1 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 1: The I Am Rappaport Stereo Podcast Live. You're down with Rappaport, 2 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: Yes I am, I'm a Rappaport, Yes I am I 3 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: am a Rappaport. Yes, I am dam a Rapperport. Yes 4 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: I am at a tune in. I am Rappaport dot 5 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: com because every single podcast, you know, he drops bombs. 6 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: I've seen him on set a season Vetman, True Town, 7 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: catch him on his way across Fit rocking the New Balance. 8 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: He asked me to do the track because you know, 9 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: I rom a leak. But I'm just waiting for the 10 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: Robert the Neiro line of the week, Breakfast the Champions 11 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 1: host the Bagel, Cream, Cheese and lock. This is I 12 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: Am Rappaport. The show never stopped. Mike catch him Mountain 13 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: Public stretching his knees. But if you don't listen to 14 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: the show, yo, wig up, please wigga please. I podcast 15 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: Senior Michael Rappaport, What up? It's your boy? Dj e 16 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: FN Crazy Hood Productions, one half of the Drink Champs podcast, 17 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: and I just want to say salute and congratulations for 18 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: your one thousandth episode. And that's huge man. You know 19 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: trust me, I know being in the podcast game and 20 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: we could only wish and hope to get to a 21 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: thousand like you. So so shout out to the I 22 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:21,119 Speaker 1: Am Rappaport Podcast and everybody in your team. Congratulations man 23 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: from Drink Champs, DJ E FM. Peace. This is a 24 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: cold opening of the one thousandth I Am Rappaport Stereo Podcast. 25 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: This is episode one thousand of the I M Rappaport 26 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: Stereo Podcast, the world's most disruptive podcast. My name is 27 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: Michael Rappaport a k a. The Gringo Man Dingo aka 28 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: the Sultan of Sniff aka the White Chocolateito aka White 29 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: Magic Mike aka White Mike aka the Jewish Jakelamatta a 30 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: k A. Mister New York a ka Mister two one 31 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: two aka the Disruptive Warrior. And what can I say? 32 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 1: I never thought that podcasting would take it this far. 33 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: This is the man, This is crazy. It's the one 34 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: thousandth episode of the podcast and I got very very 35 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: very exciting special guest Hall of Famer, NBA Hall of 36 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: Famer Icon two times. I'm Dream Team Olympic gold Medalist, 37 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: New Yorker, great New Yorker, great guy, someone who I 38 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 1: looked up to before I met him. Chris Mullen from 39 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: Saint John's University, from Power Memorial High School, Xaverian High School, 40 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: Golden State Warriors, Indiana Pacers joining me on the im 41 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: Rappaport Stereo podcast. And it's a fantastic interview with somebody that, 42 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: like I said, I really just I mean, sort of 43 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: idolized as a kid when I was growing up playing basketball, 44 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: and I just wanted to just take a moment to just, 45 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: first of all, thank all the listeners. The millions, literally 46 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: millions of people have heard the im Rappaport Stereo podcast, 47 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: and I just want to first of all, thank all 48 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: the fans, the new fans, the old fans, the Day 49 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: one fans, the episode one hundred fans, the episode five 50 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: hundred fans, the fans we got last week, and all 51 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: the fans in between. Started doing the podcast literally on 52 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: a whim in twenty fourteen, which is crazy. And when 53 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: I think back to twenty fourteen, so much in the 54 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: world has changed, so much in my life has changed personally, 55 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: so much has changed professionally, and I just appreciate the support. 56 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 1: I appreciate the patience from the fans. I appreciate all 57 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: the people that have gotten to meet. I appreciate every 58 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: single person who's ever stopped me in an airport, in 59 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: a Starbucks on the street, who have supported the podcast, 60 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: who've listened to the podcast. It really means a lot. 61 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: It really, really really means a lot. And like I said, 62 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: you know, when we started doing the podcast, podcasts were 63 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: just not what they are today. Not everybody even knew 64 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: what a podcast was. It's so cool to have been 65 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 1: doing it for going on eight years and we're just 66 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: getting started. You know, if you've been listening from the beginning, 67 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: you've known the ebbs, the flows, the highs, the lows, 68 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: the controversy, the guests and everything in between. It's just 69 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: been so much fun. But we've done a thousand episodes 70 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: and I was talking to the Dust Brothers, who have 71 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: been with me from every episode, every incident, every subject, 72 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 1: every edit, making me sound great when I didn't feel great, 73 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: making me sound great, probably when I didn't sound great. 74 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: It's been a true team effort with my guys Miles 75 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: Davis who's Asian, and Jordan Winter, the Dust Brothers aka 76 00:05:55,080 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: the Bleach Brothers, literally holding me down every single episode. 77 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: Sound snaf foods. You know, when I've been in shitty moods, 78 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 1: when I've been in good moods, when I've been, you know, 79 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 1: in weird locations. It's just everything that they've been rocking 80 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: with me from day one, and their lives have changed, 81 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: they've grown, and you know, we've grown together, and the 82 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: fans we you know, I've grown with you, and hopefully 83 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: you've grown with me. But I was tripping because we 84 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: were talking about doing a thousand episodes, and we're saying, 85 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 1: how many things in your life have you actually done 86 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: one thousand times? Like have you played one thousand basketball games? 87 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 1: Have you been to the gym a thousand times? Have 88 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: you seen a thousand movies? You know, they talk about 89 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: ten thousand hours being the marker of becoming an expert. 90 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 1: I don't know if that applies for podcasting, because I 91 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: feel like I'm somewhat of an expert. But I feel 92 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: like I have plenty of room to grow and to 93 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: improve and to just continue to kick ass and continue 94 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 1: to disrupt. And as you know, when I say disruptive 95 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean bad, it doesn't necessarily mean outrageous. It 96 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: just means to for me, what disruption means for me. 97 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: On this episode, it just means to be yourself just 98 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: means to be honest to yourself, to be true to yourself, 99 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: to be trusting of yourself. Because in any platform, whether 100 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: it's show business, which is what I am only familiar with, 101 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,239 Speaker 1: but in any in any business and any you know, life, 102 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: everybody has their trials and tribulations, and the most important 103 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: thing is to stay true to yourself and stay truly, 104 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: truly disruptive. But I am the Cal Ripken junior of podcasting, 105 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: one thousand fucking episodes. Cal Ripkin, Michael Rappaport, Michael Rappaport, 106 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: Cal Ripken. And the other day I said, I don't 107 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: think we took a week off, and the Dust Brothers 108 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: corrected me. They said, We've never taken a week off. 109 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: There's been some weeks where just a couple in eight 110 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: years we've only done one episode. But the majority of 111 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: the time, it's like clockwork Tuesday morning, Friday morning. You know, 112 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: disruption is coming live and direct. I know you hear 113 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: the sirens. That's because I'm in the og gloom tomb 114 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: here in New York City. But we've done it all. 115 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: We've had. We've had a bunch of weeks where we 116 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: did three episodes. We had a one week where we 117 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: did four episodes and I wish I could podcast every day. 118 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,079 Speaker 1: I do, I really do, because I have so much 119 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: to say. And you know, like I said at the start, 120 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,559 Speaker 1: you know, it's the fans, It's you guys, It's the listeners. 121 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: It's the people that have been rocking with the show, 122 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: whether you've been rocking from day one or you know, 123 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: last week, because we pick up new fans, new listeners 124 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: every single week. You know. We obviously we have the 125 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: Wrappa Pack. In the United States, we have the Rappa 126 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: Pack and Buffalo, we have the Rappa Pack in Texas, 127 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: Wrappa Pack, California, of course, the New York Wrappa Pack. 128 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 1: We have the Rappa Packs. Abroad we have the Brazilian 129 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: Wrappa Pack, the Saudi Arabian Wrappa Pack, the Polish Wrappa Pack, 130 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: we have the Australian Rappa Pack, we have the New 131 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: Zealand Wrappa Pack, the French France contingent, the Canadian Rapper Pack, 132 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: and I'm forgetting the Mexico Wrappa Pack. The Rappa Pack 133 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: community is a world wide thing because what the Iron 134 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 1: Rapports tereo podcast is a worldwide phenomenon. It started as 135 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: a worldwide phenomenon, and it continues to gain speed and 136 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 1: gain momentum. And some of the guests, you know, the 137 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: Danny Iello, the late great Danny Iello. So many people 138 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: have been illoed, so many of people have gotten the 139 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 1: Will Hutch treatment. We've had Marv Albert on the podcast. 140 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:12,199 Speaker 1: We've had Mark Ruffalo, Regina Hall, Juliet Lewis, Jake Lamata, 141 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: I'm the Jake Clamata of podcasting, Jake Lamata before he 142 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: passes on the podcast, Martin Scorsese, so many athletes, Warren 143 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: sapp Lamar old him, so many just great exciting moments, 144 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: you know, Alec Baldwin, Shooter McGavin, Chris Hansen, and there's 145 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: so much more to come. And I just wanted to 146 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: just wax a little poetically because I just truly appreciate, 147 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 1: like I said, everybody letting me evolve, letting me grow, 148 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: letting the show grow, letting the show let its hair down, 149 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 1: and continuing to try, literally every single episode to give 150 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: blood on the mic, because that's what my intention is, 151 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: to make it pure, early, personal and entertaining every single 152 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,079 Speaker 1: show because it is a show. It is a show, 153 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: and it is a show for you the people. Okay, 154 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: because if I'm podcasting and no one's listening, where do 155 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: you want me bellevue preferably in a straight jacket hopped 156 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: up on some of that one flow over the cuckoo's nest. Anyway, 157 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 1: without further ado, Episode one thousand with my Man special guest. 158 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: This is a great interview guys. This is a dope, dope, 159 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: dope interview. Special guest from Brooklyn, New York. Chris mull 160 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: and Miles Jordan aka the Bleached Brothers aka the Dust Brothers. 161 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: Start this one thousandth episode off with something real nice. 162 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: Start this puppy off with something real loud, but most importantly, 163 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: start the one thousandth episode off with something Miles dig deep, 164 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: give me something real real fucking see. I am rapping 165 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: port Stereo pockets ligety. Let's fucking go be no fact 166 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: check it do that? Ain't no fact check it? Oh yeah, 167 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 1: we always go wall door without pain, no fact checking. 168 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 1: I don't want to know whar you're little bit attain 169 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: no check it? All right, I am rapp ports Stereo podcast. 170 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: Chris Mullen, Brooklyn Royalty. Humble. We're gonna get the humbleness 171 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: out of him. They got Vinnie Barberino, they got Tony Manero, 172 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:47,079 Speaker 1: they got Chris Mullin, they got Jay Z, they got 173 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:51,959 Speaker 1: Biggie Smalls, they got Chris Mullen. Brooklyn's finest, one of 174 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: Brooklyn's finest. Don't forget do a die bed sty I 175 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: am Mike Tyson. The list goes on. But the point, 176 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: the point that I may mully, is that we talk 177 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 1: about this Brooklyn, especially Brooklyn basketball. For some reason, your 178 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: name sometimes gets left off the list or you're just 179 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: squeezed in there. So I know you're humble. I know 180 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: you don't like talking about your career. I never get 181 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,319 Speaker 1: to see you talk so much about your career, and 182 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: I think you're humble. You're low key, which I respect. 183 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: We're gonna knock all the humility. We're gonna go back 184 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: in the days. I can only talk about so many 185 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: things with you on the im Wrap hors Tereo podcast. 