WEBVTT - White-On-White Crime ft. Michael Harriot | Angela Rye SoloPod 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.720 Native Lanmdpod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:10.600 Reason Choice Media. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Hello everyone, 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:13.880 and welcome home. This is another edition of Native lamppod. 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:16.759 I am your host, Angela Rai and know my co 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:19.400 hosts aren't here because this is a solo pod. Y'all. 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:22.320 We have to have a conversation. It's a very important one. 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:25.599 It's about white on white crime. And the reason why 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:27.800 we need to have the conversation about white on white 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:33.159 crime is because often there is something about gang violence 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:36.040 that is talked about. And when you hear gang violence, 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:38.959 too many of us see the faces of black and 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:43.760 brown people in our minds. We don't always ascribe gang 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:49.159 violence to white vigilantes, to people who are white supremacists 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:53.720 or engage in white toxic toxicity. And that ideology that 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:57.319 follows what we know right now is that there is 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:03.160 a growing set of individuals who have almost like gang 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:07.720 like affiliations and these individuals are very, very dangerous to 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:11.039 this country's present and certainly its future. But we can 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:13.839 look back at history to see that there is nothing 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:17.040 new under the sun, as the Bible says, and unfortunately, 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:19.760 for us, we have not learned from the history that 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:23.200 they continue to try to snatch out of museums. So 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:27.640 joining me today is a legend. He is my brother, 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.199 he is my friend, really become we became cousins first, 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:34.720 and that's because the first PC ever wrote referencing me, 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:38.200 he called me cousin Angela. Like so many of people say, 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:40.120 I'm your cousin in your head, and it is my 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:42.560 highest honor. There's nothing more that I love more than 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:45.080 to be your cousin in your head. But Michael Harriet 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:46.959 is now my brother in real life. He is my 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:50.600 chosen family. He is a New York Times best selling 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:54.920 author of Black af history. And we cannot look at 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:58.520 where we are right now without looking back on history 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:02.760 and how this same toxic ideology has reared its ugly 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:07.040 head throughout this country's treacherous past. In order for us 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:09.160 to stop it, we have to call attention to it. 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:11.920 So let's bring Michael Harriet to the stage. 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:17.040 Hello, Hey me, it is. 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:18.840 My highest honor. So I'm gonna tell y'all all the 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:22.160 business before we get into the history of this. Michael, 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:25.600 I just want to say thank you. You always find 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:29.920 a way to bring pros to our pain. You always 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:34.760 find a way to ground us in the reality that 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:37.880 exists outside of these folks gaslighting us, and I just 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:40.880 thank you for that. I also want to acknowledge y'all, 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:44.880 when I was doing specials on BT New Specials on BT, 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:47.520 the first person I thought of, I was like, I 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:50.320 have to get Michael Harriet on this writing team. Michael 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:52.680 Harriet was the writing room y'all. Talk about Tyler Perry, 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:55.480 this one can also crack them out, Okay. So I 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.560 just want to thank you Michael for being someone who 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:03.080 could bring better words to my thoughts and always just 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:05.760 helping us to really ground ourselves on paper. So thank 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:06.320 you for all you do. 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:09.120 Brother, Yeah, and thank you for all you do. I remember, 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:11.520 as a matter of fact, you know, that was like 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:18.360 seven eight years ago today, and I just remember because 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:20.959 I thought it was kind of a crazy idea. First 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:23.120 of all, you hired me and to the idea that 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:26.520 you had, like, hey, we're going to make a special 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:30.280 and the theme of this special is going to be 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:34.240 that what if the government just forgives of all our 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:35.920 student loans? And I thought it was a crazy idea 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:37.520 that I was like, I'll write it, but you know 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:39.680 that'll never happen. And look at where we are now. 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:42.280 I mean, I love that, Michael. That is so true. 