WEBVTT - SYSK Selects: How Lobbying Works 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:04.200 Hi, folks, Chuck here with your Saturday Select. Because it's 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.120 election season, I thought we'd dig back into the archives 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:11.440 from October and find out how lobbying works. You may 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:14.200 think lobbying is awful, and it certainly can be, but 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:18.079 also serves a purpose. Uh you know, I'll let you 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:20.040 make your own mind up about it. But here we 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:25.520 go with how lobbying works. Right now, welcome to Stuff 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:28.120 you should know, a production of My Heart Radios How 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:37.479 Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:42.760 Clark and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant and crickets. So weird. Yeah, 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:47.159 we're doing this um ghost style. Yeah, So what happened 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:50.519 was and I didn't you explain to me? But I 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:52.560 don't know. Maybe my mind was elsewhere and I didn't 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:56.920 fully understand. But what happened is guest producer Noel got 0:00:57.080 --> 0:00:59.960 the record, he could put the mouse in the hamster wheel, 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:06.320 got the computer running and left. And now you're a 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:09.039 little freaked out, aren't Well it's this is out of 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:11.520 close to eight hundred shows, this is literally the first 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:13.840 time it's ever just been you and me in a room. Yeah, 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:17.960 isn't that crazy? Yeah? It really is, isn't it. It's 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:20.400 I feel like I don't know. I feel like there 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:23.040 no one in here, even though no one ever guides 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:25.600 us that we should just I don't know that we're 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:28.319 gonna cut up and curse. And it's like when the 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:30.280 teacher has left the room, it feels like there's a 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:34.479 vast field, a portal to another dimension to my right, 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:38.120 where Jarry usually said, So, I had no idea what 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:42.560 that extra silent human three ft from this meant. I 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:46.560 think now this means that we've been put out to pasture. Wow, 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:49.720 this is disconcerting. Alright. I feel like you're gonna like 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:52.240 knife me or something. I could right now, I know 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:55.400 and whatever. Now until we published the episode, Nope, no 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:58.480 one would ever know. Wow, And that's gruesome. All right, 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:01.840 this is just weird. Let's let's do it. You ready, Yeah, 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:04.280 good choice. By the way, Yeah, I don't remember what 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:07.360 episode we picked this in. We were talking about something 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:09.520 and lobbying came up, where like we should just do 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:12.000 one on lobbying. Well, here it is. Yeah, it's it's 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:15.480 I'm glad we're doing this because we'll clear up some misconceptions. Uh, 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:20.640 it's not always evil, just the time maybe more. Yeah, 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:22.800 um yeah, I remember when we said we were going 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:24.520 to do a lobbying when we got a lot of 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.960 emails from lobbyists who were like, please, please, please, don't 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:32.560 just trash our profession like we ever would. Um they're 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:34.440 they were like, lobbying is actually it can be a 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:36.480 really good thing, and sure that's why. So we got 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:38.720 a lot of feedback before this thing even came out, 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:42.079 which hopefully will help us. Well, they're understandably a very 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:47.280 defensive group. Yes, everyone thinks it's just rotten and corrupt 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:55.200 across all channels, and a rotten to the core. Um. 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:58.440 And the reason I and just about everyone else walking 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:02.560 the planet thinks that lobbyists are rotten it is because 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:06.079 of some very high profile cases like remember Jack Abramoff, 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:09.720 who can forget what a and I usually don't publicly 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:13.320 trash people, but that guy was a pile of garbage. 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:15.840 You know, there's really no I was trying to find 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:17.880 some other way around it. It was like, no, he 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:22.680 was awful, Yeah, and just ripped people off, unabashedly ripped 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:26.440 off Indian bribed officials, bribe people, pocketed money, and he 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.840 was a highly highly successful, obvious people. He was working 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:34.160 for he was he's not a good fellow. No, but again, 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:36.680 he was a successful lobbyist. He was at the top 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:41.040 of it of his field for many years. Actually. Um, 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:43.040 and it wasn't until two thousand and six when he 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:46.760 was convicted of I believe, like bribery and corruption and 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:50.160 all sorts of stuff, tax evasion, all kinds of stuff. Yeah. Um, 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:53.560 and I ended up serving three three years. I think 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:55.840 he did three three years in the pokey Yeah, and 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:59.640 supposedly had to pay a lot of restitution and tax fines. Yeah. 