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Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Well, hello, Whipsmarties.

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Speaker 1: We have someone on the podcast today that I have

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Speaker 1: such a talent crush on. I'm geeked that he's here.

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Speaker 1: From playing incredibly hilarious characters like Buster Bluth on Arrested

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Speaker 1: Development to Gary Walsh on Veep, we are joined today

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Speaker 1: by Emmy winner Tony Hale, who is here to talk

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Speaker 1: about a pretty profoundly different and deeply personal role that

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Speaker 1: he's playing in the fantasy drama feature film Sketch. What

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Speaker 1: really struck me about it is the movie exists in

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Speaker 1: this fantastical world, Tony's daughter's drawings come to life and

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Speaker 1: kind of wek havoc on a town, but they wind

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Speaker 1: up bringing the family closer together. And Tony isn't just

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Speaker 1: the star of Sketch, the great dad on screen. He

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Speaker 1: was a driving force behind the scenes, co producing this

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Speaker 1: movie and fighting for eight years to get it made.

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Speaker 1: Today we're going to talk about that journey, how you

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Speaker 1: really stay loyal to your creativity and your hunches about

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Speaker 1: what you want to do, His journey as a performer,

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Speaker 1: as an anxious person, as a father. Tony is so

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Speaker 1: self reflective and authentic and funny and just genuine. Oh

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Speaker 1: what a gem. Let's dive in with Tony him. Hello

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Speaker 1: for you, I'm great and thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: your flexibility and congratulation ends. Sketch is so beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Did you get a chance to see it?

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Speaker 1: Yes? They sent me the screener and I I just

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Speaker 1: love it. At one point I paused the movie and

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Speaker 1: I ran out. My partner was doing some work, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, I know you're working. I need you

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Speaker 1: to look at this. I just need you to look

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Speaker 1: at this. This is so amazing and it was really

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Speaker 1: I can't I felt like I couldn't wait to share

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Speaker 1: it with people. So I can't imagine how you feel

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Speaker 1: about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that means a lot, man, that means a lot.

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Speaker 2: It's it's it's taken us eight years to get it

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Speaker 2: made and we uh just I mean, you know, I

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Speaker 2: mean the business is so easy getting a film to

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Speaker 2: you know, Yeah, but it's like finding financing. And people

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Speaker 2: either thought it was going to when we pitched it.

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Speaker 2: They either thought it was going to be like The

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Speaker 2: Bob a Duke but then it had it was kind

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Speaker 2: of funny, or they thought it was like bomb Snowbits

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Speaker 2: got some emotional depth, so they couldn't really grab the

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Speaker 2: vision of it, which I get. And then just having

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Speaker 2: it released, it's a very like, uh, take care of

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Speaker 2: my kid kind of a feeling, you know. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 2: really proud of it. So I appreciate you watching it.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited for you. It really made me think.

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Speaker 1: You know, normally when people come on the show, the

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Speaker 1: very first question I ask them is the one I'll

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Speaker 1: ask you. If you could, like fold space time for

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Speaker 1: an afternoon and today, you could walk onto a playground

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Speaker 1: and hang out with your eight year old self, do

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Speaker 1: you think you'd see the man you are in that kid?

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Speaker 1: Do you think that kid's interests if you got to

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Speaker 1: watch him play or talk to him about what he

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Speaker 1: was into, would track for your career? And it's a

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Speaker 1: crazy question to post to someone who literally made this

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Speaker 1: beautiful movie about the inner world of a child.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. First, so I love that question. I love unique questions,

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Speaker 2: So I really appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: Oh thanks. Who.

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Speaker 2: I gotta be honest, I don't think it hasn't been

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Speaker 2: until probably the last five years to therapy that I've

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Speaker 2: like kind of liked that kid, you know, I mean

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Speaker 2: that's super kind of deep and cheesy. But I was

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Speaker 2: just kind of like that kid was kind of obnoxious

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Speaker 2: and just you know, just how much attention he could

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Speaker 2: get and I wasn't crazy about him. And then just

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Speaker 2: kind of, much like I've done with a lot of

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Speaker 2: my emotions, kind of invited them to the table rather

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Speaker 2: than trying to kind of, you know, compartmentalize them. That's

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Speaker 2: been helpful of like, yeah, it's a kid who Yeah,

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Speaker 2: he was kind of as we all do. You know,

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Speaker 2: middle school is like a piece of hell and so dismanaging.

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Speaker 2: You know, he was doing what he could to get

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Speaker 2: through it, and I think it was more of just

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Speaker 2: like I would. I can definitely see the pattern that

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Speaker 2: has developed. I can definitely see how the whole map

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Speaker 2: has been put together and how it definitely started there.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I was a very anxious kid. It's kind

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Speaker 2: of beautiful how that anxiety has used in today's work

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Speaker 2: that i've you know, or that I've been able to

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Speaker 2: put out, which is great. So I've seen the whole

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Speaker 2: kind of patch making of the quilt. But back then

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Speaker 2: you're just like in survival mode, you know, So it

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Speaker 2: just kind of me alongside him being like Hey, it's

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Speaker 2: gonna be okay, you know, just you're doing your best.

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Speaker 2: I think one thing one thing I do tell I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure you've talked a lot to like you're younger actors,

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Speaker 2: and they always ask your advice. But I would say, like,

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Speaker 2: just so you know, the value you have today is

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Speaker 2: going to be the exact same value you have after

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Speaker 2: whatever success you think is like success that your value

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Speaker 2: doesn't change. Yeah, I think I lived my life and

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Speaker 2: this business is in a way of like, you will

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Speaker 2: have value when this happens. You have value when this happens. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: even the way, even though in my mind I know

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Speaker 2: that's not true, the subconscious can believe that, you know,

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Speaker 2: and totally confirmation of like, yeah, my value is the

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Speaker 2: exact same is when I was back in middle school.

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Speaker 2: It hasn't changed absolutely well.

