WEBVTT - Does Pizza Bring Out the Worst In People? 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.040 Guess what, mango? What's that? Will? All right? 0:00:02.080 --> 0:00:03.920 So I have something I need to get off my chest. 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:05.960 But before I do, let me ask you this. Did 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:08.559 you grow up around show biz or Chuck E Cheese? 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:10.680 I think we actually had both in Delaware. They were 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:14.040 both pretty popular for birthdays. Seriously, you had both? All right? 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:16.680 Well, we only had Showbiz near us. And there's only 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:19.760 one thing I actually really remember from going to show biz, 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:21.639 you know, as like a five or six year old, 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:24.239 and it was the Rock of Fire Explosion Band. 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:28.320 Do you remember these guys? Of course, Mitzi, Mazzarella, Fasceronimo 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:29.720 and the Keys. How can you forget? 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:32.760 Well, I certainly won't ever forget them, nor will I 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:34.840 ever forget where I used to stand when I watch 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:35.640 them perform. 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:37.440 You know, show Biz had this huge. 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:39.720 Arcade room, but then you'd walk around the corner into 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:43.360 this dark room where this weird animatronic band was playing. 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:47.080 And I don't think I've ever been more simultaneously terrified 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:50.360 and yet completely mesmerized as I was when I watched 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:52.199 the Rock a Fire Explosion perform. 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:55.000 Yeah. My guess is you weren't alone in that feeling. 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:57.400 Well, so I'd stand in the doorway, and I'd watched 0:00:57.400 --> 0:00:59.720 them because for some reason I couldn't get enough of 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:01.640 these guys. And you know, as you mentioned, you had 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:04.640 Fat s Geronimo, the gorilla and the keys. He was 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:08.120 always arguing with the guy Rolf de Wolf, the you know, 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:11.440 the weird Ventrilocus wolf, you remember this. And then there 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:13.960 was Billy Bob who fortunately he was the brown bear 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:16.080 that would usually keep the peace among the band. 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:18.000 And then you had that was his name. 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:20.240 He was beach Bear, who always seemed high and he 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:24.040 was on the guitar. And then Duke LaRue, the wannabe astronaut, 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:26.800 this idiot mud who always missed his cue on the drums. 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:29.959 Of course you mentioned Mitzi Mozzarella, the cheerleader who shared 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:33.320 my love with Michael Jackson songs. There's one more why 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:35.200 I'm not forgetting this embarrassing Who was the other one? 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:37.119 Yeah? But wasn't there like a drunk bird? 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:37.760 Oh right? 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:41.000 How can I forget Looney Bird, the alcoholic bird who 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:42.920 hung out in that barrel of gas a hall. 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:45.520 What a crew. I know, you look back on it 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:47.800 and it's so weird, Like what in the world were 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:49.080 they thinking with that band? 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:51.520 I don't know, but I loved them, and I was 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:53.640 so scared of them. And you know, I don't know 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:56.440 what it is about dark and weird things that draw 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:58.840 us in. And the thing is, I had no idea 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:01.520 there was an even darker and weirder story playing out 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:04.120 for Showbiz at the time. This was near the end 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:06.760 of the show Biz versus Chuck e Cheese pizza war, 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:09.639 which is such a strange story and it's just one 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:12.280 of the stories that's made us ask the question does 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:14.160 pizza bring out the worst in people? 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:16.880 So that's what we're gonna be talking about today. Let's 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:17.480 get started. 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.680 Hey, their podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:40.840 Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:43.320 friend Mengesh hot Ticketter and on the other side of 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:45.639 that soundproof glass is the man with the most angelic 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:48.760 voice you've never heard, our brilliant producer, Tristan McNeil. 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:51.560 You ready to talk about pizza Mango? I am, And 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:53.600 I know we've been talking about doing a pizza themed 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:55.760 episode for a while now and both of us are 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:58.760 huge pizza lovers. I mean, who's not a pizza lover? 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:01.079 Which is a good point. But it was wild as 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:03.280 we started digging into the research, we just found so 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:07.200 many stories about the dark history of pizza, like pizza 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.880 wars and organized crime, so we decided to focus on those. 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:13.839 We'll take a little break, at least from the dark 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:16.079 side to talk to one of our favorite pizza geniuses. 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:18.160 Yeah, that's right. We'll be talking to Scott Wiener, the 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:21.440 founder of Scott's Pizza Tours, and he's actually the world 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:24.440 record holder for the largest collection of pizza boxes. He's 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:27.200 super interesting and he knows more about pizza history than 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:29.600 anyone I know. He's definitely a pizza genius. 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:31.960 All right, Well, let's dive into our topic. And we 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:34.240 opened the show by talking about show biz and the 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:36.840 fact that I had no idea that by walking into 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:39.920 one of these I was unknowingly participating in one of 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:42.800 the greatest pizza wars of all time and probably would 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:44.839 have made it that much more exciting. So why don't 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:46.040 we start with that one. 