WEBVTT - Ashworth. How an American dream became a nightmare. 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:08.080 Anyone who cared about the game of golf. I felt 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:12.000 like when you put on an Ashworth gvernment you were 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:14.920 connected to the soul of the sport. That is the 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:19.160 ultimate dream for anyone that's in the golf industry. If 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:23.720 you're able to exude that feeling that you actually are 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:28.920 somehow as relatable to the sport as anything, as much 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:33.320 as any golf course or any champion golfer, well you've 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:36.400 You've got yourself a great chance for success. And I 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:39.879 I truly can't think of many things in the history 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:43.600 of the golf industry that connected more with the soul 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:52.280 of the sport than the Ashworth Clothing Company. Put another log, 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:05.160 nobody here is welcome to the fire pit with Matt Chenella. 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:11.800 Welcome back to another trip to the pit. As many 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:14.280 of you know by now, I grew up in Santa Rosa, California, 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:17.280 played most of my junior golf at Oakmont Golf Club. 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:20.360 I ended up working and playing there through high school 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:23.959 and St. Mary's College in Moraga, California. Most of my 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:28.000 paychecks were spent on Ashworth golf shirts. I had the 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:30.640 pro shop trained to tip me off on delivery days. 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:34.240 They were definitely a comfortable fit, and as I addressed 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:36.600 the ball, I would lift a sleeve off my arms, 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:39.640 just like Fred Couples. And as I walked and carried 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:42.360 my bag, I tried to imitate the look of the 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:46.800 golf man the Ashworth logo. And then in two thousand two, 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:49.720 shortly after getting a job at Golf Digest, I was 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:53.120 invited to Brooklawn Country Club in Connecticut to play with 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:58.640 John Ashworth. The John Ashworth. I'm not wanting to get 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:02.200 star struck, but I was service that day. Fortunately for me, 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:05.520 the guy is in Arnold Palmer's league of gracious and charming. 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.720 I remember he asked about me, my career, my love 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:13.840 of the game. I remember his swing, his style, his tempo, 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:18.239 his soul full approach to life itself. Now he's like 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:20.639 a big brother to me, a friend and a mentor. 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.240 I've been an ambassador of his current brand, Link Soul 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:28.720 since two thousandt I'll wear anything he makes. I'll support 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:31.840 any cause he gets behind, which includes the rescue of 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:34.400 goad Hill Park, the many municipal that he grew up 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:38.760 playing in Oceanside, California. I say this often. John Ashworth 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:41.840 walks his talk. He isn't just the face of Godhill Park. 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:44.800 He's the first one to grab a shovel. As for 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:48.280 John Ashworth's American Dream, the story behind the building of 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:51.400 one of the great golf brands. As we've traveled the 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:54.400 world together to play in Ireland and Scotland and Pinehurst 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:58.240 and Bandoned, I've heard various versions of how Ashworth stormed 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:00.880 the gates of the golf fashion industry, but I've never 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:03.920 recorded it, and I've certainly never heard it from so 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.200 many of the other voices who were involved in such 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:10.480 a meteorc rise to the peak of apparel. Around this 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:14.760 fire pit, we hear from Jerry Monteo, John's business partner 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:18.480 in the making of Ashworth. When we started the company, 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:27.760 I had and John had of the company, and you know, 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:30.040 through the years, as we became a public company and 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:33.280 the stock crew and the company grew and what have you. Uh, 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:37.000 you know, I sold stock, uh you know, not all 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.400 at once, but you know, now and then I'd sell 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:42.960 some stock, you know, by a house or whatever I 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:47.320 was going to do with it. And so it was. 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:51.000 It was very successful for me. I made a good 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:54.440 amount of money in on Ashworth. We hear from Hank Cashworth, 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:57.600 his older brother, who eventually worked in sales for the company. 0:03:57.960 --> 0:03:59.760 If you were a golf guy and you were gonna 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:02.280 have to get gas and you got out of your car, 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:04.600 you it was a red flag you're a golf guy. 