WEBVTT - What exactly is stoicism? 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.240 Hey, everybody, it's us Josh and Chuck, and we want 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:06.200 you to know we are coming somewhere near you. We're 0:00:06.320 --> 0:00:10.320 sure if you live in North America this year, that's right, 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:12.800 We're going on tour, and uh, why don't we just 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:16.600 rattle through these dates? Okay? Uh? Toronto August eight at 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.919 the Day and Fourth Music Hall, Chicago August nine, the 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:22.599 next day at Harris Theater. Then we are taking some 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:25.720 time off to recover after that two day grind. We're 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:30.760 eating Vancouver the Vogue Theater September twenty six, followed by Minneapolis. 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:33.360 We're gonna be at the Pantageous Theater again on September 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:37.480 that is correct, yep. And then Austin Chuck on October 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:41.680 tenth of the Paramount Theater, Yes, and very special show 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:45.839 and Lawrence Kansas at Liberty Hall on October eleventh, yep. 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:48.720 And then we're gonna do a three night stand October 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:53.840 two at the Bellhouse in Brooklyn, New York. And then Chuck, 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:56.560 take it home. Uh, well take it home literally, because 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:59.560 we are finishing up November four right here in Atlanta 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:02.280 at the Bucket Theater and this is a very special 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:05.560 benefit show. Uh, and all the Proceeds will be going 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:09.160 to Lifeline Animal Project of Atlanta in the National Down 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:13.120 Syndrome Society YEP and for more information in too buy tickets, 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:16.760 just go to s y s K live dot com. 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:20.240 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:29.240 dot com. Hey, welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:34.960 with Charles W. Chuck Bryant, guest producer Noel. Jerry's Jerry 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:38.840 has been out a lot lately, Chuck. Have you noticed? Uh? No, No, 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:42.640 I haven't. Of course, Jerry's got big life things going on, 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:47.080 does buying and selling houses. She's like a real estate mogul, 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:52.880 visiting them all, doing all sorts of stuff. Uh, we're 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:58.600 just a couple of deep thinkers hanging out on the stoa. Yeah, 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:05.680 the typically what is it this? So? Uh? Did you 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:09.239 practice the word this pronunciation at all? I tried to 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:13.360 pronounce a lot of this um but you know ancient Greek, 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:17.160 you know the phrase it's all Greek to me? Yeah, 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:19.280 And it comes from not being able to pronounce these 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:26.160 things quite literal, the the stoa poikili. I think that's 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:30.160 probably pretty close, man. So can I start this with 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:35.000 a couple of quick thoughts? Sure? First of all, uh, 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:39.320 I took a I took four different philosophy quizzes before 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:43.760 we recorded, like like what kind of philosophy do you 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:46.480 subscribe to? Type quiz? Yeah, you know the ones that 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:49.239 are super accurate, right, because they can figure that out 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:51.600 in eight to fifteen questions. Sure, and then you can 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:55.239 move on and find out what muppet you are. So 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:58.120 here's here's my result here for the first one that 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:03.760 was epicurean. Uh, the second one existentialism, alright, third one 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:10.640 atheist existentialist. In the fourth Nietzsche slash stoic. Nietzsche was 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:13.600 a huge critic of stoicism. I'm surprised they put those 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:16.920 two together. Well that that is chuck though. You know 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:21.480 what I'm saying, Yeah, you're you're contradiction in terms yin 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:23.959 and yang. Well I am that. The reason why I 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.480 took these is because when I was doing the research 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:31.359 on stoicism, Um, I found me. I found myself a 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:34.240 lot of times going yep, yep totally, and then a 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:37.240 lot of times going no, that's really not me. Same here, 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:40.680 same here. And I think, um, the even the Stoics 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:45.120 from back in the day realized that there were very few, 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:49.160 very very few actual what they called sages walking around 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:54.840 stoic stages who really fulfilled every aspect of this to 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:58.680 a t. And I think that. I think one of 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:01.800 the reasons why Stoa is m today is making a 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:04.720 comeback and it's so appealing is because, well there's two reasons. 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:09.640 One more than um kind of a naval gazing type 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:12.360 philosophy where you're trying to figure out the nature of 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:16.200 existence or something like that. It's more a blueprint for 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:21.559 existing day to day in a in a useful, happy way. 