1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to welcome our Bloomberg Television and Bloomberg 3 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:15,319 Speaker 2: Radio audiences to Michigan Central Station here in Detroit. I'm 4 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 2: sitting down with Jim Farley, the CEO of Ford, as 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 2: well as Laurent Meckis, who runs the Red Bull Racing team. 6 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 3: It's a pleasure, gentlemen. 7 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 2: I'm very excited as a fan of the brand and 8 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 2: the league. And let me start Laurent with you, because 9 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,279 Speaker 2: you've said that this is the steepest hill f one 10 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 2: has ever had to climb. New regulations this year are sweeping. 11 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 2: It's not just a tweak here and there. And you're 12 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 2: starting with the brand new partner with Ford, who is 13 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 2: going to build the engine with you as a collaboration. 14 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 2: Why choose Ford as a partner? 15 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 4: You know, first, you're right, you know it's the biggest 16 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 4: regulation pope in the Heast twel one, at least in 17 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:01,279 Speaker 4: the modern heastorield phone on one. It's also on that 18 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 4: very same year that we chose the let me say 19 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 4: crazy challenge to to go and build our mpoion it 20 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 4: and if you. 21 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: Do that, you want to part with the best. 22 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 4: And we are in a lucky positions where we we 23 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 4: have managed to strike these strategic technical partnership with Ford 24 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 4: in this crazy advantage of building from absolutely zero our 25 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 4: own POI in. 26 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: It, and we go together and these in these new regulations. 27 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 2: Jim, for you, this must be exciting because you've built 28 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: honestly a new legacy for Ford in terms of racing. 29 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 2: I mean, on the one hand, you've got the new 30 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 2: industrialized America here. On the other hand, you're going back 31 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 2: to Lamont with a hypercar in a couple of years. 32 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 3: You're essentially doing DFV two point zero. 33 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: Right, This is like the cause worth of old. 34 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 2: Why do you when you're talking to Bill Ford, when 35 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 2: you're talking to shareholders, how do you justify this, this 36 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 2: spend and this you know drive to go racing? 37 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 3: Well, a couple of things. 38 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 5: First of all, the tech transfer, this sport that Laurent leads, 39 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 5: this team that Laurent leads, you know, leader and aerodynamics, 40 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 5: predictive failure components and software control of the hybrid system, 41 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 5: high dis charge batteries. These are all core capabilities that 42 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 5: we need for the next five to ten years as 43 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 5: a company. So the tech transfer is very relevant for us. 44 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 5: Like maybe four valves or overhead cams were in the sixties, 45 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 5: you know, but the tech transfer is totally different today. 46 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 5: Formula one is a complete digital sport and that's where 47 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 5: we're going as a company. 48 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 3: Number one. Number two is, you know, racing, especially in the. 49 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 5: Off roll world, gives us credibility for customers that the 50 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 5: product they buy has real capability that's been tested in 51 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 5: a way that a brand who doesn't race can't say. 52 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 5: And that's what portion Ferrari knew for a long time. 53 00:02:58,120 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 5: Especially for us in the off. 54 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 3: Road world, this is really important. 55 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 5: Racing is a fundamental part of our company's business because 56 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 5: to beat all the great off road brands and to 57 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 5: establish ourselves now we're two ex cheep sales in the US, 58 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 5: to keep that going and keep growing the off road brand, 59 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 5: off road racing into car Baha is where our customers 60 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 5: will say, hey, that forward has the real deal. 61 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 3: It's the real deal, it's not a poser product. 62 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 5: So racing is integral into our credibility as a company. 63 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 2: And you've obviously got a deep, rich history there and 64 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 2: you're bringing your software and battery technology those capabilities to 65 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 2: red Bull racing. But for you, Laurn, this is a 66 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 2: whole new thing right building the engine. I know you're 67 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 2: getting a lot of help from Florida. What are they 68 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 2: helping you with on the fuel side? 69 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 4: That helping us on many different topics, and at least 70 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 4: the Flipp's easy is expanding every day. 71 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: But let me give you a couple of practical examples. 72 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 4: Gym's team have unique advanced manufacturing capabilities that we use 73 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 4: to produce some of the most critical parts of our engine. 74 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 4: And not only the able to manufacture this pass for us, 75 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 4: but also they do it in less time than we 76 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 4: will do otherwise, and that gives us a crucial You know, 77 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 4: our businesses is the time to market business. We could 78 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 4: it a time to raise business. And when we're able 79 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 4: to manufacture complex components in a short amount of time 80 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 4: at this incredible level of quality that we are looking for, 81 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 4: that's a key competit competitive advantage, especially. 