Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2: Women have gathered across South Africa to protest the high
Speaker 2: level of gender based violence in the country.
Speaker 3: GBV is literally a national disaster in our country. It's
Speaker 3: something that is unfortunately very close.
Speaker 4: To my heart.
Speaker 2: South Africa has one of the world's highest female murder rates,
Speaker 2: more than five times the world average.
Speaker 3: The silence four fifteen minutes is a minute of silence
Speaker 3: for every woman that would have fallen within the day.
Speaker 2: On today's episode of The Next Africa Podcast, we'll look
Speaker 2: at South Africa's gender based violence crisis, how the G
Speaker 2: twenty has put this issue into the spotlight, and how
Speaker 2: the government is starting to recognize the scale of the issue.
Speaker 2: I'm ta Ada Bio in for Jennifer's Abazar and this
Speaker 2: is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you one story each
Speaker 2: week from the continent driving the future of global growth
Speaker 2: with the context only Bloomberg can provide. Joining me this
Speaker 2: week is our government reporters. Then be Ley Seller stem Bye,
Speaker 2: Thanks very much for joining me.
Speaker 4: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: So. While the world was looking at South Africa for
Speaker 2: the G twenty campaign, groups seems to want to put
Speaker 2: violence against women back on the agenda. What do we
Speaker 2: know about how serious this issue is in South Africa.
Speaker 1: It is safe to say that it's the biggest crisis
Speaker 1: outside of that of the economy. Would even make the
Speaker 1: argument that there's a link between the two. Women in
Speaker 1: South Africa are killed five times higher than the global average,
Speaker 1: and more often than not, it's by people that they know,
Speaker 1: men that are intimate partners to them.
Speaker 4: Just in twenty twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1: During that period of COVID, we had three women that
Speaker 1: were killed every day by an intimate partner.
Speaker 4: But it's also a woman who walk into.
Speaker 1: A post office, the case of a student in twenty
Speaker 1: nineteen winning in Poitiana who walked into.
Speaker 4: A post office.
Speaker 1: She was taken by one of the post office officials.
Speaker 1: She was raped and brucidly murdered. And that's just one
Speaker 1: of many stories that every now and then come up
Speaker 1: in the media strongly, and they do come to the
Speaker 1: fore when media plays attention when there's a very kind
Speaker 1: of horrific incident that stands out, But it's something that
Speaker 1: happens on a day to day basis, and so there's
Speaker 1: absolutely no question that there is a war on women
Speaker 1: in this country.
Speaker 4: And it is a very serious crisis that we're facing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And on that point of media attention, of course,
Speaker 2: there was a lot of media attention on South Africa
Speaker 2: for the G twenty. I was very struck by the
Speaker 2: location chosen for some of these protests at the Union
Speaker 2: Lawns in Pretorian, the seat of government, also fifteen other
Speaker 2: locations across the country. Obviously the eyes of the world
Speaker 2: were on South Africa at that point. Just how much
Speaker 2: pressure do you think government leaders were under to kind
Speaker 2: of put this situation to bed or be seen to
Speaker 2: do something.
Speaker 1: Look, I think it's something that's we see at all
Speaker 1: D twenty meetings across the globe wherever there are where
Speaker 1: different kind of advocacy and lobby groups use the opportunity
Speaker 1: to essentially air the dirty laundry of what's happening at home,
Speaker 1: to try and get an ear from the rest of
Speaker 1: the world and to put pressure on their leaders to
Speaker 1: do something about it. So in this case was absolutely
Speaker 1: no difference. In addition to these kind of gender based
Speaker 1: violence protests that we saw, there was a myriad of
Speaker 1: others as well. But I think it was a very
Speaker 1: careful move to kind of distance the meetings itself the
Speaker 1: leadership summat where the world leaders were meeting, away from
Speaker 1: where these protests were actually happening, and so the datus
Speaker 1: to whether or not they were actually ever seen by
Speaker 1: the world. Nevertheless, it was a platform that was taken
Speaker 1: up quite strongly by hundreds, if not thousands of women
Speaker 1: across the country, particularly in city centers where they staged
Speaker 1: this lie down protests, for they were all dressed in black,
Speaker 1: lying down on the floor. There was also encouragement for
Speaker 1: women to not buy anything on the day to demonstrate
Speaker 1: the kind of economic power that they wield as well.
