1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,240 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's us Josh and Chuck, and we want 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: you to know we are coming somewhere near you. We're 3 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 1: sure if you live in North America this year, that's right, 4 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: We're going on tour, and uh, why don't we just 5 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 1: rattle through these dates? Okay? Uh? Toronto August eight at 6 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: the Day and Fourth Music Hall, Chicago August nine, the 7 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: next day at Harris Theater. Then we are taking some 8 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: time off to recover after that two day grind. We're 9 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: eating Vancouver the Vogue Theater September twenty six, followed by Minneapolis. 10 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: We're gonna be at the Pantageous Theater again on September 11 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,480 Speaker 1: that is correct, yep. And then Austin Chuck on October 12 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: tenth of the Paramount Theater, Yes, and very special show 13 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: and Lawrence Kansas at Liberty Hall on October eleventh, yep. 14 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: And then we're gonna do a three night stand October 15 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: two at the Bellhouse in Brooklyn, New York. And then Chuck, 16 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: take it home. Uh, well take it home literally, because 17 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: we are finishing up November four right here in Atlanta 18 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: at the Bucket Theater and this is a very special 19 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: benefit show. Uh, and all the Proceeds will be going 20 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: to Lifeline Animal Project of Atlanta in the National Down 21 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: Syndrome Society YEP and for more information in too buy tickets, 22 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 1: just go to s y s K live dot com. 23 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works 24 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark 25 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 1: with Charles W. Chuck Bryant, guest producer Noel. Jerry's Jerry 26 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: has been out a lot lately, Chuck. Have you noticed? Uh? No, No, 27 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: I haven't. Of course, Jerry's got big life things going on, 28 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: does buying and selling houses. She's like a real estate mogul, 29 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: visiting them all, doing all sorts of stuff. Uh, we're 30 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: just a couple of deep thinkers hanging out on the stoa. Yeah, 31 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: the typically what is it this? So? Uh? Did you 32 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:09,239 Speaker 1: practice the word this pronunciation at all? I tried to 33 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: pronounce a lot of this um but you know ancient Greek, 34 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: you know the phrase it's all Greek to me? Yeah, 35 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: And it comes from not being able to pronounce these 36 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: things quite literal, the the stoa poikili. I think that's 37 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: probably pretty close, man. So can I start this with 38 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: a couple of quick thoughts? Sure? First of all, uh, 39 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: I took a I took four different philosophy quizzes before 40 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: we recorded, like like what kind of philosophy do you 41 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: subscribe to? Type quiz? Yeah, you know the ones that 42 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,239 Speaker 1: are super accurate, right, because they can figure that out 43 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: in eight to fifteen questions. Sure, and then you can 44 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:55,239 Speaker 1: move on and find out what muppet you are. So 45 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: here's here's my result here for the first one that 46 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: was epicurean. Uh, the second one existentialism, alright, third one 47 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 1: atheist existentialist. In the fourth Nietzsche slash stoic. Nietzsche was 48 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: a huge critic of stoicism. I'm surprised they put those 49 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 1: two together. Well that that is chuck though. You know 50 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Yeah, you're you're contradiction in terms yin 51 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:23,959 Speaker 1: and yang. Well I am that. The reason why I 52 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: took these is because when I was doing the research 53 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 1: on stoicism, Um, I found me. I found myself a 54 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: lot of times going yep, yep totally, and then a 55 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: lot of times going no, that's really not me. Same here, 56 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: same here. And I think, um, the even the Stoics 57 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: from back in the day realized that there were very few, 58 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: very very few actual what they called sages walking around 59 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: stoic stages who really fulfilled every aspect of this to 60 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: a t. And I think that. I think one of 61 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: the reasons why Stoa is m today is making a 62 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: comeback and it's so appealing is because, well there's two reasons. 63 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: One more than um kind of a naval gazing type 64 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: philosophy where you're trying to figure out the nature of 65 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: existence or something like that. It's more a blueprint for 66 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:21,559 Speaker 1: existing day to day in a in a useful, happy way. 67 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:28,359 Speaker 1: And then secondly, um, it's uh, you can kind of 68 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: pick and choose. It's almost like a buffet. You can 69 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 1: pick and choose what aspects of it you want to 70 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: adopt or use. And no, you know, Greek ghost is 71 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: going to come along and spear you in the face, 72 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: but with a trident right punch. Uh yeah, And I 73 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 1: think that's I mean, first of all, the Age of 74 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 1: Reason fascinates me to no end um. And second, I've 75 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: kind of wanted to cover some of the great philosophies 76 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: of all time. This sounds like a good start, well 77 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: it is, but it's just kind of daunting because people 78 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: spend like that's their life's work, you know, and and 79 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 1: to for us to try and summarize any of them 80 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: in thirty to forty five minutes is kind of like, 81 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know what philosophy. You would liken 82 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: that to foolishism. Duncis, m uh, that's what we do. 83 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: You know. Well, let's how about this. If this one 84 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: goes well, maybe we'll take it as a sign that 85 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: we can tackle some other ones. But you're absolutely right, 86 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: Like even the even just like say the Internet Encyclopedia 87 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: of Philosophy, which is meant you know, it's it's it's sharp, 88 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: and it's detailed, and it's exhaustive, but it's also clearly 89 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: meant for lay people interested in philosophy. Right, It's just 90 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 1: just this just stoicism. It is so involved that it's 91 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: not possible for us to like really capture all of it, 92 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 1: even get in an overview, you know, um or giving 93 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: it just hitting the highlights. We can't possibly hit all 94 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: the highlights. It's just too much to it. And that's 95 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: just stoicism. I still say it's worth talking about though, 96 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: just because it's so interesting. So if I get up 97 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: in the middle, you're gonna pull me back. Just keep 98 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: going well, I like the Urban Dictionary definition um stoic 99 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: is someone who does not give a beep about the 100 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: stupid things in this world that most people care so 101 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: much about. Stoics do have emotions, but only for the 102 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: things in this world that really matter. They are the 103 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: most real people alive. And then in their little example, 104 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 1: as a group of kids sitting by the porch, stoic 105 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: walks by one kind says something very mean, Hey, you're 106 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: a blankety blank and you blank blank and the stoics 107 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 1: is good for you and keeps going right. It's a 108 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: part of me really like I hear that, and I'm like, man, 109 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 1: I am so that person on so many levels. But 110 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: then sometimes I'm totally not, and I think what the 111 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: difference is or what matters is well, it depends on 112 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: if they say something that matters to you or or 113 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: if something does matter it or to you. Like I 114 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: might get really riled up about some stuff that would 115 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 1: make you not stoic that doesn't rile anyone anyone else up, 116 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: But I also some things that really make other people 117 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: I rate. I'm just like man, can't change it. It 118 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: is what it is, uh, And I only can get 119 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: upset about the things I can change. Yeah, if you 120 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: could apply that to everything, you'd be pretty pretty high 121 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: up there in the stoic Um pantheon. I'd be a 122 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: stoic UHT five star general pretty much, five finger punch guy. 123 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: All right, so we beat around the bush. I mean, 124 