1 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, an eleven year old boy, 2 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: Roman goes missing out of his own home. Every parent's 3 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: worst nightmare. Your child goes missing number one and on 4 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: your watch number two. I mean you see Grace. This 5 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here 6 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: at Fox Nation and Sirius XM one eleven. What happened 7 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: to Roman? Listen to this? A man who says he 8 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: worked with Roman's father describes the day the eleven year 9 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: old went missing. Everything was normal. You wouldn't have suspected. 10 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: It's like any other day. Brian Hinton says he was 11 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: working with Roman's father on Saturday. They're both linemen from 12 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: out of state working in Placerville since October. He noticed 13 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: Jordan Piper left work around eleven am. He had a 14 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: family emergency. About three hours later, Hinton got a text 15 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: message from Piper with photos of Roman. Hinton met Piper 16 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: to start searching crime. You can tell it. He was 17 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: shook up. He told us that it's unreal. What do 18 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: they believe he ran away? That that there's certain that 19 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: he left between mid ninety six am. Forty co workers 20 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 1: helped search until around ten thirty at night, looking in 21 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: dumpsters looking in garage's trailers. You were hearing from our 22 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: friends at Casey are A News three. It's very unusual 23 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: for a child that young to just run away. You 24 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: often hear of teens running away seventeen, eighteen, nineteen. Once 25 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: in a while, you hear of teens younger than that 26 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: sixteen fifteen. But when you're getting down to thirteen, twelve, eleven, 27 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: not as you shul to have a child that young runaway. 28 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: With me an all star panel to make sense of 29 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: it all or now to attorney joining me out of 30 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: the Atlanta area. Daryl Cohen joining US former prosecutor of Felonies. 31 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: Doctor Sherry Schwartz, forensic psychologist at panther Mitigation dot com, 32 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: author of Criminal Behavior just into boardman with US, former 33 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: Special Victims Unit detective, author of I Was Wrong, An 34 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: investigator's battlecry for Shange. Doctor Michelle Dupree, pathologist, medical examiner, 35 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. But first to Dave 36 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: Minski joining US ASHREEP public safety and military reporter was 37 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 1: Santa Maria Times. Dave, thanks sam us for being with us. 38 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: I find that very odd that an eleven year old 39 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 1: child would just disappear as a matter of fact, take 40 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut a. This is Jackie Howard 41 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: joining us from crime online dot com. It was just 42 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: about nine am on a Saturday morning in January when 43 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: Lindsay Piper went upstairs to wake the children for breakfast, 44 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: but eleven year old Roman Lopez wasn't in his bed. 45 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: At first, the stepmother thought the shy four feet eight 46 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: inch boy was hiding. He liked to do that, so 47 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: Piper checked the usual places. When Roman could not be found, 48 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: a frantic search began. For two hours, Jordan and Lindsay 49 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: Piper searched for Roman. Then, instead of calling nine to one, 50 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: the Pipers drove to the Placerville Police Department, about three 51 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: minutes from their house. But it was Saturday, the station 52 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: is closed, so they go to El Dorado County Sheriff's Office, 53 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: but a deputy wasn't available to speak with them. Finally, 54 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: just after noon, a deputy files a courtesy report for 55 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: a juvenile runaway. According to El Dorado County Sheriff's Office records, 56 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: the BOLO or beyond the lookout report was entered at 57 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: one seventeen PM and the missing person report was forwarded 58 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: to the Placerville Police Department NAT to Dave Miskey joining 59 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: us from the Santa Maria Times. So they realize he's 60 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: missing at what time? It looks like I think there 61 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: weren't missing some time in the morning. I think it 62 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: was around nine am that he goes missing, this little 63 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: boy just four feet eight inches. A frantic search ensues 64 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: and we get that missing person below beyond the lookout 65 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: and that jurisdiction at eleven at one seventeen PM, nearly 66 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: one thirty. So already there's eleven to twelve, twelve to one, 67 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: two and a half hours, and I'm curious as to 68 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: why they didn't realize he was missing until eleven a m. 69 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: First of all, I want to find out what day 70 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: of the week this was the day he goes missing. 71 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 1: I believe January eleven would have been a Saturday, a 72 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: Saturday morning, so that might explain people sleeping late the 73 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: home and not realizing he was missing. What can you 74 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: tell me about the area we're talking about? Plasterville, California. 