1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Hey, folks, Tie here just a note before we get started. 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: The conversation in this episode was recorded before Uni Lever's 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: recent announcement that Alan Job will be retiring from UNI 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: Lever at the end of Okay, here's the show. Unless 5 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: you're a crystal clear in your mind why it makes 6 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: you a better business, how it will drive stronger performance, 7 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: don't start the journey because this is not CSR. This 8 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: is not some offset where you can buy a clean 9 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: conscience by donating to a charity or having a park 10 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: made next to your headquarters. Unless it sits at the 11 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: heart of your business model, driving revenue growth, taking out cost, 12 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: improving your employee proposition, don't do it. Welcome to calling Bullshit. 13 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: The podcast about Purpose, a swashing the gap between what 14 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: companies say they stand for and what they actually do, 15 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: and what they would need to change to practice what 16 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,559 Speaker 1: they preach. I'm your host, Tie Ontogue, and I've spent 17 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: over a decade helping companies define what they stand for, 18 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,320 Speaker 1: their purpose and then help them to use that purpose 19 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: to drive transformation throughout their business. In this special episode 20 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: a positive case study, we're doing a deep dive into 21 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: Unilever with their CEO, Alan job to find out how 22 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: a global company of such vast scale, with such a 23 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: complex history keeps purpose front and center. You may not 24 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: even have heard of Unilever, but I bet you've grown 25 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: up using a bunch of their products. Dove Soap, Lipped 26 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: and Ta Basiline, Ben and Jerry's, to name just a few. 27 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: Many of these brands are purpose led in their own right. 28 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: But what if the company that owns all of these 29 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: household brands committed to operating under a single purpose to 30 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 1: make sustainable living commonplace. What if they committed to net 31 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: zero carbon and regenerative farming practices, cut their use of 32 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: virgin plastics, and ensured fair wages for everyone up and 33 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: down their supply chains. Imagine the profound impact that could 34 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: have on the future of the planet. Unilever has imagined 35 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: that impact, and as the parent company to these famous 36 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: brands and hundreds of others, they're in the unique position 37 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: to bring that dream to life. But how do they 38 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: pull this off? It is such an ambitious project. They 39 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,519 Speaker 1: have hundreds of thousands of employees, three point four billion 40 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: customers around the globe, and over a century of complex 41 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: history to grapple with. I had the opportunity to sit 42 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: down with their CEO, Alan Joke, for an honest conversation 43 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: about the opportunities and challenges that Unilever faces and how 44 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 1: he plans to help you. Leaver continue the journey into 45 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: a purpose driven and ever brighter future. But first let's 46 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: delve into Unilever's history. The story begins in nine century Holland, 47 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: when two butter making families, the Jurgen's and the Vandenburgh's, 48 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: turned their efforts toward a new product, Marjarine. Meanwhile, over 49 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: in England, William Lever was also making changes at his 50 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: family business, Leaver Brothers. The resulting product, Sunlight Soap, was 51 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: so popular that soon they were making four dred and 52 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: fifty tons of it every week. Consider progressive for his time, 53 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: William Lever saw his company as more than just a 54 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: profit engine. His mission was to make cleanliness commonplace and 55 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: bring hygiene and thereby help to the masses. He wanted 56 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 1: to do well by doing good, to grow his company 57 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: and simultaneously, where's the standard of living for both his 58 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: customers and his employees. With prosperity sharing as his guiding principle, 59 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: he built a village called Ports Sunlight, where he offered 60 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 1: affordable housing and other amenities to factory workers. It was here, 61 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: at a time when benefits were practically unheard of, that 62 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: he introduced innovations like sick leave, paid time off, and pensions. 63 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: After years of common interests and even some collaboration behind 64 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: the scenes, the Yurgans and the Vandenburg's officially combined their 65 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: businesses in nineteen twenty seven to create Margarine UNI. Two 66 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 1: years later, Lever Brothers joined the fold in what The 67 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: Economist called one of the biggest industrial amalgamations in European history. 68 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: In simpler terms, Unilever was born. Over the next half century, 69 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: Unilever grew a lot. They continued to acquire and launch 70 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: new companies and brands, and by the nineteen eighties they'd 71 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: become the world's twenty six largest corporation. But through the 72 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 1: eyes of someone looking back from the company engaged in 73 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: some fairly questionable activities During this period of rapid expansion. 74 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: There were some controversial marketing campaigns for skin lightning products 75 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 1: in the global South, and human rights violations like child labor. 76 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: Over the years, parts of Unilever had definitely lost touch 77 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: with ports. Sunlight's founding principle of doing well by doing good. 78 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 1: In the late ninety nineties, with their ideals off track 79 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: and growth stalled, the business was in decline and in 80 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: they took dramatic action and cut three quarters of their 81 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: nearly six hundred brands. But even after shifting focus to 82 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 1: their most successful brands, the next decade really only saw 83 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 1: some modest returns. By the time uni Lever was hit 84 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: by the two thousand and eight recession, it was clear 85 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 1: that the only way forward was to get a truly 86 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: fresh perspective. The most important thing is that you pursue 87 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 1: your your purpose, whatever you feel strong about. Figure out 88 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: where you want to make the difference. That's the first 89 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 1: thing you need to do. That's Paul Pullman. He had 90 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: steered Unilever's rival Nestle through this financial storm as their 91 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 1: cf OH. This caught the attention of the head haunchos 92 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: at Unilever, and instead of hiring from within, they decided 93 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: to poach Paul Pullman in two thousand and nine. He 94 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: became Unilever's new CEO. First order of business get everybody 95 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: on board with his ambitious vision. Because I came in 96 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: from the outside. Some people felt that the Troy and 97 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: Horse was let into the company. And I discovered very 98 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: early on that it was for me to prove that 99 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: I could be part of the team, instead of them 100 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: to prove that they could be part of my team. 101 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: To do this, he knew he needed a better understanding 102 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: of Unilever's history, so he turned his attention to the 103 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: company archives and started digging. And we came to some 104 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: enormous values, and one of them is certainly doing well 105 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: by doing good. He had unearthed those same principles upon 106 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: which William Lever built Ports Sunlight. We took all that 107 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: strength and said, can we not turn that into a 108 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: business model? That is that's what they needed right now. 109 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: Palman implemented what he called the Sustainable Living Plan, which 110 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: aligned their global business strategy with the well being of employees, customers, 111 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: and the environment. They also started acquiring purpose led businesses 112 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: like Seventh Generation and Ben and Jerry's, and