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Speaker 1: Trust me? Do you trust me?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: Ever lead you a story?

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Speaker 1: Trust? This is the truth, the only truth.

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Speaker 3: If anybody ever tells you to just trust them, don't

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Speaker 3: welcome to trust me. The podcast about cult, extreme belief

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Speaker 3: and manipulation from two cult hoppers who have actually experienced it.

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Speaker 3: I'm Lola Blanc and I sound a little bit different

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Speaker 3: today because I am recovering from a throat thing.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Megan Elizabeth and I sound exactly the same.

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Speaker 4: Don't I sound like sexy?

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Speaker 3: Though?

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Speaker 4: Like I like it. It's got a little rasp.

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Speaker 3: For those who have not heard about this on my

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Speaker 3: social media, I got this illness the night of a

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Speaker 3: show that.

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Speaker 4: I played at it. It was horr effect. It was

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Speaker 4: a nightmare. Okay.

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Speaker 3: This week, Nikki g host of Surviving the Black Church

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Speaker 3: and survivor of count Them five different high control groups,

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Speaker 3: is with us and we'll discuss joining the first church

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Speaker 3: on her cult hopping journey, how she initially got pulled

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Speaker 3: down the rabbit hole by conspiracy theories and the Book

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Speaker 3: of Revelation, and the intensity and community that drew her

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Speaker 3: to each group.

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Speaker 2: She'll tell us about her second and more radical group.

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Speaker 2: I hop in our National House of prayer, how she

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Speaker 2: eventually learned the term religious addiction, and why the idea

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Speaker 2: of waiting for your boaz or your perfect husband can

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Speaker 2: be so harmful for women.

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Speaker 3: Indeed, it is so hard to hear I Hop and

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Speaker 3: not think about pancakes.

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Speaker 4: I know, I love I Hop.

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Speaker 3: I made myself pancakes last night. Ah, I haven't done

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Speaker 3: that in probably twelve years. So listen, we got pancakes

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Speaker 3: on the brain.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god.

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Speaker 3: Before we jump in with Nikki and she's so amazing

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Speaker 3: by the way, like we've been trying to make this

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Speaker 3: interview happen for literally years.

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Speaker 4: I'm so glad we did. But before we do, Megan,

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Speaker 4: what's your cultiest thing of the week.

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Speaker 2: Well, here's a question for you. Have you seen Maternal

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Speaker 2: Instinct yet on Nutflix?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 4: What is it? Okay, it's my cultiest thing of the week.

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Speaker 2: It's a Netflix documentary that everyone was like, you have

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Speaker 2: to watch it, you have to watch it, and I

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Speaker 2: was like, whatever, it's terrifying, horrifying, horrible tragedy. But it

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Speaker 2: does bring up a lot of discussions about this relationship

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Speaker 2: that is at the center of it. And I'll just

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Speaker 2: quickly lay it out. It's essentially a man starts dating

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Speaker 2: this woman and she says that she's pregnant and he

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Speaker 2: doesn't really believe her, but he doesn't know, and everybody

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Speaker 2: else around her is like, it can't she can't be pregnant.

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Speaker 4: She doesn't have a womb.

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Speaker 2: So the hospital's on code pink, which means like, there's

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Speaker 2: a woman who might try to steal a baby.

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Speaker 4: You know, from the nursery.

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Speaker 2: Oh, and then tragedy unfolds and one of the most

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Speaker 2: horrific ways, And there's a lot of discourse online of

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Speaker 2: like was he to blame as well? And we talk

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Speaker 2: a lot about how relationships can be culty, and to me,

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Speaker 2: this was such a perfect example of it.

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Speaker 4: I don't really like him as a person.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he seemed innocuous enough, but like, I really

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Speaker 2: it's hard to watch how he's treating the animals in

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Speaker 2: the show, for sure, And yeah, I really I can't

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Speaker 2: decide where I'm landing on it with him, But I

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Speaker 2: do think it's an interesting question to ask, like when

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Speaker 2: these two person relationships become culty and how much responsibility

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Speaker 2: do you bear when you're under course of control and

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Speaker 2: do influence and all of the things that sociopaths put

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Speaker 2: us through. So looking forward to you watching it, wondering

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Speaker 2: about your thoughts and if you don't like really sad stuff,

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Speaker 2: don't watch it.

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Speaker 4: Okay, interesting?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I also think it's interesting what we

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Speaker 3: lean toward depending on what the gender of the victim is,

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Speaker 3: Like that can I think also influence our perception of

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Speaker 3: like who qualifies as a victim. But I haven't seen

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Speaker 3: the show, so I have no idea, so I'm so curious.

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Speaker 1: Watch.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's only an hour and thirty minutes. It's not

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Speaker 2: as series or anything, so it's a quick watch. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and it's hard. It's a hard watch. But okay, okay,

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Speaker 2: worth the discussion. What about you, what's the cultiest thing

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Speaker 2: of your week?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 3: I also was going to bring up a documentary, but

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Speaker 3: a different one. This one is our former guest and

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Speaker 3: friend of the show, uh one that he is a

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Speaker 3: big part of Hoyt Richards. If folks remember, Hoyt Richards

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Speaker 3: was a male supermodel around the time when all of

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Speaker 3: the like icons supermodels were becoming superstars.

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Speaker 4: Hoyt was right there with them as like one of

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Speaker 4: the men.

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Speaker 3: And this new docusman, yes, gorgeous man, This new docu

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Speaker 3: series is called Bring Me the Beauties, a model cult

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Speaker 3: on HBO.

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Speaker 4: I have not watched it yet. I'm so excited to watch.

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Speaker 3: It because so the episode, I mean, hoyt story is

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Speaker 3: so compelling, first of all, because like we just don't

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Speaker 3: get to hear from male victims that often. And also

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Speaker 3: just like he was at the peak of his career,

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Speaker 3: he was making a ton of money, he was giving

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Speaker 3: it all to this guy, this cult leader, and his

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Speaker 3: escape is like so dramatic and just he's been through

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Speaker 3: so much, so it's already just like so compelling. But

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Speaker 3: also in the context of this eighties like supermodel culture,

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Speaker 3: everyone's gorgeous. We'd only ever at least I had only

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Speaker 3: ever heard it from him, and now you get to

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Speaker 3: actually see footage of all of these people and what

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Speaker 3: he looked like at that age, and what the cult

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Speaker 3: leader looked like.

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Speaker 4: Everyone's gorgeous.

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Speaker 3: Like, it's really a very unique kind of cult story.

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Speaker 3: And of course alien based belief systems, which are that's

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Speaker 3: always my favorite kind of group. So I'm just really

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Speaker 3: excited to watch, and I'm so proud of hoit for

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Speaker 3: like getting to share his story in a bigger way.