82 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 2: Since I think you've said you gave up some time 83 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 2: focused on last year's car, so you're in a hurry 84 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 2: to make sure that this year, this new car, when 85 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 2: Max gets in it in Bahrain right, that it's a 86 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 2: winner and not a learning moment. How do you make 87 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 2: sure that you're winning straight out. 88 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: Of the game. You know you will have to be 89 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: with us a little bit. The sky scale of the 90 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: challenge is monumental. 91 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 4: We are starting, we have started to design and build 92 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 4: these engines in what was a field. 93 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: You know. 94 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 4: We we've made the factory, We've bought the dino, We've 95 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 4: We've put together an unbelievable group of people and group 96 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 4: of partners such as GIM. 97 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: And Tys team. 98 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 4: And it will be foolish a knife to think that 99 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 4: from the first day you are going to be at 100 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 4: the same level than people that have been doing it 101 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 4: for nine years. 102 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: So bear with us. 103 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 4: It will It will give us a few sleepless nights, 104 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 4: it will give us a few heads. We feel we 105 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,239 Speaker 4: have the right people, the right tools, the right spirit 106 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 4: across what red Bull means and what Ford means. Will 107 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 4: eventually come out off top, but the first few months 108 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 4: will certainly be full of learnings. 109 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 2: Jim, what can you bring back from this I guess 110 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 2: laboratory if you will, to the forward customer here in America, 111 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 2: because yesterday we saw figures from the Bureau of Labor 112 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 2: and Statistics that showed prices for the average passenger car 113 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 2: not forward. But you know, across the industry are up 114 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 2: more than five hundred dollars. Prices for the average truck 115 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 2: across the industry are up more than one thousand dollars. 116 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 3: What can you bring back. 117 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 2: That you know puts value into those price. 118 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 6: Increases, Well, Matt, I think Lauren said it really well. 119 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 6: If there was an initial premise of what those transfer 120 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 6: technologies would be to help the company. But what we're 121 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 6: learning working with him over the last several years is 122 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 6: actually that list is growing and it's more diverse than 123 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 6: we thought. Of course, we thought it was arrow and 124 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 6: high discharge batteries. 125 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 3: For performance hybrids. 126 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 5: Well, now it turns out performance hybrids are really important 127 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 5: for the company. Twenty f one fifty is now hybrid sales. 128 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 5: People are buying it because of pro power on board, 129 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 5: not just because of efficiency. And every day, honestly, the 130 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 5: list of things that we can take from the effort 131 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 5: with or on his team, because the sport is so 132 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 5: hard and the time pressure is so high, that list 133 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 5: is getting longer every day. I could give you a 134 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 5: long list, and most of the value that we're seeing 135 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 5: on the tech transfer side are things that we didn't 136 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 5: even have on the list when we started four years ago. 137 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 5: It's a long list but I would say that the 138 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 5: real signature is for me is really the software, the 139 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 5: control software for the hybrid system predictive failure components. These 140 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 5: are the essence of the new software defined vehicle globally 141 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 5: to beat China, and they are really good. We need 142 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 5: these capabilities from Formula one and we can put them 143 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 5: right into transit van. He can help us with the 144 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 5: language models and the logic of predictive failure for a 145 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 5: component on a Formula one race, where you can use 146 00:07:55,480 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 5: that same know how hopefully to help our customers in 147 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 5: a transit know that something's going to break way before 148 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 5: it breaks. 149 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 3: And that's the same capability he has to deliver Firmax. 150 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 5: This is really the cool part of Formula one. It 151 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 5: is such a high pressure, high tech sport that actually 152 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 5: the list of value, like lubrication, it's just gonna. 153 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 3: Keep getting longer. 154 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 2: Laurent the President of the United States, was with Jim 155 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 2: a couple of days ago here touring their plants. As 156 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 2: the US turns more inward, it's interesting that you're participating 157 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 2: in this sort of global sport, right. We just learned 158 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 2: of new visa restrictions on people from many nations, including Brazil, 159 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 2: do you find it harder to get people in to Miami, 160 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 2: to Las Vegas to Austin. I know there have been 161 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 2: problems already holding up gear at the border. 