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Speaker 1: And I think you see that on such a large scale, right,

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Speaker 1: Like you know, you look around the world and this

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Speaker 1: sort of runaway, runaway capitalism, if you will, Like you

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Speaker 1: see all these people who have everything they could ever

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Speaker 1: want of value and value that they could never spend

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Speaker 1: or use, who still aren't satisfied. And so what you're

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Speaker 1: saying is really it's really hitting me because and maybe

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Speaker 1: it's the stage we're all in in life, right, Like

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Speaker 1: when people have gone through career shifts or divorces or

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Speaker 1: moved across the country or whatever the big change is,

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Speaker 1: and you realize like, oh, yeah, anywhere I go, I'm

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Speaker 1: still there. My problems are still there. Hopefully my joy

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Speaker 1: is still there, but like, oh, I really do. I

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Speaker 1: have to get to know me. I have to deal

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Speaker 1: with me. And I don't think it's an accident that

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Speaker 1: so many people are dealing with their own unique version

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Speaker 1: of this same situation. There's a universality to it.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's also I mean, I love you said

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Speaker 2: that because there's a there is a tremendous weight that

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Speaker 2: we put on these kind of whatever that big thing is.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I've talked about this so much. Do you

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Speaker 2: ever talk about something so much? And you're like, people

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Speaker 2: are so tired of me? You think about it?

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Speaker 1: But yes, but then I have to remind myself that

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Speaker 1: much like today, whatever you're about to say, I haven't

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Speaker 1: heard you say.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well that makes me feel better.

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Speaker 1: And there might be something I've said a thousand times

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Speaker 1: that's new information to you. There's probably fans of both

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Speaker 1: of ours that are like, shut the up, you keep

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Speaker 1: repeating this, but oh well, you know, we're just two

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Speaker 1: humans hanging out on zoom.

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Speaker 2: It's probably pretty narcissistic of me to think that everybody

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Speaker 2: listens to anyone.

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Speaker 1: Every single person knows every single thing I've ever said and.

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Speaker 2: They're counting them. But I when I booked Arrested Development,

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Speaker 2: that was my That was I all when I was

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Speaker 2: in New York, you know, just trying to make it quote,

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Speaker 2: make it. Being on a sitcom was like it for me.

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Speaker 2: It was like if I can I remember back then,

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Speaker 2: we had pilot season, if you remember, and it was

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Speaker 2: it was like the season where everything gets made, and

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Speaker 2: that pilot season would always run by me and I'd

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Speaker 2: be like, damn it, you know, I missed pilot season.

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Speaker 2: And then I booked it and I realized that it

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Speaker 2: did not satisfy me the way I thought I was

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Speaker 2: going to satisfy me, and it really really freaked me

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Speaker 2: out because I got, you know, I was fortunate enough

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Speaker 2: to get my quote dream and it didn't satisfy I

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Speaker 2: was like, oh shit, this is where to now and

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Speaker 2: it was and then after that was canceled, when I

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Speaker 2: kind of kicked into therapy, and I just realized like

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Speaker 2: that whole thing of like, if you're not practicing content

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Speaker 2: me where you are, you're not going to be content

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Speaker 2: when you get what you want. And I had not

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Speaker 2: been practicing contentment, you know, all my time in New York.

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Speaker 2: I mean not that, not that I didn't love my

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Speaker 2: time in New York, but anytime I was going through stuff,

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Speaker 2: I was like, you know what, whatever, that big thing's

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Speaker 2: come and that big things came in and I gave

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Speaker 2: it much weight, way too much weight, and match that weight.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's like putting too many eggs in one basket. Right,

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Speaker 1: we understand why that's bad or should be observed or

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Speaker 1: however you define it in a relationship. You know, you

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Speaker 1: hear you want you want to be happy with someone

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Speaker 1: but not co dependent. But nobody talks about codependence with

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Speaker 1: your career expectations or your personal goals. And it's kind

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Speaker 1: of striking me that that's sort of what it feels like,

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Speaker 1: you think, like, you know, it's the it's the work

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Speaker 1: version of like once I meet you know, my my

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Speaker 1: Prince Charming from the Disney movie, Everything's going to be amazing,

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Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, somebody still has to do the dishes, actually,

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Speaker 1: so good luck.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's also a big difference what I'm learning

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Speaker 2: with codependency and healthy dependence. Yeah, we need each other.

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Speaker 2: We're made community, We're made for relationships. And I've i've

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Speaker 2: I jokingly harp on codependency a lot because it's a strong,

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Speaker 2: strong than my history. But like, it doesn't mean I'm

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Speaker 2: supposed to be massively independent or.

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Speaker 1: Isolated, well, because that's not good either.

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Speaker 2: That's not good either. There is a balance of healthy

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Speaker 2: relying on each other, you know, and.

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Speaker 1: And where the reliance feels like joy, where it feels

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Speaker 1: like love totally, you know how nice, Like what a

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Speaker 1: what a thing? I'm curious, you know, when you talk

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Speaker 1: about that early success with Arrested, it's really interesting because

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Speaker 1: it makes me realize something like when I was working

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Speaker 1: on my first show, which similar thing, right like in

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Speaker 1: the early opts, you book a WB show like right

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Speaker 1: after Dawson's Creek, you know, what a thing. But then

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Speaker 1: our show also got relentlessly made fun of because it

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Speaker 1: was high tabloid culture the soup loved to talk about

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Speaker 1: and to be perfectly clear for our listeners, we were

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Speaker 1: doing a really dumb shit on that show, so like

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Speaker 1: they deserve to make fun of it. But in a

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Speaker 1: weird way, it gave me the opposite thing where I

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Speaker 1: was doing this thing that was largely pretty amazing and

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Speaker 1: kind of ridiculous, but ridiculous is fun, and I got

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Speaker 1: so almost allergic to liking it or thinking it was

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Speaker 1: good and only as a pandemic project. Rewatching the show

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Speaker 1: for a podcast with my friends, cause like how could

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Speaker 1: we work and what were we all doing? Anyway, we

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Speaker 1: were like, wait, this a lot of this is actually

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Speaker 1: really good. Like occasionally, you know, a dog eats a

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Speaker 1: guy's heart on the way to the hospital transplant, Like

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Speaker 1: that's ridiculous, but actually, these emotions, these actors, Like I

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Speaker 1: even looked back at myself and I was like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, you really ate up that scene, okay, And

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Speaker 1: I've been able to kind of enjoy it in a

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Speaker 1: way I didn't. Then, are you at a point where

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Speaker 1: you can go back and look at the those things

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Speaker 1: and just love them and love your time on them, or.