Speaker 1: All of this to send us and we're in a crisis.
Speaker 1: We need to help somebody do something about it.
Speaker 2: Talking about that time there, it's definitely something that was
Speaker 2: on the mind of the organizers. I actually spoke to
Speaker 2: one of them, Merley's Age Joe Gat from Women for Change,
Speaker 2: that's one of the organizations the NGOs that were responsible
Speaker 2: for these protests, and she told me a bit about
Speaker 2: why they chose this moment in particular to take action.
Speaker 3: We chose to use the G twenty weekend for the
Speaker 3: national shutdown because we knew that international eyes would be
Speaker 3: on South Africa in this time, it was important for
Speaker 3: the international community to recognize how serious femicide was in
Speaker 3: South Africa and how dangerous this country is for.
Speaker 4: Women every day.
Speaker 3: That was the only way that we knew the government
Speaker 3: would be under prittsure to finally declared gen the base
Speaker 3: violence and femicide and national disaster, which then automatically would
Speaker 3: have opened up financial resources and implement changes on the
Speaker 3: ground to start seeing the cases become less Sevilla.
Speaker 2: Do you think the timing helped these protests have an impact.
Speaker 1: I think it's difficult to say exactly beca because, like
Speaker 1: we said that this is something that is part of
Speaker 1: the course when it comes to G twenty meetings, there
Speaker 1: were several other protests that were happening, so difficult to
Speaker 1: say definitively whether there was any impact because of the
Speaker 1: G twenty, but whether it was or it wasn't, I
Speaker 1: think the relief is just that we are finally seeing
Speaker 1: an indication that government is willing to change course in
Speaker 1: some respects with regards to this crisis that has arguably
Speaker 1: gotten worse over time and is as dark as those
Speaker 1: of the economic challenges that are faced by South Africa.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's really interesting because at the time of
Speaker 2: this protest, there's been three consecutive G twenty presidencies from
Speaker 2: the Global South, so we've had India, Brazil, and now
Speaker 2: South Africa. These countries do have in common issues with
Speaker 2: gender based violence. How much do you think the issue
Speaker 2: has really come to the fore globally in terms of
Speaker 2: these big international meetings.
Speaker 1: I think it's something that even when you look at
Speaker 1: the negotiations of the declaration that was adopted by leaders
Speaker 1: last week, we're seeing what represidency of the G two
Speaker 1: and C there's a strong emphasis that's made on gender
Speaker 1: equality and rights in particular for women and children, and
Speaker 1: I think on this occasion was no difference. And so
Speaker 1: I think to the point that you're making, what we've
Speaker 1: seen in Brazil, what we've seen in India, in this
Speaker 1: global kind of South agenda that's been brought to the
Speaker 1: four by the countries in this region, is that there
Speaker 1: is a very much a concerted push to put this
Speaker 1: on the table of world leaders. I think the question
Speaker 1: really is in their own spaces, in their homes and
Speaker 1: their countries that they lead, if this goes beyond rhetoric,
Speaker 1: if it goes beyond this talk shop, beyond this declaration
Speaker 1: and actually amounts to actions which can save the lives
Speaker 1: of women that are on resac.
Speaker 2: Stay with us then bulight when we come back, we'll
Speaker 2: talk more about the impact of these protests and how
Speaker 2: the government has responded.
Speaker 4: We'll be right back.
Speaker 2: Welcome back today on the podcast, we're talking about the
Speaker 2: protests against South Africa's high rate of violence against women.
Speaker 2: Our reporter stem belay Seller is still with me stimulate.
Speaker 2: These protests were timed to make the most impact. How
Speaker 2: has the South African government responded?
