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Speaker 1: Hey, there're folks, it is Monday, July twenty first. Is

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Speaker 1: it racist or does it have a nice ring to

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Speaker 1: it depends on who you ask. Welcome to this episode

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Speaker 1: of Aby and DJ Robe we are. I can't believe

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Speaker 1: still talking about the term red skin in terms of

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Speaker 1: the Washington Redskins, a name they got rid of, a

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Speaker 1: controversy that'd been going for decades. We thought was over.

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Speaker 1: It's back front and center, and only one man could

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Speaker 1: possibly have us talking about it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the President of the United States, because he would

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Speaker 2: prefer a lot of people believe for us to all

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Speaker 2: be talking about the Washington Redskins and the Cleveland Indians

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Speaker 2: rather than his possible potential relationship involvement with Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 3: So yes, he is.

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Speaker 2: Trying that is cynical roads. I'm also just referring to

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Speaker 2: what a lot of other folks are pointing to that

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Speaker 2: this could be a very cleverly tim wag the dog

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Speaker 2: situation where President Trump is trying to create another conversation

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Speaker 2: that sets people off and gets people fired up and

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Speaker 2: creates a lot of controversy and conversation. And so this

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Speaker 2: might be a classic deflect and distract method by the President,

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Speaker 2: or perhaps he just suddenly felt impassioned by this and

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Speaker 2: the timing is not coincidental, So let's go with this.

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Speaker 1: This is not new for him. He's been talking about

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Speaker 1: this for years, frankly that he didn't appreciate that people

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Speaker 1: are changing names. So the Washington they went by Redskins

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Speaker 1: for ninety years or so. The Cleveland Indians the saying

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Speaker 1: they changed their so the Guardians and the Commanders are

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Speaker 1: now the Commanders. So he has spoken out Robock about this.

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Speaker 1: I guess this elevated because not only now that the

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Speaker 1: President over the weekend say he wants the Washington Commanders

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Speaker 1: to change their name back, it came with a pretty

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Speaker 1: specific threat and it's a big deal in the DC area.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, he said that he wants these team owners,

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Speaker 2: the Washington Redskins and the Cleveland Indians to get it done,

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Speaker 2: to change their name back.

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Speaker 3: But he specifically has some.

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Speaker 2: Capital potentially over the Washington Redskins, who are looking to

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Speaker 2: create a new stadium from an old stadium, the RFK Stadium.

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Speaker 2: And so they were given the land, or at least

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Speaker 2: they were, DC was seated the land by President Biden

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Speaker 2: so that they could then go into a contract of

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Speaker 2: sorts with the Washington Commander is correct. I have to

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Speaker 2: make sure not to say I've lived in DC for

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Speaker 2: so many years, and so it's so easy just to

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Speaker 2: have Washington Redskins roll off the tongue. But yes, the

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Speaker 2: Washington commanders to eventually make that their home, and the

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Speaker 2: President is threatening to disrupt those plans, and so he

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Speaker 2: is trying to do what he thinks he can to

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Speaker 2: create a rethinking of the name of the Washington Redskins.

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Speaker 3: The owners are saying, not so fast.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, nobody's thinking about radar. Where did this come from?

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Speaker 1: This has not been a part of conversation. It kind

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Speaker 1: of came out of nowhere. They went through all this

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Speaker 1: to change their names, their logos, all that merchandise, the

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Speaker 1: branding on the stadium, everything they did that they were

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Speaker 1: not considering at all changing the name, period, point blank,

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Speaker 1: and they made that clear. But the President, for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: is on one now. We don't know. Yes, he came

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Speaker 1: with a threat, but we don't actually know if he

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Speaker 1: has the ability to stop that deal or not. He

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Speaker 1: can certainly make it disruptive, as he is able to do.

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Speaker 1: But Roopes I was even hesitant as we were taught

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Speaker 1: We went round and around about this story on Morning

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Speaker 1: Run this morning before we even recorded it. It meaning

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Speaker 1: like we're doing this again. Is this just another throwaway?

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Speaker 1: Are we about to start to have this debate all

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Speaker 1: over again about that name? And I bet most people

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Speaker 1: who are listening right now probably don't know where it

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Speaker 1: comes from, why it's offensive, or even if it's offensive,

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Speaker 1: because for years, one of the arguments that some Dan Snyder,

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Speaker 1: who was the owner at the time, and others have

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Speaker 1: made was that, hey, look at this poll here, the

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Speaker 1: majority of people aren't offended by it, or they pull

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Speaker 1: to some research say, hey, when the word first came

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Speaker 1: about in history, it wasn't derogatory. They use those two

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Speaker 1: things as their reason, right.

