WEBVTT - It's So Hard To Say Goodbye 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.440 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:16.080 Forward Thinking, Taylor, and welcome to Forward Thinking, love podcast 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:18.640 that looks in the future and says it's so hard 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:24.160 to say goodbye to tomorrow. I'm Jonathan Stripling and I'm 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:28.920 Joe McCormick. So, guys, this is it. Um. This is 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:33.760 our final episode of the audio podcast format for Forward Thinking. 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:37.760 And uh, this was not something that we were uh 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:40.680 pushing for. It's something that kind of happened. The video 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:43.760 series is going to continue on. We really appreciate all 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:46.159 you fans out there who have been sending us messages 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:48.320 all this time. Uh, And we didn't want to just 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:51.839 leave with like an episode and then have nothing happened. 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:54.480 So this is kind of our goodbye episode. We wanted 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:56.960 to spend a little time thinking about some of the 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:59.200 topics that we talked about in the past and kind 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:01.720 of just going a little bit stuff about the episodes 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:04.520 we've done so far. First, before we even get started, 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:07.800 I want to play this tiny clip from the very 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:11.680 first episode of Forward Thinking's audio podcast called forward Momentum. 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:14.640 Welcome to Forward Thinking. This is how we introduced ourselves 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:17.720 in that very first episode. Greetings, everyone, Welcome to the 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:21.120 very first episode of Forward Thinking. I am your host, 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:25.440 Jonathan Strickland, and I am joined by two phenomenal people, 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:28.319 two of my favorite people the whole wide world. And 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:30.720 I'm going to have the first one introduce herself to 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:33.800 you right now. Hey, I'm Lauren Vocalbon. I'm the co 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:36.920 host of another technology podcast called tech Stuff. I am 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:39.840 Joe McCormick, and I'm a writer for the Forward Thinking 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:43.360 video series Excellent and so this audio pod. Okay, so 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:46.840 we livened up a bit since then, did Yeah, it 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:49.280 was my very reserved You were a little reserved, but 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:52.600 I mean you were. Joe had just started podcasting when 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:55.440 he joined UH and we started doing the Forward Thinking 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:58.200 Audio podcast and now you're a pro. So, yeah, that 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:01.120 was year. That was your first time podcasting ever for 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:04.080 that first episode, was it? Yes? It was. So. I 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:05.800 thought we could touch a little bit on some of 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:08.080 the topics that we've covered, talk about some of our favorites, 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:10.200 and just some other like behind the scenes type stuff 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:14.240 in a very short kind of farewell to the fans episode. Now, 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:16.840 we've recently done episodes where we talked about three D 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:19.320 printers again and driverless cars, We talked about that in 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:22.040 an episode like two back, so I don't want to 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:25.640 even touch on those because we've already just covered them. 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:28.320 But the very first topic we covered on Forward Thinking 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:30.400 was the Internet of Things, which is no big surprise. 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:34.720 It's a huge topic, very buzzy. It was especially buzzy 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:37.639 right that very moment. Yes, it's still still buzzing right now, 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:39.960 but it was one of those things where there was 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:43.040 the topic was just starting to get some momentum in 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.320 the public consciousness. Although I think there are still a 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:47.120 lot of people who don't know what the Internet of 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:52.720 things means. But recent stories have you know, been uh 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:55.120 continuing to develop around the Internet of things. The basic 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.280 idea being that you have all these different devices that 0:02:57.320 --> 0:02:59.680 can connect to the Internet and share information in some 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:05.200 way or enact change in your environment in some way. Um. 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:07.480 But one of the stories I wanted to mention is 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:12.239 that apparently that also means creating lots more security vulnerabilities. Yeah. Yeah, 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:13.960 You've got a ton of stuff connected to the Internet, 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:16.480 to make sense, Yeah, and not all of it is 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:20.240 as protected as your notebook or yes, and you're less 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:24.799 protected items. People are still terrible at passwords, right, So 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:27.280 One problem is that you've got a lot of Internet 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:29.799 of Things devices that don't have any password protection at all. 