75 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: What do you know, Dave Minsky? Yeah, Plasterville. It's the 76 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: county seat of El Dorado County, which a lot of 77 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: us know here in California as the site of the 78 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 1: California gold Rush. It's where the gold rush began back 79 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: in eighteen forty eight, so that's a origin of the 80 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: gold rush. But I understand that the population is now 81 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: around ten thousand. Where did all the people go? They 82 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: spread throughout the rest of the state in the world 83 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: dancing and okay, it's nicknamed hangtown. I wonder what that's 84 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: all about. But my main concern, the reason I'm quizzing you, 85 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 1: Dave Minsky, justin Boardman, is because ten thousand people, that's 86 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: very sparsely populated. That's going to really narrow potential suspects. 87 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: It may have taken this boy correct, but Plasterville is 88 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: also an area where a lot of transients come in 89 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 1: for you know, it's not just the gold dress nowadays, 90 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: but they have the green rush, so a lot of 91 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: people come in from out of town to you know, 92 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: girl cannabis, process cannabis and get it ready for the market. 93 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of people coming in and out 94 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: of the area from all over the world. I don't 95 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: like that number one transients because do you guys remember, 96 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: let me ask you this, when Darryl Cohen, high profile 97 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: lawyer joining me out of Atlanta, you remember the two 98 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 1: little girls that go missing on the bridge, the Trestle bridge. 99 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: Remember them, Yes, they do, and we have a picture 100 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: taken by at Liberty and Abigail are the two little girls, 101 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: and we have his voice on one of their cell phones. 102 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: We have a description, we actually have a picture, and 103 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: they still can't catch him. Small area just like this Delphi. 104 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: It's got to be a transient or locals would have 105 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: known him. That's why transience present a problem when you 106 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: have an area like this, And for Peat's sake, for 107 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: pot you know that's a bad omen right there, Daryl Cohen, 108 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: Nancy is not good when you have someone that not known, 109 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: he or she can hide anywhere. But on the other hand, 110 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: they also stick out, so that's also something that's a 111 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: good thing. But when you've got a lot of transience, 112 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: it makes it much more difficult. All we know right 113 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: now is that cops are exploring the idea this little boy, 114 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: just four feet eight inches ran away from home and 115 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: they're now looking at potential suspects who would have taken 116 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: this little boy. Take a listen to our friend Jessica 117 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: Minch k r o N. The Plasterville boy went missing 118 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: Saturday morning, sparking a massive search around his home on 119 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: Coloma Street in Plasterville. Neighbors tried to help. The Plasterville 120 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: Police came by and I helped him good access to 121 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: the property behind us, and we searched all the trailers 122 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: and stuff that are back out in there that could, 123 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: you know, be kind of an attractive to a you know, 124 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: eleven year old boy to hide up in something like that, 125 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: he says. Lopez's family moved in down the street a 126 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: little over a month ago. They're new to the neighborhood. 127 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: Investigators spent Sunday combing through Lopez's house in backyard. It's 128 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: in hopes of figuring out what exactly happened to the 129 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: eleven year old. Okay, David Miski joined me from the 130 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: Santa Maria Times. So is it a very rural area? Um, 131 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 1: sort of. It's. The Possaville itself is about ten thousand people. 132 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: It's kind of nestled. It's in the foothills of the 133 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: Sierra Nevadas. It's it's east of Sacramento. So you've got 134 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: Possaville and then you've got a lot of these, you know, 135 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: I guess farms, cannabis farms, kind of scattered throughout the 136 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: countryside among the hills. Well, were they before they were 137 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: plot farms, gold farms? As far as I know, I 138 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: don't know. I'm not entirely you're about what they were 139 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: before they're pot farms. Yeah, you're right, it doesn't matter 140 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: they're pot farms now. So you mentioned something that interests me, 141 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,439 Speaker 1: Dave Minsky, many things actually, But you said that Plasterville 142 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 1: is nestled between I think you said the Sierra Nevada Mountains. 