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:01.600 But who knows how that stuff works out. No one 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:04.600 ever follows up to see, you know. We just say, oh, 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:06.920 he got a he's supposed to pay all these people back. 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.320 Sure it happened, Yeah, who knows. He probably found a 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:12.960 loophole to work on. He's probably working on a lawsuit 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:16.479 against us right this moment. Chuck, Oh, can you not 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:21.159 publicly call someone garbage? I think you can. Okay, can 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:24.400 we find out Can we read this opening statement from 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:26.919 eighteen sixty nine, Yeah, because I think it makes a 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:32.120 pretty good point that Jack Abramoff wasn't the first despised lobbyist. No. 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:36.280 This is written by Emily Edson Briggs, who was a 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:40.120 Washington D c. Newspaper correspondent UM at a time where 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:41.600 there weren't a lot of women doing that, which is 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:43.159 kind of cool. And I think she was the first 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:47.080 allowed into the Congressional press room. Yeah, they said let her, 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:50.080 and she'll never say anything bad because we gave her 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:52.640 this job. And she's like, he fell from my big 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:56.800 cookies plan. So she wrote a column talk called the 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:58.760 Dragons of the Lobby. So you probably know where this 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:01.360 is headed. And the pending line of the column said, 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:04.800 winding in and out through the long, devious basement passage, 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:09.400 crawling through the corridors, trailing at slimy length from gallery 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:12.720 to committee room. At last it lies stretched at full 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:15.680 length on the floor of the Congress, this dazzling reptile, 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:20.240 this huge, scaly serpent of the lobby. That could have 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:22.600 been our Halloween episode. It really could have. Maybe we 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:24.800 should gus see that. I think we should with horror 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:26.840 a little bit of sound effect. Yeah, that was in 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:30.159 eighteen sixty nine. Yeah, not very flattering, um And it 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:32.920 was actually I think it did come at a time 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:38.200 when lobbying and lobbyists were really getting a choke hold 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:43.960 on um on Congress on legislation on sweetheart deals from 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:49.200 the federal government. Um, but lobbying goes further back than that, 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:52.880 and lobbyists have been despised even further back than that 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:56.279 as a matter of fact. Yeah, and it's uh again, 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:58.680 it's something this article makes. I thought, this is a 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:00.880 really well written article. Actually, yeah, this was the day 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:04.760 Ruse article, and he did a good job. He points 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:07.679 out that the knee jerk reaction for your average person 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:10.440 might be to say, just make it all illegal, get 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:13.640 rid of the lobby because it's awful, But he makes 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:16.320 a good point that it is. It is necessary. The 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:19.680 First Amendment in our own constitution says the right of 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:22.040 the people to petition the government for a redress of 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:29.120 grievances is necessary and constitutional and mandatory. Yeah, and that's 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:33.000 what lobbyists do, is uh. It's not always a huge corporation. 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:35.800 A lot of times they'll speak for the Girl Scouts 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:38.720 or the Boy Scouts or you know, all kinds of 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:41.720 special interest groups, and we all have them, so you me, 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:46.240 everyone listening in America has a constitutional right to go 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:48.919 and petition Congress to say, hey, guys, you guys aren't 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:54.520 paying enough attention to government waste or NASA deserves way 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:57.120 more funding than you're giving it. Whatever, you can go 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:02.840 do that. That's lobbying technically, but unfortunately, almost from the beginning, uh, 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:07.200 corporate and big business special interest groups figured out a 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:11.520 way to basically exploit that to their to their own benefit. Yeah, 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:14.040 and it's uh. Rus also points out, and we'll get 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:16.800 to this later, U, which is one of the big problems. 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:20.440 It's necessary because Congress in their staff don't have time 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:25.080 to uh that's well again, we'll get to that later. Okay, 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:26.480 you don't want to spoil it, all right, but they 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:29.840 don't have time to go through the myriad request and 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:35.240 and uh information deluge of information that's necessary to make 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:39.640 an educated decision, and so much so that Senator John F. 