1 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: Hi, guys, and welcome to a new episode of You 2 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: Need Therapy Podcast. My name is Kat and I am 3 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 1: your host. Quick reminder up top that I always like 4 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: to give you, guys in case you're new, or you know, 5 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 1: in case you forget that although I am a therapist 6 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: and this podcast is called You Need Therapy, it's not 7 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: an actual replacement or substitute for therapy or any kind 8 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: of mental health service, although we hope, I hope that 9 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: it does help you along whatever journey you're on now. Today, 10 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: I'm so pumped for you guys to hear this conversation 11 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 1: I had, because it was good and fun and we 12 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,919 Speaker 1: talked about some tough stuff, and I think we talked 13 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: about some helpful stuff. So my guest today is Tony Collier, 14 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: and she is the founder of an international women's ministry 15 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: called Broken Crayon Still Color, which helps women process through 16 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: brokenness and get to hope. She's also a speaker, host, 17 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: and author of the new book that I'm very excited 18 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: to start reading, Brave Enough to Be Broken. She actually 19 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: also has a podcast of her own called Still Coloring, 20 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: where she invites you to lean into the stories of 21 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: women and men that uncover their brokenness and practically show 22 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: how they rebuilt their lives with hope and grit. And 23 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: I've already started listening to that podcast and I really 24 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: like it, so I highly recommend that to you as well. 25 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 1: Tony and I talked about a lot of stuff, and 26 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: we talk about her story, we talk about therapy, some 27 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: myths about therapy when it comes to the church and religion, 28 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: and she's just super cool. I don't really know how 29 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: else to describe her. Is she's fun She's cool, she's funny. 30 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: I can confirm Tony, if you're listening, I think you 31 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: are as well. And it just was a good time. 32 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: So I hope you guys learn something. I hope you 33 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: guys feel like you're with us in the room, and 34 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,279 Speaker 1: I hope you grab her book, Brave Enough to Be Broken, 35 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: which you can pre order right now. I will link 36 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,799 Speaker 1: her website and all the things you need in order 37 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 1: to find her in the show notes. You have one 38 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: click to get to it. But yeah, I hope you 39 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: enjoyed this conversation, and I think maybe it's time for 40 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 1: me to let you guys listen to it. So here's 41 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: my conversation with Tony. All right, guys, we are here 42 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:30,799 Speaker 1: with a new friend. Welcome, hey girl. So now I've 43 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: already given Uh, she doesn't know this, but I've already 44 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: given the spiel of who she is and what she 45 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: does before I sat here with her. You guys have 46 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:45,119 Speaker 1: already heard. But now I want her to give her 47 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: own spiel of how she likes to hear herself, because 48 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: sometimes I think, well, let me ask you, Tony, if 49 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: you think that hearing somebody like list off who it 50 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: introduce you, is that not one of To me, it's cringe. 51 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: It's like, and she's done this, and she's done this. Yeah, 52 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: And I think that's part of just like kind of 53 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: how we're trained to like not be too egotistical or 54 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: anything like that. But also I think for me as like, 55 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: I see myself differently than that list of things. So 56 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: before we get into what we're gonna get into, I 57 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,799 Speaker 1: want you to just tell us who you are as 58 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: if like how your friends view you. Yeah, that's so good. 59 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: I do agree with you. I feel like oftentimes people 60 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,239 Speaker 1: see you through the lens of your accolades. For me, personally, 61 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: I see myself through the lens of all my brokenness 62 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,839 Speaker 1: and stuff that I carry, And so I think for me, 63 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: like I feel like I'm an overcomer, I'm a mom, 64 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: I'm a wife, and I am a little wild, look crazy, 65 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: and I'm kind of funny. I don't funny, Okay, I'm 66 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: like here, I am. You should say that, you know, 67 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: I think people have a hard time, and usually when 68 00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: I ask that, people are like I was an expect 69 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: to hear this, or I don't even know. I didn't 70 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: prepare something. It's like, you don't when you think about 71 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: who you are, that's something that you shouldn't have to 72 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: like sit down and do a research project around. This 73 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: is just coming to me now because I've recently been 74 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: talking about it, but I've been working with some people 75 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: around like identity and like changing jobs or moving to 76 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: a new place or whatever it is. It's like, well, 77 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 1: what is my identity now? And I think what you 78 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: said outside of obviously what you do for a living 79 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: and the things that you've accomplished, those things matter and 80 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: they're part of you. But the things that you just 81 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: think of when you think about yourself, that's the essence 82 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: of who you are, and funny gets to be part 83 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, we like that. I know I almost hesitated, 84 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: but I was like, I'm funny, Okay, I are. And 85 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 1: the other thing is this is important too, is somebody 86 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: might not think you're funny and we just met. So 87 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: I'm not saying you're funny. Somebody might not think you're funny, 88 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 1: and that doesn't mean you're not funny because there's so 89 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: many different people, so many different kinds of humor, so 90 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: many somebody might think you're smart and somebody might think 91 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: you're dumb. Like if that that one opinion doesn't get 92 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 1: to be the essence of who you are. Easier said 93 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: than actually felt. But that's why I think it's okay 94 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: for you to say whatever I think. I'm funny. That's 95 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: part of who I am. Thank you. So Tony has 96 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 1: a new book and I'm really excited because I just 97 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: got my own and it's called Brave Enough to Be Broken. Now. 98 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: I when I first found you and I was reading 99 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: about you, this is what kind of like sparked me, 100 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: and I was like this, I would like to have 101 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: more of a conversation around this. There's some questions I have, 102 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 1: And it says in your book you're sharing everything that 103 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: you've learned on how beauty can come from something broken. 