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Speaker 2: President Trump has tried to say that this is actually

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Speaker 2: honoring Native Americans, that we are regarding them and putting

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Speaker 2: them up in history as warriors is something to be applauded,

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Speaker 2: a sign of strength, the sign of courage. Yes, so

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Speaker 2: they're saying this isn't derogatory, this isn't negative. But that

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Speaker 2: poll that you're referencing, The Washington Post actually conducted a

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Speaker 2: poll back in twenty sixteen when this was being talked about. Yes,

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Speaker 2: Dan Snyder was the owner back then, and their poll

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Speaker 2: said nine to ten Native Americans are not offended by

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Speaker 2: the Redskins name. So they had a survey, I'll give

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Speaker 2: you the specifics of five hundred and four people across

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Speaker 2: every state, including the district, and they said that the

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Speaker 2: minds of Native Americans were unchanged. The last time a

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Speaker 2: poll had been done was two thousand and four, so

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Speaker 2: twelve years ago they said no one was offended, and

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Speaker 2: twelve years later, in twenty sixteen, they said no one

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Speaker 2: was offended. And in fact, they said among the Native.

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Speaker 3: Americans that they were able to talk to over a.

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Speaker 2: Five month period said seven and ten didn't feel that

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Speaker 2: the word redskin was even disrespectful to Indians. So forget

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Speaker 2: about whether or not they cared if it was the

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Speaker 2: name of the Washington football team or not. They said

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Speaker 2: that they did not think it was disrespectful, and an

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Speaker 2: even higher number of this one kind of threw me

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Speaker 2: eight and ten. According to this Washington Post, Pole said

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Speaker 2: they would not be offended if a non Native American

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Speaker 2: called them that name.

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Speaker 3: That is hard for me to believe.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, a white person calling a Native American a

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Speaker 2: redskin would not be offensive.

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Speaker 3: I that's wild to me.

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Speaker 1: Okay, And several other groups came out and immediately took

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Speaker 1: issue with that polling. Who did you ask? How was

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Speaker 1: this done? They immediately kind of shot this thing down,

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Speaker 1: as to your point, that's ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: That seems insane, and it doesn't make sense like that

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Speaker 2: would be offensive to anyone, I would imagine.

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Speaker 1: So that's okay. So they point to some poles. But

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Speaker 1: then they want to go to history. And this is

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Speaker 1: where we need to have a better understanding here, folks,

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Speaker 1: because folks will say, hey, look, that word started out

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Speaker 1: not as a negative, so therefore you can't tell me

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Speaker 1: it's a negative now because it started out that way.

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Speaker 1: The argument now, according to what scholars at the Smithsonian actually,

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Speaker 1: they said that the word was actually used, or at

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Speaker 1: least Native Americans refer to each other or different groups

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Speaker 1: by colors or that color skin folks, this color skin folks,

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Speaker 1: and red skin was kind of loosely translated by French

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Speaker 1: explorers who came here, colonists, some what I want to

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Speaker 1: call them, the colonizers.

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Speaker 3: Different words for everybody.

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Speaker 1: Apparently we won't get into that historically, but the French

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Speaker 1: came here, we're hearing it trying to translate. Someone wrote

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Speaker 1: it at some point and it was read by many

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Speaker 1: as po rouge means red skin. Is how it was

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Speaker 1: interpreted over the years, and that's sure fine. Initially, Robes,

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Speaker 1: it was not a negative. It it damn sure became

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Speaker 1: one over the years and even over the centuries.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 2: Po rouge actually is a wine that I actually was

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Speaker 2: looking this up as well.

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Speaker 3: It's a French wine known for.

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Speaker 2: Being made from red skinned grapes. So yeah, that is

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Speaker 2: a direct translation. Red skin is exactly what po rouge means,

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Speaker 2: and so yes, there were plenty of folks who initially

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Speaker 2: were like, okay, that's just the description, but it obviously

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Speaker 2: became derogatory pretty quickly. I mean, most Native American communities

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Speaker 2: now would consider that and it is considered by all

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Speaker 2: dictionaries as a racial slur, as something that is deraga

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Speaker 2: tour reap without a doubt.

