dad and now here they are.

1340
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:01,880
Speaker 2: So they two hundred thousand and Karen Reid got a million.

1341
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 6: Oh do that math out?

1342
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:10,480
Speaker 2: That hurts my heart just hearing that. That really does.

1343
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 2: And you know, again, although that's.

1344
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 4: No shade to the community that helped raise that money,

1345
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:18,520
Speaker 4: that is not that a substantial amount of money. It's

1346
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:21,920
Speaker 4: just that's how that's how divided and crazy this case is.

1347
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:24,440
Speaker 2: And I really feel for John O'Keefe's mother. You know,

1348
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 2: she took the stand. It was very powerful. It was

1349
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:29,960
Speaker 2: one of the key differences really between this trial and

1350
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:32,960
Speaker 2: the previous trial is you know, John's mom on the

1351
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:36,640
Speaker 2: stand was very eloquent and emotional. She's been there holding

1352
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:39,480
Speaker 2: her head high every step of the way. It's got

1353
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 2: to be brutal, you know, she doesn't clearly like Karen

1354
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:44,800
Speaker 2: Reid and wants her to see her in prison till

1355
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 2: the end of days. I can't quite tell if they

1356
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:50,200
Speaker 2: had a contentious relationship prior or if this is just

1357
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:54,000
Speaker 2: you know, become unbearable for mom. I can only imagine. So, yeah,

1358
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 2: he gets lost in the sauce a little bit. And again,

1359
01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:58,760
Speaker 2: some of these names, there's so many of them. It's

1360
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:02,200
Speaker 2: Brian he and Brian Rare. There's a lot of Brian's

1361
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:04,360
Speaker 2: in this story. And there's a lot of Irish names.

1362
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:08,280
Speaker 3: I know, I feel so at home.

1363
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:11,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're here half Irish too.

1364
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 3: So yeah, some of these players. So we'll just start

1365
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:19,520
Speaker 3: Michael Proctor. So he was the former lead investigator on

1366
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 3: this case, and he is the one who sent incredibly

1367
01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:29,920
Speaker 3: controversial text messages about Karen Reid to fellow officers and

1368
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 3: just other friends. He called her terrible, bad names. But

1369
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:39,120
Speaker 3: he lost his job over his handling of the Reid case. Yeah,

1370
01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:43,520
Speaker 3: and the defense says that Michael Proctor's closeness to the

1371
01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:47,960
Speaker 3: Albert family created a bias in the entire trial.

1372
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:48,479
Speaker 5: Sure.

1373
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:50,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's Michael Proctor.

1374
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:53,920
Speaker 2: And then we have the good old you know, Brian Albert,

1375
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:57,959
Speaker 2: one of the original Brian's Brian Albert is the homeowner. Again,

1376
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:00,360
Speaker 2: they were all at the same bar prior and it

1377
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:02,160
Speaker 2: was like a rowdy night. You know, we're all claiming

1378
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:05,800
Speaker 2: our irishness. You know, listen, we get it. I'm from

1379
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:08,919
Speaker 2: New York. You know, it could be a boozy late night.

1380
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:12,200
Speaker 2: Everybody's like knows each other a little too well. It's

1381
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:16,600
Speaker 2: a snow day. They've been drinking all day excessively. You know,

1382
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 2: the smallest thing could tip this over. So the allegation

1383
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:23,560
Speaker 2: from the defense is that this crew got a little rowdy.

1384
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, honestly, like you could fight over in

1385
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:28,720
Speaker 2: a drunken state over the day of the week or

1386
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:32,400
Speaker 2: which or God forbid sports comes up, right, those are

1387
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:36,000
Speaker 2: all fighting words. So whether this was an angry fight

1388
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:38,960
Speaker 2: or these were guys, you know, just messing around and

1389
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:42,480
Speaker 2: tragedy hit. The allegation is that something happened in the

1390
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:46,920
Speaker 2: Albert home and that when that happened, John o'keith died

1391
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:51,120
Speaker 2: he was somehow attacked by their dog, and then to

1392
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:53,960
Speaker 2: cover it up because they also didn't really like Karen,

1393
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:59,280
Speaker 2: evident by these texts, they brought John O'Keefe's body outside

1394
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:02,160
Speaker 2: placed him in the snow and then planted some key

1395
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:05,720
Speaker 2: evidence to make sure that it was a real sealed

1396
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:09,600
Speaker 2: problem to never see again, you know. So that's the allegation,

1397
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:12,640
Speaker 2: and there is a lot to support that, whether Karen

1398
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:14,960
Speaker 2: did or didn't do it, those guys super messed it up.