186 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: But I've always been a fan and I want to 187 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: jump right into it. You grew up in Brooklyn, New York. 188 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: The high school basketball scene when you were tenth, eleven, 189 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: twelfth grade. There's so many players in New York City 190 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: at the time. This is when New York truly was 191 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,559 Speaker 1: king despite when anybody wants to say now they say 192 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: New York isn't the best and all that stuff, But 193 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: talk about the high school basketball Brooklyn team. Who is there, 194 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: who are the players? And how you amerged at the time, 195 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: because it wasn't social media where you connect. How did 196 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 1: you emerge to play for Riverside Church? How did you 197 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: emerge from your neighborhood to sort of be that guy 198 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 1: that that was moving around your white dude in New 199 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: York City in the late seventies early eighties. Yeah, Michael, 200 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:16,559 Speaker 1: my pleasure to be with you, man. I love being 201 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: on your podcast. Big fan of goes as well. Yeah. 202 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: So so without like going back, you got you gotta 203 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: get the history a little bit right. The history of 204 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: New York City basketball goes way way back. Billy Cunningham, 205 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: Lenny Wilkins, Kareem tiny Ocherball, Connie Hawkins. You know, this 206 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: is a rich, rich tradition. So it was born in 207 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: bread in the streets, right in the parks. You know, 208 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: we didn't have access to Jim's like they do now. 209 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 1: As you said, a lot of your reputation was gained 210 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: on a daily basis by word of mouth, but how 211 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: you played, not the junk you spoke and all that 212 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: stuff that was part of it maybe, but you had 213 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: to go up there and show up every single day 214 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: because to gain your reputation, to gain your respect. For me, 215 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: you know, I grew up in Flatbush pretty much, you know, 216 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 1: Irish Catholic, White Italian Julia. You know, we all had 217 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: all little neighborhoods. But not until I went to high 218 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: school in Manhattan did I kind of branch out and 219 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: get exposed to different style of basketball, different cultures, kids 220 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: with different upbringings than me. So I went to pal 221 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: Memorial Academy, which was on sixty first in Amsterdam, legendary school. 222 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: Obviously Kareem len Elmore had some Jap tremble, some incredible 223 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: basketball history in that school alone. And that league was 224 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: Rice High School, Mount Saint Michael, Saint Raymond's all hollows, 225 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: the Bronx Manhattan League was. It was really really tough league. 226 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: My older brother Rod went there, so that I kind 227 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: of followed in his footsteps. It was, you know, big 228 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: commute for me from Floppush up there. Took um, you know, 229 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: like ninety minutes. That alone was an education for me. 230 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: Jumping on the you know b forty one bust down 231 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: Flaba Chavin you jumping on the number three train up 232 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: to you know forty second Street, trans over to one 233 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: train to go to you know, fifty nine Street, Columbus Circle, 234 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: walking over the power. So at that point, you know, 235 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: now all my friends were not from Brooklyn. I had 236 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: friends from Harlem, the Bronx Hell's Kitchen. So uh. Mary 237 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: Whalley was a teammate of mine at Poal Memorial, a 238 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: few other guys on I never I resented him when 239 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: he did the Kiss of Death in the Garden with 240 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: the Spurs when they won the championship. Yeah, he was 241 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: nasty man. He actually and this is he did not 242 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: appreciate him doing the kiss of death. Well, that wasn't cool. 243 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: It was a kiss of death though with the rockets 244 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: it was Yeah, it was rockets at Phoenix. That that 245 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: was Phoenix to get to the wind of getting to 246 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: the final. I was on the Western Conference finals. Yeah, 247 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: that wasn't cool. He didn't need to do that. He did, 248 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: but he did win a championship at the Garden with 249 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: Kenny Smith, two New York City kids. Yeah, I get that, 250 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: but I so I resented the kiss of death in 251 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: the You gotta understand Mario's background, who actually was cut 252 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: from our freshman team, so he carried that forever. He's 253 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: got that chip on his shoulder to this day. From 254 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: ninety six in Amsterdam, you know, the hood I got it, 255 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: so they focused on you. Yet we were power and 256 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: you know, I'm playing with these guys in the city 257 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 1: and a few guys are playing at Riverside Church. My 258 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: older brother Rod had played there at Riverside Church. So 259 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: my dad, you know, you said, we're talking late seventies, 260 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:31,199 Speaker 1: early eighties. New York's pretty rough place, subways, you know, 261 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: pretty rough from fourteen to fifteen. The fact that my 262 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: brother Rod went up there and had no problems made 263 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: a little kay for me to go. So he paved 264 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: the way for me. He was the trailblazer for me to, 265 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: you know, to go up there and play Riverside. And 266 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: now you're talking about in that day and they just 267 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: only two AAU teams. The word A that term was 268 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: in a round Navia. It was just it was an 269 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 1: all star team basically, so it wasn't twelve on every block. 270 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: There was basically twenty four kids playing in that AU system, 271 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: and what were the teams Riverside Church and the Gauchos, 272 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: which was based out of the Bronx too. You know, 273 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: so if you the top, there was somewhat tryout's invitation only. 274 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: And so anyway through power, I wound up going to 275 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: Riverside Church. And really that's when I really got exposed 276 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 1: to a different style of play, a different level of competition, 277 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: trash talk, all those things that you know are synonymous 278 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: with New York City basketball, especially up in Harlem, the Bronx, 279 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 1: you know, queens. And so now we're traveling all over. 280 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: Some of the guys I played with, we were talking. 281 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: We just spoke with Eddie Pickney, you know, he's one 282 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: of my dear friends, ed Pinky. When you were a teenager, easy, 283 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: Ed Pickney played with him. He played both he played 284 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: Riverside Gallery. Guys would bounce back and forth. One of 285 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 1: the teams I played for a Riverside Five of those 286 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: guys went to Iona College. Who are they? Rory Grimes, 287 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: Tony Hargraves, Troy Trusdale, all New York City legends through 288 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: high school. Steve burt Right, big time scorer, played in 289 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: the NBA. Gary Springer, who at that time was the 290 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: number one high school player in the country, right, and 291 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: he went to iona college. So there was a point 292 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 1: in time, and you talked about the high schools, right, 293 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: So things have changed quite a bit now. But we 294 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: actually went to city schools and stayed in the city. 295 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: Kids don't even stay in the city for high school anymore. 296 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: That's a big difference. So now you're developing rivalries almost 297 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 1: through grade school and you've seen the same guys, and 298 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 1: as you said earlier, you develop your reputation each and 299 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: every day. It doesn't last. You have a good game 300 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: that doesn't last for two weeks. You had a good 301 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 1: game yesterday, What are you gonna do today? And a 302 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 1: lot of time. For me, a lot of times being 303 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: the only white guy, I had to like prove myself 304 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: to even come back the next day because if I 305 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: played like trash everything, I might not be invited back. So, 306 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: you know, looking back, it really prepared me for you know, 307 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 1: bringing it each and every day, which that's what pros do. 308 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: Pros bring it every day. Anyone can play good once 309 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: in a while, the pros bring it every single day. 310 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:10,119 Speaker 1: And to do that you need not only motivation, a 311 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 1: little pressure on you and that's pressure to go prove 312 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,199 Speaker 1: yourself each and every day. You know there's something to 313 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 1: that that you feel, that pressure, that stress to perform. 314 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: So when you met with Ed Pinckney, we see one 315 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 1: of the guys outside of the games with the church. 316 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: Because pickup games, if you go to different neighborhoods, especially 317 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: a white dude, you go to different neighborhoods who was 318 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: sort of taking you around the playball. Just pickup games 319 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: in different hoods because that's where like dudes with no name, 320 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: but they play hard, like New York City street basketball. 321 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: Even in mind, like dudes play hard and they might 322 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: not even play for a high school team. You're like, yeah, 323 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 1: who is this dude? Oh, he's just that's Jeff. He's nice, 324 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: but he doesn't play. Yeah, I used to go. I 325 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: had a buddy of mine lived in on twentieth and seventh. 326 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: Right when you go down to West Faur Street, the cave, 327 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 1: I play down there. That's straight. You walk on the court, 328 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,439 Speaker 1: you win, you stay, you lose, you're done again. You 329 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: win five, six, seven games in a row, all of 330 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: a suddenly, like yo, this guy could play right, but 331 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: you got to come back the next day to do 332 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: it again. We'd go to Carmine Street gym that was 333 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 1: indoor gym in the old school. It's almost like a 334 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 1: boxing gym on Carmine Street and play the same thing. 335 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: Can you go in and win a bunch of games, 336 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: gain your reputation. But with Riverside Church, we were going 337 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: to Mitchell Houses where tiny Ocherbo grew up. That was 338 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 1: his tournament. We'd play in El McColl, which was out 339 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: in Queens. Someday we played three or four games a 340 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: day in different burrows. Right, so a little by little, 341 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: you know, in Riverside. I don't think we lost many games, 342 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 1: maybe one. We didn't lose many games. We were going 343 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: around all of the burrows. On the train. I used 344 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: to meet the van. I used to actually meet the 345 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: van on one hundred twenty fifth and the right over 346 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: to Tribal Bridge and then I get in that van. 347 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: They would take us around. Yeah, So cruising a van 348 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: with these guys, getting to know them, it opened up 349 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: my eyes to stuffed more than basketball, but also toughened 350 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: me up. It was on high alert all the time, 351 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 1: from a competitive standpoint, from a safety standpoint, all those things. 352 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: I mean, look him back, I think I learned more 353 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:24,360 Speaker 1: just traveling the city by subway, by bus, by a van, 354 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,439 Speaker 1: different neighborhoods, different vibes. I think I learned more in 355 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: that period my life than any class I took in 356 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: high school or college. I'm sure who were some of 357 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: the names besides Ed who were some of the gauchos. 358 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: I mean New York basketball at the time, was you know, 359 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: Strickland's a little younger than you. I think, yeah, so Pearl, 360 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: And talk about Pearl because he passed it. I always think, 361 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: just talk about some of the other guys that we 362 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: were playing against, playing with so right below me, so 363 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 1: with me, we had Eddie Pickney, Jerry Reynolds, Beatle Washington Beatles, 364 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 1: Pearls brother not his brother was the same. He went 365 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: he went to Alexander Hamilton's Okay, yeah, but he was 366 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 1: a heck of a player. Jerry Reynolds was like ahead 367 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: of his time. Yeah, Ice Man, Stephan Maberry's older brothers 368 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: all were playing at Lincoln at that time. You know, 369 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 1: right before me was Bernardo Albert King. You know. So 370 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: there was an incredible amount of players throughout the city. 371 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: But right around my time, I went, I want to 372 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: go to school in nineteen eighty one, right, and I'm 373 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: a freshman sophomore, and we're recruiting these four guards, Mark Jackson, 374 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:38,120 Speaker 1: Kenny Smith, Pearl Washington, and the kid named Kenny Hutchinson, 375 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:43,199 Speaker 1: all incredibly talented cards, all in New York City schools. 376 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: Marks at Lachlan Stricks at Truman, Kenny's right down the 377 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: block from Saint John's, Kenny Smith that Archbishop Malloy, and 378 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: I think Kenny Hutchins is at Benjamin Franklin. So this 379 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: is four guys we're recruiting, and at some point, you know, 380 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: coach Connorseck is like, you know, whoever signs first, I'm 381 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: taken because they're all great, great players. So Mark Jackson 382 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: winds up signing with us, and at that point, probably 383 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: not the most heralded of those four, right, but wind 384 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 1: up having the greatest career of all of them. Right. 