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Speaker 1: On this episode of Newtsworld. In his new book Blood Money,

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Speaker 1: Peter Schweizer and his team of forensic investigators spent more

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Speaker 1: than two years scouring a trove of restricted Chinese military documents,

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Speaker 1: data mining a mountain of American financial records, and tracking

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Speaker 1: US political leaders, investments, and family businesses. Schweitzer unloads bombshell

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Speaker 1: after bombshell, exposing the Chinese Communist Party's covert operations in

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Speaker 1: social media, the American drug trade, social justice movement, and

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Speaker 1: the medical establishment to sow chaos in the United States.

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Speaker 1: Here to talk about his new book, Blood Money. I

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Speaker 1: am really pleased to welcome back my guest and good friend,

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Speaker 1: Peter Schweitzer. He is the president of the Government Accountability

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Speaker 1: Institute and the former William J. Casey Fellow at the

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Speaker 1: Hoover Institution at Stanford University. Peter, welcome and thank you

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Speaker 1: for joining me again on NEWTS World.

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Speaker 2: Great to be with you. New to Zoeys, thanks for having.

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Speaker 1: Me, and I have to congratulate you. Blood Money is

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Speaker 1: number one on the New York Times Hardcover Nonfiction bestseller

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Speaker 1: list this week. That's quite an achievement.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you, thank you new I just think it

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Speaker 2: shows American people are concerned about their country and they

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Speaker 2: think this topic is important, and I share that view obviously.

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Speaker 1: Well, I want to start with something which is very current,

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Speaker 1: which is I want to get your take on the

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Speaker 1: House vote on Wednesday passing a bill that would force

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Speaker 1: TikTok's Chinese owner, Byte Edance, to either sell the app

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Speaker 1: or be banned in the United States. You talk about

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Speaker 1: TikTok's relationship to the Chinese Commanist Party and blood money,

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Speaker 1: and then, as you know, the House voted three fifty

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Speaker 1: two to sixty five, and you had a huge buy

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Speaker 1: bipartisan vote, but several Republicans and Democrats did express their

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Speaker 1: opposition to the bill based on free speech concerns. What's

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Speaker 1: your general reaction.

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Speaker 2: I'm very, very supportive of the bill. It certainly doesn't

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Speaker 2: solve all the problems, but it solves some of them.

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Speaker 2: The bottom line is is that the Chinese Communist Party

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Speaker 2: believes and knows that TikTok is a powerful tool to

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Speaker 2: steer the conversation and manipulate young people in the United States.

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Speaker 2: I quote in the book Chinese military officials calling it

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Speaker 2: the ultimate trojan horse, and the Chinese officials at by

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Speaker 2: Dancing and the government talk openly about how it is

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Speaker 2: a powerful tool to manipulate young people. So there's no

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Speaker 2: question the threat that it represents, and it seems to

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Speaker 2: me the only solution here is to get this out

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Speaker 2: of the control of the CCP.

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Speaker 1: Given Facebook and Google and everything else we've had in

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Speaker 1: this country, why do you think TikTok took off so decisively.

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Speaker 1: I think something like one hundred and seventy million Americans

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Speaker 1: use TikTok.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, two things new. The first thing is that it

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Speaker 2: really exploded because of the pandemic. So the pandemic a

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Speaker 2: lot of people were sitting around board. The short video

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Speaker 2: platform by design is highly addictive. That's part of the

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Speaker 2: appeal of the algorithm. But the second thing I would

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Speaker 2: say is that I discussed this in the book. When

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Speaker 2: byt Dance unrolled TikTok, they explicitly marketed it to young

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Speaker 2: people as a parent free zone. But the nature of

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Speaker 2: the TikTok platform is such that it's not like Facebook

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Speaker 2: or Twitter now x, where other people can see the

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Speaker 2: same feed that you're getting, or somebody can friend you

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Speaker 2: to see what you're posting. The anonymous nature of this

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Speaker 2: platform TikTok and the fact that each person gets a

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Speaker 2: unique feed appealed to young people, and in fact, Byke

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Speaker 2: Dance pitched it as a parent free zone, so I

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Speaker 2: think that's the other reason it really took off. It's

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Speaker 2: enormously popular, particularly among young people in America, and that

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Speaker 2: is partly by design by this Chinese company.