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Speaker 2: Yet I think, I'm man, it's a it's a tough

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Speaker 2: one because it's it's it's hard for me to watch

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Speaker 2: it and not constantly think how the sausage was made

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Speaker 2: or how this almost the feelings that I was going through.

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Speaker 2: I mean I was so overwhelmed arrested, which, by the way,

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Speaker 2: I would not have been able to play job on

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Speaker 2: that show because he was super confident. Thankfully, I was

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Speaker 2: playing like a very overwhelmed you know character was having

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Speaker 2: panic attacks every other day. So I mean that worked,

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Speaker 2: but I I think I was I was so honestly,

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Speaker 2: it's I related. I relate it to that kid in

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Speaker 2: middle school, like it's taken me a little time to

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Speaker 2: kind of be like I get you. I'm getting there

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Speaker 2: with that time, unarrested because I was just in this

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Speaker 2: uh really really, I never been on a stage. I've

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Speaker 2: never been a lot. I just asked a lot of

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Speaker 2: stupid questions. I mean I was just kind of overwhelmed.

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Speaker 2: So I think there's a little bit of a not embarrassment,

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Speaker 2: but kind of But then again, and also maybe I

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Speaker 2: gave a lot of power to people that I probably

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Speaker 2: just that I probably should not have given in just

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Speaker 2: the business in general, you know, so kind of that's

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Speaker 2: where I go back. I'm like, God, I really gave

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Speaker 2: that personal a lot of power, you know, that kind

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Speaker 2: of stuff. But that's Those are the regrets I have.

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Speaker 2: But in terms of the work I do really. I mean,

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Speaker 2: like my favorite joke on the show is Tobias joining

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Speaker 2: the Blue Man Group because he thinks it's a support

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Speaker 2: group of depressed men. I mean, I think that is

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Speaker 2: so later, and like him trusting he was my Him

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Speaker 2: and Job were probably my favorite characters. Will Arnett was

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Speaker 2: just you know what, I'm circling back. But it's like

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Speaker 2: I think watching other people on that show, it gives

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Speaker 2: me I love me, but for people. Yeah, and Deep

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Speaker 2: is a different story because it happened later and so

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Speaker 2: that I have no issue. I mean I enjoy that.

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Speaker 2: And I love watching bluep of reels because oh I

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Speaker 2: love that. That's what I remember. I remember just not

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Speaker 2: being able to keep it together. I mean, you know

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Speaker 2: that feeling like when your whole body is shaking and

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Speaker 2: you're just like, I I'm really trying my hardest, but

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm not gonna be able to make this and

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Speaker 2: I know the camera's on me, and I guess I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna lose it. That kind of feeling. I love watching

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Speaker 2: that stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh it's such a joy too, Like whether it's

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Speaker 1: you or someone you love to watch. Watching Somebody Break

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Speaker 1: really is one of my favorite, like favorite moments.

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Speaker 2: That I mean, I don't know if you grew up

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Speaker 2: you're younger than me, but the Caroburnett Show was a

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Speaker 2: big influence on me. And they would always Harve Tim

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Speaker 2: Conway trying to break up Harvey Korman just and you

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Speaker 2: can just see the pain in Harvey Korn. It's so

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Speaker 2: good and it's so freeing. It's such a moment of

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Speaker 2: accidental joy where it's yeah, nothing is planned, They're just

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Speaker 2: free and you're like, oh, I watched that. I just

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Speaker 2: I was telling somebody recently, it's like I would love

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Speaker 2: a comic con for just bloopers like I just to

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Speaker 2: like just be absorbed, and I love it.

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Speaker 1: We'll be back in just a minute after a few

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Speaker 1: words from our favorite sponsors. Is that so surreal to you?

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Speaker 1: Because when you talk about VEEP, I think about that

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Speaker 1: that level of complete political absurdity that you all were portraying.

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Speaker 1: And half of the days of my week now when

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Speaker 1: I look at the news, I'm like, is this a

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Speaker 1: headline from the Onion or is this the New York Times?

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Speaker 1: Like what's happening? Is it? Is it surreal? To you,

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Speaker 1: are you like, oh god, in some woo woo world,

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Speaker 1: like did we manifest?

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Speaker 2: This?

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Speaker 1: Is this the secret come to life?

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Speaker 2: Like that's so good? I do, I do. But what's

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Speaker 2: even more surreal is I remember an episode where Selena

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Speaker 2: was she tweeted something accidentally and we were all like

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Speaker 2: she we were all freaking out. And Trump lives on Twitter,

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Speaker 2: you know, stuff like that. Yes, and you're like, wait

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Speaker 2: a second, we were we thought this was extreme, and

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Speaker 2: now you know, CNN is its own political sitcom. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's that kind of And that's I think partly why

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Speaker 2: we or they stopped. I mean, I would have kept

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Speaker 2: going because I love them so much, but it was

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Speaker 2: there was nothing. Everything was had just become its own farce,

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Speaker 2: you know, wild. I mean, I'd love to go back,

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Speaker 2: but I think it just got things got too extreme.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I would give anything, please bring it back.

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Speaker 1: But I yeah, it is. It is kind of. It

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Speaker 1: must be a wild feeling to have read scripts for

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Speaker 1: that show and gone, okay, well, no one would really

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Speaker 1: do this. And now you see what's actually on the

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Speaker 1: internet from the literal president, and you go, oh, if

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Speaker 1: we'd written a fraction of that. The heads of the

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Speaker 1: studio would have said we were being insane and it

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Speaker 1: could never.

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Speaker 2: Go on the air totally. And I think that's exactly

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Speaker 2: what it happened. That the writers would be like, if

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Speaker 2: we had written a character like this easily, the note

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Speaker 2: would have been too broad. This is great, we've gotten

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Speaker 2: away from our because we're always trying to ground it somehow.