385 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: So Walter Berry another guy we wound up signing in 386 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: Saint John's. Walter was one of my favorite players because 387 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: he was left handed. He had everybody doing that shot 388 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: that he did. You know, we'd go up and sort 389 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: of why don't you think Walter was able to transcend 390 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: into the NBA? Yeah, first of all, he's the one guy. 391 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: So this day everyone asked me about you know, if 392 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: I'm if I'm back. He was a player of the year, 393 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 1: he was eighty six Player of the Year. Just a 394 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: unique game though, and always had huge games against Georgetown, 395 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 1: and like you said, just a unique style, very unorthodox. 396 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 1: Would his shot, he would he would release it at 397 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: all different going up and every time he dunked he 398 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: would fall down. But to this day that's like everyone's like, 399 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 1: what is that guy Walter Berry doing now? But yeah, 400 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: his game did not transition as much because at that 401 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: point in time, they had legit bigs because Walter was 402 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 1: what six seven, he's like six to eight, but was 403 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: more of a center, played inside, didn't really step out, 404 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: didn't really have a jump shot. So at that point 405 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: in time, you either big or you played on the premier. 406 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: We didn't have that positionless type basketball, right. But he 407 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,719 Speaker 1: went overseas, had a great career overseas, and he's just 408 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 1: a really good guy. But a legend, you know, again 409 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: in New York City, legend. People always bring his name 410 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: up to me all the time. They always want to 411 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 1: know what what the Barry's doing. Legend You went to 412 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: Saint John's. And there's so many questions I could ask you. 413 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: I can only ask you so many questions in one pocket. 414 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,479 Speaker 1: You went to Saint John's. What other schools were recruiting you? 415 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: What other schools were you considering? Yeah, so I visited 416 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 1: coming out of when I was a senior in high school, 417 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: I visited a Villanova, Duke, Virginia, and Louisville. That were 418 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: my four visits. And basically I had a unique relationship 419 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 1: with coach Kona Second. I had gone to his basketball 420 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,400 Speaker 1: camp since I was twelve years old, so I knew 421 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: him as a coach, I knew him as a person. 422 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 1: So when I took those visits, and I had great visits, 423 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,959 Speaker 1: they were all very nice. But in my mind when 424 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: I went on those weekend visits, I was always looking 425 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: through I have something here that I don't have at home. 426 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 1: You already had this. Yeah, I knew Saint John's was. 427 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: It was a great place. It's a good fit for me. 428 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: I loved the coach. So every time I went, you know, 429 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 1: for that weekend, I was like, Wow, this is really nice. 430 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,639 Speaker 1: But then I got home by Monday or Tuesday at 431 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 1: war off, like I was like, I'm good Man, I 432 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: don't need to go anywhere else. Coach k was his 433 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: first year at Duke, his first recruiting year. Really impressive 434 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: my mom, I think looking back, I think she kind 435 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: of wanted me to go there to a degree. They 436 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 1: didn't have that pedigree yet. I hadn't become Duke yet. 437 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,199 Speaker 1: Coach k wasn't Coach k yet. Yeah, so it was 438 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: you know, I kind of just really it was really 439 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: coach kind a second. That's why I went there. It 440 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: wasn't you know, at that point in time, Saint John's 441 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: it was a commuter school. It was basically going to 442 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: you know, extension of high school. So it wasn't the 443 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 1: facility is It wasn't you know, all the raw raw stuff. 444 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: It was my relationship with Coach Kaca because even when 445 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: I was just there, when you were back at Saint John's, 446 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: I'm like, this is Saint John's. Yeah, Like so I 447 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 1: imagine when you played there it was like even less 448 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,199 Speaker 1: like yeah, because there was no big deal. It's not. 449 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: It's a small school, yeah, especially back in the eighties 450 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 1: where it was commuter school. So when you know, three 451 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: nothing now there is, but there was not, But it 452 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 1: was it was did you live at home when you 453 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,479 Speaker 1: play there. Now we got apartments near school, so that 454 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: was nice, but it was not your typical college experience. 455 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: But it just shows you the power and the trust 456 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 1: and the love that we all have for coach Kanaseca. 457 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 1: That's what made it work because if when you went 458 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 1: on the other visits, there was way more attractive things 459 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: at those other campuses, but the thing that kept bringing 460 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,160 Speaker 1: players to that university was coach lu Konnaseca. Right, because 461 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: this is in Queens. No disrespect to Queens, but it's 462 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: like it's like out there, Yeah, let me jump into this. 463 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: The Big East at the time, which is no more. 464 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 1: There's been documentaries, movies. There should be a Ken Burns 465 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: twelve part documentary. ESPN did a great Big East thing. 466 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,439 Speaker 1: We all the fans reminisce about it. I'm sure the 467 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: players reminisce about it. It was such a unique time. 468 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: There was so many good players in so many the 469 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 1: Carrier Dome, you know, you'd see these games on ESPN. 470 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 1: Villanova I didn't even know where the eleven twelve years 471 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 1: old and white. Where the fuck is Villanova? You know, 472 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,120 Speaker 1: in Boston College. When did you realize that the Big 473 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 1: East was becoming a thing, and what were those games like? Yeah, 474 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: so you know, growing up, I would watch Saint John's, 475 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: but they weren't on TV all the time. Local TV, Yeah, 476 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: local TV. Maybe on a Saturday afternoon ECAC Game of 477 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: the Week or something like that. But again, I had 478 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: this relationship with coach Connesseca beyond you know, college basketball 479 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: things like that. I got to know him as a 480 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: you know, as a person. But the perfect storm right 481 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: ESPN S thoughts In nineteen seventy nine, the Big East's 482 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: f by Dave Gavitt, who was the head coach at Providence, 483 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: your basketball visionary, and he basically saw this opportunity to 484 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: create a local league. You know, you had those Big 485 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: Football League, the Big Ten and the Big you know 486 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: ab out here at that point it was probably the 487 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: PAC eight, which is the Pac twelve now. But he 488 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: had this vision of creating a local East Coast basketball 489 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: only conference, which a lot of you know, coaches and 490 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: I think athletic directors were, you know, not too keen 491 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: on it at the first because you can make your 492 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 1: own schedule, if you get your twenty wins, you get 493 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: in the tournament, you kind of controlled your own destiny 494 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: where now all of a sudden, your schedules carved out 495 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: and you're playing all these great teams you know, home 496 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: and home, and you know it puts a little more pressure. 497 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: So I think at first it was like an unconventional 498 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: theory to these coaches, but it wound up being the 499 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: best thing for all those schools. So nineteen seventy nine, 500 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: it starts, you know, it's Saint John's Syracuse, and we 501 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: know all the teams and all the legendary coaches, Coach Karaseca, 502 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: Jim Beheim. I mean, it's literally like it really is. 503 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: And when you look back at that documentary on ESPN 504 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: really because it's like this spaghetti guy in Villanova, John 505 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: Thompson with his presidence, Beheim's nuts, Karna Ska's nuts, I mean, 506 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: these are personnelity. But what it did, Michael, was it 507 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: gave players like myself another reason to stay home. Right, 508 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: you didn't have to go away to get national exposure. 509 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: So and so the perfect storm was ESPN's growing. They 510 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: need content, this league's formed, it's right in their backyard. Boom, 511 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: ESPN Big Monday, it made they made each other. ESPN made, 512 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 1: uh the Big East, but the Big East put ESPN 513 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,719 Speaker 1: on the map, right, and it exploded. It was the timing, 514 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,959 Speaker 1: which we do not control, right do. You always have 515 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: to be prepared for opportunity, but you never know when 516 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: it's gonna come. So all of a sudden, look, the 517 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: Big East had its eighty eighty one. So I got 518 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: school name. It was two three years old. Right. They 519 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: had some good play Louis all who you know rest 520 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: in Pec he just passed away, Roosevelt Bowie, you know, 521 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: Reggie Carter, George Chown, had some great players, John Dorn. 522 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: They had some great, beautiful games. And you know they're 523 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: playing at Manley Fieldhouse before they carried dome. So it 524 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: was it was in motion. But this business connection with 525 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: ESPN and the Big East just exploded and the players 526 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: and but also yeah, so Patrick Ewing, who's a number 527 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: one player in the country a year year? Wait year 528 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: did he come ye? Same year in nineteen eighty one. 529 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: What was the first time you saw Patrick play? First 530 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: time I saw him in person was at the McDonald's 531 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,719 Speaker 1: All American game. Who else was in that game? Michael Jordan, 532 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: Bill Wennington, Wait a second, wait a second, your high 533 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: school game? Okay, you fucked me up. With that. Okay, 534 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: start again, Michael Jordan, Patrick Ewing, Bill Wennington, one of 535 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: the pros, Adrian Branch, who was the MVP of that game. 536 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: West Coast was full of UCLA and Nigel Miguel full 537 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: of UCLA guys. But that's the first time I was 538 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: with them Patrick. I had played against Patrick in the 539 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: Boston Shootout, which was a tournament post high school. I 540 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: played for Riverside Church and we played the Boston team 541 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: which Patrick was on. On that team was Pearl Washington, 542 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: Dwayne Johnson, myself, Jerry Reynolds had a nasty dunk compass 543 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 1: and art coach was Tiny Oucherbald for that tournament, and 544 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 1: the Boston team had Patrick, Dwayne McLain, Gary McClain, the 545 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 1: guys that played at Villanova. Their coach was Dave Cowens. Wow. 546 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: So that you know, that was the first time I 547 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: played against him, right, and then obviously we all knew 548 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: who he was. He was number one playing the country. 549 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: But getting back to the Big East, it gave him 550 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: a reason to stay in the East. Coat you didn't 551 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: have to go to Carolina to UCLA to get this platform. 552 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: So Patrick actually visited Boston College. He was from Massachusetts. 553 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 1: There he was from Cambridge, Ridge, Ridge and Latin High 554 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,719 Speaker 1: School in Massachusetts. He visited BC when obviously went to Georgetown. 555 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 1: Eddie Pickney, right, another great, great high school, big time 556 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: recruit went to Villanova. Me and Bill Winnington went to 557 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: Saint John. All of a sudden, this Big East is 558 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: keeping their star players home. They're not leaving the East Coast, 559 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: right And you know, the first time I really felt 560 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: the impact of this exposure on ESPN was, you know, 561 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: after my college where I come out here to Golden 562 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: State and all the kids know who I am. They 563 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: all watched the you know, out here on the West coast, 564 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: the Big Monday comes on at four pm. They rushed 565 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 1: home from school and they watched The Big East. Right now, 566 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, and you saw in that documentary 567 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: Jim Behian goes, I fly into LA to recruit a kid, 568 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: and the baggage thinking, oh, you're Pearl Washington's coach. So 569 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: that the exposia and the popularity of just exploded. And 570 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 1: it was a phenomenon the way it came together so quickly. 571 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,799 Speaker 1: So I think it started seventy nine, in nineteen eighty five, 572 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:16,840 Speaker 1: three or four Big East teams were in the final four, Villanova, Georgetown, 573 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: and Saint John's. The fourth team was at that time 574 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: known as Memphis State University right now the University of 575 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 1: Memphis now again, I can't get to everything. We've mentioned 576 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: Pearl a few times. He's one of my favorite players. 