104 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: And then you're giving practical steps in biblical wisdom to 105 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: help other women who feel unworthy or unqualified to have 106 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: a life of meaning and purpose, and those were that 107 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: sounds like something I'm like that not only is a story, 108 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: but it's a resource. There's a lot in that. And 109 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: I don't want to of away the book, but I 110 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: would like to learn a little bit because I don't 111 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: know if this is something that I have found just 112 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: personally troublesome or professionally, but and I want to know 113 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: your thoughts on this, and then there's a question with it. 114 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: Everybody and their moms and their mom's mom, all of them. 115 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: Everybody is an expert these days on everything, where it's 116 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: become like detrimental sometimes to my job because I'm like, 117 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: oh my god, that's not true, or like whatever. But 118 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: what I like about what I know so far about 119 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: what you're doing is you're actually coming from a place 120 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: of like, this is where I was, and I am 121 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: here now, and so I'm telling you some information and 122 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: some things that I learned along the way that might 123 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: help those people that are where I was. It's not 124 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: coming from a place of oh I'm here and I've 125 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: never been there, so but let me tell you about 126 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 1: how to get you out of there, because that just 127 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 1: it just is annoying. It's like that I I liken 128 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: that to like a person who and there's nothing wrong 129 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: with this, but somebody who gets married to their college 130 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,119 Speaker 1: sweetheart and it's with them forever and all the things 131 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: that like typical things line up for them. Is giving 132 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: dating advice to somebody in like their thirties who's never 133 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: been married. It's the same thing like fall in love 134 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: when you're twelve. It's gonna be fine. It's like I 135 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: was in the club when I was twelve. What are 136 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: you talking about? Okay? Not the same? Yeah, So I 137 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: want you to tell us, like again, leave some to 138 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: be imagined, but I want to know about you and 139 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: where you came from. That lads you into this space 140 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: that you're now. Yeah, okay, Well was in the club 141 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: at twelve and thirty? Okay, let me say that. No, 142 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: But I grew up in a blended family. My mom 143 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: got really sick growing up. So I was eight years old, 144 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: my mom had a massive stroke, paralyzed on her left side. 145 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: It kind of broke up our family dynamic. My brothers 146 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: want to go live with their moms, and my counselor 147 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: would call it parentification is kind of what I suffered. 148 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 1: And you know, it's just like for those of you 149 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: that don't know, it's it's kind of like this moment 150 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: where there's a natural progression to you taking care of 151 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: your parents. You're like in your fifties, sixties maybe, and 152 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: you kind of switched roles with your parents. But for me, 153 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: at eight and twelve and thirteen, I was making sure 154 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: that my mom was bathed and changed and got to 155 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: doctor's appointments and putting her little pills and medicine bottles, 156 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: and so a lot of my childhood on wonder just 157 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: left super quick. What that meant was, I thought I 158 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: was grown and so with a dad who was verbally 159 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: abusive and always at work, um, I was really susceptible 160 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: to a whole bunch. So there was sexual manipulation and 161 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: abuse from family members. At thirteen, I lost my virginity 162 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: to a much older guy. I started smoking weed, to numb, 163 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: drinking alcohol, popping bottles, tworking all over everybody. Left my 164 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: parents house at sixteen, put myself through college, and then 165 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:50,839 Speaker 1: ended up marrying a guy who was just as verbally 166 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: abusive as my dad. And so I'm in this toxic marriage. 167 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:55,319 Speaker 1: Then I said, oh you know what I'm gonna do. 168 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to church. I'm gonna go get saved 169 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: out here. I get saved ends up being a toxic church. 170 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: And I mean the pastor at one time looked at 171 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: me and said that my purpose was connected to him, 172 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: and so if I ever left the church, then God's 173 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: hand wouldn't be on me anymore, like he wouldn't do 174 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: anything with my life. Oh yeah, So just a whole 175 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: bunch all before the tender sweet age of twenty four. 176 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: And so went through a divorce at twenty four, but 177 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: we had a daughter in the marriage, and so it 178 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: was just a slew of crap for a very very 179 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 1: long time. And at twenty five I was like, it 180 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: gotta get better than this, Like this is stupid. Okay, 181 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: there's divorce, there's so much in my past. There's now 182 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: church hurt and spiritual manipulation, and there's just it's just 183 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: too much. And so at twenty five I made a 184 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: commitment to myself and really my daughter, honestly that I 185 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: wasn't just going to be someone that hid, that wallowed 186 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: in you know, Christian shame and got up on stages 187 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: and acted like everything was okay because I was at 188 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: church and the ministry that I would actually do the work, 189 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: the real work of healing. And so I got my 190 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: behind up in counseling. Went every week for a couple 191 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: of years, did E M You Are trauma therapy, did 192 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 1: a sixteen week trauma betrayal group. I mean, went to 193 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,599 Speaker 1: some intensives. I mean freaking just got my life. I 194 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: did the thing, and I'm still doing the thing like 195 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: I haven't arrived, you know. And there was a point 196 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: in my life where I said, I bet you there's 197 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: other women like out here in the world that really 198 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: don't know what the best next step is because I 199 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: had to claw my way through a healing journey. So 200 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: now I'm just like, well, let me just put what 201 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: I did in a book to maybe hopefully help somebody 202 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: and be a resource to someone. I mean, there's even 203 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: parts of the book that's like how do you find counseling? 204 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 1: Like how do you even do that? When you broke 205 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: in your single moment? Like what do you do? Okay? 206 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: So I have a lot of questions. I tried to 207 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 1: do it in a nutshell. So one so this happens 208 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: your mom has a stroke when you're eight. Yeah, okay, 209 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 1: so as an eight year old, and this is one 210 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: of those things that as a therapist I forget is 211 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 1: something that you learn not like an automatic thought, but 212 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: because I am doing talking about this all day. But 213 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: as eight year old, I think a lot of people 214 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: out there are like, oh, she was eight and that 215 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: then she was she kept being eight and then she 216 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: turned nine and it was just normal. But when you 217 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: are in a system where there aren't resources, or you 218 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: do what you have to do, or you just get 219 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: put in a rold, you don't know what being eight is. 220 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: You are shown that. So your home and your environment 221 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: shows us this is what eight year olds do, right, 222 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: and maybe that is a little different at school than 223 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: it is at home, but also you're going to spend 224 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: a lot of time at home and those are the 225 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: people that you trusted first, and not meaning that your 226 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,719 Speaker 1: your mom was like telling you to do the wrong thing, 227 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: but like she needed your help. You were there to help. 228 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: That's what you did. So did you have the awareness that, like, 229 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: this is not what an eight, nine, ten year old 230 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: responsibilities are? Absolutely not like I mean, it's it's exactly 231 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 1: what you're saying it's oh, eight year olds make sure 232 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: their mom don't die, Like that's what I do. I 233 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: make sure that she's safe and protected. I am now 234 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: the hearent and this is just it is what it is, like, 235 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: this is gonna be my whole life. And that has, 236 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: as you know, obviously influenced so much of who I 237 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 1: am because now it's like I've got to help everybody. 