Speaker 1: Native Lanmdpod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Speaker 1: Reason Choice Media. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Hello everyone,
Speaker 1: and welcome home. This is another edition of Native lamppod.
Speaker 1: I am your host, Angela Rai and know my co
Speaker 1: hosts aren't here because this is a solo pod. Y'all.
Speaker 1: We have to have a conversation. It's a very important one.
Speaker 1: It's about white on white crime. And the reason why
Speaker 1: we need to have the conversation about white on white
Speaker 1: crime is because often there is something about gang violence
Speaker 1: that is talked about. And when you hear gang violence,
Speaker 1: too many of us see the faces of black and
Speaker 1: brown people in our minds. We don't always ascribe gang
Speaker 1: violence to white vigilantes, to people who are white supremacists
Speaker 1: or engage in white toxic toxicity. And that ideology that
Speaker 1: follows what we know right now is that there is
Speaker 1: a growing set of individuals who have almost like gang
Speaker 1: like affiliations and these individuals are very, very dangerous to
Speaker 1: this country's present and certainly its future. But we can
Speaker 1: look back at history to see that there is nothing
Speaker 1: new under the sun, as the Bible says, and unfortunately,
Speaker 1: for us, we have not learned from the history that
Speaker 1: they continue to try to snatch out of museums. So
Speaker 1: joining me today is a legend. He is my brother,
Speaker 1: he is my friend, really become we became cousins first,
Speaker 1: and that's because the first PC ever wrote referencing me,
Speaker 1: he called me cousin Angela. Like so many of people say,
Speaker 1: I'm your cousin in your head, and it is my
Speaker 1: highest honor. There's nothing more that I love more than
Speaker 1: to be your cousin in your head. But Michael Harriet
Speaker 1: is now my brother in real life. He is my
Speaker 1: chosen family. He is a New York Times best selling
Speaker 1: author of Black af history. And we cannot look at
Speaker 1: where we are right now without looking back on history
Speaker 1: and how this same toxic ideology has reared its ugly
Speaker 1: head throughout this country's treacherous past. In order for us
Speaker 1: to stop it, we have to call attention to it.
Speaker 1: So let's bring Michael Harriet to the stage.
Speaker 2: Hello, Hey me, it is.
Speaker 1: My highest honor. So I'm gonna tell y'all all the
Speaker 1: business before we get into the history of this. Michael,
Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you. You always find
Speaker 1: a way to bring pros to our pain. You always
Speaker 1: find a way to ground us in the reality that
Speaker 1: exists outside of these folks gaslighting us, and I just
Speaker 1: thank you for that. I also want to acknowledge y'all,
Speaker 1: when I was doing specials on BT New Specials on BT,
Speaker 1: the first person I thought of, I was like, I
Speaker 1: have to get Michael Harriet on this writing team. Michael
Speaker 1: Harriet was the writing room y'all. Talk about Tyler Perry,
Speaker 1: this one can also crack them out, Okay. So I
Speaker 1: just want to thank you Michael for being someone who
Speaker 1: could bring better words to my thoughts and always just
Speaker 1: helping us to really ground ourselves on paper. So thank
Speaker 1: you for all you do.
Speaker 2: Brother, Yeah, and thank you for all you do. I remember,
Speaker 2: as a matter of fact, you know, that was like
Speaker 2: seven eight years ago today, and I just remember because
Speaker 2: I thought it was kind of a crazy idea. First
Speaker 2: of all, you hired me and to the idea that
Speaker 2: you had, like, hey, we're going to make a special
Speaker 2: and the theme of this special is going to be
Speaker 2: that what if the government just forgives of all our
Speaker 2: student loans? And I thought it was a crazy idea
Speaker 2: that I was like, I'll write it, but you know
Speaker 2: that'll never happen. And look at where we are now.
Speaker 1: I mean, I love that, Michael. That is so true.
Speaker 1: I forgot about that when what we did other ones too.
Speaker 1: We did one the first election. That was the other one.