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:33.160 Another problem is that some of them have hard coded passwords, 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:35.560 meaning that if you get access to what a company 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:38.640 uses as the hard code password for that particular product, 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.480 it's open season. And then a lot of people just 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:46.280 never bother changing the the standard password that comes like 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:50.000 with a router. For example, I got a new router, 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:52.680 and so I went in and changed the password because 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:56.040 the default password was password. Do you remember when we 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.160 did the story about the baby monitors that we're being 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:02.160 taken over by hackers from all over the world to 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:05.240 watch it on other people's babies and talk to them 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:08.640 and like yell at them and tell them to start crying. Yep, 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.960 that's not not cool. Uh. And I think that was 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.760 because of unchanged default passwords. Yeah, yeah, it exactly was. 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:19.520 What What wasn't there a story about like like utility centers, 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.279 like like river dams or something like that having the 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:25.600 software in them that had unchanged passwords. There were there 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:28.400 were stories of there were stories of they were using 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:32.120 baby monitors to control the damns. There were stories of 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:34.640 of code found in some of those systems where it 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:39.720 was clear that foreign agents had managed to infiltrate the 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:43.400 systems of various important utility companies across the United States 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:46.120 and put in code that was not meant to be there, 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:50.039 uh through whatever. Who knows how it got there. It 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:52.279 could have gotten there by a thumb drive or you 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:55.400 know anything. But the reason why I bring up Internet 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:57.680 things in particular is that recently there was a story 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:00.960 that I saw in tech Dirt about a security researcher 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:04.400 named Brian Krebs who was the target of a directed 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:08.200 denial of service attack a di DOS attack, where apparently 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:10.480 he was being hit by a six twenty gigabits per 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:14.680 second of traffic to the website that he he has. 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:17.479 That's a lot of gigabits. Gigabits, Yeah, when a Google 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:20.040 Fiber connection is one gigabit per second and that's way 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:24.200 faster than anything I have. Six twenty is massive. And 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:27.200 the they suspect that the a lot of this traffic 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:31.560 came from Internet of Things devices like digital video recorders 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:35.680 and routers. This means that the hacker who was perpetrating 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.479 the attack and captured lots of devices out in the 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:43.320 wild essentially made them work for him. Or her. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:47.000 very much. So. Uh, there are other issues with Internet things, 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:49.359 like the concept of privacy. We've talked about this before, 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:51.720 the idea that if you have an environment that's going 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:55.880 to react to you and change according to your preferences, 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.120 it has to know about you in order to do that, 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:00.320 which means you give up some of your private to see, 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:02.960 even if it's not your name or any other kind 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:07.120 of demographic information about you, it starts to learn your preferences, 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:12.039 which alone is a very valuable database of information for 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:16.240 lots of different companies. And as it turns out, just 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:19.440 if you want an Internet of things that is customizable 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:24.880 and personalized, then you have to Yeah. Yeah, so that's 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:28.599 growing concern. All that being said, I still think the 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:32.840 Internet of things concept is really cool, but um, you know, 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:36.040 it's we we need to be really aware of how 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:38.960 we develop and implement that technology in order to do 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:42.800 it responsibly. Some of the other cool things we talked 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:44.800 about in those early episodes. So I was going back 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:46.520 through and I was looking at all the different titles 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:49.560 and stuff. I reminded I was reminded that how much 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:52.240 I loved the episodes we did about time. Oh that 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:54.920 was fun. Yeah, talking about how time is dependent upon 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:58.080 your context, right, your frame of reference. So if you're 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:00.640 traveling super fast and and some one else is on 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:04.720 is not traveling super fast. From your perspective, traveling super fast, 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:08.840 it looks like their life is just whishing by, and 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:11.720 from their perspective, it would look like you are barely 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:15.640 moving at