238 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: I've got to exhaust myself because I've got to make 239 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: sure that they don't, like philosophically die. It's all on me, 240 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: you know, and I care that now as an adult 241 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: for sure. Again, part of that's a really cool skill 242 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: that you develop up like you're a helper. Everybody wants 243 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: me on their team, like she's gonna freaking killer, She's 244 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: gonna save the day. Yeah, that's a gift, and there's 245 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: a shadow, right, we have to look at where we 246 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: overuse that gift, where it's no longer a gift anymore. 247 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,559 Speaker 1: So you you have this experience in your family and 248 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: you you grow up really fast. And I love that 249 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: use the word prentified. Yeah, that's one of the first 250 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: things I learned and like undergrad and I was like, wait, 251 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: that's so crazy. And then I'm like, that's actually happens 252 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: way more than you think. People just don't know that 253 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:04,319 Speaker 1: that's what's happening. Looks like surviving. So then tell me more. 254 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,719 Speaker 1: I want to know more about just growing up and 255 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: how you woke up to the fact that you were like, 256 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: this can't be it because that's all you knew. So 257 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: how what part of you was like this can't be it. Yeah, 258 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,079 Speaker 1: my counselor tells me this all the time. She was like, Tony, 259 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 1: there was a point in your life where you were 260 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:27,839 Speaker 1: safe enough to heal. So for many of us, like 261 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: when you're in trauma, when you're just surviving, when you're 262 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: doing the best that you can, you almost don't really 263 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: have the safety or the time or the luxury to 264 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: heal because you're just surviving. Like we work with kids 265 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: in the inner city, Like I could go to them 266 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: and be like you guys and you go to counseling. 267 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: You know, you just witnessed your mom get hit in 268 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 1: the head with a hammer. You just witnessed, you know, 269 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: a shootout, and it's like these kids don't even have 270 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: the time, Like they're doing the best they can to 271 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: make sure that they get a bath at night, you know. 272 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: And so I think there was a point in my 273 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: life when I got out of this really toxic church 274 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: and I transitioned out of this marriage that I had 275 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: like a moment to just breathe and realize that, oh snap, 276 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: like this like something is really wrong here. My It's 277 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: almost like my body was like we have a little 278 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: bit of safety now, like we have a moment to breathe. 279 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: My even my daughter, like she went to go be 280 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: with my parents for the summer as I was just healing, 281 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: and that space allowed me to really catch up to 282 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: myself and realized, oh, like you're like you can't sit 283 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: still without shaking, You're not sleeping well, and all of 284 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: the unhealth came up and I was like, oh snap, 285 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: I think I need to do something about this. And 286 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: that's when I got into counseling and I literally just 287 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: spit off my store. I remember the first counseling session, 288 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: I spit off my story just like I did, and 289 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: the counselors like, are you kid, And I'm like, yeah, 290 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: that's my life, that's what happened. She's like, how kire, 291 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: sweet girl with little emotion. Yeah, just like here it is, 292 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: you know, and she's like, you went through a lot, 293 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: and honestly, that's when it got hard. Yeah, that's when 294 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: the pain came. Oh yeah, So what was it like 295 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: for you to hear from a therapist? I'm like, WHOA, 296 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: Like back it up, yeah, Like it didn't just happen 297 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: like that, And like that sounds really hard because I'm 298 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: making up a story that it just was like what 299 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: you did and nobody really gave you credit for all 300 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: of this, the stuff and the trauma that you've been through. 301 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: So what was when you heard that? I broke down 302 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: because I realized that it wasn't normal and that pain. 303 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: You know, people ask all the time, like what was 304 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: the most painful part of your life? I'm like, it 305 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: wasn't even all this crazy stuff. It wasn't even growing 306 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: up without nurturing and care. It was the realization that 307 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: I didn't grow up without nurturing and care, and that 308 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: now I'm going to really have to work my hardest 309 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: to now go back and heal those things because I 310 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: have a daughter now, and then now I have a son, 311 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: and I can very easily leak on them and perpetuate 312 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: these same types of behavior, these same types of abusive 313 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: traits and and then it just made me feel really unworthy. 314 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: It's like, well, that's not fair. Why wasn't there anyone there? 315 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: Why didn't it Why didn't a school counselor stepment? Like 316 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: what were the frequent Where was everybody? Where were you? Okay? 317 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: So that's actually really helpful for me to hear of, 318 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: Like one the most painful part was when I had 319 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: to like actually accept what the truth was. But then 320 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: with that, it wasn't just the pain of digging in 321 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: and my trauma and doing m DR, and it was 322 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: actually then having to recognize that like wait a second, 323 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: there were people that let me down or I can't 324 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: look at this through rose colored glasses and Okay, so 325 00:16:55,440 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: oftentimes and I'm pro therapy, people shouldn't know that. Fine now, yeah, 326 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: and I think so often and I can do this myself. 327 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 1: I'm I'm guilty of this myself. We can look at 328 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,439 Speaker 1: somebody and say, like, why won't they just go to therapy, 329 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,120 Speaker 1: Like if they would go to therapy, they could do this, 330 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: or if they and put that into any other it 331 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: doesn't just have to be therapy. But I think what 332 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: people don't realize and I can forget it, like I 333 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:25,479 Speaker 1: know that therapy just like is excruciating a lot of 334 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: the time, and there's like a a good view and sight, 335 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: but like we're not close to it yet in the beginning, 336 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:33,919 Speaker 1: and so I know that. But also it can be 337 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: so frustrating when when we see people and we're like, oh, 338 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: this would help them, but they're just resistant, or they're 339 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,360 Speaker 1: just in denial, or they're and I'm like, now, wait 340 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: a second, the resistance and the denial are also survival strategies, 341 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: right surprise. Yeah, So if who knows, We don't know 342 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,239 Speaker 1: because it's not what happened, But if you had to 343 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: recognize the stuff that you recognize later in life, how 344 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:03,880 Speaker 1: would you find support to hold yourself up through that? 345 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: Here's the thing, Like, you're right, you get into therapy 346 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: and for some odd reason, I don't know if it's 347 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: just our generation, but we paint this picture. It's like 348 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 1: therapy is gonna be so good. It's gonna be a 349 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: central oils and a sund machine and it's just about 350 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: to be so great. I mean, get I get to heal, 351 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: and it's like freaking stop real, like you're about to 352 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:25,479 Speaker 1: go on a roller coaster. You're gonna want to get 353 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 1: off of it. Is healing is not linear, is extremely painful, 354 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: It's really hard. And one of the things that I'm 355 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 1: doing now to really help safeguard my heart around healing 356 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 1: and therapy, because again I have not arrived. I'm still 357 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: doing my thing. Um is something called a confessional community. 