Paul brought 113 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: a new approach to Unilever's finances as well, signaling to 114 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: investors that if they weren't interested in sustainable, long term 115 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 1: value creation, that they should take their money elsewhere. If 116 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: you want to solve all these issues like climate chance 117 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: or food security, or poverty alleviation, or access to clean 118 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: drinking water or education. You cannot be victim to the 119 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,959 Speaker 1: quarterly reporting. So you need different business models. And you know, 120 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: even when I became CEO, we stopped doing quarterly reporting, 121 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: We stopped giving guidance. We moved our compensation systems to 122 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: the long term. And make no mistake, Palman said ambitious 123 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: financials for the company as well. He declared that he 124 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: expected the company to double revenue while cutting its environmental 125 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:11,719 Speaker 1: impact in half. To put that in perspective, Unilever had 126 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: three hundred factories across the world, four hundred brands, and 127 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: two point five billion customers, no small task. When Pullman 128 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: stepped down in January, he generated a two hundred and 129 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:34,839 Speaker 1: nine percent shareholder return. He had expanded Unilever's global market share, 130 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: and he had become a purpose driven business legend. And 131 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:45,479 Speaker 1: the story continues with our guests today. Paul Pullman's handpicked 132 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: successor and current Unilever CEO, Alan Joe. As you'll hear, 133 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: Alan is a warm, engaging leader who has worked in 134 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: almost every part of Unilever's business around the world. I 135 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: was fortunate enough to work with him as a client 136 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: when he was a senior marketer at UNI Lever and 137 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: I was an advertising creative director. We sat down to 138 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: discuss his approach to sustainability and how he keeps purpose 139 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: front and center while he runs a global corporation with 140 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: real integrity. That conversation right after the break, I am 141 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:32,319 Speaker 1: extremely excited to introduce the CEO of UNI Leaver, Alan 142 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 1: Job Alan, welcome to calling bullshit. Hi Tai, thanks for 143 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: having me. It's great to be here, Nice to see 144 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 1: you after a while. Great to see you too. And 145 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: to start out with, I thought it would be great 146 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: to just have you tell us a little bit about 147 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 1: yourself and your background. Sure you can maybe tell from 148 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: my accent that I'm Scottish by birth, grew up in Glasgow, 149 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,199 Speaker 1: went to University in Edinburgh and then joined Unilever Streets. 150 00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: After university um and the first five years in London, 151 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: then fourteen years in the United States and thirteen years 152 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: in Asia. My family and wife and I have lived 153 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 1: for four years in Bangkok, five years in Shanghai and 154 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: four years in Singapore. Came back to the UK just 155 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: four years ago. So after twenty seven years away, I'm 156 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: a cultural stranger in my own country. A lot of 157 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: my a lot of my time in marketing UM, but 158 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: then progressed into general management and plenty of interests outside 159 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: of work. I certainly don't live to work. But when 160 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: you became CEO, you took over from Paul Paulman, who 161 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: is the person who put Unilever on the path to 162 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: really being a purpose led organization. What has that transition 163 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: been like for you taking the range yourself and also 164 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: taking over for Paul. Well, in terms of the continuity 165 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: of our sort of sustainability journey, it was relatively straightforward 166 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: for a couple of reasons. First of all, it's not 167 00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:59,199 Speaker 1: a ten year old thing. It's a hundred and ten 168 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: year old thing. Our various founders and Uni Leaver are 169 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: believed in running the business on a sustainable or purposeful way. 170 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: This guy, William Lever, who found our Leaver Brothers, one 171 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: of our antecedent companies, did all kinds of cool things. 172 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: He built a model village to house his workers when 173 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: his workers went off to fight in the First World War. 174 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: Not only did he hold their jobs open for them, 175 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: he paid their families their wages while they were all fighting. Um. 176 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 1: He kind of invented pensions. He had an elaborate system 177 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: to create libraries for those workers children, and he back 178 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: in the eighties to find the mission of the firm 179 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: as to make cleanliness commonplace and lessen the load for women. 180 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: So he was a very early on to social issues 181 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,959 Speaker 1: and public health issues. Now, over the history of the company, 182 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,839 Speaker 1: we have generally tried to do the right thing as 183 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: a business, often after exploring every other possible alternative, and 184 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: sort of Paul snift out this DNA and did an 185 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,080 Speaker 1: utterly brilliant job putting it back in the center of 186 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: our business strategy and our culture. So it's something that 187 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 1: was very easy to carry forward. Also, frankly, I believe 188 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: strongly in in this mission as well, and maybe that's 189 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: partly why he was an enthusiastic supporter of me coming 190 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: into the role. But it's not been a difficult thing 191 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: to pick it up and run with it. Yeah, And 192 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: so it's fascinating that William Lever is kind of an 193 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: O G conscious capitalist. I would say it sounds like 194 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,319 Speaker 1: in some ways he is. There is dark sides to 195 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: his history as well. So we had we had palmwell 196 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: plantations in the Congo where we suspect strongly that there 197 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: was a form of forced labor um. In fact, we've 198 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: commissioned an academic study with the University of Liverpool to 199 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: get to the bottom of that. We don't want that 200 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: to be a secret. If something bad went on back there, 201 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: then we want to know all about it. But the 202 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:53,959 Speaker 1: vast majority of Leavers activities were holy positive. In fact, 203 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: I found a brochure recently where for the first football 204 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 1: match between Lever brother there's Port Sunlight football team versus 205 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: Everton FC. Every Everton one one I have to admit. Okay, 206 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: So pivoting to Unilever today, how do you articulate Unilever's purpose. Yeah, 207 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: we do articulate the purpose of the company as being 208 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: to make sustainable living commonplace. We want to be a 209 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: force for good as a company that, through our operations 210 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: and through our brands, we help people to live more 211 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: sustainable lives. And so I think if you ask most 212 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: people in Unilever they would be able to see, Yeah, 213 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: the purpose of the company is to make sustainable living commonplace. 214 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: It's accompanied by a very clear vision which is we 215 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: want to be the global leader and sustainable business and 216 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: we want to prove that it drives better financial outcomes. Yeah, 217 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: and I'm sure we'll get into this in a second, 218 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: but that sits right alongside our purpose, absolutely, And and 219 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: how would you characterize the dominant system that Unilever is 220 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: trying to improve upon with that purpose? Yeah, I think 221 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: this comes back to shareholder capitalism versus stakeholder capitalism. And 222 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: I would love to go to my grave having proven 223 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: two things. I'd first of all, like to prove that 224 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: there is no trade off between responsible, purposeful, sustainable business 225 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: and strong financial performance. Any time we get into discussion 226 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: of well, how do you trade off between the financial 227 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: performance of the company and the sustainability mission that you're on, 228 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: then we're doomed because ultimately the need to deliver returns 229 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: as a business will prevail. And so I want to 230 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: prove that sustainable business is a pathway to better financial performance. 