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Speaker 2: And it's like, two, a cartoon character is, you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of out there.

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Speaker 1: It's so nuts to me. It's like, we live in

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Speaker 1: the family. Guy. Do those things do you think they

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Speaker 1: strike you more deeply? Perhaps because of the way that

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Speaker 1: you grew up, because when I think about when I

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Speaker 1: look at the movie and this that you play, and

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Speaker 1: then I think about some of the things that you've

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Speaker 1: talked about in the ways you grew up and the

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Speaker 1: ways you came into the work. And you know, your

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Speaker 1: dad was a physics teacher and suddenly science is under attack,

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Speaker 1: your mom was involved in politics, and then you did Beep,

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Speaker 1: and now a cartoon character is the president, Like how

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Speaker 1: does it all kind of how does the dust settle

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Speaker 1: for you in your experience when you look around at

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Speaker 1: all of this.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's the first thing I thought about when

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Speaker 2: you said that is there is an irritation component of man,

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Speaker 2: there's I mean, honestly not to like. For instance, my

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Speaker 2: faith is important to me and I grew up in

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Speaker 2: a kind of a conservative environment, and many times there

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Speaker 2: is an association with my faith with a certain party

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Speaker 2: and it's if anything, I just go, ah, that's not

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Speaker 2: the faith I'm experiencing, you know, Like Christ says the

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Speaker 2: fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness,

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Speaker 2: and self control. That that's the fruit of someone following God.

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Speaker 2: I can't find one of those in a person that

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Speaker 2: is associated with with my faith. That's you know. And

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Speaker 2: I kind of I mean not to get too political,

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Speaker 2: but it's like that's when I get just speaking of

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Speaker 2: weep and I remember doing a storyline where my character

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Speaker 2: was kind of connected to kind of the faith component,

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Speaker 2: and I it was I that whole narrative, not the

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Speaker 2: narrative of the show, but just the narrative those out

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Speaker 2: there is really frustrating. You know. It's a very powerless

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Speaker 2: feelings sometimes because I'm like, wait a second, this isn't tracking,

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Speaker 2: you know, totally. Yeah, that was a total tangent, But

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Speaker 2: that when you were talking about that. That's where my

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Speaker 2: mind went immediately went no, but I think.

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Speaker 1: That's really powerful, the kind of incongruous nature of the

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Speaker 1: like preachers with private planes telling us to deport people

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Speaker 1: and take food away from children. You're like, whoa, this

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Speaker 1: is literally the opposite of what I learned. I feel confused,

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Speaker 1: and it is surreal. I you know, I feel really lucky.

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Speaker 1: I grew up my mom like deep Catholic family. My

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Speaker 1: dad grew up in a sect of Christianity and became

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Speaker 1: an atheist, and the entire rest of my family is Jewish,

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Speaker 1: and so I've done like all of the religious studies,

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Speaker 1: which I adore. And it is that incongruous experience of

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Speaker 1: watching people tell you. It's like someone saying to you,

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Speaker 1: I promise the sky is green, and it says so

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Speaker 1: in this book, and you're like, but it doesn't. It

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Speaker 1: literally says the sky is blue. And also the sky

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Speaker 1: is blue and I can see it and what And

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Speaker 1: it's so it's so confusing. But what I think, this

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Speaker 1: is going to be a wild connection. But this is

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Speaker 1: what's coming into my mind, and I hope you'll ride

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Speaker 1: this train with me. What I think stands out so

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Speaker 1: powerfully even in this very funny, strange, hybrid authentic and

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Speaker 1: heartbreaking but still so light in its moments movie you've made.

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Speaker 1: Is that the whole thing really is about a hero's

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Speaker 1: journey and a group of people learning to tell each

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Speaker 1: other the truth even when it's hard, and that to

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Speaker 1: me is kind of a spiritual thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's really powerful because I when you were talking,

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Speaker 2: I just immediately thought about the world the word control,

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Speaker 2: where it's the people are just trying to control a

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Speaker 2: narrative or doing things and say like this, and it's like, listen,

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Speaker 2: stop pointing the finger. You got to point the finger

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Speaker 2: back at yourself. Like we've got to start. I mean

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Speaker 2: just like that's bad. That's bad. It's like, no, let's

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Speaker 2: let's just start taking care of our own six feet

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Speaker 2: and be like what am I? What do I need

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Speaker 2: to work on? Who do I need to love? If

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Speaker 2: we start doing that, then that might cause some kind

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Speaker 2: of a change, the change that you're trying to If

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Speaker 2: you do that, then I might start doing that. But

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Speaker 2: it's like in the movie the dad who I play,

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Speaker 2: you know, he really thought compartmentalizing grief was kind of

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Speaker 2: the best thing to do, so if I can control it.

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Speaker 2: If I cannot, because he leaves me his wife in

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Speaker 2: the movie, and I mean I get it. I mean

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Speaker 2: I've I've got a nineteen year old daughter. I do

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Speaker 2: not want her to walk through challenges I don't want

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Speaker 2: to field. I mean, I want her to be happy

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Speaker 2: and all that hit that impulse. But if I tried,

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Speaker 2: he in the character of the movie, you know, doesn't

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Speaker 2: have pictures of her in the house. He really talk

401
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Speaker 2: about his wife, he and in his he really thinks

402
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Speaker 2: this is the equation to save the situation, when in actuality,

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Speaker 2: he's got to let go of that control and allow

404
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Speaker 2: his kids to process them the way they're going to

405
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Speaker 2: process them. That's how they're going to get through it.

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Speaker 2: And I feel like, you're right, that's kind of this.

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Speaker 2: What's happening is like in people's mind, they think, no,

408
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Speaker 2: if I do this, if I try to control this,

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Speaker 2: that's going to be the equation. Now you gotta let

410
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Speaker 2: go of that control and process it your own way

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Speaker 2: and back at yourself.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like that adage. You know, when I point

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Speaker 1: the finger at you, there's three fingers pointing back at me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a nice reminder. I think when you talk about

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Speaker 1: the movie and for our friends at home, Sketch was

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Speaker 1: released yesterday. How do you feel now that it's out

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Speaker 1: in the world. I mean, you talked at the top

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Speaker 1: of our conversation about putting eight years of effort into

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Speaker 1: getting this movie made. What's it like to have an

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Speaker 1: eight year old in the world for the last twenty

421
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Speaker 1: four hours. How do you feel?

