1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Hola. My name is Mike Sargeant. I am the senior 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: production manager here at Latino USA, and part of my 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: job is basically to keep the trains running and create 4 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: procedures and protocols that help the great journalists that we 5 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: have working for us do the great work that they do. 6 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: I want to wish Latino USA a very happy thirtieth anniversary. 7 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: I'm very proud to be part of this team and 8 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: I look forward to many more years working with Latino USA. 9 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 2: This is Latino USA, the radio journal of News and 10 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 2: Kurturre Latino USA. Latino Latino USA. I'm Maria Inojosa. We 11 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 2: bring you stories that are underreported but that mattered to you, 12 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 2: overlooked by the rest of the media, and while the 13 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 2: country is struggling to deal with these, we listen to 14 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 2: the stories of black and Latino Studio United, Latino Front, 15 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 2: a cultural renaissance organizing at the forefront of the movement. 16 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 2: I'm Maria Inojosa, nose Bayan. 17 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 3: My work wouldn't be what it is if I had 18 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 3: not been through a revolution. I think the revolution made 19 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 3: me who I am. A lot of my experience comes 20 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 3: from that, the good and the bad. 21 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 2: From Futromedia and PRX. It's Latino USA. I'm Maria in 22 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 2: no Josa today. A conversation with the poet and the 23 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 2: revolutionary from Nicaragua, Gioconda Belli. It's nineteen sixty one in 24 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 2: Nicaragua and a group of young people literally decide to 25 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 2: become revolutionaries to fight against the Somosa family, a dynasty 26 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 2: of dictators. They had ruled for over forty years with 27 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 2: the support of the US government. 28 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 4: I want the American people to help me as I 29 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 4: helped them year to fight communists. I think that the 30 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 4: United States cannot afford to lose a good partner as 31 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 4: Nicaragua is. 32 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 2: The revolutionaries called themselves the Sandinista National Liberation Front, also 33 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 2: known as the fsl N. As a little girl, I 34 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 2: remember hearing about the FSLN, and they had this goal 35 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 2: to topple a dictator. It seemed almost impossible, and yet, 36 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 2: when I was just about to go to college in 37 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine, I witnessed the moment when these revolutionaries 38 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 2: finally accomplished what nobody thought was possible to remove the 39 00:02:45,040 --> 00:03:00,239 Speaker 2: Samosas from power. Now, when the Sandinista gorillas marched into Managua, 40 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 2: Jioconda Belli, who was a Sandinista who was in exile 41 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 2: in Costa Rica, forced there by the Samosa regime, and 42 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 2: also in exile was Danielle or Tega, who is the 43 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:19,639 Speaker 2: current President of Nicaragua. After the victory of the revolution 44 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy nine, they both returned to Nicaragua to 45 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 2: help rebuild the nation. But more than forty years later, 46 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 2: Gioconda Belli is no longer an FSLN militant, she is 47 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 2: an award winning author, and once again she is in exile, 48 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 2: stripped of her Nicaragua's citizenship by the person who once 49 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 2: was her comrade, President Danielle or Tega. We're going to 50 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 2: help you understand how the paths of these two once 51 00:03:55,680 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 2: revolutionaries diverged so radically. The success of the Sandinista revolution 52 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 2: was followed by more than a decade of civil war 53 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 2: with the emergence of the Contrast. This was a counter 54 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 2: revolutionary far right faction supported actively and with millions of 55 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 2: dollars and aid by the Republican Reagan administration. 56 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 5: The Reagan Administration's determination to sell arms secretly to Iran 57 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 5: and to help guerrillas fighting the Marxist government of Nicaragua, 58 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 5: despite congressional objections, was the engine that drove the Iran contra. 59 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 5: A Polish I don't think it was wrong. 60 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 3: I think it was a neat idea. 61 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 2: And while Daniel Ortega became the first freely elected president 62 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 2: of Nicaragua in nineteen eighty four, six years later he 63 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 2: ran again, but he lost the country's vote. 64 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 6: Only one candidate at Washington's blessing, and with it substantial 65 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 6: financial help to fund the coalition's campaign. After the votes 66 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,679 Speaker 6: were counted, it was Violeta Chamorro who addressed her jubilant 67 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 6: supporters as Nekuragu's new president's elect. 