231 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: And the second thing I'd love to prove is that 232 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: we have multiple stakeholders. They're all important, but I think 233 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: there's a priority of sequence. If we look after our people, 234 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: the employees of Unilever, they'll look after the business. They 235 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: will be the people who will make sure that the 236 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: actions we take don't have an adverse effect on the 237 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: planet or society. And in doing so they will ensure 238 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: that our shareholders are are better rewarded. So those are 239 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: the two dominant systems I'd love to have an impact on. 240 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: One is this stakeholder model which ends up rewarding shareholders better. 241 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: And the other is scorching this notion that there's a 242 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: trade off between sustainable business and financial performance. Yeah, I 243 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: love that, And I wonder if you could talk a 244 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: little bit about the compass, which is the name for 245 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: your business strategy. Can you explain what the compass is 246 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: and how it works. Sure. Look, four years ago, we 247 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: had two documents in the company. We had our business 248 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: strategy and we had our sustainability strategy, and we felt 249 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: that didn't make a lot of sense, and so we 250 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: rewrote our business strategy and as five pretty simple elements 251 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: to it, which is some choices that we've made around 252 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: high growth spaces we want to take our portfolio into, 253 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: like hygiene and skincare and prestige beauty. We've called out 254 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: the US, China and India as particularly important markets to 255 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: win in. We've called out e commerce as a must 256 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,199 Speaker 1: win channel, and we've talked about the organization and culture 257 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: that we want to build. But the first of the 258 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 1: first choice is win with our brands as a force 259 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: for good, powered by purpose and innovation. And then dropping 260 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:21,959 Speaker 1: immediately below that are three areas where we think we 261 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: can bring our commitment to sustainable living to life. One 262 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: is improving the health of the planet and others improving 263 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: people's health and well being. And the third is contributing 264 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: to a fair or more socially inclusive world. And again 265 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: underneath that, there are thirty eight specific commitments that we've 266 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: made so that the two sides of the coin, our 267 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 1: sustainability strategy and our business strategy are fully fully integrated. 268 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 1: And are all of Unilever's brands. Do all of them 269 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: have a defined purpose? Or are you somewhere along the 270 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: journey of defining all of those We're on the journey. 271 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: We're on a journey. Let me first will see how 272 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,919 Speaker 1: we define it? Yeah, please, you'll be familiar with the 273 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,439 Speaker 1: idea of continuous tracking, looking at our brands and the 274 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: competitor brands and the attributes and how we score on 275 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: those attributes in the eyes of consumers. Well, we now 276 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: have a standard question and for all categories in all countries, 277 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: where we ask, does this brand make a positive contribution 278 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: to society or the planet. And when in that country 279 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: a consumer scores our brands as well above average on 280 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: an index, then we say, okay, that brand in that 281 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 1: country is a purposeful brand. And at the moment, to 282 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 1: be precise, our turnover now comes from brands that the 283 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: consumer sets are doing something a little bit more for 284 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: society of the planet. Some of our brands are almost 285 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: entirely seen that way, like Dove or Ben and Jerry's 286 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: and others are are finding their way. You can't really 287 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 1: superimpose a purpose. Most of our brand's purposes we find 288 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: by excavating archaeology of their DNA and where they've come from. 289 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: It's very hard to sort of suddenly force fit in 290 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: terms of the journey that you're on. Is the goal 291 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: to be a hundred percent at some point? Yeah, I 292 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: suppose it's an ambition. It happens a little bit organically. 293 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: And the reason I say that is our brands that 294 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: score highly on purpose are growing twice as fast access 295 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: a little as close to three times as fast now 296 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 1: as the rest of the portfolio, and so there's a 297 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: very natural migration of our portfolio into that space. So, yeah, 298 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 1: there will be some brands that never quite get there. 299 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: But so long as you know, six of our brands 300 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: are are scoring highly on purpose and are growing three 301 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: times faster than the rest of the portfolio. Organically, the 302 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: vast majority of our portfolio will soon be seen as 303 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,479 Speaker 1: more purposeful by the consumer. Right. I was listening to 304 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: an interview of you at a recent Goldman Sachs conference 305 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 1: where you said that we found that setting audacious goals 306 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: goals were not sure how we're going to meet is 307 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: a very effective way of driving change in our company, 308 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: and I just wondered if you could talk a little 309 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: bit about that, For instance, how do you set those goals? Yeah, 310 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: probably the easiest way to answer this is not in 311 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: the abstract, but with a specific challenge, which was we 312 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:28,120 Speaker 1: were looking at our decarbonization of the company, and let 313 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 1: me maybe just set it up by saying, we're not 314 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: an n G O TI, We're a business. We're not 315 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: doing this because of the moral imperative. We're doing because 316 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 1: we think it makes us a stronger business with it 317 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 1: will have a more successful long term future. UM and 318 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: there are dimensions of the business case around growth. I've 319 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,360 Speaker 1: touched on. Some of our brands are growing faster when 320 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 1: they embrace sustainability. There's a dimension around cost. We actually 321 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: think it should take cost out the organization. Um it 322 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: lures risk. A planet underwater or on fire is not 323 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: a place to be a consumer products company. But on 324 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 1: this point of cost, there will be a price on carbon. 325 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: So today carbon is treated as a free good and 326 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: there's very few places where there's attacks or a price 327 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: on carbon of any sort. There absolutely will be so 328 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: both because we care about climate change, but also because 329 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: it makes good economic sense to reduce the carbon footprint 330 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: of Unilever. We wanted to lay out our plan to 331 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: decarbonized Unilever, and I suggested to our board that we 332 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: put it to shareholder vote. And this caused a few 333 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: sweaty moments in in our board meeting because we were 334 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: worried that some of our shareholders might say, what, you're 335 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: going far too far, and others might say, well, you're 336 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 1: not going far enough. But we wrote this carbon Transition 337 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: Action Plan and we put it to a shareholder vote 338 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,640 Speaker 1: last May at our a g M. And now, coming 339 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,439 Speaker 1: to actually answer your question, it has some big hairy 340 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,640 Speaker 1: goals in there, one of which is to be net 341 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: zero as a company by twenty nine. Now we've got 342 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: milestones along the way. So for instance, we want reduction 343 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,439 Speaker 1: and scope one and two carbon by we want a 344 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 1: seventy percent reduction in all emissions by but that endpoint 345 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: target and net zero by nine, we have no clue 346 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 1: how we're going to get there, and it will require innovation. 