358 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: Dr Kurt Thompson talks about. You know, healing in community 359 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,239 Speaker 1: is one of the most powerful things that you can do. 360 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,199 Speaker 1: And it's not to say that you gotta go to 361 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: counseling while all your besties you need your own counseling 362 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: out here, but there's just something about getting on the 363 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: same page with people around you who are also doing 364 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 1: their work, and people that can say, hey, I know 365 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 1: that session was pretty sucky. I know you had to 366 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,959 Speaker 1: revisit some really hard things in your past. I just 367 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: want you to know that you're not carrying it alone 368 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: because sometimes like grieving is crappy, but grieving alone is 369 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 1: fear like fearful, Like it makes you super fearful. And 370 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: so I have really put people around me that like 371 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: not only understand counseling, are doing their own work as well, 372 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: are incredibly healthy. And then I remember people used to 373 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: call me like an elementary school and middle school a teletubby. 374 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: Don't know if you remember those, we probably, I want 375 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 1: to know what, we probably all have some trauma from 376 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: those freaking talent tubbies. But it's because I was always 377 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 1: really happy, and I think people kind of weighed my 378 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,159 Speaker 1: happiness with what was happening in my surroundings, like with 379 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: my mom being so sick and all these different things, 380 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:48,679 Speaker 1: and they were just like, man, she's still showing up 381 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: with a smile and she's all good to go. Well. 382 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: At some point in my life, I lost that, and 383 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: I've been on a journey that these last couple of 384 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 1: years to get it back, to get that you know, optimism, 385 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: back to really just be hopeful, because I feel like 386 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: hope paired with a healing journey is what kind of 387 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: gets you through is thinking that and not even thinking, 388 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: but believing that wholeness is available, like hope is really available. 389 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: And so I think hope has been a really big 390 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: thing for me. To have two questions after that. One 391 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: is coming from your perspective, especially after you're in this 392 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 1: church where you you go to this church and you 393 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 1: think church is gonna be great and like this is 394 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:28,439 Speaker 1: gonna be helpful and then it ends up being toxic 395 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: and scary and not so great. So coming from that experience, 396 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: how did you end up finding a community? How how 397 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: did you learn to trust and know who to trust? 398 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: Because that's what I experience a lot, and and healing 399 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 1: with people is well, I can't I can't trust anybody 400 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: because I thought those were good people. Look what happened, 401 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: and look what happened. Man, Church, it really sucks. Let 402 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: me just say that for anybody out there that's endured 403 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: some spiritual trauma, that crap. It's just sucks so bad 404 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: because it is like the foundation is what you believe 405 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: is the foundation of who you are. It's your faith, 406 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 1: it's tethered to so much, your identity, all the things, 407 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,640 Speaker 1: and so it just really sucks. I think the first 408 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 1: thing that I did was I became really aware of 409 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: what I was attracted to for some odd reason. Now 410 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: I know I kept attracting really abusive people, but that 411 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: freak is going on. Well, I could hand over my 412 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: healing and my wholeness to the people that abused me, 413 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: or I could say my healing doesn't start an end 414 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: with you. I'm going to take ownership over whatever in 415 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 1: the world is in me potentially that that that kind 416 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: of creates this like magnetic thing to people that are abusive. 417 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: I am attracted to aggressive men. Well, my dad was 418 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,959 Speaker 1: an aggressive man. Like there's something up in there. I'm 419 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: a childhood that attracts me to that type of man. 420 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,640 Speaker 1: And so the first thing that I did was I 421 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: checked myself. I became a little bit more healthy, a 422 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:00,919 Speaker 1: little bit more whole, and from that place, I was 423 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: able to develop boundaries. So then I started getting in 424 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: relationships with more worth and more belief in myself and 425 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: what I deserved. And then I honestly started praying, which 426 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:13,679 Speaker 1: it's it's so freaking weird as an adult to be 427 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 1: praying to God for friends. Okay, have you? I mean, God, 428 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 1: please like send my Sindebastie. You know, it's just so weird, right, 429 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: Like it's so easy to find friends, like on the 430 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: playground when you're saying, like glad, you want to be 431 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: my friend, you know, but like try that out whole foods. 432 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Like you want to be 433 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 1: my friend? What you're doing? Love your style? Okay, where 434 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: do you live? You? Like, what are you talking about? Ma'am? 435 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: But I did I started to believe for that, and 436 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 1: I just really do believe that God was like all right, 437 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: shady low, and it's crazy. One by one by one 438 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: I started finding friends. But before we got into deep relationship, 439 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: I knew my boundaries. I had boundaries that were strong 440 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: enough to keep the bad stuff out, permeable enough to 441 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 1: let the good stuff in. And I put people in 442 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: circles like I talked about that in the book, where 443 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: it's like even Jesus has circles like out here putting it. 444 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,239 Speaker 1: You got sandwich friends, Okay, the friends that you have 445 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: a sandwich with it work in all your business and 446 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: they don't have the space, the capacity, the expertise to 447 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: carry that with you. So identify the people that are safe. 448 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: And it took years, and my circles are freaking small, 449 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: and I'll still be a little nervous. I'd be like, Okay, now, 450 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: wait a minute, let's have a conversation before I tell 451 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: you this. Okay, let me just see where you are, 452 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 1: and and being okay with transitioning people in and out 453 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: of circles and just knowing that I don't want to 454 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: do it alone, and so I gotta give really crazy 455 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 1: ratchet humans another chance because I'm a really crazy ratchet 456 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: human and I want another chance to So I imagine 457 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: that creating some boundaries before you get into relationships is 458 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: a game changer because then you become responsible for withholding 459 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: that well that boundary. And that's why I think a 460 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: hard thing where at first when you said, like my 461 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: healing and all that does not just start and end 462 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: with you, like I, I'm in charge of a lot 463 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: of this and what I'm in charge of, it's setting 464 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: my boundary and then if you don't respect it, which 465 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: is hard when you're not used to doing that. But 466 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 1: over time, imagine that gets a little bit easier. And 467 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: I really like the idea of having these in making 468 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 1: it like an okay thing. But I have different kinds 469 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 1: of friends. I have the friends that I'm just cool with. 470 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: I have the friends that I'm going to call when 471 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: I'm like breaking down and can't even form words. But 472 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 1: that's a very few amount of people, right, And I 473 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: don't think that that's being closed off. I don't think 474 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: I heard this quote, and I want to say it 475 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: was on and Annie f downs that, so I think 476 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: that was one of her Angiogram podcasts where she was 477 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: I don't know what number it was. But somebody said, 478 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 1: whether it's her her guests trying to give somebody credit here, 479 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 1: but I don't know what they're doing. So they said, 480 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 1: be authentic with many, a bit transparent with few, and 481 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: I shall. That's amazing to me, Like I can show 482 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: up super authentic with somebody that I don't want in 483 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 1: my life, right right, So those people that you're like, 484 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: I'm attracted to toxic men or to just like men 485 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 1: that are dominating or whatever it is, Okay, Well I 486 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 1: can be authentic with you, but you're not getting anything else. 487 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: Like you're getting who I am, but that doesn't mean 488 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: you're getting the insides of who I am, you know. 489 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: So I really like that. Now I want to switch 490 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: it up a little bit. So you went to counseling, which, 491 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: again we're pro therapy here. I would like to know, like, 492 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: how did you even It sounds like you went when 493 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: you were really young. How did you know that was 494 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: a thing, How did you find resources? What were your 495 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: giving you questions? You just take the one that fits 496 00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: the most, and then I guess part of it is 497 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: when I when I was twenty five, I had just 498 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:06,439 Speaker 1: graduated grad school from to be a therapist. But in 499 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: college I would have never never thought to go to 500 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: therapy or no where to find that. So what were 501 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: your thoughts about it before you went? How'd that go? Yeah? 502 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 1: So before I went, I mean I came from a 503 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: I'm African American with those of you that obviously can't 504 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: see me, and it's a very weird thing in our culture. 505 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: My parents, when I told them I was going to counseling, 506 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 1: my mom legit called me, was like, are you schizophrenic? 507 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: I said no, she's like, you know, bipolar running our family. 508 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,239 Speaker 1: I said, okay, thank you so much. Mom, really appreciate you. 509 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,719 Speaker 1: Don't think that's the issue, Okay, but I do have 510 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,919 Speaker 1: some toxic traits going on here. Girlfriend. I mean, she 511 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,640 Speaker 1: was genuinely concerned. And it is because in our culture, 512 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 1: like you don't go unless you're just like you had 513 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: a psychotic break or is a psychotic break going on 514 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: in their minds. And so first and foremost, I remember 515 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 1: I had a friend that was like, hey, I think 516 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:02,679 Speaker 1: you need to go accounting. I was like, oh, girl, no, 517 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: I'm not crazy, like yeah, and she's like, no, no, 518 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: I really do think that you need to go and 519 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: maybe just unpack that and I was just like, okay, 520 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: we I'm gonna do some research on but I don't know. 521 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: And honestly, I found a new church home after some 522 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: time away from the church because I hated everybody in 523 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 1: the church. And I came back and there was like 524 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: a they had like a counseling like referral situation, and 525 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: I was like, okay, let me go see girl, looked 526 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: it up, did my first little appointment. They were like, 527 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: it's this much money, and I was like, oh, you 528 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: gotta pay for this, like what it's like, I'm not. 529 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,640 Speaker 1: I was like, okay, well, we're gonna have to back 530 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 1: this party up a little bit um. And what's interesting 531 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: is after I got an accounting I started dating again 532 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: after divorce, and my boyfriend at the time is like 533 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: madly in love with me, still is because he's my 534 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: husband now. He offered to pay for my counseling because 535 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: I was so brod as a single mom, like I 536 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: was just trying to figure my life out, and so 537 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,479 Speaker 1: he started paying for it for me because he, I 538 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 1: think because he also knew He was like, no, you 539 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: need to stay you need to go to counseling. You 540 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 1: just stay up in counseling. And I was so guarded 541 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,400 Speaker 1: at first, man Like I just I was like, this 542 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: is a stranger. I'm like, who is this person? Weird? 543 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: It's so weird. And so I started researching things like 544 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 1: why do you need counseling, and started reading things like 545 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: just like you need to go to the gym and 546 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 1: you want to work on your physical body, you need 547 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: to work on your mental and emotional body. And truthfully, 548 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: my driving, you know thing was my daughter. I just 549 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: kept thinking about eight year old Tony and what she needed, 550 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: and she needed like healthy people around her that saw 551 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 1: what she was going through, that could understand it. And 552 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: she needed healthy parents both physically, you know, and mentally 553 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: and emotionally. And I just wanted to be that from 554 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: my daughter really really bad. And I write about this 555 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: in the book about Your Posture and Counseling, because I mean, 556 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: I have the authority to speak about it only because 557 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: I've done it wrong. I've gone into counseling when my 558 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: arms crossed, like yeah that happened, okay. By She's like, yeah, 559 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: by how you feel, I'm like pretty great, It's all good, 560 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: you know. Like, So I talked about being honest and 561 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: counseling really dig like sinking your teeth and like giving 562 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: it a shot and being okay with like dating counselors 563 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: for a little while, like dating dating guys, but you know, 564 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: like trying to figure out like who's a good fit 565 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: and not giving up after the first second or even 566 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: third time. And I feel like some of a simple 567 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: folks that aren't therapist need to know how to do 568 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: counseling well and not just show up. And so did 569 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: you see more than one person before he found? Oh yeah, 570 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: I had. I had a woman because you know, I 571 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: stand on stages and etcetera, etcetera. And I called her 572 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: and I said, so, do you work with any leaders, 573 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: like people that are on stage that kind of have 574 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: like that additional pressure of the spotlight. And she's like, 575 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: everybody's a leader. I'm like, you're not it, man, Thank 576 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: you very much. I really appreciate this introductory call. I'm 577 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: and allow transition you out like it's you like and 578 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: nothing wrong with that at all. I loved her posture 579 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: of like stay at home moms or leaders and these 580 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: are leaders and whatever, and I'm like, I love it. Also, 581 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: it's a little different around here. You're lucky for something specific. 