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:07.480 John just made it like you're a normal guy. You 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:10.080 could just be normal if you like golf. I got 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:12.440 time with John Cook, an eleven time winner on the 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:16.040 pg Tour and one of the original Ashworth Ambassadors. He 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:19.200 was just John B and John ash ash has never 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:22.840 changed in the forty plus years that we've known him. 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:27.039 I mean, he's been that guy. And to be trendy 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:30.240 like that and have something new to come out and 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:33.080 something that might change the world the golf for a 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:36.120 little bit was I want to be part of that. 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:40.719 I interviewed John Cook and Fred Couples together, which made 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:43.400 sense because they started with Ashworth together back in the 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:47.160 late eighties. Couples won fifteen times on the PGA Tour, 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:51.719 which includes the Masters, And one of the funniest shots 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:54.880 I've ever seen is when Tiger makes that put on 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:57.360 the on the seventeen fold TPC when he wins the 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:01.360 US Amateur and he's got that Ashworth as surt and 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:05.360 it looks. It looks so big, and he even been 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:07.240 He and I and I know John knows him better 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:09.600 than I do, but we laugh about that. He was, dude, 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:12.400 can you believe I used to wear those shirts you 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:14.640 guys used to wear? And I just laughed because that's 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:18.440 the first thing, that straw hat and this humongous golf 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:21.520 shirt on tigger. My final interview was with Jim Nance, 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:25.839 who has anchored The Masters since, started as an Ashworth 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:29.240 ambassador and went on to serve on the board of 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:33.680 the company. John Ashworth is one of the kindest, sweetest, 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:39.880 um authentic, real people I've ever had the blessing of 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:43.760 knowing in my life. I treasure him, treasure his friendship, 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:49.479 I treasured his soul. It's so pure. Every decision in 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:54.040 the making of Ashworth came from a place of trying 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:57.360 to make sure it honored the game. It really was 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:01.880 if you could take Golf in the Kingdom, that great 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:05.240 book Golf in the Kingdom, and turned it into a company, 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:09.760 turned it into an individual, that that was Ashworth, and 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:13.200 that was John Ashworth. And of course I spoke to 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:16.240 John Ashworth, the fifth of six kids, who was born 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.279 in Los Angeles in fifty nine to a school teacher 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:23.080 and a nurse. Soon after moving south to Escondido, in 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:27.240 Harry and Mary Lee Ashworth gave their eight year old 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:30.760 and ultimatum that would change his life and the fabric 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:35.320 of golf forever literally. And I think my mom and 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:38.760 dad colluded and said, Okay, look at he's he's either 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:41.640 got to go to Sunday school. He's gonna go caddy 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.160 for you because my dad played every Sunday with his buddies, 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:49.200 you know, Don Patrol. And and so they presented this 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:51.400 to me like, Okay, look at you either go to 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:54.200 Sunday school or you caddy for your dad. And I'm like, 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:59.520 I'm candying for dad? Are you kidding me? If golf 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:03.280 was john first love, fashion wasn't far behind. And I 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:07.159 was always really conscious of you know, I was. That's 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:10.640 the one thing I think the constant for me was 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.120 I was always really aware of what I was wearing 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:17.000 and was really conscious of you know, style even back then. 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:20.480 I mean I wore Hank Tin was really big back then. 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:23.320 Remember the Hank Tin shirts with a little Yeah, it 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:26.920 was a pretty big surf culture thing. Hey. Cash Worth 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:30.160 reflects on his brother's style. He always liked to dress nice. 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:33.080 You know, it always if you saw photos of him, 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:37.280 he was buttoned up. Where you know, guys maybe at 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:41.200 that age or when you're a junior golfer somebody in college, 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:43.520 you're just kind of a dorky did You're not that 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:47.280 interested in how you look. I think he always was that. 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:50.760 But back to John's golf. Yeah, I played golf in 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:52.680 high school, had a pretty good little high school career, 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:54.760 and then played one year at junior college. Had a 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:58.440 really good year at junior college, got recruited Arizona, went 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:01.080 to Arizona, you know, and uh, you know, had a 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:04.280 good time. But I my golf career became super mediocre. 