68 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,239 Speaker 2: Ortega tried to return to power in every single election 69 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 2: that followed. Finally he succeeded in two thousand and seven, 70 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 2: but by then the FSLN was no longer the revolutionary 71 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 2: party of the gorillas and the poets of the nineteen seventies, 72 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 2: and neither was Ortega, who, with now sixteen consecutive years 73 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 2: in power, has grown increasingly authoritarian and repressive. Giocondavelli was 74 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 2: a part of the revolutionary government at first, but then 75 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 2: she began to separate from the FSLN and to dedicate 76 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 2: herself more to literature to publishing novels, essays, collections of poems, 77 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 2: as well as a memoir about her time as a revolutionary. 78 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 2: She began to split her time between Nicaragua and southern 79 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,799 Speaker 2: California in the United States, where she moved to after 80 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 2: marrying an American journalist. Through her writing and public appearances, 81 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 2: Chukuonna became one of the most prominent Nicadaguan voices now 82 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 2: against Daniel Ortega, particularly after the violent repression that followed 83 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 2: massive anti government protests in twenty eighteen. In February of 84 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 2: this year, the Ortega regime accused Jyokonda, along with more 85 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 2: than three hundred other journalists, students, writers, human rights activists 86 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:49,239 Speaker 2: and opposition leaders, accused them of treason and then stripped 87 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 2: them of their Nicaraguan citizenship. I recently connected with Dyukonda 88 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 2: across the Atlantic. She's now living in Madrid after the 89 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 2: Spanish government there offered her citizenship. We talked about her 90 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 2: long history of standing up to dictators, what she finds 91 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 2: revolutionary in writing, and what hopes she still has for 92 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 2: the future of Nicaragua. Here's our conversation. Welcome to Latino, Usa, 93 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 2: Gioconda Belli, Thank you very nice. 94 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 7: To be here with you. 95 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 2: I was sure that we had interviewed you for Latino USA, 96 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 2: but it turns out that where I interviewed you was 97 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 2: for my television show, and I used to have a 98 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 2: television talk show in Boston at WGBH, And so that 99 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 2: was mean. Guanto san Joconda. 100 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 3: Must have been like at least two thousand and six, 101 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 3: almost twenty years since. 102 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 2: I've seen you. And my gosh, your daughters grew up. 103 00:07:58,440 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 2: You're a grandmother. 104 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 7: I have six grandchildren. 105 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 2: Wow. 106 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 7: Multiplication of this species very important. 107 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 2: So you know, Gioconda, your life and your work have 108 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 2: been so intertwined with your country. In fact, your country 109 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 2: is so much a part of you that your autobiography 110 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 2: is called The Country under My Skin. And so I 111 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 2: wanted to ask first, how would you describe your connection 112 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 2: to the place where you were born, where you have 113 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 2: all of this intense history, commitment, part of a revolution, 114 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 2: and of course Nicaragua for a certain generation of us, 115 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 2: was really huge. 116 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:49,959 Speaker 3: That revolution was what occupied my youth and what occupied 117 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 3: in my dreams and a lot of my energy for 118 00:08:54,400 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 3: many years. And it is connected, of course, the vibrancy, 119 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 3: the greenery, the beauty of the sky, the Lake, the 120 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 3: volcanoes of Nicaragua. So it is very painful to be 121 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 3: here in Madrid, although I like Madrid very much, but 122 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 3: to think that I have been stripped of my nationality, 123 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 3: that I have been declared a trader to my country, 124 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 3: that they have confiscated my house and my son's house 125 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 3: and my brother's place, and they have also been stripped 126 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 3: of their nationality. So it's a very contradictory feeling. Because 127 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 3: my love for Nicaragua remains intact. I always say that 128 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 3: it's a portable country. You know that I lived in 129 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 3: the United States quite a few years and I still 130 00:09:54,720 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 3: had that attachment to Nicaragua. I never lost it, and 131 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 3: it's been part of my blood and my my reason 132 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 3: for being in a way. 133 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 2: I mean, anybody who understands and knows Jacondaveli and her 134 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,599 Speaker 2: history understands that she was not going to take this 135 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 2: sitting down. In fact, this is what you did. You 136 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 2: went on live television and you tore your passport up. 137 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 7: Porte na. 138 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 3: Nawents documento paky claro LOI. 139 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 2: I think you had scissors, if I'm not mistaken. 