1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Native Lanmdpod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: Reason Choice Media. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Hello everyone, 3 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: and welcome home. This is another edition of Native lamppod. 4 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: I am your host, Angela Rai and know my co 5 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: hosts aren't here because this is a solo pod. Y'all. 6 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: We have to have a conversation. It's a very important one. 7 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: It's about white on white crime. And the reason why 8 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: we need to have the conversation about white on white 9 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: crime is because often there is something about gang violence 10 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: that is talked about. And when you hear gang violence, 11 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,959 Speaker 1: too many of us see the faces of black and 12 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: brown people in our minds. We don't always ascribe gang 13 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: violence to white vigilantes, to people who are white supremacists 14 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: or engage in white toxic toxicity. And that ideology that 15 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,319 Speaker 1: follows what we know right now is that there is 16 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: a growing set of individuals who have almost like gang 17 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: like affiliations and these individuals are very, very dangerous to 18 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 1: this country's present and certainly its future. But we can 19 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 1: look back at history to see that there is nothing 20 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: new under the sun, as the Bible says, and unfortunately, 21 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: for us, we have not learned from the history that 22 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: they continue to try to snatch out of museums. So 23 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: joining me today is a legend. He is my brother, 24 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,199 Speaker 1: he is my friend, really become we became cousins first, 25 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: and that's because the first PC ever wrote referencing me, 26 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: he called me cousin Angela. Like so many of people say, 27 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: I'm your cousin in your head, and it is my 28 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: highest honor. There's nothing more that I love more than 29 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: to be your cousin in your head. But Michael Harriet 30 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 1: is now my brother in real life. He is my 31 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: chosen family. He is a New York Times best selling 32 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: author of Black af history. And we cannot look at 33 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: where we are right now without looking back on history 34 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: and how this same toxic ideology has reared its ugly 35 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: head throughout this country's treacherous past. In order for us 36 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: to stop it, we have to call attention to it. 37 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: So let's bring Michael Harriet to the stage. 38 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 2: Hello, Hey me, it is. 39 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: My highest honor. So I'm gonna tell y'all all the 40 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: business before we get into the history of this. Michael, 41 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you. You always find 42 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 1: a way to bring pros to our pain. You always 43 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: find a way to ground us in the reality that 44 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: exists outside of these folks gaslighting us, and I just 45 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: thank you for that. I also want to acknowledge y'all, 46 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: when I was doing specials on BT New Specials on BT, 47 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: the first person I thought of, I was like, I 48 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: have to get Michael Harriet on this writing team. Michael 49 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: Harriet was the writing room y'all. Talk about Tyler Perry, 50 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: this one can also crack them out, Okay. So I 51 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: just want to thank you Michael for being someone who 52 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: could bring better words to my thoughts and always just 53 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: helping us to really ground ourselves on paper. So thank 54 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: you for all you do. 55 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 2: Brother, Yeah, and thank you for all you do. I remember, 56 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 2: as a matter of fact, you know, that was like 57 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 2: seven eight years ago today, and I just remember because 58 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,959 Speaker 2: I thought it was kind of a crazy idea. First 59 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 2: of all, you hired me and to the idea that 60 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 2: you had, like, hey, we're going to make a special 61 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 2: and the theme of this special is going to be 62 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 2: that what if the government just forgives of all our 63 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 2: student loans? And I thought it was a crazy idea 64 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 2: that I was like, I'll write it, but you know 65 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 2: that'll never happen. And look at where we are now. 66 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I love that, Michael. That is so true. 67 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: I forgot about that when what we did other ones too. 68 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: We did one the first election. That was the other one. 69 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: But y'all like again, Michael, I cannot think of a 70 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: time where I don't read something you wrot And I'm like, yes, 71 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: that is exactly how I feel. And true to the part, 72 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: I wish I would have been smart enough to bring 73 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: my book out. It's sitting right there. I might go, 74 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: where's your book? If you don't have your book, I'm 75 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: going to get my book. I'm going to get in 76 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: this right here. Hold on, it's right here. You're gonna 77 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: be mad, y'all keep talking to him, Mike, hold on, Okay, 78 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: I'm back, Okay. So I wanted to get this one 79 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: because humble bragg As I told you all, this is 80 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,359 Speaker 1: chosen family. So Michael Harriet is still on the New 81 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: York Times Bestsellers Live. How long has it been, Michael? 