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Speaker 1: In cartoons, do you remember how Native Americans were depicted

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Speaker 1: in cartoons? You're right, And some people will point you

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Speaker 1: to a nineteen thirty something Tom and Jerry that was

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Speaker 1: titled what was it, Redskin Blues where they were attacked

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Speaker 1: Tom and Jerry by Native Americans at the end, just

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Speaker 1: American culture, where there's music, where there's movies, and the

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Speaker 1: imagery over the years, redskin has become negative. You cannot

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Speaker 1: argue with that.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting too, because it's amazing where we were

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Speaker 2: just now talking about it, perhaps in twenty sixteen around

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Speaker 2: that time, and then obviously now again once again after

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Speaker 2: everything changed around twenty twenty. But if you go back

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Speaker 2: and look and do the research, by the nineteen sixties

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Speaker 2: it was widely understood as offensive period. So you think

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Speaker 2: about all those years ago in the nineteen sixties when

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Speaker 2: we had all sorts of cultural issues happening there as well,

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Speaker 2: the Civil rights era, all of that, they were like,

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Speaker 2: even then, it was negative, and there is a claim

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Speaker 2: in history where it may be shifted and turned. Apparently

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Speaker 2: a lot of folks say that the term became used

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Speaker 2: when they were referencing paying bounties for Native American scalps,

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Speaker 2: which were sometimes referred to as red skins. So that

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Speaker 2: also plays into all of this as well, and they

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Speaker 2: were saying that is a direct connection, a direct point

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Speaker 2: in which there was a derogatory condition placed on that

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Speaker 2: specific term.

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Speaker 1: And we're saying here, folks, I don't know how much

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Speaker 1: more evidence there needs to be, but there is no

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Speaker 1: argument that that word is fully understood to be negative. Now,

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Speaker 1: I have never heard anyone like the N word, right,

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Speaker 1: I've never heard anybody call someone that in the Native

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Speaker 1: American community to their face as an insult. I've never

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Speaker 1: heard that.

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Speaker 3: No, I haven't either.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that actually happens, but the word

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Speaker 1: is offensive. We have the definitions here from Cambridge Dictionary,

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Speaker 1: Merrion Webster, and dictionary dot Com. Not a single one

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Speaker 1: of them suggests this word should just be used loosely

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Speaker 1: in casual conversation.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 2: Merriam Webster says, used as an insulting and contemptuous term

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Speaker 2: for an American Indian. The Cambridge Dictionary says an extremely

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Speaker 2: offensive word for a Native American. It says member of

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Speaker 2: one of the groups of people who were living in

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Speaker 2: North and South America before Europeans arrived. Yes, Native Americans,

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Speaker 2: dictionary dot Com said, says it disparaging and defensive.

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Speaker 3: That is how the term redskin is referred to you.

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Speaker 1: No, I was debating even I don't know what if

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Speaker 1: we say this, and I've read some stuff where I

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Speaker 1: mean Native American writers would go our word. Oh wow,

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Speaker 1: they're doing this like inward and I it made me

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Speaker 1: stop and think, like, what is the I know, customery.

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Speaker 1: We're sitting here saying it loosely, there is no big deal.

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Speaker 1: But if someone on the other end, a native of

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Speaker 1: an American is hearing that come in their ears the way

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Speaker 1: I hear the inward come into mind from a non

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Speaker 1: black speaker, that would completely change this game.

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Speaker 2: Up. Yeah, I've never heard of anyone saying the R word,

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Speaker 2: but I think, you know, if you I mean, I

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Speaker 2: think that could be where we end up. You know,

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Speaker 2: we all evolve based on what is offensive to people,

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Speaker 2: and some things were offensive and then they don't, they

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Speaker 2: aren't any more, and some thing's become more offensive, and

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Speaker 2: we just have to evolve and respect where people are

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Speaker 2: who They're the only ones who can say whether or

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Speaker 2: not we have to refer to it as the R word.

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Speaker 2: But yes, as short as period five years ago, six

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Speaker 2: years ago, we were saying it like it was just

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Speaker 2: an everyday average word. I mean again, I lived in DC,

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Speaker 2: so it was just hearing that. I have to stop

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Speaker 2: myself and think about what the name of the team

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Speaker 2: is because for so long, even as a newscaster reporting

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Speaker 2: on the Washington Redskins. It was just it flows right out.