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:28.359 And then secondly, um, it's uh, you can kind of 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:31.000 pick and choose. It's almost like a buffet. You can 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:34.040 pick and choose what aspects of it you want to 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:37.760 adopt or use. And no, you know, Greek ghost is 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:40.560 going to come along and spear you in the face, 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:47.760 but with a trident right punch. Uh yeah, And I 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:50.279 think that's I mean, first of all, the Age of 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:55.600 Reason fascinates me to no end um. And second, I've 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:59.839 kind of wanted to cover some of the great philosophies 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.080 of all time. This sounds like a good start, well 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:05.200 it is, but it's just kind of daunting because people 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:08.680 spend like that's their life's work, you know, and and 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:11.840 to for us to try and summarize any of them 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:13.880 in thirty to forty five minutes is kind of like, 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:16.840 you know, I don't know what philosophy. You would liken 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:22.040 that to foolishism. Duncis, m uh, that's what we do. 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:24.320 You know. Well, let's how about this. If this one 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:26.320 goes well, maybe we'll take it as a sign that 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:28.400 we can tackle some other ones. But you're absolutely right, 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:32.760 Like even the even just like say the Internet Encyclopedia 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:36.080 of Philosophy, which is meant you know, it's it's it's sharp, 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:39.200 and it's detailed, and it's exhaustive, but it's also clearly 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:43.520 meant for lay people interested in philosophy. Right, It's just 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:49.039 just this just stoicism. It is so involved that it's 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:52.440 not possible for us to like really capture all of it, 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:56.479 even get in an overview, you know, um or giving 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:59.120 it just hitting the highlights. We can't possibly hit all 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:01.240 the highlights. It's just too much to it. And that's 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:04.160 just stoicism. I still say it's worth talking about though, 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:07.159 just because it's so interesting. So if I get up 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:09.360 in the middle, you're gonna pull me back. Just keep 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:14.960 going well, I like the Urban Dictionary definition um stoic 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:17.960 is someone who does not give a beep about the 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:20.120 stupid things in this world that most people care so 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:22.760 much about. Stoics do have emotions, but only for the 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:24.760 things in this world that really matter. They are the 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:28.440 most real people alive. And then in their little example, 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:30.720 as a group of kids sitting by the porch, stoic 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:35.240 walks by one kind says something very mean, Hey, you're 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:38.120 a blankety blank and you blank blank and the stoics 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:40.840 is good for you and keeps going right. It's a 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:42.960 part of me really like I hear that, and I'm like, man, 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:47.280 I am so that person on so many levels. But 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:50.520 then sometimes I'm totally not, and I think what the 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:53.440 difference is or what matters is well, it depends on 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:58.960 if they say something that matters to you or or 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:01.240 if something does matter it or to you. Like I 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:04.960 might get really riled up about some stuff that would 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:07.720 make you not stoic that doesn't rile anyone anyone else up, 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:10.920 But I also some things that really make other people 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:13.600 I rate. I'm just like man, can't change it. It 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:16.720 is what it is, uh, And I only can get 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:19.160 upset about the things I can change. Yeah, if you 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:23.760 could apply that to everything, you'd be pretty pretty high 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:28.400 up there in the stoic Um pantheon. I'd be a 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:33.560 stoic UHT five star general pretty much, five finger punch guy. 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:37.640 All right, so we beat around the bush. I mean, 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:39.600 that was a pretty good definition actually, even though it's 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:42.240 from the Urban Dictionary. But um, we should say we 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:45.240 picked that one up from a On article why Stoicism 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:47.320 is one of the best mine hacks ever devised. That 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:50.080 was a good one by Larry Wallace. Yeah, you did 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:52.320 a good job kind of giving an overview of the 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:54.760 whole thing. I think Larry Wallace is one of the 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:58.600 great modern Stoicists. Maybe there's plenty of them running around 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.080 these days. Yeah, but we're I mean, we'll we'll go 