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Speaker 3: He's an awesome person and just yeah, everybody should watch it.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna go watch it, but also re listen to

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Speaker 2: our episode with him, just because that was a couple

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Speaker 2: of years ago.

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Speaker 4: I want to want to be a real reminded. Yeah

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Speaker 4: of that, it's been a minute, and maybe we should

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Speaker 4: have him back on. I don't know, squeak. I have

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Speaker 4: always when when I try to you need to be

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Speaker 4: in a cartoon stat I've never smoked in my life.

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Speaker 2: People, and speaking of stories that are absolutely incredible, let's

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Speaker 2: talk to NICKI do it.

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Speaker 3: Welcome Nikki to trust me. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 3: joining us in the studio.

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Speaker 1: No problem, Thanks ladies for inviting me. I'm glad to

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Speaker 1: be here.

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Speaker 4: I'm glad to be here too.

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Speaker 3: We've like DMed multiple times over the years and tried

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Speaker 3: to make it happen, and we're finally doing it. I'm

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Speaker 3: very excited about it. Yes, yes, yes, so Nikki. You

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Speaker 3: you have so much to talk to us about today.

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Speaker 3: Your experience is vast in some of these realms. You

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Speaker 3: host a podcast called Surviving the Black Church. How that

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Speaker 3: came to be? But your connection is you have been

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Speaker 3: in five what you call cults.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and a lot.

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Speaker 3: Of religious A lot of religious history going on here.

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Speaker 3: Can you start us off by talking about your religious journey?

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Speaker 4: Like what church did you grow up in? How did

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Speaker 4: that evolve? How did you go into five?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I don't know. I guess five was the magic

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Speaker 1: number for me. I mean I make jokes now I

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Speaker 1: have five different flavors of lemonade, you know, peach lemonade,

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Speaker 1: strawberry lemonade. But no, I grew up in what I

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Speaker 1: would call a religious narcissistic family system. So religion was

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Speaker 1: all over the place in my family, and it was

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Speaker 1: used as a tool to raise us and things of

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Speaker 1: that nature. But what I would say the most damaging

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Speaker 1: thing that happened growing up in my family system was

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Speaker 1: authority and how authority would frame what reality was. To me,

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Speaker 1: that is something I still work through till this day.

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Speaker 1: This September will mark ten years being cult free and

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Speaker 1: so what I'm going to do, Yeah, yeah, so I'm

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Speaker 1: excited about that, But I really feel like the reality

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Speaker 1: piece was the most damaging. That and being able to

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Speaker 1: discern for myself, you know, trust my gut, trust my intuition,

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Speaker 1: because everything was framed that we are the authority, figures

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Speaker 1: God has ordained us not only to be your parents,

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Speaker 1: but we're following, you know, this religion and what we

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Speaker 1: say go. So when you leave that environment, it's like,

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Speaker 1: what's reality now? I have no one to bounce that

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Speaker 1: off with. So I was raised in that environment, and

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Speaker 1: you know, when I went to college, and when I

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Speaker 1: went to college, I started reading books about conspiracy theories

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Speaker 1: and you know, Illuminati and the bloodline and everything, and

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Speaker 1: so I just went down the rabbit hole. Like you know,

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Speaker 1: I went down the rabbit I went down the rabbit

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Speaker 1: hole and just consumed so much. And when I was

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Speaker 1: reading a lot of this material, everything kept referring back

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Speaker 1: to the Book of Revelation and other apocalyptic chapters and Christianity,

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Speaker 1: and I said, well, wait a minute, If Jesus is

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Speaker 1: the only way to get out of all of this

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Speaker 1: mess that's supposed to happen, then I guess I will

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Speaker 1: sign up. Where do I sign up? Right? So I

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Speaker 1: was in my basement and reading this material and made

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Speaker 1: the decision, Hey, this is what I'm going to do.

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Speaker 1: Jesus holed me down, you know. So it was fear

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Speaker 1: that you know, I cut my teeth off of fear

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Speaker 1: and in time type of apocalyptic type of topics.

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Speaker 4: Where were you? Like, what state were you in?

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Speaker 1: New Jersey? Born and raised in New Jersey, Okay. And

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Speaker 1: so once I did that, I'm like, if I'm going

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Speaker 1: to do this, I'm going to do it fully. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to have step And so I totally

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Speaker 1: started to change a lot about my life. A lot

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Speaker 1: of friends and family like wait a minute, who are you?

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Speaker 1: You know? I started to go to church, the church.

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Speaker 1: I was raised in a Baptist church. And I went

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Speaker 1: from you know, being curious starting to study to being

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Speaker 1: actual lead the youth group. And like a month two

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Speaker 1: months time and.

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Speaker 4: You're the youth group, yeah, two months?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would. I would say my experience at that

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Speaker 1: point is what they call, oh, the fire of God,

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Speaker 1: the anointing is on her. So I just anything I consumed,

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Speaker 1: I shared And that's kind of been my life just

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Speaker 1: on the other end now, So when I would consume things,

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Speaker 1: I would share it. I would warn people. I think

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Speaker 1: I got on somebody's nerves at some point, but but

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Speaker 1: you know, they notice that, you know, the youth group

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Speaker 1: attendants went from ten to like fifty to like sixty

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Speaker 1: to like you know, and so I did that for

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Speaker 1: a while, and then I realized, you know, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: something's different here. I want more. The Baptist Church is

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Speaker 1: not wetting my palette, so to speak. As far as

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Speaker 1: I wanted fervency, I wanted passion, not just you know,

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Speaker 1: Baptist Church tend to have that that that perspective or

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Speaker 1: that that image that there, you know, can be very

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Speaker 1: one note, and I want it some more.

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Speaker 4: And kind of solemn and boring.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was monotone, boring, very you know, robotic, and

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Speaker 1: I want it more. And so one day this other

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Speaker 1: church did a play with the people at the Baptist Church.

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Speaker 1: And I don't think I was a part of it.

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Speaker 1: I think I just hung around and I just noticed

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Speaker 1: a lot of young people. They were like really on

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Speaker 1: fire for God. It seems serious for them, Like who

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Speaker 1: are these people? And you know, one thing led to another.

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Speaker 1: I eventually started frequenting their church and it was full

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Speaker 1: of young people. And this was my first official cult.

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Speaker 1: I say official because I feel like my family system

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Speaker 1: was the one that kind of prepared me and grounded

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Speaker 1: me and programmed me to be attracted to these other

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Speaker 1: groups that I was a part of. And so started

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Speaker 1: going to their church services or what have you. And

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Speaker 1: then I was all in. The worship was demonstrative, the

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Speaker 1: music was loud, the young adults were on fire for God,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, this is home. But I didn't know

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Speaker 1: it was a cult.

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Speaker 4: I mean that sounds exciting.

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Speaker 3: It sounds like just a more exciting, engaging environment and

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Speaker 3: like entertaining.