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Speaker 2: It feels normal, it feels natural, and that's the whole point.

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Speaker 2: It shouldn't if we look at the dictionary definition of

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Speaker 2: how all this word is regarded. We need to retrain

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Speaker 2: our brains. And that's okay. It's okay to say, whoops.

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Speaker 2: We shouldn't be saying that word anymore. So should we

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Speaker 2: have not been even saying the word in this podcast?

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: That's a question I would ask somebody else outside of

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Speaker 1: our communities, but I do. I think everybody on everywhere

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Speaker 1: you see it, it's reported this way and they say

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Speaker 1: it that way. There's no way you would ever turn

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Speaker 1: on the TV and they want to change it to

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Speaker 1: the Washington in words, you would see that.

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Speaker 3: No, everywhere, you're not gonna.

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Speaker 1: See that word. Nobody's just gonna let that roll off

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Speaker 1: their tongue. Then why do we allow this one? We

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Speaker 1: are not. We just having conditioned ourselves to understand just

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Speaker 1: how offensive this word is. Now, I'm not suggesting that

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Speaker 1: the N word and the R word are right, should

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Speaker 1: be the same, are in the same category, and the

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Speaker 1: least I'm not saying that, but if a Native American

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Speaker 1: tells me that that's what that word means to him

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Speaker 1: or her, then I will listen to that.

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Speaker 2: And I'm it's interesting too, because I just really think

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Speaker 2: when it comes to what's right and what's wrong on this,

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Speaker 2: it has to come from the community itself.

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Speaker 3: It just does.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's no one else who can say whether

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Speaker 2: it's offensive or not other than Native Americans period period.

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Speaker 2: They should get the final word. They should get the

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Speaker 2: final say. I am so okay with that.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about the evolition of words. Can you imagine now?

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Speaker 1: We say it no problem reported all day on TV,

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Speaker 1: the NAACP, the NAACP. But go out today and try

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Speaker 1: to call a group of people colored people and see

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Speaker 1: what happens. The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

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Speaker 1: That was a different time where that word or that

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Speaker 1: usage was okay. We decided it wasn't anymore, and you

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Speaker 1: can't do that, you NCF the United Negro College.

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Speaker 3: I was just gonna ask about that other word.

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Speaker 1: Und negro. Good luck going out there calling somebody a

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Speaker 1: negro on the street.

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Speaker 2: Today it changes, And I've even seen a recent headline

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Speaker 2: saying they want to do away with African Americans.

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Speaker 3: They don't want anyone.

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Speaker 2: Else referring to black people as African Americans, because not

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Speaker 2: all black people come from Africa. I mean in terms

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Speaker 2: of you know, maybe you could go back to the

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Speaker 2: beginnings of time. But people identify as a lot of

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Speaker 2: other things other than African American. And their skin may

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Speaker 2: be black, or they may be they may identify as black,

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Speaker 2: but they don't identify as African Americans.

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Speaker 1: Oh giggling because I had a weird moment over here

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Speaker 1: because I almost naturally just asked a white woman what

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Speaker 1: black people want to be called African American? So what

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Speaker 1: do we want to be called.

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Speaker 2: Now, white lady, whatever you say, please let me know.

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Speaker 2: But that's just the point that things do change. Things

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Speaker 2: that were once okay are not anymore. And that's okay too.

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Speaker 2: And I know this whole war against woke is a thing,

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Speaker 2: and I get that to an extent. We can't go

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Speaker 2: too far and over corrections. But why is it ever

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Speaker 2: a bad thing to make sure somebody doesn't feel offended?

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Speaker 2: If it's within an it's an easy thing to do.

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Speaker 2: It's not a hard thing to do, now, I get it.

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Speaker 2: Was an expensive thing to do initially for or the

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Speaker 2: Washington Redskins and the Cleveland Indians to have to change

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Speaker 2: all that you pointed out, logos and marketing and just everything.

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Speaker 1: So twenty million I think is reported right.

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Speaker 2: So there is a significant cost to that, but the

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Speaker 2: benefit I think is worth it in the end, because

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Speaker 2: you don't want to have something or a team that

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Speaker 2: you're heralding and you want people to be championing and

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Speaker 2: then have it somehow just polarized folks and make people

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Speaker 2: feel et cetera, or not included or degraded. That's just

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Speaker 2: not ever going to be something you want as a

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Speaker 2: part of sports.