Speaker 1: But y'all like again, Michael, I cannot think of a
Speaker 1: time where I don't read something you wrot And I'm like, yes,
Speaker 1: that is exactly how I feel. And true to the part,
Speaker 1: I wish I would have been smart enough to bring
Speaker 1: my book out. It's sitting right there. I might go,
Speaker 1: where's your book? If you don't have your book, I'm
Speaker 1: going to get my book. I'm going to get in
Speaker 1: this right here. Hold on, it's right here. You're gonna
Speaker 1: be mad, y'all keep talking to him, Mike, hold on, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm back, Okay. So I wanted to get this one
Speaker 1: because humble bragg As I told you all, this is
Speaker 1: chosen family. So Michael Harriet is still on the New
Speaker 1: York Times Bestsellers Live. How long has it been, Michael?
Speaker 2: Two years? This week?
Speaker 1: How about that for didn't earn and he earned every
Speaker 1: single position. He's hell, my voice already gone, is about
Speaker 1: to get worse. So I wanted to just bring this
Speaker 1: out because you wrote a great piece last week about
Speaker 1: what happened in Utah. Our leftist coming for you. Here's
Speaker 1: what the data says about political violence. I want to
Speaker 1: get to that, but before we do, Michael, here's my thing.
Speaker 1: We know in our nation's history, when something happens, it's
Speaker 1: like blame the Negroes, right, Like, whatever happens, it don't
Speaker 1: matter if it's in South Dakota, North Coda, Montana. I had
Speaker 1: a whole Utah whatever it is our fault because we
Speaker 1: were born and somehow ended up in the belly of
Speaker 1: a slave ship. They don't know how or several because
Speaker 1: we're here, because we exist, because our DNA is gates
Speaker 1: like Henrietta Alex it's our fault. So I just wanted
Speaker 1: to deepen into that for a moment, because you know,
Speaker 1: after this killing last week, I'm gonna try really hard
Speaker 1: not to say names. After this killing last week, it
Speaker 1: was almost immediate that like there was a brown or
Speaker 1: black leftist that was responsible for this brutal killing. And
Speaker 1: so I wanted to think back in history on times
Speaker 1: where they have also accused us of wrongdoing. And in
Speaker 1: response to that accusation, there's been an outsized consequence for
Speaker 1: our people. I know you talk about this in the
Speaker 1: book over and over again, and so I just wanted
Speaker 1: to start there because I think, especially if they're going
Speaker 1: to take our history out of museums and off the
Speaker 1: alpha books they go, if they haven't been this yet,
Speaker 1: it's close, at least in some school districts. I'm certain
Speaker 1: it already is. But I think that we should talk
Speaker 1: about why this feels so familiar, especially epigenetically for black people.
Speaker 1: Something about where we are in this moment feels familiar,
Speaker 1: and it's because we carry the DNA of our ancestors.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, when you look at history, it's clear
Speaker 2: you know who is you know, when you even that
Speaker 2: most of the racial MAXs because in history, right, they
Speaker 2: were using us as scapegoats for you know, a beef
Speaker 2: between white people, right, Like the Confederates were mad because
Speaker 2: they succeeded and the Union Army whipped their butts, and
Speaker 2: we were caught in between that, right, But we have
Speaker 2: nothing to do with them succeeding. We didn't have nothing
Speaker 2: to do with you know, the Union Army didn't even
Speaker 2: want us involved in the first place. It was the
Speaker 2: luddiest war in the history of this continent was really
Speaker 2: just white or white violence when you look at many
Speaker 2: of even during slavery, after slavery, during reconstruction, you know,
Speaker 2: the Polk War in North Carolina, that was just white
Speaker 2: or white crime, and then they killed a lot of
Speaker 2: black people. The same thing in South Carolina. The reason
Speaker 2: for the eighteen seventy six election that caused Jim directly
Speaker 2: led to Jim Crow was like a white violent dude,
Speaker 2: Wadehampton third in South Carolina, had an army called the
Speaker 2: Red Shirts that was going around killing black people. And
Speaker 2: then he, you know, overturned the results of the election,
Speaker 2: which caused South Carolina to withhold its electoral votes. And
Speaker 2: it's the only time in the history of this country
Speaker 2: that an election wasn't chosen by the popular vote or
Speaker 2: the electoral college. They just got fifteen men in the
Speaker 2: room and saying, hey, if you let us treat let
Speaker 2: the South treat black people how we want, we'll let
Speaker 2: the Republican Garfield be governor. And that's how we got
Speaker 2: Jim Crow. And so you know, we are always taking
Speaker 2: the brunt of this white or white violence. And it's
Speaker 2: the same today. You know, a black person didn't try
Speaker 2: to assassinate Donald Trump. Right, A black person didn't walk
Speaker 2: into that synagogue. A black person didn't put pipe bombs
Speaker 2: in by the US Capitol, we didn't storm the capitol.