1399
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:17,719
Speaker 2: So right, that's Brian Albert. It's always been a little

1400
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:19,760
Speaker 2: odd to me, and this has been much reported on

1401
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:22,760
Speaker 2: that Brian Albert didn't come outside. When you find out

1402
01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:25,000
Speaker 2: that there's somebody at the bottom of the stream, like

1403
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:27,439
Speaker 2: if you're in law enforcement, you feel like you would

1404
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:31,360
Speaker 2: just like jump in and join and get on board

1405
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:35,040
Speaker 2: very quickly. And then also there's you know, Brian Higgins,

1406
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:38,759
Speaker 2: and he's probably the most controversial you know air quotes

1407
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:40,240
Speaker 2: character in this mix.

1408
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:42,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, Brian Higgins.

1409
01:08:42,280 --> 01:08:45,439
Speaker 3: So he's the ATF agent and he was also at

1410
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:49,000
Speaker 3: the after party and he told investigators he left around

1411
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:53,240
Speaker 3: one am to complete quote, some administrative paperwork at the

1412
01:08:53,280 --> 01:08:54,520
Speaker 3: Canton Police Department.

1413
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:55,960
Speaker 6: Body, what's that face?

1414
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:57,520
Speaker 2: That's ridiculous.

1415
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:02,479
Speaker 4: He's even drinking, He's going to office to do paperwork.

1416
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:05,519
Speaker 2: And he's also sexy texting with Aaron Reid at the bar.

1417
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 2: And basically those guys are basically saying, yeah, this relationship

1418
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 2: is probably over, meaning the relationship between John O'Keeffe and

1419
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:17,479
Speaker 2: Karen Reid. Again, I'm paraphrasing right now, but it seemed

1420
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:19,439
Speaker 2: as though things were cooling a little bit because she

1421
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:22,760
Speaker 2: was sexy texting with him, and then suddenly he's at

1422
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:26,800
Speaker 2: work doing something odd, and it seems like it's possible

1423
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:32,280
Speaker 2: that maybe these sexy texts weren't really appreciated, and maybe

1424
01:09:32,360 --> 01:09:35,639
Speaker 2: John O'Keeffe and he were kind of bouncing around each

1425
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:38,520
Speaker 2: other or tussling or something.

1426
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 3: And it's you know, what I think you're referring to

1427
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:45,040
Speaker 3: is a surveillance footage that was taken that night at

1428
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:48,360
Speaker 3: the Waterfall Bar before the party. That's right, and it's

1429
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:52,040
Speaker 3: hard to say it. It does appear tense, but you

1430
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:54,120
Speaker 3: also can't hear the right like.

1431
01:09:54,120 --> 01:09:57,360
Speaker 2: It could also you know that are just drinking too

1432
01:09:57,479 --> 01:10:01,080
Speaker 2: much and you know, kind of getting hopped. They're getting heated,

1433
01:10:01,320 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 2: you know, but it's it's nothing more just horsing around, right.

1434
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:07,320
Speaker 3: Exactly, just saying because it looks you can kind of

1435
01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 3: interpret it a few ways.

1436
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:08,840
Speaker 6: It does.

1437
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:12,360
Speaker 3: It does look tense though, for sure, but also he

1438
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 3: in addition to the texts, allegedly two weeks before John

1439
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:21,320
Speaker 3: O'Keeffe's death, Higgins said read actually this isn't allegedly. Higgins

1440
01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:26,080
Speaker 3: has said that Karen unexpectedly kissed him while Higgins was.

1441
01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:27,160
Speaker 6: At O'Keefe's house.

1442
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 2: Not so great.

1443
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:32,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's kind of the backstory to the night,

1444
01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:37,559
Speaker 3: which again very bizarrely ended when he went to the

1445
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:40,719
Speaker 3: police department at one thirty in the morning. And also,

1446
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 3: Higgins is the man who was seen on surveillance going

1447
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 3: into the department. And also that in the officer Kelly

1448
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:54,880
Speaker 3: never told authorities that she saw him along with the

1449
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:58,679
Speaker 3: Canton police chief in the garage for a really long

1450
01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:03,160
Speaker 3: time after o'keith's death death with the suv.

1451
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:05,400
Speaker 4: And that's in the sally Port that they inverted the

1452
01:11:05,479 --> 01:11:08,000
Speaker 4: video that they inverted and then they inverted the footage.