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:45.000 Kennedy in said, uh, that we are in many cases 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:51.640 expert technicians capable of not we are, I'm sorry, lobbyists 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:55.200 are in many cases, I'm sorry, are in many cases 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:59.840 expert technicians capable of examining complex and difficult subjects and 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:04.240 clear understandable fashion. So that's the reason we need them 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:09.000 in many cases is to literally explain stuff too. Congress 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:12.760 people and staff strapped for time and resources. It should 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:16.080 be said, though, that Um. When Kennedy wrote that in 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:19.240 the mid fifties, lobbying was not much of a thing. 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.680 It had like it was established, had been established for 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:25.920 a couple hundred years. People hated lobbyists. There were huge 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:30.040 um lobbyists scandals in the Gilded Age from the Civil 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:32.600 War to the nineteenth century. But in the mid fifties 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:36.480 lobbying was not a huge thing. It wasn't so um. 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:39.840 What he said, though, is accurate, and it's still is 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:44.079 accurate today. If you are an incoming congress person, Um, 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:48.320 you make your name both to your constituency and in 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:52.160 your party by getting bills passed, by coming up with 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:54.200 bills and passing them. Right, look at all the work 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:58.480 I accomplished. And then if you get enough, you may 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:01.640 end up on a nice maybe even a committee chair, 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:04.000 and then eventually a party leader. And all that is 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:07.960 because you introduced legislation that was favored and got past. 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:11.640 The thing is, you don't have the time or the 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:16.360 staff to research and write legislation, so you have to 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:21.200 you have to turn to lobbyists lobbying groups and say, hey, 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:25.839 you guys are literally experts on this topic. I need 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:29.960 your help. Uh, educate me, help me write this, and 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:33.960 then um will will be friends. The problem is is 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:36.560 there's not a there's not a special interest group like 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:38.960 you said, whether it's the Girl Scouts or whether it's 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:43.800 uh the Chamber of Commerce that doesn't have a slamp 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:46.240 that isn't going to try to slam the legislation in 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:49.920 their favor. So that means that the laws that are 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:55.120 written in this country today are the legislative equivalents of avertorials, 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:58.720 you know, kind of thin on actual content and really 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:03.160 heavy on stuff that benefits the corporations running this show. 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.160 You know who would make good lobbyists? Who they're in 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:09.040 this room right now? Oh you think so. I was 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:14.240 just thinking, like generally unbiased research presented so someone can 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:16.480 make a decision. Yeah, that's kind of what we do, 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:22.200 except we're not paid like lobbyists make a lot of dough. Uh. 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:26.760 In fact, in two thousand fourteen, lobbyists and these are 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.560 people that are officially registered as lobbyists, which will get 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:33.000 to there are a lot more people doing lobby esque 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:37.600 work that aren't officially registered, but official registered lobbyists. Uh, 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:41.240 we're paid out to three point two four billion dollars 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:45.080 in two thousand fourteen, and that is only divided among 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:50.160 how many people? Was it about ten thousand six people? 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:55.319 What are you kidding? That's how many registered lobbyists there were, 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:59.839 right and this year and that's but again just the 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:03.240 registered one from a high of about fourteen and change. 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:06.520 And when what's that two thousand six or seven? Yeah, 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.440 and the two two thousand seven changes came along, and 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.000 it's not because there are fewer lobbyists there there that 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:14.880 just gave rise to people, or gave people the ability 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:17.040 to be like, oh, I'm not a lobbyist anymore. Because 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:20.840 here's the thing. If you are a registered lobbyist, you 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:26.280 are subject to some very strict ethical guidelines, legal guidelines, 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:30.040 scrutiny of your business practices, and there's a lot of 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:34.240 stuff you can't do. You just you're just completely outlawed 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:38.560 from doing certain things. If if you can just skirt 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:42.559 the definition of a lobbyists, it's like open season, man, 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:45.200 it's the wild West on Capitol Hill for you, and 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:47.719 you can make as much money as you possibly can 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:50.439 while doing the same things just not having to register 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:53.160 as a lobbyist. All right, But that's a lot of teasing. 