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: that was a pretty good definition actually, even though it's 125 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: from the Urban Dictionary. But um, we should say we 126 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: picked that one up from a On article why Stoicism 127 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: is one of the best mine hacks ever devised. That 128 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: was a good one by Larry Wallace. Yeah, you did 129 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: a good job kind of giving an overview of the 130 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: whole thing. I think Larry Wallace is one of the 131 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: great modern Stoicists. Maybe there's plenty of them running around 132 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: these days. Yeah, but we're I mean, we'll we'll go 133 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: back in time and study the beginnings of Stoicism because 134 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: we're talking about like you hear the word stoic today 135 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: and it means it was taken from this, but it's 136 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: kind of someone like sort of a grim face. Stoic 137 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: doesn't say much, um, and that that's not what stoicism 138 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: And they say in our article several times with a 139 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: capitalist really is all about? Right, Yeah, to these days, 140 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: people typically, or I should say these days, up to 141 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: about three years ago, people thought of stoics as somebody 142 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: who could watch their dog get hit by a car, 143 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: and you know their reaction was to raise their chin 144 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: a little higher up in the area, you know, like 145 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: just grin and bear it. Um. As Larry put it, Larry, 146 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: where I'm on a first name basis with Lady Wallace Layer, 147 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: that it's a philosophy of grim endurance, tolerating rather than 148 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: transcending life's agonies and adversities, just kind of trudging through um, 149 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: just taking hit after hit from life as it deals 150 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: deals them to you, right, that that was the idea 151 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: of stoicism. You can kind of like it's not like 152 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: that's just radically unlike actual stoicism, but it's an outsider's 153 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: interpretation of what the stoics are actually doing, what's actually 154 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: going on, the purpose of the whole thing. That outsider's 155 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: view that doesn't really fully understand. It became the popular 156 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: view until recently, until it started to kind of gain 157 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 1: some traction lately. Yeah, And you know, throughout the years, 158 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: stoicism has informed some religions. Uh, these days, there are 159 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 1: a lot of atheists, their stoics. Um, but I like 160 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: how our article says it. Uh is, above all, it 161 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: teaches the value of emotional control in living one's life fully. Yeah. 162 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: So here's the basis of it. The basis of it is, 163 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: if you can um detach yourself from emotional responses to things, 164 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,199 Speaker 1: then something that comes along, whether good or bad, is 165 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: not gonna get your goat. Stoicism is all about protecting 166 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: your goat and not letting anything get it. And the 167 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: way that the way that they do that is by saying, 168 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: there are very few things that I can control in life, 169 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,559 Speaker 1: and everything that I can't control, I'm not gonna get 170 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: up riled up over, you know, lose my job. Oh well, 171 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 1: it happens. It doesn't mean I'm any less of a person. 172 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: I just wanted to go out and get another job. 173 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: Dog gets hit by a car. Well that's really awful 174 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:33,839 Speaker 1: because I really like that dog. But I'll just go 175 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: get another dog, or maybe I'll just learn to live 176 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: without the dog. Maybe I was becoming too attached to 177 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: the dog. Things like that. That's stoicism. But the whole 178 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: point of it is it's not just to get your goat, 179 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: it's or to protect your goat from being gotten. It's 180 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: about UM living a moral life where you're a very 181 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: good human being. And the idea is that the only 182 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: way to really do that is through things like rationalism 183 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: and UM investigating the universe and being understanding of knowledge 184 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: and then UM pursuing ethics, specific ethics, UM. And then 185 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: they figured out the best way to do that is dispassionately. Yeah. 186 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: I think my bumper sticker would say, uh onboard colin, 187 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:26,599 Speaker 1: part time stoicis full time dreamer. Okay, that is that 188 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,719 Speaker 1: is a specific Yeah, right, bumper sticker. I used to 189 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: have a lot of bumper stickers in high school and 190 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: now I loathe them so much. Really, what did you have? Like, Oh, 191 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: I had an old Volkswagen Beetle and that was my 192 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 1: family actually bought brand new in nine eight and was 193 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,719 Speaker 1: passed down kid the kid, the kid, and it was 194 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: it was very cool. I thought at the time, well, 195 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: it is cool. I love those old Beetles. But I 196 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: just went through on those phases where I was like, 197 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: you know, here's a Native Americans saying and here's something 198 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: about mother nature and this Bob Marley had this to say, 199 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,439 Speaker 1: and just yeah, I was from those and now I 200 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 1: see those cars with all the things, and I'm just like, 201 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: shut up, nobody cares. Yeah, for sure. I mean, did 202 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: you have a three eleven sticker? No? This was pre 203 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,319 Speaker 1: three eleven? Actually, okay, got you? So did your mom 204 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:22,599 Speaker 1: come out and be like, what did you do to 205 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: the family heirloom? Put stickers over? No, it's funny that 206 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 1: that car had a the rear floorboard was missing on 207 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: one side. My dad had a car like that in Malibu, 208 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: so you could like see the street. Now that I 209 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: looked back, he didn't even have a piece of wood. 210 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: Now that I look back, I'm like, that was extraordinarily 211 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 1: irresponsible to be driving around with kids in the back 212 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: seat with the with the street visible. Yeah. I love 213 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: your dad, Just like watch your feet kids. Yeah, easy, 214 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,599 Speaker 1: does it? Uh? Alright, So let's you want to go 215 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 1: back and talk about the history a little bit. No, 216 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: I want to keep beating around the book. All right, 217 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: Let's get in the way back machine and we need 218 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: to really juice it up because we're going way back. 219 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: Got some kerosene, got some banana peels, and got some 220 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: airplane glue. But that's just for us, that's right, Because 221 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: it's a long ride. H ancient Greece is where we're headed, uh, 222 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,319 Speaker 1: to the time of the great philosophers. And um, like 223 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,839 Speaker 1: we said earlier, sitting here on the stoa, that was 224 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: a joke, but it wasn't. And you you, you know 225 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: you said stoa, You're gonna try it again. The stoa 226 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 1: POI Kiley, yes, or painted porch is what it means. 227 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: And that was a public space in Athens, Greece. It's 228 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: like a portico, yeah, where where people would hang out 229 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,719 Speaker 1: and talk and chew the fat. And that's what I 230 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 1: love about this time was people would just they were 231 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,959 Speaker 1: just alive with ideas, these philosophical ideas of trying to 232 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: figure it all out. Yeah, but don't you think like 233 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: everyone time you just be like everybody, shut up, I 234 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: gotta do something useful, yeah talking Yeah, No, but I 235 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 1: I I agree with you. Overall. It was a pretty 236 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 1: thrilling time. Did you take philosophy in college at all? No? No, 237 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: I didn't. Um, I really did not. I don't think 238 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: I took a single philosophy class, now that I think 239 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: about it. I even a survey. I took the one 240 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: kind of general class. I guess it was the one 241 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: on one and I actually made an A, which I 242 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: didn't make a ton of a's in college. And I 243 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: remember at the time kind of the same thing about 244 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: half the class. I was like, man, so fascinating, And 245 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: then then the other half I was just like, oh, man, 246 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: what a waste of time. I do something useful, like 247 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: volunteer for a charity, go makes something out of wood, anything. Alright, 248 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: So back to the stoa. We're on this painted porch, 249 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: this portico as it were. People are everywhere running their 250 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: mouths about what they think is important. Uh. And then 251 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: this dude wanders up Zeno of Sidium, Yeah, who had 252 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: recently been shipwrecked. And there are other zenos. Not to 253 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: be confused. I know it is confusing. There should be 254 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: one zeno. There can be in all of in all 255 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: of history, there were zenos of other things. But this 256 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: is Zeno of Sidium. And you're right, he was shipwrecked 257 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: and he was wandering around after a trip from Cyprus. 