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Speaker 1: Which frankly shows a pretty sophisticated level of awareness on

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Speaker 1: their part that they could launch something like this, and

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Speaker 1: in a world that has Apple and Microsoft and Facebook,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, they've been pretty formidable competitors.

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Speaker 2: They have, and it's really the algorithm that is so

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Speaker 2: powerful in essentially being able to predict what people want

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Speaker 2: to see. The problem is is that this algorithm is

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Speaker 2: potent commercially, but the Chinese state has actually designated it

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Speaker 2: as a state secret, so it's not only just a

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Speaker 2: corporate secret, it's a state secret. And there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of work that by Dance, the parent company, does with

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Speaker 2: the Chinese Ministry of State Security on the whole issue

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Speaker 2: of manipulating people online. That's the explicit part of their research.

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Speaker 2: So there's a lot of effort that goes into this,

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Speaker 2: not just by byt Dance, but by the Chinese government

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 1: So what are the prospects if this bill also passes

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Speaker 1: the Senate and President Biden has already said that he

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Speaker 1: would sign it, what are the prospects of the Chinese

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Speaker 1: simply refuse to sell it and close it down.

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Speaker 2: Then I think it probably will be shut down. I

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Speaker 2: think you're quite right to emphasize that China does not

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Speaker 2: want to give up this tool. They see it as

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Speaker 2: a powerful tool. My position is that we should have

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Speaker 2: reciprocity with China if we allow them to have these

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Speaker 2: kinds of ownerships of media outlets in the United States,

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Speaker 2: and TikTok is really the premier media outlet for people

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Speaker 2: under the age of forty in the United States. We

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Speaker 2: ought to have the same access to their market. They're

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Speaker 2: certainly not going to give that to us. I think

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Speaker 2: it's going to be interesting to see what happens in

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Speaker 2: the Senate. I think there's going to be mounting opposition.

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Speaker 2: TikTok is rallying the forces in terms of lobbying, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: And honestly, call me a cynic, but I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: that Joe Biden really wants to sign this bill. I

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Speaker 2: feel like he has to say that he will sign

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Speaker 2: the bill, but his real hope is that this thing

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Speaker 2: is going to die in the Senate.

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Speaker 1: And given the size of the majority in the House,

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Speaker 1: do you think there'll be enough fear of China pressure

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Speaker 1: that the Senate will feel compelled to pass it.

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Speaker 2: I think it's really going to come down to the

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Speaker 2: leadership on both sides, the Democrat leadership and then also

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Speaker 2: Mitch McConnell in the Senate. You know, McConnell of course

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Speaker 2: is going to be giving up his mantle of leadership.

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Speaker 2: But as I've highlighted before, I mean, there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of things that I think Mitch McConnell has done well

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Speaker 2: as a leader. But there is this entanglement with a

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Speaker 2: family business in China. Essentially, if Mitch McConnell were to

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Speaker 2: do something to really offend China, and I would say

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Speaker 2: supporting this TikTok bill would be it. The Chinese government

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Speaker 2: could destroy the Chow family business overnight, and that would

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Speaker 2: mean a heavy, heavy financial cost to Mitch McConnell and

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Speaker 2: his wife. So I think it's really going to come

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Speaker 2: down to leadership. This is an odd series of coalitions

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Speaker 2: for and against this bill. You have in the House,

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Speaker 2: and I think in the Senate you're going to see

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Speaker 2: the same thing. Some of the more libertarian members of

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Speaker 2: the Senate, people like Rand Paul, who I agree with

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Speaker 2: on a lot of issues, but I think, has taken

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Speaker 2: sort of an absolutist position that the government should not

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Speaker 2: break up this company, and I think that's just an

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Speaker 2: unrealistic look at what this threat really represents. On the

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Speaker 2: other hand, you have people on the left who are

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Speaker 2: perhaps not as concerned about China as you might consider,

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Speaker 2: but the concern about big tech in general, and they

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Speaker 2: see this as an opportunity to try to deal with it.

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Speaker 2: So odd coalitions on both sides. I'm hoping the Senate

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Speaker 2: will take it up and it will pass, but there's

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Speaker 2: going to be a lot of twists and turns. I

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Speaker 2: think before that happens.