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:44.440 I forgot about that when what we did other ones too. 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:48.360 We did one the first election. That was the other one. 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:51.960 But y'all like again, Michael, I cannot think of a 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:54.160 time where I don't read something you wrot And I'm like, yes, 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:57.040 that is exactly how I feel. And true to the part, 0:03:57.080 --> 0:03:59.040 I wish I would have been smart enough to bring 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:00.680 my book out. It's sitting right there. I might go, 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:02.400 where's your book? If you don't have your book, I'm 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:05.480 going to get my book. I'm going to get in 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:07.200 this right here. Hold on, it's right here. You're gonna 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:13.160 be mad, y'all keep talking to him, Mike, hold on, Okay, 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:16.479 I'm back, Okay. So I wanted to get this one 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:18.240 because humble bragg As I told you all, this is 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:21.359 chosen family. So Michael Harriet is still on the New 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:23.600 York Times Bestsellers Live. How long has it been, Michael? 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:25.119 Two years? This week? 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:29.400 How about that for didn't earn and he earned every 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.160 single position. He's hell, my voice already gone, is about 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.320 to get worse. So I wanted to just bring this 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:38.279 out because you wrote a great piece last week about 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:42.640 what happened in Utah. Our leftist coming for you. Here's 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:44.720 what the data says about political violence. I want to 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:49.920 get to that, but before we do, Michael, here's my thing. 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:54.880 We know in our nation's history, when something happens, it's 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:58.520 like blame the Negroes, right, Like, whatever happens, it don't 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:01.479 matter if it's in South Dakota, North Coda, Montana. I had 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:04.960 a whole Utah whatever it is our fault because we 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.760 were born and somehow ended up in the belly of 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:11.239 a slave ship. They don't know how or several because 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:15.960 we're here, because we exist, because our DNA is gates 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:18.800 like Henrietta Alex it's our fault. So I just wanted 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:21.159 to deepen into that for a moment, because you know, 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:26.039 after this killing last week, I'm gonna try really hard 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:29.520 not to say names. After this killing last week, it 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:32.840 was almost immediate that like there was a brown or 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:38.520 black leftist that was responsible for this brutal killing. And 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:42.560 so I wanted to think back in history on times 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:45.560 where they have also accused us of wrongdoing. And in 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:52.000 response to that accusation, there's been an outsized consequence for 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.680 our people. I know you talk about this in the 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:57.320 book over and over again, and so I just wanted 0:05:57.360 --> 0:05:59.719 to start there because I think, especially if they're going 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:01.839 to take our history out of museums and off the 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:04.400 alpha books they go, if they haven't been this yet, 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:07.960 it's close, at least in some school districts. I'm certain 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:10.279 it already is. But I think that we should talk 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:14.560 about why this feels so familiar, especially epigenetically for black people. 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:17.640 Something about where we are in this moment feels familiar, 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:20.720 and it's because we carry the DNA of our ancestors. 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:24.400 Yeah, I mean, when you look at history, it's clear 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:28.160 you know who is you know, when you even that 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:32.280 most of the racial MAXs because in history, right, they 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:35.599 were using us as scapegoats for you know, a beef 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:40.239 between white people, right, Like the Confederates were mad because 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:45.760 they succeeded and the Union Army whipped their butts, and 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:49.560 we were caught in between that, right, But we have 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:53.039 nothing to do with them succeeding. We didn't have nothing 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:55.560 to do with you know, the Union Army didn't even 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:59.719 want us involved in the first place. It was the 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:03.599 luddiest war in the history of this continent was really 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:08.039 just white or white violence when you look at many 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:14.440 of even during slavery, after slavery, during reconstruction, you know, 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:18.360 the Polk War in North Carolina, that was just white 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:20.280 or white crime, and then they killed a lot of 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:24.640 black people. The same thing in South Carolina. The reason 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:30.400 for the eighteen seventy six election that caused Jim directly 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:35.119 