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:48.360 Yeah, that's a good one. I mean, it doesn't get 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:50.720 that much juicier than a battle between the creator of 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:53.520 Pong and the inventor of Whack a Mole. No, it 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:54.320 definitely doesn't. 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:55.840 All right, Well, why don't you give us some of 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:57.360 the background on how both Chuck E. 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:01.520 Cheese and Showbiz got started. Cheese was first, and in 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:03.960 fact the first one opened in San Jose, a couple 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:06.760 of years before either of us was born. This was 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:11.000 way back in nineteen seventy seven, and it was actually 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:14.320 started by Nolan Bushnell, the founder of Atari. He's also 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:16.679 the creator of Pong. He came up with the idea 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:18.680 for the restaurant because he was spending so much of 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:22.400 his time selling Atari consoles like to arcades. He thought 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:24.000 there might be more money on the other side of 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.359 the business, on the arcade end, so he dreamed up 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:29.560 this idea for what would become Chuck E. Cheese's Pizza 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:32.240 Time Theater. Well, and I thought it was interesting. I mean, 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:34.240 I think both the animatronic. 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:37.000 Performers and the pizza were part of this concept from 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:39.360 the very beginning. So why don't you talk about those 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:41.160 for just a minute. Yeah, they were, and both were 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:41.880 kind of brilliant. 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:46.440 What's more appetizing than an animatronic rat? Right, Well, I'm 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:49.200 not sure why he chose a rat exactly, but it 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.480 is interesting to hear his thinking on the animatronics. So 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:55.080 he knew parents probably wouldn't be excited to bring their 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:57.839 families to a typical arcade. So he was looking for 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:00.000 a way to bring in some entertainment and make it 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.880 ask much about the environment as it was the arcade games. 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.880 Bushnell did a really interesting interview with The Atlantic a 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:08.440 few years ago, and in it he says this, the 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:11.279 reason for doing the animals was not for the kids. 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:14.159 It was meant to be a headfake for the parents, right. 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:16.240 And so then he also goes on to talk about 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:18.799 the pizza and he explains there aren't too many ways 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:21.000 to screw it up. If the dough is good, the 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:23.360 cheese is good, and the sauce is good, the pizza 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:25.880 is good. I didn't have any preconceived idea that I 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:27.839 knew how to run a restaurant, but I knew simple 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:28.320 was better. 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:30.640 Both seems smart, I mean, it makes sense, all right. 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:33.159 So what happens next, Well, Bushnell. 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:35.240 Feels he's onto something and he wants to expand, so 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:38.799 he starts looking for investors and enter Bob Brock, who's 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:42.360 chairman of the Brock Hotel Corporation and a very successful 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:45.160 franchise e of holiday inns. So the two of them 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:48.360 started working together on a deal to rapidly expand the business, 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:50.800 and Bushnell's job was really to figure out how to 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:53.360 improve the animatronics so these things could be in restaurants 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.360 all over the country if the rollout went well. All right, 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.960 So this is this is around nineteen seventy eight, seventy nine, 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.080 is that right? Yeah, And this is actually where the 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:05.080 drama starts. It was right after these big discussions that 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:08.920 Brock meets this young inventor, Aaron Fector, who's also the 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:11.400 inventor of the Whack a Mole, And in weird timing, 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:13.719 in Fector has been working on this animatronic band he 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:16.680 called the wolf Pack five, and Brock felt they were 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:18.760 much better than what Bushnell was doing. 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:22.880 All right, So Brock gets nervous about this, and he's 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:25.039 kind of uncertain, I guess, about the quality of the 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:27.279 animatronics in Chuck E Cheese. 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:29.800 Exactly, so much so that he actually decides to cancel 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:32.240 his deal with Bushnell, and then he strikes a deal 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:35.240 with Vector to make pretty much the same concept, and 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:37.720 in nineteen eighty the first show his pizza opened in 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:38.520 Kansas City. 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:41.400 That's such a bold move, that's crazy, and you know, 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:43.920 it's weird that they just kept the pizza element as well, 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:45.719 like they didn't seem to try to make it that 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:46.440 much different. 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:48.680 Yeah, but if you think back to the Bushnell quote 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:51.760 about why pizza earlier, it's a simple food. So it 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:53.480 made it easier for them to move quickly. 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:56.120 And I guess that's where a rock of fire explosion 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:58.720 was born, right from the very beginning there. And you know, 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:00.920 at that time, I had no eye idea was watching 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:04.080 such a knockoff act. But if you look at I mean, they. 