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:04.520 back in time and study the beginnings of Stoicism because 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:07.400 we're talking about like you hear the word stoic today 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:10.720 and it means it was taken from this, but it's 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:13.840 kind of someone like sort of a grim face. Stoic 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:18.120 doesn't say much, um, and that that's not what stoicism 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:20.920 And they say in our article several times with a 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:25.440 capitalist really is all about? Right, Yeah, to these days, 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.920 people typically, or I should say these days, up to 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:33.320 about three years ago, people thought of stoics as somebody 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:35.200 who could watch their dog get hit by a car, 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:37.800 and you know their reaction was to raise their chin 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:39.920 a little higher up in the area, you know, like 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:44.120 just grin and bear it. Um. As Larry put it, Larry, 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:47.240 where I'm on a first name basis with Lady Wallace Layer, 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:51.800 that it's a philosophy of grim endurance, tolerating rather than 0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:57.360 transcending life's agonies and adversities, just kind of trudging through um, 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:02.040 just taking hit after hit from life as it deals 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:04.720 deals them to you, right, that that was the idea 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:07.400 of stoicism. You can kind of like it's not like 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:13.360 that's just radically unlike actual stoicism, but it's an outsider's 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:17.560 interpretation of what the stoics are actually doing, what's actually 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:20.560 going on, the purpose of the whole thing. That outsider's 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:24.160 view that doesn't really fully understand. It became the popular 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:27.240 view until recently, until it started to kind of gain 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:30.680 some traction lately. Yeah, And you know, throughout the years, 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:35.160 stoicism has informed some religions. Uh, these days, there are 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:40.559 a lot of atheists, their stoics. Um, but I like 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:43.920 how our article says it. Uh is, above all, it 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:48.720 teaches the value of emotional control in living one's life fully. Yeah. 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:51.240 So here's the basis of it. The basis of it is, 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:59.560 if you can um detach yourself from emotional responses to things, 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:03.199 then something that comes along, whether good or bad, is 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:06.840 not gonna get your goat. Stoicism is all about protecting 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:09.920 your goat and not letting anything get it. And the 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:12.400 way that the way that they do that is by saying, 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:15.840 there are very few things that I can control in life, 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:19.559 and everything that I can't control, I'm not gonna get 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:23.480 up riled up over, you know, lose my job. Oh well, 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:25.679 it happens. It doesn't mean I'm any less of a person. 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:27.680 I just wanted to go out and get another job. 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:31.040 Dog gets hit by a car. Well that's really awful 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:33.839 because I really like that dog. But I'll just go 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:36.240 get another dog, or maybe I'll just learn to live 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:39.120 without the dog. Maybe I was becoming too attached to 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:42.840 the dog. Things like that. That's stoicism. But the whole 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:45.480 point of it is it's not just to get your goat, 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:49.480 it's or to protect your goat from being gotten. It's 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:56.040 about UM living a moral life where you're a very 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.080 good human being. And the idea is that the only 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:01.800 way to really do that is through things like rationalism 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:06.600 and UM investigating the universe and being understanding of knowledge 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:12.480 and then UM pursuing ethics, specific ethics, UM. And then 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:16.560 they figured out the best way to do that is dispassionately. Yeah. 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:20.880 I think my bumper sticker would say, uh onboard colin, 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:26.599 part time stoicis full time dreamer. Okay, that is that 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:30.719 is a specific Yeah, right, bumper sticker. I used to 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:32.400 have a lot of bumper stickers in high school and 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:36.240 now I loathe them so much. Really, what did you have? Like, Oh, 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:40.000 I had an old Volkswagen Beetle and that was my 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:42.679 family actually bought brand new in nine eight and was 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:46.719 passed down kid the kid, the kid, and it was 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:49.160 it was very cool. I thought at the time, well, 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:51.360 it is cool. I love those old Beetles. But I 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:53.240 just went through on those phases where I was like, 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:56.880 you know, here's a Native Americans saying and here's something 0:11:56.920 --> 0:11:59.920 about mother