led to Jim Crow was like a white violent dude, 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:38.720 Wadehampton third in South Carolina, had an army called the 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:42.560 Red Shirts that was going around killing black people. And 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:47.080 then he, you know, overturned the results of the election, 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:51.760 which caused South Carolina to withhold its electoral votes. And 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:54.080 it's the only time in the history of this country 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:57.040 that an election wasn't chosen by the popular vote or 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:59.480 the electoral college. They just got fifteen men in the 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.920 room and saying, hey, if you let us treat let 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:05.720 the South treat black people how we want, we'll let 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:09.640 the Republican Garfield be governor. And that's how we got 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:13.400 Jim Crow. And so you know, we are always taking 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:16.640 the brunt of this white or white violence. And it's 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:21.400 the same today. You know, a black person didn't try 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:24.880 to assassinate Donald Trump. Right, A black person didn't walk 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:29.160 into that synagogue. A black person didn't put pipe bombs 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:32.840 in by the US Capitol, we didn't storm the capitol. 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:36.800 We know who did it. The FBI reports, all the 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:40.720 data shows who did it. Yet we're the ones whose 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:44.240 cities are being occupied by soldiers. We're the ones who 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:47.400 are blamed for all of the violence in America because 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:52.080 there's that very narrow definition of violence that they created 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:54.600 and used for their own ends. 0:08:55.360 --> 0:09:00.960 Yeah, and I guess I wonder like, why is that 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:06.080 the default? Is it an unwillingness to take accountability to 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:07.960 you know, want to look in the mirror? Is it 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:12.400 because you know, we hear that white folks say they 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.080 are talking about how they preserve their race. Right now, 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:17.880 you know, there's a town that was recently established all 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:21.880 white town. There's white vigilantes marching down the street in 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:24.760 Huntington Beach right now. Like, what is the thing that 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:27.840 is driving this narrative? And I think we could probably 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:31.480 argue that that is historically, what, you know, the same 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:33.520 thing that it drove the narrative in the past. 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:36.400 Yeah, I think it's a combination of things. Right, So 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:40.520 one is a phrase that I call the privilege of individuality. 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.760 So when a white person does something, they see it 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:47.320 as that person did a thing, and it doesn't have 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:49.400 any bearing on me. It's not what white people do, 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:52.000 it's what that person did. Right. So when we look 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:54.920 at the data, we see that white people are responsible 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:58.160 for most takee. Crimes, white people are responsible for most 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:03.920 political violence, but they see that as individual acts of 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:10.040 different people, and they see crime in Chicago as a 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:13.960 whole different thing than crime. And you know, the most uh, 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:19.560 the city in America with the most crime is all 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:24.800 white town in Florida. And they don't send soldiers there, right, 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:30.600 It's it's literally has eight black people in the whole town, right, 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:35.240 But they don't send black people there. I can't remember 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:39.360 the name of Evergreen, Florida, but yeah, they don't send 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:42.680 people there. They send people to the black cities because 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:45.079 that's who they think is committing the crime. 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:48.320 Wow, I'm looking you know, I'm looking this up right 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:49.640 now because I want to get it right. We're gonna 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:54.319 make sure y'all have the facts. 0:10:54.720 --> 0:11:00.000 Yeah, no, I'm I'm I'm I'll find it in one second. 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.640 It because I started actually writing about it, which is 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:08.439 how I got this data about political violence. So it's 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:13.240 called Bellevue. So it's Bellevue, Florida and Marion County, Florida. 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:18.719 It is eighty three percent white, fourteen percent Hispanic. It's 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:22.679 got eight black people. Kamala Harris lost it by forty 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:27.040 one point, so it's very maga and it has twice 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:32.880 the violent crime rate and as Chicago or any other city. 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:36.160 And you know, people are always surprised when like Chicago 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:39.720 ranks like one hundred and twenty first among cities and 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:45.240 six hundred and twenty first among all municipalities for violent crime. 