1453
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:11,600
Speaker 4: So Chris, there's an explanation for that. That's crazy to me.

1454
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:14,040
Speaker 2: This is the lexus, right. So the car that's in question,

1455
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:16,479
Speaker 2: I might add, So the car that is in question,

1456
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:18,800
Speaker 2: and it's their tail light is like the big ticket

1457
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:21,479
Speaker 2: item here. I'm sorry, it's a tail light broken from

1458
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:24,639
Speaker 2: hitting a person. Others say it was maybe a tail

1459
01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:27,960
Speaker 2: light broken by a glass that he was carrying, or

1460
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:31,160
Speaker 2: others say it was just straight up planted, because people

1461
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 2: have reported that the little size of that crack in

1462
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 2: the tail light was one way per their memory. And

1463
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:41,280
Speaker 2: then suddenly it's a really big situation with the tail light,

1464
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:43,920
Speaker 2: as if you know that was an add on or

1465
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:47,720
Speaker 2: that something was happening behind the scenes from law enforcement.

1466
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:50,439
Speaker 2: Apparently this Higgins again, this is all alleged.

1467
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:51,000
Speaker 6: We don't know.

1468
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:54,240
Speaker 2: This is what's been talked about. But when they did

1469
01:11:54,280 --> 01:11:57,040
Speaker 2: show this footage in court, it was very clear that

1470
01:11:57,120 --> 01:12:02,520
Speaker 2: the footage that the prosecution is using was actually inverted,

1471
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:07,080
Speaker 2: which had a very different outcome. When seeing it inverted,

1472
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:09,559
Speaker 2: it does look different, even though it's not why it

1473
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:12,479
Speaker 2: looks different. I don't know, Yeah, I don't know that.

1474
01:12:13,240 --> 01:12:14,439
Speaker 6: Yeah, give us a call.

1475
01:12:14,479 --> 01:12:16,960
Speaker 3: Do you know the rationale three crime?

1476
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:20,240
Speaker 2: Because yeah, yeah, to cover up is the rationale? There

1477
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:23,160
Speaker 2: is none really right, And and look, I really do

1478
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:25,560
Speaker 2: respect the idea of you know, we look out for

1479
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:27,200
Speaker 2: each other and we stick up for each other. And

1480
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:29,680
Speaker 2: you know, I was raised by all boys. Snitches do

1481
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:33,080
Speaker 2: get stitches, and there's a code of honor, and law

1482
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:35,519
Speaker 2: enforcement really puts their lives on the line. But to

1483
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:38,439
Speaker 2: what end right, because this seems as though it got

1484
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:42,000
Speaker 2: real weird, and the personal connections between the lead investigator

1485
01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:44,439
Speaker 2: any of these guys at the scene of the crime,

1486
01:12:44,720 --> 01:12:45,679
Speaker 2: it's super muddy.

1487
01:12:45,880 --> 01:12:46,479
Speaker 6: It's muddy.

1488
01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 3: I'm going to go with the clear mind and really

1489
01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:52,280
Speaker 3: just absorb the closing arguments.

1490
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:55,360
Speaker 2: So we actually have a couple of little emails that

1491
01:12:55,479 --> 01:12:58,360
Speaker 2: just came through, So a listener question of sort court,

1492
01:12:58,439 --> 01:12:58,880
Speaker 2: what do you have?

1493
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:03,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is from Carl. He writes, I'm glad Brandon

1494
01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:06,160
Speaker 3: Burdeaux got his day in court. However, I can't help

1495
01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:11,080
Speaker 3: but feel that, as valid Laurie is already serving several

1496
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:14,559
Speaker 3: consecutive life sentences, that the outcome of this trial didn't

1497
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:17,320
Speaker 3: really matter for her, as it would have no real

1498
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:19,240
Speaker 3: impact on the rest of her life. Do you guys

1499
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 3: think it makes sense to keep piling on life sentences?

1500
01:13:22,720 --> 01:13:22,920
Speaker 6: You know?

1501
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:25,040
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, I think it's a I think it's

1502
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:27,920
Speaker 3: a really valid question, and I think the answer is

1503
01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:30,680
Speaker 3: also an emphatic yes, Brandon.

1504
01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 2: Because I kind of think it's a waste of time.

1505
01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:35,679
Speaker 2: What am I don't ignorant?