Speaker 1: So they've been calls for many years for what has
Speaker 1: been termed South Africa's real pandemic and what it means
Speaker 1: when you categorize something as a national disaster, which is
Speaker 1: what we've seen of this crisis being declared in the
Speaker 1: last few days, is that it's conditions in which you
Speaker 1: suspend something like procurement laws, so in the event that
Speaker 1: you have mass flooding, you can export out relief. You
Speaker 1: don't need to follow the normal channels, which ordinarily would
Speaker 1: slow things down. And that's not the situation that you
Speaker 1: want right when you're in an emergency kind of situation.
Speaker 1: And so previously it was tabled before government They've been
Speaker 1: calls by NGOs, by other advocacy groups to say, this
Speaker 1: matter is so extreme, it's so urgent that something out
Speaker 1: of the ordinary, kind of the conditions that you saw
Speaker 1: during the COVID nineteen pandemic, you need to do something
Speaker 1: ordinary to save the lives of women.
Speaker 4: In practice, though, I think there's a lot of moving.
Speaker 1: Parts and so it's not as clear cut as, for instance,
Speaker 1: diverting funds from one department to another. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of role players that are involved in the mix. So,
Speaker 1: for instance, you need the to act when they.
Speaker 4: Call upon to do so. That's not always the case.
Speaker 1: We have women that go to police stations brutalized by
Speaker 1: their partners for or by a man that they've met
Speaker 1: on the streets.
Speaker 4: The police laugh at them. The police don't give them
Speaker 4: this time of day.
Speaker 1: The statements that are gathered by the police are inadequate
Speaker 1: when it comes to the code processes. In terms of
Speaker 1: standing up, you need government to be able to be
Speaker 1: in a position to provide sufficient safe spaces for survivors.
Speaker 4: There aren't enough funds to go around to do that.
Speaker 1: The safe shelters that we do have are poorly maintained
Speaker 1: on the other side of it, you also need the
Speaker 1: court to do their parts and ensuring that offenders don't
Speaker 1: get bail, and that's not always the case. Repeatedly we've
Speaker 1: seen someone that commits a heinous crime, or is accused
Speaker 1: or is alleged to have done something like this in
Speaker 1: the realm of gender based violence. They are then released
Speaker 1: by a court on bail. They go out and they
Speaker 1: or repeat offenders, they do the same thing. So we
Speaker 1: know that if they had been kept behind bars while
Speaker 1: awaiting trial, they would not have offended again. And so
Speaker 1: I think these are the sorts of things that need
Speaker 1: to be ironed out that once we do declare this
Speaker 1: as has now been the case, as a national disaster,
Speaker 1: what actually are are the practical implications. I think the
Speaker 1: other side of this is that you can't actually police
Speaker 1: people in their homes, and that speaks to the aspects
Speaker 1: of this. Whereas a societal issue, right, it's an economic issue.
Speaker 1: It's a patriarchal issue how men exercise their dominance, their
Speaker 1: power over women that rely on them, and so it's
Speaker 1: very difficult to police people in their home. Where children
Speaker 1: are subjected to sexual assault by family members, where children
Speaker 1: are groomed, they don't even know that the behavior that's
Speaker 1: been brought upon them is wrong.
Speaker 4: And so who do they go to? Who do they
Speaker 4: who do they speak to?
Speaker 1: And in the instances where children do become away that hey,
Speaker 1: this is not something that should be happening to me,
Speaker 1: they'll go to elders in the family or in the
Speaker 1: community and it will be swept under the rug.
Speaker 4: And so I think it's those difficult dynamics that government
Speaker 4: is going to actually have to contend with.
Speaker 1: Is once you are saying you are not taking this seriously,
Speaker 1: you're going to change course. Are all the parts in
Speaker 1: place to actually make the successful Are we actually going
Speaker 1: to see the numbers come down once the state of
Speaker 1: disaster is fully implemented.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's definitely not clear cut in terms
Speaker 2: of implementation. But even in just the categorization this as
Speaker 2: a national disaster, there was some confusion because previously the
Speaker 2: National Disaster Management Center said that the categorization didn't meet
Speaker 2: the legal requirements to be defined as a disaster. Now
Speaker 2: they're saying it does after some review. What does that
Speaker 2: really say about, you know, the government's handling of this
Speaker 2: entire crisis. Are they taking it seriously? Are they only
Speaker 2: bowing to external pressure. Why do you think there was
Speaker 2: that discrepancy there?