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:47.959 It's just a thing that white people made up and 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:49.480 have us believe. 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:53.360 Right, And I think that to this point, and this 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:55.920 is what I want to get back to around language. 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:58.360 We know in this country, at least right now, we 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:02.240 have First Amendment protections first speech for free speech. And 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:06.200 one of the things that people don't always realize is 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:08.680 that what is not protected by the First Amendment is 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:12.520 speech that incites violence. At least it's not supposed to be. However, 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:14.840 Michael Harriet, I don't know if you've already done the 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:18.160 research on this, because you are very data driven journalists, 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:20.960 but I'm curious to know why white folks are carved 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:24.880 out of that incitement of violence bubble. You know, even 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:28.480 with the killing last week, the man who had lost 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:32.040 his life regularly incited violence. And I also think that 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:37.760 it's interesting the president, the current sitting president, has utilized 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:41.160 the bully pulpit to incite violence, including the insurrection on 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:44.400 January sixth, twenty twenty one. Why do you think they're 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:47.839 given a pass or they are the speech that they 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:51.120 use that would incite violence or cause individuals to be 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:54.440 targeted is not seen that way when literally some of 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:57.920 the same rhetoric they use is what resulted in, you know, 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:01.800 the lynching of an innocent black or black woman, you know, 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:05.280 back in the day. Why is their speech, their violent speech, 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:06.480 not deemed as such? 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:14.360 Well, because those protections, those constitutional protections haven't just been 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:19.480 traditionally historically afforded to them. Right. They all what frame 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:26.440 our definition of incitement or a riot? Right? So for instance, 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:29.360 I mean we all know, well I hope your listeners know. 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:34.320 You know, the only person who was imprisoned during the 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:37.760 Civil Rights era for the most violent event of the 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:42.880 Civil Rights era was Cleveland Sellers Becari Sellers father, and 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:47.280 he was not imprisoned for any act. He was imprisoned 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:56.839 for talking to nonviolent protesters and charged with inciting a riot. 0:13:56.960 --> 0:14:00.320 But those people, they didn't burn anything, They didn't you know, 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:04.560 kill anybody. The police killed black people, and he was 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:08.320 charged with in inciting the riot that made the police 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:13.760 open fire on black college students. And it's because that 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:19.480 was a riot to them, right. But January sixth is again, 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.200 according to the privilege of individuality, a bunch of people 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:24.960 who was just doing a bunch of different things white people, 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:28.960 even though there were ninety six percent white. They were 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:33.960 individual acts. So when they are incited to do stuff, right, 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:37.320 it wasn't Trump's fault. It wasn't the person who said 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:39.680 the thing. It wasn't the person who told them, Hey, 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:45.800 come here and stand on this capital quotunda with all 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:49.160 of these other people and walk up here and come 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:51.840 in there and stop this vote. It wasn't his fault, right, 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:54.920 Like literally the name of the thing was stopped to steal. 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:59.040 But it wasn't his fault, right. And so we know 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.400 that the law can be kind of jerry rig to 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:07.000 fit whatever narrative you want, because you know, one of 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:10.320 the questions we ask ourselves. I ask often is what 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:14.440 is violence? Right? Is it violent too? It's violent to 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:18.600 stab somebody on the train, right, But it's not violent 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:23.680 to withhold mental health care from somebody for their entire 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:27.600 life and then not offer them the services that we 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:31.320 know could help him. Is that violence? Right? Is it 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:35.720 violent to withhold health care from people because of because 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:40.200 they are poor? But not you know, but give all 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:43.960 the white people in rural America AK forty seven's or 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:48.200 AR fifteens? Right? Which one of those things is violent? Well? Violent? 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:51.840 You know, more people die from guns and lack of 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.920 health care than you know, being in gangs or from 0:15:56.000 --> 0:16:00.080 gang violence. But we classify one as violence and the 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:00.720 other is not. 