140 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 3: Yes, I brought some scissors and do no way. I 141 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:45,839 Speaker 3: heard the Cercain soil for nothing, Doc Condola Historia, I 142 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 3: will be out. 143 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 7: Libros. I took these. 144 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 3: Scissors and I said, I'm going to cut this passport 145 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 3: to show you that this document and doesn't make me Nicarawan, 146 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 3: and that when the government of Ortega and Morio have 147 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 3: become a paragraph of the black history of Nicaraua, I'm 148 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 3: still going to appear in my books as Jakonda Beiley 149 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 3: and Nicarawan author. 150 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 2: Jyukonda. After having been a diplomat for the FSL and 151 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 2: for the Sandinistas, after having held multiple high level positions, 152 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 2: you begin a pretty intensive criticism of Danielle Ortega. And 153 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 2: this is when in twenty eighteen, Daniel Ortega and his 154 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 2: government violently repressed so lab Lavitadkondam. I don't even know 155 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 2: if I have the word for the emotions as you 156 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 2: talk about what this person has done in the name 157 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 2: of Sandinista's right, did you ever imagine that he was 158 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 2: capable of this? 159 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 3: Yes, I have been a critic of Daniel Ortea and 160 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 3: his government since nineteen ninety practically because I began to 161 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 3: see all these signs after we had the electoral defeat 162 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety everything changed within Sandinismo, and dan Nellortea 163 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 3: began a campaign. I think he was afraid that we 164 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 3: were going to elect somebody else to lead the party 165 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 3: because he had lost the elections. He was a very 166 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 3: mediocre person and we all knew it. You know, he 167 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 3: had been made into the representative of the revolution, but 168 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 3: he wasn't really the man in the throne, so to speak. 169 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:39,839 Speaker 7: He was one of. 170 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 3: Nine when the elections in nineteen ninety elected Violeta Chamorro. 171 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:51,319 Speaker 3: What happened was there was a big movement within Sandinismo 172 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 3: to change things, and he began to accuse everybody who 173 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 3: wanted to change things to be a traitor to try 174 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 3: to get him out of office, and began to use 175 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 3: a lot of dirty maneuvers. And since then it began 176 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 3: to be quite evident for many of us that he 177 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 3: was going to take Sandinismo into an abyss, that it 178 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 3: was never going to be the Sandinismo we had known. 179 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 3: And exactly what happened. I mean, he was already with 180 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 3: this woman Prosado Murio, who had become his right hand person, 181 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 3: and this woman has been a very, very bad thing 182 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 3: for Nicaragua. It's not like we didn't know that things 183 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 3: could turn, but we didn't know the level of cruelty 184 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 3: and the level of malice that we have been living through. 185 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 2: It's frankly so depressing because again, it was such a 186 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 2: moment of esperanza. Yes, and when I think about your trajectory, 187 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 2: gioc on that it's not the first time that you 188 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 2: have stood up to a dictator in your country. You 189 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 2: did this during the time of the Sandinistas, and because 190 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 2: of that you were forced into exile into Mexico and 191 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 2: Costa Rica. So I'm wondering now, what is similar in 192 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 2: what is different in terms of your experience of exile. 193 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 7: Oh, it's very different. 