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Speaker 2: Well? Thanks for First of all, that's really kind of

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Speaker 2: you to watch it and talk about it. I uh.

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Speaker 2: I think it goes back to that control. It's like

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Speaker 2: I am powerless to how people. I love it so much.

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Speaker 2: It's it means so much to me I and I

427
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Speaker 2: really want people to experience the joy that I have

428
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Speaker 2: experienced from it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I don't have that control, and I want that control.

431
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,120
Speaker 2: I mean I've been doing press for a while and

432
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,199
Speaker 2: it's hard not to be like, watch Sketch. I promise you,

433
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:37,719
Speaker 2: no love it.

434
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: I promise you it's going to make you feel so

435
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: good fx you.

436
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 2: But it's you know, I don't have that, and so

437
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 2: it's now it's just that kind of vulnerability of like, hey,

438
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 2: I gotta just let it go.

439
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, releasing it into the wild is.

440
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 2: Like, oh, it's tough, hard, it's tough.

441
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 1: What drew you to it?

442
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 2: You know?

443
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 1: Because I always think it's good you spoke earlier about

444
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,160
Speaker 1: how you know you'll talk to younger actors. I think

445
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,479
Speaker 1: it's so important to let people know how hard it

446
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: is and how long it takes to get something made,

447
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 1: and for you to stick by this thing for close

448
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 1: to a decade. When did it come to you? How

449
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 1: did it come to you? What made you say, you know,

450
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 1: come hell or high water. I am going to get

451
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: this movie out, Like, why do you think it got

452
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 1: in you like that?

453
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're fear like this too, I

454
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 2: don't know. I don't know, but something just kept because

455
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 2: you know, eight years ago, when Seth Worley, the writer

456
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 2: and director, brought me kind of half the script, I

457
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 2: was like, dang, because I knew his history with special effects,

458
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,479
Speaker 2: and even even in the movie, she's drawing things out

459
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 2: of chalk or crayon or sharpie or glitter, and you

460
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 2: can see the textures and the monsters when they come

461
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 2: to life. Yes, and I just loved his detail of that.

462
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 2: And then at the same time, being a dad, I

463
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 2: was like, I got the there's a new term called

464
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 2: snowplow parenting, where it's not helicopter parenting, but you want

465
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,880
Speaker 2: to move all the challenges in front of your kid.

466
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 2: You want to just snowplow them away. And I get that.

467
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 2: I fully get that, and I when I saw it,

468
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, man, I like the idea of

469
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 2: not only a kid watching this and feeling seen that, Like, yeah,

470
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 2: we all process feelings differently, but parents just given themselves

471
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 2: a break, you know of like, yeah, he is a

472
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 2: learning curve. Of course this dad thought he was doing

473
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 2: the right thing, and everybody else is like, whoa, let

474
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 2: your kids feel, Let your kids feel. But in his

475
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 2: mind he's like, no, we got to move. Like he

476
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,640
Speaker 2: just was in survival mode, you know. So I liked

477
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 2: I resonated with that. But yeah, to the what to

478
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 2: your question of it's hard, it's crazy man, this and

479
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 2: you can relate to this. I mean we've both done

480
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 2: work and at the time it looks like working all

481
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 2: the time, when in actuality, there's months in between those

482
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,199
Speaker 2: jobs where you're hining for work. You're like, when's the

483
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 2: next job and how is this going to be received?

484
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,239
Speaker 2: And you're gig to gig, you know, you're calling your

485
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: agent and you'll be like, hey' is anything going on?

486
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 2: What's happening. It's like there is a I've been doing

487
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 2: this for thirty years and there's you know, there's just

488
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 2: there was a season actually after arrest of development, where

489
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 2: we thought we were gonna have to sell our house

490
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 2: because we were like, we don't know if I remember

491
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 2: the month that arrest had got canceled, we bought a

492
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 2: house and my daughter was born. So this was, you know,

493
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 2: almost two years ago, and I turned to my wife

494
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,719
Speaker 2: and I was like, I don't I don't know what

495
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 2: to do. I don't know what and so we kind

496
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 2: of kept going and gigs weren't really flying that much,

497
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 2: and I was and we've talked to our kind of

498
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 2: our financial consultant, be like, do we think we need

499
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 2: to sell the house, And he's like, we're not there yet,

500
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,199
Speaker 2: but it might be coming, you know, And you're like,

501
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 2: you know, you just but that's kind of and then

502
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 2: you kind of take funds from other things and you

503
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 2: make it work. But it is a bit of a

504
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 2: piecemeal together. Koreer and as you, I mean, we both

505
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,719
Speaker 2: know this business. This man is I so many times

506
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 2: people have said, hey, you just can't take it personally.

507
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 2: You just can't take it personally. It's hard to not

508
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 2: take a personally. Yeah, right, it's tough.

509
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 1: One of the craziest things about that to me as

510
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: an actor is our entire job is to be so

511
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 1: raw and so empathetic that we can feel another person's

512
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: feelings and portray them as our own. Yeah, and then

513
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 1: we get our feelings hurt and people are like, don't

514
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: let it hurt your feelings. I'm like, are you nuts?

515
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 2: Are you?

516
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: Are you nuts? It's like the weird misnomer. It's like

517
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: the comment section people on the internet are like, look

518
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: at how many this point, this many million. You must

519
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: just have people kissing your ass. I'm going to be

520
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: doubly mean to you. And it's like, so you're just

521
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: doubly mean. I'm just running into doubly mean people all

522
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: day and I'm not supposed to let it affect me.

523
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: I'm like a sensitive little smush. What do you mean,

524
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: I'm like moving around in the world like a snail

525
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: without a shell.

526
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 2: I'm built. That's your job too, Like you have to

527
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 2: you got to access these feelings, and you're right, you

528
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 2: can't turn them off when somebody says words like it,

529
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 2: it does and when somebody says like if you're going

530
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 2: for me, if I'm going out for a job, and

531
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 2: someone's like, yeah, you weren't right? What's that? What what

532
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 2: I'm like?

533
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: But what do you mean?

534
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 2: What do you mean? And it's also the sense of like,

535
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 2: I sure i'd loved I know, I know that it's

536
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 2: I wasn't right, but it's it's tough to not feel it.

537
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: You get well, yeah, because then you think, but what

538
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: could I have done that would have been right?

539
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 2: Totally, totally totally.

540
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: And you know what I've started to do. Here's here's

541
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: a little nugget. I don't know why it's helping, but

542
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: this came out of a conversation with one of my

543
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: best friends where we were talking about why is the

544
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: negative weigh so heavy and the positive way so light?

545
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: Why why isn't everything just for a pound of flesh

546
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: if you will? And we were like, Okay, how do

547
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: we take the things that feel hard and put a

548
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: little humor on them? Or a little something you don't

549
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: get a job, or you don't get the thing, or

550
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: something doesn't go your way, like how do you take

551
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: your power back a little bit? And what we've both

552
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: started to do is, you know, will vent about something

553
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: or be sad about something and then be like, oh, well,

554
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: sucks for them. I'm so fun, and like that's the

555
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: end of it. I'm so fun. I'm such a good time.

556
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: I bring good snacks, like whatever dumb thing any of

557
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: us can think of. And it's funny because none of

558
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: my best friend and like the little group that we

559
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: do this with on a on a group chat, like

560
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: none of us work in the same industries. Yeah, but

561
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: we're all experiencing our own versions of the same thing.

562
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: And I'm just like, sucks for them, I'm a good time.

563
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: And that's then I get a little bit of it back.

564
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 2: No, great that I'm so fun, Like I was saying that,

565
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 2: because oh my god, I'm so fun. I'm so fun.

566
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 2: Because the amount of other talk give ourselves. Yeah, that

567
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 2: that that closet that like packed full of shame is full.

568
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 2: You know, it's totally I can just completely rip myself

569
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 2: apart and take my court and constantly, you know, all

570
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 2: the all the time, those little things like I'm so fun,

571
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 2: we just don't even saying it. There's a lot of

572
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 2: power in kind of putting a label on it, that's

573
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 2: like yeah, I mean.

574
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: Even in this conversation me to you, I'm like, Tony,

575
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: you're brilliant and like you're a good time, You're a

576
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: good hang. It must be really, it's so nice to

577
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: be smart and fun.

578
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 2: Take it with you, dub.

579
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: Mercy, and now a word from our wonderful sponsors.

580
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 2: I like that. I really love you're doing a podcast,

581
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 2: by the way, because I think you're really good at this.

582
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,719
Speaker 1: Thanks. You know what for a person who's like absolutely

583
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: a little bit on the spectrum, who wants to have

584
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: deep talks and who always no matter what, like I

585
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: would tell I would say like six out of nine,

586
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: six out of ten times I go to a thing,

587
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: I don't know what happens. I don't know if I like,

588
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: if I have a little bit of some sort of

589
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: energy that I can't help but let seep out into

590
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: the world. I wind up in a corner and somebody's

591
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: like telling me their deepest, darkest secrets. We're unpacking what's

592
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 1: going on in their relationship or with their family or whatever.

593
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: And I kind of love that. But I also realize

594
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: occasionally where I'm like, ooh, I'm having like a really

595
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: I'm having that little like ADHD with the Wing experience

596
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: where I ask a question and I'm like, ooh, the room.

597
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: One other person's there with me, but like the other

598
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: four people in this conversation are like, that's kind of

599
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: a lot. I realized a podcast gives me the container

600
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: within which to ask questions, to let conversations be as

601
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: deep as they want to be. And and I love it.

602
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: I just love it. And like, I don't know, maybe

603
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: it's because I grew up begging my mom to pick

604
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: me up early from school so i'd be home before

605
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 1: Oprah started, not ten minutes after. It's after her show started,

606
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: so I could just watch her like talk to people

607
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: about their lives.

608
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 2: You know, that's cool.

609
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: But I love it.

610
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 2: You always had, you always walk into that permission of

611
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 2: being like, this is always going to be that conversation

612
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 2: that's nice.

613
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, And if it's and if it's light and we're

614
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: like laughing and being stupid the whole time, great. Sometimes

615
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: it's a hybrid. Sometimes it's really serious and I like

616
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: getting to meet people where they are.

617
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's kind of COOLT Holmes calls. He says,

618
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 2: some people have to tell you tell me your pain

619
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 2: face and I totally just like there's an openness to

620
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 2: like your face or that it's like people feel free

621
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 2: to like just tell me the pain, which you know,

622
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 2: I also really enjoy that. Try not to fix it,

623
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 2: that's the challenge. That's that's tough. But yeah, it's hard

624
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 2: for me because I want to be like, oh, well,

625
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 2: this is what I went through, and it's like, no,

626
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 2: why don't you just listen Tony.

627
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. Another one that I got from my therapist, which

628
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: is really good, is when I can feel that urge

629
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: coming to say, quick question, do you want to talk

630
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: about how to solve it? Or do you just need

631
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 1: someone to listen to the problem. And if I can

632
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 1: know myself well enough to ask that question, then the

633
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: person I'm talking to can tell me what they need

634
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: and in a weird way, then I don't feel like

635
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: they want me to fix something. And if they do,

636
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, you trusted me with that?

637
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 2: Yay. That's actually I lose that on my daughter. That's

638
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 2: really in my wife because we you know, like I

639
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 2: do have that compulsion to be like oh, especially with

640
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 2: my daughter, like I've been through this and it's like, no,

641
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 2: I want me do you want a solution? Right now,

642
00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 2: do you want my thoughts on a solution or do

643
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 2: you want me just to listen totally?

644
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: And it's nice for them, and it's nice for you

645
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 1: because I get the sense, you know, maybe anxiety recognizes anxiety.