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:05.880 Kind of just look shady, right they do. 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:08.240 And I'm guessing it didn't take long for the lawsuits 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:09.120 to come after. 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:11.760 That, right, So first Chuck E Cheese suit Showbiz, and 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:15.440 then Showbiz filed a countersuit, and it ultimately settled in 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:18.000 nineteen eighty two, with Showbiz agreeing to pay Chuck E 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:20.760 Cheese a portion of their profits for something like fourteen 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:22.200 or fifteen years. 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:24.480 Well, and you know, this is an interesting time to 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:27.120 be in this business because we talked about this in 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:30.440 our Weird Summer Travel Guide episode. This was around the 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:33.920 time that the video game market experienced a pretty big crash, 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.840 so it was obviously not good for either of these chains. 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:38.680 Yeah, not at all, And In fact, it hit Chuck 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:41.120 E Cheese so hard that Bushnell eventually had to file 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:44.240 for bankruptcy. And you know, after he was forced out 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:46.760 of the company, Chuck E Cheese was acquired by Showviz. 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:50.600 So I guess ultimately mister whackamole won the war here. Yeah, 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:52.840 so it's fair to say he won the battle. But 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:54.040 in the end, they both. 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:54.520 Lost the war. 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:58.160 And how is that? Well, Showviz wasn't exactly thriving, and 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:00.880 in their efforts to improve the company. Per foremance Fector 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:03.680 lost out and he left with the Rock and Fire Bend, 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:06.160 And so that was the last we saw them in showbiz. 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:08.880 Then in nineteen ninety eight, the whole company rebranded as 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:09.960 CEC Entertainment. 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:12.440 Well, and now I see there are more than five 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:14.800 hundred Chuck E Cheese locations around the country. 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:16.120 Yeah, it's still a big deal. 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.920 It definitely is. Well, that's such a weird but interesting story. 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.280 All right, Well, let's talk about another battle where I 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:25.200 found some of the trash talking pretty funny. That was 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:28.200 the result of McDonald's attempt to enter the pizza market, 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:30.360 something I didn't really remember, and this was back in 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:31.160 the late eighties. 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:32.800 Yeah, it's a good one. So why don't you take 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:33.839 this one? All right? 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:36.000 Well, just a little bit of background on this one. 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:38.120 And by the way, there's a great mental flaw story 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:40.600 on this from Jake Rosen, one of our favorite writers there. 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:43.959 So let's go back to the early nineteen eighties. McDonald's 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:47.240 is an absolute giant, and as Jake pointed out, they 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:50.240 owned nearly forty percent of what was then a forty 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:51.479 eight billion. 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:53.160 Dollar burger market, so incredible. 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.240 Well, and they were looking for ways to keep growing 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:58.560 from there, and because they were looking to break into 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:01.280 the dinner game and a much big way, and the 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:04.120 idea of taking over a meal time was not foreign 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:06.199 to them, and they'd done this in the early seventies 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:10.680 when they introduced the egg McMuffin. You know, despite being 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:12.760 mocked by critics, the McMuffin was a. 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:14.720 Huge success, a crush. 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:17.800 Well, their customers would have disagreed. Their customers were really 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:18.360 digging them. 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:20.720 Well, I mean, I guess so you're saying they had 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:21.880 their eyes on dinner though. 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:25.080 Yeah, you know, they'd conquered lunch and breakfast, and next 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:27.720 was figuring out how to get people into their locations 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:31.040 at night because for one reason or another, people saw 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:33.920 burgers and their other offerings as more of a lunch thing, 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:36.960 and that's when they started looking at this rapidly growing 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:39.640 pizza market. And so you look at the late nineteen eighties, 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:41.800 they decided it was time to make a move. So 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:43.640 what they do well, It is important to note that, 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.760 unlike the McMuffin introduction, that this was not going to 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:49.360 be an easy transition when it came to the layout 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.760 of their stores and their kitchen specifically. And this was 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.679 honestly something I'd not really thought about. So first they 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:58.880 had to develop this super quick cook oven and it 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:02.240 wasn't exactly and so you know, in order to include 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:04.839 the oven and other equipment related to it, they had 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:08.400 to remodel their restaurants. And that wasn't actually the only 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:10.840 space problem. Again, something I had not really thought much 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:13.880 about until doing our research here. It was the windows 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:16.040 and their drive through. So think about trying to fit 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:19.440 a full pizza through one of those tiny windows. So 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:21.320 in order to serve the pizza, they'd have to go 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:22.800 back and expand all of them. 