82 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:25,119 Speaker 2: Two years? This week? 83 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: How about that for didn't earn and he earned every 84 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 1: single position. He's hell, my voice already gone, is about 85 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: to get worse. So I wanted to just bring this 86 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 1: out because you wrote a great piece last week about 87 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: what happened in Utah. Our leftist coming for you. Here's 88 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: what the data says about political violence. I want to 89 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: get to that, but before we do, Michael, here's my thing. 90 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: We know in our nation's history, when something happens, it's 91 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: like blame the Negroes, right, Like, whatever happens, it don't 92 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 1: matter if it's in South Dakota, North Coda, Montana. I had 93 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: a whole Utah whatever it is our fault because we 94 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: were born and somehow ended up in the belly of 95 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,239 Speaker 1: a slave ship. They don't know how or several because 96 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: we're here, because we exist, because our DNA is gates 97 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: like Henrietta Alex it's our fault. So I just wanted 98 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: to deepen into that for a moment, because you know, 99 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: after this killing last week, I'm gonna try really hard 100 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: not to say names. After this killing last week, it 101 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 1: was almost immediate that like there was a brown or 102 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: black leftist that was responsible for this brutal killing. And 103 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: so I wanted to think back in history on times 104 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: where they have also accused us of wrongdoing. And in 105 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: response to that accusation, there's been an outsized consequence for 106 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: our people. I know you talk about this in the 107 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: book over and over again, and so I just wanted 108 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 1: to start there because I think, especially if they're going 109 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 1: to take our history out of museums and off the 110 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: alpha books they go, if they haven't been this yet, 111 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: it's close, at least in some school districts. I'm certain 112 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: it already is. But I think that we should talk 113 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: about why this feels so familiar, especially epigenetically for black people. 114 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: Something about where we are in this moment feels familiar, 115 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 1: and it's because we carry the DNA of our ancestors. 116 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, when you look at history, it's clear 117 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 2: you know who is you know, when you even that 118 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 2: most of the racial MAXs because in history, right, they 119 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 2: were using us as scapegoats for you know, a beef 120 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:40,239 Speaker 2: between white people, right, Like the Confederates were mad because 121 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 2: they succeeded and the Union Army whipped their butts, and 122 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 2: we were caught in between that, right, But we have 123 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 2: nothing to do with them succeeding. We didn't have nothing 124 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 2: to do with you know, the Union Army didn't even 125 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 2: want us involved in the first place. It was the 126 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 2: luddiest war in the history of this continent was really 127 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 2: just white or white violence when you look at many 128 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 2: of even during slavery, after slavery, during reconstruction, you know, 129 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 2: the Polk War in North Carolina, that was just white 130 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: or white crime, and then they killed a lot of 131 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 2: black people. The same thing in South Carolina. The reason 132 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 2: for the eighteen seventy six election that caused Jim directly 133 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:35,119 Speaker 2: led to Jim Crow was like a white violent dude, 134 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 2: Wadehampton third in South Carolina, had an army called the 135 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 2: Red Shirts that was going around killing black people. And 136 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 2: then he, you know, overturned the results of the election, 137 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 2: which caused South Carolina to withhold its electoral votes. And 138 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 2: it's the only time in the history of this country 139 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 2: that an election wasn't chosen by the popular vote or 140 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 2: the electoral college. They just got fifteen men in the 141 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 2: room and saying, hey, if you let us treat let 142 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 2: the South treat black people how we want, we'll let 143 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 2: the Republican Garfield be governor. And that's how we got 144 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 2: Jim Crow. And so you know, we are always taking 145 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 2: the brunt of this white or white violence. And it's 146 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 2: the same today. You know, a black person didn't try 147 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 2: to assassinate Donald Trump. Right, A black person didn't walk 148 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 2: into that synagogue. A black person didn't put pipe bombs 149 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 2: in by the US Capitol, we didn't storm the capitol. 