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:06.160 You know. I was the middle of a pact guy, 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:09.240 and so he was good. I went to go went 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:12.920 to Arizona on a golf scholarship, and I think his 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:16.120 first sophomore year he was third in the Pac Tens 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:20.200 and the final in the tournament. I know one time 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:22.160 he played in the field of a hundred and forty 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:25.280 four players that are really good course up in the 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:29.080 l a called Valencia, and he beat the field by 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:31.600 by at least four. He shot sixty seven. The next 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:35.760 closest guy was seventy one, So so he had a 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.880 lot of game, you know, I don't it seemed like 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:41.440 he's junior year. He went sideways and went backwards and 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:45.400 then kind of lost the I don't know, the urge 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:48.080 or or maybe thought that he wasn't good enough. John 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:52.320 graduated from Arizona with a degree in agronomy, got out 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:55.920 and got a job, and of course, you know, uh 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:59.280 down the road in del Mar. You know. So I 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:03.480 was living in San Diego and having to get up 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:06.200 at like, you know, four thirty five am every morning 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:09.760 and to get to work. And I lasted about six 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:13.400 or seven months because you know, the party scene down 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:15.920 a Mission Beach was pretty good, so it was really 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:18.640 hard to h it was really hard to make that 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:21.679 wake up call. And then this little course called Fairbanks 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:24.199 Ranch opened up. He's still living with me, still how 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:26.880 to commute up to del Mar, and he became an 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:30.559 assistant golf pro. That lasted about the same So he 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:32.280 didn't really I don't think he ever knew he was 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:36.800 getting into fashion business or clothing business. That's when he 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:38.960 that's that's about the time when he decided he was 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:41.360 going to go caddy from Mark and get out of 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:44.319 that whole world. You know, as we learned in episode 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:46.800 one of the fire Pit, John and Hank Ashworth grew 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:50.480 up with Mark Weeby Web had turned pro in and 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.840 both Ashworth brothers always had an open invite to Caddy 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:56.640 from Mark on tour. The story that we told that 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:59.959 kicked off this podcast was about John carrying Marks back 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.760 for a little over a year and eventually the Masters, 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:05.640 he got his card and we went on the tour 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:09.120 and skipped around that and that was that was a blast. 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.040 But I never wanted to do that long term. So 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:17.280 but his sponsor was a guy by name of Jerry Montiel, 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:21.160 and Jerry and I became friends. He was probably fifteen 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:25.080 years older, very successful business guy, and he was starting 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:30.199 another company that was sporting good store, kind of high end, 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:32.920 and you know, he goes, hey, John, don't you come 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:35.720 work for me? You know, why don't you come? You know, 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:37.559 I was like the first employee of him and his 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:41.000 partner that started to sing. The sporting good store didn't 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:43.440 make it, but it left both Jerry and John thinking 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:49.840 about other business ventures. When I when I started the company, um, 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:54.840 it was really a case also of the fact that uh, 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:57.400 you know, I was interested in golf and everything, but 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:00.360 but none of the apperil fit very well. Here was 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:04.360 and nothing had changed fashion head. It was that, you know, 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:08.160 the big stiff collars and the bright, loud colors, and 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:12.160 you know, it was just stuff you would never be 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:15.680 caught dead off the course. And I don't know why 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.320 anybody would be caught dead on the course in it either. 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.400 As Montiel recalls, it was on the drive to Escondido 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:25.000 to look into buying driving ranges that the conversation shifted 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:27.719 to shirts. I said, I don't know how to do it, 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:31.440 but I know there's a niche to do some some 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:34.199 cool golf clothing. That guy's my age here, I am 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:38.080 twenties six years old. I would want to wear, you know, 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:42.680 And and he was just like, bingo, that sounds good. 