143 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: So in order to get out a Plasterville, do you 144 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: actually have to drive over a mountain or around a mountain? No, 145 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: So it's the mountains are so Plasterville sits on the 146 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: eastern the western side of the Sire Nevadas, and it's 147 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: just a little bit east of Sacramento, so there's not 148 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: a lot of There's some hills and stuff that you 149 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: have to drive through, but not technically not mountains until 150 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 1: you go further east on Highways fifty. Do we know 151 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: if the family had nanny camps or anything like that 152 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: in the home, any kind of ring doorbells, any type 153 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: of video surveillance that I'm not able to determine. But 154 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: that's something I'm kind of looking into not a lot 155 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:17,719 Speaker 1: of details in the crime stories with Nancy Grace to 156 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: Justin Boardman, former Special Victims Unit detective in West Valley City. 157 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: Justin Boardman, I, when I hear of teens running away, 158 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: they're usually sixteen, seventeen, maybe fifteen, rarely fourteen. But when 159 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: you're down to eleven years old, that's a rare occasion. Yeah, 160 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: that's there's a lot of issues when it comes to 161 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: the age. Especially that screams all sorts of things to 162 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: me that would be abuse issues. That's going to be 163 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:59,719 Speaker 1: certainly things like that. One of the first places I 164 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: would start, however, excuse me, would be a a consents 165 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: search of the home. We always worked from the inside out, 166 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: so we would go wherever we could look, wherever we 167 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: could find or someone the size of of our kiddo 168 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: that we're looking for. Might be a lot of times 169 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: we'd find somebody asleep clauset. Sometimes we'd even find them 170 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: asleep between a bed and a wall and parents couldn't 171 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: find them. So we would start for the inside and 172 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: start working our way out. Another thing never Sherry Shorts 173 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: joining me forensic psychologists is to look at friends homes 174 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: because when we were growing up, our best friends there's 175 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: a neighbor neighbors across the street had four children and 176 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:56,319 Speaker 1: one of them fit all three of us, so me, 177 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: my brother, and my sister, So we were always back 178 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: and forth across the street and would often spend the 179 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: night over. That's another place I would look immediately. However, 180 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: in this case, they've only lived there for about a month, 181 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: which could reduce how many friends the little boy has 182 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: made in the neighborhood. Yeah, that's true. And if it's 183 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: a fairly rural area and you know, the kids don't 184 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: have a neighborhood to go out and play in, that's 185 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: another factor which would hinder making friends. But I agree 186 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: with you. It was one of the first things they 187 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: thought of, has he met anyone at school? And when 188 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,839 Speaker 1: kids are that young, they don't necessarily think, oh, I've 189 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 1: been gone from home for this many hours. My parents 190 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: are going to worry, and we don't know if he 191 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,439 Speaker 1: has a cell phone or has any way to contact anyone. 192 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: So that's a definite possibility that could be with their friends. 193 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: Another issue to Justin Boardman, Special Victims Unit Detective formerly 194 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: West Valley City, Justin, I would blank it I would 195 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: blast all of this child's social media because at eleven, 196 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 1: I've noticed that miners of that age don't always use 197 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: big devices like a big screen or a laptop, even 198 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: an iPad. They play a lot on their phones. But 199 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: whatever device, I would get that subpoena pronto and start 200 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: looking through that to see if he went anywhere. But 201 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: you're right, you start within the home, justin What do 202 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,559 Speaker 1: you do in a big rural area like this plasterval 203 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: to look for a missing eleven year old who's only 204 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: four feet eight inches tall. How do you do that? Well? 205 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: I think you start with certainly on the inside of 206 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: the home. We're going to do an interview with the parents. 207 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: How long has he been there? Does he have anything? 208 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,079 Speaker 1: Of course, we might do a reverse nine one one, 209 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: so we would do we would let people know in 210 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 1: the area to look out for someone of this side. 211 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: After we would search the inside of the home, then 212 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: we would we'd start bringing in more resources. But my 213 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: question is how do you search a big rural area. 214 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: You're going to have to grid search, go through ditches, 215 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: the tunnels, underneath the road, sewage tunnels, you name it. 216 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: And a lot of these homes have let me just 217 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: say sewage out back. They're not into the city sewage system. 218 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: You have to look in those You have to look everywhere. 219 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: So what do you do first, That's my question. So 220 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: I start organizing that grid search book, also calling for 221 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: additional resources, additional officers, things like that. A lot of 222 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: times I'd take a dry race marker to the hood 223 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: of my patrol car and we would start mapping out 224 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: the neighborhood right there and start canvassing from house to 225 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: house to house to house, working our way out. I 226 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: would also assign details to each officer they came in. 227 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: Maybe that is you find out about all the friends. 