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:14.040 That is fascinating. That is so fascinating, Like, how do 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:19.000 we reimagine what violence really is, particularly in a country 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.680 where the gap between the haves and the have nots 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:27.040 is increasing and it's by design? So intent is there? 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.320 Intent is normally a factor for some of the most 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:34.040 severe crimes. So how is that not violence? I think 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:37.120 it's such a fascinating proposition. So when you go into 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:42.800 you know, what history says about riots or uprisings, what 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:45.680 history says about lynchings, excuse me, and the reasons for 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:48.880 that my voice is not the best. When you think 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:51.200 about all of that and you fast forward to right now, 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:54.800 there is a growing divide in this country between halves 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.400 and the have nots. But Michael, there also seems to 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:02.760 be a growing divide between like white supremacist ideology and 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:05.480 like this other pocket where they are also racists too. 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:10.040 Definitely have from some racist underpinning, some racial racist beliefs. 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:13.320 You know, the man who was killed last week had 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:15.120 a lot to say about our dear sister and friend 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:18.399 joy Read and her intellect, right, which I feel like 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:22.119 is also violent because it's an attack on someone's personhood, 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:25.000 their humanity, and their ability to earn what they deserve 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:27.560 in this country. So when you think about all of 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:32.040 those things, what is the right response to this moment? 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:34.520 How do we how do we show up one to 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.080 protect ourselves? Because I don't know that we're out of 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:41.280 the woods from last week. I don't know that just 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:46.160 because they found that the killer is one of them, 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:50.600 I don't know that that means that we are now Okay. 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:53.399 I think that there was a reprieve. I want to 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:54.080 hear what you think. 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:56.280 Yeah, I think I think that is correct, But I 0:17:56.320 --> 0:18:00.320 also think that we have to remember that, like, you know, 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:05.440 Charlie Kirk on his best days had about like five 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:08.679 hundred thousand listeners to his podcast. It is, you know, 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:12.479 consuming his stuff. And so all these people that we 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:17.239 see defending Charlie Kirk were not Charlie Kirk fans. They 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:21.080 didn't listen to him. It is impossible for five hundred 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:25.639 thousand people like to make that much noise and to 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:30.120 issue that much threat over the entire government. What we're 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:35.920 seeing though, is that these people believed what Charlie Kirk believed, 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:38.359 and now they have an avatar. So I don't even 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:41.119 know if it's correct to say that there's a rise 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:45.960 in this white supremacist ideology. Maybe they've believed it all 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:50.040 the time and just hit it because it was not, 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:55.600 you know, acceptable to do so, and now it is, 0:18:56.080 --> 0:19:00.360 and it is because of people like Charlie Kirk and 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:03.119 his other followers, or that guy and his other followers. 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:08.240 They have made it acceptable to say, well, you know, 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:13.800 the black women, they must have gotten DEI, a college 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:18.160 dropout is saying that about somebody who attended the institution. 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:21.160 That white people found it right, that white people said 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:25.800 it is the best institution, right, not us. Right. They 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:30.600 made the rules, they constructed the whole admissions policy, and 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:35.080 they accepted a black person, and then the white people say, well, 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:38.879 you know that's anti white, right, that's the narrative that 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:42.879 we're living under. And the other thing about this kind 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:48.680 of rhetoric, though, is that it is not just freeing 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:52.800 for people who had this ideology all the time, right, 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:56.560 But you have to look at it in combination with 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:59.840 what else is going on. So the thing a lot 0:19:59.880 --> 0:20:03.880 of the things that prevent people from accepting or adopting 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:07.159 this ideology, it's knowing history and knowing the facts that 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:10.120 we just talked about. Well, if they are erasing the facts, 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:14.879 and if they're erasing the history, right, what is that cause? Right? Like, 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:17.879 if you don't know about