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Speaker 1: So all of this, all those decades of this debate,

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Speaker 1: all those decades of the team having that name, finally

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Speaker 1: got resolved, we thought, at least in twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 1: they started competing as the Washington Commander, so they've had

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Speaker 1: three full seasons. But why when you go back really

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Speaker 1: to nineteen thirty three with the owner call his team

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Speaker 1: the Washington our words in the first place. Turns out

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Speaker 1: it has to do with the Boston Red Sox.

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Speaker 2: And welcome back everyone to this edition of Amy and TJ,

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Speaker 2: where we are talking about.

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Speaker 3: Well kind of what Trump wanted us to be talking about.

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Speaker 2: But still it's an interesting debate to have whether or

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Speaker 2: not he has a first of all, the right the

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Speaker 2: authority to ask team owners from the Washington Redskins the

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Speaker 2: Cleveland Indians to change their names back to those monikers

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Speaker 2: I just referenced instead of their newly more appropriate and

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Speaker 2: less offensive current names of the Washington Commanders and the

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Speaker 2: Cleveland Guardians. Yes, it takes me a second, but yes,

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Speaker 2: I want to keep reiterating that these are the new.

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Speaker 3: Names that came about because they were.

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Speaker 2: Deemed defensive by Native Americans, and rightfully so.

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Speaker 1: For a law long time these debates have been going on.

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Speaker 1: But that's the one when you argue that everybody has

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Speaker 1: been most after you have what is it, Florida State,

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Speaker 1: the Seminoles down there.

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Speaker 3: But there's a big butt to that.

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Speaker 2: I have relationship the Seminole, like the Indian tribe specifically

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Speaker 2: gave them permission to use their tribe in their name,

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Speaker 2: and you know what, that's when it's okay, because yes,

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Speaker 2: the argument is that there these are ways to honor

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Speaker 2: the legacy of Native Americans and their fierceness and their

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Speaker 2: fight and their warrior like mentality, and so of course

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Speaker 2: it makes sense to have a sports team that's fighting

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Speaker 2: and it's about physical strength and all of those things.

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Speaker 2: So so many people argue that it's a compliment to

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Speaker 2: Native Americans, but the people who are saying it's a

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Speaker 2: compliment are people who are not Native American. So I

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Speaker 2: really don't think you get to say. However, when you

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Speaker 2: do have a group of folks like the Seminole Indians

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Speaker 2: say it's okay, we're proud that you're using our name,

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Speaker 2: then yes, great, amazing. You literally got permission from a

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Speaker 2: group makes it okay.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't realize, but the Utah University of Utah,

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Speaker 1: they are named the Utes yep. I didn't realize their

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Speaker 1: name prior to the Utes was Redskins, the Utah Redskins.

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Speaker 1: And then in collaboration with the Ute Indian tribe in Utah,

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Speaker 1: which the state is actually named after, in collaboration with them,

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Speaker 1: they got permission to use the name, and they have

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Speaker 1: a great relationship.

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Speaker 3: Out there now, and that's amazing.

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Speaker 2: I also saw the Central Michigan University Chippewas the chipwas

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Speaker 2: name and imagery approved by the Saginaw Chippewa Indian tribe.

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Speaker 3: So that like, that is the way forward.

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Speaker 2: If this tribe says, hey, you have our blessing to

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Speaker 2: use our name or our imagery to show you are

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Speaker 2: a fighting, winning team, go for it.

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Speaker 3: That's the way to do it.

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Speaker 1: And those were specific, right, those were specific to tribes.

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Speaker 1: Use chipewall, you name seminoles, redskins is like a general term. Right,

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Speaker 1: You can't ask permission from entire community. And you said,

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Speaker 1: they say these are tributes. And I have down the

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Speaker 1: National Congress of American Indians, which is a group the

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Speaker 1: longest I guess serving a group in the country that

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Speaker 1: actually represents Native Americans. And to that point, robes about

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Speaker 1: these being tributes, and I quote, these depictions are not tributes.

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Speaker 1: They are rooted in racism, cultural appropriation, and intentional ignorance.

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Speaker 1: Now that's an interesting one, Like we choose to be stupid,

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Speaker 1: we choose to say, yeah, we're honoring you. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: word that seems very dismissive, like we don't want to listen.