nature and this Bob Marley had this to say, 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:03.439 and just yeah, I was from those and now I 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.439 see those cars with all the things, and I'm just like, 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:15.640 shut up, nobody cares. Yeah, for sure. I mean, did 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:18.480 you have a three eleven sticker? No? This was pre 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:21.319 three eleven? Actually, okay, got you? So did your mom 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:22.599 come out and be like, what did you do to 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:28.040 the family heirloom? Put stickers over? No, it's funny that 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:31.559 that car had a the rear floorboard was missing on 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:34.720 one side. My dad had a car like that in Malibu, 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:39.160 so you could like see the street. Now that I 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:41.120 looked back, he didn't even have a piece of wood. 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:44.080 Now that I look back, I'm like, that was extraordinarily 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:46.559 irresponsible to be driving around with kids in the back 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:51.720 seat with the with the street visible. Yeah. I love 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:55.040 your dad, Just like watch your feet kids. Yeah, easy, 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:58.599 does it? Uh? Alright, So let's you want to go 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:00.199 back and talk about the history a little bit. No, 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:03.000 I want to keep beating around the book. All right, 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.440 Let's get in the way back machine and we need 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:08.880 to really juice it up because we're going way back. 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:13.040 Got some kerosene, got some banana peels, and got some 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:16.480 airplane glue. But that's just for us, that's right, Because 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:25.880 it's a long ride. H ancient Greece is where we're headed, uh, 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:29.319 to the time of the great philosophers. And um, like 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:31.839 we said earlier, sitting here on the stoa, that was 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:34.280 a joke, but it wasn't. And you you, you know 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.760 you said stoa, You're gonna try it again. The stoa 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:41.079 POI Kiley, yes, or painted porch is what it means. 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:43.360 And that was a public space in Athens, Greece. It's 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:46.040 like a portico, yeah, where where people would hang out 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:48.719 and talk and chew the fat. And that's what I 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:51.560 love about this time was people would just they were 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:55.959 just alive with ideas, these philosophical ideas of trying to 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.800 figure it all out. Yeah, but don't you think like 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:04.040 everyone time you just be like everybody, shut up, I 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:09.400 gotta do something useful, yeah talking Yeah, No, but I 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:12.679 I I agree with you. Overall. It was a pretty 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:17.679 thrilling time. Did you take philosophy in college at all? No? No, 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:20.840 I didn't. Um, I really did not. I don't think 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:22.800 I took a single philosophy class, now that I think 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:25.000 about it. I even a survey. I took the one 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:27.160 kind of general class. I guess it was the one 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:29.360 on one and I actually made an A, which I 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:31.720 didn't make a ton of a's in college. And I 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:34.680 remember at the time kind of the same thing about 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:37.920 half the class. I was like, man, so fascinating, And 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:40.160 then then the other half I was just like, oh, man, 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:44.480 what a waste of time. I do something useful, like 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:50.680 volunteer for a charity, go makes something out of wood, anything. Alright, 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:53.640 So back to the stoa. We're on this painted porch, 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:57.280 this portico as it were. People are everywhere running their 0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:01.840 mouths about what they think is important. Uh. And then 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:06.880 this dude wanders up Zeno of Sidium, Yeah, who had 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:10.360 recently been shipwrecked. And there are other zenos. Not to 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:13.440 be confused. I know it is confusing. There should be 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.480 one zeno. There can be in all of in all 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:19.040 of history, there were zenos of other things. But this 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:21.680 is Zeno of Sidium. And you're right, he was shipwrecked 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:25.720 and he was wandering around after a trip from Cyprus. 