all within the frame of one. Yeah, that 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:18.720 that episode gave me a headache, I remember, because it 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:22.120 was all like time is relative, literally relative to your 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:25.720 frame of reference. That's why we say that. I know 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:28.840 some people take that to mean that time does not exist, 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:32.040 to which I disagree. Yeah, I saw a recent article 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:37.120 about people suggesting that time was merely a construct in 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:39.640 our minds. It was essentially our brain's way of making 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.640 sense of things, and that times arrow doesn't point in 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:46.880 one direction because if you start looking at massive calculations 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:49.800 on the galactic scale, they are reversible, whether time travels 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:51.880 in one direction or the other. So it may just 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:54.600 be that at our very tiny local level, we have 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:56.640 to have time going in a specific way or else 0:07:56.680 --> 0:08:02.560 things don't make sense. And like what but what I think? 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:05.800 Time definitely does exist, but it's possible that the present 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:09.520 does not exist. I get presents all the time. We 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:13.320 also talked about some pop culture stuff. Two of my 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:17.080 favorite episodes We've ever done. Yeah, those back to Back 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:19.960 to the Future part two, parts one and two where 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:22.480 it was back to Back to the Future to part two. 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:26.000 That was my favorite title ever. Those those were some 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:28.640 great episodes. Yeah, that's where we learned that everyone will 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:30.960 have a fax machine in every room of their house. Yes, 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:33.560 many people would be Michael J. Fox. Did we rate 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:36.240 that true? I think we said that was a good one, right, 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:39.000 it might have been. I it's been a long time. 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:41.800 The what's the pizza disc where they stick a little 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:45.360 pizza disk? You really know how to hydrated pizza? Yeah? Yeah, 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:48.199 and half of the pizza had just had bell peppers 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:51.080 on it, and I was like, what is wrong with you? 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:53.240 You know? One of my favorite episodes we ever did 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:57.680 was the one about the future of talking, the future 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:00.520 of speech. Maybe not the future of talk. That's not 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:03.240 how should put it? Language the languages that we speak, 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:07.080 because languages change over time. They evolve over time just 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:11.560 like organisms do, but on much shorter time scales and 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:14.600 in very interesting ways. One of my favorite classes I 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.160 took in college was the history of the English language, 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:21.280 learning about how English has changed since you know, the 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.400 year eight hundred, and it has changed dramatically since then, 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:27.240 it very much. Yeah, an English speaker today without a 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:31.120 lot of training could not read Old English Anglo Saxon 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:33.400 would need to have You would sit there and say like, 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:36.400 I'm pretty sure this is Germany. Yeah, yeah, And and 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:38.480 we we also got to to read a bunch of 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:42.280 of of different bits of language from from uh, like 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:44.600 a hundred years in the past, each time like seventy 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:46.319 years in the past, something like that. We jumped back 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:55.640 and back and back until the old English thought yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:09:55.679 --> 0:10:01.320 it's my favorite. Hailing did the h for the Middle English? 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:08.640 Yeah yeah, okay, fair enough, Okay, No, So we we 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:11.000 talked about how language changes over time, and we tried 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:13.880 to think, okay, well, looking at how language has changed 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:15.920 in the past, can we make predictions about the future. 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:19.240 We made a few, but but we weren't able to 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:22.080 make all that many predictions about how English is going 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:24.040 to change in the future, because I don't know, it's 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:26.360 hard to predict things like this. But I went back 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:29.360 to see if there had been anything interesting published on 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:32.880 this topic since our podcast came out. And Son of 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:36.520 a Gun. One really interesting article I read was from 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:40.000 The Economist and it was published just about a month 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:42.880 after our podcast came out. This is the problem there, 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:46.680 and it would have been a great resource for us 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:49.840 because it was really interested interesting. So it pointed out 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:53.800 one thing about English that is going to be highly 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:56.560 determinative of how it