194 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 3: Because when I went to exile in nineteen seventy five, 195 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 3: I was hopeful there was a movement, an organization that 196 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 3: was really working towards defeatings of Moosa in an organized 197 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 3: way and with a lot of heroism and abnegation and 198 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 3: people who were amazing. Now there is no movement, you know. Now, 199 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 3: I left organized politics. I haven't been in a party 200 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 3: for a long time. I consider myself an independent person. 201 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 3: But this time, the level of repression is such that 202 00:14:55,360 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 3: it's very hard to organize and there is no consistent opposition. 203 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 3: I think there is a lot of work to create 204 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 3: this consistent opposition, and I hope it will happen, but 205 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 3: I might not see it for quite a while. So 206 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 3: this time is it's sad. And also, you know, I 207 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 3: was twenty five when I went into exile in seventy five, 208 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 3: so now I am quite a bit older, as I say, 209 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 3: I am in my advanced youth. 210 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 2: And so I'm standing that from you Anyamazada. 211 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 3: So you know I also have much more to do 212 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 3: in a way, because I have worked very hard all 213 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 3: these years to write to become a name in Latin 214 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 3: American literature. 215 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 7: I love what I do. I love writing. 216 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 3: I have realized that what I write sometimes is more 217 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 3: important than just being a militant, you know what I mean. 218 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 3: If I have the talent to write and to touch 219 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 3: the hearts of a lot of people, that is my mission, 220 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 3: you know, instead of being a part of a political 221 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 3: party or trying to have a political job. So my 222 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 3: end in life is to leave a mark with my words, 223 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 3: to talk about women, to create a voice for women. 224 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 3: It's so important for me, and I realize that in 225 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 3: my poetry, in my novels, women have felt a representation 226 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 3: of their selves and have felt empowered, and I have 227 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 3: celebrated womanhood like I think we should all celebrate it, 228 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 3: and I will keep doing it because I think it's 229 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 3: very important in this day and age to have a 230 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 3: humanistic perspective around the things that are going on in 231 00:16:54,840 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 3: the world, and also to celebrate especially who we are women. 232 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 3: You know, I think women should eventually become the force 233 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 3: of change in the world, and I think the world 234 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 3: needs that force of change to survive. 235 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 2: The thing is, Yukonna, that you and the other women 236 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:22,120 Speaker 2: in the fsl end you were exactly that you represented change. 237 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 2: So I wonder what has stayed with you from those 238 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 2: revolutionary moments, right and do those moments do they give 239 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 2: you hope or what's been lost since then? 240 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 3: If you think about the French Revolution, which to this 241 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 3: day is one of the most important revolutions in the world. 242 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 3: For the republic to really become a republic, it took 243 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 3: almost one hundred years. 244 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 7: History is a very long thing and we live. 245 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,479 Speaker 3: A very short life, comparatively speaking, and so I have 246 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 3: to believe that what I have dreamt and what I 247 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 3: have done, it's going to give fruit eventually. I cannot 248 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 3: rush history. History moves in its own way, But we 249 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 3: have to believe and we have to work every day 250 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 3: to make a future happen. 251 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 2: Coming up on Latino USA, Dyukonda shares why she turned 252 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 2: to literature after leaving the revolution, and she reads us 253 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 2: a poem that speaks of her present moment and that 254 00:18:39,000 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 2: brought me to tears. Stay with us notayas, Hey, we're back. 255 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 2: Before the break, we were talking with Joconda, the Nicaraguan 256 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 2: poet and former revolutionary fighter who was recently stripped of 257 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 2: her citizenship by the government of Danielle or Tega. As 258 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 2: we continue our conversation, Jukonda walks us through the path 259 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 2: she took in literature after leaving the Sandinista revolution that 260 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 2: toppled a US back dictator. Here's the rest of our conversation, 261 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 2: with all of the tumult in your life in your country, 262 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 2: right because you leave Nicaragua in the nineteen nineties, you 263 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 2: moved to California, and during all of this time you're writing. 