1506
01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:40,160
Speaker 3: So please, Brandon Burdeaux had his day in court, and

1507
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:45,280
Speaker 3: she was found guilty of conspiracy to try and murder

1508
01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:49,320
Speaker 3: him and he and his family does Yeah, I feel

1509
01:13:49,360 --> 01:13:50,759
Speaker 3: that really strong stuff.

1510
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:53,880
Speaker 4: And let's say this is not going to happen. But

1511
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:56,360
Speaker 4: if it did, what if something in Idaho happened in

1512
01:13:56,400 --> 01:13:57,640
Speaker 4: her stuff got overturned?

1513
01:13:57,840 --> 01:14:00,600
Speaker 2: Right? Meaning these multiple sentences is you could do an

1514
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:03,120
Speaker 2: appeal maybe on one of them, and then thankfully you

1515
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:04,920
Speaker 2: have this other one to back it up. You know.

1516
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:08,760
Speaker 2: Interesting aside about the nephew in law that was in

1517
01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:11,760
Speaker 2: Core today who's now she's found guilty for. There was

1518
01:14:11,800 --> 01:14:16,160
Speaker 2: apparently another attempt on her current husband, Chad Dave Bell,

1519
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:19,920
Speaker 2: also behind bars his wife Tammy Day Bell, who was

1520
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:23,680
Speaker 2: also killed by these two nuts. She also had an

1521
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:26,479
Speaker 2: attempt on her life as well. She remembers there being

1522
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:29,920
Speaker 2: something fishy that happened, and she may have dodged death

1523
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:32,320
Speaker 2: once and she had a sick feeling about it. And

1524
01:14:32,360 --> 01:14:35,200
Speaker 2: then this other incident happened with this niece in the

1525
01:14:35,479 --> 01:14:39,519
Speaker 2: niece's now ex husband that was right around that same time.

1526
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:43,680
Speaker 2: So again, imagine this little world that Lori Valo da

1527
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:46,720
Speaker 2: Bell was living in. She had frankly maybe lost her

1528
01:14:46,760 --> 01:14:49,920
Speaker 2: mind and was in fully in love and believed that

1529
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:52,799
Speaker 2: the end was near and in her head, her family,

1530
01:14:52,880 --> 01:14:55,679
Speaker 2: the kids, they were all turning into zombies. That's something

1531
01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:58,799
Speaker 2: that she was saying very outwardly that, oh my goodness,

1532
01:14:58,800 --> 01:15:02,800
Speaker 2: and Charles, her now deceased ex husband, he was also

1533
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:05,600
Speaker 2: turning into a zombie her words, not anybody else's. So

1534
01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:08,120
Speaker 2: she was seeing the world through a very specific lens.

1535
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:10,640
Speaker 2: And by the way, at the time, I didn't believe it.

1536
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:13,599
Speaker 2: I thought she was way too lovely to ever commit

1537
01:15:13,640 --> 01:15:16,960
Speaker 2: a crime nearly as Grizzy. That's why I'm so riled up. Yeah,

1538
01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:19,559
Speaker 2: I feel duped, I really feel oh wow.

1539
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1540
01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:22,760
Speaker 2: And when you look at her now, she actually looks like,

1541
01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:25,280
Speaker 2: in my humble opinion, she looks scary, like.

1542
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:28,040
Speaker 4: When I said, the news reports and them walking through

1543
01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:30,519
Speaker 4: like a parking lot in Hawaii, just completely ignoring the

1544
01:15:30,600 --> 01:15:31,760
Speaker 4: questions from the reporters.

1545
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:32,760
Speaker 2: I need in the world.

1546
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 6: I knew it.

1547
01:15:33,640 --> 01:15:37,200
Speaker 2: She's a man could do that. Nobody could just have

1548
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:39,880
Speaker 2: your kids missing and the whole country is looking for it,

1549
01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:42,400
Speaker 2: and you go get your nails done for your wedding

1550
01:15:42,439 --> 01:15:45,960
Speaker 2: that you're planning in these upcoming days. Wild anyway, not

1551
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:48,840
Speaker 2: to belabor it, but again, forensics, we have a big

1552
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:51,479
Speaker 2: day on that too, because Joseph Scott Morgan is also

1553
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:55,439
Speaker 2: a big, you know, stryballo day person. Anyway, thank you,

1554
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:58,040
Speaker 2: it's been such a great night. We'll see you Sunday

1555
01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:01,320
Speaker 2: True Crime Tonight where we're talking true crime all the time.

1556
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:02,559
Speaker 2: Have a great evening.