228 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: You go that way, You look for all the schools 229 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: and go check the playgrounds. You know, I'm hearing in 230 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: my ear right now that we've got an update that 231 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: he was actually noticed to be gone at nine am, 232 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: nine am, not eleven am. Guys, take a listen to 233 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: our cut see. More than forty people from Jordan's place 234 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: of work joined in the search for Roman Lopez. Police 235 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: search the home in case the boy was hiding. Neighbors 236 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: help police search properties and outbuildings. More than two hundred 237 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: and fifty flyers were printed and handed out in restaurants, bars, parks, 238 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: and businesses all over town. The search continued for more 239 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: than fifteen hours, and come nightfall, Roman Lopez had still 240 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: not been found. Stepmother Lindsay Piper says police officers told 241 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: her they were hopeful he would just walk through the door. 242 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: You know, I wanted to go to you, doctor, Sherry Schwartz. 243 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: People parents say they believe the child is just going 244 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: to come through the front door. Why do they cling 245 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: to that for self protection? I think on some level, yes, 246 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: they think, oh, this is all this is just a nightmare, 247 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: but it's going to be easily resolved because kids do 248 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: these things without thinking and they're just going to come 249 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: home and they're going to be safe. And yeah, there's 250 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: a self protective factor in there, because the alternative is 251 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: just horrifying, right, and what parent wants to think my 252 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: child is missing and they may never come home. So 253 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: we know that over forty people from Jordan Piper's place 254 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: of work joined the search. That's a pretty good search team. 255 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: They searched the home where he lived in case he 256 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: was hiding. They searched it thoroughly. Let's never forget the 257 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: case with Jean and a Ramsay who hours after police 258 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: show up, have civilians search to home and they find 259 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 1: the dead child in the basement. Neighbors her help. They 260 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: go to properties, they go to outbuildings. They put up 261 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty flyers almost immediately in restaurants, bars, parks, businesses. 262 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: This goes on for over fifteen hours and then it 263 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: turns nighttime. Take a listen to our friends. Plasterville Police 264 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: Chief Joe Wren. Eleven year old Roman Lopez was reported 265 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 1: missing from twenty eight ninety two Colomba Street in the 266 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: city of Plasterville. At the time Romo was reported missing, 267 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: he lived in the home with his biological father, Jordan Piper, 268 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: his stepmother mother Lindsay Piper, and seven additional children ranging 269 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 1: in ages from one years old to seventeen years old. 270 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: The family had recently moved to Plasterville and it only 271 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,640 Speaker 1: lived at the house for a very short time, less 272 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 1: than two Two months after initial search of the home 273 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,360 Speaker 1: was unsuccessful, a second, more extensive search of the home 274 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: was launched. Class of all police investigators then located romans 275 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: deceased body inside a storage bend located in the basement 276 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 1: of the home. Two Doctor Michelle Dupre, forensic pathologists and 277 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide doctor Duprey inside a 278 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 1: storage bin. This child didn't run away, he was not missing. 279 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: He didn't put himself in a storage bin, put the 280 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: top over it, secreted away somewhere in the home, and 281 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 1: just die. Doesn't happen like this. This child had to 282 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: be murdered. That's right, Nancy. That is the only other 283 00:18:47,240 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: explanation you can come up with crime stories with, Nancy Grace. 284 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 1: I mean, doctor Dupree, you have done thousands of autopsies 285 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 1: and worked even more homicide cases. The reality is they're 286 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: only a handful, literally of causes of death COD. You 287 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: have natural, you have accident, you have suicide, you have homicide, 288 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:32,360 Speaker 1: and you have undetermined. Isn't it true, doctor Michelle Dupree, 289 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: that pathologists, medical examiners, corners look at so called extrinsic 290 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: evidence to determine COD and MD manner of death. You 291 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: don't just look at the body. Here's an example. I 292 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,959 Speaker 1: prosecuted a case where a woman, the wife of a millionaire, 293 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 1: died in a fire in the home. Turned out she 294 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: was covered in bruce. She dies of smoking hillation. But 295 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 1: when the fire truck pulls up, the husband is lounging 296 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: Romanesque style across the street in a neighbor's yard, watching 297 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:21,479 Speaker 1: the fire. He's fully dressed, including belt and wallet, and 298 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: when the fire truck pulls up, he talks for about 299 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: sixty seconds to two minutes and then says, oh, yeah, 300 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: my wife's in there. What all right? Then