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:55.559 This is the like but this is the current state 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:59.960 of the American legislative process. Are legislators for a lot 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:04.400 on special interest groups almost entirely to tell them what 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:08.560 they need to know from their slant, and then actually 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:11.280 writing the legislation for them to go take the Congress 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:13.360 and be like what I got. I'm gonna make my 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:16.280 name with this. All right. There's one other thing too 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:18.480 that we should say, and this is a this is 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:23.360 one reason why lobbying is so pernicious. Um. Lobbyists also 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:30.280 serve as major fundraisers for the very politicians that they're lobbying. Yeah, like, 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:33.560 I didn't give them money. I just called a fundraiser 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:37.200 that raised four and a half million dollars at you know, 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:40.040 three thousand dollars a plate. But hey, they they gave 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:43.000 him the money. Right, they don't know me anything. I'm 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:45.319 just doing this because I'm a patriotic citizen of the 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:48.880 United States. And I'll see you Monday, Senator. And I 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:52.520 like to overcharge for salmon. Yeah, isn't that crazy. So 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:55.040 that's the current state, everybody. Let's go back to the beginning, 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.480 because lobbyists have been around basically as long as America 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:01.560 has Yeah, let's take a little break and we'll we'll 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:04.240 get to the tease stuff and start off with a 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:29.240 little bit of history, all right. Uh, there's some misconceptions 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:32.520 about the history of the word itself. Laure says that 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:36.120 it was invented uh in the Willard Hotel in Washington, 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.880 d C. In that lobby when U Ulysses S. Grant 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:43.680 would kick back and have a drink like he so 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:48.120 like to do, uh, and would get disgusted by what 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:52.240 he called those damn lobbyists that we're hanging out there, yeah, 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:55.200 asking him for stuff. Gimme, gimme, gimme. Yeah. And while 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.960 that may have, um, that may have given rise to 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.880 the term popular already wise here, but you can trace 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:04.880 it back to England, uh in the sixteen forties, when 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.200 they talked about the lobby in the House of Commons 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:09.920 where you could go right up to your representatives and 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:13.520 in your cute little wig and say, here's what I 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.000 think you should do, right, and here's some here's some 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:20.080 good old fashioned English pounds in your pocket. And I 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:23.480 mean that's always just gone with it, part and parcel. Yeah, 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:26.960 you know, if not outright bribery, at least favors or 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:30.400 quid pro quo or tip for tad or football tickets, 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:34.600 the jackal and hide Beyonce tickets, all sorts of stuff. Yeah, 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:38.040 first class or not first class? No one flies first class. 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:41.280 Talking about the lear jet, the true first class. Yea, 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:43.960 the private jet. Didn't they do with first class? Analysis 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:48.360 called business class because of class resentment in the United States. Yeah, 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:52.120 and now they've well, it depends on the airline. There's 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.720 all sorts of new rules and special things you can 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:58.200 pay for, all right. So, uh, in the United States, 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:03.120 from the very first session of Congress, there were lobbying 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:08.000 efforts and people treating congress. Uh. I'm gonna say congressmen 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:12.400 for this one, because this was in We're gonna say 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:15.360 congress person for later on. The women were at home 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:19.640 brewing beer in their households, but they were applying congressmen 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:22.880 with treats and dinners. And that was a direct quote 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:27.200 from Pennsylvania Senator William maclay from the very first session 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:30.240 of Congress. He was saying, Yeah, they're lobbyists here. They're 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:34.040 basically trying to bribe people. They're trying to install the 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:38.400 Terrifact of seventeen eighty nine, which established um Congress's ability 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:43.600 to basically extract duties and taxes on goods in the 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:47.720 United States in order to support the government. Let's go 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:49.920 out to dinner instead, And the New York merchants were like, 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.640 you don't do that. Let me get you hammered three 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:55.960 ways from Sunday. What are you doing later? Yeah, I'll 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:57.680 tell you what you're doing. You're gonna finish. It can't 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:02.040 go wrong in one sitting. Uh uh. Then apparently the 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:04.520 Bank of the United States was one of the first 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:10.600 big corrupt organizations as far as literally having politicians in 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:14.240 their pocket paying the money. Yeah. Like, um, the United 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:18.000 States used to have things like like an actual centralized bank. 