258 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: Did you say we're in Athens. Oh yeah, not Georgia, No, 259 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: although we did our fair shriff sitting around on porches 260 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: talking nonsense there as well. But that's a porch porch, yea, 261 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: not a Greek porch And so Zeno took a little 262 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: bit of insight from the cynics and then eventually said, 263 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: you know what, I could my kind of forming my 264 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: own thoughts here, and uh, I think everyone else is 265 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: doing it. I have my own philosophy. Yeah, and it's 266 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: called Stoicism, Yeah, named after later later, I don't think 267 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: he'd called it that. I'm not sure he'd probably called 268 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: it zeno Is. They're like, yeah, it sucks, We're gonna 269 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: call it Stoicism after the porch. But this is I mean, 270 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: like the Stoicism very quickly became one of the big 271 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: of philosophies at the time, and it rivaled some of 272 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: the philosophies that it grew out of, like Socratic philosophy 273 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: and like you said, cynicism the cynics, And actually, if 274 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: you look at Stoicism, it's kind of a compromise between 275 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: um Socrates or so creates as Bill and Ted call them, philosophy, 276 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: which was that to lead a good life. And this 277 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: was the point of all of the philosophies at this time, 278 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: during this Age of Reason, was achieving what was called 279 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: you daimonia, and daimonia is a life worth living. It's 280 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: thriving it's flourishing, it's being happy, like real happiness. Right. 281 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: That was the pursuit of all of these different ideas 282 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: that were floating around at the time, was how to 283 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: achieve that. Socrates had the idea that you achieve that 284 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: through like twelve cardinal virtues, and some of them were 285 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: things you could cultivate in yourself, like courage, a sense 286 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: of justice, that kind of stuff. But then there are 287 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 1: other ones too that had like everything to do with luck, 288 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 1: Like being good looking was one of them. Right, if 289 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 1: you were good, look, if you were ugly, sorry, buddy, 290 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 1: you could never achieve you daimonia right on the other 291 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: end of the spectrum where the cynics and the cynics 292 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: believed that earthly trappings like wealth and fame and glory 293 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: anything like that was the path to ruin, and that 294 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: the true path to you daimonia was living simply and 295 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: living in poverty. And so Zeno comes along and here's 296 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: all these and as he's formulating his own ideas, he's like, 297 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: Socrates makes some sense over here, and so do the 298 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: cynics a little bit, but I'm gonna put them together. 299 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 1: And that's where Stoicism came from. It was a compromise 300 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: between the two where you live a life of of 301 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: pursuing you damonia through these virtues. Four virtues Um. I 302 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: think there's justice, courage, wisdom, and then temperance. Right, So 303 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: you're practicing those four virtues. So that's that's kind of 304 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 1: a nod to Socrates. Um. And you don't have to 305 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: live in poverty. You can be wealthy, because the stoicism 306 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: is anything, it's wealthy. People who got into philosophy um 307 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,479 Speaker 1: that weren't quite sure how to feel about being wealthy, 308 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: to say, to kind of come to the point that, 309 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 1: like happen, money is not a bad thing, right, right, 310 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: And so what they came up with was, um, sure 311 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: you can be wealthy, and that's okay. You can prefer 312 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: to be wealthy, but you just can't be attached to it. 313 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: You can't desire to be wealthy because you can't control 314 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: being wealthy, and if you pursue being wealthy, you're pursuing 315 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: something beyond your control. So if you just happen to 316 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 1: be wealthy, that's great. You can be happy with it, 317 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: but also be prepared to lose it at any given time. 318 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: And that's a big part of stoicism. Yeah, I think 319 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 1: it's so funny though, to think about, like thousands of 320 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 1: years ago in ancient Greece, like they spent so much 321 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: time thinking about living this all these schools of thought 322 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: of living this life, so like, uh, putting so much 323 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 1: thought into living to life to its fullest and all 324 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 1: the different ways that they defined it. And eventually, like 325 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: over the years, like as recently as like the generation 326 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: of our parents and grandparents the United States, like the 327 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: philosophy of life was like you just go to work 328 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: and you work hard until you die, and that's the 329 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:48,479 Speaker 1: only thing that matters. Like all that stuff is garbage. Yeah, well, 330 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: I think that's one of the reasons why stoicism is 331 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: is becoming appealing Again, is this idea that like work 332 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: seems to be kind of going through a weird transformation, 333 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: doesn't it, Like it's not like that anymore? Like that 334 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: that that that ethic is still around for sure, But like, 335 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: how many people do you know work from home? Like 336 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: almost entirely a lot a lot, And that's fairly new. 337 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 1: So I wonder if like this changing work dynamic is 338 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: leading to this resurgence and stoicism that you can't find 339 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: happiness through other stuff. I mean, part of me thinks 340 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: this is all like super worthwhile, and part of me 341 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: thinks and it's sort of indulgent to sin and a 342 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: bit like you said, naval gayzy and like put just 343 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: start practicing good things instead of sitting around thinking about 344 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: the best way to live life. Well, we'll talk about 345 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: criticisms of them later on, but I think you hit 346 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,360 Speaker 1: a big one though, Chuck, was the idea that it's 347 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: self indulgent because it it demands introspection almost every moment 348 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: of every day. You want to take a break and 349 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: then get back to it. Yeah, I gotta, I gotta 350 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 1: get my head together. Where's that airplane glue here? You get? 351 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: All right? Nothing like airplane glue to get your head 352 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 1: back on straight. Is just kidding, of course. Everyone Sure, 353 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: we're smart guys. We don't do that kind of thing. No, 354 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: it's pretty tough to be smart and huff model airplane glue. 355 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: It's pretty you're pretty much making a choice between that 356 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: and being smart. That's what they teach you early on. 357 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: You want to go somewhere life, you want to huff 358 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: airplane glue. It's the one thing Nancy Reagan didn't lie about, 359 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: all right, So Zeno got things going, um, peace of 360 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: mind that comes with living a life of virtue in 361 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 1: accordance with re in in nature. And then other dudes 362 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 1: got on boards, and of course got on boards, got 363 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: on board, and they were all dudes back then because 364 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: everything was from the man's perspective. Uh, I just want 365 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: to point that out, Yeah, because it's changed so dramatically 366 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: since then. But some of the other early stoicist Cleanthes Kato, Kato, 367 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: the younger, elder younger, right, Kato, the calin oh man, 368 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: I forgot about him. I'm not sure which Kato. I 369 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: think it's the younger. Yeah, we'll find out from two 370 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,239 Speaker 1: people who email into let us. Uh Seneca. And then 371 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: a very important stoicis Uh. Well, I'm gonna pronounce it 372 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: epic epic epic tectus. Epic tetus sounds like a vaccine shot. 373 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: It does E P I C T E H t 374 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 1: U s. It's the C going into a T that's 375 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: getting you. It's just epic tetius or epic tetis. I 376 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: think I pictitis is what we should go with. I 377 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 1: want another see in there. I wanted to be epithectus, 378 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: but it's not. No it's not alright, So, uh, don't 379 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: forget Marcus Aurelius. Man. Oh well, sure, I mean he 380 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: comes a little bit later, like he was. He was 381 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: the ruler of Anthentt. Man, what is my problem today? 382 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: It's okay, man, Everyone knew what you meant. He was 383 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: the philosopher king and that was when Stoicism was kind 384 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:31,159 Speaker 1: of the most popular thing going. Yeah. Yeah. Apparently they 385 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: moved from Athens to Rome, which I didn't realize this. 386 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: I always had the idea um that Rome venerated Hellenistic 387 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: Greece hundreds of years after basically the Greek civilization had 388 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,199 Speaker 1: had just kind of, you know, gone into a bit 389 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: of a twilight or had gone out of its heyday. No, 390 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: there was total cross pollination, including some of these early 391 00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 1: Stoics who traveled from Athens to Rome, and basically with 392 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: that move transferred the seed of philosophy from Athens to Rome, 393 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 1: from Greek to Rome, to Um to Rome, from Greece 394 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,479 Speaker 1: to Rome. I didn't realize that they were They were 395 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 1: actually like cross pollinating one another at the time. Did 396 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: you know that? I think I recalled that from deep 397 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: in my college memory. Banks nice. Uh, so Epitetus Tedis 398 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:26,439 Speaker 1: man Um. He had a big role in the Stoic movement. 399 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: He was a former slave um, which kind of makes 400 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: sense and for in terms of Stoicism, he almost almost 401 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: single handedly gives um credence to uh Stoicism because so 402 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:47,360 Speaker 1: many other Stoics were extraordinarily wealthy, powerful man that it's like, yeah, 403 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: it's pretty easy for you to go through life saying, 404 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 1: you know, it's just just take what life gives you. 405 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: If life is giving you nothing but gold, bullying all 406 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: the time. Right, this guy was born a slave, crippled 407 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: in the knee for life and and became a Stoic, 408 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: one of the great Stoic thinkers, and just through his 409 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: life proved that Stoicism can work. Yeah, And he wrote 410 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: a handbook at the time was called an Encridian, and 411 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: he wrote the Incridian of Epic Tetis, And in coridium 412 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: literally means handbook, it means ready at hand. So it 413 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 1: was a very famous handbook. And he attributed, I mean, 414 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: the first line of it was some things are in 415 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: our control and others not right, and that kind of 416 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 1: sums it all up, like he could have said the end, 417 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: but he decided to dive a little deeper. I agree 418 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 1: with you. I think our brand of Stoicism has about 419 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 1: the same contours because that that that right there, that's all. 420 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 1: That's everything you need to know, right there is some 421 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: things you can control, most things you can't control. There 422 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 1: you go, don't get too high, too low, right, don't 423 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: get too mad about something. Well, ultimately, I think that's 424 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: what boils down to. I don't really find much of 425 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 1: a problem when people are overjoyed. I don't think that's 426 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 1: an issue. And technically with Stoicism, that is a that's 427 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,120 Speaker 1: a problem. You should not become overjoyed. The experiencing joy 428 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: is fine. But but just being like overcome with happiness 429 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: or joy or um, grief or whatever it is you're 430 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: you're you're violating one of those four cardinal virtues, temperance, 431 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: which is just being tempered and even keeled. So but 432 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 1: I think if you're saying, um, don't get upset about 433 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: something that's out of your control. Don't blame others, don't 434 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: try to control other people. Just know that whatever comes 435 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 1: you can handle it. There you go. That's all you 436 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: need to know for me. Yeah, and you know, I mean, 437 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: how many times have you heard me say it is 438 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,640 Speaker 1: what it is, which is an annoying thing to hear 439 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: and say, but it's pretty stoic. Well it is, but 440 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 1: it's also in my case, like it is what it 441 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: is until it Isn't It just matters if I personally 442 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 1: riled up about something, you know? Yeah, but I think 443 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 1: again though, if like, there's probably some people who listen 444 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: who who um subscribe to at least modern stoicism listening 445 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 1: to this, and I would guess that they would say 446 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: that's because stoicism is basically meant to apply to every 447 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 1: day of your life. Like, no stoics are really expected 448 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: to become stages in their lifetimes. That it's something you 449 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: just do every single day, is try to not get 450 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: riled up. But of course you're something's gonna come along 451 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: and get you riled up. That's just human nature. Stoicism 452 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: is trying to put a bridle on that human nature. Yeah. Well, 453 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 1: and this is insider stuff. Uh. I think you and 454 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: I compliment each other because we rarely get worked up 455 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: about the same thing. Just voter suppression. Well, no, it 456 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: happens here and there, but just in our personal lives 457 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: and and everything to do with work. Like oftentimes I've 458 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 1: noticed like something that will rile me up your and 459 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,239 Speaker 1: me down and the other way around. And I mean, 460 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: I think that's one reason we've lasted so long. Like 461 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 1: if two people were so similar that they're constantly worked 462 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,120 Speaker 1: up about the same stuff, no one, you know, you're 463 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 1: just gonna be working each other up, and no one's 464 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: going to be there to say, hey, man, it is 465 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,399 Speaker 1: what it is. Yeah, man, hey, mellow out, here's the 466 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: Bob Marley bumpers exactly. H So should we talk a 467 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: little bit about the areas of study? Yeah, all right, 468 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: Well there are three main ones and stoicism, uh, and 469 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: this is all you know to deal with introspection, which 470 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: is kind of like all philosophies. Um, physics is the 471 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: first thing. And it's not physics like you think of 472 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: that you hate studying in high school. Well, it falls 473 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: under a larger umbrella term, I guess. Yeah. They're talking 474 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: about the the natural world, the natural universe, and also 475 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: what lies beyond it. And and when they say the 476 00:28:54,040 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: natural world, they're talking about everything, um, God, the divine nature, 477 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: everything that we know and things that we don't know. Yeah, 478 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: everything we would view as science or like you said, nature, Um, yeah, 479 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: all that stuff that's physics and all of it. The 480 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: one of the things the Stoics, I think, if they 481 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: weren't the first to come up with it, they definitely 482 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: popularized it. Was the idea that all of this was interconnected, 483 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: which is pretty I mean, you take it for granted today, 484 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: like everybody thinks that everything is interconnected these days, but um, 485 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: it's to be among the first to kind of point 486 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: that out or suggest that's pretty pretty significant contribution to 487 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: Western thought. Yeah, imagine that was a pretty deep thing 488 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: when it first started hitting people. You know. Can you 489 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: just see George Carlin being like, oh, you just blew 490 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: my mind? Uh oh, because he was so great. Man. Wait, no, 491 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: he wasn't so great. He was he was the guide 492 00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: their spirit and what was his name? We'll just edit 493 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: this part out. I didn't know. I had to brush 494 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: up on my bill and dead. I didn't either. I 495 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: surprised myself. You should have seen my face. You know. 496 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: They kept they kept talking about remakes because recently, as 497 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, I think, or not remakes, 498 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: but sequels with the original. Yeah, Like Canna Reeves was like, man, 499 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: I love those movies. I'd love to make another one. 500 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: Did you see what what was? Um? So was Keanu Reeves, 501 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: Bill or Ted? Why are we even doing this to ourselves? Boy? 502 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: I want to say he was Ted. So the guy 503 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: who played the other guy, Yeah, Alex Winter. Oh jeez, Chuck, wow, 504 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: A nice job. So Alex Winter was in um what 505 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: was the Charles Bronson vehicle, like his most favor death 506 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: Wish Death Wish three. Death Wish three was what he 507 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: was in, which was when Golding Globus got their hands 508 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: on it and turned it into like a schlock island 509 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: like um, almost post apocalyptic movie. Um. And he's great 510 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: in it. But he's also in um A a documentary 511 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: on Golding Globus. I can't remember what the name of 512 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: the name of the documentaries, but it's just about how 513 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: bad the movies they made were and how how gleefully 514 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: these guys made them. But um, he's interviewed in it. 515 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: That guy hasn't aged a day. No, he looks exactly Okay, 516 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,959 Speaker 1: So he's Bill. Yeah alright, So, uh so we got 517 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: that settled. Physics was done. What's next? Uh, logic which 518 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: they wanted to include, um, social scientists, psychology, sociology, history, 519 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: which I kind of like, I'm down with that. As 520 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,239 Speaker 1: far as the philosophies go, they want to include all 521 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: this stuff. But collectively they kind of called this all reason. 522 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: It was a very big deal, uh, to Stoicism, perhaps 523 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: the biggest deal, right. And they also were engaged in 524 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: a pistol pology, which is theories of what knowledge is, 525 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: how we gain knowledge, what's true, what's belief, what's false? 526 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: How do we differentiate between these things? And they spend 527 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: a lot of time investigating this and putting it all 528 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 1: under logic, because it was through logic that you could 529 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: investigate physics, which included investigating God and the nature of 530 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: universe and stuff like that. And then through all that 531 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: that investigation, that introspection, that navel gazing, Um, you were 532 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: ultimately figuring out how to best pursue and best live 533 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: out the third part, which was the ethics of the 534 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: whole thing. Yeah, and you mentioned the four great virtues earlier, courage, justice, wisdom, 535 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: and temperance, and Um, the whole idea here is, Uh, 536 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 1: It's it's not like you want to block out the 537 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,719 Speaker 1: bad and only embrace the good. You like, you want 538 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: to consider both the good and the bad, but just 539 00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: don't let it any of it get in the way 540 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,239 Speaker 1: of any thing that you're trying to pursue in your life. Right, 541 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: pretty simple. Yeah, and the whole good bad thing. Where 542 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: did you find this this thing on ethics? Was that 543 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 1: the that was the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy from their 544 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: and from their entry on it. Yeah, it's pretty pretty good. 545 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: The whole thing was. Dude, you should have seen how 546 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: in depth they go though, But I thought this one 547 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: was a good snippet. Well, I was sure, Yeah, they 548 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: dive pretty deep, but I thought this was a pretty 549 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 1: good little summation there. And you know, they were talking 550 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: about um, like you said, like money isn't just not 551 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: good or a k A bad things like this they 552 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 1: called indifference as in uh I N D I F 553 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: F E R E N T S not indifference, And 554 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: it's like not good or bad. It could be either one. Um, 555 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: it's really kind of all about not letting something like 556 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: that get in the way of your pursuit. Right. So 557 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: and again it went back to wealth, right, and this um, 558 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 1: this person in the Encyclopedia of Philosophy points out that 559 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:17,840 Speaker 1: like money, definitely being wealthy usually is is helpful or 560 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: beneficial to the individual, but it can also not be beneficial. 561 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: Where say you have a big heroin problem, Well, the 562 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:27,879 Speaker 1: more money you get, the more money you're gonna spend 563 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 1: on heroin. So in that case, being wealthy is detrimental 564 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 1: to you're not beneficial. And for something to be a 565 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 1: good it has to be good under all circumstances, and 566 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,839 Speaker 1: to a stoic only there's only four things that are 567 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: good under all circumstances, which are those four cardinal virtues. 568 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: Everything else, like you said, is an indifferent and it 569 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: can either be preferred or dispreferred, like wealth typically would 570 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: fall under being a preferred and different whereas say disease, 571 00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: having chronic disease would be a disprefer just dispreper wow, 572 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: a dispreferred indifferent man. That's tough though it is um 573 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: But the point is is whether it's fabulous wealth or diabetes, 574 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: they should affect you about the same or you might 575 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 1: want one, you might not want to have one, but 576 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: if you have either one, you can live with it. 577 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: And that brings up a huge, huge component of stoicism 578 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: that's really been blown up and exploded in the twenty 579 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:36,839 Speaker 1: one century, which is you should take adversity and turn 580 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: it into a an opportunity for growth. That is a 581 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: huge aspect of Stoicism. That's that's really being practiced and 582 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 1: espoused these days. Yeah, I'm down with that. Like I 583 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: don't I don't think I like being able to take 584 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: from all these philosophies and different religions to form your 585 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 1: sort of pathway through life. You know, like when I 586 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 1: hear sometimes I've started to read about Buddhism and the 587 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: whole thing with Buddhism of like every day you start 588 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 1: a new and you have a new chance. Like that 589 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 1: really appeals to me too. What I don't like is uh, 590 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 1: when either religions or philosophy say like and like this 591 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,839 Speaker 1: is the only way, then everything else is BS. Sure, 592 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, that's just that's a harsh buzz kill. 593 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 1: There really is not only is a b S, but 594 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna kill you for thinking otherwise. So Seneca, who 595 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 1: was one of the great thinkers of Stoicism. He was 596 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: an advisor to Nero, and we'll talk about him as 597 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 1: criticism of Stoicism later on, but he had a very 598 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: famous quote where he says, you are unfortunate in my judgment, 599 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: for you have never been unfortunate. You have passed through 600 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 1: life with no antagonists to face you. No one will 601 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,840 Speaker 1: know what you are capable of, not even yourself, And 602 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 1: that kind of shapes that the basis of that idea 603 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: that no matter what life throws at you, you take 604 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: it and you say, I'm going to become a better 605 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 1: person from this, like, oh this happened, Well, that's great 606 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,719 Speaker 1: because that means that I can learn to be better 607 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: at this. So my dog just got hit by a car. 608 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna practice um fortitude and make it through this 609 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: really hard time and become a stronger person on the 610 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 1: other side. Yeah, he may as well have said you 611 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,840 Speaker 1: comma trust fund kid, Comma s right exactly. And I 612 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 1: mean that that that makes a people turn that on 613 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 1: Seneca as well, but a lot of modern Stoics come 614 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: to his defense. Is like, no, like, I had a 615 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: harder life than you would think. Should we take another break? Yeah, 616 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: all right, let's do it, and we'll talk about Seneca 617 00:37:54,320 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 1: and Cicero and all other kinds of weird names. So 618 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,840 Speaker 1: Chucky you were saying, you were talking about um religion. 