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:46.760 You know, let's let's do that. So um kind of 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:50.560 off we went. I mean, I probably was was was okay, 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:52.720 but in the back of mind guard what not. Hell, 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:58.520 you got no shot at this, you know. Um, I 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:00.599 wouldn't think I'd ever just swear him or you know, 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:03.000 and just say, yeah, let's he should rock, let's go. 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:07.720 I don't think anybody would have thought this, you know. 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:11.520 As I continue to learn and telling these iconic narratives. 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:14.600 Going the opposite direction of the masses can often lead 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:19.600 to great success. Initially, we raised some seed money and 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:23.960 family and friends, kind of deal and kind of cool. 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:26.280 My dad was still alive, you know, he was kind 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:32.240 of fighting some health issues, and but you know, I 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:34.600 told him what I was doing, and I thought he 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:36.760 was gonna think I was crazy, but he was. He 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:40.800 was like, God, that's awesome, you know. And he scratched 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:43.079 out a check for seven grand. You know, he did 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:46.640 this little family. I know, it's so coabate framed, it's 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:48.760 so quit, didn't have much money, but man, he fucking 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:53.520 you know, he got behind. It was really cool. John's 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.240 first step was immersing himself in the fashion markets of 0:12:56.320 --> 0:13:00.679 Los Angeles. He'd make some appointments, getting an elevator and 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:04.199 start learning from anyone willing to share. It was sweaty 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:06.760 pump time because I thought, this guy's gonna say, you 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:09.080 don't know what the fun you're doing? Yeah, you know, 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:12.199 and I would just go, I don't know what i'm doing. 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:14.480 You know, I don't know what i'm doing. I need help. 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.000 I know what I'm looking for. I just would be 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:20.480 honest and just I'd ask so many stupid questions, you know, 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:22.920 but I think that's the only way you kind of 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:25.200 get to it, you know. Dude, he didn't know a 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:28.920 sock from shirt. I mean technically, I mean he did, 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:30.720 but he didn't know how to make any of that. 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:34.600 But he he disappeared for four years. I didn't see 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:38.760 the guy. He was gone. John Ashworth was off getting 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:43.360 his masters in making clothes. It is a miracle that 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:47.920 we that company made it when I look back on it, miracle. 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:53.079 You know. It was before cell phones, it was before computers, 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:58.280 there was any We didn't even have a fact, you know. 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:01.640 And then you and then on top of that zero experience, 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:05.319 didn't have a fucking clue what I was doing. Uh. 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:07.880 You know, the girls that I hired were super sweet, 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:09.560 but they didn't They didn't really know what they were 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:14.400 doing either. But somehow, some way, we cobbled together a 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.040 sample on and even when you know what it should 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:19.000 look like and feel like, you still have to have 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:22.440 someone making which is why they went to f Fashion, 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:25.640 a manufacturing company that just happened to be down the street. 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:27.840 We showed him the shirt and we said can you 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:31.080 make this? And he says, yeah, he's I can, and 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:33.400 he was kind of a Southern guy and he uh 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:40.120 will put the fun accent tremendous man. Uh and he 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:42.760 he says, but we're too busy. You know, we were 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:44.720 too busy. And we went there about three thirty in 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:46.800 the afternoon when they were closing up and they were 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:51.600 drinking Budweiser beer. And so the next day John I 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:55.520 went over with a case of beer. Uh and uh 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:58.720 we ended up drinking that beer with him and a 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:01.280 couple of his U guys that worked for him. And 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:06.320 you know, that night about I don't know, six seven 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:08.480 o'clock at night, you know, he was putting his arms 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:10.320 around me and said, we'll make that shirt for you. 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:15.640 And from there they they made all of our shirts, 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:19.960 everything made in San Diego County, and they had about 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:22.840 three employees that did all have cut and so for us. 