we find 301 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,199 Speaker 1: out that a few days before the fire, and I 302 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: went to a lot of laundries to find this, he 303 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: the husband, took out all of his shoes, all of 304 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: his nice suits and clothes and put the clothing in 305 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: a laundry to be dry cleaned. He had removed all 306 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: of his family photos, not her family photos, but his 307 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: family photos. He, unlike every night before this, according to 308 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: the neighbors, parked his car out on the street. Then 309 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: we find out he checked the weather the day before 310 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: the fire to find out if it was going to rain. 311 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: With all that evidence, the corner ruled that it was 312 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,640 Speaker 1: a homicide. So you do look at evidence beyond just 313 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: what you find in the body. Absolutely, Nancy. We look 314 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,360 Speaker 1: at what we call the totality of circumstances. We look 315 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: at scene markers. We certainly look at the body because 316 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: that's where most of our answers are going to come from. 317 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: But you're right, we look at everything else and then 318 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: we put it all together. We try so hard not 319 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: to get tunnel visions and focus on only one thing. 320 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: You have to look at everything and the surrounding circumstances 321 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: are a big part of that. Back to you, Dave, 322 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: miss Key, This little boy, just four feet eight inches 323 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: is found in a storage bin in the basement that 324 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: cops miss the first time they do an initial search 325 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: of the home. Hey, guys, take a listen to our 326 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: cut fourteen. In the initial search of the family's home, 327 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: police say they did not find anything, but in a 328 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: second search of the home, investigators are now revealing they 329 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: located Roman's body inside a storage bin in the basement. 330 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 1: An autopsy of Roman's body found no obvious trauma, but 331 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: found he was severely malnourished and dehydrated at the time 332 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: of his death. To you, Dave Minsky, were there other 333 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 1: boxes on top of him? Where was he in the 334 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,679 Speaker 1: basement or do we know that part? I haven't been 335 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: able to determine, Nancy. Like I said earlier, there's a 336 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: lot of little details they're just not really revealing, you know, 337 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: And what we do know, or what I was able 338 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: to determine, is that there are six other children living 339 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: in the house at the time, and when they found 340 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: Roman that he was quote severely malnourished and hydrated at 341 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 1: the kind of death. So that wouldn't show up immediately, 342 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Dupree, Or would it, because they're not able 343 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 1: to do a cause of death just by looking at 344 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,959 Speaker 1: the body. Well, it depends on how melinari she is. Nancy. 345 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: If you can look at you can see the ribs, 346 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,479 Speaker 1: and you can see the turger or the lack of 347 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,439 Speaker 1: that skin elasticity, you can tell how long that this 348 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 1: has been going on. Would that give you the cod 349 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: immediately just because you notice that he's underweight. No, we 350 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: would always do an autopsy. An autopsy is going to 351 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,640 Speaker 1: be the definitive. And how would they know just by 352 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: looking at him that he was dehydrated? Again, you look 353 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 1: at the skin, and if you pinch your skin on 354 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: your forearm and if it sort of stays tinted up, 355 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: then you're dehydrated. Very severe cases of that, of course, 356 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: are just going to stay that way. You can just 357 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,880 Speaker 1: tell by looking. I didn't understand what you said, doctor 358 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: Michelle dupre If you pinch your skin and what Yes, 359 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: pinch your skin right above your wrist on the forearm, 360 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: and if it sort of stays in that position tinted, 361 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: then you are dehydrated. Normal skin has a lot of 362 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: elasticity and flexibility, and you'll just pinch it and it'll 363 00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: go right back into place. With someone who is severely 364 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,639 Speaker 1: dehy I'd write it. It's called tinting, and it tends 365 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: up t O T E N t I n G 366 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 1: tinting Southern accident. No, I thought you were saying t 367 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: I N T I N tinting the same thing. Okay, 368 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 1: got it, Now that makes perfect sense. Let me ask 369 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 1: you this, doctor, Michelle D. Pree. So you find this 370 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: child's body eleven years old, four feet eight inches and 371 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: a storage been hidden in the basement. Can you tell 372 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: how long he's been there? Perhaps? Again, it's going to 373 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: depend totally on the condition of that body. Um, it's 374 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: just going to depend on the environment. Was this you know, 375 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 1: a moist basement, wasn't really dry? And again, what does 376 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 1: that body look like? Well, that's not really answering my question. 