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Speaker 1: Yeah even yeah yeah. And then to have your peers there,

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Speaker 1: I think that means you know, a whole lot to

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Speaker 1: people when you say, Okay, I'm not the only one

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Speaker 1: that wants this, that desires this, and so it was

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Speaker 1: very easy for me to slip in. And then the

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Speaker 1: leader herself, which is oh, it's a woman, and that's

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Speaker 1: my daughter's grandma. Yeah, so you might have to have

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Speaker 1: me back for part two to share everything I went.

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Speaker 4: Through with that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, my daughter's other grandma from her other side of

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Speaker 1: the family, and so you can imagine what that was like. No,

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Speaker 1: but she early on me attending there, just always took

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Speaker 1: a liking to me. She talked about my spiritual gifts,

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Speaker 1: she talked about, you know, she appealed to you know,

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Speaker 1: my desire to make impact in society and things of

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Speaker 1: that nature. And so she became What's a common term,

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Speaker 1: especially in the Black church culture, is she became my

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Speaker 1: spiritual mom. Oh so she tutored me. You know, I

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Speaker 1: just I hung around her all the time, you know,

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Speaker 1: And because I had a fractured relationship with my mom,

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Speaker 1: this is what I was looking for, spiritual parents, someone

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Speaker 1: that could nurture me in the things of God, someone

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Speaker 1: that could just be there. And she emulated a lot

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Speaker 1: of that in the beginning until oh yes, oh yes.

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Speaker 1: Most of the cults I was in, that usually happened,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of it was through the prophetic. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's nothing like you're in you're in a crowd and

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Speaker 1: somebody points you out and say, hey, you you know

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Speaker 1: your your favorite show when you were sixteen was you know,

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Speaker 1: Family Matters or I don't know, like, you know, you

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Speaker 1: live on such and such block and your shoe size

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Speaker 1: is eight and a half and you're like, how.

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Speaker 4: Do you know they would they would say this kind

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Speaker 4: of thing.

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Speaker 1: No, but I worked with so called prophetic people that

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Speaker 1: did that. We can come back to that as to

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Speaker 1: how they knew that information. I'll just say it wasn't God.

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Speaker 5: But anyway, Google, maybe Facebook.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so you know, I I was just really

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Speaker 1: really like and ammered in the beginning, and you know,

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Speaker 1: her her children just like they just you know, connected

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Speaker 1: with me, and I just really got I felt like home,

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Speaker 1: I felt like I had a family, and that really

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Speaker 1: was the catalyst to help me say, Okay, this is

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Speaker 1: where I belong, this is where I'll be. And you

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Speaker 1: know how it ended was I was pregnant with her

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Speaker 1: son's daughter, and she you know, started to act like

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Speaker 1: a totally different person, and so like a wolf in

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Speaker 1: sheef clothing came out, and this is when she started

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Speaker 1: to say a lot of hurtful things. And I wasn't expecting.

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Speaker 1: I expected some sort of rebuke because it was out

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Speaker 1: of wedlock. But and she was the one that always

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Speaker 1: used to put us together, you know, like put us

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Speaker 1: on similar projects together and say, hey, you guys make

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Speaker 1: a great team. And then what naturally happens when you

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Speaker 1: like someone happened. You know, then I became the devil

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Speaker 1: with the red dress on. And so you know, I

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Speaker 1: had plans to abort her at f because I just

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Speaker 1: could not deal with all the things that were going

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Speaker 1: to come out had I you know, kept the child.

303
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Speaker 1: But then I had some weird experience I don't know

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Speaker 1: what you call it these days. However someone wants to

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Speaker 1: define it, they can define it their way. But I

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Speaker 1: started having like baby magazines with my name on them

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Speaker 1: coming to my home. I never filled out anything. It

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Speaker 1: was the weirdest thing. And I said, you know what,

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Speaker 1: am I pregnant? You know? So I ran to the Bible,

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Speaker 1: opened it up, and the pages opened up, and it

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Speaker 1: was at the story with David and Bathsheba and how

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Speaker 1: David committed a sin and even though you know the

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Speaker 1: child died or what have you, sometimes you got to

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Speaker 1: deal with consequences beyond you know, your sinful act. And

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Speaker 1: that's when I knew I was pregnant. And so I mean,

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Speaker 1: I went the physical route and got a pregnancy test,

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Speaker 1: and I made sure I didn't want to stay up

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Speaker 1: in the clouds with it. But that's how I found

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Speaker 1: out I was pregnant. And you know, long story as

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Speaker 1: far as how I decided to keep it, but I did.

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Speaker 1: Obviously she's twenty five now, so yes, she the leader

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Speaker 1: just turned on me and started talking about me from

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Speaker 1: the pulpit without anybody knowing, because nobody really knew I

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Speaker 1: was pregnant. I tried to conceal all nine months that

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Speaker 1: I wasn't pregnant. I just wore a lot of my

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Speaker 1: mother's clothes, other people's clothes, and long story show. After

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Speaker 1: we had the baby, her and her husband did not

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Speaker 1: acknowledge my daughter, and we kind of got into some

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Speaker 1: type of physical altercation, if you will, while I have

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Speaker 1: my child in my arms. Yeah, at her house, she

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Speaker 1: kind of pushed me and shoving me and saying, you know,

332
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Speaker 1: crazy stuff. Yeah. So I was like, Okay, I don't

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Speaker 1: think I can come back here. I know that sounds

334
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Speaker 1: kind of crazy, but a lot of the teachings that

335
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Speaker 1: I grew up with, particularly in a black culture style,

336
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Speaker 1: you don't leave church. You know, you suck for this

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Speaker 1: is part of the glory, getting the glory of God.

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Speaker 1: This is part of the other side of the story.

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Speaker 1: You keep at it until things shift. And so we

340
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Speaker 1: learn to have like a high threshold for suffering, which

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Speaker 1: is also tied to historical trauma and things of that

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Speaker 1: nature too. And so I just kept thinking, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm skipping over a lot. But there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of abusive things she was doing along the way. Things

345
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Speaker 1: she would say to me, if you ever left this church,

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Speaker 1: you'll go back out into the world. You know, no

347
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Speaker 1: one would want you outside of my son if you

348
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Speaker 1: left him, Like she would say different things to try

349
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Speaker 1: to sow seeds for me to doubt, to not want

350
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Speaker 1: to leave. And so it took her physically assaulting me

351
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Speaker 1: for me to say I can't do this anymore. And

352
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Speaker 1: even after that, I still thought, I'm part of God's army.

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Speaker 1: I need to be in my spot. The enemy is

354
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Speaker 1: gonna come get me if I'm not there. Yeah, but

355
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Speaker 1: she just did that, so I wasn't cognitives is for

356
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Speaker 1: a lot of that experience, I mean, but that was.

357
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Speaker 4: Just the first.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

359
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Speaker 3: I mean, we talk to people all the time where

360
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Speaker 3: like they'll you know, they'll have kind of these extreme

361
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Speaker 3: experiences with their leaders and this day for a.

362
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Speaker 2: Long ast time, I imagine you probably might have stayed

363
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Speaker 2: if you weren't holding a newborn child.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, those maternal instincts.

365
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because you know, abuses normalize a lot in

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Speaker 1: the Black church culture. It's just it seemed in herald as.

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Speaker 1: You know, the more you can take that means the

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Speaker 1: greater the glory. You know, the more the enemy is

369
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Speaker 1: assaulting you, coming after you, the more things are happening

370
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Speaker 1: against you know, your success, your happiness. That means, you know,

371
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Speaker 1: God really has his hand on you, and you are

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Speaker 1: marked and the enemy sees this. And so how people

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Speaker 1: rationalize a lot of abuses, it's sad. And so even

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Speaker 1: working with clients, even working with you know, the population

375
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Speaker 1: I work with, a lot of it is psycho education

376
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Speaker 1: and helping people to be able to sift through and

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Speaker 1: identify no, this is abuse. What was said to you,

378
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Speaker 1: what was said over you, what was done to you

379
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Speaker 1: is abusive. And it takes a while for it to

380
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Speaker 1: really register to a person. Oh yeah, you know, because

381
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,440
Speaker 1: you know a lot of abusive leaders, narcissistic cult leaders

382
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,280
Speaker 1: have done a number on the psyche for so many

383
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Speaker 1: so yeah, yeah, and.

384
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Speaker 2: They've used such beautiful concepts and weaponized them.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yes, and it's heartbreaking.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And the biggest one is pleasing God, you know,

387
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Speaker 1: being promoted in God's eyes, being a catalyst for change,

388
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Speaker 1: you know all these buzzwords, you know, being a world changer,

389
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Speaker 1: how that would look when you stand before him. And

390
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Speaker 1: so a lot of that language is used. It's either

391
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Speaker 1: that or you don't want to bust hell wide open.

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Speaker 1: That's the famous Euphanism in the Black church is don't

393
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Speaker 1: bust hell wide open, get to another church if you

394
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Speaker 1: had to do not be out of the world.

395
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Speaker 4: Yeah, what does it mean to bust hell?

396
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Speaker 1: Well, basically, like you know, you, if you're sinning, if

397
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 1: you're caught and doing things you shouldn't be doing, you

398
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,520
Speaker 1: know you have a one way ticket down the hell.

399
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Speaker 1: You're gonna bust hell wide open, terrifying and so you

400
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:19,280
Speaker 1: learn to manage, but you don't really manage. You learn

401
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,439
Speaker 1: to rationalize it. You learn to say, well, you know what,

402
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,560
Speaker 1: I'll just forgive them, because you know, Jesus told me

403
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Speaker 1: to forgive, and if I want to get into Heaven,

404
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,920
Speaker 1: I have to forgive. And you know, I won't tell

405
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,879
Speaker 1: anybody because you know, I'm not supposed to touch the

406
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,879
Speaker 1: anointed man or woman of God. So who you know,

407
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:37,439
Speaker 1: I'm not going to go to a therapist. I'm not

408
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:39,200
Speaker 1: going to go and even tell my friend because that's

409
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:43,239
Speaker 1: considered gossip. So a lot of pain and trauma is

410
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:47,159
Speaker 1: in black bodies who experience cults and religious trauma.

411
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Speaker 3: Right the speaking of beautiful concepts that are perverted. I mean,

412
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:52,960
Speaker 3: we see this a lot in all kinds of cults.

413
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Speaker 3: But just like this idea of forgiveness, like, uh, same

414
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,480
Speaker 3: in the church that Megan grew up in and a

415
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 3: lot of the abuse stuff that coming out about that. Now,

416
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Speaker 3: it's like this idea of forgiveness, did you skip past

417
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,480
Speaker 3: the accountability parts? Oh yeah, and go right to the

418
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Speaker 3: forgiveness part. And it's like okay, but at what point

419
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:08,800
Speaker 3: all on the survivor?

420
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Speaker 1: Yeah, because after all, this is God's man and woman,

421
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 1: his delegated authority over us. So if they do get

422
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,880
Speaker 1: in trouble or held accountable, God will deal with them.

423
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,119
Speaker 1: It is not our place to question to bring certain

424
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 1: things to light because we're now stepping in the position

425
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Speaker 1: that God is supposed to have. We're not supposed to

426
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Speaker 1: do that with them. It's not said verbatim like that,

427
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 1: but it's implied so much in the Black church culture.

428
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Speaker 4: Yeah, and was this one apocalyptic? Was it quite apocalyptic?

429
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Speaker 1: Not as much as the other cults. It was more

430
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,919
Speaker 1: gifts of the spirit. They were considered non denominational, but

431
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:52,840
Speaker 1: which means we don't even have a label. We can

432
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Speaker 1: do whatever they want. She didn't have a covering although,

433
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Speaker 1: and what that means is she didn't have any one

434
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Speaker 1: over her to you know, to checks and balances. A

435
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,719
Speaker 1: lot of these churches, especially the storefront churches, which is

436
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 1: very popular in the black church culture. And when they say,

437
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,159
Speaker 1: you know, I was born and raised in Nork, New Jersey,

438
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 1: so they would say, you know, there's a black church

439
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 1: on every corner in Nork, New Jersey, and it literally was.

440
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 1: I mean, like in some of the churches, I think

441
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,880
Speaker 1: we'll compete with each other, but the storefront churches are

442
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 1: very small, usually family type of church cult dynamics, and

443
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 1: you know, there's an expectation that you're just going to

444
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 1: adhere to everything, but there's no one over them usually,

445
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 1: which makes it even harder for any type of accountability.

446
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 3: So when you say black church, help us white people out,

447
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 3: like what constitutes a black church versus a church that

448
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 3: has a high black population.

449
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 4: Is there a particular denomination or no.

450
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 1: I mean it's more cultural than anything. I mean, if

451
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 1: you think about Twitter and people say, oh black Twitter,

452
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: you know, it's not an actual Twitter account, it's just

453
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,199
Speaker 1: you know, the culture aspect of it. And so you know,

454
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 1: there's an assumption if you're black, and you know you're

455
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 1: religious and your affiliation is Christian, you probably you know

456
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 1: been raised in a Black church. The Black Church, the

457
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 1: institution has you know, evolved in so many different forms

458
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 1: since it was first created, and a lot of it

459
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: was created out of we need space to survive, you know,

460
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: outside of whiteness. And you know, what it was in

461
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 1: the beginning is not what I perceive at least it

462
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 1: is now. You know, during those times, it was a

463
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 1: place of refuge, collectivism, activism. People learned how to you know,

464
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: read in some instances, they learned how to ooritate, they

465
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,120
Speaker 1: learned how to just do so many different things within

466
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 1: that context. But what it is now, I don't even

467
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: know where to describe what has become. And obviously I'm

468
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 1: not speaking to the all, but I am speaking to

469
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: the majority. And it has not been a safe place

470
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 1: for many, especially young adults. You know, they come to

471
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 1: their parents, Hey, I think I'm having some mental health issues,

472
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: and you're you might hear from mom and dad or grandma.