577 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,839 Speaker 1: How good was Pearl in high school? What was so 578 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,359 Speaker 1: unique about him going into college? Just give a little 579 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,720 Speaker 1: hole manage to the great Pearl Washington, no doubt, Dwayne 580 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 1: Pearl Washington. I met him when he was a freshman 581 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 1: in high school, really, and at that point in time, 582 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: he had an NBA game already. He was physically advanced, 583 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 1: more than anybody's strong lower body quick He had a 584 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: unique combination of strength and quickness, an incredible ball handling. 585 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,479 Speaker 1: You know, he had to Tim Hardaway crossover before everyone 586 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: knew who Tim Hardaway was. He In my opinion, he 587 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: brought the crossover to mainstream because Tim Nick van Hexel. 588 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: Tim led to Allen Iverson and so forth and so on, 589 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: and Tim talks about the influence of Pearl, right And 590 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: that's why I always like when you talk about point coach, 591 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:19,800 Speaker 1: when you talk about dribbling, when you talk about any 592 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,799 Speaker 1: of this crossover stuff. What it's done now, like it 593 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 1: should be cold almost now. The Pearl Washington move. Yeah, 594 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: he revolutionized the ball handling. You think about it, Mike, 595 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: and you watched those Georgetown teams. They were that Georgetown 596 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 1: team the years out they were an NBA team. They 597 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 1: had five or six NBA players on their roster. Nasty, 598 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 1: tough defense, first and foremost full court man a man. 599 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,280 Speaker 1: Pearl would walk through that thing like they were standing still. 600 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: And you know, the Georgetown press was something everybody feared 601 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,320 Speaker 1: and you had a press breaker. Syracuse just gave the 602 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:55,839 Speaker 1: ball a Pearl instead of get out of my way. 603 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,720 Speaker 1: I'm dribbling through this thing. I got this and then 604 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 1: you know he Georgetown play his own which they never 605 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: did and usually against his zone you needed shooting. Pearl 606 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 1: just dribbled through it and finished over the top. So 607 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: he was a nasty and he's so ahead of his time, 608 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,879 Speaker 1: you know. I mean when we when we would play 609 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 1: Syracuse and coach connessec would, you know, go over the 610 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: scanner he put on the board. He would jokingly say it, 611 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: but almost he had like somewhat he goes this guy Pearl, 612 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:28,959 Speaker 1: he's just a different type player. He goes I swear 613 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:30,440 Speaker 1: to God, I think I coached against him in the 614 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 1: ABA like ten years ago. That's how long. By the 615 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: time he was in eighth grade, he was so mature 616 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: as a player, and you knew so much about him. Again, 617 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,240 Speaker 1: pre social media. It was all by word of mouth 618 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,240 Speaker 1: and by him going to different parts of the city 619 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 1: and just killing in the parks and just gaining this reputation. 620 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 1: And he backed it up. And he was a great, 621 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: great guy. He was loved the game. He was charismatic, 622 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,319 Speaker 1: I mean way beyond his years on and off the court. Really, 623 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: he was a you know, a guy loved It was 624 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 1: sad to see, you know, what happened to him, But 625 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,720 Speaker 1: my felt, Me and Ed Pickney went to that funeral together. 626 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 1: So that's great. Now, when you mentioned your high school 627 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:16,880 Speaker 1: all American, we just skirted over some guy Michael Sea, 628 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 1: some guy at that time, who is Michael Jordan? Was 629 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 1: he any better? Like, you're all American? You guys are 630 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: all young. You gotta eagos. Everybody's from all over the country. 631 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,359 Speaker 1: You're not growing up watching them on Instagram at that 632 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 1: moment when you're a high school all American? Who is 633 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 1: this George kid? Yeah, so much is he any better 634 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: than anybody else. Well, first you see the name Michael 635 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,919 Speaker 1: Jordan magazines as a first team All American or whatever, 636 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:12,279 Speaker 1: and see Wilmington, North Carolina, Like okay, like what, like, right, 637 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 1: you're the best in Wilmington. Yeah, you're willing from New 638 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 1: York City Wilming to North Carolina. Gave me a break, 639 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 1: but you asked me. The first time I saw Patrick, 640 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: The first time I saw Michael physically was at that 641 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 1: McDonald's All American game in nineteen eighty one in Wichita, Kansas. 642 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 1: And at those games, it's you know, it's after the season, 643 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 1: it's just a showcase. You have some walk through practices, 644 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 1: you know. I remember getting to Wichita and you know, 645 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 1: had like nine am practice. So by the time I 646 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:41,759 Speaker 1: got in the fly you get up there, you kind 647 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 1: of tired. Everyone's sitting on the bench just kind of like, okay, 648 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 1: we're gonna have like a little walk through. And there's 649 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 1: this guy out there just grabbed the basketball, is going 650 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,200 Speaker 1: up and down full court by himself, dunking and running. 651 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,640 Speaker 1: I'm like, whoa, Like what is this guy doing? Like 652 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: this is kind of insane, the athleticism and early in 653 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: the morning, and that was Michael. In that particular game, 654 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,399 Speaker 1: he had a great He had like thirty I think 655 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:07,479 Speaker 1: at that time was the highest he had thirty maybe 656 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,280 Speaker 1: thirty five points. He did not get the MVP, which 657 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 1: later on he used as motivation. Jesus, these are one 658 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,920 Speaker 1: of these. Well, Adrian Branch got the MVP. Who aren't 659 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:20,880 Speaker 1: going to Maryland? So then now they're in the ACC 660 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: conference together. Yeah, it didn't work out too good for Adrian. 661 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,319 Speaker 1: So that was one of those that's one of those things. 662 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,120 Speaker 1: Michael got them. He was clearly MVP. He did not 663 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 1: get it, but he used that. You know how Michael 664 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,719 Speaker 1: was historically known for using these snubs as motivation. That 665 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:38,960 Speaker 1: was one one that's never been that's probably an outtake 666 00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,720 Speaker 1: from the last. That's leg that's legit. Did he seem 667 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: like a great athlete or a very very very good 668 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,399 Speaker 1: athlete who could play ball. Like when you just think 669 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 1: about that memory, and it's hard to because you played 670 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:53,959 Speaker 1: against him, played with him, but like at that time 671 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,279 Speaker 1: when you saw him, like could you even fathom that 672 00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 1: he was so McDonald's All American game? You know, then 673 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 1: he goes obviously goes to North Carolina. I played against 674 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 1: him twice when he was in college, played with him 675 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 1: in the eighty four Olympics. But you talk about, you 676 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: know when I first saw him. I'm friends of mine, 677 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: you know, tell me to this day. We remember when 678 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 1: you came back from Wichita. You're saying that you saw 679 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 1: the best player you've ever seen before, and we were like, yo, 680 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:23,840 Speaker 1: They're like really, like all those guys you play with 681 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 1: in New York and all those guys in the Big 682 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,319 Speaker 1: East and you know whatever these how was this guy 683 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,439 Speaker 1: the best? So I don't remember saying it, but people 684 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,879 Speaker 1: say they said you came back like, yo, this guy 685 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: is different. So you asked me what said him apart 686 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,400 Speaker 1: was Yes, his athleticism was off the chunk, the greatest 687 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 1: athlete in the gym, but was really fundamentally sound. Now, 688 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,440 Speaker 1: if you think about it, you watched Michael Jordan's highlights, 689 00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,920 Speaker 1: and you see the sick dunks, you know, just the 690 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 1: you know, the nasty dunks over people and just phenomenal 691 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 1: clutch shots. But if you watch that entire possession, he 692 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:04,840 Speaker 1: does something fundamentally sound, you know, perfect denial defense, a 693 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,960 Speaker 1: good week side help. He very fundamentally sound basketball player. 694 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,959 Speaker 1: He moved without the basketball beautifully, playing at North Carolina. 695 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:13,399 Speaker 1: You know a lot of people said the only person 696 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,360 Speaker 1: that held him down was Dean Smith. But also to me, 697 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,880 Speaker 1: he was world coaching high school and at North Carolina. 698 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,360 Speaker 1: And at North Carolina, he also played with star players. 699 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,640 Speaker 1: He played with James Worthy, he played with Sam Perkins, 700 00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:30,240 Speaker 1: so he understood the team game yet had that incredible 701 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,600 Speaker 1: athletic ability, but the knowledge in the field for the 702 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,960 Speaker 1: game with him without the basketball. So you put all 703 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:43,719 Speaker 1: that together and you got Michael Jordan and incredibly competitive 704 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:50,520 Speaker 1: beyond compare. That was real. Yeah still is if you 705 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 1: see him now, like it's something. Go yeah, golf, You're 706 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,319 Speaker 1: gonna try and take your lungs. Man. Now. We talked 707 00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,480 Speaker 1: about Pearl, We talked about these other guys. I want 708 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: to talk about you. Where was your head at in 709 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:07,000 Speaker 1: terms of playing in the NBA your freshman, sophomore year, 710 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:12,840 Speaker 1: and your workouts were legendary too, Like if Instagram existed 711 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,919 Speaker 1: when you were in high school, your workouts would You'd 712 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 1: be like one of these guys would be like, here 713 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 1: was his workouts? Because I remember when I was in 714 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 1: the eighth grade. I don't have to do the math, 715 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:24,960 Speaker 1: but there was an article about you in the New 716 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:29,520 Speaker 1: York Times, and they talked about your workouts. Twofold questions. 717 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:33,000 Speaker 1: Where was your head in terms of the reality of 718 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:35,040 Speaker 1: playing in the NBA. You're a kid from Brooklyn, You're 719 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,200 Speaker 1: playing in Saint John's. But also talk to me about 720 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,440 Speaker 1: what you did when no one was around in the 721 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,879 Speaker 1: gym to compete at the level you compete in because 722 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:49,320 Speaker 1: you weren't that quick. I bring slow as molasses. You dunked. 723 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,839 Speaker 1: The last time I show you dunked the ball, Saint 724 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,839 Speaker 1: John's was blowing out Syracuse. In carried them. You bounced it. 725 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,319 Speaker 1: It was fancy. It was the fanciest Chris Mullen player. 726 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,200 Speaker 1: You bounce yourself and dunk, and if it had been 727 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,840 Speaker 1: on Instagram, the world would have stopped like it was 728 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,400 Speaker 1: one of those things like I didn't even know this 729 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 1: fucking guy could touch the net. But just talk to 730 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,480 Speaker 1: me about your workouts and where your head was at 731 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 1: in terms of playing in the NBA. Yeah, so, Michael, 732 00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:16,240 Speaker 1: that goes back to um. You know, I was blessed 733 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 1: to have a great family around me. You know, my 734 00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:22,560 Speaker 1: older brother was an incredible athlete. I followed in his footsteps. 735 00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,480 Speaker 1: The neighborhood I grew up in We played every sport. 736 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,399 Speaker 1: We swam, we were on a swim team, We played 737 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,160 Speaker 1: little league baseball, we played stickball, we played where football, 738 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,600 Speaker 1: we played bounce ball, we played stup ball. Everything was 739 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:36,920 Speaker 1: around sports. So whether it be you know, and my 740 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:38,919 Speaker 1: dad used to say that a lot of those games 741 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,600 Speaker 1: that I played as a kid really helped my hand 742 00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:45,640 Speaker 1: eye coordination, being ambidexterious, you know, doing all those street games. 743 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,880 Speaker 1: In a way, there's there's a transfer of that, you know. 744 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,480 Speaker 1: Now kids they get so specific with one sports. It 745 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:55,040 Speaker 1: was cool growing up and playing all those different sports. 746 00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,040 Speaker 1: But I was blessed to have a great family but 747 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,920 Speaker 1: an incredibly great coaches at a young age, not only 748 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,520 Speaker 1: the way they taught me fundamentally how to play the 749 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,239 Speaker 1: game of basketball, but why I was playing. I was 750 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:11,520 Speaker 1: not playing to necessarily get to the NBA. I was 751 00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:15,719 Speaker 1: playing and I was taught practice habits at a young 752 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:20,279 Speaker 1: age to get better that day, which sounds simple and 753 00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:24,000 Speaker 1: sounds kind of obvious, but that's not the deal now. 754 00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:28,160 Speaker 1: The deal now is to get to that make that money, 755 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 1: whatever that materialist same thing is, and there's an endpoint there. 