150 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 2: We know who did it. The FBI reports, all the 151 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 2: data shows who did it. Yet we're the ones whose 152 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 2: cities are being occupied by soldiers. We're the ones who 153 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 2: are blamed for all of the violence in America because 154 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 2: there's that very narrow definition of violence that they created 155 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 2: and used for their own ends. 156 00:08:55,360 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I guess I wonder like, why is that 157 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: the default? Is it an unwillingness to take accountability to 158 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: you know, want to look in the mirror? Is it 159 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: because you know, we hear that white folks say they 160 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: are talking about how they preserve their race. Right now, 161 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: you know, there's a town that was recently established all 162 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: white town. There's white vigilantes marching down the street in 163 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: Huntington Beach right now. Like, what is the thing that 164 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 1: is driving this narrative? And I think we could probably 165 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: argue that that is historically, what, you know, the same 166 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: thing that it drove the narrative in the past. 167 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a combination of things. Right, So 168 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 2: one is a phrase that I call the privilege of individuality. 169 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 2: So when a white person does something, they see it 170 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 2: as that person did a thing, and it doesn't have 171 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 2: any bearing on me. It's not what white people do, 172 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 2: it's what that person did. Right. So when we look 173 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 2: at the data, we see that white people are responsible 174 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 2: for most takee. Crimes, white people are responsible for most 175 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 2: political violence, but they see that as individual acts of 176 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 2: different people, and they see crime in Chicago as a 177 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 2: whole different thing than crime. And you know, the most uh, 178 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 2: the city in America with the most crime is all 179 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 2: white town in Florida. And they don't send soldiers there, right, 180 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 2: It's it's literally has eight black people in the whole town, right, 181 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 2: But they don't send black people there. I can't remember 182 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 2: the name of Evergreen, Florida, but yeah, they don't send 183 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 2: people there. They send people to the black cities because 184 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 2: that's who they think is committing the crime. 185 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: Wow, I'm looking you know, I'm looking this up right 186 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: now because I want to get it right. We're gonna 187 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:54,319 Speaker 1: make sure y'all have the facts. 188 00:10:54,720 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'm I'm I'm I'll find it in one second. 189 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 2: It because I started actually writing about it, which is 190 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:08,439 Speaker 2: how I got this data about political violence. So it's 191 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 2: called Bellevue. So it's Bellevue, Florida and Marion County, Florida. 192 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,719 Speaker 2: It is eighty three percent white, fourteen percent Hispanic. It's 193 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 2: got eight black people. Kamala Harris lost it by forty 194 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 2: one point, so it's very maga and it has twice 195 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 2: the violent crime rate and as Chicago or any other city. 196 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 2: And you know, people are always surprised when like Chicago 197 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 2: ranks like one hundred and twenty first among cities and 198 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 2: six hundred and twenty first among all municipalities for violent crime. 199 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:47,959 Speaker 2: It's just a thing that white people made up and 200 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 2: have us believe. 201 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: Right, And I think that to this point, and this 202 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: is what I want to get back to around language. 203 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: We know in this country, at least right now, we 204 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: have First Amendment protections first speech for free speech. And 205 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: one of the things that people don't always realize is 206 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: that what is not protected by the First Amendment is 207 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: speech that incites violence. At least it's not supposed to be. However, 208 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: Michael Harriet, I don't know if you've already done the 209 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: research on this, because you are very data driven journalists, 210 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: but I'm curious to know why white folks are carved 211 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: out of that incitement of violence bubble. You know, even 212 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: with the killing last week, the man who had lost 213 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: his life regularly incited violence. And I also think that 214 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: it's interesting the president, the current sitting president, has utilized 215 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: the bully pulpit to incite violence, including the insurrection on 216 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: January sixth, twenty twenty one. Why do you think they're 217 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,839 Speaker 1: given a pass or they are the speech that they 218 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: use that would incite violence or cause individuals to be 219 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: targeted is not seen that way when literally some of 220 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: the same rhetoric they use is what resulted in, you know, 221 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: the lynching of an innocent black or black woman, you know, 222 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: back in the day. Why is their speech, their violent speech, 223 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: not deemed as such? 224 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 2: Well, because those protections, those constitutional protections haven't just been 225 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 2: traditionally historically afforded to them. Right. They all what frame 226 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 2: our definition of incitement or a riot? Right? So for instance, 227 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 2: I mean we all know, well I hope your listeners know. 228 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 2: You know, the only person who was imprisoned during the 229 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 2: Civil Rights era for the most violent event of the 230 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 2: Civil Rights era was Cleveland Sellers Becari Sellers father, and 231 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 2: he was not imprisoned for any act. He was imprisoned 232 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 2: for talking to nonviolent protesters and charged with inciting a riot. 233 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 2: But those people, they didn't burn anything, They didn't you know, 234 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 2: kill anybody. The police killed black people, and he was 235 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 2: charged with in inciting the riot that made the police 236 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 2: open fire on black college students. And it's because that 237 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 2: was a riot to them, right. But January sixth is again, 238 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 2: according to the privilege of individuality, a bunch of people 239 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 2: who was just doing a bunch of different things white people, 240 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 2: even though there were ninety six percent white. They were 241 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 2: individual acts. So when they are incited to do stuff, right, 242 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 2: it wasn't Trump's fault. It wasn't the person who said 243 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 2: the thing. It wasn't the person who told them, Hey, 244 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 2: come here and stand on this capital quotunda with all 245 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 2: of these other people and walk up here and come 246 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 2: in there and stop this vote. It wasn't his fault, right, 247 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 2: Like literally the name of the thing was stopped to steal. 248 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 2: But it wasn't his fault, right. And so we know 249 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 2: that the law can be kind of jerry rig to 250 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 2: fit whatever narrative you want, because you know, one of 251 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 2: the questions we ask ourselves. I ask often is what 252 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 2: is violence? Right? Is it violent too? It's violent to 253 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 2: stab somebody on the train, right, But it's not violent 254 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 2: to withhold mental health care from somebody for their entire 255 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 2: life and then not offer them the services that we 256 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 2: know could help him. Is that violence? Right? Is it 257 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 2: violent to withhold health care from people because of because 258 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 2: they are poor? But not you know, but give all 259 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 2: the white people in rural America AK forty seven's or 260 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 2: AR fifteens? Right? Which one of those things is violent? Well? Violent? 261 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 2: You know, more people die from guns and lack of 262 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 2: health care than you know, being in gangs or from 263 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 2: gang violence. But we classify one as violence and the 264 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 2: other is not. 265 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: That is fascinating. That is so fascinating, Like, how do 266 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: we reimagine what violence really is, particularly in a country 267 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: where the gap between the haves and the have nots 268 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: is increasing and it's by design? So intent is there? 269 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: Intent is normally a factor for some of the most 270 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: severe crimes. So how is that not violence? I think 271 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: it's such a fascinating proposition. So when you go into 272 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: you know, what history says about riots or uprisings, what 273 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: history says about lynchings, excuse me, and the reasons for 274 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: that my voice is not the best. When you think 275 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: about all of that and you fast forward to right now, 276 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: there is a growing divide in this country between halves 277 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: and the have nots. But Michael, there also seems to 278 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: be a growing divide between like white supremacist ideology and 279 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: like this other pocket where they are also racists too. 280 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: Definitely have from some racist underpinning, some racial racist beliefs. 