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:27.240 And without them, we would have never been successful, or 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:29.640 at least not as successful as we were, because they 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:32.960 dedicated their whole business to us, and we were there 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:38.000 exclusive uh customer. They had made a lot of product 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:42.400 for Ocean Pacific before that, and they they ended up 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:45.640 only making product for us. So we had great success 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:49.160 with them. Going back to why Ashworth was unique. John 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:55.880 shares his vision for the line. I went completely, uh, 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:58.280 you know, against the grain in terms of you know, 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:06.480 cotton um like all the shirts did. I went, we 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.240 went with nit callers instead of like self calling. Now 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:11.400 we do a lot of self callers, you know. I mean, 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:14.200 it's just it's better looking, it's probably easier. But we 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:16.840 went with those nick callers with a little stripes in them, 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:22.480 and um, you know, it was actually a little bit oversized. 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:25.560 If you can remember. It's kind of payable to look 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:29.480 at now. And I see a video Ralph Lauren had 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:34.600 a had a U shirt called a big shirt at 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:37.920 that time, and it was an oversized shirt, etcetera. And 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:40.160 so we just you know, just kind of talk it 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:43.840 from him. Everyone was so tired of being so in 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:47.000 these tight polyesters that like a breathable cotton that's just 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:51.480 big and lucy. It felt good, you know what is 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:55.040 it feels so good? Through a mutual contact, This is 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:57.960 when John reaches out to Barry Grimes, who worked for 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.520 NBC Studios at the time but was also away photographer, artist, 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:07.000 designer and eventually a colleague and close friend. Unfortunately, Grimes, 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.400 who still lives in Carl's Bad is in his third 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.760 year of battling brain cancer and wasn't available to share 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:15.960 his side of this story. But as John reflects on 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:19.800 the late eighties, his first call to Grimes was about 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:24.520 the need for a logo. I called Barry and I'm 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:26.600 explained Abouchael Barry. You know, I'm trying to do this 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:30.479 new clothing line and I wanted to be sort of like, 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:35.320 you know, old school meets new school. I'm really into 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:38.520 walking and you know, the traditions of the game, but 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:41.520 I wanted to be hip and modern. And you know, 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:43.480 I'm just telling all this stuff like, you know, I 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:45.719 love Scotland. I've never been to Scotland. I've never been 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:47.960 to Scotland. I love Scotland goes. I've been to Scotland's 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:50.919 you know. It's like, you know, and and you know, 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:53.520 so we're just talking on the phone and unbeknownst to me, 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:58.400 he's actually, you know, as artists do, he's actually doodling 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:01.320 in sketch and he actually drew through the golf man. 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:08.080 From that conversation, Barry Grimes is enormously talented. Um, he's 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:12.479 aid and he was a huge, huge part of our success. 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:16.480 Uh you know, I mean his photography and and the 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:18.960 looks and feel of what he could do was was 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.600 just tremendous. But that's how the logo started. The Ashworth 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:26.000 the Golf Man what we called it, and uh was 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:28.840 from Barry Grimes. As for the name of the company, 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:32.320 we tried, sticks, we tried, I don't know. We had 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:35.960 like a few different names, but everybody was. John and 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:37.719 I were sitting and we were talking about it and 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:39.840 I and I said, John, we got to name this 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:42.760 company Ashworth. And he said, what don't you call it, 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:44.760 Marti l And I said no, I said, I think 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:50.400 Ashworth is you know, it's two syllables. It's it's got uh, 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:55.359 it's it's easy to pronounce, it's very English and uh, 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:58.320 I said, I think it's a perfect name for golf. 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:02.280 And of course it ended being that, but John was 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.000 John was a little humble about that and a little 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:09.919 embarrassed to me, uh call it by his name, but uh, 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:12.640 you know, it was the best thing for the company, 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:16.920 and it was certatle good for John too. In John 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:20.560 Cook won the International, Fred Couples won the Byron Nelson 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:22.960 and they lived near each other at Mission Hills Country 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:28.840 Club in Rancho Mirage, California. Ashworth needed ambassadors, if we 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:32.720 could have anybody on the tour, you know, and I knew. 