377 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: Can you be more specific? I mean, if if the 378 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: body had been there for a week, could you tell 379 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: that a day, three days, an hour, thirty minutes, How 380 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: could you tell? We're gonna look at the condition of 381 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: the body, how it is degraded, or how much decomposition, 382 00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: if any there is. We're gonna look at again that 383 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 1: can of the skin. Is it starting to slough off? 384 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: Is there any signs of again decomposition that is liquefying 385 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: or things like that. We're going to look at that 386 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: total condition. Look, I don't nobody wants to say it 387 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 1: out loud, but this is what an investigator and probably 388 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: a jury at some point is going to have to 389 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: figure out. You're just hearing from our friends at ABC 390 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 1: regarding the discovery of this child actually in a storage bin, 391 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,919 Speaker 1: a storage bin inside the family basement. The search is 392 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: called off obviously because the child has been found. That 393 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: was ABC ten. What do we know? What do we 394 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: know happened? So they find out I guess the mom 395 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 1: finds out the boys missing at nine. They search and search. 396 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: After two hours, they start going to police. They end 397 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,159 Speaker 1: up at the sheriff's department and the report is issued 398 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,360 Speaker 1: at one thirty. Still a long time. I'm curious why 399 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: they didn't call nine on one In any event, take 400 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: a listen to our friends. Zach Fuintus at ABC TIM 401 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: it seemed posters still line part of B Street in Plasterville. 402 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: That's where neighbors say eleven year old Roman Anthony Lopez 403 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 1: recently moved with his family. The community came together when 404 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: he was reported missing Saturday, but the search left everyone 405 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 1: with the result they dreaded most to have an eleven 406 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: year old boy die on us. That's it's pretty sad. 407 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 1: Plasterville Police announced Sunday at a brief press conference that 408 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: Lopez was found dead on Saturday and that his death 409 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: was suspicious. Today they provided this update and a Facebook 410 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: post saying that to protect the integrity of the investigation, 411 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: they will not release new information. For the first time, 412 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: they did confirm that there is no threat to the public. 413 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:49,919 Speaker 1: One Plasterville man I spoke what says he and his 414 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: family held on to hope when they first heard Lopez 415 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,679 Speaker 1: was missing. All of us decided to kind of get 416 00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:00,199 Speaker 1: together in the community and post and share about how 417 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 1: he was, how he was missing, and how it all 418 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: happened and how it all went down. And it was 419 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 1: in the midst of those efforts that Daniel says they 420 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: heard the tragic news of the boy's death. It just 421 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: kind of risk with a hardoye to Gerald Cohen, high 422 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: profile lawyer, former prosecutor of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Daryl Cohen, 423 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: they said, there's no threat to the public. We know 424 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,239 Speaker 1: what that means, right, That means watch out because they 425 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: are thread to the public that they just don't want 426 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: them to go crazy and worry and look under every rock, 427 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: every leaf to see if there is a thread. I 428 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: would have just the opposite. I would have said, we 429 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 1: know who the purp is, don't worry, we're on it. 430 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: No threat to the public. Seriously, they just said that 431 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: in the Alex Burdock case, didn't they, Jackie. Yeah, when 432 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 1: the wife Maggie and the son Paul are found shot dead, 433 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 1: they the police say no threat to the public. That 434 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: tells me they think they know who did it and 435 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: they don't believe that the perp is going to hurt 436 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: anybody else. You don't see that, Darryl Cohen. I see it. 437 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,400 Speaker 1: But then I see the other way as well. As 438 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: you want to make the public relax, and even if 439 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: you don't have the word, you don't have relax, so 440 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: you can end up dead in a trash ben too 441 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 1: in the basement. Well, really, relax, relax, don't worry. You're 442 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: not gonna end up dead. You're okay, just people, relax, Okay. 443 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,479 Speaker 1: I think that's best Ackwards, and I'm going to give 444 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 1: you a few moments to rethink your answer. Time Stories 445 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Take a listen to our cut four. 446 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: This is Jessica miss kt x L Fox forty. You're 447 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 1: the sweet kind little boy Herschell. Lopez is trying to 448 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: hold it together while her whole world falls apart. Her 449 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: only son, eleven year old Roman Lopez, found dead hours 450 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: after he was reported missing in Placid Villa. Her Bay. 451 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: Police are calling his death suspicious. I had to find 452 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: out that my son died from a news article. Nobody 453 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: called me. His dad didn't call me. She lives in Wisconsin. 