Speaker 2: We know who did it. The FBI reports, all the
Speaker 2: data shows who did it. Yet we're the ones whose
Speaker 2: cities are being occupied by soldiers. We're the ones who
Speaker 2: are blamed for all of the violence in America because
Speaker 2: there's that very narrow definition of violence that they created
Speaker 2: and used for their own ends.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I guess I wonder like, why is that
Speaker 1: the default? Is it an unwillingness to take accountability to
Speaker 1: you know, want to look in the mirror? Is it
Speaker 1: because you know, we hear that white folks say they
Speaker 1: are talking about how they preserve their race. Right now,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a town that was recently established all
Speaker 1: white town. There's white vigilantes marching down the street in
Speaker 1: Huntington Beach right now. Like, what is the thing that
Speaker 1: is driving this narrative? And I think we could probably
Speaker 1: argue that that is historically, what, you know, the same
Speaker 1: thing that it drove the narrative in the past.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a combination of things. Right, So
Speaker 2: one is a phrase that I call the privilege of individuality.
Speaker 2: So when a white person does something, they see it
Speaker 2: as that person did a thing, and it doesn't have
Speaker 2: any bearing on me. It's not what white people do,
Speaker 2: it's what that person did. Right. So when we look
Speaker 2: at the data, we see that white people are responsible
Speaker 2: for most takee. Crimes, white people are responsible for most
Speaker 2: political violence, but they see that as individual acts of
Speaker 2: different people, and they see crime in Chicago as a
Speaker 2: whole different thing than crime. And you know, the most uh,
Speaker 2: the city in America with the most crime is all
Speaker 2: white town in Florida. And they don't send soldiers there, right,
Speaker 2: It's it's literally has eight black people in the whole town, right,
Speaker 2: But they don't send black people there. I can't remember
Speaker 2: the name of Evergreen, Florida, but yeah, they don't send
Speaker 2: people there. They send people to the black cities because
Speaker 2: that's who they think is committing the crime.
Speaker 1: Wow, I'm looking you know, I'm looking this up right
Speaker 1: now because I want to get it right. We're gonna
Speaker 1: make sure y'all have the facts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'm I'm I'm I'll find it in one second.
Speaker 2: It because I started actually writing about it, which is
Speaker 2: how I got this data about political violence. So it's
Speaker 2: called Bellevue. So it's Bellevue, Florida and Marion County, Florida.
Speaker 2: It is eighty three percent white, fourteen percent Hispanic. It's
Speaker 2: got eight black people. Kamala Harris lost it by forty
Speaker 2: one point, so it's very maga and it has twice
Speaker 2: the violent crime rate and as Chicago or any other city.
Speaker 2: And you know, people are always surprised when like Chicago
Speaker 2: ranks like one hundred and twenty first among cities and
Speaker 2: six hundred and twenty first among all municipalities for violent crime.
Speaker 2: It's just a thing that white people made up and
Speaker 2: have us believe.
Speaker 1: Right, And I think that to this point, and this
Speaker 1: is what I want to get back to around language.