changes in the future, which is 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:59.320 that about two thirds of the people who speak English 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:03.360 in the world are not native English speakers. More people 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:06.280 speak English as a non native language than as a 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:10.600 native language, and so it's possible that English has actually 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.520 used more as a kind of lingua franca around the 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:17.440 world then it is as somebody's default speaking language. And 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.800 there's no real sign of this reversing. So what does 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.440 this mean for the future of English and uh And 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:27.160 the article pointed out that linguistics researchers have short they've 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:30.640 sort of shown that bigger languages that you know, incorporate 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:34.520 more speakers, tend to become simpler. As a language is 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:38.600 spoken by more non native adults, it's likely to lose 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:44.920 unnecessary bits and rules such as grammatical inflection. Jonathan, you 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.360 know this from the history of English. English used to 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:52.560 have different versions of the same word depending on what 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:56.160 grammatical role that word played in English, and some languages 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:58.720 are still like this. Well yeah, like English used to 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:03.040 have different words or you as a singular you, and 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:06.400 you as in a group of people you. In fact, 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:09.240 if you get down to it, it had you you 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:13.000 too and all of you guys, which we we in 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:15.240 the South still have because we have y'all, and that 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:18.880 that's a totally different type of that's true all y'all, 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.120 which is way more people than just y'all. Oh man, 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:23.760 I love all y'all. Y'all is a good word. I 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:28.280 think all English speakers should adopt y'all. But but anyway, 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:31.440 so the example that that is given in the article 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:36.880 of the grammatical inflection changing would be who versus whom. 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:40.000 So it's the same word, but it changes whether based 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:42.120 on whether you're using it is the subject or the 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:44.800 object and the sentence. English used to have this kind 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:47.680 of thing for all kinds of words, and most of 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:50.320 these have already gone away, and whom is probably going 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:53.120 to disappear as well. But we can expect similar types 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:56.920 of streamlining of the rules of language. And in a 0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:59.720 good way to figure this out is to listen to 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:03.760 a adults trying to learn to speak English. Whatever is 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:08.440 tripping them up the most, say like verb tense aspect, 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:11.640 which is where there are three different forms of the 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:15.600 present tense. So like, uh, let's say you know you've 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.160 got a saw and you're sawing a board, so you 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:22.120 say I saw. You can also say I am sawing. 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:26.480 You can also say I do saw. You're no matter 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:28.880 what you're sawing? All the what? What is with all 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:32.560 these different tense cases? This is stupid. We're probably going 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:36.880 to lose stuff like that. I'm okay with most of that. Yeah, 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:40.800 we we can also expect dialects and pronunciation to continue 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:43.960 to change. All the Northern cities shift in how we 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:48.200 pronounce American vowels that we mentioned that in our old episode. 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.440 And another interesting thing they pointed out in this article 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:55.800 is is sort of eui isms, which is how we're 0:13:55.920 --> 0:14:01.199 the meanings of words changing based on words in English 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:05.760 being misused because similar sounding words means something different in 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:10.240 another language. Yes, so they give a great example of this. 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:12.320 I'm just going to read a quote from the article. Quote. 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:16.840 For example, European Union bureaucrats are likely to use the 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:23.360 English control to mean monitor or verify because controller or 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:28.200 controllery in have this meaning. In French and German. Other 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:34.320 examples are assist for attend and actual for current. Yeah, 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:37.240 control being used to mean monitor a verif I could 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:41.280 cause some real confusion right now, Yeah, yeah, because you 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:43.800 use that in just the you know you're talking about 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.080 like let's say, let's say that you're talking about monitoring 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:48.280 the behavior of a crowd. If you're talking about controlling 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:50.600 the behavior of a crowd, that has a totally different meaning, 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:52.800 right yeah, yeah, And I'm sure it could lead to 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:55.840 