454 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: The child's father is primary custody and recently moved his 455 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: family to this house on Colomba Street in Plasterville. I 456 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: ended up getting deployed when Roman was about a year old, too, 457 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: I react, She says. She came home from serving in 458 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: the military with PTSD health problems and substance abuse issues, 459 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: which is why she says she was not given custody 460 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: of Roman. This is literally my worst nightmare. You know. 461 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: I moved to Wisconsin and started treatment so I could 462 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: be back with my son, and it's like, I feel 463 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: like it just missed it. If I would have done 464 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: this a month sooner, maybe it would be different. Right now, 465 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: all Lopez can do now is hope for answers and 466 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: that her son didn't suffer. Oh my stars, Doctor Sherry Schwartz, 467 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: I can't even imagine, but by a mom is going through. 468 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: She gets deployed, want to go, She gets deployed to Iraq. 469 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: There she sees all sorts of atrocities. She comes back home, 470 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: has to go into PTSD rehab post traumatic stress syndrome 471 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: after what happened to her and being away from her 472 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: child in Iraq. I can't even imagine when my twins, 473 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: I think you live three part of this with me 474 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: went away for a week to scout camp. I thought 475 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: I was going to die that said. She comes back, 476 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: she can't have custody because she's in this rehab for 477 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: PTSD because of Iraq. She gets on drugs they give 478 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: her and gets addicted. She's got to get off that 479 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: to get the sun back. And while she's trying to 480 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: get herself straight. He ends up in a storage bin 481 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: in the basement. I mean, I don't know if she's 482 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: ever going to be able to live with herself after this. 483 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: This is so tragic. Here's a woman who honorably served 484 00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:00,239 Speaker 1: our country right and she suffers because of it, and 485 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: because she's trying to put herself back together. She leaves 486 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: her son in the trusted care she believes of his 487 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: father and his new girlfriend wife whatever she is, and thinks, Okay, 488 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: this has giving me the time to get myself back 489 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: together and then I'll be reunited with my son. So 490 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: here's somebody who's already suffering from post traumatic stress disorder. 491 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: This is a major setback, and that's an incredible understatement. 492 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: I mean, the level of treatment she'll need horrible, horrible 493 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: setback for this woman, the bio mother who thinks that 494 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: she's doing the right thing. So we find a little 495 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: boy in a storage bin in the basement. They can't 496 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 1: tell the cod but they do know immediately that he 497 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: is malnourished, and we also know that he is emaciated 498 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: and dehydrated. Straight back out to Dave Miski with the 499 00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: Santa Maria Times, While we don't have the final autopsy report, 500 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: I do notice that the stepmother, Lindsay Lindsay Pipe or 501 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 1: A thirty eight, has gotten a separate charge of willful poisoning. 502 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: Is that correct? Yeah? According to the Sacramento b Nancy 503 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: Lindsay was given that charge. In the charges quote had 504 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: mingled a poison and harmful substance with food, drink, medicine 505 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: and pharmaceutical product, and placed a poison and harmful substance 506 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: in a spring well, reservoir and public water supply. Doctor 507 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: Michelle Dupree, She obviously that sounds like part of a 508 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: statute straight out of a code book criminal code. She 509 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: obviously is charged with mingling some type of poison or 510 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: harmful substance in this child's food or drink. How can 511 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: you tell that from an autopsy, Well, Nancy Parking autopsy, 512 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 1: we always do toxicology, and that is where we would determine, 513 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 1: if any and the amounts of foreign substance that would 514 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: be in the body and what that substance is. Now, 515 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: when you do a typical lab set toxicology, do you 516 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: search typically for poison or do you have to does 517 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: the stay have to file a warrant? To have that done. 518 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: In most your sections, I do not have to file 519 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: a warrant for that, And depending on what the poison is, 520 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: heavy metals are not searched for routinely. Other items are 521 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: not searched for routinely. There is a standard set. It 522 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: includes street drugs as well as prescription drugs. If it's 523 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: something unusual, we would need to have a suspicion of 524 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: what that drug is in order to search for it. Guys, 525 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut seventeen. This is Plasterville 526 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: Police Chief. Although on autopsy revealed no obvious signs of trauma, 527 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: Roman was found to be severely malnourished and dehydrated at 528 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: the time of his death. Much of this case involved 529 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: the analysis of evidence, including obtaining search warrants to sees 530 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: electronic devices, review the data on those devices, working with 531 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: medical professionals and experts in the field of child abuse. 