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Speaker 1: It's impossible to have a significant firm in China that

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Speaker 1: is not acceptable to the Chinese Communist Party. It's just

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Speaker 1: literally impossible. And so you have something like one hundred

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Speaker 1: and thirty Communist Party members who hold management positions at

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Speaker 1: bite Dens. You have the content review mostly are communist

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Speaker 1: Chinese Communist members, and you go down this list twenty

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Speaker 1: four of the employees that buy Dance and TikTok worked

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Speaker 1: at the People's Daily, which is the official mouthpiece of

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Speaker 1: the Chinese Communist Party. It seems to me as a

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Speaker 1: national security matter, this shouldn't be a complicated issue.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't think it is. I mean, look By Dance,

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Speaker 2: its offices are not far from the Ministry of State Security.

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Speaker 2: They do joint research with the Ministry of State Security.

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Speaker 2: They have ties to other parts of the Chinese government.

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Speaker 2: The notion that we are going to give this company

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Speaker 2: unfetter access to young people in America is patently absurd.

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Speaker 2: And you know, when you go through and look at

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Speaker 2: how the Chinese think about this. I quote from military

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Speaker 2: officials and people from the Ministry of Propaganda some of

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Speaker 2: the internal documents where they discuss this, they lay it

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Speaker 2: out explicitly how they use this to in effect deconstruct

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Speaker 2: young people in America, to get them to reject their

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Speaker 2: historic pass to reject national symbols, because by doing so,

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Speaker 2: you can break them down and you can inculcate your

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Speaker 2: own values into them. And keep in mind that the

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Speaker 2: head of editorial content for Bye Dance, which of course

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Speaker 2: controls TikTok, the head of editorial control at by Dance

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Speaker 2: happens to be the head of the Chinese Communist Party

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Speaker 2: sell at by Dance, so we know what kind of

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Speaker 2: editorial position that they're going to take. And to me,

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Speaker 2: if this is not a red line that has been crossed,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what the red line would be. So

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Speaker 2: I will be absolutely staggered if there isn't a consensus

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Speaker 2: forge that this bill doesn't pass.

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Speaker 1: How hard technically would it be to build a parallel

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Speaker 1: algorithm if TikTok disappeared.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it'd be difficult. I think that some

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Speaker 2: of the other companies that are out there have set

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Speaker 2: up competitors, things like re. These are short video platforms,

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Speaker 2: but they're not as potent as what ByteDance does. They're

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Speaker 2: not as good, and what the byte Dance algorithm has

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Speaker 2: always been about has been about addiction. ByteDance has recognized

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Speaker 2: this from early on. That's why in China they don't

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Speaker 2: have TikTok, but they have an equivalent. It's called Doyon.

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Speaker 2: Doyon after two hours get shuts off. You are not

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Speaker 2: allowed to watch it continuously. That restriction on the product

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Speaker 2: in the United States doesn't apply. So yeah, you can

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Speaker 2: develop algorithms, but the algorithm has to be designed perfectly,

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Speaker 2: but it also needs to learn by the amount of data.

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Speaker 2: And what ByteDance has such a head start on is

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Speaker 2: it has billions of users around the world and it

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Speaker 2: feeds this algorithm fine tunes the algorithm. So whatever is

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Speaker 2: out there competing against it is probably not going to

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Speaker 2: be as good. But look at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: I think, especially with the US investors involved, if this

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Speaker 2: bill passes, is they're going to try to save the

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Speaker 2: company by selling it to somebody in the United States,

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Speaker 2: because otherwise these investors all lose their money. There's nothing left.

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Speaker 2: TikTok has been banned in India, they lost hundreds of

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Speaker 2: millions of users there. If it's banned in the United States,

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Speaker 2: this product has lost its luster and its value. So

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Speaker 2: I think they're going to try to save it in

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Speaker 2: some form.

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Speaker 1: And none of those investors are American.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yes they are. It's big investment firms like Carlisle

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Speaker 2: Group has a steak. Jeff Yass who's a big investor

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Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania, has a large steak. The estimates there are

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Speaker 2: his stake could be worth fifty billion dollars, so there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of money at stake. I certainly understand people

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Speaker 2: have invested in a commercial venture. The problem is is,

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Speaker 2: if you deal with China, you're going to have to

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Speaker 2: expect that there's going to be these kinds of situations arise.