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Speaker 1: You're dismissing the people who have a claim. That's interesting

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Speaker 1: and I think it's dead on intentional ignorance.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a really good way to put it.

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Speaker 2: And They went on to say, for too long, they

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Speaker 2: perpetuated harmful stereotypes that degrade, dehumanize, and harm the well

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Speaker 2: being of Native people using basically, yes, Native Americans as mascots,

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Speaker 2: so to speak, which oftentimes, you know, look, you've got

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Speaker 2: your hogs, I've got my dogs. Usually, very often we

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Speaker 2: see them mascots as animals, as fierce animals in a

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Speaker 2: lot of ways. And so yes, I didn't think about

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Speaker 2: it that in that way, that it's dehumanizing, and obviously

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Speaker 2: it's generalizing, and like the Native Americans might be the

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Speaker 2: most peaceful pacifist ever, but yeah, they're depicted as being

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Speaker 2: these warmongers, these savages.

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Speaker 3: Yes, the sages' they've been attached to.

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Speaker 1: So if yes, we have a mascot the University of Arkansas,

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Speaker 1: y'all got a dog, Well he's a sweet little thing.

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Speaker 1: He's not exactly fierce.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but bulldogs, you know, they can be a little

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Speaker 3: they can be rough. Things are supposed to inside fear.

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Speaker 1: Imagery of something that can't be tamed, right, Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: so you need it that way. This makes it pretty clear.

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Speaker 1: But this next one I was point of you two ropes.

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Speaker 1: Native people are not mascots. We have our own language, cultures,

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Speaker 1: and governments. Our identities are not anyone's mascot or costume.

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Speaker 3: They say, as well, that is so true.

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Speaker 1: I just don't know what argument we can have here.

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Speaker 1: So why would a guy name his team? This was

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Speaker 1: interesting history that I didn't know, Robes. But when this

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Speaker 1: team Washington that we now know is the Washington Commanders.

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Speaker 1: It was founded in nineteen thirty two in Boston. Didn't

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Speaker 1: realize that, but they were the Boston Braves of the NFL. Well,

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Speaker 1: the Boston Red Sox and the Boston Braves of the

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Speaker 1: Major League Baseball League played at Fenway Stadium. Yes, there

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Speaker 1: was a Boston Braves football team and a Boston Braves

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Speaker 1: baseball team that were both in town. The Boston Braves

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Speaker 1: football team was going to have to start playing at

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Speaker 1: Fenway some games, so the owner, mister George Preston Marshall,

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Speaker 1: I believe he's his name, he said, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to I don't want any confusion with the Boston Braves

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Speaker 1: baseball team when my Boston Braves football team shows up

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Speaker 1: to play, So I'm just gonna change the name of

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Speaker 1: my team. And that is where he landed with this name.

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Speaker 1: So it was the Braves football team. It was kind

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Speaker 1: of similar redskin if you will, in that Native American vernacular.

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Speaker 1: But that is how the team started in the first place,

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Speaker 1: is because there was another team of the same name,

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Speaker 1: and the guy needed to mix.

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Speaker 3: It up, so he changed it too, the Redskins, Wow.

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Speaker 1: The Boston Redskins, and then they moved to DC a

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Speaker 1: few years later. But that's it really came about because

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Speaker 1: he needed to distinguish his team from another team was

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Speaker 1: there that was called the same thing.

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Speaker 2: I was a little confused too, because Boston Red Sox,

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Speaker 2: that's not that is nothing, that has nothing to do

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Speaker 2: with Native Americans. I started to think I started to

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Speaker 2: go down that road in my head.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I was all. They just happened to have to

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Speaker 1: all share wow Fenway Park, and he didn't want confusion

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Speaker 1: between there being a baseball team and a football team

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Speaker 1: having the same name, so he turned them into the Redskins.

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Speaker 1: The rest is now history. And then that history rogues

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Speaker 1: got changed in twenty twenty. Why all the name change

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Speaker 1: that's been talking about for a long time, but it

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Speaker 1: really ramped up specifically in May of twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: Yes, George Floyd and certainly at that point we started

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Speaker 2: to rethink about, well, so many things, and how we

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Speaker 2: refer to people, how we treat people, how we hire people,

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Speaker 2: how all of those things. There was a there was

436
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 2: an absolute cultural revolution, a race revolution, so to speak.

437
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 2: We had to rethink everything. After the death of George Floyd,

438
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 2: there was an uproar. There was an uprising, and one

439
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 2: had been brewing for a very long time, you.