Speaker 1: We know in this country, at least right now, we
Speaker 1: have First Amendment protections first speech for free speech. And
Speaker 1: one of the things that people don't always realize is
Speaker 1: that what is not protected by the First Amendment is
Speaker 1: speech that incites violence. At least it's not supposed to be. However,
Speaker 1: Michael Harriet, I don't know if you've already done the
Speaker 1: research on this, because you are very data driven journalists,
Speaker 1: but I'm curious to know why white folks are carved
Speaker 1: out of that incitement of violence bubble. You know, even
Speaker 1: with the killing last week, the man who had lost
Speaker 1: his life regularly incited violence. And I also think that
Speaker 1: it's interesting the president, the current sitting president, has utilized
Speaker 1: the bully pulpit to incite violence, including the insurrection on
Speaker 1: January sixth, twenty twenty one. Why do you think they're
Speaker 1: given a pass or they are the speech that they
Speaker 1: use that would incite violence or cause individuals to be
Speaker 1: targeted is not seen that way when literally some of
Speaker 1: the same rhetoric they use is what resulted in, you know,
Speaker 1: the lynching of an innocent black or black woman, you know,
Speaker 1: back in the day. Why is their speech, their violent speech,
Speaker 1: not deemed as such?
Speaker 2: Well, because those protections, those constitutional protections haven't just been
Speaker 2: traditionally historically afforded to them. Right. They all what frame
Speaker 2: our definition of incitement or a riot? Right? So for instance,
Speaker 2: I mean we all know, well I hope your listeners know.
Speaker 2: You know, the only person who was imprisoned during the
Speaker 2: Civil Rights era for the most violent event of the
Speaker 2: Civil Rights era was Cleveland Sellers Becari Sellers father, and
Speaker 2: he was not imprisoned for any act. He was imprisoned
Speaker 2: for talking to nonviolent protesters and charged with inciting a riot.
Speaker 2: But those people, they didn't burn anything, They didn't you know,
Speaker 2: kill anybody. The police killed black people, and he was
Speaker 2: charged with in inciting the riot that made the police
Speaker 2: open fire on black college students. And it's because that
Speaker 2: was a riot to them, right. But January sixth is again,
Speaker 2: according to the privilege of individuality, a bunch of people
Speaker 2: who was just doing a bunch of different things white people,
Speaker 2: even though there were ninety six percent white. They were
Speaker 2: individual acts. So when they are incited to do stuff, right,
Speaker 2: it wasn't Trump's fault. It wasn't the person who said
Speaker 2: the thing. It wasn't the person who told them, Hey,
Speaker 2: come here and stand on this capital quotunda with all
Speaker 2: of these other people and walk up here and come
Speaker 2: in there and stop this vote. It wasn't his fault, right,
Speaker 2: Like literally the name of the thing was stopped to steal.
Speaker 2: But it wasn't his fault, right. And so we know
Speaker 2: that the law can be kind of jerry rig to
Speaker 2: fit whatever narrative you want, because you know, one of
Speaker 2: the questions we ask ourselves. I ask often is what
Speaker 2: is violence? Right? Is it violent too? It's violent to
Speaker 2: stab somebody on the train, right, But it's not violent
Speaker 2: to withhold mental health care from somebody for their entire
Speaker 2: life and then not offer them the services that we
Speaker 2: know could help him. Is that violence? Right? Is it
Speaker 2: violent to withhold health care from people because of because
Speaker 2: they are poor? But not you know, but give all
Speaker 2: the white people in rural America AK forty seven's or
Speaker 2: AR fifteens? Right? Which one of those things is violent? Well? Violent?
Speaker 2: You know, more people die from guns and lack of
Speaker 2: health care than you know, being in gangs or from
Speaker 2: gang violence. But we classify one as violence and the
Speaker 2: other is not.
Speaker 1: That is fascinating. That is so fascinating, Like, how do
Speaker 1: we reimagine what violence really is, particularly in a country
Speaker 1: where the gap between the haves and the have nots
Speaker 1: is increasing and it's by design? So intent is there?
Speaker 1: Intent is normally a factor for some of the most
Speaker 1: severe crimes. So how is that not violence? I think
Speaker 1: it's such a fascinating proposition. So when you go into
Speaker 1: you know, what history says about riots or uprisings, what
Speaker 1: history says about lynchings, excuse me, and the reasons for
Speaker 1: that my voice is not the best. When you think
Speaker 1: about all of that and you fast forward to right now,
Speaker 1: there is a growing divide in this country between halves
Speaker 1: and the have nots. But Michael, there also seems to
Speaker 1: be a growing divide between like white supremacist ideology and
Speaker 1: like this other pocket where they are also racists too.
Speaker 1: Definitely have from some racist underpinning, some racial racist beliefs.
Speaker 1: You know, the man who was killed last week had
Speaker 1: a lot to say about our dear sister and friend
Speaker 1: joy Read and her intellect, right, which I feel like
Speaker 1: is also violent because it's an attack on someone's personhood,
Speaker 1: their humanity, and their ability to earn what they deserve
Speaker 1: in this country. So when you think about all of
Speaker 1: those things, what is the right response to this moment?
Speaker 1: How do we how do we show up one to
Speaker 1: protect ourselves? Because I don't know that we're out of
Speaker 1: the woods from last week. I don't know that just
Speaker 1: because they found that the killer is one of them,
Speaker 1: I don't know that that means that we are now Okay.
Speaker 1: I think that there was a reprieve. I want to
Speaker 1: hear what you think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think that is correct, But I
Speaker 2: also think that we have to remember that, like, you know,
Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk on his best days had about like five
Speaker 2: hundred thousand listeners to his podcast. It is, you know,
Speaker 2: consuming his stuff. And so all these people that we
Speaker 2: see defending Charlie Kirk were not Charlie Kirk fans. They
Speaker 2: didn't listen to him. It is impossible for five hundred
Speaker 2: thousand people like to make that much noise and to
Speaker 2: issue that much threat over the entire government. What we're
Speaker 2: seeing though, is that these people believed what Charlie Kirk believed,
Speaker 2: and now they have an avatar. So I don't even
Speaker 2: know if it's correct to say that there's a rise
Speaker 2: in this white supremacist ideology. Maybe they've believed it all
Speaker 2: the time and just hit it because it was not,
Speaker 2: you know, acceptable to do so, and now it is,
Speaker 2: and it is because of people like Charlie Kirk and
Speaker 2: his other followers, or that guy and his other followers.
Speaker 2: They have made it acceptable to say, well, you know,
Speaker 2: the black women, they must have gotten DEI, a college
Speaker 2: dropout is saying that about somebody who attended the institution.
Speaker 2: That white people found it right, that white people said
Speaker 2: it is the best institution, right, not us. Right. They
Speaker 2: made the rules, they constructed the whole admissions policy, and
Speaker 2: they accepted a black person, and then the white people say, well,
Speaker 2: you know that's anti white, right, that's the narrative that
Speaker 2: we're living under. And the other thing about this kind
Speaker 2: of rhetoric, though, is that it is not just freeing
Speaker 2: for people who had this ideology all the time, right,
Speaker 2: But you have to look at it in combination with
Speaker 2: what else is going on. So the thing a lot
Speaker 2: of the things that prevent people from accepting or adopting
Speaker 2: this ideology, it's knowing history and knowing the facts that
Speaker 2: we just talked about. Well, if they are erasing the facts,
Speaker 2: and if they're erasing the history, right, what is that cause? Right? Like,
Speaker 2: if you don't know about redlining, you might believe, like
Speaker 2: all the black people just want to live in their
Speaker 2: own neighborhood so they can commit violence against each other. Right,
Speaker 2: if you don't know about how white a generation of
Speaker 2: white people was giving access to the largest government program
Speaker 2: in America in world history, the New Deal, while white
Speaker 2: black people were excluded, you might think that black people
Speaker 2: are poor because they're lazy, like black schools are underfunded
Speaker 2: because black people don't care. And so once you erase
Speaker 2: the actual truth and the history from public or make
Speaker 2: it create one more obstacle for them to find out
Speaker 2: the truth because they can't erase our history, and people
Speaker 2: who don't necessarily care about black people will just adopt
Speaker 2: the thing that they hear on the podcast from a
Speaker 2: dude who's on the internet, versus going to look in
Speaker 2: their library and read a book and find out the truth.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you about So there are some people
Speaker 1: that have been categorizing this as right versus left, but
Speaker 1: I still think that your frame around white versus white
Speaker 1: is correct. And the reason for that, Michael, is if
Speaker 1: you look at who responded to the death last week,
Speaker 1: it wasn't just people on the right. There were white
Speaker 1: people on the alleged left, white moderates who felt a
Speaker 1: sense of empathy, who thought that flag should fly at
Speaker 1: half mass, who think that school districts should hear about him,
Speaker 1: that there should be moments of silence at professionals sports
Speaker 1: games at the NFL. In NFL games, New Orleans Saints
Speaker 1: boot this by the way, But like you're seeing that,
Speaker 1: it isn't just a right wing response of regret and
Speaker 1: maybe they would say, well, this is what stability looks like,
Speaker 1: which I can appreciate, right, But I'm also curious to
Speaker 1: know if you think that this is this moment is
Speaker 1: a convergence of what white supremacy looks like. It is
Speaker 1: a nonpartisan and a bipartisan ideology, and we've seen it
Speaker 1: in both parties historically.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's true, because you know, to believe
Speaker 2: that this is a thing that is right versus left,
Speaker 2: and you'd have to believe, like, you know, all the
Speaker 2: stuff that they say about black culture and how you
Speaker 2: should raise your kids, that white Republican family did that
Speaker 2: to the dude who killed another white Republican, Right, they
Speaker 2: all the stuff that they say about culture and guns
Speaker 2: don't kill people, crazy people kill people, and a white
Speaker 2: dude would guns killed another white dude who loves guns, right,
Speaker 2: and left versus right had nothing to do with it.
Speaker 2: Politics had nothing to do with it. Because when you
Speaker 2: think about this, what they're saying is that if you
Speaker 2: don't agree with one of the most racist Republicans, then
Speaker 2: you must be on the left. Because I don't agree
Speaker 2: with most Democrats on a lot of issues, right y,
Speaker 2: and I ain't gonna kill them, but I'm still on
Speaker 2: the left right. So like if I disagree with something
Speaker 2: Joe Biden did, I won't not only will I not
Speaker 2: kill them, but that doesn't exclude me from being on
Speaker 2: the left right while in their minds because they want
Speaker 2: to use it as pretext to silence us anyway, Right,
Speaker 2: so if the facts kind of don't matter, and debating
Speaker 2: the intimate details of these facts kind of you know,
Speaker 2: overlook or miss or ignore the reality of what they
Speaker 2: are trying to do, like something didn't care about Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 2: He wanted to use this as pretext to crack down
Speaker 2: on his opposition anyway.
Speaker 1: Do you think that I'm trying to be careful about
Speaker 1: how I phrase things? Do you think that we are
Speaker 1: in at the beginning of you know, I don't even
Speaker 1: know if it's at the beginning micro I can't even
Speaker 1: ask this question right, Here's what I want to know.
Speaker 1: How do you think that they will continue to use
Speaker 1: this tragedy to silence voices who have been courageous on
Speaker 1: many issues? We are watching people get fired some of
Speaker 1: the things that folks have done. I would also say
Speaker 1: that was tack it, that was out of pocket. I
Speaker 1: don't know why you did that, right, But there are
Speaker 1: some other things where like Karen Atia was fired from
Speaker 1: the Washington Post, I feel like they've been just looking
Speaker 1: for a reason to get rid of Karen for using
Speaker 1: his own words, for using his own words. So can
Speaker 1: we talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think they will continue to do it right,
Speaker 2: because they'll always find something else to further their aims. Right,
Speaker 2: But we also have to remember, right when it comes
Speaker 2: to issues of race, when it comes to issues and
Speaker 2: movements of freedom and equality, the vast majority of white
Speaker 2: people have always, always, always, always always been wrong. They
Speaker 2: were wrong about abolition, they were wrong about slavery, they
Speaker 2: were wrong about Jim Crow, they were wrong about Native
Speaker 2: American removal, they were wrong about the Black Power movement.
Speaker 2: And they don't go back and apologize like all those
Speaker 2: parents who spent on those kids who were integrating schools.
Speaker 2: They didn't just, like, you know what, go back and say,
Speaker 2: you know what, we apologize. They just move on to
Speaker 2: whatever they did next. So they'll always be something next, right,
Speaker 2: And so we don't have a month from now, we
Speaker 2: won't be worrying about the things that we said about
Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk, and they they won't be worried about the
Speaker 2: things we said about Charlie Kirk, Right, they won't care
Speaker 2: because they don't care now about Charlie Kirk again, five
Speaker 2: hundred thousand listeners on the whole planet, right, And so
Speaker 2: next month it'll be just like it was Woke or
Speaker 2: CRT or DEI or Black Lives Matter. Next month it'll
Speaker 2: be something else, right, And so what we can't continue
Speaker 2: to do to do is to fall into their trap
Speaker 2: of defending the individual constructs that they came up with
Speaker 2: to demonize us, like no CRT, is this, no Woke,
Speaker 2: is this? No Nah? We can't continue to play that game.
Speaker 2: What we have to do is continue marching forward towards
Speaker 2: our own liberation and understand that there will be something
Speaker 2: next and we don't have to capitulate whatever. Like you know,
Speaker 2: one of the reasons one of the things I said
Speaker 2: about Charlie kurricular I didn't have to glote about Charlie
Speaker 2: because I wrote enough about him when he was alive. Right,
Speaker 2: But you know, he affected people's lives and instilled fear
Speaker 2: and did tell you a story I've never told this story.
Speaker 1: I want to hear it anywhere breaking news, y'all.
Speaker 2: So a couple of years ago, when I was working
Speaker 2: at the Route, we every year we used to do
Speaker 2: this thing called the Root Institute. Well, we'd invite scholars
Speaker 2: to teach about a class. And this is when white
Speaker 2: people were going crazy about critical race theory. So I
Speaker 2: had a professor come on and we talked about what
Speaker 2: critical race theory actually was. It's a woman, professor. I
Speaker 2: don't want to give her name, but she ended up
Speaker 2: on Charlie Kirk's professor watchlist. And after the video came.
Speaker 3: Out, she was at school, at the place where she taught,
Speaker 3: and a man with a gun was on campus looking
Speaker 3: for her, and she had to leave the school and assisily.
Speaker 2: Go into hiding. And you know, I don't know how
Speaker 2: many people she told about it. I knew about it.
Speaker 2: I think I might have written about it, but that
Speaker 2: was years ago, and I knew the power of the
Speaker 2: violence that he could incite, right like, it wasn't him
Speaker 2: talking to a mass movement of people. It was him
Speaker 2: talking to crazy right wing ideologues who believed and accepted
Speaker 2: the ideology that he was trying to spread. And that
Speaker 2: kind of violence predated what happened in Utah. That kind
Speaker 2: of violence that he incited, the fear that he incited,
Speaker 2: actually affected people. And you know, I don't know how
Speaker 2: I hadn't talked to you know, that person that educated
Speaker 2: since this happened. But I can imagine that they won't
Speaker 2: speak out like a dude with a gun already showed
Speaker 2: up at their job for saying something that was not
Speaker 2: about Charlie kirk So I that is the chilling effect
Speaker 2: that they are trying to achieve. It's not about Charlie Kirker,
Speaker 2: like keeping us quiet about this great debater. It is
Speaker 2: just the chill, the overall chilling effect of them trying
Speaker 2: to silence our voices.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I am so grateful for the way in
Speaker 1: which you use your voice. Brother. I'm so thankful that
Speaker 1: you were able to come on today and help us
Speaker 1: understand the historical context of the violence that were not
Speaker 1: just bearing witness to last week, but really since Martin
Speaker 1: Luther King Day of this year, and then all of
Speaker 1: the ways in which Project twenty twenty five is also violent.