532 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: Adding to the complexity of this case was how often 533 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 1: the family had moved and the various agencies they had 534 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 1: encountered along the way. The combined investigative team contacted multiple 535 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:26,320 Speaker 1: agencies in another state, including child protective services, medical providers, 536 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 1: law enforcement, and the courts. Two doctor Sherry Schortz. You know, 537 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: I've prosecuted a lot of cases, a lot of homicide cases, 538 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: and the mind of a poisoner is completely different. Would 539 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: you agree, absolutely absolutely? I mean this is predatory behavior, right, 540 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: You are looking to do harm. I mean you are 541 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: watching your victims suffer from whatever they ingested. It's so intentional. 542 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,359 Speaker 1: There's no question that you didn't mean to do it. 543 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 1: I mean to you, Daryl Cohen, when you poison in someone, 544 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: there's really no question regarding intent. And I noticed the 545 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 1: step mother is charged with that, not the father. Yeah, 546 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: that's very interesting, Nancy, because poison is not something that 547 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: happened by accident. I didn't have my gun shoots somewhere 548 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: else and accidentally shoots someone. Poison is directed at the 549 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,359 Speaker 1: person or persons that you're trying to poison. And in 550 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,359 Speaker 1: this instance, obviously there was a very successful and very 551 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,799 Speaker 1: sad ending because of it. You know what I heard. 552 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Jill, go ahead to say this is not 553 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,439 Speaker 1: an accident. It's not all. Let's just take a look 554 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 1: and see if the anti freeze will work. Has happened 555 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,359 Speaker 1: here in Atlanta before, No, this is awful. If you're 556 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 1: talking about with Lynn Turner who poisoned not only a 557 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: husband but a boyfriend who Yep, she was busy. She 558 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: loved to buy anifrees and she loved to make jello, 559 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,360 Speaker 1: didn't she to? Justin boardman, did you hear at the 560 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 1: the get go where the coworker said the biodad, the 561 00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 1: bio dad. Jordan Piper got the call then called back 562 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 1: to the office and that you could tell he had 563 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: been crying. That's not consistent with him having poisoned the child. Well, 564 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: it's not consistent, but I mean you can also kind 565 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,959 Speaker 1: of fake crying sometimes, right. Well, on the other hand, 566 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: he may not have poisoned the child, but he certainly 567 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 1: had to be around when the child was being starved. 568 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: Absolutely certainly is part of this homicide. So these two 569 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: show up in court. Take a listen to Aurica nine. 570 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 1: This is Marissa Pelman at CBS thirteen Sacramento. The courtroom 571 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:42,279 Speaker 1: quiet this afternoon. Jordan and Lindsay Piper appearing here virtually 572 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 1: romans biological mom watching it all happen via YouTube from Michigan. 573 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,280 Speaker 1: She says she's not surprised by what happened today in court. 574 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: I'm totally disheartened, obviously, disheartened, but not surprised. The Lopez 575 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,800 Speaker 1: family spokesperson Christie jabs ellen burgs his Romans mom Richelle, 576 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,879 Speaker 1: was expecting the couple to plead not guilty. I think 577 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:07,720 Speaker 1: everybody who knows them kind of figured that they won't 578 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 1: accept any responsibility for anything. Jordan and Lindsay Piper appear 579 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: virtually from the El Dodo County jail, sitting side by 580 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: side in orange jumpsuits and masks, looking down at their hands. 581 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,320 Speaker 1: The Pipers charged with torture child abuse and Lindsay Piper 582 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,359 Speaker 1: facing poisoning charges. The eleven world was found dead, malnourished, 583 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,279 Speaker 1: and dehydrated inside a storage bin in the basement of 584 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 1: the family home, kind of like something out of a 585 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 1: really bad horror movie. Well, they may be crying in 586 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,360 Speaker 1: court looking down at their laps, but they weren't crying 587 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: and acting embarrassed when they were starving this eleven year 588 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 1: old little boy and when Stepmommy, truly the evil stepmother, 589 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 1: was literally poisoning him. According to the state. Now you 590 00:37:53,480 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 1: were hearing this little boy's mother, Rochelle, since she gave 591 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: that interview, she has passed on. She's in heaven now 592 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: with Roman, her son We don't know the cause of death, 593 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,319 Speaker 1: but we do know she lost her life after her 594 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: son was poisoned, dead, starved, and neglected by his own father. 595 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 1: Now who will speak for a little Roman? We wait 596 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: as justice un falls Nancy Grace Crimes Story, signing off 597 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:32,720 Speaker 1: goodbye friend.