347 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: It will probably require reshaping of our portfolio. It will 348 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: require us to take as much carbon as we can 349 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: out of our operations. It will require us to advocate 350 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: for a decarbonization of electrical grids around the world, because 351 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: the biggest carbon footprint that you on ever has is 352 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: the energy that's used in heating the water that's used 353 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 1: to wash your skin, wash your hair, wash your clothes, 354 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 1: cook your food. That's our single biggest footprints. So and 355 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: only when we've done all that, we will probably need 356 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,239 Speaker 1: to do a little bit of offsetting at the end. 357 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: So that would be an example of where we've set 358 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:56,880 Speaker 1: a goal with no idea how we're going to get there. 359 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 1: But I can tell you most people in the company 360 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: of a feeling that it's the right thing to do, 361 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 1: and that by setting the goog will start taking the 362 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: actions that we need to take. I love that the 363 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 1: thing that I think that's really interesting about that is 364 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:15,679 Speaker 1: that in traditional shareholder capitalism, companies have been conditioned to 365 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: externalize cost. It would be rare of a company, i think, 366 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 1: to actually think about the carbon footprint of heating the 367 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: water that people use to bathe as a part of 368 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,719 Speaker 1: your responsibility. It's really inspiring that you think about it 369 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: that way. Well, two footnotes. We were the first company 370 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,239 Speaker 1: in the world to put our carbon transition plan, our 371 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 1: climate Transition Action Plan to shareholder vote. Many have now followed, 372 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 1: so we're delighted to see many people now writing their plans. 373 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: And the second footnote is that it squeaked through the 374 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: shareholder vote with six shareholder support. And actually that's a 375 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: great statistics to understand that the capital markets are starting 376 00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: to care about these types of matters. Absolutely, that's really positive. 377 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: You've already made tremendous strides as a company over the 378 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:11,199 Speaker 1: last decade, and as you look at the challenges that 379 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: lie ahead, the things that you want to take on. 380 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 1: What are those challenges. Well, there are lots of problems 381 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,719 Speaker 1: in the world right now, but our view is that 382 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: there are three that are bigger than the rest. The 383 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: first is the climate emergency that the impact of climate 384 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: change on everything is hard to overstate. It's going to 385 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: be a major major problem for the world. Even if 386 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,439 Speaker 1: we do the best possible job that we can and 387 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: managed to get to one and a half degrees above 388 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: pre industrial levels, it's still going to cause a major 389 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: failure of the world food system. It's going to cause 390 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 1: massive migration from hard hit areas, so we better be 391 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: dealing with that. The second, and it's related as a 392 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: degradation and loss of nature combination of climate change and 393 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 1: us chopping down large swathes of for us putting in 394 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: monocrop agriculture, smashing by diversity. And then the third is 395 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: the dramatic increases in inequality that we're seeing country by country. Interestingly, 396 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: because China has lifted hundreds of millions of people out 397 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: of poverty, net inequality in the world is not going up, 398 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 1: but if you look at it on a country by 399 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 1: country level, the tremendous situation inequality and it's getting worse. 400 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: And those are three of the things that we hope 401 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 1: our business can play a role in addressing. A lot 402 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: of what Unilever uses as input materials are agricultural raw materials, 403 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: not just in our foods business, but much of what 404 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 1: we use in our personal care products like soap uses 405 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: agricultural raw materials. And what what we've said is that 406 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: by twenty thirty we want a hundred percent of our 407 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,439 Speaker 1: agricultural raw materials to come from regenerative agriculture, where the 408 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: farming practices leave the land in better place. Let me 409 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 1: give you a really simple example. We buy soybean oil 410 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,959 Speaker 1: that's grown in the US and uh, a soy field 411 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:16,120 Speaker 1: generates abouts of carbon par acre. If you plant cover crops, 412 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: so low rise plants that can be harvested in amongst 413 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: the soy that's being farmed, that reduces the carbon output 414 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: of that acre by five kilograms, So it goes from 415 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: three of carbon emissions to a hundred and fifty ms 416 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 1: of carbon sequestration. That would be an example of regenerative 417 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:44,120 Speaker 1: agricultural practices. We can maybe have a chat about palm oils, 418 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: material we use a lot of and it's a demonized material, 419 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: but actually I'd like to make the case for palm 420 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: oil at some point. Yeah, well, let's let's talk about 421 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: that now. I no palm oil was mentioned in the 422 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: context of the history of Unilever in the Congo, so 423 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: it's long been an ingredient in many of your products. 424 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: Where does UNI ever stand with palm oil today? Yeah, 425 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,439 Speaker 1: there have been horrible things done to nature and the 426 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,919 Speaker 1: animals that live in virgin forests through the clearing of 427 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 1: forests to grow palma. It's shocking. Actually, if you fly 428 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: over parts of Malaysia, you can see these huge parts 429 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,120 Speaker 1: of the country that have just been cleared and replaced 430 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:31,120 Speaker 1: by palm plantations. However, palm is an exceptionally productive material, 431 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: and if you were to try and replace the palm 432 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,120 Speaker 1: oil that is used to make actually some very healthy 433 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: foods and a lot of things like soap and other 434 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:44,120 Speaker 1: types of surfactants with rape seed or soy, it would 435 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: require eight times the acreage. So here's our view, where 436 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 1: are we to shift away from palm? We would end 437 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: up destroying large parts of the world with crops that 438 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,719 Speaker 1: need more acreage. And there is perfectly sustainable ways of 439 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: growing palm right now where you use much less fertilizer, 440 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: where you don't clear virgin land. Instead of using pesticides, 441 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,880 Speaker 1: we introduced owls onto the palm plantations, and the owls 442 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: keep the rodent population down, which is a sort of 443 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: romantic notion. But what Interestingly, what it requires is technology. 444 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: It needs real time geo mapping coupled with cell phone 445 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: tracking of truck drivers, coupled with some advanced AI technology. 