582 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: And so, yeah, I had one fell asleep on me 583 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: a couple of times. Yeah, yeah, count she would just 584 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: be honest, like sitting in the office. I will say 585 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: his name, but yeah, he's just just like tired, poor thing. 586 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: I don't know what happened. He just kept just falling 587 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: right to sleep. In the session, I said, okay, it's 588 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: time for us to transition out. Wait a second, kidding, Okay, 589 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: so these are the horror stories like you don't think 590 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: are really true. What did you do to sleep? Okay? 591 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: So at first, because I have people pleasing to yes, 592 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: I don't want to like lean into conflict. I just 593 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: like talk a little louder. Yeah, so or I was 594 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: just like I swear I'll just like tap my hand 595 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: on the table, you know, like just try to do 596 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: something that's not so direct, you know, when really I 597 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: should have been like, hey, you keep falling asleep in 598 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: our sessions. It is really making me feel unimportant to you. 599 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: And I know that it's that you're not trying to 600 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: and I know you may just be tired, but we 601 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: need to get you some coffee, sweet boy. But I'm 602 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: like and like my healing journey is still important and 603 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna still, I'm just gonna go to someone 604 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: else and find somebody else and make it happen. You know. Yeah, 605 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: well I think I'm so sorry that it happened to you. 606 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: It's one of those things that you can laugh at later, 607 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: but like it's really not funny, especially just knowing you 608 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: saying like as you were like opening up to all 609 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: of your stuff that wasn't normal, some of the questions 610 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: were like why was nobody there? Okay, well if that's 611 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: not a very directly related nobody's there. And I'm processing that, 612 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: and then my therapist falling asleep asleep, Oh my god, 613 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: I said, I gotta transition out. I gotta transition out. 614 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: But what what kept you from being like therapy? Like 615 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: therapy stupid? After that? You know, this goes back to 616 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 1: the I always feel like I have to like say, 617 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: I am kind of like a natural teletoby, I just 618 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: believe the best. I don't really I don't easily give 619 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: up on people. And again that goes back to like 620 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: there's a gift with a shadow side, right, like someone 621 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 1: I can freaking hold onto things that are toxic and 622 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: I need to let go. But I have matured and 623 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: I feel like now I can identify the things that 624 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: are healthy and good, and I just don't let anything 625 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: stand in my way to getting to it. Like my 626 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: mental and emotional health are so important to my own life, 627 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: to my daughter's life, to my friends, to my husband, 628 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: to my you know, kids, and I just I'm not 629 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: going to give up on it. I'm not going to 630 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 1: give up on it because I'm you know, with a 631 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: therapist that falls asleep a little bit because he tired 632 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 1: out here. I'm just like, Okay, it's time for me 633 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: to move on. It's toime for me to find someone else. 634 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,479 Speaker 1: And what's crazy is if I would have given up, 635 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: I would not have found my incredible counselor right now. 636 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: I mean, this chick is the real freaking deal man 637 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: and has changed my life drastically. Imagine if I would 638 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: have given up on therapy because of a person. A 639 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: person is not therapy. It is not you know, and 640 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: it's it's my thing to own so well, and it's 641 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 1: almost I wonder if there's that like divine or intervention 642 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: of like he's falling asleep because we've got to get 643 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: her on to somebody else. This isn't the other sins 644 00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: isn't it, And she's going to keep giving him chances. 645 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: If we don't do something dressing, something dressed, and and 646 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 1: he's asleep, you need to go ahead and leave out. Okay, 647 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 1: he is with you in this session, slee girl, And 648 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: I don't believe it's funny that. I'm like, maybe I 649 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: haven't talked about it a lot, but all I'm like 650 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: kind of surprised myself. I'm like, dank, you really was 651 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: falling to sleep? Yeah, well, I just think from from 652 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: my perspective as a therapist, that's like a joke. You 653 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: here all the time, and like your clients will say like, 654 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: am I born you are? I know this is born? 655 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: I know this, And I'm like, this isn't regardless of 656 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 1: if it's born or not. That has nothing to do 657 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: with anything because my job is to be present with you. 658 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 1: So it is kind of jarring when you're like, wait, 659 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: that does happen. But it's a good reminder that like, 660 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: not all therapists are created equal, just in general, like 661 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: I think that's a skill that we should just not 662 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: fall asleep. But also I could be a really awesome therapist, 663 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: but a really bad one for you. That's good, you know, 664 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: So I like your perspective and I like you being 665 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,120 Speaker 1: able to say, like, hey, I chopped around until I've 666 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: found one that fit and now I'm onto this amazing 667 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: trajectory because of that. So, okay, can we talk about 668 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: And that's why I told you a little bit before 669 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,760 Speaker 1: of I I hear a lot outside of therapy room 670 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 1: from people not in therapy AC counseling, and inside the 671 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: room with people who are either new to it or 672 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: having a hard time feeling accepted or understood, kind of 673 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: like what you're talking about with your mom love, Like 674 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 1: wait a second, you're going to therapy, are schizophrenic? Like 675 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: that therapy is is reserved for a certain type of issue, 676 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: when like, it's reserved for whatever you need it for. 677 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 1: But I want to talk about from the Christian perspective 678 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: because a lot of things that I have heard that 679 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 1: have have hurt people. And I am also a believer 680 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: of the best in people, So there's this part of 681 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 1: me that's like, they don't mean it that way and 682 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: X y Z and they were taught that and I 683 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: can overdo it too. But what would you say to 684 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: the people who might even still think this, Because I 685 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: think some people might listen to this podcast, but be like, yeah, 686 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: listen to that, but I'm not going because I don't 687 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: need to or whatever. What would you say to the 688 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:13,240 Speaker 1: people who have this belief that going to therapy is 689 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: is weak. It means that my faith isn't big enough, 690 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: or God will heal me if I just pray more, 691 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: or if I am feeling depressed or anxious or or 692 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: X y Z whatever fill in the blank. It's because 693 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: that I'm I'm doing something that's making God angry. Like 694 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 1: what would you say to some of those things. I 695 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 1: have a really hard belief, and I say hard just 696 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,839 Speaker 1: to preface it, because it's a strong belief, and I 697 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: will die to the end believing this. I really do 698 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 1: believe that God wants holy people. He wants people that 699 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 1: are holy, that know His word, that love him, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. 