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.120 And Andrew Jackson came along. It's like, this thing is 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.840 just way too corrupt. We need to get rid of 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:26.280 it and put me on your money. Yeah, but the 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:29.680 the scandals associated with it where things like, um, the 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:34.440 National Bank had on its board as board members who 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:38.640 are being paid by the bank, sitting congressman who were 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:43.000 writing legislation in favor of the bank. Yeah, this quote 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:48.560 is the best. Massachusetts Senator Daniel Webster sent a letter 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.280 to the Bank of the United States that said this, 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:55.320 among other things, since I arrived here, I have had 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:58.920 an application to be concerned professionally against the bank, which 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.600 I've declined. Of course, though I believe my retainer has 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:05.199 not been renewed or refreshed as usual. Uh, if it 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:08.200 be wished that my relation to the bank should be continued, 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:11.760 it may be well to send me the usual retainer. 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:15.520 In other words, I've noticed that you're not paying me. Now. 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:18.600 People are telling me to write legislation against you. I'm 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:21.160 turning them down for now. You may want to send 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:24.040 that money again if you would like this, Love Daniel, 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:27.320 you know, like he flat out said, the bribes have 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.399 sort of dried up. I've noticed, So why don't you 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:37.000 start sending those again? Unbelievable history. So you talked about 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:39.600 the Gilded Age, post Civil Wars, all the close of 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:43.800 the nineteenth century. We like to think that America's railroads 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:47.639 were built on grit and determination, but in fact it 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:52.080 was rife with insider deals and uh scandal, right, what 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:54.800 was it called the credit mobile? Your scandal? Yeah? I 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:58.960 looked into this a little bit. It's mind boggling, basically, 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:03.720 um union's mind. How overt it was. Yeah, but but 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:06.560 even just like it was not just crooked in one way, 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:09.159 it was crooked in a number of ways that formed 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:12.239 one big, huge crooked thing that Congress was involved in. 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:17.320 The Union Pacific Railroad started a company that served as 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:23.000 the soul agent of building and managing the Union Pacific Railroad. 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:27.360 Okay um. And then they issued stock in this stuff, 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:34.440 and they used Credit Mobile, Mobilier and um Union Pacific 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:41.640 itself to basically over charge and overpay one another so 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:44.399 that the value of the stock went through the roof. Okay. 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:47.399 So it's a stock massaging scheme to begin with. It 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:50.720 like an insider deal with yourself, right to raise the 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:54.560 value artificially of your stock. Right. And then they took 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:58.439 these these shares in this company and started handing them 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:01.040 out to Congress at a disc count in price. That's 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:02.800 all congressated to do was go sell them on the 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:07.040 market for their face value, which was again artificially inflated. 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:09.280 And they made a bunch of cash. And they were 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:13.200 taking these as bribes for giving like um land grants 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:15.920 or breaking treaties with Native Americans so that the Union 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:20.400 Pacific Railroad could build their railroad across the Western States. Yeah, 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.119 and this was they did this because, believe it or not, 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:26.399 at the time, there wasn't a lot of private investors 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:29.520 ponying up money for this railroad because it was sort 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:31.879 of a new thing and it was Yeah, they didn't know. 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:34.399 Although it was a great idea, they didn't know. Like 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:36.760 all investors, what they care about is getting their money 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:39.520 back in quick fashion, and they just didn't know if 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:41.920 that was going to be possible. And I mean, there's 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:44.320 definitely something to be said for the federal government to 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:46.240 step in and be like, look, we think that this 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:49.080 is really going to help things out. We really want 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:51.840 to fund it. But does it have to be totally 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:55.760 fraught with corruption while that happens? You know, no is 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:58.720 the answer. Not yet. Uh. And then there was the 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:02.840 famous guilded age lobby is Sam Ward, who um he 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:06.640 basically invented the social lobby. So while he wouldn't we'll 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:09.800 get into direct lobby versus social lobby, but social lobby 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:13.080 is basically in sam Ward's case, he was a great chef, 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:14.920 and he was like, I'm gonna throw these great parties. 