446 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 1: And we are very confident now that something like of 447 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: our palm comes from certifiably sustainable planting. That last two 448 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: or that last one or two percent is we're working hard, 449 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: spending a lot of money on figuring out how do 450 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: we get that out of our supply chain. So I 451 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: touched a bit there on um the climate crisis and 452 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: some of the things we're doing, some of things we're 453 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: doing on nature and the degradation of nature. And we've 454 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: got a lot of programs running. But I think one 455 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: that we're very proud of is there's a concept of 456 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: a fair living wage. It's more than a minimum wage. 457 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: It's enough money that a family of four could feed, clothes, house, 458 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 1: educate and transport themselves. And Unilever, of course pays a 459 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: fair living wage already to anyone working in our business. 460 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 1: But that's only a hundred and fifty thou people. There's 461 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 1: about five million people in our supply chain. And what 462 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: we've said is that by t anyone who's not able 463 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: to prove they're paying a fair living wage to their 464 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: employees will not be a supplier to Unilever, and that 465 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,719 Speaker 1: we think is the single biggest redistributive action that we 466 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: can take to try and address inequality through our own operations. 467 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: I love that once again, just most businesses don't think 468 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: about the world that way. And obviously I agree with you. 469 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: Like the fact that you're getting ahead of it is great, 470 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: but you're getting ahead of it because it's better business 471 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: that are ultimately operating in an unsustainable manner. Put the 472 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: time horizon on your survival essentially as a company. Yeah, 473 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: you know, we've got a pretty good feel for what 474 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: that time horizon is and it's because of different attitudes 475 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: amongst different age cohorts in society. Yes, so baby boomers 476 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: at least are honest. They don't really claim that they 477 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: change their brand choices according to sustainability considerations. I I 478 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: just creep into gen X and we're worse. We say 479 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 1: that we care about sustainability, but don't actually modify our 480 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: purchasing behavior, So we're dishonest. Gen Y millennials to make 481 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: gross simplifications, Millennials care about sustainability but are not prepared 482 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 1: to pay more and won't accept it if the product 483 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: performs more poorly as a consequence, jensennials the kind of 484 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: next generation consummate cup coming into the consumption classes. Practically 485 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: the only thing driving and choice is the values of 486 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: the brand and the values of the company behind the brand. 487 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: And so this is simply about relevance for the future. 488 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: And if you want to be a brand that's still 489 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: a company, that's still a healthy, successful, thriving company ten 490 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: twenty thirty years from now, you better be modifying your 491 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: business practices in a way that are acceptable to the 492 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: gen's annials that are coming through the population right now. 493 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: It's so important. In fact, we're called calling bullshit because 494 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: such a huge number of young people in particular are 495 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: just calling BS on shareholder capitalism. Um. The entire generation 496 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: of consumers is calling BS. And it's a clarion call. 497 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: Right If you want to run a business, if you 498 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: want to sell a product in the future, you had 499 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: better pay attention to this. So I could not agree more. 500 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: And and when I get challenged about, hey, why are 501 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: you so obsessed to putting purpose in your brands? You 502 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: know you some sort of woke capitalist, the answer is hell, no, 503 00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: I just want to make sure that our brands remain 504 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: real event for the generations that are coming through into 505 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: society today. Yeah, exactly. Okay, So I'd love to pivot 506 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,239 Speaker 1: again and talk a little bit about your leadership and 507 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: purpose led business. One of the things that I really 508 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: believe is that no company is is perfect, That being 509 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: purpose led is a journey, right, and and every company 510 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: is somewhere along that timeline. First of all, do you 511 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: agree with that? You know, I mentioned earlier that we've 512 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: we've got these thirty eight specific targets and commitments that 513 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: sit in our compass. Our executive team looks at progress 514 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 1: on those every quarter, and in the last review, which 515 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: was a couple of weeks ago, all of those thirty 516 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: eight six were green, most of the rest were read. 517 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: And so so we are a massively a work in progress. 518 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: And yeah, I guess it goes with setting somewhat stretching ambitions. 519 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: But we've got so much hard work ahead of is 520 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 1: it's a little daunting that last two of palm oil 521 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: that we're not sure is sustainable. It's going to take 522 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: tons of heart. We're gonna have to co invent technology 523 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: with Microsoft to fix that. I'll tell you one that's 524 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: really haunting me at the moment is our plastics commitment. 525 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: We've said that by which is just around the corner, 526 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: we will have reduced our use of virgin plastic by 527 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 1: by using recycled material and sums through an absolute reduction 528 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: or replacement with other materials like aluminium or would even 529 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: can you believe wouldn't there you go? So I'm kind 530 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: of trembling knees about this plastic commitment because there's a 531 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: worldwide shortage of recycled plastic. The premium for recycled plastic 532 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: over virgin material, perversely is rising. And so that's an 533 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: example where tie we've got our work cut out. I'm 534 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: not exactly sure how we'll get there, but we're very 535 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,480 Speaker 1: much a work in progress. So that that leads to 536 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: another question, which is do you think that leading a 537 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: purpose led business is harder? For instance, you have so 538 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,880 Speaker 1: many more stakeholders to think about, then the CEO of 539 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: a traditional shareholder led business, is it is the job harder? 540 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,840 Speaker 1: I don't think so. Really, No, tell me a business 541 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: leader who doesn't care about her employees, her customers, are consumers, 542 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,799 Speaker 1: her business partners, societies that you're doing business and the 543 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 1: planet and I think I'll be able to show you 544 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 1: a business leader that's not getting good results, so it 545 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: doesn't deserve to get good results. So it's not unnatural 546 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 1: to care for those different stakeholders and make sure their 547 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: interests are being looked after. And if you do it 548 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: with deep conviction that the shareholder will be better rewarded 549 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,800 Speaker 1: at the end of the day. Now, we're also working 550 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: progress on that. By the way, our financial performance needs 551 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,359 Speaker 1: to step up to prove this model. But we've we've 552 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: got a little bit of momentum. We've just did our 553 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,399 Speaker 1: fastest year of growth for nine years. Yeah, you've done 554 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,280 Speaker 1: well in the US here, things are, things are coming along. 555 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: We have a theory of change, a model that we 556 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 1: use on pretty much all the big issues that we're 557 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 1: trying to address, whether that's climate or our gender or inequality. 558 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,399 Speaker 1: Let me use gender as an example. Think of four 559 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:23,240 Speaker 1: concentric rings, and that the innermost ring is our own operations. 