264 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 2: Right as you said, it's your writing. I mean you 265 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 2: touch me, not because you were a diplomat leave Da LaVita, 266 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 2: that you touch me because you were a writer and 267 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 2: a poet and who was bringing Latin American women to life. 268 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 2: So what do you think that the fact that you've 269 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 2: literally been able to dedicate yourself to writing, what has 270 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 2: it brought to your life? 271 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 7: Well, it's creativity, you know. 272 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 3: Bargasciosa, he wrote an essay about Garcia Marquez Golde Historia 273 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 3: da Cidio, and he said that the writers create a 274 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 3: world and in that world they are kind of God 275 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 3: because they can decide who lives, who dies. 276 00:20:58,280 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 7: Whatever. 277 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 3: I am find by the workings of the human mind, 278 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 3: and how when you are writing, when you are creating, 279 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 3: there is this energy that surprises you about how everything 280 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 3: that you have lived somehow can become fiction, can become poetry. 281 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,880 Speaker 3: It's nurtured by all these experiences that you have had 282 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 3: in life. So I think it gives me incredible satisfaction. 283 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 3: It makes me feel that I have a job, you know, 284 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 3: I feel employed, and that's very important. Also, poetry makes 285 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:40,479 Speaker 3: me connect to people in an incredible way. When you 286 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 3: see people react and tell you what they have felt, 287 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 3: it's very moving and a very powerful experience of connection 288 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:49,880 Speaker 3: with other humans. 289 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 2: Dats So what would you say of, for example, the 290 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 2: lived experiences that you have as a revolutionary and how 291 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 2: some of this has tried translated into what you write 292 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 2: in fiction. 293 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 3: My work wouldn't be what it is if I had 294 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 3: not been through the Revolution. I think the revolution made 295 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 3: me who I am. A lot of my experience comes 296 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 3: from that. The good and the bad, you know, have 297 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 3: come from being in that process. From being part of it. 298 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 3: I learned how to conquer my fear. I learned how 299 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 3: to think in a more profound way. 300 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 7: They need to. 301 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 3: Learn about history, about social movements. I mean enriched me 302 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 3: in so many ways. And I also met my husband, Charlie, 303 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 3: when I was the spokesperson for the Sandinistas. Yeah, you know, 304 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 3: I lived a very interesting life with him, having to 305 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 3: go to the United States, which I had never thought 306 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 3: I would do. And so it's all these things have 307 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 3: a way to express themselves in the writing and the 308 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 3: things that we right. 309 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,959 Speaker 2: And when I'm thinking about that, and the fact that 310 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,879 Speaker 2: you have turned your life into poetry, I'm thinking about 311 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 2: one thing in particular that you shared with me the 312 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 2: last time I interviewed you. We were talking about being moms. 313 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 2: I was the mother of smaller children at that time, 314 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 2: and you told me that your daughter wrote an essay 315 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 2: to get into college about how many times her mother 316 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 2: the revolutionary feminist Latin American poet had to leave, had 317 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 2: to leave the kids behind because mom was busy making 318 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 2: revolutionary things happen in her writing and in her life. 319 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 2: And the line that has stuck with me, Gioconda is 320 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 2: entonsis is when your daughter said that she knew mom 321 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 2: was gone when she would get to the bathroom and 322 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,159 Speaker 2: she realized that your toothbrush was gone. And you know, 323 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 2: I spent so much and still spent so much time 324 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 2: on the road, and I wonder how you have understood 325 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 2: this thing that we have all women, but certainly Latin 326 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 2: American women, let in USDA, you know, because la familia 327 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 2: centro the first thing, you know, elculto LaMaMa, we have 328 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 2: to be the best moms. How have you dealt with 329 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,959 Speaker 