Speaker 1: Look, it's difficult to say, because, as we say, it's
Speaker 1: an ongoing issue, and every now and then, when we
Speaker 1: do have a case that for whatever reason attracts mass
Speaker 1: media attention, or in the case of last week, you know,
Speaker 1: something like the G twenty leader's summits, it does come
Speaker 1: back onto their gender quite strongly. But we know that
Speaker 1: on an every single day basis, woman off face with
Speaker 1: these kind of peneous crimes, with this violence that is
Speaker 1: imposed upon them, and we've seen repeatedly that there's been
Speaker 1: a shortcoming in terms of a response from law enforcements,
Speaker 1: and so it's really difficult to say that things are
Speaker 1: going to get better or not by this. And I
Speaker 1: think there's a number of things that need to be
Speaker 1: resolved outside of even the law enforcement situation, outside of
Speaker 1: the psychological societal issues. There's also an argument to be
Speaker 1: made about the economic conditions that drive this kind of behavior.
Speaker 1: And so I think improving that an empowering woman economically speaking,
Speaker 1: would without a doubt maker dents in the scopes that
Speaker 1: we've see.
Speaker 2: Definitely, and in terms of looking to the future, as
Speaker 2: the spotlight sort of moves away from the G twenty
Speaker 2: and South Africa. What will you be looking for to
Speaker 2: indicate that the government is actually trying to make a difference.
Speaker 2: Will we be able to see real implementations of change
Speaker 2: in the near future do you think so?
Speaker 1: I think the first thing would be you would want
Speaker 1: to have a situation where you have consultation between governments
Speaker 1: and human rights groups, the Department of Social Development, them
Speaker 1: coming together to formulate what the terms of reference for
Speaker 1: the state of disaster actually look like. So, in practical terms,
Speaker 1: what can we untly? Is it money that needs to
Speaker 1: be unleashed, Does it need to be diverse it from
Speaker 1: different budgets from different departments. What will that money actually
Speaker 1: be used for? Is it something that we need beyond money?
Speaker 1: Is it an issue around law enforcement and strengthening the
Speaker 1: capabilities of that fund? Do you need to train police
Speaker 1: officers differently? Do you need to train prosecutors in a
Speaker 1: different way so that they're able to actually get convictions
Speaker 1: when it comes to sexual crimes or anything else in
Speaker 1: the realm of gender based violence? And so I think
Speaker 1: it's a starting point to have this declaration, But it's
Speaker 1: more in terms of the nuances in terms of references,
Speaker 1: the practicalities of what it actually looks like before we
Speaker 1: can actually make a judgment and whether or not it's
Speaker 1: going to be successful and move beyond the myriad of
Speaker 1: kind of talk shops and consultations that we've seen previously
Speaker 1: in the past that have not actually amounted to anything.
Speaker 2: And you can read all our coverage from the G
Speaker 2: twenty across Blomberg platforms now, including President Trump's threat to
Speaker 2: exclude South Africa from the next G twenty summit in Miami.
Speaker 2: We'll put a link to that in our show notes.
Speaker 2: Here's some other stories we've been following across the region
Speaker 2: this week. Ivory Coast economic growth is poised to accelerate
Speaker 2: in the next five years as the country season increase
Speaker 2: in oil and gas activity. That's according to Planning and
Speaker 2: Development Minister Cabiniale, who was speaking to Bloomberg. And Zambia's
Speaker 2: inflation slowed to its lowest level in more than two
Speaker 2: years as food price growth slowed. You can follow these
Speaker 2: stories across Bloomberg, including the Next African Newsletter. We'll put
Speaker 2: a link in our show notes. This program was produced
Speaker 2: by Adrian Bradley. Don't forget to follow and review this
Speaker 2: show wherever you usually get your podcasts. I'm t wa Adebayo.
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening.