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Speaker 1: This is Master's in Business with very Rid Holds on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: This week on the podcast What Can I Say? Ramat

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Speaker 2: Safety is a fascinating guy with really an amazing and

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Speaker 2: fascinating career. Starting out studying psychology and a little bit

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Speaker 2: of finance at Stanford, he started a blog which eventually

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Speaker 2: became a podcast and a book, and is now a

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Speaker 2: Netflix series. Depending on the platform, it's either I Will

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Speaker 2: Teach You to Be Rich the book or the Netflix

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Speaker 2: show How to Get Rich, And it's not rich in

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Speaker 2: terms of how to pile up money, but rather how

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Speaker 2: to live a rich life by treating money as a

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Speaker 2: tool to do the things that you want to do.

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Speaker 2: It's one part financial freedom, one part prioritization of your life,

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Speaker 2: and one part less stress and worries about financial matters.

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Speaker 2: It's really a very thoughtful and intelligent approach to thinking

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Speaker 2: about spending and I found the conversation to be really interesting.

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Speaker 2: I've chatted with Rami before. I think he's really a

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Speaker 2: fascinating guy, and I'm glad we finally managed to get

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Speaker 2: him into the studio for a podcast. The show on

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Speaker 2: Netflix is really quite interesting and his just whole approach

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Speaker 2: is intelligent and joyful and really very pleasant. As opposed

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Speaker 2: to the usual spending skolds who make money like a

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Speaker 2: drudgery and a bore. He's not like that at all,

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Speaker 2: which probably accounts for a lot of his success. He

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Speaker 2: makes what is otherwise a potentially challenging subject very interesting.

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Speaker 2: I found this conversation to be delightful, and I think

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Speaker 2: you will also, so, with no further ado, my sit

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Speaker 2: down with Rami Seti teaching you how.

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Speaker 1: To live a rich life. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: Oh good seeing you again. Good to have you. So,

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Speaker 2: before we get into the Netflix series. In the book,

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Speaker 2: let's talk a little bit about your background. You get

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Speaker 2: a scholarship in high school, you put it in the

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Speaker 2: stock market and immediately lose half.

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Speaker 1: How do you lose half of your money? Well, that

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Speaker 1: quickly everybody thought they were a genius, including me in

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine, two thousand. Kind of sounds familiar to

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Speaker 1: all of our crypto friends from the last few years.

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Speaker 1: So I was sitting there reading Industry Standard, remember that

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Speaker 1: magazine and all these this media about how the stock

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Speaker 1: market was going up fifteen percent a week.

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Speaker 2: So, however, trees grow to the sky.

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Speaker 1: Yeah always, And so I said, cool, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: get in on this. And I took the first scholarship

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Speaker 1: check which they sent to me. That's usually not how

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Speaker 1: it works. They usually send it to the school, right,

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Speaker 1: And you know, for a seventeen year old kid, that's

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Speaker 1: a lot of money. I put in the stock market

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Speaker 1: and I lost half of it within weeks, And in retrospect,

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Speaker 1: that was probably one of the best lessons I ever heard.

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Speaker 2: You know, if you step into it, because so you know,

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Speaker 2: and the bells and lights go off and you win money,

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Speaker 2: you're screwed the seo life.

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Speaker 1: Because you think you're a genius. So you know, how

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Speaker 1: hard is it? So then I end up going to college.

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Speaker 1: I had other scholarships that paid my way through, which

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Speaker 1: was very fortunate, and I was learning about money, reading

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Speaker 1: all the books, all the magazines, watching the shows, and

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Speaker 1: I was also studying social psychology, so studying human behavior, persuasion,

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Speaker 1: and I was really It reminded me of that book

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Speaker 1: The Emperor Has No Clothes, because the advice that we

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Speaker 1: all get about money for the last thirty plus years

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Speaker 1: makes no sense if you understand psychology. And that's when

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Speaker 1: I started to develop my own philosophy and.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit about that academic study. Stanford

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Speaker 2: be a information and society with a minor in psychology

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Speaker 2: a master's in social psychology and interpersonal processes. It sounds

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Speaker 2: like you knew exactly what you wanted to do from

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Speaker 2: a fairly early period in your life.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm not so sure. I think you remember that

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Speaker 1: famous Steve Jobs commencement address speech. Surely that was my

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Speaker 1: graduation out. Yeah. So he said you often can't tell

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Speaker 1: where you're going until you look backwards and you connect

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Speaker 1: the dots. Makes sense, and I found that to be

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Speaker 1: profoundly true for me. When I was in college, I

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Speaker 1: was super interested in why we do the things we do.

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Speaker 1: For example, why do we all talk about you know,

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Speaker 1: I should probably go to the gym a little bit more,

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Speaker 1: but we don't. I find that profoundly interesting because we

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Speaker 1: sometimes will say it's about money, it's about time, but

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Speaker 1: deep down there are deeper reasons. And so being at

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Speaker 1: Stanford and being able to study science, technology and society

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Speaker 1: and psychology and sociology that really allowed me to understand

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Speaker 1: more of why we do what we do.

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Speaker 2: H really interesting. I'm trying to remember the date. I

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Speaker 2: think it's January nineteenth is when the average New Year's

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Speaker 2: resolution has been broken.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's some new you know, it's interesting, there's some

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Speaker 1: nuance I think to New Year's resolutions. I used to

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Speaker 1: be kind of like scornful. Ah, you know, the gym

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Speaker 1: piles up and then it empties out. Now I think

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Speaker 1: I'll take any opportunity where people are motivated to change.

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Speaker 1: And if it is a twenty year high school reunion,

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Speaker 1: if it's January first, doesn't matter. Sure, will most people

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Speaker 1: flush out, probably, But there's a few who will make

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Speaker 1: it meaningful for them and commit to it. And for me,

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Speaker 1: that's a win.

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Speaker 2: So I'm skipping ahead a little bit. But you write

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Speaker 2: a lot about instead of focusing on goals, focusing on processes.

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Speaker 2: Clearly psychology helps there too. It's easy to make a

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Speaker 2: small change in how you do things as opposed to

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Speaker 2: this immense Hey, I really want to be jacked from

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Speaker 2: my twentieth reunion.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the most interesting emails I got from

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Speaker 1: my newsletter subscribers was a woman who wrote me and said,

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Speaker 1: you know, you talk about going for a run or

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Speaker 1: going to the gym, and she goes, I have told

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Speaker 1: myself that I want to go for a run five

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Speaker 1: times a week for years, and I never do it.

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Speaker 1: And I just wrote back to her and I said,

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Speaker 1: for a while, why don't you go once a week?

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Speaker 1: And her response was so fascinating. She said, why would

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Speaker 1: I do that? That will make no difference. I find

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Speaker 1: that extremely fascinating. She would rather Yeah, she would rather

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Speaker 1: dream about going five times a week than actually go

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Speaker 1: once a week. And so many of us do this

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Speaker 1: with our money. We'd rather dream about having ten million

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Speaker 1: than start investing one hundred dollars a week.

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Speaker 2: Perfect is the enemy of the good, Yeah, isn't it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's really fascinating. So you start the blog in two

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Speaker 2: thousand and four, more or less while I'm in college.

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Speaker 2: You were, You were an early adopter, as was I.

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Speaker 2: How did that evolve into a book?

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Speaker 1: The blog was not some mastered genius stroke. It was

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Speaker 1: my frustration, because come on, tell the truth.

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Speaker 2: You're like, I'm gonna blog for twenty years.

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Speaker 1: Netflix? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Netflix, which doesn't then it

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Speaker 1: was just CVD by mail. Yeah, so okay. I was

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Speaker 1: trying to teach my friends in college about personal finance.

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Speaker 1: We'd be sitting around the dining halls. Someone be complaining

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Speaker 1: about their fourth overdraft fee, and I would go, hey,

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Speaker 1: you should just come. I have this one hour presentation

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Speaker 1: I do on money. And they were like, this is

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Speaker 1: in college you would do, no kid, yeah, and so

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Speaker 1: they would go, yeah, that sounds really cool and they

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Speaker 1: would never show up. Another fascinating peculiarity of human behavior

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Speaker 1: when it comes to money events. Most people hate them

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Speaker 1: because when they physically go, they feel bad. And the

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Speaker 1: older you get, the worse you feel because you feel

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Speaker 1: I should have learned this earlier. My friends were twenty

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Speaker 1: years old and they already felt like they were behind.

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Speaker 1: Imagine a forty five fifty five year old at a

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Speaker 1: four oh one case summer are they don't want to go.

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Speaker 1: So I did this for a year and a half. Nobody,

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Speaker 1: virtually nobody came, like ten people, and I finally said

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Speaker 1: I was a cocky college kid. I go, you know

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Speaker 1: what the world needs to hear what I know? But

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Speaker 1: they were certainly not listening. So I started a blog.

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Speaker 1: I said, maybe these lazy college kids will read it

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Speaker 1: from their dorm and that actually turned out to be

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Speaker 1: exactly right.

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Speaker 2: So was there ever an actual job out of Stanford

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Speaker 2: or did the blog lead to tell us about your

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Speaker 2: first game.

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Speaker 1: So I had some internships in college, and then when

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Speaker 1: I graduated, I accepted an offer from Google. Actually uh huh,

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Speaker 1: and they said you should take some time, you know,

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Speaker 1: you've been in school for a long time. I said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I planned to. I'll be talking to you guys in

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Speaker 1: three months. So I took the summer off. One of

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Speaker 1: my buddies said, hey, I'm starting this thing. Why don't

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Speaker 1: you start it with me. So I started this little

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Speaker 1: collaboration company with my friend. We were co founders, and

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Speaker 1: it sort of blew up that summer and I ended

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Speaker 1: up saying to Google, really appreciate you guys, but I

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Speaker 1: think I'm gonna stick with this. And I was at

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Speaker 1: that company, which was an online collaboration company, for several

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Speaker 1: years till about nine. Meanwhile, I was doing my blog

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Speaker 1: on the side and it was just getting bigger and bigger.

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Speaker 1: Whatever happened with the collab company, it's still around. It's

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Speaker 1: still around. There was no big exit. No, there was

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Speaker 1: no exit. We were not here, you know, at Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: It was sort of earlier than Google Docs, and it

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Speaker 1: was a wiki. Now it's sort of pivoted into B to.

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Speaker 2: B kind of interesting. So you're working on the blogs,

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Speaker 2: and so for somewhere along the lines, there's a self

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Speaker 2: published ebook or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I around six oh seven, I said, I want

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Speaker 1: to see if anybody on the internet will actually pay

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Speaker 1: for anything. I had not made a cent from the blog,

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Speaker 1: it was just me doing it as a hobby. So

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Speaker 1: I created this ebook and I decided to sell it

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Speaker 1: for four dollars and ninety five cents. And I was

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Speaker 1: very terrified. It's like any artist who's ever sold something validation, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and like, what is the world going to think. I

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Speaker 1: had such low confidence that I didn't even set up

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Speaker 1: a distribution system. I just said, when the receipt comes

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Speaker 1: in through PayPal, I'll manually attach it to an email,

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Speaker 1: because I thought fifty people would buy it. Two interesting

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Speaker 1: things happened. First, I was terrified of people calling me

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Speaker 1: a sellout, because back then, to me, selling something was

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Speaker 1: sort of the antithesis of creating value. And I actually

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Speaker 1: did get called. I had people who had been reading

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Speaker 1: me for free for years who turned and they said, oh,

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Speaker 1: so it's I will teach re meat to be rich,

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Speaker 1: and that that really hurt. When I think back to

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Speaker 1: some of the most painful moments over a twenty year career.

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Speaker 1: That is definitely one of it.

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Speaker 2: Because everything in the world is free. You should work

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Speaker 2: for free. Media, subscription should be free. Nobody should ever

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Speaker 2: pay for.

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Speaker 1: Any correct and if you do, you're you're trying to

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Speaker 1: get one over me. Yeah, yourself.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you something funny. And people, you know, we

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Speaker 2: never quite had that accusation. But for the better part

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Speaker 2: of fifteen years before I started accepting capital, it was, Hey,

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Speaker 2: everybody's telling you how to manage your assets the wrong way.

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Speaker 2: Here you could do it yourself. Here's the right way

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Speaker 2: to do it. You could do it. It takes a

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Speaker 2: little discipline, a little time, and very little money. Manage

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Speaker 2: it yourself. And to my chagrin, people started saying, hey,

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Speaker 2: I like the way you think, but I don't have

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Speaker 2: time for this.

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Speaker 1: You take my money.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, don't you understand this is all about

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Speaker 2: you can do it yourself.

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Speaker 1: I'm busy.

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Speaker 2: You do it all right, Yeah, and that's how a

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Speaker 2: business was born. But I don't look at that as

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Speaker 2: selling out. I don't look at what you did as

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Speaker 2: selling out. Five dollars is not gonna kill him exactly.

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Speaker 1: And you know, if they didn't like it. I refunded him.

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Speaker 1: That was what was fascinting.

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Speaker 2: Money back guarantee on the WOW.

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Speaker 1: And then the second thing that was fascinating to me

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Speaker 1: was I had a small cadre of very loud, vocal

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Speaker 1: people who were angry. But that's true on every website exactly.

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Speaker 1: But the people who bought I could see their statistics.

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Speaker 1: Their open rates on my emails were quadruple the rate

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Speaker 1: of everybody else. They emailed me saying, hey, this was great.

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Speaker 1: When are you creating the next thing. I sat there

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Speaker 1: looking at the data, looking at the emails, and I go,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, there's something qualitatively different about buyers and

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Speaker 1: non buyers. And that led to the next three or

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Speaker 1: four years of learning how to sell, how to create value,

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Speaker 1: and not worry about selling out, but do it in

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Speaker 1: a very ethical way, do it my way.

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Speaker 2: And did the ebook eventually lead to I will teach

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Speaker 2: you to be.

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Speaker 1: Rich the book? Yeah, I think I became more comfortable.

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Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest mistakes people make when

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Speaker 1: thinking about writing a book is doing it too early.

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Speaker 1: I waited until I had my philosophy dialed in. I

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Speaker 1: treated my blog like an experimental lab so I tested

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Speaker 1: it with different incomes, different industries, different geographies. By the

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Speaker 1: time I wrote it, I knew what I was going

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Speaker 1: to say, and so that came out in March nine,

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Speaker 1: which is time. Yeah, that happens to be the bottom front.

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Speaker 1: But I remember going around here we are in Manhattan.

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Speaker 1: I remember going on book tour and this book came out,

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Speaker 1: and a few months before my publishers had sort of

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Speaker 1: sent me a note, are you sure that this information

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Speaker 1: is still relevant because of what's going on? Go good

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Speaker 1: information has nothing to do at the time. If anything,

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Speaker 1: it's even more relevant because now low cost, long term

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Speaker 1: investing makes sense, et cetera, et cetera. So I go

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Speaker 1: on book tour to thirteen cities, and in every city,

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting in the green room waiting for a news

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Speaker 1: director to come out, and they go, we're not going

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Speaker 1: to talk about investing today. I go, what, and they go,

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Speaker 1: there's ten percent unemployment. People just want to know how

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Speaker 1: to get by. And I looked at them and I

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Speaker 1: thought to myself, we'll talk about that. There's definitely some

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Speaker 1: ways to save money, but that also means the majority

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Speaker 1: of people are employed, and everybody knows that at some point,

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Speaker 1: the market will come back, and they want to position themselves.

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Speaker 1: So they just looked at me like I was an alien.

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Speaker 1: I looked at them like, I don't really care what

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Speaker 1: you say. I'm going on air. I'm gonna say what

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Speaker 1: I want. And I think that has been true since

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Speaker 1: two thousand and nine until now. Every time I do media,

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Speaker 1: the predominant question is times are tough, things are crazy,

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Speaker 1: how do we get by? And I go, I simply

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Speaker 1: don't accept the premise anymore. I go, wait a minute.

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Speaker 1: First of all, in certain areas things are better than ever. Second,

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Speaker 1: regardless of what we're talking about here, there are ways

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Speaker 1: to get ahead and actually make money fun. So I'm

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Speaker 1: just not going to indulge the idea that money has

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Speaker 1: to be purely a nuisance, purely an annoyance. No, let's

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Speaker 1: start off by talking about how much he can be

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Speaker 1: amazing and joyful and create a rich life. Really love that.

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Speaker 2: And I have to start out with the confession. When

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Speaker 2: this book first came out, I hated the title. I

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Speaker 2: thought it was just another get rich quick scheme, some

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Speaker 2: sort of nonsense. And it was one of the guys

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Speaker 2: I worked with that said, no, no, that's not what

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Speaker 2: this book is about you got to read it. So

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Speaker 2: I started thumbing through it, and I'm like, oh, this

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Speaker 2: is not about getting rich. This is about figuring out

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Speaker 2: what money as a tool can do for you and

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Speaker 2: how to use it properly. It's a very different headspace

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Speaker 2: than most of the here's how to invest in and

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Speaker 2: get rich. What led you to that sort of approach

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Speaker 2: and that title.

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Speaker 1: Well, I was sober when I chose that title. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I want to admit I was a college kid and

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Speaker 1: I named my website I will teach you to be Rich.

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Speaker 1: I always have loved provocative names. I do love being

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Speaker 1: ultra clear about what I'm going to promise. I have

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Speaker 1: these digital programs. One of them is find your Dream Job.

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Speaker 1: It's very clear what you're gonna get. I like that.

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Speaker 1: But I will say that I'm not offended by what

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Speaker 1: you said, because if you go and Reddit, there are

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Speaker 1: people who talk about the book. I feel very fortunate

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Speaker 1: that people spread the word a lot, and they will

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Speaker 1: almost always introduce it in the exact same way. They'll

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Speaker 1: go listen ignore the time they go this book. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like a scam, but I will teach you be

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Speaker 1: rich is actually really good and that's fine with me

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Speaker 1: when you hear that title. I love a big promise,

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Speaker 1: but what I love even more is over delivering on it.

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Speaker 1: So it's not just about getting rich, It's actually about

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Speaker 1: being rich. And being rich means not it means how

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Speaker 1: to earn money. It means how to talk about money,

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Speaker 1: and even how to spend money. All of those things,

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Speaker 1: including managing money, are part of a rich life.

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Speaker 2: So let's delve deeper into the concept of a rich life.

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Speaker 2: I love this quote, A rich life has lived outside

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Speaker 2: the spreadsheet.

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Speaker 1: Explain that, Well, there's too many nerds, probably half the

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Speaker 1: people listening to this, who love their spreadsheets. Hey, guys,

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Speaker 1: you want to do an amortization table, You want to

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Speaker 1: do a Mondy Carlo analysis, and they do that for

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Speaker 1: thirty five years, tweaking numbers. I go, you won, You

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Speaker 1: won the game. It's fine. Turn the page on your

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Speaker 1: life and go to the next chapter. Once you have

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Speaker 1: your asset allocation dialed in, your automatic contributions dialed in,

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Speaker 1: all the basics, then you can move on. And part

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Speaker 1: of that involves designing your rich life. Let's talk about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I really want to get into that, because when

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Speaker 2: we talk about the show that really is a focus,

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Speaker 2: and you really kind of rock some people back on

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Speaker 2: their heels and make them address things they don't want

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Speaker 2: to address.

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming that.

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Speaker 2: The blog and the podcast led to a lot of

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Speaker 2: those interactions that ended up in the book.

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Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Yes, the blog gave me a lot

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Speaker 1: of raw material because I had a chance to talk

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Speaker 1: to people at different incomes, et cetera, you know, a

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Speaker 1: rich life. Most people expect a money book to start

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Speaker 1: with a chapter on budgets virtually every money book, and

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Speaker 1: that is, in my opinion, a total turn off. Buzzkill. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like you, Okay, some average person opens up a book,

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Speaker 1: they're already feeling nervous, judge. They open up the first chapter,

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Speaker 1: the author says, Okay, here's what we're gonna do. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna get a budget. Everybody hates the word budget. I

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Speaker 1: hate budgets myself. I don't keep one. And now you're

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Speaker 1: gonna go through the last twelve months of spending, which

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Speaker 1: are not conveniently found anywhere. You know you did it wrong,

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Speaker 1: but I want you to go and spend the next

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Speaker 1: twenty hours writing this stuff down just so you can

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Speaker 1: be judged. It's like, no thanks. I'm gonna put this

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Speaker 1: right back on the shelf. So that is a lack

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Speaker 1: of understanding psychology. What I did with the book was

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Speaker 1: to understand where do people want to start. Let's get

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Speaker 1: him a quick win number one. Everybody has credit cards,

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Speaker 1: everybody misunderstands how to use them, and there are actually

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Speaker 1: some secret perks that people have no idea about. Let's

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Speaker 1: get you a quick win. You got a late fee.

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Speaker 1: Read these words off the page. In fact, here's the

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Speaker 1: phone number you call and you will get your thirty

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Speaker 1: seven dollars fee waved. People do that, they don't believe it,

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Speaker 1: and they do it. They go, oh my god, it worked,

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Speaker 1: and like that they realize they're on board. I can

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Speaker 1: take control of my money, not let every financial company

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Speaker 1: control me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was genuinely shocked. And again the Netflix series

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Speaker 2: is in my head. People have eighteen credit cards, twenty

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Speaker 2: who has twenty twenty? Big account saving accounts. It's just

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Speaker 2: what you're paying in fees seems to be exorbitant.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of people who watch that show How

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Speaker 1: to Get Rich on Netflix. They told me, like I

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Speaker 1: had no idea how little people know about money. But

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Speaker 1: to me, I've been talking to everyday people for the

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Speaker 1: last twenty years. So it doesn't phaze me to have

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Speaker 1: twenty savings accounts to not know how much you're spending

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Speaker 1: on fees. Of course you don't. That's like asking me, REMI,

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Speaker 1: do you have a carburetor in your car? I got

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Speaker 1: What the hell's a carburetor? I don't know. I turned

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Speaker 1: the key. It works. That's my understanding.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk about the money dial way, the concept

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Speaker 2: of that com and how do people actually use your money.

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Speaker 1: When I talk about a rich life, people like the term.

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Speaker 1: They go rich life, what is that? So you know, first,

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Speaker 1: let's just start with that. A rich life can be

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Speaker 1: traveling two months a year. A rich life can be

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Speaker 1: wearing a beautiful cashmere coat. It could be picking up

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Speaker 1: your kids from school every afternoon. Your rich life is yours.

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Speaker 1: And so people they buy into that, They go, oh wow, it's.

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Speaker 2: Not just materialism, it's not just shiny things. It sounds

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Speaker 2: like it's choices and freedom and much less worry.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but it's being very very specific about it. So

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Speaker 1: freedom is When I ask people what is your rich life,

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Speaker 1: ninety percent of people say the same answer to me.

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Speaker 1: Across the world. They go I want to do what

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Speaker 1: I want when I want. They really think that they're clever.

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Speaker 1: I go, wow, that's so interesting. I never heard that before.

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Speaker 1: And then I go, I go, so what do you want?

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Speaker 1: And they just stare at me because that is how

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Speaker 1: far most of us have thought. And they'll say something

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Speaker 1: like travel. I go, okay, where they go Europe? I

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Speaker 1: go where. I want to know what airline seat you're

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Speaker 1: going to sit in. I want to know where you're

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Speaker 1: going to stay, what you're going to eat, I want

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Speaker 1: to know who's going with you for how long. That's

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Speaker 1: a vivid and specific vision of a rich life. So

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Speaker 1: an easy way to do this for everybody listening is,

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Speaker 1: let's do this quick exercise together. The first question I

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Speaker 1: have for you, Barry, is what do you love spending

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Speaker 1: money on?

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Speaker 2: Dining, entertainment, things like that.

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Speaker 1: Fantastic dining is actually the number one response money dial,

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Speaker 1: or it's what I call it money dial. Yeah. Number

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Speaker 1: one is eating, eating out or dining. Number two is travel.

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Speaker 1: Number three is health and wellness. Number four is my

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Speaker 1: money dial convenience, and then there's a variety of others.

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Speaker 1: So the second question is, Barry, if you could quadruple

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Speaker 1: the amount you spend on dining, what would it look

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Speaker 1: and feel like for you? That would be a terrifying number.

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Speaker 1: Tell me.

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Speaker 2: So, my wife and I also really like cooking, so

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Speaker 2: we cook at home.

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Speaker 1: Just redid a kitchen. We have this lovely chef's kitchen.

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Speaker 2: So I try and balance having fun and you know,

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Speaker 2: playing some music, cracking a bottle of wine and working

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Speaker 2: on a recipe. That's a lot of fun as is.

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Speaker 2: You know, we just had an insane lunch at the

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Speaker 2: Restoration Hardware.

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Speaker 1: Oh I love that's place.

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Speaker 2: Just exorbitant, but you know as an occasion, and like,

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Speaker 2: I don't even think about it, Just let's order what

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Speaker 2: we want, not even think twice.

435
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 1: So you are in an unusual position because you, I'm

436
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 1: guessing you're not really price sensitive about eating out.

437
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,360
Speaker 2: So you and I have previously discussed pain points in spending.

438
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,440
Speaker 2: Like for me, it's closed because everything is an expensive

439
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 2: bib eventually. And look, I'm wearing nice I told Barry.

440
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 2: My wife's a personal stylist. I said, Barry, let's do this.

441
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:47,439
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm wearing nice clothes today.

442
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 2: But I can rationalize dropping a couple hundred bucks on

443
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 2: a meal without even thinking twice.

444
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 1: About it.

445
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,680
Speaker 2: But you walk into certain stores eight hundred bucks for

446
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 2: a pair of shoes, four hundred bucks for shirt. It's

447
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,919
Speaker 2: a little more challenging because I'm hard on everything, and

448
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 2: I know that the shirt will eventually have spaghetti stains

449
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,680
Speaker 2: on it, and the sneakers, the shoes will be destroyed.

450
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 2: But that's my pain point. It's not it's not cars,

451
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 2: it's not watches, it's not food.

452
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's closed. So people listening, they're saying, Okay, I eat,

453
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 1: I like to eat out, or I like to travel.

454
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:20,919
Speaker 1: And the second question, when I ask, what would it

455
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,959
Speaker 1: look like if you could quadruple you're spending, people smile

456
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 1: because they go, wow, they never thought of it. Most people,

457
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 1: when it comes to food, they give me the same answer.

458
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:30,920
Speaker 1: They go, wow, I'd probably have to watch what I

459
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:32,640
Speaker 1: eat because I'd be eating out four times a week.

460
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: And I go, it's not.

461
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 2: Bigger portions, it's going to nicer places.

462
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 1: That's right. So they most of us think linearly, I go,

463
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 1: what are you going to go to Chipotle four times

464
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 1: a week? Might you go to a different caliber? And

465
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,199
Speaker 1: this is where it becomes really fascinating. A rich life

466
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 1: is not simply more frequency, A money dial turned all

467
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:56,160
Speaker 1: the way up could be eating at a beautiful Michelin

468
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 1: starred restaurant for lunch. It could be going. If you

469
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 1: turn it all the way up, you might go to

470
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 1: Italy with your loved one, go to a farmer's market

471
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 1: with a chef and make the food together. That sounds

472
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 1: like fun. So the point of a money dial, and

473
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:11,880
Speaker 1: the point of a rich life is to really get

474
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: specific about what it would look like. To turn it up.

475
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 1: Then you will understand what I mean when I say

476
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: I want you to spend extravagantly on the things you

477
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,199
Speaker 1: love as long as you cut costs mercilessly on the

478
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: things you don't.

479
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 2: And that's a really fascinating aspect to your writings and

480
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 2: to the show, because people seem to be somewhat agnostic

481
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 2: about their spending habits, regardless of whether it's important or not.

482
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,400
Speaker 2: And you know, if you get if you could get

483
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 2: people to focus on, oh, you want this big expensive

484
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 2: trip or this nice car or whatever it happens to be, well,

485
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 2: to get there, you just have to stopping money away

486
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 2: on junk. You're about halfway there. Yeah, what's the pushback

487
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 2: to that?

488
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: From clients and from people? Most people have simply been

489
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 1: taught that they should cut back a little bit on everything.

490
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 1: What a demoralizing philosophy. Oh, I should cut back five

491
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 1: percent on asparagus, five percent on my car, five percent

492
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 1: on rent, five percent on cable. It's like that is

493
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 1: so ineffective. That's why there's so many folks out there

494
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: who berate people about buying a spending skull.

495
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, if you're one latte away from your

496
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 2: retirement being messed up, you got bigger problems.

497
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 1: And truthfully, a coffee a day is not going to

498
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: change your financial life in any material way. But there

499
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 1: are certain five or ten big things that make a

500
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 1: huge difference. So what I encourage leu's to go through those,

501
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 1: all right, is what I tell people is stop asking

502
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: three dollars questions, start asking thirty thousand dollars questions. Those

503
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: would be am I automating my savings and investments? Have

504
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 1: I made rules for myself such that if I'm saving

505
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 1: five percent this year, I'm going to increase it by

506
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 1: one percent per year. That right there, if you do

507
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 1: that for your savings and investment, is worth hundreds of

508
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars more than all the coffee you'll ever buy?

509
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,199
Speaker 1: Am I aid? Well? Have I learned the skills of

510
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 1: negotiating my salary? Have I managed my asset allocation and

511
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: my investment fees? If you do these few things, you'll

512
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 1: be light years ahead of agonizing over the price of broccoli. Right.

513
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 2: It's whenever I read the spending scolds, they only always

514
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 2: have half the story. Never buy a sports car, never

515
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 2: buy a sell boat, never.

516
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: Buy always no, no, no.

517
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 2: But the right way to say that is, never buy

518
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 2: a sports car. If you can't afford a sports car.

519
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 2: But if you can afford it, go buy whatever the

520
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 2: hell you want. And that focusing on the spending but

521
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 2: ignoring the Hey, is this a rational expenditure for someone

522
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 2: who is earning enough to pay for that vacation, that house,

523
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 2: that car.

524
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 1: Why not? It's a very simple, puritanical view. Yes, that

525
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 1: people in personal finance espouse, which is it's really easy

526
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,199
Speaker 1: to tell people no to everything a blanket no. But

527
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 1: it's much harder. Yeah, intellectually lazy, but I think it's

528
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: much more fascinating and nuanced to show people you can

529
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: actually spend more on the things you love. For example,

530
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: I just posted a picture of my car I'm not

531
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: into cars, not at this phase of life, and I

532
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: know you are super into it, so this is interesting.

533
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 1: I posted my car so old. Of course it's a

534
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,199
Speaker 1: Honda Cord. All right, it's a very real.

535
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 2: We had a Honda Cord Crosstour. Yeah, probably the best car.

536
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 1: It's fantastic. So I don't you know, I could go

537
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 1: buy any car, but to me it's great. I hardly drive,

538
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: I have it. It's fine. One day, I'm sure I'll

539
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: get a much nicer car. And so I posted this

540
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 1: just show people. Look, this isn't my thing. It's where

541
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 1: I cut costs mercilessly. But when I travel, I love hotels,

542
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 1: I love clothes. Those are the things that are important

543
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: to me. And so I want people to actually have

544
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:50,719
Speaker 1: this highly dichotomous way of spending. You spend extravagantly bar

545
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 1: on certain things, yeah, bar bell, and then you cut

546
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: costs mercilessly on the things you don't. Huh.

547
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 2: I really like that concept. So, speaking of staying within

548
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 2: your you're spending limits. If you're making seventy grand a year,

549
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 2: maybe a four thousand dollars handbag isn't the best use

550
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 2: of your money.

551
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: It's very likely although if they tell me, hey, I

552
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: pay eighteen percent of gross for my rent, I would

553
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: go cool, what are you doing with the rest? They go?

554
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: I love a bag? I go, how long is it

555
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: going to take you to save? They go, I know

556
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,199
Speaker 1: my numbers? Fourteen months? Fantastic, But I will say, you know,

557
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: we want to be reasonable. The fact of the matter

558
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: is ninety plus percent of people do not know their

559
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 1: basic numbers.

560
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on the early retirement fire movement.

561
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: I like any movement that gets Americans to think about

562
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: increasing their savings rate. I love that. I love a

563
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 1: movement that gets people to be goal oriented. I love that. However,

564
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: it quickly crosses over into obsession over pure metrics, and truthfully,

565
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,439
Speaker 1: accumulating money is never the goal, right, I is living

566
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: in the spreadsheet.

567
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 2: I'm glad you said that. I remember reading a blog

568
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 2: post by someone who was in that space and they

569
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 2: were stressing because they had a house guest who was

570
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 2: taking a long hot shower. Come on, swear this is true,

571
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 2: and the long hot shower was going to be expensive.

572
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 2: And it's like, again, if a hot shower the cost

573
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 2: of that is too much, what are you going to

574
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 2: do when you're old. If you're retired in your prime,

575
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 2: living earning, spending years, it just makes no sense.

576
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: That's when you've gone too far. Imagine you have a

577
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: pair of eyeglasses. The primary money lens that we use

578
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 1: in this country is cost. We go to the store,

579
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 1: we look at the cost. I get it, but the

580
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: wrong measure. There are so many other lenses. So for

581
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: something like black pepper, which I don't really care about,

582
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: I'll use cost fine. But for other things like a

583
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: pair of shoes which I am going to keep for

584
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: seven years, or taking my parents out to a really

585
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: nice restaurant, I'm going to use different lenses. So there

586
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: are lenses like security and safety, delight results. That's why

587
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 1: somebody might hire a personal trainer int of doing it

588
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: on YouTube, even just luxury. So what I want is

589
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 1: for people, like a symphony, you've got to be able

590
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: to have different instruments, not only the instrument of cost.

591
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,479
Speaker 1: And that's where I think people go wrong. Huh, really

592
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: really fascinating.

593
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,959
Speaker 2: I've always thought of you as like in a financial advisor,

594
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 2: but on the show it's almost like you're a therapist

595
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 2: slash counselor. Each of these vignettes are like interventions. How

596
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 2: how do you think of this? Am I misdescribing you?

597
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 2: How do you think of your own work? What's your

598
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 2: job title?

599
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: Well, you can call me what you want. I mean,

600
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: I judge. I get judged by the results of the

601
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: people I work with, which I love. I think that

602
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: money is so much more than just what's on the page.

603
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: And ultimately, through the show and through my podcast, I've

604
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: become much more interested in the interpersonal dynamics couples, even individuals.

605
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: They know that they should I'll save more, They know

606
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: that they should probably pay off debt. Why aren't they?

607
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: And that, to me is where we begin to peel

608
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: the onion.

609
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 2: That's more counseling than is financial advice. And on the show,

610
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 2: I've seen some themes come up or over again. So first,

611
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 2: none of these people they don track their spending. There's

612
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 2: no budget, there's not even the mental buckets of I'm

613
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 2: gonna spend this much on entertainment and this much on rent.

614
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 2: It just is a fire hose coming in and a

615
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 2: fire hose going out.

616
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: That's very astute. I think that the way most people

617
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: think about money is purely reactive and purely transactional. So

618
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: it goes like this, our printer broke down, Let's buy

619
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: a new printer. Our kids need soccer cleats, Let's go

620
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: buy soccer cleats. Oh my gosh, we got our credit

621
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: card bill. I guess we spent that much on sprinklers

622
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: at home depot. And that's basically the next forty years

623
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: of life. And that's true. That's true, And so I

624
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: have a lot of compassion because we've all done that

625
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: in some way. It could be fitness, it could be relationships,

626
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: it could be anything. You and I understand that you

627
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: should probably have certain mental buggets, and you should probably

628
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: go on offense instead of defense. And we get that.

629
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: After you understand the stuff, it's not that hard. If

630
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 1: you don't even know, for example, how to decide if

631
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: you can afford your car, then that is really where

632
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: we're starting. Or your house.

633
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 2: People are living in houses with hoa fees and repair

634
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: costs that they seemingly never thought of.

635
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: Well, this is the number one thing, you know. When

636
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: I talk to folks, the number one and number two

637
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: area they overspend on. Number one is their house because

638
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 1: they have no sense of they don't even know that

639
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: twenty eight percent rule. They don't know twenty eight thirty six.

640
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: That's very technical. And the second area they overspend on

641
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: is their car. Now, why what is in common with

642
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: both of those? First, they've gotten more expensive recently, yes,

643
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: but two there are gigantic phantom costs with each of those.

644
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: When I show people, for example, that if you take

645
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: a mortgage, you might as well just add on fifty

646
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: percent to that mortgage to account for taxi is interests,

647
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: maintenance opportunity costs, they are shocked. They can't believe it.

648
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: In fact, when I go further and tell them that

649
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: it's actually been a better decision for me to rent

650
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: than to own, it's like somebody's telling them the sky

651
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: is green.

652
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 2: Well, the American dream has been. You know, you find

653
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 2: your little place, you buy it, you own it. No

654
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 2: one could raise your rent. You can paint the walls

655
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 2: any color.

656
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're not throwing money away on rent. Funny

657
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: they never say that when you go out to a restaurant,

658
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: you're throwing money away in a restaurant. And then they go, oh,

659
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,479
Speaker 1: you're paying your landlord's mortgage. I go, are you concerned

660
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: about paying your sushi restaurant owner's mortgage? No, it's a

661
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:40,959
Speaker 1: bunch of almost religious aphorisms. They lack any substance, and

662
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: so we simply meaninglessly repeat these phrases. I don't want

663
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: to throw rent away easier than teaching opportunity cost and

664
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: doing a buy versus rent cost.

665
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 2: So let's talk about a couple of other things. On

666
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 2: the show that I was fascinated by. Reckless spending is

667
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 2: kind of a theme. We mentioned the four thousand dollars

668
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 2: handbag for somebody who really not affording right, or the

669
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 2: guy who was spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars each

670
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 2: month on video games. I mean, one video game should

671
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 2: keep you busy for a month, yeah, not dozens. That

672
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 2: that was sort of an obsession.

673
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: So that that's really interesting When I heard that, I

674
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: really want everyone watching How to Get Rich to notice

675
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: my reaction when people. First of all, it is extremely

676
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: intimate for people to admit all their financials to anyone,

677
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: and I had all of their financials.

678
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 2: I saw that by the way you walk through, here's

679
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 2: their credit card spending, here's what's in their savings account.

680
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 2: One of the people who's spending a ton of money

681
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 2: literally had five dollars in change in their savings account

682
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 2: until now.

683
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: You've never been able to actually see inside people's It's

684
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: pretty horrifying. It's fascinating to me. It's like a microscope,

685
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: you know. They see a spreadsheet. To me, when I

686
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: look at someone's money, I see a family trip to Disneyland,

687
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: or I see a beautiful outfit, or I see early retirement.

688
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: And that's what I wanted to shift them to. So

689
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: when people invite me into their homes and they open

690
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: up their finances to me, they are very brittle. They're

691
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: expecting me to come down like a pile of bricks

692
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: and say you're doing it all wrong. And a lot

693
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: of times I just go, that's really interesting, why'd you

694
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: do that? What do you love about video games? And

695
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: you can see them visibly loosen up.

696
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 2: You're very genteel with these people. There's no finger wagging,

697
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 2: there's no scolding, and you very gently nudge them to

698
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 2: You give them I forgot which woman it was, Maybe

699
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 2: it was the gymnast. You give her three choices. Choice

700
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 2: say do nothing, choice B, do something little, choice CY

701
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 2: do something large, and nobody wants to do nothing. Yeah,

702
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 2: well they have agency. They're saying, well I'm not going

703
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 2: to do a so now it's their decision.

704
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: Correct. So there's a lot of psychology interplay. And if

705
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: you're listening, and for example, you've had a spouse maybe

706
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: who's just seemingly not interested in money, or your kids

707
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: or any around you where you're or you can't even

708
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: bring yourself sometimes to figure out how to spend money

709
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: more meaningfully. A lot of us think that the solution

710
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: is found in a spreadsheet, and it's not. For every

711
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: single person on the show and on my podcast, there

712
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 1: is something much deeper going on, and it's easy, in fact,

713
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: it's lazy to throw a bunch of numbers. Here's a

714
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: compound interest chart that's not going to change anybody's life.

715
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: We've all seen it, we all know what it says.

716
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 1: But to understand, for example, what did your parents say

717
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: around the dinner table? And you will always hear people

718
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: repeating phrases like we can't afford it. Money doesn't grow

719
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: on trees. Now imagine hearing that ten thousand times growing up.

720
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 1: What you left the door open? Again? Must I pay

721
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: the heat? And a laying exactly? I heard that growing constantly,

722
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 1: and so so a lot of the folks, whether it

723
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,280
Speaker 1: be on the show or on my podcast, they they'll

724
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: do very well. They may get a great job, accumulate money,

725
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: and they can afford any launch. They can afford a trip,

726
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 1: but some of them agonize over it. Why they think, oh,

727
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: I'm bad, I feel guilty buying this business class trip.

728
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,359
Speaker 1: But really it often traces back to what they heard

729
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: from their parents.

730
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 2: H really interesting. Let's talk about married couples that don't

731
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 2: have a joint checking account. Two different couples with that's unfathomable.

732
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 1: Really, that surprises you.

733
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 2: Shocking because I remember when I first got married. I'm

734
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 2: married thirty years already we had separate checking accounts, and

735
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 2: my wife is like, why do you need to hide

736
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 2: your money from me? I'm not high. First of all,

737
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 2: she was making more than me. And second, I'm not

738
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 2: hiding I have this account, you have that account. We

739
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 2: merged everything and never looked back. By the way she

740
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 2: takes care of the bills, because when we were younger,

741
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 2: when the lights went out, that's how I knew it

742
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 2: was time to pay the electric back.

743
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,439
Speaker 1: First of all, congratulations on thirty years. That's amazing. Yeah,

744
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: that's the ultimate part of a rich life. I'm not

745
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: surprised that so many couples don't have joint accounts. But

746
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: I'll tell you something that might surprise you. I actually

747
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 1: don't have a problem if couples have separate accounts. Here's

748
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 1: what's really going on. The people that get into financial

749
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 1: trouble in relationships tend to have separate accounts. But it's

750
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 1: not the separate accounts that cause the problem. It's the

751
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 1: fact that they simply slid into this relationship as individuals

752
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,359
Speaker 1: and never sat down and discussed how do we want

753
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: our money to go. So if they sit down and

754
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:20,359
Speaker 1: they go, you know what, I think we prefer to

755
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 1: have separate accounts. We can combine as necessary. I say, fantastic.

756
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: But most people with separate accounts never had that conversation,

757
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: and that is the.

758
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 2: P And it's not just the separate accounts, it's the

759
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 2: separate spending and separate priorities. Where how are we gonna save?

760
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 2: If you're buying extra Y or Z, we'll never get

761
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 2: out of debt, we'll never buy that house, which was

762
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 2: one of the couples motivation.

763
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: This is very common, so you know on the podcast,

764
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 1: I only speak to couples and you'll get these these patterns.

765
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: One is an overspender. One is an underspender. I had

766
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: a particularly fascinating couple. I think it was around episode twenty.

767
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 1: He wrote me in all caps, he said, remeet, please help.

768
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: My wife of twenty one years is about to divorce

769
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 1: me because I'm too cheap. I was like click, so

770
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: I immediately click and respond to him. I brought him

771
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: on the show with his wife. I had reviewed all

772
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 1: their finances and she was angry, in fact, almost checked out.

773
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: And she said, I don't understand why, after twenty years

774
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 1: of marriage, he doesn't trust me. Our yard is the

775
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: only unlandscaped yard, she said. He asked me to find

776
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 1: mattresses for our two girls. I spent a week creating

777
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: a spreadsheet, and he said, that's too expensive. The mattresses

778
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: were something like five hundred bucks. Their net worth, Barry,

779
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 1: can you guess five million dollars? It was around thirteen

780
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: million dollars. And so when you hear five hundred bucks

781
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: from mattress is just irrelevant, it's meaningless. It would be

782
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 1: easy to simply say, this guy's nuts. Why don't you

783
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: lose some issues for sure? Yeah, and that's where I start.

784
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 1: That's where I go. Let's talk about it non judgmentally.

785
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: But let's talk about what's going on. Remember she was

786
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 1: about to div worse him and so you can listen

787
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,240
Speaker 1: to the episode at episode twenty and you can hear

788
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: how that conversation evolves. It's much deeper than math.

789
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 2: So this raises really interesting question. People reveal very embarrassing,

790
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 2: challenging financial habits. How did you get these folks to

791
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 2: come clean on them.

792
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: On the show? Yeah, we have casting. So casting went

793
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: out and found particularly interesting situations, and I gave a

794
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,439
Speaker 1: lot of guidance as to what type of people are

795
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 1: especially interesting on my podcast. That was the hardest thing

796
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,720
Speaker 1: of all is to get people to open up all

797
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: of their financials. Not only have we been able to

798
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: do that, now we have them on video, just like

799
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: on the show. That's very intimate. I'm not sure I

800
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: would go on a show like that. What I've learned

801
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: about the psychology of people appearing on this is you

802
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: have to understand that most people feel truly law when

803
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 1: it comes to money. They don't know who to trust.

804
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: They don't even know the difference between the word financial

805
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,399
Speaker 1: advisor and four oh one K like those two they're

806
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: in different universes to us, but to somebody walking on

807
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: the street, those words are all jumbled up into the

808
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: personal finance or confusing money cloud. And so when they

809
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:22,800
Speaker 1: hear somebody who comes and says like, Hey, I'm not

810
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: going to judge you. If you like a purse, I'm

811
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: not going to judge you. If you like to eat out, fine,

812
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,399
Speaker 1: I like a couple of nice things myself. That's cool.

813
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: Let's talk about what your rich life is and how

814
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: we can use your money to get there. They are

815
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: willing to open up anything if they know that they

816
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: can trust me. Really really intriguing.

817
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 2: So so let's we were talking earlier about budgeting and

818
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 2: you know, credit scores and things like that. Let's talk

819
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,879
Speaker 2: a little bit about people who have more money than

820
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 2: they know what to do with because they've spent their

821
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 2: whole life working and saving and investing, and suddenly they

822
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 2: have a heart hard time pivoting to Hey, I could

823
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 2: take that trip, I could buy that sell boat, I

824
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 2: could do what I want. What sort of advice do

825
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 2: you give to these folks to allow them to be

826
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 2: more comfortable to make that transition.

827
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: This is my favorite topic, Barry, because nobody really talks

828
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 1: about it, and it's very politically incorrect.

829
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 2: We talk about this in the office all the time.

830
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 2: It comes up constantly, partly because we have a lot

831
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 2: of wealthy clients, but also partly because we're big believers

832
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 2: in as you suggest, you have to use money as

833
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 2: a tool to live your richest life. What advice do

834
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 2: you give these folks.

835
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 1: One way to think about it is you really have

836
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: your prime spending years between the ages of forty to sixty.

837
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 1: So think about that before forty. Most people don't really

838
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 1: have money. After sixty, there may be health issues, whether

839
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: it be with yourself or somebody in your family, that

840
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 1: you have to take care of whatever things happen. So

841
00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:00,760
Speaker 1: if you accept the idea that your prime space between

842
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: forty to sixty, what does that mean for you? And

843
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 1: suddenly traveling to certain places becomes an urgency. Eating at

844
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 1: a certain restaurant you've always wanted to becomes an urgency.

845
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: This requires a change. One The idea of shifting from

846
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: accumulation to deaccumulation is really hard. That's why you know

847
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 1: when people retire, they start freaking out because they're not

848
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: getting the income, even though the interest pays more than

849
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: they would have ever made.

850
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 2: Right, they're not getting the income and they have a

851
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 2: lot more hours in the day to go out and

852
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 2: spend money exactly.

853
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 1: The second thing is people often make this jump. They go, well,

854
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: if I go eat at that restaurant, I don't want

855
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: to have to become that rich guy who's eating there.

856
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 1: I go, you think you're going to trip and fall

857
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,439
Speaker 1: and eat at a Michelin starred restaurant every single night.

858
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 1: It's like, get real. I trust myself enough to know

859
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 1: that I can drive a car twice and not have

860
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: to buy ten of them. I trust myself enough to

861
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 1: know Barry's going I don't know about that. He goes,

862
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 1: have you been in my Porsche? Okay, maybe not. I

863
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 1: trust myself enough to know that I can eat at

864
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 1: a nice restaurant for an anniversary and say wow, I

865
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 1: really love that, or that wasn't my thing but it

866
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 1: was cool, and not have to do it every night.

867
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: Many of us have simply never built the skill. And

868
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,879
Speaker 1: it is a skill of spending money. So we've earned it,

869
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,720
Speaker 1: we've managed it, but we never actually built the skill

870
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 1: of spending it meaningfully. And that's why we have to

871
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: start almost like we're building a new muscle.

872
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 2: How do you address the guilt that some people feel

873
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 2: when they say I'm spending my kids inherness.

874
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 1: I don't. First of all, it's lazy for people. When

875
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: I ask them what's your rich life? They go, you

876
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: know what, I'm so simple. I'm just a simple person.

877
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: I really want to just provide for my kids. I go,

878
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 1: that sucks. That's a boring answer, and that's intellectually lazy.

879
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 1: So you worked your entire life. Oh and you never

880
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 1: modeled building good spending house. You literally accumulated it like

881
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 1: Scrooge McDuck, and you're handing it over to your kids

882
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 1: without any modeling. No, that's actually unacceptable to me. I

883
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,399
Speaker 1: told my parents. My parents had very modest incomes growing up,

884
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 1: and we told my mom and dad. I sat down

885
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 1: with them because they were nervous about spending money because

886
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: they had gone through the same thing, and I said,

887
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 1: let's look at the numbers. I mean, it very simple

888
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: for them. And I said, mom and dad, what are

889
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: you gonna do with this money if you don't start

890
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: spending it? And they'd never really thought about it. They go,

891
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 1: we'll give it to the kids. I go, we don't

892
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 1: want one cent. You taught us how to be educated,

893
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: you taught us good values. We want you to spend

894
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 1: every last cent and maybe even more. And so I

895
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 1: put them on a travel budget and I said, you

896
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 1: have to spend this much every single month. In fact,

897
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 1: they're abroad right now, which I'm so happy about. The

898
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 1: guilt of not leaving money for your kids really is

899
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 1: a deeply emotional response. You want to leave them money,

900
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,879
Speaker 1: please do leave them some, but more importantly, leave them

901
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: a model of you spending money on the things that

902
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 1: matter to you.

903
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 2: Do you get the kids involved? To get the whole

904
00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 2: family involved. When you're talking with a wealthy family that's

905
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 2: having some issues with figuring out how to live their

906
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 2: rich life.

907
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:05,720
Speaker 1: The first thing I do is work with the parents.

908
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 1: Parents are obsessed with the question about should I give

909
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 1: them an allowance? Should I not? I go. Listen. That's

910
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 1: like someone saying I want to meet the person of

911
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 1: my dreams. What kind of shoelaces should I wear? I go.

912
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 1: It's irrelevant. An allowance is not the primary issue. What

913
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 1: I ask them is how do you talk about money

914
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 1: at home? And they go, we don't talk about it.

915
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:25,839
Speaker 1: I go, why not? They go because our parents never

916
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:27,839
Speaker 1: talked about it. I go, Okay, we're gonna start talking

917
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: about it. Huh. Second, do you ever get excited about it?

918
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: Most people have never conceived that they can get excited

919
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 1: about money. They see it as something negative, something to

920
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: protect their children from, and so I suggest some gentle things.

921
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:42,879
Speaker 1: If their kid is very young, I say you don't

922
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: bring them over on your lap and say, you know,

923
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: mommy's going to log into the credit card. This is

924
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: what allows us to buy the food that we eat.

925
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: Can you help me push the button? And then as

926
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 1: they get older, empower them to make decisions about a

927
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: vacation or a dinner out. It's not about an allowance.

928
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 1: You can give them an allowance or not. That's not

929
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: the point. The point is to model health the relationship

930
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 1: with money. Huh.

931
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 2: That's really really interesting. We in the office we set

932
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,359
Speaker 2: up so we've had a robo advisor internally for six

933
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 2: seven years already, and we advise parents to set up

934
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 2: small accounts for their kids. So they start investing at eight, twelve,

935
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 2: fourteen years old. It doesn't have to be a lot

936
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:22,919
Speaker 2: of money, but they get to watch it grow. Yes,

937
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 2: and it's really like, oh, this is something that I

938
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 2: could continue to do on my.

939
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 1: Own, and they talk about it. I had another fascinating couple.

940
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,320
Speaker 1: They'd been dating for a year. They're in their late thirties.

941
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: He had started a business and he was paying himself

942
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 1: two thousand dollars a month. She was making two hundred

943
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: thousand dollars per month.

944
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 2: A month she was making one hundred times, so she's

945
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,919
Speaker 2: making two and a half million. Yes, that's a nice income.

946
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 1: Very nice. In her late thirties. She had more money

947
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,399
Speaker 1: than she would ever need. And they struggled. That reason

948
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 1: they came to me was it was about who's going

949
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: to pay the check for dinner. So believe it or not,

950
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 1: you know, this is a real deal. So I took

951
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 1: the call, and what became very clear was I asked

952
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 1: her when did you first learn about investing? And you

953
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,359
Speaker 1: know what she said, Barry, She said age five. Her

954
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 1: parents started talking about compound interest age five, which is

955
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 1: what wealthy families tend to do. Then I asked him

956
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: when did you learn about investing? He goes, I started

957
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: reading your book about two weeks ago. So imagine a

958
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: guy who has a thirty year deficit on learning about

959
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 1: a concept is important as compound interest. We can't expect

960
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: everybody to have the same knowledge. We all started different

961
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 1: parts in life. For me physical fitness. I wish I

962
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,359
Speaker 1: learned how to deadlift when I was sixteen. I didn't.

963
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: But if you can give your kids an advantage and

964
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 1: certainly your partner, it is to talk about money regularly

965
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:44,399
Speaker 1: and positively.

966
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 2: So before we get to a favorite question, it is

967
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 2: a quick curveball question. Got to ask how did the

968
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 2: Netflix deal come about? Did they reach out to you?

969
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,320
Speaker 2: Did you reach out to them? Was there a third

970
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,280
Speaker 2: party into mediary? How do you suddenly get a Netflix series?

971
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 1: They reached out to me, remember where I was. They

972
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: emailed me and it said, you know, would you be

973
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: interested in sitting down for a meeting? And also should

974
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 1: we communicate through you or do you have representation? Two

975
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: things happened to me. First off, I didn't believe it

976
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 1: was from them, so I went up to the from

977
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: and it said at Netflix dot Com. Was like, wait

978
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:18,879
Speaker 1: a second, Oh you could fake that though, That's okay enough,

979
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,359
Speaker 1: So I was like, this is hit reply. That's when

980
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: you know it's real. Yeah, that's a good tip. Well,

981
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 1: I'm glad it worked out. The second thing that occurred

982
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:27,399
Speaker 1: to me was I don't even know what they meant

983
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 1: by representation I'm not a Hollywood guy. I've been running

984
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: my business for twenty years on the New York base, right, yeah,

985
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 1: and then LA Now, but I didn't even know. So

986
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,240
Speaker 1: I had to learn how do you find an entertainment lawyer.

987
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 1: I literally went on Google and searched entertainment lawyer, and

988
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 1: I had to learn the entire business, which I'm just

989
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: just just starting to grasp. It was a totally fascinating journey.

990
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: And they had been wanting to do a money show.

991
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:55,359
Speaker 1: In fact, every network has been wanting to, right, but

992
00:48:55,400 --> 00:49:00,800
Speaker 1: money's really hard on TV. It's boring, it's often very depressing.

993
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: And so I told him point blank, I said, look,

994
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,760
Speaker 1: I'm interested, but I want to do it my way.

995
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: I do not want to brate some couple for how

996
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: much they spend on you know, Reese's pieces, cups. And

997
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 1: they said, no, no, no, we want you to do

998
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 1: it your way. They gave me broad creative because very

999
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,240
Speaker 1: THINGKFU is there gonna be a second season. We will see.

1000
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 2: I mean, given that it's top ten trending, you got

1001
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 2: to think it's interesting. What was the experience like putting

1002
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 2: this together? Is it's obviously it's not rioting, it's not podcasting,

1003
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 2: it's very different. You're pretty telligentic. Did you Did you

1004
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 2: find the transition to video challenging at all?

1005
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,879
Speaker 1: Definitely? Well, you know, I got a lot of nice

1006
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 1: comments from people around the world, and I thought to myself, Wow,

1007
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 1: so all it takes for me to look good is

1008
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: to throw up a multi million dollar crew with the

1009
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:47,439
Speaker 1: best cameras in the world and make up. And I said, wow, okay,

1010
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: I'll take it. I'll take whatever it takes. You know.

1011
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 1: What was challenging most of all was the intimacy of

1012
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,839
Speaker 1: going into people's houses. Yeah, Like in the first scene

1013
00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 1: you see me visiting Matt Namani, I meet their family children.

1014
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 1: That is as intimate as it gets to be in

1015
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 1: someone's living room talking about.

1016
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 2: Money, looking at their looking literally at their their their statements,

1017
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 2: their credit.

1018
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 1: Nds, watching fights happen in front of me, which I

1019
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: do love a good fight. I mean, I love reality

1020
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 1: TV myself. But you have to remember, you, No, it

1021
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 1: gets uncomfortable. Yeah, and it should, right, money is uncomfortable. Yeah,

1022
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 1: and that's okay. But all this time there's a tight

1023
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 1: camera on my face and I'm thinking, oh my, like,

1024
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 1: is this really happening? So to me That's what is

1025
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 1: the magic of the show is. I don't know anything

1026
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,799
Speaker 1: about them. All I know is their name and their financials,

1027
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 1: same as you, and together we go and discover what's

1028
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 1: going on.

1029
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 2: Well, well, it's definitely entertaining. We'll blow through five questions

1030
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 2: really quickly, starting with other than how to get rich?

1031
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 2: What else are you streaming on on Netflix or anything else?

1032
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 1: I'm watching Indian Matchmaking just because I love it. Come on,

1033
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 1: my parents had an arranged marriage. You know, I have

1034
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:59,359
Speaker 1: to watch this. It's you know, it hits home. And

1035
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 1: on the podcast side, there's a couple. One is there's

1036
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 1: this interesting podcast about Rolls Royce and it's called ghost Stories.

1037
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: It's about their ghost and it's you know, it's a

1038
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 1: little bit like marketing. But I just love craftsmanship. I

1039
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 1: love design, so I get to hear from the design.

1040
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 1: And you're not sporting a watch. I'm surprised.

1041
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:19,439
Speaker 2: I figure that you're a clothes guy.

1042
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,720
Speaker 1: I'm a hotel guy, and clothes and convenience like personal

1043
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 1: training and things like that.

1044
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 2: Watches doesn't do anything for nah. I'll tell you a

1045
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 2: funny story about that later. Second question, who your mentors

1046
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,240
Speaker 2: who helped shape your career?

1047
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 1: Bj Fogg, one of my professors at Stanford. I learned

1048
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,720
Speaker 1: from him at the Persuasive Technology Lab. He's still a

1049
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 1: close friend of mine. Jay Abraham taught me a lot

1050
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 1: about putting my customers and clients at the center of

1051
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 1: my world, those who are very influential and continue to be.

1052
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 2: Let's talk about books. What are some of your favorites.

1053
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 2: What are you reading right now?

1054
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 1: One of my favorites is The Color of Law. That's

1055
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:00,800
Speaker 1: a book about redlining. It's about race and real estate

1056
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:03,439
Speaker 1: in this country. Most people have no idea that real

1057
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 1: estate is deeply, deeply built around race. It's racist. It's

1058
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: a racist institution in our country and has been for

1059
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: a long, long decades. It is built that way.

1060
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 2: Do you think people really don't know that inner cities

1061
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:21,360
Speaker 2: and slums and the highways that will cleave the lower

1062
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 2: income part of the town right and half?

1063
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 1: They have no idea? In your face, you know, you

1064
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:28,279
Speaker 1: can't miss it unless you've been radicalized to ignore it.

1065
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:29,879
Speaker 1: So no, they do not know, and they don't want

1066
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:32,360
Speaker 1: to know. And that's why every time I talk about books,

1067
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: I talk about this book, The Color of Law. It

1068
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 1: is staggering to learn what happened in our country. And

1069
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 1: then I'm reading a book right now called Unreasonable Hospitality

1070
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:45,399
Speaker 1: the manager of eleven Madison Park. Wow, really interesting how

1071
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 1: they took that restaurant to be top top nion. I

1072
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 1: just love a good hospitality, huh. Story.

1073
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,799
Speaker 2: Last two questions, what sort of advice would you give

1074
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 2: to a recent college grad who is interested in a

1075
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 2: career in e. They're financial counseling or investing gosh?

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00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 1: I would say, first off, talk to people who are

1077
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,720
Speaker 1: in the industry and were in the industry and left.

1078
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:14,359
Speaker 1: Talk to at least fifteen people and find out what's

1079
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 1: their lifestyle like. Do they get to travel, do they

1080
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: enjoy it, what are they like, what are they not like?

1081
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 1: Find out if it's for you. And then the second

1082
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 1: thing I would say is if you are interested in

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00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 1: financial counseling, therapy, etc. You're going to learn the technical skills.

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00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 1: But the skill that I think is underrepresented when it

1085
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 1: comes to money is understanding people. So psychology is absolutely

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00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 1: critical and that will set you apart.

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00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 2: Our final question, what do you know about the world

1088
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 2: of advice and financial planning and counseling that you wish

1089
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 2: you knew twenty years or so? Ago when you were

1090
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 2: first getting started.

1091
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 1: Education alone is not the answer. I often get people saying, Remit,

1092
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: we should teach your book in high school, and I

1093
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 1: actually did agree. Educational loan doesn't solve the problems we have.

1094
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: It helps, but there are structural changes that need to

1095
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 1: be made, such as building more housing. There are also

1096
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 1: ways of communicating about money, which is why I did

1097
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 1: this Netflix show and my podcast to show people that

1098
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 1: money can actually be fun and joyful and not simply

1099
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 1: something that you need to do like flossing your teeth.

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00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:25,839
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be a drag. Tell people where

1101
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:29,399
Speaker 2: they can find you, your website, the name of the show,

1102
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 2: and the book and everything else.

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00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:33,360
Speaker 1: The name of the show on Netflix is How to

1104
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:37,800
Speaker 1: Get Rich. My suggestion is watch the first three minutes

1105
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 1: and notice the differences in how we talk about money.

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00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 1: My podcast, where I speak to couples from all over

1107
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:47,839
Speaker 1: the economic spectrum, is I Will Teach You to Be Rich,

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00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: and my book is also called I Will Teach You

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00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:51,800
Speaker 1: to Be Rich. Reme.

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00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming in today. This was

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00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 2: a blast. If you enjoy this conversation, well, be sure

1112
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 2: and check any of the previous five hundred we've done

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00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 2: You can find those at YouTube, iTunes, Spotify, wherever you

1114
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 2: find your favorite podcasts. You can sign up for my

1115
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:11,800
Speaker 2: daily reading list at ridults dot com. Follow me on

1116
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:15,360
Speaker 2: Twitter at rid Holts, Follow all of the fine family

1117
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:19,840
Speaker 2: of Bloomberg podcasts at podcast I would be remiss if

1118
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 2: I did not thank the crack team that helps put

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00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 2: these conversations together each week. Samantha Danzinger is my audio

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00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 2: engineer at Tika of Al Brown is my project manager.

1121
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 2: Paris Wald is my producer. Sean Russo is my researcher.

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00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 2: I'm Barry Ridolts. You've been listening to Masters in Business

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Speaker 2: on Bloomberg Radio.