473
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: You don't have mental health issues. That's the work of

474
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: the enemy. You need to have the mind of Christ.

475
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: You need to speak those things that be not as

476
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 1: though they are so. Announcing scriptures and worship and prayer

477
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: and fasting is the overall medicine within the Black Church culture.

478
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 2: We didn't know fasting was so popular. Oh yes, yeah,

479
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 2: Like really, how long is a fast?

480
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,719
Speaker 4: How often were you expected to do it?

481
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 1: Which cult? Okay, the first cold, I'll stay with the

482
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: first golt we did. We fasted a lot, which I

483
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 1: eventually found out that the leader wasn't fast than when

484
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 1: we were fast thing. I mean she was going to

485
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 1: eat chops and everything. And we did a barley green

486
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 1: fast and you know we only drank you know, memories. Yes,

487
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: but in these type of instances it's used as a

488
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: form of control and keeping people subservient and keeping people

489
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: in a place where you know their guard is down.

490
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 4: You know, they're literally hungry.

491
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 1: They're hungry, and so they're hungry, they're desperate, they're willing

492
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 1: to you know, comply, even more so when they're fasting.

493
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: And so you know, obviously a lot of Colts love

494
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 1: to do that, most of the Five Colts. There was

495
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 1: a lot of that. But I think this first Colt

496
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 1: and then when I was a part of I HOP

497
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 1: the International House of Prayer in Kansas City, that was

498
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: just like a continual thing. There was always fast and

499
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 1: going on.

500
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 4: There was that your third.

501
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 1: Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, good tracking.

502
00:25:58,560 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 4: What was the second one?

503
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 1: Actually, no, that was the second one.

504
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So how did you move from the first

505
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 2: cult to the second clult?

506
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: Well, when I left the first cult, and obviously, like

507
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 1: I said, you know, once there's physical stuff going on,

508
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, I can't do this anymore. But

509
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 1: I spiritualized my experience, so I'm like, oh, she has

510
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 1: maybe a Jezebel spirit and a religious spirit and they

511
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 1: were trying to do you know. So I'm finding reasonings

512
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: in the Bible as to why my experience was the

513
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: way they were. But I never went to read, you know,

514
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: books around cults. I think I admitted to myself that

515
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: it was a cult, but not fully so I wasn't

516
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: in research mode. I was still spiritualizing my experience. And

517
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: because it's been kind of branded in me, you need

518
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 1: to be in some type of church. I was trying

519
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 1: to find something quick without really processing my experience. I

520
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: don't know how I found I, but I did. But

521
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: it was online and I was like, WHOA a lot

522
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: of young people thing you hear, you know, young adults

523
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: they're on fire for God, like they really, you know,

524
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: they're serious about this, and then I started to read

525
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 1: a lot of their end time theology, which that's how

526
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 1: I cut my teeth. But it was different than what

527
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, prior to that. It was like, Okay,

528
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 1: it's gonna get bad, but Jesus is gonna come and

529
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 1: he's gonna rapture us out of it. And you know,

530
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,479
Speaker 1: if you live right, you do what you're supposed to do,

531
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: you'll be a part of the rapture, or if you die,

532
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 1: you'll be risen with Christ. But that's not what they believe.

533
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: And that's not what they believe. They believed that we

534
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: were going to be here during those seven years of tribulation,

535
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 1: and so part of the necessity of being a part

536
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: of either that house of prayer or any house of

537
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: prayer is I hate talking I happies, but it's okay.

538
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: It's to store up the oil, you know, and to

539
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: prepare for being during the being alive during those years

540
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: of tribulation and being able to process being a martyr

541
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: at one point it could happen. And so we would have,

542
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: you know, times we would actually talk about, okay, well,

543
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 1: how am I going to die for Jesus? Like you know,

544
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 1: you're thinking and I'm talking about down to the young

545
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 1: ones as well too, you know. And then you know,

546
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 1: so processing all this, but I mean, this wasn't fully

547
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 1: what I thought before I moved. I just saw young people,

548
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 1: young adults on fire for God, and times I think

549
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: I'm sold, but I went to go visit first, and

550
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: then I was really sold. And so but they believe

551
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: that we're going to be here. But God is looking

552
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: for a group, an elite group, you know, his bride,

553
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: his special ones who have already been preparing for when

554
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: this happens. And we would be a comparable bride that

555
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: would be able to exhibit a lot of the qualities

556
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: that Jesus did.

557
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 3: Does bride refer to the whole group or there's a single.

558
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: The bride is part of the body of Christ in

559
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: their philosophy, But the bride is the This is the

560
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: the navy seals of the body of Christ. These are

561
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,479
Speaker 1: the ones who went really really low, who went you know,

562
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: they are based themselves as far as they could. They're

563
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: the ones who prayed and fasted and prepared.

564
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 4: Suffering is good. Oh yeah, So what did it look

565
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 4: like to practice being a martyr? To be a baseness?

566
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: I sold a lot of my bonds I had because

567
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: I'm like, if I could get the money back, and

568
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: I spent all these coldes. But yeah, I eventually moved

569
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: and I brought my daughter. She was nine or ten

570
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: at the time or whatever. I don't want to go.

571
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're gonna be on fire. For God. They

572
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: got a lot of young kids, you know. So she went,

573
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: and that's a whole nother story, you know, being a

574
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: parent and raising a child in this environment and then

575
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: leaving and having them to d program. But you know,

576
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: we got there. We were part of an internship for

577
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: like three months. And the first thing they want you

578
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 1: to do is to listen to what they call the

579
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: prophetic history of how I hop got started. And you know,

580
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: the leader of I Hop had you know, a visitation

581
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: when he was in Egypt and angel and got this

582
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: idea and blah blah blah blah blah. And you know,

583
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: they also had handouts about I hopp ease. You know,

584
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: what's the loaded language. They didn't call it that, but

585
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: you know, how to know what people are saying when

586
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: you're listening to They had a whole base, They had

587
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: a coffee shop, they had a bookstore. Eybody hung out

588
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: a coffee, A coffee, Yeah, long hours, you know, because

589
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: the epicenter of the I hop movement is the prayer room,

590
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: and so that is a room that has continually been

591
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: open twenty four to seven since nineteen ninety nine.

592
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 4: Wow.