756 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,480 Speaker 1: I still enjoy the game of basketball, and I do 757 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,880 Speaker 1: believe because that was the way I was introduced to it, 758 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,960 Speaker 1: the way I was taught it. So I lived. I 759 00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,600 Speaker 1: lived on Troy Avenue. It was one block of Flapp 760 00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,279 Speaker 1: of Chavenue and on Flapper Chavue and Flatlands. It was 761 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:48,960 Speaker 1: a school called Saint Thomas Aquinas. That was my grade school. 762 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,720 Speaker 1: So I could walk up there in one minute. My coach, 763 00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,480 Speaker 1: the janitor, this guy named Wally Dean, gave me a 764 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,480 Speaker 1: key of the gym. But the deal they made was 765 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,279 Speaker 1: when I went in there, I had to work on 766 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:04,640 Speaker 1: my game. I wasn't in there to be fucking around, 767 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:07,319 Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't in there to be bringing other 768 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,799 Speaker 1: people in there and you know, sneaking all this shit. 769 00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,520 Speaker 1: If we're going to give you the key, but you 770 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,040 Speaker 1: need to work on your game. And I would write 771 00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,879 Speaker 1: some stuff down I had to do, which was what 772 00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 1: ball handling and walk me be simple as I want 773 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,879 Speaker 1: basketball nerves ship as this so I'm in fourth fifth grade. 774 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:29,160 Speaker 1: As simple as zig zag dribbling right hand zig zag, 775 00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:32,160 Speaker 1: drill the left hand back you know, Mike, and drill 776 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,480 Speaker 1: free throws and then then you could play. But there 777 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,840 Speaker 1: was a specific thing I had to get done before 778 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,320 Speaker 1: I played. So it was a combination of skill development 779 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:45,719 Speaker 1: then compete right, you do both right equally right. So 780 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,880 Speaker 1: it wasn't just because you know, back then if you 781 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,480 Speaker 1: were a shooter didn't mean you could play right. There's 782 00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:53,799 Speaker 1: lack of guys who could shoot that couldn't play right, 783 00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:55,920 Speaker 1: but the lack of guys who could play it who 784 00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,560 Speaker 1: couldn't shoot right. So having both I would That was 785 00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,440 Speaker 1: introduced to me at a young age. So from a 786 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,479 Speaker 1: young age, I always even when I went to the park, 787 00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,720 Speaker 1: would I would shoot and then play or play then shoot, 788 00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:12,759 Speaker 1: always do both skill development, compete, compete skill development. So 789 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:14,560 Speaker 1: that was ingraining me at a young age. Thank god 790 00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,920 Speaker 1: from this guy Jack ELSI Lupa Cola my Cyo coaches. 791 00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,320 Speaker 1: The other thing was I had access to this gym, 792 00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,040 Speaker 1: and in my neighborhood was Sundays we were at the 793 00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:27,480 Speaker 1: I was at the gym from nine to the morning 794 00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:31,160 Speaker 1: to ten at night, watching games, reffing games, working the concessions, 795 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,120 Speaker 1: then working the front door collecting money. I was just 796 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:39,239 Speaker 1: there all the time. So I'm watching girls games, young 797 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:44,520 Speaker 1: kids younger than me, kids older than me, just watching, listening, 798 00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:48,960 Speaker 1: you know, hanging around coaches. So I was blessed to 799 00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:53,720 Speaker 1: have that fundamental introduction to the game, and that carried 800 00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:59,000 Speaker 1: on through high school and obviously in college. So you know, 801 00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:02,359 Speaker 1: to me, how you're introduced to the game and why 802 00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:04,960 Speaker 1: you play the game is really important because at some 803 00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:09,000 Speaker 1: point I would have reached an endpoint, but that was 804 00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:12,520 Speaker 1: not my thing. It wasn't to get just to the NBA. 805 00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:14,439 Speaker 1: But so so you asked me who, so, like, when 806 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,440 Speaker 1: did I have that feeling that maybe I could or 807 00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,600 Speaker 1: was that a dream? Yeah? Look, I love wal Frasier. 808 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,200 Speaker 1: I loved those Knicks teams, but that seems so far away. 809 00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,480 Speaker 1: They were like way over there, like for me to 810 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,279 Speaker 1: master Square Garden, I couldn't get there, you know, I 811 00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:34,319 Speaker 1: mean that seemed like not even a dream. But I 812 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,799 Speaker 1: mentioned Jack Elsie, who was my CYO coach. He also 813 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,319 Speaker 1: coached me a Zavarian high school. I remember driving with him. 814 00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,040 Speaker 1: I was a junior. I had transferred school. I left 815 00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,360 Speaker 1: Power transferred to Zavarian. I was sitting out, so I 816 00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:48,440 Speaker 1: was training on my own. Jack was training trying to 817 00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:50,359 Speaker 1: keep me in shape because I was gonna come into 818 00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,720 Speaker 1: the Zavarian play that January of my senior year. Because 819 00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:57,120 Speaker 1: I had to sit out because I transferred. I remember 820 00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:00,799 Speaker 1: driving with him and he said. I remember in his car, 821 00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,879 Speaker 1: He's like, have you ever thought about could you play 822 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:05,960 Speaker 1: in the NBA. I'm like, come on, man, no way. 823 00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,919 Speaker 1: So he brought up a name, which at the time 824 00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,600 Speaker 1: was you know someone compared to. He goes, you know 825 00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:17,640 Speaker 1: Ernie Grenfeld. Yeah, of course, Ernie and Bernie. He goes 826 00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:22,200 Speaker 1: six four six five. That's what you are. I think 827 00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:24,319 Speaker 1: you can shoot like him and Ernie had made an 828 00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,719 Speaker 1: All Star team, right. It was the first time he 829 00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,320 Speaker 1: put a name and someone to compare, like, you're similar 830 00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:35,080 Speaker 1: to if he could do it, you could do it. 831 00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:39,400 Speaker 1: Looked like seemed like from here, so all of a sudden, 832 00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:43,719 Speaker 1: it's not that far fetch. So maybe maybe, but nah, 833 00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,000 Speaker 1: but my baby's it's in the back of my head there. 834 00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:50,000 Speaker 1: And then I have a really successful senior year and 835 00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:53,239 Speaker 1: then going to Saint John's. Even my freshman year of 836 00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,200 Speaker 1: Saint John's, I was not even thinking about the NBA. 837 00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:58,359 Speaker 1: The first time it really popped in that it could 838 00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,080 Speaker 1: be reality was my sophomore year, which was one of 839 00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,640 Speaker 1: my favorite years ever. Why we had a great team. 840 00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,640 Speaker 1: I was really the young buck on on a veteran team. 841 00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,880 Speaker 1: David Russell, Billy Goodwin, Bob Kelly, Kevin Williams, Bill went 842 00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:17,160 Speaker 1: into was on that team, but I was a sophomore 843 00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:21,919 Speaker 1: and those guys were seniors. Let's say Billy Goodwin. Yeah, 844 00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,560 Speaker 1: so these guys were great veteran guys. We should have 845 00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:27,960 Speaker 1: won a national championship. We were twenty eight and three. 846 00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,600 Speaker 1: We lost up at the carry down to Georgia, who 847 00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:33,760 Speaker 1: wind up going to the final four. But we really 848 00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:35,680 Speaker 1: were one of the best teams in the country that year. 849 00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,439 Speaker 1: But after that season, I remember I had a really 850 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:42,520 Speaker 1: good year, you know, effishing and you know, just had 851 00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,319 Speaker 1: a really good year. And I remember waking up one 852 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,600 Speaker 1: day in New York post was like, is Mullan gonna 853 00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,040 Speaker 1: go pro? Which I had never even there wasn't a 854 00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:53,960 Speaker 1: thing back then, but it was I think the article 855 00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:57,000 Speaker 1: rated the top two guards and I was in that mix. 856 00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:01,239 Speaker 1: Who were the other ones? Eighty three was probably like 857 00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:05,200 Speaker 1: Clyde Drexel. That's that's the year NC State won the championship, 858 00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:10,440 Speaker 1: right right, So it was Houston, NC stayed, Michael went 859 00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,439 Speaker 1: eighty four. So eighty three is a year before all 860 00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,399 Speaker 1: those guys. But it's just an article that gets out 861 00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:18,799 Speaker 1: that it could be and I didn't think about it. 862 00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,839 Speaker 1: It had no traction. But again it's the second time, Like, man, 863 00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,160 Speaker 1: I'm kind of trending that way, like and it just 864 00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:30,640 Speaker 1: it motivates you more. Uh, it gets you like, it 865 00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:32,960 Speaker 1: gets you hungry, like let me, let me keep climbing, 866 00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,959 Speaker 1: let me keep climbing, and then you know, eighty four 867 00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:42,120 Speaker 1: good season Olympic team. Now of a sudden, that Olympic 868 00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:45,719 Speaker 1: team I played on in nineteen eighty four. Shoot, I 869 00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,919 Speaker 1: think eight of the eight of those guys that were 870 00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:51,759 Speaker 1: top draft picks. One of the only the only four 871 00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:55,239 Speaker 1: award that we'd stayed in school. The eighty four Olympic 872 00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:59,800 Speaker 1: team tryouts. Again, if there had been phones and video 873 00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:02,440 Speaker 1: footage and it had been documented as well as some 874 00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:05,360 Speaker 1: of the other things, I'm sure the footage is probably ridiculous. 875 00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:11,239 Speaker 1: Everybody tried out, John Stocked and Karl Malone, Len Bias, 876 00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:15,560 Speaker 1: Michael Jordan's on the team, Pearl Washington. John Stockton said 877 00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,319 Speaker 1: Pearl Washington was the best player. I mean, I looked 878 00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:22,719 Speaker 1: at the list of names. It's incredible. What do you 879 00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,719 Speaker 1: remember about those tryouts? It was it Bobby Knights to coach. 880 00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:29,279 Speaker 1: It's in Indiana. He's literally like you have to make 881 00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:33,080 Speaker 1: the team, right, it's a legitimate tryout. So seventy two 882 00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:37,240 Speaker 1: players are invited, college players, seventy two the top players, 883 00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:41,000 Speaker 1: and the tryouts are in Bloomington, Indiana. Bobby Knight is 884 00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:45,040 Speaker 1: at the height of his powers. You know, seventy six 885 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:48,000 Speaker 1: they had the undefeated season. He's one of the most 886 00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:51,959 Speaker 1: powerful basketball people in the world. At that point in time. 887 00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:57,440 Speaker 1: The NBA is still second fiddle to college basketball. At 888 00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:01,120 Speaker 1: that point in time, college basketball was I think more popular. 889 00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:05,920 Speaker 1: Those coaches had tremendous power. And this is the Spring 890 00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,440 Speaker 1: of eight. April of eighty four is when the trout 891 00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:13,600 Speaker 1: started because there was this Summer Olympics obviously in July 892 00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,880 Speaker 1: and August. So we start, we report in April seventy 893 00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:22,920 Speaker 1: two of us. Well, the team winds up being Alvin Robertson, 894 00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:32,480 Speaker 1: Verne Fleming, Leon Wood, Steve Alford, myself, Contact. Well, then 895 00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,200 Speaker 1: that was gonna go be think Joe Klein, John Contact, 896 00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:41,440 Speaker 1: Jeff Turner, Sam Perkins, Waymond Tisdale, Patrick, and Michael So 897 00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:43,839 Speaker 1: it winds up being I think that's twelve. I think 898 00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,560 Speaker 1: I got everybody. But before we get to the guys 899 00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:48,320 Speaker 1: who made the team, yeah, so that was gonna go. 900 00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,480 Speaker 1: So that's the guys that made it. And you mentioned, okay, 901 00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:54,239 Speaker 1: the guys that were cut at the very end. So 902 00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,960 Speaker 1: it goes from seventy two and they cut it to 903 00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:01,360 Speaker 1: like forty, send you home and bring you back to 904 00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:03,640 Speaker 1: see if you're gonna come back in shape. And it 905 00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:06,120 Speaker 1: goes from forty to twenty. They send you home, bring 906 00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:07,680 Speaker 1: you back. You know, it's a little mind game to 907 00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,000 Speaker 1: see if you're gonna come back in shape. Then at 908 00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:13,160 Speaker 1: twenty you're together for a few weeks, and now it's 909 00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:15,879 Speaker 1: it's a battle. Every day. We're practicing three times a day, 910 00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:18,680 Speaker 1: not twice. Three times a day, three times a day, 911 00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:22,680 Speaker 1: full full practice, not shoot around, not taped up. You 912 00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:26,440 Speaker 1: get arrested for that now, right, probably probably so probably so. 913 00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:30,239 Speaker 1: So at twenty guys and you we're going at it. 914 00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:32,960 Speaker 1: You're battling at that point in time too. You mentioned 915 00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:35,320 Speaker 1: Dre the NBA players were not eligible, so it's the 916 00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:37,160 Speaker 1: one and only time you get a chance to play 917 00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,680 Speaker 1: for the Olympics, you know. So you were coming off 918 00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,720 Speaker 1: seventy two where we had that brutal loss. The medal 919 00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:47,120 Speaker 1: was stolen from US by Russia. Seventy six, we won, 920 00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:51,719 Speaker 1: eighty we boycotted, so eighty four. You know, it's a 921 00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:53,640 Speaker 1: big thing, you know, I mean it's the one and 922 00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:55,719 Speaker 1: only time you get to play. So it's each and 923 00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,759 Speaker 1: every practice session is pressure packed and you're trying to 924 00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,640 Speaker 1: do everything you can make that team. And dudes really 925 00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:04,080 Speaker 1: want it. Wasn't this Las fair thing. Dudes wanted to 926 00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,800 Speaker 1: make that team. No, you wanted to be invited first 927 00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,480 Speaker 1: and foremast getting invited. And then yes, yeah everyone was 928 00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,360 Speaker 1: clarin except for one guy, and we'll get to that 929 00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:14,600 Speaker 1: in a minute. But I love this. So we're down 930 00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:19,120 Speaker 1: to twenty. Some of the guys that that did not 931 00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:24,000 Speaker 1: make it. Mark Price, how sick? Was Mark so good? 932 00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:27,239 Speaker 1: So good like you talked about if they had you know, 933 00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:31,680 Speaker 1: he was doing shooting threes, off, picking rolls across yours 934 00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:36,239 Speaker 1: up splitting pick and roll, shooting floaters, just dynamic, quick 935 00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:39,760 Speaker 1: as shit. Yeah, just a little kid from Oklahoma. Looked 936 00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,880 Speaker 1: crazy like Opie, like Richie Cunningham. Yeah, no doubt. He 937 00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:47,160 Speaker 1: was nasty, skill personified, so nasty with that Cleveland team. 938 00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:51,600 Speaker 1: He's so good. Antoine car who had played a year overseas, 939 00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:55,840 Speaker 1: he was over the killing, dunking everything call him alone. 