440
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 1: Know what you say. There was a people were in

441
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 1: a hurry to change things. I wonder if we gave

442
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: some things enough thought. And I'm not arguing about whether

443
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: or not the name should have been changed for the

444
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 1: Washington team, but swear he died George Floyd in May

445
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty. I think they announced in July of

446
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, Okay, we're going to change the name. That's quick.

447
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 1: I mean, after decade of this debate, that seems like

448
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: a rash of rush decision, reacting to a moment. Even

449
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 1: if it was the right decision, was it handled the

450
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: right way? The optics of this now it's just.

451
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 2: I mean, people do point to oftentimes what we've seen

452
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 2: in history is sometimes you have an overcorrection. And we

453
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 2: were talking about black versus white but then everyone starts

454
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 2: looking at every single marginalized community and how can we

455
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 2: do better? How can we be more aware or more

456
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 2: woke in those moments? And so, yes, there was financial

457
00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 2: pressure that actually ultimately create the change that we saw.

458
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, that probably is, But doesn't it always go back

459
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 3: to that?

460
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,959
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I think about it now, But still just

461
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: that it had to happen that way. And there's a

462
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:15,199
Speaker 1: conversation we're having now about the name and incorporating the

463
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: opinions of those who are impacted by that name. Right,

464
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,360
Speaker 1: I was enough of that. There wasn't a national conversation.

465
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: It wasn't time enough to in a month to do that.

466
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 2: Everyone wanted to look as though they were listening and

467
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 2: they were making changes, and this was a.

468
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 3: Part of it.

469
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 2: It's wild to think that that one event sparked so

470
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 2: many reactions from so many people. And yeah, we're still

471
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 2: dealing with the aftermath of all of that now.

472
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 1: But again, Ken Trump, that's the question, wrong, can Trump

473
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 1: even do this? We don't know.

474
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 2: You know what's interesting, So I Time magazine actually today

475
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 2: talked about they actually found a quote from President Trump

476
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 2: back in twenty thirteen where he said this our country

477
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 2: has far bigger problems, focus on them, not nonsense, He

478
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 2: tweeted back then it was an x. He said that

479
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 2: Barack Obama should not be telling Washington, DC's NFL team

480
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 2: to change their name. So he was saying when Barack

481
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 2: Obama was urging and suggesting that yes, it was time

482
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 2: to change the name of the Washington Redskins, Trump actually

483
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 2: tweeted that this was nonsense, that we had bigger problems

484
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 2: to focus on in our country.

485
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 3: And oh the irony.

486
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 2: Now twelve years later, he is asking the country to

487
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 2: focus on a name change, to rechange a name that

488
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 2: was changed, because that's where he wants to focus now

489
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 2: of our country.

490
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 3: Just wanted to.

491
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 2: Bring up that little fun tweet that was unearthed by

492
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 2: Time magazine today.

493
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 1: You don't, and he'll make the argument that I didn't

494
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: want them to change the name in the first place.

495
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,120
Speaker 1: I'm not urging the change the name. I just want

496
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: them to go back to what they were.

497
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 2: I'm sure make America, make make Washington's NFL team great again.

498
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: Or racist again, whatever you want to put it. Well, no,

499
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: it's it is fascinating, but it is. But folks, please

500
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 1: don't for a moment in any conversation you have about

501
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: this use as a defense that the word didn't start

502
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: out as a negative word. It doesn't matter how it started,

503
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: it's where it is and where we all understand it

504
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 1: is right now. We can't use that or ignorance as

505
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 1: an excuse for what is blatant racism in the eyes

506
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: of people who see that word and have lived that life.

507
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 1: So just please don't do that.

508
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 2: Yes, and we always appreciate you listening to us and

509
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 2: always want to hear what you have to say, so

510
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 2: please feel free to let us know. We'd love to

511
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 2: hear you weigh in on this Amy and TJ podcast.

512
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 2: We've got an Instagram page we always put some stuff up,

513
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 2: so feel free to weigh in say what you think

514
00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 2: about this and if we should even be talking about

515
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 2: this at this point after a decision has already been made,

516
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 2: but we love to always hear what you think.

517
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to us on.

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00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 2: This Monday, I made me roback on behalf of my

519
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 2: partner t J Holmes.

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Speaker 3: Have a great day, everybody,