593
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: I don't know the present state of it now because

594
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of controversy to that ministry since

595
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three until now. So I don't know if

596
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: it's fully dispanned. If there's I don't know.

597
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 4: So there are just twenty four hours a day. Be

598
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 4: somebody in there praying.

599
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: Yes, many somebody. It's you know, they have a whole team,

600
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: and if you're part of the team, the worship team,

601
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: they had two hour sets, so they would change over

602
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: every two hours and different themes for different sets. Times.

603
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: It was an intercession set, and so that team would

604
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: know they would sing songs. But there will also be

605
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: a microphone in the prayer room and people in the

606
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: prayer room can come up and pray. And this is

607
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: broadcasting globally.

608
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 3: And then there was like a live there's a twenty

609
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 3: four to seven live stream. Oh wow, big brother of prayers.

610
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, they collide and look what happens,

611
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: and that's how I started to learn about them. I

612
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: watched a lot of the prayer room. I watched a

613
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of the services they had outside

614
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: of the prayer room. You know, kind of immersed myself

615
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: in a culture online.

616
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 2: That makes perfect sense because you're coming out of something abusive.

617
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 2: I currently stay on a twenty four hour support line

618
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 2: at night. Oh and it's not a cult, but I

619
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 2: need people talking in the background. I have you they're

620
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 2: not praying, right, I can see where that would be

621
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 2: very appealing to you.

622
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, twenty four hour a day support.

623
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean like if you're having a stressful time,

624
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: you wake up two in the morning. You know, if

625
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: you don't live in that area, you can just go online.

626
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: Someone's praying, someone's talking about the glory of God, you know.

627
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: Or if you live in that area, you can just

628
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: go in there at any time during the day or

629
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: not ever alone. You're never alone. I'm just thinking of

630
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: something what you're saying, Like that type of support in

631
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: conjunction with the loneliness epidemic that we're currently in. Yes,

632
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: that is a you know, that's like heaven for cultic

633
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: type of community. So just you know, to come together.

634
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: Like people are lonely, let's, you know, offer them something

635
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: that they can't refuse. And I like to highlight this

636
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: because some people think, well, if I don't walk into

637
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: a brick and mortar building, then I possibly am not

638
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: connected to any type of cultic environment. And that's how

639
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: I got connected, was online on social media, watching their

640
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: you know, their different services, and eventually I move there.

641
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: So online cult personalities, different things like that can really

642
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: pull people in. Whether people you know realize it or not.

643
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 4: We see it all all the time, all the time.

644
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 3: It starts out as a Facebook group or TikTok.

645
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 4: Video and then you're down the rabbit hole and then

646
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 4: you're in Miami.

647
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, what are some of the happenies? I hoppies,

648
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 2: I happy.

649
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: Well, I've chosen to forget to a lot of that.

650
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: But you know, Okay, So they had something called Okay

651
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: the harp and Bowl model or theology, which is coming

652
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: out of the Book of Revelation. I don't remember the

653
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: address off the top of my head, but is a

654
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: premise of Jesus will be coming back and he wants

655
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: his bulls filled because it's off of a scripture. But

656
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: he wants the bowls of heaven filled with the incense

657
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: of the prayers of the righteous on the planet. So

658
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: the more you pray, you're actually metaphorically filling a bowl

659
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: that when it's full and it overflows, it can signal

660
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: time for his return.

661
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 4: So it's a lot of pressure.

662
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah, fours and I understand that as

663
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: soon as the baby says wow, put them in a

664
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: prayer room, that counts, right. So that's a theology that

665
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,720
Speaker 1: makes people say I have impact. I am doing something

666
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: not just on the planet, but actually in heaven. I'm

667
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 1: connecting and I'm touching the heart of God and doing

668
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: this and so people that come there with a sincere

669
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: heart and mind to connect on a you know, divine level,

670
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: this is you know. And so that's one the harp

671
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: and bol model. The sacred charge, speaking of fasting is

672
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: something that those who decided they wanted to be a

673
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: part of that, the sacred charge. It was a lot

674
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 1: of fasting involved, and it was connected to the forerunner mandate.

675
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 1: And what is the forerunner mandate? Those are ones who

676
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 1: are going ahead of time before time stop. Yeah, So,

677
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: like all this stuff we're seeing now politically, a lot

678
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: of this stuff. They talked about some of this stuff

679
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: when I was in those spaces, and so I have

680
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: to tell myself now that does it mean a.

681
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 2: Lot of people No, I mean, but I get in

682
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 2: those rabbit holes myself where you like see that book

683
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 2: written in eighteen ninety five about Baron Trump but his

684
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 2: magical adventures.

685
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: I know that one.

686
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 2: You're like, that's strange with his like time traveling, and

687
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 2: you can get a little creeped out. But I do

688
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 2: at the end of those want to talk about how

689
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 2: you kind of got out of that mode of thinking,

690
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 2: because I and that's really interesting.

691
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 1: Yes, that's definitely important because I think a lot of

692
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: people are going through that right now, you know, like

693
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 1: a religious trauma on the state and national level. What

694
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: happens when you're on social media, You're still your trauma

695
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 1: is being exacerbated by what's going on currently, you know,

696
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 1: And I have to tell myself that does not mean

697
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: that this is true. A lot of this is them

698
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 1: doing this themselves.

699
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 5: You know.

700
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,839
Speaker 1: I have to remind myself because it's very easy to say,

701
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 1: what's that wrong? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I never come to

702
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,240
Speaker 1: that conclusion anymore that I was wrong and I shouldn't

703
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 1: have gotten now, I'm out of harm's way. So at

704
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: the end of the day, I kind of go down

705
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: to the bare bones of I am safe now, so.

706
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 4: You know, beautiful Yeah, yeah, yeah, man.

707
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 3: I mean maybe it's too much to go through all

708
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 3: of them, but like, broadly, I do want to know, like,

709
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 3: what was it that led you.

710
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 4: To keep sneaking? Why'd you leave? Why did you leave? Ihop,

711
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 4: where'd you go?

712
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 1: Okay, So this pastor who used to pastor my parents,

713
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: I would say under ten years ago since I've been

714
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: out a differend to my parents, and he was actually

715
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: younger than me, and I trusted him. I left Kansas

716
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: City eventually and I moved to Virginia Williamsburg, Richmond, Virginia area,

717
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: and I was going through it. This is when I'm

718
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 1: really like the salt has waken me up to realize

719
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: what I've been in for most of my life. I'm

720
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: starting to sift through a lot of this stuff, heavily

721
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: depressed and everything. And my mom was like, why don't

722
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 1: you go talk to him? He's a pastor. I don't

723
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 1: want to hear from pastors. But I knew he was really, really,

724
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: really down to earth and cool.

725
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 4: Is this after number two or after all of them.