940 00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:01,160 Speaker 1: Cut who was karme alone at the time? Well, he was. 941 00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,840 Speaker 1: He was physically a monster. But again, like he played 942 00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:08,839 Speaker 1: Louisiana Tech, did you see him plage to see him player? 943 00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:10,560 Speaker 1: I never saw him play. I saw him play at 944 00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:13,040 Speaker 1: the trials, but I never saw Louisiana Tech. It wasn't 945 00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:17,520 Speaker 1: that interact, right, So you didn't see some of these players. 946 00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:21,120 Speaker 1: John Stockton, No, no, Gonzaga. Don't know what Gonzaga was. 947 00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:22,759 Speaker 1: Couldn't even pronounce it even know if it was a 948 00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:24,399 Speaker 1: school or now we thought maybe he was coming from 949 00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:29,839 Speaker 1: a company Gonzaga, but never made a mistake. Was flawless 950 00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:36,719 Speaker 1: and tough. He made to sixteen. Charles Barkley, what was 951 00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:39,800 Speaker 1: he so, Charles was? You know when we practiced, we 952 00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:42,480 Speaker 1: practicing this big. It was like six courts because it 953 00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:44,880 Speaker 1: was seventy two players. It was you know, stations and 954 00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:48,439 Speaker 1: full court games. Things going on. The gym is packed 955 00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:51,239 Speaker 1: with NBA scouts because that's now they're watching all the 956 00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:53,799 Speaker 1: players for the draft. But all the best players are 957 00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,239 Speaker 1: here in Bloomington, so everyone's there as from as far 958 00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,680 Speaker 1: as a personnel and talent scouts and things like that. 959 00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:03,839 Speaker 1: Charles is just dunking and hanging on the rim and 960 00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,040 Speaker 1: everyone's just always looking at his court, like WHOA, what's 961 00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:08,920 Speaker 1: going on over there? And this guy was a freak, 962 00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:12,520 Speaker 1: you know he was. He was basically Zion Williamson, Zion Williams. 963 00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:15,640 Speaker 1: That's who he was. You know. His body and his 964 00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,640 Speaker 1: athleticism didn't make sense. He looked like he was out 965 00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:20,359 Speaker 1: of shape, but he was the fastest and he could 966 00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,520 Speaker 1: jump over the you know at the gym was pretty amazing. 967 00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:26,920 Speaker 1: But when he got down to it, you know, I 968 00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:30,000 Speaker 1: think Charles he was totally focused on just getting in 969 00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:33,120 Speaker 1: the draft, making name for himself and moving on. But 970 00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:36,520 Speaker 1: he came there dominated accomplished his goal. He was a 971 00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:40,320 Speaker 1: top five pick. But I do remember, like so Bobby, 972 00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,360 Speaker 1: there was sixteen of us, and he announced the cuts 973 00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:46,239 Speaker 1: like he like like you know, like like when you 974 00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,400 Speaker 1: see why, you'll like yo. He put the sheet up 975 00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:51,040 Speaker 1: and you know he checking in. But he just did it, 976 00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:53,040 Speaker 1: you know, like the players that made it and the 977 00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:56,719 Speaker 1: other four didn't. I think it was John. I think 978 00:56:56,719 --> 00:57:00,719 Speaker 1: it was Mark Price, Charles, you know, the other guys 979 00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:03,759 Speaker 1: were kind of upset, and damn Charles got up and say, yo, man, 980 00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,600 Speaker 1: good luck to you guys. I'm away of the NBA, 981 00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:11,160 Speaker 1: So I don't think he was so much into the 982 00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:16,640 Speaker 1: whole Olympic experience at that point. So Gold accomplished obviously. 983 00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:18,400 Speaker 1: You know, his career speaks for itself. He wanted to 984 00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:22,840 Speaker 1: playing for two Olympic teams anyway later on miraculously, But yeah, 985 00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:26,800 Speaker 1: I mean that experience again gives you that set long. 986 00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:30,600 Speaker 1: I'm with the best now and I'm competing with them now. 987 00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:32,520 Speaker 1: It's legit, like now I got a chance to like 988 00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,160 Speaker 1: make a career out of this and that team. By 989 00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:39,960 Speaker 1: the way, going back, I think at some point that 990 00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:43,960 Speaker 1: group of players and coaches will be recognized because it 991 00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:48,360 Speaker 1: winds up being the last amateur Olympic gold medal one 992 00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,760 Speaker 1: in basketball. Yeah, I mean that experience and those I mean, 993 00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:54,040 Speaker 1: there's been documented, there's been things. I mean that eighty 994 00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:56,920 Speaker 1: four Los Angeles Olympics was so much was going on 995 00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,600 Speaker 1: and there were so many Olympic stars. Mary lou Retton 996 00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,800 Speaker 1: I fell in love with different podcasts, fell in love 997 00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:07,200 Speaker 1: with her out of my mind, Carl Lewis. I mean, 998 00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:09,440 Speaker 1: it was there were stars, It was you know, you 999 00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:12,520 Speaker 1: guys were a big deal for basketball fans, but basketball 1000 00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:14,440 Speaker 1: as a whole was it wasn't. And then also the 1001 00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:18,120 Speaker 1: coverage where you'd see twenty minutes of gym mostly gymnastics 1002 00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:21,200 Speaker 1: because Mary lou Carl Lewis. Yeah, you see the track 1003 00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:23,480 Speaker 1: and field and that's that's what the Olympic sports with 1004 00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:25,160 Speaker 1: more of those because you didn't see them doing a 1005 00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:28,560 Speaker 1: year basketball. They they show part of our game and 1006 00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:31,040 Speaker 1: then breakaway, you see, but you bring up you bring 1007 00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:32,840 Speaker 1: up Mary Lou Rett and it's funny. So we're in 1008 00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:36,760 Speaker 1: LA was staying we'll talk about my girl on USC campus. Okay, 1009 00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:39,840 Speaker 1: USC campus, and you have to take the buses over 1010 00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:42,360 Speaker 1: to the LA Sports Arena. That's where you had to 1011 00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:45,880 Speaker 1: congregate before you go into the march into the LA 1012 00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:50,440 Speaker 1: Sports Arena. So we're on the bus and this is 1013 00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,120 Speaker 1: you know, day zero, the just haven't started here. We're 1014 00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:56,280 Speaker 1: getting ready for opening ceremonies and the gymnastics team is 1015 00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:58,960 Speaker 1: on our bus and you know, nice little girls and 1016 00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:03,800 Speaker 1: friendly lo and behold, ten days later, the biggest star 1017 00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:07,560 Speaker 1: in the world was on our bus. That was funny, 1018 00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:10,080 Speaker 1: how you see, you know, they were kind of you know, 1019 00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:12,000 Speaker 1: just happened to be on our bus, right, they were 1020 00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:15,280 Speaker 1: hanging whatever. And then ten days later, like yo, she's 1021 00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:17,120 Speaker 1: like the biggest stall in the world. That's crazy, And 1022 00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:18,919 Speaker 1: ten days earlier no one knew who she was. Right, 1023 00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:23,560 Speaker 1: we have a photo Carl Lewis, So we're our whole 1024 00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:25,600 Speaker 1: team's kind of getting ready to walking, and he's hanging 1025 00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:27,560 Speaker 1: with us, trying, you know, just hanging with us. It's 1026 00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:30,600 Speaker 1: but again, that's crazy, hang with us. But ten days 1027 00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:34,360 Speaker 1: later he's way bigger stars than any of us were 1028 00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:39,680 Speaker 1: after those Olympic games. That's cool. Was Bobby Knight the 1029 00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:42,680 Speaker 1: motherfucker as a coach or did you see a human 1030 00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:45,040 Speaker 1: or was it always just remember because like you know, 1031 00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:46,560 Speaker 1: as a kid, I remember I went to the five 1032 00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:48,840 Speaker 1: star basketball game and it was like the guy from 1033 00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:51,240 Speaker 1: Full Metal Jacket walked. It was like and then you'd 1034 00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:53,720 Speaker 1: see him throwing chairs and no person out. I was like, 1035 00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:56,240 Speaker 1: who this guy is scary? You know, he's like the 1036 00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,160 Speaker 1: old school authority figure. When when he was coaching you guys, 1037 01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:03,000 Speaker 1: was there any funny moments? Was there any lighthearted stuff? 1038 01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:05,240 Speaker 1: It is he always liked that, especially when he was 1039 01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:07,960 Speaker 1: younger and time. Yeah, I think what you said, Michael 1040 01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:12,520 Speaker 1: is that reputation was earned and preceded him, But there 1041 01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:14,800 Speaker 1: was a human side to him, and I got to 1042 01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:18,120 Speaker 1: see that because we would spend so much time together. 1043 01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:21,080 Speaker 1: Now he had that coaches at that point in time, 1044 01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:23,600 Speaker 1: that's what they were. What you just said, most coaches 1045 01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:27,720 Speaker 1: now different degrees, and Bobby was like the at the 1046 01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:32,320 Speaker 1: highest level of that disciplinary. Look. He came from Army. 1047 01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:34,600 Speaker 1: He coached at Army, so that was a big part 1048 01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:41,480 Speaker 1: of his life. Was discipline, on time, work hard, no distractions, 1049 01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:44,880 Speaker 1: do what you're told, no questions. Right, That's based on 1050 01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:47,960 Speaker 1: what he was about. But we practiced three times, so 1051 01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:53,840 Speaker 1: there was a huge emphasis on discipline, unselfishness, teamwork, You 1052 01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:56,040 Speaker 1: don't ask quy, you do what you're told. Yes, that 1053 01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:59,160 Speaker 1: was in place in nineteen eighty four. But what I 1054 01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:03,280 Speaker 1: saw from him and he had tremendous respect. We talked 1055 01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:07,720 Speaker 1: about Michael Jordan's right from North Carolina. Dean Smith was 1056 01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:14,680 Speaker 1: his coach, right, Very similar principles, different delivery, right, John Thompson, 1057 01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:21,880 Speaker 1: very similar foundation of beliefs and principles, a little different message, right, 1058 01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:26,400 Speaker 1: lou Carneseca. They all respected each other and they all 1059 01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:30,400 Speaker 1: were teaching the same thing, but their personalities were different. 1060 01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:34,880 Speaker 1: So so the message was the same delivery, Like you said, 1061 01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:37,000 Speaker 1: it might have been with a chair as opposed to 1062 01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:40,240 Speaker 1: you know, a play call. But I saw the human 1063 01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:43,680 Speaker 1: side of Bobby Knight, and what really I always tell 1064 01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:45,720 Speaker 1: people list, Look, he was tough to play for, but 1065 01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:48,760 Speaker 1: I didn't matter. I played for coaches that I took 1066 01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:52,440 Speaker 1: the message and didn't really if you told us to 1067 01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:54,880 Speaker 1: me quietly or yelled at it, it didn't matter. Let 1068 01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:56,400 Speaker 1: me get the message. I know what you want me 1069 01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:59,320 Speaker 1: to do, I'll go do it. But years later, my 1070 01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:02,919 Speaker 1: dad worked that JFK was US customs inspect He worked 1071 01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:05,920 Speaker 1: there for twenty eight years. So back then, obviously pre 1072 01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:08,640 Speaker 1: nine eleven, the airport was you know, open and you 1073 01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:11,040 Speaker 1: kind of floated around and do what you want. After 1074 01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:14,040 Speaker 1: those Olympics, obviously my dad got to know Bobby and 1075 01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:19,360 Speaker 1: when he was flying internationally, whether it be recruiting pleasure trips, 1076 01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:22,080 Speaker 1: when he would be coming through customs, he would look 1077 01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:26,520 Speaker 1: my dad up all the time, even on a commercial flight. 1078 01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:28,640 Speaker 1: My dad would come home, Hey, Bobby Knight, stop buying 1079 01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:31,080 Speaker 1: and say hello, which meant so much to me. So 1080 01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:33,840 Speaker 1: so Bobby to me. And I'm not going to pretend 1081 01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:36,920 Speaker 1: like I know him all that well, I know him 1082 01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:43,240 Speaker 1: pretty well. He did most of his kindness and human 1083 01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:48,320 Speaker 1: kindness things behind the scenes and the stuff we saw. 1084 01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:52,000 Speaker 1: Obviously his coaching was what we saw publicly. So I 1085 01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:58,439 Speaker 1: do believe there's a really cool, kind, harder dude. God. 1086 01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:01,440 Speaker 1: That's that's my personal pick. And it got to me 1087 01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:05,080 Speaker 1: later on, not from coaching. Dude, Hey man came through 1088 01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:09,240 Speaker 1: the airport, took time out, took time out, goes out 1089 01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:29,440 Speaker 1: of my dad, right, I like that. I want to 1090 01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:32,680 Speaker 1: skip to when you got drafted, your first year in 1091 01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:38,360 Speaker 1: the NBA, your first games. What's your oh shit moment 1092 01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:40,480 Speaker 1: I'm in the NBA, Like where you're playing against somebody 1093 01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:43,480 Speaker 1: you watched, you idolized, like you remember being on the 1094 01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:45,520 Speaker 1: court and you're like, you know, when I've talked to 1095 01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:49,000 Speaker 1: basketball players, you know, they always have that moment. I've 1096 01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:51,720 Speaker 1: had it with actors. Well, I'm like, there's I'm we're 1097 01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:56,600 Speaker 1: working together now, Robert de Niro. You know, basketball different 1098 01:03:56,600 --> 01:03:59,400 Speaker 1: because you're competing against each other. What do you remember 1099 01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:02,080 Speaker 1: your rookie season where we're like, oh shit, yeah, my 1100 01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:08,480 Speaker 1: two biggest Doctor Jay and Kareem that my two biggest 1101 01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:14,080 Speaker 1: Like wow, like this is insane. Doctor Jay obviously, you know, 1102 01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:16,760 Speaker 1: ironically he's from New York and Long Island. But to me, 1103 01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:18,920 Speaker 1: like when I think of Doctor Jay, the first thing 1104 01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:20,400 Speaker 1: I think when I was a kid was him in 1105 01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:24,000 Speaker 1: the ABA at the Nassau Coliseum. Like that's some of 1106 01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:28,720 Speaker 1: the nastiest highlights ever, right, basically carrying that league all 1107 01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:33,120 Speaker 1: by himself. So too, I played it against him my 1108 01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:36,000 Speaker 1: rookie year. And back then we all flew commercials, so 1109 01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,200 Speaker 1: a lot of times the teams would obviously stay the night, 1110 01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:40,280 Speaker 1: and a lot of times we'd all go to the 1111 01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:43,080 Speaker 1: same restaurant. I remember going to the place in Hayward, 1112 01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:45,280 Speaker 1: not a fund from where we are right now, Hayward Fishery, 1113 01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:47,200 Speaker 1: where a lot of teams would go because the guy 1114 01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:50,080 Speaker 1: would take care of everyone. And I'm sitting at a 1115 01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:53,840 Speaker 1: big table and doctors, and I found myself just staring 1116 01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:56,120 Speaker 1: at him. He had this glow about him. He was 1117 01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:58,360 Speaker 1: Michael Jordan. He had he had it, man, he just 1118 01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:01,920 Speaker 1: had it. He was beyond a great basketball player. He 1119 01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:06,680 Speaker 1: looked he does. He's got that that glow him. Yes, 1120 01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:09,640 Speaker 1: And imagine when he played with you didn't watch sports 1121 01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:12,160 Speaker 1: and you saw him, you go, he's an act. He's 1122 01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:16,440 Speaker 1: something he's something different. And that's what Doc was and 1123 01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:19,720 Speaker 1: then Kareem. I remember playing at the Forum and it 1124 01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:22,840 Speaker 1: was in game and somehow we were both checking in 1125 01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:26,200 Speaker 1: like say like mid third or something at the scorer's 1126 01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:28,480 Speaker 1: table check him back into the game, and were sitting 1127 01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:32,080 Speaker 1: at the floors and I'm looking like, holy shit, dude, 1128 01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:34,160 Speaker 1: this is the guy. When I was at pow Memorial, 1129 01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:36,840 Speaker 1: every time I walked up to the gym, I saw 1130 01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:40,400 Speaker 1: this guy's jersey hanging there and he's sitting next to me, 1131 01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:43,160 Speaker 1: like this is this is Chris. So those are the 1132 01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:46,840 Speaker 1: fucking goggles and everything. Yeah, just like you know Airplane 1133 01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:48,160 Speaker 1: the movie. I'm like, you know what the hell is 1134 01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:53,360 Speaker 1: going on here? You know this? Yeah? I mean because again, 1135 01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:56,600 Speaker 1: like every time I walked from the locker room to 1136 01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:59,560 Speaker 1: the gym to practice of Power, his jersey was sitting there, 1137 01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:02,720 Speaker 1: like and this was some some mystical figure that had 1138 01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:08,520 Speaker 1: broken every single record at every level of basketball Power UCLA, 1139 01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:12,400 Speaker 1: Milwaukee Bucks and yeah. So those those were the two 1140 01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:17,240 Speaker 1: Magic and Bird, Yes, but in my mind it was 1141 01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:22,919 Speaker 1: Doc and Kareem who gave you the business like where 1142 01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:24,960 Speaker 1: you were like, holy shit when you were in the 1143 01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:26,640 Speaker 1: league those first couple of years, that where you were 1144 01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:30,520 Speaker 1: just like what like obviously the Birds, and but like 1145 01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:33,840 Speaker 1: what was another player that you played against? I mean, 1146 01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:36,080 Speaker 1: you know, I was looking at some of the names 1147 01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:39,560 Speaker 1: that Fat Sleever and Albert Robertson. I mean these like 1148 01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:42,320 Speaker 1: who did you guard or that you were like in 1149 01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:44,520 Speaker 1: those first couple of years that you were like, fuck, 1150 01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:48,600 Speaker 1: this is a problem. Yeah, I mean almost every night 1151 01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:51,440 Speaker 1: there was a problem for me athletically, right, I had 1152 01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:56,520 Speaker 1: to navigate that different level of athleticism, match it with skill, 1153 01:06:57,200 --> 01:07:00,920 Speaker 1: try to figure out how to you know off someone 1154 01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:03,040 Speaker 1: enough where I can get beat off the dribble, you'd 1155 01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:05,080 Speaker 1: also be able to contest. These were things I dealt 1156 01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:08,040 Speaker 1: with pretty much your whole career, but at the NBA 1157 01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:11,600 Speaker 1: it gets magnified by a hundred because now you're talking 1158 01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:17,919 Speaker 1: about the greatest athletes. So defensively was always a tough 1159 01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:21,880 Speaker 1: thing for me, but I could counter that with offense, right, 1160 01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:24,560 Speaker 1: That's what that was my thing, Like, don't get killed 1161 01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:28,280 Speaker 1: on defense, be smart, be conscientious, don't get blown by. 1162 01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:30,400 Speaker 1: But you gotta make them pay it the other end, 1163 01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:32,440 Speaker 1: because I'm going out there getting six points. That's not 1164 01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:38,400 Speaker 1: going to work. But so you know, Michael Cooper, Derek McKee, shit, 1165 01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:43,560 Speaker 1: you know, the Michael Scottie, these long, athletic guys that 1166 01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:49,160 Speaker 1: could guard you off the dribble, run you down off screen, 1167 01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:53,280 Speaker 1: basically shut you down, you know, single handling. It was Cooper, 1168 01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:56,320 Speaker 1: motherfucker Coop Cooper. I remember one time I saw Cooper recently. 1169 01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:59,000 Speaker 1: I told him, I said, man to me, like we 1170 01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:03,120 Speaker 1: always talk about and rightfully, so guys who were active, right, 1171 01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,880 Speaker 1: the Warriors got a bunch, you know, future Hall of famers, 1172 01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:09,760 Speaker 1: which is cool. But there's also a guy a lot 1173 01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:11,920 Speaker 1: of guys that are left off so to meet is 1174 01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:14,640 Speaker 1: like Cooper, Like they was started putting guys in for 1175 01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:18,559 Speaker 1: defense and for team success, right, That's which is cool. 1176 01:08:19,080 --> 01:08:21,360 Speaker 1: He's got to be in there. He's one of those guys. 1177 01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:24,599 Speaker 1: He was doing the chase down block like Lebron does. 1178 01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:27,320 Speaker 1: That was one of his things. He was shooting threes. 1179 01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:31,200 Speaker 1: He was a six man and nasty. So I remember 1180 01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:33,800 Speaker 1: one time I played it was a rookie. I stole it. 1181 01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:35,160 Speaker 1: I'm like kind of like, yeah, I'm gonna let me 1182 01:08:35,160 --> 01:08:37,280 Speaker 1: go down dunk this thing. You know, didn't really go 1183 01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:40,519 Speaker 1: after it. He pinned my ship to the glass. Man, like, man, 1184 01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:45,880 Speaker 1: get that shit out of here. So the athleticism the 1185 01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:49,120 Speaker 1: ability to play individual defense, and then the competitive spirit. Man. 1186 01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:53,520 Speaker 1: You know, so guys like that I mentioned Derek mckeetie's 1187 01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:55,519 Speaker 1: guys who were all of a sudden, You've seen guys 1188 01:08:55,520 --> 01:09:01,480 Speaker 1: with six nine six ten who in college we're playing centers. 1189 01:09:01,960 --> 01:09:05,479 Speaker 1: Now they're actually switching on the perimeter and locking your 1190 01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:08,519 Speaker 1: ass down. Now you gotta like go back to the 1191 01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:12,080 Speaker 1: drawing board, like, man, I gotta ninety more screens. I 1192 01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:15,320 Speaker 1: gotta get these guys off me. When did your lack 1193 01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:18,800 Speaker 1: of speed, your lack of foot speed become something you 1194 01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:20,919 Speaker 1: were very aware of that you knew you had to counteract. 1195 01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:23,120 Speaker 1: Were you always aware of it? Now? I was again 1196 01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:27,080 Speaker 1: going back to my um grade school coach. He always 1197 01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:29,880 Speaker 1: he talked to me about that as being a fact, 1198 01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:34,320 Speaker 1: but not necessarily liability, but being aware of it. And 1199 01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:37,439 Speaker 1: it also came down to anticipation. Did you try to 1200 01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:40,240 Speaker 1: fight it though, like I'm gonna make myself faster? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 1201 01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:42,400 Speaker 1: I always worked on it. I did a lot of 1202 01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:47,120 Speaker 1: training to just get just a nano second better, just 1203 01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:51,000 Speaker 1: a little bit, and staying in shape, being being more fit, yes, 1204 01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:54,000 Speaker 1: you know, especially on the off running more. You know 1205 01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:56,240 Speaker 1: what I mean when I played. I was really conscious 1206 01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:59,960 Speaker 1: of never standing still. You were conscious of never standing STI, 1207 01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:03,120 Speaker 1: no doubt, just trying to wear that person down mentally 1208 01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:06,559 Speaker 1: and physically to where at some point you would spring 1209 01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:09,519 Speaker 1: yourself open. It might not happen right away, it might 1210 01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:12,080 Speaker 1: not happen as much as you wanted to. But if 1211 01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:14,599 Speaker 1: you keep doing it and you gain their reputation, that 1212 01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:18,240 Speaker 1: becomes a skill that myself is a skill. Steph Curry. 1213 01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:22,200 Speaker 1: One of his skills is his endurance, his stamina, and 1214 01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:26,080 Speaker 1: the pressure he puts on his opponent physically and mentally 1215 01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:30,360 Speaker 1: to be locked in every second that you're playing against him. Right, 1216 01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:35,480 Speaker 1: So I was aware of it. I worked to compensate 1217 01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:39,759 Speaker 1: for that. The flip side is the fact that an offense, 1218 01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:43,719 Speaker 1: it's actually your strength. Being slower on offense is actually 1219 01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:48,800 Speaker 1: a big time strength, big time weakness on defense. But again, 1220 01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:52,040 Speaker 1: to counter both, you figure it out. Talk to me 1221 01:10:52,120 --> 01:10:57,400 Speaker 1: about the Boston Garden, the Boston Celtics and Larry Bird 1222 01:10:57,640 --> 01:11:00,240 Speaker 1: at that time. The Boston Garden. You know, there's all 1223 01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:05,280 Speaker 1: these myths, facts, fakes. There's ghosts. They didn't have a 1224 01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:08,240 Speaker 1: hot water, they didn't have cold water. There's the air conditioning. 1225 01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:10,559 Speaker 1: They don't have an air conditioning talk to him about 1226 01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:13,720 Speaker 1: playing in there and what Larry Bird meant to you 1227 01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:17,080 Speaker 1: as somebody who came before you, and what his game 1228 01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:20,000 Speaker 1: was like when you're actually on the court with him. Yeah. 1229 01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:24,559 Speaker 1: So Larry and Magic obviously played in that nineteen seventy 1230 01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:27,200 Speaker 1: nine final and CLA final. I think till this day 1231 01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:29,200 Speaker 1: the most watched college basketball gun. So they had a 1232 01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:33,839 Speaker 1: huge impact on college basketball and the way it's viewed. 1233 01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:37,439 Speaker 1: And you know the impact of their their greatness and 1234 01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:43,840 Speaker 1: how the players were introduced as individual stars at that 1235 01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:45,920 Speaker 1: point in time. That's what David Stern wind up doing 1236 01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:51,200 Speaker 1: in the NBA, promoting individuals as opposed to teams. Worked magically. 1237 01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:54,960 Speaker 1: But Bird again, you know, you try and emulate someone 1238 01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:57,320 Speaker 1: like you. Yeah, I wish I could have been Doctor j. 1239 01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:00,160 Speaker 1: That wouldn't have happened it, you know, So I was 1240 01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:05,200 Speaker 1: told to watch John havelcheck Larry Bird. Your magic to 1241 01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:09,400 Speaker 1: a degree was his passing. He wasn't fast, right, guys 1242 01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:12,080 Speaker 1: that were playing, you know, more like what I was 1243 01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:15,360 Speaker 1: capable of doing. But Larry Bird, you know, they said 1244 01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:17,439 Speaker 1: he was slow, couldn't jump. You know, there was a 1245 01:12:17,479 --> 01:12:21,600 Speaker 1: lot of similarities there. So watching him again, you know, 1246 01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:28,640 Speaker 1: before social media, Um the coacham Arkansas. What's his name, Um, 1247 01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:31,880 Speaker 1: Nolan Richardson. Nolan Richardson, great, great coache, one of the great. 1248 01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:37,160 Speaker 1: So so anyway, the legend was again before social media. 1249 01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:39,880 Speaker 1: You heard about this guy from French Lick and State 1250 01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:44,080 Speaker 1: the twenty nine and oh like magic and Larry had 1251 01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:46,599 Speaker 1: that probably as big an impact as anybody on the 1252 01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:50,559 Speaker 1: transition of the NBA. But it started in that nineteen 1253 01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:54,000 Speaker 1: seventy nine final game. Yeah, so I watched him, try 1254 01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:58,080 Speaker 1: to emulate him, heard about his work, ethic, things like that, 1255 01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:01,639 Speaker 1: you know. So and then when we played against him, 1256 01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:06,559 Speaker 1: you talked about the Boston Garden. It was as far 1257 01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:11,479 Speaker 1: as aesthetically and the actual building was a shipole. But 1258 01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:14,559 Speaker 1: it was a museum, dude. It was a museum. It 1259 01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:18,040 Speaker 1: was It didn't matter that there was the floor had 1260 01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:21,040 Speaker 1: dead spots. That was it. Man, It's the Boston Garden. 