281 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: You know, the man who was killed last week had 282 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 1: a lot to say about our dear sister and friend 283 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: joy Read and her intellect, right, which I feel like 284 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: is also violent because it's an attack on someone's personhood, 285 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: their humanity, and their ability to earn what they deserve 286 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: in this country. So when you think about all of 287 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: those things, what is the right response to this moment? 288 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: How do we how do we show up one to 289 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: protect ourselves? Because I don't know that we're out of 290 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: the woods from last week. I don't know that just 291 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: because they found that the killer is one of them, 292 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: I don't know that that means that we are now Okay. 293 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 1: I think that there was a reprieve. I want to 294 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: hear what you think. 295 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think that is correct, But I 296 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 2: also think that we have to remember that, like, you know, 297 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk on his best days had about like five 298 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 2: hundred thousand listeners to his podcast. It is, you know, 299 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,479 Speaker 2: consuming his stuff. And so all these people that we 300 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:17,239 Speaker 2: see defending Charlie Kirk were not Charlie Kirk fans. They 301 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 2: didn't listen to him. It is impossible for five hundred 302 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 2: thousand people like to make that much noise and to 303 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 2: issue that much threat over the entire government. What we're 304 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 2: seeing though, is that these people believed what Charlie Kirk believed, 305 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 2: and now they have an avatar. So I don't even 306 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 2: know if it's correct to say that there's a rise 307 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 2: in this white supremacist ideology. Maybe they've believed it all 308 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 2: the time and just hit it because it was not, 309 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 2: you know, acceptable to do so, and now it is, 310 00:18:56,080 --> 00:19:00,360 Speaker 2: and it is because of people like Charlie Kirk and 311 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 2: his other followers, or that guy and his other followers. 312 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 2: They have made it acceptable to say, well, you know, 313 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 2: the black women, they must have gotten DEI, a college 314 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 2: dropout is saying that about somebody who attended the institution. 315 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 2: That white people found it right, that white people said 316 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 2: it is the best institution, right, not us. Right. They 317 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 2: made the rules, they constructed the whole admissions policy, and 318 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 2: they accepted a black person, and then the white people say, well, 319 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 2: you know that's anti white, right, that's the narrative that 320 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 2: we're living under. And the other thing about this kind 321 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 2: of rhetoric, though, is that it is not just freeing 322 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 2: for people who had this ideology all the time, right, 323 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 2: But you have to look at it in combination with 324 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 2: what else is going on. So the thing a lot 325 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:03,880 Speaker 2: of the things that prevent people from accepting or adopting 326 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 2: this ideology, it's knowing history and knowing the facts that 327 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,120 Speaker 2: we just talked about. Well, if they are erasing the facts, 328 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,879 Speaker 2: and if they're erasing the history, right, what is that cause? Right? Like, 329 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 2: if you don't know about redlining, you might believe, like 330 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:19,439 Speaker 2: all the black people just want to live in their 331 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 2: own neighborhood so they can commit violence against each other. Right, 332 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:27,199 Speaker 2: if you don't know about how white a generation of 333 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 2: white people was giving access to the largest government program 334 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 2: in America in world history, the New Deal, while white 335 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 2: black people were excluded, you might think that black people 336 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 2: are poor because they're lazy, like black schools are underfunded 337 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 2: because black people don't care. And so once you erase 338 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 2: the actual truth and the history from public or make 339 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 2: it create one more obstacle for them to find out 340 00:20:55,600 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 2: the truth because they can't erase our history, and people 341 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 2: who don't necessarily care about black people will just adopt 342 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 2: the thing that they hear on the podcast from a 343 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 2: dude who's on the internet, versus going to look in 344 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 2: their library and read a book and find out the truth. 