those kinds of confusions. But but yeah, I don't know 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:57.600 that that was really interesting to me. I don't know, 0:14:57.640 --> 0:14:59.600 maybe this is more interesting to me than it is 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:03.320 to other but trying to imagine just how the very 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:06.120 words we speak will be different. Well, and we had 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:10.240 so many episodes that kind of we're spokes connected to 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:12.800 this concept, right. We had the ones where we said, well, 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.280 how do you create a language that people will be 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:17.920 able to understand ten thousand years from now? Right? How 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:22.360 do you create ways of alerting people to your intent 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:24.560 when you have no way of knowing how how the 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.520 language is going to evolve change, Maybe even the language 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:30.760 you're using is completely eradicated by the time, and and 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:33.760 you need that for certain things like telling people, hey, 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:35.840 this is where we stored all our nuclear waste. Don't 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:38.000 go in here, exactly touch it, don't put it in 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:40.680 your eyeballs. It's going to be dangerous for longer than 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:46.200 your language exists, and exactly on eyestalks. That's a great 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:48.600 way of saying that. We also had an episode about 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.800 how would we talk to aliens? Like, we really did 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:54.240 focus on language in quite a few episodes. And and 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:56.800 possibly because we're in English major, I was about to 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:59.360 make the same reference. Yes, the fact that we're English 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:01.840 majors probably had something to do with that, but it's 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:04.200 it is a really interesting to think about, the thing 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:06.720 to think about. I don't think we're ever going to 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:09.960 get to the point where we only uh communicate in 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.760 references and metaphor the way that Star Trek Next Generation 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:17.920 episode everyone likes but is actually secretly terrible um dead 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:25.280 the Star Trek episodes, Yes, Darmak so Picard beams down 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:28.840 to a planet he's down with an alien leader. They 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:32.360 do not the universal translator will not translate what the 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:35.640 guy is saying, and the guy only speaks in um 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:40.240 in in references to things that are relevant in his culture. 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:44.360 So like if he wants to say right if well, 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:47.080 sadly no, or interpretive dance would have been great too, 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:49.920 but neither is true. So so if he wanted to say, 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:51.640 you and I need to work together in order to 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:54.080 overcome this challenge, instead he would say like Darmak and 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:57.360 jannad at Tanagra, that would be because in his culture 0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:01.160 that references a story of two powl who used to 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:03.880 be at cross purposes, but who then work together to 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:08.080 overcome a third problem. Uh, that would be. But the 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:10.440 issue I have there is that unless you have a language, 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.199 you cannot build the stories that you then use as 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.159 reference to communicate your ideas. Well, maybe they had a 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:19.280 language and they forgotten and now, but how do you 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:21.960 That seems like a really inefficient way to teach people 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:25.600 how to communicate, like talking you to a baby, like 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:27.840 once they get to the point where they are beyond 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:30.359 making the actual sounds like all right, now, I gotta 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:35.320 teach you an entire sentence to mean this general idea 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.560 that that can be applied to anything that falls within 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:42.600 that general idea. I can imagine that maybe if all 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:45.560 teaching of language is done with visual aids, like if 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:48.040 they don't just have books that are just text, but 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:53.080 everything is like captions accompanying images. Yeah, maybe, sure, Sure. 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:56.639 There was an interesting play by by Johnny Drago that 0:17:56.680 --> 0:18:00.280 happened here in Atlanta that positive um that that in 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:04.520 some not too distant future are archaeologists would would find 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:07.960 scraps of of of what we know today's human language 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:13.439 and call it proto emoji. I both love it and 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:18.000 hate it at the same time. That's fantastic, Jonathan, what's 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:21.960 your favorite emoji? I mean, poop, It's always going to 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:24.680 be the answer. I'm a big fan of the alligator. 