162 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 1: Really, you know, it's not an issue today. 163 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 4: We are global spot as you have said, we are 164 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 4: enjoying racing in pretty much every part of the world, 165 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 4: on nearly every part of the world. 166 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: We have incredible. 167 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,839 Speaker 4: Logistic capabilities, which is also some things that we have 168 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 4: brunstorming and exchanging with with with Jim and his steam 169 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 4: and and these teams together with the help of Formula one, 170 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 4: makes it very, very smooth to go wrong. And we 171 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 4: were back to back races from the US to the 172 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 4: opposite side of the globe without without any issue. So 173 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 4: you know, uh, it's it's a privilege of the sports 174 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 4: have as a global sport to be able to move 175 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 4: around very freely. 176 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 2: Jim, how are your discussions with President Trump? I know 177 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 2: that you have pointed out in the past that the 178 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 2: tariffs as they're set up now, as they're designed to 179 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 2: put you at a disadvantage to somebody, even an American 180 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 2: auto manufacturer that produces in South. 181 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: Korea or Japan. 182 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 2: For sure, I know you're going to meet with jameson 183 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 2: Greer tomorrow in the great state of Ohio. 184 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 3: Have you had a chance to talking to the President. 185 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 2: Have you made any progress in getting many carve. 186 00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 3: Outs or really encouraged. 187 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 5: I mean, look, Ford is the most American car company. 188 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 5: We produce the most, most hourly workers, we export the most, 189 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 5: and so the administration has been great to work with. 190 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 5: They always answer the phone. But there is a long 191 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 5: list of things we got to work through. I think 192 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 5: we've made progress on mitigating some of the tariffs, but 193 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 5: we have more work to do. For US, we have 194 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 5: a high exposure aluminum, for example. The EPA changes are 195 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 5: really welcome, frankly, and we're seeing that play out really 196 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 5: in our business. Part of the reasons why our valuation 197 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 5: is increasing is because people understand we can build more 198 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 5: profitable vehicles now and that's more employment in the US. 199 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 3: But there's a long list. 200 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 5: We got the USMCA coming up, very important negotiation for Ford. 201 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:49,359 Speaker 3: We need to change USMCA. But we built our entire vehicle. 202 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 5: Business as an industry between Canada and Mexico and the US. 203 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 3: We have to get this revised, but it will be 204 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:56,479 Speaker 3: very important. 205 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 5: I think continue to work with administration tariffs, How we 206 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 5: handle the China. You know, if you look at what's 207 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 5: happening in Europe right now in the UK, the Chinese 208 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 5: are now quickly almost ten percent of the marketplace, and 209 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 5: electric cars even higher. They pose a lot of threat 210 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 5: to labor locally. They have huge subsidies from the government 211 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 5: that they're exporting. As a country, we need to decide 212 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 5: how what is a fair playing field from a cost 213 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 5: how do we handle you know, these vehicles. If we're 214 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 5: scared of a balloon, you can imagine a car with 215 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 5: ten cameras that can drive itself. You know, these are 216 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 5: incredibly sophisticated technologies, and when we deploy that in China, 217 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 5: it has to be approved by their defense department because 218 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 5: you know, those vehicles can be guided into all sorts 219 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 5: of things. 220 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 3: Well, we need the same. You know. 221 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 5: We have a good starting point for that philosophy of 222 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 5: the ITC of the vehicle, the digital footprint. Now we 223 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 5: have to, you know, make sense of that for the 224 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 5: China threat. I know that the President talked about that 225 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 5: during his visit at the Economic Club. 226 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 3: How do we handle Chinese cars? Now? His personal opinion 227 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 3: was we should let them into the US. 228 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 5: But but maybe you know, I think we need to 229 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 5: work through that as a as a company and as 230 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 5: as a country. I think there's always a lot of 231 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 5: big topics for the car industry because it's so important 232 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:17,959 Speaker 5: for our for our country. 233 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 2: Well, we'll be covering all of those here uh in 234 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 2: Detroit with you Jim and you Laurent. Thank you so 235 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 2: much for joining us.