726
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,879
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna get back to you to your question

727
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: with this. So I met with him and that was

728
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,439
Speaker 1: one of the most pivotal conversations for me. He said,

729
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: first of all, I know a little bit about your story,

730
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: but I know enough. I'm pretty sure coming to church

731
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: triggers you. I'm pretty sure reading the Bible triggers you.

732
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: And that's okay, he said, if are we you? He said,

733
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 1: A lot of my peers would tell me, don't say that.

734
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: I would say to you, don't touch any of it

735
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: right now. You need to be human, right And he

736
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: started to talk to me about the term I never

737
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 1: heard before, which was religious addiction. Oh, addiction, yes, but

738
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: I never thought about the two together. I know how

739
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: the slogan is too much of anything. It's not good.

740
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: People don't think about that when it comes to God

741
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,280
Speaker 1: and all these things of that nature. But we started

742
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 1: using terms like chasing the dragon. So I feel like,

743
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: you know, my first high I got in that first

744
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: cult with the young people and some end time stuff,

745
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: but a lot of spiritual warfare and intercession and all

746
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 1: of this stuff. Going to a regular church where they've

747
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 1: talked about loving God, you love your neighbors, love yourself,

748
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: and go home.

749
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 4: You're like boring.

750
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's flags all over the place. Many

751
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: people doing cartwell experience being blown and yes, I've been

752
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 1: in ministries where they blow to so far. Yeah, and

753
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: have the talit and yeah, I've I mean we have

754
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: to talk after this for the crazy stuff.

755
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like love addiction, where it's you only want

756
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 3: it when it has those high highs, and when it's

757
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 3: actually like secure and stable and healthy, it feels like boredom.

758
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 4: And it's also I'm sure tying.

759
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 5: Into like an O C D religious Yeah, yeah, absolutely,

760
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:44,399
Speaker 5: you know, absolutely.

761
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 2: Like Chasing the Dragon, also tied with a very OCD scrupulos.

762
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yeah.

763
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 3: When you leave one, then is it like, oh my god,

764
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 3: like I'm going to go to hell if I don't

765
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 3: find one the other one right now?

766
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 1: And I mean it's in my subconscious, it's in my body. Yeah.

767
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: But then there's also the desire I want to be

768
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: with the saints, I want to be with the people,

769
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 1: you know, but I want it high like I had

770
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: it in the last But once I started looking at

771
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 1: my church history myself, I realized a lot of the

772
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 1: more abusive places I was in. Was very demonstrative and

773
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: very emotional and very highly charged. There wasn't really a

774
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 1: lot of times where you here just love God, love

775
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: your neighbor, love yourself. Okay, see y'all next week. It

776
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: was the Bible was looked at as a military thing,

777
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: you know, go out and take dominion, you know, all

778
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: this Christian nationalism stuff, which we didn't get to that,

779
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,320
Speaker 1: but you know, so he said, you're going to have

780
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,359
Speaker 1: to learn if you still want to connect with God

781
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: and you still want to connect with this faith, you're

782
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: going to have to learn how to do it without

783
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: the high.

784
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 4: Oh wow, that is listen.

785
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 1: So that's so good, he said, And that may take

786
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: you some years.

787
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:52,879
Speaker 4: Yeah.

788
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,399
Speaker 1: But part of you getting to that place to even

789
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 1: decide if that's what you want, you got to come

790
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: away from here. So he said, I love you because

791
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: because you are your parents' child and their family to me,

792
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 1: he said, but if you never come back here, I'm okay,

793
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: just as long as I know that You're okay. But

794
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: be human, learn to be human. Take off the cake.

795
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 1: I Ll take off the cake. You don't have to

796
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 1: save anybody. Just learn who you are and be human

797
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: and that was probably one of the best advice. And

798
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: he told me this in his office in the church.

799
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: So he's saying, don't come back here, come here, go

800
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: inwork and be okay here.

801
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 3: And that I mean the purpose that someone at church

802
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 3: is actually supposed to serve helping.

803
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yes, And to this day, I'm so appreciative

804
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: to what he said to me because a lot of

805
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,720
Speaker 1: other people were telling me, we want intercessor Nikki, where's

806
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: the dream interpreter? Because I did a lot of stuff

807
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: in these places I was in, we want that person.

808
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,879
Speaker 1: I'm like, she died and I can't get back there.

809
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: I want to because I don't know who this person

810
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 1: is now. But when he said that, it kind of

811
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 1: set me free to explore and be curious and find

812
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: out who Nikki is, not who she's supposed to be

813
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:06,760
Speaker 1: according to other people.

814
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, how many of the churches that you participated in

815
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 3: were black churches versus did you haven't got to any

816
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 3: that were more white?

817
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 1: Okay? The first one that I told you about what

818
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: my daughter's grandma was the leader that was predominantly black.

819
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: But before I went there, you know, I was raised

820
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,320
Speaker 1: in black church culture, you know, but that was the

821
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 1: one that I chose after I personally made that choice

822
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,399
Speaker 1: to say Jesus is my savior. So after that, though

823
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 1: the four other subsequent cults were not predominantly black, it

824
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: was predominantly white. Few of us sprinkled in here and there,

825
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:43,240
Speaker 1: so that in itself was interesting dynamic.

826
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 4: But yeah, but they all kind of gave you that

827
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 4: love bombing experience with your peers.

828
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: There absolutely, and you know, the prophetic love bombing culture

829
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: is definitely prevalent in a lot of Black churches, but

830
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: they are in the more evangelical extreme type of you know,

831
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,240
Speaker 1: churches slash cults, high demand group that is very prevalent,

832
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 1: you know. And so the other four were very spiritual

833
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 1: warfare nature. And I mean not just okay, you know, Satan,

834
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: get away from my child. No, this was deep in

835
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 1: the belly of the beasts. Like I was a part

836
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: of some intercession groups where we did what they call

837
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: spiritual mapping. So you would go to different cities, different locations,

838
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,760
Speaker 1: especially if you're connected with the leader who was about

839
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 1: to preach or share whatever another country. You go there

840
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,760
Speaker 1: ahead of time and intercessors and they start to survey,

841
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 1: spiritually survey the land. You know what principalities are in

842
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:41,320
Speaker 1: this area.

843
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 4: So fun, I know, like, what are we talking about?

844
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 4: Is there a machine?

845
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: You know, it's just you know, you got your sisters

846
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:54,760
Speaker 1: and your brothers in Christ, and you start to say, okay,

847
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: is you know the principality of Jezebel stronger in this area?

848
00:42:59,280 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 3: You know?