700 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,760 Speaker 1: But I also think He wants whole people as well. 701 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: And there are many of us walking around here broken 702 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: and we know every scripture and we're holy, and we 703 00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 1: can spit something out and we just rude. We just 704 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: right up mean, and we're maybe not even mean because 705 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,760 Speaker 1: we want to be, but because we're harboring some stuff 706 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: from our childhood that's holding us back from just being 707 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: kind to people, that's even just showing up like Jesus 708 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 1: would show up. And so my strong belief is that 709 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 1: I think he wants holy people, and I think he 710 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,359 Speaker 1: wants people that our whole as well, that actually understand 711 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 1: what's going on in our crazy minds at times. And 712 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,320 Speaker 1: I mean, when we think about David in the Bible, 713 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,880 Speaker 1: we see this guy that, like I mean, he is 714 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: literally labeled as like a man after God's own heart, 715 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: like loves God with everything in him, like probably really holy, 716 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 1: like one of the holiest. Can we just say that? 717 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,280 Speaker 1: But he also stole somebody's wife and got him killed. 718 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: So how in the world do you have this guy 719 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 1: that loves God so much that could commit such a heinous, 720 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: incredibly like toxic, abusive thing to steal someone's wife and 721 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 1: the NA guild so he didn't take her back. Dr 722 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: Alison Cook would say that David had this part of 723 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: him that wasn't healed, this part of his soul, that 724 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 1: he has this internal family system because I f s 725 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: is a thing and that's warring against each other that 726 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: he wants to be holding. He loves God, but he 727 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: also has this part of him that's incredibly insecure, so 728 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: insecure that he would steal someone's wife and then have 729 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: their husband killed. So what does it mean to have 730 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 1: David brought to full completion? Because God didn't like that. 731 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 1: God didn't like that David could preach and write all 732 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: these beautiful things to him and adore him but also 733 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 1: be really incredibly hurtful. God challenged David to be brought whole. 734 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,400 Speaker 1: And I just think, I mean, that's like on a 735 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 1: biblical deep level, but on a very practical level, like 736 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:49,959 Speaker 1: we've seen pastor's fall, Like, let's just be like, we've 737 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:57,360 Speaker 1: seen pastors ruin their families, freaking go after prostitutes, pornography, addictions, alcoholism, 738 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: We've seen them even bless their heart, commits to a side. 739 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: Why not because they didn't know the Bible, because they 740 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 1: weren't whole, because their minds were tormented, because they were 741 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,839 Speaker 1: hiding in shame and didn't feel like anyone would come 742 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: to rescue them. Because the Bible was supposed to be 743 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: the one thing to protect them. Why would God, the 744 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: God of goodness and all creation, do that to us? No, 745 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 1: he wants all of it. He wants us brought to 746 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 1: completion in every single way our minds, our bodies, and 747 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:32,319 Speaker 1: our souls. So okay, there's like a little mic drop 748 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 1: moment for you guys were leaving, So wow. I first 749 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 1: of all, I love using stories to actually help people 750 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 1: understand real stories to understand all of this. And yeah, 751 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,239 Speaker 1: you're right, like you look at the people that know 752 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,839 Speaker 1: the most, like they have the most information, and that 753 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that they are the healthiest or that what 754 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,000 Speaker 1: have you. And I think that is going to continue 755 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 1: to be somewhat of a issue for a long time 756 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,439 Speaker 1: because now we're talking about this now, and I talk 757 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,760 Speaker 1: about mental health all day long, but in the grand scheme, 758 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: it's not a large conversation. What would you say might 759 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 1: help people in those spaces who are who are in 760 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 1: communities where it is about what you know and people 761 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 1: aren't sharing shame, That's okay. I'm having all these sauce 762 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:32,360 Speaker 1: in my head. So often I hear from people I 763 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 1: could never share that with my small group, or I 764 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 1: hear this too. I walk into too church very differently 765 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,680 Speaker 1: than I walk into my Saturday like or my Friday 766 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,960 Speaker 1: night or whatever, and I wouldn't want those people to 767 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 1: see that person I've just changed the way I speak 768 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 1: in front of myself all that kind of stuff. What 769 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: would you say to people who are in those communities 770 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: where they're like, no, I could never share a sin 771 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 1: that I've committed in a group of Christians. Um, But 772 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:02,919 Speaker 1: to me, I'm like this bookers, But what would you say? 773 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 1: What would you say to somebody who's so many things, 774 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,359 Speaker 1: like so many thoughts? Because I literally came from that. 775 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: I lived one life on Sunday on stage making everybody see, 776 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 1: you know, see all this pretty glamorous Tony and then 777 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: went home and Monday through Saturday was just like wild 778 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 1: out here, And I would say, here are the things 779 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,680 Speaker 1: that I learned. One of the most painful things that 780 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,759 Speaker 1: I think I've ever had to experience outside of like 781 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,400 Speaker 1: looking back on my journey, is realizing that I was 782 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,319 Speaker 1: in a place where I should be deeply known, but 783 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:38,040 Speaker 1: I am deeply unknown. It wears on your soul to 784 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,399 Speaker 1: show up as a different person than who you are 785 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,280 Speaker 1: in a space where you're supposed to be the safest. 786 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:48,160 Speaker 1: Like I can't even imagine like living another moment at 787 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 1: this point, I'm like, listen, I'm wild. If you don't 788 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,400 Speaker 1: like it, let me know shotty, I'm out like like 789 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: it is what it is, is right. But I would 790 00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,160 Speaker 1: also say there's two things. There's two sides of it. 791 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 1: Number one, I had to look deep within myself. I'm 792 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,560 Speaker 1: I have a performer's heart. My my council says, I'm 793 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,239 Speaker 1: a little chameleon. I want other people to like me. 794 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 1: I want them to accept me. I want them to 795 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: invite me to the parties like I want to be invited. 