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Speaker 2: If you're an investor in a Chinese company and you

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Speaker 2: besmirch or criticize that company, they can actually take your

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Speaker 2: ownership shares away. So they had to know going in

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Speaker 2: that there were risks in these investments. I think their

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Speaker 2: best solution, rather than fighting this bill is to recognize

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Speaker 2: that at least with this bill, they have an opportunity

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Speaker 2: to make money by having this app sold to an

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Speaker 2: American company, and maybe the Americans can retain their ownership stake.

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Speaker 2: I don't see why not.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's probably conceivable tho it could be

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Speaker 1: turned over to the people who've already invested in it.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: There's the concept of cognitive warfare. This is so different

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Speaker 1: than the Western way of war. Can you sort of

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Speaker 1: walk us through what do the Chinese mean when they

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Speaker 1: talk about cognitive warfare?

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Speaker 2: Well, their view of warfare with the United States is

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Speaker 2: very different than our concepts. They don't think exclusively or

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Speaker 2: even largely in terms of a kinetic war, that is,

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Speaker 2: a war with missiles and tanks and people shooting at

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Speaker 2: each other. They view it more holistically as a battle

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Speaker 2: between the intellectual and creative power of China versus the

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Speaker 2: United States, and so they call their strategy towards US

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Speaker 2: disintegration warfare. This is based on a book published in

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Speaker 2: twenty ten. President g has embraced it, and part of

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Speaker 2: disintegration warfare. The name applies, of course, that they're seeking

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Speaker 2: to disintegrate or fragment the United States. A subset of

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Speaker 2: that is the cognitive war which is to essentially dumb

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Speaker 2: down and weaken the intellectual capacity of the United States.

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Speaker 2: And this includes several facets. One of those, of course,

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Speaker 2: is TikTok. The TikTok that we have is basically cotton candy.

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Speaker 2: It's girls in blue hair screaming about one issue or

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Speaker 2: the other. The equivalent in China, Douyon is really about

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Speaker 2: engineering culture history. It's a much more serious app So

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Speaker 2: that's part of the cognitive warfare, but it also includes

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Speaker 2: other elements as well. There's a huge problem in the

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Speaker 2: United States right now with illegal marijuana growth that are

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Speaker 2: taking place. These are illegal operations from California to the

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Speaker 2: state of Maine that are growing highly potent marijuana illegally.

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Speaker 2: And the stunning reality is, according to law enforcement, ninety

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Speaker 2: five percent of these operations are run by Chinese nationals

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Speaker 2: that are oftentimes illegally in the country. They get investment

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Speaker 2: capital from China and then they run these operations. They

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Speaker 2: view marijuana and particularly this potent marijuana that they grow,

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Speaker 2: as another form of cognitive warfare that sort of dumbs

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Speaker 2: down Americans, and of course they make money along the way.

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Speaker 2: So it's a huge problem and we need to wake up.

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Speaker 2: We need to have a strong military, but we need

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Speaker 2: to recognize China does not mean to have a shooting

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Speaker 2: war with the United States. They believe that they can

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Speaker 2: defeat us without actually having to fight.

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Speaker 1: Part of what they talk about is the whole concept

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Speaker 1: of information driven mental warfare, and part of that. I

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Speaker 1: was intrigued with the point you made, which is China's

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Speaker 1: role in the video game industry. I mean, you wouldn't

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Speaker 1: even think of this normally, but talk briefly about the

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Speaker 1: whole concept of ten Cent in the way in which

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Speaker 1: they've moved into video games.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty startling. I don't play video games, but

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Speaker 2: I certainly have people in my life that do and

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Speaker 2: enjoy it. China has invested in more than eight hundred

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Speaker 2: video game companies in the West, and these include the

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Speaker 2: companies that are producing the most popular games out there.

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Speaker 2: That comes with a price, though these investment dollars influence

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Speaker 2: the theme and the elements of the story in a

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Speaker 2: way that resonates with the CCP. So what that means

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Speaker 2: is that they like games that highlight the strengths of

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Speaker 2: China and the weakness or the failing power of the

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Speaker 2: United States. And it's not blatant, it's oftentimes very very subtle,

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Speaker 2: but it's an important component of what they view are

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Speaker 2: these cultural products. That includes TikTok, that includes video games.