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:29.480 Did you say we're in Athens. Oh yeah, not Georgia, No, 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:32.400 although we did our fair shriff sitting around on porches 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:36.720 talking nonsense there as well. But that's a porch porch, yea, 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:40.600 not a Greek porch And so Zeno took a little 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.640 bit of insight from the cynics and then eventually said, 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:46.600 you know what, I could my kind of forming my 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:50.680 own thoughts here, and uh, I think everyone else is 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.600 doing it. I have my own philosophy. Yeah, and it's 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:57.160 called Stoicism, Yeah, named after later later, I don't think 0:15:57.240 --> 0:15:59.160 he'd called it that. I'm not sure he'd probably called 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:02.320 it zeno Is. They're like, yeah, it sucks, We're gonna 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:06.200 call it Stoicism after the porch. But this is I mean, 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:09.160 like the Stoicism very quickly became one of the big 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:14.400 of philosophies at the time, and it rivaled some of 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:17.680 the philosophies that it grew out of, like Socratic philosophy 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:22.840 and like you said, cynicism the cynics, And actually, if 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:26.960 you look at Stoicism, it's kind of a compromise between 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:33.280 um Socrates or so creates as Bill and Ted call them, philosophy, 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.480 which was that to lead a good life. And this 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:39.680 was the point of all of the philosophies at this time, 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:42.600 during this Age of Reason, was achieving what was called 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:47.240 you daimonia, and daimonia is a life worth living. It's 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:52.280 thriving it's flourishing, it's being happy, like real happiness. Right. 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:55.640 That was the pursuit of all of these different ideas 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.000 that were floating around at the time, was how to 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:02.280 achieve that. Socrates had the idea that you achieve that 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:06.800 through like twelve cardinal virtues, and some of them were 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:09.840 things you could cultivate in yourself, like courage, a sense 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:12.800 of justice, that kind of stuff. But then there are 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:15.640 other ones too that had like everything to do with luck, 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.919 Like being good looking was one of them. Right, if 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:21.119 you were good, look, if you were ugly, sorry, buddy, 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:24.640 you could never achieve you daimonia right on the other 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.040 end of the spectrum where the cynics and the cynics 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:33.320 believed that earthly trappings like wealth and fame and glory 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:37.800 anything like that was the path to ruin, and that 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:41.080 the true path to you daimonia was living simply and 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:45.240 living in poverty. And so Zeno comes along and here's 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:47.840 all these and as he's formulating his own ideas, he's like, 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:51.040 Socrates makes some sense over here, and so do the 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:53.320 cynics a little bit, but I'm gonna put them together. 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.160 And that's where Stoicism came from. It was a compromise 0:17:56.240 --> 0:18:00.560 between the two where you live a life of of 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:05.280 pursuing you damonia through these virtues. Four virtues Um. I 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:11.760 think there's justice, courage, wisdom, and then temperance. Right, So 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:14.720 you're practicing those four virtues. So that's that's kind of 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:19.960 a nod to Socrates. Um. And you don't have to 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:24.000 live in poverty. You can be wealthy, because the stoicism 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:29.680 is anything, it's wealthy. People who got into philosophy um 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:32.479 that weren't quite sure how to feel about being wealthy, 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:34.960 to say, to kind of come to the point that, 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:37.680 like happen, money is not a bad thing, right, right, 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:42.359 And so what they came up with was, um, sure 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:46.200 you can be wealthy, and that's okay. You can prefer 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:48.840 to be wealthy, but you just can't be attached to it. 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:51.879 You can't desire to be wealthy because you can't control 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:55.080 being wealthy, and if you pursue being wealthy, you're pursuing 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:57.320 something beyond your control. So if you just happen to 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:00.440 be wealthy, that's great. You can be happy with it, 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:03.280 but also be prepared to lose it at any given time. 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:07.800 And that's a big part of stoicism. Yeah, I think 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:10.359 it's so funny though, to think about, like thousands of 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:14.200 years ago in ancient Greece, like they spent so much 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:17.800 time thinking about living this all these schools of thought 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:23.280 of living this life, so like, uh, putting so much 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:26.399 thought into living to life to its fullest and all 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:31.159 the different ways that they defined it. And eventually, like 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:34.320 over the years, like as recently as like the generation 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:38.359 of our parents and grandparents the United States, like the 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:40.960 philosophy of life was like you just go to work 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:43.560 and you work hard until you die, and that's the 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:48.479 only thing that matters. Like all that stuff is garbage. Yeah, well, 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:50.560 I think that's one of the reasons why stoicism is 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:54.840 is becoming appealing Again, is this idea that like work 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:57.800 seems to be kind of going through a weird transformation, 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:01.200 doesn't it, Like it's not like that anymore? Like that 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:05.080 that that that ethic is still around for sure, But like, 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:07.680 how many people do you know work from home? Like 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:12.600 almost entirely a lot a lot, And that's fairly new. 