1261 01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:24,320 Speaker 1: I had played there in college. We played Boston College 1262 01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:29,880 Speaker 1: there a few times. So, yeah, the banners, the history, 1263 01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:35,960 Speaker 1: Bill Russell read all back, John Haletcheck, you know, all 1264 01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:39,519 Speaker 1: the greats played there was you know, a staple you 1265 01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:43,040 Speaker 1: know of the NBA. So it was a museum. So 1266 01:13:43,080 --> 01:13:45,040 Speaker 1: it didn't matter all else, it didn't matter, but it 1267 01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:47,559 Speaker 1: was true. There were dead spots in the floor. It 1268 01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:50,280 Speaker 1: was really cool because the Boston Bruins played the night before. 1269 01:13:51,280 --> 01:13:56,320 Speaker 1: There was two showers, only one work. You know, that's 1270 01:13:56,360 --> 01:13:57,920 Speaker 1: all true. But the lake is I think it was 1271 01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:02,519 Speaker 1: like nineteen eighty four or five or six. It's like 1272 01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:05,920 Speaker 1: one hundred and thirteen degrees in there, right, So that's 1273 01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:10,840 Speaker 1: all true, but it's still it's the Boston Garden. You know, 1274 01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:14,320 Speaker 1: we got we went to play there. We went to 1275 01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:17,599 Speaker 1: play there. U probably like nineteen eighty eight or eighty nine, 1276 01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:21,040 Speaker 1: Mitch Richmond's rookie year. We go in there, we have 1277 01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:23,200 Speaker 1: a day off, we're practicing, and we're you know, looking 1278 01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:27,200 Speaker 1: all the banners. You know, everyone's up there, and there's 1279 01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:32,280 Speaker 1: a number nineteen. There's no names, just numbers, right, So like, yo, Mitch, 1280 01:14:32,360 --> 01:14:37,280 Speaker 1: look number nineteen. You know, he's like, who's that? I 1281 01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:39,720 Speaker 1: saw a coach man? That's Nellie Man. Every time he 1282 01:14:39,760 --> 01:14:45,280 Speaker 1: goes Nellie played. That's miss even know you played. That's 1283 01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:50,040 Speaker 1: fucking funny. That is funny. Might be why Nelly traded him, 1284 01:14:51,160 --> 01:14:54,800 Speaker 1: that was it, that was to break them. That's funny. Yeah, 1285 01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:57,519 Speaker 1: all right, I'm gonna jump into Dream Team because we 1286 01:14:57,560 --> 01:14:59,600 Speaker 1: can't talk. I'm gonna end. There's so much shit I 1287 01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:01,680 Speaker 1: could talk. We'll pick up in New York Man. We'll 1288 01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:05,120 Speaker 1: give a part two, but the Dream Team. Yeah, give 1289 01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:08,360 Speaker 1: me something. It's been talked about, books, documentaries, on time. 1290 01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:11,240 Speaker 1: What was that like? Give me a story that's never 1291 01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:15,360 Speaker 1: been told. Those games? Were they as competitive as they said? Like? 1292 01:15:15,479 --> 01:15:17,479 Speaker 1: What was the climate like playing in that game? In 1293 01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:20,920 Speaker 1: those games and that team? Well, I said earlier, right right? 1294 01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:24,120 Speaker 1: So I said earlier, like in nineteen eighty four. You know, 1295 01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:26,439 Speaker 1: at that point in time, it's the only time you 1296 01:15:26,479 --> 01:15:28,640 Speaker 1: get a chance to play an Olympics. So it was 1297 01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:31,880 Speaker 1: the pressure to make that team. Who would have thought 1298 01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:38,599 Speaker 1: eight years later, it's opened up to pros and miraculously timing, 1299 01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:40,800 Speaker 1: which we have no control over. I'm playing at a 1300 01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:45,519 Speaker 1: really high level, so that that alone was miraculous. The 1301 01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:47,400 Speaker 1: selection of the team. Like I said, at that point 1302 01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:48,840 Speaker 1: in time, I was playing a really high level for 1303 01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:50,920 Speaker 1: a few years in a row. The international game was 1304 01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:53,400 Speaker 1: still a little different than the NBA, so it was 1305 01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:58,559 Speaker 1: a little more specific player that you needed internationally. Now 1306 01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:00,760 Speaker 1: the game is almost identical, but back then it was 1307 01:16:00,800 --> 01:16:05,719 Speaker 1: still you know, a different type of style. So obviously 1308 01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:10,320 Speaker 1: the selection of the team happens for me the biggest 1309 01:16:10,360 --> 01:16:12,680 Speaker 1: moment for me in my NBA career because of all 1310 01:16:12,680 --> 01:16:14,880 Speaker 1: those things and things that had been through the fourth 1311 01:16:14,920 --> 01:16:17,439 Speaker 1: back to get playing at a high level, and then 1312 01:16:17,479 --> 01:16:23,120 Speaker 1: this magical thing happens where FIBA and the NBA declares 1313 01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:25,439 Speaker 1: NBA players are eligible. So as far as you know, 1314 01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:28,320 Speaker 1: we all know who's on that team. Incredible, all the 1315 01:16:28,439 --> 01:16:31,639 Speaker 1: legends of the game a lot. We just talked about Magic, Bird, 1316 01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:36,280 Speaker 1: Jordan Ewing, Robinson, Barkley, and now you've grown up with 1317 01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:37,880 Speaker 1: these guys in a way, yeah a lot. Yeah, well, 1318 01:16:37,920 --> 01:16:40,679 Speaker 1: you know, to live Magic and Bird are the elder 1319 01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:45,240 Speaker 1: statesman guys we all looked up to, right, Patrick and 1320 01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:47,719 Speaker 1: Michael I had played on eighty four together, so where 1321 01:16:47,720 --> 01:16:51,680 Speaker 1: we reunited for that team and then played against you know, 1322 01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:56,680 Speaker 1: Carl and John, David Clyde, all these other guys are 1323 01:16:56,680 --> 01:17:00,839 Speaker 1: all peers who we competed against. But to to spend 1324 01:17:00,840 --> 01:17:05,439 Speaker 1: that summer together with the group of those guys, to 1325 01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:08,080 Speaker 1: get to know them away from the court, because you know, 1326 01:17:08,120 --> 01:17:10,920 Speaker 1: we spent a lot of time obviously together, not just 1327 01:17:11,000 --> 01:17:16,000 Speaker 1: because you know, the time frame, but also being in 1328 01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:18,960 Speaker 1: the hotel not so much secluded, but you know, you 1329 01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:21,280 Speaker 1: had a We just hung together a lot. You know, 1330 01:17:21,320 --> 01:17:24,080 Speaker 1: there wasn't a whole lot guys were going out and 1331 01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:26,880 Speaker 1: doing their thing, but our families were there, We had 1332 01:17:26,920 --> 01:17:31,720 Speaker 1: our kids. It was really a really cool time. Everybody 1333 01:17:31,800 --> 01:17:36,000 Speaker 1: was really secure and who they were, their careers were established. 1334 01:17:36,040 --> 01:17:39,439 Speaker 1: No one was trying to build a brand. It was 1335 01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:42,320 Speaker 1: just a team and that was the coolest thing to me. 1336 01:17:42,439 --> 01:17:47,000 Speaker 1: The coolest thing was we became a team like that 1337 01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:50,519 Speaker 1: and part of that. The reason for that was everyone 1338 01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:55,240 Speaker 1: understood their their role and when it was very secure 1339 01:17:55,280 --> 01:17:58,840 Speaker 1: and come to who they were and just go out 1340 01:17:58,840 --> 01:18:01,439 Speaker 1: there and do your things. Sounds simple. Didn't always happen. 1341 01:18:01,479 --> 01:18:03,519 Speaker 1: We've seen other teams not to be able to do that. 1342 01:18:04,439 --> 01:18:07,919 Speaker 1: But the character that the awareness of all those players 1343 01:18:08,439 --> 01:18:10,880 Speaker 1: was really cool to play with and to be around, 1344 01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:16,240 Speaker 1: even socially right, we made lifelong friendships. But as far 1345 01:18:16,280 --> 01:18:18,640 Speaker 1: as like competitively, I remember we had a report to 1346 01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:21,799 Speaker 1: San Diego that was our first report for training camp. 1347 01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:26,479 Speaker 1: First session, everyone's kind of on eggshells getting out of 1348 01:18:26,479 --> 01:18:29,200 Speaker 1: each other's way. I remember the magic kicked the ball 1349 01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:31,679 Speaker 1: up in the stands and say, Yo, this is fucking bullshit, dude, 1350 01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:35,639 Speaker 1: We're fucking bullshit. Like you know, you talk about leadership 1351 01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:39,280 Speaker 1: and awareness, like, let's fucking you know, everyone fucking play now. 1352 01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:43,360 Speaker 1: Don't be worried about what Everyone do their thing, right. 1353 01:18:43,400 --> 01:18:46,519 Speaker 1: So I was like practice one. Then we had a 1354 01:18:46,520 --> 01:18:48,840 Speaker 1: few good practices and we had the legendary scrimmage with 1355 01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:52,720 Speaker 1: those young fellas Chris Webber, Grant Hill, Bobby Hurley, all 1356 01:18:52,760 --> 01:18:55,479 Speaker 1: those guys, and they beat us in that scrimmage. What 1357 01:18:55,520 --> 01:19:00,439 Speaker 1: the fuck I mean you watched the documentary. I wasn't 1358 01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:01,920 Speaker 1: even aware of at the time, not that it mat 1359 01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:04,160 Speaker 1: at that time, but look, you're talking about first of all, 1360 01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:07,599 Speaker 1: they were all talented. They were, yes, and they were kids, right, 1361 01:19:07,720 --> 01:19:09,880 Speaker 1: but they were talented that those guys wound up all 1362 01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:13,360 Speaker 1: being stars, so they're right there. Of course, they're obviously 1363 01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:17,479 Speaker 1: a little hungrier, right right, all that stuff, Um, so 1364 01:19:17,840 --> 01:19:21,559 Speaker 1: give them their credit, right, they did their thing. Lo 1365 01:19:21,640 --> 01:19:24,360 Speaker 1: and behold, Michael did not play. You know at the 1366 01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:27,360 Speaker 1: in the moment, didn't really realize that. You know, in 1367 01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:29,599 Speaker 1: the documentary, Coach K made that very clear that Chuck 1368 01:19:29,680 --> 01:19:32,280 Speaker 1: daily knew exactly what he was doing. And the next 1369 01:19:32,320 --> 01:19:35,920 Speaker 1: day we beat him by fifty. But again, you know, 1370 01:19:36,439 --> 01:19:37,840 Speaker 1: I think you got to give them their credit there, 1371 01:19:37,960 --> 01:19:39,960 Speaker 1: and a lot of those guys, you know, went on 1372 01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:43,760 Speaker 1: to have some more amazing careers, so that that was cool. 1373 01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:46,640 Speaker 1: We had to go to Portland play that qualify. We 1374 01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:48,400 Speaker 1: had to qualify for the limits by the way, right 1375 01:19:48,520 --> 01:19:51,599 Speaker 1: because we lost an eighty eight. Go to Portland, knocked 1376 01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:54,519 Speaker 1: those games out, take a little break. Then we were 1377 01:19:54,520 --> 01:19:59,400 Speaker 1: flying from from New York to Nice, Yes to uh 1378 01:19:59,560 --> 01:20:02,000 Speaker 1: what we call with Monico, I have a little training 1379 01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:05,040 Speaker 1: camp theory. So we're there for a few days practice 1380 01:20:05,080 --> 01:20:09,600 Speaker 1: and stuff. We played the French national team had a 1381 01:20:09,640 --> 01:20:13,880 Speaker 1: subpart performance again you know, guy's in casinos whatever you know, 1382 01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:17,519 Speaker 1: with blah blah blah. And then Chuck Daly, who was 1383 01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:20,160 Speaker 1: just one of the nicest guys I ever met, you know, 1384 01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:24,400 Speaker 1: blue collar, had that charisma, you know, like your uncle, 1385 01:20:24,439 --> 01:20:28,639 Speaker 1: but also like you know the chief, great good dude man, 1386 01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:32,120 Speaker 1: good dude's shop. Just just a really cool guy, perfect 1387 01:20:32,120 --> 01:20:35,320 Speaker 1: guy for that job. You know. Senses were kind of 1388 01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:38,160 Speaker 1: like not ready maybe, so it calls a practice in 1389 01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:43,559 Speaker 1: the morning after everyone's been out or whatever, and instead 1390 01:20:43,600 --> 01:20:46,160 Speaker 1: of practicing, just divides the team up like once you 1391 01:20:46,240 --> 01:20:51,680 Speaker 1: get that edge going. So, you know, Michael, I think 1392 01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:54,799 Speaker 1: I was with Michael and he splits Michael and Magic 1393 01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:58,479 Speaker 1: and whatever. I don't know exactly what the teams were, 1394 01:20:59,040 --> 01:21:03,000 Speaker 1: but now Michael and Magic going at it like verbally, 1395 01:21:03,360 --> 01:21:08,640 Speaker 1: physically and really getting after it. So that was, you know, 1396 01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:13,080 Speaker 1: one of the coolest closed gyms I've ever been in 1397 01:21:13,160 --> 01:21:16,960 Speaker 1: my life, really, and you had call going against Charles, 1398 01:21:18,360 --> 01:21:23,280 Speaker 1: Michael versus Magic, all these different David and Patrick and 1399 01:21:23,360 --> 01:21:26,280 Speaker 1: what about you? Who were you? Chis probably with Scottie. 1400 01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:29,760 Speaker 1: I was probably matter with Scott I would think, you know, 1401 01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:33,400 Speaker 1: but what dominated was Michael and Magic that dominated the gym. 1402 01:21:33,760 --> 01:21:40,599 Speaker 1: And right before it got to be too much, Chuck Delly, 1403 01:21:41,320 --> 01:21:43,559 Speaker 1: we got it now we're ready, just got that that 1404 01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:50,080 Speaker 1: edge going. But all through that summer, Michael was, you know, 1405 01:21:50,120 --> 01:21:52,240 Speaker 1: he's the best player in the world by far. He 1406 01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:55,880 Speaker 1: just was you know, Magic was the best player in 1407 01:21:55,920 --> 01:21:59,280 Speaker 1: the world right and was still really good and was 1408 01:21:59,360 --> 01:22:04,640 Speaker 1: not just gonna hand that mantled to Michael. You know, 1409 01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:07,840 Speaker 1: he made he made Michael take it from him, which 1410 01:22:07,840 --> 01:22:10,360 Speaker 1: he did, uh huh. You know, I remember a few times, 1411 01:22:11,000 --> 01:22:13,280 Speaker 1: you know, Larry at that point in time, his back 1412 01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:15,559 Speaker 1: was bothered, and you know he's playing sparingly but you know, 1413 01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:18,960 Speaker 1: still really good. You know, he's sit out some practices 1414 01:22:19,320 --> 01:22:22,000 Speaker 1: and then you know if Michael and Magic going out, 1415 01:22:22,040 --> 01:22:23,879 Speaker 1: I look over Larry and he's kind of like shakings, 1416 01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:27,040 Speaker 1: like no, no, no, it's over, dude. He's the man, 1417 01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:30,920 Speaker 1: like he got it. It's over. Yeah. So it was 1418 01:22:30,960 --> 01:22:34,280 Speaker 1: pretty cool seeing that. But again it was used in 1419 01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:38,439 Speaker 1: a constructive matter. It wasn't it didn't get too far. No, 1420 01:22:38,640 --> 01:22:42,160 Speaker 1: it was strictly out of respect and admiration, and it 1421 01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:46,200 Speaker 1: actually you know, made the team better. All right, that's it, Molly. 1422 01:22:46,800 --> 01:22:49,840 Speaker 1: We talked hour and fifteen minutes. I could go on 1423 01:22:49,880 --> 01:22:51,360 Speaker 1: and on and on. I mean, there's people are gonna 1424 01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:54,160 Speaker 1: be like, why didn't jazz this whnz New York don't 1425 01:22:54,160 --> 01:22:55,920 Speaker 1: do in New York? How much fucking how much can 1426 01:22:55,960 --> 01:22:59,639 Speaker 1: I do? To hour and fifteen minutes? Okay? Tired? Got 1427 01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:02,640 Speaker 1: pickle ball to play. We got a show to night 1428 01:23:02,680 --> 01:23:05,040 Speaker 1: to see that shows. You got pick a ball tournaments, 1429 01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:08,920 Speaker 1: he got games, got naps. Chris Mullen, I am rapp 1430 01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:11,879 Speaker 1: ports stereo podcats. I appreciate it, my pleasure, Mike anytime. 1431 01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:23,320 Speaker 1: Thank you, Chris, Mullin for joining me on the podcats. 1432 01:23:23,320 --> 01:23:24,800 Speaker 1: You heard him, he said in New York Will Due 1433 01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:29,000 Speaker 1: Part two. That was the one thousandth episode of The 1434 01:23:29,040 --> 01:23:31,599 Speaker 1: Iron rapp Reports Stereo Podcasts. Tell a friend to tell 1435 01:23:31,680 --> 01:23:35,280 Speaker 1: a friend about the world's most disruptive podcast, the Iron 1436 01:23:35,360 --> 01:23:39,400 Speaker 1: Rappaport Stereo Podcast. We started the way we ended, We 1437 01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:41,280 Speaker 1: ended the way we started. Miles Join a k. The 1438 01:23:41,280 --> 01:23:43,680 Speaker 1: Bleach Brothers aka the Dust Brothers. Take me out here 1439 01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:47,000 Speaker 1: with something real nights, yes, Take me out here with 1440 01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:49,759 Speaker 1: something real loud, yes, But most importantly, end this puppy 1441 01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:55,000 Speaker 1: with something real funky. I am Rappaport Stereo Podcast. One 1442 01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:58,599 Speaker 1: thousand in the can. Here's to the next one thousand 1443 01:23:58,880 --> 01:23:59,160 Speaker 1: out