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Speaker 2: It also includes movies, animated movies, and live action movies

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Speaker 2: from Hollywood, and these cultural products they view as important

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Speaker 2: weapons that are shaping the view that younger people around

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Speaker 2: the world and the United States have towards the CCP.

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Speaker 2: You see that in video games, you see that in movies.

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Speaker 2: You can look at a movie like there was a

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Speaker 2: move a few years ago called The Martian with Matt

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Speaker 2: Damon where he's an astronaut and American astronaut trapped on Mars. Well,

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Speaker 2: that film was partly financed by the Chinese. And if

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Speaker 2: you remember what was the story, how did this American

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Speaker 2: trapped on Mars get rescued? He got rescued by NASA.

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Speaker 2: But NASA got special technology from China. That's how they

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Speaker 2: were able to rescue this stranded American. And you see

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Speaker 2: that repeated over and over and over again. Maybe in

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Speaker 2: an isolated case, it's not a big deal, but if

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Speaker 2: you're a young person and you continually see this theme

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Speaker 2: of China superiority, American corruption and laziness, you start to

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Speaker 2: believe that the future does reside with China, not with

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Speaker 2: the United States.

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Speaker 1: There's also an information gathering about you as a person.

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Speaker 1: So the games you play, the things you value, combined

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Speaker 1: with what you learn off of TikTok, they're acquiring a

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Speaker 1: huge database of individual Americans on a scale that in

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Speaker 1: our country would be illegal.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's exactly right. And to your point about video games,

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Speaker 2: a lot of people that do gaming now they do

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Speaker 2: gaming in groups as a team, but the team members

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Speaker 2: are somewhere else that are in a different city or

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Speaker 2: a different state, and they communicate through these headsets with

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Speaker 2: voice communications. Well, guess what, these game companies certainly can

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Speaker 2: gather all that information, collect all that information. They now

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Speaker 2: have a very nice voice imprint of you. You may

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Speaker 2: be sharing personal information as you're talking to people on

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Speaker 2: these game platforms. So yeah, the collection of data is

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Speaker 2: an enormous problem. Of course, you play a lot of

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Speaker 2: these online games. You're giving credit card information so you

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Speaker 2: can get game updates, etc. All of this is going

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Speaker 2: to these companies, and even if it's a US based company.

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Speaker 2: The agreements include that the Chinese investors in these companies

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Speaker 2: get access to the data under the guys that it

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Speaker 2: helps them improve the product. But once it's shared with China,

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Speaker 2: of course, now you can assume that it's going to

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Speaker 2: be shared with the Chinese state.

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Speaker 1: You use a term that the Chinese communists see video

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Speaker 1: games as national cultural exports. Again, this whole notion of

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Speaker 1: non kinetic warfare competition by non military means the idea

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Speaker 1: that you would create video games is a national cultural export,

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Speaker 1: I think is fascinating. Of course, then it's the opposite

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Speaker 1: of the American left. You couldn't today create an American game.

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Speaker 1: Say about George Washington, as a noble leader because the

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Speaker 1: American left would go crazy.

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Speaker 2: That's right. You know, there is a certain sense that

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Speaker 2: you have to respect that China is proudly pushing faith

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Speaker 2: in their system and their belief system. The problem is,

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Speaker 2: of course, we know how dangerous and how many people

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Speaker 2: have suffered under that system, but you have to give

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Speaker 2: them credit. They're confident about it, they push it, they

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Speaker 2: demand it, And the problem is is that people in

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Speaker 2: our entertainment industry, whether it's the video game industry or Hollywood,

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Speaker 2: are prepared to pay along because they're getting access to capital,

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Speaker 2: they're getting access to the Chinese market oftentimes, and it

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Speaker 2: really does put us at a disadvantage. President g himself

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Speaker 2: has emphasized repeatedly how important these cultural products are and

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Speaker 2: how they will serve to sort of disconnect young people

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Speaker 2: in the West from their historical knowledge of their own

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Speaker 2: country and disconnect them from respect or embracing the national

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Speaker 2: symbols that young people have in the West. And all

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Speaker 2: you have to do is look at where the tide

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Speaker 2: is turning culturally in the United States and believe that

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Speaker 2: a they're very pleased with that, and b that their

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Speaker 2: cultural export efforts are working quite well, you.