345 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: Let me ask you about So there are some people 346 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: that have been categorizing this as right versus left, but 347 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: I still think that your frame around white versus white 348 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: is correct. And the reason for that, Michael, is if 349 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 1: you look at who responded to the death last week, 350 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: it wasn't just people on the right. There were white 351 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 1: people on the alleged left, white moderates who felt a 352 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 1: sense of empathy, who thought that flag should fly at 353 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: half mass, who think that school districts should hear about him, 354 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: that there should be moments of silence at professionals sports 355 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 1: games at the NFL. In NFL games, New Orleans Saints 356 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: boot this by the way, But like you're seeing that, 357 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: it isn't just a right wing response of regret and 358 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: maybe they would say, well, this is what stability looks like, 359 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: which I can appreciate, right, But I'm also curious to 360 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,679 Speaker 1: know if you think that this is this moment is 361 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: a convergence of what white supremacy looks like. It is 362 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: a nonpartisan and a bipartisan ideology, and we've seen it 363 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: in both parties historically. 364 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's true, because you know, to believe 365 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 2: that this is a thing that is right versus left, 366 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 2: and you'd have to believe, like, you know, all the 367 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 2: stuff that they say about black culture and how you 368 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 2: should raise your kids, that white Republican family did that 369 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 2: to the dude who killed another white Republican, Right, they 370 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 2: all the stuff that they say about culture and guns 371 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 2: don't kill people, crazy people kill people, and a white 372 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 2: dude would guns killed another white dude who loves guns, right, 373 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 2: and left versus right had nothing to do with it. 374 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 2: Politics had nothing to do with it. Because when you 375 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 2: think about this, what they're saying is that if you 376 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 2: don't agree with one of the most racist Republicans, then 377 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 2: you must be on the left. Because I don't agree 378 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 2: with most Democrats on a lot of issues, right y, 379 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 2: and I ain't gonna kill them, but I'm still on 380 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 2: the left right. So like if I disagree with something 381 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 2: Joe Biden did, I won't not only will I not 382 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 2: kill them, but that doesn't exclude me from being on 383 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 2: the left right while in their minds because they want 384 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 2: to use it as pretext to silence us anyway, Right, 385 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 2: so if the facts kind of don't matter, and debating 386 00:23:55,640 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 2: the intimate details of these facts kind of you know, 387 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 2: overlook or miss or ignore the reality of what they 388 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 2: are trying to do, like something didn't care about Charlie Kirk. 389 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 2: He wanted to use this as pretext to crack down 390 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 2: on his opposition anyway. 391 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: Do you think that I'm trying to be careful about 392 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: how I phrase things? Do you think that we are 393 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: in at the beginning of you know, I don't even 394 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: know if it's at the beginning micro I can't even 395 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: ask this question right, Here's what I want to know. 396 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: How do you think that they will continue to use 397 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: this tragedy to silence voices who have been courageous on 398 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: many issues? We are watching people get fired some of 399 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: the things that folks have done. I would also say 400 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: that was tack it, that was out of pocket. I 401 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,679 Speaker 1: don't know why you did that, right, But there are 402 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,400 Speaker 1: some other things where like Karen Atia was fired from 403 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 1: the Washington Post, I feel like they've been just looking 404 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 1: for a reason to get rid of Karen for using 405 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 1: his own words, for using his own words. So can 406 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: we talk a little bit about that. 407 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 2: Well, I don't think they will continue to do it right, 408 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 2: because they'll always find something else to further their aims. Right, 409 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 2: But we also have to remember, right when it comes 410 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 2: to issues of race, when it comes to issues and 411 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 2: movements of freedom and equality, the vast majority of white 412 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 2: people have always, always, always, always always been wrong. They 413 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 2: were wrong about abolition, they were wrong about slavery, they 414 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 2: were wrong about Jim Crow, they were wrong about Native 415 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 2: American removal, they were wrong about the Black Power movement. 416 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 2: And they don't go back and apologize like all those 417 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 2: parents who spent on those kids who were integrating schools. 