646
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: It's like the less cool version of like game recognizes game. Yeah, Like,

647
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: I'm like, if I don't know what someone needs, I

648
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: actually can get a little anxious listening because I have

649
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: all these thoughts and I don't know when it's appropriate

650
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 1: to say which one, And weirdly asking them the question

651
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: makes it easier for them and also so much easier

652
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: for me. So it's kind of nice. It's like a

653
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 1: double gift.

654
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 2: You know.

655
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: As a dad being in this position, I can't imagine

656
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: what it's like to have a kid that's, you know,

657
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty who's out in the world. Because to your

658
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: point of course, you want to remove obstacles and difficulty

659
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:58,359
Speaker 1: from your children's lives, your child's life, but they learn

660
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 1: resiliency by encountering problems and solving them. And so the

661
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: duality of that, I imagine, two decades into doing it

662
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: is pretty intense. Knowing about your personal struggles with anxiety,

663
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: you know, your your own experiences processing your childhood. How

664
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 1: do you feel like you can look back at your

665
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: history and then forward at what you watch your kid

666
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:33,320
Speaker 1: do and figure out how to how to parent.

667
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a tough one because I mean I wouldn't

668
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 2: just like both of us, probably, I wouldn't be who

669
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 2: I am without everything I've gone through.

670
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

671
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 2: In fact, like there's no way I would not have empathy.

672
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,760
Speaker 2: I mean all that kind of stuff is the result

673
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 2: of what I've been through. But it's like, man, it's

674
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 2: like that that knowledge in me turns off with her,

675
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 2: Like it's just I just there is a there's a

676
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 2: when they're growing up, there's a big difference between a

677
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:09,240
Speaker 2: performance cry and a real cry. You know, like because

678
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 2: I had that cry, we're just that kind of you know,

679
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 2: like there's a little bit of like I need some

680
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 2: attention or I need you know, whatever it's it's but

681
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 2: when there's a real genuine cry and that you can

682
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 2: see their feelings will hurt. Oh, it is absolutely heartbreaking.

683
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 2: And to this day, like when she's really I mean

684
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,720
Speaker 2: she obviously the performance cries go away when they're little,

685
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 2: but it's like anytime she's hurt or I can see

686
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 2: that paint. It's just there is Oh, it's just that

687
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 2: you just want to rescue them, just constantly ecue them.

688
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 2: And she has got to walk through it, she's got

689
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 2: to feel it, and I've just got to come over

690
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 2: her and listen, like to your point and not give

691
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 2: a solution unless she asks. And man, there's just I

692
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 2: don't even I don't even know. I just take a

693
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 2: day to day. I mean, she's actually come home. She's

694
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 2: been working in a camp as a counselor for the

695
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 2: past month and a half and so.

696
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,280
Speaker 1: She said, I did that. I loved being a camp counselor.

697
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 2: She loves it. It was the same camp that she's

698
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,760
Speaker 2: been going to for like ten years. And yeah, she's

699
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 2: coming home tomorrow and oh man, it's both my wife

700
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 2: and I are just like we're super but at the

701
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 2: same time, you want to give them space and you know, yeah,

702
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,399
Speaker 2: it's been kind of in performance mode for a month

703
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 2: and a half and so like totally have her space.

704
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 2: But it's just like hei, hi, hi, hi.

705
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: You're like, oh my god, I missed you so much.

706
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 1: I don't want you to know how much, but it's

707
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:35,240
Speaker 1: so much.

708
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 2: I don't know.

709
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: That's so sweet.

710
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 2: The day to day thing of like just really trying

711
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 2: to check myself.

712
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: You know, well that and I don't want to give

713
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: any spoilers away to the movie, but you know, also

714
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,879
Speaker 1: being an adult anxious asthmatic kid.

715
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 2: Who is You're an asthmatic kid, you are too, I know.

716
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: It's really I was like, I could always tell.

717
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 2: There was something tribe look at it.

718
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but there's like this really cool thing that happens.

719
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of how to reflect on it

720
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: without spoiling anything for our audience. A scene in your

721
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:22,720
Speaker 1: film with you and the wonderful young actress who plays

722
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: your daughter by the lake or the pond, however we

723
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 1: classify it, and you really see each other and you

724
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: get to explain some things to her and she gets

725
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: to explain some things to you, and it's so beautiful.

726
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: And maybe the reason I thought about it this way

727
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 1: is because my therapist is really worth every penny I

728
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:50,879
Speaker 1: pay him. But I was like, oh, this is one

729
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: of those moments where some part of me gets reparented

730
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: by watching a by watching what's happening between a parent

731
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: and a child. Yeah, and I know that when you

732
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: have kids, you know, I've got little kids in my life.

733
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: You get these opportunities parenting them, assisting them that sort

734
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: of reparent something in you. Did this? Did this movie

735
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: feel like that for you?

736
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 2: Yeah? It did. I mean the other actor, Q Lawrence,

737
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 2: who played my son, and.

738
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 1: They were both unbelievable kids.

739
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 2: Such good kids. You know, one thing that I really

740
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 2: connected to was just the dad. There's a moment when

741
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 2: the dad just says, I kind of screwed up. You know,

742
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:43,720
Speaker 2: I really really miscalculated how to process this whole situation.

743
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 2: And you know, I recently actually did that with my daughter.

744
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 2: I'm talking to her and I remember when she was

745
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 2: really young and I got kind of mad at her

746
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 2: about something and it was just silly. I was stressed

747
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 2: out and she was being a kid, and I remember

748
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 2: there's just this moment where I was like, you can't

749
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 2: do this, and I could just see that face in

750
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 2: her and I said, sweetheart. And today, like when she

751
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 2: was home, I was like, I remember this moment and

752
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 2: I'm just so sorry. I was this was so angry

753
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 2: about this stupid thing, and she's like, you know, Dad,

754
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 2: I don't even she don't think she even remembered it.

755
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 2: But you know, you just the more and it's hard.

756
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,879
Speaker 2: It's hard because there's a part of there's a part

757
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 2: of humanity where you feel like if I I'm that weak,

758
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 2: then it somehow it's not connected to strength, you know,

759
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 2: like they're not gonna they're not gonna see me as

760
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 2: whatever that whatever I think a parent needs to be

761
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 2: seen as. And it's like we're if they there's so

762
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 2: much prower in the humanity of like, man, I'm just

763
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 2: I really I messed that one up, but you know,

764
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 2: I love you and I'm doing my best that kind

765
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 2: of thing. I think there's so much power in that

766
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 2: that I I, even as a parent, still think I

767
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 2: have to reframe like, yeah, there is power in that

768
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:53,760
Speaker 2: being that honest.

769
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: You know, absolutely, And I'd wager it takes more power,

770
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 1: more conviction, uh more wisdom to be courageous and vulnerable

771
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: in that way than it does to do the quick

772
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 1: to anger oh traditional power strength thing totally.

773
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 2: And you know, the fact is my daughter is probably

774
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 2: more than likely probably going to be in therapy one

775
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 2: day for how having an anxious you know, yeah you

776
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 2: know who like was playing crazy characters? I don't know,

777
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 2: but like there's going to be something that is going

778
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 2: to deal with and of course, as a part of

779
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 2: me that was like, what did I do wrong? What

780
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 2: did I do wrong? Well, we're human, you know. I

781
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 2: there's no perfection in that. You know. That's but that's

782
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:47,919
Speaker 2: that's kind of a reality. That's like, Yeah, that's probably

783
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 2: gonna happen. She's going to be in therapy for something.

784
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: I mean, aren't we all? Yeah, it's okay. What do

785
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,919
Speaker 1: you think you know, looking at the kind of land

786
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: scape of what you're processing as a person, what you're

787
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 1: releasing into the world as a professional, you know, even

788
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 1: the fact that you're you're about to get your kid

789
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: back from summer camp, Like there's so much happening in

790
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 1: every sphere. What at this point feels like your work

791
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: in progress, the thing you want to tackle next, or

792
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 1: maybe the thing you're going to tackle forever.

793
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I got this question recently. Sounds super cheesy,

794
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:32,879
Speaker 2: but I'm just going to say it. It was during

795
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 2: an interview and they can ask what's next? They said

796
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 2: what's next for you? And I said, honestly, now I'm

797
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 2: going to turn into Oprah. But I said, honestly, at

798
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 2: this stage of my life, Uh, there's I'm really trying

799
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 2: to ask myself what's here? Because I don't. I've been

800
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 2: just for so long. And there's nothing wrong with ambition,

801
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with dreaming, there's nothing wrong than you know,

802
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 2: obviously planning and looking to the next thing. But so

803
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 2: much of my life has been devoted to that of

804
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 2: just thinking next and you know, wondering what's next, and

805
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,240
Speaker 2: I just haven't really taken the time to look around

806
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 2: and ask myself, what's here? You know, what's going on here?

807
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 2: What's where am I? Because those times when I do

808
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 2: that is the things that I actually remember, ironically, you know,

809
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 2: when I do take the time to look around and

810
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 2: what's your life? My wife and I joke that we've

811
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 2: been married for twenty two years and neither one of

812
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 2: us remember our weddings because we just weren't. We kind

813
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 2: of remember it, but it's like I was so distracted

814
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 2: and I was so like, I don't know, just this

815
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 2: kind of whirlwind, and I don't think either one of

816
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 2: us were very present. And now it's like taking deep

817
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 2: breast and kind of looking around and hey, what's here,

818
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 2: what's here? That's kind of what I'm asking myself. So

819
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 2: all that to say, I feel like it's been kind

820
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 2: of going for these heightened experiences, and I've missed the

821
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 2: power of kind of the every day, the power of

822
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 2: the power of the ordinary. You know, life is fast.

823
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 2: I'm fifty four years old. I just you know, started

824
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 2: when I was twenty five, and it's like it's fast,

825
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 2: and I just, you know, I I don't want to

826
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 2: I don't, not in a sense of regret. But I

827
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 2: think most of the power and life is in the ordinary,

828
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,959
Speaker 2: is in the every day, in relationships, not in these

829
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:28,959
Speaker 2: big mountaintop experiences. And I'm always looking to what's next.

830
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 2: It's just not you know. So I as I get older,

831
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 2: I want the power to really surface more in those

832
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 2: every day Yeah.

833
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: I love that. What's here. That's a good work in progress, Tony,

834
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: That's a good one.

835
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 2: It's hard, though, I love it. My therapist says, I

836
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 2: have to You have to wake yourself up one hundred

837
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 2: times a day to where you are. And it's true.

838
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:58,959
Speaker 2: I just constantly to wake myself up because my head

839
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 2: is somewhere else, Like it's checked into either anxiety, it's

840
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 2: checked into dreaming, it's checked into whatever, and it's like

841
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 2: I gotta check in to now, I gotta check in.

842
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,439
Speaker 1: It's beautiful. Where can all of our friends at home

843
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: watch sketch.

844
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 2: Ye at theaters it opens? It opened yesterday, and uh yeah,

845
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 2: they can watch it hopefully at a theater. Are you

846
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 2: it's I think it's opening to like about two thousand screens.

847
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: Amazing.

848
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 2: So I'm just amazing stoked, and you know, and I

849
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,319
Speaker 2: first of all, I really appreciate you doing this. This

850
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 2: is so nice.

851
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,439
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, thank you? Are you kidding? It's It's

852
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 1: a joy to have you on the show. I would

853
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 1: like to volunteer myself as tribute for whatever project you're

854
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 1: doing next, even if it takes eight years. I'm down.

855
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,399
Speaker 1: I'm a real I'm a I'm a like a dog

856
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: with a bone. I can be a pain in the ass,

857
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 1: which feels like gets stuff made, but also like I'm

858
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: really fun, you know, like a like a fun pain

859
00:46:58,680 --> 00:46:59,240
Speaker 1: in the ass.

860
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 2: That's so great. I just this is a real gift

861
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 2: to a lot of people. You're doing this though, because

862
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 2: just being all these conversations, you know, it's an opportunity

863
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 2: to kind of get a little deeper