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Speaker 1: Point out in your book that of the one hundred

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Speaker 1: highest grossing movies released between twenty fourteen and eighteen forty

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Speaker 1: one had Chinese investors. But in addition, in order to

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Speaker 1: get access to the Chinese market, you have to make

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Speaker 1: sure your movie is approvable. I think in the second

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Speaker 1: version of Top Gun they actually had to take off

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Speaker 1: a Taiwanese flag those on an air force jacket because

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Speaker 1: it offended the Chinese Communists.

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Speaker 2: Yes they did, and you can even look at children's programming.

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Speaker 2: So Steven Spielberg and Jeffrey Katzenberg with Amblin Entertainment and

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Speaker 2: DreamWorks struck a deal with the Chinese for investments and

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Speaker 2: access to the Chinese market. And all you have to

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Speaker 2: do is look at the progression of the animated movies

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Speaker 2: that have been made. Kung Fu Panda one to two

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Speaker 2: and three. The first two were American funded, and the

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Speaker 2: themes of those films were good. It was about elevating

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Speaker 2: yourself as an individual by embracing character and hard work

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Speaker 2: and improving yourself and having confidence and belief in yourself.

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Speaker 2: Really good themes for young people to hear. When you

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Speaker 2: get to Kung Fu Panda three, which is partly financed

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Speaker 2: by China, which gives them veto power over the script.

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Speaker 2: That theme changes entirely Kung Fu Panda three. Essentially there's

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Speaker 2: a people's revolt. It's no longer focused on the panda

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Speaker 2: trying to improve himself, make himself better so he can

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Speaker 2: help other people. Kung Fu Panda three is about a

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Speaker 2: people's revolt against the overlords. And that is I think

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Speaker 2: because of the source of this funding. And you see

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Speaker 2: this theme over and over again in some of the

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Speaker 2: Transformer movies, where it's China that comes to the rest.

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Speaker 2: It's the Chinese officials that are well motivated in earnest

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Speaker 2: and the American officials that are corrupt and self serving.

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Speaker 2: That theme is repeated over and over again. And you know,

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Speaker 2: you could say, well, it's not a big deal. I

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Speaker 2: think it's a big deal because it shapes the way

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Speaker 2: that people, especially young people, see their own culture, see

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Speaker 2: their own country, and see their own leaders. And if

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Speaker 2: they are being fed a diet which is always embracing

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Speaker 2: and upholding the CCP and criticizing America, that is absolutely

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Speaker 2: going to have a powerful cultural effect. And I think

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Speaker 2: we're already starting to see that.

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Speaker 1: In Blood Money you right. I think this is a

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Speaker 1: very sobering quote that I wish every member of Congress understood.

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Speaker 1: Many people fear that a war with China may be coming,

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Speaker 1: but the war is already here. Now what war are

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Speaker 1: you describing.

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Speaker 2: I'm describing the disintegration warfare that's taking place. And it's

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Speaker 2: not just in the realm of these cultural products. It

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Speaker 2: actually includes the dying and the death of Americans. And

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Speaker 2: I believe that China is responsible for those. If you

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Speaker 2: look at fentanyl, for example, much of the focuses on

402
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Speaker 2: the Mexican drug cartels. I think I explain clearly the

403
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Speaker 2: fact that the drug cartels are really the junior partners here.

404
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Speaker 2: This is a Chinese operation from head to tail. They

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Speaker 2: are the senior partners. It's not just that they provide

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Speaker 2: the precursors that come from China. They provide all the infrastructure.

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Speaker 2: There are two thousand Chinese nationals just south of the

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Speaker 2: US border in Mexico that help the cartels turn these

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Speaker 2: precursors into fentanyl. When these drug cartels produce the pills

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Speaker 2: that are poisoning people that look like a vicodin or

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Speaker 2: look like an adderall that are laced with fentanyl. Those

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Speaker 2: pill presses came from China, and according to our Department

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Speaker 2: of Homeland Security, China sells those to the drug cartels

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Speaker 2: at cost. This is not a price gouging operation. The

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Speaker 2: communication devices that the cartels use to evade US law enforcement,

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Speaker 2: they use Chinese apps and Chinese communication devices because they

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Speaker 2: know that Beijing will not share those with US law enforcement.

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Speaker 2: And then the final element of it, which is the

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Speaker 2: money laundering. These drug cartels for so long launder their

420
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Speaker 2: money in Latin American banks. Today, in the era of fentanyl,

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Speaker 2: they launder their money in Chinese state owned banks, and

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Speaker 2: according to our government, they often use Chinese students in

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Speaker 2: the United States on education visas to do the laundering

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Speaker 2: for them. So this is a Chinese operation. The drug

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Speaker 2: cartels are a junior partner, and this is an example

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Speaker 2: of the kind of war that we are already in.

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Speaker 2: This is now the leading cause of death people under

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Speaker 2: the age of forty five in the country.

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Speaker 1: You also point out that the triads, which are the

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Speaker 1: historic Chinese organized crime systems, actually in nineteen eighty two

431
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Speaker 1: made an agreement with the Chinese Communist Party and in

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Speaker 1: effect the triads are a major component of trying to

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Speaker 1: get drugs in the United States and trying to undermine

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Speaker 1: American culture.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so is a bargain struck by Deng Chao Ping

436
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 2: and some of the Triad leaders in nineteen eighty two,

437
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 2: Deng Chaoping said, as long as you are patriotic by

438
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 2: what he means is support the CCP, we will let

439
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 2: you operate freely in the West. Just don't sell your

440
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 2: drugs in China and be loyal to the CCP. And

441
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 2: so that bargain was struck. And if you look at

442
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 2: President Ji today, he is the personification of that his

443
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 2: development politically. The area that he served the longest time

444
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 2: in the CCP apparatus was in Fujian Province, and Fujian

445
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:03,959
Speaker 2: Province is the epicenter of Chinese organized crime activity. And

446
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 2: when he was there, there were numerous organized crime figures

447
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 2: that were wanted by US federal authorities for crimes like

448
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 2: murder for hire, drug distribution, etc. Who fled to Fujian Province,

449
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 2: where then Ji Jingping gave them protection and became friends

450
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 2: with them. In fact, the Fujian Province Airport, believe it

451
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 2: or not, was privatized and owned by these organized crime syndicates.

452
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 2: Center President Gi So they see these organized crime elements

453
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,199
Speaker 2: as a powerful tool to advance their agenda. And of

454
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 2: course the triads like this relationship because China gives them

455
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 2: now a safe base of operation.

456
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: Why is it so hard for the American government to

457
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,959
Speaker 1: recognize that? You make the point that in late twenty

458
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: twenty two, the Biden administration names twenty two countries as

459
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: transit points for drugs or producers of drugs, but does

460
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 1: enlist China.

461
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, what does all of this tell you? Well, I

462
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 2: think there's a couple of things that work here, nude.

463
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 2: I think part of it is you've got a larger

464
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 2: bureaucracy that realizes once you sort of finger China as

465
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 2: being involved in this drug trade at the State Department,

466
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 2: their job suddenly becomes a lot harder. So I think

467
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 2: you have just some bureaucratic inertia. But more specifically to

468
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 2: the Biden administration, let's be clear what the exact financial

469
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 2: ties are here. You and I have talked about before

470
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 2: our research about the Biden's receiving millions of dollars from China.

471
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 2: Consider the fact that in twenty seventeen, the Biden family

472
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 2: received and they don't dispute this they received a five

473
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 2: million dollar interest free forgivable loan that they've never paid

474
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 2: back from a Chinese businessman who was business partners with

475
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 2: a gentleman named Jean an Lo who also goes by

476
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 2: the name White Wolf, who's the head of a criminal

477
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 2: gang UBG that set up the Sinaloa cartel and made

478
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 2: them the kings of Fentanyl. Everybody acknowledges this is the

479
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 2: criminal gang that set them up. So what that means

480
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 2: is you have basically one degree of separation between the

481
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 2: Biden family and these criminal gangs. It's in the form

482
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 2: of this businessman who loaned them five million dollars in

483
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen. So when you ask yourself, does Joe Biden

484
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 2: want to have a conversation does he want to call

485
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 2: out the Chinese criminal gangs involved in this activity? I

486
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 2: don't think he does, and I think a big part

487
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 2: of the reason is because of these financial entanglements that

488
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 2: exist between him, his family and these Chinese gangs.

489
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: To what extent do the billionaires who made huge profits

490
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: in China form an impediment to us coming to grips

491
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: with how deep the Chinese threat is, That's.

492
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 2: A huge problem because they recognize and see China does

493
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 2: they see Silicon Valley in Wall Street as their most

494
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 2: effective lobbyists in the world. They don't need to lobby themselves.

495
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 2: And all you have to do is go back and

496
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 2: look at the Trump administration when they imposed trade tariffs

497
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 2: on China. Whether one agrees with that approach or not,

498
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter, because what matters is what happened next.

499
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 2: China didn't go to Washington, d C. In protest. They

500
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 2: went to Wall Street, and they went to Silicon Valley,

501
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 2: and they went to those big powerful firms and said, look,

502
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 2: you want access to our market, you need to go

503
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 2: fix this. So you had Wall Street titans, and you

504
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 2: had big tech titans rushing to Washington, d C. Meeting

505
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,479
Speaker 2: with cabinet officials in the Trump administration trying to get

506
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 2: these tariffs removed. It's an enormous impediment. These companies are

507
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 2: thinking short term. They think this is the same China

508
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 2: as it was under Hu Jintao. It's not. It's a

509
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 2: very different China. This is President G's China, and his

510
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 2: views of these corporations and markets is very, very different

511
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 2: than any Chinese li that they've had really since deng

512
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 2: Chaoping and they need to wise up to it. But

513
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 2: right now they are the most useful tool for getting

514
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 2: Beijing's agenda advanced in the United States and Washington DC.

515
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: So given that pattern, do you fully expect them to

516
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: pile on to try to stop the Senate from passing

517
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: the TikTok bill?

518
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 2: Yes? I do. I think so. Carlisle Group, for example,

519
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 2: is a part owner of by Dance, they will certainly push.

520
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 2: But I think there are other some of the big

521
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 2: investment houses that do huge business in China. They are

522
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 2: going to be leveraged by the Chinese government to lobby

523
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 2: on this as well. And they're going to argue on

524
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 2: good old free market capitalist grounds that the state should

525
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 2: not be allowed to seize assets and force the sale

526
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 2: to someone else. Never mind that happens in China all

527
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 2: the time, but they're going to try to manipulate it

528
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 2: in this way. I do think that people are sort

529
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 2: of they're becoming more aware that this is the methodology.

530
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 2: But yes, there's going to be a heavy, a lobbing

531
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 2: push in the Senate to kill this bill.

532
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: I think the very title of your book, blood Money,

533
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: Why the powerful turn a blind eye while China kills

534
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: Americans that by itself should tell every American to focus

535
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: on the Senate and get the Senate to understand this

536
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: is about American national survival and that we have to

537
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: have a dramatically tougher and more coherent approach to China.

538
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: I think your book is a major contribution to helping

539
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: us understand that we are engaged basically in total societal

540
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: warfare with a Chinese dictatorship which seeks at every level

541
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: to undermine and destroy us, and that we have better

542
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: be developing national strategies that are equally sophisticated and, given

543
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: the scale of our capabilities, dramatically more powerful once we're engaged.

544
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: But Peter, I can't tell you how important I think

545
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: your new book is. It is the most important contribution

546
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: you've made in a lifetime of doing extraordinary research, and

547
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: I think it is going to have a very very

548
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: big impact on the American people and on the history

549
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: of this country. So Blood Money is available now on

550
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: Amazon and in bookstores everywhere, and I want to really

551
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: thank you for joining me to talk about a topic

552
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: where you are a genuine heroic pioneer.

553
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much, Nude. It's always great to

554
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 2: join you. I always enjoyed the stimulating conversation. Thanks for

555
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 2: having me.

556
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest Peter Schweitzer. You can get

557
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: a link to buy his new book Blood Money on

558
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: our show page at newsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced

559
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: by Gaglish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is

560
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: Guarnsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for

561
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: the show was created by Steve Fenley. Special thanks to

562
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: the team at gingerstree sixty. If you've been enjoying Nutsworld,

563
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate

564
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: us with five stars and give us a review so

565
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners

566
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: of neut World consign up for my three free weekly

567
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: columns at gingristhree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm new Gingrich.

568
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 1: This is neuts World.