560 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 1: So my job one is to make sure that there's 561 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: proper gender representation inside Unilever. And we've gone over the 562 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: last eight years from a position where thirty eight percent 563 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: of our managers were women to now of our managers 564 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: are women. That we've got nine non execs on our board, 565 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 1: five women, four men, so we're okay on that. Then 566 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,479 Speaker 1: the next ring is what we call our value chain. 567 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: Are we making sure that there's good gender representation in 568 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 1: our suppliers, in our distributors, and in some of the 569 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 1: business models that we involve third parties in. That's the 570 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: next impact that we can have. Then we go to 571 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 1: the next level when we think about the impact that 572 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,840 Speaker 1: our brands can have. We go from reaching millions of 573 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 1: people to tens of millions of people. When Dove gets 574 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: busy helping girls not carry unrealistic images of beauty, or 575 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: when sunset, it's creating opportunities for women to set up 576 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: their own hair salons. And then the outer most ring 577 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 1: is what we call advocacy, and that's where partnerships come 578 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 1: in and we work with civil society, government, academia to 579 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: try and change the system. And I think those first 580 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 1: three rings most business leaders have to deal with. We 581 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 1: have an unusually active advocacy program and that is a 582 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: little bit of extra work. In fact, I just came 583 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,880 Speaker 1: from a board meeting of the World Business Council for 584 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: Sustainable Development. But you know what, it's very rewarding and 585 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,799 Speaker 1: worthwhile work. So it's a little bit of extra work, 586 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,360 Speaker 1: but not really, but you love it. Yeah, it's satisfying, 587 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:59,840 Speaker 1: feeds the soul. So are there other leaders of purpose 588 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: had businesses that particularly inspire you? Oh? Lots, yes, lots 589 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:09,800 Speaker 1: and lots. To me, the iconic one is Patagonia, and 590 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 1: you know of Asinar and everything that he has set 591 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,959 Speaker 1: up there and which has been carried on by his successors. 592 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 1: And there's a survey comes out every year of opinion 593 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,719 Speaker 1: leaders and their views on companies and whether sustainabilities at 594 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: the heart of their strategy. I'm embarrassed by the fact 595 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:26,919 Speaker 1: that you don Leaver just for the last few years 596 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 1: scored number one in Patagonia number two, because I don't 597 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,040 Speaker 1: think we deserve it at all compared with the deep 598 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: Remember if are discontinued his his metal petons, which was 599 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: the core product in his business, because he felt they 600 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,399 Speaker 1: were damaging the very rock that he was so lovely. 601 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 1: We're leaving him stuck in the rock, and he exactly. 602 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,280 Speaker 1: So I really admire almost everything that they keep reinventing themselves. 603 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,319 Speaker 1: You're making fleeces out of PT bottles, encouraging people not 604 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: to buy a new jacket, come and get it repaired. 605 00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: Their sourcing policies and they're just fantastic. Another one is, yes, 606 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: we're broadened. Who runs Ikea? Ikea have done such deep 607 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: work on understanding the climate and social footprint or so 608 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: the planetary and social footprint of their business, their supply chain, 609 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: their stores. And I'll give you one more um that 610 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 1: you may never have heard of. A food company that 611 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,319 Speaker 1: grows fruit and vegetables around the world called Alam. They 612 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 1: were founded by a guy called Sonny Vergas. Sonny lives 613 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: in Singapore, and he has built one of the world's 614 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:37,840 Speaker 1: leading agricultural production companies, and he's done it with extraordinary 615 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:42,319 Speaker 1: attention to purpose and sustainability. So there's one, and then, 616 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 1: of course there's a whole lot of other lists, but 617 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,839 Speaker 1: there's three that I particularly admire. Today there are so 618 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 1: many more purpose led businesses that actually started with a purpose. 619 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: So a lot of young companies begin that way, but 620 00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,360 Speaker 1: a lot of older companies sounds like unlike Unilever, didn't 621 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 1: begin that way and are now trying to figure out 622 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 1: how to make that transition. What advice would you have 623 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 1: for other CEOs who are beginning that purpose of the journey. 624 00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,279 Speaker 1: The first point I would make is entirely predictable, which is, 625 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: unless you're crystal clear in your mind why it makes 626 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: you a better business, how it will drive stronger performance, 627 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 1: don't start the journey because this is not CSR. This 628 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,799 Speaker 1: is not some offset where you can buy a clean 629 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 1: conscience by donating to a charity or or having a 630 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,400 Speaker 1: park made a part built next to your headquarters. Unless 631 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 1: it sits at the heart of your business model, driving 632 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:47,440 Speaker 1: revenue growth, taking out cost, improving your employee proposition, don't 633 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 1: do it because then it's not sustainable. And the second 634 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,720 Speaker 1: is you don't have to go from zero to perfect, 635 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 1: just get started with a few inistas. And it's so 636 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 1: rewarding economically and emotionally. It's such a strong thing to 637 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 1: build a company culture around that. I believe it will 638 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 1: snowball and catch momentum. And you know, it has to 639 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: be authentic, but it doesn't have to be perfect. Let's 640 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: use that as a pivot too, company culture, because it's 641 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,320 Speaker 1: such a huge part of it. How would you describe 642 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,280 Speaker 1: the Unilever company culture? We want our company to be human, 643 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 1: to be purposeful, and to be accountable. You don't even 644 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 1: does have a culture where we treat each other with respect. 645 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,840 Speaker 1: If you get the job done, but you're an asshole 646 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: and you leave a kind of a trail of people 647 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 1: who would love to need afterwards, right exactly, then I 648 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 1: think our company would tissue reject you like a badly 649 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 1: matched Oregon quicker than the average company. So being human 650 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 1: and with that comes you know a lot of friendships. 651 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,280 Speaker 1: Not too hierarchical. I mean every company is get some hierarchic. 652 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 1: We're not too hierarchical. Um, So that's the human The 653 00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: second is purposeful. We believe that, Um, this is a 654 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 1: bit slogany, but we do believe that brands with purpose growth, 655 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,280 Speaker 1: that companies with purpose last, and that people with purpose thrive. 656 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,799 Speaker 1: And we've putting out fifty thou people through purpose workshops 657 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,080 Speaker 1: to try and understand is the thing that makes them 658 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 1: take well aligned with the work that they're doing it 659 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,600 Speaker 1: you'll leave. And when people find that alignment, my goodness, 660 00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 1: it cements their commitment to the company that you can 661 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 1: see job satisfaction scores that are through the roof. And 662 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 1: so that's the purposeful part of our culture, more human, 663 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 1: more purposeful. And then the accountable bit is we want 664 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,719 Speaker 1: people who are prepared to take risks. We want people 665 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 1: who are prepared to have a go for people who 666 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,280 Speaker 1: understand that, you know, poor performance plus a good excuse 667 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,640 Speaker 1: is still poor performance. And and those are the kind 668 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 1: of three ways we describe our culture. I think it's 669 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:53,640 Speaker 1: one thing it doesn't capture, which is we are extraordinarily international. 670 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,239 Speaker 1: There is no dominant nationality in our business. And I 671 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 1: love that. I'm sort of looking out my office here 672 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,319 Speaker 1: and I can see a melting pot of different nationalities. 673 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,680 Speaker 1: And typically a French company would be full of French people, 674 00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,280 Speaker 1: and American company full of Americans and so on. Truly global. 675 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 1: And are there certain things that you look for in 676 00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 1: a new employee? Is there a Unilever type? Over the 677 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 1: years I've been trained on all these different competency frameworks 678 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,560 Speaker 1: and what to look for a reference to that have 679 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,520 Speaker 1: stuck with me. One is very simple. It's that people 680 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,440 Speaker 1: are successful in our company tend to be strong masters 681 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,720 Speaker 1: of their inner game, so that they're very self aware, 682 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,399 Speaker 1: they control their emotions reasonably well, and they operate out 683 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 1: of a sense of service and purpose. And that is 684 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,600 Speaker 1: a precursor to mastering your outer game, which is your 685 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 1: expressed leadership, your drive for business performance, your passion for 686 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,919 Speaker 1: consumers and customers. I think it's an interesting concept that 687 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,040 Speaker 1: you have an inner game in an outer game and 688 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 1: both need to be performing at a high level for 689 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,520 Speaker 1: for someone to do well. The simple kind of Alan 690 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,759 Speaker 1: Joke criteria after thirty odd years of kindiring people is 691 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,160 Speaker 1: I want people who are are smart. Uh, got a 692 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,480 Speaker 1: bit of EQ and a bit of i Q. Who 693 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,239 Speaker 1: are quite driven. They've got they can show that they 694 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,439 Speaker 1: get around obstacles. And the third is that they're nice, 695 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,080 Speaker 1: kind people that other people want to be around. And 696 00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,120 Speaker 1: I could just think of my kind of leadership team. 697 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 1: They are all bright, they are all driven, and they 698 00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,319 Speaker 1: are all someone you'd want to appear with. Yeah. Yeah. 699 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,520 Speaker 1: One of the criteria I use is if I were 700 00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:36,120 Speaker 1: stuck in an airport with this person for an unexpectedly 701 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,040 Speaker 1: long period of time, would that be a good thing 702 00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:43,120 Speaker 1: or a bad thing? Exactly? Uh. One of the things 703 00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,279 Speaker 1: that you touched on that I'd love to just talk 704 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:51,560 Speaker 1: about a little bit more is talent and the effect 705 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:55,719 Speaker 1: that being purpose lad has on your ability to attract talent. Yeah. 706 00:43:55,960 --> 00:44:02,160 Speaker 1: We measure our attractive us as an employer for undergrads 707 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,600 Speaker 1: coming out of university in h forty four countries around 708 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:11,360 Speaker 1: the world. In forty two of them were the employer 709 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,000 Speaker 1: of choice in our sector, and ten years ago that 710 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:19,239 Speaker 1: was seventeen. So we have no problem attracting really high 711 00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,960 Speaker 1: quality graduates coming out of university. In fact, we get 712 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,839 Speaker 1: two million job applications a year across the company. But 713 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 1: I think what's maybe more interesting is we've been able 714 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:34,920 Speaker 1: to attract some really senior executives and indeed board members 715 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,319 Speaker 1: who would have a pick of the places they could work. 716 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,759 Speaker 1: And the universal reason is because they want to understand 717 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,239 Speaker 1: or be part of a company um that is operating 718 00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,000 Speaker 1: in a responsible fashion. Whether you call it purposeful or 719 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,840 Speaker 1: responsible or sustainable, it's the same threat that is acting 720 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,120 Speaker 1: and to attract senior and junior folks, and we've got 721 00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:58,840 Speaker 1: really hard data on this guy. I was surprised to 722 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 1: hear that we're the third most followed company on the 723 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,960 Speaker 1: world on LinkedIn, after Apple and Google. You know, a 724 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,719 Speaker 1: sleepy old soap maker. Not bad, very cool. Okay, I 725 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:11,919 Speaker 1: have a couple of questions that I want to ask 726 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,480 Speaker 1: you to wrap up. I'm just curious about this. You've 727 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,760 Speaker 1: acquired a number of certified B corps over the years, 728 00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,960 Speaker 1: I think seven or eight of them, and I just 729 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,279 Speaker 1: wondered if there were any plans to become a B 730 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,759 Speaker 1: corp at the group level. Yeah, we've studied this at 731 00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:32,280 Speaker 1: least twice that I know of, in in excruciatingly detail. 732 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:36,160 Speaker 1: BE corps certification is not designed for enterprises the skill 733 00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:40,319 Speaker 1: of Unilever. We would need to create an entire industry 734 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:44,480 Speaker 1: of certification around the company, every operation in a hundred 735 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:49,879 Speaker 1: and ninety countries, multiple divisions, multiple brands, and it would 736 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:54,560 Speaker 1: cost an absolute fortune. And it is It is doable. 737 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 1: It's just about doable. I would love for you Deliver 738 00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:00,279 Speaker 1: to be a B corp. But the bragging right, so 739 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:04,280 Speaker 1: becoming a B carp are not commensurate with the cost 740 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,640 Speaker 1: an effort that would be required to achieve that certification. Yeah, 741 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:12,640 Speaker 1: now that completely resonate. Okay, so two questions to wrap up. 742 00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:15,480 Speaker 1: First of all, what have I not asked you about 743 00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:18,799 Speaker 1: that you think that our listeners should know about you 744 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,239 Speaker 1: or about you know Leaver? You know I asked you know. 745 00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,279 Speaker 1: The share price has been languishing a little bit for 746 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:27,719 Speaker 1: the last couple of years, and I I think, in 747 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:32,640 Speaker 1: the spirit of the name of the podcast, all these 748 00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,440 Speaker 1: all these fine words that I've been saying about all 749 00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,720 Speaker 1: the wonderful things that we're doing in the world, Well, 750 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,279 Speaker 1: why you know, shouldn't it be more visible in the 751 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,920 Speaker 1: share price? That's the that's the really sting or tough question. 752 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,600 Speaker 1: And the short answer is we've surprised the stock market 753 00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:52,319 Speaker 1: three times in the last three years. We under undergrew 754 00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:54,520 Speaker 1: what we said we would do in two thousand nineteen. 755 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,640 Speaker 1: So in December two thousand nineteen we announced the sales 756 00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,279 Speaker 1: warning and that called the market off guard. In the 757 00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:04,200 Speaker 1: first year of COVID twenty are operating margin went backwards 758 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,879 Speaker 1: by sixty basis points when the market wasn't expecting it. 759 00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:09,560 Speaker 1: And then the third one, I think is a little harsh. 760 00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,200 Speaker 1: We were the first company at the gate um to 761 00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,680 Speaker 1: call attention to inflationary pressures that were coming in mid 762 00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,960 Speaker 1: twenty and so we are well exactly, but the one 763 00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:26,120 Speaker 1: day dropping our share price on those three days explains 764 00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,120 Speaker 1: the entire discount to our sector and what it says. 765 00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,320 Speaker 1: It's great to be sustainable, what's great to a super 766 00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,440 Speaker 1: year of growth last year, but in our particular sector, 767 00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:40,320 Speaker 1: the sort of predictability and reliability of performance really matters 768 00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,160 Speaker 1: as well, and there's I make no excuse for that. 769 00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,680 Speaker 1: There's no reason why UNI leavers shouldn't deliver what we 770 00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:49,440 Speaker 1: call four G growth, which is consistent growth, competitive growth, 771 00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:53,160 Speaker 1: profitable growth, and responsible growth. And that's still in the 772 00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,560 Speaker 1: to do list. And just to follow up to that, 773 00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,879 Speaker 1: you discontinued quarterly reporting a while ago, a decade ago. 774 00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,359 Speaker 1: Does that help or or hurt? Yeah? When we say 775 00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:08,240 Speaker 1: we dis continued quarterly reporting, kind of so we still 776 00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:13,600 Speaker 1: report our top line and our growth every quarter, and 777 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,360 Speaker 1: we report our fool p and now the bottom line 778 00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,839 Speaker 1: semi annually, so at the mid year. So really what 779 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:24,160 Speaker 1: we stopped doing was reporting profits at the end of 780 00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:27,440 Speaker 1: Q one and the end of Q three. And I 781 00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:31,400 Speaker 1: would say it's materially helpful. It gives us flexibility to 782 00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:35,000 Speaker 1: invest in the business within a half rather than constrained 783 00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,560 Speaker 1: by the particular phasing that a quarter would demand. I 784 00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:40,239 Speaker 1: think it's a good thing, but it's not all the 785 00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,200 Speaker 1: way to you know, we abandoned quarterly reporting, I don't 786 00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,160 Speaker 1: think right. Okay, now, thank you for the clarification on that. 787 00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:52,120 Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Okay, Allen on calling bs UM, we 788 00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,080 Speaker 1: have a question that we ask every guest So we 789 00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:59,960 Speaker 1: define BS as the gap between word indeed in the organization, 790 00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,640 Speaker 1: and we have a tool that we call the BS 791 00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:07,439 Speaker 1: scale where we rate organizations on that gap, zero being 792 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,520 Speaker 1: the best zero gap between word indeed and a hundred 793 00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:15,600 Speaker 1: being the worst total bullshit. So, taking into consideration that 794 00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:19,440 Speaker 1: everything is a journey, where would you rate Unilever on 795 00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:24,040 Speaker 1: that scale today? That's interesting. So if it was the 796 00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:28,279 Speaker 1: gap between ambition and where we are today, uh, then 797 00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,960 Speaker 1: it's a high number. It's a high numbers, you know, sixty. 798 00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,799 Speaker 1: If it's the gap between what we say and what 799 00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,719 Speaker 1: we're really doing in the company, then it's quite a 800 00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:40,239 Speaker 1: low number because we are very transparent. No, I think 801 00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:42,759 Speaker 1: it's the latter. I think it's gap between what you 802 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,680 Speaker 1: say you stand for and where what your intention truly is. 803 00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:49,759 Speaker 1: Then I would say, I think we are quite transparent, 804 00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:53,000 Speaker 1: and we report a lot, and there's not a huge 805 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:54,560 Speaker 1: gap between what we say we're doing and what we 806 00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,400 Speaker 1: really are doing. So I'd give us, but there's obviously 807 00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,920 Speaker 1: some so I'd say, I don't know, live and in 808 00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,120 Speaker 1: a in a company of your scale, I just have 809 00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:08,600 Speaker 1: to say, I think that's extraordinarily low. So I'm very 810 00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,799 Speaker 1: inspired by what you're doing, and I want to thank 811 00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:13,840 Speaker 1: you for being on the show today. This has been great. 812 00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,400 Speaker 1: Does that mean you're not going to wrap up by 813 00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:21,040 Speaker 1: saying you're fool of sh it? Nope, you're off the hook, 814 00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,120 Speaker 1: not full of ship not but not on our scale. Okay, 815 00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,200 Speaker 1: not on our scale. Well, it's uh been a while 816 00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,000 Speaker 1: since we saw each other. Thank you very much for 817 00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,520 Speaker 1: having me on, and uh maybe we can follow it 818 00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:35,360 Speaker 1: up sometime and me meanwhile, look forward to that beer together. 819 00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:39,359 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. I'd like to end the show 820 00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:42,440 Speaker 1: today by giving you a lever our official BS score. 821 00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:46,360 Speaker 1: Our scale goes from zero to a hundred. A zero 822 00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:50,240 Speaker 1: means zero gap between word and deed, and a hundred 823 00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:55,040 Speaker 1: means the gap is huge. Total BS Alan gave you 824 00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:58,520 Speaker 1: a lever between a twenty and five. Based on what 825 00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,080 Speaker 1: I've heard today, I'm going to agree and give him 826 00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,160 Speaker 1: a twenty. I see all kinds of promising signs that 827 00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:08,960 Speaker 1: this company is really trying, starting with leadership. The sheer 828 00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,600 Speaker 1: size of this company makes it much harder to live 829 00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,160 Speaker 1: up to their purpose, but it also means that when 830 00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:18,200 Speaker 1: they do meet their ambitious goals, the impacts are huge. 831 00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:23,279 Speaker 1: Alan is clearly passionate about getting things right, and his 832 00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:28,480 Speaker 1: enthusiasm informs every aspect of the business, driving real change. 833 00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:32,400 Speaker 1: The company is also quick to admit when it falls short, 834 00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:36,760 Speaker 1: and they're willing to acknowledge the problematic areas of their history, 835 00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:40,400 Speaker 1: which is why as time passes, I expect their score 836 00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:45,239 Speaker 1: to actually go down. But Alan's retirement announcement comes at 837 00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:48,520 Speaker 1: a time when the company is under intense pressure to 838 00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:52,560 Speaker 1: focus on short term financial results rather than on the 839 00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:57,239 Speaker 1: long term goal of building a sustainable global company. While 840 00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:00,680 Speaker 1: he's still at the helm, Alan is using unili purpose 841 00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,880 Speaker 1: to steer the ship, but we'll be keeping a close 842 00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:08,719 Speaker 1: eye on what happens once leadership actually changes. To weigh 843 00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:12,120 Speaker 1: in with your thoughts, visit our website Calling Bullshit Podcast 844 00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:14,160 Speaker 1: dot com. You'll be able to see where you know 845 00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,040 Speaker 1: leave our ranks on BS compared to the other companies 846 00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:20,560 Speaker 1: and organizations we feature on the show. And if you're 847 00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,640 Speaker 1: starting a purpose led business or you're thinking about beginning 848 00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:26,640 Speaker 1: the journey of transformation to become one, here are three 849 00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:33,000 Speaker 1: things that you can take away from this episode. One 850 00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:38,400 Speaker 1: set ambitious goals. As Alan pointed out, it's by setting 851 00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:42,320 Speaker 1: goals that at first seemed unachievable that real change happens 852 00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:46,479 Speaker 1: in an organization. The goal keeping him awake right now 853 00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:49,960 Speaker 1: is cutting the use of plastics by in one of 854 00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:55,920 Speaker 1: the largest package goods companies in the world. So what's yours? Two? 855 00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,920 Speaker 1: Your business strategy and your purpose are not separate things. 856 00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,560 Speaker 1: There are two aspects of one thing. The problem in 857 00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:08,440 Speaker 1: the world that you exist to solve. Your purpose is why. 858 00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:12,480 Speaker 1: Your business strategy is how, and when you get it right, 859 00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:19,040 Speaker 1: profitability is a natural outcome. Three. There is a timer 860 00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:22,000 Speaker 1: taking on businesses that don't make the shift to being 861 00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:26,000 Speaker 1: purpose led, and it's going off in about ten years, 862 00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:31,600 Speaker 1: maybe even less than that. Why Gen's annuals, they're voting 863 00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:33,880 Speaker 1: with their wallets for companies that are trying to solve 864 00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,399 Speaker 1: some of the big problems in the world. They will 865 00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:41,840 Speaker 1: decide what businesses thrive and what businesses fail in the future. 866 00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:46,439 Speaker 1: Don't wait to establish a relationship with them. Start now. 867 00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:53,920 Speaker 1: And if you had fun on this trip across the universe, 868 00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,319 Speaker 1: subscribe to the Calling Bullshit podcast on the I Heart 869 00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:01,840 Speaker 1: radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to people 870 00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:06,080 Speaker 1: speaking to your ears. And thanks to our production team, 871 00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:12,240 Speaker 1: Hannah Beal, Amanda Ginsburg Andy kim D s Moss, Hayley Pascalites, 872 00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:17,720 Speaker 1: Parker Silzer, Basil Soaper and me Jean Zulu. Calling Bullshit 873 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,920 Speaker 1: was created by co Collective and is hosted by Me 874 00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:23,360 Speaker 1: Time Monte You thanks for listening.