849
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: Is it a it's a religious spirit here? And so

850
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 1: when you're the metric, when you're in that though, you're

851
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 1: always in a place of judgmentalness. I would say, you're

852
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 1: not seeing the beauty of a place, You're not seeing

853
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: the beauty of a people. You're seeing the opposite. And

854
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: so then being part of like what I call, you know,

855
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: the Navy seals, because you're going and you're spiritual mapping,

856
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 1: you think that everything you think can perceive is accurate

857
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:28,320
Speaker 1: and everything like that I had. There's so much I

858
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:32,800
Speaker 1: had to turn off and really just cut off of

859
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: me as far as you know, I'll still go different

860
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 1: places and I can tell, but I don't mean like

861
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: sin or anything like that, because what a sin? Anyway,

862
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: that's a whole nother conversation. But so I was deep

863
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 1: in that, I was deep in the romanticism with bridal mysticism,

864
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 1: you know, like, you know, the bride paradigm that is

865
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 1: very big in I hop.

866
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 5: Culture, and growing up we called that the bridegroom. Yeah

867
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 5: we did too, Okay, you did too.

868
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 2: Like and I was always like, why are we calling

869
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,240
Speaker 2: that word? Least favorite word, bridegroom?

870
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:03,800
Speaker 4: I hate it.

871
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 2: But it seems as though this marriage to Jesus or

872
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 2: however it's it's meant to be interpreted, is very romanticized.

873
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 4: And then also there's this.

874
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 1: Song of Solomon.

875
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 2: There's this also actually getting married, huge huge. What is

876
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 2: the name of the guy that you were speaking about.

877
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 2: I want to say Bezos. That's Jeff Bezos waiting him,

878
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:34,280
Speaker 2: waiting for boham.

879
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 1: Waiting for thank you? Yes, can you tell us a little?

880
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: Oh well, that term is very big in the Black

881
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 1: Church and the story of Boaz in the Bible again

882
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: forgot the address, and I'm okay with that. Back in

883
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 1: the day, I knew it all. But and how he

884
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: looked for a bride and you know, he met a

885
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: woman and how she laid before his feet. It's a

886
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 1: whole big story or whatever, but it is the premise

887
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 1: of as a woman, you know, of verg woman in

888
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 1: God that you're waiting for your boas to come. And

889
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,399
Speaker 1: this part always gets me really emotional when I think

890
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: of how many particularly Black women, because this has used

891
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 1: a lot, and not to say it's not used to

892
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: other places, but they used a lot in the Black

893
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: culture that we're supposed to wait for God to bring

894
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 1: us our boas. So I've had clients and I've I've

895
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 1: talked to survivors where they're like in their forties now

896
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: and they've never been kissed, and they've never been touched.

897
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: They've never been allowed to explore, you know, their sexuality

898
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: because they're waiting for boas.

899
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 4: But how do you know when Boaz is there?

900
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: See, some are so strict where they don't get on

901
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 1: social media, they're not getting on dating apps, they're not

902
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 1: going out, they're just going to work in church at home,

903
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 1: and you know, there's this big expectation that God is

904
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: going to like like a stork and bring him down

905
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: to the front door and you'll just know and you'll

906
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: just know. But when religion and you know, religious and

907
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: doctrination and even you know, generational expectations is what has

908
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: been catalysts for being forty five and never been touched,

909
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 1: wanting children, but your past, that that age bracket to

910
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: do that, and you know, for for women that come

911
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 1: out of that and say, Okay, I don't want to

912
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 1: be religious anymore. I don't want I don't know what

913
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: I want to affiliate with, but I'm I'm divorcing myself

914
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: from Christianity. I always encourage them to give space for

915
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 1: anger when it comes to this area, because they have

916
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 1: a right to be angry as a lot of lost

917
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: time that you can't get back.

918
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 4: Oh my god, that grief, Yes, that grief.

919
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 3: I was pissed on my ex boyfriend for stealing three

920
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 3: and a half years of my fertility. God forbid. It

921
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 3: was a lifetime of religion, right, like right, that's that's

922
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 3: really it.

923
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that that Boaz terminology is, you know, I'm

924
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 1: waiting for Boas. They even have a song on YouTube

925
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 1: that came out years ago. I'll show you guys on YouTube.

926
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 1: It's hilarious.

927
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 5: They have a gym I'm waiting for Boas and it's

928
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 5: just it's sad, but I have to.

929
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 1: Find some humor in it.

930
00:46:56,360 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 4: So it does sound like a movie title, but I

931
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 4: kind of want to watch.

932
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, you know, we can talk later.

933
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 3: And We're gonna leave part one with Nikki there for

934
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:10,839
Speaker 3: this week, come back next week for part two.

935
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 4: There's still so much to her story. I just love

936
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 4: her perspective.

937
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 3: So, Megan, we've come to the time of the episode

938
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 3: where I ask you a question, and this week, I

939
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 3: would love to know if you would join I hop specifically, I.

940
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 4: Think I would.

941
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 2: I do think I might be susceptible to I hop

942
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 2: especially if somebody, well in particular Nikki was there, Like

943
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:33,839
Speaker 2: I would probably do whatever she was doing, just because

944
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 2: she's so great. So if she was there, if she

945
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 2: was kind of rapping it, I think i'd be, Like,

946
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 2: I really like this twenty four hour aspect because I

947
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 2: have insomnia and I really like this and I really

948
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 2: like that. I just find that I that the all

949
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 2: night add something for me. So that's interesting. I see

950
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 2: that I think I'd be susceptible. What about you, Wou'd

951
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 2: you join it?

952
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 4: Now?

953
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 3: I don't think it'd be my exact type of thing,

954
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 3: but I do see the appeal of that element. Yeah,

955
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 3: you know, I wake up in the middle of the

956
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 3: night very frequently and I wish there was like something

957
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:06,919
Speaker 3: I could do or somewhere I could go or someone

958
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 3: I could talk to, because otherwise it feels like you're

959
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 3: just kind of alone in those hours, like I see

960
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 3: why that at school?

961
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:13,800
Speaker 4: Yeah? I agree.

962
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 2: Well, next week's episode is equally as fascinating and even deeper.

963
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 2: So rate us five stars by our merge at exactly

964
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 2: rightstore dot com, and remember to follow your gut, watch

965
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 2: out for red flags, and never ever trust me bye.

966
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 4: This has been an Exactly Right production hosted by me Lola.

967
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 2: Blanc and Me Megan Elizabeth. Our senior producer is Gee Holly.

968
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 2: This episode was mixed by John Bradley. Our associate producer

969
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,800
Speaker 2: is Christina Chamberlain, and our guest booker is Patrick Kuttner.

970
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,479
Speaker 4: Our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

971
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:56,800
Speaker 2: Trust Me as executive produced by Karen Kilgareth Georgia Hartstark

972
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:57,800
Speaker 2: and Danielle Kramer.

973
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 4: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me pots

974
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 4: or on TikTok at trust Me Cult podcast.

975
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 2: Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, our manipulation.

976
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 2: Shoot us an email at trustmepodat gmail dot com.

977
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,320
Speaker 3: Listen to trust Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

978
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 3: or wherever you get your podcasts.