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.120 But this didn't stop them from trying, oh not at all, 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:26.480 not at all. 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:28.200 I mean, it might have slowed down the rate at 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:30.600 which they'd try to do some of their early testing. 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:33.200 But in nineteen eighty nine they began testing in a 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:36.000 couple dozen locations in Indiana and Kentucky. 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:39.040 And this is where the trash talking started. Because I 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:40.640 really want to get to the trashoar. 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:42.600 A, right, we'll get to the trash talking. So enter 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:45.960 Pizza Hut. So you know, they had to be at 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:48.520 least a little bit nervous. I mean, they were the 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:52.800 giant in the pizza business, but nobody was bigger than McDonald's, 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:54.440 so this was definitely a threat. 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:56.520 And they had to be ready with some good trash talking. 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:58.160 So would they say, Well, if you look. 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:00.280 Back at one of the regional ads, they warned peaeople, 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:02.959 don't make a mixed steak to get it. 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:04.839 They were really warning people about that. 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:08.440 And then they started talking about their competition's mic frozen dough. 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:11.679 That's such a low blow. I kind of like, how 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:13.560 whenever you want to make fun of McDonald's to go 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:15.960 to is just to add mick in front of anything exactly. 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:17.239 That's why it's so ridiculous. 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:20.040 I mean, I actually, for some reason started thinking about 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:22.840 a brainstorming session at the Pizza Hut headquarters where they 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:25.880 were just like, all right, what should we put Mick 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:26.920 in front of to show. 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:30.080 Those guys who's boss. It'd be like the one genius. 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:32.560 He just rattles off like, hey, don't make a mixed 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:36.000 steak by eating a mcfrozen pizza because it's the mic worst. 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:38.440 And they were all like, that's brilliant. You don't mess 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:39.040 with the hut. 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:42.160 Yeah, that's why they'd hit in the big box. So 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.000 you can tell I've thought about this a little little 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:48.480 too much. So was it the trash talking that ultimately 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:49.559 can the pizza for them? 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:52.000 Well, I doubt that had that much to do with it, 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:55.840 despite how brilliant those micklines were. But I mean it's 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:58.520 not like McDonald's isn't used to some portion of the 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:02.560 population mocking their food. And ultimately there were bigger factors 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:05.520 beyond the restructuring of the restaurants that I mentioned earlier. 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:07.720 So think about prep time. I mean this was a 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:08.600 big factor. 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:11.320 Imagine pulling up to a window and ordering a couple 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:14.920 burgers for one person and pizza for another. So they've 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.640 got the quick burger thing down to a science. I mean, 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:19.840 those suckers are ready in a minute and they're waiting 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:21.959 for you at the window right as you pull up. 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:24.480 But a pizza, even if it's quick, even if it 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:27.160 only takes five minutes, I mean, that feels like an 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:29.880 eternity for people who are used to an almost instant 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:32.880 drive through service. You know. Plus the rest of their 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:35.199 order is just sitting there getting cold as they're waiting 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:35.720 on the pizza. 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:38.200 Yeah, you can see why that'd be a problem. Well, 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:39.880 and the other issue was price. 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:42.440 I mean, it's not like pizzas are expensive in the 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:45.600 broader food market, but when customers are used to spending 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.559 a buck or two parade and mmcdonald's, an eight ninety 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:51.720 nine item feels expensive. The psychology of this, you know, 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:54.800 the pricing of things. It's weird, but it's interesting. 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:56.480 Yeah, So how did it all play out? 0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:59.959 Well, by the early nineteen nineties, pizzas were being served 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.080 in I think about a third of their locations, but 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:06.200 it just wasn't working, and so they disappeared as quickly 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:06.920 as they came. 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:09.800 I mean you might say they were mick history. I've 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:13.200 been practicing. Yeah, I think I need a little break 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:15.480 after that joke. So why don't we get our pizza 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:30.439 genius on the line. 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:33.480 All right, Well, Mago, I know we've been talking about 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:36.440 pizza wars, and later on in the episode it's going 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:38.800 to get even a little bit darker. So I thought 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:41.480 we should take a break and talk about some of 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:42.439 the fun pizza stuff. 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:43.920 We're both huge pizza. 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.800 Fans, and there's obviously plenty of reasons to celebrate pizza. 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:48.599 In fact, I think we'll do another episode in the 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.439 not too distant future about all the fun facts about pizza. 