Speaker 1: I hope that this is an impetus for you to
Speaker 1: write a piece on redefining violence, because there's really good
Speaker 1: points that you raised and maybe that'll be in the
Speaker 1: new book. Y'all know that Michael writes, and I hope
Speaker 1: that you will if you haven't already, cop this right
Speaker 1: here and know that he is one of the best
Speaker 1: writers of our time, our very own resident History and
Speaker 1: Irvin Great and so much more. Michael Harriet, I love you.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna close the show out after I leave you,
Speaker 1: but you know I will check in with you on
Speaker 1: text later. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: Absolutely well everyone. I think that there's so much for
Speaker 1: us to unpack in this moment. We are living in
Speaker 1: an era where it feels like we have gone backwards,
Speaker 1: and I just want to have no Normally, I don't
Speaker 1: get super spiritual on the show, but I do want
Speaker 1: to do this just for a moment. I was talking
Speaker 1: with my sister friend Natasha Brown recently, and she always
Speaker 1: does such a great job of reminding us where we
Speaker 1: are spiritually, and she said, you know what we are
Speaker 1: warring against right now is spiritual. This is a spiritual battle, y'all.
Speaker 1: The reason why it is impacting us at a soul
Speaker 1: level so much is because there are things that are
Speaker 1: stirring up in us that we have not felt since
Speaker 1: our ancestors were alive. I would remind you all, if
Speaker 1: you haven't, to please make sure you read Doctor Joyda
Speaker 1: Gruz post Traumatic Slave Syndrome. Shout out to my cousin Mia,
Speaker 1: who told me about that book. I've had an opportunity
Speaker 1: to speak to doctor de Group. It is important for
Speaker 1: us to understand that we carry these markers, and so
Speaker 1: there's a tension that we're feeling. There is an anxietiety
Speaker 1: that we feel about this moment because we know that
Speaker 1: whatever the violent action was that was taken, the response
Speaker 1: to black people will be outside. We are living in
Speaker 1: an era right now where our heroes and their contributions
Speaker 1: to society are being questioned on every side. But they
Speaker 1: want to bring back Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson
Speaker 1: and all of these other Confederates and celebrate them. Where
Speaker 1: if we knew right now what they represented in American history,
Speaker 1: these are folks that represent traders. When Nicolehannah Jones rolled
Speaker 1: out the sixteen to nineteen Project, later to have a
Speaker 1: subsequent book name the same, they began to wear hats
Speaker 1: that says seventeen seventy six because they don't want the
Speaker 1: accountability of what happened starting in sixteen nineteen, where the
Speaker 1: first documented named person in this country was Angela because
Speaker 1: they assumed that she came from the Angola region of
Speaker 1: the continent. Right that history they don't want to be
Speaker 1: tied to because even though the country itself wasn't founded
Speaker 1: Intel seventeen seventy six, the racist and toxic ideology of
Speaker 1: the slave trade began in sixteen nineteen. Document it probably
Speaker 1: before that, but documented in sixteen nineteen. When you take
Speaker 1: that all the way up to make America great again,
Speaker 1: the first time with Ronald Reagan and then the second
Speaker 1: time with Donald Trump, what we know is that they
Speaker 1: ascribe the lack of America's greatness to us, even though
Speaker 1: we built this thing with our bare hands for centuries,
Speaker 1: without the proper recognition, and most often without the pay
Speaker 1: we deserve, even more often no pay at all. And
Speaker 1: so even the conversation around reparations, when slaveholders themselves were
Speaker 1: given reparations by the local, the state, and the federal government,
Speaker 1: we have never seen what we rightfully deserve. And so
Speaker 1: what I want us to consider is it is okay
Speaker 1: to cry in this moment. It is okay to scream
Speaker 1: in this moment. If I can be honest, the reason
Speaker 1: my voice is gone is because I had to yell
Speaker 1: out a real scream.
Speaker 2: Y'all.
Speaker 1: It's hard. It's hard in this moment you feel gas
Speaker 1: on every side. But I want you to know you're
Speaker 1: not alone. And if something in you is saying this
Speaker 1: just isn't right, whether you black, white, or green, I
Speaker 1: really don't care. Something in you is saying this just
Speaker 1: isn't right. No, that you are not alone in that feeling.
Speaker 1: And the most important thing we can do is utilize
Speaker 1: our voices, stand together and ensure that we are all
Speaker 1: clear that together we absolutely can overcome. We just got
Speaker 1: to keep fighting and maybe midnight, but daybreak is just
Speaker 1: on the other side. Welcome home, y'all. Native Lampod is
Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with Reason Choice Media.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.