2: any of the residual guilt or not? 330 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 3: You know, I was so dedicated to the idea and 331 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 3: was so convinced that I was doing something good for them. 332 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 3: You know, they could not see it, but that in 333 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 3: a way they were going to be able to grow 334 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,479 Speaker 3: in a country that would be different. One of the 335 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 3: things that I thought all the time was I am 336 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 3: doing something that is going to make these girls have 337 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 3: a better life than I ever had and they will 338 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 3: never have to do this what I am doing to 339 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 3: gain their freedom and to be able to have a 340 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 3: life that is not dangerous and that is free and just. 341 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 3: And one of the most awful things that happened to 342 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 3: me when the Contra War began was the first time 343 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 3: I had to take my kids, my two girls, to 344 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 3: a burial of one of their friends that have been 345 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 3: killed in the military service. So when that happened, it 346 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 3: was very hard. Now, what I think is that when 347 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 3: I see them as grown up women, as mothers, I 348 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 3: have a poem about that. 349 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 7: It's called the Mother of My. 350 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,439 Speaker 3: Daughters, because it's really I see that I must have 351 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 3: done something good because they are amazing people. So that's 352 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,959 Speaker 3: my consolation. But yes, it was hard for them, it 353 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 3: was hard for me, and I think all of us 354 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 3: women go through that. More and more women are faced 355 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 3: with that problem, and it's a problem because the way 356 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 3: the society is organized, especially the world of labor, is 357 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 3: organized for men. 358 00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 7: Who have wives. 359 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 3: Exactly, you don't have a wife if you don't have 360 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 3: anybody at home that is going to take care of 361 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 3: the domestic part. Yes you're going to have that problem. 362 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 3: But you know that's why I wrote a novel called 363 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 3: The Country of Women. 364 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 2: One thing Joconda is. As we were talking, I was like, 365 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,639 Speaker 2: you know, people don't realize that Nicaragua is a country 366 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 2: of poets. You're a poet, said Ramirez, is a poet 367 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,679 Speaker 2: in Esto Cardinal. These are all people who ran the 368 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 2: government of Nicaragua, run by poets. And a few months 369 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,439 Speaker 2: ago you were awarded from Spain the Reina Sofia Ibero 370 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 2: American Poetry Prize, one of the most important literature words 371 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 2: for writers in Spanish. Yeah, congratulations, I know. I mean also, 372 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 2: the governments of Chile and of Spain have offered you 373 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:58,479 Speaker 2: and people exiled from Nicaragua citizenship, and you accepted that 374 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 2: from Spain. And even though we love Madrid, it's a 375 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 2: great phenomenal place to be. Must that do be that? Like? 376 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 2: How is your life at this moment? 377 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 7: Well? 378 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 3: I think about Cisiphus. You know, Camille has this beautiful 379 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 3: essay about Cicipho, this mythical figure that was punished by 380 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 3: having to bring a rock up to the top of 381 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 3: a hill and then the rock will always go back down. 382 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 3: And Commue said that one had to find the rebeling 383 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 3: oneself that would do that with joy, that would find 384 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,439 Speaker 3: the joy of having to bring the rock down instead 385 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 3: of feeling defeated. And so I feel a little bit 386 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 3: like Sisiphus. But I am a very privileged and happy 387 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 3: ciciphus because I love Madrid. I think the solidarity of 388 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 3: the Spanish people with me have been amazing. 389 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 7: It's consoled me so much. 390 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,439 Speaker 3: I feel recognized, I feel accepted, and you know, my 391 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 3: everyday life is. I live in a very small apartment, 392 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 3: but it's fine. I have never been too attached to things. 393 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,360 Speaker 3: I have been in and out of houses for most 394 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,719 Speaker 3: of my life. But it's had I miss my house, 395 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 3: I miss my dogs. I had to leave the dogs, 396 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 3: my books, you know. So it's a kind of strange feeling. 