redlining, you might believe, like 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:19.439 all the black people just want to live in their 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:22.680 own neighborhood so they can commit violence against each other. Right, 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:27.199 if you don't know about how white a generation of 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:31.280 white people was giving access to the largest government program 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:35.199 in America in world history, the New Deal, while white 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:37.680 black people were excluded, you might think that black people 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:41.560 are poor because they're lazy, like black schools are underfunded 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:47.200 because black people don't care. And so once you erase 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:52.000 the actual truth and the history from public or make 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:55.600 it create one more obstacle for them to find out 0:20:55.600 --> 0:21:00.440 the truth because they can't erase our history, and people 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:04.400 who don't necessarily care about black people will just adopt 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:06.639 the thing that they hear on the podcast from a 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:09.760 dude who's on the internet, versus going to look in 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:12.600 their library and read a book and find out the truth. 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:18.040 Let me ask you about So there are some people 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:23.560 that have been categorizing this as right versus left, but 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:26.960 I still think that your frame around white versus white 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:31.560 is correct. And the reason for that, Michael, is if 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:35.720 you look at who responded to the death last week, 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:38.800 it wasn't just people on the right. There were white 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:43.879 people on the alleged left, white moderates who felt a 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:47.640 sense of empathy, who thought that flag should fly at 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:53.800 half mass, who think that school districts should hear about him, 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:58.760 that there should be moments of silence at professionals sports 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:01.879 games at the NFL. In NFL games, New Orleans Saints 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:06.080 boot this by the way, But like you're seeing that, 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:13.240 it isn't just a right wing response of regret and 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:15.840 maybe they would say, well, this is what stability looks like, 0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:19.080 which I can appreciate, right, But I'm also curious to 0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:21.679 know if you think that this is this moment is 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:25.960 a convergence of what white supremacy looks like. It is 0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:29.600 a nonpartisan and a bipartisan ideology, and we've seen it 0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:31.000 in both parties historically. 0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:35.280 Yeah, I think that's true, because you know, to believe 0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:38.680 that this is a thing that is right versus left, 0:22:38.680 --> 0:22:40.879 and you'd have to believe, like, you know, all the 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:43.720 stuff that they say about black culture and how you 0:22:43.720 --> 0:22:48.080 should raise your kids, that white Republican family did that 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:52.600 to the dude who killed another white Republican, Right, they 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:55.399 all the stuff that they say about culture and guns 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:59.439 don't kill people, crazy people kill people, and a white 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:03.560 dude would guns killed another white dude who loves guns, right, 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:07.800 and left versus right had nothing to do with it. 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:12.000 Politics had nothing to do with it. Because when you 0:23:12.040 --> 0:23:15.080 think about this, what they're saying is that if you 0:23:15.160 --> 0:23:20.080 don't agree with one of the most racist Republicans, then 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:22.720 you must be on the left. Because I don't agree 0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:27.680 with most Democrats on a lot of issues, right y, 0:23:28.040 --> 0:23:31.080 and I ain't gonna kill them, but I'm still on 0:23:31.119 --> 0:23:35.159 the left right. So like if I disagree with something 0:23:35.240 --> 0:23:39.240 Joe Biden did, I won't not only will I not 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:42.080 kill them, but that doesn't exclude me from being on 0:23:42.119 --> 0:23:47.480 the left right while in their minds because they want 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:51.840 to use it as pretext to silence us anyway, Right, 0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:55.560 so if the facts kind of don't matter, and debating 0:23:55.640 --> 0:24:00.560 the intimate details of these facts kind of you know, 0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:04.960 overlook or miss or ignore the reality of what they 0:24:04.960 --> 0:24:08.120 are trying to do, like something didn't care about Charlie Kirk. 0:24:08.440 --> 0:24:11.600 He wanted to use this as pretext to crack down 0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:14.200 on his opposition anyway. 0:24:16.040 --> 0:24:21.520 Do you think that I'm trying to be careful about 0:24:21.520 --> 0:24:23.600 how I phrase things? Do you think that we are 0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:27.840 in at the beginning of you know, I don't even 0:24:27.840 --> 0:24:29.400 know if it's at the beginning micro I can't even 0:24:29.440 --> 0:24:31.080 ask this question right, Here's what I want to know. 0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:36.280 How do you think that they will continue to use 0:24:36.880 --> 0:24:42.960 this tragedy to silence voices who have been courageous on 0:24:43.400 --> 0:24:46.920 many issues? We are watching people get fired some of 0:24:46.960 --> 0:24:48.960 the things that folks have done. I would also say 0:24:49.000 --> 0:24:50.480 that was tack it, that was out of pocket. I 0:24:50.480 --> 0:24:52.679