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:36.159 I said, Fred's the guy. Uh you know, I played. 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:38.600 I didn't play with him or against him in college, 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:40.960 but I played in some similar tournaments. I saw him, 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:43.600 I'd see him. And then of course he was already 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:45.879 a couple of years into his career, you know, and 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:49.760 he was just he was just Fred. He was just cool, 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:52.879 you know, you just he was cool. And then I 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:55.119 knew John Cook a little bit, and I knew John 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:57.920 Cook was It was kind of like Butch Cassidy and 0:19:57.960 --> 0:19:59.560 the Sun Dance Kid a little bit, you know, you 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:01.480 got It's kind of nice to have two guys that 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:04.960 are totally different and stand out and look different. John 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:08.360 Cook and then Fred couples on their first meetings with Ashworth. 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:12.840 When John showed up at our place, I'm gonna say 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:17.200 fall of nineteen seven, and he had called me up 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:19.680 and said, Hey, I've got a line of clothes i'd 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.120 love to, you know, have you take a look at. 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:25.920 And I just started wearing the kind of flowy, pleaty 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:30.399 pants and bigger shirts and I just wasn't into the 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:34.000 you know, the daffinies and all that stuff of the world. 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:37.200 So I was I said, sure, yeah, let's let's let's 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:39.439 go for this. I want to dress you know, a 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:43.359 little bit differently. And I'll never forget. He took the 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:46.120 clothes out, put him on this rack, wheeled the rack 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:49.080 into our house and there were the clothes and it. 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:54.080 I went, okay, now we got something here. Yeah. I 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:56.920 think Matt right after he left John's house he came 0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:59.679 over to my house and had the same had the 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:03.480 same little steel thing. He wield it in there and um, 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:07.960 I you know, I used to represent back then landmarks. 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:10.240 So we would go in and I think Cookie did 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:12.760 two at Mission Hill. So we would go in and 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:15.040 we would just take any shirts, you know, with the 0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:18.320 tree logo on him and leave. And then when when 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:21.000 this started with John, it was an eighty seven. John, 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:25.040 you are exactly correct. Um. I mean I put a 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:28.960 couple of shirts on and I'm like, you know, wow, 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:33.000 this is the biggest shirt I ever had. The design 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:36.639 of it was incredible, and we talked for a second. 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:41.960 But Jerry Montiel is also um a guy that that 0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:46.000 really new clothing. Um. I don't know if he knew 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:49.119 what guys like John and myself and Mark Weby wanted. 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:52.960 But I know John Ashworth, did I remember we had 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:55.479 this our office space in l A was on the 0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:58.960 seventh floor of this old downtown l A. Was so gross, 0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:01.000 it was, you know, back then it was even worse 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:05.560 than it is today. And uh, you know, Barry and 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:08.160 the two girls and we had a little sample sewer 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:11.320 and and we had the line on the rack, you know, 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:15.040 ready to go, and we did. We did this whole 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:18.479 you know seance and gave it a prayer and you know, 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:22.199 Barry did this whole thing. Boom, went down the elevator, 0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:24.640 put in my car and just started trying to hit 0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:27.320 places up and down the coast of California. I think 0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:29.439 I went to Lahoya Country Club first because my buddy, 0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:32.200 I had some buddies that was you know, Rick Riley 0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:35.560 and Brad Wheeley were the assistant pros, and I knew 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:39.320 they'd have me. First of all, we said, we're only 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:42.119 going to sell to green grass accounts. We're only going 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:44.679 to sell the places that have a golf course. You know, 0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:46.919 we weren't going to sell to a discount store or 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:51.680 something like that. So so they the golf pros liked 0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:55.679 us because they had it basically had an exclusive on it. Uh. 0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:59.520 We also made it for golf. Uh. You know, we 0:22:59.600 --> 0:23:02.520 had the shirts with a longer tail so it didn't 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:05.639 come out when he swung the club. Uh. We used 0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:10.720 great fabric. Uh, you know, our fabric we chose h 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:16.120 was was top of the line and and so as 0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:19.199