397 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 3: But I don't have a tragic spirit, so I tried 398 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 3: to see a good side. 399 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,120 Speaker 7: I have a sister here that. 400 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 3: I almost never saw before. I have been traveling a lot, 401 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 3: so I have a busy life and I feel safe. 402 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 3: The feeling of fear that we had in Nicaragua since 403 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 3: twenty eighteen, you never knew what was going to happen 404 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 3: to you. You never knew when they were going to 405 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 3: come for you. Because it was a crazy it's a 406 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 3: very irrational way of governing they do and real things. 407 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 3: I mean, for example, now they are not letting into 408 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 3: the country people who are family members of the ones 409 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 3: that have been stripped of their nationality, and so any 410 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 3: family member when they leave the country are always afraid 411 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 3: if they're wing to be allowed to come back, and 412 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 3: many of them have not been allowed to come back. 413 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 2: When you say you feel safe now, I'm like, there 414 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 2: was a time when it was the United States that 415 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 2: was actually making it unsafe for you in your country 416 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 2: in Nicaragua. And so just for a moment for the Americans, right, yeah, 417 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 2: Parlos Americanos who are kind of unaware of how deeply 418 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 2: involved the United States has been in terms of the 419 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 2: political history of Nicaragua and the ugly political history of 420 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 2: Nikaera and other Central American nations, what would you say 421 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 2: to them. 422 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 3: Well, you know, the foreign policy of the United States 423 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 3: tour Central America has been dismal and was horrible during 424 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 3: the eighties and during the Reagan administration. I mean, part 425 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 3: of the reason why the Nicaragan revolution under this revolution 426 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 3: failed was because it was attacked relentlessly by the Reagan 427 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 3: administration and we had to dedicate a lot of effort 428 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 3: to the war when we would have wanted to be 429 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 3: teaching people how to read and write. So that was 430 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 3: I feel an incredible resentment for the time that the 431 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 3: United States had that policy in Nicaragua. I think it's changed. 432 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 3: I think it's better now. But I had a lot 433 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 3: of trouble going to live in the United States. They 434 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 3: had classified me as an ineligible alien because before Pedestroika 435 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 3: and all that, they had the mccaren Walters Act, and 436 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 3: that established ideological exclusions. 437 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 2: You were a threat. That you were perceived to be 438 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 2: a communist back then was the worst thing ever. 439 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 3: So I was ideologically excluded, and every time I had 440 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 3: to go to the United States, especially when I began 441 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 3: to go out with Charlie and we wanted to be 442 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 3: to get it was very hard. I mean I spent 443 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 3: a lot of time trying to get my residency. It 444 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 3: was very hard. I cannot tell you my fear every 445 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 3: time I went through US immigration. 446 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 2: Jukonda, I know that you know what day it is today. 447 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 2: It is in fact, on July nineteenth that you and 448 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 2: I are speaking. And for those people who know, if 449 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 2: you know, you know, July nineteenth, nineteen seventy nine is 450 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 2: the moment of the Sandinista revolutionary triumph. It was extraordinary. 451 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 2: I don't think it's my chance that you and I 452 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 2: are talking on Elisinoe Julio. But here's my final question. 453 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 2: You have always said that you consider yourself a little 454 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 2: bit of a bruja una ruhita, a witch, basically, somebody 455 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 2: who can predict things. So any visions that you have 456 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 2: for the future of your country or even for you, 457 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 2: and if you'll ever go. 458 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 3: Back, Oh, that's a hard question right now, because my 459 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 3: which's powers are not very good at this moment. 460 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 2: We needed to rep them up. I didn't give you 461 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 2: enough of a warning. 