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:26.920 I don't know why. Sometimes I just send my wife 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:30.600 an alligator, very very rarely. I mean the closest I 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:32.879 I use are still emoticons. I don't tend to use 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:36.000 a lot of emojis. Some some of the chat stuff 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:39.480 will automatically translate an emoticon into an emoji. Was so 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:41.760 mad about that, Like, if I wanted an emoji, I 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:43.199 would have put it in there. I just wanted to 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.359 colon end up, you know, a closed parentheses. I didn't 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:51.560 want it to be like this weird gaping smiling thing. Uh, 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:55.960 but I'm old So, okay, I've got another favorite episode. Okay, 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:57.600 you don't want to tell us about your favorite emoji? 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.320 Oh you did? You did? Alligator? Like alg it? And 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.480 I like the devil. I like I like the I 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:05.919 like the cat, not the cat face, the kind of 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:11.639 disdainful cat. Yeah, yeah, cat frowning upon you. Yeah. I 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:13.199 don't know how a cat that's like less than a 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:16.560 centimeter manages to still look disdainful. It's like a cat's superpower, 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:20.119 pretty sure. Disdainful cat and devil or suck it petting? 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:25.240 All right, what any other favorite episodes you want to cover? Yeah? 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:27.240 There was one I remembered that I had a lot 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:29.359 of fun thinking about, and it was the one about 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:32.480 what happens when a robot breaks the law? Where we 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:36.600 were covering a couple of stories about computer programs that 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:42.720 had had had done something autonomously that required the attention 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:46.639 of law enforcement. Now, it's not any big problem to 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:50.840 imagine what should be done when a robot does a 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:55.480 essentially performs a directed action that it was program to do, 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:58.080 and then it breaks the law. Right then you would 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:01.840 you would argue whoever, whomever programmed the robot would be 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:04.840 at fault. Yeah, but what about when when robots or 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:10.760 computer programs autonomously do something that has harmful legal repercussions, 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:13.560 but nobody directly told it to do that, It's just 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:19.359 emergent behavior. Uh. And so I really remember thinking that 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:22.880 was a very interesting problem problem to think about, like 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:26.159 what it makes you consider, what is the nature of 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:30.040 legal and moral responsibility? Who really should bear it? And 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:32.400 then also I know that you guys did an episode 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:36.399 without me about robot personhood, which I think sort of 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:40.159 revisited this topic, didn't. Yeah, definitely, it wasn't on purpose. 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:42.120 We wanted you to be there. You just weren't there 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:44.240 for whatever personal reason you had for not being there 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:46.520 that day. We weren't like, let us exclude Joe from 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:49.119 this episode. That's when I was out of town for 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:52.400 something I would imagine so um but but yeah, yeah, 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:55.960 the episode was called Our Robots Electronic Persons. It was 0:20:56.000 --> 0:21:00.199 from July of this year. Um, And we did it 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:04.200 because the European Parliament had released a proposal for civil 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:08.760 laws that relate to robotics um and very much so 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:12.639 talked about section of this proposal discussed possibilities for robot 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:16.199 person right. Essentially, this was a committee that said, we 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:18.399 got together to think about these things that we've been 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:20.679 saying we should think about for quite some time, and 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:23.560 here's what we concluded. And they had some suggestions, but 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:26.199 nothing that was definitive. Right. It wasn't like this was 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:28.520 going to be enacted into law. Yeah, it was more like, 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:31.080 we really should have a committee that's thinking about this thing, 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:33.679 that can create something that can be enacted into Right, 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:36.639 here's here's a here are some basic ideas that we 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:38.959 could head toward. But we're not suggesting this is the 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:41.600 end goal. Rather, these are the sort of things that 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:44.520 these dedicated committees should talk about. It was a meeting 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:46.840 calling for more meetings, yeah, but they were also being 0:21:46.840 --> 0:21:50.320 more They're also calling for people who were experts not 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:54.400 just in the technology, but also in social social law, 0:21:54.560 --> 0:21:58.400 things that would be important to make sure they could 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:01.080 roll out also throughout the entire European Union and not 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:04.800 They didn't want to see a future where various countries 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:08.080 were taking their own approaches to this and creating an 0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:11.480 incompatible system within the European Union. So it was actually 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:14.840