796 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 1: And sometimes what that means is I will diminish the authenticity, 797 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,480 Speaker 1: the transparency, the root of who I am to fit 798 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,719 Speaker 1: who they want me to be. And I had to 799 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 1: correct that in me, like I had to build that 800 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,440 Speaker 1: up to say no, no, no, Like the reason why 801 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,480 Speaker 1: you're showing up in this space that way is because 802 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 1: you somehow think that if you showed up as your 803 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 1: authentic self, they would deny you. What I'm really afraid 804 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,960 Speaker 1: of is abandonment of not being invited to the party, 805 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,279 Speaker 1: and so I had to heal that in me. After that, 806 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,280 Speaker 1: then I had to look at what the actual tangible 807 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:47,359 Speaker 1: expectations of my community are and if that is something 808 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 1: that I want to be susceptible to that I want 809 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,480 Speaker 1: to accept or do they want me to be someone different, 810 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 1: and if they do, then this is not the place 811 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:56,680 Speaker 1: for me. My my council says this. There was a 812 00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,440 Speaker 1: season in my life where I would choose agony over loneliness. 813 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 1: I would literally stay in something because I don't want 814 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: to be lonely, but I would be. But that's lonely too. 815 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:09,640 Speaker 1: But that's lonely. That's so isolating, and so no leave. 816 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,680 Speaker 1: If you feel like that's being required of you, then 817 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:15,880 Speaker 1: you've got to leave and find a community. It's okay 818 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 1: to start over. It is worth your soul being able 819 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,279 Speaker 1: to be free and not. I mean you said this 820 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,800 Speaker 1: like not every therapist is a bad therapist. That therapy 821 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:28,840 Speaker 1: therapists may just not be the right therapist for you, 822 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:30,360 Speaker 1: Like there are churches that just may not be the 823 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:33,319 Speaker 1: right there for you, and that's okay, Like do your thing. 824 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,880 Speaker 1: You know, well, I think it's important I recognize what 825 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 1: you're talking about is like I am, I'm I'm working 826 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 1: to be liked versus known. And I think it's the 827 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,640 Speaker 1: first thing I think coming to me is those people 828 00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:49,000 Speaker 1: who who are saying like, oh, I could never share that, okay. 829 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:53,120 Speaker 1: Is that because you're trying to be liked or is 830 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 1: that because there has been shame and that's that's that 831 00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 1: you've seen that you've seen there, And so that's kind 832 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:01,719 Speaker 1: the game changer because then we know is this is 833 00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:04,280 Speaker 1: this really about me? Or is this about my environment? 834 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:09,280 Speaker 1: Because I think sometimes we confuse those not on purpose, 835 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,480 Speaker 1: because like we're just trying to survive here. But then 836 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 1: the other thing is, yeah, sometimes we just don't drive 837 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,239 Speaker 1: with people, and I can, like, if you do show up, 838 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,839 Speaker 1: this is easy to say, I know this is hard 839 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,080 Speaker 1: for me to experience. But if I show up and 840 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,080 Speaker 1: this goes off of me even saying like if sometimesn't 841 00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 1: think you're funny, that's okay, okay, yeah, but it also 842 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:33,080 Speaker 1: still hurts some stuff doesn't think you're like. But if 843 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,560 Speaker 1: I show up and I share something about myself and 844 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:40,960 Speaker 1: it is met with like a glare or like silence 845 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:46,440 Speaker 1: or shunning or um, just feeling condemned in some way, okay, 846 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:50,520 Speaker 1: So it's my responsibility to get out because that's not 847 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,919 Speaker 1: the type of environment that actually is what I'm looking for. 848 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,440 Speaker 1: Because what we know is when I share my story 849 00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,239 Speaker 1: and this is the power of your book. When I 850 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,359 Speaker 1: share my story and I talk about these things that 851 00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:07,239 Speaker 1: maybe somebody has never heard talking about it alleviates the 852 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,840 Speaker 1: need for me to keep my story a secret, and 853 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,000 Speaker 1: it alleviates that agony that you're talking about. Oh I 854 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,319 Speaker 1: don't have to feel this agony. There's another solution. And 855 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,480 Speaker 1: so I say that because it's important in those moments 856 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 1: to know if this is about me being liked, because 857 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:23,680 Speaker 1: what if it that's what it's about. And then I 858 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:28,080 Speaker 1: share something and people are like, I've been freaking waiting 859 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:32,439 Speaker 1: to because same, because they you know, so I do. 860 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,400 Speaker 1: I did like to kind of separate that out because 861 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:40,240 Speaker 1: oftentimes it is the group and oftentimes it's our shadow 862 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:44,439 Speaker 1: sides that are popping out. Yeah, okay, well I could 863 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,200 Speaker 1: talk to you for three hours, but we're not going 864 00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:51,040 Speaker 1: to one because you've probably been doing this a lot, 865 00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:52,960 Speaker 1: and too, because you know, we have to keep these 866 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:56,800 Speaker 1: episodes to somewhat of a a minimum. But I want 867 00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:00,359 Speaker 1: you to tell everybody where they can find you, where 868 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,640 Speaker 1: they can get your book, anything you would like the 869 00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:07,200 Speaker 1: audience to things All the things. Yeah, man, it's Tony J. Call. 870 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,680 Speaker 1: You're on Old Things, T and I, J C O 871 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,880 Speaker 1: L L I E R, instagre e zy my website, 872 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:14,560 Speaker 1: All the things, The book is called Brave Enough to 873 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,560 Speaker 1: Be Broken, and you know, I think, I'm I'm really 874 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,600 Speaker 1: really excited for people to read this book and actually 875 00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:23,640 Speaker 1: get some guard reels. I say this all the time. 876 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:25,840 Speaker 1: I don't claim to be an expert in nothing, Okay, 877 00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,319 Speaker 1: because I ain't. The Only thing that I can do 878 00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,120 Speaker 1: is tell my story really well and offer up what 879 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,200 Speaker 1: helped me heal. I'm pointing to licensed professionals, I'm pointing 880 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,359 Speaker 1: to resources, and I'm ultimately pointing to the source, my 881 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:41,480 Speaker 1: own source, which is God. And that's it. It's just like, hey, 882 00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,200 Speaker 1: here's some one to three steps that you can do 883 00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:48,000 Speaker 1: to help on this crazy healing journey. Yeah. But that's 884 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,200 Speaker 1: what I like about you, though. That is what I 885 00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,560 Speaker 1: like about you is is you're saying I'm not an expert. 886 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,279 Speaker 1: You're an expert of your life, is what you are, right. 887 00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,040 Speaker 1: You're the one that, yeah, you've had people help you, 888 00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,759 Speaker 1: and you had a great therapist help you, but you're 889 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:01,520 Speaker 1: the one that's really had to dig in and do 890 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:05,359 Speaker 1: all that stuff. And so I like how you wrote 891 00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,719 Speaker 1: the book where this is my story and I want 892 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:11,200 Speaker 1: people to hear it because I know that there's even 893 00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,879 Speaker 1: maybe one person out there that it is experiencing an 894 00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:18,360 Speaker 1: ounce of what I'm experiencing. This is how I found 895 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:22,759 Speaker 1: my way. I'm not going to pull you out of 896 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,279 Speaker 1: your pit, but here's some ways that I pulled myself up, 897 00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:30,120 Speaker 1: and here's how how I did that. Well, so that's 898 00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,960 Speaker 1: why I in the beginning, how I was saying, like 899 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,239 Speaker 1: everybody's an expert or a guru on whatever. Well you 900 00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:40,360 Speaker 1: know you're an expert on this, and so I'm excited 901 00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,120 Speaker 1: for people to read it. I'm excited to read it. 902 00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:46,000 Speaker 1: It's very exciting. All right, Well, thank you for coming 903 00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,480 Speaker 1: and talking to me, and I guess now we just 904 00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:53,600 Speaker 1: have to be friends, okay forever ever. You didn't know it, 905 00:46:53,640 --> 00:47:01,800 Speaker 1: but I did, all right, Thank you, Bo