462 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 3: I envisioned a different time for the whole world, because 463 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 3: I think we are going through a bad period, but 464 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,959 Speaker 3: these bad periods give rise to good periods, and so 465 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 3: it's like this constant circle. And I can't believe that 466 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 3: humanity is going to not realize its potential. And I 467 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 3: do feel that women are going to have a huge 468 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 3: part in this new era that we have to inaugurate. 469 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 2: We're in the womb of the darkness, but hopefully there 470 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 2: will be light on the other side. Kona, you wanted 471 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 2: to read a poem for us, so tell us a 472 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 2: little bit about why and what you chose. 473 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 4: Well. 474 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 3: This is a poem that I wrote once I realized 475 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 3: I was out of Nicaragua and didn't know where I 476 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 3: was going to be. This is a poem a but 477 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 3: my feeling of loss, but also my feeling of strength. 478 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 3: I have nowhere to live. I have nowhere to live. 479 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 3: I chose the word. My books were left behind, my home, 480 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 3: the garden, its huming birds, the massive palms, named Bismarck 481 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 3: for their imposing presence. 482 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 7: I have no place to live. I chose the word to. 483 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 3: Speak for those who are silenced, to understand the rage 484 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 3: that nothing can appease. 485 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 7: Every door is shut. 486 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 3: I left the white sofas, the terrace, the dancing volcanoes 487 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 3: in the distance, the lakes, phosphorescent skin night revealing the 488 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 3: city's multi colored lights. 489 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 7: I left, carrying my words. 490 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 3: Under my arm. They are my crime, my sin. Not 491 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 3: even God could force me to recant. My dogs, my 492 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 3: Condo and Caramelo, left behind the sweet shape of their faces, 493 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 3: their love from nose to tail. My bed with its 494 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 3: mosquito net, the place to close my eyes and imagine 495 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 3: a world transformed according to my wishes. It was not 496 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 3: to be it was not to be. I want to 497 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 3: speak the future now, to speak my heart throw up 498 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 3: revulsion and disgust. My clothes, idle in the closet, my shoes, 499 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 3: the landscape of my days and nights, the sofa where 500 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,799 Speaker 3: I write, the windows I have taken to the streets 501 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 3: with my words. I embrace them, I choose them. I 502 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 3: am free even if I have nothing. 503 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 2: Your I'm sorry. 504 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 3: Oh, I am sorry too. 505 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 2: That's what I'm like. I'm like you see, that's why 506 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 2: you love because she makes you cry, even when you're alone, 507 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 2: or when you're lucky enough to have it serenaded to 508 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 2: you in your ears. Oh my god, that was so beautiful. 509 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,240 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining me on Latino USA. 510 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 2: Joconda Asi the om plasaid, I wish I could hug you. 511 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 2: That would be my greatest joy is to give you 512 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 2: a hug. 513 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 7: So happy to hear you. 514 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Victoria Strada and edited by 515 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 2: Andrea Lopez Russado. It was mixed by Julia Caruso. The 516 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 2: Latino USA team also includes Marta Martinez like Sargent, Daisy Contreras, 517 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:33,319 Speaker 2: Rinaldo Leanos Junior, Patricia Subran, and Elizabeth Loental Torres. Our 518 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 2: editorial director is Bernandes Santos. Our director of engineering is 519 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 2: Stephanie Lebau. Our associate engineers are Gabriel Lebiez and JJ Carubin. 520 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 2: Our marketing manager is Res Luna. Our theme music was 521 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,360 Speaker 2: composed by Sane Rubinos. I'm your host and executive producer 522 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 2: Maria jo Josa. Join us again on our next episode. 523 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 2: In the meantime, look for us on all of your 524 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 2: social media and remember note bayas Ciao. 525 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 8: Latino USA is made possible in part by California Endowment, 526 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 8: building a strong state by improving the health of all Californians, 527 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 8: the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, and the 528 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 8: Heising Simons Foundation unlocking knowledge, opportunity, and possibilities. More at 529 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 8: hsfoundation dot org. 530 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 2: You know you're You're the expert at the pen Dalaiospital 531 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 2: is day. I can't wait to see you