619 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 1: Stoicism apparently informed Christianity in a lot of ways. Yeah, 620 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,920 Speaker 1: in Buddhism in some ways. Yeah, Yet atheists embrace it. 621 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 1: It's these days, but I mean the early stoics were 622 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 1: definitely they definitely believed in a divine intervention. It was 623 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,680 Speaker 1: kind of the basis of the whole thing, that this 624 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 1: is God's will, So why why you've tried to control it? 625 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,480 Speaker 1: Who are you to try to control it? Just roll 626 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 1: with the punches. Yeah, that's a big when when I 627 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 1: was taking all those philosophy quizzes, they're all a little 628 00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,319 Speaker 1: bit different, but you saw through line through a lot 629 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,800 Speaker 1: of these questions, and uh, the free will one was 630 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: in every single one of them. Yeah, like, how do 631 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 1: you feel about free will? And different ways of asking it? 632 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,719 Speaker 1: But you know that you will. What do you think 633 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: if exactly if you want to find out which philosophy 634 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 1: that you jibe with, uh, you have to answer the 635 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:22,320 Speaker 1: free will question. Free will question. Yeah, hey, that's easier 636 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:29,359 Speaker 1: to say than just preferred indifferent. Nice work. So um 637 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: So one of the big points, especially today for practicing 638 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: stoicism is looking at adversity as a growth opportunity for growth, Right, 639 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 1: that's just a good tool in life. Innic another one 640 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:43,960 Speaker 1: and this one, I really this is where I big 641 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,320 Speaker 1: time diverged from stoicism as like, a part of a 642 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 1: daily practice is something called negative visualization. Yeah, like, uh, 643 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 1: try and try and imagine the worst case scenario constantly. Yeah, 644 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,359 Speaker 1: I'm not into that at all. No, So say you're 645 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 1: say you're right, like your child's birthday party, right, and 646 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,920 Speaker 1: you are not you specifically, this is you just a 647 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 1: general person, and you're having just the most intense moment 648 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:19,920 Speaker 1: of of joy and appreciation for your child. According to stoics, 649 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 1: you should follow that up with a thought about how 650 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,800 Speaker 1: at your child's next doctor's appointment, your child could be 651 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:30,400 Speaker 1: diagnosed with terminal leukemia. That that is what you should 652 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: be doing basically all the time, negative visualization. And the 653 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:38,240 Speaker 1: idea is it's twofold one. You're preventing yourself from becoming 654 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 1: overjoyed at that moment. Don't don't do that. And then secondly, 655 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 1: you're you're exploring how you will feel if your kid 656 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,320 Speaker 1: does get diagnosed to something horrible or something bad happens, 657 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:57,400 Speaker 1: and that when it actually happens, you'll say that's not 658 00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,040 Speaker 1: so bad. I'm already used to it, or you'll be 659 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 1: able to confront it through your imagination and say, this 660 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: is what I'm afraid of that's not that bad. But 661 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:10,600 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a really extreme, horrific example. But but 662 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,440 Speaker 1: it is. Ultimately it's definitely in step with stoic stoicism 663 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:18,080 Speaker 1: that you should be visualizing the worst case scenario all 664 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,480 Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, I mean, And that's one of the 665 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 1: reasons stoicism has such a downer reputation. Uh, such that 666 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 1: Cicero uh wrote a stoic rouse enthusiasm, he is much 667 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,560 Speaker 1: more likely to extinguish any enthusiasm the student may have 668 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:39,799 Speaker 1: to begin with, Yeah, it was a pretty good burn. Um, 669 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,759 Speaker 1: and you know, I get that. Like, who would if 670 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:46,640 Speaker 1: you if that was one of the first things you learned, 671 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:52,000 Speaker 1: if you started to poke around with stoicism, people would 672 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:53,960 Speaker 1: probably be like, Man, I don't want to. I don't. 673 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:55,960 Speaker 1: I don't like the sounds of that. Yeah. I like 674 00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,920 Speaker 1: that you're not having to control everything aspect, but the 675 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: thinking about no thingbut negative thoughts all the time, you know, 676 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,040 Speaker 1: And I get the point of it. I just it 677 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 1: doesn't it doesn't appeal to me. No, I mean, you 678 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,360 Speaker 1: shouldn't be Pollyanna either. Um. Well, no, it's it's in 679 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,640 Speaker 1: direct contradiction to the idea of the power of positive thinking, 680 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,800 Speaker 1: which is stoics like, you fool, what are you doing. 681 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,200 Speaker 1: All you're doing is setting yourself up for nothing but 682 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,960 Speaker 1: let downs when that doesn't actually come true. Well, but 683 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,279 Speaker 1: I also agree with that to a certain degree, you know, 684 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,719 Speaker 1: like the whole like just you can conjure it up 685 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:34,040 Speaker 1: just by thinking positively. I think that's on the opposite 686 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:39,799 Speaker 1: side equally, Uh b s sure, sure, I think so too. 687 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,200 Speaker 1: I'm kind of right down the middle, I guess when 688 00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 1: it comes to that stuff, and I think most people are. 689 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,840 Speaker 1: But I think that's what's fascinating about this kind of 690 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,040 Speaker 1: thing is it's like, well, well there's are some people 691 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,520 Speaker 1: actually are to these these degrees, these extremes. It's interesting 692 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,759 Speaker 1: to me. Well yeah, And the other's interesting thing is 693 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 1: we you know, you're talking about Christianity, and then it's 694 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 1: weird how stoicism on one hand, like atheists like I 695 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,440 Speaker 1: can totally see how they'd be down with Stoicism, but 696 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:10,279 Speaker 1: also the whole notion that uh, some believers from God 697 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,719 Speaker 1: and some Christians like give it all up to God 698 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:17,719 Speaker 1: because only God can control anything. So all we're gonna 699 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,879 Speaker 1: do is is pray about it. And that's popular among 700 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,560 Speaker 1: Stoics as well. So it's just interesting that it has 701 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,880 Speaker 1: such a wide range as far as from atheism to 702 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,680 Speaker 1: like the you know, serious, serious, give it up to 703 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:35,360 Speaker 1: God Christianity, right yeah, no, definitely yeah, And it almost 704 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,200 Speaker 1: it's kind of like it's that buffet thing again where 705 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:40,839 Speaker 1: people can come along and take what they want from 706 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,960 Speaker 1: it and it becomes part of their own philosophy or 707 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:49,040 Speaker 1: their own religion or whatever. Um. Let's talk about some 708 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,960 Speaker 1: of the ways that that has been used over the 709 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:56,800 Speaker 1: year's stoicism. Right, So there's been a lot of people 710 00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:02,600 Speaker 1: who have followed Stoic thought, like Adam Smith Apparently, um 711 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,320 Speaker 1: was very much informed by Stoicism when you wrote The 712 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,480 Speaker 1: Wealth of Nations because one of the big, big, big 713 00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,000 Speaker 1: aspects of it was individual liberty. One one cool thing 714 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:16,320 Speaker 1: about the early Stoics was that everybody's equal, right, it 715 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:21,440 Speaker 1: doesn't matter whether you're a man, woman, gay, straight, uh, black, white, whatever, 716 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,040 Speaker 1: everyone is equal. And this was at a time when 717 00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:28,919 Speaker 1: slavery was rampant, right yeah, Um, so that was a big, 718 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,319 Speaker 1: big that's a big aspect to um. That's a big 719 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,200 Speaker 1: aspect of the Wealth of Nations is anybody can come 720 00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,440 Speaker 1: along and and become a capitalist. You just have to 721 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:42,520 Speaker 1: compete right. Um. Another place that it popped up kind 722 00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:47,200 Speaker 1: of famously was in cognitive behavioral therapy. Yeah, which initially 723 00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 1: when I saw that, I was like, that kind of 724 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,759 Speaker 1: surprised me, but then it all made sense, Like exposure 725 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:57,719 Speaker 1: two something bad can help you get over. It is 726 00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:01,359 Speaker 1: kind of like that conjuring that the worst possible it's 727 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,920 Speaker 1: almost numbing yourself to the worst possible thing. If you 728 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:08,319 Speaker 1: think about that worst case scenario thing all the time. 729 00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,560 Speaker 1: It's almost a way of preparing for that. Yeah. And 730 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:16,200 Speaker 1: and it's rooted specifically. One of the founders of CBT, 731 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:20,839 Speaker 1: Albert ellis Um, was an adherent of Um of Stoicism 732 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,840 Speaker 1: as a younger man, and the what's known as the 733 00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,640 Speaker 1: cognitive model of emotion, which is the basis of cognitive 734 00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:34,759 Speaker 1: behavioral therapy, is based on Epictetus's um maxim that people 735 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,400 Speaker 1: are disturbed not by things, but by their view of things. 736 00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:42,560 Speaker 1: And that's part of that whole Stoic philosophy, which is 737 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:47,200 Speaker 1: nothing is good or bad. There's only good in the 738 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,279 Speaker 1: four virtues. Everything else is how you view it. Whether 739 00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,040 Speaker 1: it's losing your job or winning the lottery, those aren't 740 00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,840 Speaker 1: those things aren't inherently good. Or bad. It's you, the 741 00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:01,000 Speaker 1: person experiencing that, who bestows good or bad on them? 742 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:06,880 Speaker 1: And why label things? I'm down with that. Yeah, a 743 00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:11,800 Speaker 1: little bit. Did you hear about Admiral Stockdale. I remember 744 00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,040 Speaker 1: that name for sure when he came out with his 745 00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:20,320 Speaker 1: h with his book, uh, Courage under Fire, Colin Testing 746 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,520 Speaker 1: epic tectus is Doctrines and the Laboratory of Human Behavior. 747 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,840 Speaker 1: He was a famous UM prisoner of war in Vietnam 748 00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,520 Speaker 1: for seven years, endured some of the worst of the 749 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,879 Speaker 1: worst you can imagine in war. And what got him 750 00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:42,640 Speaker 1: through was certainly not Christianity, because he thought that's nothing 751 00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,320 Speaker 1: but false hope. Well not not only that, he shared 752 00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,960 Speaker 1: the pow camp with people who you who clung to 753 00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:51,680 Speaker 1: that and and did not make it right up front. 754 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,839 Speaker 1: So what got him through was his stoic beliefs. Yeah, 755 00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,520 Speaker 1: he was a huge, big time adherent of Epictetus. Um. 756 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,759 Speaker 1: He'd studied him in college. Apparently he'd read everything that 757 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:07,839 Speaker 1: Epictetus had written or said. I had been written down 758 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:13,400 Speaker 1: and attributed to Epictetus twice from two different translators. So 759 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,759 Speaker 1: this guy knew is Epictetus and he said, well, I'm 760 00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,640 Speaker 1: a prisoner of war in Vietnam. I've got some broken bones, 761 00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,879 Speaker 1: I'm starving, I'm being mistreated. I'll be here for seven years. 762 00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,920 Speaker 1: What a perfect opportunity to put Epictetus's teachings to the 763 00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:31,479 Speaker 1: test in a real life laboratory experiment. And he said, 764 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:36,560 Speaker 1: Epictetus passed the flying colors. Was was Stockdale's final report 765 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,400 Speaker 1: on it? Yeah, he said. If Epictetus's lecture room was 766 00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,320 Speaker 1: a hospital, my prison was a laboratory, a laboratory of 767 00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,920 Speaker 1: human behavior. I chose to test his postulates against the demanding, 768 00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:49,959 Speaker 1: real life challenges of my laboratory. So, man, talk about 769 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,840 Speaker 1: a strong will, like to be based with that and 770 00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,440 Speaker 1: be like, well, hey, this is a great chance to 771 00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,359 Speaker 1: work on my philosophy of life. Exactly what else am 772 00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,840 Speaker 1: I gonna do? But that that follows in and of 773 00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:06,120 Speaker 1: itself on the whole too, of um, turning adversity into 774 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,800 Speaker 1: a room for growth as well. Yeah, man, yeah, stronger 775 00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:13,160 Speaker 1: than me. Let's just say that. So, um, you want 776 00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:17,320 Speaker 1: to talk about some criticisms of stoicism, Well, Cicero certainly 777 00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,600 Speaker 1: thought it was a big downer. Yeah, um, he said, 778 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,760 Speaker 1: well you already said, but he said, right, it basically 779 00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:28,520 Speaker 1: extinguishes enthusiasm and students not a good thing, right, And 780 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,239 Speaker 1: over the years, the fact that some of the great 781 00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,480 Speaker 1: Stoic thinkers of all time have been super wealthy and powerful. 782 00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:40,040 Speaker 1: Seneca Marcus Aurelius was the Emperor of Rome. He basically 783 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,200 Speaker 1: ran the free world. Well, I don't know if the 784 00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:46,200 Speaker 1: free world's right the Western world for almost twenty years. 785 00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,520 Speaker 1: And when you sit there and yeah, again, if you 786 00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:54,960 Speaker 1: say yes, you can turn anything into any adversity into 787 00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,279 Speaker 1: an opportunity. If if you're super wealthy, you don't have 788 00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:59,759 Speaker 1: to worry about where your food is going to come from. Like, yes, 789 00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,680 Speaker 1: of course you can be a Stoic. And then Epictetus 790 00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,399 Speaker 1: came along and, like we said, kind of erased all 791 00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,479 Speaker 1: that to an extent for sure, but it is still 792 00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:14,920 Speaker 1: kind of criticizes like a a wealthy person's philosophy, and 793 00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,160 Speaker 1: it kind of smacks of that a little bit today 794 00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:21,640 Speaker 1: to Chuck with its huge um resurgence in Silicon Valley. 795 00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:26,160 Speaker 1: Uh is that happening? Oh? Yeah, most most of the 796 00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:30,040 Speaker 1: Stoic revival is taking place there. That's where it's cradle 797 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,319 Speaker 1: is right now. Well, our own article has a couple 798 00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:37,000 Speaker 1: of good points to talk about it. Um not being 799 00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:41,839 Speaker 1: hiss appealing because it lacks the mystique of Eastern practice. Uh. 800 00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:44,520 Speaker 1: And then they also said, this is also regarded as 801 00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:49,960 Speaker 1: a philosophy of merely breaking even while remaining determinedly impassive. Yes. 802 00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:52,800 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's entirely fair, but it's a 803 00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:56,960 Speaker 1: it's it kind of catches it a little bit. Well, yeah, 804 00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:00,160 Speaker 1: because the very next sentences, this attitude ignores the as 805 00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,720 Speaker 1: proffered by stoicism of blasting transcendence. And that one article 806 00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:07,480 Speaker 1: that you sent talked about the power of indifference, right, 807 00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:11,320 Speaker 1: which I thought it was interesting. It's not about just 808 00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:15,080 Speaker 1: like not caring about anything. It's about caring about only 809 00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:18,399 Speaker 1: the right things that you have the power to change. Yeah. 810 00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:23,040 Speaker 1: And also though I also see that even keel aspect 811 00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,120 Speaker 1: being indifferent, the power of it, I mean, think about 812 00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,920 Speaker 1: how much time whenever you you are like super happy 813 00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:34,399 Speaker 1: about something going right or super upset about something going wrong, 814 00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:39,440 Speaker 1: you're ultimately you're being distracted from keeping on keeping on, 815 00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:43,000 Speaker 1: and then you go back to eventually get back to 816 00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:46,400 Speaker 1: that middle again, which is the baseline anyway. And so 817 00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:49,440 Speaker 1: I guess what stoics are doing is staying on that 818 00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:54,200 Speaker 1: that baseline and not being distracted so they can get 819 00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:58,080 Speaker 1: further along faster or at a more steady pace. Yeah. 820 00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:02,439 Speaker 1: I mean, there's definitely, uh, something that's really frustrating in life, 821 00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,920 Speaker 1: which is when you look back and say, man, I've 822 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:09,880 Speaker 1: spent two days stressed and worried about something that I 823 00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,920 Speaker 1: have no control over, right, And what a waste of 824 00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:14,840 Speaker 1: time that was when I could have done X, Y 825 00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,839 Speaker 1: and Z. One of the big questions I have. It's 826 00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:20,120 Speaker 1: not necessarily a criticism. I guess it depends on what 827 00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:22,720 Speaker 1: the answer would be. But my one, my big question 828 00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:27,879 Speaker 1: for stoicism, since it's so um it places so much 829 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:32,799 Speaker 1: emphasis on the individual and self exploration and introspection. How 830 00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:40,240 Speaker 1: would a stoic suggest enacting massive social change where something 831 00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,120 Speaker 1: some ill is happening to some large group of people, 832 00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,960 Speaker 1: but nothing's going to change unless you go out of 833 00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:52,480 Speaker 1: your own personal sphere and work to make others change. 