418 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 2: They didn't just, like, you know what, go back and say, 419 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 2: you know what, we apologize. They just move on to 420 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 2: whatever they did next. So they'll always be something next, right, 421 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 2: And so we don't have a month from now, we 422 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 2: won't be worrying about the things that we said about 423 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk, and they they won't be worried about the 424 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 2: things we said about Charlie Kirk, Right, they won't care 425 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 2: because they don't care now about Charlie Kirk again, five 426 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 2: hundred thousand listeners on the whole planet, right, And so 427 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 2: next month it'll be just like it was Woke or 428 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 2: CRT or DEI or Black Lives Matter. Next month it'll 429 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:44,120 Speaker 2: be something else, right, And so what we can't continue 430 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 2: to do to do is to fall into their trap 431 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 2: of defending the individual constructs that they came up with 432 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 2: to demonize us, like no CRT, is this, no Woke, 433 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,360 Speaker 2: is this? No Nah? We can't continue to play that game. 434 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 2: What we have to do is continue marching forward towards 435 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:08,360 Speaker 2: our own liberation and understand that there will be something 436 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 2: next and we don't have to capitulate whatever. Like you know, 437 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 2: one of the reasons one of the things I said 438 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 2: about Charlie kurricular I didn't have to glote about Charlie 439 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,880 Speaker 2: because I wrote enough about him when he was alive. Right, 440 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 2: But you know, he affected people's lives and instilled fear 441 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 2: and did tell you a story I've never told this story. 442 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 1: I want to hear it anywhere breaking news, y'all. 443 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 2: So a couple of years ago, when I was working 444 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 2: at the Route, we every year we used to do 445 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 2: this thing called the Root Institute. Well, we'd invite scholars 446 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 2: to teach about a class. And this is when white 447 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 2: people were going crazy about critical race theory. So I 448 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 2: had a professor come on and we talked about what 449 00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,040 Speaker 2: critical race theory actually was. It's a woman, professor. I 450 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 2: don't want to give her name, but she ended up 451 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 2: on Charlie Kirk's professor watchlist. And after the video came. 452 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 3: Out, she was at school, at the place where she taught, 453 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 3: and a man with a gun was on campus looking 454 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 3: for her, and she had to leave the school and assisily. 455 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 2: Go into hiding. And you know, I don't know how 456 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 2: many people she told about it. I knew about it. 457 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 2: I think I might have written about it, but that 458 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 2: was years ago, and I knew the power of the 459 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 2: violence that he could incite, right like, it wasn't him 460 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 2: talking to a mass movement of people. It was him 461 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 2: talking to crazy right wing ideologues who believed and accepted 462 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 2: the ideology that he was trying to spread. And that 463 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 2: kind of violence predated what happened in Utah. That kind 464 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 2: of violence that he incited, the fear that he incited, 465 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 2: actually affected people. And you know, I don't know how 466 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 2: I hadn't talked to you know, that person that educated 467 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 2: since this happened. But I can imagine that they won't 468 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 2: speak out like a dude with a gun already showed 469 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 2: up at their job for saying something that was not 470 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 2: about Charlie kirk So I that is the chilling effect 471 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 2: that they are trying to achieve. It's not about Charlie Kirker, 472 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 2: like keeping us quiet about this great debater. It is 473 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 2: just the chill, the overall chilling effect of them trying 474 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 2: to silence our voices. 475 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I am so grateful for the way in 476 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: which you use your voice. Brother. I'm so thankful that 477 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: you were able to come on today and help us 478 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: understand the historical context of the violence that were not 479 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: just bearing witness to last week, but really since Martin 480 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: Luther King Day of this year, and then all of 481 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: the ways in which Project twenty twenty five is also violent. 482 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: I hope that this is an impetus for you to 483 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: write a piece on redefining violence, because there's really good 484 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: points that you raised and maybe that'll be in the 485 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: new book. Y'all know that Michael writes, and I hope 486 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: that you will if you haven't already, cop this right 487 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: here and know that he is one of the best 488 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: writers of our time, our very own resident History and 489 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: Irvin Great and so much more. Michael Harriet, I love you. 490 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: I'm gonna close the show out after I leave you, 491 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: but you know I will check in with you on 492 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: text later. Thank you so much. 493 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. 