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.800 I'm gonna have great food and fine wine. I'm gonna 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:23.680 invite uh, special interest groups and corporation heads and politicians 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:25.480 and get him in the same room. But we're not 0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:27.679 going to talk about that stuff directly. We're just all 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:30.280 gonna get hammered together and have a great time, become friends. 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:33.040 That was that was his job. Friends do things for 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:35.600 one another. Right. Yeah, well, I don't think we ever 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:37.800 even said what K Street was. By the way, K 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:41.719 Street is literally K the letter K Street. We're all 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:44.840 just about every lobby in the country has an office. Yeah, 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:48.520 so that explains that if people are other going, yeah, 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:51.399 you're right, but it's like seeing um Madison Avenue when 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:55.120 you refer to advertising or Wall Street. Yeah. Um. So 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:58.239 lobbying just kind of after the guilded Aga, America was 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.440 sick to death of lobbying and lobbyists and didn't want 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:04.080 to have anything to do with it. Um. So lobbying went. 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:06.960 Didn't go away, but it fell to the wayside a 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:09.320 little bit. It was still a thing um throughout the 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:12.760 twentieth century, it just kind of waxed and waned. In 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:16.399 the mid forties, I believe Congress was like, we actually 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:18.280 kind of need these guys, so let's set up some 0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:21.880 rules for dealing with them. Um Because at this time, 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:24.919 already what John Kennedy was writing about was true. You 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:28.439 had a brain drain going on from Capitol Hill to 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:33.000 k Street, where people would go and um, become an 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:38.240 aid to a senator or a congress person and make contacts, 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:41.960 get a little bit of experience, and then after a 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:44.480 couple of years they would move on over to Kay 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:48.520 Street to a lobbying firm, make anywhere between five to 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:53.080 ten times what they were as the congressional aid. And um, 0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:57.239 Kay Street was sucking the talent away from Congress. And 0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:00.879 so these congress people in the forties said, hey, um, 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:03.600 we need to work with these people because we need them, 0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:07.080 so let's make up some rules. Even still, lobbying was 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:09.639 nothing like you would recognize it today. It wasn't until 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:14.520 the seventies and eighties when business did an about face 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:16.480 of dealing with the government. Up to that point, it 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:20.200 was like, government, stay to stay out of our business. 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:22.240 That's the lobbying we want to do, is to keep 0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:24.960 you off of our backs, keep you from regulating our stuff, 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:28.000 to stay out of our business. And then at some point, 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:30.880 and I'm not exactly sure who figured this out, but 0:22:31.600 --> 0:22:34.800 some lobbyists convinced corporations like, hey, guys, you're doing this 0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:38.879 all wrong. You guys could get mind boggling amounts of 0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:42.439 money from the government in the form of subsidies, are 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:46.200 great contracts or sweetheart deals just by using our services 0:22:46.760 --> 0:22:51.679 and lobbying exploded, and we'll just take comparatively a tiny 0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:54.400 bit of that. Even though it's a ton of money 0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:58.280 for individual lobbyists, it's nothing to these corporations, right exactly. 0:22:58.400 --> 0:23:00.720 And I yeah, like the day Ruse gave a really 0:23:00.760 --> 0:23:04.679 great example of um Northrop Gumman Grumman in uh in 0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:07.200 two thousand and twelve or something like that, I believe 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:10.960 thunder Mifflin. Yeah, they spent a hundred and seventy six 0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:16.879 million dollars from from in fourteen years from twelve, which 0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:20.000 that's nothing to them because in that time, in two 0:23:20.040 --> 0:23:23.919 thousand twelve itself, Northrop Grumman got a hundred and seventy 0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:26.440 six million dollar or oh no, a hundred and eighty 0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:29.679 nine million dollar contract for a cyber security system for 0:23:29.720 --> 0:23:32.440 the d O D so that that one contract paid 0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:35.479 for fourteen years of lobbying expenses, right yeah, and then 0:23:35.480 --> 0:23:39.119 they got a one point seven billion dollar contract to 0:23:39.240 --> 0:23:44.480 build five drones. And that's just Northrop Grumman. Like, you 0:23:44.480 --> 0:23:46.760 can't really pick on them. The reason why we called 0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:51.080