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:52.600 But today we've got. 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:55.920 Scott Wiener on the program. Scott's an insane pizza connoisseur. 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:59.320 He's the owner of Scott's Pizza Tours. He also consults 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:02.800 on pizza park, writes a column for Pizza Today magazine, 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:04.679 sounds qualified all the pizza references. 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:06.760 He judges international. 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.920 Pizza competition and holds the Guinness Book record for the 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.240 largest collection of pizza boxes. 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:14.600 So, Scott, welcome to part time Genius. 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:16.120 Thanks so much for having me. 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:18.319 Hey, so so, one of the first things I heard 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:20.680 about you was that you loved pizza so much you 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:23.120 decided to turn that into a career. How do you 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:26.360 go about making pizza your career? And were people skeptical 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:27.800 when you told them that's what you were doing. 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:31.440 You know, I had no idea what it was going 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:33.400 to be like in the beginning. I just thought, Hey, 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:35.360 wouldn't it be great if I could eat pizza for 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:38.640 a living? You know, I don't know what is it, 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:40.440 but I you know, I was like, well, I can't 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:42.480 do a book. Nobody knows who the heck I am, 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:44.600 and I don't know much, and I can't write a 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:47.120 blog because actually at the time I had no internet 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:49.440 where I lived. And I figured, well, what if we 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:52.800 did something live action? And there's nothing better than live 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:56.440 action doing a tour. So I figured, Oh, take people 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:59.480 around the cool pizza rias, show them the ovens, shows 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:02.640 them the kitchen, we'll eat pizza. I'll explain what's going 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:04.680 on in the kitchen, and it'll be like a live 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:06.920 action food TV show. And that was that. 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:08.440 Oh that's awesome. 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:10.520 I remember you telling us you kind of have a 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:13.200 strict count of how many pizza slices you allow yourself 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:15.680 every week because you're such a pizza fanatic, So what 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:17.040 do you limit yourself to? 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:21.200 So my limit is fifteen slices per week. It begins 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:26.560 Monday mornings loo one am and Sunday night and you 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:28.680 know what, it's really hard to keep to that low 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:32.400 of a limit because I'm exposed to somewhere between four 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:34.800 and ten pizzeri is every day, and so to you 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:38.120 have to say to eight pizzeri is a day. No, 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:41.160 I can't eat the slice right now. It's really tough. 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.240 That's pretty incredible, and you never get sick of it. 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:48.280 I haven't gotten sick of it yet, but I'm always 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:50.520 nervous about it. And that's why I have this limit. 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:53.480 It's just so I don't lose that edge. I want 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.240 to stay interested in pizza. And I'm worried that what 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:58.800 if I go overboard one week and you know when 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:00.800 you're a kid and you ate too many jelly beans 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:03.120 and then he's like candy jelly beans anymore. I don't 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:04.120 want to live that life. 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:09.200 That's pretty great. So I just moved to Atlanta, and 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:11.440 it's not like New York where you can get slices 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:13.400 on every block. And so I was wondering, how do 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:15.400 you plan the perfect pizza crawl in a city you 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:15.800 don't know. 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:18.160 So if I'm planning a pizza crawl in a city 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:20.600 I haven't been to before, I always start by putting 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:24.320 up a post on Twitter on Facebook, Hey, anybody have 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:27.200 ideas for pizzerias? And then I sort of I call 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:31.040 together a list based on the most suggestions I get. 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:34.320 I cross reference that with recommendations people have given me 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:36.880 on my pizza tours, which of course I keep a 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:39.960 long spreadsheet about that, and you know, I kind of 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:42.320 narrow it down to what days of the week are 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:45.920 these pizzerias open, what times are they open? And I 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:48.160 kind of carve out a little route that makes sense. 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:50.200 And I mean, I just got back from a trip 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:52.840 to Detroit last week where all I did for three 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:56.000 days was hit the pizza scene. And I mean I 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.640 hit a ton of pizza a short amount of time, 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:02.280 and it couldn't without intensive preparation. 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:05.040 And Detroit's like a hot scene for pizza right now. 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:08.359 Right So, only in the past few years has it 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:12.080 really become obvious to everyone outside of Detroit that they've 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:14.639 got their own pizza thing going. You know, if you 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:17.760 ask anybody ten years ago, where do you get pizza 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:21.400 in America? They say, well, it's New York and it's Chicago. 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:23.720 And the people who knew a little bit better would say, oh, 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:26.560 and New Haven, Connecticut. But now we're starting to see 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:30.720