494 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: Absolutely well everyone. I think that there's so much for 495 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: us to unpack in this moment. We are living in 496 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: an era where it feels like we have gone backwards, 497 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: and I just want to have no Normally, I don't 498 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: get super spiritual on the show, but I do want 499 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: to do this just for a moment. I was talking 500 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: with my sister friend Natasha Brown recently, and she always 501 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: does such a great job of reminding us where we 502 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: are spiritually, and she said, you know what we are 503 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: warring against right now is spiritual. This is a spiritual battle, y'all. 504 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: The reason why it is impacting us at a soul 505 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: level so much is because there are things that are 506 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: stirring up in us that we have not felt since 507 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: our ancestors were alive. I would remind you all, if 508 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: you haven't, to please make sure you read Doctor Joyda 509 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: Gruz post Traumatic Slave Syndrome. Shout out to my cousin Mia, 510 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: who told me about that book. I've had an opportunity 511 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: to speak to doctor de Group. It is important for 512 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: us to understand that we carry these markers, and so 513 00:31:55,160 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: there's a tension that we're feeling. There is an anxietiety 514 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: that we feel about this moment because we know that 515 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 1: whatever the violent action was that was taken, the response 516 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: to black people will be outside. We are living in 517 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: an era right now where our heroes and their contributions 518 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: to society are being questioned on every side. But they 519 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: want to bring back Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson 520 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: and all of these other Confederates and celebrate them. Where 521 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: if we knew right now what they represented in American history, 522 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: these are folks that represent traders. When Nicolehannah Jones rolled 523 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: out the sixteen to nineteen Project, later to have a 524 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: subsequent book name the same, they began to wear hats 525 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: that says seventeen seventy six because they don't want the 526 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: accountability of what happened starting in sixteen nineteen, where the 527 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 1: first documented named person in this country was Angela because 528 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: they assumed that she came from the Angola region of 529 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: the continent. Right that history they don't want to be 530 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: tied to because even though the country itself wasn't founded 531 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: Intel seventeen seventy six, the racist and toxic ideology of 532 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: the slave trade began in sixteen nineteen. Document it probably 533 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: before that, but documented in sixteen nineteen. When you take 534 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: that all the way up to make America great again, 535 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: the first time with Ronald Reagan and then the second 536 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: time with Donald Trump, what we know is that they 537 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: ascribe the lack of America's greatness to us, even though 538 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 1: we built this thing with our bare hands for centuries, 539 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: without the proper recognition, and most often without the pay 540 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: we deserve, even more often no pay at all. And 541 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: so even the conversation around reparations, when slaveholders themselves were 542 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 1: given reparations by the local, the state, and the federal government, 543 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: we have never seen what we rightfully deserve. And so 544 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: what I want us to consider is it is okay 545 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: to cry in this moment. It is okay to scream 546 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: in this moment. If I can be honest, the reason 547 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: my voice is gone is because I had to yell 548 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: out a real scream. 549 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 2: Y'all. 550 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 1: It's hard. It's hard in this moment you feel gas 551 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: on every side. But I want you to know you're 552 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: not alone. And if something in you is saying this 553 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 1: just isn't right, whether you black, white, or green, I 554 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 1: really don't care. Something in you is saying this just 555 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: isn't right. No, that you are not alone in that feeling. 556 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: And the most important thing we can do is utilize 557 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: our voices, stand together and ensure that we are all 558 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 1: clear that together we absolutely can overcome. We just got 559 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: to keep fighting and maybe midnight, but daybreak is just 560 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: on the other side. Welcome home, y'all. Native Lampod is 561 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with Reason Choice Media. 562 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 563 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.