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:16.200 So I wonder if like this changing work dynamic is 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:19.200 leading to this resurgence and stoicism that you can't find 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:22.280 happiness through other stuff. I mean, part of me thinks 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:24.280 this is all like super worthwhile, and part of me 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:28.280 thinks and it's sort of indulgent to sin and a 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:32.240 bit like you said, naval gayzy and like put just 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:36.320 start practicing good things instead of sitting around thinking about 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:39.520 the best way to live life. Well, we'll talk about 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:42.119 criticisms of them later on, but I think you hit 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:44.360 a big one though, Chuck, was the idea that it's 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:50.040 self indulgent because it it demands introspection almost every moment 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:52.720 of every day. You want to take a break and 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:54.720 then get back to it. Yeah, I gotta, I gotta 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:57.880 get my head together. Where's that airplane glue here? You get? 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:26.480 All right? Nothing like airplane glue to get your head 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:30.200 back on straight. Is just kidding, of course. Everyone Sure, 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:33.280 we're smart guys. We don't do that kind of thing. No, 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:36.680 it's pretty tough to be smart and huff model airplane glue. 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:39.480 It's pretty you're pretty much making a choice between that 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:42.040 and being smart. That's what they teach you early on. 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:44.240 You want to go somewhere life, you want to huff 0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:47.280 airplane glue. It's the one thing Nancy Reagan didn't lie about, 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:57.159 all right, So Zeno got things going, um, peace of 0:21:57.240 --> 0:21:59.200 mind that comes with living a life of virtue in 0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:01.880 accordance with re in in nature. And then other dudes 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:04.119 got on boards, and of course got on boards, got 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:06.720 on board, and they were all dudes back then because 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:09.760 everything was from the man's perspective. Uh, I just want 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:12.600 to point that out, Yeah, because it's changed so dramatically 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:20.240 since then. But some of the other early stoicist Cleanthes Kato, Kato, 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:25.160 the younger, elder younger, right, Kato, the calin oh man, 0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:27.720 I forgot about him. I'm not sure which Kato. I 0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:31.560 think it's the younger. Yeah, we'll find out from two 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:35.239 people who email into let us. Uh Seneca. And then 0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:40.800 a very important stoicis Uh. Well, I'm gonna pronounce it 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:49.440 epic epic epic tectus. Epic tetus sounds like a vaccine shot. 0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:52.840 It does E P I C T E H t 0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:55.920 U s. It's the C going into a T that's 0:22:55.960 --> 0:22:59.600 getting you. It's just epic tetius or epic tetis. I 0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:01.960 think I pictitis is what we should go with. I 0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:04.160 want another see in there. I wanted to be epithectus, 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:09.240 but it's not. No it's not alright, So, uh, don't 0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:11.760 forget Marcus Aurelius. Man. Oh well, sure, I mean he 0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:13.800 comes a little bit later, like he was. He was 0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:19.960 the ruler of Anthentt. Man, what is my problem today? 0:23:20.640 --> 0:23:23.040 It's okay, man, Everyone knew what you meant. He was 0:23:23.080 --> 0:23:26.320 the philosopher king and that was when Stoicism was kind 0:23:26.359 --> 0:23:31.159 of the most popular thing going. Yeah. Yeah. Apparently they 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:34.879 moved from Athens to Rome, which I didn't realize this. 0:23:35.000 --> 0:23:39.800 I always had the idea um that Rome venerated Hellenistic 0:23:39.920 --> 0:23:45.560 Greece hundreds of years after basically the Greek civilization had 0:23:45.680 --> 0:23:48.199 had just kind of, you know, gone into a bit 0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:51.840 of a twilight or had gone out of its heyday. No, 0:23:52.040 --> 0:23:55.760 there was total cross pollination, including some of these early 0:23:55.840 --> 0:24:00.040 Stoics who traveled from Athens to Rome, and basically with 0:24:00.560 --> 0:24:04.280 that move transferred the seed of philosophy from Athens to Rome, 0:24:04.359 --> 0:24:07.400 from Greek to Rome, to Um to Rome, from Greece 0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:09.479 to Rome. I didn't realize that they were They were 0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:13.119 actually like cross pollinating one another at the time. Did 0:24:13.200 --> 0:24:16.400 you know that? I think I recalled that from deep 0:24:16.440 --> 0:24:21.600 in my college memory. Banks nice. Uh, so Epitetus Tedis 0:24:21.800 --> 0:24:26.439 man Um. He had a big role in the Stoic movement. 0:24:26.800 --> 0:24:30.760 He was a former slave um, which kind of makes 0:24:30.760 --> 0:24:35.119 sense and for in terms of Stoicism, he almost almost 0:24:35.200 --> 0:24:41.639