834 00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,640 Speaker 1: How do you do that or do you just say, well, whatever, 835 00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,440 Speaker 1: it's God's will that these people suffer and be put 836 00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:03,799 Speaker 1: down by of the majority for forever, or is there 837 00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,360 Speaker 1: some way that that can be addressed through the stoic 838 00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:11,080 Speaker 1: you know, philosophy. I'm very curious, so anybody who knows 839 00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:14,960 Speaker 1: that right in please, yeah, maybe that's white appeals to 840 00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:18,480 Speaker 1: Silicon Valley, right. Well, that's the other thing too, right. 841 00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:21,440 Speaker 1: So it also very much smacks when when you hear 842 00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:25,839 Speaker 1: of it from like wealthy people espousing it to anybody, Um, 843 00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:31,960 Speaker 1: it's smacks of that whole uh aspect of Christianity, where hey, 844 00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,800 Speaker 1: medieval peasant, you know how your life is terrible and 845 00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:36,680 Speaker 1: you're gonna live to thirty five and all you do 846 00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:39,040 Speaker 1: is work all the time, and you give most of 847 00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:42,839 Speaker 1: the spoils of your effort to your king. Well, there's 848 00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:46,520 Speaker 1: such thing as Christianity, and your treasure is in the afterlife, 849 00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:50,000 Speaker 1: so don't worry about this life. It's smacks of the 850 00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:53,200 Speaker 1: same thing where you can keep a population placated and 851 00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:57,520 Speaker 1: not searching for larger social change by saying, hey, just 852 00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:00,680 Speaker 1: focus on these four things and every thing else is 853 00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:02,839 Speaker 1: just It just happens, and you don't need to get 854 00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:05,279 Speaker 1: worked up about it at all. It seems like a 855 00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:09,120 Speaker 1: bit of a pacifier too, depending on how you look 856 00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:13,319 Speaker 1: at it. It's it's fascinating. Are we done with stoicism? 857 00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:18,360 Speaker 1: I'm finished with it? Okay? I think that was a 858 00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:20,840 Speaker 1: good overview. I think so too. A good thoughts starter 859 00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:25,800 Speaker 1: if you want to know more about stoicism. But there's 860 00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,680 Speaker 1: a lot more out there than this. Just dive in 861 00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:30,680 Speaker 1: and see what it means to you. And again, it's 862 00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:33,239 Speaker 1: a buffet. Take what you like, leave what you don't want, 863 00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:39,120 Speaker 1: leave the kirdled pudding behind. Take the perfectly garliced green beans. 864 00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:44,520 Speaker 1: Yeah if you uh, what else did I already say 865 00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,080 Speaker 1: that one part? Oh, since I said green beans, it's 866 00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:53,400 Speaker 1: time for listener mail. I'm gonna call this beagle brigade 867 00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,919 Speaker 1: slash police dogs. People love that. One man who doesn't 868 00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:03,480 Speaker 1: love beetles, Beagles on aid on parade, no one, even 869 00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:06,120 Speaker 1: people who get busted with whole pigs still are like that. 870 00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:10,239 Speaker 1: Beagles adorable. So this dude, Eric Stover, as a sandwicher, 871 00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:14,160 Speaker 1: meaning he follows our advice, which is to listen to 872 00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:18,320 Speaker 1: the newest episode as well as whatever from our back catalog. 873 00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:22,000 Speaker 1: He chooses to Yeah, he's doing it right. Hey, guys 874 00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:24,040 Speaker 1: are working in the sports and entertainment business in New 875 00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:26,440 Speaker 1: York and after nine eleven, the use of bomb sniffing dogs, 876 00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:31,280 Speaker 1: mostly German shepherds, became standard operating procedure for all events. 877 00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:33,960 Speaker 1: You are respired to a concert one night. The canine 878 00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:36,759 Speaker 1: units were sweeping all the backstage areas and one of 879 00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:39,880 Speaker 1: the bomb dogs hit on an employee locker. You can 880 00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,200 Speaker 1: imagine it caused an immediate and serious response. A bomb 881 00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:45,520 Speaker 1: squad was dispatched and that portion of the arena was evacuated. 882 00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:48,480 Speaker 1: Plans were even made to cancel the show. Uh, he 883 00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:50,640 Speaker 1: doesn't say what show, which I was very curious about. 884 00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:57,400 Speaker 1: I'm going to say three doors down. Okay, After some 885 00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:00,359 Speaker 1: very tense moments, the police officers open the locker. Those 886 00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:03,239 Speaker 1: guys are super brave. Thankfully they didn't find a bomb, 887 00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:06,279 Speaker 1: but did find drugs. An employee must have thought it 888 00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:08,600 Speaker 1: must have brought in an extra bump for the show. 889 00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:12,399 Speaker 1: Oh man, it was definitely three doors. Then you might 890 00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:17,279 Speaker 1: be asking yourself, Um, no, this wasn't the band's green room. 891 00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,040 Speaker 1: This was an employee. Oh no, I know three doors down. 892 00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:24,040 Speaker 1: Three Doors Downs fans are among the most drug adult 893 00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:28,480 Speaker 1: of all they. I thought that was the Juggalos. No, 894 00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:32,279 Speaker 1: they put the Juggalos a shame. Juggalos take time off 895 00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:33,799 Speaker 1: once in a while, you know what I mean. Yeah, 896 00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:38,120 Speaker 1: that's true. Uh, you might be asking yourself, how does 897 00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:41,360 Speaker 1: a bomb dog find drugs. As it turns out, the 898 00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:45,239 Speaker 1: dog had failed out of drug school and was retrained 899 00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:52,279 Speaker 1: as a bomb dog. Poor guy, that's hilarious, Poor guy. 900 00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:55,040 Speaker 1: Which one the dog or the guy who just happened 901 00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,920 Speaker 1: to run across the failed drug dog? I guess we 902 00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,239 Speaker 1: were still remembered. There are no winners here. I guess 903 00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:04,160 Speaker 1: he didn't completely forget his drug training, though, and he 904 00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,200 Speaker 1: set off the chain of events that scared the crap 905 00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:09,080 Speaker 1: out of us. The story ends with the employee getting arrested, 906 00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:11,680 Speaker 1: The show went on and the fans none the wiser. 907 00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:15,480 Speaker 1: And my guess is the dog was reassigned to crowd control, 908 00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,840 Speaker 1: just barking up people taking line. Thanks for everything you 909 00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:21,480 Speaker 1: guys do. Please let me know if you ever need 910 00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:25,800 Speaker 1: anything in New York City. Is that a hint? We 911 00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:31,000 Speaker 1: don't do drunks, Eric, Yeah, we're terrified of dogs. That 912 00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:33,879 Speaker 1: is Eric Stover in New York and I guess he's 913 00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:37,719 Speaker 1: still in the sports and entertainment business. Yeah, he's like, 914 00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,880 Speaker 1: you need some sports, Come see me. I could use 915 00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:45,120 Speaker 1: some sports. Thanks Eric. That's a pretty great story, right, 916 00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:48,920 Speaker 1: that's right. If you want to get in touch of this, 917 00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:51,440 Speaker 1: like Eric did, you can hang out with me on Twitter, 918 00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:56,200 Speaker 1: I'm at Josh Underscore um Underscore Clark. We also have 919 00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:59,279 Speaker 1: an official s y s K podcast handle. You can 920 00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:02,680 Speaker 1: hang out with Tuck on Facebook dot com, slash Charles W. 921 00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:06,440 Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant, or slash stuff you Should Know. You can 922 00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:08,800 Speaker 1: send us an email. This stuff podcast at how stuff 923 00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:10,839 Speaker 1: works dot com and has always joined us at our 924 00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:13,439 Speaker 1: home on the web, Stuff you Should Know dot com. 925 00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,560 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, is 926 00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:21,840 Speaker 1: that how stuff Works dot com